#emc | Logs for 2006-02-09

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[15:43:51] <fenn> woo this is fun to listen to http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=2805
[15:47:44] <les_w> oh, neat. that happens to be close to me...
[15:48:21] <cradek> les_w: something is close to you?
[15:49:07] <fenn> mindless spending of money is dear to his heart
[15:50:39] <les_w> haha
[15:50:51] <les_w> how do I hear the bids?
[15:51:20] <fenn> click on "listen live" button
[15:51:24] <les_w> k
[15:51:44] <fenn> 50 bucks for a cheap chinese drill press
[15:51:56] <fenn> weird
[15:54:40] <les_w> yeah
[15:59:03] <les_w> i don't see any listen live button...have to sign up to get it?
[15:59:24] <SWPadnos> it's Bid Now / Vierw Live
[15:59:27] <SWPadnos> View
[15:59:44] <SWPadnos> then you click on the "I'm not registered, lemme look anyway" button
[16:02:10] <fenn> i'm actually bidding on this auction.. http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/event.php?event=2822
[16:03:07] <SWPadnos> gonna get some gene splicing equipment?
[16:03:18] <fenn> ayup :)
[16:03:35] <fenn> gonna make me some pig-dogs
[16:03:36] <SWPadnos> d00d - a black panasonic tape recorder
[16:04:22] <fenn> that's vintage.. want it?
[16:04:28] <SWPadnos> nope
[16:04:30] <SWPadnos> thanks
[16:04:33] <SWPadnos> had one
[16:06:32] <SWPadnos> I winder what the shipping is for the granite conference table and 10 leather rolling chairs?
[16:06:35] <SWPadnos> wonder
[16:06:48] <fenn> i hope to be getting a bunch of the lab chairs
[16:07:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - some of the office setups look nice (the desk/chair ... sets)
[16:09:46] <les_w> I wish I had known about this sooner...a little late to sign up
[16:09:53] <fenn> eh sorry
[16:09:57] <les_w> heh
[16:09:58] <SWPadnos> hmmm - a mini centrifuge and/or a nic ebalance-type scale would be cool
[16:10:14] <SWPadnos> or a microscope, for that matter
[16:10:23] <les_w> I have a couple
[16:10:33] <fenn> those microscopes are pretty wild
[16:10:38] <SWPadnos> ship one to 05452 then ;)
[16:13:09] <les_w> mill coming up
[16:13:24] <les_w> damn this stuff is only 100 miles from me
[16:14:12] <SWPadnos> les - a new business opportunity for you:
[16:14:17] <SWPadnos> http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/photo.php?photo=2716784&date=Feb-09&time=10:00
[16:14:24] <fenn> oh man i dont think i'm gonna win anything.. people are bidding on the stupidest things
[16:14:28] <SWPadnos> (never thought you could make money from that :) )
[16:15:13] <fenn> chickens will swallow sawdust and die if it's too fine
[16:15:24] <SWPadnos> chicken = bird brain
[16:15:26] <les_w> ah mill for 875
[16:15:30] <fenn> that stuff's more like mulch
[16:15:55] <fenn> les_w: is that a good deal? kinda hard to tell without poking at it
[16:15:58] <SWPadnos> it's just funny to see computers, generators, lab equipment, and wood shavings ...
[16:16:51] <SWPadnos> hey, can you gouy take a look at these, and tell me what size motor you think they're for?
[16:17:01] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7588770751
[16:17:37] <SWPadnos> the motor mounting holes just don't look quite far enough apart to be NEMA42
[16:18:30] <fenn> yeah probably nema30 or whatever 3" is
[16:18:40] <SWPadnos> 34
[16:18:57] <SWPadnos> they look nice, other than that
[16:19:01] <fenn> ok each nub on the belt is probably 0.2"
[16:19:15] <fenn> er, drat not 0.2"
[16:19:23] <SWPadnos> could be, either 1/5" (XL), or 3/8" (L)
[16:19:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm - actually, the bearings are 7204, so they're 1.85" or so OD
[16:20:08] <SWPadnos> 47 mm, I think
[16:20:13] <fenn> ack $750 for those
[16:20:23] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's a great deal if they fit ;)
[16:20:29] <fenn> are you serious?!
[16:21:08] <fenn> maybe i'll get into the motor bracket business
[16:21:09] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:21:23] <SWPadnos> they're amazingly expensive for BP sized mills
[16:21:44] <fenn> you'd think people that make stuff all day would know how to make their own brackets.. sheesh
[16:21:56] <SWPadnos> Anilam sells their mounts (only) for $1900 for X+Y, and $1600 for Z
[16:22:07] <SWPadnos> well - chicken and egg problem
[16:22:16] <fenn> bah
[16:22:32] <fenn> birdbrain problem.. don't know how to crank the handles
[16:22:42] <SWPadnos> plus, look at the amount of metal missing - I'd have to buy a block of Al that's 8x4x14, then mill away more than half of it
[16:23:01] <SWPadnos> that's a lot of CNC time, and a big hunk of metal
[16:23:03] <fenn> you're not making a space shuttle you know
[16:23:13] <SWPadnos> (the metal alone would be in the $125 range)
[16:23:24] <SWPadnos> I know that
[16:23:33] <fenn> i would make it out of 1/2" plate and weld the guards on it
[16:23:44] <SWPadnos> the bearing position needs to be very precise
[16:24:40] <SWPadnos> if you mount the motor extending out from the table (for the X axis), then you need two mounting surfaces that are at least 1.5" apart, because the motor shaft is pointing in the opposite direction from the ballscrew shaft
[16:25:00] <SWPadnos> so you have two plates, plus "risers"
[16:25:09] <SWPadnos> plus the beraing mount
[16:25:12] <SWPadnos> bearing
[16:25:50] <SWPadnos> I've started a design that just attaches to the existing bearing mount, but even that's a pain, and starts out with a large block of metal
[16:27:12] <fenn> the motor crashes into the table if it's pointing left?
[16:27:42] <fenn> er, with the motor to the left of the belt/pulley when in front of the machine
[16:29:42] <SWPadnos> most mounts (this one included) point the motor body away from the spindle (shaft toward the spindle)
[16:30:09] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to design one that has the motor parallel to the table, and in front of it
[16:31:03] <SWPadnos> it's not that easy, because it blocks the front slot, and there's not a lot of room between the table and the Y handle (if you leave it on)
[18:05:06] <bill2or3> hi.
[18:07:04] <fenn> les_w: there goes a VF-9 for the low low pricee of $70k
[18:08:16] <bill2or3> anyone ever made thier own spindle?
[18:11:01] <fenn> yeah.. i hear semi trailer taper roller bearings work pretty well for the price
[18:11:11] <bill2or3> hmmm
[18:11:25] <fenn> i just used bronze bushings though.. go figure
[18:11:35] <bill2or3> I'm planning on doing small stuff, so I'll need a pretty fast spindle
[18:11:40] <fenn> ah
[18:11:52] <bill2or3> also, those Centent stepper drivers are still at $50, if anyone needs some
[18:11:55] <fenn> angular contact ball bearings are prolly your best bet
[18:11:56] <bill2or3> just dont out-bid me.
[18:12:27] <bill2or3> the guy has 18 of them, I'm the only bidder so far.
[18:12:41] <fenn> well they ain't goin anywhere quick
[18:12:51] <bill2or3> yeah, I'm kind of suprised.
[18:13:16] <bill2or3> I got my gingery mill book, it looks pretty decent
[18:14:11] <fenn> i wanna tenCent stepper driver..
[18:14:27] <bill2or3> heh.
[18:14:39] <bill2or3> if he re-lists the rest cheaper I may get an extra set.
[18:15:30] <bill2or3> any opinions on a fixed spindle ofer an X-Y table versus a moving spindler over a 'X' sliding table?
[18:15:52] <bill2or3> I'm thinking the fixed-position(except Z) spindle will be more rigid.
[18:16:17] <fenn> i like the van norman design
[18:16:25] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 googles
[18:16:41] <fenn> x/y table, knee, quill, sliding ram in Y
[18:16:50] <fenn> and the head swivels 90 degrees to be vertical or horizontal
[18:17:10] <fenn> so you can slide the ram all the way back and the knee up for extreme rigidity
[18:19:07] <bill2or3> hmm.
[18:45:14] <fenn> sigh.. there goes my centrifuge for $3000
[18:45:22] <fenn> it's not even worth $500
[18:46:14] <bill2or3> boo.
[18:46:27] <bill2or3> what do you need a centrifuge for?
[18:46:32] <fenn> nothin..
[18:46:49] <bill2or3> sounds like most of the crap I buy.
[19:28:15] <alex_joni> robin_sz: are you around?
[20:22:45] <robin_sz> alex_joni: no not at the moment
[20:52:17] <robin_sz> fenn halve a look for "butler elgamill" on the 'net .. sounds similar to your design
[20:52:53] <les_w> oh hi robin
[20:53:28] <fenn> wow that's big
[20:53:42] <les_w> actually got some prussian blue on my hands today
[20:53:49] <fenn> 5 meter table..
[20:53:57] <les_w> had to make a jacobs taper adapter
[20:54:43] <les_w> got it close by tapping the compound angle....then prussian blue and die stones for an exact fit
[20:54:47] <robin_sz> fenn; they come in various sizes, but the ram for the head, that swivels on a 45 degree facet is interesting ...
[20:54:50] <fenn> jmk had a page about the van norman 12 but it's down now..
[20:55:28] <bill2or3> how did it come out les?
[20:55:36] <robin_sz> hey les
[20:56:10] <robin_sz> not seen yo about much .. buyt then I am rarely on
[20:56:17] <robin_sz> too much work these days :
[20:56:20] <robin_sz> )
[20:56:34] <les_w> the taper adapter? blue spots on the whole surface...
[20:56:36] <les_w> haha
[20:57:45] <les_w> Well I have had a break while my piezo stuff is made over on your side of the pond
[20:58:05] <robin_sz> ok.
[20:58:20] <robin_sz> still looking good to go is it?
[20:58:33] <les_w> But I have been upgrading the shop wiring and some other stuff
[20:58:39] <robin_sz> right ...
[20:58:48] <les_w> yeah...way good to go
[20:58:50] <robin_sz> Ive been so busy, ive been running two shifts
[20:59:06] <les_w> if it works...I get to manufacture it
[20:59:08] <robin_sz> thats the good bit
[20:59:12] <les_w> yeah
[20:59:15] <les_w> way good
[20:59:28] <robin_sz> you have a problem though ....
[20:59:37] <les_w> ?
[20:59:44] <robin_sz> you'll need those wotsits ..
[20:59:46] <robin_sz> you know ..
[20:59:52] <robin_sz> wetware.
[21:00:06] <robin_sz> mmm ... STAFF
[21:00:25] <les_w> it will have to be in atlanta or greenville sc
[21:00:33] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:00:36] <les_w> back to long commutes
[21:00:49] <les_w> actually I would rent a place there
[21:00:51] <robin_sz> you aint going to find skilled assembly staff were you are
[21:00:59] <les_w> and come back to the farm on weekends
[21:01:17] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[21:01:27] <robin_sz> Piper Saratoga ??
[21:01:34] <les_w> no chance of having it here of course
[21:01:52] <les_w> a saratoga would cut the commute nicely heh
[21:02:09] <robin_sz> in summer, yes
[21:02:24] <les_w> in vfr....
[21:02:35] <les_w> about half the days
[21:03:04] <les_w> about 3/4 of the days in the morning
[21:05:11] <les_w> hey , I still haven't even bought a business car yet
[21:05:26] <les_w> It's just too cold to be out on car lots
[21:06:06] <les_w> we'll get some nice days soon
[21:06:26] <les_w> snowy/icy this weekend
[21:10:25] <robin_sz> coo
[21:10:31] <robin_sz> no snow this winter here
[21:10:40] <SWPadnos> bastids
[21:11:10] <robin_sz> I thought I saw a light at the end of hte tunnel
[21:11:23] <SWPadnos> not that we've had any real snow either ...
[21:11:25] <robin_sz> it was just some guy with a torch, bringing more work
[21:12:32] <les_w> oh, I also optoed the stg dio. They have 10k pull-ups, so I should be able to just hook the collector of the darlington right to the input and ground the emitter
[21:13:00] <SWPadnos> you may get false trips from humidity
[21:13:29] <les_w> ? think 10k is a little high?
[21:14:08] <SWPadnos> we had an isolated input on one baord that only needed 2 uA to trip it
[21:14:14] <SWPadnos> roughly
[21:14:27] <les_w> really
[21:14:33] <SWPadnos> I think it was 10k or 15k pull-ups to a +15V rail
[21:14:48] <SWPadnos> if you're using 24V, keep that in mind
[21:14:58] <les_w> I usually use about 3k or so
[21:15:11] <les_w> no the stg jut pulls up to +5
[21:15:19] <SWPadnos> ah - ok
[21:15:33] <les_w> the irled will be running from 24...with a series resistor
[21:15:48] <les_w> using 4n33
[21:15:50] <SWPadnos> 10k may be all right, just be aware that you might be surprised by how little it takes to trip
[21:16:04] <les_w> I'll watch that
[21:18:00] <les_w> I had some false home trips before...and NC limits switches would need excercising once in a while or they would open up
[21:18:08] <les_w> that was at 5v
[21:18:20] <les_w> 24 should mane most of that go away
[21:18:24] <SWPadnos> strange that aswitch would "fail open" like that
[21:18:57] <les_w> well it is a wiping contact...and it never gets tripped on the limit...
[21:19:13] <les_w> but fail open is safe...
[21:19:18] <SWPadnos> sure - that's why it seems weird for it to opn up on its own
[21:19:23] <les_w> the machine will go into hard e-stop
[21:19:45] <SWPadnos> sure, it's the safe way, but strange for the switch to just open from time to time ;)
[21:19:54] <les_w> yeah
[21:21:02] <les_w> actually as I recall it was e-stop switches in the limit switch chain
[21:21:08] <les_w> big red button...
[21:21:17] <les_w> have them all over the machine
[21:21:25] <les_w> they were surplus
[21:21:31] <SWPadnos> never more than arms reach away, I would hope
[21:21:47] <les_w> new old stock but perhaps the contacts were corroded
[21:21:59] <les_w> right arm's reach
[21:25:14] <SWPadnos> heh - I was just going to complain that the one time I want to talk to Jymmm, he's not here
[21:25:33] <SWPadnos> err - I mean, Hi Jymmm
[21:25:46] <SWPadnos> bastid
[21:25:51] <SWPadnos> Hi, Jymmm
[21:26:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: How can I be of service?
[21:26:51] <SWPadnos> well, I'm looking for tickets to SJC, and I'm wondering how long it takes to get from other area airports (SFO, OAK)
[21:26:58] <SWPadnos> also how much it costs for the stupid shuttles
[21:27:43] <Jymmm> Driving from SFO/OAK to SJC w/o any traffic is about 45 minutes.
[21:28:09] <Jymmm> Shuttles, no idea.
[21:28:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm - actually, I can rent a car for the week for the cost of a shuttle ride plus part of the difference in airfare
[21:28:40] <SWPadnos> I think one of the shuttle sites had $115 for the RT fare
[21:29:14] <Jymmm> http://www.sjc.org/travelers/d2d.php
[21:29:17] <SWPadnos> I assume those are the only airports close enough to be worth looking at
[21:30:01] <SWPadnos> right - I had seen that page - though I would actually want to go to the Hilton at the convention center
[21:30:33] <Jymmm> Well SFO is in South San Francisco, Mosconi Center is in San Francisco
[21:30:45] <SWPadnos> a rental car would also solve the problem of how to get into SF for the House of Prime Rib ;)
[21:30:54] <SWPadnos> I'm headed for McEnery
[21:30:55] <Jymmm> South San Francisco and San Francisco are two different cities
[21:31:06] <SWPadnos> in San Jse
[21:31:07] <SWPadnos> Jose
[21:31:26] <Jymmm> McEnery ?
[21:31:37] <SWPadnos> the convention center in San Jose
[21:31:47] <Jymmm> Ah, never knew it's name
[21:31:53] <SWPadnos> http://www.embedded.com/esc/sv/
[21:32:03] <Jymmm> Parking in SF is a pain too.
[21:32:08] <Jymmm> and can be costly.
[21:32:18] <robin_sz> dont worry
[21:32:20] <SWPadnos> yes it is, but the valets take care of that, and it's worth it for HOPR
[21:32:22] <Jymmm> but garages are not bad
[21:32:23] <robin_sz> gas prices are going up
[21:32:27] <robin_sz> there will be less cars
[21:33:06] <robin_sz> is it $5 a gallon yet?
[21:33:06] <SWPadnos> not until we've used it all up
[21:33:07] <SWPadnos> trust me on this
[21:33:14] <SWPadnos> down near $2 around here
[21:33:20] <SWPadnos> $2.30 or so
[21:33:22] <robin_sz> wow still cheap
[21:33:26] <SWPadnos> again
[21:33:34] <SWPadnos> it was up over $3, but came back down
[21:33:53] <robin_sz> it will level out over $5 ... give it 18 months
[21:34:15] <SWPadnos> not with dickhead in office
[21:34:20] <les_w> haha
[21:34:34] <SWPadnos> err - I mean, our illustrious president
[21:34:35] <robin_sz> still not built my notorgen generator
[21:34:40] <cradek> the funny thing is nobody seems to care
[21:34:51] <cradek> they still drive just as big cars just as much
[21:34:52] <robin_sz> well, you re-elected him, your problem ..
[21:34:53] <SWPadnos> yeah - funny
[21:34:59] <SWPadnos> not me, baby
[21:35:03] <robin_sz> wait, for get the "re" thing
[21:35:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'd meet ya, but jsut too far away from SJCC.... 3 miles
[21:35:25] <SWPadnos> elected by Diebold!
[21:35:30] <SWPadnos> I know - it's rough
[21:35:39] <SWPadnos> I thought you were 3 blocks away
[21:36:02] <les_w> hte only show for me this year is the atlanta IWF
[21:36:16] <les_w> it's cnc router land
[21:36:23] <cradek> thanks for the 22nd amendment, all you dead guys, we really need it with electronic voting
[21:36:28] <SWPadnos> this is the only one I get to consistently
[21:36:40] <SWPadnos> also Photokina in Germany, every 2 years
[21:37:25] <les_w> I had hoped to have a display this year selling routers
[21:37:30] <les_w> but it was not to be
[21:37:34] <les_w> no control...
[21:37:40] <SWPadnos> I was reading through the amendments recently - I was surprised that there were so many recent ones
[21:38:24] <cradek> for a real surprise, check out how long women couldn't vote, even after ex-slaves could
[21:38:30] <SWPadnos> yeah
[21:38:37] <SWPadnos> 1919 or something
[21:39:04] <cradek> that makes me think we'll have a black (male) president long before a woman
[21:39:28] <SWPadnos> hard to tell, actually
[21:39:36] <cradek> sure, we can only guess
[21:39:56] <robin_sz> we had Margret Thatcher
[21:40:30] <SWPadnos> I saw one comment like "would you want the person with their finger on the button to have monthly hormonal problems?"
[21:40:39] <SWPadnos> like men don't have continuous hormonal problems ;)
[21:40:45] <robin_sz> heh
[21:41:11] <cradek> yeah, it seems to be in our culture that we don't take women seriously.
[21:41:21] <SWPadnos> it only happens once per month, for 30 +1/-2 days at a time
[21:41:24] <robin_sz> rubbish .. they are very useful
[21:41:29] <cradek> might be different on your side, robin
[21:41:56] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[21:42:00] <cradek> anyway that's my prediction.
[21:42:12] <SWPadnos> as one physicist her said "imagine how much further we'd be if we hand't ignored half the population for the last several thousand years"
[21:42:14] <cradek> who knows, I may not live to see either one.
[21:42:18] <SWPadnos> here, not her
[21:43:31] <cradek> the other fun thing about studying the amendments is to see which states refused to ratify which amendments
[21:43:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:43:53] <SWPadnos> and for how long
[21:43:59] <cradek> right
[21:44:27] <les_w> Georgia has some REAL weird laws.
[21:44:38] <SWPadnos> we all do, I think
[21:44:55] <SWPadnos> things like "women shall not walk unaccompanied after disk"
[21:44:58] <SWPadnos> dusk
[21:45:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos When will you be in town and for how long?
[21:45:15] <SWPadnos> April 2 - 8
[21:45:17] <les_w> In a town just south of here it is still illegal to eat fried chicken with a fork
[21:45:22] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:45:24] <cradek> I'm sure we all have bad ones - enough to ensure that we're always doing something illegal, no matter how trivial
[21:45:43] <les_w> yeah
[21:45:46] <SWPadnos> well, just take a photo of a government installation, and you've breached the PATRIOT act
[21:45:50] <Jymmm> les_w Georgia has some really strange laws.
[21:45:56] <SWPadnos> roads being government installations ...
[21:46:13] <SWPadnos> or municipal infrastructure
[21:46:21] <SWPadnos> such as electric lines ...
[21:47:29] <cradek> it's shameful to have to say, but I guess it's good to be white and middle-class.
[21:47:43] <SWPadnos> it doesn't hurt, in this country
[21:47:55] <cradek> there are a lot of bad things going on in this country.
[21:48:04] <les_w> I'm kinda trying to not be in the middle class haha
[21:48:24] <cradek> les_w: oh that's easy :-)
[21:48:32] <les_w> hahaha
[21:48:42] <cradek> les_w: I know just what I'd do to get out of the middle class
[21:48:46] <SWPadnos> just spend all your money - join us in the lower class
[21:49:39] <les_w> I am throwing a lot of money back at the shop
[21:49:48] <les_w> exponential growth?
[21:50:12] <les_w> exponential growth of capital equipment for sure...
[21:50:35] <SWPadnos> I have mastered exponential spending
[21:50:42] <les_w> heh
[21:51:46] <cradek> http://www.local6.com/news/6880241/detail.html
[21:51:59] <cradek> I think he's not looking so good
[21:52:27] <SWPadnos> he got burnt
[21:53:11] <les_w> haha
[21:53:16] <fenn> that's one way a low power laser could be fun
[21:53:31] <cradek> oh no it looks like mohammed
[21:53:42] <cradek> argh, I didn't just say that
[21:53:50] <les_w> heh
[22:00:33] <les_w> ok shop is powered down for the day
[22:13:23] <alex_joni> hello
[23:08:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[23:08:46] <alex_joni> night all
[23:13:45] <Jymmm> nite alex_joni