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[00:29:07] <Jymmm> wheres that bastard les!!!
[00:33:42] <anonimasu> gone
[00:34:43] <Jymmm> Got my 1/4 to 1/8 adapter in today... tossed in a 1/8 downcut rotozip bit.... sweet!
[00:34:53] <anonimasu> ?
[00:35:01] <Jymmm> collet adapter
[00:35:12] <anonimasu> what is rotozip?
[00:35:50] <Jymmm> rotozip.com
[00:36:02] <Jymmm> its like a heavy duty dremel
[00:36:21] <anonimasu> hm ok
[00:37:12] <Jymmm> the bits cut anything.... drywall, wood, marble, tile, etc
[00:37:37] <anonimasu> ok
[00:37:53] <Jymmm> so instead of trying to cut a hole in ceramic tile to fit around a faucet opening you use a rotozip tool
[00:38:06] <Jymmm> they call is a spiral saw
[00:38:13] <Jymmm> s/isit/
[00:38:16] <Jymmm> bah
[00:38:33] <cncuser> hidiho
[00:38:35] <Jymmm> anonimasu
http://www.rotozip.com/toolsinaction.aspx
[00:39:48] <Jymmm> anonimasu:
http://www.rotozip.com/idealapplications.aspx
[00:41:42] <cncuser> nice jymmm
[00:41:52] <cncuser> i get on of these within the next 2 weeks
[00:42:31] <cncuser> http://www.step-four.at/ ... basic 540 power package
[00:42:35] <Jymmm> cncuser: I dont have one of those, I'm using a collet adapter in a regular sized router and using their bits.
[00:43:05] <cncuser> a3 pcb and alu milling....
[00:45:07] <Jymmm> I wish they had larger photos
[00:45:07] <cncuser> but for wood, i could think of putting this on a cnc :)
[00:46:52] <cncuser> anyone got a clou on cooling aluminium milling ?
[00:47:01] <Jymmm> coolant =)
[00:47:04] <cncuser> haha
[00:47:12] <cncuser> petroleum or silicone ?
[00:47:14] <cncuser> :)
[00:47:16] <Jymmm> water
[00:47:20] <anonimasu> yes
[00:47:21] <Jymmm> water based
[00:47:23] <cncuser> not really ?
[00:47:29] <anonimasu> what?
[00:47:30] <cncuser> some emulsion
[00:47:36] <anonimasu> water based works nicely
[00:47:43] <cradek> I like "alumicut" but I only apply it by hand
[00:47:47] <anonimasu> but wd40 rocks ;)
[00:47:47] <cncuser> hmm, ok
[00:48:25] <cncuser> hmm, so some small pump will do
[00:48:48] <cncuser> what speeds is necessary ?
[00:49:25] <cncuser> i get it equipet with a 30000 rp/m spindle
[00:50:11] <anonimasu> cncuser: the question is what torque you will have at a suitable rpm
[00:50:14] <cncuser> any suggestions on the possible speed improvements when doing vertical moves if i use a faster spindle ?
[00:50:57] <cradek> faster than 30k??
[00:51:20] <cncuser> cradek: dunno
[00:52:14] <cncuser> i dont know where to put it right now, i heard it in action and its damn unloerateable for my livingroom :)
[00:53:04] <cncuser> pcbmilling is sirather silent, but aluminium is really squeacky
[00:54:41] <cncuser> ok, thanks, ill dream about easy water cooled milling tonight.
[00:54:45] <cncuser> have a good one
[00:54:48] <cncuser> brz
[01:08:02] <dmess> any one want candy....my kids are back/// ; )
[02:17:07] <Jymmm> dmess: I'll take the candy that you can pickup with a magnet
[03:13:43] <fenn> hey ValarQ you don't have to make crapahalic pretty just commit it!
[04:44:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Jesus, skype takes a lot of mem.
[04:50:43] <Jymmm> 4MB idel
[04:50:46] <Jymmm> idle
[05:30:46] <CIA-6> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (9 files in 8 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Tue Nov 1 05:30:02 GMT 2005 "
[07:06:30] <anonimasu> night
[07:06:33] <anonimasu> *leaves for england*
[08:58:21] <K`zan> Night all
[10:27:50] <cncuser> hello again
[10:33:22] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[10:37:35] <cncuser> hi jepler
[10:38:05] <cncuser> jepler: i messaget you abunch of lines...
[10:38:24] <cncuser> jepler: now seen that ... Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems,
[10:39:45] <cncuser> jepler: thank you for sending the patch. i allready applied and am about to start install now :)
[10:39:46] <cncuser> export PLAT=/root/cnc/realtime ; export EMCROOT=/root/cnc/emc2 ; python setup.py install
[10:39:46] <cncuser> Traceback (most recent call last):
[10:39:46] <cncuser> File "setup.py", line 164, in ?
[10:39:46] <cncuser> emcplat = os.getenv("PLAT", find_emc_plat(emcroot))
[10:39:46] <cncuser> File "setup/emc_setup.py", line 29, in find_emc_plat
[10:39:48] <cncuser> for plat in ['nonrealtime'] + os.listdir(emcplatdir):
[10:39:50] <cncuser> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/root/cnc/emc2/emc/plat'
[10:39:52] <cncuser> i neither have a emc subdir nor a platdir within a emc2 dir (not the sourcedir, not the installed)
[10:42:13] <cncuser> do i need the:
http://axis.unpythonic.net/index.cgi-files/downloads/01118085613/axis-emc2.patch
[10:42:15] <cncuser> ?
[10:42:40] <cncuser> i use axis-20051029
[10:45:00] <cncuser> integrate emc2 support
[10:45:00] <cncuser> setup.py should autodetect emc1 vs emc2
[10:45:06] <cncuser> hmm, ok, something else
[10:48:13] <cncuser> good morning alex_joni :)
[10:48:22] <alex_joni> heh.. good day
[10:48:26] <alex_joni> morning is long gone
[10:48:59] <cncuser> alex_joni: jepler wrote his own openglstuff : nomore pyopengl !!
[10:49:10] <cncuser> alex_joni: i stood up an hour ago
[10:49:14] <alex_joni> he did?
[10:49:19] <alex_joni> of course he did
[10:49:20] <alex_joni> :)
[10:51:05] <alex_joni> ain't he a sweety :)
[10:53:57] <cncuser> absolutely :)
[12:44:46] <robydeb> http://digilander.libero.it/informatico2003
[12:57:22] <jepler> darnit, I missed cncuser again
[12:57:32] <jepler> must have something to do with him being on the opposite side of the globe
[13:02:38] <cradek> good morning
[13:03:28] <jepler> hi chris
[13:18:37] <alex_joni> hello guys
[13:18:50] <alex_joni> he was in earlier, anything in particular to transmit to him?
[13:31:09] <Imperator_> Hi all
[13:32:14] <alex_joni> hello
[13:34:57] <jepler> alex_joni: clearly there's something weird about his directory structure that my setup.py didn't anticipate .. but I can't yet tell what ..
[13:35:32] <alex_joni> your setup.py regarding axis?
[13:35:48] <alex_joni> I figured that out with him.. he had a clean emc2 (no include/ and lib/ dir)
[13:36:11] <alex_joni> emc2 containing only binaries.. so axis obviously failed to compile :)
[13:36:53] <alex_joni> but there's a point I wondered about: in emcmodule.cc you have a line:
[13:37:00] <alex_joni> {"estop_in", T_INT, O(io.aux.estopIn), READONLY},
[13:37:09] <alex_joni> io.aux.estopIn doesn't exist in emc2
[13:37:21] <alex_joni> commenting that line makes it work though
[13:51:29] <cradek> alex_joni: is that a new change?
[13:51:40] <alex_joni> nope.. it's been like that in emc2
[13:51:54] <cradek> but emcmodule.cc has always built on emc2
[13:51:58] <alex_joni> probably new in emc2?
[13:52:21] <alex_joni> errr. axis
[13:52:37] <alex_joni> I mean.. I'm up to my head in paperwork.. find it hard to concentrate
[13:52:38] <cradek> neither of us has touched emcmodule for a long time
[13:52:49] <alex_joni> hmm.. then I don't know :(
[13:52:52] <cradek> you think that's bad, there's a glowing orb in the sky here
[13:53:10] <alex_joni> and it wasnt before?
[13:53:14] <cradek> nope (we just went off summer time this weekend)
[13:53:23] <alex_joni> ahh.. same here
[13:53:31] <alex_joni> but only 1h, right?
[13:53:34] <cradek> right
[13:53:41] <alex_joni> that's sleepable
[13:53:42] <alex_joni> :D
[14:37:17] <alex_joni> I'll try tonight to compile an recent axis on emc2
[14:40:12] <jepler> estop_in is from the very first revision of emcmodule.cc ever checked in
[14:40:27] <alex_joni> strange I never got an error about that
[14:40:33] <alex_joni> cncuser reported he has
[14:55:01] <alex_joni> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/09/16/bofh_2005_episode_28/
[15:41:02] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[15:54:07] <jepler> it looks like the removal of estopIn in emc2 was fairly recent.
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/emcsh.cc?r1=1.13&r2=1.14
[15:56:41] <jepler> changes to support HALified ESTOP logic - estop can be routed thru classic ladder or other logic, optionally latched to permit the use of momentary estop switches, etc.
[15:56:46] <jepler> </log message>
[16:57:47] <alex_joni> hello people
[17:01:40] <jepler> hi again alex
[17:02:04] <alex_joni> hey jeff
[17:05:49] <rayh> Hi alex.
[17:06:00] <alex_joni> hey ray, what's up?
[17:07:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is coding hal files for the stg
[17:07:40] <alex_joni> trying to keep the same pinout as on emc1
[17:10:14] <rayh> Great stuff.
[17:10:55] <rayh> how would you refer to an input pin on parport 0.
[17:11:55] <rayh> if you were using the HAL stepper stuff
[17:12:15] <alex_joni> parport.0.pin-xx-in
[17:12:20] <alex_joni> you need the proper pn number
[17:12:24] <alex_joni> pin
[17:13:15] <rayh> Real pin number on a parport connector.
[17:13:20] <rayh> ??
[17:13:26] <alex_joni> yes
[17:14:39] <rayh> okay so 15 for s3
[17:14:57] <alex_joni> yup
[17:15:04] <Jymmm> wth is s3?
[17:15:18] <alex_joni> Jymmm: read the parport documentation
[17:15:31] <Jymmm> wth is s3?
[17:15:58] <rayh> The input pins on a parport are named s3-s7
[17:16:06] <Jymmm> ewwwwwwwwww
[17:16:15] <Jymmm> signal names are icky
[17:16:25] <rayh> Right.
[17:16:59] <alex_joni> you have D0-7, C0-3 and S3-7 iirc
[17:17:48] <Jymmm> signal names should be on schematics, not wiring diagrams imo
[17:18:17] <alex_joni> well... they are called like that
[17:18:55] <Jymmm> but when your sitting there with a screwdriver/soldering iron you really dont care about singal names.
[17:19:10] <Jymmm> "Just gimme the dman pin number!" =)
[17:19:52] <alex_joni> 15
[17:19:58] <Jymmm> ty
[17:22:21] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[17:32:03] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is now known as the artist formly known as Jymmm
[17:32:13] <alex_joni> :P
[17:32:29] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is now known as the coder formerly known as alex_joni
[17:40:01] <rayh> * rayh gets a headache trying to remember all these names.
[17:40:27] <alex_joni> want smthg to remember?
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 00 X home sw P1/47
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 01 X +lim sw P1/45
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 02 X -lim sw P1/43
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 03 X amp fault P1/41
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 04 Y home sw P1/39
[17:40:30] <alex_joni> 05 Y +lim sw P1/37
[17:40:33] <alex_joni> 06 Y -lim sw P1/35
[17:40:34] <alex_joni> 07 Y amp fault P1/33
[17:40:36] <alex_joni> 08 Z home sw P1/31
[17:40:40] <alex_joni> 09 Z +lim sw P1/29
[17:40:40] <alex_joni> 10 Z -lim sw P1/27
[17:40:42] <alex_joni> :P
[17:40:44] <alex_joni> just kidding :)
[17:41:26] <rayh> should I assume that motmod with steppers handles limits, homes, and probe as freqmod does.
[17:41:55] <alex_joni> whatever that way would be
[17:41:58] <alex_joni> I think so :)
[17:42:03] <rayh> k
[17:43:45] <rayh> * rayh note to self. start cl display using sudo
[17:44:03] <rayh> and shut it down before closing emc.
[17:44:14] <alex_joni> what happens if not?
[17:45:22] <rayh> if not sudo the display will not save changed files
[17:45:43] <rayh> if emc shutdown before cl display, cleanup fails.
[17:45:55] <rayh> bunches of rt modules left in kernel.
[17:45:59] <alex_joni> emc should bring cl down with it
[17:46:06] <alex_joni> I'll look at that.. soon
[17:46:17] <rayh> I'm sure it will if the display is not also connected.
[17:47:20] <rayh> The hal file called loadusr -w bin/classicladder --nogui configs/step_cl.clp
[17:47:33] <rayh> I suspect that it we removed the --nogui
[17:47:34] <cncuser> hi again
[17:47:38] <rayh> it would do it right.
[17:47:43] <alex_joni> try it :)
[17:47:43] <rayh> Hey.
[17:47:47] <cncuser> dont trust intel cpucoolers !
[17:47:50] <alex_joni> hello cncuser
[17:47:58] <alex_joni> they are rotten..
[17:47:59] <cncuser> hi alex_joni
[17:48:00] <alex_joni> we know
[17:48:02] <cncuser> yeap
[17:48:31] <cncuser> it came for free with the cpu, lasted 1 1/2 years
[17:48:42] <alex_joni> seems reasonable
[17:48:57] <cncuser> hmm
[17:49:01] <alex_joni> jepler: you wanted to speak to cncuser
[17:49:34] <jepler> hi cncuser
[17:49:40] <cncuser> jo, hi jepler :)
[17:49:56] <jepler> any luck with axis yet
[17:49:57] <jepler> ?
[17:50:00] <cncuser> jepler: cool move to make the pyopengl dependency dissapear :)
[17:50:11] <rayh> alex_joni: NOPE. The cl display comes up but doesn't show tkemc.
[17:50:18] <cncuser> jepler: gonna try in a minute, just came back from a friend who lent me a fan
[17:50:34] <rayh> Then when you shut down cl display, tkemc comes up.
[17:50:50] <jepler> rayh: needs to run in the background?
[17:50:50] <alex_joni> hmmm, strange
[17:50:51] <rayh> I guess we need to spawn a second x something or other.
[17:51:08] <alex_joni> it needs an & at the end
[17:51:20] <alex_joni> but not inside the hal file, that won't do anything good
[17:51:23] <jepler> cncuser: OK. That line about estopIn in emcmodule.cc can be safely removed, it shouldn't affect how axis functions.
[17:51:34] <cncuser> jepler: done that
[17:51:35] <jepler> cncuser: I guess estopIn was recently removed from emc2
[17:51:47] <jepler> cncuser: what was the next build problem you ran into?
[17:51:55] <cncuser> c++: /root/cnc/emc2/src/.tmp/rs274.o: No such file or directory
[17:51:55] <cncuser> error: command 'c++' failed with exit status 1
[17:52:04] <cncuser> i have no rs274.o
[17:52:33] <jepler> that should be created by building emc2
[17:52:44] <alex_joni> jepler: let me greb an axis, and see on emc2
[17:52:55] <cncuser> hmm, i built emc2, no errors i remember, no rs274
[17:52:56] <alex_joni> I freshly compiled an emc2
[17:53:11] <alex_joni> actually.. still compiling :)
[17:53:44] <jepler> does emc2 have a simulator mode yet, with no realtime component? then I can start making sure axis builds on emc2 from day to day...
[17:53:48] <alex_joni> yes there is (rs274.o)
[17:54:01] <alex_joni> jepler: nope :(
[17:54:03] <cncuser> hmm, then my built is somewho...hmm...fucked up
[17:54:08] <jepler> alex_joni: is it in the same location (.../src/.tmp/rs274.o)?
[17:54:10] <alex_joni> maybe you're eager to add it..
[17:54:13] <alex_joni> jepler: yes
[17:54:26] <jepler> cncuser: are there other .o files in emc2/src/.tmp?
[17:54:27] <alex_joni> emc2/src/.tmp/rs274.o
[17:54:41] <alex_joni> I have 113 files (12MB about)
[17:55:04] <cncuser> upsi :)
[17:55:10] <cncuser> ok, got them all :)
[17:55:29] <alex_joni> :P ... and then he blames the developers
[17:55:43] <jepler> that's ok as long as you mean "the EMC2 developers"
[17:55:52] <cncuser> well, .tmp, stupid dir name to keep something ;)
[17:56:05] <alex_joni> it's a temp dir..
[17:56:14] <alex_joni> jepler: in this case he blamed them both
[17:56:23] <cncuser> i blame all and everything :)
[17:56:27] <alex_joni> we should join forces to punish him for that
[17:56:28] <alex_joni> :D
[17:56:38] <cncuser> *hiding*
[17:57:01] <alex_joni> * alex_joni takes a big C++ funtion (for instance emcFormat)
[17:57:08] <alex_joni> you'd better run..
[17:57:13] <cncuser> ok, ell, it expects to have the build and rundir at the same place
[17:57:20] <cncuser> or wild symlinking is necessary
[17:57:40] <alex_joni> once AXIS is built you can move it around
[17:57:55] <cncuser> alex_joni: shure
[17:58:19] <cncuser> hmm, i guess i have to use unionfs for the develenv
[17:58:34] <jepler> this is about where it installs "axis" and "emctop" scripts?
[17:58:52] <jepler> just change the directory set in this line:
[17:58:52] <jepler> distutils.command.install.INSTALL_SCHEMES['unix_prefix']['scripts'] = \
[17:58:52] <jepler> "%s/bin" % (emcroot)
[17:58:55] <jepler> of setup.py
[17:59:42] <cncuser> finished building :)
[17:59:42] <rayh> cncuser: I see that the cd burning program is missing in puppy emc.
[17:59:58] <jepler> that's exciting!
[18:00:02] <cncuser> rayh: upsi, ok, noted that. the remaster should work :)
[18:00:11] <jepler> now to find out if it actually works on a machine that never had pyopengl installed...
[18:00:19] <cncuser> haha
[18:00:28] <cncuser> ill see in a few seconds
[18:00:46] <rayh> The other thing I saw was that there was no dialer program for modem.
[18:00:59] <rayh> It will find the modem and make the simlink
[18:01:00] <alex_joni> rayh: cd burning ? on a 30MB distro?
[18:01:19] <rayh> puppy uses gcombust to rebuild itself.
[18:01:32] <alex_joni> sounds dangerous :D
[18:01:45] <rayh> fire and smoke all over the place.
[18:02:00] <rayh> you think you need a cpu fan.
[18:02:12] <rayh> I need a halon unit.
[18:02:43] <Jymmm> rayh you get a shovel.... deal with it!
[18:03:30] <rayh> lofl
[18:03:48] <jepler> cncuser: I'm about to go for lunch .. I'll be back in around 1 hour or so.
[18:03:51] <rayh> I see that we have major conflicts in machine logic in the stepper systems.
[18:03:56] <jepler> cncuser: I hope you have some good results to report by then
[18:04:42] <alex_joni> rayh: how so?
[18:04:50] <Jymmm> rayh: at least the shovel is madee out of magnesium so it's light weight when your firefighting =)
[18:05:08] <rayh> motmod aparently echos estop into status along with many of the other variables.
[18:05:17] <rayh> like mist, flood and such.
[18:05:52] <rayh> Now wait. perhaps it is because minimillio is running.
[18:06:03] <rayh> let me look.
[18:06:40] <cncuser> where does axis put its script ?
[18:07:12] <rayh> don't see any reference to it in the ini.
[18:15:49] <rayh> fascinating! If I comment out the estop loopback in standard-pinout.hal
[18:16:10] <alex_joni> it won't work :)
[18:16:15] <rayh> emc comes up with estop off and ready to go.
[18:16:24] <alex_joni> it does?
[18:16:34] <alex_joni> hmm.. not very good
[18:17:01] <rayh> so what the loopback does is say "oh estop is on so set it's state to on."
[18:17:12] <alex_joni> right
[18:17:22] <alex_joni> and if you hit F1 it should go into estop-reset
[18:17:29] <alex_joni> and state=estop-reset
[18:17:42] <rayh> It comes up in estop-reset
[18:17:48] <alex_joni> it does?
[18:17:56] <rayh> yup.
[18:18:01] <alex_joni> after you removed the link back?
[18:18:09] <rayh> yep
[18:18:09] <alex_joni> didn't try that...
[18:18:34] <alex_joni> will try tonight..
[18:18:38] <rayh> let me try something.
[18:18:47] <alex_joni> commiting what I worked so far, gotta go away for a while
[18:19:16] <rayh> catch you later.
[18:19:33] <rayh> reset does not turn estop state to on.
[18:19:45] <alex_joni> no.. it should turn it to off
[18:20:05] <alex_joni> estopOut=1 means estop activated
[18:20:17] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/motenc_io.hal: changed the name of the spindle brake pin
[18:21:52] <CIA-6> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/configs/ (stg_motion.hal stg_io.hal): added hal files for the stg servo board, use these together with core_servo.hal
[18:22:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni disappears for a while
[18:22:19] <alex_joni> later guys
[18:25:49] <rayh> We've just naturally got to do something about the definitions of estop signals.
[18:26:09] <rayh> estop off in tkemc means that emc is not seeing an estop.
[18:26:22] <rayh> while estop on means that it is seeing an estopped condition.
[18:26:46] <fenn> oh boy - "By the time I write to you next month, the SourceForge.net Enhancement
[18:26:46] <fenn> Team will have deployed a new look and feel..."
[18:27:29] <rayh> makes you start to dread "enhanced"
[18:27:55] <fenn> just look what happened then the "machine controller enhancement team" got a hold of MC
[18:29:04] <rayh> We should change our name
[18:29:08] <rayh> GLMC
[18:29:24] <fenn> "Good looking machine controller"?
[18:29:52] <rayh> only if if defaults to the axis gui. <g>
[18:30:06] <rayh> Great Little MC if it's puppy.
[18:30:47] <rayh> Go*&^%$#d Lousy MC if you are a mach lover.
[18:31:11] <fenn> there seems to be a lot of stuff out there in the mechatronics sector with the acronym "EMC" already
[18:31:32] <rayh> Yes. Not to mention the software storage company.
[18:33:32] <fenn> the devel list is hoppin today, can't even read it fast enough
[18:37:10] <rayh> guess I should get there before to long.
[18:50:05] <rayh> hey fenn. tell me how to start a new HAL thread.
[18:50:30] <rayh> I'm working from core_stepper
[18:51:16] <fenn> er, where is core_stepper? which hal file?
[18:51:29] <fenn> oop heh
[18:51:59] <rayh> configs/core_stepper.hal
[18:52:28] <rayh> and the # ladder logic is executed once all the inputs are read
[18:52:28] <rayh> addf classicladder.0.refresh servo-thread 7
[18:52:34] <rayh> oops.
[18:52:41] <rayh> standard_pinout.hal
[18:55:18] <fenn> this is weird.. none of the .hal files define any threads
[18:58:10] <rayh> i thought there was a parport read write thread in there.
[19:00:14] <fenn> bin/halcmd -f < configs/standard_pinout.hal
[19:00:14] <fenn> HAL: ERROR: thread 'base-thread' not found
[19:01:10] <fenn> is there some script that creates the threads? i cant even find the command to create a new thread
[19:01:12] <rayh> ah it's in standard_pinouts.hal
[19:04:28] <fenn> i just went through halcmd.c and there's no command to create a new thread.. i must be missing something
[19:10:23] <rayh> I pasted some stuff from mazak_rf and got cl to run anyway.
[19:10:37] <rayh> I'll get with jmk this evening and see what's going on.
[19:10:43] <rayh> with threads.
[19:10:59] <rayh> Thanks for looking.
[19:13:25] <fenn> is stepgen deprecated?
[19:14:06] <zwisk> good darth thread on the list...
[19:14:32] <fenn> yah nice to have some direction for once
[19:15:14] <rayh> No. I'm running it with the test stuff here.
[19:15:44] <fenn> looks like threads are called by hal_create_thread from any of the kernel modules
[19:15:48] <rayh> It'll run if you issue script/emc.run cause that is running both the files we were looking at above.
[19:15:52] <fenn> maybe that's why halcmd can't create a thread
[19:16:35] <rayh> ah. okay that would explain it.
[19:17:00] <rayh> looks like jmk is reading mail perhaps we should ask in an email.
[19:17:07] <fenn> heh
[19:18:08] <fenn> i wonder if swp makes $45-90/hr
[19:18:18] <fenn> i sure as hell don't, and won't
[19:18:58] <jepler> cncuser: it puts it in what it thinks is the non-realtime platform's binary directory. Something like $EMCROOT/plat/$EMCPLAT/bin/axis
[19:19:22] <cncuser> ic, thanks jeppler
[19:19:24] <cncuser> -p
[19:19:40] <jepler> cncuser: the directory is specified in setup.py by distutils.command.install.INSTALL_SCHEMES['unix_prefix']['scripts'] which I pasted earlier
[19:19:42] <jepler> [6~[6~~[6~[6~[6~[6~[6~
[19:19:44] <jepler> oops!
[19:19:46] <jepler> ~[6~[6~[6~~[6~[6~[6~[6~
[19:19:54] <cncuser> haha
[19:20:17] <cncuser> !reset
[19:20:18] <cncuser> ;)
[19:23:38] <rayh> fenn: question on the way to dev list.
[19:23:57] <fenn> thanks ray
[19:24:45] <rayh> got enough stuff running that I can see the hal threads working by stalling out the thunderbird progress bars.
[19:37:36] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[19:46:05] <rayh> Well. I've got cl running with the stepper stuff and am able to come out of estop.
[19:50:18] <Jymmm> cl or keystick?
[20:03:50] <fenn> Jymmm: cl = classicladder
[20:04:13] <Jymmm> oh
[20:04:18] <Jymmm> * Jymmm was thinking cli
[20:05:42] <rayh> click?
[20:05:57] <Jymmm> command line interface (a la shell)
[20:06:33] <fenn> check out what just rolled into the gas station by my house:
[20:06:45] <fenn> http://fenn.freeshell.org/camera/DCP_0587.JPG
[20:07:07] <Jymmm> PIMPKIN CHUNKIN !!!
[20:07:15] <Jymmm> PUMPKIN CHUNKIN
[20:07:40] <cncuser> whats that ?
[20:07:54] <Jymmm> fenn:
http://www.atbeach.com/punkinchunkin/
[20:08:11] <Jymmm> cncuser it's an air cannon for shooting pumpkins
[20:08:26] <cncuser> wtf
[20:08:27] <fenn> it shoots a pumpkin at 1000 mph and over a mile
[20:08:41] <Jymmm> cncuser: there's a video on that website
[20:09:34] <Jymmm> looks like a good design though... reenforced tube
[20:09:40] <Jymmm> tad short though.
[20:09:54] <fenn> http://www.aintalltherepumpkincannon.com/videos/index.htm
[20:11:49] <etla> anyone got experiences with pci servo cards ?
[20:14:12] <rayh> I've played with vital and mesa a bit.
[20:14:56] <etla> I'm building a servo system for the 400W motors I bought in the coming 6 months
[20:15:08] <rayh> k
[20:15:11] <etla> need to start to choose components
[20:15:43] <rayh> mesa makes a 2 axis pwm servo driver card that works with their 5I20 fpga card.
[20:15:46] <cncuser> etla: woow, what are you doing with such powerfull motors ?
[20:15:51] <etla> do any of the servo cards have pwm+dir as serco command outputs ?
[20:16:11] <rayh> not that I know of.
[20:16:14] <etla> cncuser: surpluscenter sold AC servos really cheap. I would have got the 1kW model but it sold out
[20:16:32] <cncuser> hmm
[20:16:35] <etla> rayh: ok, I'm working on a pic based servo amp
[20:16:37] <rayh> But it is a sercos signal into them.
[20:16:44] <cncuser> *looking at my toysteppers*
[20:17:05] <etla> seems kind of stupid to first take +/- 10V out of the card and then transform it to 0-5V and digitize at 10bit
[20:17:34] <rayh> the mesa is pwm and direction out. It is NOT sercos signal though.
[20:17:52] <rayh> Pico has pwm and direction out also.
[20:18:06] <rayh> from a parport
[20:18:16] <etla> but the pico encoder counter is rated at 300 000 pulses/s
[20:18:28] <etla> the servos are 3000 rpm with 8000puls/rev encoders
[20:18:44] <etla> what kind of standard is sercos ?
[20:19:35] <cncuser> jepler: do you need numeric ?
[20:19:53] <cncuser> jepler: numpy
[20:21:13] <fenn> you know it's a good standard when it's based on a typo
[20:21:32] <rayh> sercos is some sort of serial thing I think
[20:21:59] <rayh> okay forget that. you want pwm and direction out.
[20:23:07] <etla> the mesa card has that ?
[20:23:19] <rayh> yes it does.
[20:23:40] <etla> and it works with EMC?
[20:23:46] <rayh> emc2
[20:24:04] <Imperator_> Hi all
[20:24:06] <etla> great, I'll have to google for the specs and prices
[20:24:19] <rayh> four motion pwm outs, at least 6 encoder reads, and the rest are IO.
[20:24:25] <Imperator_> and i am working on some breakoutboards for the mesa card, for servo controll
[20:24:46] <Imperator_> www.mesanet.com
[20:24:56] <rayh> Fantastic. Martin. How is that project coming along?
[20:25:22] <Imperator_> I get the PCBs on the third this month
[20:25:40] <rayh> Great. I'm anxious to see them.
[20:25:54] <Imperator_> have to order the parts tomorrow, than i can solder it together on the weekend
[20:26:03] <rayh> I'll get my kid to send you the euros for one.
[20:26:46] <Imperator_> jep, but first it must run :-)
[20:27:10] <rayh> oh darn. that testing business.
[20:27:12] <Imperator_> I hope to move PID stuff also to the mesa card
[20:27:14] <etla> is the mesa stuff hanging off the PCI bus ?
[20:27:24] <Imperator_> jep
[20:27:34] <Imperator_> look for 5i20 i think
[20:27:39] <cncuser> jepler: are you online, i have some new erormessages
[20:27:42] <rayh> The fpga loads when emc starts.
[20:28:09] <rayh> All the code is at sourceforge in emc2.
[20:28:52] <cncuser> jepler: Using OpenGL.GL , File "/root/cnc/emc2/bin/axis , line 57 in: from OpenGL.GL import *
[20:29:03] <etla> you need a pci adapter to plug the pc/104 cards in a pc ?
[20:29:53] <etla> ok, now I found it 5I20... PCI card
[20:30:00] <cncuser> jepler: i now got: mesa, tcl, tk, python installed
[20:31:03] <cncuser> jepler: and glut
[20:35:05] <etla> any ideas on what kind of servo loop rates are doable with the mesa card ?
[20:41:41] <rayh> mesa does make a pc104 card like the 5I20
[20:42:07] <etla> yes, I was just confused as I did not find the PCI card at first
[20:42:15] <etla> seems like a low cost opensource solution
[20:42:30] <rayh> PaulC has one of the pc104 cards
[20:42:58] <etla> do you know what loop closure rates are doable ?
[20:43:02] <rayh> There were a few complaints that the hostmot software from mesa was not open source.
[20:43:22] <rayh> But Mesa was willing to help us do our thing with the sf stuff.
[20:43:48] <rayh> No I don't really.
[20:43:50] <etla> si it's not completely opensource ?
[20:43:54] <etla> so
[20:44:23] <Imperator_> Hi ALex
[20:44:44] <alex_joni> hello
[20:44:57] <Imperator_> etla: I don't have the exact speed handy, but it is extremly fast
[20:45:05] <rayh> I ran my little pittmans here at the default rate 1K
[20:45:06] <etla> rayh: in what module in the cvs would I find stuff for the mesa ?
[20:45:12] <rayh> didn't try any faster rates.
[20:45:25] <alex_joni> etla: emc2
[20:45:29] <rayh> under src/hal/ uh let me look.
[20:45:39] <jepler> cncuser: that means that 'import minigl' (the pyopengl replacement) failed for some reason.
[20:45:48] <jepler> cncuser: what does "python -c 'import minigl'" print?
[20:45:57] <Imperator_> alex_joni: servo loop inside the mesa card
[20:46:03] <rayh> drivers
[20:46:14] <etla> i see
[20:46:24] <alex_joni> Imperator_: what is?
[20:46:31] <cncuser> undefined symbol glPixelStorei
[20:46:38] <cncuser> hmm Storei ?
[20:47:22] <Imperator_> alex_joni: etla asked what servo rates can the mesa card do
[20:47:27] <jepler> NAME
[20:47:27] <jepler> glPixelStoref, glPixelStorei - set pixel storage modes
[20:47:45] <jepler> f and i give the type of the argument (float or int)
[20:47:52] <cncuser> jepler: hmm, an idea where that belongs to ?
[20:48:00] <jepler> it would be in libGL
[20:48:09] <cncuser> libGL ..hmmm
[20:48:28] <cncuser> pythonstuff or glut/mesa ?
[20:48:37] <alex_joni> rayh: still around?
[20:48:37] <jepler> mesa
[20:48:40] <alex_joni> fenn: or you?
[20:48:41] <cncuser> hmmm
[20:48:44] <cncuser> glxgears works ;)
[20:49:48] <jepler> glxgears probably doesn't use glPixelStorex
[20:51:38] <rayh> You bet. Still trying to hook up an external estop.
[20:51:47] <jepler> but it's comforting to know that glxgears does work
[20:52:00] <rayh> I got the sigs right in classic ladder.
[20:52:00] <alex_joni> rayh: you asked about threads earlier
[20:52:07] <rayh> Yes I did.
[20:52:13] <cncuser> jepler: yes, i was glad it did
[20:52:14] <alex_joni> those get created when you insmod a module
[20:52:28] <alex_joni> some modules have parameters called thread and fp_thread
[20:52:48] <alex_joni> if you give them some non-zero values, they will create and export hal_threads
[20:52:57] <jepler> cncuser: did mesa compile as a shared library?
[20:53:06] <cncuser> jepler: yes i think
[20:53:42] <jepler> find minigl.so (it is probably in .../lib/python2.x/site-packages) and "ldd minigl.so". Does it list the shared libGL that you expect it to?
[20:53:46] <rayh> Right now I can't see the pins on my parport.
[20:54:18] <rayh> IO_Exercise.tcl shows them working at 0x378 but I don't get any voltage.
[20:54:52] <alex_joni> hmm.. IO_Exercise works directly
[20:54:55] <alex_joni> with the parport
[20:55:10] <alex_joni> but if the hal parport is loaded, then maybe they both fight each other
[20:55:18] <cncuser> i found one in axis.../buid/lib.linux-i686-2.4/minigl.so
[20:56:02] <rayh> Oh sorry IO_Show.tcl
[20:56:18] <cncuser> hmm, minigl.so is only in axis
[20:56:18] <rayh> That one does not try to write anything.
[20:56:19] <cncuser> hmmm
[20:56:21] <cncuser> damit
[20:56:51] <cncuser> minigl should come from python or where ?
[20:57:33] <etla> Imerator: you are able to program the fpga on the 5I20 ?
[21:00:21] <cncuser> jepler: ok, it gets installed. my error.
[21:00:37] <cncuser> jepler: but... there is no linking against a GL
[21:01:00] <cncuser> jepler: libpthread, libc6 the usual
[21:01:02] <rayh> alex_joni: Let me commit the config stuff I'm working with. Then you can look at it.
[21:02:12] <alex_joni> ok.. no problem, maybe it'd be nice if you tell me what you're working on
[21:04:32] <rayh> This is a sample emc2 that uses cl and a single parport.
[21:04:46] <rayh> That way most any user can try out the combination.
[21:05:11] <rayh> see ladder working with HAL.
[21:05:21] <rayh> and fiddle with the logic.
[21:06:06] <etla> rayh: do you know if the fpga code for the 5I20 card is opensource also ?
[21:06:29] <rayh> I don't believe it is.
[21:06:52] <rayh> mesa's policy is that any of their code is free to use on their boards.
[21:06:53] <etla> ok... but the HAL driver is done and tested ?
[21:07:35] <alex_joni> rayh: nice (parport&cl)
[21:07:36] <etla> yes, there was a bunch of hex codes in a .h file... I assume thats the compiled code
[21:07:44] <rayh> I know that PeteV, the guy that wrote the EMC stuff for it and Mesa had an agreement that any of their stuff was "open" to us to use.
[21:08:16] <Yuga> does any one here know if les is still alive?
[21:08:16] <rayh> paul_c had some sort of issue still with something in there.
[21:11:09] <CIA-6> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/configs/ (step_cl.clp step_cl.hal step_cl.ini): first try at steppers and cl
[21:11:30] <alex_joni> rayh: this reminds me...
[21:11:39] <alex_joni> emc2/configs/ is a mess :D
[21:11:52] <alex_joni> looks very much like the old emc topdir
[21:12:07] <alex_joni> we need to come up with a system to sort the config files
[21:12:15] <alex_joni> maybe one dir / machine or setup
[21:12:49] <etla> stupid q time: can anyone explain what cl has to do with everything ??
[21:12:56] <rayh> Yes it is. But we didn't have much say in it.
[21:13:19] <alex_joni> etla: it's new, it's shiny, it's cool
[21:13:19] <alex_joni> you gotta have it :P
[21:13:26] <etla> yeah
[21:13:47] <etla> but as I undestand you emulate a real hw chip... why would you do that ?
[21:14:13] <rayh> What it emulates is a real PLC.
[21:14:21] <rayh> with a few notable exceptions.
[21:15:12] <rayh> If you have a running recent emc2 you can easily try it now.
[21:15:36] <rayh> From the emc2 directory issue the following command.
[21:16:13] <rayh> sudo scripts/emc.run step_cl.ini
[21:16:37] <rayh> That is an ordinary hal startup sort of thing.
[21:16:55] <etla> sorry I don't have emc2 or linux running now... but please explain why you would emulate a PLC
[21:16:55] <rayh> but it is running classicladder in the background as a rt process.
[21:17:07] <etla> unless you really do PLC development :o
[21:17:13] <alex_joni> etla: first you need to understand what a PLC is
[21:17:20] <alex_joni> and how it relates to machining centers
[21:17:20] <etla> yes.
[21:17:27] <rayh> Commercial machine tools expect ladder to handle their machine logic.
[21:17:27] <alex_joni> unlikely to be used on a minimill
[21:17:47] <alex_joni> explain ladder
[21:17:50] <rayh> Oh I disagree with the minimill idea.
[21:18:05] <rayh> I plan to sell both Sherline and Smithy on emc2 with cl.
[21:18:17] <alex_joni> c'mon you know what I mean
[21:18:23] <rayh> That way their customers can plug in a second parport and add pendants
[21:18:30] <rayh> or whatever they wish.
[21:18:34] <rayh> I agree.
[21:18:41] <rayh> It is an expansion thing.
[21:18:46] <alex_joni> btw, I am getting a 2-port PCI parport card
[21:18:48] <jepler> cncuser: minigl should link against libGL. I wonder why it doesn't...
[21:19:05] <rayh> If it is there on every machine tool I have to deal with, then service and upgrades to IO are easy.
[21:19:12] <alex_joni> cncuser: use cat minigl.o libgl > newfile.o
[21:19:17] <cncuser> jepler: i am about to recompile mesa
[21:19:19] <jepler> cc -pthread -shared build/temp.linux-i686-2.3/extensions/minigl.o -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lGL -lGLU -o build/lib.linux-i686-2.3/minigl.so
[21:19:31] <alex_joni> rayh: I spoke with jmk about this
[21:19:33] <jepler> here's the commandline "setup.py" uses when it creates the minigl module on my system...
[21:19:41] <alex_joni> and we came out with following idea
[21:19:55] <etla> so this ladder language is just a convenient way of writing down logic circuitry/algorithms ? and thats why it's used ?
[21:19:56] <alex_joni> if only jepler & cncuser wouldn't make this so hard to read :D
[21:19:58] <jepler> cncuser: before you try to rebuild axis, make sure you "rm -rf build" or it won't actually rebuild minigl...
[21:20:23] <cncuser> alex_joni: hmmm, whats that thing for ?
[21:20:25] <alex_joni> jepler, cncuser: would it be much to take that private?
[21:20:33] <alex_joni> cncuser: meant as a joke...
[21:20:41] <cncuser> :)
[21:21:04] <cncuser> alex_joni> cncuser: use cat minigl.o libgl > newfile.o
[21:21:24] <alex_joni> yeah.. that's the joke :)
[21:22:04] <cncuser> i thought maybe it make a nice looking picture when adding a png header
[21:22:19] <jepler> cncuser: perhaps we should use #emc-axis for this discussion
[21:22:28] <cncuser> jepler: ok
[21:22:56] <alex_joni> jepler: if you want I can set up a logger.. if you feel that's needed
[21:23:10] <jepler> alex_joni: no, that's probably overkill
[21:25:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was wrong..
[21:25:59] <alex_joni> this probably is the place about talking how to build an emc-gui ;)
[21:27:14] <alex_joni> rayh: still there
[21:28:42] <alex_joni> rayh: as I was saying... I talked to jmk about this CL stuff
[21:28:49] <alex_joni> and we both feel there is something missing
[21:29:15] <alex_joni> the user interface is pretty ok, but not very usefull to help the debugging user
[21:29:27] <alex_joni> I'm thinking of you last week on the mazak when I say that
[21:29:57] <alex_joni> and CL should have a possibility to export the data inside under an easy to read format
[21:30:05] <alex_joni> and I'm thinking of ASCII art ladder
[21:32:31] <rayh> back
[21:32:42] <alex_joni> read the last few lines..
[21:33:02] <rayh> got you.
[21:33:15] <rayh> There is no question but that cl needs a lot of work.
[21:33:28] <rayh> printing is essential.
[21:33:52] <rayh> having the HAL names for inputs and outputs would also help a lot.
[21:34:05] <rayh> as would common names for the B coils.
[21:34:32] <rayh> Right now you have to keep a crib sheet beside you while you work.
[21:34:35] <alex_joni> so you agree with this idea?
[21:34:44] <rayh> absolutely.
[21:34:53] <alex_joni> ok..I'll add a feature request
[21:34:59] <rayh> I would really like to see it all inside one larger display
[21:35:21] <rayh> with the parts as pull down and popin.
[21:35:21] <alex_joni> dang.. my last email to the list was from a webmail (which now I see is not properly configured)
[21:36:06] <alex_joni> pull down?
[21:36:26] <alex_joni> rayh: you're talking about GUI
[21:36:30] <cncuser> hmm, i should subscribe to the list i think
[21:36:39] <alex_joni> I was talking about exporting the data from the GUI, in order to be able to print it out
[21:36:52] <alex_joni> cncuser: 2 lists, and you definately need to sunscribe
[21:39:12] <cncuser> im in
[21:43:05] <alex_joni> coo
[21:44:37] <rayh> Yes a new gui for classicladder on the display side of things.
[21:45:33] <rayh> There are ways to export from tcl's canvas.
[21:45:54] <alex_joni> hrmmm...
[21:45:56] <rayh> I'd think there would be similar things from whatever that darn display is written in.
[21:46:03] <alex_joni> gtk
[21:46:07] <crib> huh?
[21:46:38] <alex_joni> gtk=The Gimp Tool Kit
[21:46:51] <rayh> Yea.
[21:46:56] <rayh> * rayh groans.
[21:46:59] <alex_joni> GTK+ is a multi-platform toolkit for creating graphical user interfaces. Offering a complete set of widgets, GTK+ is suitable for projects ranging from small one-off projects to complete application suites.
[21:47:00] <cncuser> gimp rocks and roles
[21:47:20] <rayh> alex has bought the hype.
[21:47:29] <crib> "... to keep a crib sheet ..." ;D
[21:47:57] <rayh> I love gimp for image manipulation.
[21:48:31] <rayh> got quiteinsane and the raw reader for canon rebel connected to it.
[21:49:08] <rayh> But once you buy into that tool kit you leave me out completely.
[21:49:25] <rayh> cause I'm a point-n-click kinda gy.
[21:49:31] <rayh> guy.
[21:49:49] <rayh> Now the dev kit from qt would work for me.
[21:50:04] <rayh> and paul was experimenting with a library for it.
[21:50:13] <rayh> to connect to emc.
[21:50:39] <jepler> what's not point-n-click about gtk+?
[21:51:28] <alex_joni> jepler: seems most development with gtk related to emc was done by hand
[21:51:46] <cncuser> http://ruby-gnome2.sourceforge.jp/data/rubyzilla.html
[21:51:52] <cncuser> thats how glade works
[21:52:42] <jepler> even though I've written one, I don't really like GUI designer apps
[21:53:10] <jepler> (
http://unpy.net/~jepler/nf/docs/intro.html)
[21:54:58] <rayh> I think we went through this before. How difficult would it be to write a library to connect between whatever designers are available for gtk stuff and the EMC that it needs to work with.
[21:55:51] <rayh> oh fscking flash.
[21:56:15] <alex_joni> flash? now that's.. crazy :D
[21:56:19] <rayh> I'll probably be able to see it sometime tomorrow.
[21:56:46] <Jymmm> * Jymmm *LOVES* flash
[21:57:48] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ love VI
[21:57:55] <Jacky^> hello :)
[21:58:20] <rayh> got a question long set of lines follows.
[21:58:28] <rayh> NOTE - you need GTK+ 2.6, and GNOME 2.10 (if you want GNOME support). Also note that interfaces created with Glade 2.10 will need GTK+ 2.6 and GNOME 2.10. So if you want your application to work with older versions of GTK+ and GNOME you need to use an older version of Glade.
[21:58:48] <rayh> How does that requirement fit with what we have in there now?
[22:01:26] <cncuser> http://www.fltk.org/applications/images/gmsh.png
[22:01:31] <cncuser> i love fltk :)
[22:01:43] <jepler> looks like this bdi4 machine has libgtk2.0-2.6.4-3
[22:01:59] <jepler> though whether that got installed manually with apt, I'm not sure
[22:02:22] <cncuser> you rewrite axis in gtk ?
[22:02:43] <jepler> no, no, just telling rayh what gtk is on bdi.
[22:02:51] <jepler> I know how to program Tk, but not gtk...
[22:05:48] <fenn> i hate flash, but that's a nice little demo movie
[22:05:51] <alex_joni> rayh: I think you didn't get me right (on my last mail to the list)
[22:06:47] <rayh> Sorry, What did I miss.
[22:07:08] <alex_joni> when I said I built it I only meant compiled it
[22:07:15] <fenn> * fenn is having a hard time keeping up with #emc and [emc-developers
[22:07:20] <alex_joni> emc on doze I mean
[22:07:32] <alex_joni> fenn: check out the user list and the commit list
[22:07:37] <rayh> Ah. Yes.
[22:07:48] <alex_joni> and a few more other places to go.. then the picture will be complete
[22:08:06] <cncuser> whats a doze ?
[22:08:06] <rayh> I was trying to say that it did not surprise me that folk were running emc on doze.
[22:08:14] <jepler> windows
[22:08:17] <jepler> microsoft
[22:08:18] <cncuser> harhar
[22:08:26] <rayh> Microsoft Windows(tm)
[22:08:29] <cncuser> who will want to do such stupid thing ?
[22:08:37] <alex_joni> I would :P
[22:08:41] <rayh> Windows are what keep the cold out.
[22:08:44] <alex_joni> but not for real..
[22:08:49] <cncuser> alex_joni: youre kidding :P
[22:08:51] <cncuser> hehe
[22:09:02] <alex_joni> In a world without walls and fences..
[22:09:08] <alex_joni> who needs gates and windows?
[22:09:11] <cncuser> noone needs windows
[22:09:14] <cncuser> ;)
[22:09:27] <cncuser> ok, enough of that hippyshit
[22:10:00] <fenn> rayh: gtk was designed because there wasn't any good GUI libraries around when the GIMP was written
[22:10:14] <fenn> and it was good so people kept using it
[22:10:30] <fenn> now gtk is a pretty standard gui toolkit, which is a good thing imho
[22:10:43] <fenn> i hate having to install 50 different gui libraries that all do the same thing
[22:11:45] <rayh> I'd consider glade as a gui tool if others thought it good, and if we can build a library of easy to use connections to emc.
[22:12:10] <rayh> It would at least make it possible for a wider group of people to build interfaces.
[22:12:56] <rayh> course gtk takes us away from KDE and qt toward gnome as desktop.
[22:13:44] <fenn> does it?
[22:13:54] <fenn> i don't have any gnome bullcrap on my system and gtk works fine
[22:14:00] <rayh> I do have to say that IMO gftp beats anything else hands down.
[22:14:01] <fenn> (that's one reason I like gtk)
[22:17:15] <alex_joni> rayh: what's gftp ?
[22:17:58] <rayh> a point-n-click ftp front end.
[22:18:34] <cncuser> like ncftp
[22:19:09] <alex_joni> so what's it gotta do with toolkits? other that it probably uses gtk (based on the name)
[22:24:34] <rayh> Right. It is a very clean interface. But then so is gimp.
[22:24:49] <rayh> so I ought not to be prejudiced against it.
[22:25:07] <rayh> just cause I can use tickle and vtcl and the libs I built for that.
[22:26:46] <fenn> does wxWidgets use QT natively?
[22:27:04] <rayh> Don't know.
[22:27:17] <fenn> it says there's a port of wxWidgets to GTK, i guess that means it uses something different normally
[22:27:42] <rayh> paul-c was writing qt by hand rather than using the developer/designer.
[22:28:14] <rayh> The qt designer will allow very quick construction of the display
[22:28:37] <alex_joni> I really think this started from something else
[22:28:38] <rayh> but I never got to understand any of the links between it's signals and sockets and emc.
[22:28:51] <fenn> i tend to dislike automatic code generation apps
[22:29:00] <fenn> they make ugly code that is hard to understand
[22:29:02] <rayh> Yes it did.alex.
[22:29:06] <alex_joni> with mach, you (the user) have the ability to build your GUI
[22:29:23] <alex_joni> not with a designer software (be it qt or gtk or whatever)
[22:29:36] <cncuser> why not do it in smalltalk and make emc a squeak ap :)))
[22:29:44] <fenn> i like john's original idea of using hal gui components
[22:30:11] <alex_joni> fenn: I like the idea too, but first I want to see the hal mess sorted out
[22:30:26] <alex_joni> ask rayh how much it took him to understand how to work with it
[22:30:36] <alex_joni> and rayh is really one of the most experienced
[22:30:47] <fenn> i think hal would be much easier to configure with a gui
[22:30:54] <alex_joni> try explaining it all to aunt tillie, and it'll miserably fail
[22:31:07] <alex_joni> fenn: yes, so do I, but I don't see a gui..
[22:31:14] <fenn> * fenn glares at ValarQ
[22:31:30] <rayh> I can imagine a gui configuration system that stored large chunks of hal stuff.
[22:31:50] <rayh> for example if you have a vital light card, click vital lite and you
[22:32:02] <rayh> get a listing of all the signals for that card.
[22:32:11] <alex_joni> rayh: it's easier than that
[22:32:17] <rayh> with proposed hal names
[22:32:25] <alex_joni> the GUI ValarQ started is actually a wrapper to bin/halcmd
[22:32:59] <rayh> And you can write and test as you go?
[22:33:10] <alex_joni> so all you see in the GUI exists in HAL
[22:33:16] <alex_joni> yes.. that's how it's intended
[22:33:32] <fenn> and it's python, so it could (theoretically) be easily integrated with axis
[22:33:35] <alex_joni> so if you need a new component, simply select one from the modules existing
[22:34:16] <rayh> that python stuff lets me out completely.
[22:34:31] <alex_joni> it's just some drunken .c
[22:34:51] <fenn> python is actually pretty easy to read
[22:35:22] <rayh> Um! youre talking to a raging dyslexic.
[22:35:29] <fenn> heh
[22:36:01] <fenn> raging dyslexic on drunken .c
[22:36:55] <fenn> i got my servos today.. whee!!!
[22:37:16] <fenn> now they will sit in a box for 6 months (hopefully not more than 6 months)
[22:37:36] <alex_joni> why not unpack them?
[22:38:05] <fenn> * fenn shrugs
[22:38:27] <fenn> need to become proficient in electronics before i attempt building a driver
[22:39:20] <cncuser> make[1]: *** [bltGraph.o] Error 1
[22:39:21] <cncuser> make[1]: Leaving directory `/root/cnc/source/blt2.4u/src'
[22:39:21] <cncuser> make: *** [all] Error 2
[22:39:24] <cncuser> i love it
[22:39:43] <alex_joni> what's blt now?
[22:40:04] <cncuser> 5 year old software, that made it into all majordistris packages, dont want to be built by me
[22:40:18] <cncuser> some tclTk stuff
[22:50:16] <Jymmm> * Jymmm notes... you know how damn easy it is to just upload digital photos and be able to pick up prints in under an hour?!
[22:50:40] <Jymmm> too bad can't get dinner the same way =(
[22:50:58] <alex_joni> dinner, no, but grocery shoppings
[22:51:19] <Jymmm> yeah, I used to do that oo.
[22:51:19] <alex_joni> at least over here.. just mail the list with stuff you need, and you'll get them delivered at home
[22:51:58] <alex_joni> I recently found smthg out..
[22:52:08] <alex_joni> it's best to do food shopping when not hungry
[22:52:09] <Jymmm> The sad thing is we try not to shop at the grocery store as they are expensive and find that the restraunt supply is MUCH cheaper
[22:53:17] <Jymmm> 3 lbs of cream cheese is like $4, hell you pay $3 for 12 ounces at the grocery store.
[22:54:48] <Jymmm> Worchester Sauce: grocery stoer 12 ounces $4. one Gallon $5
[22:55:05] <Jymmm> maybe $6, but still.
[22:56:28] <Jymmm> Roast Beef Grocery store deli counter: $7.50/lb, Rest Supply: 2lbs for $7
[22:57:08] <Jymmm> same with smoked turkey
[22:57:16] <alex_joni> ok ok.. I get the picture
[22:57:36] <Jymmm> no, the prints win't be ready for an hour still =)
[22:57:57] <alex_joni> well.. I'll get them faster
[22:58:48] <Jymmm> whats food costs over there?
[22:59:12] <alex_joni> what kind of food?
[22:59:20] <Jymmm> whatever
[22:59:32] <Jymmm> same things I just mentioned as example
[22:59:52] <alex_joni> not very usual stuff, probably a bit more expensive
[23:00:11] <Jymmm> ok, then what is usual?
[23:00:27] <rayh> I'll write a wiki page on using the hal cl stepper demo.
[23:00:33] <alex_joni> but say some bbq meat (neck) is about 5$ / kg
[23:00:48] <Jymmm> neck?! of what?
[23:00:59] <alex_joni> pig :)
[23:01:10] <alex_joni> what do you bbq usually?
[23:01:17] <Jymmm> what about pig butt (shoulder roast)
[23:01:27] <Jymmm> or bacon or ham
[23:01:39] <Jymmm> rib eye steaks
[23:01:41] <alex_joni> about the same I think
[23:01:42] <rayh> I wonder if steve figured out what was happening to uploaded images in the wiki?
[23:01:50] <Jymmm> on the bbq, the gf like new york
[23:02:12] <Jymmm> alex_joni what does bacon cost?
[23:02:31] <alex_joni> like I said .. 4-5$/kg
[23:02:52] <Jymmm> well, you said neck, not bacon =)
[23:03:09] <alex_joni> almost the same prize I think..
[23:03:15] <alex_joni> but I don't do much shopping :)
[23:03:37] <Jymmm> that's pretty cheap, cheaper than here
[23:03:42] <Jymmm> if in USD
[23:04:21] <alex_joni> yeah..but incomes are a lot smaller
[23:05:43] <Jymmm> yeah, SF bay area is very exp to live
[23:06:04] <alex_joni> how much is a avg income there?
[23:06:54] <Jymmm> Well, I have just seen a 2br condo go for on avg of $400,000 USD
[23:07:06] <Jymmm> for a condo!
[23:15:03] <LawrenceG> ok a serious emc question.... what is the format for a g4 dwell command?? how is the dwell time set?
[23:15:18] <LawrenceG> g4 p=3000 ?
[23:15:37] <LawrenceG> g4 #3000 ?
[23:15:59] <LawrenceG> g4 wtf.... the handbook skips it
[23:16:44] <Jymmm> LawrenceG bitch out the author
[23:16:55] <LawrenceG> trying :}
[23:17:01] <Jymmm> lol
[23:18:18] <LawrenceG> trying to convert an eagle pcb ulp program so it generates code for emc... pcb milling works... just need the drilling part now
[23:18:54] <rayh> g4 is a dwell.
[23:19:04] <rayh> It does not sit at th end of a cut.
[23:19:16] <rayh> it is the first thing executed on the line it resides in.
[23:19:27] <rayh> so if you are drilling,
[23:19:38] <rayh> you command to the depth desired
[23:19:45] <rayh> and then dwell on the next line.
[23:20:18] <LawrenceG> yea... how do I tell it to start spindle and then dwell 3 seconds? m3 then g4 something
[23:20:46] <rayh> m3 s1000
[23:21:02] <rayh> g4 g1 f1.5 z-1
[23:22:06] <LawrenceG> there is a way to set the dwell time.. something comes after g4...
[23:22:13] <rayh> Then at the bottom of the hole if you need a dwell to cleanup
[23:22:32] <rayh> Oh forgot yep that's the p part, I think. Let me look.
[23:22:33] <LawrenceG> using g82 drill cycles and the dwell is set ok for them
[23:22:50] <alex_joni> night folks
[23:22:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[23:24:01] <fenn> ah damn just missed him
[23:24:09] <rayh> yep "PDwell time with G4 and canned cycles key used with G10"
[23:24:42] <LawrenceG> every way I have tried to specify p has been an error
[23:32:55] <rayh> I believe that p is in seconds and you can use decimal. You don't need any = or separator.
[23:33:20] <rayh> g4 p2 g1 f1.5 z-1 might work.
[23:33:45] <LawrenceG> let me give it a try...
[23:59:42] <LawrenceG> thanks ray... I seem to have it working now... I also had a bad param on the drilling cycle... it needed P250 as well
