#emc | Logs for 2006-02-22

[00:09:55] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[00:09:55] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[00:23:41] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-SUPPLY-24-VOLT-3-6-AMP-24V_W0QQitemZ7593059690QQcategoryZ58286QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:23:42] <bill2or3> hmm
[00:26:55] <bill2or3> is 24v enough?
[00:45:55] <giacus> night
[01:04:50] <les_w> anyone home?
[01:05:12] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is
[01:05:24] <les_w> ah yes still early there
[01:05:46] <les_w> what 5:05?
[01:05:52] <Jymmm> yep
[01:06:14] <les_w> got a call about my wood finishing classes
[01:06:19] <les_w> it's on I guess
[01:06:51] <les_w> about 30 people
[01:07:04] <les_w> I guess I can spring for supplies and stuff
[01:07:50] <les_w> first lesson is filling grain
[01:07:57] <les_w> then the french polish
[01:08:17] <Jymmm> les_w take video, then send me the dvd =)
[01:08:38] <Jymmm> the complete collection of dvd's that is =)
[01:08:42] <les_w> I'll let them practice on walnut cnc sign blanks
[01:09:03] <les_w> when they are done...I'l just run em through the belt sander
[01:09:51] <les_w> video is not a bad idea really
[01:10:05] <les_w> may have some photos for the local paper
[01:15:26] <les_w> aeiiii!!!
[01:15:30] <Jymmm> les_w speaking of which... need to bring it inside - brb
[01:15:31] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[01:15:31] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[01:15:34] <les_w> k
[01:16:07] <les_w> bye and hi everyone.
[01:18:57] <les_w> hmmm just got a skype message.
[01:19:23] <les_w> wants to design a push button joystick for cell phones.
[01:20:52] <Jymmm> My old cellphone has that
[01:23:38] <les_w> tell me
[01:23:42] <les_w> about it
[01:24:01] <les_w> like the thing in laptops?
[01:29:52] <Jymmm> sorta, but if you want that I have a mfg that oem's those
[01:30:07] <Jymmm> no, it's a 4-way + center joystick
[01:32:03] <Jymmm> It works well, even with big fingers, but you have to get used to it.
[01:45:49] <skunkworks> cradek?
[01:46:12] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[01:46:13] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-22#T01-46-12
[01:46:33] <Jymmm> FLASHBACK --> http://search.ebay.com/8260707622
[01:55:25] <A-L-P-H-A> Mint In Box? Lies.
[01:55:26] <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha
[01:55:31] <A-L-P-H-A> that's like 30 years old.
[01:55:39] <A-L-P-H-A> Gah. my internet is slow as fuck.
[01:57:17] <Jymmm> Yeah, my first video game =)
[01:57:35] <Jymmm> I wanted to see if it had any value... not a chance in hell $36
[02:06:48] <skunkworks> cradek: ?
[02:26:57] <Jymmm> les_w: btw... I was serious about the video dvds.
[02:28:48] <jmk_sleep> jmk_sleep is now known as jmkasunich
[02:30:03] <jmkasunich> any linux networking experts hanging around?
[02:32:24] <alpha1125> alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[02:48:20] <jepler> strange, just earlier today cradek was saying he wished he had a real pong machine.
[02:48:55] <jmkasunich> ask and it will show up on ebay
[02:49:46] <jepler> man .. the colors for rapids & feeds sure make axis look garish
[02:50:44] <jepler> but it's sure neat that each part of a canned cycle is colored right!
[02:51:06] <jmkasunich> jepler: I have a linux networking question....
[02:51:09] <LawrenceG> cradek: you alive in the east?
[02:51:25] <jepler> jmkasunich: I'll answer it if I can.
[02:51:39] <jmkasunich> suppose you have two NICs in one box, connected by a wire
[02:51:51] <jmkasunich> is there any way to send stuff from one the other to test
[02:52:01] <pfred1> you'd need a special crossover wire
[02:52:04] <jmkasunich> ping just goes directly to the target port
[02:52:05] <jepler> You need a "crossover cable" which is wired differently from a normal ethernet cable
[02:52:18] <jmkasunich> forget physical, assume a switch or hub
[02:52:18] <pfred1> RX and TX are transposed
[02:52:22] <jepler> if you have that cable .. hmm .. I don't know offhand
[02:52:24] <jmkasunich> I'm talking about the linux size
[02:52:28] <jmkasunich> side
[02:52:37] <pfred1> try this ping
[02:52:50] <pfred1> save yourself the trouble :)
[02:52:50] <jmkasunich> ping <ip of eth0> goes directly to eth0, likewise ping <ip of eth1>
[02:52:56] <LawrenceG> each network card gets its own ip address....
[02:53:02] <jmkasunich> right, that is done
[02:53:12] <pfred1> I got 2 NICs in this machine but they go different places
[02:53:15] <jepler> ping has a -I argument, but on my system it doesn't seem to make a difference
[02:53:20] <jmkasunich> right, I've done that too, for routing
[02:53:35] <jepler> if I 'ping -I eth1 my-ip' vs 'ping -I lo my-ip'
[02:54:00] <jepler> I get the same, very low, times
[02:54:32] <jmkasunich> yeah, its just going to the "inside" of the eth card
[02:54:36] <LawrenceG> are they on 2 separate networks? what are the ip's and netmasks?
[02:54:37] <jmkasunich> not out over the wire
[02:55:10] <jmkasunich> and
[02:55:46] <jmkasunich> basically I'm trying to test network driver functionality without having two PCs (and two copies of the driver under developement to keep in sync)
[02:55:55] <Jymmm> jmkasunich nic to nic requires a xover cable (no hub)
[02:55:56] <jmkasunich> I can make the IPs whatever I want
[02:56:23] <jmkasunich> Jymm: ignore the physical layer, I already have that working
[02:56:36] <jmkasunich> my problem is Linux networking (routing)
[02:56:42] <jepler> jmkasunich: Why do both have to be the same driver? Is there something special (it's not really ethernet?)
[02:57:03] <Jymmm> jmkasunich you want both subnet to pass traffic to each other?
[02:57:10] <pfred1> just edit /etc/hosts
[02:57:10] <jmkasunich> jepler: you caught me, its actually wireless (wavelan)
[02:57:16] <jmkasunich> the driver has problems
[02:57:37] <pfred1> hmm you using the wrapper?
[02:57:47] <jepler> jmkasunich: Don't configure card 2 with an IP address. Just run tcpdump or a similar tool on it to see if the ARP requests for local IP appear on it.
[02:57:48] <jmkasunich> wrapper?
[02:58:14] <pfred1> lots of those wireless networking cards someone wrote a wrapper so you can use the Windows drivers with them in Linux
[02:58:22] <jmkasunich> retch
[02:58:24] <jepler> I think pfred1 means "ndiswrapper"
[02:58:26] <pfred1> ndiswrapper or something?
[02:58:28] <pfred1> yeah
[02:58:30] <jmkasunich> there is a linux driver for these
[02:58:38] <jmkasunich> and has been for darn near 10 years
[02:58:39] <jepler> jmkasunich: see what I'm saying with my suggestion?
[02:58:42] <pfred1> well does it work?
[02:58:49] <jmkasunich> but the hw is uncommon these days and the driver has some bitrot
[02:58:54] <jmkasunich> jepler I think so
[02:59:05] <jepler> jmkasunich: I dunno if it'll work but it's the best idea I've had so far.
[02:59:49] <jmkasunich> the other alternative is to get my second laptop set up with ubuntu and put the fixed driver on both
[02:59:55] <jepler> is wavelan one of the pre-802.11b cards?
[02:59:59] <jmkasunich> ultimately thats what I want to do - point to point link
[02:59:59] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:00:11] <jmkasunich> 915MHz, 2MB/s
[03:00:28] <skunkworks> bytes?
[03:00:31] <jepler> something nice about them (distance? antenna?) or you just don't want to spring for some newer cards?
[03:00:34] <pfred1> me i just drilled a hole in the wall and tolled cat-5 through it
[03:00:38] <pfred1> tossed even
[03:01:00] <pfred1> spackle is cheap
[03:01:08] <jmkasunich> the price was right ($0 for 6 units)
[03:01:22] <pfred1> yeah even spackle ain't that cheap!
[03:01:24] <jmkasunich> pfred1: I prefer wires too, but this is for a mobile robot thingy
[03:01:24] <Jymmm> high latency though
[03:01:32] <jepler> $0 is a good price
[03:02:11] <jmkasunich> at this point its almost become a battle between me and these cards
[03:02:25] <jmkasunich> I really should just get ubuntu on the second machine and stick one card in each
[03:02:37] <Jymmm> jmkasunich you're trying to use them as a AP ?
[03:03:42] <Jymmm> or strictly as a bridged?
[03:03:50] <jmkasunich> bridge
[03:04:02] <Jymmm> ah
[03:04:07] <jmkasunich> I want to ssh from one machine to the other, thats all
[03:04:39] <Jymmm> Well, a bridge doens't get ip's, it' sjust a passthru
[03:04:49] <jmkasunich> bridge is the wrong word then
[03:05:14] <jmkasunich> I will eventually make one card, and the other 4.5, and that should be that
[03:05:38] <Jymmm> ah, ok...
[03:06:00] <Jymmm> yeah a /32
[03:06:05] <Jymmm> or whever
[03:06:41] <Jymmm> do you care about the numbering?
[03:06:45] <jmkasunich> no
[03:07:02] <jmkasunich> just not 192.168.1.x or 3.x, I already have nets with those IPs
[03:07:16] <Jymmm> ok, just for human sake... make the link like 10.0.0.x
[03:07:28] <jmkasunich> 1.x is the NAT household network, 3.x is the subnet for the compile farm
[03:08:04] <jmkasunich> the IP numbers are really irrelevant
[03:08:08] <Jymmm> do you have diag tool for the wifi to see if they're talkiing to each other?
[03:08:22] <Jymmm> s/talking/seeing/
[03:08:37] <jmkasunich> no, but I've been hacking in the driver - I know packets are going from one to the other, I've seen em with my very own eyes
[03:09:38] <Jymmm> but that could be bcast too
[03:09:38] <jmkasunich> problem is the card's RX_RCV_OK bit isn't getting set, so the driver discards the packets
[03:09:38] <jmkasunich> (but I've verified that the entire packet arrives correctly)
[03:09:38] <Jymmm> make/model wifi cards?
[03:09:45] <jmkasunich> Lucent WaveLan PCMCIA
[03:09:52] <jmkasunich> old stuff
[03:10:00] <jmkasunich> Linux driver was written in the mid 90's
[03:10:12] <Jymmm> http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Wavelan.html
[03:10:16] <Jymmm> ?
[03:10:21] <jmkasunich> been there, read it twice
[03:10:29] <jmkasunich> been working on this since yesterday evening
[03:11:07] <jmkasunich> like I said, the driver hacking part is no problem, it coming up with a test case that actually puts packets in the air that is giving me greif
[03:11:30] <jmkasunich> if I ping 192.168.4.<nonexistant> I see eth0 sending the ARP packet, and eth1 receiving it
[03:11:47] <jmkasunich> but since it isn't addressed to eth1, linux drops it
[03:12:16] <jmkasunich> if I ping 192.168.4.<eth1>, it doesn't go out thru eth0, it goes direct to the "inside" of eth1
[03:13:02] <jmkasunich> what I need is a way to send packets out eth0 and have them be received, not dropped, by eth1
[03:13:37] <Jymmm> you ping 192.168.4.<nonexistant> from what though?
[03:13:54] <jmkasunich>
[03:14:04] <jmkasunich> eth0 =
[03:14:11] <jmkasunich> eth1 =
[03:14:19] <Jymmm> If both cards are in the same computer, it's gonna OSPF
[03:14:27] <jmkasunich> OSPF?
[03:14:34] <Jymmm> Open Shortest PAth First
[03:14:46] <jmkasunich> right, thats what I already said
[03:14:53] <jmkasunich> and I'm looking for a way around that
[03:15:02] <jmkasunich> I thought maybe it would be a common trick for testing stuff
[03:15:10] <Jymmm> hold on...
[03:15:18] <jmkasunich> pretend one computer is two and let it talk to itself on two differnet IPs
[03:15:54] <jmkasunich> spent a couple hours googling this afternoon, but obviously I haven't hit on the right words to search for
[03:16:06] <Jymmm> change the metric
[03:17:17] <Jymmm> I coudln't remember that if my life dependant on it.... had to ask =)
[03:18:42] <jmkasunich> The metric value is traditionally used by some operating systems to compute the cost of a route. Linux doesn't use this value yet, but defines it for compatibility, nevertheless.
[03:18:54] <jmkasunich> not encouraging
[03:19:13] <Jymmm> oh wth
[03:19:28] <jmkasunich> (I got that from a web page....)
[03:19:40] <Jymmm> I'm asking your question to someone
[03:19:47] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich googles more about metric
[03:22:41] <Jymmm> metric works, just not for that I was just told
[03:23:58] <Jymmm> cause it sees the IP of the card as local, so it never boths putting it out on the wire
[03:24:25] <Jymmm> better to use two boxes for this jmkasunich
[03:24:55] <jmkasunich> looks that way
[03:25:21] <jmkasunich> heh, I just thought of one thing that would work (if this was a more capable box)
[03:25:23] <Jymmm> Yeah, there's no need for it to send traffic out the wire, as it sees that ip as local.
[03:25:37] <jmkasunich> virtual machine
[03:25:54] <Jymmm> far easier to use two boxes
[03:25:57] <Jymmm> KISS
[03:26:13] <jmkasunich> right - I definitely don't want to go there (VM)
[03:26:30] <jmkasunich> now if I can only find the cdrom drive for the other laptop to install ubuntu
[03:26:57] <jmkasunich> I hate laptops
[03:27:00] <Jymmm> I have a paraport ethernet card =)
[03:27:43] <Jymmm> no floppy?
[03:27:54] <jmkasunich> it has floppy
[03:28:14] <Jymmm> can't you boot from it and do a network install?
[03:28:29] <jmkasunich> I dunno if ubuntu has boot floppies
[03:29:09] <jmkasunich> the laptop already has RH7 on it, so if booting a generic linux would allow a net install I'm half way there
[03:29:26] <jmkasunich> I also have an ordinary, wired PCMCIA ethernet card so it should be net-able
[03:30:31] <jmkasunich> but how do you install ubuntu over RH from the net? doesn't sound like something to do for fun
[03:30:31] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich digs thru piles of crap looking for the cd drive
[03:31:34] <skunkworks> cradek: ?
[03:31:39] <skunkworks> bill?
[03:33:10] <Jymmm> jmkasunich You're lucky day.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartBootManagerHowto
[03:35:36] <jmkasunich> that will let it boot and continue the install from a cdrom drive
[03:35:43] <jmkasunich> but you still need the cdrom drive
[03:36:02] <Jymmm> But there might be a way to install from the network instead of cdrom
[03:36:12] <jmkasunich> possible
[03:36:13] <Jymmm> Debian allows that.
[03:36:48] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich keeps looking (on the web for net install, and in the crap piles for the cdrom)
[03:39:04] <Jymmm> you could ask in #ubuntu I guess
[03:39:21] <jepler> I think SBM is a trick to allow CDROM booting, you still have to have a CDROM but you get around a BIOS boot media limitation
[03:39:58] <jmkasunich> right - thats how I read it
[03:40:04] <jmkasunich> and that isn't my problem
[03:40:25] <jmkasunich> I know the machine can boot from CD, thats how I installed RH on it a couple years ago
[03:40:52] <cradek> hi all
[03:41:18] <jmkasunich> you know anything about network install of ubuntu?
[03:41:27] <jmkasunich> over top of RH 7 in this case
[03:41:29] <cradek> no, I've only used the CD
[03:41:43] <jmkasunich> figured, thats what 99.9% of folks do
[03:41:52] <jmkasunich> I would to if I could find the damned CD drive
[03:42:21] <cradek> can you get to the hard drive without too much disassembly? You could throw it in the other laptop
[03:42:34] <cradek> some are easy, some impossible
[03:42:59] <jmkasunich> getting to the drive is easy (I actually have two, one with doze on it, one with linux)
[03:43:24] <jmkasunich> but the laptop in question is a old NEC, the other one is a not-quite-so-old HP
[03:43:42] <jmkasunich> not sure if the connectors will match up.
[03:43:56] <cradek> sometimes the drives are standard, but inside some kind of carrier that gives a nonstandard connector.
[03:44:03] <cradek> just a thought. probably a pain.
[03:44:11] <jmkasunich> won't hardware detection during the install will be all wrong when I move it back, right?
[03:45:16] <jmkasunich> the NEC drive is in a carrier, thats why its so easy to switch
[03:45:16] <cradek> just X, and you can make it reconfigure
[03:45:16] <jmkasunich> I don't even care about X
[03:45:16] <skunkworks> hi cradek
[03:45:16] <cradek> then it would probably be fine
[03:45:16] <cradek> skunkworks: hi
[03:45:16] <skunkworks> I think I found another little issue.
[03:45:20] <jmkasunich> the whole purpose of this exercise is to have a mobile brain, I would interact with it thru ssh
[03:47:48] <cradek> jmkasunich: I've only installed freebsd over the network, and I know that works great
[03:47:58] <cradek> skunkworks: what issue?
[03:47:59] <Jymmm> jmkasunich http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-3968.html
[03:48:24] <skunkworks> cradek - when you get a chance could you shut ubuntu down with emc2 running?
[03:49:02] <cradek> skunkworks: alex said that hangs for him, but I tried it and didn't have a problem
[03:49:44] <jmkasunich> I would think shutting down while RT threads are still running is a crapshoot
[03:50:13] <cradek> yeah, even if it does hang, it seems like something we can fix by not doing that
[03:51:16] <jmkasunich> "realtime" is in etc/init.d
[03:51:37] <jmkasunich> we probably don't want it to run on startup, but can it be arranged to run on shutdown?
[03:52:37] <LawrenceG> cradek: hi...
[03:52:43] <cradek> hi
[03:53:01] <LawrenceG> got mini running with big fonts...
[03:53:17] <LawrenceG> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emcdevel/2006-02-21#T23-56-31
[03:53:20] <cradek> I saw that
[03:53:31] <cradek> instead of changing all the inis, can you fix mini?
[03:53:45] <LawrenceG> great... its actually line #1136 not 1140... I reinstalled to test it
[03:53:53] <cradek> (tkemc also had bugs that caused you to not be able to set the font at all)
[03:54:40] <LawrenceG> mini will work with the internal defaults, its just a bit nicer with the font you suggested
[03:55:08] <LawrenceG> for some reason the call to set font was missing
[03:55:29] <LawrenceG> the routine was there... just never called
[03:55:43] <LawrenceG> setfontx
[03:55:50] <cradek> LawrenceG: I understand it works, but it would be nice if it didn't look "weird" to people used to using it
[03:56:10] <LawrenceG> weird?
[03:56:22] <cradek> yeah, wrong - different - funny
[03:57:15] <LawrenceG> let me look at defaults again.... I just tried changing the ini to make sure that option was working
[03:59:34] <LawrenceG> how do I get the config picker to find configs in my home dir?
[03:59:51] <cradek> use the right path ~/emc2/configs/xxxx
[03:59:52] <LawrenceG> defaults look fine
[04:00:43] <LawrenceG> tried that....
[04:00:56] <cradek> installed or rip?
[04:01:11] <LawrenceG> debs
[04:01:21] <cradek> I'm pretty sure it works then
[04:01:35] <cradek> 99% sure
[04:02:21] <cradek> what's the full path to your ini?
[04:02:43] <LawrenceG> ok... i created dir call /home/lg/emc2/configs
[04:03:26] <cradek> so under that you should have /home/lg/emc2/configs/configname/something.ini
[04:04:22] <LawrenceG> I made files shoptask_core_stepper.hal, shoptask_pinout.hal, stepper-inch-shoptask.ini
[04:04:47] <cradek> inside /home/lg/emc2/configs/shoptask/ ?
[04:04:53] <LawrenceG> ok... maybe missing 1 level of dir with config name
[04:05:02] <cradek> yeah
[04:05:12] <cradek> you can have several configs in ~/emc2/configs/
[04:06:29] <LawrenceG> cool that seemed to work
[04:06:52] <cradek> yay
[04:07:09] <cradek> in the next package, "man emc" will describe how configs work
[04:07:15] <LawrenceG> oops... not quite..... some edit missed on opening ../common/emc.nml
[04:07:38] <cradek> yeah unfortunately you have to dink with the files to remove the ../common stuff
[04:08:06] <LawrenceG> I had to use my own version of stepper_common because I have quad phase drive here not step/dir
[04:08:39] <LawrenceG> needed stepping type changed
[04:31:05] <LawrenceG> ok... everything seems to be running now... was missing stepper.tbl and stepper.var in my shoptask dir
[04:33:37] <LawrenceG> cradek: are you going to add the setfontx call to mini.tcl?
[04:34:06] <jmkasunich> I think cradek left
[04:34:33] <LawrenceG> I must have scared him away!
[04:35:31] <LawrenceG> I am quite amazed at how far emc2 has come.... super easy install and config and it still runs on a P200
[04:36:58] <LawrenceG> apt-get makes one quickly forget all that goes on behind the scenes
[04:49:39] <LawrenceG> * LawrenceG ... going down for kernel update
[06:46:11] <giacus> morning :)
[06:46:24] <jmkasunich> unfortunately
[06:50:12] <giacus> * giacus yawns
[06:50:31] <giacus> 07:50 here ..
[06:50:43] <giacus> waking up
[06:50:57] <jmkasunich> 1:50 am here, wish I was sleeping
[06:51:07] <giacus> hehe
[06:56:12] <fenn> jmkasunich: what's this about a mobile robot?
[06:56:23] <jmkasunich> just messin around
[06:56:41] <jmkasunich> we are building a remote controlled vehicle for an engineering week competition
[06:56:51] <jmkasunich> not computer controlled
[06:57:18] <jmkasunich> but I am going to reuse the chassis and drive train and hook a computer to it
[06:57:37] <jmkasunich> (already tested, put together with duct tape and baling wire)
[06:57:47] <fenn> sounds like a champ
[06:58:40] <jmkasunich> crawling around on the floor typing on a laptop that is mounted 2" from the floor, and in a way that you can't open the screen all the way, really sucks
[06:58:53] <jmkasunich> so I want to do wireless and ssh into the laptop
[06:59:09] <giacus> via cpu ?
[06:59:23] <jmkasunich> ?
[06:59:36] <giacus> which cpu ?
[07:00:03] <jmkasunich> vanilla Dell laptop, circa 2001 or so
[07:00:19] <jmkasunich> not sure exactly
[07:00:26] <giacus> should be not so small mainboard I suppose..
[07:00:54] <giacus> Ive seen something using via c3 cpu
[07:01:09] <jmkasunich> the vehicle we built for engineering week needed to carry a bowling ball, so a laptop is light by comparison
[07:01:12] <giacus> they're small enough
[07:42:47] <alex_joni> morning
[07:42:55] <jmkasunich> morning
[07:45:02] <giacus> morning alex_joni
[07:46:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[07:47:22] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich burns a ubuntu cd (again)
[07:47:24] <giacus> * giacus give to alex_joni a strong express coffe
[07:48:04] <giacus> 1 page yet to complete 'Introduzione to HAL' :P
[07:48:42] <jmkasunich> reading it?
[07:48:45] <giacus> alex_joni: I suppose the diagrams I've are unchanged
[07:48:56] <giacus> jmkasunich: tryng to translate it in italian
[07:49:02] <jmkasunich> ah
[07:49:13] <jmkasunich> thats a lot of translating
[07:49:14] <giacus> 2 days fighting with it :)
[07:49:24] <giacus> its an essential doc
[07:49:29] <jmkasunich> yes
[07:49:38] <giacus> I have to update it to the latest changes
[07:49:39] <jmkasunich> I need to update it, some parts are getting old
[07:50:07] <giacus> rayh gave me it some month ago
[07:50:16] <giacus> I think its the latest
[07:50:32] <giacus> but not so updated, of course..
[07:52:07] <jmkasunich> its been months since it was last revised
[07:52:15] <giacus> yeah
[07:52:38] <giacus> I'd like to publish it in Roboitalia community new wiki
[07:53:10] <giacus> but it should be as GFDL, i hope isnt an issue..
[07:53:20] <jmkasunich> no problem
[07:53:24] <giacus> thanks
[07:54:54] <jmkasunich> just make a link to the linuxcnc site, so people can get a newer one when it comes out
[07:55:05] <giacus> sure, I know
[07:55:32] <giacus> I will write an introduction to EMC and linuxcnc.org team too
[07:55:52] <giacus> many peoples don't know it exist there around
[07:56:05] <giacus> and they do not use Linux
[07:56:18] <giacus> I also need to introduce a live distro for that
[07:56:31] <giacus> puppy should be nice
[07:57:37] <giacus> The good thing is, they are already familiar with robotics in general
[08:01:44] <giacus> jmkasunich: http://www.roboitalia.com/index.php?option=com_copperminevis&lang=italian&Itemid=72
[08:01:56] <giacus> latest photos are the mine :)
[08:02:34] <jmkasunich> cool ;-)
[08:02:58] <giacus> they only missed to choose .com for the portal
[08:03:17] <giacus> started in 2002
[08:03:44] <giacus> gallery is work in progress..
[08:04:18] <giacus> we actually have 3,391 registered users
[08:04:24] <jmkasunich> !
[08:04:54] <giacus> ;P
[08:06:42] <giacus> and I got an admin role there.. let's see what happen
[08:08:42] <giacus> going to propose the idea and ask to start a new forum for Linux/Emc
[08:31:43] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: go to bed ;)
[08:31:57] <jmkasunich> I'm in the middle of an install
[08:32:05] <alex_joni> ok, then you can stay up :P
[08:32:08] <alex_joni> how's it going?
[08:32:11] <jmkasunich> (but soon I will)
[08:32:17] <jmkasunich> NEFS
[08:32:25] <jmkasunich> damned cdrom
[08:32:31] <jmkasunich> worked fine for the base install
[08:32:38] <jmkasunich> (ubuntu server)
[08:32:59] <jmkasunich> then I went to install xubuntu, which is something like 20M from the net and 200M from the CD
[08:33:08] <jmkasunich> the CD got 98% done and got errors
[08:33:24] <jmkasunich> retried, then burnt a new one, then burnt another new one using different options
[08:33:47] <jmkasunich> nothing worked, finally said fsck it and commented out cdrom in sources.list, let it get it all from the net
[08:33:56] <jmkasunich> getting it all from the net: 30 mins
[08:34:03] <jmkasunich> fscking around with cdroms: 90 mins
[08:34:37] <alex_joni> lol
[08:34:44] <giacus> :)
[08:34:48] <giacus> * giacus hate cdrom
[08:34:51] <alex_joni> well.. sorry I'm laughing.. that's frustrating I bet
[08:35:06] <jmkasunich> yeah, especially at 3:34 on a workday
[08:35:09] <alex_joni> I usually install debian with netinstall
[08:35:18] <giacus> from an usb pen
[08:35:19] <alex_joni> base system 100M, then everything from the net
[08:35:27] <alex_joni> works faster than CDROM over here ;)
[08:35:39] <jmkasunich> can you boot from the usb?
[08:35:42] <alex_joni> well, not at home
[08:35:45] <alex_joni> I never tried..
[08:35:47] <alex_joni> I might..
[08:35:54] <giacus> jmkasunich: i can, on my laptop
[08:35:58] <jmkasunich> so how do you get the base install?
[08:36:03] <alex_joni> cd
[08:36:13] <giacus> just choosing 'others' in boot bios options
[08:36:13] <alex_joni> but that's debian, not ubuntu I was talking about
[08:36:19] <alex_joni> my ubuntu install was CD
[08:36:25] <alex_joni> full ubuntu
[08:36:29] <jmkasunich> oh, I got mixed up, it was giacus that uses the pen
[08:36:42] <alex_joni> I use pens all the time..
[08:36:46] <alex_joni> even pencils too
[08:36:50] <giacus> haha
[08:37:00] <jmkasunich> I'm too tired to laugh
[08:37:05] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: chear up, it's only 3am ;)
[08:37:19] <giacus> Debian installer should support also floppy disc
[08:37:24] <alex_joni> remember tomorrow (today) morning it will be lots worse.. :/
[08:38:28] <jmkasunich> don't remind me
[08:38:40] <jmkasunich> this is the third night in a row I've been up to 2am or later
[08:39:05] <giacus> I got a CD's stock too, where burning them , they work ok for the first track but not for the latest
[08:39:23] <giacus> thats a common issueon cdrom :/
[08:39:40] <giacus> they read well at begin but not near the end..
[08:40:00] <giacus> dunno on what it depend
[08:45:52] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: ouch
[08:46:35] <jmkasunich> ?
[08:46:46] <jmkasunich> the late nights?
[08:48:18] <fenn> jmk you're my hero..
[08:48:33] <jmkasunich> why, because I'm stupid?
[08:48:35] <fenn> mild mannered electrical engineer by day, dastardly electrical engineer by night
[08:49:00] <giacus> superjmk :D
[08:49:15] <jmkasunich> sleepyjmk
[08:50:02] <fenn> * fenn <- dastardly geek by night, sleeps during day
[08:51:09] <giacus> right
[08:51:17] <giacus> like the horses :)
[08:52:08] <alex_joni> fenn: I like that approach too..
[08:52:24] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yes the late nights, they are fine for a while, but they'll bite you eventually :/
[08:52:28] <alex_joni> I KNOW ;)
[08:52:53] <alex_joni> a few weeks ago I ended up going to bed at 5-6-7am
[08:53:05] <alex_joni> it's all paying back since
[08:53:15] <fenn> just gotta go for it man, 24 hour switcheroo
[08:53:30] <fenn> any other way lies failure
[08:53:50] <fenn> i guess you could go polyphasic for a couple days..
[08:54:35] <alex_joni> yeah I know.. that's the only direction to cure it
[08:54:52] <alex_joni> but I lost a few days (nights?) like that in the last few years..
[08:55:05] <fenn> i think you actually gain a day, same diff
[08:55:26] <alex_joni> gain a day, lose a night ;)
[08:55:50] <fenn> home is where i lay me down to sleep, morning is when i wake up
[08:56:12] <jmkasunich> this is fscking rediculous... all I'm doing is waiting for the install
[08:56:26] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: go to bed, it'll eventually finish ;)
[08:56:26] <jmkasunich> it will be done in the morning
[08:56:28] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[08:56:35] <alex_joni> yup, probably sanest
[08:56:37] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_sleep
[08:56:42] <alex_joni> wish you a fast rest
[08:58:05] <giacus> Night jmk_sleep
[09:52:17] <chinamill> Hello; Where do I change the time to let the spindle come up to full speed in emc2?
[09:54:22] <fenn> you can add a G4 (dwell) after the spindle speed command, but that's kinda ugly
[09:56:07] <chinamill> I need zero time, I'm trying to set up a cnc plasma cutter
[09:57:09] <alex_joni> chinamill: can you use another M-code?
[09:57:16] <alex_joni> there is an motion synched output
[09:57:22] <alex_joni> actually a few of them
[09:57:46] <alex_joni> M62/M63 digital outputs synchronous to motion
[09:57:53] <alex_joni> chinamill: use M62 P01
[09:57:59] <chinamill> I guess
[09:58:04] <alex_joni> and on the beginning of the next move it will get turned on
[09:58:18] <alex_joni> it will stay on, until you provide an M63 P01
[09:58:31] <alex_joni> P01 means the first motion-synched output
[09:58:51] <alex_joni> and you can (using HAL) link the motion-synched output to a parport pin, or wherever you like
[09:59:01] <chinamill> I will have a look at it, but in emc1 there was a variabel to set the tme period to get the spindle up to speed, is it gone in emc2?
[09:59:07] <alex_joni> spindles stuff goes through the IO controller, and it's not RT
[09:59:11] <alex_joni> so it will be slower
[09:59:24] <alex_joni> there is not tme period, it should come up imediately
[09:59:44] <chinamill> It will probably be fast enough, (looking for a simple solution)
[09:59:48] <alex_joni> but for plasma I really recommend M62/M63
[10:00:11] <chinamill> ok, I 'll have a look at it
[10:00:30] <alex_joni> chinamill: just complain if it doesn't work as it should ;)
[10:00:32] <chinamill> thanks for the tip!
[10:00:40] <chinamill> :)
[10:00:45] <alex_joni> I'm to blame if it doesn't .. :P
[10:00:52] <fenn> alex_joni: is there any reason not to make all the i/o realtime?
[10:00:59] <fenn> like, what do we have user io for?
[10:01:00] <alex_joni> actually on both (iocontrol & M62, M63)
[10:01:08] <alex_joni> fenn: there is
[10:01:19] <alex_joni> but it's mostly coding-dependent
[10:01:37] <alex_joni> right now all the IO goes through NML to the IO controller, which has some internal state machine
[10:02:00] <alex_joni> that would need to be ripped out, and another RT module would need to replicate the functionality
[10:02:03] <alex_joni> LOTS of work
[10:02:47] <alex_joni> guess that is the only reason, so it might happen in the future, but not right now
[10:03:25] <alex_joni> probably task needs to be modified too, so pretty extensive changes
[10:03:42] <fenn> hmm..
[10:04:23] <alex_joni> the current way things are handled is not the best way, but it's kinda inherited from emc1
[10:33:33] <alex_joni> does anyone know how the bolts for bolting something in concrete are called?
[10:34:00] <alex_joni> you drill a hole, then put those bolts in, and when you fasten the screw they expand and get stuck
[10:34:04] <alex_joni> anchor bolts?
[10:37:19] <fenn> expanding anchor is what you're talking about i think
[10:37:42] <fenn> there's another kind called a "molly bolt"
[10:38:33] <fenn> i use tapcon for most things
[10:38:55] <alex_joni> ok, thanks
[10:55:54] <chinamill> Hmmm, I get instant following errors with emc2 (metric) and MAX_ACCELERATION way below STEPGEN_MAXACCEL ; anyone have a clue?
[10:57:24] <alex_joni> chinamill: what version?
[10:57:29] <alex_joni> look at emc2/VERSION
[10:58:44] <alex_joni> I suggest you get the latest TESTING from CVS (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Testing)
[11:00:08] <chinamill> it is the emc2_TESTING-2006-02-19_i386.deb
[11:10:12] <alex_joni> chinamill: instant means when you turn on?
[11:19:25] <chinamill> No, when starting g-code, but I think I have found my faulty settings (shit behind the stick)
[11:26:39] <chinamill> It is working better for me now, I rearrange the MAX_ACCELERATION etc (I had some abnormal values)
[11:29:14] <alex_joni> ok
[11:29:35] <alex_joni> was going to suggest to try stepper_mm (the supplied config), and see if that works
[11:31:46] <chinamill> I'm using that one (slighty modified), and it works better now
[11:32:33] <alex_joni> ok
[11:33:35] <chinamill> It looks great, I'm realy impressed with all the work in emc.
[11:47:34] <alex_joni> make that emc2 ;)
[11:57:45] <chinamill> :) It is when INPUT_SCALE is (somewhat abnormaly) high, in my case 1600, the ferrors apere. But with some fideling of the other values I got it working quite OK.
[11:58:24] <alex_joni> yes, well they are dependent
[11:58:34] <alex_joni> I am running 2000, so 1600 is ok ;)
[11:58:43] <chinamill> ok
[12:06:48] <fenn> only 7 am and i'm falling asleep.. what's wrong with me?
[12:41:52] <alex_joni> fenn: dunno :/
[12:41:56] <alex_joni> getting old?
[13:01:49] <fenn> stupid joomla sends your password right back to you in plaintext for no reason
[13:04:35] <alex_joni> just to you...
[13:05:59] <fenn> anyone could just sniff sniff sniff my password as it got to the mail server tho.. it's bad form
[13:06:48] <fenn> or from the site hosting joomla, whichever is a more tempting target
[13:07:03] <alex_joni> I already have it .. so it's not tempting ;)
[13:07:13] <fenn> eyaarg
[13:07:24] <alex_joni> I was kidding ;)
[13:07:38] <cradek> you should use throwaway passwords for web stuff - but for email use imapssl
[13:07:59] <fenn> i ssh into the mail server..
[13:08:09] <cradek> that works too
[13:08:09] <alex_joni> cradek: it's about the joomla registration
[13:08:19] <cradek> oh right
[13:08:20] <alex_joni> it sends you an email with the password you used
[13:08:26] <cradek> I got that stupid email too, I forgot
[13:08:36] <alex_joni> but as you said.. throwaway passwd
[13:08:54] <cradek> dear dumbass: in case you can't remember what you typed ten seconds ago, here it is
[13:09:43] <alex_joni> lol, yeah ;)
[13:10:00] <alex_joni> fenn: you might go and change it.. but I think you'll get another email :))
[13:18:02] <skunkworks> morning
[13:18:10] <alex_joni> morning samco
[13:18:38] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[13:18:44] <skunkworks> alex - cradek said you also have issues with shutting ubuntu down with emc2 running?
[13:20:53] <alex_joni> yes
[13:21:02] <alex_joni> it's graphics card related I think..
[13:21:10] <skunkworks> cradek - it is doing the same thing as the 1.5ghz machine was doing when emc would not start then I would try to shut down. screen goes to a wierd blocky graphic. Like you said it must be the rt not unloading.
[13:21:12] <alex_joni> but I just remembered to shut down emc2 first
[13:21:25] <skunkworks> ^acting like I know what I am talking about.
[13:21:28] <alex_joni> skunkworks: same thing happened to me too..
[13:21:40] <alex_joni> weird blocky text actually
[13:22:47] <skunkworks> yes - so this has happend on 2 differnt installes. - (I got the 450 running last night. ran the machine around)
[13:22:55] <skunkworks> worked great
[13:30:42] <skunkworks> bill2or2: - you around?
[13:30:56] <skunkworks> damn - have to get used to the tab thing
[13:31:04] <skunkworks> bill2or3: - are you around?
[13:32:10] <skunkworks> cradek - went to the ubuntu channel - boy that place is hopping.
[13:37:27] <alex_joni> skunkworks: usually 700+ people ;)
[13:38:39] <skunkworks> setting up the 450 - I didn't save the original ini as I know what the settings should be - went very smooth. I made the emc2 directory in my home and just put the stepper dir in there. I also put the ncfiles directory - took me a bit to figure out it would not automatially redirect to there - found the path setting in the ini file.
[13:38:44] <skunkworks> alex - wow
[13:39:18] <skunkworks> well I also had to put the common directory in the configs dir with the stepper dir.
[13:39:32] <skunkworks> if that makes sense.
[13:40:32] <skunkworks> I am running the default period of .00005 but I bet I could lower that a bit. axis/emc was running pretty smooth.
[13:46:26] <skunkworks> and yes - I just make sure I exit emc2 - no problem then ;)
[13:47:50] <alex_joni> skunkworks: that makes sense and it doesn't
[13:48:11] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you don't need to put the common/ dir there if you use the setupconfig screen to create a new configuration
[13:48:34] <cradek> skunkworks: I think setupconfig normalizes the configs (takes out the references to common)
[13:48:37] <alex_joni> basicly you should put the files to the same dir, and adapt the ini accordingly (e.g. replace ../common/emc.nml with emc.nml)
[13:48:43] <alex_joni> cradek: yes it does
[13:48:59] <cradek> I think we should do that in cvs.
[13:49:11] <alex_joni> cradek: and break run-in-place?
[13:49:27] <cradek> no, we should get rid of common altogether
[13:49:46] <skunkworks> when I had just emc2/configs/stepper - emc did not start. when I added the emc2/configs/common - then it did
[13:49:52] <skunkworks> in my home directory
[13:49:58] <cradek> skunkworks: we understand
[13:50:10] <cradek> skunkworks: in the ini, there are paths like ../common/file
[13:50:22] <skunkworks> ok
[13:50:26] <cradek> skunkworks: setupconfig replaces those with just "file" and copies the file into the config directory
[13:50:51] <alex_joni> cradek: we can do that, but that means replicating the same file over and over again..
[13:50:59] <alex_joni> guess that's no biggie..
[13:51:29] <cradek> alex_joni: yeah it's a little unfortunate, but we take on the responsibility instead of giving it to the users
[13:51:48] <cradek> maybe we should talk about it saturday.
[13:52:07] <cradek> I feel pretty strongly that a user should be able to copy a config out of sample-configs and have it work.
[13:52:31] <cradek> maybe there's another solution that gives both goals, but I just haven't thought of it yet
[13:55:21] <alex_joni> same here
[13:55:27] <alex_joni> we'll ponder till saturday
[13:55:40] <alex_joni> maybe we need to put a wiki page with disussion topics
[13:55:48] <skunkworks> wait - the setup config screen works now?
[13:55:55] <alex_joni> it should
[13:55:58] <skunkworks> cool -
[13:56:09] <cradek> it may not work on installed systems?
[13:56:17] <cradek> I don't think it knows about the paths yet
[13:56:25] <alex_joni> probably.. dunno
[13:56:25] <cradek> I haven't looked at it, only heard what jmk has said
[13:56:46] <skunkworks> it has probably been a week or 2 sence I have tried it. last time I did it said somthing like "under development"
[13:56:48] <alex_joni> same here
[13:57:32] <skunkworks> more stuff to play with
[13:57:40] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:20:05] <alpha1125> alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[14:39:05] <skunkworks> bill2or3: ?
[14:40:47] <alex_joni> or4?
[14:41:55] <skunkworks> or4 left last night.
[14:42:03] <skunkworks> sometime ;)
[14:54:18] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, is there a way to make a linux liveCD read off a USB key for startup settings?
[14:54:45] <A-L-P-H-A> like pop in a CD + USB key, have the system automagically mount/read/run a script on the USB key?
[14:58:20] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: that depends on the live cd, but most of them support something like that. the unbutu live cd is said to support it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPersistence
[15:01:32] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, thanks!
[15:29:49] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: you could also look at puppy, that can run off the USB afaik
[15:30:32] <alex_joni> with emc2 on it..
[15:41:04] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, looking to use another distro... just wondering if it was possible.
[15:42:12] <alex_joni> it certainly is
[15:42:43] <alex_joni> I know puppy works that way, when you boot it looks for USB sticks and FAT32 drives it can put data on
[15:42:56] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[15:43:20] <A-L-P-H-A> the distro I'm tinkering with now is called "backtrack" it's an interesting computer 'forensics' liveCD
[15:43:33] <A-L-P-H-A> And... I am in a computer forensics class. :) so oh well.
[16:33:28] <bill2or3> Hi.
[16:34:36] <skunkworks> Hi bill
[16:35:17] <skunkworks> here are some pretty crappy pictures of the spindle (large also - did not scale them)
[16:35:24] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/spindle/
[16:35:29] <skunkworks> sorry about that
[16:35:36] <skunkworks> probably start from the bottom
[16:36:34] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 looks
[16:36:58] <skunkworks> we used something similar to this http://cgi.ebay.com/180DA-Collet-Chuck-Extension_W0QQitemZ3831000184QQcategoryZ57026QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[16:39:44] <bill2or3> for the inner shaft?
[16:40:02] <skunkworks> right
[16:40:03] <bill2or3> is that outer part a solid bar that you bored out, or a piece of pipe/tube?
[16:40:47] <skunkworks> if I remember right - it was some sort of mechanical tubing pressed into the "flange"
[16:40:49] <bill2or3> so you didn't have to deal with making the inside taper at all, right?
[16:41:16] <bill2or3> and there's some sort of shaft coupler attaching the collet-holder to the shaft?
[16:41:26] <skunkworks> for the collet? - no - we used the whole collet extention (like the ebay auction)
[16:41:58] <skunkworks> this was made for high speed - we slotted the motor shaft and used a roll pin in the collet extender.
[16:42:17] <skunkworks> and grease ;)
[16:43:46] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 googles 'roll pin'
[16:44:40] <bill2or3> I see.
[16:44:55] <bill2or3> have you measured the runout?
[16:47:38] <skunkworks> we did back then - we used it the most with a 1/8 carbide cutter cutting clutch plates out for a crawler. around .06 thick
[16:48:02] <bill2or3> what's a crawler?
[16:48:11] <skunkworks> probably a foot in diameter - inside had splines that where cut also with the 1/8 mill
[16:48:21] <skunkworks> catapiller?
[16:48:25] <bill2or3> ah.
[16:48:31] <skunkworks> tracked tractor
[16:48:40] <bill2or3> gotcha.
[16:49:21] <bill2or3> I'm trying to decide between a collet setup with a tighening collar like that one, or something with a drawbar.
[16:49:53] <bill2or3> which would determine whether I use a direct-drive, or a belt+pulley setup.
[16:50:04] <skunkworks> like a c5 (that is draw though isn;t it)
[16:50:15] <bill2or3> I dont know what a c5 is.
[16:50:29] <bill2or3> but I'm leaning torwards doing a drawbar setup.
[16:50:42] <bill2or3> since I have a set of MT2 collets
[16:50:57] <bill2or3> and I can get reamers that will ream a MT2 on the inside.
[16:51:20] <skunkworks> cool.
[16:51:37] <bill2or3> I figure If I make the whole thing, and then use it to ream it's own self, I should get a pretty 'true' taper.
[16:51:53] <bill2or3> but who knows, I'm just making this up as I go. :-)
[16:52:42] <skunkworks> that is what we do.
[16:52:44] <skunkworks> ;)
[16:53:01] <bill2or3> I made a delrin roller last night, with skateboard bearings. I think it'll be firm enough for something like the 'leading 2'
[16:53:06] <bill2or3> setup from here: http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/body_self_made_parts.html
[16:53:22] <bill2or3> initially I was thinking I'd have to use steel, but the delrin is pretty solid.
[16:54:24] <skunkworks> c5 http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=230-4161&PMPXNO=943564
[16:54:30] <skunkworks> 5c
[16:54:49] <bill2or3> those are cheap
[16:55:20] <bill2or3> you use that with a drawbar?
[16:55:31] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 wonders what the outside threads are for.
[18:06:09] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: make make clean cleaner
[18:13:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: make make clean cleaner
[18:15:40] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:15:55] <skunkworks> you have been wanting to say that.
[18:18:53] <bill2or3> no 'make cleanest' ?
[18:19:04] <Jymmm> Is there any 'rule of thumb' when giving tolerances?
[18:19:33] <skunkworks> bill - if I remember right there is threads on the inside also. - yes used with a draw bar.
[18:19:43] <bill2or3> thanks skunkworks.
[18:22:30] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: make clean doesn't need to generate depends
[21:21:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni goto bed
[21:21:19] <alex_joni_> who me?
[21:21:30] <alex_joni> why should I?
[21:21:30] <Jymmm> yes, you.
[21:21:37] <Jymmm> casue it's your bedtime!
[21:21:43] <alex_joni> nope, you're wrong
[21:22:01] <Jymmm> lol
[21:22:03] <alex_joni> night ;)
[21:32:23] <jepler> does "standard" pinout mean "sherline"?
[21:33:25] <skunkworks> I always thought standard pinout means emc1 pinout. other than that I don't know
[21:33:49] <jepler> I strongly suspect it matches sherline
[21:34:04] <skunkworks> jepler - no turds http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/axisubuntu.png
[21:34:05] <alex_joni> both
[21:34:43] <skunkworks> yes - i had run emc1 and emc2 with out changing the pinouts. and emc1 was the bdi - for the serline.
[21:34:58] <jepler> I'm just wondering what the clearest way to name the pinout is, for this little toy: http://axis.unpy.net:8080/
[21:35:27] <alex_joni> jepler: doesn't work in opera :(
[21:35:36] <skunkworks> doesn't work with ie
[21:35:45] <jepler> you think I care about either of those browsers? :-P
[21:35:50] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:36:30] <jepler> I mean, I'm grateful for the report, but I don't plan to fix the bug right away
[21:37:17] <jepler> skunkworks: thanks for the screenshot. are you getting the hang of the O-codes? I remain uninterested in learning them...
[21:43:09] <skunkworks> I am winging it most of the time. I would love to see where lerman got the standards for the language.
[21:43:27] <skunkworks> have not found a good source.
[21:43:39] <alex_joni> there is no standard
[21:43:40] <skunkworks> pretty much going by the samples he had for testing
[21:43:50] <alex_joni> it's his twisted mind that did this..
[21:43:56] <skunkworks> which leave a lot to be desired.
[21:44:55] <skunkworks> that program was actually something I had wrote in turbocnc - then modified it slightly so it would work in emc2 when I got lermans interp working
[21:45:59] <skunkworks> i lermans interp installed before it was part of the main branch.
[21:47:16] <skunkworks> ^boy that didn't make much sense - but I am sure you guys are used to that by now.
[21:47:47] <alex_joni> skunkworks: we read IRC just fine ;)
[21:48:03] <skunkworks> I mean when I got lermans interp installed before it was part of the main branch.
[21:48:32] <alex_joni> as I said.. we parse these without any problem
[21:50:32] <rayh> * rayh wonders if skunkworks is putting his o examples in the wiki page we made for him?
[21:50:55] <alex_joni> sure he is
[21:51:05] <alex_joni> right sam?
[21:51:06] <skunkworks> we have a wiki page for that?
[21:51:13] <alex_joni> just for you
[21:51:24] <rayh> Yup. Let me get the reference for it.
[21:51:24] <skunkworks> that was awfully nice of yous
[21:53:48] <rayh> http://emc.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Oword
[21:55:55] <skunkworks> didn't jepler have some examples also?
[21:56:03] <skunkworks> somewhere on wiki?
[21:56:53] <rayh> If you find em we could consolidate.
[21:57:22] <jepler> I wrote some e-mail to the list once, that's all I remember doing
[21:58:07] <skunkworks> hm - have to look back a few day - maybe it wasn't you. someone had posted some exaples for gene I thought when he was haveing sub problems.
[21:58:41] <alex_joni> probably it was lerman ;)
[22:04:16] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?SubroutineSample
[22:05:10] <skunkworks> that is why I thought jepler - the top says - Code originally by jepler, converted to gcode by KennethLerman (lerman),
[22:05:11] <skunkworks> fixed by jepler.
[22:07:34] <alex_joni> yeah, that was pseudo-code by jepler
[22:07:42] <alex_joni> for an ellipse
[22:11:27] <jepler> The ellipse code I wrote was python, not pseudo-code
[22:12:25] <alex_joni> ok, kinda the same from my perspective ;)
[22:19:37] <skunkworks> ok - how do I edit it? can I even?
[22:21:54] <jepler> edit what -- the wiki? yes, but you have to follow the BasicSteps
[22:22:01] <skunkworks> getting there.
[22:22:06] <skunkworks> Think I can figure it out.
[22:22:18] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[22:22:31] <skunkworks> yep - found that - thanks
[22:25:36] <jepler> http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2006/02/vacuum_tube_age_technical_book.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890
[22:26:39] <jepler> neat stuff here for the old-tech lover
[22:28:59] <skunkworks> bbl
[22:42:02] <jepler> startkeylogger
[22:42:07] <jepler> darn, it doesn't work.
[22:42:12] <jepler> (http://www.hm2k.org/news/1137968795.html)
[22:43:50] <cradek> And if you type "format c:", the next time norton does a system scan, it detects the mirc logs as infected files and deletes them!!
[22:44:10] <cradek> stopkeylogger works too
[22:44:14] <alex_joni> jepler: you can use '/quit username' and it will kill them
[22:44:24] <cradek> /quit alex_joni
[22:44:29] <alex_joni> :P
[22:44:36] <cradek> it didn't work
[22:45:14] <giacus> is there some case where is useful to write a complex gcode file by hand ?
[22:45:38] <cradek> giacus: all you know is gcode and you want to make a complex part?
[22:45:50] <giacus> yeah
[22:46:11] <alex_joni> cradek: you want to make a complex part, and you don't have anything available?
[22:46:12] <giacus> wrong ?
[22:48:01] <giacus> it make not much sense eh ?
[22:48:53] <giacus> a student is asking me for that ..
[22:49:11] <giacus> I always used cam estensions for that
[22:53:30] <giacus> I just know G0, G20-1, and M6 :P
[22:57:38] <jepler> perhaps if I can get funding I'll begin work on LOGO for emc
[22:58:41] <jepler> to square down 10 repeat 4 [ right 90 forward 10 ] up 10 end
[22:59:42] <giacus> jepler: i'd like something like a breadboard for the logo
[23:00:29] <giacus> some square waveform around :P
[23:01:21] <jepler> giacus: I was saying (joking) that I wanted to make an interpreter for the LOGO language for emc, then I gave the example program 'to square ... end' in LOGO language
[23:01:33] <jepler> giacus: not that I wanted to create a new logo (picture) for emc
[23:01:43] <giacus> oh.. sorry
[23:01:50] <jepler> http://logo-programming-language.brainsip.com/
[23:02:44] <giacus> very interesting
[23:03:39] <jepler> in the 80s it was a language used in a lot of US schools to teach computer programming, for kids up to the teenage years
[23:05:31] <giacus> looks nice, simple to understand, neat
[23:09:03] <giacus> I'd like to spend some bit of time more on Ruby
[23:09:37] <giacus> I have to search for the damn servos in these days, for my next cnc :/
[23:09:52] <giacus> cant find anything of good here around
[23:10:21] <giacus> too much inertia
[23:11:27] <bill2or3> TURTLE
[23:12:16] <giacus> North Dakota ?
[23:13:47] <giacus> danaher are nice, but far away from here too
[23:14:49] <giacus> I have to ask in torino
[23:16:11] <alex_joni> * alex_joni searches for rest..
[23:16:25] <alex_joni> night all
[23:16:34] <giacus> night alex_joni
[23:22:25] <giacus> see you tomorrow
[23:22:28] <giacus> night all
[23:27:02] <dmessier> hello all
[23:27:46] <dmessier> i wouldnt be laying an order for your global express right now...
[23:28:29] <alex_joni> dmessier: how come?
[23:28:53] <dmessier> all be it a "Hanger Queen"... she tilts one way over time... ; (
[23:29:28] <dmessier> shock strut issues.... BIG uns
[23:29:41] <alex_joni> I'm not following
[23:30:30] <dmessier> i make the landing gear for the Global Express Aircraft... and there are desighn issues...
[23:31:11] <alex_joni> oh.. ok
[23:31:12] <dmessier> My perfect parts fail the test of time for some reason... i suspect bad chrome
[23:31:38] <alex_joni> dmessier: :(
[23:32:08] <dmessier> thin dense chrome to be precise... but i believe ive been getting flash hard chrome
[23:32:25] <dmessier> cant prove it
[23:32:34] <alex_joni> spectrometer?
[23:32:49] <dmessier> shocks leak nitrogen
[23:33:09] <alex_joni> ouch
[23:34:01] <dmessier> how so with a spect...??? same base metal... only one is porous and one is "denser" = "less porous"
[23:34:17] <alex_joni> resistive?
[23:34:51] <alex_joni> hmm.. you could do those density tests (can't recall how they are called)
[23:35:00] <dmessier> hmm...non magnetic.. if that helps
[23:35:09] <alex_joni> you bang the metal with a certain sharp thing, with a certain force
[23:35:20] <dmessier> .0005-.0008" thk
[23:35:21] <alex_joni> and measure the diameter of the holes
[23:35:36] <alex_joni> ok, that won't work..
[23:35:57] <alex_joni> I'll go dream about it.. g'night ;)
[23:35:58] <dmessier> must be non destructive test
[23:36:17] <alex_joni> only microscope sprigs into mind
[23:36:21] <dmessier> thats all it takes my friend a DREAM... and a nap
[23:36:23] <alex_joni> but not sure how conclusive that is
[23:36:36] <alex_joni> from 2 am till morning it's a nap allright
[23:36:56] <dmessier> been there done that..
[23:37:18] <alex_joni> yup.. we all have..
[23:37:21] <alex_joni> night
[23:37:53] <dmessier> bon nuit
[23:37:58] <dmessier> bonne