#emc | Logs for 2006-02-25

[00:11:34] <robin_sz> sorry les_w was AFK
[00:11:46] <robin_sz> aluminium is a git ...
[00:11:47] <jmk_sleep> jmk_sleep is now known as jmkasunich
[00:12:15] <robin_sz> c02 is fine for it, you just need lots of it .. YAG is good too, its easy to etch
[00:12:28] <robin_sz> but you do need "significant" power
[00:20:15] <les_w> well, I will be up in chicago helping a freind start a business. He just bought a 50 watt yag.
[00:20:31] <les_w> doing that among other things
[00:20:36] <bill2or3> Mmmlasers
[00:20:50] <les_w> so you like leds huh bill?
[00:21:00] <bill2or3> indeed.
[00:21:28] <les_w> Me too. I developed the first aircraft led annunciator, in the boeing 777.
[00:22:30] <bill2or3> did you see that led-as-input-device link that from earlier in the week?
[00:23:06] <les_w> on the latest invention I ran the ir led on the short wavelrngth side of the fermi energy. Much better tempco
[00:23:16] <les_w> no I did not see it
[00:23:25] <bill2or3> http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000873073550/
[00:23:34] <bill2or3> there's a video linked from there, that's worth watching.
[00:24:44] <les_w> ever tried using an led fas a photodiode?
[00:25:01] <bill2or3> a bit, I was into beam robots for a few months
[00:25:02] <les_w> works pretty well
[00:25:51] <Jymmm> les_w what material are you wanting to laser?
[00:26:09] <bill2or3> my noisy co-workers.
[00:26:13] <bill2or3> they need etching.
[00:26:48] <les_w> If the latest invention goes...I will need to do an automated impedance trim of a fourth order acoustic system
[00:26:58] <les_w> blasting aluminum
[00:27:19] <les_w> and zirconium doped lead titanate
[00:27:20] <Jymmm> les_w so you want to laser aluminum?
[00:27:28] <les_w> yeah
[00:27:39] <Jymmm> les_w depth?
[00:27:47] <les_w> cut .005
[00:28:17] <robin_sz> yag is the baby for that .. q switched
[00:28:19] <les_w> very very quicky
[00:28:38] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 runs along home
[00:29:12] <Jymmm> les_w: From what I've learned CO2 wont do anything to metal, yag is probably what you want. Ironically CO2 can etch stone - very nicely I might add =)
[00:29:20] <les_w> well I want to trim transducers to frequency
[00:29:27] <les_w> I ran a yag for years
[00:29:35] <les_w> trimming resistors
[00:29:40] <robin_sz> Jymmm: co2 wont do anything to metal?
[00:29:53] <robin_sz> les_w: shh ;)
[00:29:54] <les_w> it was q switched optically pumped
[00:30:00] <les_w> haha
[00:30:15] <les_w> co2 is not so good on al
[00:30:38] <les_w> I am trying to help a freind that just bought a 50w doide pumped yag
[00:30:47] <les_w> friend
[00:30:49] <les_w> haha
[00:31:08] <robin_sz> well, co2 is indeed worse on ally than yag, in terms of absorbtion coefficient ..
[00:31:10] <les_w> I designed 2000w co2 laser cnc a long time ago.
[00:31:23] <robin_sz> but with ally, its all about melt power
[00:31:28] <les_w> yeah
[00:31:37] <robin_sz> so, usually, co2 wins
[00:32:09] <robin_sz> getting decent beam quality for cutting above about 1200w is tricky with yag
[00:32:26] <robin_sz> mainly due to neam delivery issues
[00:32:30] <robin_sz> beam
[00:32:33] <les_w> I just want to trim an assembly consisting of a pzt wafer and an aluminum resonator to frequency
[00:32:38] <les_w> in a heatbeat
[00:32:55] <les_w> compensated for cutting temp rise and all that
[00:32:57] <robin_sz> Jymmm: for info, 99% of all laser cut metal is done with co2
[00:33:05] <les_w> heartbeat
[00:33:11] <les_w> I did hit the r.
[00:33:26] <robin_sz> heatbeat was a good typeo
[00:33:32] <les_w> yeah!
[00:33:59] <les_w> cellphone crystal trimming is prob a good model to follow
[00:34:11] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:34:25] <les_w> I want the thing to sound like a machine gun
[00:34:32] <robin_sz> heh
[00:34:41] <robin_sz> how many of these thing you need to trim?
[00:34:44] <les_w> brrrt... box full.
[00:34:54] <les_w> not sure...
[00:35:00] <les_w> it would be big
[00:35:10] <les_w> 100,000/yr?
[00:35:19] <les_w> actually that is little
[00:35:23] <robin_sz> indeed
[00:36:10] <les_w> pc based...yag....
[00:36:19] <les_w> remember 4th order
[00:36:34] <les_w> so to things to trim to match
[00:36:47] <les_w> input is an impedance curve
[00:36:57] <robin_sz> id talk to the laser marker boys ..
[00:37:07] <les_w> will be
[00:37:21] <les_w> that 50w thing is a laser marker
[00:37:26] <robin_sz> but remember, "from what ive learnt, co2 wont touch metal" ;)
[00:37:35] <les_w> I know
[00:37:54] <les_w> I used copper, brass, and aluminum as stencils
[00:38:04] <les_w> cut steel ok
[00:38:16] <robin_sz> co2 on copper is like a mirror
[00:38:19] <robin_sz> infact ...
[00:38:30] <robin_sz> the mirrors in my 1700 watter are copper
[00:38:46] <les_w> emissivity of non ferrous base metals is about .1 at 10.6 micron
[00:38:54] <les_w> at most
[00:39:10] <robin_sz> the yag cuts copper though.
[00:39:13] <robin_sz> oh yes
[00:39:15] <les_w> yeah makes ok mirrors
[00:39:26] <robin_sz> gold is better ;)
[00:39:31] <les_w> yup
[00:40:04] <les_w> well just thinking ahead
[00:40:07] <robin_sz> everytime the nozzle gets moved by a bit of sticky up metal, the YAG makes a little cut in it .. and goodbye nozzle
[00:40:24] <les_w> because if it goes (and it looks good) the factory is mine
[00:40:30] <robin_sz> heh
[00:40:34] <robin_sz> neato
[00:40:40] <les_w> I like it
[00:41:10] <les_w> so I have an invention with an already established market
[00:41:19] <les_w> If it works, it is sold.
[00:41:24] <robin_sz> nice
[00:41:29] <les_w> I like that plan
[00:41:35] <robin_sz> perhapsa a seneca then?
[00:41:46] <les_w> huh?
[00:42:05] <robin_sz> well, a nice twin anyway, rtaher than a single
[00:42:07] <les_w> car?
[00:42:18] <jmkasunich> plane I think
[00:42:22] <les_w> ohhhh
[00:42:38] <robin_sz> THAT seneca :)
[00:42:41] <les_w> an archer would suit me fine
[00:42:50] <les_w> I guess I can buy one.
[00:43:03] <robin_sz> get a pair .. one and a spare
[00:43:08] <les_w> haha
[00:43:10] <robin_sz> full airways, of course
[00:43:21] <les_w> don't want to get a doctor killer...
[00:43:25] <les_w> you know...
[00:43:49] <les_w> lots of money...buy a plane beyond your skills and experience
[00:43:58] <robin_sz> yeah ...
[00:44:12] <les_w> bonanza is the classic doctor killer
[00:44:17] <robin_sz> just practice a lot. problem solved :)
[00:44:22] <les_w> haha
[00:44:47] <robin_sz> gotta go get a new barrel on the rifle tomorow
[00:44:56] <les_w> ah
[00:45:04] <les_w> 4130 or something?
[00:45:12] <robin_sz> took it for testing ... previous 13mm group had opened up to 18mm +
[00:45:33] <les_w> I still have not finished my flintlock...too busy
[00:45:47] <robin_sz> since 21mm is the 9 ring, thats not alot of leeway
[00:45:53] <les_w> heh
[00:46:03] <robin_sz> so .. nice new stainless barrel
[00:46:11] <les_w> oh
[00:46:22] <robin_sz> Lothar Walther match grade
[00:46:31] <les_w> expensive
[00:46:46] <robin_sz> I have a friend in the trade :)
[00:48:37] <les_w> we are all doing well . the economy is good.
[00:48:49] <les_w> Prob live off of porrige next year
[00:48:58] <les_w> porrdge?
[00:49:02] <les_w> ach
[00:49:25] <les_w> porridge!
[00:50:48] <les_w> today, Lexus. tommorow, tin cup.
[00:51:11] <les_w> Alms...Alms for the poor...
[00:51:29] <jmkasunich> today, chevy and the rest in the bank
[00:51:34] <jmkasunich> tomorrow, still chevy
[00:51:39] <jmkasunich> smarter
[00:51:51] <les_w> aw john you are to smart and practical
[00:52:47] <jmkasunich> my parents lived thru the depression, and their principles stuck to me
[00:52:56] <les_w> quit that job and start a business. High on the hog today...starve tommorow
[00:53:07] <les_w> My parents did too
[00:53:24] <les_w> the principals did not stick to me i guess
[00:53:31] <les_w> principles
[00:53:47] <les_w> principals just put me in detention.
[00:54:39] <les_w> you know john, If I had real financial security.....I'd go crazy.
[00:54:46] <les_w> heh
[00:55:18] <jmkasunich> thats what drives you?
[00:55:34] <les_w> well...to be honest....
[00:56:12] <les_w> my kids are grown. I am single. I don't owe a cent. I won't either.
[00:56:16] <les_w> so...
[00:57:06] <les_w> I can do wild ideas and stuff.
[00:57:22] <les_w> As long as I DON"T BORROW MONEY!!!
[00:57:28] <les_w> never again.
[00:57:46] <les_w> it's a great feeling
[00:57:54] <jmkasunich> agreed about borrowing
[00:58:34] <les_w> I really feel like a freed slave.
[01:00:05] <les_w> again, to be honest, inheriting this old farm helped.
[01:02:58] <jmkasunich> no mortgage ;-)
[01:03:07] <les_w> none
[01:03:09] <les_w> finally
[01:03:41] <les_w> I pay the electric, gas and water.
[01:03:47] <les_w> and car insurance
[01:03:53] <jmkasunich> and porridge
[01:04:06] <les_w> sometimes
[01:04:24] <jmkasunich> all the time (porridge = whatever you happen to be eating)
[01:05:04] <les_w> I am throwing a lot of money into expanding the shop.
[01:05:25] <les_w> why not? Sales are growing exponetially
[01:05:58] <jmkasunich> where are you expanding? near the existing shop?
[01:06:14] <les_w> But soon I may have to commute.
[01:06:25] <les_w> yeah adding to the back
[01:06:44] <les_w> separate rooms for an electonics lab and metalworking
[01:07:02] <jmkasunich> keep the sawdust out
[01:07:10] <les_w> exactly
[01:07:31] <les_w> also, I am having my employees do the wood stuff.
[01:07:39] <les_w> I don't need to be there.
[01:08:01] <les_w> I need to be fiddling with impedance analyzers I guess
[01:08:40] <les_w> But soon I will have to commute.
[01:08:56] <les_w> I will only live here on the weekends I guess
[01:09:45] <les_w> I cannot get skilled labor here for what I need to do
[01:10:02] <les_w> so it's atlanta or greenville, sc I guess
[01:10:56] <les_w> i'll find out more when I get to chicago and see what they want me to do.
[01:11:39] <les_w> forthe latest invention I am to be the manufacturer they said.
[01:11:43] <les_w> If it flies
[01:11:56] <les_w> and it's looking good in the lab
[01:12:21] <les_w> I think we have a weiner here.
[01:13:10] <les_w> if not, porridge.
[01:35:35] <tfmacz> Hi LawrenceG you watching this
[01:44:03] <LawrenceG> hi Ted
[01:47:03] <les_w> hi tfmacz and lawrence
[01:47:40] <les_w> quiet friday.
[01:47:50] <jmkasunich> very
[01:48:02] <LawrenceG> yup... supper time here
[01:48:24] <les_w> rain all weekend here I think
[01:48:29] <les_w> no yard work
[01:48:54] <les_w> the dafodils have bloomed though
[01:49:16] <LawrenceG> tfmacz is a new emc user.... he built a small router from scratch (about 10"x10"x3"... started with 3 steppers from junked printers and it grew from there
[01:49:29] <les_w> oh neat
[01:49:56] <LawrenceG> he really likes the new ubuntu emc2 combo...
[01:50:11] <les_w> nema 17 power!
[01:50:45] <LawrenceG> He is already cutting 700k gcode files.... actually I think they are close to nema 23 size... running 1/4 step drivers
[01:50:55] <les_w> I have not made any changes other thanthe new spindle...a little busy.
[01:51:14] <les_w> I had to rewire the shop
[01:51:17] <LawrenceG> have you made it spin yet?
[01:51:33] <les_w> wire is more like stiff copper rods...
[01:51:58] <LawrenceG> yea... some of that stuff, you need a conduit bender
[01:52:15] <les_w> no, I haven't. I have to install a bit more #6 and 8
[01:52:38] <jmkasunich> 6 and 8? thats skinny stuff
[01:52:56] <les_w> I had to stop working on it a bit. too busy.
[01:53:15] <les_w> I made a mistake underwiring the place
[01:53:25] <jmkasunich> you can never have too much power
[01:53:31] <LawrenceG> I have been helping a buddy put a new 200amp service in his house.... the feed from the meter is some Aluminum direct burial tec about the size of ones arm
[01:53:35] <les_w> I am learning that
[01:54:21] <les_w> got myself educated in high poer current limitong fuses
[01:54:32] <les_w> class t and semiconductor
[01:54:43] <LawrenceG> Its pretty awesum cranking up a stick welder and watching the neighbors lights flash
[01:54:51] <les_w> heh
[01:54:52] <jmkasunich> what are you doing that need those fuses?
[01:55:01] <LawrenceG> morse code practice
[01:55:21] <les_w> The vfd ap engineer reccomended them for the vfd
[01:55:33] <jmkasunich> ok, that makes sense
[01:55:49] <jmkasunich> for plain ole wiring they seemed very strange
[01:55:52] <les_w> less melted metal I guess
[01:56:06] <jmkasunich> faster clearing time, less let-thru
[01:56:35] <jmkasunich> still not fast enough to protect the drive
[01:57:05] <les_w> might make the difference between a glob of molten metal and just replacing an igfet I guess
[01:57:15] <jmkasunich> if they blow the drive is probably toast, but they might limit the explosion
[01:57:23] <les_w> hmmm
[01:57:24] <les_w> ok
[01:57:30] <jmkasunich> how big of a drive? (HP)
[01:57:35] <les_w> well you would know
[01:57:52] <les_w> little by yor standards...4 kW
[01:58:22] <les_w> 1000 hz
[01:58:24] <jmkasunich> modern drives under 10HP (heck, sometimes under 50HP) aren't meant to be repaired if it IGBT blows
[01:58:36] <les_w> really
[01:59:12] <les_w> so I could have just as well used class H fuses?
[01:59:23] <jmkasunich> the IGBT module (6 IGBTs, 6 freewheel diodes, and often the 6 input rectifier diodes in one block) is soldered to a PC board
[01:59:29] <les_w> I just did what the booksaid.
[01:59:38] <jmkasunich> nothing wrong with that
[02:00:35] <jmkasunich> like you said, they might mean the diff between molten metal/flames, and a simple "bang" and a dead drive
[02:00:46] <les_w> changed all the control wiring for the stg from ttl to 24v too
[02:00:56] <jmkasunich> with any luck at all, you won't have either (bang or flames)
[02:00:57] <les_w> Fire hazard is a big issue
[02:01:23] <les_w> with all the sawdust
[02:01:31] <jmkasunich> remember, I work on them in development, so I see all the bad ones - I don
[02:01:34] <jmkasunich> oops
[02:01:43] <jmkasunich> don't see the 99.5% that run just fine for years
[02:02:01] <jmkasunich> is the drive enclosed?
[02:02:05] <les_w> well, we have real bad power quality here
[02:02:20] <les_w> I put it in a nema enclosure for safety
[02:02:30] <jmkasunich> nema what?
[02:02:37] <les_w> cut vents for the fan air
[02:02:41] <jmkasunich> nema1 just means you can't get your mitts in
[02:02:47] <jmkasunich> nema 12 is drip-proof
[02:02:53] <jmkasunich> nema 4 is hoseproof
[02:03:11] <les_w> 5 I think...I followed the book for size and airflow
[02:03:21] <les_w> 5 is outside good I think
[02:03:30] <les_w> forgot
[02:03:35] <jmkasunich> before you cut the vents ;-)
[02:03:53] <les_w> anyway popping 'lytics won't blow out of it
[02:03:59] <jmkasunich> thats the idea
[02:04:14] <jmkasunich> assume the drive will blow up, and keep the fire inside
[02:04:21] <les_w> right
[02:04:25] <les_w> exactly
[02:04:26] <jmkasunich> (keep the flammable dust outside too)
[02:04:57] <les_w> got a new dust collector...but the fines blow throughthe filter a bit
[02:05:11] <jmkasunich> not good for the lings
[02:05:13] <jmkasunich> lungs
[02:05:19] <les_w> right
[02:05:26] <les_w> or the electronics bench
[02:05:41] <les_w> hence the new room
[02:06:18] <jmkasunich> in mild weather, might just want the dust collector bags outside under a lean-to or something
[02:06:26] <jmkasunich> let the fines drift away
[02:06:30] <les_w> sure
[02:06:53] <jmkasunich> dunno if the loss of warm/cool air during winter/summer would be a problem
[02:07:15] <les_w> I am trying to be careful here....4 kW in a half inch end mill can do some damage
[02:07:53] <jmkasunich> I take it you now have your high speed spindle?
[02:08:42] <les_w> yeah. A lot of money. Class 7 angular contact bearings. Big. 24,000 rpm.
[02:08:58] <les_w> 3 phase 240delta or 380 y.
[02:11:51] <les_w> amazingly, no load noise is 74 dba at one meter at 24,000
[02:12:09] <les_w> more when cutting of course
[02:13:42] <les_w> I expect with care to get 5,000 hrs out of the bearings...I hope so. replacements are $800.
[02:14:24] <les_w> Manufacturer said always do a 9000 rpm warmup for 10 minutes before cutting
[02:15:06] <les_w> forced air cooled.
[02:15:54] <jmkasunich> google is going down the tubes
[02:16:00] <les_w> ?
[02:16:33] <jmkasunich> search for an IC part number or an instrument, and you don't get datasheets or info about the item
[02:16:40] <jmkasunich> you get 100 dealers selling them
[02:18:44] <les_w> I just get serches of serch engines
[02:18:50] <les_w> searches
[02:19:16] <les_w> it is getting a bit cluttered with crap
[02:20:28] <jmkasunich> looking for a manual for an HP 1653B logic analyzer
[02:21:00] <jmkasunich> a coworker said he found a pdf
[02:21:28] <jmkasunich> its old
[02:21:39] <les_w> I'm coming back from chicago with all of corporate advanced technology's tek scopes
[02:21:40] <jmkasunich> out of production June 1994
[02:21:46] <les_w> they are replacing them
[02:21:53] <jmkasunich> what era are they?
[02:22:06] <jmkasunich> some of the newer ones suck
[02:22:10] <les_w> oh about early 90's I guess
[02:22:14] <les_w> digital
[02:22:19] <les_w> prob 8 bit
[02:22:27] <jmkasunich> no idea what models?
[02:22:48] <les_w> They told me onthe phone, but I forgot
[02:23:11] <jmkasunich> things like TDSsomenumber, or just numbers, like 2440?
[02:23:21] <les_w> They don't do math like fft and stuff
[02:23:32] <jmkasunich> we have a lot of TDS scopes at work, they're nice at times, but can be annoying
[02:23:45] <les_w> first or second generation digital tek I guess
[02:23:46] <jmkasunich> response to control inputs is slow
[02:23:56] <jmkasunich> that could be a good thing
[02:24:02] <jmkasunich> I have a 2440, early tek digital
[02:24:04] <jmkasunich> I like it
[02:24:31] <jmkasunich> some of the TDS ones, you turn the time/div knob 4 clicks, and it takes several seconds to get its wits about it
[02:24:37] <les_w> want to here a laugh? I am having to do impedance runs on an old 2 channel analog tek
[02:24:44] <les_w> voltage and current
[02:24:59] <jmkasunich> you need an impedance analyzer
[02:25:06] <les_w> I need something better.
[02:25:32] <jmkasunich> last year we had an auction of unused/rarely used test equipment
[02:25:45] <jmkasunich> the HP impedance analyzer went for about $20
[02:25:53] <les_w> I need to see a graph in real time of real and imaginary
[02:27:23] <les_w> I have to think ahead of a rt computer based system that will move poles in real time to tune resonators
[02:28:06] <jmkasunich> what frequency range? Khz, Mhz, Ghz?
[02:28:17] <les_w> I have to move two poles and two zeros to a specific place
[02:28:25] <les_w> lf...50-100kHz
[02:28:33] <jmkasunich> that helps
[02:28:45] <les_w> yeah
[02:29:03] <les_w> data aq card and some software that runs a laser
[02:29:20] <jmkasunich> hmm, looks like this logic analyzer is also a scope
[02:29:27] <les_w> heh
[02:29:30] <les_w> handy
[02:29:41] <jmkasunich> price was right too
[02:30:18] <les_w> I'm getting more into the thing where labor is everything and tools are cheap I guess
[02:30:51] <jmkasunich> well, at work that is true
[02:31:01] <jmkasunich> at home tho, you are still working, and I'm playing
[02:31:06] <les_w> right
[02:31:18] <jmkasunich> when playing, cash outlays are bad, time isn't so bad if you are enjoying it
[02:31:20] <les_w> But I turned all my hobbies into work
[02:31:33] <jmkasunich> type A
[02:31:37] <les_w> yup
[02:32:29] <les_w> that's why I took up golf...no hobbies..except maybe flying airplanes
[02:32:42] <les_w> and that's often to a business meeting
[02:33:53] <les_w> Anyway, private pilots fly in the same airspace and are held to the same standards as the bus drivers
[02:34:06] <les_w> not much of a hobby
[02:34:26] <les_w> you are just a robot listening to ATC instructions
[02:35:27] <jmkasunich> wow, agilent is actively trying to make manuals for obsolete stuff available
[02:35:55] <les_w> I am teaching a wood finishing class to a hobby club soon...I hope that will be fun.
[02:36:22] <les_w> I need some agilent stuff.
[02:36:50] <jmkasunich> what kind?
[02:37:10] <les_w> don't they make impedance analyzers?
[02:37:15] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:37:40] <les_w> well I'm writing phase angles on a legal pad now...
[02:38:12] <jmkasunich> we had a very nice HP (agilent) impedance analyzer, went for pennies about a year ago
[02:38:19] <les_w> really
[02:39:02] <jmkasunich> it wasn't bleeding edge, but would easily do 100KHz
[02:39:17] <les_w> fine for my stuff
[02:40:37] <jmkasunich> have you checked ebay?
[02:40:46] <les_w> heck, I spent the day making tiny foil hydroformed diapragms, mashing them with tweezers, and watching phase angles
[02:41:08] <les_w> looked at ebay a little
[02:44:16] <les_w> piezo resonators canbe pretty complicated..very non linear. Lots of empirical stuff because it would take 10,000 of nastran fem runs to figure it out
[02:44:40] <les_w> cheper to just use tweezers and see what hapens
[02:44:53] <les_w> cheaper
[02:45:46] <les_w> I can converge pretty fast with a little physics and a lot of tweaking
[02:46:36] <les_w> it's kind of like tuning a cavity magnetron in your bedroom...
[02:47:43] <les_w> scrape a littlre metal off...watch the poles move.
[02:48:35] <les_w> anyway I can bill for even using ancient equipment.
[02:49:22] <les_w> But if I had more modern stuff I could get done quicker, bill anyway, and goof off!
[03:17:08] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[03:17:08] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-25#T03-17-08
[04:29:29] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk-sleep
[04:57:28] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmm
[06:31:50] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[10:29:01] <giacus> hello
[11:27:46] <alex_joni> hello
[11:45:59] <giacus> wow
[11:46:03] <giacus> http://vanessexpressions.com/images/table_background_default.gif
[12:02:48] <cncuser> hello folks
[12:05:24] <alex_joni> hello
[12:05:48] <cncuser> hi alex_joni :)
[12:05:51] <alex_joni> howdy cncuser
[12:05:55] <alex_joni> what's cookin'?
[12:06:14] <cncuser> well, started playing around with coolcnc a hour ago
[12:06:37] <cncuser> right now am checking out emc2 testing and the "stable" tree
[12:06:46] <alex_joni> the testing
[12:06:51] <alex_joni> there is no stable yet ;)
[12:06:55] <cncuser> i know
[12:06:59] <cncuser> thats why ""
[12:07:02] <cncuser> ;)
[12:07:05] <alex_joni> but it should be stable enough
[12:07:13] <cncuser> my howto says :)
[12:07:28] <alex_joni> says what?
[12:07:35] <cncuser> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc login
[12:07:35] <cncuser> # !! "stable" !!
[12:07:35] <cncuser> # cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc co emc2
[12:07:35] <cncuser> # !! testing !!
[12:07:35] <cncuser> cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc co -r TESTING -d emc2testing emc2
[12:07:45] <cncuser> ;)
[12:08:02] <cncuser> need to update, the online version is not correct anymore
[12:09:00] <alex_joni> err.. not really
[12:09:08] <cncuser> hmmm
[12:09:11] <alex_joni> the HEAD can be broken once in a while
[12:09:24] <alex_joni> new development is there
[12:09:28] <cncuser> is it ok now ?
[12:09:32] <alex_joni> -r TESTING is what users should use
[12:09:40] <alex_joni> right now yes, but it might not be tonight
[12:09:48] <cncuser> ok
[12:10:00] <cncuser> ok, so its right the other way ?
[12:10:02] <alex_joni> and because CVS is laggin behind, there's no way of telling what right now means
[12:10:09] <alex_joni> you SHOULD use TESTING
[12:10:15] <cncuser> ok
[12:10:21] <cncuser> i remove the other
[12:10:25] <alex_joni> unless there is a STABLE (also a CVS tag, but that's not there yet)
[12:10:43] <cncuser> but on the emc wiki and webpages there allways is written " cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc login"
[12:10:51] <cncuser> afaik
[12:12:12] <alex_joni> yes, that needs to change
[12:12:41] <alex_joni> but I would like to replace the wiki engine, and I'm not very sure if the data can be kept
[12:13:07] <cncuser> what wiki do you want to use ?
[12:13:31] <alex_joni> nfc ;)
[12:13:35] <alex_joni> I thought about mediawiki
[12:13:41] <cncuser> hmm
[12:13:44] <cncuser> cool
[12:13:52] <cncuser> Linking ../rtlib/hal_stg.o
[12:13:52] <cncuser> Linking ../rtlib/hal_vti.o
[12:13:52] <cncuser> ld: no input files
[12:13:52] <cncuser> make: *** [../rtlib/hal_vti.o] Error 1
[12:13:53] <cncuser> damit
[12:14:03] <cncuser> the testing doesnt compile on my system
[12:14:07] <cncuser> the other does
[12:14:10] <alex_joni> that's 2.4 ?
[12:14:27] <cncuser> what 2.4 ?
[12:14:59] <alex_joni> kernel
[12:15:05] <cncuser> yes, 2.4.32
[12:15:14] <alex_joni> ok, was wondering about the build system
[12:15:26] <alex_joni> can you look at your emc2/src/Makefile ?
[12:15:31] <cncuser> shure
[12:15:39] <alex_joni> check for this line near the end:
[12:15:40] <alex_joni> ../rtlib/hal_vti.o: $(addprefix objects/rt,$(hal_vti-objs))
[12:15:57] <alex_joni> right after ../rtlib/hal_stg.o: ...
[12:16:36] <cncuser> obj-$(CONFIG_HAL_VTI) += hal_vti.o
[12:16:36] <cncuser> hal_vti-objs := hal/drivers/hal_vti.o
[12:16:43] <cncuser> no more hal_vti.o
[12:16:57] <alex_joni> ok, find the ../rtlib/hal_stg.o:
[12:17:07] <alex_joni> and duplicate it to read hal_vti.o
[12:17:19] <cncuser> ../rtlib/hal_stg.o: $(addprefix objects/rt,$(hal_stg-objs))
[12:17:21] <cncuser> ok
[12:17:40] <alex_joni> seems TESTING is missing that, HEAD has it (it was added a bit later)
[12:18:37] <cncuser> ok, i will not put this in th howto as it will be corrected ?
[12:18:48] <alex_joni> it already is..
[12:18:51] <cncuser> ok
[12:18:55] <alex_joni> just TESTING doesn't have it..
[12:19:05] <alex_joni> but I thought 2.4.27 and newer use kbuild
[12:19:47] <alex_joni> I'll fix TESTING in a minute
[12:20:15] <cncuser> hmm, ok, and its ment to be make installed
[12:20:31] <cncuser> scripts/emc: line 130: /usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: No such file or directory
[12:21:11] <cncuser> hmmm
[12:21:52] <cncuser> ok, ln -s /usr/src/emc2testing /usr/local/share/emc should do
[12:22:36] <cncuser> Error in startup script: invalid command name ".main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll"
[12:22:36] <cncuser> while executing
[12:22:36] <cncuser> "$res.vscroll configure -relief flat"
[12:22:36] <cncuser> (procedure "SW" line 3)
[12:22:50] <cncuser> hmm, ok got some issues :)
[12:22:55] <cncuser> i check again
[12:22:56] <alex_joni> ok, if it's meant to be installed you cannot run it locally
[12:23:08] <alex_joni> you need to install it in order for it to work
[12:23:18] <cncuser> the is no make install target
[12:23:24] <alex_joni> alternative is to use : ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[12:23:28] <alex_joni> and then it works locally
[12:23:33] <alex_joni> there should be
[12:24:10] <cncuser> a ok, wrong directory
[12:24:15] <alex_joni> ;)
[12:25:04] <cncuser> EMC2 - TESTING-2006-02-19
[12:25:04] <cncuser> Error in startup script: invalid command name ".main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll"
[12:25:04] <cncuser> while executing
[12:25:08] <cncuser> ok, still this issue
[12:25:09] <cncuser> hmm
[12:25:17] <alex_joni> what interface?
[12:25:26] <cncuser> none
[12:25:26] <alex_joni> or what config?
[12:25:30] <cncuser> i just run emc
[12:25:35] <cncuser> the chooser
[12:25:38] <alex_joni> ok, that might be in pickconfig
[12:25:53] <alex_joni> try emc /home/cncuser/emc2/configs/sim/sim.ini
[12:26:33] <cncuser> works
[12:26:42] <alex_joni> ok, so pickconfig is the problem
[12:26:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni checks out testing
[12:27:01] <cncuser> cool :
[12:27:04] <cncuser> :)
[12:28:04] <alex_joni> can you put emc in a pastebin?
[12:28:10] <alex_joni> the top 30 lines or so?
[12:28:12] <cncuser> whats that ?
[12:28:42] <alex_joni> scripts/emc
[12:28:56] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.com/
[12:30:58] <cncuser> http://pastebin.com/571744
[12:31:47] <cncuser> i could pack together a tarball of my cvs checkout if sf cvs isnt working for you right now
[12:33:00] <alex_joni> no, it is..
[12:33:16] <alex_joni> but I can't check in the change to Makefile, because TESTING isn't a branch
[12:33:25] <alex_joni> I would have to move the tag, and that's not trivial
[12:33:36] <alex_joni> well.. cvs foo is trivial
[12:33:42] <alex_joni> but it involves other things aswell
[12:34:05] <alex_joni> I'll try replicating it.. to see what's wrong
[12:34:46] <cncuser> ok
[12:35:30] <alex_joni> compiling now..
[12:36:15] <alex_joni> you didn't use any special places for the install directories (e.g. --with-sysconfdir=/etc/ )
[12:36:22] <cncuser> no
[12:36:31] <alex_joni> ok, but you could .. just that you know;)
[12:36:51] <cncuser> yes i could, maybe i will change it someday. for now i go with the defaults
[12:37:17] <alex_joni> it runs ok over here..
[12:37:21] <cncuser> hmmm
[12:37:28] <alex_joni> try emc -v -d
[12:37:33] <alex_joni> and paste the output to pastebin
[12:37:48] <alex_joni> I only did (./configure && make && sudo make install )
[12:38:36] <cncuser> http://pastebin.com/571753
[12:38:55] <cncuser> as im with puppy and uid:0 all the time i did the same without sudo
[12:39:34] <cncuser> ahhh
[12:39:36] <cncuser> home
[12:39:49] <cncuser> hmm
[12:40:26] <alex_joni> ok, I think I know
[12:40:30] <alex_joni> do you have bwidget ?
[12:40:35] <cncuser> hmmm
[12:40:37] <cncuser> dunno
[12:40:48] <alex_joni> try running /usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl
[12:40:52] <cncuser> it works with emc2 1 month old cvs checkout
[12:40:53] <alex_joni> that will test for it
[12:41:04] <cncuser> works
[12:41:09] <alex_joni> works?
[12:41:26] <cncuser> yes,
[12:41:33] <cncuser> i click around :)
[12:41:47] <alex_joni> bugger.. my knowledge of tcl is not good enough :(
[12:41:53] <cncuser> the thing is
[12:41:57] <cncuser> .main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll
[12:42:01] <alex_joni> try commenting out line 188 in /usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl
[12:42:03] <cncuser> i cant grep for in the emc source
[12:42:05] <cncuser> its not there
[12:42:11] <cncuser> it must come from somewhere else
[12:42:59] <alex_joni> no, it's in tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl
[12:43:09] <alex_joni> but not as .main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll
[12:43:17] <cncuser> no, with variables ;)
[12:43:17] <alex_joni> set s1 [ SW $f2.f3 -scrollbar vertical]
[12:43:22] <cncuser> i see
[12:43:24] <cncuser> :)
[12:43:40] <alex_joni> but commenting out the whole line doesn't work, s1 gets used afterthat
[12:43:47] <alex_joni> try removing the -scrollbar vertical
[12:44:47] <cncuser> Error in startup script: invalid command name ".main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll"
[12:44:48] <cncuser> hmmm
[12:44:53] <cncuser> dont get it
[12:44:58] <cncuser> whats that
[12:45:09] <cncuser> has no effect
[12:45:17] <cncuser> am i editing the wrong version
[12:45:35] <alex_joni> strange.. did you edit /usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl ?
[12:45:47] <cncuser> yes
[12:45:50] <alex_joni> or the one in emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl ?
[12:46:09] <cncuser> "/usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl" line 188 of 293 --64%--
[12:46:22] <alex_joni> let me see what it says
[12:46:24] <cncuser> #set s1 [ SW $f2.f3 -scrollbar vertical]
[12:46:25] <cncuser> set s1 [ SW $f2.f3]
[12:46:41] <alex_joni> try a space before the last ]
[12:46:51] <alex_joni> set s1 [ SW $f2.f3 ]
[12:47:50] <alex_joni> I'm really sorry, I have no clue how to fix this tcl code :(
[12:48:10] <cncuser> ++ /usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl '~/emc2/configs:/usr/local/etc/emc2/configs:/usr/local/etc/emc2/sample-configs'
[12:48:11] <cncuser> Error in startup script: invalid command name ".main.f1.f2.f3.vscroll"
[12:48:11] <cncuser> while executing
[12:48:11] <cncuser> "$res.vscroll configure -relief flat"
[12:48:11] <cncuser> (procedure "SW" line 3)
[12:48:12] <cncuser> invoked from within
[12:48:14] <cncuser> "SW $f2.f3 "
[12:48:16] <cncuser> invoked from within
[12:48:18] <cncuser> "set s1 [ SW $f2.f3 ]"
[12:48:20] <cncuser> (file "/usr/local/share/emc/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl" line 189)
[12:48:22] <cncuser> + INIFILE=
[12:48:26] <cncuser> nevermind : thanks for the help
[12:49:00] <alex_joni> what version of bwidget do you have?
[12:50:55] <alex_joni> not that I know how you would check that.. but I suspect it might be important
[12:51:17] <cncuser> hmm
[12:51:21] <alex_joni> I have /usr/share/bwidget1.7.0
[12:51:28] <cncuser> whats the bwidgte thingy again ?
[12:51:46] <cncuser> hmm
[12:51:46] <alex_joni> the stuff that makes trees in tcl
[12:51:49] <cncuser> mus search it
[12:52:05] <alex_joni> and /usr/lib/bwidget1.7.9
[12:52:12] <alex_joni> and /usr/lib/bwidget1.7.0
[12:52:14] <alex_joni> sorry ;)
[12:52:17] <cncuser> i just have the axis bwidget
[12:52:31] <cncuser> no
[12:52:32] <alex_joni> did you place that in /usr/lib ?
[12:52:34] <cncuser> ok
[12:52:44] <cncuser> there is /usr/lib/bwidget
[12:53:04] <cncuser> hmm, i see no version
[12:53:18] <cncuser> is bwidget a part of tcl or tk ?
[12:53:32] <alex_joni> I have nfc ;)
[12:53:57] <cncuser> whats nfc
[12:53:57] <alex_joni> check /usr/lib/bwidget/tree.tcl
[12:54:02] <alex_joni> no fucking clue
[12:54:04] <alex_joni> :)
[12:54:20] <cncuser> # tree.tcl
[12:54:20] <cncuser> # This file is part of Unifix BWidget Toolkit
[12:54:20] <cncuser> # $Id: tree.tcl,v 1.32 2001/06/22 01:56:50 ericm Exp $
[12:54:26] <alex_joni> I have 1.48
[12:54:30] <alex_joni> from 2003
[12:54:37] <alex_joni> 2001 seems a bit 'old'
[12:54:40] <cncuser> hmm, ok
[12:54:46] <cncuser> ill get a new one
[12:54:58] <alex_joni> check the one in AXIS
[12:55:25] <alex_joni> AXIS package contains (contained?) a bwidget dir
[12:55:34] <cncuser> i think its working if i install axis, but i want it correct from bottom. so i do a replacement bwidget
[12:55:48] <alex_joni> axis/thirdparty/bwidget
[12:55:54] <cncuser> yes i know
[12:56:04] <alex_joni> no, that one doesn't get installed, it's only distributed with it I think
[12:56:50] <cncuser> .. /usr/local/share/axis/tcl/bwidget/images/passwd.gif
[12:56:55] <cncuser> it does get installed
[12:57:42] <alex_joni> oh, ok :)
[14:14:56] <les_w> morning /afternoon
[14:15:04] <alex_joni> hello
[14:15:10] <cncuser> hi les
[14:16:43] <les_w> rainy day. after chores are done I guess I'll prepare materials for that wood finishing class.
[14:16:56] <les_w> I'll use walnut cnc sign blanks
[14:17:20] <les_w> after students are done i'll just run em through the sander again
[14:35:35] <jepler> axis installs its own copy of bwidget unless you set the environment variable USE_SYSTEM_BWIDGET
[14:36:05] <alex_joni> jepler: seems pickconfig barfs on older bwidgets
[14:36:12] <alex_joni> I have nfc why..
[14:36:17] <jepler> on debian systems, we make the emc2-axis package depend on the bwidget package of the proper version, so that's why the option is there
[14:36:36] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.com/571753
[14:36:40] <cradek> maybe old bwidgets don't have ScrolledWindow?
[14:36:46] <alex_joni> I think so..
[14:36:57] <jepler> alex_joni: then it should be changed to say 'package require BWidget 1.7' instead of just 'package require BWidget'
[14:37:09] <alex_joni> this wasn't for a deb system
[14:37:11] <jepler> then at least you get an error that indicates it's a version mismatch
[14:37:20] <alex_joni> can you do that in tcl?
[14:37:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is tcl-clueless
[14:37:49] <jepler> % package require BWidget
[14:37:49] <jepler> 1.7
[14:37:49] <jepler> % package require BWidget 1.8
[14:37:49] <jepler> version conflict for package "BWidget": have 1.7, need 1.8
[14:38:32] <jepler> bbl
[14:39:28] <alex_joni> coo
[14:41:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: we require bwidget 1.7 for ScrolledWindow
[14:41:21] <alex_joni> argh.. hate you
[14:41:30] <alex_joni> was just about to commit
[14:41:33] <alex_joni> cradek: :-P
[14:41:35] <cradek> too slow!
[14:41:41] <cradek> (sorry)
[14:41:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to his sushi ;)
[14:50:30] <jepler> mmm sushi
[14:57:54] <rayh> yum, yum
[15:01:23] <jepler> I'll have a bowl of cereal instead
[15:05:54] <rayh> Sausage or bratwurst works for me.
[15:06:17] <rayh> definite carnivore here.
[15:06:41] <rayh> BTW did you get a formula figured out for base_period
[15:18:17] <alex_joni> base_period=5+min_base_period (where min_base_period = base_period where PC locks up)
[15:21:06] <rayh> That's it.
[15:21:28] <rayh> So to test we start a realtime process then speed it up until it locks the computer?
[15:26:39] <jepler> why should base_period be the lowest you can achieve on the hardware? Surely there is a point of diminishing returns, and if you use a higher base period you have more performance left over for userspace
[15:28:48] <jepler> that's why I was looking at calculating base_period from maximum step rate
[15:31:30] <rayh> Ah. Right. In the old days, with the binning routine (steppermod)
[15:31:59] <rayh> The fastest you could go was period/2
[15:32:17] <rayh> The next fastest was half that speed.
[15:32:42] <rayh> next 1/4
[15:33:13] <rayh> This made big changes in speed near the rapid.
[15:33:43] <rayh> So what we tended to do was make period as small as possible
[15:34:04] <rayh> and run rapid at only a small percent of possible.
[15:34:29] <rayh> * rayh is not being very clear with this explanation.
[15:34:54] <rayh> It's snowing again 20 inches and counting.
[15:37:43] <skunkworks> ray - was the issue yestery day with feed overide?
[15:39:55] <rayh> Feed override did make the blending problems obvious.
[15:41:09] <rayh> I was running a 300% feed override (scale) and could get really interesting overshoot.
[16:21:02] <cradek> rayh: I want to move TESTING today so alex and I can work on TP in HEAD. Are there changes you want to get into this week's TESTING?
[16:44:38] <rayh> Lots I need to do but nothing ready.
[16:45:14] <rayh> I've got a follow up image for the overshoot problem. It's not overshoot it's undershoot.
[16:46:07] <rayh> I'll put this image, the ini I ran, and the gcode in the dropbox in a few.
[16:47:39] <cradek> rayh: is this with feed override active again?
[17:02:39] <rayh> It is an always thing. It just behaves a bit different with different feedrates.
[17:06:15] <rayh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/Dropbox/tp-test.tgz
[17:07:30] <rayh> This is fascinating stuff. I wrote on the screenshot so we can compare thoughts.
[17:13:46] <cradek> rayh: I have almost finished the changes alex and I discussed yesterday - let's try your same program when that's done
[17:14:33] <cradek> rayh: well actually I should probably move TESTING first, argh
[17:14:50] <rayh> IMO, the first blending move is in the wrong direction. It's simply an issue of the sign of it.
[17:15:33] <rayh> Right. Whenever you are ready I can up and build a new.
[17:15:48] <rayh> What I was running to create the image was a couple hours old.
[17:20:53] <cradek> rayh: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/overshoot-fix1.png
[17:21:19] <cradek> rayh: I think this is the expected result after the bugfix, but I'm not sure it's so great
[17:21:50] <cradek> notice I changed the backmost loop to come to a point - I blocked blending at that kind of turn to avoid the double-accel problem
[17:22:49] <rayh> It's blending all right.
[17:23:11] <cradek> yeah. for better or worse.
[17:23:31] <rayh> Is the location of the switch from green to red at 3"
[17:24:02] <cradek> doubt it. the motion_type switch isn't at the midpoint of the blend
[17:24:07] <rayh> That was the thing that had me fooled. I added a rapid line at that point so I could see where it really did it's thing.
[17:24:09] <cradek> (look at the backmost corner
[17:24:13] <cradek> )
[17:24:43] <cradek> I mean look at the one where it turns 90 degrees to go up
[17:25:12] <rayh> Can you re-run using the gcode in my tarball. That would tell you where.
[17:25:51] <rayh> I think what you've got there is pretty darn good. Should make nice surface finishes at normal cutting speeds.
[17:26:22] <cradek> you must have turned the feed way down for this program
[17:26:26] <cradek> I'm seeing excellent path following
[17:27:27] <rayh> It's settable using the #1000=1 line. Make it what you wish.
[17:28:00] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/overshoot-fix2.png
[17:28:04] <cradek> this is your program as-sent
[17:29:59] <rayh> As you can see the intersecting line just before each switch from g0 to g1 shows that you have done something very different from what was done in the older blender.
[17:30:22] <cradek> yeah there's no reversal or any other evilness
[17:30:33] <rayh> I'm anxious to watch it work here.
[17:30:57] <cradek> I hate to check it in before moving TESTING, but I have to run for a bit
[17:31:05] <cradek> when I get back, I'll move TESTING and then check it in for you to play with.
[17:31:22] <cradek> oops, I have to do the arc-arc case first, I've only done the arc-line and line-line
[17:31:24] <rayh> How bout just an email with the changed file.
[17:31:54] <rayh> I can wait, if I have to...
[17:32:05] <rayh> catch you later.
[17:32:24] <cradek> sorry, it's at least 3 files, let's just wait a bit
[17:32:32] <rayh> np
[17:32:38] <cradek> I'd also like to finish the arcs first (another dozen lines of code or so)
[17:32:55] <cradek> ok, be back in a while
[17:33:01] <rayh> Sure. I'd like to see it become a part of the new testing.
[17:33:17] <cradek> oh really? heck I could check it in now then
[17:33:32] <cradek> I was assuming it was too experimental for that
[17:33:45] <rayh> We can always revert.
[17:33:45] <cradek> I'll check it in if you do damage control for me :-)
[17:33:50] <cradek> sure.
[17:33:52] <cradek> ok here goes.
[17:34:04] <rayh> * rayh goes into damage control mode.
[17:35:48] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.c tc.h tp.c): experimental tp fix for ray, incomplete
[17:36:27] <rayh> Now that's finger pointing...
[17:36:42] <cradek> there's an unfixed case - think of two arcs coming together at a point, kind of like the number 3, that will still violate accel constraints
[17:37:07] <cradek> you should be able to turn your STEPGEN_MAXACCEL back down now (you had it twice MAXACCEL)
[17:37:13] <cradek> bbl
[17:37:21] <rayh> np. the gcode code tests both.
[17:37:27] <rayh> right. see you.
[17:37:31] <rayh> thanks
[18:12:57] <Jymmm> giacus ?
[18:13:09] <Jymmm> giacus whats the url to your gallery?
[18:16:34] <cncuser> hmmm
[18:16:59] <les_w> rearanging the office
[18:17:15] <les_w> I see why I was running out of bookshelf space
[18:17:34] <les_w> too many old digikey and mouser catalogs!
[18:17:43] <Jymmm> les_w firewood
[18:17:52] <les_w> claycoat
[18:18:09] <les_w> which is too bad
[18:18:41] <les_w> let me double check though
[18:19:58] <les_w> yeah.
[18:23:53] <les_w> ok electronics shelf
[18:24:03] <les_w> then chemistry
[18:24:15] <les_w> then mechanical engineering
[18:24:21] <les_w> then computer
[18:24:26] <les_w> then mathematics
[18:24:42] <Jymmm> then torch
[18:25:00] <les_w> haha
[18:28:04] <les_w> machiavelli's the prince and prophecies of nostrodamus...where the heck to those go?
[18:28:27] <Jymmm> Reality
[18:31:50] <skunkworks> looks like things are coming along with tp - cool. got side tracked - sorry
[18:32:47] <skunkworks> had to run and get a key chain drive for $29 1G
[18:32:53] <rayh> Wah! The latest TP stuff is a world of difference.
[18:33:03] <skunkworks> good
[18:33:05] <les_w> I read back but can't really see tangential anomalies in a backplot
[18:33:45] <rayh> There were a bunch of em that really varied widely with feedrate.
[18:34:04] <les_w> So we havw pauls #ifdef out, No misblend, no overshoot onreversal?
[18:34:25] <rayh> The circle in my test program showed at some speeds and overrides it would bounce 0.1 between.
[18:34:53] <rayh> Sure wish you had a emc2 setup on your machine les_w .
[18:35:15] <les_w> I'll need to change out the computer
[18:35:16] <rayh> I'd like to see you report on what you hear.
[18:35:55] <rayh> This last stuff from alex and chris made a huge difference.
[18:36:25] <les_w> is this the modified old code or simple_tp?
[18:36:33] <rayh> btw I tried to capture some of the arc-arc bounce but just couldn't get it.
[18:36:54] <rayh> I don't have any idea.
[18:37:25] <les_w> graphing position log is where you can see it better
[18:37:36] <les_w> recall all those graphs last year
[18:37:54] <rayh> looks like old, at least at the top.
[18:38:19] <rayh> Sure and halscope would handle that nicely.
[18:38:23] <les_w> arc-arc and line-line were virtually exact stop at most speeds.
[18:38:35] <les_w> but paths were followed
[18:38:55] <rayh> Right
[18:39:25] <rayh> My testing was a rapid of 180 ipm.
[18:39:46] <rayh> The blending looks pretty clean.
[18:40:17] <rayh> More blending than I expected or have seen before.
[18:40:27] <rayh> Don't know what they used for constraints.
[18:41:02] <les_w> Well, in general softer blends are calculated if slower accel is specified
[18:41:02] <rayh> spose I could test by changing accel.
[18:41:42] <rayh> yup. see if accel=0.5 and x1, y1, x0, y0 makes a circle.
[18:41:58] <les_w> .5 wow
[18:42:29] <rayh> kick it off today and see if its up to speed by nightfall.
[18:42:34] <les_w> let's see....
[18:43:31] <les_w> at 120 that's a 16 inch circle minimum circle size
[18:43:40] <les_w> V^2/a
[18:43:49] <les_w> (radius)
[18:44:06] <rayh> accel is a bit slow you think?
[18:44:11] <les_w> heh
[18:44:36] <alex_joni> les_w: it's the old tp, with paul's changes in it, but fixed a bit more
[18:44:39] <les_w> actually it's a good test
[18:44:54] <alex_joni> cradek and I figured out there were problems on blending reversals
[18:45:04] <les_w> if it can make circles smaller than 16 in diameter, something's wrong
[18:45:07] <alex_joni> so he put in code to prevent blending on reversals
[18:45:31] <les_w> ok understand alex
[18:45:49] <alex_joni> because blending that will surely prevent you reaching the commanded pos.
[18:45:58] <les_w> yes
[18:45:59] <rayh> It seems to work well in the tests here. Wish I had a bigger machine to try it with.
[18:46:33] <les_w> what do I need to run axis/emc2?
[18:46:34] <rayh> brb
[18:46:42] <les_w> as far as a box
[18:46:47] <alex_joni> les_w: a 300+
[18:46:51] <alex_joni> but 133 might work too
[18:47:13] <skunkworks> alex - to run 500+ipm?
[18:47:24] <alex_joni> skunkworks: les is running servo, so yes
[18:47:29] <skunkworks> cool
[18:48:00] <les_w> What I need to do is put a 1 gig+ box in there with the motenc
[18:48:02] <skunkworks> so it would be better for us to get servo drives and a card
[18:48:09] <les_w> the stg is not up to the task
[18:48:16] <skunkworks> for running higher speeds
[18:48:36] <les_w> skunk, for commercial stuff servo is a must.
[18:48:52] <skunkworks> right
[18:49:08] <skunkworks> we are not that commercial yet ;)
[18:49:14] <les_w> heh
[18:49:44] <les_w> for hobby the issue is usually cost I guess.
[18:50:01] <les_w> servo is just plain going to be a couple grand in tronics.
[18:50:16] <alex_joni> about 1k / axis
[18:50:21] <les_w> unless it's a tiny system
[18:50:52] <les_w> yeah ik/axis...I'll but that
[18:51:01] <les_w> buy
[18:51:11] <alex_joni> probably more for a serious machine..
[18:52:25] <skunkworks> we have some servos we would like to put on our big mill - peak 59v 82amps 80ft-lbs
[18:52:43] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:52:53] <skunkworks> I mean :)
[18:53:49] <skunkworks> that would replace the hydrolic servos and have almost the same torque
[18:54:38] <les_w> old moog hydra point?
[18:56:23] <les_w> ach "ACCOUNTING PRINCIPLES"
[18:56:35] <les_w> that goes on the boring shelf.
[18:58:00] <les_w> "business Web Page Design"...copyright 1995
[18:58:04] <les_w> wood stove.
[18:59:01] <skunkworks> moog hydra point?
[18:59:08] <les_w> Oh too cool...bound copy of year 1943 "product engineering" magazine
[18:59:15] <les_w> that's a keeper
[18:59:45] <les_w> neat machine tool ads
[19:00:45] <Jymmm> scan it and toss it
[19:01:03] <les_w> article for forming plexiglas for the b-17 flying fortress
[19:01:53] <skunkworks> father has a bunch of bound "machinery" mags from the 1900's
[19:01:56] <skunkworks> very cool
[19:02:26] <cradek> I'm back
[19:02:55] <alex_joni> hi chris
[19:02:58] <cradek> hi
[19:03:04] <alex_joni> seems ray has nice results on the latest TP
[19:03:08] <cradek> good
[19:03:18] <cradek> my change is not done yet
[19:03:26] <skunkworks> good work :)
[19:03:47] <cradek> can one of you plot accel on reversals and make sure I got it right?
[19:04:04] <alex_joni> cradek: if you can wait ~1 hour
[19:04:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is a bit busy right now
[19:04:27] <alex_joni> I'll be back later
[19:04:30] <skunkworks> I am probably not going to be near the machine all weekend.
[19:04:33] <skunkworks> :(
[19:04:38] <cradek> ok
[19:04:54] <skunkworks> ray sounds like he is testing all day
[19:05:01] <cradek> I'll dig into arcs and maybe I'll get it right on the first try...
[19:05:16] <rayh> cradek: I got good plots here.
[19:05:32] <cradek> rayh: did you test arc-arc like the number 3?
[19:05:43] <rayh> It looked like what you did somehow affected arcs as well.
[19:06:03] <rayh> I might have seen some near stops there but no reversals or bouncing.
[19:06:06] <cradek> only arc->line with reversal
[19:06:20] <cradek> umm
[19:06:32] <cradek> crap this is hard without drawing a picture
[19:06:39] <Jymmm> Um... how long have you folks been fighting TP for?
[19:06:45] <Jymmm> years?
[19:06:58] <rayh> for ever?
[19:08:15] <rayh> cradek: You're looking for some blends that are not in the overshoot program?
[19:08:34] <cradek> yes
[19:08:52] <rayh> arc into a tangent line?
[19:09:05] <cradek> arc into a tangent line going the opposite direction
[19:09:23] <rayh> okay. let me see what I can cook up.
[19:09:24] <cradek> also line into a tangent arc going the opposite direction
[19:09:47] <cradek> do you see what I mean? sort of like the letter u
[19:10:21] <Jymmm> Silly me, but wouldn't it be a good it to breka it down, comment it like crazy, then have it reviewed by Fred for clarification ?
[19:10:24] <cradek> also two arcs that meet at a point but the direction reverses, like lowercase greek omega
[19:10:25] <rayh> feed or rapid or mixed.
[19:10:42] <cradek> rapid
[19:10:46] <cradek> max velocity
[19:10:47] <rayh> I've got the mental image.
[19:10:54] <rayh> okay.
[19:10:55] <cradek> ok
[19:11:15] <cradek> I'm looking for accel constraint violation like we had recently at the beginning of Chips when reversing on those rapids
[19:11:43] <cradek> those are the cases I'm fixing now
[19:13:07] <skunkworks> while you are thinking about this - is this where there are issues with backlash comp?
[19:13:14] <Jymmm> rayh ?
[19:13:26] <cradek> skunkworks: no, that's in another place
[19:13:29] <skunkworks> ok
[19:14:05] <cradek> skunkworks: I think backlash compensation should be an added segment before the TP but whenever I say that, people smarter than me howl, so I must not know what I'm talking about
[19:14:22] <rayh> looks like it decel/reverse/accel just like it should.
[19:14:46] <cradek> rayh: did you plot accel? I'm pretty sure some cases are wrong...?
[19:15:02] <rayh> no I didn't.
[19:15:12] <cradek> rayh: yesterday alex was seeing some accels of 20 when your max was 10
[19:15:25] <cradek> rayh: those are what I'm working on eliminating
[19:15:30] <rayh> My head is to stuffed up to get around making halscope do it right.
[19:15:31] <les_w> In my humble opinion, backlash compensation rarely works or does any good....in a cnc machine.
[19:16:10] <rayh> That is the same opinion I got from the head of US sales for mitts.
[19:16:25] <les_w> heh
[19:16:34] <cradek> les_w: I agree that's true, but not sure it's relevant unless we are willing to discuss just taking it out.
[19:17:26] <cradek> les_w: before I fixed backlash in my machine, I struggled with finding the "right" backlash setting to get my parts the right sizes. Of course there is no "right" setting.
[19:17:40] <les_w> next shelf....Feynman's "the pleasure of finding things out"....then "Kama Sutra."
[19:17:57] <les_w> well I have no problem with it...as long as it has an "off"
[19:18:12] <rayh> * rayh dislikes gnome!
[19:18:23] <skunkworks> sorry - should not side track you guys.
[19:18:40] <cradek> rayh: back to your testing, I think line->line, arc->line are fixed, but no other cases yet (arc->arc, line->arc)
[19:18:56] <cradek> rayh: it would be nice if you could test accel on each case so we know if I get them all right
[19:21:04] <robin_sz> meep?
[19:22:22] <cradek> hi robin_sz
[19:22:23] <skunkworks> working on the basement. bbl - good luck guys.
[19:27:57] <les_w> hi robin
[19:31:11] <rayh> Could I get a few hints on displaying accel with halscope?
[19:31:35] <robin_sz> evening ...
[19:31:45] <robin_sz> just been down to see my gunsmith :) ...
[19:32:23] <robin_sz> rifle meet mr hammer and mr brass-drift
[19:32:58] <robin_sz> tap the retaining pins out and then hammer seven shaded of crap out of the barrel until it leaves the receiver
[19:33:33] <rayh> Yuk. That seems like a mess.
[19:37:11] <robin_sz> well, it got the barrel out, which was the general idea
[19:38:32] <robin_sz> alex_joni: you about?
[19:38:56] <robin_sz> alex_joni: cloos "robomat" series? any good?
[19:47:54] <jmk-sleep> jmk-sleep is now known as jmkasunich
[21:42:43] <giacus> holaaaaaaaa
[21:42:48] <giacus> folks
[21:42:50] <giacus> :P
[21:43:12] <giacus> robin_sz: around ?
[22:09:35] <alex_joni> I am now
[22:09:42] <alex_joni> robin_sz: still there?
[22:09:45] <giacus> hey alex_joni
[22:09:55] <alex_joni> hello
[22:09:58] <giacus> raeady fo carneval
[22:11:51] <giacus> k4ts comes here for few days
[22:12:04] <giacus> we have to shot some nice photos
[22:12:34] <giacus> thinking about camera settings and bad weather we have..
[22:12:38] <giacus> rain
[22:13:24] <giacus> someone sayd to play round ISO settings
[22:13:44] <giacus> without use the flash
[22:36:52] <giacus> G nite
[22:39:26] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/ (tc.c tp.c): experimental tp changes for ray, part 2
[23:25:32] <bill20r3> good score today, found some THK rails at a local lost-freight warehouse...
[23:26:19] <Jymmm> bill20r3 how much?
[23:26:35] <rayh> Just mail those to "Dumb as a post" Crystal Falls MI 49920
[23:27:29] <bill20r3> Jymm, $2 each
[23:27:36] <bill20r3> they were in with the drawer-slides
[23:27:36] <Jymmm> bill20r3 killer deal!
[23:27:44] <bill20r3> yeah, big score.
[23:28:01] <bill20r3> now if I could find trucks for the same price...
[23:28:07] <bill20r3> this is just the rails.
[23:28:07] <Jymmm> lol
[23:31:58] <bill20r3> are the rail profiles a standard? (ie: can I use non-THK trucks on thk rails?)
[23:34:58] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[23:48:45] <alex_joni> anyone that knows a bit about networks?
[23:49:10] <cncuser> back from reality
[23:49:19] <cncuser> shure
[23:49:28] <alex_joni> cncuser: any idea what SYN_SENT means?
[23:49:30] <cncuser> alex_joni: what do you want to know ?
[23:49:38] <alex_joni> er.. not what it means, what causes it
[23:49:50] <cncuser> hmm, a syn is followed by an ack...
[23:49:53] <alex_joni> I have a connection to a webserver that gets halted in SYN_SENT
[23:50:07] <cncuser> you get nothing baack
[23:50:10] <alex_joni> yeah, I know the theory.. but I wonder how I can make it timout faster
[23:50:17] <alex_joni> timeout even
[23:50:28] <cncuser> on the clientside ?
[23:50:37] <alex_joni> not even sure ;)
[23:50:41] <cncuser> hahaha
[23:50:42] <cncuser> ;)
[23:51:07] <cncuser> launch ethereal and hang strace on the client
[23:51:09] <cncuser> :)
[23:51:13] <alex_joni> this happens once in a while.. when the connection is poor (I think the ACK is lost)
[23:51:31] <alex_joni> but then nothing will work for the next couple of minutes (10, 15 I think)
[23:51:38] <cncuser> hmm
[23:51:48] <alex_joni> except ICMP or other protocols
[23:51:51] <cncuser> what do you use for http get ?
[23:52:11] <alex_joni> I tried a telnet foo.srv 80 last time
[23:53:04] <alex_joni> but it shouldn't matter