#emc | Logs for 2005-06-27

[00:13:02] <A-L-P-H-A> where the hell did my day go??
[00:14:21] <Jacky^> sunday bloody sunday :)
[00:14:42] <A-L-P-H-A> well... I accomplished a lot today. :D
[00:14:46] <A-L-P-H-A> so I'm happy that I did.
[00:14:59] <Jacky^> ;-) nice job
[00:15:03] <A-L-P-H-A> managed to write a administration section for a client'sproduct entry system in php.
[00:15:20] <Jacky^> cool
[00:15:46] <Jacky^> A-L-P-H-A: so, what you ask ? good work
[00:15:53] <Jacky^> hehe
[00:16:25] <Jacky^> I did nothing instead :\
[00:16:29] <A-L-P-H-A> well... just that I didn't realize I spent a lot of time at the computer writting it.
[00:16:57] <Jacky^> that's okay
[00:20:35] <Jacky^> ^O-O^
[00:21:10] <A-L-P-H-A> is that the emoticon for a bra?
[00:21:24] <Jacky^> what's bra ?
[00:21:30] <Jacky^> glasses
[00:21:47] <Jacky^> *_*
[00:21:50] <Jacky^> haha
[00:21:52] <A-L-P-H-A> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brassiere
[00:22:16] <Jacky^> lool
[00:22:20] <Jacky^> nahh..
[01:02:42] <Jacky^> night
[07:50:48] <anonimasu> hmm
[07:52:27] <Phydbleep> hmmmm
[07:53:06] <anonimasu> what's up?
[07:53:40] <anonimasu> I've started designing input validation stuff for my app :)
[07:53:49] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders which smart-ass remark to reply with..
[07:54:20] <anonimasu> you could just try to be nice
[07:55:31] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has heard that word somewhere before.
[07:56:52] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: But I never promised to be 'nice'.. My trademark is being "A complete and utter bastard" :)
[07:57:41] <anonimasu> lol
[07:57:49] <Phydbleep> I am a sysadnim/netadmin after all. :)
[07:57:51] <anonimasu> I found out my spindle taper is replaceable yesterday
[07:58:12] <Phydbleep> Cool, you can get/make a spare.
[07:58:59] <anonimasu> I am going to ge ta real taper.
[07:59:45] <Phydbleep> I have to get my furnace together where I can cast some AL blanks for some parts...
[07:59:55] <anonimasu> I am a admin also btw ;)
[08:00:42] <Phydbleep> 01:23:21 up 105 days, 4:05, 8 users, load average: 0.04, 0.09, 0.14
[08:01:42] <Phydbleep> Woohoo, I got them to quit monkeying with it ~ 120 days ago and took my time fixing it so they'd appreciate it. :)
[08:03:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep curses the inventor of cheap "peel & stick" floor tiles..
[08:04:23] <anonimasu> 7:18PM up 201 days, 16:01, 6 users, load averages: 0.26, 0.19, 0.14
[08:04:27] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: :)
[08:04:32] <alex_joni> morning guys
[08:04:33] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: :P
[08:04:39] <anonimasu> morning alex
[08:04:47] <anonimasu> low uptime :/
[08:05:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni 10:32AM up 4:34 h, 1 user, load average: 0.30, 0.15, 0.10
[08:05:37] <alex_joni> errr...
[08:05:42] <alex_joni> * alex_joni 10:32AM up 2:34 h, 1 user, load average: 0.30, 0.15, 0.10
[08:05:44] <alex_joni> *g*
[08:06:48] <ValarQ> 09:34:13 up 5 days, 5:20, 2 users, load average: 0.02, 0.05, 0.01
[08:06:49] <ValarQ> :/
[08:07:02] <anonimasu__> I used to have >700 days before
[08:07:07] <anonimasu__> ~_~
[08:07:10] <alex_joni> ValarQ: that was MY uptime ;)
[08:07:28] <anonimasu__> but the power outage took it down
[08:07:45] <ValarQ> alex_joni: ok, i had a power failure
[08:07:54] <alex_joni> main:~ # uptime
[08:07:54] <alex_joni> 10:22am up 115 days, 21:45, 1 user, load average: 0.23, 0.17, 0.11
[08:08:05] <anonimasu__> I hope the customer calls soon
[08:08:22] <alex_joni> finished your second planting thingie?
[08:08:42] <anonimasu__> the parts I were making?
[08:08:46] <anonimasu__> no, need to re-design some
[08:08:47] <anonimasu__> :)
[08:09:06] <anonimasu__> no I am going there to upgrade the software today at the machine it mounts on...
[08:09:18] <anonimasu__> some trouble with backpressure
[08:10:03] <anonimasu__> how's stuff comming along with your toy?
[08:11:11] <anonimasu__> * anonimasu__ is mad atm
[08:11:22] <anonimasu__> somone spilt some cola into a plc module carrier while I was away from work
[08:12:18] <anonimasu__> damn so hillarious
[08:17:09] <alex_joni> lol
[08:19:48] <anonimasu__> !#"��#!�#!"
[08:20:04] <alex_joni> hmmm ;)
[08:26:17] <anonimasu__> electronics + pepsi is bad.
[08:26:24] <anonimasu__> err pepsi max..
[08:26:24] <anonimasu__> that is..
[08:26:27] <anonimasu__> normal sugar is dissolved rather easily
[08:26:34] <alex_joni> roflmao
[08:26:39] <alex_joni> that's why I like coke ;)
[08:27:24] <anonimasu__> yeah
[08:27:24] <anonimasu__> me too
[08:27:28] <anonimasu__> but we just have pepsi at work..
[08:27:59] <Phydbleep> What a horrible workplace.. :)
[08:28:51] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would never work anyplace that evil. <grin>
[08:30:12] <anonimasu__> finally done
[08:30:28] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: ditto
[08:30:42] <alex_joni> it really should be the same shit
[08:30:45] <alex_joni> coke and pepsi
[08:30:53] <alex_joni> but.. there's such a huge difference ;)
[08:31:08] <alex_joni> especially if you (I) drink about 2l / day
[08:35:55] <anonimasu__> hm, I just got a call from the cad dealer
[08:36:53] <anonimasu__> but I didnt bring the right laptop
[08:36:54] <anonimasu__> :D
[08:38:56] <alex_joni> anonimasu__: for a 3k CAD program, they should give you a laptop for free
[08:38:57] <alex_joni> :P
[08:39:12] <anonimasu__> alex_joni: I think you have to double the price..
[08:39:16] <anonimasu__> -the laptop
[08:40:12] <alex_joni> a good laptop is about .7k
[08:40:37] <anonimasu__> I have a good laptop..
[08:40:41] <anonimasu__> :)
[08:40:49] <anonimasu__> although no cad program yet
[08:41:39] <alex_joni> I have synergy
[08:41:45] <alex_joni> although I don't use it :P
[08:41:59] <anonimasu__> well I think this program will be it..
[08:42:10] <anonimasu__> although it's price is almost the same as solidworks..
[08:56:29] <anonimasu__> alex_joni: how does your toy work?
[08:57:03] <alex_joni> heh.. started to work
[08:57:10] <alex_joni> but I didn't have much time for it
[08:57:15] <alex_joni> was in vienna for the weekend
[08:57:24] <anonimasu__> very nice
[08:57:33] <alex_joni> I still need to figure out how to home it properly
[08:57:47] <alex_joni> if it's not homed properly .. then the kins won't work
[08:58:00] <anonimasu__> hm, homing switches?
[08:58:19] <anonimasu__> or encoders ;)
[08:58:21] <alex_joni> well.. first I gotta figure out HOME and HOME_OFFSET in the ini ;)
[08:58:28] <alex_joni> and values I need to use
[08:58:38] <anonimasu__> yeah
[09:00:12] <alex_joni> I freaking ended up using inches :((
[09:00:19] <alex_joni> gotta convert everything to mm :P
[09:00:37] <alex_joni> the problem is that my counts/units is pretty small in mm
[09:00:51] <alex_joni> < 100
[09:03:37] <anonimasu__> * anonimasu__ NODS
[09:03:59] <alex_joni> and I kinda remember paul_c saying that values < 100 make emc unhappy
[09:04:03] <alex_joni> not sure about emc2
[09:04:06] <alex_joni> will check
[09:04:12] <alex_joni> but first I wanted to make it run
[09:04:23] <anonimasu__> yeah
[09:04:32] <anonimasu__> so low count of steps per unit?
[09:12:10] <anonimasu__> oh, the cleaned module carrier works
[09:12:11] <anonimasu__> nice
[09:12:41] <alex_joni> nice
[09:12:53] <alex_joni> seems emc1 was a bit unstable if the count was under 100
[09:13:01] <alex_joni> so the trick was to set it up in inches
[09:13:07] <alex_joni> and multiply the mm value by 25,4
[09:13:19] <alex_joni> or 25.4 depending on your locale
[09:13:20] <alex_joni> ;)
[09:14:00] <anonimasu__> lol
[09:18:46] <anonimasu__> * anonimasu__ yawns
[09:18:59] <alex_joni> ditto
[09:25:25] <anonimasu__> hm my memory object for the plc works :D
[09:32:27] <anonimasu__> BBL
[09:32:28] <anonimasu__> lunch
[09:36:00] <anonimasu__> ^_^
[09:41:21] <alex_joni> kay
[10:10:52] <anonimasu__> iab
[10:23:12] <anonimasu__> bbl..
[10:23:14] <anonimasu__> going out to customer
[10:23:51] <alex_joni> heh
[10:23:55] <alex_joni> stop toggling
[10:23:55] <alex_joni> LOL
[10:24:04] <anonimasu__> toggling?
[10:24:23] <alex_joni> yeah (ON/OFF)
[10:24:31] <alex_joni> :P
[10:24:39] <anonimasu__> oh, I couldnt use the other client for some reason..
[10:24:43] <anonimasu__> I think it's a bad network cable..
[10:24:50] <anonimasu__> I cant stay connected to it without timing out
[10:25:07] <alex_joni> no I meant.. that you are here
[10:25:12] <alex_joni> then you say you'll bbl
[10:25:16] <alex_joni> then you are again here
[10:25:18] <anonimasu__> yeah ;)
[10:25:20] <alex_joni> then you leave .. etc
[10:25:21] <alex_joni> :P
[10:25:25] <alex_joni> that's toggling ;)
[10:25:29] <anonimasu__> heh
[10:34:45] <Jacky^> morning
[10:37:46] <alex_joni> morning
[10:38:11] <Jacky^> hi alex_joni
[10:38:38] <Jacky^> was been out for the weekend ?
[10:39:23] <Jacky^> mountain ?
[10:39:57] <alex_joni> a bit by foot
[10:40:00] <alex_joni> around vienna
[10:40:08] <Jacky^> nice :)
[10:40:09] <alex_joni> some nice hills there
[10:40:12] <alex_joni> in m�dling
[10:40:18] <Jacky^> hehe
[10:45:54] <alex_joni> paul_c: was wondering.. you (iirc) told me a while ago (about a year or more) that emc has some stability issues if the counts/unit is less than 100
[10:46:34] <paul_c> yes. Correct, I did say that.
[10:47:33] <alex_joni> does it still apply on emc2?
[10:47:49] <alex_joni> or no tests yet on that?
[10:48:17] <paul_c> a) emc2 does not work on *this computer...
[10:48:35] <paul_c> b) Most likely, the problem exists (or is worse)
[10:49:36] <alex_joni> right.. I'll test more when I'll have a working machine ;)
[10:49:44] <alex_joni> right now I'm cursing at inch stuff
[10:50:05] <Jacky^> hi paul_c
[10:50:38] <paul_c> I fixed the problem in the bdi-4 branch some time back...
[10:51:17] <alex_joni> too bad I can't run that here
[10:51:32] <alex_joni> uname -a
[10:51:32] <alex_joni> Linux geode 2.4.21-rthal5 #2 Fri Apr 2 15:45:42 PST 2004 i586
[10:54:11] <paul_c> you should consider upgrading to a more current kernel/RTAI
[10:54:20] <alex_joni> :P
[10:54:44] <alex_joni> I can't waste the time to upgrade that kernel...
[10:54:49] <alex_joni> it's a 300 MHz machine
[10:54:54] <alex_joni> will probably take 1-2 days
[10:55:27] <paul_c> compile the kernel on a desktop.
[10:55:50] <alex_joni> right.. but I still would have to compile RTAI
[10:55:55] <alex_joni> and upgrade modutils
[10:56:09] <alex_joni> last time I did that.. I kinda broke my install
[10:56:25] <alex_joni> I ended up having some wierd mix of 2.4 and 2.6 with neither working properly ;)
[10:57:40] <alex_joni> eventually I installed BDI-4.20 and got rid of the lunacy..
[10:57:48] <alex_joni> but I don't really want to do that here
[11:24:06] <paul_c> seem to be getting a few Italians joining in of late.
[11:24:19] <alex_joni> heh
[11:24:29] <alex_joni> maybe we should set up some pizza fees
[11:24:53] <paul_c> they eat more than just pizza over there.
[11:25:09] <alex_joni> well.. I'd eat some pizza
[11:25:19] <alex_joni> the ones in Napels were absolutely great
[11:25:35] <alex_joni> local "italian" pizza is acceptable here
[11:28:10] <Zivo> hi all, can anyone help me for axis calibration with emc?
[11:28:45] <paul_c> EMC, emc2, or emc3 ?
[11:29:00] <alex_joni> emcNG
[11:29:16] <Zivo> i'm using BDI live - emc
[11:29:29] <paul_c> Old EMC[1]
[11:29:51] <Zivo> better to use emc2 or 3 ?
[11:31:45] <paul_c> emc2 has a different set of "issues".
[11:32:15] <paul_c> So... You using steppers or servos ?
[11:32:24] <Zivo> steppers
[11:33:02] <paul_c> which part of the set up is causing probs ?
[11:34:54] <Zivo> i set up input_scale and output_scale to have 1mm for the axis but it doesn't work,
[11:36:55] <Zivo> so the problem is: in the software i put 1 mm and i need 1 mm in the axis, hot to set up this?
[11:37:24] <alex_joni> explain a bit more
[11:37:35] <alex_joni> how do your steppers drive the machine?
[11:37:45] <paul_c> one sec Alex...
[11:38:14] <paul_c> Zivo: Do you have a copy of the ini file in front of you ?
[11:38:33] <Zivo> yes
[11:39:03] <paul_c> We will look at the [AXIS_0] section - all the others will be the same..
[11:39:09] <Zivo> ok
[11:39:17] <paul_c> Wgat is the UNITS = ?
[11:39:24] <Zivo> 1
[11:39:35] <paul_c> INPUT_SCALE = ?
[11:39:43] <Zivo> 1000 0
[11:39:51] <paul_c> OUTPU_SCALE =
[11:39:56] <Zivo> 1000 0
[11:40:15] <paul_c> 'k... That should be fine to start with....
[11:40:42] <Jacky^> paul_c:i he seem are not using screw..
[11:40:43] <paul_c> Now... what is the pitch of the feed screw ?
[11:41:21] <Jacky^> that the issue
[11:42:05] <Zivo> i don't know what is it
[11:42:06] <paul_c> yes - We need to calculate the number of steps per mm
[11:43:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home..
[11:43:18] <alex_joni> back later
[11:43:22] <alex_joni> will commit then comments
[11:43:22] <Jacky^> Zivo: are you shure you're driving steppers in full step mode ?
[11:43:26] <paul_c> alex_joni: wimp.
[11:43:38] <Zivo> no half step mode
[11:44:00] <Jacky^> paul_c: should be better full instead ?
[11:44:23] <paul_c> at this stage, doesn't make any difference...
[11:44:30] <Jacky^> ok..
[11:44:56] <paul_c> Zivo: Can you measure the pitch of the feed screw ?
[11:47:06] <Zivo> i am driving the stepper motor of a printer, so i don't have a feed screw but a gearing on a belt
[11:47:54] <Zivo> 1 motor revolution = 42 mm
[11:48:40] <Zivo> of linear shift
[11:49:58] <paul_c> one sec... trying to work it out...
[11:50:16] <Zivo> ok thanks a lot
[11:52:00] <paul_c> OK... Assuming 7.5 degree stepper...
[11:52:21] <paul_c> One turn is 48 steps
[11:53:00] <paul_c> 42mm/48steps = 0.875
[11:53:32] <Zivo> ok
[11:54:05] <paul_c> Is the stepper a 1.8 degree or 7.5 degree motor ?
[11:54:41] <Zivo> where can i find it? i don't know
[11:55:00] <paul_c> it might say on the motor.
[11:55:48] <Zivo> i counted 48 steps for one revolution; the motor is the one of the printer and i don't have any information about it
[11:56:39] <paul_c> 48 steps/rev - A 7.5 degree motor.
[11:57:04] <paul_c> and you are using a half step drive ?
[11:57:26] <Zivo> yes half step.
[11:57:47] <paul_c> Can you do microstepping with it ?
[11:59:02] <Zivo> yes
[11:59:35] <paul_c> 8, 10, or more ?
[12:01:23] <Zivo> i didn't tried so far, now i can drive the motor with half step and it works, i'm using the stepper driver found on penguinCNC web site
[12:01:37] <Zivo> to try the value you said (0.875), where to put it?
[12:02:01] <paul_c> OK... We will work with 1/2 stepping, 48 steps/rev
[12:02:21] <paul_c> and one rev = 42mm of movement
[12:02:34] <Zivo> yes
[12:02:47] <paul_c> _SCALE = (2 48) / 42
[12:03:21] <paul_c> or 2.285714286
[12:04:02] <Zivo> INPUT_SCALE and OTPUT_SCALE?
[12:04:10] <paul_c> yes
[12:04:23] <Zivo> ok i try it
[12:04:24] <paul_c> But... this is going to give you serious problems...
[12:04:45] <paul_c> one step = 0.4375mm of travel
[12:07:51] <Zivo> i put these values, but it moves "kilometers" when i tell 1mm movement...
[12:09:22] <paul_c> not sure I understand...
[12:11:04] <Zivo> i put 2.28...... in INPUT_SCALE and OTPUT_SCALE, i gave a manual jog+ at the axis (1mm), but it moves out of range
[12:12:13] <paul_c> 'k... We move on to a few of the other parameters..
[12:12:32] <paul_c> MIN_LIMT & MAX_LIMIT = ?
[12:12:44] <Zivo> -10 / +10
[12:13:16] <paul_c> OK.. This is the MIN & MAX travel of the axis...
[12:13:33] <paul_c> so if you had 500mm of travel
[12:13:45] <paul_c> it would be +/- 250
[12:14:09] <Zivo> i have 340mm so i put now +/- 170
[12:15:10] <paul_c> now... MIN_OUTPUT & MAX_OUTPUT - leave at +/- 10
[12:15:31] <Zivo> ok
[12:15:42] <paul_c> FERROR = ?
[12:15:56] <Zivo> 1
[12:16:07] <paul_c> change it to 5
[12:16:20] <Zivo> ok
[12:16:32] <paul_c> MIN_FERROR =
[12:16:41] <Zivo> 0.01
[12:17:13] <paul_c> remember how far one step is ?
[12:17:40] <paul_c> 0.4375mm
[12:17:43] <Zivo> 0.4375?
[12:17:46] <Zivo> ok
[12:18:00] <paul_c> MIN_FERROR needs to be twice that.
[12:18:10] <paul_c> or 0.875
[12:18:17] <Zivo> ok done
[12:18:52] <paul_c> I guess the P, I, and D values are 1000, 0, & 0 ?
[12:19:08] <Zivo> yes
[12:19:25] <paul_c> set P to... um... 10
[12:19:42] <Zivo> ok
[12:19:59] <paul_c> now try running EMC...
[12:20:34] <Zivo> ok
[12:20:42] <paul_c> but... EMC really does not like less than 100 steps per unit, so 2 or 3 is going to be... trouble.
[12:22:51] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, suggestion, perhaps that should be noted in the pdf, or faq...
[12:23:00] <A-L-P-H-A> that feffor statements.
[12:23:55] <Zivo> in fact... do you think the only solution is to reduce mechanically the transmission to have more than 100 steps per unit?\
[12:24:35] <paul_c> yes.
[12:27:33] <Zivo> ok, thank you very much for your time, very kind
[12:31:06] <Zivo> may be i'll be back in the afternoon, see you later
[12:31:18] <paul_c> n.p.
[12:31:44] <Zivo> bye all
[12:46:11] <anonimasu> hm, less packetloss with this tp
[12:47:37] <anonimasu> ValarQ: : there's pyQT for python..
[12:49:21] <ValarQ> anonimasu: yes?
[12:49:44] <anonimasu> you said somthing about too bad it only suported c++ a couple of days back..
[12:49:57] <anonimasu> or was that somone else
[12:49:57] <anonimasu> :D
[12:50:09] <anonimasu> the customer didnt want me to stay with them ~_~
[12:50:11] <ValarQ> that was libnml iirc
[12:50:17] <anonimasu> ah..
[12:50:18] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:50:25] <ValarQ> but libnml supported java and ada as well
[12:50:32] <anonimasu> but there's python stuff too..
[12:50:33] <ValarQ> none of my favourites...
[12:50:35] <anonimasu> axis is python
[12:50:41] <ValarQ> yeah
[12:51:01] <ValarQ> but i found it odd that there are no C bindings
[12:51:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[12:51:43] <anonimasu> I just installed the new software in their machine set it up and they are producing :)
[12:51:51] <anonimasu> I love it when that happens
[12:51:55] <ValarQ> :)
[12:55:12] <anonimasu> I was just going to say I was waiting for the solidedge rep to call.
[12:55:14] <anonimasu> argh..
[12:55:20] <anonimasu> 55-60 000sek
[12:55:55] <anonimasu> *gets sudden headache*
[12:56:24] <anonimasu> so very horrid
[13:00:23] <Jacky^> hi anonimasu
[13:00:39] <Jacky^> launch pause ?
[13:00:45] <Jacky^> :-)
[13:01:24] <anonimasu> lunch?
[13:01:32] <anonimasu> I am sitting and breathing slowly
[13:01:34] <Jacky^> ops
[13:01:38] <Jacky^> launch
[13:01:47] <Jacky^> pranzo :-)
[13:02:02] <Jacky^> i mean gnam pause ..
[13:02:11] <anonimasu> I got the call from the solidedge rep... my heart is still trying to get into a stable rythm after I heard the price
[13:02:24] <Jacky^> uh ?
[13:02:29] <Jacky^> too high ?
[13:02:31] <anonimasu> 6250$
[13:02:40] <Jacky^> :\
[13:02:46] <anonimasu> way too high
[13:03:05] <Jacky^> equivalent of 1 year of work, for me :(
[13:03:15] <anonimasu> :/
[13:03:16] <Jacky^> :)
[13:03:40] <anonimasu> horrid :)
[13:04:12] <Jacky^> alien price
[13:04:27] <anonimasu> high end programs have high end prices..
[13:04:58] <Jacky^> bah.. i never buuy software in my life
[13:05:29] <Jacky^> software should be free for all
[13:05:57] <Jacky^> i like ray philosophy :P
[13:06:23] <anonimasu> lol, if there was no profit in making software no one would make it
[13:06:32] <Jacky^> nah..
[13:06:37] <anonimasu> seriously
[13:06:42] <Jacky^> software is abstract
[13:06:43] <anonimasu> do you see any good free cad programs?
[13:06:52] <Jacky^> not a material thing
[13:06:54] <anonimasu> why isnt there a free alternative to solidworks?
[13:07:06] <Jacky^> you can't buy an idea
[13:07:11] <anonimasu> ask youself why and you see why software cant be free
[13:07:25] <anonimasu> it's not the idea that they sell it's the implementation
[13:07:35] <Jacky^> bah..
[13:07:47] <Jacky^> il sapere umano appartiene al mondo
[13:07:55] <Jacky^> translate this phrase
[13:08:00] <anonimasu> I cant..
[13:08:16] <Jacky^> :P
[13:08:29] <anonimasu> I woudlnt write a line of code at work if it didnt bring the company I work for profit
[13:08:57] <Jacky^> well, if you like so..
[13:09:23] <anonimasu> Jacky^: you obviously have no idea how much work it is to write a large program
[13:09:31] <Jacky^> i appreciated the work that Linux community every day do..
[13:10:22] <Jacky^> and, I also will hope to give my contribute for it, one day..
[13:10:32] <anonimasu> I do too, but there is no free alternative that compares with high end cad programs.
[13:10:55] <anonimasu> there are 3d programs but a 3d program is far from a cad program
[13:11:08] <Jacky^> well, i was thinking this yesterday..
[13:11:23] <Jacky^> we need a good open source Cad
[13:11:56] <Jacky^> many peoples are working on GUI for Emc, when,
[13:11:59] <ValarQ> i have to make a crapcad someday...
[13:12:04] <Jacky^> we already have this..
[13:12:29] <Jacky^> we need to join togheter in a seriously Cad project
[13:12:58] <Jacky^> Open Source, free for us
[13:13:24] <Jacky^> after this we no need nothing
[13:13:30] <Jacky^> :)
[13:13:34] <anonimasu> Jacky^: if I remember it right emc has been in dev for 10 years.
[13:13:44] <Jacky^> i think 5-6
[13:13:49] <Jacky^> right ?
[13:13:52] <anonimasu> somone said somthing about it..
[13:14:05] <anonimasu> how much do you think the developer time invested would cost?
[13:14:09] <anonimasu> for a company as a example..
[13:14:22] <Jacky^> i'm talking since paul and others are working on it
[13:14:30] <Jacky^> not in the Nist time..
[13:15:01] <Jacky^> we need a free cad
[13:15:05] <Jacky^> imperativ
[13:15:28] <Jacky^> i think it's very hard to do
[13:15:41] <Jacky^> but it's the right way
[13:16:00] <ValarQ> "imperativ"?
[13:16:08] <Jacky^> absolute..
[13:16:16] <ValarQ> ok
[13:16:18] <Jacky^> i say imperativo (in italian)
[13:16:38] <anonimasu> Jacky^: that's why all software cant be free..
[13:16:39] <anonimasu> :)
[13:16:39] <Jacky^> high priority
[13:16:55] <Jacky^> anonimasu: nah...
[13:17:05] <ValarQ> anonimasu: have you read catb?
[13:17:07] <Jacky^> open your mind :)
[13:17:16] <anonimasu> ValarQ: catb?
[13:17:40] <anonimasu> Jacky^: so you think all developers would develop if it brought them no profit at all?
[13:17:56] <ValarQ> anonimasu: "The Cathedral and the Bazaar"
[13:18:03] <Jacky^> anonimasu: not at all
[13:18:08] <Jacky^> it depend
[13:18:32] <Jacky^> some mounth ago
[13:18:44] <Jacky^> i donate 100 euro to Debian community
[13:19:00] <Jacky^> because i'm using Debian since 2004
[13:19:23] <Jacky^> i know.. it's not simple to develop an apps
[13:19:48] <Jacky^> at the samte time
[13:19:51] <Jacky^> same*
[13:20:05] <Jacky^> if i can help emc developers, then i will do it
[13:20:27] <Jacky^> this is what i think
[13:20:38] <Jacky^> but the software should be free for all
[13:20:41] <anonimasu> if you were paying a corporate developer that's less then a hour's worth of work
[13:20:50] <Jacky^> also for people that can't buy it
[13:20:54] <ValarQ> Jacky^: what about qcad?
[13:21:11] <Jacky^> ValarQ: seem to me a nice project
[13:21:26] <Jacky^> but not too advanced how we need
[13:21:32] <Jacky^> :\
[13:22:02] <ValarQ> ok
[13:22:07] <Jacky^> if Linux can be better than M$ xp
[13:22:28] <Jacky^> then qcad can be better than Artcam
[13:22:44] <Jacky^> wee need more developers work on it
[13:23:07] <Jacky^> excatly like the Linux Kernel development
[13:23:11] <ValarQ> an opensourced version of proe would be quite heavy...
[13:23:28] <Jacky^> i image..
[13:24:33] <ValarQ> would be interesting thought
[13:24:38] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:27:27] <Jacky^> anonimasu: would you like correct a translate document i made ?
[13:27:39] <Jacky^> it's open source :)
[13:28:57] <anonimasu> Jacky^: sorry I am working
[13:29:10] <Jacky^> :) ok..
[13:30:54] <Jacky^> anyway it is here : http://rafb.net/paste/results/ehySol48.html
[13:31:03] <Jacky^> if someone want to take a look
[13:31:12] <Jacky^> 60 % completed..
[13:31:25] <Jacky^> must add other days
[13:32:41] <Jacky^> it need to be correct for english
[13:32:52] <Jacky^> :D
[13:46:17] <Jacky^> i know a guy that made a cad in ruby some year ago..
[13:46:26] <Jacky^> i will contact
[13:46:43] <Jacky^> massimilano mirra
[14:07:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[14:09:09] <A-L-P-H-A> A-L-P-H-A is now known as Devils_Delusion
[14:37:59] <alex_joni> greetings
[14:38:01] <alex_joni> anyone around?
[14:40:57] <Jacky^> hi alex_joni
[14:41:03] <joe2000chevy> hello
[14:41:12] <alex_joni> hey Jacky^ & joe2000chevy
[14:41:28] <joe2000chevy> how is it going?
[14:41:34] <alex_joni> pretty hot
[14:41:36] <alex_joni> too hot
[14:41:37] <alex_joni> :(
[14:41:39] <Jacky^> too hot :\
[14:41:41] <joe2000chevy> where?
[14:41:43] <Jacky^> haha
[14:41:47] <Jacky^> 37 �
[14:41:49] <alex_joni> joe2000chevy: .ro
[14:41:56] <joe2000chevy> I'm in Texas so it get hot here :D
[14:42:43] <joe2000chevy> along with the rattle snakes, and scorpions.. lol
[14:42:57] <Jacky^> :(��
[14:43:10] <alex_joni> nice
[14:43:48] <Jacky^> nice :\
[14:44:02] <Jacky^> let me heard some good song :P
[14:44:28] <Jacky^> KC and sunshine band :P
[14:45:49] <Devils_Delusion> and
[14:45:51] <Devils_Delusion> the
[14:46:08] <Jacky^> seem a little cold with the good sound :P
[14:47:18] <Jacky^> alex_joni: ther's no hope
[14:47:27] <Jacky^> we need to go in mountanin
[14:47:31] <Jacky^> :\
[14:47:57] <alex_joni> :P
[14:48:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is tired
[14:48:08] <alex_joni> but I'll go play some tennis later..
[14:48:25] <Jacky^> single or couple ? :P
[14:48:49] <alex_joni> double
[14:48:52] <Jacky^> nice
[14:48:59] <alex_joni> yeah..
[14:49:02] <Jacky^> some nice girls ? :P
[14:49:05] <alex_joni> single is too heavy :P
[14:49:09] <alex_joni> Jacky^: not this time ;)
[14:49:09] <Jacky^> hehe
[14:49:16] <Jacky^> agh !
[14:49:48] <Jacky^> those is he hot that i like :)
[14:49:52] <Jacky^> the*
[14:51:50] <Jacky^> yeahh.. babyyy i love you sooooo
[14:51:59] <Jacky^> i want to know :P
[14:52:14] <Jacky^> please don't goooo
[14:52:33] <Jacky^> (o_o) )))))))
[14:53:12] <Jacky^> that monster
[14:53:16] <Jacky^> KC
[14:56:18] <Jacky^> joe2000chevy: what's up in texas ??
[14:56:28] <Jacky^> how is president bush ? :P
[15:02:18] <Jacky^> alex_joni: have U read my last job ?
[15:02:57] <Jacky^> need some help to correct translate..
[15:03:13] <Jacky^> http://rafb.net/paste/results/ehySol48.html
[15:03:53] <Jacky^> not finish yet..
[15:04:11] <Jacky^> :P
[15:07:07] <joe2000chevy> Bush is to busy to talk to us meer texans.. lol
[15:07:37] <Jacky^> :-)
[15:08:04] <Jacky^> nice president
[15:08:13] <Jacky^> would you like to change it ?
[15:08:23] <Jacky^> we can offer the pope :D
[15:08:45] <Jacky^> we take Bush, you take the Pope
[15:08:56] <Jacky^> seem to me a good offer :P
[15:09:40] <Jacky^> we can also offer you 1 minister berlusconi, but mmmmhhh
[15:09:45] <Jacky^> not so good :P
[15:10:28] <Jacky^> you agree ?
[15:10:51] <joe2000chevy> nah keep bush
[15:10:59] <Jacky^> :\
[15:11:07] <Jacky^> ghghghg..
[15:11:09] <Jacky^> well
[15:11:24] <joe2000chevy> we are in the middle of war somewhat so we better not change.. lol
[15:11:34] <Jacky^> mmhhh
[15:11:46] <Jacky^> bad war
[15:12:07] <Jacky^> we lost many peoples there..
[15:13:15] <joe2000chevy> yea, a few a week
[15:13:42] <Jacky^> i hope some day.. 1 minister Berluscone will send there its mens
[15:13:53] <Jacky^> better it's son..
[15:14:01] <Jacky^> would be better :-)))
[15:14:29] <joe2000chevy> so should i switch back to EMC?
[15:14:47] <Jacky^> O_O
[15:14:48] <joe2000chevy> I'm using Mach2 right now.
[15:14:58] <Jacky^> yeah
[15:15:01] <joe2000chevy> EMC i was loosing steps
[15:15:15] <joe2000chevy> I guess i just did not have it setup right.
[15:15:17] <Jacky^> np
[15:15:32] <Jacky^> here we have hard guru
[15:15:43] <Jacky^> waht's the problem ?
[15:15:49] <joe2000chevy> is there a guide to what need to be set for motors timmings?
[15:16:04] <Jacky^> handbook i think..
[15:16:07] <alex_joni> joe2000chevy: you need to set max vel and max accel
[15:16:13] <alex_joni> in order to not loose steps
[15:16:17] <alex_joni> lose even
[15:16:22] <joe2000chevy> whats the rule of thumb?
[15:16:47] <joe2000chevy> or a formula?
[15:17:09] <alex_joni> no rule of thumb
[15:17:12] <alex_joni> trial and error
[15:17:17] <alex_joni> best rule
[15:17:18] <joe2000chevy> damn :(
[15:17:19] <alex_joni> try it ;)
[15:17:28] <Jacky^> joe2000chevy: why not use servo ? i U have doubt to lose step
[15:17:40] <Jacky^> encoder !
[15:17:46] <joe2000chevy> Its DIY Steppers are cheaper.
[15:18:10] <Jacky^> i think you cann add auxilias encoder..
[15:18:30] <Jacky^> auxiliar :P
[15:19:04] <Jacky^> than use aseconday parport to check the steps
[15:19:29] <Jacky^> what's the problem ?
[15:23:04] <joe2000chevy> raises cost of machine.
[15:23:21] <Jacky^> how much ?
[15:23:34] <alex_joni> an encoder is about 200$
[15:23:37] <alex_joni> a decent one
[15:23:39] <Jacky^> nahhhh
[15:23:50] <Jacky^> you can use a mouse
[15:24:00] <Jacky^> wait..
[15:24:13] <alex_joni> I said a decent one
[15:24:23] <alex_joni> 2500-10000 counts / rev
[15:27:19] <Jacky^> http://www.amsky.com/atm/accessories/mouse/mouse.html
[15:27:28] <Jacky^> can't find the right url :\
[15:27:53] <Jacky^> if you google around you find a schematich of encoder using a simple chip
[15:28:15] <Jacky^> it should be sufficient for what you need
[15:28:21] <Jacky^> 10 $
[15:36:05] <joe2000che> got d/c
[15:38:26] <Jacky^> good choice
[15:43:41] <anonimasu> wb alex
[15:43:47] <alex_joni> hey anders
[15:44:37] <anonimasu> how's things going?
[15:45:01] <alex_joni> pretty ok
[15:45:03] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni 07NML_take_2 * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc2.hh: added some more comments
[15:45:20] <joe2000che> ?
[15:46:53] <alex_joni> joe2000che: what?
[15:51:47] <joe2000che> o just say CIA post
[15:51:50] <joe2000che> saw*
[15:52:12] <alex_joni> yeah..
[15:52:20] <alex_joni> CIA posts all the CVS commits
[16:02:11] <Jacky^> alex_joni: CIA posted ?
[16:02:38] <Jacky^> when ??
[16:02:41] <Jacky^> :-)
[16:03:29] <alex_joni> http://cia.navi.cx/stats/author/alex_joni
[16:03:30] <Jacky^> i was out of house
[16:05:51] <Jacky^> well..
[16:06:26] <anonimasu> *looking at cars*
[16:06:29] <anonimasu> http://www.blocket.se/view/5275336.htm?caller=nbl_s&l=0&c=1&city=0
[16:08:45] <Jacky^> anonimasu: :\
[16:09:06] <Jacky^> are talking of Cars or toys ? :\
[16:09:15] <Jacky^> http://ferrari-foto.pst-elba.it/linkto.asp?http://www6.@--@.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg149SjYK9k7PyMPiIRvydmwNRxcrtrJJwXsUoQooCtTEuAL4ucPCextolEqg4rFfPnLfQo%5FpJfqqnweTcR0zMFBGeNdPP8JKcidYrRffiVNBGgbckz%2Dzhn4dIKjxTMyziIavKk%2D7JVNf%5FSXpL%2Do13zBTv%5FISa8vzSnLpLHbqI6G15%2D1imVJwE76Yg8tqAWpcJXO4RSemghWTVfZ9JzdV9hqndfiMfenT2rXlf%2DwTfenFySZH9ep9f5vGujMzhCe78ldtAakKb6vZj9h%2DQzWj9mMgnaC%5FAhO4AxBlRGcS0PWay0U9A8PGbz7KEbZ8M6m%5FyGJWHSiCzMhptPhQvCcvPDUOcdCYr
[16:09:30] <Jacky^> taht's a car :)
[16:09:42] <anonimasu> oh, I enjoy looking at car's I might afford.
[16:10:01] <Jacky^> :P
[16:11:07] <Jacky^> http://www.testarossa.nl/
[16:11:16] <Jacky^> redhead :)
[16:11:41] <anonimasu> yeah, but it's not like I could ever afford a ferarri..
[16:12:19] <Jacky^> oh..
[16:12:56] <anonimasu> :D
[16:14:18] <Jacky^> http://newmexiken.com/images/2004/06/Ferrari.jpg
[16:14:41] <anonimasu> now that's a real car :D
[16:14:48] <anonimasu> or well toy.
[16:14:57] <anonimasu> engineering toy ;)
[16:15:05] <Jacky^> hehe
[16:15:54] <Jacky^> also have onboard cnc lool :P
[16:16:35] <anonimasu> heh
[16:17:13] <Jacky^> just a dream .. :(���
[16:17:19] <anonimasu> yep
[16:17:51] <anonimasu> the jaguar I pasted are about 17500eur
[16:18:09] <Jymmm> live?
[16:18:18] <Jymmm> or you looking at cars still
[16:18:20] <Jacky^> hey Jymmm !!
[16:18:27] <Jymmm> Hola Jacky^
[16:18:27] <anonimasu> yeah was looking at cars..
[16:18:29] <Jacky^> how mmany hot there ?
[16:18:40] <Jacky^> eherm 37 �
[16:18:44] <Jacky^> we died
[16:18:59] <anonimasu> looking at a jaguar xk6 there are some with great prices..
[16:19:23] <Jymmm> Jacky^ http://www.google.com/search?q=weather+san+jose+ca
[16:19:26] <Jacky^> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
[16:19:35] <Jacky^> ops, ,sorry,..
[16:19:42] <anonimasu> but they are with the small engine.. just 200kw ;)
[16:19:51] <Jymmm> Jacky^ http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/KSJC.html
[16:19:56] <Jacky^> the ,eyboard also suffer the hot !
[16:20:02] <Jymmm> lol
[16:20:03] <anonimasu> it's cold over here
[16:20:05] <anonimasu> :/
[16:20:07] <Jacky^> won't work
[16:20:21] <Jymmm> suppose to be 87 on Thursday =(
[16:20:45] <Jymmm> Jacky^ try the first link than. the 2nd is governemtn
[16:21:35] <Jymmm> google doens't advertise it, but they grab a weather feed too =)
[16:21:48] <Jymmm> Jacky^ what city are you in?
[16:22:46] <Jymmm> MY back is SO sore this morning =(
[16:23:11] <Jacky^> Jymmm: here: http://www.campaniameteo.it/webcamnapoli2.asp
[16:23:45] <Jacky^> or here for panoramic http://www.campaniameteo.it/webcams.asp
[16:25:13] <Jacky^> umpf :\
[16:38:16] <Jacky^> Jymmm: http://www.naplesitaly.info/
[16:38:21] <Jacky^> :)
[16:40:03] <Jacky^> in this towser is where anna (my girlfriend work) http://www.centrodirezionale.info/
[16:44:53] <Jacky^> or here is the same place http://www.capriweb.com/web/Itineraries/itinerary.php?lan=Ita&id=16
[16:49:00] <Jacky^> seem funny :)
[17:10:34] <alex_joni> buggerit
[17:10:41] <alex_joni> seems that HEAD doesn't compile :(
[17:10:54] <alex_joni> on emc2 that is ...
[17:56:34] <Jymmmm> FWIW.... X-cad.net is Alibre.com (do a NSLOOKUP on both)
[17:57:28] <SWP_Away> Alibre is probably the most annoying company I've dealt with in the last few years
[17:57:31] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[17:59:24] <Jymmmm> Yeah, but they're giving away SW for the first 100k that signup
[17:59:42] <SWPadnos> supposedly
[17:59:51] <SWPadnos> but you *really* don't want them to have your contact info
[18:00:25] <Jymmmm> Heh, you don't actually give them your REAL email address, just use your spam address.
[18:01:04] <SWPadnos> I actually tried to get a demo of Alibre CAD, so yes, I did give them my real info (I haven't signed up for the Amazing X-Cad Offer (tm)
[18:01:40] <SWPadnos> their idea of a demo is to have you follow along on the web, while one of their experts does stuff with the software
[18:02:06] <SWPadnos> though they make it look like you'll be able to download a trial version, you can't until you do the stupid "Web Training" thing
[18:03:37] <Jymmmm> I made sure to make that comment... no trial or limited version for the 100K that sign up. so we'll see.
[18:04:03] <Jymmmm> But now that they are exposed, it might change their mind. We'll see.
[18:04:07] <SWPadnos> I'm talking about Alibre.com, not X-Cad
[18:04:26] <SWPadnos> I was looking to purchase their software, but I bought CadMax instead
[18:04:59] <SWPadnos> I can't seem to get it through their heads that I already bought a competitor's product, so I'm not in the market any more
[18:07:06] <Jymmmm> if you used your real email address, it's your own fault! =)
[18:09:20] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos you dont have a gmail accoutn of something?
[18:10:40] <SWPadnos> I do, but if I want information sent to me (like mail), then I use my real address
[18:10:53] <SWPadnos> (both Yahoo and GMail)
[18:12:31] <SWPadnos> incidentally, if you want a good solids modeller, then CadMax is hard to beat
[18:15:08] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: the web training is a lie.
[18:15:11] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm, did you ever get a tapper?
[18:15:18] <SWPadnos> what par t of it?
[18:15:23] <anonimasu> everything.
[18:15:41] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I follow you
[18:15:58] <anonimasu> I Did not have any online demo when I tried it
[18:16:08] <SWPadnos> well, that's what they told me
[18:16:17] <anonimasu> Oh, I downloaded it and tried it..
[18:16:17] <SWPadnos> when did you do it?
[18:16:27] <anonimasu> remember when we talked about it?
[18:16:32] <SWPadnos> from Alibre.com?
[18:16:33] <anonimasu> about that time
[18:16:37] <anonimasu> yes
[18:16:43] <SWPadnos> ok, so around 4 months ago or so
[18:16:48] <SWPadnos> (maybe)
[18:16:59] <anonimasu> yeah, you were talking about the online web thing back then also..
[18:17:13] <SWPadnos> I signed up to get a demo, and received an email saying "Here;s your password" - but there was no password.
[18:17:29] <SWPadnos> I called them, and was told that you don't actually get to download it until you do the web demo
[18:18:07] <anonimasu> well, I guess they've changed it...
[18:18:23] <anonimasu> adlibre was pretty good..
[18:18:54] <SWPadnos> I ended up buying CadMax - $295, true parametric solid modeling, has STL export
[18:19:35] <SWPadnos> I added the $75 STLWorks from Imsevice, and I now have full CAD / CAM for under $400
[18:19:51] <SWPadnos> Not quite as good as SolidWorks, but 1/10 the cost
[18:23:42] <anonimasu> f/me yawns
[18:27:41] <Jymmmm> STLWorks is what exactly? CAM ?
[18:30:38] <Jacky^> uuuhaaaa
[18:31:19] <Jacky^> cad will be freeeeeeee !!!
[18:32:01] <Jacky^> please, do not pay for it
[18:32:09] <Jymmmm> but CAM is a bitch!
[18:32:20] <Jacky^> :))
[18:33:37] <Jacky^> soon we will start to work at a new CAD for Linux
[18:33:55] <Jymmmm> work on a CAM instead.
[18:35:10] <SWPadnos> sorry - yes - STLWorks takes an STL file and outputs G-code
[18:35:10] <Jacky^> as cad I mean also cam, sure..
[18:35:25] <SWPadnos> simple, but it works OK
[18:35:37] <Jymmmm> anything special about a STL file?
[18:35:38] <Jacky^> nahh..
[18:35:49] <SWPadnos> it's the CAM software included with DeskCNC
[18:36:11] <Jymmmm> and the cam in desckcnc isn't tht good?
[18:36:18] <SWPadnos> (botha re Windows-only, unfortunately - I haaven't tried with WINE)
[18:36:33] <SWPadnos> it seems fine, but I haven't run any parts yet
[18:36:42] <SWPadnos> I haven't run any servos yet :)
[18:36:51] <Jacky^> we need an advanced Cad/cam
[18:37:40] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos : You have DeskCNC but never used the CAM in it, but you bought another CAM to use with it?
[18:37:54] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[18:38:01] <SWPadnos> no, I have STLworks, which is available separately
[18:38:21] <SWPadnos> and is the CAM part of DeskCNC
[18:38:33] <SWPadnos> I use that with CadMax as my modeller
[18:38:46] <SWPadnos> and emc as my machine controller (once I have a machine that can be controlled)
[18:39:57] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: is deskcnc open source ?
[18:40:05] <SWPadnos> nope
[18:40:16] <SWPadnos> http://www.deskcnc.com
[18:40:20] <Jacky^> well.. closed argoument..
[18:40:26] <Jacky^> no thanks
[18:40:39] <Jacky^> we need to be free
[18:40:52] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's crap, but the CAM program is cheap, and it works
[18:41:13] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: i'm using artcam (cracked)
[18:41:26] <SWPadnos> well - that's cheaper ;)
[18:41:31] <Jacky^> if i need closed proprietary software..
[18:41:43] <Jymmm> is artcam any good?
[18:41:48] <Jacky^> nah..
[18:41:57] <Jacky^> not soo much the say..
[18:42:09] <Jacky^> they*
[18:43:02] <Jacky^> i think we need to find a way, as gimp developers has found
[18:43:33] <SWPadnos> for cool 3-D stuff (and 5-axis CAM), you can use GMax and the CNC Toolkit
[18:43:39] <SWPadnos> http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_toolkit.htm
[18:43:46] <SWPadnos> not all open source, but it is free
[18:44:03] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: qcad it's also a good app
[18:44:13] <Jacky^> not the solution we need
[18:44:38] <SWPadnos> I plan to try QCad, Synergy, and BRL_CAD when I get a chance
[18:44:51] <SWPadnos> until then, I have a $400 solution that works well for me. :)
[18:45:11] <Jacky^> ah ok..
[18:45:21] <Jacky^> i'm also ok with artcam
[18:45:31] <Jacky^> maybe one day i will buy it
[18:45:39] <Jacky^> if i need
[18:45:52] <Jacky^> but hope don't need it
[18:46:42] <Jacky^> gimp could be have cam feautures maybe
[18:46:45] <Jacky^> or,
[18:46:54] <Jacky^> sodipodi
[18:47:49] <Jacky^> well, we need to get it
[18:48:08] <Jacky^> soon..
[18:49:50] <Jymmm> InkScape has floating poitnt issues as of 8 months ago, so not a good thing for CAD/CAM
[18:50:06] <Jacky^> we just need to made join more possible peolpe togheter
[18:51:11] <Jacky^> if everyone works alone we lose time
[18:51:25] <Jymmm> is BDI fedora or debian based?
[18:51:33] <Jacky^> no
[18:51:37] <Jacky^> RH based
[18:51:46] <Jymmm> fedora is RH
[18:51:55] <Jacky^> yeah
[18:52:39] <SWPadnos> BDI is Debian/Knoppix based
[18:52:49] <SWPadnos> Morphix, actually
[18:53:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm googles Morphix
[18:53:16] <Jacky^> Jymmm: google Ubuntu !
[18:53:27] <SWPadnos> no - google Mepis
[18:53:31] <Jacky^> if you're looking for Debain based distro
[18:53:43] <Jacky^> Debian
[18:54:14] <SWPadnos> Mepis is also Debian-based
[18:54:27] <Jacky^> bah..
[18:54:33] <Jacky^> obsolet ..
[18:54:33] <SWPadnos> It seems to detect and use hardware much better than others
[18:54:49] <Jacky^> try Ubuntu, and after say..
[18:55:12] <SWPadnos> is there an Ubuntu for X86-64?
[18:55:18] <Jacky^> sure
[18:55:45] <Jacky^> 2.6.12 kernel
[18:55:57] <SWPadnos> o
[18:55:59] <SWPadnos> ok
[18:56:05] <Jacky^> i would like a thing
[18:56:14] <Jacky^> like to know a thing
[18:56:19] <SWPadnos> me, too :)
[18:56:45] <Jacky^> what's the more evoluted lib for graphic development
[18:56:51] <Jacky^> now
[18:57:13] <SWPadnos> what kind of graphics work?
[18:57:27] <SWPadnos> (2D, 3D, image processing, feature recognition, etc)
[18:57:33] <Jacky^> of course, cad/cam
[18:57:41] <SWPadnos> OpenGL?
[18:57:48] <Jacky^> dga
[18:57:51] <Jacky^> yeah
[18:57:54] <Jacky^> allll !
[18:58:21] <SWPadnos> dunno - ask websys or narnia - they both work on CAD programs
[18:58:44] <Jacky^> uhmmm websys seem to me a bot :\
[18:58:46] <SWPadnos> also cradek and jepler, since the AXIS interface has 3D backplot
[18:58:56] <Jacky^> I know..
[18:59:04] <Jacky^> also Ray Henry
[18:59:05] <SWPadnos> nope - he's a guy in the central US :)
[18:59:49] <SWPadnos> yep - though Ray, cradek and jepler all probably used libraries to hide the underlying graphic library (TCL/Tk and python)
[19:00:03] <Jacky^> mmmhh
[19:00:03] <Jacky^> ok
[19:00:04] <Jacky^> i wroe an email to a friend
[19:00:06] <Jacky^> i'm waiting for the reply
[19:00:07] <Jymmm> Now I have to find a video card and disable the onboard video on this mobo
[19:00:16] <SWPadnos> Matrox G200
[19:00:26] <Jacky^> maybe he could be interested on cad developmente, (I hope)
[19:00:46] <Jymmm> I aint buying a video card, I have to go dig one out from downstairs
[19:01:23] <Jymmm> I have a shitload of ATI Mach64 and AIW cards
[19:01:24] <Jacky^> nvidia- ati. finish ..
[19:01:32] <Jacky^> maybe better Ati
[19:01:42] <SWPadnos> fine... be that way ;)
[19:02:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos : Hey, they MADE me disbale the onboard video, so there! ha!
[19:02:39] <Jacky^> Jymmm: which onboard video ? sys ?
[19:02:48] <SWPadnos> i810 crap
[19:02:49] <Jymmm> Intel ca810e mobo
[19:02:53] <Jacky^> lool
[19:03:02] <Jacky^> :\
[19:03:46] <SWPadnos> actually Jymmm, you may want to try a BDI on that machine before looking too far for a video card
[19:04:11] <SWPadnos> I have a kiosk machine with onboard video (though it's not in the chipset, it does use shared memory)
[19:04:35] <SWPadnos> it has pretty good latency numbers - like 6 us (it's a celeron 500, 512M)
[19:04:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos : Someone said the onboard video causes performance issues.
[19:04:54] <SWPadnos> I know - that's the mantra, but you should just check first
[19:05:15] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is now known as BDIBetaBitch
[19:05:26] <SWPadnos> Allright, Baby
[19:05:41] <Jacky^> Jymmm: another way is to compile the kernel from yourself
[19:05:50] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe I'll install that touchscreen driver again
[19:05:57] <Jacky^> not so hard
[19:06:04] <Jymmm> oh wth, why not. I have SWPadnos address and can send him a rabbied bunny if it doesn't work!
[19:06:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos BASTARD! gimme the touch screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[19:06:50] <SWPadnos> heh - it's only 800x600 resolution
[19:06:51] <Jacky^> Jymmm: if you ask to paul you will get any information about to compile a kernel
[19:06:55] <SWPadnos> 12 inch
[19:06:55] <Jymmm> Oh, how do you change EVERYTHING that's on eth1 to eth0 ?
[19:07:02] <Jacky^> i' sure
[19:07:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I dont care, I've always wanted a touch screen to paly with.
[19:07:31] <SWPadnos> I've mentioned before - the trouble with touchscreens is that there's no right-click (or middle click, for that matter)
[19:07:34] <Jacky^> bleahhh what touchscreennnn
[19:07:58] <Jacky^> touchscreen it's things of girls !
[19:08:02] <Jacky^> :\
[19:08:03] <SWPadnos> ebay has many - ther was an NEC 15" LCD with touch for $189 yesterday (1024x768)
[19:08:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Well, that based upon the UI
[19:08:22] <SWPadnos> right - the UI has to use "left-click" only - somewhat restrictive
[19:08:27] <Jacky^> yeah.. ebayyyy...
[19:08:42] <Jacky^> ghghghg
[19:09:20] <Jacky^> touchscreeen are things of girls.. please...
[19:09:36] <Jymmm> or dbl-click
[19:09:41] <Jacky^> :)
[19:09:44] <Jacky^> yeah
[19:10:08] <SWPadnos> double-click and drag are harder with touchscreens - there's more apparent pointer motion between "clicks"
[19:10:40] <Jymmm> I've seen POS use them, seemed good for the task.
[19:11:12] <SWPadnos> most POSes use single click only - they just look like double-clicks because the waitrons are so fast :)
[19:11:36] <Jacky^> erase the mouse !
[19:11:47] <Jacky^> switch to ION window manager
[19:12:24] <robin_sz> POS?
[19:12:27] <Jacky^> take the power in your hands
[19:12:41] <Jymmm> POS == Point Of Sale
[19:12:44] <robin_sz> ah
[19:12:48] <SWPadnos> or Piece Of Shit
[19:12:53] <robin_sz> I thought you meant the other POS
[19:12:57] <SWPadnos> (usually used with cars)
[19:13:01] <robin_sz> what SWPadnos said :)
[19:13:24] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz :D
[19:13:26] <Jymmm> POS == barcode scanner, kybd, screen, etc, basically a computer with a cashdrawer
[19:13:37] <robin_sz> Jacky^: bonjourno
[19:13:48] <Jacky^> robin_sz: ciaoo :))
[19:14:08] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5211529077
[19:14:40] <robin_sz> ooh, I just got motion to work (as in the webcam based motion detection thing) ... kewl
[19:15:00] <Jacky^> I must go in hospital in order to visit my grandson, tomorrow will be operated
[19:15:05] <Jacky^> see you later
[19:15:11] <SWPadnos> good luck
[19:15:18] <Jacky^> thanks
[19:15:32] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^afk
[19:16:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm - here's an interesting one too: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5211748255
[19:20:21] <Jymmm> SOB! This machien worked fine, then wouldn't power up. Replaced the PS, and it powered up. Now, try to turn it on again and nada! But the standby led in on so at least there's some power there. what a PITA!!!
[19:21:12] <SWPadnos> heh - here's the machine I Have (other than the CPU / memory changes): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5212146304
[19:21:19] <Jymmm> Ooooooooooooh, smack the bitch and it powers up!
[19:21:34] <SWPadnos> that's the official "Technician's Whack"
[19:22:08] <Jymmm> Hey, I've fixed HDD's doint that, bad added in a hair dryer too.
[19:24:22] <Jymmm> The spindle froze, used the dryer to heat it up, then a goos WACK to get it to start spinning. Then ghosted it faster than you can say 'oh shit' =)
[19:25:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:26:04] <Jymmm> works on old quantum and fujitsu drives
[19:26:22] <robin_sz> ive had SCSI drives where one of the three phases of the ac motor in it has gone open circuit
[19:26:47] <robin_sz> if you put it on long leads, you can give the case a spin in your hand to start it up :)
[19:29:22] <SWPadnos> kind of like the old stiction problems with seagate drives
[19:29:36] <SWPadnos> give it a twist, and suddenly it works
[19:31:52] <websys> Geez - wanted to tell Jacky I'm not a bot
[19:32:20] <SWPadnos> heh - a guy in central US, I said (maybe that should have been the midwest :) )
[19:32:42] <websys> Great Lakes maybe?
[19:32:49] <SWPadnos> that would work too
[19:33:14] <websys> At least you can see those from a satelite
[19:34:14] <SWPadnos> you're somewhat close to where my wife grew up
[19:34:20] <SWPadnos> (Ripon)
[19:34:40] <websys> Yup - about 60 miles from here
[19:34:47] <anonimasu> I love the fact that you can see area51 at google maps.. or whatever it's called :)
[19:34:51] <anonimasu> can/could
[19:34:53] <Jymmm> oh this is weird... the PC won't even power up on one specific hdd is installed. Never heard of that before?!
[19:35:14] <SWPadnos> just power plugged in, or power and data?
[19:35:18] <websys> I saw that a few weeks ago with a bad drive
[19:35:38] <websys> IDE cable in killed it
[19:35:40] <anonimasu> that's strange
[19:36:11] <Jymmm> websys same cable for both drives though
[19:36:21] <websys> yes
[19:36:26] <Jymmm> and a PC should power up if nothing else than a fdd boot
[19:36:32] <websys> master/slave
[19:36:55] <Jymmm> websys: No removable carriages. and I swapped out the carriages too
[19:37:30] <websys> I was thinking my drive had a short and the PS dectected and refused to come up
[19:38:19] <Jymmm> Well, PWR_GOOD is from the mobo to the PS, so it can't really detect that.
[19:38:43] <SWPadnos> have you tried swapping cages on the drives?
[19:38:48] <Jymmm> the PS might see a short on the line.
[19:39:16] <SWPadnos> yeah - there could be a short in one of the carriages
[19:39:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Actually yeah. I swapped the know good one and it works when one hdd is in to, but not the other hdd.
[19:39:16] <websys> I thought the PS had logic in it to detect shorts in the 12 and 5 supplies
[19:39:28] <Jymmm> websys the PS might, but not the mobo
[19:39:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos already eliminated the carriages.
[19:39:46] <SWPadnos> ok
[19:39:50] <Jymmm> and the IDE cables too.
[19:40:05] <SWPadnos> I'd be surprised if a HD could trip the overcurrent detect on a PS without letting out large amounts of smoke
[19:40:10] <Jymmm> it's the HDD itself it looks like. Let me see if I have a 3rd hdd for testing.
[19:40:20] <SWPadnos> the 12V rails can usually drive 15A or more
[19:41:02] <Jymmm> well, no dead short on the 12/5v lines of the hdd.
[19:42:06] <websys> Seems it was some circuit on the HD that when posered caused a short which in turn shut down PS
[19:42:25] <websys> powered
[19:44:37] <Jymmm> websys See, thats the thing. A failed HDD preventing the system from powering on is just way too weird. I don't even know if that's possible. The HDD doesn't have a short circuit on the pwoer lines, so that leaves the IDE cable. But what signal on the IDE cable could tell the MOBO not to power on?!
[19:45:15] <SWPadnos> well - the chipset asks the PS for power, so anything that screws up something in the chipset could make it not power up
[19:45:46] <websys> The HD power lines don't have a short until the IDE cable triggers a gate to open which causes the short
[19:46:15] <websys> Then the PS shut down because it detects the short
[19:46:20] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's any way that the PS would shut off in time to keep the smoke in the drive
[19:46:46] <websys> Ummm - the new detectors are very fast
[19:47:01] <SWPadnos> in that scenario, the transistor that causes the short would likely fry long before the PS shuts down
[19:47:21] <SWPadnos> the PS can supply 10-20 amps on the 12V line - way more than any component in the drive is likely to handle
[19:47:30] <Jymmm> Oh this is weird... I removed all hdd fromt eh computer and it turned on. Now while it was on I quickly pluged in the power from this bad hdd and the system shut down.
[19:47:47] <SWPadnos> and it would probably have to get up to 30-50A before deciding that it's really a short
[19:47:54] <SWPadnos> (for a short time - no pun intended)
[19:47:55] <websys> Yup - I have a drive just like that
[19:47:57] <anonimasu> you probably fried it..
[19:47:58] <Jymmm> So somehow, either the PS or the mobo is detecting a failure
[19:48:06] <anonimasu> hotswap drives har soft power on electronics
[19:48:20] <Jymmm> anonimasu Nah, it's booting up as we speak
[19:48:21] <anonimasu> err bays
[19:48:39] <anonimasu> well they can die if you do it
[19:48:47] <SWPadnos> well - I may be totally wrong there , websys :)
[19:49:06] <SWPadnos> that does sound like an extremely fast short ciurcuit detection
[19:49:33] <anonimasu> I hope I have enough power in the work laptop to finish this plc program
[19:49:57] <Jymmm> That is probably what fried the first PS.
[19:50:08] <anonimasu> I dont have the dev stuff at the home laptop
[19:50:08] <websys> the old ones worked like fuses and let the smoke out - the new ones measure rate of change and start to clamp
[19:50:50] <anonimasu> so with a modern psu you getdeep fried stuff
[19:50:52] <Jymmm> I wonder if SMART ahs anythign to do with it?
[19:50:59] <anonimasu> instead of just fried.. :D
[19:51:17] <Jymmm> WOOHOO! Free Magnets!!!!
[19:51:21] <Jymmm> and coasters too
[19:51:49] <websys> With the smoke still inside
[19:57:33] <Jymmm> not after I take a screwdriver to it =)
[19:57:42] <websys> ;)
[19:58:43] <robin_sz> would you like a screwdriver?
[19:59:02] <robin_sz> approx: "well, go on then, I cant get this hub cap off"
[19:59:09] <robin_sz> approx?
[19:59:12] <websys> SawzAll is faster
[19:59:22] <robin_sz> I despair of the autocompletion on xchat
[20:00:19] <anonimasu> haha
[20:50:52] <Jacky^afk> Jacky^afk is now known as Jacky^
[20:51:22] <Jacky^> halo
[20:56:26] <Jacky^> mmhhh
[21:15:27] <SWPadnos> woohoo - no more annoying beeps from the UPS!! :)
[21:17:37] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: did you kill it?
[21:17:47] <SWPadnos> nope - I "fixed" it :)
[21:18:02] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: did you disconnect the noise making part? :P
[21:18:14] <SWPadnos> I thought I was going to have to replace the battery, but just disconnecting / reconnecting it stopped the "every 2 seconds around the clock" beeping
[21:18:24] <SWPadnos> the battery, that is :)
[21:28:04] <alex_joni> evening
[21:30:45] <Jacky^> hi alex_joni
[21:31:35] <alex_joni> any good C/C++ coders around?
[21:31:54] <Jacky^> mhhh...
[21:32:07] <Jacky^> nope
[21:32:25] <alex_joni> seems like it
[21:32:44] <Jacky^> alex_joni:
[21:32:52] <alex_joni> ?
[21:33:15] <Jacky^> wich lib can we use to develop a free cad for linux ?
[21:33:35] <alex_joni> no idea ;)
[21:33:51] <alex_joni> you could join qCad
[21:33:51] <alex_joni> and help develop that
[21:33:51] <Jacky^> mmhh..
[21:33:54] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:33:59] <alex_joni> hey Stephen
[21:34:03] <SWPadnos> hiya
[21:34:06] <alex_joni> short question *g*
[21:34:11] <Jacky^> no, i first want to make an idea
[21:34:18] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: Accessing C++ Classes From C
[21:34:31] <Jacky^> about what already exist
[21:34:42] <SWPadnos> nope - bad plan
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: smthg like :
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> struct M; /* you can supply only an incomplete declaration */
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> int call_M_foo(struct M*, int); /* declare the wrapper function */
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> int f(struct M* p, int j) /* now you can call M::foo */
[21:34:44] <alex_joni> { return call_M_foo(p, j); }
[21:35:22] <alex_joni> wtf is wrong with cvs tonight?
[21:35:30] <alex_joni> waiting for 10 mins for a cvs diff
[21:35:31] <alex_joni> :(
[21:39:16] <alex_joni> darn.. it takes ages
[21:43:54] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, what are you trying to accomplish by calling C++ class member functions from C?
[21:44:09] <alex_joni> I need to call a method
[21:44:16] <alex_joni> part of a c++ class
[21:44:18] <Imperator_> Hi all
[21:44:25] <SWPadnos> the problem is the "this" pointer
[21:44:25] <alex_joni> but I think it would be best to make that function static
[21:44:27] <SWPadnos> hi Martin
[21:44:34] <alex_joni> and call it from within the class
[21:44:37] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[21:44:41] <alex_joni> got those LS's
[21:44:43] <alex_joni> thx a lot
[21:45:22] <SWPadnos> if you have a calss foo with a function foo::bar(), it's not visible outside the class (in C++)
[21:45:30] <SWPadnos> except to explicitly declared friend classes
[21:45:32] <alex_joni> right
[21:45:45] <SWPadnos> so even the "wrapper" would be part of the class, and therefore inaccessible to C
[21:45:47] <alex_joni> but I could make the code inside bar() actually another function
[21:45:53] <alex_joni> static function
[21:46:02] <alex_joni> and call that code from the foo:bar()
[21:46:04] <alex_joni> or from C
[21:46:15] <SWPadnos> sure - if you have a C function in the C++ source file, it'll be accessible to either C or C++ code
[21:46:21] <alex_joni> right
[21:46:33] <SWPadnos> but you need to have it declared in a "C" block
[21:46:54] <SWPadnos> so it can't have any access to C++ features (like member functions or overloading)
[21:47:45] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ seams that the german EMC guys are buying now all the mesa FPGA Board !!! We have put a message in a german forum, to get five people together, so the card is now only 155$
[21:47:49] <SWPadnos> there may be some nutty tricks that can be used, but I dont know them (and I wouldn't use them if I did :) )
[21:48:11] <SWPadnos> cool - I ordered one last Friday - it shuold be here on Thursday
[21:48:14] <SWPadnos> should
[21:48:22] <Imperator_> cool
[21:48:33] <robin_sz> Imperator_: what are they using the FPGA card to do?
[21:48:36] <Imperator_> than we have now a new EMC standard hardware
[21:48:59] <SWPadnos> think internal G2002
[21:49:09] <robin_sz> nice
[21:49:21] <SWPadnos> the card is $199 in single quantity
[21:49:28] <robin_sz> bargain
[21:49:33] <SWPadnos> has a Xilinx 200k gate FPGA on it
[21:50:15] <robin_sz> so .. all the RT stuff can be handled by the hardware?
[21:50:21] <SWPadnos> sure
[21:50:29] <Imperator_> robin_sz: Jan and I want to bulid three breakout board, one with a quad DAC and some in/outputs for the AMP; one for the encoders and limit switches and one with some general digital IOs
[21:50:31] <robin_sz> so no need for an RT kernel?
[21:50:39] <SWPadnos> http://www.mesanet.com/motioncardinfo.html - it's the 5I20
[21:51:13] <SWPadnos> you still need RT for the trajectory stuff, I think
[21:51:22] <Jacky^> umpf...
[21:51:22] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: and kins ;)
[21:51:25] <Jacky^> :\
[21:51:27] <SWPadnos> and probably for the servo loop (there's no analog on this card, though)
[21:51:32] <Jacky^> hi robin_sz
[21:51:37] <SWPadnos> yeah - kins - that's what I meant :)
[21:51:41] <Imperator_> alex_joni: do you also need one ? we are now 4 people, and one more will deside tomorrow ! then the card is only 155$
[21:51:44] <alex_joni> kins & traj
[21:51:56] <alex_joni> Imperator_: lemme look at the card
[21:51:56] <SWPadnos> well - floats anyway ;)
[21:52:26] <Imperator_> alex_joni: http://5128.rapidforum.com/topic=115678019347
[21:53:02] <SWPadnos> I think you need an account for that page, Martin
[21:53:31] <Imperator_> jep, Alex has one :-)
[21:53:37] <Imperator_> sorry stephen
[21:53:43] <SWPadnos> ah no trouble :)
[21:53:52] <Imperator_> its german only
[21:53:52] <SWPadnos> I can't read German anyway :)
[21:55:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: no interesting stuff there
[21:55:03] <alex_joni> :P
[21:55:06] <alex_joni> kidding
[21:55:13] <alex_joni> Imperator_: don't really need one now :(
[21:55:18] <alex_joni> but it surely looks great
[21:55:25] <SWPadnos> of course not - how can any non-english site have anything interesting? :P
[21:56:53] <Imperator_> :-)
[21:57:18] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: the mine :)
[21:57:56] <SWPadnos> :)
[21:58:07] <Jacky^> ;-)
[21:58:11] <Imperator_> that forum is not that interesting, you can read there only middle level stuff, but a lot of people meet there to realise something
[21:58:17] <Imperator_> like Jan and I
[21:58:33] <Imperator_> Jan = make_some_noise
[21:58:48] <SWPadnos> have you looked at the softDMC manual from Mesa?
[21:58:57] <Imperator_> nope
[21:59:11] <Imperator_> not realy
[21:59:12] <SWPadnos> they have a lot of interesting stuff to put in the FPGA - like gearing
[21:59:30] <Imperator_> jep, but i think that is bette done in emc
[21:59:39] <SWPadnos> PID loops, position tracking, logic stuff
[21:59:41] <Imperator_> better
[21:59:48] <SWPadnos> some of it yes, but gearing is better off in hardware
[21:59:49] <alex_joni> nice
[21:59:50] <Imperator_> PId is very interesting
[22:00:10] <SWPadnos> and a lot of the parameters are just pointers, kind of like HAL pins
[22:00:51] <SWPadnos> they talk about how gearing is "slow" - like 500ns :)
[22:01:16] <Imperator_> tssss
[22:01:38] <Imperator_> which hardware can follow such a speed ?
[22:02:03] <SWPadnos> yeah - it doesn't seem that slow to me either
[22:02:16] <alex_joni> maybe ms
[22:02:17] <alex_joni> ;)
[22:02:24] <Imperator_> I think that card can make a lot of fun
[22:02:30] <SWPadnos> no - it's ns - this is an FPGA after all
[22:02:48] <alex_joni> I know...
[22:03:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:03:28] <alex_joni> maybe they confused the two :P
[22:03:29] <alex_joni> or they are used to faster things :)
[22:03:36] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: if you need one of our boards, let me know
[22:03:37] <SWPadnos> and, all the VHDL source is included
[22:03:55] <SWPadnos> I have one on the way, but thanks (I'll let you know if I blow mine up :) )
[22:04:30] <Imperator_> ah sorry, i mean on of our breakout boards, we are designing
[22:04:42] <SWPadnos> ah - maybe, then
[22:05:02] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: my rcs book will be here soon :P
[22:05:06] <SWPadnos> though I may be able to make a simple breakout / LED board pretty inexpensively (and shi[[
[22:05:07] <SWPadnos> cool
[22:05:29] <SWPadnos> shipping from Deutschland could be more expensive than a prototype PCB :)
[22:05:41] <alex_joni> heh
[22:05:42] <Imperator_> for debugging that would be good
[22:06:01] <Imperator_> if you have eagle, i mail you the stuff
[22:06:12] <Imperator_> Eagle from Cadsoft
[22:06:16] <Imperator_> www.cadsoft.de
[22:06:21] <SWPadnos> I haven't used it, but I do have it somewhere around here :)
[22:06:47] <Jacky^> bleah...
[22:06:58] <Imperator_> if you make a board, it would be good to use that software, then all are made with the same CAD software
[22:06:58] <Jacky^> O_o
[22:07:18] <SWPadnos> true - but I have Protel Advanced PCB :)
[22:07:23] <SWPadnos> (and I'm used to it)
[22:07:28] <Imperator_> oh, ok
[22:08:00] <Imperator_> big software to expensive for hobby users
[22:08:05] <Imperator_> too
[22:08:16] <Jacky^> nah..
[22:08:23] <Jacky^> we don't have it
[22:08:23] <SWPadnos> well - I have an old version
[22:08:29] <Imperator_> have a non profit licence of eagle 150EUR
[22:08:31] <SWPadnos> so it's not too expensive :)
[22:08:36] <Jacky^> that's the problem ..
[22:08:54] <SWPadnos> I do some PCB design for work, so I would need the commercial license
[22:09:14] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: ghghghg
[22:09:21] <Imperator_> and eagle is for free for non profit stuff up to 100x80mm
[22:09:46] <Jacky^> for toys ..
[22:10:07] <Jacky^> Imperator_: which language do you know ?
[22:10:15] <Imperator_> german
[22:10:17] <SWPadnos> the $399 price is pretty good - especially if I can dual-license on Linux and Windows
[22:10:38] <Jacky^> o, i mean C, Python, Perl, etc..
[22:10:42] <SWPadnos> oh - wait - that's $800 for both schematic and PCB
[22:10:44] <Imperator_> Jacky^: or what do you mean ???
[22:10:54] <Imperator_> C C++
[22:10:58] <Jacky^> nice
[22:11:07] <Imperator_> C++ not realy
[22:11:29] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: to much for open source stuff
[22:11:35] <SWPadnos> true
[22:11:47] <SWPadnos> but I can still make OS things with a commercial version
[22:11:52] <Jacky^> i'm looking for peoples who want to developed a free CAD for Linux
[22:12:00] <Jacky^> woukd you like to join us ?
[22:12:02] <Imperator_> the good thing is that also with the free licence you can open large boards and view them
[22:12:15] <SWPadnos> I write software for a living, so I'm pretty careful about buying whatever I use, especially if I use it for profit
[22:12:30] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. There's a news article up on the freenode website. Tucked at the end is information about critical downtime this week. Please read it.
[22:12:31] <Imperator_> Jacky^: that is nothing you to in the evening
[22:12:39] <SWPadnos> http://www.brlcad.org/
[22:12:47] <lilo> [Global Notice] At the top of the article: Of the 20,000+ people who use freenode on a regular basis only ~370 have donated to the fundraiser. We need your help!
[22:12:59] <lilo> [Global Notice] If you're one of those 20,000 users, please please take a look at: http://freenode.net/news.shtml
[22:13:00] <Jacky^> Imperator_: I know..
[22:13:02] <Imperator_> I'm used to use TEBIS CAM or ProENGINEER
[22:13:10] <Imperator_> big software
[22:19:50] <Imperator_> Don't think that developing a CAD program as open source is that sucessfull
[22:20:50] <SWPadnos> I think there have been lots of projects, but they all seem to fail in the user interface
[22:21:02] <SWPadnos> ie, they're impossible to use :)
[22:21:41] <Imperator_> jep, that problem has also ProENGINEER
[22:21:59] <Imperator_> they are changing the GUI all the time
[22:22:39] <SWPadnos> I think that's the main reason why SolidWorks has gotten so popular
[22:23:16] <Imperator_> its cheap
[22:23:35] <SWPadnos> well - midrange these days, but yeah
[22:23:42] <SWPadnos> it's also really easy to use, and looks nice
[22:24:16] <SWPadnos> too bad they're in bed with Microsoft
[22:24:27] <Imperator_> the problem is that they have all swiched to the windows style, SolidWorks was the first
[22:25:10] <Imperator_> so you can easy start, but you cant also as a advanced user get realy fast
[22:25:37] <Imperator_> do you know the old menu manager of ProENGINEER up to version 19 ?
[22:26:15] <SWPadnos> nope :)
[22:26:40] <SWPadnos> I used CadKey (version 1.42e) in college, and a little bit of old AutoCad
[22:26:52] <SWPadnos> then SolidWorks, and now the really cheap CadMax
[22:27:42] <Imperator_> a menue on the rigth, you began to klick on the top, then it opend some more suff under it, and then you began to klick from top to bottom, and at the end you had your feature
[22:28:06] <SWPadnos> OK - sort of a series of tabs for each menu?
[22:28:13] <SWPadnos> (like Synergy?)
[22:28:19] <SWPadnos> but more levels
[22:28:20] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
[22:28:21] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:28:21] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:28:21] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:28:21] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:28:22] <Imperator_> after using that some weeks you get so fast that you don't have to look where you are klicking
[22:28:40] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/iotask/ (ioControl.cc simIoControl.cc):
[22:28:40] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:28:40] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:28:40] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:28:40] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:28:46] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/usrmotintf.cc:
[22:28:46] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:28:46] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:28:46] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:28:48] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:29:01] <SWPadnos> I see alex got CVS working again ;)
[22:29:03] <Imperator_> Alex is working
[22:29:10] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc:
[22:29:11] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:29:11] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:29:11] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:29:11] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:29:20] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
[22:29:20] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:29:20] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:29:20] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:29:21] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:29:37] <CIA-4> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/src/libnml/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
[22:29:37] <CIA-4> replaced INIFILE with the new Inifle all over the code, now HEAD shouldn't be
[22:29:37] <CIA-4> broken anymore. Also hacked the halcmd Makefile a bit to make it work again.
[22:29:37] <CIA-4> It's safe to use _inifile.c from halcmd, as halcmd so far doesn't write into the
[22:29:37] <CIA-4> ini. if/when it will, it should use the class version.
[22:33:10] <Devils_Delusion> Devils_Delusion is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[22:33:29] <LawrenceG> hi guys... any further ideas for 5i20 card.... I have it loading configs under linux.... was thinking of coding the hal interface for the straight 12 encoder, 12 d/a output model. Very close to motenc
[22:33:59] <robin_sz> interesting ...
[22:35:04] <LawrenceG> probably overkill on channels, but it is a supplied config.... dont have to mess with vhdl to get it running
[22:35:44] <alex_joni> LawrenceG: sounds easy doable
[22:36:04] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone know what the progress is for linux & gecko g2002/g200x/g101/g100?
[22:36:17] <robin_sz> works fine
[22:36:26] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, how's it work together?
[22:36:29] <robin_sz> has done for months ...
[22:36:40] <robin_sz> well, the gui appears on the screen
[22:36:45] <robin_sz> you load a gcode file
[22:36:51] <robin_sz> and press "start"
[22:36:56] <robin_sz> motors go round
[22:37:00] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. setup wise. :)
[22:37:05] <Imperator_> LawrenceG: seams that we are ordering this week five cards for us and some other german guys
[22:37:13] <robin_sz> well, the gui appears on the screen
[22:37:22] <alex_joni> ok guys
[22:37:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going to sleep
[22:37:27] <alex_joni> night
[22:37:29] <robin_sz> you configure the various settings
[22:37:40] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz? so this is in dumb mode?
[22:37:44] <robin_sz> and proceed as before
[22:37:53] <robin_sz> mmm ... dumb>
[22:37:55] <SWPadnos> night, Alex
[22:38:05] <robin_sz> no, this is with the emc interpreter on the rabbit
[22:38:06] <A-L-P-H-A> how's EMC passing movement information for the Gecko to handle?
[22:38:12] <robin_sz> its not ...
[22:38:18] <A-L-P-H-A> oh...........
[22:38:21] <robin_sz> you said linux and G2002
[22:38:26] <robin_sz> not emc and g2002
[22:38:27] <A-L-P-H-A> is that preloaded? or do I need to get a rabbitprogrammer?
[22:38:31] <SWPadnos> semantics, semantics ...
[22:38:40] <robin_sz> preloaded if you want it
[22:38:58] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: not semantics .. there are no plans to have emc drive the g2002
[22:39:10] <SWPadnos> heh - I know that
[22:39:19] <SWPadnos> but you are in the #emc channel right now, so ...
[22:39:36] <robin_sz> well, i didn't ask the question ..
[22:39:44] <A-L-P-H-A> damn... robin_sz's in one of those helpful modes today...
[22:39:56] <robin_sz> nope, just being accurate
[22:40:11] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, how goes the gecko 2002 integrate with emc?
[22:40:22] <SWPadnos> it has EMC on the rabbit microcontroller module
[22:40:36] <SWPadnos> a highly modified version, anyway
[22:41:17] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, so how do I send the gecko gcode? how can I can interact with it?
[22:41:27] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: USB
[22:41:35] <A-L-P-H-A> like I gotta connect to it via a USB -> gecko2002.
[22:41:41] <alex_joni> or ethernet, although I'm not sure eth is ready yet
[22:41:43] <SWPadnos> Imperator_, can you send me an eagle file of something - I have 4.13r1 here, and would like to see something other than a demo board :)
[22:41:45] <A-L-P-H-A> now wht software afterwards.
[22:42:04] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: hehe, wait
[22:42:09] <SWPadnos> ok - thanks
[22:42:29] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, eagle is a good. works really well, and fairly easy to use, after you've done the tutorial.
[22:42:53] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: the gecko 2002 does not integrate with emc, never will
[22:43:32] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: imagine taking emc apart
[22:43:36] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, k. so how do I send GCODEs over to the g2002? Like via what software will it communicate with the board?
[22:43:36] <alex_joni> keep a GUI thingie
[22:43:43] <alex_joni> and the rest goes into the microcontroller
[22:43:50] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni. thank you.
[22:43:53] <alex_joni> there's a custom GUI
[22:43:54] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: the g2002 gui ..
[22:43:59] <alex_joni> which you use to load the gcode
[22:44:09] <alex_joni> and which sends the gcode via USB to the microcontroller
[22:44:12] <robin_sz> which is what I said ages ago
[22:44:49] <A-L-P-H-A> so the guts of EMC was dumped into the rabbit. And there's GUI already made that communicates with the gecko, via usb, that facilitates Gcode and setup information?
[22:44:50] <robin_sz> the same GUI runs on wondows or linux
[22:44:57] <robin_sz> yes
[22:45:03] <SWPadnos> CAD -> CAM -> G2k GUI(Linux) ->{USB,Ethernet} -> G2002 (running a version of EMC) -> Geckos or other step/dir drivers
[22:45:13] <alex_joni> the microcontroller does it's stuff then
[22:45:13] <alex_joni> wondows is nice
[22:45:20] <robin_sz> thats about it :)
[22:45:24] <A-L-P-H-A> wrongdows. :D
[22:45:25] <alex_joni> maybe G200x (running a version of EMC) is a bit much said
[22:45:31] <alex_joni> it's more like:
[22:45:41] <alex_joni> G200x (running bits of EMC)
[22:45:43] <robin_sz> its *only* the interpreter
[22:45:47] <robin_sz> noting else
[22:45:51] <alex_joni> right
[22:46:07] <SWPadnos> won-ton-dows
[22:46:12] <robin_sz> the rest has been written from scratch ...
[22:46:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't feel like hitting the gym. :/
[22:46:24] <A-L-P-H-A> screw it... I'll just go fat instead.
[22:46:29] <robin_sz> heh :)
[22:46:40] <alex_joni> lol
[22:46:44] <alex_joni> that's the attitude
[22:46:50] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: you want a copy of the GUI to see what it does?
[22:46:51] <alex_joni> I played 2h of tenis tonight
[22:46:57] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, yeah, that'd be cool.
[22:46:58] <alex_joni> but I feel tired now ;)
[22:47:11] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: windows or linux?
[22:47:29] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, I usually work out, and the stress on my muscles is felt 48 hrs later.
[22:47:34] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz. win on this machine.
[22:48:01] <robin_sz> ok, this is one I started modding for plasma, but you'll get the idea
[22:49:26] <robin_sz> sent in /msg .. the server is a bit bandwidth short this week ...
[22:49:46] <robin_sz> every bot on the channel will grab it otherwise ...
[22:49:58] <robin_sz> and boy are there a lot of bots!
[22:50:14] <SWPadnos> heh - I was just looking at the transfer logs for my BDI mirror - just about 1GB per day
[22:50:26] <alex_joni> heh ;)
[22:50:44] <SWPadnos> luckily I get around 6 GB/day before I have to pay extra :)
[22:50:47] <A-L-P-H-A> seriously, are ther TAHT many people running emc? like where are they all?
[22:51:04] <SWPadnos> probably just people testing their download speed :)
[22:51:49] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: about 50-60 of sherline users / month
[22:51:50] <alex_joni> I mean new users
[22:51:58] <alex_joni> so there should be a few around
[22:52:05] <alex_joni> greetings paul_c
[22:52:26] <paul_c> You've been busy
[22:52:57] <alex_joni> cleaning up some mess ;)
[22:53:12] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hands alex_joni a bucket and mop
[22:53:23] <alex_joni> robin_sz: too late :P
[22:53:24] <SWPadnos> and a gas mask
[22:53:24] <paul_c> nothing of my doing.
[22:53:36] <alex_joni> u sure ? *g*
[22:53:50] <alex_joni> somebody changed INIFILE to Inifile ;)
[22:54:01] <robin_sz> ick
[22:54:04] <paul_c> quite sure - I've been committing on a branch.
[22:54:43] <alex_joni> Update of /cvsroot/emc/emc2/src/libnml/inifile
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> In directory sc8-pr-cvs1.sourceforge.net:/tmp/cvs-serv29067
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> Modified Files:
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> inifile.cc inifile.hh
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> Log Message:
[22:54:47] <alex_joni> Add a write() function - This will be used to dump the contents of an ini file back to disk if/when it is altered.
[22:54:57] <alex_joni> guess it slipped out of the branch into HEAD
[22:55:04] <robin_sz> alex_joni: surely that should have been EMC_INIFILE ;)
[22:55:30] <alex_joni> nah.. it's a EMCINI_INIFILE_CLASS_TYPE INIFILE
[22:55:40] <robin_sz> ah yes, silly me ;)
[22:55:51] <alex_joni> anyways.. not that important
[22:56:10] <SWPadnos> (but only on Windows)
[22:56:31] <robin_sz> of course .. a few #ifdefs :)
[22:56:32] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: probably derived from EMC_INI_FILE_CLASS_TYPE_DEFINITION_DECLARATION_PARAMETER
[22:56:42] <SWPadnos> right - of course
[22:57:29] <robin_sz> except it wouldnt actually inherit from it ... it would just have a name like it ... actual inheritance would have been avoided :)
[22:57:54] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I just read some interesting stuff today
[22:58:05] <alex_joni> would have been great to have in EMC
[22:58:22] <alex_joni> I read that it's possible to define struct's in C that resemble a class in C++
[22:58:32] <alex_joni> and call c++ class methods that way
[22:58:40] <robin_sz> yeuww.
[22:58:51] <robin_sz> you mean we don't have that already?
[22:59:06] <robin_sz> damn, missed a trick there ;)
[22:59:17] <alex_joni> robin_sz: we almost would have had that ;)
[22:59:25] <alex_joni> I thought about it today :P
[22:59:29] <alex_joni> but I skipped it ;)
[22:59:30] <robin_sz> heh,
[22:59:34] <alex_joni> that's way too nasty
[22:59:34] <robin_sz> good.
[22:59:38] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, I think it's kind of the other way around - you can declare structs in C++ that are similar to classes in C++
[22:59:52] <robin_sz> too nasty for EMC? ... wow, now theres a concept
[22:59:57] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: you can inherit structs into classes in C++
[23:00:24] <SWPadnos> yes - actually, classes are almost the same as structs (structs can have member functions)
[23:00:32] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[23:00:42] <SWPadnos> Novell DOS - why? :)
[23:01:06] <robin_sz> oops, seems our playful coding funnery has triggered a paul_c departure ..
[23:01:11] <robin_sz> again.
[23:01:42] <SWPadnos> bummer
[23:01:54] <alex_joni> well.. it triggered a alex_joni departure too ;)
[23:02:00] <alex_joni> but not the funnery ;)
[23:02:04] <alex_joni> the late hours
[23:02:06] <alex_joni> night
[23:02:19] <robin_sz> heh .. droppign like flies
[23:02:35] <robin_sz> * robin_sz drops his flies
[23:02:36] <SWPadnos> indeed
[23:02:41] <SWPadnos> too much information
[23:03:12] <SWPadnos> thanks, Martin
[23:04:21] <robin_sz> wonder where A-L-P-H-A got to?
[23:04:35] <SWPadnos> Toronto?
[23:04:43] <A-L-P-H-A> still here
[23:04:44] <robin_sz> YYZ ...
[23:04:49] <A-L-P-H-A> debating with myself to go to the gym
[23:05:01] <robin_sz> got the d/l OK?
[23:05:11] <A-L-P-H-A> no. still no here.
[23:05:16] <A-L-P-H-A> was it a zip? or exe? or rar?
[23:05:24] <A-L-P-H-A> exe's get stripped automatically
[23:05:24] <robin_sz> you read the /msg
[23:05:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't get a msg.
[23:06:11] <robin_sz> well, there it is again
[23:06:28] <A-L-P-H-A> still nothing. seriously.
[23:06:50] <robin_sz> http://www.quacky.co.uk/~robin/g2002.exe
[23:06:54] <robin_sz> just grab that ..
[23:07:00] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[23:07:09] <A-L-P-H-A> quacky? like duck?
[23:07:12] <robin_sz> server is on limited bandwidth
[23:07:16] <robin_sz> yeah like a duck
[23:07:31] <robin_sz> it has a yellow duck on the front
[23:07:46] <robin_sz> http://www.quacky.co.uk/
[23:07:50] <robin_sz> see .. ducks.
[23:07:58] <A-L-P-H-A> did you get my other message?
[23:08:01] <Jymmm> I see dead people
[23:08:02] <robin_sz> yes
[23:08:09] <robin_sz> and I replied ..
[23:08:13] <A-L-P-H-A> strange how I can't see yours.
[23:08:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I get nothing.
[23:08:24] <robin_sz> weird
[23:08:39] <A-L-P-H-A> gonna make some dinner, and be fat, lazy, and on my ass... isntead in the gym.
[23:08:50] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe if I restart mirc
[23:09:07] <robin_sz> http://www.yellowduck.co.uk/sqwebmail?index=1
[23:09:12] <robin_sz> see ... more ducks
[23:09:31] <robin_sz> we liek ducks
[23:10:15] <A-L-P-H-A> try sending me something now?
[23:10:22] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz are you a registered used on freenode?
[23:10:46] <A-L-P-H-A> who's a registered user, could you send me a /msg?
[23:10:54] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab. need food.
[23:11:22] <SWPadnos> I can, I think
[23:12:39] <SWPadnos> there - finally it worke
[23:12:41] <SWPadnos> d
[23:14:01] <Imperator_> SWPadnos: if you have any suggestions about the boards, let me know
[23:14:27] <SWPadnos> OK - I'll have to get used to Eagle - it doesn't work as I expect it to :)
[23:14:41] <SWPadnos> also, I can't move components with the "light" version :(
[23:14:50] <SWPadnos> the board is too big, I suspect
[23:15:57] <SWPadnos> yep - it's 100x100, the limit is 80x100 for this version, I think
[23:19:22] <Imperator_> jep
[23:19:49] <Imperator_> you can only work in the 80x100 window
[23:19:55] <SWPadnos> argh - I'm used to CAD programs that allow single-key shortcuts, but Eagle doesn't, because of the command line interface
[23:20:23] <SWPadnos> like Z for zoom, or M for move (basically fast menu access)
[23:20:42] <Imperator_> there is something to put the shortcuts on the F-Keys
[23:21:03] <SWPadnos> yeah - I guess I have to read the manual :(
[23:21:19] <Jymmm> This is too weird... HDD a boot np, if I replace with hdd-B I get a 'Press F1 to continue' upon cold boot or power up. Doesn't matter which sequence either and always pauses in this hdd abd the mobo detect the change too. argh!
[23:21:23] <Imperator_> I also don't use it
[23:22:27] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I'm surprised that there's no import function in Eagle - it should at least load gerber files
[23:23:28] <SWPadnos> and only one document open at a time???
[23:23:38] <SWPadnos> aaarrrrgggghhhh!!!
[23:24:14] <SWPadnos> I guess the real versions allow more than one document at once
[23:24:53] <Imperator_> Eagle is a great tool for drawing PCBs. And the good thing is that they keept this feature over the time. All other programs got big unuseable software
[23:25:18] <SWPadnos> I'll give it a little more time, but I'm not very impressed yet ;)
[23:25:20] <Imperator_> nope, only one PCB can be openend
[23:25:49] <SWPadnos> I like the ability to copy a block from one board (or schematic) to another
[23:28:00] <Imperator_> shortcuts can be defined with ASSIGN
[23:28:30] <SWPadnos> I see that - I'm just playing with it now (made <CTRL-R> "route")
[23:30:15] <SWPadnos> kind of surprising that the "move" and "route" functions have no shortcuts by default
[23:30:32] <SWPadnos> ah - F7 for move
[23:30:50] <Imperator_> protel is of cause a much more professionel tool, but only for making a PCB eagle is perfect
[23:31:25] <SWPadnos> heh - you're just hearing the frustration of using the software for the first half hour - it'll get better :)
[23:31:36] <Imperator_> a friend is using a real big tool for PCBs but he whiches he is allowed to use eagle for the prototypes
[23:32:11] <Imperator_> jep
[23:32:24] <SWPadnos> I'll need to look at the DRC checks and ECO-related stuff before I can buy it, but the demo may be fine for non-profit stuff
[23:34:56] <Imperator_> what is ECO ?
[23:36:29] <SWPadnos> Engineering Change Order
[23:37:26] <SWPadnos> add a part on a new board revision - does the system let you update the schematic from the PCB, etc.
[23:37:56] <SWPadnos> or - add a part on the schematic - how does it get added to the PCB?
[23:39:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I got SWPadnos's message...
[23:39:46] <A-L-P-H-A> no one else?
[23:40:06] <SWPadnos> I guess you need to make a donation to send private messages :)
[23:46:56] <Jymmm> wth?
[23:52:06] <Jymmm> wheres the bdi 4.2 download?
[23:52:08] <robin_sz> protel is nice if you have any code (such as cdplds, fpgas, gals etc) to mix in as it handles it al in one lump
[23:52:38] <robin_sz> eagle doesnt do any of that .. its purely a schematic and layout tool
[23:52:56] <robin_sz> PCI stuff in protel is a snap
[23:53:06] <SWPadnos> well - that would be a *recent* version of Protel, which I don't have ;)
[23:53:17] <robin_sz> DXP ...
[23:53:25] <SWPadnos> I'm using Protel for Windows (like version 3.xx)
[23:53:30] <robin_sz> ahh.
[23:53:37] <SWPadnos> DXP would be great, but it's around $14000 over my budget
[23:53:51] <robin_sz> someone, err, showed me a copy of dxp that errm .. well,
[23:53:57] <SWPadnos> I saw a *very* impressive demo of it at ESC though
[23:54:32] <SWPadnos> they had an FPGA design that they retargeted from Altera to Xilinx in about 2 minutes
[23:54:42] <SWPadnos> that was running on actual hardware
[23:54:53] <robin_sz> wow
[23:55:15] <SWPadnos> they have an FPGA design system that's pretty damned impressive
[23:55:47] <SWPadnos> integrated schematic -> PCB -> FPGA, reassigning functions from FPGA to discretes or microcontrollers - pretty amazing
[23:55:51] <robin_sz> win ide for Xilinx is pretty impressive
[23:56:16] <SWPadnos> I haven't used that one yet - I have set up the Altera NIOS kit, complete with gcc for the embedded processor
[23:56:36] <SWPadnos> and of course the embedded Linux
[23:57:00] <SWPadnos> (though I may not have used that yet - can't remeber - it's been a while)