#emc | Logs for 2005-06-07

[00:00:26] <paul_c> Building in the emc/src/rs274_ngc directory or outside of the rcslib/emc tree ?
[00:00:37] <rayh> outside of it.
[00:00:56] <paul_c> with your own makefile ?
[00:00:59] <rayh> Does it need to be built in place.
[00:01:15] <rayh> One compile at a time.
[00:01:30] <rayh> based on tom's stuff in the pdf.
[00:02:58] <fenn> btw what compiler version are y'all using? i'm trying to compile the cvs right now
[00:03:21] <paul_c> gcc-2.95 & 3.3
[00:03:24] <fenn> i get a lot of errors on emcsh.cc and it does
[00:03:28] <fenn> dies
[00:09:50] <rayh> doxygen goes to work!
[00:11:01] <paul_c> g++ -o interp -lm canon_pre.cc driver.cc rs274ngc_pre.cc
[00:11:19] <paul_c> produces a working exe here.
[00:11:33] <rayh> looks like I need latex here also.
[00:12:17] <paul_c> did latex not get installed with doxygen ?
[00:22:53] <fenn> bah
[00:23:13] <fenn> ray do you still have the original text to User.pdf Integrator.pdf Developer.pdf
[00:23:43] <paul_c> fenn: SF - checkout documents
[00:24:10] <fenn> i have the .pdfs i just cant get the text out of them without it messing up
[00:24:40] <Jymmmm> fenn where are they?
[00:24:56] <paul_c> the originals were produced with LyX
[00:24:58] <fenn> sourceforge - click on "files"
[00:25:06] <fenn> documents.tar.gz or something like that
[00:25:17] <Jymmmm> emc.sf.net ?
[00:25:48] <fenn> sourceforge.net/projects/emc
[00:27:24] <fenn> would you believe that kpdf doesn't have the ability to copy text out of a pdf file?
[00:27:49] <Jymmmm> well, I can't find em
[00:28:21] <fenn> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/emc/emc-docs-1.0.0.pdf.tgz?download
[00:29:18] <Jymmmm> why do you need the text anyway?
[00:29:38] <fenn> i want to make a complete set of documentation on the wiki
[00:29:51] <fenn> instead of having documents scattered in 7 or 8 different places
[00:30:14] <fenn> i guess i could just upload the .pdfs to the wiki
[00:30:17] <Jymmmm> and the original format isn't available?
[00:30:31] <fenn> i dont know
[00:31:19] <paul_c> LyX will generate html files...
[00:31:44] <fenn> good
[00:32:21] <fenn> i also want to chop up the emc1 docs and use the relevant bits for the emc2 docs (which dont exist yet)
[00:34:13] <jacky^> night rayh , paul_c , Phydbleep , fenn , Jymmmm , night all
[00:34:23] <jacky^> * jacky^ +_+
[00:34:30] <Jymmmm> G'Night jacky^
[00:38:24] <Jymmmm> shouldn't the manual(s) be checked into CVS as well?
[00:39:02] <paul_c> nope, just the source files.
[00:39:05] <Phydbleep> What? Keep the docs up to date and with the app? BLASPHEMER!
[00:39:16] <Jymmmm> Phydbleep Damn right! =)
[00:40:02] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep can see that some people have entirely the wrong idea about linux..
[00:40:08] <Jymmmm> paul_c well unless you've got some other way of actually maintaing docs, CVS follows KISS.
[00:40:43] <Phydbleep> Kick Idiots Some Slack? :)
[00:40:55] <Jymmmm> Phydbleep linuxdoc.org!
[00:40:56] <paul_c> http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/euclid/elements/page010.html
[00:42:02] <Phydbleep> paul_c: It's all Greek to me..
[00:42:47] <Jymmmm> Phydbleep that's martian!
[00:42:58] <paul_c> Jymmmm: The documents module was set up by Ray.
[00:43:50] <paul_c> Unless someone goes screwing around with the interpreter, the docs should be fairly consistant and only require minor edits.
[00:45:12] <fenn> the documents module?
[00:45:13] <paul_c> Documentation for developers is better extracted from the src code - But that requires effort from everyone to use a common doxygen style
[00:45:14] <Jymmmm> module in what?
[00:45:31] <SWP_Away> CVS
[00:45:33] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[00:45:37] <paul_c> CVS @ SF has four "modules"
[00:45:45] <Jymmmm> ah
[00:45:50] <paul_c> documents, rcslib, emc, & emc2
[00:45:52] <rayh> or more.
[00:46:12] <Jymmmm> that's ok, I blame rayh
[00:46:28] <rayh> I think I wrote a bit about lyx and the repository a while back.
[00:46:49] <paul_c> Far from it - Ray did most of the documentation single handed.
[00:46:51] <rayh> Lyx is a very capable text editor that allows several output formats.
[00:47:12] <fenn> ah i didn't know about this little secret cache of documentation
[00:47:39] <rayh> Install Lyx on your box and try it there.
[00:47:55] <Jymmmm> why are things scattered between sf adn the website?
[00:47:59] <paul_c> fenn: To be honest, the documents module is only of use to the docs maintainer(s)
[00:48:47] <fenn> good question jymmm
[00:49:29] <paul_c> Open a LyX file in Word....
[00:49:35] <fenn> i'd think sourceforge would have a wiki type thing set up by now
[00:51:02] <SWPadnos> they do - it's CVS :)
[00:51:03] <paul_c> wiki is more an end usr resource.
[00:51:24] <fenn> cvs is really hard to learn for most people
[00:51:25] <paul_c> SF is geared towards the needs of developers.
[00:51:45] <Jymmmm> a dev needs a screenshot?
[00:51:50] <paul_c> fenn: Two commands - checkout & update
[00:51:59] <Jymmmm> Ha, ya right...
[00:52:20] <Jymmmm> CVS is a PITA setting up
[00:52:28] <paul_c> cobblers
[00:52:34] <SWPadnos> apt-get install cvs - seems easy to me
[00:52:45] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos setting up, not installing.
[00:52:59] <paul_c> client or server ?
[00:53:02] <SWPadnos> cvs create /cvsrot/foo foo
[00:53:05] <SWPadnos> something like that
[00:53:11] <Jymmmm> client. never played with server.
[00:53:25] <SWPadnos> Jymmmm: do you run Windows?
[00:53:26] <paul_c> apt-get install cvs
[00:53:40] <paul_c> client is set up automatically
[00:53:53] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos Yes, I tried that turtle , goat, whatever thing. no go
[00:53:58] <SWPadnos> tortoise
[00:54:05] <Jymmmm> yeah that's it.
[00:54:07] <Jymmmm> no go
[00:54:09] <paul_c> just leaves you with ssh to install (if you need secure connection)
[00:54:30] <SWPadnos> If you can't make that work, I don't see how the software youget with CVS would be useful to you (not trying to be an ass, it's true :) )
[00:54:31] <Jymmmm> already got putty for that
[00:54:55] <SWPadnos> how long ago did you try TortoiseCVS?
[00:54:56] <Jymmmm> s/code/docs/
[00:55:07] <Jymmmm> few months ago
[00:55:09] <paul_c> quit using the dark side.
[00:55:13] <SWPadnos> do you know the version?
[00:55:20] <SWPadnos> (hey - I need a new apprentice)
[00:55:23] <Jymmmm> can't recall.
[00:55:50] <SWPadnos> Well - 1.8.4, wich I got last week, just adds CVS options to the context menu in Explorer windows
[00:55:54] <SWPadnos> it's very cool
[00:56:00] <Jymmmm> it could have been a issue with the server as well, but I couldn't get into the one I needed to so I said forget it.
[00:56:21] <SWPadnos> ah
[00:56:51] <SWPadnos> it's actually pretty useful - explorer windows (and file open dialogs) show an overlaid icon to show the CVS status
[00:57:15] <SWPadnos> right-click in a sandbox directory, and there are options for update / checkout / checkin
[00:57:30] <SWPadnos> explorer windows have added columns for CVS version, CVS type, etc
[00:57:51] <Jymmmm> Yeah, I looked at it, think i actually connected to a server, but I didn't want to muck around too much.
[00:58:49] <paul_c> were you trying to connect to a cvs server as an anonymous usr ?
[00:59:03] <Jymmmm> nah, I had the login
[00:59:28] <paul_c> pserver or ext ?
[00:59:36] <Jymmmm> ?
[00:59:48] <fenn> paul, how long ago did you first learn to program?
[01:00:02] <paul_c> Hum...err...
[01:00:36] <fenn> right
[01:00:49] <paul_c> college - several years ago.
[01:01:19] <Jymmmm> alright, whos the bastard that wrote user.pdf?!
[01:01:22] <paul_c> tell a lie - Did some programming @ school.
[01:02:18] <Jymmmm> come on now, fess up!
[01:02:25] <paul_c> write program on a pre-printed form. Send off to the mainframe lab. wait three weeks for the punch cards & printout to come back.
[01:02:30] <fenn> damn i was hoping it was more like "oh i've been programming for the navy for 30 years"
[01:02:40] <paul_c> * paul_c gets seasick
[01:02:43] <fenn> oh, it is! joy!
[01:02:46] <SWPadnos> the navy hasn't known about computers for 30 years :)
[01:03:10] <paul_c> fenn: When did you start ?
[01:03:35] <SWPadnos> paul_c: real RAD back then, huh?
[01:03:56] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos JIT
[01:03:58] <fenn> well, qbasic in fifth grade (1993) c++ in high school (1999)
[01:04:11] <paul_c> fenn: Pup !
[01:04:12] <fenn> haven't touched it in between
[01:04:49] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm hasn't touched c since 18.. err nm
[01:04:56] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm hasn't touched c since 1866 err nm
[01:05:13] <SWPadnos> ah yes, 1866, it was a very good year
[01:05:20] <fenn> so anyway my point is you've been involved with computer programming for way longer than 99% of the people who would want to read the docs
[01:05:23] <paul_c> Babbage calculating engine ?
[01:05:35] <SWPadnos> more like reading Jules Verne
[01:05:44] <fenn> and those people have a hard time learning how to use cvs
[01:05:56] <SWPadnos> That was only a decoade or so after the invention of Portland cement
[01:05:58] <fenn> BUT we need an up-to-date document system
[01:06:23] <rayh> IMO we have one, you just won't use it!
[01:06:33] <fenn> huh!?!
[01:06:45] <SWPadnos> wikis are good for gathering anecdotal information, and capturing information that might otherwise be lost
[01:06:57] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure they are the best for reference material
[01:07:01] <fenn> rayh what are you talking about
[01:07:11] <Jymmmm> what fenn said
[01:07:15] <paul_c> <personal opinion> CVS is not the primary source for end users.
[01:07:42] <rayh> Up to date. LyX, latex, tex, is how many scientific journals are published these days.
[01:07:44] <Jymmmm> paul_c True, but docs in cvs could be build to a manual every so often
[01:08:01] <paul_c> Jymmmm: So set up a cron job.
[01:08:05] <fenn> rayh what i meant by up-to-date was "concurrent"
[01:08:06] <rayh> It isn't the system that is dated it is the text that need to be brought forward.
[01:08:32] <rayh> Oh CVS again.
[01:08:58] <fenn> something like CVS but easier to use... like wiki's but automatic
[01:09:05] <Jymmmm> rayh CVS for docs only as a 'nothing else' sorta thing
[01:09:16] <paul_c> The way I see it, there are two main document sources.
[01:09:38] <paul_c> pdf/htnl user docs generated from the LyX sources
[01:09:58] <paul_c> and html/pdf API notes for programmers.
[01:10:26] <paul_c> The latter being extracted from the C/C++ source code with doxygen
[01:10:54] <fenn> but... you need an additional set of docs for new programmers to explain what the hell is going on
[01:11:27] <fenn> and by "new programmers" i mean "someone who didn't write the code in the first place"
[01:12:12] <fenn> doxygen is a good reference tool but it doesn't explain anything in english
[01:12:18] <rayh> Lyx, along with the cvs stuff is available for those other OS's.
[01:13:28] <paul_c> IF the source code had copious comments with suitable tags, doxygen could extract considerable information.
[01:14:01] <rayh> Jymmmm: Where did you find that user.pdf doc?
[01:14:33] <paul_c> http://sherline.com/emc/User_Handbook.pdf ?
[01:15:45] <fenn> oh so sherline is another source of docs!
[01:16:31] <paul_c> (followed the link from linuxcnc.org)
[01:16:31] <SWPadnos> it's impossible to centralize all documents - this is an open source project, and different people will publish any documents they choose
[01:16:41] <rayh> No I wrote that one also.\
[01:17:09] <rayh> Joe martin wrote the Sherline specific programming stuff.
[01:17:53] <rayh> He told me this morning that they have more than 500 units out.
[01:18:02] <SWPadnos> cool
[01:19:25] <rayh> I'd really like to get you guys writing stuff with Lyx and replacing the junk I wrote long years ago.
[01:19:44] <paul_c> BTW Got a fix for that annoying little jump on the initial power on with the bdi-4 build.
[01:19:58] <fenn> ooh what's that paul?
[01:20:45] <fenn> rayh lyx seems more for creating a finished manual.. but emc2 is still in "beta" even though i think its more like pre-alpha
[01:21:34] <paul_c> fenn: So you're bitchin' about emc2 documentation rather than the EMC[1] docs ?
[01:21:49] <paul_c> i.e. HAL & Co.
[01:22:15] <rayh> The nice thing about lyx is that it edits really well. You can start a doc anyplace and not have to redo.
[01:22:29] <rayh> just re format and re arrange.
[01:22:47] <rayh> I'm not knocking wiki as a place to start though.
[01:22:57] <fenn> well, emc1 is finished.. the docs are finished.. the docs match what's there
[01:22:58] <paul_c> rayh: You really ought to get Joe & Craig converted to LyX rather than M$ editors.
[01:23:04] <rayh> It does have some advantages in ease of creating ideas.
[01:23:25] <fenn> it's not obvious where to look for them right now
[01:23:29] <rayh> Yes I should. But I know a lost cause when I see one.
[01:23:36] <fenn> and they're based around a printed manual format which is hard to use on a computer
[01:24:46] <rayh> to look for what?
[01:24:58] <paul_c> which is why LyX can generate HTML, PDF, doc, rtf, etc.
[01:25:23] <fenn> paul_c, a quote from Joe Martin: The Microsoft Word® program that I used was as much as a work of art as the marvelous cathedrals of the 17th century. We just haven’t acknowledged it yet.
[01:25:50] <fenn> no shit
[01:26:25] <paul_c> fenn: The gods of previous religions are the devils in the new.
[01:26:41] <fenn> unless you're catholic
[01:27:59] <paul_c> probably best not to discuss religion - Might offend a few with my opinions.
[01:28:07] <fenn> yeah
[01:28:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:29:14] <paul_c> anyways - Time for me to go.
[01:29:26] <fenn> nite
[01:30:12] <dan_falck> hi guys
[01:30:21] <SWPadnos> hiya
[01:30:30] <dan_falck> just reading back a bit
[01:30:41] <rayh> hey Dan.
[01:30:49] <dan_falck> fenn: Lyx is cross platform compatable
[01:30:54] <dan_falck> hi Ray
[01:30:59] <dan_falck> and free
[01:31:15] <dan_falck> I've got it here on my Mac
[01:31:31] <dan_falck> It comes on teh BDI disks
[01:31:59] <rayh> We had to leave it off the 4.20.
[01:32:12] <dan_falck> oh that's right :)
[01:32:27] <dan_falck> but you can add it easy enough with apt-get...
[01:33:02] <dan_falck> so to me, it appears to be a good way to go
[01:33:10] <fenn> dan_falck why does it matter to me if lyx is cross-platform? i dont have any windows/macs
[01:33:26] <dan_falck> it should matter because ray and co are using it
[01:35:24] <fenn> rayh i notice that the user.pdf docs in the cvs are in separate files by section.. is there an option to turn these into separate html files linked to by a table of contents?
[01:36:17] <rayh> I believe so but you'd need to look at lyx2html or hevea and see how.
[01:36:42] <rayh> I've seen quite a few web and reference things done that way.
[01:36:56] <rayh> That is why I wrote them as chapters.
[01:41:06] <rayh> gotta run. catch you later.
[02:11:20] <fenn> cradek, what do yout think about writing a "conversational programming" layer in python, to make common g-code stuff easier and more intuitive?
[02:11:24] <fenn> doh!
[02:16:47] <SWPadnos> heh -that was funny-ish :)
[02:18:12] <fenn> it was pretty good timing.. within a second
[02:19:20] <Jymmmm> but cradek isn't cradek_
[02:21:05] <fenn> so he isn't
[02:22:23] <fenn> i wish compilers just told you what to do when they gave an error
[02:22:35] <SWPadnos> the DWIM interface :)
[02:25:49] <fenn> that comes awfully close to the LyX gimmick
[02:25:59] <SWPadnos> DWI?
[02:26:02] <SWPadnos> DWIM?
[02:26:05] <fenn> WYSIWYM
[02:26:15] <SWPadnos> WYMIWMYSWYW
[02:26:31] <fenn> what you see is what you mean
[02:26:33] <SWPadnos> What You Mean Is What Makes You See What You Want
[02:26:44] <SWPadnos> ROWOCUI
[02:27:03] <SWPadnos> Regardless Of Whether Others Can Understand It
[02:27:18] <fenn> damn WTF never works :)
[02:27:22] <SWPadnos> indeed
[02:27:42] <SWPadnos> there was a funny line on bash.org
[02:27:52] <SWPadnos> a guy said "what the fuck does WTF mean?"
[02:28:17] <fenn> what is boelube made from?
[02:28:31] <SWPadnos> I have no idea - never heard of it
[02:28:35] <fenn> boeings!
[02:28:40] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:29:05] <SWPadnos> (I was actually going to say that, but thought better of it)
[02:31:33] <SWPadnos> argh - gotta run. see you later
[02:31:45] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[04:04:33] <fenn> wooo! emc compiles! mwahahaha
[04:04:44] <fenn> emc2 that is
[04:49:22] <asdfqwega> logger_aj, bookmark
[04:49:22] <asdfqwega> See
[04:52:58] <fenn> asdfqwega know any place to get cool g-code sample files?
[06:32:35] <ValarQ> morning folks
[06:33:26] <Phydbleep> Morning. :)
[06:41:47] <asdfqwega> Wheee!
[06:42:29] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is calculating next step in CNC upgrade of mill - the combo-leadnut replacement
[06:43:00] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: This toolpost is the shiznit. :)
[06:43:06] <asdfqwega> Grrr...I'm going to have to start with a 2x3x5" block of steel and whittle it down
[06:43:41] <asdfqwega> Phydbleep: Glad you like it
[06:43:54] <asdfqwega> Phydbleep: Now send me lots of money :P
[06:44:42] <asdfqwega> Heh...two labradors and a buckets of pennies...heheh, that was good
[06:45:02] <Phydbleep> I threw in a carbide insert holder and got 1 20+ foot long chip off the side of a test round with a ~ 3" traverse. :)
[06:45:42] <Jymmmm> Phydbleep lies! all lies!
[06:45:51] <asdfqwega> Only 20'? didn't you lead it out the door and down the street? You can get it much longer that way
[06:46:39] <Jymmmm> G'Night Folks!
[06:46:51] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: I ran out of stock.. I was cutting away from the chuck. :)
[06:47:53] <asdfqwega> Yeah, better stick with the regular stock...chucks are expensive to be turning down to make parts from :)
[06:49:08] <asdfqwega> Phydbleep: Tested everything but the rambus board - it all seems to work OK
[06:50:00] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: Yeah, that's from my junque.. I threw out all the junk.. :)
[06:50:28] <asdfqwega> junque = junk +1
[06:51:09] <Phydbleep> Well.. I've still got a pile of proprietary 4meg 72pin IBM dimms someplace.
[06:51:35] <asdfqwega> You read a scroll named ANNOD ELLAB <more>
[06:51:49] <asdfqwega> You junk glows blue for a moment
[06:53:44] <Phydbleep> Hmmm.. .That's odd.. That pile shouldn't glow blue.. It should have an malevolent green glow..
[06:55:06] <asdfqwega> Hey, if YOU want to be the DM, go right ahead
[06:55:37] <Phydbleep> No, I just know what I buried and where it should be. :)
[06:57:06] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega is away - gotta find some allergy relief :(
[06:57:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sympathises..
[06:58:04] <ValarQ> * ValarQ takes the first sip of the days first cup of coffee
[06:58:40] <Phydbleep> That's part of why I want cnc.. I'm sick of trying to set/read dials and sneeze at the same time. :)
[07:26:00] <alex_joni> morning
[07:26:44] <ValarQ> morning
[07:26:53] <alex_joni> hey ValarQ
[07:26:57] <alex_joni> how's the crappy stuff?
[07:26:58] <alex_joni> :D
[07:27:11] <ValarQ> i'll make a screenshot...
[07:27:14] <alex_joni> ok
[07:27:28] <alex_joni> btw, when you start to add hal modules
[07:27:30] <alex_joni> let me knoe
[07:27:33] <alex_joni> know even
[07:27:37] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[07:28:19] <ValarQ> and as an answer to your earlier question, no i won't translate it to swedish
[07:28:30] <alex_joni> ;)
[07:28:49] <ValarQ> maybe a bork edition for mr Padnos ;)
[07:31:49] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[07:31:54] <alex_joni_away> I'll be back later
[07:32:36] <ValarQ> c u
[08:21:04] <jacky^> morning
[08:25:12] <ValarQ> g'day
[08:31:14] <jacky^> hi ValarQ :)
[10:32:24] <jacky^> re
[10:33:33] <ValarQ> 'lo
[10:34:14] <jacky^> halo ValarQ
[11:20:24] <les> morning all
[11:20:33] <ValarQ> les: g'day :)
[11:20:42] <les> just reported some ebay/paypal scams
[11:20:49] <les> boy they look real!
[11:21:18] <A-L-P-H-A> les, they usually do. :)
[11:21:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd be happy to try and log in with fake shit... and get them and their IP logged by paypal instead.
[11:21:46] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[11:23:35] <les> the scam site is still up after a day or two
[11:27:30] <les> All the buttons link to real ebay so it looks legit
[11:58:40] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[11:59:07] <alex_joni> hello
[12:00:16] <ValarQ> 'lo
[12:01:59] <alex_joni> hey Daniel ;)
[12:02:51] <ValarQ> ow, he found out my first name
[12:03:06] <ValarQ> not often one gets to hear that :)
[12:04:21] <ValarQ> i'm usually called Vq by my friends and Sergeant Nilsson at work :)
[12:05:44] <alex_joni> Sergent Nilsson ;)
[12:05:46] <alex_joni> I like that
[12:05:48] <alex_joni> :)
[12:05:54] <alex_joni> hey Sarge :))
[12:06:36] <ValarQ> i'm not working for the military any longer thought
[12:06:49] <alex_joni> oh.. so you did?
[12:07:05] <ValarQ> yeah
[12:08:08] <ValarQ> in the swedish navy :)
[12:09:27] <alex_joni> cool
[12:18:15] <alex_joni> any of you ever heard/run ProEngineer?
[12:20:55] <ValarQ> i tested it a long time ago in school
[12:21:08] <alex_joni> I have some ProEngineer files
[12:21:18] <alex_joni> and I don't know what to use to convert them
[12:21:42] <ValarQ> :/
[12:22:17] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[12:22:25] <alex_joni> yo jacky^
[12:33:06] <jepler> argh. the bdi install I left running last night says "install exited abnormally"
[12:33:33] <jepler> "The error was 'BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)'."
[12:33:34] <alex_joni> bugger
[12:33:42] <alex_joni> jepler: not nice
[12:33:43] <alex_joni> :(
[12:37:08] <jepler> oh well, I'll give up for now. Clearly bdi is not going to work under qemu, even just for testing a frontend.
[12:39:55] <alex_joni> brb
[12:43:53] <ValarQ> weehoo, something works
[12:58:13] <jacky^> lost connection :\
[13:11:47] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[13:11:54] <ValarQ> WIP preview :D
[13:15:03] <jacky^> nice
[13:15:45] <ValarQ> at least it is getting some info from halcmd and displays it's name...
[13:15:56] <jacky^> :)
[13:25:44] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[13:31:10] <alex_joni> ValarQ: nice
[13:31:33] <alex_joni> so you started to make it interactive?
[13:31:43] <ValarQ> yeah
[13:32:02] <ValarQ> i'm doing the table thingie for displaying the pins in a component now
[13:32:28] <alex_joni> I wonder if it wouldn't be easier to have it like an schem. editor only
[13:33:29] <ValarQ> maybe...
[13:33:47] <ValarQ> it would require more knowledge about the modules thought
[13:36:14] <alex_joni> ValarQ: like what?
[13:36:31] <alex_joni> you gotta know the pins on them
[13:36:39] <alex_joni> pin name, type, direction
[13:38:01] <ValarQ> i don't think i understood what you meant by schem
[13:38:17] <alex_joni> like an schematic editor does
[13:38:23] <alex_joni> based on a library
[13:38:33] <alex_joni> you take components (in this case hal modules)
[13:38:37] <alex_joni> and connect them with wires
[13:38:47] <alex_joni> and in the end you parse a .hal file
[13:39:07] <ValarQ> then you need information on the capabilities of the components
[13:39:11] <alex_joni> kinda like an off-line thingy
[13:39:16] <alex_joni> right
[13:39:58] <ValarQ> this program is a lot simpler i itself, it's more or less a small wrapper to halcmd
[13:40:08] <alex_joni> I see
[13:40:18] <alex_joni> that works too
[13:40:24] <alex_joni> didn't think of it that way ;)
[13:40:30] <ValarQ> :)
[13:41:09] <ValarQ> when you insert a stepgen component you get to chose the types packed in the cfg parm etc
[13:41:21] <ValarQ> and then my program only lists the pins generated
[13:41:56] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is of to hunt down some food
[13:43:41] <alex_joni> great
[13:43:58] <alex_joni> and don't forget a play/pause button for hal operation
[14:33:16] <ValarQ> mein got
[14:33:40] <ValarQ> that can only happen in sweden...
[14:34:04] <alex_joni> mein gott
[14:34:06] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:34:09] <alex_joni> what?
[14:34:24] <ValarQ> a discution about meatballs
[14:34:33] <alex_joni> nice
[14:34:57] <ValarQ> somebody cooked them in soap...
[14:35:20] <alex_joni> in soap?????
[14:35:27] <ValarQ> i think i should quit listening to some irc channels...
[14:36:40] <ValarQ> or some sort of detergent...
[14:36:42] <alex_joni> lol
[14:38:11] <paul_c> pow(a, 1/sqrt(5));
[14:38:30] <alex_joni> paul_c: hello
[14:39:33] <ValarQ> paul_c: what's that?
[14:40:05] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/someplot.png
[14:40:28] <ValarQ> some servo sequence?
[14:41:03] <paul_c> a rough approximation for the accel curve
[14:41:09] <ValarQ> ok
[14:41:51] <alex_joni> paul_c: doesn't it start too abrupt?
[14:42:27] <alex_joni> it should be a-pow(a, 1/sqrt(5)) ?
[14:44:09] <paul_c> not if it is one point of a quintic
[14:55:57] <SWP_Away> alex_joni: wouldn't that just be pow(a,1+(1/sqrt(5)))
[14:56:03] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:56:49] <stevestallings2> stevestallings2 is now known as steve_stallings
[15:06:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:06:46] <alex_joni> bye guys
[15:17:28] <jepler> all of those curves have derivatives (first in the case of pow(a,1/sqrt(5)), higher in other cases) that go to infinity at a=0. That can't be what you want.
[15:40:24] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[15:40:51] <ValarQ> oh, mr Joni is away
[15:40:56] <SWPadnos> cool - you're really moving fast on this one :)
[15:42:42] <SWPadnos> could you post a .tar.gz file with the source to crapplication (or crapahalic)?
[16:08:35] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: sure
[16:08:46] <SWPadnos> thanks
[16:09:09] <SWPadnos> (I'm too lazy to boot up the Linux machine, and WinZip doesn't handle bzip files :) )
[16:10:20] <ValarQ> oh
[16:10:49] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.tar.gz
[16:10:53] <ValarQ> this might do then
[16:11:11] <ValarQ> it depends on pygtk and gnome-python to run
[16:12:40] <SWPadnos> That's OK - I just wanted to look at the code as an example of python
[16:13:08] <ValarQ> ok, don't know if my gui crapcode is the best example thought
[16:13:25] <SWPadnos> heh - at least I know what its' doing :)
[16:17:43] <jacky^> hi
[16:19:31] <jacky^> ugh :\ i get a flipped job !
[16:20:55] <jacky^> should i exchange AA with BB position ?
[16:21:07] <jacky^> of the stepper motor
[16:21:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm - sounds like you need to change the INPUT_SCALE and OUTPUT_SCALE on one axis
[16:21:33] <jacky^> hi SWPadnos
[16:21:38] <SWPadnos> hi
[16:21:44] <jacky^> input scale again ? :\
[16:21:49] <SWPadnos> which way is it flipped (X or Y)?
[16:21:56] <jacky^> x
[16:22:02] <jacky^> maybe also y
[16:22:15] <SWPadnos> then change the sign of the X input and output scale
[16:22:49] <jacky^> input scale should be the same of output scale ?
[16:22:49] <SWPadnos> this is a gantry-type router, right?
[16:22:56] <jacky^> yeah
[16:23:10] <SWPadnos> OK, so the spindle moves, not the workpiece
[16:23:20] <SWPadnos> (not the table)
[16:23:34] <jacky^> no.. x move the table
[16:23:42] <SWPadnos> Ok.
[16:23:50] <jacky^> so move also thw workpiece
[16:24:05] <SWPadnos> OK, and Y moves the gantry?
[16:24:18] <SWPadnos> you had a photo, right?
[16:24:23] <jacky^> yes
[16:25:14] <SWPadnos> where is the photo (on roboitalia)?
[16:25:25] <jacky^> http://www.roboitalia.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=thumbnails&album=75
[16:26:18] <SWPadnos> OK - if you program a positive X move, which way does the table go?
[16:26:19] <jacky^> i'm using mill_mm_freq.ini
[16:26:53] <jacky^> uhmm can i try to run a command
[16:27:16] <SWPadnos> sure - the one from yesterday G21 G91 G1 X+50 F200
[16:27:16] <jacky^> G1 x+10 F100 it's right ?
[16:27:24] <SWPadnos> sure
[16:27:26] <jacky^> ok
[16:27:34] <SWPadnos> remember the G91 for relative motion
[16:27:49] <jacky^> ok
[16:29:31] <jacky^> it move and go in the direction of x motor stepper (near)
[16:29:43] <jacky^> from home go near the motor
[16:29:48] <SWPadnos> OK - the table gets closer to the X drive motor
[16:29:57] <SWPadnos> as it moves in the positive direction
[16:30:11] <jacky^> then, move right ?
[16:30:26] <jacky^> correct ?
[16:30:30] <SWPadnos> the table should get closer to the motor for a plus move
[16:30:36] <SWPadnos> so this looks right
[16:30:45] <SWPadnos> do the same move in Y
[16:30:55] <jacky^> ok
[16:30:58] <SWPadnos> the spindle should move away from the Y stepper
[16:31:54] <jacky^> y move the same as x
[16:32:00] <SWPadnos> toeard the motor?
[16:32:04] <SWPadnos> toward
[16:32:14] <jacky^> not away from the y stepper
[16:32:30] <SWPadnos> OK - that needs to be changed
[16:32:36] <SWPadnos> let's check Z as well
[16:32:39] <jacky^> ah !
[16:32:43] <jacky^> ok..
[16:32:50] <SWPadnos> a positive Z move should move the spindle up
[16:33:20] <jacky^> it go up
[16:33:25] <SWPadnos> good
[16:33:40] <SWPadnos> then put minus signs in front of the Y input scale and output scale
[16:33:44] <jacky^> so, Y move in a wrong direction
[16:33:54] <SWPadnos> yep - that ives you a mirror image
[16:34:00] <SWPadnos> gives
[16:35:03] <jacky^> the ini file is working with mm as units
[16:35:08] <SWPadnos> good
[16:35:13] <jacky^> first axis,
[16:35:37] <jacky^> input scale 200.000 0
[16:35:51] <SWPadnos> that's the Y axis?
[16:36:04] <jacky^> ouput scale 200.000 0.000
[16:36:14] <jacky^> this is the X axis
[16:36:30] <SWPadnos> Ok (don't change that one :) )
[16:36:50] <jacky^> it move 5 cm with G1 x+50 F100
[16:36:58] <jacky^> seem right
[16:37:07] <SWPadnos> yep - that's right
[16:38:01] <jacky^> second axis, instead, with the same value of input /output scale travel at the 50% of X axis
[16:38:18] <jacky^> so, it use as input scale 400
[16:38:29] <SWPadnos> but it's the same screw thread?
[16:38:34] <jacky^> sure
[16:38:47] <SWPadnos> do you have half-stepping enabled on the Y driver?
[16:38:48] <jacky^> also same step
[16:38:59] <jacky^> the controller are the same
[16:39:11] <jacky^> no half stepping enabled
[16:39:45] <SWPadnos> hmm - that sounds weird
[16:39:52] <jacky^> uhm
[16:39:56] <jacky^> maybe not !
[16:40:00] <jacky^> sorry...
[16:40:04] <jacky^> :)
[16:40:09] <jacky^> i'm a stupid..
[16:40:21] <SWPadnos> heh - happens to me all the time :)
[16:40:24] <jacky^> i'm going to check
[16:40:40] <SWPadnos> change the sign on Y while you're at it
[16:41:03] <jacky^> shoul i invert AA with BB ?
[16:41:14] <SWPadnos> ?
[16:41:34] <SWPadnos> if Y is 200 0, then change it to -200 0
[16:41:43] <jacky^> ah, yes, ok
[16:41:59] <SWPadnos> both input and output
[16:42:25] <jacky^> ok,
[16:42:38] <SWPadnos> I
[16:42:50] <SWPadnos> I'll be back in a minute - got to get more coffee
[16:43:17] <jacky^> ok, tnx a lot SWPadnos
[16:59:53] <SWPadnos> bene
[17:00:02] <SWPadnos> it works, I assume :)
[17:00:25] <jacky^> hehe
[17:00:29] <jacky^> i think so
[17:02:10] <jacky^> i changed 200 in -200 for y and move right
[17:02:33] <SWPadnos> good deal
[17:03:40] <jacky^> ;-)
[17:18:32] <jacky^> SWPadnos: 100 % working right
[17:20:06] <jacky^> uff :\
[17:20:15] <SWPadnos> heh - mis-click?
[17:20:21] <jacky^> SWPadnos: 100 % working good :D
[17:20:35] <SWPadnos> I got that (and then an immediate disconnect :) )
[17:20:38] <jacky^> it's my adsl that work bad :\
[17:20:43] <SWPadnos> bummer
[17:21:22] <jacky^> i'm not sure about my period variable setted in .ini file..
[17:21:37] <SWPadnos> what do you think is wrong?
[17:22:01] <jacky^> mybe to low, sometimes some application go in crash
[17:22:18] <jacky^> i'm using a celeron 800
[17:22:19] <SWPadnos> what is it set to, and what CPU do you have?
[17:22:39] <SWPadnos> what video card?
[17:22:47] <jacky^> PERIOD = 0.00002
[17:23:06] <SWPadnos> that should be OK, depending on the system board
[17:23:13] <jacky^> ah,, video card it's an ole nvidia tnt 16 mb (agp)
[17:23:23] <SWPadnos> good - how much RAM
[17:23:35] <jacky^> 256 mb
[17:23:43] <SWPadnos> that should be fine :)
[17:23:47] <jacky^> yes
[17:24:13] <SWPadnos> what happens if you increase PERIOD to 0.000025?
[17:24:13] <jacky^> linux also have a big swap (500 mb)
[17:24:28] <jacky^> i've not tried this
[17:24:29] <SWPadnos> swapping doesn't matter for the RT tasks
[17:24:48] <SWPadnos> they can't get swapped out, since they're part of the kernel
[17:25:00] <jacky^> i also activated verbose debug
[17:25:13] <SWPadnos> that will slow things down, I think
[17:25:17] <jacky^> 0x7FFFFFFFF
[17:25:34] <SWPadnos> I have a celeron 500 with video on the motherboard, and 512M
[17:25:37] <jacky^> but can't see important mesg when crash
[17:25:44] <SWPadnos> I can run PERIOD at 20 uS just fine.
[17:26:00] <jacky^> it's ok..
[17:26:20] <SWPadnos> I don't remember - are you using emc1 or emc2?
[17:26:34] <jacky^> emc1, bdi 4.20
[17:26:36] <SWPadnos> (must be 1, or it would be BASE_PERIOD)
[17:27:01] <SWPadnos> OK - I have 4.18 on my celeron, so it should be the same
[17:27:20] <jacky^> right
[17:27:39] <jacky^> maybe my hw ..
[17:27:58] <SWPadnos> actually, if the period is too small, then the GUI will get sluggish as soon as you run EMC, so that's probably not the problem
[17:28:09] <jacky^> i suspect on memory ram
[17:28:12] <SWPadnos> you should run memtest for a day or so
[17:28:40] <jacky^> good idea
[17:28:53] <SWPadnos> make sure to turn on all tests
[17:29:11] <jacky^> yeah
[17:30:28] <jacky^> i would like to use emc2, but i'm new to compiler, so i'll waiting for a good time :)
[17:40:42] <SWPadnos> I think the latest emc2 in CVS compiles just fine on BDI 4.xx
[17:40:57] <SWPadnos> if you have the comiler set up for compiling emc1, that is :)
[17:48:00] <jacky^> :-)
[17:48:17] <jacky^> will try..
[18:01:51] <SWPadnos> oops - there is one extra requirement for emc2 - libgtk-devel-1.2 or something like that
[18:03:10] <SWPadnos> that's only for the utilities, though - halscope and halmeter
[18:04:46] <jacky^> i taked a note :P
[18:04:50] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[18:05:33] <jacky^> hi anonimasu
[18:05:54] <anonimasu> hello
[18:05:56] <anonimasu> how are you doing?
[18:06:27] <jacky^> i'm using a machine to drill
[18:06:40] <jacky^> all wel
[18:06:40] <ValarQ> :-O
[18:06:44] <jacky^> hehe
[18:07:13] <ValarQ> jacky^: i must try that someday :)
[18:07:29] <jacky^> nice
[18:07:47] <jacky^> i built my machine in about 2 mounth..
[18:07:58] <jacky^> bsometimes night and day :\
[18:08:40] <jacky^> but very funny :D
[18:09:32] <ValarQ> i have a similar project with a friend of mine
[18:09:55] <jacky^> nice
[18:09:56] <ValarQ> we are trying to get it good enough to mill pcb cards
[18:10:42] <jacky^> uhm
[18:11:05] <jacky^> i found very pretty the iron and laser printer for pcb
[18:11:19] <jacky^> i made my controllers
[18:11:27] <jacky^> very simple
[18:11:50] <ValarQ> iron printer?
[18:12:15] <jacky^> i first printed the pcb scale 1:1 with laser printer
[18:12:24] <jacky^> after i used an iron
[18:12:54] <jacky^> i don't know how to explain
[18:13:00] <jacky^> but it's very simple
[18:13:04] <ValarQ> etching?
[18:13:52] <jacky^> i think if you google you'll find sure
[18:14:18] <jacky^> you only need a laser printer
[18:14:23] <ValarQ> hmm, "Iron-on-Foil"
[18:14:30] <jacky^> i got for about 100 euro..
[18:14:37] <jepler> what do you do after you iron it?
[18:15:00] <jacky^> just the pcb under the water
[18:15:05] <jacky^> wait some minute
[18:15:16] <jepler> I've only done PCBs by mail order or on cradek's milling machine.
[18:15:52] <cradek_> when you iron it, the toner from the laser printer transfers to the copper
[18:15:56] <cradek_> then you etch it like normal
[18:15:59] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is using oh-plastic and etching liquid
[18:16:20] <ValarQ> cradek_: sounds easy
[18:16:27] <jacky^> cradek_: right
[18:16:59] <cradek_> ValarQ: it is easy but tedious and finnicky.
[18:17:37] <ValarQ> cradek_: easier to just mill it ;)
[18:17:42] <SWPadnos> there are rapid prototyping places that have pretty good deals on 2-layer boards
[18:17:54] <cradek_> ValarQ: definitely milling is best for me
[18:18:05] <jacky^> with cnc, we no need to drill again, also not acid is used ..
[18:18:06] <SWPadnos> like $33 per board, for 3 boards
[18:18:15] <ValarQ> cradek_: hopefully for me too, soon...
[18:19:28] <jacky^> but sometimes it's a hard work to find the file ready do work, or made it manually, take some time..
[18:19:28] <cradek_> jacky^: I use Eagle (www.cadsoft.de)
[18:19:28] <jacky^> i know it
[18:20:00] <cradek_> jacky^: using its scripting language you can generate g-code directly
[18:20:00] <jacky^> i also tried pcb that comes with linux
[18:20:00] <jacky^> but.. i repeat
[18:20:00] <cradek_> I have not tried that
[18:20:00] <ValarQ> i use crapplication ;)
[18:20:05] <jacky^> i you don't have the pcb file ready ?
[18:20:16] <jacky^> you need to work some hour
[18:20:37] <jacky^> just to draw
[18:22:40] <jacky^> would be a software that from a jpeg convert the file in pcb format (hard to do, i think..)
[18:44:11] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the command to uncompress a tar.gz file?
[18:44:51] <paul_c> tar -xzf foo.tgz
[18:45:16] <paul_c> ("man tar" for further info)
[18:45:33] <A-L-P-H-A> no, there's 1 more command
[18:46:10] <SWPadnos> nope - the z in the option list unzips and untars
[18:46:15] <paul_c> gunzip foo.tgz
[18:46:26] <paul_c> tar -xf foo.tar
[18:46:43] <jacky^> -v for verbose
[18:47:07] <jacky^> tar -xvzf
[18:47:25] <SWPadnos> and you don't need the - either, since tar by default does nothing, at least one option is required
[18:48:11] <jacky^> maybe depend on tarball
[18:50:34] <jacky^> see you later, time for dinner :P
[18:50:47] <jacky^> jacky^ is now known as jacky^afk
[19:08:10] <Phydbleep> 'tar xzvf foo.tgz' eXtract / Zipped / Verbosely / Filename
[19:09:21] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wakes up and goes 'Damn, I can do that in my sleep..." :)
[19:09:58] <paul_c> and for a foo.tar.bz2, the incantation would be ?
[19:12:18] <Phydbleep> 'tar xjvf foo.tgz'
[19:12:34] <Phydbleep> 'tar xjvf foo.tar.bz2'
[19:13:04] <Phydbleep> Is it 'j' or'i'..?
[19:13:12] <paul_c> one silver star to Phydbleep !
[19:13:27] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is dyslexic and has hell with j/i some days.
[19:13:31] <paul_c> 'tis j for bz2
[19:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> no gold star?
[19:14:15] <Phydbleep> Dyslexics of the world, UNTIE!
[19:14:48] <A-L-P-H-A> about to install BDI4.20...
[19:14:50] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm hmm.
[19:20:33] <A-L-P-H-A> page broken. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC_Documentation
[19:20:41] <A-L-P-H-A> well, the links are
[19:20:57] <SWPadnos> which links?
[19:21:12] <A-L-P-H-A> the doc links
[19:21:41] <SWPadnos> ah - the ? shows that no definition for that term has been entered into the wiki
[19:21:50] <SWPadnos> and this wiki doesn't allow pdf files
[19:21:59] <jacky^> * jacky^ bleah.. that adsl
[19:21:59] <SWPadnos> so those are indeed broken :)
[19:22:30] <SWPadnos> I think fenn is working on putting the contents of the .pdfs up
[19:22:58] <A-L-P-H-A> after I've installed the BDI, where's the ini file to edit?
[19:23:11] <SWPadnos> /usr/local/emc, I believe
[19:23:16] <A-L-P-H-A> k.
[19:23:59] <jacky^> SWPadnos: are you working on a pcb software ?
[19:24:06] <SWPadnos> nope
[19:24:15] <jacky^> ah ok
[19:24:44] <A-L-P-H-A> start the install, and then eat.
[19:28:28] <SWPadnos> jacky^: did you mean "writing a PCB program" or "using a PCB program" ?
[19:28:50] <jacky^> writing,
[19:28:58] <SWPadnos> OK - then no :)
[19:29:13] <jacky^> okay :)
[19:29:56] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: hey, get over here and help me with crapplication
[19:29:57] <ValarQ> :P
[19:30:07] <SWPadnos> Ok. I'll get the next flight
[19:31:04] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: did you look at the crapahalic code?
[19:31:15] <SWPadnos> a little bit
[19:31:29] <ValarQ> ok
[19:31:42] <SWPadnos> it seems very short :)
[19:32:53] <ValarQ> quite :)
[19:33:00] <ValarQ> i had no reason to make it long ;)
[19:33:36] <SWPadnos> I suppose if it were complete, it would be longer
[19:34:32] <ValarQ> yeah, it's harder to add functionality by deleting code at this stage
[19:34:37] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:34:47] <SWPadnos> at least it's guaranteed to remove bugs though ;)
[19:35:09] <SWPadnos> rm -fr * kills bugs, dead.
[19:35:50] <ValarQ> i usually unlink(2) them ;)
[19:41:21] <asdfqwega> What is this 'crapaholic'?
[19:43:18] <asdfqwega> I'd google for it, but I fear what I'd find :(
[19:43:18] <A-L-P-H-A> how much is z mazak machining centre?
[19:43:24] <A-L-P-H-A> z=a
[19:45:39] <SWPadnos> also, it's crapahalic
[19:45:48] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[19:45:56] <SWPadnos> crapa-HAL-ic - get it?
[19:46:08] <A-L-P-H-A> it's not funny
[19:46:20] <SWPadnos> it is if you start with crapplication :)
[19:46:41] <Phydbleep> And it generates .crap files. :)
[19:46:52] <SWPadnos> http://arda.no-ip.org/someplot.png
[19:46:55] <SWPadnos> oops
[19:47:02] <SWPadnos> http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[19:47:12] <asdfqwega> I just DL'd the tar
[19:47:24] <asdfqwega> I'll look at it when I get back
[19:48:03] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: The pic has changed. :)
[19:48:32] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone going to this? http://www.cnc-workshop.com/map.htm
[19:48:57] <asdfqwega> I wish I could
[19:49:03] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: That plot is boring.. I was expecting 'global domination' or 'get lots of women'. :)
[19:49:32] <jacky^> hi Phydbleep :D
[19:49:37] <A-L-P-H-A> maps.google.com is telling me it's a 14hr drive.
[19:49:53] <Phydbleep> Hi jacky^ :)
[19:50:43] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:50:56] <A-L-P-H-A> damn... 1100 km... how fast does a cesna fly?
[19:51:44] <paul_c> vertical or horizontal ?
[19:52:00] <jacky^> lol
[19:52:10] <A-L-P-H-A> horizontal.
[19:52:12] <SWPadnos> 145 mph max structural cruising speed, for a 172M
[19:52:17] <jacky^> :)
[19:52:37] <A-L-P-H-A> yikes, still a long flight.
[19:52:39] <jacky^> which axis A-L-P-H-A ? :D
[19:53:22] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.ca/maps?ll=42.203125,-84.863843&spn=6.781250,12.331936&saddr=Pickering,+ON&daddr=2211+155th+St,+Cameron,+IL+61423,+USA&hl=en
[19:56:00] <SWPadnos> at least you don't have this: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.531250,-81.826421&spn=10.593750,17.718299&saddr=Essex+Junction,+VT&daddr=2211+155th+St,+Cameron,+IL+61423,+USA&hl=en
[19:56:43] <SWPadnos> 1167 miles
[19:58:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, wanna carpool?
[19:59:13] <SWPadnos> I considered it, but my wife and I share a car, and I can;t leave her without one for a week (plus a few days)
[19:59:35] <SWPadnos> Plus, I don't think I have the time to go
[19:59:49] <ValarQ> lol @ Phydbleeps thought on my someplot.png file
[19:59:55] <A-L-P-H-A> crap, that won't work... I was thinking renting, but then that means I have to show up to the rental place to show my liscense and crap
[20:00:03] <SWPadnos> yep
[20:00:16] <SWPadnos> though I could go for a nice waffle at the 9 o' cups :)
[20:00:41] <SWPadnos> and there's always Rodneys the night before
[20:01:23] <jepler> cradek_: how thick are the circuit boards we order from mouser?
[20:01:31] <cradek_> 059?
[20:01:32] <alex_joni> greetings
[20:01:34] <SWPadnos> .062
[20:01:46] <A-L-P-H-A> what's a CHEAP airline?
[20:01:55] <cradek_> pretty sure they're always .059
[20:02:08] <cradek_> A-L-P-H-A: no such thing
[20:02:09] <SWPadnos> (with the copper and possibly the soldermask = so they may be .059 without the mask)
[20:02:19] <SWPadnos> u-fly?
[20:02:21] <jepler> SWPadnos: this is single-sided copper clad
[20:02:29] <SWPadnos> ah
[20:02:42] <SWPadnos> that would leave a couple of mils off :)
[20:03:09] <jepler> .059 says the catalog
[20:03:38] <SWPadnos> indeed it does - I sit corrected
[20:03:47] <jepler> cradek_: I was trying to find some <1/16" flat end mills but they're typically pretty short (eg flute length = 3x diameter)
[20:03:58] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[20:04:00] <anonimasu> yep
[20:04:09] <cradek_> jepler: that's pretty normal
[20:04:20] <alex_joni> what's up guys?
[20:04:22] <cradek_> jepler: they're so small you can't cut deeper than that anyway.
[20:04:52] <cradek_> jepler: the only ones you'll find for reasonable price are probably 1/32
[20:04:53] <anonimasu> I always end up in trouble with that
[20:05:11] <anonimasu> they all have so short flutes, trying to mill the side of somthing is impossible
[20:05:12] <cradek_> alex_joni: not much here, just waiting for the workday to be over, trying to figure out where to go on vacation
[20:05:24] <SWPadnos> life is rough :)
[20:05:29] <alex_joni> hmm.. how far do you wanna go?
[20:05:30] <jepler> cradek_: If I implement "holes via end mill" then something like 1/32 would be great for all the odd hole sizes we run into
[20:06:06] <cradek_> yeah, if they are 3/32 long, that would be plenty
[20:06:29] <cradek_> I'm sure I have some 1/32 mills
[20:06:44] <cradek_> they won't last long cutting fiberglas though.
[20:07:09] <alex_joni> jepler: get a laser to cut fiberglass ;)
[20:07:31] <cradek_> if you do it, use a helix with a circle at the bottom, not plunge-then-circle
[20:07:53] <jepler> that's easy enough
[20:07:59] <anonimasu> hm, holes via endmill?
[20:08:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu does that all the time
[20:08:05] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: A cheap airline is a reason for the channel to take out insurance on you. :)
[20:08:15] <cradek_> anonimasu: for odd-sized (large) pcb holes
[20:08:24] <anonimasu> oh, I mill alu....
[20:09:03] <anonimasu> but that's the easiest way to make large holes..
[20:09:12] <cradek_> anonimasu: I did that for my spindle mount (steel) - it's nice that the holes ended up in the right place, which hardly ever happens when I use the drill press
[20:09:21] <anonimasu> hehe
[20:09:27] <anonimasu> yeah :D
[20:09:30] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[20:10:36] <A-L-P-H-A> :) I'm glad you guys care enough to bet on my life.
[20:10:46] <cradek_> ?
[20:10:58] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: how much is the pot?
[20:11:00] <jepler> cradek_: here's a site with carbide 1mm (.0394") diameter / 4mm cutting length, 2- or 4-flute, $9.64 each. Not sure if they have a minimum order.
[20:11:01] <A-L-P-H-A> [16:06:45] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: A cheap airline is a reason for the channel to take out insurance on you. :)
[20:11:08] <jepler> http://www.national-tool.com/HTML/metric-square.html
[20:11:34] <jepler> they also have .030"/.090" for $17.33
[20:11:39] <jepler> http://www.national-tool.com/HTML/sub-miniature.html
[20:11:45] <cradek_> why wouldn't you want 1/32?
[20:11:58] <jepler> I haven't found 1/32 yet
[20:12:04] <jepler> thinktink only has them in stub
[20:12:30] <cradek_> ah, I see that now, 060 EFL is pretty short
[20:12:39] <cradek_> (but it would probably be fine)
[20:12:55] <jepler> 060 to cut 059?
[20:12:59] <cradek_> that doesn't mean there is no cutting surface higher on the tool - only that the diameter isn't held
[20:13:06] <A-L-P-H-A> www.cetdirect.com
[20:13:11] <A-L-P-H-A> cheaper prices.
[20:13:25] <A-L-P-H-A> much cheaper prices
[20:13:52] <jepler> Price: $4.98
[20:14:06] <cradek_> wow, look at the small one on their front page
[20:14:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I found 1/32 single end square, for $3 each.
[20:14:19] <cradek_> carbide?
[20:14:23] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[20:14:35] <cradek_> 1/8 shank?
[20:14:52] <A-L-P-H-A> yup
[20:15:03] <cradek_> I get $4.39
[20:15:05] <A-L-P-H-A> $4.95 shipping... so I ordered 12.
[20:15:09] <cradek_> why are we all finding different prices?
[20:15:22] <jepler> cradek_: how many flute did you choose? I think I chose 2 flute
[20:15:27] <cradek_> http://www.cetdirect.com/pub/product.asp?PMode=9&catID=5042&ID=5280
[20:15:29] <cradek_> yeah, 2
[20:15:32] <A-L-P-H-A> oh yeah, these are 4flt
[20:15:41] <cradek_> 4flt 1/32"?
[20:15:47] <cradek_> what do you cut with them?
[20:15:52] <jepler> Part Number: 12001 Price: $4.98
[20:16:03] <cradek_> 16001
[20:16:06] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58224&item=7508750488
[20:16:19] <cradek_> ah, you picked non-stub
[20:16:22] <jepler> oh, you're looking at stub length
[20:16:39] <A-L-P-H-A> it's 1.5" long... how stub do I need it?
[20:16:40] <A-L-P-H-A> damn
[20:17:34] <A-L-P-H-A> mind you it takes them like 2 weeks to ship anything.
[20:17:43] <cradek_> bleah
[20:17:51] <cradek_> I'd rather pay the extra $2 then
[20:17:58] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, but I bought 12.
[20:18:01] <alex_joni> cradek_: any ideea about ProEngineer ?
[20:18:10] <cradek_> alex_joni: never heard of it
[20:18:14] <A-L-P-H-A> ideas?
[20:18:17] <alex_joni> ok.. how about .stl ?
[20:18:36] <cradek_> alex_joni: never heard of it
[20:18:46] <anonimasu> ,,yeah
[20:18:50] <anonimasu> I've heard about stl
[20:19:02] <alex_joni> any ideea if I can import it to autocad?
[20:19:29] <alex_joni> actually I have some .asm and .prt (and I think they were done in ProEngineer)
[20:19:31] <A-L-P-H-A> "idea" like "ikea", instead of a K it's a D.
[20:19:39] <alex_joni> I found some software that converted it to STL
[20:19:58] <cradek_> alex_joni: I don't know about any of those - sorry
[20:20:00] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: this ebay person takes 2 weeks, or cetdirect does?
[20:20:01] <ValarQ> i thought i heard someone mention ikea
[20:20:06] <A-L-P-H-A> ebay guy
[20:20:10] <alex_joni> autocad seems to export STL, but no option to import any.. that's dumb
[20:20:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I dunno how long CET takes.
[20:20:23] <Jymmm> les ?
[20:20:24] <paul_c> alex_joni: Ask websys about stl import.
[20:20:25] <cradek_> stl stl stl - that seems familiar
[20:20:27] <A-L-P-H-A> CET has good prices, just not the BEST
[20:21:09] <alex_joni> paul_c: will do when he'll be around
[20:21:16] <cradek_> ah it's just triangles specified in ascii
[20:21:21] <alex_joni> cradek_: stereolithographie or smthg like that
[20:21:25] <cradek_> alex_joni: it would be easy to convert that to 3DFACE entities in DXF
[20:22:03] <cradek_> alex_joni: what do you want to do with it once it's in autocad?
[20:22:49] <alex_joni> look at it
[20:23:05] <alex_joni> I will eventually use it for some offline testing on a robot system
[20:23:09] <alex_joni> but STL is ok for that
[20:23:22] <alex_joni> but I gotta make sure the right stuff is in the STL
[20:23:34] <alex_joni> found an STL import for autocad, trying that noe
[20:23:36] <alex_joni> now
[20:23:39] <cradek_> yeah you should be able to write a convert pretty easily.
[20:23:45] <cradek_> or ... find one that someone else wrote
[20:23:58] <alex_joni> paul_c: my synergy doesn't work.. again
[20:24:00] <alex_joni> cradek_: right
[20:24:11] <alex_joni> you guys seen the stuff ValarQ did?
[20:24:34] <Jymmm> http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KS-2525_detail.asp plus 6.5" gantry clearance and 5" Z travel, tax and shipping $2310
[20:25:04] <anonimasu> alex_joni: no
[20:25:21] <cradek_> I saw some of his programs the other day
[20:25:25] <cradek_> they were all named funny things
[20:26:22] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: IMO they're worth a look. :)
[20:26:58] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: what do they do?
[20:27:13] <cradek_> The most common error in an STL file is non compliance with the vertex-to-vertex rule. The STL specifications require that all adjacent triangles share two common vertices.
[20:27:44] <cradek_> huh.
[20:28:03] <jepler> they're all triangle strips, to use opengl terms?
[20:28:34] <alex_joni> anonimasu: http://arda.no-ip.org/crapahalic.png
[20:28:35] <Phydbleep> Crapplication is a small and fast pcb layout editor for quick creation of simple one layer pcb-cards. It's written entierly in python and uses pygtk and gnome-python for graphical interaction and pyx to create the printable eps-files.
[20:28:59] <anonimasu> nice :)
[20:29:43] <cradek_> jepler: I guess. The strange thing is that all three vertexes (and a surface normal!) are listed in each triangle
[20:30:08] <cradek_> jepler: it seems a little bit ... redundant
[20:30:43] <alex_joni> cradek_: seems there are no free converters :(
[20:30:51] <jacky^> Phydbleep: who are the developer of crapplication ?
[20:31:24] <jepler> it wouldn't be the first bad format in the world
[20:31:24] <cradek_> alex_joni: so write it, it's trivial
[20:31:24] <alex_joni> jacky^: ValarQ is
[20:31:24] <jacky^> ah ok, nice
[20:31:24] <Phydbleep> http://arda.no-ip.org/crap
[20:31:59] <cradek_> jepler: in dxf to specify a triangular 3dface, you specify four 3d points, the last two being the same (3dfaces are quads)
[20:32:20] <alex_joni> cradek_: don't know enough about that
[20:33:47] <cradek_> alex_joni: http://www.autodesk.com/techpubs/autocad/acad2000/dxf/3dface_dxf_06.htm
[20:35:26] <jacky^> ValarQ: good work
[20:35:49] <jacky^> are you writing them fron zero ?
[20:38:49] <ValarQ> jacky^: not completely, i have used parts from my pcb-editor
[20:39:20] <jacky^> great
[20:40:40] <jacky^> never write an application from zero when someone, somewhere, already writed :D
[20:40:59] <jacky^> i seen pcb , but it seem released without source code
[20:41:02] <jacky^> :\
[20:41:07] <ValarQ> pcb?
[20:41:12] <jacky^> yes
[20:41:40] <ValarQ> it can be downloaded from pcb.sf.net i believe
[20:41:50] <jacky^> source code ?
[20:42:09] <ValarQ> think so
[20:42:17] <jacky^> uhm, well
[20:47:05] <jepler> I'm afraid that eagle still beats the other choices I know of. You can use it for free (as in beer), and nothing else I've worked with does back & forward annotation and autorouting. I'd love to be proven wrong.
[20:48:17] <alex_joni> jepler: don't forget round traces
[20:48:25] <ValarQ> jepler: the rest of us is gnu fanatics, sorry
[20:48:53] <ValarQ> �)
[20:48:54] <jepler> ValarQ: I understand where you're coming from, and I'm uneasy about having my PCBs in a closed format.
[20:49:10] <ValarQ> oops, my smiley lost an eye
[20:49:30] <alex_joni> lol
[20:49:35] <alex_joni> cradek_: busy?
[20:51:00] <cradek_> alex_joni: no, but leaving soon
[20:51:03] <cradek_> alex_joni: what's up?
[20:51:04] <alex_joni> too bad
[20:51:10] <ValarQ> jepler: yeah, too bad crapplication isn't good enough
[20:51:17] <alex_joni> was wondering if you could hack up a quick converter ;;)
[20:51:21] <jacky> sorry..
[20:51:32] <alex_joni> cradek_: don't take me seriously :)
[20:51:35] <cradek_> alex_joni: maybe tonight
[20:51:37] <alex_joni> rayh: hello
[20:51:44] <rayh> Hi guys.
[20:51:55] <jacky> evening rayh
[20:51:57] <jepler> cradek_: just got a good copy of the debian installer iso, hopefully I can kick off the network part of the install before we go
[20:52:00] <ValarQ> rayh: hi
[20:52:05] <cradek_> alex_joni: really, it looks like it would be simple.
[20:52:16] <cradek_> jepler: why are you doing this again?
[20:52:20] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[20:52:32] <jepler> cradek_: because I want somewhere I can try out emc2
[20:52:38] <cradek> right
[20:52:41] <jepler> build axis for it
[20:52:54] <cradek> last I knew, it ran on max
[20:53:11] <alex_joni> cradek: got my mail the other day?
[20:53:29] <cradek> alex_joni: your emc2 hacks? Yes, we really appreciate it
[20:53:48] <alex_joni> hope they weren't too ugly ;)
[20:53:56] <cradek> alex_joni: send me your file (be sure to compress it!) and I may look at it tonight
[20:54:13] <cradek> alex_joni: actually I didn't look at it - but jepler put the patch on the web site
[20:54:21] <alex_joni> seen that just now
[20:54:27] <jepler> I glanced at it. the patch is small, so it can't be too ugly
[20:54:34] <alex_joni> jepler: ;)
[20:55:35] <alex_joni> cradek: zip ok?
[20:55:50] <cradek> sure
[20:55:53] <websys> alex - when you say it "doesn't work" - what's not working?
[20:55:55] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_wayaway
[20:56:04] <cradek> alex_joni: you could also dcc it if that's easier
[20:56:12] <alex_joni> it does work.. usually
[20:56:19] <alex_joni> but it tends to forget the licence ;)
[20:56:31] <alex_joni> it's on it's way
[20:56:44] <cradek> which autocad do you have?
[20:56:58] <alex_joni> websys: got any STL import in synergy?
[20:56:58] <alex_joni> acad2000
[20:57:12] <cradek> ok, I only have R12/dos to test with
[20:57:23] <websys> acck - sort of - prob is what to do with it once I have it
[20:57:27] <alex_joni> shouldn't be very different
[20:57:43] <alex_joni> websys: display it?
[20:57:51] <alex_joni> rotate, print, etc.
[20:57:54] <Jymmm> ok, just bought it
[20:58:21] <websys> Prob is the datasize usually blows everthing out of the water
[20:58:39] <alex_joni> not that important really
[20:59:36] <cradek> ok folks, I'm off
[20:59:39] <cradek> later
[20:59:45] <websys> Alex - when it "forgets" are you logged in as a different user than usual?
[20:59:52] <anonimasu> laters cradek
[21:00:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has started poking around with QT
[21:00:03] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:00:09] <websys> peem?
[21:00:11] <alex_joni> meepety
[21:00:15] <anonimasu> *nyaa*
[21:00:16] <ValarQ> moep
[21:00:17] <alex_joni> websys: nope
[21:00:56] <ValarQ> V�LO
[21:01:24] <anonimasu> ?
[21:02:19] <jacky> the tbl file are auto-called by emc when a program are loaded ? what happening if i leave it to 0 values?
[21:02:29] <ValarQ> anonimasu: that was a tribute to all the frogs who died of thirst during the 7:th may 1875
[21:02:36] <robin_sz> so ...
[21:02:53] <robin_sz> how can I get some lettering into DXF?
[21:03:07] <anonimasu> ValarQ: nice
[21:03:33] <ValarQ> anonimasu: yeah, i don't see much other people care bout them ;)
[21:03:39] <robin_sz> as outlines I can clice up on my laser?
[21:03:52] <alex_joni> robin_sz: try STL
[21:03:54] <alex_joni> =)
[21:04:00] <anonimasu> haha
[21:04:04] <robin_sz> hah
[21:04:20] <alex_joni> or even better .prt
[21:04:21] <ValarQ> what the heck is STL?
[21:04:29] <robin_sz> standard template library
[21:04:33] <websys> My new synergy version can produce TTF outlines
[21:04:41] <ValarQ> robin_sz: that C++ thingie?
[21:04:43] <robin_sz> oooh :)
[21:04:46] <cradek> robin_sz: http://timeguy.com/cradek/ttt
[21:04:50] <robin_sz> ValarQ: yeah, that
[21:04:59] <websys> STL = Stereo Lithography
[21:05:15] <cradek> err http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
[21:05:44] <alex_joni> cradek: thought that does g-code?
[21:05:49] <cradek> both
[21:05:53] <robin_sz> wow :)
[21:06:45] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I care :)
[21:07:04] <anonimasu> or well, I'd care if I had time to
[21:07:16] <alex_joni> cradek: cool
[21:07:23] <alex_joni> bookmarked it ;)
[21:08:37] <robin_sz> hey, I remember .. I have a Signlab dongle somewhere ..
[21:11:31] <anonimasu> nice
[21:13:13] <fenn> bleh
[21:13:29] <fenn> whoever came up with the "dongle" idea should be shot
[21:13:54] <paul_c> B. Gates ?
[21:14:25] <fenn> doubtful
[21:14:49] <anonimasu> hm, autodesk maybe
[21:14:52] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:14:58] <alex_joni> in a world without walls and fences,
[21:15:04] <alex_joni> who needs gates and windows?
[21:15:10] <robin_sz> anonimasu: nah, not autodesk
[21:15:24] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I just know they've been using dongles forever
[21:15:25] <robin_sz> anonimasu: all thier software ships with a "keygenerator"
[21:15:52] <alex_joni> robin_sz: don't mix it up with astalavista.com
[21:16:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:16:08] <robin_sz> ah, yes, thats could be it ;)
[21:16:23] <alex_joni> I kinda like ProEngineers way of working with parts
[21:16:26] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, real bought programs come with a dongle..
[21:16:30] <alex_joni> robin_sz: ever tried it?
[21:16:36] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I wouldnt know if you have one though *grins*
[21:16:45] <alex_joni> you have a drawing for all parts
[21:16:51] <alex_joni> 3D drawings that is
[21:16:59] <alex_joni> and you can assemble them to the final product
[21:17:03] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I was thinking their older software.. :)
[21:17:49] <anonimasu>
[21:17:50] <anonimasu> :)
[21:23:10] <robin_sz> alex_joni: Solidworks is the 3d cad of choice at the moment
[21:23:29] <alex_joni> right
[21:23:39] <robin_sz> similar to proengineer in many ways
[21:24:03] <robin_sz> makes going bak to autocad seem like a step back in time
[21:24:18] <alex_joni> heh
[21:24:29] <alex_joni> the latest does look pretty nice
[21:24:35] <alex_joni> seen a 2006 the other day
[21:24:47] <robin_sz> Autocad is the punch cards of the cad world these days
[21:25:19] <robin_sz> I saw 2005 the other day, didnt look much more fun than my Acad LT 98
[21:25:22] <alex_joni> yeah.. just like doze
[21:25:36] <alex_joni> it's dumb ... but it's pretty spreaded
[21:25:40] <robin_sz> I bought the LT98 btw, but no dongle
[21:25:57] <robin_sz> LT never did ship with a dongle
[21:27:07] <robin_sz> I cant say I tink Acad 2005 is worth the price either, 2700GBP in basic form
[21:27:15] <robin_sz> WAY too much
[21:27:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni nods
[21:28:38] <robin_sz> anyway ... my next project is a sheet loader
[21:29:05] <robin_sz> thaqt will be interesting
[21:29:30] <alex_joni> one of those big heavy stamp sheets?
[21:29:38] <robin_sz> nah
[21:29:44] <alex_joni> lol
[21:29:53] <anonimasu> nice
[21:30:20] <robin_sz> more to the point, a magazine for storing sheet and retreiving it, to the laser, on demand
[21:31:28] <robin_sz> I can see some sort of database linked to a cnc control of some flavour
[21:31:45] <robin_sz> and a web interface to view stock
[21:32:57] <alex_joni> heh.. so when you cut out a piece, it remembers the sheet
[21:33:01] <alex_joni> with the missing part
[21:33:04] <robin_sz> ahhh.
[21:33:05] <alex_joni> so it can be reused?
[21:33:08] <robin_sz> that.
[21:33:11] <robin_sz> no.
[21:33:17] <alex_joni> why not?
[21:33:21] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:33:24] <alex_joni> that would be cool
[21:33:26] <robin_sz> we will slit the sheet on 500mm boundaries
[21:33:47] <alex_joni> that mixed with automatic nesting
[21:33:51] <anonimasu> :/
[21:33:52] <robin_sz> so, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6 or 0.8 of a sheet
[21:33:56] <alex_joni> hmmmm ;)
[21:34:00] <anonimasu> rfid tag the sheets..
[21:34:08] <robin_sz> sadly, the remnant trackign just doesnt work
[21:34:13] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:34:19] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it could :D
[21:34:21] <robin_sz> seen many comapnies try and use it
[21:34:24] <robin_sz> MANY
[21:34:33] <robin_sz> and ALL the nesting packages support it
[21:34:36] <anonimasu> robin_sz: calculate how much material you've cut out of sheet X from the dxf files..
[21:34:41] <robin_sz> yep
[21:34:49] <robin_sz> my nesting package supports that
[21:35:00] <anonimasu> I dont see the trouble with it..
[21:35:05] <robin_sz> ahh.
[21:35:07] <robin_sz> ok,
[21:35:19] <anonimasu> unless the program is crap, and wont nest stuff properly
[21:35:21] <alex_joni> anonimasu: I do ;)
[21:35:25] <robin_sz> say you send a small program to the operator to cut
[21:35:40] <robin_sz> severlal ways to screw up
[21:35:43] <robin_sz> 1
[21:35:55] <robin_sz> he cant find the sheet, so uses an similar one ...
[21:35:57] <robin_sz> 2
[21:36:06] <robin_sz> he screws up the first few parts,
[21:36:22] <robin_sz> so just moves 300mm further up the sheet and tries again
[21:36:48] <robin_sz> etc
[21:36:49] <alex_joni> but surely the cutting machine can report that;)
[21:37:10] <robin_sz> all this means your remnants rarely if ever are the size and/or shpe you tink they are
[21:37:12] <anonimasu> yeah with somthing like nml..
[21:37:30] <robin_sz> so ..
[21:37:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni slaps anonimasu with paul_c's wet kipper
[21:37:45] <anonimasu> alex_joni: :/
[21:37:48] <robin_sz> if you look at the storage and tracking of plain old mild steel
[21:38:01] <robin_sz> the management overhead outweighs the product cost
[21:38:02] <alex_joni> anonimasu: jk
[21:38:18] <robin_sz> we decided to split at 0.2 of a sheet incrememnts
[21:38:33] <robin_sz> so we have whole sheets, or standard part sheets
[21:38:49] <fenn> what do you make out of these sheets anyway?
[21:38:58] <robin_sz> parts
[21:39:01] <robin_sz> for customers
[21:39:08] <robin_sz> sub-contract laser cutter
[21:39:38] <fenn> so more or less random sizes
[21:39:42] <robin_sz> yep
[21:40:09] <anonimasu> well, you could still substract it from the sheets..
[21:40:15] <robin_sz> sure
[21:40:25] <anonimasu> if you are writing a system you could keep track of what you've cut out..
[21:40:36] <robin_sz> but tracking them in reallity is harder than in theory
[21:40:43] <robin_sz> because there are humans involvved
[21:40:48] <fenn> you just gotta let the machines do it all
[21:40:58] <robin_sz> and they will think of new and ingenius ways to screw it up
[21:41:31] <jacky^> * jacky^ damn
[21:41:35] <jacky^> :\
[21:41:35] <fenn> i'm a member of the borg political party
[21:41:39] <robin_sz> fenn let me give you an exampl
[21:41:59] <robin_sz> you have a part sheet with a cut out onthe top right corner ...
[21:42:00] <fenn> mindless slavery for humans, now!
[21:42:24] <alex_joni> you will be assimilated
[21:42:38] <robin_sz> I nest some more parts onto it in the bottom left hand corner and send the job to the floor for cutting ok?
[21:43:18] <robin_sz> the operator puts it on the machine upside down, cutout top right, not top left
[21:43:28] <robin_sz> cuts his parts and sticks it back in the rack
[21:44:03] <fenn> q: why does it cost less to hire a human to do this job?
[21:44:26] <robin_sz> well, it doesnt
[21:44:28] <robin_sz> it costs
[21:44:30] <robin_sz> more
[21:44:46] <robin_sz> but ... it takes a while to design the humans out of the process
[21:44:49] <fenn> is it lack of capital to invest in a robot system?
[21:44:54] <robin_sz> yep
[21:45:11] <robin_sz> like, 100K gbp for a bought one
[21:45:22] <robin_sz> or 5 to 10K if I build it in house
[21:45:23] <fenn> yeah that's a lot
[21:45:33] <robin_sz> or in workshop anyway :)
[21:45:33] <anonimasu> robin_sz: how much time to write the software ?
[21:45:43] <alex_joni> 20-30k for a used one ;)
[21:45:46] <robin_sz> oh, not a lot .. its fairly simple
[21:45:48] <robin_sz> 50K used
[21:46:10] <robin_sz> IFF yo ucan find one
[21:46:13] <alex_joni> what kind?
[21:46:16] <robin_sz> they tend to come with lasers
[21:46:19] <robin_sz> Bystronic
[21:46:36] <alex_joni> never heard
[21:46:45] <robin_sz> of bystronic?
[21:47:04] <robin_sz> you've heard of Trumpf?
[21:47:26] <alex_joni> trumpf yes
[21:47:37] <robin_sz> bystronic are a similar size
[21:47:41] <alex_joni> bystronic no
[21:47:51] <alex_joni> I see
[21:47:59] <robin_sz> trumpf and bystronic share the laser market 50:50
[21:48:25] <anonimasu> robin_sz: well, if all you want to do is index & switch your sheets..
[21:48:47] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it grows quickly ;)
[21:49:03] <robin_sz> anonimasu: all I want to do is not have to lift the fscking things with a forklift and push them off the fork onto the bed
[21:49:20] <robin_sz> so a vertical magazine, with a picker for pallets of sheet
[21:49:41] <robin_sz> and a vacuum lifter to take a sheet off the pallet and drop it onthe laser
[21:49:51] <anonimasu> a nice little plc..
[21:49:57] <robin_sz> classicladder?
[21:50:02] <anonimasu> heh
[21:50:08] <anonimasu> I was thinking a real plc.
[21:50:15] <robin_sz> possibly
[21:50:26] <robin_sz> I want a web interface and a database
[21:50:35] <Jymmm> anonimasu "Hey, while you're at it, get a mini RC hovercraft to lift the material for you!"
[21:50:39] <anonimasu> * anonimasu pokes CL with a stick
[21:50:49] <anonimasu> Jymmm: Are you talking to robin?
[21:50:51] <robin_sz> anonimasu: is it allive?
[21:51:09] <robin_sz> Jymm we already use one ;)
[21:51:17] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it works ok, probably..
[21:51:26] <robin_sz> sorta a hovercraft anyway
[21:51:38] <Jymmm> anonimasu : No, just making fun of robin_sz's suggestions. He thinks everyone has zillions of dollars in equipment and manpower.
[21:51:53] <Jymmm> =)
[21:51:59] <anonimasu> Jymmm: isnt that how it is?
[21:52:05] <robin_sz> Jymmm: no, you are mistaken.
[21:52:16] <Jymmm> robin_sz goony goo goo
[21:52:33] <robin_sz> Jymmm: do you know why I am going to build a magazine and plate loader?
[21:52:43] <anonimasu> PROFIT$$$
[21:52:55] <robin_sz> Jymmm: because staff are too expensive
[21:53:00] <robin_sz> its CHEAPER this way
[21:53:02] <anonimasu> better keep the staff running the machine
[21:53:07] <robin_sz> exactly
[21:53:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[21:53:40] <robin_sz> only companies with loads of spare cash can affrod to do it manually
[21:53:44] <alex_joni> night guys
[21:53:48] <robin_sz> nighty
[21:53:52] <fenn> alex_joni: wait!
[21:54:02] <fenn> i'm trying to compile axis for emc2..
[21:54:12] <alex_joni> robin_sz: want me to send you some cheap stuff over?
[21:54:15] <alex_joni> fenn: and?
[21:54:22] <fenn> it gives me errors about tkinter_ not found, where's tkinter?
[21:54:36] <alex_joni> you need to follow the stuff from docs
[21:54:38] <robin_sz> Jymmm: wanna hear about how we use "hovercraft" theory?
[21:54:45] <robin_sz> alex_joni: stuff or staff?
[21:54:47] <fenn> wah
[21:55:01] <alex_joni> there's a readme by jepler about what packages you need on BDI
[21:55:06] <Jymmm> * Jymmm prefers hockytable theory =)
[21:55:08] <alex_joni> robin_sz: staff of course
[21:55:43] <robin_sz> Jymmm: get a tonne of steel on the forklift by the laser, forks tilted forward at a height to allwo the sheet to slide off onto the bed of the laser
[21:55:57] <robin_sz> alex_joni: only if they are blonde and female
[21:56:08] <alex_joni> robin_sz: we can arrange that
[21:56:11] <alex_joni> ;)
[21:56:28] <robin_sz> Jymmm: then just fire the air line under the top sheet and it slides off real smooth :)
[21:56:29] <alex_joni> fenn: apt-get update apt-get install python-opengl python-tk python-dev xlibmesa-dev \ freeglut-dev
[21:57:05] <alex_joni> fenn: there was another package, but I can't remember it now
[21:57:12] <alex_joni> smthg XFree86 related
[21:57:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is too tired to think ;)
[21:57:26] <alex_joni> night
[21:57:30] <robin_sz> night ...
[22:01:36] <fenn> thanks alex
[22:02:08] <anonimasu> 0night alex
[22:38:26] <jacky^> is there a simplw way to retrive the right value for backslash ?
[22:38:59] <jacky^> or only experimental ?
[22:41:48] <jacky^> * jacky^ ZZzzZZZzz ronf...
[22:51:02] <Maxine> This is a test
[22:51:31] <jacky^> O_o
[22:55:19] <robin_sz> only by experiment
[22:55:50] <robin_sz> and ... if your backlash vaires along the leadscrew, then that is another problem
[22:55:53] <jacky^> found howto robin_sz , tnx
[22:55:57] <robin_sz> k
[22:56:37] <jacky^> moving the axes by 0,5 mm using a pencil as tool and measuring..
[22:57:53] <jacky^> i hope the backslash don't varies alond the leadscrew, tomorrow i will try
[23:00:38] <fenn> * fenn is in dependency hell
[23:00:59] <SWP_Away> get help, man
[23:01:01] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[23:01:19] <SWPadnos> there are support groups for that kind of thing :)
[23:01:34] <fenn> if i just add packages.debian.org to my apt repository list, will it download .deb's?
[23:01:47] <fenn> i cant figure out how to get dpkg
[23:02:01] <SWPadnos> you then need to apt-get update, to get the new list of available packages
[23:02:08] <jacky^> fenn: tried apt-setup ?
[23:02:36] <SWPadnos> are you trying to get apt to work on your fc3 install?
[23:02:47] <Jymmm> you CAN tell apt-get to install dependancies too, it's a switch iirc
[23:02:49] <fenn> apt already works, but only for rpms
[23:02:55] <Jymmm> lol
[23:03:02] <Jymmm> rpm's on debian?!
[23:03:03] <fenn> i know what a pain, huh
[23:03:14] <fenn> rpms on fc3, downloaded with apt-get
[23:03:29] <SWPadnos> right - any .deb will depend on others, all the way back to libc and the kernel
[23:03:33] <Jymmm> fsck redhat (just my two cents =)
[23:03:33] <jacky^> first time i heard this
[23:03:48] <SWPadnos> since you don't have any .debs installed, you'll end up getting a complete distro
[23:03:51] <fenn> so mixing .rpms and .debs is a bad idea?
[23:04:09] <fenn> damn this python-tk package to hell!
[23:04:13] <jacky^> fenn: wich distro ?
[23:04:17] <SWPadnos> It sounds like a nice idea, but I don't think the dependencies are interchangeable
[23:04:21] <fenn> jacky^: fedora core 3
[23:04:45] <SWPadnos> you could install some .deb package, and the rpms would still depend on the rpm version of the same program being installer
[23:04:48] <SWPadnos> installed
[23:04:51] <jacky^> i think it's not a good idea to mix
[23:05:12] <jacky^> i'm usind debian sid
[23:05:47] <jacky^> apt is very powerful tool
[23:05:48] <fenn> what's the difference between .deb and .rpm anyway?
[23:06:16] <jacky^> the problems are in the dipendences
[23:06:21] <Jymmm> deb is redhat, deb is debian
[23:06:28] <Jymmm> rpm is redhat, deb is debian
[23:06:32] <jacky^> you can't mix..
[23:06:44] <jacky^> fenn: tried ubuntu ?
[23:06:45] <SWPadnos> I don't think there's a lot of difference in terms of the package formats - it's the way the manager deals with and keeps track of dependencies that's different
[23:06:50] <jacky^> it's very nice
[23:06:56] <jacky^> debian based
[23:07:03] <Jymmm> fenn This aint windows!
[23:07:06] <Jymmm> =)
[23:07:45] <jacky^> fenn: sometimes i tried and used a rpm package in debian
[23:08:27] <jacky^> sometime work, sometime not
[23:08:32] <jacky^> 50 %
[23:08:33] <Jymmm> why?
[23:08:51] <jacky^> i used alien to convert rpm in deb
[23:09:01] <Jymmm> why?
[23:09:08] <jacky^> when the package i wanted was not available as deb
[23:09:16] <Jymmm> then compile it yourself!
[23:09:17] <SWPadnos> if any package has no dependencies, it should work fine. Otherwise, the package database probably won't correctly keep track of the packages installed (from all package formats)
[23:09:24] <jacky^> also not available as soucr code
[23:09:54] <SWPadnos> like an Nvidia or ATI driver, for example
[23:09:58] <Jymmm> jacky^ if it's gpl, source has to be available
[23:10:16] <jacky^> depend on what toure going to install
[23:10:21] <Jymmm> oh geeze, you ppl and your fscking video
[23:10:27] <fenn> Jymmm: compiling can be a real bitch some times.. the reason i'm doing all this is to compile something
[23:10:49] <Jymmm> fenn I understand =)
[23:10:52] <SWPadnos> good video cards are a plus for CAD, and even Axis
[23:11:07] <SWPadnos> (not to mention Wolf:ET :) )
[23:11:13] <Jymmm> lol
[23:11:15] <fenn> yeah i'm worried that rtai might screw up with my nvidia drivers
[23:11:31] <jacky^> fenn: i suggest you to switch to Ubuntu, the more download distro in the latest mounth.. if you like apt or debian-based distros
[23:11:33] <Jymmm> what you can't run two machines?!
[23:11:51] <Jymmm> one for RT adn another for desktop
[23:11:55] <SWPadnos> oh - two machines says the guy in the tiny apartment ;)
[23:12:06] <fenn> Jymmm: i'm developing emc on my desktop which requires rtai
[23:12:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, I have like 6 machiens in here right now
[23:12:33] <SWPadnos> so THAT's why you can't fit a Bridgeport in there :)
[23:12:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos KVM and synergy baby =)
[23:12:54] <SWPadnos> how does synergy work for you?
[23:13:21] <fenn> he means synergy the video/keyboard switcher right?
[23:13:23] <Jymmm> I love it. It doens't like when my laptop goes into standby, but other than that it's great
[23:13:26] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:13:26] <jacky^> SWPadnos: i tried it for 5 min an close it immediatly :\
[23:13:53] <SWPadnos> jacky^: not the CAD program - the allpication to share a keyboard and mouse on different computers
[23:13:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I REALLY like the copy-n-paste between machiens
[23:14:04] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[23:14:08] <Jymmm> synergy2.sf.net
[23:14:08] <jacky^> ah.. sorry
[23:14:15] <SWPadnos> my problem is that I'd need several more monitors on my desk
[23:14:20] <fenn> that's nice.. share your home directory and you'll be set
[23:14:34] <SWPadnos> Ihave 3 for my main computer, and the center one is dual-input
[23:14:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Well, the laptop has it's own, but I still have my KVM switches as well.
[23:14:58] <SWPadnos> then there's the laptop, the server, the EMC machine, and the SGI :)
[23:15:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos it'll work on SGI too =)
[23:15:24] <SWPadnos> and the experimental Gentoo box, which uses the alternate input on the center monitor
[23:15:43] <fenn> * fenn drools
[23:15:46] <SWPadnos> what I need is a DWIT interface
[23:15:51] <SWPadnos> Do What I'm Thinking
[23:15:56] <Jymmm> Well, this monitor has dual inputs, so I can flip between them when ever
[23:16:13] <SWPadnos> yep - but there's no way for synergy to tell you've done it
[23:16:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos no need to, just move your mouse over
[23:17:06] <SWPadnos> that's the problem - I have a 3-output video card on one machine, and then dual or single on all the others
[23:17:13] <SWPadnos> and only 3 monitors on my desk
[23:17:26] <SWPadnos> and no room for more (unless I go to 15 inch ones - blecchh)
[23:17:36] <jacky^> SWPadnos: i remember a nice software, i was using with my palm ipaq and linux, moving the mouse out to the right it switch on the other monitor, and also the kb
[23:17:49] <SWPadnos> that's what we're talking about
[23:18:05] <Jymmm> synergy2.sf.net
[23:18:15] <jacky^> i don't think..
[23:18:18] <jacky^> a moment..
[23:18:36] <SWPadnos> it would be really cool if you could drag X windows between machines, and have the DISPLAY variable and xhost stuff done for you automatically :)
[23:18:40] <Jymmm> Just bought it http://k2cnc.com/CNC-router-KS-2525_detail.asp
[23:18:55] <Jymmm> that would be VNC
[23:18:59] <SWPadnos> cool - let us know if it's as good as it looks
[23:19:19] <SWPadnos> no - run a program on a machine, then decide you want to se eit on another monitor, which is on another machine
[23:19:25] <SWPadnos> so drag it across
[23:19:38] <fenn> SWPadnos: it would be cool if you had scsi CPU and i/o boards, and daisy-chain 200 computers together
[23:19:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Will be a month before shipped. I also had it modified to give me a 6.5" clearnace and a 5" Z travel
[23:19:50] <SWPadnos> or a beowulf cluster of those :)
[23:19:54] <jacky^> SWPadnos: the name is x2x
[23:19:59] <SWPadnos> ah
[23:20:00] <jacky^> is the same ?
[23:20:12] <Jymmm> beowolf cluster == hot water heater =)
[23:20:27] <jacky^> xhost
[23:20:32] <jacky^> x2x -to -east
[23:20:49] <SWPadnos> ah - interesting
[23:21:01] <jacky^> simple..
[23:21:09] <SWPadnos> synergy is similar, but it's cross platform
[23:21:17] <jacky^> i don't know if is good for what youre doing
[23:21:27] <SWPadnos> allows you to share between Linux, Windows, and others
[23:21:41] <SWPadnos> (don't know about mac - they have this one button thing going on)
[23:21:47] <jacky^> nice
[23:22:02] <SWPadnos> yep - mac also
[23:22:11] <fenn> mac uses ctrl and option keys to simulate 2 and 3 buttons
[23:22:25] <SWPadnos> and click-hold for right click
[23:22:28] <SWPadnos> I hate that
[23:22:33] <fenn> never heard of tat
[23:22:46] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Wouldm't that DWIT interface be a bit of a hazard?
[23:22:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - usually clicking and holding brings up a context menu
[23:23:11] <SWPadnos> Phydbleep: depends on what you're thinking now, doesn't it
[23:23:23] <fenn> buddhists would love it
[23:23:38] <SWPadnos> SWPs hate it
[23:24:05] <fenn> i mean the dwit interface
[23:24:11] <SWPadnos> ah - yes
[23:24:19] <SWPadnos> but keep it out of the hands of the President
[23:24:20] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Well.. Considering that I frequently look at the caller ID and think "Oh fsck me" when relatives call..
[23:24:34] <SWPadnos> well - look at the bright side
[23:24:58] <SWPadnos> you could be looking at Halle Berry, and thinking the same thing
[23:25:22] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Frequently do. :)
[23:25:33] <SWPadnos> see - the positives may outweight the negatives :)
[23:32:38] <jacky^> i heard that is possible to use optical bar for cnc machine instead of leadscrew
[23:32:53] <jacky^> i googling but i never find it, anyone know ?
[23:33:16] <Phydbleep> jacky^: 'linear encoder'
[23:33:19] <SWPadnos> the optical bar would be a feedback device - a linear scale
[23:33:37] <jacky^> ah, okay
[23:33:54] <jacky^> should i search for linear encoder..
[23:34:27] <SWPadnos> it's only useful if you want to use the feedback for something
[23:34:38] <jacky^> i was searching optical bar :\
[23:34:39] <SWPadnos> usually encoders are used with servos, not steppers
[23:35:00] <jacky^> yes, i know
[23:35:17] <jacky^> the mine is just curiosity
[23:35:33] <jacky^> i don't have too much money :\
[23:35:47] <SWPadnos> and they cost too much money :)
[23:35:55] <jacky^> i know :(
[23:39:46] <jacky^> bah
[23:39:58] <jacky^> it's fantascience for me :)
[23:43:46] <fenn> what, encoders?
[23:44:05] <jacky^> yes
[23:44:14] <fenn> they're something like $2 on ebay
[23:44:50] <jacky^> yeah, we're talking about linear bar encoder
[23:45:20] <jacky^> i also founf schematic using a mouse electronics as encoder :P
[23:45:44] <jacky^> found*
[23:46:18] <fenn> well.. make sure you use something else to count the pulses.. the chips in mouse encoders lose counts sometimes
[23:46:31] <fenn> or use an absolute encoder
[23:46:58] <fenn> a printer/scanner i took apart used a linear encoder, so they can't be that expensive (it was plastic ribbon)
[23:47:28] <jacky^> cool
[23:47:42] <jacky^> i've not much experience on this
[23:47:55] <SWPadnos> a rotary encoder gives you really good resolution for the price
[23:48:07] <fenn> but usually you don't need that much resolution
[23:48:10] <SWPadnos> true
[23:48:25] <SWPadnos> The encoders on my servos are 1000CPR, or 4000 PPR
[23:48:48] <fenn> check out mechanical/electrical encoders.. they use them as adjustment dials on digital equipment all the time
[23:48:48] <SWPadnos> with the gearing and ballscrews I have, I'll be getting 40,000 pulses per inch on the table
[23:49:42] <SWPadnos> (which should be plenty :) )
[23:51:47] <jacky^> i just get my optoswitches working tnx to Phydbleep :\ so, i have no idea of how digital circuits works
[23:51:49] <fenn> i hope so
[23:53:04] <Jymmm> optoswitches, being used as limit switches?
[23:53:15] <jacky^> yes
[23:53:27] <jacky^> they seems work very well
[23:53:28] <Jymmm> dont like microswitches huh?
[23:53:48] <jacky^> they called opto-interrupter
[23:54:21] <jacky^> i'm testing in my cnc from a week ago
[23:54:27] <jacky^> np
[23:54:42] <fenn> you are using them for homing, right?
[23:55:03] <jacky^> no, for homing i don't know the procedure
[23:55:16] <jacky^> for now, i can home only z axis
[23:55:48] <jacky^> once the z axis is homed, i don't know how to do with the others
[23:56:31] <jacky^> the + - limit switch are working, of course
[23:56:34] <fenn> well... supposedly you can't use the limit switches as home switches, since it goes into e-stop when it hits the limits
[23:56:54] <Jymmm> if you use microswitches, you can.
[23:57:03] <jacky^> if i try to home a single axis it work
[23:57:14] <SWPadnos> I think there's an option to use a limit as home
[23:57:21] <jacky^> go in the direction i setting in ini file
[23:57:24] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if it's in the compile or in the ini
[23:57:25] <jacky^> an homed
[23:57:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos (I was talking about using the other connection on the microswitches NC/NO)
[23:57:45] <SWPadnos> you can also override hte limit switch (wo you can jog back within limits)
[23:57:49] <jacky^> the numbers from yellow become green
[23:58:01] <jacky^> and stop to travel
[23:58:08] <jacky^> so i assume it work
[23:58:41] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: depends on the switch - make before break etc.
[23:59:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Eh, I'll leave extra room just in case =)
[23:59:30] <SWPadnos> good idea :)
[23:59:46] <SWPadnos> plus, the limits aren't necessarily in the same place as home
[23:59:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos ?!