#emc | Logs for 2005-12-14

[00:02:13] <Yuga> thanks for the help robin_sz.. now if it is wrong atleast i have some one to blame :)
[00:02:15] <Yuga> hehehe
[00:02:25] <robin_sz> heh
[00:02:51] <robin_sz> you can actually buy rack strip very cheap
[00:02:58] <Yuga> i just hope that this laser cutter can cut this accurate... got some realy realy fine writing
[00:03:12] <Yuga> robin_sz.. it's the face plate for a amplifier
[00:03:17] <robin_sz> oh
[00:03:30] <robin_sz> I might have some knowledge of this ...
[00:03:43] <Yuga> ?
[00:03:45] <robin_sz> I was involved witha company that made amplifiers
[00:03:48] <robin_sz> rack mount
[00:03:51] <robin_sz> PA amps
[00:04:10] <Yuga> exactly what i am busy doing :>
[00:04:33] <robin_sz> when we split it up, I got the laser and presses, powder coat and screen print
[00:04:45] <robin_sz> the other guy got the SMT and toriod winders
[00:04:52] <Yuga> smt?
[00:04:58] <robin_sz> surface mount machines
[00:05:03] <Yuga> aaahhh
[00:05:09] <robin_sz> we made amplifiers.
[00:05:10] <Yuga> you chap's wherent doing that great?
[00:05:12] <robin_sz> lots of them
[00:05:37] <Yuga> or just to much competition?
[00:05:40] <robin_sz> we even made the heatsinks in house
[00:05:56] <robin_sz> well, the company was one of the biggest sellers in the UK
[00:06:05] <robin_sz> but China is too cheap
[00:06:06] <Yuga> lol... the amp's i am making dont have heatsinks :)
[00:06:14] <robin_sz> smallones huh?
[00:06:17] <robin_sz> or class D?
[00:06:21] <anonimasu> :/
[00:06:23] <Yuga> nopes... class d :)
[00:06:28] <robin_sz> k
[00:06:32] <Yuga> using the case as the heatsink
[00:06:40] <robin_sz> we decided not to go that route
[00:07:23] <robin_sz> you can get a 250W class D amp from china for around 200 euros trade
[00:07:40] <Yuga> robin_sz... you might know where i can find some oem xovers?
[00:08:05] <robin_sz> thats 2 channels in a 19" box, with transformer and all finished nicely
[00:08:53] <Yuga> dont realy feel like making them.. would perfure to buy them
[00:09:22] <robin_sz> well, we could not make and sell a 250+250 for 200 euro and make a profit
[00:09:39] <robin_sz> just buy the modules then?
[00:10:05] <robin_sz> various people import them as a "brick" to bolt into the back of an active speaker
[00:10:25] <Yuga> robin_sz.. where??? been looking cant find anything... well anything worth while
[00:10:59] <robin_sz> really? the market is flodded with them
[00:11:06] <robin_sz> whyyou think we pulled out?
[00:11:16] <Yuga> robin_sz... you have a pic of the amp's you use to make? interested to c what they look like
[00:11:21] <Yuga> robin_sz... talking about xovers... not amps
[00:11:24] <robin_sz> one moment
[00:12:45] <robin_sz> we have some stock on ebay somewhere
[00:16:04] <robin_sz> http://www.quacky.co.uk/~simonr/ukpfront2_400.jpg
[00:16:35] <robin_sz> http://www.quacky.co.uk/~simonr/ukpback1.jpg
[00:17:39] <Yuga> you seem to of misplaced your stock
[00:18:05] <robin_sz> ??
[00:18:59] <Jacky^> john ..
[00:19:02] <Jacky^> hello
[00:19:37] <jmkasunich> hi
[00:19:43] <anonimasu> http://www.castle.uk.com/pages/ec_aw250.htm
[00:20:05] <Jacky^> jmkasunich: what up ?
[00:20:34] <jmkasunich> working to get emc2 ready for a release
[00:20:40] <robin_sz> Yuga: theres another http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/QUANTUM-T800-AMPLIFIER-MANUFACTURED-BY-MATRIX_W0QQitemZ5842139861QQcategoryZ69962QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:20:42] <Jacky^> coll
[00:20:46] <Jacky^> cool*
[00:20:58] <Jacky^> jmkasunich: good progress ?
[00:21:11] <jmkasunich> lots of little things need cleaned up
[00:21:22] <jmkasunich> config management, docs, bugs
[00:21:50] <Yuga> cool... nice amps
[00:21:54] <Jacky^> hehe :-)
[00:22:19] <robin_sz> there is one word to describe the pro-audio market in the UK and europe.
[00:22:19] <Yuga> only prob i spotted is your top case goes over some of your writing :) well that and the fact it is made in the uk :)
[00:22:21] <robin_sz> dead.
[00:22:22] <Yuga> *hide*
[00:22:55] <anonimasu> yep
[00:22:57] <jmkasunich> hi robin
[00:23:03] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I got a offer to buy some real amps a bit back..
[00:23:17] <robin_sz> for some reason, people seem to pay more for UK made audiop gear ...
[00:23:24] <anonimasu> 3000eur for some used PA amps off a friend..
[00:23:34] <anonimasu> cant remember what brand it were..
[00:23:37] <robin_sz> the same amps in a different box sold in the US, the Uk verison fetched more
[00:23:42] <robin_sz> big?
[00:23:46] <anonimasu> yeah
[00:23:53] <robin_sz> we did a 3K version
[00:23:57] <robin_sz> that was chunky
[00:23:58] <anonimasu> the pa company a friend worked for ;)
[00:24:17] <robin_sz> QSC or Crown
[00:24:24] <robin_sz> they are the big players
[00:24:38] <Yuga> currently all my stuff is crown
[00:25:05] <robin_sz> its good, but expensive for what it is
[00:25:15] <robin_sz> the older stuff is not so great
[00:25:21] <Yuga> dont realy like the qsc stuff...
[00:25:21] <Yuga> well crown and RCF
[00:25:44] <robin_sz> can I do you a deal on a load of amps ;)
[00:26:50] <anonimasu> hm..
[00:26:56] <anonimasu> hm I like the gryphon amps..
[00:27:20] <robin_sz> shrug
[00:27:34] <robin_sz> thats hifi ?
[00:27:42] <anonimasu> more violence then hifi..
[00:28:45] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: hi :)
[00:28:51] <anonimasu> to be honest I dont give a shit about audiophiles..
[00:29:08] <anonimasu> when you go so far you remove the mesh covering the speakers for a better sound it's going too far.
[00:29:11] <robin_sz> big speakers, plenty of power. job done.
[00:29:41] <anonimasu> I am a bit picky, but not picky enough to spend like 3000 eur on a amp
[00:30:10] <robin_sz> I use some home-made Quad 405 copies myself ... hahhaha
[00:30:34] <jmkasunich> heh, you wanna be a purist you gotta use valves
[00:31:06] <robin_sz> ick :)
[00:31:11] <jmkasunich> saw something at Roland's CNC workshop that would probably make some of the purists cream their pants
[00:31:24] <robin_sz> did it have EL34s?
[00:31:35] <robin_sz> or KT66's
[00:31:37] <jmkasunich> ancient EDM machine, had a bank of 32 power pentodes
[00:31:44] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:31:58] <robin_sz> pentodes?
[00:32:04] <jmkasunich> well, some power tube
[00:32:06] <robin_sz> sweep tubes out of tellys probably
[00:32:22] <anonimasu> hehe
[00:32:37] <jmkasunich> gotta admit it looked pretty cool, all those rows
[00:32:40] <robin_sz> yep
[00:32:43] <jmkasunich> might have even been 48
[00:32:45] <robin_sz> lots of little fires
[00:32:57] <robin_sz> you KNOW when its on ;)
[00:33:00] <jmkasunich> it was either 4x8 or 6x8 array of them
[00:33:29] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to remember the pentodes in that big old valve ham rig he had
[00:33:38] <jmkasunich> I can just see some audiophile pulling that chassis out and building an amp (or stereo, or quad) with it
[00:35:12] <robin_sz> probably 6KD6 tubes ??
[00:35:18] <jmkasunich> dunno
[00:35:24] <jmkasunich> that was back in June
[00:36:20] <jmkasunich> All I remember is the shape... octal base, tapered, fatter on top, then "shoulders", and the top part was about the same dia as the base
[00:36:56] <robin_sz> sounds older than a 6KD6
[00:37:33] <jmkasunich> 6DK6 is cylindrical?
[00:37:50] <robin_sz> sure
[00:38:25] <robin_sz> not octal base
[00:40:21] <robin_sz> 6L6 maybe ...
[00:40:26] <robin_sz> but we digress :)
[00:40:34] <jmkasunich> as usual
[00:41:03] <robin_sz> they still have their place, in guitar amps
[00:41:09] <robin_sz> so ... anyway
[00:41:14] <robin_sz> back to EMC
[00:42:39] <jmkasunich> this shape: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5839330409
[00:42:57] <jmkasunich> not sure about the base, the pins in the pic look thicker than a standard octal
[00:43:27] <jmkasunich> heh, back to emc
[00:43:41] <robin_sz> mmm .. curvaceous :)
[00:44:03] <jmkasunich> yeah, like I said, seeing a big array of them was pretty cool
[00:44:37] <jmkasunich> definitely good for the "mine is cooler than yours" factor that audiophiles care so much about
[00:44:45] <robin_sz> yep
[00:44:55] <robin_sz> but might not sound that great
[00:45:03] <robin_sz> so ...
[00:45:04] <robin_sz> EMC
[00:45:08] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[00:45:32] <robin_sz> there are still problems with trajectory then?
[00:45:53] <jmkasunich> apparently when you get into the high speed machining range
[00:46:07] <jmkasunich> much of this talk is just talk, people brainstorming
[00:46:14] <robin_sz> depends what you call high-speed
[00:46:20] <Jacky^__> ghghg ive not more nicks
[00:46:31] <jmkasunich> I think its great discussion, not sure anybody's gonna go out and write a new TP next week
[00:47:02] <robin_sz> for a grinder 2m/minute is high speed
[00:47:10] <robin_sz> for a laser ... 200m/minute
[00:48:17] <robin_sz> I gave mine a test today
[00:48:32] <robin_sz> a compound curve from many small points
[00:48:47] <robin_sz> normally, I replace them with arcs to fit
[00:48:57] <robin_sz> but I let theses go through as is
[00:49:11] <robin_sz> small sections had 500 points/inch
[00:49:17] <robin_sz> cut at 3m/minute
[00:49:27] <robin_sz> no apparent slowing or jerking
[00:49:39] <robin_sz> this is on a 1995 Bosch control at 33mhz
[00:49:46] <jmkasunich> dammit, stop mixing units
[00:49:52] <robin_sz> oops
[00:49:58] <robin_sz> 200/cm
[00:50:02] <jmkasunich> 3m/min = 120in/min = 2 in/sec = 1000 segs/sec
[00:50:03] <robin_sz> 20/mm
[00:50:34] <jmkasunich> not bad
[00:50:53] <jmkasunich> how long were the 500 segs/inch sections?
[00:50:54] <robin_sz> I have seen it slow when there are two many
[00:50:58] <robin_sz> not long
[00:51:04] <robin_sz> say, 1/2"
[00:51:24] <jmkasunich> thats about 250 segs, more than emcs buffer (200 IIRC)
[00:52:13] <jmkasunich> darn cat
[00:53:48] <robin_sz> anyway ... did segmot ever get sorted?
[00:53:52] <robin_sz> I thought it was?
[00:53:53] <jmkasunich> no
[00:53:56] <robin_sz> oh
[00:54:14] <robin_sz> quelle bummer
[00:58:27] <Jacky^__> uhm
[01:01:57] <Jacky^> night all
[01:02:01] <jmkasunich> night
[01:02:04] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[01:41:17] <dmess> hello all... on topic... emc1 or emc2??
[01:45:21] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/configs/sim/README: cleanup and formatting for jmk's format modification line.
[01:47:14] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: added jmk formatting to display of README
[03:26:03] <CIA-8> 03petev * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20_pidtest.hal: Initial revision.
[03:26:59] <CIA-8> 03petev * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc_pidtest.hal: Initial revision.
[05:36:15] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl: Replaced (with his permission) Ray's original config manager with a slightly different version. Testing and comments are requested. Run from the top level emc2 directory: tcl/bin/setupconfig.tcl
[05:41:29] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (13 files in 7 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Wed Dec 14 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[07:03:46] <fenn> the latest in gas-powered mousepad heaters.. a 3 inch slab of aluminum on the stove
[07:42:23] <Jymmm> wouldn't residual body heat be easier?
[10:56:12] <anonimasu> 6hm
[10:56:20] <anonimasu> how much accel
[10:56:24] <anonimasu> m/s equals a g
[11:01:48] <alex_joni> anonimasu: no idea, but it's in the logs somewhere :D
[11:03:51] <anonimasu> hm I am doing the calcs for the Z axis..
[11:04:18] <alex_joni> 10-12 m/s should be plenty
[11:05:20] <fenn> Definition: gravity = 9.80665 m/s^2 = 9.80665 m / s^2
[11:05:30] <anonimasu> hm ok
[11:05:34] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I dont have that kind of speed
[11:05:37] <anonimasu> more like 3m/s..
[11:05:46] <anonimasu> but I am trying to find out how much force I neeed to accelerate 60kg there
[11:07:24] <anonimasu> but I've got about 8,7 nm peak on the z axis so it should be plenty
[11:07:33] <anonimasu> and 1,2 continous..
[11:09:07] <fenn> what pitch ballscrew?
[11:09:30] <fenn> need diameter too i think
[11:10:22] <anonimasu> 16mm
[11:10:51] <anonimasu> and 5mm pitch
[11:11:19] <fenn> units 60kg*3m/s^2 newton
[11:11:30] <fenn> you need 180 newtons at the shaft
[11:11:37] <fenn> er, at the nut i mean
[11:12:09] <anonimasu> hm, I need bigger serovs ^_^
[11:12:18] <fenn> no that's newtons not n*m
[11:12:23] <anonimasu> servos..
[11:12:24] <anonimasu> ah
[11:12:43] <fenn> i'm trying to figure out how to get n*m
[11:14:02] <anonimasu> ok
[11:15:03] <fenn> units 5mm*180*n n*m = 0.9 n*m
[11:15:43] <anonimasu> ah that adds up close to my calcs..
[11:16:01] <anonimasu> 0,47 nm to move the mass of the table..
[11:16:17] <fenn> plus about 10% inefficiency in the ballscrew, maybe another 10% in the belts
[11:16:34] <anonimasu> yeah but I gear 4:1
[11:16:53] <anonimasu> also, so I have plenty of torque..
[11:17:16] <fenn> actually these calcs are all crap
[11:17:31] <fenn> you have to subtract the torque needed for spinning up the motor
[11:18:19] <fenn> do you know the rotor inertia?
[11:18:22] <anonimasu> I were mostlyyes
[11:18:23] <anonimasu> err
[11:18:24] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:18:40] <anonimasu> let me fetch it
[11:19:03] <anonimasu> Kg*m2
[11:19:03] <anonimasu> oz-in-s2
[11:19:03] <anonimasu> 5.86 x 10-5
[11:19:03] <anonimasu> 0.0083
[11:20:08] <anonimasu> http://www.galilmc.com/products/motors/servomotors.html
[11:20:19] <anonimasu> n23-53-1000
[11:20:25] <anonimasu> I'll be right back in a moment
[11:27:27] <fenn> i need an estimated feature size, or expected time to reach top speed
[11:28:15] <fenn> (time to reach top speed would be much easier)
[11:28:26] <anonimasu> I dont really have a idea right now
[11:28:33] <anonimasu> it's not critical at ALL
[11:28:50] <anonimasu> err..
[11:29:02] <anonimasu> the travel is about 3dm..
[11:29:06] <anonimasu> maybe 4..
[11:37:55] <fenn> so at 0.13 m/s top speed, it will take sqrt(0.13/(0.5*3)) = 0.29 seconds to reach top speed
[11:39:11] <fenn> hmm that looks funny
[11:39:21] <anonimasu> hm, seems way too fast..
[11:39:50] <anonimasu> dont you agree?
[11:43:07] <fenn> it will reach top speed in 0.003 meters
[11:43:29] <anonimasu> hm, insanity..
[11:44:36] <anonimasu> 3cm to 3m/min..
[11:44:37] <fenn> that's at 3g
[11:44:42] <anonimasu> heh..
[11:44:47] <fenn> er 3m/s^2 i mean
[11:44:53] <fenn> 0.3g
[11:45:02] <anonimasu> that's plenty of speed..
[11:45:09] <anonimasu> I might gear it even more..
[11:45:14] <anonimasu> I dont need that rapid Z movement..
[11:45:50] <fenn> i havent figured out if your motor can accelerate it at 0.3g yet
[11:46:31] <fenn> i need a pencil dammit
[11:46:56] <anonimasu> :)
[11:47:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sends fenn a pencil
[11:47:30] <fenn> thx
[11:47:34] <alex_joni> http://blogs.netindonesia.net/images/blogs_netindonesia_net/maya/220/r_largest%20pencil%20in%20the%20world.jpg
[11:47:41] <alex_joni> would that be ok?
[11:48:04] <anonimasu> ouch so much graphite
[11:48:30] <alex_joni> lol
[11:48:33] <anonimasu> :)
[11:48:35] <alex_joni> I wonder how you sharpen it...
[11:50:52] <anonimasu> yep
[11:51:18] <fenn> blarg i give up
[11:51:44] <alex_joni> on sharpening?
[11:51:45] <anonimasu> :/
[11:51:55] <alex_joni> fenn: not that fast..
[11:51:57] <fenn> is "continuous torque" supposed to be some kind of average value for torque or what?
[11:52:12] <anonimasu> the torque the motor can deliver continously
[11:52:16] <anonimasu> holding torque..
[11:52:36] <alex_joni> as in the current that can flow through it without trashing it
[11:52:46] <fenn> yeah but that's at 6500 rpm i bet
[11:53:13] <fenn> er, not at 6500 rpm
[11:53:35] <fenn> servo torque goes down or up with rpm?
[11:53:40] <anonimasu> it goes down..
[11:53:44] <alex_joni> depending on the motor
[11:53:53] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:54:07] <anonimasu> not as quickly as with a stepper..
[11:55:56] <fenn> i wish the units command could do sqrt
[11:56:35] <anonimasu> I wish debian would install devel tools by default
[11:56:59] <alex_joni> bc does
[11:57:03] <anonimasu> bc?
[11:57:04] <anonimasu> ah
[11:57:09] <fenn> hmm i guess units does to sqrt
[11:57:12] <anonimasu> yand stop assuming all users are sheep..
[11:57:23] <alex_joni> sheep?
[11:57:28] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/scripts/IO_Show.tcl: removed obsolete ini file references.
[11:57:59] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:58:10] <alex_joni> http://www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/cgi-bin/mansec?1+bc
[11:58:14] <anonimasu> assuming that everyone likes apt..
[11:58:20] <alex_joni> is available on a lot of arhitectures...
[11:58:32] <alex_joni> who assumed anything about apt?
[11:58:46] <anonimasu> the people releasing debian..
[11:58:48] <alex_joni> I told fenn that bc does sqrt..
[11:58:49] <anonimasu> I made a install of current..
[11:58:55] <fenn> i like apt and i dont even use debian
[11:58:59] <alex_joni> lol
[11:59:11] <anonimasu> and I have no compiler that works.
[11:59:19] <anonimasu> make is broken..
[11:59:26] <anonimasu> the locale stuff isnt right
[11:59:30] <anonimasu> bleh.. I'll downgrade..
[12:00:03] <anonimasu> I dont have time to mess with this stuff on a server :)
[12:00:34] <alex_joni> apt worked great a few months ago..
[12:00:41] <alex_joni> tried to install dialog on a BDI
[12:00:46] <alex_joni> and that didn't work :(
[12:01:12] <anonimasu> 4ep
[12:01:21] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is goind to go with feodora soon..
[12:01:21] <Jacky^> morning
[12:02:25] <anonimasu> debian pisses me off.
[12:03:02] <Jacky^> ugh
[12:03:26] <Jacky^> Im using Sid (unstable)
[12:04:16] <Jacky^> I had to wait some week to update many apps cause many libs was not available yet
[12:04:26] <Jacky^> thats normal on sid ..
[12:04:30] <rayh> * rayh is just unstable no matter what he uses.
[12:05:21] <anonimasu> I hate broken default installs :/
[12:05:39] <Jacky^> hi rayh :)
[12:05:50] <anonimasu> slackware never did this..
[12:05:53] <rayh> How you doing.
[12:05:54] <anonimasu> ;)
[12:06:07] <alex_joni> anonimasu: sarge?
[12:06:14] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:06:18] <alex_joni> :(
[12:06:23] <Jacky^> rayh: waking up right now ..
[12:06:53] <anonimasu> were running 3.1
[12:06:54] <rayh> Thought it was afternoon there?
[12:07:03] <alex_joni> it's 14:06 right now
[12:07:06] <alex_joni> and I'm at work
[12:07:07] <anonimasu> ah, thought I were running sid.. hm
[12:07:12] <Jacky^> rayh: 13:07 pm :/
[12:07:17] <alex_joni> and 13:06 in italy
[12:07:30] <anonimasu> *hugs the usb stick*
[12:07:39] <rayh> Well is suppose it's time to wake up and eat.
[12:07:41] <anonimasu> I love when you can start net installs off it..
[12:07:47] <Jacky^> hehehe
[12:08:36] <alex_joni> anonimasu: how about running emc2 off it..
[12:10:24] <Jacky^> rayh: I worked a bit latest night, attempting to learn cinelerra ..
[12:10:49] <Jacky^> the night seems to be the best time for that :)
[12:11:00] <Jacky^> get no disturb around
[12:11:38] <Jacky^> of course is not always possible to work in the night
[12:11:44] <Jacky^> during
[12:12:13] <Jacky^> for now, I can do it
[12:13:12] <rayh> I go brain dead about 10pm.
[12:14:19] <rayh> cinelerra is a nice sounding package.
[12:14:23] <Jacky^> to be onest, I sometime sleep during the afternoon too ..
[12:14:34] <rayh> in my video production days we had to edit tape.
[12:15:04] <Jacky^> cool
[12:15:11] <Jacky^> hehe
[12:18:30] <Jacky^> talking about apt, I cant live without it
[12:18:31] <rayh> We even had a edit block for 2" wide videotape. cut and tape.
[12:18:48] <Jacky^> anonimasu: how is rpm working on feodra now ?
[12:19:30] <Jacky^> rayh: i was impressed by the nice effects of cinelerra
[12:19:42] <Jacky^> really nice effects :)
[12:20:06] <rayh> I'll have to play when I get some time.
[12:20:17] <Jacky^> the only issue is that ive not much space on my disk
[12:20:32] <Jacky^> not tried to render yet ..
[12:21:03] <Jacky^> I think I should add another HD :(
[12:21:59] <anonimasu> alex_joni: that workd
[12:22:00] <anonimasu> works
[12:24:12] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what?
[12:24:34] <anonimasu> running emc on debian
[12:25:01] <rayh> Look out beowolf here comes Jacky^ to render.
[12:28:16] <Jacky^> :)
[12:32:11] <Jacky^> looking at the photos of the year: http://www.time.com/time/potw/2005_viewers_choice/
[12:32:18] <Jacky^> nice pics :)
[13:53:40] <anonimasu> I hate debian.
[13:53:45] <anonimasu> I SO MUCH HATE IT!"#�
[13:53:58] <Jacky^> :D
[13:54:41] <Jacky^> anonimasu: whats the problem ?
[13:54:45] <anonimasu> "I am going to help you autopartition REMOVE ALL FILES! OK?"
[13:55:00] <anonimasu> the damn installer wont find my harddrive..
[13:55:02] <alex_joni> LOL
[13:55:07] <anonimasu> unless I install debian off a US mirror.
[13:55:18] <Jacky^> anonimasu: using raid ?
[13:55:22] <anonimasu> no.
[13:55:32] <Jacky^> strange
[13:56:01] <Jacky^> check the bios settings ..
[13:56:51] <Jacky^> I cant load any file in Kino instead :(
[13:57:02] <anonimasu> seriously I would not blame debian if it were a bios problem.
[13:57:03] <Jacky^> Failed to load media file !
[13:57:08] <Jacky^> damn it
[13:57:18] <alex_joni> anonimasu: what hdd / FS?
[13:57:32] <Jacky^> anonimasu: im pretty sure its some bios setting
[13:57:47] <anonimasu> I'll slap you soon.
[13:58:02] <anonimasu> it's not a bios setting it's the debian installer that messes up installing the driver for the hdd controller
[13:58:14] <anonimasu> because the mirror of debian I use does not have that part of the installer.
[13:58:18] <Jacky^> wich kernel ?
[13:58:21] <anonimasu> ie module.
[13:58:30] <Jacky^> look at the boot options
[13:58:30] <anonimasu> 2.4.x...
[13:58:37] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[13:58:40] <Jacky^> you can pass some option to the kernel
[13:58:43] <Jacky^> ahhh
[13:58:46] <Jacky^> bf26
[13:59:10] <Jacky^> boot with a more recent kernel
[13:59:13] <anonimasu> it's NOT a problem, DEBIAN does not have a copy of the modules I need on the mirror I choose to use.
[13:59:29] <alex_joni> guess it's the mirror's fault then
[13:59:37] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it's the installer..
[13:59:49] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it likes to autopartition ^_^
[14:00:06] <alex_joni> lol
[14:00:08] <Jacky^> the installer should be beta
[14:00:13] <Jacky^> I never used it :(
[14:00:28] <Jacky^> latest time I installed Debian was 5 years ago ..
[14:00:35] <Jacky^> from official cd :P
[14:00:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs and longs after slackware
[14:00:47] <Jacky^> cant remember how to install that
[14:00:49] <Jacky^> :D
[14:00:50] <jepler> anonimasu: so use slackware
[14:00:54] <Jacky^> I forget :/
[14:00:59] <ValarQ> * ValarQ hugs his gentoo system
[14:01:03] <Jacky^> wow
[14:01:04] <anonimasu> jepler: cant really justify it for a server at work..
[14:01:12] <Jacky^> yeah.. anonimasu gentoo is great
[14:01:15] <anonimasu> jepler: I want apt, but I hate the attitude..
[14:01:27] <Jacky^> if youve time to compile for some mounth ..
[14:01:29] <Jacky^> hehe
[14:01:46] <anonimasu> it's like where redhat went..
[14:01:51] <Jacky^> yes, gentoo is cool
[14:02:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu takes deep breathes
[14:02:11] <Jacky^> but what when you should use a package in few minuts ? :(
[14:02:12] <ValarQ> fbsd is pretty neat as well :)
[14:02:16] <alex_joni> the whole thing is sooo wrong
[14:02:22] <alex_joni> too many distro's
[14:02:23] <anonimasu> finally I found a mirror in sweden with the right modules..
[14:02:26] <anonimasu> yep
[14:02:31] <anonimasu> I perfer bsd over linux
[14:02:33] <Jacky^> wnat to play gtkatlantic: apt-get .. in 2 minuts ready to go
[14:02:46] <jepler> I just wish somebody would produce a nice realtime kernel rpm for fedora
[14:02:48] <Jacky^> emerge in gentoo do not work so fast at all ..
[14:02:53] <alex_joni> Jacky^: I tried 'apt-get install dialog'
[14:03:00] <alex_joni> yesterday, on the BDI 4.30
[14:03:04] <jepler> I tried to build one myself but without any luck
[14:03:12] <alex_joni> 15 MB updates..
[14:03:16] <ValarQ> Jacky^: but being able to hack own ebuild files rocks
[14:03:16] <alex_joni> but worse than that..
[14:03:22] <anonimasu> dpkg --force-all --install
[14:03:27] <alex_joni> it needed to update e2fsprogs
[14:03:30] <alex_joni> which failed
[14:03:32] <alex_joni> :(
[14:03:53] <alex_joni> and I didn't dare to do it manually
[14:04:01] <alex_joni> last time I did it removed init as a dependency
[14:04:07] <alex_joni> and it never worked again :/
[14:04:20] <anonimasu> :(
[14:04:23] <anonimasu> tiy can ignore deps..
[14:04:25] <anonimasu> you..
[14:04:26] <jepler> huh. I haven't had problems as bad as that, but I've never tried updating bdi 4.30 much. It's possible paul botched something...
[14:04:36] <anonimasu> I do that at the laptop
[14:04:38] <Jacky^> alex_joni: it depend on what is used, stable,testing,unstable
[14:04:43] <alex_joni> sarge
[14:04:43] <anonimasu> I broke something when I forced fglrx there..
[14:04:48] <anonimasu> and I dont care really
[14:04:49] <anonimasu> :)
[14:04:49] <Jacky^> I got lot of update any day .. :/
[14:05:06] <Jacky^> but I choosed to help developers finding bugs
[14:05:17] <anonimasu> if I run apt it wants to install a xorg version.. other then the most recent I compiled myself
[14:05:18] <Jacky^> thats why im using sid
[14:05:20] <anonimasu> because the pkg depends on it,,.
[14:05:26] <anonimasu> and you cant make it forget about a dep..
[14:05:35] <Jacky^> testing would be nice for 'normal' use I think ..
[14:05:40] <anonimasu> unless you have a dummy package with the same name if I remember it right
[14:05:56] <alex_joni> oh.. that's fscked
[14:06:04] <alex_joni> building dummy packages just to tweak it
[14:06:26] <anonimasu> hm, it installed without compilers again
[14:06:30] <anonimasu> without asking if I wanted devel stuff.
[14:06:37] <anonimasu> yay!
[14:06:48] <alex_joni> debian rules?
[14:06:50] <alex_joni> ROFL
[14:07:33] <anonimasu> I need valium.
[14:07:43] <alex_joni> try xanax
[14:07:51] <Jacky^> hehe
[14:08:19] <Jacky^> try hascish too
[14:08:21] <Jacky^> lol
[14:09:12] <Jacky^> anonimasu: came on ! Debian isnt hard
[14:09:18] <Jacky^> :-)
[14:10:07] <ValarQ> Jacky^: it got it's tricky edges
[14:10:26] <ValarQ> Jacky^: like downgrading many packages...
[14:11:20] <Jacky^> it depend on pin preferences too in apt
[14:11:32] <Jacky^> I dont want to say Debian is perfect
[14:11:41] <Jacky^> but its near .. :)
[14:11:52] <anonimasu> Jacky^: install debian for me.
[14:12:04] <Jacky^> anonimasu: id use the old installer
[14:12:13] <Jacky^> tradictional way
[14:12:14] <ValarQ> debian is very good, for most people
[14:12:18] <Jacky^> never fail
[14:12:33] <Jacky^> sometime the simplest things are the better
[14:12:38] <Jacky^> ;)
[14:13:01] <ValarQ> "Gentoo for All the Unusual Reasons" http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/7438/print
[14:13:15] <anonimasu> Jacky^: where do I find a old installer that will do network installs?
[14:13:23] <anonimasu> debian 3.0 ?
[14:13:34] <Jacky^> anonimasu: you can start with a simple floppy damn
[14:13:46] <Jacky^> just configure your nic card
[14:13:58] <Jacky^> then download all what you need
[14:14:05] <Jacky^> in few steps
[14:14:32] <anonimasu> the trouble is that the fd refused to work in the server..
[14:14:33] <anonimasu> for some reason.
[14:14:54] <Jacky^> uhm
[14:15:04] <ValarQ> * ValarQ only got a 5½" drive
[14:15:09] <anonimasu> dont tell me I need a fdd.
[14:15:29] <Jacky^> no ..
[14:16:33] <anonimasu> :(
[14:16:41] <anonimasu> I'll install slack on it soon.
[14:16:51] <Jacky^> anonimasu: just join #debian
[14:17:10] <anonimasu> Jacky^: why?
[14:17:30] <Jacky^> to ask of course
[14:17:37] <anonimasu> about what?
[14:17:48] <Jacky^> your issue ?
[14:19:07] <anonimasu> the issue that several mirrors are lacking packages
[14:19:48] <anonimasu> or the issue that being treated like I've never seen a console in my whole life.
[14:19:49] <Jacky^> hehe
[14:19:59] <anonimasu> "OMG ITS TEXT!"
[14:20:10] <Jacky^> this is the baazar style development ;)
[14:21:02] <Jacky^> at least .. if youre goverment is censuring some url ..
[14:21:31] <anonimasu> They are not censoring anything.
[14:21:44] <Jacky^> some day ago an italian girl lives in Germany asked me to help her to join an italian university website
[14:21:52] <Jacky^> strangely ..
[14:22:15] <Jacky^> i gived some url and she was not able to reach it ..
[14:22:40] <Jacky^> not sure at all ..
[14:23:22] <Jacky^> stallman was been in some african country years ago
[14:23:39] <Jacky^> he noticed as was impossible from there to ssh in us
[14:24:18] <Jacky^> the net isnt free at all
[14:25:32] <anonimasu> I really dont care about the political situation in africa.
[14:26:28] <Jacky^> thats was just an example
[14:27:02] <Jacky^> many goverments are applyng filter on theyr nets
[14:28:41] <Jacky^> is also interesting to know as searching 'word' in msn give MS office in the first results
[14:28:46] <Jacky^> hehe
[14:29:35] <Jacky^> retunr*
[14:31:47] <Jacky^> searching 'free software' with google I get Risultati 1 - 10 su circa per free software. (0,05 secondi)
[14:32:24] <Jacky^> im courius to know how many results get others peoples from other coutries all around the world
[14:50:23] <Jacky^> anonimasu: solved ? nothing to do ?
[14:50:41] <skunkworks> Results 1 - 10 of about 1,020,000,000 for free software. (0.21 seconds)
[14:51:23] <Jacky^> skunkworks: good.. I want to ask to Yuga when hes online ..
[14:52:52] <Jacky^> he should get the same results
[14:52:55] <Jacky^> too
[15:23:41] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[20:55:30] <jepler> les_w: I use spambayes at home on my unix system. they have an outlook plugin, and my girlfriend used it for a few months. it's free. http://spambayes.sourceforge.net/
[20:58:20] <alex_joni> jepler: ever used spamassassin?
[21:00:27] <jepler> alex_joni: yes, I did for awhile. It's also the filter they use at my office.
[21:00:46] <alex_joni> I set it up on a system, yet it works like crap
[21:00:55] <jepler> alex_joni: cradek might have some tips for you
[21:00:57] <alex_joni> been training it for a while.. not much improvement
[21:01:48] <jepler> with spamassassin, bayesian filtering is just one of the things it uses .. stuff like RBLs are also important
[21:01:55] <jepler> with spambayes, there is only bayesian filtering
[21:01:59] <alex_joni> right..
[21:02:00] <Jymmm> RBL's are bs
[21:02:14] <alex_joni> but bayes is pretty high on spamassassin
[21:02:20] <alex_joni> so I would expect it to work..
[21:02:40] <cradek> RBLs are very useful but shouldn't be the only tool in your toolbox
[21:03:29] <Jymmm> RBL's are bs (huge amounts of false-positiives)
[21:04:03] <jepler> Jymmm: with the default configuration, no single RBL listing is enough to tag a message as spam on its own
[21:04:13] <alex_joni> cradek: got some spare time sometime to help me tune a spamassassin?
[21:04:16] <jepler> Jymmm: you'd need several RBL hits, or an RBL hit plus strong bayesian result, etc
[21:04:41] <cradek> alex_joni: the default tunings work pretty well
[21:04:48] <alex_joni> not for me :(
[21:04:54] <alex_joni> about 50-70 spams / day
[21:05:06] <jepler> cradek: like the ones that penalize any message not in english? Might not be so great for alex :-P
[21:05:18] <jepler> (or am I thinking of some other product that treated non-english as spam by default)
[21:05:31] <alex_joni> jepler: don't really have e-mail on that box.. only some mailings
[21:05:45] <Jymmm> jepler there are FAR BETTER methods of dealing with spam than pure filtering.
[21:05:48] <alex_joni> and once in a while one or two emails.. the rest is spam
[21:06:11] <jepler> Jymmm: what is "pure filtering"?
[21:06:35] <Jymmm> jepler : based upon content of msg.
[21:06:47] <Jymmm> or based upon a 'list'
[21:06:49] <cradek> jepler: first you say RBLs are bad, then content filtering?
[21:06:53] <cradek> jepler: what do you suggest?
[21:06:56] <cradek> err
[21:06:58] <cradek> Jymmm:
[21:06:59] <cradek> Jymmm:
[21:07:04] <alex_joni> heh
[21:07:15] <cradek> alex_joni: jepler is right; it may only work well for english mail
[21:07:25] <alex_joni> mostly it is english mail
[21:07:39] <cradek> alex_joni: do you have bayes working (and have you given it a chance to train?)
[21:07:43] <alex_joni> it's very rare that I get e-mail in other languages..
[21:07:44] <Jymmm> cradek: You have to control the MTA's, the problem is the most ISP's postmasters are clueless (for one) too lazy for others, or just ignorant of the specs.
[21:07:52] <alex_joni> cradek: would 7 months count?
[21:08:18] <cradek> alex_joni: is it autotraining?
[21:08:26] <alex_joni> of training I mean.. not autotraining
[21:08:30] <jepler> Jymmm: the modern spam problem has very little to do with badly administered MTAs and much more to do with badly-administered end-user machines with broadband (spyware/virus/whatever).
[21:08:37] <alex_joni> I'm training off a mailbox, moving spam to there
[21:08:48] <jepler> Jymmm: (it's not just the "open relay" problem anymore)
[21:08:54] <cradek> alex_joni: is bayes working? (do you get scores in the headers?)
[21:08:57] <alex_joni> yes
[21:09:01] <alex_joni> but most are under 5
[21:09:06] <alex_joni> which is the limit for spam
[21:09:07] <Jymmm> jepler: do you know RFC821?
[21:09:14] <cradek> no, I mean bayes scores
[21:09:26] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on dsplabs.cs.utt.ro
[21:09:26] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Level: **
[21:09:26] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_99,DATE_IN_PAST_24_48,
[21:09:26] <alex_joni> autolearn=no version=3.0.2
[21:09:45] <cradek> ok, BAYES_99
[21:10:01] <cradek> I'm surprised you only get 2.2 points out of all of those
[21:10:20] <alex_joni> here's another one:
[21:10:20] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Level: *
[21:10:20] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,MIME_BASE64_BLANKS,
[21:10:20] <alex_joni> MIME_BASE64_TEXT autolearn=no version=3.0.2
[21:10:58] <alex_joni> or another:
[21:10:58] <cradek> are you allowing it to use dns? I don't see any dns stuff
[21:10:59] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Level:
[21:10:59] <alex_joni> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_05,DATE_IN_PAST_24_48
[21:10:59] <alex_joni> autolearn=no version=3.0.2
[21:11:15] <cradek> yeah you're not getting dnsbl etf
[21:11:17] <cradek> etc
[21:11:25] <alex_joni> I see.. I should check that..
[21:11:35] <cradek> skip_rbl_checks 0
[21:11:51] <cradek> use_dcc 1
[21:12:40] <alex_joni> thsi would be in /etc/spamassassin/local.cf ?
[21:12:45] <cradek> how do you invoke SA?
[21:12:55] <cradek> yes probably something .cf like that
[21:12:57] <alex_joni> procmail iirc
[21:13:40] <jepler> Jymmm: I'm sure you could trip me up if you asked me technical questions about RFC821
[21:13:56] <alex_joni> cradek: spamc
[21:15:35] <jepler> Jymmm: but isn't RFC821 long superceded by RFC2821?
[21:21:54] <Jymmm> jepler: Sorta (technically, yes) it's really an abbr version of 821 but 2821 is missing far too much. Either way, do you know either one?
[21:22:37] <Jymmm> jepler: I missed the 'techical trip you up' part...
[21:23:09] <Jymmm> so nm =)
[21:26:00] <jepler> Jymmm: which part of RFCx821 do you think is responsible for the spam problem these days?
[21:27:10] <Jymmm> jepler: it's not that simple. You do have to know it to understand. It's fairly complicated pocess/concept to understnad it all, and I can't just simplify it. sowwwy.
[21:29:17] <jepler> Jymmm: maybe you know of a web page that has a good explanation of what you're getting at?
[21:30:22] <cradek> * cradek coughs
[21:30:40] <alex_joni> ok.. finished my mail to the dev list
[21:30:44] <Jymmm> jepler: Actually no. It was a concept I learned while working for a company that produced MTA's commercially for DC's.
[21:30:57] <alex_joni> but I wonder if that's proper.. or maybe a wiki page would be better?
[21:31:22] <jepler> DCs?
[21:31:29] <SWPadnos_> if necessary, you (or someone else) can transfer the mail text to a wiki page ;)
[21:31:30] <Jymmm> jepler: Data Centers
[21:31:44] <alex_joni> ok swampy.. then off it goes ;)
[21:32:15] <cradek> Jymmm: I haven't met a commercial MTA that doesn't suck.
[21:32:26] <cradek> Jymmm: but this has nothing to do with spam...?
[21:34:31] <Jacky^> spamassassin ?
[21:35:00] <alex_joni> read the logs Jacky^
[21:35:21] <Jacky^> oh .. I cant for all .. losted connection many times
[21:35:24] <Jacky^> np
[21:35:45] <Jacky^> this damn dsl is working bad since few days
[21:36:06] <Jacky^> too much rain around :/
[21:36:18] <jepler> my dsl is also unreliable when it rains
[21:36:36] <Jacky^> id like to know if it depend on my isp
[21:36:52] <Jacky^> or if is the cable .. in the outside
[21:36:57] <Jacky^> :(
[21:37:26] <Jacky^> may a quality dsl line test could help ..
[21:37:35] <Jacky^> wnna ask tomorrow
[21:43:06] <k4ts> hello
[21:43:13] <k4ts> hi les_w
[21:43:17] <k4ts> hi alex_joni
[21:43:26] <alex_joni> hello
[22:28:43] <Jacky^> yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh
[22:28:47] <Jacky^> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4526746.stm
[22:29:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders what crap that is now..
[22:29:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands alex_joni the "Jacky^ crap filter"
[22:30:12] <alex_joni> don't want to apply that.. he won't like the kick
[22:31:14] <Jacky^> :PP
[22:31:36] <operose> I just read my whole backlog because I saw activity in here finally
[22:31:50] <operose> dissappointed to find spamassassin configuration
[22:31:52] <operose> :D
[22:32:11] <operose> (not a very big backlog)
[22:32:11] <alex_joni> operose: usually there's a lot more
[22:32:16] <alex_joni> logger_aj, bookmark
[22:32:16] <alex_joni> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-12-14#T22-32-16
[22:32:25] <operose> cool
[22:32:27] <operose> thank you
[22:32:28] <alex_joni> about a year of logs to learn from if you really want
[22:32:38] <alex_joni> but if you got questions it's best to just ask
[22:33:03] <operose> no specific questions yet, just here to soak up the knowledge
[22:33:26] <alex_joni> start by looking at the wiki.linuxcnc.org
[22:33:40] <alex_joni> and subscribing to the user / developers lists at sourceforge.net
[22:33:50] <operose> I've stayed away from CNC mostly because I didn't really wanna setup a dos or windows machine to control it
[22:33:53] <operose> then I found the linuxcnc page
[22:33:58] <operose> and was liek ":D"
[22:34:27] <cradek> operose: don't be fooled by the out-of-date documentation, the project is very active
[22:35:36] <Jacky^> sigh :(��
[22:35:40] <operose> that was one of the questions, yes ;)
[22:35:47] <Jacky^> Phisical Line error ..
[22:36:13] <alex_joni> just got the nicest christmas swf ;)
[22:36:18] <alex_joni> anyone wants an email?
[22:36:46] <Jacky^> gcsoftware@libero.it
[22:36:50] <operose> anyone here controlling a plasma cutter with emc?
[22:36:57] <Jacky^> alex_joni: no backdoor inside ? :P
[22:36:58] <operose> that's something I'd be interested in
[22:37:02] <Jacky^> hahah
[22:37:04] <cradek> operose: yes, at least one guy is
[22:37:07] <operose> cool
[22:37:16] <alex_joni> operose: and another planing to
[22:37:18] <operose> I frequent HSM bbs and metalillness.org
[22:37:24] <operose> there are some guys doing really cool stuff there
[22:37:39] <cradek> operose: emc1 has motion-synchronized I/O (to turn a cutter on and off) - I'm not sure if that's in emc2 yet
[22:38:22] <alex_joni> cradek: correct, but it will get in there soon (before the release)
[22:38:27] <Jacky^> operose: robin_sz may could help about plasma cutter
[22:38:37] <cradek> alex_joni: are you doing it?
[22:38:48] <alex_joni> cradek: if I'll be motivated enough, I will
[22:38:53] <cradek> haha
[22:38:54] <alex_joni> got to find the time though
[22:38:55] <alex_joni> :)
[22:39:12] <alex_joni> I am kinda motivated.. just played out your standard response :D
[22:39:41] <operose> hehe
[22:40:07] <cradek> operose: we're about to make the first release of emc2, the next-generation version of emc
[22:41:00] <cradek> well goodnight, I'm off
[22:41:05] <operose> yeah I was reading a little bit about that
[22:41:06] <operose> good night
[22:41:45] <alex_joni> bye chris
[22:42:05] <alex_joni> Jacky^: got it?
[22:42:45] <Jacky^> alex_joni: yeah .. I see the small penguin warning me for mail received
[22:42:48] <Jacky^> looking
[22:44:05] <operose> so, since I'm new here, what is it that you all are controlling with emc currently?
[22:45:13] <alex_joni> mostly milling machines
[22:45:13] <operose> drill presses, lathes, mills, spotwelders, tubing benders?
[22:45:15] <operose> cool
[22:45:27] <alex_joni> that's the initial purpose of emc
[22:45:34] <Jacky^> alex_joni: lol !
[22:45:36] <Jacky^> coool
[22:45:38] <Jacky^> hahah
[22:45:39] <alex_joni> but there have been a lot of strange things in it's history..
[22:46:01] <alex_joni> operose: non-trivial kinematics (like hexapods, puma-typed robots)
[22:46:13] <Jacky^> alex_joni: ty
[22:46:20] <alex_joni> I built a toy tripod just for fun
[22:46:28] <alex_joni> operose: care to see that?
[22:46:41] <operose> sure
[22:47:41] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/
[22:49:01] <operose> holy huge pics batman
[22:49:03] <operose> good thing I'm at work
[22:49:25] <operose> my pics are always like that too... once you take 150 of them, you really don't feel like resizing them all
[22:49:59] <alex_joni> yeah... some are smaller though..
[22:50:07] <alex_joni> guess I never cared enough for resizing
[22:52:18] <operose> you built this just for the hell of it, or with purpose?
[22:52:38] <alex_joni> it's a proof of concept
[22:52:41] <operose> cool
[22:52:44] <alex_joni> and I tested kinematics in emc2
[22:52:56] <alex_joni> fixed some problems with those in the process
[22:53:17] <alex_joni> I trust you know what kinematics are
[22:53:23] <operose> guess I need to hit the wiki and figure out kinematics
[22:53:26] <operose> haha
[22:53:29] <operose> no
[22:53:33] <operose> I'm new to this
[22:53:45] <alex_joni> ok. kinematics is the transformation from joints to carthesian
[22:54:04] <alex_joni> if you have a milling machine, that one usually has some directions it can move
[22:54:14] <alex_joni> the directions are called X, Y, Z, etc
[22:54:19] <operose> right
[22:54:24] <alex_joni> but people assume those are axes
[22:54:31] <operose> hm
[22:54:34] <operose> they aren't?
[22:54:38] <operose> lol
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> in fact they are actually machine joints (which in this particular example happen to be the same as the axes)
[22:55:00] <alex_joni> but imagine a hexapod, or a robot
[22:55:04] <alex_joni> or even my toy (a tripod)
[22:55:13] <alex_joni> the machine actuators are joints
[22:55:27] <alex_joni> and the tool needs to move in axes (carthesian, X,Y,Z)
[22:55:39] <alex_joni> so there needs to be some transformation from one system to the other
[22:55:48] <alex_joni> got it?
[22:56:47] <operose> yeah
[22:56:49] <operose> makes sense
[22:56:54] <alex_joni> that's in a nutshell
[22:56:59] <alex_joni> just to get an idea of it
[23:01:01] <operose> well thanks for explaining
[23:01:13] <alex_joni> np.. off to bed for me
[23:01:21] <operose> goodnight
[23:01:33] <alex_joni> night.. and welcome to the club ;)
[23:18:28] <operose> man
[23:18:33] <operose> alex_joni's toy is sweet
[23:18:34] <operose> :)
[23:18:45] <operose> I can see how easy it would be to turn that into a plasma cutting table
[23:19:03] <operose> or a good basis for one
[23:31:02] <k4ts> night