#emc | Logs for 2006-02-13

[00:16:30] <cradek> new emc2, emc2-dev, axis (1.2a2) packages in the breezy repository
[00:50:50] <jepler> cradek: yay
[00:51:10] <jepler> cradek: I'll try them out later tonight
[00:55:01] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[00:59:28] <giacus> night
[03:14:39] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[03:48:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: If a directory was in the list twice, it led to an error.
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> added rtapi_get_clocks() to RTAPI. It turns out that the RTAI function behind
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> rtapi_get_time() is dog slow. HAL was using rtapi_get_time() to measure how
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> long each block takes to execute, but the 'time measuring' function was actually
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> taking far longer than the thing it was supposed to measure. The times
[03:48:52] <CIA-8> displayed by HAL as .time and .tmax are now in clock cycles instead of
[03:48:56] <CIA-8> nanoseconds, but the speed improvement is worth it.
[03:52:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: Make sure INIFILE is an absoulte path, because the following code assumes it. "that's probably easiest, but it hurts a bit" -- cradek
[04:00:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: unintended consequence when run with no args
[04:01:00] <jepler> thanks
[04:04:50] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: give the tree focus, so it's not necessary to tab before using up/down keys
[04:09:16] <CIA-8> 03jepler * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: make double click on the tree invoke the OK action
[04:09:21] <jepler> goodnight all
[04:09:42] <cradek> goodnight, thanks
[04:10:18] <jmkasunich> goodnight jepler
[04:23:40] <cradek> new emc2, emc2-dev, emc2-axis packages in the breezy repository (again)
[09:49:54] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[13:37:20] <cncuser> hi folks
[13:37:52] <cncuser> does any of you use 2.6.15... kernels ?
[13:38:28] <cncuser> i dont quite get the adeos ipipe thingy. the newest patch i aplied didnt have a ADEOS option in it
[13:39:26] <cncuser> ... im intend to put together a new puppysit with 2.4.31 &
[13:40:07] <cncuser> adeos-ipipe-2.6.15-i386-1.2-00.patch
[13:40:13] <cncuser> that patch i talk abpout, btw
[13:44:22] <cncuser> anyone familiar with the way the adeos-rtai-emc work together ? does emc have to care about ipipe ?
[13:51:16] <cncuser> i got http://download.gna.org/adeos/patches/attic/v2.6/i386/adeos-linux-2.6.13-i386-r13.patch its alittle older. it has CONFIG_ADEOS. but has mucho rejects
[13:51:19] <cncuser> hmmm
[13:54:15] <jepler> I don't know; I wish I did.
[13:54:38] <cncuser> jepler: im trying to get the rejects fixed with the above patch. lets see
[13:54:40] <cncuser> hi btw ;)
[13:54:42] <jepler> hello
[13:57:49] <cncuser> jepler: could please again tell me what pythonlibs are needed ? :) i lost oit in some diskimage on some harddisk i dont remember where i put :)
[13:58:26] <cncuser> i put it on the wiki. its a safe place i hope
[13:59:13] <jepler> cncuser: I had a program that mostly generated the required files .. let me see if I can find that
[13:59:42] <cncuser> jepler: yes, you did that nifty tool. and also once told me some links to listings of files
[13:59:50] <cncuser> you did with it
[14:00:32] <jepler> the lists I found on my website: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/python-for-axis.files http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/python23.zip.txt
[14:01:11] <jepler> It looks like the script is there too: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/freeze_axis.py
[14:01:11] <cncuser> thanks
[14:01:20] <jepler> I haven't touched it since that day we talked about it a few months ago
[14:02:28] <cncuser> jepler: yes, me neither :)
[14:03:28] <cncuser> jepler: i just wanted to build some nice emccdrom and now im going to do a lfs or rocklinuxbased livecddistro with some puppy features.
[14:04:50] <cncuser> jepler: is there a way to make axis detect if the gui is metric but the gcode doesnt have the required command in it and just assume it is there ?
[14:05:06] <cncuser> or does this break some stuff ?
[14:05:32] <jepler> cncuser: It might be possible, but such a feature doesn't exist yet.
[14:05:52] <jepler> cncuser: I believe it's a bad gcode file that does not begin with a g20 or g21 code
[14:06:49] <cncuser> jepler: ok. then, hmm. if axis is a nice gui, it should tell you about it and maybe give you the option to PREPEND it via the gui ?
[14:08:06] <cncuser> axis shows theres something wrong in beautiful graphics :)
[14:59:36] <jepler> cncuser: I've committed a change that makes AXIS use the configuration option [EMC]RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE the same way emc does. This is now in the latest snapshot, and will be in the eventual 1.2a3 release unless it creates a problem.
[14:59:59] <jepler> cncuser: this might help lazy users who don't want to write correct g-code
[15:00:07] <jepler> cncuser: right up 'till they send their file to somebody else
[15:04:50] <cncuser> jepler: hmm, now i feel bad
[15:05:20] <cncuser> jepler: how about a messagebox ? fullscreen, red on black background 42pt letters... ;)
[15:06:45] <cncuser> SLEFDESTRUCT AVTIVATET
[15:07:00] <cncuser> ALL YOU GCODE ARE BELONG TO US
[15:07:08] <cncuser> ;)
[15:07:49] <jepler> I thought about that, but this is easier to do.
[15:08:03] <jepler> and there are probably a lot of things that a true "g-lint" program would check
[15:08:25] <jepler> "warning: your tool will probably break on line 333 when you g0 3 inches into the workpiece"
[15:09:27] <cncuser> hehe, yes that would be great
[15:09:29] <cncuser> :)
[15:10:51] <cncuser> id love to make axis know different tools and materials and you just say m-whatever plexiglas or aluminium. that + spindlespeed + power + machinespeed + power should all be calculatet so the user should not have to wporry about breaking tools :)
[15:11:29] <cncuser> of course i talk about hobby machinery or minimal rapid prototyping setups, not industrialstyle
[15:12:26] <cncuser> .. /scale
[15:13:01] <cncuser> what i really miss is a godd camsoftware
[15:13:17] <cncuser> i havent managed to get a eps with some curves into a usable gcode file
[15:13:43] <cncuser> the beziers get broiken up into a few points and it all look like crap
[15:14:48] <cncuser> i can conver6t it to svg... it looks nice in inkscape. but i have no clou on how to continue from here. cam.py doesnt produce usable output.
[15:15:10] <cncuser> so i got ps/eps, svg
[15:15:25] <jepler> well, there is no gcode for bezier curves
[15:15:32] <jepler> so you have to break them up into lines
[15:15:43] <cncuser> jepler: hmmm
[15:15:53] <cncuser> jepler: arent there circles with gcode ?
[15:16:02] <cncuser> os it all points ?
[15:16:03] <jepler> there are arcs
[15:16:08] <cncuser> arcs cool
[15:16:10] <jepler> but beziers are not arcs
[15:16:18] <cncuser> ok, but arcs are round right
[15:16:33] <cncuser> hmm, lets see if inkscape knows arcs
[15:18:17] <cncuser> hmm, ok
[15:18:21] <cncuser> it knows it
[15:18:22] <cncuser> fine
[15:18:38] <cncuser> so all there is with gcode is arcs and lines ?
[15:19:00] <cncuser> so if i keep my vectordata on that objects it should easily be gcodeconvertable ?
[15:19:48] <jepler> G2 and G3 are the codes for arcs
[15:23:07] <jepler> but see http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/bez.c
[15:23:43] <cncuser> harhar
[15:23:56] <cncuser> nice if youre into math and or c ;)
[15:23:59] <jepler> this program takes a bezier defined by 4 points (two endpoints and two control points) and uses a subdivision algorithm to create a series of lines that are always within 'epsilon' of the true path of the bezier curve
[15:24:48] <jepler> perhaps you'd be happier if I re-wrote it in Python for you
[15:24:58] <cncuser> jepler: hehe, thanks, not really
[15:26:14] <cncuser> jepler: i think i need to rework some basics before this would be usefull.
[15:33:37] <jepler> cncuser: if you're talking about the same 'cam.py' I found in a web search, it looks like 'nverts' (set with commandline option -#) controls how many pieces a bezier is divided into. Maybe you can try giving a higher number and see if the curves improve.
[15:47:33] <cncuser> jepler: i allready use -1000 but dont see any difference..
[15:47:43] <cncuser> jepler: but i think its related to my datas
[15:47:47] <cncuser> -s
[15:59:22] <skunkworks> bbl
[15:59:27] <skunkworks> :)
[20:46:03] <Jymmm> hi ray!
[20:57:58] <rayh> Hey How you doing?
[21:03:57] <Jymmm> not too shabby, otp w/ mfg
[21:04:25] <Jymmm> ok, off the phone
[21:04:40] <Jymmm> Called a MDF mfg asking about painting
[21:05:07] <Jymmm> no suggestions other than a denser core
[21:07:07] <Jymmm> rayh hows thing sin your neck of the woods?
[21:07:50] <rayh> Good. Lots of snow. Sunshine today so life is good.
[21:07:57] <Jymmm> lol
[21:08:08] <Jymmm> No snow in these parts... ever!
[21:11:06] <rayh> Just wait.
[21:11:17] <rayh> I'll send some your way.
[21:11:35] <Jymmm> cool! Snow in 68 degreee weather!
[21:11:39] <Jymmm> snowman
[21:23:47] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[21:57:16] <jepler> Many integrated H-bridges have a charge pump and "boot capacitor". I don't understand why a higher voltage than the drive voltage is required. Can anyone explain it to me simply?
[21:57:54] <alex_joni> DC bridges?
[21:57:56] <jepler> I assume that it has something to do with making sure the upper transistors turn off completely, but isn't the drive voltage enough to ensure that?
[21:58:10] <jepler> alex_joni: Yeah, for running a bipolar stepper motor
[21:59:19] <alex_joni> jepler: depends on the transistur used
[21:59:30] <alex_joni> the more expensive way is to use p and N typed
[21:59:52] <alex_joni> P for low? and N for high, iirc (it might be the other way around, I tend to mix those)
[22:00:14] <alex_joni> but that's more expensive like I said
[22:00:42] <alex_joni> so usually only P-type is used (cheaper), but instead you need negative voltages to close it fully
[22:01:17] <alex_joni> I don't think the boot capacitor is related to that, more likely to starting a DC motor, which needs higher voltage
[22:01:35] <alex_joni> but I might be awfully worng :)
[22:13:44] <jepler> I can't accept that you're wrong. You clearly know more about this than me.
[22:14:07] <alex_joni> I should..
[22:14:16] <alex_joni> but I don't really ;)
[22:14:35] <alex_joni> I've read somewhere the Charge cap allows greater PWM speed
[22:14:49] <alex_joni> having higher voltage might reduce switchings, so that makes sense
[22:19:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:19:42] <alex_joni> night all
[22:20:40] <giacus> Night
[22:38:02] <dmessier> hi all
[22:46:26] <Jymmm> hola
[22:52:49] <dmessier> wanna buy a 14 yr old boy
[22:53:14] <cradek> can he run a milling machine?
[22:59:46] <dmessier> probably quite welll IF you can get him up and out in the morning
[23:00:52] <dmessier> id trade for a 19 yr old girl but the wife seems to think thats NOT right
[23:01:34] <bill2or3> better trade her away..
[23:02:44] <dmessier> i figure 1 - 38 yr old for 2 19's is a fair trade...
[23:02:59] <bill2or3> the math doesn't lie.
[23:05:33] <Jymmm> dmessier sounds fair to me
[23:07:10] <Jymmm> dmessier: The 14yo boy, does he come with his own cattle prod?
[23:08:09] <dmessier> the wife hasnt let me use it... so i guess you can have it
[23:08:39] <Jymmm> dmessier: Deal... ship the kid in dry ice
[23:09:12] <Jymmm> that should cure his sleeping habbits for about a week.
[23:10:18] <dmessier> he eats like a large MULE/ small elk.... be prepared
[23:10:40] <Jymmm> oats are cheap
[23:11:35] <dmessier> if he's slept for a week you'll need a moderate size heafer for breakfast and 3-4 dozen eggs or the chickens they come from
[23:12:00] <dmessier> he has 2 hallow legs
[23:12:08] <dmessier> hollow
[23:12:36] <Jymmm> Nah, will put him on an all oat diet + suppliments
[23:13:35] <dmessier> he doesnt mind oat meal but he IS a meat eater as his dad is..
[23:14:11] <Jymmm> For a treat well toss him some pig ears, snout, and chitlands!
[23:14:58] <fenn> kibbles n bits n bits n bits
[23:15:07] <dmessier> what part is the chitlands???
[23:15:07] <Jymmm> fenn too expensive
[23:15:31] <dmessier> pls say it is the nuts?
[23:15:56] <Jymmm> close... intestines of young pigs
[23:16:02] <Jymmm> chitlins
[23:16:16] <dmessier> cleaned???
[23:16:18] <cradek> why is he for sale anyway? I sense there's a story to be told
[23:16:32] <dmessier> like in suasage makin's???
[23:16:52] <Jymmm> http://www.foodreference.com/html/fchitterlings.html
[23:16:53] <dmessier> sale my ass... ill ship for free
[23:17:22] <Jymmm> dmessier: Just shut off the electricity in his room.
[23:17:46] <dmessier> he's a mouthpiece whop wont pull his weight...
[23:18:06] <fenn> buy him "diet for a small planet"
[23:18:21] <dmessier> thinks 24 - 7 internet access and the latest pc it his GOD given RIGHT....
[23:18:53] <Jymmm> dmessier I'm telling ya... kill the juice. and all that won't matter much.
[23:19:03] <dmessier> ENAYTHING else is juts fackin Bshite
[23:19:09] <Jymmm> dmessier LOL setup a timer on the electricity... random too
[23:20:07] <dmessier> he's in the basement now... and i haventreplaced the floros in 2 yrs... so he cant find my tool boxes
[23:20:26] <Jymmm> hell, take the door off his room and put up a curtain.
[23:20:42] <dmessier> he has a lamp... his guitar... and pc.... and a clock...
[23:21:12] <dmessier> no door... i biatch about the noise all the time...
[23:21:15] <Jymmm> but no juice, no pc, no internet, no chattiing, no email ,etc
[23:21:38] <Jymmm> no stereo, no tv
[23:21:57] <dmessier> you coming over to play referee when i SHUT ER DOWN
[23:22:19] <dmessier> call 911 at the top of the stairs....
[23:23:09] <dmessier> 14 yrs old 150 lbs and treined to fight by ME for the first 8 yrs.... i hate when i do that
[23:23:38] <Jymmm> lol
[23:23:56] <dmessier> he can hurt most ppl with 1 finger..
[23:23:58] <Jymmm> threatin to send him to military school
[23:24:23] <Jymmm> or africa
[23:24:30] <dmessier> tried that already... he told me hed kill enm all and stilll escape
[23:24:49] <dmessier> i believe him ; )
[23:24:50] <Jymmm> africa it is then
[23:25:15] <dmessier> brb/....
[23:36:53] <giacus> night
[03:49:06] <jmkasunich> hmm - I actually thought about the bug you just fixed, but it was in the middle of something else and I forgot about it
[03:49:47] <jmkasunich> now I just have to hope that rdtsc is implemented on all the compile farm slots
[03:52:09] <cradek> ?
[03:52:15] <cradek> what bug I just fixed?
[03:52:45] <jmkasunich> oh, it was jepler
[03:52:53] <jmkasunich> duplicate dirs in configs-path
[03:53:09] <cradek> ah
[03:54:25] <jepler> I think rdtsc exists on true pentiums, and anything newer from intel. It at least exists on K6es and newer from AMD. Not sure about oddballs.
[03:55:19] <cradek> wonder if I should make new packages now
[03:55:33] <jmkasunich> dunno
[03:55:47] <jmkasunich> I'd let the compile farm run thru its paces first
[03:55:52] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich goes to start it
[03:56:36] <cradek> chris@buster2:/usr/src/emc2$ scripts/emc
[03:56:36] <cradek> sed: -e expression #1, char 0: no previous regular expression
[03:56:36] <cradek> Machine configuration directory is ''
[03:56:36] <cradek> Machine configuration file is ''
[03:57:49] <jmkasunich> did you hit cancel or OK?
[03:58:05] <cradek> neither, this is before that
[03:58:08] <cradek> I see the problem
[03:59:08] <cradek> jepler's change has an unintended consequence when emc is run with no args
[03:59:13] <jepler> cradek: oops!
[03:59:50] <jepler> you want me to fix it
[03:59:50] <jepler> ?
[03:59:58] <cradek> I'm already typing commit
[04:00:12] <cradek> done
[04:00:32] <jepler> thanks
[04:00:59] <jmkasunich> interesting time behavior here... parport write is very consistent at about 5200 clocks, but a couple times a second it jumps to 12000 clocks or more
[04:02:39] <cradek> jmkasunich: does it sometimes do more than one outb?
[04:02:51] <jmkasunich> it always does the same number
[04:02:55] <jmkasunich> which is 2
[04:03:04] <jmkasunich> one to the data port, one to the control port
[04:03:15] <jmkasunich> HAL provides all the outputs, even if they aren't in use
[04:03:35] <cradek> emc1 would skip the outbs if those outputs had not changed
[04:03:37] <jmkasunich> I can get flurries of the long ones when I move the mouse
[04:03:47] <cradek> huh
[04:04:52] <jmkasunich> one reason for things to get long during other activity is cache
[04:05:09] <jmkasunich> if the only thing running is RT code, it remains in cache from one thread execution to the next
[04:05:11] <cradek> jepler: can you make doubleclick work while you're in there?
[04:05:23] <jmkasunich> if lots of user space stuff is going on, cache gets overrwitten
[04:06:47] <jmkasunich> that probably accounts for the small scale jitter
[04:06:59] <jmkasunich> there is a hard floor at about 5100 clocks
[04:07:31] <jmkasunich> then a distribution of runs that vary from 5100 to about 5300 (most under 5125)
[04:09:20] <jmkasunich> then nothing between 5400 and 12000
[04:09:42] <jmkasunich> 12000 to 15000 happen maybe 1% of the time
[04:09:51] <jmkasunich> when very active
[04:11:45] <jmkasunich> drat
[04:11:56] <jmkasunich> jepler used [ file normalize ]
[04:12:09] <jmkasunich> that isn't available on older tcl (pre 8.4)
[04:12:12] <cradek> oops
[04:12:42] <jmkasunich> dunno if thats a factor or not for emc
[04:13:13] <cradek> do you have any idea what tcl versions are on what bdis?
[04:13:20] <cradek> obviously it's ok for ubuntu
[04:13:28] <jmkasunich> I'm trying to figure out what I have here
[04:13:40] <jmkasunich> tclsh --version and similar doesn't work
[04:14:05] <cradek> chris@buster2:~$ tclsh
[04:14:05] <cradek> % info tclversion
[04:14:05] <cradek> 8.4
[04:14:27] <jmkasunich> same here
[04:14:31] <jmkasunich> I'll check the farm
[04:16:01] <jmkasunich> BDI-2.x has 8.0, BDI-TNG has 8.3, BDI-Live has 8.4
[04:16:18] <cradek> so it's fine right now?
[04:16:23] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:16:37] <jmkasunich> -2.x and -TNG are on the chopping block IMHO
[04:17:37] <cradek> and it's looking worse and worse for them as work continues
[04:20:21] <jmkasunich> quite a weekend
[04:20:41] <jmkasunich> 45 commits "yesterday" (CIA is on UTC I think)
[04:20:54] <jmkasunich> 122 so far this month
[04:22:07] <cradek> wow
[04:23:03] <jmkasunich> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/emc
[04:23:25] <jmkasunich> we've averaged a commit every 7.5 hours for almost a year and a half
[04:23:44] <cradek> new emc2, emc2-dev, emc2-axis packages in the breezy repository (again)
[04:23:50] <jmkasunich> cool
[04:24:13] <cradek> hope I got everything in there
[04:24:41] <jmkasunich> compile farm is happy (two slots anyway), so my rtapi change didn't bust anything
[04:24:49] <jmkasunich> its a shame we can't actually test on the far
[04:24:52] <cradek> great
[04:24:57] <jmkasunich> I can't see any way to automate it tho
[04:25:19] <cradek> you could insert and remove a module, but that's a lousy test.
[04:25:46] <jmkasunich> the only real test would be to start emc and run 3dchips or something
[04:25:52] <cradek> yeah.
[04:26:01] <cradek> probably can't do that automated.
[04:26:08] <jmkasunich> and even that only tests a fraction of the system - only one gui, only one config
[04:26:30] <jmkasunich> as far as you can tell, the current HEAD will compile and run both in place and installed?
[04:26:37] <cradek> yes
[04:27:04] <jmkasunich> we need to make a tarball while it is pseudo-stable, before the next wild session like these last few days
[04:27:22] <jmkasunich> and we need to communicate some changes, like --enable-run-in-place
[04:27:25] <cradek> maybe it's better to make tags
[04:27:41] <jmkasunich> the timing bug is significant enough that I want to announce the fix
[04:27:41] <cradek> there's nowhere to put a tarball where people will look for it.
[04:27:54] <jmkasunich> alex was/is hosting daily tarballs
[04:28:04] <jmkasunich> but you're right, gotta point people to them
[04:28:10] <cradek> yeah, but I don't think anyone is using them unless cvs breaks
[04:28:38] <jmkasunich> tags can be moved, right?
[04:28:43] <cradek> sure
[04:28:55] <jmkasunich> so we could have a tag TESTING, that always points to the latest reasonable stable thing
[04:29:07] <cradek> yes I think we could
[04:29:17] <jmkasunich> and a wiki page that tells testers both how to get it and compile it, and what to expect
[04:29:45] <cradek> IMO that's what my debs are for
[04:29:45] <jmkasunich> "foo is known not to work, but bar and baz should, if they don't please report it"
[04:30:04] <cradek> I make a new one when I think something important has changed, and everything's in a sane state
[08:23:47] <alex_joni> cradek: just fyi, make tgz is not working at the moment, we might want to add that back
[08:24:23] <LawrenceG> HiAlex... latest debs are not working either
[08:24:51] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: yes they are, since last night
[08:25:07] <LawrenceG> logo var is missing from pickconfig.tcl
[08:25:16] <LawrenceG> and my config dirs are empty
[08:25:54] <LawrenceG> /etc/emc2/sample-configs/stepper has NO files
[08:27:01] <LawrenceG> if fixed logo var by adding >>set logo ""<< at line 36 of pickconfig.tcl
[08:28:02] <LawrenceG> I seem to be missing emc2-wizard.gif as well which shoed up the logo error
[08:28:29] <LawrenceG> showed
[08:29:29] <LawrenceG> Those files must not be in the debs.... I removed and installed emc2 several times even a fresh deb download
[08:30:30] <LawrenceG> I was hoping to test the timing fixes on this old 200mhz unit
[08:45:34] <LawrenceG> I can see the files in the deb, the config dirs get created, but the ini files are not being placed into the directories
[08:46:50] <LawrenceG> To test, uninstall emc2 and rm -rf /etc/emc2, then reinstall deb
[08:57:17] <alex_joni> where did you get the debs from?
[08:57:35] <LawrenceG> cradek: In case you didnt catch above.... latest emc2 debs contain but do not install any sample configs... /etc/emc2 has sample dirs, but no contents... a du /etc/emc2 shows only 52 blocks
[08:57:53] <LawrenceG> from the .ro repository
[08:58:06] <alex_joni> dunno, not sure, probably not fully done yet
[08:58:13] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has a plane to catch in an hour
[08:58:28] <LawrenceG> np.... I need to get to bed... 1am here
[08:58:53] <LawrenceG> I had a version from a couple of days ago working
[08:59:07] <LawrenceG> lots of changes this weekend... good show
[09:09:22] <alex_joni> indeed
[09:49:48] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for a while
[09:49:54] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[12:35:02] <cradek> LawrenceG: if you dpkg --purge emc2 and then apt-get install emc2, do you get config files?
[17:16:07] <cradek> ok I think I reproduced the problem, not sure if I understand it fully
[17:16:17] <cradek> if you apt-get remove emc2, it preserves the configuration files in /etc
[17:16:32] <cradek> if you remove them with rm, it also preserves that (?)
[17:17:28] <cradek> so ... don't do that
[17:17:45] <cradek> dpkg --purge emc2 and then reinstall should fix your problem
[18:10:09] <LawrenceG> cradek: Thanks... that has restored the sample ini's. When running stepper-inch, /usr/bin/milltask errors out when trying to load librs274.so.. a search of my hd does not find this file anywhere
[19:11:46] <cradek> LawrenceG: I fixed that - updated packages available
[19:22:40] <LawrenceG> cradek: Thanks... downloading now
[19:24:36] <cradek> LawrenceG: should be smooth from here on - alpha19 was the first package I made with the new build system.
[19:25:37] <LawrenceG> cradek: np... hope I havent been a pest... the deb idea is fantastic....
[19:26:08] <cradek> not at all, I really appreciate your testing and good bug reports
[19:26:43] <cradek> you are helping make this smooth for when we make the big release
[19:26:52] <LawrenceG> yea... the more people that can try out the new stuff, the faster its gets stable
[19:28:55] <LawrenceG> running cds now in sepper_in YEA!!
[19:29:02] <cradek> yay!
[19:31:30] <LawrenceG> it runs quite well on a P200.....
[19:32:10] <cradek> great, jmk made an important fix yesterday that should have made it run much faster (reduced BASE_PERIOD possible)
[19:37:14] <LawrenceG> axis-sim seems to be another story... I get a blank axis window and 100% cpu usage forever...maybe some update is being scheduled faster than it can run... no errors on cmd line
[19:38:11] <cradek> hmm
[19:38:19] <cradek> can you run other opengl programs like glxgears?
[19:38:26] <LawrenceG> buy faster computer
[19:40:48] <LawrenceG> that could be the problem..... glxgears comes up, runs a few revs and stalls out... hmm this is an old matrox card
[19:41:29] <cradek> I'm surprised, but Mesa, the software GL renderer, might have trouble on such a slow machine
[19:41:35] <LawrenceG> I get an update about every 20 seconds... xorg is the cpu hog
[19:41:54] <cradek> hmm, doesn't seem like it should be that slow.
[19:43:33] <LawrenceG> its so slow I can see it rendering each face of each tooth!
[19:44:53] <LawrenceG> let me check my xorg config and see what is turned on
[19:45:14] <cradek> you could try turning off DRI
[19:47:52] <LawrenceG> hmmm I notice in the Module sectopn, that I am loading GLcore... that may be the matrox accellerator
[19:48:13] <LawrenceG> as I understand it, that may be bad with RT?
[19:48:20] <cradek> no, that's fine I think
[19:48:36] <cradek> but try commenting out Load "dri"
[19:48:39] <cradek> if you have it
[19:48:56] <cradek> also if your screen depth is 24 or 32, change it to 16
[19:49:13] <LawrenceG> ok its there... should I comment out the dri mode 0666 as well?
[19:49:23] <cradek> I don't think it matters
[19:50:12] <LawrenceG> default depth is 16
[20:00:51] <LawrenceG> strange.... tried a few more setting combinations... no real change... glxgears runs about 3 revs and thenslows to a crawl. The good news is that its not an EMC2 problem. Cheers... gotta run... doing tax stuff today... would rather be making chips :}
[20:01:08] <cradek> ok good luck with taxes
[20:01:51] <LawrenceG> I may try another video card later
[20:33:19] <rayh> cradek: I've got both installed and rip versions of testing here. I like what I see of it. I've got a couple of questions about halconfig in relation to the "new world order."
[20:37:08] <cradek> ok shoot
[20:37:23] <cradek> rayh: did you make install, or use the deb?
[20:37:31] <rayh> make install
[20:37:47] <rayh> I don't have ubuntu yet. This is 4.30 bdi
[20:37:51] <cradek> ok
[20:38:02] <rayh> from a couple hours ago.
[20:38:28] <rayh> My vision for halconfig was that it would be able to start, without HAL or EMC running.
[20:38:31] <cradek> btw I am working on making the update friendlier - I hope to get it to show the changelog for the new version of the packages before you decide to update (like the system packages do)
[20:38:47] <rayh> Oh. Good.
[20:38:58] <cradek> ok
[20:39:12] <cradek> does that still require a running hal and halcmd?
[20:39:27] <rayh> aside On the make install. Should there be a make uninstall?
[20:39:31] <cradek> I'm still fuzzy about how halconfig works
[20:39:55] <cradek> the problem with make uninstall is that it can't determine whether you have modified files (like configs). Typically packages do not have a make uninstall.
[20:39:56] <rayh> Details are not critical right now.
[20:40:24] <cradek> ok I'll let you ask the questions and I'll try to answer them
[20:40:33] <rayh> It's been a long time since I ran an MS system but there was a package remover.
[20:40:59] <cradek> make install is from a time before package management - if you use the deb packages, you can certainly remove them cleanly
[20:41:31] <rayh> If halconfig found am rt system it would offer to start an empty HAL
[20:41:31] <cradek> I see people using make install only on systems that don't have package management, or are so out of date there aren't packages
[20:42:22] <rayh> I guess I was thinking I'd like to remove the installed version.
[20:43:15] <rayh> No matter
[20:43:16] <cradek> you'll have to do that by hand then - /usr/local/etc/emc2, /usr/local/share/doc/emc2? a few files in /usr/local/bin, a few files in /usr/local/lib
[20:43:44] <cradek> we could write a make uninstall if we decide it's necessary
[20:43:45] <rayh> What halconfig did was start realtime or the most basic demo script.
[20:44:12] <cradek> ok so you want it to be able to do a realtime start
[20:44:23] <cradek> does it have to do anything else?
[20:44:55] <rayh> Once realtime is going, it drops into ordinary halconfig mode with tree and all.
[20:45:12] <cradek> ok
[20:45:20] <cradek> so it needs to know two things: where is realtime, where is halcmd
[20:45:22] <rayh> But what I seem to be missing on the installed version is a way to get halconfig to start.
[20:45:46] <jepler> Isn't halconfig on $PATH when running installed?
[20:45:48] <rayh> The installed version is fairly easy to find these.
[20:45:51] <cradek> currently it knows neither of those things: the halcmd location comes from the environment
[20:45:58] <jepler> er, halcmd
[20:46:05] <rayh> What isn't easy is to find and start halconfig.
[20:46:13] <cradek> jepler: only when a child of the emc script
[20:46:29] <cradek> jepler: oh I reread, you're right
[20:46:35] <rayh> I see two immediate choices.
[20:46:58] <cradek> rayh: if you want the user to invoke halconfig directly, it should go in the bin dir
[20:47:15] <cradek> rayh: currently it's off in some script directory
[20:47:16] <rayh> rip out the environmental testing and always start it from tkemc, mini, axis. etc.
[20:47:36] <rayh> That choice is easy.
[20:48:26] <cradek> we might rename it to emc-halconfig and put it in bin, for instance
[20:48:43] <cradek> we intend to have emc-configuration or something like that to run setupconfig
[20:48:50] <rayh> True.
[20:49:21] <cradek> now, you do not need root privs to start realtime, so that is not a problem
[20:49:47] <cradek> I don't see any big stumbling blocks, just some playing with the installation is necessary
[20:49:49] <rayh> But if it's installed, I don't need the startup testing for things like MS and rtxx
[20:50:17] <cradek> I don't follow - what are MS/rtxx
[20:50:34] <rayh> Those are tests at the start of halconfig.
[20:50:45] <cradek> let me pull it up
[20:51:17] <rayh> I guess the real question I have is how does halconfig fit in with other scripts like setupconfig.
[20:51:44] <rayh> BTW I really like the new look of the chooser.
[20:51:58] <cradek> sounds like setupconfig and halconfig are very similar - we want the user to be able to run them without emc running
[20:52:05] <rayh> the tree widget is great.
[20:52:19] <cradek> so they will be in the path (and there will be menu entries on the system Apps menu to start them)
[20:52:26] <cradek> great, I like it too, very much
[20:52:36] <cradek> it's an elegant solution to multiple config directories
[20:53:16] <rayh> Okay. That works.
[20:53:30] <cradek> rayh: already with installed, if you copy a config into your home directory ~/emc2/configs/configname, it will show up on the chooser
[20:54:04] <cradek> rayh: setupconfig will do just that (and there is also a system-wide config directory)
[20:54:13] <rayh> That's great.
[20:54:49] <cradek> your personal configs show up on top, then the systemwide configs, then the samples on the bottom
[20:55:20] <rayh> jmk was talking about user configurable things. will display color and font be a part of this like they are with other linux apps?
[20:55:43] <jepler> The color and font selections for Tk applications are customizable through the X resource database
[20:56:15] <jepler> but Tk is not "themeable" in the modern sense
[20:56:16] <rayh> Ah we we have never been very successful at keeping that location for TkEmc alive.
[20:57:34] <rayh> It does require work on the "option" database for each display.
[20:58:04] <cradek> tk is sometimes finicky when you markedly change font sizes for instance
[20:58:23] <cradek> but things like colors are easy to change
[20:58:30] <rayh> Yep. Font is better in 8.5 but ...
[20:58:57] <rayh> What I'm thinking of is a .myconfig file in the users home directory.
[20:59:20] <cradek> there is a standard X way of doing that involving a file in the home directory called .Xresources
[20:59:36] <cradek> it would then be handled without any special code in tkemc
[20:59:58] <cradek> have you had a lot of requests for this kind of customization?
[21:00:32] <rayh> Some. More like help it looks bad.
[21:00:58] <jepler> chew chew chew
[21:01:03] <cradek> maybe we need to work on the defaults a bit then
[21:01:17] <cradek> but "help it looks bad" doesn't help us much, does it
[21:01:42] <rayh> These come from several sources. One is KDE's config all apps alike.
[21:02:06] <cradek> yeah, but we won't have that kind of themability without a total rewrite of the guis.
[21:02:20] <cradek> to me, that doesn't seem like an important goal right now.
[21:02:34] <cradek> we would have to ditch tcl/tk and start over.
[21:02:39] <rayh> KDE does it now to tkemc. Mini is already close to their default colors and fonts.
[21:03:23] <cradek> KDE themes show up in tkemc?? There must be something at work I don't know about.
[21:04:25] <jepler> cradek: KDE writes some X resources
[21:04:27] <rayh> I know nothing about how it works but it does change bg, fg and some fonts.
[21:04:42] <cradek> ok, that much is easy
[21:04:53] <cradek> getting 3D buttons etc. is impossible
[21:05:54] <cradek> maybe getting rid of the blue, in favor of a more standard gray look, would help
[21:06:34] <rayh> I guess I was thinking less about hard coded stuff than an approach to user configuration.
[21:07:01] <rayh> TK has color choosers and font choosers and such.
[21:07:06] <cradek> like jepler said, that's already possible with X resources but it's hardly friendly.
[21:08:10] <cradek> you could definitely make a preferences screen and write the results to a file in the user's home directory to be read when tkemc starts
[21:08:46] <rayh> Okay. I'll salt that away for a later release.
[21:08:47] <jepler> but .. but .. the X resources database already exists!
[21:09:27] <jepler> the answer to "our GUIs look terrible" should not involve "let's write another GUI application to solve that problem"
[21:10:25] <rayh> Good thought.
[21:11:32] <cradek> I'm pretty sure I would duck out of any gui-improvement part of the project; I put that energy into AXIS. That's not to say I think it shouldn't/couldn't be done.
[21:11:39] <jepler> we should strategically add a few configuration options (like using a non-bold font by default, and some white backgrounds), after which Tk looks a lot more modern .. at least like a win95-era program.
[21:12:09] <cradek> yes, that might help a surprising amount.
[21:12:26] <rayh> All of that can be done in TkEmc.
[21:12:29] <cradek> I think sometimes "sensible defaults" are better than all the configurability in the world.
[21:12:42] <cradek> yep
[21:13:10] <rayh> Then we would just need to replace snapshots of the old with the new.
[21:13:17] <rayh> In several hundred places.
[21:13:24] <cradek> including the splash screen
[21:13:59] <rayh> ouch.
[21:14:23] <cradek> no problem. alex said the splash screen was a quick hack (but I think it's really good)
[21:15:11] <rayh> Would TkEmc be editable by a user in the installed emc2?
[21:15:27] <cradek> using sudo, it sure is
[21:16:55] <cradek> if a user customizes it and then installs a new deb, the deb install will give an option of keeping the customizations or using the new distributed file
[21:17:03] <rayh> phone
[21:23:47] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[21:23:51] <alex_joni> hello
[21:24:39] <cradek> hi alex
[21:24:42] <cradek> I thought you were away
[21:26:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni couldn't stay away
[21:26:57] <alex_joni> :-P
[21:27:13] <alex_joni> I'm in the hotel right now, it's good that wireless works
[21:27:25] <cradek> yay
[21:27:46] <cradek> the new config selector looks and works great
[21:27:47] <alex_joni> btw, you've got mail
[21:28:37] <alex_joni> it already did last night
[21:29:40] <alex_joni> cradek: got my email?
[21:29:50] <cradek> yes, looking
[21:30:00] <alex_joni> ok, eager to know what you think
[21:31:07] <cradek> I like 06
[21:31:45] <alex_joni> like.. like? or really like?
[21:32:12] <rayh> Hi alex.
[21:32:13] <cradek> it looks nice
[21:32:19] <alex_joni> hi ray
[21:32:22] <cradek> I like the globe thing
[21:32:55] <alex_joni> how about the logo?
[21:33:37] <cradek> it's cute but I think the pengiun should have a tool of some kind
[21:33:44] <cradek> or just safety glasses?
[21:33:47] <cradek> something
[21:33:50] <alex_joni> yeah, something
[21:33:55] <alex_joni> btw, I like 06 better too
[21:34:04] <alex_joni> rayh: care to look at a picture?
[21:34:13] <alex_joni> 500kB about
[21:34:24] <rayh> Sure send it on.
[21:34:30] <alex_joni> email?
[21:34:32] <rayh> or send a link
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> link is better I think, let me put it someplace
[21:34:48] <rayh> k
[21:38:06] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/linuxCNC_06.jpg
[21:38:27] <alex_joni> thanks chris
[21:38:27] <cradek> unfortnately it's huge because someone made a jpg when it should have been png
[21:38:37] <alex_joni> don't want to abuse the wireless here
[21:38:43] <alex_joni> cradek: you can convert :D
[21:38:52] <cradek> it's too late, it'll look terrible
[21:39:10] <alex_joni> probably so
[21:39:37] <cradek> I assume this is not the final content... the part about viruses is silly
[21:39:53] <alex_joni> that's taken from the current site
[21:40:04] <cradek> uh I assume this is not the final content... the part about viruses is silly
[21:40:06] <alex_joni> I just pointed him some URL to take sample data from
[21:40:20] <alex_joni> cradek: :-)
[21:40:59] <alex_joni> cradek: it will be a CMS, so you can fix what you don't like :P
[21:41:14] <cradek> I think putting safety goggles on the logo would be just enough of a twist to make it cute/funny
[21:41:39] <alex_joni> how about we collect some ideas, and I'll get back to the designer
[21:41:42] <alex_joni> and we'll see
[21:41:45] <cradek> sure
[21:42:18] <cradek> also http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/linuxCNC_08.jpg but I don't care for it much
[21:42:53] <cradek> I particularly dislike the out-of-focus macintosh keyboard
[21:43:43] <alex_joni> I don't really like it either
[21:43:50] <alex_joni> I mean it's ok, but barely
[21:44:52] <jepler> I prefer 06 too
[21:45:50] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[21:46:26] <jepler> hi alex
[21:46:48] <alex_joni> greetings from germany
[21:51:15] <jepler> how's germany?
[21:51:35] <alex_joni> nice so far, but it's dark ;)
[21:52:21] <jepler> Yes, at this time of night it probably is
[21:53:05] <jepler> you should come to the US .. it isn't dark yet, except in metaphor
[21:53:31] <rayh> Where are you in Germany, alex_joni
[21:53:33] <alex_joni> lol, I'm not scared of metaphor-typed dark
[21:53:48] <alex_joni> rayh: near freiburg (near switzerland and france)
[21:54:09] <rayh> Ah.
[21:54:20] <alex_joni> south-west
[21:54:59] <rayh> Right.