#emc | Logs for 2005-06-18

[00:00:16] <jacky^> 4000 kw co2
[00:00:32] <robin_sz> wow .. trumpf probably
[00:00:50] <robin_sz> could be very fast ...
[00:00:58] <robin_sz> 20m a minute 30m ...
[00:01:11] <jacky^> robin_sz: on this page: http://www.cuttingedgecnc.com/movies.htm
[00:01:20] <jacky^> scroll the page at end
[00:01:34] <jacky^> it's the only video of laser cutter i found
[00:01:52] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:01:58] <robin_sz> windows only sadly ...
[00:02:10] <jacky^> :)
[00:02:24] <robin_sz> but I can guess what it does
[00:02:37] <jacky^> nice
[00:02:56] <robin_sz> mine isnt quite that quick
[00:03:03] <jacky^> it's very fast cutter machine
[00:03:08] <robin_sz> 84m/minute rapids
[00:03:22] <robin_sz> 10m/minute cutting
[00:03:44] <jacky^> wow
[00:04:17] <jacky^> that are monsters, not machine ..
[00:04:35] <robin_sz> you need to be sure not to stand inthe way when it moves
[00:05:28] <jacky^> great
[00:06:41] <jacky^> i was thinking , in the next future, is someone will invent a colt laser with the same power... will be terrible :\
[00:07:13] <robin_sz> you dont hink thye have already?
[00:07:25] <jacky^> nope, sure
[00:07:45] <jacky^> the problem will be the ps :)
[00:07:55] <robin_sz> really?
[00:08:07] <jacky^> i suppose..
[00:08:07] <robin_sz> youve seen the tanks fitted with lasers?
[00:08:11] <robin_sz> battlfield lasers?
[00:08:30] <jacky^> only in the videogames
[00:08:35] <jacky^> :)
[00:09:03] <robin_sz> they carry around 4 tonnes of fuel, and burn it up in around 20 shots
[00:09:13] <jacky^> :\
[00:09:47] <robin_sz> they can melt a tank, or several people at a great distance ...
[00:10:08] <jacky^> ghghg :(
[00:11:10] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/lasers/1600W_CO2_laser_head.jpg
[00:12:29] <jacky^> uahh !
[00:13:10] <robin_sz> nice huh?
[00:13:21] <jacky^> hehe yeah
[00:13:27] <jacky^> O_O
[00:13:51] <jacky^> never seen things like this :\
[00:14:03] <robin_sz> really?
[00:14:07] <jacky^> too big
[00:14:11] <robin_sz> doesnt everyone have one of these?
[00:14:18] <jacky^> i was thinking a little machine ..
[00:14:24] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/lasers/25kw_RF_power_source.jpg
[00:14:32] <robin_sz> a small power supply fo it ;)
[00:14:53] <jacky^> mme..
[00:15:09] <robin_sz> the 7KV txfmr is bottom left.
[00:15:22] <jacky^> incredible
[00:15:59] <jacky^> it seem to me a nuclear station, not a power supply
[00:16:07] <robin_sz> heh
[00:16:14] <jacky^> :)
[00:16:33] <jacky^> cool
[00:16:38] <robin_sz> now .... when the laser beam hits someting .. thats nuclear :)
[00:16:50] <robin_sz> even seen a glass window just melt?
[00:16:56] <jacky^> nope
[00:18:29] <robin_sz> strangley, you do not need any license to won one or use one
[00:18:48] <robin_sz> won? .. own.
[00:19:27] <jacky^> i've not idea about wath you're talking
[00:19:38] <robin_sz> to own a laser
[00:19:43] <robin_sz> or to use a laser
[00:19:52] <robin_sz> you do not need to have a permit
[00:19:55] <jacky^> mmhhh .. no
[00:20:19] <robin_sz> anyone can have one ... no permit
[00:20:27] <jacky^> strange
[00:20:43] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:20:53] <jacky^> it sound to me as very dangerous..
[00:20:56] <robin_sz> wait until I fit my automatic plane tracking radar :)
[00:21:16] <jacky^> *_*
[00:21:49] <jacky^> you can shot the moon :\
[00:22:48] <robin_sz> or the neighbours fog
[00:22:56] <robin_sz> fog?
[00:22:58] <jacky^> hehe
[00:22:58] <robin_sz> DOG!
[00:23:20] <robin_sz> zap .. no more dog.
[00:23:32] <jacky^> robin_sz: wich country ?
[00:23:42] <robin_sz> UK
[00:23:51] <jacky^> nice
[00:24:15] <jacky^> this rule is valid for all the world ?
[00:24:24] <robin_sz> as far as I know
[00:24:36] <jacky^> mmmhh
[00:26:32] <jacky^> i posted the link of hecktor.ch in a roboitalia forum , they all are surprised :)
[00:27:23] <robin_sz> no such domain
[00:27:31] <jacky^> what ?
[00:27:48] <robin_sz> hecktor.ch not exist
[00:28:32] <jacky^> sorry..
[00:28:46] <jacky^> http://www.hektor.ch
[00:29:50] <robin_sz> ah yes
[00:30:05] <jacky^> nice video
[00:31:39] <jacky^> seem there are not many information about the sw they're using
[00:33:57] <jacky^> maybe they want to get patents on their project..
[00:38:12] <robin_sz> been done before
[00:38:49] <jacky^> maybe
[00:39:13] <robin_sz> no it has ...
[00:39:21] <jacky^> ah !
[00:39:24] <robin_sz> not with wires like that though
[00:39:33] <robin_sz> but a long carriage
[00:39:39] <jacky^> mmm ok.
[00:40:22] <robin_sz> http://www.pixation.com/
[00:40:27] <jacky^> so, it's not a big idea at the end..
[00:41:01] <jacky^> yeah, seen
[00:41:32] <jacky^> beautiful
[00:42:31] <jacky^> robin_sz: how many time this machine exist ?
[00:42:37] <jacky^> you know ?
[00:45:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is going berzerk soon
[00:45:29] <anonimasu> The fucking plc manufacturer cant reproduce the damn bug.
[00:45:42] <anonimasu> %�!
[00:45:49] <jacky^> anonimasu: :)
[00:46:18] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sigls
[00:46:31] <anonimasu> they will pay.
[00:46:46] <jacky^> right
[00:47:07] <jacky^> i agree with you
[00:47:27] <anonimasu> the thing is that I've been away today, and they dropped a mail saying they cant reproduce the problem
[00:47:35] <anonimasu> it's friday.
[00:47:54] <jacky^> mmhh
[00:48:20] <jacky^> tomorrow and sunday they don't work i suppose..
[00:48:33] <anonimasu> exactly
[00:48:43] <robin_sz> so try again tueday
[00:49:04] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's way too late.
[00:50:21] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it should have been fixed last week...
[00:50:30] <robin_sz> oh
[00:50:33] <robin_sz> welll /..
[00:50:43] <robin_sz> it might be fixed in 2 weeks then
[00:50:53] <anonimasu> oh, in 2 weeks my customers will kill me.
[00:51:00] <robin_sz> so ..
[00:51:02] <robin_sz> either:
[00:51:05] <robin_sz> woprk around it
[00:51:10] <robin_sz> use different PLC
[00:51:38] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the trouble is that the plc's I have are the ones I should have
[00:51:50] <anonimasu> robin_sz: battery backup is not a option..
[00:53:06] <anonimasu> theese ones have flash for the program and sram with a cap to keep the power to the memory..
[00:53:18] <robin_sz> and?
[00:53:42] <anonimasu> the battery backup ones store the program in battery backed up memory
[00:53:59] <anonimasu> robin_sz: and that is not a good thing since batteries wear out
[00:54:05] <robin_sz> does the cap lose charge too quickly?
[00:54:43] <robin_sz> so .. whats the problem?
[00:55:03] <anonimasu> they do loose the contrnets of the sram
[00:55:10] <anonimasu> ie all machine parameters
[00:55:27] <robin_sz> lose
[00:56:03] <anonimasu> that means a 300km trip for me
[00:57:42] <anonimasu> and trouble for the customers, since they lose the parameters they've set/adjsted
[00:58:01] <anonimasu> the problem got better with a capacitor and a diode on the cpu module power.
[00:58:15] <anonimasu> although the problem should _NEVER_ occur at all.
[01:00:31] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:00:36] <robin_sz> shold be written to flash
[01:00:42] <robin_sz> reloaded on PLC start
[01:00:47] <anonimasu> hm, no the sram should be left, in place..
[01:00:55] <anonimasu> the flash is for the program memory..
[01:01:07] <robin_sz> but you dont have sram
[01:01:09] <robin_sz> ??
[01:02:39] <anonimasu> yes plenty
[01:02:50] <anonimasu> 1,9mb flash
[01:03:03] <anonimasu> 8kb sram with backup
[01:03:17] <anonimasu> 768kb of sram without backup
[01:03:23] <anonimasu> ie runtime allocated memory..
[01:04:07] <robin_sz> the parameters are always changing?
[01:04:16] <jacky^> night guys, see you tomorrow
[01:04:20] <robin_sz> night ...
[01:04:20] <anonimasu> yes some of them
[01:04:22] <robin_sz> right
[01:04:29] <robin_sz> so flash is not good for them
[01:04:45] <anonimasu> exactly, although the flash would probably hold up..
[01:04:53] <robin_sz> probably
[01:05:03] <anonimasu> the values/flow limits isnt changing
[01:05:06] <robin_sz> 100K writes ...
[01:05:15] <anonimasu> the non user accessible ones
[01:05:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[01:05:27] <anonimasu> maybe more I dont know what kind of memory they use
[01:06:08] <robin_sz> even the user -settable ones could be in flash
[01:06:26] <anonimasu> hm maybe
[01:06:32] <robin_sz> its only things like postion that need to be in sram
[01:06:32] <anonimasu> but that requires writing to flash..
[01:06:37] <robin_sz> and?
[01:07:03] <robin_sz> code cannot write to flash?
[01:07:40] <anonimasu> code can write to flash.. although the sram is way better.
[01:07:54] <anonimasu> besides when do you write/read from flash..
[01:08:11] <anonimasu> it adds a load of mess..
[01:12:41] <robin_sz> ok
[01:12:45] <robin_sz> right .. bedtime
[01:12:48] <robin_sz> cya!
[02:17:29] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[03:05:34] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_Away, how do I setup a PWM on an atmel 90s2313? Say I want TTL in, giving it a duty cycle ( a word, or a doubel word), and it outputs the cycle accordingly. so $0000 would be 0%, while $ffff would be 100%.
[03:06:06] <Jymmm> /256
[03:08:54] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, that's X/(256^2)
[03:09:06] <A-L-P-H-A> x/65536
[03:09:24] <Jymmm> I didn't know a 2313 could do that.
[03:09:51] <A-L-P-H-A> it can, but not natively... requires for bitgolf math
[03:09:57] <A-L-P-H-A> for=some
[03:10:55] <Jymmm> there's only so much room available now.
[03:11:13] <A-L-P-H-A> what do you mean?
[03:11:22] <A-L-P-H-A> there's a ton of room on an at90s2313
[03:11:26] <Jymmm> isn't 2313 4K
[03:11:31] <A-L-P-H-A> 2k, 128bytes ram.
[03:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> this should only be like a 15line app.
[03:12:06] <Jymmm> ok
[05:34:08] <LawrenceG> where is rayh when I need him.... anyone know much about tcl and the mini.tcl display under emc2?
[05:34:36] <LawrenceG> I am trying to figure out why the axis display is not rendered in the right size font...
[05:35:42] <LawrenceG> all the hard core guys are on the way to the cncfest .... should be fun
[05:48:03] <LawrenceG> good night all
[07:27:57] <A-L-P-H-A> boo
[07:28:12] <Jymmm> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek
[07:39:05] <ValarQ> "eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek"?
[07:39:31] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A scared me when he said boo
[07:40:47] <ValarQ> oh
[07:40:50] <Jymmm> and on that note... G'Night Folks!
[07:41:00] <ValarQ> morning :)
[07:47:05] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[07:48:40] <asdfqwega> Imagine this: trying to make 2", 4096-count encoders wheels...
[07:48:55] <asdfqwega> On a rotary table and vertical mill
[07:49:13] <asdfqwega> Do the math...you'll laugh just as hard as I did
[07:58:34] <A-L-P-H-A> 4096 count... 8192 bands of 0/1. 4096 triggers = 8192 bands.
[07:58:53] <A-L-P-H-A> so need to have a resolution of at least 8192 steps to make it happen.
[07:59:04] <A-L-P-H-A> 2x2"xPi =
[07:59:26] <A-L-P-H-A> 12.566370614359172953850573533118 " on the OD edge.
[07:59:55] <asdfqwega> Actually, it would be 2*pi
[08:00:06] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[08:00:26] <asdfqwega> ratio of C to D, right?
[08:00:33] <A-L-P-H-A> 7.6699039394282061485904379474597e-4" spacing for each band. That is if each band is equally spaced.
[08:00:39] <A-L-P-H-A> R to D.
[08:00:57] <A-L-P-H-A> btw, that's pretty small.
[08:00:59] <asdfqwega> No, circumfirence to diameter
[08:01:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I was referring to 2R = 1D
[08:01:23] <asdfqwega> Oh
[08:02:12] <A-L-P-H-A> 0.087890625 degrees between centers for each band.
[08:03:43] <asdfqwega> And an impossibly small feature size
[08:14:44] <fenn> asdfqwega: why are you trying to make such fancy encoders?
[08:16:00] <jacky^> morning
[08:16:08] <fenn> heh didn't you just leave
[08:16:42] <jacky^> hi fenn
[08:17:10] <asdfqwega> fenn: actually, it's something someone wants me to make
[08:17:39] <fenn> sounds like a photo-etching project to me
[08:19:00] <asdfqwega> fenn: but not inexpensively!
[08:20:21] <fenn> your rotary table probably wouldn't have been accurate enough anyway, even if you could engrave the lines
[08:30:25] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn's right
[08:30:31] <A-L-P-H-A> photo-etching project.
[08:30:47] <A-L-P-H-A> Or... if you're able... make it so that it's double sided.
[08:31:09] <A-L-P-H-A> you can enhance the resolution that way. But it's probably just better off going on ebay to buy a $20 encoder.
[08:36:10] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26261&item=5589353153&rd=1 <-- 7406 lines of resolution
[08:43:57] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega hopes Phydbleep is paying attention to that link
[08:45:17] <anonimasu_> good morning
[08:46:10] <A-L-P-H-A> morn
[08:46:57] <anonimasu_> how's things going?
[08:48:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I actually don't know.
[08:49:14] <A-L-P-H-A> it's my birthday, and I don't have any emotions right now.
[08:49:24] <anonimasu_> opk
[08:49:24] <A-L-P-H-A> it's more ... _I'm hungry_
[08:49:24] <anonimasu_> :)
[08:49:29] <anonimasu_> that's pretty common
[08:49:46] <anonimasu_> going to do any machining today?
[08:49:47] <Phydbleep> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=97184&item=7523095418&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[08:49:56] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, hunger. I get hungry every day... that's when I know it's time to eat
[08:50:23] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: Yeah, I was paying attention to the link..
[08:50:24] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, that isn't bad.
[08:50:39] <A-L-P-H-A> why? anonimasu, were you gonna make if for Phydbleep?
[08:50:51] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Try 'horny' occaisionally.. It's really fun. :)
[08:50:53] <anonimasu_> what?
[08:51:08] <anonimasu_> oh, I have interfaces like that ;)
[08:51:08] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, I don't think I'm gonna machine anything today
[08:51:24] <anonimasu_> ok
[08:51:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is waiting for 21:00 GMT..
[08:51:55] <anonimasu_> howcome?
[08:51:58] <anonimasu_> going to buy it?
[08:51:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep. horny is what broke up my last relationship. she got tired of multiples... and felt that the relationship was just physical.
[08:52:07] <Phydbleep> Today is the last Dr. Who of the new season. :\
[08:52:15] <anonimasu_> ah ok
[08:52:27] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep. yes. yes it is.
[08:52:32] <A-L-P-H-A> but there will be a christmas special!
[08:52:50] <A-L-P-H-A> second season will start, and a 3rd season is announced as well
[08:53:04] <Phydbleep> And seasons 2/3 are confirmed. :)
[08:53:25] <A-L-P-H-A> bravo. type that after i've already annouced that.
[08:53:33] <A-L-P-H-A> good summary! :)
[08:53:41] <Phydbleep> Too bad.. CE has been doing a ripping job as the Dr. :)
[08:53:51] <A-L-P-H-A> in 3weeks time, Stargate Atlantis, and SG-1 will be back!
[08:53:59] <A-L-P-H-A> cE is whome?
[08:54:18] <Phydbleep> Christopher Eccleston.
[08:54:28] <A-L-P-H-A> ooh
[08:54:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought Ce was another show, doing a rip off of Dr. Who.
[08:54:54] <Phydbleep> And I don't care how badly I mangled the spelling..
[08:55:14] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is suffering from 'plumbers hangover'..
[08:56:05] <asdfqwega> Phydbleep: inhalation of too much lead solder?
[08:56:45] <Phydbleep> Dont you just hate it when you've got optical spots from running a torch and cant see directly in front of you?
[08:58:03] <asdfqwega> I haven't had that problem since I bought a auto-darkening welding shield
[08:58:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep. MASK.
[08:58:28] <A-L-P-H-A> my auto darkening welding shield is BUST!
[08:58:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm like wtf.
[08:58:48] <Phydbleep> Propane torch.. no O2 feed so there's not enough light to trigger mine.
[08:58:49] <asdfqwega> check the batteries
[08:59:40] <A-L-P-H-A> it's solar
[08:59:58] <A-L-P-H-A> wtf is mykow/
[09:00:11] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: There's still a set of batteries and a switch if it's a harbor fright unit.
[09:02:03] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46092 <-- it's this helmet
[09:02:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll tinker at it, to see
[09:03:05] <A-L-P-H-A> wow. I just cleared up 20 gigs of space!
[09:03:11] <A-L-P-H-A> horray for DVD backups!
[09:03:24] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Yeah, Look for a rectangular battery door on the inside.. Mine like that takes a pair of AAA's as well.
[09:03:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I need some freak'n food
[09:03:35] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[09:03:43] <asdfqwega> I invented eating, you know
[09:03:57] <asdfqwega> Single-handedly wiped out starvation
[09:04:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got some italian suasages... I'll grill them, and have them on a bun.
[09:04:10] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[09:04:11] <Phydbleep> John Cleese on our 'new' goverment... http://www.rense.com/general66/unit.htm
[09:04:21] <A-L-P-H-A> with some pickled cabbage.
[09:05:02] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is glad that A-L-P-H-A is well downwind..
[09:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> that is a funny funny read.
[09:08:06] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I'd give your left-nut to hear him read it..
[09:09:33] <Phydbleep> You know that has to land somewhere between 'dead parrot' and the Latin lesson from 'Life of Brian'.. :)
[09:10:08] <A-L-P-H-A> You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game. The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football. You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game.
[09:10:11] <A-L-P-H-A> hahhahhahahhaha
[09:10:13] <A-L-P-H-A> LOL
[09:10:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I love the last 2 sentences
[09:11:06] <Phydbleep> I like 10-12 and 14... :)
[09:12:19] <Phydbleep> 14 You will learn to resolve personal issues without using guns, lawyers or therapists. The fact that you need so many lawyers and therapists shows that you're not adult enough to be independent. Guns should only be handled by adults. If you're not adult enough to sort things out without suing someone or speaking to a therapist then you're not grown up enough to handle a gun.
[09:12:20] <A-L-P-H-A> At the same time, you will go metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.
[09:24:57] <anonimasu_> :)
[09:25:25] <anonimasu_> hm, metric is best
[09:25:37] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[09:25:42] <jacky^> hi A-L-P-H-A ,anonimasu_ , Phydbleep :)
[09:25:57] <anonimasu_> hey jacky^
[09:25:57] <asdfqwega> ...and monkeys will fly out of my butt.
[09:26:11] <jacky^> hi asdfqwega
[09:26:25] <asdfqwega> Uh...hi.
[09:30:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep Fed-Ex's asdfqwega a bag of Monkey-Chow..
[09:30:44] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: You'll need to feed them till then. :)
[09:30:49] <Phydbleep> Hi jacky^ :)
[09:31:35] <jacky^> hey Phydbleep :D
[09:32:48] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: And just where do you buy 'Rectal Dwelling Flying Monkees"?
[09:33:33] <asdfqwega> The same pet store you get the pigs that fly of La Guardia in tight formation :)
[09:33:46] <asdfqwega> s/of/over
[09:40:36] <anonimasu_> *yawns*
[09:55:05] <A-L-P-H-A> quick, EVERYONE RUN!
[09:55:07] <A-L-P-H-A> aj's back
[09:55:10] <alex_joni> good morning
[09:55:27] <alex_joni> hey A-L-P-H-A
[09:55:35] <alex_joni> too late
[09:55:36] <alex_joni> :P
[09:57:25] <alex_joni> what's up?
[09:58:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep remembers a line from a bad comedy bit...
[09:58:24] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: We aint.. Got any more loco-weed?
[09:58:54] <alex_joni> just mowed some
[10:00:20] <A-L-P-H-A> umm.
[10:00:33] <A-L-P-H-A> A-L-P-H-A is now known as A-L-P-H-A_happy_
[10:00:44] <A-L-P-H-A_happy_> A-L-P-H-A_happy_ is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[10:00:56] <A-L-P-H-A> damn it
[10:01:09] <alex_joni> wha'?
[10:01:13] <A-L-P-H-A> My bday today!
[10:01:31] <alex_joni> happy b-day
[10:01:43] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: getting old eh?
[10:01:44] <A-L-P-H-A> thankyou!
[10:01:48] <A-L-P-H-A> Hell yeah!
[10:01:49] <A-L-P-H-A> 26!
[10:01:53] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Well, "Crappy Birthday!" is you're going to bitch about it.
[10:01:58] <A-L-P-H-A> going clubbing with a bunch of friends! :D
[10:01:59] <Phydbleep> s/is/if
[10:02:18] <A-L-P-H-A> could of girls, and some good friends. Always a good time.
[10:02:45] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: that's a bit old;)
[10:02:48] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: So how many baby seals did you get?
[10:02:54] <alex_joni> ahhh... damn
[10:02:58] <alex_joni> sun just got out
[10:03:04] <alex_joni> * alex_joni can't see no more
[10:03:22] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Sunrise?
[10:03:22] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep... :) it's not season... gotta wait till winter.
[10:03:27] <A-L-P-H-A> need the nice white coats.
[10:03:45] <A-L-P-H-A> and gotta wash the damn pups right afterwards, so theydon't stain themselves.
[10:04:02] <A-L-P-H-A> unless you get them on the head, and then hang them upside down.
[10:04:56] <A-L-P-H-A> it's blue skys here, but everything is still dark.
[10:05:02] <A-L-P-H-A> the world must have just stopped rotating.
[10:07:35] <alex_joni> I'm outside with my laptop
[10:07:43] <alex_joni> and it was pretty ok, a bit cloudy
[10:07:53] <alex_joni> now I'm getting roasted in the bright sun
[10:08:22] <Phydbleep> Ah.. It's 09:30 there?
[10:08:34] <alex_joni> [12:36] <Phydbleep> Ah.. It's 09:30 there?
[10:08:45] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: what's wrong with you?
[10:08:56] <alex_joni> who wakes up at 09:30 on a saturday?
[10:09:04] <alex_joni> on a FREE saturday
[10:09:12] <Phydbleep> [03:45] alex_joni Phydbleep: what's wrong with you?
[10:09:24] <alex_joni> ok.. argument taken ;)
[10:09:34] <Phydbleep> ^^ ^^ That's what's wrong with me..
[10:09:38] <fenn> alex_joni: wuss, i got up today at 0:30
[10:10:16] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been running on ~5.5 hours/day of sleep for over a year..
[10:10:33] <fenn> what's your secret?
[10:10:56] <Phydbleep> fenn: I'm really short on 'beauty sleep'?
[10:15:10] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[10:15:32] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: I did
[10:15:42] <anonimasu_> brb, need to go to the pharmacy
[10:15:47] <anonimasu_> ;)
[10:15:49] <Phydbleep> And now for something completely different.. A man who knows how to play with his balls in public...
[10:15:56] <Phydbleep> http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/oa/*http://uk.download.yahoo.com/pr/fu/oa/pianowithballs.wmv
[10:19:25] <alex_joni> now there's no more sun
[10:19:29] <alex_joni> but it starts to rain :((
[10:22:29] <alex_joni> * alex_joni needs a scanner
[10:22:41] <alex_joni> fast, good, and ok for books & dias
[10:22:45] <alex_joni> any ideas?
[10:23:06] <Phydbleep> 5mp camera.
[10:23:52] <fenn> do you wanna do OCR to it afterwards?
[10:24:03] <Phydbleep> 5 megapixel is enough res for ocr.
[10:24:17] <fenn> (distortion from a non-smooshed book will mess up the OCR sometimes)
[10:24:53] <alex_joni> fenn: preferably
[10:24:58] <alex_joni> but I don't want camera
[10:25:02] <alex_joni> I need a scanner
[10:25:09] <alex_joni> maybe with a film adapter
[10:25:14] <Phydbleep> Box, glass top, camera pointed up.. scrap an old copier chassis if you want to get fancy.
[10:25:39] <fenn> hmm phydbleep may be on to something
[10:25:56] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: The camera is 5x faster than the scanner. :)
[10:26:13] <fenn> plus you get a camera
[10:26:51] <Phydbleep> And all the guts from the copier. :)
[10:27:54] <fenn> now you just gotta figure out how to CNC it for lights-out operation, and you're set!
[10:29:30] <alex_joni> nah.. don't like it ;)
[10:29:32] <A-L-P-H-A> wow.
[10:29:34] <Phydbleep> If you want it automated you want a page-turner and camera..
[10:29:38] <alex_joni> not enough light on the camera
[10:29:42] <A-L-P-H-A> that piano with balls was COOL.
[10:29:55] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, spot lights!
[10:30:08] <A-L-P-H-A> just get yourself a scanner.
[10:30:09] <Phydbleep> I told you he knew how to play with his balls in public...
[10:30:20] <A-L-P-H-A> in the americas it's like $40 for a decent one.
[10:31:03] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has 2 flatbed scanners and they're a PITA..
[10:31:46] <Phydbleep> I far prefer just grabbing the wifes kodak DC3(something) and shooting the pages.
[10:31:59] <alex_joni> http://www.logos.com/features/bookscanner like this?
[10:34:12] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: That's > $10K
[10:34:33] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: ;)
[10:35:46] <Phydbleep> Here's an <$50 scanner. :\ http://www.liquidationetc.com/21/15122.htm?346
[10:36:04] <Phydbleep> I hate those damn things.
[10:36:33] <alex_joni> " its 10-megapixel digital camera snaps photos at 600 dots per inch"
[10:40:27] <anonimasu_> eh
[10:40:28] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[10:40:31] <anonimasu_> :)
[10:41:03] <alex_joni> hey anders
[10:41:12] <alex_joni> still fighting PLC's ?
[10:41:21] <anonimasu_> yeah
[10:41:21] <anonimasu_> :/
[10:41:28] <alex_joni> :/
[10:41:38] <anonimasu_> I'll call my dealer at monday and tell them I am very very pissed off at how this has been handled.
[10:41:45] <Phydbleep> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=97184&item=7523095418&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[10:41:59] <Phydbleep> $10 Zoid display head.
[10:42:07] <anonimasu_> Phydbleep: do you have the PLC+
[10:42:07] <anonimasu_> ?
[10:42:40] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: going to go out and machine the mounts for the die grinder and some parts for work
[10:42:47] <anonimasu_> then onto the robot
[10:42:49] <alex_joni> nice
[10:42:53] <Phydbleep> I hope not.. It sounds like something i'd need to see the doctor about.
[10:43:02] <alex_joni> I'm relaxing in the wild
[10:43:09] <anonimasu_> nice
[10:43:17] <anonimasu_> I havent had a customer call today
[10:43:18] <anonimasu_> :D
[10:43:18] <alex_joni> got my laptop & my EVDO connection
[10:43:30] <anonimasu_> either the machine is running or they've given up
[10:43:46] <alex_joni> lol
[10:43:54] <alex_joni> both should work for you :)
[10:43:56] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: And a 100m extension cord?
[10:44:03] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: oh, I hope it's running
[10:44:04] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: what for?
[10:44:16] <alex_joni> Fido: wireless baby
[10:44:24] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Spare batteries?
[10:44:37] <alex_joni> nah.. but 4h should be enough
[10:44:56] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: dont you have power over there?
[10:45:06] <anonimasu_> *throws alex the car-charger
[10:45:10] <alex_joni> not in the back yard
[10:45:13] <anonimasu_> ah ok
[10:45:17] <alex_joni> inside I do..
[10:45:20] <alex_joni> but it's nice outside
[10:45:24] <anonimasu_> well, I'll be back later
[10:45:27] <anonimasu_> making chips
[10:45:32] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: http://www.goodlaughter.com/funnypictures/pics/wireless.jpg
[10:45:35] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Ive got 22V/30A in the backyard.
[10:45:44] <Phydbleep> s/22V/220V
[10:45:56] <anonimasu_> haha
[10:46:01] <anonimasu_> anonimasu_ is now known as ano|gone
[10:46:27] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: I do have an 220V/3A solar cell
[10:46:31] <Phydbleep> Woohoo! Babe in bondage. :)
[10:46:39] <alex_joni> but. that's not nice to carry around
[10:47:07] <fenn> heh one of those pictures is from my school
[10:47:13] <fenn> bathorgy.jpg
[10:49:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni sees fenn
[10:49:19] <alex_joni> front row in the middle
[10:49:28] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes blind..
[10:50:08] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: why?
[10:50:50] <ano|gone> ll
[10:50:54] <ano|gone> lol..
[10:50:54] <ano|gone> :)
[10:51:08] <Phydbleep> Migrane... Torch + fumes + flux on skin + lack of sleep..
[10:51:18] <alex_joni> :(
[10:51:52] <alex_joni> darn.. http://www.goodlaughter.com/funnypictures/pics/behindbooth.jpg
[10:52:35] <Phydbleep> And I can sense the frikken seismic stresses are building again and It'll be another hour before I can get to sleep..
[10:53:06] <fenn> alex_joni: http://www.goodlaughter.com/funnypictures/pics/greatkiss.jpg
[10:53:32] <Phydbleep> Expect another >6.0 quake somewhere between Guatamala and Chile in the next 12 hours.. :(
[10:56:16] <fenn> i need a sign like this: http://www.goodlaughter.com/funnypictures/pics/onlyinaustralia.jpg
[10:58:17] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[10:58:47] <Phydbleep> "If there's a HUGE FSCK-UP, Call Todd" ROFL!
[11:17:53] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be back later
[12:23:54] <fenn> today's catch, fresh from the dumpster: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/camera/DCP_0360.JPG
[12:24:44] <fenn> considering that everything i could have wanted was there, it wasn't a bad deal (1 hour to go get it, take it home, wash it off)
[12:33:14] <les> not bad
[12:34:16] <les> I think I found a servo set on ebay that will work for the paint robot I am making
[12:34:46] <les> 3 brushless servos/encoders....3 amps...100 bucks or so?
[12:35:21] <les> Did a quick inertia match test on motioneering....looks ok
[12:35:47] <les> 24 inch move from stopped in about 0.4 sec
[12:38:43] <robin_sz> meep?
[12:38:58] <fenn> yikes
[12:39:18] <robin_sz> going well?
[12:39:22] <fenn> how much does your robot weigh les?
[12:39:36] <fenn> robin_sz: yeah :)
[12:39:41] <robin_sz> les has a 'bot?
[12:39:49] <fenn> not yet
[12:39:55] <robin_sz> ebayed one?
[12:40:10] <fenn> looks like he's buying parts on ebay
[12:40:18] <robin_sz> he did mention getting an cient puma or someting a while back
[12:40:52] <fenn> i am going to go gorge myself on avocados
[12:40:54] <robin_sz> a puma weighs in around 500lbs
[12:42:23] <les> this is a very light one to paint turkey calls
[12:42:44] <robin_sz> you found an old indutrial bot?
[12:42:48] <robin_sz> or making something?
[12:42:52] <les> just a simple rotation, radius, z
[12:42:59] <les> making (I think)
[12:43:00] <robin_sz> ah, making someting
[12:43:27] <les> I just can't stand the repitition of painting thousands of them
[12:43:35] <les> driving me nuts
[12:43:52] <les> and I cannot find a spray painter here
[12:44:00] <les> so I'm it
[12:44:49] <les> so....put the calls in drying trays....robot picks em up, puts em on turntable
[12:45:01] <les> 2 second spray...
[12:45:15] <robin_sz> robot pickes em up?
[12:45:17] <les> then it pickes it up and puts back on tray
[12:45:34] <robin_sz> sounds like an ideal use for a vacuum cup
[12:45:35] <les> simple enough
[12:45:54] <les> the calls have a through hole in the middle
[12:46:03] <les> so no problem
[12:46:04] <robin_sz> 3 jaw gripper then
[12:46:07] <les> yeah
[12:46:29] <les> I am just going nuts here
[12:46:41] <les> I make a very poor production worker
[12:46:45] <robin_sz> yeah
[12:46:55] <les> can't do repetitive tasks
[12:47:42] <les> with 10,000 calls that is 40,000 pick place and spray operations
[12:47:51] <les> I don't want to do that
[12:48:11] <les> I could hire a pick/place guy
[12:48:22] <les> but it is pretty simple to automate
[12:48:42] <les> robot tubular thomson shaft?
[12:49:03] <les> say 24 inch arm 1.5 diameter?
[12:49:53] <robin_sz> dunno.
[12:50:01] <robin_sz> id conver them ;)
[12:50:07] <les> I did a run in motioneering
[12:50:07] <robin_sz> conveyor
[12:50:26] <les> 0.4 sec for 24" move
[12:50:32] <robin_sz> frames of twenty on a long conveyor line :)
[12:50:58] <robin_sz> see, heres the problem
[12:51:01] <les> well I figure the drying rack idea would be simple
[12:51:07] <robin_sz> how many calls on a tray
[12:51:14] <anonimasu> meep
[12:51:18] <robin_sz> 20?
[12:51:53] <les> let's see...20 or 30 yeah hex close packed
[12:51:57] <robin_sz> right
[12:52:02] <robin_sz> paint cycle time?
[12:52:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[12:52:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is waiting for the mill to get done
[12:52:15] <robin_sz> 10 seconds?
[12:52:25] <anonimasu> I am going to mill my bearing mounts for the robot :)
[12:52:48] <les> 2 seconds to paint...um...let's say 5-10 sec total...that's conservative
[12:52:53] <robin_sz> 'k
[12:53:13] <les> so max 5 min/tray?
[12:53:15] <robin_sz> so every 200 seconds or so .. you need to change trays
[12:53:25] <robin_sz> whatever, yeah 5 mins
[12:53:44] <robin_sz> 5 minutes is nto long enough for you to go and do something else
[12:53:51] <robin_sz> so there you stand .. loading trays
[12:53:58] <les> sander could do that in addition to sanding work
[12:54:25] <robin_sz> do he get to pick the snading dust out of the finish afterwards too?
[12:54:26] <anonimasu> the question is at what level does autoloading become profitable..
[12:54:42] <anonimasu> do you have enough stuff in queue, for the sander to be busy with it?
[12:54:55] <les> sand 4 calls...change tray...sand 4 calls... etc
[12:55:16] <les> does not have to be synchronous
[12:55:19] <anonimasu> brb changing part..
[12:55:40] <les> robot can wait till sander finishes a part right?
[12:56:11] <robin_sz> wont hte sanding guy be dusty?
[12:56:29] <les> not much...vacuum
[12:56:41] <robin_sz> k
[12:57:01] <robin_sz> labor is cheap?
[12:57:02] <anonimasu> done
[12:57:12] <les> I compare that to just having another worker loading trays....
[12:57:33] <les> labor is cheap pbut logistical problems with part time
[12:57:53] <robin_sz> i was just considering whether the robot pick and place was economic
[12:57:57] <les> can't just snap my fingers and have a worker there
[12:58:24] <les> I doubt that it is if a $10 worker is available
[12:58:34] <robin_sz> or whether a automted spray system where a worker puts a fres part on a acrousel and lifts off a sprayed art would work ...
[12:58:46] <les> right
[12:58:47] <anonimasu> I guess it's always economical to hire less people in most cases
[12:58:50] <robin_sz> * robin_sz cant type today
[12:59:08] <robin_sz> usually, yes, unless its a very low skill job
[12:59:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:59:26] <les> super low skill job
[12:59:30] <anonimasu> workers cost, and they whine..
[12:59:32] <robin_sz> anything with a skill level is usually best automted
[12:59:36] <robin_sz> like painting
[12:59:49] <robin_sz> but since the trays have to be loaded, and then moved and then ...
[12:59:50] <anonimasu> and they have sickdays ;)
[12:59:54] <anonimasu> robots does not complain..
[12:59:55] <anonimasu> :D
[13:00:09] <robin_sz> I just wonder if a manual load process onto a painting carousel ...
[13:00:17] <les> I should make the turntable / spray heads/ plc first
[13:00:20] <robin_sz> rotates 1 part every 5 seconds
[13:00:29] <les> start with manual pick/ place
[13:00:32] <robin_sz> yep
[13:00:53] <robin_sz> I doubt the automated pick/place will save any time
[13:01:04] <robin_sz> as the trays have to be loaded by hand in the first place
[13:01:05] <anonimasu> hm, just less labour
[13:01:18] <les> now if I could get more small part powder/ painting work...
[13:01:22] <anonimasu> keep a batch of trays loaded and let the sander sand..
[13:01:29] <les> no it will not save that much time
[13:01:34] <robin_sz> might as well just pick em off the drying racks ..
[13:01:48] <robin_sz> onto a carousel .. throught he pain booth, back to the rack
[13:02:07] <robin_sz> any option on IR blasting them to speed up drying?
[13:02:19] <les> again...if I have a worker there when production is going...
[13:02:35] <les> see that is a real logistical problem out here in the woods
[13:02:41] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[13:02:55] <les> that is the only real reason to consider automation
[13:03:00] <robin_sz> right
[13:03:11] <les> and it is a real problem
[13:03:21] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ndos
[13:03:25] <anonimasu> that sounds reasonable
[13:03:38] <robin_sz> maybe a auto tray changer ... 20 trays in a stack, 600 calls ...
[13:03:41] <les> this is "just in time stuff"
[13:03:52] <robin_sz> leave it on overnight doing multi-coats :)
[13:03:52] <les> for a worker I must hold inventories
[13:04:50] <les> yeah with laquer it is good to spray when previous coat is tacky
[13:05:06] <les> so one tray might be on for several coats
[13:06:14] <robin_sz> it would also be possible to booth the whole process, leaving just a slot for trays in/out .. with an air blast to keep dust out
[13:06:29] <robin_sz> and keeping fumes out of the factory
[13:06:56] <les> well it is in a booth for sure
[13:07:10] <les> but only needs to be small...no worker inside
[13:07:15] <robin_sz> right
[13:07:28] <anonimasu> * anonimasu kicks the PSU
[13:07:33] <anonimasu> damn I need a fan on it..
[13:07:37] <les> cost of heating a big booth in winter is $$$
[13:07:44] <robin_sz> and hell, if it does need a worker inside .. he'd die from fumes anyway
[13:07:51] <anonimasu> haha
[13:07:52] <les> heh yeah
[13:07:53] <anonimasu> robin_sz: good point
[13:07:59] <robin_sz> so that narrows it down to mexicans I guess ;)
[13:08:15] <les> and that worker is me because I cannot find a spray painter
[13:09:02] <robin_sz> if you are really cute, you can automate a swap over to thinners to auto-clean the heads too
[13:09:11] <anonimasu> :D
[13:09:27] <les> well for sure I will start with the carousel thing first
[13:09:32] <anonimasu> how hard would it be to control a robot with emc?
[13:09:39] <anonimasu> can you do the kinematics?
[13:09:43] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:09:53] <anonimasu> and let it take care of the x/y/z positioning?
[13:09:57] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:10:10] <les> it could be done...but I have this 8 axis kmotion board just sitting here
[13:10:11] <robin_sz> probably the same as controlling a mill with emc ;)
[13:10:29] <robin_sz> les: what did you tihnk of the G200X gui?
[13:10:45] <anonimasu> I started building a robot yesterday 0.5 or 4dm of reach
[13:10:52] <anonimasu> err 5dm
[13:10:58] <les> the kmotion does g-code...but it is not to the level of a cnc control
[13:11:15] <les> I am going to talk to them about that though
[13:11:16] <anonimasu> hm ok too bad :/
[13:11:22] <anonimasu> I
[13:11:34] <anonimasu> I'd love to engrave with a small robot
[13:11:42] <anonimasu> or drill odd holes..
[13:11:45] <anonimasu> \
[13:12:07] <les> have to talk to another cnc vendor too...
[13:12:12] <robin_sz> les: what did you tihnk of the G200X gui?
[13:12:25] <les> I here he is making a trip to Shanghai....
[13:12:35] <les> the gui looked ok
[13:12:44] <robin_sz> good
[13:13:54] <les> So...I may be scooped on the china thing for US market....
[13:14:00] <robin_sz> ok
[13:14:08] <robin_sz> well, that was just timing dood.
[13:14:10] <les> but what can I do? I don't have a product...
[13:14:48] <les> So I figure I ought to talk to this guy....
[13:15:07] <les> If he brings em in with mach II it will be a disaster
[13:15:14] <robin_sz> yeah
[13:15:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[13:15:23] <anonimasu> suicide
[13:15:32] <robin_sz> well, you know what I would do already, we did this to death 3 months ago
[13:15:37] <les> yeah
[13:17:12] <les> well the company glentek I was working with....
[13:17:24] <les> just went out of business!!!!
[13:17:36] <les> you know warthog routers...
[13:20:07] <les> anyway here is the guy heading over there....
[13:20:18] <les> http://www.tormach.com/
[13:20:36] <anonimasu> hm I looked at their toolchangers earlier
[13:21:11] <anonimasu> hm, another part running.
[13:21:11] <anonimasu> :D
[13:21:32] <les> It's just one guy
[13:22:01] <les> but I hear he is planning on spending time in Shanhai...
[13:23:05] <anonimasu> ok
[13:26:34] <fenn> well, five avocados later.. there goes my motivation for the day
[13:27:03] <robin_sz> oh ,, HIM
[13:27:09] <robin_sz> hes a bit of a twat actually.
[13:27:28] <les> greg jackson?
[13:27:34] <robin_sz> he re-sells the gecko rip offs
[13:27:41] <les> I hear he's a Prick
[13:28:04] <robin_sz> exchanged a few emails with him .. id agree with that sentiment
[13:28:31] <les> where are the gecko rips coming from?
[13:29:03] <robin_sz> oh, protobyte
[13:29:24] <robin_sz> its a version 3 rip off, quite old, but exact copy of the board, they got some components wrong though
[13:29:28] <robin_sz> so ot doesnt perform
[13:29:38] <robin_sz> they whistle like a kettle :)
[13:30:02] <robin_sz> http://www.protobyte.com/
[13:30:08] <les> You know, in business decisions I think I nit pick and over analyze too much instead of just acting....
[13:30:14] <robin_sz> yep :)
[13:30:25] <robin_sz> and .. miss the boat
[13:30:50] <robin_sz> which I believe just set sail for Shanghai :)
[13:32:08] <fenn> well, i like the guy's philosophy, even if he sells ripoffs
[13:32:26] <les> heh...so this protobyte makea accusations on their site about breach of contract with???
[13:32:35] <les> gecko?
[13:33:27] <robin_sz> not seen any accusations on their site
[13:33:36] <robin_sz> they have no contract with gecko ..
[13:33:43] <les> http://www.protobyte.com/company.htm
[13:33:46] <robin_sz> they just bought a drive and copied it
[13:35:43] <les> Aw I should have someone else making stategic business decisions for me...I should stay in the lab fetting over microns as usual
[13:35:51] <les> fretting
[13:36:47] <les> ...will be with this r&d contract....PO is here on my desk...
[13:36:57] <robin_sz> AFAIK, they just ripped a gecko off and have no ther involvement with Gecko ...
[13:36:59] <les> $20k to write a book report...heh
[13:37:18] <les> I see
[13:37:25] <les> nice guys.
[13:38:04] <les> identical circiut/layout?
[13:38:58] <robin_sz> exactly ...
[13:39:08] <les> hrm
[13:39:15] <robin_sz> mariss stripped the components and overlayed it .. they are identical
[13:39:26] <robin_sz> well, a few changed areas
[13:39:33] <robin_sz> b you tthe blk overleays pad-for-pad
[13:39:43] <robin_sz> but the bulk
[13:39:55] <les> so this greg jackson guy....could you give me a brief synopsis of his character?
[13:40:12] <robin_sz> I already did ;)
[13:40:21] <les> haha
[13:40:44] <les> ok a twat. Does he have technical skills?
[13:40:46] <robin_sz> basically, i took issue with him when he spammed a list, offering these drives ...
[13:41:12] <fenn> that's pretty low
[13:41:13] <robin_sz> he didn;t see anyting wrong with it .. (either spamming or selling rip offs)
[13:41:19] <les> I hope it wasn't the gecko list
[13:41:28] <robin_sz> I forget which list ..
[13:42:02] <robin_sz> anyway .. I suggested (on list) that people didn;t buy his toolholders ...
[13:42:08] <les> brb phone
[13:42:09] <robin_sz> then he got REAL pissed :)
[13:42:27] <robin_sz> what goes around comes around huh?
[13:44:20] <fenn> i dont get it.. the "tordrive-2000" is $125 but a G201 is $114?
[13:44:32] <fenn> why would anyone buy the ripoff?
[13:44:44] <alex_joni> fenn: because it's a 2k ;)
[13:44:48] <alex_joni> not 201
[13:44:51] <alex_joni> 2000>201
[13:44:52] <alex_joni> LOL
[13:46:29] <alex_joni> fenn: btw.. "Under construction for the next week or so... 5/31/05 -- fenn"
[13:46:38] <alex_joni> it's a month soon
[13:47:30] <fenn> ack
[13:47:40] <fenn> time flies when you're having fun :)
[13:48:00] <alex_joni> heh
[13:48:23] <fenn> well, i dont really know what else to do to that wiki
[13:49:02] <alex_joni> hmm.. maybe I was more used to the old layout
[13:49:08] <alex_joni> can't seem to find stuff now
[13:49:15] <alex_joni> should be still there I think
[13:49:40] <fenn> well, its got a search bar at least
[13:50:15] <alex_joni> compiling emc2 is a mess
[13:50:25] <fenn> yeah
[13:50:48] <alex_joni> HowToTryEmc2 is actually compiling emc2
[13:51:26] <alex_joni> and BDI4 is not EMC2
[13:53:55] <fenn> i can't rename any of the pages.. that's why i'm making a new wiki
[13:54:07] <alex_joni> OK
[13:54:16] <alex_joni> would have been probably best to start like that all along
[13:54:33] <fenn> yeah, i didn't think of it until i was up to my knees in bs
[13:54:47] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/wiki
[13:54:56] <fenn> i can change linuxcnc.org back to original if you want
[13:55:32] <fenn> well, no, actually i dont want to do that
[13:57:17] <fenn> where'd the misconception come from that bdi-4 was emc2?
[13:58:29] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CompilingEMC2
[13:59:37] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[13:59:39] <anonimasu> brb
[13:59:44] <fenn> yeah but i put it there because i thought bdi-4 was emc2
[13:59:51] <fenn> and so did a lot of other people
[14:00:28] <alex_joni> yes.. and having things like this in the wiki doesn't really help in that direction
[14:01:02] <fenn> BUT the "recommended procedure" is to compile the CVS on the BDI if you want to run EMC2
[14:01:12] <alex_joni> nope
[14:01:15] <alex_joni> not true either
[14:01:18] <fenn> shrug
[14:01:44] <alex_joni> the recommended procedure is to get emc2 off CVS and compile it on ANY RTAI or RTLINUX patched kernel
[14:01:49] <alex_joni> BDI is only RTAI
[14:02:00] <alex_joni> so that's pretty restrictive in that direction
[14:02:13] <alex_joni> I did run emc2 on SuSE, deb, BDI, etc.
[14:02:20] <alex_joni> patched with RTAI mostly
[14:02:26] <alex_joni> but cradek runs it on RTLINUX
[14:02:28] <fenn> didn't know it worked with RTLINUX..
[14:02:35] <alex_joni> so it shouldn't matter
[14:02:38] <alex_joni> emc2 does
[14:02:45] <alex_joni> emc from the BDI doesn't
[14:05:05] <fenn> btw did my last email make sense
[14:05:07] <fenn> ?
[14:05:31] <alex_joni> can't recall ;)
[14:06:10] <fenn> heh.. it was the second one about a new improved message layer, the spindle speed example
[14:06:34] <fenn> and re-writing the rest of emc2 etc
[14:07:30] <alex_joni> fenn: are you aware of the amount of code that needs to be changed?
[14:08:02] <fenn> i've spent the last month doing nothing but reading and breathing emc documentation
[14:08:23] <fenn> and i think it all needs to go
[14:08:36] <fenn> oh i'll steal the algorithms, dont worry
[14:08:41] <ano|gone> ano|gone is now known as anonimasu_
[14:09:00] <anonimasu_> fenn: good luck.
[14:09:10] <anonimasu_> fenn: what is wrong with NML?
[14:09:12] <alex_joni> fenn: I'm doing this for more than a year now
[14:09:24] <alex_joni> fenn: it's not about algorithms
[14:09:33] <alex_joni> it's about sheer size of the task
[14:09:35] <anonimasu_> it's about the sheer ammount of code that depends on other code
[14:09:41] <alex_joni> about 50000 lines of code to change
[14:09:43] <anonimasu_> s/ammount/amount
[14:09:52] <fenn> that's cause it's over-complicated
[14:09:54] <alex_joni> maybe more if you want to exchange NML with smthg else
[14:10:08] <fenn> emc isn't 50000 lines worth of complexity
[14:10:08] <alex_joni> right.. but you still need to touch it, even if it's removing
[14:10:17] <alex_joni> it's far more worth
[14:10:20] <anonimasu_> fenn: are you sure about that?
[14:10:38] <alex_joni> build one for <50000 and I'll agree
[14:10:42] <fenn> yessir
[14:10:48] <alex_joni> but remember to have ALL the emc functionality
[14:10:50] <anonimasu_> fenn: why do you want nml to go?
[14:10:53] <alex_joni> stepper, servo
[14:10:57] <fenn> alex_joni: write me a feature list
[14:11:32] <fenn> anonimasu: nml seems to be the scapegoat for crappy coding practices in general
[14:11:50] <anonimasu_> fenn: that is not nml's fault it's the messaging layer implementation.
[14:12:11] <fenn> please explain
[14:12:22] <anonimasu_> ie, the switch statement
[14:12:23] <anonimasu_> ;)
[14:12:32] <alex_joni> http://work.depenet.com/odd/lol.htm
[14:12:42] <fenn> anonimasu: did you read my email?
[14:12:46] <anonimasu_> fenn: yes I did.
[14:12:55] <anonimasu_> but I cant remember it
[14:13:17] <anonimasu_> re-checking it
[14:13:25] <alex_joni> fenn: want a feature list?
[14:13:26] <fenn> well, basically the NML dialect hard-codes a lot of things like the fact that the machine has a spindle
[14:13:39] <fenn> alex_joni: an exhaustive one
[14:13:39] <alex_joni> fenn: that's dialect
[14:13:50] <alex_joni> not NML but NML implementation in EMC
[14:14:01] <anonimasu_> fenn: nml just relays the messages..
[14:14:13] <fenn> no cms relays the messages, i think
[14:14:18] <alex_joni> 1. stepping (14-15 stepping types), get those from HAL
[14:14:29] <alex_joni> 2. servo (STG, motenc, etc)
[14:14:31] <fenn> i will keep hal
[14:14:42] <alex_joni> 3. 6 axes, hexapods, kinematics
[14:14:43] <anonimasu_> fenn: are you going to write your own emc?
[14:14:54] <fenn> anonimasu: looks like it :/
[14:14:56] <alex_joni> 4. linear & rotary axis
[14:15:04] <alex_joni> 5. PID with FFx
[14:15:17] <alex_joni> 6. RS274-D GCODE interp
[14:15:28] <anonimasu_> fenn: I honestly think that's a stupid idea.
[14:15:30] <alex_joni> 7. speed settings /axis
[14:15:55] <alex_joni> 8. 3-4 GUI's (tkemc, mini, AXIS, emcpanel, keystick, xemc, etc)
[14:16:04] <alex_joni> 9. Scope
[14:16:11] <alex_joni> 10. RTAI & RTLINUX compatible
[14:16:19] <alex_joni> 11. ini-file configuration
[14:16:34] <alex_joni> 12. remote connection between components (GUI on doze & the like)
[14:16:43] <alex_joni> 13. external ESTOP support
[14:16:54] <alex_joni> 14. Homing, limit switches
[14:17:16] <alex_joni> 15. support for all milling related tasks (spindle, coolant, flood, lube)
[14:17:23] <anonimasu_> fenn: are you hellbent on replacing nml?, or is it possible to revise the codebase, to _FIX_ the mess.
[14:17:41] <alex_joni> 15.1. 15 should get replaceable for another machine (say laser)
[14:17:57] <alex_joni> 16. ferror and min_ferror support
[14:18:13] <alex_joni> 17. ini-based addresses for hardware
[14:18:22] <alex_joni> 18. feed-adjustment
[14:18:41] <alex_joni> 19. jogging (absolute, incremental, relative, continous)
[14:18:50] <alex_joni> 20. mm / inch selectable
[14:18:55] <alex_joni> 21. backplot support
[14:19:02] <alex_joni> 22. backlash support
[14:19:24] <alex_joni> 23. motor direction should be ini-adjustable
[14:19:44] <alex_joni> 24. more than one trajectory model (speed vs. exact path)
[14:19:57] <alex_joni> 25. stop/resume g-code programs
[14:20:02] <alex_joni> 26. MDI mode support
[14:20:11] <fenn> i thought you were giving a feature list for EMC.. but a requested feature list is good too
[14:20:17] <alex_joni> 27. 20 kHz stepping at least
[14:20:46] <alex_joni> there is only one not very ok in emc right now, that's 24
[14:20:49] <alex_joni> the rest is there
[14:21:06] <alex_joni> and 15.1
[14:21:31] <alex_joni> 28. custom M codes based on executables/scripts found on startup
[14:21:48] <alex_joni> I could go on for another half an hour.. but got bored ;)
[14:22:08] <fenn> slacker :)
[14:22:19] <alex_joni> no kidding
[14:22:30] <fenn> well, it'll be a good summer project
[14:22:37] <anonimasu_> fenn: did you read my question?
[14:22:44] <alex_joni> fenn: you know how much work is in emc already?
[14:23:03] <alex_joni> anonimasu_:never mind fixing the mess
[14:23:10] <fenn> anonimasu: fixing the mess is my goal
[14:23:13] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: that's currently beeing worked on
[14:23:23] <anonimasu_> alex_joni: I know
[14:23:46] <alex_joni> fenn: emc has about 10 years of coding in it
[14:23:49] <anonimasu_> fenn: so you are causing a split for that reason..
[14:23:53] <alex_joni> not a summer project
[14:24:06] <alex_joni> but if you think you can do it .. be my guest
[14:25:22] <fenn> anonimasu: i am concerned that EMC is too narrow in scope, and has been around so long that it's hard to change anything without breaking everything else
[14:25:41] <fenn> there's no way to make code flexible without re-writing it
[14:25:50] <fenn> this is a normal thing to do in software engineering
[14:26:07] <alex_joni> you don't do software engineering by yourself
[14:26:11] <anonimasu_> fenn: you have no idea how much work/code emc consists of.
[14:26:13] <alex_joni> that's crap
[14:26:27] <alex_joni> if you have a team that works on it.. maybe
[14:27:16] <fenn> well, most of the coders here have invested so much energy into learning how EMC1 works that they don't want to throw all that effort away
[14:27:36] <alex_joni> define coders here
[14:27:45] <anonimasu_> fenn: mind explaining "flexible"
[14:27:56] <anonimasu_> fenn: are you talking about plugging in other applications to interface it?
[14:28:03] <fenn> anonimasu: no
[14:28:06] <anonimasu_> fenn: or are you talking hardware?
[14:28:10] <anonimasu_> fenn: or functionality?
[14:28:18] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:28:21] <fenn> anonimasu: i'm talking about changing the way it works easily
[14:28:43] <anonimasu_> will you explain more.. I dont get what you mean by that..
[14:28:54] <SWPadnos> oooohhh - juicy conversation ;)
[14:28:58] <fenn> hoo boy
[14:29:01] <alex_joni> hey SWPadnos
[14:29:04] <anonimasu_> SWPadnosp: I am trying to get a grip..
[14:29:05] <SWPadnos> hi there
[14:29:22] <SWPadnos> emc doesn't directly support grippers
[14:29:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: emc doesn't currently support grippers
[14:29:41] <SWPadnos> but a suitable HAL module could be written :)
[14:29:59] <SWPadnos> or gripers, for that matter
[14:30:09] <fenn> anonimasu: i want it to be more modular in all respects
[14:30:25] <fenn> anonimasu: you don't need the rest of EMC to run HAL
[14:30:35] <SWPadnos> fenn has a point - it is customary to rewrite code to make it generic (it usually takes 3 revisions)
[14:30:41] <SWPadnos> it's not fun to do, though
[14:30:46] <fenn> that's the kind of independence all of the parts should have
[14:31:13] <alex_joni> the interp. can be run separately
[14:32:28] <alex_joni> now I wonder what good it would be to run the GUI on it's own
[14:32:44] <fenn> so you dont have to have an rtai kernel to test out the gui?
[14:33:06] <alex_joni> nope
[14:33:09] <alex_joni> GUI runs on doze
[14:33:13] <alex_joni> if you like
[14:33:19] <anonimasu_> afaik you wont need rtai to run the gui
[14:33:19] <alex_joni> heck all EMC can be compiled on doze
[14:33:32] <alex_joni> I already have done that
[14:33:48] <alex_joni> the only problem is the step outputs
[14:33:58] <alex_joni> as doze is way too unreliable to pulse out decent steps
[14:34:08] <alex_joni> now show me DBUS on doze
[14:34:43] <fenn> show me on-the-fly message creation and routing in any NML derivative
[14:35:14] <fenn> * fenn doesnt have windows
[14:35:23] <fenn> * fenn lives in a basement :)
[14:35:35] <anonimasu_> fenn: on the fly?
[14:35:48] <anonimasu_> you mean defining a new message type.. for a new module on the fly?
[14:35:53] <alex_joni> wot's on the fly?
[14:35:53] <anonimasu_> module/part
[14:36:03] <anonimasu_> without restarting emc or recompiling?=
[14:36:26] <fenn> yeah.. you start a new chunk of object code with new parameters, tell it what the parameters, and it routes a message to that code
[14:36:43] <fenn> without recompiling
[14:36:59] <fenn> restarting, not that much of an issue
[14:37:09] <fenn> i mean i dont care if i have to restart it
[14:37:33] <fenn> say you add a new axis to the machine, axis Q
[14:37:33] <anonimasu_> I havent looked too much at the switch stuff. but such functionality can be implemented
[14:37:47] <fenn> axis Q has a logarithmic output
[14:37:53] <fenn> no such kinematics exist
[14:37:57] <anonimasu_> class nmlroute()
[14:38:09] <anonimasu_> can you do the kinematics in nonrealtime?
[14:38:14] <fenn> yeah
[14:38:18] <alex_joni> kinematics are nonrealtime
[14:38:23] <anonimasu_> ok
[14:38:31] <fenn> otherwise we'd be screwed
[14:38:33] <alex_joni> but kinematics are not axis independent
[14:38:42] <alex_joni> they are machinedependent
[14:38:48] <fenn> arg
[14:39:01] <fenn> if your machine has one axis it still needs kinematics
[14:39:09] <anonimasu_> actually hacking togther a concept to show routing of messages like that would be pretty trivial
[14:39:56] <fenn> sigh.. i'm supposed to actually be getting something made today
[14:40:11] <fenn> instead of pointless nml arguments
[14:40:54] <anonimasu_> hm, it seems like you just want your own split of emc...
[14:41:05] <anonimasu_> :)
[14:41:09] <fenn> yeah
[14:41:23] <alex_joni> fenn: go right ahead
[14:41:28] <alex_joni> the sources are in CVS
[14:41:35] <alex_joni> do your thing locally
[14:41:45] <anonimasu_> fenn: stop complaining about how it is then, and make a own branch..
[14:41:54] <fenn> i will make a branch on the cvs
[14:41:57] <alex_joni> anonimasu_: not branch
[14:42:01] <fenn> why not?
[14:42:02] <alex_joni> branch is not ok
[14:42:03] <anonimasu_> oh branch/local
[14:42:09] <alex_joni> because :
[14:42:21] <alex_joni> 1. the number of branches is pretty big as it is
[14:42:30] <alex_joni> 2. you can't delete a branch afterwards
[14:42:39] <fenn> really?
[14:42:47] <alex_joni> 3. you wouldn't benefit from branching as you would have to rip out all the code
[14:42:56] <anonimasu_> that's true
[14:43:02] <alex_joni> 4. added files to a branch would be visible in the HEAD
[14:43:20] <alex_joni> 5. it would confuse users who know little about CVS
[14:43:52] <alex_joni> 6. before you do such a thing you might want to get an ok on the dev list, or on sundays meeting
[14:44:01] <fenn> of course
[14:44:23] <SWPadnos> fenn, even if you can dynamically create message types, how does the system know those messages unless it's modified?
[14:44:23] <SWPadnos> ie,
[14:44:31] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it won't
[14:44:37] <alex_joni> only 2 parties need to know it
[14:44:39] <anonimasu_> fenn: I see no point in arguing any further, beyond this, I was trying to get to a conclusion what was wrong and if it could be fixed.
[14:44:42] <alex_joni> sender and receiver
[14:44:43] <fenn> i wasnt going to bring it up until i was serious about it.. but paul kinda forced me to get all this out there
[14:45:05] <fenn> SWPadnos: the message structure is based on the code structure, which is dynamic
[14:45:20] <anonimasu_> I see this as a waste of dev resources..
[14:45:32] <SWPadnos> yes - so you have a new sender and a new receiver (and a new GUI and a new interpreter etc) - all parts of the system need to have some changes if a *really new* thing is added
[14:45:41] <fenn> anonimasu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refactoring
[14:46:02] <fenn> SWPadnos: no, not at all
[14:46:22] <SWPadnos> refactoring = throwing away everything but the 6 lines of logic in a program ;)
[14:46:30] <anonimasu_> yeah
[14:46:34] <SWPadnos> (sometimes 7)
[14:46:38] <fenn> heh
[14:46:42] <fenn> true
[14:47:14] <anonimasu_> oh well, such a system with messages can be realized.
[14:47:30] <anonimasu_> even with nml.
[14:47:30] <anonimasu_> :D
[14:47:31] <SWPadnos> fenn, look at it this way - there are (at least) two stages to changing EMC to be more generic
[14:47:39] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: it's a small step from 7 to 70.000
[14:47:57] <SWPadnos> step 1 is changing the modules so they have less (ideally no) interdependence
[14:48:22] <SWPadnos> so things like an interpreter are easily interchangeable
[14:48:36] <SWPadnos> step 2 is actually implementing functional changes
[14:48:46] <SWPadnos> which is easier, since you now have a more modular system
[14:48:53] <fenn> yes first you refactor, then you implement new features
[14:49:23] <SWPadnos> emc is pretty modular already, and the messaging layer is part of what makes it so
[14:49:46] <anonimasu_> fenn: well, go ahead.
[14:49:48] <SWPadnos> you can write a plant control program that directly controls hundreds of EMC machines on a shop floor
[14:50:12] <SWPadnos> communicating via NML, running on whatever OS you want
[14:50:44] <fenn> and it will still be a pain in the ass to use
[14:50:49] <SWPadnos> there are pieces that aren't able to be "snaped" in or out, but some work is being done in that direction
[14:50:53] <SWPadnos> snapped
[14:51:29] <alex_joni> fenn: unfortunately I haven't seen any of your code, so I'm not able to say if you will succeed or not
[14:51:39] <SWPadnos> (I personally dislike the fact that the task planner, trajectory planner, and interpreter end up in the same executable)
[14:51:41] <fenn> alex_joni: me either
[14:52:11] <SWPadnos> it would be great to use loadable modules for that (DLL hell, as Ray loves to point out :) )
[14:52:20] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[14:52:40] <SWPadnos> I'd say the first thing is to look at the capabilities that are there
[14:53:02] <SWPadnos> then look at how the tasks are split between the parts of EMC
[14:53:13] <SWPadnos> then look at how you want them split
[14:53:14] <alex_joni> I'd say the first thing is to add missing crucial capabilities
[14:53:21] <alex_joni> like an better TP
[14:53:38] <anonimasu_> agreed
[14:53:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I HATE MY FUCKING BANK!
[14:53:45] <SWPadnos> well - making it work is #1, but for fenn, making it "better" is a driver
[14:53:54] <anonimasu_> that's the first major step in accomplishing anything
[14:54:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm gonna switch my bank.
[14:54:07] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, tell us how you really feel
[14:54:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I so fuck'n hate them.
[14:54:18] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ pats A-L-P-H-A on the back
[14:54:24] <alex_joni> heh
[14:54:26] <SWPadnos> they have that big tower in the middle of town, right?
[14:54:29] <fenn> A-L-P-H-A: go in there with a machine gun and politely request that they do whatever it is
[14:54:52] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks fenn might be affected by videogames
[14:54:55] <fenn> nobody move! i want free checking!
[14:55:10] <anonimasu_> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/unmaincamouflage.html
[14:55:13] <anonimasu_> #
[14:55:13] <anonimasu_> How to Hide Forbidden Globals
[14:55:15] <alex_joni> maybe some childhood marks :)
[14:55:16] <anonimasu_> ^_^
[14:55:19] <anonimasu_> hillarious
[14:55:20] <A-L-P-H-A> They send me a package, it states i have 10 days to till it out from the date it was printed. I have 2 day to gather it all, and mail it, and shit. Fuck'n impossible. So they mail me out another package, and say ignore the dates, just do it in 30 days.
[14:56:05] <A-L-P-H-A> So I do. Then they tell me, oh, you're missing some forms. WTF couldn't you, the bank, send me all the fuck'n forms. Now they say they want a letter from someone outside my family to state my source of income, and how I'm supporting myself.
[14:56:29] <anonimasu_> HM
[14:56:34] <anonimasu_> if my bank did that I'd change.
[14:56:44] <anonimasu_> my bank is sick..
[14:57:01] <anonimasu_> I went there and said I wanted a better rate at my accounts..
[14:57:05] <A-L-P-H-A> WTF. They make me jump through so many fuck'n hoops, just to save as I calculated it... $135CDN for two months.
[14:57:41] <anonimasu_> they told me that if I put 13000$ for 5 years there they could give a slightly better rate
[14:57:44] <fenn> okay, it's been nice having this little talk with all of you, but i'm going to build something now
[14:57:51] <fenn> fenn is now known as fenn_afk
[14:58:10] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu. I hoped you moved.
[14:58:19] <anonimasu_> just all the money..
[14:58:20] <anonimasu_> :)
[14:58:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I am switching banks in right fuck'n away.
[14:58:28] <anonimasu_> or well, I'll do it soon
[14:58:29] <anonimasu_> :D
[14:58:33] <anonimasu_> I got so mad..
[14:58:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I got mad right now.
[14:58:52] <anonimasu_> no way in hell I'd lock $13k there, for 5 years
[14:59:23] <anonimasu_> it's ridiculous..
[14:59:48] <A-L-P-H-A> $13K USD? or what?
[14:59:50] <anonimasu_> yeah
[15:00:10] <anonimasu_> then they wanted me to invest in funds/whatever they are called..
[15:00:19] <anonimasu_> and I told them "NO WAY IN HELL"
[15:00:31] <anonimasu_> not that I'd place 13k even if I had that much to place..
[15:00:32] <A-L-P-H-A> banks are here to screw you fuck'n over.
[15:01:09] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[15:01:19] <anonimasu_> tax office's also
[15:01:20] <anonimasu_> :/
[15:01:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm gonna go do it... I wrote this fuck'n letter, and just gonna get one of my friends to sign it. And done.
[15:07:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to grab some lunch
[15:07:24] <anonimasu_> laters alex
[15:08:26] <Jymmm> bah, still trying to wake up
[15:09:47] <SWPadnos> don't bother
[15:09:54] <SWPadnos> it's much better to sleep
[15:10:31] <Jymmm> I think so too, but one of the parrots thinks otherwise and is MUCh louder =)
[15:12:14] <Jymmm> She wakes up WAY too early. Even the other parrots think so and grumble!
[15:12:39] <SWPadnos> heh - have you seen the Pixar short "For The Birds"?
[15:12:51] <Jymmm> never heard of it (I dont think)
[15:13:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.pixar.com/shorts/ftb/
[15:13:11] <SWPadnos> grumbling birds reminded me of it
[15:14:13] <SWPadnos> I think it's included on the Toy Story DVD
[15:20:10] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos... know anyone I could hire to take down an entire evil corperation? Such as a large multinational bank?
[15:20:33] <SWPadnos> Puss In Boots
[15:20:54] <SWPadnos> but don't tell him I sent you
[15:21:26] <A-L-P-H-A> wanted, a corperate assasin, that is able to take down a large multinational bank, and willing to do it on consignment. Payment will be a direct proportion of profits by selling their stocks short on the open market prior to planned destruction.
[15:21:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I should put that on metropolis. hahahaha
[15:21:57] <SWPadnos> ask in #Corporate_Assassins
[15:22:13] <Jymmm> bah
[15:22:23] <Jymmm> logger_aj,bookmark
[15:22:23] <Jymmm> See
[15:22:38] <SWPadnos> didn't miss much
[15:23:29] <Jymmm> I swapped things around in my system yesterday and musta changed something in the BIOS, my desktop isn't stable anymore.
[15:23:43] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, I wonder will there will be high traffic in #corporate_Assassins ?
[15:25:00] <SWPadnos> not sure ;)
[15:31:23] <SWPadnos> unstable desktop bites again!
[15:31:34] <Jymmm> Well, it seems to be the PCI bridge setting sin the BIOS
[15:32:27] <Jymmm> You know, why do they have so many settings but never really tell you what they are for?! lol
[15:33:47] <Jymmm> Yeah, I saw the full 'For The Birds' a ways back, funny stuff!
[15:34:16] <SWPadnos> I liked it on whatever DVD it came on
[15:34:19] <Jymmm> This is pretty funny too http://www.pixar.com/shorts/gg/index.html
[15:34:38] <SWPadnos> yep - I've seen that one too
[15:35:26] <Jymmm> Ah, I think the shrot is on Nemo
[15:35:36] <Jymmm> * Jymmm grabs the dvd
[15:35:48] <SWPadnos> I think it's from before that - maybe "Toy Story" or "A Bug's Life"
[15:36:31] <SWPadnos> yep - "Geri's Game" is on "A Bug's Life"
[15:37:01] <Jymmm> playing a dvd, if I go bye-bye, you know what just went bonkers (again)
[15:37:11] <SWPadnos> and "For The Birds" is on "Monsters, Inc."
[15:37:16] <Jymmm> damn
[15:37:48] <Jymmm> Well, the only pixar I have is nemo, so...
[15:37:57] <SWPadnos> I should know it isn't on Toy Story - I don't think we have that one :)
[15:38:12] <Jymmm> maybe a bugs life
[15:38:18] <SWPadnos> Have you seen the others?
[15:38:40] <Jymmm> not all of the ones listed...
[15:39:04] <SWPadnos> I mean "A Bug's Life" and "Monsters, Inc"
[15:39:12] <Jymmm> oh, yeah =)
[15:39:24] <SWPadnos> heh - and they say they're just for kids :)
[15:39:30] <Jymmm> And the Incrediables too
[15:39:37] <SWPadnos> oh yeah - that was great
[15:39:38] <Jymmm> oh that's bullshit!
[15:39:43] <SWPadnos> saw that one in the theater
[15:40:19] <Jymmm> We have Shrek 1 & 2, Ice Age, Nemo
[15:40:26] <SWPadnos> it was funny - we were looking for a good movie, and the only one was "The Incredibles" - none of the live-action movies looked the least bit interesting
[15:40:39] <SWPadnos> yep - same here (and no kids :D )
[15:40:43] <Jymmm> ditto
[15:41:08] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I really should build another DVD / CD rack
[15:41:27] <SWPadnos> we've overflowed the 3 DVD shelves in this one
[15:41:44] <Jymmm> My neighbot just uses the binders
[15:42:04] <Jymmm> He has like 200 DVD's
[15:42:09] <Jymmm> maybe more
[15:42:23] <SWPadnos> I had considered getting a Pioneer changer, but I think we now have too many for one of those (300)
[15:42:55] <SWPadnos> we finally watched Shrek 2 last night - that was excellent
[15:43:08] <Jymmm> The sony can be chained together
[15:43:29] <SWPadnos> I think you can chain two pioneers as well (and Sony has a 400-disc one, I think)
[15:43:30] <Jymmm> each holds 600
[15:43:36] <SWPadnos> 600 now - wow
[15:43:42] <Jymmm> for $300 too
[15:43:49] <Jymmm> maybe $200
[15:44:03] <SWPadnos> does it do DVD-audio?
[15:44:37] <Jymmm> damn, a friend is goin on a boat trip today http://www.islaspalomino.com/
[15:45:11] <SWPadnos> nice scenery ;)
[15:45:23] <Jymmm> Should be.... for Peru
[15:54:22] <dan_falck> Jymmm: i got those surplus bearings a while ago.
[15:54:40] <dan_falck> Jymmm: they were new old stock wrapped in oiled paper
[15:54:41] <Jymmm> dan_falck yeah?
[15:54:47] <Jymmm> cool
[15:55:03] <dan_falck> Jymmm: they are coated in some really thick cosmoline
[15:55:15] <Jymmm> got blowtorch?
[15:55:22] <SWPadnos> WD-40 works well on cosmoline :)
[15:55:25] <dan_falck> Jymmm: so I need to clean them out at work and repack some grease in them
[15:56:01] <dan_falck> the inners and outers are ground flush to each other, so I will have to work out a spacer arrangement
[15:56:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos good to know
[15:56:27] <SWPadnos> I cleaned ballscrews with WD-40 - worked like a charm
[15:56:54] <dan_falck> yep to WD-40
[15:57:03] <SWPadnos> I got a cheap plastic tablecloth at a Dollar store, sprayed the ballecrews on it, and wrapped it up for a day
[15:57:11] <SWPadnos> the cosmoline fell off the next morning :)
[15:57:17] <dan_falck> cool
[15:57:31] <Jymmm> ah soaking helps. I'll remember that
[15:57:44] <SWPadnos> I think it's the vapor for a day that really helps :)
[15:58:03] <dan_falck> I'll soak one of these bearings today then
[15:58:29] <Jymmm> gallon of wd40 is $10
[15:58:30] <dan_falck> got my mill going this last week
[15:58:44] <SWPadnos> there's a really good grease to use as well - Mobilgrease 28
[15:58:57] <dan_falck> using EMC1 and DRO card. Using EMC as a glorified DRO right now
[15:59:00] <SWPadnos> it's an aircraft grease - good for very wide tepmeratures
[15:59:30] <dan_falck> Until I get the servo amps out of mothballs
[16:00:27] <Jymmm> I have to build a 4' sq enclosure for my machine. =(
[16:00:44] <SWPadnos> 4' cube, you mean? :)
[16:00:52] <dan_falck> you're trying to sound proof it right?
[16:00:54] <Jymmm> yeah.
[16:01:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos correct =)
[16:01:27] <SWPadnos> just get 3 sheets of plywood, stack them all up, and do a single cut in half
[16:01:28] <dan_falck> a long time ago, I used to do guitar repair in my apartment with a router ;)
[16:01:29] <Jymmm> I was hoping for 36" cubed
[16:02:05] <SWPadnos> (or ask the guys at Home depot reqal nice, and they'll do it for you
[16:02:07] <SWPadnos> )
[16:02:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you mean 5 pieces
[16:02:57] <SWPadnos> you need 5, but you get 6 - I'm not sure if you're better off just getting the 4x4 plywood in the first place
[16:03:04] <Jymmm> dan_falck I got a shitload of carpet the other day for the soundproofing
[16:03:06] <SWPadnos> it's probably a better deal
[16:03:56] <dan_falck> keep a fire extinguisher handy too : )
[16:04:10] <Jymmm> Well, I still need to build a box for the shopvac and maybe small compressor too. I'm almost thinking just building a cabinet on casters
[16:04:17] <Jymmm> dan_falck I got three =)
[16:04:34] <SWPadnos> shop-vac cabinets don't do a lot of good
[16:04:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos huh?
[16:04:46] <SWPadnos> even with expensive "noise-suppression foam"
[16:05:11] <Jymmm> SWPadnos actually my router is louder than the vac
[16:05:18] <SWPadnos> we had one as a fume extraction system at my old company - it cut down on the noise somewhat, but it really wasn't that great
[16:05:23] <dan_falck> get one of the dust collectors with cloth bags. They're quieter
[16:05:25] <Jymmm> this vac is a tad louder than a household vacuum
[16:05:26] <SWPadnos> and we spent $hundreds on the material
[16:05:52] <SWPadnos> you may be OK then
[16:05:52] <Jymmm> dan_falck my dust colector is a shopvac =)
[16:06:10] <Jymmm> SWPadnos plus wrapped in 3" of carpet, I think just might help =)
[16:06:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:06:45] <Jymmm> dan_falck http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=81231&catalogId=10001&classNum=157&subdeptNum=155&storeNum=8
[16:06:48] <dan_falck> reinforce the insulation in the apartment.
[16:07:07] <Jymmm> like I want to hear it either?! =)
[16:07:57] <dan_falck> I used to play in bands. We set up rehearsal spaces with extra insulation all over the place
[16:08:24] <dan_falck> drums were always fun
[16:08:43] <dan_falck> they got extra baffles around them
[16:09:29] <Jymmm> These are VERY nice --> http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=118230&catalogId=10001&classNum=156&subdeptNum=155&storeNum=8
[16:12:02] <Jymmm> My biggest issue right now is the 4' dimensions. It really screw up things in this room. 36" is fine, but that extra fowls up stuff and I have to think about rearranging everything in here and there's is a lot of file cabinets, or to just 'deal with it' somehow. I'd rather have somethign on wheels though. Kinda a 2x4 then just bolt two together.
[16:21:11] <Jymmm> I'll take the shopvac and the router out back and wrap the carpet around them to give me an idea on how thick I really need =)
[16:23:51] <dan_falck> hi paul
[16:24:12] <paul_c> Afternoon Dan
[16:24:21] <dan_falck> how are things?
[16:24:31] <paul_c> How's the weather up in Portland ?
[16:24:47] <dan_falck> rain, sun, rain, sun...
[16:25:02] <dan_falck> supposed to get lots more rain
[16:25:04] <paul_c> Sounds just like Blighty
[16:25:05] <Jymmm> ditto in SFO area
[16:25:43] <dan_falck> used my mill for the first time in over a year this week
[16:26:08] <dan_falck> carved out a bit of space to work in
[16:27:39] <dan_falck> I'm using my Kulaga DRO card with an older BDI. Haven't hooked up servo amps yet.
[16:27:51] <dan_falck> EMC works as a nice DRO
[16:27:57] <dmess> high all...
[16:28:03] <dan_falck> hello dmess
[16:28:47] <dan_falck> steve_stallings: are you headed to the CNC workshop this week?
[16:29:15] <steve_stallings> Yes, expect to be there Wednesday through Sunday
[16:29:40] <dan_falck> sounds like it should be a good time
[16:29:53] <dmess> thats on the old mazac right??
[16:30:10] <dmess> mazak
[16:30:14] <steve_stallings> Dan, are you going to be there?
[16:30:27] <dan_falck> no, not enough money or vacation time this year
[16:30:35] <dan_falck> I wish I could be there
[16:31:06] <dan_falck> take lots of pictures and post them if you can
[16:31:18] <dmess> they should web cam it to a site
[16:31:25] <steve_stallings> It's a killer for me, but Ray Henry has a way of twisting arms....
[16:32:28] <dan_falck> is Matt going too?
[16:32:37] <steve_stallings> Yes, traveling with me.
[16:35:50] <dan_falck> well, I need to go work on the mill. Talk to you guys later.
[16:36:08] <Jymmm> dan_falck hasta and thansk for the info on the bearings!
[16:36:23] <dmess> http://www.uflyontario.com/ .. be well
[16:37:30] <Jymmm> lol... I just looked at that url, and I'm thinking Ontario California. Even the area code is close (909). lol
[16:37:44] <dmess> nop canada
[16:38:06] <dmess> i started work on a carbon fiber mtg bike frame this am
[16:38:07] <Jymmm> but I see the pic and think "There's no water anywhere NEAR ONT"
[16:38:32] <dmess> we have a big lake named ontario..
[16:38:45] <Jymmm> they one you can't see across you mean?
[16:38:59] <Jymmm> even from the CN Tower
[16:39:35] <dmess> ah 52 miles i believe... so ya you cant see across it to see buffalo's fires burnin'
[16:40:34] <dmess> near st catherines you can see across on a good day..
[16:40:38] <anonimasu_> iab
[16:41:16] <dmess> oshawa is 34 miles across and it still a long way in a catameran.. on dec 15... man we were idiots...
[16:41:19] <Jymmm> dmess it was mostly a clear day when I was there and still couldn't see across it =)
[16:41:37] <dmess> not from toronto...
[16:41:49] <Jymmm> oh, ok.
[16:42:07] <dmess> iv flown to 8000' and cant see across
[16:42:09] <Jymmm> well, I'm thinkin a mile high in the sky should make SOME difference there
[16:42:14] <Jymmm> doh!
[16:42:15] <Jymmm> lol
[16:42:32] <dmess> lol
[16:42:33] <Jymmm> and they call it a lake.... bullshit!
[16:42:49] <dmess> what is it then??
[16:42:55] <Jymmm> a mini sea
[16:43:10] <dmess> cause its not evern close to the biggest one...
[16:43:28] <Jymmm> still.... you can see across lakes, that aint no lake damnit!
[16:43:34] <dmess> Superior IS an inland sea to anyone who sails her
[16:43:43] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:43:57] <Jymmm> see, we need a new word between Lake and Sea
[16:44:03] <anonimasu_> sealake
[16:44:05] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:44:11] <dmess> hey anu.. they amazed we call lake ontario a lake...
[16:44:37] <dmess> ever seen great slave lake... its LARGE
[16:44:56] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[16:45:01] <anonimasu_> I've never seen it since I am in sweden..
[16:45:03] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:45:40] <dmess> oh really.. now..
[16:46:09] <dmess> sorry i confused you with alpha for a moment..
[16:46:27] <Jymmm> anonimasu I'd slap him if I were you for that one!
[16:46:42] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ slaps dmess under the rug
[16:46:54] <anonimasu_> *grin*
[16:47:02] <anonimasu_> hmI almost scrapped another part
[16:47:02] <anonimasu_> :)
[16:47:14] <dmess> sorry.. i apologize and let me live forever with the pygmie in new guinea... amen
[16:47:25] <anonimasu_> dmess: dont worry
[16:47:27] <Jymmm> lol
[16:47:44] <dmess> not the flippin rug ... AGAIN...
[16:47:44] <Jymmm> dmess : No way, you now have to LIVE with A-L-P-H-A for a year!
[16:47:56] <anonimasu_> I took a too heavy cut and the mill pulled the piece out of the vise
[16:48:03] <Jymmm> ouch
[16:48:11] <anonimasu_> I am making a mount for the die grinder so I can engrave with it on the mill..
[16:48:18] <dmess> ahhh..insufficient clamping pressure...
[16:49:01] <Jymmm> vise + impact wrench == sufficient clamping pressure
[16:49:04] <anonimasu_> I figured it's way better then my large spindle for engraving
[16:49:11] <anonimasu_> oh I am afraid to break another vise
[16:49:12] <anonimasu_> :D
[16:49:15] <Jymmm> anonimasu air?
[16:49:15] <anonimasu_> the other one broke in half
[16:49:20] <anonimasu_> yeah
[16:49:31] <anonimasu_> 64000rpm
[16:49:37] <dmess> hey whats with the american cout system letin MJ off with yet ANOTHER kid under his drawers???
[16:49:58] <Jymmm> dmess That's HollyWood for ya
[16:50:08] <anonimasu_> dmess: think of the poor celebrities!
[16:50:09] <Jymmm> or as I like to call em HollyWeird
[16:50:18] <anonimasu_> Jymmm: I still havent gotten around to making any parts for the robot yet :)
[16:50:24] <dmess> but guys... another KID...
[16:50:44] <anonimasu_> the justice system here is the same..
[16:50:48] <dmess> some one's needs to hurt that boy..
[16:50:51] <Jymmm> dmess did you hear that that kid's parents also tried pulling the same thing with another celebrity too?
[16:51:10] <anonimasu_> they nail some pedophile and they get 5 years of jailtime..
[16:51:15] <anonimasu_> yeah like that's enough..
[16:51:38] <anonimasu_> they should have their balls cut off and then they should be chained inside some mine..
[16:51:40] <dmess> he wouldnt last 5 days in general population
[16:52:02] <dmess> no miners need BALLS
[16:52:14] <anonimasu_> dmess: thoose miners does not deserve to keep them
[16:53:11] <dmess> but all the other miners would laugh and make fun of their funny sounding voises..
[16:53:32] <dmess> ive been in quite a few mines
[16:53:40] <anonimasu_> they should be let free based on how much coal they produce ;)
[16:53:47] <anonimasu_> coal/iron/whatever..
[16:55:08] <dmess> well it you get the right burnin temperature .. the average human male could be reduced to about 1.2 lbs or 1/2 kg worth of ash/carbon mat'l...
[16:55:21] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[16:55:23] <anonimasu_> that's a good thought
[16:55:24] <anonimasu_> :D
[16:55:26] <anonimasu_> brb dinner
[16:55:32] <dmess> worth about .45 us $$
[16:55:59] <dmess> use the liquid oxygen ignition system
[16:58:37] <paul_c> Hrmm... The logic of locking MJ up with minors is um... err...
[16:59:22] <dmess> miners... not minors...
[16:59:54] <dmess> as in those who mine..
[17:00:25] <paul_c> nah... Just send him to a plastics recycling centre
[17:01:38] <dmess> paul's got a HELuf an idea...
[17:02:12] <dmess> lets hear ya sing your way thru the chippers...
[17:02:44] <dmess> give a whole ney meanin' to " beat it"
[17:02:45] <paul_c> ah. ah. ah. Stayin alive. ah. ah.
[17:03:01] <paul_c> stayin aliiiive.
[17:03:14] <dmess> go with it paul... this is good mat'l
[17:05:28] <paul_c> You to could own a piece of MJ when you by his Greatest Hits CD
[17:05:48] <paul_c> Thanks to the Ca. recycling program.
[17:06:13] <paul_c> Doing our bit to reduce waste.
[17:06:34] <alex_joni> ello
[17:06:44] <paul_c> and hereeeeees. Jonnie
[17:07:01] <alex_joni> greetings paul
[17:07:25] <paul_c> Hi Alex
[17:07:54] <paul_c> Having a re-run of some crap 'mericun TC show here.
[17:08:02] <alex_joni> heh
[17:08:12] <alex_joni> I just finished parsing my messages ;)
[17:22:27] <anonimasu_> iab
[17:23:07] <alex_joni> hey anonimasu
[17:24:25] <anonimasu_> what's up?
[17:24:39] <alex_joni> I'm wishing nice things to fenn ;)
[17:24:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is working on the wiki page
[17:24:56] <anonimasu_> restoration time?
[17:25:05] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[17:25:11] <alex_joni> making some pages available again
[17:25:53] <anonimasu_> * anonimasu_ nods
[17:26:38] <alex_joni> and removing some aberations
[17:27:33] <anonimasu_> ok
[17:27:34] <anonimasu_> nice
[17:27:50] <alex_joni> you might give me a hand ;)
[17:29:05] <anonimasu_> for a bit :) going to leave for my friends place in a bit
[17:29:08] <anonimasu_> I went home yesterday
[17:29:22] <anonimasu_> I fell asleep while waiting for QT to compile, on the laptop
[17:29:28] <alex_joni> lol
[17:29:35] <alex_joni> QT makes me sleepy too
[17:29:43] <anonimasu_> it's easy :)
[17:30:21] <alex_joni> easy to fall asleep
[17:30:25] <anonimasu_> either I take a shower and go there or I finish machining my part..
[17:30:33] <anonimasu_> or I help you out and go back to machining my part
[17:30:35] <anonimasu_> and then go there..
[17:30:40] <alex_joni> your call
[17:30:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is on 33% battery
[17:30:48] <anonimasu_> I'll go and finish my part then I'll leave and I'll help you out a bit :)
[17:30:51] <alex_joni> power went out..
[17:30:54] <anonimasu_> :/
[17:31:06] <anonimasu_> there was a thunderstorm earlier here
[17:31:24] <anonimasu_> BRB
[17:46:46] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is fading
[17:52:06] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is at 18%
[17:55:40] <paul_c> goodby alex_joni
[17:55:45] <paul_c> 8.
[17:55:50] <paul_c> 7.
[17:55:54] <paul_c> 6....
[17:56:36] <alex_joni> 16 &
[17:56:38] <alex_joni> 16 %
[17:56:47] <alex_joni> might be another half an hour
[18:03:34] <SWPadnos> you need to type slower - you're usig too much CPU
[18:34:46] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[18:36:51] <dmess> sorry roflmaoff .. good stuff.. paul_c .... im peein' mineself.. ; )===
[18:39:31] <dmess> we had a plane with our nose gear come down this week with the gear still UP....
[18:40:42] <dmess> pilot forgot to push the buttons
[18:42:12] <dmess> a friend of mine flew in the canadian hang gliding championships last week.... 2 brand new never before flown wings...
[18:43:16] <dmess> 1st went fine... good wing... set-up was clean... launch... trim flight.. and land...
[18:45:02] <dmess> 2nd ... set-up seemed clean... but launch became a cluster...and he unhooked to fix a zipper on the wing... as the prior 2 launch potatoes ..launched...
[18:45:54] <dmess> he picked it up ...yelled clear &launch 2X... and ran... as the wing rose BUT he didnt
[18:47:21] <dmess> he crawled up over the basebar and flew it into the rolling hillside that was launch TODAY... not yesterdays 1200' cliff
[18:47:59] <dmess> had the whole horse up his ass.. not just the shoe..
[18:54:15] <anonimasu_> :)
[19:05:09] <jacky^> evening
[20:03:02] <Jymmm> dmess for the plane w/ no landing gear (now), you should charge a dumbass fee of 25%
[20:10:32] <Phydbleep> Plus an extra $10 for laundry services.. I know I'd laugh so hard I might pee my pants. :)
[20:20:24] <jacky^> losted in gcode :\
[20:26:44] <anonimasu> :)
[20:52:41] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[20:52:47] <jacky^> :)
[20:52:49] <alex_joni> hello
[20:54:52] <jacky^> i'm tryng many cad and image-gcode converter, at the end they all seem use the same algorith.. same final result
[20:57:00] <jacky^> hi robin_sz
[20:57:26] <robin_sz> evening ...
[20:57:33] <robin_sz> its *hot* here today
[20:57:36] <alex_joni> 'lo robin
[20:57:40] <robin_sz> hi alex
[20:57:50] <alex_joni> what's up?
[20:57:53] <jacky^> robin_sz: also here
[20:57:59] <robin_sz> well ...
[20:58:26] <robin_sz> today was a "what the fsck was that laser doing last week" day ... I had a couple of problems I wanted to solve
[20:59:48] <robin_sz> so .. tell me ...
[20:59:53] <alex_joni> wha?
[20:59:53] <robin_sz> I have a win95 laptop
[21:00:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni feels pitty
[21:00:08] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:00:12] <cradek> * cradek loans robin_sz his redhat9 CDs
[21:00:16] <robin_sz> ideally, I'd just want to run DOS
[21:00:28] <cradek> robin_sz: freedos works pretty well
[21:00:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hands robin some DOS 4.1 install disks
[21:00:34] <robin_sz> but W95 will reboot into DOS mode
[21:00:40] <alex_joni> right
[21:00:50] <alex_joni> even before->Hit F5 at startup
[21:00:52] <robin_sz> cradek: been there, tried that, wasted a weekend
[21:00:58] <robin_sz> right
[21:01:02] <cradek> robin_sz: I run autocad on freedos...
[21:01:08] <Phydbleep> F8 not F5
[21:01:11] <robin_sz> but .. how can I make it just always boot into DOS?
[21:01:15] <robin_sz> yeah F8
[21:01:19] <cradek> robin_sz: you can make dos the default boot selection by editing ... some file or other
[21:01:29] <robin_sz> cradek: that much I figured
[21:01:31] <cradek> robin_sz: ask google
[21:01:41] <robin_sz> the trick is to know which file
[21:01:47] <cradek> robin_sz: I've done that, but it was long ago
[21:01:51] <Phydbleep> look for the "SELL = " line.
[21:01:53] <alex_joni> config.sys ?
[21:01:56] <Phydbleep> SHELL
[21:02:23] <robin_sz> gah ..
[21:02:29] <robin_sz> so its hot here tonight
[21:02:34] <robin_sz> first nice evening of the year
[21:02:53] <robin_sz> and some twat has decided to mow his field with a bloody great big tractor ...
[21:03:18] <alex_joni> robin_sz: rename the windows folder ;)
[21:03:23] <robin_sz> * robin_sz goes to find the tungsten tipped bullets and HEAT rounds
[21:03:33] <cradek> Options in MSDOS.SYS
[21:03:38] <cradek> BootWin=0
[21:03:38] <cradek> This command will boot into your OLD DOS without loading Windows 95.
[21:03:43] <cradek> BootGUI=0
[21:03:43] <cradek> Boots DOS 7.0 instead of Windows 95.
[21:03:49] <cradek> http://www.americatoday.com/hanar/dosb.htm
[21:03:57] <robin_sz> ooh nicey :)
[21:04:13] <robin_sz> thats just right
[21:04:31] <alex_joni> and it was F4
[21:04:32] <robin_sz> the laser monitoring porogram is DOS based
[21:04:52] <robin_sz> I did do a freedos box for it ... but it would not run
[21:04:53] <alex_joni> with F4 it simply boots to dos, doesn't open that menu
[21:04:59] <robin_sz> coo.
[21:05:21] <alex_joni> robin_sz: short question
[21:05:28] <robin_sz> 42
[21:05:31] <alex_joni> is there a way of restoring the wiki to a previous state?
[21:05:35] <robin_sz> yes
[21:05:43] <alex_joni> how?
[21:05:54] <robin_sz> wait ...
[21:08:05] <robin_sz> view other revisions ... (choose a revision) .. edit revision <number> ... save
[21:08:14] <alex_joni> right
[21:08:21] <alex_joni> was thinking for the whole wiki ;)
[21:08:28] <robin_sz> ahh.
[21:08:41] <alex_joni> but then again.. I see a lot of people have commited some docs.. wouldn't befair to erase that too
[21:08:46] <robin_sz> for any particular reason?
[21:09:20] <robin_sz> we have nightly backup of the whole server ...
[21:09:35] <robin_sz> we can rol anything back to anytime day if we have to ...
[21:09:56] <cradek> alex_joni: why?
[21:13:15] <alex_joni> cradek: fenn kinda mixed it up
[21:13:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going through the pages now
[21:13:43] <robin_sz> alex_joni: I must admit it did seem a bit ... ummm .. random
[21:13:54] <alex_joni> right
[21:14:05] <alex_joni> it was pretty mixed up, emc with emc2 with BDI
[21:14:06] <robin_sz> and some bits apply to emc1 and emc2
[21:14:12] <alex_joni> right
[21:14:24] <cradek> yikes
[21:14:26] <alex_joni> and.. we already have confused users..
[21:14:35] <alex_joni> having the wiki messed up only adds problems
[21:14:56] <robin_sz> well, anyway ... I handed over the keys to that paerticular kingdom to Steve Stallings ...
[21:15:13] <robin_sz> if he gave the admn password to fenn, thats his lookout
[21:15:48] <robin_sz> what would have been better, is if fenn wanted to reorganise the index ..
[21:15:54] <robin_sz> he created a new page
[21:16:00] <robin_sz> built his index
[21:16:06] <alex_joni> seems he does a new wiki now
[21:16:14] <alex_joni> lost interest on this one
[21:16:21] <robin_sz> new wiki? where ?
[21:16:30] <alex_joni> on his box iirc
[21:16:39] <robin_sz> using content off this wiki?
[21:16:53] <alex_joni> http://fenn.dyndns.org/wiki/
[21:17:03] <alex_joni> dunno
[21:17:53] <robin_sz> yeah, and he seems to have forgotten to add the Creative Commons license ...
[21:18:45] <alex_joni> some pages don't feel Creative at all
[21:18:46] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Compiling_Axis_EMC2
[21:20:51] <cradek> well, you're not actually compiling anything since it's a script language, but it sure feels like it.
[21:20:56] <cradek> uh, it's also innacurate
[21:21:00] <cradek> inaccurate
[21:21:01] <jacky^> today i changed the dremel with a 600 W router and tried first cut on wood, i leave the room like a ghost in a fog, sawdust also in the ears :\
[21:21:17] <robin_sz> heh
[21:21:19] <alex_joni> cradek: feel free to feel offended ;)
[21:21:51] <robin_sz> jacky^: this is not a joke, get some dust extraction. it is NOT good for your breathing.
[21:21:55] <alex_joni> also.. might I ask you to lend me a hand on gramatic/spelling stuff?
[21:21:57] <cradek> no need for offense, but it's incorrect; there are several parts that compile.
[21:22:06] <cradek> alex_joni: me? happily
[21:22:25] <alex_joni> jacky^: also it's pretty dangerous.. fine dust dispersion might explode
[21:22:38] <robin_sz> theoreticllay, yes
[21:22:42] <jacky^> :\
[21:22:44] <robin_sz> in practice, nah
[21:22:54] <robin_sz> but for your lungs, get some extraction
[21:22:54] <alex_joni> robin_sz: probably not on saw dust
[21:23:00] <robin_sz> alex_joni: agreed
[21:23:06] <robin_sz> alex_joni: flour is good though :)
[21:23:07] <alex_joni> but on powder coat ;)
[21:23:13] <alex_joni> flour too
[21:23:17] <robin_sz> nah, poweder is non flammable
[21:23:32] <alex_joni> I've seen cases when it blew up :(
[21:23:40] <robin_sz> coo.
[21:23:48] <robin_sz> not the stuff I use ...
[21:23:48] <alex_joni> robin_sz: one for you : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Documentation
[21:24:17] <robin_sz> quite ... concise.
[21:24:36] <alex_joni> may I kindly ask you to remove that?
[21:24:38] <alex_joni> :D
[21:24:45] <robin_sz> sure .. ask away
[21:24:53] <alex_joni> or is it out of your hands?
[21:25:22] <robin_sz> gone baby ..
[21:26:01] <robin_sz> seems you are sorting this out ...
[21:26:27] <alex_joni> I'm working my way through
[21:29:43] <alex_joni_> darn.. lost link
[21:32:25] <alex_joni_> is this still on?
[21:33:03] <robin_sz> no
[21:33:11] <alex_joni_> ok then
[21:33:14] <robin_sz> :)
[21:33:16] <alex_joni_> [00:00] <robin_sz> no
[21:33:31] <robin_sz> heh
[21:34:55] <cradek> alex_joni: it sure gets late early where you are
[21:34:58] <alex_joni_> may I ask to remove another one?
[21:35:16] <alex_joni_> cradek: better than getting early late
[21:35:27] <alex_joni_> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?InstructionS
[21:36:06] <robin_sz> see priv msg
[21:36:29] <alex_joni_> think I missed that while I was disconnected
[21:36:33] <alex_joni_> notice the _
[21:36:37] <robin_sz> I just sent it again
[21:36:41] <robin_sz> ahh
[21:36:43] <alex_joni_> not to me ;)
[21:47:05] <alex_joni_> robin_sz: how do I code bullet lists?
[21:47:19] <fenn_afk> *
[21:47:26] <alex_joni_> thx fenn
[21:49:09] <fenn_afk> mwahaha the bullet code of death!
[21:49:23] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[22:26:49] <jacky^> umpf..
[22:26:51] <jacky^> hot !
[22:29:02] <alex_joni> robin_sz: still there?
[22:29:40] <robin_sz> nah :)
[22:36:50] <alex_joni> got my message?
[22:49:48] <A-L-P-H-A> http://kerneltrap.org/node/5308 <--
[23:44:27] <alex_joni> cradek: still there?