#emc | Logs for 2006-01-26

[01:55:42] <robin_z> meep?
[02:30:07] <jepler> question. emc2. Is there an example of a '1 bit per winding' setup on the parallel port?
[02:30:45] <jepler> I only see dir and step in stepgen when I 'halcmd show'.
[02:31:31] <jepler> I need to have outputs like '1000' '1100' '0100' 0110' etc
[02:33:46] <cradek> jepler: I'm sure it's in there (without looking at the source)
[02:33:58] <cradek> jepler: something about phase drive
[02:34:12] <cradek> I remember seeing all the tables for the different stepping sequences
[02:34:33] <jepler> src/hal/components/freqgen.c
[02:34:54] <jepler> /* lookup tables for stepping types 2 and higher */
[02:35:09] <cradek> yeah that
[02:35:25] <cradek> there are a few to choose from
[02:37:25] <jepler> How do I control the arguments to 'insmod'?
[02:37:34] <cradek> in the hal file
[02:37:37] <cradek> look at the parallel port one
[02:38:28] <cradek> core_stepper.hal:loadrt stepgen step_type=0,0,0
[02:38:59] <jepler> so I want to .. copy core_stepper.hal and edit it?
[02:39:18] <cradek> sure, I guess
[02:39:23] <cradek> copy it into your config dir
[02:39:27] <cradek> change your ini to point to it
[02:39:31] <rayh> Hal_Introduction.pdf has sets of output timing stuff.
[02:39:59] <rayh> somewhere around page 38-46
[02:40:33] <jepler> looks like type 9, from stepgen.c's comments about the tables
[02:41:39] <CIA-14> 03cradek * 10emc2/ (6 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
[02:41:40] <CIA-14> Fix up make install target, debian build, make deb target, etc.
[02:41:40] <CIA-14> To use it, I recommend:
[02:41:40] <CIA-14> ./configure --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc && make deb
[02:41:40] <CIA-14> The default configure settings will put a lot of things in /usr/local,
[02:41:40] <CIA-14> which I think is somewhat nonstandard for a deb. I can't decide whether
[02:41:42] <CIA-14> this flexibility (and therefore the requirement that the deb creator
[02:45:38] <CIA-14> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: Started on watch and other mode stuff.
[02:59:39] <jepler> haven't hooked up the hardware yet, but I have some plausible looking signals in halscope...
[02:59:56] <cradek> cool
[03:00:17] <cradek> does the path follow the program?
[03:00:33] <jepler> I dunno .. actually it's running tkemc as the front end
[03:00:41] <jepler> and I've just been doing 'g0's
[03:01:32] <jepler> oh good -- halscope seems to remember those things I painfully configured last run
[03:01:53] <cradek> yeah, it's good that way
[03:12:46] <SWPadnos> just don't load it if the signals aren't present, or it'll lose (parts of) that painfully crafted config
[03:14:02] <jepler> I can't find the driver board or my parallel cable
[03:14:04] <jepler> * jepler keeps looking
[03:14:20] <cradek> I sure know how that feels
[03:14:27] <cradek> I was looking for a particular video cable tonight
[03:14:31] <SWPadnos> is it plugged in? ;)
[03:18:05] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, but thanks for asking
[03:18:23] <SWPadnos> heh - always the first tech support question
[03:18:38] <SWPadnos> I feel your pain though - I actually managed to lose an MSC catalog in my office
[03:23:55] <jepler> well, I found a parallel cable, the wrong driver board, and the wrong motors .. but at least I should be able to spin 'em
[03:24:21] <jepler> but the windings must be in a different order than I thought
[03:27:05] <cradek> can you change that in the halfile?
[03:27:07] <jepler> yay, with a little tweak to the .hal file the motors are spinning right
[03:27:22] <cradek> slick
[03:27:39] <jepler> cradek: yes, connecting the winding signals to different parport pins is easy .. even I could figure it out
[03:29:47] <jepler> iirc, the etch-a-sketch was 68 half-steps per inch. With LINEAR_UNITS = 0.039... and INPUT_SCALE = 4000, this lead to weird behavior under emc1
[03:30:52] <jepler> so do I want to try a value like .0032... (feet?) and INPUT_SCALE=816?
[03:31:01] <cradek> nope
[03:31:08] <jepler> nope?
[03:31:12] <cradek> the interpreter won't work with anything but the standard few values
[03:31:16] <jepler> oh heck
[03:31:27] <jepler> er, the first time I think I meant INPUT_SCALE = 68
[03:31:44] <jepler> so what do I do?
[03:31:49] <cradek> allowing an arbitrary user unit in the config is strange, because we expect it to be one of about three values and do strange things otherwise.
[03:32:05] <jepler> but with a small INPUT_SCALE things go to hell
[03:32:11] <cradek> have you verified that it works incorrectly?
[03:32:12] <jepler> or at least they did in emc1
[03:32:35] <cradek> you could configure it the way you think is right, then find the bug if there is one...
[03:33:08] <jepler> ooh. axis bug
[03:33:21] <jepler> warnings.append(_("Program exceeds machine maximum on axis %s") % axisnames[i])
[03:37:44] <cradek> I don't spot it
[03:37:51] <cradek> what's wrong with it?
[03:38:44] <jepler> the loop above goes to 3 all the time
[03:39:05] <jepler> I'm getting joint following errors
[03:39:39] <cradek> I wonder if you're getting a wild path
[03:40:06] <jepler> the backplot looks sane, but I think that's the commanded position, not actual?
[03:40:15] <jepler> now I'm getting 'can't do that (EMC_TASK_PLAN_RUN) in manual mode'
[03:40:29] <cradek> that's the bug I got too
[03:40:35] <jepler> you said there was a fix or workaround?
[03:41:37] <cradek> patch in /query
[03:41:50] <jepler> found it in the bug report too
[03:41:51] <jepler> buried in prose
[03:41:55] <jepler> how wrong do you think the fix is?
[03:42:02] <cradek> with an obsolete line number
[03:42:08] <cradek> no idea
[03:42:16] <cradek> jmk would know
[03:42:46] <cradek> it "seems to work"
[03:42:56] <cradek> but obviously the bug is somewhere else
[03:43:38] <jepler> the bug is not new
[03:43:46] <jepler> I don't remember you mentioning it before, though.
[03:43:49] <cradek> it's new to me
[03:44:00] <cradek> rtai or my faster machine or something must trigger it
[03:44:14] <cradek> I've never used rtai before a few days ago
[03:45:45] <jepler> something's really wrong now
[03:46:00] <jepler> but I'd done an 'update' earlier and not rebuilt, so who knows if it was the change I just made, or something else from earlier
[03:46:37] <jepler> axis comes up without estop pressed, and F1, F2 does nothing
[03:46:43] <jepler> alt-f4 takes a few seconds to do anything
[03:46:46] <jepler> no errors on the terminal
[03:46:58] <cradek> try make clean (cough cough)
[03:49:26] <jepler> I guess if each step is 1/68, then MIN_FERROR had better be bigger than 1/68
[03:49:42] <cradek> that's sure true
[03:51:50] <jepler> maybe it's right
[03:52:08] <jepler> but I was only going 12 ips, not 120ips
[03:52:27] <cradek> ipm?
[03:52:31] <jepler> er yes
[03:52:31] <jepler> ipm
[03:52:37] <jepler> well, I commanded f12
[03:52:45] <jepler> I have no idea what these numbers in the .ini mean
[03:53:02] <jepler> I changed MIN_FERROR = .05 (approx. 4 steps)
[03:53:14] <jepler> now if I think I can do 120ipm how do I set my MAX_VELOCITY ?
[03:53:25] <cradek> 2
[03:53:31] <cradek> user units per sec
[03:54:04] <jepler> the same in in [TRAJ] and [AXIS_i]
[03:54:12] <cradek> sure
[03:54:28] <jepler> following error again
[03:54:39] <cradek> axis or joint?
[03:54:44] <jepler> joint 0
[03:54:49] <jepler> doing a move along x
[03:54:55] <cradek> did you set headroom for stepgen?
[03:55:53] <cradek> MAX_VELOCITY = 1.2
[03:55:56] <jepler> for accel? No. I didn't change any of the accel numbers from what was in the config I started with
[03:55:57] <cradek> STEPGEN_MAXVEL = 1.4
[03:56:10] <jepler> oh
[03:56:13] <jepler> forget it
[03:56:18] <cradek> be sure the STEPGENs are higher
[03:56:27] <cradek> for vel and accel both
[03:56:48] <jepler> I got a following error again, but after running part of the program at a very high speed
[03:57:02] <jepler> I used MAX_VELOCITY = 2, STEPGEN_MAXVEL=2.2
[03:57:23] <cradek> that seems good enough
[03:57:26] <cradek> same with accel?
[03:57:35] <cradek> your accel should probably be MUCH higher than the default
[03:57:54] <cradek> well it's 20 by default I guess
[03:57:56] <cradek> maybe that's fine
[03:57:56] <jepler> It gets the following error the first time the velocity goes from +max to -max on an axis
[03:58:06] <cradek> on a jog?
[03:58:09] <jepler> no, on a program
[03:58:11] <jepler> jogs are painfully slow
[03:58:40] <cradek> maybe you should open up your STEPGEN and FERROR settings and see what it does
[03:58:44] <cradek> you may be getting strange paths
[04:00:02] <jepler> I made a big increase in STEPGEN_MAXACCEL from 21 to 41
[04:00:11] <jepler> now I don't get following errors
[04:00:38] <jepler> the backplot looks good, except that all the corners are quite rounded ..
[04:02:35] <jepler> I know that with emc1, the axis backplot showed things all screwed up
[04:02:46] <jepler> now the backplot looks quite correct
[04:02:55] <jepler> I wish I had the right setup to actually connect this to the etch-a-sketch
[04:04:04] <jepler> when I do, the next problem will be the backlash
[04:07:08] <jepler> come to think of it, I haven't seen the etch-a-sketch either!
[04:07:21] <jepler> goodnight guys ... it's exciting to finally run emc2!
[04:16:19] <cradek> slick
[04:16:28] <cradek> I'm glad to hear it works better than emc1!
[04:23:18] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-etch-gasket.png
[04:23:21] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/axis-etch-gasket2.png
[04:26:59] <SWPadnos> what feedrate are you running that at?
[04:30:20] <jepler> SWPadnos: 120 inches / minute
[04:30:25] <jepler> SWPadnos: accel 20
[04:30:39] <SWPadnos> OK. and what's the TASK_CYCLE time?
[04:31:13] <jepler> most things are unchanged from the default .. I copied the stepper config directory to start with
[04:31:35] <SWPadnos> does AXIS read the CYCLE_TIME from the ini?
[04:31:49] <SWPadnos> (in the DISPLAY section)
[04:31:54] <jepler> I found the etch-a-sketch and the right driver board .. it works, looks like my custom software did before I added backlash compensation.
[04:31:57] <jepler> SWPadnos: no, it ignores it.
[04:32:05] <cradek> jepler: cool!!
[04:32:14] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:32:39] <SWPadnos> what's the update rate for axis?
[04:32:41] <jepler> SWPadnos: sorry, I don't mean to be evasive about the values ... wireless doesn't work for me with the realtime kernel, so I'm on a different computer right now.
[04:32:45] <jepler> if the value is important, I can go look
[04:32:53] <SWPadnos> no problem
[04:33:09] <SWPadnos> I have the default stepper_inch up right now, so I can look for myself
[04:33:28] <jepler> looks like 20ms
[04:33:30] <jepler> in axis
[04:33:35] <SWPadnos> that's prety fast
[04:33:38] <SWPadnos> pretty
[04:33:56] <cradek> I'm pleasantly surprised that AXIS nicely handles a 2-axis machine
[04:34:13] <cradek> I haven't seen it running that way before
[04:34:38] <cradek> jepler: AXIS on my accelerated nvidia card looks just great
[04:34:39] <SWPadnos> well - those tiny triangles are 5/32 inch across, so at 120 IPM it's only 78 ms per edge
[04:35:24] <jepler> cradek: tried turning on __GL_FSAA_MODE?
[04:35:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:35:35] <cradek> nope
[04:35:39] <cradek> not until ... now
[04:35:53] <SWPadnos> if only I could run emc on a *real* meachine
[04:35:55] <cradek> what do I set it to?
[04:36:03] <SWPadnos> 16x, of course
[04:36:21] <jepler> cradek: Try a small integer -- 1, 2, 3
[04:36:23] <SWPadnos> (what that's called in GL, I have no idea)
[04:36:31] <jepler> the valid numbers and their meaning differ from card to card
[04:36:55] <jepler> SWPadnos: The screenshot wasn't really intended to question emc2's blending .. I think it's probably doing a fine job
[04:37:07] <jepler> SWPadnos: if you interpreted it that way, it wasn't my intent.
[04:37:18] <SWPadnos> no problem - I'm just curious about the rounding
[04:37:27] <SWPadnos> it's the kind of question that a new user would ask
[04:37:35] <cradek> now it looks fuzzy
[04:37:48] <jepler> cradek: that's what fsaa is supposed to do...
[04:38:13] <SWPadnos> if you were using some texture for the lines, it might look better
[04:38:24] <SWPadnos> but probably not ;)
[04:38:40] <jepler> texture for the lines?? What are you smoking?
[04:38:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:38:59] <SWPadnos> make the lines like the 3d_pipes screensaver
[04:39:11] <cradek> jepler: the small integers all make it look differently-crappy
[04:39:23] <jepler> cradek: forget I said anything
[04:39:36] <cradek> can I forget SWP said anything too?
[04:39:40] <jepler> cradek: I found that for day-job-application it was a general improvement, but only after tweaking xgamma too
[04:39:41] <SWPadnos> feel free
[04:40:07] <SWPadnos> it's nice for rendered scenes, but not for CAD / technical data
[04:40:17] <jepler> SWPadnos: despite using opengl, axis is intended to work OK on systems without massive heat-producing 3d accelerators...
[04:40:28] <cradek> and it does
[04:40:32] <SWPadnos> I have a massive heat generator in my big rig
[04:40:46] <SWPadnos> and I usually use that via remote X
[04:41:13] <SWPadnos> glxgears is nice and quick, but not as fast as on the big machine "natively"
[04:42:07] <jepler> goodnight .. for real this time
[04:42:12] <cradek> chris@buster2:~$ glxgears -printfps
[04:42:12] <cradek> 13766 frames in 5.0 seconds = 2753.168 FPS
[04:42:22] <SWPadnos_> correction - it's slow as hell on the emc machine
[04:42:26] <SWPadnos_> and fast on the big machine
[04:42:42] <SWPadnos_> 125 frames in 5.0 seconds = 25.000 FPS
[04:42:44] <SWPadnos_> vs
[04:43:02] <SWPadnos_> 58483 frames in 5.0 seconds = 11696.417 FPS
[04:43:14] <cradek> it's incredible what you can get with a $40 video card nowadays
[04:43:20] <SWPadnos_> slight difference there
[04:43:24] <SWPadnos_> yes
[04:43:38] <SWPadnos_> if only I could use a video card with the embedded LCD on the emc machine :(
[04:44:04] <cradek> ahh
[04:44:09] <cradek> is it a laptop?
[04:44:10] <SWPadnos_> I may end up using a mini-ITX unit instead, though I'd prefer the touchscreen
[04:44:28] <SWPadnos_> that I already have
[04:44:33] <cradek> do you use AXIS on a touchscreen?
[04:44:47] <SWPadnos> not yet, but I'll give it a try sometime soon
[04:44:50] <SWPadnos> 800x600, too
[04:44:54] <cradek> I think it should work
[04:44:58] <cradek> it fits nicely on 800x600
[04:45:05] <SWPadnos> should - it's just a mouse, but left button only
[04:45:17] <SWPadnos> and no dragging, so all the perspective stuff won't work
[04:45:24] <SWPadnos> (same with the missing middle button)
[04:45:28] <cradek> you can switch between the preset views with the keyboard
[04:45:34] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:45:48] <SWPadnos> there will be a mouse or trackball as well, so that shouldn't be an issue
[04:45:48] <cradek> hmm, no dragging... ouch
[04:45:51] <SWPadnos> yep
[04:45:52] <cradek> ah
[04:45:58] <SWPadnos> it may work, but you get a click first, I think
[04:46:10] <cradek> simple matter of programming
[04:46:25] <SWPadnos> some drivers allow a tap-drag equence
[09:40:14] <Jacky^> morning
[09:52:50] <fenn> mornin
[09:53:09] <Jacky^> hi fenn
[11:51:13] <fenn> Jacky^: ov00975.mpg <- why do i have this on my computer??
[11:51:29] <fenn> er, mov00975.mpg
[11:51:48] <alex_joni> fenn: because you watch too much pr0n
[11:51:55] <Jacky^> :D
[11:52:31] <fenn> pr0n.. you wanna se pr0n huh
[11:52:33] <fenn> http://www.theebelinggroup.com/site/videos/nakd/nakd_box.mov
[11:54:37] <fenn> for cardboard lovers
[11:56:58] <Jacky^> nice video
[11:59:23] <fenn> arg i ought to be waking up now and i'm not even tired
[12:01:01] <Jacky^> im tryng to get a bit of order in my documents, medical, bank, car, taxes ..
[12:01:13] <Jacky^> damn papers, it will take to me all day
[12:01:29] <Jacky^> the
[12:02:49] <Jacky^> I hate papers
[12:03:44] <Jacky^> and our minister is sending a book to all families to explain what digital revolution is !
[12:03:51] <Jacky^> damn it O_O
[12:04:25] <fenn> digital revolution, like electronic piracy?
[12:04:28] <fenn> ;)
[12:04:44] <Jacky^> http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2006/01/stanca_express.html#comments
[12:04:49] <Jacky^> read that ..
[12:04:49] <fenn> i read it
[12:04:56] <Jacky^> damn ..
[12:04:59] <Jacky^> :/
[12:05:12] <fenn> beppe's "you must write your full legal name" thing's kinda weird
[12:05:29] <fenn> what's the point of writing your real name to a dissident website?
[12:05:30] <Jacky^> Ive something like 3000 docs here ..
[12:05:49] <Jacky^> Beppe is his name
[12:06:35] <Jacky^> I have to split these docs
[12:06:51] <Jacky^> I will do a small mountain of paper
[12:06:58] <Jacky^> then burn it !
[12:07:29] <Jacky^> wonder how small it will be
[12:07:33] <Jacky^> O_O
[12:08:01] <fenn> beppe's comment field says next to it "We remind you that anonymous messages (without real first name and surname) will be cancelled."
[12:08:13] <Jacky^> oh yes..
[12:08:22] <Jacky^> but many peoples use nicks
[12:08:32] <Jacky^> its not so important
[12:08:39] <Jacky^> I always used my real name
[12:08:57] <Jacky^> it would be a trasparent policy of beppe grillo
[12:09:15] <Jacky^> he like to talk by real name
[12:09:21] <fenn> sometimes when i sign petitions i feel like i'm adding my name to a death list
[12:09:28] <Jacky^> of course it isnt applicable at all
[12:11:06] <Jacky^> ahah I found some signature on the petition against software patences by bill g.
[12:11:08] <Jacky^> lol
[12:11:17] <fenn> want to see something that will make you sick and angry?
[12:11:32] <Jacky^> lets see..
[12:13:47] <fenn> so far nobody's taken me up on my offer
[12:14:02] <Jacky^> :)
[12:15:40] <fenn> uf.. i think the chocolate just wore off.. g'night
[12:16:09] <Jacky^> im going for the lunch
[12:16:13] <Jacky^> bye :)
[12:16:21] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[13:26:35] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[13:32:53] <Jacky^> 5% [46 libx11-dev 407036/1394kB 29%] [29 acroread 2393600/19,9MB 12%] 491kB/s 24m4s
[13:33:11] <Jacky^> seems a good speed :D
[13:36:23] <Jacky^> 700 mb of updates after 4 weeks .. damn unstable :P
[13:36:55] <Jacky^> evils not developers
[13:38:53] <Jacky^> wonder how a user can mantain his distro updated without a fast dsl
[13:41:47] <Jacky^> who is actually maintaining BDI ?
[13:41:53] <rayh> The only way is to use stable.
[13:42:07] <Jacky^> rayh: yeah, testing is pretty nice too
[13:42:18] <rayh> maintaining BDI is Paul_c
[13:42:33] <Jacky^> irts a lot of time i dont see him around
[13:42:38] <Jacky^> its*
[13:42:40] <rayh> I built a EMC using Knoppix a while back. That is testing
[13:42:56] <rayh> I could not keep up with my dialup.
[13:44:05] <Jacky^> Im planning to build a Live CD distro for Roboitalia community
[13:45:01] <Jacky^> Id like to use a RT kernel, such BDI to drive a cnc, and a lot of tools for robotics use
[13:45:21] <rayh> Sure.
[13:45:32] <Jacky^> rayh: im member of this community http://www.roboitalia.com/
[13:45:43] <rayh> That is what the vehicle people at NIST do.
[13:46:39] <Jacky^> Roboitalia have about 3,376 members now
[13:47:03] <rayh> Neet.
[13:47:08] <Jacky^> yeah
[13:47:52] <Jacky^> many of these members don't know nothing about Linux, Emc, ..
[13:48:18] <Jacky^> someone ask for a software to program microcontrollers in Linux
[13:48:45] <Jacky^> that why im thinking that a live cd (in italian) could be useful for the community
[13:49:17] <Jacky^> including some EMC translated doc
[13:49:43] <rayh> You bet it will be a good thing.
[13:49:44] <Jacky^> BDI shoud be a good point to start
[13:50:12] <Jacky^> I also look with a great interest to the Puppy distro
[13:50:45] <Jacky^> I need to get more help and info about Rights terms too
[13:53:29] <Jacky^> we are actually suffering a lot the chinese competition
[13:54:24] <rayh> Tell me about competition.
[13:55:02] <Jacky^> I think they take the advantage of read other language, english, italian
[13:55:14] <Jacky^> where we don't know a word of chinese
[13:55:16] <Jacky^> :/
[13:55:34] <Jacky^> they are very strong
[13:55:49] <rayh> Sure. They catch on quick about competition.
[13:56:05] <Jacky^> too low cost too
[13:56:21] <Jacky^> especuially in countries like korea taiwain
[13:56:27] <Jacky^> taiwan*
[13:56:45] <rayh> Yep. And their quality is getting much better than it used to be.
[14:01:11] <Jacky^> they are going up in economy too, yesterday I heard china taked the 5 place to the french
[14:01:54] <Jacky^> by this step, they will dominate the world soon
[14:02:32] <Jacky^> china get 10 % more in economy in the latest year
[14:16:42] <jepler> Jacky^: ubuntu (and maybe debian) have a complete set of development packages for avr available (gcc and software to program the chips with inexpensive parallel-port devices)
[14:17:23] <jepler> Jacky^: as well as 'sdcc', a C compiler for a number of other devices, including PIC. I haven't used sdcc
[14:23:48] <jepler> Jacky^: simulator packages .. 'gpsim' and 'nitpic' (pic), 'simulavr', 'sdcc-ucsim' (others)
[14:23:58] <jepler> not sure about packages to program anything other than avr, though
[14:26:03] <Jacky^> jepler: I had to reboot, but I read .. ty
[14:26:29] <jepler> here's something called 'openwince-jtag'
[14:26:44] <jepler> the weak point may be the lack of a nice IDE, which many users want. I don't miss it.
[14:26:54] <Jacky^> good
[14:28:53] <jepler> which microcontroller are the roboitalia people most interested in? My experience is limited to avr.
[14:29:53] <Jacky^> I think avr should be ok for must case
[14:30:19] <Jacky^> I got some good suggestion by LawrenceG too
[14:30:22] <jepler> avr is nice .. in-circuit programming, hardware UART, analog comparator, PWM, external interrupts, and analog comparator on the chip I usually use (at90s2313)
[14:30:39] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[14:31:32] <Jacky^> some newbie people is starting using old microcontrollers 16F and other too
[14:32:24] <Jacky^> Id like to find the way to offer a complete solution for all
[14:32:39] <Jacky^> may using different apps too, its not a problem
[14:32:55] <Jacky^> advanced users will use avr
[14:34:28] <Jacky^> im not familiar with microcontrollers, just want to find a good software answer for theyr needs
[14:35:26] <Jacky^> of course, lots of user are using windows do p�rogram theyr chip
[14:35:46] <Jacky^> Id like to find a good Linux alternative
[14:35:50] <jepler> I think that "winavr" is just avr-gcc plus a graphical front end
[14:36:35] <Jacky^> it should be enough for must case
[14:37:55] <Jacky^> now tryng to get the community out of the "shell"
[14:38:41] <Jacky^> starting some wikis and introducing the concept of Free
[14:39:20] <Jacky^> its hard.. many peoples are closed around theyr ideas, but im tryng
[14:39:50] <jepler> Jacky^: "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink"
[14:39:55] <Jacky^> so, I thinked I live cd could be the best way
[14:40:17] <jepler> I'll be back in a few hours.
[14:40:26] <Jacky^> ok, ty
[15:20:15] <k4ts> hello
[17:29:28] <CIA-14> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/emc2icon.png:
[17:29:29] <CIA-14> added Icon for emc2,
[17:29:29] <CIA-14> thanks to fenn for drawing the little fellow
[17:34:12] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as JymmmAFK
[17:52:31] <les_w> I filed an internet order with Grainger...and they said that they could not identify me as a business and to send a copy of a business liscense
[17:52:43] <les_w> I can do that....but why?
[17:53:10] <les_w> They are not "wholesale"....their prices are retail.
[17:54:26] <les_w> Rather than fax the license copy I have a mind to say "fine...i'll go to MSC."
[17:54:30] <les_w> grr!!
[17:56:13] <Jacky^> hi les_w
[17:56:17] <Jacky^> :)
[17:56:37] <Jacky^> licenses are a bad beast
[17:59:35] <les_w> Well I do have a business license of course
[18:00:43] <Jacky^> I know
[18:01:26] <les_w> If they don't care to hunt it up, fine. I spend $20,000+ on industrial supllies a year. I think I don't want to give money to untrusting companies.
[18:01:36] <les_w> Their prices are poor anyway.
[18:02:13] <les_w> And their lead times are long.
[18:02:14] <JymmmAFK> les_w: They'll accept a business card
[18:02:21] <JymmmAFK> JymmmAFK is now known as Jymmm
[18:03:15] <les_w> Yeah, I can email the documentation they want. But why should I ?
[18:03:31] <Jymmm> les_w: The acnt is good for walk-in too
[18:03:39] <les_w> They back ordered my stuff anyway.
[18:04:23] <Jymmm> les_w I know your pissed, but it's not a bad thign to have if you ever have to CYA
[18:05:25] <les_w> I see no advantage.
[18:05:26] <Jymmm> like that stupid one little part that costs $2 and they have, but nobody else carrys
[18:05:34] <Jymmm> and you need ti within 2 hours
[18:06:03] <les_w> I was just buying some contactors. I have to mail order everything.
[18:06:17] <Jymmm> But, if no grainer in your area, then it doesn't matter.
[18:06:27] <les_w> right
[18:06:40] <les_w> nearest grainger store is over 100 miles
[18:06:41] <Jymmm> there are 4 of em within 15 miles
[18:06:46] <Jymmm> of me
[18:07:27] <les_w> They used to have more electrical items than others
[18:07:36] <les_w> but not so much anymore.
[18:08:07] <Jymmm> they used to be the only thing in town (and McMaster), then came the internet
[18:08:16] <les_w> yes
[18:08:27] <les_w> that is sure not the case anymore.
[18:09:08] <Jymmm> Yeah, I have lots of catalogs right now... no less than 4oopgs each
[18:09:15] <Jymmm> 400 pgs
[18:09:49] <les_w> I often used them for electrical (already have an account!!!) but only if I had to because their prices are so high
[18:10:05] <Jymmm> Yeah, what about MSC Direct?
[18:10:31] <les_w> I gave MSC at least $10,000 last year
[18:10:45] <les_w> I get the big books
[18:10:47] <Jymmm> What, you trying to spread the wealth around? lol
[18:11:42] <les_w> MSC did not have a particular fuse I needed this time...so I thought I would use grainger.
[18:11:55] <Jymmm> les_w If so, order the Insult 4000 from me and I'll toss in a free Ass Kick'n for no charge!
[18:12:03] <les_w> Perhaps a mixup....I ordered from grainger last year...
[18:12:31] <Jymmm> wait... if you ordered last year, you should have an acnt then
[18:12:37] <les_w> yeah
[18:12:42] <les_w> I do
[18:13:31] <les_w> hey I'll waste some time and call them....
[18:13:41] <les_w> and possibly kick their ass.
[18:14:06] <Jymmm> heh, wont' do much good.
[18:14:12] <rayh> les_w: I have an answer some of your electrical components. Automationdirect.com
[18:14:34] <les_w> it'll do me good to tell them to FO
[18:14:46] <les_w> thanks ray yes I buy from them too
[18:15:06] <rayh> Good service if they have the parts you need.
[18:15:17] <les_w> right
[18:15:25] <rayh> Just added a line of servo systems.
[18:15:53] <les_w> Grainger used to be the place that had the odd electrical items
[18:16:19] <les_w> in this case class T fuses and holders
[18:17:16] <les_w> those are current limiting 200kAIC fast blow devices
[18:17:37] <les_w> calling now
[18:25:45] <les_w> Well, ok. They were pretty nice. They said my account was purged due to inactivity. If I just shoot them license photo on email they will re establish.
[18:25:57] <les_w> I didn't cuss.
[18:26:11] <les_w> Lady sounded like some grandma.
[18:27:44] <Jymmm> "Well reinstate it" is what I would have said
[18:28:03] <Jymmm> I wonder if logging into the website coutns for activity?
[18:30:44] <les_w> Ican say this...making your customers do extra work is not a good business plan.
[18:31:03] <SWPadnos> I like it - reduces my workload
[18:31:06] <les_w> "give us money and we will create extra makework for you"
[18:31:24] <SWPadnos> of course, more work = more income, so maybe it's a bad plan
[18:34:15] <les_w> where's that usb cable....
[18:34:56] <Jymmm> les_w over there
[18:35:04] <SWPadnos> is it plugged in?
[18:35:08] <les_w> oh...yeah.
[18:50:15] <les_w> ok sent. What did I waste...an hour?
[18:50:51] <les_w> Too bad I am incapable of cussing at grandmas.
[18:50:52] <SWPadnos> to be fair, much of that hour was spent bitching about it ;)
[18:51:00] <les_w> hahaha
[18:51:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:58:23] <Sed_> Well I think we are getting a Haas VF3 with 4th axis
[18:58:45] <les_w> Hi sed. Nice machine!
[18:59:11] <Sed_> that and a Bridgport mill, and Colchetster/Clausing Lathe
[18:59:21] <Sed_> and some huge band saw
[18:59:30] <les_w> All for you....
[18:59:32] <les_w> gosh
[18:59:55] <les_w> Promise to be a good boy all year?
[19:00:09] <Sed_> heh
[19:00:58] <Sed_> Not sure why we need the bandsaw when all we have is a piss ass little drop saw
[19:01:43] <Sed_> what does everyone use for cutting up sheets of aluminum? I use a skill saw...
[19:02:18] <bill20r3> I swear a lot.
[19:02:19] <cradek> tin snips?
[19:02:25] <bill20r3> until it feels so bad it cuts itself.
[19:02:34] <Sed_> heh
[19:02:36] <bill20r3> that, and snips.
[19:02:53] <cradek> I have heard but have NOT tried: put the blade in the table saw backwards and cut with the back of the teeth
[19:02:57] <Sed_> some big snips needed for half inch..
[19:03:10] <cradek> ha, that's plate, not sheet
[19:03:13] <bill20r3> ouch.
[19:03:27] <cradek> that's not for thick stuff I'm sure.
[19:03:35] <Sed_> we get them in 4x12
[19:03:52] <les_w> I do have a deficiency cutting stuff too thin for the bandsaw and too thick for my tiny shear
[19:04:37] <les_w> For machine panels (.062) last time I used abrasive blades and skillsaw on 4x8 sheets
[19:05:04] <cradek> how about an end mill?
[19:05:18] <les_w> might have worked
[19:05:23] <Sed_> goggles. face sheield, ear protection and a skill saaw.. I can cut 2" plate carfuly
[19:05:28] <les_w> in a router
[19:05:33] <cradek> yeah
[19:05:35] <cradek> worth a try
[19:05:43] <les_w> I do have router "sheet metal" bits
[19:05:48] <les_w> this was steel though
[19:06:02] <cradek> Sed_: torch?
[19:07:51] <les_w> gues sed doesn't like torches?
[19:07:53] <les_w> haha
[19:08:00] <les_w> well back to the shop.
[19:08:24] <Sed_> dam isp
[19:09:30] <Sed_> I figure once I cut the sheets small enough to go on the band saw with the skill saw I might as well just cut them with the skill saw..
[19:09:44] <Sed_> plate rather
[19:10:47] <Sed_> but a big band saw with a blade welder is nice to have.. I will sure never jusify getting one in the future..
[19:14:59] <SWPadnos> what size pieces do you cut the plate into?
[19:19:02] <Sed_> Just pieces small enough to fit on the mill for machining
[19:19:28] <SWPadnos> ok. it may be better to just buy smaller plates in the first place
[19:19:46] <SWPadnos> the cost shouldn't be much more, and you save the cost of a big-ass bandsaw
[19:19:56] <Sed_> Yea, but we buy large plates because we never know what we are going to build
[19:19:59] <SWPadnos> though it is fun having a big bandsaw
[19:20:07] <SWPadnos> ah - that makes sense then
[19:20:37] <SWPadnos> those are pretty heavy plates
[19:21:05] <SWPadnos> like 1500 pounds, right?
[19:22:19] <Sed_> prety heavy, we order 4x8 when we get 1/2 inch plate
[19:22:34] <SWPadnos> that's tiny by comparison
[19:22:47] <SWPadnos> (only 125 pounds or so)
[19:23:02] <SWPadnos> oops - 250 pounds
[19:23:18] <Sed_> we get the 2" plate cut to size if and when we use it
[19:23:30] <SWPadnos> good plan
[19:24:32] <SWPadnos> you'd need a bandsaw with about a 30' blade to cut those
[19:24:50] <Sed_> heh, we should get 2...
[19:25:35] <Sed_> its just when you have NO tools I dont know that a large bandsaw with a blade welder is one of the first things you buy
[19:26:18] <SWPadnos> the blade welder isn't necessary, but I think they're standard on the larger saws
[19:26:29] <Sed_> its big...
[19:26:43] <Sed_> we have no tooling for the CNC or the Lathe...
[19:26:50] <SWPadnos> I know the feeling
[19:27:10] <SWPadnos> I bought an $1800 milling machine, and about $10k worth of other stuff (including CNC conversion parts)
[19:27:17] <bill20r3> ouch.
[19:27:32] <SWPadnos> heh - you're in for the same trip ;)
[19:27:50] <bill20r3> shush!
[19:27:54] <SWPadnos> micrometers, parallels, vise, collets, chucks, drills, mills, level ...
[19:27:57] <bill20r3> just lop a zero off.
[19:28:05] <Sed_> I have physisists ordering the machinery for the shop.
[19:28:15] <bill20r3> but yeah, I've spent as much on tooling as the machine, so far.
[19:28:19] <bill20r3> and I still need lots of stuff.
[19:28:24] <SWPadnos> that's a problem, but at least they should be used to paying for things like electron microscopes
[19:28:29] <Sed_> we have not micomters, callipers vises collets chucks or drills
[19:28:37] <Sed_> not=no
[19:28:42] <SWPadnos> $$$
[19:28:45] <SWPadnos> start adding that stuff up
[19:28:59] <Sed_> but we have a Haas CNC mll on its way
[19:29:05] <SWPadnos> center / edge finders, indicators ...
[19:29:20] <SWPadnos> you still need to measure the finished part to insure that it's within spec
[19:29:27] <Sed_> I was told to take my edge finder home with all my other tools
[19:29:42] <SWPadnos> no double-sided parts?
[19:31:04] <SWPadnos> funny - the largest saw MSC carries has only a 40" throat
[19:31:13] <SWPadnos> you couldn't cut a sheet in half with that
[19:31:19] <SWPadnos> (even a 4x8)
[19:31:57] <Sed_> well we actually have a skill saw.. and 2 drill presses.. and a bench grinder.. thats about the extent of our shop
[19:32:13] <Sed_> and a 6" dry drop saw
[21:24:07] <Sed_> * Sed_ wonders how long the blade is on a 40" saw
[21:25:49] <SWPadnos> Sed_, 180-185 inches - not bad at all
[21:31:21] <tanhe> this isnt for san.nas based questions is it
[21:31:49] <Jacky^> ?
[21:31:52] <bill20r3> nope
[21:32:00] <Jacky^> O_o
[21:32:19] <SWPadnos> smart guy - read the channel description
[21:34:55] <CIA-14> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: Added some watch leds and value displays.
[22:15:49] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[22:15:49] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[22:21:12] <CIA-14> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: eliminate duplicate watch of a pin.
[22:43:23] <CIA-14> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: fixed 5'th level of tree widget setup.
[22:51:24] <k4ts> hello
[22:54:50] <rayh> Hi k4ts
[22:55:01] <k4ts> hi rayh
[22:56:10] <rayh> Must be getting late there.
[22:56:28] <k4ts> yes
[22:56:34] <k4ts> 24.00
[22:58:10] <rayh> Midnight!
[22:59:07] <k4ts> yes
[23:00:51] <k4ts> what time is it there ?
[23:01:12] <rayh> 17.01
[23:01:31] <k4ts> wow
[23:01:44] <rayh> In our common language we would say five oclock.
[23:03:57] <k4ts> in italy we would sono le cinque
[23:04:04] <k4ts> ih ih
[23:04:38] <Jacky^> hello
[23:04:43] <Jacky^> k4ts: :D
[23:04:52] <rayh> hey. What's up?
[23:04:57] <Jacky^> teaching a bit of italian to rayh ? :
[23:05:00] <Jacky^> hi rayh
[23:05:09] <Jacky^> surfing the web ..
[23:05:12] <k4ts> yes
[23:05:25] <k4ts> teachers k4ts
[23:05:36] <k4ts> teacher
[23:06:28] <k4ts> rayh: hi = ciao
[23:06:59] <rayh> I knew that but was afraid to use it.
[23:07:18] <rayh> k4ts: is a teacher?
[23:07:44] <k4ts> because?
[23:07:44] <Jacky^> she could be .. for itlian language :)
[23:07:52] <SWPadnos> so, is ciao both "hi" nad "bye"? (like shalom)
[23:07:59] <SWPadnos> s/nad/and/
[23:08:03] <Jacky^> k4ts: s /because /why
[23:08:57] <k4ts> because was afraid to use it rayh ?
[23:09:08] <Jacky^> why
[23:09:28] <k4ts> why?
[23:09:38] <k4ts> no because Jacky^ ?
[23:09:42] <Jacky^> in italian language does not exist any difference betwwen why/because
[23:09:50] <Jacky^> we just use : perch� for all
[23:10:01] <Jacky^> same thing for ciao
[23:10:08] <k4ts> ok Jacky^
[23:10:16] <Jacky^> ciao is used as hi or bye ..
[23:10:21] <Jacky^> at the same way
[23:10:52] <SWPadnos> so perch� is also the question "why?" (versus the statement like "that's why", which is the same as "because")
[23:11:04] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: yeah
[23:11:07] <k4ts> good bye = arrivederci
[23:11:10] <SWPadnos> interresting
[23:11:14] <Jacky^> theres no difference
[23:11:23] <Jacky^> it depend on phrase
[23:11:31] <SWPadnos> and my sister never told me :)
[23:11:38] <Jacky^> haha
[23:12:03] <k4ts> buona notte= good night
[23:12:08] <Jacky^> its a very bad thing to go in a country without know to speak
[23:12:35] <Jacky^> in 2002 ive been in california for 3 week
[23:12:40] <k4ts> sigh Jacky^ 0_0
[23:12:44] <rayh> I know a little about not speaking the language. Mexico.
[23:12:44] <SWPadnos> I agree - that's whay I let my sister do the talking when in Italy
[23:12:50] <Jacky^> i was tryng to explain as the monkey
[23:13:06] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:13:37] <k4ts> rayh: è venuto in italia?
[23:13:39] <SWPadnos> and Germany, and France, and ... (everywhere but England and most of Canada)
[23:13:48] <Jacky^> btw k4ts theres some irc channel when is possible to learn english
[23:14:22] <rayh> I have not been to Italy. My oldest boy works for an Italian medical equipment maker.
[23:14:37] <Jacky^> ive not much time to stay in that channel .. :(
[23:15:10] <rayh> Distributor for Germany and Austria.
[23:15:14] <k4ts> ok rayh your boy
[23:15:19] <Jacky^> nice
[23:15:27] <k4ts> understand
[23:15:47] <rayh> Yep. He visits the company regularly. Says that italian food is the best.
[23:16:00] <k4ts> yep
[23:16:21] <Jacky^> dieta mediterranea :D
[23:17:04] <k4ts> also
[23:17:06] <k4ts> mode
[23:17:11] <k4ts> woman
[23:17:17] <k4ts> moda
[23:17:24] <k4ts> sorry
[23:17:32] <k4ts> culture
[23:17:33] <Jacky^> O_O haha
[23:17:38] <rayh> no problem
[23:17:55] <k4ts> no mode is francais
[23:18:06] <k4ts> ah ah
[23:18:44] <k4ts> I'm polyglot
[23:18:50] <k4ts> ih ih
[23:19:10] <Jacky^> k4ts: wahts polyglot ?
[23:19:17] <Jacky^> what is
[23:19:54] <k4ts> poliglotta
[23:19:55] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[23:21:00] <rayh> I don't even remember what polyglot means in US english.
[23:21:05] <SWP_Away> heh
[23:21:10] <Jacky^> Im too :(
[23:21:34] <SWP_Away> Someone who is able to speak, write, or read several languages is a polyglot. This noun also describes a mixture or confusion of languages. Example: "Caroline was quite overwhelmed by the polyglot of voices that met her when she entered the youth hostel." Polyglot is often capitalized when it is used to mean a book, especially a Bible, that contains the same text in several languages....
[23:21:35] <SWP_Away> ...Polyglot can also be used as an adjective. A synonym of this sense is multilingual. ...
[23:21:37] <k4ts> persona che parla piu lingue
[23:22:02] <Jacky^> first time I heard it
[23:22:19] <rayh> Wah!
[23:22:26] <k4ts> yes < SWP_Away
[23:22:47] <k4ts> ah ah
[23:23:29] <Jacky^> yes
[23:24:03] <Jacky^> k4ts: can talk french a lot better as I speak english
[23:24:20] <k4ts> tarzan?
[23:24:27] <Jacky^> Ive not much memory :/
[23:24:36] <Jacky^> to store terms ..
[23:24:57] <k4ts> Jacky^: I've
[23:24:59] <Jacky^> otherwise spanish would be simple to learn for it peoples
[23:25:04] <k4ts> no Ive!
[23:25:17] <Jacky^> I think Ive 4 mb
[23:25:21] <Jacky^> maybe less
[23:25:23] <Jacky^> ghghg
[23:25:48] <Jacky^> id add some memory bank
[23:25:52] <Jacky^> :D
[23:26:03] <rayh> I remember in the old days of computers, having to ask for a large core job.
[23:26:23] <rayh> It was 16k
[23:26:30] <Jacky^> wow :)
[23:26:31] <k4ts> I've good memory
[23:27:21] <k4ts> also visual
[23:27:43] <Jacky^> I forgot what I eat
[23:29:14] <k4ts> yeehi Jymmm hello
[23:29:21] <Jymmm> hi anna
[23:29:53] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm
[23:30:14] <rayh> arrivederci k4ts got to work for a while
[23:30:22] <k4ts> ciao rayh
[23:30:29] <Jacky^> bye rayh have a fun
[23:30:39] <rayh> I figured that you could use caio that way as well.
[23:30:42] <k4ts> good work
[23:30:48] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:30:51] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_away
[23:31:42] <k4ts> Jymmm: no work you?
[23:33:20] <Jymmm> k4ts work for myself =)
[23:34:36] <k4ts> well
[23:34:48] <k4ts> autonomo
[23:35:51] <Jacky^> who work for his self work for 3 peoples
[23:36:10] <k4ts> I 'm at my home no work da 1 december
[23:36:17] <Jacky^> or not ? O_O
[23:40:26] <k4ts> I go night
[23:40:32] <k4ts> bye
[23:40:33] <Jacky^> g night k4ts
[23:46:40] <Jacky^^> test :)