#emc | Logs for 2006-02-28

[14:38:08] <ValarQ> logger_aj: yes, you already said that
[14:38:08] <ValarQ> I'm logging. I don't understand 'yes, you already said that', ValarQ. Try /msg logger_aj help
[14:38:12] <ValarQ> :/
[14:39:22] <alex_joni> said what?
[14:52:51] <skunkworks> that is funny
[14:55:34] <skunkworks> ValarQ: logger_aj isn't a person.
[14:55:44] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[14:55:44] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-28#T14-55-44
[14:56:43] <skunkworks> it is one of alex's alter AI egos. ;)
[14:56:46] <ValarQ> why does she have to admit that she loggs every time?
[14:59:08] <skunkworks> I guess it is nice to know that it is working. I miss it when it isn't logging.
[15:03:58] <alex_joni> ValarQ: how did you know it's a she?
[15:04:24] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i don't
[15:05:34] <alex_joni> no way it's a she.. it's too quiet for that
[15:05:51] <alex_joni> never seen a she that only listens :D
[15:06:51] <ValarQ> well, to be a logbot it says pretty much
[15:07:21] <alex_joni> lol
[15:07:26] <alex_joni> logger_aj: shush
[15:07:26] <alex_joni> I'm logging. I don't understand 'shush', alex_joni. Try /msg logger_aj help
[15:07:32] <ValarQ> :)
[15:12:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home..
[15:12:22] <alex_joni> later everyone
[15:25:14] <ValarQ> c u
[15:29:46] <cncuser> hi folks
[15:29:53] <cncuser> welcome back alex :)
[16:00:13] <alex_joni> cncuser: hello
[16:58:33] <jepler> I know this isn't exactly an emc question, but has anybody made a serial or spi-type interface in a HAL module? I figure 19.2k or at least 9600 baud should be within the reach of a system that can run steppers.
[16:59:30] <fenn> gee this sounds familiar
[16:59:41] <jepler> fenn: it does?
[16:59:51] <jepler> did I ask this before?
[17:00:04] <fenn> no.. we were talking about it the other day on #robotics
[17:00:25] <fenn> using rs232 as a bus with multiple motor controller chips on it
[17:00:53] <fenn> anyway, go on
[17:02:39] <fenn> rifraf has been making stepper controller boards for a pan/tilt motion-tracker webcam
[17:03:15] <fenn> so i said, if you add another motor you could use it as a cheap cnc stepper driver
[17:04:44] <jepler> oh -- what I have in mind is not to have HAL talk to the computer's rs232 serial port. I meant, be able to do ttl-level serial over any available digital I/O through hal
[17:04:44] <giacus> hello
[17:05:10] <giacus> K4ts come back to naples :(���
[17:05:16] <giacus> :D
[17:06:13] <fenn> jepler: i'm pretty sure you'd have to write a special parallel port driver for that
[17:06:42] <fenn> since there's no hal "shift registers" or byte-splitters or anything
[17:07:01] <fenn> but that'd be extra silly anyway
[17:07:48] <fenn> or maybe not.. hmm
[17:14:09] <fenn> you'd have to set PERIOD to the baud rate right?
[17:14:17] <fenn> or some multiple of it
[17:15:24] <fenn> 2x the baud rate
[17:16:52] <chinamill> Hello
[17:18:39] <fenn> jepler: you could probably snag some of the code from here: http://hubbard.engr.scu.edu/avr/avrlib/docs/html/uartsw2_8c.html
[17:19:07] <fenn> just execute the interrupt code each cycle
[17:20:45] <jepler> fenn: It's true, the bit lengths would be crummy unless PERIOD was a multiple of the bit rate.
[17:23:41] <jepler> and for something like spi, which has a clock signal, it doesn't matter s omuch
[17:23:48] <fenn> yeah
[17:27:27] <fenn> i should ordered some db9 connectors.. oh well
[17:31:11] <jepler> there's always something I "should have ordered", when it comes to parts.
[17:31:31] <jepler> I wish there was somewhere local to buy electronics parts, without paying $6+ for shipping and waiting a week...
[17:32:02] <fenn> there's actually a decent electronics store here, they're pretty pricey though
[17:32:56] <jepler> we don't have "fry's" around here .. just a few radio shacks, mostly filled with crappy consumer electronics
[17:33:06] <jepler> what is the electronics store you're referring to?
[17:33:26] <fenn> stansifer electronics.. it's got aisles and aisles of chips and connectors and tools
[17:33:40] <fenn> family owned i think
[17:33:56] <bill2or3> same here, there's noplace good.
[17:34:06] <bill2or3> SLC, utah.
[17:34:19] <fenn> hmm there's gotta be one in a city that size
[17:37:34] <fenn> jepler: how come kicad isn't more popular?
[17:38:02] <fenn> it would be equal or better than eagle if it had a better part library
[17:38:51] <bill2or3> not that I've found.
[17:39:05] <bill2or3> there's Ra-elco, which is pretty much a giant junk bin.
[17:39:16] <bill2or3> they have stuff, if you can find it. (big if)
[17:39:18] <fenn> heh literally?
[17:39:29] <bill2or3> no, but it's old and disorganized.
[17:39:40] <fenn> there are stores in akihabara in tokyo that are literally full of bins of junk
[17:39:45] <bill2or3> and the guy who works the counter is a clone of Comic Book Guy from the simpsons
[17:39:49] <bill2or3> only wheezier.
[17:40:11] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks about rails.
[17:41:10] <fenn> bah
[17:41:23] <fenn> slap something together before you lose interest
[17:42:12] <bill2or3> heh, you say that like you've known me all my life.
[17:42:23] <fenn> i'm very familiar with incomplete projects, let's say
[17:42:32] <bill2or3> right now the plan is 2 V-wheels holding a round bar.
[17:42:41] <bill2or3> I'm waiting on a boring-head so I can make the mounts for the bar.
[17:42:49] <fenn> how big is the bar?
[17:42:49] <bill2or3> I have the bearings and such.
[17:43:01] <bill2or3> just a hair under an inch, stainless steel.
[17:43:03] <fenn> and is this a permanent thing or the real deal?
[17:43:06] <bill2or3> should be plenty stiff.
[17:43:09] <fenn> hah
[17:43:14] <bill2or3> permanent until I find something better..
[17:43:16] <bill2or3> heh.
[17:43:17] <fenn> it's never stiff enough
[17:43:27] <bill2or3> well, should be reasonably stiff.
[17:43:40] <bill2or3> if I can get the mounting right.
[17:43:59] <bill2or3> and make 12 V-wheels exactly the same.
[17:44:09] <fenn> why do they have to be the same?
[17:44:26] <fenn> they should be adjustable with a cam
[17:45:02] <fenn> or even just a screw that pushes against the axle
[17:45:33] <bill2or3> well, close enough to the same that the table doesnt sit at a 45deg angle.
[17:45:47] <bill2or3> I'll make the wheel-axles adjustable with little set screws.
[17:45:56] <bill2or3> like the ones that hold the gibs on my lathe.
[17:51:42] <fenn> well.. if it's designed kinematically, you can just plane the table off and not worry so much about getting the wheels the same
[17:52:04] <fenn> think about which wheel should be adjustable etc
[17:52:31] <bill2or3> I'd assume all of them, except one.
[17:52:37] <bill2or3> or just all of them.
[17:52:59] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 looks up definition of "kinematically"
[18:10:55] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7578456911
[18:11:00] <bill2or3> looks good, if only they were longer.
[18:15:35] <skunkworks> nice size for a small z axis
[18:16:21] <bill2or3> yeah.
[18:16:40] <bill2or3> I actually bought a complete Z-axis salvaged from a real machine.
[18:16:45] <bill2or3> so that's taken care of.
[18:23:22] <fenn> sorry bill, that probably didnt make sense
[18:23:39] <fenn> kinematic design is using only the minimum number of constraints in a moving part
[18:24:06] <fenn> so for a linear slide, you'd have 5 points of contact between the slide and the way
[18:24:13] <bill2or3> constraints=contact points ?
[18:24:25] <bill2or3> 5 per truck, or 5 per rail?
[18:24:31] <fenn> 5 per axis
[18:24:35] <bill2or3> bwah
[18:24:42] <fenn> trucks arent kinematic
[18:24:44] <bill2or3> for both rails?
[18:25:18] <fenn> yeah for both rails
[18:25:20] <bill2or3> I'm thinking of something like "leading 2" from this page: http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/body_self_made_parts.html
[18:25:49] <bill2or3> only with wheels on each side (top&bottom)of the bar.
[18:25:52] <fenn> yeah that looks good
[18:25:56] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks about 5 points.
[18:26:17] <bill2or3> that's like one v-wheel per corner, and a 5th that holds it all down somehow?
[18:27:37] <fenn> each V-wheel would be 2 contact points
[18:27:59] <bill2or3> so that's 8 right off the top.
[18:28:17] <fenn> yeah you end up doing a triangle-shaped base
[18:28:31] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 is totally confused.
[18:28:38] <fenn> les_w had a design that used a linear rail and a cam follower
[18:28:47] <bill2or3> by base you mean the rail it rides on?
[18:28:50] <skunkworks> our big mill has recurculating needle bearings the axis's
[18:29:14] <bill2or3> I've seen diagrams of the linear slides that recirculate bearings, pretty slick.
[18:29:55] <fenn> the 5 contact points are arranged in a squished pyramid
[18:30:27] <bill2or3> it's not clicking, is there a diagram anywhere I can look at?
[18:30:36] <fenn> kinematic design is not the best thing for machine tools
[18:30:52] <fenn> hang on i'm trying to remember the name of the guy i met at cnc workshop who had a good page on it
[18:31:40] <bill2or3> cool.
[18:32:02] <skunkworks> 0______0
[18:32:02] <skunkworks> 0
[18:32:33] <skunkworks> that didn't work
[18:32:36] <skunkworks> 0______0
[18:32:40] <skunkworks> 0
[18:33:15] <skunkworks> I give up ;) the bottom o is supposed to be between the upper two - like that?
[18:33:21] <skunkworks> the line is the rail
[18:34:04] <fenn> ok i found it in my pda :P http://volnaengineering.com/main.htm
[18:34:08] <bill2or3> Ah
[18:35:18] <bill2or3> and the idea behind using less contact points is that there's less places for inaccuracies to enter the system?
[18:35:37] <fenn> it's totally predictable
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> o o
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> ---------
[18:35:45] <Jymmm> o
[18:35:59] <bill2or3> ahh.
[18:36:19] <Jymmm> is rough, because you have to adjust the center wheel all the time.
[18:36:24] <Jymmm> for tension
[18:36:42] <Jymmm> and if things are not aligned properly it's well, fscked.
[18:37:07] <fenn> what? that's the whole point
[18:37:12] <fenn> you dont have to align anything
[18:37:33] <fenn> bill sorry that page kinda sucked.. it was better with him there explaining everything
[18:37:52] <Jymmm> fenn: That was the design on my original router... it does not work well, that's why they switched it out for hiwin at no charge.
[18:38:35] <fenn> Jymmm: what were the rollers shaped like?
[18:39:23] <bill2or3> fenn, that's cool, it gives me some phrases to google for.
[18:41:11] <Jymmm> http://www.track-roller-bearings.com/guide_wheels.htm
[18:41:14] <fenn> i gotta go, but i think that rods floating in air aren't stiff enough for much anything
[18:41:44] <bill2or3> heh
[18:41:45] <fenn> gotta bolt em to a solid bed every couple inches
[18:48:10] <alex_joni> hi guys
[18:48:51] <bill2or3> hi hi
[18:49:07] <alex_joni> what's up?
[18:49:13] <bill2or3> just working.
[18:49:16] <bill2or3> Zzz
[18:50:07] <alex_joni> lots of snow around here
[18:50:17] <bill2or3> no snow here, but it's pretty chilly.
[18:50:39] <bill2or3> though yesterday was goregous.
[18:52:03] <les_w> 64 and sunny here
[18:52:07] <les_w> but windy
[18:52:24] <Jymmm> tornado warnings north of here
[18:52:32] <alex_joni> it's wintertime over here.. -5 or so (�C) and it snows since this morning
[18:53:35] <bill2or3> I even went home and got a scooter running last night, I was going to ride to work today.
[18:55:23] <les_w> neat.
[18:55:46] <skunkworks> Drove the TT today. Boy I love driving that thing.
[18:55:55] <les_w> I'd be taking a long lunch at the golf course if it wasn't so windy.
[18:56:01] <les_w> it's a neat car
[18:56:07] <skunkworks> les - makes it challenging ;)
[18:57:04] <les_w> Got a call from a second turkey call maker.
[18:57:14] <les_w> tiny order though. 1000 pc.
[18:57:25] <skunkworks> is it up and running?
[18:57:42] <les_w> actually for this I would not use the cnc
[18:58:10] <les_w> but no it's not running. It's about ready, but I have too much engineering work
[18:58:49] <bill2or3> 1000 by hand?
[18:59:25] <chinamill> * chinamill is away: _
[18:59:33] <les_w> in this case he wants juts semi finished ones. Just a hockey puck with beveled sides and a hole in the middle
[18:59:46] <les_w> rosette cutter on bridgeport.
[19:00:12] <les_w> cnc only gets cheaper at about the 10,000 pc level
[19:00:52] <bill2or3> ahh
[19:01:30] <les_w> heck 1000 pcs would only be a day.
[19:02:48] <les_w> So i'll still put my guy in the picture frame business
[19:02:48] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[19:02:55] <les_w> We'll give that a try
[19:03:22] <les_w> walnut with inlayed old barn wood
[19:03:54] <les_w> I'll be busy with engineering though
[19:05:18] <les_w> we might do a celtic spiral carved frame with the cnc
[19:05:34] <les_w> but at 100 an hour to run the machine
[19:05:43] <les_w> it would have to be fast
[19:05:49] <bill2or3> yeouch
[19:06:46] <les_w> let's see if it could do 60 feet an hour.....
[19:07:07] <les_w> wholesale at $8/ft....
[19:07:47] <les_w> so cnc time about half that....
[19:07:56] <les_w> that's $240/hr
[19:08:07] <les_w> that would work
[19:09:04] <les_w> with plenty of fudge factor
[19:09:52] <bill2or3> you'd engrage them still on plank-of-wood form, and cut them out after?
[19:10:24] <les_w> hmmm
[19:10:30] <les_w> not sure
[19:11:16] <les_w> perhaps rip them, mould them, then fill up the cnc table...then off to finish
[19:11:48] <les_w> but v carving is pretty fast
[19:13:47] <les_w> I just want the woodworking section to make some money...the machine spindles are not turning.
[19:14:14] <les_w> And since I am booked up with engineering, It has to be something my guys can do.
[19:20:54] <Jymmm> les_w they could just fuck off eating doughnuts and drinking coffee.
[19:27:04] <les_w> like now?
[19:27:09] <Jymmm> yep
[19:27:25] <Jymmm> except you can buy jelly doughnuts too
[19:27:40] <les_w> actually I have my woodworking guy working on the golf course part time
[19:27:57] <les_w> but that is not making a profit
[19:28:20] <les_w> I want to get him running machines
[19:31:07] <les_w> oh well
[19:31:39] <les_w> I am gonna call about getting a flu shot and some tamiflu
[19:31:49] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/Linear-Slide-Super-Pillow-Block-Thomson-industries-THK_W0QQitemZ7595132927QQcategoryZ78196QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:31:55] <les_w> my client in chicago just had influenza a
[19:31:58] <bill2or3> any guesses on what sort of tolerances that'd have?
[19:32:09] <les_w> If I got that traveling...
[19:32:17] <les_w> looking
[19:32:42] <bill2or3> thanks.
[19:32:57] <Jymmm> http://www.americanbamboo.org/images/BambooBicycle.jpg
[19:33:35] <les_w> bill, yeah I have used that a lot.
[19:33:51] <bill2or3> les, good enough for a X-axis table?
[19:33:54] <les_w> It will typically have a thousandth or so slop
[19:34:11] <bill2or3> that's probablly a lot better than any thing I make would have.
[19:34:12] <les_w> it takes the shape of whatever you bolt it to
[19:34:31] <les_w> so straightness depends onthat
[19:34:39] <les_w> yeah it would work
[19:34:53] <les_w> linear profile rail would work a ton better
[19:35:40] <les_w> but it is $100/meter and $56 per carriage
[19:35:57] <les_w> for 20mm preloaded
[19:35:57] <bill2or3> yeah, I'm making lots of compromi$es
[19:37:30] <Jymmm> les_w: http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/bamboo1966/BambooReinforcedConcreteFeb1966.htm
[19:37:37] <les_w> 65 bucks for that.....
[19:37:40] <giacus> :-)
[19:37:43] <giacus> hello
[19:37:55] <les_w> it would be $300 for profile rail and blocks
[19:38:01] <les_w> hi giacus
[19:38:23] <bill2or3> $65 < $300
[19:38:32] <giacus> hi guys
[19:39:22] <les_w> bamboo is really strong...I made a hang glider frame out of it
[19:41:24] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 buys.
[19:46:51] <giacus> wanna see a sexy pic ?
[19:46:57] <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/tuxmylove.jpg
[19:47:01] <giacus> bauahahahaha
[19:47:02] <giacus> :P
[19:48:40] <giacus> got a new hd ! 120 gb :D installing etch
[19:51:57] <bill2or3> Hawt.
[19:53:13] <giacus> hey bill2or3
[19:53:28] <giacus> got PS ?
[19:53:30] <giacus> :)
[19:53:48] <giacus> next step will be servos !
[19:54:10] <giacus> ;P
[19:55:13] <bill2or3> I ordered a PS yesterday. I allready have steppers.
[19:55:19] <bill2or3> no servos for me.
[19:55:49] <giacus> I know, that why I sayd 'next step' :P
[19:56:19] <giacus> what you bought ?
[19:56:35] <giacus> 6 A ps ?
[19:56:50] <bill2or3> 8.5A
[19:56:54] <giacus> good
[19:59:22] <giacus> I'm suffering to find motors I need here around
[19:59:40] <giacus> but maybe I found something in torino
[19:59:49] <giacus> Dahaner italia :)
[19:59:58] <giacus> I'm asking for quotes
[20:00:21] <giacus> lets see ..
[20:01:08] <giacus> Danaher*
[20:01:29] <giacus> I'm bored to use stepper :(
[20:01:45] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 goes for lunch.
[20:01:59] <giacus> :)
[20:03:15] <giacus> * giacus almost ready fro breakfast :/
[20:06:21] <Jymmm> [12:03:26] * giacus almost ready fro breakfast :/
[20:06:30] <giacus> for*
[20:06:33] <giacus> :)
[20:06:42] <Jymmm> noon here
[20:06:48] <giacus> hehe
[20:07:47] <giacus> we cannot stop the time
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> Yes we can.
[20:07:54] <giacus> * giacus sigh
[20:16:07] <skunkworks> what servo card are you thinking of using?
[20:18:56] <giacus> drivers are geckos
[20:19:14] <giacus> motors are the best I can find
[20:19:19] <giacus> very low inertia
[20:19:43] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Well, this is something of a milestone. It's not official tonight, but maybe we'll hit the number officially tomorrow. Nonetheless, the high water mark for freenode is now 30000 users. Congratulate us. :)
[20:19:55] <giacus> direct drive, no pinion , gears, etc
[20:20:33] <giacus> what I want is a very fast machine
[20:20:51] <jepler> speaking of servos, I bought a pair of small servos to hook up to my etch-a-sketch. But I'm having trouble figuring out from the datasheet how hard I can drive them.
[20:21:13] <giacus> jepler: surplus ?
[20:21:16] <jepler> The datasheet says they're 6 watt, 24V nominal voltage, 41.5 ohm terminal resistance.
[20:21:24] <jepler> giacus: yea
[20:21:38] <SWPadnos> 41.5 ohms is pretty high
[20:21:52] <jepler> but but (24V)^2 / 41.5 ohms is about 14W
[20:22:22] <SWPadnos> yep - and that's the power dissipated (wasted) as heat
[20:22:26] <SWPadnos> not the output power
[20:23:15] <jepler> what does "6 W" mean?
[20:23:31] <SWPadnos> it should be the output power, but who knows
[20:24:05] <lilo> [Global Notice] I guess now would be a good time to hold that mini-fundraiser for 2006-2007 I keep promising. If you like freenode, and you want to help, please go to http://freenode.net/ and look on the top left for the donor buttons. We have monthly options etc., and can certainly use your help
[20:24:22] <lilo> [Global Notice] Regardless of whether you donate though, we *massively* appreciate your helping us get to this point. Thank you for using freenode! :)
[20:24:41] <jepler> If I have 14W of power going in, and I get 6W of output power, doesn't that mean it turns only (14-6)=8W into heat?
[20:24:55] <SWPadnos> hmm - maybe
[20:25:15] <SWPadnos> the back EMF would be proportional to the output power, and the remainder would be heat
[20:28:14] <jepler> the easiest thing for me to do will be to run it off a 12V wall-wart (the currents are small, less than 400mA) with PWM so I think I'll be under 6W in any case
[20:29:27] <SWPadnos> is there a current spec, or was that 400 mA calculated from the voltage/resistance specs?
[20:30:19] <jepler> the "less than 400" I calculated by 12V/41.5 ohm
[20:30:31] <SWPadnos> ok
[20:31:10] <jepler> hm, there is a current spec. "Max. continuous current 244mA"
[20:31:37] <SWPadnos> is there a rated no-load speed?
[20:32:16] <jepler> 3980 RPM (before the 6:1 gearhead)
[20:33:07] <jepler> It's this motor (937 winding): http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/files/catalog/2003/pdf/03_093_e.pdf
[20:33:14] <SWPadnos> ok. there's a way of calculating the torque and voltage constants from all this info, but I don't know it offhand (there's pi in there somewhere, I'm sure)
[20:33:17] <jepler> with encoder and 6:1 gearhead.
[20:34:34] <SWPadnos> hmmm. max power output at nominal voltage: 3230 mW
[20:37:42] <jepler> bbl
[20:37:52] <SWPadnos> see ya
[21:08:28] <dave-e> anyone have some guidance on how pid in emc1 and emc2 relate
[21:08:51] <SWPadnos> should be the same algorithm, I think
[21:09:03] <SWPadnos> though the units are probably different
[21:09:07] <dave-e> and units?
[21:09:14] <SWPadnos> probably different ;)
[21:09:39] <SWPadnos> emc2 uses "user units" throughout - they're only converted to machine units at the driver (or stepgen) level
[21:10:29] <dave-e> I'm having trouble staying out of estop...from following error....have tried P's from 10 to 400
[21:10:39] <SWPadnos> any FF1?
[21:10:47] <dave-e> tried 1 or 2
[21:11:00] <SWPadnos> ok. did you get the scaling thing fixed?
[21:11:10] <jepler> If you're using steppers, do you have the "headroom" for accel and velocity as mentioned in the example ini files?
[21:11:17] <dave-e> yes, kinda...0.001 works
[21:11:32] <dave-e> jepler...stg on mazak
[21:11:48] <SWPadnos> hmmm. you could try to cvs up, jmk fixed the scaling thing last night
[21:12:15] <jepler> dave-e: forget it then
[21:12:19] <dave-e> real pain at this point....no internet to shop
[21:12:58] <SWPadnos> oh yeah
[21:13:30] <dave-e> oh...in the ini is a max output....set to 1.0...is that volts or a scale factor?
[21:14:11] <dave-e> scaling factor
[21:14:15] <SWPadnos> depends on where it goes in HAL
[21:14:42] <dave-e> I assume it is related to pid...it is in that section
[21:15:10] <dave-e> my amps are set so 10 v = max velo
[21:15:44] <SWPadnos> I don't see the max_output setting being used in the .hal files
[21:16:07] <SWPadnos> but it would be in user units, not volts.
[21:16:19] <SWPadnos> the driver would then convert for you (using the scale factors)
[21:16:37] <dave-e> I suppose I could set it to 5 or 10 and see what happens....the dacs will only put out so much
[21:17:02] <SWPadnos> max output won't change anything, since it's not used in the hal files
[21:17:13] <dave-e> ok
[21:18:19] <SWPadnos> that's one somewhat confusing thing about emc2 - there are settings in the ini file, but they're not really used from there (the axisn ones anyway)
[21:18:45] <SWPadnos> those settings are connected to various HAL parameters in the hal files (core_servo, stg_io and stg_motion, in your case)
[21:19:22] <dave-e> guess I'll go back a play awhile...
[21:19:31] <SWPadnos> do you get following errors when you command slow moves?
[21:19:44] <dave-e> yes
[21:19:45] <SWPadnos> (<10% of the max vel)
[21:19:58] <dave-e> and lower
[21:20:04] <SWPadnos> ok, and you know that feedback is correct
[21:20:28] <SWPadnos> turn the screw one time, and get 10mm on the display
[21:20:34] <dave-e> well I wonder but I've tried both ways...
[21:20:49] <dave-e> encoders are correct...for scale and sign
[21:21:06] <dave-e> axis moves pos with pos dac voltage
[21:21:21] <SWPadnos> ok. how far does it go before you get an error?
[21:21:26] <dave-e> mm
[21:21:42] <dave-e> even with the following error set to 10 and 30
[21:21:51] <SWPadnos> did you set it up for mm, or convert to inch?
[21:22:08] <SWPadnos> err - leave it set up for mm, or convert ....
[21:22:12] <dave-e> left it in mm for now ...didn't want to change everything as once
[21:22:40] <dave-e> once I get predictable motin then I can change
[21:22:44] <dave-e> motion
[21:22:45] <SWPadnos> ok.
[21:23:18] <SWPadnos> one thing to look at is (as jepler mentioned) the PID headroom. I don't see anything in the stg files for this
[21:23:19] <dave-e> guess I'd better go tackle it....
[21:23:26] <dave-e> be back later
[21:23:28] <SWPadnos> see you
[22:46:56] <Jymmm> anyone know anything about vacuum pumps?
[23:16:27] <robin_sz> Jymmm: yeah, they suck :)
[23:16:58] <robin_sz> I presume you mean for vacuum hold-down / clamping?
[23:17:19] <Jymmm> mold making
[23:17:38] <Jymmm> plastic mold making, to suck around a die
[23:17:45] <robin_sz> right
[23:18:10] <robin_sz> I suspect an ordinary domestic cleaner would work
[23:18:23] <robin_sz> as the cycle time is short
[23:19:03] <robin_sz> they typically suck down to around 700mb
[23:19:22] <robin_sz> so .. 5psi ...
[23:21:24] <robin_sz> piston pumps tend to be slow, but develop high vacuum, need some sort of resevoir to suck down fats
[23:21:36] <robin_sz> rotary pumps are better, but F espensive
[23:22:13] <robin_sz> a domestic cleaner might just be enough, and certainly cheap!
[23:22:45] <Jymmm> Well, I was gonna use a chop vac to remove the mass volume, then a vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
[23:22:50] <Jymmm> s/chop/shop/
[23:24:04] <Jymmm> valves are cheaper than pumps =)
[23:24:08] <robin_sz> just put a resevoir on the vac pump?? old heating gas cylinder
[23:24:56] <Jymmm> still takes time, and the plastic aint gonna wait that long before cooling
[23:24:57] <robin_sz> propane cylinders are natures way of giving high quality pressure vessels to the poor engineers :)
[23:25:05] <Jymmm> lol, no doubt.
[23:25:31] <cncuser> good evening
[23:25:45] <robin_sz> so long as the cylinder is bigger than your mold by a good factor, it should suck down hard and FAST
[23:25:47] <Jymmm> but I have a 4hp shopvac that would give the best hooker a run for her money.
[23:26:20] <robin_sz> I killed mine trying to do vacuum clamping eith it :)
[23:26:24] <les_w> hey robin, jymmm
[23:26:28] <Jymmm> hi les_w
[23:26:33] <robin_sz> meep
[23:26:47] <robin_sz> sigh .. banned from #debian for tellling a joke :)
[23:26:54] <les_w> was out at cousins woodlot
[23:27:05] <Jymmm> robin_sz I was thinking a vacuum switch that cut off the shopvac once it got to a certain level and let the vacuum pump take over.
[23:27:20] <les_w> had to trade that 4 foot diameter oak log
[23:27:26] <robin_sz> possibly, but the vac pump alone will be sloooooow
[23:27:44] <les_w> Well cut some wanut for me for exchange
[23:27:47] <robin_sz> les_w, 4 foot!
[23:27:54] <les_w> yeah
[23:27:57] <les_w> 130 years
[23:27:58] <les_w> old
[23:28:03] <robin_sz> at least ....
[23:28:14] <les_w> oh I counted the rings
[23:28:14] <Jymmm> robin_sz: That's why I was thinking the best of both worlds.... shopvac to remove the mass volume, then then the vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
[23:28:32] <Jymmm> les_w did you keep any of it?
[23:28:36] <les_w> vacuum clamping?
[23:28:45] <Jymmm> les_w thermoforming
[23:28:50] <robin_sz> personally, I think the plastic will cool before the vac pump can do anyting
[23:28:52] <les_w> I traded it for some walnut logs
[23:29:00] <Jymmm> les_w all of it?
[23:29:04] <les_w> yeah
[23:29:25] <les_w> several 18-24" diam walnut logs
[23:29:38] <les_w> we'll saw em on the woodmizer.
[23:29:55] <robin_sz> Jymmm: if it was me, id let the vac pump suck a cylinder down hard as a resevoir, then use that to do the foring hard and fast.
[23:30:45] <robin_sz> anyway ... that or buy a Reischle pump :)
[23:30:59] <Jymmm> I dont think I could afford that much vacpump, even with resevoir
[23:31:00] <les_w> yup
[23:31:12] <les_w> ITW has a thermoforming division
[23:31:13] <Jymmm> this? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3952
[23:31:23] <les_w> they use some kind of 2 stage thing
[23:31:25] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is now confused
[23:31:50] <les_w> also, big vacuum tanks work....
[23:31:59] <les_w> use old propane bottles
[23:32:25] <Jymmm> les_w thats what robin just said
[23:32:30] <les_w> ah
[23:32:34] <les_w> haha
[23:32:45] <giacus> hey robin_sz !
[23:33:23] <giacus> robin_sz: my cousin is tartint to build a plasma cnc
[23:33:30] <giacus> starting*
[23:33:42] <robin_sz> giacus: no chance of changing his mind?
[23:33:47] <les_w> haha
[23:33:49] <giacus> yeah
[23:34:10] <les_w> i wouldn't mind one meself
[23:34:11] <giacus> he decided to use stepper !
[23:34:12] <robin_sz> nasty horrible dirty things ...
[23:34:19] <robin_sz> steppers are a good choice
[23:34:23] <giacus> hahaha
[23:34:26] <les_w> stepper...aieee
[23:34:30] <giacus> you forgot maybe
[23:34:41] <robin_sz> no
[23:34:43] <robin_sz> I remember
[23:34:45] <giacus> yes, stepper for a plasma cutter
[23:35:12] <giacus> I show him the photo of your plasma machine
[23:35:17] <Jymmm> HEY! This will be perfect for thermoforming!!! http://search.ebay.com/5668699764
[23:35:23] <giacus> which slides are you using ?
[23:35:32] <robin_sz> slides?
[23:35:37] <robin_sz> on a plasma machine?
[23:35:39] <giacus> yeah
[23:35:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz screams
[23:35:42] <giacus> dunno
[23:35:46] <giacus> what are ?
[23:36:00] <robin_sz> use IGUS rail
[23:36:10] <robin_sz> plastic on aluminium anodize
[23:36:29] <robin_sz> NOT normal linear rail ...
[23:36:38] <robin_sz> it dies very quickly.
[23:36:40] <giacus> robin_sz: do ou have any link to learn more about it ?
[23:36:53] <robin_sz> www.igus.com?
[23:37:00] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is guessing
[23:37:20] <giacus> I checking ..
[23:38:12] <giacus> mmm
[23:38:24] <robin_sz> http://www.igus.com/show_dt.asp
[23:38:27] <robin_sz> try that
[23:38:53] <giacus> his plasma is 2kw
[23:39:01] <robin_sz> oh.
[23:39:03] <giacus> about 4 cm depth cut
[23:39:08] <robin_sz> ?!
[23:39:12] <robin_sz> no chance.
[23:39:20] <robin_sz> 2kw is TINY plasma
[23:39:29] <giacus> yeah ..
[23:39:36] <robin_sz> 4mm more like!
[23:39:46] <giacus> cm
[23:39:53] <giacus> he cant cut 4 cm
[23:39:57] <giacus> can
[23:40:02] <giacus> not mm
[23:40:05] <robin_sz> not with 2kw he cant
[23:40:15] <giacus> he sayd so
[23:40:27] <robin_sz> he is mistaken then about the power
[23:40:43] <giacus> uhmm
[23:40:51] <robin_sz> here is standard calc:
[23:40:53] <giacus> I dno't know the right term
[23:40:53] <jepler> http://pottery-glass.search.ebay.com/bowel_Pottery-Glass_W0QQcatrefZC2QQfmcZ1QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfstypeZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZ870
[23:41:04] <robin_sz> plasma runs around 120V ok?
[23:41:06] <giacus> its 'troncatrice plasma' 2 Kw
[23:41:13] <giacus> nope
[23:41:21] <giacus> maybe is 380 V
[23:41:23] <giacus> oe more
[23:41:26] <giacus> or
[23:41:46] <giacus> we have 220 V and 380
[23:41:47] <robin_sz> well, not like any plasma I have ever seen then ...
[23:41:50] <jepler> (including my favorite item, "PINK DEPRESSION BOWEL
[23:41:51] <jepler> ")
[23:41:58] <giacus> but I know he use more of 380 V
[23:42:11] <jepler> NO CHIPS OR SCRATCHES !
[23:42:14] <robin_sz> a 20A plasma would run around 120V, a 100amp one touches 160V ...
[23:42:16] <giacus> :)
[23:42:22] <robin_sz> anyway ...
[23:42:37] <giacus> let me translate gruppo elettrogeno
[23:42:38] <robin_sz> 100Amps will pierce 15mm, and cut (just) 30mm
[23:42:47] <giacus> he use a 'gruppo elettrogeno'
[23:42:51] <robin_sz> 50 amps does half that
[23:42:54] <giacus> up to 380 V
[23:42:57] <SWPadnos> heh - a punch bowel set, or a wooden sald bowel set - decisions decisions
[23:43:08] <giacus> for what I know ..
[23:43:38] <robin_sz> 1 100amp plasma is about 15kw ...
[23:44:09] <giacus> OK, I agree with you
[23:44:28] <giacus> how much thickness he can cut ?
[23:44:47] <giacus> I can say you later..
[23:45:09] <giacus> he sayd 4 cm
[23:45:13] <robin_sz> http://www.innerlogic-inc.com/files/SR-100i%20With%20Ohmic%20Cutting%20Charts.pdf
[23:45:16] <robin_sz> read that
[23:45:18] <Jymmm> I know you wanted a vacuum pump, but... http://search.ebay.com/5671968722
[23:45:33] <Jymmm> robin_sz ^^^^^^^^^^^6
[23:46:52] <robin_sz> giacus: that sis a typical 100 amp plasma ... 160V, 100 amps, cuts 32mm, 16Kw .. if you friend can cut 40mm with 2Kw then he will be a millionaire very soon with his invention that is 5 times more effective than the current technology
[23:47:28] <giacus> robin_sz: thats would be great
[23:47:36] <robin_sz> Jymmm: too small ;)
[23:47:49] <giacus> I'm not sure
[23:48:04] <Jymmm> robin_sz: Then why did you bid on it (you're near Kent aren't ya?)
[23:48:19] <giacus> what I know is he nedd more then 3.5 kw
[23:48:28] <dmessier> bonjour tous
[23:48:35] <giacus> buongiorno :)
[23:48:53] <Jymmm> damn, any vacuum pump on ebay is $$$
[23:49:05] <robin_sz> Jymmm: just buy it .. you kow you want to.
[23:49:06] <dmessier> comme' est'ai
[23:49:15] <robin_sz> Jymmm: and no im not even near kent
[23:49:23] <dmessier> how much you gotta pull??
[23:49:24] <giacus> robin_sz: btw he's working on a plain
[23:49:29] <robin_sz> Jymmm: and anyway kent is where the SELLER is ..
[23:49:32] <robin_sz> sigh.
[23:49:42] <Jymmm> dmessier thermoforming
[23:49:45] <robin_sz> giacus: aeroplane?
[23:49:50] <giacus> I want to show you it after he will finish it
[23:49:54] <giacus> nahh
[23:49:59] <giacus> plan
[23:50:03] <robin_sz> plan
[23:50:03] <giacus> :)
[23:50:20] <dmessier> you van vaccum bag with a good shop vac... ; )
[23:50:37] <dmessier> can
[23:50:46] <giacus> dmessier: how are the chickens there ?
[23:50:49] <Jymmm> dmessier: going to use a shopvac for remove the mass volume, then a vacuum pump to pull in the detail.
[23:50:51] <dmessier> how thk???
[23:52:25] <dmessier> chickens???
[23:52:30] <giacus> I'd like to see robin_sz in rome, speak italian ]:))
[23:52:36] <giacus> hahaha
[23:52:46] <giacus> robin_sz: do you accept ?
[23:53:28] <dmessier> i know sign languge ... so im ok in french/spanish and especially italian..
[23:54:04] <giacus> dmessier: where you from ?
[23:54:09] <dmessier> canada
[23:54:14] <giacus> ho nice
[23:54:30] <giacus> I was thinking francia
[23:54:41] <giacus> french
[23:54:57] <dmessier> we're the largest contry in the world you know..??
[23:55:05] <SWPadnos> Russia
[23:55:09] <dmessier> frenglish...
[23:55:19] <dmessier> NOT russia
[23:55:19] <SWPadnos> Canada is #2
[23:55:33] <giacus> that ok
[23:55:35] <dmessier> Canada is #1
[23:55:46] <giacus> but 30 % popoulated
[23:55:50] <robin_sz> * robin_sz can believe that
[23:56:04] <robin_sz> huge when you think of it ...
[23:56:08] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is thinking China
[23:56:12] <robin_sz> from mexico right to the pole
[23:56:15] <giacus> hahaha
[23:56:15] <dmessier> russia / ussr was... now just a bunch of 'stans
[23:56:17] <giacus> lol
[23:56:47] <robin_sz> canada isnt a real country is it? I thought it was a state?
[23:56:52] <dmessier> we have 90 % of our population living in 10 % of our real estate...
[23:57:02] <SWPadnos> http://geography.about.com/od/countryinformation/a/bigcountries.htm
[23:57:05] <dmessier> FACK OFF ROBOI
[23:57:13] <giacus> haha
[23:57:29] <robin_sz> oh, wait, George Dubya hasnt annexed it yet .. thats next year
[23:57:29] <SWPadnos> that's Russia, *not* the USSR
[23:58:15] <giacus> apt-get update !
[23:58:21] <dmessier> not believing... SORRY
[23:58:26] <robin_sz> funny how cannoks always get upset when you pretend they are part of the USA.
[23:58:29] <SWPadnos> the US is also #3 in population, behind China and India
[23:58:33] <giacus> apt-get install ntpdate :d
[23:59:23] <dmessier> if ALL the chinese decide to JUMP at the same time... the planet wobbles... i've modeled it..
[23:59:31] <SWPadnos> and for more relevant information: http://www.aneki.com/beautiful.html
[23:59:41] <giacus> mmm
[23:59:59] <giacus> there's enough space on mars