#emc | Logs for 2006-02-18

[00:08:57] <jmkasunich> hello skunkworks
[00:11:30] <skunkworks> Hi
[00:11:35] <jmkasunich> any news?
[00:11:51] <jmkasunich> did memtest find bad memory?
[00:12:01] <skunkworks> nope.
[00:12:10] <jmkasunich> damn
[00:12:19] <skunkworks> here is the thing - I uninstalled the 512 and it worked.
[00:12:37] <skunkworks> i installed a differnt 512mb memory and it failed
[00:12:44] <jmkasunich> weird
[00:13:02] <skunkworks> swapped the location of the 512 and the 1gb same isssue (no start)
[00:13:15] <skunkworks> runs fine with 1gb
[00:13:33] <jmkasunich> so it just plain doesn't like having 1.5G, regardless of which chips are in which socket
[00:13:55] <skunkworks> now - I installed ubunto on my workstation (dell pentium 4) with 1.256gb
[00:14:10] <skunkworks> it did the same thing - if I remove the 256mb it ran
[00:14:22] <jmkasunich> this is a totally different computer?
[00:14:39] <skunkworks> yes other then they where both pentum 4 computer
[00:15:26] <jmkasunich> you may have found a subtle but in linux somewhere
[00:15:32] <jmkasunich> (or in the pr, for all I know)
[00:15:39] <jmkasunich> s/pr/P4/
[00:16:08] <jmkasunich> cradek tried doing a make -j last night (compiles all files in parallel)
[00:16:29] <skunkworks> right - it runs just fine with just 1gb
[00:16:37] <jmkasunich> that loads yp memory with lots of copies of gcc, and he started getting segfaults and other errors once he filled memory
[00:16:49] <jmkasunich> so its not a emc, rtapi, or even rtai thing, its a "memory over 1G" thing
[00:17:11] <jmkasunich> its just that rtai allocates shared memory at the top, so it shows up sooner
[00:17:27] <skunkworks> I can't remember what credak said - let me look at the history
[00:17:34] <jmkasunich> anyway, what is important is that you are running
[00:17:39] <skunkworks> yes - thanks
[00:17:51] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[00:17:51] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-18#T00-17-51
[00:17:56] <jmkasunich> I just got home from work, need to have dinner with my wife, then we're going out
[00:18:18] <jmkasunich> but my curiosity was killing me, had to find out what happened ;-)
[00:18:27] <skunkworks> have a good night - the computer is on if you still want to look at it. with 1.5gb
[00:18:39] <jmkasunich> I won't be online tonight
[00:18:40] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[00:19:12] <skunkworks> have fun
[00:49:52] <alex_joni> 'lo
[00:49:55] <alex_joni> anyone around?
[00:50:17] <SWPadnos> no
[00:50:29] <alex_joni> ok, I thought I was dreaming..
[00:51:38] <alex_joni> must be so ;)
[00:51:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:51:52] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: do you know anything about tape drives?
[00:51:57] <SWPadnos> some
[00:52:09] <SWPadnos> I just bought one, in fact
[00:52:28] <SWPadnos> back in a minute
[00:52:31] <alex_joni> ok
[00:55:02] <SWPadnos> back
[00:55:13] <SWPadnos> so - looking for SCSI tape drives?
[00:56:03] <alex_joni> yeah ;)
[00:56:16] <alex_joni> local stores are pretty scarse
[00:56:18] <alex_joni> :/
[00:56:20] <SWPadnos> what capacity?
[00:56:28] <alex_joni> around 20G
[00:56:28] <SWPadnos> they're expensive, that's for sure
[00:56:36] <SWPadnos> ok, that's pretty small
[00:56:43] <SWPadnos> in fact, it's very small
[00:56:45] <alex_joni> found a SONY, DDS4 SDT 11000
[00:56:55] <alex_joni> for around 900$
[00:57:29] <SWPadnos> that's kind of expensive (though it may be your location)
[00:57:38] <alex_joni> great, 350$ in the US
[00:57:42] <SWPadnos> an AIT drive is higher capacity and roughly half the price
[00:57:45] <alex_joni> now that's a rip-off
[00:57:58] <SWPadnos> ok - not half that price ;)
[00:58:04] <alex_joni> http://www.pacificdatastorage.com/sdt-11000.asp
[00:58:16] <alex_joni> I think around 500$ it's ok
[00:58:19] <SWPadnos> yep - I've seen those
[00:58:39] <SWPadnos> DDS4 is pretty old technology, and there isn't much of an upgrade path
[00:58:47] <SWPadnos> how long do you expect to use this machine?
[00:58:53] <alex_joni> AIT tapes seem awfully expensive
[00:59:00] <alex_joni> pretty long , why?
[00:59:02] <SWPadnos> the tapes are
[00:59:15] <alex_joni> I see DDS3 12G tapes for 15$
[00:59:22] <SWPadnos> because you may have a hard time finding replacement hardware that will read DDS4 in 5 years
[00:59:33] <SWPadnos> if something breaks
[00:59:39] <alex_joni> and AIT1 35GB for around 250$
[00:59:50] <SWPadnos> that's probably IDE, at that price
[00:59:53] <alex_joni> that's almost 20 times more expensive
[01:00:01] <alex_joni> no, I mean the tape, not the drive
[01:00:06] <SWPadnos> wait - for the cartridge?
[01:00:09] <alex_joni> yes
[01:00:12] <SWPadnos> that's a 10-pack, at least
[01:00:20] <SWPadnos> olr a true rip-off
[01:00:24] <SWPadnos> or
[01:00:38] <alex_joni> not at all, 1 pcs
[01:00:40] <alex_joni> http://www.flamingo.ro/produs.asp?id=4066
[01:00:50] <alex_joni> exchange rate is about 3:1
[01:00:53] <alex_joni> 1$=3RON
[01:01:15] <alex_joni> 243$
[01:01:16] <SWPadnos> well, that's about 10x what it shuold cost
[01:01:24] <alex_joni> :/
[01:02:46] <alex_joni> http://cgi.ebay.ch/Sony-SDT-11000-SCSI-tape-drive-40-GB-LIKE-NEW_W0QQitemZ8760106406QQcategoryZ8056QQcmdZViewItem
[01:02:51] <alex_joni> 100 EUR, that's better
[01:03:15] <SWPadnos> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16840999208
[01:03:24] <SWPadnos> that's closer to what I'm used to (cost-wise)
[01:03:33] <SWPadnos> $50 for a 200G tape is much better ;)
[01:05:03] <alex_joni> that's too big for now
[01:05:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:05:23] <SWPadnos> that was just for the price comparison
[01:05:35] <alex_joni> yeah, rip-off :(
[01:05:37] <SWPadnos> but you should think about that as well, in terms of future storage growth
[01:06:11] <SWPadnos> DDS goes up to DDS4, which is 20/40G, I think
[01:06:29] <alex_joni> oh my, this is nice: http://cgi.ebay.de/Quantum-ATL-P3000-Band-Roboter-Tape-Library_W0QQitemZ8763847869QQcategoryZ79407QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:06:29] <SWPadnos> AIT starts at 35/90G, and goes up from there
[01:07:00] <alex_joni> Tape Drive: 12 x DLT-7000 (35/70G)
[01:07:06] <alex_joni> I would have 11 for spare ;)
[01:07:39] <alex_joni> although 600kg ;)
[01:07:41] <SWPadnos> I have an AIT-2 drive I can sell you, but make sure you have HVD SCSI :(
[01:07:51] <alex_joni> I have U160
[01:08:03] <SWPadnos> that can be either LVD/SE or HVD
[01:08:11] <SWPadnos> though HVD may have staerted with U320
[01:08:49] <alex_joni> is there a way to tell?
[01:09:04] <SWPadnos> the controller and devices should say what interfaces they support
[01:09:26] <SWPadnos> don't plug LVD devices into an HVD controller (though the other way around seems to do no harm ;) )
[01:10:13] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/Qualstar-TLS-412600-AIT-3-600-Slot-Tape-Library_W0QQitemZ8766071084QQcategoryZ51090QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:10:25] <SWPadnos> if you want a little extra capacity ;)
[01:10:52] <alex_joni> yeah, but only 2 drives in it
[01:10:56] <alex_joni> for 10k$
[01:11:05] <SWPadnos> they probably have aggregate speed higher than the 12 DDS drives
[01:11:20] <SWPadnos> that's something else to look at - how long a backup takes
[01:11:43] <SWPadnos> AIT2 can write 6MB/second uncompressed, or 15 compressed
[01:11:54] <SWPadnos> I think it's double for AIT3
[01:12:29] <SWPadnos> if you're backing up 20G, AIT will take around an hour (+/-)
[01:12:59] <alex_joni> I think I can get this one pretty cheap : http://cgi.ebay.de/SONY-SDX-500C-SCSI-LVD-SE-68Pin-AIT-2_W0QQitemZ8767735977QQcategoryZ8056QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:12:59] <SWPadnos> I think DDS is in the 1-2M/sec range (if that), so a 20G job will be in the 3 hour range
[01:13:26] <SWPadnos> that's what I have
[01:13:53] <alex_joni> but he thinks it's broken, that's why he's selling it ;)
[01:14:04] <alex_joni> probably it will go for under 20EUR
[01:14:19] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8741312847
[01:14:27] <SWPadnos> that's the exact one I bought
[01:14:35] <SWPadnos> still one left
[01:15:10] <alex_joni> media: AIT 170M, AIT2 230M ?
[01:15:12] <SWPadnos> that drive isn't quite as good as the SDX-510C, which gets 2.3:1 compression (instead of 2:1 for this drive)
[01:15:34] <SWPadnos> it will read/write any AIT media with a lower number than the drive, so AIT1 or AIT2
[01:15:57] <SWPadnos> and if you get a bigger HD, you can buy an AIT3 or AIT4 drive, and you'll still be able to read/write these tapes
[01:17:10] <SWPadnos> so - the things to look at when buying a tape drive:
[01:17:22] <SWPadnos> 1) interface (IDE, SCSI LVD, SCSI HVD ...)
[01:17:26] <SWPadnos> 2) capacity
[01:17:30] <SWPadnos> 3) write speed
[01:17:34] <SWPadnos> 4) media costs
[01:17:46] <SWPadnos> 5) upgrade path
[01:17:46] <alex_joni> is there a way to tell what kind of SCSI I have?
[01:18:03] <SWPadnos> 6) media compatibility with future drives
[01:18:08] <SWPadnos> do you have the card?
[01:18:25] <alex_joni> it's an onboard SCSI
[01:18:29] <alex_joni> on a dual Xeon
[01:18:36] <SWPadnos> ok. U16o you said?
[01:18:40] <SWPadnos> U160
[01:18:48] <alex_joni> yes
[01:18:57] <alex_joni> hang on looking for lspci
[01:19:15] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure the chip type will tell you, though it may
[01:19:28] <alex_joni> Adaptec AIC-7899P U160/m
[01:20:08] <SWPadnos> same as I have on my AHA39160
[01:20:24] <SWPadnos> which happens to be LVD/SE, but I'm not sure that means yours is
[01:21:36] <alex_joni> can you tell from the HDD type?
[01:21:44] <SWPadnos> the HDD should be labeled
[01:21:55] <alex_joni> Fujitsu MAE3091LP
[01:22:00] <SWPadnos> or the model number may tell you
[01:22:36] <SWPadnos> looks like it's LVD
[01:22:38] <alex_joni> LVD / Ultra-2 SCSI / Single Port
[01:22:46] <alex_joni> 68-pin Wide
[01:22:47] <SWPadnos> and only 80 MB/sec (Ultra2)
[01:23:00] <alex_joni> yes
[01:23:10] <SWPadnos> ok, so that tape drive I linked to should work
[01:24:17] <alex_joni> 50 EUR for a 100/260G AIT-3 tape on ebay
[01:24:26] <alex_joni> SDX3-100C
[01:24:32] <SWPadnos> that's a lot (and won't work in that drive)
[01:24:38] <SWPadnos> you need the SDX2-50C
[01:25:26] <SWPadnos> though the SDX2-36C will also work, but has lower capacity
[01:28:57] <alex_joni> I'll look around ebay.de see what I can find
[01:29:15] <SWPadnos> ok. expect to pay a fair amount for the media, by the way
[01:29:50] <SWPadnos> a normal backup plan uses roughly 10-12 cartridges, and you save one each month (or quarter)
[01:30:19] <SWPadnos> but that's a business-y way to do things. for home use, you can do a bit less ;)
[01:31:18] <alex_joni> hi john
[01:31:25] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[01:31:30] <SWPadnos> hiya
[01:31:33] <jmkasunich> surprised to see you this late
[01:31:38] <jmkasunich> hi stephen
[01:31:38] <alex_joni> seen you & cradek took off where I left skunkworks
[01:31:44] <jmkasunich> yeah,
[01:31:48] <jmkasunich> that was a weird one
[01:31:53] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I had some hard days lately, and slept this afternoon
[01:32:00] <jmkasunich> ah
[01:32:02] <alex_joni> still is ;)
[01:32:18] <jmkasunich> yeah, but not a rtapi weird one
[01:32:38] <jmkasunich> I wonder if there is some kernel config that affects how it handles memory over 1G?
[01:32:56] <SWPadnos> there are several options
[01:33:03] <SWPadnos> the normal split is 1G kernel / 3G user
[01:33:14] <jmkasunich> that is the virtual address space
[01:33:20] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:33:24] <jmkasunich> I'm talking about physical ram
[01:33:37] <SWPadnos> it uses physical RAM over 1G without issue, most of the time
[01:33:55] <jmkasunich> skunkworks apparently has TWO different boxes, both of which run emc2 fine when they have 1G, but fail when more is installed
[01:34:25] <SWPadnos> same installation type (BDI / ubuntu / ...)?
[01:34:33] <jmkasunich> the symptom is writes to an address like 3f507004 modify memory at 3f506004
[01:34:41] <jmkasunich> one was ubuntu
[01:34:46] <jmkasunich> dunno about the other
[01:34:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:35:20] <jmkasunich> being a hardware guy, when I saw the error I immediately assumed an open address line or something
[01:35:33] <jmkasunich> but it ran memtest most of the night without coming up with anything
[01:35:39] <SWPadnos> yep
[01:36:06] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I assume something borked inside the mem. controller in the chipset
[01:36:08] <jmkasunich> cradek was also able to get it to fail with make -j, which uses lots of memory (but nothing RTAI, RTAPI, or EMC related)
[01:36:10] <SWPadnos> I have a machine that I may be able to test 1.5G in
[01:36:16] <alex_joni> but it's odd that another PC aswell
[01:36:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: how about something like this: http://cgi.ebay.de/Streamer-DLT-1-Overland-LoaderXpress-bis-800-GB-84122_W0QQitemZ8767858994QQcategoryZ79407QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:36:34] <jmkasunich> another possibilty is the MMU is mapping the same physical memory to two virtual addresses
[01:37:11] <SWPadnos> well, it shouldn't be ;)
[01:37:20] <SWPadnos> not that that really means anything
[01:37:31] <jmkasunich> heh, that's why we call it a bug
[01:37:35] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: any idea what a iommu is?
[01:37:40] <SWPadnos> but htere are a lot of people using 1G+ machines, and I haven't seen a lot of complaints
[01:38:01] <SWPadnos> it's the memory management unit for I/O operations (basically DMA for I/O)
[01:38:01] <jmkasunich> using them for EMC? or just using them for vanilla linux?
[01:38:12] <fenn> * fenn boggles at using 1G for EMC
[01:38:53] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I remember reading some changelogs of more recent kernels, that say something about iommu fixes
[01:38:59] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, that library may be OK, but it would take an awfully long time to fill ;)
[01:41:12] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: this might prove interesting: http://kerneltrap.org/node/2450
[01:45:10] <Jymmm> 1G ?
[01:45:26] <Jymmm> 1GHz?
[01:45:36] <jmkasunich> 1 gigabyte ram
[01:45:52] <rayh> alex_joni: Do you know what command I ought to use to get the emc2 sources from your site?
[01:45:56] <Jymmm> Ah, I'm waiting for 8GB ram to become commonplace
[01:46:04] <alex_joni> rayh: sources?
[01:46:25] <alex_joni> you mean the debian way? or the tar.gz?
[01:46:34] <rayh> debian way
[01:46:50] <alex_joni> ok, you need to edit /etc/apt/sources.lst
[01:46:56] <rayh> I got a command from chris the other day that setup all the dependencies.
[01:47:02] <rayh> Got that now.
[01:47:09] <alex_joni> and add a deb-src http://dsplab.cs.utt.ro/...
[01:47:19] <rayh> Yep.
[01:47:20] <alex_joni> just like the deb http://dsplabs.. you have in there
[01:47:28] <alex_joni> ok, apt-get update
[01:47:34] <rayh> k
[01:47:35] <alex_joni> then apt-get build-dep emc2
[01:47:41] <alex_joni> if I remember it right
[01:47:46] <rayh> okay. That's it.
[01:47:54] <rayh> going away to try.
[01:47:57] <alex_joni> that should pull all packages needed to be able to compile emc2
[01:48:14] <alex_joni> after that: apt-get source emc2
[01:48:23] <alex_joni> or get it from CVS, shouldn't matter
[01:48:51] <jmkasunich> I wonder if somebody (hint, hint) would be kind enough to put that info on the TESTING wiki page
[01:49:01] <jmkasunich> under "other ways to get emc2 testing"
[01:51:06] <Jymmm> whats the diff of SFPM and FPM ?
[01:51:14] <jmkasunich> no dif
[01:51:23] <jmkasunich> sfpm means surface feet per minute
[01:51:41] <jmkasunich> probably more used on lathe, to refer to the surface of the part moving past the tool
[01:51:41] <Jymmm> 'surface' as opposed to ?
[01:51:49] <SWPadnos> motion?
[01:52:04] <Jymmm> http://www.machinist.com/calculators/
[01:52:21] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: I can do that tomorrow.. need to test it as I do it, ok?
[01:52:30] <jmkasunich> sure
[01:53:14] <SWPadnos> actually, SFPM or SFM is the rate the cutting edge moves over the workpiece, regardless of the cutter type (saw, endmill, etc.)
[01:54:04] <Jymmm> I just couldn't understand why the word 'surface' was used - read it in a couple palces too.
[01:54:44] <SWPadnos> right - it's the tool moving over the surface
[01:55:55] <Jymmm> as opposed to whay, in/thru some material?
[01:55:58] <Jymmm> what
[01:57:19] <SWPadnos> no, as opposed to e.g. feedrate
[01:57:42] <Jymmm> huh?
[01:57:52] <SWPadnos> g1x10f100
[01:58:19] <SWPadnos> feed rate is 100, but the SFM is dependent on the tool speed and diameter
[01:58:20] <Jymmm> yeah, but that wouldn't be OPPOSED to feedrate, that would BE ffedrate.
[01:58:42] <SWPadnos> as opposed to, ie, "different from"
[01:58:43] <Jymmm> FEEDRATE UOM
[01:58:51] <SWPadnos> ?
[01:59:06] <Jymmm> Unit Of MEasure == IPM, FPM, etc
[01:59:16] <jmkasunich> feedrate is usually ipm
[01:59:20] <SWPadnos> right
[01:59:51] <Jymmm> so, ipm * 12 == FPM
[01:59:52] <SWPadnos> and tool rate is SFM, which is dependent on spindle RPM, and the tool diameter (and a little bit on the feed rate)
[01:59:59] <SWPadnos> ipm/12=FPM
[02:00:09] <Jymmm> err what SWPadnos said =)
[02:00:12] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:00:42] <Jymmm> ok so ipm/12==FPM, which is the same as SFPM ?
[02:01:15] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:01:54] <Jymmm> Ok, then why not just FPM instead of Surface FPM ?
[02:01:56] <SWPadnos> I disagree
[02:02:08] <SWPadnos> unless SFPM is different from SFM
[02:02:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos but is your disagreement justified or smartass?
[02:02:22] <SWPadnos> justified, I think
[02:02:30] <SWPadnos> I have no time for being a smartass tonight :(
[02:02:38] <Jymmm> bullshit! lol
[02:02:43] <SWPadnos> same to you
[02:03:08] <SWPadnos> the reason I say that is that the calculation is dependent on the spindle RPM and tool diameter
[02:03:19] <SWPadnos> the feedrate is used to set the depth of cut
[02:03:51] <Jymmm> hold your horses.... that is the FIRST time I've heard clipload mention depth
[02:04:10] <SWPadnos> sorry - I meant d\chipload
[02:04:16] <SWPadnos> err - just chipload
[02:04:38] <SWPadnos> you set depth f cut once you have feedrate and tool diameter, and it's based on the spindle horsepower
[02:04:48] <SWPadnos> back in a minute
[02:04:52] <Jymmm> so what your saying/thinking is 1/4" diameter endmill 1/2" into the material would be .5"
[02:05:45] <Jymmm> Surface Feet Per Minute (SFPM).
[02:05:45] <Jymmm> Linear velocity of the thermal spray gun as it traverses the length of the workpiece.
[02:05:45] <Jymmm> Also, the circumferential velocity of the substrate.
[02:06:14] <SWPadnos> ok, here's how you do it:
[02:06:28] <SWPadnos> 1) look up the "optimal" cutting speed in SFM (example, 100)
[02:06:47] <Jymmm> the chipload?
[02:06:48] <SWPadnos> 2) choose the tool you want to use, and get its radius (example, 1" tool, 0.5" radius)
[02:06:53] <SWPadnos> no - that's next
[02:07:04] <SWPadnos> there's a cutting speed, and there's chip thickness
[02:07:27] <SWPadnos> 3) calculate the necessary RPM to get the correct SFM with the chosen tool
[02:07:37] <Jymmm> http://www.owwm.com/Math/SFPM.asp
[02:07:57] <SWPadnos> sure - or the other one you linked to
[02:08:31] <fenn> Jymmm: thermal spray gun tutorial isn't the best way to understand the difference between sfpm and feedrate
[02:08:43] <Jymmm> fenn just waht google returned
[02:08:51] <fenn> ok
[02:09:24] <SWPadnos> anyway, the speed of this tool is pi*r = 1.57 inches / rev, or ~0.125 SFM / RPM
[02:09:36] <SWPadnos> with me so far?
[02:09:43] <Jymmm> think so, go on
[02:09:57] <SWPadnos> ok. remember step 1, where the SFM was looked up, and it's 100
[02:10:03] <Jymmm> k
[02:10:24] <SWPadnos> to get the required spindle RPM, divide desired by SFM/rev, and you get about 800 RPM spindle speed
[02:10:37] <SWPadnos> ... divide desired SFM by ...
[02:11:05] <Jymmm> OH! so SFPM is determining how fast (or how much) material I can feed thru it?
[02:11:23] <SWPadnos> now, we take chipload into account - asy 10 mils, so the feed rate needs to be 800 RPM * 0.01 inch / tooth * number of teeth (flutes)
[02:11:34] <SWPadnos> not quite ;)
[02:11:48] <jmkasunich> jymm - SFPM is how fast the cutting edge moving thru the material
[02:11:53] <fenn> if you go over the recommended SFPM the tool bit will overheat.. you might not be able to cut at the recommended sfpm because of other factors
[02:12:11] <SWPadnos> so if we have a 1", 4 flute cutter (should have mentioned that before) ;), we need 800 * 0.01 * 4 = 32 IPM feed rate
[02:12:56] <SWPadnos> the last thing to calculate is the depth of cut, which is dependent on spindle horsepower (and also on axis motor power, and tool strength)
[02:13:22] <SWPadnos> this is another thing to look up in the tables - the removal rate per horsepower for the material being cut
[02:13:28] <fenn> and machine rigidity..
[02:13:40] <SWPadnos> yep, but hopefully that isn't a problem ;)
[02:13:46] <fenn> well, it usually is a problem
[02:14:00] <jmkasunich> for just about any home shop machine it is the limiting factor
[02:14:11] <SWPadnos> so, from the tables, I think aluminum is 6 cubic inches per horsepower *at the tool*
[02:14:16] <SWPadnos> ok - fair enough
[02:14:23] <jmkasunich> I bet the average Bport takes HP limited cuts no more than 20% of the time
[02:14:42] <SWPadnos> could well be. I'd imagine that the tool strength also plays a part a lot of the time
[02:14:54] <jmkasunich> and spindle speed
[02:15:16] <jmkasunich> hard to take a 2HP cut with a 1/4" mill unless you spin it at 20K rpm
[02:15:23] <SWPadnos> yeah, but anyway - I'm not sure there is any way to calculate speeds based on machine rigidity, unless you use an FEA package
[02:15:51] <jmkasunich> speeds are by the book
[02:15:58] <jmkasunich> feed depends on rigidity
[02:16:12] <jmkasunich> there is a classic post on rec.crafts.metalworking on this topic, I'll find it
[02:16:15] <SWPadnos> speed and feed should be by the book, with depth being based on rigidity and HP
[02:16:31] <SWPadnos> because chipload is directly dependent on speed and feed
[02:16:43] <Jymmm> wouldn't depth have to do with tool as well?
[02:18:05] <jmkasunich> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/browse_thread/thread/8a2270dfeaa21096/c44d2304c2664a6e?lnk=st&q=bastow+dynamite+shift+cuppa+group%3Arec.crafts.metalworking&rnum=3&hl=en#c44d2304c2664a6e
[02:18:09] <fenn> jmk is probably thinking of this http://yarchive.net/metal/empirical_feed_rates.html
[02:18:14] <jmkasunich> gawd what a url
[02:18:43] <jmkasunich> yes - somebody saved it, great
[02:19:04] <fenn> i read that whole list of articles top to bottom one day
[02:19:15] <fenn> on yarchive.net
[02:19:45] <Jymmm> ~~~~~
[02:20:10] <jmkasunich> Jymm: read that article
[02:20:26] <Jymmm> jmkasunich will do.
[02:21:35] <Jymmm> I'm trying to understand the whole concept, chipload was questionable as it never accounted for depth, which threw me a curve. Once I 'get it' I want to create a calculator for it (maybe with the tables, but doubtful)
[02:22:15] <Jymmm> Cause right now... dougal fir can kiss my ass!
[02:22:20] <Jymmm> douglas
[02:22:30] <jmkasunich> read the article - it does an eloquent job of explaining why no calculator will ever replace experience and skill
[02:23:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich If I write a calculator, at least I'll know if I understand it all correctly.
[02:24:31] <Jymmm> I can machine mdf no problem, I can machine Ironwood no problem, but toss on douglas fir and shit hits the fan! So before I do anything else I want to figure out whats goin on here.
[02:25:51] <Jymmm> I'm suspecting the alternating densities in the grain are a factor
[02:26:28] <fenn> douglas fir is much more anisotropic than ironwood
[02:26:43] <fenn> ie. more grain in the wood
[02:27:14] <fenn> what problems are you having specifically?
[02:35:08] <Jymmm> fenn: Almost every singal time I've used douglas fir, the results are mucked up in one way or another... this time, chipouts and (best I could explain) gouges in certain areas.
[02:35:37] <fenn> are you climb milling?
[02:35:44] <fenn> up helix or down?
[02:36:13] <Jymmm> 1/2" 90 deg and 1/4" downcut
[02:36:19] <fenn> might try using a roughing endmill..
[02:38:03] <Jymmm> the 1/4" downcut is for peck drilling four holes, then to cutout the piece.
[02:39:15] <Jymmm> like this http://static.flickr.com/18/68122545_7ae2b17d59_m.jpg
[02:39:31] <Jymmm> 12"x6"
[02:41:10] <fenn> that looks nice
[02:41:27] <fenn> not enough detail to see any problems though
[02:41:50] <fenn> what's the blob inside the "o"
[02:42:08] <Jymmm> my thumbprint in the paint
[02:42:11] <Jymmm> =)
[02:42:22] <Jymmm> a bug landed on the piece when it was drying
[02:42:37] <alex_joni> night all
[02:42:42] <Jymmm> G'night alex_joni
[02:43:32] <Jymmm> larger http://static.flickr.com/18/68122545_7ae2b17d59_o.jpg
[02:44:05] <Jymmm> mucked up in douglas --> http://static.flickr.com/31/68122546_d54054ffe1_o.jpg
[02:48:42] <fenn> interesting burn marks
[02:48:48] <fenn> or is that stain?
[02:52:37] <Jymmm> that's stain
[02:52:48] <Jymmm> I clearcoat, then carve, then stain
[02:53:08] <Jymmm> it's to help contrast the piece
[02:53:51] <Jymmm> this might be a better example http://static.flickr.com/35/68122547_7d6160cf29.jpg
[03:01:24] <Jymmm> http://static.flickr.com/34/101009611_3962bf3dfe.jpg
[03:10:43] <fenn> jymmm try more cutter flutes or do a roughing pass first
[03:11:10] <Jymmm> what's a 'roughing pass'?
[03:11:27] <Jymmm> I'm using two flute downcut right now.
[03:12:51] <fenn> roughing means to cut out most of the material in the first pass then shave off the last bit on the final pass
[03:13:25] <fenn> i think the real problem is that you're using V bits and so you cant do climb milling
[03:15:03] <Jymmm> It's jsut strange, I can't put my finger on anything specific, but with any other species it's fine, just hates douglas! lol
[03:15:16] <Jymmm> the problems are never the same.
[03:16:10] <fenn> maybe the wood was cured improperly
[03:16:40] <Jymmm> This has been other 4 months and at least 5 different batches of wood.
[03:16:48] <Jymmm> s/other/over/
[03:17:08] <Jymmm> I always buy extra b/c it seems to always muck up.
[03:19:58] <Jymmm> fenn: This turned out very nice (cause it aint douglas - LOL) http://static.flickr.com/34/101009611_3962bf3dfe.jpg?v=0
[03:22:35] <fenn> i see some wobblies around the corners and at the top/bottom of letters
[03:23:34] <fenn> and i dont see what's wrong with the ruth & tom one, except maybe depth is too low
[03:24:10] <Jymmm> ruth & tom is only 1/2" thick
[03:24:49] <fenn> you measured the thickness of the piece right?
[03:24:54] <Jymmm> yeah =)
[03:25:21] <fenn> actually it looks like it's bending upwards in the middle
[03:25:36] <fenn> see how the radius of the cutter is larger in the middle of the board than at the edges?
[03:26:13] <Jymmm> in which sign?
[03:26:19] <Jymmm> R&S ?
[03:26:24] <fenn> the stained ruth & tom
[03:27:36] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmm
[03:28:22] <Jymmmm> I think that one is just a fluke, especially if you compatre it to the solver version, which is what it should have been.
[03:28:33] <Jymmmm> silver
[03:28:37] <Jymmmm> compare
[03:28:55] <Jymmmm> oh hell, just run everything type thru a translater
[03:28:56] <Jymmmm> or
[03:29:00] <Jymmmm> oh hell, just run everything type thru a translator
[03:29:21] <fenn> i think they call those spellcheckers
[03:29:44] <Jymmmm> I just call em typos
[03:29:54] <fenn> yah
[03:31:35] <fenn> how do you get a square internal corner? like on the end of the cross-bar of a lower-case t
[03:31:57] <fenn> i know the cam software does it, but i wanna understand how the bit moves to make that shape
[03:31:58] <Jymmmm> stained R&T ?
[03:32:13] <fenn> it looks more square on the silver one
[03:32:30] <fenn> the t in "Ruth"
[03:32:37] <jmkasunich> probably lifts the V tool as it comes out of the corner
[03:32:48] <jmkasunich> so the cut gets narrower and narrower,
[03:33:20] <fenn> but it doesnt get narrower, and the bottom looks v shaped still
[03:33:34] <fenn> does it have to move up/down twice to make the two corners?
[03:33:38] <Jymmmm> fenn hold on....
[03:34:01] <fenn> Jymmmm: if you could show me a toolpath for a lowercase "t" it would be niec
[03:35:06] <Jymmmm> fenn http://static.flickr.com/41/101020064_9c3aa8cdfb_o.jpg
[03:36:39] <fenn> could you paste the gcode somewhere?
[03:37:26] <Jymmmm> I have to remember what font face I used first =)
[03:38:45] <Jymmmm> gimme a few, search for the file(s)
[03:39:21] <fenn> ok, brb
[03:52:33] <Jymmmm> ah.... TNR if the font
[03:53:55] <fenn> yeah toast
[03:54:20] <Jymmmm> Times New Romain
[03:54:22] <Jymmmm> Roman
[03:55:19] <Jymmmm> 2" tall 't' http://pastebin.com/560650
[03:55:25] <Jymmmm> fenn ^^^
[03:55:28] <fenn> * fenn was away toasting toast
[03:56:03] <Jymmmm> thanks folks!
[03:56:23] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm is being dragged happily by the gf to watch a movie!
[03:56:25] <Jymmmm> bbl
[03:56:43] <fenn> thanks jymmm
[03:56:46] <fenn> m
[04:33:52] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: RIP should only find configs in its own tree
[05:20:04] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk-sleep
[05:22:15] <fenn__> dernit
[05:45:59] <Jymmmm> fenn ?
[05:46:16] <fenn> sorry xchat is being dumb
[05:46:20] <Jymmmm> ah
[05:46:43] <fenn> i was playing around with japanese character set encodings and it doesnt listen to my auto-join preferences
[05:46:44] <Jymmmm> Saw 2 is AWESOME! But if you havne't seen Saw, be sure to watch it first!
[05:46:54] <fenn> uh, ok
[05:47:12] <fenn> s/Saw/Azumi/
[05:47:52] <Jymmmm> http://www.sawmovie.com/ and http://www.saw2.com/
[05:49:46] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[05:50:16] <Jymmm> fenn were you able to extract what you wanted to know from that gcode?
[05:50:25] <fenn> yeah
[05:50:37] <Jymmm> what was that (specifically)?
[05:50:52] <fenn> how it did the square corners
[05:51:10] <Jymmm> and what is it doing?
[05:51:12] <fenn> the path has little "Y" branches at the end to cut a square corner
[05:51:23] <Jymmm> ah ok
[05:51:53] <Jymmm> so it's just tapering upwards
[05:52:09] <Jymmm> giving the illusion of squareness
[05:52:30] <Jymmm> ?
[05:52:31] <fenn> well it actually is square in 2D
[05:53:34] <Jymmm> you're talking the right side of the line, correct?
[05:53:57] <fenn> it actually does it on all the edges, but your depth is set wrong or something
[05:54:06] <fenn> or maybe they're slightly rounded corners
[05:54:16] <Jymmm> looks rounded to me =)
[05:54:25] <Jymmm> http://static.flickr.com/41/101020064_9c3aa8cdfb.jpg
[05:54:55] <fenn> well you can never make a corner sharper than the radius at the top of the V bit
[05:55:01] <fenn> tip*
[05:56:33] <Jymmm> I'm suspecting it's the cam that's doing that
[06:00:55] <Jymmm> I guess your 'square' corners are just a v tip running around the edge of a square would reproduce the same results.
[06:03:20] <fenn> yeah but not in one pass
[06:03:28] <fenn> and it wouldn't look as nice
[06:03:51] <Jymmm> If I had used a 1/16" 90 deg tip it would
[06:04:01] <Jymmm> but I was using a 1/2"
[06:04:32] <fenn> you could go over it again with the 1/16" bit after the 1/2" bit
[06:07:00] <Jymmm> Think about it... a 1" square and you machine on the lines with a v cutter then clear out the insides would appear like a square
[06:08:09] <fenn> but it would be fugly
[06:08:45] <fenn> you only need to touch up the corners
[06:09:05] <fenn> if you do more than that youre gonna have places where the finishing pass doesn't line up perfectly with the roughing pass
[06:10:31] <fenn> square corners are overrated anyway
[06:11:19] <Jymmm> oh, is THAT why you wanted the gcode =)
[06:14:30] <fenn> i wanted the gcode because i'm planning on writing some cam software
[06:14:54] <Jymmm> lol, ah ok
[06:14:57] <fenn> the same algorithm does square corners as well as lines of various widths
[06:15:24] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[08:05:43] <alpha1125> alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[11:52:21] <ValarQ_> ValarQ_ is now known as ValarQ
[11:56:51] <alex_joni> morning captain
[11:59:51] <ValarQ> g'day
[11:59:59] <alex_joni> food time.. brb
[12:22:09] <alex_joni> back
[12:33:24] <Jymmm> http://media.putfile.com/assbeating
[13:51:36] <Jymmm> mornin A-L-P-H-A
[13:56:01] <A-L-P-H-A> morning
[16:49:46] <skunkworks> morning
[16:55:52] <jepler> hi skunkworks
[16:57:00] <jepler> I think I've almost got my ubuntu system working like I want (key shortcuts and such)
[16:57:03] <skunkworks> morning
[16:57:49] <skunkworks> have not gotten into changing things around - looks very user friendly for non linux users like me.
[16:58:02] <skunkworks> I like being able to click on the emc2 icon ;)
[16:58:46] <skunkworks> and also being able to drag it to the desktop
[16:59:18] <jepler> yeah, cradek's packages make it all very convenient
[16:59:28] <skunkworks> very
[16:59:53] <skunkworks> and then automatic updates.. My father will love that.
[17:01:51] <skunkworks> do you have over 1gb to put in that thing for shits and giggles?
[17:02:32] <jepler> I actually have a 2GB "server", and right now I'm installing ubuntu inside qemu (PC emulator) specifically to test with more than 1GB RAM
[17:02:45] <skunkworks> cool
[17:02:53] <jepler> I hear cradek has a test that very quickly blows up on your stem?
[17:02:56] <jepler> er, system
[17:03:27] <skunkworks> yes if there is over 1gb mememory - when we went back to 1gb it ran fine
[17:03:39] <jepler> though the installer (running with 900 megs RAM) just gave me a biarre error...
[17:03:51] <jepler> some package (it wouldn't tell me which one) didn't install right, it said
[17:04:03] <skunkworks> for emc or ubuntu?
[17:04:11] <jepler> for ubuntu
[17:04:21] <jepler> I'm still working on getting the base install done
[17:07:03] <skunkworks> odd - the only issue on an older machine is the cd drive couldn't read the burned cd - at about 80% of the final install ;)
[17:07:29] <skunkworks> I bunrned one slower and it worked fine. It didn't go on with the install at that point.
[17:12:08] <skunkworks> oh - I did have one lock up at 71 percent when it was trying to configure the x-windows if I remember right. it was the old stb video card I had in it - replaced it with a matrox and it installed fully
[17:12:28] <skunkworks> boy over the last few days I have installed it quite a few times ;)
[17:14:12] <skunkworks> did you read that I had installed it on 2 differnt machines and they both didn't work with memory over 1gb?
[17:14:32] <skunkworks> the only thing the same was they where both pentium 4's
[17:14:48] <skunkworks> both worked just fine with 1gb or less
[17:14:57] <cradek> hi all
[17:15:02] <skunkworks> morning
[17:15:12] <jepler> I haven't paid attention to all the details, but cradek has told me some things
[17:15:19] <cradek> the latest pattern I identified is if there's >1G *and* realtime is loaded (and even after it's loaded and removed) the system is unstable.
[17:15:55] <cradek> before realtime is loaded, the system is fine.
[17:16:14] <skunkworks> interesting ,-been saying that a lot recently
[17:16:56] <cradek> I'll try to reproduce it here today.
[17:17:25] <skunkworks> neet
[17:17:56] <cradek> rayh suggests we fix it by saving money on ram, or putting it in a nearby windows machine that needs it
[17:19:06] <skunkworks> funny.
[17:19:24] <skunkworks> or send it to him?
[17:19:49] <cradek> no, I think he was somewhat serious - no machine dedicated to emc needs anywhere near that much ram...
[17:20:12] <cradek> so in all seriousness that's a possible solution I have in mind if something else doesn't pan out (it's a rtai bug for instance)
[17:20:17] <skunkworks> right - it just happend that the machine I was testing had over 1gb
[17:20:22] <cradek> yeah
[17:20:51] <cradek> I could easily make the -magma kernel ignore everything over 1G - that would let it run reliably on any machine.
[17:20:58] <skunkworks> can you set the memory size the real time uses?
[17:21:16] <skunkworks> kiss solution
[17:21:49] <cradek> crap, as I was afraid, my good machine has only two memory sockets
[17:22:29] <cradek> crap, as I was afraid, BOTH of my machines have only two memory sockets
[17:22:45] <skunkworks> so my machine is still running?
[17:22:48] <cradek> yes
[17:22:50] <skunkworks> cool
[17:24:03] <cradek> yeah, it's fine
[17:24:26] <skunkworks> jmk was in last night wondering what you had found. He was supriesed.
[17:25:18] <skunkworks> I forgot to thank him for the work he did on the base_period issue. EMC2 is running great now.
[17:25:48] <skunkworks> unbelievable compared to when I first started playing with it.
[17:26:07] <cradek> yeah I'm glad he found that problem.
[17:26:54] <skunkworks> I was able to run that computer you are playing with at a period of .00002 and axis was smooth and usable.
[17:27:07] <skunkworks> with 1gb in it ;)
[17:52:06] <Jymmm> emc2 still cvs only?
[18:03:33] <rayh> Jymmm, There is a deb for ubuntu breezy
[18:08:58] <Jymmm> breezy being the latest?
[18:09:09] <skunkworks> hey ray - could you explain your static ip address problem? That is how I setup ubuntu at work (we don't have a dhcp server so I have to give ubuntu a internal ip)
[18:09:47] <skunkworks> (thinking about it as I was drifting off to sleep ;)
[18:10:18] <skunkworks> jymmm - the ubunto with cradeks install script for emc2 is painless.
[18:10:52] <skunkworks> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
[18:12:40] <skunkworks> must have installed it 5 or more times on 3 differnt computers over the last few days with only the 1gb limit issue. (no problems with the installs)
[18:13:24] <Jymmm> Um, it there were no issues, why was it installed 5 times?
[18:13:34] <Jymmm> =)
[18:14:00] <cradek> skunkworks: if it doesn't find a network interface at install time, it doesn't enable the network apt repositories. ray set up the network interface later, so he had to enable the network repositories afterward.
[18:14:21] <skunkworks> we where trying to figure out what was going on with one of my computer - emc2 would not run
[18:14:31] <rayh> The static IP problem was simply a failure to uncomment the package directories in /etc/apt/sources.list
[18:14:35] <skunkworks> it ended up being an issue with over 1gb limit
[18:15:21] <skunkworks> ah - when it doesn't see the dhcp server I just set it up manually at that point - so I didn't have a problem I suppose
[18:15:27] <rayh> Since the installer did not get assigned a dhcp addy it said that it wasn't connected.
[18:15:34] <cradek> https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2006-February/014119.html
[18:15:43] <cradek> hey look at this
[18:15:47] <skunkworks> (it give an option to set the ip addressses up manually during the install
[18:16:02] <rayh> Nope. Just go into the sources list and fix em by hand or with synaptic.
[18:16:36] <rayh> Then when you are connected to the outside world, issue apt-get update and you should see all the stuff you need.
[18:17:01] <Jymmm> cradek: Whats the ogo stuff to mit for?
[18:17:03] <Jymmm> pgp
[18:17:08] <rayh> Yes. That is how I assigned my box to my net but it still didn't fix the apt stuff.
[18:17:21] <cradek> Jymmm: what??
[18:17:37] <skunkworks> what I am saying is that durning my install - it didn't see the dhpc server so it let me set up the ip address/gateway and dns server manually. I didn't have issues with that.
[18:17:44] <Jymmm> cradek : gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-key BC92B87F
[18:18:07] <cradek> Jymmm: I don't understand the question
[18:18:37] <Jymmm> cradek Didn't you write this --> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/ubuntu/emc2-install.sh
[18:18:42] <cradek> yes
[18:18:56] <Jymmm> cradek: Why does it contain pgp/gpg stuff?
[18:18:56] <cradek> but I can't parse your question "whats the ogo stuff to mit for?"
[18:19:23] <cradek> because the apt repository is signed by me, so you know you're getting valid packages
[18:19:35] <rayh> cradek, I was looking at the gnome Yelp help stuff.
[18:19:46] <Jymmm> cradek ah, ok =)
[18:19:58] <cradek> that key BC92... is my public key
[18:20:10] <cradek> rayh: what's that?
[18:20:32] <Jymmm> cradek: np, just wasn't aware you were signing is all
[18:20:36] <rayh> It's the program behind the help icon on the top bar.
[18:21:20] <cradek> rayh: ah
[18:21:47] <cradek> rayh: what are your thoughts?
[18:22:09] <rayh> The ubuntu FAQ Guide that displays there is a complete "docbook" book.
[18:22:37] <rayh> XML of course but we can create that from LyX.
[18:24:02] <rayh> This might give use the chance in emc2.2 to add emc, hal, cl documentation without any additional programs.
[18:24:23] <rayh> And not a lot of additional writing.
[18:24:38] <cradek> do you think it's better than using html?
[18:25:15] <cradek> I'd be really hesitant if it means we are tied to having a particular desktop environment in order to read our help
[18:25:40] <rayh> The advantage with Yelp is that you get a tree display along with the linked text and images.
[18:25:58] <cradek> I agree the tree is nice
[18:26:32] <cradek> hypertext, images, etc. come with html, but a tree is harder
[18:26:42] <rayh> If all we have to do is export a lyx file as docbook it would make nice docs for ubuntu easy.
[18:27:09] <rayh> I'll play with it when I get the chance.
[18:27:21] <cradek> our lyx files are in outline format (1.1 1.2 1.2.1 etc)?
[18:27:30] <cradek> if that would turn into a tree it'd be very slick
[18:27:51] <rayh> It will also display man (troff)
[18:29:07] <rayh> morning roltek
[18:33:37] <skunkworks> cradek :https://mail.rtai.org/pipermail/rtai/2006-February/014119.html Kinda close - has your idea for a fix.
[18:57:10] <rayh> I made a halcmd.1.gz and stuffed it in /usr/share/man/man1
[18:57:19] <rayh> and Yelp displays it.
[18:57:24] <cradek> neat
[18:57:46] <rayh> along with all the other man stuff.
[18:57:52] <cradek> you should stick the man page in cvs, and we'll get it into the distribution
[18:58:10] <rayh> It is in the distro in emc2/docs
[18:58:23] <cradek> ok
[18:58:26] <rayh> man/man1
[18:59:03] <rayh> Could we automate that with the make install?
[18:59:06] <cradek> cool, I didn't know we had that
[18:59:08] <cradek> yes
[18:59:23] <cradek> I'm working on rtai right now though
[18:59:36] <cradek> don't let me forget
[18:59:38] <rayh> Yelp even lists it just like any other.
[18:59:48] <rayh> np I'll bug you from time to time.
[19:00:42] <rayh> I suspect that jmk wrote it by hand in troff format.
[19:23:09] <Jymmm> If anyone cares --> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=36196
[19:42:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, how are you pear.php?
[19:47:59] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/halcmd.1: Added EMC to title to clarify withLinux HAL
[19:59:10] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: *I* don't use/trust pear personally.
[19:59:25] <A-L-P-H-A> trust, why not?
[19:59:30] <A-L-P-H-A> strange.
[19:59:36] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: none of the code is audited
[19:59:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm trying to learn db_objects, for rapid form generation.
[19:59:55] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, so make your own login script, and only allow trusted users.
[20:00:17] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A heh, theres more to it than JUST login
[20:00:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I know.
[20:00:41] <A-L-P-H-A> argh. fuck it.
[20:00:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I just want to learn how to use db_object so I can use the quick form generator.
[20:01:02] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A If I knew and trust the person who write it, that's another story.
[20:01:07] <SWPadnos> use Paradox
[20:01:20] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, huh?
[20:01:36] <SWPadnos> Borland / Corel's database
[20:02:00] <SWPadnos> load up a database, hit F8, and get a nice form, including chile tables
[20:02:03] <SWPadnos> child
[20:02:04] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A db_object doesn't even show up in a search
[20:02:31] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://pear.php.net/search.php?q=db_object&in=packages
[20:02:33] <A-L-P-H-A> no. it's full name is.
[20:02:42] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.db-dataobject.php
[20:02:55] <A-L-P-H-A> package I'm trying to use is. http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.db-dataobject-formbuilder.php
[20:05:32] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A and you have all this? http://opensource.21st.de/18.html
[20:06:16] <A-L-P-H-A> yup
[20:06:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still on the issue of setting up the ... <sec>
[20:07:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still on the issue of setting up the ... DSN....
[20:07:11] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pear.php.net/manual/en/package.database.db-dataobject.intro-configuration.php
[20:07:17] <A-L-P-H-A> documentation here SUCKS ass.
[20:07:19] <Jymmm> http://opensource.21st.de/16.html
[20:07:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I'm using it as reference now.
[20:07:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't have an proper INI file setup.
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> lol, click on 'generating forms'
[20:07:56] <A-L-P-H-A> which is what I'm having troubles with. :)
[20:10:10] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I dun know man... I think you would have better luck removing and replacing you eyeballs than mucking with pear.
[20:10:17] <Jymmm> =)
[20:10:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Okay... I finally can connet to the DB via PEAR
[20:37:13] <jmk-sleep> jmk-sleep is now known as jmkasunich
[21:09:37] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Read the old posting last night =)
[21:12:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: My 'chipload calculator' was more of an applied understanding of speeds and feeds than an absolute environment thing =)
[21:37:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: use a nice truetype font instead of scaled bitmaps.
[21:47:05] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/module_helper/Submakefile: MODULE_EXT needs to be defined unconditionally
[21:48:19] <cradek> hi skunkworks
[21:48:27] <skunkworks> Hi - whats up?
[21:48:28] <cradek> I found reference to a problem with 1G that was fixed in rtai-3.3
[21:48:40] <alex_joni> hi samco
[21:48:50] <skunkworks> rtai-3.3 - what version does emc2 use?
[21:48:50] <cradek> so I built a new rtai-3.3 package but that does not fix your machine.
[21:49:02] <alex_joni> skunkworks: all of them ;)
[21:49:02] <cradek> it was rtai-3.3-test4, a 3.3 prerelease.
[21:49:54] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I've run rtai-24.1.11, 24.1.12, 24.1.13, 3.0, 3.0-test1, 3.1 and 3.2 (and now on ubuntu the 3.3?)
[21:50:13] <skunkworks> wow
[21:50:29] <alex_joni> but that's in 2 years
[21:50:37] <alex_joni> I didn't like it at all ;)
[21:50:42] <skunkworks> that link that you sent made it sound like 1gb was a problem - not more or less. maybe I read that wrong
[21:50:44] <alex_joni> they all use different schemes to compile
[21:50:53] <cradek> it does say that.
[21:51:00] <cradek> I thought it might be related anyway.
[21:51:12] <skunkworks> right
[21:51:16] <cradek> I'm not sure we've tested enough to be positive what our pattern is.
[21:52:13] <skunkworks> you where trying to get 1gb in your machine - not posible with 2 slots?
[21:53:00] <cradek> I was trying to get 1.5, no not possible
[21:53:07] <cradek> I can get 1
[21:53:14] <Jymmm> cradek go for 2gb =)
[21:53:16] <alex_joni> and 2
[21:53:25] <cradek> I can't, I only have 512 modules
[21:53:28] <skunkworks> jepler I think was also going to try it on one of his machines that has like 2gb
[21:53:33] <alex_joni> ahh..
[21:57:30] <skunkworks> I don't think it was me ;).. it did it on 2 machines with isn't the greatest test.
[21:57:43] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: NEWS update
[22:00:41] <skunkworks> jmk - forgot to thank you last night - The fix you did to the period (going by clock cycles) really seems to have sped emc2 up. thank you
[22:00:54] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[22:01:25] <jmkasunich> of course, it was me who added the original timing code that slowed it down, so..... ;-)
[22:01:50] <skunkworks> it worked fine for a while ;)
[22:02:09] <alex_joni> skunkworks: it worked fine 80% of the time
[22:02:15] <jmkasunich> yeah, the timing code was disabled for a long time
[22:02:15] <LawrenceG> cradek: The requested URL /cradek-files/truetype/ttt_2.0.tar.gz was not found on this server.
[22:02:17] <alex_joni> but sometimes it worked very bad ;)
[22:02:27] <LawrenceG> cradek: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/truetype/ttt_2.0.tar.gz was the full url
[22:02:34] <jmkasunich> then cradek asked about detection of RT overruns, and I started trying to get the timing stuff to work
[22:02:45] <cradek> oh sure it's my fault
[22:02:56] <cradek> LawrenceG: oops, checking
[22:03:00] <jmkasunich> yep, its cradek's fault
[22:03:08] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: without remembering why you abandoned it last time ;)
[22:03:09] <skunkworks> you seem to have got it - I was running a period of .00002 and it was very usable.
[22:03:15] <LawrenceG> cradek: np... deb works ok
[22:03:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs to try this now..
[22:03:38] <alex_joni> last time I ran it I was at 0.000025 without the speed improvement ;)
[22:03:42] <cradek> LawrenceG: fixed
[22:03:43] <cradek> LawrenceG: thanks
[22:03:55] <LawrenceG> cradek: cheers
[22:04:09] <cradek> LawrenceG: _ vs -
[22:04:09] <skunkworks> alex - on how fast of a machine
[22:04:52] <alex_joni> Centrino 1.4Ghz, running at 800Mhz for some strange reason ;)
[22:05:20] <alex_joni> probably because ACPI is not enabled to tell the processor what speed it should use
[22:05:26] <skunkworks> ah
[22:06:21] <skunkworks> ok - I have to go again. working on the basement. will be back later. cradek - so you think it is a rtai problem?
[22:06:37] <alex_joni> we all do sam ;)
[22:06:44] <skunkworks> ;)
[22:06:58] <cradek> skunkworks: yes, but I wish I could do more extensive testing to be sure.
[22:07:51] <skunkworks> like people have mentioned (ray) that running >1gb for an emc machine is odd. But people will.
[22:08:02] <cradek> yes
[22:08:18] <cradek> the "fix" might be to ignore ram over 1G (it's a kernel config option)
[22:09:02] <alex_joni> cradek: wonder what changing the 1/3 G to something like 2/2G would do
[22:09:25] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't know what you mean
[22:09:56] <alex_joni> well, as far as I understand it linux mem.management works like this:
[22:10:09] <alex_joni> there is a 1G address space for system, and 3G for user stuff
[22:10:38] <alex_joni> otoh if you have physical ram more than 1G the stuff outside will get mapped into system address space first, and used afterwards
[22:11:05] <alex_joni> this probably works ok for the kernel & everything above it, but rtai might not have a clue about those address changes
[22:11:28] <alex_joni> gosh I hope you can really make something out from my poor explanation
[22:20:18] <skunkworks> cradek - some time next week if you want to get into my workstation that is doing the same thing we could.
[22:23:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile:
[22:23:57] <CIA-8> gene had a problem on bdi where sudo empties $PWD at the sudo make setuid
[22:23:57] <CIA-8> step of rip build. Maybe this will fix it.
[22:26:16] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, figured it out.
[22:40:08] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/TODO: added to TODO
[22:49:09] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A what was it?
[22:49:47] <alex_joni> it was wrong
[22:50:57] <Jymmm> When you do rough/finish pass... is it typical to use a different tool?
[22:52:08] <Jymmm> or just to alter the feed/speed?
[22:52:22] <cradek> Jymmm: often you use a smaller tool for finish
[22:52:55] <Jymmm> or more flutes?
[22:53:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, oh the whole... I figured it out... well the basics.
[22:53:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Ah, ok.
[22:53:42] <A-L-P-H-A> not the advanced stuff, like foreign key groking.
[22:53:50] <A-L-P-H-A> which I'm about to sign up for.
[22:54:03] <Jymmm> sign up?
[22:54:24] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/debian/control: new vti stuff requires this
[22:54:51] <Jymmm> I was asking because I'm doin a lot of v-carving, so using a different tool doesn't always apply.
[22:55:11] <Jymmm> but fenn mentioned somethign about it last night.
[23:04:53] <A-L-P-H-A> sign up for a newsletter thing
[23:09:53] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (hal_vti.c hal_vti.h): intial comit for the VTI driver written by Eric H. Johnson, I ran the files through dos2unix, and started to fix some compile errors, lots more to come.
[23:12:06] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/Makefile.inc.in: adde VTI to the list of possible drivers. for now set to 'n' because it doesn't compile, and it will break the whole build
[23:13:33] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/Makefile: added VTI driver to the Makefile. to enable it, edit Makefile.inc.in
[23:24:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm on sentimental idiot. itunes is on Random songs... and it's hitting songs that I used to listen with my exGFs... kinda an odd feeling.
[23:25:28] <Jymmm> time to block those it sounds