#emc | Logs for 2005-07-22

[00:00:23] <roel01> !seen paul_c
[00:00:40] <Jacky^> nope..
[00:00:59] <Jacky^> in the last week nothing..
[00:01:11] <roel01> vacation !!
[00:01:13] <Jacky^> I think he's in holidays
[00:01:16] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:01:28] <roel01> states again !! :)
[00:01:42] <Jacky^> maybe.. i've no idea
[00:01:47] <Jacky^> :)
[00:02:54] <roel01> Jacky> so you have a toy machine
[00:03:12] <Jacky^> yes, really
[00:03:27] <roel01> cutting or milling jobs !
[00:03:52] <Jacky^> I would like to made some 3D relief on wood
[00:04:15] <Jacky^> the result is not bad at all, for now..
[00:04:39] <roel01> any pics around the net !
[00:04:47] <Jacky^> sure
[00:04:54] <roel01> lemma se :)
[00:04:57] <Jacky^> @ moment..
[00:05:34] <Jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
[00:08:35] <Jacky^> My budget is small, and for now, i'm just interesting in learn emc..
[00:09:40] <Jacky^> for example, I was looking at this project : http://vinvin.dyndns.org/projects/scanner.html
[00:09:57] <Jacky^> but can't find any software on the website :\
[00:10:41] <Jacky^> maybe, should not so difficult write it from myself, i will try..
[00:12:45] <roel01> pics looks nice a goot start you made
[00:13:01] <Jacky^> hehe.. not really
[00:13:08] <Jacky^> but work fine for me
[00:13:22] <roel01> for soft wood it wil work for sure
[00:13:39] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:13:45] <Jacky^> :)
[00:15:23] <roel01> the controllers made yourself aswel !
[00:16:16] <Jacky^> yeah, I solved a difficult issue with opto-limit switch here, tnx to Phydbleep
[00:16:55] <Jacky^> the controllers are very simple, L297-L298
[00:17:30] <roel01> thatz were frends are for hey
[00:17:51] <Jacky^> :-)
[00:19:04] <roel01> ow the L types chips works great
[00:19:45] <Jacky^> yes, I suppose
[00:24:10] <Jacky^> the parts more expensive has been the 3 joint: http://img-europe.electrocomponents.com/largeimages/C748342-01.jpg
[00:24:27] <Jacky^> Euro 19 everyone
[00:24:31] <Jacky^> :((
[00:26:20] <anonimasu> heh
[00:26:24] <anonimasu> cheap
[00:26:25] <anonimasu> :D
[00:26:37] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ sigh
[00:26:51] <anonimasu> seriously, stuff are ridiculously cheap everywhere but here :/
[00:27:10] <Jacky^> yeah
[00:27:11] <roel01> always dat way
[00:27:14] <anonimasu> I'd be glad if I could get thoose < 45 euro
[00:29:12] <anonimasu> :&
[00:30:02] <roel01> in a metal junk yard i almost got hit by some serius steppers
[00:31:17] <Jacky^> nice :)
[00:32:18] <roel01> they fall of a truck includet the control case all from berger lahrr
[00:32:31] <fenn> jacky you dont need those couplers for your machine
[00:32:41] <fenn> take a piece of vinyl or rubber tubing
[00:32:55] <fenn> hose clamp it to the leadscrew on one side, and to your motor shaft on the other
[00:33:11] <Jacky^> hi feen, I tried..
[00:33:54] <fenn> what happened?
[00:33:58] <Jacky^> motor was dancing :\
[00:34:11] <Jacky^> and big noise
[00:34:18] <anonimasu> Hmm, I threw my mail to picosystems now
[00:34:41] <roel01> and if they got hot !!it slips ore burn off
[00:35:18] <anonimasu> hopefully I'll be getting reply during tomorrow
[00:38:26] <anonimasu> :)
[00:38:36] <anonimasu> couplers are better though..
[00:39:21] <Jacky^> I was have too much alignment error :(
[00:39:36] <anonimasu> what?
[00:40:36] <Jacky^> the screw are also inexpensive.. about 30 cent
[00:41:31] <Jacky^> it could not work well without couplers
[00:41:56] <anonimasu> alignment is easier with real couplers
[00:42:00] <anonimasu> :)
[00:42:07] <Jacky^> sure
[00:42:14] <Jacky^> but
[00:43:13] <Jacky^> I can say, now there's no noise but for the rest it work as before..
[00:44:44] <Jacky^> was too bad heard the noise and see the motor moving
[00:45:50] <Jacky^> just for this, no improvement for the rest
[00:46:10] <anonimasu> what's the problem with the rest?
[00:46:24] <Jacky^> no problem
[00:46:50] <anonimasu> "no improvement for the rest"
[00:46:53] <Jacky^> I machined a part with and withou couplers, no difference
[00:47:18] <anonimasu> oh, peace of mind is a improvement..
[00:47:26] <Jacky^> :)
[00:47:44] <Jacky^> sure
[00:48:01] <anonimasu> a great one
[00:48:01] <anonimasu> :D
[00:48:13] <Jacky^> I would not have shown my machine to nobody in that way
[00:48:21] <roel01> i have to take some rest - lots of bruses on me boddy
[00:48:29] <anonimasu> roel01: ok do taht
[00:48:33] <anonimasu> that :)
[00:48:44] <fenn> yeah but $19 euro is probably more than your motors cost, right?
[00:49:18] <Jacky^> right, the motors are 10 euro
[00:49:22] <roel01> :)
[00:49:25] <Jacky^> anyone
[00:49:44] <fenn> it's so easy to spend huge amounts of money
[00:50:06] <Jacky^> not for me, really :(
[00:50:16] <fenn> heh that's what i mean
[00:50:25] <Jacky^> I know..
[00:58:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[01:02:02] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ agree with anonimasu
[01:03:34] <Jacky^> +_+ bedtime
[01:03:40] <Jacky^> night all
[01:03:46] <robin_sz> night
[01:06:04] <anonimasu> robin_sz: how are things going?
[01:06:18] <robin_sz> OK
[01:06:31] <robin_sz> laser ran most of today, so i guess thats a good thing
[01:06:35] <anonimasu> neat
[01:06:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ordered a USC from picosystems a bit ago
[01:06:54] <anonimasu> although I've yet to receive a reply
[01:07:00] <robin_sz> one customer had asked us to quote
[01:07:13] <robin_sz> and then only ordered some of the bits
[01:07:31] <robin_sz> other bits he ordered from another supplier ...
[01:07:34] <robin_sz> well ...
[01:08:01] <robin_sz> today he came in a panic .. he'd got the drawing worng ;) .. could we make them in 4 days?
[01:08:41] <robin_sz> so i made them in 2 hours, just to show him :)
[01:09:50] <anonimasu> neat
[01:28:25] <anonimasu> :D
[01:28:37] <anonimasu> hopefully the USC will make my emc box behave better
[01:30:16] <anonimasu> I wont be getting much more speed, but ~3m/min isnt too bad
[01:30:51] <Jymmm> behave better?
[01:31:00] <anonimasu> yeah
[01:31:11] <anonimasu> I've got the period set high to be able to crank out enough pulses
[01:31:48] <anonimasu> I wonder if I run 5x at the geckos, if so I'll be getting 5m/min
[01:31:57] <anonimasu> which is acceptable rapids
[01:32:23] <Jymmm> never! lol
[01:32:28] <anonimasu> never?
[01:32:39] <Jymmm> 500m/min
[01:32:47] <anonimasu> what?
[01:33:00] <anonimasu> 5m/min :D
[01:33:05] <anonimasu> I'd want to do 500
[01:33:11] <anonimasu> but it'd throw my table into the wall
[01:33:19] <Jymmm> and your point is?
[01:33:21] <robin_sz> trouble is ...
[01:33:27] <anonimasu> Jymmm: what?
[01:33:31] <anonimasu> *confused*
[01:33:39] <robin_sz> emc you need to set period MUCH faster
[01:34:12] <robin_sz> because the pulses become rough as you approache the maximum freq
[01:34:22] <anonimasu> robin_sz: yep, hence why I want/ordered a usc
[01:34:28] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:34:35] <anonimasu> it'll be way smoother..
[01:34:38] <robin_sz> it will give you more torque
[01:34:41] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[01:34:43] <anonimasu> servos..
[01:34:44] <anonimasu> :D
[01:34:54] <anonimasu> g340's..
[01:34:57] <robin_sz> steppers are fine if you elt them spin
[01:35:15] <anonimasu> well, it'll probably be smoother anyway..
[01:35:20] <robin_sz> get them over the corner freq and they are stunning
[01:35:32] <anonimasu> the software generated pulsetrains is nothing to admire
[01:35:44] <robin_sz> nope
[01:35:44] <anonimasu> being able to use the UI is fun too
[01:35:48] <robin_sz> 'orrible
[01:36:05] <robin_sz> yeah, using the same UI is neat
[01:36:05] <anonimasu> I hate it when I get delays in the UI
[01:36:14] <anonimasu> it scares me every time
[01:37:30] <robin_sz> it looks like I might have a customer for the EMC interp :)
[01:39:06] <robin_sz> someone contacted me last week because they needed a Gcode interp .. why me I don;t know
[01:39:19] <anonimasu> hm ok
[01:39:20] <robin_sz> did I have a clue how to write one ...
[01:39:25] <robin_sz> hehe :)
[01:40:03] <robin_sz> take the PD one, scrub it up a bit ...
[01:40:08] <anonimasu> yep
[01:40:32] <robin_sz> they just paid a guy to write one ...
[01:40:41] <robin_sz> *lots*
[01:40:54] <robin_sz> it does G0,1,2,3 ... errm thats about it
[01:41:21] <robin_sz> and it keeps forgetting its current Z position
[01:41:33] <robin_sz> and cant do full circles
[01:41:37] <robin_sz> has to do two arcs
[01:41:51] <anonimasu> hwh
[01:42:01] <robin_sz> no workspaces
[01:42:09] <robin_sz> no G4 ...
[01:42:16] <robin_sz> infact not much really
[01:42:40] <anonimasu> I wish you could offset x,y in polar..
[01:43:15] <robin_sz> interesting idea
[01:43:36] <robin_sz> for g2 centres poitns you mean?
[01:43:47] <anonimasu> hm to mill \ and stuff,
[01:44:08] <robin_sz> hmm
[01:44:12] <robin_sz> ach bedtrime
[01:44:15] <robin_sz> must go
[01:44:16] <anonimasu> you can do it with a g1 x1 y2
[01:44:20] <robin_sz> late
[01:44:26] <robin_sz> are
[01:44:31] <anonimasu> but still, offsetting everything around a point would be much better :)
[01:52:38] <fenn> wtf all these quadrature decoder chips only go up to 20khz
[01:52:49] <fenn> and they're $10 each to boot!
[01:54:53] <fenn> * fenn needs 100khz
[01:59:35] <Jymmm> * Jymmm lol @ fenn
[02:00:22] <Jymmm> 10MHz $9.38 for < 10 pcs
[02:01:46] <Jymmm> 1k pcs $6.02/ea
[02:02:46] <fenn> all i want is something that counts pulses @100khz and gives me 4 bits out
[02:03:42] <fenn> and the computer can take care of the rest
[02:03:44] <Jymmm> for DRO ?
[02:03:50] <fenn> to keep track of servos
[02:04:10] <Jymmm> ah, well these are 22bit
[02:04:15] <Jymmm> with serial interface
[02:04:16] <fenn> hey even better
[02:04:19] <fenn> oh damn
[02:04:27] <fenn> how do you get it out of serial and into parallel?
[02:04:42] <Jymmm> why would you need paralllel?
[02:04:48] <fenn> so i can bit-bang the parallel port
[02:05:12] <Jymmm> no no no you silly bitch... not parallel port, parelel I/O
[02:05:22] <fenn> er, both
[02:05:39] <Jymmm> to got from serial ---> to pin on parallel port I think you can use a MAX222
[02:06:16] <Jymmm> or it's equiv (which are cheaper)
[02:06:39] <fenn> so when a chip says it talks serial, it's using rs232?
[02:06:47] <Jymmm> usually SIP
[02:07:00] <fenn> * fenn googles
[02:07:29] <Jymmm> it's a single output on one pin, instead of 4 pins (as an example)
[02:07:40] <Jymmm> only two wires are needed.... GND and DATA
[02:07:46] <Jymmm> so technically one
[02:08:06] <fenn> ok, what does the protocol look like?
[02:08:43] <fenn> or, more importantly, can I multiplex 6 of these babies while still in serial
[02:09:34] <Jymmm> to connect to six input lines of a parallel port you mean?
[02:09:53] <fenn> well, if i use your chip, then I've got six serial data lines.. how do i get that into the computer?
[02:10:16] <fenn> i've got an idea for how to multiplex stuff on the parallel port using an addressing scheme
[02:11:11] <fenn> but i dont know much about interfacing multiple serial lines to a serial port
[02:11:31] <fenn> sounds complicated
[02:11:48] <Jymmm> I guess you could use some I/O board.
[02:12:57] <Jymmm> wait... MAX222 is a line level converter, nm.
[02:13:20] <Jymmm> CMOS <-> TTL
[02:13:36] <fenn> ah
[02:13:41] <Jymmm> http://www.genapta.com/quadrature%20decoder.html
[02:14:45] <fenn> i wonder if it might be easier to just use a microcontroller and have it talk to the quadrature signals
[02:14:57] <fenn> i mean, no decoder chips
[02:15:09] <anonimasu> fenn: I am afraid that'll be too slow
[02:15:14] <Jymmm> Basic Stmap has 16 I/O pins.
[02:15:17] <fenn> i was hoping to get by without having to use a micro so i wouldnt have to learn how to program the buggers
[02:15:28] <Jymmm> BASIC
[02:15:39] <fenn> why too slow? dont they go up to like hundreds of MHz?
[02:16:27] <Jymmm> huh?
[02:16:38] <Jymmm> 20MHz
[02:16:51] <fenn> well, still a lot more than 100khz, which is my target rate
[02:17:01] <Jymmm> here's one at 50MHz
[02:17:39] <fenn> if each micro cycle can read all the pins, figure out which way it's going, and increment/decrement the position variable, and tell the pc what happened, then i'm fine
[02:18:25] <fenn> unless it has to read 22 bits of serial data on each pin
[02:18:27] <fenn> each cycle
[02:18:59] <fenn> blarg
[02:20:08] <fenn> damn electronics
[02:20:32] <Jymmm> http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=BS2PX-IC
[02:21:28] <fenn> here's what i was thinking when i originally thought of this: make a small circuit to figure out step and direction based on the quadrature outputs
[02:22:07] <fenn> hook that circuit up to a binary counter, with step on the clock pin, and direction on the increment/dec pin
[02:22:51] <fenn> then choose 4 pins on the counter to determine the final resolution, based on the speed of the computer and desired motor speeds
[02:23:00] <fenn> (since i already have 2000 ppr encoders)
[02:23:10] <fenn> which is way more than enough
[02:24:27] <fenn> the parallel port multiplexes through 6 of these modules by outputting which device number it wants to read
[02:24:32] <fenn> then it reads it on the next cycle
[02:25:21] <Jymmm> fenn gawd you whine too much sometimes ---> http://pegasus.me.jhu.edu/~allisono/courses/530.420/labs/lab5.pdf
[02:25:34] <fenn> it's my job :)
[02:27:30] <Jymmm> fenn :
[02:27:37] <fenn> based on the "19,000 instructions per second" it looks like its way too slow
[02:27:38] <Jymmm> fenn LEARN TO GOOGLE ! =)
[02:28:02] <fenn> hey i didn't want to use a basic stamp in the first place
[02:28:45] <Jymmm> there are other uC's I only own the BasicStamp =)
[02:28:58] <cradek> basic is useless for anything fast
[02:29:13] <Jymmm> BASIC and AVR Mega
[02:32:40] <Jymmm> http://mcglothin.us/RobotScrapbook/CommunityPcbMill2005/BasicStampGCodeInterpreter/
[02:33:39] <fenn> right...
[02:34:34] <Jymmm> I think it's kinda neat for a proof of concept (which he says it is)
[02:34:38] <fenn> heh.. Unfortunately, I ran out of 9-volt batteries while starting the testing, but I can assure you that the program does compile without error.
[02:42:22] <anonimasu> fenn: you will need a counter chip
[02:42:43] <anonimasu> you need some overhead for sending out the data also.. :)
[02:43:43] <anonimasu> but a atmel is like 10$
[02:43:51] <anonimasu> horrid isnt it?! ^_^
[02:46:00] <anonimasu> what time is it in the us?
[02:46:07] <fenn> 9 pm here
[02:46:31] <anonimasu> ok
[02:47:16] <anonimasu> ok, just curious about when I might get a reply from picosystems
[02:48:53] <fenn> anonimasu: why would I need a microcontroller if i have a counter chip?
[02:49:23] <anonimasu> fenn: to pass your data back to your pc..
[02:49:30] <fenn> oh.. dammit
[02:50:02] <fenn> wait a minute.. if i somehow got step/dir out of the encoder and fed that to a counter, I could go straight from the counter chip to the parallel port right?
[02:50:14] <anonimasu> step/dir?
[02:50:24] <fenn> increment/decrement
[02:50:29] <fenn> clock
[02:50:37] <anonimasu> you get 2 pulsetrains from the encoder..
[02:50:47] <fenn> yeah
[02:51:25] <fenn> there will be a (hopefully small) logic circuit to decode the quadrature output
[02:51:31] <anonimasu> you can go straight to it, but that's as easy..
[02:51:40] <anonimasu> that's what a counter chip does..
[02:52:05] <fenn> i mean a binary counter.. you give it a pulse, it adds 1 to the number
[02:52:18] <fenn> i think you are referring to what I call a quadrature decoder
[02:52:22] <anonimasu> hm, how would you determinate which direction it's going..
[02:52:23] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:52:29] <anonimasu> ofcourse..
[02:53:10] <fenn> the problem is the quadrature decoder chips i see are all too slow
[02:53:14] <fenn> maybe i just need to dig more
[02:53:18] <anonimasu> dig more :)
[02:55:02] <fenn> that and they are all serial i/o which makes it impossible to interface to without a micro
[02:55:47] <anonimasu> :(
[02:56:22] <Jymmm> fenn : Seiously... what makes you think that? A parallel port is nothing more than 8 serial pins
[02:56:36] <Jymmm> ^I/O
[02:57:13] <Jymmm> would USB be easier for you to interface to than parallel port?
[02:57:26] <fenn> no, there's no USB stuff in HAL yet
[02:57:36] <fenn> besides how would i multiplex serial signals?
[02:58:26] <fenn> anyway, about using serial i/o through the parallel port... i'd have to write a driver to talk to the decoder chips, which is doable
[02:58:58] <fenn> i think that's a good solution
[03:01:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[03:02:54] <fenn> * fenn grumbles
[03:03:42] <anonimasu> well cheap one..
[03:03:45] <anonimasu> :D
[03:04:00] <fenn> still gotta get data out of the computer
[03:04:17] <fenn> six serial lines eats up 12 pins
[03:04:21] <Jymmm> http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm
[03:04:35] <Jymmm> no six serial lines eat 7 pins
[03:04:44] <Jymmm> the 7th being GND
[03:04:47] <anonimasu> yep
[03:04:56] <anonimasu> well 6 data linese
[03:04:57] <anonimasu> lines
[03:05:00] <Jymmm> fenn read the url I just posted entirely
[03:05:04] <fenn> hmm i guess i dont have to transmit any data to the counter chip
[03:05:09] <fenn> entirely huh
[03:06:19] <fenn> 90% of this is already taken care of in HAL
[03:06:32] <Jymmm> but 100% is things you aren't aware of
[03:07:17] <anonimasu> well, if you have lines to waste that's not a big deal
[03:07:39] <Jymmm> anonimasu thats what SPI is for =)
[03:07:52] <Jymmm> or I2C =)
[03:08:05] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yeah but how do you do i2c with thoose counter chips..
[03:08:14] <anonimasu> ;)
[03:08:21] <Jymmm> anonimasu no clue, fenn said they were too slow
[03:08:43] <anonimasu> yeah thoose but there are fast enough counter chips
[03:09:02] <Jymmm> I gave him a url for 10MHz ones =)
[03:09:11] <Jymmm> 20 to 32bit too =)
[03:09:11] <anonimasu> too expensive?
[03:09:21] <Jymmm> $9.25USD/ea
[03:09:25] <anonimasu> heh
[03:09:30] <anonimasu> free..
[03:09:30] <anonimasu> :D
[03:09:38] <Jymmm> sampels are always free =)
[03:10:02] <Jymmm> fenn : http://www.beyondlogic.org/spp/parallel.htm#7
[03:10:39] <fenn> ok
[03:12:50] <fenn> the parallel port is really not a very good I/O system huh? :)
[03:13:24] <anonimasu> it's good :)
[03:13:35] <anonimasu> just depends on what you are going to do with it
[03:14:46] <fenn> not the best thing for intensive realtime simultaneous input and output
[03:15:19] <anonimasu> are there any good way to do thoose on a pc?
[03:16:20] <fenn> what bout those boards like vital systems and such
[03:16:51] <fenn> blah
[03:17:27] <fenn> there's just weird stuff about parallel ports that doesn't need to be there
[03:17:39] <Jymmm> lol
[03:17:43] <anonimasu> heh
[03:17:57] <Jymmm> * Jymmm smacks fenn with a branding iron!
[03:18:01] <anonimasu> there's plenty of stuff you should read
[03:18:18] <Jymmm> whats the rul to the datasheet for the chips you have fenn ?
[03:18:23] <Jymmm> url
[03:18:34] <fenn> i dont have any chips
[03:18:57] <fenn> i'm trying to get a datasheet for a binary counter right now
[03:19:14] <fenn> then i'm going to try to figure out how to make a circuit to decode quadrature and feed it to the counter
[03:20:46] <fenn> * fenn wonders if he's getting in over his head
[03:21:34] <anonimasu> well, if you feel like it's hopeless dig for counter chips :)
[03:21:42] <anonimasu> that's how the servocards stg/vital/stuff does it
[03:22:12] <fenn> do they have a micro on the board? how do they store 32-odd bits of position data
[03:22:31] <fenn> maybe thats a dumb question
[03:22:42] <anonimasu> you might read them directly..
[03:22:52] <fenn> how's the pc talk to the chips? i dont know anything about isa bus or pci bus
[03:23:09] <Jymmm> fenn dont go there...
[03:23:11] <anonimasu> a micro does not store 32 bit's of position data..
[03:23:22] <anonimasu> but, there are probably counter chips that are less..
[03:23:22] <Jymmm> a uC stores NOTHING
[03:23:29] <Jymmm> fenn http://www.genapta.com/WORD%20DOCS/AN001-Interfacing.pdf
[03:23:31] <anonimasu> you wont need that kind of range
[03:23:39] <anonimasu> since you will be polling the counters frequently
[03:23:42] <fenn> yeah i only want 4 bits
[03:23:45] <anonimasu> 8
[03:24:01] <anonimasu> most likely
[03:24:11] <fenn> well, it doesnt really matter
[03:24:17] <Jymmm> 4bit? that aint shit
[03:24:32] <fenn> it is when you're updating it at 5 khz
[03:25:07] <Jymmm> fenn without soundsing liek a smartass here.... what do YOU think it's "4bit" of?
[03:25:24] <fenn> 4 bits of position data
[03:25:34] <fenn> 4 least significant bits
[03:25:37] <Jymmm> which is what range deimally?
[03:25:41] <Jymmm> decimal
[03:25:47] <fenn> the computer tags it onto the end of the position variable
[03:26:01] <fenn> you mean 16 decimal?
[03:26:09] <Jymmm> correct
[03:26:12] <fenn> right
[03:26:22] <Jymmm> that means there's only 16 possible positions
[03:26:26] <fenn> yeah
[03:26:34] <Jymmm> 360/16
[03:26:41] <fenn> no
[03:26:51] <fenn> 2000 ppr encoders
[03:27:03] <fenn> it only reads the 4 LSB's
[03:27:25] <fenn> it knows which direction it's headed, and the direction won't change between read cycles
[03:28:03] <fenn> basically i have too much resolution and need to trim it down a bit
[03:28:42] <fenn> i can choose which 4 bits to use as my LSB's
[03:28:43] <Jymmm> no such thing as too much resolution
[03:28:47] <fenn> yeah, there is
[03:28:58] <fenn> if you dont have the capability to keep up with that much data
[03:29:21] <fenn> i can't handle 6 axes at 100khz
[03:29:31] <fenn> not through a parallel port at least
[03:29:32] <Jymmm> what is 100KHz?
[03:29:44] <fenn> 2000 ppr * 2700 rpm = about 90khz
[03:29:59] <fenn> 2700 rpm is the max rpm of my motors
[03:30:16] <anonimasu> yeah but you can poll them frequently thus reducing the need to keep that much data in memory
[03:30:46] <fenn> poll what.. the decoder chip?
[03:30:56] <anonimasu> the micro handling the chips..
[03:30:59] <fenn> arg
[03:31:03] <anonimasu> or you could buy a FPGA and do it in hardware..
[03:31:31] <anonimasu> :D
[03:32:22] <fenn> i understand digital circuits, in theory at least.. but micro's and fpga's are another ball game
[03:33:08] <fenn> also, i just dont see how a micro that can do "19000 instructions per second" will help me
[03:33:48] <anonimasu> you can poll the counters 10000 times per sec..
[03:34:01] <anonimasu> and pass the data to the pc every x cycles..
[03:34:08] <anonimasu> or well let the pc poll them
[03:34:44] <fenn> how's that better than letting the pc talk to the decoder chips directly?
[03:35:55] <fenn> EMC can do 50khz i/o
[03:36:26] <fenn> so that's like 25000 times you can request/receive data
[03:37:27] <fenn> or is there some circuit in the micro that automatically gets serial data and stores it in a buffer? like dma
[03:37:40] <anonimasu> depends on what micro you use, and how you do it..
[03:37:53] <anonimasu> you should have a talk with SWP I think he's been doing more work about it
[03:37:58] <fenn> yeah
[03:38:08] <fenn> he'd probably pummel me into the ground with his crushing intellect :)
[03:38:11] <anonimasu> but you wont be doing much more then polling your counters
[03:39:30] <anonimasu> I really dont know how you transfer 32 bit by the paralell port with decent speed
[03:39:31] <anonimasu> :D
[03:39:39] <fenn> yeah
[03:40:04] <fenn> i wonder how fast is good enough
[03:40:08] <fenn> for servo control
[03:40:14] <fenn> i'm used to thinking about steppers
[03:40:29] <anonimasu> well, you would probably need a vital or something
[03:40:30] <fenn> but it seems you dont need to update servo velocity anywhere near as quickly
[03:43:10] <cradek> fenn: a 16MHz AVR can do millions of instructions a second
[03:43:15] <cradek> nearly one per clock cycle
[03:44:15] <fenn> ASM instructions or a line of C?
[03:44:29] <cradek> depends on the line of C
[03:44:32] <anonimasu> one line of c is usually multiple assembler ops..
[03:44:35] <anonimasu> but almost..
[03:44:41] <fenn> if p then q++
[03:44:47] <fenn> is that 2 instrs?
[03:44:50] <cradek> that's 2 or 3
[03:45:34] <Jymmm> fenn : You relaize that a parallel port does 115K BYTES/seconds right?
[03:46:06] <cradek> Jymmm: where do you get that number?
[03:46:18] <Jymmm> cradek (old standard bi-dir)
[03:46:56] <fenn> that's for a stream of data
[03:47:00] <Jymmm> cradek it wasn't the number i was reffering to... it was bits -vs- bytes
[03:47:11] <fenn> you have to know what you want to send before you send it
[03:47:26] <fenn> the CPU can't keep up with that rate, is what i mean
[03:48:16] <fenn> er, i guess it's the motherboard can't get data from the PP to the CPU and back to the PP fast enough
[03:48:45] <Jymmm> huh?!
[03:48:55] <Jymmm> and a 400MB/ firewire can?
[03:48:59] <fenn> SWP was explaining it to me
[03:49:20] <Jymmm> well, the cpu is multitasking
[03:49:35] <fenn> well, even without worrying about multitasking
[03:49:54] <fenn> hmm
[03:50:09] <fenn> wonder if i should butcher it and try to explain it to you or just try to find the log
[03:50:20] <Jymmm> neither =)
[03:50:22] <fenn> ok
[03:50:34] <Jymmm> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/DOC2506.PDF
[03:52:22] <Jymmm> 60KB/s =)
[03:53:05] <fenn> well that doesnt mean you can do 30,000 read/writes a second from the cpu
[03:53:23] <fenn> er, wait n/m
[03:53:26] <fenn> heh :P
[03:55:17] <fenn> what i meant was the PP can read/write 1MB/sec but you can't do 500,000 read-writes a second
[03:55:28] <fenn> which is why it's 60 kb
[03:55:39] <fenn> since you _can_ do that much
[04:02:26] <Jymmm> I wish I found find a small, inexpensive digital/analog scope
[04:02:49] <fenn> what for?
[04:03:52] <Jymmm> for measuring mains 60Hz cycle
[04:05:10] <fenn> heh
[04:05:20] <fenn> can't you use your PC soundcard to do that?
[04:05:42] <fenn> you want to check for RF noise or something?
[04:05:45] <Jymmm> no not a PC based scope, a REAL scope
[04:06:32] <Jymmm> actually, I could use a specturm analyizer far more than a scope.
[04:07:01] <fenn> talk to phydbleep about that.. he built one I think
[04:07:10] <fenn> some kind of PIC
[04:07:41] <fenn> http://www.eio.com/g321skel.htm
[04:10:36] <Jymmm> This one will do (for now).... http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-12093.536881892/pd.html
[04:11:21] <fenn> 50 GHz huh
[04:11:40] <fenn> oh it's only $80k, where's my credit card
[04:13:01] <fenn> you dont know anyone with a scope?
[04:47:28] <anonimasu> night guys
[07:28:16] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. I found $300 bucks in a parking lot. 3x $100 bills. :)
[07:28:36] <fenn_> might want to wash the blood/cocaine off of it
[07:28:45] <Jymmm> with bleach
[07:28:54] <fenn_> yea then burn it :)
[07:29:06] <Jymmm> the bleach will take care of that.
[08:15:56] <A-L-P-H-A> the money's earmarked... $30 to charity. and $25 for that stupid parking ticket I got today.
[08:16:27] <A-L-P-H-A> The rest goes towards my debt
[09:58:31] <Jacky^> morning
[11:09:18] <anonimasu> morning
[11:09:23] <anonimasu> I've got a reply on the USC
[11:09:28] <Yuga> hey there anonimasu
[11:13:12] <anonimasu> how's things goind?
[11:13:14] <anonimasu> going
[11:13:43] <Yuga> sloow
[11:13:55] <Yuga> but that's normal when one's doing research
[11:16:57] <anonimasu> :)
[11:17:15] <Yuga> never seem to find what u want when u are wantinf it
[11:17:39] <Yuga> i just finnished downloading bdi... want to install it on one of my old pc's to c how it work's
[11:18:44] <anonimasu> it works good but it's quite a mess to set up
[11:19:19] <Yuga> that's the part i am scared of... not good with linux
[11:23:52] <anonimasu> paypal is www.paypal.com
[11:23:54] <anonimasu> right?
[11:27:17] <Yuga> think sao
[11:28:33] <anonimasu> ok
[11:28:40] <anonimasu> well, they have my card number so they better be
[11:32:52] <anonimasu> well it's paid now
[11:34:27] <anonimasu> damn
[11:36:30] <anonimasu> paid in eur instead of $
[11:39:01] <anonimasu> :/
[11:58:49] <Yuga> what u buy?
[12:05:43] <anonimasu> www.pico-systems.com
[12:05:49] <anonimasu> a hardware pulsegenerator
[12:08:53] <Yuga> some one recomended that i use rhino 3d to do all my cad work... what a complex program
[12:13:04] <anonimasu> we
[12:13:15] <anonimasu> no idea
[12:13:23] <Yuga> we?
[12:14:32] <Yuga> lol... looking for easy cad program :) is there such a thing?
[12:16:19] <anonimasu> not really :)
[12:18:22] <Yuga> autocad is also one of those impossible program's to figure out
[12:18:40] <anonimasu> heh
[12:26:29] <anonimasu> any cad program will be hard to learn
[12:26:30] <anonimasu> :
[12:26:31] <anonimasu> :)
[13:28:50] <jepler> cradek: axis does an entirely wrong thing for a file like this one (slashes separate lines): G91 / G1X1 / X1 / M2. The preview plot is always shown anchored at (0,0,0) even though the machine will do some motions that are all relative to the current point
[13:29:11] <jepler> I just think nobody should write a program like that
[13:34:00] <anonimasu> hm, jepler do you know if you can do a full circle?
[13:34:06] <anonimasu> g2 x0 y0 r10
[13:34:10] <anonimasu> like that?
[13:34:16] <anonimasu> or do you have to split it in arcs?
[13:38:03] <anonimasu> I dont have the machine fired up so I can test it right now
[13:52:16] <CIA-8> 03yabosukz * 10emc2/src/ (10 files in 7 dirs): fix make
[14:00:16] <jepler> anonimasu: not with the 'r' format, but with the 'i j' format.
[14:00:16] <cradek> anonimasu: you can do a full circle
[14:00:35] <cradek> oh! I only use ij
[14:01:02] <anonimasu> hm ok..
[14:01:04] <cradek> jepler: is G91 relative?
[14:01:32] <jepler> cradek: yes
[14:01:35] <cradek> jepler: I guess I don't care about that then
[14:01:53] <cradek> jepler: I agree that that's a stupid program
[14:02:35] <cradek> jepler: with my latest fixes I should try a program that uses tool offsets
[14:02:57] <cradek> jepler: when you change tools, I think it should display the path correctly
[14:03:42] <jepler> here's a program that draws a full circle with only one g2: g0 x0 y0 / g2 x0 y0 i1 j0 f10 / m2
[14:04:16] <anonimasu> thanks
[14:04:21] <jepler> the similar program with r1 instead of i1 j0 is ambigious, because the center could be *anywhere* that is distance 1 from x0y0
[14:45:49] <Yuga> gosh this # has been so dead the last 2 days
[17:20:48] <anonimasu> hello
[17:49:45] <anonimasu> hm, my USC should be on it's way soon
[17:49:48] <anonimasu> I hope
[21:16:46] <Yuga> wonder if logger_aj think's we care ?
[21:27:25] <fenn_> do androids dream of electric sheep?
[21:27:30] <fenn_> nick fenn
[21:27:36] <fenn_> *bonk*
[21:27:38] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[21:51:15] <Yuga> http://www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/Funny_Owned_Pics/Match-making_gone_wrong_doggystyle/OWNED.html
[22:01:57] <fenn> that is the dumbest website i've ever seen
[22:15:15] <roel01> hi all
[22:15:21] <fenn> hello
[22:18:28] <roel01> who knows bitbake !!
[22:19:00] <anonimasu> bitbake?
[22:19:23] <fenn> is that japanese? :)
[22:20:19] <roel01> hehe nope the specialists with linux knows were i talking about
[22:20:24] <anonimasu> sou desu ka
[22:21:09] <anonimasu> roel01: Will you explain what you mean with bitbaking
[22:21:22] <fenn> anonimasu: it's some kind of auto-compilation scheme like portage
[22:22:05] <anonimasu> fenn: yeah, but I've never ever seen it around
[22:22:14] <roel01> we used bitkeeper until they get hungry $$
[22:22:29] <anonimasu> ah..
[22:22:33] <anonimasu> you mean a RCS tool...
[22:22:40] <roel01> yes
[22:25:10] <fenn> i'm reading the history of bitkeeper.. the drama never seems to end, does it?
[22:25:22] <roel01> http://svn.berlios.de/bitbake/ this is the site we use untill yesterday
[22:26:56] <fenn> 404
[22:27:34] <roel01> svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused
[22:27:35] <fenn> ah.. it's not there because you aren't using it anymore, right?
[22:28:27] <roel01> is there any other site for this
[22:28:51] <fenn> a site that hosts bitbake repositories?
[22:29:13] <fenn> are there multiple software products called bitbake?
[22:29:15] <fenn> o
[22:29:18] <fenn> i'm confused
[22:29:56] <roel01> maybe a miiror site
[22:31:31] <fenn> http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/bitbake/ ?
[22:33:04] <fenn> you should ask the bitbake developers if you really need cvs access to bitbake
[22:33:21] <fenn> they probably know more about it than we do :)
[22:34:57] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is looking forward for the USC to arrive
[22:37:20] <anonimasu> hey robin_sz
[22:37:27] <robin_sz> hola!
[22:37:39] <anonimasu> how's things gound?
[22:37:40] <anonimasu> going?
[22:39:49] <roel01> welcome robin :)
[22:51:08] <Jacky^> hi
[22:51:52] <roel01> hi Jacky^
[22:52:03] <Jacky^> hi roel01
[23:02:17] <robin_sz> oops was afk
[23:02:35] <robin_sz> going OK, another busy day of cutting
[23:02:59] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz
[23:06:23] <anonimasu> nice :)
[23:06:56] <roel01> robin stil playing with lasergun :)
[23:10:17] <Jymmm> robin_sz I wish I was so lucky!
[23:39:45] <robin_sz> yeah#
[23:40:36] <robin_sz> roel01: running the big laser for commercial cutting at the moment, seems to be profitable
[23:43:26] <roel01> nice
[23:47:21] <robin_sz> thinking about getting that Co2 laser running as a second machine
[23:47:29] <robin_sz> and building an auto sheet loader
[23:50:59] <roel01> i work a long wile ago with two punch machines with in the middle a sheet loader
[23:55:11] <robin_sz> noisy
[23:55:17] <robin_sz> we got rid of our punch
[23:55:24] <robin_sz> horrible thing
[23:56:00] <robin_sz> a Rhoades Pearsall 12 station CNC punch ... hateful device
[23:58:07] <roel01> we used salvagnini s4 back in 1990 or so
[23:59:16] <roel01> like windows (error da cap - manny times ) :)