#emc | Logs for 2006-01-04

[00:04:46] <les_w> seems so
[00:05:01] <les_w> I started work up again yesterday
[00:05:13] <les_w> taking a while to get my mind in gear
[00:06:11] <les_w> off now. though. I think I will play trivial pursuit in paltalk.
[00:06:15] <les_w> fun game
[00:06:33] <les_w> I do well if there are a lot of science questions
[00:11:52] <zwisk> Sounds fun!
[00:17:43] <les_w> YEAH IT SURE IS!
[00:17:49] <les_w> oops
[00:18:00] <les_w> guys vs gals in the game
[00:18:05] <les_w> guys all caps.
[00:18:46] <les_w> software is used to score. you have to type fast!
[01:28:05] <jepler> hi again alex_joni_
[01:28:11] <jepler> get the de.po sorted out?
[01:28:30] <alex_joni_> yup.. mail is about to leave
[01:28:34] <jepler> great
[01:29:10] <jepler> I think it may have been my e-mail client that helpfully changed the encoding of that file
[01:29:29] <alex_joni_> ok, as long as it wasn't gettext it's OK
[01:30:07] <jepler> sometimes I'm not sure I know what I'm doing, working with these .pot, .po, .mo files
[01:30:13] <jepler> you know, americans really don't worry about those kinds of things
[01:30:21] <jepler> like letters that aren't in ASCII, for instance, we just don't care.
[01:30:40] <alex_joni_> lol.. but german stuff is in ASCII
[01:30:47] <alex_joni_> iirc
[01:31:36] <jepler> I mean good old 7-bit ASCII. none of those them umlauts
[01:31:59] <alex_joni_> 7bit?
[01:32:30] <alex_joni_> that's too much :D
[01:32:42] <jepler> I know, I don't really see a need for upper case and lower case
[01:32:48] <jepler> and 31 control characters? what waste!
[01:33:11] <alex_joni_> :))
[01:33:16] <alex_joni_> got it?
[01:33:31] <jepler> yes
[01:33:40] <alex_joni_> ok, hope it's ok...
[01:35:34] <jepler> running axis in german now ..
[01:35:45] <alex_joni_> cool.. want me to help you run it? :D
[01:35:46] <jepler> Was "Override Limits" still not in the po file?
[01:35:52] <alex_joni_> it was..
[01:35:57] <alex_joni_> hang on, I'm looking
[01:36:00] <jepler> did you translate it?
[01:36:04] <jepler> it's still in english on my screen
[01:36:06] <skunkworks> 7 bit ascii had upper and lower case.
[01:36:10] <skunkworks> ;)
[01:36:11] <alex_joni_> #: ../scripts/axis.py:121
[01:36:12] <alex_joni_> msgid "Override Limits"
[01:36:12] <alex_joni_> msgstr "Grenzwerte aufheben"
[01:36:32] <alex_joni_> skunkworks: we know, yet we think of it as a waste of space
[01:36:44] <alex_joni_> I think ASCII might be ok with 5-bit or 6-bit ;)
[01:37:27] <alex_joni_> jepler: strange.. how does the rest look?
[01:37:40] <skunkworks> ah
[01:38:22] <jepler> Hm .. I hadn't done a "cvs update" at home on axis, so I was missing some of the changes
[01:38:30] <jepler> now "Override Limits" translates to "None" !?
[01:38:45] <alex_joni_> huh?
[01:38:47] <jepler> with the tooltip "Monentare Erlaubriss ... [L]" which I think is right
[01:38:55] <alex_joni_> nope.. not right
[01:39:07] <alex_joni_> Momentare Erlaubniss... is override limits
[01:39:10] <alex_joni_> ahh.. ok ;)
[01:39:16] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is not thinking straight :(
[01:39:26] <jepler> #: ../scripts/axis.py:121
[01:39:26] <jepler> msgid "Override Limits"
[01:39:26] <jepler> msgstr "Grenzwerte aufheben"
[01:39:36] <jepler> is that the right translation I just pasted?
[01:39:41] <alex_joni_> yup
[01:39:51] <alex_joni_> I pasted that a few lines up too
[01:39:57] <jepler> oh yeah I see that now
[01:39:59] <jepler> talk about not thinking
[01:40:13] <alex_joni_> join the club, we take new members every day
[01:41:33] <jepler> so the keys have different names in german? [Pos1], [Strg], etc?
[01:43:14] <alex_joni_> just a few
[01:43:42] <alex_joni_> my special thanks go to my keyboard there, as I wouldn't know those names otherwise :D
[01:43:45] <jepler> OK, the "Override Limits" problem is mine
[01:43:57] <alex_joni_> I talk Ctrl and Home, not Strg and Pos1 ;)
[01:43:59] <jepler> now it says Greenich Mean Time or whatever it is
[01:44:07] <alex_joni_> huh?
[01:44:15] <jepler> Grenzwerte aufheben
[01:44:17] <jepler> forget it
[01:44:27] <alex_joni_> ahh.. it works?
[01:44:29] <jepler> it's right now, and the mistake was mine
[01:44:30] <jepler> yes
[01:44:36] <alex_joni_> good
[01:44:40] <alex_joni_> post a pic ;)
[01:46:55] <jepler> jas
[01:47:25] <alex_joni_> jas?
[01:47:34] <alex_joni_> jasmin & lillies?
[01:47:40] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/01136301942/axis-de.png
[01:47:45] <jepler> jas = "just a second"
[01:47:51] <alex_joni_> :P
[01:48:31] <alex_joni_> missed a few texts :)
[01:48:41] <alex_joni_> Position: Relative Actual
[01:49:17] <alex_joni_> oh, and can you fix one thing that doesn't look righ to me?
[01:49:26] <jepler> sure
[01:49:38] <alex_joni_> #: ../tcl/axis.tcl:1227
[01:49:39] <alex_joni_> msgid "Feed Override (%):"
[01:49:39] <alex_joni_> msgstr "Geschwindigkeit �bersteuerung (%):"
[01:49:56] <alex_joni_> make that "Geschwindigkeits �bersteuerung (%):"
[01:50:04] <alex_joni_> aka.. add an 's'
[01:50:06] <jepler> OK
[01:50:08] <jepler> I think I can handle that
[01:50:14] <alex_joni_> thought so..
[01:50:32] <alex_joni_> darn USB... don't like it anymore
[01:52:09] <alex_joni_> oh man, this sounds so sick in german: "Dabei sind Zeiger eine spezielle Art von Referenz, bei der die R�ckgewinnung der Variablen aus der Referenz durch eine Dereferenzierungsoperation erfolgt."
[01:54:10] <jepler> alex_joni_: can you translate these for me? "Position" "Relative" "Actual" "Machine" "Commanded"
[01:54:27] <alex_joni_> Position, Relativ, Aktuell, Maschine, Befohlen
[01:58:07] <jepler> I updated the screenshot again
[01:59:37] <alex_joni_> love the tooltip ;)
[01:59:43] <alex_joni_> looks great overall
[01:59:49] <jepler> there are still things that aren't translated
[01:59:55] <jepler> looks like all the menus and some of the tooltips are not
[02:00:00] <alex_joni_> maybe if you open a program too.. it'll look just swell
[02:00:07] <alex_joni_> which one?
[02:00:31] <jepler> "Top view" etc
[02:01:13] <alex_joni_> that's not in .po yet
[02:01:17] <jepler> every menu item with spaces is not translated
[02:01:25] <jepler> yeah, I think I have to quarrel with gettext again
[02:01:35] <alex_joni_> okie..
[02:02:59] <jepler> In strings like "_Open" do you understand that it means "O" will be shown underlined in the menu?
[02:03:55] <alex_joni_> yes
[02:04:13] <alex_joni_> I did a few menus back in the days ;)
[02:04:26] <alex_joni_> didn't change the [xx] though
[02:04:29] <jepler> So you meant to make "f" be underlined in "O_ffnen"?
[02:04:33] <alex_joni_> yes
[02:04:38] <jepler> OK
[02:04:45] <alex_joni_> that seems to be a standard amongst german programs
[02:04:59] <alex_joni_> as � is somehow strange to use on a menu ;)
[02:05:14] <jepler> oh .. I never thought of that
[02:05:21] <jepler> I figured you'd just type O
[02:05:46] <alex_joni_> well yes, but that makes it hard for people with different keyboards to use
[02:06:05] <alex_joni_> imagine AXIS ends up on a PC misconfigured with DE locale, yet EN keyboard
[02:06:26] <alex_joni_> you'd still want them to be able to use it :P
[02:06:44] <alex_joni_> even if they don't understand any of the things written there (lol)
[02:08:16] <jepler> cradek has installed the japanese version of windows before...
[02:08:30] <alex_joni_> there's tkemc in japanese :P
[02:08:57] <alex_joni_> ask fenn he might do AXIS in japanese :)
[02:11:16] <alex_joni_> what did cradek install that for anyways?
[02:12:42] <jepler> At work, there's a fellow translating our software's manual, and eventually our software, into japanese. We hope to enter the japanese market. someday.
[02:13:00] <alex_joni_> ok, then you can with AXIS too :P
[02:13:11] <jepler> try downloading the po file from viewcvs and see if the encoding is right: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/i18n/de.po?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain
[02:13:18] <alex_joni_> I used some CAD once that was in japanese..
[02:13:20] <jepler> and then you can fill in the new strings...
[02:13:30] <alex_joni_> more strings? :(
[02:13:38] <alex_joni_> jepler: kidding ;)
[02:14:23] <jepler> actually in a way I view AXIS as practice for this task at work .. because I will be the one doing the translation infrastructure, and I intend to use the GNU gettext suite for working with .po/.pot files
[02:14:57] <jepler> (though we have our own alternative format instead of .mo, because the gettext library itself seems to be GPL so we can't use it)
[02:15:04] <jepler> but enough about my day job, I don't like talking about it too much
[02:15:38] <alex_joni_> heh, ok
[02:16:43] <jepler> do you want to update the de.po once more tonight, or should I make a new screenshot with a file loaded and call it good for the moment?
[02:17:11] <alex_joni_> hang on, I'll finish soon
[02:17:31] <alex_joni_> you can then make the screenshot.. ok?
[02:17:34] <jepler> Hm .. "ON" "OFF" "ESTOP RESET" aren't in the catalog, are they?
[02:17:58] <jepler> er, ON ESTOP "ESTOP RESET" I guess they are
[02:19:27] <alex_joni_> didn't see them before
[02:19:29] <jepler> please translate these too: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/i18n/de.po.diff?r1=1.4;r2=1.5
[02:20:04] <jepler> I hope I've caught most of the strings by now
[02:20:27] <jepler> maybe you have an ngc-file that would be intersting to show in the screenshot?
[02:20:38] <alex_joni_> don't think so :(
[02:20:47] <alex_joni_> I don't have many ngc files :D
[02:20:55] <jepler> oh yeah?
[02:20:58] <alex_joni_> use Chips or something
[02:21:17] <jepler> I'm sure everybody's tired of seeing my circuit boards in the screenshots
[02:21:17] <alex_joni_> <whispers> I don't really use emc much </whispers>
[02:21:25] <alex_joni_> but don't tell everyone :D
[02:21:46] <Jymmm> tell everyone what?
[02:21:56] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: nothing :)
[02:22:04] <Jymmm> nothing what?
[02:22:18] <alex_joni_> jepler: it might be more of help if you enter new strings as "", not already pseudo-translated
[02:22:51] <jepler> alex_joni_: I think gettext (msgmerge) is doing that automatically
[02:22:58] <alex_joni_> ok ;)
[02:23:04] <jepler> #: ../tcl/axis.tcl:53
[02:23:04] <jepler> #, fuzzy
[02:23:04] <jepler> msgid "Toggle _Emergency Stop"
[02:23:04] <jepler> msgstr "Not Aus ändern [F1]"
[02:23:06] <jepler> you mean like this one?
[02:23:07] <alex_joni_> because it does a lousy job..
[02:23:13] <alex_joni_> right
[02:23:25] <jepler> -N, --no-fuzzy-matching do not use fuzzy matching
[02:23:29] <jepler> maybe I need to use this
[02:23:36] <alex_joni_> it also does this:
[02:23:37] <alex_joni_> #: ../rs274/errorlist.py:30
[02:23:37] <alex_joni_> msgid "Attempt to raise negative number to non-integer power"
[02:23:37] <alex_joni_> msgstr ""
[02:23:37] <alex_joni_> "Versuch eine negative Zahl mit einem nicht-ganzzahligem Wert zu potenzieren"
[02:23:41] <zwisk> wow... there's everyone!
[02:23:49] <alex_joni_> hi zwisk, long time
[02:23:53] <jepler> yeah, it is a very clever piece of software.. I guess
[02:24:00] <zwisk> indeed! Howdy.
[02:24:09] <jepler> --no-wrap do not break long message lines, longer than
[02:24:09] <jepler> the output page width, into several lines
[02:24:11] <zwisk> Jepler... just the guy I should ask about axis/emc2 things...
[02:24:15] <alex_joni_> jepler: think that string moved to the next line still works ?
[02:24:19] <jepler> zwisk: I'm still not an emc2 user
[02:24:25] <zwisk> really? oh... hmm...
[02:24:28] <alex_joni_> zwisk: you cought him.. (on AXIS at least)
[02:24:30] <jepler> alex_joni_: yes, it still works just fine formatted like that
[02:24:39] <zwisk> well, if you type this into a program and load it into axis, does it give you a weird error?
[02:24:41] <jepler> zwisk: I only run emc1/simulator + axos
[02:24:42] <alex_joni_> ok, then I'll stop correcting those
[02:24:45] <zwisk> G42 D2 F9 G1Z.1
[02:25:06] <alex_joni_> how weird is weird?
[02:25:08] <zwisk> I can do that in MDI, no problem, but if I load it as a program, it tells me the D2 needs a G42 or G41 command... which... well... is right ther.e..
[02:25:21] <zwisk> (not that weird I guess..)
[02:26:20] <jepler> zwisk: here (emc1/simulator) the program ran just fine after I added M2 as the next line
[02:26:37] <zwisk> hmm... interesting... perhaps its and emc2 problem.
[02:27:00] <zwisk> (I'm not running emc1 anymore..)
[02:27:16] <jepler> zwisk: just in case AXIS isn't picking up an interpreter change in emc2, "rm -rf build" in the axis source directory, then "setup.py install" again.
[02:27:42] <jepler> zwisk: if you use a different front end and run or verify the program, do you get the same error?
[02:27:51] <zwisk> I'll try that next...
[02:27:58] <zwisk> (But axis is so cool I don't wanna run any other front end! :P)
[02:27:58] <alex_joni_> jepler: relax, it's probably not axis related :)
[02:28:06] <zwisk> probably right... it
[02:28:07] <skunkworks> here here
[02:28:08] <alex_joni_> zwisk: that's nice of you to say..
[02:28:10] <jepler> hey, thanks for the compliment
[02:28:13] <zwisk> probably is emc2 related.
[02:28:21] <alex_joni_> zwisk: might be ;)
[02:28:30] <alex_joni_> zwisk: how is everything?
[02:28:42] <skunkworks> we have been finding a few odd interp problems
[02:28:47] <zwisk> there's been that christmas/new years thing keeping me all to busy.
[02:28:58] <skunkworks> in emc2
[02:29:00] <alex_joni_> heh, we know it just too well
[02:29:01] <zwisk> lots of family and friends visiting. SO... good, I guess is the short answer.
[02:29:09] <alex_joni_> nice to hear
[02:29:11] <jepler> well here's an interesting development. I just tried to load "isd.ngc" and I got an error in illegible german about "ohne Angabe von G41 oder G42" which I think is the message we were just talking about ...
[02:29:22] <zwisk> how was your break, alex_joni?
[02:29:34] <alex_joni_> break?
[02:29:53] <zwisk> jepler, that sounds like a german translation of my error (or dutch?) :P
[02:29:57] <jepler> yes, german
[02:30:06] <jepler> alex and I are just working on translating AXIS into other languages
[02:30:12] <jepler> as you may have seen in your scrollback
[02:30:12] <zwisk> alex_joni: yeah.... time off around the hollidays... (You got some, right?)
[02:30:14] <jepler> N3839G01Z-0.008F4.0
[02:30:24] <alex_joni_> zwisk: still am there..
[02:30:27] <zwisk> nice.
[02:30:31] <jepler> I don't see any D words there!
[02:30:44] <alex_joni_> but it seems I'm busy doing emc stuff up to 6-7am
[02:30:51] <alex_joni_> jepler: check previous line
[02:31:25] <jepler> N3840D2Y-1.002F8.0
[02:31:26] <jepler> ah, there it is
[02:31:37] <zwisk> Error reporting is a bit less than perfect in all of emc...
[02:32:05] <jepler> in this case maybe the error is correct, I don't see any G41 or G42 here
[02:32:38] <zwisk> hmm... is it possible the G41/42 is being dropped someplace?
[02:33:46] <alex_joni_> jepler: no D in the emc2 version of cds.ngc
[02:33:57] <alex_joni_> oh.. you said isd.ngc :(
[02:34:23] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ rejoins his own club
[02:35:15] <alex_joni_> two places where G41 seems to be missing..
[02:35:37] <alex_joni_> zwisk: but in that case they actually don't exist in the file..
[02:35:48] <alex_joni_> not that they are there but don't get regarded
[02:36:24] <zwisk> hmm... maybe my version of emc2 is outdated... actually, it very likely is...
[02:39:21] <alex_joni_> oh.. if it's a few days old it's outdated :)
[02:39:34] <zwisk> yup :)
[02:39:39] <Jymmm> s/days/hours/
[02:39:39] <jepler> that's what I like about emc1 -- it may be outdated, but until emc2 has a simulator I don't have to do anything about it.
[02:39:52] <zwisk> oohh... yeah... a configuration editor. There has been some new work done!
[02:40:11] <alex_joni_> not really editor, but picker
[02:40:23] <alex_joni_> a few things have happend
[02:40:30] <zwisk> hmm... ok... picker. Time to go figure out how to get an initial config to pick.
[02:40:30] <alex_joni_> including procedures in the interpreter
[02:40:35] <zwisk> excellent.
[02:40:44] <alex_joni_> click RUN, and choose one
[02:40:57] <zwisk> I don't have any to choose... (empty box)
[02:42:45] <alex_joni_> you need to cvs up, emc2/configs too
[02:42:56] <alex_joni_> configs have been very reorganized..
[02:43:13] <alex_joni_> they are each in one dir now
[02:44:07] <zwisk> boy... I can't leave you guys alone for a minute, can I?! :) (Actually it's great to see so much work being done!)
[02:44:24] <alex_joni_> zwisk: that's only the tip of the iceberg ;)
[02:44:29] <alex_joni_> I hope..
[02:44:34] <alex_joni_> quite a few bugs closed too
[02:44:42] <zwisk> yeah, I noticed that in my email! :)
[02:44:49] <alex_joni_> board is moving nicely too
[02:47:29] <alex_joni_> zwisk: what kernel & RT do you run?
[02:47:47] <zwisk> Right now I'm running #1 on debian
[02:47:55] <alex_joni_> bugger
[02:48:00] <alex_joni_> no 2.4 around?
[02:48:17] <zwisk> Erm... yeah, I think I have a redhat 2.4 around, though I haven't booted it a long while...
[02:48:30] <alex_joni_> we want to release a final version of emc1
[02:48:38] <alex_joni_> and could need some testing..
[02:49:11] <zwisk> I have 2.4.27-1.0.rtai but I don't have a machine hooked up to that...
[02:49:58] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/01136301942/axis-de.png (updated again)
[02:50:03] <alex_joni_> well if you can try it out (compiling at least), here it is: http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/~emc/emc-1.2.0-rc1.src.tgz
[02:51:04] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ likes that snapshot ;)
[02:51:07] <jepler> I'll try it in kernel 2.6 + simulator
[02:51:20] <jepler> if that's supposed to be a supported configuration..
[02:51:43] <alex_joni_> hrmm.. can't remember if sim.ini is supplied, but it should be supported
[02:51:50] <jepler> yes, it's there
[02:52:42] <skunkworks> hey that isn't english - is stop stop in german?
[02:52:55] <alex_joni_> no that's in romanian actually
[02:53:20] <skunkworks> is stop - stop in romanian?
[02:53:32] <alex_joni_> imagine that..
[02:53:36] <alex_joni_> stop is universal
[02:53:40] <jepler> #: ../tcl/axis.tcl:773
[02:53:40] <jepler> msgid "Offset"
[02:53:40] <jepler> msgstr ""
[02:53:44] <alex_joni_> except for french Arret
[02:53:47] <skunkworks> cool
[02:53:55] <alex_joni_> jepler: offset too
[02:54:00] <jepler> OK
[02:54:14] <alex_joni_> but I thought it's better not to duplicate it
[02:54:29] <alex_joni_> maybe someone comes up with a better translation (although I doubt it ;)
[02:56:52] <jepler> alex_joni_: for emc-1.2.0-rc1, I used "make -C rcslib/src PLAT=linux_2_4_22; make -C emc/src PLAT=linux_2_4_22" and then in emc/ I did "env PLAT=linux_2_4_20 ./sim.run -ini sim.ini". tkemc comes up.
[02:57:21] <jepler> I can jog, and I can start running 3d_Chips
[02:57:23] <alex_joni_> great, thanks a lot
[02:57:44] <jepler> er, "env PLAT=linux_2_4_22" in the last command
[02:57:54] <jepler> I'm not sure what PLAT string is most correct, but that's the one I used before
[02:59:53] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ whispers again
[02:59:57] <alex_joni_> wanna know a secret?
[03:00:07] <alex_joni_> it doesn't really matter :D
[03:00:45] <alex_joni_> as long there is a rcslib/etc/foo.def there, most likely PLAT=foo will work (exept mixing rtlinux with rtai or such major stuff)
[03:01:00] <alex_joni_> jepler: care to test one more thing for me to be really happy?
[03:01:04] <jepler> alex_joni_: OK sure
[03:01:12] <alex_joni_> rcslib/etc/configure
[03:01:24] <alex_joni_> then use PLAT=nonrealtime && PLAT=realtime
[03:01:39] <alex_joni_> well.. no realtime in your case..
[03:01:53] <jepler> "checking for RT dir..." and then the hard drive melts
[03:01:54] <alex_joni_> but now that I think of it configure will most likely fail
[03:01:56] <alex_joni_> :(
[03:02:09] <alex_joni_> I'll send you a new one
[03:02:14] <jepler> oh that didn't take as long as I expected
[03:02:14] <jepler> checking for RT dir... configure: error: RT not found, try to specify one by --with-rtai=<path>, --with-rtlinux=<path>, --with-rtlinuxpro=<path>
[03:02:31] <alex_joni_> use --with-rtai=/tmp
[03:02:38] <alex_joni_> or something to make it shutup ;)
[03:02:48] <jepler> configure: error: RTAIDIR=/tmp specified, but neither rtai-config \(RTAI-3.x\) nor realtime-config \(rtai-24.1.x\) found. Check your RTAI install
[03:03:01] <alex_joni_> darn.. I'm too smart for myself :(
[03:03:19] <jepler> ./configure --without-realtime ?
[03:03:35] <jepler> (doesn't do anything)
[03:03:37] <alex_joni_> right .. that's whishfull thinking
[03:03:39] <jepler> cd
[03:03:40] <jepler> oops
[03:03:57] <alex_joni_> the ./configure is taken over from emc2
[03:04:08] <alex_joni_> so no support for non-RT systems, forget I asked
[03:05:11] <jepler> OK
[03:05:24] <jepler> AXIS works with it
[03:05:31] <jepler> at least it starts up
[03:05:43] <alex_joni_> cool
[03:15:31] <Jymmm> Whats the diff between an arc and a bezier?
[03:15:52] <jepler> Jymmm: an arc is a portion of a circle. a bezier is not a conic section at all.
[03:15:59] <Jymmm> conic?
[03:16:12] <jepler> http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConicSection.html
[03:16:20] <Jymmm> looking...
[03:16:21] <SWPadnos> a slice of a teepee = a conic
[03:16:23] <jepler> the result of intersecting a plane and two cones
[03:16:40] <Jymmm> wth?
[03:17:02] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: an arc is a predefined form
[03:17:13] <alex_joni_> a bezier is a line (polinomial) defined by control points
[03:17:15] <jepler> actually "[T]he parabola can be exactly expressed as a quadratic Bezier with the three points as the control vertices."
[03:17:20] <Jymmm> the arc I got, it's the bezier/conic I dont get
[03:17:21] <alex_joni_> a special form of spline
[03:17:32] <jepler> forget what I said, it was incorrect anyway
[03:17:55] <jepler> a bezier is a different kind of curve, though
[03:18:00] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: there is a silly screensaver with moving twisted lines
[03:18:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni ok
[03:18:15] <alex_joni_> those are actually beziers where the control points move all over the screen
[03:18:35] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ did that in the 11th grade iirc ;)
[03:18:45] <alex_joni_> still have pascal code for it.. want it?
[03:18:48] <SWPadnos> a Bezier is a more general form, so the conic sections are specific applications of a Bezier, I think
[03:19:15] <Jymmm> * Jymmm still not getting a bezier (sorry)
[03:19:17] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: a bezier is a special case of spline, a polinomial curve
[03:19:19] <SWPadnos> but you can represent non-conic sections with a bezier as well
[03:19:25] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:19:28] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: forget conics / comics
[03:19:29] <alex_joni_> :D
[03:19:36] <alex_joni_> imagine this: you have 4 points
[03:19:40] <jepler> beziers are supposed to be useful for approximating arbitrary curves using "control points"
[03:19:45] <Jymmm> * Jymmm tosses the Spiderman #1 out the window
[03:20:09] <alex_joni_> let them be known as 1,2,3,4
[03:20:13] <Jymmm> jepler Like the dot-to-dot drawing when you were a kid?
[03:20:22] <alex_joni_> Jymmm : kinda
[03:20:29] <alex_joni_> but you only draw from 2 to 3
[03:20:41] <alex_joni_> so that the curve is tangent to lines 12 and 34
[03:20:53] <alex_joni_> get me?
[03:21:01] <jepler> here's a good image: http://escience.anu.edu.au/lecture/cg/Spline/Image/bez01.png
[03:21:05] <Jymmm> wouldn't that be like angles?
[03:21:16] <jepler> 1, 4 are "anchor point"s and 2, 3 are "control point"s in this image
[03:21:17] <Jymmm> or an angled line
[03:21:28] <alex_joni_> what jepler pasted
[03:21:30] <Jymmm> jepler isn't that a arc?
[03:21:40] <alex_joni_> no, an arc is always the same radius
[03:21:46] <alex_joni_> no change in curvature
[03:21:51] <jepler> right, what alex said
[03:22:08] <jepler> load that image in your favorite vector+raster program and see if you can draw an arc exactly over it
[03:22:09] <Jymmm> hmmmmm, NEVER EVER?
[03:22:16] <jepler> I suspect you can't.
[03:22:29] <alex_joni_> that in the picture is a general spline, there are quite a few flavours (bezier, b-spline, etc)
[03:22:34] <Jymmm> jepler well I could, but...
[03:22:45] <alex_joni_> each depending on the relationship between points and line
[03:23:06] <jepler> here's another bezier that is clearly not an arc: http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/~pbourke/curves/bezier/bezier10.gif
[03:23:23] <alex_joni_> for instance, on bezier the spline goes through 2 points, and tangent to lines 12 and 34
[03:23:40] <jepler> and here is another: http://www.cubic.org/docs/img/bezier1.png
[03:24:19] <Jymmm> ok, I think I'm getting bezier, now back to arc for a moment...
[03:24:35] <Jymmm> an arc will NEVER change it's radius?
[03:24:47] <alex_joni_> no, an arc is cut from a circle
[03:25:00] <alex_joni_> it will never change it's radius as you are moving on the arc
[03:25:20] <alex_joni_> of course different arcs have different radiuses
[03:25:26] <alex_joni_> or is that radii?
[03:25:27] <Jymmm> so with enough copies of ANY ARC, you *WILL* get a circle?
[03:25:32] <jepler> Jymmm: yes
[03:25:57] <Jymmm> is there any particular reason to use arcs over beziers?
[03:26:03] <alex_joni_> but not any circle
[03:26:15] <alex_joni_> they are different things
[03:26:34] <fenn> the math is easier for arcs
[03:26:41] <alex_joni_> one (bezier) can describe any shape, arc is limited to some extent (only can specify radius, start and stop angle)
[03:26:59] <fenn> and its easier to describe an arc, only a couple values to define
[03:27:32] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: btw, here's a b-spline (opposed to bezier you see the spline is not going through any checkpoints) http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/COURSES/cs3621/NOTES/spline/B-spline/bspline-curve-open-1-CANVAS.jpg
[03:27:44] <Jymmm> ok, so arcs are more for angles than anything else?
[03:28:30] <fenn> if you want to make a circle, you'd use an arc
[03:28:39] <Jymmm> alex_joni I think I'll leave b-splines for another day =)
[03:28:58] <alex_joni_> most parts you are cutting have some sort of geometric simpleness
[03:29:08] <alex_joni_> so on those an arc is appropiate mostly
[03:29:21] <alex_joni_> like cutting a rectangle with rounded corners
[03:29:41] <Jymmm> well, from what I've learned, what I'm working on needs a bezier, not a arc.
[03:29:56] <alex_joni_> what are you working on?
[03:29:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni that makes sense.
[03:30:16] <Jymmm> Just cleaning up some artwork with LOTS of points.
[03:30:30] <alex_joni_> if it isn't a regulated polinomial, then probably a bezier is what you mean
[03:30:40] <alex_joni_> but for milling you have 2 problems on using beziers
[03:30:48] <alex_joni_> 1. the CAM software should know about them
[03:31:18] <alex_joni_> 2. the CAE? software should know about it (CAE beeing EMC in our case)
[03:31:29] <fenn> cnc control
[03:31:31] <alex_joni_> but I'm sure it's not CAE :(
[03:31:33] <alex_joni_> right
[03:31:47] <fenn> cae == pro engineer or FEA stuff
[03:32:01] <alex_joni_> cae is comp. aided. engineering?
[03:32:04] <alex_joni_> right then
[03:32:41] <fenn> are arcs blended in emc?
[03:33:06] <alex_joni_> yes, one by one
[03:33:16] <alex_joni_> kidding, actually no
[03:34:12] <fenn> so wouldnt lots of little lines be preferable for approximating a spline?
[03:34:21] <Jymmm> eeeeeeeeew
[03:34:28] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: actually yes
[03:34:32] <Jymmm> that's what I'm cleaning up now
[03:34:35] <alex_joni_> if it comes to use emc..
[03:34:36] <fenn> jymmm emc only supports lines and arcs
[03:34:46] <fenn> unless you wanna write a spline-based trajectory planner for us
[03:35:00] <Jymmm> yeah, but not 50,000 lines for a heart
[03:35:01] <alex_joni_> fenn: and those poorly :D
[03:35:07] <fenn> heh
[03:35:15] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: you're probably faster redoing it in CAD
[03:35:24] <fenn> is it a raster scan or something?
[03:35:30] <Jymmm> that's what I am doing...
[03:35:55] <fenn> i dont know as much about cam software as i would like
[03:36:02] <Jymmm> clipart is not designed for cam work.
[03:36:04] <jepler> cradek's ttt converts splines to line segments .. I think it can give acceptable results with a small number of segments
[03:36:25] <Jymmm> oh this is a clusterfuck of layered pieces.
[03:36:47] <alex_joni_> that's zoofilia
[03:36:55] <Jymmm> I clean them up, close points, remove loop, etc and create a CAM ready art library
[03:36:57] <alex_joni_> fscking around with beowolf
[03:37:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni your mucking with a beowolf cluster?
[03:37:31] <alex_joni_> <Jymmm> oh this is a clusterfuck
[03:37:39] <Jymmm> lol
[03:37:52] <Jymmm> alex_joni you've never heard the term before I see =)
[03:37:58] <alex_joni_> nope
[03:38:07] <alex_joni_> but .. every day we learn something new
[03:38:09] <Jymmm> simular to Snafu, and Fubar
[03:38:13] <alex_joni_> too bad today is crap
[03:38:21] <alex_joni_> too bad today it's crap
[03:38:35] <fenn> clusterfuck is a useful word to know
[03:38:45] <Jymmm> lol
[03:38:53] <alex_joni_> I'll bear that in mind
[03:39:00] <alex_joni_> right next to b-splines
[03:39:40] <Jymmm> fenn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusterfuck
[03:40:33] <Jymmm> clusterfuck
[03:40:33] <Jymmm> A disastrous situation that results from the cumulative errors of several people or groups. In semi-polite company this is referred to as a Charlie Foxtrot
[03:40:36] <fenn> see also: monkeys humping a football
[03:42:26] <fenn> i've never heard of charlie foxtrot
[03:42:58] <alex_joni_> ok, you guys lost it
[03:43:29] <Jymmm> long time ago
[03:43:48] <alex_joni_> although I must say I like 'armored cow'
[03:44:10] <jepler> goodnight guys
[03:44:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni you kinky bastard!
[03:44:20] <jepler> alex_joni_: thanks again for your help .. I look forward to getting your next translation(s).
[03:44:20] <alex_joni_> night jeff
[03:44:33] <alex_joni_> jepler: thought you forgot :P
[03:46:01] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: that's 'canned milk'
[03:46:11] <alex_joni_> but 'Broke-Dick' is funny too
[03:46:35] <Jymmm> alex_joni you and your tit fetish =)
[03:46:52] <zwisk> hmm...so rtapi.conf doesn't exist in emc2 anymore?
[03:47:39] <alex_joni_> zwisk: it never did :D
[03:48:08] <zwisk> hmm... my old version of emc2 had it in scripts for some reason.
[03:48:15] <alex_joni_> it still exists
[03:48:24] <alex_joni_> but it only gets generated on make
[03:48:51] <zwisk> hmm. It didn't seem to get made.
[03:48:56] <alex_joni_> after ./configure of course
[03:49:23] <alex_joni_> # This rule actually makes rtapi.conf. By including Makefile.inc
[03:49:23] <alex_joni_> # as a dependency we insure that rtapi.conf is regenerated
[03:49:23] <alex_joni_> # on the first "make" after running ./configure.
[03:49:23] <alex_joni_> $(EMC2_HOME)/scripts/rtapi.conf:
[03:50:11] <alex_joni_> zwisk: you come just right..
[03:50:27] <alex_joni_> there is some 'make install' that's crying out to get tested :)
[03:51:08] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: know what the nicest typo is?
[03:51:32] <alex_joni_> rm -rf . /
[03:51:35] <alex_joni_> ROFL
[03:52:35] <zwisk> hmmm yep... I seem to have had some old cruft in my tree. We'll try again.
[03:52:52] <alex_joni_> I have a 'working' version in HEAD
[03:53:00] <alex_joni_> lots have happened since that tree
[03:53:12] <alex_joni_> lots of files moved around which made it hard to merge
[03:56:14] <alex_joni_> zwisk: I'm still on vacation this week, so if you want to address it I'd be available
[03:57:40] <zwisk> It's probably on my side... I'll keep workin' through it.
[03:58:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni thus why you don't run as root/su
[03:58:22] <alex_joni_> I mean I'm here for answers if you need em
[03:58:42] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: that's not my typo, just thought it's nice
[03:58:54] <Jymmm> actually rm -rf /*
[03:59:11] <alex_joni_> put that in a bash script called M102 in emc
[03:59:16] <alex_joni_> and run it ;)
[04:01:23] <Jymmm> ah, no.
[04:01:53] <alex_joni_> well if you don't want, I'll go away
[04:01:54] <alex_joni_> :P
[04:06:26] <zwisk> ls
[04:06:29] <zwisk> doh
[04:06:43] <alex_joni_> ls - command not found :)
[04:06:56] <zwisk> yup. :P
[04:07:10] <alex_joni_> any luck on rtapi.conf?
[04:07:18] <zwisk> yup... it was just cruft in my tree...
[04:07:28] <zwisk> I rechecked out and all was well.
[04:07:32] <alex_joni_> oh.. ok, better to start clean
[04:07:43] <zwisk> yep.
[04:08:03] <alex_joni_> how do you find what has changed?
[04:08:18] <alex_joni_> like any of it?
[04:08:52] <zwisk> diff's on backups, and cvs -n up normally...
[04:09:12] <zwisk> oh... that's not what you wanted to know :)
[04:09:19] <zwisk> The config manager is neat....
[04:09:21] <alex_joni_> poor choice of words from my side..
[04:09:30] <zwisk> Though if you create a new profile, it seems to crash.
[04:09:34] <alex_joni_> s/find/like/
[04:09:53] <alex_joni_> probably access rights that make it go tits up.. worked ok here
[04:09:59] <zwisk> I'm re-installing axis at the moment, as I really do like it...
[04:10:00] <alex_joni_> but it's still a work in progress
[04:10:10] <alex_joni_> axis1.1 is great
[04:12:33] <zwisk> it would appear that scripts/emc doesn't have execute permissions by default.
[04:12:49] <alex_joni_> no ,it gets modified by the first make too
[04:13:05] <alex_joni_> because it gets generated by ./configure, and that doesn't make it executable
[04:13:19] <alex_joni_> so you can't run emc before building.. which isn't that bad
[04:13:59] <zwisk> Hmm... ok. Something strange must have happend on my first make, with the cruft, as a bunch of stuff didn't happen. But it all seems ok now.
[04:14:15] <zwisk> And, the newer emc2 + axis seems to be happy with my file now. Yay!
[04:14:26] <alex_joni_> cool
[04:19:28] <zwisk> Doh... darn... it still doesn't like my file when there's actually a value in the tool table. Doh.
[04:19:55] <cradek> what's wrong?
[04:19:58] <alex_joni_> strange..
[04:20:06] <alex_joni_> same error?
[04:20:15] <zwisk> I get that same error about D need G41 or G42, even though it's there.
[04:20:25] <alex_joni_> Dx complaining on G41 I think
[04:20:31] <zwisk> Yep... I'll retry without axis. I bet it's an emc2 thing though.
[04:23:28] <alex_joni_> I'm off to bed
[04:23:30] <zwisk> hmm... axis gives me the error when I load. tkemc doesn't, but when I run the program, it tells me "Cutter gouging with radius comp"... Maybe there is a problem with my math in the file.
[04:23:37] <zwisk> g'night, alex_joni!
[04:23:42] <alex_joni_> night all
[04:23:43] <cradek> goodnight
[04:24:06] <cradek> zwisk: we've seen off-by-one errors before; I don't remember how/if we fixed it
[04:24:27] <cradek> zwisk: so maybe axis is showing a wrong error
[04:24:42] <zwisk> hmm... so, like erorr -18 instead of error -19 sort of a thing?
[04:24:42] <alex_joni_> or tkemc
[04:25:22] <alex_joni_> but probably axis.. (there might have been changes by lerman stuff to interp lately)
[04:25:43] <alex_joni_> zwisk: right
[04:25:45] <cradek> yeah
[04:25:50] <cradek> 71 is gouging
[04:25:52] <cradek> 72 is "D word"
[04:26:07] <zwisk> Interesting.
[04:26:17] <alex_joni_> ok, now I'm gone.. I can see the sun, need to hide.. quick
[04:27:23] <cradek> zwisk: submit a bug report in the sf bug tracker (axis category) with the details please (attaching the shortest-possible program that reproduces the bug would be great)
[04:27:38] <zwisk> ok.. will do...
[04:27:42] <cradek> thanks
[04:27:47] <cradek> that will make sure it doesn't get lost
[04:35:26] <skunkworks> cradek - so is axis part of emc2 now? if I where to cvs emc2 - axis would be there? If not will it at some point?
[04:35:41] <cradek> no, it's separate
[04:35:49] <cradek> the bug tracker is on sourceforge though.
[04:36:26] <skunkworks> I was wondering. (it is painless to install anyway ;)
[04:36:38] <cradek> yeah it's pretty easy nowadays
[04:36:59] <cradek> when we make the emc2 release tarball, I'll make an axis release tarball and put them together in the files section
[04:38:18] <skunkworks> the axis-emc2 install on the wiki page should updated. Is that something anyone can do?
[04:40:43] <cradek> url?
[04:41:09] <cradek> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/installing
[04:41:20] <cradek> these are our latest instructions for axis installation
[04:41:33] <cradek> If you're talking about the emc wiki, yes, anyone can update it
[04:41:49] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Compiling_Axis_EMC2
[04:42:01] <skunkworks> your directions work great
[04:42:43] <cradek> yeah these wiki instructions are totally outdated
[04:43:17] <cradek> it used to be a really touchy process.
[04:43:22] <skunkworks> initially I was using parts from the wiki page and some from yours. now yours is totally correct
[04:43:35] <skunkworks> I remember ;)
[04:44:04] <skunkworks> (for the bdi 4.3)
[04:44:12] <skunkworks> all I have experience with
[04:44:39] <skunkworks> I have to go to bed - talk to you later.
[04:44:45] <cradek> there, I "fixed" the wiki page
[04:45:06] <skunkworks> ;) damn your good
[04:45:11] <cradek> haha
[04:45:15] <cradek> thanks for filing that bug report
[04:45:24] <cradek> we'll probably look into it shortly
[04:45:33] <zwisk> yep... no problem. Lemme know if you can't reproduce it or anything...
[04:45:40] <cradek> will do
[04:46:06] <skunkworks> more interp issues - or differnt bug you think?
[04:46:19] <cradek> hard to say...
[04:46:28] <cradek> I am sure our errors used to be right
[04:46:31] <cradek> (I got them all the time)
[04:46:42] <cradek> if they are off by one now, it's probably due to an emc2 change
[04:46:50] <cradek> have to dig into it
[04:47:15] <skunkworks> well - night.
[04:47:16] <cradek> is your axis build new from scratch?
[04:47:33] <cradek> I mean, did you untar the source and build it fresh?
[04:48:08] <zwisk> It should be.
[04:48:11] <cradek> ok
[04:48:30] <zwisk> (it as untar'd from a cvs snapshot)
[04:48:36] <cradek> ok
[04:48:43] <cradek> just wondered if you had an old axis build in that directory
[04:48:47] <cradek> obviously not
[04:49:27] <zwisk> Would python get confused by existing 'compiled' files or somesuch?
[04:49:37] <cradek> sometimes it seems not-very-smart
[04:49:46] <cradek> rm -r build is always a good practice
[04:51:09] <cradek> argh, too late to start on this :-)
[04:51:11] <cradek> maybe tomorrow
[04:51:25] <zwisk> k'... No huge rush :)
[04:53:40] <chris___> hiya
[04:54:41] <cradek> hello
[04:58:14] <chris___> i use emc1 is it worth upgrading to emc2?
[04:59:18] <cradek> that depends on lots of things!
[04:59:34] <cradek> the first emc2 release is upcoming soon
[04:59:51] <cradek> if you want to help develop or test emc2, you can install it alongside your emc1
[05:00:03] <chris___> ok well i've dled the cvs and compiling seemed to work, but i didnt really try it
[05:00:14] <cradek> if emc1 is working perfectly and you're not interested in developing or testing, it might be best to wait for the release
[05:00:39] <cradek> if emc1 has bugs that affect you and are fixed in emc2 (there are several) then you might want to upgrade
[05:01:01] <chris___> i wouldnt mind testing it, ive only got a simple 3 axis mill and i think i use steppmod on emc1
[05:01:24] <cradek> for 3 axis steppers it will be really easy to set up and use emc2
[05:01:42] <cradek> emc2 performs somewhat better with steppers
[05:01:54] <chris___> ive noticed a very strange bug on emc1 i dont know if it exists on emc2
[05:02:31] <chris___> i think its steppers, parallel port step/direction....
[05:02:51] <cradek> what's the bug?
[05:03:13] <chris___> i use eagle to crate pcbs, and pcb-gcode to create the gcode
[05:03:39] <cradek> cool, I do that too
[05:03:59] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[05:04:07] <chris___> if i open and run the file the dimentions are wrong e.g when going to z -0.007 it doesnt work
[05:04:23] <chris___> if i first step through each instruction before running it works properly
[05:04:37] <cradek> when you say it doesn't work, what do you mean exactly?
[05:04:58] <chris___> actually i just need to step through the first few instructions, then it works fine after that
[05:05:26] <chris___> it doesnt go to 0.007 it goes to some other distance like 0.345 e.g
[05:05:43] <cradek> bizarre
[05:05:46] <chris___> very
[05:06:06] <cradek> that sounds like it would be hard on your tooling!
[05:06:16] <chris___> but to fix it i just step through the first few instructions
[05:06:41] <cradek> I've never seen that kind of behavior
[05:06:46] <cradek> how old is your emc?
[05:06:53] <chris___> i have it happens everytime
[05:07:04] <chris___> 1year maybe older
[05:07:17] <chris___> when emc2 wasnt working
[05:07:28] <cradek> would you send your g-code file to me: chris@timeguy.com
[05:07:40] <cradek> and I'll help you debug more tomorrow if you come back
[05:07:44] <cradek> it's bedtime here...
[05:08:15] <chris___> ok i'll see
[05:08:37] <cradek> I'll be around starting at 1400-1500UTC
[05:08:47] <chris___> so i was thinking upgrade to emc2 and use axis
[05:09:14] <cradek> that's probably a great idea if you're having problems with your version.
[05:09:25] <cradek> see you tomorrow, goodnight
[05:09:46] <chris___> cya
[05:10:12] <chris___> anyone else here?
[05:11:48] <les_w> hi chris...here for a little
[05:14:22] <chris___> ok
[05:14:27] <chris___> re emc2
[05:14:49] <chris___> its asking for an emc.nml file when i try to run it
[05:15:11] <les_w> I am a commercial user of emc1
[05:15:23] <les_w> looking at emc2
[05:15:29] <les_w> but it is still beta
[05:15:51] <chris___> ok, i use emc1 too, decided to update to emc2 becuse of some wired bug ive got
[05:16:25] <les_w> emc1 has faults, but is fairly stable and works
[05:16:33] <les_w> what bug?
[05:16:42] <chris___> yes emc1 does work
[05:17:07] <chris___> its a strange problem with the z axis not going to what is stated in the file
[05:17:21] <les_w> hmm
[05:17:25] <chris___> it will if i step through a few instructions first
[05:17:33] <les_w> you are using stepper?
[05:17:34] <chris___> then any file i load works properly
[05:17:39] <chris___> yes
[05:18:23] <les_w> hmm I have not seenthat. I use servo, and have many thousands of commercial parts made
[05:18:48] <les_w> I use about a 9 month old version though
[05:19:08] <chris___> nobody has seen it, my version is about a year old
[05:19:15] <les_w> wow
[05:19:18] <les_w> hmm
[05:19:25] <chris___> what kinda parts do you make?
[05:19:49] <les_w> heh...prototypes...but mostly turley calls
[05:19:56] <les_w> many thoudsands
[05:20:06] <chris___> turley calls?
[05:20:07] <les_w> turkey calls
[05:20:17] <les_w> i'll show you
[05:20:20] <chris___> what are they?
[05:21:00] <les_w> http://www.lmwatts.com/gallery.html
[05:21:10] <les_w> scroll to the bottom
[05:21:49] <chris___> what do they do?
[05:22:01] <les_w> for hunters
[05:22:08] <chris___> hunting turkeys?
[05:22:09] <les_w> make turkey sounds
[05:22:12] <chris___> ok
[05:22:32] <les_w> made 10,000 last year with emc1
[05:22:47] <chris___> what software do you use for designing things?
[05:23:06] <les_w> autocad and millwrite 2000
[05:23:25] <chris___> ok
[05:23:27] <les_w> also artcam
[05:24:18] <chris___> i should of left my computer on so i could try getting emc2 to work
[05:24:46] <les_w> I am working on some emc 2 stuff a little
[05:24:56] <chris___> have you got emc2 to work?
[05:24:56] <les_w> but production uses emc1
[05:25:03] <les_w> no
[05:25:12] <les_w> but have not tried much
[05:25:12] <chris___> where you stuck?
[05:25:26] <les_w> if there is a bug I have to lay off workers
[05:25:35] <les_w> can't mess with it much yet
[05:26:09] <les_w> I'm not stuck..I just don't use beta software in production
[05:26:25] <chris___> what bout for testing?
[05:26:37] <les_w> I plan to do some
[05:27:17] <les_w> emc1 has flaws, and someday emc2 will fox those we hope
[05:27:23] <chris___> i know nothing about it, i just started today
[05:27:24] <les_w> fix
[05:29:05] <les_w> I have to be very careful about testing. My machine is big, pushing a 4 KW spindle on a 500 kG gantry at very high speeds
[05:29:29] <les_w> a software error could cost tens of thousands of dollars
[05:30:11] <chris___> youd really hate my software bug, itll jam the bit through your table
[05:30:46] <chris___> i just have a small 3 axis mill
[05:31:09] <les_w> I call it cnc wood splitter syndrome...since my machine has 2200 pounds of force peak
[05:31:38] <les_w> my machine cando metal too though.
[05:31:39] <chris___> thats a really big machine
[05:31:44] <les_w> yeah.
[05:31:57] <Jymmm> Hi les_w
[05:32:05] <les_w> hey jymmm
[05:32:10] <les_w> Up late
[05:32:22] <Jymmm> les_w only 21:20 here
[05:32:28] <les_w> was playng trivial pursuit on paltalk.
[05:32:31] <les_w> had a blast
[05:32:33] <chris___> arent you lucky these people like me that tests the software
[05:32:45] <chris___> its 16:30 here
[05:33:05] <les_w> it's tommorow here.
[05:33:09] <Jymmm> les_w I know your good at math, what about algos?
[05:33:16] <chris___> wednesday here
[05:33:26] <les_w> ah
[05:34:01] <les_w> my trivial pursuit game was australia
[05:34:33] <Jymmm> les_w you party animal you =)
[05:34:39] <chris___> its like 16:00 to 19:00 over here when its nye in america
[05:34:40] <les_w> i do aldos. I guess they taught us some about that at engineering school.
[05:35:06] <chris___> australian trivial pursuit?
[05:35:09] <les_w> got one answer. Qustion was:
[05:35:28] <les_w> what does an emetic do?
[05:35:32] <Jymmm> les_w: Ok, not tonight, but I might hit you up after I do some more research.
[05:35:43] <Jymmm> les_w stuff
[05:36:02] <Jymmm> I give up
[05:36:06] <les_w> I typed " makes you feed your young"
[05:36:10] <les_w> got it
[05:36:12] <les_w> hahaha
[05:36:49] <les_w> and chris..missed on one question:
[05:36:53] <Jymmm> les_w you might like boulderdash/baulderdash then
[05:37:28] <les_w> what do they locally reffer people from Sydney as?
[05:37:33] <les_w> I said:
[05:37:41] <les_w> Sydiots?
[05:37:48] <Jymmm> lol
[05:38:03] <chris___> wankers
[05:38:07] <chris___> im from melbourne
[05:38:08] <Jymmm> hey, your emetic answer would be correct, if your a bird.
[05:38:15] <les_w> great fun for a guy stuck out in the woods.
[05:38:36] <chris___> whats the answer?
[05:38:46] <Jymmm> induces vomiting
[05:38:56] <chris___> the sydney people?
[05:39:01] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[05:39:07] <les_w> ah it was a joke
[05:39:12] <chris___> i know they induce vomiting
[05:39:58] <les_w> most of the questions involed aussie slang so I would miss them
[05:40:06] <chris___> such as?
[05:40:22] <les_w> I know "spit the dummy "and a few things
[05:40:32] <chris___> hahah, yeah
[05:40:33] <les_w> had GDF from NSW
[05:40:38] <les_w> GF
[05:40:58] <chris___> white maggot, dish licker, dead horse, yobo
[05:41:05] <les_w> haha
[05:41:13] <fenn> yobo?
[05:41:29] <les_w> My GF said arvo a lot.
[05:41:55] <chris___> typical aussie, wearing stubbies and drinking stubbies at the cricket, thats a type of yobo
[05:42:07] <les_w> heh
[05:42:24] <Jymmm> wearing stubbies?
[05:42:31] <chris___> shorts
[05:42:32] <fenn> like an aussie yuppie eh
[05:42:35] <Jymmm> ah
[05:42:43] <chris___> a yobo would be an anti-yuppie
[05:42:50] <fenn> er, right :P
[05:43:04] <les_w> Well it's just after work for you guys...an ungodly hour for me
[05:43:20] <fenn> the witching hour
[05:43:22] <chris___> no im doing shift work, just started
[05:43:23] <les_w> the hole in my stomach is acting up...can't sleep
[05:43:47] <fenn> the damn hippies are cutting up squirrel carcasses in my kitchen
[05:43:50] <Jymmm> les_w just dont let the beer leak out... that's alcohol abuse
[05:43:58] <les_w> haha
[05:45:02] <chris___> moggy
[05:45:22] <Jymmm> les_w let me guess, you got that lovely hole in your corporate slug days?
[05:45:47] <les_w> glad when this spell is over. Type "a". Used to it.
[05:46:23] <chris___> any more aussie slang?
[05:46:28] <Jymmm> yuck
[05:46:52] <les_w> Ah, my body can't keep up with my head. Worked myself into hospital at corporate in Chicago.
[05:46:53] <Jymmm> hit the dentist today in and out in under 45 minutes.
[05:47:08] <les_w> Now I own the firm. It's even worse.
[05:47:16] <Jymmm> les_w fire the owner
[05:47:19] <les_w> pull or root?
[05:47:24] <fenn> my body cant keep up with my head either, usually it works itself out by me being lazy and getting nothing done
[05:47:30] <Jymmm> les_w let Congo do all the management
[05:47:39] <les_w> he already does
[05:48:01] <Jymmm> les_w I broke my front tooth 20+ years ago, the bond broke 4 days ago, the put on a new one.
[05:48:04] <Jymmm> les_w lol
[05:48:31] <les_w> smile!
[05:48:46] <Jymmm> }/\/\/\/\/\{
[05:48:50] <les_w> haha
[05:48:55] <Jymmm> =)
[05:49:28] <fenn> |-|-|_|_|-|-| <- bucktoothed
[05:49:38] <Jymmm> no pain, no shots either
[05:50:00] <les_w> I always loved buck-toothed girls.
[05:50:09] <Jymmm> lol
[05:50:26] <Jymmm> les_w you kinky bastard you! =)
[05:50:32] <les_w> ahem
[05:50:45] <Jymmm> Knew theres a reason I like ya!
[05:50:53] <les_w> heh
[05:52:06] <les_w> blah. almost 1 am. I have a herd day's work of telephone tag to do tommorrow.
[05:52:14] <les_w> hard
[05:52:38] <Jymmm> that can be a pain
[05:52:46] <les_w> i'll try to get some sleep if tummy will stop the burn.
[05:52:53] <Jymmm> les_w Oh, meant to ask you...
[05:53:06] <les_w> ?
[05:53:18] <Jymmm> les_w HAve you seen 15 deg v cutters that are as durable as 60 or 90 deg?
[05:53:41] <Jymmm> 1/2" or better
[05:53:43] <les_w> 15 has got to be fragile
[05:53:53] <les_w> single flute is best
[05:54:11] <les_w> use HSS not carbide
[05:54:18] <Jymmm> would that casue a lot of deflection?
[05:54:39] <les_w> not so much as just being weak
[05:54:43] <Jymmm> why HSS ?
[05:54:59] <les_w> carbide too brittle
[05:55:06] <les_w> in other words...
[05:55:08] <Jymmm> less chance of snapping?
[05:55:13] <les_w> "pingf"
[05:55:17] <Jymmm> lol
[05:55:23] <les_w> ping
[05:55:24] <les_w> haha
[05:55:37] <Jymmm> you do that so well, that you can even type it out... the SOUND of experience
[05:55:49] <les_w> well...off to bed
[05:55:56] <Jymmm> G'Night les_w
[05:55:59] <les_w> night jymmmand chris
[05:57:12] <chris___> night
[05:57:27] <chris___> i thought carbide was better for milling pcbs
[05:58:24] <fenn> pcb's have fiberglass in them which is very hard, so carbide will stay sharp much longer
[05:59:23] <Jymmm> chris___: the 15 deg wasn't for PCB's in my case. for engraving in wood
[05:59:36] <fenn> you should only be cutting like .01" deep on a pcb so it shouldnt put too mcuh force on the bit
[06:00:01] <chris___> ok, so if i do wood use hss
[06:00:13] <chris___> yeah i got 0.005 on pcbs
[06:00:42] <Jymmm> chris___: No, les suggested HSS fo rthe 15 deg, as I was askign for DURABLE bits - ones that won't break easily
[06:01:00] <Jymmm> chris___ 3/4" diameter
[06:01:06] <fenn> in most cases carbide is fine for wood
[06:01:19] <fenn> 15 degree is pretty fragile though
[06:02:07] <chris___> what effect does a 15degree bit give?
[06:02:38] <les_w> I'm sound asleep in bed...but we use carbide exclusively for wood. zzzzz
[06:02:58] <Jymmm> chris___ Just a steep angle is all
[06:04:52] <chris___> yes rather narrow, how wide is the tip?
[06:04:53] <Jymmm> chris___ mostly just playing around with new design capabilities artistic wise
[06:05:17] <chris___> ok, seeing what it looks like
[06:05:42] <Jymmm> a very DEEP but narrow groove in some cases
[06:06:01] <Jymmm> or softer edge in others
[06:08:00] <chris___> yeah from 3/4" at 15 degress it would be rather deep, how deep?
[06:10:02] <chris___> got any pics of your work?
[06:10:32] <fenn> jymmm why dont you just use an endmill?
[06:11:25] <fenn> i guess i dont know what you're doing.. nevermind
[06:16:46] <Jymmm> fenn you know like a 60 deg v-bit, but a 15 deg one
[06:16:55] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[06:16:55] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[06:24:21] <chris___> a long tapered bit
[06:25:41] <Jymmm> basically, yeah.
[06:30:35] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[06:30:40] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[06:32:00] <chris___> hmmm
[06:32:02] <chris___> chris___ is now known as chris
[06:32:10] <chris> chris is now known as chrisb
[06:32:26] <Jymmm> discussion on another channel =)
[06:32:38] <chrisb> chrisb is now known as mrchris
[06:32:44] <mrchris> what channnel?
[06:32:51] <Jymmm> php
[06:34:51] <mrchris> whats that got to do with emc?
[06:35:01] <Jymmm> not a thing =)
[06:38:29] <Jymmm> I have a ton of nicks, depending on the situation =)
[06:40:27] <mrchris> ok
[07:10:43] <mrchris> stfu i cant think, "i wont some peanuts", thats better
[07:13:00] <Jymmm> ?!
[07:14:17] <fenn> uh, me too
[07:20:55] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[07:25:05] <mrchris> night
[09:36:18] <mrchris> anyone awake?
[09:37:53] <fenn> i guess you could say that
[09:39:19] <mrchris> are you a dev?
[09:42:28] <mrchris> or do you run emc2?
[09:46:12] <fenn> both questions subject to interpretation
[09:46:22] <fenn> just ask and i'll see what i can make up
[09:47:26] <zwisk> I'm still about...
[10:11:22] <mrchris> sorry im at work
[10:11:36] <mrchris> i just compiled emc2 today
[10:11:53] <mrchris> when i try and run it complains about emc.nml file missing..
[10:15:13] <mrchris> is this come self creatable file, is there a template some where, or is it a mistake, or is the file blank?
[10:34:12] <fenn> you're using a config file from emc1 right? so you need to point it to emc.nml in configs/common or just copy it to the same directory
[10:36:50] <fenn> if you look in emc.ini or whatever your .ini file is called, it should have NMLFILE = emc.nml or something like that
[10:40:11] <mrchris> cant look at the file as the computer that runs this is nor turned on, and im at work
[10:40:33] <mrchris> yeah i do use emc1, the same file works on both? ill try it out when i get back home
[10:41:17] <fenn> are you using the old .ini file or you're just trying to run the program?
[10:42:11] <mrchris> im using the one supplied with emc2
[10:42:47] <fenn> hmm that doesnt sound good
[10:43:29] <mrchris> will emc2 work on a vanilla 2.6 kernel?
[10:43:34] <fenn> no
[10:43:49] <fenn> you need rtai patched on it
[10:43:49] <mrchris> it needs rtlinux?
[10:43:52] <fenn> right
[10:44:25] <mrchris> is there an rtai patch for 2.6, its been about a year since i compiled emc1
[10:44:47] <fenn> you can download rtai and patch + compile a kernel, but it's a big pain
[10:44:59] <fenn> there are debs of a patched kernel somewhere
[10:45:08] <mrchris> i use gentoo
[10:45:27] <fenn> blegh
[10:45:42] <fenn> feel free to compile your own kernel then :)
[10:45:56] <mrchris> as i always do
[10:46:03] <fenn> or you could extract the kernel from the deb with ar -x i guess
[10:46:23] <mrchris> that pc currently uses 2.4.20 with rtlinux 3.2
[10:46:40] <fenn> there is a wiki page detailing how to patch the kernel but it's reportedly out of date
[10:47:08] <mrchris> will it work with that kernel?
[10:47:22] <fenn> i'm not sure
[10:47:28] <fenn> i think it does.. cradek uses rtlinux
[10:47:51] <mrchris> emc1 works, emc2 seemed to compile ok
[10:48:06] <fenn> and you're getting an nml file error? weird
[10:48:06] <mrchris> i got upto the missing emc.nml file before i had to go to work is all
[10:49:07] <mrchris> its not in the configs directory
[10:49:31] <fenn> configs/common/emc.nml
[10:49:48] <mrchris> i'll check it out when i get home
[10:50:00] <fenn> dude, ssh rocks
[10:50:16] <fenn> you can crash your computer from halfway around the world
[11:04:54] <mrchris> it sure does, and power switch it the king when it comes to firewalls
[11:06:14] <Jacky^> morning
[11:06:17] <mrchris> i'll check it out when i get home and disable the greatest firewall ever
[11:15:16] <mrchris> hi
[13:35:00] <jepler> zwisk: thanks for figuring out what was going on. I'm not sure what I'll do to fix it, since I want axis to run on emc1 and emc2 ..
[14:23:10] <cncuser> hello
[14:25:01] <cncuser> hi alexjoni, cradek, jepler :)
[14:25:26] <cradek> hello
[14:25:27] <cncuser> i just saw that there is an new axis release in the wild :)
[14:25:34] <cradek> yes axis 1.1 is released
[14:25:47] <cncuser> is this one with or without the pzopengl dependencies ?
[14:25:55] <cncuser> pyopengl
[14:25:56] <cradek> without
[14:26:01] <cncuser> nice :))
[14:27:48] <cncuser> i played around another few hoiurs with the devel release of puppysit. its far from beeing finished but i am thinking if i should go towards 2.6 kernels or if i should stay swith 2.4.
[14:28:13] <cncuser> has anyone some points for or against each ?
[14:28:37] <cncuser> regarding emc2 and rtai
[14:28:44] <cradek> 2.4 can run all versions of emc, 2.6 can't
[14:28:55] <cncuser> hmm, thats a big point
[14:29:02] <cradek> because of that I think you should not pick 2.6 unless you have a very good reason
[14:29:15] <cncuser> cradek: are there many people still using emc1 ?
[14:29:32] <cncuser> cradek: thanks, didnt know that
[14:29:38] <cradek> I think virtually everyone but developers and a few testers are using emc1
[14:29:51] <cncuser> hehe :)
[14:30:01] <cradek> but those users aren't going to care about puppy, because they're already installed
[14:30:41] <cradek> I've had good luck running 2.4.31 with SATA on lots of modern hardware
[14:30:56] <cradek> I don't see any overriding reason to go to 2.6 yet (wrt hardware support)
[14:31:18] <cncuser> cradek: yes i too. i personallz like 2.4 kernel very much. the compiletime isnt that long ;)
[14:34:23] <jepler> cncuser: did you see that for AXIS 1.2 we'll support i18n?
[14:34:40] <jepler> cncuser: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01136301942
[14:40:07] <cncuser> jepler: no i didnt, cool :)
[14:40:42] <jepler> cncuser: I think you asked me about it once in the past
[14:41:07] <cncuser> jepler: yes, i remember. cool you did it .
[14:43:09] <jepler> cncuser: can you think of a shorter translation for "Feed Override (%):"? The one alex gave me stretches the whole screen wider as you can see in the screenshot
[14:47:29] <cncuser> hmmm
[15:00:42] <cncuser> hard :) for feed is not speed(geschwindigkeit) but in this case its the closest thing i can imagine. maybe one could say "Geschwindigkeitsanpassung" which says "speed modification" instead of "Geschwindigkeitsuebersteuerung"
[15:00:54] <Jacky^> hello
[15:00:59] <cncuser> hi jacky
[15:01:20] <cncuser> saves a few letters :)
[15:01:46] <jepler> maybe I'll see if I can just split it over two lines without it looking too bad
[15:01:58] <cradek> how about replacing it with Gesch...ung
[15:02:18] <cncuser> cradek: thats not readable :)
[15:02:34] <Jacky^> it was an earthquake in california ?
[15:02:36] <cradek> I'm kidding, but it looks just as readable to me
[15:02:44] <cncuser> cradek: hehe :)
[15:02:55] <cradek> Jacky^: I didn't hear about that, I hope it wasn't a big one
[15:03:29] <Jacky^> 6.5 richtel , seem strong enough :/
[15:03:52] <Jacky^> the only good thing it was in the sea, away from LA
[15:04:47] <Jacky^> probably anyone heard it around there
[15:07:28] <Jacky^> bah, .. going aout for a bit of shopping ;)
[15:07:30] <Jacky^> later
[15:44:03] <cncuser> maybe "Vorschubanpassung"
[15:44:20] <cncuser> Vorschub seems the to be the correct whng instead of speed
[15:44:52] <cncuser> brb, i change client
[15:50:08] <les_w> morning
[15:51:09] <jepler> hi les
[15:52:28] <les_w> know what? at 7:45 I got a conference call from about 6 engineers from a vendor. I answered it in my robe.
[15:52:55] <les_w> half awake
[15:53:24] <jepler> not a call you were expecting?
[15:53:35] <les_w> yes but not at that hour
[15:54:09] <les_w> lucky I was not in the shower
[15:55:28] <les_w> those guys at morgan electro ceramics sure get up with the chickens
[15:55:48] <jepler> hah
[15:56:00] <les_w> I usually do too, but stayed up late last night playing trivial pursuit.
[16:47:56] <johenry> anyone seen ray henry?
[17:03:26] <cradek> not today
[17:04:18] <johenry> thanks
[17:04:23] <cradek> he was around yesterday
[17:05:28] <johenry> I thought he lived here...guess I'll shoot him an e-mail.
[17:51:01] <les_w> blah rewiring the cnc control...I had grounded the 82c55 with normally closed for home switches on the stg dio.
[17:51:13] <les_w> it has a 10k pull up to +5
[17:51:25] <les_w> no wonder I was getting false home trips
[17:52:04] <les_w> better put optos onthat
[17:52:25] <les_w> changing all control lines to 24v
[17:52:50] <skunkworks> sounds like a plan.
[17:55:33] <les_w> yeah the new high power spindle makes a lot of electrical nasties
[18:00:11] <skunkworks> when we where having problems with steppers - my next try was running higher voltage control (higher than 5v) - but it ended up being we where overdriving the stepper.
[18:05:39] <les_w> Well I false trigger z home some...it's running the furthest with home cable next to high current srvo and spindle likes
[18:05:47] <les_w> lines
[18:07:09] <skunkworks> makes sense - have you been able to test the spindle yet (actual cutting)?
[18:07:14] <les_w> searching for something 24v (possibly balanced) to ttl....don't want to solder up stuff
[18:07:25] <les_w> want something ready made here
[18:07:39] <skunkworks> thats cheating ;)
[18:07:58] <les_w> no spindle not running...had major surgery to accomodate the fat wiring
[18:08:10] <les_w> new igus flex conduit
[18:08:33] <les_w> making a few other changes too
[18:08:36] <skunkworks> are you running the vfd at the spindle or on the other end?
[18:08:44] <les_w> other end
[18:08:49] <les_w> 20 feet
[18:09:06] <les_w> cable is shirlded though
[18:09:12] <les_w> shielded
[18:09:41] <les_w> Igus chainflex high flex vfd cable
[18:10:38] <skunkworks> nice
[18:11:08] <les_w> So I am just doing a whole service interval while the machine is down
[18:11:34] <skunkworks> are you going to re-map the leadscrew?
[18:11:39] <skunkworks> leadscrews?
[18:12:04] <les_w> I will do a quick check yeah
[18:12:20] <les_w> preload torque has dropped to about half
[18:12:27] <les_w> it has had lots of use
[18:12:34] <skunkworks> how many hours do you think?
[18:13:17] <les_w> don't have a timer on it...I know we did 80,000 drill peck cycles last year
[18:13:34] <skunkworks> poor thing ;)
[18:13:38] <les_w> 10,000 turkey calls
[18:13:51] <les_w> heh yeah
[18:13:53] <skunkworks> is your z axis preloaded in any way?
[18:14:02] <les_w> It's built for it though
[18:14:09] <skunkworks> (counter-balanced)
[18:14:21] <les_w> yes...all screws and rails are preloaded
[18:14:32] <les_w> oh balanced...no
[18:14:42] <skunkworks> wrong terms - sorry ;)
[18:14:48] <les_w> don't need to
[18:15:00] <les_w> has just enough friction not to fall
[18:15:14] <skunkworks> that works
[18:15:20] <les_w> yeah
[18:16:11] <les_w> it's 2:1 timing belt....that is where I get the friction
[18:16:24] <les_w> if it was direct drive it would fall
[18:17:00] <les_w> oh oh....people coming to fell 4 ft diam oak tree!
[18:17:05] <les_w> BBIAW
[18:17:13] <skunkworks> good luck
[18:18:41] <les_w> ah false alarm
[18:19:03] <les_w> tree is sick and has to go for shop expansion
[18:19:10] <les_w> plenty of firewood huh
[18:21:26] <skunkworks> yes - can't get any good lumber out of it?
[18:22:23] <les_w> I doubt it. prob hollow and full of nails. We'll check and if it looks good we can put some on the saw.
[18:23:06] <skunkworks> have a saw mill?
[18:23:10] <les_w> I think it is too big for our woodmizer...it is 36" max diameter
[18:23:20] <skunkworks> woodmizer - cool -
[18:23:30] <les_w> yeah cousin has 24 hp full hydraulic woodmizer mill
[18:23:38] <skunkworks> I think that is what my grandfather has
[18:23:44] <les_w> handy.
[18:23:46] <skunkworks> yes
[18:24:00] <skunkworks> as long as there are no nails
[18:24:03] <skunkworks> ;)
[18:24:11] <les_w> but this tree is over 48" at the base
[18:25:06] <les_w> red oak
[18:25:14] <les_w> make a lot of florring huh
[18:25:27] <les_w> prob half rotten and bad
[18:25:28] <skunkworks> nice
[18:25:33] <skunkworks> like you say - hollow
[18:25:46] <les_w> yeah, think so
[18:26:12] <les_w> durn...looks like I will be soldering optos on a board
[18:26:53] <les_w> can't find some little cheap something redy made
[18:28:53] <skunkworks> I have not run across what you want - doesn't men anything though
[18:30:06] <skunkworks> here you go les - big picture 2MB but kinda neet
[18:30:07] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/DSC02968.JPG
[18:31:23] <skunkworks> something my dad and his brothers built quite a while ago.
[18:33:10] <les_w> looking
[18:34:07] <les_w> oh, neat!
[18:35:12] <skunkworks> used to have a gas engine as it was "portable" - now it has a 20hp 3 phase motor.
[18:35:18] <skunkworks> a lot nicer
[18:36:30] <skunkworks> the throat is about 2 feet.
[18:37:29] <les_w> I still don't have the solar kiln up
[18:37:41] <les_w> just too much other stuff to do
[18:37:51] <skunkworks> you have that problem too?
[18:38:48] <les_w> Well, I am completely booked up on consulting. I get a break here of a few days waitng for a vendor to make some custon piezo devices though
[18:39:10] <les_w> so I can work on the machine a little
[19:15:51] <Jacky^> hi
[19:16:40] <les_w> hi jacky
[19:17:00] <rayh> Hello Jacky^
[19:17:22] <les_w> ray someone was hunting for you
[19:17:29] <Jacky^> hi guys :)
[19:17:33] <rayh> Was that harbor picture from your balcony?
[19:17:55] <rayh> les_w: Yep. Saw that.
[19:18:31] <les_w> question ray...did you guys just use phototransistor optos for 24v to ttl on that mazak?
[19:19:30] <rayh> One IO interface card was Vital. 16 in opto and 8 dc out.
[19:19:59] <rayh> The others were opto-22
[19:20:33] <les_w> well I gotta go to 24 for home and limit. Stg already has 10 k pullups on the dig ins
[19:21:13] <les_w> just series resistor to the led and use the existing pullup in the stg should work.
[19:21:15] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/OPTO-22-PB16L-DC-INPUT-16-Channel-Board_W0QQitemZ7577371753QQcategoryZ97184QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:21:23] <les_w> looking
[19:21:41] <SWPadnos> throw in a few input modules, and you should be all set
[19:22:36] <les_w> looks good
[19:22:45] <alex_joni_> hi les
[19:22:57] <les_w> only have6 to isolate though
[19:22:57] <Jacky^> evening alex_joni_
[19:23:01] <rayh> hi alex_joni_
[19:23:08] <les_w> grab parts from the drawer...
[19:23:14] <alex_joni_> hi rayh
[19:23:14] <les_w> hi alex
[19:23:19] <SWPadnos> I just did a search for (opto22, opto-22, opto 22) (with the parens)
[19:24:08] <les_w> kinda doing wiring rework and standard service interval for the machine
[19:24:17] <Jacky^> les_w: question about voltage, do you have 220 V there too ?
[19:24:24] <les_w> yes
[19:24:30] <Jacky^> good :)
[19:24:38] <alex_joni_> but that's between 2 phases
[19:24:50] <alex_joni_> or standard 220V 1-phase?
[19:24:55] <les_w> I have 220-240 single and 3 phase
[19:25:28] <Jacky^> thats ok for many carpentier machines ..
[19:25:34] <Jacky^> we use 380 V here too
[19:25:39] <Jacky^> for that
[19:25:57] <les_w> most of our handheld tools are 120v...like routers
[19:26:18] <les_w> the new spindle is 220 delta 380 wye
[19:26:49] <les_w> I am using 220
[19:27:30] <les_w> 230 actually...that's what I am getting since they replaced the power line
[19:27:30] <Jacky^> 220 here is used for light jobs
[19:27:41] <Jacky^> but probabbly enough in most case
[19:27:47] <les_w> goes through forest and squirells chewed it up
[19:28:33] <les_w> chewed the neutral badly
[19:28:39] <les_w> shocking.
[19:28:42] <Jacky^> les_w: K4ts bought a nice gift for you, it require 220 V, planning to send all in the next days ..
[19:28:56] <Jacky^> Im loking for some good pasta, and limoncello :)
[19:28:59] <les_w> oh ty
[19:29:11] <Jacky^> I will ask you, later, for the correct address
[19:29:19] <Jacky^> in email
[19:29:19] <les_w> ah you will make me hungry again
[19:29:26] <les_w> ok
[19:29:27] <Jacky^> hehehe
[19:29:53] <Jacky^> dinner time.. later
[19:30:01] <les_w> later!
[19:30:32] <skunkworks> it is nice having 3 phase - motors are cheap around here.
[19:31:11] <les_w> SWP the only signal lines I will be running at 5v are encoders. Shielded twisted pair though.
[19:31:42] <SWPadnos> you may find that those will need to be differential (if they're not already)
[19:32:07] <les_w> they are
[19:32:22] <les_w> always!
[19:32:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:32:36] <SWPadnos> and only grounded at one end :)
[19:32:45] <les_w> yup
[19:33:19] <les_w> Hey I build big audio power amps some....very familiar with ground loops!
[19:33:39] <les_w> really matters on 1500 watt amps!!
[19:34:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/initraj.cc: fixing bug #1387737, starting with 0 default vel on startup now
[19:34:31] <les_w> sometimes even with careful star grounding you get some
[19:35:00] <les_w> speakers are 100 dba 1 meter 2.83v....
[19:35:15] <les_w> so tiny tiny ground currents can be heard
[19:35:16] <skunkworks> cool alex - did you look at the other bug - no movement causes feedrate set to 0?
[19:36:52] <les_w> oowww...can't find any optos in the parts drawers
[19:36:58] <les_w> thought I had some.
[19:37:56] <les_w> oh well...have to do a mouser and digi key order anyway.
[19:38:05] <skunkworks> time for a mouser/digikey order?
[19:38:14] <les_w> have to replentish the parts bins
[19:38:22] <skunkworks> ;)
[19:38:35] <les_w> Oh I give digi key many thousands a year!
[19:38:50] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emccanon.cc: fix bug #1387740, a motion that goes nowhere clears feedrate. indeed the case when neither linear nor angular move, wasn't checked
[19:39:06] <skunkworks> speak of the devil - nice going alex
[19:39:08] <les_w> get a phone book about once a week it seems
[19:39:19] <les_w> (digi key catalog)
[19:39:35] <cradek> yay
[19:39:40] <skunkworks> same here - when I was a kid the digikey catalog was my chistmas catalog
[19:40:07] <alex_joni_> skunkworks: ;-)
[19:40:37] <les_w> cradek that motion bug in cannon must go way back
[19:41:01] <alex_joni_> what motion bug?
[19:41:17] <les_w> zero move clears feed
[19:41:29] <les_w> actually is it a bug....
[19:41:37] <alex_joni_> it was in emc1 too?
[19:42:04] <les_w> a zero length move kinda implies F0...and it's modal...
[19:42:06] <cradek> I don't think that was a bug in emc1
[19:42:14] <les_w> hmm ok
[19:42:22] <cradek> I tested it (but not carefully)
[19:42:37] <alex_joni_> ok..
[19:42:45] <cradek> my testing has sure been wrong before (as alex knows)
[19:42:53] <les_w> heh
[19:42:54] <alex_joni_> cradek: fair enough for me..
[19:44:27] <alex_joni_> cradek: I think the bug is there too
[19:44:36] <alex_joni_> can you test on an emc1 ?
[19:44:42] <alex_joni_> open MDI, issue F100
[19:44:44] <skunkworks> it only did it in mdi though - iirc
[19:44:50] <alex_joni_> then on the next line, G1X1
[19:44:55] <alex_joni_> and see what happens
[19:45:07] <jepler> mine went to x1
[19:45:29] <jepler> fairly quickly
[19:46:08] <les_w> actually I don't think it was in emc1...cam often makes repeated moves
[19:46:17] <les_w> zero length
[19:46:46] <jepler> alex_joni_: were those the complete instructions?
[19:46:49] <alex_joni_> jepler: ok, then probably it does work ok in emc1
[19:47:00] <les_w> not totally sure
[19:47:01] <jepler> I got a feedrate error with: F100 / G1X1 / G1X1 / G1X0
[19:47:08] <alex_joni_> oh..
[19:47:09] <skunkworks> mdi g1x1f100
[19:47:11] <skunkworks> x1
[19:47:16] <skunkworks> then x0
[19:47:23] <alex_joni_> it barfs?
[19:47:31] <alex_joni_> skunkworks: or it works?
[19:47:32] <skunkworks> the second x1 move then zeros the feed
[19:47:38] <alex_joni_> ok, same error
[19:47:40] <les_w> Paul and I were hunting for zero length moves as we were trying to dicover the cause of stutter
[19:47:45] <les_w> found some
[19:47:53] <les_w> but they caused no problem
[19:47:58] <jepler> "cannot do g1 with zero feed rate"
[19:48:15] <skunkworks> les - it was only in mdi
[19:48:44] <les_w> this was just reapeated commands...like g1x1 g1x1
[19:48:56] <skunkworks> jepler - so emc1 does the same thing?
[19:49:04] <jepler> yes, it looks like emc1 has the same bug
[19:49:17] <les_w> never tested in MDI
[19:49:20] <alex_joni_> les_w: probably in auto it works, this is MDI related
[19:49:28] <les_w> right
[19:50:06] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc/src/emctask/emccanon.cc: bugfix for motion that goes nowhere clears feedrate
[19:50:13] <alex_joni_> jepler: not anymore (emc1 has the same bug)
[19:50:30] <les_w> haha
[19:52:09] <skunkworks> interesting. I guess no one noticed it before - not that it was a big deal - just annoying
[19:52:21] <les_w> yeah
[19:52:23] <jepler> I don't do many G1 moves in mdi
[19:52:28] <jepler> I don't do much mdi
[19:52:29] <les_w> me either
[19:52:58] <alex_joni_> anyways, nice of cradek to spot it
[19:52:58] <les_w> Just touchoffs and stuff
[19:53:01] <skunkworks> cradek tested it in auto and it worked
[19:53:03] <les_w> yeah.
[19:53:08] <cradek> it's a little disconcerting that our "stable" version has more bugs than our devel version
[19:53:28] <jepler> it means "devel" is doing something right?
[19:53:36] <alex_joni_> jepler: lol, yes :D
[19:53:37] <jepler> (except for the "getting released" part anyway)
[19:54:15] <alex_joni_> jepler: what axis should I get? 1.1 or latest?
[19:55:24] <les_w> It appears that if I have problems with the new spindle at high speeds just a motenc and fast box will help
[19:55:28] <les_w> stg is slow
[19:55:46] <les_w> motenc can do 8000 updates/sec
[19:55:53] <les_w> easily
[19:56:27] <les_w> we still had slight misblend spikes even sfter the fix though
[19:56:37] <les_w> It's just the are very small
[19:56:46] <les_w> compared to what they were
[19:57:16] <cncuser> hi alex_joni :) what do you thing about "Vorlaufanpassung" anstelle von "Geschwindigkeits Uebersteuerung"
[19:57:28] <cncuser> s/thing/think/
[19:58:33] <cncuser> hmm, but hmm, modification and override isnt quite the same
[19:58:40] <cncuser> ok, ill be back later
[19:59:03] <alex_joni_> cncuser: wasn't my idea Uebersteuerung
[19:59:13] <alex_joni_> read it somewhere, and I thought it's ok
[19:59:25] <alex_joni_> anpassung might be ok too, but it's not that conclusive
[19:59:33] <rayh> Either is large or long for that button!
[19:59:58] <alex_joni_> not your button ;) it's for AXIS
[20:00:05] <alex_joni_> on tkemc I have it shorter
[20:00:33] <rayh> Ah. When you get some time I need you to explain a bit about msgcat
[20:00:34] <cncuser> alex_joni: yeah, its ok. i think about it for a few hours now ;) and havent found a snappy german translation. but i think geschwindigkeit = speed doesnt quite meet the point. if its feed like feedrate it should be "vorlauf".
[20:07:31] <alex_joni_> vorlauf sounds strange..
[20:10:02] <cradek> brb
[20:13:04] <les_w> till just posted a movie of his new emc2 machine
[20:13:44] <alex_joni_> he did?
[20:13:51] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is anctious to see :D
[20:14:01] <alex_joni_> booting a doze box for the player :D
[20:14:07] <cradek_> url?
[20:14:30] <les_w> http://www.audiflitzer.de/mov/newmixer.mov
[20:14:35] <les_w> pretty neat
[20:15:02] <les_w> whizzing right along
[20:15:15] <les_w> looks like at least 0.1g
[20:17:18] <rayh> * rayh is jealous of quick connections to web.
[20:18:01] <cradek_> what's the purpose of the extra axis?
[20:22:54] <les_w> not sure!
[20:22:59] <les_w> weird
[20:25:49] <cradek_> maybe it can accel faster (to draw short things in X?)
[20:26:08] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[20:26:20] <rayh> ah a clue. Is this like a pantograph pen plotter.
[20:26:33] <cradek> yes it's a plotter
[20:26:42] <cradek> do you want a still of it?
[20:26:52] <rayh> yes.
[20:27:37] <cradek> can you receive dcc?
[20:27:44] <rayh> should be able to.
[20:28:06] <cradek> on its way...
[20:28:25] <cradek> yep looks like it's sending
[20:28:34] <cradek> it's 49k
[20:28:43] <rayh> thanks
[20:28:47] <cradek> welcome
[20:29:30] <rayh> If I had to guess it's purpose it is to prove that it can be done.
[20:29:39] <cradek> quite likely
[20:33:37] <rayh> Interesting.
[20:35:25] <Jacky^> re
[20:36:03] <alex_joni_> cradek: it's a mixed kinematics
[20:36:13] <alex_joni_> the short one is moving more quickly than the large X
[20:38:07] <cradek> yeah, I can sure see that
[20:38:27] <alex_joni_> so whenever the movement can be done by only the short one, that one's used
[20:38:52] <cradek> looks like the short one also "leads" the long one
[20:39:59] <cradek> too bad we can't see what it draws (I think it's drawing in the air)
[20:40:56] <SWPadnos> that' a good concept for an EDM machine
[20:40:57] <SWPadnos> that's
[20:46:09] <rayh> definitely want to keep non-trivial kinematics.
[20:46:59] <SWPadnos> absolutely - I think emc is the only (non-vendor-specific) machine controller with that capability
[20:47:21] <SWPadnos> OpenCNC may also do it, I guess
[20:47:58] <rayh> When I visited Till years ago he had a little 6" square hexapod paperweight on his desk.
[20:48:13] <rayh> He was running it with a very old 486 processor.
[20:48:24] <cradek> I have a robotic arm that I want emc to run someday
[20:49:09] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is so happy Till's machine is running emc2 ;)
[20:49:17] <alex_joni_> with STG2 you know ;)
[20:49:23] <cradek> yay
[20:49:28] <rayh> cradek: stacked rotaries?
[20:49:45] <cradek> rayh: I don't know much about it, but yes I think that's what you would call it
[20:50:05] <cradek> I don't remember where it came from
[20:50:13] <cradek> it has a terrible built-in controller that barely works
[20:50:16] <cradek> I think it's very old
[20:50:31] <rayh> How big a machine is this?
[20:51:09] <cradek> the base is maybe a foot square and it has a reach of maybe 1.5' radius
[20:51:30] <cradek> I think it's a "large toy" size
[20:51:48] <rayh> Sounds like a lot of fun.
[20:51:59] <cradek> yeah, I'll try to remember to take a pic of it
[20:52:54] <les_w> the mixed kinetics is a slick idea
[20:56:07] <K4ts_> hello!
[20:57:06] <Jacky^> hello K4ts_
[20:57:20] <Jacky^> how are U ? :P
[20:57:23] <alex_joni_> cradek: emc2 is a must for that
[21:01:19] <alex_joni_> do you guys know a way to snapshot more than one desktop ?
[21:01:58] <Jacky^> a collage ?
[21:02:31] <Jacky^> I use ksnapshot , for a single shot
[21:03:45] <alex_joni_> ok.. brb
[21:07:40] <alex_joni_> hi anders
[21:09:51] <rayh> http://www.isw.uni-stuttgart.de/personen/t_franit/modell/index.html
[21:10:38] <anonimasu> hey
[21:10:44] <anonimasu> how are you doing?
[21:11:04] <Jacky^> rayh: wow :D
[21:11:08] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu
[21:13:23] <Jacky^> nice here
[21:13:31] <rayh> catch you guys later.
[21:15:08] <Jacky^> the only issue Ive K4ts_ is tryng to kill me with pasta and fish ..
[21:15:21] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:15:22] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:15:25] <anonimasu> sounds nice
[21:15:32] <Jacky^> im not sure how much a long ill survive :(
[21:15:46] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/cena03/
[21:15:58] <Jacky^> thats the second round
[21:16:34] <Jacky^> i wonder if when ill came back ill have 20-30 kg more :(
[21:18:32] <Jacky^> ive no more space ..
[21:20:02] <Jacky^> anonimasu: and there ? whats up ?
[21:20:06] <Jacky^> working ?
[21:21:27] <anonimasu> not much
[21:21:32] <anonimasu> I am sick atm
[21:21:45] <Jacky^> bad weather ?
[21:22:01] <anonimasu> regular cold :)
[21:22:07] <Jacky^> here is raining since 22 dic without break :(
[21:22:26] <Jacky^> waiting for a nice sun day to get some nice photos
[21:22:28] <anonimasu> :/
[21:22:52] <Jacky^> I really prefer the snow to the rain
[21:23:07] <Jacky^> but .. we are to near to the sea for that
[21:23:26] <Jacky^> thats is called the city of sun ..
[21:23:29] <Jacky^> naples
[21:23:54] <Jacky^> you know, first af all pizza was born here
[21:23:58] <anonimasu> going to head to bed in a little bit
[21:24:00] <Jacky^> tomatoes too
[21:24:11] <Jacky^> ok.. :)
[21:24:36] <alex_joni_> yay it works..
[21:24:43] <alex_joni_> who wants to see a snapshot?
[21:24:51] <Jacky^> ready :)
[21:25:32] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what does?
[21:27:39] <alex_joni_> Jacky^: got the DCC request?
[21:28:07] <alex_joni_> anonimasu: it all does ;)
[21:28:12] <alex_joni_> AXIS & tkemc & emc2
[21:29:25] <Jacky^> uhm
[21:29:38] <Jacky^> damn win fw
[21:31:36] <Jacky^> :(
[21:32:14] <Imperator_> :-)
[21:32:25] <alex_joni_> oh.. and mini too :D
[21:32:53] <Imperator_> Hi Alex
[21:32:59] <alex_joni_> Hi martin
[21:33:03] <Jacky^> hello Imperator_
[21:33:05] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is running 3 GUI's
[21:33:21] <Imperator_> Hi Jacky
[21:34:23] <jepler> alex_joni_: neat
[21:34:49] <jepler> alex_joni_: you should start keystick, emctop.py and maybe mdi.py too
[21:35:14] <alex_joni_> lol.. mdi is no good, running auto now
[21:35:40] <Jacky^> :P
[21:35:41] <jepler> yeah, not much to do with mdi.py if you're actually running a program
[21:40:39] <alex_joni_> Imperator_: how are you Martin?
[21:41:11] <Imperator_> hm, a bit stressed
[21:41:20] <Imperator_> a lot to do at work
[21:41:35] <Imperator_> and you ?
[21:41:59] <alex_joni_> OK.. vacation still
[21:43:07] <Imperator_> you are lucky, i had only two days one before x-mas and one afterwards
[21:43:24] <alex_joni_> :(
[21:43:26] <alex_joni_> too bad
[21:43:42] <Imperator_> thats live
[21:45:48] <Imperator_> some news ?
[21:45:53] <Jacky^> Imperator_: sometime the stress help peoples to go on
[21:45:55] <Jacky^> :)
[21:46:08] <Imperator_> :-)
[21:46:13] <Jacky^> I personally prefer a clean cut ..
[21:46:35] <Jacky^> I will start in 15 jan again
[21:46:53] <Jacky^> I taked 1 mounth :P
[21:46:55] <Jacky^> a lot
[21:47:12] <Jacky^> but in august I was working ..
[21:47:16] <Jacky^> all the summer
[21:47:21] <alex_joni_> http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/emcstuff/interfaces/
[21:47:25] <alex_joni_> feast your eyes :D
[21:47:40] <jepler> three days? Luxury! All my employer gives is one day (in this case, the monday after christmas)
[21:47:45] <jepler> plus one more day for new year's
[21:48:01] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ had off since the 23rd
[21:48:08] <alex_joni_> till on the 8th.Jan
[21:48:16] <Jacky^> hehe alex_joni_ cool
[21:48:26] <SWPadnos> if only the numbers were the same ;)
[21:48:30] <Jacky^> really nice :)
[21:48:31] <Imperator_> cool
[21:48:37] <cradek> alex_joni_: run emctop too
[21:48:43] <Jacky^> the only thing I dont like is the wm :(
[21:48:45] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: should have been.. didn't check
[21:49:01] <Jacky^> when youll try Ion3 ? :P
[21:49:06] <SWPadnos> almost, but not quite (X looks to be the same)
[21:49:21] <alex_joni_> X&Z
[21:49:27] <alex_joni_> only Y was moving I think
[21:49:32] <cradek> I think those are the biggest window titlebars I've ever seen
[21:49:32] <alex_joni_> well AXIS is the main GUI
[21:49:32] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ is playng with ion3 and his laptop a bit ..
[21:49:40] <Jacky^> its cooool :D
[21:49:44] <alex_joni_> the others get it from NML
[21:49:48] <alex_joni_> cradek: shush :D
[21:49:49] <Jacky^> great
[21:49:56] <picnet> hi folks
[21:49:56] <Jacky^> :))
[21:50:06] <cradek> they're all polling - it's no surprise they all show slightly different numbers
[21:50:19] <Imperator_> Hi Steven, have you done some programming on the FPGA Software for the Mesanet card ?
[21:50:20] <alex_joni_> and the screenshot is not momentarely
[21:50:35] <alex_joni_> not done momentarely I think
[21:50:45] <SWPadnos> Imperator_, nope - though I finally installed it into my EMC machine :)
[21:50:47] <alex_joni_> ok.. done with emc2 for today..
[21:51:01] <alex_joni_> booting a doze to see Till's movie ;)
[21:51:14] <jepler> alex_joni: you should have tried mplayer .. it played just fine in my linux
[21:51:15] <cradek> it plays fine in mplayer...
[21:51:34] <Jacky^> wow mplayer rocks
[21:51:37] <Jacky^> :D
[21:52:08] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: ah, ok. I have changed some signals on the pins, so that the counters are running with my hardware. But the DAC is still not implementaded
[21:52:10] <cradek> jepler: I wonder if there is supposed to be sound
[21:52:21] <Jacky^> I tried ti take a video with my new camera, 3 sec: 7.5 mb O_O
[21:52:28] <picnet> vlc is also nice.
[21:52:37] <SWPadnos> Well - I did finally decide to purchase a huge (expensive) FPGA/PCB development system, so I may be able to get some stuff done now
[21:52:40] <Jacky^> need o check settings ..
[21:52:43] <Jacky^> to
[21:52:51] <SWPadnos> (without having to learn eagle / vhdl / etc)
[21:53:35] <SWPadnos> I'll be able to output gerber files, parts lists, and vhdl or verilog source, but probably not editable eagle files
[21:54:05] <Jacky^> Imperator_: was you working on a homebuilt servo driver ?
[21:54:51] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: nice
[21:54:58] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: I agreed FPGA are ice
[21:55:04] <SWPadnos> should be, for $12000 :)
[21:55:07] <Imperator_> Jacky^: yes, based on the Mesa card
[21:55:15] <Jacky^> Imperator_: any luck ?
[21:55:23] <Imperator_> you want to do a bigger project
[21:55:47] <Jacky^> luck/progress ..
[21:56:08] <Imperator_> Jacky^: the DAC is still not running
[21:56:46] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: are you programming FPGAs at work ?
[21:56:55] <SWPadnos> I expect to, yes
[21:57:18] <Imperator_> ok
[21:57:36] <SWPadnos> the nice thing about the system I bought is that it's vendor-neutral
[21:57:49] <Imperator_> maybe i have to make a smal developer board, with some switches and leds, to test some simple things
[21:57:53] <SWPadnos> I can retarget the designs to Xilinx, Altera, Actel, Lattice, Atmel, etc
[21:58:09] <Imperator_> nice
[21:58:24] <SWPadnos> do you have flash player available?
[21:58:41] <Imperator_> and if you are changing the PCB layout, it changes the software automaticaly
[21:58:48] <Imperator_> jep
[21:58:59] <SWPadnos> yes - I can swap pins while routing, and have the FPGA automatically updated
[21:59:37] <SWPadnos> one sec - I'll get you the URL of one of the coolest features ;)
[21:59:53] <alex_joni_> cradek: there's a new bug already :(
[21:59:54] <Imperator_> nice stuff, but for smaler projects eagle is perfect ! Your tool is for a proffesional user
[22:01:13] <SWPadnos> http://www.altium.com/Evaluate/DEMOcenter/AltiumDesigner60/EnhancedJTAGDeviceViewer/
[22:01:17] <cradek> alex_joni_: ??
[22:01:21] <SWPadnos> click on "view Demo"
[22:01:54] <alex_joni_> D stuff on G51
[22:02:13] <cradek> I don't know what you're talking about...
[22:02:22] <alex_joni_> #106744
[22:02:42] <alex_joni_> G41.. I keep mixing that up :)
[22:03:51] <jepler> how do I go to a SF bug report by number?
[22:03:59] <alex_joni_> hang on
[22:04:01] <cradek> that number is too low
[22:04:12] <alex_joni_> jepler: you go to another one and change the number
[22:04:25] <alex_joni_> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106744&aid=1396537&group_id=6744
[22:04:29] <alex_joni_> that's from the mail I got
[22:04:41] <jepler> "Cutter Gouging vs D word requires G41/G42 errors"
[22:04:43] <jepler> this one?
[22:04:50] <cradek> oh that's just an axis bug
[22:04:57] <alex_joni_> right.. is it?
[22:04:59] <jepler> I've fixed that in the HEAD of AXIS now
[22:05:05] <alex_joni_> cool ;)
[22:05:18] <alex_joni_> DING DING!
[22:05:36] <jepler> now I think that axis+emc2 will give the correct error text (the same one shown by tkemc when running the program)
[22:05:36] <cradek> it'll be fixed in 1.1.1 (sigh)
[22:05:56] <jepler> cradek: will it? I'm not sure about putting this fix I made in 1.1.1.
[22:06:08] <cradek> well one way or another, we'll fix the error messages...
[22:06:21] <SWPadnos> DING DING!
[22:06:28] <jepler> I kinda decided to do nothing in 1.1
[22:06:40] <cradek> ok...
[22:06:50] <jepler> but because of the other bug (scrollbars) I do think we need to do 1.1.1.
[22:07:00] <jepler> "axis takes your X server with it" seems kinda bad
[22:07:06] <cradek> yeah, ouch
[22:07:13] <alex_joni_> jepler: how about making the fixes and release 1.1 again :D
[22:07:16] <SWPadnos> he responded that ctrl-alt-backspace did work
[22:07:19] <alex_joni_> lol..
[22:07:22] <SWPadnos> at least one time
[22:07:24] <cradek> jepler: I guess it is rc1 for a reason
[22:07:32] <alex_joni_> it was..
[22:07:58] <jepler> cradek: no, this was axis 1.1 final .. or do you mean we'd do a 1.1.1rc1?
[22:08:04] <alex_joni_> I hate when this happens..
[22:08:07] <cradek> argh, I don't know
[22:08:37] <cradek> alex_joni_: I don't think we should call a different version also 1.1
[22:08:51] <alex_joni_> cradek: I was only kidding
[22:08:55] <cradek> alex_joni_: ah
[22:09:14] <cradek> alex_joni_: if nobody had installed it yet, I'd say we should do that and not tell anyone... but too late.
[22:09:16] <alex_joni_> cvs can't handle the same tag more than once
[22:09:24] <alex_joni_> I didn't install it..
[22:11:12] <alex_joni_> allrighty.. Radar calling ;)
[22:11:24] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is off to watch some more M.A.S.H.
[22:12:23] <alex_joni_> later..
[22:18:16] <cncuser> back
[22:41:58] <K4ts_> les_w: you around'
[22:42:00] <K4ts_> ?
[23:02:40] <Jacky^> hey A-L-P-H-A
[23:03:21] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[23:03:28] <Jacky^> whats up ?
[23:04:10] <A-L-P-H-A> trying to figure out how to copy and php object to another php object... I'm relearning OO programming
[23:04:36] <Jacky^> uh .. you know whats the best OO language ?
[23:04:51] <A-L-P-H-A> evreyone has their own choices.
[23:05:00] <Jacky^> yeah, true
[23:05:08] <Jacky^> but what the best OO language ? :P
[23:05:57] <Jacky^> I meant the Language where anything is an object :)
[23:06:35] <Jacky^> do not google ! :P
[23:07:33] <Jacky^> php is nice, but older ..
[23:07:39] <Jacky^> obsolete
[23:07:53] <Jacky^> you need a powerful Language :P
[23:08:15] <les_w> Was playing trivial pursuit on paltalk.
[23:08:18] <les_w> fun
[23:08:23] <Jacky^> hey les_w
[23:08:28] <les_w> hi jacky
[23:08:38] <Jacky^> A-L-P-H-A: try RUBY
[23:08:40] <Jacky^> :)
[23:09:10] <les_w> oops another game...bbl!!!
[23:09:26] <Jacky^> :D
[23:09:40] <K4ts_> les_w: please send me your exact address in email adi_benedetto@libero.it
[23:09:55] <Jacky^> yeah
[23:10:08] <Jacky^> les_w: please, send the adress :-)
[23:13:56] <SWPadnos> Jacky^, try Lisp ;)
[23:14:12] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: good too :)
[23:14:30] <SWPadnos> I didn't say it was good :)
[23:14:34] <SWPadnos> just OO
[23:14:44] <Jacky^> as much as Ruby ?
[23:14:58] <Jacky^> in Ruby all* is an object
[23:15:02] <cradek> LISP is not OO in the modern sense
[23:16:28] <Jacky^> I just tried to test 3 lines of Ruby code ..
[23:16:38] <Jacky^> im entusiast :)
[23:17:01] <SWPadnos> LISP makes no sense, so that fits
[23:17:13] <Jacky^> equivalent C are 77 lines ..
[23:17:26] <Jacky^> to do xactly the same thing
[23:17:27] <dmessier> hello all... any one know of a command line pdf to tiff converter??
[23:17:37] <SWPadnos> imagemagick
[23:17:52] <SWPadnos> I think it uses ghostscript to render the pdf pages
[23:18:06] <dmessier> command line example available???
[23:18:24] <cradek> pdf2ps | pstopnm | pnmtotiff
[23:19:11] <SWPadnos> or convert pdffile[pagenumber] file.tiff
[23:19:24] <cradek> SWPadnos: makes no sense?
[23:19:24] <dmessier> and these are part of imagemagick??
[23:19:36] <SWPadnos> convert is the imagemagick command-line tool
[23:19:42] <SWPadnos> ah
[23:19:44] <SWPadnos> LISP
[23:19:54] <cradek> pdf2ps is part of ghostscript
[23:20:01] <cradek> the rest are part of netpbm
[23:20:23] <dmessier> and these are apt gettable??
[23:20:26] <SWPadnos> ok. can it do single pages? (that's what the brackets are for witn imagemagick)
[23:20:29] <cradek> no idea
[23:20:30] <SWPadnos> with
[23:21:17] <SWPadnos> yes - apt-get should work with both imagemagick and ghostscript (and the pbmtools, but I'm not sure if that's the package name)
[23:21:20] <A-L-P-H-A> back
[23:21:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I've looked at ruby.
[23:21:28] <cradek> netpbm
[23:21:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't mind it.
[23:21:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I jsut don't like the fact that it's not wide spread enough to be useful for me as a developer.
[23:21:43] <Jacky^> A-L-P-H-A: dont you like it ?
[23:22:10] <Jacky^> oh .. ok :)
[23:22:10] <A-L-P-H-A> if my client already has hosting, I'm pretty sure the hosting provider will have php... but it probably won't have ruby.
[23:22:15] <A-L-P-H-A> [mine does]
[23:22:18] <A-L-P-H-A> www.textdrive.com
[23:22:44] <Jacky^> yeah.. meadiwiky is the most popoular wiky, but not the better :P
[23:23:03] <Jacky^> think at moin for example ..
[23:23:04] <A-L-P-H-A> hp rocks!
[23:23:07] <Jacky^> heheh
[23:23:12] <Jacky^> :D
[23:23:26] <A-L-P-H-A> HP = Hewett Packard... or however you spell it.
[23:23:36] <Jacky^> most popoular doesnt mean the better
[23:23:41] <A-L-P-H-A> dead ipod, 6 months old... serial number isn't in the system. But HP will replace it for me!
[23:23:44] <A-L-P-H-A> SWEET!
[23:23:49] <Jacky^> :-)
[23:23:55] <A-L-P-H-A> Apple, eat shit and die... as apple has a 90 day warrantee.
[23:23:58] <dmessier> slick
[23:24:27] <cradek> it's silly to talk about what the "best" language is
[23:24:41] <dmessier> 90 seconds or 90 feet whichever comes first
[23:24:47] <Jacky^> I agreed that Ruby is young and it have not too much libs as Python yet
[23:25:11] <Jacky^> but its just a wonderful Language for me :)
[23:25:16] <A-L-P-H-A> python, perl, php, ruby... they all do the same shit...
[23:25:19] <Jacky^> just genial
[23:25:34] <A-L-P-H-A> just that php is usually the most easily preinstalled script for webhosting.
[23:25:45] <Jacky^> A-L-P-H-A: no. not the same thing
[23:26:04] <Jacky^> why you need to add a ; at the end of line ?
[23:26:08] <A-L-P-H-A> Jacky^, I use the language to make money... if I can't make money with it, I can't be bothered with it.
[23:26:21] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: you talk like web hosting is the only application - I don't think Jacky^ asked about web hosting
[23:26:22] <Jacky^> if you forget it an intelligent Language should do it for you :)
[23:26:36] <Jacky^> it depend on how much intelligent is ..
[23:26:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Jacky^, I'm used to adding ; at the end of lines... good form, and I've been programming for years in C, C++, so they require it as well.
[23:26:53] <Jacky^> thats ok :)
[23:27:15] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek... I only need to develope webapps... if I didn't... I'd just RAD with delphi. Nice, simple, easy, fast enough language.
[23:27:25] <Jacky^> I accept your piont of view
[23:27:36] <Jacky^> point
[23:27:42] <A-L-P-H-A> np.
[23:27:47] <Jacky^> :)
[23:27:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I really really like ruby. just that I can't use it to make money...
[23:28:05] <SWPadnos> it depends more on whether the intelligence does what you actually wanted to do
[23:28:12] <SWPadnos> even though you forgot
[23:28:27] <Jacky^> I think Ruby woulde most popoular
[23:28:33] <Jacky^> to become really great
[23:28:46] <Jacky^> but I think it is in the right direction
[23:29:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Jacky^, ruby on rails? or Ruby?
[23:29:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm talking Ruby on Rails.
[23:29:16] <Jacky^> of course, im talking as a Ruby fan
[23:29:38] <Jacky^> whats the difference ?
[23:29:42] <Jacky^> sorry ..
[23:30:24] <A-L-P-H-A> ruby is the language... ruby on rails it the extension package that makes ruby.
[23:30:36] <A-L-P-H-A> just php is the language, and cake does the same thing as ROR.
[23:30:49] <A-L-P-H-A> 'cake' is another package addon, that makes PHP does what ROR does.
[23:30:57] <Jacky^> uhm
[23:31:03] <A-L-P-H-A> 'cake' is still premodial.
[23:31:15] <Jacky^> I just dont like PHP for a lot of reason
[23:31:25] <Jacky^> in first, is bad sintax
[23:31:31] <Jacky^> his
[23:31:52] <A-L-P-H-A> Jacky^, you programmed any other languages before ruby?
[23:32:14] <Jacky^> yeah, just played with Delpi for windows
[23:32:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not saying it's great... I'm just saying I understand php... as it's supposed to not be a leap for old programmers.
[23:32:32] <Jacky^> oh.. understood
[23:33:05] <Jacky^> well, the world of developers is not static
[23:33:09] <A-L-P-H-A> if one was to start a new language, from strach, not caring about old programmers... then they'd do it like ruby. repeat 5 [do whatever]
[23:33:32] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[23:33:53] <A-L-P-H-A> no, but your largest adoption base is programmers... new people aren't going to touch what's new... as they'd never get any help from more experienced users.
[23:34:01] <Jacky^> first time I used Debian it tooke 1 week just to figure out my sound card :(��
[23:34:13] <Jacky^> now, it have no secrets for me
[23:34:24] <Jacky^> thats the progress
[23:34:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I still haven't figured out my 3head monitor setup for ubuntu... I got 3 monitors working, but I can't set up my 3d drivers.
[23:34:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't live without multiple monitiors now.
[23:35:25] <Jacky^> dou you spend many time in compilations ?
[23:36:18] <Jacky^> I just used dual head for 2 mouths
[23:36:33] <A-L-P-H-A> mouths?
[23:36:38] <A-L-P-H-A> boxes?
[23:36:40] <Jacky^> mounths
[23:36:45] <A-L-P-H-A> months?
[23:36:53] <Jacky^> :(
[23:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> :) np
[23:37:02] <A-L-P-H-A> I love it.
[23:37:03] <Jacky^> 4 weeks
[23:37:05] <Jacky^> hahaha
[23:37:07] <Jacky^> :)
[23:37:07] <dmessier> you win A
[23:37:27] <A-L-P-H-A> one monitor is IM chat clients... the other is the editor window, and the third is the result / reference page.
[23:37:37] <Jacky^> ouch
[23:37:49] <dmessier> slick
[23:37:56] <A-L-P-H-A> Now... once you figure out that you can play a movie on another window, your productivity goes to the toilet.
[23:38:09] <Jacky^> your PC station should look like houston nasa station :P
[23:38:24] <Jacky^> I just use virtual desktop on 19 " LCD monitor
[23:38:30] <Jacky^> are nough for me :)
[23:38:44] <jtr_> jtr_ is now known as jtr
[23:39:07] <A-L-P-H-A> you say that... until you've tried multiple monitors...
[23:39:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I couldn't go back.
[23:39:10] <Jacky^> A-L-P-H-A: nice
[23:39:44] <Jacky^> no.. I really dont think Ill never try them
[23:39:55] <Jacky^> too hard for me
[23:40:06] <Jacky^> I suffer with head moviments
[23:40:31] <Jacky^> Id like to find a wayto talk to pc
[23:40:48] <Jacky^> vocal commands
[23:41:05] <A-L-P-H-A> dragon naturally speaking works well.
[23:41:08] <cncuser> use via voice
[23:41:14] <A-L-P-H-A> but I think he's onlinux.
[23:41:19] <A-L-P-H-A> so I don't know what's out there for linux.
[23:41:19] <Jacky^> I tried something
[23:41:44] <cncuser> jacky: if you run linux, try to get a old redhat cdrom, there was a really good working free viavoice edition includet. right now its pay only i think.
[23:42:23] <Jacky^> uhm.. no
[23:42:32] <Jacky^> Im in love with Debian
[23:42:48] <cncuser> jacky: doesnt matte r:)
[23:42:59] <Jacky^> :D
[23:43:08] <Jacky^> in that case its ok :)
[23:43:14] <cncuser> jacky: i too dont own this cdromset anymore, i bought it 4 or 5 years ago ;)
[23:43:20] <anonimasu> heh
[23:43:25] <Jacky^> was IBM ?
[23:43:30] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is starting to hate debian more and more
[23:43:31] <Jacky^> viavoice ?
[23:43:44] <cncuser> jacky: yes
[23:43:58] <Jacky^> already tried then ..
[23:44:04] <cncuser> jacky: for a short time they had nice tools out there for linux. there marketing has changed
[23:44:06] <Jacky^> not so perfect
[23:44:20] <Jacky^> yeah, I know
[23:44:44] <alex_joni_> anonimasu: how so?
[23:45:11] <cncuser> jacky: it was the best then. and i think ibm really much money on speech recognition, alltough i know there is only a small part in the consumer products.
[23:45:32] <Jacky^> anonimasu: please, do not say it sayd screen not found !
[23:46:25] <anonimasu> alex_joni: apt is the name of what makes it suck..
[23:46:27] <Jacky^> I meant the x server ..
[23:46:27] <Jacky^> cncuser: yes, I agreed, propably the best and the latest :(
[23:46:38] <alex_joni_> anonimasu: how so?
[23:47:01] <anonimasu> try satisfying a dependency manually ;)
[23:47:10] <anonimasu> and install a package with some program that depends on it..
[23:47:23] <Jacky^> thats not hard at all
[23:47:30] <Jacky^> try the hell of RH
[23:47:44] <Jacky^> may only suse can be better
[23:47:50] <Jacky^> not sure ..
[23:48:00] <dmessier> rh bites for that
[23:48:02] <anonimasu> if you do force it there it'll bring you hell ;)
[23:48:14] <Jacky^> anonimasu: Linux is developed in a bazaae style
[23:48:18] <Jacky^> bazaar
[23:48:26] <Jacky^> thats is normal
[23:48:34] <anonimasu> Jacky^: you are way off.
[23:48:37] <Jacky^> you can get the soruce too
[23:48:47] <Jacky^> and compile all from yourself
[23:48:58] <anonimasu> sorry I need to go, gf is calling.
[23:48:59] <Jacky^> gentoo for example is cool
[23:49:01] <cncuser> hehe, distroposing :)
[23:49:02] <alex_joni_> anonimasu: http://jaqque.sbih.org/kplug/apt-pinning.html
[23:49:13] <Jacky^> but hom much time it take for anything ?
[23:49:35] <cncuser> puppy is the fastest ;)
[23:49:35] <Jacky^> slackware is cool too
[23:49:37] <anonimasu> alex_joni: also lots of stuff if _broken_
[23:49:44] <anonimasu> :)
[23:49:47] <Jacky^> puppy its nicee hehehe
[23:49:47] <anonimasu> well another day..
[23:50:10] <anonimasu> alex_joni: that dosent really help me with anything..
[23:50:14] <Jacky^> right some days ago I was writing in a forum
[23:50:16] <cncuser> debian is available on many many many plattforms
[23:50:27] <Jacky^> asking why, Debian site has never changed his look
[23:50:32] <anonimasu> well night
[23:50:44] <Jacky^> when you change something ? when it work bad .. right ?
[23:50:46] <cncuser> suse cones with the best preconfigured kde desktop
[23:50:54] <cncuser> well :)
[23:50:55] <Jacky^> anonimasu: G night
[23:50:58] <K4ts_> night
[23:51:11] <cncuser> theres the perfect distro for everything and everyone :)
[23:51:20] <Jacky^> yes
[23:52:30] <Jacky^> cncuser: im tryng to say to a lots of peoples theyre doing the right thing using windows
[23:52:52] <Jacky^> searching for the icons disapperead from desktop
[23:53:10] <Jacky^> and fighting to resize windows with the mouse :(
[23:53:17] <Jacky^> im loosing ..
[23:53:51] <cncuser> hehe
[23:53:55] <Jacky^> :P
[23:54:05] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ follow k4ts to the bed
[23:54:09] <Jacky^> night
[23:54:39] <cncuser> night
[23:54:41] <cncuser> late
[23:58:45] <jtr> got time for a cvs/sf question?
[23:59:09] <ajoni> ajoni is now known as alex_joni_
[23:59:22] <alex_joni_> jtr: shoot