#emc | Logs for 2005-08-23

[00:00:07] <robin_sz> how many volts are your motors?
[00:00:33] <Jacky^> no idea about volt, 2A/phase 1,1 ohm
[00:00:39] <robin_sz> right
[00:00:43] <robin_sz> so 2.2V
[00:00:46] <Jacky^> unipolar 6 wired
[00:00:56] <robin_sz> right
[00:00:58] <Jacky^> i'm using 4 wire
[00:01:02] <robin_sz> right
[00:01:12] <robin_sz> as bipolar
[00:01:16] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:01:23] <robin_sz> so ...
[00:01:30] <xet7> Huh, AXIS started on my PentiumII :)
[00:01:31] <Jacky^> PS is about 22 Volt
[00:01:44] <robin_sz> ok, thats 10 times motor voltage
[00:01:49] <robin_sz> xet7: hurrah!
[00:01:57] <Jacky^> xet7: congrats
[00:02:03] <xet7> cool :)
[00:02:22] <xet7> looking at AXIS GUI first time now :)
[00:02:36] <robin_sz> Jacky^: have you tried using only half the winding?
[00:02:45] <robin_sz> less torque, but more speed
[00:03:03] <xet7> with period 0.00005
[00:03:14] <xet7> How half the winding?
[00:03:17] <Jacky^> robin_sz: in 2 of 3 controllers half work fine
[00:03:33] <Jacky^> in the 3d i think something is missing..
[00:04:13] <robin_sz> so ... you have 3 wires per coil .. top, centre-tap, bottom
[00:04:35] <Jacky^> 3 ?
[00:04:40] <Jacky^> 4
[00:04:55] <robin_sz> <Jacky^> unipolar 6 wired
[00:04:58] <robin_sz> you said 6
[00:05:09] <xet7> Hmm, File/Open is dimmed
[00:05:11] <robin_sz> 2 coils ... 3 wires each
[00:05:12] <Jacky^> yes, but i'm usint as bipolar
[00:05:21] <Jacky^> AA-BB
[00:05:41] <Jacky^> yeah, probably right
[00:05:43] <robin_sz> SO >>>>S<<>>S>S
[00:05:49] <xet7> but O opens Open file dialog
[00:05:57] <Jacky^> i suppose so ..
[00:05:58] <robin_sz> you have 2 coils, 3 wires ...
[00:06:20] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:06:22] <robin_sz> coil 1 has connections A-B-C
[00:06:30] <robin_sz> you are using A-C right now
[00:06:36] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:06:42] <robin_sz> the current flows through all the coil
[00:07:02] <robin_sz> if you use connections A-B and leave C unconnected
[00:07:14] <robin_sz> current flows through half the coil
[00:07:25] <robin_sz> half the inductance ..
[00:07:30] <robin_sz> half the voltage drop
[00:07:38] <robin_sz> less torque at low speeds
[00:07:45] <robin_sz> but more torque at high speeds
[00:07:57] <Jacky^> that what i need :s
[00:08:03] <robin_sz> MIGHT work out faster for you .. try it and see
[00:08:52] <robin_sz> depending on motor type, torque curves, the load on it etc
[00:09:17] <robin_sz> it is not guaranteed .. but it can help sometimes
[00:09:29] <Jacky^> thanks :)
[00:09:58] <Jacky^> another issue i'm having is about unit
[00:10:07] <robin_sz> unit?
[00:10:14] <robin_sz> with EMC?
[00:10:22] <Jacky^> using mm as unit and low input scale, running very slow
[00:10:26] <Jacky^> yeah emc1
[00:10:31] <Jacky^> seem a bug
[00:10:43] <Jacky^> changing unit it work fine
[00:10:54] <robin_sz> I think there is problem using mm as unit in emc1
[00:11:06] <Jacky^> nfact, it is
[00:11:08] <robin_sz> I had to use inches and then select mm as unit in program
[00:11:23] <Jacky^> right..
[00:11:36] <robin_sz> remember, when you sleect mm as unit ...
[00:11:41] <robin_sz> max velocity,
[00:11:43] <robin_sz> accel
[00:11:46] <robin_sz> all that ..
[00:11:49] <robin_sz> they are in mm too
[00:11:59] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:12:32] <xet7> Hmm, display is distorted, doesn't show OpenGL properly
[00:12:49] <robin_sz> the bug is usually only a problem when using very low number of steps per mm
[00:12:55] <robin_sz> like 20 or less
[00:13:00] <robin_sz> or 50 or less
[00:13:40] <robin_sz> xet7: have you run gears to check your open gl install?
[00:13:52] <xet7> I'll try
[00:14:18] <xet7> what was the command name?
[00:14:41] <robin_sz> mmm, gears? I forgot .. wait ..
[00:15:10] <xet7> gxlgears found it
[00:15:25] <robin_sz> k
[00:15:54] <xet7> 81 frames in 5.0 seconds = 16.200 FPS
[00:16:23] <robin_sz> bit slow, but not disastorous
[00:16:50] <robin_sz> alex_joni is the man to speak to about axis if I remember right
[00:16:57] <robin_sz> or was it cradek?
[00:17:01] <robin_sz> sigh .. brain
[00:17:03] <robin_sz> dead
[00:17:09] <cradek> it's me, I admit
[00:17:15] <robin_sz> its him ..!
[00:17:17] <robin_sz> he admits it
[00:17:22] <cradek> but don't tell anyone
[00:17:24] <cradek> shhhh
[00:17:28] <robin_sz> :)
[00:17:37] <cradek> actually when it's not working right, I say jepler is the expert
[00:17:45] <robin_sz> hehe :)
[00:17:54] <cradek> if we're taking credit for a job well done, though, that's where my skills shine through
[00:18:04] <cradek> so which is this?
[00:18:15] <robin_sz> * robin_sz points at xet7
[00:18:22] <robin_sz> blame him
[00:18:28] <cradek> you know, jepler's the real expert
[00:18:53] <xet7> Why are menus dimmed, File/Open/Reload, and all of Program menu?
[00:19:01] <xet7> I can't select from it
[00:19:08] <cradek> are you in estop?
[00:19:13] <xet7> but keyboard shortcuts work
[00:19:14] <xet7> meybe
[00:19:17] <cradek> someone else reported this, but I forget who
[00:19:49] <robin_sz> wasnt this something alex was trying to fix?
[00:19:56] <cradek> not sure
[00:19:58] <robin_sz> or anonimasu?
[00:20:01] <cradek> open is not greyed out in estop for me
[00:20:29] <cradek> xet7: which emc did you end up using?
[00:20:48] <cradek> problem #2: when i run on the console, the file dialog menu entries
[00:20:48] <cradek> are greyed out. the keyboard shortcut 'o' works, however, to open
[00:20:49] <cradek> a file. any ideas?
[00:20:55] <cradek> Paul Fox, 3 Aug 2005
[00:21:01] <cradek> he is using emc2
[00:22:05] <xet7> emc1, Paul's newest deb updates from his mirror, debs copied from laptop because Paul's mirror didn't work anymore, updates to emc1
[00:22:34] <cradek> ugh, I have no way of running that code then
[00:23:16] <robin_sz> i wonder if he has calmed down yet?
[00:23:34] <cradek> calmed down?
[00:23:38] <robin_sz> paul
[00:23:50] <cradek> % TZ=UTC date
[00:23:50] <cradek> Mon Aug 22 23:27:26 UTC 2005
[00:23:59] <cradek> I'm pretty calm at that time of night usually
[00:24:10] <robin_sz> I said someting about "you could try goats blood and chicken bones" and he spat his dummy and stomped off ...
[00:25:04] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[00:25:15] <robin_sz> I thought goats blood and voodoo was the accepted method of getting EMC to work in extremis ...
[00:25:18] <robin_sz> never failed for me
[00:25:33] <robin_sz> sometimes it needs more than one goat though
[00:26:03] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[00:26:24] <cradek> I updated to the latest axis and I do not have the problem with greyed out menus
[00:26:37] <robin_sz> actually, I must get some more goats in to sacrifice ... it seems openVPN needs the same treatment
[00:26:45] <cradek> let me see if I can manage to buildemc2
[00:30:23] <cradek> running emc2/head and axis/head I have working menus.
[00:32:31] <robin_sz> coo .. that was a quick and easy build
[00:32:49] <robin_sz> some things are going right then
[00:33:02] <cradek> robin_sz: a simple cvs up - I went through all the necessary pain earlier.
[00:33:09] <robin_sz> right
[00:33:25] <robin_sz> OK, my wife demands I go to bed
[00:33:35] <cradek> I hope you're in a different timezone then
[00:33:48] <robin_sz> 12:30 here
[00:33:49] <robin_sz> UK
[00:33:54] <cradek> aha
[00:33:56] <cradek> goodnight then
[00:33:59] <robin_sz> night
[00:38:31] <CIA-9> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: clean up printf droppings
[00:40:38] <xet7> screenshot: http://digival.freezope.org/snapshot.png
[00:42:15] <cradek> looks like the gl part is working right!
[00:42:22] <xet7> ok
[00:42:32] <cradek> "active g-codes" are very wrong too
[00:43:25] <xet7> it doesn't start to run program when I press r
[00:43:39] <cradek> turn up the feed override
[00:43:43] <cradek> you have it set to 0
[00:43:44] <_AchiestDragon> _AchiestDragon is now known as AchiestDragon
[00:44:09] <cradek> these are paul's binary packages - you did not compile anything, right?
[00:44:18] <xet7> right
[00:44:27] <cradek> well, it's very broken
[00:45:03] <xet7> ok, I'll compile
[00:45:22] <cradek> it is also confused about whether a file is loaded (see how it says "No file" in the titlebar)
[00:46:18] <Jacky^> ouch :\
[00:47:03] <cradek> I think the stat module is not working.
[00:47:15] <Jacky^> onboard clocking via Ic3 can be disabled by driving input GATE to low..
[00:47:25] <Jacky^> and how i can do it ?
[00:47:42] <cradek> Jacky^: I don't understand
[00:47:54] <Jacky^> i'm too :(((
[00:48:14] <Jacky^> how to drive an inpute gate to low ?
[00:48:25] <cradek> hook it to ground
[00:48:32] <cradek> what kind of input?
[00:49:06] <cradek> maybe IC3 has a pin called GATE?
[00:49:12] <cradek> if so, it means to wire that pin to ground
[00:49:37] <Jacky^> cradek: i build this circuit: http://www.yty.net/cnc/Steppermotordriver.pdf
[00:49:46] <Jacky^> it is driving me crazy :\
[00:50:10] <cradek> let me look
[00:50:11] <Jacky^> can't understand how it work
[00:51:57] <Jacky^> I don't want to use onboard clock IC, and i would switch half-full mode ..
[00:52:41] <cradek> you do not want to use IC3
[00:53:02] <Jacky^> no, i no need it
[00:53:04] <cradek> IC3 generates STEP pulses in an application where the motor is supposed to always turn
[00:53:27] <Jacky^> yeah, without connect any PC or software
[00:53:32] <cradek> right
[00:53:39] <cradek> so ignore IC3
[00:53:42] <Jacky^> but, how to switch half/full ?
[00:53:51] <cradek> the H/F input
[00:54:12] <Jacky^> it is 5V in normal state
[00:54:17] <cradek> yes
[00:54:25] <cradek> it looks like that's half step mode
[00:54:45] <Jacky^> that okay
[00:54:48] <AchiestDragon> the - above the signal indicates that you take that input to ground for that so for half its unconnected and for full its to ground
[00:54:51] <Jacky^> but how can i change it ?
[00:55:09] <cradek> wire the H/F input to ground
[00:55:27] <Jacky^> whitout any resistor between ?
[00:55:29] <cradek> I think the L297 has several full step modes, and you should read the L297 datasheet to make sure you know how to get the one you want
[00:55:52] <Jacky^> the strange thing is,
[00:56:01] <Jacky^> i've 2 other controller
[00:56:14] <Jacky^> i bought in kit
[00:56:24] <Jacky^> the work in reversed mode
[00:56:28] <AchiestDragon> the resistors r4 to r9 are pul up resistors so thay put that pin to a logic 1 if no other input
[00:56:31] <Jacky^> normal mode 0
[00:57:34] <cradek> maybe the motor is wired backwards
[00:58:01] <Jacky^> probably too
[00:58:37] <Jacky^> but i would like to know how these inputs can be switched
[00:58:52] <cradek> which inputs? H/F?
[00:58:55] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:59:14] <cradek> just place a jumper from H/F to ground (marked 0 on the schematic)
[00:59:45] <cradek> in my experience, half step mode works much better than any of the full step modes.
[01:00:29] <Jacky^> cradek: you mean JP1 ?
[01:00:57] <cradek> no
[01:01:00] <Jacky^> ah ok..
[01:01:02] <cradek> well I don't know what that does
[01:01:56] <Jacky^> aniway grounding HF input should work
[01:02:02] <cradek> see the input marked H/F on the edge of the board? solder a wire from there to ground (marked 0)
[01:02:09] <cradek> yes
[01:02:12] <Jacky^> ok
[01:02:17] <Jacky^> i'm going to try ..
[01:03:59] <cradek> JP1 controls how the chopper works
[01:04:39] <cradek> you should read the L297 datasheet
[01:05:06] <cradek> http://www.alltronics.com/download/1334.pdf
[01:05:41] <Jacky^> cradek: thanks a lot
[01:05:46] <Jacky^> it work
[01:05:50] <cradek> welcome
[01:06:24] <Jacky^> i was tryng connecting +5V to HF input
[01:06:26] <Jacky^> :\
[01:06:36] <cradek> I see
[01:06:49] <cradek> that would have no effect because H/F is already pulled up to 5V through the resistor
[01:07:02] <Jacky^> right
[01:07:25] <cradek> the bar over the F means to get F you make the signal low (ground)
[01:07:34] <cradek> the bar means "active low"
[01:07:50] <Jacky^> thats ok now :)
[01:08:26] <Jacky^> now, switching i get 2 different speed
[01:08:35] <cradek> right
[01:08:37] <Jacky^> lowest should be half right ?
[01:08:42] <cradek> yes
[01:08:52] <cradek> be aware that there are different full step modes
[01:09:22] <Jacky^> ah..
[01:09:32] <Jacky^> interesting
[01:09:42] <cradek> you get different modes depending on when you bring low H/F
[01:09:49] <cradek> see the datasheet for details
[01:10:09] <Jacky^> ok
[01:10:23] <Jacky^> i want also check how the motors are wired
[01:10:35] <Jacky^> how was sayng robin_sz
[01:11:31] <Jacky^> so, finally, in the next days i will try the new router :)
[01:11:46] <Jacky^> some work on wood..
[01:11:48] <cradek> great
[01:13:06] <Jacky^> I halted all my jobs, because i was burning all bits
[01:13:24] <Jacky^> too slow feedrate
[01:15:59] <xet7> good night
[02:04:42] <Jacky^> Gnight
[21:16:43] <AchiestDragon> well if i have any problems with it its going to get bigger steppers , and a new controler is on the cards anyway
[21:17:31] <robin_sz> well, if you do buy modern steppers (which you should) yo ucant use them with that card
[21:18:31] <robin_sz> modern, low inductance steppers drop only 2 to 3 volts
[21:19:52] <robin_sz> you are in the UK?
[21:20:18] <AchiestDragon> me yes , like you
[21:20:24] <robin_sz> which part?
[21:20:31] <AchiestDragon> wales
[21:20:39] <robin_sz> north, south?
[21:20:42] <robin_sz> middle?
[21:20:46] <AchiestDragon> north
[21:21:04] <AchiestDragon> almost on the border
[21:21:11] <robin_sz> cheshire?
[21:21:22] <robin_sz> or nearer shrewsbury?
[21:21:50] <AchiestDragon> chirk , between wrexham and shrewsbury , you ?
[21:22:04] <robin_sz> nr bridgnorth
[21:22:21] <robin_sz> you are where the biscuit factory is then?
[21:22:36] <AchiestDragon> chocolate factory
[21:22:49] <robin_sz> always smells .. sweet up there
[21:23:06] <AchiestDragon> and kronospan the chipboard manufacturer
[21:23:12] <robin_sz> ah yes
[21:23:47] <robin_sz> well, if yo uget bored and want to play with some real motors let me know ...
[21:24:02] <robin_sz> or if you want any steel laser cut, pressed, powder coated
[21:24:03] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ sluuurp :P
[21:24:13] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ arf arf.. bau !
[21:24:40] <AchiestDragon> k
[21:24:54] <robin_sz> like motor mount plates or anyting like that
[21:25:37] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ loves chocolate
[21:26:21] <robin_sz> I think its more industrial grade mas sproduced chocolate than high quality Italian hand made chocolate
[21:26:34] <robin_sz> McVities is it?>
[21:26:42] <AchiestDragon> cadburies
[21:26:45] <robin_sz> ahh
[21:26:49] <robin_sz> OK, not bad then
[21:26:56] <robin_sz> I thought thta was in Birmingham
[21:26:57] <Jacky^> robin_sz: true, in some place
[21:27:14] <Jacky^> swizerland should be a nice place for chocolate
[21:28:03] <robin_sz> cadburies is just good standard consumer chocolate .. not a bad brand at all
[21:28:35] <AchiestDragon> not as bitter as some of the continental choc
[21:28:39] <robin_sz> mostly tastier than the chipboard factory next door
[21:28:57] <AchiestDragon> and smells better :)
[21:29:03] <robin_sz> to be honest, I thnk I would go off it if I had to smell it each day
[21:29:53] <robin_sz> I used to drive through there a lot when going to north wales for climbing at a weekend
[21:30:02] <AchiestDragon> it depends on the wind direction so dont get the smell every day , thankfully ,
[21:30:38] <robin_sz> kidderminster is near here, that a sugar beet plant .. now, that smelled
[21:31:44] <robin_sz> right, I must go and weld something ... sigh
[22:13:22] <Jymmm> weird... jog the axis about 12 inches, tell it to goto 0, and dead on. Can't even muck with it in respect to backlash.
[22:18:20] <Jacky^> Jymmm: what is ? a new machine ?
[22:27:25] <Yuga> Jymmm... where those photo's?
[22:34:28] <Jymmm> Yuga what photos?
[22:34:37] <Yuga> of your machine
[22:34:39] <Jymmm> Jacky^ the same machine
[22:35:20] <Yuga> ok... so where the pic's?
[22:35:44] <Jymmm> i gave you the link a long time ago
[22:36:02] <Yuga> and the link was?
[22:36:23] <Jymmm> in your cache!
[22:36:39] <Yuga> dont keep my cache forever
[22:37:46] <Jymmm> http://www.k2cnc.com/Picture/KS-2525gallery/index.htm
[22:38:02] <Jymmm> It's no longer on theri main website as 'frame only'.
[22:38:30] <Jymmm> Yuga : http://www.k2cnc.com/Picture/KS-2525gallery/index.htm
[22:39:15] <Jymmm> Yuga: Basically, what I have is the 3925 in a 2525 size
[22:41:41] <AchiestDragon> thats one nice machine
[22:42:33] <Jymmm> thanks.... it's been a REAL headache and STILL not up to par yet.
[22:42:44] <Jymmm> I doubt I would do it again.
[22:45:42] <Yuga> Jymmm... there stuff look's sooo nice. but i have read a couple of bad reviews
[22:46:08] <Jymmm> Yuga: I hear ya... their BIGGEST problem is lack of QA.
[22:46:28] <Jymmm> just stupid little mistakes and ***LOTS**** of them.
[22:46:35] <Yuga> was thinking of buying one till i started reading th coments :)
[22:46:46] <Yuga> descided to build my own...
[22:47:11] <Jymmm> Yuga Heh, my idea is to use this to build others =)
[22:47:22] <Yuga> lol
[22:47:27] <Yuga> thats what i told my gf
[22:47:48] <Yuga> it's kinda stupid if u think of it. u are building a machine that can be used to build its self :)
[22:48:13] <Jymmm> procreation
[22:48:22] <Jymmm> everyone's doin it
[22:49:26] <Jymmm> actually... these are much closer to my machine (less the tabletop)
[22:49:27] <Jymmm> http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/Pictures/cat.asp?iCat=651&iChannel=3&nChannel=Pictures
[22:49:52] <Jymmm> mine has no energychain or limit switches from them.
[22:53:05] <Yuga> and what u think the the linear rails they are using?
[22:53:11] <Yuga> planning on doing mine that way
[22:53:22] <Jymmm> Yuga the roller skates?
[22:53:28] <Yuga> yep
[22:53:29] <Jacky^> Jymmm: nice machine
[22:53:40] <Jacky^> limit switches are a crap..
[22:53:52] <Jacky^> you can add it how you want
[22:54:00] <Yuga> how much u pay for it Jymmm?
[22:54:52] <Yuga> http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/Pictures/detail.asp?iData=43&iCat=651&iChannel=3&nChannel=Pictures <--- what steppers they using? they look huge!
[22:57:19] <Jymmm> Yuga See, you're not listening to me... I said mine is like a 3925 but in a 2525 size.
[22:58:09] <Jymmm> I no longer have those skate bearing rails and acme scrrews, I have linear rails and thomson ball screws on XY axis
[22:58:28] <Jymmm> Z is still acme thread, but linear rails
[23:00:16] <Yuga> aaahhh
[23:00:28] <Yuga> well i am planning on using the bearings
[23:00:41] <Jacky^> Yuga: :)
[23:00:50] <Yuga> ?
[23:00:56] <Jacky^> will you share your plan ? :P
[23:01:14] <Jacky^> it's open source ?
[23:01:22] <Yuga> will share my plan when it's finnished :)
[23:01:30] <Yuga> currently it is still changing every day
[23:01:38] <Yuga> but remember... it's HUGE!
[23:01:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm will share his plans if you'll share your money.
[23:01:49] <Yuga> 2x3m cutting surface
[23:01:59] <Jacky^> Yuga: cool :)
[23:02:51] <Yuga> but let me build it first and c if it blow's up :P
[23:03:05] <Jymmm> Yuga if not, I'll blow it up for ya!
[23:03:14] <Yuga> lol
[23:03:17] <Yuga> u sound good at that
[23:03:47] <Jymmm> I'd go for my pyrotech license if it would be worthwhile.
[23:08:03] <Yuga> well i am not planning on blowing it up.. i just think it's one of those things that are going to happen :P
[23:08:08] <Jacky^> Yuga: how much, estimated cost of machine youre building ?
[23:08:31] <Jacky^> let see if i can afford it :P
[23:08:44] <Yuga> trying to keep it under 25ooo rand
[23:09:25] <Yuga> 3846.1538461538461538461538461538 $
[23:09:43] <Yuga> but i have the pc... and all the software
[23:09:54] <Yuga> and getting some of the frame donated :)
[23:09:57] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:10:03] <Jacky^> nice
[23:10:29] <Yuga> well we will c when it get's started
[23:10:41] <Yuga> * Yuga isnt rushing it... got so much on my plate right now
[23:10:42] <Jacky^> 3 mt ?
[23:10:51] <Yuga> yep 3mx2m
[23:10:57] <Jacky^> mmmhh
[23:11:06] <Jacky^> good luck !
[23:11:18] <Jacky^> big machine = big problem :\
[23:11:19] <Yuga> lol... dont need luck
[23:11:25] <Yuga> need a mirical :)
[23:11:31] <Jacky^> oh.. I hope, for you
[23:11:34] <Jacky^> lol
[23:12:07] <Jacky^> i know, 1 mt machine (what i want to build) should be quite simple..
[23:12:10] <Yuga> naa... dont think it will be that bad... my biggest worrie is aligning the bed
[23:12:18] <Jacky^> 3 mt it's hard
[23:13:17] <Yuga> dont c y it should be more difficult
[23:13:28] <Yuga> pretty much the same thing with bigger rails
[23:15:13] <Jacky^> in a big machine, the issues are multiplies..
[23:15:31] <Yuga> ble
[23:15:36] <Yuga> agg well i am off to bed
[23:15:40] <Yuga> night all u wierd ppl
[23:16:09] <Jacky^> take cure of the plan
[23:16:18] <Jacky^> Yuga: night
[23:16:52] <Jymmm> gnight
[23:18:42] <Jacky^> Jymmm: can i tell you a personal question ? (just curious)
[23:19:41] <Jymmm> maybe =)
[23:19:47] <Jacky^> you use emc for job or just for hobby ?
[23:20:11] <Jymmm> Trying to start a business
[23:20:28] <Jacky^> i'm too ..
[23:20:40] <Jacky^> at least, it would be the idea
[23:21:49] <Jacky^> i suppose it's difficult bussines there too ..
[23:23:05] <Jacky^> high cost of machines seem to be the hard limit
[23:23:14] <Jymmm> anywhere for that matter =)
[23:23:46] <Jymmm> Well, machines are just capital. It's sales and marketing that one needs to focus on.
[23:24:08] <Jacky^> yeah..
[23:25:21] <Jacky^> Jymmm: i like this, for ex. : http://www.propellers.it/
[23:25:28] <Jacky^> great idea
[23:26:19] <Jacky^> but also great competence
[23:26:30] <Jacky^> in a specific sector..
[23:33:17] <anonimasu> hmm
[23:33:34] <Jacky^> anonimasu: :P
[23:33:47] <Jacky^> yours is a job right ?
[23:33:47] <anonimasu> ^_^
[23:33:54] <anonimasu> ?
[23:34:03] <Jacky^> yeah.. i know
[23:34:32] <Jacky^> we was tallking about business with emc
[23:34:43] <Jacky^> cnc machines
[23:34:50] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:35:14] <anonimasu> my machine is just a hobby, although when I have the machine in order 90% of the stuff I do on it is work related
[23:36:59] <Jacky^> :)
[23:38:49] <Jacky^> what are jobs more requested ?
[23:38:56] <Jacky^> wood, metal ?
[23:39:21] <anonimasu> actually the stuff I do is in-house prototyping for work..
[23:39:56] <Jacky^> prototyping, cool
[23:41:22] <anonimasu> I dont really care for customer work.. as that
[23:41:41] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:42:18] <anonimasu> cant really compete with the specs of the 40 000eur machines..
[23:43:05] <Jacky^> thats hard..
[23:43:16] <anonimasu> or well, cant/dont care about it..
[23:45:23] <anonimasu> if I wanted to make money I would have bought a used cnc machine..
[23:45:49] <Jacky^> so, you have another job too ..
[23:46:51] <anonimasu> ofcourse
[23:48:16] <Jacky^> what's your ideal machine if you really would make money ?
[23:48:37] <Jacky^> laser machine ?
[23:51:41] <anonimasu> actually, it's a cnc ´┐Żathe
[23:51:42] <anonimasu> lathe
[23:52:47] <anonimasu> laser, not really
[23:52:55] <Jacky^> i know, youre working on lathe
[23:53:08] <anonimasu> oh, I would buy a used cnc lathe..
[23:53:33] <Jacky^> ebay seem offer some nice machine
[23:53:42] <anonimasu> calculate on shipping
[23:53:45] <anonimasu> :)
[23:53:51] <anonimasu> they end up expensive that way :/
[23:53:51] <Jacky^> right :\
[23:54:15] <Jacky^> my cousin some year ago
[23:54:18] <anonimasu> but well, as cnc is a hobby for me I dont care for making money off it..
[23:54:29] <Jacky^> bought many used machines
[23:54:40] <Jacky^> in north italy
[23:54:42] <anonimasu> doing stuff that I think is fun is more important..
[23:55:12] <Jacky^> what are these stuff ? O-o
[23:55:34] <Jacky^> are you planning a new motor ? :D
[23:55:42] <anonimasu> nope
[23:55:53] <Jacky^> car motor i mean..
[23:55:58] <anonimasu> right now I work 10 hours a day :)
[23:56:06] <Jacky^> I see
[23:56:42] <anonimasu> nah, I like machining
[23:56:53] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:56:58] <anonimasu> but once it turns into a "have" to make parts.. it's not as fun
[23:57:24] <Jacky^> I think for hobby, 3-6 k euro can be ok
[23:57:35] <Jacky^> up this can't be an hobby ..
[23:57:43] <anonimasu> lol
[23:57:51] <anonimasu> you've got it the wrong way
[23:58:13] <Jacky^> not sure
[23:58:15] <Jacky^> :)
[23:58:53] <anonimasu> hobbies are what's allowed to cost.. :)
[23:59:26] <Jacky^> yeah
[23:59:46] <anonimasu> the reason I said I'd buy a machine for production work is because hobby machines isnt built for that kind of stuff.