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[00:03:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm dont care much for Dell either, especially laptops
[00:04:16] <SWPadnos> yeah - I use M-Tech. They're quite reliable, and reasonably inexpensive
[00:04:48] <Jymmm> Never heard of them. I'm happy with my Fuji and my TP
[00:05:10] <SWPadnos> http://www.mtechlaptops.com
[00:05:56] <SWPadnos> dual-core Athlon laptops (though the D900K isn't available yet, even though they say "mid-October")
[00:06:40] <SWPadnos> gotta run for a bit
[00:06:44] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[00:36:57] <Jacky^> night
[00:37:04] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[04:09:04] <K`zan> I have GOT to have a bad parallel port. X axis works fine, Y&Z only half arsed pull down and not enough to work...
[04:38:23] <Jymmm> K`zan: Just switch around the axis; that'll let you know for sure.
[05:06:27] <K`zan> Jymmm: Finally found the problem, port setup on the driver </dumbass> :-)
[05:06:57] <K`zan> Now I have no excuse but to start working on the mechanicals :-)
[06:11:39] <CIA-5> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (36 files in 22 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Tue Nov 15 05:30:01 GMT 2005 "
[06:32:32] <Jymmm> K`zan: LOL, it happens to the best of us =)
[06:35:33] <K`zan> :-) strangely now my X axis moves 2 inches when commanded for 1, distance traveled seems to vary by feed rate, I think my driver is not working quite right.
[06:39:04] <Jymmm> everything the same?
[06:39:11] <Jymmm> settings, pitch, etc
[06:40:25] <K`zan> Yes.
[06:40:49] <K`zan> Driver may be too slow in responding, not sure yet.
[06:47:31] <Jymmm> what voltage/amp?
[06:49:34] <K`zan> Running about 15V and maybe 200 - 300 mA per stepper (Essentially floppy steppers).
[06:50:19] <Jymmm> is there enough torque in those?
[06:50:38] <K`zan> These:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G14781&variation=&aitem=3&mitem=6
[06:51:28] <K`zan> Considering I am just driving the "leadscrew" (1/4-20) with a nut on it and a paper clip to keep it from just rotating.
[06:51:46] <K`zan> Extreme budget gantry router in process :-).
[06:52:24] <Jymmm> K`zan extremely small travel too... what 4" ??? lol
[06:58:33] <K`zan> Probably about 8 I think, 12" screws. Server got updated and I need to get +Indexes back in there as soon as I can find it and I can point you at a pix.
[06:59:02] <Jymmm> no problem, anytime I aint goin anywhere =)
[06:59:16] <Jymmm> for making PCB's?
[07:06:20] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/MechAxis1-001.jpg (also 002 and 003)
[07:06:21] <K`zan> Yes
[07:06:43] <K`zan> Going to see what I can do with this kluge, mostly educational, but it might prove useful :-).
[07:08:11] <K`zan> Made up my own driver using an ATTiny2313 microcontroller and a ULN2803 to actually drive the stepper.
[07:09:31] <Jymmm> ah, very cool.
[07:09:43] <K`zan> oops 2 and 4 :)
[07:10:19] <K`zan> Had a bad 2313 and it took me a few days to figure that out, never had a bad one before.
[07:11:28] <Jymmm> that ALWAYS sucks...
[07:12:53] <K`zan> Yes, it sure did, last thing I expected :-/.
[07:13:48] <K`zan> The mechanics (woodanics :-) is going to be interesting.
[07:14:19] <Jymmm> dont use MDF
[07:14:48] <K`zan> Plan on using 2x2 or 2x3 for the frame and hardboard for the rails.
[07:14:50] <Jymmm> you might try delrin, UHMW, acetate (sp), and a few other plastics.
[07:15:18] <K`zan> Very VERY limited on real tools here, pretty much limited to hand tools at this point.\
[07:15:33] <Jymmm> any power saw at all?
[07:15:43] <Jymmm> jigsaw?
[07:15:58] <Jymmm> drillpress?
[07:16:25] <K`zan> Yes, do have that and a little tabletop saw table for the circular. Yes, jigsaw and a heavily hacked cheap chinese drill press (sloppy as HELL).
[07:16:54] <K`zan> REplaced the motor on it as the original would start stinking after about a minute of running.
[07:16:58] <Jymmm> better than nothing =)
[07:17:03] <Jymmm> oh joy
[07:17:22] <K`zan> Yes, not totally destitute in the tool department, but ya gotta start someplace :).
[07:17:55] <K`zan> Much more time on my hands than cash in them :-/. Challenge to be creative.
[07:18:05] <Jymmm> oh please.... I know that feeling. I have a drillpress and a 10" tablesaw, but that's it.
[07:18:20] <K`zan> Gives me hope :-) :-) :-)
[07:18:33] <Jymmm> AND I live in an apartment
[07:19:58] <K`zan> Same here
[07:20:14] <K`zan> Second bedroom serves for Jeans rock room and my workshop.
[07:20:26] <Jymmm> heh
[07:20:52] <Jymmm> pretty much the same here. Except I have the router in here
[07:21:11] <Jymmm> on a 4' x 4' gorilla rack
[07:21:19] <K`zan> Getting the room for anything else will require re-arranging everything (again :-).
[07:22:33] <Jymmm> I have the gorilla rack, 3 file cabinets, and two 60" x 30" tables in a 10' x 12' room
[07:23:47] <K`zan> Just a little tight? LOL
[07:24:09] <Jymmm> Just a little =)
[07:24:39] <K`zan> Need to build up another bench on the other wall to have any hope of getting anything new in there.
[07:24:48] <Jymmm> only place to go is vertical (actually about 8" from the ceiling in some spots)
[07:25:11] <Jymmm> where you at?
[07:25:30] <K`zan> Pulling 400 mA off both steppers at this point (holding last commanded position).
[07:25:39] <K`zan> seattle
[07:26:43] <Jymmm> These are pretty good...
http://www.gorillarack.com/products/storage/Storage.htm
[07:27:39] <Jymmm> I have the 48" x 24", but instead of going tall, I did a 4' x 4' layout. They include these lil locking pins that allow you to do that.
[07:28:23] <Jymmm> GR 2000-B
[07:28:39] <K`zan> Look better than that flimsy arsed metal 4 shelver I have in there.
[07:28:52] <Jymmm> They can hold like 2000 lbs
[07:29:12] <K`zan> Heh, that one would go flat at 1/10th that :)
[07:29:16] <Jymmm> the particle board they include, is a lil on the thing side.
[07:29:24] <Jymmm> thin
[07:29:28] <Jymmm> 3/8" thick
[07:29:32] <K`zan> Easy enough to replace.
[07:29:44] <K`zan> For flowers it is prolly OK :).
[07:29:46] <Jymmm> yep, but atleast they include "somthting"
[07:30:00] <K`zan> Something is not necessarily better than nothing :).
[07:30:00] <Jymmm> are they are VERY sturdy
[07:30:23] <Jymmm> I'd get under it in an earthquake if I had to.
[07:31:00] <K`zan> Heaviest thing I have on that shelf is a small parts cabinet, the first shelf (floor) has the junk boxes to keep it from falling over...
[07:31:17] <K`zan> Heh, quake here, we ride it down (4th floor).
[07:43:07] <Jymmm> lol
[07:44:25] <Jymmm> I like the idea of these shelves becasue I can make a 4x4 ft table, a 2 x 8 ft bench, or a 2 x 4 x 6ft tall shelf, and no bolts.
[07:45:39] <K`zan> Nifty!
[07:46:18] <Jymmm> I could build one out of lumber, but that's fixed. can't convert it, or tear it down for moving.
[07:46:58] <K`zan> I built the one we have out of 2x4s screwed together with an old door on the top - easy to unscrew into parts to move.
[07:50:18] <Jymmm> yeah, old doors are GREAT for benchtops
[07:50:40] <K`zan> solid ones anyway
[07:51:25] <Jymmm> oh come on.... hollow doors can hold a zillion pounds and not even bow
[07:55:42] <fenn> * fenn has some doors with about 250 lbs of porcealin dust on 'em.. took a couple months but they're sagging about 4 inches in the middle
[07:56:15] <Jymmm> lol
[07:57:21] <Jymmm> I'm reading up on Rit dyes
[07:58:04] <fenn> does a critical speed of 2160 rpm sound about right for a 36" 1/2-10 acme screw?
[07:58:15] <K`zan> LOL
[07:58:50] <Jymmm> fenn: 36" seems a lil long for 1/2" acme
[07:59:10] <Jymmm> fenn jsut be aware of that is all I'm saying.
[07:59:13] <fenn> yeah i'm only going to do 18" or so, but figured that's the size range most people around here are working in
[07:59:56] <Jymmm> fenn: My router was 1/2" acme at 30" (total length) and it bowed.
[08:00:25] <Jymmm> I only have 8" total 1/2" acme on the Z, and that's fine
[08:04:41] <Jymmm> fenn: Silly question.... would you be slightly interested in some acme antibacklaush nuts?
[08:07:15] <fenn> i need 6 of them
[08:07:30] <fenn> i'll probably make my own.. the design is kinda tight right there
[08:07:51] <Jymmm> how so?
[08:08:15] <fenn> well it has to fit perfectly inside a tube of some diameter i dont know yet
[08:08:24] <Jymmm> why a tube?
[08:09:07] <fenn> a telescoping tube prevents side-loading of the nut, which is really bad in this situation
[08:09:24] <Jymmm> side loading?
[08:09:36] <Jymmm> you mean pivot?
[08:09:44] <fenn> overturning and side loading both
[08:10:02] <Jymmm> I'm not following, but that's ok
[08:10:14] <fenn> the tube acts like a linear guide for the actuator
[08:11:02] <fenn> but it's more balanced than a screw next to a slide
[08:11:30] <Jymmm> I think I follow ya. post a pic when you get it completed.
[08:11:50] <fenn> i've got to figure out some way to do it with an arbitrarily shaped nut though.. i've got a bigger version that i've already got the nuts and screws for
[08:12:39] <fenn> i'm thinking something goofy along the lines of skate bearings on gas pipe, but inside-out
[08:13:09] <Jymmm> for a slide?
[08:13:13] <fenn> yeah
[08:13:44] <Jymmm> it have to be a "C" shape
[08:13:46] <fenn> the amount of side loading depends on how well-designed and accurately made it is.. so i dunno how bad it will be for sure
[08:25:32] <fenn> DOM steel tubing is surprisingly cheap in larger sizes
[08:26:47] <Jymmm> try recycling places too if you dont need full lengths
[08:29:04] <fenn> all the places around here let everything sit out and rust in the sun
[08:29:29] <fenn> why don't they just put a tarp over it?
[08:30:01] <Jymmm> too much work
[08:30:19] <Jymmm> but wd40 goes a long way
[08:34:40] <fenn> stupid online metals is all screwed up
[08:47:26] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[19:43:44] <fenn> halcmd list comp is no good?
[19:43:47] <SWPadnos> how is show not exhaustive?
[19:44:13] <rayh_> I can get that list, problem is getting from it to lower level lists
[19:44:17] <SWPadnos> sure
[19:44:49] <SWPadnos> one simple way to do this would be to add a "tree" option to show - that lists all pins, functs, and params for a given component
[19:44:52] <rayh_> iocontrol is great cause it lists all pins as "iocontrolxxx
[19:44:54] <SWPadnos> no complex filtering stuff
[19:45:11] <rayh_> I don't think I need it that fancy.
[19:45:26] <SWPadnos> 'halcmd show tree motion'
[19:45:41] <rayh_> I just need to be able to call for all pins or parms from a specific component.
[19:45:44] <SWPadnos> like show all, but only lists "all" for motion component
[19:46:05] <rayh_> list pin iocontrol
[19:46:20] <rayh_> is exactly the example of what I'd like for all components
[19:46:35] <rayh_> the problem is that the iocontrol is a simple grep
[19:46:48] <rayh_> and it does not work for many of the modules.
[19:46:56] <SWPadnos> sure, if you want to change the sense of the parameter (iocontrol) to mean "pins connected to a component with the name iocontrol", rather than pins that start with the text "iocontrol"
[19:47:10] <SWPadnos> it's not even grep - it's a match on the beginning of the name
[19:47:11] <rayh_> Exactly
[19:47:17] <rayh_> okay.
[19:47:50] <SWPadnos> regexps look like a nice thing here as well (find anything with "axis" in the name
[19:48:02] <SWPadnos> not just at the beginning)
[19:48:15] <alex_joni> relaxisanicehabit
[19:48:16] <rayh_> Problem with that is they can get smattered all over a HAL.
[19:48:30] <SWPadnos> but that's topic #6 or so :)
[19:48:39] <rayh_> cause we can name axis-funky to a pin on cl
[19:49:04] <rayh_> signal axis-funky
[19:49:11] <SWPadnos> CL would have a pin named I0 or the like, but the signal could be funkyaxisinhibit
[19:49:38] <rayh_> alex_joni: youbetchabuddy
[19:50:05] <SWPadnos> that brings up topic #3 - sjhowing more than one set of information, but not all (ie, 'halcmd show pin param axis')
[19:50:26] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that will be a bitch to parse
[19:50:31] <alex_joni> maybe do it:
[19:50:38] <SWPadnos> filters are already a bitch, so what the heck ;)
[19:50:39] <alex_joni> 'halcmd show pin,param axis'
[19:50:43] <alex_joni> way easier
[19:51:01] <rayh_> There is a case of multiple return that we might like to use
[19:51:11] <SWPadnos> I was thinking about that, because halcmd expects exactly one specifier for the "type" to show, and at most one for the selection filter
[19:51:19] <rayh_> That would be owner, type, and name for a pin or sig
[19:51:28] <SWPadnos> actually - at most one type specifier
[19:51:45] <fenn> why not just show all data for a particular pin?
[19:52:13] <fenn> then reconstruct the tree from that
[19:52:14] <rayh_> but as long as the number of types, owner, and pins is the same.
[19:52:25] <rayh_> I can easily set them up in tcl
[19:52:30] <SWPadnos> you know - one thing I thought of when looking at the output from 'show' was that the owner ID could be output as a string just about as easily as the ID number
[19:52:55] <SWPadnos> so instead of getting "02 bit R- fredbit"
[19:53:16] <SWPadnos> you'd get "fredcomp bit R- fredbit"
[19:53:27] <SWPadnos> that would make parsing in tcl a lot easier, I'd imagine
[19:54:05] <SWPadnos> then halcmd show pin | grep -e "^fredcomp" would list all pins owned by fredcomp
[19:54:05] <rayh_> and "fredcomp" would be what I'd like to call a toplevel HAL thingie?
[19:54:16] <SWPadnos> yes - "motion" - sorry :)
[19:54:17] <alex_joni> fredcomp = iocontrol
[19:54:21] <alex_joni> or motion
[19:54:23] <alex_joni> or stg
[19:54:26] <SWPadnos> or iocontrol
[19:54:29] <SWPadnos> or parport
[19:54:44] <alex_joni> parport.0 actually
[19:54:55] <SWPadnos> true
[19:54:56] <alex_joni> I think..
[19:55:05] <alex_joni> although they all have the same ID
[19:55:09] <SWPadnos> maybe - hard to know. the pin is owned by one component
[19:55:13] <SWPadnos> the name is just changed
[19:55:50] <SWPadnos> so it may be possible to do this the "easy" way, by changing the output of show to names vs. numbers for those kinds of things
[19:56:52] <SWPadnos> that may be agood interim step, before everything gets rethought anyway (interactive mode support, error handling, etc)
[19:59:50] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yup..
[20:00:07] <SWPadnos> heh - I was wondering if the intarweb was broken :)
[20:00:15] <SWPadnos> sorry - teh intarweb
[20:01:41] <SWPadnos> yep - teh intarweb is b0rked
[20:02:17] <alex_joni> borken
[20:02:25] <alex_joni> broekn
[20:02:42] <alex_joni> boerkn
[20:02:57] <SWPadnos> no - that would be if there were more than one intarweb - like "my b0xen are b0rken" :)
[20:04:06] <rayh> Darn dial up
[20:04:14] <SWPadnos> heh - what's the last thing you saw?
[20:04:23] <steve_stallings2> steve_stallings2 is now known as steves_logging2
[20:04:38] <rayh> something about parport.0 being a xxxcomp
[20:05:02] <SWPadnos> ok - hold on a sec
[20:05:30] <SWPadnos> alex_joniparport.0 actually
[20:05:32] <SWPadnos> SWPadnostrue
[20:05:33] <SWPadnos> alex_joniI think..
[20:05:35] <SWPadnos> although they all have the same ID
[20:05:37] <SWPadnos> SWPadnosmaybe - hard to know. the pin is owned by one component
[20:05:38] <SWPadnos> the name is just changed
[20:05:40] <SWPadnos> so it may be possible to do this the "easy" way, by changing the output of show to names vs. numbers for those kinds of things
[20:05:41] <SWPadnos> that may be agood interim step, before everything gets rethought anyway (interactive mode support, error handling, etc)
[20:05:55] <SWPadnos> chatzilla has crappy copy/paste
[20:06:28] <rayh_nastier> btw I've got emc2-lerman running here.
[20:06:35] <SWPadnos> cool
[20:06:56] <alex_joni> nasty ;)
[20:07:37] <rayh_nastier> There is a PROBLEM.
[20:07:46] <rayh_nastier> I saw it yesterday as well.
[20:08:04] <SWPadnos> which problem>
[20:08:05] <SWPadnos> ?
[20:08:26] <rayh_nastier> a fault causes emc to go into estop-reset but the axis keeps moving.
[20:08:45] <SWPadnos> ah - I had noticed that as well
[20:08:55] <Jymmm> You know, these pics are REALLY pathetic! Not one specs of dust, no swarf, no oil/coolant/grease stains, no marks on the benches where a tool/part might have been dropped/bumped. Do ppl just setup machiens then never use them or what?! LOL
http://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller
[20:09:00] <rayh_nastier> It's like the last commanded speed hangs into the step generator.
[20:09:27] <SWPadnos> yep - I had to shut down emc to fix it - I couldn't even issue an mdi command to stop it
[20:09:42] <SWPadnos> I didn't try jogging though
[20:10:15] <rayh_nastier> Oh. I hit machine on and it stopped motion.
[20:10:34] <alex_joni> that's really nasty ./
[20:10:34] <SWPadnos> not for me
[20:10:36] <rayh_nastier> I was way beyond soft limits by then though
[20:10:44] <rayh_nastier> and had to home again to zero stuff out.
[20:10:46] <SWPadnos> I hit estop, then reset / machine on, and tried MDI
[20:11:41] <SWPadnos> there! now I'll be abpe to pase like a normal person
[20:11:53] <rayh_nastier> didn't try another interp message. will now if I can reproduce the problem.
[20:12:30] <SWPadnos> I had to increase the limits, of course, to get that first test prog to work
[20:12:34] <alex_joni> anything fancy before you got the problem?
[20:12:54] <SWPadnos> I think it was the second program that did it, and I hadn't homed after running the first program
[20:13:24] <alex_joni> might not be interp related..
[20:13:41] <alex_joni> but it's nice if it pulls a bug and brings it forward, easier to fix
[20:13:47] <SWPadnos> hard to know, but the if test program leaves the machine at 0.4, 0, 4
[20:14:08] <SWPadnos> then the next program is supposed to do something similar, but it ran away
[20:15:16] <rayh_nastier> Caused the error by running an axis to fast for this box. Following error message.
[20:15:29] <alex_joni> I see..
[20:15:37] <rayh_nastier> it did stop when I pressed estop then estop off then machine on.
[20:15:50] <alex_joni> if you ever get it again.. start an halcmd
[20:15:54] <rayh_nastier> this was axis 2.
[20:15:57] <SWPadnos> hmm - I may have to boot up the machine and look at that
[20:15:57] <alex_joni> and look at the pins from axis.2.
[20:16:09] <rayh_nastier> okay. will do that now.
[20:20:28] <rayh_nastier> all pins are false but the counter keeps incrementing.
[20:20:50] <rayh_nastier> eventually emc kiks up the soft limit exceeded message.
[20:21:15] <rayh_nastier> You can reproduce the problem by pressing machine off while it is running and an axis is moving.
[20:22:25] <alex_joni_> damn.. got disconnected
[20:22:30] <alex_joni_> [20:36] <alex_joni> what mode were you in before it happened
[20:22:31] <alex_joni_> [20:36] <alex_joni> auto?
[20:22:45] <rayh> Yes and running loop
[20:22:54] <alex_joni_> ok..
[20:23:08] <rayh> but IMO you may be able to reproduce the problem anytime just by pressing machine off during motion.
[20:23:30] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ tries that
[20:23:42] <alex_joni_> even on emc2? or only the interp- one?
[20:25:37] <rayh_nastier> I'll have to try it on emc2 rather than interp.
[20:26:10] <rayh_nastier> It will do it on whichever axis is moving when the machine off is pressed while running a program.
[20:26:25] <alex_joni_> yup
[20:26:30] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ can confirm
[20:26:33] <alex_joni_> on stock emc2
[20:26:38] <alex_joni_> this is a NASTY BUG
[20:27:06] <rayh_nastier> doesn't seem to do it from mdi.
[20:27:11] <alex_joni_> one of the severe ones
[20:27:50] <alex_joni_> yes it does.. in MDI too
[20:28:02] <rayh_nastier> Yes it does do it from mdi depending upon commanded speed.
[20:28:28] <alex_joni_> yes.. I tried G0, and it appears
[20:28:36] <alex_joni_> it slows down a bit, but continues going
[20:28:38] <rayh_nastier> switching to yesterday's emc2
[20:28:48] <alex_joni_> won't matter
[20:28:52] <alex_joni_> I just tried on emc2
[20:30:07] <rayh_nastier> Yep it's there as well.
[20:30:18] <SWPadnos> cool - I got my emc machine to crash testing this :)
[20:30:30] <rayh_nastier> It looks like the axis stuff does not honor the state of the enable pin.
[20:30:31] <SWPadnos> (computer, not an actual machine)
[20:30:47] <SWPadnos> like - instant reboot
[20:30:48] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ submits a bug report
[20:30:53] <rayh_nastier> darn -- I like the sound of crunching metal.
[20:31:14] <SWPadnos> heh - just the sound of a remote X session not responding :)
[20:31:53] <alex_joni_> oohh.. that's no fun
[20:31:54] <SWPadnos> I can confirm that all axes in motion will remain in motion when you go to machine off, though
[20:31:59] <rayh_nastier> "the sound of silence"
[20:32:13] <SWPadnos> yeah - then I loked over and saw the BIOS memory count
[20:32:26] <SWPadnos> looked, even
[20:33:31] <Jymmm> "Silence of the CAMs"
[20:33:46] <rayh_nastier> There you go.
[20:34:18] <rayh_nastier> * rayh_nastier makes a note of finding his first emc2 bug.
[20:34:28] <alex_joni_> geez.. did you guys see the new look of SF?
[20:34:29] <alex_joni_> https://sourceforge.net/projects/emc
[20:34:40] <SWPadnos> yeah - not sure I really like it
[20:34:44] <rayh_nastier> I heard something about it a couple weeks ago.
[20:34:50] <alex_joni_> just changed
[20:34:54] <rayh_nastier> Not been there in a while.
[20:35:02] <alex_joni_> a few hours sooner it was still the old..
[20:35:38] <SWPadnos> I saw this style (or one close to it) yesterday for the first time
[20:35:51] <SWPadnos> I love all the ads :(
[20:36:55] <rayh_nastier> Somebody start a SF project to write an SF ad blocker.
[20:38:29] <Jymmm> iptables block doubleclick.net
[20:38:53] <Jymmm> and falkag.net too
[20:39:00] <rayh_nastier> rayh_nastier is now known as rayh_lunch
[20:39:32] <alex_joni_> ok.. added the bug report
[20:40:41] <Jymmm> Heh, could you imagine if SF just went belly up one day.
[20:40:46] <SWPadnos> hmmm - something else is wrong with my CNC controller - I can't get reliable X connections any more.
[20:41:03] <SWPadnos> maybe that thunderstorm (or the unplugging) didn't help
[20:41:23] <SWPadnos> no - it just rebooted again, with EMC2 running.
[20:41:32] <alex_joni_> that's odd
[20:41:40] <Jymmm> check the logs
[20:42:01] <SWPadnos> no logs when the machine spontaneously reboots :(
[20:42:24] <SWPadnos> I'll see if it's EMC, by not running it this time :)
[20:42:57] <SWPadnos> ok - it seems that it didn't reboot this time, just the X server went screwy
[20:44:23] <SWPadnos> it's too bad that a 12.1" 800x600 screen isn't as much real estate as triple 1280x1024 19" screens ;)
[20:44:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos then switch out a 19" for the 12.1" =)
[20:45:52] <SWPadnos> d00d - what an idea!!!!
[20:46:03] <SWPadnos> too bad the 12.1 is a built-in LCD
[20:46:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: that's no excuse! what do you think sawsall are for!
[20:46:47] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe that last was a reboot, and I just didn't notice the POST
[20:47:10] <SWPadnos> well - I do have a 17" LCD that I could use, but analog is just yucky
[20:47:43] <SWPadnos> it would be funny to have one of the 2405FPWs on the CNC machine, though (celeron 500)
[20:48:45] <SWPadnos> OK - it did reboot again - uptime shows 7 minutes
[20:49:11] <alex_joni_> without emc?
[20:49:22] <SWPadnos> no - just describing the most recent reboot
[20:49:32] <alex_joni_> I see
[20:49:35] <SWPadnos> I'll go with konsole and kate for a while and see what happens
[20:50:08] <SWPadnos> I really should try to get XDMCP or VNC going
[20:50:08] <rayh_lunch> rayh_lunch is now known as rayh_
[20:52:13] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is chewing through the motion controller
[20:52:18] <alex_joni_> already has a theory ;)
[20:52:57] <SWPadnos> which is ...
[20:53:36] <alex_joni_> motion.enable doesn't get set ot 0 :P
[20:53:52] <SWPadnos> wouldn't halcmd show tell you that?
[20:54:04] <SWPadnos> (not me, since I'm not running emc right now :) )
[20:54:25] <alex_joni_> it does
[20:54:35] <SWPadnos> ah - excellent
[20:54:54] <SWPadnos> so it's the "iocontroller" then? (more machine logic here ;) )
[20:56:49] <SWPadnos> I guess it would help if the axis enables were connected in the default .hal files
[20:57:54] <SWPadnos> they are in core_servo, but not in core_stepper
[20:59:22] <alex_joni_> they are not used for steppers
[20:59:30] <alex_joni_> they are after all amp-enable's
[21:00:07] <SWPadnos> sure, but the same thing that disables pid-n should also disable stepgen-n
[21:03:34] <rayh_> This sounds a bit like reverse thinking.
[21:03:49] <SWPadnos> yoda-speak it is
[21:03:59] <rayh_> rather than trying to be certain that a servo or stepper system was disabled.
[21:04:17] <rayh_> that should be the default condition
[21:04:25] <SWPadnos> no - I may have uses the wrong name there
[21:04:49] <rayh_> Something active should be held so an axis keeps going.
[21:05:04] <SWPadnos> what I was trying to say is that there's no connection between iocontrol or motion enable outputs and stepgen enable inputs in the core_{servo,stepper} hal files
[21:05:21] <rayh_> In the real world of machines, machine dropping to off should disable axis power.
[21:05:40] <rayh_> but it's still a shame to see the axis position displays keep on counting.
[21:06:08] <rayh_> * rayh_ gotta reboot and test a cd.
[21:06:20] <SWPadnos> yes - and in the internal world of emc2, tkemc sends a command somewhere, which eventually turns into a HAL pin changing, but that pin isn't connected to the stepgen disable input
[21:08:00] <alex_joni_> does stepgen even have such a pin?
[21:08:10] <SWPadnos> I think so
[21:08:16] <SWPadnos> try a halcmd show pin ;)
[21:08:37] <SWPadnos> oh - I may have been thinking of axis.n.disable
[21:11:10] <SWPadnos> well - the machine seems stable without emc running - I'm gonna fire it up, and see what happens
[21:12:58] <SWPadnos> no - stepgen doesn't have an enable input
[21:13:04] <SWPadnos> it probably should
[21:13:54] <SWPadnos> boom! there it went - spontaneous reboot
[21:14:12] <SWPadnos> emc just sitting there, no program loaded, me not interacting with it
[21:15:02] <rayh> Is it possible that period is right at the edge for your box speed?
[21:15:29] <SWPadnos> ok - this wasn't a reboot - just X restarting (unless something is way weird and the POST is blanked for some reason)
[21:15:39] <SWPadnos> I don't think so - it should be 50 uS or so
[21:16:18] <alex_joni_> what kernel/rtai are you running?
[21:16:26] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it has to do with screensavers or something
[21:16:36] <SWPadnos> hold on a sec - I'll let you know
[21:16:58] <SWPadnos> kernel 2.6.9-adeos
[21:17:06] <alex_joni_> your own?
[21:17:11] <alex_joni_> with magma?
[21:17:23] <alex_joni_> because magma had a bug in it.. a while ago
[21:17:33] <SWPadnos> I probably have recompiled on this box, but I don't remember which BDI it's from
[21:17:45] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos bows head in shame
[21:17:55] <alex_joni_> you probably should get a more recent ont
[21:17:57] <alex_joni_> one
[21:18:29] <SWPadnos> what are the changes to the sources.list - I note that Paul's repository seems to be offline at the moment
[21:18:57] <SWPadnos> I checked into updates yesterday, but didn't proceed with the 200-odd meg of downloads
[21:19:21] <alex_joni_> there is
http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/emc/debian ..
[21:19:24] <alex_joni_> mirror for the deb stuff
[21:20:37] <SWPadnos> also, webersys seemed to be nonexistent - should that just be removed?
[21:22:41] <alex_joni_> comment it out for now
[21:23:21] <rayh> I think that one of the webersys repositories is alive
[21:23:40] <rayh> but it want's to search for other packages or some such thing and raises errors.
[21:23:46] <SWPadnos> done - any particular directory / distribution name for your mirror? (./ didn't work for me)
[21:25:24] <alex_joni_> deb
http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/emc/debian/ sarge updates extras
[21:26:09] <SWPadnos> thanks - trying that now
[21:26:19] <rayh_emc2> Back to testing of emc2-lerman
[21:27:34] <SWPadnos> it seems to have stalled at package 5 of 6
[21:27:42] <SWPadnos> Release in extras
[21:27:52] <SWPadnos> oops - after Release in extras
[21:28:36] <SWPadnos> bummer - that weas a failure connecting to debian :(
[21:29:21] <SWPadnos> not sure I want to upgrade if Debian eppears to be offline
[21:30:23] <SWPadnos> OK - that'll take a good hour - gotta download 486M of packages for a full upgrade
[21:31:02] <SWPadnos> I know that emc was stable on this machine up until yesterday or so. I'm not sure what changed to make it unstable
[21:31:29] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ didn't do it ...
[21:32:42] <SWPadnos> I agree - I'm just not sure what did :)
[21:32:49] <alex_joni_> darn.. been chasing the wrong path
[21:32:57] <alex_joni_> motion.enable is input to motion controller :(
[21:33:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:33:13] <SWPadnos> those arrows can be useful :)
[21:37:22] <alex_joni_> wtf?
[21:37:27] <alex_joni_> I'm missing some pins
[21:37:35] <alex_joni_> might have dropped them ..
[21:37:37] <SWPadnos> ??
[21:37:44] <alex_joni_> motion.enabled
[21:37:46] <SWPadnos> heh - hard to hear
[21:37:49] <alex_joni_> and a bunch others
[21:37:57] <SWPadnos> how did you list them?
[21:37:58] <alex_joni_> they seem to be gone..
[21:38:02] <alex_joni_> show
[21:38:06] <alex_joni_> halmeter
[21:38:08] <alex_joni_> halscope
[21:38:09] <SWPadnos> just halcmd show?
[21:38:13] <alex_joni_> they aren't there..
[21:38:31] <SWPadnos> is motion loaded?
[21:38:33] <rayh_emc2> Starting emc...
[21:38:34] <rayh_emc2> rtai-load: cannot find run info: /home/rayh/emctest/emc2/rtlib/.runinfo
[21:38:39] <alex_joni_> yes
[21:38:44] <rayh_emc2> what's that mean?
[21:38:50] <alex_joni_> I get motion.enable, but not motion.enabled
[21:39:01] <alex_joni_> rayh_emc2. a file is missing
[21:39:24] <SWPadnos> I don't have a motion.enabled either
[21:40:20] <alex_joni_> rayh_emc2: go to src/rtapi and issue make rtapi.conf
[21:40:46] <SWPadnos> or motion.motion-enabled, as it's named in motion.c
[21:41:06] <alex_joni_> no debug pins too
[21:41:16] <alex_joni_> and I KNOW I have been using those in the past
[21:43:41] <rayh_emc2> something ate the file between runs.
[21:43:46] <rayh_emc2> ng
[21:43:57] <rayh_emc2> I'll try a new configure and make.
[21:44:40] <SWPadnos> alex - do you see the axis.n.amp-enable-out pins change when you change to machine off?
[21:44:48] <alex_joni_> yes, those work OK
[21:45:03] <rayh_emc2> I saw that here also.
[21:45:07] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ has another theory
[21:45:08] <SWPadnos> OK - then making the stepgen act like the PID blocks would be a good solution
[21:45:13] <alex_joni_> testing that now..
[21:46:10] <fenn> /away
[21:46:15] <fenn> oops :)
[21:46:24] <SWPadnos> aha!!
[21:46:26] <fenn> meddling children
[21:46:40] <fenn> how am i supposed to lurk in peace?
[21:46:55] <SWPadnos> leave out the leading space?
[21:47:20] <fenn> stupid sourceforge won't load in konqueror at all, but works fine in firefox and elinks
[21:47:34] <fenn> why can't people just write html anymore?
[21:47:35] <SWPadnos> it's all those flash ads
[21:47:41] <fenn> flash ads?
[21:47:47] <fenn> that's pretty low
[21:47:59] <fenn> i have ads turned off by default :P
[21:48:02] <SWPadnos> SF was changed in the last day or so - has lots of shiny new advertising
[21:48:32] <fenn> maybe they will use the money to buy some decent cvs servers
[21:48:41] <SWPadnos> that would be nice
[21:49:08] <SWPadnos> actually, anyone know what kind of CPU and memory are needed for a CVS / SVN server?
[21:49:17] <fenn> practically nothing i'd assume
[21:49:20] <SWPadnos> I'd imagine not a lot
[21:49:28] <fenn> less than an email server
[21:49:36] <Jymmm> gotta pay for all that bandwidth somehow
[21:49:50] <fenn> it's not like they actually host any files
[21:49:55] <SWPadnos> my old company has an old PPro-200, 64 or 256M machine, and I think ot would work OK
[21:50:47] <fenn> for emc only right?
[21:51:22] <SWPadnos> no
[21:51:36] <SWPadnos> internal projects
[21:53:36] <fenn> well, it's past my bedtime i think
[21:53:44] <fenn> * fenn passes out
[21:53:46] <fenn> afk
[21:53:48] <fenn> erf
[21:53:56] <fenn> all those years of mudding
[21:54:01] <SWPadnos> up since yesterday?
[21:54:16] <fenn> i'm not on a diurnal cycle
[21:54:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:55:03] <SWPadnos> I was going to say - it should be a little earlier for you than for me :)
[21:55:08] <alex_joni_> GOT IT
[21:55:17] <SWPadnos> ah
[21:55:32] <alex_joni_> it's a nice BUG
[21:55:41] <SWPadnos> kewl
[21:55:46] <alex_joni_> yup
[21:55:47] <SWPadnos> SQUASH!
[21:55:51] <alex_joni_> hard to catch
[21:55:55] <rayh_emc2> stomp it quick and watch the splatter.
[21:55:59] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ now thinks how to make it go away..
[21:56:06] <SWPadnos> what is it?
[21:56:07] <alex_joni_> not that easy to kill it easily
[21:56:12] <alex_joni_> it's a feature
[21:56:19] <SWPadnos> oh - one of those bugs
[21:56:20] <alex_joni_> added not long ago :)
[21:56:29] <rayh_emc2> call the tool break feature?
[21:56:35] <alex_joni_> current position = position_feedback
[21:56:36] <SWPadnos> *cough* motion enable pins *cough*
[21:56:46] <alex_joni_> during motion_disable
[21:57:01] <alex_joni_> so as not to have ferrors on coming out of motion_disable
[21:57:05] <rayh_emc2> we got us a race
[21:57:11] <alex_joni_> yup..
[21:57:13] <SWPadnos> "tool strength testing"
[21:57:23] <alex_joni_> because somehow feedback is a bit bigger
[21:57:25] <rayh_emc2> that's a nice name
[21:58:18] <SWPadnos> but there is another underlying problem, in that the step generator shouldn't be outputting steps when the machine is off
[21:58:28] <SWPadnos> regardless of what it is asked to do
[21:59:10] <rayh_emc2> I'm not able to get interp_test_sub.ngc or interp_test_if.ngc to run here.
[21:59:11] <alex_joni_> yes .. but let me finish this first
[21:59:17] <SWPadnos> sorry
[21:59:25] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: can you guide rayh
[21:59:31] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ plunges back into motion
[21:59:41] <SWPadnos> what errors do you get, ray?
[21:59:44] <rayh_emc2> error says something about out of range even though the actual command seems well within.
[21:59:59] <SWPadnos> right - position 38 is out of range or some such
[22:00:31] <rayh_emc2> s'pose the real answr is to understand lerman g-coding
[22:00:42] <SWPadnos> I just increased the axis limits to +- 100 to get around that :)
[22:00:57] <rayh_emc2> Did you get around it?
[22:01:11] <SWPadnos> yes, increasing the axis limits worked
[22:01:13] <rayh_emc2> Looked to me like it was commanding about 4.0000 inches.
[22:01:37] <SWPadnos> yes - X=0.4, Y=0, Z=4 at the end of the move
[22:01:50] <SWPadnos> I don't know what happens in the middle
[22:01:52] <rayh_emc2> Why would that be out of range.
[22:02:03] <SWPadnos> looping presents an interesting problem for the GUI, by the way
[22:02:13] <SWPadnos> when you step, does it go one loop, or one line?
[22:02:15] <rayh_emc2> look ahead was seeing a big number?
[22:02:21] <SWPadnos> wae with subs
[22:02:24] <SWPadnos> same, I mean
[22:02:33] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure where that large number came from
[22:02:41] <SWPadnos> (and I can't check right now :(
[22:02:43] <SWPadnos> )
[22:03:01] <rayh_emc2> I didn't see a large number but will set the soft limits lrger.
[22:03:22] <SWPadnos> the error I got had "38 out of range" in it - that's where I got the limit idea
[22:03:39] <SWPadnos> I don't remember the rest of the error text
[22:06:09] <SWPadnos> it looks like the beginning % isn't counted as a line
[22:06:50] <SWPadnos> I think the errors were on line 12, and the earlier errors were actually on the first o line, which is line 13
[22:07:28] <SWPadnos> hi Alex, nice of you to join us
[22:07:36] <alex_joni> darn .. :)
[22:07:37] <rayh_emc2> Right that's the same number I got. Don't see why though when it is moving well within range.
[22:07:43] <Jacky^> alex_joni: ahhh
[22:07:45] <alex_joni> getting crowded in here
[22:07:48] <Jacky^> dman dialup
[22:07:55] <Jacky^> damn
[22:07:57] <SWPadnos> /boot alex_joni_
[22:08:00] <SWPadnos> :)
[22:08:22] <SWPadnos> actually, /boot *_
[22:09:22] <alex_joni> try /root
[22:09:49] <SWPadnos> root, boot, what's the difference? ;)
[22:10:04] <rayh_emc2> I wonder if lerman has protected us from xxx/0
[22:10:05] <SWPadnos> gah - stupid text-mode debian configuration
[22:13:09] <SWPadnos> the really strange thing is, I can't see anywhere that the "3" in 38 could have come from
[22:13:53] <SWPadnos> ray - was that error in test_loop, or in test_if?
[22:25:29] <rayh_emc2> both act about the same.
[22:25:41] <alex_joni> strangest thing..
[22:25:49] <alex_joni> with sim.ini it's not happening :(
[22:26:34] <rayh_emc2> does sim set up the stepping stuff?
[22:26:59] <alex_joni> right.. stepgen is out of the way
[22:31:32] <lerman> All of the test programs have a last step:
[22:31:34] <lerman> g0 to some x, y, z. The location that it goes to tells whether the test passed or failed. Those programs are NOT for use with a real machine. If you look at the comment at the beginning (and duplicated at the end), it will show what the values of X, Y, Z should be on success.
[22:31:35] <lerman> The reason it does this is because there is no way that I know of to actually print a value in a message.
[22:32:36] <SWPadnos> the odd thing is that before getting to the end, an error will sometimes pop up, saying that something is out of limits
[22:33:09] <SWPadnos> I got an error that said (something like) "38 is out of range"
[22:33:22] <SWPadnos> changed the axis limits to +- 100, and that problem went away
[22:33:48] <SWPadnos> I just didn't see where the 38 came from in the first place (though I may have been loking at the wrong test file)
[22:34:04] <lerman> Doesn't sound like the message comes from the interpreter.
[22:34:39] <SWPadnos> no - it's from motion, getting some command to move out of bounds (that's my assumption anyway)
[22:40:15] <SWPadnos> if only I could get past the upgrade of readline :(
[22:42:11] <rayh_emc2> testing with debug = 0x00000100 here (interp)
[22:42:21] <lerman> Test 'if' is very different from test 'loop'. Test loop does some intermediate g0 commands. The final x value is calculated as the result of four different tests. There is an intermediate value of x that is the result of three tests. Don't ask me why I did that. I was enjoying the sun in the Virgin Islands at the time I wrote it. Too much sun, maybe.
[22:43:05] <SWPadnos> heh - no problem there. I was probably confused by my own forgetfulness
[22:47:09] <rayh_emc2> Now it sub.ngc seems to run without kicking up the error
[22:48:01] <rayh_emc2> and I did set my limits back to 10
[22:53:41] <alex_joni> guys.. hold your breath
[22:54:13] <rayh> ... I'm going white here...
[22:54:20] <SWPadnos> ... purple ...
[22:54:55] <SWPadnos> ... thud ...
[22:54:59] <anonimasu> *stops changing color at all*
[22:55:07] <alex_joni> ok.. you can breath again
[22:55:16] <SWPadnos> woooooooosh
[22:55:24] <SWPadnos> why did we do that?
[22:56:11] <alex_joni> just for the kicks
[22:56:24] <SWPadnos> ok - thanks
[22:56:36] <alex_joni> lots cheaper than dope
[22:56:46] <rayh_emc2> lerman: I can't get the error messages to show at all now.
[22:57:34] <alex_joni> ok.. this seems to be working properly now
[22:57:37] <alex_joni> commiting soon
[22:57:39] <alex_joni> cleaning up
[22:57:53] <alex_joni> rayh_emc2: I'll clean up step_cl.hal aswell, if you don't mind
[22:58:01] <lerman> Is that good? Does that mean there is no error?
[22:58:06] <alex_joni> no need to duplicate the stuff from core_stepper.hal
[22:58:11] <lerman> What changed?
[22:58:14] <rayh_emc2> No problem. I've got to start all over in there.
[22:58:16] <alex_joni> lerman: I'm hunting a bug..
[22:58:38] <alex_joni> rayh_emc2: it'll still run, but emc will include both core_stepper.hal and step_cl.hal
[22:58:47] <alex_joni> lerman: motion related
[22:58:58] <alex_joni> lerman: have been.. :) *g*
[22:59:56] <SWPadnos> are you guys talking about the same thing?
[23:00:01] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos doesn't think so :)
[23:00:02] <alex_joni> no..
[23:00:05] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos doesn't think so :)
[23:00:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was away till just now
[23:00:32] <alex_joni> lerman:
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=106744&aid=1357555&group_id=6744
[23:01:50] <lerman> I read it.
[23:02:46] <rayh_emc2> lerman: Both SWP and I saw some sort of "out of range" message coming from two of your g-code examples.
[23:02:58] <CIA-5> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c: added an enable pin to stepgen, as response to bug #1357555. this should keep the position unchanged during disable
[23:04:23] <lerman> Did you try those examples with a sim or a real machine? The 'examples' were tests that I wrote to be used with a simulated machine.
[23:04:39] <CIA-5> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/core_sim.hal: fixed a typo
[23:04:46] <rayh_emc2> real
[23:05:06] <rayh_emc2> but I don't see how that would make a difference
[23:05:35] <CIA-5> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/core_stepper.hal: added signals for stepgen.x.enable
[23:05:53] <lerman> Well, a real machine has real limits. A simulated machine could/should have much larger limits. (Or be effectively unlimited).
[23:06:04] <rayh_emc2> alex_joni: When you get the time could you explain why it has to load both hal files
[23:06:40] <alex_joni> rayh_emc2: it's unlikely to change the stuff for core_stepper
[23:06:41] <rayh_emc2> But all of the commanded positions were clearly inside the work envelope of my basement.
[23:06:53] <alex_joni> and having that in two files duplicated is plain dull
[23:07:12] <CIA-5> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/step_cl.ini: included core_stepper aswell, not to duplicate the code
[23:07:26] <rayh_emc2> so I could override your choice if I choose?
[23:07:47] <lerman> So, if the positions were inside the envelope, the problem must be outside of interp. (If the glove don't fit, you must acquit.)
[23:08:25] <CIA-5> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/step_cl.hal: removed duplicated code, it's in core_stepper
[23:09:05] <rayh_emc2> I'd still point at the new interp stuff. The only way I'd get those kinds of errors before was if the code I was running tried to drive an axis outside the ini limits.
[23:09:51] <rayh_emc2> And why would we have to raise the ini limits to 100 when the largest commanded offset was about 4
[23:09:58] <alex_joni> can you guys cvs up and test?
[23:10:01] <lerman> But didn't you just say that the values were inside the limits?
[23:10:02] <alex_joni> on HEAD
[23:10:53] <rayh_emc2> The final computed values are inside the limits
[23:11:02] <rayh_emc2> something between was outside.
[23:11:20] <rayh_emc2> that's why I was thinking of a NAN.
[23:11:35] <lerman> Ah... That could be. Particularly for the loop test.
[23:11:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has a friend called Nan
[23:11:51] <alex_joni> :D
[23:12:22] <lerman> I don't check for NAN -- I haven't changed that code at all.
[23:13:27] <rayh_emc2> Do you check for the validity of the code that the interp is trying to run?
[23:14:24] <lerman> Check in what sense?
[23:18:18] <lerman> In general, the interp looks at one line at a time and executes it. So, if we are not in a function, it will generate an error if we attempt to do a return. But, in general there is little checking done, and some things that don't really make sense will execute without error. A while without an endwhile will just run off the end of the file and terminate. Off hand, I don't know if it will...
[23:18:20] <lerman> ...generate an error, but I suspect NOT.
[23:23:54] <lerman> Gotta go. CU.
[23:23:57] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: still there?
[23:27:49] <tbl> hey ray are you still on the uper dialup?
[23:33:51] <alex_joni> rayh: you still around?
[23:33:56] <alex_joni> rayh_emc2: you still around?
[23:39:11] <alex_joni> anyone?
[23:42:39] <anonimasu> yes
[23:42:51] <alex_joni> you're running emc2?
[23:43:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs to go to bed
[23:43:30] <alex_joni> really tired..
[23:43:58] <alex_joni> night all
[23:44:04] <SWPadnos> sorry - I'm back now
[23:44:31] <SWPadnos> ohwell - just seconds too late
[23:44:53] <anonimasu> no
