#emc | Logs for 2006-02-04

[00:33:04] <giacus> damn it
[00:33:06] <giacus> General Director of Independent News Agency "Cubanac�n
[00:33:06] <giacus> Press " in hunger strike until Cuban authorities provide
[00:33:08] <giacus> free access to the internet from his home.
[00:33:22] <giacus> http://www.repubblica.it/2006/b/sezioni/esteri/cubafame/cubafame/este_03160821_09530.jpg
[00:34:26] <Jymmm> giacus url to the story?
[00:34:36] <giacus> http://www.puenteinfocubamiami.org/cuba_latest2006.htm
[00:34:52] <Jymmm> ty
[00:36:35] <Jymmm> lol
[00:38:43] <fenn> i think that says something about cuba.. but i dont know what
[00:39:45] <giacus> fenn: scroll the page there's a complete article by Guillermo Farinas
[00:39:55] <giacus> this man here: http://www.repubblica.it/2006/b/sezioni/esteri/cubafame/cubafame/este_03160821_09530.jpg
[00:40:08] <giacus> how much he can live ?
[00:40:13] <fenn> yes i read it..
[00:40:15] <giacus> 1 week ? O_O
[00:41:11] <giacus> looks like a zombie ..
[00:41:31] <fenn> you would too if you went a year without eating
[00:41:52] <giacus> a year ? impossible..
[00:42:07] <fenn> says he started january last year
[00:42:16] <giacus> withoud drink life is very short
[00:42:35] <giacus> jan 2006 ?
[00:44:16] <fenn> oops i read that wrong
[00:44:24] <giacus> yeah ..
[00:44:43] <fenn> maybe it would be better for his cause if he drank water..
[00:44:46] <Jymmm> 3days w/o water and your body starts shutting down
[00:45:01] <fenn> anyone can kill themself.. it takes guts to starve to death :)
[00:45:26] <giacus> yes, you can live for a long time without food but not without water ..
[00:49:47] <giacus> " I have decided to start a hunger strike without liquids," ..
[00:50:08] <fenn> * fenn goes to bed.. night night
[00:50:12] <giacus> will die soon
[00:50:18] <giacus> G night fenn
[01:04:23] <giacus> * giacus goes too
[01:04:26] <giacus> Night
[01:04:36] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[01:05:44] <Jymmm> G'Night giacus_afk (Jacky)
[03:56:59] <jepler> Jymmm: some jpegs for you
[03:57:00] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/unpolished.jpg
[03:57:10] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/polished1.jpg
[03:57:21] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/polished2.jpg
[03:59:06] <cradek> that last one shows the dots nicely
[03:59:13] <jepler> Jymmm: these photos were taken under room lighting, with the plexiglass flat on the surface of a book. "unpolished" is a side that I didn't do anything with after it was milled with that tool we talkeda bout earlier, "polished" is sanded then buffed, and "polished2" shows the tiny dots through the side, to show that the polish really worked well.
[04:03:32] <jepler> cradek: yeah, it does
[04:11:25] <cradek> jepler: http://timeguy.com/cradek/emc/ubuntu
[04:19:58] <weyland> ne1 awake?
[04:20:18] <cradek> a little
[04:20:34] <weyland> hey man~! how ya been?
[04:20:45] <cradek> seem to be ok I guess
[04:20:51] <weyland> :)
[04:21:12] <weyland> who's the "in hte know" guy these days?
[04:21:25] <cradek> I'm sure that depends greatly on the topic
[04:21:41] <weyland> got a question about EMC and Bridgeport V2XT's
[04:22:04] <cradek> well I know about emc, but I don't know what a V2XT is
[04:23:09] <weyland> just wondering if anyone ever played with getting EMC to work with the hardware inside one, without changing everything
[04:23:11] <weyland> http://cgi.ebay.com/1992-Bridgeport-V2XT-CNC-3-Axis-Vertical-Mill-DX32-N-R_W0QQitemZ7585635518QQcategoryZ12584QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[04:23:49] <weyland> damn... shoulda just said ebay item number 7585635518 is an example of one
[04:24:41] <cradek> looks like it comes with a working 386! why use emc?
[04:25:07] <cradek> I'm sure those six floppies are still good; they're only 13 years old
[04:25:27] <weyland> well, I've got a line on one that the motherboard blew up on, but is otherwise in PRISTINE condition
[04:25:50] <cradek> slick
[04:25:53] <weyland> was playing with the idea of upgrading the computer and running EMC
[04:26:08] <cradek> I wonder what the machine interface is
[04:26:12] <weyland> I know the machine from day 1, and it's only been used 20 times
[04:26:35] <weyland> 15 of those were cutting plastic, 5 were Aluminum
[04:26:36] <cradek> if it's analog out an encoder counts in (and you can find information about it), it'll be easy to write a hal driver.
[04:26:52] <cradek> ... AND encoder counts in
[04:27:19] <weyland> I, personally, have no idea, but thought someone involved in EMC might know, for some odd reason
[04:27:22] <weyland> :)
[04:27:28] <cradek> or, you could probably get a modern card like Motenc
[04:27:34] <weyland> I was thinking Jon might know
[04:27:39] <cradek> he sure might
[04:27:44] <SWP_Away> someone probably does know, but not us ;)
[04:27:55] <SWP_Away> Ray, JonE, maybe even jmk
[04:27:57] <weyland> :) Hey man~!
[04:28:01] <cradek> just ship it over to me, and I'll get it working. Then you can buy this one on ebay
[04:28:02] <SWP_Away> hiya
[04:28:03] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[04:28:10] <weyland> LOL
[04:28:25] <SWPadnos> you might be able to get an old '386 cheaper than the interface to that machine
[04:28:28] <weyland> The one I'm hoping for is local to me, in my old VoTech school
[04:28:47] <cradek> that's a nice lead then
[04:29:01] <SWPadnos> that's good, because it probably weighs 5000 pounds
[04:29:12] <weyland> my old Teacher called me to offer it to me, because he knows I can fix it
[04:29:24] <weyland> and he doesn't wanna see it waste away
[04:29:34] <SWPadnos> you can likely run it with emc and an analog I/O card (plus some digital)
[04:29:34] <weyland> and I can get it CHEAP
[04:29:39] <weyland> REALLY cheap
[04:30:02] <cradek> sounds like you can get it for $0 plus hauling it out of his shop
[04:30:06] <weyland> SWPadnos: yeah, I thought of that
[04:30:27] <weyland> not THAT cheap, but cheap enough that I wouldn't worry over it
[04:30:43] <SWPadnos> hell - I'll pay you $150 for it
[04:30:55] <weyland> anyway, I just thought it would be kewl (if I had to upgrade it) to put EMC on it
[04:30:55] <SWPadnos> as long as you keep the dead motherboard
[04:31:02] <weyland> No way.
[04:31:09] <weyland> I won't take over 5$ for it
[04:31:15] <SWPadnos> OK - I'll take the motherboard then
[04:31:19] <weyland> :)
[04:31:54] <cradek> I'm sure I have several 386/486 motherboards around
[04:32:07] <weyland> The problem is that the Bridgeport software won't run if you put a faster processor in
[04:32:10] <cradek> it also might be fun to put it back to original (if the original software is functional enough)
[04:32:15] <weyland> Ooo. Really?
[04:32:33] <cradek> oh I'm sure somewhere
[04:32:37] <weyland> I have the software
[04:32:44] <cradek> a 486 without the turbo switch on would surely work
[04:32:52] <weyland> Hrrrmmmm
[04:32:58] <cradek> remember turbo switches? That's pretty funny now, isn't it
[04:33:09] <SWPadnos> oooohhh - 33 MHz - WOW!
[04:33:11] <weyland> Hahahahaha... yeah...
[04:33:21] <cradek> ha, I had a 386/40
[04:33:27] <weyland> MathCoProcessoer, anyone?
[04:33:28] <cradek> WITH A COPROCESSOR
[04:33:32] <weyland> lol
[04:33:42] <SWPadnos> I remember watching centipede run on the AT&T 6300WGS (386, 25 or 33 MHz)
[04:33:50] <cradek> that was my first linux machine. It kicked ass.
[04:33:51] <weyland> right up there with LeisureSuit Larry
[04:34:03] <SWPadnos> the damn thing too 1/2 second to get to the bottom of the screen
[04:34:18] <SWPadnos> Weitek or Intel?
[04:34:26] <cradek> intel
[04:34:39] <cradek> can you read all the floppies for the original software?
[04:34:40] <SWPadnos> not many people bought the Weiteks
[04:34:44] <weyland> I was also thinking of possibly running the software in DOSEMU, wine, or VMWare
[04:34:50] <cradek> if so, make copies TODAY
[04:34:59] <cradek> no, that'll never work
[04:35:04] <weyland> HAve it on CD
[04:35:09] <cradek> ah, great
[04:35:17] <weyland> why?
[04:35:22] <weyland> why wouldn't it work?
[04:35:26] <weyland> access?
[04:35:28] <cradek> because the latency would be screwed with
[04:35:40] <cradek> dos is pseudo-realtime by nature
[04:36:09] <Jymmm> jepler: and the "dots" were created with the osrund bit?
[04:36:55] <cradek> Jymmm: they were done with a pointed 60 degree PCB mechanical-etching tool
[04:37:15] <cradek> Jymmm: the dots are about .004 diameter
[04:37:52] <Jymmm> cradek Ah, ok. so what was the onsrund bit used for, cutting?
[04:38:01] <cradek> yeah just cutting the outside shape
[04:38:51] <Jymmm> cradek: very cool. I hope I get good results engraving/carving with their bits then
[04:39:23] <cradek> we had a lot of trouble cutting out a shape without melting/rewelding (using regular 2 or 4 flute endmills)
[04:40:04] <Jymmm> cradek: I spent about 6 hours researching/talking to onsrund
[04:40:20] <cradek> bye weyland
[04:41:09] <Jymmm> rebooting...
[08:38:56] <LawrenceG> cradek: you still up?
[09:31:56] <LawrenceG> cradek: tried install of emc2 as per new info on your website....
[09:32:43] <LawrenceG> all seems to have installed, but when I run emc from command line or menu, insmod fails to load most of the modules
[09:33:17] <LawrenceG> I get operation not permitted on rtai_hal.ko
[09:33:32] <LawrenceG> file exists on adeos.ko
[09:34:17] <LawrenceG> unknown symbol in module on rtai_up.ko
[09:34:39] <LawrenceG> and similar errors on 6 more modules
[09:35:04] <LawrenceG> finally emc bails with could not load rtapi and hal_lib
[09:35:22] <LawrenceG> will try some more tomorrow... goodnight all
[09:35:46] <LawrenceG> logger_aj: bookmark
[09:35:46] <LawrenceG> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-04#T09-35-46
[12:26:11] <Imperator_> logger_aj: bookmark
[12:26:12] <Imperator_> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-02-04#T12-26-11
[13:28:21] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[15:48:55] <cncuser> hello folks
[15:53:29] <jepler> hi cncuser
[15:54:54] <cncuser> hi jepler :)
[15:55:57] <cncuser> i want to play around with my cnc today
[15:56:20] <cncuser> but still have the problem of different formats and converting to gcode emc eats
[15:57:14] <cncuser> like ps2gcode... produces a gcodefile but axis/emc barfs because the format doesnt match
[15:57:24] <jepler> I write most of the software that I produce gcode with, so it hasn't been a problem for me
[15:57:31] <cncuser> jepler: haha
[15:57:32] <jepler> I'm not familiar with ps2gcode
[15:58:05] <cncuser> well, i have some nice vectorgraphics and would like to gcode them
[15:59:37] <cncuser> the converting is all so complicated
[16:00:18] <jepler> this software? http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~alanb/ps2gc.html
[16:00:24] <cncuser> i have eps as source .. kann use inkscape to save it as svg, but cant convert it using cam.py (which i intended to use)
[16:00:27] <jepler> it looks like it dumps some debugging information directly into the output
[16:00:40] <cncuser> no, thats not the problem
[16:00:59] <cncuser> if you specify a outputfile no debuggingstuff will get written into the outputfile
[16:01:10] <jepler> oh
[16:01:15] <cncuser> only if you use stdout you get trash at the start
[16:01:25] <rayh> What gcode problems are there.
[16:01:47] <cncuser> G20
[16:01:47] <cncuser> G17 G40 G49 G53 G80
[16:01:48] <cncuser> G90
[16:01:48] <cncuser> G1 Z0.1
[16:01:48] <cncuser> G0 Z0.5
[16:01:48] <cncuser> G0 X7.063194 Y16.182222
[16:01:52] <cncuser> G0 Z0.1
[16:01:54] <cncuser> G1 Z-0.050000
[16:02:09] <cncuser> no G)3 or )4 ( as i take out the ngc handbook)
[16:02:24] <cncuser> G93, G94
[16:03:09] <jepler> axis thinks that the line with "G53" is bogus
[16:03:14] <jepler> I don't see a G93
[16:03:33] <cncuser> yes, but if i do G17 G40 G49 G53 G0 G80 it says its ok
[16:03:54] <cncuser> jep: yes, thats the problem axis barfs about... no feedrate
[16:04:00] <jepler> that's probably not what you want
[16:04:06] <cncuser> probably
[16:04:06] <jepler> well there is no feedrate in that program
[16:04:34] <cncuser> i got no clou on ngc... and really, i dont intend to dig deep till i have finished some other stuff
[16:04:34] <rayh> g0 and g80 ought to barf.
[16:04:36] <jepler> G0 G53 X- Y- Z- moves in the absolute coordinate system
[16:04:43] <jepler> rayh: that's true too
[16:05:02] <jepler> rayh: but it looks like it's accepted
[16:05:48] <jepler> cncuser: I'd just remove the G53, rather than trying to add a G0 so that it's accepted
[16:05:49] <rayh> Dave E pointed out the other day that g40 will cause problems on a long line.
[16:06:18] <rayh> It seems that the interp wants to set units before it does other stuff.
[16:06:26] <jepler> cncuser: Maybe in some other system, G53 means all following moves are in machine coordinates, but that's not what emc does, and it undoes the usefulness of offsets.
[16:06:45] <rayh> and can't set units if units is is use
[16:06:58] <rayh> G53 is only effective on the line in which it is used.
[16:07:06] <rayh> Always has been that way.
[16:07:14] <jepler> rayh: "maybe in some other system" ..
[16:07:18] <rayh> was that way on ab and fanuc when the interp was written.
[16:07:42] <jepler> fprintf(file,"G80\n"); // Cancel any existing motion cycle
[16:07:56] <jepler> I'd say just take out the lines that generate G53 G80
[16:08:33] <jepler> add add an F- somehow
[16:08:42] <cncuser> cannot do g1 with zero feedrate
[16:09:00] <cncuser> hmmm
[16:09:56] <rayh> is feedrate an arg to the converter?
[16:11:25] <jepler> cncuser: do you have an example .ps file? The simple one I wrote doesn't produce any XY movements even though I think it should.
[16:11:41] <jepler> 0 0 moveto 100 100 lineto stroke showpage
[16:11:51] <cncuser> shure
[16:13:18] <jepler> oh, wait, I was just invoking it wrong. now I got something.
[16:13:28] <jepler> eek, this gcode is scarily wrong
[16:13:39] <cncuser> ok
[16:13:46] <jepler> G1 Z0.1
[16:13:46] <jepler> G0 Z0.5
[16:13:46] <jepler> G0 X0.000000 Y0.000000
[16:13:56] <jepler> I guess Z0.1 is supposed to be above the workpiece
[16:14:11] <cncuser> hmm
[16:14:30] <cncuser> i dump that tool
[16:17:07] <jepler> maybe try this patch before you give up. http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/ps2gc-for-emc.patch
[16:17:24] <jepler> the generated file does load in axis+emc1
[16:17:38] <cncuser> hmm, ok
[16:20:42] <cncuser> it works, but loks strange :)
[16:20:54] <cncuser> very edgy
[16:24:53] <cncuser> hmmm
[16:27:22] <jepler> I don't think this interprets postscript very well
[16:28:05] <jepler> This should make a square (and it does, according to my postscript viewer): 0 0 moveto 72 0 lineto 72 72 lineto 0 72 lineto closepath stroke showpage
[16:28:22] <jepler> but I only get a diagonal line
[16:44:33] <cncuser> hmm
[17:17:34] <cncuser> hmm, cam.py used on a svg also gives me something i doidnt intend...
[17:17:47] <cncuser> looks like hereses a lot to do :(
[17:55:44] <cncuser> jepler: what do i do wrong if i load something into axis and it looks correctly. but when i start it plots it miniminiminimized in some corner.
[17:57:21] <fenn> your units are screwy.. didnt we already go over this?
[17:57:41] <cncuser> fenn: hmmm, maybe, dont remember
[17:57:42] <fenn> * fenn suggests either adding a g20 or g21 or getting the latest axis
[17:58:23] <cncuser> ok, thanks
[18:01:31] <cncuser> extensions/emcmodule.cc:371: error: 'class EMC_TRAJ_STAT' has no member named '
[18:01:31] <cncuser> motion_type'
[18:01:31] <cncuser> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
[18:01:33] <cncuser> hmm, ok
[18:01:52] <cradek> cncuser: you'll need to update your emc2 and axis both
[18:02:02] <cncuser> damit
[18:02:16] <cncuser> ok, so emc first
[18:02:26] <jepler> cncuser: or you can just remove the line with the error. I don't think motion_type is used by axis yet
[18:02:43] <cradek> that's true
[18:02:54] <cradek> because jepler hasn't finished that
[18:04:02] <jepler> I'm just lazy
[18:04:12] <cncuser> harhar
[18:04:13] <cncuser> never
[18:04:21] <cradek> cncuser: or you could get the 1.1.1 release instead of 1.2
[18:04:33] <cncuser> i get the latest opf the latest :)
[18:05:15] <cradek> ok then maybe you should update emc2 too
[18:05:21] <cncuser> i do )
[18:05:24] <cncuser> right now compile
[18:05:37] <cradek> emc2 and axis cvs-head tend to track right together
[18:05:41] <cncuser> thanks to the scripts its no hassle at all ;)
[18:08:22] <cncuser> wooow
[18:08:30] <cncuser> the gui changed again :)
[18:09:05] <cradek> ?
[18:11:46] <cradek> yours must have been old
[18:11:55] <cradek> I think we fixed all the units problems some time ago
[18:30:13] <cncuser> hi again
[18:31:07] <cncuser> oki, the newest emc2+the newest axis & stepper mm config + axis as DISPLAY made myt puter hang right after the configurationdialogs
[18:31:48] <cncuser> even sysrq didnt work. a full hang
[18:31:56] <cradek> maybe PERIOD is too small
[18:32:34] <cncuser> cradek: should that matter if the machine is not even runed on (estop on, machine off)
[18:32:43] <alex_joni> cncuser: doesn't matter
[18:33:37] <cncuser> hi alex, btw :)
[18:34:00] <alex_joni> hi btw ;)
[18:34:41] <cncuser> sorry, im not able to look at this any further right now. my collegue needs the puter... idea eats up massive ressources
[18:34:53] <alex_joni> lol
[18:35:28] <cncuser> xterminals rule :)
[18:36:13] <cncuser> but ther error happens on the setup i described in the puppysitmastering howto
[18:36:21] <cncuser> 2.4.31 kernel
[19:00:56] <acemi> when i use the BDI's kernel, my disk has very low performance because i can't set dma with hdparm. is this normal?
[19:02:24] <acemi> i get " HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted" message when i use hdparm -d1
[19:06:49] <acemi> Timing buffered disk reads with 2.6.8-2-686 is 40.55 MB/sec; with magma kernel is ~5.00 /MB/sec
[19:09:38] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/docs/help/tkemc.txt: moved the helpfile over from emc1
[19:13:42] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: updated tkemc so it can find the helpfile
[19:14:59] <cncuser> acemi: dma mazbe dissabled because it interfers with the rtai capabilities
[19:15:27] <cncuser> acemi: a disk could use memory anytime it wants to. that doesnt help predictability
[19:15:55] <alex_joni> acemi: I had the exact same problems
[19:16:02] <alex_joni> it's a kernel problem
[19:16:15] <alex_joni> I had it with 2.6.8-2-SMP-686
[19:16:18] <acemi> kernel problem?
[19:16:32] <cncuser> alex: i think its intentional. the earlier bdis also had dma diabled
[19:16:47] <alex_joni> my fix was to add the specific IDE chipset driver on top of /etc/modules
[19:16:51] <alex_joni> cncuser: no way
[19:17:12] <cncuser> alex: well, it sounds logical to me that dma doesnt improve realtime
[19:17:36] <alex_joni> cncuser: I am talking about an unpatched kernel
[19:17:42] <alex_joni> no RTAI
[19:17:43] <acemi> alex_joni but i have no problem with 2.6.8 kernel
[19:17:53] <cncuser> if the cpu has nothing to do with it. the hardware could be used by other hardware without adeos keeping it from doing so
[19:18:19] <cncuser> alexjoni: hmmm
[19:18:19] <alex_joni> acemi: the kernel works, but the idegeneric driver doesn't as it should
[19:18:36] <alex_joni> in my case I needed the piix module
[19:18:37] <cncuser> i thought magma...bla is the rtaid stuff
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> after putting that piix into /etc/modules and rebooting, I could hdparm it
[19:20:10] <alex_joni> oh, and with 2.4 this worked ok
[19:20:16] <alex_joni> just 2.6.8 was the problem
[19:20:22] <alex_joni> and no other kernel in sarge
[19:20:38] <acemi> but i can use hdparm -d1 with 2.6.8
[19:20:56] <alex_joni> oh, then you perhaps have a different issue
[19:21:01] <acemi> there is no problem with it
[19:21:06] <alex_joni> check the kernel config for idedma
[19:21:42] <acemi> before i want to learn is these i trick for magma & emc
[19:27:21] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: support for tkemc/mini help
[19:27:58] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: overhaul and start of modify and tune.
[19:28:05] <acemi> http://www.rtai.dk/cgi-bin/gratiswiki.pl?DMA_And_Jitter
[19:48:33] <rayh_> rayh_ is now known as rayh
[19:52:15] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: fixed helpfile support for mini
[19:52:32] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/TODO: make install finished
[19:57:02] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/Makefile: installing helpfiles to the appropiate place
[19:58:44] <anonimasu> alex_joni: compile one yourself
[19:59:02] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I'm too lazy for that :)
[19:59:21] <alex_joni> kidding.. it's a very important machine, can't afford to screw/forget somthing
[20:11:32] <anonimasu> alex_joni: why are you running linux on it?
[20:12:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/TODO: new idea
[20:15:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu would run bsd
[20:16:10] <alex_joni> anonimasu: basicly because I've been running linux for the last 5 years without any problems on it
[20:17:07] <anonimasu> hm, ok
[20:17:13] <alex_joni> brb
[20:17:34] <jepler> cradek: new idea !?
[20:17:57] <jmkasunich> "A failed emc run should collect data and give the option of sending it to the developers."
[20:18:14] <cradek> haha new to us
[20:19:09] <anonimasu> heh
[20:20:04] <k4ts> hello
[20:21:37] <anonimasu> you'll hate that feature in the end
[20:34:38] <asdfqwega> Boo!
[20:37:47] <giacus> Buu
[20:38:03] <giacus> where you've been ??
[20:38:06] <giacus> :)
[20:52:50] <asdfqwega> ...and you are?
[20:53:06] <giacus> yes, I am
[20:53:23] <giacus> Im always here
[20:54:15] <giacus> mhh .. you may recall some other nickname :P
[20:56:52] <giacus> my nick was Jacky^ !
[20:57:01] <giacus> a bit better of yours
[20:57:04] <giacus> :D
[21:03:56] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[21:10:25] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is burning computers for firewood
[21:10:38] <giacus> uh ?
[21:10:47] <giacus> too cold ?
[21:11:10] <asdfqwega> snow due later...but more like 'too many'
[21:20:39] <CIA-8> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: for tkemc's help file
[21:26:43] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: updated docsdir
[21:32:06] <habl> anybody ou there?
[21:35:16] <alex_joni> habl: yes and no
[21:35:22] <habl> yes
[21:35:25] <habl> :)
[21:35:46] <alex_joni> this is an automatic reply to notify you that everybody is away
[21:35:53] <habl> so, is there a live-cd version of the EMC software
[21:35:54] <habl> ?
[21:36:03] <alex_joni> some :)
[21:36:40] <alex_joni> habl: recent or older?
[21:36:55] <alex_joni> there is an older moprhix based Live version running emc1
[21:37:05] <alex_joni> and a newer puppy-linux based version running emc2
[21:37:30] <alex_joni> #1 - stable, #2 - might get you into troubles (not very likely but still)
[21:38:24] <habl> do you have an url for dl it?
[21:38:49] <habl> http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller ?
[21:39:00] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[21:39:09] <alex_joni> no, that is a usage map of emc users
[21:39:16] <habl> i see
[21:39:32] <habl> is it actually usable for laser-cuting machines?
[21:39:56] <habl> i would need no y-axes but an on/off switch for the laser
[21:40:11] <habl> and a so called "laser-chiller"
[21:40:25] <alex_joni> I think you mean no z-axes
[21:40:34] <habl> yes z-axes
[21:40:59] <alex_joni> on/off switch sounds like M62/M63
[21:41:08] <habl> the "laser-chiller" is a clocker for the time periodes the laser is switched on
[21:41:18] <alex_joni> habl: explain a bit more
[21:41:44] <habl> well if you drive slowly trough the material you won't need 100% of the laser-power
[21:42:05] <habl> so you throttle the laser by switching it on for lets say 20% of the time
[21:42:22] <alex_joni> I see.. so you need to adjust laser-power
[21:42:30] <habl> yep
[21:42:33] <alex_joni> you can use the spindle-speed for that
[21:42:44] <alex_joni> Sxxx sets the RPM's of a spindle
[21:42:55] <alex_joni> given a proper scale it would give your laser power
[21:43:22] <habl> how fast can it switch?
[21:44:03] <habl> and - can i define line different lines on different layer with faster and slower x/y speed?
[21:44:16] <habl> i have not tested EMC yet
[21:44:23] <habl> sorry if i anoy you
[21:44:32] <alex_joni> you're not annoying at all
[21:44:39] <alex_joni> we are working on making emc2 better
[21:44:44] <alex_joni> so all input is welcomed
[21:45:08] <alex_joni> habl: what kind of CAM are you planning to use?
[21:45:43] <alex_joni> CAM beeing the process of translating the CAD drawings into G-Code for machining (or cutting in your case)
[21:45:50] <habl> well, we already have one in use
[21:45:55] <alex_joni> for laser I would suggest something like sheetcam
[21:46:03] <habl> it is a eplorer from laserproi.com
[21:46:04] <alex_joni> habl: ok, what's it called?
[21:46:11] <alex_joni> never heard..
[21:46:18] <habl> sheetcam --> linux?
[21:46:26] <alex_joni> habl: not really :)
[21:46:32] <habl> that's my point
[21:46:33] <alex_joni> habl: at least not now..
[21:46:43] <habl> i am searching something that runs on linux
[21:46:53] <alex_joni> anyways.. there is this thought:
[21:47:10] <alex_joni> 1. have a G-code with XY movements, F-words for feed, and S-words for laser power
[21:47:21] <alex_joni> if the CAM gets those right, emc2 will have no problems
[21:47:25] <alex_joni> alternative
[21:47:51] <alex_joni> 2. have a G-code with XY, and F-words, tell emc2 what max-laser-power is, and what speed that is for
[21:48:06] <alex_joni> then have emc2 scale the power accordingly to current_speed/max_speed
[21:48:20] <habl> i see
[21:48:36] <alex_joni> habl: both are pretty easy to do with emc2
[21:48:37] <habl> thank you for your explenation
[21:48:45] <alex_joni> the first one is basicly already there
[21:48:59] <alex_joni> for the second one you need to set a few things up, but nothing complicated
[21:49:07] <habl> and you would recommend me sheetcam as free software for designing?
[21:49:11] <alex_joni> habl: care to tell me a bit more about HW you plan to use?
[21:49:24] <habl> well, it is already in use
[21:49:30] <alex_joni> habl: no, I used it when it was free, it isn't anymore afaik
[21:49:31] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:49:44] <alex_joni> habl: servo or stepper?
[21:49:51] <alex_joni> robin_sz: hello
[21:49:56] <robin_sz> hi alex
[21:50:01] <robin_sz> busy in here today :)
[21:50:21] <habl> i have not seen the machine yet but i will have the chance to care about it in a month
[21:50:37] <alex_joni> habl: you might your impressions on emc2 till then
[21:50:38] <robin_sz> I bought some servos on ebay :)
[21:50:38] <habl> i think it's a stepper machine
[21:51:42] <habl> SheetCam standard with Mach2 $275 (US dollars)
[21:52:26] <alex_joni> well.. wouldn't trust Mach2 & doze for machining
[21:52:34] <alex_joni> but sheetcam seemed useable
[21:52:43] <habl> what is mach2 anyway?
[21:52:58] <alex_joni> a windows based machine controller
[21:53:27] <habl> i'd like to use debian-linux -- with a realtime patch if neccesary...
[21:53:37] <jepler> realtime is quite necessary
[21:54:18] <habl> but why the hell is it a coded on a non-realtime multithread operationsystem like M$ ?
[21:54:53] <cradek> because most people won't buy software unless it runs on windows, no matter how badly
[21:55:23] <habl> i was thinking about coding a software based on python and gtk under lkinux
[21:55:30] <habl> *linux*
[21:55:49] <habl> do you write code?
[21:55:51] <cradek> if you're doing open source, that's a great idea
[21:55:59] <cradek> if you want to sell it, it's a terrible idea
[21:56:02] <habl> that was my intention
[21:56:26] <habl> no it would not be a bad idea if you write it for BSD-derivated
[21:56:27] <robin_sz> the new mach2/3/4 uses offboard realtiem pulse generation, so the windows thing is not such a problem there
[21:56:30] <jepler> I think that software should be rated on a "grit" scale. I.e., this software is so bad, I'd rather be rubbed with 120-grit sandpaper
[21:56:34] <habl> *derivate*
[21:56:38] <jepler> the better the software, the higher the gritmark
[21:57:12] <cradek> we're all refreshed by your unique idea
[21:57:36] <habl> is that a compliment?
[21:57:50] <robin_sz> sorta
[21:58:07] <fenn> habl: python and wxwidgets are cross-platform and may save you some gtk anguish in the end also
[21:58:44] <habl> so if i got it right the postprocessor is the time-critical component
[21:58:55] <robin_sz> not really
[21:59:02] <habl> the OS ?
[21:59:04] <robin_sz> the servo loops
[21:59:12] <robin_sz> and the trajectory planner
[21:59:15] <jepler> habl: the servo control loop, and the stepper pulse generation, are the worst
[21:59:33] <jepler> worst == shortest realtime deadlines
[21:59:57] <habl> what are the frequencies they work at?
[22:00:14] <robin_sz> 1 to 20 khz
[22:00:14] <habl> 10 MHz or higher?
[22:00:21] <habl> ups
[22:00:23] <fenn> i wouldn't go over 4khz for a PWM carrier..
[22:00:54] <habl> so 4khz is the frequency you controlll the servos with?
[22:01:18] <fenn> uh.. i dunno. i think 1khz is average for isa servo cards
[22:01:38] <jepler> #+ Base task period, in secs - this is the fastest thread in the machine
[22:01:39] <jepler> BASE_PERIOD = 0.000050
[22:01:44] <fenn> motenc goes faster because its pci, but i dont really know why or how much faster
[22:02:09] <jepler> this is from a default configuration file in emc2
[22:02:12] <habl> sorry for asking, but you need a special PCI-card?
[22:02:23] <fenn> no but there isn't a huge range of selection
[22:02:57] <habl> i thought you're using the parallel-port or usb...
[22:03:07] <jepler> habl: what kind of hardware do you want to run with emc? With steppers, and some servo systems, you just use the parallel port as digital outputs. other servo systems use PCI or ISA cards
[22:03:09] <habl> for data-transfer
[22:03:11] <jepler> no USB
[22:03:15] <fenn> you'll need some kind of hardware interface to the servos.. some drivers (like pico systems) can use parallel port
[22:03:34] <fenn> but most are pci or isa cards
[22:03:59] <alex_joni> isa=slower, pci=faster
[22:06:29] <habl> there is not really much information on the vendors webpage:
[22:06:42] <habl> http://tinyurl.com/axsgh
[22:06:57] <habl> Drive: DC Servo Control
[22:07:15] <habl> Speed Control: (Adjustable from 0.1-100% of 80 ips (Up to 16 color-linked speed settings per job)
[22:07:35] <habl> Computer Interface: (Standard printer port and USB port)
[22:07:49] <fenn> hmm.. looks like a standalone control
[22:07:54] <alex_joni> yup
[22:08:12] <habl> is there any chance to write my own software for that guy?
[22:08:17] <fenn> "32 MB memory buffer"
[22:08:49] <fenn> why would you write new software for it?
[22:08:51] <habl> this buffer is to store "jobs" in te machine to run it without a computer later
[22:09:00] <habl> why not?
[22:09:07] <fenn> i bet it just takes postscript
[22:09:16] <habl> the problem is currently that the circles it cuts are not round
[22:09:29] <habl> nope
[22:09:31] <alex_joni> habl: you can either put it aside, and use a puter with software (emc or your own)
[22:09:35] <alex_joni> or just use the box
[22:09:36] <habl> you can work with *.plt
[22:10:08] <alex_joni> habl: I would suggest a PC+motenc+emc2
[22:10:36] <habl> a good thing would be a dircet import from a cad-programm without converting the data for the laser-cutter
[22:10:59] <habl> motenc is the software for CAD?
[22:11:45] <dmessier> red lines/profiles are g41 blue ones are g42
[22:11:59] <habl> $795.50 for a PCI-controller-card?
[22:12:15] <habl> that sound a lot for me
[22:12:21] <alex_joni> habl: servo-control is not cheap
[22:12:35] <alex_joni> you can get the motenc-lite
[22:13:16] <habl> but i only has M$ drivers and software
[22:13:35] <giacus> * giacus burp
[22:13:50] <giacus> *_*
[22:15:19] <alex_joni> habl: the motenc & motenc-lite are supported by emc2
[22:20:57] <habl> i just visited http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller/
[22:21:18] <habl> but where do i find a link to the live-cd download?
[22:21:48] <giacus> habl: hat's is just the map community
[22:21:58] <giacus> there's a link on the top
[22:22:16] <alex_joni> habl: http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[22:22:37] <habl> thx
[22:23:27] <giacus> habl: are you familiar with Linux ?
[22:23:34] <habl> :)
[22:23:44] <giacus> why do not try to compile Emc2 from source ?
[22:24:03] <habl> the question is: are you familiar with Windows?
[22:24:04] <giacus> could be an option
[22:24:43] <alex_joni> giacus: that is not an option for everybody
[22:24:45] <giacus> the fact is, cd live its ok, but not for a real work ..
[22:25:01] <giacus> alex_joni: he seems ready for it
[22:25:03] <habl> sure but just to get a first imperssion
[22:25:14] <giacus> uhm
[22:25:39] <giacus> dunno how much it can do the right impression in that way
[22:26:44] <habl> @alex i just began my studies at www.tum.de
[22:26:50] <giacus> anyway, go to download and try it
[22:27:22] <habl> there are also some romanian guy who seem to be interested in soldering some circuits
[22:27:39] <alex_joni> habl: really?
[22:27:53] <habl> why not give it a real scence and try to code a nice software for a laser-cutter
[22:27:54] <habl> ?
[22:27:58] <habl> yes
[22:28:13] <habl> Bojan, Alex, Dan...
[22:28:55] <habl> we have a very good equiped "Electronic-Laboratoy"
[22:28:57] <alex_joni> habl: not sure I'm following you...
[22:29:05] <alex_joni> habl: that's nice to hear
[22:29:20] <habl> some sponsors gave us usefull equipment for experiments
[22:30:02] <alex_joni> sounds good. what's tum? TU Muenchen?
[22:30:28] <habl> yes
[22:30:43] <habl> this is an FAQ page for the elab: http://tinyurl.com/dv7h3
[22:31:44] <giacus> habl: congrats :)
[22:32:15] <habl> well, i am doing my first stepps...
[22:32:20] <alex_joni> looks nice
[22:32:41] <habl> but i am full of ideas and see the chance to _do_ things now
[22:33:05] <habl> the TUM is a really great place to study
[22:33:23] <habl> somehow you can compare it with the MIT
[22:33:33] <habl> it is my small MIT of europe
[22:33:44] <habl> but anyway
[22:33:53] <habl> to come back to my beeing here
[22:34:03] <alex_joni> habl: where are you from?
[22:34:11] <habl> germany
[22:34:17] <alex_joni> muenchen?
[22:34:26] <habl> i am living here now
[22:34:51] <alex_joni> and originally?
[22:35:12] <habl> but originally i am frrom "köln" better know as Cologne, live in Norway, moved to Berlin and now i study in Munich
[22:35:23] <habl> my parents are from hungary
[22:35:41] <habl> liveD in Norway
[22:36:47] <robin_sz> habl: mine too :)
[22:37:02] <habl> mayarul besels?
[22:37:14] <habl> sorry but hungarian writing is terrible
[22:37:25] <robin_sz> s'ok, I dont speak any :)
[22:37:40] <habl> where are you from robin?
[22:37:45] <robin_sz> dad got out in '56
[22:37:47] <robin_sz> UK
[22:38:12] <habl> we have a redistributor of our products there
[22:38:49] <habl> http://tinyurl.com/8gjq2
[22:39:03] <habl> and now guess from whom i am working besides my studies
[22:40:21] <habl> to get back on the track
[22:40:33] <habl> i am just downloading the iso image
[22:40:52] <habl> i will try out the emc later
[22:41:11] <habl> is it based on KDE and a whoppix Linux-distro?
[22:41:22] <robin_sz> interesing designs ... foam planes huh
[22:41:39] <giacus> yeah :)
[22:41:44] <habl> foam is crap but sells good
[22:41:51] <robin_sz> wing sections look ... flat?
[22:41:55] <habl> what i like is laserd wood
[22:42:05] <habl> wood-kits you have to build yourself
[22:42:09] <robin_sz> ooh. wanna buy a laser ;) ?
[22:42:11] <habl> it is flat
[22:42:25] <habl> those models only fly because of the propulsion
[22:42:29] <robin_sz> gotta nice CO2 for sale ..... ;)
[22:42:56] <giacus> habl: I know someone playng around helicopters and cnc too http://www.propellers.it/
[22:43:58] <habl> that are really nice props
[22:44:11] <giacus> yeah, all maded with cnc
[22:44:14] <habl> are they handmade?
[22:44:16] <habl> i see
[22:44:38] <habl> but no prices there
[22:45:15] <robin_sz> this Ferranti laser needs to go .. and soon. 450W CO2,
[22:45:23] <giacus> some of our guys is pretti familiar with that toy http://www.lmwatts.com/bio.html
[22:45:26] <giacus> hehe
[22:46:05] <habl> i like fast e-planes
[22:46:22] <habl> check out this site (with CNC-mills too!) http://tinyurl.com/bpsw7
[22:46:29] <habl> and watch he video
[22:46:40] <alex_joni> robin_sz: just came back from a customer, played with a 2kW trumpf :)
[22:46:58] <k4ts> face well known
[22:47:17] <k4ts> hi les
[22:47:20] <giacus> habl: nice
[22:47:34] <giacus> where's les ?
[22:47:39] <giacus> k4ts: haha
[22:47:54] <k4ts> foto
[22:47:54] <giacus> he's not around
[22:48:00] <k4ts> ah ah
[22:48:05] <robin_sz> alex_joni: mm nice. trumpf 2030?
[22:48:12] <habl> Leslie M. Watts seems to like patents
[22:48:27] <habl> and to invent them
[22:48:34] <alex_joni> robin_sz: think so, it's a bit older
[22:48:41] <alex_joni> but cutting through 8mm like butter
[22:48:45] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:48:52] <robin_sz> mine does too :)
[22:49:02] <robin_sz> 10mm is OK .. but 12mm sucks
[22:49:06] <robin_sz> the 2kw shoudl do 15mm fine
[22:49:22] <robin_sz> I cut some 6mm stainless on it ...
[22:49:28] <robin_sz> slow, but it did it
[22:51:08] <robin_sz> looks like I am moving to a bigger factory soon! .. thank god!
[22:51:25] <giacus> :-))
[22:51:59] <robin_sz> not very big, just 250m^^2, but enough ... end of march / early april
[22:52:14] <robin_sz> time to plan the move!
[22:52:45] <habl> what are your products?
[22:52:48] <giacus> robin_sz: just few tons o material to move ?
[22:52:54] <robin_sz> laser cut steel parts
[22:53:06] <robin_sz> giacus: yeah, many tonnes
[22:53:12] <habl> and you sell worldwide?
[22:53:16] <robin_sz> nah
[22:53:19] <habl> or in the UK only
[22:53:22] <robin_sz> just local ...
[22:53:25] <habl> i see
[22:53:26] <giacus> robin_sz: how much away ?
[22:53:48] <robin_sz> oh, just 20km move, not far
[22:53:58] <robin_sz> will be 2km from my house now
[22:54:07] <giacus> good
[22:54:11] <habl> and you are working with plasma cutters?
[22:54:21] <robin_sz> used to desing/build/sell them
[22:54:40] <robin_sz> gave that up .. too hard. easier to just do sub-contract laser work
[22:55:16] <habl> can i asked you something offtopic?
[22:55:27] <habl> we have a customer who did not pay
[22:55:50] <habl> is there any chance to get the money back with the help of an inkasso agency?
[22:56:01] <robin_sz> inkasso?
[22:56:04] <robin_sz> inthe UK?
[22:56:11] <alex_joni> habl: there are nice russian people that do that
[22:56:13] <alex_joni> ROFL
[22:56:21] <habl> encashment agency --> yes in the UK
[22:56:43] <robin_sz> yes, possible ... just use "small claims court" ... cost is �10 or so
[22:56:44] <habl> no seriously
[22:56:57] <habl> do you have a url?
[22:56:58] <robin_sz> online filing, court delivers a notice etc
[22:57:07] <giacus> habl: for any prob ask to me, we'll send sicilian mafia there
[22:57:10] <giacus> :D
[22:57:17] <giacus> kidding ;P
[22:57:18] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/machine2/DCP_1200.JPG # one of my plasma machines
[22:58:15] <habl> nice bastard
[22:58:23] <habl> and it cuts with 2KW
[22:58:25] <habl> ?
[22:59:04] <alex_joni> that's a plasma
[22:59:07] <alex_joni> not a laser
[22:59:38] <robin_sz> https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/guidelines_main.jsp
[22:59:40] <habl> so the difference is that you have a gas-flame right?
[22:59:59] <robin_sz> thats a plasma .. not laser, cuts with an arc of electricity and air
[23:00:00] <alex_joni> no, laser is optical, plasma is constricted electrical arc
[23:00:11] <alex_joni> flame = oxy-fuel
[23:00:35] <robin_sz> habl: thats a small, crap, plasma system I built and sold a few of
[23:00:45] <giacus> laser should be much expensive too.. for what I know
[23:01:09] <robin_sz> http://www.rapidcut.co.uk/
[23:01:14] <robin_sz> thats my laser :)))))
[23:01:47] <alex_joni> robin_sz: did you hear they built an 454W laser diode?
[23:02:02] <robin_sz> wow ... not one diode, but a bar right?
[23:02:07] <alex_joni> one diode
[23:02:17] <robin_sz> wow ... really?
[23:02:18] <alex_joni> I think
[23:02:27] <alex_joni> yeah, just read it a few weeks ago
[23:02:34] <alex_joni> can't imagine how they cool it :D
[23:02:37] <k4ts> <robin_sz> wow
[23:02:49] <robin_sz> normally they are about 10W ... you put 10 in a bar about 10mm long, for a 100w module ...
[23:03:26] <robin_sz> you still need to use a YAG rod though ... laser diode beam quality is not good enough for cutting
[23:03:51] <habl> how many Milimeters does it drive per second?
[23:04:01] <robin_sz> what? hte laser?
[23:04:09] <robin_sz> when cutting or positioning?
[23:04:27] <robin_sz> 84m/minute positioning speed
[23:04:45] <mantikor_> that's fast indeed
[23:04:49] <robin_sz> cutting ... well 11m/minute in 1mm steel
[23:05:12] <robin_sz> mantikor_not really, modern lasers repositon nearly 200m/minute ...
[23:05:21] <robin_sz> mines 8 years old
[23:05:25] <mantikor_> puh
[23:05:41] <mantikor_> and you can cut directly from autocad?
[23:05:46] <robin_sz> pretty much ..
[23:05:55] <robin_sz> dxf into nestingpackage ...
[23:05:59] <robin_sz> send to laser .. parts
[23:06:24] <robin_sz> the nesting package applies the toolpath, pierce points etc
[23:06:34] <alex_joni> aka CAM
[23:06:55] <mantikor_> and this part is taking place on the machine or in your pc?
[23:07:07] <robin_sz> PC in the drawing office
[23:07:14] <robin_sz> sent by serial top the laser ..
[23:07:25] <robin_sz> job sheet printed out and given to the operator
[23:07:43] <robin_sz> loads the program, loads the steel .. presses the green button
[23:09:33] <robin_sz> anyway .... apart from that .. did anything great happen?
[23:11:12] <mantikor_> robin_sz: did you get my message?
[23:12:37] <robin_sz> mantikor_: nope ...
[23:13:05] <mantikor_> i tried to chat with you in private
[23:13:07] <robin_sz> I dont have dcc chat by the way
[23:13:18] <mantikor_> mantikor aka habl
[23:13:25] <mantikor_> i see
[23:13:31] <robin_sz> try /msg
[23:14:02] <alex_joni> you need to register your nick for that to work
[23:14:11] <robin_sz> ah, thats true ..
[23:14:35] <mantikor_> MSG robin_sz <habl> hey thank you very much
[23:14:35] <mantikor_> <habl> if we are successfull with getting our money AFF-CNC Modellbau would like to give you a small gift
[23:14:35] <mantikor_> <habl> please choose one model out of our sortiment:
[23:14:35] <mantikor_> <habl> http://aff-cnc.de/
[23:14:35] <mantikor_> <habl> and we will send it you for free
[23:14:42] <mantikor_> uppa
[23:14:48] <robin_sz> coo :)
[23:14:53] <mantikor_> that was actually not meant public
[23:15:01] <mantikor_> anyway
[23:15:17] <robin_sz> heh
[23:15:33] <mantikor_> is there a way to contact you?
[23:15:43] <robin_sz> robin@rapidcut.co.uk
[23:15:47] <mantikor_> thx
[23:15:59] <mantikor_> i will let you know next week
[23:16:33] <robin_sz> I *think* it might need to be you that registers the complaint though ... but I dont know ... maybe I can
[23:16:57] <mantikor_> i know
[23:17:11] <mantikor_> i will register the complaint that's ok
[23:17:17] <alex_joni> robin_sz: you can set your nick to accept unregistered /msg's
[23:17:24] <alex_joni> can't recall how
[23:17:34] <robin_sz> alex_joni: can I? ... hmm maybe
[23:17:47] <mantikor_> but it is a huge sum and if it works out...well it was you who gave me the helpfull information and saved us ime
[23:18:26] <mantikor_> *time*
[23:18:53] <robin_sz> huge sum? oh .. that service only works for <�1000
[23:19:19] <mantikor_> well it is <1000 Euro
[23:19:26] <robin_sz> OK,
[23:19:29] <mantikor_> but huge enough for us
[23:19:36] <robin_sz> yeha
[23:20:08] <robin_sz> the other people are Thomas Higgins .. VERY good and aggressive, but professional debt recovery solicitor
[23:20:56] <robin_sz> http://www.thomashiggins.com/
[23:21:10] <robin_sz> these people get right onto it and get good results
[23:23:09] <mantikor_> ygm
[23:24:34] <mantikor_> ygm --> "you got mail"
[23:24:55] <mantikor_> is that the shotage for that?
[23:25:28] <mantikor_> *shortage*
[23:25:35] <jepler> I don't think I've ever seen "ygm" before
[23:28:50] <robin_sz> * robin_sz goes to look
[23:33:39] <robin_sz> slightly back on topic ...
[23:33:52] <robin_sz> did you consider a shaped wing?
[23:34:05] <robin_sz> 4 axis CNC hot wire?
[23:34:15] <robin_sz> X Y motion at tip and root ?
[23:35:05] <robin_sz> I always wanted to try that ...
[23:36:02] <robin_sz> and .. while we are on .. :) ... the wings on your models .. just plain foam? or laminated ?
[23:39:50] <robin_sz> * robin_sz gazes at the models ... nice planes ... the Yoda is very neat.
[23:41:56] <mantikor_> plain - consider the models are very light --> ca. 160 grams
[23:42:05] <mantikor_> thats a bit more than a chocolate
[23:42:23] <mantikor_> check out our video at the bottom of this page:
[23:42:52] <rayh-away> rayh-away is now known as rayh
[23:43:08] <mantikor_> http://tinyurl.com/awf2c
[23:44:15] <robin_sz> I have a small air-powered plane .. foam wing with some sort of sticky-plastic film on top and bottom
[23:44:26] <robin_sz> like adhesive tape I guess
[23:44:31] <robin_sz> makes it VERY strong
[23:45:15] <robin_sz> oops 404
[23:45:23] <mantikor_> yes oops
[23:45:27] <mantikor_> good to know
[23:51:31] <robin_sz> heh, that ducted fan video ...
[23:51:43] <robin_sz> its a good demonstration of two things
[23:53:29] <mantikor_> retry in a please try again
[23:53:30] <mantikor_> http://tinyurl.com/awf2c
[23:53:41] <mantikor_> should work now
[23:54:09] <mantikor_> the yoda model is very popular in the UK
[23:54:27] <alex_joni> indoor still doesn't work
[23:55:06] <robin_sz> I still have a 3.8m thermal glider I have not flown .. hangs on the bedroom wall as decortation :)
[23:55:27] <alex_joni> decortication
[23:55:35] <robin_sz> decoration
[23:55:54] <robin_sz> so .. the Alpha Jet video shows two things.
[23:56:03] <robin_sz> 1) electric planes have really some speed now
[23:56:19] <robin_sz> 2) auto-focus cameras do not work in all situations :)
[23:56:26] <alex_joni> lol
[23:56:33] <alex_joni> and zoom doesn't either
[23:56:43] <alex_joni> at least not enough for cheam cameras :P
[23:57:07] <robin_sz> you see it get focus as it comes near, and then stay locked as it goes away to the dot in the sky
[23:57:26] <robin_sz> still, nice fast little plane
[23:57:46] <mantikor_> indoor works now
[23:58:27] <mantikor_> and that is 5 year old technique shown there
[23:59:46] <mantikor_> a really fast bastard is this one here:
[23:59:47] <mantikor_> http://tinyurl.com/7cms2
[23:59:59] <mantikor_> top speed > 350 km/h