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[00:00:26] <Jacky^> drive a truck from it to new zealand to get strawberry in december
[00:00:45] <Jacky^> cant we wait until june ?
[00:00:47] <Jacky^> hahaha
[00:01:59] <K4ts> http://www.capriweb.com/web/Itineraries/itinerary.php?lan=Ita&id=16
[00:03:01] <K4ts> I work here
[00:03:01] <Jacky^> K4ts: is prudent, shes not drive any car :D
[00:04:16] <K4ts> http://www.capriweb.com/web/Itineraries/itinerary.php?lan=Ita&id=13
[00:04:20] <K4ts> les_w: look!
[00:04:29] <les_w> looking
[00:04:40] <Jacky^> K4ts: I really dont like that tower
[00:04:55] <Jacky^> i prefer a 'normal' house :)
[00:05:13] <les_w> looks nice to me
[00:05:29] <les_w> Napoli is very nice
[00:05:35] <Jacky^> les_w: all japanese jobs there
[00:05:41] <les_w> ha
[00:05:58] <Jacky^> at least, in the area K4ts showed
[00:06:01] <K4ts> ma no quelllo è centro drezionale
[00:06:07] <Jacky^> yes
[00:06:13] <K4ts> clicca secondo url
[00:06:15] <K4ts> invece
[00:06:20] <K4ts> è foto del vomero
[00:06:46] <Jacky^> K4ts: I think I can zoom on youy house
[00:06:52] <robin_sz> our PM just sold us out to france ...
[00:06:58] <Jacky^> google earth :D
[00:07:00] <robin_sz> gave away 7bn GBP
[00:07:03] <robin_sz> :(
[00:07:09] <Jacky^> at 1 meter
[00:07:48] <Jacky^> robin_sz: mm
[00:09:15] <les_w> I can just see my driveway in terraserver
[00:10:07] <les_w> gee, no hairdresser cars parked there
[00:11:54] <Jacky^> boh..
[00:12:02] <Jacky^> ive really seen strange things
[00:12:39] <Jacky^> engineers are planning tilted buildings
[00:12:51] <Jacky^> tilted house
[00:13:00] <Jacky^> we are at this point
[00:13:07] <les_w> vesuvius can do that
[00:13:21] <Jacky^> les_w: what ?
[00:13:30] <les_w> the volcano
[00:13:32] <les_w> haha
[00:13:35] <Jacky^> :D
[00:14:19] <K4ts> I hope not
[00:14:24] <K4ts> :-(
[00:14:38] <K4ts> vesuvio sleep
[00:14:44] <Jacky^> K4ts: the earth isnt static
[00:14:52] <Jacky^> earth is dinamic
[00:15:04] <Jacky^> that why it move :)
[00:15:07] <Jacky^> sometime
[00:15:25] <K4ts> better Etna
[00:15:41] <K4ts> :-)
[00:15:52] <les_w> in sicily?
[00:15:58] <K4ts> yes
[00:15:59] <K`zan> 73 k4ts :-)
[00:16:09] <Jacky^> Etna is the biggest vulcan in EU
[00:16:14] <les_w> ah
[00:16:35] <Jacky^> but it is active
[00:16:46] <Jacky^> so.. probably not dangerous
[00:16:59] <K4ts> http://www.vesuvioinrete.it/
[00:16:59] <Jacky^> Vesuvio is sleeping since too much years
[00:17:02] <les_w> right no pressure builds
[00:17:17] <les_w> in etna
[00:17:23] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:18:52] <K4ts> http://www.vesuvioinrete.it/galleria/col55.jpg
[00:19:14] <K4ts> eruzione del 1944
[00:20:30] <les_w> and 79 ad
[00:20:43] <les_w> herculaneum and pompeii?
[00:20:57] <K4ts> yes
[00:21:41] <K4ts> 79 dC
[00:22:26] <les_w> I would like to see pompeii
[00:22:28] <K4ts> http://www.scavidipompei.it/scavi_oggi.asp
[00:22:35] <K4ts> ecco
[00:22:42] <les_w> I have seen many roman ruins in france
[00:25:25] <Jacky^> http://www.stallman.org/photos/italy/pompeii/pages/1.html
[00:25:32] <Jacky^> hehe who is that man ? :D
[00:25:40] <Jacky^> http://www.stallman.org/photos/italy/pompeii/index.html
[00:26:08] <les_w> you in pompeii?
[00:26:18] <Jacky^> doh, nahh
[00:26:32] <Jacky^> richard stallman
[00:26:56] <Jacky^> but he made few photos, not beautiful at all :/
[00:27:01] <Jacky^> eh K4ts ?
[00:27:04] <les_w> I thought not
[00:29:10] <les_w> I saw K4ts at palazzo vecchio I think
[00:29:25] <les_w> outside by the reproduction statue?
[00:29:34] <K4ts> beautiful belly
[00:29:42] <Jacky^> that was in Florence I think, not Naples
[00:30:01] <K4ts> :-)
[00:30:17] <K4ts> stallman
[00:30:22] <K4ts> ah ah
[00:30:25] <les_w> haha
[00:31:01] <K4ts> http://www.naples-city.info/napoli/palazzo_reale.htm
[00:31:09] <K4ts> palazzo reale
[00:31:22] <Jacky^> les_w: I can show you K4ts webcam
[00:31:28] <Jacky^> not sexy :D
[00:31:33] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:31:37] <Jacky^> http://www.campaniameteo.it/webcamnapoli2.asp
[00:32:04] <Jacky^> K4ts: the vomero
[00:32:26] <Jacky^> some house in the middle on the pic :)
[00:32:33] <les_w> dark!
[00:32:40] <les_w> dark here too now
[00:32:50] <Jacky^> les_w: I think is updated every 10 minuts
[00:33:02] <Jacky^> yeah, is night there
[00:33:09] <Jacky^> maybe raining too
[00:33:17] <K4ts> no
[00:33:18] <Jacky^> is raining there K4ts ?
[00:33:23] <Jacky^> oh, good :)
[00:33:25] <les_w> here it is very dark at night, because it is far away from cities
[00:33:26] <K4ts> ora no
[00:33:44] <les_w> when there is no moon it is like your eyes are closed
[00:33:49] <les_w> cannot see at all
[00:34:22] <Jacky^> les other webcams here:
http://www.campaniameteo.it/webcams.asp
[00:34:27] <K4ts> sigh les_w
[00:34:46] <Jacky^> K4ts: it seems youvent a good day today
[00:34:52] <Jacky^> seems gray
[00:35:20] <K4ts> insomma
[00:35:27] <K4ts> oggiè piovuto
[00:35:31] <les_w> reminds me...was trying to explain olber's parodox to some people today. They did not understand.
[00:35:52] <K4ts> olber?
[00:36:29] <les_w> why is the sky dark at night
[00:36:51] <les_w> http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/123/lecture-5/olbers.html
[00:37:55] <Jacky^> sigh, thats is nothing compared to what happened to me
[00:38:04] <K4ts> sigh englishhhhhhhhh
[00:38:13] <K4ts> mi ci vuole un anno per tradurre
[00:38:15] <K4ts> tutto
[00:38:22] <Jacky^> since many years, every night I was looking a star
[00:38:29] <les_w> if there are stars forever, thenanywhere you look you should see bright light...the sky would not be dark
[00:38:29] <Jacky^> a very nice star
[00:38:49] <Jacky^> the strange thins was, it alway was there, also raining
[00:39:10] <Jacky^> after a bit of time I discovered, it wanst a star
[00:39:16] <K4ts> ah ah
[00:39:17] <Jacky^> a damn satellite !
[00:39:20] <K4ts> era un faro
[00:39:24] <Jacky^> it disappoint me :(
[00:39:35] <Jacky^> K4ts: no, was a sat
[00:39:41] <Jacky^> :(
[00:40:01] <Jacky^> evening jmkasunich
[00:40:08] <les_w> jacky how do you say olber's paradox in italian?
[00:40:15] <jmkasunich> hi
[00:40:22] <les_w> hey john
[00:40:35] <Jacky^> les_w: no idea, I guess Olber its a name, so ..
[00:40:43] <les_w> paradox?
[00:40:49] <Jacky^> paradosso
[00:40:52] <Jacky^> colmo
[00:41:10] <les_w> paradosso de olber?
[00:41:18] <Jacky^> maybe ..
[00:41:22] <Jacky^> di*
[00:41:47] <Jacky^> found:
http://www.pd.astro.it/PlanetV/L27_00T.html
[00:42:32] <anonimasu> night all
[00:42:41] <Jacky^> G night anonimasu
[00:43:26] <K4ts> wowwwww
[00:43:32] <K4ts> ho risposto esattamente
[00:43:42] <Jacky^> ?
[00:43:53] <K4ts> tuo url
[00:43:58] <K4ts> c'è una veirfica
[00:43:59] <Jacky^> ah, il test
[00:44:01] <Jacky^> yes
[00:44:19] <K4ts> http://www.napoligold.com/coast/napoli/paesaggio/de11011.htm
[00:45:23] <Jacky^> K4ts: nice
[00:46:20] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[00:46:37] <K4ts> my dog sleep
[00:46:45] <les_w> my cat too
[00:46:51] <K4ts> for ever
[00:46:52] <Jacky^> lol
[00:46:55] <Jacky^> :)
[00:47:03] <Jacky^> how forever ?
[00:47:09] <les_w> my cat is 16 years old
[00:47:12] <K4ts> dorme continuamente
[00:47:26] <K4ts> si alza solo per farmi pipi a twerra
[00:47:28] <K4ts> ;_(
[00:47:37] <K4ts> :-(
[00:47:50] <Jacky^> les_w: K4ts saved a baby dog from sue died days ago
[00:47:51] <K4ts> come potrei far vedere la foto a les del mio cane?
[00:48:06] <Jacky^> found in her street
[00:48:44] <Jacky^> K4ts: uploading in some web space
[00:49:12] <les_w> oh too bad sorry
[00:49:16] <Jacky^> or send it to me i will upload it for you
[00:49:59] <K4ts> msn
[00:50:01] <K4ts> file
[00:50:53] <Jacky^> received, give me a sec. to upload ..
[00:50:55] <les_w> I must go to a restaurant for dinner now
[00:50:58] <les_w> bbiaw
[00:51:18] <Jacky^> les_w: nice;) have a good dinner
[00:52:10] <K4ts> bye
[00:52:40] <Jacky^> K4ts:
http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/noemi.jpg
[00:53:09] <K4ts> very beautiful
[00:56:23] <K4ts> night all
[00:56:42] <Jacky^> night K4ts
[00:57:32] <Jacky^> wow
[00:57:41] <Jacky^> time to play a bit around Ruby now :P
[00:57:45] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:58:42] <Jacky^> lets see.. Python libs are not usable from Ruby
[00:58:56] <Jacky^> C libs seems are ok, instead
[01:05:07] <Jacky^> robin_sz: have benn back arsenio lupen in uk ? O_O
[01:06:54] <Jacky^> doh, Henry Moore sculpture stolen
[01:07:14] <Jacky^> incredible
[01:17:17] <icee> in other news a large supply of bronze scrap came onto the market
[01:17:18] <icee> ;P
[01:17:32] <Jacky^> lol
[02:13:55] <Jacky^> ghghghg
[02:14:07] <Jacky^> Every year Great Britain imports 200,000 tons of foreign pork every year. But it also exports 200,000 tons of British pork. And if we all ate our own pork?
[02:14:13] <Jacky^> hehehe
[02:14:39] <Jacky^> http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2005/12/tomatoes_and_oxen_from_your_ow.html#comments
[02:14:51] <Jacky^> damn Grillo ! :D
[02:15:42] <Jacky^> And corn flakes in Geneva with corn from Argentina? And the pizza in Naples with Chinese tomatos? And the Genovese pesto with basil from Vietnam?
[02:15:46] <Jacky^> bauahahaha
[02:17:30] <les_w> good post
[02:17:41] <Jacky^> :D
[02:27:32] <Jacky^> les grillo is an incredible man
http://www.time.com/time/europe/hero2005/grillo.html
[02:28:15] <Jacky^> have been interviews from all tv around the world, like Cnn, but he cant get 5 minuts in a TV in his country
[02:28:18] <Jacky^> lol
[02:45:36] <Jacky^> this is funny too
http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2005/10/bill_the_fish_that_believes_ev.html#comments
[02:46:34] <Jacky^> bill gates visit in milan
[02:48:21] <les_w> our tv is garbage
[02:48:36] <les_w> hey lawrence
[02:49:02] <LawrenceG> hi les.... forgot to connect after logging on this afternoon....
[02:49:18] <LawrenceG> are all the problems of the world solved?
[02:49:33] <Jacky^> hi LawrenceG yes :)
[02:49:41] <LawrenceG> good work
[02:50:06] <les_w> Just relaxing and car shopping today. Rewiring the cnc on work days
[02:50:36] <les_w> it became more work as the fat wires for the more powerful spindle don't fit in the conduit
[02:50:36] <Jymmm> les_w What, no Spice Channel?
[02:50:55] <les_w> he
[02:51:23] <les_w> h
[02:51:32] <LawrenceG> les_w: I think you need a 4wd vw diesel beetle (may have to do a little custom work!)
[02:52:29] <les_w> I like diesels...that tractor I bought is so fuel efficient
[02:52:53] <les_w> it's my first diesel engine
[02:52:57] <Jacky^> les_w: what about GPL ?
[02:53:09] <Jacky^> do you use it there ?
[02:53:23] <les_w> gnu public liscense?
[02:53:28] <Jacky^> hehe
[02:53:37] <Jacky^> no.. i guess Gas Propane Linquid
[02:53:44] <Jacky^> maybe..
[02:53:46] <LawrenceG> I bought a beetle in 2003.... it gets 3X the mileage of the ram 1T dually... needles to say the truck is parked most of the time.... pisses the wife off :}
[02:54:21] <Jacky^> here GPL is cheaper
[02:54:29] <Jacky^> and ecologic too
[02:54:31] <les_w> used to have propane. Finally got natural gas...methane. It is horribly expensive right now though
[02:54:39] <les_w> for heat
[02:54:46] <Jacky^> expensive ? strange
[02:54:51] <les_w> a few cars use propane
[02:54:56] <les_w> but very few
[02:55:05] <Jacky^> here a lot ..
[02:55:09] <les_w> yes horribly expensive.
[02:55:21] <les_w> heat bills $2000/month
[02:55:33] <LawrenceG> cold here... just around freezing.... pond in yard has about 4mm of ice
[02:55:36] <Jacky^> abou 1k euro to get it for a car
[02:55:51] <les_w> and I have run out of dry wood for the big stoves I have
[02:55:52] <Jacky^> lowest year tax
[02:56:03] <Jacky^> 2x cheaper
[02:56:07] <les_w> snowing here lawrence
[02:56:55] <LawrenceG> les_w: better than ice.... I spent a winter in Atlanta and the ice storms really sucked
[02:57:16] <les_w> This is a temperate rain forest. firewood will not dry...ever. We need to finish that solar kiln.
[02:57:54] <les_w> yeah we had a minor one yesterday. Crews are out all over. I have power, but the neutral is bad.
[02:58:08] <les_w> 96 volts one leg, 135 on the other
[02:58:23] <LawrenceG> les_w: same here.... but I usually season wood for a couple of years.... down to about the last couple of cords that I cut in 2001
[02:58:43] <les_w> I studied kilning firewood
[02:59:03] <les_w> 6 days to 20% moisture at 180f!
[02:59:12] <Jymmm> les_w, why dont you dbl up your order this year?
[02:59:25] <les_w> should have
[02:59:36] <Jymmm> and the next year. then you'll be good in three years.
[02:59:37] <LawrenceG> I did dry some using a dehumidfier in the shed.... it worked very well and not a big power requirement
[02:59:45] <les_w> did not know that we would get ripped with gas prices
[03:00:29] <Jacky^> les_w: how many mounths of winter there ?
[03:00:39] <les_w> yeah, I have a couple cords of damp wood
[03:00:43] <LawrenceG> I would love to figure out a clean way to burn tires... lots of energy in them and people will pay you to take them!
[03:00:55] <Jymmm> les_w: If you double up your order this week, then do the same next year. YOu'll be two years out of nice dry wood in the third year.
[03:01:24] <Jacky^> ouch 3 year before ?
[03:01:36] <les_w> jacky: even though this is south, it is cold due to the altitude. it is cold from late october to may
[03:01:54] <Jacky^> ouch :(
[03:02:21] <les_w> look:
[03:02:28] <les_w> http://www.ils.unc.edu/parkproject/webcam/weather.html
[03:03:49] <les_w> -5c right now on the mountain tops
[03:04:09] <les_w> often -15
[03:04:11] <Jacky^> mmm .. thats is near to be ice
[03:04:23] <Jacky^> no, its ice
[03:04:30] <Jacky^> :/
[03:04:32] <les_w> well, it is snowing now!
[03:04:39] <Jacky^> :)
[03:05:23] <Jacky^> are this winter more cold by others ago ?
[03:05:28] <les_w> But I grew up in Florida. Never very cold there.
[03:05:38] <les_w> This will be a cold winter I think
[03:06:59] <les_w> Lawrence is much much further north in Canada, but it is probably warmer there than here, due to the japan current
[03:07:47] <Jacky^> strange weather
[03:08:22] <Jacky^> here a lot of peoples have bought things like this
http://www.alfredoneri.com/catalogo_Alfatermocamini.htm
[03:08:27] <Jacky^> termocamino
[03:08:36] <les_w> But I try to burn wood for heat
[03:09:23] <les_w> I have two big stoves like that
[03:09:25] <les_w> but
[03:09:32] <Jymmm> les_w: Silly question... but can't you 'smoke' the wood dry?
[03:09:37] <les_w> it takes about 100 kilos a day
[03:09:47] <les_w> and I have run out of dry wood
[03:09:52] <Jacky^> yeah .. always on
[03:10:09] <Jacky^> we pay about E. 15 /100 kg of wood
[03:10:24] <les_w> jymmm, green wood will burn at the ratio of one green log to two dry ones
[03:10:53] <wb9mjn> Hi Les, I thought I heard the most energy efficient wood drying method is with a large microwave oven....
[03:11:09] <les_w> jacky for us we buy by the cord. it is about 2000 kg, and costs $300
[03:11:28] <les_w> wb9 yeah that would be good
[03:11:49] <Jymmm> les_w there ya go... find a radar station
[03:11:57] <les_w> I have dried small samples for testing in the microwave
[03:12:47] <les_w> but solar is the way
[03:13:06] <les_w> drew the kiln up in autocad but we haven't built it yet
[03:13:34] <les_w> we get about 500w/meter^2 in the winter
[03:13:45] <les_w> when it's sunny
[03:14:57] <wb9mjn> Yep, when its sunny here, down to 10 F, heater does not come on all day...
[03:15:31] <les_w> today the peak solar radiation was 175 watts/meter^2 due to cirrostratus
[03:15:50] <wb9mjn> When its overcast, and windy, its on a few times an hour even at 32....
[03:15:55] <les_w> not enough to dry things much
[03:16:14] <les_w> we get 1000 watts in the summer
[03:17:00] <wb9mjn> I think the problem is getting the energy down in the wood....cellulose tends to heat sink and thats why thermal methods are not as energy efficient...
[03:17:22] <les_w> right
[03:17:40] <les_w> the stoves I have are prob horribly ineficient
[03:18:02] <les_w> even though they have catalytic convertoers and blowers
[03:18:11] <les_w> converters
[03:18:15] <wb9mjn> No,,,for wood drying....
[03:18:32] <les_w> oh
[03:18:59] <wb9mjn> The energy from the RF goes right into the water, as cellulose is a relitvely good dielectric...
[03:19:10] <les_w> well, we do lumber milling and drying...haveRF moisture meters and stuff
[03:20:22] <les_w> longitudinally I think it is an error function moisture distribution
[03:20:32] <les_w> firewood is a bit different
[03:20:39] <les_w> dries out the ends
[03:20:56] <les_w> only need to get below fiber saturation also
[03:21:01] <les_w> about 25%
[03:21:08] <wb9mjn> Also, you might look into vacumm treatment, to decrease the boiling point of water...
[03:21:17] <les_w> yup
[03:22:17] <wb9mjn> Yep...you need a vacumm microwave oven big enough for logs, hi...
[03:22:22] <les_w> I start to wonder when dry wood is complete unobtainium around here
[03:22:36] <les_w> seems like an opportunity huh
[03:23:20] <wb9mjn> Well...lots of people working on that for a while...do a google search......
[03:23:27] <LawrenceG> around here, the guys selling firewodd cut it in the morning and deleiver it in the afternoon..... one needsto get itat least a year in advance
[03:23:46] <Jacky^> first time I see this:
http://www.pellet.org/about.html
[03:23:49] <LawrenceG> boy fingers really fsked that one up }
[03:24:08] <wb9mjn> Think I ve seen one version the length of a football field, not vacumm though...
[03:24:12] <les_w> I did search. A few enterprising people are converting seagoing coantainers into solar firewood kilns
[03:24:13] <Jacky^> I guess arent cheap
[03:24:35] <les_w> and selling kiln dried wood in very damp climate areas
[03:25:18] <les_w> jacky, pellet stoves are good but pellets cost too much
[03:25:21] <wb9mjn> I mean look up microwave wood drying...
[03:25:24] <les_w> they also use corn
[03:25:27] <Jacky^> infact ..
[03:25:43] <Jacky^> The cost of pellet fuel may depend on the geographic region where it is sold, and the current season.
[03:25:57] <Jacky^> they sayd ..
[03:26:04] <les_w> wb9 I will look into that
[03:26:35] <les_w> I have to remember a 1 kW magnetron microwave oven is 30 bucks
[03:27:39] <les_w> let's see what is the latent heat of water?
[03:27:50] <les_w> 84 cal/gram?
[03:27:57] <les_w> 4.4 joules?
[03:28:00] <les_w> forgot
[03:28:18] <jmk_away> jmk_away is now known as jmkasunich
[03:28:28] <wb9mjn> They had hundreds of magnetrons on that big dryer...
[03:29:54] <les_w> ok 2300 kJ/kg
[03:30:12] <les_w> and wet wood is about 60% MC
[03:30:19] <Jymmm> les_w any shipping docks/ports in your area?
[03:30:33] <les_w> let's say half
[03:30:38] <jmkasunich> I bet you use more energy removing the moisture than you get burning the wood
[03:30:47] <les_w> so 2000 kg/cord
[03:31:37] <les_w> 4.6 MJ/cord
[03:31:42] <les_w> yikes
[03:31:56] <wb9mjn> Might be more enegy efficient to ship the wood to arizona, sit it there for a month, and ship it back...
[03:31:57] <les_w> 4.6 million watt seconds
[03:32:12] <les_w> haha yeah
[03:32:21] <Jymmm> les_w there's lots of BLM land in AZ
[03:32:45] <les_w> wood would dry real good there.
[03:32:58] <les_w> we need to dig a tunnel to you
[03:33:06] <les_w> a straight line
[03:33:07] <Jymmm> les_w well, what can you get a cord for DRY wood in .ga ?
[03:33:21] <les_w> so you fall half way
[03:33:38] <les_w> jymmm can't get it at all
[03:33:59] <Jymmm> les_w but is there a demand for it? Like $400/cord ?
[03:34:10] <les_w> wet is $300
[03:34:30] <Jymmm> and dry?
[03:34:47] <les_w> is not available at all
[03:34:51] <les_w> not locally
[03:34:56] <les_w> anyway
[03:35:11] <Jymmm> ok, so whats the cubic footage of a shipping contianer?
[03:35:33] <les_w> uh not sure
[03:35:45] <Jymmm> 2261 cubic feet
[03:35:45] <les_w> 20x40x something
[03:35:50] <Jymmm> for a 40' er
[03:36:09] <Jymmm> This 40' container was 39'4" long, 7'6" tall, and 7'8" wide inside. The container holds 2261 cubic feet of area (despite the figures displayed on the outside). That is about 84 cubic yards. In the business, ships are divided into 20' container units known as TEU (twenty foot equivalent units).
[03:37:04] <les_w> What I saw was a few using old refrigerated insulated ones
[03:37:09] <Jymmm> ~$1950 for a 40 footer
[03:37:20] <Jymmm> aluminum or steel
[03:37:21] <les_w> cut off the top and put glass or plastic collectors
[03:37:36] <les_w> some just painted em black and that's all
[03:37:43] <Jymmm> les_w:
http://www.cockeyed.com/inside/container/container.html
[03:39:33] <les_w> neat site!
[03:39:58] <Jymmm> ok, so how many cubic feet in a cord?
[03:40:09] <les_w> let's see
[03:40:19] <Jymmm> 128
[03:40:20] <les_w> 4x4x8
[03:40:30] <les_w> 128
[03:40:39] <les_w> 2000 kg
[03:40:42] <les_w> about
[03:40:47] <les_w> dry
[03:41:45] <Jymmm> ok, so a 40' container cna hold about 17 cords @ $400/cord = $7065.625
[03:41:46] <les_w> perhaps 4000 kg wet
[03:42:12] <Jymmm> packed well
[03:42:42] <les_w> 34000 kg dry....
[03:42:58] <Jymmm> you'ldd need about 6 container to make it worthwhile
[03:43:17] <les_w> to dry or transport?
[03:43:24] <Jymmm> yes
[03:43:27] <les_w> haha
[03:43:34] <Jymmm> ga to az to ga sell
[03:44:03] <wb9mjn> Might only need to go eastern NM...
[03:44:14] <Jymmm> yeah, or even tx
[03:44:15] <wb9mjn> Just to get into the rain-shadow of the Rockies...
[03:44:17] <les_w> oooh...too much oil to haul wood to save oil
[03:44:31] <les_w> wb9 yeah
[03:44:53] <Jymmm> make is water tight and fill with alcohol
[03:45:05] <Jymmm> still?!
[03:45:07] <Jymmm> stile
[03:45:10] <les_w> hahaha
[03:45:50] <les_w> I'll take a hot box in the sun with 1000w/meter^2 shining on it
[03:47:01] <Jymmm> what about electrical solar panels?
[03:47:30] <wb9mjn> Not as efficient as direct thermal collection...
[03:47:34] <les_w> I am using those for the circulation fans in my kiln design
[03:47:55] <wb9mjn> But can you get the thermal collected into the wood as efficient ?
[03:48:13] <les_w> so I can put the thing way out away from stuff
[03:49:20] <les_w> wb9....yeah. you can put black things in there, but most organic stuff has an emissivity of about 0.9 even if it looks light in visible range
[03:50:00] <les_w> but yes it is very efficient
[03:51:02] <les_w> summer temps of 150 + are common in solar kilns even thoughthey are vented
[03:51:23] <les_w> can evaporate hundreds of ounds of wataer a day
[03:51:27] <les_w> water
[03:52:02] <les_w> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Solar_Kiln_Designs_4.html
[03:54:50] <Jacky^> Night
[03:55:10] <les_w> neat huh? Multiple use too. Dry lumber and firewood in the summer. Use as greenhouse to grow vegetables in winter!
[03:55:15] <les_w> night jacky
[03:55:23] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[03:55:26] <Jacky^afk> night all
[03:56:03] <Jymmm> the portable one seem sinteresting.
[03:56:08] <Jymmm> less labor
[03:56:10] <les_w> yeah
[03:56:23] <Jymmm> less labor then loading/unloading 17 cords
[03:56:43] <les_w> I have tractortoy. no problem.
[03:56:55] <Jymmm> does it stack wood too?
[03:58:04] <les_w> kinda haha
[03:58:13] <les_w> if you are good with the forks
[03:58:47] <Jymmm> les_w fiberglass panels double paned
[03:59:11] <les_w> BTW forest products research lab said random piles dry as fast as neatly stacked
[03:59:43] <Jymmm> oh, I meant dor the amount you can process per container.
[04:00:16] <les_w> you would need a bunch of them
[04:00:26] <les_w> for a commercial operation
[04:00:45] <les_w> the firewood processors to from 1 to 4 cords per hour
[04:00:50] <Jymmm> corigated 2' x 8' fiberglass panles seem MUCh cheaper
[04:02:12] <les_w> well yeah my design is just OSB except for the collector which is corrugated acrylic
[04:02:28] <les_w> poly second layer under that
[04:04:56] <Jymmm> why osb?
[04:05:03] <Jymmm> denisty?
[04:05:25] <Jymmm> density
[04:22:47] <les_w> no just cheap
[04:23:01] <les_w> well, was
[04:23:08] <les_w> before iraq
[04:24:19] <les_w> I was reading the many replies to my badly spelled post on that car forum. Getting beat up a little.
[04:32:34] <Jymmm> lol, fuck em if they can't take a joke
[04:36:06] <Jymmm> is there an easy/simple way to glue-up boards?
[04:39:01] <les_w> what kind of boards?
[04:39:44] <Jymmm> 1 by 4's, 1 x 6's
[04:39:57] <les_w> what I do is this:
[04:40:32] <les_w> I keep a delta industrial power feed shaper usually set up for reversible glue joint
[04:40:40] <les_w> run em through
[04:41:00] <les_w> glue and clamp em up with titebond II
[04:41:08] <Jymmm> ok, you can stop there if it can't be done with a tiny table saw
[04:41:17] <les_w> you can make that joint with a hand router too
[04:41:28] <Jymmm> oh,
[04:41:38] <Jymmm> I got that =)
[04:42:06] <les_w> blah someone is bugging me about japanese cars
[04:42:14] <Jymmm> still have to sand the tops?
[04:42:19] <les_w> lexus, infiniti, acura
[04:42:30] <les_w> yes snad the tops
[04:42:34] <Jymmm> damn
[04:42:41] <Jymmm> no wonder so costly in the store
[04:42:50] <Jymmm> for wide stock
[04:43:08] <les_w> take to a cabinet shop in big batches and run through wide belt sander
[04:43:20] <Jymmm> heh
[04:43:38] <Jymmm> "Can I borrow your $4000 belt sander?"
[04:43:46] <Jymmm> lol
[04:43:46] <les_w> silver lexus. silver lexus. I hate siver lexus cars.
[04:43:54] <Jymmm> heh
[04:43:59] <Jymmm> perle white baby,
[04:44:05] <les_w> yeah
[04:44:33] <les_w> wide belt sander time is $40 /hr
[04:44:39] <les_w> can do lots of wood
[04:45:14] <Jymmm> it's an idea at least
[04:45:40] <les_w> Someone said "japanese luxury cars are fine automobiles"
[04:46:04] <les_w> that may be, but they LOOK like oscar meyer weinermobiles to me
[04:46:15] <les_w> bleh
[04:46:43] <Jymmm> rotf
[04:47:00] <les_w> yeah you can blast through a lot of sign blanks in an hour on a 25 hp wide belt...
[04:48:47] <les_w> I misspelled again and was taken to task
[04:49:00] <les_w> "accura"
[04:49:09] <les_w> has only one c.
[04:49:31] <les_w> I said ok...need something with 2 cs...
[04:49:40] <les_w> how about accord?
[04:49:43] <les_w> hahahaha
[04:50:57] <Jymmm> hondas are nice
[04:51:03] <Jymmm> not luxury, but nice
[04:51:59] <les_w> well, acura tl==accord with leather seating surfaces
[04:53:12] <les_w> +10k?
[04:53:44] <les_w> guess cow skin is in short supply.
[04:54:49] <les_w> Cows are really rare. Don't see em around much , huh?
[04:58:11] <Jymmm> lol
[04:58:29] <Jymmm> Yeah, I think the cows have formed a coalition againest it.
[04:58:47] <Jymmm> something about cruela and unusal punishment
[04:59:00] <Jymmm> just got done taking pic of my latest stuff.
[05:00:38] <djb_rh> an acura tl != an accord
[05:00:44] <djb_rh> not even close
[05:01:01] <djb_rh> different size class, different drive train, more features
[05:02:25] <les_w> really?
[05:02:43] <djb_rh> yes
[05:03:07] <djb_rh> I don't think the biggest motor (a V6) you can get in an accord is as big as the motor in a tl
[05:03:22] <djb_rh> you can get a leather accord, btw
[05:03:50] <djb_rh> still not nearly as nice as a tl
[05:04:22] <djb_rh> but the infinity g35 is still a more fun car in that class *and* it's got a more roomy feel
[05:04:24] <les_w> I have a tough choice. Audi a6, which I love, but very poor reliability. Lexus, infinity or acura, all reliable, but I hate the looks
[05:04:25] <les_w> heh
[05:04:49] <djb_rh> I like the TL looks the best of all that you mention, but that's a personal choice, certainly
[05:04:52] <les_w> acura tl is the best of them I thinkthough
[05:05:02] <djb_rh> but the G35 is rear wheel drive, which is a big plus to *me*
[05:05:06] <djb_rh> and you can get it in a manual
[05:05:10] <djb_rh> another big plus
[05:05:19] <Jymmm> fuck manual
[05:05:27] <les_w> I have a RWD BMW now
[05:05:31] <Jymmm> damn clutch
[05:05:37] <djb_rh> lazy!
[05:05:38] <les_w> it has unsurpassed handling
[05:05:43] <djb_rh> lol
[05:05:51] <les_w> but need a good car for long trips
[05:05:52] <djb_rh> unsurpassed? it's surpassed by several cars out there
[05:05:55] <les_w> love the audi
[05:05:56] <Jymmm> djb_rh drive 400 miles in a day, or with a sprained ankle and you'll think otherwise
[05:06:00] <les_w> had one before
[05:06:04] <djb_rh> shit, I'll outhandle your bmw with any Miata ever built. :P
[05:06:15] <Jymmm> miata == clown car
[05:06:18] <djb_rh> Jymmm: I drive over 40,000 miles a year mostly in manuals
[05:06:31] <djb_rh> I race cars, including endurance races
[05:06:41] <les_w> well, it is the best I ever drove anyway
[05:06:41] <Jymmm> racing is another stpry
[05:06:49] <Jymmm> as is offroad
[05:06:51] <djb_rh> I play basketball, too, so I have done both with bad ankles
[05:07:06] <djb_rh> I think I know what I'm talking about. :P
[05:07:23] <les_w> Audi is not nearly as good but it is so comfortable
[05:07:23] <djb_rh> but most is personal choice, I freely admit
[05:07:45] <djb_rh> yeah, the Audi/VW quality is just not there these days
[05:07:52] <Jymmm> djb_rh I want a refund! =)
[05:07:54] <les_w> Sell race car, get old man car...that's what I need
[05:08:12] <djb_rh> clown car
[05:08:13] <djb_rh> heh
[05:08:27] <les_w> valve cover gasket $1500???
[05:08:28] <djb_rh> put one on r-compound tires and drive the piss out of it and then come tell me that
[05:08:31] <les_w> what th
[05:08:58] <Jymmm> djb_rh: When I drive a miata, the top of my chest is at the top of the windshield
[05:09:07] <Jymmm> ragtop
[05:09:20] <les_w> miatas are go carts
[05:09:26] <djb_rh> how fucking tall are you? I'm 6'2" and can sit in one with the top up with a helmet on,
[05:09:38] <djb_rh> that's a stock car and stock seat
[05:09:43] <djb_rh> though I do bump easily
[05:09:48] <djb_rh> but we race top down in the stock car
[05:09:55] <Jymmm> shit, with the top up, my head is in the passage's side.
[05:10:02] <djb_rh> in my Spec Miata it has a hard top, but it has a custom mounted racing seat slammed on the floor and to the back. :)
[05:10:06] <Jymmm> almost 45 degrees
[05:10:27] <djb_rh> jeez, you would have hated my Elise
[05:10:29] <djb_rh> :P
[05:10:30] <les_w> I want a big quiet comfortable sedan. 325i back and forth to chicago gets old.
[05:10:44] <djb_rh> les_w: get a low mileage used 740il
[05:10:49] <djb_rh> that's a damned fine car
[05:10:52] <les_w> and the pickup?no.
[05:11:08] <les_w> 740 is nice
[05:11:22] <djb_rh> if you *really* want fun and a sedan, get a Subaru STi and put good shocks on it
[05:11:40] <les_w> hmm
[05:11:45] <djb_rh> you can get a nice ride with one that way (they suck stock for ride quality) and it's a fun car to drive, cheap, safe, and AWD
[05:12:05] <djb_rh> I had a Porsche 911 Turbo and traded it in on an STi after driving one
[05:12:07] <les_w> put bilstein HD on the 325
[05:12:09] <djb_rh> the STi was more fun
[05:12:31] <les_w> hmm
[05:12:32] <Jymmm> damnit... I need some hotlights and some umbrellas *ARGH*
[05:13:22] <djb_rh> I've got a Porsche Cayman S on order
[05:13:28] <les_w> I showed robin a picture of a MB slk230 cab earlier
[05:13:29] <djb_rh> *that's* gonna be a fun car
[05:13:35] <djb_rh> Jymmm won't fit in that, either, though
[05:13:59] <les_w> he said it was a "hairdresser's car"
[05:14:02] <Jymmm> djb_rh: I like muscle cars
[05:14:05] <les_w> cracked me up
[05:14:13] <djb_rh> Mercedes? why would you want a Chrysler product? :)
[05:14:45] <les_w> so I could drive an oscar meyer weinermobile lookalike.
[05:14:53] <djb_rh> Jymmm: ah, then you'd like my '31 Model A with the 351. Or my '62 Chevy stepside pickup with the ramjet 350. :)
[05:15:22] <Jymmm> most anything pre 70, I enjoy
[05:15:29] <djb_rh> the '62 should be done in a few months and should contend for the Goodguys truck of the year
[05:15:42] <djb_rh> it's gonna be flat out awesome
[05:16:18] <djb_rh> it was my great-great-grandfather's truck
[05:16:28] <djb_rh> but it was left to rot for too long and almost died completely
[05:16:36] <djb_rh> but the cab and doors were fixable
[05:16:48] <djb_rh> so it got a new frame and running works and bed
[05:17:03] <les_w> I just sold a 66 bronco sport
[05:17:18] <les_w> no time to restore it
[05:17:18] <djb_rh> not many original parts will exist other than cab, doors, hood, and dash
[05:17:21] <Jymmm> oh, you said sport....nm.
[05:17:36] <djb_rh> those 60's broncos are a pita to do much with
[05:17:39] <djb_rh> every year was different
[05:17:43] <djb_rh> not many parts swap over
[05:17:51] <les_w> collector bought it
[05:17:53] <djb_rh> they're beautiful little trucks, though
[05:17:56] <Jymmm> bronco + fuel injection
[05:17:57] <djb_rh> I always wanted to do one nice
[05:18:12] <Jymmm> adn chuck the hub
[05:18:14] <Jymmm> hubs
[05:18:17] <djb_rh> but then I decided a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with a Hemi was more my speed. :)
[05:18:30] <djb_rh> yes, I am a car whore
[05:18:35] <djb_rh> that's step 1
[05:18:45] <djb_rh> I admit I have a problem. :)
[05:18:52] <les_w> I just have a triton f150 and the bimmer right now.
[05:19:22] <les_w> Will have to travel a lot on road trips soon
[05:19:56] <les_w> neither are good for that
[05:20:27] <djb_rh> I've got an Excursion diesel 4x4 putting almost 700 ft-lbs to the ground
[05:20:37] <les_w> wow
[05:20:43] <djb_rh> it outruns most cars from a stop. :)
[05:20:55] <djb_rh> I use it for towing the race car
[05:20:57] <djb_rh> it's the small rig
[05:21:18] <djb_rh> the big rig is one of these:
http://www.kibbi.com/Home.aspx
[05:21:26] <les_w> looking
[05:21:34] <djb_rh> it's putting 1500 ft-lbs to the ground.
[05:22:06] <djb_rh> I've got the 17TLQ toter with a 3 car stacker trailer to go behind it
[05:22:11] <djb_rh> that's a beast to drive
[05:22:18] <djb_rh> it's just over 80 feet long
[05:23:50] <les_w> I get opinionated with cars. Designed oem car parts a long time.
[05:24:00] <djb_rh> nothing wrong with that
[05:24:02] <djb_rh> we all do
[05:24:19] <djb_rh> outside of quality, most is preference
[05:24:29] <djb_rh> and even quality is hard to measure in cars sometimes
[05:25:06] <les_w> I buy german cars because they beat me up and were so picky when I worked for them
[05:25:20] <djb_rh> yeah, but BMW quality seems down to me in the last three years
[05:25:30] <les_w> but what the hall has happened to their quality?
[05:25:33] <djb_rh> and Mercedes is going more and more Chrysler instead of the other way
[05:25:42] <les_w> I mean it's really bad
[05:25:48] <djb_rh> I agree
[05:26:03] <djb_rh> I owned an M-Roadster and an E46 M3 convertible
[05:26:11] <les_w> yeah. Chrysler Daimler.
[05:26:35] <djb_rh> I'm looking forward to the new Porsche, but even their quality hasn't been all that great
[05:26:47] <djb_rh> but they're tied to VW and Audi, which explains some of that
[05:26:54] <les_w> yup
[05:27:11] <les_w> what the hell is wrong with those guys
[05:27:27] <djb_rh> corporate dinks
[05:27:38] <djb_rh> they ruin all the greatest engineering ultimately
[05:27:39] <les_w> I guess
[05:28:55] <les_w> So I am crazy about an audi a6q
[05:29:06] <djb_rh> hey, go with what moves you
[05:29:12] <les_w> needs new transmission about every oil change?
[05:29:20] <djb_rh> well, that ain't good
[05:29:24] <les_w> oh well. warranty.
[05:29:30] <Jymmm> les_w: YUGO! YUGO! YUGO!
[05:29:34] <djb_rh> yeah, it really ain't good after the warranty
[05:29:51] <djb_rh> you want quality? Apparently you have to buy a Hyundai to get it.
[05:29:59] <les_w> yeah...great car...ditch it after warranty though
[05:30:02] <djb_rh> sadly, I don't want quality *that* bad
[05:30:43] <les_w> really...I bought a diesel Kioti tractor recently...korean
[05:30:49] <les_w> great quality
[05:31:12] <djb_rh> well
[05:31:13] <djb_rh> err
[05:31:15] <les_w> super reliability
[05:31:17] <djb_rh> that's really a Kubota
[05:31:24] <djb_rh> they buy old Kubota designs and molds
[05:31:27] <djb_rh> and just remake them
[05:31:33] <djb_rh> I used to have one
[05:31:34] <les_w> nope not any more
[05:31:38] <djb_rh> oh?
[05:31:43] <les_w> yeah
[05:31:43] <djb_rh> that's what they used to do
[05:31:47] <djb_rh> that's what mine was
[05:31:55] <djb_rh> but the previous owner had ragged it out (I got it with the house)
[05:31:55] <les_w> haha kubota sued them last year...
[05:31:58] <djb_rh> so I got rid of it
[05:32:28] <djb_rh> have one New Holland (big boy with a cab) and one Kubota (medium size)
[05:32:38] <djb_rh> and a Case backhoe
[05:32:42] <djb_rh> can't beat the Case backhoe
[05:32:51] <djb_rh> and a Cat skidsteer
[05:32:57] <djb_rh> love that little thing, too
[05:33:03] <les_w> I did not get a backhoe...but did get a FEL
[05:33:16] <djb_rh> oh, I mean a whole backhoe
[05:33:16] <les_w> handy.
[05:33:18] <djb_rh> just just an attachment
[05:33:19] <djb_rh> :)
[05:33:27] <djb_rh> I had a FEL on the New Holland
[05:33:40] <djb_rh> but when I got the backhoe I got rid of the FEL for the tractor
[05:33:48] <djb_rh> it sucked in comparison, and I didn't need two FEL's
[05:33:56] <les_w> I use it a lot
[05:34:08] <djb_rh> yeah, we use ours a lot, but we just use the backhoe instead of the tractor
[05:34:12] <djb_rh> I've got forks for it, too
[05:34:15] <djb_rh> and forks for the skidsteer
[05:34:20] <les_w> first diesel engine for me
[05:34:20] <djb_rh> both come in handy
[05:34:26] <les_w> yeah I have forks
[05:34:26] <djb_rh> moved my Bridgeport with the forks on the backhoe
[05:34:31] <les_w> very handy
[05:34:31] <Jymmm> all you dman farmers and your tractors!
[05:34:42] <djb_rh> YOU CALLIN ME A FARMER?
[05:34:44] <djb_rh> oh
[05:34:46] <djb_rh> okay
[05:34:46] <djb_rh> :)
[05:34:53] <djb_rh> I've just got horses
[05:34:58] <Jymmm> djb_rh: If the John Deer hat and overalls fit....
[05:35:00] <djb_rh> and a soft spot for construction gear
[05:35:03] <djb_rh> :)
[05:35:44] <les_w> I just bushog, push over small trees, and such
[05:36:07] <djb_rh> mmmm
[05:36:10] <djb_rh> pushing over trees
[05:36:11] <djb_rh> mmmm
[05:36:23] <les_w> might flip over neighbors car with the forks if I get mad enough
[05:36:27] <djb_rh> last time I used the backhoe was to bury a cat
[05:36:37] <les_w> ha
[05:36:45] <djb_rh> we get the occasional feral cat messing with our domestic outdoor cats
[05:36:52] <djb_rh> which can lead to disease
[05:36:56] <djb_rh> so the feral cats gotta go
[05:37:07] <djb_rh> 9mm at forty paces!
[05:37:27] <djb_rh> I've killed three, and all of them were around 35 pounds
[05:37:32] <les_w> yeah. one was chasing my chicken today
[05:37:53] <les_w> if it eats my pet chicken it gets a .22 for desert
[05:38:00] <djb_rh> I've got an AR-15 converted to 9mm. Even with open sights it's a great little varmint gun
[05:38:10] <djb_rh> cheap bullets, and kills quickly
[05:38:16] <djb_rh> 22 is fine if you get a head shot
[05:38:20] <djb_rh> but otherwise they flop a lot
[05:38:22] <djb_rh> I don't like that
[05:38:28] <les_w> I know this
[05:38:33] <Jymmm> 9mm not THAT cheap... now .22 that's cheap!
[05:38:34] <djb_rh> I've got a weak stomach
[05:38:53] <Jymmm> 500 rds $10
[05:38:55] <djb_rh> I hate it when I have to shoot the thing where I have to pick it up
[05:39:04] <djb_rh> I prefer to just go scoop it with the backhoe
[05:39:10] <djb_rh> my stomach is *that* weak
[05:39:22] <djb_rh> can't friggin stand to hit a channel on tv with a surgery
[05:39:27] <djb_rh> *churn*
[05:39:37] <les_w> I solved the problem...I just let my cat out. The one chicken is kind of screwed up in the head and follows my cat...
[05:39:44] <les_w> so it was protected.
[05:39:57] <djb_rh> lol
[05:40:08] <Jymmm> so now it follows the dog AND the cat?
[05:40:17] <les_w> cat and chicken sleep together!!
[05:40:24] <Jymmm> lol
[05:40:30] <Jymmm> in the house?
[05:40:32] <les_w> you saw the picture
[05:40:44] <Jymmm> I dont think I did
[05:40:49] <djb_rh> wife won't let me have chickens
[05:40:50] <djb_rh> dammit
[05:40:52] <djb_rh> I don't know why
[05:40:56] <les_w> I don't have it up anywhere
[05:41:00] <djb_rh> we do have some guineas, but they don't really need care
[05:41:02] <djb_rh> they just wander
[05:41:21] <djb_rh> had 14 at one time, but we're down to 6
[05:41:22] <Jymmm> just need a house bunny now
[05:41:29] <djb_rh> but they seem to have stabilized there pretty well
[05:42:15] <djb_rh> beditime
[05:42:18] <djb_rh> err
[05:42:19] <djb_rh> bedtime
[05:42:26] <Jymmm> G'Night djb_rh
[05:42:27] <les_w> I was trying to raise some. I'm from the city and screwed up. all but one froze. I let the last one out. Chickens flock, but it had no animal to flock with except my cat. Now it just follows him.
[05:42:29] <djb_rh> 'night
[05:42:38] <les_w> night
[05:43:39] <CIA-6> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (18 files in 13 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Sun Dec 18 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[06:18:57] <Jymmm> les_w no music room tonight?
[07:01:55] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[07:02:02] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[10:16:13] <anonimasu> morning
[14:06:07] <cradek> good morning
[14:30:17] <cradek> morning ray
[14:30:43] <rayh> Hi Chris. How you today?
[14:31:44] <cradek> not bad - headache but getting better
[14:31:48] <cradek> you?
[14:32:08] <rayh> Good. Nice and cool today.
[14:32:16] <rayh> The weather that is
[14:32:31] <cradek> yes I suppose it is
[14:32:49] <cradek> 50% chance of snow here - it's still early enough in winter that I look forward to seeing the snow
[14:33:04] <rayh> It gets pretty bad for driving when it's about freezing.
[14:33:24] <rayh> No snow on the ground there yet?
[14:33:27] <cradek> yeah, but I don't mind
[14:33:35] <cradek> well let me go look
[14:34:09] <rayh> We've got a foot or so.
[14:34:19] <cradek> nope, everything's dry here
[14:35:16] <rayh> Was testing tune on univstep last night. Really wide range of values possible.
[14:36:08] <rayh> I suppose that is an advantage of dealing with a virtual motor.
[14:39:23] <cradek> I'd like to mess with a servo machine sometime
[14:39:46] <cradek> seems like a whole different world
[14:40:28] <cradek> say, what's your opinion about this manual-mode-spindle-off thing?
[14:40:41] <rayh> Very different.
[14:40:58] <cradek> jone says his very old emc1 version does this, but my more recent version doesn't
[14:41:10] <rayh> I tested the actions that you found and it does work that way.
[14:41:21] <cradek> do you mean emc1 or 2?
[14:41:38] <rayh> You made me a bit nervous talking about init and a few of the other commands
[14:41:44] <rayh> but it does what you say.
[14:42:07] <rayh> I don't have a "legacy" system running now so can't comment on old emc1 stuff.
[14:42:28] <cradek> so regardless of what old versions do, do you think it's a bug?
[14:43:15] <rayh> IMO a "mode change," is a major switch in operating control
[14:43:54] <rayh> I'd favor a full stop between modes.
[14:44:09] <rayh> But again this is a case of "machine logic" being hard coded
[14:44:21] <cradek> yeah it is
[14:44:28] <rayh> Keith Rumley's work handled some of these issues nicely.
[14:44:46] <rayh> You could set some pre and post conditions in the ini
[14:45:03] <rayh> and the task planner would honor them.
[14:45:31] <cradek> so just to be clear you think it should turn the spindle off whenever you switch between the three modes?
[14:45:53] <rayh> I believe that we should add this to theTODO for 2.2 release.
[14:46:02] <rayh> Personally I would prefer that.
[14:46:38] <cradek> ok interesting, I would prefer it never turn the spindle off except for ESC (task abort) or estop
[14:46:47] <cradek> sounds like we need configurability then.
[14:47:14] <rayh> But the I see "mode" a bit different from the way you do.
[14:47:32] <cradek> yeah, I know we disagree on how modes work sometimes
[14:48:00] <rayh> and that's okay.
[14:48:03] <fenn> there are usability modes and then there are safety levels.. not the same thing
[14:48:26] <rayh> Yes.
[14:48:49] <cradek> so without getting too far off topic, another interesting question:
[14:49:01] <rayh> k
[14:49:12] <cradek> what do we do for emc2.0 with respect to this? We're not going to have full configurability, so what behavior should we have?
[14:49:24] <cradek> should it be the same as (the latest) emc1?
[14:49:41] <cradek> I'm tempted to say "yes" to this
[14:50:29] <rayh> * rayh wonders what the lastest emc(1) is.
[14:50:41] <cradek> a good question
[14:51:03] <cradek> today, the cradek_stable branch and HEAD are approximately the same
[14:51:09] <cradek> so I'd have to say it's that
[14:51:29] <rayh> rather than bdi-4.30?
[14:51:57] <cradek> in my opinion, that's not emc1
[14:52:11] <cradek> but it would be interesting to know how it behaves
[14:52:13] <rayh> I can see that.
[14:52:34] <rayh> Most users will compare to the BDI that they have been running.
[14:53:04] <rayh> and that has not been the emc(1) module for some time now.
[14:53:30] <cradek> if someone here has bdi-4.30's emc1, it would be nice if he could test this behavior and report
[14:53:38] <rayh> Live rc46/7 is probably the last real clean emc build
[14:54:00] <cradek> I don't have access to that either
[14:54:02] <rayh> I've got it runnable on this box.
[14:54:03] <cradek> all I have is cvs
[14:54:42] <rayh> Let me see if I can get the old rc46 back to life.
[14:55:03] <rayh> * rayh runs for a shovel
[14:55:03] <cradek> great
[14:55:10] <cradek> haha
[15:06:57] <rayh> nope. not enough life left in that mobo.
[15:10:17] <cradek> darn
[15:12:09] <cradek> long ago I had that Live CD but I sure don't know where it is now
[15:21:02] <rayh> We have a heartbeat. Musta been bad memory.
[15:21:09] <rayh> like mine.
[15:23:57] <rayh> 15 tries to find the root passwd -- success.
[15:24:04] <rayh> this box belonged to someone else.
[15:24:17] <rayh> now for the monitor issues.
[15:25:40] <rayh> 1.5 years ago was the last login.
[15:36:47] <skunkworks> wow
[15:41:17] <rayh> what's happening skunkworks
[15:57:24] <cradek> rayh: any luck on your test of rc46? sounds like it was more work than you expected
[15:59:04] <cradek> morning jmk
[15:59:11] <jmkasunich> hi
[16:11:31] <rayh> cradek: sorry phone.
[16:12:07] <rayh> Still setting up the monitor and getting rid of the belgian keyboard.
[16:14:50] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[16:15:15] <alex_joni> hi john
[17:04:45] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc/src/classicladder/ (33 files): removed contents of this dir. classicladder is not likely to be added to emc1, check emc2 instead, it is already working nicely there.
[17:22:20] <skunkworks_wrk> does the bdi install (magma) support duel proccesors?
[17:23:12] <cradek> it will install but I'm sure it's not a smp kernel
[17:23:27] <skunkworks_wrk> thanks
[17:24:08] <skunkworks_wrk> dad has been running your axis front-end making signs for the grand kids - he likes it. Great work.
[17:24:27] <cradek> terrific
[17:24:43] <cradek> is he a machinist by trade or hobbyist?
[17:25:33] <skunkworks_wrk> hobby - used to work as an radio engineer at a public radio station - then worked in a physics department fixing lab equipment - now he is retired
[17:26:16] <skunkworks_wrk> he has many hobbies ;)
[17:26:21] <cradek> don't we all
[17:26:29] <skunkworks_wrk> ;)
[17:26:32] <cradek> I'm glad to hear he likes it
[17:26:38] <cradek> I wonder how many AXIS users we have
[17:27:27] <skunkworks_wrk> Pretty damn cool - even before I knew that you could rotate the object ;)
[17:28:08] <skunkworks_wrk> And the mouse that I had hooked up did have the scrol wheel ;)
[17:29:31] <cradek> welcome to the late 1990s! :-)
[17:29:32] <skunkworks_wrk> dads first machine tool purchase was a shaper. then a brown and sharp mill (if I remember right)
[17:30:56] <skunkworks_wrk> now he has large nc mill and 2 nc lathes (very large and old) as dad says - some people have boats
[17:32:02] <alex_joni> cradek: maybe you should set up a AXIS frappr map ;)
[17:32:13] <skunkworks_wrk> cool idea
[17:32:14] <alex_joni> skunkworks_wrk: btw, are you on the emc map?
[17:32:25] <skunkworks_wrk> yes - western WI
[17:32:32] <alex_joni> ok.. thanks
[17:34:25] <skunkworks_wrk> alex, cradek - did you guys ever look at running differnt accellerations on different axises - now that we are up and running I need to play with it more. I can run z atleast 5ips^2 but it would be nice to accellerate x andy faster.
[17:34:48] <alex_joni> skunkworks_wrk: we just stumbled upon something today
[17:34:57] <alex_joni> hang on a bit
[17:35:06] <skunkworks_wrk> that sounds promising - thanks
[17:42:01] <skunkworks_wrk> hey alex - can you edit the header of the #emc channel?
[17:42:16] <alex_joni> skunkworks_wrk: I might, what's the problem?
[17:42:31] <cradek> we're mode -t so I think anyone can set topic
[17:43:03] <skunkworks_wrk> http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller" when I double click on the map and the irc client (mirc) forwards me to the site it has the " at the end.
[17:43:45] <alex_joni> cradek: nope, ChanServ changes it back
[17:43:47] <skunkworks_wrk> so it doesn't find the site - if that makes sense. The " is at the end of the url.
[17:44:01] <alex_joni> alex_joni has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home: www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map:
http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller
[17:44:08] <alex_joni> try now..
[17:44:14] <cradek> yay
[17:44:33] <skunkworks_wrk> that workecd - thanks
[17:44:52] <alex_joni> skunkworks_wrk: no problem ;)
[17:45:06] <alex_joni> btw, I think I might have the fix for the problem you mentioned
[17:45:32] <skunkworks_wrk> my problem?
[17:45:42] <skunkworks_wrk> I have so many ;)
[17:45:53] <alex_joni> the accel issue
[17:45:59] <skunkworks_wrk> great
[17:53:21] <skunkworks_wrk> wow alex - romania (I am sure my wife would love to visit there) She has been to spain and we have been to ireleand
[17:54:46] <tomp> morning all
[17:55:31] <cradek> hello
[18:05:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni: how often to do visit hungry?
[18:05:19] <alex_joni> Jymmm: depends
[18:05:29] <alex_joni> usually on my way to austria/germany
[18:05:35] <alex_joni> a couple times a year
[18:05:37] <alex_joni> 10-15 maybe
[18:05:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni: how difficult is it to ship something from hungry to US ?
[18:06:05] <alex_joni> no idea
[18:06:10] <Jymmm> damn
[18:06:50] <Jymmm> alex_joni if you get a chance, culd you find out? no rush
[18:07:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni food stuffs
[18:07:12] <alex_joni> food?
[18:07:23] <alex_joni> not sure you're allowed to ship that at all
[18:07:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni canned
[18:08:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni:
http://www.pottedmeatmuseum.com/meatpics/034.jpg
[18:09:13] <alex_joni> I'll ask around.. ok?
[18:09:45] <Jymmm> alex_joni np... I still need to locate the company name and address. But They probably sell it locally as well I'd suspect.
[18:10:49] <alex_joni> Jymmm: can you drop me an email about it?
[18:10:55] <alex_joni> I fear I forget otherwise..
[18:11:03] <Jymmm> lol, sure np.
[18:11:13] <alex_joni> work addy.. got it?
[18:11:28] <Jymmm> alex_joni I've been looking for the stuff for years, so really no rush.
[18:17:35] <rayh__> rayh__ is now known as rayh
[18:28:08] <tomp> new machine: really nice 6 axis, non-hexapod, constant center
http://www.cybamantech.co.uk/cyba/?page=cybaman
[18:28:38] <tomp> like harlem globe trotter's Meadowlark Lemon palming a basketball... ctr is constant
[18:29:37] <alex_joni> tomp: your machine?
[18:29:47] <tomp> nope, just interested
[18:30:18] <tomp> it's not A B C axis, but related ( needs kinematix )
[18:30:37] <alex_joni> not a big issue with emc ;)
[18:30:54] <rayh> tomp: I don't know much about msgcat better ask fenn
[18:31:20] <tomp> ok, ray, sent it already... nope dang server....
[18:32:32] <alex_joni> tomp: what's wrong with msgcat ?
[18:32:57] <tomp> it only deals with the text string, not the font, and font is necc for many languages
[18:33:30] <tomp> most languages
[18:33:51] <alex_joni> right.. well, not sure how you can take care of that automatically
[18:34:22] <tomp> i suggested a wrapper for msgcat ( msgdog) that carries font (fam size style )
[18:35:09] <alex_joni> msgdog is pretty poor on google
[18:35:25] <tomp> lemme try :-)
[18:36:43] <tomp> ok, there is no such thing as invention, only a window of opprtunity ( i just thought up msgdog )
[18:37:27] <alex_joni> tomp: if you know how to do it.. go right ahead
[18:37:48] <tomp> "I dunno & >will< go right ahead :-)
[18:37:55] <alex_joni> ok then
[18:46:23] <Jacky^> _ _ _
[18:46:23] <Jacky^> | | | |(_)
[18:46:23] <Jacky^> | |_| || |
[18:46:23] <Jacky^> | _ || |
[18:46:23] <Jacky^> |_| |_||_|
[18:48:47] <skunkworks_wrk> alex - I am going to be away for a hour or so.
[18:49:15] <Jacky^> :-)
[18:56:14] <Jacky^> later..
[18:57:45] <fenn> rofl.. msgdog
[19:01:52] <tomp> fenn, didja get the email about it? pix & code
[19:05:16] <fenn> hey nice, antialiased and everything
[19:06:03] <fenn> i can almost read maybe 20% of that
[19:06:26] <tomp> not antialiased, just careful choice of font. I want truetype but TT & TclTk are ... i dunno howto
[19:06:56] <fenn> hmm maybe it's just my fuzzy vision ;)
[19:07:20] <tomp> yep, I thought you'd be able to read a lot of it.. Chinese has the roots of Japanese
[19:09:10] <tomp> I made a GB ( chinese ) po file for emc, and it requires special fonts
[19:09:53] <tomp> (didnt mean to make this a private conversation)
[19:13:28] <alex_joni> tomp: two ways here..
[19:13:36] <alex_joni> 1. include the translation.. no problem
[19:13:42] <alex_joni> 2. figure the font stuff..
[19:14:03] <alex_joni> 2.1. make it msgdog, and user-friendly (I have no idea how..)
[19:14:30] <alex_joni> 2.2. have the user edit TkEmc (the file sourced by tkemc.tcl), and change the font to their needs
[19:17:20] <tomp> thanks alex, pretty much the route I took. I got a gb.msg and a tkemc.tcl with font infos hard coded, interested?
[19:17:38] <alex_joni> tomp: can't really do anything with chinese stuff :D
[19:18:33] <tomp> right. I meant as example on how to do cyrilic, tamil or thai...
[19:21:48] <cradek> tomp: is the change in tkemc.tcl just one line?
[19:23:41] <tomp> chris, I'd like it to be, but my best guess now is at top, a var for the font descriptor, and scattered thru code, the "-font $fontDesc"
[19:23:58] <tomp> clumsy :-(
[19:24:52] <alex_joni> tomp: how recent emc2 are you using?
[19:25:02] <tomp> 20051129
[19:25:14] <alex_joni> ok. check configs/TkEmc
[19:25:33] <alex_joni> there is :
[19:25:42] <alex_joni> *top*font: -*-helvetica-bold-r-normal-*-12-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
[19:25:57] <alex_joni> changing that would probably work too.. I think?
[19:28:09] <skunkworks> back
[19:28:19] <tomp> i looked at that last nite... I think you're right.. changing that is good for 1 of the 2 locale... will try ( try 2x :-)
[19:30:27] <tomp> as a matter of fact I see I already hacked it to get the 6axis DRO up! ( i needed a left frame xyz & right frame abc ), ok, i go putz there now
[19:33:40] <alex_joni> okie
[19:37:57] <tomp> ok, looks pretty good! Thank Alex. The About and other popups dont respect the font but a huge amount is clean now!
[19:38:18] <alex_joni> tomp: probably the rest needs to go in there too
[19:38:41] <tomp> dont understand :-o
[19:39:01] <alex_joni> *top*font:
[19:39:13] <alex_joni> that is for the screen
[19:39:24] <alex_joni> there might be such a thing for popups
[19:39:36] <alex_joni> but I knoww too little tcl/tk to say how
[19:40:19] <tomp> gotcha, will look into it. I didnt think it's be a good fix, but it's clean :-)
[19:40:47] <alex_joni> seems cleaner than hacking the rest of tkemc.tcl
[19:41:16] <tomp> F
[19:41:16] <tomp> ADN
[19:41:32] <tomp> sorry cut & paste is ng here
[19:41:52] <alex_joni> probably
[19:43:45] <tomp> *top*font:-*-hanzigb16fs-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* was all i did, and reinstated the orig ( 2 frame ) config/tkemc
[19:44:45] <jepler> what version of Tk does Tkemc use? Modern versions (8.2 and newer) support a different syntax for specifying fonts, and I guess this new way is the more desirable one.
[19:45:27] <tomp> I use 8.4 , I think it came with BDI4.30, else i apt-got it
[19:45:34] <jepler> e.g., "Helvetica 12" for a 12-point (not pixel) font
[19:46:11] <rayh> 8.4 is default
[19:46:29] <tomp> oh, you mean -font{"freds super font" 12 roman} like that ?
[19:46:49] <jepler> something like that. The syntax is described by "man n fonts"
[19:47:30] <tomp> i alays forget that, and better yet tclhelp :-) nice gui dictionary for ticklese
[19:48:00] <jepler> interesting. I never knew about "tclhelp".
[19:48:19] <tomp> you'll like it :-) ( i think )
[19:49:18] <jepler> I think I'll stick to using "man"
[19:49:40] <alex_joni> jepler: be a man
[19:49:42] <alex_joni> use man
[19:49:44] <alex_joni> :D
[19:49:49] <jepler> my thought exactly
[19:52:56] <Jymmm> "I am woman! Here me roar!"
[19:52:59] <Jymmm> hear
[19:53:34] <alex_joni> yes we know you're a woman..
[19:55:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni: eat me!
[20:05:51] <roltek> why is a sub program called with the letter o
[20:07:00] <fenn> roltek: good question
[20:07:20] <fenn> i think it's something like, "because it was the only letter available"
[20:08:28] <roltek> in a fanuc style program o0001 would be a standard program name
[20:11:05] <roltek> what activates a sub program
[20:12:53] <alex_joni> definately not /quit
[20:13:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni =) maybe /server
[20:13:48] <fenn> maybe /mode +b *jymmm*
[20:14:12] <alex_joni> fenn: b-have
[20:14:30] <Jymmm> fenn like this?
[20:14:52] <fenn> meh
[20:15:02] <fenn> i spend too much time on irc
[20:15:09] <Jymmm> fenn lol =)
[20:17:24] <Jymmm> fenn what you up to these days?
[20:18:34] <CIA-6> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: added comments to setupconfig.tcl, describing intended operation... will implement later, pending comments and suggestions
[20:19:02] <tomp> fenn, btw, scratch all that editing inside tkemc.tcl, alex showed me how to just edit configs/tkemc
[20:19:56] <alex_joni> tomp: configs/TkEmc
[20:20:13] <alex_joni> but nowadays it's not there anymore it's emc2/tcl/TkEmc
[20:21:03] <tomp> yep TkEmc ... dang!, gotta renew my emc2
[20:23:52] <fenn> Jymmm: i've got a top-secret project
[20:24:03] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[20:24:47] <Jymmm> fenn any nude women, gallons of boose, and 60,000 rounds of ammo involved?
[20:24:57] <fenn> heh.. pick two
[20:25:01] <Jymmm> lol
[20:25:42] <Jymmm> step one: nude women, step two: boose and ammo together!
[20:45:33] <skunkworks> alex - what kinda idea did you have for the acceleration issue?
[20:45:45] <alex_joni> hang on.. commiting now
[20:47:43] <skunkworks> that is great - thanks
[20:49:08] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/initraj.cc: moved the default_accel code, so max_accel gets honoured
[20:49:13] <alex_joni> skunkworks: now this might or might not be related to your problem
[20:49:22] <alex_joni> please test and report back ;)
[20:49:33] <alex_joni> did you have a bug-tracker open at SF for this?
[20:50:46] <skunkworks> no - I wasn't 100% sure it was a problem or just me ;)
[20:51:02] <skunkworks> I will give it a try and get back to you
[20:51:05] <alex_joni> if it still doesn't work.. please add a bug tracker
[20:51:13] <skunkworks> I will - thanks
[20:51:13] <alex_joni> I'm around for 10 more minutes
[20:51:31] <skunkworks> it won't happen until later tonight or tomorrow
[20:51:55] <skunkworks> thanks again.
[20:56:46] <Jacky^> uhm
[20:57:37] <Jacky^> anyone know where can I find the keygen for EMC2 ?
[20:57:52] <jepler> /usr/bin/ssh-keygen ?
[20:58:02] <Jacky^> :P
[20:58:06] <Jacky^> thanks
[20:58:24] <Jacky^> and the serial code for AXIS ?
[20:58:42] <jepler> just put in all 9s
[20:58:50] <Jacky^> :D
[20:58:58] <Jacky^> wow excellent, thank you
[20:59:12] <Jymmm> keygen? axis serial? wth?
[20:59:21] <jepler> Jymmm: I think Jacky^ is joking
[20:59:33] <Jymmm> jepler with Jacky^, you never know =)
[20:59:37] <Jacky^> Jymmm: working to crack emc ..
[20:59:41] <Jymmm> lol
[20:59:42] <Jacky^> seems hard :/
[20:59:45] <Jacky^> :D
[21:00:24] <Jymmm> Jacky^ j00se r a leet haxor
[21:00:32] <Jymmm> my bad l33t
[21:02:21] <Jacky^> ouch .. I just postend in a ML to help a guy installing Linux and he ask me for serial number :(
[21:02:41] <Jacky^> I tried to explain it doesnt exist
[21:02:47] <Jacky^> wont believe
[21:03:34] <rayh> might be something like the enterprise editions of RH or Novel
[21:03:43] <Jacky^> :-))
[21:03:56] <Jacky^> rayh: thats a young boy
[21:04:11] <Jacky^> always used just proprietary software
[21:04:44] <Jacky^> he learned very well ..
[21:04:47] <Jacky^> uhmmmmm
[21:04:49] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/stepper/README: added information for stepper. displays weird in setupconfig.tcl
[21:16:48] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/stepper/stepper_mm.ini: added a metric ini for steppers
[21:17:51] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/stepper/stepper_in.ini: changed default debug level, don't want new users scared by full debug
[21:18:14] <alex_joni> alrighty.. off to bed for me
[21:18:16] <alex_joni> night all
[21:18:19] <skunkworks> night
[21:18:24] <skunkworks> thanks again
[21:18:28] <Jacky^> alex_joni: night
[21:18:29] <alex_joni> skunkworks: np
[21:18:45] <skunkworks> emc2 for the win ;)
[21:18:59] <tomp> bye alex & thanx
[21:19:00] <Jacky^> windows ?
[21:19:07] <alex_joni> Jacky^: don't go there :D
[21:19:11] <Jacky^> got a new porting ?
[21:19:14] <Jacky^> :D
[21:19:17] <alex_joni> :P
[21:19:18] <alex_joni> c ya
[21:19:23] <skunkworks> ;) I mean like winning the race
[21:19:23] <Jacky^> night
[21:19:34] <Jacky^> oh, ok then :)
[21:20:17] <Jacky^> skunkworks: are you using emc to drive a car ? O_O
[21:20:37] <skunkworks> I would if I could
[21:21:06] <Jacky^> found a nice aricle about cars today
[21:21:11] <Jacky^> http://www.hughesresearch.co.uk/
[21:21:19] <Jacky^> I want to show it to les_w
[21:21:32] <Jacky^> just to understand what it do
[21:21:43] <Jacky^> if is really* useful
[21:25:33] <Jacky^> I think it could work
[21:25:51] <Jacky^> assuming there more cars then peoples around
[21:26:10] <Jacky^> here we got 1 family, 4 peoples, 6 cars
[21:26:12] <Jacky^> :D
[21:48:23] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:48:32] <Jacky^> hey robin_sz
[21:48:35] <robin_sz> hi
[21:51:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz was reading an interesting probablilty problem
[21:51:24] <Jacky^> robin_sz: about ?
[21:51:31] <robin_sz> choices :)
[21:52:06] <robin_sz> you are on a game show, there are 3 doors, one has a car, the others have goats. ... you pick a door ...
[21:52:49] <Jacky^> really im playng xtux and im at third level :(
[21:53:01] <Jacky^> a zombie mapped me
[21:53:02] <robin_sz> the game show host now opens one of the other doors to reveal a goat (because he knows already what is behind the doors)
[21:53:04] <Jacky^> :/
[21:53:27] <robin_sz> now ... you can keep your original choice .. or change your mind
[21:53:31] <robin_sz> what shoudl you do?
[21:53:41] <robin_sz> keep ist choice
[21:53:48] <robin_sz> change your choice
[21:53:52] <Jacky^> let me think ..
[21:53:53] <robin_sz> or makes no difference?
[21:54:42] <Jacky^> no clue
[21:55:21] <tomp> is it a really nice goat?
[21:55:32] <robin_sz> it is not too bad.
[21:56:13] <tomp> then stay with 1st guess (just relieve your mind)
[21:57:15] <robin_sz> thats a good move ...
[21:57:19] <robin_sz> if you like goats
[21:57:35] <robin_sz> bad move if you prefer cars :)
[21:57:57] <tomp> really? its not just 50/50?
[21:58:01] <robin_sz> nope ...
[21:58:26] <robin_sz> if you always change, the chances of winning the car are 2/3
[21:58:36] <robin_sz> if you always keep, the chances are 1/3
[21:59:41] <tomp> so i gain 13.3% by swxing
[22:00:01] <robin_sz> you gain 33.333% by swxing
[22:00:28] <robin_sz> you go from 33% to 66% if you always change your mind
[22:00:33] <robin_sz> weird huh?
[22:00:53] <cradek> you go from 1/3 to 1/2 I think
[22:01:06] <tomp> i meant over my 50/50 estimate, yes weird
[22:01:13] <robin_sz> well, you might think that ..
[22:01:48] <robin_sz> if you always keep, there is only one way to win, that is to pick the car first time (1/3) right?
[22:02:19] <tomp> did you tell Bob Barker about this ( from Price Is Right )
[22:02:40] <tomp> right
[22:02:43] <robin_sz> but if you always swap, there is only one way to lose ... that is to pick the car first (1/3) and then swap away from it
[22:02:55] <robin_sz> so if the chances of losing are 1/3
[22:03:02] <robin_sz> the chance of winning is 2/3
[22:03:50] <tomp> and if there are 4 doors?
[22:04:01] <robin_sz> its called the "Monty Hall" problem, and is a fairly well known maths problem .. I was reading about it earlier
[22:04:10] <tomp> do your odds go up?
[22:04:13] <robin_sz> 4 doors?
[22:04:29] <robin_sz> always keep is 1/4 .. 25%
[22:04:53] <robin_sz> always swap is .. hmmm trickier :)
[22:05:05] <K4ts> hello
[22:05:08] <Jacky^> hey guys, anyone want to play monopoly game online ?
[22:05:11] <Jacky^> hi K4ts
[22:05:21] <robin_sz> is it strip monopoly?
[22:05:36] <tomp> no-peek strip monoploy
[22:05:37] <Jacky^> yeah :P
[22:05:42] <Jacky^> lol
[22:05:45] <K4ts> strip?
[22:05:47] <K4ts> no
[22:05:51] <K4ts> ah ah
[22:06:01] <robin_sz> sounds fun, but online I suspect it is not that good
[22:06:07] <Jacky^> gtkatlanitk required
[22:06:09] <Jacky^> is
[22:06:14] <Jacky^> on katlantik
[22:06:19] <robin_sz> shrug
[22:06:19] <Jacky^> or
[22:06:22] <Jacky^> damn !
[22:06:24] <Jacky^> :)
[22:06:36] <Jacky^> robin_sz: want to play a turn ?
[22:06:59] <Jacky^> ah, theres the windows ver. too
[22:07:09] <robin_sz> mmmm ... I have ancient linux here
[22:07:22] <robin_sz> RH7.1, probably not going to work
[22:07:29] <K4ts> it is cold for the strip!
[22:07:38] <robin_sz> pah,
[22:08:12] <robin_sz> Ive rolled naked in snow near the arctic circle ... now, THAT was cold.
[22:08:14] <Jacky^> K4ts: arf arf .. Ive the fire inside :P
[22:08:18] <Jacky^> bauahah
[22:08:41] <K4ts> here dog is a cold
[22:08:51] <Jacky^> http://gtkatlantic.gradator.net/downloads.html
[22:09:09] <Jacky^> yes, theres windoz ver. too
[22:09:21] <Jacky^> im waiting for players
[22:09:22] <robin_sz> sauna ... snow roll ... sauna ... snow roll ... repeat until you feel funny
[22:09:30] <Jacky^> :)
[22:10:05] <Jacky^> please join jaky^ game
[22:10:11] <K4ts> today the temperature has considerably bent down
[22:10:13] <Jacky^> please sit down
[22:10:15] <Jacky^> :)
[22:10:45] <Jacky^> ERROR: This game requires at least 2 players to be started.
[22:10:50] <Jacky^> ghghgh came on
[22:11:11] <Jacky^> [CONNECT 1] connected on "meta.gradator.net:1240", use socket 4
[22:11:19] <Jacky^> ah. I disabled auctions
[22:11:26] <Jacky^> are they important ? O_O
[22:12:06] <Jacky^> oh .. K4ts joined too
[22:12:16] <Jacky^> robin_sz: installed ?
[22:12:25] <robin_sz> server name?
[22:12:37] <Jacky^> connected on "meta.gradator.net:1240",
[22:12:43] <Jacky^> it say
[22:12:53] <Jacky^> solarium.devnullteam.org:1232", use socket 4
[22:12:59] <Jacky^> jaky^ game
[22:13:44] <Jacky^> ok
[22:14:06] <Jacky^> any other around ?
[22:14:10] <Jacky^> want to play ?
[22:14:37] <CIA-6> 03cradek * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (stepper_inch.ini stepper_in.ini):
[22:14:37] <CIA-6> the _in is easy to confuse with .in (something postprocessed by configure)
[22:14:37] <CIA-6> there is no need to save letters at the cost of clarity.
[22:14:53] <tomp> have fun, bye bye
[22:15:16] <Jacky^> who want try can leave the game
[22:15:24] <Jacky^> and lost the money .. :)
[22:16:47] <Jacky^> robin_sz: in case, you can leave the gam when you want
[22:16:55] <Jacky^> if you dont like it :;)
[22:17:23] <robin_sz> ah, I get it
[22:17:47] <Jacky^> hehe
[22:18:33] <Jacky^> K4ts: still there ?
[22:21:42] <K4ts> no
[22:21:58] <Jacky^> you quit the game ?
[22:23:42] <Jacky^> damn jail
[22:25:04] <K4ts> ma insomma
[22:25:11] <K4ts> si gioca o no'
[22:25:18] <Jacky^> K4ts: try to re-join the same game
[22:25:30] <Jacky^> K4ts: yes, were playng
[22:26:38] <robin_sz> oops locked out
[22:26:45] <Jacky^> im too :/
[22:26:56] <robin_sz> ok game on
[22:27:08] <Jacky^> I just tried to ping K4ts
[22:29:37] <K4ts> ehi
[22:29:45] <K4ts> non c'è nessuno su gtk
[22:29:49] <K4ts> ?
[22:29:56] <Jacky^> K4ts: yes, we are
[22:30:05] <K4ts> a me non compare
[22:30:10] <Jacky^> youre always in the game
[22:30:19] <Jacky^> but I cant kick you
[22:31:00] <K4ts> gia scusa mi spieghi cosa stai dicendo?
[22:31:09] <Jacky^> non posso kikkarti
[22:31:18] <Jacky^> sei uan zombie nel game :(
[22:31:24] <K4ts> ma ioho spento pure
[22:31:32] <K4ts> spe riavvio
[22:31:34] <K4ts> ok?
[22:31:37] <Jacky^> no
[22:31:42] <Jacky^> sei nel game !
[22:31:49] <K4ts> bha
[22:31:54] <K4ts> e allora come gioco?
[22:31:56] <Jacky^> wait
[22:32:10] <Jacky^> finiamo io e robin
[22:39:17] <Jacky^> with no auctions its hard
[22:39:27] <Jacky^> im not familiar with thi game yet :/
[22:42:34] <K4ts> ma chiudi il giocoo
[22:42:42] <K4ts> e fammi entrare
[22:42:45] <Jacky^> anna no, stiamo finendo
[22:43:44] <Jacky^> aargh
[22:45:44] <robin_sz> oops locked out again ...
[22:45:51] <Jacky^> locked
[22:48:17] <Jacky^> oh -oh ..
[22:48:44] <Jacky^> The game has ended! anonymous wins with a fortune of 3585!
[22:48:54] <Jacky^> :(
[22:49:04] <Jacky^> K4ts: robin_sz mi ha distrutto
[22:49:13] <K4ts> AH AH
[22:49:16] <K4ts> COSI IMPARI
[22:49:36] <Jacky^> K4ts: close all internet apps youre running
[22:49:38] <K4ts> ROBIN
[22:49:43] <robin_sz> meep?
[22:49:47] <Jacky^> not irc
[22:49:50] <Jacky^> lol
[22:49:58] <Jacky^> robin_sz won
[22:50:03] <robin_sz> as usual
[22:50:04] <skunkworks_emc2> I just updated emc2 and now I think I need to know how it knows which ini's to use
[22:50:09] <Jacky^> yeah.. but im newbie at this game
[22:50:27] <K4ts> GO
[22:50:28] <skunkworks_emc2> used to be the emc.ini in the configs directory
[22:50:37] <K4ts> ANDIAMO A GIOCARE
[22:50:41] <K4ts> '
[22:50:58] <Jacky^> K4ts: ready
[22:51:15] <cradek> skunkworks_emc2: scripts/emc configdir
[22:51:25] <cradek> tells it to use the configs in configdir
[22:52:30] <Jacky^> beh ?
[22:52:34] <Jacky^> ops.. sorry
[22:53:40] <Jacky^> robin_sz: going to the next game
[22:53:44] <Jacky^> same server
[22:53:56] <skunkworks_emc2> emc2/scripts/ I dont have emc configdir
[22:58:40] <cradek> where I said configdir, you specify the config you want to use
[22:59:59] <skunkworks_emc2> ah hold on
[23:18:52] <K`zan> Got the base for the router done ! OK, made web pages out of that with a link to the next step:
http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/CNC-Router-Mechanicals/Materials/index.html
[23:19:10] <K`zan> Progress, slow but sure :-). AND I didn't burn the place down :).
[23:25:14] <robin_sz> as usual
[23:25:24] <Jacky^> Turn goes to robin_sz The game has ended! anonymous wins with a fortune of 5212!
[23:25:28] <Jacky^> great
[23:26:18] <K4ts> IMPUDENT LUCK
[23:26:23] <Jacky^> ?
[23:26:37] <K4ts> FORTUNA SFACCIATA
[23:26:40] <Jacky^> K4ts: remove the cpas
[23:26:42] <Jacky^> caps
[23:26:46] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:27:02] <K4ts> si
[23:27:03] <robin_sz> K`zan: tig welded?
[23:27:04] <Jacky^> K4ts: not at all
[23:28:41] <robin_sz> ahh, alloy brazing
[23:28:57] <skunkworks> ok - that worked - but I think alex's fix today has no effect (same as befor) darn.
[23:31:09] <K`zan> robin_sz: No, some aluminum brazing stuff I got at a hamfest YEARS ago now. Brush hell out of joint with stainless steel brush and hit it with a propane . MAPP torch until the brazing rod melts into the joint.
[23:32:17] <robin_sz> does it seem strong?
[23:32:50] <K`zan> Seems so, Cleaning up the drips with a angle grinder took some work and time - seems very tough.
[23:32:56] <robin_sz> k
[23:33:14] <robin_sz> I was consdiring having a go at a small router ...
[23:33:29] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/Tools/AngleGrinder/
[23:33:30] <robin_sz> 400m x 600 probably
[23:33:54] <K`zan> robin_sz: If this works at all well, I'll be happy, otherwise I will have learned a lot...
[23:34:16] <robin_sz> angle grinders are good
[23:34:23] <robin_sz> first ... throw away that disc
[23:34:40] <K`zan> Yeah, I suspect it is FINE.
[23:34:49] <robin_sz> replace it with a backing pad and some paper discs
[23:34:49] <K`zan> Got to go find goodies for it at some point.
[23:34:54] <robin_sz> much better and cheaper
[23:35:46] <K`zan> Place I got it (shucks auto supply) only had that, need to look around for a supplier. Not so sure how paper will hold up as it says it does 10K RPM...
[23:36:05] <robin_sz> the paper discs are fine,
[23:36:11] <robin_sz> we use them all the time ...
[23:36:14] <K`zan> (I suspect that maybe the motor does, but it is geared down, just how much I dunno).
[23:36:22] <robin_sz> they are much thicker than just normal sand paper
[23:36:32] <K`zan> Ok, thanks, I don't have an industrial budget :-).
[23:36:55] <robin_sz> yeah, well, thats why industry use them, they are cheaper than discs
[23:36:56] <K`zan> This is 10" square about 255mm square, I think.
[23:37:01] <robin_sz> right
[23:37:14] <robin_sz> well, thats quite small ...
[23:37:16] <K`zan> If this works I can do a bigger one with real steppers.
[23:37:45] <robin_sz> just remember that it will probably cost exactly the same as say a 20" square one ...
[23:37:55] <robin_sz> (within 10%)
[23:38:06] <K`zan> Just want it for smallish PCBs and perhaps some small sign engraving. More of an educational project that fits withing my budget.
[23:38:12] <robin_sz> right
[23:38:25] <robin_sz> ive never been a fan of pcb engraving ...
[23:38:37] <robin_sz> but it should be good for small signs, plaques etc
[23:38:44] <K`zan> Space is a real problem in the apartment here. Originally was going to do 24" but that got out of hand fast in here.
[23:38:50] <robin_sz> heh
[23:39:04] <K`zan> Would probably have to see if it would fit in the bathtub :).
[23:39:20] <robin_sz> what about the living room?
[23:39:45] <K`zan> Currently thinking about how to make the bracket for the steppers (floppy steppers).
[23:39:53] <robin_sz> oh
[23:39:55] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:40:01] <K`zan> Crammed alread and my roomie would shoot me :).
[23:40:02] <robin_sz> BIG floppy steppers?
[23:40:26] <robin_sz> ley me guess .. you are going to use threaded bar and a nut?
[23:41:44] <K`zan> Yes, look like the old 5/25" ones, got them from Futurlec but they seem to be out of them now.
[23:41:45] <Jacky^> uhuh
[23:41:50] <robin_sz> be real careful .....
[23:41:51] <Jacky^> http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1140301,00.html
[23:42:01] <robin_sz> very likely it wont actually move
[23:42:16] <Jacky^> why these are persons of the year :/
[23:42:44] <K`zan> robin_sz: yes, 1/4-20 with two nuts seperated by a spring.
[23:42:55] <Jacky^> id like to propose rayh as Person of the year !
[23:43:16] <Jacky^> bah
[23:43:39] <Jacky^> Person who have few zillion dollars mean nothing :(
[23:43:58] <K`zan> robin_sz: Pix taken when I was developing the drivers:
http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/v200510211607-001.jpg
[23:44:01] <Jacky^> The Good Samaritans
[23:44:03] <Jacky^> wow
[23:44:20] <Jacky^> hes called the Good Samaritans
[23:44:22] <Jacky^> O_O
[23:44:25] <K`zan> Gates, not likely, ulterior motive :)
[23:44:55] <K`zan> Only m$ person more roundly hated in WA/seattle is paul allen...
[23:45:05] <Jacky^> yeah..
[23:45:58] <Jacky^> For being shrewd about doing good, for rewiring politics and re-engineering justice,
[23:46:04] <Jacky^> incredible..
[23:46:08] <K4ts> night
[23:46:41] <Jacky^> K4ts: where you go ?
[23:46:43] <K`zan> prized have gotten to be a rather pathetic joke, all the "stars" felating themselves...
[23:46:47] <K`zan> prizes
[23:47:07] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ponders "stars felating themselves" ...
[23:47:18] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[23:47:50] <K`zan> I think I got the wrong pix, just look in that directory...
[23:48:06] <K4ts> I was waithing for you answer
[23:48:23] <K`zan> Well, those that get any air / face time seem to develop a rather disgusting importantance that is RARELY warranted.
[23:48:27] <Jacky^> K4ts: im
[23:49:00] <Jacky^> have you seen who are the 2 buoni samaritani dell'anno ?
[23:49:15] <Jacky^> K4ts: Bill and Melinda Gates
[23:49:18] <Jacky^> :)
[23:49:35] <K4ts> im non significa nulla
[23:49:42] <K4ts> visto sul traduttore
[23:49:46] <Jacky^> ci sono
[23:49:49] <Jacky^> im here
[23:49:52] <Jacky^> I sayd
[23:49:56] <K4ts> no io aspettavo risposta
[23:50:09] <K4ts> non ho detto ci sei!
[23:50:11] <Jacky^> you waiting for reply ?
[23:50:21] <Jacky^> which reply ?
[23:50:27] <Jacky^> :P
[23:50:40] <Jacky^> ok ok ..
[23:50:52] <Jacky^> ill come in naples for 25 dec.
[23:50:56] <Jacky^> I will be there
[23:50:59] <Jacky^> ok ?
[23:51:30] <Jacky^> but before ..
[23:51:39] <Jacky^> K4ts: lare you listen ?
[23:51:42] <Jacky^> are
[23:52:12] <K4ts> you have heard it is a promise!
[23:52:30] <Jacky^> I just have 1 word, you know
[23:52:41] <Jacky^> I sayd yes
[23:52:43] <Jacky^> :)
[23:52:54] <Jacky^> but, before
[23:52:57] <Jacky^> this, K4ts
[23:53:04] <Jacky^> I want to propose a meeting
[23:53:14] <K4ts> ah ah
[23:53:37] <Jacky^> between Papa Reiziger and gates family
[23:53:43] <Jacky^> in the vatican
[23:53:53] <Jacky^> what do you think about ? :D
[23:54:19] <Jacky^> a metting between saint persons
[23:54:22] <K`zan> Errands bbl
[23:54:34] <Jacky^> we could invite our first minister too
[23:54:38] <Jacky^> bauahahahaha
[23:54:41] <Jacky^> :D
[23:55:16] <Jacky^> ok K4ts .. kidding, go to bed
[23:55:22] <Jacky^> see you tomorrow ;)
[23:56:24] <K4ts> instead I invited Berlusconi
[23:56:34] <Jacky^> uhm
[23:56:43] <Jacky^> I sayd our 1 minister
[23:56:55] <Jacky^> how you called him ? O_O
[23:57:07] <Jacky^> ahh silvio
[23:57:13] <Jacky^> understood :)
[23:57:27] <K4ts> for evening of native I was missing I eighth nao
[23:57:28] <Jacky^> ok, thats the same person
[23:57:36] <Jacky^> just another saint
[23:57:46] <Jacky^> nao ?
[23:57:51] <Jacky^> whats nao ?
[23:57:51] <K4ts> nano
[23:57:58] <Jacky^> hhahaha
[23:58:02] <K4ts> il traduttore cosi mi ha detto
[23:58:06] <Jacky^> lol
[23:58:16] <Jacky^> he has not translate nano
[23:58:18] <K4ts> infatti mi senbrava strano
[23:58:20] <Jacky^> :-)
[23:58:38] <Jacky^> it
[23:58:54] <Jacky^> no, I dnont know the equivalent term of 'nano'
[23:59:00] <K4ts> dwarf
[23:59:23] <Jacky^> oh .. and 'portatore' ?
[23:59:33] <K4ts> portatore sano
[23:59:35] <K4ts> ih ih
[23:59:39] <Jacky^> nahh
[23:59:51] <Jacky^> try to translate portatore
[23:59:54] <K4ts> my dog sleep
[23:59:59] <K4ts> uff
