#emc | Logs for 2005-10-03

[00:00:50] <ar11cc> any emc running lath type machines
[00:01:06] <alex_joni> not really ar11cc
[00:02:11] <ar11cc> is their a problem doing so
[00:02:33] <alex_joni> not a problem per se
[00:02:40] <alex_joni> just a bit of software missing ;)
[00:02:43] <steve_stallings> cutter compensation for a lathe is different and threading is not supported yet
[00:03:27] <steve_stallings> if you just want to profile parts without cutter comp, you could manage
[00:04:05] <ar11cc> ok tanks
[00:14:33] <alex_joni> night guys
[00:15:17] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[01:56:49] <gromit68> good evening
[01:58:58] <gromit68> good evening
[04:54:45] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/ (config README.auto): Backup the wiki config and update the README should anyone else need to know the layout at SF
[05:06:52] <Jymmm> *** WIKI's ARE ICKY ***
[05:13:53] <paul_c> I know, but some bugger will bitch like fsck if it goes west
[05:14:46] <Jymmm> can't please everyone all the time.
[05:17:12] <paul_c> hitting cvs hard in a sec
[05:39:11] <Jymmm> with bdi 4.31?
[05:39:21] <paul_c> wiki data
[05:39:40] <paul_c> there won't be a BDI-4.31
[05:40:06] <paul_c> not in the foreseeable future.
[05:40:21] <Jymmm> </smartass>
[06:55:15] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/ (82 files in 18 dirs): Auto update wiki from a cron job. Mon Oct 3 05:07:50 BST 2005
[06:55:20] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (131 files in 27 dirs): Auto update wiki from a cron job. Mon Oct 3 05:07:50 BST 2005
[06:55:26] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2-auto/wiki/ (797 files in 11 dirs): Auto update wiki from a cron job. Mon Oct 3 05:07:50 BST 2005
[06:55:38] <paul_c> Here it comes....
[12:03:56] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[12:14:57] <jozofero> finally here... can anybody tell me what is minimum RAM requirement for BDI4.30?
[12:17:54] <jozofero> at 32MB it tells me that it is not enough
[12:52:35] <cradek> I would recommend 256 at least
[12:52:54] <cradek> bdi4 is configured to be feature-rich, not lightweight.
[13:05:16] <jozofero> hmm, that little beast with PR200+ Cyrix is BIOS limited to 64MB, so what should I do next?
[13:05:28] <jozofero> (instead of BDI4)
[13:23:35] <cradek> is it currently running emc?
[13:25:06] <cradek> it's possible you could get it to run a very old distro, like the redhat-6.2 based one
[13:25:23] <cradek> but it would probably be better to look for a motherboard/cpu upgrade
[13:26:11] <cradek> you can get a motherboard/cpu in the 800 MHz range for around $20 on ebay
[13:26:15] <Jacky^> hello
[13:26:21] <cradek> hi
[13:27:06] <Jacky^> is this circuit ok to drive a small dc motor using pseudo-pwm and emc2 ? http://www.learn-c.com/l298bothsides.gif
[13:28:46] <cradek> Jacky^: sorry, I don't know
[13:29:19] <Jacky^> cradek: thanks, i will ask to alex_joni_away later :)
[13:29:37] <Jacky^> he probably know
[15:07:23] <jozofero> well, ebay? :D:D:D
[15:08:06] <jozofero> I will check with customs and bank charging $20-$30 for bank money transfer :D
[15:08:34] <cradek> jozofero: not in US? Surely those old machines are everywhere
[15:08:52] <cradek> jozofero: do you have a local computer recycler?
[15:09:13] <jozofero> heh, they are, but it depends what is OLD and what is it used to. how much is a new computer % of your monthly pay?
[15:09:34] <cradek> I have not bought a new computer in ten years
[15:09:49] <cradek> the previous generation of computer that everyone else is getting rid of is just fine for me
[15:10:09] <jozofero> no, how much is new one / by your monthly income...
[15:10:13] <cradek> oh, sorry, I did buy a new motherboard and processor 2-3 years ago
[15:10:30] <jozofero> new computer =400USD
[15:11:04] <cradek> I don't know the average monthly income here
[15:11:26] <cradek> maybe $1500?
[15:11:33] <cradek> so 1/4
[15:12:03] <jozofero> :) no matter, it shows how much are things valuable. so 0.25 is the coefficient, unimportant in budget.
[15:12:17] <jozofero> well, here it is about 1-1.5
[15:12:52] <cradek> another good reason to not buy a new computer
[15:13:02] <jozofero> that renders 800MHz Duron a still valuable machine in relative term.
[15:13:13] <cradek> ah
[15:13:26] <cradek> here, those are not valuable and companies/people discard them.
[15:13:48] <cradek> then, I use them since they are perfectly fine
[15:14:01] <jozofero> you can sell 800MHz computer with say, 20GB HDD and 256MB RAM much more in local advertising paper...
[15:14:23] <cradek> that would make a suitable emc machine
[15:14:28] <jozofero> but that is just because for personal use such machine is 5x more valuable in relative term :)
[15:14:40] <cradek> so does your existing machine run an old version of emc?
[15:15:14] <jozofero> Athlon 650, 386MB RAM,m 30BG HDD is in our family the main machine since 1999/2000
[15:15:52] <cradek> where do you live?
[15:16:16] <jozofero> I had some EMC versions on CDs, but I returned tyo play with it now, when I am going to need it, I am busy to return to PIC programming, but it still can be done easily with PIC
[15:17:35] <cradek> are you an experienced or new linux user?
[15:19:03] <jozofero> neither experiencee or used ;) I used linux before, but I need windows too, so I use win now.
[15:19:20] <jozofero> ..or new
[15:20:01] <cradek> maybe you could use BDI-EMC v2.18
[15:20:05] <cradek> it is based on redhat 6.2
[15:20:17] <cradek> especially if you could get 64MB RAM for your machine
[15:20:51] <cradek> on that system you could compile and run the latest versions of emc
[15:20:55] <jozofero> oh, will 32MB do?
[15:21:15] <cradek> 32MB will be very tight but it might work.
[15:21:53] <jozofero> It can only take 32MB in two 16MB SDRAM plus I could try adding EDO RAM, hmmm
[15:22:18] <jozofero> I am going elsewhere for a while, my brother just came for a visit
[15:22:23] <cradek> it is possible to run emc without X-windows
[15:22:29] <cradek> that should work well in only 32MB
[15:22:39] <cradek> but it will not be as fully functional
[15:27:35] <jepler> using "keystick", you mean?
[15:27:40] <cradek> yes
[15:44:05] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[15:44:17] <alex_joni> Jacky^: stop fooling around, and get a proper driver
[15:44:18] <alex_joni> :D
[15:44:25] <alex_joni> btw, the 2 L298 probably won't do
[15:44:44] <alex_joni> you could use an L293D for a DC motor, but that's about 0.5 Amps rated
[15:44:47] <alex_joni> pretty little
[15:44:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:45:02] <Jacky^> alex_joni: thanks
[15:45:51] <alex_joni> ciao
[15:57:06] <jozofero> :D 0.5A driver, well, I am redrawing linear current driver for stepper motors
[15:58:49] <jozofero> Designed to source/sink 3A per output, supply +-16V, tested with +-15A output - runs fine
[15:59:51] <jozofero> TDA7560 makes also good AC river, but AC only :(
[16:12:15] <Jymmm> Jacky^: EU reseller of Xylotex.com board --> http://www.simplycnc.com/triple.htm
[16:12:43] <ValarQ> Jymmm: what? parrot? where?
[16:13:07] <Jymmm> ValarQ you are such a goober! lol
[16:13:54] <ValarQ> goober?
[16:14:15] <ValarQ> is that some seaanimal you native englishspeakers eat?
[16:16:52] <Jymmm> ValarQ go have some coffee, LOTS AND LOTS of coffee.
[16:17:00] <Jymmm> you are still hung over
[16:18:23] <ValarQ> well, i'm having my first cup of coffee for today now (16:55)
[16:19:04] <Jymmm> first CUP?! finish the pot!
[16:19:20] <ValarQ> i will, believe me i will
[16:19:48] <Jymmm> lol
[16:19:51] <jozofero> Jymmm: what is the maximum frequency it can run at with manual drive?
[16:20:00] <jozofero> analog drive I mean.
[16:20:24] <Jymmm> analog drive?
[16:20:49] <Jymmm> it's an entire 3 axis driver/breakout board in one.
[16:21:05] <jozofero> yes, because you need fluently change the current in microdriven steppers
[16:21:40] <Jymmm> From DOs, I can get 180IPM
[16:22:00] <Jymmm> ~27KHz iirc
[16:22:01] <jozofero> 180IPM? what RPM is that?
[16:22:10] <Jymmm> fuck if I know =)
[16:22:22] <jozofero> oh, 27kHz, good
[16:24:50] <jozofero> anyway, for the highest speed/torque stepper motor, It is needed to use 2 differential outputs per motor, but 2.5A for 115 pounds, I think it is a good it in the UK, especially if comes with power source.
[16:25:45] <Jymmm> Jacky^: You've been fucking around with creating a driver for at least a month now. So unless you plan on selling the drivers, I'd suggest you just buy the xylotex board to get you up and running for now. You'll have so much other stuff you'll need to deal with to be mucking with the electronics aspect.
[16:26:14] <jozofero> oh, sorry I am blind, it is driver with step generator, okay...
[16:26:22] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm ..
[16:26:26] <Jacky^> thanks
[16:26:29] <Jymmm> jozofero xylotex.com
[16:26:30] <jozofero> Jacky^: do you want a driver design?
[16:26:39] <Jymmm> jozofero NO HE DOES NOT
[16:26:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks Jacky^ - buy the damn xylotex board
[16:26:57] <Jacky^> jozofero: i already have stepper drivers
[16:27:04] <jozofero> Jymm, xylotex employee, :)
[16:27:32] <Jacky^> just playng around emc2 and hal components to learn how they work
[16:27:38] <Jymmm> jozofero no, just tired of seeing Jacky^ beating his head into the wall.
[16:28:15] <Jymmm> Jacky^ quit fucking with everything.... get up and going now, then you can muck with things.
[16:29:05] <Jacky^> Jymmm: bah.. here, all is going wrong :\
[16:29:16] <jozofero> Jacky: well, I wanted to do something nice, and from 50% I made it. never seen an EMC2 anyway, because I would need a new module for step size output
[16:29:43] <Jymmm> Jacky^: I know. That's why I'm saying to get a xylotex board and use emc1.
[16:33:07] <jozofero> Especially, if there was easy way how to integrate EPP data transfers on parallel port, I wouldn't need interrupt rate of 2MHz
[16:33:37] <jozofero> As far as I saw, no PC-based computer is anywhere near of that mark.
[16:52:08] <jepler> why aren't there any inexpensive PCI digital I/O boards?
[16:53:02] <jepler> you can find PCI LPT boards for well under $20, so why not a 32-or-more I/O board for under $50...
[16:57:10] <jepler> (here's a dual-parallel board for $12 .. http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=550702&store=pcmall&source=pwbfroogle&adcampaign=email,pwbfroogle&wt.mc_id=pwbfroogle)
[16:57:21] <jozofero> jepler: because there are no standards on that... it all began with IBM PC XT creation... there were few devices designed and to this day they all work the same, like game port for example, that is a truly I/O device
[17:01:19] <jepler> sure there's a standard for generic digital I/O -- the 8255 or whatever it was called.
[17:02:35] <cradek> PCI bus -> [magic happens] -> 8255 -> digital I/O
[17:02:39] <jozofero> :D 8255, bwahahahahha
[17:03:14] <jozofero> well, current EPP is way faster!
[17:11:36] <jozofero> the LPT we can currently use offers some grat advantages, the other IO options don't, wait I may be able to find the site
[17:14:18] <Imperator_> jepler: do you know the mesanet 5i20 card ?
[17:15:23] <Imperator_> ok, it's not 20$ but 200$, only a zero more :-)
[17:15:56] <Imperator_> or if you find some others, like we in our german forum, its 150$ if you take five
[17:21:24] <jozofero> http://www.beyondlogic.org/epp/epp.htm
[17:21:50] <jozofero> it takes only a little glue logic to that
[17:25:35] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands Imperator_ the bill for the 'zero more' difference.
[17:26:18] <Imperator_> :-)
[17:26:56] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ gives Jymmm a 0$ note
[17:27:20] <Jymmm> * Jymmm take the $180 USD out of Imperator_ ass
[17:27:43] <Jymmm> that's $90 a cheek! =)
[17:28:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm tosses Imperator_ on the street corner like a cheap ho!
[17:49:06] <Jymmm> Imperator_ bet you won't make THAT mistake again =)
[17:49:33] <Jymmm> brb
[17:56:04] <Jymmm> I'm back! Did ya miss me?
[17:56:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm knows Imperator_ missed him =)
[20:24:57] <rcsu> hmm, im not able to build emc2 from cvs
[20:25:08] <rcsu> ill try rtai-3.2
[20:25:28] <rcsu> and get parse errors in /usr/include/rtai_sched.h
[20:28:35] <alex_joni> hello
[20:30:00] <rcsu> hi alex_joni
[20:30:12] <rcsu> im not able to build emc2 from cvs
[20:30:12] <alex_joni> hello there
[20:30:21] <rcsu> ill try rtai-3.2
[20:30:22] <alex_joni> wot's the problem?
[20:30:25] <rcsu> and get parse errors in /usr/include/rtai_sched.h
[20:30:59] <alex_joni> hmm
[20:31:06] <alex_joni> can you look at some stuff?
[20:31:12] <alex_joni> does ./configure complete ok?
[20:32:38] <rcsu> seems so, but multiple signatures for RT were found
[20:32:59] <rcsu> ah, and these are the wrong one
[20:33:14] <alex_joni> see.. eventually you can fix it yourself :P
[20:34:19] <rcsu> ok, it took finally the correct one
[20:34:24] <rcsu> 3.2
[20:36:22] <alex_joni> and? any difference?
[20:36:35] <rcsu> seems a broken rtai include install
[20:36:43] <Jymmm> les : Just the person I was looking for =)
[20:36:51] <alex_joni> yo Jymmm
[20:37:03] <Jymmm> hi alex_jello
[20:37:53] <alex_joni> heh
[20:37:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to learning :/
[20:39:19] <rcsu> the locations for the include files for rtai seems to have changed: new is /usr/realtime/include
[20:39:26] <rcsu> * rcsu is verifying that
[20:39:29] <alex_joni> that's the default
[20:39:35] <alex_joni> and it really should be that way
[20:39:46] <alex_joni> at least with 3.2 and default install
[20:39:49] <rcsu> but there is no -I in the cc call
[20:39:57] <rcsu> from emc2
[20:40:20] <alex_joni> hmm.. that's odd, how do you mean that?
[20:40:45] <rcsu> -I searches for include files in the given dir
[20:41:11] <rcsu> so, the .h are at the correct place, but emc2 isnt searching there
[20:41:42] <alex_joni> can you paste the Makefile.inc somewhere?
[20:41:48] <alex_joni> maybe dcc it over?
[20:41:55] <alex_joni> emc2/src/Makefile.inc
[20:43:17] <rcsu> http://rafb.net/paste/results/VKWqmu99.html
[20:45:30] <alex_joni> RTNAME = rtai-3.0
[20:45:34] <alex_joni> that doesn't feel right
[20:45:42] <alex_joni> what's your ./configure incantation?
[20:46:40] <alex_joni> here's the problem:
[20:46:41] <alex_joni> RTFLAGS := -I$(INC_DIR) -I/usr/include
[20:46:45] <alex_joni> is expanded from:
[20:46:53] <alex_joni> RTFLAGS := -I$(INC_DIR) -I@RTDIR@/include
[20:47:03] <alex_joni> seems @RTDIR@ is /usr
[20:47:08] <alex_joni> which obviously is bad
[20:47:24] <alex_joni> you should try ./configure --with-rtai=/usr/realtime
[20:48:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes back to learning
[20:48:33] <alex_joni> rcsu: if you still don't get it to work, mail me
[20:54:19] <Jymmm> What is or the purpose of a 'post processor'?
[20:54:44] <alex_joni> that's a mail thingie
[20:54:48] <alex_joni> to process post
[20:54:51] <alex_joni> LOL
[20:54:58] <jepler> Jymmm: I think people mean 'a program which turns a 3d model into g-code' when they talk about a 'post' or 'postprocessor'.
[20:55:06] <alex_joni> jepler: right
[20:55:12] <alex_joni> later guys
[20:56:05] <Jymmm> jepler isn't that the purpose of a CAM program?
[20:57:20] <Jymmm> jepler: Example... at the top of this page is a link for 'post processor(s)' - then wth is the appliation suppose to do? http://www.bobcad.com/index.php?select_page=support&click_source=na&campaign=na&content=na&visitor_tag=8679
[20:58:28] <jepler> "The $195- annual membership fee is simply another added benefit."? WTF does that mean?
[20:59:09] <Jymmm> emc, mach2, turbocnc, etc are all controllers for which you describe your machine and accepts gcode, so what could possible need to know the machien again?
[21:02:02] <Jymmm> or is 'post processor' just another term for CAM application?
[21:03:43] <LawrenceG> heyJymmm
[21:06:01] <rcsu> hmm, emc2 looks like a real hack atm
[21:11:17] <les> hi guys
[21:11:18] <Jymmm> howdy LawrenceG
[21:11:22] <Jymmm> les !
[21:11:43] <les> looking at auction of big brohill furniture plant closing
[21:11:52] <les> lots of machines cheap
[21:11:57] <les> cncn routers too
[21:12:12] <Jymmm> les you were saying the other day that i was using the wrong tooling for wood, what endmills should I be looking at?
[21:12:17] <Jymmm> les where?
[21:12:47] <les> You should be looking at router bits....try onsrud
[21:13:03] <les> hey big boxes of cnc router bits at that auction!
[21:13:05] <Jymmm> les But I want some 1/8 and 1/32 stuff
[21:13:15] <les> they have em
[21:13:49] <les> remember my smallest end mills are 0.01" diameter
[21:14:09] <Jymmm> les well, I might need that too =)
[21:14:12] <les> gee...do you think I ever break one?
[21:14:22] <Jymmm> where is this auction at? NC ?
[21:14:37] <les> i''l get you a link
[21:14:52] <icee> les: where do you get your small end mills from?
[21:16:55] <LawrenceG> hi guys... Jymmm did you get your question answered abouts posts?
[21:17:07] <Jymmm> LawrenceG: not really.
[21:18:11] <LawrenceG> well each machine controller uses different flavors of gcode.... so in order to make the cam programs work with a lot of machines, they came up with posts which convert code from the cam program to gcode for the machine
[21:18:59] <rcsu> damn, i get this error: Can't find variable PARAMETER_FILE in section [RS274NGC] of file /home/su/src/CAD-Fraese/emc2/configs/emc.ini.
[21:19:07] <rcsu> in emc2
[21:21:53] <les> wow wow new 5 hp mtors for like 5 bucks
[21:21:58] <les> motors
[21:22:32] <Jymmm> les so, how far is it from your place?
[21:22:38] <LawrenceG> # Part program interpreter section --------------------------------------------
[21:22:38] <LawrenceG> [RS274NGC]
[21:22:38] <LawrenceG> # File containing interpreter variables
[21:22:38] <LawrenceG> PARAMETER_FILE = configs/emc.var
[21:22:53] <LawrenceG> rcsu... try adding that stuff
[21:22:54] <les> 100 miles from me
[21:23:02] <Jymmm> les lucky bastard
[21:23:11] <Jymmm> you could drive your tractor there =)
[21:23:42] <les> I'm thinkin rental truck....because as you know I am currently upping the hp of everything
[21:24:05] <Jymmm> les lol (I want 'downshear' cutters, correct?)
[21:24:17] <les> there is a huge shoda cnc router there...curent bid $1300
[21:24:22] <les> yeah downsheaqr
[21:24:26] <les> oops
[21:24:30] <Jymmm> =)
[21:24:44] <les> gettin too excited
[21:25:02] <rcsu> LawrenceG: the config is in there, i have checked it
[21:25:09] <Jymmm> les Well, it looks like you'll need to put the golfcourse on hold till you get the new 200,000 sq ft building erected.
[21:25:09] <rcsu> LawrenceG: prior to that post
[21:25:18] <les> heh
[21:25:52] <Jymmm> les You keep saying you need more room, might as well go big... 40K+
[21:26:01] <Jymmm> sqft
[21:26:08] <les> It's good for me, but it's sad. The great north carolina furniture industry is collapsing
[21:26:19] <les> well, might as well get their stuff
[21:26:28] <Jymmm> les Thank Ikea for that.
[21:27:09] <les> This assumes cottage industry can do what a large vertically managed furniture conglomerate could not
[21:27:26] <les> a lot of the stuff is big though...too big
[21:27:37] <les> like that shoda cnc...
[21:27:46] <les> 3 20 hp spindles
[21:27:46] <Jymmm> les strip it for parts
[21:30:04] <rcsu> oi, Unable to lock file /home/su/src/CAD-Fraese/emc2/configs/emc.ini
[21:30:14] <rcsu> why to lock a config file ?
[21:30:29] <rcsu> btw, it over a nfs share
[21:30:55] <jepler> rcsu: the ini file is written when emc exits. I didn't know it was locked, though.
[21:31:33] <rcsu> jepler: if you first start emc2, then you need a file
[21:31:49] <rcsu> not exited yet
[22:26:16] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[22:31:20] <rayh> Hi Alex
[22:31:29] <alex_joni> what's up?
[22:32:47] <rayh> learning to install debian from cdroms
[22:32:55] <alex_joni> heh.. nice
[22:33:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni used the netinstall
[22:33:21] <rayh> That would take months here!
[22:33:51] <Jymmm> rayh you need new pigeons
[22:33:54] <rayh> didn't you run novell/suse for a while
[22:34:17] <rayh> Jymmm: how true.
[22:35:27] <alex_joni> I did.. suse
[22:35:45] <alex_joni> I started to dislike it when novell came into the picture
[22:37:33] <rayh> ah.
[22:43:34] <alex_joni> right, going to bed
[22:43:35] <alex_joni> night guys
[22:43:38] <jepler> see ya
[22:43:52] <rayh> bye
[22:43:55] <alex_joni> anyone still around that might help rcsu start emc2 if he comes back?
[22:44:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just mailed him some thoughts
[22:44:24] <ValarQ> i'm of to bed as well
[22:44:31] <alex_joni> nnight captain
[22:44:34] <alex_joni> :P
[22:44:39] <ValarQ> night mr Joni :)
[22:44:56] <alex_joni> jepler: thanks again for that tip
[22:44:59] <alex_joni> think I'll go with b&h
[22:45:25] <alex_joni> err.. bhp