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[00:01:14] <Jacky^> hope she understand howto register a nick ..
[00:01:16] <Jacky^> :\
[00:03:03] <anonimasu> do you know her in real life?
[00:03:18] <Jacky^> not yet ..
[00:03:26] <Jacky^> just at cell phone
[00:03:34] <Jacky^> some days yet :P
[00:03:39] <anonimasu> ah well, just call her and tell her how to do it.
[00:03:47] <Jacky^> yup
[00:03:52] <Jacky^> seen the photos
[00:03:55] <Jacky^> :)
[00:04:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has to go to a customer tomorrow
[00:04:24] <anonimasu> one at morning for some testing..
[00:04:30] <anonimasu> and the other one for a upgrade
[00:04:46] <Jacky^> i hope to receive this damn reply from gecko ..
[00:05:12] <Jacky^> wiatinf for a Proforma Invoice
[00:05:17] <Jacky^> waiting
[00:06:23] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ listen pink floyd
[00:10:39] <anonimasu> I am listening to turbonegro ;)
[00:10:47] <anonimasu> some norwegian metal band..
[00:11:09] <Jacky^> :P
[00:11:14] <Jacky^> cnc metal band
[00:11:35] <Jacky^> :)
[00:12:35] <Jacky^> i love gilmoure
[00:12:50] <Jacky^> i play the guitar .. a little
[00:13:03] <anonimasu> me does too
[00:13:08] <Jacky^> at the same as i speak english :)
[00:13:13] <Jacky^> ive 2 guitar
[00:14:13] <Jacky^> right this afternoon, i was thinking if is possibile to machine a guitar..
[00:14:22] <Jacky^> probably, yes
[00:14:41] <Jacky^> the material is the big prob
[00:14:43] <anonimasu> it is..
[00:14:48] <anonimasu> why is it?
[00:15:03] <Jacky^> i seen some carved guitar ..
[00:15:45] <anonimasu> what's he trouble you can buy all kinds of wood..
[00:15:46] <Jacky^> http://www.goldenboulder.org.uk/scorpion.htm
[00:17:08] <Jacky^> i think they use to stick togheter wood layers
[00:17:19] <Jacky^> with preassure..
[00:21:47] <Jacky^> maybe les can do it :)
[00:22:06] <Jacky^> ive not enough tools
[00:22:20] <anonimasu> I dont get this..
[00:22:27] <anonimasu> why cant you press the layers togther?
[00:22:49] <Jacky^> because my weight isnt 200 ton :\
[00:23:12] <anonimasu> I am sure you wont need that much weught
[00:23:13] <anonimasu> weight..
[00:23:29] <anonimasu> have you seen the lp hollowbody project on cnczone?
[00:23:39] <Jacky^> nope..
[00:23:49] <anonimasu> hm search for it ;)
[00:23:58] <anonimasu> you dont have to make the guitar layered either..
[00:24:35] <Jacky^> mmhh .. would be good
[00:24:41] <anonimasu> what?
[00:25:13] <Jacky^> do it without layered and pressure tool
[00:26:39] <anonimasu> the machining of the body would be pretty easy..
[00:26:49] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[00:26:52] <anonimasu> the hard thing would be the dovetail on the neck..
[00:27:00] <anonimasu> but with the right tools that wouldnt be too hard either..
[00:27:34] <Jacky^> anonimasu: i will try ..
[00:27:51] <Jacky^> hi Anastasia
[00:27:52] <anonimasu> :)
[00:27:56] <Jacky^> welcome
[00:28:01] <Jacky^> :D
[00:28:52] <anonimasu> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7033&highlight=les+paul
[00:29:10] <anonimasu> enjoy
[00:30:13] <Jacky^> anonimasu: thanks
[00:30:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu craves for a telecaster
[00:30:53] <Anastasia> Jacky^ es all: Just K`zan on the development box. Almost there :-)
[00:31:13] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:31:37] <anonimasu> or a strat..
[00:31:44] <Anastasia> bloody m$ isn't bright enough to tell it shouldn't wipe the MBR, pathetic...
[00:32:44] <Anastasia> rebooting - brb
[00:34:12] <Jacky^> -> i=kats@62.123.215.205] has joined #emc
[00:34:15] <Jacky^> mmmh ...
[00:34:32] <Jacky^> it seem remember me something ..
[00:34:47] <Jacky^> damn
[00:38:26] <anonimasu> hm
[02:12:53] <les> quiet night!
[02:13:03] <Jacky^> ~ciao les
[02:13:08] <les> hi jacky
[02:15:06] <Jacky^> :)
[02:16:19] <les> I did not get enough sleep last night I think
[02:16:28] <les> slowing down a little
[02:16:57] <Jacky^> les: good
[02:17:20] <les> heh
[02:17:21] <Jacky^> when is needed.. is needed
[02:17:26] <les> yeah
[02:17:39] <Jacky^> i don like to sleep much
[02:17:46] <Jacky^> but during the summer
[02:17:57] <Jacky^> short days ..
[02:18:16] <Jacky^> here is starting the cold..
[02:18:32] <les> not yet here
[02:18:35] <Jacky^> now is nice to sleep some hour more
[02:18:48] <Jacky^> heres raining :\
[02:18:58] <les> days still 25 degrees +
[02:19:07] <les> but soon
[02:19:09] <Jacky^> mhh
[02:19:11] <les> very soon
[02:19:17] <les> 0
[02:19:18] <Jacky^> here about 15
[02:19:36] <Jacky^> but its strange wheater ..
[02:20:00] <les> right now 20 here
[02:20:37] <Jacky^> 20 is nice temperature
[02:20:43] <les> yes
[02:20:52] <les> perfect for night time
[02:20:57] <les> no heat
[02:21:02] <Jacky^> yeah
[02:21:04] <les> no air conditioning
[02:21:34] <Jacky^> we used in june-july
[02:21:41] <Jacky^> not august ..
[02:22:41] <les> in the workshop we keep the climate to 40-60%RH 15-25 degrees year round
[02:22:50] <les> so the wood will be stable
[02:23:01] <Jacky^> nice
[02:23:09] <Jacky^> i know ..
[02:23:19] <les> oh you were looking at inlay earlier
[02:23:27] <les> cnc is very good for that
[02:23:30] <Jacky^> yeah ..
[02:23:44] <Jacky^> i found something
[02:23:50] <les> ?
[02:23:59] <Jacky^> as projects
[02:24:09] <Jacky^> oh ..
[02:24:12] <les> I saw your picture of a box
[02:24:14] <Jacky^> about inlay yeah
[02:24:22] <Jacky^> yeah..
[02:24:44] <Jacky^> i like it
[02:25:02] <Jacky^> i was thinking to made an inkpot for my brother
[02:25:13] <les> our latest turkey call design has inlay...you saw it I think
[02:25:16] <Jacky^> but, im not sure ..
[02:25:47] <Jacky^> les: nice, i love inlay jobs
[02:26:09] <Jacky^> the problem is to found goos wood
[02:26:23] <Jacky^> so, after worked, it can move ..
[02:26:27] <Jacky^> you know
[02:26:36] <les> plenty here
[02:26:37] <Jacky^> here is a bit difficult to get
[02:26:47] <les> really
[02:27:10] <Jacky^> where am I yes..
[02:27:11] <les> I had a link...let me check
[02:27:37] <Jacky^> ive some old piece here
[02:27:56] <Jacky^> but 5x30 cm
[02:28:34] <Jacky^> ive not much experience with wood too ..
[02:28:40] <les> http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/gallery.pl?read=311601
[02:28:58] <les> the dyed veneers are from italy I think
[02:29:20] <Jacky^> wow
[02:29:28] <Jacky^> wonderful
[02:29:40] <Jacky^> :)
[02:30:00] <Jacky^> bookmarked :)
[02:30:10] <Jacky^> great jobs
[02:30:44] <Jacky^> i bought some mounth ago my fist wood table
[02:31:09] <Jacky^> about 3 mt lenght 4 cm thickness
[02:31:23] <les> I buy veneer usually in 2 meter lengths
[02:31:30] <Jacky^> after i cut in half .. it become curved
[02:31:35] <Jacky^> :\
[02:31:35] <les> sometimes 3
[02:31:42] <Jacky^> yeah
[02:32:05] <Jacky^> youe a great experience on wood
[02:32:08] <les> oh...yes you often have to let the wood stabilise
[02:32:21] <Jacky^> i choosed a wrong table
[02:32:30] <Jacky^> too ..
[02:32:54] <Jacky^> the cut direction was wrong
[02:32:56] <les> We use moisture meters to determine if the wood will be stable
[02:33:08] <Jacky^> only after, someone tell it to me ..
[02:33:17] <les> I see
[02:33:30] <les> well now you know
[02:33:36] <Jacky^> yeah
[02:33:54] <les> wood changes size a lot with moisture
[02:34:09] <Jacky^> it move..
[02:34:13] <les> yes
[02:34:24] <les> some more than others
[02:34:35] <les> woods that move little:
[02:34:41] <les> mahogany
[02:34:46] <les> teak
[02:34:50] <les> redwood
[02:34:54] <les> cedar
[02:35:04] <les> woods that move a lot:
[02:35:08] <les> oak
[02:35:09] <Jacky^> pine ?
[02:35:12] <les> maple
[02:35:29] <les> pine is medium
[02:36:20] <Jacky^> my windows here are in douglas
[02:36:33] <Jacky^> i dont know if is the correct name
[02:36:35] <les> wood for furniture should dry to about 7% moisture
[02:36:41] <Jacky^> but should be douglas
[02:36:41] <les> douglas fir
[02:36:47] <les> very nice wood
[02:36:53] <Jacky^> yeah
[02:36:56] <Jacky^> compact
[02:37:29] <Jacky^> first time i used flatting vernice for boats
[02:37:30] <les> douglas fir has a very high strenght to weight ratio
[02:37:37] <Jacky^> but after some year
[02:37:42] <les> long ago airplanes were made of it
[02:37:54] <Jacky^> i swiched to teak oil
[02:38:00] <Jacky^> it seem good ..
[02:38:14] <Jacky^> any year i do it ..
[02:38:39] <les> good oil finishes are linseed and tung
[02:38:48] <Jymmm> boiled linseed oil?
[02:39:13] <Jacky^> i spent any time abou E. 30 for liter
[02:39:18] <les> yes...boiled really means organomettalic catalytic driers are added
[02:39:59] <Jymmm> les : I use boiled linseed oil for oiling gardening tools (won't harm the plants)... so, just rub it on/in the wood?
[02:40:07] <les> E.30/l ??!!! here about 5
[02:40:25] <les> yeah pretty much
[02:40:28] <Jymmm> $4/pint
[02:40:39] <Jacky^> les: yeah ..
[02:40:39] <les> yhat stuff on my site is mostly linseed
[02:40:39] <Jymmm> $4 USD/pint
[02:40:43] <Jacky^> a lot :(
[02:41:13] <les> pint=.5 liter
[02:41:14] <Jymmm> I found some really neat hardwood today... though I can't pronounce the name of it
[02:41:28] <les> what?
[02:42:01] <Jymmm> hold on, I forgot the name
[02:42:12] <Jymmm> has a couple 'p's in it
[02:42:23] <les> ppwood.
[02:42:44] <Jacky^> plywood ?
[02:42:49] <les> haha
[02:42:57] <les> pplywood
[02:42:57] <Jacky^> :)
[02:43:05] <Jacky^> never eard
[02:43:10] <Jymmm> it could be paduak
[02:43:22] <les> is it really red?
[02:43:23] <Jacky^> black ?
[02:43:28] <Jacky^> oh.. red..
[02:43:46] <Jymmm> yeah, it's pretty red, nice very nice grain in it
[02:43:54] <les> red, hard, good figure, expensive?
[02:44:25] <Jymmm> $1.59 for a 2.5" x 10" piece 3/4" thick
[02:44:38] <Jymmm> it was the cheapest hardwood they had
[02:44:49] <Jymmm> even walnut was more expensive
[02:45:16] <Jymmm> I like it becasue it has a shimmer to the grain
[02:45:56] <les> this it?
[02:45:57] <Jymmm> I looked at some cherry too... man, that's some ugly stuff.
[02:46:08] <les> http://www.ellisguitars.com/Padauk.html
[02:46:16] <Jymmm> les ot looks like this
http://www.constantines.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1299
[02:47:10] <Jacky^> nicee
[02:47:21] <les> ok I have some.
[02:47:29] <Jacky^> i like this
http://www.constantines.com/burl1_store.jpg
[02:47:29] <les> 20 board feet or so.
[02:47:36] <Jymmm> never seen a raw piece of wood shimmer so much before.
[02:48:14] <Jymmm> I aint looking at burlwood.... not after today $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$4
[02:48:16] <les> as the padouk or burl?
[02:48:26] <Jymmm> padouk
[02:48:45] <les> it is also known as african vermillion
[02:48:49] <Jymmm> but I hate to say it, but I'm not sure that it what I got (I forgot to write down the name of it)
[02:49:01] <les> it does turn brown after many years
[02:49:02] <Jymmm> pepon
[02:49:26] <les> that does not ring a bell
[02:49:57] <Jacky^> ive the indoor doors in oak
[02:50:02] <Jymmm> yeah I just cant remember the name of it. They have bins of hardwood pieces, I'll go back sometime and write it all down
[02:50:18] <Jacky^> they seem changed a little color too ..
[02:50:23] <Jacky^> more yellow
[02:50:39] <Jacky^> after 5 years
[02:50:41] <les> I have to buy the curly tiger maple for this year's call production soon
[02:50:46] <Jymmm> they had some exotive hardwoods that I would hate to be hit with they are so dense.
[02:50:54] <les> yeah
[02:51:04] <Jymmm> even an 8" piece was awefully dense.
[02:51:28] <Jymmm> denser than aluminum, that's for sure.
[02:52:12] <les> padouk, ebony, jatoba,rosewood...all heavy
[02:52:30] <Jymmm> denser than teakwood or cocobolo
[02:52:53] <Jymmm> something like $35/BF
[02:53:19] <les> some very heavy woods in the US too...
[02:53:20] <Jacky^> what if BF ?
[02:53:39] <les> hop hornbeam, dogwood, persimmon
[02:53:44] <Jacky^> is
[02:53:56] <Jymmm> persimmon is a hardwood?
[02:53:56] <les> and mangrove
[02:54:01] <les> yes
[02:54:11] <les> it is in the ebony family
[02:54:23] <Jymmm> hmmm, I know where a 16" wide tree is =)
[02:54:31] <Jymmm> 16'
[02:54:44] <Jacky^> haha
[02:54:44] <les> I have a few dozen growing here
[02:54:53] <Jacky^> Jymmm: want to cut it ?
[02:54:59] <Jymmm> les make any wine?
[02:55:09] <les> no just beer
[02:55:21] <Jymmm> oh, I'm thinking pomigranite
[02:55:22] <les> but I was visiting the winery yesterday
[02:55:33] <Jymmm> pomigranite wine
[02:55:53] <Jacky^> Jymmm: for a good wine , we've it :
http://www.linardi.com/
[02:56:03] <Jacky^> I can send you some bottle :)
[02:56:19] <les> just down the street...
[02:56:23] <Jacky^> i dont know this year ..
[02:56:24] <les> http://www.tigerwine.com/news.html
[02:56:31] <Jymmm> Jacky^ i *HATE* wine. I even used to work in a winery and got free wine all the time. I just give it away.
[02:56:46] <Jacky^> Jymmm: i'm sure
[02:57:15] <Jacky^> your place is pretty similar to mine
[02:57:32] <Jymmm> Jacky^ me and the gf thought it tasted like shit, gave bottles to a friend and he said it was pretty good.
[02:57:33] <Jacky^> but you dont have this* wine ..
[02:57:45] <Jacky^> it is international
[02:57:48] <Jacky^> ciro'
[02:58:02] <Jacky^> about 60 km from me
[02:58:17] <les> I am a little allergic to grapes I think!
[02:58:34] <Jymmm> les try a bottle of tequilia just to be sure
[02:58:39] <les> haha
[02:58:46] <Jacky^> :)
[02:59:24] <les> actually I was at the vinyard because we sometimes cnc carve wine barrels with emc
[02:59:46] <Jacky^> wow
[02:59:47] <Jymmm> ah, cool
[02:59:51] <Jacky^> nice job
[02:59:54] <Jacky^> hehe
[03:00:01] <les> also, we had politics to talk about
[03:00:14] <les> we are trying to stop some development
[03:00:17] <Jacky^> good
[03:00:19] <Jymmm> les you'll have to send me the drawings/gcode sometime. there are a lot of wineries in the area
[03:00:29] <Jacky^> i never tried wine from there ..
[03:00:44] <Jacky^> italy has a great tradiction about wine
[03:00:53] <les> v carve their logo on the barrel ends...they love it
[03:00:55] <Jacky^> is difficult here to see imported wine
[03:00:58] <Jymmm> yeah, all italians are winos!
[03:01:05] <Jacky^> france too ..
[03:01:08] <Jacky^> maybe
[03:01:11] <les> I'm a beero.
[03:01:11] <Jymmm> lol
[03:01:24] <Jymmm> I'm a Jose Quervo !
[03:01:29] <les> hahaha
[03:01:59] <Jymmm> les tell me about clearcoats on wood
[03:02:16] <Jymmm> I've been using polyurinthane and I like it, but is it the best to use.
[03:02:34] <les> well... different ones have different effects
[03:02:44] <Jacky^> for wine ?
[03:03:05] <Jacky^> nahh ..
[03:03:10] <les> PU is usually isocyanate modified alkyd plyester/vegetable oil based
[03:03:11] <Jacky^> wood is wood
[03:03:23] <Jymmm> Jacky^ Yeah, we put polyurithane in wine over here.
[03:03:24] <les> polyester
[03:03:27] <les> bleh
[03:03:42] <Jacky^> Jymmm: also here.. is useful, but not the same thing
[03:04:00] <Jacky^> is fast
[03:04:03] <les> PU is usually amber and best on dark woods
[03:04:09] <Jacky^> no need maintainance
[03:04:31] <Jymmm> I PU some red oak... really nice
[03:04:39] <Jymmm> brought out the grain and color
[03:04:43] <les> yeah
[03:04:58] <les> then there is nitro lacquer
[03:04:59] <Jymmm> and PU is some tough stuff too.
[03:05:05] <les> sprayed
[03:05:06] <Jymmm> I haven't tried snading it yet.
[03:05:10] <Jymmm> spray can
[03:05:20] <les> that is on the inlayed turkey calls
[03:05:34] <les> how do you snade something?
[03:05:45] <Jymmm> snade?
[03:05:55] <Jymmm> sanding
[03:05:57] <Jymmm> heh
[03:05:59] <les> haha
[03:06:04] <Jymmm> sandingPu that is
[03:06:33] <Jymmm> Yes, that is sanding POO (PU)
[03:06:40] <les> it can be a problem if it dries to long...
[03:06:48] <Jymmm> and two coats of PU is POO POO
[03:06:48] <Jacky^> guys, too late for me 03:31
[03:06:56] <Jymmm> g'night Jacky^
[03:06:57] <Jacky^> night, weel see tomorrow
[03:07:01] <Jacky^> night
[03:07:01] <les> PU needs to be recoated soon or it may halo when sanding
[03:07:21] <Jymmm> halo?
[03:07:28] <les> then...the king of finishes....
[03:07:33] <les> is...
[03:07:42] <les> the french polish.
[03:07:52] <les> which is dewaxed shellac
[03:07:55] <Jymmm> when the first coat is tacky, I put onthe 2nd coat
[03:08:01] <Jymmm> ah
[03:08:36] <Jymmm> Well, I doubt I'll make anything that'll last 200 years, so...
[03:09:18] <les> http://www.milburnguitars.com/fpbannerframes.html
[03:09:30] <les> french polish will last 200 years!
[03:10:17] <Jymmm> Do you know WHY I use spray can paint and finishes???? Becuase I have ZERO room for anything else... storage or even a place to dry overnight.
[03:10:45] <Jymmm> It's a piece fof plywood sitting on top a bag of bark.
[03:11:30] <les> oh I use spray cans too sometimes...and I have about 20 spray guns!!
[03:11:59] <Jymmm> ok, so if I rub linseed oil on this stuff, how many coats for one, and can I PU it afterwards?
[03:12:28] <les> old rule of linseed oil:
[03:12:44] <les> once a day for a week...
[03:12:54] <les> once a month for a year...
[03:13:01] <les> once a year forever
[03:13:23] <les> no don't put PU over it
[03:13:43] <les> but PU over watco danish oil is ok and will look the same
[03:14:10] <les> get thee some watco danish il
[03:14:25] <les> looks just like linseed
[03:14:32] <les> dries quicker
[03:14:41] <Jymmm> never heard of it, will look next time I'm at the lumber store
[03:14:43] <les> linseed really never dries
[03:15:12] <Jymmm> I had to stop handlning the stuff I got today as I can see it absorbing the oils from my fingers.
[03:15:25] <les> that case work on my site...the mahogany one...thin PU over watco.
[03:15:39] <les> you be the judge
[03:16:44] <les> the jewelry box below is french polish
[03:16:48] <Jymmm> I like the finish on the white oak drawer
[03:16:57] <les> and the turkey call is nitro laquer
[03:17:07] <Jymmm> but not on the jewlery box
[03:17:20] <les> the finish on the drawer= nothing!
[03:17:42] <Jymmm> drawer front I mean
[03:18:07] <Jymmm> I like semi gloss that brings out the color/grain of the wood in general
[03:18:08] <les> oh...PU over watco
[03:18:18] <Jymmm> I don't care for stains too mucj.
[03:18:35] <Jymmm> I enjoy the natural colors of wood
[03:18:56] <les> only the turkey call is dyed (not stained)
[03:19:15] <les> all other pictures are natural finish...zero stain
[03:19:21] <Jymmm> I was jsut saying about stains in general
[03:19:47] <Jymmm> unless you're staining some plywood for cabinets, then thats another story all together =)
[03:19:47] <les> the nitro on the call is dyed green
[03:19:56] <les> but no stain on the wood
[03:20:09] <Jymmm> nitro?
[03:20:21] <Jymmm> nitroglycerine
[03:20:41] <les> nitrocellulose
[03:20:46] <les> close
[03:22:25] <les> it is quite flammable
[03:24:54] <les> the dyed nitro on the calls we tried in:
[03:25:03] <les> "camo green"
[03:25:12] <les> candy apple red
[03:25:26] <les> cobalt blue
[03:25:38] <les> driftwood gray
[03:25:54] <les> even purple!
[03:26:24] <les> the "camo green flamed maple" is the winner. people like that best.
[03:26:35] <Jymmm> ah ok
[03:27:12] <Jymmm> well, I'll stick with what comes out of a spray can for now =)
[03:27:35] <les> you can have whatever you want put in one...
[03:27:36] <Jymmm> I did find that rustolium offers their spray paints in quarts too.
[03:28:06] <Jymmm> I wanted to 'roll' on some paint on relief carvings
[03:28:18] <Jymmm> but have it dry rather quickly
[03:29:36] <Jymmm> I got some 1/4" hardwood dowels today 48" long... seems better than using fluted ones.
[03:29:59] <les> you know that oval sign with my logo?
[03:30:04] <Jymmm> yeah
[03:30:07] <les> semi gloss PU.
[03:30:18] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[03:30:49] <Jymmm> now I need to design up what holes/grid I'll drill in the table tonight.
[03:31:26] <Jymmm> 2" seems too big, and 1" seems too small.
[03:31:49] <les> I have a 6 inch grid
[03:31:59] <les> bigger table though
[03:32:22] <Jymmm> yeah, and I've seem to be focusing on smaller stuff
[03:32:49] <les> each hole in mine has a steel threaded insert in it
[03:33:11] <Jymmm> 3/4" MDF tabletop... no inserts. thinking about going 1/2" deep holes
[03:33:56] <les> how will you hold the work down?
[03:34:14] <Jymmm> gravity
[03:34:26] <Jymmm> or sideways you mean?
[03:34:33] <les> yeah
[03:34:59] <Jymmm> Ah, that pyramid I made wasn't suppose to turn out that way... it was an idea for a clamp...
[03:35:09] <Jymmm> take a 2" piece of material
[03:35:23] <Jymmm> staircase two side of it, like the pyramid
[03:35:40] <Jymmm> then cut a 15 degrre angled slot it it
[03:36:03] <Jymmm> one dowel goes thru the slut and slides sideways
[03:36:11] <Jymmm> againest the workpiece
[03:36:55] <les> "one dowel goes through the slut and slides sideways"
[03:37:08] <les> what the hell are you doing??!!
[03:37:15] <les> hahaha
[03:37:45] <les> what size dowel is that?
[03:39:03] <Jymmm> 1/4"
[03:39:41] <les> I have had stuff come loose and slide around
[03:39:51] <les> it is exciting
[03:40:02] <Jymmm> +---------------------+
[03:40:02] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:02] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:02] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:02] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:03] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:05] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:07] <Jymmm> | --- |
[03:40:09] <Jymmm> | / / |
[03:40:11] <Jymmm> | / / |
[03:40:13] <Jymmm> | / / <-- 15 deg |
[03:40:14] <Jymmm> | / / 1.5" long |
[03:40:17] <Jymmm> | / / |
[03:40:19] <Jymmm> | --- |
[03:40:21] <Jymmm> | |
[03:40:23] <Jymmm> +---------------------+
[03:40:39] <les> oh so it jams tight
[03:40:48] <Jymmm> yeah
[03:41:01] <Jymmm> (poor ascii art )
[03:41:13] <les> just don't use upcut bits!
[03:41:25] <Jymmm> I can use them for irregular shaped pieces too.
[03:41:33] <les> I see.
[03:41:52] <Jymmm> well, I might thread every other hole 1/4-20
[03:42:13] <les> I made all the inserts on the lathe
[03:42:14] <Jymmm> in case I do need to clamp downward too
[03:42:38] <Jymmm> * Jymmm looks around for the lathe... what lathe? lol
[03:43:14] <les> I have lots of vacuum holes too
[03:43:14] <Jymmm> If you would have said it's ok to use a jacobs chuck in a router yesterday, I would of had a job for your lathe.
[03:43:56] <les> jacobs chuck+ router=death
[03:44:12] <Jymmm> yeah, that's why I asked the master!
[03:44:16] <les> heh
[03:44:55] <Jymmm> I picked up another 24" 24" MDF today... I WILL make that harley sign!
[03:45:12] <Jymmm> and make sure the power cord for the computer is fully seated this time
[03:45:22] <les> I finally ordered that signfoam
[03:45:34] <Jymmm> I thought you ordered it last week
[03:45:41] <Jymmm> or two weeks ago even.
[03:45:49] <les> 1.5" x 4'x8'
[03:45:55] <les> naw I put it off
[03:45:59] <Jymmm> lol
[03:46:04] <Jymmm> how much $ ?
[03:46:04] <les> $250...bleh
[03:46:09] <Jymmm> for one sheet?
[03:46:13] <les> yes
[03:46:27] <Jymmm> Um you do know MDF is MUCH cheaper =)
[03:47:21] <les> signfoam sheet will make $1200 worth of signs...and will last 10 years even out in desert hot sun
[03:47:51] <Jymmm> so, you can lice on $1200/decade?
[03:47:53] <Jymmm> live
[03:47:57] <Jymmm> =)
[03:48:00] <Jymmm> </smartass>
[03:48:26] <Jymmm> you use spiral downcut bits right?
[03:49:36] <les> actually, I am sorry I took these sign orders right now. It caused me to have to farm out $100/hr engineering work. I can lice better on engineering rhan signs these days
[03:50:04] <Jymmm> I hear ya =)
[03:50:17] <les> on foam...it does not matter much. It cuts like air.
[03:50:39] <Jymmm> les : Check out the pricing on their CMT bits...
http://routerbitworld.com/index.php/cPath/1686_1687_1688_1693
[03:50:49] <les> looking
[03:51:03] <Jymmm> I just paid $17 for the 1/4" CMT downcut
[03:51:22] <Jymmm> and shipping is only $1
[03:51:47] <les> looks fine...really good price
[03:51:54] <Jymmm> That's where I ordered the collet adapter from already.
[03:52:04] <les> 8 bucks?
[03:52:12] <Jymmm> yeah
[03:52:21] <les> ok price
[03:52:32] <Jymmm> it's the cheapest I've found
[03:52:49] <Jymmm> the one I ordered has a flute on it
[03:53:00] <Jymmm> flute?! no
[03:53:20] <les> on the cutters...griz is a little cheaper...but CMT is better...stays sharp longer
[03:53:24] <Jymmm> um um um what am I thinking... a lil sideways nub
[03:53:40] <les> so CMT ends up costing less really
[03:54:07] <les> a nub on a collet sleeve?
[03:54:32] <Jymmm> yeah (cant think of the name) prevents from going in all the way
[03:54:39] <Jymmm> flare
[03:54:41] <Jymmm> thats it
[03:54:48] <les> oh
[03:55:26] <Jymmm> I need to clean up my mahcien tonight and grease that puppy
[03:55:43] <Jymmm> the ballscrews are getting dry
[03:56:09] <les> yeah kep em well lubed
[03:56:12] <les> keep
[03:56:17] <Jymmm> mdf dust really soaks up the grease
[03:56:44] <Jymmm> is MDF "non toxic" ?
[03:56:56] <icee> jymmm: no
[03:57:04] <icee> MDF dust is quite bad for you.
[03:57:22] <les> I don't have to grease a puppy, but I have to put flea killer on congo.
[03:57:24] <Jymmm> not the dust, as much as consumption by pets/babys
[03:57:40] <Jymmm> lol
[03:57:51] <icee> jymmm: MDF isn't good to snack on.
[03:58:15] <icee> formaldehyde is in it, etc.
[03:58:15] <Jymmm> bummer, I'll have to find some other wide material then.
[03:58:19] <les> MDF dust has amine/phenolic resins
[03:58:30] <Jymmm> amine?
[03:58:44] <les> melamine specifically
[03:58:50] <Jymmm> ah
[03:59:02] <Jymmm> formaldehyde too?
[03:59:05] <icee> amines are bad, but not as bad as the urea formaldehyde
[03:59:07] <les> yes
[03:59:33] <icee> jymmm: if you're seriously machining MDF and kicking up a lot of dust, you should definitely wear a respirator
[03:59:54] <les> some MDF does have urea formaldehyde too
[03:59:56] <Jymmm> icee it's in an enclosed envirpnment
[04:00:15] <icee> MDF produces some particles that are finer than come from other wood machining operations, and that is bad enough alone to cause lung problems.. and then u.f., the amines, etc aren't so good
[04:00:18] <Jymmm> but there is some leakage
[04:00:23] <icee> jymmm: that's good. I'd be very very careful
[04:00:34] <icee> It's not good to find out one day that your lungs don't work well anymore
[04:00:57] <les> mine are about shot icee
[04:01:01] <Jymmm> lol
[04:01:44] <Jymmm> I'll make a better enclosuer in the future to contain it better and exhaust it once the job is finished
[04:01:59] <Jymmm> exhaust == vaccuum =)
[04:02:13] <les> MDF sure makes the dust
[04:02:20] <les> HDPU too
[04:02:43] <icee> the toxicity, dust, weight, etc of MDF is unfortunate. It's such a nice material for a lot of things though.
[04:02:49] <Jymmm> sign foam is HDPU ?
[04:02:56] <les> yes
[04:03:19] <Jymmm> ok cool. High Density PolyUrithane?
[04:03:30] <Jymmm> (sp)
[04:03:36] <les> Blocked polyisocyanates. wonderful stuff.
[04:03:52] <Jymmm> cyanate ~= crazy glue
[04:04:40] <les> no crazy glue is mehyl methacrylate and stuff
[04:04:55] <Jymmm> oh, I gots confusidideded
[04:04:59] <les> heh
[04:05:50] <les> there are some cyanide like things in crazy glue..
[04:06:02] <Jymmm> and apple seeds
[04:06:07] <les> the "stuff" I mentioned
[04:06:15] <Jymmm> ah
[04:06:26] <Jymmm> signfoam toxic too I suspect?
[04:06:30] <les> cyanurates
[04:06:40] <les> yeah signfoam is
[04:07:01] <Jymmm> Did you know crossign the street causes cancer?
[04:07:07] <les> isocyanate precursers killed all those in bhoppal
[04:07:21] <les> (sp)
[04:07:58] <les> crossing the street?
[04:08:25] <Jymmm> yep. I mena everything causes cancer, might as 2ell be crossing the street too
[04:08:35] <les> heh
[04:09:19] <Jymmm> les what was the url of that painting robot
[04:09:32] <K`zan> LIFE is not ONLY a sexually commicated disease, but it is FATAL. Reason #11232343245 that the enviroloons tell you WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!
[04:09:41] <K`zan> :-)
[04:09:57] <les> Well I saw on cnn that a vaccine was developed that is totally effective against cervical cancer
[04:10:11] <les> too bad I am not a ...um vagina.
[04:10:19] <icee> yup. because pretty much all cervical cancer is caused by the genital warts viruses
[04:10:24] <Jymmm> les you are what you eat
[04:10:29] <les> haw
[04:10:32] <K`zan> That isn't what I have heard ;-)
[04:10:53] <les> ulp
[04:10:58] <K`zan> LOL
[04:11:23] <Jymmm> brb coffee
[04:18:06] <Jymmm> back
[04:18:35] <K`zan> WB
[04:18:40] <Jymmm> ty
[04:19:11] <K`zan> Hummm, 1 step = 1/4000th inch (assuming 1/4-20 allthread) WOW.
[04:19:39] <les> that should work.
[04:19:53] <K`zan> bloody fine resolution :-)
[04:20:01] <Jymmm> say what?!
[04:20:24] <les> On my machine an encoder tick= .0001
[04:20:32] <les> old rule is
[04:20:38] <K`zan> 200 steps / rev and 20tpi
[04:20:50] <les> accuracy= 10x resolution at best
[04:21:34] <K`zan> accuracy is 1/40000th inch?
[04:21:34] <les> with servos not steppers
[04:22:03] <les> not with stepper
[04:22:12] <K`zan> Ah
[04:22:50] <K`zan> would be a lot more convenient at 10 tpi though - numbers easier to work with.
[04:23:01] <K`zan> uh wait
[04:23:11] <les> actually today me, mr "use servos" had to start designing a stepper system for some industrial automation
[04:23:43] <K`zan> Not sure what TPI value would be best / easiest to work with.
[04:23:59] <Jymmm> K`zan what type of machine?
[04:24:09] <K`zan> Homebrewing :-)
[04:24:12] <les> I don't know...'ll prob use 298/ double stack bipolar
[04:24:19] <Jymmm> K`zan what TYPE
[04:24:36] <Jymmm> K`zan gantry router? mill? lathe?
[04:24:37] <K`zan> Prolly a simple router thingie first.
[04:24:42] <les> It is the production tester for the club car throttle position sensor
[04:24:51] <les> a golf cart part.
[04:26:07] <les> It is the thing I was considering using the labjack ue9 on
[04:26:51] <les> the software/firmware does not have the functions I need
[04:27:12] <les> called 'em up.
[04:27:38] <les> They said no problem we will write em.
[04:27:59] <les> I said ok. So I farmed it out to them.
[04:28:25] <les> I hate doing that. but I am overloaded. I have a backlog
[04:31:52] <les> So they write code. I sit at a word screen and write spin.
[04:32:00] <Jymmm> lol
[04:34:18] <Jymmm> les can I stpedown an 1/8" downcut bit into MDF by 1/4" ?
[04:34:36] <Jymmm> I know you said only go to the diameter, but...
[04:35:10] <les> you can try it.
[04:35:20] <les> have the goggles on!
[04:35:28] <les> might work
[04:35:31] <Jymmm> lol
[04:35:37] <les> no rule is haed and fast
[04:35:46] <les> hard
[04:36:07] <les> BTW....
[04:36:10] <Jymmm> well, this sign will take 3 hours otherwise is why I ask
[04:36:29] <les> get one of those cheap little kitchen fire extengiushers
[04:37:28] <les> popping a 1/8 bit isn't going to be the end of the world.
[04:37:49] <Jymmm> it is when you dont have any spares available
[04:38:01] <les> yeah
[04:38:15] <Jymmm> les
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/81231/10001/157/155/8
[04:39:10] <les> yeah some little xomething like that
[04:39:25] <les> from walmart or whatever
[04:39:59] <Jymmm> this one isn't dry chemical, so it's not corrosive
[04:41:19] <les> burying a running router bit in a cnc table is the ultimate rubbing two sticks together
[04:41:35] <Jymmm> lol, no shit huh
[04:42:26] <les> normally it would just smoke and char...but then there are all those chips and dust all over
[04:43:07] <Jymmm> does that mean I shouldn't have placed my router on top of 48" x 48" x 1" slab of magnesium?
[04:43:16] <les> haha
[04:43:29] <Jymmm> thats what my vibration table was made of.
[04:43:38] <Jymmm> 110 lbs table top
[04:43:43] <Jymmm> seriously
[04:43:44] <les> neat
[04:43:53] <Jymmm> 10 g log
[04:44:07] <les> I have used tham
[04:44:12] <les> them
[04:44:28] <les> tham
[04:44:29] <les> arg
[04:44:46] <Jymmm> everybody hated me... I'd be shaking that end of the whole bldg
[04:44:57] <K`zan> This is what spreadsheets were made for !
[04:44:59] <Jymmm> and talk about LOUD
[04:45:51] <les> yuga still is excited about servo motor speakers
[04:46:04] <Jymmm> les oyu would have LOVED the amps.... all wax string... you could trace each wire in the bundle from start to finish. ZERO twisitng
[04:46:17] <Jymmm> It was a work of art
[04:46:32] <Jymmm> no clamps at all on the water cooling for the IC's
[04:47:10] <les> I told him today I would derive the equations to relate servo motor parameters to Thiele small
[04:47:14] <les> so
[04:47:43] <les> polar moment of inertia to Thiele small Mms network parameter
[04:48:40] <les> and torque constant to Thiele Small B cross L product
[04:49:05] <les> then he can plug in real world servo moter specs
[04:49:11] <les> and see what happens.
[04:50:20] <les> I have not done the math yet
[04:50:41] <les> and I don't know what the results will be
[04:50:46] <les> we'll see
[04:59:39] <Jymmm> is that for chris' drivers?
[05:00:41] <les> no it is for very large loudspeakers
[05:00:49] <les> driven bt motors!
[05:00:54] <les> by
[05:00:59] <K`zan> 10TPI is what I really want.
[05:01:42] <les> same math, a cnc machine and a speaker...it's the same.
[05:01:57] <les> 10 ypi? why?
[05:02:01] <les> tpi
[05:02:23] <LawrenceG> hey les... broke down and ordered 3 of those 300w ac servocs (no brakes).... they are going fast only 65 left!
[05:02:35] <les> wow
[05:03:09] <les> well like I said...
[05:03:14] <K`zan> les: Dunno, still trying to figure out what leadscrew TPI would work out best. Perhaps I should go see what various machines have in them,.
[05:04:05] <les> cheap motor+ expensive driver is better than expensive motor+ expensive driver...right?
[05:04:07] <K`zan> My brain is too fried today to deal with this more, what in hell is on TV.
[05:04:16] <les> nuthin
[05:04:21] <LawrenceG> there is a bldc motor group I follow.... will have to check and see if anyone has played with 3 phase servo drive
[05:04:37] <K`zan> Yeah, I know that, but sensless mind rot wil do ATM :)
[05:04:37] <les> 5 TPI is typical for metalworking
[05:04:50] <K`zan> *5* ?
[05:04:56] <LawrenceG> I am thinking mesa card to do 3 phase pwm
[05:05:07] <K`zan> Seems very couse for some reason... /me works math
[05:05:44] <K`zan> coarse
[05:05:59] <les> have to balance things to match motor and load mechanical impedance
[05:06:10] <les> %tpi is typical
[05:06:38] <les> for high speed routers as little as 2 tpi is used
[05:07:02] <les> 5 not%
[05:07:17] <K`zan> 200 steps is just NOT jelling in my head tonight - I think I need a good nights sleep at this point...
[05:07:29] <les> yeah me too
[05:09:05] <LawrenceG> only 58 left ...
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005101222300732&item=10-2208
[05:09:21] <les> but 200 steps per rev....1000 steps per inch...is 10 times better than the lead accuracty of hardware store threaded rod
[05:09:36] <les> what lawrence? this time of day?
[05:09:38] <les> wow
[05:09:46] <Jymmm> les should we tell LawrenceG qbout the 1000W ones for $34 ?
[05:09:58] <LawrenceG> too big
[05:10:23] <Jymmm> those are going quick too... fro 365 now to 272
[05:10:26] <les> Lawrence some others are thinking as we were earlier huh
[05:10:47] <LawrenceG> i guess.... hope I dont break one!
[05:11:04] <les> amazing.
[05:11:05] <Jymmm> LawrenceG
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005101222300732&item=10-2210&catname=
[05:11:54] <LawrenceG> those big ones would be good for a mid sized spindle drive
[05:12:39] <LawrenceG> or a bridgeport, or big woofers!
[05:12:51] <les> they could run a 4x8 ft router or big mill easily
[05:13:07] <LawrenceG> shal we say snappy!
[05:13:17] <les> yeah
[05:13:26] <les> like .5 g snappy
[05:15:16] <LawrenceG> now where is jmk?
[05:15:44] <les> sleeping soundly in ohio no doubt
[05:16:45] <les> a lot of people think they are gonna get a big break on the prob $1000 drivers....
[05:17:01] <les> er ac srvoamps
[05:19:30] <Jymmm> les nah... 3" x 3" PCB machine =)
[05:19:54] <les> heh
[05:20:56] <les> well Lawrence made a good observation...without a servoamp the motors are just so much scrap iron...
[05:20:57] <Jymmm> Now I have to figure out a way to make "gunmetal" paint
[05:21:08] <les> every motor has to have a servo amp
[05:21:12] <les> so
[05:21:19] <les> where are they?
[05:36:21] <Jymmm> Easter Bunny is hinding them.
[05:36:27] <Jymmm> hiding
[05:37:01] <les> heh bed time for me
[05:37:10] <Jymmm> G'Night les
[05:37:14] <les> night
[12:20:46] <Jacky^> morning
[13:16:46] <cncuser> hi
[13:29:28] <cncuser> cradek: do you have a overview on the dependencies of axis ?
[13:45:01] <cradek> http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/installing
[13:45:14] <cradek> these instructions may be partly out of date, but the dependencies have not changed.
[13:46:19] <cradek> if you're using a recent bdi, you already have everything needed.
[14:05:59] <cncuser> cradek: thanks
[14:09:47] <cncuser> cradek: btw. i allmost finished a rambased livecd. python @ axis dont fit into it right now, so i try to stripdown where possible
[14:10:04] <cncuser> s/@/and/
[14:12:04] <cncuser> checking dependencies with lsof and strace doesnt help me much here :)
[14:13:01] <cncuser> cncuser is now known as cncuserAFK
[14:55:19] <cradek> cncuserAFK: that sounds like a great project
[14:58:53] <jepler> yeah, I'd like to see a new "live"-type emc disc too
[15:08:31] <cradek> cncuserAFK: are you using a 2.4 kernel so it can run all versions of emc?
[15:28:32] <cncuserAFK> rehi
[15:28:36] <cncuserAFK> cncuserAFK is now known as cncuser
[15:29:29] <cncuser> cradek, jepler: yes, i like working on it too.
[15:29:44] <cncuser> cradek: yes i use 2.4 kernel
[15:30:13] <cradek> cncuser: that's great
[15:30:19] <cncuser> cradek: which makes some problems with usb devices/controllers as i found. but is small fast, and well tested
[15:30:45] <cradek> cncuser: I use 2.4.31 successfully even with USB stuff and SATA drives
[15:30:53] <cncuser> im uploading an iso tonight. about 60MB file
[15:30:58] <cncuser> you can try :)
[15:31:08] <cradek> 600?
[15:31:14] <cncuser> no 60MB
[15:31:16] <cncuser> :)
[15:31:19] <cradek> really
[15:31:25] <cradek> I thought you said you were out of room
[15:31:25] <cncuser> no axis by now, just rtai+emc
[15:31:43] <cradek> and a nice small window manager?
[15:31:50] <cncuser> yes i am, it copies itself into ramdisk and needs about 256 MB to run totally from ram
[15:31:53] <cncuser> jwm
[15:32:08] <cradek> oh, I see
[15:32:10] <cncuser> you can do an install on hd and need 128mb
[15:32:47] <cncuser> or you can put you /root (home) on a usb stick. and run partly from ram and usb-stick
[15:33:20] <cncuser> i "raped" puppy linux 1.0.4
[15:33:27] <jepler> jwm looks OK. Is it easy to do WM actions with the keyboard (change focus, close, maximize, iconify, etc)?
[15:33:40] <cncuser> yes, and easy to configure too
[15:33:51] <jepler> nice
[15:34:09] <jepler> I really like icewm, and its biggest feature for me is all the keyboard shortcuts (which by now I know by heart)
[15:34:59] <cncuser> i used icewm longtime
[15:35:47] <cncuser> then fluxbox, then xcfe, if id have more space id use xfce
[15:36:32] <cncuser> ok, i also used enlightenment, but just for the optic candy..
[15:37:15] <jepler> are you the fellow who reported the axis bug with fluxbox (selecting jog step size)? we fixed that at some point...
[15:37:28] <cncuser> no, sorry, not me
[15:38:03] <cncuser> coul you say how much space axis may need (including all python deps) ?
[15:39:53] <jepler> do you have tcl/tk yet?
[15:40:06] <cncuser> yes, i have
[15:40:30] <cncuser> i need mesa too, but thats a small thingy i assume
[15:46:46] <jepler> well, a full python rpm is 16 megs (rh9/python2.2) to 21 megs (fc4/python2.4/x86_64) but
[15:46:51] <jepler> but not all of those files are used by axis
[15:47:52] <cncuser> should emc2 close orderly if i send it a HUP ?
[15:48:15] <cradek> which part of it?
[15:48:18] <cncuser> jepler: yes, thats much too big :)
[15:48:31] <cradek> you should exit/kill the gui
[15:48:37] <cncuser> jepler: i need to turn off all unneccessary features
[15:48:40] <cradek> then the script will probably clean up
[15:48:43] <jepler> it also requires blt which is a 100k shared lib and 200k of script files
[15:49:05] <cncuser> cradek: well, wehen i run emc.run from with a shell it cleses when i close the gui
[15:49:24] <cncuser> but when i launch it from rox-filer, it doesnt
[15:49:50] <cradek> * cradek shrugs cluelessly
[15:49:51] <cncuser> it would all look great now, if i didnt have the problems with not unloading rtai modules
[15:50:45] <jepler> hm, pyopengl seems to (needlessly) pull in numpy
[15:50:55] <cncuser> yes, im too clueless, raped the emc.run and reused the Cleanup function. right now im killing the modules redundant (many times)
[15:51:07] <cncuser> numpy, never heard :)
[15:51:52] <cncuser> hmm, the libs can be upx compressed i think
[15:53:02] <cncuser> well, im on with cooking today
[15:53:24] <cncuser> if youd linke too i mail you when im finished and where to download the iso
[15:55:07] <jepler> I'd like to see this thing
[15:55:10] <jepler> jepler@unpy.net
[15:55:35] <cradek> me too (I'll see jepler's copy)
[15:55:37] <cncuser> thanks i know your email from the axis homepage
[15:56:22] <cncuser> now too some beef, potatos and zuchini :)
[15:56:31] <cncuser> bye
[16:10:01] <jepler> two out of three of those things sound good
[16:39:44] <les> morning all
[16:40:09] <les> bleh have to design a quick stepper system this morning
[16:40:13] <les> nama 17
[16:40:23] <les> highest possible torque
[16:40:29] <les> neama 17
[16:40:44] <les> wish I could type...
[16:41:08] <les> ok...58 in oz....bipolar
[16:41:20] <les> on to the allegro web site
[16:41:50] <les> full step...bipolar...current drive
[16:44:10] <anonimasu> hm
[16:44:13] <anonimasu> hi
[16:50:49] <les> hi
[16:51:03] <les> owwww all of them are surface mount
[17:06:45] <anonimasu> what's up?
[17:11:59] <les> i'll just use the old 297/298 I guess
[17:12:23] <cradek> venerable, not old
[17:12:32] <les> oh!
[17:12:55] <les> every new allegro bipolar drive is surface mount
[17:13:07] <les> pain for the technician
[17:13:16] <cradek> even the driver transistor part?
[17:13:29] <les> I'll show you
[17:13:49] <cradek> I like SMD but it's silly for high-current stuff.
[17:13:55] <les> http://www.allegromicro.com/sf/3979/
[17:14:09] <les> nice, but it's a one time deal.
[17:14:19] <les> don't want to do a board
[17:15:00] <cradek> wow, that's cool
[17:15:28] <cradek> I'd be worried about how to heatsink it though
[17:15:40] <cradek> the older packages work better for that I think
[17:15:42] <les> yes very nice...but I want something the tech up there can whip out on a perfboard
[17:15:59] <cradek> yuck
[17:16:07] <les> I need a couple amps bipolar full step
[17:16:15] <cradek> the boardhouses are cheap
[17:16:30] <les> guess 297/298 is the winner!
[17:16:56] <cradek> I used to perfboard but I've sworn off of it now; it sucks.
[17:17:12] <les> well yeah....
[17:17:13] <les> but
[17:17:20] <les> it's quick
[17:17:34] <cradek> the end result is at best janky and at worst unreliable
[17:17:43] <les> and can be checked on a proto board
[17:18:14] <cradek> making the second one is just as much work as the first one
[17:18:24] <cradek> will he need 3?
[17:18:27] <les> well I am talking about a good fr4 tinned copper board
[17:18:35] <les> we only need one...
[17:18:37] <cradek> ah
[17:18:41] <cradek> not so bad then
[17:18:48] <les> and the tech is about $50/hr....
[17:19:01] <les> I don't want him tooling up a pcb
[17:19:23] <les> not for one part
[17:19:58] <cradek> this allegro is only 35v
[17:20:21] <les> but...I must admit...those new allegro simplestepper chips are very nice
[17:20:38] <les> I am only running a NEMA 17
[17:20:47] <cradek> ah
[17:21:00] <les> it's just for a piece of custom test gear
[17:21:34] <les> it turns golf cart throttle position pots...
[17:21:41] <les> checks linearity...
[17:21:50] <les> reads the bar code...
[17:21:58] <les> logs the stuff...
[17:22:03] <les> and does some spc
[17:22:04] <cradek> you could use unipolar and four transistors for that
[17:22:22] <cradek> TSSOP pins are only 0.22mm wide - I wonder how they get 2.5A through that
[17:22:34] <cradek> I don't see how you can drive the motor directly with a TSSOP package
[17:22:53] <les> I was using unipolar befor...then they upped the return spring torque on the device
[17:23:06] <les> I wanyt to use the same motor frame
[17:23:13] <les> so I need to go bipolar
[17:23:35] <les> oh..the allegro device has a heat sink pad area
[17:23:51] <cradek> did you have HV and ballast resistors?
[17:24:05] <les> yup
[17:24:17] <les> It just wasn't enough
[17:24:24] <les> I am slipping steps
[17:24:33] <les> and I am maxed out
[17:24:42] <les> but
[17:24:48] <cradek> I wonder how much more you can get out of it
[17:25:18] <les> bipolar... I can get 58 in oz out of a double stack NEMA 17
[17:26:04] <les> currently running 22 in oz
[17:26:15] <les> it was fine until they changed the spring
[17:59:58] <les> ok. done. parts ordered.
[18:00:02] <les> blah
[18:08:43] <Jymmm> yo ho ho and a bottle of rum
[18:09:02] <les> new software eh
[18:11:25] <Jymmm> les pay attention!
[18:11:40] <les> pm ain't working
[18:11:59] <Jymmm> les you're not registered?
[18:12:06] <Jymmm> sigh, hold on
[18:12:16] <les> yeah I am
[18:12:19] <Jacky^> hello :)
[18:12:25] <les> pm is only going oneway
[18:12:27] <Jymmm> les then you need to login
[18:13:01] <les> it's working with other people...
[18:13:29] <Jymmm> les /chanserv identify <password>
[18:13:39] <Jymmm> les /nickserv identify <password>
[18:13:46] <Jymmm> the 2nd
[18:15:51] <tziOm> hello guysa
[18:16:28] <tziOm> anyone into emc2 development? is it usable with the xenomai rtai branch?
[18:17:28] <Jymmm> les did you identify yet?
[18:22:40] <tziOm> channel dead?
[18:25:40] <les> hi tzi
[18:27:18] <les> not doing emc2...did you get your bearing stuff straight?
[18:28:26] <tziOm> les - dunno.. the bearing I chose and that I have incorperated in the design is hard to get hold of apparantly.. even tho it is in the brochures I have.. few ppl are using them they say.
[18:31:44] <tziOm> les - dunno.. the bearing I chose and that I have incorperated in the design is hard to get hold of apparantly.. even tho it is in the brochures I have.. few ppl are using them they say.
[18:32:03] <les> where are you?
[18:32:08] <tziOm> norway
[18:32:19] <les> oh
[18:32:26] <les> what shaft size?
[18:32:38] <tziOm> what I want is a 10x26x8mm bearing (10 => shaft)
[18:32:45] <tziOm> its called ISO1010
[18:32:52] <les> hang on
[18:33:20] <tziOm> angular contact
[18:34:24] <les> standard 7000 bearing
[18:35:26] <tziOm> yep
[18:35:45] <tziOm> But I have called 20 atleast different resellers..
[18:36:04] <tziOm> they dodnt have'em
[18:36:28] <les> I only see them as abec 7 (forgot which iso class that is)...$623 per pair
[18:36:41] <les> you do not need that accuracy class of course
[18:36:49] <tziOm> nope
[18:37:00] <tziOm> want something for about 10bux guess.
[18:37:17] <les> not in this country!
[18:37:25] <tziOm> sicko prices for the pair-matched hi-speed ones!
[18:37:27] <les> not new anyway
[18:37:45] <tziOm> they cost like 20$ here in norway.. and we are hell-expensivew
[18:38:01] <tziOm> fuel costs 2$ pr liter here.
[18:38:07] <les> I have 7020 abec 1....$58.15
[18:38:10] <tziOm> gasoline, 95
[18:39:08] <les> my catalog only goes down to 7020...tha'ts 10x30x9
[18:39:36] <tziOm> problem is that want 15mm shaft-edge
[18:39:53] <tziOm> the 10x26x8 says its ok with 12mm
[18:40:26] <les> 7000 (1010) does seem to be hard to find
[18:40:29] <tziOm> and when taking off the threads on my 16x4 trapezoid.. I have like 11.8 maby.. on a good day
[18:40:54] <tziOm> les - do you have good solitions for this?
[18:41:14] <les> well not sure I am understanding...but
[18:41:17] <tziOm> possible to add a spacer thing maby? can you crimp this on the shaft?
[18:42:20] <tziOm> les - When taking the threads off the 16x4 (mm => diam x inc) trapezoidal screw .. I have less than 12mm left of the shaft to go against the bearing
[18:42:21] <les> the standard thermally stable design is duplex AC db (back to back) on one end and floating deep groove on the other
[18:42:43] <les> oh ok I understand
[18:43:45] <les> I guess your ballscrew is a little too short for the size you want?
[18:44:37] <tziOm> Not short.. the diameter of the shaft after I take the threads off the end..
[18:44:48] <les> oh ok
[18:45:03] <tziOm> ..to go against the edge of the bearing.
[18:45:14] <les> what is the biggest diameter that you can do?
[18:45:39] <les> just under 12?
[18:45:48] <tziOm> the 10x30x9 7020 bearing says (from catalog) that it needs 15mm shaft-edge .. on my 16mm I can get 12 on a good day
[18:45:58] <tziOm> just under 12, yeps
[18:45:58] <les> ok
[18:46:02] <les> I see
[18:46:21] <tziOm> les - got any good solutions for that?
[18:47:06] <les> well you are stuck with iso 101 it looks like
[18:47:12] <les> 1010
[18:47:16] <les> 7000
[18:49:35] <tziOm> les - fuck.. playing with rtai .. crashed my machine
[18:49:41] <les> baheh
[18:49:51] <tziOm> les - did you say anything last couple minutes?
[18:50:03] <les> tzi you could make a short spacer
[18:50:22] <les> between bearing and shaft edge
[18:50:25] <les> you know?
[18:50:27] <tziOm> les - I could .. possible to crimp this on in any way..?
[18:50:38] <tziOm> les - do you know the "correct" way of doing this?
[18:50:38] <les> press fit yes
[18:50:52] <tziOm> les - only thing I am worried about is the price..
[18:50:52] <les> yes
[18:51:06] <tziOm> I am on a tight budget.. but want this done professional..
[18:51:23] <tziOm> therefor some company will make all my parts..
[18:51:44] <tziOm> ..but this will be extra time for them ofcorse, and extra money for me.
[18:51:47] <les> yes I am seeing high prices...I too was able to buy $20 AC bearings in the past...but they have gone up a lot suddenly
[18:52:10] <les> ac bearings are rare to find surplus too
[18:52:41] <les> for yor spacer....
[18:52:43] <tziOm> les - think of skateboard bearings i.e .. not AC... but really good bearings.. and what are they? $2?
[18:52:58] <les> yes
[18:53:09] <tziOm> the bearing mafia!
[18:53:17] <tziOm> les - yes.. my spacers..
[18:53:30] <les> you can used them as AC in pairs....contact angle ends up being about 5 degrees
[18:53:38] <les> ok spacer....
[18:54:14] <les> center hole in spacer needs to be about .005 smaller than shaft diameter
[18:54:29] <les> for a medium press fit
[18:54:30] <tziOm> Ill be back in 2 minutes, tell me all about it in the meantime (you talking inches?)
[18:54:37] <les> no mm
[19:00:13] <tziOm> les - can I dcc send you a image? have some design questions.. easier to explain if You can look @ image same time..
[19:00:21] <les> sure
[19:00:46] <tziOm> just have to export it to png from solidworks..
[19:00:51] <les> ok
[19:05:23] <tziOm> there you go. pdf
[19:06:28] <tziOm> les - do you get it?
[19:07:56] <les> grr connection is failing
[19:08:04] <les> try once more
[19:08:22] <tziOm> ..trying..
[19:08:30] <tziOm> maby some fw is stopping it..
[19:08:38] <les> perhaps
[19:08:42] <tziOm> hmm..
[19:09:50] <tziOm> les - mail?
[19:10:00] <les> failed...yeah fw somewhere
[19:10:21] <les> yeah leswatts@lmwatts.com
[19:10:33] <les> (not woried about spam)
[19:11:07] <Jacky^> les: can i send you some commercial info ?
[19:11:09] <Jacky^> :P
[19:11:15] <les> haha
[19:11:18] <les> sure heh
[19:11:23] <Jacky^> :)
[19:12:35] <les> I really do not have a spam problem. just the usual meds and millions from africa...tha't about it
[19:13:08] <Jacky^> ok ..
[19:13:32] <tziOm> les - not the penis enlargement?
[19:13:39] <Jacky^> i will send you 10-15k mails from porn-sites
[19:13:48] <Jacky^> should be enough
[19:13:50] <les> oh, and a couple times a week I win the"european lottery"
[19:13:51] <Jacky^> :D
[19:14:01] <les> haha
[19:14:11] <tziOm> les - check your mbox
[19:14:16] <les> k
[19:14:34] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ machining a staaar :P
[19:14:55] <les> nothing yet tzi...might be a minute
[19:15:01] <les> while waiting...
[19:15:19] <les> let me say that inline skate bearings might be best for you
[19:15:42] <les> they have ok thrust load operated in db pairs
[19:16:01] <les> the only thing missing is axial stiffnes
[19:16:13] <les> for your machine no problem I think
[19:17:10] <tziOm> some guy told me the same..
[19:17:27] <tziOm> that regular bearing are ok used as AC if load is not too high
[19:17:36] <les> with proper inner and outer spacers they can be run as 3-5 degree angular contact
[19:17:42] <tziOm> they should take 1/3 of the axial load in the other direction
[19:19:19] <les> they have radial clearance. that means one bearing would have lots of axial clearance. Used in pairs with inner and outer sleeves this clearance can be removed
[19:20:10] <tziOm> les - do You have any drawings/info on how to do this right?
[19:20:33] <les> let me check
[19:25:24] <les> I do not have a drawing using deep groove bearings as angular pairs
[19:26:17] <les> I am having some registration problems...you may not see me on PM
[19:26:18] <les> but
[19:26:23] <les> business is good
[19:26:52] <tziOm> http://www.gmnbt.com/deepgroove_technology.htm
[19:27:13] <tziOm> didnt see you, no
[19:27:28] <tziOm> /msg nickserv register <password>
[19:27:41] <tziOm> /msg nickserv identify <password>
[19:28:43] <tziOm> got the mail yet btw?
[19:31:19] <fenn> * fenn mumbles something or other
[19:32:24] <fenn> can i tell which wires are the start and run windings of an induction motor by measuring the resistance between them?
[19:33:12] <fenn> it's not a capacitor start motor
[19:35:31] <Jacky^> hi fenn :)
[19:36:55] <fenn> maybe it doesn't matter anyway since i'm supposed to connect them all up anyway
[19:36:57] <fenn> bah
[19:37:08] <fenn> good morning jacky
[19:37:59] <Jacky^> fenn: wich motor ? how many wires ?
[19:38:03] <tziOm> les - still awake?
[19:38:38] <Jacky^> fenn: stepper ?
[19:39:16] <fenn> Jacky^: 1/4 hp AC induction motor
[19:39:24] <fenn> 4 wires
[19:39:35] <fenn> i think i've got it figured out
[19:39:36] <Jacky^> uhm.. ac
[19:39:46] <tziOm> ac == BLDC?
[19:39:58] <fenn> no, just a good old AC motor
[19:40:03] <fenn> for my lathe
[19:40:59] <Jacky^> fenn: no clue ..
[19:41:22] <Jacky^> but to try with a small transformer should be not dangerous.. i think
[19:43:32] <Jacky^> when no datasheet exist.. it seem to me the only way
[19:48:30] <les> sorry sorry long call
[19:48:48] <les> a commercial cnc router manufacturer wants to try emc
[19:49:04] <les> I'm goona get him on here
[19:49:20] <les> tzi...no mail!
[19:50:47] <tziOm> les - what?
[19:52:17] <les> another call
[19:54:03] <tziOm> les - check now.. sending from some other account..
[20:02:30] <les> got it tzi
[20:02:39] <les> I am on the phone a lot.
[20:02:49] <les> I talk on the phone for a living
[20:03:51] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as jack-gnam
[20:04:16] <tziOm> les - cool.. so, what do You think?
[20:04:24] <les> nice drawing!
[20:04:28] <les> yeah looks ok
[20:05:23] <tziOm> les - one question I have is the fasteners on the top i.e .. the 3 ones.. they are m6, and the verticals are 20x50 aluminum. Is this the way to fasten it. (other configurations?) what depth should I make the threads down, minimum?
[20:06:05] <les> about two diameters
[20:06:18] <tziOm> 2x6==12?
[20:06:20] <les> if you yorque to 75%
[20:06:22] <tziOm> thats a rot?
[20:07:21] <les> well, a properly tightened screw carries no external load.....
[20:08:14] <les> and at typical torque tables you need at least 2x diameter thread engagement to prevent stripping
[20:08:16] <tziOm> yorque?
[20:08:36] <les> torque...i.e. n-m
[20:09:04] <tziOm> 75% of what?
[20:09:20] <les> yield point of the fstener
[20:09:26] <les> fastener
[20:09:30] <tziOm> how can I figure that?
[20:09:50] <les> There are standard tables on the net
[20:10:04] <tziOm> les - would you place the fasteners other way? center of outer ones are 8mm from edge..
[20:10:13] <les> hunt upscrew...gives torque
[20:10:44] <les> a little close...but looks ok
[20:11:15] <tziOm> les - do You think I can go for m4's instead? .. and is it a rule-of-thumb with 2xdiam? that would make 8mm threads for m4s?
[20:11:35] <tziOm> ..deep threads
[20:12:36] <les> if they are hardened machine cap screws yeah m4 prob would be ok
[20:13:46] <tziOm> les - and the depth of the thread 8mm is ok? I really dont need more?
[20:14:12] <tziOm> les - are there guides on this type of design that you know of?
[20:14:29] <les> at least 8 mm. If the aluminum alloy is very soft, a bit more
[20:14:45] <les> but 8 or so for alloys like 6061 etc
[20:15:21] <tziOm> so 10 is good number then
[20:15:30] <les> yes
[20:15:32] <les> fine
[20:17:45] <les> phone call
[20:19:00] <LawrenceG> opps
[20:19:18] <les> bad propagaation delay lawrence
[20:19:36] <les> i'll call you
[20:19:45] <LawrenceG> ok
[20:21:05] <LawrenceG> no hearing you other than taps on mic
[20:21:37] <les> I have a problem on this end
[20:22:07] <les> i'm gonna reboot
[20:30:02] <LawrenceG> oh les.... where did you go.... must be a windows box!
[20:36:27] <jack-gnam> jack-gnam is now known as Jacky^
[20:48:29] <Jymmm> I swear greasing the slides is such a PITA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:00:39] <jepler> sounds like a euphemism to me
[21:02:20] <anonimasu> hm
[21:03:08] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[21:11:24] <Jymmm> jepler you pervert
[21:11:34] <Jymmm> jepler no wonder why i like you so much
[21:32:36] <fenn> gee who woulda thought it would take all day to hook a switch up to a motor :P
[21:32:59] <Jacky^> :D
[21:33:08] <Jymmm> fenn you wuss! cant you just touch the wires together when you need to!
[21:33:23] <fenn> hard to touch 4 wires together at once
[21:33:37] <Jymmm> fenn hey you have 10 fingers.... no excuse!
[21:33:56] <Jacky^> mmhh
[21:34:09] <Jacky^> you can use foots too
[21:34:13] <Jacky^> 10+10
[21:34:16] <Jacky^> :D
[21:34:30] <Jymmm> fenn See... what Jacky^ said.
[21:34:47] <Jacky^> lolZ
[21:34:50] <Jacky^> :)
[21:34:59] <Jacky^> fenn: kidding ..
[21:35:26] <Jymmm> fenn no he's not! YOu know those Italians, they use their feet for stomping grapes!
[21:35:36] <Jacky^> haha
[21:36:08] <Jacky^> thats why its nice :P
[21:36:43] <Jymmm> maybe it's why I don't like wine =)
[21:36:58] <Jacky^> rotfl
[21:37:01] <Jacky^> nahhh
[21:37:22] <Jacky^> today.. we use only cnc machine for wine
[21:37:28] <Jacky^> no foots :\
[21:37:40] <Jymmm> that's worse... now you have grease in the wine!
[21:37:51] <Jacky^> haha
[21:38:02] <Jacky^> ]:)
[21:42:08] <Jymmm> $1200 USD for 3 axis DRO package including scales (16x36x6) - is that a good price?
[21:59:28] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:59:32] <anonimasu> cute..
[21:59:47] <anonimasu> I dont know about that quality
[21:59:52] <anonimasu> there's lots of thoose dro's over here..
