#emc | Logs for 2006-03-15

[00:00:31] <giacus> Introduction ise vaery nice
[00:00:34] <giacus> is
[00:00:40] <giacus> very*
[00:00:42] <giacus> haha
[00:01:10] <giacus> the ony thing is not updated to the latest emc2
[00:01:23] <giacus> alex_joni: sayd many thing are changing ..
[00:01:52] <rayh> Not a lot within HAL itself -- yet.
[00:02:02] <giacus> mm
[00:02:25] <giacus> halcmd now seems to use very different options
[00:03:45] <rayh> Ah there are a few additions to it.
[00:03:51] <giacus> /sbin/insomd for example, seems to be deprecated now
[00:04:07] <giacus> insmod*
[00:04:24] <rayh> Is that in the introduction?
[00:04:33] <giacus> yeah..
[00:04:44] <rayh> In halcmd you use loadrt
[00:04:50] <giacus> now ..
[00:04:51] <rayh> or unloadrt
[00:04:59] <giacus> emc2# /sbin/insmod rtlib/hal_parport.o cfg="<config-string>"
[00:05:09] <giacus> is in that doc ..
[00:05:28] <rayh> Ah I'll bet it's in the examples
[00:05:43] <rayh> Sure. jmk was doing that back then.
[00:05:55] <giacus> I heave to understand yet, how emc2 is begin developed
[00:06:08] <giacus> for what I know therre are 3 version
[00:06:16] <giacus> similar to debian
[00:06:28] <giacus> stable-testing-unstable
[00:06:44] <giacus> so, documentation should follow it ..
[00:06:48] <giacus> right ?
[00:07:01] <rayh> source, testing, release.
[00:07:09] <giacus> yeah
[00:07:14] <rayh> No release yet but soon.
[00:07:39] <giacus> ok
[00:07:51] <rayh> Right now you can get source or testing from the usual web places.
[00:08:24] <rayh> The testing from the web is an "installed" system.
[00:08:41] <giacus> oh, yeah ..
[00:08:46] <rayh> From source you can install or run-in-place.
[00:09:00] <giacus> I think i'm using testing right now
[00:09:19] <rayh> Then there is also the sourceforge stuff directly.
[00:09:27] <giacus> I know
[00:09:53] <rayh> Testing from a couple days ago is a very good system.
[00:10:11] <giacus> but linuxcnc.org homepage ssems to be not clean at all about it
[00:10:40] <rayh> Right. We are in process of building a new system for linuxcnc.org.
[00:10:48] <giacus> good
[00:11:12] <giacus> K4ts: I'm here !
[00:11:18] <rayh> Hi K4ts
[00:11:25] <giacus> I was talking to rayh :/
[00:11:34] <K4ts> You menti
[00:11:34] <giacus> not female around ...
[00:11:40] <giacus> :(
[00:11:52] <K4ts> rayh: giacus
[00:11:57] <K4ts> is bad
[00:12:03] <giacus> mmmm
[00:12:04] <K4ts> ah ah
[00:13:31] <giacus> O_o
[00:13:43] <giacus> rayh: end of discussion ..
[00:14:14] <rayh> giacus try http://www.cncgear.com/joomla/
[00:14:17] <giacus> I 'd like to know why womans are dominating the world
[00:14:40] <giacus> rayh: I know joomla
[00:15:09] <giacus> too much closed
[00:15:18] <rayh> Hey IMO they always have.
[00:15:48] <giacus> yeah
[00:15:51] <SWPadnos> giacus, have you tried out the emc site under joomla?
[00:15:59] <giacus> yeah
[00:16:05] <giacus> alex_joni: gave me the url
[00:16:10] <giacus> I know it
[00:16:43] <SWPadnos> ok. I think the one on cncgear is close to the same as nhis in Roamnia
[00:16:49] <SWPadnos> s/nhis/his/
[00:17:06] <rayh> SWPadnos, I see you added your links to the download stuff I put in the other day.
[00:17:09] <giacus> I like Moin wiki
[00:17:11] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:17:19] <rayh> I really like the editability of it.
[00:17:25] <SWPadnos> I wasn't sure what the others were, so I left them out
[00:17:42] <SWPadnos> yeah. I like the fact that most everything is in the menus
[00:17:43] <rayh> That's why I left em all out.
[00:17:46] <SWPadnos> I dodn't notice that at first
[00:17:50] <SWPadnos> didn't
[00:18:20] <rayh> dinner calls, bbl
[00:18:27] <SWPadnos> me, too. see you
[00:18:29] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[00:18:34] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[00:18:48] <giacus> slurp :P
[00:20:20] <giacus> rousing sausages eh ..
[00:20:24] <giacus> rousting
[00:20:27] <giacus> hehe
[00:24:25] <giacus> uhuhuhuuuuuu
[00:24:33] <giacus> baby please don't goooo
[00:24:49] <K4ts> rayh-away:
[00:25:05] <K4ts> you invited for 17 18 19
[00:25:13] <giacus> K4ts: rayh-away ie ating sausages ..
[00:25:21] <giacus> waht you say him ?
[00:25:34] <K4ts> my competition I whait
[00:25:43] <giacus> wait ?
[00:25:49] <giacus> let it wait ..
[00:25:49] <K4ts> come si scrive ti aspetto?
[00:25:51] <giacus> :)
[00:25:54] <giacus> wait
[00:25:57] <K4ts> ok
[00:26:03] <K4ts> acca mi scappa
[00:26:06] <K4ts> tanta palula
[00:26:11] <giacus> fear ?
[00:26:13] <giacus> :P
[00:26:27] <giacus> if you leave me now ..
[00:26:31] <giacus> uh uh uuuuuu
[00:26:37] <giacus> no baby please dont gooo
[00:26:40] <giacus> :D
[00:26:51] <giacus> nice song chicago eh ?
[00:26:53] <giacus> :P
[00:27:35] <giacus> btw rayh-away dont know ti play guitar
[00:27:44] <giacus> he just play cnc :)
[00:27:52] <giacus> dunno about his voice
[00:28:01] <giacus> if is good or bad ..
[00:28:11] <giacus> lets asking him
[00:28:43] <dmessier> get rhythm'...
[00:28:56] <giacus> rayh-away: are you able to play a solo guitar ?
[00:29:03] <giacus> dmessier: hello :P
[00:29:17] <giacus> give me the 'La'
[00:29:33] <giacus> really ..
[00:29:38] <dmessier> then you'll get the blue's... ; )
[00:29:42] <giacus> youre talking with great artist
[00:29:51] <giacus> maybe you don't know ..
[00:30:00] <giacus> but I play drum and guitar
[00:30:10] <giacus> K4ts: is a great voice
[00:30:16] <giacus> napolitan
[00:30:25] <giacus> peloponneso
[00:30:29] <giacus> you know ?
[00:30:33] <dmessier> ci
[00:30:35] <K4ts> sicula
[00:31:02] <giacus> if we go to play our songs in venice beach
[00:31:15] <K4ts> Sanremo
[00:31:19] <giacus> we take about 1000 $ /day !
[00:31:30] <dmessier> all GREAT blues artists ARE masters of the rest
[00:31:33] <giacus> hehe
[00:31:49] <giacus> dmessier: you play any instrument ?
[00:31:54] <dmessier> bue bende
[00:32:01] <giacus> blues ?
[00:32:04] <K4ts> dmessier: I'm pink
[00:32:17] <giacus> yeah
[00:32:18] <K4ts> :-)
[00:32:21] <giacus> pink panter
[00:32:24] <giacus> haha
[00:32:38] <dmessier> one handed open cord finger pickin' stuff is all... i make the right nois SOME time..
[00:32:44] <K4ts> pink woman
[00:32:51] <giacus> mm
[00:32:57] <giacus> wonder woman
[00:33:03] <giacus> and im superman ..
[00:33:07] <giacus> lol
[00:33:14] <dmessier> im ME
[00:33:20] <dmessier> MESS
[00:33:35] <giacus> btw dmessier
[00:33:44] <dmessier> when i splt itll look the same
[00:33:48] <giacus> we're planning to write a song for emc
[00:33:53] <giacus> any idea ?
[00:34:01] <dmessier> can i play??? ; )
[00:34:10] <giacus> sure
[00:34:16] <dmessier> i have crayons to share
[00:34:47] <giacus> whats crayons ?
[00:35:19] <giacus> thing to eat ?
[00:35:24] <dmessier> have you ever headed Dolly Parton's #its???
[00:35:33] <giacus> never
[00:35:48] <dmessier> no crayons is for coloring...
[00:35:51] <giacus> we like jazz
[00:35:55] <giacus> not folk
[00:36:08] <giacus> also like fusion
[00:36:34] <K4ts> dmessier: night
[00:36:38] <giacus> to be clear
[00:36:42] <K4ts> night giacus
[00:36:44] <dmessier> diana C
[00:36:53] <K4ts> diana krall
[00:36:56] <giacus> ah
[00:36:59] <giacus> krall
[00:37:04] <dmessier> i like folk... S&G
[00:37:10] <giacus> yeah yeah
[00:37:19] <giacus> no, folk no.. please
[00:37:28] <dmessier> thats it sons an idiot
[00:37:40] <giacus> what ?
[00:37:46] <K4ts> chi idiot'
[00:37:49] <giacus> a good song is when
[00:38:08] <giacus> the playr don't understanda what is playng
[00:38:23] <giacus> or, just he can understand what he's playng
[00:38:31] <giacus> him
[00:38:33] <dmessier> it moves the inards to think how we missed it
[00:39:17] <dmessier> and ONLY HE can tell you the story..
[00:39:30] <K4ts> night
[00:39:33] <giacus> mmm
[00:39:37] <dmessier> bon nuit
[00:39:38] <giacus> dmessier
[00:39:52] <K4ts> dmessiervous ete francais?
[00:39:54] <dmessier> im stayin'
[00:40:00] <giacus> I want to upload a file I played with mi harp ..
[00:40:10] <giacus> give me a minut
[00:40:50] <dmessier> je suis garcons..... mais je parle francais aussi
[00:41:32] <dmessier> j'habite au Canada
[00:41:35] <K4ts> ah je suis jeune fille ah ah
[00:41:48] <K4ts> j habite a naples
[00:42:03] <dmessier> j'ai 2 fise... ;)
[00:42:12] <giacus> K4ts: I live in naples
[00:42:13] <K4ts> ah ah aussi moi
[00:42:26] <K4ts> 2 fille
[00:42:32] <giacus> otherwise dmessier dont understand :(
[00:42:33] <K4ts> marco e emanuele
[00:42:41] <giacus> mark
[00:42:42] <dmessier> que'll age??
[00:42:46] <giacus> and manuel
[00:42:51] <K4ts> 14 et 9
[00:42:53] <K4ts> ans
[00:43:15] <K4ts> moi 42
[00:43:28] <dmessier> nous avons daniel, tyler, et erin ( c'elle la c'est un fille)
[00:43:48] <K4ts> trois allor?
[00:44:14] <giacus> anna
[00:44:15] <dmessier> trois ftute du chance
[00:44:16] <giacus> mic
[00:45:05] <dmessier> qui moi?
[00:45:13] <giacus> i'm
[00:45:15] <giacus> wait
[00:45:20] <giacus> uploading ..
[00:45:34] <dmessier> does it hurt??
[00:45:56] <dmessier> grunt.....it helps
[00:46:50] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/Children_Song_15.mp3
[00:46:54] <giacus> listen
[00:47:06] <giacus> thats my inedit song
[00:47:10] <giacus> with harp
[00:47:30] <giacus> just some minut
[00:47:46] <giacus> was the 'base'
[00:47:53] <dmessier> nous avon 3 babuains qui'll son des tresor..
[00:48:05] <giacus> eh ?
[00:48:12] <giacus> speak english please
[00:48:14] <giacus> :(
[00:48:29] <giacus> anna understand french, i'm not
[00:48:41] <dmessier> ok sorry.. im nice
[00:48:53] <giacus> :P
[00:48:59] <dmessier> did you play this??
[00:49:02] <giacus> yeah
[00:49:12] <dmessier> im impressed..
[00:49:19] <giacus> hehe
[00:49:21] <giacus> lol
[00:49:25] <giacus> simple
[00:49:31] <giacus> very simple
[00:49:33] <giacus> :)
[00:49:53] <dmessier> im NOT trained.... just schooled
[00:50:15] <giacus> nice
[00:51:12] <dmessier> i play open chords ... and finger pick my way out of holes
[00:51:34] <giacus> hehe
[00:51:53] <giacus> I've 2 guitars
[00:51:59] <giacus> one classic
[00:52:06] <giacus> other jazz
[00:52:15] <giacus> very nice :)
[00:52:18] <dmessier> gut string??
[00:52:29] <giacus> first is espanoil I think
[00:52:46] <giacus> 6 chords
[00:52:47] <dmessier> metal strings???
[00:52:55] <giacus> mettalic on second guitars
[00:52:58] <giacus> yeah
[00:53:04] <giacus> nylon on first
[00:53:05] <K4ts> dmessier: je vais a couche
[00:53:11] <K4ts> a demain!
[00:53:21] <giacus> what
[00:53:23] <giacus> ?
[00:53:25] <dmessier> beau reve... gros beck
[00:53:34] <K4ts> bonne nuit
[00:53:39] <giacus> speak international aplesa !!
[00:53:40] <K4ts> merci
[00:53:56] <giacus> mmm
[00:54:05] <dmessier> bein venu
[00:54:07] <K4ts> mon oncle habite a grenoble tu connai?
[00:54:19] <dmessier> see i got som you didnt.. nannnaaaa
[00:54:39] <dmessier> non je suis au Canada
[00:54:42] <K4ts> a cote de Lyon
[00:54:58] <giacus> K4ts: let me say ..
[00:55:05] <K4ts> oui je sais
[00:55:06] <giacus> four frech is very *bad*
[00:55:12] <giacus> your
[00:55:17] <giacus> french
[00:55:20] <giacus> :(
[00:55:25] <K4ts> pèas bad
[00:55:29] <K4ts> pas
[00:55:31] <K4ts> bad
[00:55:35] <giacus> cnat understand a word !
[00:55:35] <dmessier> as ??
[00:56:24] <giacus> p�as
[00:56:28] <K4ts> dmessier: mon francais est pa bonne?
[00:56:30] <giacus> what she sayd ?
[00:56:31] <dmessier> Gia... your guitar is outstanding
[00:56:43] <giacus> O_O
[00:56:59] <giacus> my guitar is cooool ^__^
[00:57:07] <dmessier> tons fransais et tres bone... sans trouble
[00:57:50] <dmessier> le miens... sais de la merde
[00:57:54] <K4ts> di toi a giacus ca!
[00:57:57] <K4ts> bye
[00:58:10] <giacus> ka ya to yoi
[00:58:11] <dmessier> ; )
[00:58:15] <giacus> ciao !
[00:59:04] <dmessier> Gia.... Stop dissin' her french....
[00:59:15] <giacus> good ?
[00:59:38] <giacus> it was very bad :(
[01:00:56] <dmessier> was quite GOOd mon frere
[01:01:07] <giacus> rayh-away: always fighting with sausages ..
[01:01:15] <giacus> SWP_Away: too ..
[01:01:46] <dmessier> saugeges are scuishy
[01:01:53] <giacus> :P
[01:02:22] <dmessier> but you can hide bodies in them... ; )
[01:02:41] <giacus> I like chili peppers
[01:02:59] <giacus> here we have a very very strong pepper
[01:03:11] <giacus> more strong then mexican pepper
[01:03:24] <giacus> we use pepper also in the milk !
[01:03:32] <dmessier> send me a bag.... i like HOT
[01:03:33] <giacus> everywhere.. pepper
[01:03:51] <giacus> I can send u a plant
[01:03:57] <giacus> in may
[01:04:03] <dmessier> that'd be SWEET
[01:04:18] <giacus> mm
[01:04:24] <giacus> i can assure you
[01:04:30] <dmessier> but import laws only permit certain species
[01:04:31] <giacus> 1 pepper you try
[01:04:43] <giacus> 10 jumps around the house
[01:04:46] <giacus> really
[01:04:50] <giacus> its strong
[01:04:58] <dmessier> big plant??
[01:05:02] <giacus> nope
[01:05:06] <giacus> very small
[01:05:13] <giacus> and very small peppers
[01:05:19] <giacus> but so strong ..
[01:05:25] <dmessier> ornamental pepper of sorts??
[01:05:30] <giacus> nahh
[01:05:41] <giacus> we eat it with pasta
[01:05:48] <giacus> pastasciutta and peppers
[01:06:00] <dmessier> so its a pepper corn?? or a fresh pepper???
[01:06:06] <giacus> you need an heatsink eating that :(
[01:06:12] <giacus> and a cooler
[01:06:36] <giacus> here we have a various of species
[01:06:45] <giacus> corn and others
[01:06:56] <giacus> the strong is the smaller
[01:06:59] <giacus> damn it ..
[01:07:04] <giacus> like fire
[01:07:05] <dmessier> how long to maturity??
[01:07:31] <giacus> just during summer or so
[01:07:44] <dmessier> so 30 wks??
[01:07:45] <giacus> it depend on wheater
[01:08:07] <giacus> time to maturity is some week
[01:08:31] <giacus> in the summer you can see hundred of them comes up
[01:08:58] <giacus> if the weather is hot enough
[01:09:20] <giacus> sometine it can remain since dicember
[01:10:02] <dmessier> i'll certainly accept a care package of them seed anyt ine... ; )
[01:10:36] <giacus> just give me your address an i'll send it tou you
[01:10:45] <giacus> 3 days ship
[01:10:47] <giacus> :)
[01:11:04] <giacus> but we have to wait some month yet ..
[01:11:21] <giacus> are not ready yet
[01:14:04] <giacus> my mother have a kitchen garden
[01:14:18] <giacus> she do all by hand
[01:14:30] <dmessier> brb
[01:14:46] <giacus> brb
[01:17:01] <giacus> * giacus go to visit the kitchen ..
[01:24:31] <giacus> found a piece of cheese
[01:24:35] <giacus> 200 gr
[01:24:38] <giacus> :D
[01:33:36] <giacus> night
[02:07:00] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[02:07:00] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[02:25:18] <jepler> yay, the servos turn and the feedback shows in halscope. Next up, writing a proper HAL configuration so I can actually jog these tiny little servos in emc.
[02:25:24] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi/projects/01142347802
[02:25:54] <cradek> wooo
[02:25:56] <SWP_Away> cool
[02:26:19] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[02:26:57] <SWPadnos> is it actually PWM input or step pulses?
[02:27:26] <jepler> SWPadnos: The concept is to generate a PWM (or otherwise variable-duty cycle) from emc on the parallel port.
[02:27:37] <SWPadnos> ah, ok.
[02:28:39] <jepler> SWPadnos: if you're looking at the schematic, INPUT1+INPUT2 specifies the direction of the first servo, and the ENABLE1 pin is used to set the duty cycle
[02:28:46] <jepler> er, ENABLE_A
[02:28:50] <SWPadnos> right ;)
[02:29:06] <SWPadnos> so INPUT[12] need to be complements of each other?
[02:29:31] <SWPadnos> (ie, they select the rail that the respective motor lead gets pinned to)
[02:29:37] <jepler> Yes. INPUT1 = INPUT2 is a "fast brake" configuration. However, no set of inputs can damage the driver chip
[02:29:47] <SWPadnos> right
[02:29:49] <SWPadnos> cool stuff
[02:29:59] <jepler> L298 is nice if you don't need too many Vs or As
[02:30:13] <jepler> this is <500mA per motor
[02:30:18] <jepler> maybe <<500mA
[02:30:24] <SWPadnos> right - 35V / 3A or something, right?
[02:30:35] <SWPadnos> or was that the allegro part?
[02:30:43] <jepler> This is 46V / 4A
[02:30:47] <SWPadnos> ok
[02:31:12] <jepler> 2A/bridge, heatsinking, etc
[02:31:58] <SWPadnos> right.
[02:32:16] <SWPadnos> interesting application for servos instead of steppers
[02:32:31] <jepler> somebody (jmk) mentioned the idea
[02:33:44] <fenn> what is the application?
[02:34:09] <SWPadnos> probably better control with a microcontroller, but still useful for small / low speed stuff
[02:34:10] <LawrenceG> very cool Jeff.... it will be interesting to see what kind of encoder performance you can get with the software decoder
[02:34:15] <fenn> oh you mean the l298
[02:34:20] <SWPadnos> servo drive instead of stepper drive from an l298
[02:34:37] <SWPadnos> two motors per chip
[02:34:55] <jepler> fenn: This is the closed-loop upgrade for my etch-a-sketch
[02:35:02] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:35:13] <LawrenceG> I like it!
[02:38:31] <jepler> can I simply set an output pin to be TRUE in hal?
[02:38:48] <cradek> I think that was just on the mailing list today
[02:38:53] <SWPadnos> yes, but you have to connect a signal to it first
[02:39:02] <SWPadnos> then use sets signame true
[02:39:02] <jepler> cradek: i'll look
[02:39:08] <jepler> SWPadnos: that's a silly name
[02:39:12] <jepler> er, silly way
[02:39:37] <SWPadnos> that's the only name, unless you want to load blocks with a constant (though that's a float, I think)
[02:39:40] <jepler> newsig True bit
[02:39:40] <jepler> sets True TRUE
[02:39:40] <jepler> newsig False bit
[02:39:40] <jepler> sets False FALSE
[02:39:44] <SWPadnos> s/name/way/
[02:39:50] <LawrenceG> jepler: you need one of these for jogging... http://members.shaw.ca/swstuff/mouse.html
[02:39:51] <cradek> I don't understand the differences between pins, parameters, signals
[02:39:51] <SWPadnos> that's doable as well
[02:40:07] <SWPadnos> heh - neither does jmk ;)
[02:40:18] <fenn> a pin is just a pointer to a signal, which is a register
[02:40:27] <fenn> no idea what a parameter's supposed to be
[02:40:28] <SWPadnos> one of the things on the list for the HAL refactor is to get rid of parameters altogether
[02:40:34] <fenn> good
[02:40:41] <cradek> wonder where he is - I thought he was going to be back yesterday
[02:40:49] <SWPadnos> remember, it's a schematic metaphor
[02:41:23] <SWPadnos> signals connect pins. parameters are like jumpers or test points - things that aren't really used in the moment-to-moment operation of the circuit
[02:42:13] <fenn> but sometimes you want to
[02:42:27] <SWPadnos> yeah, that's why parameters will go away sometime
[02:43:00] <fenn> it will be easier to have signals for everything when hal gets a gui
[02:43:52] <SWPadnos> pins take a little more memory and time, but it will be good to be rid of parameters
[02:45:23] <jepler> it's too bad I can't run "halcmd help" without realtime started.
[02:45:33] <SWPadnos> use -h instead
[02:45:36] <cradek> man halcmd
[02:45:47] <SWPadnos> they print the same info, except for the release mutex option
[02:46:01] <fenn> its too bad i cant run axis without realtime started ;)
[02:46:13] <cradek> it's too bad I can't run emc without realtime started
[02:46:16] <SWPadnos> it's too bad I can't run Linux on Windows ;)
[02:46:20] <jepler> fenn: actually I agree with you
[02:46:23] <jepler> SWPadnos: troll
[02:46:26] <SWPadnos> hah.
[02:46:28] <SWPadnos> hegh
[02:46:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:46:32] <SWPadnos> argh
[02:47:00] <cradek> nobody agrees with me? I'm serious
[02:47:15] <SWPadnos> I agree - non-RT would be great
[02:47:35] <SWPadnos> even if only for sim
[02:47:37] <jepler> cradek: that's why I still have emc1 installed some places
[02:48:47] <SWPadnos> is there a fest to-do list yet?
[02:48:47] <fenn> is there any reason to run a physical machine in non-rt?
[02:49:17] <SWPadnos> fenn, I wouldn't run a real machine that way, but testing some motors or encoders might be nice
[02:49:32] <fenn> nobody ever wrote anything on the cnc-workshop wiki i set up last year
[02:49:45] <SWPadnos> hmm
[02:49:51] <SWPadnos> was that on your own site?
[02:50:00] <fenn> ah its still there
[02:50:02] <fenn> http://www1.atwiki.com/cnc-workshop/
[02:50:33] <fenn> i asked roland to mention it on his site but he never wrote back
[02:50:51] <SWPadnos> I don't remember seeing it, but then, I think I was out of the office for the 4 weeks before the workshop last year
[02:51:12] <SWPadnos> I think people are a little more used to the wiki idea now.
[02:51:22] <SWPadnos> (at least the emc crowd)
[02:51:33] <fenn> SWPadnos: you think we should work on emc itself at the fest?
[02:51:45] <SWPadnos> that's the idea of fest
[02:51:58] <SWPadnos> at least getting some clear plan, and preferably code as well
[02:52:13] <fenn> is there another event besides cnc-workshop?
[02:52:15] <SWPadnos> some would argue that that was in the wrong order ;)
[02:52:23] <fenn> last year people were pretty focused on the mazak
[02:52:24] <SWPadnos> no, fest is at the cnc-workshop this year
[02:53:02] <SWPadnos> I think the plan was to make it easier for the emc crowd to get to the workshop and fest
[02:53:15] <SWPadnos> though it may not be ideal for the fest itself
[02:53:24] <fenn> well better than nist at least i guess
[02:53:31] <fenn> er, maybe
[02:53:43] <fenn> hmm makes you wonder
[02:53:45] <SWPadnos> yep. 24 hour access is good
[02:54:16] <cradek> 8-5 access would be really frustrating
[02:54:26] <SWPadnos> yeah, it was annoying
[02:54:33] <fenn> yeah even for just day to day metrology stuff
[02:54:44] <SWPadnos> you had to be out the gate by 5:00, or you had to be escorted by Fred, as I recall
[03:00:57] <jepler> yay. 08 s32 -W -946 encoder.0.counts
[03:01:24] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:02:37] <SWPadnos> ah, OK. there is a scaled float output
[03:03:24] <jepler> yep
[03:03:33] <jepler> I think I have the input side working, except that i have to figure out my scale
[03:03:50] <SWPadnos> I was concerned for a sec, since there's no way to convert from an S32 to a float in HAL ;)
[03:04:59] <jepler> SWPadnos: hah / bah
[03:05:45] <fenn> eh.. how do you get encoder counts into joint positions?
[03:05:49] <jepler> now where's the component that will turn the velocity command into a duty cycle?
[03:06:12] <jepler> fenn: linksp Xpos-fb <= encoder.0.position
[03:06:43] <jepler> linksp Xpos-fb => pid.0.feedback
[03:07:18] <fenn> pid converts s32 to float?
[03:07:27] <jepler> fenn: encoder.0.position, not encoder.0.counts
[03:07:42] <jepler> encoder converts counts to position by dividing by encoder.X.position-scale
[03:07:44] <jepler> (a parameter)
[03:07:46] <fenn> erm.. how are you reading the encoders?
[03:07:56] <jepler> fenn: TTL signals on the parallel port
[03:08:11] <fenn> did you just write the encoder block?
[03:08:17] <jepler> no, it already existed
[03:08:59] <fenn> well look at that
[03:10:53] <Roguish> SWPadnos: regarding the 5i20, got a minute? or 2?
[03:12:33] <jepler> I think maybe I could use siggen sawtooth wave + blocks comparator to get a variable duty-cycle signal
[03:13:26] <cradek> that would be linear, right?
[03:13:42] <jepler> yes
[03:14:30] <SWPadnos> Roguish, yep - I'm here
[03:15:13] <Roguish> hey, i'v been thru this stuff pretty thoroughly and i need more general i/o's !!!
[03:15:22] <jepler> cradek: do you think linear is not what I want?
[03:15:30] <SWPadnos> heh. gonna get rid of some PWMs? ;)
[03:15:46] <cradek> jepler: I think it is what you want
[03:16:25] <Roguish> sure, i'll trade a pair of secondary encoders...
[03:17:01] <SWPadnos> I think that's a petev question. I'm not sure I have a toolchaing set up that can generate the bit file
[03:17:19] <SWPadnos> I can try though, I do have Xilinx ISE here
[03:17:25] <Roguish> what's a tool chain?
[03:17:51] <SWPadnos> heh - the group of software tools used to get from source code (VHDL) to object code (.bit file)
[03:17:58] <Roguish> also, i see a lot of vhdl code, but not schematic.
[03:18:01] <SWPadnos> or any other source to object
[03:18:30] <SWPadnos> right - that's the trouble. I'm not sure I can duplicate what's there easily, and I want to do that before modifying it
[03:18:45] <SWPadnos> I'll try loading up the vhdl files in either Altium or ISE
[03:19:06] <jepler> ugh. where's "absolute value"? I want to set the duty cycle of ENABLE_A based on abs(pid.0.output)
[03:19:16] <Roguish> Zilinx has their 'Webpack' software for freeeeee.
[03:19:18] <Roguish> can a vhdl be turned into a schematic? easily?
[03:19:18] <jepler> clearly I'm not going to be able to evade writing a HAL module much longer.
[03:19:25] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:19:42] <Roguish> silly question i guess
[03:19:45] <SWPadnos> Roguish, yep. ISE WebPack is free, and probably suffficient for this
[03:19:53] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if the Linux version is free though
[03:20:10] <Jymmm> jepler: You will be HALASIMULATED!
[03:20:35] <Roguish> i got a buddy with everything that zilinx makes, but he's pretty busy right now. work and new baby and new shop and remodelling his house.
[03:21:26] <Roguish> yes it is. i just can't figure out how to install it. i'm not the linux kinda guy.
[03:21:54] <SWPadnos> what I don't immediately see is which file is the "top" file
[03:23:13] <Roguish> ya got me. i figured i would go through one of their simple tutorials. and visit Mesa (only about 25 miles away).
[03:24:04] <Jymmm> * Jymmm knows of a town in AZ by that name... Everything within 100 miles sucks too!
[03:24:19] <Jymmm> ;)
[03:25:56] <Roguish> this Mesa is in Richmond, north end of the SF bay. one of the leading murder centers. running neck and neck with Oakland right now. don't let your car break down in that neighborhood (read 'hood').
[03:26:25] <Jymmm> * Jymmm now avoids Conord too
[03:26:28] <Jymmm> Concord
[03:27:01] <Jymmm> Another reason to hate the East Bay
[03:28:01] <Jymmm> well.... avoid E.Bay not really hate it.
[03:28:12] <SWPadnos> eBay seems OK to me ;)
[03:28:22] <Roguish> Concord's ok, i prefer Lafayette. you like East Palo Alto? or Hunter's Point?
[03:28:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'll drop you off in Oakland when you come out here
[03:28:46] <SWPadnos> I'll take a SuperShuttle to the Hotel, thanks ;)
[03:28:51] <Jymmm> East anything is always bad news...
[03:28:57] <SWPadnos> though I have a friend in Oakland
[03:29:02] <Roguish> on E 14th street
[03:29:08] <SWPadnos> She'd be happy to take me in off the street,I think
[03:29:11] <Jymmm> East San Jose, East LA, East Palo Alto, etc
[03:29:27] <Roguish> ya, but it's West Oakland!!!!!!!!!
[03:29:45] <Jymmm> Hey, I don't do Oakland at all... not even the airport
[03:30:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos when you coming in?
[03:30:12] <SWPadnos> I was lucky - I found tickets to SJC for $432 or something like that
[03:30:18] <SWPadnos> one sec...
[03:30:39] <SWPadnos> April 2 at 12:34 in the afternoon
[03:30:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and the conf starts when?
[03:30:59] <SWPadnos> April 3 at 8:00 AM, I think
[03:31:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and hotel is where?
[03:31:30] <SWPadnos> next door to the convention center (Hilton)
[03:31:40] <SWPadnos> attached, actually
[03:31:42] <Jymmm> oh, in moscoe cntr
[03:31:53] <SWPadnos> no, McEnery, in San Jose
[03:32:04] <SWPadnos> not in SF this year
[03:32:04] <Jymmm> oh that's right! duh
[03:32:07] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:32:15] <SWPadnos> like 3 blocks from you, right?
[03:32:18] <Jymmm> yep
[03:32:50] <SWPadnos> well, we could have dinner on Sunday or something, though I'll be pretty tired (flight leaves at 7:30 AM EST)
[03:33:21] <Jymmm> earlier dinner/late lunch?
[03:33:31] <SWPadnos> yeah, then get to bed early
[03:33:53] <SWPadnos> are you planning on going to the trade show to check out the cool toys?
[03:34:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: no passes.
[03:34:11] <SWPadnos> bummer. I can probably give you a code to get one
[03:34:47] <Jymmm> oh register online or something? Hell I can't even remember what you are goin to! lol
[03:34:49] <Jymmm> brb smoke
[03:34:53] <SWPadnos> yep.
[03:34:55] <SWPadnos> oops
[03:35:51] <SWPadnos> http://www.embedded.com/esc/sv/
[03:37:24] <Roguish> ok, back to the 5i20. i'm not banging on what's been done. it just needs additional work.
[03:37:27] <SWPadnos> Roguish, I don't see any FPGA layout file (or don't recognize it), so I'm not sure what can be done
[03:37:54] <SWPadnos> I agree. It should also be totally rebuildable, or it isn't quite GPL compliant
[03:37:57] <SWPadnos> I think
[03:38:11] <fenn> thats right
[03:38:24] <SWPadnos> anyway. I think an email to PeteV may be needed here, just to get directions and /or any missing files
[03:38:49] <Roguish> last email i sent him bounced back.
[03:38:54] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:39:33] <SWPadnos> He sent an email to the users list on March 2, so he's still around
[03:39:33] <Roguish> what is 'rebuildable' in your opinion?
[03:39:53] <SWPadnos> I can run some software and reproduce the .bit and FPGA config header files
[03:40:04] <SWPadnos> all of the "source" should be there
[03:40:12] <cradek> the user must be able to modify the code to make a custom system.
[03:40:56] <Roguish> well, there's an awful lot of C code and vhdl. pretty well written too!
[03:41:05] <SWPadnos> yep. I'm not sure if it's just me, but I think there is at least one file missing from the Mesa FPGA code - the schematic / project file that glues together all the parts that are there
[03:42:04] <Roguish> some can write straight vhdl without a schematic. pretty heady stuff.
[03:43:22] <jepler> Aha, it seems I may want the up/down mode of freqgen
[03:43:31] <SWPadnos> hmmm. it might be hostmot5-4e.vhd, but I'm not sure if it uses the other files, or just incorporates all the code from those files in it
[03:43:40] <cradek> jepler: that sounds familiar now that you say it
[03:43:50] <SWPadnos> triangle waves?
[03:43:55] <Roguish> i am definitely going to check with Mesa as they helped PeteV, and i'll try PeteV again.
[03:44:53] <Jymmm> You guys talking about the USB thing from Gecko?
[03:45:23] <SWPadnos> no, the Mesa 5I20
[03:45:27] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[03:45:29] <SWPadnos> not the G-Rex
[03:45:32] <Roguish> no, the Mesanet 5I20
[03:46:18] <Jymmm> Someone making a emc to mesa thingy?
[03:47:36] <Roguish> i have a couple of projects that i want to use it on.
[03:48:01] <SWPadnos> there's already a driver, the wuestion is how to change the FPGA configuration
[03:48:04] <SWPadnos> question
[03:49:07] <Roguish> if the fpga changes, does the driver necessarily have to change? or is this an obvious silly question?
[03:49:21] <SWPadnos> yes, it is an obvious silly wuestion ;)
[03:49:23] <SWPadnos> question
[03:49:25] <SWPadnos> dammit
[03:49:45] <SWPadnos> the source may not need to change, but it definitely nees to be recompiled
[03:49:52] <SWPadnos> needs
[03:50:15] <SWPadnos> maybe I should just go to bed now, and put me out of everyone's misery ;)
[03:50:32] <Roguish> ok, more io's, fewer encoders.
[03:50:35] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, did you see the link above? exhibit passes are free
[03:50:48] <SWPadnos> right, the masks for I/O would probably need to change
[03:51:09] <SWPadnos> plus, it would make sense to just have all the I/O on the same header, and all the special functions on other headers
[03:51:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos looking...
[03:51:55] <SWPadnos> lots of chips, test equipment, computer hardware and that kind of thing
[03:52:04] <Roguish> oh ya. the current physical pin arrangement is horrible!!!!!!!
[03:52:46] <SWPadnos> heh. also, unless there's no more register space, there isn't really a reason to make the driver align the output bits - just ahave a 32-bit register, and the FPGA should be able to do that
[03:53:09] <SWPadnos> (the shift and mask stuff we were discussing before)
[03:53:18] <Roguish> quite user hostile. not good for wiring up at all.
[03:53:54] <SWPadnos> did you confirm that those files actually describe the I/O correctly?
[03:53:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: heh, I just saved the pdf file itself =)
[03:54:09] <SWPadnos> just register online - it's easier :)
[03:55:04] <SWPadnos> hmm - this could have some interesting sessions:
[03:55:08] <SWPadnos> http://www.rtas.org/
[03:56:02] <Roguish> as best as i can. i believe they are good. but i only find 4 inputs and 8 outputs. whrere all the code refers to 32 inputs and 16 outputs.
[03:56:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:56:48] <Roguish> maybe i missed the mask thingy again.
[03:56:57] <SWPadnos> could be
[03:57:19] <SWPadnos> it looks like 16 of the pins on P4 are input or output
[03:57:34] <SWPadnos> and 12 on P3
[03:57:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: do you receive the invitation vie snail or email?
[03:58:01] <Roguish> i got the 12 on P3. but not the 16 on P4.
[03:58:09] <SWPadnos> both
[03:58:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I'll signup in person and lie my ass off instead =)
[03:58:37] <SWPadnos> it'll be $95 at the door
[03:58:47] <SWPadnos> it's free if you register ahead of time
[03:59:08] <SWPadnos> Roguish, on P4, bits B4, B5, B6, B7 plus B12-23 make up 16 total
[03:59:24] <SWPadnos> I'm not counting the SIM bits on P4
[03:59:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos "Register online until 1pm PST 3/30 or print this page and bring it with you to onsite registration for free admission to the exhibits. Use Priority Code UP44."
[03:59:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I printed the page =)
[03:59:38] <SWPadnos> ah, in that case, go for it ;)
[03:59:45] <SWPadnos> there will be lines, just so you know
[03:59:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, You'll NEVER get off a CMP mailing list.
[04:00:20] <SWPadnos> I'm only on this one, and I only get emails before these conferences. they seem pretty good, as these things go
[04:01:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Besides, I never get any of the REALLY COOL stuff anyway
[04:01:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:02:03] <SWPadnos> I got a 1GB Lexar flash stick (secure, even), a 512M IPod nano, and several things like flashlights and USB hubs last year
[04:02:07] <Roguish> ya know, i was wondering about those. if i can address those then there are plenty of io's.
[04:02:14] <SWPadnos> oh yeah, and a 128M iStick USB drive
[04:02:38] <SWPadnos> must be jealous
[04:02:45] <SWPadnos> or the fire got to his apartment ;)
[04:03:14] <Roguish> you're pretty good at this late night multi-tasking....
[04:03:22] <SWPadnos> sometimes
[04:03:34] <Roguish> or would this be multi-threading?
[04:03:50] <SWPadnos> multi-conversing
[04:03:59] <Jymmm> Roguish: I'd say SWPadnos is more of a RISC than anything else =)
[04:04:06] <Jymmm> s/RISC/Risk/
[04:04:13] <Jymmm> eh, either or
[04:04:16] <fenn> mmm.. multisnack
[04:04:23] <SWPadnos> Really Intelligent Super Communicator
[04:04:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos that sounds really blonde
[04:04:44] <SWPadnos> yeah - multisnacking - that's what I like
[04:04:49] <Jymmm> lol
[04:04:52] <fenn> i have this strange thing where electronics looks like candy bars to me
[04:04:55] <SWPadnos> well, I had a different word for the C, but I didn't use it
[04:05:11] <fenn> Crackhead
[04:05:26] <Roguish> i liked that motor driver you guys mentioned earlier. can we get a full schematic, with opto isolated io's?
[04:05:29] <fenn> http://dlharmon.com/solder/smd.html
[04:05:54] <jepler> I guess I'll have to be satisfied that I got the encoder inputs to work, and leave the rest for another time...
[04:06:27] <SWPadnos> I like the laptop-controlled toaster oven for BGAs ;)
[04:06:52] <SWPadnos> Roguish, I think it may be possible to disable some of the functions, and use the bits as generic I/O
[04:06:58] <fenn> it proves that it's not all that hard, so now people can stop whining
[04:07:01] <SWPadnos> without changing the FPGA or driver
[04:07:12] <SWPadnos> bullshit ;)
[04:07:30] <SWPadnos> BGAs are a nightmare for prototyping, since you need an X-Ray machine to test the connections
[04:07:40] <SWPadnos> they're nearly impossible to inspect
[04:07:48] <fenn> can't you just jtag and provide a test point for each one?
[04:07:55] <fenn> somewhere else on the board
[04:08:01] <fenn> hey it's only 300 pins :)
[04:08:02] <SWPadnos> no way. some of those FPGAs have 1500 pins
[04:08:18] <fenn> too many pins anyway
[04:08:23] <SWPadnos> I agree
[04:08:47] <SWPadnos> but then, if you want a DDR memory interface, for example, you need about 140 pins for that
[04:09:10] <fenn> ok so 10 ddr buses..
[04:09:15] <fenn> :P
[04:09:20] <SWPadnos> add another 20-32 per GigE
[04:09:48] <SWPadnos> well, 1500 is a lot, but I was surprised to see that I'll probably need around 500 for my digital camera
[04:10:09] <SWPadnos> and many of the higher gate count chips are only available with 700 or more pins
[04:10:36] <Roguish> you know a bit about optical scanners?
[04:11:47] <SWPadnos> optical 3D surface scanners?
[04:11:57] <Roguish> i am trying to do a proposal on an inspection machine to QA a large panel with lots of small holes and a zero defect tolerance.
[04:12:23] <fenn> sounds like a job for a digital camera
[04:12:37] <fenn> how precise does it have to be? and how much time to inspect
[04:12:55] <SWPadnos> well, I hate to say it, but LabView is probably the fastest way to do that
[04:13:12] <fenn> er, what?
[04:13:19] <Roguish> aluminum panel, up to 3m x 3m, with 150k holes. not checking the location or size of holes, just making sure they are clean. no chips or burrs or what not.
[04:13:46] <SWPadnos> ok. that should be pretty easy for the NI imaging library, or Matrox MIL
[04:13:58] <SWPadnos> how small are the holes?
[04:14:04] <SWPadnos> and what depth
[04:14:12] <fenn> hehe a happy pcb http://rifraf.rememberit.com.au/openservo/openservoatmega8-top.png
[04:14:28] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:15:25] <Roguish> holes are stepped. about 3mm od stepping down to .2mm. through holes, also stepped on the back side. plate about 2 inches thick.
[04:16:09] <SWPadnos> interesting. I assume that you can either flip it over, or run it through a "slot" inspection station?
[04:16:50] <Roguish> ya, but i was thinking a scanning head flying over it. maybe back lit.
[04:16:53] <SWPadnos> I guess it could be flat, too.
[04:16:57] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:17:33] <SWPadnos> well, I've never done that kind of thing, but I do know some of the companies that have the components for the systems
[04:17:42] <Roguish> this is real. think large flat panel screen manufacture.
[04:17:53] <SWPadnos> sure
[04:18:35] <Roguish> key here: no defects allowed. none
[04:18:41] <SWPadnos> does it need to be programmable as to the hole patterns, or can you run a "known good" unit through for teaching purposes?
[04:18:44] <SWPadnos> right
[04:19:18] <Roguish> definitely a 'known good' very regular pattern.
[04:19:28] <SWPadnos> ok.
[04:19:54] <Roguish> fast scan and compare algorithm. dsp stuff i think.
[04:20:36] <SWPadnos> well, there are two things to look at at ni.com. one is the vision software, and the second is the compactRIO system
[04:20:51] <Jymmm> Um... how about a $50 flatbed scanner and some OCR software to compare to?
[04:20:51] <SWPadnos> http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/1301
[04:21:12] <SWPadnos> actually, there's hardware as well:
[04:21:18] <SWPadnos> http://www.ni.com/vision/
[04:21:23] <Roguish> no $50, more like $150000
[04:21:28] <A-L-P-H-A> how would you make this kinda hinge? http://www.iwoodnano.com/miniot/video.htm
[04:21:44] <fenn> well you could hire a gang of programmers with that kinda money
[04:21:55] <fenn> but then there would be nobody to sue
[04:22:14] <SWPadnos> and you'd still need a mechanical engineer and an electrical engineer or two ;)
[04:22:18] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: how did THEY hinge it, or how could ONE hinge it?
[04:22:27] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, either! :)
[04:22:42] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A do you care if the hinge is visable?
[04:22:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I can get hardwood for free... my friend's dad has shelves full of the stuff
[04:22:59] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm. I'd like it to be invisible. I wanna make one for myself. for kicks
[04:23:10] <Roguish> i got the mechanical part pretty well covered, but i need an electrical/programmer.
[04:23:20] <SWPadnos> I'd put thin holes in the top cover, small dimples in the bottom, and then put spring pins into the long holes
[04:23:33] <SWPadnos> well, I'm a programmer, and I do some EE
[04:23:37] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, sort of like the watch pins on the bands?
[04:23:41] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:23:46] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3267&refcode=05INFROO
[04:23:49] <Roguish> oh, this is in the East Bay.
[04:24:18] <A-L-P-H-A> those are big.
[04:24:20] <SWPadnos> I don't think this needs a lot of EE, actually. the vision systems are pretty off-the-shelf
[04:24:35] <A-L-P-H-A> those are like 5mm...
[04:25:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess I could do a toung system, and drill a hole all the way down... to make something like a piano hinge.
[04:30:42] <fenn> hmm fun. don't try this in your home directory: mv *
[04:31:13] <fenn> well maybe it only works with 2 files
[04:31:25] <fenn> first one overwrites the second
[04:31:54] <SWPadnos> heh - you end up with at most one file left ;)
[04:40:06] <terr_> anyone home?
[04:42:29] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[04:43:10] <terr_> A-L-P-H-A: ya - appears everyone is out having fun.
[04:43:30] <terr_> prolly playing wiht their cnc machines... their little bots
[04:43:42] <A-L-P-H-A> my cnc lathe, and mill haven't turned on in months.
[04:43:49] <A-L-P-H-A> probably a year.
[04:44:07] <terr_> I'm interested in buying or machine a lathe and milling machine.
[04:44:25] <terr_> buying or making - typo sorry
[04:44:49] <A-L-P-H-A> ebay is your friend. So are local auctions.
[04:45:33] <terr_> did you make yours? or did you buy
[04:46:02] <fenn> * fenn is routing circuit boards
[04:46:09] <fenn> routing as in laying out traces
[04:46:51] <terr_> I don't really know anything - I'm looking at sherline but I think they are a little pricy
[04:50:28] <fenn> check the classifieds, go to local auctions, scrapyards
[04:50:31] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, there are programs that do that for you... you know that right :D
[04:50:43] <A-L-P-H-A> my machines are converts.
[04:50:43] <fenn> A-L-P-H-A: that's what i thought
[04:50:54] <fenn> but apparently the auto-route function doesn't really work
[04:50:55] <terr_> coverts from what?
[04:50:56] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, you have tried www.cadsoftusa.com
[04:51:03] <fenn> that's what i'm using
[04:51:07] <A-L-P-H-A> terr_, manual to cnc
[04:51:09] <fenn> eagle's autorouter is horrible
[04:51:26] <terr_> I see motors (135 in-oz) are 57-75 at sherline.
[04:51:30] <terr_> what model?
[04:51:36] <SWPadnos> fenn, I noticed that
[04:51:53] <fenn> i'm not a huge fan of eagle really but i'm working with someone who is
[04:51:54] <terr_> I can buy a full size milling machine for less than a sherline.
[04:52:00] <SWPadnos> tried routing the demo board on my new Opteron machine, and gave up when it couldn't do it, even in a couple of hours
[04:52:35] <terr_> why couldn't it do it?
[04:53:39] <SWPadnos> I have no idea
[04:54:05] <SWPadnos> I let it run for a long time, and I think it stopped after a couple of hours at 80% or thereabouts
[04:54:15] <terr_> I'd like to try out emc - will it run on a machine w/o the real time additions?
[04:54:59] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, no. not emc2
[04:55:10] <terr_> brb
[04:55:21] <SWPadnos> emc1 can, but it's hard to build
[04:55:44] <SWPadnos> you can boot the puppy live CD though - you don't have to install
[04:55:52] <SWPadnos> oops, coolCNC
[04:58:11] <fenn> SWPadnos: but there are autorouters out there that work as you'd expect, right?
[04:58:45] <SWPadnos> yes
[04:59:20] <SWPadnos> I've used what's now Protel (used to be Tango), and I now have Altium (which is sadly Windows-only)
[05:03:29] <terr_> how much do they cost? what's a good one?
[05:03:47] <SWPadnos> what, autorouters?
[05:03:58] <SWPadnos> (for PCB layout)
[05:04:09] <terr_> wood
[05:04:30] <SWPadnos> totally different ballgame - fenn was talking about designing PC boards, not milling them ;)
[05:04:54] <SWPadnos> wood routers can be had for $2k or so, depending on the performance and size you want
[05:04:55] <fenn> sorry to throw an overloaded operator at ya
[05:05:18] <fenn> or for much less if you're super cheapo
[05:05:24] <SWPadnos> you may be able to build one for less, but you should really know what you're doing ifyou want to go that route
[05:05:24] <fenn> and build it youself
[05:05:54] <SWPadnos> if you value your time at $0.25/hour or more, then buying is probably cheaper in the long run ;)
[05:06:02] <fenn> you prolly wont spend less than $500 building it though
[05:06:31] <terr_> 500 is in the budget buying is over 3000
[05:08:06] <SWPadnos> good night guys. see you later
[05:08:15] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[05:30:04] <terr_> I'm back - what is a good cnc milling machine to look at?
[06:30:32] <fenn> eh none of em are any good
[06:30:50] <terr_> fenn - are you still here?
[06:31:01] <fenn> in spirit
[06:31:26] <terr_> what of say a sherline?
[06:31:34] <terr_> why aren't they any good?
[06:32:12] <fenn> i hear sherline and taig are alright for what they are
[06:32:30] <fenn> someone said taig was a better buy in terms of machine capacity
[06:32:33] <terr_> well they are toys I think. I can buy a full size milling machine for less than a sherline.
[06:32:36] <fenn> dont really know anything about it
[06:32:45] <terr_> tiag is real cheap mind you - but its too small
[06:32:52] <terr_> welcome to the club
[06:32:55] <fenn> yeah if you have the space get an old WWII honker
[06:33:03] <fenn> like a van norman 12
[06:33:08] <fenn> hooah
[06:33:15] <terr_> I could have bought a complete shop for under $2500
[06:33:23] <terr_> I don't knwo about them.
[06:34:09] <fenn> a shop with machine tools for $2500???
[06:34:17] <terr_> just the tools
[10:44:17] <Bo-Dick> does anyone know how "anti-midband resonance" in a stepper motor driver is implemented?
[11:00:41] <fenn> the magnetic field phase angle is changed so that ... er.. yeah
[11:01:25] <fenn> the motor torque is normally at 90 degrees right?
[11:02:17] <fenn> gah i'm not making sense.. way past my bedtime
[11:05:40] <Bo-Dick> hmmm
[11:06:38] <Bo-Dick> does it change the waveform to the motor in some way?
[11:07:11] <fenn> yes but not very much
[11:07:34] <Bo-Dick> do you think it would be very complicated to implement?
[11:07:38] <fenn> i have no idea
[11:07:59] <Bo-Dick> have you made your owm stepper controller?
[11:08:16] <fenn> it moves the point the rotor is attracted to to somewhere else
[11:08:25] <fenn> i havent made a stepper controller
[11:09:04] <Bo-Dick> its a shame there is no information to get on this topic
[11:10:55] <Bo-Dick> i also wonder if it is really necessary to have this feature
[11:11:46] <anonimasu> depends on your app I guess
[11:12:07] <Bo-Dick> im planning to build a cnc stepper controller
[11:12:29] <anonimasu> and what kind of performance you are looking for..
[11:12:50] <Bo-Dick> well my demands arent very extreme i guess
[11:14:18] <Bo-Dick> i want it to work of course
[11:15:10] <Bo-Dick> cant find any info on "midband resonance compensation" on google. that sucks
[11:16:07] <anonimasu> http://www.google.se/search?hl=sv&q=stepper+resonance&spell=1
[11:18:29] <Bo-Dick> thanks
[12:25:50] <giacus> moorning
[14:35:10] <Bo-Dick> I've recently calculated that I've spent 65$ on my non successful stepper driver design. Am I a moron?
[14:35:55] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: Other than than the actual cash loss, did you learn anything? Could it be used on some other application?
[14:36:33] <Bo-Dick> well i guess so. if i'll ever do so is another story
[14:36:52] <Bo-Dick> and after all a gecko costs 114$ PER AXIS
[14:37:00] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: if you leant somethng it's a good thing..
[14:37:21] <anonimasu> but if you were designing something to be better then geckos you are a moron
[14:37:22] <anonimasu> :)
[14:37:30] <Bo-Dick> well ive learnt a lot i think
[14:37:32] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: Dod you enjoy trying to build your own?
[14:37:37] <Jymmm> d/dod/did/
[14:37:40] <anonimasu> that's more important..
[14:37:43] <Bo-Dick> both yes or no
[14:37:59] <Bo-Dick> mixed emotions
[14:38:06] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick $65 sounds like cheap entertainment to me =)
[14:38:09] <anonimasu> making your own drives cheaper then the geckos/better is a hard thing to do
[14:38:39] <Bo-Dick> well i'm sure geckos are damned good but hey, 114$ PER AXIS
[14:38:42] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick and lasted longer than a movie for two plus popcorn and sodas
[14:38:55] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: you are building cnc machines..
[14:39:04] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: a servo are 700eur for one axis..
[14:39:08] <anonimasu> without driver..
[14:39:08] <anonimasu> :)
[14:39:09] <Bo-Dick> well i tried to
[14:39:21] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick ...be a cheap bastard. We know =)
[14:39:30] <Jymmm> lol
[14:39:30] <anonimasu> I think everyone has tried that ;)
[14:39:43] <Jymmm> Yep.... me with the Xylotex
[14:39:54] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: is 114 lots of money per axis?
[14:40:11] <Jymmm> not bad, but would have said headaches buying geckos $500 worth + PS
[14:40:17] <Jymmm> s/said/saved/
[14:40:55] <anonimasu> I've started to calculate time I spend on stuff.. to see if buying is cheaper then building
[14:41:02] <Bo-Dick> wonder how expensive the internal components are...
[14:41:05] <anonimasu> unless I am inspired to do so..
[14:41:12] <anonimasu> want a picture of a gecko internally?
[14:41:15] <anonimasu> I
[14:41:52] <anonimasu> hm cant find it..
[14:42:38] <anonimasu> tere's pretty much stuff inside of them anyway
[14:42:46] <anonimasu> http://www.super-tech.com/root/pictures/Gecko/GeckoG201_010.jpg
[14:43:11] <Jymmm> anonimasu that's the clone, isn't it?
[14:43:36] <anonimasu> no that's a real gecko
[14:43:43] <Bo-Dick> what would you estimate the value of the components?
[14:44:01] <anonimasu> I have no idea
[14:44:13] <anonimasu> even if the components are cheap I wouldnt build one..
[14:45:03] <jepler> are the two large black components the current sense resistors?
[14:45:14] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: It's not the cost of the components, as much as the engineering that goes into them. Much like a it's not the cost of a blank cd, as much as the content on the cd.
[14:45:56] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: you can read up on a dissassembly of a clone somwehre..
[14:46:42] <Bo-Dick> then the design details must be top secret then...
[14:47:02] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: Is there any reason you can't use xylotex?
[14:47:15] <giacus> halloo
[14:47:17] <giacus> :P
[14:47:45] <giacus> * giacus building his website
[14:47:49] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/
[14:47:57] <giacus> do you like that layout ?
[14:48:02] <Bo-Dick> is the xylotex cheaper?
[14:48:05] <giacus> how is look ?
[14:48:08] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: I am sure there's nothing secret about that, but the geckodrives are GREAT drives for the cash..
[14:48:36] <giacus> nice ? or bad ?
[14:48:53] <anonimasu> Bo-Dick: marginally
[14:48:54] <jepler> giacus: I don't see any words on that page
[14:49:05] <anonimasu> ask Jymmm how they work :9
[14:49:11] <giacus> yeah.. but the llok
[14:49:17] <giacus> look, how is ?
[14:49:37] <giacus> to be changed or nice ?
[14:49:39] <Jymmm> They work fine, but lack mid-band dapening
[14:50:20] <Bo-Dick> i've never got a feeling for how important resonance compensation is
[14:51:14] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: If any of your steppers stall for just HALF a second, the piece you were workign on is ruined. Even if you are 99% complete after 6 hours
[14:51:20] <jepler> giacus: content is the most important, looks come after that. It seems fine.
[14:51:45] <giacus> good.. the going on :)
[14:51:50] <giacus> then
[14:52:12] <Bo-Dick> so that is actually gonna happen without resonance compensation!
[14:52:29] <jepler> cradek: have you ever had trouble with resonance on your machine?
[14:53:02] <Jymmm> Bo-Dick: Potentially, yes. It happened to me 4 times on a 24" x 24" sign after about 60 to 90 minutes each time.
[14:53:04] <cradek> I've made many parts perfectly with just half-step drives. It's 100% reliable.
[14:53:47] <Jymmm> cradek and whats the longest travel on your machine?
[14:53:56] <cradek> 7"
[14:54:10] <SWP_Away> it's the velocity that matters, I think
[14:54:13] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:54:40] <cradek> SWPadnos: why?
[14:55:02] <SWPadnos> because resonance is dependent on step rate
[14:55:16] <cradek> oh you don't mean axis velocity?
[14:55:18] <Jymmm> From when I grilled Mariss, it's that pahse transition that's a real bitch.
[14:55:39] <Bo-Dick> wouldn't it be a good idea to sort of avoid that particular speed where resonance occurs?
[14:55:52] <SWPadnos> right, there's resonance at a certain voltage/current phase lag, which is dependent on speed and load
[14:56:14] <SWPadnos> you can't, unless you limit the speed to just under the resonant frequency
[14:56:39] <cradek> Bo-Dick: do you want your machine to be big, fast, both, or neither?
[14:56:42] <Bo-Dick> i was thinking of passing the resonant frequency very quickly
[14:56:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Not necessarily that black and white.... I altered speeds, load, etc it wasn't any one area that did it.
[14:56:50] <SWPadnos> consider that a single axis might have a problem at 10 IPM. what if you go 20 IPM, at a 30-degree angle?
[14:57:05] <SWPadnos> that results in 10 IPM on one axis, continuously
[14:57:19] <Bo-Dick> whats IPM?
[14:57:20] <cradek> Jymmm: maybe your motors are undersized or your machine is sloppy in some other way?
[14:57:30] <cradek> Bo-Dick: american velocity measure: inches/min
[14:57:34] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I don't know all the parameters, but I suspect that varying load would change the resonant frequency
[14:57:35] <Jymmm> cradek: Not from what MAriss said
[14:57:35] <anonimasu> you still will slow down to that speed when doing interpolated moves too..
[14:58:09] <Bo-Dick> so resonance problems will occur mostly under heavy loads?
[14:58:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Heh, actually no, not at all.
[14:58:10] <anonimasu> even if you _pass_ it..
[14:59:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I could tighten the belt a tad too much and make it stall. I could loosen the belt too much and make it stall too.
[14:59:32] <SWPadnos> at the same speed?
[14:59:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos various speeds
[15:00:03] <SWPadnos> that's what I mean, varying load would change the speed where problems occur
[15:00:20] <Bo-Dick> so both from theory and reality: resonance problems should be taken into consideration then?
[15:00:21] <cradek> Jymmm: sounds like your setup barely works at the best of times - that's not my experience with simpler (but much higher voltage) drives
[15:01:49] <Jymmm> cradek: Most of my jobs lately have been short runs about 15 minutes at a time without problems. When I get into longer runtimes the odds go up (obviously) and that's where the geckos would cya.
[15:02:02] <anonimasu> cya?
[15:02:11] <Jymmm> CYA == Cover Your Ass
[15:02:20] <anonimasu> :9
[15:02:22] <anonimasu> :)
[15:02:26] <jepler> For "software" anti-resonance what does the input waveform to the H-bridges look like? Is it different than the normal half- or micro-stepping waveform?
[15:02:28] <cradek> I would also be happy if my machine screwed up something every 15 minutes or so
[15:02:36] <cradek> err be unhappy
[15:02:49] <Jymmm> cradek 15 minutes, no problems at all.
[15:02:58] <Jymmm> even 30 minutes no problems.
[15:03:05] <cradek> Jymmm: maybe you have a heat problem then.
[15:03:22] <Bo-Dick> the steppers i'm gonna use come from 5.25" floppy drives
[15:03:28] <Jymmm> cradek nah, just the odds are catching up. I have thermometer on the motors
[15:03:29] <anonimasu> with the old setup I ran for 5 hours then the PS overheated ;) before I put a fan on there..
[15:04:03] <Bo-Dick> do old floppy stepper drives have anti resonance implemented?
[15:04:10] <cradek> Bo-Dick: certainly not
[15:04:11] <SWPadnos> nope!
[15:04:18] <SWPadnos> one sec, there's a video
[15:04:23] <Bo-Dick> why don't they need anti resonance?
[15:04:34] <cradek> Bo-Dick: because they run slow
[15:04:51] <Jymmm> well, consistant speed with little load
[15:04:52] <SWPadnos> http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/stepper_motor_acceleration.wmv
[15:04:54] <cradek> Bo-Dick: they're probably run full-step unipolar at rated voltage
[15:06:55] <SWPadnos> there are a lot of links (including that video) here:
[15:06:59] <SWPadnos> http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/index.html
[15:07:44] <anonimasu> great demo
[15:08:08] <SWPadnos> yeah, I liked it ;)
[15:08:51] <anonimasu> shows clearly _why_
[15:09:20] <SWPadnos> yep. that's an extreme example, because it's a 7.5 or 15 degree per step motor
[15:09:36] <SWPadnos> but it'll be close to a floppy drive motor, I think (it's a HD motor)
[15:09:42] <Bo-Dick> are hard drive steppers strong?
[15:10:01] <SWPadnos> probably stronger than floppy motors
[15:10:10] <SWPadnos> unless it's an 8" floppy
[15:13:20] <jepler> It's not that I don't believe there's a resonance problem, I just don't understand what you can do in software to correct it.
[15:13:33] <SWPadnos> I don't think you can do anything in software
[15:13:46] <jepler> then what do gecko drives do?
[15:13:49] <SWPadnos> except avoid the troublesome step frequencies
[15:13:57] <SWPadnos> they have hardware compensation
[15:14:09] <SWPadnos> there's no software in a Gecko
[15:15:33] <jepler> maybe "software" is the wrong term
[15:15:49] <SWPadnos> there's no programmable device in a gecko, how's that? ;)
[15:16:04] <jepler> but it's in the electronics, as opposed to changing something about the motor or the mill or the motor-mill coupling.
[15:16:10] <SWPadnos> correct
[15:16:14] <jepler> In my mind, everything before the H-bridge might as well be software
[15:16:22] <SWPadnos> it's a voltage vs current phase angle that gets changed
[15:17:33] <SWPadnos> so with a sufficiently fast DSP and the right sense electronics, you could probably do what a couple of resistors and capacitors do in a gecko
[15:18:47] <cradek> SWPadnos: I think jepler is asking what happens to the H bridge drive signals at certain speeds in order to fix the resonance problem
[15:19:32] <SWPadnos> the timing is shifted, relative to a sensed current, if I understand it correctly
[15:20:03] <skunkworks> so there isn't a pic in the geckos?
[15:20:37] <SWPadnos> nope
[15:20:43] <SWPadnos> that's the Rutex
[15:21:35] <skunkworks> Interesting. I am with jepler - everything before the h-brigde might as well be software.
[15:21:53] <SWPadnos> if the software is fast and accurate enough, sure
[15:22:36] <SWPadnos> remember that in addition to quantization problems, processors of any type also change from continuous-time to a discrete-time domain
[15:22:55] <jepler> In figure 10 (page 5) of http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/an/1679.pdf it shows that full-stepping has a spot where it drops to zero torque, but their half-stepping torque curve doesn't have a spot where torque drops to zero.
[15:24:07] <jepler> (well obviously in both cases the torque goes to zero at extremely high step rates)
[15:24:36] <cradek> full stepping was certainly unusable on my mill
[15:25:03] <cradek> although I still have a feeling that if I could switch to full stepping above a certain speed, it could go faster.
[15:26:10] <skunkworks> I needed to add a pretty big flywheel to my steppers when I was running full step/half stepping.
[15:26:26] <SWPadnos> interesting appnote.
[15:26:38] <SWPadnos> jepler, are you signed up for Yahoo groups?
[15:26:50] <skunkworks> now 1000 steps per rev - no issues.
[15:28:45] <Bo-Dick> guys, i've got a question regarding my h-bridge http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/h_bridge.gif which generated the output http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/h_bridge_output.gif
[15:29:04] <Bo-Dick> you see the first step npn transistor named "Q32"...
[15:29:18] <Bo-Dick> ...it sees the base-emitter voltage: http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/h_bridge_output_q32.gif
[15:29:37] <Bo-Dick> is that harmful to the transistor?
[15:31:39] <SWPadnos> could be. it seems a little hign, but I'm not sure if it exceeds the rated Vbe(max)
[15:31:42] <SWPadnos> high
[15:32:13] <SWPadnos> by the way, you should model the motor coil as a small resistor in series with an inductor
[15:33:34] <Bo-Dick> the sheet says: "absolute maximum ratings, Vebo=5V
[15:34:14] <SWPadnos> then I'd say that the 16Vspike will eventually let the smoke out of the transistors (though it is very short duration)
[15:34:53] <Bo-Dick> what causes this spike?
[15:35:40] <SWPadnos> no idea ;)
[15:36:20] <Bo-Dick> could i put a diode across base and emitter to protect it?
[15:36:53] <SWPadnos> hmm - that's the (emitter - base) voltage, not (base - emitter)
[15:37:15] <SWPadnos> so that's actually a huge negative-going spike
[15:37:43] <Bo-Dick> uuuh... ok
[15:38:00] <SWPadnos> it may be due to asymmetric turn-on vs. turn off times
[15:38:15] <Bo-Dick> what i'm conserned about is if i need protection to the trannies
[15:38:17] <SWPadnos> ie, the lower half may be turned on slightly before the top half is shut off
[15:38:42] <SWPadnos> well, if it is what I just said, then you'll fry the transistors for sure
[15:39:39] <Bo-Dick> what i did when i plotted the trace was that i took the emitter voltage level and subtracted the base voltage level.
[15:39:59] <Bo-Dick> doesn't that give the "base-emitter" voltage?
[15:40:12] <SWPadnos> no, it gives the emitter-baase voltage ;)
[15:40:16] <SWPadnos> base
[15:41:04] <Bo-Dick> crap
[15:41:20] <SWPadnos> it doesn't matter. the voltages are the same, except for the sign
[15:41:37] <Bo-Dick> for semiconductors it matters
[15:42:03] <SWPadnos> for reading the plot, it doesn't
[15:42:28] <Bo-Dick> well the bottom line is that i'll have to add tons of protection diodes to my construction!
[15:42:41] <Bo-Dick> if i don't wanna fry the trannys
[15:42:53] <SWPadnos> no, the bottom line is that you need to prevent the top and bottom halves of the bridge from being on at the same time
[15:43:11] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure how this is normally done
[15:43:16] <SWPadnos> but I know it is ;)
[15:44:03] <Bo-Dick> so i should be considering to redesign my bridge?
[15:44:53] <SWPadnos> kinda. not necessarily the whole thing, but at least adding in the necessary protection
[15:45:05] <Bo-Dick> this is just great since my soldering station broke recently
[15:45:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:45:27] <SWPadnos> that's good. you didn't want to build this one anyway
[15:45:37] <Bo-Dick> i've already spent 65$ on this crappy concept. i haven't realized until now how crappy it is.
[15:45:46] <SWPadnos> it's not a simple problem
[15:46:23] <Bo-Dick> what about "built in" darlington stages. they've got to have an internal protection then?
[15:46:37] <SWPadnos> this has nothing to do with diodes on the base
[15:47:10] <SWPadnos> it's a matter of making sure that all the transistors on one side aren't on at the same time, shorting the power supply directly through them
[15:47:42] <Bo-Dick> well in this design the supply can't be shorted out
[15:48:23] <SWPadnos> unless Q32, A31, A40, and Q41 are all on at the same time
[15:48:27] <SWPadnos> oops - Q40
[15:48:32] <SWPadnos> and Q31
[15:48:37] <SWPadnos> (frozen fingers)
[15:49:45] <Bo-Dick> it still can't short the supply. i've tested this out.
[15:50:08] <Bo-Dick> your mixing up this design with the one where the collectors are connected together.
[15:50:11] <SWPadnos> it looks to me like it does for about 0.1 microsecond per switch
[15:50:48] <Bo-Dick> how can you see that?
[15:51:05] <SWPadnos> I think that's what the large spike on the Veb plot is
[15:53:08] <SWPadnos> I could be wrong about that though, I'm much better with digital electronics
[15:53:20] <Bo-Dick> if the supply would be shorted out the current would generate spikes from the voltage source. this isn't the case. i'll show you a trace from the battery
[15:54:07] <cncuser> hi folks
[15:54:14] <SWPadnos> howdy
[15:54:19] <cncuser> hi swpadnos
[15:54:28] <Bo-Dick> http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/batt.gif
[15:55:17] <SWPadnos> well, I don't know what to tell you
[15:55:56] <SWPadnos> I'm an EE, but I wouldn't design my own stepper drive. I probably shuoldn't be "helping" anyone else do it either ;)
[16:00:58] <Bo-Dick> at the beginning i though stepper drivers were simple
[16:01:11] <Bo-Dick> obviously they arent
[16:01:13] <SWPadnos> everything is simple until you look under the hood
[16:01:43] <skunkworks> I ended up getting sample chips from a semiconductor company about 10 years ago. Said I wanted to try some out to see if I could use them in my projects. Something worth looking into.
[16:03:17] <skunkworks> (I still ended up gettting comercial stepper drives - like gecko)
[16:03:55] <SWPadnos> one more data point. John Kasunich designs large motor drives for a living, and he bought Geckos as well ;)
[16:15:22] <Bo-Dick> thats unbelievable
[16:16:36] <SWPadnos> I'm sure it's not because he can't do it, but just that he values his time, and respects the thought that went into the design
[16:17:07] <SWPadnos> for $350, you can get 3 axes of very good stepper (or servo) drive, with warrantees and that kind of thing
[16:17:40] <SWPadnos> I charge $75/hour for my consulting time, so that's < 5 hours of my time, let alone parts
[16:21:36] <Roguish> SWPadnos, i completely agree. it's often not a good idea to reinvent the wheel. just pay the price.
[16:21:45] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:21:52] <SWPadnos> depends on the application, though
[16:22:05] <SWPadnos> if the idea is to save money and learn something, then designing your own is a good solution
[16:22:18] <SWPadnos> but reserve enough money to replace it when you're done ;)
[16:22:27] <Jymmm> lol
[16:23:47] <Roguish> ah, yes. when i look at a quality drive (stepper or other) there is a lot of stuff there besides the simple h-bridge ic. all that stuff is for something besides looks.
[16:24:06] <SWPadnos> I sure hope so. it cost me $114 ;)
[16:24:19] <SWPadnos> btu I did get the nice anodized aluminum case as well
[16:24:22] <SWPadnos> but
[16:24:24] <Roguish> but is is fun and edumacational to play ................
[16:25:08] <Roguish> i shop surplus and scrap yards for myself, but for clients, i buy new.
[16:27:42] <Jymmm> WTF http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=RAISEALARM-02-28-06
[16:29:44] <SWPadnos> yeah. I saw that on slashdot or something
[16:30:08] <SWPadnos> it's a good thing we're protecting democracy and individual rights all over the world, isn't it?
[16:30:41] <Jymmm> FUCKING PATRIOT ACT.... Should have never been implimented in the first place...
[16:30:57] <Jymmm> Other regulations specify record-keeping requirements, such as logs of fund transfers of $3,000 or more, and of the cash sale of monetary instruments between $3,000 and $10,000.
[16:34:54] <cncuser> ok, im off the net again, bye
[16:47:32] <Jymmm> GPG Vulnerability - http://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-announce/2006q1/000216.html
[16:53:45] <Bo-Dick> does anyone know how a transistor buffer can be designed to have a fast time response?
[17:06:07] <SWPadnos> hmmm - the m5i20 sample config has the servo thread functions in a terrible order
[17:11:20] <Jymmm> http://www.cockeyed.com/citizen/creditcard/application.shtml
[17:14:25] <anonimasu> hm, the z axis is soon done
[17:14:35] <bill2or3> cool cool.
[17:20:59] <anonimasu> now I just need to spend several 100eur to get it running
[17:27:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm. is there a way to cancel a CVS commit when I'm in mc editing the message?
[17:28:20] <jepler> SWPadnos: Yes. If you exit without writing the file, cvs will give you the chance to stop the commit
[17:28:30] <jepler> I think that if you delete all the lines it will too
[17:28:51] <SWPadnos> thanks, I'll try that
[17:29:11] <SWPadnos> great - now I can split the commit up into logical pieces ;)
[17:29:27] <Jymmm> LOL (work safe) http://youtube.com/watch?v=LqloHbHlA40
[17:29:49] <SWPadnos> here's a new one:
[17:29:54] <SWPadnos> swpadnos@cvs.sourceforge.net's password:
[17:29:55] <SWPadnos> *** glibc detected *** free(): invalid pointer: 0x0027c07c ***
[17:31:38] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/configs/common/core_servo.hal: Move pid calculations after the motion-controller functions in servo-thread
[17:33:40] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, that is a funny video ;)
[17:33:51] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/ (m5i20_io.hal m5i20_motion.hal):
[17:33:51] <CIA-8> Add tool-change loopbacks
[17:33:51] <CIA-8> Move hardware write functions to the end of servo-thread
[17:39:01] <SWPadnos> does anyone know why tkemc uses courier 10-pitch (at 48-points) as the default DRO font?
[17:39:28] <SWPadnos> put another way, is there any reason not to change that to just "courier", which looks a lot better?
[17:40:25] <anonimasu> hm I'd like blocky charachters..
[17:40:39] <SWPadnos> it's settable tthrough the menu ;)
[17:41:01] <anonimasu> I know but I dont know any font ;)
[17:41:14] <SWPadnos> use the menu, see what they look like
[17:41:17] <SWPadnos> :)
[17:49:49] <dave-e> can anyone point me to a HPGL viewer/printer for bdi-4.38?
[17:51:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos =)
[17:56:00] <Jymmm> In respect to Tooling (in this case a special v-cutter)... Whats the main diff between solid carbide (@ $60) and carbide tipped (@ $30) besides the pricing?
[17:56:57] <SWPadnos> well, carbide-tipped only has carbide at the tip, not the entire shank
[17:57:22] <Jymmm> go on...
[17:57:29] <SWPadnos> err, that's all I know ;)
[17:57:49] <SWPadnos> as I see it, there are two factors there (aside from price)
[17:57:56] <anonimasu> stiffness
[17:58:12] <SWPadnos> and glue (depending on how the cutter is manufactured)
[17:59:33] <Jymmm> anything I should be aware of?
[17:59:47] <anonimasu> tried carbide tools?
[18:00:39] <Jymmm> some of mine are solid carbide, but I dont have any that are "one of each" to be able to compare side-by-side
[18:01:47] <dave-e> there are two ways to do tips...the insert route where the carbide may be screwed on an entire tip which is threaded on to the shaft
[18:02:01] <dave-e> for fixed stuff it is brazed on
[18:03:05] <dave-e> carbide is nice if your machine is stiff enough to take advantage of it
[18:03:11] <SWPadnos> have you seen V-cutters with screw-in inserts?
[18:03:31] <dave-e> not sure?
[18:03:52] <SWPadnos> I've only seen larger cutters with replaceable inserts, that's why I ask
[18:04:12] <dave-e> some of them go pretty small
[18:04:47] <SWPadnos> maybe I've only been looking for flycutters and the like ;)
[18:04:53] <dave-e> drills maybe down to 3/8"..
[18:05:18] <dave-e> with the entire tip in one unit
[18:08:01] <dave-e> gotta go make some chips.... see ya later
[18:08:34] <Jymmm> ok, what about life of tool? performance? etc
[18:25:25] <anonimasu> hm, better then HSS..
[18:38:04] <jepler> SWPadnos: which OS are you using? The different ones seem to have the nice, scalable, monospaced font under different names.
[18:38:28] <SWPadnos> this is BDI 4.30, displayed remotely on cygwin/X
[18:38:30] <jepler> SWPadnos: The current "courier 10-pitch" was chosen to make ubuntu happy, I think.
[18:38:36] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:38:51] <jepler> SWPadnos: you should be able to use xrdb to set a different font
[18:38:51] <SWPadnos> there's a "courier" option as well, and that looks much better here
[18:39:19] <SWPadnos> there's a font selection menu in tkemc, I was just looking at the default
[18:39:52] <jepler> oh
[18:40:17] <SWPadnos> I think I need to fix the DPI on cygwin as well, but it's not a high priority
[18:43:33] <anonimasu> Jymmm: but it depends on your setup
[18:43:41] <anonimasu> Jymmm: and parameters like cutting speed
[18:44:43] <cradek> SWPadnos: for tkemc, you can put your font preference in the ini ... somehow
[18:45:10] <SWPadnos> yeah. [DISPLAY]POSITION_FONT
[18:46:38] <jepler> you mean .. you can use a menu, the .ini file, or the X resource database (which itself comprises several different files and methods?)
[18:47:19] <cradek> jepler: I think the menu selection isn't saved. It's just there for ... well I don't know why it's there.
[20:37:08] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/standard_pinout.hal: added A axis to standard pinout.
[21:28:41] <Jymmm> LawrenceG!
[21:30:04] <bill2or3> I have a Q. How many linear bearing trucks do I need for a Z-axis? I'm assuming I need 2 rails, and at least 2 truck, but do I really need 4 trucks?
[21:30:47] <LawrenceG> Hi Jymmm
[21:30:51] <Jymmm> bill2or3 travel?
[21:31:21] <bill2or3> maybe 6 inches max.
[21:31:26] <bill2or3> I haven't really decided.
[21:31:46] <Jymmm> mine only has two, and it's travel is 5.5"
[21:31:47] <bill2or3> from what I've found 4-5 inches is common for tabletop mills.
[21:31:59] <bill2or3> two on one rail, or on two parallel rails?
[21:31:59] <Jymmm> 200mm rails
[21:32:14] <Jymmm> two rails, one slide each.
[21:32:41] <bill2or3> are they especially long bearing-carriages?
[21:32:47] <bill2or3> what model mill do you have?
[21:33:07] <Jymmm> gantry router
[21:33:16] <bill2or3> home made?
[21:33:29] <Jymmm> k2cnc.com
[21:33:32] <bill2or3> 5.5" of travel for a router? that seems like a lot.
[21:33:46] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 looks
[21:34:03] <Jymmm> And I have 8.5" clearnace too - customized.
[21:34:24] <anonimasu> more travel is always a good thing
[21:34:31] <anonimasu> leaves room for toolchangers and stuff
[21:34:32] <bill2or3> so 8.5" is the maximum height of the spindle?
[21:34:51] <anonimasu> and well larger workpices
[21:34:58] <anonimasu> pieces..
[21:35:03] <Jymmm> bill2or3 no
[21:35:20] <jepler> "We have been developing routers for the past couple of months"
[21:35:20] <bill2or3> I haven't really decided on the height, but I do have a Z motor/screw assembly from another mill that has 3.5" travel, so I may just use that.
[21:35:46] <jepler> hah. would you buy a mill on ebay designed by someone who says he's been at it a few months?
[21:35:51] <bill2or3> but I dont have anything for rails yet.
[21:35:55] <anonimasu> nope
[21:35:56] <anonimasu> never
[21:36:04] <bill2or3> heh, I wouldn't buy one, when I can make a crappy mill myself.
[21:36:25] <anonimasu> I found a schaublin 13 same as I am converting for 4500eur
[21:36:39] <anonimasu> err mine's a sv13 and a bit older.. :D
[21:37:01] <bill2or3> mine will be a BillMill5000(tm)
[21:37:21] <anonimasu> insane isnt it
[21:39:28] <bill2or3> very.
[21:40:27] <anonimasu> I can understand why the machines are expensive, because of the quality.. but, that expensive
[21:42:27] <bill2or3> I've spent so much more than I planned on that it's not even funny.
[21:42:42] <anonimasu> on what?
[21:42:44] <anonimasu> the mill?
[21:43:40] <bill2or3> and tooling for my micro-mill
[21:43:43] <bill2or3> and mini-lathe.
[21:44:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:17:42] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[23:46:35] <K4ts> night