#emc | Logs for 2005-08-15

[00:00:03] <jmkasunich> 18.84mm / 2000 = 0.0094 mm per step
[00:00:04] <Yuga> well that isnt to bad?
[00:00:28] <Yuga> could maybe take the gear ratio to 4 to 1?
[00:00:45] <jmkasunich> actually, the mm per count isn't too bad
[00:01:02] <jmkasunich> lets look at torque now
[00:01:12] <jmkasunich> any idea how much cutting force you will need?
[00:01:41] <Yuga> not a clue... dont know how u would figure that out?
[00:01:58] <jmkasunich> you've run a wood router manually, right?
[00:02:14] <Yuga> yep
[00:02:14] <jmkasunich> actually, lets go from the other direction
[00:02:36] <jmkasunich> lets assume you have a 500oz-in NEMA 34 stepper - not too hard to find
[00:02:49] <jmkasunich> (you can get as much as 1200 oz-in, but they are more expensive)
[00:02:57] <Jacky^> Yuga: i like the first machine on this website: http://www.ronchinimassimo.com/feedback.htm
[00:02:59] <Yuga> lol... was looking at a 1200 oz-in one
[00:03:11] <jmkasunich> ok, lets assume 1200
[00:03:17] <Jacky^> for wood, big area should be nice
[00:03:20] <Yuga> http://www.campbelldesigns.com/stepper-motors.php <--- bottom stepper
[00:03:59] <Yuga> yes Jacky^... that's what i need
[00:04:04] <Yuga> Jacky^... send me one :P
[00:04:11] <Jacky^> ghghg
[00:04:21] <Jacky^> i like the project
[00:04:37] <Jacky^> the website i pasted have no price's list..
[00:04:48] <Jacky^> this sound to me very strange
[00:04:51] <jmkasunich> 1200 oz-in *25.4 = 30480 oz-mm / 16 = 1905 lb-mm
[00:04:58] <jmkasunich> sorry about mixed units
[00:05:09] <jmkasunich> oz-in to metric is a messy conversion
[00:05:23] <Yuga> jmkasunich... that's like a half a ton of pressure.. think it should be enough :)
[00:05:48] <jmkasunich> anyway, with a 9mm radius on your pinion, you get 1905 lb-mm / 9mm = 211 lbs
[00:06:33] <jmkasunich> sounds like plenty to me (but not a half ton - gotta account for the size of the pinion)
[00:06:49] <jmkasunich> that is assuming 1:1 gearing, not 3:1
[00:07:02] <jmkasunich> now speed:
[00:07:08] <Yuga> didnt think of the pinion
[00:07:34] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ goes to sleep
[00:07:44] <alex_joni_> night guys
[00:07:46] <Jacky^> alex_joni_: night
[00:07:47] <jmkasunich> still assuming 1:1, we're back to 56.54mm per rev, or 0.0287mm per microstep
[00:07:51] <jmkasunich> night alex
[00:07:53] <Jymmm> nite alex_joni_
[00:07:55] <alex_joni_> jmkasunich: thanks for the tips ;)
[00:08:03] <Yuga> cheerz alex_joni_
[00:08:05] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[00:08:28] <Yuga> ok... so jmkasunich... u say it's going to be about 211lb's of pressure?
[00:08:45] <jmkasunich> approx - I'm neglecting friction and such
[00:09:11] <Yuga> ok... so what next?
[00:09:12] <jmkasunich> speed:
[00:09:28] <jmkasunich> you should be able to get about 10000-20000 microsteps per second
[00:09:33] <jmkasunich> start with 10000
[00:10:07] <Yuga> cool
[00:10:28] <jmkasunich> if each microstep is 0.0287mm, then top speed is 0.0287 * 10000 = 287mm/sec
[00:10:43] <jmkasunich> times 60 is 16.9m/min
[00:10:52] <jmkasunich> that is pretty darned fast
[00:11:00] <jmkasunich> so you could gear down
[00:11:19] <Yuga> guessing it would be better to gear down more
[00:11:27] <Yuga> like 4:1
[00:11:28] <jmkasunich> 2:1 would mean step size is about 0.014mm, max force is about 400 lbs, and max speed about 8m/min
[00:11:47] <jmkasunich> note - with steppers, max force is stall force, you don't want to use more than about half of that
[00:12:18] <jmkasunich> 3:1 would give you 0.009mm steps, 600 lbs stall force, and ~5 m/min
[00:12:42] <jmkasunich> but you need to make sure the gears cah handle 600 lbs without stripping
[00:13:03] <Yuga> ok... so what u recon i should make it? dont think u realy need 600lb's?
[00:13:04] <jmkasunich> anyway, you see that you can get pretty decent performance with steppers - I don't think you need servos
[00:13:24] <jmkasunich> if you use cheaper 600oz-in steppers, the force would be about half
[00:13:57] <jmkasunich> I can't tell you what to do, I can only tell you how to work the numbers\
[00:14:20] <jmkasunich> you need to figure out for yourself what cutting forces you expect, what resolution you need, and what speed you want
[00:14:24] <Yuga> jmkasunich.. yes... but i dont think i need 600lb's of force?
[00:14:51] <jmkasunich> first, you don't get 600 lbs usable force, at 600 lbs the motor will stall and lose steps
[00:14:57] <Yuga> and it's not worth buying 600oz steppers cause the once 2 times that force are only like40$ cheaper
[00:15:14] <jmkasunich> friction, inertia, and other things will take some of it, and you always need a safety margin
[00:15:25] <Yuga> jmkasunich... i know u cant tell me what to do... but what would u recomend?
[00:15:33] <Yuga> 3:1 gear ratio?
[00:15:34] <jmkasunich> I would assume 50%, so 3:1 gearing would give you about 300 lbs usable
[00:15:36] <Yuga> or 2:1?
[00:15:53] <jmkasunich> I know from running a manual wood rouger that the forces are much less than 300 lbs in wood
[00:17:02] <jmkasunich> now look at resolution - what kind of work are you doing - rough hogging work, precision jointery, or tiny engraving?
[00:17:46] <Yuga> pretty much going to be used for making speaker cab's
[00:17:54] <Yuga> but would like to do some engraving
[00:17:56] <jmkasunich> 3:1 gives you about 0.009mm per microstep, probalby about 0.05mm to 0.10mm usable accuracy
[00:19:02] <jmkasunich> final thing is speed
[00:19:15] <jmkasunich> 3:1 gives you about 5.5m/min speed
[00:19:27] <jmkasunich> or 30 seconds to make a 2.5m long cut
[00:19:36] <Yuga> well that's more than fast enough for me :)
[00:19:51] <jmkasunich> have you made speaker cabinets with a manual wood router? can the router cut that fast?
[00:20:13] <Yuga> it's not the cutting speed... it's the precision
[00:20:19] <Jacky^> uhmm
[00:20:27] <Yuga> and not all speaker boxes are square :)
[00:20:30] <jmkasunich> ok then... 2:1 would be faster, but less precise
[00:20:40] <jmkasunich> and not as strong
[00:20:52] <Jacky^> Yuga: i'm burning all bits..
[00:21:04] <Jacky^> speed is important on wood
[00:21:14] <Yuga> Jacky^... how fast u cut?
[00:21:27] <Jymmm> Jacky^ well get more than 11IPM =)
[00:21:27] <Yuga> well the gear ratio is easy to change so i dont mind changing it if i have to :P
[00:21:28] <jmkasunich> 4:1 would be slower, stronger, and maybe more precise (only maybe, because you may be limited by the R&Pm not the step size)
[00:22:09] <Jacky^> Yuga: mine actually machine its a toy.. but take a look here: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/CNC_tooling_Whats_the_best.html
[00:22:18] <Jacky^> you'll understand
[00:22:19] <jmkasunich> I would think 2:1 or 3:1 is about right, and 1200oz-in steppers are plenty, no servos needed
[00:22:52] <Yuga> jmkasunich... what speed do most wood routers cut at?
[00:22:58] <Yuga> i am guessing 200ipm?
[00:23:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : "no servos needed" - When would you suggest servos be used (generically I mean)?
[00:23:07] <jmkasunich> damned if I know, I'm an engineer, not a carpenter
[00:23:08] <Jacky^> Yuga: wich wood will you use for speakers cab ?
[00:23:32] <Yuga> ply wood
[00:23:36] <jmkasunich> when steppers aren't good enough (or when you find a batch of servo motors and drives at a great price)
[00:24:12] <Yuga> have always been worried about loosing steps with steppers
[00:24:26] <Jymmm> jmkasunich lol, well the later is implied =) But when are steppers not good enough (considering almost unlimted torques rated steppers are available)
[00:25:07] <jmkasunich> stepper torque drops off with speed (oops, a factor which I completely ignored just now)
[00:25:17] <Yuga> lol
[00:25:18] <jmkasunich> servos on the other hand like high speed
[00:25:36] <Yuga> jmkasunich... so the 10000 step's wouldnt be to fast?
[00:25:36] <jmkasunich> OK, take that 50% torque derating and turn it to 75%
[00:25:58] <jmkasunich> that means you'll get perhaps 150 lbs with 3:1, 100 lbs with 2:1
[00:26:19] <jmkasunich> Yuga - there are a lot of factors that go into top speed
[00:26:51] <jmkasunich> I'm assuming you are using good drives like Gecko or Rutex, and that the drives and especially the power supply are properly matched to the motors
[00:27:37] <Yuga> jmkasunich.. the site that i was planning on getting the motors from recomend geckodrives
[00:27:42] <Yuga> so that's what i am using
[00:28:16] <jmkasunich> you should read and understand there stepper motor white paper
[00:28:21] <jmkasunich> their
[00:28:48] <Yuga> there isnt a paper on there stepper
[00:29:14] <Jacky^> Jymmm: should the new nema34 be a good choice ?
[00:29:21] <Jacky^> ops jmkasunich
[00:29:49] <Jacky^> i'm also interesting in wood cut
[00:30:04] <Yuga> how big's your machine Jacky^?
[00:30:16] <Jacky^> 1 mt x 80
[00:30:28] <Jacky^> 80 cm..
[00:30:29] <Yuga> hehe... almost cute it's so small :P
[00:30:31] <Yuga> hehe
[00:30:39] <jmkasunich> Yuga: go to www.geckodrive.com, click support, scroll down
[00:30:50] <jmkasunich> "The Step Motor Basics White Paper"
[00:30:59] <Jacky^> how much are big yours speakers ? O_o
[00:31:03] <Jacky^> doh
[00:31:07] <jmkasunich> 7537740835
[00:31:09] <jmkasunich> oops
[00:31:15] <Jacky^> the bigger i know are lectrovoice made in us
[00:31:27] <Jacky^> electrovoice*
[00:31:28] <jmkasunich> http://www.geckodrive.com/ycom/documents/C163R21_step_motor_white_paper.pdf
[00:32:06] <Jacky^> woofer 1 mt diameter :D
[00:32:25] <Jacky^> i will eard you from here hehe..
[00:32:30] <Yuga> using 18" sub's
[00:32:45] <Jacky^> separates box ?
[00:33:11] <Yuga> separates box ??
[00:33:23] <Jacky^> all speakers in the same cabinet ?
[00:33:29] <Yuga> nooo
[00:33:33] <Jacky^> sub+woofer+mid+tw ?
[00:33:40] <Yuga> nopes
[00:33:44] <Jacky^> ah..
[00:33:45] <Yuga> all in seperate boxes
[00:33:47] <jmkasunich> Yuga: looks like the pros are running up to 1000ipm (25m/min)
[00:33:55] <jmkasunich> but they also have 10HP spindle motors ;-)
[00:34:06] <Yuga> jmkasunich... i'm no pro... just a poor speakerbox maker :)
[00:34:21] <Yuga> and i am only goint to mount a normal wood router to my machine
[00:34:24] <Jacky^> Yuga: whick speakers ?
[00:34:36] <Yuga> Jacky^... run a pure RCF system
[00:34:44] <jmkasunich> I would go 2:1 or 3:1 (or maybe compromize 2.5:1) with 1200oz-in NEMA34 steppers, Geckos, and a properly matched power supply
[00:34:45] <Jacky^> bleah :s
[00:34:48] <Yuga> and crown amps
[00:35:00] <Jacky^> RCF from italy..
[00:35:07] <Jacky^> bad !
[00:35:16] <Yuga> jmkasunich... what powersupply would u recomend? voltages and amp's
[00:35:23] <Yuga> rcf bad speakers?
[00:35:28] <Jacky^> sure
[00:35:36] <Yuga> lol... nice try
[00:35:39] <jmkasunich> read the white paper... it needs to be matched to the motor
[00:35:43] <Yuga> would take them over jbl any time :)
[00:35:48] <Jacky^> Yuga: try dynaudio
[00:35:55] <Jacky^> from germany
[00:36:05] <Jacky^> and you'll see
[00:36:11] <Yuga> Jacky^... give me a website :)
[00:36:22] <Jacky^> try midrange focal
[00:36:25] <Jacky^> :))
[00:36:29] <Yuga> jmkasunich.. i heard something about using high voltages cause the stepper will work faster?
[00:36:58] <jmkasunich> yes - higher voltage helps the stepper maintain high torque at high speed
[00:37:12] <jmkasunich> voltage too low and the torque falls off very fast as you speed up
[00:37:21] <jmkasunich> voltage to high and you overheat the motors
[00:37:41] <jmkasunich> the whitepaper explains (better than I can) how to pick the right voltage, but you must know the motor specs first
[00:37:44] <Yuga> jmkasunich... what would be to high a voltage?
[00:37:55] <jmkasunich> depends on the motros
[00:37:57] <jmkasunich> motors
[00:38:14] <Yuga> must realy find a pdf on those motors
[00:38:32] <jmkasunich> download the paper, read it, understand it... it is really very will written, and very educational
[00:38:32] <Yuga> Jacky^... so whats the website... or cant they afford one?
[00:38:52] <Jacky^> Yuga: ive some old catalog here
[00:39:01] <Jacky^> years ago i request it
[00:39:06] <Jacky^> @ moment ..
[00:39:10] <Yuga> old catalog's... probibly out of business :)
[00:39:29] <Jacky^> old catalog, not old tecnology..
[00:39:55] <Yuga> jmkasunich... what linear rails would u use?
[00:40:01] <jmkasunich> no idea
[00:40:14] <Yuga> was planning on using precision round bar with linear bearings
[00:40:17] <jmkasunich> I've never built a router - I know about motors and drives, and I can do the math
[00:40:32] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : Mariss white papers are not written for the low browed, It took me a few reads to finally go 'ah I get it' (plus a two hour phoen call to him =)
[00:40:44] <Yuga> lol
[00:40:54] <Yuga> so how the hell am i going to figure it out :P
[00:41:13] <Jymmm> Yuga read it 20 times instead of three =)
[00:41:19] <Yuga> lol
[00:42:01] <Jymmm> got a killer deal on some PCB bits today
[00:42:03] <Jacky^> Yuga: here's some tweeter http://www.speakerbits.com/net/catalogs/cat8.aspx
[00:42:12] <jmkasunich> like it or not, you are designing a machine here.. you need to act like a machine designer
[00:42:19] <jmkasunich> that means read, learn, do the math
[00:42:32] <Jacky^> Yuga: but googling youll find also nice woofer :P
[00:42:35] <Yuga> jmkasunich... was joking
[00:42:57] <jmkasunich> sorry ;-/
[00:43:15] <Yuga> Jacky^... doesnt look like a pa tweeter
[00:43:46] <Jacky^> what ? the price ? :D
[00:43:54] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:43:58] <Yuga> 892$
[00:44:05] <Yuga> it's high-fi stuff
[00:44:09] <Jacky^> i eard this speakers
[00:44:14] <Jacky^> it's another world
[00:44:19] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: I must disagree... granted, I'm not a layman, but I think Mariss's papers are much more accessible to the layman than many other source of documentation
[00:44:25] <Jacky^> with spectral amplifier..
[00:44:58] <Jacky^> i also like focal as midrange, you could try it
[00:45:00] <jmkasunich> you do have to be willing to learn and understand what is going on, rather than simply looking for a cookbook approach
[00:45:35] <Jacky^> Yuga: http://www.focal.tm.fr/
[00:45:56] <Jacky^> rcf suck !
[00:46:01] <Yuga> Jacky^... i run a DJ system
[00:46:19] <Jacky^> no audiophile ?
[00:46:24] <Jacky^> no party :P
[00:46:28] <Yuga> lol
[00:46:34] <Yuga> carry on dreaming
[00:46:38] <Jacky^> :-)
[00:47:32] <Yuga> lol... there big speakers are such a JOKE!!!
[00:47:45] <Yuga> cough... they like tweeters :P
[00:48:12] <Jacky^> hehe..
[00:48:22] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Compared to a mfg's data sheet, yes Mariss are easier to understnad. But, when I read his paper regarding 'mid band resonance' (as an example) I read it, but I didn't get it till he actually explained certian aspects to me on the phone. The paper is written that there is an assumption that the reader is familure with the aspects of stepper motors. So, someone even with a technical skillset just getting into 'steppers' is like being in a foreigh
[00:48:25] <Yuga> my smallest amp would smoke them :)
[00:48:53] <Yuga> thanks for the info jmkasunich...
[00:49:16] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: ok, I'll admit that mid-band resonance is tricky, but that chapter could be skipped by someone doing a machine design
[00:49:45] <jmkasunich> in fact I myself don't really grok mid-band stuff, but I also don't need to know
[00:50:00] <jmkasunich> the rest of the stuff in that paper is really good info though
[00:50:53] <jmkasunich> and BTW - where else would you find a guy who would a) actually answer the phone and talk to you, and b) take the time to explain that
[00:51:00] <jmkasunich> Mariss is a class act IMHO
[00:52:46] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : Right, but that is because geckos compensate for it. Now, when you buy a Xylotex drive, and then experiance the stepper stalling, and wonder if it's the machine, driver, motor, controller, computer, parallel cable, etc. It would really be nice to see a statemnt like "Even the most expensive stepper motor is suseptable to mid band resonace (or stalling).
[00:52:47] <Jymmm> "
[00:55:08] <Jymmm> If I knew then what I know now, I would have just bought geckos from the beginning.
[00:56:12] <jmkasunich> yep ;-)
[00:56:19] <Jacky^> Yuga: i suggest to you build a box like this for the woofer: http://www.royaldevice.com/custom.htm
[00:56:25] <Jacky^> :D
[00:56:31] <jmkasunich> that's why I'm glad to see Yuga going that direction
[00:56:55] <Jymmm> btw anyone know the diameter thats commonly used to do PCB's?
[00:57:46] <Yuga> Jacky^... built one similar to that in a club :)
[00:57:54] <Jacky^> wow :P
[00:58:48] <Jacky^> 60 mt cubes ..
[00:58:53] <Jacky^> crazy :)
[00:59:07] <Yuga> wish they would give the friggin spec's!
[01:00:05] <Yuga> friggin hell that is awsome
[01:00:34] <Jacky^> hehe
[01:00:50] <Yuga> when i say i made one similar... it had 2 subs :P
[01:01:10] <Jacky^> got a pictures ?
[01:01:31] <Yuga> nopes
[01:01:46] <Yuga> was long before the time i got a digi can :P
[01:01:59] <Jacky^> lol
[01:02:55] <Yuga> plz dont tell me that's in some chap's lounge!!!
[01:03:51] <Jacky^> :))
[01:07:23] <Yuga> 110 dB/1W/1 meter sensitivity starting from below 10 Hz focused on the listening position.
[01:07:29] <Yuga> now that is impressive
[01:07:44] <Yuga> considering we cant hear below 25
[01:08:41] <Jacky^> uhmm
[01:08:56] <Jacky^> 22 hz i think
[01:09:28] <Yuga> 22/25... same thing :)
[01:09:32] <Jacky^> depend on the ear used
[01:09:33] <Yuga> glad u can hear it :P
[01:09:40] <Jacky^> a big ear can :P
[01:10:01] <Jacky^> kidding..
[01:10:06] <Jacky^> right :)
[01:10:50] <Yuga> friggin hell... 6.5kwatts in a 6x8m room
[01:10:51] <Yuga> lol
[01:11:01] <Yuga> i use that for a party of 1ooo ppl :)
[01:11:02] <Jacky^> yep
[01:11:35] <Jacky^> i think power is intended as peaks
[01:12:08] <Yuga> well i dont think they ever get to 6.5kwatts
[01:12:16] <Yuga> but if they wanted to they could :P
[01:12:16] <Jacky^> peaks of infarct
[01:13:18] <Jacky^> on low frequency i think could be true..
[01:14:25] <Jacky^> Yuga: tried mdf for the cabs ?
[01:14:37] <Jacky^> it seem to be nice material
[01:15:39] <Yuga> Jacky^... it is better to use
[01:15:45] <Yuga> but not practicle
[01:15:56] <Jymmm> ?!
[01:16:07] <Yuga> it's heavy... and if it gets wet it falls apart
[01:16:09] <Jymmm> plywood is more practicle thatn mdf?
[01:16:18] <Yuga> Jymmm... yep
[01:16:32] <Jymmm> and wood fubars when wet
[01:16:35] <Jymmm> any
[01:16:58] <Yuga> Jymmm... the thing is if mdf gets wet it's compleatly stuffed
[01:16:59] <Jymmm> and 'heavy' is a good thing in speaker boxes - more density
[01:17:02] <Jacky^> for resonance mdf should be better
[01:17:04] <Yuga> and it's ALOT heavyer than mdf
[01:17:19] <Jacky^> yeah
[01:17:20] <Yuga> Jacky^... yep... it is better for the sound
[01:17:32] <Jacky^> I agree
[01:17:32] <Yuga> but isnt as practical
[01:17:40] <Jymmm> well WTH you making speaker boxes out of plywood then?!
[01:17:48] <Jymmm> lol
[01:18:00] <Yuga> currently i have boxes that weigh in at 100kg's
[01:18:06] <Jymmm> a coat of polyurithan works wonders
[01:18:11] <Yuga> probibly be more like 120-130 if it's mdf
[01:18:23] <Yuga> Jymmm... yes.. but it's heavy
[01:18:32] <Jymmm> you are already at 100kg, whats an additional 25?
[01:18:35] <jmkasunich> makes a difference if you have to lug them to gigs...
[01:18:47] <Jymmm> thats what roadies are for!
[01:18:48] <Yuga> and believe it or not speaker boxes get scratched... then water gets in
[01:19:28] <jmkasunich> for every band with roadies, there are 5 that haul their own stuff
[01:19:48] <Yuga> i'm not a band. i'm a dj
[01:20:01] <Yuga> usualy have one chap that helps me out... so weight is a issue
[01:20:11] <jmkasunich> same principle tho, you have to move it yourself
[01:20:20] <Jymmm> Can SSR's be driven DIRECTLY from the parallel port?
[01:20:31] <Yuga> change of subject :P
[01:20:43] <jmkasunich> that is a definite maybe
[01:20:56] <jmkasunich> depends on how much input current they need
[01:21:18] <jmkasunich> if you have a +5v supply, and let the parport pull down to turn on, you can probably do it
[01:21:48] <jmkasunich> parport inputs are similar to the opto on a gecko step or dir pin
[01:21:52] <jmkasunich> same rules will apply
[01:22:12] <jmkasunich> s/parport inputs/SSR inputs/
[01:22:34] <Jymmm> so I should still use a opto isolatation and maybe a driver too?
[01:22:48] <jmkasunich> most SSRs have an opto on their input
[01:23:00] <Yuga> Jacky^... les is into speaker design... interesting fact i leant the other night
[01:23:08] <jmkasunich> so no additional isolation should be needed
[01:23:36] <Jymmm> page 3 http://www.opto22.com/asset/documents/0859_Solid_State_Relays_data_sheet.pdf
[01:23:46] <Jacky^> Yuga: cool :) i know.. les have a great experience
[01:24:19] <Jacky^> especially with wood
[01:24:42] <Jymmm> damn, only says voltage needed, not current
[01:24:52] <jmkasunich> also says input resistance
[01:24:56] <jmkasunich> I = V/R
[01:25:03] <jmkasunich> 3v at 3mA
[01:25:05] <Jacky^> :)
[01:25:12] <jmkasunich> for the ones rated at 1000 ohms and 3V
[01:25:18] <Jymmm> Item #2
[01:25:20] <jmkasunich> those will probably work from a parport
[01:25:21] <Jymmm> 120D10
[01:25:29] <jmkasunich> yep
[01:25:47] <jmkasunich> almost certainly will work if you supply +5 and let the parport pull down
[01:25:53] <Jymmm> 110A surge should be ok for a 2HP router
[01:26:03] <Jymmm> startup
[01:26:10] <jmkasunich> marginal, but might work if you want the parport to pull up (saves the 5V supply)
[01:26:39] <jmkasunich> 110A is for 1 cycle
[01:26:47] <jmkasunich> router takes longer than that to start
[01:27:06] <jmkasunich> you'll probably be ok, but 120D25 is a more conservative choice
[01:27:12] <jmkasunich> what is the price difference?
[01:27:28] <Jymmm> $12/$18 I think
[01:27:54] <jmkasunich> $12 for the 10A one, $18 for the 25A one? then I'd use the big one
[01:28:09] <jmkasunich> it will run cooler too
[01:28:26] <Jymmm> ah, ok. I always forget and thermal
[01:28:31] <Jymmm> a/and/about/
[01:28:57] <jmkasunich> read the rest of the doc (I didn't)... those things often require heatsinks to achieve rated specs
[01:29:19] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[01:29:58] <Yuga> ok... i'm off to bed
[01:30:00] <Yuga> night all
[01:30:02] <Jacky^> Jymmm: a good idea could also be to add a fan to the box
[01:30:05] <Yuga> thanks for the help again jmkasunich
[01:30:06] <jmkasunich> the bigger one will probably need less heatsink
[01:30:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich +5v and let para pull DOWN?
[01:30:07] <Jacky^> Yuga: night
[01:30:12] <jmkasunich> you're welcome
[01:30:17] <jmkasunich> and goodnight
[01:30:34] <jmkasunich> yes - parports can sink more current than they can source
[01:32:09] <Jymmm> +5---10K resistor---SSR----par port pin (active low)
[01:32:16] <Jymmm> ?
[01:32:48] <Jymmm> Jacky^ good idea
[01:32:51] <jmkasunich> the SSRs have built in resistors - didja see the part where it says min turn on voltage 3v protected to 35V (or something like that)?
[01:33:04] <jmkasunich> so +5V--SSR--parportpin
[01:33:06] <jmkasunich> no resistor needed
[01:33:08] <Jymmm> saw that, dind't know what it means
[01:33:28] <jmkasunich> means it's not a raw LED input, you don't need a current limiting resistor
[01:34:17] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[01:36:48] <Jymmm> When all this comes together, it'll be really cool to press one button on the keyboard... vac turns on, router starts up, and a few seconds later the machien does it's thing, then turns everything else back off =)
[01:37:13] <Jacky^> cool :)
[01:38:13] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Silly question... If I want to manually turn on the SSR, would it be a 1K resister to ground?
[01:38:30] <Jymmm> so I done blow up the para port
[01:38:35] <Jymmm> s/done/dont/
[01:39:13] <Jymmm> or should I just use a SPDT (center off)
[01:39:39] <Jacky^> bed calls.. night all
[01:39:45] <Jymmm> Night Jacky^
[01:39:51] <Jacky^> night
[07:36:32] <anonimas1> anonimas1 is now known as anonimasu
[09:38:41] <barca> hi
[09:38:51] <barca> could anyone help me with running BDI?
[09:38:53] <alex_joni> hello
[09:38:56] <alex_joni> shoot
[09:39:01] <alex_joni> what's the problem?
[09:39:05] <barca> hm
[09:39:14] <barca> when it's time to run X-server...
[09:39:23] <barca> it's trying to run
[09:39:26] <barca> and it stops
[09:39:30] <alex_joni> during install? or afterwards?
[09:39:31] <barca> without any error
[09:39:40] <barca> yes, during install
[09:39:52] <barca> I tried to run it on vmware and it worked fine
[09:40:05] <barca> but on my PIII 550Mhz it can't be installed :/
[09:40:26] <barca> I tried also many kernel option during boot
[09:40:31] <barca> but it didn't helped
[09:40:41] <alex_joni> hmm.. might be a something the installer is not detecting
[09:40:46] <alex_joni> that's part of debian's anaconda
[09:40:50] <alex_joni> can't help you there
[09:40:50] <barca> i tried linux noprobe
[09:40:51] <barca> ;)
[09:40:55] <alex_joni> but you have 2 options
[09:41:02] <barca> yes?
[09:41:04] <alex_joni> 1. wait for the next BDI in a few weeks :(
[09:41:11] <alex_joni> 2. install on a different system
[09:41:11] <barca> hehe ;)
[09:41:18] <alex_joni> then move the HDD over to this bx
[09:41:19] <alex_joni> box
[09:41:23] <alex_joni> it should work
[09:41:29] <barca> uhm
[09:41:38] <alex_joni> can you do that?
[09:41:42] <barca> is there possibility to run BDI installer in text mode?
[09:41:50] <alex_joni> don't think so :(
[09:41:53] <barca> I think I have to ;]
[09:41:57] <alex_joni> I just installed for a PII-233
[09:42:05] <alex_joni> but that was too slow/crashed eventually
[09:42:12] <barca> uhm
[09:42:13] <alex_joni> so I installed on a 1.4 GHz Athlon
[09:42:19] <alex_joni> and moved the HDD over at the end
[09:42:28] <alex_joni> just thought of option nr. 3
[09:42:33] <alex_joni> install debian
[09:42:53] <alex_joni> then follow http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?DebianInstall
[09:42:59] <alex_joni> should be failry simple
[09:43:04] <alex_joni> fairly
[09:43:10] <barca> hmhm
[09:43:12] <alex_joni> can't type.. not fully awake yet ;)
[09:43:33] <barca> it sounds reasonable ;)
[09:43:44] <barca> I've debian already on CD...
[09:44:05] <barca> ok, I'll try that way ;]
[09:44:05] <alex_joni> well. that's what I would do
[09:44:09] <alex_joni> short question
[09:44:13] <barca> thank you very much for help
[09:44:16] <alex_joni> what graphic card do you have?
[09:44:20] <alex_joni> on-board?
[09:44:34] <alex_joni> because that is a known problem with the current BDI
[09:44:45] <barca> no on-board, some common PCI or AGP, I even didn't know, but surely not on-board
[09:44:53] <barca> yes, I know, I read your page
[09:44:53] <barca> ;)
[09:44:55] <alex_joni> maybe try another one..
[09:44:57] <alex_joni> my page?
[09:45:00] <alex_joni> :P
[09:45:11] <barca> http://linuxcnc.org/bdi/
[09:45:19] <barca> I thought you're member of cnc project :P
[09:45:42] <alex_joni> I am
[09:45:50] <alex_joni> but the BDI is paul corner's baby ;)
[09:45:55] <alex_joni> he's not around right now :P
[09:45:56] <barca> a ;]
[09:46:03] <alex_joni> I'm just helping out where I can :)
[09:46:19] <barca> ok, thx again, I will try to install debian and apt-get emc ;)
[09:46:30] <barca> cya ;]
[09:46:36] <alex_joni> bye
[09:46:41] <alex_joni> report back any success :D
[09:49:55] <alex_joni> anyone home?
[09:58:07] <alex_joni> this looks nice: http://www.maxonmotorusa.com/files/catalog/2005/pdf/05_265_e.pdf
[11:36:21] <paul_c> * paul_c slaps alex_joni around a little with an old fish
[11:36:37] <alex_joni> that's for taking care of your BDI users?
[11:36:50] <paul_c> nope...
[11:37:01] <alex_joni> ah.. just for fun?
[11:37:08] <paul_c> nope
[11:37:13] <alex_joni> then?
[11:37:29] <paul_c> "I would suggest to give emc2 a spin if things don't work out with
[11:37:29] <paul_c> STEPPING_TYPE.
[11:37:31] <paul_c> "
[11:37:51] <alex_joni> heh.. what's wrong with that?
[11:38:05] <paul_c> "Has anyone running or tested emcsegmot and Steppers like freqmot?"
[11:38:07] <alex_joni> it certainly makes his life/mess a lot easier
[11:38:15] <paul_c> It won't...
[11:38:15] <alex_joni> I didn't
[11:38:21] <alex_joni> why not?
[11:38:30] <paul_c> Till is using segmentqueue
[11:38:40] <paul_c> and adding master/slave
[11:39:06] <alex_joni> sq?
[11:39:09] <paul_c> yup
[11:39:12] <alex_joni> why ?
[11:39:13] <alex_joni> :D
[11:39:18] <alex_joni> heh.. don't answer
[11:39:26] <paul_c> 'cos it's there, and he can ?
[11:39:43] <alex_joni> master/slave should go to emc2
[11:39:45] <alex_joni> :D
[11:39:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hides
[11:43:17] <alex_joni> Imperator_ is working on that afaik
[11:43:18] <alex_joni> ;)
[11:43:27] <alex_joni> at least he plans it
[12:19:13] <Yuga> hey there Jacky^
[12:33:52] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[12:38:39] <Jacky^> hi Yuga
[12:39:02] <Jacky^> later
[12:39:11] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[12:54:11] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[14:37:42] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[14:38:14] <A_Guy> * A_Guy slaps Jacky^ around a bit with a large trout
[14:38:30] <Jacky^> ouch
[14:38:33] <Jacky^> :D
[14:38:34] <A_Guy> haha
[14:38:36] <A_Guy> take that
[14:38:40] <Jacky^> lol
[14:38:54] <Jacky^> what are U drinking ? O_o
[14:39:06] <A_Guy> very dirty water
[15:00:46] <Jacky^> apple vs M$... on ipod patents
[15:00:52] <Jacky^> "In generale la nostra politica � quella di permettere ad altri di sfruttare i nostri brevetti per i loro prodotti",
[15:01:04] <Jacky^> M$: "In a generalized manner our politics are that one to allow to others
[15:01:05] <Jacky^> to take advantage of our licences for their products",
[15:01:10] <Jacky^> bahahahahahahaha !
[15:02:01] <Jacky^> cool
[15:02:08] <Jacky^> rotfl
[17:23:26] <Jymmm> 'tap tap tap' is this thing on?
[17:24:25] <Jacky^> knock knock knock..
[17:24:41] <Jacky^> ciao Jymmm
[17:24:50] <Jymmm> =)
[17:25:06] <Jacky^> :)
[17:28:56] <A_Guy> when i find the chap who designed the plans for this speaker box i am going to KICK HIS ASS!!!
[17:29:12] <A_Guy> i have never in my entire life seen such shit plans
[17:31:07] <paul_c> * paul_c adds a little something to da web page for M$ IE usrs.
[17:31:27] <Jymmm> paul_c : a virus?
[17:31:48] <paul_c> ;-o
[17:32:52] <Jacky^> A_Guy: try to listen this: http://www.spectralaudio.com/dma360.htm
[17:32:58] <Jacky^> hi paul_c
[17:33:29] <A_Guy> whats that Jacky^?
[17:34:25] <A_Guy> perty
[17:34:26] <Jacky^> something can send you to the other world, then come back :P
[17:35:10] <A_Guy> Jacky^... not realy that impressive
[17:35:17] <A_Guy> only draws 2000 watts
[17:35:35] <Jacky^> listen before talk..
[17:35:42] <Jymmm> I got a P3 733 for $15 on saturday, no hdd. I pulled out the hdd from my other machine that had BDI installed on it and installed it inot the new machine with the intensions of wiping the drive and doing a fresh install. For the hell of I decide to but up the hdd in the new machine just to see what would happen before wiping it... The damn thing booted up, found all the hardware and worked perfectly! lol
[17:36:01] <Jymmm> s/but/boot/
[17:36:23] <SWP_Away> showing one area in which Linux is far superior to Windows
[17:37:12] <SWP_Away> try that with Win2K, and you'll have a hard time booting (since it won't see the IDE controller), and then you may end up with two motherboards in the device manager
[17:37:20] <Jymmm> they aren't even the same mobo's.... one is an intel the other is an asus.
[17:37:25] <SWP_Away> (one of which isn't working correctly)
[17:38:09] <SWP_Away> right - it'll boot on any chipset that the kernel supports
[17:38:28] <Jymmm> one is pci video, the other being agp
[17:38:46] <SWP_Away> do they have the same video card?
[17:38:59] <Jacky^> paul_c: i think 've fund my issue about feedrate ...
[17:39:06] <Jymmm> same brand, but like I said one is PCI the other is AGP
[17:39:30] <Jacky^> paul_c: i'm using isa parport ..
[17:39:32] <SWP_Away> OK - same X driver - that's the thing that doesn't work so well on Linux - X isn't reconfigured at boot time
[17:39:48] <Jacky^> paul_c: what if i change it with pci parport ??
[17:40:21] <A_Guy> Jacky^... that doesnt look like to much of a serious amp
[17:40:29] <Jacky^> actual speed should be abou 20 us
[17:40:40] <Jacky^> A_Guy: you can believe me
[17:40:47] <Jacky^> I listen it
[17:40:51] <paul_c> Jacky^: If you switch from an ISA parport to a PCI one...
[17:40:59] <A_Guy> just looking at the circuit... and current draw
[17:41:04] <paul_c> cat /proc/ioports
[17:41:14] <paul_c> to see where it is found.
[17:41:41] <Jacky^> paul_c: do you think pci parport will give better performance ? i think so ..
[17:43:19] <Jacky^> i want to check with scope
[17:43:31] <Jacky^> max rated pulses i get
[17:44:08] <Jacky^> i also have onboard parport
[17:44:28] <Jacky^> but i dont want to use it
[17:44:53] <Jacky^> if chipset burn, then mb will not work :\
[17:45:08] <Jacky^> i've not opto-isolation at the moment
[17:46:24] <paul_c> Sounds like you have made your mind up already.
[17:46:47] <Jacky^> :)
[17:46:50] <anonimasu> Jacky^: do you have geckodrives?
[17:46:59] <Jacky^> anonimasu: nah
[17:46:59] <anonimasu> if you connect them directly your port wont die.
[17:47:02] <anonimasu> ah..
[17:47:16] <Jacky^> l297-298 homebuilt circuit
[17:47:16] <paul_c> * paul_c disappears for a bit.
[17:47:26] <anonimasu> dosent say me anything
[17:47:30] <anonimasu> it's probably good...
[17:47:37] <anonimasu> but I wouldnt run un-isolated with it ;)
[17:47:38] <Jacky^> yeah
[17:47:54] <Jacky^> but I think ISA parport is slow
[17:48:56] <Jymmm> Jacky^ DUH! =)
[17:49:15] <Jacky^> anonimasu: i'm running unisolated a lots
[17:49:29] <Jacky^> np..
[17:51:22] <Jacky^> before add any optoisolator i want to check real speed i can get
[17:57:42] <Jymmm> Jacky^ 186,000m/s
[17:58:36] <Jacky^> Jymmm: the mine is too slow for woodworking
[17:59:03] <Jymmm> Jacky^ have you tried to reduced the rpm on the router?
[17:59:35] <Jacky^> Jymmm: i bought a new router on ebay, im waiting to receive it
[17:59:51] <Jacky^> it has electronic speed control
[18:00:03] <Jacky^> should work ..
[18:00:05] <Jymmm> ah. what did you get?
[18:00:25] <Jacky^> dewalt
[18:00:29] <Jymmm> model?
[18:00:47] <Jacky^> about 1k watt
[18:01:56] <Jacky^> 641 if i remember well
[18:07:28] <Jacky^> DW621*
[18:19:34] <Jymmm> ah ok.
[18:19:51] <Jymmm> I JUST found out the REAL mfg of my Sears router.... Bosch
[18:21:18] <Jacky^> nice :)
[19:48:27] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ listen michael buble' 'home'..
[19:48:43] <Jacky^> :D
[19:49:42] <Jacky^> great
[20:07:11] <A_Guy> have i mentioned today that i am going to kill this chap who made this plan?
[20:07:24] <paul_c> Yes. Several times.
[20:07:31] <Jacky^> true
[20:07:36] <A_Guy> thought i would just mention it again
[20:07:57] <Jacky^> cant you save the msg in a file ?
[20:08:04] <Jacky^> :D
[20:08:13] <A_Guy> Jacky^.. it's just not the smae
[20:08:23] <Jacky^> no ?
[20:08:28] <Jacky^> what changed ?
[20:08:32] <A_Guy> i like the constant moaning... gives us something ti talk about
[20:08:55] <paul_c> [nolog]
[20:09:16] <Jacky^> lol :P
[20:10:50] <A_Guy> lol... downloading gummi bears... yes i am bored
[20:11:08] <A_Guy> the only reason i am downloading gummi bears is cause i cant find thunder cats :P
[20:11:58] <Jacky^> hehe
[20:12:22] <A_Guy> Jacky^... how old u?
[20:12:33] <Jacky^> 13
[20:13:00] <A_Guy> nooooo... i didnt ask mental age... asked physical age
[20:13:10] <Jacky^> ahhh..
[20:13:25] <Jacky^> mnemonical age about 1024
[20:14:15] <Jacky^> i need to add another bank of 2048 :P
[20:14:38] <Jacky^> kidding..
[20:14:47] <Jacky^> i'm 36 years old
[20:15:13] <Jacky^> you ?
[20:15:34] <A_Guy> 25
[20:15:42] <Jacky^> nice
[20:15:56] <Jacky^> you married ?
[20:16:03] <A_Guy> nopes
[20:16:11] <Jacky^> very very nice :P
[20:16:19] <Jacky^> never do it
[20:16:21] <Jacky^> :D
[20:16:24] <A_Guy> current gf is already driving me mad... lol... dont think i can handle marrage right now :)
[20:16:24] <Jymmm> lol
[20:16:47] <A_Guy> Jymmm... women are like leaches... they suck the life out of you.
[20:17:02] <Jacky^> mmhhhh
[20:17:23] <Jacky^> i agree with you
[20:17:27] <A_Guy> hehe
[20:17:44] <A_Guy> ok... every one stop what u are doing and tell me what u think of my boddy kit i am fitting on my car
[20:17:45] <A_Guy> http://www.myride.co.za/uno/1.jpg
[20:17:50] <Jymmm> more like black widows
[20:18:04] <Jymmm> it sucks.
[20:18:10] <Jymmm> should I look at the pic now?
[20:18:19] <A_Guy> Jymmm...s o does your mother... but your father didint complain
[20:18:32] <Jymmm> A_Guy as does yours
[20:18:45] <A_Guy> * A_Guy get's the soap and washes mind
[20:18:51] <Jacky^> A_Guy: bleahhh
[20:18:53] <A_Guy> ok... night mares for weeks now
[20:19:00] <Jymmm> payback is a bitch aint it!
[20:19:01] <Jacky^> what is ?
[20:19:15] <A_Guy> so what u think of the bodykit?
[20:19:16] <Jacky^> Fiat uno ?
[20:19:25] <A_Guy> yep :)
[20:19:36] <Jacky^> i think..
[20:19:42] <Jacky^> you're crazy
[20:19:45] <Jacky^> :D
[20:19:50] <A_Guy> y am i crazy now?
[20:20:04] <A_Guy> just ignore the spraypaint on the bonnet :) got bored :P
[20:20:05] <Jacky^> very crazy..
[20:20:24] <Jacky^> really crazy
[20:20:28] <Jacky^> :)
[20:20:30] <A_Guy> Jacky^... what u got against my body kit?
[20:21:34] <Jacky^> an abortion of the nature
[20:21:54] <A_Guy> :<
[20:21:58] <Jacky^> :D
[20:22:16] <Jymmm> rotf
[20:22:53] <A_Guy> Jymmm... is Jacky^ always this crule and full of shite??? or u laughing at the bodykit?
[20:23:09] <CIA-9> 03paul_c * 10emc/src/emcnml/initraj.cc: Move reading of DEFAULT_ACCELERATION down in the order else MAX_ACCELERATION is not honoured.
[20:23:25] <Jymmm> A_Guy: Jacky^ is never been mean or cruel as long as I have known him.
[20:24:12] <Jymmm> s/is/has/
[20:24:28] <Jacky^> :)
[20:54:51] <alex_joni> greetings
[20:56:37] <Jacky^> yo alex_joni
[21:04:37] <paul_c> alex_joni: You're a M$ IE lusr aren't you...?
[21:04:53] <alex_joni> sometimes
[21:05:15] <paul_c> You don't wanna be going to my web pages then.
[21:05:27] <alex_joni> why?
[21:05:54] <paul_c> added a little something just for IE users
[21:06:10] <alex_joni> errr.. scuse me, but I would NEVER touch IE
[21:06:43] <alex_joni> I only started it once .. to download Opera
[21:06:57] <alex_joni> then used Opera to download firefox :D
[21:07:00] <Jymmm> wth is a 'spline' ?
[21:07:07] <alex_joni> a curve
[21:07:13] <alex_joni> determined by some points
[21:07:18] <alex_joni> depending on the grade
[21:07:32] <alex_joni> you have 3rd 5th, etc degree splines
[21:07:38] <alex_joni> they are actually based on a polinom
[21:07:40] <Jymmm> any reaosn why there would be issues importing/opening a file that has 'splines'?
[21:07:56] <alex_joni> into what?
[21:08:09] <Jymmm> a drawing/cad program
[21:08:31] <alex_joni> if it doesn't know how to handle splines.. yes
[21:08:39] <alex_joni> in that case you need to convert to curves
[21:08:46] <alex_joni> or segments
[21:09:05] <Jymmm> spline, curves, and now sergments?!
[21:09:14] <Jymmm> less the tpos =)
[21:09:23] <Jymmm> * Jymmm typoed typo
[21:09:36] <alex_joni> depends how stupid the cad is
[21:09:51] <Jymmm> more than one program bitched about splines
[21:10:41] <Jymmm> so, whats a segment?
[21:10:56] <alex_joni> lol
[21:11:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is watching jerry springer ;)
[21:11:38] <alex_joni> california is having a huge teacher shortage
[21:11:44] <alex_joni> about 52000 teachers are needed
[21:11:58] <Jymmm> sounds about right.
[21:11:58] <alex_joni> till 2007 students will be forced to have sex with each other
[21:11:59] <alex_joni> ROFL
[21:12:13] <Jymmm> each other?
[21:12:18] <ValarQ> alex_joni: 52k is quite many...
[21:12:21] <Jymmm> ah, nm
[21:12:25] <alex_joni> yeah.. because of the lack of teachers
[21:12:30] <alex_joni> duh.. Jymmm
[21:12:49] <Jymmm> alex_joni Hey, we got all kinds of shit here, hard to keep up with it all
[21:12:58] <alex_joni> .P
[21:14:27] <Jymmm> I created some artwork in Corel, saved as DXF, tried opening it up in DesKam and it bitched about 'splines'. Then tried opening the DXF in SW and it bithced about 'splines' again.
[21:14:59] <alex_joni> go back to corel
[21:15:07] <alex_joni> and you have an option convert to curve there
[21:15:11] <alex_joni> iirc
[21:15:15] <Jymmm> ok, let me try
[21:19:32] <alex_joni> cron's still working ;)
[21:20:03] <Jymmm> Damn, I did export text as curves, but DesKam is still bitching about exploding splines
[21:20:43] <alex_joni> take cover!!!
[21:20:52] <alex_joni> Jymmm's splines are exploding
[21:21:23] <Jymmm> R14 ok?
[21:22:10] <alex_joni> autocad?
[21:22:24] <Jymmm> DXF yeah
[21:30:31] <Jymmm> any suggested version to export to?
[21:32:11] <Jymmm> any suggested version to export to?
[21:32:21] <alex_joni_> .txt
[21:32:43] <Jymmm> from corel I mean
[21:32:51] <alex_joni_> rtf ?
[21:32:58] <Jymmm> wtf?!
[21:33:04] <alex_joni_> heh
[21:33:16] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks alex_joni with MS-PAINT!
[21:33:34] <alex_joni_> lucky me I set up a zombie to take the slapping
[21:33:55] <Jymmm> homie dont think so!
[21:35:18] <paul_c> paul_c has kicked alex_joni from #emc
[21:35:27] <paul_c> Jymmm: Have another go ;)
[21:35:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks alex_joni_ with MS-PAINT!
[21:35:51] <Jymmm> paul_c: Thanks!
[21:35:59] <alex_joni_> who's alex_joni_ ?
[21:37:16] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: try M$.doc
[21:37:36] <Jymmm> lol
[21:38:55] <ValarQ> alex_joni_: welcome back mr Joni
[21:39:04] <alex_joni_> seems my connection is crappy ;)
[21:39:26] <alex_joni_> yes it is, sir, captain
[21:39:39] <alex_joni_> :P
[21:41:33] <alex_joni_> ValarQ: how's crap going?
[21:44:57] <ValarQ> hmm
[21:46:22] <ValarQ> i haven't been working on crap for a while
[21:46:48] <ValarQ> think i have to do some clever gnome-canvas wrapper...
[21:53:02] <Jacky^> hey
[21:53:34] <Jacky^> which slides should i use for a machine 1mtx1mt ?
[21:54:00] <Jacky^> strong machine
[21:55:02] <Jymmm> 24" I beam
[21:57:39] <Jacky^> Jymmm: some pictures ?
[21:58:35] <Jymmm> Jacky^ http://www.mlchapel.org/photogallery/04Jun/part2/7_ironworker%20astride%20beam.jpg
[21:59:01] <Jacky^> ouch
[21:59:07] <Jacky^> doh :))
[22:00:00] <Jacky^> i was thinking something like this: http://www.baricentrorc.net/upload/rte/CNC/Attilio/passo1/01.jpg
[22:00:39] <Jacky^> may someone here can build these slides using his machine ?
[22:00:47] <Jacky^> i will pay for it :P
[22:01:08] <Jacky^> instead of buy it from skf :\
[22:02:04] <Jacky^> Jymmm: can you machine a slide like that ?
[22:02:40] <Jacky^> i eard in some forum, someone has do it
[22:03:56] <alex_joni_> Jacky^: get IGUS
[22:04:09] <Jacky^> alex_joni_: what are ?
[22:04:13] <alex_joni_> err.. not igus
[22:04:20] <alex_joni_> lemme find the url
[22:05:08] <alex_joni_> http://www.hiwin.com/lg/index.html
[22:05:15] <Jacky^> ok, thanks
[22:05:25] <Jacky^> looking
[22:06:37] <alex_joni_> this is cool: http://www.hiwin.com/lm/lmsp.html
[22:06:44] <Jymmm> alex_joni_: Damn, man I can't get it out of Corel and into something else worthwhile =(
[22:07:05] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: too bad :(
[22:07:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni_ you're just in a mood today, huh?
[22:07:33] <alex_joni_> yeah.. going to bed now
[22:07:47] <alex_joni_> more than enough for a day :P
[22:07:49] <Jymmm> g'night
[22:08:17] <Jacky^> alex_joni_: night
[22:09:07] <alex_joni_> Jacky^: Hiwin should be in italy too
[22:09:24] <Jacky^> alex_joni_: ok, i will search, tnx
[22:09:39] <Jymmm> hey les
[22:09:44] <Jymmm> hows the storms?
[22:09:49] <les> hey jymmm
[22:09:59] <les> no storms today
[22:09:59] <Jacky^> storms ?
[22:10:05] <Jymmm> cool
[22:10:07] <Jacky^> another plane crashed :\
[22:10:13] <Jacky^> hi les :)
[22:10:24] <les> jacky we often have thunderstorms in the afternoon
[22:10:33] <Jymmm> les : Oh, btw... My 'Sears Craftsman' router is really a Bosch router.
[22:10:35] <Jacky^> nice
[22:10:47] <les> yes The Cyprus plane is perplexing
[22:11:01] <Jacky^> les: i'm looking for a good slides for my next machine
[22:11:16] <les> why did they not put on their oxygen masks?
[22:11:21] <Jacky^> not too much expensive, but strong
[22:11:33] <les> jacky hiwin 15mm rail is very good
[22:11:38] <les> not expensive
[22:11:48] <Jymmm> Jacky^: See, alex JSUT told you that =)
[22:11:48] <Jacky^> how much ?
[22:11:54] <Jacky^> you know ?
[22:12:05] <les> what size machine?
[22:12:06] <Jacky^> about 1 mt
[22:12:15] <les> hmmm
[22:12:37] <Jacky^> dou you know.. i'm working on wood
[22:12:49] <les> here perhaps US$500 or so...
[22:12:59] <les> I understand...wood
[22:12:59] <Jacky^> 500 $ anyone ?
[22:13:20] <Jacky^> i need two right ?
[22:13:27] <les> Your price might be very different
[22:13:35] <alex_joni_> Jacky^: or INA
[22:13:39] <les> you need 6....2 for each axis
[22:14:02] <Jacky^> yeah
[22:14:04] <les> INA is fine too
[22:14:07] <alex_joni_> les: he might get away with 1 bigger / axis
[22:14:23] <alex_joni_> on Y&Z I think
[22:14:29] <alex_joni_> X surely 2
[22:14:38] <les> might
[22:14:42] <Jacky^> also for Y
[22:14:53] <Jacky^> Y should be at least 80 cm ..
[22:15:10] <les> but the 15 mm is not so expensive
[22:15:23] <les> better to use two if you can afford it
[22:15:39] <Jacky^> yeah
[22:15:58] <Jacky^> i cant afford it teorically
[22:16:04] <Jacky^> but i will do :\
[22:16:15] <les> the 15 mm is not structural though...it needs to be bolted to something stiff
[22:16:30] <alex_joni_> 15 mm is soo small ;)
[22:16:32] <les> typically structural steel rectangular tubing
[22:16:39] <alex_joni_> I just got some cariages to replace on a robot
[22:16:46] <Jacky^> i was thinking abou 40 mm
[22:16:49] <Jymmm> 1m = ?? mm ?
[22:16:51] <alex_joni_> about 80 mm wide
[22:16:53] <Jymmm> 100?
[22:17:01] <alex_joni_> and 250 long ;)
[22:17:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni_ go to bed already!
[22:17:10] <alex_joni_> 8 of those on a C-frame :D
[22:17:13] <les> it is small Alex....but more than enough for a light duty wood router
[22:17:20] <les> I use 45 mm
[22:17:23] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ nods
[22:17:25] <Jacky^> nice
[22:17:32] <les> but mine is a heavy machine
[22:17:34] <Jacky^> les: i like 45 mm :P
[22:17:57] <alex_joni_> les: I presume 4 ball lines?
[22:18:02] <Jymmm> 15mm rail ~= $10/100mm
[22:18:11] <Jymmm> excluding blocks
[22:18:18] <les> well it's fine.....Hope you have a good bank account
[22:18:28] <Jacky^> Jymmm: how much micron precision ?
[22:18:44] <Jymmm> Jacky^ go look it up! alex gave you the url!!!
[22:18:46] <alex_joni_> .0001 um
[22:18:49] <alex_joni_> lol
[22:18:49] <les> max dynamic load for minr is 150 kN per axis
[22:18:54] <Jacky^> ok ok..
[22:18:58] <les> I don't think you need that!
[22:19:03] <alex_joni_> nah
[22:19:11] <alex_joni_> les: how much static load will it take?
[22:19:12] <Jacky^> les: too expensive i suppose
[22:19:33] <les> More, but I forget the number
[22:19:42] <Jymmm> 45mm rail == $240USD/m
[22:19:51] <Jacky^> ouch
[22:19:53] <les> max dynamic is for 10^6 maters travel I think
[22:20:00] <alex_joni_> nice
[22:20:07] <les> meters
[22:20:08] <les> heh
[22:20:48] <Jymmm> medium grade 30mm rail == $140 USD/m
[22:20:53] <les> Well the parts for mine were $20,000
[22:21:00] <les> and a year full thime
[22:21:09] <les> bleh
[22:21:10] <Jacky^> 30mm rail == $140 USD/m its ok ..
[22:21:11] <les> time
[22:21:24] <Jymmm> Jacky^ : plus the blocks
[22:21:49] <Jacky^> and if i caluclated well..
[22:21:54] <les> I think 15 has a load of prob 20 kN or so
[22:21:56] <Jacky^> i need 4 right ?
[22:22:01] <Jacky^> for X
[22:22:06] <les> yes
[22:22:24] <Jymmm> 30mm Bearing Block, Square == $75 USD/each
[22:22:31] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ mumble mumble..
[22:22:38] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ thinking
[22:22:41] <les> what brand jymmm
[22:22:46] <Jymmm> hiwin
[22:22:49] <les> k
[22:23:03] <Jymmm> les I'm grabbing proces from automatic4less.com
[22:23:06] <Jymmm> prices
[22:23:17] <Jymmm> automation4less.com
[22:23:24] <les> many 1x2 meter use the 15 just fine if for wood only
[22:23:41] <Jymmm> they have rail in 5mm increments too
[22:23:45] <Jymmm> all hiwin
[22:23:48] <les> looking
[22:24:32] <Jymmm> les : UID: A4L PW: order
[22:24:41] <Jymmm> they have a generic login
[22:25:28] <Jacky^> les: can u tell me please, what the best feedrate for woodwork ?
[22:26:11] <paul_c> wayyyy fast.
[22:26:17] <Jymmm> 20,000M/s
[22:26:22] <anonimasu> :)
[22:26:30] <Jacky^> too fast possible , ok ..
[22:26:36] <anonimasu> les: jacky is having trouble with toold turning black
[22:26:38] <anonimasu> :)
[22:27:05] <Jacky^> yeah, but it's not my only issue ..
[22:27:12] <Jymmm> $18 for a ESTOP button ?! wth
[22:27:25] <Jacky^> i'm actually kidding with a toy machine
[22:27:56] <Jacky^> a moment ..
[22:28:04] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:28:05] <Jacky^> i seen some nice pictures
[22:28:08] <anonimasu> that's cheap for a estop
[22:28:15] <Jymmm> and that excludes the actual electronics too!
[22:28:18] <Jacky^> but is in restricted area of a website..
[22:28:22] <anonimasu> my retailer at work takes 50$
[22:28:41] <Jacky^> i will upload it on my album to show it
[22:28:44] <Jymmm> screw that, I know where to get some arcade buttons =)
[22:29:03] <les> I checked the 15mm load rating: 10kN +. Plenty for you.
[22:29:41] <les> I used to buy from HIWIN direct but have not for a while...so don't know exact prices
[22:30:15] <les> typical router cutting force is only 100N!
[22:31:15] <Jymmm> les : Heh, they have a branch office 15 minutes from me =)
[22:31:39] <les> Hiwin rates their forces in kGf, but being an engineer I don't like such a unit. kG is a unit of mass!
[22:32:30] <les> Folks I must now go to a city hall meeting.
[22:32:48] <les> Back in a little while after I yess at poliyicians!
[22:32:53] <les> yell
[22:32:55] <les> heh
[22:33:13] <Jymmm> les got your soundtrack cd handy?
[22:33:22] <les> ha
[22:33:50] <les> and amazingly...a storm is coming now!
[22:33:54] <les> I hear thunder
[22:34:23] <alex_joni_> buggerit
[22:34:35] <alex_joni_> seems the 4 channel STG doesn't have any ADC's on it :(
[22:34:44] <anonimasu> :(
[22:35:00] <anonimasu> no tach feedback
[22:35:07] <alex_joni_> no wonder the values measured are always 0
[22:35:23] <alex_joni_> anonimasu: use a proper drive for that
[22:35:34] <les> you do not need tach feed back anyway
[22:35:42] <alex_joni_> dac->drive
[22:35:46] <alex_joni_> drive -> motor
[22:35:49] <alex_joni_> tach -> drive
[22:35:52] <alex_joni_> encoder -> emc
[22:36:01] <alex_joni_> you need 2 control loops
[22:36:10] <Jacky^> les: http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&pos=-1283
[22:36:20] <alex_joni_> drive-tach for velocity
[22:36:22] <Jacky^> how seem to you ?
[22:36:47] <les> Current drive with velocity derived form encoder is typically used these days...works great. No second velocity estimator (tach)
[22:37:02] <alex_joni_> yeah.. that too
[22:37:17] <les> That was only used long ago when computers were slow
[22:37:23] <alex_joni_> ;)
[22:37:31] <alex_joni_> they are still slow
[22:37:36] <les> haha
[22:37:42] <alex_joni_> for most of the tasks anyways
[22:37:44] <les> biaw
[22:38:36] <anonimasu> no no no tachs rock!
[22:38:41] <anonimasu> the same way resolvers rock.
[22:38:41] <Jymmm> les : pricing from hiwin directly is the same as A4L
[22:38:52] <anonimasu> back in 1975.
[22:38:54] <anonimasu> :D
[22:39:25] <paul_c> * paul_c kicks anonimasu in to the 21st century
[22:39:33] <Jacky^> lol
[22:39:37] <Jacky^> :))
[22:39:50] <Jacky^> back to the future
[22:40:01] <Jymmm> back to the present would be nice
[22:40:34] <Jymmm> wth is a 'light curtain' ?
[22:40:35] <Jacky^> i've lost time
[22:40:42] <Jacky^> what time is it ? O_O
[22:40:57] <Jymmm> [14:41:50] <Jacky^> what time is it ? O_O
[22:41:06] <Jacky^> ah well
[22:41:10] <Jacky^> :)
[22:41:13] <alex_joni_> [00:42] <Jacky^> what time is it ? O_O
[22:41:21] <Jacky^> ahhh..
[22:41:32] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ confused
[22:41:40] <Jacky^> :P
[22:42:26] <Jacky^> well, ok.. i will buy hiwin slides, you agree ?
[22:43:00] <Jacky^> i will proceed in the next week
[22:43:07] <Jymmm> no way man, les and alex_joni_ know nut-ting!
[22:43:30] <Jacky^> :)
[22:43:42] <CIA-9> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_stg.c: fixed a typo on the ADC routine. adc needs testing by someone with a STG-I-8 board, the 4 channel seems to lack ADC's
[22:44:33] <alex_joni_> les: think you have a STG ;)
[22:44:41] <alex_joni_> riiight?
[22:45:14] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General emc discussions and support the rest of the week.
[22:45:14] <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General linux discussions and support the rest of the week.
[22:47:51] <alex_joni_> night
[23:04:53] <gezr> howdy yall
[23:06:02] <paul_c> Evening gezr
[23:08:49] <gezr> how are things today paul_c ?
[23:13:12] <paul_c> trying to sort out a problem with accel.
[23:13:22] <gezr> I still have no machine
[23:13:43] <paul_c> here, have one of mine.
[23:14:09] <gezr> I dont have an active X session up at the moment :(
[23:51:46] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ yawns
[23:52:00] <Jacky^> anonimasu: :P
[23:52:14] <Jacky^> sleeping ?
[23:57:17] <anonimasu> no
[23:57:28] <Jacky^> :)
[23:58:22] <anonimasu> I'll be heading to bed in a couple of minutes