#emc | Logs for 2005-09-10

[00:05:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz orders some more memory ... poxy 'doze struggles with 256mb :(
[00:29:00] <bosone> http://www.webalice.it/bosone77/
[00:30:18] <Jacky^> bosone: cool , congrats
[00:30:30] <Jacky^> you used an old copier :D
[00:31:10] <Jacky^> driver*
[00:31:28] <Jacky^> nice
[00:31:47] <bosone> do you have some photo of your machine now?
[00:31:55] <Jacky^> sure..
[00:32:55] <Jacky^> here's my room some day ago ..http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/album?.dir=ea2b&.src=ph
[00:33:16] <Jacky^> my machine it's a simple homebuilt cnc
[00:34:11] <robin_sz> quite clean ...
[00:34:31] <robin_sz> I can see the floor!
[00:34:37] <Jacky^> bosone: my cnc look like this: http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
[00:34:52] <Jacky^> the original plan i mean..
[00:35:04] <Jacky^> but i'm just playng around
[00:35:32] <Jacky^> waiting to get some extra money, to start building a real machine :P
[00:35:48] <robin_sz> not bad
[00:36:12] <robin_sz> drawer runners?
[00:37:46] <les> hi guys
[00:37:51] <bosone> yes i set 50 mm/s but i think it go at 30mm/s, i dont know wy
[00:38:20] <Jacky^> hi les :)
[00:38:32] <les> hmmm quick change or pallets....
[00:38:45] <les> got more quotes
[00:39:09] <les> on spindles
[00:40:10] <les> If I do 24 tool changes a day currently and quadruple the cutting speed
[00:40:20] <les> I have a problem!
[00:40:21] <bosone> in the gui the max axis speed is 3000, and isn't units! no spinde, laser
[00:41:12] <Jymmm> pallets?
[00:41:47] <les> replacable work holders with arrayed parts
[00:42:06] <les> put on tool one...do 10 pallets
[00:42:12] <les> then tool 2
[00:42:15] <Jymmm> ok, must not be the forklift kinda than
[00:42:36] <les> and so on rather than doing 6 changes for each table full
[00:42:50] <les> kinda like replacable tables...
[00:42:59] <Jymmm> ah
[00:43:26] <les> otherwise I could be doing 100+ tool changes a day
[00:43:32] <les> not good
[00:43:51] <Jymmm> make a tool changer?
[00:44:02] <les> that's like 3 hours of just changing tools
[00:44:27] <les> have to have an ATC spindle
[00:44:52] <les> for 5 hp an ER 25 manual spindle is about 1000 bucks
[00:45:01] <les> ATC is 5000
[00:45:36] <Jymmm> maybe you design one
[00:45:57] <les> heh...design three phase motors...
[00:46:13] <Jymmm> just make sure it works with my bosch router
[00:46:28] <Jymmm> tool vhanger silly
[00:46:36] <Jymmm> changer
[00:47:02] <les> All these spindles are 2 and 4 pole 3 phase induction motors
[00:47:17] <Jymmm> water
[00:47:21] <les> they just run at 300 or 400 hz instead of 60
[00:47:50] <les> water? thirsty?
[00:48:04] <les> I have a can of 95% water right here
[00:48:05] <Jymmm> water powered spindle
[00:48:20] <les> hrmmm....
[00:49:16] <les> 5 kw water stream....
[00:49:24] <Jymmm> or steam
[00:50:01] <les> wait the tractor hydraulic pump makes about 20 kW or so
[00:50:09] <les> heh
[00:50:29] <Jymmm> there ya go.... tractorCNC
[00:50:34] <les> heh
[00:51:02] <les> air turbines are used on some pcb machines
[00:51:30] <les> but turbines have bad torque curves for tradition edge tools
[00:51:41] <les> traditional
[00:51:42] <Jymmm> bet they break often too
[00:51:56] <les> yeah
[00:52:05] <les> so....pallets
[00:52:20] <les> that would get the job done
[00:53:18] <Jymmm> ok, well hurry up and get that donw as I need you to design two things, and build one of them.
[00:53:28] <les> They would have to be removed and atteched with a few thousandths repeatability
[00:53:36] <les> ha
[00:53:58] <les> doing silly rocket science today
[00:54:02] <les> oops phone
[00:54:26] <Jymmm> These are easy for you. one being a litl more difficult than the other.
[01:35:12] <Jacky^> bed time..
[01:35:16] <Jacky^> G night
[01:37:35] <les> long phone call
[01:38:49] <bosone> good night
[01:40:27] <les> Now, jymmm what do you need?
[01:41:00] <les> I'll put you on the queue
[01:41:21] <anna_emc> good night
[01:41:25] <anna_emc> bye
[01:41:33] <les> good night
[01:41:35] <anna_emc> :-)
[01:43:36] <gezr> hmm
[01:43:37] <gezr> howdy folks
[01:44:06] <les> hi gezr
[01:46:23] <gezr> was late on the call to that supplier to get a quote on that sb
[01:46:52] <les> sb?
[01:47:04] <gezr> didnt I tellyou about it the other night?
[01:47:11] <gezr> maybe last night or the one before?
[01:47:25] <les> my memory must be going
[01:47:43] <gezr> http://www.surplusrecord.com/cgi-bin/ad_spec.pl?402984|P
[01:47:51] <gezr> thats the photo of it
[01:48:04] <gezr> http://www.surplusrecord.com/cgi-bin/ad_spec.pl?402984
[01:48:08] <gezr> thats the specs
[01:48:29] <les> oh now I remember
[01:48:53] <les> I was getting quotes on electrospindles today
[01:49:00] <gezr> what do you think they may ask me to spend for it?
[01:49:15] <gezr> your still looking for a spindle design?
[01:49:23] <gezr> or new spindle that is?
[01:49:39] <les> well I must up the cnc spindle horsepower
[01:49:58] <les> a bunch
[01:50:10] <gezr> who have you talked to so far?
[01:50:49] <les> There was one on ebay...but I didn't really like the tone of the seller...he would not tell me enough about it
[01:51:03] <gezr> thats probably a good decision you made
[01:51:11] <les> and I have quotes from HSD
[01:51:19] <gezr> are you going to go direct drive or a gear housing?
[01:51:23] <les> and Eckstrom Carlson
[01:51:35] <les> direct drive
[01:51:41] <les> about 5 kW
[01:51:45] <gezr> 20krpm?
[01:51:52] <les> 24
[01:51:55] <gezr> uber
[01:51:56] <les> max
[01:52:02] <gezr> thats what 7.5hp or so?
[01:52:07] <les> yeah
[01:52:11] <gezr> wow
[01:52:20] <gezr> did you settle on a spindle design?
[01:52:32] <gezr> or still waiting on me to draw you up one?
[01:52:43] <les> Well ATC is very expensive
[01:52:46] <gezr> hint hint hint :)
[01:52:52] <les> ER collet is cheap
[01:52:56] <les> ha
[01:53:22] <les> about 1500 for an ER spindle
[01:53:24] <gezr> you already know I can do er faster then er its self
[01:53:42] <les> About $5000 for an ISO 30 ATC spindle
[01:54:00] <gezr> im talking sub 1500 for a quick change spindle
[01:54:05] <gezr> with full bearings
[01:54:18] <les> I am thinking of staying with manual but palletizing the work
[01:54:22] <gezr> tooling may be a bit high at first but same with all stuff
[01:54:25] <les> so fewer tool changes
[01:54:44] <les> I could be looking at 100+ tool changes a day otherwise
[01:55:06] <les> that's 3 hrs!!!
[01:55:12] <gezr> true
[01:55:33] <gezr> I cant do atc much better then a pre made spindle assembly with a changer on it
[01:55:48] <gezr> but I can do tool changing by hand faster
[01:56:09] <gezr> that simple single allen wrench tool/spindle design Ive been mulling would be very fast
[01:56:19] <les> I wonder if there is a trick to popping on and off ER stuff fast
[01:56:24] <gezr> there is
[01:56:48] <gezr> would you like me to show you?
[01:56:53] <les> sure
[01:58:06] <les> I have seen some single allen systems
[01:58:20] <les> gotta be well balanced for 24krpm
[02:00:12] <gezr> yeah, I think they are, cant find the right link for you
[02:00:28] <les> was it Komet?
[02:00:37] <gezr> no
[02:00:40] <gezr> bigkaiser
[02:00:48] <gezr> http://www.bigkaiser.com/
[02:00:56] <les> looking
[02:02:06] <gezr> I cant find the proper link that describes the tool holder mechanisms, that in case, have the er collet stuff built into them
[02:03:29] <les> I can't find it either
[02:04:44] <les> what in the world makes the ATC electrospindles so expensive?
[02:05:01] <gezr> the fact they work
[02:05:07] <les> heh
[02:05:44] <gezr> you know I cant find the tool bodies on the site
[02:05:52] <les> yeah
[02:06:30] <les> well let's see....$3500 more for ATC.....100 tool changes a day...
[02:06:42] <les> might turn into a no brainer huh
[02:07:27] <gezr> hey, are you mainly using the same shank tooling?
[02:07:44] <les> yeah....all 0.5 inch
[02:07:48] <les> everything
[02:07:54] <gezr> well, I guess shrink fit tool changer would be funky
[02:08:04] <les> heh
[02:08:35] <les> The atc units I was quoted are all iso 30
[02:08:56] <les> a complicating issue is that emc can't do ATC
[02:08:57] <les> yet
[02:09:10] <gezr> yeah, I think I may have somethign for you just a moment more
[02:09:15] <les> k
[02:09:51] <gezr> okay, on the bigkaiser page, click get litature at the bottom
[02:10:01] <les> ok
[02:10:03] <gezr> its a blue box
[02:10:10] <gezr> then when the next page loads
[02:10:28] <gezr> youll see, kab/kad catalog click picturte
[02:11:03] <les> let me fill out the form
[02:11:08] <gezr> no
[02:11:12] <les> ?
[02:11:13] <gezr> well, they will send you the catalog
[02:11:32] <gezr> but if you click the picture up near the top, looks like a small picture, with lots of small pictures click that
[02:11:44] <les> ok
[02:12:15] <gezr> then once the pdf opens, click shanks,
[02:12:28] <gezr> http://www.bigkaiser.com/KPT_PDFs/PG8_19.pdf
[02:12:31] <gezr> tghere we go
[02:12:45] <gezr> a real link finally, on that page, you will see the straight shank master holders
[02:13:28] <gezr> then you can get the er things that go into those, and use them to hold your tools, and then single allen wrench to unlock, and remove a tool, and then insert in a new tool
[02:14:29] <gezr> youll get the idea, if you ask them to send you a catalogue youll really see what im talking about
[02:15:08] <les> I will
[02:15:34] <les> course one could even make em
[02:16:01] <gezr> do you see what Im talking about though?
[02:16:56] <les> reminds me....the old index vertical mill is B&S #9.....need a bs9 to jacobs 2 arbor...can't find one anywhere
[02:17:29] <les> will have to make that
[02:17:31] <les> but
[02:17:44] <les> no taper attachment on the lathe
[02:17:55] <gezr> hmm
[02:18:02] <gezr> you can make one :)
[02:18:09] <les> yeah
[02:18:26] <gezr> hehe, thats funny, make a tapper attachment to make a taper
[02:18:51] <gezr> you know, you dont need to make it full taper
[02:19:00] <les> might be able to eek it out with compound...
[02:19:05] <gezr> in fact, unless everything is perfect you want to break it up
[02:19:22] <les> bs9 is too much for offseting the tsailstock
[02:19:23] <gezr> 2 bearing surfaces, is as good as a full taper
[02:19:33] <les> yup
[02:19:35] <gezr> yeah I know, but you can cut it in 2 sections
[02:19:51] <gezr> make 2 1.5" long segments to fit into the b&s taper
[02:20:06] <les> that would be real fun setting the compound to a few seconds of arc
[02:20:23] <gezr> that way you can do it between centers, and make adjustments to the taper, and check fit as you go
[02:20:37] <les> oh I have about 4 inches of compound travel
[02:20:50] <gezr> oh crap thats more then enough
[02:20:58] <les> perhaps 5
[02:21:05] <gezr> just start higher up on the taper
[02:21:45] <les> ha that will be some sensitive setting of the compond...but I have done it before
[02:22:34] <les> tapping it lightly to move a few tenths
[02:22:35] <gezr> and to set your compound, first, set a bar between centers, and turn it so that its true and shizzle, then place sinbar on compound, gage block to taper, lock it down, put proper part between centers, turn to fit
[02:23:05] <les> yeah
[02:23:17] <les> sounds like a plan
[02:23:30] <gezr> thats as close as you probably need to be, b&s is much larger taper then morse right?
[02:23:34] <gezr> I cant remember
[02:23:44] <gezr> morse is 5/8/foot give or take
[02:23:45] <les> no it is less
[02:23:54] <les> it is a more locking taper
[02:24:04] <gezr> ah, thats right
[02:24:32] <les> forgot the value
[02:24:43] <les> 1/2 per foot I think
[02:24:47] <gezr> 9/16ths maybe or there about
[02:25:04] <gezr> I dont have my handbook handy so I cant say
[02:25:04] <les> let me check
[02:26:23] <gezr> 1/2 cept 10
[02:26:46] <gezr> #10 is .5161/foot
[02:27:01] <les> k
[02:27:25] <gezr> #9 is exactly .50085/foot
[02:27:45] <les> 9 then is .9001 to 1.06705 over 4 in
[02:27:50] <gezr> dia at small end .9001
[02:28:20] <gezr> heh, yeah
[02:29:05] <les> make the arbor out of prehard.....1144s or something...have plenty of that around
[02:29:18] <les> "stressproof"
[02:29:19] <gezr> 4340
[02:29:32] <gezr> I dont like stressproof for mating tooling
[02:29:37] <gezr> it will compress
[02:29:41] <les> how come?
[02:29:49] <gezr> it can compress in the taper
[02:29:55] <les> hmm
[02:30:23] <les> what too soft?
[02:30:39] <gezr> yeah, its stressproff, but its not hard
[02:30:50] <les> rc26 I think
[02:30:54] <gezr> see
[02:31:14] <les> well MSC has plenty of prehard 4130
[02:31:16] <gezr> base 4140 thats been treated is 32 or so
[02:31:20] <les> rc35 or so
[02:31:28] <gezr> you can get it much higher
[02:31:33] <les> sure
[02:31:34] <gezr> and its not so bad to cut with carbide
[02:31:48] <les> can austemper to 55 or so
[02:31:58] <gezr> and its not too brittle, it can be thread rolled, at rc36
[02:32:11] <les> yeah
[02:32:20] <gezr> but it will be elastic in the taper, so that it doenst want to become a permanate fixture
[02:32:21] <les> my ballscrews are made of it
[02:32:48] <gezr> maybe a little anti seze would really help, but anything softer is goind to conform to fit, forever
[02:32:56] <les> well 4140
[02:32:59] <les> close
[02:33:33] <les> those are martensitic....case hardened to 55-62
[02:33:55] <les> pretty hard for 0,4 carbon
[02:34:29] <les> but of course might have added carbon at the surface
[02:34:45] <les> actually they do
[02:35:13] <les> can't get a hypoeutectoid steel to rc62!
[02:35:31] <gezr> that word has exceded my vocabulary
[02:35:46] <gezr> hypo-you-tek-toid?
[02:35:52] <les> we'll fix that
[02:36:22] <les> hypoeutectoid= steel with less than 0,8% carbon
[02:36:57] <les> above the 0,8% point carbide nodules precipitate out
[02:37:04] <gezr> teel with less than eutectoid percentage of carbon. (See Eutectoid Steel)
[02:37:05] <les> below they don't
[02:37:48] <les> the carbide is good for wear resistance, so tool steels are above 0,8 usually
[02:38:57] <gezr> ah , neat
[02:39:00] <les> at the eutectoid point austenitic steel can occur at the lowest temperature
[02:39:34] <les> austenite is a different structure that occurs when steel is very hot
[02:39:37] <les> usually
[02:39:53] <les> some is retained at low temps though
[02:40:13] <les> cryogenic treating gets rid of it
[02:42:33] <les> so...now you know!
[02:43:15] <les> BTW above 0.8% steels are called hypereutectoid
[02:43:21] <les> hypo and hyper
[02:44:01] <gezr> thanks les, very interesting
[02:44:30] <les> I took a good bit of mettalurgy in school. I liked it.
[02:46:03] <les> long time ago.
[02:46:59] <gezr> heh
[02:48:16] <gezr> you think that mill is going to be a lot of money?
[02:48:39] <les> well it is painted up and pretty
[02:49:06] <les> if it's a dealer...yeah
[02:49:14] <gezr> if it was a paint to cover bad, I would think it would be single color
[02:49:27] <gezr> why would a dealer want to sit on something like that?
[02:49:35] <les> on the surplus/auction market horizontals are scrap iron
[02:49:48] <les> because we don't get to make things anymore
[02:50:01] <gezr> why would a dealer expect top dolar for one?
[02:50:16] <les> A machinery dealer will sit on inventory for 20 years!!
[02:50:27] <gezr> if I ask, and they tell me 15k, and I shoot a cash offer of 7.5k back, you think they would be offended?
[02:50:33] <les> waiting to get his price
[02:50:49] <les> nah
[02:50:52] <gezr> yeah, I guess I would have to catch him hungry
[02:51:15] <gezr> but if im going to pay that much for a machine im going to go and check it out first
[02:51:37] <les> remember...we sent out our line of B&S #5 in good working order for $250 each
[02:51:39] <gezr> I can get a brand new bridgeport(tm,c,all that stuff) for the same amount
[02:52:00] <gezr> and for 15k a bp with fanuc cnc 3d on it
[02:52:26] <gezr> yeah, no way will they refuse a reasonable offer
[02:52:27] <les> The horizontals were production machines...Bridgeports are not
[02:52:50] <gezr> im not a production environment
[02:53:04] <gezr> well, if I had that thing, I could build my own cnc mini mill line
[02:53:14] <gezr> and lathe line, its frigen huge
[02:53:33] <les> a vertical is more versitile...but very very slow
[02:53:49] <les> fine for me...I just do R&D
[02:53:50] <gezr> that thing has the vertical spindle
[02:53:57] <les> oh yeah
[02:53:59] <gezr> 10x50 table
[02:54:08] <gezr> rapid travels all axis
[02:54:35] <les> ever consider a big Gorton vertical?
[02:54:38] <gezr> I could set up an arbor with cutters, to machine a full 36" or longer lathe bed in one pass
[02:54:44] <les> built like a tank
[02:54:49] <gezr> too big for garrage
[02:55:00] <les> they are high
[02:55:15] <gezr> here is my take
[02:57:23] <gezr> I want to make small machines that I can use and be happy with, small, yet have the ability to act like big machines
[02:58:16] <les> well as you may know we have been toying around with making machine tools
[02:58:29] <gezr> not really
[02:58:30] <les> already do...but custom ones
[02:58:37] <gezr> you, you mean?
[02:58:37] <les> they are very $$$
[02:58:48] <les> yeah me
[02:59:21] <gezr> yeah, im not so much in the wanting to reall sell, but to mainly fit my needs
[02:59:41] <gezr> but then again, if I get a big mill, then ofcourse a big lathe, why would I need small stuff?
[02:59:47] <Jymmm> les I can be your west coast operations =)
[02:59:55] <les> heh
[03:00:08] <gezr> I cant justify to myself, buying a sherline mill, im sorry
[03:00:30] <Jymmm> les What kind of travel expensies and gas card do I get?
[03:00:45] <gezr> or any of the other mini mills, harbor fright, grizzly, all the likes of the micro crap
[03:01:07] <gezr> I do think sherline is above the microcrap
[03:01:24] <les> One of my machinists at ITW retired, and has a horizontal, two, BP, a BIG 15x60 colchester, grinder, and lots of tooling in a basement
[03:01:26] <gezr> but it would not suit my needs
[03:01:27] <Jymmm> les : BTW... I was semi serious about the two designs, and one make.
[03:01:42] <les> all eyes.
[03:02:52] <les> BTW my retired machinist gets all the $50/hr work he wants in that basement.
[03:02:59] <les> cash money
[03:03:23] <Jymmm> les: one of these designs is electronics
[03:03:24] <gezr> he has the contacts as well, I know jack, and his friend squat
[03:03:27] <les> not bad huh
[03:04:46] <les> having contacts is a good thing
[03:05:03] <Jymmm> les So, when can you have it done by? two hours long enough?
[03:05:17] <les> oh, sure.
[03:05:33] <Jymmm> les ok, then ship it to me monday morning
[03:05:46] <les> And I spent the day trying to translate rocket science into law dog talk...
[03:06:02] <Jymmm> WooF!
[03:06:02] <les> patent crap.
[03:06:16] <Jymmm> les oh this is easy for you
[03:06:27] <Jymmm> just a battery charger
[03:06:39] <les> The more patents I get, the more I think they are useless
[03:06:53] <les> battery charger?
[03:06:58] <Jymmm> les yep
[03:07:42] <les> ok , tell me more.
[03:07:53] <Jymmm> hook, line, and sinker!!!
[03:08:22] <les> you don't know my fee structure do you? haha
[03:08:32] <les> pro buono right now though.
[03:08:55] <les> because otherwise I would be watching the boob tube anyway
[03:08:56] <Jymmm> PWM battery charger for gelcells and/or deep cycle ALSO capable of providing 13.8VDC @ ~40A
[03:09:05] <Jymmm> AND....
[03:09:33] <Jymmm> can use be charged using a solar panel (24VDC@1Am full sun)
[03:09:47] <Jymmm> or 120VAC
[03:09:58] <Jymmm> or 13.8VDC
[03:09:58] <les> ok
[03:10:13] <les> you are taslking expensive you know....
[03:10:18] <les> talking
[03:10:39] <Jymmm> in parts or the blood sucking designer?
[03:10:46] <les> both.
[03:10:48] <les> hahah
[03:10:48] <Jymmm> lol
[03:10:59] <gezr> that does sound expensive, how much are generators?
[03:11:10] <Jymmm> ok, gimme a number for the blood sucking designer at leat?
[03:11:15] <Jymmm> least
[03:11:26] <Jymmm> I have the solar panel
[03:11:31] <les> some power management ics and a big ass fet bridge
[03:11:52] <Jymmm> les Um, did I forget to say it has to be energy efficiant?
[03:12:05] <les> 90%+
[03:12:19] <gezr> only 10% loss to heat?
[03:12:21] <Jymmm> if thats the best I cna do.
[03:12:22] <les> a few hundred pleasure units for parts
[03:12:25] <gezr> and other goodies
[03:13:08] <les> the 40 amps is the $$ part
[03:13:16] <Jymmm> can we make the input from 12 - 32VDC ?
[03:13:34] <Jymmm> what about 20A, better?
[03:13:44] <les> some
[03:14:09] <les> I now will guess the application
[03:14:13] <les> let's see
[03:14:17] <les> solar...
[03:14:33] <les> 12v car battery charging voltage...
[03:14:40] <les> gel cells too...
[03:15:01] <les> deep cycle...
[03:15:38] <les> solar powered cnc router.
[03:15:50] <Jymmm> BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ try again!
[03:15:55] <les> ahhh
[03:15:58] <les> hmmm
[03:16:15] <gezr> its a battery charger, and a power source for a drive?
[03:16:24] <Jymmm> want a hint?
[03:16:38] <les> yeah
[03:16:39] <gezr> 40amps is too little to be a jumper circuit, yet more then enough to drive a motor
[03:16:51] <Jymmm> 4+
[03:17:06] <Jymmm> thats your hint
[03:17:08] <gezr> using a starter motor as a spindle
[03:17:10] <Jymmm> want another?
[03:17:20] <les> yeah
[03:17:26] <Jymmm> CQ CQ CQ DX
[03:17:35] <les> oh
[03:17:39] <paul_c> is it safe ?
[03:17:52] <Jymmm> paul_c no! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!
[03:17:53] <les> amateur radio solar powered
[03:18:11] <les> not safe at all paul
[03:18:21] <les> why aren't you in bed????
[03:18:24] <Jymmm> les Yeah, emergency power for portable station during AREA/RACES field days or disaster.
[03:19:29] <les> a 500 w solar panel ain't cheap
[03:19:55] <Jymmm> well, I have a 24W one. so that'll have to do.
[03:20:07] <Jymmm> @$VDC @ 1A full sun
[03:20:09] <Jymmm> 24
[03:20:33] <Jymmm> solar --> gelcell, 110/13.8 ---> deep cycle
[03:20:49] <les> I have been lloking at them. I need to make a solar wood drying kiln. It is away from power and needs fans.
[03:21:00] <les> looking
[03:22:08] <Jymmm> the one I have folds up to about 6"x4"x4"
[03:22:33] <Jymmm> I just dont have a charging board for it.
[03:22:49] <les> There are all manner of PWM windmill charging around...pick up a copy of mother earth news
[03:22:50] <Jymmm> well, I sorta do, but I want to build a hell of a better one.
[03:24:07] <les> Any lead acid cell is a longevity issue...even deep cycle
[03:24:36] <Jymmm> yeah, but somethign is better than nothing at all.
[03:25:18] <les> reminds me....I need to get a generator for the ice storms to come later
[03:25:35] <les> often out of power for days
[03:25:47] <Jymmm> diesel
[03:26:18] <les> I am kinda fascinated with diesel since I got my tractor
[03:26:34] <Jymmm> http://www.interlog.com/~dgv/solar_prods.htm
[03:26:43] <les> looking
[03:26:46] <Jymmm> diesel engines can run DAYS non-stop
[03:27:23] <Jymmm> I used to work dispatch at a towing company, the starter went out on the big rig tow truck, so they left it running for 11 days.
[03:27:34] <Jymmm> till the new one came in.
[03:29:16] <les> I have 30 hp pto and hydraulics to do stuff on the tractor
[03:29:31] <les> could just buy a pto generator
[03:29:51] <les> but I don't need 30 hp
[03:29:53] <Jymmm> see, that link doesn't accept any grid power, ONLY PV.
[03:30:34] <les> Hooking to grid is good...theyt have to buy the power you make
[03:31:17] <Jymmm> Well, I'm talking only a couple batterys here. but the idea is to have it whore itself with any power source that's available at the time.
[03:31:24] <les> at retail!
[03:31:47] <Jymmm> 120VAC/13.8VDC/PV
[03:32:07] <Jymmm> stepper connected to a bicycle =)
[03:33:18] <les> the only energy thing I am thinking about is natural gas heating...it was $1000/mo in jan and feb last ye...imagine this year
[03:33:36] <Jymmm> and suppose to go up by 70%
[03:33:43] <Jymmm> this year
[03:33:54] <les> I have been stacking up the wood
[03:34:05] <les> have lots of wood
[03:34:08] <Jymmm> $1000/mo ?! what are you running a hot tube?
[03:34:10] <Jymmm> tub
[03:34:32] <Jymmm> and inviting all the moonshiners daughter in?!
[03:34:42] <les> it's cold here, and this is an old leaky farm houde
[03:34:50] <les> house
[03:34:58] <les> houde?
[03:35:00] <les> oh.
[03:35:07] <les> s is next to d.
[03:35:28] <Jymmm> ever hear of insulation and foam sealant
[03:35:53] <les> got walls and ceiling well insulated. Need to do floor.
[03:36:10] <les> can't get under there easily
[03:36:19] <Jymmm> ah
[03:36:29] <Jymmm> foam
[03:36:32] <les> no basement
[03:37:13] <Jymmm> drill a hole, squirt in foam. done.
[03:37:19] <les> it was not fully underpinned
[03:39:06] <Jymmm> but $1000/mo in heating alone can't be lost THAT much thru the floor (as heat rises) can it?
[03:39:52] <Jymmm> I mean maybe $300, but $1000?! You dont have a 10K sqft house do you?
[03:40:24] <les_away> bleh
[03:42:42] <les_away> anyway, the ony problem with wood heat is carrying in 20 tons of cordwood a season and stuffing it in the stoves
[03:42:57] <les_away> it works, but it is a huge amount of work
[03:43:02] <Jymmm> how many sq ft?
[03:43:15] <les_away> takes a couple hours out of each day
[03:43:36] <les_away> I don't know..small
[03:43:40] <les_away> 2500 or 300
[03:43:45] <les_away> 3000
[03:43:56] <Jymmm> heh, I was gonna say =)
[03:44:22] <Jymmm> well, no shoot type thing you could use?
[03:44:31] <Jymmm> with a hopper on top
[03:44:36] <les_away> plenty of romm for just me and a cat
[03:44:48] <Jymmm> and the chicken too
[03:44:49] <les_away> room
[03:45:07] <les_away> underpinning is the only way
[03:45:19] <Jymmm> underpinning???
[03:45:25] <les_away> with termite resistant stuff
[03:45:46] <les_away> well sealing off the floor from the outside
[03:45:52] <Jymmm> ah
[03:46:07] <les_away> cannot get under there to do insulation
[03:46:24] <les_away> was built really dumb
[03:46:57] <Jymmm> built by a hill billy?
[03:47:02] <les_away> yup
[03:47:09] <Jymmm> heh
[03:47:11] <les_away> and
[03:47:39] <les_away> they didn't know sh#t about it
[03:47:55] <Jymmm> lol
[03:48:19] <les_away> but hey the price was right
[03:50:18] <les_away> understand even now....here there are no codes...and no building inspectors. If you want to build something you just do it!
[03:51:25] <les_away> Which is fine by me ...I am an engineer and make things to code
[03:51:50] <les_away> but the hillbillies put up some pretty unsafe shacks
[03:51:53] <paul_c> * paul_c just codes things
[03:52:17] <les_away> still up....
[03:52:41] <paul_c> yup - Trying to fix a prob...
[03:52:41] <les_away> I wish I did not have to waste a third of my life sleeping
[03:53:28] <les_away> well I put in my share of all nighters in the past
[03:55:56] <les_away> First year here I typically worked in the shop till 10 or 11
[03:55:58] <les_away> and
[03:56:06] <les_away> zero pay!
[03:56:33] <les_away> actually negative pay
[03:57:04] <les_away> spent 20,000+ just on parts for that machine
[03:57:19] <les_away> ha
[03:58:18] <les_away> les_away is now known as les
[04:01:49] <les> well I am ready for bed and Paul should be ready for breakfast pretty soon
[04:01:52] <les> so
[04:01:57] <les> later!
[04:02:03] <paul_c> 'nother four hours
[04:02:12] <les> heh
[04:05:02] <Jymmm> paul_c eeeeesh, what you doin up so late?!
[04:05:49] <Jymmm> oh I disbaled bootsplash in grub, but still comes up dueing shutdown. any idea on what I need to edit?
[04:08:19] <paul_c> update-rc.d -f bootsplash remove
[04:10:55] <Jymmm> and thats for shutdown?
[04:11:30] <paul_c> both.
[04:12:45] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[04:13:54] <Jymmm> tyvm
[04:14:41] <paul_c> apt-get install funny-manpages
[04:14:50] <Jymmm> funny?
[04:15:02] <paul_c> man rtfm
[04:15:30] <Jymmm> I'm waiting to get a Linux Cookbook for my birthday
[04:15:48] <paul_c> don't look at me...
[04:16:24] <Jymmm> after all I do for you?! Where else you gonna get a whooooping from, then from me?!
[04:16:40] <paul_c> Got mine cheap @ B&N earlier this year..
[04:16:49] <Jymmm> B&M ?
[04:17:00] <paul_c> Darnes & Noble
[04:17:10] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[04:17:13] <paul_c> Barnes & Noble
[04:19:18] <paul_c> when is your 25th anyways ?
[04:19:29] <Jymmm> 25th what?
[04:19:40] <paul_c> b'day
[04:19:46] <Jymmm> a LONG time ago
[04:20:09] <paul_c> 50th ?
[04:20:38] <Jymmm> a long time away
[04:37:08] <paul_c> damit... I wish Jon would start doing his own support...
[04:37:15] <Jymmm> ?
[04:37:36] <Jymmm> is he bitching about booting still?
[04:37:36] <paul_c> Hi Paul/Jon,
[04:37:36] <paul_c> I've done a little more investigating with the problem I have running
[04:37:37] <paul_c> the USC card with BDI 4.23.
[04:37:45] <paul_c> </quote>
[04:39:07] <paul_c> dunno what Jon's problem is..
[04:48:31] <LawrenceG> * LawrenceG ... back from power failure
[04:49:37] <Jymmm> congrats!
[04:50:19] <LawrenceG> thanks jymmm... tree down across the powerlines.... kind of windy today... camp stove worked for dinner
[04:50:57] <Jymmm> been there, done that. but have those protable stoves that chefs use. very nice, very clean
[04:51:49] <paul_c> VoltToCount in ppmc_pwm.c looks very dodgy to me....
[04:52:27] <Jymmm> paul_c just becsue you get CC'ed, doens't mean you AHVE to respond to it,
[04:54:05] <paul_c> I'm only looking at the src while a test CD does it's thing...
[04:54:30] <paul_c> My beta-bitch appears to be on holiday. ;-f
[04:59:14] <Jymmm> hi A-L-P-H-A
[04:59:47] <A-L-P-H-A> hi Jymmm
[05:03:06] <paul_c> Oh boy, oh boy.... A divide by zero in realtime kernel space..... That's gonna hurt....
[05:03:26] <Jymmm> that hurts anytime
[05:05:20] <paul_c> as you say.... I doens't AHVE to respond... Not my hardware or code. therefore NMP.
[05:05:37] <Jymmm> there ya go.
[05:25:43] <paul_c> don't have to... But I will...
[05:40:28] <Jymmm> I wouldn't, let him respond to it, then contact you if theres problems.
[05:40:46] <Jymmm> his docs are nto very good, anon had problems installing.
[05:41:32] <Jymmm> he wrote the damn thing, let him fins the problem, write the proper drivers, etc then update cvs.
[05:41:47] <paul_c> Too late... Sent a note to Tim via the list asking for the results of setting a single param to zero.
[05:42:11] <Jymmm> k
[05:43:10] <paul_c> if/when it blows up, I can whistle innocently in the background..
[05:45:12] <Jymmm> or get one so you can do some testing
[05:46:15] <paul_c> I'm not buying a USC just for testing someone elses screwball code.
[05:46:37] <Jymmm> who said BUY ?
[05:48:58] <paul_c> Jon had the chance to buy me a beer/lunch and/or offer the h/w up for testing at the codeFest..
[05:49:28] <Jymmm> oh well, his loss.
[05:53:17] <paul_c> nearly breakfast time...
[09:09:51] <Jymmm> anyone know how to restore grub after XP install?
[09:24:27] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, http://www.google.ca/search?q=restore+grub&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
[09:26:49] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A doesn't help one bit
[09:28:45] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, the second link. http://fedoranews.org/contributors/bob_kashani/grub/
[09:30:27] <Jymmm> and even though emc is debian base,d a FC cd will be fine?
[09:51:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Thanks.
[10:01:04] <Jacky^> morning
[10:02:55] <Jymmm> morning Jacky^
[10:03:14] <Jacky^> hi Jymmm :)
[10:03:48] <Jacky^> relax time for you .. ;)
[10:04:14] <Jymmm> about to call it a night actually.
[10:04:24] <Jacky^> :)
[10:04:41] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[10:04:50] <Jacky^> G night Jymmm
[11:54:24] <Imperator_> logger_aj: bookmark
[11:54:24] <Imperator_> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-09-10#T11-54-24
[15:23:54] <bosone77> hello! someone can help me for eagle and emc?
[15:26:50] <bosone77> is there a way to convert RS274X to RS276NGC?
[15:27:08] <alex_joni> what's rs274x ?
[15:27:36] <bosone77> is extended gerber for photoplotter
[15:28:03] <alex_joni> sorry.. no idea
[15:28:18] <alex_joni> but for eagle there is a script to output rs276ngc
[15:28:44] <bosone77> where i can find it?
[15:29:18] <alex_joni> ask cradek
[15:29:27] <alex_joni> somewhere on unpy.net, not sure where
[15:29:49] <bosone77> ok
[15:36:09] <cradek> lots of ulp scripts on www.cadsoft.de
[15:39:32] <alex_joni> yeah that too
[15:39:33] <alex_joni> hi chris
[15:41:15] <bosone77> thanks cradek
[16:04:09] <dave-e> gosh! it is quiet
[16:04:18] <alex_joni_> spooky
[16:04:25] <dave-e> oh hi alex
[16:04:36] <dave-e> just the person i wanted to talk to.
[16:04:41] <alex_joni_> really?
[16:04:45] <alex_joni_> what about?
[16:04:59] <dave-e> how is the stg driver for 4.20 coming/
[16:05:09] <dave-e> well 4.xx
[16:05:16] <alex_joni_> it's not for 4.xx
[16:05:20] <alex_joni_> it's for emc2
[16:05:29] <alex_joni_> but emc2 runs on any BDI
[16:05:36] <dave-e> OK, oh....guess that means I'm going to have to migrate
[16:05:47] <alex_joni_> well.. you need to decide that ;)
[16:05:58] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ is a bit biased
[16:06:04] <dave-e> only a bit.
[16:06:05] <alex_joni_> so I couldn't advise you :D
[16:06:13] <alex_joni_> anyways.. the thing is:
[16:06:15] <dave-e> what i've seen looks good
[16:06:18] <alex_joni_> I think it's ready
[16:06:23] <alex_joni_> the STG driver I mean
[16:06:24] <alex_joni_> but
[16:06:30] <dave-e> so you've tested?
[16:06:37] <alex_joni_> 1. I don't have ADC's on my card (so I didn't test that)
[16:06:47] <alex_joni_> 2. I didn't test the encoders yet (lack of time)
[16:06:55] <alex_joni_> DAC's work ok, so do IO
[16:07:34] <dave-e> well emc doesn't use the adc so that is not critical..but the encoders and dacs are a bit handy.
[16:07:48] <alex_joni_> dacs are ok
[16:07:55] <dave-e> that is a start
[16:07:56] <alex_joni_> encoders should be too
[16:08:01] <alex_joni_> but only should ;)
[16:08:14] <alex_joni_> I was away the last 2 weeks (holidays)
[16:08:27] <alex_joni_> and will be away the next week too (some fair in germany)
[16:08:30] <dave-e> good for you...go someplace interestn
[16:08:37] <dave-e> interesting
[16:08:41] <alex_joni_> yeah.. was very nice
[16:08:48] <alex_joni_> was 1 week in croatia (istria)
[16:08:51] <alex_joni_> and 1 week in rome
[16:09:01] <dave-e> sounds like fun
[16:09:07] <alex_joni_> indeed
[16:09:40] <alex_joni_> you got a STG?
[16:09:54] <dave-e> I managed to get togeather with family for some camping over labor day weekend...worked a little on brushing the old place....old farm in family
[16:10:15] <alex_joni_> sounds nice
[16:10:16] <les> hi dave and alex
[16:10:18] <dave-e> yes I'm running an stg (orginal) on the mazak
[16:10:21] <dave-e> hi les
[16:10:24] <alex_joni_> hey les
[16:10:40] <alex_joni_> dave-e: you might want to try it out then ;)
[16:10:48] <les> hey dave did you ever mess with ATC stuf with emc?
[16:10:52] <dave-e> I'm thinking....
[16:11:05] <dave-e> but yes it would be possible with a lot of help.
[16:11:36] <dave-e> les...I have about 1/2 of the stuff wired on the atc.
[16:12:05] <alex_joni_> dave-e: help on what area?
[16:12:06] <dave-e> tom went down to Galesburg a week ago...and traced a bunch more wiring.
[16:12:12] <les> emc really has no comms set up for atc stuff right?
[16:12:39] <dave-e> he copied the docs on the tool change and is sending them to me.
[16:13:00] <alex_joni_> atc = Appalachian Trail Conservancy ?
[16:13:02] <dave-e> also there is a big file out in the dropbox with the same stuff
[16:13:06] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[16:13:09] <les> really
[16:13:11] <alex_joni_> hey steve
[16:13:28] <alex_joni_> atc = Australia Tibet Council ?
[16:13:33] <les> heh
[16:13:45] <dave-e> no comms in emc for atc...I';m just test with a non-realtime C program
[16:13:53] <alex_joni_> American Technical Ceramics ?
[16:13:54] <les> hmmm
[16:14:11] <steve_stallings> Hi Alex, et. all
[16:14:20] <les> I am facing a nightmare of tool changes as I up the spindle hp and feeds
[16:14:32] <les> perhaps 100+ changes a day
[16:14:35] <dave-e> anyone out there have strong feeling about a certain brand of LCD monitor
[16:14:55] <steve_stallings> The stuff Tom captured is in the dropbox if you can download 30 MB
[16:15:00] <steve_stallings> http://linuxcnc.org/dropbox/mazak-atc.tar
[16:15:08] <dave-e> thanks steve
[16:15:09] <les> sure...thanks
[16:15:45] <steve_stallings> The LinuxCNC server is on 384K link so overnight is preferred.
[16:16:18] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ stops the download
[16:16:37] <les> with a hundred tool changes a day, an ISO 30 ATC electrospindle at $5k is starting to look not so bad
[16:16:54] <dave-e> atc would be nice.
[16:17:01] <alex_joni_> what's atc?
[16:17:04] <les> other option is to palletize the work
[16:17:17] <les> automatic tool changer
[16:17:23] <alex_joni_> ahh.. ok ;)
[16:17:41] <steve_stallings> Alex, did it actually start, I didn't see bandwidth saturate?
[16:17:44] <les> emc has some code but it's not quite there
[16:17:47] <dave-e> handy stuff ... a few seconds chip to chip
[16:17:49] <alex_joni_> it's 30kB here
[16:17:55] <alex_joni_> I'm on a cellphone
[16:18:38] <dave-e> les..probably the best atc code right now is in tkio
[16:19:11] <dave-e> it needs to fleshed out but the basics are there and so is the nml which is the hard part.
[16:19:16] <alex_joni_> steve_stallings: how does it look now?
[16:19:36] <les> with router I would just have the tools in a row somewhere in the work envelope
[16:19:58] <dave-e> basically a pick and place type changer
[16:20:02] <steve_stallings> Alex, holding at about 50%, that is fine.
[16:20:39] <les> so an M06Txx has to cause a motion to a particular destination for each tool
[16:21:07] <les> need some dio for confirming toll release and grab etc
[16:21:20] <les> tool
[16:22:13] <dave-e> that can all be part of the code ....T4 is in a given spot, etc
[16:22:45] <les> I think a really reliable changer needs closed loop confirmation of the process
[16:23:08] <les> using hall sensors etc
[16:23:10] <dave-e> limit switches at both ends of a move
[16:23:40] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[16:24:06] <les> yeah...picking up or putting a tool in the caddy needs to fire a switch
[16:24:08] <dave-e> mazak tends to confirm both ends...ie move started with one switch and move ended with another
[16:24:29] <les> need 3 or 4 bits for that though huh
[16:24:48] <dave-e> that is minor
[16:25:06] <dave-e> I need about 15 inputs and 12 outputs to do minimal tool change
[16:25:18] <les> extra parport would be plenty
[16:25:43] <gezr> I believe, most of the newer tool changers, use a custom drive to perform the change as les is thinking, cnc gives control over to changer, changer gives control back when the process is complete
[16:26:02] <dave-e> or use the opto-22 stuff on a 8255 (i/o) board
[16:26:04] <alex_joni> dave-e: the stg should have plenty io
[16:26:20] <les> stg runs out
[16:26:27] <dave-e> not for a real tool change...
[16:26:46] <alex_joni> then an IO board
[16:26:51] <dave-e> yep
[16:26:55] <steve_stallings> Dave, what is your take on the type of electrical specs needed for I/O? Is the ability to handle 220 VAC at 125 mA useful for outputs (24 VDC still available)?
[16:27:02] <gezr> les is the changer your looking at a hydraulic clamper?
[16:27:28] <les> electric I think...might be air
[16:28:19] <les> motenc has enough io
[16:28:19] <gezr> 4bit would give what 16 tools positions?
[16:28:24] <les> yup
[16:28:33] <dave-e> I'd pretty much go with the Mazak ... 24 vdc for limit switches and 110 v to drive the solenoids but that is simply what i have to work with.
[16:28:37] <andib> jacky
[16:28:42] <andib> help me
[16:28:48] <gezr> 5 isnt enough, so 6 and you just drop a few of them off
[16:29:05] <dave-e> yes motenc does have enough and the new driver board has enough power on the outputs to be useful
[16:29:15] <gezr> les the tool changer for the acroloc is pretty interesting how it works, its really simple
[16:29:59] <les> all the atc routers seem to be iso 30 taper
[16:30:03] <gezr> it uses a spring loaded mechanism to atatch the tools, and there is no clampling/unclamping, just a method of compressing the springs as the head pulls up, or moves down
[16:30:17] <les> neat
[16:30:35] <gezr> its not so good for side milling though :(
[16:30:50] <gezr> but the tool position selector is really simple
[16:30:59] <les> I don't really even knoe exactly how those spindles work
[16:31:00] <gezr> its basically, a tape reader
[16:31:10] <les> some kind of draw bar I guess
[16:31:35] <gezr> iso 30 is hydraulic or air accuated belvil washer clamping, or it should be
[16:32:03] <les> I see
[16:32:07] <gezr> one could use a drawbar, but thats not really perfect
[16:32:21] <les> not at 24krpm!
[16:32:36] <gezr> not for automation, air drawbar, or electric drawbars, are great when your standing there,
[16:32:50] <dave-e> the belleville washer tensions a set of fingers that hold onto the retention knob
[16:33:00] <les> ok
[16:33:03] <gezr> right
[16:33:33] <les> anyway this kinda hinges on how much work to get atc functional on emc
[16:34:06] <gezr> and the hydraulics, when done right, just compress the spring, which pushes the fingers forward, knocking the end of the retention knob, and ejecting the tool into the changer mechanism
[16:34:28] <les> dave and I are prob the only ones in the world that need it heh
[16:34:42] <alex_joni> les: there might be plenty others out there
[16:34:49] <alex_joni> they just don't know it yet
[16:34:49] <dave-e> but a lot of other people would like to have one
[16:35:35] <steve_stallings> Plenty of potential users of tool changer logic in EMC...
[16:35:40] <les> none of this stuff would have to be hard real time
[16:35:53] <gezr> no, it could be as simple as a bit out to a plc
[16:36:10] <les> yeah
[16:36:10] <alex_joni> gezr: given that the plc can move the machine
[16:36:16] <gezr> right
[16:36:32] <alex_joni> or you do the move from emc, and sync with the plc through pins
[16:36:49] <alex_joni> there is a soft plc in emc2, not sure how well it works though
[16:37:11] <les> It seems it would be about as easy to just have the plc functions in code
[16:37:18] <dave-e> pick and place tc is different than a dual arm...
[16:37:24] <gezr> the thing about tool changing is, that things can go wrong, even on good machines, a tool doesent sit properly and ends up getting ejecting and stuff,
[16:37:30] <les> parport might not be the best thing to use long term I guess
[16:37:48] <dave-e> some spindles have to be all the way up to release the tool
[16:37:57] <dave-e> which may complicate tc
[16:38:22] <dave-e> pretty much means you have to move the tool to the spindle
[16:38:30] <gezr> les : the one your looking at is move, unclamp, lift, rotate to next tool, sit down on tool, clamp, move to operating position?
[16:38:48] <les> gezr on router one would need rock solid verification that the tool is on the spindle properly and locked
[16:39:03] <gezr> les there is no such beast
[16:39:14] <les> I would just have a row of tools...no carousel
[16:39:18] <gezr> well there is, but still, its a rod on a spring sorta
[16:39:38] <gezr> or use a light gate to verify change is complete
[16:40:15] <gezr> les, then all you need if your using a pick in place tool thing, is the macro code to get to the Tx position, and then the clamp/unclamp codes
[16:40:47] <les> I wonder how iso 30 is as far as mismounted or misaligned tools
[16:41:03] <gezr> especially if your using a machine with verified home positions at start, then the macros are based upon the home position logic
[16:41:30] <les> yeah I have encoder index verified home
[16:41:36] <gezr> les 5deg of spindle drift for fresh sit on a new tool, will disloclate the bracket that holds the tools in place
[16:41:52] <les> wow hmmm
[16:42:03] <gezr> cant forget that you have to hold the spindle in a fixed position so that the tangs line up
[16:42:16] <dave-e> the retention knob needs to be centered on the gripper ....
[16:42:26] <les> oh well I am mapped out everywhere to better than .001
[16:42:32] <les> at 25c
[16:42:51] <dave-e> if you really miss then you come off with no tool which is much better than having a tool mismounted
[16:43:06] <les> yup
[16:43:09] <gezr> well, the issue is can you drill a hole in your spindle, where you can either hydraulic, air, or selonoid drive a pin into the spindle so that its rotary position is fixed
[16:43:34] <les> hmm
[16:43:46] <gezr> if you can do that, you can do changes
[16:44:09] <gezr> or just go with a tang free morse taper
[16:44:11] <dave-e> ah, yes .. back to spindle orientation ... for the drive dog
[16:44:47] <les> how about after tool pickup slow rotation near a hall , optical, or other sensor to detect proper seating?
[16:45:20] <gezr> its going to properly seat, it just there isnt much room for error in the alingment of the drive dogs
[16:45:41] <les> so its either seat or drop huh?
[16:45:42] <dave-e> 10-15 thou
[16:46:19] <gezr> les : on a fixed bracket tool holder, if it sits down on the tool with the dogs not alinged, its going to move the bracket down at leat 3/8"
[16:46:37] <dave-e> if it is centered and the spindle is down the fingers will pull it in a few thou
[16:46:53] <les> k
[16:46:57] <les> well
[16:47:12] <gezr> if you sucessfully pick the tool up, then a light gate under the tool will go 1 and give the control the go ahead to move on
[16:47:25] <les> where's the code for this then?
[16:47:59] <les> at least the stuff already written?
[16:48:01] <gezr> or you can have a gate, where the tool touches a small metal bar, to pass a singnal through to verify to the machine that it has a tool in the spindle
[16:48:14] <les> right
[16:48:36] <dave-e> it is a little obscure but look at tkio
[16:48:45] <les> ok
[16:48:54] <dave-e> add and modify for your specific use
[16:49:07] <les> how about the cannonical for M06?
[16:49:25] <dave-e> i think that is already there
[16:49:33] <gezr> http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/0803cnc.html
[16:50:10] <gezr> I should read these before I post them, that one is standard g code, not what imlooking for
[16:51:14] <les> well for sure a lot of the tool change stuff (the moves) could be done by postprocessing the cam file
[16:51:34] <Jymmm>
[16:51:49] <dave-e> brb
[16:51:51] <les> seems storing the stuff in the tool table would be more elegant
[16:51:54] <les> k
[16:53:22] <les> uh oh c++
[16:53:49] <gezr> les, the accualy move to position program could be a macro call
[16:54:01] <Jymmm> As an alternative to the C++-based bridgeportio, we wrote a Tcl/Tk-based PLC. Here's what we did:
[16:54:47] <les> yeah....looks like les has to learn tcl/tk
[16:55:40] <les> let me bring that up
[16:55:45] <Jymmm> oh, and if you get REALLY brave.... there is always RFID chips too.
[16:58:35] <paul_c> dave-e: BDI-4.26 is ready for you to break..
[16:58:47] <Jymmm> les when you build a tool changer for a router, let me know.
[16:58:56] <Jymmm> paul_c your rescue mode if broke
[16:58:59] <Jymmm> is
[16:59:02] <les> hmmm tcl/tk looks kinda like basic
[16:59:39] <paul_c> Jymmm: Did you read the release notes ?
[16:59:55] <Jymmm> paul_c: Yep, now fix it!
[17:00:26] <alex_joni> paul_c: seems there's no 4.26 release info
[17:00:43] <paul_c> Jymmm: Is there an emoticon for the bird ?
[17:00:43] <alex_joni> there are 2 4.25 and 2 4.24
[17:00:47] <gezr> I dont know how emc does macros, but you could have parameters for each tools position based on a work cordinate or off the home, then when the macro is called, say macro06 p5 for tool 5, then in the macro if p =5 n105, then n105 has the index the spindle, move to position xp03 yp04(current empty pod), g01 zp1(tool into pod), Mxx unclamp, pause, g01 zp2(position above nobs on tools) f100.0, g0 xp501 yp502(x and y of tool 5), g01 zp1(sit down position), mxx (cla
[17:01:12] <Jymmm> paul_c: if I'm gonna be your beta bitch, your gonna be my fixit-bitch!
[17:01:14] <gezr> p3= p501, p4= p502 set open tool spot
[17:01:26] <les> hmm
[17:01:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks Jymmm is walking on thin ice
[17:01:53] <les> no place in the tool table currently for location....
[17:01:57] <Jymmm> alex_joni hardly
[17:02:01] <alex_joni> heh
[17:02:17] <gezr> les thats why I wrote you what I just did, I can helpyou with macro stuff
[17:02:31] <les> cool
[17:02:49] <les> Hmm I can kinda read tcl/tk
[17:03:06] <gezr> im talking about doing it without having to alter the emc code
[17:03:08] <paul_c> alex_joni: Check again..
[17:03:32] <alex_joni> paul_c: nice
[17:04:33] <gezr> I ahve to take some stuff to the landfill, you guys have fun
[17:04:51] <les> k
[17:04:53] <les> global toolState toolStatus
[17:04:53] <les> global toolPrepped toolInSpindle
[17:04:57] <les> hmm
[17:05:18] <paul_c> alex_joni: Check again..
[17:05:34] <gezr> les ill look at the change stuff later, and ill do my best to help you out, thinking about a method to index your spindle
[17:05:58] <gezr> if all you can come up with is make emc position it to the index mark on an encoder, thats perfect
[17:06:33] <gezr> use or any set mark on an encoder from index :)
[17:07:41] <les> k
[17:07:58] <les> I need to go to landfill too..but not open on sat
[17:08:33] <les> was gonna hog a few acres...but doesn't need it.
[17:08:48] <les> wish the weeds would grow faster!
[17:11:45] <Jymmm> paul_c: Per your request........
[17:12:53] <Jymmm> http://www.textfiles.com/art/afinger.txt
[17:13:06] <les> has anyone tried tkio?
[17:13:55] <alex_joni> les: I'm pretty sure rayh has
[17:14:32] <les> i'll check with him then
[17:14:43] <les> if he ever gets on!
[17:15:11] <paul_c> Jymmm: Is there a one liner ?
[17:15:54] <alex_joni> gzip it
[17:23:37] <dave-e> ray doesn't seem to be home today.
[17:23:44] <paul_c> Jymmm: ��A�c�
[17:23:44] <paul_c> ��d��V0`�:�Ū�o-e���=�ry��˸�{| h%��#��|F
[17:23:45] <paul_c>
[17:23:45] <paul_c> @p�����+�$3f�9m��D ���hS
[17:24:52] <les> ah....tcl/tk?
[17:24:57] <les> haha
[17:26:11] <dave-e> les aligning a spindle isn't easy.
[17:26:32] <dave-e> my machine uses a cam and a dog but at 25K that won't work
[17:26:56] <dave-e> maybe optical and a small slot/
[17:27:10] <alex_joni> dave-e: how about encoder on spindle?
[17:27:28] <dave-e> a resolver is about the only device that can go 25K and survive
[17:28:03] <dave-e> most encoders roll over at 6k
[17:28:41] <alex_joni> resolver then
[17:28:45] <alex_joni> even better
[17:29:02] <steve_stallings> Optical encoders fail to provide valid output at high RPMs, but they do not fail mechanically. Once the speed is back to something rational, they resume operation.
[17:29:11] <dave-e> tough for electronics... to get good resolution
[17:29:25] <alex_joni> and you actually need a single slot
[17:29:28] <alex_joni> like the home pulse
[17:29:35] <paul_c> There are encoders that can output 5MHz pulses
[17:29:45] <alex_joni> not very cheap I reckon
[17:29:48] <Jymmm> paul_c wth was that shit?!
[17:29:49] <paul_c> Not cheap, but they are there
[17:29:52] <dave-e> the koyo's I have are only rated to 6K rpm
[17:30:05] <alex_joni> Jymmm: gzip -d and you'll see
[17:30:47] <dave-e> but for alignment you only need to use the encoder at low speeds...the rest of the time you can ignore it.
[17:31:34] <dave-e> maybe one of the aligent metal disks...and your own enclosure
[17:32:17] <les> sorry was away asecond
[17:33:21] <les> by alignment you mean just having the spindle in the right place?
[17:33:29] <Jymmm> whats a 'resolver' ?
[17:33:38] <les> I don't quite understand
[17:33:50] <dave-e> basically a rotating transformer
[17:34:26] <Jymmm> like a galvanometer?
[17:34:26] <dave-e> to tool change you need the drive notch in the iso30 to line up with the dog on the spindle
[17:34:41] <les> as far as a crooked tool holder or something...that could be detected by an analog sensor
[17:35:31] <dave-e> jymmmm more like a motor that you pump with an oscillator
[17:35:33] <les> so iso 30 holder has to be in a particular angular position relative to the spindle?
[17:35:40] <dave-e> maybe steve can explain better
[17:35:40] <alex_joni> Jymmm: imagine this. you have a sinus pumped into the motor
[17:36:15] <alex_joni> the shaft takes that sinus (because it's magnetic) and pumps it back to 2 windings
[17:36:33] <alex_joni> a sinus and a cosinus winding (because they are 90 degrees off-sync)
[17:36:47] <alex_joni> now, you have the initial signal sent, and the 2 signals that came back
[17:37:03] <alex_joni> with these you know very precisely where you are, and what direction you're going
[17:37:15] <alex_joni> that's why you have 2 of them ( for the direction)
[17:37:40] <alex_joni> along one rotation the phase difference will go from 0 - 2*pi
[17:37:45] <dave-e> there are chips... analog devices c omes to mind...that convert resolver to binary
[17:37:58] <alex_joni> between the reference signals and one of the signals that come back
[17:38:02] <dave-e> 10 bit and 14 bit
[17:39:03] <Jymmm> do hallefect's work at high rpm?
[17:39:36] <les> magnetic stuff in general can
[17:40:07] <les> again...does the spindle have to be at a particular angular position?
[17:40:23] <steve_stallings> yes for most changers
[17:40:37] <les> well that complicates things a bit
[17:41:15] <dave-e> http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/ArticleID/18733/18733.html
[17:41:20] <les> looking
[17:41:56] <steve_stallings> orient can be a mechanical function, an independent analog function (like Mazak at CNC Workshop), or under control of motion system
[17:42:16] <dave-e> les this may an excuse to use the adc on the stg ;-)
[17:42:56] <dave-e> steve...i worry about what you can hang on a spindle that turns 25K.
[17:43:09] <les> I have some melexis hall gear tooth sensors
[17:43:16] <les> pretty fast I think
[17:43:27] <dave-e> otherwise mechanical is good
[17:43:52] <les> just count slots or something on the spindle
[17:44:28] <steve_stallings> first you need to know if the spindle motor can be driven as a servo
[17:44:47] <dave-e> les . the Mazak at Galesburg had an interesting spindle sensor...check with jmk about it
[17:44:50] <steve_stallings> if not, mechanical is about the only option
[17:45:21] <dave-e> steve...good point...unless you are going back to a mechanical solution
[17:46:08] <Jymmm> what about a magnetic "clamp" of sorts?
[17:46:19] <Jymmm> electro-magnetic
[17:46:25] <steve_stallings> Mazak just used a resolver (or similar) to produce a signal that was pos DC on one side of center and neg on other side of center, then just fed signal to servo amp when orient was required
[17:48:39] <steve_stallings> many mechanical orient systems allow for two lock positions, 180 degrees apart, which makes balancing the mechanical easier
[17:49:17] <Jymmm> Excuse my ignorance, but whats with all this sensoring for a tool changer?
[17:49:32] <Jymmm> and whats the deal with the high RPM's being an issue?
[17:49:37] <dave-e> now can you derive that easily from the phase differences of a resolver....and of course the spindle still must be a servo
[17:49:38] <les> so orient actually turns the spindle slowly to a particular angular position?
[17:50:10] <dave-e> jymmmm balance...eg centrifical force
[17:50:38] <Jymmm> dave-e: So, your talking the spindle rotation being part of the tool change operation somehow?
[17:50:46] <dave-e> absolutely
[17:50:52] <Jymmm> why?
[17:50:58] <dave-e> actually spindle orient
[17:51:25] <dave-e> there is a notch in the iso toolholder that must match up with the drive dog in the spindle
[17:51:34] <Jymmm> are you talking some type of revolver type setup?
[17:52:16] <Jymmm> like a .38 revolver I mean
[17:52:34] <steve_stallings> les, there are also newer types of tool holders (HSK being one I think) that take advantage of centrifical force to tighten the grip on the toolholder at high RPM
[17:53:12] <dave-e> I suspect they still need the alignment
[17:53:36] <dave-e> but i've just seen pictures not actually seen a spindle or a toolholder
[17:54:12] <les> is the dog/slot radial constraint optional?
[17:55:04] <dave-e> I don't think so... I would not rely on friction to keep the toolholder from spinning in the spindle
[17:55:30] <les> I need to see some pictures I guess
[17:55:40] <Jymmm> what about something like this....
[17:55:40] <Jymmm> | |
[17:55:41] <Jymmm> | |
[17:55:41] <Jymmm> \/\/\/\/\/
[17:55:41] <Jymmm> |\/\/\/\/\/|
[17:55:41] <Jymmm> | |
[17:56:11] <dave-e> custom spindle???
[17:56:21] <les> well the spindles are already made ...have to go with what's on there
[17:56:23] <steve_stallings> gotta run, post office closes soon....
[17:56:35] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[17:56:37] <Jymmm> yeah, but it wouldn't rely upon friction alone.
[17:56:59] <Jymmm> and "should" align itself too
[17:58:11] <Jymmm> les is thinking professional, I'm thinking poor mans =)
[17:59:46] <les> http://www.cncsupport.co.uk/hsd_spindles.htm
[17:59:56] <les> don't see any kind of dog
[17:59:59] <Jymmm> I take that back... I'm thinking lazy =)
[18:00:06] <les> not on that one anyway
[18:00:39] <dave-e> http://cgi.ebay.com/LYNDEX-BT30-1-2-DIAMETER-HOLDER-BT-30-MORE-LISTED_W0QQitemZ7544874889QQcategoryZ57024QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[18:00:48] <Jymmm> I like the centrifical force idea
[18:01:09] <dave-e> opps..that didn't work tried to paste an ebay bt 30 pic
[18:01:31] <dave-e> never mind...just took time
[18:01:45] <Jymmm> =)
[18:01:50] <dave-e> that notch must match teh dog
[18:01:53] <dave-e> the
[18:02:15] <les> looking
[18:02:18] <Jymmm> w/o being a smartass... why does it HAVE to?
[18:02:34] <Jymmm> just to prevent slippage?
[18:02:45] <dave-e> otherwise it won't snug into the taper
[18:03:42] <Jymmm> ok, so the tooth thing I pasted above should/would work (in theory) ?
[18:03:57] <dave-e> good tapers have about 80+ % contact with the spindle
[18:04:40] <Jymmm> makes sense.
[18:04:45] <dave-e> yes it would...with a custom spindle and set of toolholders ... but more force trying to pull the toolholder out of the taper.
[18:05:41] <Jymmm> hmmmmm
[18:07:04] <paul_c> hey dave-e.... Do you have a USC ??
[18:07:21] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers *
[18:07:38] <dave-e> http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/100105.html
[18:07:52] <dave-e> paul_c... eh?
[18:08:10] <les> I am not seeing dogs on router holdes
[18:08:14] <les> http://www.southeasttool.com/Tool%20Holders.htm
[18:08:50] <dave-e> paul_c you mean Jon's stepper controller....no I have a ppmc
[18:11:33] <paul_c> Oh well... Can't get you to test for a possible bug then..
[18:15:04] <dave-e> difficult
[18:15:12] <les> so seemingly orient is not required on router atc but is on mills
[18:15:53] <les> (torques are lower on the former)
[18:15:55] <dave-e> Onsrud site makes noises about hsk-63 as being able to handle more torque, etc than is030
[18:16:02] <dave-e> iso30
[18:16:11] <les> I will call HSD monday and ask about this
[18:16:25] <les> I saw that dave
[18:17:35] <les> I would think hsk always must be oriented
[18:18:00] <les> never used it
[18:18:13] <dave-e> i should think so...and the spindle drives all look like just motors
[18:18:24] <dave-e> guess one has to aks
[18:18:26] <dave-e> ask
[18:19:27] <dave-e> gonna run....gotta get stuff done.
[18:19:33] <dave-e> have fun.
[18:21:24] <les> yeah I am gonna go out and fire up the chain saw
[18:22:17] <les> and saw a few chains.
[18:23:19] <Jymmm> les you wus!
[18:23:28] <les> heh
[18:23:29] <Jymmm> les It's called EXPLOSIVES!!!
[18:23:46] <les> rrrrrriiiin rin rin
[18:43:51] <gezr> is les using a weed eater to cut up some limbs?
[18:44:31] <gezr> * gezr wonders if he wears a mask while chopping
[18:44:32] <paul_c> nah... He uses a golf clud to cut the grass..
[18:44:50] <gezr> heh
[18:51:50] <alex_joni> a wooden one to make it even harder
[18:51:50] <alex_joni> :D
[19:04:45] <Imperator_> Hi all
[19:04:58] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[19:07:15] <Imperator_> Hi laex, whats up ??
[19:07:19] <Imperator_> Alex
[19:07:29] <alex_joni> just finished packing
[19:09:04] <Imperator_> for going to Essen ?
[19:09:25] <Imperator_> do you have to travel there tomorrow ?
[19:09:26] <alex_joni> yup
[19:09:37] <paul_c> but, but.... You've just come back from one holiday.
[19:10:11] <Imperator_> Hi Paul
[19:10:20] <paul_c> Hi Martin.
[19:10:51] <Imperator_> I think Alex makes a buissines trip
[19:11:18] <paul_c> no... He is only going for the beer.
[19:11:29] <Imperator_> of cause
[19:12:12] <Imperator_> i was surprised that you can have also in America good beer
[19:12:50] <paul_c> they do have a few good micro brews over there.
[19:13:12] <Imperator_> seams like
[19:13:43] <Imperator_> in germany there are a lot of them, every better village has one
[19:14:22] <Imperator_> and in England ???
[19:15:24] <paul_c> We have some good beers too.
[19:16:17] <Imperator_> nice
[19:16:44] <Imperator_> the next weeks i have to do that gantry stuff
[19:18:15] <Imperator_> my colleagues are starting to build our big machine the next weeks. We have found a cheap room, and a cheap granit stone as frame (2x1,5x0,3m)
[19:19:31] <paul_c> food. Back later.
[19:19:32] <Imperator_> Alex had a good idear to simply export a slave Axis in EMC2. I think that is the best way
[19:22:35] <alex_joni> I did?
[19:22:37] <alex_joni> heh ;)
[19:27:14] <Imperator_> jep
[19:27:32] <Jymmm> you think a 0.015" difference will show up significantly in wood signs?
[19:29:01] <Jymmm> maybe even 0.020"
[19:30:09] <Imperator_> no idea
[19:32:19] <Imperator_> if you finish the result with sandpaper then i think it will be ok
[19:34:58] <Jymmm> this would be for v-carving. so I guess I'll just have to see.
[19:36:09] <Imperator_> then the local accurency will be more importand
[19:36:32] <Imperator_> that start and end of a countour will be on the same point
[19:36:45] <Jymmm> ah, I see what you mean.
[19:37:58] <Jymmm> I'll need to find out what is mucked up.... the 3/4" MDF, what it's sitting on, or the gantry rail alignment. (or combination of the above)
[19:39:07] <Imperator_> don't understand this !!
[19:39:21] <Jymmm> I suspect the frame itself. you think a 0.05" "gap" could increase to 0.20" difference over 20" ?
[19:39:37] <Jymmm> 0.020" i mena
[19:40:23] <Imperator_> maybe
[19:44:40] <Jymmm> http://www.electronickeyboards.com/keyboards-computers-future.html
[19:59:00] <Jymmm> Can I program an external NUM PAD to whatever I want the keys to represent by chance?
[20:38:30] <jepler> Jymmm: you can use xmodmap to change the keysym produced by different keycodes, as long as Linux / XFree86 recognize the device as a keboard...
[21:33:55] <alex_joni> anonimasu: are you around?
[21:49:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I ate him, and he was not so yummy.
[21:49:28] <alex_joni> lol
[22:00:09] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A just add hot sauce
[22:00:30] <Jymmm> jepler is that emc or nix specific?
[22:00:43] <alex_joni> Jymmm: nix
[22:00:55] <Jymmm> I need EMC specific
[22:01:13] <alex_joni> why?
[22:01:46] <Jymmm> so I can map certain keys to specific functions without effecting anything else on the system
[22:02:06] <Jymmm> the ext numpad is to psyude emulate a pendant
[22:02:16] <alex_joni> you might then have a short xmodmap script run before and after the emc.run
[22:02:30] <alex_joni> do you plan to use the ext numpad for other purposes?
[22:02:41] <Jymmm> potentially, yes.
[22:02:55] <alex_joni> ok, then have a script run before emc.run
[22:03:02] <alex_joni> that changes the mapping of those keys
[22:03:10] <alex_joni> and another script after emc has finished
[22:03:17] <alex_joni> to restore the normal mappings
[22:04:13] <Jymmm> does num lock on/off make any difference?
[22:04:20] <alex_joni> dunno
[22:05:10] <Jymmm> with it on, I want to setup the 0-9 to be speed settings, and with it off to jog, home, etc.
[22:06:03] <Jymmm> can xmodmap do something like that? the speed settings?
[22:06:11] <alex_joni> I think so
[22:06:23] <alex_joni> with it on you actually have the 0-9
[22:06:37] <Jymmm> http://www.crindy.com/ebay/0905/genovation14key.jpg
[22:06:43] <alex_joni> with it off you have cursor keys(which correspond to tkemc movements
[22:06:52] <alex_joni> page-up / page-down is for axis Z
[22:07:04] <Jymmm> right, but NUM cursor doesn't respond
[22:07:11] <Jymmm> TkEMC
[22:07:23] <alex_joni> why not?
[22:07:30] <Jymmm> I dont know, it just doens't
[22:07:38] <alex_joni> strange
[22:07:47] <alex_joni> does it work without emc running?
[22:08:05] <Jymmm> on a full size kybd, the dedicated arrow keys jog no problem, but the NUM cursor keys dont
[22:08:27] <Jymmm> Sherline (inch)
[22:08:32] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[22:08:39] <alex_joni> that can easily be fixed
[22:08:41] <alex_joni> in tkemc
[22:08:58] <Jymmm> ok, so I CAN set it up in tkemc then?
[22:09:04] <alex_joni> yup
[22:09:40] <Jymmm> the only thing I can't figure out is how to assign speed to keys, as in the GUI they're sliders.
[22:10:35] <alex_joni> bind AutoBindings <KeyPress-1> {emc_feed_override 10}
[22:10:35] <alex_joni> bind AutoBindings <KeyPress-2> {emc_feed_override 20}
[22:10:35] <alex_joni> bind AutoBindings <KeyPress-3> {emc_feed_override 30}
[22:11:24] <Jymmm> ok, cool
[22:11:32] <alex_joni> that already is there
[22:11:38] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks for numpad keys
[22:11:45] <Jymmm> I think using a ext numpad will be a cheap pendant
[22:20:57] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yup
[22:21:00] <alex_joni> seems it will work
[22:21:09] <alex_joni> you need to add a few lines to make it work
[22:21:25] <alex_joni> bind AutoBindings <KeyPress-KP_1> {emc_feed_override 10}
[22:22:08] <alex_joni> got that?
[22:22:24] <alex_joni> the KP tells tcl/tk to check the numpad
[22:24:35] <Jymmm> ah, ok. very cool
[22:24:58] <Jymmm> what you think of the idea?
[22:25:05] <alex_joni> nice
[22:25:19] <alex_joni> would be great to have some feedback too, but it's nice (and cheap)
[22:25:39] <Jymmm> AND if you weren't aware of this... PS/2 protocol allows multiple kybd/mice to be connected simutanously
[22:25:50] <alex_joni> yeah.. so does USB
[22:25:52] <alex_joni> ;D
[22:26:00] <Jymmm> but no drivers required
[22:26:02] <Jymmm> =)
[22:26:10] <alex_joni> just be carefull and don't disconnect the PS2 during running
[22:26:15] <alex_joni> might damage the chipset
[22:26:18] <Jymmm> purs hardware, no funky ass USB polling bullshit
[22:26:42] <Jymmm> nah, it just stops responding is all.
[22:27:05] <alex_joni> believe me ;)
[22:27:07] <Jymmm> but when you already have one kybd running, you can un/plug a second one w/o issue.
[22:27:15] <alex_joni> I managed to have to change a mobo
[22:27:20] <Jymmm> lol
[22:27:52] <Jymmm> sounds like a cheap mobo =)
[22:28:00] <Jymmm> probably blew out the +5VDC line
[22:28:05] <alex_joni> well.. you're not supposed to do that
[22:28:14] <alex_joni> I plugged an USB keyb eventually
[22:28:16] <alex_joni> it works now
[22:28:21] <alex_joni> just the PS2 is crashed
[22:28:23] <Jymmm> I HATE USB kybd/mice
[22:29:16] <Jymmm> I use a USB <> PS2 adapter for my Fuji laptop, but thats becasue I have to.
[22:29:24] <alex_joni> heh
[22:29:33] <Jymmm> but it's connected to a KVM switch and I use synergy
[22:29:38] <alex_joni> I have one that's the other way around
[22:29:48] <alex_joni> the keyb has USB, and I plugged it into the PS2
[22:30:11] <Jymmm> ah, well this kybd has a PS2 slot on the back of it. make sit easy
[22:30:18] <Jymmm> makes it
[22:35:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:35:58] <alex_joni> night
[22:36:14] <alex_joni> Jymmm: if you actually try it out, be so nice and describe it in a wiki page
[22:36:16] <alex_joni> cheers
[22:46:10] <robin_sz> ps2 is just plain old serial ...
[22:47:27] <jepler> "plain old serial" is a bit of a simplification...
[22:47:39] <jepler> http://www.computer-engineering.org/ps2protocol/
[22:47:59] <robin_sz> well, its just 9600 N81 as I remember ..
[22:49:26] <robin_sz> thats why you can plug a serial mouse straight into a PS2 hole with a simple adaptor
[22:50:52] <robin_sz> hmm clck and data .. oh well, thats my memory gone thewn ;)
[22:52:30] <robin_sz> I wrote a PS2 numpad to serial convertor on a PIC once ... to make pendant for a control that should have had some fancy serial pendant at x hundreds of dollars
[23:09:51] <anna_emc> hello
[23:11:19] <anna_emc> help me Jacky^?
[23:11:47] <anna_emc> problem with linux!
[23:12:10] <anna_emc> hi bosone!
[23:56:34] <les> anyone around?
[23:58:37] <les> heh guess not