#emc | Logs for 2006-01-31

[00:06:27] <CIA-17> 03cradek * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: seems to fix it on ubuntu (the missing $f was a bug everywhere)
[02:01:13] <Jymmm> hi les
[02:03:43] <fenn> ah foo
[02:03:50] <fenn> excuse me :)
[02:04:01] <fenn> anyone tried microwaving wood to season it?
[02:05:46] <Jymmm> fenn dont leave it in too long or will catch on fire =)
[02:06:52] <fenn> nah once the waters boiled out it cant get any hotter
[02:07:01] <fenn> if you cook it too fast it might crack though
[02:12:30] <Jymmm> oh you said wood, I thought you meant pot =)
[02:20:04] <fenn> no comment
[02:48:22] <Jymmm> fenn BUSTED!
[03:43:44] <CIA-17> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/Makefile: oops
[04:28:36] <CIA-17> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): allow emc to work when CVS keyword substitution hasn't taken place
[06:13:13] <fenn> is there such a thing as a switched-mode speaker amp?
[06:14:05] <fenn> guess i should at least try to look before asking dumb questions
[07:36:49] <Jymmm> switched-mode?
[07:42:23] <fenn> if you turn a transistor halfway on (like in a linear amp) a lot of power is dissipated unnecessarily
[07:42:54] <fenn> instead you turn it on and off quickly to simulate an analog signal
[07:43:01] <Jymmm> FSK
[07:43:13] <fenn> fsk?
[07:43:22] <Jymmm> PWM
[07:43:41] <fenn> right
[07:44:12] <fenn> fsk seems to be something different
[07:44:25] <Jymmm> I know that are push-pull amps, and many other kinds as well, but les would know more about that than I. Class A amps, Class B amps, Class AB amps
[07:45:16] <Jymmm> http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14180/css/14180_41.htm
[07:45:57] <fenn> tpub is pretty cool
[07:46:59] <Jymmm> no idea, just googled and that came up.
[07:48:38] <Jymmm> Ah, much better --> http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14180/index.htm
[07:48:44] <fenn> its basically OCR'd military training manuals
[07:49:15] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[07:53:22] <fenn> didnt see anything in there about switching amps
[07:54:36] <fenn> i guess this is commonly referred to as a 'digital amplifier"
[07:55:41] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[07:58:56] <Jymmm> G'Night
[08:00:24] <Jymmm> Hi anonimasu, G'Night anonimasu
[08:04:40] <anonimasu> hello
[08:19:25] <alex_joni> morning
[08:35:05] <A-L-P-H-A> can you believe that it's already been 1/12 of a year
[08:36:49] <anonimasu> yes
[08:37:51] <A-L-P-H-A> went by pretty quickly for me
[08:38:02] <A-L-P-H-A> another 5.5 months, and I'll be even older.
[08:38:06] <A-L-P-H-A> 27. :(
[08:44:51] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: happy ;)
[08:44:59] <alex_joni> happy ageing
[08:47:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:47:32] <anonimasu> :D
[08:57:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I am aging. :(
[10:26:56] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[10:27:01] <Jacky^> morning :)
[11:52:20] <Jacky^> uh
[11:52:40] <Jacky^> what is this? http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Taumel_142_b.png
[11:56:36] <fenn> looks like an rc helicopter thingamabob
[11:56:52] <fenn> swashplate
[11:56:52] <Jacky^> thats strange thing ..
[11:57:00] <Jacky^> :)
[12:38:34] <Jacky^> ahahaha
[12:38:37] <Jacky^> http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2006/01/lets_black_out_china.html#comments
[12:38:40] <Jacky^> :D
[12:58:59] <alex_joni> double yay, and triple yay :D
[12:59:06] <alex_joni> I finally managed to enable DMA here :D
[12:59:24] <Jacky^> hdparm ?
[12:59:53] <alex_joni> yeah, but until now it always caused errors
[13:00:13] <alex_joni> hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc
[13:00:13] <alex_joni> /dev/hdc:
[13:00:13] <alex_joni> setting using_dma to 1 (on)
[13:00:13] <alex_joni> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted
[13:00:16] <alex_joni> using_dma = 0 (off)
[13:00:52] <Jacky^> is the cdrom /dev/hdc ?
[13:01:25] <alex_joni> well, that's a bad paste
[13:01:27] <alex_joni> it was hda
[13:01:34] <alex_joni> a 250GB WD drive
[13:01:45] <alex_joni> but it was a kernel problem
[13:01:51] <alex_joni> booting a 2.4 non-SMP worked
[13:02:00] <alex_joni> only this 2.6.8-SMP didn't work
[13:02:11] <alex_joni> I had to manually specify piix to load on startup
[13:02:12] <Jacky^> oh.. smp, never tried it ..
[13:02:13] <alex_joni> now it works
[13:02:17] <Jacky^> good
[13:23:51] <alex_joni> Jacky^: you said something about hdparm the other day, where does it store configs?
[13:24:14] <alex_joni> nm, found it
[13:24:44] <Jacky^> zless /usr/share/doc/hdparm/README.Debian.gz
[13:25:24] <alex_joni> vi /etc/hdparm.conf
[13:25:30] <Jacky^> also
[13:26:11] <Jacky^> I've a script in /etc/init.d/hdparm
[13:26:32] <Jacky^> its not recognized by rcconf
[13:26:47] <Jacky^> it was installed by hdparm package
[13:28:07] <Jacky^> /etc/hdparm.conf should be ok to customize it
[13:34:08] <Jacky^> HDIO_SET_DMA failed: Operation not permitted, wonder if is a kernel bug ..
[13:35:21] <Jacky^> its seem the kernel is compiles without DMA support
[13:35:28] <Jacky^> compiled*
[13:39:55] <Jacky^> alex_joni:
[13:40:07] <Jacky^> asked in #debian ..
[13:40:29] <Jacky^> 14:38 < tralala> Jacky^: you need to load the ide drivers for your chipset before the ide-disk module
[13:40:47] <Jacky^> 14:39 < tralala> Jacky^: you can do that by generating a new initrd image
[13:44:01] <Jacky^> mkinitrd should help
[13:46:10] <alex_joni> oh, so I need a new initrd?
[13:46:20] <Jacky^> I think so
[13:46:52] <alex_joni> ok, I added piix to /etc/modules, and that was better
[13:47:03] <alex_joni> at least on last reboot, now it won't work again :(
[13:47:12] <alex_joni> I'll try a new initrd image
[13:47:50] <Jacky^> i'll to
[13:47:55] <Jacky^> too
[13:49:00] <alex_joni> hrmm.. seems only /etc/hdparm.conf doesn't work
[13:49:36] <Jacky^> alex_joni: wich kernel ?
[13:49:37] <alex_joni> I rebooted without /etc/hdparm.conf, and now running hdparm -c1 -d1 /dev/hda works OK
[13:49:51] <alex_joni> Linux xeon 2.6.8-2-686-smp #1 SMP Tue Aug 16 12:08:30 UTC 2005 i686 GNU/Linux
[13:49:56] <Jacky^> im using 2.6.14-2-686
[13:50:05] <alex_joni> from sarge?
[13:50:11] <Jacky^> sid
[13:50:14] <alex_joni> I didn't find it..
[13:50:21] <alex_joni> well not going to use sid on this machine
[13:50:22] <Jacky^> unstable
[13:50:25] <alex_joni> right
[13:50:35] <alex_joni> I might consider testing, but definately not unstable
[13:51:04] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[13:51:37] <alex_joni> it's a vital machine (will be)
[14:56:48] <alex_joni> hi Jacky^
[14:56:53] <alex_joni> any luck with mkinitrd ?
[14:57:27] <Jacky^> alex_joni: its a long story ..
[14:57:31] <Jacky^> tring to solve
[14:57:59] <Jacky^> I heard mkinitrd cna't work with 2.6.14 kernel
[14:58:09] <Jacky^> yaird should be ok
[14:58:12] <Jacky^> its a bug
[14:58:20] <Jacky^> now tryng ..
[14:58:29] <alex_joni> any special commands?
[14:58:55] <Jacky^> if you switch to initramfs-tools this would work first time, but that requires you to install udev, you can work (maybe) around this bug in yaird by reading the bug report and following the instructions in there (possibly substituting your ide chipset for whichever they are fixing in the bug)
[15:00:08] <Jacky^> 15:50 < dpkg> #345374:N[yaird] yaird: Cannot turn DMA support for ide devices on; Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:33:01 UTC
[15:00:18] <Jacky^> looking ..
[15:03:38] <Jacky^> I tried to add sis5513 (my chipset) in /etc/mkinitrd/modules and rebuild with mkinitrd -o /boot/initrd.img-2.6.14-2-686 but didnt work
[15:03:56] <Jacky^> lets try yaird
[15:08:03] <alex_joni> yaird? what's that?
[15:08:29] <Jacky^> http://www.google.it/search?hl=it&q=yaird+bug+345374&btnG=Cerca+con+Google&meta=
[15:08:45] <Jacky^> there's some interesting discussion about that bug
[15:10:03] <alex_joni> any clear conclusion?
[15:10:42] <Jacky^> not yet
[15:10:55] <Jacky^> was tryng to install the new kernel 2.6.15
[15:11:01] <alex_joni> it's strange.. because it does work for me
[15:11:01] <Jacky^> look:
[15:11:08] <alex_joni> with piix added to /etc/modules
[15:11:12] <Jacky^> Configuro linux-image-2.6.15-1-686 (2.6.15-3) ...
[15:11:12] <Jacky^> Running depmod.
[15:11:12] <Jacky^> Finding valid ramdisk creators.
[15:11:12] <Jacky^> Using mkinitrd.yaird to build the ramdisk.
[15:11:12] <Jacky^> yaird error: could not open /usr/lib/yaird/conf/Templates.cfg (fatal)
[15:11:14] <Jacky^> mkinitrd.yaird failed to create initrd image.
[15:11:17] <Jacky^> Failed to create initrd image.
[15:11:20] <Jacky^> dpkg: errore processando linux-image-2.6.15-1-686 (--configure): il sottoprocesso post-installation script ha restituito un codice di errore 9
[15:11:22] <Jacky^> Sono occorsi degli errori processando: linux-image-2.6.15-1-686
[15:11:24] <alex_joni> but not with using /etc/hdparm.conf
[15:11:25] <Jacky^> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[15:11:27] <Jacky^> using apt
[15:11:39] <alex_joni> guess that's why it's unstable
[15:11:44] <Jacky^> hdparm doesnt matter..
[15:11:47] <alex_joni> did you apt-get install yaird?
[15:11:55] <Jacky^> yeah, already installed
[15:12:06] <Jacky^> I do not have udev
[15:12:12] <alex_joni> Jacky^: if I switch off any hdparm stuff from /etc/hdparm.conf, and issue them manually after the boot it WORKS
[15:12:21] <alex_joni> just not at boot-time
[15:12:54] <Jacky^> ok, lets see if I can get yaird working ..
[15:30:28] <alex_joni> Jacky^: I just rebooted, and it works right
[15:30:38] <alex_joni> without anything in /etc/hdparm.conf
[15:30:44] <alex_joni> so I'll leave it like that for now
[15:31:46] <Jacky^> Im now running 2.6.15 kernel. fixed Yaird issue copyng Template.cfg , but didnt work yet ..
[15:32:01] <Jacky^> I think initramfs-tools should solve
[15:32:08] <Jacky^> now tring that
[15:32:13] <alex_joni> like I said.. I'll wait till debian releases a new kernel
[15:32:42] <Jacky^> dma should work out of the box.
[15:32:53] <Jacky^> using initramfs-tools
[15:33:05] <Jacky^> im going to try
[15:42:38] <Jacky^> alex_joni: it work now
[15:42:47] <alex_joni> nice, what did you do?
[15:43:30] <Jacky^> I installed 2.6.15-1-686 kernel, nut it should work also with other, I was having the same issue with the 2.6.14
[15:44:09] <Jacky^> udev and initramfs-tools
[15:44:15] <alex_joni> jepler: http://www.themeatrix.com/romanian/
[15:44:16] <Jacky^> are now installed
[15:44:22] <alex_joni> Jacky^: http://www.themeatrix.com/romanian/
[15:44:45] <Jacky^> I removed 2.6.15-1-686 kernel-image and reinstalled
[15:45:02] <Jacky^> it has created the correct links and image
[15:46:10] <alex_joni> any special commands you used?
[15:46:17] <Jacky^> nope
[15:46:56] <Jacky^> I tried to manually create the initrd by using yaird before, but it didint work
[15:47:21] <Jacky^> after installed initramfs-tools and reinstall the kernel-image it work
[15:47:23] <alex_joni> so basicly 'apt-get install udev initramfs-tools'
[15:47:28] <Jacky^> yeah
[15:47:34] <alex_joni> then initramfs ?
[15:47:43] <alex_joni> apt-get install kernel-image ?
[15:47:45] <Jacky^> nope
[15:47:57] <Jacky^> apt-get linux-imageXXXX
[15:48:04] <Jacky^> or kernel-image
[15:48:10] <Jacky^> dunno what youre using
[15:48:19] <alex_joni> kernel-image, as it's 2.6.8
[15:48:36] <Jacky^> you was having the dma issue with that ?
[15:49:25] <Jacky^> anyway should be correct, yes
[15:49:51] <Jacky^> hahaha nice flash file :)
[15:51:37] <Jacky^> as I sayd it didnt work after I tried to manually build the /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-1-686 with yaird, it goes in Kernel panic
[15:52:07] <Jacky^> it worked after I did apt-get remove kernel reinstall kernel..
[15:53:31] <Jacky^> and, its ok, I'm able to manually set dma on off using hdparm now
[15:53:51] <Jacky^> btw, it is always on at boot time
[15:55:02] <Jacky^> but havent tried old kernel images i've
[15:55:33] <Jacky^> mmm going to check
[15:58:32] <Jacky^> its ok, it also work for others kernel
[15:59:05] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ came back to 2.6.15
[16:10:07] <alex_joni> nice
[16:19:39] <Jacky^> wonder when ati will release the drivers for xorg 7
[16:19:50] <SWPadnos> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
[16:19:55] <SWPadnos> that's funny
[16:19:56] <Jacky^> :(
[16:20:16] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: what ? :)
[16:20:21] <SWPadnos> almost as funny as Matrox releasing a new Linux driver
[16:20:24] <SWPadnos> :(
[16:20:48] <Jacky^> I found an howto here http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ATI_Radeon_8.20.8_and_Xorg_7
[16:21:07] <SWPadnos> the drvers are supposed to be compatible between XOrg and XFree86
[16:21:13] <Jacky^> but cant see anything about xorg 7 in the ati website ..
[16:22:08] <Jacky^> xorg 6.8 its ok.. but I'm using xorg 7
[16:22:19] <Jacky^> 708 frames in 5.0 seconds = 141.464 FPS
[16:22:28] <Jacky^> its slow ..
[16:22:35] <SWPadnos> well, ATI has been pretty bad about drivers for the last few years, I wouldn't hold my breath
[16:22:48] <SWPadnos> the GATOS drivers may be OK, but they're not as well accelerated
[16:22:59] <Jacky^> uhmm.. no
[16:23:09] <SWPadnos> that is slow. I get between 11000 and 12000 on my NVidia card
[16:23:13] <Jacky^> I have to run vmware and 3D cad too :/
[16:23:19] <SWPadnos> as do I
[16:25:39] <Jacky^> someone sayd got a good results using Radeon instead of fglrx driver
[16:25:46] <Jacky^> I doubt it ..
[16:29:05] <SWPadnos> I lost track some time ago. my only ATI card is a Radeon 8500DV
[16:29:23] <Jacky^> 256 mb ?
[16:29:31] <SWPadnos> 64 or 138
[16:29:34] <SWPadnos> 128
[16:29:39] <SWPadnos> I don't remember
[16:29:55] <Jacky^> the mine is 256
[16:30:20] <SWPadnos> 64M, but it's with the remote and the video breakout box (plus firewire and stuff)
[16:30:35] <Jacky^> cool
[16:30:39] <SWPadnos> I didn't think the 8500 could handle that much
[16:30:52] <Jacky^> I use tvtime to watch tv on a corner of my desktop
[16:32:41] <SWPadnos> I actually bought that card so I could make a MythTV machine in the theater
[16:32:56] <Jacky^> cool
[16:33:01] <SWPadnos> never got there though, and now the SFF computers are so much spiffier for that
[16:33:17] <SWPadnos> there's even a dual opteron smal form factor machine O_O
[16:33:34] <Jacky^> :-)
[16:33:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe I can afford just one more "little" computer ;)
[16:34:58] <SWPadnos> this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16856101809
[16:36:13] <Jacky^> looks nice
[16:36:21] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:36:29] <SWPadnos> a whole lot of power in a small package
[16:36:57] <SWPadnos> but then again, a fanless computer would be better in that situation (also, I'm just noticing that this has no optical audio inputs or outputs)
[16:38:06] <Jacky^> maybe Ive seen something like that produced by apple in some shop in naples, weeks ago
[16:38:11] <Jacky^> not sure ..
[16:38:20] <SWPadnos> the mac mini is quite similar
[16:39:04] <Jacky^> probably expensive
[16:39:55] <Jacky^> the yours seems a good choice
[16:40:05] <SWPadnos> I think the mac mini starts in the $500 range, but once you add enough stuff to make it really useful, you could have that little dual opteron supercomputer
[16:40:15] <Jacky^> yeah
[16:40:31] <Jacky^> much better :)
[16:41:10] <SWPadnos> yep - $699 for a 1.42GHz PPC, plus monitor, keyboard, mouse (and that's only 80G HD + 512M RAM)
[16:41:46] <SWPadnos> closer to $1000 when you add in that stugg, and upgrate to 100G / 1G
[16:41:53] <SWPadnos> stuff
[16:59:03] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm
[16:59:08] <Jacky^> take a look at what I had to send to Idroid expert to get it understand I was doing anything right and the sound follower board on my robot is defective..
[16:59:09] <Jymmm> hi
[16:59:26] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/idroid.jpg
[16:59:33] <Jacky^> after I send 3 email, they was asking again if I used the correct cable.. withou read any quoted text on the email !
[16:59:50] <Jacky^> after they have seen the photo, they sayd, well, you should ask to our call center the sostitution of the board.. O_O
[17:00:10] <bill20r3> if they don't have a form letter for it, they cant help you.
[17:00:15] <Jacky^> they are doing a disaster sending the parts to the peoples: defective boards, wrong cables, defective gears, someone (readed in the forum)had some battery explosion too
[17:01:13] <Jacky^> If you look at the spot, they say: you just need a screwdriver to build your robot !
[17:01:19] <Jacky^> hahaha
[17:02:23] <Jacky^> funny
[17:02:57] <Jacky^> :(
[17:04:34] <Jacky^> bill20r3: you can explain as better as you can, but some people believe only when see with his eyes
[17:04:52] <bill20r3> yeah.
[17:05:28] <bill20r3> in nov I had to call Dell because my lcd's powersupply was failing, took me 30mins to convince them that my lcd actually used an external supply
[17:05:44] <Jacky^> :/
[17:05:44] <bill20r3> had to send the tech to an ebay auction for the same part and say "I NEED THAT THING!"
[17:05:48] <Jacky^> ggrrr
[17:05:52] <bill20r3> lousy outsourced tech support.
[17:09:29] <bill20r3> http://www.instructables.com/ex/i/8712E18AF6EF10279383000D61419BA3/?ALLSTEPS
[17:09:33] <bill20r3> neat DIY 3d scanner.
[17:10:54] <Jacky^> nice ..
[17:11:12] <Jacky^> but I've about 20 links on bookmarks like that
[17:13:02] <Jacky^> http://www.splinescan.co.uk/
[17:13:17] <Jacky^> and so on .. :(
[17:13:29] <fenn> blegh
[17:13:54] <fenn> * fenn wants to make a DIY MRI scanner
[17:14:14] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ decided to buy it :(
[17:14:26] <fenn> splinescan is such a horrible piece of junnk
[17:22:20] <Jacky^> its seems to me like to look at the moon with a binocle, not with a telescopy
[17:23:15] <Jacky^> High quality od lens, camera, laser, should make the difference
[17:23:18] <Jacky^> of
[17:24:45] <Jacky^> that culd mean 20-30K Euro
[17:27:13] <fenn> what does parallax have to do with laser scanning?
[17:27:40] <Jacky^> how it work ?
[17:27:49] <Jacky^> on what depend accurancy ?
[17:28:10] <fenn> the shape of the line traced by the laser
[17:28:35] <fenn> and the ability of the software to pick out only that line
[17:28:35] <Jacky^> yes, I agree ..
[17:29:06] <Jacky^> routine to process the image arent a secret for what I know
[17:29:12] <fenn> laser scanners dont like radiosity
[17:30:19] <fenn> maybe if you had a low-energy neutron beam... :0
[17:30:23] <Jacky^> do you use a camera to capture the image right ?
[17:30:27] <fenn> right
[17:31:18] <Jacky^> looking at the difference beetwen my sony cybershot and the k4ts nikon there's a sea of difference
[17:31:41] <Jacky^> in only E. 300 more
[17:32:26] <Jacky^> talking about quality image
[17:33:12] <chinamill> Hello everyone
[17:33:19] <Jacky^> hello chinamill
[17:33:40] <bill20r3> hi.
[17:33:48] <fenn> supposedly digital cameras for photometrics are ungodly expensive
[17:33:55] <chinamill> Does anyone know a *nix gcode simulator?
[17:34:09] <bill20r3> simulator? like to show toolpaths?
[17:34:18] <fenn> axis is pretty good in sim mode
[17:34:29] <fenn> dont ask me how to do sim mode
[17:34:41] <chinamill> To sinulate the toolpath threw the worked piece
[17:34:55] <Jacky^> fenn: I think a good 3D scanner use special optical lens, and circuits
[17:34:58] <jepler> AXIS started as a standalone g-code viewer, it should not be difficult to make it work that way again
[17:35:13] <jepler> patches happily accepted
[17:35:19] <fenn> arg
[17:35:20] <Jacky^> using a 'normal' camera is a cheap way
[17:36:37] <chinamill> * chinamill is away: eating
[17:37:00] <les_w> hi all
[17:37:12] <Jacky^> hey les_w :P
[17:37:18] <les_w> hi jacky
[17:37:36] <Jacky^> any progress with you work ?
[17:37:41] <les_w> just trying to work out some safer control logic for the machine
[17:38:07] <les_w> It seems there is no way around doing a tool change on a hot spindle
[17:38:12] <les_w> in other words
[17:38:29] <Jacky^> mmm .. yeah
[17:38:29] <les_w> VFD is powered up but commanded in off state
[17:38:39] <fenn> les_w: would a crappy homemade PWM motor driver amp suffice for a subwoofer amp?
[17:39:03] <les_w> ha...yeah fenn I would work
[17:39:10] <les_w> and sound bad
[17:39:20] <les_w> I think
[17:39:41] <les_w> how much power do you want?
[17:39:51] <fenn> do you need to tune the output filters for a specific speaker or for a specific frequency?
[17:40:11] <fenn> think 500W would be good
[17:40:19] <les_w> well just so you don't hear the pwm frequency
[17:40:36] <les_w> easiest way is to make it well above 10 kHz
[17:40:38] <fenn> that ought to be like 20khz anyway
[17:40:49] <les_w> yeah
[17:40:59] <les_w> power dissipation starts going up
[17:41:03] <fenn> right.. i was reading an article that said that you had to fiddle with filters based on output impedance
[17:41:51] <les_w> up to 80 hz I have about 700 watts per channel depending on how you rate it
[17:42:08] <fenn> check this out: http://www.positron.org/projects/basscannon/
[17:42:22] <les_w> understand very very few single drivere can handle over 500 watts for any length of time
[17:42:29] <les_w> looking
[17:42:47] <fenn> kinda reminds me of the SRL pulsejets
[17:43:17] <fenn> ridiculous, based on out-of-phase pipes, and LOUD
[17:43:32] <les_w> wave radio on steroids
[17:44:26] <les_w> I use a mccauley 15 with a qes of about .3 and fs of 28 in a 12 cubic foot box
[17:44:38] <les_w> It does the job. One on each side.
[17:45:15] <les_w> let's see max cont output at 25 hz for the pair is....
[17:45:20] <fenn> just need to find a giant whelk
[17:45:35] <fenn> * fenn just wanted to say "whelk"
[17:46:19] <les_w> about 125 db I meter.
[17:46:32] <les_w> but the boxes are big.
[17:47:11] <les_w> if you are content with say 105 db....the boxes can be pretty small
[17:47:23] <fenn> you are missing the point
[17:47:24] <les_w> with the same LF response.
[17:47:32] <Jacky^> my first sub: http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/ub_simsub.jpeg
[17:47:35] <fenn> the point is to have a BASS CANNON!
[17:47:46] <les_w> haha looking
[17:47:49] <Jacky^> 18 years ago ! was a monster :D
[17:48:00] <Jacky^> simmetric load
[17:48:10] <fenn> i do like the idea of not wasting power radiated into the speaker cabinet
[17:48:42] <les_w> ah...looks like a bandpass box jacky
[17:48:49] <Jacky^> haha :)
[17:49:13] <Jacky^> of couse, it wasnt use any xover :P
[17:49:46] <les_w> fenn, well gain bandwidth product, size, and efficiency are tied together
[17:50:21] <les_w> the resonant pipes are high efficiency very low bandwidth
[17:51:19] <les_w> but yes you can get into the 110 dba/1 watt with a quarter wave pipe
[17:51:34] <Jacky^> :D
[17:52:07] <les_w> mine (fourth order high pass) is enough for me.
[17:52:16] <les_w> IT breaks things.
[17:52:31] <Jacky^> :)
[17:52:33] <les_w> I don't turn it up much though.
[17:53:16] <les_w> I just did a bunch of stuff in the music room.
[17:53:42] <les_w> Must put midrange absorbing on one wall
[17:53:58] <les_w> and am commissioning a mural to be painted on it
[17:54:07] <fenn> weirdo
[17:54:09] <Jymmm> naked women?
[17:54:12] <les_w> yeah!
[17:54:35] <les_w> hi jymm...well we talked about some layouts
[17:54:50] <Jymmm> how big?
[17:54:52] <les_w> '60s themes
[17:55:01] <Jymmm> a HUGE pot leaf?
[17:55:15] <les_w> yeah that sort of thing...
[17:55:19] <fenn> well you got naked women, now you need either thousands of rounds of ammunition or "boose" of some sort, right jymmm?
[17:55:22] <les_w> about 8x20
[17:55:24] <les_w> feet
[17:55:59] <Jymmm> Oh... what about transition thru decades?
[17:56:04] <les_w> hendrix, clapton, pot, paisley, etc
[17:56:18] <les_w> jymmm hmmm good idea...
[17:56:40] <Jacky^> les_w: aleady seen this: http://www.geocities.com/royal_device/customita3.htm
[17:56:45] <Jymmm> music room... so 1800, 1900s 2000, etc
[17:56:46] <les_w> looking
[17:57:54] <les_w> yikes!!!!
[17:58:00] <Jacky^> heh
[17:58:59] <Jacky^> wonder how it pump ..
[17:59:08] <les_w> Well, I just retired some old amps, bought new, and put in some SEAS midrange vertical arrays.
[17:59:09] <Jacky^> 16 woofer
[17:59:16] <les_w> they sound very smooth
[18:00:55] <les_w> I can servo control the low end speaker cones....accelerometer feedback to amps....
[18:01:02] <les_w> but it does not sond right
[18:01:06] <les_w> sound
[18:01:30] <Jacky^> Yuga was working around a nice sub too, if I remeber well
[18:01:56] <les_w> Most music is mixed on speakers having some second and third order harmonic distortion.....
[18:02:13] <les_w> without it there the music often sounds unbalanced
[18:02:46] <les_w> Yes I have been working with yuga on a very high power PWM powered speaker
[18:03:16] <les_w> He wants to make speakers for a living
[18:03:36] <Jacky^> http://www.geocities.com/royal_device/salaGIF.GIF
[18:03:46] <Jacky^> that's the complete plain
[18:04:15] <fenn> good lord why not just use hydraulics and shake the floor mechanically
[18:05:14] <les_w> heh
[18:05:36] <les_w> I have much more in the low end that I can really use I guess
[18:05:45] <les_w> better than not enough I suppose
[18:07:06] <Jacky^> les_w: seen the plain ?
[18:07:12] <les_w> yes!
[18:07:25] <Jacky^> all that to get 1 people heard music ? O_O
[18:07:28] <Jacky^> hehehe
[18:07:31] <les_w> sitting inside horn
[18:07:39] <Jacky^> :)
[18:08:39] <les_w> Well, I got a very good result with the changes lately...midrange is very important
[18:08:54] <les_w> very smooth and lifelike
[18:09:11] <Jacky^> I agrre
[18:09:27] <Jacky^> there the critical frequency side :(
[18:09:54] <les_w> I Still have 16 of the SEAS drivers left....bought a whole carton if you recall
[18:10:13] <les_w> will use that for other stuff
[18:10:55] <les_w> they each have 100w cont voice coils....400w peak.
[18:11:56] <les_w> so they can almost do a hand clap....120 dba.
[18:12:25] <les_w> oh well...hmmm back to hot spindle.....
[18:12:32] <Jacky^> later
[18:12:40] <les_w> if that thing comes on while changing bits....
[18:12:46] <les_w> it would be really bad
[18:13:29] <les_w> I would prefer to remove power from the vfd while tool changing
[18:14:01] <les_w> But the documentation says that often removing power will quicky destroy the drive caps
[18:14:03] <alex_joni> les_w: use a relay on the motor lines
[18:14:48] <les_w> Wanted to alex, but drive docs advise against that too...
[18:15:07] <alex_joni> how about placing a shunt resistor insteadof the motor
[18:15:09] <les_w> if it opened during running for some reason....the drive is fried
[18:15:35] <les_w> resistor might work
[18:15:44] <les_w> would need some inductance too
[18:15:59] <les_w> 4 kva gulp
[18:16:04] <alex_joni> you get the point
[18:16:10] <les_w> yeah
[18:16:30] <les_w> I called some people and most change tools with vfd on
[18:16:43] <les_w> Just seems dangerous to me
[18:16:50] <Jymmm> * Jymmm concurs
[18:17:26] <les_w> oh....made a manual speed dial on panel/ emc dac/parport selector switch too
[18:18:04] <les_w> I think I will mostly use manual
[18:18:18] <Jacky^> les_w: whats the risk of change the tool with vfd on ? shock ?
[18:18:34] <Jacky^> or damge it ?
[18:18:38] <les_w> so I have an on/off and 0-24000 rpm on the panel.
[18:18:51] <Jacky^> mmm
[18:19:24] <les_w> Jacky I think the risk is having a 4 kw spindle turn on with a loose tool or while you have wrenches on it
[18:19:45] <Jacky^> :/
[18:19:49] <les_w> yeah
[18:20:26] <fenn> shoulda got the atc spindle
[18:21:05] <les_w> It was $4000 more...but yeah, your'e right probably
[18:21:22] <les_w> anyway another machine will have one.
[18:21:48] <fenn> i just repeat what other people tell me
[18:22:04] <les_w> what th
[18:22:22] <les_w> covered wagon with two horses trotting down the street
[18:22:38] <les_w> with two giant confederate flags
[18:22:39] <fenn> yea we kicked the amish out of indiana.. guess they ended up in GA
[18:22:42] <les_w> on the wagon
[18:22:44] <les_w> ???
[18:24:48] <les_w> wonder what the occasion is
[18:25:03] <les_w> I'm afraid I'm not much of a confederate
[18:29:59] <chinamill> * chinamill is back
[18:33:32] <chinamill> How is emc2 coming along?
[18:40:30] <alex_joni> nicely
[18:41:22] <les_w> bleh...let's see now....please check out my logic.....
[18:41:44] <Jymmm> les_w "You're KungFu is no good!"
[18:41:49] <les_w> no switches or contacts between drive and motor per vfd manual
[18:41:54] <Jymmm> -'
[18:42:04] <les_w> soft estop disables amps only
[18:42:44] <les_w> hard estop disables amps, shorts servos to braking resistors, and removes power to vfd
[18:43:00] <les_w> power interruption causes hard estop...
[18:43:14] <les_w> as do hard limit switches
[18:43:16] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[18:43:59] <alex_joni> sounds sane to me
[18:44:24] <les_w> vfd must be powered the move servos...but motor does not have to turn
[18:45:17] <les_w> Just going through some simple FMEA for various component failures
[18:46:19] <les_w> glitching the VFD on input remains the worst
[18:46:42] <chinamill> So waht is the status of emc2? Close to release?
[18:46:47] <les_w> glitching VFD off during cutting is second worst
[18:47:10] <alex_joni> chinamill: pretty close
[18:48:09] <les_w> I think 2 wire control to contacts or opto at the vfd is safest
[18:53:10] <les_w> For glitching an off command to the vfd... I can program the logic on it so either off or failure of the device or power sends a fault
[18:53:36] <les_w> than have an override to cut air or jog
[18:53:53] <les_w> then
[18:55:09] <les_w> spindle rotation stopping during a cut would cost thousands of dollars in damage
[18:55:29] <les_w> but you want to do it for jogs and verify
[18:55:39] <les_w> yeah...another switch
[18:56:28] <les_w> I am trying to rewire this so the workers can safely learn to use it
[19:01:36] <chinamill> alex_joni: If I'm not mistaken you where working on a escavator some time ago, how is it coming along?
[19:02:26] <alex_joni> escavator?
[19:02:29] <alex_joni> huh?
[19:03:07] <chinamill> aj: then it must have been someone else here, I do not remember
[19:03:25] <alex_joni> ok then :)
[19:09:36] <les_w> oh that was anonimasu
[19:10:38] <les_w> hmm turned on the news during lunch break....someone went "postal" in california
[19:10:52] <les_w> what is with post office workers?
[19:12:34] <Jymmm> they've gone postal perhapse? lol
[19:12:35] <alex_joni> maybe they don't get enough christmas cards
[19:13:16] <Jymmm> or too many
[19:14:07] <les_w> just cooked some experimental lunch here (low on groceries)
[19:14:19] <les_w> It came out looking like kingon food.
[19:14:38] <les_w> I hate grocery shopping
[19:14:54] <Jymmm> les_w it's still crawling on the plate?
[19:15:32] <les_w> I broke up some angel hair pasta into shot pieces and threw in gravy mix
[19:15:49] <les_w> looks like it could crawl
[19:18:29] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[19:21:01] <les_w> programming some open collector outputs here
[19:21:45] <les_w> ok fault is sent if drive is stopped for any reason including an off command
[19:22:06] <les_w> that function can be overridden by a phisical switch
[19:22:52] <les_w> but additionally an actual drive electrical fault will go to hard estop despite switch position
[19:24:34] <les_w> trying to failsafe any glitch phenomina on logic inputs
[19:26:15] <les_w> Failsafe is turning into more buttons to push I think
[19:28:26] <les_w> Hmmm...is that gonna work? Operator has more to learn, but it's harder to issue commands that cause safety concerns?
[19:30:29] <les_w> kinda wish I had a logic level signal when motion is commanded.
[19:32:37] <les_w> lookin
[19:35:32] <les_w> nope...nothing
[20:14:34] <CIA-17> 03jepler * 10emc2/scripts/realtime.in: Prefer the rtapi.conf next to scripts/realtime so that RIP setups work even when there's an installed version
[20:17:47] <CIA-17> 03jepler * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtai_rtapi.c rtai_ulapi.c): now that the right copy of the rtapi is being loaded, the version check is safe again (but the version is always 0 when $Version$ is not substituted, so it is of limited value)
[20:42:29] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[20:42:29] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[20:46:53] <Jacky^> Jymmm:
[20:47:40] <Jacky^> its a lot of time I would ask you a thing
[20:47:53] <Jacky^> what is Red70sShow ?
[20:48:08] <Jacky^> a TV program ?
[20:48:37] <Jacky^> TV show ?
[20:49:36] <Jacky^> is it ?
[20:49:41] <bill20r3> "that 70's show" has a character named Red.
[20:56:57] <Jacky^> :-)
[21:05:25] <Jymmm> http://www.that70sshow.com/
[21:15:48] <CIA-17> 03cradek * 10emc2/.cvsignore: ignore lib directory (which contains build output)
[21:45:19] <les_w> well, I have had about enough of cnc rewiring logic. This time of day the sun shines in the window and backlights the computer screen anyway. Music room?
[21:45:43] <bill20r3> nap time.
[21:46:03] <les_w> 4:45 pm here
[21:46:16] <les_w> quittin time but no commute
[21:46:20] <les_w> I love it
[21:46:36] <Jymmm> =)
[21:46:38] <les_w> after spending hundreds of thousands of miles commuting
[21:47:24] <les_w> I only commute to the music room.
[21:49:24] <Jymmm> and the liquor store =)
[21:49:35] <Jymmm> or is that on automatic daily dleivery?
[21:55:32] <les_w> haha
[21:56:34] <les_w> I do have a bit of a commute to do though soon. Back and forth to chicago.
[21:56:54] <Jymmm> well shit.. you said you hate grocery shopping... auto delivery just makes senses.
[21:57:03] <Jymmm> safeway.com and all that
[21:57:12] <les_w> They asked me today if I had picked a nice car yet for travelling
[21:57:49] <les_w> I haven't bought one yet.
[21:58:11] <les_w> Guess Lexus GS 300 is it.
[21:58:23] <les_w> Not my favorite
[21:58:31] <les_w> but quiet and reliable
[21:59:54] <les_w> Sadly AUDI, MB, BMW have scared me off due to reliability horror stories.
[22:00:14] <les_w> Will keep the 325i though for just around town though.
[22:00:45] <k4ts> hello
[22:00:52] <les_w> hi k4ts
[22:01:50] <k4ts> how are you?
[22:01:55] <k4ts> les_w:
[22:02:13] <les_w> I am fine...just finishing my work day
[22:02:17] <les_w> and you?
[22:02:56] <k4ts> well
[22:03:02] <les_w> good!
[22:04:31] <k4ts> I look document for hospital
[22:04:39] <k4ts> tomorrow
[22:05:04] <les_w> from car accident?
[22:06:36] <k4ts> yes
[22:06:52] <les_w> jacky showed me a picture
[22:07:01] <k4ts> no car I'm fall
[22:07:26] <k4ts> sister of Jacky^
[22:07:32] <k4ts> accident for car!
[22:07:48] <les_w> Is jacky's sister ok?
[22:07:54] <k4ts> yes
[22:07:58] <les_w> good
[22:08:06] <les_w> but not car...
[22:08:13] <k4ts> no
[22:08:49] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/incidente/index.html
[22:08:59] <les_w> looking
[22:09:20] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ working.. :D
[22:09:50] <les_w> we have a name for that here...it's called "totaled"
[22:10:05] <les_w> it means the car is finished
[22:10:08] <les_w> no repair
[22:10:20] <Jacky^> sure..
[22:10:30] <Jacky^> there's nothing to repair
[22:10:56] <les_w> what was that? FIAT? aLPHA?
[22:11:02] <Jacky^> just to thanks some saint for saved they
[22:11:05] <les_w> yes
[22:11:16] <Jacky^> was a ford station wagon
[22:11:20] <les_w> ah
[22:11:36] <les_w> I have a ford truck.
[22:12:01] <Jacky^> if you recall we talked abiut this crash
[22:12:06] <les_w> yes
[22:12:14] <Jacky^> no airbags are open ..
[22:12:17] <les_w> So now your sister is fine?
[22:12:43] <Jacky^> modern cars have 6 airbags
[22:12:57] <Jacky^> les_w: yeah, my sister is ok now
[22:13:07] <les_w> yes I guess the one I will buy has that
[22:13:12] <Jacky^> they have been very lucky
[22:13:22] <les_w> I think my truck and car now have only one
[22:14:06] <les_w> New cars have side airbags I guess
[22:14:18] <Jacky^> good
[22:14:39] <Jacky^> abs and airbags can save the life
[22:15:13] <les_w> If cars had a steel tubing space frame roll cage like the cnc machines we design....
[22:15:24] <les_w> less would get hurt in car crashes
[22:16:25] <les_w> oh the logger is on...we have to talk about emc
[22:16:27] <les_w> uh
[22:16:31] <les_w> I like emc.
[22:16:38] <Jacky^> hehe
[22:16:42] <les_w> haha
[22:16:43] <Jacky^> ;)
[22:18:50] <les_w> jacky, k4ts, I will go to the music room now
[22:18:56] <les_w> have a nice evening
[22:19:00] <Jacky^> ok, later
[22:19:06] <Jacky^> you too ;)
[22:19:13] <k4ts> bye les_w
[22:21:36] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as JymmmAFK
[22:53:05] <JymmmAFK> JymmmAFK is now known as Jymmm
[22:59:05] <k4ts> night
[23:04:52] <robin_sz> meep?
[23:59:25] <jepler> hi robin_sz
[23:59:30] <jepler> slow day
[23:59:39] <bill20r3> Zzzz