#emc | Logs for 2006-02-15

[00:00:18] <cradek> argh, I just fixed most of those same things
[00:00:29] <cradek> but of course jepler's looks better anyway
[00:01:12] <cradek> except I'm not so sure about that dark background
[00:01:19] <jepler> cradek: oops
[00:01:30] <jepler> cradek: you mean the background of the "description" area?
[00:01:35] <cradek> yeah
[00:01:41] <jepler> change it back if you feel strongly
[00:02:03] <jepler> here's my logic, such as it was: that text is descriptive and not editable, just like the labels at the top of the page
[00:02:23] <cradek> yeah, I can sure see that
[00:02:33] <cradek> how about the same color, instead of darker?
[00:03:25] <jepler> oh, they're not the same color for you?
[00:03:33] <cradek> no, not even close
[00:03:37] <jepler> huh
[00:03:55] <jepler> can you tell me the rgb values you are seeing?
[00:04:16] <jepler> for me, it's all #d9d9d9
[00:04:17] <cradek> d9d9 d9d9 d9d9 in the text box
[00:04:32] <cradek> eaea e8e8 e3e3 elsewhere
[00:04:52] <jepler> huh
[00:04:53] <jepler> that's not even grey
[00:05:27] <cradek> *Button.activeBackground:#eae8e3
[00:05:27] <cradek> *Label.background:#eae8e3
[00:05:34] <cradek> something stuck a bunch of crap in my X resources
[00:05:45] <cradek> thanks gnome
[00:05:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: don't hand-code the color of text widget.
[00:05:57] <cradek> *background:#eae8e3
[00:06:07] <jepler> now they're still the same color on my system; on yours, maybe they match now
[00:06:23] <cradek> yes
[00:07:02] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[00:07:27] <cradek> I see the text widget is -relief flat, but it's definitely sunken on my screen
[00:07:43] <cradek> unless I don't know what flat means
[00:08:08] <jepler> cradek: the -flat on the text widget itself is there so that the sunken relief (of the scrolledwindow) goes around the text *and* the scrollbar
[00:08:15] <jepler> cradek: Maybe it should be flat, though
[00:08:35] <cradek> right, I see
[00:09:57] <cradek> when I change it to flat, I get an otherworldly white line around it
[00:10:14] <cradek> so forget it, it's fine sunken
[00:10:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: remove debug output
[00:12:36] <jepler> oops
[00:35:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: show OK button as default
[00:52:08] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[00:52:08] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-15#T00-52-08
[01:37:10] <robin_z> meep?
[01:38:11] <cradek> hey
[01:38:16] <robin_z> dood
[01:38:34] <robin_z> so, whats new?
[01:38:44] <cradek> oh I dunno
[01:38:51] <cradek> a hundred things in emc
[01:38:55] <robin_z> kew;
[01:38:57] <cradek> a dozen things in axis
[01:38:57] <robin_z> kewl
[01:39:34] <jepler> skunkworks: any chance to try axis 1.1.1 again?
[01:39:42] <robin_z> I keep wondering whats the best way to automate this sheet loader
[01:40:02] <robin_z> its a PLC and motion sort of task I guess
[01:41:14] <skunkworks> I have not had a chance yet - within the next few days
[01:41:38] <skunkworks> jepler:
[01:44:00] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc: remove debug output
[02:34:25] <cradek> new emc2, emc2-dev ubuntu packages in the repository
[02:34:36] <Jymmm> ububtu?!
[02:35:40] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
[02:52:10] <cradek> hi john
[02:52:15] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:52:39] <cradek> new emc2, emc2-dev ubuntu packages in the repository
[02:53:02] <cradek> I'm tempted to move the TESTING tag, since I tested and made packages
[02:53:04] <jmkasunich> I didn't get the little "update" ballon when I booted just now
[02:53:05] <cradek> what do you think?
[02:53:17] <cradek> I think it only polls once in a while
[02:53:23] <cradek> run the update manager and hit refresh
[02:53:26] <jmkasunich> go ahead - I thought about doing it to catch the version stuff that was added yesterday
[02:53:37] <cradek> also my halcmd changes
[02:54:00] <jmkasunich> stand by one
[02:54:24] <jmkasunich> want to test that
[02:54:31] <cradek> please do
[02:55:05] <jmkasunich> its important to me that halcmd loadrt work outside the emc environment
[02:55:21] <jmkasunich> to date it has relied on emc.run to set HAL_RTMOD_DIR
[02:55:31] <jmkasunich> I'm hoping module_helper gets around that
[02:55:40] <jmkasunich> and if not, maybe we can figure out how to do it
[02:55:43] <cradek> no I don't think it changes that
[02:55:49] <jmkasunich> bummer
[02:56:06] <cradek> the module helper is only a replacement for insmod/rmmod; it has no idea where files are
[02:56:10] <jmkasunich> the update ballon just popped up ;-)
[02:56:23] <jmkasunich> but it does - the whitelist
[02:56:55] <cradek> the whitelist is not specific enough for that today, but SMOP
[02:57:32] <cradek> I hate to add complexity to it though; it's setuid, has been audited, and is fully functional
[02:57:55] <jmkasunich> well somehow or another it just worked
[02:58:05] <cradek> the complexity for knowing where everything is and shuffling paths around belongs outside the setuid code
[02:58:50] <jmkasunich> did a run-in-place build, scripts/realtime start, bin/halcmd loadrt threads
[02:58:53] <jmkasunich> and it worked fine
[02:59:27] <jmkasunich> or maybe thats the existing "if the env var isn't set, try to figure it out" code working
[02:59:29] <cradek> looks like it does some crazyass things with /proc/self if the env is not there
[02:59:34] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:59:42] <jmkasunich> I'm guilty of those things
[02:59:44] <cradek> that must be what saved you
[02:59:50] <jmkasunich> but I thought they were busted
[02:59:56] <jmkasunich> certainly are busted for installed
[03:00:03] <cradek> yes
[03:00:30] <cradek> you could now compile in the path to rtlib. you have all the information you need.
[03:00:31] <jmkasunich> ok, we have a configure script and makefile that are aware of whether we're building RIP or install
[03:00:38] <cradek> right
[03:00:41] <jmkasunich> yes, thats where I was going
[03:00:59] <jmkasunich> but how? I sure don't want halcmd.c.in
[03:01:10] <cradek> just follow my example for EMC2_BIN_DIR
[03:01:12] <jmkasunich> duh
[03:01:25] <cradek> but before you do this, do we move TESTING?
[03:01:35] <jmkasunich> -DEMC2_BIN_DIR in the makefile?
[03:01:39] <cradek> yes
[03:01:56] <jmkasunich> if this is a simple fix, I'd like to have it part of the new TESTING
[03:02:15] <jmkasunich> also, seems like -D might be the way to get EMC2_VERSION into C code as well
[03:02:20] <cradek> ok
[03:02:35] <jmkasunich> or should we "just shoot the engineer and ship the product"
[03:02:35] <cradek> alex said he knows how to do that correctly (config.h) and we should wait for him
[03:02:44] <jmkasunich> fair enough
[03:02:51] <cradek> he said today he will do it when he gets home
[03:02:55] <jmkasunich> go ahead and move TESTING
[03:03:26] <jmkasunich> and set VERSION to "Testing 2006-02-14" or something like that
[03:03:39] <jmkasunich> also: set another tag, TESTING-2006-02-14
[03:03:59] <jmkasunich> that way when TESTING moves, we'll still be able to checkout this particular one if needed
[03:04:12] <jmkasunich> heh, we need a release checklist
[03:04:14] <cradek> I dunno, these tags are going to accumulate fast if we do that
[03:04:32] <jmkasunich> yeah...
[03:04:39] <jmkasunich> but tags are free, as far as I can tell
[03:04:58] <jmkasunich> is there anyplace were a proliferation of them will get messy?
[03:05:10] <cradek> cvs log
[03:05:12] <cradek> maybe webcvs
[03:05:21] <jmkasunich> webcvs yes
[03:05:37] <jmkasunich> ok, forget what I said about a special tag
[03:05:42] <jmkasunich> after all, the version contains the date
[03:05:49] <cradek> that's true
[03:05:58] <jmkasunich> except
[03:06:16] <jmkasunich> you're gonna change VERSION, then tag, then change it back, right?
[03:06:25] <cradek> yes
[03:06:31] <jmkasunich> so the tag actually applies to a window a few minutes wide, not a date
[03:06:49] <cradek> I guess
[03:07:11] <jmkasunich> if VERSION is the only thing that changes, who cares... but suppose there are real commits either before or after the tag, but on the same day
[03:07:17] <cradek> but you can sure look at the date of that VERSION revision to get the tree
[03:07:23] <jmkasunich> good point
[03:07:33] <jmkasunich> OK, I'll shut up now
[03:07:43] <cradek> I don't understand what you just said
[03:07:44] <jmkasunich> (more of me trying to figure out how it can break)
[03:08:02] <jmkasunich> which part?
[03:08:06] <cradek> ".. on the same day"
[03:08:28] <jmkasunich> 9pm, somebody commits something important (not a change to version)
[03:08:42] <jmkasunich> 10pm, version is changed, tag is applied, version is changed back
[03:08:52] <jmkasunich> 11pm, work continues on head, with another commit
[03:09:06] <jmkasunich> 2 months later, I want to check out that TESTING to help someone
[03:09:18] <jmkasunich> I need date and time if I want to get the right thing
[03:09:21] <cradek> you'd get the 10pm version
[03:09:25] <cradek> sure, you have that
[03:09:28] <cradek> it's in VERSION's log
[03:09:40] <jmkasunich> that;s why I shut up ;-)
[03:09:58] <jmkasunich> but you must admit it can be error prone if you're not aware of the details
[03:10:26] <cradek> everything is like that!
[03:10:38] <jmkasunich> a tag would make it bullet proof
[03:10:52] <jmkasunich> at the expense of having lots of them build up over time
[03:11:05] <cradek> sure
[03:11:15] <cradek> it depends how much we expect to need/use these versions
[03:11:58] <jmkasunich> lesser of two evils I guess - I suspect that 99% of the time if somebody says "I'm running Testing-<2monthsago> and I need help" our first response will be "get the current one", so the case I was worried about will be rare
[03:12:07] <cradek> I agree
[03:12:23] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich shuts up
[03:12:27] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:12:56] <cradek> ok I'll get on with it, let's see if I can get this right
[03:13:15] <jmkasunich> I'm tempted to put a checklist on a wiki page
[03:13:36] <jmkasunich> "release procedures"
[03:13:45] <cradek> I'll make notes
[03:13:56] <jmkasunich> make notes on the wiki ;-)
[03:14:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/VERSION: moving TESTING
[03:14:54] <jmkasunich> ?
[03:14:59] <jmkasunich> oh, sorry
[03:15:04] <jmkasunich> duh moment
[03:15:21] <jmkasunich> spherecat
[03:15:24] <jmkasunich> fsck
[03:20:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/VERSION: Done tagging
[03:20:46] <cradek> maybe next time I'll be able to do it without reading the info pages
[03:20:54] <jmkasunich> tagging?
[03:21:01] <cradek> yeah
[03:21:24] <jmkasunich> anything beyond checkout or commit I read the book
[03:21:34] <jmkasunich> too many options and too many ways to get confused
[03:21:37] <cradek> maybe I need a book
[03:21:43] <cradek> but info is like a book with hyperlinks
[03:22:12] <jmkasunich> I wasn't referring to a paper book, don't have the CVS one
[03:22:26] <jmkasunich> but there is http://cvsbook.red-bean.com/
[03:24:07] <jmkasunich> just remembered something I should have done
[03:24:12] <jmkasunich> updated the history file
[03:25:10] <cradek> np, just do it and move the tag on that file up
[03:25:39] <jmkasunich> I'll just do the update and leave the tag alone ;-)
[03:25:50] <cradek> I'll move it for you
[03:26:20] <jmkasunich> NEWS is the file, right?
[03:26:44] <cradek> yes, but I don't see it
[03:26:52] <jmkasunich> in docs/
[03:27:04] <cradek> right
[03:27:07] <cradek> I've never touched it
[03:27:19] <jmkasunich> I seem to recall alex saying something about info from that winding up in the debs somewhere?
[03:27:58] <cradek> yes that kind of thing goes in /usr/share/doc/emc2
[03:28:23] <cradek> also there's a (debian-mandated) changelog with a particular format, so we're duplicating effort somewhat.
[03:28:34] <jmkasunich> maybe thats what alex was talking about
[03:28:40] <jmkasunich> where is that located?
[03:28:44] <cradek> same place
[03:28:50] <jmkasunich> NEWS?
[03:28:54] <cradek> yes
[03:28:56] <jmkasunich> or you mean same dir
[03:29:03] <cradek> /usr/share/doc/emc2/changelog.Debian.gz
[03:29:08] <cradek> /usr/share/doc/emc2/NEWS.gz
[03:29:36] <jmkasunich> both derived from CVS: /docs/NEWS tho?
[03:29:45] <cradek> no, both written separately
[03:29:46] <jmkasunich> or does the info have to be entered somewhere else
[03:30:28] <cradek> the debian one is debian/changelog, and I write an entry every time I make a new deb
[03:30:42] <jmkasunich> seems kinda dumb
[03:30:47] <jmkasunich> we should only have one
[03:31:02] <jmkasunich> or do you prefer it this way, so you can decide what gets noted in the deb log?
[03:31:13] <cradek> it's tough because major changes (that go in NEWS) don't exactly coincide with deb-making (which requires an entry in debian/changelog)
[03:31:45] <cradek> when you see the new emc2 deb in the update manager, the latest debian/changelog entry shows to tell you what changes you're going to get
[03:32:19] <jmkasunich> hmm, I just clicked on the update manager
[03:32:24] <jmkasunich> emc2 is new (as expected)
[03:32:43] <jmkasunich> but both "changes" and "description" under Details are blank
[03:33:19] <cradek> is there an update to update-manager available?
[03:33:33] <jmkasunich> I think I got one yesterday
[03:33:42] <jmkasunich> emc2 is the only update today
[03:33:53] <cradek> it shows ver alpha21?
[03:33:56] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:34:06] <cradek> dpkg -l update-manager
[03:34:13] <cradek> do you have 0.37.99.cjr1?
[03:34:39] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:34:42] <cradek> huh
[03:34:50] <Jymmm> * Jymmm waves
[03:34:52] <cradek> it worked for me...
[03:34:54] <jmkasunich> cjr? is this from ubuntu or you?
[03:34:59] <cradek> me
[03:35:09] <Jymmm> whats all this talk about ubuntu?
[03:35:31] <jmkasunich> why are you releasing versions of ubuntu's install-manager?
[03:35:51] <cradek> jmkasunich: to get it to read changelogs for packages that aren't theirs
[03:36:01] <cradek> jmkasunich: they have it hardcoded to contact only THEIR webserver for changelogs
[03:36:07] <jmkasunich> oh
[03:36:23] <cradek> I think that feature is important for emc releases, so I fixed it
[03:36:47] <cradek> jmkasunich: I'm building debian packages that make installing/running emc2 on ubuntu easy
[03:36:52] <jmkasunich> gonna submit a patch to them for inclusion?
[03:36:53] <cradek> err Jymmm:
[03:37:04] <cradek> jmkasunich: maybe
[03:37:08] <jmkasunich> or are they likely to consider the hardcoded server a feature
[03:37:15] <Jymmm> cradek whu ubuntu instead of sarge?
[03:37:18] <Jymmm> ehy
[03:37:27] <Jymmm> w h y
[03:37:28] <cradek> I don't know, I'm pretty disappointed in how they had it hardcoded
[03:37:37] <cradek> Jymmm: easier to install, more polished
[03:37:49] <cradek> Jymmm: excellent i18n support
[03:38:07] <Jymmm> Ok, fancy wrapper, but the contents are a grab bag
[03:38:29] <cradek> Jymmm: it's way too late to debate the choice for me, feel free to build sarge packages if you like
[03:39:28] <Jymmm> cradek It's nto really a debate as much as understanding the reasoning behind it.
[03:40:06] <cradek> Jymmm: it's a choice I made, nothing more
[03:40:51] <Jymmm> and these pkgs will work under Sarge too?
[03:41:07] <cradek> Jymmm: untested
[03:41:32] <jmkasunich> I'd be rather nervous putting the kernel packages into a sarge box
[03:41:37] <Jymmm> untested as the version, or untested as in nfc
[03:41:51] <cradek> Jymmm: I have never run sarge
[03:42:00] <Jymmm> k
[03:42:08] <Jymmm> jmkasunich why's that?
[03:42:26] <Jymmm> as ubuntu is based on sarge.
[03:42:35] <jmkasunich> cause kernels are scary ;-)
[03:42:36] <Jymmm> well, sarge unstable
[03:42:52] <cradek> jmkasunich: I suspect it would work ok...
[03:43:15] <jmkasunich> thats good, but I still ain't gonna try it
[03:43:53] <cradek> my goal is a turnkey setup, which means I can concentrate on one OS release.
[03:44:11] <cradek> If others can use the packages, great, but I don't need the added complexity of many-platform testing.
[03:44:19] <jmkasunich> right
[03:46:54] <jmkasunich> remember I said the details/changes and details/description didn't work
[03:47:09] <jmkasunich> EBKAC again
[03:47:20] <jmkasunich> gotta click on the package to make them appear
[03:47:21] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands jmkasunich a P
[03:47:35] <cradek> ahhhh
[03:47:36] <jmkasunich> I would probably have realized that if there was more than one
[03:47:44] <cradek> I agree it's NOT obvious
[03:48:18] <jmkasunich> ok, the CVS tag is Testing-2006-02-14
[03:48:30] <jmkasunich> the deb is 2.0.0-alpha21
[03:50:44] <jmkasunich> and the deb installed Help/About says Prerelease HEAD
[03:50:59] <jmkasunich> should we attempt to coordinate those?
[03:51:30] <cradek> ugh
[03:51:35] <cradek> probably
[03:51:56] <jmkasunich> seems to me the release process should be:
[03:51:58] <cradek> unfortunately I think 2.0.0 is NOT "newer" than 2.0.0-alpha21
[03:52:01] <jmkasunich> set VERSION
[03:52:03] <jmkasunich> apply tag
[03:52:04] <cradek> so we've already got a mess regarding the debs
[03:52:06] <jmkasunich> build debs
[03:52:23] <jmkasunich> reset VERSION
[03:52:34] <jmkasunich> that will at least make the displayed (About) version match
[03:52:42] <orpheus> from looking around, it seems to me that there's no jood linux software to generate NC code from a model of any sort. is that true?
[03:52:50] <jmkasunich> the actual deb version needs to comply with debian rules, right?
[03:53:20] <cradek> I think debian is not strict about the exact format of the version string
[03:53:42] <orpheus> seems to be cool with both .'s ans -'s
[03:53:50] <jmkasunich> orpheus: I'm not familiar with that area (more of a coder than a user), but I think you are right, the pickings are kind of slim
[03:53:50] <cradek> right
[03:53:54] <cradek> just not _
[03:54:05] <orpheus> jmk: k
[03:54:14] <cradek> I'm not sure exactly what algorithm they use for "newer than"
[03:54:23] <cradek> that's something I could probably find out.
[03:54:28] <orpheus> * orpheus goes to try writing a simple implementation of such
[03:54:42] <cradek> worst we'd have to do is have the testers dpkg --purge emc2; apt-get install emc2
[03:55:27] <orpheus> cradek: you can always use apt-preferences if you need to force some version rule
[03:56:23] <cradek> yeah our early adopters will be able to handle whatever small thing is necessary if we change numbering schemes.
[03:56:51] <orpheus> emc2 .deb's?
[03:57:10] <cradek> jmkasunich: I hadn't thought hard about synchronizing these things, but you're right they should be.
[03:57:17] <orpheus> how useable is that dow days?
[03:57:18] <cradek> orpheus: yes, there are debs for ubuntu
[03:57:20] <orpheus> *now
[03:57:26] <cradek> orpheus: very
[03:57:30] <orpheus> cool
[03:57:59] <cradek> orpheus: it's still in testing, as there is not an offical emc2 release, but it works great.
[03:58:26] <orpheus> any clue if things explode with debian? and weird dependancies that come from ubuntu
[03:58:26] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
[03:58:59] <cradek> orpheus: as far as I know, nobody has tested yet on debian.
[03:59:16] <jmkasunich> to be clear: nobody has tested the debs on debian
[03:59:17] <orpheus> oh, well, you may have youself a first
[03:59:35] <jmkasunich> the source compiles and runs fine on BDI-4.several, which is debian
[03:59:55] <cradek> right, I'm talking in particular about the debs
[04:00:09] <cradek> the source works on plenty of platforms
[04:00:20] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't say plenty
[04:00:22] <cradek> orpheus: what kernel version is your debian system?
[04:00:31] <jmkasunich> BDI-Live and 4.xx and ubuntu
[04:00:34] <cradek> jmkasunich: any modern linux distribution.
[04:00:47] <jmkasunich> assuming it has a RT patched kernel and the right dependencies
[04:00:52] <jmkasunich> which is a non-trivial assumption
[04:01:43] <orpheus> ah, well, i'm not quite that far yet
[04:01:44] <cradek> orpheus: the realtime kernel/rtai debs are based on 2.6.12 which is the version in ubuntu 5.10
[04:02:05] <cradek> orpheus: oh you're not installed yet? then install ubuntu!
[04:02:24] <orpheus> i was going to use this laptop i had lying around
[04:02:34] <orpheus> but it's only a 300 mhz
[04:02:50] <cradek> that'll work ok, I installed on a 266 last week
[04:02:51] <orpheus> i've been hearing that's too slow
[04:02:53] <cradek> laptop
[04:03:04] <cradek> oh it's slow allright, but not "too slow"
[04:03:05] <orpheus> what interface?
[04:03:15] <cradek> the default - full gnome
[04:03:32] <cradek> it's not bad if you get rid of gnome-terminal
[04:03:40] <orpheus> no, i've heard that emc's realtime stuff will say "no"
[04:03:53] <cradek> that's not true, it works fine. lots of people run it on machines that speed.
[04:04:04] <cradek> even AXIS runs acceptably on my laptop.
[04:04:06] <jmkasunich> you aren't gonna have screaming rapids with a stepper machine, but it will work
[04:04:28] <jmkasunich> (there has been some recent talk about the RT having problems, that was a bug and its fixed now)
[04:04:30] <orpheus> i already have debian installed, and i'm not reinstalling (darned maching won't boot from cd, and my floppy drive died)
[04:04:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich define 'not screaming'
[04:05:02] <cradek> orpheus: sounds like a bad machine to experiment with then...
[04:05:11] <jmkasunich> 200MHz CPU can "probalbly" run steppers at the default 50uS BASE_PERIOD
[04:05:12] <Jymmm> oh, always blame the machine!
[04:05:24] <orpheus> well, i'm also just now getting my mill set up too
[04:05:28] <jmkasunich> which means a max of 10K steps/sec
[04:05:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich what would that be about in IPM?
[04:05:38] <jmkasunich> probalby best to stay under 5K steps/sec
[04:05:51] <cradek> orpheus: if you're going to run a real mill, you do not want to use a laptop. They're notorious troublemakers.
[04:05:51] <jmkasunich> Jymm: silly question, that depends on the machine
[04:06:15] <jmkasunich> full stepping with a 1" pitch screw? or 10x microstepping, 2:1 gear reduction, and 20TPI?
[04:06:20] <jmkasunich> it makes a huge difference
[04:06:26] <cradek> orpheus: mine causes the realtime to stutter whenever the CPU fan turns on or off
[04:06:26] <orpheus> steppers aren't here yet, then i have to mount them... point is, i was just going to see what the software looked like
[04:06:39] <orpheus> dang
[04:06:40] <cradek> ah, for that, it's fine
[04:06:46] <Jymmm> .5" 5tpi 8micro
[04:07:03] <cradek> Jymmm: can you do the math yourself please?
[04:07:03] <Jymmm> * Jymmm needs to write a calculator sometime
[04:07:10] <jmkasunich> Jymm: .5" pitch is 2 tpi
[04:07:10] <orpheus> well, it was my hope to use that mahine, but oh well
[04:07:31] <cradek> orpheus: some people report success with some laptops, some (me) report insurmountable problems
[04:07:41] <orpheus> ah
[04:07:46] <cradek> orpheus: all depends on luck (your laptop)
[04:07:47] <Jymmm> .5" diameter, 5tpi
[04:07:55] <jmkasunich> ok, diameter doesn't matter
[04:07:58] <Jymmm> cradek I could if I knew.
[04:08:06] <orpheus> it's just that i don't have tons of space
[04:08:13] <orpheus> so a laptop would be good
[04:08:19] <jmkasunich> 200 steps/rev * 8 microsteps = 1600 steps/rev
[04:08:20] <cradek> yeah
[04:08:30] <jmkasunich> times 5 tpi = 8000 steps/inch
[04:08:52] <jmkasunich> so at 5000 steps/sec, you'd get 5000/8000 = 0.625 inches per second
[04:09:07] <orpheus> here's some good questions:
[04:09:12] <jmkasunich> times 60 = 37.5 ipm
[04:09:49] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Seriously, you think a lil js calculator would be nice?
[04:09:49] <jmkasunich> Jymm: there will be a quiz next week, so remember that math
[04:09:58] <orpheus> if i'm going to run 3 steppers from a parallel port, all i really need is a parallel cable to gut, and 3 stepper drivers, right?
[04:10:16] <jmkasunich> Jymm: no need, its just basic math
[04:10:23] <cradek> orpheus: more or less - the parallel port lines usually go directly to the stepper drivers
[04:10:37] <jmkasunich> orpheus: what size motors?
[04:10:42] <Jymmm> jmkasunich basic yes, but lots of items =)
[04:10:51] <cradek> sometimes you have an intermediate board of some kind that allows you to hook up things like estop or limit switches too.
[04:10:59] <orpheus> nema23 3V,3A
[04:11:06] <jmkasunich> hmm
[04:11:25] <orpheus> 200oz/inch
[04:11:31] <jmkasunich> Xylotex has a nice little 3 channel microstepping board, that already has the DB-25 on it
[04:11:40] <jmkasunich> no cable gutting needed
[04:11:47] <jmkasunich> about $130 I think
[04:11:49] <cradek> it's cheap too
[04:11:57] <orpheus> whic brings me to another question, where can i get drivers for not-too-much
[04:11:58] <cradek> but only handles 24V I think
[04:12:00] <jmkasunich> goes up to 2.5A, 24V
[04:12:16] <orpheus> as in, up to 24V?
[04:12:25] <orpheus> or up to 2.5A at 3 V?
[04:12:28] <cradek> orpheus: I think the cheapest solution would be the xylotex
[04:12:32] <cradek> up to 24V
[04:12:36] <orpheus> k
[04:12:40] <cradek> you'll want to run your motors on 24V
[04:12:46] <Jymmm> NINE POUND HAMBURGER!!!
[04:12:55] <jmkasunich> max supply voltage is actually 35V, recommended max is 30, most folks find 24V to be most convenient
[04:12:56] <cradek> preferably 30-40, but you'd need better drivers
[04:13:19] <jmkasunich> I have a xylotex, I like it
[04:13:34] <jmkasunich> but I don't run a machine with it, just some steppers on a testbench
[04:13:35] <orpheus> dude, they're 3V steppers, isn't 30-40V a bad idea?
[04:13:49] <cradek> no, the driver limits the current to a safe value
[04:13:55] <jmkasunich> no - the 3V spec is the zero speed (DC) voltage rating
[04:14:09] <jmkasunich> the drives are choppers, and step down the supply voltage to limit current
[04:14:10] <orpheus> shiny
[04:14:19] <jmkasunich> higher voltage is needed to get good torque at high speed
[04:14:42] <jmkasunich> general recommendation for top stepper performance with choppers is about 10x to 25x the motor voltage
[04:14:57] <orpheus> so basically, it's 24V spikes that average to less than 3v
[04:15:09] <jmkasunich> yes, at low speed
[04:15:17] <orpheus> ok
[04:15:25] <jmkasunich> as the motor speeds up, the voltage rises, but the current remains fixed
[04:15:37] <jmkasunich> its current that makes torque (and also makes the motor hot)
[04:15:43] <cradek> orpheus: motors are huge inductors, you need the high voltage to lower the time constant
[04:15:45] <jmkasunich> so you don't want too much current
[04:16:03] <Jymmm> you run steppers about 20 to 25 times it's rated voltage
[04:16:12] <jmkasunich> what kind of machine do you want to run with these motors?
[04:16:47] <orpheus> it's a harbor freight, one of those crazy micromills
[04:16:59] <jmkasunich> micro or mini?
[04:17:07] <jmkasunich> 30 lbs or 150 lbs ;-)
[04:17:07] <orpheus> errrrr.....
[04:17:11] <orpheus> 150
[04:17:39] <orpheus> UPS said "no" when it was packed in a single box
[04:17:41] <jmkasunich> the only person I know with one of those (Jon Elson) used NEMA34 steppers
[04:18:09] <orpheus> * orpheus crosses fingers
[04:18:09] <jmkasunich> I dunno if it _needs_ NEMA34
[04:18:12] <cradek> the 23s might be a little underpowered... might be ok if you keep your speed down (and depending on the leadscrews)
[04:18:29] <jmkasunich> ballscrews or acme? (probably acme)
[04:18:35] <orpheus> errr....
[04:18:38] <orpheus> (again)
[04:18:43] <cradek> do you know the pitch?
[04:18:57] <orpheus> .05"/turn
[04:19:03] <jmkasunich> acme
[04:19:22] <orpheus> any other differences?
[04:19:32] <jmkasunich> ?
[04:19:42] <cradek> those motors will probably be ok with acme 20 pitch
[04:19:49] <cradek> but it's not going to jog real fast.
[04:20:08] <orpheus> 'cause if there's a leadscrew that doesn't involve me putting push berings into my motor mounts, it'd be cool
[04:20:14] <orpheus> i have time
[04:20:34] <orpheus> nnot push bearings, what do they call them...
[04:20:37] <jmkasunich> the machine was built for manual use, right?
[04:20:39] <jmkasunich> thrust
[04:20:40] <orpheus> yeah
[04:20:42] <orpheus> that
[04:20:45] <orpheus> to both
[04:20:55] <jmkasunich> so the screws should already be able to handle the thrust
[04:21:05] <cradek> are they 1/4"-20?
[04:21:21] <orpheus> 8mm i think
[04:21:26] <cradek> that's a funny acme, usually 1/4-16
[04:21:56] <cradek> funny to have metric diameter and inch pitch
[04:22:01] <cradek> maybe 3/8?
[04:22:07] <orpheus> well, whatever the inside of a 608 bearing is...
[04:22:08] <cradek> I don't know much about leadscrews :-/
[04:22:46] <jmkasunich> I would expect the end of the screw that goes in the bearing is turned down to fit
[04:22:56] <jmkasunich> the threaded part shouldn't be in the bearing
[04:22:57] <orpheus> oh, yes
[04:23:04] <orpheus> most certanly
[04:23:16] <jmkasunich> might be a 1/2 inch screw, turned to 8mm at the bearing seat, or something like that
[04:23:27] <cradek> ah
[04:23:44] <orpheus> well, dang.... my z looks different than the y
[04:23:47] <jmkasunich> I would hope a 150lb class mill (minimill as opposed to micromill) would have bigger than 1/4-20 screws
[04:23:50] <orpheus> different widths
[04:23:59] <orpheus> hah, yes
[04:24:32] <orpheus> gimmie 2 mins with a caliper...
[04:24:47] <Jymmm> jmkasunich no way a screw would be 1/4" on a minimill, would it? I mena I know they're cheap, but not THAT cheap.
[04:25:09] <jmkasunich> 1/4" is more like micromill/Sherline size I think
[04:25:24] <Jymmm> jmkasunich sherline I would expect.
[04:26:01] <cradek> I'm sure sherline uses 1/4" acme
[04:26:18] <jmkasunich> I'm not even sure its acme
[04:26:24] <Jymmm> I know it's 20 tpi
[04:26:44] <Jymmm> wait, I'm thinking soemthign else
[04:26:45] <jmkasunich> course I haven't seen that many, and my eyes don't focus on something as fine as 20tpi ;-)
[04:26:52] <cradek> jmkasunich: I think my metric sherline is acme
[04:26:56] <cradek> jmkasunich: it's 1mm pitch
[04:27:30] <jmkasunich> teeny threads
[04:27:45] <cradek> yeah but easy to count
[04:27:57] <cradek> unlike 16tpi leadscrews :-P
[04:28:03] <jmkasunich> my shoptask has 10tpi, 5/8 dia acme, my Van Norman has 5tpi about 1" acme
[04:28:22] <jmkasunich> the shoptask is the one I intend to CNC
[04:29:00] <jmkasunich> 16tpi is easy to count too (if you hold a rule with 1/16 grads up to it)
[04:29:14] <orpheus> hookay
[04:29:28] <cradek> but with a drawing in thousandths, seems like it'd be hell
[04:29:30] <orpheus> z is 3/8ish, y is 7/16ish
[04:29:34] <orpheus> what the heck
[04:29:51] <orpheus> different sizes.. go figure
[04:30:11] <jmkasunich> diameter isn't all that important
[04:30:15] <orpheus> also, that's from the outside of the threads
[04:30:17] <jmkasunich> pitch is what counts
[04:30:21] <orpheus> yeah
[04:30:28] <orpheus> 20tpi
[04:30:39] <orpheus> that matters more
[04:30:52] <cradek> goodnight folks
[04:30:57] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:31:02] <orpheus> g'night
[04:31:02] <jmkasunich> I need to sleep too
[04:31:10] <jmkasunich> still recovering from 3am this weekend
[04:31:25] <orpheus> ah, should i leave you alone till after my steppers get here?
[04:32:04] <jmkasunich> ?
[04:32:15] <jmkasunich> you can always show up here and ask questions
[04:32:15] <orpheus> they're in the mail
[04:32:20] <jmkasunich> somebody will answer
[04:32:30] <orpheus> good point
[04:32:35] <orpheus> quick question tho
[04:32:41] <jmkasunich> shoot
[04:32:59] <orpheus> xylotech says $145, is there any other place i should be looking?
[04:33:15] <jmkasunich> xylotex is the only one I have personal experience with
[04:33:34] <jmkasunich> I'm sure there are others, nothing springs to mind right now
[04:33:40] <orpheus> ah
[04:33:52] <Jymmm> orpheus: Just be careful when wiring it up
[04:33:55] <orpheus> you're not looking to sell your or anything, right?
[04:34:04] <orpheus> yeah, 24v hurts
[04:34:04] <jmkasunich> geckos are a step up, about $120 per axis (instead of $150 for three, or $50 per axis)
[04:34:20] <jmkasunich> no, not selling ;-)
[04:34:28] <jmkasunich> 24V doesn't hurt people
[04:34:38] <jmkasunich> but shorted motor windings hurts drives
[04:34:40] <Jymmm> jmkasunich heh heh heh
[04:34:48] <orpheus> it can at 9 amps...
[04:34:53] <orpheus> that too tho
[04:34:54] <jmkasunich> including shorts to ground
[04:35:02] <jmkasunich> I burned mine out
[04:35:06] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands jmkasunich a wire... "touch it"
[04:35:08] <orpheus> words from the wise
[04:35:24] <jmkasunich> Jeff (the guy at xylotex) repaired it for $27 bucks
[04:35:34] <orpheus> 24V doesn't kill people, people kill people
[04:35:54] <Jymmm> you can get knocked on your ass from a D battery
[04:35:55] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich hands Jymm a piece of 500MCM connected to a 480V 800A feeder
[04:36:07] <orpheus> will most any ltp-port-based driver work with emc/
[04:36:15] <orpheus> ebay has some variety
[04:36:30] <Jymmm> jmkasunich hey now, mine was only connected to 24v
[04:36:31] <jmkasunich> hard to answer that
[04:36:43] <jmkasunich> "almost any" is a pretty wide range
[04:36:51] <orpheus> google "emc + device name here"
[04:36:54] <orpheus> right?
[04:37:11] <jmkasunich> Jymm: I work with 480-690V at 600+ amps all the time
[04:37:18] <Jymmm> orpheus have you got your motors already?
[04:37:25] <jmkasunich> I don't worry about 24C
[04:37:26] <orpheus> in the mail
[04:37:30] <jmkasunich> 24V that is
[04:37:43] <orpheus> 24C isn't that hot either
[04:37:47] <jmkasunich> no
[04:37:51] <Jymmm> orpheus Xylotex is a bipolar driver
[04:37:59] <orpheus> 8-wire steppers
[04:38:07] <orpheus> i'm learning
[04:38:20] <jmkasunich> I dunno where you guys are, but its 11:38 here and I gotta work in the morning
[04:38:26] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[04:38:31] <Jymmm> nite jmkasunich
[04:38:33] <orpheus> i got that 8-wire means wire it any way you neeed to
[04:38:45] <orpheus> thanks for answering newbie questions
[04:38:51] <jmkasunich> no prob
[04:39:00] <Jymmm> orpheus pretty much, I just ordered the motors from Jeff too.
[04:39:18] <orpheus> ebay was just too cheap for that part
[04:39:55] <orpheus> but he includes a power supply...
[04:40:03] <orpheus> oh well, too late now
[04:40:19] <Jymmm> he doesn't INCLUDE a PS/ but you can get one from him.
[04:40:27] <Jymmm> @$VDC switching PS
[04:40:32] <Jymmm> 24VDC switching PS
[04:40:53] <orpheus> ah
[04:41:19] <orpheus> there's n list of "known" working hardware, is there/
[04:41:22] <fenn> you dont want a switching PS supplying motors
[04:42:02] <orpheus> *no
[04:42:19] <Jymmm> fenn be fair now
[04:42:41] <Jymmm> linear would be best, but switching will work.
[04:42:54] <fenn> a non-regulated supply would be best
[04:43:03] <fenn> transformer, bridge, capacitor
[04:43:40] <orpheus> i don't even know what mine is...
[04:43:57] <orpheus> it's just 'big' , and 'hot' and times
[04:44:19] <Jymmm> does it have a transformer
[04:44:23] <Jymmm> ?
[04:44:47] <orpheus> yes.
[04:44:50] <orpheus> a big one
[04:44:56] <fenn> otherwise it wouldnt be big, just hot
[04:45:42] <orpheus> it's some 15-year-old 15-amp 25-volt variable supply. 2 knobs, 2 meters, one switch.
[04:45:58] <orpheus> now i just have to borrow it back
[04:46:32] <fenn> sounds like it'll work
[04:49:27] <orpheus> oh, what's the difference between unipolar and bipolar anyways?
[04:49:52] <fenn> unipolar gets pushed on one end, bipolar gets pushed and pulled
[04:49:58] <orpheus> they're both basically 2-phase motors, no?
[04:50:38] <fenn> bipolar has two wires coming out for each coil.. unipolar has one wire for each and a common
[04:51:10] <orpheus> ok
[04:52:09] <orpheus> point beingthat bipolar is better, as then my motors are 282oz/in , not 200
[04:53:17] <fenn> yep
[04:54:22] <orpheus> and microstepping is the ability to make a less-than-full step
[04:55:47] <fenn> yep
[05:08:18] <orpheus> are there any devices emc will work with that are done with a serial interface
[05:08:20] <orpheus> ?
[05:10:08] <orpheus> looks like no, at least for these drivers
[05:11:38] <orpheus> dang, they were cheap too
[05:12:02] <fenn> most serial interfaces are too slow
[05:12:10] <fenn> er, i guess
[05:12:16] <fenn> dunno why actually..
[05:12:46] <fenn> most serial motion controllers are fed Gcode, and then create the motion in hardware
[05:13:30] <fenn> anyway, no, there's no serial port interface in HAL
[05:13:39] <orpheus> oh well
[05:13:48] <orpheus> $75 would have been good for 3
[05:13:56] <orpheus> 3 single axis
[05:13:57] <fenn> whatsit?
[05:14:13] <fenn> picstep?
[05:14:20] <orpheus> http://cgi.ebay.com/LOT-3-API-DM-224I-Microstepping-Motor-Control_W0QQitemZ7589998370QQcategoryZ71394QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:14:30] <orpheus> see if that goes
[05:15:17] <fenn> expect those to go up quite a bit more
[05:15:42] <orpheus> ah
[05:15:49] <orpheus> but.. what are they?
[05:16:11] <orpheus> aside from a good reason to have 3 comm ports
[05:16:14] <fenn> those arent even stepper drivers
[05:16:41] <fenn> er, i think
[05:16:59] <orpheus> holy crap
[05:17:10] <orpheus> no wonder that didn't make sense
[05:17:20] <orpheus> servo drivrs
[05:17:50] <orpheus> excuse me while i fail to read correcty
[05:17:58] <orpheus> or type correctly
[05:18:28] <fenn> i dunno what they are smoking
[05:18:44] <fenn> its a stepper drive that takes encoder inputs
[05:19:38] <fenn> you probably feed them gcode or similar and they do all the acceleration and such
[05:19:51] <fenn> not really what you want for cnc
[05:19:56] <orpheus> but it's per-axis...
[05:20:00] <orpheus> ow
[05:20:04] <fenn> right that's the problem
[05:20:11] <orpheus> very odd
[05:20:29] <orpheus> point is the xyloctex is looking better
[05:21:29] <orpheus> no, ebay search, i don't want a solution to my bipolar personality...
[05:22:00] <fenn> bill20r3 is getting these http://cgi.ebay.com/CENTENT-CN0121-REM-CN0121_W0QQitemZ7577664420QQcategoryZ97184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:22:50] <fenn> wait that doesn't look right
[05:23:39] <orpheus> take a gander at these.. http://tinyurl.com/9okjf
[05:25:27] <fenn> that's a monster heatsink
[05:25:30] <orpheus> yeah
[05:26:02] <orpheus> but.. 3 amps.. matches the motors, but i'd need to find a voltage rating
[05:26:27] <fenn> http://cgi.ebay.com/Bi-polar-Stepper-Motor-Control-Board-10A-CNC_W0QQitemZ7588545113QQcategoryZ58294QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:27:54] <orpheus> doood..
[05:28:04] <orpheus> noheatsink up to 6A
[05:29:22] <fenn> wow it's $17 on their website
[05:29:51] <fenn> ah its backordered though
[05:30:31] <orpheus> $8 assembled
[05:30:38] <orpheus> $8 more
[05:30:45] <orpheus> but... what's the catch?
[05:30:57] <fenn> * fenn has been waiting for a month for his stupid electronics to arrive
[05:31:15] <fenn> from a different company
[05:31:33] <orpheus> ah
[05:31:36] <orpheus> but dang...
[05:32:09] <orpheus> i'm not totally sure it regulates the power going to the motors.. is that possible?
[05:32:44] <orpheus> like, it may let an arbitrary amperage through, whatever you give it
[05:34:02] <orpheus> do you see any catches?
[05:35:24] <fenn> wish i could zoom in more to read the labels on the chips
[05:39:00] <orpheus> heh
[05:39:04] <orpheus> if only
[05:39:22] <fenn> well i can make a pretty good guess - neat how you can see the traces on both sides of the board
[05:39:23] <orpheus> they *might* respond to emails
[05:40:17] <orpheus> it just doesn't seem to have enough on it...
[05:43:12] <fenn> i think the brown-green-brown-(brown?) resistors are the current sense resistors
[05:43:52] <fenn> at the top and bottom
[05:44:13] <fenn> the little 6-pin chips are the opto's for step/dir
[05:44:18] <orpheus> that means something...
[05:44:25] <orpheus> i'm CS not EE
[05:44:30] <orpheus> too bad
[05:44:43] <orpheus> what's an opto do/
[05:45:10] <Jymmm> cya
[05:45:23] <fenn> little LED/photodiode pair that protects against static discharge and the like
[05:45:30] <fenn> there's no electrical connection
[05:49:14] <fenn> ah a gold band is 0.1 multiplier..
[05:50:05] <fenn> blah i give up
[05:50:38] <orpheus> heh
[05:50:42] <orpheus> thanks for trying
[05:51:32] <orpheus> think i may try for them, since i don't really need microstepping
[05:52:18] <fenn> i'm a little interested in those drivers myself
[05:53:02] <orpheus> i'll let you know how long the backorder is/ if they work when i get mine
[05:53:24] <orpheus> i'll probably be in here then, so be sure tot ask
[05:54:09] <fenn> hmm the other controller doesn't have a current control
[05:54:15] <fenn> the other one they sell
[05:54:45] <fenn> bah i should just make my own
[05:55:07] <fenn> * fenn sacrifices 20 virgin goats to the UPS god
[05:55:17] <fenn> come on packages!
[05:56:14] <Jymmm> orpheus and why dont you need microstepping?
[05:56:58] <orpheus> well, one step is... hurmm
[05:57:00] <orpheus> math
[05:57:12] <Jymmm> microstepping isn't used for precision movement as much as overcoming stepper motor issues.
[05:57:20] <fenn> microstepping is for wuuses
[05:57:22] <orpheus> ah
[05:57:42] <orpheus> like not skipping steps
[05:57:43] <Jymmm> fenn go take your geritol or prunes or sotheing
[05:58:03] <Jymmm> orpheus smoother motion for one
[05:58:06] <orpheus> they don't list that t
[05:58:17] <orpheus> the driver does microstepping\
[05:58:37] <orpheus> so i was assuming not
[05:59:54] <orpheus> http://www.electronicutopia.com/contents/en-us/p289.html?lmd=38747.972917 if you wanna see
[06:03:07] <orpheus> ah, well, i gtg
[06:03:11] <orpheus> sleep time
[06:03:16] <orpheus> 1:30
[06:03:20] <orpheus> err
[06:03:21] <orpheus> 03
[06:03:28] <orpheus> my, it is late
[06:04:12] <fenn> nites
[06:05:10] <fenn> * fenn dreams of field-oriented controlled stepper motors..
[06:05:17] <orpheus> hope they're microstepping
[06:05:25] <orpheus> the one's i may order
[10:39:46] <SOrMmxW> New game started, http://sre.servegame.com : This is a webgame based on SOLAR REALMS ELITE, a famous BBS game back in 1992 (Earth2025/BRE fans are welcome)
[14:46:49] <jepler> cradek: looks like your message to the bdi list went through
[14:47:06] <cradek> yay
[14:47:40] <cradek> hope I got everything right
[14:54:43] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[14:54:43] <skunkworks> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-15#T14-54-43
[14:57:58] <skunkworks> cradek - I am trying to read info on the ubuntu page. I can't with ie 6
[14:58:15] <skunkworks> are they trying to keep windows users away? ;)
[14:58:22] <cradek> do you mean the timeguy site?
[14:58:38] <skunkworks> no - you have a link to ubuntu from your site
[14:59:04] <cradek> oh ubuntu.com?
[14:59:11] <skunkworks> never mind - I need to scroll down ;)
[14:59:46] <skunkworks> they have a large white space before the text - so you have to scroll down a page to see anything
[14:59:49] <jepler> cradek: huh, your (timeguy.com) front page is very wide on IE
[15:00:07] <jepler> cradek: "internal" pages seem to be OK
[15:00:15] <cradek> jepler: strange - it used to work...
[15:00:26] <cradek> skunkworks: that's IE's bogus rendering of CSS
[15:00:33] <skunkworks> ah
[15:00:40] <cradek> skunkworks: I recommend an upgrade to firefox
[15:01:36] <skunkworks> sounds good. I have it installed on one of my computers here at work. going to have to play with it again.
[15:01:50] <skunkworks> why do you like ubuntu?
[15:03:51] <skunkworks> Does your emc2-install.sh - make it a rt kernel? Or am I confused?
[15:04:21] <jepler> skunkworks: emc2-install.sh adds a new repository for debian packages, and the installs the needed ones
[15:04:31] <cradek> the sh installs a few packages, yes one of them is a rt kernel package
[15:04:55] <skunkworks> Cool - I might have to try this.
[15:05:55] <skunkworks> nice work - looks like it would be much easier than the bdi + emc2
[15:06:21] <cradek> well it doesn't require compiling, and you get the advantage of a community-supported platform to run on
[15:06:36] <skunkworks> Is axis also installed?
[15:06:38] <cradek> so in my mind, there are a lot of advantages
[15:06:46] <cradek> yes, axis is installed
[15:06:50] <skunkworks> nice
[15:07:16] <les_w> hi chris, skunk
[15:07:20] <skunkworks> Hi
[15:07:35] <cradek> the ubuntu update manager is nice - when it finds updates, it prompts you, shows the changes you can expect, and lets you install them by clicking ok
[15:07:39] <cradek> hi les
[15:09:14] <skunkworks> sounds nice - they have a 64 bit version for the amd64 proccessors. Do you thinks this would work rt with emc2? Speed improvement?
[15:10:22] <jepler> skunkworks: I don't think anybody's yet used emc2 on a machine with a 64-bit kernel.
[15:10:50] <cradek> jepler: is my front page better on IE now?
[15:11:00] <jepler> skunkworks: I've read a few messages on the rtai mailing list that indicate a 64-bit realtime kernel is under development, but I'm not sure where the kernel patches are.
[15:11:03] <jepler> cradek: I'll check.
[15:11:23] <jepler> cradek: yes
[15:11:28] <cradek> thanks
[15:12:00] <skunkworks> no biggie - don't have a amd64 processor anyway ;)
[15:12:27] <jepler> I do (but it's not for emc development)
[15:14:40] <skunkworks> cradek - does it get emc2 from sourceforge - or do you make a package every so often?
[15:14:52] <cradek> I make packages every so often
[15:15:06] <cradek> I plan to make a new one every time we move the TESTING tag in cvs
[15:16:12] <cradek> lately there has been a new package every day or so - development has been thundering along at a pretty good pace
[15:16:33] <cradek> I hope we can keep it up right 'til the release
[15:16:35] <skunkworks> neet - so I would just redownload the emc2-istall.sh and then follow your install directions
[15:16:51] <cradek> no, you get a prompt on the screen that says an update is available
[15:16:58] <cradek> then you click OK
[15:17:00] <skunkworks> wow
[15:17:09] <skunkworks> nice work
[15:17:12] <cradek> just like the OS's updates
[15:17:20] <cradek> thank you
[15:17:25] <skunkworks> I think I am going to have to try it.
[15:17:31] <cradek> that's great
[15:17:59] <skunkworks> downloading the iso as we where talking
[15:18:43] <skunkworks> 4% ;)
[15:18:59] <cradek> you can also get ubuntu with bittorrent, sometimes that is faster
[15:19:31] <skunkworks> it is going as fast as I would expect from our connection here at work. around 50kbs
[15:19:56] <cradek> ooh, that's not very fast
[15:20:04] <cradek> still you'll have it today I guess
[15:20:30] <skunkworks> no - It would be faster at home but I don't have a way to burn iso's there yet
[15:20:40] <skunkworks> cheap burning software
[15:48:07] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you can also call ubuntu and have them send you free cd's
[15:53:11] <skunkworks> I see that
[15:53:16] <skunkworks> Hi alex
[15:53:32] <skunkworks> 16%
[15:53:36] <alex_joni> hi samco ;)
[16:23:53] <skunkworks> websys - are you supposed to get 7+ inches of snow also?
[16:24:11] <skunkworks> 28%
[16:29:34] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): get the version number into config.h, thanks alex
[16:30:32] <skunkworks> alex_joni: Do you know what was broken to cause emc2 to run slow. (in laymans terms) ;) I see John Kasunich mentioned in the list that there was an issue.
[16:30:55] <skunkworks> having to raise the base_period
[16:31:05] <cradek> I know
[16:31:10] <alex_joni> skunkworks: it's fixed now
[16:31:27] <alex_joni> and I know too, but I'll let chris have the pleasure to explain :D
[16:31:41] <skunkworks> I forgot to mention that John Kasunich said it was also fixed
[16:31:55] <cradek> there is an RTAI call that tells the time in nanoseconds
[16:32:09] <cradek> that was all over the realtime code, in order to tell how long things were taking
[16:32:30] <cradek> however that RTAI call is so slow it was taking much longer than the code it was meant to measure
[16:32:56] <cradek> so jmk replaced it with a scheme that measures in CPU clock cycles, not nanoseconds
[16:33:18] <cradek> this is a very quick measurement, but obviously the measurements are not as simple to interpret
[16:33:18] <skunkworks> that makes sense - thanks
[16:33:22] <alex_joni> skunkworks: was that layman anough?
[16:33:27] <skunkworks> very good
[16:33:36] <alex_joni> enough even.. can't type ;)
[16:33:55] <alex_joni> there is an awfull complexity if you start to look at these problems in detail
[16:34:45] <skunkworks> is there then something that then tests to see how many clock cycles there is in a certain amount of time? at startup maybe - to see what each clock cycle represents?
[16:34:58] <skunkworks> in time
[16:35:02] <cradek> no, but you can get that information from /proc/cpuinfo
[16:35:07] <skunkworks> ah
[16:35:32] <cradek> so now you just have to do a little math to get from cycles to seconds
[16:35:35] <skunkworks> there I go again - making things more complicatecx
[16:35:46] <alex_joni> skunkworks: but the problems gets worse, because the CPU freq might change on some processors
[16:36:02] <alex_joni> some turn the freq down on idle time, some stop it completely, etc
[16:36:10] <skunkworks> right - power saving and such - but I would think the rt kernal would disable that
[16:36:14] <alex_joni> it's a big mess that needs sorting out
[16:36:26] <alex_joni> some is HW in the CPU you can't control
[16:36:36] <skunkworks> makes sense
[16:36:51] <alex_joni> but it easily grows in complexity
[16:37:13] <alex_joni> you start with a simple task (measuring time), and end up with dependency and versioning hell
[16:37:39] <alex_joni> because you need to use a RTAI function that's consistent from 24.1.x to 3.0,3.1,3.2 and now 3.3 RTAI
[16:37:40] <skunkworks> I can imagine actually. Been in similar situations
[16:39:36] <skunkworks> again - you guys are doing great work.
[16:39:43] <skunkworks> Thank you
[16:43:48] <alex_joni> skunkworks: don't mention it ;)
[16:43:57] <alex_joni> or better yet, mention it :P
[16:44:33] <cradek> we also appreciate people using it and reporting their results, it helps a lot
[16:46:15] <alex_joni> indeed
[16:52:10] <skunkworks> On a side note - I think I finally got my car straitend out. Running 16psi to redline so far. no knock.
[16:52:19] <skunkworks> ended up being a tuning issue
[16:52:55] <skunkworks> I needed to tune to what ran right not what the numbers where telling me.
[16:54:20] <skunkworks> 41%
[16:55:04] <skunkworks> should be able to run 20-24psi with higher octane fuel or propane/alky injection.
[16:56:13] <skunkworks> oh - and bigger injectors.
[17:26:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): generate rtapi.conf from configure, not from a makefile
[17:27:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/bin/.cvsignore: new generated file
[17:37:58] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/module_helper/ (Submakefile module_helper.c): make emc_module_helper a bit more restrictive by taking the module extension from Makefile.inc instead of having two extensions
[20:16:27] <giacus> hello :)
[20:24:40] <k4ts> hello
[20:24:57] <k4ts> les_w: toc toc!
[21:30:51] <les_w> hi giacus and k4ts
[21:31:32] <k4ts> wueilaaaaa les_w
[21:32:17] <les_w> bleh...I could not find the formula for zero axial stress at the glue line for a two component composite beam.
[21:32:25] <les_w> So I had to derive it
[21:32:34] <les_w> the blackboard is full
[21:32:51] <giacus> O_O
[21:32:56] <giacus> hi les_w :)
[21:35:54] <les_w> just to prove the beam element thicknesss need to be the 1/square root of the young's modulus
[21:36:09] <les_w> I know I had that in scholl...
[21:36:13] <les_w> school
[21:36:16] <les_w> but forgot
[21:36:41] <giacus> uhm
[21:36:45] <les_w> haha
[21:36:52] <giacus> :D
[21:37:14] <les_w> don't worry, I get paid even to relearn what I forgot!
[21:37:22] <giacus> hehe
[21:38:31] <giacus> could be nice 1 gb ram bank in the head ..
[21:38:43] <giacus> My memory is very short :(
[21:39:22] <skunkworks> funny - I just spent an hour yesterday calculating a markup for pricing that we thought would have to be a formula. we had 2 equations - substiuted and simplified. It simplified to a constant ;)
[21:39:51] <les_w> for the first time I feel I am forgetting some school stuff
[21:39:58] <skunkworks> we where like "that can't be right" - but it was
[21:40:13] <les_w> I spent two or three hours on this
[21:40:31] <giacus> I smoke.. :( I think smoking damage the memory
[21:40:57] <giacus> thats a very bad thing
[21:41:08] <les_w> I want a glue line on a component that is two disks of differing materials.
[21:41:47] <les_w> what thickness ratio results in no tensile or compressive stress at the glue line?
[21:41:53] <les_w> that was the problem
[21:42:29] <les_w> thought it would pop right up in google
[21:42:33] <les_w> but it didn't
[21:42:41] <giacus> already tried wikipedia ?
[21:42:48] <les_w> sure
[21:43:06] <les_w> well, it's solved now...on the blackboard.
[21:43:59] <alex_joni> les_w: hello
[21:44:07] <les_w> hi alex
[21:44:11] <giacus> hi alex_joni
[21:44:14] <alex_joni> how's stuff?
[21:44:54] <les_w> oh, ok. Company is bugging me to travel and I still have not found a car.
[21:45:01] <alex_joni> heh
[21:45:08] <alex_joni> some have problems ...
[21:45:49] <alex_joni> I wanted to ask you something.. what's a normal feedrate on your emc machine?
[21:46:03] <les_w> for wood?
[21:46:22] <alex_joni> what can it do?
[21:46:36] <les_w> oh about 600 ipm
[21:46:36] <alex_joni> say without actual carving/machining
[21:46:48] <les_w> much more if I changed out the ballscrews
[21:46:48] <alex_joni> positioning speed, not rapids
[21:47:02] <les_w> yeah 600
[21:47:16] <alex_joni> that's 15m/min?
[21:47:28] <alex_joni> roughly
[21:47:33] <les_w> yup
[21:47:43] <skunkworks> Cradek?
[21:47:47] <skunkworks> cradek:
[21:47:56] <les_w> It is a combination wood/metal cutting machine
[21:48:04] <les_w> so 600 is enough
[21:48:16] <alex_joni> les_w: right, was just wondering as a reference
[21:48:23] <les_w> spindle hp limits cutting speed
[21:48:35] <alex_joni> I know of an emc2 user that is doing F9000 (mm) and not complaining
[21:48:53] <les_w> I usually don't run that high though because emc is pretty rough due to the tp
[21:49:52] <les_w> before the #ifdef in tp.c I could not run more than 120 or so without possible damage
[21:50:12] <alex_joni> well, maybe someday there will be a new TP
[21:50:13] <les_w> phone
[21:55:44] <cradek> skunkworks: yes?
[21:56:58] <skunkworks> Hi - I installed
[21:57:08] <cradek> how'd it go?
[21:57:12] <skunkworks> I installed Ubuntu
[21:57:18] <skunkworks> smooth - but
[21:57:20] <skunkworks> ;)
[21:57:37] <skunkworks> emc2 installed but when I run it I get the spash screen and that is it
[21:57:54] <skunkworks> the splash screen goes away and nothing
[21:57:58] <cradek> start a terminal and run emc at the prompt
[21:58:15] <skunkworks> where is it now - location
[21:58:20] <cradek> just type emc
[21:59:01] <cradek> so you get the config picker? what do you pick?
[22:00:02] <skunkworks> insmod error inserting ....
[22:00:08] <skunkworks> yes I get the picker
[22:00:11] <alex_joni> inserting what?
[22:00:28] <cradek> which config are you picking? sim? sim-AXIS?
[22:00:28] <skunkworks> let me log into here from there - then I can copy and paste
[22:00:33] <skunkworks> both
[22:00:41] <cradek> did you reboot?
[22:00:46] <cradek> I mean, after the install?
[22:00:49] <skunkworks> yes
[22:01:07] <cradek> ok let's have a look at the exact error message
[22:01:11] <alex_joni> skunkworks: can you open a terminal and run : 'uname -a'
[22:02:47] <sam__> wow that was easy
[22:02:59] <sam__> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/2.6.12-magma/kernel/adeos/adeos.ko': -1 File exists
[22:03:25] <sam__> insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.12-magma/modules/rtai_hal.ko': -1 File exists
[22:03:44] <alex_joni> sam__: seems like there is an emc already running, or not cleanly shutdown
[22:03:49] <sam__> get about 10 lines similar to that
[22:03:54] <alex_joni> easy or hard fix?
[22:04:03] <sam__> let me reboot again and see
[22:04:13] <alex_joni> ok, that's the easy fix :D
[22:04:25] <sam__> be back
[22:06:13] <skunkworks> I had run emc2 2 or 3 times with no results so it may have been runing somewhere in the back ground
[22:06:36] <cradek> yes, could be, let's try it at the shell first so you can see any error message
[22:06:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks: you probably chose sim, and didn't wait for mini to come up
[22:08:19] <sam__> back
[22:08:25] <sam__> RTAPI: ERROR: version mismatch 0 vs 529
[22:08:55] <cradek> ugh, that's a new one
[22:09:08] <sam__> do you want more or does that tell you? looks like rt wasn't installed correctly?
[22:09:31] <cradek> alex_joni: any idea?
[22:09:52] <alex_joni> looking now
[22:10:23] <alex_joni> sam__: can you get the exact first few lines?
[22:10:50] <sam__> Starting emc...
[22:10:50] <sam__> RTAPI: ERROR: version mismatch 0 vs 529
[22:10:50] <sam__> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[22:10:50] <sam__> IOCONTROL: ERROR: hal_init() failed
[22:10:50] <sam__> can't initialize the HAL
[22:10:51] <sam__> RTAPI: ERROR: version mismatch 0 vs 529
[22:11:14] <sam__> something I did again?
[22:11:46] <alex_joni> nope
[22:11:53] <alex_joni> it's an rtapi internal problem
[22:11:58] <sam__> the only thing I could say that I did was there was one update that I installed between when emc2 installed and I rebooted
[22:11:59] <alex_joni> SHMEM is not init'ed corectly
[22:12:19] <alex_joni> or it's inited somehow unexpected
[22:12:28] <alex_joni> I'm trying to figure out what's happening right now
[22:13:23] <alex_joni> cradek: the rtapi code uses some static revision code inside rtapi_common.h
[22:13:48] <cradek> but this works on several other machines!
[22:13:50] <alex_joni> the only way I'm seeing right now for this to happen is if you mixed a newer rtai_rtapi.c with an older rtapi_common.h
[22:14:08] <alex_joni> ok, if it does work on other machines, I'll keep looking :)
[22:14:15] <cradek> sam__: dpkg -l "emc2*"
[22:14:22] <cradek> sam__: what version number do you have?
[22:15:15] <alex_joni> ok, the second value 529 looks ok, the 0 looks like shm isn't working
[22:15:23] <alex_joni> or not properly..how about udev & co?
[22:16:27] <sam__> Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
[22:16:27] <sam__> | Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed
[22:16:27] <sam__> |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
[22:16:27] <sam__> ||/ Name Version Description
[22:16:27] <sam__> +++-==============-==============-============================================
[22:16:27] <sam__> ii emc2 2.0.0-alpha21 PC based motion controller for real-time Lin
[22:16:30] <sam__> ii emc2-axis 1.2a2-0.2 AXIS front-end for emc2
[22:16:32] <sam__> sam@ubuntu:~$
[22:16:49] <sam__> does that make sense?
[22:16:51] <alex_joni> sam__: can you open a console and type what I'm asking you?
[22:17:09] <alex_joni> sam__: as in be our eyes and fingers ;)
[22:17:18] <sam__> sure there right now - shoot away
[22:17:30] <alex_joni> lsmod | grep rtapi
[22:17:38] <cradek> ok, same as me
[22:17:54] <alex_joni> cradek: you mean the version
[22:17:58] <sam__> rtapi 25664 2 motmod,hal_lib
[22:17:58] <sam__> rtai_sem 14976 1 rtapi
[22:17:58] <sam__> rtai_shm 8192 1 rtapi
[22:17:58] <sam__> rtai_fifos 23500 1 rtapi
[22:17:58] <sam__> rtai_up 69400 4 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos
[22:17:58] <cradek> yes
[22:17:59] <sam__> rtai_hal 20888 5 rtapi,rtai_sem,rtai_shm,rtai_fifos,rtai_up
[22:18:29] <alex_joni> sam__: cd /proc/rtapi/
[22:18:32] <alex_joni> ls -al
[22:19:49] <sam__> total 0
[22:19:49] <sam__> dr-xr-xr-x 2 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:18 .
[22:19:49] <sam__> dr-xr-xr-x 95 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:05 ..
[22:19:49] <sam__> -rw-rw-rw- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 debug
[22:19:49] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 fifos
[22:19:50] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 modules
[22:19:52] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 sems
[22:19:54] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 shmem
[22:19:56] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 status
[22:19:58] <sam__> -r--r--r-- 1 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:19 tasks
[22:20:10] <alex_joni> sam__: cat shmem
[22:20:41] <sam__> **** RTAPI SHARED MEMORY ****
[22:20:42] <sam__> ID Users Key Size
[22:20:42] <sam__> RT/UL
[22:20:42] <sam__> 01 2/0 1212238881 65500
[22:20:42] <sam__> 02 1/0 111 172520
[22:21:09] <alex_joni> echo "5" > ./debug
[22:21:41] <sam__> nothing
[22:21:56] <alex_joni> I know
[22:22:03] <alex_joni> tail /var/log/messages
[22:22:04] <sam__> I didn't ;)
[22:22:13] <alex_joni> sam__: no worries
[22:22:41] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079551] HAL: creating thread base-thread, 50000 nsec
[22:22:41] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079615] HAL: thread created
[22:22:41] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079620] HAL: creating thread servo-thread, 1000000 nsec
[22:22:41] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079641] HAL: thread created
[22:22:42] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079646] HAL: creating thread traj-thread, 10000000 nsec
[22:22:44] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079656] HAL: thread created
[22:22:46] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079698] MOTION: setting Traj cycle time to 10000000 nsecs
[22:22:48] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079705] MOTION: setting Servo cycle time to 1000000 nsecs
[22:22:51] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079709] MOTION: init_threads() complete
[22:22:52] <sam__> Feb 15 16:07:12 ubuntu kernel: [ 136.079713] MOTION: init_module() complete
[22:23:06] <alex_joni> ok, RT part is working as it should
[22:23:16] <alex_joni> but the user-part is somehow borked
[22:23:36] <alex_joni> ls -al /dev/shm*
[22:24:39] <sam__> total 0
[22:24:40] <sam__> drwxrwxrwt 2 root root 40 2006-02-15 16:05 .
[22:24:40] <sam__> drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 0 2006-02-15 16:06 ..
[22:24:58] <cradek> it's /dev/rtai_shm
[22:25:07] <alex_joni> yes, what chris said
[22:25:15] <cradek> actually /dev/RTAI_SHM
[22:25:24] <alex_joni> huh? really??
[22:25:31] <cradek> there's a symlink iirc
[22:25:47] <alex_joni> I've never seen that before
[22:25:54] <alex_joni> but never mind..
[22:25:55] <cradek> a udev thing
[22:27:22] <alex_joni> sam__: still there?
[22:27:35] <alex_joni> ls -al /dev/RTAI_SHM
[22:28:22] <sam__> crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 10, 254 2006-02-15 16:07 /dev/RTAI_SHM
[22:28:35] <alex_joni> looks ok
[22:28:48] <alex_joni> cradek: so far I'm getting this:
[22:29:26] <alex_joni> RT part of shm & co is working, the user part does access SHM , can alloc space for new data, but the allocation is somehow borked
[22:30:04] <cradek> why would this be different on just sam's machine?
[22:30:21] <cradek> we know it's the same binaries
[22:30:35] <alex_joni> I can only imagine some bad checking
[22:30:54] <cradek> checking?
[22:31:00] <alex_joni> the initializing code is looking for a magic number
[22:31:02] <alex_joni> 0x12601409
[22:31:24] <alex_joni> if it's there, it assumes it's alreadyinitialized, and does nothing more
[22:31:46] <alex_joni> but I can't imagine that he's getting that value repeatedly (even after reboot) by chance
[22:33:08] <alex_joni> sam__: any way you could set up a ssh on that box?
[22:33:17] <alex_joni> is it connected directly to the internet?
[22:33:24] <sam__> yes
[22:33:29] <sam__> though a router
[22:33:33] <alex_joni> :(
[22:33:37] <sam__> ssh?
[22:33:41] <alex_joni> so not directly..
[22:33:49] <sam__> I could make this as the dmz
[22:33:49] <alex_joni> yes,for me to ssh in and look around
[22:34:18] <alex_joni> it might be helpfull, I have not many ideas, to ask of you, left...
[22:34:46] <sam__> If you tell me how to setup the ssh - I could set this internal ip as the DMZ
[22:34:48] <alex_joni> is it a web-based router? you could set up port forwarding for ssh, it usually is pretty simple
[22:34:55] <alex_joni> ssh should already be there
[22:35:03] <sam__> that to - what ever you want
[22:35:11] <alex_joni> whatever you think is simpler
[22:35:29] <alex_joni> can you see my /msg message?
[22:35:47] <cradek> to set up ssh is simply 'sudo apt-get install ssh'
[22:36:07] <alex_joni> I think it's already there,I didn't have to do that
[22:43:16] <cradek> sam__: is there anything unusual about your machine? is it extremely old or extremely new?
[22:44:05] <cradek> he must be working on his router
[22:44:24] <alex_joni> actually on ssh
[22:45:32] <cradek> run from the top menu: system/administration/services
[22:45:38] <cradek> turn on "remote shell server"
[22:46:04] <alex_joni> it's working, router is still icky
[22:46:20] <cradek> ok
[22:50:27] <Sparky_> Lo all
[22:51:10] <les_w> hi! you must be a EE?
[22:51:12] <les_w> heh
[22:51:20] <alex_joni> cradek: ssh is ok now
[22:51:41] <cradek> great
[22:51:56] <Sparky_> Just tried to build TESTING, run fails
[22:52:13] <Sparky_> I should add, this is Gene H.
[22:52:26] <alex_joni> hi Gene
[22:52:29] <alex_joni> what's wrong?
[22:52:35] <Sparky_> Hi alex
[22:52:54] <Sparky_> Well, let me see if a copy paste works brb
[22:53:38] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2$ scripts/emc &
[22:53:40] <Sparky_> [1] 14902
[22:53:41] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2$ EMC2 - TESTING-2006-02-14
[22:53:43] <Sparky_> Machine configuration directory is '/home/gene/emc2/configs/stepper/'
[22:53:44] <Sparky_> Machine configuration file is 'stepper_inch.ini'
[22:53:46] <Sparky_> Starting emc...
[22:53:47] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:49] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:50] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:52] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:53] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:54] <alex_joni> ok, you can stop
[22:53:55] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:56] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:58] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/home/gene/emc2/rtlib/rtapi.ko': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:53:59] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/home/gene/emc2/rtlib/hal_lib.ko': -1 Operation not permitted
[22:54:01] <Sparky_> ERROR: Could not load 'rtapi'
[22:54:02] <Sparky_> ERROR: Could not load 'hal_lib'
[22:54:02] <cradek> hi gene, I just answered your list email
[22:54:04] <Sparky_> Realtime system did not load
[22:54:05] <Sparky_> Shutting down and cleaning up EMC...
[22:54:07] <Sparky_> Cleanup done
[22:54:09] <Sparky_> [1]+ Exit 255 scripts/emc
[22:54:10] <cradek> I think you skipped the "sudo make setuid" setup
[22:54:15] <sam__> sorry - the machine is an ecs motherboard p4vmm2 -I don't remember the proccesor - is there a way to tell in here
[22:54:24] <Sparky_> Ahh, my mailer takes about 3 minutes inhouse.
[22:54:25] <alex_joni> Sparky_: you didn't configure --enable-run-in-place
[22:54:36] <Sparky_> Sure did
[22:54:38] <alex_joni> sam__: I can get that info now
[22:54:58] <alex_joni> cat /proc/cpuinfo
[22:54:58] <alex_joni> processor : 0
[22:54:58] <alex_joni> vendor_id : GenuineIntel
[22:54:58] <alex_joni> cpu family : 15
[22:54:58] <alex_joni> model : 2
[22:55:00] <alex_joni> model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
[22:55:03] <alex_joni> stepping : 9
[22:55:05] <alex_joni> cpu MHz : 1800.365
[22:55:08] <alex_joni> cache size : 512 KB
[22:55:08] <sam__> alex - that is a little scary
[22:55:10] <alex_joni> fdiv_bug : no
[22:55:13] <alex_joni> hlt_bug : no
[22:55:15] <alex_joni> f00f_bug : no
[22:55:18] <alex_joni> coma_bug : no
[22:55:20] <alex_joni> fpu : yes
[22:55:23] <alex_joni> fpu_exception : yes
[22:55:25] <alex_joni> cpuid level : 2
[22:55:28] <alex_joni> wp : yes
[22:55:31] <alex_joni> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe cid xtpr
[22:55:34] <alex_joni> bogomips : 3555.32
[22:55:36] <alex_joni> scarier than moving your mouse around?
[22:55:50] <sam__> I think sow
[22:55:52] <sam__> so
[22:56:12] <Sparky_> No, I did a sudo make setuid too. I even copied all that to a script and ran it the first time, adding the cvs up -rTESTING to the top of the script
[22:56:29] <alex_joni> Sparky_: you didn't ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[22:56:41] <alex_joni> sam__: still working?
[22:56:44] <Sparky_> Yes I have, 3 times now
[22:57:02] <alex_joni> Sparky_: paste src/Makefile.inc
[22:57:27] <skunkworks> did I just lock up?
[22:57:49] <Sparky_> Ok, but first, heres the script
[22:57:57] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2$ cat switch2TEST
[22:57:58] <Sparky_> #!/bin/bash
[22:58:00] <Sparky_> cd /home/gene/emc2
[22:58:01] <Sparky_> cvs up -rTESTING
[22:58:03] <Sparky_> cd src
[22:58:04] <Sparky_> ./configure --enable-run-in-place
[22:58:06] <Sparky_> make clean
[22:58:07] <Sparky_> make
[22:58:09] <Sparky_> sudo make setuid
[22:58:10] <Sparky_> cd ..
[22:58:12] <Sparky_> scripts/emc &
[22:58:13] <Sparky_> exit 0
[22:59:10] <skunkworks> alex?
[22:59:13] <alex_joni> skunkworks: yup, sorry
[22:59:24] <alex_joni> I just ran a RTAI testsuite test
[22:59:32] <alex_joni> and it crashed
[22:59:33] <Sparky_> Humm, sorry, /home/gene/emc2/src has no such file
[22:59:44] <skunkworks> do you want me to reboot?
[22:59:48] <alex_joni> Sparky_: that is NOT possible
[22:59:53] <alex_joni> skunkworks: please do
[22:59:54] <cradek> Sparky_: ls -l /home/gene/emc2/bin/emc_module_helper
[23:00:42] <Sparky_> -rwxr-xr-x 1 gene gene 32127 2006-02-15 17:17 /home/gene/emc2/bin/emc_module_helper
[23:01:10] <alex_joni> Sparky_: ls -l /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile*
[23:01:16] <Sparky_> Whats not possible Alex?
[23:01:25] <alex_joni> that Makefile.inc is not there
[23:01:27] <cradek> go to /home/gene/emc2/src again, do the sudo make setuid
[23:01:46] <cradek> those permissions are wrong
[23:02:12] <skunkworks> alex_joni - back up
[23:02:38] <skunkworks> do you still want to look around?
[23:02:40] <Sparky_> Thats crazy Chris, its there and I can't 'see' them, but
[23:02:44] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ ls -l /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile*
[23:02:46] <Sparky_> -rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 16283 2006-02-15 16:54 /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile
[23:02:47] <alex_joni> skunkworks: I'm going for that test again
[23:02:47] <Sparky_> -rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 3947 2006-02-15 17:15 /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile.inc
[23:02:49] <Sparky_> -rw-r--r-- 1 gene gene 3284 2006-02-14 22:13 /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile.inc.in
[23:02:50] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$
[23:03:05] <alex_joni> skunkworks: if it crashes again, please reboot :/
[23:03:44] <skunkworks> ;)
[23:03:46] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ pwd
[23:03:48] <Sparky_> /home/gene/emc2/src
[23:04:05] <alex_joni> ok, so Makefile.inc is there
[23:04:15] <alex_joni> but as chris said the permissions are not right
[23:04:29] <alex_joni> issue the 'sudo make setuid' manually
[23:04:55] <Sparky_> Damned if I know guys, heres an ls of that dir I'm sitting in the pwd output
[23:05:06] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ ls
[23:05:07] <Sparky_> blocks.ko encoder.mod.o hal_m5i20.mod.o hal_tiro.o scope_rt.o
[23:05:09] <Sparky_> blocks.mod.c encoder.o hal_m5i20.o libnml siggen.ko
[23:05:10] <Sparky_> blocks.mod.o encoder_ratio.ko hal_motenc.ko Makefile siggen.mod.c
[23:05:12] <Sparky_> blocks.o encoder_ratio.mod.c hal_motenc.mod.c Makefile.inc siggen.mod.o
[23:05:13] <Sparky_> classicladder_rt.ko encoder_ratio.mod.o hal_motenc.mod.o Makefile.inc.in siggen.o
[23:05:15] <Sparky_> classicladder_rt.mod.c encoder_ratio.o hal_motenc.o Make.rules stepgen.ko
[23:05:16] <Sparky_> classicladder_rt.mod.o freqgen.ko hal_parport.ko module_helper stepgen.mod.c
[23:05:18] <Sparky_> classicladder_rt.o freqgen.mod.c hal_parport.mod.c motmod.ko stepgen.mod.o
[23:05:19] <Sparky_> CodingStyle freqgen.mod.o hal_parport.mod.o motmod.mod.c stepgen.o
[23:05:21] <Sparky_> config.h freqgen.o hal_parport.o motmod.mod.o Submakefile.skel
[23:05:22] <alex_joni> that's ok
[23:05:22] <Sparky_> config.h.in hal hal_ppmc.ko motmod.o supply.ko
[23:05:24] <Sparky_> config.log hal_ax5214h.ko hal_ppmc.mod.c objects supply.mod.c
[23:05:25] <Sparky_> config.status hal_ax5214h.mod.c hal_ppmc.mod.o pid.ko supply.mod.o
[23:05:27] <Sparky_> configure hal_ax5214h.mod.o hal_ppmc.o pid.mod.c supply.o
[23:05:28] <Sparky_> configure.in hal_ax5214h.o hal_skeleton.ko pid.mod.o tests
[23:05:30] <Sparky_> CVS hal_evoreg.ko hal_skeleton.mod.c pid.o threads.ko
[23:05:31] <Sparky_> debounce.ko hal_evoreg.mod.c hal_skeleton.mod.o po threads.mod.c
[23:05:33] <Sparky_> debounce.mod.c hal_evoreg.mod.o hal_skeleton.o rtapi threads.mod.o
[23:05:34] <Sparky_> debounce.mod.o hal_evoreg.o hal_stg.ko rtapi.ko threads.o
[23:05:36] <Sparky_> debounce.o hal_lib.ko hal_stg.mod.c rtapi.mod.c timedelay.ko
[23:05:38] <Sparky_> depends hal_lib.mod.c hal_stg.mod.o rtapi.mod.o timedelay.mod.c
[23:05:40] <Sparky_> doxconfig hal_lib.mod.o hal_stg.o rtapi.o timedelay.mod.o
[23:05:42] <Sparky_> emc hal_lib.o hal_tiro.ko scope_rt.ko timedelay.o
[23:05:44] <Sparky_> encoder.ko hal_m5i20.ko hal_tiro.mod.c scope_rt.mod.c
[23:05:46] <Sparky_> encoder.mod.c hal_m5i20.mod.c hal_tiro.mod.o scope_rt.mod.o
[23:05:48] <Sparky_> So where is Makefile.inc
[23:05:50] <Sparky_> ????
[23:06:04] <alex_joni> a few lines above
[23:06:17] <alex_joni> 01:10 < Sparky_> blocks.o encoder_ratio.mod.c hal_motenc.mod.c
[23:06:18] <alex_joni> Makefile.inc siggen.mod.o
[23:06:21] <Sparky_> And even an sudo ls doesn't show them to me???????
[23:06:52] <alex_joni> what do you mean doesn't show? it's right there in front of you
[23:06:58] <sam__> can you see my chat alex?
[23:07:28] <alex_joni> no, not sure about dcc chat
[23:07:31] <Sparky_> Damn I'm going blind this ls doesn't sort the same way this machines does.
[23:07:33] <alex_joni> but let's use /msg
[23:08:26] <Sparky_> Ok got a cat of it, it big, what do you want to see
[23:08:30] <Sparky_> ?
[23:09:32] <alex_joni> nothing :)
[23:09:39] <alex_joni> type:sudo make setuid
[23:09:42] <alex_joni> it should work then
[23:10:22] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ sudo make setuid
[23:10:24] <Sparky_> Makefile:5: /Makefile.inc: No such file or directory
[23:10:25] <Sparky_> Makefile:67: depends/rtapi/_ulapi.d: No such file or directory
[23:10:27] <Sparky_> make: *** No rule to make target `rtapi/_ulapi.c', needed by `depends/rtapi/_ulapi.d'. Stop.
[23:10:46] <Sparky_> And I didn't get that error any of the previous times I did it???
[23:11:26] <Sparky_> cd'd to /home/gene/emc2/src...
[23:13:28] <Sparky_> The diff is that I'm ssh'd into it now, before I was on its keyboard
[23:14:21] <cradek> Sparky_: echo $PWD
[23:14:48] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ echo $PWD
[23:14:49] <Sparky_> /home/gene/emc2/src
[23:15:42] <Sparky_> Should I save my stepper_inich.ini and just blow this away and get a new checkout?
[23:15:57] <cradek> Sparky_: edit Makefile, change on line 5 $(PWD) to `pwd`
[23:16:20] <Sparky_> ok, brb
[23:17:10] <cradek> argh, that won't work
[23:17:31] <cradek> wonder why bdi loses $PWD with sudo
[23:17:44] <Sparky_> Douh why not
[23:17:51] <cradek> Sparky_: give me a minute.
[23:18:05] <Sparky_> Or do we need to put that in a pair of ``?
[23:19:03] <Sparky_> That didn't fly either
[23:20:36] <cradek> Sparky_: change line 5 to say: include /home/gene/emc2/src/Makefile.inc
[23:21:15] <fenn> les_w: I got 23 hot chicks hangin' out in my living room: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0600.JPG
[23:21:48] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ vim Makefile
[23:21:50] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ make
[23:21:52] <Sparky_> make -C /usr/src/kernel-source- SUBDIRS=/home/gene/emc2/src CC=gcc-2.95 V=0 -o /usr/src/kernel-source- modules
[23:21:53] <Sparky_> make[1]: Entering directory `/usr/src/kernel-source-'
[23:21:55] <Sparky_> Building modules, stage 2.
[23:21:56] <Sparky_> MODPOST
[23:21:57] <Sparky_> make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/kernel-source-'
[23:21:59] <Sparky_> cp *.ko ../rtlib/
[23:22:01] <Sparky_> You now need to run 'sudo make setuid' in order to run in place.
[23:22:02] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ sudo make setuid
[23:22:03] <Sparky_> chown root ../bin/emc_module_helper
[23:22:05] <Sparky_> chmod 4750 ../bin/emc_module_helper
[23:22:07] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$
[23:22:08] <Sparky_> So that might have worked, test time, watch for smoke...
[23:22:53] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2/src$ cd ..
[23:22:54] <Sparky_> gene@shop:~/emc2$ scripts/emc
[23:22:56] <Sparky_> EMC2 - TESTING-2006-02-14
[23:22:57] <Sparky_> Machine configuration directory is '/home/gene/emc2/configs/stepper/'
[23:22:59] <Sparky_> Machine configuration file is 'stepper_inch.ini'
[23:23:00] <Sparky_> Starting emc...
[23:23:03] <Sparky_> insmod: error inserting '/lib/modules/': -1 File exists
[23:23:03] <Sparky_> iniFind is depreciated
[23:23:05] <Sparky_>
[23:23:06] <Sparky_> But its running!!!!
[23:23:15] <alex_joni> you'll only get that once
[23:23:22] <alex_joni> the next time it will be cleaned ok
[23:23:26] <Sparky_> I figure
[23:23:35] <alex_joni> the rtai_math is still in there because of the last attempts
[23:23:46] <Sparky_> Now lets see if it can run 3D_Chips
[23:24:00] <cradek> ok the (one?) problem is that $PWD is lost on bdi's sudo, so sudo make setuid fails.
[23:24:35] <alex_joni> $PWD comes from @PWD@ from Makefile.inc, right?
[23:24:48] <cradek> no, it comes from the shell
[23:25:01] <Sparky_> joint 1 following error
[23:25:03] <Sparky_> emc/task/taskintf.cc 787: Error on axis 1, command number 342
[23:25:04] <Sparky_> EMC_TOOL_ABORT
[23:25:05] <cradek> your current directory is always $PWD in the environment
[23:25:11] <alex_joni> oh, ok
[23:25:27] <Sparky_> BUT... This was at a feed override of 250%!!
[23:27:01] <alex_joni> cradek: then maybe just use `pwd`?
[23:28:54] <Sparky_> I've sen syntax like $`pwd/rest_of_name before I think
[23:29:20] <Sparky_> I've seen syntax like $`pwd`/rest_of_name before I think
[23:32:05] <cradek> alex_joni: no, it needs to not change for the kbuild part
[23:34:14] <Sparky_> Chris: Have you looked at tp.c recently?
[23:34:31] <cradek> Sparky_: I sense this is a loaded question
[23:34:48] <Sparky_> One could say that I guess :)
[23:34:50] <alex_joni> cradek: it's a trick question, don't answer
[23:34:51] <alex_joni> :D
[23:35:45] <Sparky_> Well, I was asking to see if I could take those N095G4P.0001's back out of 3d-chips.ngc
[23:36:03] <cradek> Sparky_: I think the direction-reversing bug is fixed.
[23:36:28] <Sparky_> Ok, lemme check, brb
[23:39:53] <Sparky_> Yippers, its gone. I'd forgotten that I had commented that line before. I just ran it up to 234% feed override before it got a tummy ache, and thats faster than my motors can go.
[23:40:25] <cradek> if you have your ini set right, feed override honors the constraints
[23:40:37] <Sparky_> But ATM, any joint error detected is forever as it comes back with every stroke of the F2 key
[23:41:01] <cradek> yeah, that's a reported bug - it will eventually go away if you keep hitting F2
[23:41:02] <Sparky_> That is I think, something in my .ini file thats way off level...
[23:41:23] <cradek> yeah, you should not get following errors, no matter what the feed override.
[23:41:53] <Sparky_> It can also be reduced to a one time reset with the right settings in the .ini file. I had it that way a week ago but wanted more speed.
[23:42:55] <Sparky_> Ahh, Chris, but I still am. My PERIOD is at 50u-s, can I now lower that, it feels peppier than befoire thats for sure
[23:44:27] <cradek> yes, you can now lower that, that bug is fixed too
[23:46:27] <Sparky_> Ok, trying 45u-s now
[23:46:35] <Sparky_> running at 200%
[23:47:00] <Sparky_> running at 220%
[23:47:24] <Sparky_> running at 230%
[23:47:48] <Sparky_> Now 240%
[23:48:20] <Sparky_> Going to try 40u-s now
[23:50:19] <Sparky_> And thats ok so far at 240%, faster than my motors
[23:51:35] <Sparky_> running at 280%, the backplot is flying compared to thee max speed of these motors
[23:52:24] <Sparky_> And at BASE_PERIOD=40u-s, I can just barely feel the lag, it WILL go lower yet I'm sure
[23:52:55] <alex_joni> what box?
[23:55:19] <Sparky_> Joint 2 error at end of first downstroke, feed override=300%, BASE_PERIOD=35u-s
[23:55:42] <Sparky_> And it still feels good, so 30u-s is next
[23:58:44] <Sparky_> Joint 2 error at end of first downstroke, feed override=350%, BASE_PERIOD=30u-s, machine still feels good