#emc | Logs for 2005-11-24

[00:03:11] <cradek> hi jmk
[00:03:16] <jmkasunich> hi
[00:03:28] <cradek> did you ever figure out that crash that one guy was having?
[00:03:38] <jmkasunich> you mean pete?
[00:03:48] <cradek> um sure
[00:03:53] <cradek> I didn't mean "that one guy"
[00:04:03] <jmkasunich> he traced it to a commit you made ;-)
[00:04:05] <cradek> hmm
[00:04:21] <cradek> who me? cradek's not here
[00:04:53] <cradek> can we start this conversation over?
[00:05:00] <jmkasunich> heh
[00:05:06] <jmkasunich> actually, the commit looks fine
[00:05:16] <cradek> * cradek turns his chair 360
[00:05:19] <jmkasunich> but its the difference between a build that crashes and one that doesnt
[00:05:44] <jmkasunich> I suspect it is revealing some timing issue or something else hard to pin down
[00:05:46] <cradek> are you still talking about emc2 task crashing?
[00:05:52] <jmkasunich> yea
[00:06:00] <cradek> I committed to emc2 task?
[00:06:05] <jmkasunich> yeah
[00:06:08] <jmkasunich> stand by
[00:06:33] <cradek> wow, I learn something every day
[00:06:38] <jmkasunich> pretty sure it was 9/17
[00:06:52] <jmkasunich> rs274ngc_pree.cc
[00:07:06] <cradek> looking...
[00:07:39] <cradek> wow, sf cvs is slow
[00:08:17] <cradek> oh yep, I remember that
[00:08:42] <cradek> but surely that's harmless
[00:09:10] <jmkasunich> those few lines, innocent as the seem, are the difference betwen a build that segfaults and takes down his entire box, and one that runs just fine
[00:09:34] <cradek> are you guys entirely sure of that?
[00:09:41] <cradek> I only ask because it seems hard to believe
[00:09:54] <jmkasunich> he's built about 10 different CVS snapshots, binary searching in on the one that fails
[00:10:01] <jmkasunich> this is the one
[00:10:08] <cradek> wow
[00:10:22] <cradek> but it works fine for dozens of other people?
[00:10:32] <jmkasunich> yeah, appears to
[00:10:49] <jmkasunich> I have a feeling it is some race condition or something
[00:10:55] <cradek> yuck.
[00:11:16] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:11:35] <jmkasunich> doesn't happen every time, but maybe 1 out of 2
[00:11:44] <cradek> he also says AXIS segfaults on him
[00:12:00] <jmkasunich> the 11/11 version did, I saw the same thing
[00:12:04] <cradek> when he clicks on lines in the preview I think?
[00:12:05] <jmkasunich> the current one seems OK
[00:12:10] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:12:12] <cradek> oh, so that's a non-problem?
[00:12:25] <jmkasunich> seems so
[00:12:36] <jmkasunich> he also reported that slowdown on the current version
[00:12:38] <cradek> that may have been when jepler was messing with making it load files faster or something
[00:12:47] <jmkasunich> I could not duplicte the slowdown
[00:12:56] <cradek> right, neither can I
[00:13:06] <jmkasunich> so there is something about his system...
[00:13:24] <jmkasunich> he's running BDI-4.20, which we have a lot of experience with
[00:13:48] <cradek> I don't trust anything but 4.30, and I barely trust that
[00:14:01] <jmkasunich> ha, I don't trust 4.30, cause I haven't used it
[00:14:02] <cradek> paul was constantly messing with the GL libs
[00:14:07] <jmkasunich> 4.20 has a lot more user-hours on it
[00:14:23] <jmkasunich> (4.20 was the release for a number of months)
[00:14:25] <cradek> we never got axis to work right on anything but 4.30
[00:14:40] <cradek> but I think that's because emc(1.5) was miscompiled
[00:14:54] <cradek> our target at the time was emc1.5
[00:15:04] <cradek> emc2 may have worked fine all along
[00:15:05] <jmkasunich> well I wouldn't know about that, I don't do 1.5
[00:15:20] <cradek> well I don't either.
[00:20:33] <SWP_Away> I don't see any change to rs274ngc_pre.cc on 9/17 - should this show up in webCVS?
[00:20:50] <jmkasunich> yes, I'm looking right at it
[00:21:00] <jmkasunich> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc?r1=1.18&r2=1.19
[00:21:14] <jmkasunich> oops, wrong date
[00:21:20] <SWP_Away> ok - phew :)
[00:21:42] <SWP_Away> I had always thought that 24 and 29 weren't equal to 17
[00:23:15] <SWP_Away> it sould be a stack size issue - there's an extra local char array declared
[00:23:21] <SWP_Away> s/sould/could/
[00:23:58] <SWP_Away> also, the call to save_parameters could push things over
[00:24:03] <SWP_Away> (the stack)
[00:24:15] <jmkasunich> good point
[00:24:45] <jmkasunich> when pete comes online, I'll tell him to make that array static and see what happens
[00:25:24] <jmkasunich> seenms odd tho, this is user space, stack limits are astronomical aren't they?
[00:25:29] <SWP_Away> should be, but possibly not
[01:05:28] <cradek> LINELEN is only 255
[01:05:40] <jmkasunich> seems like a very long shot
[01:05:48] <cradek> very
[01:06:26] <cradek> and I doubt any path on his system would be that long
[01:07:16] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is doing some serious sweeping
[01:07:22] <jmkasunich> getting rid of all the logging code
[01:07:33] <jmkasunich> its been mostly disabled for about a year
[01:07:48] <jmkasunich> but bits and pieces are still being compiled
[01:07:59] <jmkasunich> and some of it is even being called
[01:08:55] <Jacky^> gnight
[01:09:02] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[01:09:39] <Jymmm> gnight Jacky^afk
[01:10:51] <cradek> in the name of misguided safe coding, GET_EXTERNAL_PARAMETER_FILE_NAME calls strlen on something that may or may not be valid
[01:11:20] <cradek> who knows why the writer didn't use strncpy
[01:11:37] <jmkasunich> theres a lot of stuff like that
[01:11:48] <jmkasunich> some really hairy macros too
[01:12:03] <cradek> I don't know what fills out _parameter_file_name
[01:12:30] <cradek> but if a sync happens at the wrong time, this could certainly bomb.
[01:13:17] <cradek> char _parameter_file_name[LINELEN]; /* Not static.Driver
[01:13:17] <cradek> writes */
[01:13:24] <cradek> whatever that means...?
[01:14:19] <jmkasunich> what file?
[01:14:22] <cradek> it gets filled out at Interp::ini_load
[01:14:45] <cradek> and if inifile.find fails, it does NOT terminate the buffer
[01:15:15] <cradek> emc/task/emccanon.cc is the suspect strlen()
[01:15:42] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[01:15:43] <cradek> emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc is the ini_load that is supposed to fill it out
[01:16:06] <jepler> cradek: what did I miss? Are you looking at an emc bug or an axis one?
[01:16:14] <cradek> possible emc bug
[01:16:21] <cradek> crashes on one machine in the whole world
[01:16:25] <cradek> emc2
[01:16:33] <jepler> hah. good luck.
[01:16:41] <jepler> in realtime or userspace?
[01:16:52] <cradek> well there are bogons in the code
[01:16:59] <jepler> I got that impression
[01:17:04] <cradek> in task, so userspace
[01:17:15] <cradek> but he says it nukes the machine
[01:17:23] <cradek> probably the kernel stuff freaks when task bombs
[01:17:38] <jmkasunich> keep in mind that task accesses the same shmem block that emcmot does
[01:18:00] <jmkasunich> I suppose task could corrupt the shmem somehow, and send emcmot on a tear thru kernel space
[01:18:18] <cradek> yeah, maybe
[01:18:39] <jepler> good luck findng it
[01:18:43] <jmkasunich> lotta speculation, we (especially pete) have been fighting this on for four days
[01:18:51] <cradek> well, I maybe found it
[01:19:03] <cradek> but I have to go for a while before the grocery store closes
[01:19:08] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:19:12] <jepler> drive fast
[01:19:17] <jepler> s/fast/responsibly/
[01:19:18] <cradek> jmkasunich: I suggest fixing emccanon to use strncpy
[01:19:50] <jmkasunich> in the middle of something else right now, but I'll take a look in a bit
[01:19:59] <cradek> jmkasunich: and initially terminate that buffer
[01:20:04] <cradek> ok, bbl
[01:36:27] <jmkasunich> hi pete
[01:36:31] <SWP_Away> interesting - the call to GET_PARAMETER_FILE_NAME in Interp::init doesn't use LINELEN-1, it uses LINELEN as the length
[01:36:40] <SWP_Away> ...EXTERNAL...
[01:36:42] <SWP_Away> hi
[01:37:42] <petev> hi john
[01:39:44] <jmkasunich> cradek found some suspicious stuff in rs274ngc_pre and related places
[01:39:52] <petev> hmm
[01:39:58] <petev> what did he find?
[01:40:06] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos_
[01:40:27] <jmkasunich> strlen called on a possibly interminated string
[01:40:34] <petev> not good
[01:40:38] <petev> that's a good find
[01:40:40] <jmkasunich> I've been working on something else, not sure exactly where it is
[01:40:48] <SWPadnos_> the strlen should be OK, and just using strncpy isn't valid in this function
[01:40:58] <jmkasunich> he went away for a bit
[01:41:01] <petev> this is the file with the code that was causing the crash
[01:41:07] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:41:12] <SWPadnos_> emccanon.cc
[01:41:32] <jmkasunich> see, I told you I wasn't keeping up with him
[01:41:58] <SWPadnos_> the strlen should be OK, since the file name should be initialized.
[01:42:27] <SWPadnos_> even if it isn't, strlen would just search a ways until it finds a \0
[01:42:30] <jmkasunich> I guess cradek was afraid it might not be
[01:42:48] <SWPadnos_> so the length will appear to be very long, so the name doesn't get copies
[01:42:51] <SWPadnos_> copied
[01:43:02] <petev> yeah, but search too far and seg fault
[01:43:14] <petev> still doesn't explain the kernel corruption though
[01:43:23] <SWPadnos_> the reason that's there instead of strncpy is that the function needs to deal with shorter buffers that can't hold the full file name
[01:43:27] <jmkasunich> if the name doesn't get copied, what happens? does it continue anyway, using a name that isn't /0 terminated?
[01:43:31] <SWPadnos_> in those cases, it returns a null string
[01:43:44] <SWPadnos_> it explicitly sets string[0] to 0
[01:43:50] <jmkasunich> ok
[01:44:14] <SWPadnos_> so the strlen is needed, to see if the name will fit in the caller's buffer (the caller being Interp::Synch, in this case)
[01:44:17] <petev> was the original call GET_PAREMETER_FILE_NAME or something like that
[01:44:41] <petev> I think I saw one case when I was running gdb where the file name was null
[01:44:49] <SWPadnos_> emccanon.cc, line 1434
[01:44:53] <petev> usually it was filled in with something
[01:45:08] <petev> no, I was in rs247ngc_pre
[01:45:09] <SWPadnos_> null filename means that strlen doesn't overrun the buffer though
[01:45:42] <SWPadnos_> GET_EXTERNAL_PARAMETER_FILE_NAME will return a [0] in the first char array location if the name won't fit
[01:46:23] <SWPadnos_> do you know the default stack size for a user app?
[01:46:33] <petev> try ulimit -a
[01:46:38] <SWPadnos_> thanks
[01:46:53] <petev> set to 8192K on my box
[01:47:08] <SWPadnos_> yep - same here. I guess it's not a stack problem ;)
[01:47:55] <petev> my pipe size looks tiny
[01:48:11] <petev> does emc use any pipes to the GUIs and interface shells?
[01:50:10] <jmkasunich> dunno
[01:50:44] <SWPadnos_> there are a lot of sigpipe matches in the source
[01:51:21] <SWPadnos_> but they're in the tcp code (and hal/classicladder/socket_server.c)
[01:51:40] <SWPadnos_> though that's a comment about "Broken pipe" exceptions
[02:00:58] <jtr> jtr is now known as jtr_AWAY
[02:01:08] <jtr_AWAY> night all
[02:01:17] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[02:01:27] <SWPadnos_> see ya
[02:06:28] <skunkworks> hello again
[02:07:08] <cradek> I'm back
[02:07:24] <cradek> that buffer may not be initialized
[02:08:28] <skunkworks> I got the emc2 installed and running finally - thanks everyone. I hooked up to the gantry to play around with it. The default emc.ini seemed to run the machine after setting input scales. I have a few questions though
[02:09:09] <SWPadnos_> it should be full of 0s
[02:09:18] <cradek> SWPadnos_: why?
[02:10:06] <cradek> oh, does C do that if it's global?
[02:10:11] <cradek> there's some rule about that isn't there
[02:10:14] <SWPadnos_> the hope that memory is zeroed on allocation, and the fact that the ini file name should have been copied in there already
[02:10:19] <petev> cradek, you can attach gdb to the milltask process after you start EMC and check things
[02:10:38] <cradek> it doesn't crash on my machine!
[02:10:55] <SWPadnos_> petev - what is the full path to your ini file?
[02:11:22] <SWPadnos_> I'll bet that it's less than 255 chars
[02:11:23] <petev> I know, but you could look at vars to confirm suspicions
[02:11:24] <cradek> SWPadnos_: jmk was looking for a race condition
[02:11:40] <petev> swp: /home/petev/emc2/configs/emc.ini
[02:11:41] <cradek> SWPadnos_: if sync() is called before init(), it might bomb
[02:11:44] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich was idly speculating about a race condition
[02:11:47] <jmkasunich> big difference
[02:12:04] <cradek> well I have no idea under what circumstances sync is called
[02:12:05] <petev> yeah, when I attached gdb with breakpoints I couldnt get it to fail
[02:12:15] <petev> I think that's what started the race idea
[02:12:19] <SWPadnos_> true, but init has to be called early on, and synch does nothing if the filename returned is null
[02:12:25] <SWPadnos_> (null string, that is)
[02:12:39] <cradek> you're not getting what I'm saying
[02:13:09] <cradek> GET_EXTERNAL_PARAMETER_FILE_NAME (inside sync) can crash if init hasn't been called
[02:13:29] <cradek> I guess I don't know - when does this crash happen?
[02:13:36] <SWPadnos_> it can segfault, but that would happen very early on, not after loading a file, or on exit
[02:13:44] <jmkasunich> put a "if (string is fsked) { printf ("string is fscked\n" ) } in there and try it
[02:13:55] <cradek> oh, this happens on exit?
[02:13:59] <SWPadnos_> well - it's the strlen call that would bomb
[02:14:12] <cradek> right
[02:14:15] <SWPadnos_> petev can answer that better than I can
[02:14:18] <petev> cradek:I see the crash on shutdown for the most part, but not sure when the real damage was done
[02:14:21] <SWPadnos_> (when it happens)
[02:14:23] <cradek> * cradek came into this late
[02:14:51] <cradek> so with the debugger attached it never crashes?
[02:14:57] <petev> I can get a crash by loading 3d_chips, then exiting
[02:15:07] <petev> using axis seems to help, as does loading a file
[02:15:20] <cradek> what happens if you set your limits to allow a core dump?
[02:15:29] <petev> when running with gdb attached, I noticed interp::synch gets called on a file load
[02:15:34] <SWPadnos_> interestingly, when stepping through GET_EXTERNAL....., gdb ended up losing its place (cannot get bounds of current function)
[02:15:41] <cradek> all you need is a backtrace here... sig11s are easy to find
[02:15:41] <petev> I tried the core limit, but had no success
[02:15:48] <cradek> hmm
[02:15:53] <petev> it would be nice if I could get a core
[02:16:19] <cradek> SWPadnos_: maybe that file is compiled without debugging?
[02:16:20] <petev> the kernel seems to get messed up, but it could also be the ulimit stuff not getting to the right process
[02:16:41] <petev> I tried to fix the limits globally in /etc/security, but it didn't work
[02:16:47] <cradek> that should be propogated to children, so setting it in the shell where you start emc should do it
[02:16:58] <cradek> of course you need to be careful if you use sudo or something
[02:17:08] <petev> ok, then it must be the kernel not able to write the core
[02:17:09] <jmkasunich> was just gonna ask that
[02:17:17] <SWPadnos_> no - it seemed to have a good list of all the source files (I didn't even point it to the main source file)
[02:17:22] <petev> yes, have to use sudo
[02:17:25] <jmkasunich> you are running as sudo, but are you setting limits as user?
[02:17:30] <cradek> no, don't use sudo
[02:17:34] <cradek> su -
[02:17:37] <cradek> then set your limits
[02:17:38] <cradek> then run emc
[02:17:42] <jmkasunich> the kernel might prevent a user from getting a dump from a root process
[02:17:45] <petev> correct, that's why I tried to set them globally
[02:17:48] <Jymmm> when using an endmill and you want a nice surface (not edge) finish, which is better (if it matters) climb or conventional?
[02:17:55] <petev> I'll try again with su
[02:18:03] <cradek> you set ulimit -c, right?
[02:18:07] <petev> yes
[02:18:14] <skunkworks> this is emc2 - the max velosity for each axis does not work in the manual jog - it seems to take the max velocity in Trajectory planner section. so my z which has a max velocity of about 25 ipm in jog want to run 100 ipm. Known problem
[02:18:38] <cradek> skunkworks: yuck
[02:19:08] <jmkasunich> huh?
[02:19:17] <skunkworks> I ment - known problem?
[02:19:24] <jmkasunich> nope
[02:20:09] <jmkasunich> jeez, another bug to look at
[02:20:40] <SWPadnos_> could be related to dave-e's problem - they're both about speed
[02:20:50] <jmkasunich> dave-e
[02:20:59] <jmkasunich> dave-e's prob is in auto mode
[02:21:07] <SWPadnos_> true
[02:21:13] <SWPadnos_> and his run slower
[02:21:21] <SWPadnos_> but there's symmetry here ;)
[02:21:22] <jmkasunich> jogging in emc2 uses a completely different (and much simpler) planner
[02:21:44] <jmkasunich> I find it hard to believe (but not impossible) that it isn't obeying its limits
[02:21:53] <cradek> I wonder if my fix for max vel with offsets in place made it into emc2
[02:21:59] <skunkworks> It could be me - does it make sence what I said? when I select the z axis and the feed slider to jog it goes to 100 ipm just like x and y even though for that axis I have a max velocity set at 25 ipm for the z axis
[02:22:00] <jmkasunich> easier to believe that it isn't getting the right limits from the ini...
[02:22:14] <jmkasunich> wait-a-minnit
[02:22:20] <cradek> skunkworks: I think that means 100%
[02:22:32] <cradek> skunkworks: are you sure it tries to jog too fast?
[02:22:33] <jmkasunich> does the axis itself move at 100ipm? or just the slider say 100ipm?
[02:23:18] <skunkworks> Yes it tries to go that fast because I set it at anything above 25 I get a following error
[02:23:56] <jmkasunich> is this steppers, servos, or what?
[02:24:03] <skunkworks> no it isn't percent - I can change the max velocity in the trojectory planner and it changes the scale
[02:24:11] <skunkworks> steppers
[02:25:00] <jmkasunich> ok, so the stepgen is getting the right limit (not surprising, halcmd pulls it from the ini file and sets a parameter), so it prevents the axis from actually exceeding 25, hence the following error
[02:25:27] <jmkasunich> but the planner gets its limit thru NML, iniaxis.cc, usrmotintf, and lord knows what else
[02:25:33] <jmkasunich> must not be getting the right value
[02:26:03] <jmkasunich> skunkworks: are you willing to file a bug report? I'm in the middle of other stuff, but I should look into what you are seeing
[02:26:54] <skunkworks> also on a side note - why when I jog any of the axiss at the end of the move the lead screw reverses a degrees
[02:27:02] <jmkasunich> the report will remind me, and keep the facts where I won't forget them
[02:27:48] <jmkasunich> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=add&group_id=6744&atid=106744 and read the instructions
[02:27:55] <jmkasunich> please attach your ini file
[02:28:43] <skunkworks> Can do - I thought I put the ini file on a disk but it must not have coppied. I will go back to the shop tomorrow
[02:31:16] <skunkworks> boy - my keyboarding skills suck tonight - I ment - why when I jog any of the axiss at the end of the move the lead screw reverses a few degrees
[02:31:40] <jmkasunich> do you have backlash enabled?
[02:32:21] <jmkasunich> are you jogging at max speed?
[02:32:47] <skunkworks> I looked at the ini and didn't see any backlash values in each axis - remember I am using the default emc.ini file - all I changed was the scale and accel and max velocitys
[02:33:14] <jmkasunich> ok, then it isn't backlash
[02:33:24] <jmkasunich> were you jogging at max speed?
[02:33:40] <skunkworks> i noticed it at the max speed - don't know if I saw it at any slower speeds - I will check tomorrow
[02:33:52] <jmkasunich> try at about 90% of max and see what happens
[02:34:12] <SWPadnos_> it's probably overshoot, then the PID correcting for it
[02:34:43] <jmkasunich> right, and that happens mostly when you are at the limit
[02:34:57] <skunkworks> sounds good - It seems to run the steppers much smooter although I am getting following errors at slower velositys
[02:35:17] <cradek> grr, I can't find that fix
[02:36:13] <skunkworks> I don't know what to "tweek" yet to get higher speeds - period helped in the normal emc but it is implimented different in emc2
[02:37:21] <skunkworks> this is on amd 700mhz so that could be the problem right there. Just need to do a lot more reading.
[02:37:50] <skunkworks> great work btw. very nice.
[02:37:56] <cradek> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc/src/emcnml/initraj.cc?rev=1.7&sortby=date&view=log
[02:38:08] <cradek> maybe related?
[02:42:19] <cradek> aha
[02:42:23] <cradek> I found this fix:
[02:42:28] <cradek> Fixes wrong max velocity when G54 offsets are in effect
[02:42:33] <cradek> I guess I didn't put it in HEAD
[02:48:43] <CIA-5> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/emc/ (20 files in 6 dirs):
[02:48:43] <CIA-5> Removed the last remains of the old logging code. It has been disabled for
[02:48:43] <CIA-5> about a year, but much of it was still getting compiled, the data areas were
[02:48:43] <CIA-5> still allocated in shmem, and some user space code was still checking the shmem
[03:05:40] <petev> cradek: JMK told me that there is a known performance issue with the RTAI patches and shared video mem
[03:06:00] <cradek> oh, you have that?
[03:06:05] <petev> my board is useing shared vide mem, so that may be the drawing issue with the latest axis
[03:06:14] <cradek> yeah, hard to say
[03:06:16] <petev> yes, buffer set to 32MB now
[03:06:31] <cradek> paul was very wary of that. I don't know if it was experience or superstition or a combination.
[03:06:33] <jmkasunich> usually leading to bad latency for the RT side, dunno what effect, if any on the user side
[03:06:43] <petev> oh
[03:06:46] <jmkasunich> probably both
[03:06:52] <cradek> yeah probably a good dose of both
[03:07:08] <cradek> petev: can you throw a real video card in there? It'll surely work better
[03:07:27] <petev> I can probably dig one up for testing
[03:07:45] <petev> I'm burning a memtest86 DVD right now, just to get that out of the way
[03:07:50] <jmkasunich> there is space? (I thought maybe it was a micro form-factor)
[03:08:00] <cradek> I've happily used matrox millenium II ca. 1997 with axis
[03:08:11] <jmkasunich> I like those
[03:08:26] <jmkasunich> all my boxes before this one used Matrox's
[03:08:36] <jmkasunich> (from the dumpster no less ;-)
[03:09:02] <cradek> agreed - a great old card
[03:09:11] <petev> it has a PCI slot, but hopefully I can find an old card
[03:09:22] <petev> I have a lot of AGP, but not sure about PCI
[03:09:27] <jmkasunich> I can send you a matrox or 3
[03:09:47] <petev> sure, that would be great for testing
[03:09:54] <petev> see if it is related
[03:10:01] <jmkasunich> email me your snail mail addy
[03:10:04] <petev> ok
[03:10:12] <jmkasunich> probably won't get it out until friday...
[03:11:27] <petev> no problem
[03:11:39] <cradek> hey, send me some stuff too
[03:11:43] <cradek> it's the holiday season
[03:12:07] <jmkasunich> what obsolete computer stuff to you need?
[03:12:23] <cradek> welllll
[03:12:24] <jmkasunich> 16M simms?
[03:12:28] <petev> hey, I think I have some old EISA cards around here
[03:12:36] <jmkasunich> actually I think I threw the 16M ones away
[03:12:43] <cradek> unpunched paper tape?
[03:12:52] <jmkasunich> sorry, not that obsolete
[03:13:09] <cradek> that's ok, I have a box full somewhere
[03:13:51] <petev> ok, just made a memtest86 dvd, I'll run it tonight and let you know the results
[03:14:00] <jmkasunich> I have things like 32 and 64M simms (EDO), 128M sdrams, 4G hard disks....
[03:14:30] <petev> man john, don't you have a nearby surplus store to dump that stuff at?
[03:14:44] <jmkasunich> stores won't pay for it
[03:14:49] <petev> I got rid of all my old junk, including old SPARC stations
[03:14:58] <jmkasunich> I don't have huge volumnes of it
[03:15:00] <petev> I just give it to them, get it out of my way
[03:15:06] <petev> take a tax write off
[03:17:20] <skunkworks> hey - I am still running a k&t millwakeematic with the original late 60s controller. Germanium transisters - yeck. I win.
[03:18:05] <skunkworks> Although it died last month and haven't fixed it yet. Kinda why I am playing with emc ;)
[03:19:00] <skunkworks> no integrated circuits - at all. If we would have gotten the previous model it would have been tubes.
[04:03:10] <skunkworks> hey did everyone go to a different irc channel to talk about me? No I am not paranoid ;)
[04:38:53] <CIA-5> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (12 files in 10 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Thu Nov 24 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[05:56:39] <K`zan> I think the driver is done, now to make up PCBs for it and get to work on the mechanics!
[06:47:25] <alex_joni> morning
[06:47:30] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: still up?
[06:47:32] <jmkasunich> night
[06:47:38] <alex_joni> yeah..figured :D
[06:47:44] <alex_joni> go to bed
[06:47:58] <alex_joni> nice commits btw
[06:49:50] <jmkasunich> cleaning the spiderwebs out of the corners
[06:50:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni appreciates it
[07:08:46] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[07:09:00] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWP_Away
[07:45:04] <anonimasu> hey
[07:45:49] <alex_joni> 'lo
[07:47:06] <anonimasu> I am at dreamhaack
[07:47:10] <anonimasu> err dreamhack
[07:51:19] <alex_joni> what's that?
[07:51:57] <anonimasu> the worlds largest lan part
[07:51:59] <anonimasu> www.dreamhack.org
[07:52:01] <anonimasu> :)
[07:52:06] <anonimasu> 6000 people attending last year
[08:12:05] <alex_joni> holy sh*t
[08:12:10] <alex_joni> how many this year?
[08:13:56] <ValarQ> anonimasu: any fun wargames?
[08:16:22] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I dont think so
[08:16:22] <anonimasu> yet
[08:18:10] <ValarQ> :(
[08:18:25] <alex_joni> how much does it cost?
[08:18:28] <alex_joni> or is it free?
[08:19:21] <anonimasu> about 600 sek
[08:19:37] <alex_joni> hmm.. not that much (per day?)
[08:19:55] <anonimasu> no
[08:19:57] <anonimasu> for the whole event
[08:20:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is setting up ipv6
[08:20:14] <alex_joni> how many days?
[08:23:55] <anonimasu> 4
[08:24:40] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder where I can find a debian package for xfce
[08:28:25] <anonimasu> ValarQ: i dont think they will have any wargames at all
[08:29:56] <anonimasu> :(
[08:30:54] <ValarQ> anonimasu: ok, any other interesting competitions?
[08:31:26] <alex_joni> anonimasu: apt-get install xfce
[08:31:31] <alex_joni> worked for me
[08:31:33] <alex_joni> iirc
[08:31:49] <ValarQ> could be xfce4
[08:31:51] <anonimasu> hm,
[08:31:58] <anonimasu> yesh
[08:43:55] <anonimasu> :)
[08:44:05] <alex_joni> works?
[08:49:46] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:49:48] <anonimasu> very very nice
[08:51:02] <alex_joni> simple
[08:51:04] <alex_joni> and clean
[08:52:42] <anonimasu> yea
[08:52:45] <anonimasu> like osx something
[08:53:09] <anonimasu> I just wish I could get my driver to allow my tft to play movies and stuff
[11:41:31] <anonimasu> hm
[11:43:01] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[11:43:16] <Jacky^> mornin
[11:45:12] <alex_joni> not true
[11:45:19] <alex_joni> how's your notpron?
[11:47:39] <Jacky^> alex_joni: I leave it, which level you are?
[11:49:17] <alex_joni> 63
[11:49:28] <alex_joni> but I haven't played in the last 2 days
[11:49:57] <Jacky^> good
[12:28:15] <chinamill> Does anyone know where I can get latest iso of puppy?
[12:34:37] <alex_joni> chinamill: on my mirror, but I heard there are some problems with it
[12:34:45] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/
[12:37:44] <chinamill> Very siriuos problems?
[12:38:14] <chinamill> I'm about to try the 28 MB version
[12:41:07] <alex_joni> chinamill: afaik, some reported it doesn't boot
[14:07:03] <wb9mjn> Test...
[14:08:35] <thalx> Ack...
[14:09:15] <wb9mjn> Hi...
[14:10:04] <wb9mjn> When I logged on I saw a blurb about messages being blocked ... Was just testing...apparently private messages from unregistered users are blocked..
[14:10:12] <wb9mjn> Now that I read the whole message...hi...
[14:11:20] <wb9mjn> Looking for a safe way to connect my MotenC-100 to the ac motor drive...kinda needs some kinda of analog opto-isolator...
[14:12:28] <wb9mjn> Hi roltek...
[14:14:34] <anonimasu> wb9mjn: why would you need to islolate it from the drive?
[14:14:48] <anonimasu> wb9mjn: the analog input shoudnt be of any load at all
[14:15:22] <wb9mjn> The drive is directly connected to AC power, with no isolation....
[14:15:54] <wb9mjn> Any surge might go right into the MotenC-100 and do some damage...just being cautious...
[14:16:20] <wb9mjn> Its a 90 V DC SCR motor drive...
[14:16:41] <wb9mjn> That rectifies the live AC to get the 90 V DC for the motor....
[14:21:33] <wb9mjn> The other MotenC-100 outputs go to the servo amps, which are not isolated either, but are on a 48 volt PS, which a huge cap...So any AC line surge
[14:21:41] <wb9mjn> is not going to do too much ....
[14:25:49] <anonimasu> ok
[14:29:00] <wb9mjn> I also affraid of transients generated by spindle stalls.......
[14:32:21] <wb9mjn> Anyway....finally got a table for my machine...Have it out at an EDM shop...They are going to burn clearance bores for cap screw caps...Then I ll be able
[14:32:36] <wb9mjn> to bolt it down to the motion table....and cut metal! ...
[14:33:30] <anonimasu> nice
[14:33:42] <wb9mjn> Its a hardened steel table with DIN 508 slots....It has 12 mm by 1.5 pitch screw holes in the corners...
[14:34:05] <wb9mjn> I can't come up from below with bolts, so need the counter bores done...
[14:34:35] <wb9mjn> Was lucky to find a small EDM shop...that would do this small job...
[14:35:13] <wb9mjn> Need to get some DIN 508 T nuts, etc still....Found a place in Wisconsin that makes all that stuff....
[14:36:06] <wb9mjn> I imagine I will need to retune the PID s with the added weight., about 30 lbs...
[14:36:32] <wb9mjn> The alternative was something like a 6 inch vice, but that was too much weight....about 70 lbs...
[14:37:27] <wb9mjn> Had given up for a while trying to find a table...then one day something just told me to check ebay...and there it was, with about 1/2 hour till the
[14:37:31] <wb9mjn> auction end....
[14:38:26] <wb9mjn> Got the usual vendor crap, though....They claimed it was all english dimensions, apparently to get the bidding higher....Which worked...but, did finally
[14:38:33] <wb9mjn> get the table....
[14:39:14] <wb9mjn> If they would have been honest that it was all metric...I would have gotten it allot cheaper, I m sure...
[14:39:58] <wb9mjn> Took a few tries to figure out the threading in the holes...As the 12 mm by 1.5 pitch is so close to many other threads....
[14:40:16] <wb9mjn> And its not a common metric thread ....
[14:42:11] <wb9mjn> Let alone available all over...found a bunch of bolts at the local NAPA, luckily....
[14:43:56] <wb9mjn> Anyway....got diahrea of the keyboard here.....
[15:09:25] <Jacky^> This page has been financed by thousand of Italian citizens to find out whether
[15:09:26] <Jacky^> there is another State in some part of the world in wich 23 members of Parliament have been convicted of variety of crimes and yet are allowed to sit in Parliament and represent their citizens.
[15:09:30] <Jacky^> lol
[15:09:37] <Jacky^> If a Country like this exist, we Italians would like to propose a 'twinning'.
[15:09:43] <Jacky^> If there is no such State or Country we ask the world to help us understand why
[15:09:43] <Jacky^> the 23 Italian parliamentarians, already convicted of crimes by the Italian Judicial System, and whose crimes are recorded in my blog www.beppegrillo.it, sit in the Italian and European Parliaments.
[15:09:47] <Jacky^> ghghghg :/
[15:43:35] <Jymmm> Gobble Gobble
[15:43:41] <Jacky^> hi
[15:43:43] <Jacky^> ?
[15:43:50] <SWP_Away> gobble
[15:44:05] <Jacky^> ciao :P
[15:44:34] <Jymmm> Jacky^ : Thanksgiving, US Holiday
[15:44:40] <SWP_Away> It's Thanksgiving - a formerly religious (though misguided) holiday, which now is an attempt to gain as much weight as possible
[15:44:46] <SWP_Away> at one meal
[15:45:16] <SWP_Away> in preparation for Christmas, which is the second attempt, then New Years Resolutions, where you try to erase your past foolish performance
[15:45:19] <Jacky^> nice, first time I heard
[15:45:43] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ looking at wikipedia..
[15:47:00] <Jacky^> uhm ok No page with that title exists. yet ..
[15:47:14] <SWP_Away> ThanksGiving? -weird
[15:47:57] <Jacky^> yes :)
[15:48:02] <Jacky^> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving
[15:52:02] <Jymmm> * Jymmm does a /ForceNickChange SWP_Away Eb
[15:52:12] <SWP_Away> Eb?
[15:52:18] <SWP_Away> Who's Eb?
[15:52:26] <Jymmm> Ebanieser Scrooge
[15:52:29] <SWP_Away> (other than Jed's brother or cousin or something)
[15:52:46] <Jacky^> and in 1991 nov 24 Freddy mercury died..
[15:52:51] <Jacky^> great voice :D
[15:52:56] <SWP_Away> well - you could at least spell my name right - Ebenezer Scrooge!
[15:53:09] <SWP_Away> yeah - it was a tragic loss
[15:53:10] <Jymmm> thus I said 'Eb'
[15:53:22] <SWP_Away> yo - I B eb, Down!
[15:58:59] <Jymmm> So Eb, you gonna be gorging yourself today?
[15:59:01] <Jacky^> after an artist die we need to wait 75 years before to get his rights (c) free
[15:59:08] <SWP_Away> yeah, baby!
[15:59:09] <Jacky^> is this the law ?
[15:59:22] <Jymmm> Jacky^: Unless his family keeps it going
[15:59:23] <SWP_Away> US copyright law is pretty insane
[16:00:43] <Jymmm> SWP_Away: Better than places that dont have any at all.
[16:00:47] <Jacky^> Jymmm: that is what will happen.. probably
[16:01:59] <SWP_Away> somewhat
[16:05:30] <Jacky^> time ago aI read a funny article
[16:06:09] <jepler> GPS In Tcl/Tk 8.3.4 I've discovered that deleting large amounts of text is very slow (> 30 seconds). When dealing with > 3k lines with many tags it can take quite a while. A solution that I came upon was to delete text in 40 line increments, followed by a final delete 1.0 end. I haven't been able to discover what in the Text widget's code is causing this problem, but I wanted to point this out just in case anyone else runs into it. </http://wiki.
[16:06:35] <Jacky^> someone write an email to an ISP sayng that a lot of website was published a (c) book
[16:06:40] <jepler> I guess I'll try this and see if I can put back the line-numbers-in-grey feature in axis
[16:07:14] <Jacky^> the book was free and the isp has deleted all websites without think up
[16:07:16] <Jacky^> lol
[16:07:50] <Jacky^> that the 'terror strategy' :/
[16:08:22] <jepler> oh yeah, that really does work. from 10 seconds to 23ms to delete 10000 lines.
[16:08:25] <jepler> yay
[16:09:38] <SWP_Away> hm - what format is the text internally (when there's color info and/or other formatting)?
[16:10:15] <Jymmm> jepler 16, 32, 64 dynamic sized blocks maybe?
[16:11:00] <Jacky^> Jymmm: how much the price for a CD music disc there ?
[16:11:04] <SWP_Away> actually - one thing that would be nice for AXIS would be a button that lets you go back to tracking the current line
[16:11:18] <jepler> SWP_Away: click on the background of the preview area
[16:11:24] <SWP_Away> ah - OK
[16:11:38] <jepler> I don't know how Tk stores the text widget internally, but I thought it was some clever structure...
[16:11:47] <SWP_Away> maybe too clever
[16:12:12] <SWP_Away> how does axis communicate with emc? is it via emcsh?
[16:12:58] <jepler> no. AXIS includes a module called "emc"
[16:13:15] <SWP_Away> OK - is ther eNML code in there?
[16:13:17] <Jacky^> Jymmm: here's around $ 30
[16:13:19] <jepler> yeah
[16:13:42] <Jymmm> Jacky^ $10-$15 USD
[16:13:49] <SWP_Away> but that's the only place where NML is used - all other parts use python functions to access the info?
[16:13:54] <Jacky^> the half ..
[16:13:56] <jepler> SWP_Away: Here's the implementation of the 'emc' module: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/extensions/emcmodule.cc?rev=1.12;content-type=text%2Fx-cvsweb-markup
[16:14:25] <SWP_Away> I should download it onto this machine
[16:14:39] <SWP_Away> I just wish I could compile without an RT kernel :(
[16:14:55] <jepler> SWP_Away: use emc1 in simulator mode
[16:14:58] <jepler> that's what I do
[16:15:08] <SWP_Away> yeah - I should try that
[16:15:12] <jepler> here's a simple Python program that presents a kind of MDI prompt: http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/axis/scripts/mdi.py?rev=1.2
[16:16:56] <SWP_Away> one day, I'll actually read some of that book... (Programming Python)
[16:17:30] <chinamill> Hello. Can I use my quite typical emc1 ini (bridgeportIO) with emc2?
[16:17:54] <jepler> the online tutorial isn't bad .. http://docs.python.org/tut/
[16:17:57] <SWP_Away> ok - so you've exoprted the satatus and command buffers as structs (closer to C classes actually)
[16:18:04] <SWP_Away> C++, that is
[16:18:50] <jepler> yeah, it's fairly similar.
[16:20:08] <SWP_Away> well - time to make the potatoes -see you guys later
[16:21:34] <jepler> see you
[16:22:07] <SWP_Away> one more quick thing before I actually leave :)
[16:22:13] <jepler> fire away
[16:22:15] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands SWP_Away the garlic
[16:22:26] <SWP_Away> with emc1, do I just change the PLAT to sim or something?
[16:22:36] <SWP_Away> thanks - too many kids for that though :(
[16:22:49] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/index.cgi-files/sandbox/pysim.ini
[16:22:51] <SWP_Away> I have some great marinated garlic that I'd love to put in there
[16:22:53] <jepler> this is the ini file I use for testing axis
[16:23:22] <SWP_Away> it's more a matter of actual compilation - I have no RT extensions on this machine
[16:23:54] <jepler> I build the cradek_stable branch of EMC1 with PLAT=linux_2_4_22 and use that ini file
[16:24:12] <jepler> I don't remember if there's any trick besides that
[16:24:40] <SWP_Away> ok - so you just don't bother doing the make PLAT=RT_LINUX or whatever?
[16:24:53] <SWP_Away> I thought that emc1 had a separate RT and user build
[16:25:13] <jepler> I guess it has only one when you're only running the simulator
[16:25:33] <SWP_Away> ok - that's the critical piece of information - thanks
[16:25:39] <SWP_Away> * SWP_Away is really leaving now
[17:07:59] <Jymmm> Can anyone recommend another oil besides boiled linseed for hand rubbing wood?
[17:15:08] <alex_joni> evening crowd
[17:15:28] <jepler> hi alex
[17:15:34] <alex_joni> hey jeff
[17:15:41] <jepler> what's new?
[17:15:46] <jepler> lots of changes in axis recently
[17:15:47] <alex_joni> not much.. :)
[17:15:52] <alex_joni> yeah.. I've heard
[17:15:59] <jepler> oh yeah?
[17:16:06] <alex_joni> waiting for you guys to slow down before I try it :D
[17:16:35] <jepler> but we need brave people like you to be our guinea pigs
[17:16:52] <alex_joni> I know.. :)
[17:18:56] <les_w> jymmm: tung
[17:19:00] <les_w> oil
[17:34:01] <Jacky^> les gobble
[17:34:04] <Jacky^> :)
[17:36:10] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ just learn what Thankgiving is
[17:37:39] <Jacky^> and looking for a country to to propose a 'twinning'..
[17:37:46] <Jacky^> but cant find it !
[17:37:55] <Jacky^> damnit :D
[17:39:34] <Jacky^> well, paused on shopping cnc parts too
[17:40:05] <Jacky^> I get a christmas gift from my ex wife too ..
[17:40:18] <Jacky^> E.1250 tax :/
[17:40:35] <Jacky^> I will wait the next mounth :(��
[17:42:05] <Jacky^> but i'm always happy! thats is important ;)
[17:42:44] <Jacky^> les_w: got your new spindle wired ?
[17:44:01] <les_w> not yet...long holiday here...and I have to wait for ordered parts
[17:44:10] <les_w> waiting for wire
[17:44:21] <Jacky^> good.. right
[17:44:35] <Jacky^> les_w: i want ask you a great pleasure
[17:44:41] <Jacky^> if is possible
[17:44:42] <les_w> and some round linear bearing for a new floating dust shield
[17:44:56] <les_w> ok
[17:45:12] <Jacky^> may you already have the file project of my new machine
[17:45:29] <Jacky^> I would like to study it to learn much more
[17:45:35] <les_w> not sure...what is the link?
[17:45:54] <les_w> ohhh....the motioneering file?
[17:46:00] <Jacky^> I think you use the apps from danaher
[17:46:04] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[17:46:05] <les_w> yeah
[17:46:15] <les_w> let me see where that file is kept
[17:46:22] <Jacky^> it would be important for me to learn more about it
[17:46:30] <Jacky^> np
[17:46:45] <Jacky^> i give you my email adress: gcsoftware@libero.it
[17:47:14] <Jacky^> when youve time, if can send it , i will appreciate your help :)
[17:47:43] <Jacky^> so, that I can look for some alternative motor too ..
[17:47:53] <Jacky^> may cheaper
[17:48:02] <Jacky^> I hope.. :(
[17:49:13] <Jacky^> at this point i cant go on before january 2006 :/
[17:49:42] <Jacky^> damn money !
[17:50:10] <Jacky^> I could ask to my bank, but i dont like to have debits
[17:50:20] <Jacky^> thats why im waiting
[17:51:07] <Jacky^> not sure if it is a good thing ..
[17:51:37] <Jacky^> I dont want to have debits, when all peoples are living with only debits ghghg
[17:51:51] <Jacky^> am I crazy ?
[17:51:59] <Jacky^> O_O
[17:52:16] <les_w> same for me jacky. I owe no money at all.
[17:52:43] <les_w> I cannot seem to get your project in file form
[17:52:44] <les_w> but
[17:52:45] <Jacky^> well, but why all capitalist here around are goimg on with debits ?
[17:52:57] <Jacky^> I would like to understand why
[17:53:00] <Jacky^> :(
[17:53:05] <les_w> if you will open up motioneering we can just plug the numbers in
[17:53:30] <Jacky^> ok
[17:53:52] <Jacky^> if youll find it later, please remember my mail
[17:53:59] <les_w> most people here have great debt. I am an ecxeption
[17:54:13] <les_w> exception
[17:54:13] <Jacky^> les_w: were an exception
[17:54:16] <anonimasu> hello
[17:54:28] <les_w> hi
[17:54:32] <Jacky^> hey anonimasu
[17:56:43] <Jacky^> I do not make hard work to admit that I have fear
[17:56:55] <Jacky^> for what is happening here around ..
[17:57:00] <les_w> jacky, open motioneering now and start a new project. I'll tell you what numbers to put in
[17:57:02] <anonimasu> ?
[17:57:11] <anonimasu> les_w: what's up?
[17:57:14] <Jacky^> ok.. running vmware
[17:57:36] <Jymmm> les_w: Gobble gobble or Oink oink?
[17:57:41] <Jacky^> les_w: ready
[17:57:45] <les_w> just relaxing...uh oink
[17:57:51] <anonimasu> :)
[17:58:04] <les_w> ok let me start it also
[17:58:06] <Jymmm> les_w ditto, but we cooked everything yesterday.
[17:58:22] <Jacky^> :)
[17:58:57] <les_w> ok pick leadsrew mechanism
[17:59:16] <Jacky^> ok
[17:59:52] <les_w> starting with couplers...click that
[18:00:07] <les_w> load coupling
[18:00:10] <Jacky^> yeah
[18:00:16] <Jacky^> i'm
[18:00:46] <les_w> we will leave that at zero
[18:00:53] <les_w> so click next
[18:01:14] <les_w> should go to screw parameters
[18:01:22] <Jacky^> right
[18:01:34] <les_w> this will be x
[18:01:51] <les_w> diameter enter 20 mm
[18:02:03] <les_w> lead enter 10 mm
[18:02:32] <les_w> length enter 2.6 meters (two 1.3 screws)
[18:02:45] <les_w> 0 nut preload
[18:02:57] <les_w> 90% effic.
[18:03:01] <les_w> ok?
[18:03:04] <Jacky^> ok
[18:03:13] <Jacky^> did it
[18:03:14] <les_w> click next
[18:03:33] <les_w> forces
[18:03:47] <les_w> thrust force 0
[18:04:13] <les_w> continuous force 150 N (that is your max cutting force)
[18:04:17] <les_w> ok?
[18:04:21] <Jacky^> ok
[18:04:28] <les_w> click next
[18:04:43] <Jacky^> ready
[18:04:47] <les_w> part/tooling weight
[18:05:01] <les_w> leave at zero
[18:05:04] <les_w> click next
[18:05:09] <Jacky^> ok
[18:05:26] <les_w> slide
[18:06:02] <les_w> weight: 50 kg
[18:06:18] <Jacky^> is that the gantry weight ?
[18:06:24] <les_w> yes
[18:06:26] <Jacky^> ok
[18:06:32] <les_w> elevation 0
[18:06:46] <les_w> % counterbalanced 0
[18:07:07] <les_w> gib force 0
[18:07:14] <les_w> speed at thrust force 0
[18:07:30] <les_w> friction .016
[18:07:43] <Jacky^> ok, thats default value
[18:07:44] <les_w> weight of carried axis 0
[18:07:57] <Jacky^> next ?
[18:08:12] <les_w> no this time exit...we are done with that
[18:08:16] <les_w> now
[18:08:54] <les_w> click motion profile...the box with the orange graph
[18:09:14] <Jacky^> it ask me for define a new one
[18:09:25] <Jacky^> ok
[18:09:59] <les_w> click triangular....first box on left
[18:10:33] <Jacky^> ok, did it
[18:10:54] <les_w> check maximum speed...enter 10 m/min
[18:10:59] <Jacky^> :)
[18:11:30] <les_w> heh...check accel rate...enter 0.5g
[18:11:30] <Jacky^> 10,00 m/min
[18:11:52] <les_w> then click plot
[18:12:30] <Jacky^> mmm
[18:12:31] <Jacky^> wait
[18:12:39] <Jacky^> it give me a yellow 'warning'
[18:12:41] <Jymmm> Interesteing... http://www.woodworkersjournal.com/ezine/archive/134/interview.cfm
[18:12:54] <Jacky^> cant' copy/paste from vmware :(
[18:13:08] <Jacky^> rmp seems to be the issue
[18:13:17] <Jacky^> 0 RPM
[18:13:37] <les_w> oh ok
[18:13:42] <les_w> I forgot that
[18:13:47] <les_w> let's see
[18:16:39] <Jacky^> Max. profilespeed (1000 RPM) exceeds that specified by the mechanism specs
[18:17:08] <Jacky^> I jumped something ..
[18:17:31] <Jacky^> Decrease profile speed or edit mechanism specs
[18:17:34] <les_w> yeah
[18:18:59] <les_w> go back to mechanism...slide
[18:19:35] <les_w> what is in speed maximum (traverse)
[18:20:19] <Jacky^> looking
[18:20:24] <les_w> k
[18:20:37] <Jacky^> is 0,0
[18:20:42] <les_w> ok.
[18:20:50] <les_w> put in a big number
[18:20:59] <les_w> like 1 m/s
[18:21:06] <Jacky^> ok
[18:21:39] <les_w> now it should work
[18:21:55] <Jacky^> ok, tryng ..
[18:22:05] <les_w> go back to motion profile
[18:22:16] <Jymmm> les_w got a Q for you when you get a sec.
[18:22:22] <les_w> ok
[18:22:24] <les_w> shoot
[18:23:23] <Jymmm> les_w: I picked up some Ipe (Ironwood) yesterday, carverd it and rubbed on some boiled linseed oil. Not bad at all, but is there something else I could use so it's not so dark?
[18:25:00] <Jymmm> preferably non-toxic if at all possible
[18:25:06] <les_w> yeah. Tung oil
[18:25:17] <Jymmm> Lighter color?
[18:25:24] <les_w> any oil will make ipe dark though
[18:25:32] <les_w> tung is lighter yes
[18:25:51] <Jymmm> oh, bummer. running Ipe under water is awefully purrrty
[18:26:31] <les_w> shellac and laquer will be lighter too
[18:26:58] <les_w> wipe oil off the wood with solvent before application
[18:27:21] <Jymmm> huh? apply oil, then wipe off with solvent?
[18:27:24] <les_w> ( the natural oil and waxes in ipe)
[18:27:29] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[18:27:38] <Jacky^> I got the same msg :(
[18:27:46] <les_w> argh
[18:27:53] <les_w> let me look
[18:28:01] <Jacky^> les_w: np, dot worry
[18:28:12] <Jacky^> if youve not time to spent now
[18:28:14] <les_w> something is missing
[18:28:18] <Jacky^> will see it later
[18:28:24] <les_w> yes I have time
[18:28:25] <les_w> np
[18:28:28] <Jacky^> ok
[18:29:26] <Jymmm> any particular solvent? (I have acetone, xylene, and charcoal lighter fluid)
[18:29:46] <Jymmm> and denatured alcohol
[18:30:13] <Jymmm> unscented lighter fluid btw
[18:30:15] <les_w> xylene would be best
[18:30:29] <les_w> any will work some
[18:31:46] <Jymmm> ok, so wipe down ipe after carving with solvent, let dry, then apply shellac or laquer?
[18:31:49] <les_w> lighter fluid (unscented) is just naptha with the toluenr and xylenes removed
[18:31:53] <les_w> yeah
[18:32:02] <les_w> try that for a lighter look
[18:32:27] <les_w> acrylic is ok too
[18:32:41] <Jymmm> ok, cool. what about spar varnish?
[18:32:50] <les_w> spar is dark
[18:32:54] <Jymmm> ah.
[18:33:00] <Jymmm> PU ?
[18:33:10] <les_w> medium to dark
[18:33:44] <Jymmm> ok, good to know.
[18:34:08] <Jymmm> Ipe is some purrty wood, I'm surprised it's not used more.
[18:34:47] <Jacky^> Jymmm: all good thing are not used more :(
[18:35:05] <Jacky^> things*
[18:35:12] <Jymmm> yeah
[18:36:01] <Jymmm> les_w so, hows things in your neck of the woods?
[18:36:49] <les_w> busy, but i'm taking off today
[18:37:13] <Jymmm> les_w: where to? Mustang Ranch?
[18:37:24] <les_w> jacky, I tried it with a fresh blank project
[18:37:28] <les_w> no problem
[18:37:34] <les_w> be sure to hit plot
[18:37:40] <Jacky^> ok, then i missed something
[18:37:45] <les_w> yeah
[18:37:46] <Jacky^> yes' im sure
[18:38:00] <Jacky^> now i'll repeat the steps
[18:38:08] <Jacky^> readind the chat ;)
[18:38:18] <Jacky^> its enough for now
[18:38:26] <les_w> ok
[18:38:32] <Jymmm> les_w: where to? Mustang Ranch?
[18:38:48] <les_w> later if you do not find it read back what you have entered in mechanism
[18:39:12] <Jacky^> les_w: thanks a lot i will thank you at the end of my project :)
[18:39:19] <les_w> yw
[18:39:25] <Jacky^> great
[18:39:35] <Jacky^> this app seem to me very nice
[18:39:42] <Jymmm> what app?
[18:39:49] <Jacky^> from danaher
[18:39:53] <les_w> yes...but all the numbers have to be in
[18:40:00] <Jacky^> right
[18:40:49] <les_w> later, when it works, you just size motor...it will then pick motors from their product line
[18:41:04] <Jacky^> yeah, its cool :)
[18:41:08] <les_w> you can look at the specs and pick any similar motor
[18:41:30] <les_w> takes care of inertia matching and all that
[18:41:46] <Jacky^> yeah..
[18:42:25] <les_w> do one mechanism for each axis
[18:42:45] <les_w> y and z will have shorter screws and less mass
[18:43:03] <Jacky^> les_w: yeah :)
[18:43:10] <Jacky^> Jymmm: http://www.danahermotion.com/Service_NA_Frame.asp?target=../../Software/Kollmorgen/Motioneering/Motioneering_App_Engine_page.htm
[18:43:17] <les_w> so motors can be smaller for those
[18:43:20] <les_w> saves money
[18:43:22] <Jymmm> Jacky^ Ah, ok.
[18:44:36] <Jacky^> les_w: yeah, there are a lot of things to learn ..
[18:44:46] <Jymmm> les_w make me a 5 axis cnc router with 150Watt laser attachemnt for under $5000
[18:45:11] <les_w> at least it takes care of all the screw, coupling and other moments of inertia
[18:45:18] <les_w> also does reduction
[18:45:27] <les_w> and you can mix units
[18:45:45] <Jacky^> Ive seen, is nice
[18:45:46] <Jymmm> les_w: must be able to accept full sheet, but fold up to fit in the trunk of a Yugo.
[18:45:57] <les_w> haha
[18:46:18] <Jymmm> =)
[18:46:35] <les_w> I have been doing cost per month and cost per mile of CPO cars vs new
[18:47:15] <Jymmm> and the results?
[18:47:38] <les_w> CPO can be a good thing I think. Car is like new and bumper to bumper warranty 4 years.
[18:47:45] <les_w> cost is half of new
[18:47:53] <Jacky^> wow
[18:48:11] <les_w> works out best if car is 2 years old and under 30,000 miles
[18:48:29] <Jymmm> yeah, I seriously doubt I'll ever buy another barnd new car again.
[18:48:55] <les_w> example: audi a6 2003 or 2004
[18:49:03] <les_w> new a6 is 48k
[18:49:25] <Jacky^> horror
[18:49:34] <les_w> 03 or 04 is 25k
[18:49:39] <les_w> take 04
[18:49:46] <les_w> 4 year warranty
[18:49:53] <Jymmm> and driving it off the lot it looses $4000 in value
[18:49:53] <les_w> two years left
[18:49:53] <Jacky^> its ok for a machine that can fly !
[18:50:03] <Jacky^> not for a car .. damn
[18:50:20] <les_w> two years to 100k miles added by CPO program
[18:50:29] <les_w> so 4 years just like a new car
[18:50:41] <les_w> but 25k instead of 48
[18:50:43] <Jymmm> les_w: Hey, did you say you used something to pretreat wood to help with the fuzzies?
[18:51:04] <Jymmm> les_w and hopefully past all the breakin stuff too.
[18:51:12] <les_w> yeah.
[18:51:27] <les_w> really a 2 yo car is just like new
[18:51:40] <les_w> especially german cars
[18:51:49] <Jymmm> I like me Expedition, but it's a gas hog
[18:51:58] <Jacky^> les_w: I agreed
[18:52:06] <les_w> expedition is similar to my truck
[18:52:14] <les_w> ford f 150 trition v8
[18:52:17] <Jymmm> but not 4800 lbs
[18:52:28] <Jacky^> les_w: how you seen cars from japan ?
[18:52:30] <les_w> My truck gets poor milage
[18:52:35] <les_w> but it's a truck
[18:52:39] <Jymmm> yeah
[18:52:43] <les_w> it is for hauling things
[18:53:10] <Jymmm> My firend bought the Honda truck, it's nice and he gets about 400 miles a tank full - and it's 4x4 too
[18:53:17] <les_w> The BMW gets great milage
[18:53:27] <les_w> but I am getting too old for race cars
[18:53:36] <Jacky^> hahaha
[18:53:38] <Jacky^> nahh
[18:53:43] <les_w> it's getting old too...but still looks and runs great
[18:53:48] <Jacky^> :)
[18:53:52] <les_w> I just need something bigger
[18:53:58] <Jacky^> haha
[18:54:05] <les_w> and comfortable
[18:54:06] <Jymmm> Sherman Tank?
[18:54:12] <Jacky^> lol
[18:54:21] <les_w> bmw is no more comfortable than any race car
[18:54:30] <Jymmm> Jag?
[18:54:33] <Jacky^> nah, no kidding abou tanks :/
[18:54:33] <les_w> "driving oriented" they call it
[18:55:00] <Jymmm> les_w fuck it, get yourself a 1400cc critch rocket
[18:55:05] <Jymmm> crotch
[18:55:09] <les_w> I like jag but like audi better. Best interior in the business
[18:55:15] <les_w> I had an audi before
[18:55:33] <les_w> same model I am looking at
[18:55:38] <Jymmm> les_w Fidn yourself a vintage Indian
[18:55:41] <Jacky^> well, the problem is
[18:56:00] <Jacky^> weve not more honest engineer around
[18:56:06] <les_w> I had bought a hot BMW as a feel good after a divorce
[18:56:19] <Jacky^> we should take les_w and duplicate it
[18:56:24] <Jacky^> with a copier machine
[18:56:24] <les_w> haha
[18:56:33] <Jacky^> then send him all over the world
[18:56:41] <Jacky^> to get a good card
[18:56:46] <Jacky^> understand ? :(
[18:56:50] <Jymmm> les_w: This is what you need --> http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/images/chiefSnapShot03.jpg
[18:56:50] <les_w> yeah
[18:56:51] <les_w> haha
[18:57:05] <Jacky^> :D
[18:57:12] <Jacky^> its true..
[18:57:44] <Jymmm> les_w You'll get all the chic's (even some with all their teeth) and full age range.
[18:57:59] <les_w> I have a friend who collects indians
[18:58:13] <Jymmm> I'd love to have an Indian
[18:58:19] <les_w> I got all the chicks already.
[18:58:24] <les_w> but now I am old
[18:58:37] <Jymmm> les_w they have vigra for that
[18:58:45] <les_w> not that old
[18:59:06] <Jacky^> young spirit
[18:59:11] <Jacky^> im old too
[18:59:16] <Jacky^> 37 years old
[18:59:18] <Jacky^> :/
[18:59:24] <les_w> last wife was 22 years younger
[18:59:30] <les_w> I was tired.
[18:59:31] <Jacky^> its not important
[18:59:42] <Jymmm> les_w NO NO NO not Wife, just booty call
[18:59:48] <les_w> oh
[18:59:49] <les_w> ok
[18:59:54] <Jacky^> there are peoples old at 20 years old
[19:00:00] <Jymmm> lots and lots of booty calls =)
[19:00:10] <Jacky^> hehehe
[19:00:17] <les_w> pity there is no one here.
[19:00:33] <les_w> I am trying to figure out one of my workers
[19:00:40] <les_w> he is 76
[19:00:47] <Jymmm> les_w Well, with a M/C you can take a road trip, go to overnighters, etc.
[19:00:52] <Jacky^> ah ! saturdey here is the Linux Day
[19:01:20] <les_w> picked up the 35 ish hillbilly slut with a bunch of snot nosed kids
[19:01:29] <les_w> they show up at his house
[19:01:32] <les_w> ha
[19:01:34] <Jymmm> lol
[19:01:50] <Jacky^> Software is like sex: it's better when it's free.
[19:01:53] <Jacky^> :D
[19:01:56] <les_w> I guess he convinced her he was rich
[19:02:03] <Jymmm> lol
[19:02:07] <les_w> if she knew what I paid him...
[19:02:22] <Jymmm> with $20 in the bank, in comparison, he just might be.
[19:02:35] <les_w> yeah
[19:03:07] <Jymmm> les_w one of these days need to chat with you about eliminating toolmarks.
[19:03:20] <les_w> on wood?
[19:03:24] <Jymmm> yeah
[19:03:55] <les_w> rigidity of work and tool is key
[19:04:05] <les_w> otherwise get out the sandpaper
[19:04:05] <Jymmm> I suspect a lot of it is from the CAM (lil bugs), but not all of them.
[19:04:30] <Jymmm> I hard (edge) clamp the workpiece of that's what you mean.
[19:04:37] <Jymmm> s/of/if/
[19:04:49] <les_w> it's funny...a .002" toolmark or gouge sticks out like a sore thumb
[19:04:58] <Jymmm> yeah, no shit.
[19:05:44] <Jymmm> the coin cup I made from the Ipe, has concentric circles, PLUS a diaganol line where the cam moved to the next outter circle
[19:05:48] <skunkworks> hey les_w - actually got emc2 running on a machine. Only took 2 tries. ;)
[19:05:57] <Jacky^> les_w: have you seen my first cnc machine ??
[19:06:05] <Jacky^> http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller/photo/606415
[19:06:21] <les_w> you know those dimples I carve in machined out areas of the signs?
[19:06:23] <Jacky^> the engineer was the cat , lol :)
[19:06:39] <Jymmm> les_w yeah
[19:06:53] <Jymmm> les_w the ones that make it look hand carved?
[19:07:13] <les_w> the dimples totally hide the concentric marks even though they cover only half the area
[19:07:36] <Jymmm> les_w or the ones that look like ball peen hammered
[19:07:37] <Jymmm> ?
[19:07:39] <les_w> jacky yes I saw your first machine
[19:07:44] <Jacky^> hehehe
[19:07:54] <les_w> it seems to work well for very low cost
[19:08:14] <Jacky^> yeah.. really ..
[19:08:23] <Jacky^> work nice enough
[19:08:53] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/lab/img010.jpeg.html
[19:09:05] <Jacky^> look a the jobs
[19:09:17] <Jacky^> i cant say theyre bad.. really
[19:09:19] <Jacky^> :)
[19:09:50] <les_w> for such a low cost machine...very nice work
[19:09:57] <Jacky^> thanks :)
[19:10:03] <les_w> new machine will be very very fast though
[19:10:14] <Jacky^> :P
[19:10:46] <Jacky^> infact the issues ive are the time
[19:10:59] <Jacky^> and I burn the bits too
[19:11:10] <Jacky^> of course its a speed issue
[19:11:47] <Jacky^> we'll fix it with the next machine ;P
[19:12:11] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[19:12:31] <Jacky^> going to play a multiplayer game now
[19:12:37] <Jacky^> later ..
[19:13:31] <les_w> later
[19:13:57] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[19:14:11] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^game
[19:14:13] <Jacky^game> :)
[19:15:35] <Jymmm> les_w : So, with all the engineering you've bene doing lately, has yyour router been idle during this time?
[19:20:08] <les_w> router is down now for rewiring
[19:20:36] <les_w> but yeah it has not been running anyway...had to put off the turkey call production
[19:21:03] <les_w> I am booked up completely with engineering
[19:21:12] <les_w> but I requested two weeks off
[19:21:23] <les_w> to get the turkey call thing going
[19:21:26] <les_w> without me
[19:21:40] <les_w> my guys will do it except for one day a week
[19:21:48] <les_w> and I will do engineering
[19:22:28] <les_w> I want to see just how much I can gross a week doing both jobs
[19:22:39] <les_w> goin' for a record!!!
[19:22:51] <les_w> (for me anyway)
[19:24:49] <chinamill> Hello, does anyone now how to set which paralell port to use in emc2?
[19:25:27] <les_w> The only thing...during my "time off" I have been getting constant calls from law dogs arguing over NDAs and stuff
[19:25:46] <anonimasu> les_w: have you gotten the sprayer done yet
[19:25:46] <anonimasu> ?
[19:25:48] <les_w> chinamill: emc1 user here sorry
[19:25:53] <anonimasu> or gotten any further?
[19:26:15] <les_w> just part of it. rushing to get production started
[19:26:27] <anonimasu> ok
[19:26:33] <les_w> I only have a week and a half left off from the engineering
[19:27:02] <les_w> They are very impatient with this new invention.
[19:27:21] <les_w> want everything NOW
[19:27:51] <les_w> can't blame em really...I am charging a lot.
[19:29:54] <les_w> or it seems a lot to me. Prob not much to them.
[19:32:32] <wb9mjn> Hi Les...
[19:32:41] <wb9mjn> Freezin up here...
[19:33:10] <wb9mjn> in Chicagoland...
[19:33:19] <wb9mjn> But sunny...
[19:34:36] <skunkworks> windy as heck up here in WI. Near lacrosse. Thought the house was going to blow away
[19:35:20] <wb9mjn> Here too...might be slacking off now,,,high winds since yesterday afternoon....
[19:35:37] <skunkworks> no trees down suprisingly
[19:35:55] <wb9mjn> They get stronger when they get frozen...hi!
[19:36:02] <Jymmm> les_w: Get caller ID, about setup a machine to say (only to their number( "We are on vacation and will be returning next year".
[19:37:03] <wb9mjn> Anybody have any ideas on an analog isolator (not neccassarily opto)...
[19:37:36] <wb9mjn> Need something like that for my spindle speed control from the 0-10 V output on servo card to AC spindle drive...
[19:38:06] <wb9mjn> Actually, its a 90 VDC spindle drive, running directly off AC...
[19:40:41] <wb9mjn> Also, running RC_46...and wondering how to upgrade to the newer interpretter that accepts subroutines....
[19:40:41] <skunkworks> wd9mjn - mechanical? - servo running a potentiamiter (rc servo or the like). Just winging it here. trying to think outside the box ;)
[19:41:34] <wb9mjn> Not familiar with RC-Servo's would that do it ?
[19:41:39] <skunkworks> I asked the same question here - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/message/84452
[19:42:06] <skunkworks> I need subroutines also.
[19:44:31] <wb9mjn> Looking at the CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO message...
[19:45:15] <skunkworks> have not tried it yet - rather new to linux. Did get emc2 running suprsingly though. with help from here
[19:55:41] <K`zan> wb9mjn: 73 de wv9k/7
[19:56:41] <wb9mjn> Hi VvV9K...
[19:57:05] <wb9mjn> What s new in 7 land...
[19:57:39] <K`zan> In WA state, corruption that would make chicago envious :-).
[19:58:27] <K`zan> Seattle is a noise generator and an rf hole so I am pretty inactive.
[19:58:33] <wb9mjn> Have not heard about the corruption there....
[19:58:58] <wb9mjn> I m somewhat inactive too...Icom 821 wont phase lock....
[19:59:10] <wb9mjn> In the aparment here, the TR7 has no antenna....
[19:59:25] <K`zan> After living in chicago for about 15 years, I swore I would have to go to a particularly bad 3rd world country to see worse, then I moved here and actually got shocked...
[20:00:02] <wb9mjn> I ve heard that Phoenix is quite bad RF noise wise...dry and lots of HV power lines for all the AC equipment...
[20:00:24] <K`zan> Also in apartment here and no antennas allowed. Got a 2M whip stuck in the back of an SWR bridge and cabled into the TR-751A (2M all mode) and do a little QRP SSB during contests, but that is about it.
[20:01:03] <wb9mjn> I have a 440 antenna I built in the windows, works quite well with high F/B ratio....had all sorts of problems trying to use a J-pole initially...
[20:01:07] <K`zan> Dunno about phoenix, last I heard they had built it up so much that it was more muggy than south florida.
[20:01:36] <K`zan> LOL, J-Poles are supposed to be really simple, but I have never had any luck with one.
[20:01:45] <wb9mjn> I would doubt that...Been down there to see brother....its a new definition for the term "dry" ...
[20:02:07] <Jymmm> K`zan did you try the tin lead j-poles yet?
[20:02:10] <Jymmm> twin
[20:02:17] <wb9mjn> I m an RF engineer type like person...no problem matching most anything...
[20:02:22] <K`zan> Tried a CAT5E cable for HF, but either everything I have for SW has the front end blown or this place is an RF sink.
[20:02:35] <K`zan> Jymmm: No, never heard of them?!?
[20:02:42] <wb9mjn> Nick name what I was TA in Network Analyzer class was 30 dB down Don...
[20:02:55] <Jymmm> K`zan OH YOUR KIDDING ME?!..... the EASIEST (and cheapest)
[20:03:14] <K`zan> Hey, I don't know everything, just mostly everything ;-)
[20:03:16] <Jymmm> wb9mjn: "easy to math" sure, you got a spec analyizer =)
[20:03:22] <Jymmm> s/math/match/
[20:03:37] <K`zan> LOL, something found in every shack ;-)
[20:03:38] <Jymmm> K`zan LOL
[20:04:03] <wb9mjn> Actually, I have a old 141T with 8555A about 2 feet tot he right of me here...
[20:04:19] <wb9mjn> And a bunch of directional couplers....
[20:04:24] <K`zan> Discovered all my ancient MP3s are not hosed, the libmad version of xmms seems to dislike most of them, took that out and all is well!
[20:04:32] <wb9mjn> And at work NA s to 40 GHz....
[20:04:42] <Jymmm> K`zan http://www.qsl.net/wb3gck/jpole.htm
[20:05:19] <Jymmm> K`zan (recommend the heavy duty twin-lead if you can find it)
[20:05:23] <Jymmm> not foam
[20:05:25] <wb9mjn> J poles are cheap, but do not work well in appartments, due all the reflections...
[20:05:38] <Jymmm> wb9mjn but eaisly hidden
[20:05:59] <Jymmm> in adjacent trees, etc.
[20:06:30] <wb9mjn> Sometimes its easier to hide in plane site...I made a panel antenna that does not look like an antenna....
[20:06:38] <Jymmm> lol
[20:06:48] <K`zan> I'll grabsome twin lead next time I go by rat shack and try that one, thanks Jymmm
[20:06:52] <Jymmm> never heard of a 'panel' antenna beofre
[20:07:00] <wb9mjn> Had 20 dB F/B across 435 to 450,,26 dB at 440 ...
[20:07:24] <Jymmm> K`zan np, can also toss it in a piece of PVC pipe (and a rip cord if you're so inclined)
[20:07:27] <wb9mjn> Its a microstrip antenna built into a structural panel....18 by 24 inches...
[20:07:51] <Jymmm> wb9mjn like thick film (sorta kinda)?
[20:08:13] <wb9mjn> More like a honeycomb stressed skin type of thing...
[20:08:37] <K`zan> Jymmm: With my sophisticated construction techniques, I'll probably pin it to the wall with map tacks :-).
[20:08:58] <Jymmm> K`zan a rock and some fishing line work well too
[20:09:01] <wb9mjn> Works better in a window, dead parrallel to the glass...
[20:09:24] <Jymmm> I wonder if a PCB could be made into a good gain antenna?
[20:09:35] <Jymmm> 2m and 440 (for me =)
[20:09:36] <wb9mjn> Get it off parallel, and you get surface waves, and the signal gets stuck inside the building....
[20:09:47] <K`zan> Got a friend down under making wireless antennas that are quite successful.
[20:09:53] <K`zan> on PCB.
[20:10:02] <Jymmm> K`zan directional?
[20:10:06] <K`zan> Yes
[20:10:17] <K`zan> lemme see if I can find his link.
[20:10:26] <Jymmm> K`zan : Yeah, that would suck, except for t-hunting
[20:11:03] <skunkworks> wb9mjn - did the link to CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO make sense?
[20:11:28] <wb9mjn> Nope...just the stuff about BDI 4.3...did not see anything abotu spindle speed control...
[20:11:32] <K`zan> http://www.freenet-antennas.com
[20:11:41] <Jymmm> wb9mjn: Do you have access to a good (in calibration) Spec Analyzer by chance?
[20:12:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm checks his pockets and doesn't have a spare $85K for one.
[20:12:48] <wb9mjn> Not been calibrted for years...but can double check at work on the NA's, which are....
[20:13:32] <Jymmm> wb9mjn: If I made some J-Poles, do yo uthink they would EACH need to be checked after mfg? Or just after inital design?
[20:14:25] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is clueless with antenna designs, but would like to produce some inexpensive but good ones.
[20:14:45] <K`zan> Jymmm: Random sample testing would probably do nicely.
[20:14:48] <wb9mjn> Yep...that s what I was going to do before money caught up with me and had to go work for somebody else...hi...
[20:15:10] <wb9mjn> Best to check them with a Bird wattmeter at least...
[20:15:26] <Jymmm> K`zan: Yeah, if I made some jigs and fixtures, that should reduce some problems.
[20:15:44] <Jymmm> wb9mjn: Eh, I trust a SA far more than a bird meter.
[20:15:50] <K`zan> As long as production assembly matches and tests out you should be OK.
[20:16:25] <Jymmm> K`zan: Well, the jigs would serve for EXACT cuts and such
[20:16:36] <wb9mjn> I did say "at least" ...
[20:16:43] <Jymmm> wb9mjn =)
[20:16:44] <K`zan> Jymmm: Perfect is hard to beat :-)!
[20:16:53] <wb9mjn> But a SA is only as good as the directivity of the directional coupler its hooked too....
[20:17:17] <Jymmm> K`zan Well, the stuff I see is crap,. the VA was selling them at the fleamarket, but it's been a couple of years.
[20:17:26] <Jymmm> and they didn't have any dual banders
[20:17:27] <K`zan> VA ?
[20:17:41] <Jymmm> Veterans Administration
[20:17:44] <wb9mjn> And cheap directional couplers only have about 20 dB directivity, which is like 1.22 VSWR measurement limit....
[20:18:14] <Jymmm> directional couplers ?!
[20:18:20] <K`zan> Interesting...
[20:18:33] <wb9mjn> That s why VNA s were invented, actually...
[20:18:35] <Jymmm> K`zan Vets were making/selling them for fund raising
[20:18:52] <K`zan> Very cool
[20:19:00] <K`zan> Hope you got a few :-)
[20:19:15] <Jymmm> Not a one... they were SS J-Poles
[20:19:20] <wb9mjn> A bird has allot better directivity, but the scaling can be problematic...
[20:19:37] <K`zan> Jymmm: Way overdone and overpriced :-(.
[20:19:48] <Jymmm> K`zan no, rather cheap at $40
[20:20:00] <K`zan> That ain't bad
[20:20:02] <Jymmm> USD
[20:20:18] <Jymmm> But I wanted a 'true' dual band, so I never got one.
[20:20:46] <Jymmm> tri band would be great.... 144, 220, 440
[20:20:50] <LawrenceG> cq de ve7it....
[20:21:03] <LawrenceG> hi guys
[20:21:12] <wb9mjn> Unless you can get a J-pole or other linear vertical antenna up on a roof, its not going to work to well...
[20:21:40] <LawrenceG> I just tried the latest axis display.... very pretty
[20:21:45] <wb9mjn> Which is why I did the 440 panel antenna....
[20:21:47] <Jymmm> wb9mjn: I have heard of jpoles working good in the trunk of a car (he forgot to clamp it on the mirro)
[20:22:09] <K`zan> LOL, cavity resonator :-)
[20:22:24] <wb9mjn> I ve heard of V 8 , 4000 pound cars getting 30 MPG too...hi...
[20:22:43] <Jymmm> wb9mjn downhill in a hurricane I suspect?
[20:22:52] <wb9mjn> Most likely....
[20:23:26] <K`zan> My caddy cam close to that on a trip back east (all downhill after you get over the Cascades), getting 20 MPG (500 miles on a tank).
[20:24:09] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers * CNC a la CW
[20:24:18] <wb9mjn> I am putting together a servo milling machine here....have the machine table out at an EDM shop here....You know its handy living in an area
[20:24:42] <wb9mjn> where you actually have CNC supply store commercials on the radio during the drive into to work...hi hi...
[20:24:51] <K`zan> Used to be some good mom-n-pop machine shops out around McHenry...
[20:25:00] <wb9mjn> "Get your spindle bearings at ..." ...
[20:25:04] <K`zan> K&M Machine comes to mind, but they moved to AR.
[20:25:38] <wb9mjn> Took a while to find an EDM shop small enough to do my 4 little counter bores...
[20:26:25] <wb9mjn> The servos are tuned up for the table weight as it is, I imagine I will have to re-do that when I put on the machine table which weighs about as
[20:26:34] <wb9mjn> much as the motion control tables....
[20:26:43] <wb9mjn> about 30 pounds...
[20:27:39] <Jymmm> So, hows' canada doin these days LawrenceG?
[20:30:11] <wb9mjn> Have not tried AXIS yet....looks nice....Maybe when I get my machine to do actual cutting, I ll delve into the software more....
[20:30:56] <K`zan> I'm wondering if I need to get EMC2...
[20:31:27] <wb9mjn> Depends on if you need that functionality....
[20:32:00] <wb9mjn> Now that the trajectory stuff is fixed in EMC, I m going to stay with that for a while...
[20:32:01] <K`zan> Haven't figured out what is different between that and what I have
[20:32:15] <K`zan> Just got the drivers working.
[20:32:23] <K`zan> with what I assume is EMC1
[20:32:26] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: not too bad.... its been typical Nov wx here... grey and cold... this week we have been in the fog most of the day
[20:32:43] <K`zan> BDI 4.20 IIRC
[20:33:02] <K`zan> Might be 4.30, but it is so damn hard to figure out what is what with EMC.
[20:33:54] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: progress on the dspic servo driver is going well.... I have pc comms working at about 10us/byte and am generating 3 phase sine waves via pwm at adjustable amplitude
[20:34:39] <LawrenceG> Jymmm: waiting for some sample chips so I can hook up the encoder andget that logic hammered out
[20:46:59] <K`zan> 10 Beer Barrel Polka11 [2:20]12 - 2.14MB 9 {1/1}
[20:47:07] <K`zan> oops
[21:14:55] <K`zan> 10 Various Artists - Lake Shore Drive/Aliotta, Hayn11 [3:54]12 - 3.57MB 9 {1/2}
[21:22:39] <Jymmm> LawrenceG sound sliek you've been a busy man =)
[21:23:51] <Jymmm> K`zan: I'm not sure what's worse.... that your client announce that you're listening to "Beer Barrel Polka", or that oyu actually HAVE "Beer Barrel Polka" as an mp3! =)
[21:24:10] <cradek> in heaven there is no beer
[21:24:18] <cradek> that's why we drink it here
[21:24:21] <Jymmm> Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Say it isn't so!
[21:24:33] <cradek> and when we're gone from here
[21:24:38] <cradek> our friends will be drinking all our beer
[21:25:02] <cradek> the other day on the college station jeff and I heard the john deere tractor polka
[21:25:15] <Jymmm> you're kidding me...
[21:25:20] <cradek> not at all
[21:25:43] <Jymmm> Man, y'all a bunch of John Deer tractor farmin freaks!
[21:26:16] <cradek> well, I doubt that particular polka was written around here
[21:26:34] <Jymmm> I dun know....
[21:28:12] <Jymmm> btw, where's 'here' ?
[21:29:07] <cradek> I don't know, it's not my song
[21:29:23] <Jymmm> you don't know where you live?
[21:30:02] <cradek> who am I? why am I here?
[21:30:08] <Jymmm> lol
[21:31:17] <Jymmm> cradek: Happy Gobble Gobble (or Oink Oink)
[21:31:35] <cradek> thanks, but I don't speak turkey or pig
[21:31:42] <Jymmm> moo ?
[21:31:55] <Jymmm> (dont dare say tofurky)
[21:31:57] <cradek> ?
[21:32:21] <cradek> durnit, savannah.nongnu.org is down
[21:32:31] <Jymmm> what are you having for thanksgiving dinner?
[21:32:40] <cradek> haven't decided yet
[21:32:59] <Jymmm> Oh, no other half ?
[21:33:02] <cradek> whatever looks good I guess
[21:33:12] <cradek> I do know I am going to try to make a sweet potato pie
[21:33:36] <Jymmm> cradek: Hint... cut them in half long ways before baking.
[21:33:55] <cradek> I have some huge sweet potatoes
[21:34:04] <cradek> I put them in the oven yesterday for an hour as I was making something else
[21:34:08] <cradek> they're only half done
[21:34:43] <cradek> the recipes seem to say I should boil, not bake, them
[21:44:52] <Jymmm> Baking works, but the density is too much whole. YOu could steak them, but you have to make them about 1" cubes to cook evenly.
[21:45:02] <Jymmm> s/steak/steam/
[21:45:15] <cradek> have you made a pie like this?
[21:46:02] <Jymmm> We baked 5 yesterday (not pies), cutting in half length wise really helped (wrap each half in foil and place on a drip pan.
[21:46:17] <cradek> ok, will do
[21:46:46] <LawrenceG> Hi Chris... nice work on the latest axis.... I really like the dimensions.... I am sure it will save a few table crashes knowing the part limits
[21:46:47] <Jymmm> use a sharp knife, and WATCH THE FINGERS! They're a bitch to cut.
[21:47:08] <cradek> Jymmm: it'll be easy since they're half cooked
[21:47:17] <cradek> LawrenceG: glad to hear it! I like the dimensions too.
[21:47:36] <LawrenceG> I finally know how tall tux is!
[21:47:41] <cradek> ha
[21:47:42] <Jymmm> cradek: Cool - and they'll scoop out just like an avacado once cooked - no need to peel them.
[21:48:18] <Jymmm> cradek (cool as in good, not lo temperature =)
[21:48:41] <Jymmm> LawrenceG huge, isn't it!