#emc | Logs for 2005-06-10

[00:00:34] <SWPadnos> PERIOD is .00024, so your max step rate is 13,888 pulses per second, but you had a max speed of 15k
[00:00:39] <SWPadnos> so there's the error :)
[00:00:55] <alpha_emc> oh
[00:01:02] <SWPadnos> (or close anyway)
[00:01:05] <SWPadnos> gotta run
[00:01:12] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[00:01:35] <alpha_emc> later SWP_Away .
[00:05:08] <jacky^> night all
[00:24:26] <A-L-P-H-A> hey... here's a thought, what would happen if say I made a container that is able to mount a jig of a vise, fill that container with coolant, and machine while the part in the container full of coolant?
[00:24:44] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe have it circulating the fluid somehow while filtering out the chips.
[00:43:11] <Jymmm> 4" of fluid. a grate at least 1" above the bottom of the container. a small submersable water fountain pump on the grate.
[00:43:42] <Jymmm> But small pumps like that can only raise fluid about 8 to 12"
[00:43:49] <Jymmm> typically
[00:45:26] <A-L-P-H-A> well, this is crap.
[00:45:43] <A-L-P-H-A> emc is making my arcs look like boomerangs.
[00:46:04] <Jymmm> leadscrew the same pitch?
[00:46:07] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[00:46:17] <Jymmm> is it consistant?
[00:46:17] <A-L-P-H-A> it's consistant though.
[00:46:26] <Jymmm> then it's a math thing
[00:46:43] <Jymmm> which direction is correct?
[00:46:48] <Jymmm> X or Y
[00:46:50] <A-L-P-H-A> i don't know.
[00:47:03] <Jymmm> ok, well how wide is the arc?
[00:47:08] <Jymmm> in the drawing
[00:47:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I was milling a pocket out, and it came out looking like a hexagon, instead of a circle.
[00:47:31] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.3" cylinderical pocket is what is to be milled out.
[00:47:38] <jepler_> huh. that was a puzzle to figure out
[00:47:55] <Jymmm> ok. is X 1.3" or is Y 1.3" ?
[00:48:03] <A-L-P-H-A> let me go measure
[00:48:09] <jepler_> under Linux, my DVDs would often stop playing after somewhere between 1 and 2 hours
[00:48:13] <jepler_> always at a particular part of the disc
[00:48:25] <jepler_> I just found out it was because another program had the DVD open without O_LARGEFILE
[00:48:31] <Jymmm> jepler_ right at the piracy projrction spot =)
[00:48:41] <Jymmm> s/j/t/
[00:48:46] <jepler_> Jymmm: no, but funny
[00:51:26] <alpha_emc> okay... it's 1.295" in one direction, and 1.30" in the other...
[00:51:50] <alpha_emc> X and Y respectively
[00:52:33] <Jymmm> ok, if you rotate the arc 90 degrees in the drawing, do you think it'll repeat on the machine?
[00:53:11] <alpha_emc> pardon?
[00:53:42] <Jymmm> is it an arc or a circle?
[00:53:47] <A-L-P-H-A> the arcs are in quadrants.. so if I'm milling a circle, I have 4 arcs to complete it.
[00:54:11] <Jymmm> but only one of the arcs is having issues?
[00:54:20] <A-L-P-H-A> no, all 4 arcs are having issues.
[00:54:26] <A-L-P-H-A> G0 and G01 movements work fine.
[00:54:37] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: in emc you can make a circle with one g2/g3
[00:55:24] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone got a good post processor for mastercam 9/9.1?
[01:05:49] <Jymmm> wow, I guess I got a great deal on my shop vac
[01:06:04] <Jymmm> compared to other ones that is
[01:35:19] <A-L-P-H-A> weyland, got any clue as to why g02/3 don't wanna make nice arcs?
[01:36:01] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: when cutting air, does an arc sound/look right?
[01:36:26] <A-L-P-H-A> cutting air sounds smooth
[01:36:34] <weyland> A-L-P-H-A: whaddya mean?
[01:36:56] <weyland> I've been doing *SHITLOADS* of them lately
[01:36:58] <A-L-P-H-A> give me a minute, and I'll photo the stuff for you.
[01:37:04] <weyland> okay
[01:38:13] <weyland> just thinking out loud here - does it plot okay?
[01:39:29] <A-L-P-H-A> with the simulator it works perfectly.
[01:39:34] <A-L-P-H-A> what doyou mean plot?
[01:39:44] <weyland> using the backplot screen
[01:40:14] <weyland> what exactly is the problem?
[01:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> getting the images off my mem card now
[01:40:44] <weyland> yeah... sure... and the check's in the mail...
[01:41:01] <bpmw> Good evening guys!
[01:41:03] <weyland> :)
[01:41:09] <weyland> hey bpmw
[01:41:39] <bpmw> Hows Things in Fla
[01:41:46] <weyland> A-L-P-H-A: I have to write some more tonight for use tomorrow
[01:41:54] <weyland> bpmw: HOT & sticky
[01:42:16] <weyland> sux
[01:42:29] <bpmw> Here cold and rainy havent seen the sun for 6 days!
[01:42:50] <weyland> yes, but it almost always cold and rainy there
[01:43:01] <bpmw> LOL
[01:43:03] <weyland> then again, it's always hot and sticky here...
[01:43:38] <weyland> it's a treat when we get some real "cold"
[01:43:38] <A-L-P-H-A> weyland, k
[01:43:43] <weyland> k
[01:43:45] <A-L-P-H-A> got uploading them.
[01:43:58] <weyland> link me~!
[01:44:21] <weyland> played with a waterjet today... gotta get me one of them bad boyz...
[01:45:16] <weyland> saved me at least 10 hours of work
[01:45:41] <bpmw> I did the upgrade as per jmk's instruction of this morn. Did config and make, and when I started emc the z axis is running amuck. and then goes "joint 2 following error" any clues?
[01:46:17] <weyland> reduce the period, I think, if I recall correctly
[01:46:47] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/emc_error/ the part and how it's messed up. it should be a perfectly round hole.
[01:47:47] <weyland> ahhhhhh
[01:47:57] <cradek> was that many passes and it did exactly the same thing every pass?
[01:47:58] <weyland> have you changed anything recently?
[01:48:09] <weyland> like done an upgrade?
[01:48:16] <A-L-P-H-A> weyland, never worked with EMC before.
[01:48:27] <weyland> have you set your backlash?
[01:48:31] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[01:48:41] <weyland> are you SURE its right?
[01:48:44] <cradek> do you have a large backlash?
[01:48:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 0.0035" =x and 0.007" for the Y.
[01:48:59] <cradek> about how big is this hole?
[01:49:06] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.3" in diameter.
[01:49:09] <weyland> looks about 3"
[01:49:14] <weyland> wow
[01:49:24] <cradek> was that many passes and it did exactly the same thing every pass?
[01:49:32] <weyland> you mean 1.3 square inches, right?
[01:49:34] <weyland> lol
[01:49:35] <A-L-P-H-A> many passes, same thing each time.
[01:49:36] <weyland> just kidding
[01:49:39] <cradek> wow
[01:49:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.3" in diamter.
[01:49:47] <cradek> it looks like hell, doesn't it
[01:49:51] <weyland> yeah, but that's a square
[01:49:54] <weyland> :)
[01:50:00] <A-L-P-H-A> it's taking a 1/8" doc.
[01:50:05] <bpmw> I cut some 0.140 holes with a 0.125 bit the other night turnen out great!
[01:50:07] <weyland> trying to imitate a diameter
[01:50:27] <weyland> are you SURE your arcs are programmed right?
[01:50:43] <weyland> shoot me the code if you want
[01:51:01] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/emc_error/IMGP0310.JPG <-- that is hell.
[01:51:23] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298144
[01:51:23] <cradek> let me see your program too - I'll load it in axis.
[01:52:11] <A-L-P-H-A> it's from line 1 to line 127 that's important.
[01:52:49] <A-L-P-H-A> shoot, that's an old one.
[01:52:50] <weyland> holy crap, that's a lot of code for a little hole...
[01:52:50] <A-L-P-H-A> sec
[01:53:19] <A-L-P-H-A> weyland, I'm doing it as 1/8" doc for each layer, and then doing a finish pass.
[01:53:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using a 1/2" endmill as well.
[01:54:24] <weyland> hmmmmmmm
[01:54:34] <weyland> leem read a bit
[01:54:35] <cradek> looks round to me.
[01:54:36] <weyland> lemme
[01:54:44] <cradek> the M98 are errors though
[01:54:46] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298146
[01:54:54] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298146 <-- fixed the m98 m99 errors.
[01:55:30] <A-L-P-H-A> on line 295 I change tools. from an 1/2" endmill to a 3/16" endmill
[01:56:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll go and post my generic.ini file as well.
[01:56:26] <weyland> I don't see anything glaring...
[01:56:34] <cradek> yeah, the program looks fine
[01:57:24] <alpha_emc> http://pastebin.com/298148
[01:57:31] <alpha_emc> that's the generic.ini file I'm using
[01:57:54] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/alpha
[01:58:22] <A-L-P-H-A> cool... but the machine isn't doing that.
[01:58:43] <weyland> bpmw: crap, that reminds me - the value is MIN_FERROR, not period
[01:59:06] <weyland> A-L-P-H-A: looks okay, but I could be missing something
[01:59:31] <weyland> if it was me, I'd trim the program way down, and try it using other methods
[01:59:37] <weyland> just to see if it made a difference
[01:59:43] <weyland> and if you're dealing with a bug
[01:59:52] <A-L-P-H-A> well... what should I do then?
[01:59:55] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: do you understand the capabilities of your machine well, and you're cutting within them?
[02:00:08] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, that _same_ code works in turboCNC 4.01
[02:00:16] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: aha
[02:00:28] <cradek> sorry, not sure how to ask that without being offensive, but that answers my question
[02:00:32] <A-L-P-H-A> it just plotted/sim'd fine too.
[02:01:31] <weyland> If it were me, I'd try trimming the arcs down to just a few lines of command
[02:01:33] <cradek> was it you who was getting following errors earlier?
[02:01:45] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, I didn't write turbocnc. :) so you won't offend me.
[02:02:01] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, yeah. on G00 moves.
[02:02:01] <weyland> I'd try it your way, and then change to I & J values as well, jsut for testing
[02:02:17] <weyland> hmmmmm
[02:02:29] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I suspect you have them here too, but you don't trigger the error condition until it's an entire inch off (FERROR = 1.000)
[02:02:46] <weyland> I wonder...
[02:02:59] <weyland> cradek: how would he fix those?
[02:03:09] <weyland> just what CAUSES them?
[02:03:21] <A-L-P-H-A> oh wow.
[02:03:45] <cradek> let me compare our inis
[02:03:46] <weyland> oph crap, never mind I see what you're talking about now
[02:03:56] <cradek> ?
[02:03:56] <cradek> me?
[02:03:58] <weyland> yeah
[02:04:02] <weyland> in the ini
[02:04:08] <bpmw> weyland i have Ferror set at 0.050 and minFerror set at 0.010!
[02:04:22] <A-L-P-H-A> yikes.
[02:04:26] <weyland> bpmw: I had to raise mine to .020
[02:04:36] <weyland> minferror, that is
[02:04:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight, so set Ferror to something lower
[02:05:26] <cradek> it'll error.
[02:05:37] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I have TASK CYCLE_TIME .0024 vs your .01
[02:05:45] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: try changing that
[02:06:08] <A-L-P-H-A> in [traj]?
[02:06:13] <cradek> TASK
[02:06:31] <cradek> oh and also TRAJ
[02:07:05] <cradek> yeah set them both to .0024
[02:07:14] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, what would happen if you just sent me your generic.ini file, and I just change the out/input scale for the 3 axises?
[02:07:36] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I have other hacks in mine that are specific to my cradek_stable branch of emc1
[02:07:39] <weyland> we'd call you lazy
[02:07:43] <weyland> :)
[02:08:09] <cradek> in AXIS_* set CYCLE_TIME .00024
[02:08:27] <cradek> notice all these nice factors of 10 based off PERIOD
[02:08:51] <cradek> AXIS_* CYCLE_TIME = PERIOD * 10; TRAJ CYCLE_TIME = PERIOD * 100
[02:10:07] <bpmw> ok Ill give that a try
[02:11:14] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, was that to me or bpmw?
[02:11:19] <cradek> to you
[02:11:40] <A-L-P-H-A> this is what I'm about to test.
[02:11:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298154
[02:12:36] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, should I change the Ferror to something else as well?
[02:12:50] <cradek> if you set it smaller you will see the error while cutting air...
[02:13:16] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, that last statement I don't really understand.
[02:13:17] <bpmw> weyland, that didn't do it. z azis still running wild.
[02:13:33] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: you will immediately get following errors if it's still not working right
[02:13:43] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek :) ahh. good.
[02:13:54] <A-L-P-H-A> so I'll change it to something small. 0.010?
[02:13:56] <cradek> try FERROR .050 and MIN_FERROR .010
[02:14:01] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[02:14:02] <weyland> bpmw: what do you mean exactly?
[02:14:14] <weyland> bpmw: "running wild"?
[02:14:48] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298157
[02:15:49] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: looks good
[02:16:42] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: are you using microstepping? I see your SCALE is very high
[02:16:56] <alpha_emc> cradek, G201... 10x microstepping
[02:16:58] <cradek> I'm afraid your PERIOD is not small enough for such a large scale
[02:17:15] <alpha_emc> recommendations?
[02:17:16] <cradek> alpha_emc: can you switch to 2 or 4x?
[02:17:19] <weyland> cradek: yeah I was gonna comment on that
[02:17:28] <alpha_emc> that I don't know if I can.
[02:17:31] <cradek> I haven't done the math but it looks like your max vel will be really small
[02:17:52] <cradek> turning your HOLD_TIMEs down to 1 might help
[02:18:04] <cradek> I don't know how much time a gecko needs
[02:18:10] <bpmw> Where did everyone go?
[02:18:18] <weyland> we're hiding
[02:18:18] <cradek> bpmw: ??
[02:18:19] <alpha_emc> YUP... I'm getting following errors
[02:18:22] <weyland> shhhhhhh
[02:18:41] <cradek> alpha_emc: good
[02:19:14] <cradek> alpha_emc: it would really help if you could reduce your microstepping
[02:19:15] <alpha_emc> good? that's bad I want nice perfect arcs so I can machine 4 of these units for tomorrow afternoon
[02:19:28] <alpha_emc> k, let me figure out if I can.
[02:19:35] <cradek> it's good that you don't have to waste material and time to find out it's still not right
[02:19:59] <weyland> or you could do like me and use scrap 2x4's
[02:20:00] <weyland> :)
[02:20:43] <bpmw> Weyland, When i open Tkemc the z axis display is running through numbers!
[02:20:59] <weyland> is the actual quill moving?
[02:21:07] <cradek> bpmw: is it hovering around a certain number?
[02:21:30] <weyland> and is the motor actually moving
[02:21:41] <bpmw> no computer is still in basement machine in garage!
[02:21:58] <weyland> Ohhhhh.......
[02:22:05] <alpha_emc> cradek, I don't think I can.
[02:22:07] <weyland> you're just testing...?
[02:22:09] <bpmw> I was just checking out new install
[02:22:14] <weyland> okay
[02:22:16] <cradek> alpha_emc: darn
[02:22:27] <cradek> alpha_emc: is your machine pretty fast?
[02:22:34] <alpha_emc> cradek, 700mHz.
[02:22:37] <weyland> is it honvering around a certain number, like cradek asked?
[02:22:40] <alpha_emc> Duron
[02:22:46] <alpha_emc> I can switch it up to a faster machine...
[02:22:57] <cradek> alpha_emc: you might have to, to get the vel you want
[02:23:07] <cradek> alpha_emc: cut your max vel in half and see if you still get errors
[02:23:13] <alpha_emc> cradek, all I'm asking for is 40ipm.
[02:23:17] <alpha_emc> k
[02:23:18] <bpmw> This happens as soon as Tkemc starts, e-stop still on and machine off.
[02:23:43] <weyland> alpha_emc: all I can get is 30IPM
[02:23:56] <alpha_emc> I'll be happy with really, 25ipm.
[02:24:46] <weyland> bpmw: yeah, try setting everything, and then using the home button on the Z axis
[02:25:32] <bpmw> Trying to home gets "joint 2 following error"
[02:26:45] <alpha_emc> cradek. weyland, what's your computer system?
[02:27:05] <cradek> alpha_emc: about 2GHz
[02:27:43] <alpha_emc> hmm... I've got a 1.4 somewhere where I think I can pull to make work.
[02:28:17] <alpha_emc> still getting following errors.
[02:28:35] <cradek> alpha_emc: on g1 or g0?
[02:28:43] <bpmw> Ok that time it homed (turned green) but is still running through numbers only the 0.001's and 0.0001's.
[02:28:53] <weyland> alpha_emc: mine's a 1.8, I believe...
[02:29:02] <alpha_emc> intels?
[02:29:06] <cradek> bpmw: set your DEADBAND for the axis to 70% of the distance moved in one step
[02:29:20] <cradek> model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
[02:29:23] <cradek> cpu MHz : 2001.032
[02:29:44] <weyland> no, mine is an Athlon
[02:29:54] <bpmw> I'm on emc2 no deadband.
[02:30:24] <alpha_emc> shit... I've got and XP 2800... as my workstation.
[02:30:26] <cradek> bpmw: complain to jmk about it then - it might be a bug?
[02:30:26] <alpha_emc> ARGH!!!!!
[02:30:43] <cradek> alpha_emc: let me send you my ini.
[02:30:48] <bpmw> Ok, Thanks.
[02:31:03] <weyland> boyz, I gotta go for a little while, b baq l8r
[02:31:53] <cradek> alpha_emc: http://pastebin.com/298174
[02:32:44] <cradek> change axis to tkemc, TASK/EMCIO to minimill, and all the INDEXes to positive numbers
[02:32:57] <bpmw> I'll tried the .ini that came with the upgrade, and it works fine. Only mine won't.
[02:33:19] <cradek> alpha_emc: I think those should be the only changes you need to make except SCALEs
[02:34:06] <cradek> alpha_emc: maybe you should even try it at MY scale first
[02:34:16] <cradek> it will just cut a little small
[02:34:49] <bpmw> I only made a few changes , pertinent to my machine.
[02:35:29] <Alpha1125> cradek, think I should just make an atmel/pic that converts 1pulse to like 5 pulses?
[02:35:43] <cradek> Alpha1125: I can't keep up with your name changes!
[02:35:51] <Alpha1125> Alpha1125 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[02:35:57] <cradek> Alpha1125: but, no, I don't think you should do that :-)
[02:35:58] <A-L-P-H-A> this got booted for somereason
[02:36:34] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight
[02:36:44] <cradek> if my numbers work, I think you should try increasing the scale AND decreasing the PERIODS proportionally
[02:37:16] <cradek> if your machine can't do that, decrease maxvel proportionally instead
[02:37:30] <A-L-P-H-A> let me try something else.
[02:42:33] <alpha_emc> k, time to try yours.
[02:47:24] <cradek> if mine works and you're desperate to make your parts, you could even scale your g-code UP 128/80 or whatever it is
[02:49:31] <alpha_emc> yeah, yours seems to be working.
[02:49:40] <cradek> that's good at least
[02:49:51] <alpha_emc> well. there's no follow errors so far.
[02:50:25] <cradek> although I guess my FERROR is also 1
[02:50:34] <cradek> but, I *know* my setup works right
[02:51:36] <cradek> alpha_emc: you should save this working ini just in case, and then increase SCALE and decrease PERIOD and CYCLE_TIMEs proportionally. If your machine is fast enough to deal with the smaller PERIOD, you'll be done.
[02:51:50] <alpha_emc> well... I do have my P4-m laptop, which I can dump the BDI onto.
[02:52:13] <cradek> sometimes, laptops work badly because of APM stuff
[02:52:31] <alpha_emc> Advanced Power Management?
[02:52:37] <cradek> yeah
[02:52:45] <alpha_emc> couldn't I just disable them?
[02:52:55] <cradek> but, like I said above, if you just need to make parts, you can scale up your g-code and use my ini.
[02:52:56] <alpha_emc> _shrug_
[02:53:17] <alpha_emc> I'll tinker with the scales, while I install the BDI on the laptop.
[02:53:48] <cradek> ok, I have to go, but I'll glance back later to see your report
[02:54:32] <bpmw> Good night!
[02:54:41] <cradek> g'night
[02:55:41] <A-L-P-H-A> later
[02:58:52] <cradek> actually, I guess I'm back
[02:59:35] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[03:00:23] <fenn> that's a pretty busted looking circle, alpha
[03:00:44] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks fenn.
[03:00:45] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[03:01:54] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... pastebin is down.
[03:01:57] <A-L-P-H-A> ARGH!!!!
[03:02:14] <fenn> cackle
[03:03:41] <cradek> yep, looks pretty down.
[03:03:45] <Jymmm> wb cradek
[03:04:04] <cradek> ?
[03:04:12] <Jymmm> <cradek> actually, I guess I'm back
[03:04:25] <fenn> alpha are you using cutter compensation?
[03:04:26] <A-L-P-H-A> ; Base task period, in seconds
[03:04:26] <A-L-P-H-A> ; Don't use this if steppermod is being loaded.
[03:04:26] <A-L-P-H-A> PERIOD = 0.000024
[03:04:29] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, no.
[03:04:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A http://hashphp.org/pastebin or http://cpp.sourceforge.net
[03:04:52] <A-L-P-H-A> oh I'm using freqmond.
[03:04:52] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[03:06:23] <bpmw> AHAH I figured it out!!
[03:07:02] <fenn> please share
[03:07:18] <bpmw> The new update of emc2 doesn't like - input scales.
[03:08:11] <bpmw> as soon as i made it positive it worked!
[03:08:24] <fenn> does it go the right direction though?
[03:09:19] <A-L-P-H-A> 8000:0.000024 <-> 12800:X therefore X = 0.0000384 period?
[03:09:20] <Jymmm> fenn (no, left)
[03:09:22] <A-L-P-H-A> that's BIGGER.
[03:09:23] <bpmw> That I don't know yet still have to take puter to machine.
[03:09:27] <A-L-P-H-A> oh wait.
[03:09:33] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: no, the other way
[03:09:46] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: .000024 * 80 / 128
[03:10:02] <cradek> .000015
[03:10:10] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[03:10:25] <cradek> also make the others .00015, .0015 appropriately
[03:10:35] <cradek> then, type sync before you run emc :-)
[03:10:59] <A-L-P-H-A> what's sync?
[03:11:13] <cradek> write the buffers to disk and prepare for the machine to crash
[03:11:25] <Jymmm> lol
[03:11:32] <A-L-P-H-A> The inverse of 0.000015 is 66khz.
[03:11:41] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands the fire extinguisher to A-L-P-H-A
[03:11:43] <A-L-P-H-A> my lowly computer can't do that.
[03:12:05] <fenn> hmm my pentium 2 is set to .000015
[03:12:22] <A-L-P-H-A> for real?
[03:12:22] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: it was already doing 42, maybe it can do 67, who knows
[03:12:39] <A-L-P-H-A> 42ipm?
[03:13:05] <A-L-P-H-A> well... lets see what happens.
[03:13:20] <cradek> no, 42kHz
[03:13:52] <bpmw> cradek, what mill are you talking about running?
[03:14:04] <fenn> why are you guys playing around with period when it's doing geometry errors?
[03:14:07] <cradek> you mean my mill or alpha's?
[03:14:16] <bpmw> Yours
[03:14:37] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc
[03:14:58] <bpmw> I'll take a look see.
[03:15:14] <A-L-P-H-A> so modify task->cycle_time, period, traj->cycle_time, axis_X->[cycle_time, input/output scales], emcio->cycle_time
[03:15:28] <cradek> yes, that's what I think you should try
[03:15:45] <cradek> did you cut with it unmodified first to make sure you get round arcs?
[03:15:49] <cradek> (I'm pretty sure you will)
[03:17:19] <alpha_emc> hmm.
[03:17:24] <alpha_emc> lets see what will happen now.
[03:17:27] <jepler_> 'night al
[03:17:28] <jepler_> l
[03:17:30] <alpha_emc> later
[03:17:31] <bpmw> cradek, its cute
[03:17:34] <cradek> g'night jepler
[03:17:51] <alpha_emc> bpmw, calling a man's tool cute? you're an evil man.
[03:17:58] <cradek> bpmw: thanks, I like it - I think it's good for what it is.
[03:18:00] <bpmw> LOL
[03:18:46] <cradek> I think the zero backlash setup is a clever hack
[03:19:01] <cradek> it actually works great (for low load like circuit boards)
[03:19:38] <bpmw> I worked as a universal GSM programmer and operator for 3 years populating PCB's.
[03:20:10] <bpmw> I agree with you there very clever!
[03:21:14] <bpmw> Did you make all your own stepper drives?
[03:21:20] <cradek> yes
[03:21:37] <A-L-P-H-A> no good
[03:21:40] <cradek> in the top photo you can see the box behind the machine, to the side of the monitor
[03:21:46] <A-L-P-H-A> computer locked up, before the gui could even come up
[03:21:54] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: darn!
[03:22:19] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: I guess put PERIOD and CYCLE_TIME back, and reduce the max velocity proportionally instead
[03:22:40] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: it'll be pretty slow, but it should work until you get a faster machine set up
[03:23:04] <A-L-P-H-A> laptop is being installed right now... another 15 minutes, and BDI 4.20 will be up.
[03:23:06] <bpmw> cradek, how may amps can they output? and how many volts in?
[03:23:12] <cradek> bpmw: that's an old UPS case, very heavy metal
[03:23:28] <cradek> bpmw: PS is 40V regulated
[03:23:58] <cradek> bpmw: the drivers can supply up to 4A
[03:24:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 8 minutes.
[03:24:52] <bpmw> Cool, I have a -14v 6amp Sperry Radar power supply that weighs in around 60lbs.
[03:25:14] <cradek> bpmw: ESTOP from EMC enables/disables the choppers, and spindle forward g-code turns on the outlet on the back of the UPS to run the spindle motor
[03:25:27] <cradek> ... the ex-UPS
[03:25:41] <bpmw> Are you selling them?
[03:25:46] <cradek> haha no way
[03:25:51] <cradek> way too much work to build
[03:26:14] <cradek> it all runs on one parallel port, which is really nice
[03:26:14] <Jymmm> cradek you know you have 50,000 units in storage =)
[03:26:31] <bpmw> What about selling the prints?
[03:26:51] <Jymmm> cradek : What did you use to interface estop to the outlet?
[03:26:53] <cradek> you obviously didn't read the web page!
[03:27:16] <cradek> Jymmm: no, ESTOP turns the choppers on and off. The spindle forward bit controls the outlet
[03:27:26] <bpmw> not really im a picture viewer:)
[03:27:52] <Jymmm> fwd bit?
[03:27:57] <cradek> right
[03:28:03] <bpmw> HAng on I'll check it out!
[03:28:09] <Jymmm> on fed/rev
[03:28:11] <Jymmm> oh
[03:28:15] <Jymmm> fwd/rev
[03:28:27] <cradek> I think there's a bit for fwd and a bit for reverse, I only use the fwd bit
[03:28:49] <Jymmm> cradek : I didn't realize emc had that.
[03:29:18] <cradek> yeah it has a bunch of digital outputs for spindle, brake, coolant, etc
[03:29:20] <cradek> estop
[03:29:35] <Jymmm> cradek ok, so what hw does that bit talk to?
[03:29:48] <cradek> just a transistor amplifier that operates a relay
[03:29:57] <Jymmm> 2n222 ?
[03:30:09] <cradek> actually there's some buffering (schmitt trigger) then a power transistor, then the relay
[03:30:15] <cradek> no, much bigger than 2n2222
[03:30:30] <cradek> it operates a relay that can pass > 15A because it's running an outlet
[03:30:44] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'd liek to do the dame thing.
[03:30:51] <Jymmm> same thing
[03:30:52] <cradek> it's probably a TIP120, I don't remember
[03:31:55] <Jymmm> Probably the least of my worries... I still need to figure out how to get a tapping head and drill motor (fwd/rev) on the machien.
[03:32:28] <cradek> I just tap by hand...
[03:32:37] <Jymmm> 100 holes?
[03:32:58] <cradek> how deep? it would probably only take a couple hours
[03:33:00] <A-L-P-H-A> any program out there to know how fast a parallel port can run in BDI4.20?
[03:33:17] <bpmw> I wrote down the pminmo address to check out later.
[03:33:19] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: pretty darn fast
[03:33:38] <Jymmm> cradek no freaking way... I'd rather let the machien do it.
[03:33:55] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: the parallel port is not the bottleneck
[03:34:39] <bpmw> Well I guess its time to unplug computer and take out to machine. See ya guys later!!!
[03:35:09] <Jymmm> hasta
[03:37:01] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: the G201 manual says you can order option G901 to make it selectable 2-5-10 microstep
[03:37:35] <cradek> ouch, $39 each
[03:37:46] <cradek> but, still much less than a new computer
[03:38:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I have new computers.
[03:38:27] <A-L-P-H-A> newer
[03:38:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm wondering what Parallel port mode I should be in?
[03:38:48] <A-L-P-H-A> latop I think is almost done installing.
[03:38:50] <cradek> EPP
[03:38:53] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[03:43:56] <Jymmm> oh man, missed 'Good Eats'
[04:11:33] <bpmw_> Good news latest update seems to work fine except for the -input scale thing. I'll just have to move two wires on stepper drive to fix.
[04:12:33] <bpmw_> alpha, did you get your problem sorted out?
[04:14:49] <bpmw_> Ok, good night all!!
[04:18:36] <A-L-P-H-A> nope.
[04:25:54] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek... looks like my laptop is the machine to use for the time being.
[05:03:42] <A-L-P-H-A> that was fun
[05:03:52] <A-L-P-H-A> so now I'm running at 15ipm. but at least it runs.
[05:03:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it does anyways.
[05:05:42] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, thanks for all the help
[05:31:11] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Well, it'll get you goin and you can tweek it later
[06:07:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I dunno if I can tweak it any faster.
[06:07:06] <A-L-P-H-A> it's kinda pissing me off. LOTS!
[06:23:45] <Jymmm> they said to try a faster PC
[06:23:56] <Jymmm> didn't they?
[06:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I tried a pentium 4-m laptop already
[06:26:58] <A-L-P-H-A> my workstation isn't much better than cradek's emc system.
[06:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 02:25:35 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (0% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 697/1024MB (68.07%), C: 41.35gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 12.51gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 1day 14hrs 9mins 31secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[06:27:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm faster by like 123mHz only.
[06:27:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to get a half step multiplier.. so I can convert 2 to 1 or something like that, and I can increase steps easily that way.
[06:28:02] <A-L-P-H-A> steps=speed
[06:28:13] <A-L-P-H-A> so an atmel chip, take ever pulse, and pump out two.
[06:28:15] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What happens when you try to get past 15ipm?
[06:28:23] <A-L-P-H-A> Bad Things (tm).
[06:28:28] <A-L-P-H-A> "Following error"
[06:28:52] <A-L-P-H-A> well... I haven't tried pushing it up higher... I was just scaling cradek's speeds to use on my system.
[06:29:02] <Phydbleep> So the port cant keep up with the motor movement demands?
[06:29:06] <A-L-P-H-A> someone said they were using a period of 0.000015 seconds. Who was that?
[06:29:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, it can't. or supposedly can't.
[06:29:57] <Phydbleep> What's the port mode set to in the bios?
[06:30:08] <A-L-P-H-A> EPP right now.
[06:30:31] <A-L-P-H-A> though the KB isn't working properly now... [not in X/KDE, but fine in shell] I don't know how that got messed.
[06:30:42] <Phydbleep> Anything else on irq7?
[06:31:06] <Jymmm> * Jymmm bets there's a shitload on IRQ10 =)
[06:31:43] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, I don't know. maybe.
[06:31:55] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno. maybe again.
[06:32:35] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Turn off sound, serial ports, any onboard crap you dont need on a emc box.
[06:32:53] <A-L-P-H-A> alright. I'll that that.
[06:33:03] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe after a nap
[06:33:14] <Jymmm> heh.... kill inetd =)
[06:33:17] <A-L-P-H-A> should I rip the NIC out as well?
[06:33:31] <Jymmm> ps -aux
[06:33:35] <Jymmm> err
[06:33:37] <Phydbleep> Not if you want to use it. :)
[06:33:37] <Jymmm> ps aux
[06:33:58] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A run ps aux and paste it here
[06:34:08] <A-L-P-H-A> k, let me turn on that machine
[06:34:31] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Tell it it has nice slots. :)
[06:48:34] <A-L-P-H-A> crap
[06:48:38] <A-L-P-H-A> the kb still isn't working.
[06:48:43] <A-L-P-H-A> though the mouse works perfectly
[06:48:57] <Jymmm> cant shell into it?
[06:49:30] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.com/298233
[06:49:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I have. ssh is my friend
[06:50:37] <A-L-P-H-A> looks like lotsa junk
[06:51:18] <Jymmm> are you printing from it?
[06:51:21] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[06:51:21] <Jymmm> I see cups
[06:51:25] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I remove cups?
[06:51:44] <Jymmm> your using a JFS (i think)
[06:52:21] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: /sbin/service cups stop
[06:52:45] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: USB KB?
[06:52:56] <A-L-P-H-A> no. ps2 kb
[06:53:06] <Jymmm> I have nfc what usr/sbin/cannase or usr/sbin/lisa is
[06:53:21] <A-L-P-H-A> neither do I.
[06:53:26] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, that didn't work
[06:53:47] <Jymmm> posdtfix - you gonna email from this machien?
[06:53:51] <Jymmm> postfix
[06:53:52] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[06:53:59] <A-L-P-H-A> just browse the web, and irc.
[06:54:43] <Jymmm> and the user postfix has a couple thigns goin too
[06:55:06] <Jymmm> bind is running as well
[06:55:16] <A-L-P-H-A> where do I go and remove all that junk?
[06:56:27] <Jymmm> cups is pretty obvous what it's for, I'm not sure if anything else has a purpose or not.
[06:56:38] <Jymmm> Usually when I want to remove somethign I use apt
[06:56:45] <A-L-P-H-A> "apt-get remove cups" doesn't work... says it's not installed.
[06:56:48] <A-L-P-H-A> though it iS!
[06:57:09] <Jymmm> maybe it wasn't installed via a pkg
[06:58:46] <Phydbleep> 'rpm -e cups'
[06:58:53] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, can you post your XF86Config file?
[06:59:04] <Jymmm> I dont run X
[06:59:56] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep?
[07:00:48] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, didn't work.
[07:00:57] <Phydbleep> Only got Fedora boxes running at the moment.
[07:01:18] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Then I'd try SPP if emc will run with it.
[07:02:00] <A-L-P-H-A> spp?
[07:02:40] <fenn> cannase=chinese character input
[07:03:28] <fenn> apt-get remove cups-libs
[07:03:50] <fenn> i was the one with the .000016 period
[07:04:11] <fenn> my computer is a total piece of junk.. maybe your computer is too fancy
[07:04:51] <A-L-P-H-A> apt-get remove cups* does a shit load
[07:05:44] <A-L-P-H-A> shit it was cupsys
[07:05:55] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: SPP is the old Standard Parallel Port mode.. Uni-Directional.
[07:06:14] <fenn> why would you do that phydbleeP?
[07:07:15] <Phydbleep> Some of the cheaper parallel port chips use 2 cycles to process in EPP/ECP modes and only 1 cycle in SPP.
[07:07:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I just fucked up my system.
[07:07:26] <A-L-P-H-A> hahaha. GREAT!
[07:07:28] <A-L-P-H-A> awesome.
[07:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[07:07:31] <A-L-P-H-A> fack.
[07:07:37] <A-L-P-H-A> reinstall.
[07:07:40] <A-L-P-H-A> horray.
[07:07:47] <fenn> what now?
[07:07:58] <A-L-P-H-A> apt-get remove cups* and I said yes.
[07:08:10] <A-L-P-H-A> lots of shit was removed... including KDE. and it's dependences.
[07:08:19] <fenn> heh yeah reinstall for sure
[07:08:19] <A-L-P-H-A> Plus my KB is fucked up.
[07:08:29] <ValarQ> ow
[07:08:55] <fenn> apt-get removes dependencies? weird
[07:11:21] <fenn> aww apt-get remove cups* only gets rid of dumb shit i hate anyway
[07:13:37] <Jymmm> how can a PS2 kybd screw up unless it's physically broken
[07:14:08] <Jymmm> Heh, I've been using this PS2 kybd for almost 15 years
[07:15:46] <Jymmm> err almost 10 years that is
[07:16:31] <A-L-P-H-A> it works fine in the CLI.
[07:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> just not under X/kde.
[07:16:43] <A-L-P-H-A> it's installing now.
[07:16:44] <A-L-P-H-A> horry
[07:16:47] <A-L-P-H-A> horray
[07:17:44] <Jymmm> does it give you the option to setup X?
[07:17:53] <Jymmm> or configure I mean
[07:19:19] <Jymmm> A PS2 kybd should be rock solid in respect to configuration.
[07:19:27] <Jymmm> more of a no brainer
[07:20:06] <Jymmm> well, good luck. I'm outta here! G'Night Folks!
[07:20:07] <A-L-P-H-A> PS2 pc/104 kb.
[07:20:10] <A-L-P-H-A> later
[07:20:22] <Jymmm> 104?
[07:20:29] <A-L-P-H-A> windows keys
[07:20:39] <Jymmm> oh, you must have that windows shit
[07:21:07] <Jymmm> ok, hasta
[09:32:57] <fenn> bleah
[09:57:42] <fenn> whew finally got that wiki copied over
[09:58:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep yells "WOOHOO!" and digs for the url again.
[09:59:44] <Phydbleep> http://www.relays.shopeio.com/inventory/details.asp?id=733&cat=Relays&sub=
[10:00:18] <Phydbleep> CRYDOM Solid State Relay 40A 240V USD$10
[10:00:42] <Phydbleep> fenn: You wanted cheap spindle control?
[10:02:11] <fenn> wow $10
[10:02:56] <fenn> no datasheets!?
[10:04:58] <fenn> 40A@240V is quite a lot..
[10:05:24] <fenn> 9KW?
[10:06:04] <Phydbleep> fenn: You need a datasheet for a 4-wire device?
[10:06:31] <fenn> i wanted to know the switching speed
[10:07:01] <fenn> they have $15 laser tubes
[10:07:52] <Phydbleep> http://www.crydom.com/userResources/productFamilies/34/crydom_dual.pdf
[10:08:08] <Phydbleep> There's the datasheet for the dual model.
[10:08:55] <Phydbleep> 1/2 cycle on/off switching time.
[10:10:55] <fenn> ah yes.. this is an SCR right
[10:11:43] <fenn> or something like that
[10:14:10] <Phydbleep> Works fine to turn a motor on and off. :)
[10:15:26] <Phydbleep> I've built color organ light controllers with 3 of those, a tunable passive crossover and a mono amp to give it some "Ooomph!" :)
[10:16:05] <fenn> you have an electric organ with effects lights on it?
[10:17:12] <Phydbleep> Color organ.. Plug it into an audio source and it responds to the sounds by lighting light bulbs.
[10:17:57] <Phydbleep> Or you can put a mic on it and let it respond to room noises.
[10:19:17] <Phydbleep> fenn: It's a basicly useless comsumer electronics item.. Otherwise known as a "Trip Toy".. :)
[10:19:33] <fenn> i love useless consumer electronics!
[10:21:13] <Phydbleep> QUICK! Go buy an iPod. :)
[10:22:38] <fenn> my roomate just got a mp3 player/recorder.. it's 7/8"x7/8"x2" and has an AM/FM radio, headphones out, mic, EL LCD display, and runs on ONE double A battery
[10:22:56] <fenn> and line in
[10:23:08] <fenn> i dont know how they managed to squeeze all the buttons on it
[10:28:39] <Phydbleep> Hmmm Time for me to fall over and sleep so when I wake up I can run the power saw without pissing off the neighbors.
[10:28:57] <fenn> bastards
[10:29:03] <fenn> me too
[10:57:22] <CIA-12> 03paul_c 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/ (motion/emcstepper.c rs274ngc/interp_find.cc): Bug fix to Interp::find_ends - Tool offsets incorrectly applied to C
[10:57:46] <CIA-12> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (interp_find.cc rs274ngc_pre.cc): Bug fix to Interp::find_ends - Tool offsets incorrectly applied to C
[12:01:26] <alex_joni> greeeetings
[12:02:37] <ValarQ> 'lo
[12:02:50] <alex_joni> how'scrap?
[12:02:57] <alex_joni> how's crap?
[12:02:59] <alex_joni> :D
[12:04:29] <ValarQ> pretty ok :)
[12:04:40] <alex_joni> nice
[12:05:07] <alex_joni> still annoyed by that halcmd display?
[12:05:20] <alex_joni> I could take that out
[12:05:31] <ValarQ> nah, i can work around it
[12:05:39] <alex_joni> ok
[12:05:51] <alex_joni> then maybe the "bug" is not really appropiate
[12:06:08] <alex_joni> fenn filed a bug-report for that
[12:06:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't think that is a bug...
[12:06:19] <ValarQ> i think i got to fix some automatic positioning function...
[12:06:49] <ValarQ> i guess for a human 1 (01) could be one value
[12:07:17] <ValarQ> but for a program that reads it in a space separated table... :/
[12:07:55] <ValarQ> the unix way would be to try and make it easy for both humans and machines
[12:08:19] <ValarQ> doesn't make it a bug thought
[12:10:40] <cradek> you'd think we would all agree that hex numbers are displayed with a leading 0x
[12:10:55] <alex_joni> hey chris
[12:10:55] <cradek> a leading 0 makes it octal
[12:10:57] <cradek> () mean nothing
[12:11:01] <cradek> hello
[12:11:08] <cradek> how's your machine?
[12:11:27] <alex_joni> which one?
[12:11:28] <alex_joni> ;)
[12:11:45] <cradek> nothing
[12:11:54] <cradek> I'm confused easily this early
[12:12:08] <cradek> alex ~= alpha
[12:12:12] <alex_joni> kinda
[12:12:14] <alex_joni> ;)
[12:12:31] <ValarQ> cradek: yeah, that would be the bug
[12:12:37] <alex_joni> but at least I don't spell my name with C-A-P-I-T-A-L-S
[12:12:43] <alex_joni> *g*
[12:12:58] <cradek> he had half a dozen names last night - some capitals, some not
[12:13:18] <cradek> ValarQ: I'm tempted to agree with you that it's a bug
[12:13:34] <alex_joni> cradek: seems the dxf you produced from the stl is consistent
[12:13:35] <cradek> ValarQ: if nothing else, it's "silly" to display numbers in such a nonstandard way
[12:13:44] <cradek> alex_joni: that's good to hear
[12:13:48] <alex_joni> I managed to look at the STL, and it's the same stuff
[12:13:57] <alex_joni> still broken.. but consistent ;)
[12:14:08] <alex_joni> the program I used to export it didn't work properly
[12:14:16] <cradek> alex_joni: I see
[12:14:33] <cradek> alex_joni: I'll remove all the hedging from my web page then
[12:14:59] <alex_joni> it doesn't work for binary stl's (you might want to mention that)
[12:15:10] <cradek> I did mention that too
[12:15:19] <alex_joni> hmmm.. might have missed it ;)
[12:15:44] <cradek> ok, hedging removed
[12:32:54] <jacky^> hi
[12:33:36] <alex_joni> ello
[12:33:46] <jacky^> hi alex_joni :)
[12:38:07] <jacky^> anyone know if the 4N32 or 4N33 ic's can be used to protect parallel port ?
[12:47:17] <jepler> I wouldn't be surprised if some parallel ports have trouble providing 120mA current (12 output pins times 10 mA)
[12:48:43] <alex_joni> mostly laptop ones
[12:52:59] <jepler> according to the internet, you might source as little as 2.6mA which looks a little on the low side for the 4N32 datasheet I was reading
[12:53:16] <jacky^> hi jepler
[12:53:54] <jepler> hello
[12:54:10] <jacky^> also the 4n32-33 seem to me are slow
[12:54:21] <jepler> especially at low LED currents
[12:54:44] <jacky^> rigth, thanks
[12:55:35] <jepler> I suspect you'll end up needing an external power supply to do opto-isolation
[12:56:03] <jacky^> maybe..
[12:56:39] <jacky^> i'll by toshiba tpl optocoupler ic
[12:56:40] <alex_joni> plug it into mains
[12:57:05] <jacky^> as suggested to me by someone
[12:58:59] <jacky^> should be better
[13:00:23] <jacky^> i will use these 4n32-3 that already have for some other circuit
[13:20:46] <jacky^> * jacky^ ufff
[13:29:23] <jacky^> qui
[13:57:25] <paul_c> Morning Steve
[13:57:39] <steve_stallings> that was fast!
[13:57:56] <paul_c> waddya mean - You had 8 seconds.
[13:58:04] <steve_stallings> my coffee hasn't hit yet
[14:00:50] <paul_c> lemme know when you've woken up then.
[14:02:45] <steve_stallings> guess it has been long enough, just take it easy 8-)
[14:13:50] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, any reason why after I update BDI 4.20 with synaptic package manager, why X/kde won't respond to my KB? but does so in the CLI fine?
[14:13:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I can ssh in... that's about it.
[14:14:06] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, and use my mouse within X/KDE
[14:15:08] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Short answer - Nope.
[14:15:40] <A-L-P-H-A> XF86Config-4 file doesn't look changed at all.
[14:16:17] <A-L-P-H-A> XF86Config-4 wasn't touched after the update either.
[14:16:32] <A-L-P-H-A> would localization settings change my KB?
[14:17:30] <paul_c> Keyboard should still respond.
[14:18:03] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: do you have a PS/2 mouse plugged in?
[14:18:13] <A-L-P-H-A> yes, PS2 mouse, and PS2 KB.
[14:18:44] <cradek> * cradek shrugs
[14:21:19] <A-L-P-H-A> here's something.
[14:21:34] <A-L-P-H-A> kio (KSycoca) errors.
[14:21:40] <A-L-P-H-A> some version conflicts
[14:21:51] <A-L-P-H-A> under ~/.xsession-errors
[14:44:17] <A-L-P-H-A> this is completely unusable.
[14:48:18] <cradek> why are you updating X?
[14:48:32] <cradek> I think you said it works before you update X
[14:49:26] <A-L-P-H-A> The KB works fine, until X/KDE loads... and then the KB won't respond what so ever. My ~/.xsession-errors file is here http://pastebin.com/298403
[14:49:52] <A-L-P-H-A> it was working after I updated X as well last time, but I don't think I did squat to make it work...
[14:50:09] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, I screwed up the system last night, by doing something stupid.
[14:50:20] <cradek> does the capslock light still work when the keyboard seems dead?
[14:50:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I've reinstalled, and kept my old generic.ini (the slow one that works)
[14:50:32] <jepler> kxkb: WARNING: Unable to open /tmp/kde-alpha/us.xkm: No such file or directory
[14:50:56] <cradek> kde-alpha?
[14:50:57] <jepler> this looks like a bit of a smoking gun, but I don't know how to go from there to figuring out why kde is trying to use a keymap from /tmp
[14:51:03] <A-L-P-H-A> no, kde-3.22
[14:51:42] <cradek> you could always not use kde
[14:52:57] <jepler> http://lists.debian.org/debian-qt-kde/2005/01/msg00154.html
[14:53:19] <jepler> it sounds like kde tries to create temporary(?) keymaps in /tmp which seems like a terrible idea
[14:53:32] <jepler> maybe /tmp/kde-alpha is owned by someone else so kxkb can't do what it needs to do?
[14:54:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't think so, I just rm'd them. heh
[15:00:50] <alpha_emc> well... here's how I'm typing.
[15:01:08] <alpha_emc> kill Xfree from SSH. use the mouse to say login via text mode.
[15:01:16] <alpha_emc> kill the TMP folder. Startx
[15:01:25] <alpha_emc> and whammo. I'm typing to you here today.
[15:10:12] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, cradek, "Jymmm" got me thinking last night, to remove some non-essential services may speed up my pulse rate. Would this be true?
[15:10:23] <cradek> no
[15:10:37] <cradek> all those services run during the RT's idle loop
[15:10:48] <cradek> nothing in the non-RT world affects the RT
[15:10:58] <paul_c> What speed is the CPU ?
[15:11:03] <A-L-P-H-A> Duron 700
[15:11:08] <A-L-P-H-A> with 512megs ram.
[15:11:10] <cradek> the limit is how fast your CPU can run the RT loop (freqmod), nothing else
[15:11:18] <paul_c> chipset ?
[15:11:23] <A-L-P-H-A> via
[15:11:31] <A-L-P-H-A> uhmm... need me to pull the numbers?
[15:11:54] <Jymmm> cradek : tha being true for RT kernel only, correct?
[15:12:00] <paul_c> what period are you currently running at ?
[15:12:07] <A-L-P-H-A> don't forget, I'm running BDI 4.20
[15:12:20] <A-L-P-H-A> 0.000024
[15:12:20] <cradek> Jymmm: we're talking about emc's PERIOD setting, right?
[15:12:50] <Jymmm> cradek : I mean in respect to background processes... cups, named, ftpd, samba, etc.
[15:13:10] <paul_c> You should be able to go down to ~20uSec
[15:13:13] <cradek> Jymmm: I don't understand what you're asking
[15:13:41] <paul_c> You can certainly turn off ftpd
[15:14:02] <paul_c> along with samba & cups if they are not being used.
[15:14:03] <Jymmm> cradek : You said that background process (daemons) does not effect the RT loop, and I asked is that true of RT kernels.
[15:14:15] <Jymmm> specifically
[15:14:37] <cradek> well sure
[15:14:49] <A-L-P-H-A> cups, yes. dunno if I want to kill samba.
[15:15:06] <cradek> all of linux runs under the RT kernel while no RT tasks are running
[15:15:16] <cradek> they have absolute priority
[15:15:34] <paul_c> daemons & other processes do not affect the speed at which you can run an RT task. It does limit how much spare time is left for usr space though.
[15:15:36] <cradek> so nothing you change in linux will affect your minimum PERIOD setting
[15:16:22] <cradek> but things like ftpd and cups are almost always idle (probably sitting on a select())
[15:16:23] <Jymmm> paul_c ok. I just wasn't sure if that was specific to a rT kernel or not.
[15:17:39] <paul_c> The one thing that you can do to run an RT task @ max is to disable X
[15:18:05] <Jymmm> heh
[15:18:44] <A-L-P-H-A> So things can I do optimize my system?
[15:19:20] <A-L-P-H-A> what things
[15:19:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I always seem to missing a word or two in my sentences.
[15:19:39] <Jymmm> be
[15:19:40] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: probably nothing you can do, short of buying a faster machine, will affect it significantly
[15:20:09] <paul_c> Turn off any unwanted services - Cups, Samba, etc.
[15:20:10] <Jymmm> he is (was) using a P4
[15:20:50] <paul_c> If you must have a GUI desktop, try something like icewm instead of KDE
[15:21:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't need a GUI desktop.
[15:21:07] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[15:21:21] <paul_c> OK, so disable kdm
[15:21:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I just need EMC (is there a text mode)?
[15:21:24] <jacky^> hi
[15:21:27] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[15:21:28] <SWPadnos> I thought the CPU was a Duron 700
[15:21:38] <A-L-P-H-A> it is.
[15:21:41] <paul_c> and run keystick from the CLI
[15:21:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I think he was using a LT at one point
[15:22:04] <SWPadnos> ah
[15:22:29] <A-L-P-H-A> k, questions. how do I disable KDE? "Su -> init 3"?
[15:22:33] <A-L-P-H-A> su
[15:22:55] <SWPadnos> the runlevels seem weird on debian, don't listen to my old advice :)
[15:22:58] <paul_c> sudo /etc/init.d/kdm stop
[15:23:34] <Jymmm> ooooops! =)
[15:23:36] <A-L-P-H-A> k, that killed it... will it restart again. :)
[15:23:51] <A-L-P-H-A> on startup/reboot that is
[15:26:27] <SWPadnos> yes - to prevent that, rename the file S99kdm to K01kdm in /etc/rc3.d (and possibly rc2.d, rc4.d, and rc5.d as well)
[15:26:37] <paul_c> update-rc.d -f kdm remove
[15:26:47] <SWPadnos> or, do it the easy way, like Paul said :)
[15:27:35] <paul_c> Linux Cookbook from O'Reilly - Darned usefull to have at times.
[15:27:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm - another O'Reilly book to get ;)
[15:30:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Cool.
[15:31:08] <A-L-P-H-A> now must read on how to start emc from the cli.
[15:31:22] <Jymmm> theres another util to see all the runtime levels but I forget what it's called
[15:31:46] <SWPadnos> change DISPLAY to keystick in the ini file, and run normally
[15:32:05] <paul_c> http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/winxpannoy2/ ;}
[15:32:38] <Jymmm> paul_c you have that?
[15:32:53] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, I ran normaly by clicking. :)
[15:32:56] <paul_c> good grief, noo.
[15:33:03] <Jymmm> paul_c lol
[15:33:06] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:33:51] <SWPadnos> try /usr/local/emc/generic.run
[15:33:52] <steve_stallings> and I will second the endorsement of the Linux Cookbook, only book I have seen that does not assume you are a Linux geek, but DOES assume you have some intelligence
[15:34:11] <SWPadnos> How can you be intelligent without being a Linux geek? ;)
[15:34:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos have common sense
[15:34:27] <steve_stallings> it is an alias of some sort
[15:34:33] <SWPadnos> yes he do
[15:37:20] <SWPadnos> funny that they have "Reinstalling Windows XP" in chapter 1 :)
[15:37:59] <Jymmm> I'm reading the sample chapter, what a POS!
[15:38:11] <SWPadnos> Point Of Sale?
[15:38:20] <Jymmm> SWPadnos "Yeah, that's it"
[15:38:28] <SWPadnos> ok - just checking :)
[15:42:37] <Jymmm> I'd rather have a glorofied reg file that wipes out all the bs in XP.
[15:42:50] <SWPadnos> so - something like Win2k then?
[15:43:14] <Jymmm> I run 2k on my desktop, XP came with my LT
[15:43:24] <SWPadnos> which do you prefer?
[15:45:19] <Jymmm> In respect to XP, I like that it can identify more HW, but other than that they're about the the same, except I have far more control under 2k than I do on XP due to the forced dependancies that XP has.
[15:45:53] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I load files and stuff with keystick?
[15:45:56] <SWPadnos> ok - that was the general idea I had - no reason to get XP unless I need easier DVD writing or that sort of thing
[15:45:59] <A-L-P-H-A> load gcode files?
[15:46:14] <SWPadnos> that's a durned good question you got there
[15:46:34] <Jymmm> Under a fresh install, it takes me about 45 minutes to kill the bs in 2k. In XP it takes a few hours and bottles of tequilia.
[15:46:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Nero works fine.
[15:47:02] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos? who's question? mine?
[15:47:09] <SWPadnos> yes - yours
[15:48:01] <SWPadnos> press ? for help, and read :)
[15:48:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I was.
[15:48:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Sometimes it's easier to backup a dvd on one or the other depending.
[15:48:14] <SWPadnos> o or O
[15:48:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess I can't do that over SSH.
[15:48:32] <Jymmm> Press the ANY key.
[15:48:50] <SWPadnos> I'm doing that via ssh right now (from Windows, even)
[15:49:09] <Jymmm> * Jymmm puttys SWPadnos
[15:49:11] <A-L-P-H-A> couldn't do anything.
[15:49:14] <SWPadnos> though you're right - it doesn't work
[15:49:24] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos. :P ahhahahaha
[15:49:25] <SWPadnos> puttying now, and I pscp, too :)
[15:49:34] <A-L-P-H-A> putty didn't work
[15:49:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll try it at the kb.
[15:49:41] <A-L-P-H-A> brb.
[15:57:56] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, had to be in a mode first before it allowed me.
[15:58:08] <A-L-P-H-A> F4 -> o/O
[16:00:21] <SWPadnos> huh - that didn't work for me
[16:01:21] <A-L-P-H-A> works if you're at the keyboard, not ssh.
[16:01:31] <SWPadnos> ok
[16:01:53] <SWPadnos> I have extra debug messages, so I see that F4 does something
[16:01:58] <SWPadnos> but then o still doesn't work
[16:02:14] <A-L-P-H-A> don't know what to say.
[16:02:27] <SWPadnos> not that it matters - I can use remote X guis anyway
[16:02:40] <paul_c> http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-119 <smirk>
[16:02:50] <A-L-P-H-A> other than I need to brush my teeth, and maybe get more than 3 hrs of sleep
[16:04:10] <steve_stallings> Paul - don't laugh, that code worked flawlessly 8-)
[16:05:23] <A-L-P-H-A> oh wow.
[16:05:33] <A-L-P-H-A> i really should copy some of those torrents off my computer.
[16:05:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 12:04:18 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (24% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 848/1024MB (82.81%), C: 41.34gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 11.85gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 1day 23hrs 48mins 10secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[16:05:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 372gigs, 11.8gigs free.
[16:06:44] <SWPadnos> oh no - only (1000 x the capacity of an $800 hard drive when I was in high school) free - whatever will you do? B-)
[16:08:22] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I think I spent $200 back in the days for a 20meg hd.
[16:08:32] <A-L-P-H-A> late 80's?
[16:08:52] <SWPadnos> mid 80's - the "Sider" - a 10 M external hard drive for $800
[16:08:55] <A-L-P-H-A> it's actualy two SATA 200 gig drives in raid 0.
[16:09:16] <SWPadnos> yeah - a total of $250-$350 these days
[16:09:17] <A-L-P-H-A> mid 80's... I was ~6.
[16:09:30] <SWPadnos> I was ~not 6
[16:09:31] <Jymmm> paul_c : The killer --> laugh_at(everyone, for_having_the_patience_year_after_year_for_another_unfinished_version);
[16:09:53] <steve_stallings> gee, and I paid $600 for my first floppy disk, used, hard sectored
[16:10:04] <SWPadnos> single sided, 88k?
[16:10:16] <Jymmm> steve_stallings 8" huh?
[16:10:22] <A-L-P-H-A> my parents paid $2K for a Commodore 64
[16:10:26] <A-L-P-H-A> like in 1982.
[16:10:41] <SWPadnos> $2k canadian?
[16:10:43] <steve_stallings> 8" Pertec, cannot remember capacity now, built my own controller
[16:10:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I think US.
[16:11:02] <SWPadnos> hmm - they used to advertise it as "the first 64k computer under $1000"
[16:11:09] <Jymmm> lol
[16:11:16] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah the COMPUTER itself.
[16:11:26] <A-L-P-H-A> then you gotta get the tape drive, the disk drive, and the monitor.
[16:11:41] <SWPadnos> oh - a whole system (including the tape or floppy drive) could run $2k
[16:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> the paddle wheels.
[16:11:44] <steve_stallings> everything was bit bang by software in an Intel 8008
[16:11:49] <SWPadnos> 1541 floppy - 300 baud
[16:11:50] <A-L-P-H-A> and joysticks!!!
[16:19:37] <paul_c> SWPadnos: BTW it is light bulb, not lamp !
[16:20:10] <SWPadnos> which? what? where? what are you talking about?
[16:21:11] <paul_c> conversation some four months ago... Re: lamps v light bulbs.
[16:21:28] <SWPadnos> ah - replacements for car lights or panel indicators?
[16:21:49] <paul_c> You need the dates ?
[16:22:19] <jepler> huh, I was just reading the other day that the introduction price of the C64 was 350GBP, way below $2000 USD or CDN
[16:22:20] <SWPadnos> maybe just a refresher as to the context
[16:22:38] <SWPadnos> it may have been introduced in GB after the proce went down
[16:22:43] <SWPadnos> peice
[16:22:45] <SWPadnos> price
[16:22:48] <SWPadnos> piece price
[16:23:59] <SWPadnos> light bulbs are a subset of lamps, so either would be correct for an incandescent {lamp,bulb}
[16:24:09] <steve_stallings> Peter piper pick a peck of pickled peppers.....
[16:24:54] <SWPadnos> how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood?
[16:25:03] <Jymmm> 4 cords
[16:25:07] <SWPadnos> per hour
[16:25:14] <Jymmm> and 7 years ago
[16:25:27] <SWPadnos> yeah - now they want a higher minimum wage
[16:25:36] <Jymmm> and benefits
[16:25:43] <Jymmm> dental mostly
[16:25:51] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:34:38] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[16:36:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder with a axe or a chainsaw.
[16:42:10] <Jymmm> blowtorch
[18:04:07] <robin_sz> meep?
[18:04:35] <cradek> nobody here
[18:05:07] <robin_sz> except ... us chickens
[18:07:18] <jacky^> * jacky^ gnammm pizzaaaa
[18:07:37] <jacky^> * jacky^ slurp slurpp rd wine :P
[18:08:20] <robin_sz> pizza is good .. I here the make it OK in italy
[18:08:30] <jacky^> hehehe :D
[18:08:33] <robin_sz> red wine, well .. they make it in France
[18:09:01] <robin_sz> the rest of the world just tries its best to copy as best they can ;)
[18:09:09] <jacky^> mmhh.. tried the white wine from sicily island ?
[18:09:18] <robin_sz> mmm, is it sweet?
[18:09:30] <jacky^> then try Donnafugata or Corvo
[18:09:45] <jacky^> not too sweet
[18:09:57] <jacky^> simply wonderful
[18:10:20] <robin_sz> oh, I like my white wine *sweet* ... a good graves or sauternne
[18:10:36] <robin_sz> lupiac, monbazillac etc
[18:10:37] <jacky^> yours ?
[18:10:59] <jacky^> you made a wine from yourself ?
[18:11:22] <jacky^> nice
[18:12:37] <robin_sz> no
[18:12:42] <robin_sz> I do not make my own wine
[18:12:46] <jacky^> ah...
[18:13:01] <robin_sz> the prfessionals do the job better
[18:13:05] <jacky^> :\
[18:13:28] <jacky^> i don't think professional can do better
[18:13:40] <jacky^> we believe in old tradictions
[18:14:15] <jacky^> wine should be worked by our hand
[18:14:19] <jacky^> hands*
[18:14:55] <jacky^> professional == business
[18:15:07] <jacky^> business = microsoft
[18:15:20] <jacky^> microsoft = cacca (bad thing)
[18:15:28] <jacky^> we prefer Linux :D
[18:15:34] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:15:46] <robin_sz> ferari make cars
[18:15:58] <jacky^> yeah, good car
[18:16:15] <jacky^> but, the secret is shumacher
[18:16:19] <jacky^> not the car
[18:16:20] <robin_sz> nah
[18:16:25] <robin_sz> not the race cars
[18:16:38] <jacky^> what ?
[18:16:49] <robin_sz> they make much better road cars than I can in my garage
[18:17:02] <jacky^> mmmhh
[18:17:06] <jacky^> O_o
[18:17:26] <jacky^> you have the car of back to the future ?
[18:17:49] <jacky^> :-)
[18:18:14] <robin_sz> ok, I admit ...
[18:18:25] <jacky^> hehe
[18:18:32] <robin_sz> in fanatsy land, you can make great cars in your shed
[18:18:45] <robin_sz> in fanatsy land, you can make great wines in your cellar
[18:18:49] <robin_sz> however ..
[18:18:51] <robin_sz> ;)
[18:19:01] <jacky^> wel..
[18:19:13] <jacky^> we are in fanatsy land :P
[18:19:21] <jacky^> ca do it
[18:20:24] <jacky^> robin_sz: where you from ?
[18:20:31] <robin_sz> england
[18:20:38] <jacky^> nicee
[18:20:44] <jacky^> but..
[18:21:09] <jacky^> the liverpool take away our cup of champions league :\
[18:21:27] <jacky^> have you seen milan - liverpool ?
[18:22:32] <robin_sz> no
[18:22:35] <jacky^> robin_sz: do you like italy ?
[18:22:37] <robin_sz> I never watch football
[18:22:42] <robin_sz> yeah, italy is OK
[18:22:43] <jacky^> no ?
[18:22:48] <robin_sz> no, never
[18:22:57] <jacky^> why don't you come here this summer ?
[18:23:02] <Jymmm> jacky^ : We'll won't dont have all those fiesty italian girls here to stomp on the grapes. Instead the grapes are shipped into a hopper which muches them into 1000 to 5000 stainless steel liquid cooled vats to ferment =)
[18:23:03] <robin_sz> I might ...
[18:23:12] <jacky^> we have beautiful sea
[18:23:16] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:23:21] <jacky^> really ?
[18:23:29] <robin_sz> i have to visit florence some time this year
[18:23:48] <jacky^> hi Jymmm :-)
[18:23:59] <Jymmm> jacky^ =)
[18:24:17] <jacky^> robin_sz: you need about 20 days
[18:24:20] <jacky^> here
[18:24:27] <jacky^> so, you can see:
[18:24:48] <jacky^> florence, rome, naples and my city :P
[18:24:53] <robin_sz> ive seen the north a little
[18:25:00] <robin_sz> the dolomnites etc
[18:25:07] <jacky^> mmhhh
[18:25:22] <jacky^> do you like sea or mountains ?
[18:25:30] <robin_sz> mountains
[18:25:35] <jacky^> well
[18:25:52] <jacky^> a beautiful place is the Val D'aosta
[18:26:07] <jacky^> mont blanc
[18:26:20] <jacky^> here we also have mountains
[18:26:30] <robin_sz> Ive skied there
[18:26:31] <jacky^> but the very actractive is the sea
[18:26:41] <robin_sz> courmayer
[18:26:45] <jacky^> nice :)
[18:26:58] <robin_sz> and hmm
[18:27:07] <jacky^> Pila ?
[18:27:13] <robin_sz> no
[18:27:16] <robin_sz> thinking
[18:27:21] <jacky^> okay
[18:27:29] <jacky^> s near
[18:27:33] <robin_sz> yes
[18:27:50] <robin_sz> la thuile
[18:27:55] <jacky^> i have some components of my family there
[18:28:44] <robin_sz> with luck, I am moving to Switzerland this year
[18:28:57] <robin_sz> perhaps just 1 hour from mont blanc
[18:28:58] <jacky^> umh :\
[18:29:04] <jacky^> ok
[18:29:17] <robin_sz> and chmaonix
[18:29:30] <jacky^> nice
[18:29:33] <robin_sz> now, when it comes to great skiing, chamonix is the place
[18:29:51] <jacky^> yeah
[18:30:19] <robin_sz> the off-piste above brevent
[18:30:29] <jacky^> hehe
[18:30:43] <robin_sz> and the runs from Grand Montets at argentierre
[18:31:02] <jacky^> cool
[18:31:04] <robin_sz> there is still one I want to do there ...
[18:31:16] <robin_sz> never been in good condition when I have looked
[18:31:28] <jacky^> what ?
[18:31:49] <robin_sz> "pas de chevre", from the grand montets down to the mer de glace
[18:32:05] <jacky^> uhmm
[18:32:11] <jacky^> i've no idea..
[18:32:16] <robin_sz> a steep couloir in front of Les Drus ...
[18:32:59] <jacky^> will be fun :P
[18:33:53] <jacky^> ehh.. yes
[18:34:03] <robin_sz> should be ...
[18:34:06] <jacky^> hacker spirit
[18:34:12] <jacky^> :)
[18:34:38] <robin_sz> sections are over 40 degrees ... so the snow needs to be perfect
[18:35:15] <jacky^> you feel to be ready for this ?
[18:36:26] <robin_sz> sure ...
[18:36:37] <robin_sz> but only if the conditions are perfect
[18:36:38] <jacky^> coll ;-)
[18:36:46] <jacky^> cool*
[18:37:32] <jacky^> someone call me for a dinner
[18:37:36] <jacky^> see you later
[18:37:40] <jacky^> ciao
[18:38:05] <jacky^> jacky^ is now known as jacky^afk
[18:38:27] <robin_sz> ciao
[18:46:35] <Jymmm> five fans are noisey! lol
[18:53:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni!
[18:53:18] <alex_joni> hello
[18:53:27] <alex_joni> Jymmm!
[18:53:36] <Jymmm> how the hell are ya!?
[18:54:14] <alex_joni> pretty ok
[18:54:31] <alex_joni> you?
[18:55:18] <Jymmm> not too shabby. finished wiring the driver and need to plug in the computer and try to spin these steppers =)
[18:57:04] <alex_joni> nice
[18:57:15] <alex_joni> I started building a test machine too
[18:57:32] <alex_joni> so I'll have smthg to play with
[18:58:08] <robin_sz> we machined the first bits on the bridgeport under CNC control today
[18:58:16] <Jymmm> very cool. my machine won't be here for a month, so all I get todo is watch teh motors spin
[18:58:18] <alex_joni> hey robin
[18:58:31] <alex_joni> did u use emc after all?
[18:58:35] <robin_sz> no
[18:58:38] <robin_sz> baldor
[18:58:46] <alex_joni> right
[18:59:16] <robin_sz> the interpreter is a bit pants
[18:59:33] <robin_sz> (no workspaces, tool length offsets are dodgy)
[18:59:46] <robin_sz> but the motion is smooooooooottthhh
[19:00:52] <robin_sz> more importantly .. we did some lasering today
[19:01:03] <robin_sz> mad a nice sign for the factory :)
[19:03:49] <alex_joni> a mad sign?
[19:03:54] <robin_sz> heh
[19:03:57] <robin_sz> *made*
[19:04:18] <alex_joni> :)
[19:04:26] <alex_joni> a mad sign would have been better
[19:04:29] <alex_joni> =))
[19:04:51] <Jymmm> "Institute for the Terminally Insane"
[19:05:54] <robin_sz> been inserting some PEM fasteners in sheet metal too
[19:06:03] <robin_sz> now .. there is a Kewl technology
[19:06:20] <robin_sz> simple, but *very* effective.
[19:14:16] <alex_joni> ValarQ: around?
[19:14:44] <ValarQ> alex_joni: yeah
[19:14:49] <robin_sz> hmmm
[19:14:53] <robin_sz> do I want to buy this?
[19:14:55] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64818&item=7521782990&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[19:15:03] <alex_joni> ValarQ: send me your link again
[19:15:12] <alex_joni> I'm on a different pc
[19:15:15] <ValarQ> alex_joni: for what?
[19:15:27] <alex_joni> crap
[19:15:31] <alex_joni> *g*
[19:15:37] <robin_sz> yeah?
[19:15:39] <ValarQ> alex_joni: which of them?
[19:15:46] <ValarQ> alex_joni: crapplication or crapahalic?
[19:16:07] <alex_joni> hmmm.. that's a tough one
[19:16:12] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[19:16:13] <alex_joni> crapplication
[19:16:18] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crap
[19:17:57] <robin_sz> http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com
[19:23:34] <jacky^afk> jacky^afk is now known as jacky^
[19:24:03] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[19:24:09] <alex_joni> yo jacky^
[19:32:13] <alex_joni> think I'll go to bed early today
[19:32:17] <alex_joni> was a looong day
[19:32:29] <alex_joni> had a paper at a conference
[19:33:15] <jacky^> alex_joni: take a look to my latest job
[19:33:24] <alex_joni> jacky^: got a link?
[19:33:37] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=lastup&cat=&pos=0
[19:34:12] <jacky^> she's anna, mi girlfriend
[19:34:23] <jacky^> the work i made yesterday
[19:34:33] <jacky^> picture it's not so good
[19:34:56] <alex_joni> nice
[19:35:01] <jacky^> because i takes a pictures from my webcam
[19:35:13] <jacky^> tnx :)
[19:36:24] <alex_joni> is that walking thingie yours?
[19:36:40] <jacky^> what ?
[19:36:46] <alex_joni> the next pic
[19:37:04] <jacky^> oh.. no
[19:37:12] <jacky^> :\
[19:38:41] <jacky^> i' here:
[19:38:46] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=random&cat=12775&pos=-1241
[19:40:29] <jacky^> you can see latest images upload here:
[19:40:33] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&cat=1
[19:40:37] <alex_joni> heh
[19:40:42] <jacky^> :-)
[19:40:49] <alex_joni> nice bike
[19:41:04] <jacky^> LOL
[19:41:15] <jacky^> yeah, nice
[19:42:09] <alex_joni> ok.. me goes to bed
[19:42:13] <alex_joni> night guys
[19:42:18] <jacky^> g night alex_joni
[19:52:55] <jacky^> hello
[19:54:49] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wakes up..
[19:55:00] <jacky^> u� Phydbleep
[19:55:42] <Phydbleep> Who else wanted Crydom 240V 40A solid state relays for motor control??
[19:56:01] <Phydbleep> CRYDOM Solid State Relay 40A 240V USD$10 http://www.relays.shopeio.com/inventory/details.asp?id=733&cat=Relays&sub=
[19:56:04] <jacky^> uh ? :\
[19:56:30] <jacky^> Phydbleep: how are you
[19:56:31] <Phydbleep> jacky^: Opto-isolated mains switch. :)
[19:56:38] <jacky^> :)
[19:57:09] <Phydbleep> jacky^: 3V-32V input to control 240V/40A output. :)
[19:57:18] <jacky^> wow
[19:57:38] <Phydbleep> jacky^: I'm still asleep and running on autopilot. :)
[19:58:01] <jacky^> :D
[19:58:10] <jacky^> ]
[19:59:14] <Phydbleep> But, I got the damn motor controller shielding assembled at about 3am and now I get to make a control panel to run it. :)
[19:59:39] <jacky^> :s
[20:00:37] <jacky^> pratically, you're not sleeping
[20:00:45] <jacky^> never
[20:00:49] <jacky^> O_o
[20:01:06] <Phydbleep> I get to sleep sometimes between 05:00 and 11:00 :\
[20:01:16] <jacky^> ghghgh
[20:02:38] <jacky^> i was thinking what to do with an old laser printer i got
[20:03:05] <jacky^> it seem to have a good laser parts
[20:03:18] <jacky^> * jacky^ mumble mumble ...
[20:03:27] <Phydbleep> jacky^: Attach a big eye-bolt to it and sell it as a boat anchor?
[20:03:42] <cradek> use it to print stuff?
[20:03:44] <jacky^> doh !
[20:04:19] <jacky^> maybe i should be get a funny laser games :P
[20:04:24] <Phydbleep> cradek: Well.. I suppose he could do that.. But people might get the wrong idea about old laser printers if he does. :)
[20:04:47] <cradek> I think laser printers are still the only real kind of printer. inkjets suck.
[20:05:13] <cradek> the old lasers usually need new rubber wheels so they grab the paper reliably. Usually you can get a kit with all the parts for about $30.
[20:05:31] <Phydbleep> cradek: I like inkjets for a few things.. The ink doesn't start flaking and fall off like laser toner does.
[20:05:47] <jacky^> Phydbleep: i've ssen online an interesting project about laser scanner
[20:06:00] <jacky^> maybe can found a link,,
[20:06:35] <Phydbleep> jacky^: A camera made from a laser, scanning mirrors and a photodetector?
[20:06:49] <jacky^> Phydbleep: yeah !
[20:07:05] <Phydbleep> jacky^: That's a 'flying spot camera'
[20:07:08] <paul_c> http://www.splinescan.co.uk/
[20:07:14] <jacky^> what you think ? can be do ?
[20:07:46] <Phydbleep> jacky^: you can do the same with 2 detectors for stereo/3d pics. :)
[20:08:01] <jacky^> uh ?
[20:08:49] <jacky^> paul_c: nice link, thank you, bookmarked
[20:08:56] <Phydbleep> use the same laser/mirror set and use 2 photodetectors spaced about 3 inches apart to generate 2 images..
[20:09:13] <jacky^> interesting
[20:11:20] <Phydbleep> jacky^: That's one of the original tv camera formats from way back when... Predates the vidicon tube for imaging. :)
[20:11:20] <jacky^> here's the project i�ve seen
[20:11:25] <jacky^> http://elm-chan.org/works/vlp/report_e.html
[20:12:10] <jacky^> but this is a projector
[20:14:17] <Phydbleep> jacky^: That's not a 'flying spot camera' then. :\
[20:14:26] <jacky^> yeah..
[20:15:33] <Phydbleep> jacky^: http://www.earlytelevision.org/yanczer_fss3.html
[20:17:33] <jacky^> very nice
[20:17:55] <jacky^> but too few information about how it work
[20:18:36] <jacky^> i never could'nt something like this :\
[20:18:51] <Phydbleep> Yeah, You can use 1 scanning light source and mutiple detectors to generate semi-holographic scans.
[20:19:15] <jacky^> uhm.. a moment..
[20:19:22] <Phydbleep> jacky^: The bid disk has a set of holes drilled in it for the light to pass through.
[20:19:25] <cradek> if you have not seen the early telivision museum, GO THERE, it's so very cool
[20:19:30] <Phydbleep> s/bid/big
[20:19:57] <jacky^> Phydbleep: yes, i've seen this
[20:20:56] <jacky^> bah.. it seem to me very difficult to homebuild (for me)
[20:21:07] <Phydbleep> There might be a mechanical shutter like in a film projector as well to synchronise/chop the light into pulses..
[20:21:34] <jacky^> :\
[20:22:33] <Phydbleep> jacky^ You could fake one with an old projector and a custom film loop. :)
[20:22:47] <jacky^> mmmhhh...
[20:23:10] <jacky^> maybe.,. i the venice lucky kiss me
[20:23:12] <jacky^> :-)
[20:23:29] <jacky^> nahh
[20:23:35] <jacky^> too difficult
[20:23:39] <jacky^> really
[20:23:44] <Phydbleep> jacky^: I think the traslation for that one has broken.
[20:23:56] <Phydbleep> ?? jacky^ maybe.,. i the venice lucky kiss me
[20:24:04] <jacky^> hehe
[20:24:25] <jacky^> i mean if i've luck
[20:24:32] <jacky^> fortuna*
[20:24:46] <jacky^> i don't know how to translate :\
[20:24:54] <Phydbleep> Ah.. "Fortune will smile upon yo" ?
[20:24:58] <Phydbleep> you
[20:25:05] <jacky^> fortuna is lucky
[20:25:32] <jacky^> ma LOL
[20:25:35] <jacky^> :))))
[20:25:38] <Phydbleep> "Fortune will smile upon you" usually == 'get lucky' :)
[20:25:45] <jacky^> hahaha
[20:26:00] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[20:26:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a 3-1/2 year old currently chanting "No, I dont wanna watch Monty Python"..
[20:27:34] <jacky^> * jacky^ want to learn ruby language !
[20:27:50] <ValarQ> Phydbleep: what?!?
[20:27:50] <Phydbleep> To which my response is "Tough, I have the remote and my name is on the bills, You can buy your own tv to watch."
[20:29:50] <ValarQ> one can't get to much of Monty Python :)
[20:31:54] <jacky^> Phydbleep: http://www.muellerr.ch/engineering/laserscanner/tutorial/the_tutorial.html that's the project i've seen
[20:32:05] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: I know.. I'm working on civilizing the little barbarian. :)
[20:34:22] <Phydbleep> jacky^: That's overcomplicated.. You can use the laser angle and TOF (Time of Flight) of the beam to generate the same scan from 1 photodiode.
[20:35:46] <jacky^> :-)
[20:36:57] <jacky^> i will learn more about :D
[20:41:02] <paul_c> okiedokie.... the new queue appears to be working as expected.
[20:53:25] <jacky^> uff
[20:54:14] <jacky^> why don't organanize the meeting in europe sometime ?:\
[20:54:23] <jacky^> always US :\
[20:55:22] <jacky^> next meeting will be in naples ok ? :D
[20:55:46] <jacky^> we also have international airport :P
[20:56:03] <paul_c> meetings for ??
[20:56:26] <jacky^> meeting for conference
[20:57:01] <jacky^> ehm..
[20:57:11] <jacky^> also pizza ! :P
[20:58:04] <jacky^> of course.. naples is capital of pizza
[20:58:18] <paul_c> an EMC codeFest conference ?
[20:58:24] <jacky^> yeah
[20:58:27] <jacky^> sure
[20:58:46] <paul_c> there's one in Germany later in the year
[20:58:48] <jacky^> we can find a good place
[20:59:18] <jacky^> germany.. nice
[20:59:31] <jacky^> but, we also need
[21:00:30] <les> paul, tell me about the new queue!
[21:01:21] <paul_c> add_line stuffs a move on to a fifo, and get_pos pops it off at the other end.
[21:01:43] <jacky^> we could also organized a tour of a few days
[21:01:50] <jacky^> np
[21:01:55] <les> some code I can look at? Just curious
[21:01:57] <jacky^> in naples
[21:02:45] <paul_c> atm, I'm working on getting the usr space tests in to the trajectory planner.
[21:03:01] <les> ah ok
[21:03:41] <les> I have been trying to come up with that spray gun design.
[21:03:54] <les> I must have read a hundred papers today.
[21:05:15] <jacky^> paul_c: if you prefer rome, i can ask to my friend
[21:05:51] <jacky^> but naples it's very nice, really
[21:06:29] <paul_c> * paul_c prefers small quiet sleepy villages.
[21:07:32] <paul_c> The new queue is just on 23K compared to the original 150K
[21:07:36] <jacky^> i can also found a small village but, i don't think it's so funny :\
[21:08:03] <jacky^> ya paul_c !
[21:08:22] <les> 23k is plenty as long as it stays mostly full!
[21:09:25] <jacky^> paul_c: take a look on these webcam and after say to me if you like..
[21:09:26] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:09:27] <paul_c> That's a queue of 210 moves
[21:09:30] <jacky^> http://medivia.sele.it/italiano/meteo/index.htm
[21:09:57] <jacky^> it's wonderful.
[21:10:06] <paul_c> nah - They turned off all the lights.
[21:10:49] <jacky^> :\
[21:11:08] <robin_sz> and the boats in the back have the wrong number of sails
[21:11:44] <jacky^> i live here: http://medivia.sele.it/italiano/meteo/index.htm
[21:11:51] <jacky^> you can see the panoramic
[21:12:14] <jacky^> we also have the vesuvio vulcan eh ?
[21:12:20] <robin_sz> today was sort of fun
[21:12:22] <jacky^> the second in europe
[21:12:33] <jacky^> after etna in sicily island
[21:13:02] <robin_sz> I was given some business advice today
[21:13:13] <robin_sz> say you have a factory and some staff ..
[21:13:20] <robin_sz> and you have to go away for a few days
[21:13:21] <jacky^> robin_sz: business ? :P
[21:13:38] <robin_sz> what is the best possible outcome you can *reallistically* expect?
[21:14:09] <jacky^> abxtract ?
[21:14:20] <robin_sz> I suggested "everyting carries on as normal, product gets shipped"
[21:15:08] <robin_sz> my friend reckons *at best* your staff simply do nothing ...
[21:15:20] <robin_sz> if you are lucky.
[21:15:33] <robin_sz> more likely they will actively break something
[21:15:47] <jacky^> robin_sz: you're talking but i can't follow you :\
[21:15:53] <robin_sz> 'k
[21:15:55] <jacky^> wich country ?
[21:16:00] <robin_sz> UK
[21:16:33] <jacky^> so, what you decided ?
[21:16:43] <robin_sz> about what?
[21:17:11] <jacky^> about what you was talking
[21:17:19] <robin_sz> ummm ...
[21:17:41] <robin_sz> I dont hink it needed a decision .. it was just advice, you know, talking about stuff
[21:17:49] <robin_sz> abstract
[21:18:10] <jacky^> okay
[21:19:15] <jacky^> np
[21:21:13] <les> robin do you know anything about ultrasonic horns?
[21:21:46] <robin_sz> not at all
[21:22:02] <les> that makes two of us
[21:22:13] <robin_sz> acoustics always had WAY too much maths for me
[21:22:21] <websys> http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/WinRG.htm
[21:22:25] <robin_sz> electromgnetics I can just about grok
[21:22:26] <les> I guess I should like it.
[21:23:18] <robin_sz> do any of the electromag bits work in acoustics?
[21:23:29] <les> most of them do
[21:23:49] <les> even poynting vectors and stuff
[21:23:54] <robin_sz> coo
[21:24:01] <robin_sz> div this, curl that
[21:24:47] <robin_sz> ooh, fireworks
[21:26:05] <les> yup plenty of divergence and curl
[21:26:40] <les> Sadly I can't model this well because it is in a supersonic flow field
[21:26:48] <jacky^> hi rayh
[21:26:54] <les> supersonic AND ultrasonic
[21:27:04] <les> like mach diamonds on a jet
[21:27:07] <les> hi ray
[21:27:32] <Phydbleep> les: Are you getting Mach dimonds with that rig???
[21:27:40] <les> yes
[21:27:42] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wants one..
[21:28:01] <websys> Hi Ray - talked to Todd in Hartland - will be getting together with him about a Qt interface
[21:28:14] <Phydbleep> les: That would make a bitchin plastic welder. :)
[21:28:18] <robin_sz> les: I have an idea
[21:28:31] <les> ?
[21:28:52] <robin_sz> modelling is far to hard, just do it by eyeball and see what happens?
[21:29:02] <les> heh
[21:29:07] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Treat it gently it's in a very strange place? <jk> :)
[21:29:25] <les> well I am just trying to match imprdance
[21:29:48] <les> in this case it is opposite from plastics welding
[21:30:03] <robin_sz> hey, dont speak too soon ;)
[21:30:10] <robin_sz> it meay end uop that way yet
[21:30:13] <les> I have the ultrasound in a supersonic flow and I want to make electricity
[21:30:39] <robin_sz> like a reed in an a musical intrument?
[21:30:46] <robin_sz> except a piezo slab?
[21:30:51] <les> yeah.
[21:30:55] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep can easily match impudence..
[21:31:18] <les> impedance haha
[21:31:19] <robin_sz> I would have thought reads had had a zillion and one research studies done on them
[21:31:20] <jacky^> * jacky^ :-)
[21:31:24] <Phydbleep> les: Feedback sensor for control?
[21:31:26] <robin_sz> ideal PHD stuff
[21:32:05] <les> actually yes some feedback....frequency needs to be tightly controlled
[21:32:11] <robin_sz> perhaps you will need some sort of constant current circuit to regulate the impedance
[21:32:22] <Phydbleep> les: Try using a MHD loop as the sensor.
[21:32:33] <robin_sz> the stiffness of the piezo is going to vary wildly with load
[21:33:10] <les> acoustic impedance... in Rayls (Kg/m^2 s)
[21:33:30] <Phydbleep> Lose the piezo and wrap a coil around the flow.. Read the voltage on the coil for your control feedback
[21:33:56] <les> PHY the air ain't magnetic enough
[21:34:20] <Phydbleep> les: At that energy state it should be.
[21:34:27] <les> haha
[21:34:31] <les> I wish.
[21:34:45] <robin_sz> yeah, but you need to match the acoustics impedance to your piezo slab right?
[21:34:59] <robin_sz> and the slab will be varying in stiffness as the electrical load varies
[21:35:15] <robin_sz> 'snot going to be easy
[21:35:16] <les> yes....but not perfectly
[21:35:33] <les> It will vary in damping...not so much stiffness
[21:35:33] <robin_sz> depends on the range of the electrical load I guess
[21:35:42] <Phydbleep> les: Your also forgetting that charge differential between the tool and the part will add a lot to the EM field.
[21:35:52] <les> the problem is:
[21:36:09] <les> Z or air is 500 Rayls
[21:36:29] <les> Z of PZT is 3x10^7
[21:36:41] <Phydbleep> les: s/or/of?
[21:36:42] <A-L-P-H-A> how does the "program_prefex" work in the ini file? Is is just the path to where my gcode files are?
[21:36:43] <les> transformers anyone?
[21:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> transformers? for free! :)
[21:37:33] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Yes.
[21:37:39] <Phydbleep> les: Sure, I want the upppity one that looks like a VW. :)
[21:37:49] <les> heh
[21:38:02] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, does it need a trailing "/"??
[21:38:11] <paul_c> nope
[21:38:29] <paul_c> for example, I have ~/gcode in mine.
[21:39:19] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah I see that... but when I was using stickkey... I seem to have to type "/home/alpha/gcode/3D_Chips.ngc" to load the file. I couldln't just type "3D_Chips.ngc"
[21:39:55] <Phydbleep> les: 2 or more coils and read the freq of the PZT that way?
[21:40:18] <paul_c> Not sure if keystick parses PROGRAM_PREFIX
[21:40:29] <robin_sz> surely you can just read the PZT freq from the AC on its output?
[21:40:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does not know the shape of the element and cannot guess how many coils it would actually take.
[21:41:27] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: If you load the output of the pzt it will change the resonant freq.
[21:41:32] <les> robin yes
[21:41:44] <les> load is constant.
[21:41:55] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: yes, I know
[21:42:48] <les> This whole bit very likely will not be practical you know....
[21:42:56] <les> but I still get paid.
[21:43:08] <Phydbleep> les: Will it weld Al?
[21:43:26] <les> other way...need to generate power
[21:44:19] <robin_sz> * robin_sz suspects many tens of kv
[21:44:56] <les> I need 6 watts. any voltage.
[21:45:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a horrid thought of a diode ladder plugged into a 480V 3-phase main..
[21:45:47] <robin_sz> we cut some stell for some tanks this week
[21:45:47] <les> we do use diode ladders in fact
[21:45:53] <robin_sz> steel
[21:46:11] <robin_sz> oil tnaks in a 15kw / 100Kv PSU
[21:46:33] <robin_sz> the txfmr, multiplier and ballast are all in oil
[21:47:41] <les> we need 85 kv at the gun tip
[21:47:43] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would like to know what was cutting tank steel in Iraq.. >10" of armor plate went "WOOF!" and was gone in < 1 second..
[21:48:05] <les> shaped charge.
[21:48:05] <robin_sz> yeah?
[21:48:10] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:48:19] <robin_sz> or ...
[21:48:27] <robin_sz> well, there is one other thing ..
[21:48:44] <Phydbleep> les: Nope.. Longshot with a small dia copper ( they think) penetrator round.
[21:48:50] <robin_sz> was this US or "other" tanks getting hurt?
[21:48:52] <les> really
[21:49:38] <Phydbleep> M1A1... In through the port side of the hull and made a hole 2" deep in the starboard side.
[21:49:42] <robin_sz> there are some firly big battlefield lasers around now
[21:49:53] <robin_sz> ooh.
[21:54:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders what velocity that must be going at
[21:55:31] <Phydbleep> Mach "Oh Fsck" ?
[21:55:52] <anonimasu> evening everyone
[21:56:27] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: That translates to about "pucker factor 15"... :)
[21:56:32] <Phydbleep> anonimasu! :)
[21:57:23] <websys> Paul - did you ever carry the qtemc project further
[21:57:58] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: I'd guess it must be in tens of thousands of feet per second
[21:58:38] <anonimasu> I stopped working now :)
[21:59:28] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Well then go chase women! :)
[21:59:55] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: lol, there is no women over here
[22:00:03] <anonimasu> they are all too drunk to be outside
[22:00:23] <paul_c> websys: I was waiting on Ray & SWPadnos to come up with some GUIs so that I kenw what was needed for the slots
[22:00:30] <Phydbleep> drunk == no fun.. :\
[22:01:02] <jacky^> Phydbleep: drunk ?
[22:01:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu will be playing with a QT gui later someday
[22:01:16] <jacky^> better a drink ! :P
[22:01:20] <anonimasu> as soon as my workdays gets reduced to < 10 hours a day
[22:01:41] <anonimasu> paul_c: made any progress on the tp?
[22:05:33] <rayh> Hi guys. Got called away.
[22:08:05] <anonimasu> hello ray
[22:08:59] <jacky^> ciao rayh
[22:09:14] <paul_c> anonimasu: Yes.
[22:10:08] <anonimasu> paul_c: very nice :)
[22:10:08] <jacky^> rayh: ... i was thinking why not organize a meeting in italy? what do you think ?
[22:10:51] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: coo, the speed of flow in a typical shaped charge is arpound 12km/second ... no wonder it makes nice neat holes!
[22:12:48] <rayh> jacky^: What would it cost guys to get there.
[22:13:11] <jacky^> uhm..
[22:13:26] <jacky^> i can't pay the flly for they
[22:13:40] <les> oh no
[22:13:41] <jacky^> i can organize
[22:13:47] <anonimasu> les: evening
[22:13:50] <anonimasu> les: how's it going?
[22:13:50] <les> bet it is very nice there though
[22:13:57] <jacky^> in naples
[22:14:05] <jacky^> near rome
[22:14:07] <Phydbleep> Napoli! :)
[22:14:13] <les> oh ok...just working on the spray gun thing.
[22:14:33] <anonimasu> the piezo stuff right?
[22:14:38] <les> yeah
[22:14:39] <jacky^> maybe, we colus use a nice place where mi girlfriend work
[22:14:45] <jacky^> regione campania
[22:14:52] <anonimasu> nice
[22:14:59] <jacky^> a big hall
[22:15:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is drawing some stuff to prototype tomororw
[22:15:05] <anonimasu> tomorrow
[22:15:10] <jacky^> also
[22:15:42] <anonimasu> I am going to measure the flow if a small dia tube with a reed and a photodetector..
[22:15:56] <jacky^> i can give the voice in some forum, like robooitalia, to call people
[22:16:22] <jacky^> i think, shoul be a very interesting experience
[22:16:56] <jacky^> naples, also have an international airport
[22:17:16] <jacky^> so you could take a direct fly
[22:17:40] <jacky^> if you are inerested let me know please
[22:18:00] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would have to grow wings first..
[22:18:15] <anonimasu> if I had time I wouldnt mind :)
[22:18:39] <robin_sz> anonimasu: why?
[22:18:54] <robin_sz> anonimasu: you know there are "other" ways of measuring the flow ...
[22:19:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: oh, the flow is _very_ tiny..
[22:19:18] <robin_sz> there are ultrasound flow sensors you just put on the tube
[22:19:25] <robin_sz> ahh.
[22:19:30] <robin_sz> paddle wheel ?
[22:19:43] <anonimasu> not posible :) need to measure if the tube is stuck..
[22:19:55] <jacky^> rayh: my english is not so good, but i can find a good interpreter
[22:19:58] <jacky^> np
[22:20:18] <jacky^> let me know
[22:20:46] <Phydbleep> jacky^: I'd be more interested in a cute interpreter. :)
[22:20:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz reads up on shaped charge technology
[22:21:07] <les> I looked at a site for regione campania but cannot understand italian
[22:21:09] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the paddle wheen would work great but, I doubt there are that small ones
[22:21:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep concepts need no translation. :)
[22:21:17] <les> looked at the pictures though!
[22:22:16] <anonimasu> robin_sz: kind of a special application
[22:22:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders how 'So' was translated to '/' by the keyboard..
[22:22:25] <jacky^> Phydbleep: who can know ? maybe he cut interpreter are ypu searching is here..
[22:22:32] <les> anon....if delta p is over about 10 psi it is choked flow...constant mass flow rate
[22:23:00] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Is this for the seeder?
[22:23:20] <rayh> Okay. phone gotta get off for a while.
[22:23:31] <anonimasu> les: I have no pressure so I cant measure it :)
[22:23:39] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: yeah
[22:23:59] <jacky^> let me know how many people you want at the confernce and i'll find
[22:24:06] <les> no pressure? flow is zero. haha
[22:24:36] <anonimasu> les: almost no pressure.. :)
[22:24:51] <les> I don't quite understand what you want to do
[22:24:59] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: What size/mass are the seeds?
[22:25:13] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: 1,2mm about
[22:25:28] <les> and want to detect them?
[22:26:04] <anonimasu> nope, need to detect if a tube they go through is stuffed..
[22:26:59] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: How many seeds in a planting operation?
[22:27:23] <anonimasu> right now it's 6-10 per dose..
[22:27:34] <anonimasu> but it should be 1-2 after some re-designing
[22:29:05] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thinks 10mm Delrin or Teflon screw and cylinder nut with a 2mm slot down the length of it.
[22:29:06] <les> is one side of the tube pressurised?
[22:30:04] <anonimasu> les: hm, the tube leading to the ground.
[22:32:11] <les> well stuck seeds could easily be detected by capacitance....they musy mave moisture which gines a high dielectric constant
[22:32:16] <les> gives
[22:32:23] <anonimasu> hm, cant do that..
[22:32:38] <anonimasu> they move through a long tube to the ground...
[22:32:39] <les> because?
[22:33:01] <les> oh in the ground...
[22:33:10] <anonimasu> on the machine to the ground :)
[22:33:35] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Custom cut a teflon 10mm screw with a 2mm pitch.. Make a matching 10cm long nut and route a slot in it.. mount both in a 13mm ID pipe.
[22:33:42] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: what?
[22:33:48] <les> I don't see a problem...
[22:34:24] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: they are already running in full prodiction with the seed planting thing..
[22:34:26] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Metered/modified Archimedes screw..
[22:34:34] <Phydbleep> Ah. :\
[22:35:29] <les> I have a walk behind mechanical seeder. it uses different wheels for different seed types.
[22:36:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:37:53] <Phydbleep> I was thinking of interchangable tubes/screws for different sizes/shapes.
[22:39:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:39:30] <anonimasu> want to see what I had in mind for measuring the flow
[22:39:51] <les> I think we have an "it's already designed and in production" thing here?
[22:40:08] <les> yes what do you have in mind?
[22:40:44] <anonimasu> a membrane with a ir diode/detector...
[22:41:12] <anonimasu> I have a cad drawing of it..
[22:41:48] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Bounce the seed off the membrane and read the reflected pulse?
[22:41:57] <anonimasu> les: yeah, it's not in production yet, but the machine using it is..
[22:42:02] <les> would ir detector get fouled with dust from seeds?
[22:42:14] <anonimasu> les: I am not going to measure seeds with it..
[22:42:21] <anonimasu> les: just the flow down the feeder pipe
[22:42:21] <les> ?
[22:42:39] <les> air flow?
[22:42:43] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:42:59] <Phydbleep> les: Not if both are on the backside away from the seeds.
[22:43:58] <anonimasu> :)
[22:44:28] <les> hmmmm
[22:44:34] <les> curious.
[22:45:08] <les> I did the powder paint mass flow measurement in the hose thing for BMW.
[22:45:14] <les> expensive.
[22:45:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:46:16] <anonimasu> http://www.bojn.net/~an0n/fltest.jpg
[22:46:32] <les> unless the flow is very very slow a pitot static system will work.
[22:47:16] <anonimasu> it's very slow
[22:47:40] <anonimasu> and I am trying to avoid moving parts as much as possible
[22:48:19] <les> two capacitive sensors on the tube gives velocity...but only if seeds are there
[22:48:40] <anonimasu> oh, they go down the tube, but that wont tell me if they are stuck..
[22:48:53] <anonimasu> just the backpressure I get if the feed pipe is full..
[22:49:02] <les> it will pretty soon!
[22:49:14] <anonimasu> haha :)
[22:49:29] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Where are they getting stuck?
[22:49:30] <robin_sz> well ... call me silly,
[22:49:47] <les> ok. Robin you are silly.
[22:49:47] <robin_sz> but but enough flow down it and you wont need to worry about it being stuck :)
[22:49:48] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: it's on a machine working in the forest.
[22:49:55] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that'll break the seeds ;)
[22:50:37] <anonimasu> les: what do you think about that design for measuring the flow?
[22:50:43] <Phydbleep> D'Eaux! I know that.. Where in the tube? The top, bottom or middle?
[22:50:55] <les> the reed?
[22:50:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:51:07] <anonimasu> I dont have any sensors on the drawing
[22:51:12] <anonimasu> going to protope it tomorrow..
[22:51:22] <anonimasu> machine it out of plastic..
[22:51:25] <les> looks like something that will stop seeds...I don't understand
[22:51:48] <anonimasu> les the airflow goes in on one side, moves the reed..
[22:52:02] <anonimasu> the sensor tells me if the airflow is enough..
[22:52:20] <les> ok
[22:52:31] <anonimasu> based on the vibration of the membrane..
[22:53:11] <les> but will it vibrate?
[22:53:23] <anonimasu> since the flow from the fan is not constant it will
[22:53:42] <anonimasu> fan blades :)
[22:54:00] <les> well try it.
[22:54:15] <anonimasu> yeah, tomorrow
[22:54:22] <les> robin: cessna stall warning horn...
[22:54:24] <les> haha
[22:54:36] <jacky^> tomorrow= domani
[22:54:38] <anonimasu> les: got any idea if it will work?
[22:54:56] <anonimasu> I think it should, if you get a suitable materal for the membrane.
[22:55:23] <anonimasu> I guess I could make the design induce a vortex to make it vibrate..
[22:55:38] <A-L-P-H-A> beside through experimentation... how does one calculate the period rate?
[22:55:54] <les> could be made to....particularly if piezopolymer....but I would do it differently.
[22:56:03] <les> but what the heck...try it.
[22:56:30] <anonimasu> piezopolymer?
[22:56:45] <les> yeah let me get you a link.
[22:56:52] <anonimasu> does that generate electricity when you apply force on it?
[22:57:03] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, a plastic that reacts to electricity... changes shape
[22:57:04] <anonimasu> ie, oscilation..
[22:57:15] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: does it go the other way too?
[22:57:22] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, yeah.
[22:57:28] <A-L-P-H-A> well, it _could_
[22:57:28] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: very very neat..
[22:57:34] <les> http://www.msiusa.com/piezo/
[22:58:10] <les> I was on the phone with these guys...used the stuff for many years
[22:58:37] <anonimasu> nice
[22:58:44] <anonimasu> I wonder if I could get some stuff like that over here
[22:58:51] <les> sure
[22:58:58] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, you can generate electricity back out, but minimal.
[22:59:01] <A-L-P-H-A> it's like one directional.
[22:59:03] <les> it is used for a lot of things
[22:59:12] <anonimasu> sdt1 vibration sensor
[22:59:35] <les> ALPHA it can generate a good bit
[22:59:44] <les> used in vending machines...
[22:59:52] <anonimasu> I should CFD the design..
[22:59:53] <les> coin drops on it...
[23:00:05] <les> bigger voltasge with larger coins...
[23:00:09] <A-L-P-H-A> les, well... for signalling, yeah... but not for like generating useful power.
[23:00:10] <anonimasu> :)
[23:00:14] <les> voltage
[23:00:24] <anonimasu> err run it with a cfd application..
[23:00:32] <anonimasu> I could probably generate a vortex..
[23:00:38] <les> MIT is using it for power harvesting
[23:00:58] <anonimasu> that would probably work great
[23:01:06] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I signup to the wiki?
[23:01:14] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[23:01:31] <les> ah found the directions?
[23:01:50] <anonimasu> les: how did you measure the flow on the sprayguns?
[23:02:07] <anonimasu> les: the reason I was going to use a photodetector was because they are easily avaiable..
[23:02:11] <les> sound
[23:02:18] <anonimasu> ah ok
[23:02:30] <les> using what I call complex acoustic refractive index
[23:03:04] <les> it gives me air flow and powder mass flow
[23:03:29] <les> powder suspended in air affects sound propagation
[23:03:33] <anonimasu> a database with flow and mass
[23:03:40] <anonimasu> somthing like it right?
[23:04:04] <les> Wel a lot of fourier transforms and a computer program
[23:04:12] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:04:20] <les> not a database...it is directly calculated
[23:04:38] <anonimasu> ok
[23:05:05] <les> from pseudo rando sequences
[23:05:11] <les> works well
[23:05:13] <anonimasu> very cool :)
[23:05:16] <les> very expensive
[23:05:20] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:05:24] <les> random
[23:06:25] <les> I can detect dust, moisture, etc in gas flows through tubes easily
[23:06:45] <les> easily but expensively haha
[23:06:58] <anonimasu> haha
[23:07:20] <anonimasu> why is the method so expensive?
[23:07:29] <les> We use it to servo control the paint thickness on BMW automobiles.
[23:07:29] <robin_sz> * robin_sz knows why
[23:07:35] <les> ?
[23:07:35] <anonimasu> development or the cost of the hardware
[23:07:36] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:07:41] <robin_sz> its beacuse les eats so much
[23:07:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:07:47] <les> haha
[23:07:50] <robin_sz> and drives BMW's
[23:07:53] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:08:09] <anonimasu> I'd never buy a bmw..
[23:08:16] <les> development helped pay for one...that's for sure
[23:08:17] <anonimasu> I'd buy a cnc mill instead *grins*
[23:08:18] <robin_sz> oh, I like em
[23:08:40] <les> I am being silly and looking at audi a4s
[23:08:56] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is looking at older s4's
[23:09:06] <robin_sz> you mean skoda
[23:09:18] <anonimasu> maybe as a next car in some yeard
[23:09:19] <anonimasu> haha
[23:09:21] <anonimasu> audi s5
[23:09:23] <anonimasu> err s4
[23:09:26] <les> If you consult you have to have a nice car.
[23:09:41] <robin_sz> isnt the A4 3 cars in one?
[23:09:50] <robin_sz> an AUdi .. Skoda nad soemthing else
[23:09:51] <les> Drive up in a beater and the client will figure you are an idiot and failure.
[23:09:54] <robin_sz> VW?
[23:10:09] <les> ok ok vw a4.
[23:10:17] <les> haha
[23:10:18] <A-L-P-H-A> does EMC's ini file's max_velocity get overriden by the gcode file?
[23:10:39] <robin_sz> I forget which Skoda it is as well,
[23:11:01] <Phydbleep> VW/Audi/Porsche.
[23:11:13] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: no
[23:11:21] <robin_sz> used to be ...
[23:11:23] <les> anon I don't deserve an S4....too old.
[23:11:40] <anonimasu> :/
[23:11:45] <les> haha
[23:11:45] <robin_sz> Skoda Felicia if I remember right
[23:11:52] <A-L-P-H-A> this is incredibly slow... 0.08ips for my Z.
[23:12:06] <anonimasu> les: poor bastard
[23:12:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep used to have an Audi LS100 that was 95% Porsche under the hood.
[23:12:17] <les> heh
[23:12:37] <les> I had an AUDI 100 too!!!
[23:12:41] <A-L-P-H-A> you know... if I won couple of million $... and S4 would go into one of the garage bays.
[23:12:43] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[23:12:55] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:12:58] <anonimasu> I'd want a rs4
[23:13:05] <anonimasu> but the s4's are nicely priced..
[23:13:22] <les> Porsche sedans I call 'em
[23:13:29] <robin_sz> I'd be dangerous in anyting faster than what I have
[23:13:38] <A-L-P-H-A> damn... there's a kit car, that takes a Civic sport motor, and goes super damn quick... I forgot what it was called, it was one of the last eps of Top Gear from last year.
[23:13:44] <robin_sz> an old peugeot 306 diesel
[23:14:06] <anonimasu> the s4's ?
[23:14:11] <A-L-P-H-A> it was I think 15K quide or something...
[23:14:11] <Phydbleep> les: Hehehe.. I got pulled over on I-84 in NV doing 130 mph in mine..
[23:14:14] <les> a4 cabriolet is HORRIBLY expensive here...more than my bmw 325. Much more.
[23:14:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:14:35] <A-L-P-H-A> les, are you gay?
[23:14:52] <les> it is NOT a girl car!!
[23:14:57] <A-L-P-H-A> audi/vw cabs are for girls.
[23:14:59] <les> haha
[23:15:13] <robin_sz> a hairdressers car
[23:15:14] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[23:15:22] <les> blah haw
[23:15:40] <les> I like it. Guess I should be worried.
[23:15:43] <A-L-P-H-A> les, get a real mans convertible. Something with true muscle.
[23:16:07] <les> Hey I have a pickup truck too...gimme a break haw
[23:16:08] <A-L-P-H-A> Crossfire convertible is border line...
[23:16:11] <robin_sz> nah,
[23:16:16] <anonimasu> heh
[23:16:18] <robin_sz> muscle is no good ..
[23:16:22] <robin_sz> its handling that counts
[23:16:26] <Phydbleep> Tell that to the pissed off salesmen at the Porsche dealer.. I used to love to get on the freeway and play tag with the '85/'86 models.
[23:16:29] <anonimasu> awd + loads of hp
[23:16:30] <robin_sz> (assuming you can drive ;)
[23:16:48] <anonimasu> *grins*
[23:16:53] <robin_sz> hp is well down the list
[23:16:58] <A-L-P-H-A> hehehe... I freaked out the sales guy when I took a Jetta TDI out for a spin.
[23:17:09] <anonimasu> oh, will you still play tag with a 04 porsche?
[23:17:11] <A-L-P-H-A> pretty zippy cars...
[23:17:11] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:17:23] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: And what % o fthe time was it airborne?
[23:17:53] <A-L-P-H-A> ZERO. I just launched it off the line... hehehe. the deal plate just flew into his lap from off the dash board.
[23:18:05] <robin_sz> hp is useful if you can't drive ... and it will almost make up for it, but the guy who can drive, in a car that handles, wins hands down every time
[23:18:20] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: If I get to build the vehicle, I'd play tag with a McLaren. :)
[23:18:31] <anonimasu> les: do you know of any place to get piezo vibration sensors in single quantities?
[23:18:35] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: good luck :)
[23:18:48] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: it dosent quite matter though, it's not a mclaren... ;)
[23:19:07] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: lotus super seven?
[23:19:08] <anonimasu> perhaps?
[23:19:28] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Not really.. My design goes GEV at 35mph and free-flight at 180. :)
[23:19:36] <anonimasu> i would love to build one with the engine I have in my garage..
[23:19:46] <robin_sz> ive done a few track-days with friends .. now, that is funny. guys with porches and audi TTs turn up to play, and get humilaited by guys in old 205 GTis
[23:19:55] <Phydbleep> And that's on < 200 HP. :)
[23:20:09] <A-L-P-H-A> can I just add a line to .bashrc to set an alias? echo "alias emc=\"/usr/local/emc/generic.run\"">>.bashrc
[23:20:21] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:20:40] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: what is your design?
[23:20:47] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: .bashrc .profile either one.
[23:21:02] <anonimasu> that engine wont stop < 400hp if I ever get time to build it..
[23:21:41] <anonimasu> or well, with the stuff inside it might be 600 aswell, but that's ridiculous.. :)
[23:22:07] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: WIG (Wing In Ground-Effect) I want to build a 300kg three wheeled motorcycle with stub wings.
[23:22:26] <les> Was looking at neighbor's TT yesterday.
[23:22:26] <les> Did not drive it.
[23:22:55] <robin_sz> they handle nice
[23:22:58] <robin_sz> so I am told
[23:23:00] <anonimasu> I dont need that much hp..
[23:23:02] <A-L-P-H-A> this is so not good.
[23:23:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't log into my box now.
[23:23:11] <A-L-P-H-A> wth
[23:23:27] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Take an A-10 Warthog and section it down to about 7.5 feet wide.
[23:23:40] <les> He was going off to national guard drill...but I think it is too little for trips
[23:23:41] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: i dont know what that is..
[23:23:54] <anonimasu> * anonimasu loves having a tiny car
[23:24:04] <anonimasu> as long as you can fit 2 people with good space it's large enough
[23:24:12] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: A-10 == UGLY.
[23:24:14] <les> I like small cars too...but not too small
[23:24:20] <anonimasu> but well, I am considering getting a dog, hence the s4..
[23:25:16] <A-L-P-H-A> now I can log in.
[23:25:22] <A-L-P-H-A> that was messed
[23:25:24] <les> a back seat might be handy.
[23:25:32] <anonimasu> I have one but it's not for humans ;)
[23:25:33] <robin_sz> anonimasu: from my experience, 100~150 hp is the most "normal" people can handle. Give em more than that and ivite them to take it to the limit (ie wheels sliding during cornering) and things go worng too quickly for them, and they end up scared to push it hard ...
[23:25:37] <les> My truck has four seats too though.
[23:25:54] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's why you should have awd..
[23:26:08] <robin_sz> fsck no
[23:26:13] <robin_sz> that makes it WORSE
[23:26:24] <les> good in snow though.
[23:26:28] <robin_sz> yeah,
[23:26:36] <anonimasu> it depends on how the f/r distribution is ;)
[23:26:46] <robin_sz> but ever taken an AWD sprts to tyre-sliding time in the dry on good roads?
[23:26:53] <les> no
[23:26:55] <anonimasu> yes.
[23:26:56] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep prefers front wheel drive.
[23:27:00] <robin_sz> its fine .. until ...
[23:27:04] <robin_sz> it lets go
[23:27:13] <robin_sz> and, then it all seems to let go at the same time
[23:27:32] <robin_sz> mind ewe, it does seem to grip like shit to a blanket up to that point
[23:27:33] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's why you need _enough_ power..
[23:27:38] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: And if you punch it, it will spin faster. :)
[23:27:51] <les> BMW has a lot of throttle off oversteer by design...takes some getting used to
[23:28:00] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:28:02] <les> controllable if you know how to use it
[23:28:10] <robin_sz> I preer my little 306 ...
[23:28:19] <anonimasu> robin_sz: if you drop the pedal in a awd slide you die.
[23:28:21] <anonimasu> :)
[23:28:47] <Phydbleep> les: Yeah, I never sank my 2002 in the sand where the 4x4's would sink. :)
[23:28:59] <robin_sz> I reckon im fatser in that than most guys in "faster" cars .. because it handles and I can take it to "sqeaking poitn" reliably and predictably
[23:29:20] <les> I never took the course they offered when I bought the car...so don't know much about it. No breaking tires for me.
[23:30:07] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:30:57] <les> but you can do a lot without breaking the tire/road grip in one
[23:32:12] <anonimasu> YEP
[23:32:16] <anonimasu> err yes.
[23:32:17] <robin_sz> but ...
[23:32:21] <anonimasu> les: did you read my question?
[23:32:27] <robin_sz> you need to be able to know where that point it
[23:32:28] <robin_sz> is
[23:32:39] <les> It is not instinctive to stomp the gas when the rear goes on a curve but that is what you must do in a 325.
[23:32:59] <robin_sz> unless you know when it slide, you dont really know if you are 10% or 50% under
[23:33:20] <anonimasu> robin_sz: bad drivers shouldnt play :)
[23:33:23] <les> anon hmm which question?
[23:33:29] <jacky^> paltalk
[23:33:31] <jacky^> LOL
[23:33:34] <jacky^> :D
[23:33:42] <anonimasu> the second one I think
[23:33:52] <les> paltalk is good.
[23:33:57] <anonimasu> do you have any idea where to get piezo vibration sensors in single qts?
[23:34:00] <jacky^> les
[23:34:07] <robin_sz> anonimasu: but, its lots of fun to pass porches who get all worried in the bedny bits .. too scared to use their power
[23:34:14] <anonimasu> I dont really care for the sizes.. any size will do
[23:34:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: yeah
[23:34:20] <jacky^> join musica e allegria :D
[23:34:40] <jacky^> rotfl
[23:34:55] <les> anon: I have some in a box somewhwere. getting more samples soon. free.
[23:35:01] <anonimasu> nice
[23:35:30] <anonimasu> robin_sz: i LOVE when the kids in town try to play with their bmw's ;) and tag along me..
[23:35:32] <les> Call em. Tell em you are company chief enginerr. (you are I think). Free samples.
[23:35:55] <anonimasu> I usually never bother unless they get too close, for too long..
[23:36:07] <les> I are an engineer and can't even spell it.
[23:36:14] <robin_sz> anonimasu: yeah, likewise .. they keep up ok on the straights .. or try to pass .. but as soon as it gets twisty ... I lose em
[23:36:25] <anonimasu> then you floor it a bit and they takes the next intersection
[23:36:40] <anonimasu> in the opposite direction
[23:37:07] <robin_sz> well, in an old diesel .. its always floored
[23:37:14] <anonimasu> heh
[23:37:19] <robin_sz> the trick is, not to back off for the corners :)
[23:37:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:38:20] <anonimasu> I like awd sliding at winters, most people stop chasing you if you take some long nice corner just a bit sideways
[23:38:28] <robin_sz> yep
[23:38:50] <robin_sz> tyres and suspension beat hp if you can use them
[23:39:05] <anonimasu> I tried backing down once, in a corner, last winter.
[23:39:10] <les> um...can I do this in a girl car like A4 cabriolet too?
[23:39:14] <robin_sz> ruh roh
[23:39:21] <anonimasu> ended up in some snow :)
[23:39:36] <anonimasu> it was a very good lesson
[23:39:45] <anonimasu> err the winter before last one
[23:39:52] <robin_sz> les: no, I think having fun on roads has been banned in the USA
[23:40:08] <les> oh yeah...I forgot.
[23:40:33] <robin_sz> looks like we get satellite vehicle tagging here soon :(
[23:40:38] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:40:41] <anonimasu> that's horrid
[23:40:45] <fenn> my favorite vehicle ever constructed: http://www.fast-autos.net/suzuki/suzukiescudo.html
[23:41:26] <les> looks hot.
[23:41:26] <anonimasu> hm, perhaps I should call them up and ask for samples
[23:41:34] <anonimasu> nice car
[23:41:46] <fenn> its pretty ridiculous
[23:41:59] <anonimasu> fenn: function over form :)
[23:42:22] <les> yeah anon it's good stuff...looks like freezer wrap...pull on it with your hands...50 volts.
[23:43:01] <anonimasu> lol
[23:43:08] <les> in series with a few hundred pf
[23:43:15] <anonimasu> les: would that be impossible to use in your app?
[23:43:29] <anonimasu> les: hm, I need vibration one though
[23:43:36] <les> impedance is low which is good
[23:43:48] <les> conversion efficiency is very good
[23:43:51] <fenn> piezo saran wrap?
[23:43:55] <les> but Q is low
[23:44:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[23:44:16] <les> I have to use high Q tuned filters for impedance matching
[23:44:24] <anonimasu> why does the cad program fsck with me today
[23:44:25] <anonimasu> :)
[23:45:15] <les> piezopolymer bimorph flapper fans for cooling are common.
[23:45:56] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[23:46:09] <robin_sz> night ...
[23:46:35] <les> I need to go too
[23:46:44] <les> anon get some of that stuff
[23:47:39] <anonimasu> les: going to look at it some other day :)
[23:47:46] <les> k
[23:47:46] <anonimasu> going to run some simulations of this
[23:47:48] <les> later
[23:48:08] <anonimasu> going to create a vortex for the membeane to vibrate on
[23:48:22] <jacky^> umpf
[23:48:23] <anonimasu> laters
[23:48:24] <jacky^> :\
[23:49:11] <jacky^> anonimasu:
[23:49:12] <anonimasu> jacky^: why the :/
[23:49:28] <jacky^> bah...
[23:49:38] <jacky^> i don't know what to do
[23:49:43] <jacky^> umpf
[23:49:48] <anonimasu> with what?
[23:49:50] <jacky^> ufff
[23:50:01] <jacky^> in general
[23:50:13] <anonimasu> :(
[23:50:41] <jacky^> what are you doing ?
[23:51:08] <anonimasu> working
[23:51:15] <anonimasu> or well, playing around with a part for work
[23:51:59] <jacky^> uhm
[23:52:13] <jacky^> what time is it there ?
[23:52:24] <anonimasu> 01:49
[23:52:30] <jacky^> ugh
[23:52:43] <jacky^> also here !
[23:52:59] <jacky^> so.. we are brothers :P
[23:53:25] <anonimasu> haha
[23:53:30] <jacky^> ok, brothers= fratelli ok ?
[23:53:37] <jacky^> say fratelli..
[23:54:21] <jacky^> umpf
[23:54:35] <jacky^> how you say " che noia" ?
[23:54:57] <jacky^> when is tired
[23:55:27] <anonimasu> I am going to kill this damn trackball.
[23:55:36] <jacky^> why ?
[23:55:55] <jacky^> you kill trackball ?
[23:56:12] <jacky^> dont you like a keyboard ?
[23:56:19] <anonimasu> the mouse :9
[23:56:28] <jacky^> i know
[23:56:34] <anonimasu> my normal mouse is out of battery and I couldnt find the charger
[23:56:36] <jacky^> re you using kde ?
[23:56:57] <jacky^> as wm
[23:57:12] <jacky^> i like evilwm
[23:57:21] <jacky^> also ion
[23:57:28] <jacky^> it's a very good wm
[23:57:31] <anonimasu> no
[23:57:42] <jacky^> what ?
[23:57:44] <anonimasu> I am using openbox :)
[23:57:53] <jacky^> i dont' know..
[23:58:02] <jacky^> but sound familiar..
[23:58:24] <jacky^> primitive wm i think
[23:58:32] <jacky^> right ?
[23:58:35] <anonimasu> oh, as long as it's fast
[23:58:36] <anonimasu> :9
[23:58:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:58:59] <jacky^> wich cpu are u using ?
[23:59:02] <alpha> how do I remove the silly background in the shell? it's the one with pengiun footprints, and tux about the swat a butterfly.
[23:59:18] <alpha> alpha is now known as alpha_emc
[23:59:28] <jacky^> alpha_emc: ....
[23:59:35] <jacky^> wich distro ?
[23:59:38] <alpha_emc> debian.
[23:59:46] <alpha_emc> BDI 4.20 is what I'm using.