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[00:00:03] <les> I had to spray an infestation I have here a couple weeks ago
[00:00:26] <les> If you let it get a foothold it is too late
[00:00:31] <robin_sz> I presume its the roots that keep it alive underground for next year?
[00:01:01] <les> chop it into pieces and each piece will root
[00:01:08] <les> yeah it is annual
[00:01:23] <les> well perrenial but dies back in winter
[00:01:25] <robin_sz> so spray it with somehting that goes deep into the plant
[00:01:51] <les> yeah roundup will get it
[00:01:57] <les> systemic
[00:02:00] <Jacky^> ouch
[00:02:14] <robin_sz> yeah, I use that a bit
[00:02:19] <Jacky^> never seen a thing like that
[00:02:20] <robin_sz> vey efficient
[00:02:52] <les> and not too dangerous...it just metabolizes into salt and salts the plant to death
[00:03:39] <robin_sz> http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/japknot.htm
[00:03:44] <robin_sz> this is the one we have ...
[00:04:01] <les> The southern appalachians are a temperate rain forest....increadible biodiversity
[00:05:23] <les> glyphosate....that's roundup.
[00:05:48] <les> knotweed
[00:05:51] <les> hmm
[00:06:35] <les> I am interested in the weed purslane...it grows here
[00:06:55] <Jacky^> les can the animals eat that herb ?
[00:07:14] <les> six percent omega three fatty acid....eat it or make diesel from it!
[00:07:29] <les> tastes good in salad
[00:07:33] <robin_sz> actually, its not roundup I use, but I fogot the name .. I'll remember soon
[00:07:45] <Jacky^> why do not take 10-20k cows ?
[00:07:58] <robin_sz> ahh, thats it .. broadshot
[00:08:05] <les> haha
[00:08:14] <robin_sz> kills everything except grass
[00:08:16] <les> I could have some cattle
[00:08:24] <robin_sz> needs $tinyAmount
[00:08:28] <les> lots of fenced land
[00:08:47] <les> and the meat in the U.S. stores is basically poison
[00:09:17] <robin_sz> no .. thats not right.
[00:09:20] <les> tastes like plastic...full of hormones
[00:09:36] <robin_sz> meat is murder ;)
[00:09:43] <les> heh
[00:09:46] <robin_sz> * robin_sz goes off on his vege rant
[00:10:33] <les> I would have trouble butchering animals anyway
[00:10:50] <les> so I am pulling up some of the barbed wire
[00:11:01] <les> fence
[00:11:19] <les> I have a few miles of it!!!
[00:11:50] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:12:09] <robin_sz> with the tractor I trust?
[00:12:18] <les> yeah.
[00:12:22] <robin_sz> useful sometimes to have a boundary marked for your land
[00:12:27] <les> chain and the front end loader
[00:12:41] <robin_sz> yep
[00:13:28] <les> I am just taking some out...not all
[00:13:59] <les> acchhh I was cooking noodles and it boiled dry
[00:14:01] <les> damn it
[00:14:18] <les> noodle charcoal
[00:14:47] <robin_sz> oopsy
[00:14:56] <robin_sz> anyway, cooking is womens work!
[00:15:20] <les> unless you are out in the woods and there are none there
[00:15:23] <les> haha
[00:16:21] <robin_sz> well, we've seen the film .. we know what you backwoodsmen get up to ;)
[00:16:30] <les> gulp
[00:16:54] <anna_emc> supergulp
[00:17:02] <robin_sz> that reminds me .. must buy a compound bow
[00:17:06] <les> Women like me at first...but then get REAL mad
[00:17:07] <les> haha
[00:17:52] <les> not sure why
[00:18:14] <les> if I knew I wouldn't have ex wives!
[00:18:40] <robin_sz> you only got a couple
[00:19:00] <les> I think I work all the time doing engineering and ignore them.
[00:19:21] <anna_emc> nighttttttt
[00:19:26] <les> haha
[00:19:26] <anna_emc> au revoir
[00:19:31] <les> night anna
[00:19:45] <Jacky^> notte anna_emc
[00:19:50] <anna_emc> ciao
[00:20:15] <robin_sz> you reckon a compound boiw is more fun than a recurve?
[00:20:24] <les> ahem
[00:20:36] <les> uh I have a compound
[00:21:11] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PSE-NOVA-COMPOUND-BOW-IN-BLUE_W0QQitemZ7181716255QQcategoryZ20840QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[00:21:47] <les> oh...jacky....the movie "deliverance" was filmed about 10 km from where I am now
[00:22:02] <les> need to keep that compond bow handy!
[00:24:42] <robin_sz> I figure they must be similar power to a .22LR
[00:24:53] <robin_sz> through a piece of 1/2" ply?
[00:25:00] <les> easily
[00:25:09] <robin_sz> 3/4?
[00:25:15] <les> yes
[00:25:21] <robin_sz> gulp
[00:25:38] <les> they are required to be 50 lb draw here
[00:25:46] <robin_sz> required?
[00:25:49] <robin_sz> for hunting?
[00:25:59] <les> for hunting...but I don't hunt
[00:26:21] <robin_sz> I just fancy a little target practice in the field
[00:26:33] <les> well, I hunt for grasshoppers to feed that bug.
[00:26:36] <les> that's all.
[00:26:59] <robin_sz> Iused to hunt ...
[00:27:05] <robin_sz> thats what turned me vege
[00:27:07] <les> me too
[00:28:16] <Jacky^> robin_sz: a 8 .00 xtal is usually used on servo driver ?
[00:28:23] <les> anyway, my teeth are so bad all I can eat is mush.
[00:28:41] <robin_sz> xtal on servo drives? no need usually
[00:28:54] <robin_sz> unless there is a micro on board
[00:29:03] <les> clock perhaps?
[00:29:20] <robin_sz> but xtal?
[00:29:21] <Jacky^> Z8681B1 ..
[00:29:29] <robin_sz> ahh, it has a micro
[00:29:33] <Jacky^> and a strange components
[00:29:44] <robin_sz> the famous Z8 ...
[00:29:51] <Jacky^> that looks like an ic 20 pins,
[00:29:56] <robin_sz> yep
[00:30:08] <Jacky^> sgs IC500 88628
[00:30:18] <robin_sz> built in eprom usually
[00:30:20] <Jacky^> cant find any datasheet online :\
[00:30:32] <Jacky^> yes, there are also eprom
[00:30:35] <robin_sz> IIRC the Z8 had built in tiny basic interp??
[00:31:20] <Jacky^> robin_sz: are you talking to me ?
[00:31:32] <Jacky^> i've no idea :(
[00:32:00] <Jacky^> i seen the xtal near the cpu..
[00:32:22] <Jacky^> 5 IC around .. SN74XX
[00:32:22] <robin_sz> http://fruttenboel.verhoeven272.nl/softy/z8techman1.html
[00:32:26] <Jacky^> umpf
[00:32:31] <Jacky^> a lot compex
[00:32:39] <Jacky^> complex
[00:33:49] <Jacky^> mmh, too hard for me
[00:34:37] <robin_sz> old board
[00:34:39] <robin_sz> 1984
[00:34:42] <jepler> robin_sz: yeah, you were right about the BASIC interpeter. "The Z8671 MCU is a complete microcomputer preprogrammed with a BASIC/Debug interpreter."
[00:34:45] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:34:57] <jepler> but not in this particular Z8
[00:35:06] <robin_sz> I remember playing with them many years ago on a couple of projects
[00:35:16] <robin_sz> yeah, romless variant
[00:36:27] <Jacky^> pratically.. will be impossible for me to drive the motors on this board in some way
[00:36:58] <robin_sz> not really .. just find the control signal to the amplifiers, remove the rest
[00:37:03] <Jacky^> i can just turn it with the keyboard on the other side
[00:37:13] <robin_sz> drive the conrol signal froma Vital or STG card ...
[00:38:01] <Jacky^> robin_sz: its a good idea to check the signals on L298 input pins ?
[00:38:12] <Jacky^> with the scope
[00:38:16] <robin_sz> os there a 297?
[00:38:27] <Jacky^> no 296
[00:38:30] <Jacky^> ops
[00:38:43] <Jacky^> no 297, just an L296 near the PS
[00:38:54] <robin_sz> I think thats just a regulator
[00:39:32] <robin_sz> time to trace out the circuit near the 298 then :)
[00:39:35] <Jacky^> 2 big capacitors of 3.300 uF 40 V
[00:40:14] <Jacky^> robin_sz: yeah.. is what im tryng to do
[00:45:19] <robin_sz> just a test meter, a pinout of the chips and a piece of paper and pencil is all you need
[00:45:21] <robin_sz> and time
[00:45:47] <Jacky^> how manu years ? :(
[00:45:59] <Jacky^> its doubleface pcb
[00:46:05] <robin_sz> not long, 2 or 3 hours maybe
[00:46:10] <Jacky^> :(
[00:46:18] <Jacky^> i will try..
[00:46:20] <robin_sz> just for 1 channel of servo drive
[00:46:31] <robin_sz> work on the L298
[00:46:34] <Jacky^> it has 2 l298
[00:46:41] <Jacky^> du motors
[00:46:46] <Jacky^> two*
[00:46:51] <robin_sz> they will be 2 identical circuits
[00:46:58] <robin_sz> so just trace 1
[00:47:03] <Jacky^> yeah..
[00:47:32] <les> Today I cleaned and set up an old tek storage scope that my dad mailed from florida
[00:47:33] <robin_sz> you should find the current and direction inputs eventually
[00:47:39] <robin_sz> wow ..
[00:47:43] <les> he included three plug ins
[00:47:44] <robin_sz> a Big tek?
[00:47:55] <les> yeah
[00:48:09] <robin_sz> wow .. museum piece :)
[00:48:12] <les> I really can afford modern scopes
[00:48:19] <les> just cheap I guess
[00:48:28] <Jacky^> :)
[00:48:32] <les> it does work well
[00:48:40] <les> 3 channels
[00:48:45] <robin_sz> this is the big like 500mm tall one? plain alloy front?
[00:48:45] <les> pretty fast
[00:49:37] <les> I forgot the number. It does have alphanumeric characters on the crt display
[00:49:43] <robin_sz> o0h
[00:49:48] <robin_sz> thats modern then
[00:49:59] <robin_sz> I was thinking of the old valve ones
[00:50:06] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:50:10] <robin_sz> big old collectors item
[00:50:11] <Jacky^> nice
[00:50:13] <les> it's surplus from the cape
[00:50:22] <les> cape canaveral
[00:50:31] <robin_sz> I think I remember using one a long time ago like that
[00:50:45] <les> yeah me too...like 20 years ago
[00:51:08] <robin_sz> 7633?
[00:51:15] <les> let me check
[00:52:41] <Jacky^> here's the mine:
http://www.migert.hu/termekek/elektromos/escort/oszc/eas201/eas201.html
[00:52:49] <Jacky^> eas-200 model
[00:53:53] <robin_sz> hungarian ... careful, it will trick you ;)
[00:54:08] <Jacky^> i bought in italy :(
[00:55:06] <Jacky^> 8 years ago.. for a million of lire
[00:55:21] <Jacky^> about E. 500
[00:55:23] <les> it's a 7623 with 7a16A,7A18, and 7B53A time base
[00:55:31] <les> huge
[00:55:48] <robin_sz> mmm ... must be simialr sort of thing to the 7633 I guess
[00:55:55] <robin_sz> http://www.testelectronics.com/used/tek7633.htm
[00:56:01] <robin_sz> thats what I remember using anyway
[00:56:05] <les> looking
[00:56:44] <robin_sz> you can slap a camera on the front too, picks something up from thjose 3 contacts .. ours was a polaroid
[00:56:51] <les> ah...looks exactly like that
[00:57:20] <robin_sz> nice scope
[00:57:20] <les> seems identical
[00:57:25] <robin_sz> lots of buttons :)
[00:57:31] <les> yeah
[00:57:35] <robin_sz> and they light up too
[00:57:40] <les> yup
[00:57:54] <les> ok for free I guess.
[00:58:10] <robin_sz> really, that was about the pinnacle of clever standard electronics I think
[00:58:30] <robin_sz> multi action push, twist, pull switches etc
[00:58:34] <les> yes, back in the paleozoic age
[00:58:43] <robin_sz> all went a bit digital after that
[00:59:02] <les> giant scope, lots of teeny tiny buttons
[00:59:30] <les> it is pretty fast I guess
[00:59:33] <robin_sz> but .. consider thw age and then the 1ghz bandwidth available ...
[00:59:42] <les> I can see the averaGE LOGIC GLITCH
[00:59:50] <robin_sz> stunning really
[01:00:01] <les> oops
[01:00:16] <robin_sz> I still lust after a Tek 2445B
[01:00:21] <les> hit caps lock
[01:00:43] <les> I had the latest tek in chicago
[01:00:51] <les> forgot the number
[01:00:56] <robin_sz> digital?
[01:01:02] <robin_sz> ie smapling?
[01:01:06] <les> but I remember the purchase req I filled out
[01:01:12] <robin_sz> heh :)
[01:01:13] <les> $16k
[01:01:16] <robin_sz> not cheap tek gear
[01:01:45] <robin_sz> we had lots of tek waveform monitors at the bbc from the late 60s, 70s
[01:01:52] <robin_sz> valve gear
[01:01:55] <les> anyway this old one LOOKS brand new
[01:02:01] <les> it will work
[01:02:15] <robin_sz> built on ceramic tag strip with silver coated slots to solder into
[01:02:27] <les> better than the B&K I have been using
[01:02:34] <robin_sz> have to use silver solder or it leaches away the silver and drops apart
[01:02:42] <les> heh
[01:02:59] <robin_sz> they even provide a little reel of solver solder in the back of the scope, just in case
[01:03:19] <les> I will look!
[01:04:09] <robin_sz> only if they are built on the ceramic strips .. yours is much later than that
[01:04:16] <les> oh
[01:04:27] <robin_sz> im talkign valve stuff ...
[01:04:48] <les> only valves I have are guitar amps
[01:06:19] <robin_sz> heh ... ok ..
[01:06:21] <robin_sz> http://www.miami.muohio.edu/president/personal/w8zr/eztuner/ezconstruction.htm
[01:06:41] <robin_sz> scroll down till you see a white terminal strip .. read the text to the right :)
[01:06:52] <Jacky^> doh, i found a date on the board, 4/3/87 ..
[01:07:46] <les> I see it
[01:08:24] <les> jacky...87....we are both using stone age stuff here!
[01:08:30] <les> well
[01:08:35] <les> ceramic age
[01:08:37] <robin_sz> actually, that is a nice project ...
[01:08:49] <robin_sz> the C and L are driven by steppers :)
[01:08:54] <les> cool
[01:09:20] <robin_sz> oh, 2 C's ...
[01:09:28] <robin_sz> and a tapped L ..
[01:10:12] <robin_sz> some use a "rollercoaster" variable L ... a spiral L, with a pick up wheel, so as you rotate the L the pickup wheel moves along
[01:10:24] <les> I might have to do the acoustic equivalent of that on the air generator
[01:10:32] <les> well, switched capacitor
[01:10:38] <robin_sz> anyway, nicely built bit of kit for a hobbyist
[01:10:44] <les> yes
[01:10:49] <les> very clean
[01:11:45] <les> Right now the air generator stuff is just talking to lawyers
[01:11:49] <les> yuck
[01:11:53] <robin_sz> you know, some of the last bastions of good desing and engineering are now in the hobbyists fields
[01:12:07] <les> oh for sure
[01:12:09] <robin_sz> yeah? but ti must be close to being a product then
[01:12:20] <les> they think so
[01:12:38] <robin_sz> patentable?
[01:12:46] <les> I am not so sure
[01:12:49] <les> oh yes
[01:12:57] <les> filing soon
[01:13:10] <robin_sz> good
[01:13:17] <robin_sz> make it nice and wide :)
[01:13:35] <les> that is exactly what we are doing...
[01:13:48] <robin_sz> "another embodiment, similar to iv but with ..."
[01:13:48] <les> we always try to patent the wheel and fire...
[01:14:25] <robin_sz> you cant patent fire!
[01:14:32] <robin_sz> MS already have that one
[01:14:36] <les> consigned to them...I am just hired help
[01:14:38] <les> but
[01:14:47] <robin_sz> your name goes on right?
[01:14:55] <les> My fees are pretty damned good!
[01:15:00] <les> yeah name goes on
[01:15:08] <robin_sz> hey, I saw a jopb for you
[01:15:11] <les> so what
[01:15:16] <robin_sz> but there is a entry test ...
[01:15:19] <les> I have a lot already
[01:15:24] <les> ?
[01:15:27] <robin_sz> nah this is a good job ...
[01:15:33] <robin_sz> director of FEMA
[01:15:42] <les> haha
[01:15:48] <robin_sz> ok .. heres the test
[01:15:59] <robin_sz> you are going to rescue some people from a flood
[01:16:05] <robin_sz> do you take :
[01:16:11] <robin_sz> a) food for them
[01:16:14] <robin_sz> b) water
[01:16:27] <robin_sz> c) M16 with grenade launcher?
[01:17:08] <les> d) none of the above. I just sit on my ass while people starve and drown!
[01:17:12] <les> do I pass?
[01:17:23] <robin_sz> c or D are both acceptable answers
[01:17:29] <les> hahaha
[01:18:00] <robin_sz> Im still trying to figure out why every shot of "rescuers" is 3 guys in an airboat that is armed to the teeth
[01:18:10] <les> yeah.
[01:18:46] <robin_sz> "well, it how we saved Iraq" ;)
[01:18:55] <les> heh
[01:18:57] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is in cynical mode
[01:19:42] <les> yeah...they have oil in new orleans just like iraq...we should have just blown em up....
[01:19:50] <les> now I pass for sure right?
[01:20:04] <les> haha
[01:20:37] <robin_sz> heh
[01:20:52] <les> They had weapons of mass destruction...like jumbaliya
[01:21:19] <robin_sz> when Croatia had all that trouble, some cynic said, their best hope was to start digging for oil ;)
[01:22:05] <les> I'm gonna go. I have to clean out my burned pasta pan and start over. I'm hungry.
[01:22:13] <robin_sz> bye
[01:22:17] <les> The mantis is full but not me!
[01:22:22] <les> later!
[01:22:26] <robin_sz> night
[01:35:03] <Jacky^> night everybody
[06:21:45] <Jymmm> Anyone have any suggestions on opening up a radial bearing mounting block where the holes is too small (tapered) by this much ---><---
[07:54:29] <a-l-p-h-a> Jymmm, locktite 609
[07:55:02] <Jymmm> a-l-p-h-a opening, not filling a gap. but thanks for the idea.
[07:56:17] <a-l-p-h-a> lathe, and fine sandpaper to remove.
[07:56:26] <Jymmm> no lathe
[07:56:34] <a-l-p-h-a> how big of a part?
[07:57:02] <Jymmm> ~1.5" sq
[07:57:24] <a-l-p-h-a> hand sand it...
[07:57:41] <a-l-p-h-a> or bore it with a mill...
[07:58:53] <Jymmm> it's the bearing mounting block for the leadscrew. I have no mill/lathe. They'll just have to refab the parts. Even tried a lil grease and tapping the bearing in - no go.
[07:59:36] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[07:59:40] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[08:00:06] <a-l-p-h-a> why not press it?
[08:00:08] <a-l-p-h-a> arbor?
[08:00:44] <Jymmm> It SHOULD slip fit in, they just screwed up making it in their $86K cnc center is all.
[08:01:15] <Jymmm> In the original blocks , it fits perfectly.
[08:01:26] <Jymmm> (those ones are jsut too short is all)
[08:01:46] <Jymmm> tis ok, already emailed em.
[08:01:53] <Jymmm> thanks though, appreciated.
[08:03:02] <Jymmm> ok, I'm outta here, Night all!
[11:51:24] <Jacky^> hello
[12:05:16] <Jacky^> looking for connect 6N137 optocouplers to parport
[12:05:28] <Jacky^> anyone know how to ?
[14:32:26] <bosone> hello :)
[14:33:57] <Jacky^> hey bosone
[14:35:20] <bosone> hi Jacky^!
[14:36:21] <Jacky^> hi paul_c
[14:36:39] <paul_c> Afternoon Jacky^
[14:37:47] <bosone> hi paul_c
[14:38:01] <Jacky^> i'm tryng to assemble the optoisolator circuit using the 6N137
[14:38:03] <paul_c> ditto bosone
[14:38:31] <Jacky^> looking at the datasheet, it seem required dual 5V PS
[14:39:00] <paul_c> Not sure the average parport can supply enough current for most optoisolators..
[14:39:00] <Jacky^> so, i thinked to use 5V from pc PS in input
[14:39:51] <paul_c> You will need +5V from somewhere...
[14:39:52] <Jacky^> and 5V PS from a dedicated circuit i build with a small transformer and an L7805 for output
[14:40:07] <Jacky^> and logic of drivers..
[14:40:19] <Jacky^> should this be correct ?
[14:40:44] <Jacky^> i'm testing the 6N137 in a breadboard with dualchannel scope
[14:41:03] <Jacky^> the squarewave seem to be ok
[14:41:14] <Jacky^> not inverted in the output
[14:42:20] <Jacky^> I hope it work ..
[14:43:28] <Jacky^> the thing i'm not sure is the gnd
[14:43:59] <Jacky^> i think gnd form parport should be isolated from gnd of other 5V ps output..
[14:44:08] <Jacky^> not tiled togheter
[14:44:10] <paul_c> each opto has two gnd pins...
[14:44:32] <Jacky^> they should be tiled togheter ?
[14:44:45] <paul_c> These must be kept separate
[14:44:53] <Jacky^> oh,, ok
[14:45:06] <paul_c> Tie them togather, the circuit is no longer isolated.
[14:45:14] <Jacky^> right
[14:45:18] <Jacky^> ok, thanks :)
[14:45:35] <paul_c> Same for the +5V
[14:46:00] <Jacky^> understood
[14:46:02] <Jacky^> :)
[14:46:43] <Jacky^> pratically the gnd from parport must be isolated too
[14:47:15] <Jacky^> is the same gnd of 5V ps input on optoisolators
[14:48:02] <Jacky^> so, it will be separated from 5V +- of logic driver circuits
[14:50:08] <paul_c> Use the +5V and Gnd from the computer for the optoisolator(s) connected to the parport
[14:50:15] <_AchiestDragon> _AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
[14:50:26] <Jacky^> paul_c: yes
[14:50:39] <paul_c> Much easier to draw it than trying to describe..
[14:50:39] <Jacky^> the wrong thing now its,
[14:50:56] <Jacky^> that i used a metallic pc case for the driver
[14:51:13] <Jacky^> and a parport with metallic gnd,
[14:51:23] <Jacky^> in a PCI place
[14:51:49] <Jacky^> so, actually, the gnd from parport is togheter the other gnd from drivers circuit
[14:52:35] <Jacky^> i will isolate it in some way
[14:53:15] <Jacky^> thats maybe why i burned some pci parport
[14:53:18] <paul_c> You using the same case for the computer and the stepper drives ?
[14:53:21] <Jacky^> and some l297 :\
[14:53:34] <Jacky^> paul_c: no 2 separates case
[14:53:51] <Jacky^> i used an old case for the drivers and PS
[14:53:54] <Jacky^> horizontal case
[14:54:31] <Jacky^> but you know, the parallel cable as metallic ground around ..
[14:54:35] <paul_c> The computer & stepper dives would be connected via the earth cable only then...
[14:55:21] <Jacky^> yeah
[14:55:52] <Jacky^> i will do some photos later ..
[14:56:10] <Jacky^> also of an old board with a servoseriver I found
[14:56:20] <paul_c> The D socket on the drive case needs to be insulated from the chassis
[14:56:35] <Jacky^> right
[14:56:41] <Jacky^> it isnt now..
[14:56:53] <paul_c> and don't wire the outer shell to earth.
[14:57:04] <Jacky^> ok
[14:58:41] <paul_c> just make sure both cases are connected to a bonded earth connection.
[14:59:02] <paul_c> the yello/green wire in the mains lead.
[14:59:54] <Jacky^> tnx :)
[15:14:08] <bosone> in the next days i'd like to make a script to convert RS274X to RS274NGC, they are very similar:
[15:14:09] <bosone> http://www.artwork.com/gerber/appl2.htm
[15:14:09] <bosone> http://www.artwork.com/gerber/274x/rs274x.htm
[15:14:09] <bosone> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerber_File
[15:15:18] <bosone> i found something like full spec
http://www.techcircuits.com/docs/rs274x.pdf
[15:19:44] <bosone> so i can use emc as a gerber photoplotter
[15:20:35] <paul_c> Why do something that has already been done ?
[15:21:02] <paul_c> http://www.yty.net/cnc/eagle2emc.tar.gz - Converts Gerber to G-code
[15:22:31] <bosone> wow great!!
[16:02:43] <paul_c> everyone: HIDE>!
[16:03:08] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hides
[16:03:34] <Jymmm> why are we hiding?
[16:04:01] <paul_c> 15:41:23] Jymmm (n=somebody@unaffiliated/jymmm) has joined channel #emc
[16:04:11] <Jymmm> that bastard!
[16:04:42] <Jacky^> lol
[16:04:45] <paul_c> at least he isn't a damned troll.
[16:04:56] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm :P
[16:05:26] <Jymmm> Hi paul_c, increase your breast safely and naturally!
[16:05:38] <Jymmm> mornin Jacky^
[16:05:50] <paul_c> Jymmm: That's pill spammers..
[16:06:13] <Jymmm> paul_c: CONGRADUALTIONS! You have won the national lottery!
[16:06:46] <paul_c> hrmm... Doesn't California have laws against that sort of thing ?
[16:07:16] <Jymmm> Probably, but when you have offshor servers/connections, it really doens't matter.
[16:07:33] <paul_c> (what do I need another winning lottery ticket for anywy..)
[16:08:15] <Jymmm> paul_c to give to Jacky^
[16:10:07] <paul_c> riightt.... Then he palms Anna off on me while he moves to Barbados.
[16:10:34] <Jymmm> paul_c: Didn't you always want a live in maid/slave?
[16:10:46] <paul_c> another one ?
[16:10:48] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ is uploading photos..
[16:11:19] <Jymmm> paul_c: WEll, at least a seconds one that can cuss you out in italian anyway.
[16:12:08] <paul_c> what's Italian for "put a sock in it" ?
[16:12:51] <Jymmm> paul_c: The same as "I'm going to hit you over the head with this cast iron skillet"
[16:13:24] <paul_c> I'm a masochist - Hit me.
[16:13:33] <Jymmm> lol
[16:15:45] <Jymmm> I'm not as much of a masochist as I used to be... My Uncles hdd was failing, was gonna upgrade their system. Said screw it pulled a hdd from my desktop, threw it in his and just ghosted the bitch.
[16:17:10] <paul_c> ghosted from a Linux drive ?
[16:17:30] <Jymmm> Nah, but yo can.
[16:17:33] <Jymmm> you
[17:17:08] <Jacky^> hello :)
[17:17:29] <Jacky^> Jymmm: are u there ?
[17:52:32] <Jacky^> hi Imperator_
[17:54:16] <Jacky^> Imperator_: are you working around homebuild servo drivers ?
[17:54:18] <Imperator_> Hi Jacky^
[17:54:48] <Imperator_> nope, but some breakout boards fo the mesa card, to control servos
[17:55:08] <Jacky^> nice
[17:55:15] <Jacky^> i'm interesting on it
[17:55:25] <Jacky^> i'm looking for some schematic
[17:55:43] <Imperator_> what do you wana do ?
[17:55:44] <Jacky^> and , i found a very interesting circuit on an old board
[17:55:58] <Jacky^> it seem to work quite fine
[17:56:14] <Jacky^> i want to drive servos with emc
[17:57:09] <Jacky^> I know, its hard .. but i want to try
[17:57:59] <Jacky^> i'm tryng to 'decrypt' the schematic of the board i'm testing
[17:58:01] <Imperator_> what input doeas the circuit need ?
[17:58:06] <Jacky^> its not simple :\
[17:58:42] <Jacky^> i'd like to drive with emc
[17:58:58] <Jacky^> i'm not sure about the input on this board
[17:59:06] <Jacky^> do you want to take a look ?
[17:59:16] <Imperator_> jep, but what signal exepts the circuit from the controller (emc)
[17:59:19] <Jacky^> right now i uploaded some pics
[17:59:27] <Imperator_> ok
[17:59:33] <Imperator_> let me see
[17:59:52] <Imperator_> which size of servos do you want to use ?
[18:00:01] <Jacky^> small
[18:00:12] <Imperator_> with tacho ?
[18:00:17] <Jacky^> abou 2,5 cm diameter
[18:00:23] <Jacky^> with encoder
[18:00:29] <Jacky^> i think digital encoder..
[18:00:39] <Imperator_> with brushes
[18:00:54] <Jacky^> dc motors
[18:01:19] <Jacky^> ok, heres my gallery:
http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&cat=12775
[18:01:23] <Imperator_> because you can get the Galil Amps realy cheap on ebay
[18:01:32] <Jacky^> there are many photos of the board
[18:02:02] <Imperator_> they need a servo with a tacho, or you use the curent mode, and then emc has to do the velosity loop
[18:02:03] <Jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=146&pos=13
[18:02:15] <Jacky^> click on the image to zoom full size
[18:06:59] <Imperator_> how can you know that it works fine when you don't know which input signal it has ?
[18:07:13] <Imperator_> or needs
[18:09:47] <Jacky^> it run an turn the motors
[18:11:04] <Imperator_> how do you command it
[18:12:23] <Jacky^> from keyboard
[18:12:37] <Jacky^> have u seen the pics ?
[18:32:07] <bosone> hi Imperator_ , are you working for a cpld interface?
[18:32:53] <Imperator_> Jacky^; have seen the pics, but don't know if that makes sense to invest some time !!
[18:33:05] <Imperator_> bosone: its FPGA stuff
[18:33:41] <Imperator_> www.mesanet.com
[18:33:43] <Imperator_> 5I20 FPGA based PCI Anything I/O card
[18:34:06] <Jacky^> ok..
[18:34:11] <bosone> ok, i look ..
[18:34:27] <Imperator_> we are making some breakoutboards for that card to use real servo amps
[18:36:15] <AchiestDragon> well controls wired
http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/cnc.jpg
[18:37:16] <AchiestDragon> just wating for slides for the x axis and 10mm shaft couplers to arrive , then should be running
[18:39:09] <bosone> Imperator_: it's great!! this is the right way!!
[18:39:52] <bosone> i sow somthing similar but "closed" from national instruments
[18:42:11] <bosone> all pc must have one!
[18:44:24] <bosone> think an application that load specific VHDL code for fastest execution
[18:45:44] <bosone> adding on board ram
[18:53:09] <bosone> someone have experiece with DPSS laser?
[19:12:36] <Jacky^> sorry .. i was away..
[19:12:49] <Jacky^> Imperator_: -> Jacky^; have seen the pics, but don't know if that makes
[19:12:50] <Jacky^> sense to invest some time !!
[19:13:12] <Jacky^> would be a great to understand how it work..
[19:14:52] <Jacky^> I mean only the drivers section, of course..
[19:15:02] <Jacky^> :)
[21:07:55] <mrallen> what's the relationship between EMC and EMC2? is EMC still being developed? I'm working on 4.18 that came with my Sherline and I would like to add a few things to the GUI (% complete in auto, etc).
[21:08:29] <mrallen> if they are useful additions, I would like to maximize the chances they get rolled into the builds
[21:08:42] <paul_c> Hi Stewart.
[21:08:54] <mrallen> Hi Paul
[21:09:20] <paul_c> emc2 is derived from EMC (refered to as EMC1)
[21:10:00] <mrallen> are there many differences in the Tk front-end code?
[21:10:17] <paul_c> the version on the BDI disk owes much to EMC1, but the build system from emc2
[21:10:32] <mrallen> not sure i understand
[21:10:40] <ValarQ> me neither
[21:10:46] <ValarQ> what build system?
[21:11:39] <paul_c> When I was approached to update the BDI disk, one of the requirements was an up to date base.
[21:12:04] <paul_c> This meant using a 2.6 kernel amongst other things.
[21:12:40] <paul_c> emc2 is currently unsuitable for mass deployment.
[21:12:57] <paul_c> EMC1 will not (now, or in the future) build on a 2.6 kernel.
[21:13:10] <mrallen> so BDI uses EMC1 and employs the EMC2 build system - make file structure, etc?
[21:13:26] <paul_c> I had already been working on getting emc2 to compile wth 2.6
[21:13:57] <paul_c> so it made sense to use working code from EMC1 with some of the stuff from emc2
[21:14:18] <mrallen> who does the main maintenance/development of EMC1/2? are your changes getting rolled back in?
[21:15:07] <paul_c> The core developers agreed that EMC1 would only receive bug fixes.
[21:16:58] <mrallen> rayh: is that to accomodate an updated API? or other?
[21:17:26] <paul_c> Most of the bug fixes & enhancements from the BDI-4 builds find their way in to the emc2 tree..
[21:19:03] <rayh> One of the changes simply changes the location where it should find the process emcsh that conects it to NML
[21:19:17] <rayh> The other is a first shot at some internationalization.
[21:19:36] <rayh> If you wish to add a percent meter and such, that would be great.
[21:21:11] <mrallen> I started making notes for things I would enhance in the UI. Should I direct this to anyone in particular or start hacking away on the UI? I did a fair bit of Tcl/Tk hacking about 10 years ago. I can probably pick it up again.
[21:21:26] <paul_c> * paul_c points at rayh
[21:23:12] <mrallen> paul_c: going back to the system load issue.. please remind me what's happening there and if there's anything I can do to address it?
[21:24:15] <rayh> Start hacking. Have you got developers status at sf?
[21:24:22] <paul_c> update emc & emc-modules from the mirror - That should fix it.
[21:24:48] <paul_c> You may need to uninstall emc-0.0.0-18 first...
[21:25:24] <mrallen> rayh: yep. mrallen@sf.net
[21:25:43] <mrallen> paul_c: haven't been brave enough to try it yet. don't want to kill my working setup.
[21:26:02] <rayh> Then you are good to go. You could start a branch for your gui work.
[21:26:23] <rayh> or you could simply copy mini.tcl to another named file and go with it.
[21:26:24] <paul_c> rayh: Is mini in the emc2 tree ?
[21:27:11] <rayh> Yes under tcl at the toplevel
[21:27:57] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:28:11] <paul_c> mrallen: You're all set to work in the emc2 tree then.
[21:28:34] <paul_c> bdi-4 is a branch off that.
[21:28:43] <rayh> I've got a few changes to make to the editor as well.
[21:29:42] <mrallen> paul_c: not clear on one thing... I'm using EMC 4.18 on my system. I've got EMC1/2 checked out of CVS (anon). should I copy mini from the EMC2 tree and use in EMC1 or what?
[21:30:15] <paul_c> lemme diff the two...
[21:30:55] <mrallen> * mrallen will be back in 20 minutes
[21:32:29] <paul_c> Apart from the i18n code, just two lines differ.
[21:36:09] <rayh> Paul, is there a way to get the source for 4.25/27 up yet?
[21:36:16] <paul_c> between EMC1 & bdi-4 branch, zero change.
[21:37:25] <paul_c> Hadn't looked at that yet.... Been busy with the NML extensions.
[21:39:58] <rayh> okay. no worries.
[21:41:07] <paul_c> looking at it right now.
[21:41:40] <ValarQ> is HAL something that is developed for EMC2?
[21:46:36] <Jymmm> I wonder if it's worth it at $30 USD
http://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/SunGuard/index.shtml
[21:47:39] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz
[21:47:50] <paul_c> ValarQ: You need to pick on JMK about HAL
[21:48:15] <AchiestDragon> hi robin_sz , just beaten to it also lol
[21:48:24] <Jymmm> and he hasn't been around in a coupel weeks =)
[21:48:28] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: ?
[21:48:41] <AchiestDragon> the hi :)
[21:48:44] <robin_sz> ah
[21:49:03] <Jacky^> robin_sz: du you remember the old board we where talking yesterday ?
[21:49:21] <robin_sz> how could i forget
[21:49:23] <Jacky^> I uploaded some pics:
http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=146
[21:49:24] <AchiestDragon> got the controls finished
[21:49:41] <AchiestDragon> http://www.whipy.demon.co.uk/cnc.jpg
[21:49:54] <Jacky^> click on imaget to get full zoom size 2 times
[21:49:57] <Jacky^> :)
[21:50:27] <ValarQ> paul_c: ok
[21:50:34] <Jacky^> this is the small servo that use:
http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=146&pos=8
[21:52:30] <anna_emc> hi
[21:52:37] <Jacky^> evening anna
[21:52:45] <mrallen> paul_c: how do I preserve my sherline-specific setup if I uninstall 0.0.0-18 in order to get 1.0?
[21:54:50] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: and the new motors too!
[21:54:53] <robin_sz> how are they?
[21:54:54] <AchiestDragon> just wating for slides and 10mm shaft couplers now ,, hopefuly sould be next weeks sometime , the couplers are on back order with farnell
[21:55:25] <AchiestDragon> seem ok , can not stop them
[21:55:36] <robin_sz> better than the old ones?
[21:55:41] <AchiestDragon> yes
[21:55:50] <paul_c> mrallen: Have you altered mill_inch_freq.ini ?
[21:55:54] <AchiestDragon> about the same speed but alot more power
[21:56:11] <mrallen> paul_c: no
[21:56:18] <les> nice neat layout dragon
[21:56:31] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: yeah, and dont worry, when you get a real driver, they will do LOTS of speed and keep that sam power a long wya up the rev range
[21:56:37] <paul_c> emc-1.0-27 will install an updated ini for Sherline then.
[21:57:02] <mrallen> paul_c: it's safe then? nothing hardware-specific they might have shipped?
[21:57:47] <AchiestDragon> the layout is not as neet as i would like , was tought to use solid core wire and have 90deg bends in it ,, realy neet , but not always practical
[21:57:55] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: One question, why mount the drive box on the axis?
[21:58:58] <les> thinner wires?
[21:58:58] <paul_c> mrallen: The BDI-4.xx CD was designed specifically for Sherline.
[21:59:37] <AchiestDragon> its monted on the frame , the x axis will move ( sliding ) seemed a good place to mount it as i need to move the machine arround
[22:00:06] <robin_sz> sure .. but it adds a fair bit of mass to your gantry
[22:00:49] <AchiestDragon> its suported by its own mountings and the gantry that its attached to is fixed
[22:01:02] <mrallen> paul_c: ok... here goes
[22:01:06] <robin_sz> aah ok
[22:01:20] <robin_sz> you went for sliding table in the end?
[22:01:25] <AchiestDragon> yes
[22:02:14] <robin_sz> you know, i really do want you to take me up on my offer of the use of a workshop for a weekend ...
[22:03:03] <AchiestDragon> i moved the x axis runners to the y axis so i get just under 24" on the y , to make up for having less x tavel using sliders
[22:03:12] <robin_sz> right
[22:04:05] <jacky^^> jacky^^ is now known as jack_lab
[22:04:07] <AchiestDragon> managed to remove 5kg from total weight in the process
[22:04:11] <jack_lab> hello :)
[22:04:18] <robin_sz> from you or the machine?
[22:04:40] <AchiestDragon> the machine ,, it currently stands at 40kg
[22:04:45] <robin_sz> coo.
[22:05:51] <robin_sz> what software you going to drive it with ? EMC?
[22:06:05] <AchiestDragon> so by the time its finished will be back to 45kg ish , so movable
[22:06:32] <robin_sz> movelable ... pahh, what are you man or mouse?
[22:07:10] <robin_sz> just put it in the living room, dcalre "and this is where I want it to stay" :)
[22:07:23] <AchiestDragon> lol
[22:07:24] <mrallen> paul_c: i've removed old emc. installing new indicates that 'initrd-tools' and 'libc6-i686' will be removed .. huh?
[22:08:04] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: those drives require 2 signals per channel? in quadrature?
[22:08:12] <robin_sz> or 4 signals?
[22:08:20] <robin_sz> one per pahse?
[22:08:34] <AchiestDragon> my workbench is outside , so need to be able to move it inside and out relativly easaly
[22:08:53] <robin_sz> hey, where did the FETS go off the drive board?
[22:09:20] <AchiestDragon> they are hibrid 8 wire , can be wired unipolar 4 phase or bipolar
[22:09:44] <AchiestDragon> the fets are mounted on heatsinks on the bit of veroboard at the top
[22:09:53] <robin_sz> uh oh ... are those the FETS on the ends of those 12" wire?
[22:09:59] <paul_c> mrallen: That's OK.. libc6 & co will be upgraded.
[22:10:29] <paul_c> mrallen: You'll also want to upgrade locales at the same time.
[22:10:43] <mrallen> paul_c: i'll do a full 'apt-get upgrade'
[22:11:02] <robin_sz> AchiestDragon: generally speaking, putting high power fets on the ends of 12" long wires makes them oscillate ...
[22:11:12] <paul_c> mrallen: NO
[22:11:22] <mrallen> paul_c: once i've got this updated, please advise the best way to synchronize work in /usr/local/emc with cvs
[22:11:33] <mrallen> paul_c: ok, no full upgrade. still waiting for emc to install.
[22:11:39] <paul_c> Don't do a full upgrade
[22:12:00] <AchiestDragon> the resistance in on of the fets requres a 10w disipation per fet at full load , as to wire lenth yes going to screen the wires should cure that , but thay seem to work ok as is
[22:12:27] <robin_sz> yeah, you might be OK because they are either on or off ... never biased half on ...
[22:13:02] <robin_sz> but drop a small C, 100pf or so between gate and gnd, right on the fet to be sure
[22:13:12] <AchiestDragon> cross over seems to be more of a problem , but moving the wires apart cured that , screaning them should fix it
[22:13:35] <robin_sz> mmm ...
[22:13:53] <mrallen> paul_c: apt says sherlinemill.tbl has been modified since installation. do I keep current or upgrade?
[22:14:08] <paul_c> That's just the tool table
[22:14:58] <AchiestDragon> in the long term im going to replace the drivers , but for the time it will be ok to prove the machine
[22:15:04] <robin_sz> yep
[22:15:05] <paul_c> That is one file that should be changed to suit what ever tooling you use.
[22:15:12] <mrallen> paul_c: how do I upgade a specific package like 'locales'
[22:15:26] <paul_c> apt-get install locales
[22:15:44] <mrallen> paul_c: says it's the latest version
[22:15:54] <paul_c> OK.
[22:16:17] <paul_c> Are you on the command line ?
[22:20:10] <mrallen> paul_c: rebooted. emc will not run now. shared memory problems.
[22:21:43] <paul_c> Any chance of using ssh to take a look ?
[22:22:43] <mrallen> paul_c: can't.. behind NAT firewall
[22:23:31] <paul_c> 'k... Can you cut'n'paste some of the errors ?
[22:23:58] <mrallen> hold on
[22:27:45] <CIA-8> 03paul_c 07bdi-4_27 * 10emc2/src/ (122 files in 10 dirs): Update with the BDI-4.2x bug fixes.
[22:28:17] <CIA-8> 03paul_c 07bdi-4_27 * 10emc2/src/ (37 files in 3 dirs): Update with the BDI-4.2x bug fixes.
[22:28:27] <CIA-8> 03paul_c 07bdi-4_27 * 10emc2/src/libnml/ (44 files in 4 dirs): Update with the BDI-4.2x bug fixes.
[22:28:35] <CIA-8> 03paul_c 07bdi-4_27 * 10emc2/src/ (29 files in 5 dirs): Update with the BDI-4.2x bug fixes.
[22:29:32] <anna_emc> night
[22:52:11] <Imperator_> night
[23:15:14] <robin_z> OK, quick 'doze question ...
[23:15:19] <robin_z> adding a network printer
[23:15:41] <robin_z> I've added a "port" with the right IP address and whatever,
[23:16:08] <robin_z> HTF do I add a new printer?
[23:19:54] <jack_lab> robin from Linux ?
[23:21:28] <jack_lab> from doze you just need to scan the net and add the printer found
[23:21:56] <robin_z> nah from doze .. XP .. its OK I done it
[23:22:11] <jack_lab> then ?
[23:22:13] <robin_z> network printers are local printers it seems ...
[23:22:37] <robin_z> so when you wna t to add a netwrok printer, you have to select "add printer" and then "add local printer"
[23:22:59] <robin_z> silly bill gates .. can't even get printing right
[23:23:02] <jack_lab> i usually scan the net..
[23:23:15] <robin_z> I did that ...
[23:23:29] <robin_z> but that only finds other local printers attached to other windows machines
[23:23:40] <robin_z> this is a network printer
[23:23:48] <jack_lab> i know..
[23:24:11] <jack_lab> its not on local lan ?
[23:24:32] <robin_z> scanning the net only finds shared printers on other boxes, not lan printers
[23:25:02] <jack_lab> is it on some local hub or switch ?
[23:25:07] <robin_z> of course
[23:25:32] <jack_lab> you probably are scanning the only your workgroup
[23:25:51] <robin_z> well ... the printer isnt in any workgroup
[23:26:10] <jack_lab> oh ..
[23:26:22] <robin_z> workgroups is a windows thing
[23:26:53] <jack_lab> i dont know of netprinter without these setting ..
[23:27:01] <jack_lab> i worked a lot with a xerox
[23:27:10] <robin_z> laserjet with jetDirect card?
[23:27:11] <jack_lab> it has also web server inside
[23:27:35] <robin_z> anyway .. I did it ..
[23:27:44] <robin_z> create a new local port
[23:27:57] <jack_lab> i think you can just add a new local printer
[23:28:02] <robin_z> IP_192.168.1.50 (or wherever your printer is)
[23:28:06] <jack_lab> then try to canghe the port
[23:28:10] <robin_z> then add a local printer, on that port
[23:28:24] <jack_lab> in //192.168.1.50
[23:28:41] <robin_z> seems fucking silly to add a local printer for a network printer .. but it worked anyway
[23:28:59] <jack_lab> :)
[23:29:07] <robin_z> silly bill gates
[23:29:11] <jack_lab> I know ..
[23:29:15] <jack_lab> also Linux
[23:29:29] <jack_lab> i love linux because strange things are happening
[23:29:32] <jack_lab> :))
[23:29:40] <robin_z> works fine from linux, just set the IP in the printconf tool
[23:30:28] <jack_lab> you know. latest ver. of windoze are pretty strange
[23:30:45] <jack_lab> about protocols, security, share files, etc..
[23:30:57] <jack_lab> passwd encryption..
[23:31:02] <jack_lab> :D
[23:31:38] <jack_lab> it suppose the user should be stupid..
[23:31:47] <robin_z> shrug
[23:32:16] <robin_z> windows is OK, but its only really for toy office applications
[23:32:56] <jack_lab> the power of windos is in other apps
[23:33:01] <jack_lab> like autocad ..
[23:33:10] <robin_z> sadly, I think my next machine I sell will be with the windows GUI for control
[23:33:37] <robin_z> linux is too hard for most users, at least the thick ones I have to talk to
[23:33:53] <robin_z> they can *just about* use windows ...
[23:33:55] <robin_z> almost.
[23:33:59] <jack_lab> i'm studing on Linux since 1998 ..
[23:34:06] <jack_lab> i'm already a newbie
[23:34:14] <jack_lab> thats all ..
[23:34:41] <jack_lab> a 'normal user' need at least 10 years
[23:34:54] <jack_lab> to learn how to recompile the kernel
[23:35:09] <jack_lab> its not for all ..
[23:35:14] <robin_z> well, when selling a commercial product, needing Linux is simply a non-starter at the moment
[23:35:19] <robin_z> kills your sales potential
[23:35:55] <robin_z> unless you sell the whole system pre-configured etc, and then you have to support it etc .. full time job
[23:36:15] <robin_z> better I think to sell with just a simlpe Windows non-realtime GUI
[23:36:23] <robin_z> but, thats just for my application
[23:36:49] <robin_z> for hobbyists, wnating to play with motion control .. the answer is of course different
[23:37:14] <jack_lab> i started laern something on linux when i done windows ..
[23:37:25] <jack_lab> i was having 2 partition on my hd
[23:37:40] <jack_lab> i was botting linux 1 time at year ..
[23:38:08] <jack_lab> when i removed fat partition, i started learn
[23:38:36] <jack_lab> now, i just use vmwave with win2k on linux for some cad apps
[23:38:57] <jack_lab> vmware*
[23:41:57] <robin_sz> I just have 2 linux boxes here .. 1 for the wife to run an accounting package for the business
[23:42:13] <robin_sz> the other for my G200X developemtn etc
[23:42:25] <robin_sz> everything else is Linux .. debian to be precise
[23:42:34] <jack_lab> great
[23:42:46] <robin_sz> the servers in London and Lausanne are all debian too
[23:42:53] <robin_sz> , oh, 1 redhat left
[23:43:22] <robin_sz> and a couple of XP boxes at the factory
[23:43:26] <robin_sz> for Autocad etc
[23:44:03] <jack_lab> i just know ..
[23:44:33] <jack_lab> my friend are formatting the HD one time every 7-8 mounths
[23:44:42] <jack_lab> with xp
[23:44:48] <robin_sz> wow ..
[23:44:52] <robin_sz> I found it rock solid
[23:45:22] <robin_sz> no problems at all with reliability/stability
[23:45:29] <jack_lab> dialer,virus,worm.banner and other..
[23:45:40] <robin_sz> I dont think I can remember an XP box crashing ...
[23:45:53] <jack_lab> after 8-9 mouths is pratically impossible to surf the net
[23:46:20] <jack_lab> i forget latest time i formatted..
[23:46:26] <jack_lab> maybe in the 2001
[23:46:53] <jack_lab> i cant remember what an antivirus is :)
[23:47:33] <jack_lab> i'm using 7 desktop switching, and home directory in a separate partition..
[23:53:09] <robin_sz> oops, time to buy a new toner I think
[23:53:47] <robin_sz> or refil it?
[23:54:15] <jack_lab> refil could be ok..
[23:54:41] <jack_lab> i've a small samsung 1520 laser, it work fine with refil
[23:57:09] <robin_sz> hmm ... maybe a new one from ebay?
[23:58:19] <jack_lab> how much the cost ?
[23:59:47] <Jymmm> les : You awake over there or did your tractor fall on top of you on the 9th hole?
