#emc | Logs for 2006-03-18

[00:00:12] <giacus> shot 10-20 photos and i'll publish up to my web space
[00:01:05] <giacus> anonimasu: how proceed the work ?
[00:01:25] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/sparks.jpg
[00:01:45] <anonimasu> hopefully I'll have a real mill spindle tomorrow
[00:01:46] <giacus> nice
[00:01:52] <anonimasu> so I can use the boring head..
[00:02:12] <anonimasu> going to face and machine some motor mounts once I get it done
[00:02:38] <giacus> nice, nice :)
[00:02:49] <anonimasu> I lack a adapter do drive the spindle..
[00:02:51] <anonimasu> that's about it..
[00:02:56] <anonimasu> err to drive it..
[00:03:04] <anonimasu> I got the mounting/adapter to the mill done
[00:03:46] <anonimasu> I am going insane lacking a cnc mill :)
[00:03:51] <giacus> hehe
[00:04:04] <anonimasu> got so much prototyping to do
[00:04:44] <giacus> can't see any cooler on the photo you pasted
[00:04:50] <giacus> do not need it ?
[00:04:52] <anonimasu> coolant?
[00:04:53] <anonimasu> nah
[00:05:02] <giacus> yeah, coolant .. sorry
[00:05:13] <anonimasu> didnt get very hot ^_^
[00:05:27] <giacus> wath material is ?
[00:05:32] <anonimasu> iron
[00:05:42] <giacus> mild ?
[00:05:54] <anonimasu> no idea..
[00:06:05] <anonimasu> machines nicely :)
[00:06:14] <giacus> good
[00:07:01] <anonimasu> the thing is a jig for welding the spindle adapter togther
[00:07:12] <anonimasu> so I get everything absolutely straight
[00:08:46] <anonimasu> machining the motor mounts will be easy with the boring head
[00:09:20] <giacus> nice
[00:09:39] <anonimasu> if I feel like it I'll wire up the controller tomorrow
[00:09:42] <anonimasu> too
[00:10:53] <anonimasu> I am contemplating how much stuff I need to fit in the box
[00:11:00] <anonimasu> 2 geckos + heatsinks
[00:11:33] <anonimasu> the usc + the gecko interface
[00:11:52] <anonimasu> I'll run the coolant and stuff from a plc..
[00:11:54] <anonimasu> :)
[00:12:06] <giacus> great
[00:12:25] <giacus> I do not use any box for my drivers
[00:12:52] <giacus> latest time I burned 5-6 IC's L298 for a ground issue :(��
[00:13:08] <giacus> now theyre in a wood table
[00:13:09] <giacus> lol
[00:13:18] <anonimasu> :)
[00:13:32] <giacus> ground is dangerous sometime
[00:13:44] <anonimasu> the machine has coolant return.. so I can run flood coolant
[00:13:44] <giacus> wiring should be perfect
[00:13:46] <anonimasu> :)
[00:13:53] <anonimasu> that's why I need a box
[00:13:58] <giacus> all from emc ?
[00:14:06] <anonimasu> what?
[00:14:17] <giacus> the control ?
[00:14:25] <anonimasu> yep
[00:14:40] <giacus> so, theyre servo drivers
[00:14:43] <anonimasu> the plan is to run my plc through the cl interface..
[00:14:48] <giacus> and all in 1 parport
[00:14:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:15:14] <anonimasu> you know what a usc is right?
[00:15:22] <giacus> just a bit
[00:15:31] <giacus> I seen in the website
[00:15:32] <anonimasu> :)
[00:15:37] <anonimasu> pulse generator
[00:15:38] <giacus> seems nice
[00:15:42] <giacus> yeah
[00:15:47] <giacus> I know what it do
[00:16:02] <anonimasu> works very nicely
[00:16:12] <anonimasu> but with the gecko board you get feedback to emc :)
[00:16:20] <anonimasu> real closed loop
[00:17:21] <giacus> If I remember well the usc also allow to manually move an axis and restart code without lost position
[00:17:22] <anonimasu> but I dont know if I should wire it up..
[00:17:27] <giacus> im not sure
[00:17:27] <anonimasu> yep
[00:17:32] <anonimasu> if you have feedback..
[00:17:37] <giacus> nice
[00:19:27] <anonimasu> but I am unsure if I should wire up the feedback..
[00:19:34] <anonimasu> I need to make parts ;)
[00:28:24] <giacus> K4ts: here's your dog http://giacus.altervista.org/kats.jpg
[00:28:26] <giacus> bauahahaha
[00:28:29] <giacus> cool
[00:28:52] <giacus> but.. kats and dogs can stay togheter ? O_o
[00:28:55] <giacus> :D
[00:29:15] <giacus> damn it ..
[00:29:33] <giacus> E. 850 for that dog
[00:29:43] <giacus> I's buy 3 drivers :P
[00:30:04] <giacus> some motor
[00:32:26] <anonimasu> nice dog :)
[00:33:03] <giacus> sigh .. a lot of money
[00:33:10] <giacus> but is nice, yes
[00:33:22] <giacus> hi John
[00:33:32] <jmkasunich> hi
[00:33:36] <anonimasu> hello john
[00:41:02] <K4ts> anonimasu: very nice my little dog ah ah
[00:41:37] <anonimasu> :)
[00:42:59] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/kats2.jpg
[00:43:02] <giacus> heh
[00:44:27] <K4ts> I buy pedigree 300 euro
[00:44:37] <giacus> K4ts: too ?
[00:44:50] <K4ts> yes giacus
[00:44:58] <giacus> how much at the end ?
[00:45:01] <K4ts> serve per quando farà cuccioli
[00:45:58] <giacus> 1000 euro ?
[00:48:05] <giacus> K4ts: for what I know is very dangerous for that small dog to have puppy
[00:48:27] <giacus> in most case they die
[00:48:44] <K4ts> no no
[00:48:52] <K4ts> vuoi vedere con il cappotto
[00:48:55] <K4ts> ah ah
[00:49:02] <giacus> ltes see..
[00:51:53] <anonimasu> nah
[00:52:17] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[00:54:36] <sersport> hi
[00:54:36] <sersport> I live in Russia
[00:54:59] <giacus> I sergio :)
[00:55:05] <giacus> hi
[00:55:44] <sersport> hello Giacomo
[00:56:51] <giacus> sersport: found you :)
[00:57:23] <sersport> maybe help me giacus to find electronic dictionary
[00:58:13] <giacus> already tried wikipedia ?
[00:58:21] <giacus> what youre looking for ?
[00:58:52] <sersport> no, how I can to do it?
[00:59:08] <sersport> russian-english
[00:59:15] <giacus> http://wikipedia.org
[00:59:32] <giacus> dunno about russian language
[01:04:26] <K4ts> giacus night
[01:04:37] <giacus> ngood nite K4ts
[01:04:39] <K4ts> night all
[01:04:43] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[01:05:54] <giacus> sergio I found you http://giacus.altervista.org/sergio.png
[01:05:56] <giacus> :)
[01:06:15] <giacus> as you can see the map show my location
[01:06:21] <giacus> uhmm
[01:06:32] <giacus> should be a bit more to south ..
[01:06:56] <sersport> ok
[01:07:02] <giacus> :-)
[01:13:46] <giacus> ah, sergio Epanorama should be nice too
[01:13:52] <giacus> http://www.epanorama.net/
[01:19:04] <sersport> ok, thanks for help, but likely hand dictionary is better
[01:19:21] <giacus> K
[01:22:31] <giacus> hahaha
[01:22:54] <giacus> k4ts gave me this latest pic befpore go to sleep http://giacus.altervista.org/kats3.jpg
[01:23:06] <giacus> thats a cool dog haha
[01:24:56] <sersport> giacus, which mobile phone have you? My phone ''Nokia 6111''
[01:25:36] <giacus> sersport: I had 3 cellphoes in the latest years
[01:26:02] <giacus> the only one is working a bit well is the sony ericsson T68i i actually have
[01:26:17] <giacus> Nokia are nice cellphone too
[01:26:26] <giacus> I like old models
[01:26:36] <giacus> was very efficent
[01:28:14] <sersport> how much costs sony ericsson T68i?
[01:28:51] <giacus> when I bought it was around E. 180
[01:29:02] <giacus> now should be much less
[01:29:18] <giacus> I bought it years ago ..
[01:29:35] <giacus> just to have bluetooth :(
[01:30:08] <giacus> I think cellphone cannot be a microcomputer
[01:30:33] <giacus> lots of issue are appearing with model using onboard camera
[01:30:44] <sersport> Nokia 6111 costs about 400 euro now
[01:30:51] <giacus> nice
[01:31:02] <giacus> Ive and handheld
[01:31:02] <sersport> yes
[01:31:23] <giacus> Ipaq 3970 and Linux up and running
[01:31:53] <giacus> thats is a true computer
[01:32:04] <giacus> I can ssh from remote
[01:32:16] <giacus> use irc and lot of things
[01:33:05] <giacus> here's my equipments http://image2.frappr.com/pics1/i/20051127/9/1/c/91c3a50be76d5842db1b34126635d0f10
[01:33:29] <giacus> i'll never buy a sofistied cellphone again in my life !
[01:33:41] <giacus> just a fone to talk
[01:33:45] <giacus> phone*
[01:34:05] <anonimasu> hehe
[01:34:59] <giacus> sersport: here's the right url http://www.frappr.com/?a=photo&gid=37499&pid=686052&src=flash_slideticker
[01:35:40] <giacus> Ipaq 3970 also have the optional Phone board
[01:35:56] <giacus> but as I saw, I never mind to buy it !
[01:37:54] <anonimasu> maybe I should post my machine at frappr
[01:38:04] <giacus> yeah :)
[01:38:14] <anonimasu> once I get one or two axis:es running
[01:38:15] <anonimasu> :)
[01:39:32] <giacus> some video should be nice too
[01:39:58] <giacus> however frappr do not allow for videos upload :(
[01:41:04] <anonimasu> :)
[01:44:24] <giacus> latest video I upload was this: http://giacus.altervista.org/mov01491.mpg
[01:44:29] <giacus> on my website
[01:44:48] <giacus> teaching my robot to follow sound :P
[01:47:47] <anonimasu> :)
[01:51:22] <giacus> should look like this at the end http://www.de-club.net/myr/
[01:51:55] <giacus> bluetooth, webcam,
[01:52:05] <giacus> can talk and eard
[01:52:31] <giacus> motherboard work with a Linux kernel
[01:52:48] <giacus> should be a nice toy :)
[01:56:02] <giacus> i'm courius to see the cat meet the droid :P
[01:57:08] <giacus> because the robot should be able to find object and follow things or peoples
[01:57:16] <giacus> haha
[01:57:40] <giacus> and cats too
[02:00:33] <Jymm> cats == dog food
[02:00:47] <giacus> :>
[02:06:25] <giacus> * giacus tired
[02:06:36] <anonimasu> nights
[02:06:47] <anonimasu> err night
[02:06:49] <giacus> I should pass to the scanner thousand of photos :(
[02:06:55] <giacus> night anonimasu
[02:21:54] <giacus> * giacus goes to
[02:21:57] <giacus> night
[02:30:54] <sersport> where are you from?
[03:34:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/ (emc.nml etch.hal etch.ini etch.tbl etch.var): etch-a-sketch servo configuration
[03:44:58] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/hal_joystick.1: added man page for hal_joystick
[03:46:07] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/Makefile: added man page for hal_joystick
[05:14:58] <Jymm> SWP_Away wake up!
[05:15:08] <SWP_Away> no way
[05:15:19] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[05:15:30] <Jymm> SWP_Away http://search.ebay.com/7599602097
[05:15:39] <Jymm> 80000 mcd
[05:15:45] <SWPadnos> that's a lot
[05:15:58] <Jymm> 20 for $7
[05:16:20] <SWPadnos> that's not a bad deal for that brightness
[05:16:32] <SWPadnos> did you look into the cd/m^2 ratings at all?
[05:16:39] <Jymm> oh damn... I just noticed they're 10mm
[05:17:03] <SWPadnos> it says 5mm in the listing
[05:17:20] <SWPadnos> next to the photo of the LED, above the light pattern pic
[05:17:49] <Jymm> look below the led in the grey area and in the title of the auction
[05:18:06] <SWPadnos> well, *those* places say it's 10mm ;)
[05:18:52] <Jymm> http://www.lck-led.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=LCK1004WCT80&osCsid=df0034f468f4fdd339f3594fec43ce1b&x=7&y=5
[05:19:06] <SWPadnos> so, should I get this? http://search.ebay.com/8779652227
[05:19:07] <Jymm> searched their website based off the PN they give in the auction
[05:19:34] <Jymm> hell no
[05:19:56] <Jymm> too much $ for that size
[05:20:01] <SWPadnos> one thing I found with these LEDs is that it was hard to tell the difference between a 7000 mcd and a 9000 mcd
[05:20:02] <SWPadnos> note the resolution
[05:20:07] <SWPadnos> 3840x2400
[05:20:10] <Jymm> SWPadnos I did
[05:20:29] <SWPadnos> those were $7500 new
[05:20:52] <SWPadnos> and that was the cheap Viewsonic. the IBM version was more
[05:20:52] <Jymm> Things have changed lately; you need to shop around
[05:21:07] <SWPadnos> there isn't another panel with that resolution (dot pitch)
[05:21:23] <Jymm> go for 24"
[05:21:33] <SWPadnos> I have two, but they're 1920x1200 each
[05:21:49] <SWPadnos> even the 30" dell and apple are only 133 DPI - that one is 204
[05:22:09] <SWPadnos> it's still expensive, though
[05:22:30] <Jymm> damn 10mm is huge!
[05:22:47] <SWPadnos> it's 4x the size ofa normal large LED
[05:22:53] <SWPadnos> usually 5mm dia
[05:22:56] <SWPadnos> or 3
[05:23:29] <Jymm> yeah... 5mm is perfect for what I'm thinking... even 8mm is pushing it, but 10mm ouch
[05:23:30] <SWPadnos> you also have to be careful looking at the current specs. some of the ratings are "peak" vs "continuous" (kind of like servos)
[05:23:56] <Jymm> almost ALL of their leds listed are 3.4-3.6v @ 20ma
[05:24:16] <SWPadnos> yeah. I found that it pays to look at the spec sheets
[05:24:34] <SWPadnos> they'll show the real output at some V/I rating
[05:26:16] <SWPadnos> the ccfl tube may be the least expensive option, depending on the inverter cost
[05:26:21] <Jymm> ok, $11 for 20 of the 10mm, and another $19 for 50 of the 5mm 40,000 mcd
[05:26:42] <Jymm> http://cgi.ebay.com/PURE-WHITE-LEDs-50PCS-x-40-000MCD-Ultra-Bright-5mm-Led_W0QQitemZ7600081115QQcategoryZ66952QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:29:40] <Jymm> i luxeon $15 65 lumens =)
[05:29:45] <Jymm> 1 luxeon $15 65 lumens =)
[05:30:25] <SWPadnos> that's about 1/10 the output of a 60W bulb
[05:30:48] <SWPadnos> but from a much smaller area, so it looks bright as hell
[05:31:28] <Jymm> yeah, but nuttin will really compete with my spotlight.... 3M cnadlepower
[05:31:38] <SWPadnos> costco, babay!
[05:31:45] <Jymm> Target!
[05:31:54] <Jymm> rechargaable battery
[05:32:14] <SWPadnos> yep. portable or AC / car use, 2M or 3M candlepower
[05:32:20] <Jymm> Jymm is now known as Jymmm
[05:32:26] <SWPadnos> now there's a unit from a prior century ;)
[05:32:32] <Jymmm> no AC, just cigar and battery
[05:32:48] <SWPadnos> I think the costco one can be charged from AC as well
[05:32:54] <Jymmm> I have a AC charger fo rthe battery, but it's just a charger.
[05:33:13] <Jymmm> But.... my 5-15VDC@30a Ps has a cigar jack
[05:33:32] <SWPadnos> there are two I can think of - one is about the size of a "standard" lantern
[05:33:51] <SWPadnos> the other is about the size of 2 car batteries, and is friggin bright
[05:34:21] <Jymmm> no this is like a gun with a 10" diameter barrel
[05:35:14] <SWPadnos> okl, so searchlight-type?
[05:35:16] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:35:30] <Jymmm> yeah, with trigger/lock
[05:36:04] <Jymmm> brb... smoke
[05:39:08] <Jymmm> I'm tired, but I want to spend up the next 4 to 5 hours
[05:39:24] <SWPadnos> I think I'll be going to bed very shortly
[05:39:36] <SWPadnos> I've only gotten about 4 hours sleep the past 2 nights
[05:39:42] <Jymmm> We're feeding the baby every hour.
[05:39:59] <SWPadnos> yeah. ugh
[05:40:14] <Jymmm> He's made it 24 hours, so that's a good thing.
[05:40:27] <SWPadnos> yes it is
[05:40:50] <Jymmm> once we get past 48 hours is usually the test, but he's a strong lil guy.
[05:41:36] <Jymmm> I ordered tooling and engraving plastic today.
[05:41:43] <SWPadnos> coo
[05:41:45] <SWPadnos> l
[05:42:14] <Jymmm> I'm goin broke! lol
[05:42:24] <Jymmm> and now want to order LEDS, sigh.
[05:42:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:42:55] <SWPadnos> at least you're not looking at a $1600 monitor ;)
[05:42:55] <Jymmm> $200
[05:43:18] <SWPadnos> how many LEDs do you need?
[05:43:20] <Jymmm> No, I have a spare monitor in the closet if this one goes.
[05:43:50] <Jymmm> these are for testing... but I wnat to have enough to make a couple prototypes.
[05:44:00] <SWPadnos> I could always downgrade to dual or single monitors if I had to, plus I have two 1280x1024 LCDs sitting around (one new touchscreen - should be good for the CNC)
[05:44:18] <Jymmm> the 10MM are primarily due to theri brightness just in case the 5mm aren't bright enough.
[05:44:41] <SWPadnos> there are several measures of "brightness"
[05:45:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos well 40K to 80K means double to me, so we'll see.
[05:45:22] <SWPadnos> wikipedia has good definitions - look for illuminance
[05:45:36] <SWPadnos> that's true, if it's an apples to apples comparison
[05:45:42] <Jymmm> doh... baby feeding time... back in 10 minutes
[05:45:51] <SWPadnos> ok. I'll be going to bed. good luck
[05:49:48] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[05:51:10] <Jymmm> back
[05:51:25] <Jymmm> doh
[05:51:34] <Jymmm> g'night
[05:54:39] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[05:54:54] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[10:08:27] <anonimasu> morning
[10:08:36] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has a 4 jaw chuck for the rotary table
[10:41:40] <etla> hi, anyone here ?
[10:42:57] <fenn> i'm mostly awake
[10:43:18] <fenn> havent seen you in a while
[10:43:43] <etla> hi, I'm trying to install emc2
[10:43:47] <fenn> did you ever design that motor controller?
[10:44:00] <etla> "unrecognized auth response from cvs.sourceforge.net: M -!- Client or Server timeot"
[10:44:05] <etla> no still planning the servodrive
[10:44:13] <fenn> sourceforge is flaky as hell lately
[10:44:52] <etla> I want to try the new trajectory planner
[10:45:56] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/emc2.tar.gz
[10:46:02] <fenn> that might be a couple days old
[10:46:06] <fenn> and i havent tested it
[10:46:27] <etla> ok, is that the testing branch ?
[10:46:33] <fenn> that is head
[10:46:49] <fenn> i dont remember if the new tp is in testing yet
[10:47:07] <etla> should be in the latest testing
[10:47:10] <anonimasu> :)
[10:47:21] <anonimasu> hm, it seems like it's working
[10:47:26] <anonimasu> fenn: what's up today?
[10:47:59] <fenn> fell kinda sick.. someone was smoking in my house and the smoke all kinda settles right over my bed
[10:48:12] <fenn> i dont handle cigarette smoke very well
[10:49:43] <anonimasu> hm
[10:49:54] <anonimasu> open up a window :)
[10:50:46] <fenn> i was asleep.. and live in a basement (no windows)
[10:50:50] <anonimasu> :/
[10:51:06] <fenn> had to air out the house for 10 minutes before i could go back in
[10:51:35] <fenn> anyway the developer cvs is working fine.. new version of emc2.tar.gz if you want it
[10:51:44] <etla> "checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables"
[10:51:47] <etla> what to do ??
[10:52:01] <etla> this is the output from ./configure
[10:52:34] <fenn> you have gcc right?
[10:52:38] <fenn> * fenn thinks
[10:53:02] <etla> I'm probably missing the "build-dep emc2"
[10:53:09] <etla> which should be got somehow with apt-get ?
[10:53:34] <fenn> apt-get might not be a bad idea
[10:54:20] <etla> apt-get says "E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list"
[10:54:41] <fenn> heh what distro is this?
[10:54:48] <etla> BDI
[10:55:01] <fenn> * fenn sighs
[10:55:34] <etla> fairly recent version
[10:56:39] <fenn> 4.38?
[10:56:41] <etla> so any ideas what should go into /etc/apt/sources.list ?
[10:56:51] <etla> where could I check the BDI version ?
[10:56:59] <fenn> what kernel is it?
[10:57:48] <etla>
[10:59:03] <fenn> i'm pretty clueless when it comes to bdi stuff.. but i think that's 4.38
[10:59:31] <fenn> is there anything in /etc/apt/sources.list?
[11:00:04] <etla> yes, all entries have 'deb' in front of them
[11:00:11] <etla> ftp.debian.org
[11:00:12] <fenn> try apt-get update?
[11:01:00] <etla> tried it, I still get the E: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list
[11:01:09] <etla> I got cvs installed with apt
[11:01:21] <etla> but not the build-dep emc2
[11:01:47] <etla> # Repository for EMC and related packages
[11:01:47] <etla> # courtesy of Stewart Allen.
[11:01:47] <etla> deb http://mirrors.neuron.com/emc-bdi/apt/ sarge updates extras
[11:01:59] <fenn> oh that repository's busted
[11:02:30] <etla> any alternatives ?
[11:02:59] <fenn> hang on.. cradek's site is not very well organized either
[11:03:04] <fenn> * fenn hunts for the magic incantation
[11:04:03] <fenn> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ubuntu/emc2-install.sh
[11:04:24] <fenn> i wonder if that also works on bdi
[11:04:41] <etla> now I found: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2
[11:04:49] <etla> maybe I'll try that guide
[11:04:57] <fenn> yeah i was going to point you there too
[11:05:27] <fenn> the emc deb should pull in all the packages it needs
[11:06:06] <etla> 62 packages to upgrade...
[11:06:11] <fenn> wheee
[11:19:11] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:46:32] <anonimasu> hm bbl
[11:54:27] <etla> back after crash...
[11:55:27] <etla> configure: error: version.h not found - Is the kernel headers package installed ?
[11:55:43] <etla> make: Makefile:202: *** KDIR is not set and /lib/modules/ is not a valid kernel build location
[12:00:58] <etla> E: Couldn't find package rtai-dev-
[12:01:08] <etla> anyone know how to install emc2 on bdi 4.38 ??
[12:01:11] <anonimasu> iab
[12:01:26] <anonimasu> you can always dpkg -i
[12:01:27] <fenn> did you set kdir when running make?
[12:01:30] <anonimasu> and grab the packaged manually
[12:01:34] <anonimasu> packages..
[12:02:08] <fenn> KDIR=/usr/src/linux-headers-`uname-r`
[12:02:33] <etla> so ./config KDIR=/usr/src/linux-headers-`uname-r` ?
[12:02:58] <fenn> try export KDIR=...
[12:04:23] <etla> now ./configure runs until:
[12:04:32] <etla> checking /usr/src/kernel-source- usability... no
[12:04:32] <etla> checking /usr/src/kernel-source- presence... no
[12:04:32] <etla> checking for /usr/src/kernel-source- no
[12:04:33] <etla> configure: error: version.h not found - Is the kernel headers package installed ?
[12:05:22] <etla> I'm trying the commands from the emc2 on bdi 4.38 page
[12:05:35] <etla> sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev rtai-dev-`uname -r` does not work
[12:05:42] <etla> E: Couldn't find package rtai-dev-
[12:06:04] <etla> is it still my sources.list that is wrong ??
[12:08:47] <fenn> ummm..
[12:08:56] <fenn> try apt-get install rtai-dev-
[12:11:35] <fenn> 'error: C compiler cannot create executables', that means the glibc-dev isn't installed
[12:14:21] <etla> Selecting previously deselected package rtai-dev-
[12:14:21] <etla> (Reading database ... 99342 files and directories currently installed.)
[12:14:22] <etla> Unpacking rtai-dev- (from .../rtai-dev- ...
[12:14:22] <etla> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/rtai-dev- (--unpack):
[12:14:23] <etla> trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/rtai-config', which is also in package rtai-dev
[12:14:23] <etla> Errors were encountered while processing:
[12:14:24] <etla> /var/cache/apt/archives/rtai-dev-
[12:14:26] <etla> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[12:15:01] <etla> this is displayed when I run sudo apt-get install rtai-dev-
[12:16:35] <anonimasu> --force-all --do-as-i-say --OBEY-ME
[12:16:45] <fenn> anonimasu: do you know where to get rtai-dev-
[12:16:47] <anonimasu> just kidding
[12:16:52] <anonimasu> the source?
[12:16:56] <fenn> the .deb
[12:17:02] <anonimasu> unfortunately not
[12:17:02] <fenn> source deb
[12:17:23] <fenn> i have no idea how all this deb stuff works
[12:17:32] <fenn> * fenn <-- fedora luser
[12:24:38] <etla> crash again...
[12:25:16] <etla> E: Couldn't find package rtai-dev-
[12:25:24] <etla> E: Couldn't find package linux-headers-
[12:25:30] <etla> I need those packages...
[12:26:27] <anonimasu> 3http://linuxwiki.org/EMC/EMC2_Installation
[12:26:42] <fenn> did you add dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/emc2/ to your sources.list?
[12:27:24] <anonimasu> http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/emc2/dists/breezy/emc2/binary-i386/
[12:27:46] <anonimasu> grab the packages by hand and "dpkg -i" them
[12:27:48] <fenn> i'm sure there's some way to compile emc2 without having to install those packages
[12:27:56] <etla> OK, I'll update my sources.list, wait a moment
[12:27:57] <fenn> but it might be the easiest way
[12:28:02] <anonimasu> yeah downloading the stuff manually and compiling
[12:28:13] <anonimasu> but that requires you to know how to comile kernels and stuff..
[12:28:24] <fenn> the kernel's already compiled.. he just needs headers for it
[12:28:33] <fenn> oh! etla add the cdrom to your sources
[12:28:35] <anonimasu> just download them manually
[12:28:40] <fenn> something like apt-cdrom add
[12:28:48] <fenn> something goofy like that :)
[12:28:50] <etla> so "deb dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/emc2/" into sources.list ?
[12:28:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:29:25] <fenn> deb http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/emc2/ breezy emc2
[12:29:31] <fenn> deb-src http://dsplabs.cs.upt.ro/emc2/ breezy emc2
[12:29:46] <fenn> sudo apt-get update
[12:29:46] <fenn> sudo apt-get install emc2-axis
[12:30:03] <fenn> hah i'll be amazed if that works
[12:31:53] <etla> E: Couldn't find package rtai-dev-
[12:32:04] <etla> even after modifying sources.list and running apt-get update
[12:33:53] <etla> now I'm trying the german instructions my anonimasu...
[12:33:57] <etla> by
[12:34:16] <anonimasu> :)
[12:34:22] <anonimasu> I didnt write them
[12:34:22] <anonimasu> ;)
[12:43:45] <etla> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h', needed by `depends/rtapi/rtai_ulapi.d'. Stop.
[12:44:01] <etla> ./configure now seems to go through everything OK
[12:47:22] <etla> now I get make to run somehow:
[12:47:24] <etla> Compiling hal/classicladder/classicladder.c -DGTK_INTERFACE
[12:47:24] <etla> hal/classicladder/classicladder.c:28: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
[12:47:24] <etla> make: *** [objects/hal/classicladder/classicladder.o] Error 1
[12:47:40] <fenn> apt-get all the crap again
[12:47:54] <fenn> but without the package that makes it error out
[12:49:11] <etla> which package is that ? dgtk_interface ?
[12:49:52] <fenn> i dunno.. i'm sure you need all of them
[12:50:29] <fenn> libgtk2.0-dev
[12:50:54] <etla> how do I uninstall that package
[12:51:17] <K4ts> hi
[12:52:05] <etla> Package libgtk2.0-dev is not installed, so not removed
[12:52:05] <etla> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
[12:57:13] <fenn> what? you need to install it
[12:57:19] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_38_Compile_E
[12:57:23] <fenn> MC2
[12:57:58] <etla> make: *** /usr/src/linux-headers- No such file or directory. Stop.
[12:57:58] <etla> make: *** [modules] Error 2
[12:58:03] <etla> yes I installed it
[12:58:12] <fenn> arg
[12:58:14] <etla> now make runs for a while and then stops at this error message
[12:58:29] <etla> sudo apt-get install kernel-headers- is done
[12:58:38] <etla> sudo apt-get install kernel-source- is also done
[12:59:11] <fenn> figure out where the header files went
[12:59:16] <fenn> for the kernel
[12:59:50] <etla> I have kernel-headers
[12:59:58] <etla> is that the same as linux-headers ?
[13:00:23] <fenn> yeah
[13:00:30] <etla> so I can make a symlink ?
[13:00:33] <fenn> yep
[13:00:55] <etla> how did the syntax go ? ln -s source target ?
[13:01:06] <fenn> i always get it backwards
[13:04:15] <etla> now make says: /usr/src/kernel-headers- /usr/src/kernel-headers- No such file or directory
[13:05:46] <giacus> check gcc version
[13:06:01] <etla> I have no /usr/src/kernel-.../scripts directory...
[13:06:10] <etla> sudo apt-get install gcc
[13:06:10] <etla> Reading Package Lists... Done
[13:06:11] <etla> Building Dependency Tree... Done
[13:06:11] <etla> gcc is already the newest version.
[13:06:12] <etla> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
[13:06:20] <etla> so I think gcc is the newest version ?
[13:06:28] <fenn> eww gross ubuntu doen't install the version of gcc required to compile a kernel
[13:08:05] <etla> gcc-2.95 is also installed as the german instructions say
[13:10:26] <fenn> i have no idea why the scripts not there.. but this is what it does: http://www.linux-m32r.org/lxr/http/source/scripts/gcc-version.sh
[13:10:58] <etla> I'm also missing something else from the kernel-headers directory: WARNING: Symbol version dump /usr/src/kernel-headers-
[13:10:58] <etla> is missing; modules will have no dependencies and modversions.
[13:12:23] <etla> maybe linux-headers -> kernel-source instead ??
[13:12:47] <etla> that has a scripts directory
[13:14:25] <etla> yah, now make is running again
[13:15:36] <etla> it runs:EMC2 - TESTING-2006-03-02
[13:15:36] <etla> Error in startup script: can't read "logo": no such variable
[13:15:37] <etla> while executing
[13:15:37] <etla> "label .logo -image $logo"
[13:15:38] <etla> invoked from within
[13:15:38] <etla> "set logo [label .logo -image $logo]"
[13:15:39] <etla> (file "/home/etla/emc2/emc2-testing/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl" line 160)
[13:16:41] <giacus> etla: what gcc -dumpversion syas ?
[13:17:31] <etla> 3.3.5
[13:17:39] <giacus> right
[13:17:52] <etla> I got it to compile now finally, but now ./emc complains about a missing 'logo' variable
[13:18:33] <etla> btw this is the source from alex jonis site, testing-2006-03-02 since I cannot get sourceforge cvs to work right now
[13:18:49] <giacus> mmm
[13:19:06] <giacus> it seems something around tcl ..
[13:19:26] <etla> yes, pickconfig.tcl ?
[13:19:37] <giacus> could be some tcl package maybe
[13:20:04] <fenn> did you configure --enable-run-in-place ?
[13:20:56] <etla> yes I think so but I might try configure and make again
[13:21:19] <etla> what are the tcl packages needed ?
[13:22:35] <fenn> tk8.4-dev tcl8.4-dev
[13:22:50] <giacus> try dpkg -l | grep tcl
[13:23:03] <giacus> lets see what you already have
[13:23:06] <etla> now I did ./config --enable-run-in-place, then make, and then sudo make setuid, still the same problem
[13:23:09] <etla> ok, giacus
[13:23:31] <etla> ii tcl8.4 8.4.9-1 Tcl (the Tool Command Language) v8.4 - run-t
[13:23:31] <etla> ii tcl8.4-dev 8.4.9-1 Tcl (the Tool Command Language) v8.4 - devel
[13:24:02] <giacus> is that BDI ?
[13:24:10] <etla> yes.
[13:24:15] <etla> 4.38 I think
[13:24:23] <giacus> I also have tclx8.4 8.4.7-1bdi
[13:24:37] <giacus> try to search it
[13:24:37] <etla> so apt-get install those
[13:25:08] <giacus> but .. it is Extended Tcl (TclX) version 8.4 CVS - shared
[13:25:13] <fenn> * fenn compiles to see if the source code actually works :)
[13:25:50] <giacus> do alse make clean before any new compilation ..
[13:25:57] <etla> still the same problem...
[13:26:42] <etla> ok, now I did make clean and then make, let's see...
[13:29:14] <etla> still: EMC2 - TESTING-2006-03-02
[13:29:14] <etla> Error in startup script: can't read "logo": no such variable
[13:29:14] <etla> while executing
[13:29:15] <etla> "label .logo -image $logo"
[13:29:15] <etla> invoked from within
[13:29:16] <etla> "set logo [label .logo -image $logo]"
[13:29:16] <etla> (file "/home/etla/emc2/emc2-testing/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl" line 160)
[13:33:56] <fenn> well the source works here.. it tries to start up axis for some reason though (weird)
[13:35:16] <etla> ok, I hacked the tcl file
[13:35:32] <fenn> that pickconfig thing is annoying
[13:35:37] <etla> it searched for images only in /etc/emc and /usr/emc, not in my run-in-place dir
[13:36:13] <etla> which setup should I choose for simple step/dir machine ?
[13:36:25] <fenn> stepper_mm or stepper_inch
[13:36:58] <etla> ok, now it starts with tkemc
[13:37:02] <etla> any chance of axis ?
[13:37:09] <fenn> ah what is this meep stuff
[13:37:39] <fenn> i'm trying to figure out wtf it tries to use axis instead of tkemc
[13:39:17] <etla> ok so something that has a backplotter
[13:39:52] <fenn> somehow stepper-xyza is messing things up
[13:40:02] <etla> where do I set the steps/rev and so on ?
[13:41:25] <giacus> configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini ?
[13:41:32] <fenn> yes
[13:42:26] <fenn> oh!!! it found my other config files in ~/emc2
[13:42:27] <giacus> there's also dispaly variable there
[13:42:42] <giacus> to choose the gui
[13:43:01] <etla> OK so now I'm running emc2, that's great, but it appears that this version does not yet have the trajectory planner updates I wanted to test
[13:43:34] <etla> G64P0.1 gives me an error message P word with no g4 g10 g82 g86 g88 g89
[13:44:03] <fenn> ah.. hmm maybe i shouldn't have removed the CVS directories
[13:44:17] <fenn> no, i was right in doing so
[13:44:38] <fenn> guess who gets to re-compile emc2 again?
[13:45:46] <fenn> did you download the emc2.tar.gz after i updated it?
[13:50:37] <etla> hmm, I compiled from the tarball from the .ro site, I assume that was alex jonis package
[13:50:37] <etla> if you have sources which include the new tp I would be very interested
[13:50:37] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/emc2.tar.gz
[13:50:37] <Bo-Dick> i'd like to build a geckodrive
[13:50:37] <fenn> it doesn't give me any errors for g64 p0.1 at least
[13:50:37] <fenn> Bo-Dick: haha that's funny
[13:50:37] <Bo-Dick> all it takes is a pcb and the components i guess
[13:50:37] <fenn> sure
[13:50:43] <Bo-Dick> what could be so ridiciously difficult by soldering some components toghether
[13:50:50] <fenn> try it and see
[13:51:03] <etla> ok fenn, thanks
[13:51:16] <fenn> you will probably spend more than if you just bought a g201
[13:52:11] <Bo-Dick> well of course at least two things are assumed, one is that the components aren't surface mounted and that the schematic and part-list are available of course.
[13:52:12] <fenn> i recommend starting with something like on pminmo.com, at least you'll get help from the designers and others
[13:52:42] <fenn> gecko is a proprietary design, contains lots of weird surface mounts, and nobody is going to help you with it
[13:53:18] <Bo-Dick> well it has obviously been reverse engineered by these crazy gyus at prodrive
[13:53:30] <fenn> yep and i bet they know more about electronics than you do
[13:53:36] <fenn> and still managed to screw up
[13:53:56] <Bo-Dick> but of course they swapped components to cheaper ones that broke according to mariss's tests.
[13:53:59] <etla> fenn: make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h', needed by `depends/rtapi/rtai_ulapi.d'. Stop.
[13:54:09] <etla> this does not happen with the other tarball I have
[13:54:17] <fenn> Bo-Dick: why do you think the pro-drive costs more than the gecko?
[13:54:44] <Bo-Dick> don't think that has something to do with more expensive parts if they break more easily
[13:55:20] <fenn> etla make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h', needed by `depends/rtapi/rtai_ulapi.d'. Stop.
[13:55:20] <fenn> etla ./configure now seems to go through everything OK
[13:55:20] <fenn> etla now I get make to run somehow:
[13:55:36] <etla> yes.
[13:55:37] <fenn> i dunno what you did
[13:55:55] <etla> that means I switched to the tarball from the .ro site and did not use your sources
[13:56:01] <fenn> oh
[13:56:39] <Bo-Dick> so the challenge to build a gecko is mostly to know how it is composed?
[13:56:52] <fenn> damfino
[13:57:28] <etla> fenn: can I take the makefile from the other sources ?
[13:57:56] <fenn> i'm gonna look at the recent changes to the makefiles in rtapi
[13:58:38] <Bo-Dick> i'd be happy to build a gecko with non-surface mounted devices. it'll be slightly bigger than the original but so what.
[13:59:09] <fenn> well.. do it then
[13:59:32] <Bo-Dick> i've got a soldering station so i can't see the difficulty with the assembly part itself.
[13:59:50] <Bo-Dick> to me it all comes down to the schematic and part list.
[14:00:00] <fenn> and where are you going to get those?
[14:00:13] <Bo-Dick> from you?`
[14:00:15] <fenn> * fenn throttles sourceforge cvs
[14:00:29] <fenn> hah what makes you think i have a gecko or would help you if i did?
[14:00:50] <Bo-Dick> you mean that would be destructive to gecko?
[14:01:21] <fenn> 1) i dont think you would learn anything by reverse engineering a gecko
[14:01:36] <fenn> 2) i'm not going to help you if it doesn't teach you anything
[14:02:11] <fenn> and 3) mariss is a nice guy and i'd feel bad about pirating his design
[14:02:30] <Bo-Dick> well here's my point of view. i think it'll be easier for me to get the parts here rather than fly across the atlantic to california and buy some geckos and fly home again.
[14:02:39] <fenn> what??
[14:02:45] <fenn> you can order them over the internet you know
[14:02:59] <Bo-Dick> and have them shipped across the globe for me
[14:03:11] <fenn> yeah they dont weigh very much
[14:03:31] <fenn> where do you think your resistors were made?
[14:03:35] <Bo-Dick> that'll raise the pricetag
[14:03:38] <fenn> bah
[14:04:16] <etla> damn this emc2 thins is hard....
[14:04:22] <etla> thing
[14:04:53] <fenn> you're on the bleeding edge man
[14:05:03] <etla> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h', needed by `depends/rtapi/rtai_ulapi.d'. Stop.
[14:05:07] <fenn> and using a crappy distro (but dont let paul hear that)
[14:05:27] <Bo-Dick> well is geckodrive the _only_ drive that has all those nice features and performances?
[14:05:36] <fenn> i dont know
[14:05:40] <fenn> probably not
[14:05:48] <fenn> but it's probably the cheapest one that does
[14:06:00] <Bo-Dick> so i could just pirate any equal drive if i want to
[14:06:14] <fenn> just get something going that works before you run out of motivation
[14:06:21] <fenn> believe me
[14:06:26] <fenn> you will never make something perfect on the first try
[14:06:31] <etla> Bo-Dick: base it on a dsPIC and make the source code opensource, that way other people will benefit also
[14:07:13] <fenn> and try to do some research on your own instead of being spoon-fed on irc all the time
[14:07:36] <etla> ;)
[14:08:07] <fenn> * fenn still hasnt even started on his own driver design.. sheesh
[14:08:08] <Bo-Dick> well the spoon-feeding has led me to this point. now i know i'll porbably need anti resonance for example. i've learnt a lot. believe me.
[14:08:31] <Bo-Dick> i was so wrong about this in the beginning.
[14:08:45] <etla> go to microchip.com and read all the app-notes on motor control, you might learn something.
[14:09:19] <etla> I am giving up for today with emc2, thanks a lot fenn and others for helping. I actually got emc2 running - but not the version with the new tp that I wanted...
[14:09:24] <etla> see you, bye.
[14:09:30] <Bo-Dick> would you consider it immoral to build a stepper driver instead of bying one already assembled?
[14:09:41] <fenn> good luck etla
[14:10:07] <fenn> no, i think it would be morally superior to build one rather than buy it
[14:10:17] <fenn> but copying someone else's design blindly doesn't count
[14:10:52] <anonimasu> agreed
[14:11:04] <fenn> you will have to understand field-oriented motor control before you will know how geckos work
[14:11:14] <fenn> not to mention a lot of other stuff
[14:11:17] <Bo-Dick> well i don't care about the gecko in particular. it'll do just as good with any drive design that has the particular features which i believe not only the gecko drive has.
[14:12:32] <Bo-Dick> however the guys that copied the geckodrive still puzzles me.
[14:12:48] <fenn> Bo-Dick: read this, and come back when you're done so _I_ can pick _your_ brain :) http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/
[14:13:46] <fenn> anonimasu: what's up with the GECKODRIVE in white on the pro-drive page?
[14:14:03] <anonimasu> fenn: I'd like to know what's up with it :)
[14:14:12] <anonimasu> fenn: to get search hits I think
[14:15:39] <Bo-Dick> i already know a lot of stuff about steppers now.
[14:15:52] <anonimasu> read that page :)
[14:16:00] <Bo-Dick> btw fenn, have i told you i have my own idea about stepper drivers.
[14:16:08] <anonimasu> you can never know enough about it..
[14:16:11] <fenn> what about them?
[14:16:44] <Bo-Dick> in my mind one could have a computerized driver that samples the situation like a frequency conformer does.
[14:17:16] <Bo-Dick> the idea stems from the frequency conformers that runs three phase motors.
[14:17:18] <fenn> what is a frequency conformer?
[14:17:24] <fenn> a VFD>
[14:17:28] <anonimasu> he's talking vfd's with positioning
[14:17:35] <anonimasu> vector drive's.. probably
[14:17:51] <fenn> that's what i was talking about field oriented control
[14:18:08] <anonimasu> I wonder how much such a spindle would cost..
[14:18:16] <anonimasu> or well spindle + vfd.
[14:18:18] <Bo-Dick> a frequency conformer generates a three phase supply with adjustable frequency from a single phase supply.
[14:18:22] <fenn> oh.. it's "just electronics" :)
[14:18:36] <anonimasu> should check it out with the company I deal with at work..
[14:19:06] <Bo-Dick> they generate the signals with switching technology and constantly monitors the load.
[14:19:12] <fenn> djb_rh had some VFD's for like $20 he was willing to sell
[14:19:28] <Bo-Dick> they're pretty expensive then.
[14:19:42] <fenn> usually VFD's are around $500
[14:19:42] <anonimasu> heh
[14:19:49] <anonimasu> I am thinking about 700eur..
[14:19:50] <fenn> and up and up and up
[14:19:50] <Bo-Dick> however the idea i'm intrested in is the monitoring feature.
[14:19:53] <anonimasu> for a brand new one..
[14:20:22] <anonimasu> I am never buying a old vfd again..
[14:20:26] <fenn> using motor back-emf or with a current sensor?
[14:20:48] <anonimasu> the vfd I have today is unreliable..
[14:21:10] <fenn> real men use rotary converters :)
[14:21:17] <Bo-Dick> that doesn't really matter but the whole idea is to try to compensate out the back-emf like the VFD's do. if a VFD can do it a stepper could do it as well?
[14:21:42] <fenn> i have no idea what you're saying
[14:22:05] <Bo-Dick> well does the geckos for instance monitor the load in realtime?
[14:22:21] <fenn> i dont know
[14:22:49] <fenn> geckos are too complicated for me
[14:23:01] <fenn> if i had one, i might be more interested in it
[14:23:18] <Bo-Dick> well i assume they don't. well if a drive _would_ monitor the load in realtime it would be possible to build a stepper driver that will operate optimal regardless of the type of stepper motor, the motors inductance and resonance phenomena would be history.
[14:23:44] <Bo-Dick> you must give me credit for this smart idea.
[14:23:59] <fenn> when you say monitor the load, you mean measure the current? or determine the position of the rotor somehow?
[14:24:22] <Bo-Dick> measure the current and voltage in realtime with a high frequency.
[14:24:35] <fenn> how does this eliminate resonance problems?
[14:25:33] <Bo-Dick> the driver generates the signal with the aid of the information from the load monitoring.
[14:26:08] <Bo-Dick> that would eliminate resonance regardless of the type of motor or the speed settings.
[14:27:00] <Bo-Dick> that would be a _genuine_ universal stepper driver.
[14:27:57] <Bo-Dick> the signal shape will then be generated with the onboard micro computer for the optimal waveform for the particular circumstance.
[14:28:23] <fenn> i'm not sure you understand what mid-band resonance is.. so here's a nice movie: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/stepper_motor_acceleration.wmv
[14:28:51] <Bo-Dick> is it the guy with the hd-stepper again?
[14:28:55] <fenn> yeah
[14:29:09] <Bo-Dick> i've seen it
[14:29:19] <Bo-Dick> and understood it
[14:29:30] <Bo-Dick> i know that second order systems oscillate
[14:30:40] <Bo-Dick> so i know what i'm talking about
[14:30:57] <fenn> how do you know beforehand what the natural frequency of the motor is?
[14:31:29] <Bo-Dick> the monitoring is supposed to take care of that
[14:32:58] <Bo-Dick> i guess resonance phenomena can be monitored or am i wrong?
[14:33:20] <fenn> personally i dont understand how resonance happens with microstepping
[14:34:47] <fenn> howdy
[14:35:18] <Bo-Dick> well the bottom line is that if there really in theory exists a particular waveform that would be optimal to drive a particular stepper motor.
[14:35:36] <Bo-Dick> do you think this is the case?
[14:35:47] <fenn> yes
[14:35:58] <fenn> not at all speeds though
[14:36:11] <fenn> the waveform would have to change throughout the speed range
[14:36:24] <Bo-Dick> i'm am so perfectly aware of that
[14:36:46] <fenn> alrighty then.. time to learn about microcontrollers i guess
[14:37:23] <Bo-Dick> precisely, then you could generate the damn signal with a powerful DAC.
[14:37:44] <Bo-Dick> you're starting to get the point soon i not already
[14:37:55] <fenn> i would do it with PWM and an H-bridge
[14:38:06] <Bo-Dick> that is very much possible too
[14:38:31] <Bo-Dick> prolly more effective also
[14:38:45] <fenn> * fenn goes back to something else.. anything else
[14:38:58] <Bo-Dick> simple square waves are history
[14:39:20] <fenn> Bo-Dick: please read that jones tutorial
[14:40:05] <Bo-Dick> i will, but you can't say my idea isn't smart
[14:40:22] <fenn> your idea is amazing, now go read about the 50 different ways to do it
[14:48:10] <rayh> I got the idea, long ago from the 256 microsteps per step drives that I had laying around that you could run a stepper with analog sin signals 90 degrees apart. Tried it with a stereo amp and it works.
[14:48:43] <rayh> Now all I need is an 8 channel audio board for my pc.
[14:48:50] <rayh> And a HAL module to run it.
[14:52:36] <vq> vq is now known as ValarQ
[14:56:00] <Bo-Dick> well then another idea of mine is prolly taken already. its about sampling the signal _from_ the stepper motor and with lets say a taylor expansion determine a function that generates that very signal.
[14:56:26] <Bo-Dick> but that's prolly well known too.
[14:58:43] <Bo-Dick> * Bo-Dick feels pretty useless
[15:02:44] <rayh> No reason to feel that way. Just take your ideas and figure out how to work them with emc.
[15:04:36] <Bo-Dick> that'll take some time
[15:09:10] <skunkworks> cradek - the torc.ncg runs just fine. So calculating multible sin - cos calculations must not work that well to feed the tp.
[15:11:13] <jepler> skunkworks: Lots of small segments are always bad, and it doesn't matter if they're produced by traditional or O-word gcode.
[15:11:16] <skunkworks> on my computer. I am leaning towards jeplers idea - don't use o words.
[15:11:29] <skunkworks> Hi
[15:12:25] <jepler> hi
[15:12:50] <skunkworks> I didn't think they where that small - will have to look. proably didn't acutally look at segment size.
[15:15:37] <jepler> Short segments are bad because the TP plans in a way that it can always stop at the end of any segment.
[15:17:13] <skunkworks> So cradek decided to do that? I thought he was leaning to an e-stop if the tp got starved.
[15:17:45] <skunkworks> (that is what I was wondering also - as it didn't stop running the oword program)
[15:17:59] <skunkworks> it did act like exact stop.
[15:18:48] <Bo-Dick> hey, the "jones on stepping motors" is a rather basic guide with h-bridges and stuff!
[15:19:23] <skunkworks> it gives you a good base on stepping motors.
[15:19:49] <jepler> skunkworks: I don't mean that cradek's TP *is* exact stop
[15:19:59] <Bo-Dick> i was looking for advanced stuff such as signal modelling and stuff
[15:21:09] <jepler> skunkworks: and I'm having trouble explaining what I do mean
[15:21:13] <skunkworks> jepler: - I know what you mean. if the tp doesn't get info quick enough it will have to do exact stop as it doen't know what the next segments are going to be.
[15:21:16] <skunkworks> I think
[15:22:06] <skunkworks> I just thought cradek was thinking of going into an estop if this was happening. (which I didn't agree with ;))
[15:24:42] <jepler> the TP plans each segment as though it were the only segment, so it has to reach 0 velocity at the end
[15:25:01] <jepler> when another segment is available, it will overlap the accel and decel phases
[15:25:17] <jepler> but that still means if the segments are short the average velocity will be very small
[15:25:50] <skunkworks> I can visualise that also.
[15:26:56] <jepler> so each segment would need to be around 2 * (distance to accelerate from 0 to requeted speed) long to keep up a good speed
[15:43:32] <staggerlytom> mornin all
[16:19:15] <anonimasu> hm
[16:19:19] <anonimasu> the spindle is almost mounted
[16:26:24] <staggerlytom> on the wiki, i want to update a schematic, how do i remove the old one?
[16:29:07] <fenn> i dont think you can
[16:29:18] <fenn> just add the new one and remove the link to the old one
[16:31:05] <staggerlytom> thanks, i thought there'd be a dead file with no link. will do that as its the only offer tho.
[16:50:28] <Bo-Dick> why isn't there a standardized way to connect a stepper motor to its driver?
[16:51:52] <Bo-Dick> i'm thinking of a d-sub 9 connector since a stepper motor can never have more than eight wires right?
[16:54:30] <fenn> bigger motors need a higher current rating
[16:54:58] <fenn> also, there are multiple ways of connecting a motor, for unipolar or bipolar operation
[16:55:14] <fenn> but i agree, it's annoying
[16:55:48] <fenn> a lot of people use MIDI connectors, whatever those are called
[16:56:50] <Bo-Dick> i thought eight connectors could cover all different ways of connecting a stepper motor
[16:57:32] <Bo-Dick> ...and a nicety with the d-sub is that it can be locked into position with screws
[16:58:42] <Bo-Dick> btw, the MIDI connectors are called DIN. Deutche Industrie Norme = German Industrial Standard
[17:01:07] <Bo-Dick> but of course the d-subs can't handle 6 amps can they?
[17:03:29] <fenn> no, probably only 1 amp
[17:03:59] <fenn> i have db9's on mine actually
[17:05:04] <fenn> it's much easier to unplug them than unscrewing a bunch of terminals
[17:05:32] <Bo-Dick> thats cool. i'm using the male connectors on the driver itself just like a serial port on a computer motherboard.
[17:06:31] <jepler> the datasheet for this 9-pin "sub" donnector gives nominal current 7.5A. http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=460656&e_categoryid=615&e_pcodeid=52325
[17:06:38] <fenn> wow
[17:08:14] <Bo-Dick> 7.5 amps through a little d-sub! yeez
[17:08:16] <fenn> expensive connectors
[17:08:49] <Bo-Dick> but it should have somthing to do with the size of the connectors not just the material used.
[17:08:49] <jepler> the datasheet is pretty terse. do they mean 7.5 amps per pin, or per connector?
[17:09:12] <Bo-Dick> ok, that explains
[17:09:15] <anonimasu> connector i think
[17:17:21] <jepler> http://catandgirl.com/store/fca.php
[17:19:50] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[17:20:09] <SWPadnos> hi folks
[17:20:48] <SWPadnos> I think that connector spec is quoting per pin current. 7.5A is the rating for enclosed 20 AWG wire
[17:21:15] <fenn> the contact resistance is 8.5mOhm
[17:21:42] <SWPadnos> so 63.75 mV at 7.5A
[17:22:06] <fenn> .47W
[17:22:28] <SWPadnos> yep. or ~4.5W for the whole connnector
[17:22:34] <SWPadnos> not sure I'd do that for long ;)
[17:24:11] <fenn> that's kinda depressing jepler
[17:25:43] <fenn> this is even worse http://catandgirl.com/store/death.php
[17:27:21] <jepler> hahah
[17:27:45] <jepler> you can't let little stuff like "we're all going to die someday" get you depressed.
[17:27:53] <fenn> sure you can
[17:27:57] <fenn> i do it all the time
[17:28:15] <anonimasu> heh
[17:29:46] <SWPadnos> http://catandgirl.com/store/trophy.php
[17:29:57] <SWPadnos> I wonder how many people get that reference
[17:30:05] <SWPadnos> (or if I have the right one ;) )
[17:30:09] <fenn> yeah it's from a video game :)
[17:30:17] <SWPadnos> nope
[17:30:28] <SWPadnos> "graphic novel"
[17:30:33] <fenn> yeah yeah some long dead poet
[17:30:57] <jepler> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias
[17:31:07] <SWPadnos> that could be where the graphic novel authors got it
[17:31:57] <SWPadnos> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen
[17:32:27] <fenn> that's prolly the only DC comic that doesn't totally blow
[17:32:46] <SWPadnos> a friend of mine wants everyone to read it
[17:32:47] <SWPadnos> so I did
[17:34:02] <SWPadnos> there's a full-length graphic novel with an "end of the world" theme, which is the one I read
[17:34:57] <fenn> it's painfully close to certain conspiracy theories
[17:35:15] <SWPadnos> I suspect that there's a conspiracy theory to match almost anything ;)
[17:36:05] <SWPadnos> ok. that is the plot summary I remember
[17:51:21] <etla2> anyone know where I can get the latest TESTING source ?
[17:51:30] <SWPadnos> sourceforge CVS?
[17:51:41] <SWPadnos> unless it's acting uppity
[17:51:42] <etla2> I'm trying cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc but I only get a timeout
[17:52:02] <SWPadnos> hmmm. alex's nightly tarballs may be a better idea - let me find a link
[17:52:14] <fenn> etla reminds me to mention that HEAD is busted for BDI
[17:52:16] <etla2> after much trying I got http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc2-testing-2006-03-02.tar.gz
[17:52:36] <SWPadnos> ok. - that's the right-looking place ;)
[17:52:38] <etla2> to work, but it doesnt understand G64P0.1 which was specifically what I wanted to test, the new and improved tp
[17:53:33] <SWPadnos> strange. I thought the tarball making process was automated.
[17:53:34] <cradek> you'll need TESTING-2006-03-12 for that
[17:53:46] <SWPadnos> there isn't one
[17:53:58] <cradek> I'm pretty sure alex makes them by hand, and he's been away from home all week
[17:54:07] <etla2> now I got a reply from sourceforge again: cvs [login aborted]: unrecognized auth response from cvs.sourceforge.net: M -!- Client or Server timeout occurred!
[17:54:15] <SWPadnos> right. he was asking about cron scripts a while back
[17:54:22] <etla2> is the problem with sourceforge or in my end ?
[17:54:27] <SWPadnos> sourcefoge
[17:54:27] <jepler> the problem is probably sourceforge
[17:54:31] <jepler> it's been pretty unreliable lately
[17:55:05] <cradek> etla2: sometimes trying ten more times will get you a checkout
[17:55:45] <fenn> the automated script went away with the sub-makefile revolution, and it also needs anonymous cvs to work right
[17:55:56] <etla2> ok, I'll try... I was just so excited when I got emc2 to finally compile and run, dissapointed to not see the new G64 mode :(
[17:56:17] <jepler> fenn: what's broken? will it show up when I build, or do I have to run it?
[17:56:35] <fenn> it was in the old makefile and now it's not
[17:56:50] <cradek> http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot5.txt
[17:56:53] <fenn> basically you find emc2/ -name CVS | xargs rm -r
[17:57:00] <fenn> then tar and gz it up
[17:57:32] <jepler> fenn: cradek that looks like a successful build to me
[17:57:52] <jepler> fenn: (I meant what's broken about the bdi build)
[17:58:02] <cradek> right, looks fine there
[17:58:12] <jepler> it build on my bdi-4.30+upgrades machine too
[17:58:13] <etla2> so any idea where I could get an emc2 version with the new tp ?
[17:58:41] <SWPadnos> hold on a moment. I'm trying something with CVS
[17:58:42] <fenn> make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h', needed by `depends/rtapi/rtai_ulapi.d'. Stop
[17:58:51] <fenn> you'll have to ask etla for the details
[17:58:53] <cradek> fenn: make clean
[17:59:21] <fenn> what exactly is going on there?
[17:59:22] <cradek> well actually that looks fine doesn't it
[17:59:28] <etla2> ha ha
[17:59:36] <cradek> /usr/realtime/include/rtai_shm.h is included but doesn't exist
[18:00:03] <jepler> fenn: earlier, rtai_ulapi included rtai_shm.h at the path shown. Now, that file doesn't exist anymore, and there's no rule in the makefile to build it
[18:00:12] <cradek> it's /usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/include on ubuntu
[18:00:55] <fenn> so why's it still there?
[18:00:58] <cradek> etla2: I suggest you keep trying cvs
[18:01:38] <jepler> fenn: the .d (dependency) and .o files depend on the same things: the files included by the source file
[18:02:29] <jepler> "make clean" will remove the .d file
[18:02:37] <fenn> lemme make clear a little.. this error happened on etla's machine (BDI) but not mine (FC3)
[18:02:44] <jepler> and the next make will regenerate it with the new location of rtai_shm.h (if the -I directives are right)
[18:03:35] <fenn> so you have to run make twice in a row?
[18:03:36] <jepler> you shouldn't pass around a tarball with a "depends" directory in it
[18:03:51] <fenn> ok i guess i'm not making the tarball right then
[18:03:51] <jepler> "make clean; make"
[18:04:37] <cradek> fenn: you should make clean before you make a tarball
[18:04:48] <fenn> ok
[18:04:51] <cradek> fenn: also I suggest you leave IN the cvs directories (from anonymous checkout)
[18:05:03] <fenn> anonymous checkout was busted so i had to use dev checkout
[18:05:07] <jepler> You can also make tarballs with 'cvs export'
[18:05:32] <fenn> i can switch to dev somehow from an anon checkout, right?
[18:05:49] <cradek> I think not easily
[18:06:27] <jepler> something like this: cvs -d:ext:username@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc export -d emc2-testing -rTESTING emc2
[18:06:42] <jepler> (you don't get CVS dirs that way, though)
[18:08:31] <etla2> oh... for the tarball I got from fenn I did make clean and the make.
[18:08:33] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/emc2-testing-2006-03-12.tar.bz2
[18:08:35] <etla2> now it compiles !
[18:08:45] <fenn> that figures
[18:08:48] <jepler> (made with "cvs export")
[18:08:50] <etla2> only the pickconfig.tcl bug left !
[18:09:13] <jepler> "pickconfig.tcl bug"?
[18:09:30] <etla2> this is EMC2 - Prerelease CVS HEAD, fenn do you think this has the new tp ? you said it was a few days old
[18:10:03] <etla2> jepler: EMC2 - Prerelease CVS HEAD
[18:10:03] <etla2> Error in startup script: can't read "logo": no such variable
[18:10:03] <fenn> i dont know.. i think it's past my bedtime
[18:10:04] <etla2> while executing
[18:10:34] <etla2> have to hack pickconfig.tcl to include the run-in-place dir manualy
[18:11:00] <etla2> otherwise emc will not start because it doesn't find a logo gif ;)
[18:11:17] <jepler> for run-in-place, you have to be in the emc2 directory
[18:13:27] <etla2> ok, now it works. hopefully G64P0.1 works on this tp
[18:14:13] <etla2> oh no, it crashes at startup, libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 624: cms_config: can't open 'emc.nml'. Error = 2 -- No such file or directory
[18:14:13] <etla2> libnml/nml/nml.cc 369: NML: cms_config returned -1.
[18:16:01] <etla2> libnml/cms/cms_cfg.cc 624: cms_config: can't open 'emc.nml'. Error = 2 -- No such file or directory
[18:16:01] <etla2> libnml/nml/nml.cc 369: NML: cms_config returned -1.
[18:16:23] <cradek> etla2: are you running "scripts/emc" from the emc2 toplevel directory, then picking one of the configs?
[18:16:32] <etla2> I'm going to try testing 2006-03-12
[18:16:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/hal/components/freqgen.c: remove incorrect frequency doubling I added earlier
[18:17:10] <cradek> yes I think that's the one you should be using
[18:17:12] <etla2> cradek: yes I tried both scripts/emc and cd scripts and then ./emc, then I'm picking stepper_mm but then the script exits
[18:17:32] <cradek> etla2: fenn sent you this tree?
[18:17:39] <SWPadnos> jepler, what was the problem with the 50% duty cycles?
[18:17:47] <etla2> cradek: yes it's from fenn
[18:17:47] <fenn> heh it's just today's cvs head
[18:17:53] <jepler> SWPadnos: I don't know, I never figured that out. but my change was unneeded.
[18:17:58] <fenn> badly packaged
[18:18:05] <cradek> let me try to run stepper_mm
[18:18:11] <SWPadnos> jepler, so it works now, with the change reverted?
[18:18:34] <cradek> there is nothing wrong with stepper_mm in head
[18:18:48] <etla2> ok so how do I open the bz2 ?
[18:18:58] <jepler> etla2: use "j" instead of "z" in "tar xjvf".
[18:19:16] <etla2> thnx
[18:19:25] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: note new feature of freqgen
[18:20:54] <etla2> compiling...
[18:21:13] <fenn> crap i dont know how i screwed this up
[18:22:14] <jepler> we'll soon find out whether I screwed up too
[18:22:54] <etla2> fenn: no worries you helped me a lot to get to the point where it actually compiles under bdi4.38 (which was not trivial...)
[18:23:10] <fenn> it should have been trivial
[18:23:20] <cradek> etla2: have you considered switching to ubuntu? you would have had the package installed hours ago
[18:23:33] <fenn> are all bdi 4.38's the same?
[18:23:51] <Jymmm> jepler what's axis wrote in?
[18:23:56] <cradek> unless you want to help develop, there's no need for you to worry about cvs/compiling
[18:23:58] <fenn> i dont get why the wiki instructions would be wrong
[18:24:13] <fenn> besides mirrors being down and such
[18:24:14] <jepler> Jymmm: python
[18:24:24] <etla2> yes! now I'm running TESTING-2006-03-12, only message I get is 'iniFind is depreciated' but hopefully that is normal
[18:24:34] <jepler> etla2: yes, that message is typical
[18:24:35] <cradek> that's normal (and fixed now)
[18:24:57] <jepler> fenn: what problem did you run into with the wiki instructions?
[18:25:13] <jepler> fenn: I want that wiki page to be right, after all the time & hassle I went through installing bdi4.38 and making emc2 compile on it.
[18:25:26] <fenn> kernel headers and rtai headers werent there.. look at the log from this morning
[18:25:29] <etla2> and G64P0.1 works ! will have to feed it some nasty 3D curves and see what happens
[18:25:38] <fenn> logger_aj: bookmark
[18:25:38] <fenn> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-03-18#T18-25-38
[18:26:13] <etla2> jepler: sorry I did not make detailed notes... the irc log might be hard to decipher
[18:26:21] <jepler> you followed http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/?BDI-4_38_Compile_EMC2 ?
[18:26:25] <etla2> I had to make a symlink in /usr/src
[18:26:47] <etla2> jepler: yes up to a point, but then also the instructions in german (link in the log)
[18:27:09] <etla2> firstly my sources.list was not uptodate
[18:27:52] <fenn> i think these "wiki instruction" type pages should be turned into scripts
[18:28:22] <fenn> well, that would be nice
[18:29:14] <fenn> i guess there's a mild security problem with that though.. seeing how anyone can edit them
[18:29:31] <Jymmm> fenn MD5 is your friend
[18:29:38] <Jymmm> so is PGP/GPG
[18:29:55] <fenn> i dont see how that fixes anything
[18:29:59] <Jymmm> which I think cradek is doing
[18:30:18] <jepler> Jymmm: Nothing about cradek's initial script is signed, but his packages are.
[18:30:36] <Jymmm> jepler Well, easily enough to do then
[18:30:57] <Jymmm> but md5/sha1 should be fine I'd think
[18:33:05] <fenn> heh looking back on it i see where i screwed up
[18:33:47] <fenn> i g uess
[18:37:03] <fenn> configure looks in /usr/src/kernel-source- should you add KDIR=/usr/src/linux-headers-`uname-r` to the command line for ./configure as well as for make?
[18:37:30] <alex_joni> fenn: make should be enough
[18:37:47] <etla2> how do I make emc2 start with stepper_mm by default ?
[18:37:57] <cradek> etla2: man emc
[18:38:11] <jepler> etla2: you can create a script that runs ./scripts/emc configs/whatever/cheese.ini
[18:38:23] <etla2> No manual entry for emc
[18:38:32] <jepler> manpages aren't installed for run-in-place
[18:38:34] <cradek> argh
[18:38:53] <cradek> man docs/man/man1/emc.1
[18:38:58] <alex_joni> jepler: I like cheese.ini ;)
[18:39:16] <etla2> ok, so what about axis ? sudo apt-get build-dep emc2-axis gives me E: Build-Depends dependency for emc2-axis cannot be satisfied because the package libgl1-mesa-dev cannot
[18:40:22] <jepler> etla2: on bdi4 you can't use 'build-dep emc2-axis'; paul_c called his axis package python2.3-axis (I think) but I don't think it has correct build-deps listed anyway
[18:40:46] <jepler> etla2: if you followed the wiki.linuxcnc.org instructions, the packages you installed included the axis requirements.
[18:41:09] <fenn> alex_joni: welcome back..
[18:41:16] <jepler> and if you try cradek's package that won't work either, because the package names are different.
[18:42:19] <fenn> i still think the config picker should prompt the user to copy whatever sample he picks
[18:42:22] <etla2> ok, I'll download, untar and see what happens
[18:42:28] <fenn> like open a "save as" dialog box
[18:44:57] <etla2> yeah, now axis works too :)
[18:45:33] <etla2> I want to take screenshots of the backplotter with different G64PX.XX, how do I do that ?
[18:46:12] <jepler> the same way as you take screenshots of any other program
[18:46:21] <etla2> and in linux that would be ??
[18:46:22] <staggerlytom> ksnapshot
[18:46:57] <etla2> thanks
[18:47:22] <alex_joni> fenn: glad to be back ;)
[18:48:05] <etla2> hmm, axis does not get the mm<-> inches quite right...
[18:48:26] <etla2> if the idea is that the measurements should show the extents of part coded in g-code
[18:48:45] <jepler> etla2: which axis version? It seems like there's always "just one more" metric bug...
[18:48:53] <etla2> 1.1.3
[18:49:16] <jepler> does your program include a g20 or g21 directive at the beginning?
[18:49:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm lol @ jepler =)
[18:49:22] <etla2> I'm starting up with stepper_mm so it starts in G21 mode and I have no G21 in the g-code
[18:49:34] <jepler> OK. Put G21 in your file.
[18:49:36] <etla2> I can try putting G21 in the file... wait
[18:50:06] <etla2> yes, that solves it.
[18:52:02] <jepler> yay
[18:52:04] <etla2> hey! the G64PX.X really works ! great !
[18:52:18] <fenn> * fenn highfives cradek
[18:52:53] <staggerlytom> is the G20/21 flag available to Python from the settings structure?
[18:53:54] <alex_joni> staggerlytom: yes, but preview and live-plot happen at different moments in time, and the setting at that moments might differ
[18:54:35] <staggerlytom> they could chg according to code, but will defualt to world view
[18:55:08] <alex_joni> explain "default to world view"
[18:55:38] <staggerlytom> world view is Ray's term for the 'settings.blah structure in emc
[18:55:54] <staggerlytom> the present state of modal commands
[18:56:10] <jepler> the solution "put g21 in your file" seems like a good one to me.
[18:56:12] <alex_joni> ok, but present is fixed in time, as time moves on user can change G20 with G21
[18:56:33] <alex_joni> and then the already plotted preview won't match with the live preview
[18:59:24] <jepler> if it was not hard to do so, I'd show the user a little "your a moran" dialog if no g20 or g21 was detected in the file
[18:59:33] <staggerlytom> somehow etla had 20 in his world view, and had to chg it with G20 in a gcode file, the program worked correctly.
[18:59:43] <staggerlytom> jepler: I love user hosyile code :-)
[18:59:48] <staggerlytom> hostile
[19:00:22] <Jymmm> jepler: My contribution... "Yo stupid... is this thing imperial, metric, or klingon?!"
[19:00:53] <staggerlytom> nastier .. dont do anything (safe & mean )
[19:00:58] <Jymmm> jepler: If they're smartass and select klingon.... change the entire output of the GUI to klion
[19:01:02] <Jymmm> klingon
[19:01:04] <jepler> files that don't specify modal codes are buggy, IMO. You can't exchange them with others and you might not even be able to run them twice on your own machine and get the same results.
[19:01:26] <jepler> if axis sometimes doesn't get the preview plot to match what the real machine will do, that's just a manifestation of the bug in the nc-file, not a bug in axis.
[19:02:01] <jepler> (if it's because of an unspecified modal code)
[19:03:55] <staggerlytom> yes, it's not wrong, the system was told 1 = 1mm or 1= 1 inch. The system was somehow told G20 or G21 & responded correctly.
[19:04:01] <Jymmm> if g20/21 not detected, make the bg color something obnoxious
[19:04:13] <staggerlytom> it wasnt very apparent, thats all
[19:05:03] <staggerlytom> does axis show all the active modal codes?
[19:05:59] <staggerlytom> (tkemc did)
[19:09:19] <staggerlytom> you can jog the machine before you run a program, it better know how big 1 unit is when it wakes up.
[19:15:28] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[19:20:27] <staggerlytom> setup_pointer->active_g_codes[?] in interp_internal.hh holds the g20/g21 as soon as emc begins ( dunno index )
[19:21:58] <robin_> evening
[19:22:04] <staggerlytom> yo
[19:25:49] <robin_> robin_ is now known as robin_sz
[19:28:10] <jepler> staggerlytom: and then I'll get bug reports when some smartass loads a file, types g21, and runs it. "waaah, the preview plot doesn't match the backplot"
[19:28:23] <jepler> At some point, you tell them "you broke it; you get to keep both pieces"
[19:28:46] <rayh> -- keep all the pieces.
[19:29:31] <rayh> jepler, I just added the wizard-image to the side of a calibration screen. Thanks for that bit of work.
[19:31:30] <staggerlytom> the users have to know the robot does wht they tell it to do & they're responsible ( else we start in klingon until told otherwise )
[19:32:07] <dmessier> i jus got a COOL 12 V solar panel rig.. 13 W... it was cheap... charging my old truck withit as we speak
[19:32:36] <fenn> solar powered truck huh :)
[19:33:00] <dmessier> im dreamin of a solar powered EMC cnc set-up
[19:33:22] <Jymmm> dmessier any regulator on it?
[19:33:27] <dmessier> its actually a propane powered truck
[19:34:09] <dmessier> there must be but it looks like a pretty sealed unit.. im not busting it open YET
[19:34:36] <fenn> why would a solar panel have a regulator?
[19:34:37] <robin_sz> 13W?
[19:34:47] <dmessier> blue led wen it has output capacity... plug and charge... ; )
[19:34:56] <robin_sz> wow ... that means its almost enough to compensate for the battery self-discharge rate ;)
[19:35:05] <Jymmm> dmessier Heh, dont bet on it =) The regulator for mine is external and about $60
[19:35:25] <Jymmm> for the whimpy version
[19:35:50] <dmessier> well it says NOT to attempt to START the vehicle with it pluged in so maybe it dont...
[19:36:30] <dmessier> AUTOmotive self discharge is LOW
[19:36:33] <robin_sz> is that like the old warnings about turning off the radio before attempting to start the vehicle?
[19:36:48] <Jymmm> dmessier: oh, well totally different type of solar panel than mine. nm
[19:37:16] <Jymmm> you can drive over mine =)
[19:37:40] <dmessier> that was in case of any explosive domolishion or mining... sets off electric caps... at the wrong time
[19:37:54] <fenn> hmm 13 watt is not a whole lot.. you could probably just use a regular voltage regulator
[19:38:01] <dmessier> really...
[19:38:07] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[19:38:18] <robin_sz> the thing with solar is you dont want to waste any
[19:38:27] <dmessier> run over it i mean... ; )
[19:38:28] <Jymmm> fenn you want a PWM charger to keep your batteries up to par
[19:38:30] <robin_sz> the regulators tend to be clever litttle switch mode things
[19:38:41] <fenn> the only purpose of the regulator is to prevent the battery from overcharging
[19:38:50] <fenn> so who cares if you waste the power, what else are you going to do with it?
[19:39:01] <robin_sz> with 13w I think a truck battery would never overcharge
[19:39:08] <dmessier> put it into another battery fool
[19:39:24] <Jymmm> fenn because solar isn't consistant, the PWM is to prevent crystalization inside the battery
[19:39:43] <dmessier> i need to start it once... then the truck will last for the nex winter...
[19:39:50] <Jymmm> dmessier lol
[19:40:50] <dmessier> my dad has an inverter... bith built in control... im checkin them out to buy him a bunch
[19:41:12] <dmessier> 98.00 $ canuck buck
[19:41:51] <staggerlytom> the inverter is 100CA is near 400W, for an idea of power per buck
[19:42:04] <dmessier> i played with solar cells in the '80 s 350.00 $ for 1.5 v and 300 milli amps
[19:42:39] <dmessier> im an idiot.. i bought 3
[19:42:44] <fenn> wow you could run a calculator on it
[19:43:18] <dmessier> yup that was if i didnt use the big one with the BRIGHT red led's
[19:43:56] <dmessier> ive dreamed of a solar power society for YRS
[19:44:03] <Jymmm> http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/SunGuard/index.shtml and also click on the "WHY PWM" link too
[19:44:29] <dmessier> now im over it.. and onto gravity powered electricity..
[19:45:02] <Jymmm> I really need to get one of those too =(
[19:45:09] <fenn> i dont really understand why the voltage would change with sun brightness
[19:45:15] <fenn> the bandgap is the same..
[19:45:26] <robin_sz> trying to turn sunlight into electricity is usally a waste of time ...
[19:45:34] <fenn> everything is a waste of time
[19:45:47] <robin_sz> often its better to try and use it directly for say, heat, or light
[19:45:52] <fenn> dmessier: what would be really neat is electricity powered gravity
[19:46:33] <dmessier> what would power it??
[19:46:40] <robin_sz> elves
[19:46:41] <fenn> solar power ;)
[19:46:55] <fenn> plenty of sun in outer space
[19:46:59] <dmessier> the chicken and egg scenario comes to mind
[19:47:17] <robin_sz> use solar power to cook the chicken. problem solved
[19:47:33] <staggerlytom> solar? i just came across a community in Taos http://www.earthship.org/ ( expensive hippy reTIREment development)
[19:47:34] <fenn> which came first? the rooster did.
[19:47:39] <dmessier> lets get the easy one down first.. the next is a logical consecuence
[19:48:37] <staggerlytom> get it? reTIREment ( solar houses built outta tires )
[19:49:11] <dmessier> i have the basic design and initial prototype scale model in the works.... but im NOT sur the planet is ready for it
[19:49:35] <dmessier> there ARE dirre ramifications
[19:49:52] <fenn> they give patents for the dumbest things
[19:50:06] <fenn> dmessier: i'm ready.. sock it to me
[19:50:20] <dmessier> but not the tings im dealing with
[19:50:27] <fenn> (translation.. expose your pride and joy so i can rip it apart :)
[19:50:30] <robin_sz> mmm
[19:50:37] <robin_sz> * robin_sz makes aprediction
[19:50:53] <robin_sz> dmessier, was the knowledge youhave given to you by greys?
[19:50:59] <dmessier> over unity is a subject the US patent office confiscates
[19:51:23] <dmessier> my twin brother told me it
[19:51:24] <fenn> oh i was talking about "PWM technology" solar power marketing BS
[19:51:38] <robin_sz> not that BS
[19:51:43] <fenn> you can't patent a switching regulator!
[19:51:52] <robin_sz> course you can
[19:52:02] <dmessier> sure
[19:52:04] <robin_sz> why ever not?
[19:52:10] <fenn> hum. today i'm going to patent the 555 timer
[19:52:14] <K4ts> dmessier: hello
[19:52:14] <robin_sz> its not the regulator ....
[19:52:23] <K4ts> hello
[19:52:25] <dmessier> allo
[19:52:28] <robin_sz> its the novel use of combining it with a solar panel
[19:52:36] <Jymmm> fenn: http://www.morningstarcorp.com/support/Why-PWM/why-pwm-2.shtml
[19:52:39] <fenn> patents are stupid
[19:52:51] <robin_sz> yes ....
[19:53:07] <robin_sz> mostly they are
[19:53:07] <dmessier> you can do that... im onto the gravitational-electrical generator
[19:53:50] <dmessier> and it SHOULD be public domain
[19:53:56] <Jymmm> dmessier: You're in /near the boonies with some giant hole in the ground, huh?
[19:54:06] <fenn> mel's hole
[19:54:14] <dmessier> been there... donr that..
[19:54:18] <fenn> hahahaha
[19:54:20] <Jymmm> lol
[19:54:31] <dmessier> 8370 feet
[19:54:44] <dmessier> we sank it to bottom...
[19:55:03] <robin_sz> you need to team up with my mad friend who is going to make a fortune with electricity from deep water
[19:55:06] <fenn> still you gotta admit that's pretty deep
[19:55:07] <dmessier> 16' x 40'
[19:55:38] <dmessier> plumb within .75 inches
[19:56:21] <dmessier> 1.5 miles or there abouts... i was in high school workin' afternoons
[19:56:26] <robin_sz> brilliant plan he has ... lower a container deep into the ocean, one-way valve allows water to enter compressing the gas inside, bring to surface, use stored pressure to drive an engine/turnine thing .. make a big chian with thousands of containers going up and down, bingo free energy
[19:56:42] <robin_sz> he is of course an idiot, but apart from that ...
[19:57:03] <dmessier> not the plan ROBIN
[19:57:18] <dmessier> but i am of course an idiot
[19:57:42] <robin_sz> well, I hop yours has better physics thna his :)
[19:58:00] <dmessier> drop a magnet thru a coil of wires... what comes out the wire???
[19:58:12] <Jymmm> guts and stuff
[19:58:14] <robin_sz> electricity ...
[19:58:17] <fenn> magic smoke
[19:58:33] <robin_sz> so waht?
[19:58:37] <dmessier> drop it a long way fast.. what do you get
[19:58:45] <robin_sz> lots of electricity
[19:58:50] <robin_sz> so what?
[19:59:56] <dmessier> turn it around and pull it up by dropping a heavier on on the other side attatched.. and PUlling one while droping the other
[20:00:19] <dmessier> to double it up...
[20:00:22] <robin_sz> and eventually the hole fills up with magnets?
[20:00:37] <Jymmm> you eventually have heavy weights in the bottom of a 8000 foot hole
[20:00:41] <dmessier> so what.. ITS FREE... who's the idiot here..
[20:01:11] <Jymmm> dmessier how wide is this hole?
[20:01:11] <dmessier> no the magnets come up... on the next stroke
[20:01:12] <robin_sz> ok, why not just put rocks in a bucket on a string, use the string to spin a generaor
[20:01:32] <robin_sz> and what stays in the bottom of the hole then
[20:01:36] <dmessier> 16' x 40' - 4 compartments
[20:01:44] <fenn> how bout this.. you build a space elevator and use the energy of the earth turning to make electricity.. sound good enuf?
[20:02:04] <fenn> let's do it!
[20:02:18] <dmessier> somebodys working on that now... your too late
[20:02:20] <Jymmm> I still like the solar generator inthe desert; generats over a million watts
[20:02:36] <fenn> i'd rather work on electricity powered gravity
[20:02:55] <fenn> maybe i'll just bask in the mind control waves and do nothing
[20:02:59] <robin_sz> I wonder just how much energy you could get from lowering stuff down holes .. I guess there is some to be had if you can buy holes cheap enough
[20:03:33] <dmessier> the parabolic one in the ARIZONA deasert.. i have the prototye and plane from 1981 at mom's home for
[20:03:40] <Jymmm> buying the hole is cheap, buying the doughtnut the hole came from is another story.
[20:03:55] <dmessier> all but 1 set of prints....
[20:04:20] <fenn> let's just drop asteroids into your hole with magnets attached
[20:04:26] <dmessier> ord holea are cheap
[20:04:29] <fenn> hell don't even need a hole
[20:04:30] <dmessier> old
[20:05:04] <dmessier> just a 20 m run will work with stagered cylinders
[20:05:20] <dmessier> 30 m better
[20:05:45] <robin_sz> cylinders?
[20:05:50] <fenn> so where do you get the heavy stuff to drop down the hole?
[20:05:57] <dmessier> i want to build home units... buried in the back yard energy plant for life
[20:05:59] <robin_sz> rocks from the top
[20:06:06] <dmessier> h2o
[20:06:18] <robin_sz> and it evaporates at the bottom?
[20:06:36] <dmessier> ita all about differential in the 2 masses
[20:06:52] <fenn> i think you'd need a lot of water
[20:07:04] <dmessier> you pump it back up its a closed loop generaing system
[20:07:06] <robin_sz> yeah ... you are lowering heavy things down a hole and collecting the PE as electricity ...
[20:07:17] <dmessier> no its heavy
[20:07:19] <fenn> how do you pump it back up and not waste all the electricity?
[20:07:32] <robin_sz> um ... and the pumping up takes exactly the same amount, less the pump losses
[20:07:40] <robin_sz> so you end up putting energy in ...
[20:08:13] <fenn> a neat idea would be to extract the heat from the ground in the middle of winter to boil a volatile liquid
[20:08:29] <fenn> and run a turbine with that.. then do it in reverse in summer
[20:08:34] <dmessier> you are lowerind and raising one too... they BOTHE have the same velocity and coils to pass thru... therefore the same voltage potential
[20:08:48] <robin_sz> ummm
[20:08:54] <fenn> sorry dmessier
[20:09:05] <dmessier> but only 1 has h2o in it
[20:09:06] <fenn> google "perpetual motion machine"
[20:09:26] <robin_sz> dmessier, ok so the hole fills up with water ...
[20:09:36] <dmessier> pls dont annoy me... im one up... and have seen it work
[20:09:55] <robin_sz> no, you THINK you have
[20:10:10] <dmessier> the model is on a trailer.. no pics for various reasons
[20:10:31] <robin_sz> the main one being "not wanting to be ridiculed2 ?
[20:10:47] <robin_sz> that is SO not going to work ...
[20:10:47] <dmessier> you ever seen a water clock work well
[20:10:57] <robin_sz> yes
[20:11:13] <dmessier> pls...
[20:11:39] <dmessier> i wont burst YOUR bubble... you dont burst mine
[20:12:25] <robin_sz> well, as you like ... you shouls talk to my friend about his containers to the bottom of the ocean idea .. its the same as yours, but in revers
[20:12:27] <dmessier> but remember this conversation when someone takes over the planet with this..
[20:13:04] <dmessier> it might be me... or my sons
[20:13:45] <fenn> dmessier you've made me even more depressed than i already was
[20:13:51] <robin_sz> I keep trying to explain to him why it wont work, but his physics is too weak to understand
[20:14:18] <robin_sz> wait .. I rememebr ..
[20:14:27] <robin_sz> he has an even madder idea too ...
[20:14:36] <robin_sz> free power from .... CARS
[20:14:48] <fenn> like a little windmill on the bumper?
[20:14:57] <robin_sz> no ..
[20:15:06] <dmessier> my physics is above yours ned...pls lets NOT go there i like you guys
[20:15:14] <robin_sz> embed tiny hydraulic pistons in the road surface
[20:15:26] <anonimasu> hm
[20:15:27] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:16:25] <robin_sz> so barking mad I cant even begin to contemplate that idea ...
[20:16:34] <robin_sz> that wont be "free" energy at all
[20:16:36] <anonimasu> hey robin_sz how's stuff?
[20:17:07] <fenn> there are so many ways to get energy besides oil/coal/nuclear that don't require breaking any laws of physics
[20:17:36] <dmessier> the power will be reaped from gravity... I wil NOT get a bill from the gravity cops... its free
[20:17:48] <robin_sz> you will get a big hole full of water
[20:17:54] <robin_sz> its IS free
[20:18:01] <dmessier> i DIS agree
[20:18:01] <robin_sz> but the hole will fill up eventually
[20:18:24] <fenn> even if it doesnt fill up you have to get the water from somewhere
[20:18:33] <robin_sz> well, thats OK, rain happens
[20:18:35] <anonimasu> hm
[20:18:46] <robin_sz> and if you could evaporate with sunlight at the bottom
[20:18:50] <dmessier> pls.. im dealind with mL of differential...
[20:18:51] <robin_sz> thats OK too
[20:19:35] <robin_sz> but .. it will fill up .. you lower one, but then you have to empty it out ...
[20:19:56] <gene> How about getting it from the 36 cubic miles of Anterctica that melted last year? TANSTAAFL filks
[20:20:13] <gene> s/filks/folks
[20:20:57] <rayh> phone
[20:20:58] <fenn> i wonder why there's been no research into artificial isotope production
[20:21:30] <fenn> something with beta or alpha decay of a reasonably short half life
[20:21:45] <dmessier> i have a self raising staiway desighned but its too much work to warrent not raping what were taking..
[20:22:01] <fenn> like that SF story about radiological power
[20:22:11] <fenn> er, s/power/weapons/
[20:22:58] <dmessier> power ONLY.. no weapon generation in my org any more.. too cut throat
[20:23:09] <fenn> technology's technology
[20:23:15] <fenn> how you use it is another matter
[20:23:20] <anonimasu> yep
[20:23:29] <robin_sz> nuclear is the way to go
[20:23:34] <robin_sz> or biomass
[20:24:00] <fenn> artificial gravity dammit
[20:24:05] <Jymmm> http://news.mongabay.com/2006/0209-solar.html
[20:24:06] <gene> I agree, the problem is disposal and that makes wind rather inviting
[20:24:31] <dmessier> right but sell in an illegal machine tool to sweden... that ends up in Russia.. and gets discovered bcz the sub surfaces in NY harbor that NOT god PR
[20:24:38] <fenn> otec is actually a viable renewable resource, but it requires a huge up-front investment to work at all
[20:24:51] <gene> Solar costs too much in environmental damages making the cells
[20:25:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[20:25:03] <robin_sz> nods
[20:25:18] <fenn> solar is all done wrong
[20:25:23] <anonimasu> dmessier: that's not right
[20:25:25] <gene> yup
[20:25:31] <fenn> just focus some mirrors on a boiler.. sheesh
[20:25:31] <robin_sz> I suspect a solar cell takes far more energy to make than it ever produces
[20:25:37] <dmessier> thats why GRAVITY rulez.... : )
[20:25:43] <gene> there ya go
[20:25:45] <robin_sz> indeed
[20:25:47] <anonimasu> lol
[20:25:52] <robin_sz> until yer hole fills up with water :)
[20:25:56] <fenn> * fenn pats everyone on the back
[20:26:06] <anonimasu> dmessier: gravity is a one way thing..
[20:26:15] <anonimasu> dmessier: there's no such thing as negative gravity..
[20:26:21] <fenn> wanna bet?
[20:26:32] <dmessier> what will you say when the proto type runs and DOESNT fill up the hole..??
[20:26:33] <anonimasu> fenn: atleast not when standing on a large mass..
[20:26:35] <gene> rather like time. The major problem is its speed of propagation.
[20:27:04] <fenn> dmessier: what's the hole for again?
[20:27:05] <robin_sz> dmessier, I wont say anyting .. because it wont work the hole will fill eventually
[20:27:16] <dmessier> you dont fly the aircraft i fly i LOVE and have felt ANTI gravity MANY times
[20:27:34] <robin_sz> no, you havent
[20:27:35] <anonimasu> that's not antigravity
[20:27:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:27:42] <robin_sz> I fly
[20:27:47] <anonimasu> that's just canceling the gravity by applying force in the right vector...
[20:27:52] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:27:55] <anonimasu> or whatever you'd say..
[20:27:57] <gene> yup
[20:28:00] <robin_sz> but .. the gravity is still there
[20:28:04] <anonimasu> way off, from negative gravity..
[20:28:04] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:28:34] <dmessier> and i have a mechanism to do just the same
[20:28:37] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigravity
[20:28:58] <robin_sz> dmessier, now, I know you have been talking to the greys again
[20:29:17] <anonimasu> dmessier: explain it please
[20:29:50] <dmessier> its not anti-gravity... its gravity exploitation at its finst degree..
[20:30:44] <robin_sz> anonimasu, two containers, with magnets attached ... long coils, fill container one with water, it goes down, coils generat electricity as magnet goes past
[20:31:09] <robin_sz> emtpy comntainer 1 at bottom of hole, put water in containr 2 at top of hole.
[20:31:15] <robin_sz> process reverses
[20:31:29] <anonimasu> yeah, but how do you get the water there?
[20:31:36] <robin_sz> you could just put them on a chain, and use chain to drive a generator
[20:31:43] <gene> So tell us, you have to control gravity in order to use it in a manner that can extract energy from it. The problem is control since we cannot
[20:31:58] <robin_sz> eventually the hole fills with water and you have to wait for it to drain
[20:32:35] <anonimasu> calculate how much energy you will make from it..
[20:32:38] <robin_sz> its just useing the PE of the pwater to make energy .. nothing new, hydro power stations do it all day long
[20:32:43] <anonimasu> yep
[20:32:51] <dmessier> it IS a reversible generator.... imagine a single beam scale.. replace pivot point with wheel
[20:32:53] <Jymmm> I have a dumb question... how would you define the difference between a fixture and a jig?
[20:33:03] <robin_sz> it just relies on having some wate at a height, and some place low to dump it ...
[20:33:07] <anonimasu> you are better putting a bouy in the sea
[20:33:14] <robin_sz> right
[20:33:14] <anonimasu> and let the waves generate power for you
[20:33:15] <dmessier> NOT control... exploit..
[20:33:29] <anonimasu> that'll work..
[20:33:40] <fenn> jymmm a fixture is bolted to the machine, and a jig is not necessarily?
[20:34:04] <Jymmm> fenn I mean explaining the difference between the two to a layman.
[20:34:17] <fenn> i dont think there's a big difference
[20:34:30] <gene> Gravity, the only known force we cannot control and which rather handily exceeds the speed of light by hundreds of orders..
[20:34:31] <dmessier> one is hand held one isnt
[20:34:32] <anonimasu> a jig/fixture is the same thing..
[20:34:56] <Jymmm> dmessier which one is hand held?
[20:34:59] <robin_sz> gene, : faster than light?
[20:35:05] <fenn> a jig
[20:35:20] <Jymmm> fenn so a dovetail jig is handheld?
[20:35:22] <anonimasu> atelast as far as I understand it..
[20:35:28] <robin_sz> mmm
[20:35:30] <fenn> i said "not necessarily bolted to the machine"
[20:35:35] <dmessier> a jig holds a part ofr a skied operator... a fixtur clamps something for a trained monkey
[20:35:53] <Jymmm> fenn I know, I'm just trying to come up with a layman's definition between the two
[20:35:56] <anonimasu> hm, so what's the difference?
[20:36:00] <anonimasu> dmessier: ?
[20:36:11] <fenn> * fenn is a skilled monkey
[20:36:29] <fenn> gimme a figsture!
[20:36:41] <robin_sz> for clamping monkeys?
[20:36:47] <fenn> * fenn throws poop at dmessier
[20:36:53] <Jymmm> I'm thinking jig: holds material during the fabrication process, or during the cutting/removal of material. Where a fixture could be something as simple as an embroidery hoop.
[20:36:54] <dmessier> jigs reqire operator intervention... fixtures bolt to machines
[20:37:17] <dmessier> other way around
[20:37:37] <Jymmm> dmessier then that defeats the term dovetail jig which is bolted to the table
[20:37:43] <gene> yippers. If we plug ANY propagation delay into any formula for celestial mechanics, it all falls apart and we wouldn't be here because the earth would have piraled into the sun 4 billion years ago.
[20:37:58] <gene> s/piraled/spiraled
[20:38:14] <fenn> gene why's that?
[20:38:26] <fenn> where does the energy go?
[20:38:32] <dmessier> garbage in garbage out gene
[20:38:40] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power
[20:38:50] <gene> Because the earth is ttracted to a spot where the sun WAS 8 minuites ago.
[20:38:56] <dmessier> we steal it us few gravity GODS
[20:39:06] <fenn> so?
[20:39:11] <gene> If it was atracted to where we SEE it now, poof
[20:39:15] <dmessier> we get it all... you should join us
[20:39:56] <gene> I have a link I'll post in a few when I find it that says this far better than I can.
[20:40:03] <fenn> ok thanks
[20:41:32] <gene> http://www.ldolphin.org/vanFlandern/gravityspeed.html
[20:42:30] <dmessier> my wife was right again.... nobody wants to listen to the crazy guy...
[20:43:00] <fenn> dmessier: it's not that, it's just we've heard it too many times before and tried it and tried again and it didn't work
[20:43:28] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[20:43:33] <robin_sz> its just physics
[20:43:40] <gene> And I didn't use THAT word either, cause sure as heck, somebody would use it on me... :)
[20:43:40] <robin_sz> yo cant beat the laws of physics
[20:43:44] <dmessier> not MY way.. i'll do it alone.... and WIN alone too
[20:44:05] <dmessier> and i'll teach you som physics too
[20:44:31] <fenn> dmessier: well, when it doesn't work, dont give up
[20:44:37] <gene> I've seen a perpetual motion machine once, impressive, but non-functional
[20:44:38] <robin_sz> ideed
[20:44:39] <dmessier> no english
[20:44:50] <robin_sz> dont give up ...
[20:44:57] <robin_sz> at least, not until the hole is full
[20:45:01] <robin_sz> ;)
[20:45:11] <dmessier> i cant... to many yrs of dreams
[20:45:34] <dmessier> and it wont fill up ...fyi
[20:45:48] <gene> jmkasunich, are you about?
[20:45:50] <fenn> hrm so general relativity says gravity travels at infinite speed?
[20:46:11] <robin_sz> dmessier, tell me then what happens to the water when it leaves the container at the bottom of the hole?
[20:46:38] <dmessier> your reading the RIGHT stuff...
[20:47:12] <gene> I'm not sure what general relativity says about it, thats always been a bit fuzzy because I don't think AE understoood that either.
[20:47:47] <dmessier> proportionatly to the mass it took down its miniscule... it require VREY little power to pump it to the top again...
[20:48:00] <robin_sz> sigh ....
[20:48:01] <gene> And nobody here has had time to read that posted address yet.
[20:48:36] <dmessier> AE did so.. understand it... he knew we couldnt handle it
[20:49:04] <robin_sz> dmessier, look its very simple .. the energy you can get from it , at 100% efficiency, is equal to the energy to pump it back up again ... assuming your pump is not 100% efficient, youwill actually have to pay to make this thing run
[20:49:58] <dmessier> what about the pipe making power with NO H2O in it???
[20:50:24] <dmessier> doesnt cost a thing to run...
[20:50:33] <dmessier> its attatched
[20:51:02] <robin_sz> no .. it is balanced out by the pip on the other side ...
[20:51:25] <robin_sz> the only power you can get is equal to the mass of the water times its height x g
[20:51:41] <robin_sz> sorry, energy, not power
[20:51:54] <gene> minus plumbing losses, which can be considerable in poor designs
[20:51:59] <robin_sz> exactly
[20:52:48] <robin_sz> the two pipe balance each other in weight. you fill one with water and as it lowers you can extract that energy ..
[20:53:11] <robin_sz> in a 100% pefect system you could extrat exactly the enrgy required to pupm the same water back to the top
[20:53:16] <robin_sz> in a PERFECT system,
[20:53:28] <robin_sz> in practice, youd have to pay to run the pump
[20:54:01] <fenn> gene: look up "pioneer anomaly"
[20:54:37] <gene> about 120% of the energy you got out of the water when it went the other way. I have. Not enough data yet.
[20:54:51] <robin_sz> reminds me of the "magnetic staircase" perpetual motion thing ...
[20:55:11] <robin_sz> gently sloping ramp ... very powerful magnet at the end
[20:55:18] <gene> yeah fortunes have been spent pursueing that holy grail
[20:55:19] <dmessier> sory for bothering you
[20:55:28] <robin_sz> ball bearing rolls along the ramp towards the magnet
[20:56:06] <gene> and since the swuare law applies, it sticks to the magnet rather smartly at the end
[20:56:12] <robin_sz> at then end it drops down ... (you could extract energy as is does) and round to the front of the ramp, where it ascends again ...
[20:56:12] <dmessier> mine too.. and i've found it.. but the convincing is obviosly going to be difficult
[20:56:23] <gene> s/swuare/square
[20:56:24] <robin_sz> not if the gap is just right ...
[20:56:42] <robin_sz> this has been shown to work too
[20:56:58] <dmessier> l8r
[20:57:11] <fenn> good luck dmessier
[20:57:34] <fenn> proving me wrong will be the best thing that ever happened to me
[20:57:54] <gene> Theres a Nobel Prize for a good answer
[20:58:09] <robin_sz> hehhe
[20:58:24] <robin_sz> the magnet perpetual motion thing DOES work ...
[20:58:37] <robin_sz> errm ... for a while ;)
[20:58:43] <gene> Now that we've got that settled, are there actually any emc users here today?
[20:58:55] <fenn> heh
[20:59:02] <robin_sz> any what?
[20:59:08] <fenn> emc what's that?
[20:59:24] <SWPadnos> nobody here can afford that kind of storage
[20:59:25] <dmessier> lol
[20:59:41] <fenn> oh the tape archive thingy
[20:59:41] <gene> cept you of course, I can't tell from the members list FF Chatzilla gives me. Hi Steve
[20:59:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz was supposed to go to NYC today
[20:59:50] <gene> theats amanda
[20:59:51] <SWPadnos> hi gene
[20:59:56] <dmessier> THE control system for ALL things
[21:00:02] <gene> thats amanda, I use it
[21:00:14] <robin_sz> I have tried to set up amanda from time to time
[21:00:24] <robin_sz> too complicated to run reliably for me
[21:00:52] <gene> But I gave up on tape and use vtapes now, quicker & more dependable than my DDS2 changers ever were.
[21:01:04] <Jymmm> A jig is a handy tool, in woodworking and metalworking an aid designed to control the motion of a tool or workpiece. A fixture is a object to hold workpiece firmly fixed in place. (I'm not happy about the definition of 'fixture', but it seems to imply a jig will have motion involved, but a fixture will be stationary).
[21:01:15] <gene> Piece of cake Robin
[21:01:23] <robin_sz> really?
[21:01:37] <SWPadnos> I've found that all tape backup software is more difficult than I think it needs to be
[21:01:41] <SWPadnos> but I may be missing something
[21:01:44] <gene> Yup once you get it working that is.
[21:01:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos tar
[21:01:53] <robin_sz> i have run it in the past, but never been convinced I could get back to where I needed to be in a disaster situation
[21:02:14] <SWPadnos> it's the >> tape_drive or the "which tape is the version I want to restore on" thing that gets you
[21:02:22] <robin_sz> all the rsh stuff was complicated and potentially insecure too
[21:02:32] <gene> Amanda uses either tar or dump, and frankly its the hassle of the darned tape drive that makes amanda difficult
[21:02:37] <SWPadnos> robin brings up the only valid point - how do you recover what you've so happily stored away
[21:02:55] <SWPadnos> vtape uses HDs as virtual tapes or something?
[21:03:02] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you perform recovery tests as part of the maintance process.
[21:03:02] <robin_sz> these days, I just use rsync
[21:03:21] <robin_sz> "blessed are the paranoid, for they test their backups"
[21:03:30] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, yep. it's the tape managers and backup schedulers that seem more user-hostile than I'd like
[21:03:38] <gene> from vtapes, extremely easy as its a random access file on a hard drive, yes from time to time
[21:03:40] <Jymmm> been burned too many times by shitty backups
[21:03:54] <robin_sz> discs are so cheap now
[21:04:07] <SWPadnos> the thing people forget is that in the event of a real problem, you start from a blank HD
[21:04:08] <robin_sz> RAID + remote rsync can be enough
[21:04:18] <gene> amanda is designed to do it her way, and if yopu let her do it her way, all you need to do is read the email she sends you when she's done.
[21:04:26] <SWPadnos> it's the process of getting back from square 1 that's important
[21:04:30] <Jymmm> hdd are FAR cheaper than tape - tape back bastards arent' keeping up with HDD technology
[21:04:46] <SWPadnos> HDD are more expensive, if you consider the total amount of storage
[21:04:48] <gene> I can do that from a bare metal install
[21:04:51] <robin_sz> tape is good for offsite storage ..
[21:05:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos have you seen the price tag of tapes these days?
[21:05:12] <gene> when 300GB is only $129 at CC?
[21:05:12] <robin_sz> but as I said, with rsync -e ssh offsite is only a network connection anyway
[21:05:23] <gene> Thats a 5 year seagate
[21:05:30] <SWPadnos> can you switch hard drives while the machine is on?
[21:05:35] <robin_sz> yes
[21:05:40] <Jymmm> Hell RAID5 3 setups of HDDs
[21:05:42] <gene> That aso works well Robin, we do it at the tv station
[21:05:43] <cradek> robin_sz: when you screw up your files and your rsync runs, you're screwed
[21:05:46] <SWPadnos> can you span a backup set across several drives?
[21:05:46] <Jymmm> RAID5
[21:05:56] <robin_sz> cradek, true
[21:06:04] <cradek> robin_sz: that's not a backup
[21:06:08] <SWPadnos> raid5 doesn't help for the backup HD set
[21:06:18] <gene> sure it does
[21:06:20] <SWPadnos> unless you want to switch out several drives simultaneously
[21:06:24] <cradek> robin_sz: it might be really convenient in addition to a (slower) backup
[21:06:28] <robin_sz> cradek, we run a tar job, incremental to a partition on a spare disc, and then cycle through full and partials ..
[21:06:34] <SWPadnos> it all depends on the security level you want.
[21:06:55] <SWPadnos> if you want to protect against the house burning down, then having "hot" hard drives with backups, in the computer, doesn't help
[21:06:58] <cradek> robin_sz: combined with offset I hope
[21:07:00] <robin_sz> cradek, thus we get a remote offsite mirror, plus about a month to spot something we lost
[21:07:01] <bpmw> Afternoon guys!
[21:07:11] <SWPadnos> hi bpmw
[21:07:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos offsite storage of the HDD's
[21:07:25] <cradek> offset? offsite
[21:07:30] <gene> we run an rsync job to a different subdir on the raid (4 drives 1 hot spare) each of the 5 workdays, works great for recovery too.
[21:07:39] <SWPadnos> sure, and now you're buying drives to stick in safe deposit boxes
[21:07:42] <robin_sz> right
[21:07:43] <cradek> backups are hard to get right...
[21:07:46] <Jymmm> cradek I said offsite =)
[21:07:48] <anonimasu> gene: what kind of raid do you run?
[21:07:55] <robin_sz> we wont do tape backups
[21:07:55] <cradek> (I still use tapes for everything)
[21:08:10] <anonimasu> we do that at work too
[21:08:11] <anonimasu> :9
[21:08:12] <anonimasu> :)
[21:08:13] <robin_sz> I have too many examples of write-only DAT tapes
[21:08:14] <anonimasu> hdd's arent reliable
[21:08:35] <cradek> robin_sz: I have better luck with DLT, but they are expensive
[21:08:41] <anonimasu> especially deskstar/deathstar drives..
[21:08:43] <Jymmm> tapes strech, wear out, get dirty, are slow.
[21:08:48] <gene> Jim Hines set that one up, right now its about 2TB of drives, 3 online, one hot spare, all in one box with lots of fans on the drives
[21:08:53] <SWPadnos> HD's are mechanical, and die
[21:08:55] <anonimasu> um..
[21:08:59] <SWPadnos> especially when you move them around a lot
[21:08:59] <robin_sz> I have used DLT .. they are sorta fine until the little bit on the end goes snap
[21:08:59] <cradek> I recently restored a bunch of backups made in 1983
[21:09:01] <anonimasu> Jymmm: wear out?
[21:09:09] <gene> So are tapes, moreso in my expoerience
[21:09:15] <cradek> to HP brand QIC-02 tapes
[21:09:19] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I didnt think anyone were stupid enough to reuse them
[21:09:22] <cradek> every single tape was still good
[21:09:26] <bpmw> Hey guys, with this new version of Emc2 I got from cradek's website, what config should I edit for steppers/2 parports/simulated limits.hal?
[21:09:28] <robin_sz> wow
[21:09:28] <Jymmm> anonimasu yeah, most places recycle their tapes.
[21:09:41] <robin_sz> cradek, that was low density stuff .. back when it used to work
[21:09:41] <gene> Those would be IF the drive hasn't upchucked
[21:09:52] <cradek> bpmw: you should start with the stepper config, copy it to your home directory to modify it
[21:10:02] <anonimasu> we do that but there's a limit to how many times..
[21:10:03] <Jymmm> anonimasu sad, but true.
[21:10:10] <gene> The last one of those I had always had to spend the holidays in Oklahoma City
[21:10:11] <cradek> bpmw: mkdir ~/emc2/configs; cp -R /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper ~/emc2/configs
[21:10:59] <cradek> robin_sz: true, but I still think tape is the best bet for putting in the safe deposit box and restoring in 20 years
[21:11:06] <bpmw> cradek, it doesn't seem to have provisions for 2 parports and simulated limits.
[21:11:07] <robin_sz> probably
[21:11:20] <cradek> bpmw: you'll have to modify the parport config
[21:11:33] <cradek> bpmw: you just set soft limits in the .ini file and they work fine
[21:11:35] <robin_sz> I must set up an encrypted backup some time
[21:12:00] <fenn> precious precious data
[21:12:06] <anonimasu> hm ask yourself how much data you've got that's precious in 20 years :)
[21:12:16] <gene> for my emc2 install the rsync line looks like this:rsync -avz --delete --password-file=/etc/rsync/coyote.elladene root@ /home/gene/emc2
[21:12:23] <bpmw> cradek, ok thanks. And how hard is it to set up linear encoders in Emc2?
[21:12:31] <fenn> i've got some rockin drawings from elementary school
[21:12:38] <cradek> bpmw: I don't know about that one
[21:12:39] <anonimasu> yep
[21:12:50] <Jymmm> Mechanical storage (hdd, tape, optical) seems to be the worse, I'm not sure the archive life of things like CF and USB storage though.
[21:13:01] <gene> 20 years, thats now on its third drive, downstairs on my TRS-80 Color Computer 3's 1GB seagate Hawk
[21:13:02] <cradek> Jymmm: nobody is sure yet
[21:13:14] <bpmw> cradek, ok thanks.
[21:13:17] <fenn> bpmw: linear encoders and backlash dont mix very well
[21:13:52] <bpmw> fenn, What do you mean?
[21:14:26] <cradek> I understand any slop between the motor and encoder leads to oscillation
[21:14:27] <gene> During my years of working in and on os9, I made about 120 megs of stuff, some of which is still in use
[21:14:28] <fenn> the motor's turning but the encoder isnt moving, so it cranks up the power
[21:14:28] <robin_sz> if you use linear encoders for feedback, and ther is any backlash in the mechanics, you will have lots of sever control problems
[21:14:30] <Jymmm> Oh, anyone want a free (Windows) camera media recovery utility? even will recover deleted RAW/NEF images too
[21:14:33] <fenn> eek
[21:15:52] <gene> Humm, some of the stuff I delete had better STAY deleted.. :)
[21:15:52] <bpmw> robin_sz, What is sever control?
[21:16:13] <robin_sz> severe I meant
[21:16:16] <anonimasu> brb
[21:16:18] <gene> s/sever/servo?
[21:16:19] <anonimasu> watching discovery
[21:16:20] <robin_sz> "very bad"
[21:16:20] <anonimasu> :)
[21:17:09] <Jymmm> gene: I had deleted all the images. Took more photos, then got corrupted. This utility was able to recover the corupted images, plus the ones I deleted too.
[21:17:47] <bpmw> robin_sz, Do you mean spindle would oscilate up and down trying to compensate for any lash?
[21:18:46] <gene> Thats the general idea. Encoders should be ON the motors, and then backlash can theoreticly be controlled.
[21:18:47] <Jymmm> gene: Works very nice... http://www.softwarepatch.com/software/smartrecovery.html
[21:18:57] <bpmw> I hope thats not the case It cost me $1000.00
[21:19:02] <gene> I presume thats a winderz utility?
[21:19:09] <Jymmm> gene yep
[21:19:30] <gene> no winderz allowed on the premises, all linux here
[21:20:07] <gene> Your corruption error is a fat filesystem error that no one has fixed in 20 years
[21:20:59] <Jymmm> gene: Well, I can't change the camera file format.
[21:20:59] <gene> When extracting files from the camera, ALWAYS start at the end of the dir tree and work backwards. That works fine 100% of the time.
[21:22:17] <gene> Don't need to. The bug is that if a whole sector of a directory has been deleted, the file system stops searching beyond that sector of data, and assumes its all free for re-use.
[21:22:23] <fenn> now microsoft is suing everyone for infringing on their FAT filesystem patent..
[21:22:42] <gene> So you take files off the end of the directory and never hit that bug. :)
[21:23:07] <jmkasunich> gene: I'm about now, but not for long (only until my fingers thaw out)
[21:23:07] <gene> And has been tossed out of court in several jurisdictions
[21:23:30] <gene> Oh shop cold like mine John?
[21:24:32] <gene> Its in the low 40's here, a bit cold for my diabetic feet unless I put on some muclucs
[21:24:54] <jmkasunich> 28F when I went outside
[21:25:09] <gene> You're north of me some then I take it?
[21:25:13] <jmkasunich> Cleveland OH
[21:25:33] <gene> Oh, thats not far, but it tells me its gonna be cold here tonight
[21:26:32] <gene> 250 miles maybe? I'm in Weston WV, mile 99 on I-79
[21:27:44] <bpmw> You Guys don't know what cold really is :)
[21:27:44] <bpmw> Try -40c.
[21:27:49] <gene> FWIW John, I slowed it down another .10 and made another motor mount plate yesterday.
[21:28:37] <gene> Been there, done that in RCSD, -39 one morning. I pushed the left front wheel half a mile before it turned. Whell bearing full of lake water.
[21:29:15] <bpmw> Lol.
[21:29:26] <bpmw> Im still nort of there.
[21:29:31] <bpmw> north
[21:29:49] <gene> Old 52 Ford pickup was the only thing that would even turn over that morning, and it was a 6 cyl, full of 50 weight CMO oil, recaimed stuff. :)
[21:30:00] <gene> s/recaimed/reclaimed
[21:30:01] <bpmw> Stil north of ND
[21:30:20] <gene> What is?
[21:30:32] <bpmw> me :)
[21:30:47] <gene> Oh, you mean you are in ND, where?
[21:31:10] <bpmw> no, Still more north of ND.
[21:31:28] <gene> Ahh, a Canuck!
[21:31:51] <bpmw> ya, eh!
[21:32:26] <gene> I used to talk to a wheat farmer not too far from Great Bear Lake, back when chiken band was all the rage.
[21:32:49] <gene> We did it with 12 wats worth of ssb on both ends
[21:33:13] <bpmw> gene, I'm 6 Km. south from mouth of lake Winnipeg, on the Red River.
[21:33:56] <gene> Well, actually, that was a HiGain 723, converted to 40 channels, and plate power cranksed, made 60 watts when you held a whistle into the golden lolypop
[21:34:38] <gene> I'll have to look that up I'm afraid. I've never been over the border going north.
[21:35:25] <bpmw> Red River is well known for awesome Channel Cats.
[21:35:56] <gene> I did that coversion, electronics has been my game for nearly 60 years.
[21:36:17] <bpmw> You can catch 25 to 30 pounders regularly.
[21:36:47] <gene> Channel Cats eh? Bigger than those in the river north or Piere SD? They can run well over 100 lbs.
[21:37:06] <gene> s/Piere/Pierre I think
[21:37:43] <gene> a 25 pounder is pretty edible
[21:38:08] <robin_sz> at 100lbs, it could be the other way around ;)
[21:38:16] <gene> I've caught some small ones here, but nothing like that.
[21:38:51] <bpmw> gene, i was in electronics for a few years myself. I programed/ran the production line for this company www.iders.ca
[21:39:06] <gene> Yeh, thats what the divers trying to clean trash out of the gates said, and refused to go back down...
[21:39:32] <robin_sz> heheh
[21:42:00] <gene> Nice looking site, but incomplete
[21:42:50] <anonimasu> hm
[21:42:58] <anonimasu> there's this sweden on american hot rods on discovery
[21:43:01] <anonimasu> swede..
[21:43:07] <gene> One of them said theres a catfish down there with a sore nose, his tool cut it when it came at him.
[21:43:17] <anonimasu> seems like he sucks at english
[21:43:20] <bpmw> cradek, the mkdir thing didn't work.
[21:43:44] <cradek> sorry, I bet you need mkdir -p ~/emc2/configs
[21:43:47] <gene> Not on my discovery channel, its Harward Carnarvan & his ill fated crew
[21:44:00] <gene> Howard that is
[21:44:09] <bpmw> cradek, i'll try that.
[21:44:17] <gene> I'm on Dish
[21:44:25] <anonimasu> gene: strange :/
[21:44:26] <anonimasu> it's good
[21:44:27] <Jymmm> sounds painful
[21:44:29] <anonimasu> lots of machining today
[21:44:33] <anonimasu> cnc:ing ;)
[21:44:41] <gene> tvtime running on another window
[21:44:55] <gene> Haven't seen any here yet!
[21:45:06] <bpmw> cradek, that one worked. Thanks!
[21:45:12] <cradek> welcome
[21:46:47] <gene> Humm, wrong again, this time its Carter, digging up tutenkamen
[21:46:57] <gene> Oh well.
[21:47:28] <anonimasu> :)
[21:50:14] <anonimasu> hm
[22:08:16] <bpmw> cradek, machine running:)
[22:08:16] <bpmw> ne
[22:08:35] <cradek> terrific!
[22:08:45] <cradek> you got your second parallel port configured and everything?
[22:09:07] <bpmw> cradek, need to slow down max speed though.
[22:09:59] <bpmw> cradek, no didn't work on parport yet, first things first.
[22:11:30] <bpmw> cradek, max vel = 0.7 gives me 42ipm, Iwant to cut it down to 25. What would value be?
[22:12:06] <cradek> 25/60
[22:12:21] <cradek> those are inches per second
[22:13:07] <cradek> so .416667
[22:14:26] <bpmw> ok, thanks.
[22:14:26] <bpmw> brb
[22:15:53] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
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[22:17:06] <robin_sz> inches? .. how 1960's ;)
[22:17:59] <robin_sz> as a mater of interest ... since I presume its in iches because americans still use them
[22:18:14] <robin_sz> and i guess its to make it "user friendly" for such people ...
[22:18:38] <robin_sz> do you kow of ANY machinist who uses "inches per second" as a customary unit of feedrate?
[22:19:45] <fenn> i find inches/sec to be better for seat of the pants reckoning
[22:20:02] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[22:20:07] <cradek> robin_sz: virtually everyone in the entire US probably
[22:20:16] <robin_sz> it seems to be a common confusion with most/ all? newbies
[22:20:20] <cradek> robin_sz: don't start this please?
[22:20:20] <fenn> but inches/minute is better for machining because all the books are written using it
[22:20:30] <fenn> and the numbers are round
[22:20:38] <robin_sz> cradek, sorry, not believing you ...
[22:20:39] <fenn> rounder
[22:20:42] <bpmw> robin_sz, I won't take that diss to heart:)
[22:20:47] <robin_sz> inches per SECOND?
[22:21:04] <bpmw> Inches per minute!!!
[22:21:11] <bpmw> feed rate
[22:21:13] <SWPadnos> inches in general
[22:21:20] <robin_sz> fenn, I agree, incher per minute is what people will use in their heads I guess
[22:22:33] <Jymmm> Whooo.... every 90 minutes now! Yeah
[22:22:39] <robin_sz> the inches per second thing doesnt make much sense to me, and given hat it seems to regualarly confuse newbies, i can only assume it is "not the correct way to do it"
[22:23:00] <robin_sz> perhaps, we should have a config for units?
[22:23:22] <robin_sz> [units] / [interval]
[22:23:59] <bpmw> cradek, works great now, and no following errors. Just have to put lash setting in.
[22:24:00] <robin_sz> then people could configure in somehting that made sense to them and the scale of machine they were working with ...
[22:24:01] <cradek> robin_sz: are you willing to have accel in inches/minute^2?
[22:24:06] <cradek> bpmw: great
[22:24:25] <fenn> i'd rather have an interface to the "units" command and let it sort everything out
[22:24:32] <fenn> then i can program in furlongs/fortnight and it'll be fine
[22:24:38] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[22:24:44] <fenn> yeesh
[22:24:56] <bpmw> cradek, didnt see anything for parport in config file though?
[22:25:48] <robin_sz> cradek, I have often thought that for most users a accel setting that was "time to get to full speed" would be more appropriate
[22:25:56] <cradek> bpmw: in standard_pinout.hal, look at the loadrt hal_parport line
[22:27:17] <robin_sz> actually, the best interface I have seen to accel and velocity was a click draggy grpah and slider thing ...
[22:27:32] <robin_sz> it sort of made sense when you saw it ...
[22:27:56] <bpmw> cradek, ok thanks. Then just at line for 2nd parport?
[22:28:07] <bpmw> at/add
[22:28:20] <cradek> no, not a new line
[22:28:35] <cradek> you might have to look in the hal integrator's pdf
[22:28:56] <cradek> it's something like address1,address2
[22:29:34] <bpmw> ok, I'll look into it. Thanks for getting me "going" I really appreciate the help.
[22:29:55] <cradek> you're welcome
[22:30:47] <jepler> I bet the pdf is out of date; the "array" syntax changed recently.
[22:30:56] <cradek> uh-oh
[22:31:01] <jepler> but maybe that's only for the stepping types and such
[22:31:25] <SWPadnos> loadrt parport cfg="378 278", I think
[22:33:01] <SWPadnos> you can also specify input or output for the data pins by including an i or o after a port address:
[22:33:15] <SWPadnos> loadrt parport cfg="378 i 278 o"
[22:33:27] <SWPadnos> (any word beginning with i or o ill work)
[22:33:28] <cradek> SWPadnos: demo_mazak has a different format
[22:33:39] <SWPadnos> that's what the code looks for, afaics
[22:34:07] <Jymmm> * Jymmm never realized how many terms there are for: wire ties, cable ties, wire wraps, tie wraps, etc
[22:34:10] <cradek> maybe it is out of date then
[22:34:16] <cradek> zip ties
[22:34:32] <jepler> MODULE_PARM_DESC(cfg, "config string");
[22:34:33] <Jymmm> that too, damn
[22:34:33] <SWPadnos> wire management supplies
[22:34:36] <jepler> It is still some kind of string
[22:34:40] <bpmw> ok, thanks, i've been writing this all down.
[22:35:26] <bpmw> talk to you later, have to dig bbq out of snow:)
[22:35:30] <jepler> It's some of the signal generator components (e.g., freqgen) that take an array argument in a different way
[22:35:33] <jepler> MODULE_PARM(step_type, "1-8i");
[22:35:37] <jepler> "array of one to eight integers"
[22:35:48] <Jymmm> bpmw just light the bbq on fire - no digging required
[22:36:15] <bpmw> thanks jymm.LOL
[22:36:26] <Jymmm> bpmw anytime =)
[22:36:36] <gene> chuckle
[22:37:53] <gene> My neighbor across the back fence, like me, has a gas grill, and he doesn't care what the season is, he cooks out in a foot of snow.
[22:41:45] <Jymmm> Me neither, but in Calif, so it really dont matter much.
[22:44:58] <gene> Gotta run guys & gals, take care till tomorrow