#emc | Logs for 2005-12-06

[11:21:04] <[Bartje]> hi, somebody avaialable?
[11:29:56] <anonimasu> hm
[11:29:57] <anonimasu> yes
[11:29:58] <anonimasu> kind of
[11:30:30] <[Bartje]> anyone with experience of configuring EMC disks in Linux?
[11:33:46] <anonimasu> disks?
[11:33:51] <anonimasu> you mean partitioning?
[11:54:24] <fenn> yeesh.
[11:54:45] <fenn> every time i write a message about kinematics, or trajectory planning, it takes like 4 housr
[12:33:05] <anonimasu> :)
[12:33:06] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:33:22] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is doing prototyping by hand :(
[12:33:31] <anonimasu> takes hours
[12:33:37] <anonimasu> compared to minutes on a cnc lathe
[12:46:46] <anonimasu> fenn: anoying
[12:46:47] <anonimasu> annoying..
[12:59:57] <anonimasu> :)
[13:03:22] <skunkworks> -4deg f
[13:03:53] <anonimasu> hm
[13:04:02] <anonimasu> does anyone have a idea if threading is comming along at all?
[13:12:46] <skunkworks> 08:58:04 <skunkworks> I see referenced to lathe functionality in emc - is that something that is being worked on?
[13:12:47] <skunkworks> 08:59:54 <les_w> paul has something working I think skunk
[13:12:47] <skunkworks> 09:00:23 <les_w> on a boxford ME10 or something
[13:13:29] <anonimasu> that dosent help much
[13:13:33] <anonimasu> :(
[13:25:50] <skunkworks> John might be the one to talk to. who ever he is ;)
[13:25:59] <skunkworks> paul I mean
[13:31:48] <les_w> morning. I will try to reply to josh's post as well...thinking about it some
[13:33:22] <les_w> while I build up fires in the stoves...it's cold
[14:34:00] <les_w> ok post to dev list is off
[14:42:22] <etla> got it.
[14:42:34] <etla> should we start a wiki page with traj papers ?
[14:43:46] <les_w> sounds like a good plan...but many are copyrighted I would guess
[14:44:04] <les_w> links would be fine
[14:44:22] <les_w> I would think
[14:44:42] <etla> yes, can't host them on your own site
[14:45:07] <etla> but there's gotta be lot's of academic users (me!) on the lists who can download and distribute
[14:45:18] <etla> for educational purposes that can be done.
[14:45:26] <les_w> The better journal papers on line cost money
[14:45:37] <etla> well my university pays that :)
[14:45:47] <les_w> Well if there's a way...yeah do it!
[14:48:10] <etla> btw who hosts the linuxcnc site ? the post a few days ago about moving everything into wiki format and changing wiki software was a good one
[14:48:50] <les_w> I think Steve Stallings
[14:50:34] <etla> hope the board of dictators make decisions on that one
[14:52:58] <les_w> well, lobby them!
[15:06:51] <anonimasu> hm
[15:07:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu smiles
[15:07:12] <anonimasu> hey les
[15:07:14] <anonimasu> what's up?
[15:16:02] <les_w> was in the shower
[15:16:24] <les_w> just another day another dollar
[15:21:38] <anonimasu> hm ok
[16:05:41] <les_w> owwww calls from lawyers. I putter in the lab a bit. Then law dogs come out of the woodwrk and argue. Why?
[16:06:42] <les_w> I'm gonna call the VP technology of the other firm and put this crap to bed right now.
[16:14:39] <les_w> aw, telephone tag.
[16:14:44] <les_w> blah
[16:25:41] <Jymmm> Turn on speakers.... http://members.cox.net/transam57/lights.wmv
[16:26:55] <les_w> heh
[16:27:07] <les_w> ok rant mode off
[16:27:28] <Jymmm> =)
[16:27:32] <les_w> I tried rating to the chicken, but it does not care
[16:27:50] <les_w> It only thinks about why to cross the road and stuff.
[16:29:27] <Jymmm> I dont think it thinks about that either =)
[16:29:40] <Jymmm> more of a nike chicken... JUST DO IT!
[16:30:22] <les_w> it was sleeting/hailing a couple days ago. It just runs around in circles squawking
[16:30:39] <Jymmm> because the sky is falling of course..
[16:30:46] <les_w> yup
[16:33:35] <anonimasu> :)
[16:35:50] <les_w> Chickens seem to not be paragons of intellect. It knows to peck on the front door when its hungry. It knew to peck Paul when he was here too.
[16:38:16] <Jymmm> lol
[16:38:29] <Jymmm> Paul == Chicken Feed ?
[16:38:54] <les_w> I guess. It pecked him good.
[16:39:18] <Jymmm> Nikon battery recall
[16:49:52] <anonimasu> hehe
[16:50:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has been doing prototyping this afternoon
[16:50:04] <anonimasu> I love doing that kind of stuff
[16:50:11] <anonimasu> now if I just had the cnc machine finished
[16:50:12] <anonimasu> :)
[16:50:14] <anonimasu> and a cnc lathe
[16:50:24] <anonimasu> brb
[16:59:00] <les_w> I forgot to turn on the heat. Machines are cold soaked. Have to wait an hour or so.
[17:00:37] <Jymmm> les_w: 2 gallons of gasoline and a match will warm em up
[17:03:32] <les_w> well it is warming up in the valleys. Checked the mount Mitchell webcam....7 balmy degrees f this morning
[17:04:09] <Jymmm> I had to hose off my gf's car this morning
[17:06:22] <les_w> just the car not the gf?
[17:06:38] <skunkworks> -4 here this morning - currently it is 2f
[17:06:54] <les_w> wow. where?
[17:07:02] <skunkworks> western WI
[17:07:29] <websys> LaCrosse?
[17:07:34] <skunkworks> yep
[17:07:59] <skunkworks> know lacrosse?
[17:08:10] <les_w> Have been there some
[17:08:11] <websys> I'm near Milwaukee
[17:08:19] <skunkworks> ah - nice
[17:08:42] <les_w> good small plane flying destination from chicago
[17:08:48] <skunkworks> just way U2 at the bradly center a few months ago
[17:09:10] <skunkworks> Nice little airport
[17:09:45] <skunkworks> I have to run for a bit - bbl
[17:09:55] <les_w> k
[17:15:40] <Jymmm> ooooooooooooooooooooh man.... need to find a gift for my gf and have no clue
[17:16:35] <cradek> you are asking in the WRONG place
[17:16:46] <Jymmm> I wasn't asking =)
[17:16:57] <Jymmm> just whining
[17:17:03] <cradek> oh
[17:17:24] <cradek> never whine to men - they'll try to help solve your problem
[17:17:40] <Jymmm> lol, oh so true
[17:17:41] <cradek> I hear it's what makes us so unpopular with the women
[17:17:55] <cradek> we're not "good listeners"
[17:17:58] <Jymmm> I hear it's to make em STFU
[17:18:09] <Jymmm> the women folk that is
[17:18:13] <cradek> hmm
[17:18:19] <les_w> morning your honor
[17:18:47] <cradek> * cradek moons les_w
[17:18:49] <Jymmm> lerman ?!
[17:19:01] <les_w> haha
[17:19:54] <cradek> les_w: did you see that we discovered that emc will exceed your ini maxvel in some cases?
[17:20:34] <les_w> no...but we have turned that off with the #ifdef in tp.c
[17:21:04] <cradek> in the last couple days?
[17:21:13] <les_w> I suspect we turned off the bad misblend but also turned off needed stuff
[17:21:26] <les_w> no last summer
[17:21:32] <cradek> oh, the "fix"
[17:21:36] <les_w> right
[17:21:39] <cradek> I think it's different now, not fixed
[17:21:42] <cradek> but I'm not talking about that
[17:21:58] <cradek> if you have your axis maxvels set differently
[17:22:01] <les_w> that also turns off a safety to prevent instances of exceeding maxvel
[17:22:08] <cradek> AND you use feed override over 100%
[17:22:23] <cradek> the slower axes can be driven significantly faster than their maxvel
[17:22:44] <les_w> oh...hmm
[17:22:57] <Jymmm> oh this is interesting... I can't get CircuitCity.com becaseu it's blocked by my router, but the thing is only a handfull of ad-serving places are in there.
[17:23:09] <cradek> (in emc2+stepgen, this just causes following errors)
[17:23:10] <Jymmm> and not that domain either. lol
[17:23:15] <les_w> mine are set the same
[17:23:29] <cradek> my Z is a different scale and (much) lower maxvel
[17:23:32] <lerman> Jymmm: did you call my name?
[17:23:58] <Jymmm> lerman Nope, some other slime ball did
[17:24:17] <Jymmm> oh stinking nick completion
[17:24:25] <Jymmm> nm
[17:24:39] <les_w> btw is josh ever on this channel?
[17:24:46] <les_w> by some other nick?
[17:25:09] <les_w> Was carefully reading his post...
[17:25:10] <cradek> I don't know who josh is
[17:25:21] <les_w> me either really
[17:27:34] <les_w> oh well machines should be warm. Off to turn perfectly good chunks of metal into useless chips.
[17:28:31] <Jymmm> les_w Good Luck =)
[17:37:02] <Jymmm> Hoyl shit.... a universal remote control that's upgradable by placing it next to the earpiece of the telephone.
[17:37:58] <cradek> I remember many years ago a music CD with a track of Bell 212
[17:38:00] <cradek> I wonder what that was
[17:38:26] <Jymmm> Bell 212?
[17:38:38] <cradek> I think it's 212, maybe 202
[17:38:45] <cradek> the 300 baud two-tone standard
[17:38:46] <Jymmm> what is either one?
[17:38:51] <Jymmm> oh, ok
[17:39:11] <cradek> back before modems made a hissing noise
[17:39:18] <Jymmm> heh
[17:39:27] <cradek> anyway it told some story about how the band got arrested or something
[17:39:35] <cradek> I wonder what that was
[17:39:43] <Jymmm> My HT has 16 DTMF keys.... 0-9*# plus ABCD
[17:40:01] <cradek> probably information society or kraftwerk or one of those
[17:40:28] <Jymmm> OH gawd... kreftwerk - havne't heard that in years
[17:40:50] <cradek> must be bell 202 - bell 212 is a helicopter or something
[17:41:52] <Jymmm> http://www.ofausa.com/remote.php?type=URC%209960
[17:54:59] <skunkworks> credek - what is z scaling?
[18:02:02] <Jymmm> * Jymmm thinks he found his gf a xmas gift... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&Q=&is=REG&O=productlist&kw=PAPV1&cpncode=09-4058981-2&sku=362925&srccode=cii_13736960
[18:02:59] <Jymmm> or http://www.pacificdigital.com/products.asp?gpcid=6&cid=34&scid=120&ItemID=785
[18:05:56] <skunkworks> if your going to spend that much - give her something she can really use ;) http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=iB120S1&s=dhs
[18:07:41] <Jymmm> For one... it never be a Dell.
[18:08:35] <skunkworks> ah - I don't descriminate. ;)
[18:10:16] <skunkworks> ? http://www.gateway.com/products/GConfig/proddetails.asp?system_id=nx200s&seg=hm&cmpid=consumer*HGG*NX200Sthinlightwidescreencustomize*PRODUCT_DETAILS:HOME:GATEWAY_NX200S
[18:10:51] <Jymmm> that's even worse.... more like http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cmod.to?seg=HHO&coid=-30395&sel=0&rcid=-26367&ccid=1291021
[18:11:16] <wb9mjn> Hi all....Bell 202 is a 1200 baud modem standard, FSK, commonly used on amateur packet radio....Bell 212 is also a modem standard, but was the standard during early computing
[18:11:26] <skunkworks> I must say - out of all the portables I have had - the toshibas where the highest quality
[18:11:33] <wb9mjn> for 1200 baud full duplex modems, its QPSK....
[19:08:12] <skunkworks> my dad, uncles and grandfather are all hams.
[19:09:01] <wb9mjn> Hi Skunk...
[19:09:19] <skunkworks> k9vqr, k9vqz and k9yyk
[19:09:28] <wb9mjn> Trying to figure out my tooling here....Think I am going to go ER-20, with Tromach...
[19:10:36] <wb9mjn> Can use the ER-20 with a MT-2 holder in the Lathe tail stock, and turn down a straight shank to 15 mm for the tool post bit and bar holder....solves three problems..
[19:11:25] <wb9mjn> Do not believe I have contact those guys before...lots of Hams...I m not on HF...not on any bands at the moments, no antennas or working radios on bands I have antennas...
[19:12:04] <wb9mjn> I was active in packet radio about 15 years ago....back before public access to the Internet was available...
[19:12:17] <cradek> wb9mjn: what's the 300 baud standard that we all used for years?
[19:12:30] <wb9mjn> I think its called Bell 103 ...
[19:12:43] <cradek> ok, that's what I mean then
[19:12:53] <wb9mjn> On HF packet it was used....there are much better modulations now for HF...
[19:13:06] <jepler> cradek: do you feel like you've wrapped your head around the axis abort+offset bug yet?
[19:13:07] <cradek> I only ever used phone lines...
[19:13:08] <wb9mjn> Can run them from the audio card of a PC...work great....
[19:13:53] <cradek> jepler: not really. I think you found more than I did (stale stat buffer?)
[19:14:22] <wb9mjn> HF is a difficult propagation enviorment...similar in some respects to HDTV propagation, plus doepler...
[19:14:25] <jepler> cradek: well, we poll(), I think emc may be giving out old information though.
[19:14:32] <wb9mjn> Random doepler, that is...
[19:15:01] <cradek> jepler: grr.
[19:15:24] <cradek> jepler: we could always force it into the right system with an mdi command before sending the offset
[19:15:41] <cradek> jepler: but that seems bad.
[19:16:16] <cradek> we need the equivalent of glPushMatrix: emcPushStatStuff
[19:16:43] <jepler> cradek: that's what I was just experimenting with. If emc says it's in g21, then send a g21 before sending the offset command
[19:16:49] <wb9mjn> The Tormach system is a 3/4 inch shank system, with a nose piece that is tramel cut...so it makes a solid reference to the spindle nose....Looks to be very repeatable...
[19:17:00] <cradek> jepler: good idea
[19:19:31] <skunkworks> http://www.iscar.com/ProductUpdate/PDF/InchShrinkIn_6_2.pdf this?
[19:20:58] <wb9mjn> Thats the other advantage to ER-20...its well supported by the professional tooling people, so if i need something fancy, its there...
[19:21:26] <skunkworks> https://www.littlemachineshop.com/Instructions/TTSDataSheetRev-B.pdf
[19:21:42] <wb9mjn> Yep...that the one skunkworks....
[19:21:58] <wb9mjn> It makes a R8 spindle into something workable for a CNC....
[19:23:07] <skunkworks> it is nice having a way to quick change. with the gantry we are playing with we just have a router for a spindle - it is a pain.
[19:23:17] <wb9mjn> Only think I do not like is that its a 3/4 inch shank....If they made it a R8 tail, with the tramel cut nose end, that would reduce the intermediate source of TIR ...
[19:23:26] <wb9mjn> That is, the 3/4 inch R8 collet...
[19:23:47] <skunkworks> they alos make a quck change setup for routers also - I think dad wants to play with it
[19:23:51] <wb9mjn> Think they got greedy and wanted to market to MT3 mini mills as well....
[19:25:46] <wb9mjn> But then it would have to be precission machined as well, too...as the R8 angle would have to be perfectly positioned to make friction when the nose piece bottomed out...
[19:25:54] <wb9mjn> Still...some CAT stuff is like that....
[19:26:33] <wb9mjn> Might be wrong here...just thinking out loud...
[19:26:56] <wb9mjn> If it was a 1 inch shank...would be nicer...
[19:27:55] <wb9mjn> With the new arrangement here, I have lost some head room from the table to the spindle nose...so need a low protrusion solution...And heck, its only a 1/4 HP machine, too, hi...
[19:28:06] <wb9mjn> So, the 3/4 inch shank is probably fine for now....
[19:29:39] <wb9mjn> On the lathe, with the bit in the tail stock, there is noticeable (.02?) deflection when a center bit starts....with the keyless drill chuck...Probably because it sticks out of the tailstock by
[19:29:46] <wb9mjn> 4 inches....
[19:30:18] <wb9mjn> With the ER-20, it ll stick out of the tail stock by no more than 2 inches...will reduce the moment arm back to the tail stock slide...
[19:30:49] <wb9mjn> Ideally, and MT-2 short center drill would be the best possible...do not know where to get those, though...
[19:31:55] <wb9mjn> The tool post for the lathe I have has bar holder with a 15 mm ID....which is a wierd size apparently both in Europe and the US...
[19:33:33] <wb9mjn> So, to hold round tools there are no bushings available... Thinking I could get another ER-20 holder, and turn down the shank...but for it to work would need a center hole in the back
[19:33:39] <wb9mjn> of the holder....
[19:34:35] <wb9mjn> Then just chuck up a 1/2 inch bar in the front of the holder, put that in the lathe collet, put the center in the tail stock, and a nice concentric cut could be made....
[19:35:58] <wb9mjn> With the three holders, and a set of ER-20 collets, I would have a short 1/16 to 1/2 inch chucking system for the three needs here....
[19:36:01] <wb9mjn> Sound right ?
[19:39:41] <wb9mjn> Got better idea for making the tail concentric...chuck 3/4 inch bar into the lathe...turn down to 1/2 inch (to get true concentricity)...chuck the ER-20 holder onto the 1/2 inch protrusion,
[19:39:55] <wb9mjn> then turn down the tail of the ER-20 holder....
[20:11:14] <anonimasu> iab
[20:11:46] <anonimasu> hello
[20:11:53] <chinamill> Hello
[20:18:19] <jepler> cradek: yay, it's an emc bug
[20:18:47] <cradek> I thought we would get a notice in the channel
[20:18:58] <cradek> but yeah, it's definitely not our bug
[20:34:23] <SWPadnos> ok - good bug report there cradek (and jepler )
[20:35:07] <jepler> thanks
[20:35:19] <SWPadnos> units are a problem in several places. My personal view is that any distance(s) be passed with units
[20:35:40] <SWPadnos> ie, 1.5 has no meaning, unless you also include (inches, mm, cm, meters, microns, angstroms, etc)
[20:36:10] <icee> I don't know that that's a good idea
[20:36:18] <anonimasu> hm
[20:36:22] <anonimasu> dont you guys machine in angstroms?
[20:36:29] <anonimasu> :/
[20:36:43] <icee> Because that means anything that accepts a measurement hast to accept the responsibility for converting it
[20:36:50] <SWPadnos> correct
[20:36:52] <icee> I think the interface should specify the units
[20:37:05] <SWPadnos> so you make the RT and other low level stuff always use "machine units"
[20:37:18] <SWPadnos> and everything else converts as necessary
[20:37:20] <petev> swp: at what API?
[20:37:38] <petev> the g-code interp has modal behavior for this
[20:37:46] <SWPadnos> good question - I don't have a full solution (if I did, I'd probably check it into CVS)
[20:37:52] <icee> IMO there's more to go wrong by 'converting as necessary' all over the place-- dilution of precision, possible mistakes/edge cases, etc
[20:37:54] <petev> so does canon now, but canon could be changed
[20:38:17] <SWPadnos> sure, but parameters, for instance, have no units, as the bug points out
[20:38:34] <SWPadnos> they should be converted somewhere, but aren't
[20:38:47] <petev> well I didn't see the details of the bug, but I think I agree with icee here
[20:38:59] <SWPadnos> (this could be some simple thing that was overlooked in one place, but I'm not sure of that)
[20:39:02] <petev> units should be something set modally so not to lose precision, etc.
[20:39:31] <icee> everytihng internally should be in machine units. and then for a few things where you want to support specific real world units for some reason (e.g. configuration), the module dealing with the configuration can convert back and forth through some nice conversion API
[20:39:57] <SWPadnos> take a look at the bug report cradek just filed
[20:40:12] <icee> got a link?
[20:40:20] <SWPadnos> nope - I got the email :)
[20:40:24] <SWPadnos> hold on
[20:40:48] <SWPadnos> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106744&aid=1374766&group_id=6744
[20:40:49] <icee> whatever it is, i'm sure there's plenty of ways to solve it other than encumbering all argument passing with a unit specification
[20:41:10] <SWPadnos> sure - that would fix this problem, but not any others that may arise
[20:41:21] <petev> well that just seems like a bug in the interp
[20:41:34] <petev> that code is a mess and needs fixin anyhow
[20:41:47] <SWPadnos> could be, but it reminded me of some conversations at Fest, about problems with units and conversions
[20:41:59] <icee> I think even if you had an interface like you're describing
[20:42:03] <icee> a problem like this could still occur
[20:42:10] <petev> agreed
[20:42:11] <SWPadnos> certainly.
[20:42:24] <icee> and IMO, you'd have more places to potentially make this type of mistake
[20:42:47] <petev> swp: did u look over the canon header I sent yesterday?
[20:42:52] <SWPadnos> well -it's not that complex (with or without a "conversion API")
[20:42:59] <SWPadnos> no - haven't had the chance
[20:43:10] <SWPadnos> I did try SolidWorks on VMWare though ;)
[20:43:19] <petev> we should consider this stuff when evaluating it
[20:43:37] <icee> how does solidworks run through vmware?
[20:43:42] <petev> but I would like to avoid units conversions whenever possible
[20:43:49] <icee> i tried pro/e a couple years ago and it wasn't very pleasing
[20:44:00] <petev> should only need to covert in HAL to get to physical units from encoders, etc.
[20:44:24] <petev> pro/e is powerfull, but the learning curve is steep
[20:44:47] <SWPadnos> vmware in general isn't the fastest thing in the world
[20:44:48] <icee> and in user interface, and for configuration.. all conversion can be at the edges of the system
[20:44:55] <icee> * icee really likes pro/e
[20:45:00] <icee> and actually, with wildfire, it's not so so bad now
[20:45:13] <SWPadnos> but a single Opteron 244 performs about the same as an Athlon XP 3400 or thereabouts
[20:45:36] <icee> that's acceptable for me.. i don't do anything that intricate
[20:45:39] <SWPadnos> I can take the sample ratchet screwdriver model (3.5M), and spin it around without stuttering
[20:46:11] <SWPadnos> unless I'm editing a single part in an assembly, and the rest is transparent, and it mostly fills the screen
[20:46:23] <SWPadnos> (running at 1400x1050 resolution)
[21:31:32] <zambaroo> teehee, no emc users here huh.. as in the san manufacturer?
[21:31:59] <SWPadnos> no - different EMC ;)
[21:35:13] <zambaroo> figured :P
[22:13:35] <Jacky^> hello alex_joni
[23:07:39] <anonimasu> hm
[23:13:37] <Jacky^> gnite
[23:13:43] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk