#emc | Logs for 2006-02-21

[00:30:15] <les_w> evening!
[00:30:52] <jmkasunich> hi les
[00:30:55] <jmkasunich> long time no ehar
[00:30:57] <jmkasunich> hear
[00:31:02] <les_w> hi john
[00:32:27] <les_w> I have been fairly busy with latest invention
[00:34:13] <les_w> Getting back to timetables and pressure and stuff
[00:34:19] <jmkasunich> such fun
[00:34:38] <les_w> it's more fun when you own the company!
[00:35:22] <les_w> I really should have resigned from the corporate world to start my own company much earlier.
[00:35:32] <les_w> the time I wasted...
[00:36:02] <les_w> well, maybe I was gaining needed experience
[00:36:08] <les_w> heh
[00:36:32] <jmkasunich> and connections... aren't your former employers among your best customers
[00:36:43] <les_w> yeah
[00:38:34] <les_w> May have a plant to build...lots of hi tech automation for sure!!!
[00:39:07] <les_w> May have to live somewhwere else on the weekdays.
[00:39:20] <les_w> No skilled labor here.
[00:39:48] <jmkasunich> hence the automation, no?
[00:40:06] <les_w> right
[00:40:45] <les_w> like other facilities I have done, I consider a manufacturing operation as a big closed loop servo.
[00:41:38] <les_w> Engineering and sales are in the servo loop too.
[00:42:14] <les_w> A little more complicated than PID though!
[00:42:29] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:42:34] <jmkasunich> very nonlinear
[00:42:47] <les_w> Lots of non-linear feedforward
[00:42:58] <jmkasunich> and feedback, and even feedsideways
[00:44:07] <les_w> yeah. I set up the mirror heater that way. Manufacturing data gets to even modify design parameters
[00:44:09] <les_w> some
[00:44:12] <les_w> not too much
[00:44:43] <Jymmm> kaos around here this afternoon
[00:44:56] <les_w> how come?
[00:45:33] <jmkasunich> jymm: what kind of chaos?
[00:45:41] <jmkasunich> pretty quiet (ie dead) right now\
[00:47:17] <Jymmm> neighboring apt complex has/had squaters and the new owner screw the door shut and the lock was destroyed. The owner here died last week and one asshole tennant is bitching about sueing the the owners daughter about mold and having headaches, yet is doing bodywork in the enclosed garage, etc that kinda crap
[00:47:41] <jmkasunich> oh, "here" as in the real world ;-)
[00:47:47] <les_w> ha
[00:47:51] <Jymmm> Yeah, real world stuff.
[00:48:01] <Jymmm> cops showing up and everything
[00:48:27] <Jymmm> * Jymmm having to dumpster dive empty automotive spray cans for proof
[00:48:33] <les_w> Pretty boring here today....
[00:48:51] <les_w> opened the door to the office and rooster walked in....
[00:49:22] <les_w> gave my feet a good flogging with his spurs because I didn't feed him enough....
[00:49:35] <Jymmm> Hey Les... why did the rooster cross the threshold?
[00:49:51] <les_w> to get to the other side
[00:50:19] <les_w> that animal is crazy...jumps up on the cnc and stuff
[00:50:43] <Jymmm> hows the chicken?
[00:51:14] <les_w> I remember in chicago at one place there was a cat that lived in (on) an old bridgeport
[00:51:18] <Jymmm> I remember you said she was sick.
[00:51:31] <les_w> oh...fine.
[00:51:41] <les_w> Got a rooster for her.
[00:51:54] <les_w> perked her right up...
[00:51:56] <Jymmm> ah cool.... does she still follow the dog?
[00:52:14] <les_w> yeah...congo...he's a cat
[00:52:22] <les_w> the rooster does too
[00:52:26] <Jymmm> lol
[00:52:58] <les_w> The hen would not come in the shop though
[00:53:06] <les_w> the rooster does
[00:53:13] <les_w> jumps up on stuff
[00:53:58] <Jymmm> you should have the cnc on RC
[00:54:05] <les_w> I had a minor bad day there today
[00:54:43] <les_w> cracked $100 worth of thin PZT ceramic while trying to glue them
[00:54:53] <jmkasunich> oops
[00:55:04] <les_w> too much clamp force
[00:55:29] <les_w> I have to glue them up with conductive epoxy
[00:55:36] <les_w> then 250f 4 hrs
[00:55:42] <les_w> then 350f 3 hrs
[00:56:26] <les_w> I tighted the clamp a little too much then <ping>
[00:56:28] <Jymmm> why does ceramic need to be tempered?
[00:56:31] <les_w> shattered
[00:56:43] <les_w> It's the epoxy
[00:56:52] <les_w> very high glass transition
[00:57:00] <les_w> very high Q
[00:57:41] <Jymmm> Q ?
[00:58:14] <jmkasunich> Q = the difference between clannnnnng and clunk
[00:58:56] <les_w> haha yeah
[00:59:12] <les_w> this PZT has a Q of 1000
[00:59:33] <les_w> I don't want to damp it with gooey absorbing epoxy
[01:00:29] <les_w> Q is basically the ratio of total energy to energy lost per cycle
[01:01:04] <les_w> So if a bell has high Q, it will ring for a long time
[01:01:17] <les_w> also related to servos
[01:01:33] <les_w> we usually go for a Q of 0.9
[01:01:35] <Jymmm> so a cardboard box has a low Q
[01:01:44] <les_w> slight overshoot but fastest
[01:01:49] <les_w> right
[01:01:55] <Jymmm> but a tuning fork has a high Q
[01:01:59] <les_w> yes
[01:02:04] <les_w> very high
[01:02:10] <les_w> like 10,000
[01:02:30] <Jymmm> so a high Q is the ability of a material to reflect energy?
[01:02:56] <les_w> critical damping (where there is no overshoot) is a Q of sqrt(2)
[01:03:09] <les_w> .oops /2
[01:03:12] <les_w> 0.707
[01:03:18] <Jymmm> 1.414
[01:03:25] <les_w> half that
[01:03:35] <Jymmm> th
[01:04:41] <les_w> Q is used a lot in electronics, but also in things like machine structural design
[01:04:49] <les_w> and acoustics
[01:05:16] <les_w> car suspensions....
[01:05:21] <Jymmm> I think Q, I think transistor
[01:05:58] <les_w> It's just how well something rings really
[01:06:27] <LawrenceG> hig guys.... lots of ding dongs on here by the sound of it :}
[01:06:44] <les_w> hI lawrence
[01:07:11] <LawrenceG> les_w: sounds like you are having fun with the ceramics
[01:07:31] <les_w> just lamenting destroying $100 or so of hard PZT trying to learn how to bond bimorphs
[01:08:00] <les_w> .01x0.5" discs
[01:08:09] <LawrenceG> I'm trying to get a 24 bit a/d to behave.... results read from it are very erratic.. more data sheet reading necessary
[01:08:51] <les_w> Well a lot of 24 bit stuff really flirts with johnson noise limitations
[01:09:09] <LawrenceG> I have an exe under windows that talks to the hardware, so I know that works.... trying to recreate the driver under linux
[01:09:48] <les_w> how many ppm is 24 bit? < grabs calculator>
[01:09:56] <LawrenceG> yea... down in the nano volts resolution, but the bottom 5 or 6 bits are just noise in this circuit
[01:10:03] <jepler> les_w: about 1/16 ppm
[01:10:13] <jepler> .06 ppm?
[01:10:16] <les_w> ha
[01:10:26] <les_w> my calculator overflowed
[01:11:03] <LawrenceG> yea... my hex skills decrease above 16 bits.... unexplored territory
[01:11:17] <LawrenceG> too many digits to remember
[01:11:18] <les_w> well for tronics you would have to have a very low source impedance/low temperature
[01:12:29] <les_w> I kind of laugh at the 24 bit digital audio formats
[01:12:35] <LawrenceG> yea... other versions of this circuit use a log amp to get about 60db of dynamic range.... this one is supposed to be good for over 100db dynamic range
[01:13:01] <LawrenceG> conversion time at that resolution is about 143ms/sample
[01:13:27] <les_w> I tried to get a lot of headroom in my latest crossover design in the music room
[01:13:37] <les_w> last analog one I will do I guess
[01:13:52] <les_w> burr brown op amps in parallel
[01:14:09] <les_w> run off of =?- 20v
[01:14:14] <les_w> oops
[01:14:32] <les_w> +/-
[01:15:03] <LawrenceG> the rf side of this project was easy... the DDS chips worked as soon as I wrote to them... 0 to 60 mhz with 0.04hz steps
[01:15:14] <les_w> wow
[01:15:27] <les_w> that reminds me
[01:15:38] <les_w> I need an impedance analyzer
[01:15:39] <les_w> bad
[01:16:07] <LawrenceG> I am using linux to prove the driver in C then porting to a dspic in C
[01:16:36] <LawrenceG> what is your top freq?
[01:17:07] <les_w> I just need mag and phase or real and imaginary to about 100 KHz
[01:17:17] <les_w> ultrasonic work of course
[01:18:08] <LawrenceG> This is a vector network analyzer I am working on.... it could probably be modded to cover that range.... right now it only goes down to 50khz or so because of the rf transformers being used.
[01:18:29] <les_w> sound card stuff won't cut it...
[01:18:42] <les_w> I am going to have to buy something though
[01:18:43] <LawrenceG> but generator and detector work to DC
[01:18:48] <les_w> hmm
[01:19:27] <LawrenceG> http://users.adelphia.net/~n2pk/VNA/VNAarch.html
[01:19:54] <les_w> Ha I won't need it till I learn how to glue these thing together without cracking em though
[01:19:59] <les_w> looking
[01:20:00] <LawrenceG> can be used for through or refelection type measurements
[01:21:05] <LawrenceG> the 2 links to the full article are:
[01:21:16] <LawrenceG> http://vna.k4fau.org/n2pk_vna_pt_1_ver_c.pdf
[01:21:23] <LawrenceG> http://vna.k4fau.org/n2pk_vna_pt_2_ver_b2.pdf
[01:23:20] <les_w> I use impedance measurements a good bit with acoustics....but in this case the radiation is highly non linear at over 10^5 pascal peak pressure
[01:23:37] <les_w> so subharmonics are possible
[01:24:08] <les_w> Had a sub harmonic leak through my hearing protector
[01:24:11] <les_w> it hurt
[01:24:23] <les_w> this sound will light fires
[01:24:30] <LawrenceG> rattled the old eyeballs
[01:24:39] <les_w> yeah
[01:25:02] <LawrenceG> so far no fires with this project :}
[01:25:19] <les_w> I have burned my fingers.
[01:26:40] <les_w> I am not supposed to say much...
[01:26:49] <les_w> but you get the idea...
[01:26:56] <les_w> piezo...
[01:27:04] <les_w> sond that burns...
[01:27:07] <les_w> sound
[01:27:41] <les_w> cheap piece of plastic
[01:27:57] <les_w> generate electricity from air.
[01:28:02] <les_w> no moving parts.
[01:28:33] <les_w> well not much haha
[01:30:04] <LawrenceG> well.. got to go stick my head back on the bench and figure out why I cant read the a/d reliably... must be some timing param I am violating
[01:30:07] <les_w> compressed air that is
[01:30:20] <les_w> ok
[01:30:35] <les_w> I will bake conductive epoxy over night
[01:33:16] <les_w> and hope the adhesive doesn't oze out and glue the PZT to the clamp fixture
[01:33:58] <les_w> I am going for a 10 micron glue line.
[01:35:01] <les_w> the glue is $50/oz by the way!
[01:35:32] <les_w> it's a silver filled novolac epoxy/phenolic thermoset
[01:35:53] <les_w> continuous service temp is:
[01:35:58] <les_w> 650F
[01:39:43] <les_w> But now i will go to the music room and listen to my many paralleled burr brown op604 op amps with about 135 db dynamic range.
[01:40:24] <les_w> noise floor to clipping.
[01:40:49] <les_w> 22 bits?
[01:43:23] <les_w> I need some liquid nitrogen.
[02:09:51] <robin_z> meep?
[02:10:15] <robin_z> * robin_z goes off to bed
[02:12:07] <alpha1125> alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[02:12:28] <Jymmm> gnight robin
[02:13:39] <skunkworks> jmk - you said you had emc running a pwm signal to an h-bridge. could you elaborate on that? Where you using 2 outputs? one for the pwm signal and one for direction?
[02:16:35] <skunkworks> encoder feedback?
[02:20:37] <jmkasunich> one output for each side of the bridge
[02:20:51] <jmkasunich> IR2110 drivers, one for each side (drives hi and lo fets)
[02:21:15] <jmkasunich> one parport pin per side, direct to the high side of the 2110, inverted to the low side of the 2110
[02:21:25] <jmkasunich> (one fet or the other is always on)
[02:21:30] <skunkworks> so you ran 2 pwm signals - one for forward and one for reverse?
[02:21:39] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:21:42] <skunkworks> neet
[02:21:59] <jmkasunich> freqgen module, stepping type 1, generates UP and DOWN outputs
[02:22:23] <jmkasunich> for each 50uS (or whatever the thread period is), either UP is on, DOWN is on, or both are off
[02:22:39] <jmkasunich> based on the sign and magnitude of the input to the module
[02:22:55] <jmkasunich> at max positive input, UP is on all the time
[02:23:07] <jmkasunich> at 50%, UP is on every other 50uS period
[02:23:08] <jmkasunich> etc
[02:23:10] <cradek> sounds like the cheapest servo drive ever
[02:23:25] <jmkasunich> yeah, encoders come in the parport, pwm goes out
[02:23:26] <skunkworks> that is very interesting
[02:23:32] <skunkworks> wow
[02:23:33] <jmkasunich> one parport has enough for two axis
[02:24:13] <cradek> what's the encoder input look like? just the raw quadrature?
[02:24:15] <jmkasunich> limited speed when counting encoder pulses in software
[02:24:17] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:24:43] <jmkasunich> with a 50uS period (20KHz interrupts) I can reliably count 10KHz
[02:25:00] <jmkasunich> these motors have low res encoders (16 slot, 64 counts/rev)
[02:25:25] <cradek> it would be neat if you could make that hal config and a simple schematic available
[02:25:33] <jmkasunich> so I can do 7000 RPM, which is their speed on 12V
[02:25:39] <jepler> I should do that .. I got some (small!) servos for my etch-a-sketch
[02:25:39] <jepler> One L298 under parport control sounds like a nice setup
[02:25:39] <jepler> I think the encoder would be well under 5k counts / second
[02:25:45] <jmkasunich> I can do that
[02:25:58] <jmkasunich> give me a couple days for the drawings
[02:26:11] <skunkworks> that would be great
[02:26:11] <jepler> Is the problem with going beyond 2 axes the number of inputs?
[02:26:17] <jmkasunich> I was actually thinking about making an examples dir either in the src/hal tree, or under docs
[02:26:21] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:26:36] <jepler> cradek: you gotten eagle to run under ubuntu yet?
[02:26:42] <cradek> jepler: I haven't tried
[02:26:47] <cradek> jepler: nor qemu/autocad
[02:26:52] <jmkasunich> I could switch the parport data port to in, but then I run out of outputs
[02:26:57] <jmkasunich> need 2 ins and 2 outs per axis
[02:27:29] <cradek> too bad there's not another input.
[02:27:48] <cradek> too bad our computers only have a cheesy parport for DIO
[02:28:32] <jmkasunich> use an 8255 board, run 16 axis
[02:28:32] <jepler> I know L298 is different from your setup, but this datasheet says that equal outputs are a braking mode, not a coasting mode.
[02:28:55] <cradek> jmkasunich: no isa slots to be found...
[02:29:16] <jepler> cradek: there's a sub-$100 8255 PCI card
[02:29:33] <jmkasunich> jepler: over a long time that is true
[02:29:33] <cradek> cool
[02:29:35] <jepler> someone on the channel mentioned it a few weeks ago
[02:29:44] <jepler> http://www.futurlec.com/PCI8255.shtml
[02:29:51] <jepler> 72 I/Os on one PCI card
[02:29:59] <jmkasunich> (long enough that Vcemf/Larmature lets the current go to zero and reverse)
[02:30:37] <skunkworks> nice work
[02:30:40] <jepler> jmkasunich: -ENOEE
[02:30:57] <jepler> (no E.E. degree found)
[02:30:59] <jmkasunich> but with high freq PWM, driving both sides of the H either high or low at all times simply means Varm = +, 0, or - at all times, and therefore means you have direct control over the average voltage
[02:31:33] <jmkasunich> in simple terms, they are right, turning all four fets off lets the motor coast
[02:31:47] <jmkasunich> but I don't want it to coast, I want a loop closed around it at all times
[02:32:01] <jmkasunich> (besides, I'm too cheap to run four pwm signals)
[02:32:27] <Jymmm> jmkasunich cheap? Mr Dumpster Diver himself? Nah.............
[02:32:29] <jepler> you only need 3 signals, and 1 pwm, with some external logic... but yeah I get your point
[02:32:45] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich wants to build a 6 legged robot some day, with 3 dof in each leg
[02:32:47] <jmkasunich> 18 axis
[02:32:47] <jepler> next question .. were you too cheap to use optoisolators too?
[02:33:00] <jmkasunich> gimme one of those PCI cards and another tape library
[02:33:04] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:33:09] <Jymmm> lol
[02:33:10] <skunkworks> opto isolators are overrated
[02:33:24] <Jymmm> jepler: If jmkasunich can't dumpsterdive for it, it's not in there.
[02:33:47] <jmkasunich> in this case, the main power source is a 12V battery, and the computer is a laptop, so both ends are isolated from ground
[02:34:02] <jmkasunich> (although backfeeding 12V into the parport would be bad)
[02:34:06] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is STILL waiting for jmkasunich to dumpster dive a 36" LCD display
[02:34:07] <skunkworks> it isn't like you can look at cmos chips wrong and destroy them like 15 years ago
[02:34:21] <skunkworks> 20 years?
[02:34:44] <jmkasunich> Jymm: I found two 18" LCDs, does that count?
[02:35:00] <Jymmm> jmkasunich if they work, ship em to me! I'll take both.
[02:35:06] <jmkasunich> of course, they both have something wrong with them
[02:35:12] <Jymmm> D'Oh
[02:35:26] <Jymmm> well maybe can make one work between the two of them
[02:35:33] <jmkasunich> that was my thought
[02:35:39] <jmkasunich> so many projects so little time
[02:35:51] <jmkasunich> I've been pestering cradek trying to get another dumpster find to work
[02:35:57] <jmkasunich> some wireless stuff
[02:36:17] <jmkasunich> I wish I would have grabbed the yagi antennas they threw away at the same time
[02:36:26] <jmkasunich> maybe we could get Ray on the internet
[02:36:54] <Jymmm> lol
[02:37:17] <cradek> you mean Ray could get a cryptic error message in his syslog like you are?
[02:37:18] <jmkasunich> (the company threw away about a dozen wavelan wireless nics - two had external antenna connectors for a long range link, the rest have internal antennas)
[02:37:19] <skunkworks> I ran direcway for about 2 years. 2 way sat
[02:37:51] <jmkasunich> cradek: sure, why not? everybody needs cryptic messages
[02:38:18] <jmkasunich> from what I googled, the external antenna modules are good for a couple miles line of sight
[02:38:50] <jmkasunich> that might be enough to get Ray into town
[02:44:39] <skunkworks> until dsl finally came around here.
[02:45:22] <skunkworks> satellite was better than dialup but not a replacement for dls/cable/wireless
[02:59:16] <jepler> which parallel pins can be used as inputs?
[02:59:42] <cradek> the 5 that aren't 2-9
[03:00:02] <cradek> err 4?
[03:00:22] <cradek> well I think you can make them all inputs
[03:00:29] <cradek> just forget I said anything, I don't know
[03:00:50] <jepler> this page lists 10, 11, 12, 13, 15 as inputs ...
[03:00:58] <cradek> yeah
[03:01:09] <cradek> and usually 2-9 are the outputs
[03:01:18] <cradek> but there's also pin 1 which is usually an output
[03:03:56] <Jymmm> I think you can make them anythign you want, jsut what you normally see are used for printers.
[03:21:47] <jepler> I don't think there's full flexibility, but you may be right that there's some.
[03:40:54] <jmkasunich> not true
[03:41:25] <jmkasunich> the 8 in the data port (2-9) can be switched, input or output (but only as a group of 8)
[03:41:53] <jmkasunich> then there are 4 dedicated outs and 5 dedicated ins (or is it 5 out and 4 in)
[03:42:16] <jmkasunich> just load the hal parport driver and do "halcmd show pin parport"
[04:29:53] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/ (emc.1.in emc.1): some language cleanups, and insert the configs search path
[04:31:10] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/ (scripts/emc.in src/configure src/configure.in): allow insertion of the config path into the emc man page
[05:12:05] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/emc.1.in: fix header
[06:15:21] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[06:15:39] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[06:18:40] <LawrenceG> jepler: you still up?
[06:19:47] <LawrenceG> jepler: fwiw, eagle and qemu/acad run np under ubuntu... have them running here
[06:55:55] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_sleep
[10:32:26] <giacus> morning
[10:50:38] <alex_joni> yeah yeah
[10:51:08] <giacus> hey alex_joni
[10:51:53] <giacus> 55 of "Introduction to HAL" translated in IT
[10:51:56] <giacus> 55 %
[10:52:01] <giacus> :/
[10:52:28] <alex_joni> nice.. btw most needs changing ;)
[10:52:29] <giacus> can't see the end !
[10:52:31] <giacus> hehe
[10:52:54] <giacus> oh.. new rilevant changes ?
[10:53:08] <alex_joni> kinda.. but not major stuff
[10:53:13] <alex_joni> some names changed & parameters
[10:53:20] <giacus> K, I will check for it later
[10:54:20] <giacus> I will also send the doc to rayh, he should be able to upload it on the website
[10:54:33] <giacus> or you too, maybe
[10:58:33] <alex_joni> apt-get moo
[10:59:22] <giacus> ?
[10:59:42] <giacus> apt-get what ?
[10:59:56] <fenn> multi user dimension - object oriented
[11:00:04] <fenn> * fenn cackles with insane glee!
[11:00:08] <giacus> install / remove ?
[11:00:34] <giacus> that a new language ?
[11:00:39] <giacus> moo
[11:00:55] <alex_joni> giacus: try it
[11:01:05] <alex_joni> 'apt-get moo'
[11:01:25] <giacus> doh
[11:01:27] <giacus> LOL
[11:01:35] <giacus> a cow ?
[11:01:55] <giacus> or maybe a GNU
[11:03:04] <alex_joni> See the apt-get(8), sources.list(5) and apt.conf(5) manual
[11:03:05] <alex_joni> pages for more information and options.
[11:03:05] <alex_joni> This APT has Super Cow Powers.
[12:36:38] <giacus> does anyone did a nice graphic logo for emc2 ?
[12:44:42] <alex_joni> giacus: there are a few
[12:44:45] <alex_joni> check CVS
[12:44:57] <giacus> K
[13:00:16] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[13:00:17] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-21#T13-00-16
[13:11:18] <skunkworks> just got a ubuntu update for axis. cool
[13:14:01] <alex_joni> hi samco
[13:14:03] <alex_joni> by itself?
[13:21:01] <skunkworks> had just turned it on.
[13:22:46] <skunkworks> the update notification came on after I booted.
[13:22:56] <alex_joni> nice..
[13:23:02] <alex_joni> that's how it's supposed to work
[13:23:15] <alex_joni> we do the software, you don't worry about update (it's automatic ;)
[13:23:26] <skunkworks> still suprises me after doing it the manual way for a few months. ;)
[13:23:43] <alex_joni> skunkworks: imagine how I feel ;)
[13:23:58] <alex_joni> I've been doing it for 2 years :P
[13:24:05] <skunkworks> I can't ;)
[13:24:05] <alex_joni> otoh, I still do the cvs up ;)
[13:24:39] <alex_joni> and the cvs commit, which eventually (if enough nice features are added) end up in a nice shiny new package
[13:24:51] <alex_joni> but I think chris has done great work, and it all works flawlessly
[13:33:25] <skunkworks> My father will like this (he is proabaly reading this now)
[13:43:37] <alex_joni> heh
[14:04:33] <skunkworks> should know tonight how the 450mhz pentium 2 performs - should be finishing up the ubuntu install as we speak (let the first part install overnight and the second half I rebooted before work)
[14:18:43] <alex_joni> great
[14:51:28] <chinamill> * chinamill is away: _
[14:59:16] <jepler> but you just arrived!
[15:13:12] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[15:15:35] <jepler> hi alex
[15:15:35] <skunkworks> jepler - finally used the shift+left mouse button. works great in axis for rotating the drawing.
[15:15:42] <jepler> skunkworks: good
[15:50:14] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:50:17] <alex_joni> later everyone
[16:00:48] <chinamill> * chinamill is back
[16:01:00] <chinamill> Hello
[16:02:34] <chinamill> Does anyone know how to set up /etc/init.d/realtime ? To get emc2 running.
[16:06:33] <cradek> that is installed by the emc2 deb package, there is no setup required
[16:07:13] <chinamill> ok, I'll have a look
[16:07:52] <cradek> are you using ubuntu?
[16:08:54] <chinamill> I installed BDI 4.38
[16:09:29] <cradek> oh, then you'll have to compile emc2 from source
[16:09:33] <chinamill> and tried to use the wiki to get emc2 running... it is not woking for the moment
[16:09:38] <cradek> there are no packages for bdi.
[16:09:55] <chinamill> ok...
[16:10:02] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
[16:10:19] <cradek> if you want to use the emc2 packages, you should install ubuntu
[16:10:29] <skunkworks> ^- very cool. I love it.
[16:10:45] <chinamill> I think I want to try this.
[16:11:02] <cradek> paul (the bdi maintainer) is not interested in emc2 packages for bdi.
[16:11:14] <chinamill> ok
[16:11:43] <skunkworks> cradek - the changes you made to my computer - is that something that is now in emc2 or is it something that needs to be changed in the computer?
[16:13:42] <cradek> skunkworks: I made a change in the kernel package that lets it run on machines with >1G
[16:13:50] <cradek> skunkworks: so no there's nothing special you have to do now.
[16:14:02] <skunkworks> nice - you are the man. thanks
[16:14:10] <cradek> you're welcome
[16:14:11] <cradek> glad you like it
[16:15:01] <skunkworks> why doen't paul want to deal with emc2?
[16:15:34] <skunkworks> not that it matters - the ubuntu+emc2 package you have set up works wonderfully
[16:17:24] <skunkworks> for that matter the bd1 4.30 + emc2 works also. Just a little more work.
[16:18:06] <skunkworks> I had seen where someone had set up the direction to install emc2 on 4.38 - I take it that isn't working very well?
[16:20:02] <chinamill> You are correct...
[16:20:52] <skunkworks> wow the directions for the 4.38 bdi are pretty short.
[16:21:04] <chinamill> I think it is not very far from success but I like more the strait easy forward way
[16:21:16] <skunkworks> then go ubuntu ;)
[16:21:38] <chinamill> Thanks for the tip...
[16:21:38] <skunkworks> automatic updates as they are working on emc2
[16:21:47] <chinamill> cool!
[16:22:01] <skunkworks> that is what I said. ;)
[16:22:30] <chinamill> * chinamill is away: _
[17:00:34] <skunkworks> cradek: jepler - is this better? http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/axisubuntu.png
[17:00:42] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:00:43] <skunkworks> no turds
[17:01:34] <cradek> yes, nice picture
[17:02:15] <skunkworks> it runs really smooth on the 1.8ghz machine Very nice
[17:02:32] <cradek> are you controlling hardware with it yet?
[17:03:12] <skunkworks> no - tonight with the 450mhz - the install should be done when I get home.
[17:04:04] <skunkworks> how does it decide to change colors on the step move?
[17:04:16] <skunkworks> differnt feeds?
[17:04:55] <skunkworks> it the color in relation to feed? that is neet.
[17:05:26] <cradek> no, the color specifies the motion type
[17:05:44] <cradek> jogs, g0, g1, g2&3 are all different colors
[17:05:44] <skunkworks> there we go - arks vs lines?
[17:05:50] <skunkworks> ok
[17:05:55] <skunkworks> that makes sense
[17:06:01] <cradek> yes it lets you see that those are arcs, not a bunch of little lines
[17:07:05] <skunkworks> I can't say this enought - nice work.
[17:07:18] <cradek> thanks! we really appreciate it
[17:07:39] <cradek> and thanks again for letting me test on your machine, we found an important bug
[17:07:56] <skunkworks> no problem. sort of glad it wasn't me. ;)
[17:08:30] <skunkworks> lots of times it is ;)
[17:08:43] <cradek> haha
[17:39:50] <bill2or3> yay! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7590331459
[17:45:05] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymm
[17:45:40] <skunkworks> pretty neet bill
[17:45:49] <skunkworks> what is that going on?
[17:46:50] <bill2or3> not much.
[17:47:02] <bill2or3> that's a big relief, another component I dont have to build.
[17:50:59] <skunkworks> what are you building?
[17:51:02] <skunkworks> pictures?
[17:53:02] <bill2or3> a small cnc mill.
[17:53:11] <bill2or3> it's not started yet, I'm still collecting parts/tools.
[17:53:30] <bill2or3> I'm waiting on a boring-head I ordred, then I should be able to start on the base.
[17:53:49] <bill2or3> but I have motors/drivers and hopefully something that will work as rails.
[17:57:06] <bill2or3> I guess it's not too tiny, I'm shooting for a 18" 24" bed
[17:59:54] <skunkworks> nice size
[18:00:11] <skunkworks> some sort of gantry?
[18:02:53] <bill2or3> yeah.
[18:03:18] <bill2or3> I havent decided whether to put the Y slide on the gantry, or in a X-Y table.
[18:03:38] <bill2or3> I'm kind of leaning torwards putting it on the gantry, just to save space.
[18:04:40] <bill2or3> ever built a spindle?
[18:06:52] <skunkworks> built one using a wheel balancing motor and a collet style holder. mostly for high speed machining. (routing)
[18:08:29] <bill2or3> how'd it turn out?
[18:08:59] <bill2or3> http://www.buildyouridea.com/cnc/spindle_05/spindle_05.html is the only real discussion I've found online.
[18:09:02] <skunkworks> good - it was driven with a roll pin ;)
[18:09:18] <bill2or3> but I want to have it use collets, not limited to just 1/8" bits
[18:09:29] <bill2or3> got any pics?
[18:10:41] <skunkworks> I don't have any right now. could get a few tonight. - it was made to fit into our big mill - so the back end was made to fit into the spindle of the mill.
[18:11:11] <bill2or3> take some if it's no bother, but dont go out of your way for me
[18:11:19] <bill2or3> I need all the ideas I can get. :-/
[18:11:50] <bill2or3> I'm bidding on some morse taper 2 reamers on ebay, if I get one I'll be happy.
[18:12:32] <cncuser> hi folks :)
[18:12:35] <bill2or3> hello.
[18:12:47] <skunkworks> hi
[18:13:09] <cncuser> can anyone help with a build problme ? the make loops on Depending hal/components/supply.c Depending hal/components/stepgen.c .....
[18:13:25] <cncuser> on the Depending part
[18:13:36] <cncuser> i had it run for 5 minutes now i guess :)
[18:13:51] <bill2or3> I'm no help with that, unfortunatly.
[18:15:24] <skunkworks> bdi?
[18:15:32] <cncuser> skunkworks: no
[18:15:46] <cncuser> i get emc2 from cvs
[18:15:51] <cncuser> s/get/got/
[18:15:56] <cncuser> 30 minutes ago
[18:16:58] <skunkworks> I probably am not much help either.
[18:17:12] <cncuser> ;)
[18:17:55] <skunkworks> I have gotten the bdi 4.30 to work with emc2 following the directions on wiki
[18:18:17] <skunkworks> but now the ubuntu + emc2 that cradek has gotten working is as easy as pie.
[18:19:10] <cncuser> cool
[18:20:06] <cncuser> sf cvs lags big time
[18:20:12] <alex_joni> hello cncuser
[18:20:25] <skunkworks> there is the man
[18:20:33] <alex_joni> what? ;)
[18:20:44] <alex_joni> cncuser: the error you have comes from an older checkout
[18:20:56] <alex_joni> and I think you forgot to do cvs up -d
[18:21:22] <alex_joni> and the makefile wants to enter a dir in hal/ but fails so it runs the same Makefile again
[18:21:36] <cncuser> alex_joni: so i chould checkout again ?
[18:21:48] <alex_joni> but that is ancient stuff, two weeks ago the whole make system was replaced
[18:21:57] <alex_joni> cncuser: I suggest you use TESTING
[18:22:13] <cncuser> hmm, how ?
[18:22:17] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Testing
[18:22:40] <alex_joni> or http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc2-testing-2006-02-19.tar.gz
[18:22:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away again...
[18:23:31] <cncuser> thanks alex_joni, bye
[18:23:55] <alex_joni> cncuser: no problem ;)
[18:24:11] <skunkworks> I had used alex's tar a few weekends ago - for the same reason. (they had made a buch of changes the broke the cvs up -d)
[18:24:26] <alex_joni> skunkworks: we did not!
[18:24:33] <skunkworks> well it was a timing problem
[18:25:02] <skunkworks> there is a 2 hour delay between when something is commited and annonomous users can get them
[18:25:17] <skunkworks> or atleast that is how I understand it.
[18:25:34] <alex_joni> and you happened to be inbetween ;)
[18:25:39] <skunkworks> right
[18:25:41] <alex_joni> but it's more than 2 hours
[18:26:02] <skunkworks> now I don't worry. - ubuntu for the win
[18:26:19] <skunkworks> feel like I am a sales person
[18:39:03] <cncuser> hmmm
[18:39:14] <cncuser> testing the same problem
[18:39:17] <cncuser> hmmm
[18:39:42] <cncuser> ill get alexs snapshot
[18:39:47] <skunkworks> so this is a emc2 install you are trying to update?
[18:39:48] <bill2or3> mmmubuntu
[18:39:52] <cncuser> no
[18:39:58] <cncuser> its a brandnew install
[18:40:02] <skunkworks> ok - then I can't help
[18:40:03] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:40:06] <cncuser> im finishing my howto
[18:40:17] <skunkworks> on what platform?
[18:40:38] <cncuser> skunkworks: right now puppy. later a debian derivat with puppy features
[18:41:31] <skunkworks> neet. (not a linux person) - only used debian with konkorer(sp) and now ubuntu with gnome.
[18:41:49] <cncuser> skunkworks: debian is nice
[18:41:53] <cncuser> well
[18:41:54] <cncuser> hmm
[18:41:59] <cncuser> i just cant compile :)
[18:42:01] <cncuser> it loops
[18:42:06] <cncuser> all 3
[18:42:43] <cncuser> hmmm
[18:42:46] <cncuser> strange
[18:43:40] <skunkworks> ubuntu as far as I know is based on debian
[18:43:56] <cncuser> yes
[18:44:44] <skunkworks> I had an issue like that when I was updating emc2 a while back. I ended up deleting the emc2 directory and starting over.
[18:44:56] <skunkworks> if I remember right.
[18:45:05] <Jymm> ubuntu is based upon debian unstable.
[18:45:16] <Jymm> ubuntu is based upon debian stable & unstable.
[18:45:18] <skunkworks> it was a while ago. - it just kept looping though a certain part.
[18:45:29] <skunkworks> jymm ;)
[18:45:42] <skunkworks> I am a windows person - I am used to that ;)
[18:46:16] <Jymm> skunkworks: Well, unstable is a classification, not a description.
[18:46:21] <skunkworks> ah
[18:46:27] <cncuser> damit
[18:47:16] <Jymm> skunkworks: Stable sorta meaning "broken in and mostly reliable", unstable sorta menaing "we've added new things, but havne't really kicked the tires"
[18:48:19] <Jymm> skunkworks: That's why some dont like Debian, the stable build is usually doesn't have the latest and greatest applications in it.
[18:48:24] <skunkworks> (I have had the bdi 4.30 totally lock up on my a few time also.) But it may just be me - a non linux person
[18:48:47] <skunkworks> it is a trade off
[18:49:38] <Jymm> skunkworks: Debian in M$ terms.... STABLE would be like Windows2000, it's been around a while and most all the bugs/fixes are known. UNSTABLE is like XP, Has all the newest stuff, but still finding/fixing bugs.
[18:49:57] <skunkworks> makes sense.
[18:53:50] <Jymm> Then if you get into the BSD variants.... OpenBSD == High Security, FreeBSD == Performance, NetBSD == Netowrking
[18:54:30] <bill2or3> also, if you need an OS for your microwave, netbsd probablly runs there.
[18:54:31] <bill2or3> heh
[18:56:42] <cncuser> hmm, a propably 1 1/2 month old dvs checkout works (compiles)
[18:56:43] <cncuser> hmm
[19:05:39] <skunkworks> bsd?
[19:07:40] <cncuser> bsd is nice too
[19:07:48] <skunkworks> what does it stand for?
[19:08:05] <skunkworks> if anything
[19:08:16] <cncuser> does adeos/rtai work with the linux kernelcompatibility thingys ?
[19:08:27] <cncuser> berkley sofztware distri
[19:08:41] <Jymm> Berkeley Software Distribution
[19:09:02] <Jymm> goto google.com and enter define:bsd
[19:09:32] <cradek> Copyright 1992,1993,1994 Berkeley Software Design, Inc.
[19:09:32] <cradek> Copyright (c) 1980,1983,1986,1988,1990,1991 The Regents of the University
[19:09:32] <cradek> of California. All rights reserved.
[19:09:50] <cncuser> ok, design :)
[19:09:54] <cncuser> hi cradek :)
[19:09:56] <cradek> hi
[19:10:02] <cradek> that's one of my very old machines...
[19:10:30] <cradek> ha, installed Feb 1994
[19:10:37] <Jymm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BSD
[19:10:38] <cncuser> someone lend me a at please
[19:10:51] <cradek> at at
[19:10:57] <cncuser> i hate this crippled keyboardsetup but dont figure out ewhats wrong
[19:11:18] <cradek> what's wrong with your keyboard?
[19:11:26] <cncuser> @
[19:11:31] <cncuser> thanks chinamill
[19:12:28] <chinamill> Wow! the ubuntu emc2 install rocks! Very easy. Thanks for that one.
[19:13:04] <chinamill> Can somebody update the wiki?
[19:13:04] <cradek> done already?
[19:13:18] <cradek> you could :-)
[19:13:27] <chinamill> yep... really nice
[19:13:36] <chinamill> I dont have an account
[19:13:42] <cradek> you don't need one
[19:13:56] <cradek> go to the preferences screen
[19:14:04] <cradek> and for the password enter "emc"
[19:14:12] <cradek> then you can edit
[19:14:38] <alex_joni> hi guys
[19:14:41] <cradek> hi alex
[19:14:47] <alex_joni> hey chris
[19:16:10] <chinamill> cradek: I can not find any "edit" link
[19:16:24] <alex_joni> chinamill: you need to sign up first
[19:16:28] <alex_joni> then you'll have the edit
[19:16:36] <cradek> alex_joni: no, you just have to put in the password, right?
[19:16:37] <alex_joni> just enter a username and 'emc' as password
[19:16:42] <cradek> ah right
[19:16:48] <alex_joni> cradek: you need to make it remember you too
[19:23:00] <skunkworks> chinamill: pretty cool huh?
[19:23:14] <alex_joni> chinamill: need more help?
[19:23:39] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[19:24:02] <chinamill> cradek: the wiki is updated; maybe you can ad at your site that it is the install cd to download (I guess the live cd does not work).
[19:24:25] <cradek> chinamill: good idea
[19:27:49] <cradek> fixed
[19:33:17] <cncuser> cradek: is the small icon the axis logo ?
[19:33:45] <cncuser> x, y axis + a X
[19:34:01] <cradek> yes
[19:34:16] <cradek> the emc2 icon is the one on the applications menu
[19:34:21] <cncuser> do you have it vectorized
[19:34:29] <cradek> I don't think so
[19:34:32] <cradek> you'd have to ask jepler
[19:34:36] <cncuser> ok
[19:35:24] <cradek> I know he made several sizes
[19:36:12] <cncuser> where should modified configs go into ? machine_name ? or because they use stepper stepper/machinename ?
[19:36:32] <cradek> you should make a config in your home directory
[19:36:38] <cradek> ~/emc2/configs/name
[19:36:50] <cradek> then they will show up in the chooser when emc starts
[19:37:01] <cncuser> i know :)
[19:37:33] <cradek> oh I see what you are asking I think
[19:37:44] <cradek> you can call it whatever you want, stepper is just a sample
[19:37:50] <cncuser> there is 33 configs
[19:37:56] <cncuser> a 3
[19:37:58] <cncuser> ok
[19:54:40] <giacus> halo
[19:55:10] <giacus> Halcmd uses the system command rmmod to load the module
[19:55:15] <giacus> found a bug :P
[19:55:20] <giacus> hehe
[19:55:29] <cradek> where does it say that?
[19:55:30] <alex_joni> no it's not
[19:55:31] <giacus> 97 & translation completed ;P
[19:55:42] <giacus> %
[19:55:58] <alex_joni> giacus: where did you see that halcmd uses rmmod to load the module?
[19:56:15] <giacus> Introduction to Hal
[19:56:21] <alex_joni> was it in the documentation? like I said that is outdated, halcmd doesn't use insmod and rmmod anymore
[19:56:29] <alex_joni> it uses emc_module_helper
[19:56:37] <giacus> yes ..
[19:56:52] <giacus> at least Ive a based doc where to work
[19:57:00] <giacus> I will update it later
[19:57:10] <giacus> how much things are changed ? O_O
[19:57:49] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/emc.1.in: fix formatting
[19:58:20] <giacus> I hope the sintax fo halcmd its unchanged at least ..
[20:00:25] <alex_joni> giacus: check the manpage
[20:00:30] <alex_joni> that's pretty uptodate
[20:00:44] <giacus> ok
[20:05:57] <giacus> also could help to specify in the doc wich version of Emc2 the user can follow ..
[20:06:07] <giacus> to avoid confusion
[20:07:54] <giacus> at the moment Im writing the tutorial is compatible with emc2.xxx version
[20:08:24] <giacus> cant go updating that doc every day :/
[20:09:18] <giacus> thats a doc for newbies :)
[20:15:22] <alex_joni> giacus: if you update that now it'll stick with the emc2 release
[20:16:43] <giacus> sure, I'll update it now
[20:17:30] <Jymm> So... what is happening with EMC/BDI ?
[20:18:11] <cradek> Jymm: what do you mean?
[20:18:32] <Jymm> Is EMC/BDI being worked on?
[20:18:37] <alex_joni> emc's just great
[20:20:01] <Jymm> ?
[20:20:15] <cradek> if you mean bdi4emc (the version of emc that comes on bdi4), none of us know
[20:20:21] <cradek> there's a separate list for that version
[20:20:22] <Jymm> ?!
[20:20:27] <Jymm> why not?
[20:20:38] <cradek> we're all busy with emc2
[20:20:39] <alex_joni> Jymm: probably because we're to busy to care
[20:21:18] <Jymm> so it's been abandonded?
[20:21:29] <cradek> no, it's separate.
[20:21:40] <cradek> there's a separate mailing list, etc., search google for bdi4emc
[20:21:58] <Jymm> when did this happen?
[20:22:07] <cradek> umm, a while back, not sure
[20:22:20] <alex_joni> Jymm: it wasn't a very clear break
[20:22:28] <cradek> pretty much happened when paul_c resigned from the emc board of directors
[20:22:57] <Jymm> hmmmm
[20:23:01] <Jymm> Jymm is now known as Jymmm
[20:23:32] <Jymmm> Ok, so have goals been set for emc2 by chance?
[20:23:43] <alex_joni> Jymmm: release is the iminent goal
[20:23:53] <cradek> the main goal is to keep up this pace until release, which should be very soon
[20:24:06] <alex_joni> we're focusing on easy usage, easy install..
[20:24:09] <cradek> we've had a huge amount of progress lately
[20:24:14] <alex_joni> indeed
[20:24:46] <LawrenceG> jepler: Hey Jeff you around?
[20:24:49] <jepler> LawrenceG: hi
[20:25:18] <cradek> you can tell when it's working hours in the US: we're all here
[20:25:34] <jepler> LawrenceG: what's on your mind?
[20:25:35] <LawrenceG> jepler: you were asking about eagle and acad/qemu under ubuntu... both run great here
[20:25:44] <jepler> LawrenceG: I got eagle running too
[20:25:51] <jepler> LawrenceG: I haven't tried qemu yet
[20:26:05] <cradek> I'm sure qemu is the easy one of the two
[20:26:36] <LawrenceG> jepler: qemu... takes a bit to build both the accelerator and qemu, but its painless
[20:27:24] <cradek> LawrenceG: does the kernel accelerator help? when I tried it last (a while ago) I didn't see any difference
[20:27:49] <LawrenceG> jepler: I have qcad 12 running under win98 under qemu... yes the accel helps a bit, buts its quite usable without
[20:28:06] <cradek> so not a huge difference?
[20:29:09] <LawrenceG> no... maybe 30%, but for cad I find most of the time is spent waiting for me to input stuff, not waiting for the cpu
[20:29:34] <cradek> very true
[20:31:13] <LawrenceG> I dont use any of the acad 3D stuff.... mostly schematics, or house plans in old 2D
[20:31:31] <cradek> I have done 3d occasionally
[20:31:39] <LawrenceG> most schematic projects have moved to eagle now
[20:31:40] <cradek> actually I usually draw in 3d, but not solids
[20:31:59] <cradek> the solids modeling in R12 is ... limited
[20:32:28] <LawrenceG> My attempt at doing house plans in 3D resulting in a lot of floating roofs that were somewhere in the neighbors yard!
[20:32:47] <cradek> yeah it's good to look from a different viewpoint once in a while.
[20:33:08] <cradek> I did my parents' house, yard, deck when they were thinking about getting a new deck installed
[20:33:19] <cradek> the trees were green spheres on top of brown cylinders
[20:33:22] <cradek> very fancy
[20:33:54] <cradek> but I modeled the house and lumber to-scale
[20:34:21] <LawrenceG> cool... I built my current house from the plans I drew up.... used acad a lot for making notes... even designed the septic field on acad!
[20:34:52] <cradek> wow
[20:34:54] <dave-e> pretty fancy
[20:35:21] <dave-e> I spent most of my time modeling the thermal stuff with 'sunhouse'
[20:35:41] <Jymmm> sunhouse?
[20:36:00] <dave-e> a dos based thermal modeling program from 20 years ago
[20:36:26] <LawrenceG> the nice thing is doing it all in scale.... being able to stretch a roof or move a wall was great... even had all the applicances and furniture to scale so I could see if the rooms looked useable
[20:36:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm like DOS =)
[20:37:04] <dave-e> this house is r45 in ceiling and only r30 in the walls
[20:37:22] <dave-e> will go 80 degrees inside today from sun
[20:37:25] <Jymmm> 4" or 6" studs?
[20:37:45] <dave-e> 2x8 with 2x4 flat overlay
[20:38:01] <LawrenceG> dos on a 3ghz box with a gb of ram is probably outside the design scope of the original OS
[20:38:22] <dave-e> indeed...what are your degree-days like?
[20:38:27] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: Great for PONG though.
[20:38:49] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: he..he..he
[20:39:20] <Jymmm> I wonder what my original PONG game would be worth today?
[20:39:37] <LawrenceG> check ebay
[20:39:42] <Jymmm> good idea
[20:39:56] <dave-e> if probably doesn't scale the clock so would be screaming fast
[20:40:09] <LawrenceG> 2305 hits for pong
[20:40:37] <Jymmm> $36 =( http://cgi.ebay.com/1976-Atari-PONG-Video-Game-System-w-Instructions-MIB-EX_W0QQitemZ8260707622QQcategoryZ4315QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:40:52] <dave-e> just guessing but you might need a modern video card to keep up... <grin>
[20:41:09] <LawrenceG> http://cgi.ebay.com/31-Orange-Ping-Pong-Balls-966-times-Table-Tennis-Ball_W0QQitemZ7218852094QQcategoryZ20870QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:41:42] <LawrenceG> you can get most anything....
[20:41:48] <Jymmm> $10 shipping? WTF!
[20:42:13] <LawrenceG> hey... fed ex and ups love ebay
[20:42:32] <Jymmm> as does USPS
[20:42:51] <Jymmm> Eh, ping pong balls are only good for one thing to me.
[20:44:36] <dave-e> damn! curses seems to have problems on the video part of 4.38
[20:45:15] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: what do guys from California do with ping pong balls?
[20:45:46] <Jymmm> LawrenceG dont know about anyone else, I only use them for pyrotechnics
[20:45:48] <dave-e> load them with traffic lacquer and shoot them at cars that make you mad
[20:46:20] <dave-e> as in flaming balls
[20:46:28] <LawrenceG> now that sounds like fun.... CO2 bazooka
[20:46:29] <dave-e> ?
[20:47:00] <dave-e> CO2 should work fine....600 psi or so
[20:47:41] <LawrenceG> to bring this on topic... I guess emc would be used to run the motion compensation platform
[20:49:09] <dave-e> laser sight stabalier?
[20:49:20] <dave-e> forget the spelling
[20:49:59] <dave-e> anyone have any ideas about a video card that will work on 4.38 and 2.18?
[20:54:13] <LawrenceG> Is anyone working on the font problem with mini in the current ubuntu stuff? I know Ray mentioned it a few days ago
[20:54:32] <LawrenceG> Its not critical for release, but a cosmetic issue
[20:57:25] <cradek> last I heard, ray was working on it.
[20:57:49] <cradek> I fixed the same font problem in tkemc but have not looked at mini.
[20:58:12] <LawrenceG> great... I played with it for a while to see if I could specify a font that would work, but had no success
[20:58:22] <cradek> the basic problem is ubuntu doesn't scale bitmap fonts by default (because they look bad) so you have to use a truetype font.
[20:58:35] <cradek> (or of course you can turn on scaling)
[20:58:48] <cradek> but I don't want to require a certain X configuration if we can fix it another way.
[20:59:34] <LawrenceG> I think the current font is courier, but is just shows as normal text size.... how does tcl handle ttf's
[21:00:48] <cradek> I'm not sure about all the details but the best font for big numbers seems to be {courier 10 pitch}
[21:01:02] <cradek> set fontfamily {courier 10 pitch}
[21:01:02] <cradek> set fontsize 48
[21:01:02] <cradek> set fontstyle bold
[21:01:02] <cradek> setfont
[21:01:07] <cradek> (from tkemc)
[21:01:14] <LawrenceG> the syntax seems to be font name, bold, size... but nothing I tried made any difference... even loaded mscorettf module
[21:01:46] <cradek> I think there are very few fixed width ttf fonts
[21:01:59] <cradek> the other I found that would scale is bitstream vera sans mono
[21:02:07] <cradek> but it's terrible because it has a dot in the middle of the 0
[21:02:25] <cradek> so the first thing you think you see is "8.8888"
[21:03:00] <cradek> I think there are also resource files that mini tries to load - they may not have made it to emc2 at all yet.
[21:03:24] <LawrenceG> just firing up the test box to see if I can cut and paste your font stuff
[21:03:28] <cradek> let me know if you figure out the details and get it working; I'll try to fix the installation.
[21:04:55] <LawrenceG> will do...
[21:04:58] <cradek> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl?r1=1.18&r2=1.19
[21:06:58] <jepler> oooh, I know. We should replace those labels with canvases, and draw 7-segment-style digits
[21:07:11] <cradek> no they should obviously be pictures of nixie tubes
[21:07:29] <LawrenceG> now I like that idea
[21:07:45] <cradek> *real* mills have nixie tubes
[21:07:54] <LawrenceG> what size would you like the images?
[21:08:13] <bill2or3> heh
[21:08:14] <bill2or3> funny.
[21:08:17] <cradek> ask jepler, he's the mini maintainer
[21:08:29] <les_w> hi guys
[21:08:32] <jepler> now that I've removed the 'after 10000' from mini startup, we can just shell out to povray and render them at whatever resolution the user wants
[21:08:35] <jepler> each time we start up
[21:08:47] <cradek> perfect
[21:08:51] <cradek> hi les
[21:09:00] <jepler> cradek is just joking that I'm the "mini maintainer"?
[21:09:04] <skunkworks> our big mill uses a display that projects the number onto a screen from behind - has like 16 differnt little lights and films.
[21:09:05] <jepler> cradek is just joking that I'm the "mini maintainer".
[21:09:10] <cradek> jepler: you touched it last
[21:09:16] <skunkworks> this is for displaying the n - number
[21:09:20] <jepler> cradek is just joking that I'm the "mini maintainer"!
[21:09:21] <cradek> skunkworks: those are very nice too
[21:09:32] <skunkworks> I don't know what they are called.
[21:09:37] <cradek> skunkworks: projection displays
[21:09:39] <skunkworks> ah
[21:09:42] <skunkworks> easy enough
[21:09:52] <cradek> (I'm a display technology geek/collector)
[21:10:08] <les_w> nixie huh
[21:10:26] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:10:43] <cradek> skunkworks: do you have to replace bulbs often?
[21:11:06] <les_w> I made a mechanical flying spot scanner tv whenI was a kid
[21:11:29] <les_w> disks with spiral holes...neon light....photodiode
[21:11:35] <bill2or3> fear
[21:11:38] <cradek> les_w: those were all the rage after WW1...
[21:11:46] <les_w> haha
[21:11:56] <les_w> I was a little late on that one
[21:11:58] <cradek> les_w: did you make a mechanical TV to go with it?
[21:12:01] <skunkworks> don't remember ever replacing them - I don't know if we look at it much - it is also displayed on the computer screen (tape emulator)
[21:12:13] <cradek> les_w: those are very cool.
[21:12:30] <cradek> les_w: you should see the early TV museum in ...cleveland? ohio somewhere
[21:12:42] <les_w> made an edison phonograph too...you know tin foil, threaded rod, coffee cans
[21:12:53] <cradek> les_w: they have several mechanical TVs running, and a "camera" to display stuff on them
[21:12:59] <les_w> neat
[21:13:35] <cradek> they have by far most (!) of the pre-war televisions in existence
[21:13:56] <skunkworks> that would be neat to see.
[21:14:08] <cradek> it's worth a trip. I drove for days to see it.
[21:14:32] <cradek> they have two (!) CBS color sets (the spinning color wheel in front of the b&w tube)
[21:14:41] <cradek> they give beautiful color
[21:14:54] <cradek> they made some custom system to generate the signal to run them
[21:14:55] <les_w> my eyes are tired...micromachining ultrasonic resonators under the microscope all day
[21:15:20] <les_w> tiny little shallow cones about .25 in diameter and .005 thick
[21:15:26] <les_w> aluminum
[21:15:51] <dave-e> hmmmm that sounds like an edm job
[21:15:54] <cradek> http://www.earlytelevision.org/gray_monitor.html
[21:15:59] <les_w> little teeny impedance matching devices
[21:16:04] <giacus> hi les_w :)
[21:16:33] <cradek> I saw this one running
[21:16:44] <cradek> he had just finished restoring it
[21:16:47] <les_w> hi giacus
[21:16:55] <les_w> wow pretty good color!
[21:17:12] <cradek> les_w: it looks amazingly good in person, very brilliant
[21:17:40] <les_w> sure beats our poor quality narrow I transmissions
[21:18:00] <cradek> les_w: I think three of these CBS color sets are known to exist - the museum has two, restored
[21:18:46] <skunkworks> it is funny how they are going back to something similar in the dlp's
[21:19:37] <les_w> I have not gone to HD yet...seems not standardized yet
[21:21:48] <les_w> oh well...I need to find some data aq software that can do impedance analysis from 2 channels
[21:21:51] <cradek> les_w: http://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_scanning_disk.html
[21:22:00] <les_w> might have it
[21:22:04] <cradek> les_w: I was really impressed by this one
[21:24:32] <les_w> yeah really neat
[21:24:45] <les_w> my disks were on the same shaft
[21:24:57] <les_w> so no synch problems
[21:25:20] <les_w> sync?
[21:25:23] <les_w> haha
[21:25:27] <cradek> les_w: sync is pretty easy if you're on the same power grid...
[21:25:35] <les_w> yup
[21:26:04] <les_w> As a kid I also had some of those rotating drum faxes
[21:26:05] <cradek> les_w: I understand very early sets had no provision for sync, so the viewer had a knob to turn and he would "drive" the TV to keep the picture on-screen
[21:26:16] <les_w> haha
[21:26:57] <cradek> but for obvious reasons they figured out synchronizing schemes pretty fast
[21:27:05] <les_w> My faxes had a bunch of tubes and a stylus that burned the image in special paper
[21:27:18] <les_w> they kept perfect sync
[21:27:22] <cradek> it was a real problem if you could broadcast further than your power grid reached
[21:27:29] <cradek> slick
[21:27:34] <cradek> how did they sync?
[21:27:36] <dave-e> alex..you keeping track?
[21:27:52] <alex_joni> dave-e: about what?
[21:28:01] <les_w> not sure...I think they used hysteresis syncronous motors
[21:28:06] <dave-e> emc2 stg driver
[21:28:25] <alex_joni> dave-e: did I miss anything?
[21:28:44] <dave-e> ray says he gets the .o but not the .ko
[21:28:49] <les_w> well time to take the latest resonators out of the curing oven
[21:28:51] <les_w> bbiaw
[21:29:19] <alex_joni> dave-e: where did he say that?
[21:29:20] <dave-e> under ubuntu
[21:29:29] <dave-e> on phone
[21:29:39] <alex_joni> oh, ok, I think he's looking in the wrong place?
[21:29:48] <alex_joni> emc2/rtlib/hal_stg.ko ?
[21:29:59] <dave-e> brb
[21:30:45] <cradek> chris@buster2:/usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/modules/emc2$ locate hal_stg.ko
[21:30:49] <cradek> /usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/modules/emc2/hal_stg.ko
[21:31:03] <alex_joni> that's for the installed version
[21:31:19] <cradek> yes, it gets built and installed
[21:32:04] <dave-e> alex....yep he found it.....
[21:32:15] <dave-e> it pays to know where to look
[21:32:41] <alex_joni> cradek: wasn't sure what/where he was looking for
[21:32:50] <dave-e> and what to look for....it is going to take awhile to get used to emc2
[21:33:13] <alex_joni> dave-e: a transition now might..
[21:33:27] <alex_joni> I can't appreciate that, as I moved along slowly through all phases
[21:33:38] <alex_joni> well not all, wasn't there when it was born..
[21:34:14] <Jymmm> whats teh code to tell the ontroll "This is in mm" ?
[21:34:26] <cradek> ontroll?
[21:34:32] <Jymmm> controller
[21:34:44] <cradek> google for rs274ngc
[21:34:54] <cradek> then rtfm
[21:34:59] <alex_joni> G21
[21:35:04] <Jymmm> ty alex_joni
[21:35:07] <cradek> or ask alex :-P
[21:35:07] <giacus> :)
[21:35:15] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that doesn't save you to RTFM
[21:35:27] <cradek> I can never remember if it's G20 or G21, so I would have had to look, which I figured you could do just as easily
[21:35:29] <alex_joni> only the first answer is free
[21:35:48] <alex_joni> cradek: I remember it like this: people who wrote it defaulte to inch
[21:35:56] <alex_joni> so the smaller number is inch (G20)
[21:35:58] <cradek> Jymmm: you used up your free one on that? oops!
[21:36:04] <cradek> alex_joni: good idea
[21:36:19] <alex_joni> defaulted
[21:36:41] <alex_joni> if that's even a word..
[21:37:00] <alex_joni> Jymmm: if you tell me what G22 is, you'll haveanother free one..
[21:37:27] <Jymmm> Stored stroke limit ON
[21:37:40] <Jymmm> G22 Circular Interpolation
[21:37:53] <Jymmm> nfc what that measn though =)
[21:38:24] <alex_joni> nope.. the G22 is a .300 Winchester Magnum
[21:38:40] <alex_joni> http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/g22-06.jpg
[21:38:53] <alex_joni> http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/g22-closeup.jpg
[21:38:59] <alex_joni> http://www.waffenhq.de/infanterie/g22-05.jpg
[21:40:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni Eh, I like my G17
[21:40:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni as in Glock 17
[21:44:41] <Jymmm> alex_joni I want to get this for it http://www.lasersightshop.com/lasermax-glock.htm
[21:46:57] <alex_joni> Jymmm: no comment
[21:47:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni why not?
[21:52:04] <alex_joni> I'm not a fan of firearms
[21:52:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni ah
[21:53:56] <alex_joni> don't see any reason to ever have one..
[21:54:08] <Jymmm> no comment
[22:01:06] <alex_joni> ;-)
[22:29:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:29:23] <alex_joni> night all
[22:37:54] <les_w> about time to call it a day
[23:39:02] <bill2or3> anyone have an opinion on using somethig like "leading 2" at http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/body_self_made_parts.html
[23:39:12] <bill2or3> and what material should use for the rollers.
[23:41:17] <bill2or3> ^I
[23:42:00] <LawrenceG> cradek: youstill around.... got position fonts working in mini
[23:42:54] <ace> Cradek?
[23:43:07] <ace> <-skunkworks
[23:43:27] <ace> Is this a problem? I get it every time. (must not be)
[23:44:04] <LawrenceG> cradek: in the ini file... under display section add line: POSITION_FONT = {Courier 10 pitch} 32 bold
[23:44:10] <ace> never mind - it isn't in the clipboard anymore. sorry
[23:44:14] <ace> ;)
[23:44:16] <ace> be back later
[23:44:39] <ace> sort of an irc and run ;)
[23:45:10] <LawrenceG> cradek: in mini.tcl, at about line 1140 add call to setfontx
[23:46:02] <LawrenceG> cradek: this works well with 1024x768 display size