#emc | Logs for 2006-02-23

[01:28:47] <skunkworks> http://emc.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Oword
[01:29:04] <skunkworks> should I somehow put my name on it? How does it look?
[01:29:48] <cradek> it looks great
[01:30:14] <cradek> regarding your name, I think you can do whatever you like
[01:30:20] <jepler> huh -- I thought the wiki showed images inline.
[01:31:24] <cradek> can subroutines return a value (or can you call by reference?)
[01:31:37] <jepler> I think you could call by reference
[01:31:45] <jepler> ##1=37
[01:32:33] <jepler> in fact when I wrote the ultra-painful version of the ellipse code (the one that used a loop-up table and linear interpolation instead of sin[] and cos[]) I think I used that
[01:32:44] <jepler> man it's just too bad I dont know offhand where that code is.
[01:33:06] <cradek> it's one of the great works lost to history I guess
[01:34:02] <skunkworks> ;)
[01:34:32] <jepler> skunkworks: if instead of [http://......jpg explanation] you just write http://.....jpg (no square brackets even) it seems to show the image in-line
[01:34:48] <jepler> and the ball looks pretty cool
[01:34:54] <jepler> bbl
[01:35:17] <skunkworks> I know - I didn't think people would want 2 pictures on the page - what do you think?
[01:37:38] <cradek> I also like the ball
[01:38:12] <cradek> looks like only a little bit of hand finishing wil be needed
[01:38:25] <skunkworks> Thanks - what do you think about the pictures inbedded in the page?
[01:38:42] <skunkworks> I think that was 1 degree resolution - could go finer
[01:39:18] <cradek> the images are pretty big... you would need to use thumbnails I think
[01:49:50] <dmessier> i like the wiki... cudos..
[01:50:47] <skunkworks> I need a longer ball end mill - want to make a bigger one ;)
[01:50:50] <skunkworks> thanks
[01:52:27] <dmessier> how long you need?? dia??
[01:53:11] <dmessier> i might hae stock..
[01:53:16] <dmessier> have
[01:54:50] <skunkworks> longer the better - 1/8 - 3/16 or 1/4 - 1/8 with a 1/2" of cutting flutes would be nice
[01:55:20] <dmessier> i have to like the way subs and logic is dealt with... ; )
[01:55:21] <skunkworks> or more even
[01:55:50] <skunkworks> I have not played with subs yet but loops work pretty easy
[01:56:01] <dmessier> emco.. standard 1/8" dia will get 7/16 loc
[01:56:27] <dmessier> you using solid carbide??
[01:56:39] <skunkworks> yes
[01:57:17] <dmessier> rpm availability??? material to be cut??
[01:57:44] <dmessier> WOOD>>??
[01:58:01] <skunkworks> mostly wood - router
[01:58:24] <dmessier> are you roughing it down at all or 1 cut to depth??
[01:58:58] <skunkworks> right now - one cut to depth :)
[01:59:22] <skunkworks> the main thing is the corners of the ball are pretty deep
[01:59:55] <dmessier> the ball... use a single lip d-bit. 15 to 1 depth to cut,,, but light passes req'd
[02:00:16] <dmessier> depth to dia
[02:00:49] <dmessier> it doesnt cut up its full length
[02:03:30] <dmessier> i see a nested loop holding plunge factor to aval. loc... omit values over "z" and machine the ones under it
[02:04:35] <skunkworks> ?
[02:06:18] <skunkworks> plan on doing a video of it cutting one side of this. for shits and giggles.
[02:06:56] <dmessier> from the programmed origins.. rough the same program... BUT IF its in AIR acording to calulations .. omit the iteration
[02:07:19] <dmessier> thats my line... ; )
[02:07:34] <skunkworks> ah
[02:07:37] <skunkworks> neet
[02:07:52] <dmessier> great minds think alike
[02:08:38] <dmessier> rapid to the first one BEFORE wood
[02:12:17] <dmessier> i have a friend at work who will love the wiki...he's a dreamer to
[02:16:29] <skunkworks> my first wiki edit ;)
[02:16:48] <skunkworks> all this power - I don't know if I can use it all for good
[02:17:55] <dmessier> be brave little soldier ; )
[02:22:27] <dmessier> you'll get used to the smell of napalm in the morning
[02:25:41] <skunkworks> ;)
[02:25:44] <cradek> skunkworks: writing documentation is one of the thankless parts of OSS - thank you
[02:26:11] <skunkworks> no problem. it was fun.
[02:27:42] <skunkworks> maybe tomorrow I will make some thumb nails to link to the larger pictures.
[02:28:02] <skunkworks> your axis looks damn nice on those picture.
[02:28:56] <cradek> skunkworks: how do you intend to cut the sixth side on your cube?
[02:30:08] <skunkworks> i was going to make female jaws for a vice. that would hold the ball and cube for the last 2 cuts
[02:30:25] <cradek> I see
[02:30:34] <skunkworks> so the inverse of the cube so it could be clamped.
[02:30:48] <skunkworks> does that make sense?
[02:31:34] <cradek> yes
[02:31:54] <skunkworks> have not made that program yet ;)
[02:31:58] <cradek> the hard parts of this are definitely repositioning and clamping the last cuts
[02:32:06] <skunkworks> right
[02:32:45] <skunkworks> 4 sides go easy - the 5th and 6th are a pain
[02:38:00] <dmessier> cast plaster to hold it into place
[02:38:48] <dmessier> i've made that cube with 1 prg on a lathe..
[02:39:00] <skunkworks> that would work too
[02:39:13] <skunkworks> explain?
[02:39:36] <skunkworks> chuck the cube 6 times?
[02:39:58] <dmessier> cast the plaster in as many places.... oh the cube.. yes,,,
[02:40:53] <dmessier> form tool .. selective tool path.... BONK the cube at the end and the ball fell loose
[02:41:22] <dmessier> larger than the hole diameter..
[02:42:55] <skunkworks> I had goofed around making the sphere by concentric circles progresivly bigger and deeper. But I thought it neater to make the sphere this way as the hole in the cube is square in the end instead of round.
[02:43:37] <skunkworks> plus the machine just looks cool making it - bobbing up and down.
[02:44:26] <skunkworks> it was mainly to play with the full 3 axis machine as this is the first time we have had one. (had a 2.5 axis machine until now)
[02:44:45] <dmessier> but the ball WILL fall out ....wont it??
[02:44:48] <skunkworks> z and x shared an axis
[02:44:50] <skunkworks> no
[02:45:08] <skunkworks> the ball is the same size as the box outside dimensions
[02:45:26] <skunkworks> that is the trick - a traped ball in cage
[02:46:03] <skunkworks> normally people carve these out with thier pocket knives - I don't have the patience for that ;)
[02:46:07] <dmessier> x-z shared axes drives shows the real programmers from the rest... i've worked and taught on many
[02:47:40] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCCurrent.JPG <- 2.5 axis - hopefully and emc2 converion in the future.
[02:49:36] <skunkworks> and classic ladder
[02:50:31] <dmessier> millwakee-matic??
[02:50:36] <skunkworks> yepper
[02:51:01] <dmessier> was paper tape developed machine you know...
[02:51:19] <skunkworks> made the tape emulator for it
[02:51:30] <skunkworks> ;)
[02:51:57] <dmessier> time to slip into the 90's before 2010 rolls ya over guys
[02:52:19] <skunkworks> until about month ago the descrete componant controller was still working ;)
[02:52:28] <dmessier> and you find yourselves 20 yrs behind
[02:52:34] <skunkworks> ;)
[02:53:10] <skunkworks> the thing was built in 68
[02:53:12] <dmessier> i have FULL confidence on good DCC
[02:53:37] <dmessier> i was born in 67... wre both vintage
[02:53:53] <skunkworks> not that older than me.
[02:54:09] <skunkworks> dcc?
[02:54:14] <skunkworks> don't know that one
[02:54:43] <skunkworks> this is a hobby - some people have boats.
[02:55:21] <dmessier> march 27 1967.... my mom had twins.... God/Earth knew only1 is enuf.... so he took 1 away...
[02:55:53] <dmessier> and now theres ME
[02:56:22] <skunkworks> wow - where you guys pre-mature? did she know she was having twins?
[02:57:42] <dmessier> 7 months.. told my dad the baby had died... but a few hours later the afterbirth had a heartbeat...
[03:00:37] <skunkworks> that must have turned things around.
[03:00:50] <dmessier> no one had a clue about the twin probability... my sis held that gene... but also the fragile "x" gene so she's decided against children
[03:01:58] <dmessier> im just a wierd /facked/unusual human being... since birth
[03:02:55] <dmessier> so when crap happens to me its the USUAL
[03:03:24] <skunkworks> :)
[03:04:06] <dmessier> i wear it well... brown you know
[03:06:17] <skunkworks> this is what made the cube - the emc2 test machine ;)
[03:06:31] <dmessier> if i asked u for a pre machined... heat treated.. finish mashined... IVD coated... SMALLER part... how long... machining time totaltool touch time 60 minutes.
[03:06:39] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSCgantry.JPG
[03:08:32] <dmessier> Non destructive testing time also.... im quoting 3 WEEKS...
[03:10:49] <dmessier> the part is 2.25 od 0.030" thk 1.75 id
[03:11:02] <dmessier> 62 RC
[03:11:31] <dmessier> 32 microinch all over
[03:12:11] <dmessier> mat'l bs135 - 1% carbon steel
[03:12:37] <skunkworks> not done anything that complicated. no experience heat treating either.
[03:13:41] <dmessier> not complicated.... its aviation
[03:14:31] <dmessier> h/t is another issue...but takaes a week
[03:15:20] <dmessier> as does the plating
[03:16:19] <skunkworks> crap - I have to get going. - I am usually around. love to see pictures of stuff you have worked on or machined.
[03:16:29] <dmessier> i was askes this morning for finished oarts by the 27 of feb.... and HE didnt pass the crack pipe either
[03:16:30] <skunkworks> or your machines
[03:16:42] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:17:45] <skunkworks> I know how that is - I write database applications for my work. the owner of the company thinks I should be able to knock out a app in a few days
[03:17:58] <dmessier> chk out wfl machinery.. mill-turn stuff f18 nose cylinder is on there now
[03:18:10] <skunkworks> easy he says
[03:18:47] <dmessier> take a week off.. see if he still thinks its easy
[03:19:12] <skunkworks> ;)
[03:19:24] <skunkworks> he is coming around slowly
[03:19:27] <dmessier> i am a mentor tomany.. and i dont even like it
[03:19:45] <dmessier> some ppl are DUMB
[03:20:07] <dmessier> to dumb for this biz
[03:21:47] <skunkworks> ok - talk to you later. (just hope the dumb ones get cought in the machines)
[03:22:27] <dmessier> heres to not them getting urt
[04:19:20] <fenn> dmessier is this your landing gear? http://www.wfl.at/redsyspix/download/aero_044.pdf
[10:34:06] <giacus> damn it, another engineer forgot the snow in moscow
[10:35:07] <alex_joni> huh
[10:35:22] <giacus> morning alex_joni
[10:54:42] <giacus> alex_joni: to update the doc I was writing, should I get latest halcmd man from CVS ?
[10:57:08] <giacus> can anyone tell me the url ?
[11:00:05] <giacus> Logging in to :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:2401/cvsroot/emc
[11:00:14] <giacus> CVS password:
[11:00:21] <giacus> waiting :/
[11:00:26] <fenn> cvs appears to be borked here as well
[11:00:38] <giacus> atfter entered enter
[11:00:59] <giacus> return to prompt $
[11:01:08] <giacus> nothing happen
[11:01:19] <fenn> how's this? http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/documents/lyx/Hal_Introduction.lyx?view=markup
[11:02:03] <giacus> I already have "Hal_introduction" I need the latest halcmd man to update it
[11:02:17] <giacus> anyway looking..
[11:03:59] <fenn> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/*checkout*/emc/emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1?rev=1.12
[11:05:34] <giacus> fenn: could be ok :)
[11:26:46] <giacus> whats the path for unloadrt ?
[11:26:59] <giacus> /sbin/ ?
[11:27:48] <giacus> ops
[11:27:51] <giacus> :)
[11:27:56] <giacus> mothing..
[11:28:30] <giacus> thats a command of halcmd
[11:29:13] <giacus> so, old emc2#�/sbin/insmod�rtlib/freqgen.o�cfg='0�0'�period=50000
[11:29:29] <fenn> er, what?
[11:29:49] <giacus> should be halcmd loadrt rtlib/freqgen.o�cfg='0�0'�period=50000
[11:29:50] <giacus> ?
[11:29:56] <fenn> yah i think
[11:30:03] <alex_joni> giacus: yes, except cfg=0,0
[11:30:34] <fenn> how to separate cfg and period?
[11:30:54] <alex_joni> I mean cfg now is an array, not string
[11:31:02] <alex_joni> so cfg=0,0 period=50000
[11:32:53] <giacus> k
[11:34:00] <giacus> I've to change lots pf thing in the doc
[11:34:12] <giacus> and try it too
[11:34:46] <alex_joni> man this i shilarious
[11:34:49] <alex_joni> http://tux.crystalxp.net/
[11:35:20] <giacus> haha
[11:35:55] <alex_joni> check them all out.. a few hundred
[11:36:12] <alex_joni> use 'page suivante'
[11:36:42] <giacus> the Elvis Prestux lol
[11:36:47] <giacus> :D
[11:37:07] <giacus> Taztux looney
[11:37:10] <giacus> haha
[11:37:17] <giacus> cool
[11:49:30] <giacus> I like this bootsplash http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29662
[11:50:36] <giacus> the box style on the left
[11:52:53] <giacus> and this http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=29681
[11:53:11] <giacus> thats HAL :D
[11:54:00] <fenn> megaHAL would kick HAL's ass any day
[11:54:13] <giacus> :)
[12:02:39] <giacus> http://digilander.libero.it/atavacron/images/19.html
[12:02:50] <giacus> first film on robots i've seen
[12:03:05] <fenn> yuck
[12:03:16] <giacus> I was 10 years old ..
[12:03:17] <fenn> what a terrible movie
[12:03:43] <giacus> do you remember it ? :P
[12:03:56] <alex_joni> lol statux libertux
[12:04:14] <giacus> it also was the first film I've seen in tv colours
[12:04:29] <giacus> before that was B/N
[12:04:35] <giacus> B/W
[12:04:59] <giacus> 1973
[12:05:09] <fenn> i just saw a movie today from 1973
[12:05:12] <fenn> "sex and fury"
[12:05:19] <giacus> :P
[12:05:20] <fenn> it's totally insane
[12:05:31] <giacus> hehe
[12:07:15] <fenn> there were multiple naked samurai sword fights
[12:08:04] <giacus> alex_joni: look at spiderman http://www.bastardidentro.it/node/view/13096 (hard)
[12:08:08] <giacus> :D
[12:10:26] <giacus> http://www.bastardidentro.it/node/view/14982
[12:13:27] <giacus> she changed boyfriend
[12:42:26] <giacus> http://cgi.ebay.it/2-St-neue-Maxon-Motore-10W-Nennsp-36V-DC_W0QQitemZ7383969720QQcategoryZ12215QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[12:42:35] <giacus> toys ?
[12:42:48] <giacus> 10W, ..
[12:42:52] <giacus> :(
[12:43:55] <giacus> http://cgi.ebay.it/Kl-CNC-Portalfraese-m-Servomotore-u-Encodern_W0QQitemZ7392476848QQcategoryZ23644QQssPageNameZWD2VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[12:44:07] <giacus> that looks nice, but germany only
[12:44:45] <giacus> serovs, not stepper
[12:46:30] <giacus> * giacus umpf
[12:46:49] <giacus> cnc
[12:46:51] <giacus> ops
[13:06:45] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[13:06:46] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-23#T13-06-45
[13:09:17] <alex_joni> morning samco
[13:09:31] <skunkworks> morning - how are you today?
[13:11:40] <alex_joni> pretty busy
[13:12:30] <skunkworks> good or bad? When I am busy the work day flies by.
[13:13:26] <alex_joni> good
[13:14:21] <skunkworks> am I just missing it? is there a link from the wiki.linuxcnc main page to the Oword page?
[13:14:58] <skunkworks> don't want to add it if you can get there some how.
[13:15:49] <skunkworks> I am now the wiki master buwwwa ha ha ha ha ha.
[13:18:30] <skunkworks> the name of the page should probably be changed to something a little more descriptive
[13:20:41] <skunkworks> o words - loops and subs. maybe something like that
[13:21:40] <skunkworks> o words - loops, conditional statements and subs
[13:29:56] <skunkworks> ok - added it now as owords - loops, conditionals and subs. if someone has an issue - they can change it.
[13:32:33] <skunkworks> wiki isn't bad at all. (first time editing a wiki)
[13:33:21] <skunkworks> as long as I can find examples of what I am trying to do - it is easy.
[13:44:56] <giacus> how many axis should have a plasma cutter , 2 or 3 ?
[13:46:16] <giacus> are 2 enough ?
[13:48:44] <jepler_> skunkworks: have you programmed in other languages? if so, why are you interested in using O-words, rather than writing a program in another language to generate straight-line gcode?
[13:48:46] <Jymmm> (Real Early) Mornin Folks!
[13:48:49] <jepler_> skunkworks:hi jymm
[13:48:52] <jepler_> er
[13:48:55] <jepler_> hi Jymmm
[13:49:01] <giacus> morning Jymmm
[13:49:01] <Jymmm> jepler_ =)
[13:49:16] <Jymmm> hi jacky
[13:49:20] <skunkworks> I have done it both ways.
[13:50:39] <skunkworks> don't really know why. Maybe I like short gcode files. :)
[13:50:48] <skunkworks> something to play with.
[13:51:22] <skunkworks> used to machines with only 128k of memory
[13:51:25] <skunkworks> or less
[13:51:50] <jepler_> you mean CNC machines that can only accept short files?
[13:51:51] <skunkworks> morning
[13:51:53] <jepler_> I've never used one of those
[13:51:54] <skunkworks> right
[13:52:24] <jepler_> I guess maybe the maxnc software I used a few times had a DOS-imposed limitation
[13:52:32] <skunkworks> it isn't a big deal now
[13:53:10] <skunkworks> but the functionality to be able to do loop and such it nice to have. (how much others will use it I don't know)
[13:54:08] <skunkworks> I had used basic a long time ago to generate gcode files. did the mcdonalds arches as 2 parabalas(sp)
[13:55:16] <skunkworks> has anyone used design cad? Don't know if they are still in business.
[13:55:50] <skunkworks> that had a basic interperater in it. created a post proccessor that you could click around the tool path to generate gcode.
[13:56:15] <skunkworks> wanted to do something similar in autocad lisp but never got around to it.
[13:58:01] <jepler_> cradek has some kind of g-code generator in autolisp
[13:58:21] <jepler_> http://timeguy.com/cradek/autocad
[13:58:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has a dumb math question... If I have a 4x6" photo (that has a 1.5 ratio multiplier) and I wanted to create a frame for it out of 5.5" height lumber and need to figure out the length needed. shouldn't I be able to just multiply the 5.5" by 1.5" to get a length that's evenly proportional?
[14:00:27] <Jymmm> 4x6 needs a 5.5x8.25 frame, but that's 1.5" and 2.25", why aren't those numbers the same?
[14:00:57] <fenn> otherwise the border would be a different width horizontal vs vertical
[14:01:12] <jepler_> where do you get 8.25 from?
[14:01:25] <fenn> yeah it should be 4 + 1.5 and 6 + 1.5
[14:01:33] <Jymmm> 5.5 * 1.5
[14:01:37] <jepler_> I'd have guessed as finn did
[14:01:40] <Jymmm> the ratio
[14:02:02] <Jymmm> 5.5 * 1.5 == 8.25
[14:02:05] <jepler_> the frame usually has the same width on both sides
[14:02:11] <Jymmm> jepler_ exactly
[14:02:18] <fenn> so 5.5 and 7.5
[14:03:26] <Jymmm> fenn: That's what I mean, but I'm not understandin why the ratio values are different from the +2" ones
[14:03:48] <Jymmm> 6/4=1.5
[14:04:05] <fenn> jymm.. take a line, ok, infinite ratio
[14:04:13] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[14:04:21] <fenn> now add a thick border around the line.. now you have some different ratio
[14:04:35] <jepler> It's just a coincidence that 5.5-4 and 6/4 are the same number
[14:05:49] <Jymmm> Do you guys see what I'm doing with the 1.5 though?
[14:05:56] <fenn> no
[14:06:12] <skunkworks> you are trying to do a ratio
[14:06:16] <Jymmm> ok, the ratio of a 4" by 6" photo is 1.5
[14:06:26] <fenn> 1.5 is kinda close to the golden mean i guess
[14:07:01] <Jymmm> So, If I have a 1"x5.5" that's 20 ft long, I need to figure out what length I need to chop it up to
[14:07:29] <Jymmm> I take the wide onf the lumber 5.5" multiple it by the ratio (1.5) to get the length needed
[14:07:37] <Jymmm> I take the width of the lumber 5.5" multiple it by the ratio (1.5) to get the length needed
[14:07:42] <jepler> I think you want pieces that are 6+1.5 so that there's a .75" border on each side of your 4x6 photo
[14:08:19] <fenn> or maybe he doesn't
[14:08:21] <Jymmm> jepler In reality, yes. But I'm not understanding why using the ratio (1.5) instead of +2 isn't working
[14:08:41] <fenn> Jymmm: did you do the line experiment like i told you to?! :)
[14:09:19] <Jymmm> fenn in my head, and it didn't make sense
[14:09:56] <jepler> If you have a panoramic photo, 48" by 6", do you want the border on the left and right to be 8x as wide as the border on the top and bottom?
[14:10:38] <Jymmm> jepler no
[14:11:31] <Jymmm> ok, so I'm using ratio when I shouldn't be. then what should I be using
[14:11:36] <Jymmm> ?
[14:11:42] <jepler> equal lengths on each side
[14:11:43] <fenn> addition
[14:12:37] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:14:09] <skunkworks> (5.5-4)+6
[14:18:39] <Jymmm> $framewidth = ($photowidth>$photoheight) ? ($frameheight-$photoheight) + $photowidth : [blah blah blah];
[17:30:57] <skunkworks> Hi
[17:34:57] <alex_joni> what's up sam?
[17:36:21] <skunkworks> lunch - eating oat meal
[17:37:59] <skunkworks> surfing
[17:40:02] <alex_joni> nice
[17:41:22] <skunkworks> I lead an exciting life
[17:41:39] <alex_joni> lol
[17:42:20] <skunkworks> did you see my first wiki edit?
[17:47:40] <alex_joni> yup, looks great
[18:01:32] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_dinner
[18:19:44] <les_w> hi alex and skunk
[18:20:24] <alex_joni> hi les
[18:20:58] <les_w> ah my resonator tuning still if off
[18:21:34] <les_w> I am going to try a corrugated truncated aluminum cone
[18:28:22] <giacus_dinner> giacus_dinner is now known as giacus
[19:27:34] <giacus> helloo
[19:28:05] <giacus> moin wiki succesful installed on my pc :P
[19:28:24] <giacus> http://taddeus.homelinux.org/robowiki
[19:29:29] <giacus> have a nice edit GUI
[19:30:59] <alex_joni> nice
[19:31:12] <giacus> yeah, really nice wiki engine
[19:32:16] <giacus> I have to change the Linux router box, too much old
[19:32:40] <giacus> does not support dyndns update
[19:33:06] <giacus> with a small HD I could install Debian and iptables
[19:33:28] <giacus> actually its a floppy with a 2.X kernel O_O
[19:33:35] <giacus> but all in memory
[19:34:35] <alex_joni> 2.x ?
[19:34:49] <giacus> yeah, coyote linux old vers.
[19:35:02] <giacus> very old* :(
[19:35:21] <giacus> think it use ipchains
[19:37:27] <giacus> 2.2
[19:40:16] <alex_joni> 2.2 is nice
[19:40:50] <giacus> phone..
[19:46:39] <giacus> re
[19:47:00] <giacus> yes, is nice as stability
[19:47:05] <giacus> not as features
[19:47:21] <Jymmm> les_w: You have tips/suggestions on assembling picture frames?
[19:47:46] <giacus> hey Jymmm :)
[19:47:53] <giacus> is les_w around ?
[19:49:11] <giacus> cnc
[19:49:12] <giacus> ops
[19:50:22] <giacus> I was looking at this http://cgi.ebay.it/scheda-per-controllo-motori-passo-passo-per-CNC_W0QQitemZ7593357058QQcategoryZ36332QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:50:45] <giacus> looks like a complete stepper control board
[19:50:58] <giacus> maybe standalone system
[19:51:14] <giacus> but he wrote with NO software
[19:51:58] <giacus> it seems there lots of microcontrollers up
[19:52:02] <giacus> or memories
[19:54:20] <les_w> here I am...in between cooking resonators again
[19:54:30] <giacus> hey les_w
[19:54:36] <les_w> hi giacus
[19:54:42] <giacus> I have to phone to Torin
[19:54:53] <les_w> oh neat
[19:54:53] <giacus> at Danaher Italia
[19:55:01] <les_w> I watched some last night
[19:55:07] <giacus> maybe they have the motors ..
[19:55:16] <les_w> oh that torin
[19:55:28] <les_w> yeah they might have them
[19:56:13] <giacus> http://www.danahermotion.it/prodotti.html
[19:56:18] <giacus> yes, I will ask
[19:56:19] <les_w> I'm here hydroforming little things out of 0.1 mm aluminum foil
[19:56:53] <giacus> nice
[19:57:14] <les_w> I have one problem...to take pictures, I need a macro lens
[19:57:22] <les_w> more than my camera has
[19:57:33] <giacus> mm
[19:57:53] <giacus> :)
[19:57:57] <les_w> I need about 3x magnification
[19:58:38] <les_w> was it alex that does the photography?
[19:58:50] <giacus> dunno
[19:59:17] <giacus> he maybe
[19:59:21] <les_w> ALEX............................................................................................................................?!
[19:59:31] <les_w> haha
[20:00:21] <les_w> I'm pretty sure he has the cameras to do it....
[20:00:34] <alex_joni> what?
[20:01:09] <alex_joni> les_w: what do you mean 3x magnification?
[20:03:30] <les_w> well, I'll need some closeup pictures of a transducer assembly that is about 7 mm diameter and 2 mm thick
[20:03:48] <les_w> the macro mode on my camera won't go that far
[20:04:42] <les_w> just would like that 7mm to fill about half the picture
[20:04:50] <les_w> without much cropping
[20:06:22] <alex_joni> well, I know of macro lenses that do 1:1
[20:06:37] <alex_joni> so 7mm on the sensor (which is about 20mm wide)
[20:06:48] <alex_joni> a bit under half the picture
[20:07:04] <jepler> les_w: http://www.photocritic.org/2005/macro-photography-on-a-budget/
[20:07:13] <alex_joni> but then again on a nice 8MP+ camera you can print it about 1m big
[20:08:30] <les_w> yeah
[20:08:36] <les_w> checking the link jeff
[20:09:52] <alex_joni> that's nice jeff
[20:10:08] <jepler> I haven't tried this for myself
[20:10:27] <les_w> my fuji camera does not have a removable lens
[20:10:29] <les_w> durn
[20:10:53] <les_w> still might be able to do something
[20:17:17] <les_w> oh well...glue is dry...yet another impedance run
[20:56:41] <Jymmm> les_w: You have tips/suggestions on assembling picture frames?
[21:10:26] <alex_joni> night all
[21:10:29] <Jymmm> nite
[21:10:39] <giacus> night alex_joni
[21:11:10] <giacus> Jymmm: are you going to machine 4 pieces for the frame ?
[21:11:32] <Jymmm> giacus yeah
[21:12:19] <giacus> only one should be simple, if your machinecan cover the area
[21:12:30] <giacus> for what I think ..
[21:12:45] <giacus> machine the first side, and after the oder side
[21:13:02] <giacus> the rectangle on the rear a bit bigger
[21:13:24] <Jymmm> giacus it's more assembly than anything else
[21:54:12] <les_w> corrugated nails are typical
[21:55:33] <les_w> butterfly inserts too
[21:57:35] <Jymmm> anything else?
[21:58:01] <les_w> l brackets
[21:58:04] <les_w> L
[21:58:17] <les_w> butterfly is very good
[21:58:24] <les_w> forces them together
[21:59:21] <Jymmm> Well, when I look at the frames in my home, I dont see any of those methods... I do see in some a 'slat' and in tohers looks just like glue alone (can't really tell).
[21:59:45] <Jymmm> I've been searchign the web for soem good writeups, but not a whole lot out there.
[21:59:50] <les_w> slat?
[22:00:12] <les_w> explain
[22:00:38] <Jymmm> they butt up the two edges, then have a 1/8" grove in the center, then they inserted a 1/8" slat in the groove
[22:01:14] <les_w> oh loose tenons
[22:01:14] <Jymmm> like a 1x1x.125 slat
[22:01:31] <les_w> want high quality work?
[22:01:49] <Jymmm> I'd love it
[22:01:56] <Jymmm> bah, phone...
[22:03:26] <les_w> Larger frames are problematic. If the wood shrinks the inner part of the miter always pulls apart.
[22:03:48] <les_w> even with glue
[22:04:33] <les_w> I like the butterfly.
[22:05:15] <les_w> routing the wood to recieve the buterfly was a pain
[22:05:27] <les_w> but with a cnc router it's no problem
[22:05:47] <Jymmm> back
[22:06:09] <Jymmm> I've never seen butterflies for sale
[22:06:42] <les_w> Someone ought to make a special plastic one for frames...they are usually wood
[22:06:59] <Jymmm> plastic?!
[22:07:08] <les_w> it would keep the miter always pulled together
[22:07:32] <les_w> yeah
[22:07:43] <les_w> delrin or something
[22:07:50] <Jymmm> goes the glue gonna stick to plastic securely?
[22:08:13] <les_w> a little plastic butterfly insert that is driven into a slightly smaller cutout
[22:08:29] <les_w> with the right glue it would
[22:08:41] <les_w> have I just invented something?
[22:08:47] <les_w> let me check
[22:12:11] <Jymmm> * Jymmm waits
[22:13:36] <les_w> heh seems all wood... some mention a ways down the page here
[22:13:44] <les_w> http://www.americanfurnituredsgn.com/Tool%20Page0403.htm
[22:16:22] <Jymmm> buts that's just a template
[22:22:22] <les_w> I'm thinking of a plastic gluable key tapered in two axes that would fit in the pocket
[22:22:38] <les_w> I think the wood one is called a dutchman or something
[22:22:56] <les_w> used long ago to repair cracks in ship hulls
[22:23:08] <Jymmm> I only have 3 axises
[22:23:35] <les_w> well the pocket would be 2d
[22:23:39] <Jymmm> unless I got a profiled tool or something
[22:23:54] <les_w> but the insert would be molded and two axis taper
[22:24:11] <Jymmm> like inlay pocket?
[22:24:19] <les_w> hmmm "v nails"
[22:24:21] <les_w> yeah
[22:24:40] <les_w> http://www.framing4yourself.com/equipment-supplies/frame-making-joining.htm#949
[22:24:43] <Jymmm> oh I thought you said corrugated nail again <---- POS!
[22:25:28] <les_w> Look at the vnails...I think most shops use them. I am not so fond of that concept either
[22:27:11] <Jymmm> it looks like most of those frames are made from composite material too
[22:27:16] <les_w> and...since Illinois tool works makes everything....
[22:27:26] <les_w> http://www.framingsupplies.com/itwamp/ItwAmp.htm
[22:27:41] <les_w> I have never worked with that division
[22:28:27] <Jymmm> $1400 for an entry level machine?! You get a 99% dosc I hope
[22:28:32] <Jymmm> discount
[22:28:33] <les_w> they seem to be vnailers
[22:29:12] <Jymmm> Hey I was bitching about a $89 tab gun... Finally found it (from all places) at HF
[22:29:20] <les_w> I guess if a vnail was made right it could pull a joint together
[22:29:28] <Jymmm> The EXACT same as everyone else, but for $15
[22:29:31] <les_w> I don't know
[22:29:41] <les_w> Uncle has a frame shop...
[22:29:52] <bill2or3> who knew picture frames were so complicated.
[22:30:16] <Jymmm> bill2or3 photo $80, cost of framing that photo $120
[22:30:28] <bill2or3> totally
[22:31:04] <Jymmm> and it's just strips of wood mitered and mat board is CHEAP
[22:31:35] <Jymmm> les_w I got a present for you...
[22:32:09] <les_w> huh?
[22:32:20] <Jymmm> les_w I http://www.internetlumber.com/Home/
[22:32:30] <Jymmm> les_w Happy Birthday!!!
[22:33:17] <Jymmm> brb... smoke
[22:33:19] <les_w> looking...you know ITW AMP is in Vermin hills illinois right where I'll be. I'll visit them!
[22:34:58] <les_w> I did meet them at IWF
[22:35:09] <les_w> but never visited the plant
[22:37:16] <Jymmm> back, les_w you like your present?
[22:37:25] <les_w> nice site
[22:37:34] <les_w> for hobbyists
[22:37:46] <Jymmm> oh a truck load is hobbiest?
[22:37:52] <les_w> about double what I pay
[22:38:06] <les_w> but good selection
[22:38:10] <Jymmm> les, take this personally.... asshole! LOL
[22:38:23] <les_w> ha
[22:38:31] <Jymmm> I get raped just puling into the parking lot!
[22:39:08] <les_w> well I was checking on stocking exotic lumber here for hobbyists.
[22:39:12] <les_w> Might do it
[22:39:30] <les_w> We'll see how many show up at my class.
[22:39:51] <les_w> It's quite a drive to get exotic wood here
[22:39:59] <Jymmm> well shit... see if I give you anything from now on! =)
[22:40:21] <les_w> and...I would charge about the same as internetlumber
[22:40:41] <Jymmm> Dont make me come to GA and hurt you!
[22:40:47] <les_w> ulp haha
[22:40:52] <Jymmm> I KNOW where you live !
[22:41:23] <Jymmm> I'll bring me some 60yo toothless females and tell them all that your looking to marry!
[22:41:30] <les_w> that must be a rough business...bet inventory has to sit forever
[22:41:34] <les_w> GULP
[22:42:04] <les_w> and the good stuff gets culled out...what do you do with the rest?
[22:42:16] <Jymmm> The v-nails I might try, cheap enough to experment with
[22:42:41] <Jymmm> Well their 20bf hobbypacks seem okey.
[22:42:55] <les_w> There seem to be plenty of under $100 vnailers out there
[22:43:10] <les_w> I guess they have to be pushed in rather than driven
[22:43:43] <les_w> I'll get educated about them at ITWamp if I have time to visit
[22:43:50] <Jymmm> please do
[22:44:08] <Jymmm> specicically on hardwoods
[22:45:04] <Jymmm> I'm going to order one (maybe two) of these, every place else selss them from $40 to $100 --> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91251
[22:45:11] <les_w> 20 bd feet cherry fas...$130...yeah seems about right for retail
[22:45:36] <les_w> I pay $3 /bd ft over 100...
[22:45:42] <Jymmm> les_w where?
[22:45:52] <Jymmm> How are you getting pricing so good?
[22:46:15] <Jymmm> Is it just becasue you order so much?
[22:46:20] <Jymmm> over time
[22:46:30] <les_w> Swuanee lumber in duluth georgia
[22:46:34] <les_w> yeah
[22:46:49] <Jymmm> what is walk pricing?
[22:46:53] <Jymmm> walk-in
[22:47:18] <Jymmm> I mean shit, it almost be cheaper to buy it from you and have it shipped to me.
[22:47:18] <les_w> They keep a little lumber up front for walkins
[22:47:31] <les_w> it's higher
[22:47:52] <les_w> $4 or 4.50 for cherry I think
[22:48:04] <Jymmm> internetlumber is selling ipe 1x6 for $1.30bf, I'm paying $3.40bf
[22:48:11] <les_w> 80 or 90 for 20 board feet
[22:56:10] <les_w> I found their wholesale page
[22:56:13] <les_w> let me look
[22:56:35] <Jymmm> Douglas Fir 1x8, 2.5LFT @ 4.10 = $10.25 is what I just paid.
[22:57:46] <Jymmm> Mangarid KD 5/4 x 6, 8LFT @ 2.49 = $19.92
[22:58:36] <les_w> I don't understand the wholesale bundle page
[22:58:49] <Jymmm> url?
[22:59:01] <les_w> like soft maple 1315/bundle
[22:59:12] <les_w> http://www.internetlumber.com/Product/CategoryInfo.aspx?cid=101
[22:59:32] <les_w> if that's per thousand it's a pretty good price
[23:00:14] <Jymmm> I dont see mention of 1315/nundle on that page
[23:00:19] <Jymmm> bundle
[23:00:48] <les_w> soft maple
[23:01:17] <Jymmm> where do you see '1315' ?
[23:01:31] <les_w> and walnut...$1875.....no way that's 1000 bf of firsts and seconds
[23:02:00] <les_w> second row third column
[23:02:06] <Jymmm> les_w http://www.internetlumber.com/Home/GeneralQuestions.aspx
[23:05:37] <les_w> I'll try to give em a call tommorow...they are close by. Now way their bubinga is what...$3.92/bf????
[23:06:23] <Jymmm> they have a TL number. call em now damnit! lol
[23:06:50] <les_w> it's 6:06 out here
[23:07:14] <Jymmm> ok, so what are you questioning... the quality?
[23:07:23] <les_w> the price
[23:07:39] <les_w> ash for $0.81 / bdft?
[23:07:58] <Jymmm> unsurfaced
[23:08:11] <les_w> surfacing costs basically nothing
[23:08:13] <Jymmm> not even s2s
[23:08:29] <les_w> suwanee doesn't even charge
[23:08:35] <Jymmm> yeah, and they even offer it for like an additional $0.30 bf
[23:09:24] <les_w> You ought to see those giant 2 side olivers...planes an 8'board in about 2 seconds
[23:09:31] <Jymmm> lol
[23:09:49] <les_w> I buy mine "hit or miss"
[23:09:55] <Jymmm> $818/500BF = 1.636BF
[23:10:00] <les_w> just knock the tops off
[23:10:17] <les_w> per 500 makes more sense
[23:10:25] <Jymmm> $1498/1000bf= $1.50BF
[23:10:27] <les_w> but I don't see that
[23:10:34] <skunkworks> my father has a oliver jointer - we call it the air craft carrier - must be 17 inches. came out of a hight school shop class.
[23:10:45] <les_w> oh neat
[23:11:37] <les_w> ach I didn't order the supllies for the finishing class
[23:11:44] <les_w> must do that tommorow
[23:12:28] <skunkworks> 3 phase 440 motor. runs just fine on 220.
[23:12:36] <skunkworks> ;)
[23:13:01] <les_w> just lower torque I guess
[23:13:44] <skunkworks> don't notice it. but I am sure
[23:14:09] <skunkworks> I pushed a lot of wood through that thing.
[23:14:28] <Jymmm> les_w I dont know if you saw it when I mentioned I REALLY am interested in videos of your classes.
[23:14:54] <les_w> I wanted to do some production runs on something wood besides the calls, but I am pretty tied up with an invention.
[23:16:03] <les_w> Have some daunting technical issues to solve.
[23:17:08] <les_w> Also, politics. My best patent goes public domain this august.
[23:17:44] <Jymmm> les_w I dont know if you saw it when I mentioned I REALLY am interested in videos of your classes.
[23:17:50] <les_w> I saw
[23:18:02] <les_w> I'll see about taping it
[23:18:31] <Jymmm> les_w ok, cool =)
[23:19:31] <les_w> Some strange things are gonna happen in my life when that patent goes PD
[23:20:11] <Jymmm> you gonna learn to sing "I'M IN THE MONEY!!! I'M IN THE MONEY!!! "
[23:20:38] <les_w> I hope.
[23:20:41] <bill2or3> patent?
[23:21:23] <les_w> bill, I am the inventor of the heated car side mirror, or at least the one used on most cars.
[23:21:48] <les_w> Half a billion in sales so far.
[23:21:48] <bill2or3> cool.
[23:21:57] <les_w> It was for a large corporation.
[23:22:00] <bill2or3> what cause a patent to 'go public' ?
[23:22:06] <bill2or3> and what does that actually mean?
[23:22:09] <les_w> it's expiring
[23:22:23] <bill2or3> what's the term on it?
[23:22:33] <les_w> pre 90 17 years
[23:22:39] <bill2or3> ahh.
[23:22:41] <les_w> after 90 20 years
[23:23:00] <bill2or3> and when it expires, it is no longer a patented idea/object/whatever ?
[23:23:14] <les_w> I thought I had three more years but someone reminded me it was 17 in 89
[23:23:38] <les_w> It means anyone can make it.
[23:23:40] <skunkworks> it is no longer protected (les will not get any royalties) and any one can use it free and clear.
[23:23:46] <bill2or3> ahh.
[23:23:52] <skunkworks> Very impressive les
[23:24:00] <les_w> thanks
[23:24:00] <bill2or3> I was confused about why you'd be singing "I'm in the money..."
[23:24:04] <skunkworks> what made your idea different?
[23:24:16] <bill2or3> so you're getting royalties now, but wont be after it expires?
[23:24:21] <les_w> Only I and the people I trained know how to manufacture the thing
[23:24:56] <les_w> No, bill...Large corporations do not give royalties
[23:25:05] <skunkworks> damn
[23:25:25] <les_w> I got a nice salary as a r&d manager
[23:26:14] <les_w> And they are giving me $20k/mo research money to invent othe rthings
[23:26:36] <les_w> but I would rather have had 5% ownership of that patent!
[23:26:53] <les_w> I did try.
[23:27:02] <les_w> REAL hard.
[23:28:47] <les_w> Oh, bill, I also got a fellowship. That's a job for life, but you can do what you want.
[23:28:55] <les_w> but no royalties
[23:29:30] <bill2or3> so the expiration doesn't really affect you at all.
[23:30:01] <les_w> well yes it will
[23:30:06] <les_w> big time
[23:30:10] <bill2or3> how so?
[23:30:21] <les_w> the japanese will be on me in a heatbeat
[23:30:41] <bill2or3> to teach them how to manufacture them?
[23:30:48] <les_w> sure.
[23:30:55] <bill2or3> the patent doesn't contain enough details for them to figure it out?
[23:31:01] <les_w> nope.
[23:31:06] <les_w> never.
[23:31:14] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 suddenly realizes how little he knows about the patent system
[23:31:36] <bill2or3> 1. collect underware 2. ? 3. profit!
[23:31:39] <les_w> They tried but failed technically...then we sued them.
[23:32:06] <les_w> Germans did too.
[23:33:05] <bill2or3> $20k/mo is a lot of research.
[23:33:12] <bill2or3> sound like mirrors have treated you well.
[23:33:17] <bill2or3> 'sounds'
[23:33:27] <les_w> keeps the shop going nicely
[23:33:36] <les_w> and a couple employees
[23:33:48] <bill2or3> research shop, not production, right?
[23:34:11] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks of stuff he needs invented.
[23:34:15] <les_w> My inventions usually sell, but none have like that heater.
[23:34:27] <bill2or3> anything else I might have heard of?
[23:34:59] <dmessier> hello all
[23:35:08] <les_w> Oh I have the latest patent on the plastic thing around 6 packs
[23:35:20] <les_w> (duck chokers?)
[23:35:34] <dmessier> pardon
[23:35:38] <les_w> hi dmessier
[23:35:45] <dmessier> hi les
[23:36:08] <bill2or3> that must be $$$
[23:36:16] <les_w> there was a big flap about the plastic 6 pack holders strangling animals...rmember?
[23:36:17] <dmessier> whats a duck choker???
[23:36:46] <dmessier> oh yeas ok them... how'd you fix??
[23:37:05] <les_w> It made a lot. Actually it seems to be going away. Cans are in PE reinforced cardboard boxes these days
[23:37:45] <dmessier> ours are being shrink wraped with logos
[23:37:48] <les_w> put some cut in places....reformulated to break down quick in UV
[23:38:10] <dmessier> MUST it be plastic???
[23:38:25] <bill2or3> he's bioengineering smarter ducks.
[23:38:43] <les_w> yeah. oil basically. The boxes are trees though.
[23:38:55] <dmessier> what about a dough type mat'l.... like pizza doough gone stretchy
[23:39:04] <Jymmm> les_w: All 3D renderings... http://www.maxwellrender.com/gallery.htm
[23:40:03] <les_w> oops don't have flash
[23:40:35] <les_w> dmessier, these days I am working all the time on energy conversion.
[23:41:10] <dmessier> me too...
[23:41:22] <les_w> I have a "thing" that cost a few bucks at most, has no moving parts....
[23:41:27] <dmessier> converting MY energy to $$$$
[23:41:37] <les_w> and makes electricity from compressed air.
[23:41:50] <dmessier> i like the sosunds of that
[23:42:07] <les_w> So does the large corporation
[23:42:10] <les_w> a lot
[23:42:26] <les_w> which is why I am getting the kind of funding I am
[23:42:48] <dmessier> i may be able to help with the compressed air bit and make some power too
[23:43:00] <les_w> I am under a lot of pressure though.
[23:43:07] <dmessier> IS it over U??
[23:43:25] <les_w> ?
[23:43:28] <dmessier> pressure to do what??
[23:44:14] <les_w> pressure as in getting this out of the lab and into products
[23:44:21] <dmessier> are you scaling/mocking it up for someone else?????
[23:44:47] <les_w> I invented it. It is for a large corporation.
[23:45:12] <dmessier> wheres the pressure .. YOU need a MANUFACTURING manager... is all
[23:45:13] <les_w> However, If it is successful, They want me to manufacture it.
[23:45:38] <les_w> And yes, I will hire a plant manager first thing.
[23:45:55] <les_w> I only want to be the guru.
[23:46:02] <les_w> (and own the plant)
[23:46:04] <dmessier> make me an offer i cant refuse...
[23:46:17] <Jymmm> * Jymmm holds up a sign... "Will Plant Manage for _____________"
[23:46:30] <dmessier> i have the rest of the plan in my pocket...
[23:46:36] <les_w> haha first it has to get out of the lab
[23:46:38] <les_w> but...
[23:46:52] <les_w> it is looking VERY VERY promising
[23:47:14] <dmessier> mine too.. but im hoping for a single home install this summer..
[23:47:37] <dmessier> when that happens... IM GOLDEN
[23:47:46] <les_w> heh
[23:48:00] <les_w> I do research, but I love manufacturing
[23:48:21] <dmessier> i do man but love doing r&d
[23:48:43] <dmessier> prototyp maker in me..
[23:48:58] <les_w> I like seeing those widgets drop down the chute
[23:49:28] <dmessier> im gonna "RAPE" gravity
[23:49:35] <les_w> clink...a buck for me...clink...a buck for me.......haha
[23:49:45] <dmessier> for as long as she'll let me
[23:50:14] <les_w> don't be pumping water up the hill now for turbines....
[23:50:57] <dmessier> it will move the water..but no turbines... CLOSED system
[23:51:28] <les_w> an elevated reservoir is way more efficient than any battery or fuel cell could ever be
[23:53:00] <dmessier> id like to be able to divulge more.. but you know...
[23:53:03] <les_w> don't say too much...i'll figure it out haha
[23:54:42] <les_w> I have to dig a pond reservoir soon.
[23:54:50] <les_w> a little one.
[23:55:11] <dmessier> lets say... ive been a gravity JUNKIE all my life... ive skied,, canoed w/w kayaks... jumped out of good airplanes.. hang & para gliders... gravity IS the only thing thats free abUSE it.. theres lots
[23:55:14] <bill2or3> les, make a generator that uses a solar powered stirling, to generate compressed air, to blow thru a hilsch vortex, on to a peltier jucntion, which outputs power.
[23:55:17] <bill2or3> what could be simpler!
[23:55:57] <les_w> haha
[23:56:24] <les_w> I'll tell you I start thinking about stuff when I pay these gas bills
[23:56:33] <les_w> $630 for january
[23:56:37] <bill2or3> try to work in some electricty->hydrogen->fuel cell->electricty in there somewhere too, ok?
[23:56:47] <dmessier> once my system is started it will only stop when it runs out of gravity
[23:57:23] <les_w> that's like a fun little gravity fact:
[23:57:23] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 runs home.
[23:57:24] <dmessier> i WILL be OFF grid sooner than later
[23:57:27] <bill2or3> later folks.
[23:57:33] <les_w> later
[23:57:53] <les_w> I loaded up on wood....but it's all green
[23:58:02] <Jymmm> dmessier not unless you planning on running a cnc off of water power =)
[23:58:14] <dmessier> smokey... and slow
[23:58:28] <dmessier> ill run it ALL of this system
[23:58:37] <les_w> gas +electric was nearly $1000 in january
[23:58:45] <les_w> granted the shop uses some
[23:58:58] <les_w> it's nuts
[23:58:58] <dmessier> you need this more than me brother...
[23:59:05] <les_w> talk about rape...
[23:59:29] <dmessier> its free and shes a willing participant... lOL
[23:59:41] <les_w> well I have 20 tons or so of (wet) red oak....
[23:59:57] <dmessier> poop fart stinker