#emc | Logs for 2005-10-14

[00:34:58] <fgleich> hello. Is there a list set up somewhere for bdi install problems ?
[00:35:48] <fgleich> anyone here ?
[00:38:47] <Jymmm> are you installing from an ISO ?
[00:38:55] <Jymmm> you might look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/
[00:40:50] <K`zan> Damn, there IS someone here, with all those nicks, who would have guessed ;-)
[00:40:56] <K`zan> LOL
[00:41:52] <K`zan> Well, it looks like about $27 per axis to build (could save some here and there) plus a break out board. Not bad, but SO close to the HobbyCNC stuff.
[00:42:30] <fgleich> ya, I'm now dloading the live cd version
[00:42:32] <fgleich> thanks
[00:42:33] <K`zan> If it goes beyond what I want to do, building would be worth it, I think.
[00:43:23] <fenn> kzan if you end up building the pminmo board, could you write up where you got the components + how much they cost?
[00:44:05] <K`zan> fenn: Sure, the list isn't solid but it is pretty close, lemme export it to a PDF for your perusal.
[00:44:15] <fenn> thanks
[00:45:00] <fenn> i'm thinking about building a monstrosity, and possibly basing it on the l298 board
[00:46:42] <K`zan> Unless you want an OO spreadsheet ?
[00:47:51] <fenn> hmmm i'd rather not install all that
[00:48:06] <fenn> i finally got rid of all the gnome crap
[00:48:14] <fenn> well, almost all of it
[00:48:55] <fenn> redhat packages tend to have extraneous dependencies
[00:51:31] <K`zan> Damn OO export will only do portrait - messy, turns 1 page into 3, sigh.
[00:53:32] <fenn> that's ok
[00:54:00] <fenn> well, for me at least
[00:54:36] <fenn> i guess i might end up putting it on my machine construction wiki if i ever build the thing
[00:55:51] <K`zan> Try this: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/
[00:56:17] <K`zan> I find OO generally pretty handy and not as obnoixious as m$orfice - cheaper too :).
[01:01:49] <fenn> amazing how all those nickels and dimes add up
[01:02:41] <K`zan> Yes, it is and those prices from Fururelec seem pretty good...
[01:03:14] <K`zan> Actually I think you get 10 resistors per package, FWIW.
[01:03:53] <K`zan> Finding the 0.5R ?1W? resistors for the sense I guessed at.
[01:04:35] <fenn> why 1W?
[01:04:40] <K`zan> Wonder why the sense resistors need to be ?1W? I don't see anything there that would seem to call for ?1W?, but then again my ignorance of this is legion at this point :-/.
[01:05:04] <cradek> hello
[01:05:35] <fenn> perhaps cradek will bestow his wisdom upon us
[01:05:37] <K`zan> G'day cradek
[01:05:40] <cradek> ha
[01:05:45] <K`zan> :-)
[01:05:46] <cradek> * cradek looks around for his wisdom
[01:05:49] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[01:05:53] <K`zan> LOL
[01:06:42] <K`zan> In my case, with the steppers I have, I would probably have to change the sense resistors anyway, from what I gather so far (been told I would for the HobbyCNC one, so I *assume* :-).
[01:07:20] <cradek> let me look at the schematic...
[01:07:29] <K`zan> Just seems fiscally prudent at this point to go with a 3 axis hobbyCNC
[01:08:01] <K`zan> When I start seriously considering the Taig REALLY coming to fruitation, I can work on building at leasure.
[01:08:45] <cradek> aha
[01:08:59] <K`zan> * K`zan wishes for a ${amount of Taig prepped for CNC} windfall :-).
[01:09:23] <cradek> the Vref can swing from 0 to 5/3.7 V
[01:09:44] <cradek> so if your sense resistors will give something between those numbers when passing the desired current, you're fine.
[01:09:47] <K`zan> Must be swinging with a lot of current for need 1W
[01:10:06] <cradek> what current do you need in the motor?
[01:10:43] <K`zan> cradek: {ignorance warning!} from what I can see on the supply meter, 2-300mA with peaks I can't read...
[01:11:35] <fenn> if it catches on fire, use a bigger one?
[01:11:47] <K`zan> Plus I am not sure about voltage, these are rated at 12V, but I keep seeing people running with up to 80V, but those are choppers not switching through a ULN2803...
[01:12:10] <K`zan> choppers == PWM as I understand it ATM.
[01:12:14] <cradek> yes, the idea is to use a much higher voltage than the motor requires at steady state
[01:12:30] <fenn> cnc is a somewhat more demanding application, so people tend to up the voltage to get better acceleration and top speed
[01:12:31] <cradek> that gives you torque at high speed
[01:12:49] <K`zan> * K`zan keeps eyes out for 24+ power supplies :).
[01:12:53] <cradek> it's common to use 10x the stepper's rated voltage with a chopper if you can
[01:13:18] <K`zan> Seems odd to me but I understand this is common with steppers because of current issues I do not yet understand/
[01:13:30] <fenn> why are steppers rated with such low voltages anyway?
[01:13:41] <K`zan> 120V :-), wow easy, just drop some diodes off the AC line :).
[01:13:43] <fenn> motors are usually rated by power dissipation right?
[01:14:06] <cradek> they are rated low voltage high current, so you can use 10x the rated voltage and switch it with transistors
[01:14:15] <K`zan> Problem with these is that I can't find any specs on them :-(. Or at least any that make sense to me.
[01:14:25] <cradek> there are no markings at all?
[01:15:11] <K`zan> Yep, old floppy steppers: Japan Servo KP4M4-029 and interestingly I keep being told they are common as dirt...
[01:15:53] <cradek> floppies don't turn fast. Simplicity for driving them is more important than high speed torque in that application.
[01:15:58] <K`zan> :-) as they smoke, I'll replace them with better :).
[01:16:27] <cradek> So they are probably 12V unipolar and they were driven directly with switching transistors to the 12V line.
[01:16:32] <K`zan> I gather, it that application, they are just precision positioning motors.
[01:16:59] <cradek> yes, I'm sure very little torque is needed.
[01:17:02] <K`zan> Load is insignificant (seems to me, just the floppy r/w head and arm mass.
[01:17:29] <K`zan> I am wondering if they are going to be able to drive a 1/4-20 all-thread 3' long, but we'll see.
[01:17:50] <cradek> at very low speed, they might.
[01:18:04] <K`zan> I can grab the shaft with my fingers and stop it (chatters at me :)
[01:18:10] <cradek> You could measure the holding torque with nothing more than what you have now
[01:18:27] <K`zan> * K`zan looks for that old fish weighing scale :).
[01:18:34] <cradek> right, there you go
[01:18:54] <K`zan> Or push on the digital scale tray, dunno if it would exceed that...
[01:18:57] <cradek> make a lever arm, hook a coil up to 12V, pile weight on the end of the arm until the motor lets go
[01:19:09] <cradek> then calculate your oz in
[01:19:23] <K`zan> Nifty! Thanks.
[01:19:52] <cradek> if it's under 50 or so, you'll probably not be able to move anything with it.
[01:20:09] <K`zan> Need to get them A) mounted to something (rather than just laying on the desk) and B) something to clamp to the shaft - was thinking about radiator hose and clamps...
[01:20:26] <K`zan> Gotta start somewhere :-(.
[01:20:40] <K`zan> ATM much more time than $$$...
[01:20:59] <cradek> do you have some aluminum bar? set screws? tap and die set? drill?
[01:21:12] <cradek> you could make a nice arm that way for testing
[01:22:06] <K`zan> Not much of that, but it could be acquired and perhaps that CHEAP chinese drill press might serve...
[01:22:33] <K`zan> Had to replace the motor on that thing as if you ran it over a minute the thing started stinking...
[01:22:45] <K`zan> less with any load.
[01:22:47] <cradek> to answer your earlier question: the L298 can handle 4A. At 2A per winding the power dissipated in the sense resistor is I^2 * R = (2A)^2 * 0.5 ohm = 1W
[01:23:20] <cradek> err
[01:23:22] <cradek> w@
[01:23:24] <cradek> 2W
[01:23:41] <K`zan> the 298 must be feeding the current back to 297 then as t here is no direct connect to the windings there.
[01:24:07] <cradek> the motor current goes through the sense resistors.
[01:24:13] <K`zan> 297 pins 13 & 14 to 298 1 and 15.
[01:24:27] <cradek> the L298 compares the sensed voltage to Vref
[01:24:48] <K`zan> coils out on 298 p 2, 3, 13,14.
[01:25:13] <K`zan> I'll take your word for it though :-). Thanks.
[01:25:16] <cradek> look at the L298 datasheet
[01:25:28] <K`zan> Need to do that in more depth than I have <blush>
[01:25:29] <cradek> on the front page is the internal layout
[01:25:44] <cradek> you can see that all motor current to ground goes through the sense resistor
[01:27:58] <fenn> btw you can do amazing things with a cheap chinese drill press
[01:28:06] <fenn> i built a lathe with one
[01:28:22] <cradek> yeah, I like mine too
[01:28:28] <K`zan> OK, I was confused on which was which.
[01:28:38] <cradek> it could use one more slower speed
[01:28:44] <K`zan> Quill on mine rattles like a BB in a boxcar :).
[01:28:50] <fenn> i'm getting dizzy looking at that schematic
[01:29:09] <cradek> fenn: the L298?
[01:29:13] <fenn> there should be a screw on the left of the main casting that snugs it up a little
[01:29:19] <fenn> cradek: the pminmo board
[01:29:24] <cradek> fenn: ah
[01:29:55] <cradek> fenn: it's a good board
[01:29:56] <K`zan> 297 is just the contoller...
[01:30:19] <K`zan> 298 does all the heavy lifting, ok , got that straight now :)
[01:30:23] <cradek> K`zan: right, 298 is just driver transistors and a tiny bit of logic to run the H bridges
[01:31:07] <K`zan> Slowly we dig outselves out of the confusion with your gracious help :-)!
[01:31:09] <fgleich> well, just dloaded the live iso and the md5 sum is wrong, damnit....
[01:31:17] <fgleich> rats
[01:31:25] <cradek> fgleich: arggh
[01:31:26] <K`zan> fgleich: I went throug that 3x before I got a good one.
[01:31:36] <K`zan> 2x before 3rd one was OK.
[01:31:41] <cradek> tcp sucks for large stuff like that.
[01:31:49] <fgleich> *takes aim at the servier with a rubber band gun
[01:32:11] <cradek> paul should be using bittorrent. It transfers in smaller chunks and only has to resend the bad one.
[01:32:14] <fgleich> it's such a slow connection too
[01:32:18] <fenn> heh i was about to say that
[01:32:19] <K`zan> Strangely, the liveCD for EMC is the only bad ISO I have downloaded (and I have downloaded a few).
[01:32:52] <K`zan> brb
[01:32:53] <fgleich> how weird, huh
[01:32:58] <K`zan> Yeah, it is.
[01:33:18] <fgleich> has anyone used it and dloaded a good copy ?
[01:33:26] <cradek> very irritating for slow connections. I have 4Mbit and it's irritating for me (takes another 20 minutes!)
[01:33:44] <cradek> fgleich: I got a good 4.30
[01:33:46] <fgleich> I have a fast cable connection too
[01:33:54] <K`zan> THe one I have now md5sums out right, seems to work OK.
[01:33:58] <fgleich> where is that at, cradek ?
[01:34:07] <cradek> um, on a cd at work
[01:34:09] <fgleich> what URL ?
[01:34:15] <fgleich> oh I see
[01:34:16] <cradek> let me look, I can find it again
[01:35:15] <cradek> http://mirrors.neuron.com/emc-bdi/bdi-4.30.iso
[01:35:18] <cradek> I think this is the one I got
[01:35:25] <fgleich> oh ok thanks
[01:35:30] <fgleich> not a live one, eh ?
[01:35:44] <cradek> oh, no, I thought you were talking about bdi4
[01:35:58] <cradek> the live distro is really old.
[01:36:13] <fgleich> well, I have a good one but, the install wont find the partition for some reason
[01:36:21] <fgleich> so I'm trying the live cd
[01:36:23] <cradek> bdi-4.30 comes with the new gui
[01:36:34] <cradek> what do you mean wo't find the partition?
[01:36:35] <fgleich> ok, will give that a try
[01:37:06] <fgleich> um, I forget now, it says something about not being able to find any hds or something like that
[01:37:14] <cradek> is your machine SATA?
[01:37:17] <fgleich> no
[01:37:26] <cradek> it's regular IDE?
[01:37:27] <fgleich> but I have that turned on
[01:37:34] <fgleich> I have both actually
[01:37:46] <cradek> but your hard disk is regular IDE?
[01:38:00] <fgleich> yes, I have two of them
[01:38:13] <cradek> I'm surprised it doesn't work then.
[01:38:27] <fgleich> one with about five linux partitins, and one with about five win parts
[01:38:36] <fgleich> me too
[01:38:51] <cradek> sounds like you could use a second machine to experiment on
[01:38:59] <cradek> one without a lot of important stuff on it
[01:39:01] <fgleich> it looks like an old rh6 installation tho
[01:39:15] <fgleich> I have one, but it's sata and ide combinded
[01:39:19] <fgleich> combined
[01:39:29] <cradek> I don't know if bdi-4.30 supports sata. It might not.
[01:39:43] <fgleich> I'll give it a try
[01:39:57] <fgleich> about 650Mbyte or so on that ?
[01:40:05] <fenn> * fenn has never even heard of sata until a couple months ago
[01:40:10] <cradek> if you can run it, it's definitely what you want, because it has the new GUI available (AXIS)
[01:40:27] <fgleich> cool
[01:40:32] <cradek> fgleich: I think the default install is something like 600-700
[01:40:41] <fgleich> let me get that URL again
[01:40:45] <cradek> fgleich: not sure exactly
[01:41:01] <fgleich> ok got it
[01:41:04] <fgleich> brb
[01:41:45] <fenn> what do you do with 3Gb/s transfer rate?
[01:42:14] <cradek> me? I don't have that
[01:42:17] <fgleich> better connection !
[01:42:31] <fgleich> about 500KB/s on this one
[01:42:35] <fgleich> great !
[01:43:00] <cradek> cool, that's about what I can get too
[01:43:17] <cradek> I've seen 600KB/s but it's rare
[01:43:31] <fgleich> is the code written with the GTK libs ? do you know ?
[01:43:54] <cradek> no, it's python, tk, pyopengl
[01:44:05] <cradek> you mean AXIS, right?
[01:44:06] <fgleich> oh I see ok
[01:44:20] <fgleich> AXIS is the controller code, right ?
[01:44:36] <cradek> AXIS is one of the GUIs that is available
[01:44:45] <cradek> the backend (brain) is C and C++
[01:45:13] <fgleich> ok, and the src is also available ?
[01:45:23] <cradek> of course
[01:45:37] <fgleich> it's GPLed then I take it ?
[01:45:47] <fgleich> LGPL or GPL
[01:45:47] <fenn> * fenn mumbles
[01:45:57] <cradek> some of the backend is GPL and some is PD. The AXIS GUI is GPL.
[01:46:10] <fgleich> oh cool, thanks for the tips here
[01:46:23] <cradek> welcome
[01:46:57] <fgleich> I have 121 MB already lol
[01:47:00] <fgleich> wow
[01:47:13] <K`zan> Axis does indeed look interesting, dunno if it is on the liveCD or not. May have to install 4.30 on an unused partition.
[01:47:15] <fgleich> 20%
[01:47:23] <cradek> it is not on the live cd.
[01:47:29] <cradek> the live cd itself predates AXIS.
[01:47:49] <fgleich> I was asking coz was thinking about using wxwidgets maybe
[01:47:56] <K`zan> Doesn't much matter until I get some driver going....
[01:48:41] <cradek> huh, we announced AXIS last November. It's almost a year old.
[01:48:48] <fenn> you can watch emc blink LED's off the parallel port
[01:49:40] <cradek> fenn: earphones are better
[01:49:57] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (24 files in 18 dirs): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Fri Oct 14 01:04:29 BST 2005 "
[01:53:57] <fenn> that's neat
[01:54:08] <fenn> the auto wiki update script
[02:02:19] <fgleich> 475 MB
[02:02:26] <fgleich> 76 %
[02:02:28] <fgleich> wow
[02:07:33] <Jacky^> *_-
[02:07:41] <Jacky^> bed time ..
[02:07:52] <Jacky^> g night
[02:08:02] <K`zan> Rest well!
[02:11:17] <fgleich> ok all dloaded, time to burn now
[02:11:23] <fgleich> thanks for the help
[02:20:00] <fenn> hey cradek where do you get your raw circuit board material?
[02:20:08] <cradek> mouser
[02:20:25] <fenn> is this a good deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/40-Printed-Circuit-Boards-Copper-Clad-Single-sided_W0QQitemZ7553432420QQcategoryZ4660QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[02:21:00] <icee> if you're milling circuit boards be careful of warpage
[02:22:02] <K`zan> I've come to seriously question anything off ebay...
[02:24:21] <fenn> i think i'm gonna go for it.. worst case scenario is i'll have a new 40 page copper notebook
[02:27:19] <jepler> mouser has inexensive single-sided copper clad boards, check their price before you buy
[02:29:01] <jepler> 4x6" 1.96ea ; 1.78ea qty 5+
[02:29:19] <jepler> so that may be a good deal for 40 4x9 if they're usable
[02:29:53] <jepler> (the part I'm talking about is mouser 501-fr4x6s)
[02:30:39] <icee> 501-fr4x6s is discontinued
[02:30:48] <jepler> oh is it? this is an old catalog .pdf I'm looking at
[02:30:57] <icee> 590-506 is $2.96
[02:31:14] <fenn> hmm well this stuff is about 10x cheaper
[02:31:23] <fenn> per square inch
[02:31:35] <icee> fenn: how are you going to use it?
[02:31:46] <fenn> i'm going to admire it :)
[02:31:49] <icee> haha
[02:31:56] <icee> are you going to etch or mill or what?
[02:31:59] <fenn> mill
[02:32:05] <icee> * icee nods
[02:32:07] <fenn> unless that doesnt work out
[02:32:21] <fenn> see, i already have a cnc mill, dont have any etching supplies
[02:32:34] <icee> milling is just very sensitive to any bending of the material
[02:33:04] <icee> it really sucks to get nice clean traces in the middle and stuff disappearing on both sides
[02:33:11] <jepler> huh. oh well, the stack of 25 boards I bought last earlier this year will last awhile.
[02:33:27] <fenn> what about using a foot to push down on the board, like a sewing machine foot
[02:33:39] <jepler> icee: when you mill boards, how do you attach them to the table?
[02:34:02] <jepler> icee: cradek has developed a system using double-sided tape, and it works reasonably well
[02:34:13] <icee> jepler: depends on the size. usually stepped blocks on 3 sides
[02:34:16] <icee> have done double sided tape, too
[02:35:07] <icee> to drill the boards, i do super ghetto. screw to plywood and hold down plywood
[02:36:29] <icee> i need to make a nice aluminum plate that's finished super accurately so i can mill/drill in one pass
[02:39:00] <jepler> the maxnc table is good enough for that
[02:39:20] <fenn> he doesnt want to drill into the table i suppose
[02:39:36] <icee> yah
[02:39:42] <icee> holes in the mill table are unfortunate ;)
[02:39:51] <jepler> put a piece of perfboard between the table and the board to mill
[02:40:06] <jepler> all the same, I have destroyed one tool in the table with an errant program
[02:40:06] <icee> i'll just flycut some aluminum plate nicely
[02:41:04] <jepler> something about missing a leading zero in the drilling depth
[02:41:22] <fgleich> ok, all burnt, going to try to install now
[02:41:32] <jepler> fgleich: good luck!
[02:41:32] <fgleich> thanks for the help and advice guys :)
[02:41:37] <cradek> thousandths and hundredths look about the same...
[02:41:43] <fgleich> see ya soon maybe
[02:42:12] <icee> i need to make my own gerber -> gcode converter
[02:42:21] <icee> the MIT one i'm using is retarded.
[02:42:23] <cradek> surely someone has done that already...
[02:42:25] <cradek> oh
[02:42:43] <icee> it likes to alternate between doing traces on opposite sides of the board
[02:42:49] <icee> so it can maximize traverse times.
[02:43:09] <cradek> that's pretty easy to write
[02:43:10] <fenn> you get the most out of your expensive motors that way
[02:43:13] <icee> i understand finding the ideal order is NP-complete and all, but..
[02:43:24] <icee> it can't be hard to do a lot better
[02:43:24] <jepler> I have some software that might help you .. but it's written in python, just like axis
[02:43:35] <icee> cradek: yah.. gerber is basically g-code with aperture definitions
[02:43:40] <cradek> and it only works for closed loops
[02:43:48] <cradek> (but that's good enough for pcbs)
[02:44:27] <icee> also MIT's cam.py doesn't understand the way orcad does copper pours
[02:44:37] <icee> it eats away all the copper where the pour is :P
[02:45:01] <icee> jepler: well, I'm willing to take/look at anything you've got :)
[02:45:33] <jepler> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01103508580
[02:45:52] <icee> ooh, neat
[02:45:54] <cradek> is there any documentation for the format of the special comments?
[02:46:02] <jepler> You can view the README which describes the format of the comments the optimizer recognizes.
[02:46:06] <cradek> aha
[02:46:07] <jepler> </that web page>
[02:46:19] <jepler> oh, look, that link is broken
[02:46:20] <jepler> argh
[02:47:11] <jepler> the correct README link is http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/tsp/Attic/README?rev=;content-type=text%2FplainI
[02:47:14] <jepler> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/tsp/Attic/README?rev=;content-type=text%2Fplain
[02:47:19] <jepler> I'll correct it in that page in just a second
[02:47:24] <icee> yah, i can browse a CVS repos, found it :)
[02:47:38] <jepler> good
[02:47:46] <fenn> hmm... i always knew there was some program out there that converted bitmap to vector, finally found it. "autotrace"
[02:48:34] <icee> fenn: cam.py will also do that
[02:48:50] <icee> you can take a jpeg and it interprets lightness of the pixels as z-depth
[02:49:11] <icee> other than being retarded in strategy, it's nice.
[02:49:32] <icee> hmmm. so i just need to hack on cam.py to make it put comments in the right place
[02:50:04] <jepler> let us know if you have success
[02:50:06] <fenn> no, i mean it takes a scanned image and turns it into smooth lines, like postscript
[02:50:39] <icee> fenn: yah, i believe cam.py does that somewhati ntelligently.. just one of its output formats is gcode *shrug*
[02:50:43] <fenn> http://autotrace.sourceforge.net/scanfont2.gif
[02:50:50] <icee> the downside is uh, it doesn't read any non-lossy formats
[02:50:54] <jepler> cradek: did you have a version of autotrace that worked with tsp? I guess it doesn't always generate closed loops...
[02:50:56] <icee> for images
[02:51:27] <icee> hmm, to nice bezier curves. that's nice.
[02:51:39] <cradek> jepler: I can't remember what I did with autotrace
[02:52:08] <cradek> jepler: I know I made it generate g-code, but it seems like it was pretty good witout optimization
[02:53:10] <fenn> do you guys generate gcode from the eagle files or from the generated artwork or what?
[02:53:18] <jepler> fenn: we have an elaborate "ulp"
[02:53:35] <fenn> big money?
[02:53:43] <jepler> you can pay us for it if you like
[02:53:55] <icee> can't eagle now turn out about the right data?
[02:54:01] <jepler> http://unpy.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/eagle/ulp/gcode.ulp
[02:54:01] <cradek> yes
[02:54:09] <cradek> there are some other ulps on cadsoft.de
[02:54:20] <icee> I just have an orcad license, so.. i use that
[02:54:33] <icee> i'm not planning to mill many boards, really.. mostly i use commercial services
[02:54:40] <fenn> guess i dont know what an "ulp" is
[02:54:59] <jepler> fenn: it's their programming language
[02:55:08] <jepler> it can do stuff like enumerate all the pads, wires, etc in the job
[02:56:09] <fenn> is that cross-compatible with gschem and all the gEDA stuff?
[02:56:14] <jepler> no
[02:56:32] <jepler> the language is one they made up, and their file formats are undocumented at bes
[02:56:35] <jepler> best
[02:56:44] <jepler> I once tried to figure out the brd format but I lost that battle
[04:44:41] <fgleich> hello all
[04:44:54] <fgleich> talking from my new bdi partition
[04:45:04] <fgleich> hooray !
[04:46:14] <fgleich> ok, gotta go and reboot into my other partition to check mail
[04:46:17] <fgleich> bye for now
[04:46:20] <fgleich> :)
[04:46:48] <JimHurlburt> ping cradek
[06:25:27] <K`zan> Heh, slapping together my one mechanical axis is sure interesting and educational :).
[06:28:52] <fenn> don't worry, it gets better
[06:29:09] <fenn> i mean, the difficulties escalate once you get it put together
[06:29:29] <K`zan> Is that like "Cheer up, things will get worse" :-) ?
[06:29:36] <fenn> yeah :)
[06:29:42] <fenn> and on that note, i'm going to bed
[06:29:54] <K`zan> LOL, If I had any sense :)...
[06:30:03] <K`zan> At any rate, rest well, catch ya later.
[07:49:47] <Jymmm> anyone know what disolves axel grease?
[08:38:47] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[08:57:09] <alex_joni> morning guys
[09:13:52] <anonimasu> morning
[09:14:18] <alex_joni> heya anders
[09:14:22] <alex_joni> nice country you got there ;)
[09:14:27] <alex_joni> at least Lund was fantastic
[09:14:38] <alex_joni> err.. sk�ane ;)
[09:15:36] <anonimasu> hm..
[09:15:42] <anonimasu> it's the worst part of the country
[09:15:54] <anonimasu> :D
[09:16:05] <alex_joni> well.. then I definately need to visit your part :D
[09:16:20] <alex_joni> anyways.. Lund was great, not sure about the rest of sk�anw
[09:16:24] <anonimasu> hehe
[09:16:34] <alex_joni> it's a nice city (very quiet, no cars, mostly bikes)
[09:16:41] <alex_joni> university city
[09:18:14] <anonimasu> yep
[09:18:15] <anonimasu> :)
[09:18:37] <alex_joni> so, how've you been?
[09:18:42] <alex_joni> released your code under GPL?
[09:18:49] <alex_joni> *big grin*
[09:23:54] <anonimasu> what code?
[09:23:56] <anonimasu> :D
[09:23:57] <anonimasu> work code?
[09:24:27] <alex_joni> yeah, as Jacky suggested
[09:24:29] <alex_joni> =))
[09:24:35] <alex_joni> ROFLMAO
[09:24:47] <anonimasu> heh
[09:24:55] <anonimasu> jacky comes from wonderland..
[09:25:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders
[09:25:56] <anonimasu> where there exists such a thing as in free beer :D
[09:26:19] <alex_joni> right
[09:33:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heard a rumor there is an hidden island
[09:35:14] <alex_joni> and supposedly all things there are free
[09:35:17] <alex_joni> even beer
[09:35:19] <alex_joni> and software
[09:35:21] <alex_joni> :D
[09:55:09] <K`zan> Night folks!
[10:12:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[13:17:11] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (diff_log maintain keep/E/EmcIni.kp page/E/EmcIni.db): "Auto update wiki from a cron job. Fri Oct 14 12:40:01 BST 2005 "
[13:19:10] <alex_joni> hi les
[13:19:16] <les> hi alex
[13:19:27] <alex_joni> what's new?
[13:19:52] <les> not much. busy. I am taking the day off to do fall chores
[13:20:04] <alex_joni> fall chores? wot's that?
[13:20:10] <les> heh
[13:20:29] <les> tree leaves
[13:20:42] <alex_joni> still don't get it :/
[13:20:43] <les> hmmm...a few hubdred cubic meters
[13:20:51] <les> hundred
[13:20:55] <les> haha
[13:38:46] <cradek> you have leaves down already? fall must come earlier out there.
[13:38:57] <alex_joni> hi chris
[13:39:02] <cradek> hello
[13:39:15] <alex_joni> what's new?
[13:39:17] <cradek> alex_joni: thanks for the second
[13:39:22] <alex_joni> np ;)
[13:40:24] <Yuga> hey there les
[13:41:11] <alex_joni> cradek: ever been to europe?
[13:42:36] <cradek> nope, not yet
[13:43:11] <alex_joni> too bad. it might be worthwhile ;)
[13:43:27] <cradek> yeah, I intend to get there sometime. It's kind of expensive to travel like that.
[13:43:41] <alex_joni> not sure how expensive..
[13:44:40] <cradek> I've only been out of the US to go to canada
[13:44:48] <alex_joni> heh.. that's a country?
[13:44:50] <alex_joni> :P
[13:45:59] <cradek> well, it's where I might end up if the US gets any more crazy
[13:46:11] <cradek> it's the nearest sane place
[13:46:19] <alex_joni> lol.. nice ;)
[13:46:27] <alex_joni> I really liked sweden a LOT
[13:46:39] <cradek> not really nice, I think it's sad
[13:47:03] <cradek> we'll see how 2008-2012 comes out first.
[13:47:13] <cradek> I'm really limited because I only speak English
[13:47:28] <Yuga> morning Jacky^
[13:53:52] <Jacky^> morning guys :)
[13:54:09] <alex_joni> cradek: go to sweden
[13:54:18] <alex_joni> 90% of the population speaks english
[13:54:34] <alex_joni> and swedish is like really bad english, mixed with very bad german :D
[13:55:22] <ValarQ> alex_joni: :P
[13:55:57] <ValarQ> alex_joni: didn't you learn anything from that "mastering swedish" lesson? :P
[13:57:53] <alex_joni> a bit :P
[13:58:01] <alex_joni> can you resend the link? I missplaced it
[14:00:45] <ValarQ> http://www.slayradio.org/mastering_swedish_lesson_3.php
[14:00:59] <ValarQ> oh, there is a new lesson :D
[14:13:07] <ValarQ> alex_joni: can you pronounce "Sjutton generade sjätteklassare sjunger Tjeckiska skitsånger" yet?
[14:13:52] <Jacky^> gulp !
[14:14:57] <alex_joni> ValarQ: almost ;)
[14:15:01] <ValarQ> :)
[14:16:05] <ValarQ> i bet those skånelänningarna was quite impressed ;)
[14:17:28] <alex_joni> lol
[14:17:30] <alex_joni> yeah ;)
[14:17:44] <alex_joni> I almost braged with my swedish knowledge
[14:17:47] <alex_joni> but I didn't ;)
[14:18:31] <alex_joni> Gammal gubbe ger granngumman massagestav
[14:18:41] <ValarQ> heh
[14:21:35] <alex_joni> almost remembered the skitt gott
[14:21:44] <alex_joni> sorry.. skit gott
[14:21:45] <alex_joni> :D
[14:21:51] <alex_joni> err.. skitgott
[14:22:14] <ValarQ> "tasty like excrement" ?
[14:22:23] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[15:00:30] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[15:00:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just put up some new pics: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/poze/suedia/page_01.htm
[15:00:44] <rayh> Hi alex
[15:01:22] <rayh> Nice. I'm on a high speed line right now so I can see them in less than a day.
[15:01:30] <alex_joni> lol.. cool
[15:01:51] <rayh> Is that A and friends in 15?
[15:01:56] <alex_joni> then you might want to look at even more: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/photos.php
[15:02:28] <alex_joni> rayh: some professors from the local college
[15:02:38] <alex_joni> we went together to a meeting there
[15:02:54] <rayh> ah.
[15:09:33] <rayh> I'm at Cardinal Engineering completing the Mazak conversion.
[15:09:50] <alex_joni> oh, nice
[15:09:52] <alex_joni> how's it going?
[15:10:45] <rayh> Good.
[19:47:04] <Jymmm> hye alex
[19:47:26] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[19:47:31] <Jymmm> alex_joni you know what dissolves lithium grease by chance?
[19:47:47] <alex_joni> not sure what that is :)
[19:48:09] <cradek> the white stuff
[19:48:51] <alex_joni> now that helps a lot chris
[19:48:57] <alex_joni> Jymmm: try coke
[19:53:07] <Jymmm> alex_joni and LSD too, huh?
[19:53:30] <alex_joni> you should know that
[19:53:36] <Jymmm> not me
[19:53:56] <alex_joni> well.. not me either
[19:53:56] <Jymmm> I quit smoking pot at 15
[19:54:03] <alex_joni> I never tried it :/
[19:54:13] <Jymmm> never tried pot?
[19:54:19] <alex_joni> nope
[19:54:23] <jepler> me either
[19:54:30] <alex_joni> hey jepler
[19:54:37] <Jymmm> eh, you should try pot at least once in life.
[19:54:46] <alex_joni> jepler: care to comment on some pictures?
[19:54:50] <Jymmm> be sure to have lots of munchies though =)
[19:55:03] <alex_joni> Jymmm: I'll keep that in mind
[19:55:10] <alex_joni> jepler: http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/poze/suedia/page_01.htm
[19:55:22] <Jymmm> For some damn reason one of my ballscrews stalls on the left half of it, but only in one direction.
[19:56:20] <Jymmm> I thought it was light on the grease but it's not. I've already ruined pieces and can't even jog properly now
[19:56:59] <jepler> alex_joni: looking
[19:57:21] <alex_joni> jepler: not very fancy, just some point-and-shoot
[19:57:23] <jepler> alex_joni: ah, chris pointed out #53 to me earlier
[19:57:32] <alex_joni> ahh, ok ;)
[19:57:38] <alex_joni> got a bike on your wishlist?
[19:57:42] <alex_joni> :P
[19:57:57] <Jymmm> and the weirdest damn thing is my bit was caked on with something very hard, but I'm only cutting MDF, I'd expect it from pine or some over sappy woods.
[19:58:03] <cradek> I already have one but can't ride it to work because I'd get killed.
[19:58:22] <alex_joni> how come cradek?
[19:58:39] <cradek> because I'd get killed. seriously.
[19:58:51] <cradek> several miles are only highway, no other route, no shoulder, no sidewalk
[19:58:53] <alex_joni> colleagues at work?
[19:58:55] <alex_joni> or cars?
[19:58:57] <cradek> cars
[19:59:02] <alex_joni> heh
[19:59:08] <cradek> I'm not scared of my colleagues!
[19:59:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni nice shots, but I hate it when the lighting doesn't cooperate like that
[19:59:24] <alex_joni> Jymmm: how come?
[19:59:35] <alex_joni> cradek: I sense a BOFH-like attitude... *g*
[19:59:49] <Jymmm> alex_joni take this one as example... http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/poze/suedia/sweden_26.JPG
[20:00:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni light is ok on one side, but crap on the other.
[20:00:06] <cradek> alex_joni: bah
[20:00:26] <alex_joni> cradek: or was it only my imagination?
[20:00:35] <cradek> alex_joni: I'm a pretty nice guy
[20:00:45] <alex_joni> I know, was just kidding ;)
[20:00:53] <cradek> alex_joni: I'm too old to care whether someone wants to make fun of me
[20:01:02] <cradek> alex_joni: we have several here who bike in regularly
[20:01:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni plans to do that
[20:01:17] <cradek> they are lucky to live near safe bike trails
[20:01:25] <alex_joni> as soon as our company moves to the new location
[20:01:26] <jepler> alex_joni: I like 48 and the other one with the frog in it
[20:01:54] <alex_joni> jepler: I have a few others of those frogs
[20:03:11] <alex_joni> cradek: right now it's about 15-20 mins walking distance away from home (so I drive)
[20:03:24] <alex_joni> but it'll be only 10 mins, so probably I'll ride my bike
[20:03:45] <cradek> I think my commute is 8 miles each way, a nice bike ride but way too long to walk
[20:04:05] <alex_joni> yeah.. but at 8 miles I would probably drive too :)
[20:04:20] <cradek> I would happily walk for 20 mins or bike that!
[20:04:22] <alex_joni> although I used to ride my bike a lot (ages ago)
[20:04:27] <cradek> it would only take a few minutes to bike that far
[20:04:51] <alex_joni> my nicest ride was about 350 km in 2 days
[20:05:08] <cradek> eek
[20:05:12] <alex_joni> up to that mountain house we have
[20:05:12] <cradek> way too far for me
[20:05:17] <Jymmm> alex_joni you sick bastard
[20:05:20] <alex_joni> so about 800m altitude difference
[20:05:26] <cradek> 20 miles is a very long ride for me
[20:05:33] <Jymmm> alex_joni that better have been MOTORcycle
[20:05:41] <alex_joni> Jymmm: nope
[20:05:54] <Jymmm> alex_joni your just twisted then!
[20:06:13] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you should try it once
[20:06:16] <alex_joni> it is great for you
[20:06:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni only on a motorcycle
[20:06:30] <alex_joni> I probably wouldn't be up to that now :P
[20:06:59] <Jymmm> 217 miles, I dont think so
[20:07:36] <cradek> my ass wouldn't feel right for months
[20:08:00] <alex_joni> cradek: the problem was that I had one of those slim seats
[20:08:05] <alex_joni> that was a bad choice ;)
[20:08:09] <cradek> ouch.
[20:08:18] <alex_joni> but the rest was ok
[20:08:33] <alex_joni> I was with a friend, and we didn't push it
[20:08:49] <alex_joni> started in the morning (around 0900) and got there about 2300
[20:09:12] <alex_joni> but the last 7 hours were mainly climbing
[20:09:23] <alex_joni> it was just like on a SW project
[20:10:10] <alex_joni> the first 100 km went pretty fast (8 hours) and the last 50 were a pain (6 hours)
[20:11:32] <alex_joni> ok.. here's a thought
[20:11:42] <alex_joni> who wants to comment on a web-page design?
[20:11:48] <cradek> me me
[20:11:59] <tziOm> just drop the url
[20:12:10] <alex_joni> you probably have seen my old web page
[20:12:19] <alex_joni> http://www.robcon.ro/
[20:12:32] <alex_joni> the new design looks like this: http://www.fv.ro/client/robcon/index.htm
[20:13:52] <jepler> I don't see any words there !?
[20:14:09] <alex_joni> words?
[20:14:15] <jepler> yeah. don't web pages usually have words?
[20:14:23] <alex_joni> it's a design concept
[20:14:31] <alex_joni> for now only as pictures
[20:14:58] <alex_joni> it'll get modified once the design gets accepted
[20:15:01] <tziOm> just couple things that make it look unpro
[20:15:09] <tziOm> cloos font
[20:15:09] <alex_joni> tziOm: shoot
[20:15:25] <tziOm> yellow color on menu.. should be tuned
[20:15:25] <alex_joni> that's a trademark
[20:16:19] <alex_joni> ok, go on
[20:16:23] <cradek> I don't like things that move
[20:16:48] <cradek> I like a web page to layout according to my browser's width
[20:16:50] <tziOm> all the spacing from the top "banner" to the actual content..
[20:16:55] <cradek> (the text should rewrap)
[20:17:34] <cradek> shouldn't you be able to serve up the right language, without me having to choose it? (I see ro/en links at the bottom)
[20:17:41] <tziOm> and.. you should maby keep the [>] from the top banner .. instead of creating new blur round ones..
[20:18:21] <tziOm> ..and the cyan.. why? this color is nowhere else, and dont fit the other colors well
[20:19:14] <jepler> cradek: yes (but it's nice to provide an escape -- for example, imagine someone in an internet cafe not in their home country). http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/content-negotiation.html
[20:19:23] <cradek> jepler: true
[20:19:44] <alex_joni> cradek: it's supposed to serve the customers first
[20:20:08] <alex_joni> http://www.webstats4u.com/s?tab=1&link=3&id=2071331
[20:20:16] <alex_joni> 1.Romania1262286.1 %
[20:20:16] <alex_joni> 2.United States2892.0 %
[20:20:28] <jepler> cradek: debian.org makes extensive use of that, and it seems to work...
[20:20:35] <alex_joni> so I guess now you see why ro is default, and not en
[20:20:53] <cradek> alex_joni: you misunderstood my question
[20:21:06] <alex_joni> ahh.. figure out the language
[20:21:09] <cradek> alex_joni: my browser reports to your server which language I want
[20:21:12] <alex_joni> and serve the right one?
[20:21:15] <cradek> right
[20:21:28] <alex_joni> I see.. well mostly all browsers around here are in english
[20:21:32] <jepler> it's possible that many browsers are misconfigured
[20:21:38] <alex_joni> still.. I'd like to read the content in romanian
[20:21:45] <cradek> really
[20:21:47] <alex_joni> what jepler said
[20:22:00] <alex_joni> I hate romanian menu's
[20:22:05] <alex_joni> can't get acustomed to them
[20:22:10] <cradek> if the whole web turned into pinglatin for me, I'd fix my browser
[20:22:17] <alex_joni> can't find sh*t on a romanian Word(tm)
[20:22:20] <cradek> piglatin even
[20:22:26] <jepler> well you can configure the language your browser requests independently from the language it shows in its menus (well, for firefox anyway..)
[20:22:30] <alex_joni> pinglatin is nice too :)
[20:22:35] <jepler> ponglatin
[20:22:45] <cradek> ok, I retract my comment, I'm monolingual so I don't know the issues.
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> another snip of statistics:
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> 1.Internet Explorer 6.x71.9 %
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> 2.Mozilla Firefox 1.x15.8 %
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> 3.Opera 7.x5.3 %
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> 4.Mozilla 1.x3.5 %
[20:23:16] <alex_joni> 5.Opera 8.x1.8 %
[20:23:43] <alex_joni> so.. ;)
[20:24:00] <alex_joni> not sure IE even has such settings, and actually I don't even want to find out
[20:24:03] <tziOm> dumbass customers
[20:24:06] <tziOm> ;)
[20:24:10] <alex_joni> tziOm: agreed
[20:24:28] <alex_joni> but .. it's their money, so gotta make it attractive to them
[20:24:34] <tziOm> list should be allmost oposite
[20:24:41] <jepler> yet again .. a perfectly good idea shat on by "I don't know if it works on Microsoft"...
[20:25:01] <alex_joni> jepler: how do you mean that?
[20:25:17] <cradek> I sometimes forget that most people's computers don't work as well as mine
[20:25:45] <alex_joni> cradek: you'd be surprised what some people use ...
[20:26:05] <jepler> alex_joni: HTTP accept-language has been in the HTTP spec forever and it works just fine with free software .. yet you're afraid to use it because you think microsoft probably ignored it or got the implementation wrong..
[20:26:27] <alex_joni> jepler: a waste, isn't it :)
[20:26:31] <alex_joni> I'd use it..
[20:26:39] <alex_joni> if it were my homepage
[20:26:51] <alex_joni> actually my homepage is in english..
[20:27:00] <alex_joni> so I don't need that :P
[20:27:29] <tziOm> whats your homepage url?
[20:27:36] <alex_joni> www.juve.ro
[20:27:48] <alex_joni> but that's ages that I worked on that page.. be gentle with me :D
[20:28:23] <jepler> looks fine
[20:28:24] <jepler> it has words
[20:28:38] <alex_joni> lynx opens it just fine
[20:28:52] <alex_joni> actually that's what I use to test a page
[20:29:05] <alex_joni> if I can get most of the content with lynx, it is ok for me
[20:29:09] <alex_joni> or w3m, whatever
[20:29:22] <tziOm> dillo
[20:29:31] <alex_joni> dillo?
[20:29:38] <tziOm> thats the best browser there is
[20:29:46] <alex_joni> never heard of it
[20:29:51] <cradek> I finally fixed the last bug on my web site that made links not work so well
[20:29:57] <cradek> now I'm happy with it
[20:30:06] <alex_joni> but then again.. there are so many "best browser" out there .. :P
[20:30:11] <anonimasu> hm
[20:30:21] <anonimasu> I like firefox..
[20:30:29] <anonimasu> although lynx is good also
[20:30:30] <alex_joni> I was a big opera fan
[20:30:30] <tziOm> firefox is nice..
[20:30:34] <anonimasu> w3m is nice also
[20:30:34] <anonimasu> and opers
[20:30:37] <anonimasu> opera..
[20:30:45] <alex_joni> but I switched to firefox a while ago
[20:30:55] <tziOm> but dillo is superfast! .. not loading all pages nice.. but starts i less than a sec and draws pages superfast too..
[20:31:00] <alex_joni> now I'm thinking of moving to opera again (as it's freeware nowadays)
[20:33:34] <cradek> dillo seems to have no stylesheet support
[20:33:56] <alex_joni> Jacky^: some reading for you http://www.arachnoid.com/freeware/index.html
[20:36:31] <cradek> alex_joni: interesting - I recently found that page somehow too.
[20:36:43] <alex_joni> well.. I took it from your webpage :P
[20:36:48] <cradek> ah
[20:36:51] <alex_joni> so that might be the common thing
[20:37:20] <alex_joni> but I liked this one too: http://www.arachnoid.com/lutusp/alien.html
[20:40:37] <cradek> that's a little much I think.
[20:40:57] <alex_joni> lol, yeah.. but it's fun to read
[20:41:22] <jepler> here's another classic: http://www.terrybisson.com/meatplay.html
[20:42:29] <Jacky^> hey
[20:42:37] <Jacky^> was away ..
[20:42:39] <Jacky^> :)
[20:43:44] <Jacky^> http://www.gnu.org/
[20:43:47] <Jacky^> :P
[20:44:02] <cradek> but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds.
[20:44:04] <cradek> hahahaha
[20:44:28] <alex_joni> jepler: very nice
[20:44:32] <Jacky^> i was thinking .. to get patence on marconi invention
[20:44:36] <Jacky^> mumble mumble ..
[20:44:43] <Jacky^> it was italian
[20:44:45] <Jacky^> :D
[20:44:47] <alex_joni> do I hear meat sounds?
[20:45:58] <Jacky^> http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/cathedral-bazaar/
[20:47:17] <alex_joni> so?
[20:47:29] <Jacky^> what ?
[21:02:58] <anonimasu> hm
[21:03:53] <Jacky^> mmm
[21:04:06] <Jacky^> Shipping quotes DHL---$67.67
[21:04:09] <Jacky^> :\
[21:04:16] <Jacky^> but 2-3 days..
[21:22:17] <K`zan> Morning folks :-)
[21:22:25] <alex_joni> morning
[21:23:14] <K`zan> Humor: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/
[21:23:25] <K`zan> MechAxis1*.jpg files
[21:23:49] <K`zan> It does seem to work pretty well though :-).
[21:24:02] <alex_joni> heh.. coo
[21:24:37] <K`zan> Just using pencil marks, it seems to position and re-position accurately enough I can't tell any difference.
[21:24:59] <alex_joni> you might wanna use some bearings :D
[21:25:09] <K`zan> Duct tape, the handypersons secret weapon :).
[21:25:23] <alex_joni> sounds MacGiver-like
[21:25:25] <alex_joni> ROFL
[21:25:32] <K`zan> This is just a "see what they hell I get" thingie.
[21:25:46] <alex_joni> ok.. then it's great
[21:25:55] <alex_joni> seen my "see what they hell I get" thingie ?
[21:25:58] <K`zan> Bore three holes in the base and add a second axis...
[21:26:04] <K`zan> Not that I know of ???
[21:26:07] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/
[21:28:16] <K`zan> .ro ? Romania?
[21:28:34] <alex_joni> yeah.. usually
[21:28:39] <K`zan> :-)
[21:28:44] <K`zan> Nifty
[21:31:26] <K`zan> Could make an interesting live fire course with a BB gun :-). Better than a cat for challenge ;-).
[21:31:34] <K`zan> LOL
[21:31:43] <alex_joni> BB gun ?
[21:31:51] <K`zan> .177 cal air rifle.
[21:32:08] <alex_joni> if you say so :D
[21:32:29] <K`zan> You would learn to shoot intuitively if you were to hit that at all, programming for that would be fun too :-).
[21:32:44] <K`zan> What is the purpose of it?
[21:32:56] <alex_joni> it was just the proof of concept for kinematics
[21:33:01] <alex_joni> works with emc2 though ;)
[21:33:10] <K`zan> Ah, still nifty
[21:33:24] <K`zan> Programming must have been fun.
[21:33:42] <alex_joni> that was the easiest part
[21:33:42] <alex_joni> :D
[21:33:47] <K`zan> LOL
[21:33:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni plans on making a bigger version some day
[21:34:03] <alex_joni> actually the whole thing took me about 2 days to build
[21:34:12] <K`zan> Discovering what not having some good metal tools means :-(.
[21:34:14] <alex_joni> and about 2 months to think about it =))
[21:34:20] <K`zan> Not bad *at all*
[21:34:22] <alex_joni> I did have good metal tools :D
[21:34:25] <K`zan> LOL, that is the biggie.
[21:34:36] <alex_joni> my company sells welding & cutting equipment
[21:34:40] <K`zan> Lucky you
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> so it's plasma cut, and spot welded
[21:34:45] <alex_joni> :D
[21:34:45] <K`zan> VERY lucky you
[21:34:56] <K`zan> Sigh, <ENVY>
[21:35:56] <alex_joni> heh.. no need for envy ,)
[21:36:51] <K`zan> No matter how well this works, manually programming the AVR to do something would be a constant JOB, to be kind.
[21:37:51] <K`zan> Thing runs about 10 seconds / inch. Can get it less but below a delay of (my "special" delay routine LOL) of about 14 it starts missing steps.
[21:38:14] <K`zan> Down to about 6-7 seconds, not worth it though.
[21:53:16] <Jymmm> rayh got a new ISP ?
[21:53:42] <Jymmm> rayh or jsut stealing the neighbors wifi connection?
[21:54:05] <rayh> I'm on the road these days.
[21:54:11] <alex_joni> he's working.. cut him some slack :D
[21:54:31] <rayh> I wish I had these kinds of connections.
[21:54:31] <Jymmm> rayh Ah, ok. Thought you might have gotten lucky
[21:54:55] <rayh> I just heard about some antennas that boost gain by 100db.
[21:55:08] <rayh> gotta get two and put up a tower in my yard.
[21:55:12] <alex_joni> rayh: you don't need 100db for your neighbor's
[21:55:25] <Jymmm> 100db?! sounds a lil like horseshit to me...
[21:55:32] <rayh> We are all looking at about 5 miles.
[21:55:33] <Jymmm> a la snake oil
[21:55:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni did 5km with self built antennas
[21:56:22] <rayh> Really.
[21:56:33] <alex_joni> really
[21:56:36] <Jymmm> I can do 40 miles with a rubber ducky, but it's not wifi
[21:56:44] <alex_joni> smoke?
[21:56:55] <rayh> How about whipping up something for 8 and you got a deal.
[21:57:02] <Jymmm> no, my HT with 1/2 watt
[21:57:05] <alex_joni> heh.. :)
[21:57:17] <Jymmm> Kenwood TH-D7a
[21:57:18] <alex_joni> rayh: it's easy for you over there
[21:57:27] <alex_joni> 200mW power restriction
[21:57:32] <alex_joni> it's 100mW over here
[21:57:43] <alex_joni> and most devices only do 50mW
[21:58:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, unlicensed stuff is limited like that
[21:58:13] <rayh> So I should look for a 200mW wireless router.
[21:58:40] <Jymmm> rayh you could alwasy go the microwave stuff, but the gear is not cheap
[21:58:41] <alex_joni> a lot of them out there
[21:58:46] <alex_joni> or.. get a simple router
[21:58:53] <alex_joni> and use an amp just before the antenna
[21:59:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni not gonna do a lot of good for Rx though
[21:59:43] <Jymmm> the OTHER guy needs the amp too.
[21:59:48] <alex_joni> right
[21:59:49] <alex_joni> so?
[22:00:15] <Jymmm> you gonna build the amps?
[22:00:30] <rayh> I know a guy who built a 2k+ linear for 13Gig ham.
[22:00:33] <Jymmm> have you seen wifi amps?
[22:00:46] <Jymmm> rayh well a linear is a lil different =)
[22:00:55] <alex_joni> Jymmm: http://www.hyperlinktech.com/web/24ghz_high_power_802.11_amplifiers.php
[22:00:58] <rayh> There are such things as wifi amps.
[22:01:26] <Jymmm> lol $3000
[22:01:33] <alex_joni> yeah, but 25W !!!
[22:01:39] <rayh> I helped build a 1kw linear for 40 meters when I was about 12 years old.
[22:01:47] <alex_joni> that's more than the military are allowed
[22:01:49] <alex_joni> ROFL
[22:02:28] <Jymmm> alex_joni "These amplifier products are available only for export, military, licensed amateur radio and OEM component sales only and are not offered for general sale within the USA."
[22:02:29] <rayh> Two guys I knew were amateur extra class then when the class was just started.
[22:02:48] <rayh> It was a lot like the old west. Shoot whatever you've got.
[22:02:53] <Jymmm> rayh you are is showing again =)
[22:02:56] <Jymmm> age
[22:03:42] <rayh> Yes I am. You really want to put a date on me, I built an RCA color tv from the Heath Kit.
[22:04:20] <Jymmm> * Jymmm waits for rayh to say something like... "In my day we didn't have electricity, we had to use silk worms and sheep rubbed together to create our own power"
[22:04:23] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you got it all wrong
[22:04:34] <alex_joni> his experience is showing again ;)
[22:04:54] <rayh> Tried some of those techniques also.
[22:05:12] <rayh> waterwheel vandegraf generator.
[22:05:14] <Jymmm> rayh: I miss HeathKit. Not so much from building their stuff as much as finding such neet stuff.
[22:05:38] <rayh> So true.
[22:05:41] <Jymmm> I'd love to have their atomic clock
[22:05:46] <Jymmm> Rev 2
[22:06:06] <Jymmm> on ebay they're like $250
[22:06:50] <rayh> I should have ordered and built a thousand and stashed them away.
[22:07:14] <rayh> can you say Retirement Fund?
[22:07:20] <Jymmm> NON-WORKING and the bidding is at $112 ---> http://cgi.ebay.com/Heathkit-GC-1000H-Most-Accurate-WWV-Clock_W0QQitemZ5817682352QQcategoryZ79847QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:07:41] <rayh> wah!
[22:08:47] <rayh> coffee break is over -- on to the next crisis.
[22:08:54] <Jymmm> oh ray, you know what will dissolve lithium grease by chance?
[22:09:05] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh-away
[22:09:08] <K`zan> Hard radiation ?
[22:09:11] <K`zan> :-)
[22:09:22] <rayh-away> Have you tried gasoline.
[22:09:33] <Jymmm> rayh-away nope
[22:10:23] <rayh-away> It would probably take a bit but I'd think it would soften it up enough.
[22:10:38] <rayh-away> What is it on?
[22:12:37] <Jymmm> ballscrew
[22:13:09] <K`zan> Is everyone laughing at my first mechanical axis thing :-) ?
[22:13:51] <rayh-away> Ah. Do you have a lube port on the nut?
[22:15:49] <Jymmm> no
[22:15:52] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:15:58] <anonimasu> lithium grease ew
[22:16:45] <rayh-away> anonimasu: You are a SF developer now.
[22:16:54] <anonimasu> rayh-away: ^_^
[22:17:23] <anonimasu> that means I actually have to start contributing isnt that right?
[22:17:34] <alex_joni> you bet your ass it means exactly that
[22:17:38] <rayh-away> YES IT DOES!
[22:17:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu cries
[22:17:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sets up a deadline on the USC driver
[22:18:11] <rayh-away> 2 hours?
[22:18:12] <anonimasu> alex_joni: if you could help me to get started on it ;)
[22:18:59] <rayh-away> Jymmm: Cleaning solvent would also work.
[22:19:04] <alex_joni> rayh-away: give him 2 weeks
[22:19:12] <alex_joni> anonimasu: still not working?
[22:19:17] <anonimasu> alex_joni: working?
[22:19:21] <alex_joni> or get started on the driver?
[22:19:28] <rayh-away> Wipe the open parts of the screw down really well.
[22:19:31] <anonimasu> ah, getting started with writing a driver..
[22:19:38] <rayh-away> Drip some as you turn the nut.
[22:19:42] <alex_joni> don't see a problem in doing that
[22:19:42] <anonimasu> what end do I begin with..
[22:19:50] <alex_joni> but I need to finish on the STG first
[22:19:59] <rayh-away> and you'll see the stuff being drug out by the screw.
[22:20:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prepared an encoder for tomorrow
[22:20:14] <alex_joni> so hopefully I'll finish testing the driver tomorrow
[22:20:18] <alex_joni> the rest is done & working
[22:20:22] <rayh-away> Keep the load off it until you get pretty clean solvent coming through.
[22:20:23] <alex_joni> adc, dac, i/o
[22:20:35] <anonimasu> I cant wait until I can try the USC with emc2..
[22:20:37] <rayh-away> and then let it all dry for a while.
[22:20:40] <anonimasu> I dont like emc1.
[22:20:46] <rayh-away> then oil and work.
[22:20:59] <anonimasu> I've had too many scary experiences with it ;)
[22:21:14] <rayh-away> Man I would love a serial device controller.
[22:21:44] <anonimasu> what do you mean?
[22:21:58] <rayh-away> I've even thought that we might be able to make a simple protocol as a set of text files
[22:22:07] <anonimasu> I've thought about that..
[22:22:13] <anonimasu> I've got a plc ready for that kind of thing ;)
[22:22:18] <rayh-away> and just dump them through the serial as needed.
[22:22:20] <anonimasu> for running toolchanges or maybe a robot..
[22:22:45] <rayh-away> I've got devicenet, can, and a couple other odd things.
[22:23:03] <anonimasu> hm, can > emc?
[22:23:06] <rayh-away> I can test when you get it setup.
[22:23:15] <anonimasu> the plc?
[22:23:42] <alex_joni> rayh-away: that might not be very far away
[22:23:44] <rayh-away> AutomationDirect and older uh... lost the name
[22:23:48] <alex_joni> remember the german guys I talked to you about?
[22:24:09] <alex_joni> if they decide to use emc2, then they'll need CAN
[22:24:23] <rayh-away> Right. Till Franitza had a student working on something like that in Stuttgart.
[22:24:53] <alex_joni> other german guys ;)
[22:24:55] <alex_joni> but same area
[22:25:09] <rayh-away> I think that FredP and WillS have worked on an EMC that is responsive to external interrupts.
[22:25:29] <anonimasu> nice
[22:25:48] <alex_joni> not nice
[22:25:51] <rayh-away> No clue where any of this is though or how ready.
[22:26:02] <anonimasu> why not?
[22:26:06] <alex_joni> imho RT != interrupts
[22:26:07] <alex_joni> :D
[22:26:20] <anonimasu> alex_joni: there are stuff that's important..
[22:26:27] <anonimasu> estop from a plc..
[22:26:29] <anonimasu> or stuff like that..
[22:26:36] <alex_joni> :P
[22:26:40] <alex_joni> RT is polling
[22:26:44] <alex_joni> say what you want :)
[22:26:51] <anonimasu> robot_gone_mad()
[22:26:51] <alex_joni> if you got serious stuff, do it often
[22:26:52] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:27:00] <alex_joni> watchdogs are for that
[22:27:07] <anonimasu> hm yeah
[22:27:17] <anonimasu> *compiles emc2*
[22:28:35] <anonimasu> what I long for most is a jog wheel to be honest..
[22:29:35] <anonimasu> being without one is very very annoying when making parts.. :)
[22:30:27] <anonimasu> rayh-away: about can and stuff how integrated are we talking..
[22:47:32] <rayh-away> I don't know how much progress was made on any of these systems.
[22:48:04] <rayh-away> If I remember, FredP was working on something similar to an external
[22:48:24] <rayh-away> trigger that would work the same as PERIOD does internal.
[22:49:28] <rayh-away> Instead of the timing coming out of EMC it would come from outside
[22:50:17] <rayh-away> Something like grabbing the oscillator from an FPGA and syncing rt to that
[22:50:35] <rayh-away> rather than asking the FPGA to wait for timing from EMC.
[22:50:52] <rayh-away> And that is more than I know and much more than I understand.
[22:51:30] <anonimasu> hm yeah
[22:57:31] <anonimasu> brb, resting ab it
[23:04:18] <Jymmm> rayh-away: define "cleaning solvent" for me? Also, is lithium grease what I shoul dbe using on the ballscrews, or can you suggest something different?
[23:04:43] <Jymmm> something I could pick up at an autoparts store would be prefered.
[23:05:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni uses Optimol Longtime PD0 grease usually
[23:05:17] <Jymmm> wth is that?
[23:05:46] <alex_joni> http://www.itotal21.com/optimol/PD0.pdf
[23:05:47] <Jymmm> someone also suggested: "almost any polar solvent will do
[23:05:48] <Jymmm> kerosene, charcoal lighter - all good.
[23:05:49] <Jymmm> "
[23:06:15] <Jymmm> carb cleaner, gasoline
[23:06:43] <Jymmm> alex_joni Yeah, but you get that from work dont ya?
[23:06:51] <alex_joni> yup
[23:07:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni now, wth hell would that do me unless you are gonna ship some to me
[23:07:25] <alex_joni> you must be able to get smthg like that in the us
[23:08:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni maybe, but I'm not gonna buy 42 cases to get any either.
[23:08:25] <alex_joni> I usually use it in 300g containers
[23:08:43] <Jymmm> lithuium grease in tubes from the autoparts store is $4 and available everywhere
[23:08:45] <alex_joni> under a pound
[23:09:41] <alex_joni> this is about 14 euro here
[23:09:43] <alex_joni> so not much
[23:09:50] <alex_joni> and it's really good stuff
[23:10:05] <Jymmm> The problem is availability, not quality
[23:10:27] <Jymmm> I'd pay $20, but I don't want to have to wait 3 weeks for it either.
[23:10:39] <alex_joni> well.. you got one of the biggest robot manufacturers over there
[23:10:41] <alex_joni> iirc ;)
[23:10:50] <alex_joni> they should sell some grease afaik
[23:11:28] <alex_joni> how about the guys you got the machine from?
[23:11:47] <Jymmm> lol they didn't even shipped it lubed at all
[23:12:05] <alex_joni> you might want to ask them for a suppier for lube
[23:12:42] <Jymmm> well, is there a reason NOT to use lithium grease?
[23:12:49] <alex_joni> no idea
[23:12:50] <alex_joni> :D
[23:13:18] <Jymmm> ok, $4 for three tubes it is!
[23:13:31] <alex_joni> sounds a bit cheap :D
[23:13:58] <Jymmm> it's whats at the autoparts store.
[23:16:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is tired
[23:16:39] <alex_joni> going to bed soon
[23:17:22] <Jymmm> I'm finding that the availability of things anymore is getting harder and harder. If I use Lube A now, then can't get it later, I have to strip it all down and apply Lube B. I'd rather use thing that I can get from almost anywhere if it's not THAT critical
[23:31:11] <rayh-away> Catch you later Alex. Thanks for all the help.
[23:31:29] <alex_joni> later rayh-away
[23:36:07] <K`zan> Jymmm: http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/CNC/
[23:36:25] <K`zan> MechAxis1 pix, works pretty well, surprisingly enough.
[23:37:23] <K`zan> Need to hook up a micrometer to the "table" :-) and see how it does, from just using pencil marks, it appears to be right one (forward to and backward to).
[23:52:50] <alindeman> {Global Notice} Hi all. We are aware that some channels were cleared and are currently inaccessible. We are isolating a cause currently and are correcting cmodes on channels that were affected. If you are still having trouble joining an affected channel, let a freenode staffer ( /stats p ) know. Thank you.
[23:53:09] <anonimasu> K`zan: is that normal threaded rod?