#emc | Logs for 2005-08-12

[00:00:13] <les> I refused to sell the thing with mach2/stepper
[00:00:58] <Jymmm> les , fine, just sell the license to someone else is all
[00:01:28] <les> That machine needs servos and emc.
[00:01:59] <alex_joni> anonimasu: how often does the bug appear?
[00:02:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: often
[00:02:26] <alex_joni> here it shows up after about 120-150 mode changes
[00:02:26] <Jymmm> Has emc *ALWAYS* been gpl?
[00:02:42] <alex_joni> Jymmm: emc was released under PD first
[00:02:47] <alex_joni> emc2 is GPL
[00:03:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni ok so emc2 is GPL, but emc1 is PD ?
[00:03:18] <Jymmm> BDI == gpl or pd ?
[00:03:22] <alex_joni> anonimasu: strange.. all I can get is tkemc to lock up
[00:03:35] <alex_joni> Jymmm: emc1 is partly GPL too now
[00:03:47] <alex_joni> you can check out some very old version if you want PD
[00:03:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni cvs?
[00:03:57] <alex_joni> BDI is GPL afaik
[00:04:03] <alex_joni> yup
[00:04:08] <Jymmm> ok
[00:04:25] <alex_joni> cvs up -d "01.01.2000"
[00:04:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[00:04:56] <Jymmm> nite
[00:05:01] <alex_joni> night
[00:05:08] <alex_joni> what's left of it
[00:05:32] <Jymmm> heh
[00:05:50] <alex_joni> anonimasu: can you say how often the bug shows on your setup?
[00:06:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I just did.. very very often
[00:06:06] <alex_joni> after 1 mode change? after 10?
[00:06:17] <anonimasu> after 3-4
[00:06:20] <alex_joni> do you change extremely fast from Manual to MDI to Auto and back
[00:06:22] <anonimasu> on the lower period setting..
[00:06:22] <anonimasu> no
[00:06:31] <alex_joni> how about higher?
[00:06:37] <alex_joni> can you check smthg?
[00:07:00] <anonimasu> it appears less on higher period settings
[00:07:03] <alex_joni> 1. open a console, and do a tail -f /var/log/messages
[00:07:27] <alex_joni> 2. open an editor and edit emc2/src/emc/motion/motion.c
[00:07:45] <les> This guy has one machine in the states. Sales are 6-8 weeks lead....yeah sure. Won't fly.
[00:08:19] <alex_joni> 2.a find the function int init_module(void)
[00:08:25] <alex_joni> and uncomment this line:
[00:08:31] <alex_joni> // rtapi_set_msg_level(RTAPI_MSG_ALL);
[00:08:53] <anonimasu> recompiling it now..
[00:08:55] <alex_joni> 3. cd emc2/src/emc/ && make
[00:09:03] <anonimasu> it's done
[00:09:25] <alex_joni> now.. after the lockup check if the motion understands the commands
[00:09:33] <alex_joni> e.g. the command number increases
[00:09:46] <alex_joni> and there should be messages like: FREE, TELEOP, COORD
[00:10:02] <alex_joni> err TELEOP only for nontrivkins, so probably you won't see it
[00:10:05] <alex_joni> but FREE & COORD
[00:10:24] <alex_joni> and when you're switching from MANUAL to MDI it should say COORD
[00:10:32] <anonimasu> it's broken
[00:10:39] <alex_joni> switch back to MANUAL, it should say a list of ABORTS then FREE
[00:10:43] <alex_joni> what's broken?
[00:10:46] <anonimasu> emc2
[00:10:51] <anonimasu> _sem.c: rcs_sem_wait(): Invalid argument
[00:10:57] <alex_joni> cvs up
[00:12:01] <anonimasu> wait
[00:13:54] <anonimasu> Aug 12 00:04:10 localhost kernel: 50880: CMD 234, code 15 COORD
[00:14:01] <anonimasu> what messages show after it fails
[00:14:26] <alex_joni> all of them?
[00:14:35] <anonimasu> after it's locked up
[00:14:36] <alex_joni> hit F3 for Manual
[00:14:45] <anonimasu> Aug 12 00:05:05 localhost kernel: 105933: CMD 239, code 14 FREE
[00:14:45] <alex_joni> still the same message?
[00:14:51] <alex_joni> ok
[00:14:58] <alex_joni> so motion gets the right command
[00:15:09] <anonimasu> I had to force it a bit to make it lock up now..
[00:15:16] <alex_joni> tracing where emcsh actually gets the idea of the current mode
[00:15:16] <anonimasu> since I have the default period now
[00:19:28] <alex_joni> yo paul_c
[00:19:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni digged for that bug
[00:19:41] <paul_c> wot you broken now ?
[00:19:45] <alex_joni> not me
[00:19:47] <alex_joni> anonimasu did
[00:19:48] <alex_joni> :D
[00:19:53] <alex_joni> report it at least
[00:19:58] <paul_c> where are you looking ?
[00:20:01] <alex_joni> one question for you
[00:20:08] <alex_joni> motion seems to be getting the command
[00:20:12] <alex_joni> and interpret it ok
[00:20:25] <alex_joni> what bugs me..where the heck does emcsh get the mode from?
[00:20:34] <alex_joni> emcmotStatus->task.mode
[00:20:36] <Jymmm> I'm with paul_c.... What did yo ubreak now alex_joni!?!?!?!
[00:20:44] <alex_joni> I can't find where that gets written to
[00:21:02] <Jymmm> alex_joni you broke that too?!?!?!?!
[00:21:19] <paul_c> how do you mean "get written to" ?
[00:21:32] <alex_joni> like where does that data come from?
[00:21:43] <alex_joni> does it map to a motion struct?
[00:21:59] <paul_c> it gets passed up from motion via emcStatus
[00:22:37] <alex_joni> any idea where that happens?
[00:22:43] <paul_c> lemme pull up a LyX doc of the status data.
[00:23:31] <Jacky^> hello :)
[00:25:20] <paul_c> emcStatus.task.mode
[00:25:58] <Jymmm> Hola Jacky^
[00:26:02] <alex_joni> can't find that in motion
[00:26:07] <alex_joni> all I found was emcstatus.motion_state
[00:26:20] <alex_joni> actually emcmotStatus->motion_state
[00:27:12] <alex_joni> emcStatus shouldn't be in motion afaik
[00:27:17] <alex_joni> emcmotStatus is however
[00:27:36] <alex_joni> somewhere there should be a mapping between the two I think
[00:29:26] <alex_joni> from what I'm reading now, there's a function update_status() that should take care of reporting the current status up higher
[00:38:12] <alex_joni> anonimasu:still there?
[00:38:17] <anonimasu> yes.
[00:38:30] <alex_joni> there might be a way to investigate it further
[00:38:37] <alex_joni> did you ever use usrmot ?
[00:39:57] <alex_joni> try running emc the normal way, and use tkemc to lock up the mode change
[00:39:59] <alex_joni> then run usrmot
[00:40:16] <alex_joni> and enter the command "show", it should prin the current emcmotStatus
[00:40:58] <anonimasu> hm, no idea..
[00:41:04] <anonimasu> yes I am running emc2 the normal way
[00:41:10] <paul_c> alex_joni: Start with grepping for determineMode()
[00:41:13] <anonimasu> tkemc dosent lock up
[00:42:00] <alex_joni> I mean the mode change should lock up
[00:42:39] <anonimasu> hm, no idea
[00:42:53] <anonimasu> motmod is what I am running
[00:43:12] <alex_joni> motmod is the core module
[00:43:26] <alex_joni> usrmot is a userinterface to talk to it
[00:43:28] <alex_joni> non-X
[00:43:33] <alex_joni> but not quite a GUI
[00:44:01] <anonimasu> it's running
[00:44:01] <alex_joni> anonimasu: one more question. does it always lock on the same mode?
[00:44:36] <alex_joni> example: won't change off MANUAL
[00:44:38] <anonimasu> yes..
[00:44:44] <anonimasu> I think it always locks on manual
[00:44:49] <alex_joni> OK
[00:47:08] <paul_c> mode is updated via emcTrajUpdate
[00:48:37] <alex_joni> gawd I hate such programming :
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> stat->mode =
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> emcmotStatus.
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> motionFlag & EMCMOT_MOTION_TELEOP_BIT ? EMC_TRAJ_MODE_TELEOP
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> : (emcmotStatus.
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> motionFlag & EMCMOT_MOTION_COORD_BIT ? EMC_TRAJ_MODE_COORD :
[00:48:46] <alex_joni> EMC_TRAJ_MODE_FREE);
[00:52:01] <paul_c> That's the section.
[00:52:26] <paul_c> Now you need to look at the RT motion that updates motionFlag
[00:52:55] <paul_c> my guess is the update function(s) is buggered.
[01:01:14] <alex_joni> motionFlag doesn't update anymore after the lockup
[01:04:22] <paul_c> That's what I said in the notes in the bug report - The command is not being honoured at the RT motion level.
[01:04:44] <alex_joni> well the command is beeing honoured
[01:04:51] <alex_joni> but smthg is messed up in the process
[01:05:31] <paul_c> So look for [SET|GET]_MOTION_[COORD|TELEOP]_FLAG
[01:05:55] <alex_joni> already doing that
[01:06:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hunts COORD
[01:06:08] <alex_joni> based on :
[01:06:11] <paul_c> for those are the macros that handle the setting of the flags
[01:06:16] <alex_joni> Aug 12 00:50:32 localhost kernel: Motion flag 0007 -> 0001
[01:07:28] <alex_joni> I think I know what happens
[01:08:38] <alex_joni> the INPOS flag gets set to 0 somehow
[01:08:47] <alex_joni> and that leads to bad things
[01:08:55] <alex_joni> as the next mode change won't get honoured
[01:09:04] <alex_joni> else {
[01:09:05] <alex_joni> /* not in position-- don't honor mode change */
[01:09:05] <alex_joni> emcmotDebug->coordinating = 1;
[01:09:51] <Jacky^> night all
[01:10:29] <paul_c> Oh wtF....
[01:11:58] <alex_joni> no, it's supposed to do that
[01:12:06] <alex_joni> during a move you cannot change modes
[01:12:10] <alex_joni> as bad things will happen
[01:12:24] <paul_c> looked at motion_state....
[01:12:24] <alex_joni> and INPOS reflects that (or should)
[01:12:37] <alex_joni> that's not really used from what I see
[01:12:45] <paul_c> suggestion: Leave it for JMK to fix.
[01:13:37] <paul_c> I'm not going to spend any more time on it... (sorry anonimasu ).
[01:15:03] <paul_c> alex_joni: If I were you, update the bug report with your findings
[01:15:20] <alex_joni> anonimasu: try restarting emc
[01:15:22] <paul_c> and then go to bed.
[01:15:44] <anonimasu> paul_c: I dont bother more, I'll be running emc1 with the USC
[01:15:44] <anonimasu> :
[01:15:47] <anonimasu> :)
[01:15:49] <anonimasu> as for now..
[01:15:59] <anonimasu> until I get time to fiddle with a driver for emc2
[01:16:02] <anonimasu> if I ever..
[01:16:03] <anonimasu> :/
[01:16:03] <alex_joni> anonimasu: can you test if it works?
[01:16:08] <anonimasu> alex_joni: sure
[01:16:11] <alex_joni> heh.. maybe someone else will
[01:16:42] <anonimasu> locked up.
[01:16:51] <alex_joni> yup.. seen
[01:22:04] <alex_joni> ok.. try again please ;)
[01:22:09] <alex_joni> only 1-2 more times
[01:23:05] <alex_joni> anonimasu: still there?
[01:23:48] <anonimasu> yes
[01:24:11] <anonimasu> broke again..
[01:24:21] <alex_joni> ok
[01:24:28] <alex_joni> one more place where it can happen ;)
[01:24:49] <anonimasu> tell me when I should run it again
[01:25:12] <alex_joni> now
[01:26:14] <anonimasu> did you break it?
[01:26:26] <alex_joni> nope why?
[01:26:39] <anonimasu> I cant lock it up now..
[01:26:44] <alex_joni> it doesn't seem to lock up anymore ;)
[01:26:56] <anonimasu> you broke it.
[01:27:05] <alex_joni> dang
[01:27:22] <anonimasu> BASE_PERIOD = 0.000025
[01:27:23] <anonimasu> heh
[01:27:25] <alex_joni> but it's only an ungly hack to see what causes the lockup
[01:27:28] <alex_joni> don't be too happy
[01:27:29] <alex_joni> ;)
[01:27:33] <anonimasu> it works..
[01:27:36] <alex_joni> you can try any period you like
[01:27:40] <alex_joni> BUT
[01:27:52] <anonimasu> oh it's the period I use
[01:28:00] <alex_joni> I don't expect it to work properly under any conditions
[01:28:08] <alex_joni> like: change modes during a jog
[01:28:32] <anonimasu> hm, I usually dont :)
[01:29:07] <alex_joni> I guess now
[01:29:07] <alex_joni> not
[01:29:47] <anonimasu> :)
[01:33:24] <alex_joni> ok. going to update the info on the bugtracker
[01:41:02] <alex_joni> anonimasu: enjoy your emc2 ;)
[01:41:34] <anonimasu> alex_joni: thanks :9
[01:41:45] <alex_joni> np
[01:41:50] <alex_joni> going to bed now
[08:40:43] <alex_joni> morning
[08:56:51] <HacKjoB> anyone home ?
[08:59:14] <alex_joni> hello
[08:59:39] <HacKjoB> Hi
[08:59:44] <HacKjoB> new here.
[08:59:44] <alex_joni> what's up?
[08:59:48] <alex_joni> welcome ;)
[08:59:52] <HacKjoB> thx
[09:00:01] <HacKjoB> curious.
[09:00:24] <HacKjoB> I have several machining centers, but emc seems cool
[09:00:38] <alex_joni> it is :D
[09:00:47] <HacKjoB> how to handle tool changers and that I wondering.
[09:01:05] <alex_joni> well.. I would chose emc2 for that
[09:01:14] <HacKjoB> ahh okay
[09:01:17] <alex_joni> there is a software-PLC component for that
[09:01:26] <alex_joni> classicladder it's called
[09:01:36] <alex_joni> so you can do PLC programming for the toolchanging
[09:01:39] <HacKjoB> looks like its still under development though
[09:01:49] <alex_joni> a bit ;)
[09:01:51] <HacKjoB> okay
[09:01:55] <alex_joni> I mean.. it always is
[09:02:42] <HacKjoB> toolchanger, pallet changer and specific feedrate and spindle pots would be important.
[09:02:57] <alex_joni> can you describe your needs for a toolchanging?
[09:02:59] <HacKjoB> the rest is basically fluff.
[09:03:16] <HacKjoB> as a sequence, yes.
[09:03:23] <alex_joni> like the exact steps the machine needs to take to change the tool
[09:03:34] <alex_joni> move to unload position, etc.
[09:03:57] <alex_joni> * alex_joni lacks the knowledge of actual machining
[09:03:58] <HacKjoB> at each point if theres a failure then the prox sensor doesnt satisfy, yes i can describe that.
[09:04:13] <alex_joni> I only do some software ;)
[09:04:19] <HacKjoB> Ahh
[09:04:22] <alex_joni> and build my own toy to use with emc :D
[09:04:30] <HacKjoB> Im mostly a machinist.
[09:04:33] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.utt.ro/~juve/emc/mytoy/
[09:07:51] <HacKjoB> Okay
[09:09:49] <HacKjoB> 3 servos, interesting concept
[09:09:56] <alex_joni> 3 steppers
[09:10:30] <HacKjoB> same diff
[09:10:56] <alex_joni> right
[09:11:21] <HacKjoB> open loop generally, or used to be.
[09:11:39] <HacKjoB> cool though.
[09:12:39] <HacKjoB> You know Jon Elson--he frequents a newsgroup I read sometimes ?
[09:13:31] <alex_joni> JonE does the USC
[09:13:46] <alex_joni> and other products, that are supported by emc
[09:13:57] <alex_joni> no driver for emc2 though.. yet
[09:14:16] <HacKjoB> Okay.
[09:14:43] <HacKjoB> Anything that will do a single axis ?
[09:14:55] <HacKjoB> feed bar stock into a saw ?
[09:15:25] <HacKjoB> dumb question I know.
[09:16:10] <HacKjoB> would like to set like 4in.
[09:16:24] <alex_joni> sure
[09:16:30] <HacKjoB> feeds 4in at each cycle, then shuts off.
[09:16:30] <alex_joni> but you won't need emc for that
[09:16:48] <alex_joni> there is a new thingie, called HAL
[09:16:52] <HacKjoB> Ya but you already said your a programmer <G>
[09:16:55] <alex_joni> Hardware Abstraction Layer
[09:17:06] <alex_joni> it is used in EMC2 to wrap around hardware
[09:17:07] <HacKjoB> hal then it is.
[09:17:34] <HacKjoB> feed 12 ft bars into milling machine.
[09:17:38] <alex_joni> but in HAL you have frequency generators
[09:18:02] <alex_joni> so you could set up a freq gen to output pulses for 4ipm
[09:18:11] <alex_joni> and let it run for 10 secs, or so
[09:18:23] <alex_joni> or an exact number of steps from the encoder
[09:18:26] <alex_joni> you get the picture
[09:18:31] <HacKjoB> We are sawing barstock, clamping into cnc machining center one at a time.
[09:18:43] <alex_joni> there is some software to be written though
[09:18:50] <alex_joni> maybe even a GUI for the operator
[09:18:58] <alex_joni> to let him select how much stock you need
[09:18:59] <HacKjoB> would rather place complete bars.
[09:19:07] <alex_joni> at what speed to move the bars
[09:19:08] <alex_joni> etc
[09:19:21] <HacKjoB> doesnt have to be very fast.
[09:19:25] <alex_joni> right
[09:19:38] <HacKjoB> a pair of vices,
[09:20:03] <HacKjoB> shove the finished part into a catch conveyor
[09:21:04] <HacKjoB> a handfull of io
[09:21:26] <HacKjoB> is all
[09:22:09] <HacKjoB> Ther is 4th axis, but it repeats in absolute every rotation.
[09:22:43] <HacKjoB> coding could be cumbersome using g code for an axis that was meant to be rotary.
[09:23:02] <HacKjoB> these are Fadal machining centers.
[09:23:50] <alex_joni> right
[09:23:54] <HacKjoB> pisses me off, their eprom only supports pallet changes on a 20 x 40 inch machine mode in the firmware.
[09:23:58] <alex_joni> well I think the tasks need to be split up
[09:24:31] <HacKjoB> Yes.
[09:24:56] <HacKjoB> I have specific 'm' functions i can call
[09:25:01] <alex_joni> could you drop an e-mail explaining the toolchanging stuff you need?
[09:25:10] <HacKjoB> extras on the board.
[09:25:18] <alex_joni> best to the emc-developers list on sourceforge.net
[09:25:43] <HacKjoB> That is down the road some, best for me to mostly lurk here, IMO
[09:26:04] <alex_joni> heh.. ok
[09:26:05] <HacKjoB> as the toolchangers I have work fine as is.
[09:26:11] <HacKjoB> <G>
[09:26:20] <alex_joni> well, do it IBM style then
[09:26:27] <alex_joni> 'never touch a running system'
[09:26:27] <alex_joni> :D
[09:26:30] <HacKjoB> Getting late here.
[09:26:40] <alex_joni> getting early here ;)
[09:26:45] <alex_joni> [11:28] <HacKjoB> Getting late here.
[09:26:48] <alex_joni> that's AM
[09:27:28] <HacKjoB> I have spare outputs, in case of a failure in a sequence I could simple initiate feed hold to the main controller.
[09:27:30] <alex_joni> you usually find folks from over the pond too
[09:27:48] <alex_joni> lurking in here, I mean
[09:28:07] <HacKjoB> oh IRC knows no time boundry, thats for sure
[09:28:28] <alex_joni> right
[09:28:33] <alex_joni> and it's best like that
[09:28:50] <HacKjoB> 1:30 am here, west coast US
[09:28:53] <alex_joni> also if you're afraid you missed smthg, there's a logger in here
[09:29:01] <alex_joni> logger_aj, bookmark
[09:29:01] <alex_joni> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-08-12#T09-29-01
[09:29:14] <HacKjoB> NO time to read logs really.
[09:29:28] <alex_joni> lol.. ok ;)
[09:29:30] <HacKjoB> Ill take my chances <G>
[09:29:35] <HacKjoB> hehe
[09:30:00] <HacKjoB> I read back some though.
[09:30:13] <alex_joni> well there are a few folks around here that might prove a nice company :)
[09:30:20] <HacKjoB> looks like a diverse buncha folks.
[09:30:32] <alex_joni> right
[09:31:19] <alex_joni> we got guys from the US, UK, sweden, Italy
[09:32:07] <HacKjoB> I mainly just have some motion control issues I wanna work out, not necessarily will it be emc turns out to be the solution.
[09:33:20] <HacKjoB> Link to our products :
[09:33:22] <HacKjoB> http://www.thesmallshop.com/products.htm
[09:37:19] <HacKjoB> One more beer an its closin time.
[09:37:36] <alex_joni> heh
[09:38:05] <HacKjoB> heh
[09:38:14] <alex_joni> doesn't seem to work (the website), at least not from here :(
[09:38:42] <HacKjoB> Kill enough brain cells an I can become a neo-con like the rest the zombies we got here, eh ?
[09:38:52] <alex_joni> lol
[09:39:12] <HacKjoB> hmm thats odd, loads here just fine.
[09:39:31] <alex_joni> right.. seems there's smthg wrong here :)
[09:40:00] <HacKjoB> hmm I better look into that very soon then.
[09:40:13] <HacKjoB> http://www.thesmallshop.com/
[09:41:00] <HacKjoB> do me a favor try this one too then :
[09:41:03] <HacKjoB> http://www.kalamaprecision.com/
[09:41:22] <HacKjoB> both hosted from same server.
[09:42:26] <alex_joni> smthg's busted on my setup
[09:42:36] <alex_joni> the server works ok, tried from another host
[09:42:57] <HacKjoB> Okay had me going for a bit.
[09:46:22] <alex_joni> works now
[09:50:32] <HacKjoB> weird eh ?
[09:51:35] <HacKjoB> they customers use it to bend tiny bits of brass.
[09:53:19] <alex_joni> right
[09:54:20] <HacKjoB> so you can see where it would be advantagous for me to feed barstock now.
[09:54:31] <HacKjoB> instead of sawing it first.
[09:55:21] <alex_joni> I guess :D
[09:55:27] <HacKjoB> okay
[09:55:29] <alex_joni> not woken up completely yet
[09:55:32] <alex_joni> *g*
[09:55:33] <HacKjoB> lol
[09:55:40] <alex_joni> was up till 4am chasing a bug
[09:55:48] <alex_joni> emc2 bug, not a live one :))
[09:55:58] <HacKjoB> didja kill it ?
[09:56:04] <alex_joni> I trapped it
[09:56:11] <HacKjoB> good.
[09:56:17] <alex_joni> not fully dead yet
[09:56:21] <alex_joni> I'll let it starve
[09:56:23] <alex_joni> *g*
[09:56:42] <alex_joni> it's a bit more sadistic, but it'll warn other bugs to stay away
[09:56:43] <alex_joni> LOL
[09:56:57] <HacKjoB> see what effect there is in quaranineing it
[09:57:46] <HacKjoB> I got a linux box here my son set up about 3 years ago went dead recently.
[09:58:07] <HacKjoB> 4 disc drives, in a raid 0 array
[09:58:11] <alex_joni> coo
[09:58:14] <HacKjoB> one went dead
[09:58:55] <HacKjoB> I got it spinning again, replaced the top board on the drive.
[09:59:15] <HacKjoB> now gotta hound him to get it runniong again
[09:59:24] <alex_joni> nice
[09:59:35] <HacKjoB> yea
[09:59:49] <HacKjoB> okay Im gone
[09:59:56] <alex_joni> night
[10:00:01] <HacKjoB> *poof*
[10:00:04] <HacKjoB> nn
[10:00:12] <HacKjoB> Thx for the info
[10:11:26] <robin_sz> meep?
[10:12:40] <robin_sz> and, it looks like the Softools license sillyness is solved too ...
[10:13:44] <alex_joni> weeb?
[10:14:05] <alex_joni> it looks like it, but they _really_ should rewrite that part
[10:20:10] <alex_joni> robin_sz: check this out
[10:20:11] <alex_joni> http://www.frars.org.uk/images/contentimages/1145.jpg
[10:41:07] <alex_joni> http://www.stealthmicrowave.com/2_4.htm
[11:08:59] <Jacky^> morning
[11:09:13] <alex_joni> not really
[11:09:17] <alex_joni> good day
[11:09:29] <Jacky^> what happening ?
[11:09:40] <Jacky^> bad weather here..
[11:09:41] <anonimasu> moring
[11:09:49] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu :)
[11:09:53] <alex_joni> heh, someone else not fully woken up
[11:10:08] <Jacky^> i'm too..
[11:10:10] <anonimasu> alex_joni: ah, I've got caffine.
[11:10:17] <Jacky^> *_*
[11:10:22] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is going to take the mill for a real spin this afternoon
[11:10:26] <anonimasu> and make some real parts :)
[11:11:05] <Jacky^> anonimasu: 10 hp ?
[11:11:10] <Jacky^> :P
[11:11:17] <anonimasu> what?
[11:11:22] <Jacky^> mill
[11:11:27] <anonimasu> me?
[11:11:27] <anonimasu> no
[11:11:41] <anonimasu> but I have motor + pump for a huydralic spindle.. that'd give me several kw ;)
[11:11:54] <Jacky^> nice
[11:12:54] <anonimasu> but I'd need to rebuild the column to use it
[11:13:26] <Jacky^> how much weight ?
[11:13:51] <anonimasu> dont know..
[11:13:57] <anonimasu> less then the electric motor I have there now
[11:14:07] <anonimasu> but to get it more rigid..
[11:15:35] <Jacky^> wich material will machine ?
[11:15:39] <Jacky^> aluminium
[11:15:42] <Jacky^> ?
[11:15:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:15:59] <anonimasu> mostly
[11:16:07] <alex_joni> dural
[11:16:13] <Jacky^> no need coolant for aluminum right ?
[11:16:15] <anonimasu> well, any aluminium + steel
[11:16:17] <anonimasu> eh
[11:16:18] <anonimasu> yes
[11:16:21] <Jacky^> :)
[11:16:27] <anonimasu> you NEED coolant..
[11:16:34] <Jacky^> ah..
[11:16:38] <anonimasu> I use wd40 usually
[11:16:40] <Jacky^> air ?
[11:16:41] <anonimasu> or dry machine..
[11:16:44] <anonimasu> with just air..
[11:16:46] <anonimasu> but it's not enough
[11:16:48] <Jacky^> ah ok
[11:17:35] <anonimasu> air helps lots, but it dosent compare to flood coolant ;)
[11:17:37] <anonimasu> or mist..
[11:17:46] <anonimasu> but mist isnt too good if you havent got good ventilation
[11:17:52] <Jacky^> but is inexpensive
[11:18:02] <anonimasu> expensive?
[11:18:05] <alex_joni> mist = crap
[11:18:08] <Jacky^> ine
[11:18:28] <alex_joni> anonimasu: in german that is ;)
[11:18:36] <anonimasu> heh
[11:18:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu tried running mist it cut well..
[11:18:49] <anonimasu> but I had a thick fog in the shop
[11:18:58] <anonimasu> it started to hurt in the eyes ;)
[11:19:10] <Jacky^> uhmm
[11:20:19] <Jacky^> i'm going to check and double check controllers on my little machine
[11:20:37] <Jacky^> i think PS may is not enough ..
[11:21:11] <alex_joni> anonimasu: tried emc2?
[11:21:16] <alex_joni> after the hack?
[11:23:10] <Jacky^> alex_joni: could you tell me the rilevant advantages of emc2 ?
[11:23:17] <Jacky^> i never tried..
[11:23:33] <alex_joni> Jacky^: easy to install :D
[11:23:40] <alex_joni> compiles on most RT platforms
[11:23:48] <alex_joni> HAL is _very_ configurable
[11:23:55] <alex_joni> works on 2.6
[11:24:04] <alex_joni> will have a STG driver *g*
[11:24:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni still works on that
[11:24:25] <alex_joni> according to anonimasu it works a bit better than emc1
[11:24:31] <Jacky^> :-)
[11:24:39] <alex_joni> it has i18n support
[11:24:49] <alex_joni> you could do an italian translation of TkEmc
[11:25:02] <alex_joni> even if you don
[11:25:05] <alex_joni> don't program
[11:25:07] <Jacky^> ah..
[11:25:17] <Jacky^> i'm not interesting in translation
[11:25:24] <alex_joni> maybe someone else is ;)
[11:25:26] <Jacky^> i'm tryng to learn english :P
[11:25:28] <alex_joni> you could do it :D
[11:25:29] <alex_joni> lol
[11:25:29] <Jacky^> hehe
[11:25:31] <Jacky^> nice
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "File" "Fisier"
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "Open..." "Deschide"
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "Edit..." "Editeaza"
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "Reset" "Reseteaza"
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "Exit" "Iesire"
[11:25:57] <alex_joni> ::msgcat::mcset ro "View" "Vizualizare"
[11:26:02] <alex_joni> smthg like this
[11:26:22] <alex_joni> leave the text on the left in english, translate the one on the right to italian
[11:26:31] <Jacky^> i could run it on debian i suppose..
[11:26:40] <alex_joni> right
[11:26:50] <Jacky^> compiling a new kernel right ?
[11:26:55] <Jacky^> with RT
[11:27:26] <alex_joni> you don't necessarly need to compile a new kernel
[11:27:35] <alex_joni> if you've got a working BDI, then you're set
[11:28:18] <Jacky^> ok, thanks :)
[11:28:26] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Compile_EMC2
[11:28:54] <alex_joni> to compile emc2 you need to issue:
[11:28:54] <alex_joni> cd ~/emc2/src
[11:28:54] <alex_joni> ./configure
[11:28:54] <alex_joni> make
[11:29:04] <alex_joni> and that's it ;)
[11:29:11] <Jacky^> :D
[11:29:15] <alex_joni> emc1 is way more complicated than that
[11:29:19] <Jacky^> i will try
[11:29:20] <alex_joni> you got to compile rcslib
[11:29:22] <alex_joni> then emc
[11:29:27] <alex_joni> both with 2 PLAT's
[11:29:29] <alex_joni> etc
[11:33:14] <Jacky^> ok
[11:34:35] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[11:37:36] <Jacky^> Y axis on my machine have input_scale double respect to XZ
[11:37:41] <Jacky^> is it normal ?
[11:38:03] <Jacky^> it have same motor, same leadscrew and pitch
[11:39:38] <anonimasu> 3no
[11:40:05] <anonimasu> never
[11:40:21] <Jacky^> leadscrew is 6mm pitch 1 mm , stepper is 200/rev.
[11:40:39] <Jacky^> so , input scale is 200.000
[11:40:54] <Jacky^> for XZ it work fine
[11:41:00] <Jacky^> not for Y
[11:41:44] <Jacky^> is the Y axis working in half step ?
[11:43:26] <Jacky^> ic's are L297-298
[11:45:58] <Jacky^> pin 19 of L297 seem are used to switch half/full
[11:46:21] <Jacky^> it is in state low
[11:46:31] <Jacky^> that should be right, i suppose..
[11:57:45] <anonimasu> hm
[11:57:56] <anonimasu> the usc works but it ferrors as soon as I move a axis..
[11:57:57] <anonimasu> strange
[11:59:43] <anonimasu> it works with the default config and "
[12:05:23] <anonimasu> seems like input_scale is fscked
[12:23:28] <anonimasu> hey paul
[12:23:40] <anonimasu> paul_c: are you away of anything regarding input_scale on the USC?
[12:23:55] <anonimasu> it seems like it's scaled differently then when using freqmod..
[12:26:37] <paul_c> INPUT_SCALE = number of steps per unit
[12:26:48] <paul_c> OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000
[12:27:00] <anonimasu> paul_c: that is strange
[12:27:04] <anonimasu> input_scale = 640
[12:27:10] <anonimasu> output_scale = 1
[12:27:15] <anonimasu> ferrors..
[12:27:20] <anonimasu> I mailed jon and asked him it it were the same
[12:27:31] <paul_c> what's the ferror(s) set to ?
[12:27:33] <anonimasu> I might have too few pulses/divider on the usc set wrong..
[12:27:39] <anonimasu> ferror = 1.0
[12:27:47] <anonimasu> min_ferror = 0.01
[12:27:55] <anonimasu> it works with the inch config
[12:28:04] <anonimasu> with input_scale set to -65000
[12:28:07] <anonimasu> or whatever it is
[12:28:39] <paul_c> increase ferror to 5 and min_ferror to 0.1 (for starters)
[12:29:25] <paul_c> You may find the default PID gains are too high for metric
[12:29:34] <anonimasu> does it use PID?
[12:29:42] <anonimasu> oh, well I guess I have my error there :)
[12:31:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu will go outside in a couple of hours again
[13:38:19] <A_Guy> outside is over rated
[13:50:45] <anonimasu> hm, outside to the shop
[14:55:02] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[14:55:55] <alex_joni> paul_c: hello
[14:57:06] <paul_c> hrmmm ?
[14:57:14] <alex_joni> wot's up?
[14:57:57] <alex_joni> heh.. Jymmm is up
[14:57:59] <paul_c> (quick, hide)
[14:58:21] <alex_joni> paul_c: did the stuff I posted on the mode change bug make sense?
[14:58:27] <alex_joni> I mean.. was it inteligible?
[14:59:28] <paul_c> lemme look.
[14:59:56] <Jymmm> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=122-655
[15:00:22] <Jymmm> Are they saying two 24V sec @ 115v pri?
[15:00:48] <Jymmm> whic would be two 12v sec @ 230V pri?
[15:02:52] <paul_c> no. It would still be two 24V sec @ 230V
[15:03:06] <Jymmm> how is that?
[15:03:09] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home...
[15:03:10] <alex_joni> later guys
[15:03:14] <Jymmm> cya
[15:03:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: start the day with coffee
[15:03:25] <alex_joni> plenty of it
[15:03:27] <alex_joni> :P
[15:03:56] <Jymmm> oh, two 115 in series?
[15:04:05] <paul_c> yup.
[15:04:10] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[15:04:26] <Jymmm> so kind rev from typical transformers
[15:05:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm thinks he'll take up alex' suggestion =)
[15:05:41] <Jymmm> brb
[15:17:23] <Jymmm> ok, coffee brewing...
[15:19:14] <Jymmm> Alright, if I wire this up for 230V pri, but only apply 115V instead of 230v, I'll get half the sec voltage, but the same current rating?
[15:20:42] <Jymmm> way too early to be thinking =(
[15:46:16] <robin_sz> sounds about right ...
[15:46:58] <robin_sz> typically transformers run on lower voltages are OK, its when you run them on higher voltages tha intended that it all starts to go tits up
[15:47:29] <anonimasu> :)
[15:47:45] <robin_sz> hey,, my computer survived ...
[15:47:50] <robin_sz> i thought it might be damaged
[15:48:25] <robin_sz> I came >< this close to beating it to death with a hammer
[15:48:34] <robin_sz> sodding Mozilla thunderbird
[15:49:41] <anonimasu> hm
[15:54:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm gives robin_sz a cookie
[15:56:05] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ Jacky^ gives robin_sz pizza
[15:56:27] <Jacky^> hello Jymmm :P
[15:56:34] <Jymmm> howdy Jacky^
[15:57:26] <Jacky^> i'm moving optical switches of my machine in correct position
[15:57:48] <Jacky^> i extended X axis of 10 cm :D
[16:13:49] <Jymmm> I has a Ni-MH battery leak in my camera's flash. Anyone know of anything I can put on a qtip and neutralize it?
[16:13:54] <Jymmm> s/has/had/
[16:14:47] <anonimasu> brb, playing with the mill..
[16:14:54] <anonimasu> going to try and get the PID stuff sane
[16:15:02] <Jymmm> I usually use baking soda for such things, but I can't get to the battery terminals
[16:40:17] <anonimasu> hm
[16:40:19] <anonimasu> no luck
[17:13:33] <Jymmm> no luck with what?
[17:15:23] <anonimasu> getting the USC to work.
[18:00:03] <Jymmm> any reply back from Jon by chance?
[18:00:17] <Jymmm> Just got off the phone with Energizer... They lifetime warranty *ALL* their products, even if discontinued.
[18:15:00] <anonimasu> no
[18:15:06] <anonimasu> Jymmm: why did you call them?
[18:15:42] <anonimasu> yes
[18:15:43] <anonimasu> i did
[18:16:22] <Jymmm> Due to the batteries and charger I have
[18:16:49] <anonimasu> ah
[18:16:57] <anonimasu> it's a matter of tuning the PID loop
[18:36:38] <les> hi
[18:36:47] <les> ROBIN you here?
[18:37:09] <les> robin is a toroid guy
[18:37:47] <Jymmm> les hi
[18:37:51] <les> I want to confirm the atx power supply ones are Size T94 mix 26 powdered iron
[18:38:10] <Jymmm> you want the ATX specs?
[18:38:54] <Jymmm> Near the bottom --> http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/atx.htm
[18:39:03] <les> I need a little inductance to cancel the shunt capacitance of these piezos an want to just hand wind a little toroid inductor
[18:39:29] <les> so I pulled one from a popped atx supply
[18:39:39] <les> it's just the right frequency range
[18:39:39] <Jymmm> les : I had a Ni-MH battery leak in my camera's flash. Know of anything I can put on a qtip and neutralize it?
[18:39:46] <Jymmm> ah, cool
[18:40:19] <les> I think the electrolyte is sodium hydroxide
[18:40:27] <les> so something acid
[18:40:31] <les> vinegar
[18:41:00] <Jymmm> I use to use baking soda and water, but I'm chicken to use water in the flash
[18:41:16] <Jymmm> vinegar sounds good.
[18:41:35] <les> well baking soda, like sodium hydroxide, is alkaline
[18:42:02] <Jymmm> it works on cleaning car batteries.
[18:42:19] <les> yeah...car batteries are sufuric acid
[18:42:26] <Jymmm> I thuought baking soda was a base?
[18:42:42] <les> it is. That is another word for alkaline
[18:42:59] <Jymmm> ah =) I was getting stoned during that class =)
[18:43:04] <les> haha
[18:43:28] <les> hmm I have no magnet wire
[18:43:35] <les> trip to rat shack?
[18:43:38] <Jymmm> take apart a fan
[18:43:49] <Jymmm> 20" box fan == $9
[18:43:52] <les> heh
[18:44:07] <Jymmm> RS is too small.... I have some
[18:44:24] <les> They may not have any
[18:44:37] <Jymmm> but vinager WILL or SHOULD work?
[18:45:06] <les> I just want to test that inductance on the piezo today
[18:45:13] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[18:45:47] <les> vinegar....hmmm will neutralize and make sodeum acetate salt
[18:45:53] <les> sodium
[18:46:06] <Jacky^> hi
[18:46:17] <les> yeah I think it's safe...rinse with water
[18:46:22] <les> hi jacky
[18:46:57] <Jacky^> max feedrate i can get with my steppers is 360, too slow ?
[18:46:58] <Jymmm> les: ok, thanks. Trying to save my $400 camera flash from an early death
[18:48:26] <les> I just googled nickel metal hydride vinegar and got a zillion hits
[18:48:37] <les> so I think it's ok
[18:49:15] <les> jacky 360 is awfully slow for wood
[18:50:05] <Jacky^> steppers are 2A, 200 step /rev. controllers are using L297-L298
[18:50:15] <les> Try using a hand router at that speed....
[18:50:17] <les> burn
[18:50:40] <les> 360 is ok for metal and some plastics
[18:52:16] <les> I think about the slowest you could go on typical wood is about 1000-1500
[18:52:32] <Jacky^> mmmm
[18:52:41] <les> some industrial units cut at 20+ meters/min
[18:52:44] <Jacky^> i will never cut wood so..
[18:53:18] <les> well you can use very low rpm but finish will be rough
[18:53:21] <Jacky^> up to 360 i get no following error
[18:53:27] <les> right
[18:53:36] <Jacky^> but the motors lost steps
[18:53:46] <Jacky^> it seem to me..
[18:53:50] <les> you are full stepping right?
[18:53:57] <Jacky^> yeah
[18:54:28] <les> yeah. mid band resonance. Half stepping would be beter.
[18:54:30] <les> or
[18:54:56] <les> put a n absorptive coupling between the motor anf load
[18:54:59] <Jymmm> les: Can I rinse with denatured alcohol insted of water (after the vinegar)?
[18:55:10] <les> is it leadscrew?
[18:55:29] <Jacky^> les: leadscrew 6 mm pitch 1 mm
[18:56:02] <les> jymmm water is to disolve the sodium acetate. Alcohol would be great after to remove any trace of water left
[18:56:20] <les> hmm
[18:56:21] <Jymmm> les : ok, will do. thanks =)
[18:57:14] <les> Sometimes I just grab part of a leadscrew while it is turning (with oily rag) to make some friction to stop missed steps from mid band resonances
[18:58:19] <Jacky^> i also used some oil
[18:58:30] <Jacky^> but i think the problem is in the motors
[18:58:47] <Jacky^> here is the motor i used: http://www.micromed.it/Elettronica/images/C018.jpg
[18:58:54] <les> full step systems need some friction to prevent resonance slipping sometimes
[18:58:57] <Jacky^> it should be 2A
[19:00:13] <les> yes I use those for things.
[19:00:26] <les> is that one bipolar (4 wire)?
[19:00:52] <Jacky^> it is 6 wire
[19:01:00] <Jacky^> where i'm using 4
[19:01:01] <les> ok. unipolar.
[19:01:09] <les> oh
[19:01:12] <les> haha
[19:01:14] <les> ok
[19:01:46] <les> using much series resistance?
[19:02:26] <Jacky^> you mean inductance of motor ?
[19:02:44] <Jacky^> i've no idea :\
[19:03:10] <les> oops
[19:03:16] <les> key stuck!
[19:03:45] <les> well, looks like you could use some more speed/power.
[19:03:55] <les> servo!
[19:04:05] <Jacky^> :)
[19:04:13] <les> the cards are so expensive though.
[19:04:24] <Jacky^> i know..
[19:04:51] <Jacky^> it seem do not exist any schematics online
[19:04:57] <Jacky^> i searched a lot
[19:05:00] <les> do you have a picture of your machine?
[19:05:05] <Jacky^> yeah
[19:05:11] <Jacky^> a moment..
[19:05:16] <les> k
[19:06:00] <Jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
[19:06:27] <les> looking
[19:06:50] <Jacky^> ohm for motor are 1.1
[19:07:44] <Jacky^> controller have a trimmer do adjust current for motor
[19:07:57] <Jacky^> and also a test point
[19:08:01] <les> oh I see..you are using a dremel
[19:08:12] <Jacky^> not now ..
[19:08:13] <les> you need the variable speed one!
[19:08:30] <Jacky^> i changed it with a black and decker router 30000 rpm
[19:08:59] <les> ok...that must be one of the edge trimmer types
[19:09:05] <Jacky^> talking about the current ,
[19:09:36] <Jacky^> the strange thing is that if i set controller for 2A the motor dont run
[19:09:57] <Jacky^> seem too much current
[19:10:06] <les> hmmm
[19:10:32] <Jacky^> it only work with low current
[19:10:34] <les> you know you can buy a speed control that will work with your present router
[19:11:04] <Jacky^> i will buy a bosh with electronic regulator
[19:11:27] <Jacky^> but I think on this machine i will not solve at all..
[19:11:59] <les> Yes...you need something a bit faster...even at min speed of 8000 rpm
[19:13:05] <les> anyway...biaw...must go to town to get some magnet wire
[19:13:16] <Jacky^> at the end of summer i will start to build a new machine
[19:13:21] <les> cool
[19:13:30] <Jacky^> :)
[19:18:07] <Jacky^> les: do you think a leadscrew of 8 mm could be better than 6 for my issue ?
[20:19:14] <les> back
[20:19:18] <Jymmm> wb
[20:19:27] <les> rat shack actually had magnet wire
[20:19:35] <les> can hardly imagine
[20:19:37] <Jymmm> yep, three roll pack
[20:19:41] <les> yup
[20:19:42] <LawrenceG> hi les
[20:19:44] <les> gotit
[20:19:52] <les> Hi Lawrence!
[20:20:44] <les> Having to wind a little toroid here...must cancel non motional capacitance of this piezo
[20:20:57] <LawrenceG> if you need more wire, take apart some old transformers... microwave oven is a good start!
[20:21:04] <les> yeah
[20:21:42] <les> well I was already desperate...using a T94 mix 26 core from burned atx supply
[20:21:57] <LawrenceG> sounds like fun... I'm just building a constant current source for a possible servo drive
[20:22:11] <les> yellow white is supposed to be mix 26 anyway
[20:23:07] <LawrenceG> hard to say in the chinese power supplies.... should be the right range.... easy to try with different # of turns to see if you are getting close
[20:23:22] <les> My copleys in the big machine are set up as voltage controlled current sources
[20:23:39] <les> oh well those atx switchers are 30 kHz I think
[20:23:43] <les> I need 40
[20:23:47] <les> good mathc
[20:24:16] <LawrenceG> yea... my idea is to build a cc supply and then use the pwm to select the current...
[20:24:25] <LawrenceG> 0-100%
[20:24:37] <les> yup
[20:25:19] <LawrenceG> just doing a single quandrant now to see how the circuit behaves
[20:25:30] <les> Well torque mode works very well for me
[20:25:57] <les> all 5.6 kva of it!
[20:26:01] <les> peak..
[20:26:08] <LawrenceG> wish me luck popping fets... this is a nice design only 1 fet for the actual switch
[20:27:01] <les> Mine seem pretty durable even though my estop scheme actually disconnects moving servos and shorts them
[20:27:36] <les> Copley eng said the freewheel diodes would protect...but I put some transorbs across them for a little extra
[20:27:52] <LawrenceG> made a proto pcb on my mill (kind off.... only drilled a piece of formica and will handwire traces)
[20:28:08] <les> heh
[20:28:34] <les> I need to make one of those toroid bobbin things
[20:28:52] <LawrenceG> power electronics is fun.... easy to see where the smoke gets out!
[20:28:59] <les> yeah
[20:29:13] <les> I did some big audio amps
[20:29:22] <LawrenceG> how many turns do you need?
[20:29:31] <les> designed one around APEX pa 05 devices
[20:29:49] <LawrenceG> * LawrenceG looking for links
[20:30:00] <les> oh....just a rough calc around 3 millihenries
[20:30:20] <les> 50-100 turns
[20:30:48] <les> it changes depending on the air cavity tuning so I will just play it by ear
[20:31:12] <les> apex?
[20:31:19] <les> those things are wild!
[20:31:53] <LawrenceG> www.apexmicrotech.com show service unavailable
[20:32:07] <les> hmmm I went to their site and they are down!
[20:32:32] <les> looks kinda like an out of business thing huh?
[20:32:37] <les> yikes
[20:33:33] <LawrenceG> found a datasheet... looks like a servo amp!
[20:33:56] <LawrenceG> http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/ApexMicrotechnologyCorporation/mXrxyux.pdf
[20:34:39] <les> here it is also:
[20:34:42] <les> http://eportal.apexmicrotech.com/mainsite/products/pages/op_amps/pa05.asp
[20:35:31] <LawrenceG> what kind of $$?
[20:36:35] <les> fre for me.
[20:36:37] <les> haha
[20:36:47] <LawrenceG> best price !
[20:36:59] <les> they are expensive. several hundred I think.
[20:37:14] <les> A cople of them make quite an audio amp
[20:37:34] <les> 1000 wrms 8 ohm
[20:37:41] <les> a good bit more 4 ohm
[20:38:01] <les> 6 kva peak for a pair
[20:38:26] <LawrenceG> yep... that is quite a power op amp
[20:38:46] <les> I used it in conjuction with burr brown op 604 input stage
[20:38:57] <les> GIANT transformer
[20:39:29] <les> The devices are bolted on .75" thick case walls
[20:39:39] <les> aluminum
[20:39:55] <les> they have very good dissipation
[20:40:05] <les> beryllium substrate
[20:40:12] <les> oxide
[20:40:46] <les> Right now that amp runs my...um...mid bass drivers.
[20:40:48] <les> haha
[20:40:57] <LawrenceG> nice 2us rise time and distortion levels are awesum
[20:41:19] <les> yes they are very good
[20:41:21] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[20:41:26] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[20:41:34] <les> I need more engineering samples!
[20:42:03] <LawrenceG> thats the trouble when the keep inventing more channels on the stereo!
[20:42:13] <les> It is always scary to power up big linear amps like that for the first time
[20:42:21] <les> use a big variac
[20:42:43] <les> ground loops are tough too even with carefull star grounding
[20:43:07] <LawrenceG> kind of hard on the things they are connected to as well.... failures tend to take the outputs to one of the power rails
[20:44:05] <LawrenceG> well... if I am to get this thing running today, I better power up the soldering iron
[20:44:08] <les> On that to get the very lowest humI had to hook a groundup, wind one turn around the outside of the transformer, and hook it to another ground point
[20:44:13] <les> ok
[20:44:32] <les> and I better wind toroids.
[20:44:43] <LawrenceG> good luck
[20:44:50] <les> ty later
[21:48:29] <jacky^^> anyone know hot to minimize following errors using freqmod ?
[21:48:56] <cradek> several things can cause them
[21:49:05] <cradek> trying to go to fast for a given PERIOD setting
[21:49:16] <cradek> to go TOO fast
[21:50:30] <jacky^^> Period should be ok ..
[21:51:02] <jacky^^> paul gave me some help days ago..
[21:51:29] <jacky^^> he sayd i can reduce a lot following errors too
[21:51:51] <jacky^^> but i don't know wich variables to change
[21:52:12] <cradek> do you get a following error on every axis or just one?
[21:52:42] <jacky^^> i'm getting low speed on all axis: 360
[21:53:02] <jacky^^> i'm tryng to get axis working more fast
[21:53:49] <jacky^^> period is 0.000020 and seem work fine
[21:54:15] <cradek> is that 360 mm/min?
[21:54:44] <jacky^^> yeah.. i think so, i'm using mm as unit
[21:54:51] <cradek> that's 14ipm
[21:54:58] <cradek> I get 22ipm with PERIOD .000024
[21:55:05] <jacky^^> the value i read from gui is 360 (mini)
[21:55:07] <cradek> what is your SCALE?
[21:55:21] <jacky^^> 200.000
[21:56:14] <cradek> wow, that should be very easy to get faster than 14ipm
[21:56:36] <cradek> is this emc1?
[21:56:36] <jacky^^> it doesnt :(
[21:56:42] <jacky^^> yeah, emc1
[21:56:52] <cradek> what is P,I,D?
[21:57:12] <jacky^^> P = 100.000 (suggested by paul)
[21:57:25] <jacky^^> I = 0.000
[21:57:34] <jacky^^> D = 0.000
[21:57:40] <cradek> that's very close to what I use
[21:57:42] <cradek> P=80 here
[21:57:49] <cradek> should be fine
[21:57:56] <cradek> is your MAX_ACCELERATION very slow?
[21:58:21] <cradek> what triggers the FE? jogging?
[21:58:48] <jacky^^> max_accelleration in [traj] section is 20
[22:00:11] <jacky^^> cradek: yeah, jogging
[22:00:19] <cradek> that's mm/s/s
[22:00:28] <cradek> doesn't that mean it will take 18 seconds to accelerate to full speed?
[22:00:34] <Jymmm> cradek : I remembered! What Rx did you use in your nixie clock (such a tiny enclosure).
[22:00:52] <cradek> Jymmm: external receiver
[22:00:59] <Jymmm> oh man..............
[22:01:25] <jacky^^> cradek: no idea, but it doesnt seem to take 18 sec. to accellerate
[22:01:45] <jacky^^> hi Jymmm
[22:02:18] <Jymmm> hi
[22:03:03] <cradek> jacky^^: my config is in inches so I'm not able to help you by comparing
[22:04:00] <jacky^^> cradek: ok, np ;)
[22:04:15] <cradek> my MAX_ACCELERATION is 128.0
[22:04:28] <cradek> I think that's in/s/s
[22:04:38] <cradek> so for you the equivalent would be 3251.2
[22:04:55] <jacky^^> uhm..
[22:05:13] <jacky^^> servos or stepper ?
[22:05:14] <cradek> so your ACCEL might be set incorrectly very low
[22:05:18] <cradek> steppers
[22:05:29] <jacky^^> i'm too
[22:05:29] <cradek> freqmod
[22:05:35] <jacky^^> right..
[22:06:02] <cradek> my steppers can accel from 0 to full speed in a blink
[22:06:11] <jacky^^> wow
[22:07:00] <cradek> where full speed = 25in/min
[22:07:05] <cradek> (not very fast!)
[22:08:26] <jacky^^> not slow ..
[22:08:31] <jacky^^> as the mine
[22:08:33] <jacky^^> :\
[22:10:04] <cradek> do you get the FE immediately when you start the jog, or after it gets up to speed?
[22:11:35] <jacky^^> after it gets up to speed
[22:12:36] <cradek> maybe you should ask on the mailing list
[22:13:22] <jacky^^> ok
[22:13:49] <jacky^^> here's my ini file if someone want to take a look: http://rafb.net/paste/results/g1Xyz633.html
[22:20:53] <jacky^^> hi paul
[22:21:01] <cradek> paul_c: run!
[22:21:10] <paul_c> * paul_c runs like hell.
[22:21:27] <paul_c> You'll never catch me Forest Gump.
[22:21:44] <cradek> the running part was the stupidest part of that movie
[22:22:56] <jacky^^> paul_c: could you tell me please the variables to check for minimize following error using freqmod ?
[22:23:12] <paul_c> metric setup ?
[22:23:19] <jacky^^> yeah, mm
[22:23:45] <paul_c> Let's start from the top.... What is the period set to ?
[22:24:07] <jacky^^> i pasted my ini right now..
[22:24:14] <jacky^^> http://rafb.net/paste/results/g1Xyz633.html
[22:24:36] <paul_c> 'k... 20uSec....
[22:24:37] <jacky^^> if you remember pc was crashing
[22:24:43] <jacky^^> before
[22:24:52] <jacky^^> now work fine
[22:25:07] <jacky^^> the only problem is the speed on all axis
[22:25:16] <jacky^^> up to 360 i get following error
[22:25:25] <paul_c> 20uSec gives us a max step frequency of 25KHz....
[22:25:59] <paul_c> You have 400 & 200 steps per millimetre on the axis....
[22:26:03] <jacky^^> ah.. then is the max speed i cang get ?
[22:26:36] <paul_c> so abs. max would be 62.5mm/Sec & 125mm/Sec
[22:26:40] <jacky^^> understood
[22:27:05] <paul_c> divide by 4 to get a reasonable number...
[22:27:31] <paul_c> say... 15 & 30 mm/Sec
[22:28:01] <jacky^^> i would like to cut some wood part
[22:28:09] <jacky^^> i've the issue on the bits
[22:28:12] <cradek> I run successfully at 3333 steps/sec with period .000024
[22:28:16] <jacky^^> all burned ..
[22:28:23] <jacky^^> after some job
[22:28:44] <jacky^^> speed router is to fast: 30.000 rpm
[22:28:52] <cradek> (25in/m 8000steps/in)
[22:29:46] <jacky^^> paul_c: do you think FERROR and MIN_FERROR are ok ?
[22:30:02] <jacky^^> 4.000 and 1.000
[22:30:30] <jacky^^> are the default values ..
[22:30:30] <paul_c> one sec...
[22:32:11] <paul_c> punching some numbers in...
[22:32:34] <jacky^^> ok
[22:39:56] <jacky^^> mmm.. i think my steppers are craps
[22:40:05] <jacky^^> thanks paul_c
[22:40:47] <paul_c> another run...
[22:44:43] <jacky^^> i will slow down the speed on my router in some way
[22:45:59] <paul_c> OK... Under each AXIS_n section, velocity=8 & accel=20
[22:46:21] <jacky^^> ok
[22:46:29] <paul_c> gets us a top speed of 500mm/Min
[22:47:14] <jacky^^> nice
[22:47:21] <paul_c> use the same numbers for the TRAJ section..
[22:47:35] <jacky^^> ok..
[22:50:17] <paul_c> Once you have a baseline that works, you can increase vel & accel along with PID...
[22:52:55] <jacky^^> ok, speed is 480 now, no following errors
[22:54:02] <jacky^^> thanks a lot