#emc | Logs for 2005-12-17

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[14:51:15] <les_w> morning all
[14:56:49] <wb9mjn> Hi Les...hope the ice did not get you...
[14:57:08] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[14:57:12] <Jacky^> morning all
[14:57:30] <les_w> I was ok...temperature inversion caused it...and I am up high...so warmer
[14:57:47] <wb9mjn> Checking out some cheapo ER-20 collets here...
[14:57:55] <wb9mjn> That s good....
[14:58:02] <les_w> heh took me a while to figure out the server name had changed
[14:58:56] <wb9mjn> Have the Tormach ER-20 chuck on the Schaublin...looks to be about 100 uin runout....
[14:59:18] <les_w> also....have some electricity problems. Reading 96V on one leg and 136 on the other
[14:59:25] <les_w> 100 is pretty good
[15:00:13] <les_w> 96v is just on the edge of tripping the UPS
[15:00:35] <les_w> damn neutral has a bad connection on the pole
[15:00:37] <les_w> again
[15:00:48] <wb9mjn> Gotta make a 1/2 test bar next....
[15:01:09] <wb9mjn> 1/2 inch ....
[15:01:59] <les_w> I ground my 5c in place in the spindle and it's pretty much dead nuts
[15:02:56] <wb9mjn> The Schaublin I bought cheap had the bearing replaced, apparently since the TIR was 400 uinch..Then after the bearing change it was still that bad...
[15:03:03] <wb9mjn> So, he sold it to me cheap!
[15:03:31] <wb9mjn> I noticed that the ID of the collet spindle had metal cold flow.....
[15:03:34] <les_w> hmm
[15:03:47] <wb9mjn> After years of pulling collets in...
[15:04:18] <wb9mjn> So, i took a risk and put emory cloth to it, as the metal flow was decrystallized...and should come off easily...and it did...
[15:04:28] <les_w> good to freshen it up if you have a TP grinder
[15:04:36] <wb9mjn> And now the Schaublin spindle is down around 20 uin...
[15:04:45] <wb9mjn> Got lucky!
[15:04:54] <les_w> I use alignment marks and always put it in with the same orientation
[15:05:34] <wb9mjn> The OD of the Tormach is reading about the same as the spindle, and the ID about 100 ....
[15:06:55] <wb9mjn> So, that should be OK for testing the collets which are specified at 400 uin....
[15:13:54] <lep> anyone have experience with making a cheapo desktop mill out of a china drill press?
[15:14:05] <lep> read a few sites where people have done it
[15:14:11] <lep> don't know about accuracy though
[15:15:18] <wb9mjn> Think there would be problems with the side-load on the bearings? Aren't Chinese mills cheap enought ?
[15:16:02] <lep> guess so
[15:16:03] <lep> hehe
[15:16:21] <lep> wow
[15:16:29] <lep> grizzly mini-mill is rather cheap, yeah
[15:17:41] <lep> ok, more reading proves it to not be a good idea
[15:17:54] <lep> guess I'll buy one, but I hate to buy a small one, then I'll have to buy a bigger one later :D
[15:18:27] <les_w> yeah, drill press+ xytable doesn't make a very good mill
[15:18:36] <les_w> which one?
[15:18:48] <lep> not sure yet
[15:18:52] <lep> plenty more research to do
[15:19:00] <lep> "shop around"
[15:20:26] <les_w> let me look...I have to order some stuff from griz anyway
[15:20:44] <les_w> yeah...i'm car shopping still this morning.
[15:21:02] <lep> hehe
[15:21:05] <les_w> Trying to put depreciation curves on excel
[15:21:05] <lep> I'm always car shopping
[15:21:07] <lep> need to stop
[15:22:32] <lep> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.aspx?itemnumber=G8689
[15:22:43] <lep> $537.25 after shipping
[15:22:46] <lep> not too horribly bad I guess
[15:24:52] <les_w> looks ok...the $475 mill drill looks like a standard 12 speed chinese drill press head to me
[15:25:12] <lep> yeah
[15:25:13] <lep> :/
[15:25:22] <les_w> but the mini mill looks ok
[15:25:42] <les_w> or
[15:25:53] <les_w> buy cheap chinese drill press....
[15:26:01] <les_w> replace the bearings
[15:26:13] <les_w> and use with an xy table
[15:26:18] <les_w> lotta work though
[15:26:20] <lep> yeah
[15:26:25] <lep> hardly seems worth it when I think about it
[15:26:33] <les_w> yeah
[15:27:06] <lep> kinda angry...
[15:27:35] <lep> was going to setup linux box tonight after work for EMC testing
[15:27:46] <lep> turns out I have to drive 4 hours to airport then back to pickup GF's sister
[15:29:30] <les_w> bleh
[15:29:47] <les_w> well, i'll keep car shopping
[15:29:58] <lep> what kinda car are you looking for?
[15:30:00] <les_w> I like cars.
[15:30:02] <lep> me too
[15:30:36] <les_w> this morning looking at Audi A6 vs MB CLK 320
[15:30:48] <les_w> ( i like nice cars)
[15:30:55] <lep> mmm yes nice cars
[15:31:13] <les_w> MB seems to hold value better
[15:31:33] <les_w> but I like the all wheel drive of the other
[15:31:33] <lep> A6 quattro though?
[15:31:36] <lep> yeah
[15:31:38] <les_w> yeah
[15:31:53] <lep> subarus are my thing
[15:31:56] <lep> because they're cheap
[15:32:00] <lep> drove my dad's audi for a while though
[15:32:08] <les_w> what kind?
[15:32:24] <lep> 1988 80 quattro
[15:32:27] <lep> sweet car
[15:32:46] <lep> it was on it's last legs though
[15:32:53] <les_w> I had an audi of that vintage
[15:33:00] <les_w> it was nice
[15:33:15] <lep> yeah, heated seats, 5cyl quattro with diff lock
[15:33:33] <lep> I like my xt6 though
[15:33:46] <lep> www.xt6.net
[15:33:47] <wb9mjn> I like the Prius, but its not a good car for a rural area, probably...
[15:33:52] <les_w> I am in a hilly rural area where there are no snowplows or salt
[15:34:00] <les_w> so quatro would be good
[15:34:11] <lep> prius' seem to have cardboard interior
[15:34:14] <wb9mjn> But its quite good for a metro area...
[15:34:22] <les_w> yup
[15:34:34] <wb9mjn> Yea, well that high tech requires corners cut elsewhere...
[15:34:49] <lep> look into a subaru, les_w... seriously
[15:34:50] <les_w> hybrid?
[15:35:07] <wb9mjn> Yes....it does not really have a transmission...
[15:35:21] <wb9mjn> It has two motors and a single planetary gear set...
[15:35:25] <lep> sweet
[15:35:38] <lep> I wanna setup regenerative braking on my car, and some aux electric motors
[15:35:54] <wb9mjn> The overspeed of the engine goes into MG1 (motor generator 1) , then into the battery to feed the torque for MG 2...
[15:36:16] <wb9mjn> Has been very reliable in taxi service....
[15:36:22] <lep> cool
[15:36:23] <les_w> I only have regeneration on my cnc!
[15:36:49] <wb9mjn> Its kinda an Electro Magnetic CVT ....
[15:37:06] <lep> ah like subaru justy ECVT
[15:37:14] <les_w> yeah Audi has CVT
[15:37:15] <lep> but different
[15:37:24] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/video/MVC-341W.MPG - speaking of drill press mills
[15:37:27] <skunkworks> ;)
[15:37:30] <wb9mjn> No....those were computer controlled mechanical CVT s...
[15:37:32] <les_w> looking
[15:37:41] <lep> > but different
[15:37:46] <lep> :D
[15:40:41] <les_w> I'm still rewiring the router for the new spindle
[15:41:13] <les_w> it's a pain because some of the existing conduit won't hold the fat power cable
[15:42:03] <les_w> also...european electrical condiut and junction box connectors are a proble
[15:42:17] <les_w> had to make one on the lathe yesterday
[15:42:33] <les_w> that was a time waster.
[15:43:20] <les_w> for the spindle I have to run 3 phase 0-400 hz 240v
[15:43:37] <les_w> separate single phase 240 for cooling fan
[15:44:00] <les_w> and two more wires back to the vfd for overtemp sensor
[15:46:29] <wb9mjn> So far these collets are not looking good....JL Value line...1/2 inch ER20 collet read 700 uin runout...
[15:47:43] <les_w> that's a lot
[15:47:50] <les_w> a whole lot
[15:48:08] <les_w> snap it in the nut first?
[15:48:13] <wb9mjn> Yep....
[15:48:57] <les_w> I have not measured the er25 in the new spindle
[15:49:09] <wb9mjn> Yes, that s allot...
[15:49:22] <les_w> but it had runout measured at the factory
[15:49:30] <les_w> forgot the number
[15:49:41] <wb9mjn> Thought there might be an issue when collets in the same packaging were on Ebay for $50 to $100 ...
[15:49:43] <les_w> .002 mm TIR I think
[15:50:04] <wb9mjn> Spec is .0004 inch for DIN 6499 I believe...
[15:50:21] <les_w> I got some 5c collets from griz that were all better than300 or so
[15:50:38] <les_w> chep too
[15:50:41] <les_w> cheap
[15:51:03] <wb9mjn> On phone with brother....
[15:51:20] <les_w> ...still car shopping np
[15:54:49] <les_w> oooh...
[15:54:52] <les_w> http://www.globalmotorsportsinc.com/shared/viewer.aspx?&iid=746033&src=eBay&pid=19
[15:55:03] <les_w> pity they break so much huh?
[15:59:09] <lep> yeah don't think I'd buy a jag
[16:03:30] <SWPadnos> I think they break less now that they're Fords
[16:04:18] <les_w> anyway, I have a problem...I only buy german cars. I worked a lot of years doing automotive engineering, and the german companies beat me up the most.
[16:04:23] <les_w> very demending
[16:04:29] <les_w> demanding
[16:06:40] <SWPadnos> demeaning :)
[16:07:01] <alex_joni> hello
[16:07:04] <les_w> haha
[16:07:39] <les_w> last work I did was setting up some new painting technology for the BMW clearcoat line
[16:08:08] <SWPadnos> I guess BMW is your only option
[16:08:11] <skunkworks> alex - got the steppers singing finally. 2 problems - wrong logic chip (needed to be an inverter not buffer open colector) and over driving the stepping motor.
[16:08:23] <SWPadnos> unless you consider Daimler-Chrysler-Mercedes-Benz a german car still
[16:08:25] <alex_joni> skunkworks: glad it works now ;)
[16:08:38] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: VAG ;)
[16:08:43] <les_w> SMP: already have one.
[16:08:46] <skunkworks> now I can goof around with emc2 and axis
[16:08:46] <SWPadnos> same to you!
[16:08:58] <alex_joni> VAG = VolksWagen Audi Group
[16:09:15] <SWPadnos> ok - I thought it was a yiddish word ;)
[16:09:20] <les_w> heh
[16:09:24] <SWPadnos> (not that I remember much Yiddish)
[16:09:29] <alex_joni> also Seat, Skoda,
[16:09:35] <alex_joni> Skoda is the greatest imho
[16:09:40] <les_w> VAG has the best interiors in the business
[16:09:43] <alex_joni> it's just VW but for half the price
[16:09:44] <SWPadnos> must be available for sale in the US
[16:10:11] <alex_joni> should be :P
[16:10:13] <SWPadnos> VW and Audi certainly are, I'm not sure about the others
[16:10:25] <SWPadnos> well yeah, there are a lot of things that "should be" here ;)
[16:10:28] <les_w> I never worked with them though, except selling the heated mirrors
[16:10:44] <les_w> that is the only content I have in VAG cars
[16:13:13] <les_w> I am noticing here that VAG cars seem to have much higher depreciation. Why?
[16:13:22] <Imperator_> a headed mirror would be nice at my old Golf !!! It gets colder here in germany this days
[16:13:33] <alex_joni> hi Martin
[16:13:36] <Imperator_> heated
[16:13:40] <Imperator_> Hi laex
[16:13:44] <Imperator_> Alex
[16:13:45] <Imperator_> arg
[16:13:50] <alex_joni> :))
[16:14:04] <SWPadnos> Hi Martin
[16:14:08] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you went to bed last night.. right?
[16:14:10] <lep> I was contemplating a saabaru
[16:14:11] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:14:12] <alex_joni> think it was before me
[16:14:13] <lep> for the lower insurance
[16:14:18] <lep> it's a saab with WRX drivetrain
[16:14:25] <lep> and ugly exterior... like a saab
[16:14:26] <les_w> Martin, want a laugh? cost of the selfregulating heater is about $0.25
[16:14:28] <alex_joni> ok.. was wondering what the guy from Hawaii did..
[16:14:32] <lep> but insurance would be like half the price of WRX or STI
[16:14:38] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[16:14:41] <Imperator_> nice Les
[16:15:47] <dmess> saabaru??? have a site les??
[16:16:03] <les_w> When I developed that product I had to develop a way to make it too. The line I made is a giant closed loop servo
[16:16:15] <Jacky^> :-)
[16:16:23] <SWPadnos> alex_joni: he didn't say anything after you left, so I'm not sure where he stands now
[16:16:41] <Jacky^> im really thinking to buy an horse :P
[16:16:59] <Imperator_> im with you les, I buy also only german cars. But it was only one up to now. Now it is 15 years old at it stops only once because the fuel was out
[16:17:17] <fenn> Jacky^: a horse would be in the same range as a bmw i reckon
[16:17:23] <alex_joni> oh my.. I would love one of these: http://www.skoda-auto.com/global/showroom/concepts/yetiII/home.htm
[16:17:26] <lep> well.. saabaru.. don't remember what saab model it is
[16:17:32] <lep> but it is a saab with a subaru WRX drivetrain
[16:17:40] <Jacky^> toyota produces a nice machine (electric) up to 50 km/h
[16:17:40] <lep> if you take it to the dealer for service.. they order parts from subaru
[16:17:46] <les_w> my 325i was/is amazingly reliable
[16:17:53] <les_w> VAg MAY NOT BE
[16:18:06] <lep> http://www.azcentral.com/class/marketplace/cars/0612wheels12saabintro.html
[16:18:10] <les_w> oops keystick
[16:18:17] <lep> saab 9-2x aero
[16:18:30] <alex_joni> les_w: this one for you: http://www.skoda-auto.com/global/aid/news/newoctavia/2005_03_rs.htm
[16:18:32] <Jacky^> thats is ok to go on many city centres here around
[16:18:35] <Jacky^> all days
[16:19:45] <Jacky^> otherwise you cant go in city like rome, milan, florence, naples
[16:20:11] <les_w> alex: it's a Jetta?
[16:21:19] <alex_joni> les_w: more like a passat
[16:23:24] <alex_joni> les_w: we got one of these at work: http://www.skoda-auto.com/global/showroom/octavia/
[16:24:23] <Jacky^> my brother had a very bad experience with opel astra
[16:24:34] <les_w> was looking at 360 interior view
[16:24:37] <les_w> nice!
[16:24:39] <Jacky^> he changed 3 motors, without sole his issue
[16:24:43] <Imperator_> opel -> american car :-)
[16:24:44] <Jacky^> solve*
[16:24:45] <les_w> wow
[16:24:48] <alex_joni> les_w: it is very nice
[16:24:56] <alex_joni> les_w: and it's pretty cheap too
[16:25:00] <alex_joni> about 20k $
[16:25:05] <alex_joni> the combi
[16:25:05] <Jacky^> he always had water cooler issue
[16:25:26] <Jacky^> also know astra motors are maed in japan
[16:25:31] <alex_joni> les_w: but I see they only have south & central america dealers :D
[16:25:36] <Jacky^> at least for diesel version we tried
[16:25:37] <alex_joni> none in the US
[16:26:14] <dmess> looks like a nice ride..
[16:26:29] <les_w> I wish we could get the diesels offered in Europe over here
[16:26:34] <fenn> fenn has changed the topic to: cars
[16:26:34] <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home: www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller"
[16:26:53] <les_w> haha
[16:26:58] <Jacky^> :D
[16:27:08] <fenn> i hate cars
[16:27:22] <Jacky^> you havent seen the next generation car by fiat ..
[16:27:28] <Jacky^> the new croma :/
[16:27:36] <dmess> all we gotta do is get a crate of them shipped over les
[16:27:43] <SWP_Away> well - that didn't work, did it
[16:27:50] <alex_joni> alex_joni has changed the topic to: 'cars'
[16:27:55] <fenn> thanks alex
[16:28:00] <alex_joni> fenn: :P
[16:28:05] <Jacky^> when at a conference the actionist have heard croma.. they say ' again this damn croma !?'
[16:28:08] <alex_joni> alex_joni has changed the topic to: "Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home: www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developers' meetings every Sunday 14:00-18:00 GMT | wiki up @ http://wiki.linuxcnc.org | EMC usage map: http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller"
[16:28:27] <Jacky^> 2 of they have opened the window ..
[16:28:29] <Jacky^> lol
[16:29:00] <Jacky^> a fly of 20 meters :/
[16:29:37] <dmess> to where did you fly
[16:29:43] <Jacky^> morning mr rayh :)
[16:30:11] <Jacky^> dmess: next succes will be ...
[16:30:11] <alex_joni> les_w: tell me it's not looking nice http://www.skoda-auto.com/NR/rdonlyres/B2D011C8-0621-43B5-933E-576621B1E086/0/03.jpg
[16:30:22] <rayh> Heavy on the mr. mr Jacky^
[16:30:25] <Jacky^> im not so curagious ..
[16:30:42] <Jacky^> I dont know if should I say it to you :(
[16:30:43] <dmess> what are you flying?>??
[16:30:49] <Jacky^> will called
[16:30:54] <Jacky^> Ziguli'
[16:30:57] <Jacky^> ghghghg
[16:31:00] <Jacky^> :(������
[16:31:34] <Jacky^> dmess: i never flyed, i like to surf :)
[16:31:52] <Jacky^> I prefer boats on cars
[16:31:59] <dmess> oh the try kite surfing... its a blast
[16:32:36] <dmess> big waves and big wings are the best
[16:32:47] <Jacky^> love australia for that
[16:32:54] <dmess> long linnin'
[16:32:59] <Jacky^> i like sport like surf
[16:33:35] <dmess> i do some of alot of strange things
[16:34:31] <dmess> hang glide / paraglide kayak catameran rock climb
[16:34:55] <alex_joni> dmess: all at once?
[16:35:09] <Jacky^> I remember a nice film: POINT BREAK
[16:35:17] <Jacky^> adrenaline pure
[16:35:30] <dmess> im obsessive compulsive... cant you telll
[16:37:00] <dmess> check out VERTICAL LIMIT... for adrenaline
[16:37:10] <Jacky^> wonder if australian beach really have the big waves
[16:37:52] <dmess> they do so... a flyin' buddy from ther longs for certain times there
[16:38:59] <Jacky^> that really mean to challenge nature :P
[16:40:32] <dmess> we fly unpowerd aircraft... we challenge gravity every time we launch... ounce youve wone a few you start to feel like god... with a small g
[16:41:14] <Jacky^> cool 8)
[16:41:29] <lep> http://political.moveon.org/patriotact/
[16:42:00] <Jacky^> lep: I already read that in it news
[16:46:57] <CIA-6> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/configs/ (6 files in 6 dirs): First draft of config README files.
[16:48:01] <dmess> les what your PATRIOT act entail??
[16:49:06] <fenn> dmess: you havent heard of it?
[16:50:09] <dmess> i am CANADIAN
[16:50:22] <SWP_Away> smart man
[16:50:27] <lep> http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=23
[16:50:42] <dmess> im dealin' with pickin' a new regime right now...
[16:52:24] <dmess> fuck you cant ban "sunset"
[16:52:35] <dmess> sorry..
[16:53:57] <dmess> yeah we are going to need a passport to get into the states.... but you wont need one to come here... sure
[16:54:41] <lep> I was told if I go into canada without passport, if I try to get back into US I won't be able to
[16:54:46] <lep> I live 30min from US/CA border
[16:54:57] <lep> but honestly, getting back into the US is the least of my concerns
[16:55:02] <lep> if I'm fleeing to .ca
[16:55:12] <dmess> admission is free.... you pay to leave..
[16:55:35] <Jymmm> lol
[16:55:42] <Jacky^> strange ..
[16:56:02] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm
[16:56:06] <Jymmm> hi
[16:56:11] <dmess> same as the us does with the mexicans
[16:56:23] <lep> we're building a fence on .mx border
[16:56:28] <lep> from pacific to gulf of mexico
[16:56:32] <lep> read it in the news yesterday
[16:56:46] <dmess> good luck kids... LOL...
[16:56:49] <Jacky^> a new wall ? O_O
[16:57:02] <Jymmm> what a waste of time/money
[16:57:36] <lep> yeah
[16:57:37] <lep> sucks
[16:57:47] <dmess> there was a tunnel dug from british columbia .ca to washington state to haul BC BUDZ to the us
[16:58:00] <lep> bush wants $1.5B to rebuild new orleans levees too
[16:58:03] <lep> haha dmess
[16:58:11] <lep> there are trails through the woods, too ;)
[16:58:25] <Jymmm> sheeeeeeeeeeeeeet..... you don't build below sea level
[16:58:31] <dmess> house to house 1700m long
[16:59:50] <Jymmm> I want to go to that place at the US/CA border where there is nothing but this lil two lane road and a really small sign
[16:59:53] <dmess> we dont nee no dam inspectors.... if your house is downstream from the dam your ass is up there lookin' for cracks..
[17:00:15] <lep> jymmm... my brother and I went to montreal one time
[17:00:28] <Jymmm> lep is that where it's at?
[17:00:38] <lep> and the border crossing we went through WAS a two lane road, with one shack, with one border guard, and he didn't check our ID's or ask any questions
[17:00:45] <lep> north of malone new york on route 30N
[17:00:48] <lep> iirc
[17:00:51] <lep> brb work
[17:01:05] <Jymmm> no, this didn't have any guard or shack or anything
[17:01:08] <dmess> the place is called st Zacharie ..south on Quebec city a little single lane bridge into maine
[17:02:32] <wb9mjn> U agree with the fence, but an even more expensive way to deal with that issue would be 1 year jail time .... That is probably only way to get things under control..
[17:02:42] <wb9mjn> Take away money making capability for a year....
[17:03:02] <wb9mjn> I mean I agree with the fence...
[17:03:35] <dmess> i like the 30 cent 3000fps solution personally... but thats the sniper in me talkin
[17:03:48] <wb9mjn> Having illegals able to try 4 times a week is a loosing proposition...Gota make it one time a year....
[17:04:09] <lep> screw paying for them to be in jail
[17:04:42] <Jymmm> illegal crossing to work in the US doesn't bother me, it's the millions in coke/speed/etc that's another story
[17:04:43] <lep> that's expensive
[17:04:44] <dmess> 30 cents and 30 seconds of concentration... from 300 yards....
[17:04:56] <wb9mjn> That will force things into a legalized situation, and the buisness owners will be signing up with INS, to get workers, rather than the INS raiding buisnesses to get workers...
[17:05:23] <wb9mjn> Yea, jail time is the most expensive solution...but the only one I can think of that puts negative feedback into the system...
[17:05:56] <wb9mjn> Are we serious about security ?
[17:06:10] <dmess> you pop a few dozzen on monday mornin and see how many show up for the afternoon try..
[17:06:52] <dmess> straff for effect only of course...
[17:07:04] <wb9mjn> And the lawyers should all be for jail time, as their services will be highly sought after....should be able to get the idea through the republican congress...
[17:08:08] <fenn> wb9mjn: why not just jail the employers?
[17:08:12] <fenn> it'd be cheaper!
[17:08:33] <wb9mjn> Because the employers employ some legals...
[17:08:48] <wb9mjn> But, yea, after things are changed, that should be done too...
[17:08:58] <fenn> fuck, just jail everyone
[17:09:09] <wb9mjn> And the government is not going to jail their gravy train...
[17:09:55] <wb9mjn> Employers have money to fight jail time...which will just slow things down again....
[17:10:31] <fenn> you must be strict. it's for the good of our great nation
[17:10:59] <wb9mjn> The thing with jailing employers is that its not going to stop illegals from coming....because they get false documents, and once tendered the employer is off the hook...legally...
[17:11:38] <wb9mjn> So, the employer can get away with employing illegals, legally....
[17:12:21] <wb9mjn> Even if he knows fair well he is probably employing illegals...and once the employer down the block gets away with it, all the other employers are at a competitive disadvantage...
[17:12:36] <wb9mjn> Which is positive feedback....
[17:12:52] <wb9mjn> I know..sounds like social engineering...
[17:13:04] <fenn> wb9mjn: you are missing the point of the whole situation
[17:13:14] <fenn> employers _want_ illegal workers
[17:13:24] <wb9mjn> Hell,,some of the illegals are even quite good at what they do...
[17:13:37] <fenn> our law system is based on the idea that "capitalism is right"
[17:13:58] <Jacky^> capitalism seem right to me
[17:14:02] <Jacky^> why not ?
[17:14:06] <wb9mjn> Only becuse the guy down the street has them...What they want is workers, and its not a fair market if the guy down the street gets them for 1/3 he does...
[17:14:26] <Jacky^> inst right capitalism founded on debits, like here is happening
[17:14:39] <wb9mjn> Well, it is, in a fair market...the problem is that laws are set up to make things fair, and illegal aliens make the market unfair...
[17:14:52] <fenn> Jacky^: the problem is that a powerful business can manipulate the laws, and then there is no longer a fair market
[17:15:04] <Jacky^> fenn: already know ..
[17:15:20] <Jacky^> im fighting with a video
[17:15:26] <Jacky^> http://www.triburibelli.org/sito/modules/MyAnnonces/index.php?pa=viewannonces&lid=6627
[17:15:44] <wb9mjn> Thats right fenn, which is why we do not have 1 year jail time for illegals by now...Big Buisness and Big Politics joined forces, and got elected...
[17:15:44] <Jacky^> all peoples around the world have seen this video
[17:15:53] <Jacky^> except italian peoples ! doh ..
[17:16:00] <fenn> the business men want to have a second class citizen, but they can't legally get away with it because of that pesky constitution
[17:16:02] <Jacky^> it has been censured
[17:16:12] <Jacky^> information mean power
[17:16:12] <Jymmm> Eh... Welcome to the 51st State.... Mexico!
[17:16:21] <fenn> Jymmm: why not?
[17:16:43] <Jymmm> fenn: souds good to me, some beautiful lands down there.
[17:16:51] <fenn> Jymmm: we all know, the reason is that mexico doesn't have all those pesky laws
[17:16:54] <Jymmm> Rosarita Beach comes to mind
[17:17:07] <fenn> heh.. land of pet rocks
[17:17:09] <Jymmm> fenn: Thanks goodness =)
[17:17:27] <Jymmm> but sewage treatment plants either.
[17:17:32] <Jymmm> ^no
[17:18:16] <fenn> Jymmm: no need for them.. you can just dump your waste into the river
[17:18:25] <Jymmm> lol
[17:18:27] <fenn> it's cheaper that way
[17:18:27] <wb9mjn> Nope, 52 state...51 is Superior, where Ray lives...
[17:18:44] <fenn> wb9mjn: heh ever heard of "the jefferson state"
[17:19:02] <wb9mjn> Nope...
[17:19:34] <fenn> http://www.jeffersonstate.com/
[17:19:55] <Jacky^> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/berlusconi/
[17:20:13] <Jacky^> we need to learn more to understand how the world go on
[17:20:53] <Jacky^> and maybe look back to the story too
[17:21:49] <dmess> just dont look nort for your next state... ; )===~~~~
[17:21:54] <dmess> north
[17:22:19] <wb9mjn> Western Ontario is nice..hi hi...
[17:22:43] <fenn> dmess: i thought the whole point of canada was that it's not the US
[17:22:47] <dmess> i come from north-eastern ontario
[17:22:57] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ looks at australia as the latest hope :/
[17:23:04] <dmess> you got that right..
[17:23:13] <wb9mjn> Not allot up there but fishing lodges...
[17:23:17] <Jymmm> We should just give up IL to canada and take MX as the "NEW" 50th state.
[17:23:35] <dmess> we dont want IL
[17:23:42] <wb9mjn> I would actually like to have nationalized medecine...
[17:24:07] <dmess> we had everything down to DC and gave it back once already...
[17:24:27] <Jymmm> oh no, IL would be a bastard state of Canada... no rights would be granted.
[17:24:57] <Jymmm> s/state/province/
[17:25:14] <dmess> we have a bastard child named Quebec already no room at the dinner table for 2
[17:25:28] <Jymmm> dmess what about the kiddy table?
[17:25:45] <Jymmm> or fido scraps
[17:25:52] <dmess> thats where the teritorries sit
[17:26:04] <wb9mjn> I am 1/4 canadian, actually...french...
[17:26:04] <dmess> sp??
[17:26:07] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[17:26:14] <fenn> what's the new province called?
[17:26:24] <dmess> pas vrais??
[17:26:24] <Jymmm> fenn Chicago
[17:26:54] <fenn> it's an indian word, like Ununt or something
[17:27:06] <dmess> nunavut
[17:27:16] <Jacky^> Ubuntu ?
[17:27:18] <Jacky^> :P
[17:27:23] <wb9mjn> Nope, do not speak french...besides arcadian accent is very different french anyway, if I had learned it from my granmother...
[17:27:24] <Jymmm> where did CA find new land?
[17:27:24] <dmess> its actually iniut
[17:27:34] <Jacky^> Jymmm: here
[17:27:44] <dmess> we walked aliitle further north
[17:27:46] <Jymmm> in italy?
[17:27:50] <Jacky^> yes
[17:27:52] <Jymmm> dmess lol
[17:27:59] <Jacky^> we are odience
[17:28:02] <Jacky^> share TV
[17:28:12] <Jacky^> numbers.. not citizens :)
[17:28:15] <wb9mjn> Chicago is indian for "smelly onions"...
[17:28:41] <dmess> land of the little sticks.... turns into land of no fargin' sticks
[17:29:10] <Jacky^> Jymmm: here you can find the best parner
[17:29:14] <Jacky^> partner*
[17:30:25] <Jacky^> we just learn to change everiything in a live show
[17:30:36] <dmess> yes but after too many days "on the land" your guide Nanuc starts lookin mighty fine in the perpetual darkness of the 4 month winter
[17:30:39] <Jacky^> everything here is cinema and tv
[17:30:42] <Jacky^> :)
[17:32:08] <Jacky^> Jymmm: whatch the video on this page: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/berlusconi/#
[17:32:15] <Jacky^> youll understand all
[17:32:19] <Jacky^> ;)
[17:44:24] <SWPadnos> hey Jymmm - looks like Embedded Systems Conference is in your hometown next year
[17:51:26] <Jymmm> SWPadnos url?
[17:51:34] <SWPadnos> www.esconline.com
[17:54:12] <Jymmm> $1895 ?!
[17:54:31] <SWPadnos> that's for the full conference
[17:54:40] <SWPadnos> 5 days of classes and stuff
[17:54:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos only way I'll be goin is with a comp pass.
[17:54:49] <SWPadnos> you can get an exhibit pass for free
[17:55:07] <SWPadnos> or sign up for shorter conference packages for $395 and up
[17:55:13] <SWPadnos> get your company to pay for it ;)
[17:55:58] <Jymmm> Like I said... $1895 ?!
[17:57:12] <SWPadnos> that's cheap for a week of classes
[17:57:28] <SWPadnos> but if it's not worth it to you, then it doesn't really matter
[17:57:52] <SWPadnos> I'll most likely be there - maybe you and petev and I can get together for dinner or something
[17:59:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I dun know.... 3 miles seems awefully far =)
[17:59:20] <SWPadnos> yeah - nowhere near as far as 3000 miles ;)
[18:00:17] <Jymmm> my bad... 2.5 miles (apx 3 minutes)
[18:00:33] <SWPadnos> you're that close to the convention center - bummer ;)
[18:00:43] <dmess> les_w ... you around
[18:00:55] <SWPadnos> I'd ask if I could stay with you, but sleeping on a router would be so uncomfortable
[18:01:13] <fenn> swp you get a nice comfy layer of sawdust at least
[18:01:20] <SWPadnos> well - that's true
[18:01:52] <Jymmm> and some MDF sawdust too.... great for the lungs.
[18:02:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos What kind of food do you like?
[18:02:43] <SWPadnos> almost everything
[18:03:01] <dmess> any one with thin dense chrome or sulfamate nickel plating knowledge??
[18:03:05] <SWPadnos> chinese, indian, thai, italian, french, german, English ...
[18:03:15] <Jymmm> Mexican?
[18:03:21] <SWPadnos> and of course, there's the House of Prime Rib in SF - gotta go there
[18:03:32] <fenn> SWP_Away: english? are you serious?
[18:03:33] <Jymmm> haven't been there myself.
[18:03:34] <SWPadnos> yes, mexican, chilean, african, ...
[18:03:48] <SWPadnos> if you like prime rib - it's the best place i've ever been
[18:04:31] <SWPadnos> moroccan, japanese (sushi is one of my favorites)
[18:05:12] <dmess> i ate enuf bait as a kid... i HATE sushi now...
[18:05:14] <Jymmm> I'm not fond enough about sushi to pay those prices. But I do know of a All you can eat Sushi place.
[18:05:55] <SWPadnos> that's my kind of thing, unless the sushi isn't good
[18:06:08] <Jymmm> It's a very popular place from what I hear.
[18:06:25] <SWPadnos> there was a place near the convention center that had reasonable prices - near the Best Western, I think
[18:06:37] <Jymmm> I really like hole in the wall places, personally.
[18:06:51] <SWPadnos> yep - good food, good prices, less pretentious
[18:06:57] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^dinner
[18:07:42] <dmess> the best GREEK souvlaki on the planet comes from the ASTORIA on the danforth in Toronto...
[18:08:01] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - greek is good too ;)
[18:08:54] <dmess> i sent my wife on a trip to greece to do recon... she got there and everyone said to go to where we had dinner 2 nights before she left
[18:09:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I know of a great mexican hole in the wall - we eat there way too much =) And just found a all you cna eat indian that wasn't too shabby at all... The Tandori Chicken was good, the Curry Chicken was to die for! I dont' like lamb, but it was really good as well. Maybe 10 tables in the whole place in a tiny strip mall.
[18:09:52] <SWPadnos> cool by me
[18:10:02] <dmess> i give up .... didnt join her ther a friend had to go get her out of dodge... 3rd degree sunburns
[18:11:25] <dmess> jerked chicken hole in-the -wall place i still dream of..it scarboro
[18:11:37] <Jymmm> heh
[18:11:46] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - jamaican, cuban, ...
[18:11:54] <dmess> walk thru business
[18:12:56] <dmess> i had a chinese/guyanan partner that showed me lotsa small "clubs" for good lunches...
[18:14:07] <dmess> they jerk or curry EVERY/ANY thing
[18:15:04] <SWPadnos> Jerk Apples - that would be weird
[18:16:13] <dmess> they put them in salad bro....
[18:16:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: FWIW... when I moved to the bay area about 13 years ago, I found ALL the food to be crap (compared to places in SoCal), It's taken me a long time to find anything that resembles food (sad as that is). I usually hate driving in the city (SF), but only know of one place Afgahni place that is more appitisers like - very good.
[18:17:20] <SWPadnos> kind of like a Tapas place?
[18:17:30] <Jymmm> say what?
[18:17:35] <djb_rh> why can't everyone be happy with a good burger?
[18:17:38] <djb_rh> * djb_rh ducks
[18:17:45] <SWPadnos> Tapas - the mexican small fare - like dim sum
[18:17:56] <Jymmm> djb_rh: I would be, but even the In-n-Out's in NoCal REALLY SUCK
[18:18:06] <SWPadnos> I'm happy with a good burger ;)
[18:18:07] <djb_rh> how can an In-n-Out suck???
[18:18:15] <SWPadnos> I did mention american, didn't I
[18:18:19] <djb_rh> I've only been to two, but they were in NoCal
[18:18:29] <djb_rh> err, technically I've been to one
[18:18:30] <djb_rh> twice
[18:18:31] <djb_rh> :)
[18:18:40] <djb_rh> I think it was in Merced
[18:18:47] <SWPadnos> Carl's Junior - now *that's* a burger
[18:18:54] <Jymmm> djb_rh The meat is tinier, has a rubbery taste.
[18:18:55] <djb_rh> Carl's Junior?
[18:18:59] <SWPadnos> not great, but big
[18:19:01] <djb_rh> that's just Hardees in disguise
[18:19:06] <djb_rh> yeah, it's not bad
[18:19:13] <djb_rh> Five Guys is another good burger chain
[18:19:15] <djb_rh> started in DC
[18:19:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Carl's ONLY if 30 seconds fresh off the grill
[18:19:22] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:19:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos which it NEVER is
[18:19:40] <SWPadnos> onoly during the rudh (if they ever have one)
[18:19:42] <djb_rh> sure it is...just order it different than standard
[18:19:42] <Jymmm> though, the texas toothpicks are tasty
[18:19:44] <SWPadnos> rush
[18:20:01] <Jymmm> djb_rh No, the precook theri meat and toss it in a container
[18:20:06] <djb_rh> oh
[18:20:08] <djb_rh> that sucks
[18:20:12] <Jymmm> yep
[18:20:14] <djb_rh> I don't eat there much if I can help it
[18:20:24] <djb_rh> we've got a local small chain called Char-Grill that's awesome
[18:20:28] <djb_rh> and Five Guys is almost as good
[18:20:31] <dmess> we got a MR Burger that still sells a 1959 style real meat burger... with real potatoe fries and REAL onion rings... for 5.50 canadian
[18:20:56] <Jymmm> that's cheap
[18:21:12] <Jymmm> Can't get out of Joack in the box or Carls for less than $8
[18:21:14] <Jymmm> US
[18:21:16] <Jymmm> USD
[18:21:57] <Jymmm> And the one place that actually has a good burger, is like $8 JSUT for the burger alone. That's just wrong.
[18:22:26] <djb_rh> so of what use is a 1HP 230V VFD if they have to be derated? is there such a thing as a 230V 3 phase motor that's like 1/2HP?
[18:22:42] <djb_rh> I mean in terms of using it as a phase converter
[18:22:46] <dmess> oh for Mr Burger is the GM burger house of choice...
[18:24:24] <fenn> djb_rh: hack it's guts open and hook your solar power bank to the DC bus?
[18:24:47] <dmess> General Motors autoplex is 5 minutes from there and they deliver... ; )
[18:24:50] <djb_rh> hmm
[18:24:57] <djb_rh> I'd need to go buy a big solar power bank first!
[18:25:11] <djb_rh> hacking would be interesting, though
[18:25:13] <fenn> or, well, you could have a rockin' inverter for your car
[18:25:22] <djb_rh> for the car?
[18:25:23] <dmess> hack its guts out and feel "better"
[18:25:32] <djb_rh> wouldn't even the DC bus need fairly hefty voltage?
[18:25:40] <fenn> oh, right, damn
[18:26:06] <SWPadnos> yes -I have a 1/2 or 3/4 HP 3-phase 230V motor
[18:26:36] <djb_rh> need a VFD for it? :)
[18:26:45] <SWPadnos> I have a 1HP VFD already ;)
[18:26:52] <djb_rh> heh
[18:26:53] <djb_rh> damn you!
[18:26:54] <djb_rh> :)
[18:26:55] <SWPadnos> i't s quite useful for a bench grinder or bandsaw
[18:27:00] <djb_rh> yeah
[18:27:03] <djb_rh> hmm
[18:27:09] <SWPadnos> I intend to put the VFD on my bandsaw
[18:27:12] <djb_rh> I do enjoy being able to slow a grinder
[18:27:20] <djb_rh> maybe I should buy a 3 phase motor and build one
[18:28:03] <SWPadnos> small 3-ph motors are really cheap on eBay -I got a washdown duty motor (Baldor) for $35 or so, delivered (and $25 was delivery)
[18:28:12] <SWPadnos> the trouble is getting dual shafts
[18:28:13] <djb_rh> hmm
[18:28:18] <djb_rh> yeah
[18:28:21] <SWPadnos> and the shields and stuff
[18:28:23] <djb_rh> that isn't a requirement, but sure is nice
[18:28:35] <djb_rh> I really want a "toolmaking" grinder
[18:28:42] <djb_rh> with the nice adjustable table and such
[18:28:43] <SWPadnos> I got a nice Daytom 3-ph grinder on eBay for $65, including delivery
[18:28:47] <djb_rh> and I haven't seen just a table for sale
[18:28:51] <SWPadnos> nope
[18:29:11] <djb_rh> I could make something, I suppose
[18:29:20] <SWPadnos> but then, I already have a 5HP phase converter, so I wouldn't need to derate the VFD ;)
[18:29:35] <djb_rh> oh, this surplus place where I got the VFDs ($10 each, new in the box) also has a LOT of grinding wheels
[18:29:46] <SWPadnos> what brand VFD?
[18:29:52] <djb_rh> Benshaw
[18:30:02] <djb_rh> I accidentally bought several 460V ones
[18:30:03] <djb_rh> :(
[18:30:04] <SWPadnos> hmm - never heard of them
[18:30:10] <djb_rh> www.benshaw.com
[18:30:10] <SWPadnos> bummer
[18:30:15] <djb_rh> looks like decent stuff
[18:30:22] <SWPadnos> I got an Allen Bradley, and a Mitsubishi
[18:30:41] <djb_rh> yeah, I also got a 5HP Square-D and a 2HP GE
[18:30:43] <djb_rh> both 230V
[18:30:55] <djb_rh> and one 3HP Benshaw 230V, and the two 1HP 230V ones
[18:31:06] <SWPadnos> ah - cool
[18:31:11] <les_w> I'm still wiring mine. Having to change the conduit though....new fat wires won'yt fit
[18:31:13] <djb_rh> in 460V I have 2HP, 5HP, 2 7.5HP, and a 10HP
[18:31:16] <SWPadnos> sounds like a good deal, especially if they were all $10 each
[18:31:27] <djb_rh> the 7.5's and the 10 were $20 each
[18:31:37] <les_w> wow
[18:31:40] <SWPadnos> yeah - the heatsinks are probably worth that
[18:31:43] <djb_rh> if EMC hackers can use them I was going to pass them on
[18:31:50] <djb_rh> but I mean *use* them, not sell them. :)
[18:32:07] <SWPadnos> 460 is tough, but some of those work at 230 or 460, they just pass through whatever they're fed with
[18:32:09] <les_w> Heck I just paid $540 for a 5
[18:32:36] <djb_rh> SWPadnos: I'm guessing the Benshaw's don't...they have both 230V and 460V models listed separately in the manual
[18:32:43] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:32:55] <djb_rh> although the output side does say "zero to Input Voltage"
[18:33:04] <SWPadnos> it may be possible to convert them though - by changing some resistors (or software)
[18:33:28] <djb_rh> hmm
[18:33:31] <djb_rh> maybe I should send an email
[18:33:33] <SWPadnos> there's some feedback path for the control circuitry to use, changing that may make it work
[18:33:36] <djb_rh> having a 10HP VFD would be nice
[18:33:52] <SWPadnos> it would be 5HP at 230V - the current rating would be the same
[18:34:12] <djb_rh> true
[18:34:24] <djb_rh> I wonder if I could get the power company to give me 460V single phase
[18:34:30] <SWPadnos> ha!
[18:34:31] <djb_rh> I know I can't get three phase
[18:34:43] <djb_rh> I guess that's a no. :)
[18:34:47] <SWPadnos> probably not
[18:34:54] <fenn> well, then what?
[18:35:05] <fenn> i mean, how many 460V motors you got laying around?
[18:35:07] <SWPadnos> it's probably possible, but they probably don't have a rate plan for 460V 1-ph
[18:35:24] <djb_rh> oh yeah
[18:35:24] <djb_rh> duh
[18:35:31] <SWPadnos> most 3-ph motors can be wired for 230 or 460
[18:35:44] <djb_rh> hey, so it probably can't hurt to hook a 460V one up to 230V and see what happens
[18:35:57] <SWPadnos> all of the 6 or so that I have are like that, and some also offer other voltages
[18:36:00] <djb_rh> I have fire extenguishers handy. :)
[18:36:02] <fenn> worst case scenario is it blows up and kills you
[18:36:30] <djb_rh> sweet
[18:38:49] <fenn> http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/longarc.htm
[18:39:01] <rayh> djb_rh: They work fine only you get half power or a bit less.
[18:39:16] <rayh> don't try it the other way round.
[18:39:43] <djb_rh> oh, putting 460V to a 230V unit? no way. I'm smarter than that. :)
[18:50:20] <Jacky^dinner> Jacky^dinner is now known as Jacky^
[19:00:56] <CIA-6> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ppmc.c: Changed encoder latching back to slave-only. The master mode seems to always latch on a timer, which can cause following errors. Also added a delt output pin to the encoders.
[19:12:56] <djb_rh> that surplus place had a 1.5kW DC motor
[19:13:08] <djb_rh> looked like fun if you had a 180V DC supply sitting around
[19:17:55] <rayh> djb_rh: rectify and filter 120
[19:18:55] <djb_rh> that would be a hell of a rectifier!
[19:19:18] <djb_rh> this looks interesting:
[19:19:19] <djb_rh> http://cgi.ebay.com/Dayton-Motor-Gearmotor-1-3-Hp-3-Phase-19-1-ratio_W0QQitemZ7573441257QQcategoryZ71400QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[19:20:21] <djb_rh> 90 RPMs and pretty dang good torque
[19:20:28] <djb_rh> well, up to 90 RPMs
[19:20:39] <djb_rh> less while running off a 1HP VFD as the phase converter and speed control. :)
[19:25:04] <skunkworks> or more than 90 rpm ;)
[19:25:10] <djb_rh> ooh
[19:25:11] <djb_rh> yeah!
[19:25:16] <djb_rh> forgot about that
[19:42:45] <Jacky^> anyone use Glade-2 here to build interfaces ?
[20:14:59] <Jacky^> les_w: still there ?
[21:37:10] <K4ts> hello
[21:37:44] <K4ts> hi les_w
[21:37:52] <K4ts> hi alex_joni
[21:38:08] <alex_joni> hello
[21:38:14] <K4ts> I go to sing
[21:53:55] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[22:03:53] <K4ts> hello Jacky^
[22:04:24] <K4ts> I sing napule è e images
[22:05:11] <Jacky^> K4ts: you sing.. im cryng with this damn desktop :/
[22:05:20] <Jacky^> ERROR: : couldn't create slave : Unable to create io-slave:
[22:05:32] <Jacky^> klauncher said: Unknown protocol 'file'
[22:05:42] <Jacky^> 0_0
[22:06:23] <robin_sz> meep?
[22:06:40] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz
[22:07:55] <K4ts> uff Jacky^
[22:07:58] <K4ts> ah ah
[22:08:03] <robin_sz> eveny
[22:08:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is pondering building a tube laser :)
[22:08:58] <Jacky^> im planning to take a big hammer :/
[22:09:09] <robin_sz> to?
[22:09:26] <Jacky^> to destroy kde & co.
[22:09:40] <robin_sz> well, KDE sucks we know that
[22:09:40] <Jacky^> need a virtual hammer
[22:09:47] <robin_sz> its french
[22:10:13] <Jacky^> ggrrr
[22:10:26] <Jacky^> is better to take a pause
[22:10:39] <robin_sz> why not use Gnome?
[22:10:47] <Jacky^> infact
[22:10:56] <K4ts> yes Jacky^ take you pause
[22:10:57] <Jacky^> I really do not use that as window manager
[22:11:01] <K4ts> ah ah
[22:11:23] <Jacky^> i just use some kde app sometimes
[22:11:29] <robin_sz> shrug
[22:12:03] <Jacky^> i think my kdlibs are not nicely mixed
[22:12:16] <Jacky^> but apt seem to say ' all ok'
[22:12:18] <Jacky^> :(
[22:12:43] <robin_sz> * robin_sz stops caring
[22:13:14] <K4ts> hi hi :-)
[22:17:44] <Jacky^> this fact of fight with 2-3 desktop is hurting me :(
[22:18:48] <robin_sz> 2 -3 desktops? whats a desktop?
[22:19:00] <Jacky^> window manager
[22:19:15] <Jacky^> I will finish removing kde and gnome, im sure..
[22:19:27] <robin_sz> I think I use gnome
[22:19:39] <robin_sz> not sure what it does though
[22:19:56] <Jacky^> the hard thing is to get them live in peace with others..
[22:20:14] <robin_sz> is it the thing that gives you the close, minimze resize buttons?
[22:20:26] <robin_sz> and lets you drag corners of windows to resize them
[22:20:30] <Jacky^> no, I really dont use these things
[22:20:46] <Jacky^> my wm its a minimalist wm, but usable
[22:21:00] <robin_sz> I have no idea what you are talking about
[22:21:20] <Jacky^> robin_sz: thats is too complex
[22:21:44] <robin_sz> what does a wm do then if its not about resizing windows?
[22:22:12] <Jacky^> yeah, but not minimize
[22:22:26] <Jacky^> there are no icons here
[22:22:32] <K4ts> 1 janyuary
[22:22:37] <Jacky^> saint ?
[22:23:00] <robin_sz> well, whatever, perhaps I dont have one then
[22:23:09] <K4ts> ah ahb
[22:23:39] <Jacky^> robin_sz: http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/cinelerra.jpg
[22:24:43] <robin_sz> its a picture of a screen
[22:24:59] <Jacky^> yes, snapshot
[22:25:04] <robin_sz> good
[22:25:22] <robin_sz> what am I supposed to learn from this?
[22:25:33] <Jacky^> thats not conventional
[22:25:48] <Jacky^> in other words
[22:25:57] <Jacky^> anytime I do an upgrade,
[22:26:03] <robin_sz> it looks broken I think
[22:26:15] <Jacky^> kde o gnome try to 'take space' ..
[22:26:22] <robin_sz> no "minimaze" or "maximize" buttons
[22:26:29] <Jacky^> the first fight with the second
[22:26:37] <robin_sz> shrug
[22:26:49] <Jacky^> ayone try go start his x manager
[22:26:58] <Jacky^> kde wont start kdm gnome gdm
[22:27:19] <Jacky^> sometimes they try to overwrite my cutomized xsession
[22:27:29] <robin_sz> shrug
[22:27:31] <Jacky^> ggrr
[22:27:43] <robin_sz> I just install gnome and it does what I want,
[22:27:56] <Jacky^> good idea
[22:28:01] <robin_sz> al I ever do is run a bunch of xterms and mozilla
[22:28:10] <Jacky^> im tryng to get all they togheter ..
[22:28:38] <Jacky^> but now, im really thinking to remove kde
[22:28:45] <robin_sz> I would
[22:28:47] <robin_sz> it sucks
[22:28:56] <Jacky^> except for some bluetooth application need no them
[22:32:04] <Jacky^> my problem is right because I stay in the half way
[22:32:12] <Jacky^> from one and another
[22:34:09] <Jacky^> robin_sz: so, planning to biuld a new laser tube ?
[22:35:21] <Jacky^> work in progress ?
[22:35:32] <robin_sz> http://www.trumpf.com/scripts/redirect2.php?domain=www.trumpf.com&nr=3&content=3.tubematic-tube-cutting-machine.html
[22:35:37] <robin_sz> like this ...
[22:36:16] <Jacky^> to buy it ?
[22:36:39] <robin_sz> no
[22:36:47] <robin_sz> too expensive
[22:37:03] <robin_sz> build something similar maybe
[22:37:52] <Jacky^> nice :) hacker spirit
[22:38:37] <Jacky^> seems huge
[22:41:51] <robin_sz> some very intersing motion problems
[22:43:19] <cradek> ?
[22:44:36] <robin_sz> imagine a sqaure tube ...
[22:44:50] <robin_sz> to cut a circle in one face ...
[22:44:59] <robin_sz> tube stays still, head lowers to surface
[22:45:18] <robin_sz> head does a Y axis sine
[22:45:28] <robin_sz> tube bves X axis cosine
[22:45:33] <robin_sz> does
[22:45:49] <robin_sz> end result circle in the flat face OK?
[22:45:58] <cradek> sure
[22:46:05] <robin_sz> now .. the fun part :)
[22:46:29] <robin_sz> imagine cutting a slot that goes from the top face to the side face
[22:46:39] <robin_sz> the hed lowers and starts cutting ...
[22:46:43] <robin_sz> tube stays still
[22:46:50] <robin_sz> head moves in Y
[22:46:58] <robin_sz> until it gets to the corner ...
[22:47:20] <robin_sz> tube rotates .. head raises to keep the same height as the corner somes up ...
[22:47:36] <robin_sz> Y is now moving back to keep the head on the corner
[22:47:55] <robin_sz> when tube has rotated 90 degrees
[22:48:08] <robin_sz> head continuies moving forawrds in Y
[22:48:34] <robin_sz> to continue the cut on the side face (which is now the top face)
[22:49:57] <robin_sz> actually, it maintians cut velocity around the corner as the motion transitions from flat faace, to rotary
[22:52:55] <robin_sz> http://www.altamarinc.com/tubecutter.asp
[22:53:23] <robin_sz> see the "square" video sample link to get the idea
[22:56:48] <anonimasu> hey
[22:57:28] <anonimasu> robin_sz: thoose machines does 3d cutting also ;)
[22:57:49] <robin_sz> not really, no
[22:57:50] <anonimasu> atleast the ones I saw
[22:57:58] <robin_sz> well, some can yeah
[22:58:15] <anonimasu> ah that were of a quote I got at work from a company
[22:58:20] <robin_sz> but these particualr ones cant
[22:58:21] <anonimasu> they did 3d cutting of tubes..
[22:58:25] <anonimasu> oh sucky :/
[22:58:31] <anonimasu> so you can have //
[22:58:32] <robin_sz> 3d is very very rare
[22:58:36] <anonimasu> with a pipe through
[22:59:08] <robin_sz> in thin wall pipe, 3d is no benefit
[22:59:56] <robin_sz> do you really care if that 1.2mm wall is cut at an angle? no.
[23:00:40] <les_w> hi guys
[23:00:45] <robin_sz> an ordinary 2.5d tube laser will do just fine
[23:00:49] <robin_sz> he les
[23:02:12] <les_w> reading back...
[23:02:29] <les_w> oh...tube cutting...
[23:02:43] <les_w> neat. ;)
[23:03:28] <les_w> I am having to doa bit of surgery on the router spindle rewire.
[23:03:50] <les_w> New fat wires don't fit in the holes and conduit
[23:04:26] <les_w> and I have no fittings foe European junction boxes etc
[23:04:39] <K4ts> HI les_w
[23:04:50] <les_w> had to actually make a strain relief on the lathe!
[23:04:57] <les_w> hi Anna!
[23:05:28] <anonimasu> :)
[23:06:35] <les_w> ugh, Damn. Just posted a new tread on a large auto forum, and misspelled the thread title.
[23:07:02] <robin_sz> les_w: did you watch the "sqaure" video?
[23:07:10] <les_w> I should have called it "Hi, I'm and Idiot!"
[23:07:19] <les_w> no robin but I will
[23:07:21] <anonimasu> square?
[23:07:25] <cradek> les_w: most people can't spell anyway
[23:07:47] <les_w> heh
[23:08:10] <robin_sz> anonimasu: http://www.altamarinc.com/tubecutter.asp
[23:08:19] <robin_sz> follow the "square" link
[23:08:41] <robin_sz> watch the motion as it goe around the corners :)
[23:09:18] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:09:25] <anonimasu> loading it
[23:09:38] <les_w> WOW
[23:09:56] <anonimasu> what a sick machine
[23:10:19] <cradek> cool
[23:10:25] <les_w> sure beats my horizontal bandsaw
[23:10:35] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:10:48] <robin_sz> I can get �200 an hour on one of those :)
[23:11:10] <anonimasu> are you building one?
[23:11:18] <robin_sz> I like to think I might
[23:11:31] <anonimasu> hm, what are you going to handle that corner stuff with ;)
[23:11:44] <robin_sz> absolutely no idea
[23:11:46] <les_w> not just for cutting off right?
[23:11:54] <robin_sz> indeed not
[23:11:56] <anonimasu> look at the video a bit more :)
[23:12:09] <les_w> I saw the slot
[23:12:35] <les_w> how thick was that? couple mm?
[23:12:36] <robin_sz> http://www.trumpf.com/3.index.html
[23:12:42] <robin_sz> looks like 4mm
[23:12:51] <les_w> wow.
[23:13:24] <robin_sz> there are some very kewl new manufacturing methods
[23:13:41] <robin_sz> hole in one side, two tab slots in the other of a box section
[23:13:47] <robin_sz> tube with two tabs ...
[23:14:03] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:14:16] <robin_sz> and "lock in" tabs .. the the tube is inserted and then twisted to lock it in
[23:14:23] <les_w> I stock a few hundred feet of 2x2x 1/8 in the shop for general use
[23:14:33] <anonimasu> that sh�uld make a rigid joint
[23:14:35] <les_w> tables, machine stands, etc
[23:14:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[23:14:43] <robin_sz> nods
[23:15:09] <robin_sz> 60x40 3mm wall plus 100mm sq 3mm wall is my standard stuff
[23:15:15] <robin_sz> 60x40 is nice
[23:16:38] <robin_sz> the 100x100 is just a little too big for the chop saw to take in 1 hit though
[23:16:48] <robin_sz> has to be rotated to get that last bit
[23:17:38] <robin_sz> so, anyway
[23:17:44] <robin_sz> how is the spindle retrofit going?
[23:17:53] <robin_sz> when is the beast going to run again?
[23:19:03] <anonimasu> hm..
[23:19:18] <anonimasu> I'll be getting my ballscrews this week someday
[23:19:20] <anonimasu> I hope
[23:19:29] <anonimasu> so I'll be in the shop during christmas eve ;)
[23:19:44] <robin_sz> ballscrews for christmas?
[23:20:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:20:02] <robin_sz> that is very similar to what I requested ;)
[23:20:02] <anonimasu> for the mill
[23:20:11] <les_w> wow have a message on the answering machine complementing the web site
[23:20:19] <robin_sz> coo.
[23:20:20] <anonimasu> Although it's a present from myself to myself
[23:20:28] <les_w> wonders if I sell plans for the router
[23:20:29] <anonimasu> then I'll be machining bearing mounts
[23:20:32] <les_w> I don't
[23:20:40] <les_w> but i'll give em away
[23:20:48] <robin_sz> hahaha
[23:20:56] <robin_sz> charge 5K
[23:21:12] <les_w> heh
[23:21:21] <robin_sz> by the time you have answered the million and one crazy questions, youill wish you had
[23:21:31] <les_w> all the plans are just in 2d autocad
[23:21:36] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:21:37] <anonimasu> nice
[23:21:43] <les_w> designed in
[23:21:45] <les_w> 1998
[23:21:55] <anonimasu> although I have the largest project yet
[23:22:00] <anonimasu> to fit the milling head to the machine
[23:22:04] <anonimasu> I just have a drilling head..
[23:22:05] <anonimasu> yet
[23:22:20] <anonimasu> rather, I have the milling head but with the wrong connection to the mill..
[23:22:25] <anonimasu> so I need to machine a adaptor plate
[23:22:34] <robin_sz> my mate just got given a new motor to try with the bridgeport
[23:22:47] <les_w> neat.
[23:22:49] <robin_sz> out with the old 2hp 3 pahse ...
[23:22:59] <robin_sz> in with a 4hp servo :)
[23:23:01] <anonimasu> 10hp 4phase ;)
[23:23:04] <anonimasu> oh neat!
[23:23:07] <anonimasu> can you run that with the control?
[23:23:17] <robin_sz> just fitted with a resolver, no encoder
[23:23:20] <les_w> Like I said I am having to chew things up to make room for the fat 20mm spindle power cable
[23:23:42] <anonimasu> I'll be boring the bearing mounts on the old mill :/
[23:23:50] <robin_sz> yeah, it came with a nice baldor drive to match :)
[23:23:55] <anonimasu> but the boring head is nice..
[23:23:56] <les_w> oh btw.....cheated a little
[23:23:56] <anonimasu> neat
[23:24:07] <anonimasu> so I might have them machined this week
[23:24:17] <les_w> put safety ground on the shield
[23:24:20] <anonimasu> as I have like 4m of 2cm alu :)
[23:24:25] <les_w> ground loop?
[23:24:38] <anonimasu> 2cm x 20cm
[23:24:45] <anonimasu> in the stash at work
[23:25:09] <les_w> ground loop current going through the linear way balls?
[23:25:17] <les_w> gulp
[23:25:22] <les_w> what have I done
[23:25:52] <les_w> Les' ball bearing edm machine
[23:25:59] <anonimasu> heh
[23:26:11] <anonimasu> you havent been running it for too much have you?
[23:26:27] <les_w> no it's down for all this wiring
[23:26:27] <anonimasu> do a sudden stop and you will burn micro ^_^_^_^ into your ways..
[23:27:27] <les_w> also...I was thinking...how can I determine actual spindle rotation from monitoring vfd output
[23:27:33] <les_w> should be possible
[23:27:52] <anonimasu> you should have bought a vfd with positioning support :)
[23:27:56] <les_w> since 3 phase induction motors slip
[23:28:04] <anonimasu> slip?
[23:28:09] <les_w> yeah
[23:28:14] <anonimasu> what do you mean?
[23:28:23] <les_w> they are not syncronuous
[23:28:27] <anonimasu> I've had that trouble with my motor..
[23:28:30] <anonimasu> the old mill
[23:28:33] <anonimasu> sometimes got out of sync..
[23:28:39] <anonimasu> and the vfd wouldnt kick start it..
[23:28:51] <anonimasu> since it were between poles
[23:28:59] <anonimasu> and the vfd sucked ;)
[23:29:12] <robin_sz> les_w, I thought modern VFDs had sensorless vector sensing .. monitored I and V to get a clue as to the actual RPM
[23:29:14] <anonimasu> I'll be buying a nice one with brake for the new mill
[23:29:26] <les_w> I am just trying to get out of a tach on the spindle
[23:29:26] <anonimasu> robin_sz: yep
[23:29:27] <anonimasu> they dp
[23:29:28] <anonimasu> do
[23:29:34] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[23:29:44] <les_w> might robin
[23:29:51] <robin_sz> the on on my lathe shows true rpm, not just output freq
[23:29:51] <les_w> seems possible
[23:29:57] <les_w> hmm
[23:30:21] <anonimasu> I'll be back later
[23:30:24] <les_w> I have had it with extra wires
[23:30:28] <les_w> k anon
[23:31:00] <les_w> spindle needs 3 for the motor, 2 for the fan, and 2 more for the thermistor
[23:31:06] <les_w> and a shield
[23:31:11] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:31:19] <robin_sz> shield will be important
[23:31:29] <robin_sz> any output filtering on the VFD
[23:31:36] <les_w> so cheated putting safty ground on shield
[23:31:43] <les_w> no output filtering
[23:31:47] <robin_sz> ooh.
[23:32:11] <les_w> drive man said only for 100 ft runs or more
[23:32:49] <robin_sz> depends whther you are sticking it down the same conduit as encoders I guess
[23:33:07] <robin_sz> might be within FCC regs down 50 foot .. but?
[23:33:15] <les_w> igus energy chain...and yes I am
[23:33:31] <les_w> but shielded
[23:34:03] <les_w> 4x12 shielded
[23:34:46] <les_w> think I'll have problems?
[23:38:56] <les_w> kzan!!!! I havea question!
[23:40:56] <robin_sz> les_w: dunno, depends onhow much crap comes out of the VFD .. probably OK though, sounds quite shielded
[23:41:46] <les_w> encoder lines diff twisted pair and also shielded
[23:42:12] <les_w> would a balding 53 year old look ridiculous in this?
[23:42:13] <les_w> http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/img_popup.jsp?imgUrl=http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/11/18/192/611/1973812999.192611353.IM1.08.565x421_A.562x421.jpg&car_id=192611353&numImages=9&advanced=null#vdptop
[23:43:37] <les_w> Would it be ok if I got a new career as gang leader/pimp?
[23:47:54] <les_w> then write children's books.
[23:48:22] <robin_sz> slk230 ? hairdressers car
[23:48:28] <les_w> hahaha
[23:48:37] <K4ts> ah ah
[23:48:42] <robin_sz> 500 S class or bust
[23:48:50] <les_w> I was afraid of that
[23:49:16] <les_w> you like K4ts?
[23:49:22] <K4ts> yessssss
[23:49:34] <les_w> for you but not for me right
[23:49:47] <K4ts> yes
[23:49:52] <les_w> ah
[23:49:54] <les_w> haha
[23:49:55] <skunkworks> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/cartt1.jpg you can get them cheap <5000 and 300 hp from the factory ;)
[23:50:16] <skunkworks> you need a project car don't you?
[23:50:47] <robin_sz> theres a difference
[23:51:00] <skunkworks> awd for crappy weather. and for those stop light to stoplight races
[23:51:03] <robin_sz> a Merc has class ...
[23:52:52] <les_w> bad link for me.
[23:53:21] <robin_sz> some sort of japanese thing .. fast datsun or something
[23:53:26] <skunkworks> really?
[23:53:29] <les_w> OK. K4ts gets the hairdresser MB. I get old man car.
[23:53:44] <K4ts> I not guide
[23:53:48] <robin_sz> or a toyota is it?
[23:54:14] <skunkworks> dodge stealth twin turbo - same as the mitsubishi 3000gt
[23:54:21] <skunkworks> vr4
[23:54:34] <robin_sz> ahh, a mitsubishi skyline thing?
[23:55:13] <les_w> I get obsessed. Now worried about VAG horrible reliability.
[23:55:14] <skunkworks> na - 3000gt is a 3000gt. they where gto's in the europe
[23:55:23] <robin_sz> 'k
[23:55:24] <Jacky^> ghghg :)
[23:55:36] <robin_sz> anyway, I was close .. some sort of fast datsun ;)
[23:56:06] <skunkworks> ;) yeck.
[23:56:31] <robin_sz> when did dodge sell out to the japanese then? some time ago I guess?
[23:56:52] <skunkworks> it was a colaberation (sp)
[23:57:04] <robin_sz> uh huh.
[23:57:13] <K4ts> http://www.orcaloca.it/metronapoli/linea5.php
[23:57:50] <K4ts> this my car
[23:57:54] <K4ts> ah ah
[23:58:19] <skunkworks> yah- car pooling with the wife sure saves money.
[23:58:57] <Jacky^> rading an article in future proxpective, by grillo, he says Italy export in UK 200 ton of pig flesh, UK export in It 200 ton of pig flesh, what instead is anyone eat his flesh ? wouldnt better for all ?
[23:59:00] <les_w> I se a train....??
[23:59:00] <Jacky^> LOL
[23:59:05] <Jacky^> :(��
[23:59:22] <Jacky^> its seem to be the progress