#emc | Logs for 2006-02-02

[00:27:54] <Jacky^> *_*
[00:39:09] <Jacky^> G night
[00:39:25] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[01:15:54] <CIA-17> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: This was unnecessarily dangerous.
[01:20:56] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[01:22:03] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[11:04:11] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[11:04:28] <Jacky^> morning
[13:00:26] <Jacky^> holaaa
[13:00:42] <Jacky^> all sleeping here around ? :P
[13:03:46] <Jacky^> I've a news for all you..
[13:05:40] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is going to leave EMC :(��
[13:05:51] <Jacky^> forever.
[13:07:43] <Jacky^> Jacky^ want to thank you and he's going to leave the channel
[13:09:17] <Jacky^> It was a pleasure to talk to you :(�
[13:19:14] <Jacky^> sigh
[13:20:24] <Jacky^> after 9 months its hard to leave ..
[13:22:00] <Jacky^> I was in love with EMC
[13:22:07] <Jacky^> but I must go :(
[13:30:15] <fenn> Jacky^: http://www.aegisiraq.co.uk/images/So Long, Farewell.wma
[13:30:44] <Jacky^> fenn: ..sigh ! goodbay
[13:31:26] <Jacky^> my friend
[13:32:07] <fenn> this channel sure will be dead without you
[13:32:17] <Jacky^> I know ..
[13:32:28] <Jacky^> I've no choice :(��
[13:32:46] <fenn> have to get a job? girlfriend jealous?
[13:32:56] <fenn> too many cats?
[13:33:45] <Jacky^> I got tired, I've not so much time to go on here :(
[13:34:01] <Jacky^> too many things to do
[13:34:38] <Jacky^> too few time :/
[13:35:42] <Jacky^> anyway, remember, Jacky^ was a good guy, he's loved you :P
[13:39:50] <Jacky^> les_w: still there ?
[13:45:18] <Jacky^> alex_joni: are you ?
[13:46:27] <Jacky^> mmmhh ok, later.
[13:46:36] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[14:11:36] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[14:11:44] <Jacky^> Hi Jymmm !
[14:12:11] <Jymmm> hi
[14:12:21] <Jacky^> goodbay my friend ..
[14:12:29] <Jacky^> me is leaving the channel
[14:12:37] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ is leaving the channel
[14:12:39] <Jymmm> bu-bye!
[14:12:40] <Jacky^> :(
[14:13:22] <Jacky^> what bu- mean ? :/
[14:13:37] <Jymmm> Jacky^: You have to say it out loud
[14:13:55] <Jymmm> like bye-bye, but with an accent
[14:14:08] <Jacky^> oh .. first time I heard
[14:14:11] <Jacky^> nice :)
[14:14:20] <Jymmm> =)
[14:14:28] <Jacky^> btw, thanks, you teach me a lot of new words :P
[14:14:37] <Jacky^> but I must go now .. :(�
[14:14:45] <Jymmm> bu-bye!
[14:14:56] <Jacky^> bu-bye :)
[14:15:59] <Jacky^> I would wait to bu-bye other peoples.. but it seem they're not around !
[14:16:07] <Jymmm> lol
[14:16:13] <Jacky^> :D
[14:25:47] <Jacky^> goobye my friends. goodbye les_w paelscrit CIA-17 websys ValarQ acemi SWPadnos robin LawrenceG steves_logging ChanServ bill20r3 logger_aj djb_rh A-L-P-H-A ccjoe cradek picnet alex_joni jtr_ anonimasu Jacky^ jepler lerman bill2or3 fenn
[14:25:59] <Jacky^> :(���
[14:26:10] <Jacky^> bu-bye all
[14:26:25] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ sigh !
[14:27:15] <fenn> some of those blokes havent said anything in months!
[14:27:26] <fenn> jacky you can always just become a lurker
[14:28:15] <Jacky^> mmm.. its sad
[14:28:47] <Jacky^> but I must DO IT
[14:28:52] <Jacky^> sorry ..
[14:29:05] <Jacky^> now leaving ..
[14:29:09] <Jacky^> bye !
[14:29:14] <Jacky^> -3
[14:29:15] <Jacky^> -2
[14:29:18] <Jacky^> -1
[14:32:07] <giacus> hi all !
[14:32:21] <giacus> is this the Enhanced Machine Control channel ?
[14:32:25] <giacus> :P
[14:33:23] <jepler> giacus: yes
[14:33:34] <giacus> hi jepler , nice to meet you :D
[14:34:00] <jepler> likewise
[14:34:12] <giacus> :-)
[14:36:40] <giacus> * giacus wonder what k4ts will do this evening looking for Jacky^ ..
[14:36:44] <giacus> haha
[14:37:06] <jepler> umm, who's that"
[14:37:08] <jepler> ?
[14:37:24] <giacus> who ? Jacky^ ?
[14:37:40] <giacus> never seen ..
[14:41:34] <Jymmm> he's a bastard anyway!
[14:41:45] <giacus> I agree
[14:41:48] <giacus> :D
[14:45:22] <fenn> good riddance
[14:45:35] <Jymmm> no doubt
[14:45:55] <Jymmm> fenn Since Jacky is gone, we can move in on his girlfriend!
[14:46:31] <fenn> um, yeah, from like 8,000 miles away
[14:46:45] <Jymmm> fenn I hear she likes California
[14:46:55] <Jacky^> anyone calls me ?
[14:47:00] <Jacky^> :D
[14:54:45] <giacus> Jymmm: there are a lot of beautiful girls there around !
[14:54:57] <giacus> dman it .. and I'm here .. :(((
[14:55:22] <les_w> morning all
[14:55:25] <giacus> you've the best girls of the planet there ! :P
[14:55:26] <jepler> hi les
[14:55:37] <giacus> morning les_w
[14:55:42] <giacus> where you from ?
[14:55:45] <giacus> :D
[14:55:53] <les_w> morning giacus
[14:55:55] <cradek> giacus/Jacky^: your game isn't very funny
[14:55:56] <les_w> georgia usa
[14:56:04] <giacus> oh.. nice
[14:56:31] <giacus> les_w: what about nice girls there ?
[14:56:59] <les_w> I think I need a soft start in new servo supply for the machine
[14:57:03] <giacus> here, 40% are nice :)
[14:57:08] <les_w> the girls here have no teeth.
[14:57:14] <giacus> haha
[14:57:15] <les_w> haha
[14:57:42] <les_w> I am wondering about just throwing 3kw supply across the line
[14:57:43] <giacus> cradek: right too
[14:57:56] <les_w> plus the VFD
[14:58:00] <les_w> fuse popper
[14:58:52] <giacus> mmhh.. take care
[14:59:02] <les_w> yes jacky
[14:59:05] <les_w> haha
[14:59:09] <giacus> :)
[14:59:26] <giacus> Jacky was nice for me as nick
[14:59:46] <giacus> but .. someone tell me its a woman name :(
[15:00:09] <giacus> infact, it is ..
[15:00:31] <giacus> dunno how giacus sound in english
[15:00:39] <giacus> but it should be much better
[15:00:39] <fenn> jacky could be either
[15:00:43] <giacus> :)
[15:00:46] <les_w> heh
[15:00:51] <cradek> the very male equivalent is "jack"
[15:00:54] <fenn> girl's names like that usually end in I, like jacki
[15:00:58] <giacus> yeah
[15:01:21] <giacus> I kknow jackie maybe its right for a male
[15:01:39] <giacus> bbtw, thins new nick should be ok
[15:01:40] <cradek> jackie is more likely female than jacky
[15:01:50] <les_w> The toothless girls here are named sally mae or tammy.
[15:01:55] <fenn> whats wrong with "giacomo"?
[15:02:01] <giacus> yeah
[15:02:05] <cradek> les_w: scarlet?
[15:02:07] <giacus> giacomo cusato
[15:02:11] <les_w> well, actually they have teeth up to about age 18
[15:02:12] <giacus> name surname
[15:02:34] <les_w> My last wife was a scarlet type for sure
[15:02:53] <les_w> nice looking
[15:02:56] <les_w> crazy
[15:02:59] <les_w> had teeth
[15:02:59] <giacus> :)
[15:03:54] <les_w> The day we had divorce we went car shopping after
[15:04:09] <les_w> and she bought a $40,000 pickup truck.
[15:04:31] <les_w> "king ranch" 4x4
[15:05:25] <les_w> I have a similar truck but without all the fancy stuff
[15:05:36] <les_w> very bad ride and handling
[15:05:41] <fenn> well at least she got your money's worth
[15:05:41] <les_w> but hey it's a truck
[15:05:59] <les_w> oh it was her money
[15:06:01] <les_w> haha
[15:06:10] <giacus> :D
[15:06:34] <les_w> I still have to buy a car but don't want to
[15:06:34] <giacus> ..yes, its hard to be married here, too
[15:06:50] <les_w> ITW is bugging me about getting up there for a while
[15:07:23] <les_w> live in hotel a couple weeks I guess
[15:07:55] <fenn> change your name to "nikola"
[15:08:04] <les_w> haha
[15:08:15] <les_w> well will be doing ultrasonics
[15:08:23] <les_w> but will visit gema
[15:08:35] <les_w> they are the nikola guys
[15:08:40] <fenn> tesla was way into all kinds of resonant phenomenon
[15:08:46] <les_w> you know, invented powder coating
[15:10:04] <les_w> hmm must google power supply soft start...
[15:10:45] <fenn> big resistor, little resistor, transistor..
[15:11:16] <fenn> requires mucking around inside the vfd though
[15:12:03] <giacus> I read in today's news italian is coming to be appreciated in US school
[15:12:29] <giacus> nice news, we're going to be popoular as spanish
[15:12:31] <les_w> this should do...
[15:12:39] <les_w> http://sound.westhost.com/project39.htm
[15:12:48] <giacus> the great issue of internet is the language
[15:12:51] <les_w> better than triacs I think
[15:13:10] <giacus> I hope 15-20 years yet and we'll get a universal language
[15:13:20] <les_w> spanish is almost a second language here now
[15:13:27] <giacus> I know
[15:13:35] <les_w> latin...
[15:13:36] <les_w> haha
[15:13:45] <giacus> aramaic ?
[15:13:47] <giacus> :D
[15:13:50] <giacus> hehe
[15:13:51] <les_w> heh
[15:13:54] <cradek> esperanto?
[15:13:59] <giacus> :P
[15:14:02] <les_w> it was tried...
[15:14:14] <cradek> I know, I was kidding
[15:14:29] <les_w> hmmm yeah just a voltage relay....
[15:14:39] <cradek> English (or whatever this is called that we see on the internet) is surely going to be it
[15:14:44] <les_w> I did that in the rotary converter
[15:14:57] <giacus> usually autside countries know only 3 things about italy: pizza mafia mandolino
[15:15:04] <giacus> outside
[15:15:19] <les_w> I know more...I red the books you sent
[15:15:22] <giacus> maybe we're going right now..
[15:15:24] <les_w> read
[15:15:28] <giacus> :)
[15:15:57] <giacus> les_w: yeah, you learn more about naples
[15:16:03] <les_w> well off to the shop for me...things getting busy again
[15:16:37] <giacus> italy isnt too small :(
[15:17:09] <giacus> I'm 37 years old , I not know many places of ite yet !
[15:17:29] <giacus> there's no enough time :((
[15:18:05] <giacus> in the US I just seen Detroit, L.A ans few other place
[15:18:14] <giacus> in 20 days
[15:18:23] <giacus> live is so short
[15:18:27] <giacus> life
[15:18:55] <giacus> we need a personal plane :P
[15:20:26] <giacus> Jymmm: you should able to drive a plane
[15:20:29] <giacus> be
[15:21:02] <Jymmm> les is the pilot
[15:21:06] <giacus> If les_w teach you , you could teach me
[15:21:10] <giacus> :)
[15:21:25] <giacus> hehe, I know
[15:24:19] <giacus> I was 19 years old when I leaved the school :(
[15:24:25] <giacus> I choosed to work
[15:24:37] <giacus> it wasnt right ..
[15:25:07] <giacus> now, tryng to get it back
[15:25:51] <les_w> I went to school 2 years, worked 4, then went back to school for 3
[15:26:59] <giacus> after I understood, the best teasure a man can have is the KNOWLEDGE
[15:27:02] <giacus> :(
[15:27:39] <les_w> well, I went to school mainly because it was fun.
[15:27:54] <les_w> I almost stayed
[15:28:04] <les_w> they offered a position
[15:29:02] <les_w> But I made much more money in industry.
[15:29:39] <giacus> actually here its hard, also for guys from university
[15:30:02] <alex_joni> hello
[15:30:05] <giacus> to find a place to work
[15:30:08] <giacus> hey alex_joni
[15:30:11] <les_w> hi alex
[15:31:07] <giacus> university school here its just a good start point
[15:31:13] <les_w> It was hard here the last few years but now there seems to be a shortage of engineers and scientists
[15:31:41] <les_w> 2001 was a bad time to start a business
[15:32:33] <giacus> now isnt better .. at least here
[15:33:31] <giacus> we're waitig for political elections in april 206
[15:33:45] <giacus> its the lates hope
[15:35:01] <giacus> any family here have any son with 3 cell phone, and a car WITHOUT working ..
[15:35:14] <giacus> it can be so for a long time ..
[15:36:09] <giacus> we're going to get peoples having debits before born
[15:36:13] <giacus> damn it
[15:36:15] <giacus> :D
[15:39:34] <giacus> so, Euro is stron on Dollar, but its based on debits ..
[15:39:39] <giacus> its only paper
[15:41:19] <giacus> I'de like to rewind time and came back in 60's 70's years
[15:44:55] <les_w> here things are better...at least for me
[15:45:07] <giacus> good
[15:45:14] <les_w> I got lucky with latest invention I think
[15:45:32] <giacus> I hope weel for me too in the next future :P
[15:45:36] <giacus> well
[15:45:55] <les_w> I thought the contract would just end after one month with me writing a report that the request was not practical
[15:45:56] <giacus> individual business are ok
[15:46:11] <giacus> individual*
[15:46:15] <les_w> but then I came up with something
[15:46:43] <giacus> looking in general the prospective is bad
[15:47:16] <les_w> Well I am just trying to save most of the money for later bad times
[15:47:27] <les_w> exept for a car.
[15:47:36] <giacus> i appreciated bush sayng he's looking for alternative energy ..
[15:47:37] <les_w> except
[15:47:39] <SWPadnos> hey - I started my business in 2001
[15:47:47] <SWPadnos> Bush is a shithead
[15:47:51] <SWPadnos> can I say that on IRC?
[15:47:54] <les_w> did you have a rough start swp?
[15:48:01] <SWPadnos> um - well, sort of ;)
[15:48:16] <SWPadnos> years 1 and 2 were great, 3 was a problem, now we're back up to speed
[15:48:36] <giacus> he wait years to understand it ? :(
[15:48:48] <les_w> I gave the tool works one year notice that I wanted to resign and start my own company
[15:49:10] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:49:29] <SWPadnos> I was asked to do something which I wasn't interested in, so I said "nope - in fact, I think I'll be leaving now"
[15:49:40] <les_w> But I stayed on a bit longer because I had a NVH problem to fix in the ford taurus/sable platform
[15:49:46] <SWPadnos> gave 2 weeks notice, that was about it
[15:49:52] <giacus> to be honest I think alex_joni have the best luck to start a business from there ..
[15:50:18] <les_w> I had no problems at ITW, I just thought it was time to have my own company.
[15:50:24] <giacus> always looking with an eye to the china ..
[15:50:45] <SWPadnos> china is overrated. regular ceramic is fine
[15:50:46] <les_w> They asked if I would keep doing some projects for them
[15:51:03] <SWPadnos> sam happened with me, since I was the (only) software guy
[15:51:06] <SWPadnos> same
[15:51:16] <les_w> Many thought I was absolutely nuts...because I had (have) a fellowship.
[15:51:25] <les_w> That's a job for life...
[15:51:36] <SWPadnos> I ended up doing a couple of projects for my old company, plus I got the 3 or 4 other customers they couldn't serve any more
[15:51:58] <SWPadnos> who unfortunately all stopped wanting engineering services at the smae time
[15:52:27] <les_w> Most of my work is with the old company, but I need to diversify
[15:52:39] <giacus> mmh
[15:52:42] <les_w> but with 700 divisions....I keep busy
[15:52:49] <giacus> that's is a mistake
[15:53:23] <les_w> I do need to have work from other places
[15:53:38] <giacus> btw, the most important thing is to believe in the progress
[15:53:45] <giacus> I want to believe in it
[15:53:52] <les_w> In my upcoming trip I will visit many companies
[15:53:59] <les_w> but all owned by ITW.
[15:54:47] <giacus> dunno
[15:55:24] <giacus> I think a company can have 1 owner or 100000 owners
[15:55:32] <giacus> but not 5 or 10
[15:55:39] <les_w> SWP are all your jobs software?
[15:55:42] <SWPadnos> 3 is a bad number
[15:55:48] <SWPadnos> nope - I do some hardware as well
[15:56:13] <SWPadnos> I'm kind of in the process of designing an HD camera for network / array use
[15:56:27] <les_w> mine are all optics or acoustics work
[15:56:32] <les_w> always sensors
[15:57:08] <SWPadnos> I'm usually doing controls, or small embedded things (like the back massagers in business class in the 777)
[15:57:36] <les_w> oh yeah...you also worked on the 777
[15:57:46] <les_w> boeing is mean mean mean
[15:58:00] <SWPadnos> sort of - just cabin stuff, for a sub-sub-sub-sub-contractor
[15:58:28] <les_w> recall I did the annunciators.
[15:58:33] <SWPadnos> ah yes
[15:58:37] <les_w> First LED ones.
[15:59:09] <SWPadnos> funny - you'd think they (the aerospace industry) would have latched on to LEDs as soon as they were invented
[15:59:24] <SWPadnos> higher efficiency, cooler, and last longer than incandescent
[15:59:34] <les_w> It wasn't easy with the early hi brightess leds
[15:59:35] <SWPadnos> plus lighter
[15:59:54] <SWPadnos> I imagine that "spreading" the beam was the biggest issue
[16:00:00] <les_w> I had to really pull some optical tricks
[16:00:21] <les_w> Oh there were strigent specs for off axis brightness
[16:01:11] <SWPadnos> did you need to redesign the LED packages themselves, or just the housing around them?
[16:01:22] <les_w> The thing ended up looking like tiny newtonian telescope optics
[16:01:41] <les_w> yeah custom packages
[16:01:57] <les_w> early HP heterojuction chips
[16:02:06] <les_w> junction
[16:02:08] <les_w> heh
[16:02:39] <les_w> green was really hard then
[16:03:21] <SWPadnos> hi-brite green are still just as expensive as blue
[16:03:51] <les_w> I had to use multiple chips
[16:04:05] <les_w> cost was not much of an issue as you might expect
[16:04:29] <SWPadnos> not in aerospace, but I know the people buying from my customer were real pricks
[16:04:39] <SWPadnos> maybe that's why my people went out of business
[16:04:59] <les_w> I usually did not do aerospace stuff
[16:05:19] <les_w> car and oem industrial mostly
[16:06:42] <les_w> I think I have a job coming up making a good ir detector for hot melt glue
[16:06:51] <les_w> but for a dollar or two
[16:06:53] <SWPadnos> heh -cool
[16:06:56] <SWPadnos> or warm
[16:07:08] <SWPadnos> cost, not sale?
[16:07:42] <les_w> D* stuff. Detectors are easy. Really low cost ones are not.
[16:08:06] <les_w> especially at 7 microns or so
[16:08:33] <les_w> so stuff like silicon is out.
[16:09:00] <SWPadnos> is this a remote hot glue sensing app, or something to control the temp of the gun?
[16:09:17] <les_w> remote sensing
[16:09:57] <fenn> 7 microns? is that a wavelength?
[16:10:01] <les_w> all very simple stuff, just a cost issue
[16:10:07] <les_w> yes a wavelength
[16:12:46] <les_w> It's kind of like design issues for the little green thing on car batteries
[16:12:56] <les_w> you know, to check the charge?
[16:13:17] <les_w> That's one of ours.
[16:13:29] <SWPadnos> the electrolyte thing?
[16:13:47] <les_w> But the patents have run out so I had to design something new.
[16:14:04] <les_w> It's a little plastic ball and a lightpipe
[16:15:05] <les_w> So I had to design an electronic one.
[16:15:21] <les_w> but still as cheap as the ball/lightpipe
[16:15:41] <giacus> later guys
[16:15:49] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[16:15:54] <les_w> later giacus
[16:16:46] <les_w> I always thought the green indicator was one of the slickest inventions....
[16:17:16] <les_w> We sort the balls in vats of sugar water
[16:17:33] <fenn> what are they made of?
[16:17:47] <les_w> a copolymer....
[16:18:03] <les_w> "secret sauce"
[16:18:04] <fenn> hey come on now.. patents are up :P
[16:18:19] <les_w> the lightpipe is SAN
[16:18:19] <fenn> you probably dont know huh
[16:19:03] <les_w> that won't work haha
[16:19:11] <les_w> it's not in the patent
[16:19:51] <fenn> so now you just measure the conductivity of the electrolyte?
[16:20:21] <les_w> no I do it optically
[16:20:39] <les_w> but in a different way
[16:20:45] <les_w> you'll see it soon
[16:21:17] <fenn> nah i'm too cheap to buy a new battery.. stuff breaks and then it sits there
[16:21:48] <les_w> Well the charge monitor has only one use....warranty
[16:22:03] <les_w> dealers charge dead batteries back to the car maker
[16:22:17] <les_w> charge as in money
[16:23:25] <CIA-17> 03cradek * 10emc2/ (4 files in 3 dirs): move tkemc resources to the right place, move docs to the right place
[16:23:32] <les_w> At the auto show I set up a booth where I measured the alcohol content of drinks
[16:23:40] <les_w> with a little plastic thing
[16:23:46] <les_w> hooked to a laptop
[16:24:11] <les_w> that's not such a big deal...
[16:24:21] <les_w> the big deal is that it costs a buck.
[17:19:44] <bill20r3> bwah.
[17:25:12] <les_w> looking for a deal with big toroid transformers
[17:25:29] <les_w> seems none are bigger than 1.5 kva
[17:26:18] <bill20r3> I'm looking for ideas for cheap linear rails.
[17:26:24] <les_w> hate to start sticking secondaries in series
[17:26:24] <bill20r3> for my ghetto-mill
[17:26:41] <fenn> how ghetto?
[17:26:43] <les_w> haha
[17:27:35] <les_w> cheap is relative, but hiwin or similar is hard to beat
[17:28:13] <les_w> hundred bucks per meter, $50 trucks
[17:28:41] <bill20r3> pretty ghetto, I want to keep it under $500.
[17:28:44] <fenn> here's some options: skate bearing on gas pipe, drawer slide, centerless ground rod and precision bearing blocks..
[17:28:53] <bill20r3> mostly just to learn, I'll do a better one later.
[17:29:12] <les_w> I forgot...a router right?
[17:29:18] <bill20r3> my current thinking is threaded rod and derlin nuts.
[17:29:35] <les_w> ah yes derlin....very popular.
[17:29:41] <les_w> haha
[17:29:42] <fenn> get acme threaded rod.. it's almost as cheap
[17:30:11] <fenn> worth the extra $2 any day
[17:30:14] <bill20r3> what does the 'acme' designale? a type or a brand or what?
[17:30:19] <fenn> a thread form
[17:30:21] <les_w> yeah msc has knook acme very cheap
[17:30:23] <bill20r3> 'designate'
[17:30:30] <fenn> the pressure angle is 29 degrees versus the standard 60 degrees
[17:30:37] <fenn> so you get less "wedging" force
[17:30:41] <bill20r3> ahh, so less friction
[17:31:00] <fenn> usually they are more precise too, just because of whatever
[17:31:02] <bill20r3> I see, easier to turn.
[17:31:24] <bill20r3> is it usually a special-order item, or should I be able to find it locally?
[17:31:32] <fenn> more of a catalog order
[17:31:42] <fenn> it would probably cost a lot more locally
[17:31:54] <bill20r3> ahh, ok.
[17:32:10] <fenn> enco or mcmaster or some such
[17:32:47] <bill20r3> yeah, I was browsing enco last night.
[17:33:03] <les_w> I opened the catalog for you...acme precision stuff is about $15 for 3 feet, depending
[17:33:15] <les_w> what size?
[17:33:28] <fenn> this is what i'm gonna be using http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=408-0220&PMPXNO=942694
[17:34:16] <fenn> its quite amazing how long it takes me to finish a project
[17:34:21] <bill20r3> that's within budget.
[17:34:21] <les_w> ach IE is frozen up
[17:34:34] <bill20r3> I could get 3 pieces, cut some off the Z to make a tap..
[17:35:01] <fenn> that might be a little skinny at 6 feet...
[17:35:10] <fenn> probably 3 feet max
[17:35:31] <fenn> too much whipping will kill the nuts and bearings and accuracy
[17:35:59] <bill20r3> I'm thinking I'll want about 10-12" of XY travel.
[17:36:07] <bill20r3> not too big.
[17:36:15] <fenn> ok i thought you meant like 4-5 feet
[17:36:31] <bill20r3> nah, I want to keep it under 2feet square, I dont have a ton of room.
[17:36:35] <les_w> ok
[17:36:36] <bill20r3> and I mostly want to make small stuff.
[17:36:47] <les_w> 5/8-5 would be about right
[17:36:57] <bill20r3> actually, I think I mostly want to make a mill, since I have no solid idea of what I want to use it for yet.
[17:37:04] <bill20r3> :-)
[17:37:11] <fenn> have you read the gingery series?
[17:37:18] <bill20r3> I haven't, what is that?
[17:37:27] <fenn> teaches you how to make a machine shop from scrap
[17:37:45] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 googles.
[17:38:05] <fenn> i built the lathe.. probably would work better if you started with the shaper
[17:38:23] <bill20r3> it's worthwhile reading?
[17:38:41] <les_w> I get about 30 bucks for 5/8-5 6 feet .0009 lead ac.
[17:38:43] <fenn> hmm.. i learned a lot building the lathe..
[17:38:49] <les_w> 55 for .003
[17:38:52] <fenn> knowing how to cast stuff is pretty powerful
[17:39:20] <fenn> he teaches a lot of really basic stuff that you cant just look up
[17:39:48] <fenn> well, now that we have the internet its a lot easier to look this kind of stuff up
[17:39:58] <fenn> but most people wouldnt admit they dont know how
[17:40:18] <fenn> like how to drill a hole for instance
[17:40:23] <bill20r3> I dont know a lot.
[17:40:25] <bill20r3> heh
[17:40:44] <bill20r3> they have the gingery milling machine book on amazon for $9.95
[17:40:47] <bill20r3> * bill20r3 orders
[17:41:04] <bill20r3> fenn, how did your homebuilt lathe turn out?
[17:41:15] <fenn> better than no lathe, that's for sure
[17:41:22] <fenn> you really need to get the whole series
[17:41:28] <fenn> dont get it from amazon
[17:41:33] <fenn> go to lindsaybks.com
[17:41:43] <fenn> they had it at my library
[17:42:49] <fenn> well, the drill press book kinda sucks
[17:43:12] <bill20r3> I have amazon-prime, so I get free shipping.
[17:43:43] <fenn> do you have any power tools already?
[17:44:23] <bill20r3> mini lathe, micro mill...
[17:44:32] <bill20r3> most common hand tools.
[17:44:41] <fenn> ah building a mill should be easy then :)
[17:44:55] <bill20r3> yeah, I'm not ill-equiped, except for the knowledge part.
[17:45:32] <bill20r3> I was planning to convert the micromill, but I dont want to disable it for manuall operation
[17:46:11] <fenn> have you taken any classes?
[17:46:20] <fenn> like machine shop 101 or whatever
[17:46:28] <bill20r3> I haven't.
[17:46:41] <bill20r3> I looked, but the locak school district didn't really have anything available.
[17:46:54] <fenn> well there was this really neat "how to use manual machine tools" page but it went down
[17:47:03] <fenn> so i put up an archive i had of it
[17:47:34] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/~chrish/techindx.htm
[17:47:47] <bill20r3> I have "Home Machinists Handbook" on the way, too.
[17:48:01] <les_w> I think you could eek in a 12x12 x4 xyz with linear ball rails for about 500
[17:48:09] <les_w> excluding tronics and stuff
[17:48:19] <fenn> *cough* you mean the expensive parts..
[17:48:24] <les_w> yeah
[17:48:44] <bill20r3> I have motors allready.
[17:48:51] <les_w> good
[17:49:06] <bill20r3> its just the drivers/rails that are gonna cost me.
[17:49:16] <les_w> so moving table....let's see
[17:49:18] <giacus_afk> * giacus_afk play Carradine, Keith - I'm Easy.mp3
[17:49:27] <les_w> a little overhang
[17:49:55] <bill20r3> I was thinking of the table on one axis, and a gantry with the spindle on the other axis
[17:49:56] <les_w> I get about $250 for rails
[17:50:00] <les_w> oops trucks
[17:50:02] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[17:50:06] <les_w> that kills it for you
[17:50:12] <les_w> 50 each
[17:50:13] <bill20r3> but I dont really have any good reason for planing it that way.
[17:50:59] <les_w> gantries usually cost more
[17:51:26] <fenn> http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/articles/030303.html <- like this?
[17:51:39] <les_w> yeah we have about 600 for x and y using linear rail/4140 acme
[17:52:00] <bill20r3> you mean compared to having the X and Y movement in the table?
[17:52:04] <fenn> * fenn likes that design for some reason
[17:53:26] <fenn> most gantry router designs look like they're gonna flop all over the place - and they do!
[17:53:36] <bill20r3> ahh.
[17:53:51] <bill20r3> so the alternative is to have a solid spindle mount, and XY the table?
[17:53:58] <les_w> dual screws and very stiff construction is required
[17:54:10] <bill20r3> is it still called a 'gantry' if it's fixed? (except for the Z)
[17:54:12] <les_w> for gantries
[17:54:20] <fenn> i think the vertical column construction is worse than the gantry style as far as rigidity
[17:54:47] <les_w> can be
[17:55:05] <fenn> like a micromill for instance.. yeesh
[17:55:23] <les_w> but do go fixed z moving table for sure
[17:55:26] <bill20r3> I've seen designs where the gantry slides over the table, and some where the table slides under the gantry.
[17:55:29] <les_w> much easier for you
[17:55:41] <bill20r3> seems like having the table move would be tighter.
[17:55:44] <fenn> les what do you think of the design in the link i posted?
[17:55:56] <bill20r3> since you're not schlepping around this top-heavy assembly
[17:56:02] <les_w> the monoblock?
[17:56:07] <les_w> seems good
[17:59:43] <bill20r3> what about motorizing a cheap pre-made XY table?
[17:59:51] <bill20r3> or are the tollerances too loose on those?
[18:00:54] <fenn> why not just motorize your mini mill?
[18:01:01] <fenn> its practically the same thing
[18:02:04] <bill20r3> because I need a mill to do it with. :-)
[18:02:18] <fenn> uh, but you've got a mill right there..
[18:02:25] <bill20r3> no good reason, really.
[18:02:56] <bill20r3> all the mill-conversion pages make it look like it's some super-precision job, and I'm kind of afraid of screwing it up.
[18:03:03] <fenn> bah
[18:03:14] <fenn> i can do it in 2 hours
[18:03:20] <bill20r3> have you done it?
[18:03:28] <fenn> drill some wood, clamp some hose clamps - kablam
[18:03:44] <fenn> i have the most ghetto cnc mill ever
[18:04:19] <bill20r3> got pics?
[18:06:00] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0327.JPG
[18:06:10] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0329.JPG
[18:07:02] <fenn> i could take more but i'm embarrassed
[18:07:53] <bill20r3> :-)
[18:08:28] <giacus> fenn: great
[18:08:33] <bill20r3> are those drawer slides?
[18:08:59] <bill20r3> on pipes?
[18:09:02] <giacus> the simplest way to get a thing its always the best
[18:09:11] <sed_> GD&T is lame
[18:09:48] <fenn> those are rollerblade bearings on gas pipe
[18:09:53] <bill20r3> fenn, what're you making with it, besides example-penguins?
[18:10:06] <fenn> well, nothing really, because there's no free cam software
[18:10:16] <bill20r3> :-(
[18:10:22] <bill20r3> yeah, there is that.
[18:11:01] <fenn> i was screwing around with (jepler's ?) img to gcode program, but it doesnt do tool compensation so not very useful
[18:11:27] <fenn> i know how to make a better one, i should just do it
[18:11:33] <sed_> we are buying a 5k version of MasterCam
[18:11:56] <bill20r3> neat ABC table. http://tinyurl.com/bad32
[18:12:08] <fenn> sed_: why doesn't your "engineer" know how to do normal shop drawings?
[18:12:18] <fenn> gd&t is like metrology or inspection type stuff
[18:12:37] <sed_> cuz she came from Areospace...
[18:12:42] <sed_> or outerspace... whichever
[18:13:09] <sed_> as far as I can tell there are not many machine shops out there that practice GD&T
[18:13:46] <sed_> it seems like a good idea if everyone is on board, but to learn new shit just to make simple parts is kind of retarded
[18:14:09] <sed_> IBM tried to push UML on pleople back in 95... it didnt work for the same reason
[18:14:47] <giacus> IBM fuck
[18:14:59] <fenn> * fenn cackles
[18:15:17] <bill20r3> bill20r3 is now known as bill2or3
[18:15:42] <sed_> They dont want me to learn G-Code, (cuz she dosent) because MasterCam will write it all for me....
[18:15:43] <giacus> Ibm are blank collars
[18:15:48] <giacus> nor hackers
[18:15:50] <giacus> not
[18:16:26] <giacus> white*
[18:16:42] <giacus> white collars arent hackers
[18:17:07] <sed_> bill20r3 you work in optics??
[18:17:09] <giacus> ibm sucks
[18:17:29] <sed_> ibm sucks, but no one ever got fired for recomending IBM
[18:17:53] <sed_> and they use Linux... so not all that bad
[18:18:06] <giacus> not at all
[18:18:25] <giacus> depend on waht you mean as 'Linux'
[18:18:50] <sed_> I come from the Unix world, I could go on and on about what I meand as 'Linux'
[18:19:18] <bill2or3> no sed, I work for an ISP, my interest in cnc is just hobbiest.
[18:19:35] <sed_> its funney how Linux/Beowolf took over IBM
[18:19:43] <giacus> Linus is a looser
[18:19:49] <sed_> heh
[18:19:51] <fenn> sed_: who is having a say in what you are allowed to learn anyway?
[18:19:54] <giacus> keep in mind
[18:19:57] <giacus> :)
[18:20:01] <sed_> bill2or3 what do you do for the isp?
[18:20:06] <bill2or3> sysadmin..
[18:20:33] <fenn> i must've been a sysadmin in a previous life
[18:21:06] <bill2or3> did yo udo something bad in the life before that?
[18:21:45] <fenn> well before that i was a pointy-haired-boss :)
[18:21:53] <sed_> fenn the new "Engineer" we hired, she used to be a CNC machinist, but she never wrote G-code, dosent understand AutoCad. and suggested we buy a 21" lathe for making small parts....
[18:22:18] <bill2or3> sed, so she just clicks the "start" button a lot?
[18:22:30] <sed_> yea
[18:22:39] <fenn> damn wish i had that job
[18:22:55] <fenn> could write a script to do it for me :)
[18:22:59] <sed_> couldnt take the cad drawings the old machinist left for building our telescopes from cad to solid works
[18:23:17] <sed_> she re built all of them from .bmp images in solid works.
[18:23:34] <bill2or3> maybe she only knows "Start", and was never trained on "Import".
[18:23:42] <sed_> she claims AutoCad did not have enough information about the parts
[18:23:48] <giacus> uhmmm
[18:24:18] <sed_> Although I have already built the entire production run of parts from the autocad drawings and we wont be building any more.
[18:25:10] <sed_> I dont know AutoCad at all, but I know "Stupid" when i see it...
[18:26:51] <sed_> bill20r3 I have built a couple of ISP's and have worked as a network admin.
[18:28:28] <giacus> in 2005 ?
[18:28:59] <giacus> too simple
[18:29:16] <SWPadnos> sed_, can you get me a good deal on about 100 OC48 or OC192 routers?
[18:30:17] <sed_> SWPaddons, not to long ago the local super computing center was paying 4.5k per month for a T3.. so no... I think not
[18:30:33] <sed_> 45k rather
[18:31:06] <SWPadnos> no - I mean the hardware
[18:31:29] <sed_> oh yea.. um cant think of the name...
[18:31:33] <SWPadnos> me either ;)
[18:31:37] <sed_> they were big on ATM
[18:31:46] <sed_> not foundry...
[18:31:50] <SWPadnos> is cheap in the $1k range, $10k, or $100k each?
[18:32:03] <giacus> * giacus first provider was 14.400 modem connection in milan
[18:32:05] <giacus> later
[18:32:12] <bill2or3> 300baud babyeeee.
[18:32:13] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[18:32:33] <sed_> Marconi????
[18:32:34] <SWPadnos> 110 baud - you insensitive clod
[18:32:49] <giacus_afk> yep :P marconi
[18:33:04] <sed_> they had good FreeBSD suport
[18:33:47] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[18:34:06] <sed_> There is always ADC Kentrox... $$$$$$$$$
[18:34:18] <bill2or3> you had 110 baud?
[18:34:21] <bill2or3> scary
[18:34:40] <SWPadnos> yes, with a Tandy modem that you put the phone handsdet onto
[18:34:53] <sed_> those were cool
[18:35:15] <sed_> they used a high end variant of that on the movie war games
[18:35:24] <bill2or3> Mmmwargames
[18:35:33] <bill2or3> <--- owns protovision.com.
[18:35:40] <SWPadnos> yep - the silver ones with the toggle switch for (something I can't remember)
[18:36:05] <sed_> if you flipped the switch fast enough you coud up the baud rate
[18:36:11] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:37:21] <sed_> we need one of those
[18:37:32] <sed_> it will go good with the 21" lathe for making watch parts
[18:38:08] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:38:35] <bill2or3> wasn't that the Hayes Smartmodem?
[18:38:36] <sed_> the modem can speak GD&T to solid works and make the part with no G-Code
[18:38:40] <bill2or3> extruded aluminum case?
[18:38:50] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure Hayes was around in the 110 baud days
[18:39:00] <SWPadnos> from 300 on, they were
[18:39:11] <sed_> I had an Atari with 300 baud, it was bad ass
[18:39:18] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 tries to remember.
[18:39:32] <bill2or3> my first terminal was actuall a Brother electronic typewriter.
[18:39:48] <bill2or3> printed out stuff from bbs's. (built in scrollback!)
[18:39:49] <bill2or3> heh
[18:40:10] <sed_> Wyse (spelling)
[18:40:40] <sed_> my first computer was a Timex Sinclair 1000
[18:40:46] <bill2or3> what about using the shafts from car shock absorbers for rails? are they precision ground straight?
[18:40:49] <bill2or3> sed, you win.
[18:40:56] <bill2or3> mine was an atari.
[18:41:14] <sed_> I was the state rep for Atari
[18:41:36] <bill2or3> cool.
[18:41:57] <bill2or3> poor atari. :-(
[18:42:07] <sed_> if Nolen Bushnell got people to accept the name to mean computer and not games.. he would have ruled
[18:42:19] <sed_> his product fary exceeded IBM and Apple
[18:42:26] <bill2or3> my boss here has a Computer Space game that he got Nolan to sign across the side.
[18:42:31] <sed_> far
[18:42:32] <bill2or3> it's his pride & joy.
[18:42:34] <SWPadnos> if only I could have afforded a TT030 - sigh
[18:43:33] <bill2or3> anyone have an opinion on my shock-absorber-shaft-linear-rail idea?
[18:43:42] <sed_> to this day I would like to konw what AtariWriter on a ROM cartrage couldnt do that WordStar and a 3' stack of manuals couldnt..
[18:43:57] <bill2or3> crash unexpectedly?
[18:44:05] <sed_> could
[18:44:11] <sed_> heh
[18:44:40] <SWPadnos> err - show multiple fonts simultaneously with graphics?
[18:44:56] <bill2or3> multiple fonts are overrated.
[18:45:07] <SWPadnos> heh - well, AtariWriter couldn't do that
[18:45:09] <sed_> I dont remember if either could
[18:45:45] <cradek> to get a different font you just replace the daisy wheel
[18:46:28] <cradek> I had an extremely cool daisy-wheel printer that would autoload (it held a full ream of paper)
[18:47:16] <SWPadnos> Diablo, baby
[18:47:26] <SWPadnos> the 630, I believe
[18:47:29] <cradek> no, I think it was IBM
[18:49:14] <SWPadnos> we took a tour of the IBM plant here when I was in high school
[18:49:35] <SWPadnos> they had a line printer that was laser-dried, and could print as fast as I could run
[18:55:35] <sed_> I have a good one, my friend worked at a university on a vax which had a changetape command that didnt always work, one day across campus he saw a dude working at a terminal get up when a bell sounded to change a tape. he was informed thats how hte changetape command worked.
[18:55:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:56:26] <sed_> that and a hard drive that came with a box of metal filings for data recovery..
[18:57:56] <fenn> back before the read head was invented huh
[19:04:32] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[19:07:48] <rayh> Hi fenn Thanks for the test of the config stuff the other day.
[19:09:46] <giacus> hi rayh
[19:10:06] <giacus> nice to meet you :)
[19:10:12] <rayh> Hi.
[19:10:34] <giacus> do you remember ?
[19:10:43] <rayh> Not yet.
[19:10:57] <giacus> mmh .. ok
[19:11:04] <giacus> I was Jacky^
[19:11:13] <rayh> Ah.
[19:11:16] <giacus> now Jacky^ rip ..
[19:11:35] <rayh> Okay. That works for me.
[19:11:38] <giacus> rayh: they sayd was a female nick :(
[19:11:55] <giacus> so I changed it
[19:12:03] <giacus> just to be sure ..
[19:12:05] <rayh> I remember the name from the web stuff.
[19:12:15] <giacus> :)
[19:12:41] <giacus> anyway Jacky' sayd to me to greetin rayh
[19:12:56] <giacus> you will never seen him here around :/
[19:13:05] <rayh> And greeting to you.
[19:13:11] <giacus> hahaha
[19:13:15] <giacus> :P
[19:13:30] <SWPadnos> tell that to Jackie Gleason
[19:13:56] <rayh> Now there was a man's man.
[19:14:26] <giacus> hahaha
[19:14:56] <giacus> found him, funny man
[19:15:38] <bill2or3> would this be suitable for use as a linear rail? http://tinyurl.com/9ty9n
[19:17:26] <rayh> I refused a dozen or so cookies. I wonder if they'll serve it to me.
[19:17:28] <giacus> * giacus tryng to understnd what it is
[19:18:06] <bill2or3> ebay auction for "
[19:18:07] <bill2or3> STARRETT 496 PRECISION FLAT STOCK 5/8" x 5/8" x 18" NEW"
[19:19:23] <giacus> dunno ..
[19:19:37] <fenn> how would you mount it to the frame?
[19:19:57] <giacus> my cousin yesterday talkedt to me about optical bars
[19:20:23] <giacus> maybe he founs cheaper bars
[19:20:28] <giacus> found
[19:20:43] <giacus> what's that ?
[19:22:49] <bill2or3> fenn, not sure, probablly tap it from one side and bolt it to a 1/4" plate of stainless
[19:23:01] <rayh> 3/4 inch or 1.9 cm will sag if you put much weight on it.
[19:23:25] <bill2or3> how much is "much weight"
[19:23:28] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks
[19:23:54] <bill2or3> I imagine there'd be like 30lbs or so, with the 'Y' table and the workpiece
[19:24:06] <rayh> the 3/4 by 1/14 would be much stronger but twice the price
[19:24:08] <bill2or3> I could use a support every 6" or so.
[19:24:21] <bill2or3> like little pillars.
[19:24:33] <rayh> 1 1/4
[19:24:46] <rayh> typ0ing 101 again
[19:25:18] <bill2or3> heh
[19:25:28] <bill2or3> how thick do you think I'd need to avoid sag?
[19:25:30] <rayh> So the Y table would sit down on it with bearings on three sides.
[19:25:47] <bill2or3> yes.
[19:26:18] <bill2or3> maybe make one of the side bearings adjustable, and the other one spring-loaded.
[19:26:35] <rayh> Sure that should work well.
[19:27:06] <bill2or3> I guess I could stick a dti under it mid-span and see if it's sagging, then add supports as needed.
[19:27:43] <bill2or3> do I need to worry about using specific grade bearings, or should most be fine?
[19:27:53] <rayh> The thompson rail I've got here is about that size and mounts every 2.5 inches
[19:28:04] <bill2or3> how long is it?
[19:28:16] <bill2or3> and how heavy is it's payload?
[19:28:28] <rayh> I wouldn't worry about grade. But you ought to ask les
[19:28:39] <bill2or3> I guess there's no need to elevate it really, just attach right to the base.
[19:28:41] <rayh> 800 lb or so.
[19:28:49] <bill2or3> oh, heh, I'm looking at like 10lbs max
[19:28:51] <giacus> rayh: are you familiar with plasma cutter ?
[19:29:14] <rayh> Just a bit.
[19:29:26] <rayh> giacus:
[19:29:33] <giacus> my cuosin would build one
[19:29:40] <fenn> bill2or3: weight is the least of your worries.. cutting forces even for frozen snot (mdf) are in the hundreds of pounds
[19:30:01] <giacus> I will take some pic of his equipement in the next days
[19:30:11] <bill2or3> ahh, gotcha, so I should be more concerned with X and Y forces than "Z" ?
[19:30:15] <giacus> I need some help about it
[19:30:24] <fenn> you should be more concerned with rigidity than accuracy
[19:30:27] <rayh> giacus: Good I'd like to see the machine
[19:30:53] <fenn> i.e. a 3" pipe would probably be better
[19:30:55] <rayh> what kind of help do you need?
[19:30:58] <bill2or3> aahh, so I'm obsessing on "flat" when I should worry more about "stiff"
[19:31:03] <fenn> right
[19:31:07] <Jymmm> bdi has a FP bootspalsh with a progress meter, doens't it?
[19:31:13] <fenn> you cant get any accuracy if the machine is wobbling all over the place
[19:31:23] <bill2or3> thanks for explaining, I'd hate to go all out on the wrong attributes.
[19:31:46] <giacus> rayh: according to robin discussion, we would like to build a cnc-plasma-cutter using stepper motors
[19:31:54] <bill2or3> so like 1" rails bolted straight to a sheet of 1/4 stainless should be pretty good.
[19:32:02] <fenn> bill2or3: what you're really after is "dynamic stiffness" which means you take into account the resonant damping (or lack of it) in your materials
[19:32:05] <giacus> I will disturb you later .. :)
[19:32:19] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 googles for "resonant damping"
[19:32:20] <rayh> k
[19:33:16] <fenn> hmmm pretty sparse results on google for that particular magic phrase
[19:33:26] <fenn> you knw what resonance is, and what damping is, right?
[19:33:29] <bill2or3> yeah.
[19:33:43] <fenn> well they're opposites of each other..
[19:33:50] <fenn> more damping = less resonance
[19:33:51] <bill2or3> yeah, but I'm not %100 clear on how they go together in this context
[19:34:11] <bill2or3> you mean the wiggle you're going to get from the interaction between the cutting bit and the workpiece?
[19:34:16] <fenn> yeah
[19:34:28] <bill2or3> and how resistant your base is to developing resonance (ie: increased wiggle) due to that?
[19:35:02] <fenn> well the whole machine has to be resistant to vibration
[19:35:13] <bill2or3> I suspect I'm overthinking this, and I should just get some fat pipe and skate bearings. :-|
[19:35:28] <bill2or3> and that resistance comes from rigidity, correct?
[19:35:32] <fenn> you will need to think about it eventually
[19:35:46] <fenn> dynamic damping can be improved by lots of different things
[19:35:58] <bill2or3> so do you think a 1/4" plate is stiff enough for a base?
[19:36:02] <bill2or3> or should I go thicker?
[19:36:31] <fenn> i would go with steel tubes filled with sand/clay or concrete
[19:36:39] <fenn> er sand/oil
[19:36:43] <bill2or3> I mean for the base that they're bolted to.
[19:37:03] <fenn> what base?
[19:37:17] <bill2or3> the plate, the piece that the rails are attached to.
[19:37:26] <fenn> hmmm
[19:37:52] <fenn> here's a nice page les wrote: http://www.lmwatts.com/straightedge.html
[19:38:00] <bill2or3> I bet that's gonna be expen$ive
[19:38:19] <fenn> nah it doesnt get much cheaper than that actually
[19:38:37] <fenn> unless you make your own level or something..
[19:38:42] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 reads.
[19:39:03] <bill2or3> I mean that a 2foos square sheet of 1/4 stainless probablly isnt cheap.
[19:39:14] <bill2or3> at least compared to the aluminum I usually get for stuff
[19:39:19] <fenn> you wouldnt want to use stainless anyway
[19:39:25] <fenn> it's a pita to work with
[19:39:53] <bill2or3> yeah, I tried to cut some for a stirling I'm working on, got about 1/4" before I decided that alu was good enough.
[19:40:16] <bill2or3> you think just regular non-stainless steel? (alu is to flexy, right?)
[19:41:08] <fenn> aluminum is a very resonant material.. regular steel is a little better but not a whole lot
[19:41:18] <fenn> but steel is twice as stiff as al
[19:41:37] <fenn> better than steel would be cast iron, and better than that would be polymer concrete
[19:41:57] <fenn> and then maybe granite with viscoelastic shear layer :)
[19:42:29] <fenn> anyway steel is more than good enough for a wood router
[19:43:32] <fenn> filling the tubes with sand/oil helps to dissipate the energy in the vibrations
[19:43:37] <fenn> and adds mass
[19:43:43] <cradek> does cast iron tap well?
[19:43:46] <fenn> which lowers the resonant frequency
[19:43:56] <fenn> yeah cast iron is nice to work with, but its dirty
[19:44:13] <fenn> its self lubricating so tapping is easy
[19:44:59] <bill2or3> I'm building something for metal, not for wood.
[19:45:06] <bill2or3> btw.
[19:45:19] <fenn> oh, then you probably shouldnt call it a router.. (?)
[19:45:29] <fenn> or maybe i'm just confused
[19:45:30] <bill2or3> did I? my bad.
[19:45:37] <bill2or3> yeah, I want to mill/engrave.
[19:45:50] <bill2or3> wood is for sissies. :-)
[19:46:10] <fenn> everything has its proper use
[19:46:32] <fenn> wood is kinda like tough styrofoam
[19:47:37] <bill2or3> this page refers to a "small surface plate", is that just a piece of metal that's known to be flat?
[19:47:53] <fenn> so, with metal cutting you're going to have to worry a lot more about vibration and rigidity
[19:48:08] <fenn> a surface plate is a 2" thick granite tile
[19:48:11] <fenn> usually
[19:48:20] <fenn> and they're very flat
[19:48:28] <bill2or3> gotcha.
[19:49:05] <fenn> some surface plates are cast iron.. they have grooves in them which are good for scraping off blueing dye
[19:49:59] <fenn> you might want to have a look at my wiki if you are going to be building machines from scratch: http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/
[19:50:12] <bill2or3> http://cgi.ebay.com/SURFACE-PLATE-MACHINISTS-GAGE-STAND-TOOLING_W0QQitemZ7586990109QQcategoryZ58247QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:50:32] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 adds wiki to his mill-bookmarks file
[19:52:11] <fenn> i'd go with enco.. you get free shipping if you spend over $50.. (need a coupon though)
[19:53:29] <bill2or3> I'm sure I'l spend >$50 a couple of times over. :-)
[19:54:35] <fenn> yeppers.. get a couple boxes of hex socket cap screws while you're at it
[19:54:53] <bill2or3> we have a decent fastener store here.
[19:54:58] <fenn> ok
[19:55:01] <bill2or3> though enco is probablly cheaper.
[19:55:18] <fenn> one thing i learned is not to skimp on fasteners
[19:55:30] <bill2or3> yeah, cheap fasteners are nothing but heartache.
[19:57:23] <giacus> :)
[19:59:02] <fenn> oh and get spiral thread taps
[19:59:24] <fenn> for some reason they are more accurate and that means they are much easier to turn
[19:59:25] <Jymmm> who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ?
[19:59:31] <fenn> steve/ray
[19:59:54] <Jymmm> rayh PING
[20:00:13] <rayh> Hey what's up.
[20:00:53] <rayh> "who's in charge of linuxcnc.org ?"
[20:00:57] <giacus> 64 bytes from icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms
[20:01:04] <rayh> Steve Stallings is the webmaster
[20:01:17] <rayh> the EMC board is in charge of content.
[20:01:17] <Jymmm> rayh By chance you interested in some hosting for linuxcnc.org for $60/YEAR 1200MB storage and 25000MB traffic/month ?
[20:01:17] <giacus> 64 bytes from rayh icmp_seq=0 ttl=245 time=339.0 ms
[20:01:20] <giacus> :P
[20:01:31] <rayh> I own the site name for a couple more years.
[20:02:38] <Jymmm> rayh ?
[20:02:42] <rayh> Where is the site located?
[20:02:55] <Jymmm> rayh TX
[20:03:14] <rayh> Yours?
[20:03:46] <Jymmm> rayh no, my hosts, but I trust him, and thats a hard thing for me to do. He's a good ole boy too =)
[20:03:54] <Jymmm> rayh http://5under5.com/low_cost_web_hosting_plans.html
[20:04:12] <giacus> Jymmm: how much for a year ?
[20:04:15] <Jymmm> rayh hes' running a special double up for the top 3 pkgs
[20:04:25] <rayh> I'll copy this to the board list and we'll see what shakes out.
[20:04:25] <Jymmm> giacus http://5under5.com/low_cost_web_hosting_plans.html
[20:04:26] <giacus> ops
[20:04:28] <giacus> sorry ..
[20:04:31] <Jymmm> np
[20:04:33] <giacus> seen it
[20:05:27] <Jymmm> rayh be sure to read "Grand Opening Limited Time Double Up Offer!" on the same page.
[20:06:14] <Jymmm> rayh: I only mention it because I know someone that's trying to download an ISO and it's v e r y s l o w
[20:06:56] <rayh> I didn't think we had an ISO on the linuxcnc.org site itself.
[20:07:07] <Jymmm> rayh you could now =)
[20:07:28] <cradek> Jymmm: 25G is not very many ISO downloads
[20:07:36] <jepler> you don't get many different ISOs in 1200MB either
[20:07:39] <rayh> For a while, the sherline site was serving about 1/2 tb per month of emc stuff.
[20:07:51] <bill2or3> maybe I could put in a good word for mirroring it..
[20:07:53] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks
[20:08:01] <rayh> I certainly wouldn't want to pay for that much.
[20:08:09] <SWPadnos> no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cig?swpadnos :)
[20:08:17] <SWPadnos> no way - go to http://www.dreamhost.com/r.cgi?swpadnos :)
[20:08:17] <fenn> * fenn snickers
[20:08:17] <bill2or3> how big is it, and how much transfer(in gigs) does it do monthly?
[20:08:17] <Jymmm> ray oh, ok. np then, just a thought is all.
[20:08:18] <jepler> these people offer a lot of storage (20GB in the bottom plan) and bandwidth (1TB in the bottom plan) but they're very slow running my CGI scripts: http://www.dreamhost.com/shared/comparison.html
[20:08:20] <SWPadnos> oops ;)
[20:08:36] <SWPadnos> they seem OK to me, but I have no content on my sites
[20:08:46] <SWPadnos> cncgear is hosted on dreamhost
[20:08:47] <rayh> The linuxcnc server itself is small.
[20:08:51] <jepler> real-world performance seems to be about 200 KB/s downloading large static files on a cable modem
[20:08:56] <Jymmm> jepler %60/mo vs $60/year is a BIG diff though =)
[20:09:02] <SWPadnos> yep - same for me on DSL
[20:09:16] <fenn> SWPadnos: know any cheap/fast jpeg compression chips?
[20:09:29] <SWPadnos> FPGA
[20:09:32] <jepler> Jymmm: 2-year plan is $7.95/month, more like
[20:09:33] <bill2or3> mirrors.xmission.com <--- here.
[20:09:42] <jepler> Jymmm: and I got the first year for $30, so I'm giving them a try...
[20:10:25] <Jymmm> jepler: it's all good.
[20:11:19] <SWPadnos> $16/mo, 2-year prepay, 60G storage, 1.6 TB transfer, free domain name, tons of email, and they just added subversion to the goodies list
[20:11:26] <SWPadnos> (on dreamhost)
[20:11:58] <Jymmm> well, the cheapest on 5under5.com is $0.99/month
[20:12:32] <jepler> SWPadnos: if you want to try it out, sign up with the code "DMH"; at least when I signed up, it gave 93% off the first year. http://forevergeek.com/geek_resources/dreamhost_promo_codes.php
[20:12:38] <SWPadnos> 40M - you can barely fit DSL in that ;)
[20:12:49] <jepler> SWPadnos: but like I said, it's very slow running my CGI scripts, so I'm not thrilled with them.
[20:12:51] <SWPadnos> I've already signed up
[20:12:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos it's not for your porn collection silly!
[20:13:01] <SWPadnos> cncgear.com is there
[20:13:14] <jepler> Jymmm: you lead off by talking about a slow .ISO image download, didn't you?
[20:13:17] <jepler> SWPadnos: oh, I didn't know.
[20:13:28] <SWPadnos> damn - I wish I had known about that before :)
[20:13:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos oh cncgear is yours?
[20:13:39] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:13:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos lol, that's the V E R Y S L O W iso dl!
[20:14:17] <SWPadnos> the thing I like about dreamhost is that they always upgrade you to the best deal they offer
[20:14:27] <SWPadnos> they've upped my storage and transfer 3 times already
[20:14:41] <SWPadnos> plus I get extra weekly (it goes up by about 1% per week)
[20:14:59] <SWPadnos> what kind of sped are you getting?
[20:15:01] <SWPadnos> speed
[20:15:04] <jepler> Jymmm: what speed are you calling "V E R Y S L O W"? I measured 200 MB/s downloading 2-megabyte jpegs
[20:15:21] <jepler> Jymmm: and that's on some burger joint's free wireless
[20:15:31] <SWPadnos> 200 KBytes, no?
[20:15:45] <Jymmm> OC48 wifi huh jepler?
[20:15:47] <SWPadnos> 200M/sec would be fast indeed
[20:15:55] <SWPadnos> OC192
[20:16:00] <jepler> er, right, 200 KB/s
[20:16:02] <jepler> sorry
[20:16:12] <Jymmm> 50kb/s
[20:16:19] <SWPadnos> that's what I get as well, but I'm on 2Mbit DSL, so that's my expected cap
[20:16:36] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, off Dreamhost?
[20:16:51] <Jymmm> jepler 200 Kb/s not 200KB/s
[20:16:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos whereever cncgear is hosted
[20:17:29] <SWPadnos> that's unuusually slow. can you get faster rates from other places right now? (like kernel.org or something)
[20:17:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I'm not dlong, someone else is.
[20:17:52] <Jymmm> dl'ing
[20:17:55] <jepler> Jymmm: I meant 200 kilobytes per second
[20:17:59] <SWPadnos> oh - who, and where?
[20:18:33] <jepler> though right now wget of http://cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/bdi-4.38.iso is varying between 50 and 100 K/s as reported by wget
[20:18:36] <jepler> 1% ega 2:07:55
[20:18:46] <jepler> 1% ETA 2:07
[20:18:47] <jepler> I mean
[20:19:38] <SWPadnos> yeah - EGA is so old hat ;)
[20:20:15] <SWPadnos> strange - I'm well over 130kB/sec, and still climbing
[20:20:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos kb/s
[20:21:06] <SWPadnos> kB
[20:21:26] <Jymmm> little b is bits, big B is bytes
[20:21:27] <SWPadnos> 168 kBytes/sec now
[20:21:43] <Jymmm> does it actaully say BYTES?
[20:21:51] <SWPadnos> about 1 hour left, after 2min 38 sec
[20:22:07] <SWPadnos> mozilla, 173 kB/sec, and I'm looking at the total transferred as well
[20:22:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you on cable?
[20:22:22] <fenn> yep 170kB is about normal for dsl
[20:22:24] <SWPadnos> DSL, 2Mbit
[20:22:41] <SWPadnos> this is slower than normal, but not dreadfully slow
[20:23:14] <SWPadnos> the 180 kB/sec (now) is an overall average, including the first few seconds when it was setting up the transfer
[20:24:43] <SWPadnos> this transfer rate is comparable to a self-hosted server on a T1 line
[20:25:23] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, can you fo a traceroute to cncgear?
[20:25:27] <SWPadnos> s/fo/do/
[20:31:51] <Jymmm> 32ms
[20:31:59] <SWPadnos> not bad.
[20:32:11] <SWPadnos> I figured it'd be low, they're in LA
[20:32:29] <SWPadnos> how many hops?
[20:32:36] <Jymmm> 13
[20:32:49] <SWPadnos> ok - same for me, but I've got a 111ms ping time
[20:33:10] <Jymmm> 7 of which are on the ATM cloud
[20:33:49] <SWPadnos> I don't get out of my ISP for 3 or 4 hops
[20:33:53] <k4ts> hello
[20:33:58] <Jymmm> I only have about 40 ft of copper, and the rest is all fiber.
[20:34:10] <giacus> hmmm
[20:34:11] <SWPadnos> what's your connection?
[20:34:15] <giacus> dman it
[20:34:18] <Jymmm> dsl
[20:34:30] <giacus> failed to surprise k4ts :(
[20:34:32] <giacus> 21:32 [k4ts(n=K4ts@] hey giacus
[20:34:32] <giacus> 21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@] ah ah
[20:34:33] <giacus> 21:33 [k4ts(n=K4ts@] tanto vedono il tuo ip
[20:34:35] <k4ts> hi jymmy
[20:34:45] <giacus> hi k4ts
[20:34:53] <k4ts> ah ahhhhhhh
[20:34:55] <Jymmm> hi k4ts, did you hear jacky died?
[20:35:13] <giacus> k4ts: how you seen my IP ?
[20:35:17] <k4ts> bho? Jymmm
[20:35:23] <giacus> strange ..
[20:35:25] <Jymmm> k4ts joke
[20:35:31] <giacus> I'm using ipv7 ..
[20:35:35] <giacus> :D
[20:35:51] <giacus> ok ok .. yu win
[20:36:14] <Jymmm> giacus you suck as a SysAdmin hiding
[20:36:20] <giacus> hehe
[20:36:41] <giacus> k4ts: serach paura in the dictionary please ..
[20:36:51] <k4ts> hi hi
[20:36:54] <giacus> and tell me
[20:37:45] <k4ts> no serach seacrh
[20:37:48] <k4ts> search
[20:38:07] <k4ts> teachers error
[20:38:24] <giacus> Jymmm: you can fear what you don't know ..
[20:38:32] <giacus> I know Internet :)
[20:38:49] <giacus> I do not fear it ..
[20:39:12] <giacus> lets scan k4ts IP ...
[20:39:35] <giacus> nmap -everthing-I-think- ..now
[20:39:38] <giacus> hahah
[20:40:06] <k4ts> I go to sing
[20:40:19] <giacus> k4ts: Jacky's gone ..
[20:40:24] <giacus> forever
[20:40:26] <k4ts> in paltalk
[20:40:33] <k4ts> ah ah
[20:40:35] <giacus> platalk ? :P
[20:40:43] <k4ts> giacus chancge
[20:40:46] <k4ts> change
[20:40:49] <k4ts> nick
[20:41:08] <giacus> ok, lets go in paltalk :D
[20:41:10] <k4ts> ih ih
[20:44:17] <les_w> singing in paltalk?
[20:45:07] <giacus> :)
[20:45:18] <giacus> running the laptop ..
[20:45:50] <giacus> I do not have windows in my wk :/
[20:46:00] <les_w> ach I have a problem...must reboot
[20:46:47] <giacus> k4ts: are you ready for 4 mb dsl ?
[20:46:50] <giacus> :D
[20:48:16] <k4ts> yes singingeh giacus<?
[20:48:29] <giacus> uh ?
[20:48:35] <k4ts> whaith
[20:48:42] <k4ts> whaith
[20:48:47] <giacus> whaitho :)
[20:50:55] <giacus> _ ___ _
[20:50:55] <giacus> | | / _ \ | |
[20:50:55] <giacus> | | | | | || |
[20:50:55] <giacus> | |___| |_| || |___
[20:50:55] <giacus> |_____|\___/ |_____|
[20:51:14] <k4ts> rotfl
[20:56:01] <bill2or3> does my XY travel have to be square, or can I make Y twice as long as X?
[20:56:11] <bill2or3> and have most CAM deal with that gracefully?
[20:56:39] <cradek> non-square tables are the rule rather than the exception
[20:56:41] <SWPadnos> there are no restrictions on that
[20:56:55] <SWPadnos> a bridgeport has a table that's 9x42 inches (or even wider)
[20:57:06] <SWPadnos> travel is 24-30 in X, and 12-16 in Y
[20:57:16] <SWPadnos> (not 2:1 either)
[20:57:35] <bill2or3> k, I'm just trying to decide what dimensions to use.
[20:57:37] <cradek> usually X is the long dimension because one stands in front of the machine
[20:58:04] <bill2or3> I want to be able to work stuff about 10" square, but a few extra inches on one axis would be nice.
[20:58:32] <les_w> 12x18!
[20:59:02] <bill2or3> so my workpiece size limit per-axis is the rail-length minus the spacing between the outer edges of the rail-bearings, correct?
[20:59:16] <les_w> yes
[20:59:39] <bill2or3> looking at a mill w/ a gantry is the dimension that runs parallel to the gantry X or Y?
[21:00:00] <les_w> mine is y
[21:00:07] <les_w> but what's in a name?
[21:00:09] <les_w> heh
[21:00:15] <bill2or3> but there's not a generally accepted convention for it?
[21:00:52] <bill2or3> ok, so I'm thinking a 24" rails running "Y" with a 12" table.
[21:01:03] <SWPadnos> the gantry itself usually moves in X, the head moves in Y, and the vertical is Z, but it really doesn't matter
[21:01:04] <bill2or3> that'll give me a 12" work area without moving the piece.
[21:01:15] <SWPadnos> you need to be sure that it's a right-hand coordinate system though
[21:01:17] <bill2or3> ok padnos, that's what I needed to know.
[21:02:19] <bill2or3> do the bearings that the table is riding on need to be at the very outer edge of the table?
[21:02:27] <bill2or3> or can you move them in a bit and get a bit more travel.
[21:02:39] <bill2or3> I suppose if you're gonna do that you may as well just use a smaller table.
[21:02:42] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 thinks aloud.
[21:02:45] <les_w> no you can have some overhang
[21:03:13] <bill2or3> is there a formula, or just little enough that it wont tip?
[21:04:04] <les_w> well heh i do FEM analysis on the structures
[21:04:18] <bill2or3> uhm.
[21:04:20] <les_w> depends on what you want to cut
[21:04:25] <bill2or3> ok. (I have no idea what that means)
[21:04:39] <les_w> no metal?
[21:04:56] <bill2or3> how about a 12" table with an inch on each end of the "y" (perpindicular to gantry), does that sound reasonable?
[21:05:07] <bill2or3> I want to cut metal.
[21:05:26] <les_w> yeah sounds ok
[21:05:45] <k4ts> ops downnfall
[21:06:51] <bill2or3> k, so that'll give me a working area of 12*14 inches.
[21:06:58] <bill2or3> should be plenty.
[21:07:04] <bill2or3> on 24" rails.
[21:10:13] <les_w> understand this would be a light duty machine
[21:10:33] <bill2or3> yes, of course.
[21:10:37] <les_w> 12x14 metal cutting could easily be 1000 pounds of iron
[21:10:41] <bill2or3> I dont plan on making any engine blocks.
[21:10:54] <les_w> you can do aluminum and such
[21:11:06] <bill2or3> maybe some small RC heli parts, decorative badges for my vespa, stuff like that.
[21:11:13] <les_w> yeah
[21:11:21] <les_w> would do that fine
[21:11:33] <bill2or3> aluminum, brass, plastic, wood, no steel or iron.
[21:11:47] <les_w> no problem
[21:12:06] <fenn> free cutting steel is actually not bad
[21:12:16] <fenn> 12Lxx
[21:12:47] <les_w> well I use 12l14 for most stuff that isn't structural or to be welded
[21:13:15] <les_w> but it does require higher forces in general than 6061 or something
[21:14:30] <les_w> the aluminum and such on this 12x14 would be high rpm low chipload
[21:14:35] <les_w> not efficient
[21:14:49] <les_w> but can be done with a lighter structure
[21:15:09] <les_w> basically routing
[21:15:32] <fenn> * fenn goes back to his hexapod schemes..
[21:15:41] <les_w> heh
[21:16:02] <fenn> i am wondering how much flex i'll get in delrin anti backlash nuts
[21:16:14] <fenn> since basically all the cutting force is aimed right at the nut
[21:16:33] <les_w> oh not much if the nut is long
[21:16:58] <fenn> how long? like 2-3x diameter?
[21:17:10] <les_w> couple pitch diameters and it can be pretty stiff
[21:17:51] <les_w> it's in almost pure shear
[21:18:06] <giacus> les the room is: Italia col cuore e con la musica noi ce la faremo! I'm velenus
[21:18:22] <les_w> ok I'll go in thanks
[21:21:50] <fenn> * fenn goes to bed
[21:22:06] <bill2or3> g'nite
[21:22:22] <les_w> night fenn
[21:22:26] <giacus> G night fenn
[22:48:52] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_away
[23:16:56] <bill2or3> anyone used these drivers? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7584951843
[23:17:05] <jepler> * jepler looks
[23:18:42] <jepler> I know someone else on the channel has asked about these
[23:19:00] <bill2or3> I know everyone loves geckos, but they are $$$$$
[23:19:33] <Jymmm> only 36vdc
[23:19:53] <SWPadnos> try these, for cheap but possibly good drivers: http://www.sxlist.com/techref/io/stepper/linistep/index.htm
[23:20:02] <SWPadnos> also 35V, and no, I've never used them
[23:20:18] <bill2or3> only?
[23:20:22] <SWPadnos> open source though, so that's good (both the hardware and the software)
[23:20:25] <Jymmm> bill2or3 I bought Xylotex, but if I knew then, what I know now, I would have bought Geckos
[23:20:36] <SWPadnos> see - and Jymmm is a cheapskate
[23:20:38] <bill2or3> I dont understand why the drivers all want so many more times voltage than the stepper motor uses
[23:20:44] <SWPadnos> err - budget minded person
[23:20:51] <SWPadnos> so they can go faster
[23:21:02] <Jymmm> bill2or3 If for nothing else other than the anti-stall factor.
[23:21:16] <bill2or3> so are they being driven at more volts than they're spec'd for?
[23:21:21] <Jymmm> bill2or3 you run steppers at 20 to 25 times their rated voltage.
[23:21:25] <bill2or3> you do?
[23:21:29] <bill2or3> I did not know that.
[23:21:38] <SWPadnos> yes - voltage doesn't kill the motors until you get very high - it's current that kills
[23:21:50] <jepler> bill2or3: Steppers are inductors. The current rise time is important, otherwise you have less power at high step rates.
[23:21:57] <SWPadnos> but the choppers are current-limited, so they don't kill the motors
[23:22:04] <bill2or3> ahh, so you're actually running them at whatever voltage your powersupply outputs?
[23:22:08] <Jymmm> bill2or3 read this --> http://www.geckodrive.com/photos/Step_motor_basics.pdf
[23:22:15] <SWPadnos> yes, but no higher than the rated current
[23:22:17] <jepler> bill2or3: A "chopped" supply with high voltage gives you fast current rise time while obeying to power limit of the stepper
[23:22:22] <bill2or3> heh, that's on my screen at home.
[23:22:34] <SWPadnos> well, read it, then come back and ask questions ;)
[23:22:53] <bill2or3> yeah, I opened it at like 2:30 am, so I didnt exactly comprehend it so well.
[23:23:12] <jepler> SWPadnos: know anybody who's actually used linistepper? I'm put off by this picture of the boards with their heatsinks: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/RB-ezy-Q33/jelly01.jpg
[23:23:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[23:23:37] <SWPadnos> it is a homebrew-centered kit
[23:23:38] <bill2or3> that's a big-ass sink
[23:23:54] <SWPadnos> I don't know anyone who uses them, but I saw them on eBay when I was first looking at servos/steppers
[23:24:23] <bill2or3> $75 for 3 is cheap, for sure.
[23:24:49] <Jymmm> bill2or3 what kind of machine?
[23:24:59] <SWPadnos> hf micromill
[23:25:25] <Jymmm> ah
[23:26:19] <jepler> if you can fabricate the PCBs, consider http://www.pminmo.com/l297-8/l297-8.htm .. bipolar, up to 46V
[23:26:26] <SWPadnos> heh - here's a nice CNC: http://www.sxlist.com/images/member/pele-balorda-com/Cnc.jpg
[23:27:05] <bill2or3> jymm, just a small DIY mill
[23:27:46] <Jymmm> bill2or3: Well, you could always move the geckos to another machine if you wanted to later on.
[23:28:11] <bill2or3> yeah.
[23:28:19] <bill2or3> did you replace your xylotex?
[23:28:38] <SWPadnos> heh - each gecko costs almost as much as the mill (or is it a bit more) :)
[23:29:25] <Jymmm> bill2or3 no, still using them, but once in a while I make Sailors blush.
[23:29:36] <Jymmm> s/them/xylotex/
[23:30:14] <bill2or3> ehe
[23:30:31] <bill2or3> my mill was like $240, so a gecko is a bit less.
[23:31:06] <Jymmm> bill2or3 When you have 3 days into a project, then get 99% completed and it stalls and you have to start over agian... there's gonna be a LOT of cussing goin on.
[23:31:11] <bill2or3> but I'll spend more than that on building a cnc one.
[23:31:37] <bill2or3> when you say stalls, do you mean it's not able to drive the motors because it cant pass enough power?
[23:31:43] <bill2or3> so you have to slow everything down?
[23:32:03] <SWPadnos> no - so it screws up the part, because one of the axes stopped ...
[23:32:20] <SWPadnos> if everything slowed down, there wouldn't be problems
[23:32:30] <SWPadnos> (except for finish and prematre tool wear)
[23:32:33] <SWPadnos> premature
[23:33:27] <Jymmm> bill2or3 stall == pause one axis just long enough to destroy your work.
[23:34:18] <bill2or3> ahh.
[23:34:37] <bill2or3> and that happens because your drivers are under-powered?
[23:34:59] <Jymmm> bill2or3 No, the nature of stepper motors, explained in the pdf link
[23:35:24] <bill2or3> k, I'll read that over until I understand it completely.
[23:37:27] <Jymmm> bill2or3 http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/step/physics.html#damping
[23:38:00] <Jymmm> Living with Resonance
[23:40:27] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 reads.
[23:41:45] <bill2or3> the "Controlling resonance in the low-level drive circuitry" part is where the Gecko's excell?
[23:42:44] <Jymmm> bill2or3 geckos have circitry to prevent stalling.
[23:44:26] <Jymmm> stall ing is also called "Mid-Band Resonace" or "Mid-Band Instability"
[23:44:38] <bill2or3> is that something only they do, or is it a common feature?
[23:44:47] <bill2or3> gotcha
[23:44:57] <Jymmm> only one I'm aware of that offers that.
[23:45:56] <bill2or3> k.
[23:46:14] <bill2or3> so it soulds like everything else is a compromise.
[23:47:31] <bill2or3> 'sounds'
[23:49:23] <sed_> what is the average cost to retrofit a small mill to CNC?
[23:50:26] <bill2or3> sed, I've been looking, and it varies a lot, but my best guess is somewhere in the $600-1000 area
[23:51:08] <sed_> can I leave the Acme screws in or is it a must to replace them?
[23:54:12] <bill2or3> what mill do you have?
[23:54:30] <sed_> well the one I would play with is a small POS Jet
[23:54:38] <bill2or3> standard grizzly/harborfreight type?
[23:54:39] <sed_> knee mill
[23:54:52] <sed_> not quite harbor freight
[23:54:55] <sed_> close
[23:55:01] <bill2or3> I dont really know on the screws.
[23:55:19] <bill2or3> I'm just researching still, I haven't started work.
[23:55:20] <sed_> Although some harbor freight stuff is quite good
[23:55:33] <sed_> what have you decided for the motors?
[23:56:34] <bill2or3> I got some 282oz nema23's off ebay
[23:56:42] <sed_> PIC Servo makes a controller that will run three phase motors up to like 8 amps
[23:57:10] <sed_> and its serial
[23:57:26] <sed_> one small box will control 4 axis
[23:57:33] <sed_> or maby three, I forget
[23:58:27] <bill2or3> I got these ones: http://tinyurl.com/dzao6
[23:58:30] <bill2or3> serial? wierd.
[23:59:38] <sed_> what are you gong to drive them with?