#emc | Logs for 2006-03-20

[00:07:55] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): new simulated encoder HAL component. Doesn't work yet, committed so cradek can take a look. (disabled in makefile.inc.in.)
[00:08:12] <K4ts> night
[00:43:29] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/hal/components/sim_encoder.c: better...? fix some null pointers
[00:47:23] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/hal/components/sim_encoder.c: fix null derefs
[00:54:23] <jmkasunich> you did something funky with that last commit
[01:26:42] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile.inc.in hal/components/sim_encoder.c): final (I hope) version of sim_encoder, fixed an off-by-1 error, removed some debugging code, misc cleanup.
[01:29:01] <cradek> HAL:9: ERROR: pin 'encoder.0.phase-Z' not found
[01:29:17] <jmkasunich> halcmd show, see what the pin is called
[01:29:41] <cradek> ah it's phase-I
[01:29:45] <cradek> (looked at the source)
[01:29:53] <jmkasunich> so did I ;-)
[01:29:56] <cradek> we should make them the same?
[01:29:59] <jmkasunich> wonder if I should change that?
[01:30:11] <jmkasunich> Z is a pretty universal convention I think
[01:30:12] <cradek> the new one, not the existing one, right?
[01:30:15] <cradek> hmm
[01:30:22] <cradek> whichever you think then
[01:30:23] <jmkasunich> wonder what us digital uses
[01:30:34] <SWPadnos> err - those are all pointing at the same thing (phaseA), in the commit message
[01:30:39] <cradek> I think I saw Z
[01:30:46] <cradek> SWPadnos: fixed already
[01:30:47] <jmkasunich> SWP: already fixed
[01:30:55] <SWPadnos> oh, I must be missing that message ;)
[01:31:07] <jmkasunich> he got sneaky and canceled the original change
[01:31:11] <SWPadnos> wuss
[01:31:17] <cradek> :-P
[01:32:13] <cradek> argh I hate all these halcmd dialogs popping up in the center of the screen
[01:32:16] <cradek> halscope
[01:32:25] <cradek> it's half on each monitor
[01:32:28] <jmkasunich> the sampling one?
[01:32:36] <cradek> that one, the channel source too
[01:32:37] <jmkasunich> or the channel select one?
[01:32:43] <cradek> both
[01:32:48] <jmkasunich> what can I say, I'm not a GUI guy
[01:33:03] <jmkasunich> gotta pop up somewhere
[01:33:18] <cradek> then let the window manager handle it - it's smarter
[01:33:40] <cradek> bitch bitch bitch
[01:33:41] <cradek> sorry
[01:33:49] <jmkasunich> s'ok ;-)
[01:34:04] <jmkasunich> criticism welcome, patches even more welcome
[01:34:28] <jmkasunich> us digital seems to use A, B, I
[01:34:41] <SWPadnos> BEI uses A/B/Z
[01:34:49] <jmkasunich> you can never win
[01:34:53] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:35:00] <jmkasunich> but we should be internally consistent
[01:35:18] <jmkasunich> I think I like Z better than I, I can be confused with 1 depending on the font
[01:36:22] <cradek> halcmd: newsig index-enable bit
[01:36:22] <cradek> halcmd: linksp index-enable => encoder.0.index-enable
[01:36:22] <cradek> halcmd: sets index-enable 1
[01:36:22] <cradek> HAL:9: ERROR: signal 'index-enable' already has writer(s)
[01:36:31] <cradek> how do these RW pins work?
[01:36:32] <jmkasunich> well well well
[01:36:44] <jmkasunich> not very good apparently
[01:37:23] <jmkasunich> actually thats pribably a halcmd bug
[01:37:40] <jmkasunich> it won't let you sets a signal connected to a pin that is an output from a component
[01:37:47] <jmkasunich> because you'd be fighting the component
[01:38:08] <jmkasunich> RW is kinda like a tri-state, so it should probably allow sets
[01:38:39] <cradek> gtk_window_set_position(GTK_WINDOW(dialog.window), GTK_WIN_POS_CENTER);
[01:38:48] <jmkasunich> looks like none of the existing configs use the index pulse, I'm gonna change the encoder to use Z instead of I
[01:38:49] <cradek> ok I blame gtk for this, not you
[01:39:03] <cradek> gtk should know how to handle xinerama (dual monitors)
[01:39:10] <cradek> ok
[01:39:24] <jmkasunich> oh, its putting it right on the line between the two screens?
[01:39:28] <cradek> yes
[01:39:34] <jmkasunich> lol, that sucks
[01:39:50] <cradek> yeah and it does it every f-ing time
[01:40:01] <SWPadnos> do you suppose that gtk has been updated with gnome 2.14?
[01:40:04] <cradek> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gtk-devel-list/2001-June/msg00254.html
[01:40:18] <cradek> argh, someone submitted a patch 5 years ago
[01:40:19] <jmkasunich> which gtk do you have installed, 1.2 or 2.x?
[01:40:27] <fenn> is this normal? the accel spike at the beginning/end of moves -> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/halscope-sim.png
[01:40:49] <cradek> fenn: yeah that's the whole point
[01:41:05] <fenn> heh ok :)
[01:41:13] <cradek> :-) sorry didn't mean to sound snippy
[01:41:15] <jmkasunich> as long as the spikes don't exceed the limits you have configured
[01:41:32] <cradek> guessing your acc limit is 20
[01:41:34] <jmkasunich> accel, cruise, decel is the basic trapezoidal move
[01:43:14] <cradek> jmkasunich: GTK_CFLAGS='-I/usr/include/gtk-1.2 -I/usr/include/glib-1.2 -I/usr/lib/glib/include -I/usr/X11R6/include'
[01:43:19] <cradek> it's using 1.2
[01:43:46] <jmkasunich> check your packages, you might want to install gtk-dev-2.something
[01:43:54] <jmkasunich> I think configure will use that if it exists
[01:44:06] <jmkasunich> dunno which it prefers if both are found
[01:44:17] <jmkasunich> worst case you could remove the 1.2
[01:45:09] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/hal/components/encoder.c: Changed HAL encoder counter to use Z instead of I for the index input. There doesn't seem to be a consistent standard for this, but I like Z better.
[01:45:11] <cradek> I already have both
[01:45:14] <cradek> must prefer 1.2
[01:45:27] <cradek> I think 1.2 is the deb requirement because I had a problem building with 2.0
[01:45:30] <jmkasunich> that me, using the old stuff
[01:45:33] <cradek> so I'll just leave it...
[01:45:53] <jmkasunich> hopefully it will build with either one
[01:46:15] <jmkasunich> the 2.0 api is much more bloated imo
[01:46:15] <cradek> ahhhhh I just removed that one line
[01:46:27] <jmkasunich> is it doing the right thing now?
[01:46:30] <cradek> now it pops up near my pointer because my window manager is smart
[01:46:48] <jmkasunich> probably should commit that
[01:46:55] <jmkasunich> and a similar change to halmeter
[01:46:58] <cradek> sure you don't mind?
[01:47:01] <jmkasunich> nope
[01:47:17] <jmkasunich> remember, newbie GUI guy
[01:47:31] <cradek> gtk bug, not your fault
[01:47:51] <jmkasunich> telling it to use center instead of trusting the window manager is my fault
[01:48:15] <cradek> true I guess
[01:48:17] <jmkasunich> now that I think about it, I recall being confused when I have multiple halmeters, because every one's selection dialog is in the same place
[01:48:21] <CIA-8> 03fenn * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_files.c scope_usr.h): added some formatting options for logs and cleaned up logging
[01:49:07] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_vert.c: gui tweak - don't center the window all the time
[01:49:40] <jmkasunich> gonna fix halmeter too or should I do that one?
[01:50:02] <cradek> chris@buster2:~/emc2.head/src/hal/utils$ grep CENTER *|wc -l
[01:50:02] <cradek> 8
[01:50:06] <cradek> haha
[01:50:40] <cradek> I'll do 'em
[01:51:06] <jmkasunich> some of those might be text justification inside a window, not window location on a screen
[01:52:00] <jmkasunich> made the dialog bigger too?
[01:52:07] <jmkasunich> was 300, now 400
[01:52:08] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (meter.c miscgtk.c scope_horiz.c scope_trig.c scope_vert.c): remove all window centering stuff
[01:52:14] <cradek> yeah the first thing I always do is make it bigger
[01:52:34] <cradek> and as long as it's <480 it should be ok for everyone?
[01:52:34] <jmkasunich> I hate the pixel based stuff, never makes everybody happy
[01:52:39] <cradek> yeah
[01:53:15] <cradek> now back to index stuff: what do I do?
[01:53:19] <SWPadnos> are the text sizes specified in points or pixels?
[01:53:40] <jmkasunich> swp: thats a window size, its pixels
[01:53:56] <SWPadnos> right, but people with higher DPI monotirs need more pixels for their text
[01:54:01] <jmkasunich> cradek: uh, umm, I dunno.... ;-)
[01:54:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:54:47] <jmkasunich> lemme put a little hal file together, a starting point
[01:54:49] <cradek> ah halscope is much better
[01:55:02] <cradek> want mine? I have sim_encoder -> encoder working
[01:55:11] <jmkasunich> sure, that a good start
[01:55:25] <jmkasunich> mail it (actually, try dcc)
[01:55:45] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/max.tar.gz
[01:56:27] <cradek> that's the whole config
[01:58:33] <jmkasunich> tempting to commit it to allow collaboration
[01:58:47] <jmkasunich> maybe with a prefix like test-max or something
[01:59:51] <cradek> I'm not opposed to that
[02:00:34] <jmkasunich> you wanna do that or should I?
[02:00:40] <cradek> I'm working on it
[02:00:43] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:01:22] <jmkasunich> do configs need to be explicitly named in the makefile to be installed?
[02:01:32] <jmkasunich> if so, maybe this one should _not_ be named
[02:01:38] <cradek> I'd have to check
[02:01:40] <jmkasunich> kinda make it developer only
[02:01:44] <cradek> I think they're all installed
[02:01:50] <cradek> but I could skip putting it in the deb.
[02:02:05] <cradek> but why not distribute it? It's at least as functional as some of the others.
[02:02:15] <jmkasunich> true
[02:02:48] <jmkasunich> they are explicitly names
[02:03:03] <jmkasunich> COPY_CONFIGS := blah blah in the main Makefile
[02:03:10] <jmkasunich> s/names/named
[02:03:28] <jmkasunich> thats done in part to prevent the common/ dir from getting copied
[02:03:51] <cradek> jepler must have revamped that - it used to copy them all.
[02:06:20] <skunkworks> I thought I remember something like "theta" used as the index pulse. Can't find it now.
[02:07:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/max/ (README max.hal max.ini max.tbl max.var): max configuration for collaboration on threading
[02:08:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/max/max.hal: compatibility change
[02:12:26] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna take the liberty of re-ordering the hal file
[02:12:26] <jmkasunich> all loadrts first, then all addfs, then connections
[02:12:26] <jmkasunich> makes it easier to read
[02:12:26] <jmkasunich> and lets you eliminate the annoying numbers after the addfs
[02:12:26] <cradek> sure please do
[02:12:26] <cradek> I don't know what I'm doing in there as you can see
[02:13:13] <SWPadnos> oops
[02:14:45] <cradek> bonk
[02:14:53] <cradek> they'll be back
[02:15:07] <SWPadnos> they are, afaics
[02:15:19] <cradek> heh, maybe it was me that left
[02:15:20] <SWPadnos> except jymmmmmmmmm
[02:15:36] <SWPadnos> you stayed in the userlist from my point of view
[02:17:23] <jmkasunich> SWP: how goes those halcmd changes (generic substitution from the ini file)?
[02:17:28] <jmkasunich> nag, nag
[02:17:35] <SWPadnos> I'm doing it now.
[02:17:39] <jmkasunich> cool
[02:17:43] <SWPadnos> lost a bit of time due to main computer crash :(
[02:17:48] <jmkasunich> ouch
[02:17:54] <SWPadnos> yeah. twice
[02:18:34] <jmkasunich> disk crash or something?
[02:18:36] <SWPadnos> (plus some extra fun time due to my wife's birthday on Friday ;) )
[02:18:39] <SWPadnos> could be
[02:18:39] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/ (src/Makefile configs/max/max.ini configs/max/max.var): fix up new max config
[02:19:08] <SWPadnos> was trying to burn a CD, and the machine froze once (no mouse even), and rebooted the second time
[02:19:21] <SWPadnos> I'm on the machine now, so it's partly functional, at least
[02:19:33] <SWPadnos> (Windows 2000, unfortunately)
[02:19:56] <jmkasunich> oh, no wonder it crashed ;-)
[02:19:59] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:20:29] <SWPadnos> if only I hadn't made changes in a remote kate (or if I had actually saved changes), it wouldn't have been a problem
[02:25:01] <cradek> huh, I thought if unhomed, the soft limits were ignored - but it seems that's only for jogging
[02:25:26] <jmkasunich> if unhomed you gots no business running MDI or AUTO
[02:30:31] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: .
[02:30:54] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/nc_files/spiral.ngc: a nice acceleration test
[02:33:54] <skunkworks> night everyone - good luck/ :excited:
[02:34:06] <SWPadnos> see you later
[02:34:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/nc_files/spiral.ngc: clean up sloppiness
[02:39:00] <jmkasunich> cradek, do you still need/want the jerk signal?
[02:39:14] <cradek> jmkasunich: no
[02:43:54] <fenn> so.. you are going to do threading with stuff held in the chuck of your mill?
[02:44:03] <cradek> yes
[02:44:03] <jmkasunich> thats the plan
[02:44:13] <cradek> I'll tilt my head sideways so I don't get confused
[02:44:15] <jmkasunich> toolbig in the milling vise
[02:44:20] <jmkasunich> toolbit
[02:44:25] <fenn> i've done that on a drill press before :)
[02:44:32] <jmkasunich> threading?
[02:44:38] <fenn> well, plain turning
[02:44:39] <giacus> nigth
[02:44:43] <jmkasunich> lathing yeah, me too
[02:44:48] <jmkasunich> threading would be quite a trick
[02:45:00] <cradek> I've done it with a die
[02:45:09] <cradek> made some oddball all-thread
[02:46:15] <fenn> * fenn looks over at the sad, sad, non-cnc lathe
[02:46:30] <fenn> poor thing's just begging to be upgraded
[02:46:33] <cradek> fenn: are you coming to fest?
[02:46:37] <fenn> yeah
[02:46:51] <fenn> should i bring my homemade lathe?
[02:47:13] <cradek> heck, bring everything that fits
[02:47:21] <fenn> hmm you didnt see my car last time
[02:47:31] <fenn> i was bottoming out on the way back
[02:47:34] <cradek> actually jmk showed me a photo
[02:47:39] <cradek> haha
[02:47:49] <cradek> ok maybe that's a little too much
[02:48:19] <cradek> if it wouldn't cost me $1000 for gas I'd take the bronco... seems like I'm going to have a lot of stuff.
[02:50:07] <fenn> bring your soldering iron
[02:50:23] <cradek> yep
[02:50:36] <fenn> i've never used a good soldering iron and wanna see what the big deal is
[02:50:44] <cradek> and mill and computer and monitor and scope?
[02:50:47] <SWPadnos> how many scope channels do you think will be needed?
[02:50:57] <cradek> you're assuming I have a good one?
[02:50:58] <jmkasunich> I have 2 channel digital
[02:51:04] <SWPadnos> I was thinking of bringing at least one MSO, plus a soldering station
[02:51:11] <fenn> well anyone would have a better soldering iron than me
[02:51:17] <cradek> I have 2 channel analog storage
[02:51:37] <cradek> we could bring another 2 channel analog non-storage (gave it to jepler a while back)
[02:51:47] <SWPadnos> I've got a 2 analog + 16 digital, 100 MHz plus a 4 analog + 16 digital 1GHz
[02:52:19] <SWPadnos> the 100 MHz should be ok, and I wouldn't be as sad if it got splattered with grease ;)
[02:52:32] <mshaver> you all talking about the cnc workshop?
[02:52:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[02:52:38] <SWPadnos> I think so
[02:53:03] <mshaver> you guys going all week, or just fri-sat-sun
[02:53:12] <SWPadnos> damfino
[02:53:21] <jmkasunich> all week, or as much of it as I can manage
[02:53:29] <fenn> jmk's a real trooper
[02:53:32] <SWPadnos> I'm not positive that I'll make it this year, but if I do it should be for the week
[02:53:33] <jmkasunich> haven't set specific dates or made room reservations yet
[02:53:44] <SWPadnos> I'm not positive that I'll make it this year, but if I do it should be for the week
[02:53:49] <SWPadnos> gah - wrong window ;)
[02:54:09] <jmkasunich> fenn: the fest is probably the most fun I'll have all year, of course I'll be there as long as possible
[02:54:17] <mshaver> steve_s made us some reservations, but i'm not sure for how long
[02:54:19] <fenn> heh you need to get out more :)
[02:54:36] <mshaver> everybody needs to get out more...
[02:54:49] <SWPadnos> not with my wife I don't
[02:54:54] <fenn> if i only had a jet powered hang glider..
[02:55:30] <fenn> mshaver: were you serious about bringing the hardinge?
[02:55:45] <jmkasunich> I hope not
[02:55:51] <mshaver> about half serious
[02:55:56] <jmkasunich> bring the sherline with the spindle encoder
[02:56:00] <fenn> doesn't roland have any cnc lathes?
[02:56:01] <mshaver> about half not...
[02:56:17] <cradek> yeah if you have a lathe with spindle encoder, by all means bring it
[02:56:25] <mshaver> i think the sherline is more approp
[02:56:32] <jmkasunich> I don't wnat to be doing a retrofit there, I want to focus on threading, not hardware
[02:56:37] <mshaver> it does
[02:56:45] <mshaver> what jmk said!
[02:56:48] <fenn> right
[02:56:58] <cradek> mshaver: does it already work?
[02:57:07] <mshaver> i think that was a problem last year, too much wiring, not enough coding
[02:57:19] <SWPadnos> maybe we could borrow the one they had at NIST
[02:57:25] <SWPadnos> (the big one ;) )
[02:57:30] <mshaver> cradek: yep, it's got steppers, drives, spindle encoder, etc
[02:57:37] <fenn> the one with sensors all over it?
[02:57:53] <SWPadnos> yep - the dynamometer one
[02:57:54] <cradek> mshaver: wow! why aren't you working on threading then?
[02:58:26] <mshaver> cradek: it's called "making a living" ;)
[02:58:35] <cradek> bah, we all do that :-P
[02:58:39] <cradek> (more or less)
[02:58:48] <SWPadnos> mshaver, wuss
[02:58:53] <jmkasunich> speaking of which, I should be machining parts right now
[02:59:12] <cradek> jmkasunich: check in what you've done please
[02:59:14] <mshaver> that's the problem, it got to be more "less" than "more"
[02:59:18] <jmkasunich> almost done
[02:59:28] <SWPadnos> yeah, less less and more more is better
[02:59:37] <fenn> i disagree
[02:59:48] <SWPadnos> you're unemployed ;)
[02:59:53] <fenn> so are you
[03:00:02] <SWPadnos> hardly
[03:00:21] <SWPadnos> I have regular employment, but irregular work ;)
[03:01:08] <mshaver> that's been my whole problem with cnc - since "the big crash of 2001" I haven't had much call for retrofits - i've had to get into other areas of work
[03:01:35] <mshaver> i will say, things have been picking up a lot lately though
[03:01:52] <SWPadnos> it seems that way here as well
[03:02:00] <mshaver> my situation is like SWPs
[03:02:35] <SWPadnos> "always employed, not always paid" :(
[03:03:20] <mshaver> the economy seems to have stopped crashing and some companys are willing to spend a little money - i've had some good work lately doing electronic tech work for a medical equip company
[03:03:38] <SWPadnos> cool stuff.
[03:04:17] <SWPadnos> I think I'm finally going to get to design that digital camera array, plus I've had inquiries from two other customers for new projects in the last week
[03:04:39] <fenn> i thought you had been designing it all this time
[03:04:44] <mshaver> no that cool, but enough money to make it worthwhile ($35/hour for bench work)
[03:04:51] <SWPadnos> I've been doing some work on it, but the customer is weird
[03:05:15] <SWPadnos> he wants to make sure someone else pays for his toye, so he's slow about it
[03:05:17] <SWPadnos> toys
[03:06:06] <mshaver> i've got a couple of design jobs like that - desire for the product, but not enough comittment to cover the devel cost
[03:06:46] <mshaver> i'm just not going to do stuff on speculation anymore (too old, too cynical at this point ;) )
[03:06:53] <SWPadnos> yeah. he's got two customers for the product, but their budgets and needs are vastly different
[03:07:01] <SWPadnos> me either, and I'm not even that old :)
[03:07:30] <SWPadnos> especially for $800k projects - I don't have the cash anyway
[03:07:39] <mshaver> at one time i would, and did, go out on a limb pretty far
[03:07:58] <SWPadnos> that's where I am right now, for the most part
[03:08:06] <SWPadnos> dome all I could without getting paid
[03:08:08] <SWPadnos> donw
[03:08:10] <SWPadnos> done
[03:08:31] <mshaver> ugh, my tolerance is maxed out at about $20,000, and that's on something that interests me...
[03:09:22] <mshaver> anyway, i'm sort of looking forward to seeing the "new" EMC - it seems a lot has been done this past year
[03:09:25] <SWPadnos> oh - I don't have 800k in it, but I'm tired of getting paid too little too late
[03:10:33] <mshaver> well, i'm going to bed, got to get up early and figure out what's going to happen this week ;)
[03:10:42] <SWPadnos> heh - good luck
[03:10:49] <mshaver> i'll need it...
[03:10:59] <SWPadnos> indeed
[03:11:29] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/configs/max/max.hal: work on max.hal, reordered for readability, and added logic to control encoder resetting
[03:11:44] <jmkasunich> cradek: completely untested, have fun ;-)
[03:12:37] <jmkasunich> I think the default values of siggen will have it resetting for 0.5 seconds, then not for 0.5
[03:12:46] <jmkasunich> since its only set for one rev per second, that is dumb
[03:13:05] <jmkasunich> need to setp siggen.0.frequency 0.1 or 0.05 or something
[03:13:40] <cradek> not sure I understand what you did
[03:13:46] <jmkasunich> I'll be machining but checking here between operations etc, so ask if you have any questions
[03:13:52] <jmkasunich> what part?
[03:13:53] <cradek> do I need a different strategy now?
[03:14:16] <cradek> we talked about: to sync, set index enable, wait for it to clear, when it does the count has reset
[03:14:27] <jmkasunich> well right now we're not that far along
[03:14:41] <jmkasunich> the not block will rewrite the signal every pass
[03:14:59] <jmkasunich> so when spindle-sync is false, the encoder will reset on every index
[03:15:10] <jmkasunich> a sawtooth from 0 to 1.0 (I scaled it to read in revs)
[03:15:21] <cradek> ok
[03:15:26] <jmkasunich> when spindle sync is true it won't reset, just ramp up
[03:15:34] <cradek> ok I get it
[03:15:57] <SWPadnos> is there a one-shot component?
[03:16:34] <jmkasunich> don't think so, could probablly make one from your time-delay and an and gate
[03:17:04] <SWPadnos> I was just thinking about the timedelay, but it's "maintained contact"
[03:17:17] <jmkasunich> you want short or long pulse in, fixed length out
[03:17:20] <SWPadnos> and the delay times are params, not pins
[03:17:20] <jmkasunich> edge triggered
[03:17:44] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:18:00] <jmkasunich> integrator + comparator
[03:18:15] <jmkasunich> need a set/reset flipflop
[03:18:23] <SWPadnos> you want a float one-shot?
[03:18:39] <SWPadnos> llike a scope trigger block
[03:18:48] <jmkasunich> I dunno
[03:18:55] <SWPadnos> that's what it sounded like ;)
[03:19:07] <SWPadnos> both would be handy
[03:19:12] <jmkasunich> I don't want anything, you asked about a oneshot ;-)
[03:19:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:19:19] <cradek> haha
[03:19:23] <SWPadnos> for you guys, honest ;)
[03:19:26] <jmkasunich> think something up, make it as generally usefull as possible, and code it
[03:19:42] <SWPadnos> once I'm done with the replacement thing
[03:20:06] <jmkasunich> yeah
[03:20:08] <SWPadnos> any objection to a "logic" component, like blocks for bits
[03:20:20] <jmkasunich> that whole thing needs revisited
[03:20:39] <SWPadnos> I can do just the new functions for now, and the other logic-ish ones can be moved later
[03:20:45] <cradek> jepler wanted logical-or just recently
[03:21:01] <jmkasunich> I've thought about a "math" one for float stuff, sum, mux, scale, integ, ddt, limit, fabs, poly, etc
[03:21:08] <jmkasunich> we already have an OR
[03:21:10] <jmkasunich> 2 input
[03:21:13] <jmkasunich> and AND
[03:21:15] <SWPadnos> demorgan - not both inputs and the output of an and ;)
[03:21:17] <jmkasunich> and NOT
[03:21:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:21:24] <cradek> must not be in the pdf
[03:21:30] <jmkasunich> they're not
[03:21:31] <SWPadnos> it's bolean algebra
[03:21:37] <SWPadnos> beyond the scope of the pdf, I think ;)
[03:21:43] <SWPadnos> boolean, too
[03:21:47] <jmkasunich> adding a block to blocks is easier than updating the pdf
[03:21:52] <cradek> heh
[03:22:06] <cradek> what's the eventual ideal hal documentation? a man page for each module?
[03:22:08] <SWPadnos> I don't want to remove anything from blocks at this point
[03:22:10] <jmkasunich> anyway, we need a module for digital stuff, one for analog/math stuff, and one for misc
[03:22:14] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:22:22] <jmkasunich> just keep tossing stuff in blocks
[03:22:31] <jmkasunich> we can sort it out later
[03:22:31] <SWPadnos> ok, I can do that
[03:22:34] <cradek> I kind of think pdfs suck, but seems like other-people-not-me like to print them
[03:22:44] <jmkasunich> everything has its place
[03:22:53] <cradek> although the block diagrams are good, and impossible to do otherwise
[03:22:54] <jmkasunich> for online use manpages would be better
[03:23:01] <jmkasunich> one per block rather than one per module I think
[03:23:02] <SWPadnos> cat blocks | sort --by_function_class > {logic,math,misc}.c
[03:23:04] <cradek> I think html would be better than pdf. I'd fix stuff in it, for one thing
[03:23:22] <jmkasunich> the original for that doc is lyx, it can output pfg, html, etc, etc
[03:23:26] <cradek> I have nfc how to update a little thing in the pdf
[03:23:37] <SWPadnos> same for lyx ;)
[03:23:51] <jmkasunich> lets not go there tonight
[03:23:55] <cradek> I'll admit it's a nice looking document
[03:24:02] <cradek> jmkasunich: heh, get to work
[03:24:06] <cradek> jmkasunich: thanks for fixing up my halfile
[03:24:35] <jmkasunich> have fun
[03:24:42] <jmkasunich> (I wish I was doing what you are doing)
[03:33:25] <fenn> yay docbook!
[03:52:14] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/max/max.hal:
[03:52:14] <CIA-8> emulated spindle encoder is working, but I think the index pulse is
[03:52:14] <CIA-8> only causing a reset every other revolution. monkeying with
[03:52:14] <CIA-8> siggen.0.frequency gives other wrong (worse) sawtooths.
[03:54:43] <jmkasunich> make siggen.0,frequency very small
[03:54:58] <cradek> it never resets then
[03:55:05] <jmkasunich> like 0.05 ( = 1/20Hz, or 10 seconds ramping, 10 seconds sawtooth)
[03:55:22] <jmkasunich> scope index-enable and see what its doing
[03:55:32] <cradek> oh I did get those long ramps and then some sawtooth
[03:55:38] <cradek> is that what you intended?
[03:57:45] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:57:55] <jmkasunich> sawtooth is what it will do when your not threading
[03:57:59] <jmkasunich> ramp is a threading pass
[03:59:59] <cradek> ok
[04:00:08] <cradek> I still don't understand how to do that from the motion controller
[04:00:20] <cradek> will it have to do this index reset all the time?
[04:00:27] <cradek> I mean, when not threading
[04:00:46] <jmkasunich> yeah, but its automaitc
[04:01:01] <cradek> how?
[04:01:19] <jmkasunich> as long as spindle-sync is false, it happens
[04:02:50] <cradek> I can't sets spindle-sync, is that just a halcmd bug?
[04:03:01] <cradek> I'll be able to do that from C?
[04:03:15] <cradek> I hope I'm not dense
[04:04:23] <jmkasunich> you can't sets spindle-sync because its driven by the comparator
[04:04:40] <jmkasunich> you can unlinkp comp.0.out to free it up
[04:04:44] <jmkasunich> then sets it all you want
[04:05:04] <cradek> aha
[04:05:21] <cradek> ok I get it
[04:06:18] <cradek> so this whole siggen and comparator thing is just to demo turning on and off of ramping?
[04:06:26] <cradek> resetting?
[04:08:55] <jmkasunich> yes
[04:09:11] <jmkasunich> normally the TP would be turning it on and off as you start/finish a threading pass
[04:09:20] <cradek> ok
[04:14:37] <jmkasunich> http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.web/RS274NGC_34a.html#999264
[04:14:42] <jmkasunich> section
[04:14:53] <jmkasunich> thats the only thing kramer gives us to work with
[04:14:59] <jmkasunich> pretty vauge
[04:15:03] <jmkasunich> vague even
[04:15:36] <cradek> no arguments, just a name
[04:15:45] <cradek> that's ok, I didn't expect even that much
[04:21:25] <jmkasunich> paul added g33 to the interp
[04:21:35] <jmkasunich> it takes an arg but I don't recall what
[04:21:38] <cradek> I remember that
[04:21:51] <jmkasunich> I suspect that it invokes the canon in that section
[04:21:51] <cradek> I don't think it does anything but not error
[04:21:59] <jmkasunich> not yet
[04:22:42] <cradek> I'm going to not worry about interp quite yet, trying to figure out how to get to these pins
[04:22:52] <jmkasunich> which pins?
[04:22:57] <cradek> looks like I need to add them to emcmot_hal_data
[04:23:17] <jmkasunich> yeah, we will be adding one or more new hal pins to the motion controller
[04:23:20] <jmkasunich> thats easy tho
[04:23:21] <cradek> the spindle-sync bit and that float
[04:23:30] <jmkasunich> the hard part is deciding what to do with them
[04:23:42] <jmkasunich> don't you worry about adding the pins, I'll do that ;-)
[04:24:16] <cradek> ok... I was going to start tonight
[04:24:53] <fenn> this gtk stuff would be a lot easier to understand if it were indented
[04:25:33] <fenn> i'm gonna stick a button next to the channel select button
[04:25:41] <fenn> it doesnt really fit, but oh well
[04:59:59] <CIA-8> 03fenn * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (scope_files.c scope_usr.h scope_vert.c): begin work on gui logging preferences
[06:28:22] <jmkasunich> time for sleep
[08:14:18] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_vert.c: Fix compile error on BDI 4.3. Straight C doesn't allow variable declarations mixed in the code.
[08:31:45] <anonimasu> morning
[08:38:06] <Jymm> howdy
[08:38:23] <anonimasu> what's up?
[08:38:36] <Jymm> Me, unfortunantly
[08:38:39] <anonimasu> hm ok
[08:38:43] <anonimasu> what time is it there?
[08:38:47] <anonimasu> it's 09:38 here
[08:38:53] <Jymm> feeding the baby birdy every hour
[08:38:57] <Jymm> 0039
[08:39:00] <anonimasu> ouch
[08:39:20] <anonimasu> I'm waiting for stuff to ship :/
[08:40:01] <Jymm> to you or from you?
[08:40:08] <anonimasu> to me
[08:40:15] <anonimasu> from switzerland
[08:40:59] <Jymm> new toys?
[08:41:04] <Jymm> brb coffee
[08:42:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:42:38] <anonimasu> plc, with touchscreen and stuff
[08:42:55] <anonimasu> ;)
[08:46:41] <anonimasu> fun stuff :)
[08:49:24] <Jymm> plc?
[08:49:44] <Jymm> * Jymm is confused.... plc is a chip isn;t it?
[08:50:31] <anonimasu> nope
[08:50:39] <anonimasu> it's a logic controller..
[08:51:00] <anonimasu> outputs/inputs/stuff
[08:51:04] <anonimasu> properly protecetd..
[08:51:09] <Jymm> ah, ok.
[08:51:13] <alex_joni> morning
[08:51:15] <anonimasu> for running industrial stuff..
[08:51:18] <anonimasu> hey alex
[08:51:27] <alex_joni> plc stuff again? :D
[08:51:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:51:34] <anonimasu> alex_joni: got a cool thing shipping
[08:52:08] <alex_joni> nice
[08:52:40] <anonimasu> gonna finish the spindle tonight too
[08:52:45] <anonimasu> so I can start making servomounts :)
[08:53:14] <anonimasu> need to machine 0,1 due to tool wear away
[08:53:21] <anonimasu> for the adapter :)
[08:53:33] <anonimasu> how's stuff with you+
[08:55:00] <alex_joni> lots of work piling up :)
[08:58:46] <alex_joni> errr.. piled up
[08:58:51] <alex_joni> I was away last week ;)
[09:15:14] <anonimasu> :)
[09:15:15] <anonimasu> less nice
[09:15:25] <anonimasu> I've got the ejector now..
[09:16:14] <anonimasu> this thing really sucks
[09:22:50] <alex_joni> ?
[09:32:38] <Jymm> vacuum? hooker? street sweeper?
[09:33:49] <anonimasu> ejector..
[09:34:02] <anonimasu> vaccum bagging fibreglass ^_^
[09:34:24] <Jymm> ouch
[09:34:46] <anonimasu> ?
[09:39:39] <anonimasu> I got the plc now :9
[09:43:36] <Jymm> Jymm is now known as MrAsshole
[09:47:13] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[09:48:27] <anonimasu> very cool
[09:48:28] <anonimasu> :9
[09:53:54] <Jymmm> so, you gonna take 9 weeks to run your first test on it?
[10:00:36] <anonimasu> 9 weeks?
[10:00:53] <anonimasu> I have 2 weeks..
[10:00:58] <anonimasu> that's pushing it
[10:01:28] <Jymmm> whats opposite of opaque ?
[10:01:38] <Jymmm> translucent?
[10:09:24] <Jymmm> Darn... I'm having a hard time googling for "colored transparent tape" - I keep getting office supplies.
[11:40:07] <anonimasu> hmm
[11:40:08] <anonimasu> sweet plc
[13:18:30] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[13:36:23] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[13:37:45] <jepler> whee, look at all the snow!
[13:37:58] <giacus> :)
[13:38:02] <giacus> morning jepler
[13:38:30] <giacus> how much snow you got ?
[13:38:48] <skunkworks> it is missing us here in WI
[13:39:47] <jepler> giacus: oh only 2-3 inches so far, but it's supposed to snow all day too
[13:40:06] <jepler> but I'm gonna be a wimp and stay off the roads today.
[13:42:24] <jepler> ooh, today's the day I set for releasing AXIS 1.2
[13:42:31] <giacus> hehe
[13:43:15] <giacus> latest night I played around gthumb and gimp to get a nice theme for my website
[13:43:20] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/photo/vacanze/zomaro/index.html
[13:43:49] <giacus> I got thumbnails very similar to that on the homepage
[13:44:05] <giacus> except for the to rounded corners :(
[13:44:31] <jepler> what's the name of the software that creates the album pages?
[13:44:33] <giacus> im learning something about css and html too
[13:44:40] <giacus> gthumb
[13:44:53] <giacus> its a nice software, alex_joni also use it I think
[13:45:11] <giacus> I just hacked the theme and the html source
[13:45:28] <giacus> to automatically get the albums similar to my homepage
[13:46:55] <jepler> I see
[13:47:10] <giacus> lot of time :(
[13:47:29] <giacus> at least I learned more about gimp,css and html ..
[13:47:52] <giacus> that would be a secondary section of main website ..
[13:48:05] <giacus> just for photos
[13:48:20] <jepler> Learning is good.
[13:50:56] <giacus> next website section will be for emc ;P
[13:51:14] <giacus> I have to find a good hosting too ..
[13:51:32] <giacus> for free there are few choices
[13:51:38] <giacus> and not good at all
[13:53:12] <jepler> Must it be free? I think there are many good choices for less than 10USD/month.
[13:53:58] <giacus> no, not free
[13:54:15] <giacus> where is hosted the yours ?
[13:54:25] <giacus> It seems fast enough
[13:55:21] <giacus> 10$/M would be ok
[13:56:12] <giacus> Im actually using altervista.org (one of better IT free hosting)
[13:56:23] <giacus> no banners
[13:56:54] <giacus> the only problem is, if I get no enough click/month on the website it could be auto-deleted :(
[13:57:23] <giacus> and I should use some banner too to get altercents (a virtual money)
[13:57:29] <giacus> a crap.. :/
[13:57:55] <giacus> im also limited to 100 mb
[13:58:19] <skunkworks> I use http://www.hasweb.com/linux_web_hosting.php - $48usd a year. 2gb space and 35gb bandwidth
[13:58:26] <skunkworks> it is a division of hostdime
[13:58:32] <giacus> looking
[13:58:55] <skunkworks> I went for bandwidth. (I mostly use it for hosting small videos and photos)
[13:59:13] <giacus> 35gb bandwidth are a lot
[13:59:17] <giacus> good
[13:59:43] <skunkworks> 2gb is on the small side though - I have not come close to using it up. ;)
[14:00:02] <giacus> any limit on max file size to upload ?
[14:00:58] <skunkworks> I have only used a 100mb so far. Not that I know of but have not tested it.
[14:01:06] <giacus> good
[14:01:35] <giacus> well, could be ok
[14:01:54] <skunkworks> have to look at my tos - if I can find it ;)
[14:01:55] <giacus> Ill think up, after I tested it with tracert.com
[14:03:44] <skunkworks> definatly shop around. this is the best I could find 2 years ago. I am sure there is better. (they have been upping the bandwidth and space over that time.) seems to me I started with 15gb bandwidth
[14:04:05] <giacus> skunkworks: whats your website url ?
[14:04:23] <giacus> so I can test it for speed ..
[14:05:01] <skunkworks> I use it only for hosting - so the main page sucks - it was a homework assingment for a java script class I was taking ;)
[14:05:11] <skunkworks> www.electronicsam.com
[14:05:21] <giacus> K
[14:05:23] <jepler> AXIS 1.2 source release: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01142862593
[14:05:51] <skunkworks> there are a bunch of files you could test here http://www.electronicsam.com/images/
[14:06:04] <skunkworks> Great work jepler
[14:06:59] <jepler> thanks
[14:13:14] <giacus> results for jepler's website is 458.0 Byte/sec from usa, uk, spain, germany, canada, russia
[14:13:31] <giacus> seems very good
[14:14:20] <skunkworks> wow
[14:14:31] <giacus> testing the yours now ..
[14:14:46] <skunkworks> I would hate to see what mine does - don't even know if I have ever tested it.
[14:15:16] <alex_joni> Byte/sec ???
[14:15:25] <giacus> yeah
[14:15:36] <alex_joni> not kByte?
[14:15:44] <giacus> nope
[14:15:55] <giacus> for what I seen :
[14:16:02] <giacus> connect time : 1 sec
[14:16:16] <giacus> transfer time o sec
[14:16:21] <giacus> total 1 sec
[14:16:30] <giacus> size 458 bytes
[14:16:33] <skunkworks> that would be around 4.0+mbs would it not?
[14:16:41] <giacus> speed 458 Byte/sec
[14:16:44] <skunkworks> nope never mind me
[14:16:59] <skunkworks> bable bable bable
[14:17:25] <giacus> skunkworks: the your seems not testable
[14:17:36] <giacus> get no results
[14:17:57] <giacus> http://www.tracert.com/cgi-bin/center/details.pl?month=2006_3&line=9
[14:18:00] <skunkworks> how are you testing it?
[14:18:15] <giacus> http://www.tracert.com/
[14:18:52] <skunkworks> hm - I would just find a large file on my site and try downloading it.
[14:19:11] <giacus> skunkworks: yeah, it could be ok from here
[14:19:29] <giacus> what i'd like to knoe is the speed from other countries too ..
[14:19:34] <skunkworks> ah
[14:19:48] <giacus> to compare results
[14:20:23] <skunkworks> I understand.
[14:59:16] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[15:30:38] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[15:45:55] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/max/max.hal: emulate a slightly-unsteady spindle
[16:12:10] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[16:40:36] <bpmw> Morning Boys!
[16:41:37] <bpmw> cradek, mill worked awsome. used it all day Sunday. Not 1 problem.
[16:58:32] <bpmw> Hi sed_, no one seems to be around at the moment.
[17:01:27] <rayh-away> Good news bpmw
[17:01:43] <SWPadnos> damn, now we all have to come out of hiding ;)
[17:02:13] <bpmw> HI Ray, Hi Steven, Yay!
[17:02:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:03:02] <bpmw> Now I just have to find information on how to implement linear encoder into Emc2.
[17:03:08] <cradek> bpmw: what kind of mill is it?
[17:03:46] <bpmw> cradek, its a RF-45. Theres a picture on frapper.
[17:04:56] <SWPadnos> bpmw, what kind of linear encoder?
[17:05:53] <bpmw> Steven , It A Newall MHG-TT.
[17:06:06] <SWPadnos> err - ok ;)
[17:06:23] <cradek> I can't figure out which photo...
[17:06:23] <SWPadnos> I was thinking more "what kind of electronics does it have/need" ;)
[17:07:33] <SWPadnos> ok, it outputs quadrature, so you can use anything that takes quadrature input (such as USC, Mesa 5I20, STG. etc)
[17:08:17] <bpmw> Steven, I bought a PMDX-122 to interface and a second parport.
[17:08:31] <SWPadnos> that
[17:08:56] <SWPadnos> the PMDX is only a buffer, right (ie, not encoder inputs on it)?
[17:09:36] <SWPadnos> yep - break-out board only. that'll work for slower travel rates
[17:09:49] <SWPadnos> since you'd have to use the software encoder block
[17:10:03] <bpmw> It can be set to either to input or output mode.
[17:10:18] <cradek> the software encoder won't keep up if your resolution is very high
[17:11:20] <bpmw> I bought 10us resoulution, I think that means 0.001 accuracy
[17:11:36] <SWPadnos> 0.01 mm
[17:12:57] <SWPadnos> the software encoder input can count to around 20000 steps/second, so you could do 20mm/sec in software (1.2M/minute)
[17:13:03] <SWPadnos> any faster, and you'll need hardware
[17:13:31] <SWPadnos> (this is all dependent on the speed of your machine as well, it could be faster or slower than that)
[17:14:04] <bpmw> Steve Stallings said I only need to worry about RM and RM_ signals.
[17:14:47] <bpmw> My machine is set at 0.35 max velocity.
[17:15:10] <bpmw> Equates to about 27ipm.
[17:15:42] <SWPadnos> RM and /RM are the index markers, not the high resolution position output
[17:16:01] <SWPadnos> those are one pulse per 5mm
[17:16:45] <bpmw> Yes, So will I wil have to use A,/A and B,/B signals?
[17:19:11] <bpmw> Welcome back.
[17:20:02] <SWPadnos> err - thanks
[17:20:18] <skunkworks> bpmw - steppers?
[17:20:26] <skunkworks> with encoder feedback?
[17:20:27] <bpmw> Yes.
[17:20:31] <skunkworks> cool
[17:20:33] <bpmw> No
[17:20:47] <bpmw> Not yet anyway
[17:20:50] <skunkworks> what are you going to use the encoder for?
[17:21:25] <bpmw> Feed back but just working on implementing :)
[17:21:44] <skunkworks> right
[17:22:24] <SWPadnos> I think the question was more "what do you hope to accomplish with encoder feedback ona stepper system"?
[17:22:39] <SWPadnos> at least, that's my version ;)
[17:23:44] <bpmw> Steven, Its mounted on z-axis. Want more accurate Z.
[17:24:15] <SWPadnos> if you're hoping to account for lost steps, theis may not work out for you
[17:24:28] <bpmw> cradek, back to you... look at Vern Barton.
[17:25:48] <cradek> aha
[17:25:54] <skunkworks> with emc - would you get following errors if ecoders were set up on steppers
[17:25:54] <bpmw> Steven, I don't think lost steps are the issue Its more mechanical. one lash down/ a different lash up.
[17:25:56] <cradek> http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller/photo/479219
[17:26:32] <rayh-away> We had encoder feedback with steppers in emc.
[17:26:43] <skunkworks> and an error between where the stepper is supposed to be and the encoders where saying?
[17:26:49] <rayh-away> It used the Kulaga/Mauch dro card
[17:27:08] <skunkworks> ray - did it slow the stepper down when missed steps were found?
[17:27:12] <rayh-away> Problem was that it treated the motors as servos.
[17:27:16] <skunkworks> ah
[17:27:16] <bpmw> cradek, yep thats the one.
[17:27:22] <rayh-away> Nope it just pushed em harder.
[17:27:29] <cradek> I think you could use encoders -> pid -> freqgen -> steppers if you really want
[17:27:33] <skunkworks> which doesn't really work
[17:27:45] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:27:53] <rayh-away> You need to slow down all the other motors when one begins to fall behind.
[17:28:03] <SWPadnos> that may work - it'll be interesting to see what happens
[17:28:08] <rayh-away> At least that was Tim Goldstein's solution
[17:28:20] <SWPadnos> that's Mariss' solution as well
[17:28:24] <skunkworks> I would think that would be the only solution
[17:28:34] <SWPadnos> kinda the opposite of servos, where you give them more juice if they lag
[17:28:42] <skunkworks> right
[17:28:54] <rayh-away> Exactly.
[17:29:05] <rayh-away> smdromod.o is the executable.
[17:29:30] <rayh-away> Had one set up here for a while. Long ago though.
[17:29:43] <bpmw> Ok, So how do I implement this?
[17:29:56] <SWPadnos> how good at C programming are you? ;)
[17:30:13] <bpmw> Never programmed in my life!
[17:30:21] <cradek> like I said before, I think you can do it in hal, but you'll have to tune your pids afterward
[17:30:42] <SWPadnos> hmmm - then I'd say you might not be the ideal candiadte for this position ;)
[17:30:44] <rayh-away> btw I put up a wiki page on halui -- alex's next HAL interface to emc.
[17:30:48] <rayh-away> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Halui
[17:30:48] <SWPadnos> I don't think it's that easy
[17:31:08] <SWPadnos> this is more like the gearing problem than PID
[17:31:26] <cradek> ok what problem are we trying to solve?
[17:31:41] <SWPadnos> if a stepper slows down, it's because it's beiung asked for too much
[17:32:00] <SWPadnos> you have to slow down all motion to a rate that all steppers can handle
[17:32:12] <cradek> bpmw> Steven, I don't think lost steps are the issue Its more mechanical. one lash down/ a different lash up.
[17:32:19] <SWPadnos> ah
[17:32:23] <cradek> SWPadnos: I think that's not what bpmw is asking for
[17:32:40] <SWPadnos> true - sorry. went on the most recent discussion ;)
[17:32:47] <cradek> SWPadnos: I agree that's sometimes a problem, but that's not the problem he wants to solve
[17:32:59] <cradek> np
[17:33:11] <cradek> for this problem do you think a pid loop like I described will help?
[17:33:15] <SWPadnos> I think you'd almost have to pause other motion until X started moving in the correct direction
[17:33:42] <SWPadnos> oops, Z
[17:33:51] <cradek> bpmw: can you fix it by sitting a brick on top of the spindle?
[17:34:11] <cradek> (I'm kind of serious)
[17:34:32] <cradek> I'm having a hard time seeing how this encoder will help fix whatever mechanical problem you have
[17:34:37] <bpmw> No, Even put put quill spring back on machine ,That was some chore.
[17:37:28] <skunkworks> I think for steppers - it would just be a mess. - at least for higher speeds
[17:37:40] <bpmw> Well maybe I'm wrong but I thought the encoder would tell the difference between where machine is commanded to be and where it actually is and give or take steps to compensate.
[17:38:23] <cradek> skunkworks: no worse a chore than we had running steppers with emc1
[17:39:02] <SWPadnos> bpmw, that's the job of PID, but the way it generally does that is to try and increase the speed of the motor
[17:39:18] <SWPadnos> that may be OK, since there should be almost no load at a reversal
[17:40:29] <bpmw> There isn't a PID setting in the ini Im using.
[17:40:29] <skunkworks> Cradek: I mean using encoder feed back to correct while in motion. This worked ok in emc1?
[17:41:18] <skunkworks> I would think the easy way would be - error betwen commanded and encoder = following error and estop.
[17:41:35] <cradek> I agree that might be what you want...
[17:42:39] <bpmw> BRB, have to take care of something in shop.
[17:42:41] <cradek> but I think using pid is worth a try. freqgen generates step pulses based on a velocity input
[17:44:10] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[17:45:00] <skunkworks> but does the freqgen output higher freq when the input slows down or does it out put a lower frequency when the input slows down?
[17:46:15] <cradek> skunkworks: you'd set its constraints to match the motors
[17:46:36] <jepler> freqgen outputs a higher frequency when a higher velocity is commanded.
[17:47:00] <cradek> fwiw, I don't think this is a good IDEA - I just think it's possible
[17:47:16] <cradek> (i.e. running steppers exactly as you would run servos)
[17:47:34] <SWPadnos> you'd need stppers that have a lot of reserve powewr, like servos
[17:47:42] <SWPadnos> which means they'd rarely be behind
[17:48:07] <skunkworks> I am confused then. It would be neet to try. from what I have seen with the steppers I have played with - they lock up stall instantly.
[17:48:10] <cradek> you would just need to run them under their max speed a bit
[17:48:13] <bpmw> I'm back..
[17:48:57] <cradek> I think after lots of work, you'd end up with slightly worse results
[17:49:01] <SWPadnos> it's not speed, it's torque, which decreases with speed
[17:49:13] <cradek> sure, I know
[17:49:28] <SWPadnos> ok :)
[17:49:29] <cradek> you need to run them slow enough that their torque hasn't fallen off yet
[17:49:34] <rayh> You need following error as a pin and use difference blocks.
[17:49:53] <cradek> you'd set freqgen's maxfreq to be the top speed where you have some torque left
[17:50:03] <cradek> then you'd set the axis ini maxvel under that a bit
[17:50:23] <cradek> then you'd tune pid, and it would work just like emc1
[17:50:28] <cradek> (I think)
[17:50:49] <rayh> Sounds like it should.
[17:51:15] <bpmw> This is all sounding very complex.
[17:51:40] <bpmw> I don't have an engineering degree:)
[17:52:31] <cradek> by working just like emc1, I mean "a little worse than stepgen"
[17:55:22] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[18:07:37] <bpmw> So is this doable or did I waste $1200.00 ??
[18:08:24] <SWPadnos> if your motor is capable of giving you the performance you want, then it's doable
[18:08:35] <SWPadnos> it just may not be as simple as you may want ;)
[18:10:32] <bpmw> Ok, X and Y steppers are nema34 1290 oz/in. Z is small nema 34 110 oz/in stats why 2:1 gearing. But keeps up with other ones at same velocity settings.
[18:11:32] <SWPadnos> 110 on Z?
[18:11:53] <bpmw> yes, it was free .
[18:12:03] <SWPadnos> was that even capable of lifting the spindle whithout the clockspring?
[18:12:21] <bpmw> no problem there.
[18:12:46] <skunkworks> wow
[18:14:01] <skunkworks> well - if you do the calculation with the lead screw gain - it is usually quit a bit of gain. :)
[18:14:48] <bpmw> The motor turns 2:1 gear - turns worm - turns rack. very good mechanical advantage.
[18:15:37] <bpmw> but more places for slop. hence trying to add encoder.
[18:16:02] <skunkworks> ah - you have a linear encoder.
[18:16:16] <bpmw> yes
[18:19:03] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/halcmd.c: (log message trimmed)
[18:19:03] <CIA-8> Added full ini and environment var replacement to halcmd.
[18:19:03] <CIA-8> This applies to both command-line and interactive/file input
[18:19:03] <CIA-8> Substitution is performed on the full command line before parsing
[18:19:03] <CIA-8> There are two formats for environment variables:
[18:19:04] <CIA-8> $envvar
[18:19:06] <CIA-8> $(envvar)
[18:21:53] <jepler> anonymous CVS broken today?
[18:22:34] <SWPadnos> probably
[18:22:39] <alex_joni> jepler: it's been broken the last 4-5 days
[18:26:06] <jepler> I've found a way to copy a bdi4 installation to my server's hard drive in a way that I can "chroot" into it and verify that emc2 and axis build
[18:26:10] <jepler> kinda a mini compile farm...
[18:26:28] <jepler> I wanted to base it on anonymous checkouts so I could run it from cron, but there's a problem with that...
[18:26:35] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[18:27:45] <jepler> "As of 2006-03-12 pserver (anonymous) CVS services, along with tarballs and ViewCVS are down for projects that start with the letters e, i, j, o, v, w and x. We hope to resolve this issue in the next 2 days."
[18:27:50] <jepler> *cough*bullshit*cough*
[18:28:26] <steve_stallings> bpmw - It sounds like you are trying to solve a backlash problem. It is always best to try improving the mechanicals first.
[18:28:32] <alex_joni> jepler: use devel access, and st up a private ssh key
[18:28:35] <steve_stallings> When the computer and PID try to solve the backlash, the backlash in inside the PID loop and this causes problems.
[18:29:18] <bpmw> Hi Steve, I have improved Z axis as much as I can.
[18:29:20] <jepler> alex_joni: it's true, I could do that. But I don't like having unencrypted ssh keys.
[18:29:48] <alex_joni> you can have it encrypted I think, but you need to upload it to SF
[18:29:57] <alex_joni> the public one I think
[18:30:27] <jepler> I mean, unencrypted ssh keys stored on my system. I understand that it's OK to give the public key out without compromising the private key.
[18:30:47] <alex_joni> oh, I see..
[18:31:59] <bpmw> Steve, I don't put a lash setting in for that axis because its different depending what direction its going. Thats why I want to add the linear encoder!
[18:32:09] <steve_stallings> bpmw - The classic way to handle a machine with a quill is to clamp a bracket around the lower end of the quill or screw one into the travel trip block hole if one exists. Then drive the quill using a ballscrew moving the clamp.
[18:32:18] <bill2or3> Good morning.
[18:33:37] <bpmw> Steve, That makes sense, but I allready spent $1200.00 for encoder and your PMDX-122
[18:33:41] <steve_stallings> Roland Friestat has been converting mill-drills for quite a while. He had some sort of spring arrangement to try and keep the quill backlash always pushed to one end.
[18:34:41] <steve_stallings> We will be happy to accept the PMDX-122 back for a refund. I didn't realize your planned usage or I would have recommended againt it.
[18:35:04] <steve_stallings> Sorry but I cannot help with the real cost, the Newall stuff.
[18:36:02] <bpmw> No problem, Thanks for the offer but I'd like to try and implement it if someone is willing to help.
[18:37:10] <bpmw> I don't see why it won't work. I just don't know how to do it. I'm real good at following instruction though :)
[18:38:57] <steve_stallings> PID loops run servos. Servos need to see feedback that is a linear response to motor motion. Backlash is non-linear and cause bad things to happen with PID.
[18:39:43] <bpmw> Steve , I'm using Steppers.
[18:40:03] <steve_stallings> But with feedback it is still a "servo" loop.
[18:40:17] <bpmw> Ohh. Sorry.
[18:41:13] <steve_stallings> Typically the servo will "hunt" back and forth across the backlash distance. A dead zone will prevent this but will make the performance less responsive.
[18:42:35] <bpmw> I'm not to concerned about high performance. Don't do any kind of production work only prototyping.
[18:43:35] <bpmw> be back in 5mins.
[18:44:03] <steve_stallings> Well forge ahead. EMC2 should be able to handle the feedback, but I still recommend having a look at Roland's solution to quill worm backlash.
[18:51:19] <bpmw> I willl. do you have a link on how to set it up in Emc2?
[18:52:41] <steve_stallings> Nope, this will be a new custom configuration. It will require some HAL configuration and PID setup. I am not yet one of the experts on this.
[18:53:20] <SWPadnos> well, get going ;)
[18:53:41] <bpmw> Ok. Thanks.. do you know who I should be talking to?
[18:56:57] <steve_stallings> Well let's start with SWPadnos, then Ray Henry, John Kasunich, Alex Joni
[18:57:19] <SWPadnos> no, start with jmk :)
[18:58:00] <steve_stallings> gotta run, its been fun...
[18:58:04] <bpmw> Ok, Thanks I'll e-mail him.
[18:58:06] <SWPadnos> see you later
[18:58:16] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[18:58:23] <bpmw> Thanks Steve!
[18:58:39] <SWPadnos> which Steve? ;)
[18:59:12] <bpmw> Both I guess :)
[18:59:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:00:23] <bpmw> Man It's a good thing my boss is away this week!
[19:01:32] <bpmw> Pretty hard to justify chatting all morning ")
[19:02:37] <bpmw> Anyway, Thanks all for the input. Catch you later!
[19:03:04] <SWPadnos> see you
[19:04:15] <fenn> of course wasting $1200 isn't good for the bottom line either
[19:10:06] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[19:25:12] <Jymmm> Howdy Folks!
[19:29:31] <giacus_afk> hello
[19:29:37] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[19:38:13] <anonimasu> hm
[19:42:30] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[20:52:16] <K4ts> hello
[21:53:07] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (8 files): took out all the #ifndef LATHE's which caused ABC axeses to be nonexistant on lathes
[22:15:56] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[22:15:56] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[22:16:20] <fenn> * fenn is lurking
[22:25:54] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: this cures some of the feedrate conversion problems. some still are there (changing G20/G21)
[22:50:26] <K4ts> nihgt
[22:50:30] <K4ts> night