#emc | Logs for 2005-06-05

[00:42:42] <fenn> i found a nice splash screen for emc today
[00:42:51] <fenn> it's very "splashy"
[00:43:15] <fenn> http://www.sandboxdp.com/images/jpgs/drill.jpg
[00:43:29] <fenn> i sent the artist an email asking if we could use it
[00:49:54] <fenn> logger_aj, bookmark
[00:49:54] <fenn> See
[00:50:58] <fenn> sigh.. gotta uninstall kde 3.4 and reinstall 3.3
[01:44:39] <jmkasunich> ValarQ: you still here?
[02:28:18] <mshaver> mshaver is now known as mshaver_away
[04:17:00] <Phydbleep> Woohoo!.. This new toolpost is the shiznit.
[04:17:55] <bpmw_> Hi all you late night party people :)
[04:19:17] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: I got the new toolpost mounted.. It is tight. :)
[04:20:39] <bpmw_> Does anybody no what this error means, I got this while trying to verify a program today and cant figure out what to look for. It's "all axes missing with motion code".
[04:21:16] <dan_falck> bpmw_: you still there?
[04:22:02] <bpmw_> yup
[04:22:11] <dan_falck> do you have a G0, G1, G2, or G3 without a X, Y, or Z?
[04:22:40] <dan_falck> just my guess
[04:22:46] <bpmw_> I'll check. one sec.
[04:27:08] <bpmw_> Hi dan,yes that is the problem the last half of the program all the G1's are fine all the G0's are missing a value. Stupid Cam program. It crashed on me 5 times over the last 3 days.
[04:28:59] <bpmw_> The funny thing is I ran the simulation in the Cam program and it seemed fine!
[04:29:12] <weyland> anyone here actually use the webersys stuff on the BDI cd?
[04:29:52] <bpmw_> Hi Weyland, not me.
[04:30:16] <weyland> bpmw: hey there
[04:30:31] <weyland> anyone know anyone that *does*?
[04:31:01] <bpmw_> Thanks Dan, I'll have to go and fix now so can run in morning. Bye All.
[04:31:12] <weyland> nite
[04:31:25] <dan_falck> hi weyland
[04:31:31] <weyland> hi dan
[04:31:43] <weyland> howzit?
[04:31:47] <dan_falck> did you get your mill going?
[04:31:53] <weyland> sure DID~!
[04:32:00] <weyland> with the help of a few good people
[04:32:02] <weyland> :)
[04:32:12] <weyland> used the sh|t oughta it today
[04:32:14] <dan_falck> is cutter comp working now?
[04:32:28] <weyland> it appears to be, with alex's changes
[04:32:42] <weyland> THAT was a relief
[04:32:56] <dan_falck> so you're using emc2?
[04:33:01] <weyland> yes
[04:33:12] <dan_falck> do you like it better than emc1?
[04:33:23] <weyland> honestly?... ...
[04:33:29] <weyland> for people like me...
[04:33:55] <weyland> I don't really see a difference, other than it runs my mill a LOT better
[04:34:01] <weyland> or should I say motors?
[04:34:15] <dan_falck> are they running smoother than emc1?
[04:34:20] <weyland> I've changed it up to use the mini gui
[04:34:24] <weyland> oh yes~!
[04:34:28] <weyland> MUCH
[04:34:28] <dan_falck> cool
[04:34:33] <weyland> HUGE difference there
[04:34:39] <weyland> I had no idea
[04:34:46] <weyland> that my mill could run so well
[04:34:53] <weyland> let me put it this way -
[04:34:55] <weyland> ...
[04:35:34] <weyland> I bought a small lathe yesterday, for the sole purpose of converting it to EMC use
[04:35:41] <dan_falck> do you have home switches on your table?
[04:35:46] <weyland> no
[04:35:57] <weyland> think I will eventually, but not yet
[04:36:18] <dan_falck> I have a mill/drill too and use dial indicators at end of travel
[04:36:23] <dan_falck> for peace of mind
[04:36:38] <weyland> so far, it's been really good about that
[04:36:38] <dan_falck> send it back to point where dial zeros out
[04:37:09] <weyland> I ran some small repetitive parts today, at a pretty good speed, and it repeated all day
[04:37:16] <dan_falck> right now, I'm slowly getting the mill back together, it's not quite there yet
[04:37:21] <dan_falck> cool
[04:37:39] <dan_falck> moved across country twice in 2 1/2 years
[04:37:41] <weyland> I was in that same place, but made the decision to say "fsck it" and just get to the business of business
[04:37:47] <weyland> oooohhhh that sux
[04:38:04] <dan_falck> used to have nice little side business two moves ago...
[04:38:20] <dan_falck> just getting my shit back together
[04:38:26] <weyland> well, that's how my shop happened...
[04:38:47] <weyland> work was getting the way of my side work, and starting to cost me money for showing up to work, so I quit
[04:39:03] <dan_falck> ha. that's a good reason to leave!
[04:39:10] <weyland> WAS GREAT
[04:39:27] <dan_falck> so you got a lathe to retrofit
[04:39:30] <weyland> best "fsck you" I ever gave
[04:39:35] <weyland> yep~!
[04:39:51] <dan_falck> you're going to do the contouring on your parts with it
[04:40:41] <dan_falck> in the mean time, could you use your mill with some lathe tools?
[04:40:47] <weyland> bought it jsut for the brass nutz, but happened (more like stepped in shit and came out smelling like a rose) across an upgrade to a larger one, so took the opportunity
[04:41:00] <dan_falck> chuck up parts in collet and clamp tool holder in vise
[04:41:16] <weyland> I thought of that~!
[04:41:26] <weyland> used to do it when I was gunsmithing...
[04:41:28] <dan_falck> I've done it a long time ago
[04:41:34] <dan_falck> fun
[04:41:39] <weyland> made many a firing pin that way
[04:41:45] <weyland> on that same mill
[04:41:52] <weyland> almost 20 years ago
[04:42:11] <dan_falck> those mill/drill tables look a lot like the tables on Wasino LG-8 CNC lathes
[04:42:28] <weyland> heh
[04:42:35] <dan_falck> I've toyed with the idea of buying a mill/drill just to rob the table off it
[04:42:51] <weyland> was gonna get one of those little 7x10 mini lathes
[04:43:02] <dan_falck> mount a Dunham or similar 5C headstock perpendicular to it
[04:43:10] <weyland> but happened across a 9x20 for almost less money
[04:43:15] <dan_falck> cool
[04:43:19] <weyland> hmmmmmm
[04:43:46] <weyland> that's a neat idae
[04:43:48] <weyland> idea
[04:43:53] <dan_falck> throw the column and head in the pile for a future drill press
[04:44:18] <dan_falck> or just buy an LG-8 on Ebay ;)
[04:44:24] <weyland> haha
[04:44:27] <weyland> yeah, there's that...
[04:44:44] <weyland> which is why we buy the little stuff and do what we can...
[04:45:36] <dan_falck> check this out: http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/photoalbum.html
[04:47:05] <weyland> HOLY CR@P~!
[04:47:12] <weyland> that is KEWL~!
[04:47:21] <weyland> W@W
[04:47:34] <weyland> did he make the tool changer?
[04:47:43] <dan_falck> someone on IRC earlier gave us the link
[04:47:47] <dan_falck> yea I think so
[04:48:26] <dan_falck> check out some of the other pages, I think he has some design work (maybe in SolidWorks)
[04:48:29] <weyland> hold on,,, trying to read it with my limited forgotten german
[04:48:55] <dan_falck> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/photoalbum.html
[04:51:45] <weyland> nice... very clean design
[04:51:56] <weyland> I really like what he did with the tool changer
[04:52:02] <weyland> makes good sense
[04:52:24] <dan_falck> yep
[04:52:54] <weyland> I may just have to do something like that for my lathe
[04:53:06] <weyland> I do have that extra stepper...
[04:53:09] <weyland> lol
[04:53:34] <weyland> a solenoid engaging a locking pin ...
[04:53:59] <weyland> mount it all on the cross slide...
[04:54:11] <weyland> oh crap.. .who am I kidding?
[04:54:16] <weyland> I have too much work already
[04:54:21] <weyland> lol
[04:54:26] <dan_falck> yes, he has an incredible toy there
[04:54:46] <dan_falck> I think the mill/drill table loaded with tool blocks would be the easy way
[04:55:09] <dan_falck> we have all kinds of different cnc lathes at work
[04:55:18] <dan_falck> turrets, tables, multispindles
[04:55:27] <weyland> truth be told, while that way is simpler, his way really makes life easier
[04:55:29] <dan_falck> the little LG-8s do pretty well
[04:55:46] <weyland> I used tobe around them, but not for a while now
[04:55:48] <dan_falck> the little table is actually faster
[04:55:56] <weyland> you think?
[04:56:11] <dan_falck> you can set up the tools really close to the work and come in from either side
[04:56:27] <weyland> I mean, yeah, it's *faster*, but you really can get limited by having so many on there
[04:56:37] <dan_falck> true
[04:56:39] <weyland> that tool changed makes life *SO* much simpler
[04:56:47] <weyland> changer
[04:57:02] <dan_falck> but, you could probably mount 4 or 5 tool blocks on a table
[04:57:02] <weyland> changer/turret/whatever
[04:57:11] <weyland> sure you could
[04:57:30] <dan_falck> the turrets sure are cool though
[04:57:30] <weyland> but space becomes a premium, and coding has to work within that emvelope
[04:57:54] <weyland> the turret gives so much more flexibility
[04:58:18] <weyland> oh, gods, the wheels are turning...
[04:58:22] <dan_falck> we've got some machines (Sl-15s) that have one turret perpendicular to another
[04:58:45] <weyland> vertical movement to align with the chuck?
[04:59:06] <dan_falck> so the one on the front has it's rotational axis parallel to the chuck
[04:59:17] <dan_falck> the other is perpendicular to that
[04:59:31] <weyland> how does it move between the two?
[04:59:46] <weyland> up/down, or forward/back?
[04:59:56] <dan_falck> well they actually are mounted on their own sets of XZ ways
[05:00:00] <weyland> ah
[05:00:01] <weyland> okay
[05:00:03] <dan_falck> the chuck is in the center
[05:00:07] <weyland> right
[05:00:10] <weyland> gotcha
[05:00:26] <dan_falck> the two different turrets are controlled by two different controls
[05:00:47] <dan_falck> they hand off motion to each other with M codes above 100. ie M100 etc
[05:00:55] <weyland> right...
[05:01:09] <weyland> man, that guy's done some real work over there...
[05:01:17] <dan_falck> it gets kind of hairy looking at two programs for one part
[05:01:25] <weyland> you see his headstock and collet set up?
[05:01:27] <weyland> I bet
[05:02:13] <dan_falck> on which page?
[05:02:36] <weyland> hold on, lemme get it
[05:03:20] <weyland> http://mitglied.lycos.de/dieter096/photoalbum0.html
[05:03:33] <weyland> made the tool holders on his lathe
[05:03:40] <weyland> nicely done
[05:03:56] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep still wishes Babelfish would translate those pages.
[05:04:38] <dan_falck> looks like he's making a mill spindle with toolchanger
[05:04:47] <weyland> well, my german is pretty fsck'n rusty, but I'll try if you want
[05:04:52] <weyland> yeah
[05:05:45] <fenn> phew.. finally got kde all stitched back together
[05:05:46] <Phydbleep> Actually I wish he'd move that off Lycos which should solve that problem
[05:06:04] <fenn> phydbleep, babelfish worked for me
[05:06:14] <fenn> er, googlefish or whatever actually
[05:07:28] <fenn> http://www.google.com/language_tools?hl=en
[05:11:45] <weyland> wow, neat stuff
[05:13:00] <weyland> so what does everyone use to design their parts?
[05:13:14] <fenn> pencil/paper
[05:13:23] <fenn> if that
[05:13:27] <weyland> lol
[05:13:46] <fenn> still looking for a good (free) cad program
[05:14:17] <dan_falck> fenn: thanks for the google translator url
[05:14:22] <weyland> actually, I used the qcad thatcomes with the BDI today, and wasn't too disappointed with it
[05:14:22] <dan_falck> works well
[05:14:40] <weyland> it aint solidworks, but its okay
[05:14:41] <fenn> qcad's alright for what it is
[05:14:48] <fenn> it crashes sometimes, so save yer work
[05:14:58] <weyland> haha, okay
[05:15:11] <weyland> don't really understand the synergy thing
[05:15:25] <fenn> try out the demo/tutorial movies
[05:15:32] <weyland> okay
[05:15:37] <weyland> have you used it?
[05:15:45] <weyland> like it? hate it?
[05:15:46] <fenn> no, i've only watched the demo movies :)
[05:15:49] <weyland> ha
[05:15:56] <fenn> it looks cool from what i've seen
[05:16:08] <weyland> yeah, that seems to be the problem, too
[05:16:18] <fenn> can't figure out how to use it though
[05:16:35] <weyland> "looks kewl" but I can't find anyone that has been actually USING it
[05:16:50] <dan_falck> I have no idea how to use it either
[05:16:59] <weyland> I keep trying to get SW to run in wine...
[05:17:02] <weyland> no love
[05:17:10] <dan_falck> websys: are you logging?
[05:17:26] <fenn> snicker
[05:17:37] <weyland> logging?
[05:17:55] <fenn> websys = synergy's representative ?
[05:17:55] <dan_falck> websys is the programmer of synergy
[05:18:03] <dan_falck> yes
[05:18:05] <weyland> ahhhhhh...
[05:18:13] <weyland> take a clue...
[05:18:49] <dan_falck> it's probably a great system that none of us understand
[05:18:53] <weyland> I didn't find it nearly as intuitive as most other stuff I've tried
[05:18:58] <weyland> zackly
[05:19:06] <weyland> but then, so was smartcam...
[05:19:17] <dan_falck> yes, I remember smartcam
[05:19:23] <weyland> smartcam ROCKED
[05:19:25] <dan_falck> cool system
[05:19:28] <weyland> for its time
[05:19:53] <weyland> was YEARS ahead of everyone else
[05:20:04] <dan_falck> they're back now
[05:20:15] <weyland> Really. No shit? Wow.
[05:20:16] <dan_falck> the original guys got control of it again
[05:20:17] <weyland> kewl
[05:20:30] <weyland> pro'lly too late, tho
[05:20:33] <dan_falck> they're just down in Eugene Oregon, south of here
[05:20:39] <weyland> I mean, everyone is out there, now
[05:20:53] <weyland> I still have a copy of it
[05:21:00] <weyland> SmartCAM 10, I believe...
[05:21:28] <weyland> haven't seen it in years, but it's here, somewhere
[05:21:30] <fenn> version 12
[05:21:35] <weyland> lol
[05:21:43] <fenn> er, nevermind .. that's the current version
[05:21:49] <weyland> ahahaha
[05:21:52] <dan_falck> we used to use the DOS version
[05:22:01] <weyland> wow, you're OLD
[05:22:07] <dan_falck> yep
[05:22:18] <fenn> huh? you mean people actually used DOS?
[05:22:23] <fenn> what's DOS?
[05:22:35] <weyland> ha
[05:22:43] <weyland> I remember dos autocad
[05:22:46] <dan_falck> I don't think they ever had a C64 version ,but I might be wrong
[05:22:51] <weyland> lol
[05:22:52] <dan_falck> ....
[05:23:28] <dan_falck> those were the days
[05:23:28] <weyland> so what do you use, dan?
[05:23:54] <dan_falck> I use Vector on winders here at home
[05:24:08] <weyland> how do you like it?
[05:24:10] <dan_falck> we use paper and pencil at work
[05:24:15] <dan_falck> it's ok
[05:24:23] <weyland> they have a linux?
[05:24:44] <dan_falck> no linux version , but if you buy win4lin, it will work under linux
[05:24:54] <weyland> the only reason I have a win machine left is to run sw
[05:25:00] <dan_falck> you can probably run Acad under win4lin too
[05:25:00] <weyland> ah, okay
[05:25:06] <weyland> I hate acad
[05:25:13] <weyland> left it in 2000
[05:25:16] <dan_falck> or maybe SW
[05:25:26] <weyland> would LOVE to run sw in linux
[05:25:29] <weyland> !!!!!!!
[05:25:40] <dan_falck> I think the guys who make win4lin are called Trelos
[05:25:50] <weyland> hmmm... lemme go google
[05:25:52] <weyland> brb
[05:26:01] <dan_falck> it's been about 4 or 5 years
[05:26:32] <dan_falck> windows 98 ran faster and more stable under win4lin than it did on it's own
[05:26:46] <dan_falck> which was kind of weird...
[05:27:12] <weyland> hey, ...
[05:27:20] <Phydbleep> dan_falck: Yeah, I noticed that with VMWare/98 and WineX/98. :)
[05:27:24] <weyland> $120 for the Pro
[05:27:38] <weyland> if it ran SW, I'd pay it
[05:27:52] <weyland> gonna send'm mail and ask
[05:29:41] <fenn> weyland, why exactly doesn't SW work in wine?
[05:30:59] <weyland> fenn: I really don't know, I'v been working with others that know wine, sending them the errors and logs after we try something different each time
[05:31:11] <fenn> hmm.
[05:31:17] <weyland> are you a wine guy?
[05:31:25] <fenn> maybe you should send me a copy of SW and i'll see if i can get it to work :)
[05:31:37] <fenn> never used wine in my life
[05:31:55] <dan_falck> I have used it with Rhino in the past
[05:32:01] <dan_falck> and Vector
[05:32:10] <fenn> but people keep raving about solidworks and i wanna see what the fuss is all about
[05:32:13] <dan_falck> but my computer was too slow
[05:32:37] <weyland> fenn: the only reason I have a win box is to run sw
[05:33:10] <fenn> that's something to be proud of
[05:33:57] <weyland> and that's all that box does...
[05:33:58] <Phydbleep> weyland: It's still 100% win?
[05:34:38] <weyland> Phydbleep: as far as I know, yes. there are always rumors and such, but I've never seen anything real for th linux community
[05:34:52] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has thoroughly lobotomized his XP box with XP-Lite, LiteStep and Cygwin...
[05:34:56] <A-L-P-H-A> wow.
[05:35:10] <Phydbleep> weyland: No, I was talking about the pc. :)
[05:35:24] <weyland> oh
[05:35:28] <weyland> don't understand...
[05:35:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has 4(I think) of the 87 required windows components left. :)
[05:36:21] <A-L-P-H-A> poker. heads up. Oppponent has KK, I have A6 suited. Preflop, all in. comes up something, J6, J, 6. Full house!!! Won the game with pure luck.
[05:37:08] <dan_falck> all right....
[05:37:14] <Phydbleep> IE gone, Outlook gone, Messenger, Media spayer, Windows Update.. All gone. :)
[05:37:28] <A-L-P-H-A> nlite?
[05:37:53] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: XP-Lite
[05:38:21] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.nliteos.com/
[05:39:37] <fenn> speaking of bloat removal, i switched from kde to icewm today
[05:40:23] <fenn> suggest you try it if you've only ever used kde
[05:40:33] <weyland> time 4 bed, thanks for the insights boyz
[05:40:46] <weyland> nite
[05:42:07] <fenn> what's the point of a slant bed lathe?
[05:42:58] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn? uh... makes good cones?
[05:44:13] <dan_falck> chips drop onto a conveyor and don't cover ways
[05:44:44] <dan_falck> chip removal is a big deal with production
[05:44:51] <fenn> right
[05:44:58] <A-L-P-H-A> oh!!! production slanted ones.
[05:45:05] <fenn> i thought maybe it was stiffer or something
[05:45:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I know whatwe're talking about now... instead of just talking out of myass
[05:48:13] <dan_falck> talk to you guys later. gotta go
[05:48:36] <fenn> me too
[08:20:17] <anonimasu> tmorning people
[08:28:01] <ValarQ> morning
[08:35:49] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[08:35:58] <anonimasu> got woken up by customers
[08:40:05] <robin_sz> really? bastardss eh! ... bet they wanted to buy thngs too?
[08:40:13] <anonimasu> nope
[08:40:18] <anonimasu> just support :/
[08:40:22] <robin_sz> ahh.
[08:40:33] <robin_sz> tree planting?
[08:40:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:40:44] <anonimasu> they had some questions :)
[08:40:47] <robin_sz> does it work?
[08:41:26] <robin_sz> [ yes | no | sometimes ]
[08:42:47] <robin_sz> did once, but we smacked it on a tree?
[08:43:57] <anonimasu> yes it does
[08:44:06] <robin_sz> good.
[08:44:12] <anonimasu> but I have some changes/improvements to make
[08:44:16] <robin_sz> right
[08:44:26] <robin_sz> I thought my solution was better
[08:45:16] <robin_sz> but, there are probably laws agaisnt dangling children by their ankles with a bag of tree seeds in one hand and a spade in the other.
[08:45:40] <robin_sz> 10 of them in a row on a big frame ...
[08:46:31] <anonimasu> haha
[08:46:36] <robin_sz> they would still suffer from the not working if you smack them on a tree stump bug though
[08:47:03] <anonimasu> yeah and kids wont work 24/7
[08:47:04] <anonimasu> ;)
[08:47:18] <robin_sz> they wont?
[08:47:23] <anonimasu> nope..
[08:47:27] <robin_sz> oh.
[08:47:29] <anonimasu> they run 3 shifts with the machine today
[08:47:29] <anonimasu> ;)
[08:47:36] <robin_sz> proably need some sort of autochanger then
[08:47:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[08:47:59] <anonimasu> well they have a crane ;)
[08:48:02] <anonimasu> but I doubt that will do
[08:48:04] <robin_sz> is it out there planting now?
[08:48:34] <anonimasu> yes
[08:48:51] <robin_sz> nice. how many units?
[08:48:57] <anonimasu> one right now
[08:49:03] <robin_sz> and a spare?
[08:49:09] <anonimasu> I got the other one on work waiting for the customer to puck it up
[08:49:11] <anonimasu> pick..
[08:49:19] <robin_sz> right
[08:49:50] <anonimasu> so I have access to it today and tomorrow
[08:49:51] <robin_sz> hehm I learnt someting on the gecko list
[08:50:12] <robin_sz> mount geckos vertically, with the blue connector at the bottom
[08:51:23] <robin_sz> common cause of failure is bits if wire and stuff ending up on the board, shorting stuff out anc causing fires
[08:51:36] <anonimasu> oh, isnt that common sense?
[08:51:42] <anonimasu> :D
[08:51:48] <robin_sz> sort of
[08:52:04] <robin_sz> I just cant remember which way up they are in many of my machines ...
[08:52:52] <robin_sz> we finished the Bridgeport conversion this week too.
[08:53:19] <robin_sz> removed about 2m^^3 of cabinets from it ...
[08:53:35] <anonimasu> ok
[08:53:40] <anonimasu> did you get emc to run on it?
[08:53:46] <robin_sz> replaced with a small box containing 3 geckos a toroid and a Baldor ESB
[08:53:59] <robin_sz> nah, went for a Baldor inthe end
[08:54:18] <robin_sz> we needed to do a lot of contouring work
[08:54:28] <anonimasu> heh
[08:54:38] <robin_sz> was not convinced the emc TP would cope
[08:55:00] <robin_sz> the baldor was like, 500 quid
[08:55:10] <anonimasu> how many $ is that?
[08:55:16] <robin_sz> 850?
[08:55:22] <anonimasu> heh
[08:55:27] <anonimasu> cheap
[08:55:39] <robin_sz> yeah
[08:55:52] <robin_sz> has all the IO and n channels of stepper or servo
[08:56:22] <anonimasu> too bad.. it looks like the tp will work wonders soon
[08:56:28] <robin_sz> yeah
[08:56:33] <robin_sz> things are moving on
[08:56:45] <robin_sz> but this has to make parts this week
[08:58:02] <anonimasu> what speeds do you run it at?
[08:58:38] <robin_sz> not fast ... 1200mm/min // but paths made from oodles of teeny segments
[08:58:51] <robin_sz> in titanium
[08:58:59] <robin_sz> stopping is not an option
[08:59:04] <anonimasu> how fast do you run your spindle?
[08:59:29] <robin_sz> ahh, "subject to ongoing experiment" :)
[08:59:44] <anonimasu> so you havent milled any TI yet?
[08:59:59] <robin_sz> some, test peieces just to see what happened
[09:00:31] <anonimasu> I thought you needed 14000rpm and slow feed to get it to cut nicely
[09:00:39] <robin_sz> nah
[09:00:48] <robin_sz> that would kill it
[09:00:52] <robin_sz> it work hardens
[09:01:02] <robin_sz> you need to keep it cutting, dont stop
[09:01:12] <robin_sz> if you let it rub, then it hardens
[09:01:17] <robin_sz> <fnarr>
[09:01:24] <anonimasu> yeah I know.. but alpha was talking about it earlier
[09:01:39] <robin_sz> with CNC it is supposed to be easy ...
[09:01:49] <anonimasu> heh..
[09:01:50] <robin_sz> we know a firm here in the UK that does noting else
[09:01:56] <robin_sz> chatted to their machinist
[09:02:02] <robin_sz> wh said:
[09:02:41] <robin_sz> easiest metal to work once you get it right ... machines beutifully, but people like to spread scare stories about it, thats OK, we wont stop them :)
[09:02:45] <robin_sz> or words to that effect
[09:02:59] <anonimasu> ok :)
[09:03:01] <anonimasu> nice
[09:03:13] <robin_sz> hope it is easy, or we hav problems :)
[09:03:16] <anonimasu> but I guess you still need a super rigid machine to cut it..
[09:03:28] <robin_sz> well, the bridgeport is up to it.
[09:03:48] <robin_sz> and its oh so smooth with microstepping
[09:04:14] <anonimasu> ok
[09:04:57] <robin_sz> oh, I took some photos of the toroid winder as we wound the txfmr for it
[09:06:22] <robin_sz> now, how to get them of the phone ...
[09:07:40] <anonimasu> hm, I guess I should go to work and code some so I can take tonight off
[09:08:29] <anonimasu> I am waiting for the parts I have to make to get finished so I can re-build my mill
[09:13:22] <anonimasu> :)
[09:15:15] <robin_sz> nice
[09:15:37] <robin_sz> now I have managed to persuade the laser to cut 8mm steel, I want to try 10mm
[09:15:45] <robin_sz> how hard can it be?
[09:16:15] <robin_sz> I keep thinking af the stuff I can make with that ...
[09:16:43] <robin_sz> 10mm plate means you can make *strong* welded assemblies. A cnc mill would be a possibility
[09:27:59] <anonimasu> hm, strange..
[09:28:16] <anonimasu> I thought you could cut heavy stuff with your laser..
[09:28:42] <Phydbleep> Woohoo!.. This new toolpost is SWEET!
[09:29:21] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been playing with test cuts with the new toolpost.
[09:29:42] <robin_sz> 8mm is the most ive done ... it cuts perfectly
[09:29:48] <anonimasu> ok
[09:29:50] <anonimasu> well go for it
[09:29:57] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: drop on tool holders?
[09:30:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu got a toolpost a bit ago
[09:30:01] <anonimasu> :)
[09:30:04] <anonimasu> it's wonderfu
[09:30:06] <anonimasu> l
[09:30:09] <robin_sz> yeah
[09:30:11] <alex_joni> morning
[09:30:27] <robin_sz> one thing I do know .. you can never have too many tool holders for it
[09:30:35] <robin_sz> 6 is good, 10 is better
[09:30:39] <robin_sz> 4 is not enough
[09:30:53] <anonimasu> anything is better then a normal toolpost
[09:30:58] <robin_sz> oh yes
[09:31:08] <anonimasu> I find out you wont use that many in real life..
[09:31:18] <anonimasu> err found..
[09:31:41] <robin_sz> 4 was a pain, 6 I find I occasioanlyl have to swap, 10 would be ideal
[09:31:47] <anonimasu> got 7 at work.. it's enough
[09:31:49] <anonimasu> :)
[09:32:00] <anonimasu> I usually swap the small boring bar to the larger one though
[09:32:07] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Groz type.
[09:32:09] <anonimasu> but thas not that often
[09:32:14] <robin_sz> Groz?
[09:32:38] <Phydbleep> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/v.ford/gt.htm
[09:33:29] <anonimasu> I need to order a boring head soon
[09:33:36] <robin_sz> got it, looks neat
[09:33:45] <alex_joni> that's boring ;)
[09:34:13] <robin_sz> all alloy?
[09:34:15] <anonimasu> hello alex
[09:34:25] <ValarQ> hi folks
[09:34:28] <alex_joni> hey anders
[09:34:54] <alex_joni> yo ValarQ
[09:35:10] <Phydbleep> With a 3-way carbide cutter I can surface like mad.. Maybe 5 minutes with emery cloth to get good seals on steel.
[09:35:24] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: All steel. :)
[09:35:31] <robin_sz> right
[09:35:35] <robin_sz> phew :)
[09:36:01] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is searching for the reason to his 'joint error'
[09:36:30] <alex_joni> did you try changing max_accel, and max_vel ?
[09:36:32] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: Wet papers?
[09:36:41] <alex_joni> ValarQ: just remebered
[09:36:43] <robin_sz> mine has a Dickson T2 toolpost
[09:36:48] <alex_joni> you had ferror set for inches
[09:36:49] <ValarQ> Phydbleep: papers?
[09:37:00] <alex_joni> ValarQ: now for mm that's incredibly low
[09:37:03] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: Never mind.. Bad joke. :)
[09:37:14] <alex_joni> ValarQ: try increasing ferror and min_ferror
[09:37:15] <ValarQ> alex_joni: ok
[09:37:27] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=633&item=7521391984&rd=1
[09:37:29] <robin_sz> that style
[09:38:04] <alex_joni> ValarQ: min_ferror = 0.002 (that's a bit low in mm ;)
[09:38:22] <alex_joni> make that 0.5 or so
[09:39:10] <alex_joni> did you guys hear about keyhole?
[09:39:16] <alex_joni> www.keyhole.com
[09:39:35] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i'm testing 0.127 now
[09:39:47] <alex_joni> ok
[09:40:30] <Phydbleep> WTH are the triangular carbide cutter chips called?
[09:41:37] <robin_sz> tips?
[09:41:43] <robin_sz> inserts?
[09:42:13] <alex_joni> I just call them tccc's :))
[09:42:33] <robin_sz> eBay is a good source
[09:42:44] <Phydbleep> carbide inserts
[09:42:45] <robin_sz> I guess they fit easily in a pocket at the end of a shift
[09:43:21] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Then send me some inserts and a set of holders. :)
[09:43:28] <alex_joni> robin_sz: you wouldn't :)
[09:44:04] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=64819&item=7520341893&rd=1
[09:45:52] <Phydbleep> http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/toolholder/toolholder.html
[09:46:24] <Phydbleep> That's almost the same as the one I have.
[09:46:33] <robin_sz> http://search-desc.ebay.co.uk/carbide-inserts_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfromZR10QQfrtsZ50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftsZ2QQsacatZQ2d1
[09:46:39] <robin_sz> loads of inserts ...
[09:48:33] <robin_sz> given that you can often pick them up on ebay for like 30 dollars .. its easier to buy the real thing ?
[09:49:54] <alex_joni> robin_sz: did you check out keyhole?
[09:50:11] <robin_sz> keyhole?
[09:50:25] <alex_joni> http://www.keyhole.com/body.php?c=popup&h=support&t=coverageListDetail&map=europe
[09:50:32] <Phydbleep> KH-x series satellite images.
[09:50:45] <robin_sz> looking
[09:51:04] <alex_joni> you need to install some SW
[09:51:15] <alex_joni> unfortunately not free
[09:51:18] <robin_sz> ahh
[09:51:19] <alex_joni> ValarQ: any luck?
[09:51:48] <alex_joni> but 7 day trial
[09:52:24] <ValarQ> alex_joni: nope, min_ferror=.1 now
[09:52:45] <alex_joni> try even higher ;)
[09:52:56] <ValarQ> .5 is up
[09:53:52] <robin_sz> cute
[09:54:27] <alex_joni> ValarQ: also you might test ferror higher values
[09:54:39] <alex_joni> and there's deadband
[09:54:46] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i'm using ferror=.5 now
[09:55:03] <alex_joni> and min_ferror ?
[09:55:08] <ValarQ> .5
[09:56:18] <alex_joni> looking at mill_mm_freq.ini (that's mm settigns for the minimill)
[09:56:43] <alex_joni> MAX_VELOCITY = 36
[09:56:53] <alex_joni> DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 60
[09:56:59] <alex_joni> MAX_ACCELERATION = 60
[09:57:11] <alex_joni> FERROR = 26
[09:57:18] <alex_joni> MIN_FERROR = 0.260
[09:57:34] <alex_joni> try these
[09:57:58] <ValarQ> i don't have any mill_mm_freq.ini
[09:58:23] <alex_joni> well.. it is included on the BDI4
[09:58:33] <alex_joni> but try the values I posted
[09:58:37] <ValarQ> ok
[09:58:45] <alex_joni> btw. the ini's are in /usr/local/emc/*.ini
[09:58:53] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/trajectory.h: Header to provide new trajectory planner. Not all functions implemented, others are just wrappers around new functions.
[10:00:39] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i'm trying to run the 3d_chips file from nc_files
[10:02:02] <alex_joni> ValarQ: ok
[10:06:17] <ValarQ> i changed the MIN_FERROR to 2.260 and it seems to work a lot better
[10:10:46] <alex_joni> great
[10:10:51] <alex_joni> robin_sz: this is me: 45�44'24.85''N, 21�12'40.00''E
[10:25:39] <alex_joni> ValarQ: iirc MIN_FERROR is the ferror for speed
[10:26:32] <jacky^> morning
[10:32:16] <alex_joni> jacky^: morning
[10:32:16] <alex_joni> cradek: are you there?
[10:33:35] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[10:57:25] <jacky^> uff.. :\
[10:59:27] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/trajectory.h: New functions declared - The old ones will go as soon as the required changes have propagated up to the top level.
[10:59:32] <alex_joni> what's up?
[11:13:02] <alex_joni> later guys
[11:39:16] <jacky^> hi alex_joni
[13:07:58] <jacky^> hi
[13:09:34] <jacky^> tryng to test emc with chips3d i get a nice penguin but is too small, can i get it in a bigger size ? depend on tool used maybe ?
[13:11:50] <ValarQ> i guess the length is hardcoded in the ngc file
[13:12:38] <ValarQ> output_scale in the ini-file might provide a solution but it's not right (at least i don't think it's right)
[13:12:56] <jacky^> i'm confused, because..
[13:13:26] <jacky^> on the top of the file i read the part is cut from 100x100x50 mm
[13:14:40] <jacky^> the size i get, instead, is about 15 mm x 30 mm
[13:15:02] <ValarQ> hmm
[13:19:23] <jacky^> the diameter of tool i used is 5,6 mm, can i specify it on tbl file using mm units ?
[13:19:40] <jacky^> it depend on what i choosed as units in .ini file ?
[13:20:13] <ValarQ> i'm not quite sure :/
[13:20:30] <jacky^> ok :-) np
[13:20:37] <jacky^> thanks
[13:21:39] <ValarQ> i have only been playing around with emc2 for a couple of days
[13:22:32] <ValarQ> it was a little challange to change everything to mm
[13:27:08] <anonimasu> hello
[13:27:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[13:27:42] <ValarQ> anonimasu: hi
[13:33:24] <anonimasu> UNITS=!
[13:33:24] <anonimasu> UNITS=1
[13:33:24] <anonimasu> ;)
[13:34:01] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I've been working until now
[13:36:06] <anonimasu> how are you doing?
[13:37:22] <anonimasu> I'll be getting engraving endmills soon
[13:37:23] <anonimasu> :)
[13:47:32] <ValarQ> anonimasu: there was more vars to change than UNITS
[13:51:52] <ValarQ> alex_joni: wb
[13:52:01] <alex_joni> yo
[14:01:25] <rayh> Hi Alex.
[14:01:32] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[14:01:35] <alex_joni> what's up?
[14:01:54] <rayh> Trying to find a flight to Romania.
[14:02:05] <alex_joni> heh.. coming over?
[14:03:07] <rayh> I think that I'll only make it to Germany.
[14:04:43] <alex_joni> too bad
[14:05:36] <rayh> Indeed.
[14:07:18] <rayh> Have you thought any more about the menuconfig system and EMC?
[14:08:06] <anonimasu> ValarQ: I know :)
[14:08:30] <anonimasu> I've got engraving endmills now
[14:08:34] <anonimasu> err engraving cutters..
[14:08:44] <alex_joni> rayh: I prepared it for now
[14:08:54] <anonimasu> now I just need to gear them 1:8
[14:08:55] <alex_joni> maybe later I'll add the menuconfig stuff
[14:09:00] <anonimasu> err gear the spindle
[14:09:03] <alex_joni> still thinking if it's not too much for emc2
[14:09:12] <alex_joni> so far we only have 3-4 modules
[14:09:23] <alex_joni> so it doesn't really pay off to select which to compile
[14:09:37] <alex_joni> when there'll be more than 10 drivers it'll make sense
[14:09:53] <anonimasu> :)
[14:10:55] <alex_joni> rayh: when will you be in germany?
[14:12:38] <rayh> July 18 -> August 8 or so
[14:12:39] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[14:12:49] <alex_joni> nice
[14:12:57] <alex_joni> I'll be there in september
[14:14:36] <rayh> Oh. Maxine has to be back for school then.
[14:19:22] <alex_joni> yeah.. going to essen
[14:19:26] <alex_joni> there's a big welding fair there
[14:19:51] <rayh> Okay. Where is it to be held?
[14:23:36] <alex_joni> essen
[14:24:00] <alex_joni> near d�sseldorf
[14:25:33] <rayh> Been by there. Not stopped.
[14:26:15] <rayh> So Kbuild or whatever is not going to have very high priority.
[14:27:30] <rayh> Hi Paul
[14:27:39] <paul_c> Hi Ray
[14:28:35] <rayh> Saw some of your numbers on shmem -- impressive.
[14:29:04] <paul_c> numbers... Where ?
[14:29:20] <alex_joni> hey paul
[14:29:41] <paul_c> Hi Alex
[14:29:49] <rayh> IRC yesterday.
[14:30:24] <alex_joni> seen your commits today
[14:30:28] <alex_joni> care to tell me what to do?
[14:30:33] <paul_c> Ah, right - The gross waste of shmem and those &@!% structs
[14:31:07] <alex_joni> that's not correct paul
[14:31:23] <alex_joni> it should read those &@!%_t structs :)
[14:32:00] <paul_c> alex_joni: You could start on the hal refactor that jmk has been promising....
[14:34:07] <paul_c> Then there is the question about the ability to link bool pins to int signals
[14:34:31] <rayh> paul_c: I heard you say that the status stuff a waste. How would you change it?
[14:34:54] <alex_joni> paul_c: I'm afraid I don't know enough about HAL to do the refactor
[14:35:07] <alex_joni> but I've seen zwisk has done some work in that area
[14:35:30] <paul_c> rayh: It's not the Status data that is the problem...
[14:35:52] <rayh> Oh. ??
[14:36:05] <paul_c> It's the mass of "debug" data and tp/tc stacks in shmem
[14:36:47] <paul_c> moving the tp/tc stacks out of shmem will save some 152K straight off.
[14:36:48] <rayh> How would we make a diffferent debugable rt.
[14:37:32] <paul_c> First question - Do the tc/tp stacks contain any usefull debug info ?
[14:37:48] <paul_c> short answer - No.
[14:42:24] <anonimasu> iab
[14:43:29] <anonimasu> well, int DEBUGINFO;
[14:43:30] <anonimasu> ^_^
[14:43:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni will be back later
[14:43:50] <anonimasu> is it a waste to try engraving anything at the wrong sped?
[14:43:53] <anonimasu> speed?
[14:43:55] <alex_joni> I'll read the logs
[14:43:57] <anonimasu> laters alex
[14:44:18] <alex_joni> paul_c: if you want me to do some work, let me know
[14:44:23] <alex_joni> drop me an email or smthg
[14:44:25] <alex_joni> bye guys
[14:48:52] <rayh> Isn't it possible to build emc without debug?
[14:49:24] <paul_c> In it's current form, no.
[14:51:01] <rayh> What would we need to do to make that possible, or is selective removal a better approach.
[14:52:05] <anonimasu> paul_c: how are things looking with the tp?
[14:53:12] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/trajectory.h: Add some doxygen & LaTeX comments.
[14:53:19] <anonimasu> ;)
[14:53:26] <paul_c> ;-p
[14:53:36] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:53:51] <SWPadnos> o_O
[14:54:12] <paul_c> rayh: First, identify what is Status, what is Debug, and what should never be seen outside of the code.
[14:54:48] <paul_c> 'eck - They're all turning up now. !
[14:55:08] <dave-e> run paul run...hide
[14:55:19] <SWPadnos> Is it possible to have a separate NML channel for debug info?
[14:55:40] <SWPadnos> which may not get used
[14:56:05] <anonimasu> heh
[14:56:21] <paul_c> Once you have separated out what is what, yes.
[14:58:34] <paul_c> For example, does knowing what the Nth double in the tc stack help debugging ?
[14:58:41] <rayh> How does a person download an anon cvs from MS xp
[14:58:56] <SWPadnos> use turtleCVS - it's very nice.
[14:58:56] <paul_c> or would it be better to know how full the stack is ?
[14:59:14] <paul_c> rayh: Install BDI over the top of M$
[14:59:19] <SWPadnos> any information helps debugging - it's a question of how much :)
[15:00:09] <paul_c> If you're really keen on debug info, use the printk ring buffer.
[15:00:12] <rayh> Turtle is it.
[15:00:37] <SWPadnos> yep
[15:03:21] <paul_c> Hell... If you really wanted to, map each and every variable to a hal pin and use halscope or halmeter to monitor them.
[15:03:59] <SWPadnos> well - that is one option, but it sure adds a lot of code to the modules ;)
[15:05:06] <paul_c> Not if jmk made pin/signal registration a library function instead of inflicting it on every module
[15:05:22] <SWPadnos> I know
[15:05:59] <SWPadnos> the trouble that neither of us have been able to get around is type checking in a struct that could represent a HAL pin of any valid type
[15:06:12] <SWPadnos> type checking at compile time, that is
[15:07:15] <paul_c> so treat everything as a single data type.
[15:07:37] <SWPadnos> but then there's no type checking at compile time ;)
[15:08:35] <SWPadnos> there is already a function to create a pin of any type, but it's not as safe to use because everything has to be cast to oid*
[15:08:38] <SWPadnos> void*
[15:11:06] <paul_c> Two data types - Floats & ints. avoids all that lark with hal_type_'riggin_foo_t
[15:12:11] <SWPadnos> well - how about hal_type_'riggin_foo (I know how you hate _t )
[15:16:39] <paul_c> struct_t is only part of a larger issue with the code.
[15:17:38] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:43:04] <rayh> Hi matt.
[15:43:15] <mshaver> hiya ray!
[15:43:31] <SWPadnos> Da Matt!
[15:43:49] <rayh> Got the package, thanks Matt.
[15:43:53] <mshaver> I got up early for this, took care of some stuff, then fell asleep...
[15:43:59] <robin_sz> oh pooh ... one of the servers inthe rack seems to have gone off :(
[15:44:30] <mshaver> good! I'll bring your tools to roland's place
[15:44:52] <rayh> Whenagettingthere?
[15:45:21] <mshaver> as soon as i can get steve there
[15:45:49] <mshaver> i want to be there mon morning, but steve says we leave mon note
[15:45:53] <rayh> Oh. I thought he had decided to fly on thursday for the second weekend
[15:45:54] <mshaver> nite
[15:46:09] <mshaver> if so, i'll get there with you
[15:47:43] <rayh> I plan of Friday night.
[15:48:33] <mshaver> i'll tak to steve & see what he wants to do
[15:49:09] <mshaver> did i miss the main discussion today? kinda quiet
[15:49:57] <rayh> There was a bit of talk about tc/tp and debug structs.
[15:50:39] <rayh> Not much about my tasker.
[15:50:42] <mshaver> oh
[15:50:55] <mshaver> * mshaver is getting coffee brb
[15:56:23] <robin_sz> hmmm .. I wonder if there is any *really* good job shop software .. you kow, order tracking, attach drawing files, schedule it for cutting, produce production plans, print delivery notes
[15:57:09] <rayh> I know a shop that installed "jobshop" and they had to add a guy to manage it.
[15:57:15] <robin_sz> hah
[15:57:25] <SWPadnos> yes, but it costs $3 million or so :)
[15:57:52] <robin_sz> no one pays that much anymore
[15:58:06] <robin_sz> Sugar CRM gets close ...
[15:58:17] <robin_sz> and its free
[15:58:30] <robin_sz> but not quite close enough
[16:00:54] <SWPadnos> do you need full ERP?
[16:01:25] <mshaver> * mshaver is back
[16:01:29] <robin_sz> mmmm. probably not
[16:02:02] <robin_sz> thats the full materials ordering, machine useag planning etc etc?
[16:02:05] <robin_sz> nah.
[16:02:25] <SWPadnos> yes - "Enterprise Resource Planning"
[16:02:52] <SWPadnos> people, machines, power requirements, conference rooms - everything
[16:02:59] <SWPadnos> Hiya John
[16:03:01] <robin_sz> ick .. no
[16:03:05] <robin_sz> 1 laser ..
[16:03:06] <jmkasunich> Hi steve
[16:03:35] <SWPadnos> you may just want to use something like a project manager
[16:03:41] <rayh> Hi John.
[16:03:56] <jmkasunich> morning ray
[16:04:10] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: i can probably use SugarCRM, and assign each job as a case, but its not perfect ...
[16:05:19] <SWPadnos> ugh - that looks like it's a replacement for the venerable Telemagic...
[16:05:39] <SWPadnos> ie, useless for getting actual work done, but great for contact management
[16:06:40] <SWPadnos> look here: http://www.compiere.org/
[16:06:42] <robin_sz> yeah, its great for telesales
[16:06:47] <SWPadnos> don't know if it applies
[16:06:48] <robin_sz> Compiere I already rejected
[16:06:52] <SWPadnos> OK
[16:07:03] <robin_sz> far too complex
[16:07:08] <robin_sz> XRMS was rejected too
[16:07:22] <robin_sz> that probably can do exactly what I need
[16:07:29] <robin_sz> but its totally undocumented
[16:07:56] <SWPadnos> ah well
[16:08:18] <SWPadnos> nummer that Paul and Alex aren't around now :(
[16:08:22] <SWPadnos> bummer
[16:08:46] <mshaver> where are they?
[16:08:49] <robin_sz> Compiere probably can do it .. but its absolutely huge, needs a J2EE compliant server etc etc .. a bit like SAP I guess
[16:08:54] <SWPadnos> elsewhere?
[16:09:37] <SWPadnos> Paul just left (<1 hour ago)
[16:09:47] <mshaver> oh
[16:09:52] <SWPadnos> Alex a bit before that
[16:11:14] <SWPadnos> anyone have any ideas about the task / IO / motion emails to the dev list?
[16:13:55] <jmkasunich> not at the moment
[16:14:01] <rayh> Generates about as much enthusiasm here as there, eh.
[16:14:17] <SWPadnos> OK
[16:14:27] <SWPadnos> anyone have experience using dlopen() and friends?
[16:14:30] <jmkasunich> been straining my brain trying to fix a problem with stepgen
[16:14:40] <SWPadnos> ah - what's that?
[16:15:12] <jmkasunich> if you send it a move that is right at it's accel/velocity limits, it generates some overshoot at the end of the move
[16:15:39] <jmkasunich> I suspect that is behind some of the following errors people have been reporting with emc2 and steppers
[16:15:43] <Jymmm> sounds like a math issue
[16:15:46] <SWPadnos> stepgen generates overshoot? that seems wrong
[16:16:06] <jmkasunich> its a nonlinear thing....
[16:16:20] <jmkasunich> if you send it a signal that is well withing its limits, it tracks it perfectly
[16:16:23] <mshaver> actually, I think you guys have some good ideas - I just need more time to digest what you've said - but I do think that you have identified an area that needs the type of improvements suggested in your postss
[16:16:45] <jmkasunich> if you send it a step, it generates a smooth move that respects the limits and doesn't overshoot
[16:17:08] <Jymmm> buffer overflow?
[16:17:12] <SWPadnos> should that type of thing be handled in a PID or limiter module?
[16:17:18] <jmkasunich> but if you send it something that it can almost track, it suffers from a kind of integrator windup effect and overshoots
[16:17:24] <SWPadnos> and stepgen just makes steps at a high RT rate
[16:17:39] <jmkasunich> well, that would be one way
[16:17:53] <jmkasunich> PID plus freqgen
[16:18:05] <jmkasunich> (freqgen takes a frequency command, needs an external position loop)
[16:18:09] <robin_sz> PID on the non RT side?
[16:18:14] <jmkasunich> but when you do that you need to tune the PID
[16:18:18] <jmkasunich> no, RT PID
[16:18:27] <SWPadnos> PID->accel limit->stepgen
[16:18:34] <SWPadnos> or just accel limit -> stepgen
[16:18:43] <jmkasunich> so I came up with stepgen, which takes a position command directly, and doesn't need a PID loop at all
[16:18:47] <SWPadnos> ah
[16:19:08] <jmkasunich> (PID tuning is a continuing gripe for stepper folks - it shouldn't be needed if you are running steppers)
[16:19:14] <robin_sz> trouble is ... users seem to have no trouble setting up v limits and accels, but alwyas seem to come unstuck with PID and steppers
[16:19:34] <jmkasunich> exactly... so stepgen uses the vel and accel limits only
[16:20:06] <jmkasunich> works great for things that are well within the limits, or that exceed them by a lot (like steps)
[16:20:21] <jmkasunich> but an input right at the limit generates an overshoot
[16:20:43] <robin_sz> weird
[16:21:00] <jmkasunich> nonlinear stuff is like that
[16:21:20] <mshaver> you mean a postion command that moves right up to the limit of an axis travel?
[16:21:36] <jmkasunich> time is discrete, position is discrete, accel and velocity limits make it non-linear....
[16:21:54] <jmkasunich> matt: no, postion limits aren't a problem
[16:22:01] <jmkasunich> just velocity and accel limits
[16:22:29] <robin_sz> speaking of which I got some following errors on the laser today
[16:22:50] <mshaver> trajectory planning problem maybe?
[16:22:56] <jmkasunich> what EMC are you runnning?
[16:23:02] <robin_sz> turned out some bit of it was smacking into another bit ... solved with a large hammer :)
[16:23:11] <jmkasunich> ah
[16:23:25] <jmkasunich> matt: nope... (at least I don't see it that way)
[16:23:46] <jmkasunich> the stepgen vel and accel limits are coming from the ini file, so they are the same as the traj planner's limits
[16:24:06] <jmkasunich> that means that rapids generate moves from the TP that are right at the limit
[16:24:21] <jmkasunich> which is exactly where the stepgen hasproblems
[16:24:23] <robin_sz> uummm, question
[16:24:25] <mshaver> weyland did report that his machine was much smoother with emc2 than emc1
[16:24:46] <robin_sz> if the tp already applies limits .. why does stepgen apply them again?
[16:24:51] <anonimasu> well that'�s true
[16:25:00] <anonimasu> emc2 is great!
[16:25:01] <anonimasu> :)
[16:25:07] <jmkasunich> yeah. I'd like to think that emc2 has something to do with it, but in reality I think he just had poorly tuned PID
[16:25:23] <robin_sz> surely if the TP is doing its thing, everyting going towards stepgen should be "right" anyway??
[16:26:02] <jmkasunich> robin: because 1) the TP may generate s limited signal, but then you add backlash comp and possibly other things to it, and 2) stepgen is a generic module, and I insist that it be able to work standalone
[16:26:41] <rayh> How much overshoot are we talking here?
[16:26:53] <jmkasunich> varys with the config, scaling, etc
[16:27:06] <jmkasunich> a few thou mostly
[16:27:20] <rayh> With how many steps per thou?
[16:27:33] <jmkasunich> enough to sometimes generate a following error when FERROR=0.020 and MIN_FERROR=0.005
[16:27:44] <jmkasunich> several thousand steps/inch
[16:27:59] <jmkasunich> it also depends on the move
[16:28:15] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: sounds like your PID + freqgen notion fits that ideal better, then with a proper TP that didn;t exceed its own limits, you could unplug the limiter from stepgen if you wished
[16:28:17] <jmkasunich> the worst case seems to be a move that is just long enough that it accels, and immediately begins decelling
[16:28:28] <jmkasunich> longer or shorter moves have less overshoot
[16:28:55] <jmkasunich> robin: PID for steppers is simply evil
[16:29:13] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: I agree, but it seems inherent i9n emc
[16:29:36] <jmkasunich> better that I strain my brain for another week and get stepgen working right, than have every user strain their brain trying to tune PID for steppers
[16:29:45] <robin_sz> true
[16:29:46] <rayh> could it be rounding errors that accumulate as steps during the ramp?
[16:29:55] <jmkasunich> inherent in EMC1, not in EMC2 ;-)
[16:30:02] <robin_sz> true also
[16:30:32] <jmkasunich> ray: little more complicated than that, but the fact that position feedback is in discrete steps is certainly part of it
[16:30:36] <robin_sz> so backlash adds non-limited moves to the traj?
[16:30:55] <jmkasunich> the TP knows nothing about compensation
[16:31:01] <robin_sz> ick
[16:31:14] <jmkasunich> comp is simply a short move at max velocity upon direction reversal
[16:31:34] <jmkasunich> the TP shouldn't know about lash, IMO
[16:31:40] <robin_sz> need to go in before the TP to my mind
[16:31:46] <robin_sz> hmmm
[16:31:58] <jmkasunich> that gets ugly fast with non-trivial kins
[16:32:14] <jmkasunich> lash is in joint space, not tool space
[16:32:18] <robin_sz> true
[16:32:45] <jmkasunich> of course, TP in general gets ugly with non-trivial kins, that's why we have things like the mixed angular/linear move weirdness
[16:33:30] <robin_sz> well, not many people use non-trivial kinematics anyway
[16:33:35] <jmkasunich> part of the problem with stepgen is the different sample rates
[16:34:18] <mshaver> the only reason there was pid with steppers is because i could never figure out a way to "jumper it out" in emc1 - but john is right, there's no reason for it to apply to a stepper system
[16:34:38] <robin_sz> always made my brian hurt
[16:34:47] <mshaver> you step, therefore you move...
[16:35:23] <jmkasunich> yet something is needed there... not only to deal with signals that might exceed accel or velocity limits but also for things like steps being deferred because of direction setup and hold times and such
[16:35:29] <robin_sz> infact, I'd go as far as to say it was one of the things that put me off peresevering with emc on the bridgport
[16:35:43] <SWPadnos> I wonder if it would make more sense to do everything in "unit space", then convert to step units only at the end
[16:35:58] <jmkasunich> EMC2 does everything in unit space...
[16:36:16] <jmkasunich> the input to stepgen is in position units, and gets converted to steps inside stepgen
[16:36:30] <SWPadnos> I see pos_err in steps, not units
[16:36:34] <jmkasunich> that is a key HAL issue... HAL signals are in machine units, inches, mm, whatever
[16:36:44] <robin_sz> theres no reason for anything outside stepgen to know how many steps per unit I guess
[16:36:49] <jmkasunich> pos_err the stepgen parameter?
[16:36:50] <SWPadnos> right - it may need to be converted later in stepgen
[16:36:57] <rayh> I've maintained for years that running emc near the upper bound prevents any accumulated following error to be fed back into the pulse stream.
[16:37:12] <jmkasunich> rayh: exactly
[16:37:30] <jmkasunich> remember a couple weeks ago I asked you about traj limts vs. axis limits?
[16:37:35] <SWPadnos> I'm looking at the update_freq function
[16:37:59] <jmkasunich> my thoughts were that traj_limits should be a few % lower than the actual axis limits, so that you always have a tiny bit of headroom
[16:38:27] <jmkasunich> several of the stepgen parameters are in steps, but they are used for testing (halscope, etc) only
[16:38:39] <rayh> Yep. I think that I suggested that in the old FAQ the Henkka maintained.
[16:38:43] <jmkasunich> the actual pins that interface to the rest of the system are floats
[16:39:17] <SWPadnos> yes, but the internal PID parameters look like they're being based on steps
[16:39:31] <SWPadnos> (or PID-like parameters)
[16:40:06] <jmkasunich> yeah.. the input is converted to steps, but it is still done in floating point, so its not quantized
[16:40:11] <robin_sz> probably to allow them to use no-lfoating-point math?
[16:40:26] <robin_sz> oh
[16:40:26] <SWPadnos> it uses FP
[16:40:42] <robin_sz> weird, so no speed advantage there then
[16:40:44] <jmkasunich> update_freq runs once per servo period, and uses FP to calculate the proper output frequency for the next servo period
[16:41:06] <jmkasunich> make_pulses runs in the high speed thread, it actually generates the pulses and is all integer
[16:41:10] <SWPadnos> it lloks like that's wher ethe problem would be (plus there's a FIXME there :) )
[16:42:21] <jmkasunich> the FIXME doesn't matter in this case... the default accel limit (which is too high) is being over-ridden by the limit from the ini file
[16:43:01] <SWPadnos> the accel is calculated in step space, then converted back to unit space (sort of)
[16:43:22] <SWPadnos> I suspect that the speed of execution would go up if the step conversion were held until the end of the function
[16:43:49] <jmkasunich> perhaps... but right now I'm more worried about correctness
[16:44:05] <jmkasunich> besides, accel isn't converted back to units
[16:44:17] <jmkasunich> accel is in steps/sec^2
[16:44:17] <SWPadnos> yes - correctness may be easier to check if there are no unit issues during the calculations
[16:44:31] <jmkasunich> used to generate freq, in steps/sec
[16:44:50] <jmkasunich> and freq is used to generate addval (an integer)
[16:45:17] <jmkasunich> addval is added to an accumulator in the make_pulses(), every time the accum overflows or underflows we generate a step
[16:45:44] <jmkasunich> correction... freq is used to generate newaddval
[16:46:02] <jmkasunich> the high speed thread ramps the old value of addval to newaddval at the max accel rate
[16:46:23] <jmkasunich> IOW, it even does ramping within a single servo period, it doesn't step from one frequency to the next every servo period
[16:47:34] <mshaver> dds
[16:47:40] <jmkasunich> exactly
[16:47:47] <SWPadnos> right - it's doing an integger derivative per period, and a bresenham error calc for the pulses
[16:49:19] <jmkasunich> I prefer to think of it as direct digital synthesis rather than bresenham, but the two are somewhat related
[16:49:35] <SWPadnos> heh - OK.
[16:50:02] <SWPadnos> it's identical to a Bresenham line, where time is the X axis and rate is Y
[16:50:09] <jmkasunich> true DDS would be if the high order bits of the accumulator went to a sine lookup table
[16:50:29] <jmkasunich> instead of simply looking at the highest bit and generating steps
[16:50:37] <SWPadnos> actually, steps/time is the Y axis
[16:50:52] <SWPadnos> but anyway
[16:51:04] <jmkasunich> X is time, Y is position
[16:51:23] <jmkasunich> anyway ;-)
[16:51:26] <SWPadnos> sure, since position is directly related to steps output
[16:51:55] <jmkasunich> the pisser (and one of the complications) is that you can't just use the accum directly
[16:52:08] <jmkasunich> because you could have direction reversals too close together
[16:52:31] <jmkasunich> assume a small positive velocity (only a few hz step rate)
[16:52:42] <SWPadnos> reversals that want to violate dir hold time?
[16:52:51] <jmkasunich> the accum slowly increases, and finally overflows just at the end of a servo period
[16:53:07] <jmkasunich> on the next servo period, we command a small negative velocity
[16:53:38] <jmkasunich> the accum just overflowed, so it has a small number in it, and the small negative vel can immediately cause an underflow and a step in the opposite direction
[16:53:47] <SWPadnos> right - you get an immediate pulse in the other direction
[16:54:06] <jmkasunich> yep
[16:54:20] <jmkasunich> so instead, there is code that enforces direction hold and setup times
[16:54:28] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/trajectory.h: Some more fun with Doxygen & LaTeX.
[16:55:39] <jmkasunich> the bad news is that because of the setup and hold times, not every overflow/underflow immediately generates a step, so the accum is no longer usable for position feedback, you need to actually count the generated steps (in rawcount)
[16:57:20] <jmkasunich> what I would have preferred to do is make the accumulator 64 bits
[16:57:36] <jmkasunich> and use the whole thing directly for position feedback
[16:57:53] <jmkasunich> high 32 bits counts steps, low 32 bits counts fractional steps
[16:58:27] <jmkasunich> avoids quantization error on the feedback, and simplifies the "PID" loop
[16:58:42] <SWPadnos> you already have that, since the current accumulator is the fraction
[16:59:33] <jmkasunich> sort of... accum is fraction, rawcounts is integer part, but I can't combine them into a double value safely
[17:00:15] <jmkasunich> both because of atomicity issues, and because rawcounts isn't always inc/dec'ed on every overflow of accum.
[17:04:56] <jmkasunich> it's depressing how much step/dir uglifies the code.... all the other stepping types are so much cleaner
[17:07:40] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : Did you see what Mariss is pondering?
[17:07:53] <jmkasunich> you mean the "unstallable stepper"?
[17:08:08] <jmkasunich> or the one wire signal scheme?
[17:08:14] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: yeah
[17:08:24] <Jymmm> one-wire
[17:08:33] <jmkasunich> yeah... I don't like it
[17:08:50] <jmkasunich> not good at all for software generated signals
[17:08:57] <Jymmm> I like it, except for the noise potential
[17:09:42] <jmkasunich> good luck meeting the 2us/4uS criteria - you'll wind up busywaiting
[17:09:55] <Jymmm> ok, that too =)
[17:10:31] <jmkasunich> it works if you are running a dedicated micro, but not on a PC
[17:10:56] <jmkasunich> I'd rather see either quadrature or up/down signals
[17:11:06] <Jymmm> Well, since he actually does have a controller board now, that's probably why.
[17:11:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm just got done installing 6 fans into my driver case =)
[17:14:06] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I'm not familure enough with methods other than STEP/DIR to even make a smartass comment.
[17:14:31] <paul_c> Good grief Charlie Brown..... Matt is here !
[17:14:47] <jmkasunich> amazing isn't it
[17:15:00] <mshaver> hmpf...
[17:15:24] <jmkasunich> ohhh, and not even lurking or away from the screen ;-)
[17:15:30] <les> hi all
[17:15:38] <Jymmm> Hola Les
[17:15:58] <fenn> * fenn lurks
[17:16:05] <les> just looking at this Kmotion trajectory planner
[17:16:12] <paul_c> les: You have LaTeX installed ?
[17:16:29] <les> huh?
[17:16:33] <les> guess not
[17:16:57] <les> but
[17:17:04] <paul_c> Ho Hum... Guess the latest round of commits won't be readable for you then.
[17:17:18] <Jymmm> les : http://www.deviantlatex.com/
[17:17:24] <les> well I can browse cvs
[17:17:57] <paul_c> * paul_c takes Jymmm to one side for a quiet slapping. ;)
[17:18:33] <les> haha
[17:18:44] <Jymmm> paul_c : Hey, it's good stuff! Make for some interesting / creative photography.
[17:18:44] <paul_c> maybe a little duffing up too.
[17:20:33] <les> So on this card the emc interpreter and the trajectory planner send up to a 40,000 segment motion queue to the dsp via USB 2.0
[17:27:38] <les> paul, I am looking on cvs but don't see anythin new that you are doing
[17:28:03] <SWPadnos> you have to use your login - the anonymous server is delayed
[17:28:16] <les> oh ok
[17:28:55] <les> hmm this Kmotion planner looks like segmentqueue junior
[17:33:22] <SWPadnos> Les and Paul (and anyone else interested in motion smoothing) - have you seen the papers at http://www.cs.wisc.edu/~deboor/usreadme.html ?
[17:35:08] <les> looking
[17:35:18] <Jymmm> paul_c (btw, the soda can worked out good for shim stock - thanks!)
[17:35:40] <SWPadnos> cool. the smooth and splerr papers seemed interesting (until I got past the word "Introduction" :) )
[17:36:12] <paul_c> SWPadnos: Smoothing & blending isn't the real problem.
[17:36:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[17:37:55] <paul_c> cubic & quintic blending is more than good enough for machine tools
[17:38:02] <SWPadnos> I thought that smoothing the jerk was one problem, and getting a reasonable curve from discrete segments were the problems
[17:38:59] <paul_c> "reasonable curve" is part of trajectory planning - i.e. look ahead.
[17:39:50] <SWPadnos> yes - and getting the max accel and vel for following a path
[17:42:15] <paul_c> much of the time, you don't want to be applying max accel
[17:42:49] <les> right
[17:43:15] <les> most of the time accel is very small with a smooth curve
[17:43:30] <jmkasunich> if the programmed path has sharp corners, then I expect you will want to use max accel to go around them with minimum rounding
[17:43:34] <paul_c> constantly applying max accel means unbounded jerk
[17:44:04] <les> V^2/r where r is the local radius of curvature
[17:44:04] <fenn> here we go again
[17:44:49] <jmkasunich> les: exactly... it the path is truly smooth (meaning you use arcs at every intersection of non-parallel lines) then you will have moderate accel
[17:44:55] <robin_sz> hmmm ...
[17:45:05] <jmkasunich> but any intersection of non-parallel lines means zero radius and infinite accel
[17:45:23] <les> yes
[17:45:28] <robin_sz> surely "constantly applying max accel" would be no jerk at all?
[17:45:38] <robin_sz> *suddenly* applying ...
[17:45:47] <jmkasunich> inexact path mode, you have no choice but to stop and start again in the new direction, probably at max accel
[17:46:11] <fenn> robin_sz think about changing direction
[17:46:13] <jmkasunich> in contour mode, you accept that the corners will be rounded, but you want to minimize the rounding, so again, max_accel
[17:46:21] <robin_sz> but you dont have to apply max accel from the start ...
[17:46:36] <SWPadnos> I was referring to a calculation to determine the max accel needed to follow a curve at the programmed speed
[17:46:57] <SWPadnos> so that the feedrate could be reduced if this exceeds the machine capabilities
[17:47:08] <jmkasunich> that where you use les's V^2/r formula
[17:47:18] <robin_sz> well v^^2/r , what les said
[17:47:20] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[17:47:22] <paul_c> Having bounded jerk would of course require another param in the ini file.
[17:47:33] <alex_joni> greetings
[17:47:41] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[17:47:46] <alex_joni> hey John
[17:47:52] <robin_sz> I think jerk limiting is pretty much "expected" these days
[17:48:07] <SWPadnos> it's a little different when the path is a cubic or quintic - you have to calculate a tangent line or equivalent to find the velocities and accels
[17:48:10] <jmkasunich> paul: another param in the ini is the least of the issues with jerk limiting :-(
[17:48:22] <les> well to me bounded jerk=quintic
[17:48:41] <SWPadnos> yep - possibly quartic, but quintic should definitely handle that
[17:48:47] <alex_joni> as in limited jerk, not zero jerk
[17:48:54] <SWPadnos> (that almost sounded like I know what I'm talking about :) )
[17:48:55] <paul_c> There are other algorithms that limit jerk.
[17:49:00] <robin_sz> you can never have zero jerk
[17:49:02] <jmkasunich> zero jerk is impossible
[17:49:07] <robin_sz> not if you want to move at all
[17:49:10] <alex_joni> right
[17:49:10] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[17:49:18] <SWPadnos> that's fallout from the fact that this deals in discrete time
[17:49:28] <SWPadnos> s/deals/operates/
[17:49:32] <les> quartic and all even polynomials have asymetric blending problems
[17:49:46] <SWPadnos> ah - OK
[17:49:54] <robin_sz> les: sytax error, too many big words in one sentence
[17:50:00] <les> that's why quintic is the lowest order with bounded jerk
[17:50:07] <jmkasunich> discrete time also means we never have "infinite" jerk as well
[17:50:11] <alex_joni> and they tend to get instable (so do polynoms higher than 5th order)
[17:50:13] <SWPadnos> robin_sz: they don't always work good.
[17:50:25] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: ah right ;)
[17:51:06] <robin_sz> jerk limiting is the key to modoern high speed machining imho
[17:51:17] <les> yes
[17:51:23] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich: I'd look at it the other way - discrete time means that we always have jerk - it's only bounded by the range of the variable used for acceleration
[17:51:33] <SWPadnos> (data type, that is)
[17:51:34] <robin_sz> at bridgeport speeds, you can get away without it ...
[17:51:53] <robin_sz> but on somehting big and nimble ...
[17:51:55] <mshaver> alex_joni: I'll dig up a card & send it to your cousin tomorrow
[17:52:25] <robin_sz> les: you going to fire up that controlelr card 2mrw?
[17:52:54] <les> I have to get some motors
[17:52:58] <alex_joni> mshaver: thx
[17:53:05] <les> small ones will do
[17:53:06] <robin_sz> I presume it hasn't got the capapbility to work with external drives?
[17:53:22] <les> I am looking at the software now
[17:53:48] <les> Yeah I think it can
[17:53:57] <robin_sz> ooh, :)
[17:54:11] <les> but it is not a cnc controller out of the box
[17:54:26] <alex_joni> * alex_joni reads the logs
[17:54:33] <les> however it can read g code
[17:54:47] <robin_sz> but it needs some macros to make it useful?
[17:54:53] <les> but only a few
[17:55:03] <robin_sz> this was less than 1K?
[17:56:17] <robin_sz> sorry, distracting les ...
[17:56:17] <les> hang on...
[17:56:26] <robin_sz> back to jerking on emc
[17:56:29] <les> yeah 699 quan 10
[17:56:33] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[17:56:38] <les> http://www.dynomotion.com/Help/index.htm
[17:57:48] <robin_sz> ooh, it can drive steppers as well as servos ..
[17:57:51] <robin_sz> intellesting.
[17:57:58] <les> yes
[17:58:16] <robin_sz> it has how many output channels?
[17:58:28] <les> uh let me see..
[17:58:38] <robin_sz> 4 or 6?
[17:59:05] <SWPadnos> 4
[17:59:09] <robin_sz> right ..
[17:59:20] <robin_sz> so 4 DC servos or 2 steppers
[17:59:45] <les> yeah but has 8 3 amp h bridges
[17:59:46] <robin_sz> oh, 8 bridge drivers
[17:59:51] <SWPadnos> Eight Full Bridges are controlled ...
[17:59:58] <robin_sz> thats 4 steppers
[18:00:03] <robin_sz> wow
[18:00:09] <SWPadnos> meant for 4 axes
[18:00:40] <les> servo loop for all axes is 90 us
[18:00:50] <robin_sz> wow ... 600mflop DSP
[18:00:53] <les> It ain't slow
[18:01:07] <SWPadnos> that's $399 of the proce :)
[18:01:09] <SWPadnos> price
[18:01:17] <robin_sz> ISTR a cray 1 was 400 mflop
[18:01:49] <robin_sz> that puts things into perspective
[18:01:53] <SWPadnos> 1.2 GFlop, I think (though I may be thinking of the X-MP)
[18:03:58] <les> Anyway the first things I am looking at is what else is needed to turn this thing into a cnc control
[18:04:09] <les> has plenty of Dio
[18:04:09] <robin_sz> '76 cray 1 160mflop
[18:04:50] <robin_sz> yeah, but crays make nice seats afterwards :)
[18:05:03] <les> 512k flash
[18:05:12] <les> that is a problem I think
[18:05:20] <jmkasunich> back in a couple hours
[18:05:21] <robin_sz> really?
[18:05:33] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[18:05:42] <robin_sz> why would 512K be a problem
[18:05:56] <les> well that means it cannot hold many full programs
[18:06:09] <robin_sz> I doubt it will hold any
[18:06:31] <robin_sz> the flash will be for the OS on the card
[18:06:45] <les> well the emc interpreter and the TP are on a non rt host box
[18:06:56] <les> hmm
[18:06:58] <robin_sz> yep
[18:07:15] <robin_sz> I suspect that means the "programs" are on the host then
[18:07:42] <robin_sz> sorry, I distracted everyone from jerking on emc
[18:07:59] <les> noyt sure whether the 40,000 segment queue is in flash or what
[18:08:05] <robin_sz> nope
[18:08:09] <les> but it is on the dsp
[18:08:12] <robin_sz> yep
[18:08:25] <robin_sz> rememebr flash is slow, and dies if you use it
[18:08:56] <robin_sz> its dead at around 10^^6 write cycles usually
[18:09:24] <les> ok so the 16 meg SDRAM
[18:10:44] <les> nice feature that you can talk to DIO within a g-code program using special comments
[18:13:10] <les> The source code for the planner etc is on the site
[18:13:21] <les> much easier to follow than emc
[18:15:13] <les> it uses an emc.var and emc.tbl as well
[18:17:46] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[18:21:42] <robin_sz> wow .. they kept quite a bit of it then
[18:22:26] <robin_sz> and keeping the interp and task open helps integration
[18:24:37] <les> the kmotion?
[18:25:26] <les> It doesn't send position coords back to the host does it?
[18:25:40] <les> I wonder if that would slow things down
[18:39:03] <bpmw_> Good afternoon all!
[18:39:36] <ValarQ> evening :)
[18:39:53] <bpmw_> Would anyone like to take a crack at a g-code guestion?
[18:43:10] <bpmw_> I made a test program to mill some different size holes in a bloch of pvc. I went to verify the code spit out by BobCad. And I get an error message that says " all axes missing with motion code"
[18:45:04] <bpmw_> I'm just learning to code and I'm not sure what to look for!
[18:49:03] <bpmw_> alex_joni. I gave your message to Weyland and he said to "THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU".
[18:51:30] <bpmw_> No takers Eh, Ok thanks anyway. Catch you later!
[18:52:40] <bpmw_> Hey Weyland!
[18:52:59] <weyland> bpmw_: Howdy~!
[18:54:38] <bpmw_> Weyland, how are you at g-code no one wants to take a crack at my question.
[18:56:29] <weyland> I'm just a clunky pencil paper kind of guy
[18:56:34] <weyland> what's the quest?
[18:57:05] <bpmw_> [13:42] <bpmw_> I made a test program to mill some different size holes in a bloch of pvc. I went to verify the code spit out by BobCad. And I get an error message that says " all axes missing with motion code"
[18:57:51] <SWP_Away> I bet that means there are some lines with G0, G1, or G2, that have no X Y Z A B or C on them
[18:58:08] <weyland> that's exactly what I'm thinking
[18:58:11] <SWP_Away> ie, Move at this speed, but I don't know where to go...
[18:58:26] <weyland> how many lines of code is it
[18:58:27] <weyland> ?
[18:58:42] <SWP_Away> ... spit out by bobcad ... - probably large :)
[18:58:51] <bpmw_> Yaa pretty much all of them, it uses I and J
[18:59:08] <SWP_Away> there still needs to be an X,Y for a circle, I think
[18:59:15] <SWP_Away> i,j show the center point
[18:59:26] <weyland> yeah, it's gotta know where it's going to and coming from
[18:59:26] <SWP_Away> x,y is the end point to move to
[18:59:44] <bpmw_> Theres 349 lines.
[19:00:08] <SWP_Away> from is easy - it's "wherever I am" - to is easy, it's specified as X,Y, but with a circle, you have to know how to get there, and that's what I,J are for
[19:00:16] <weyland> I and J only tell the distance of the origin of the arc from the place the move originates from
[19:00:38] <bpmw_> Obviously BobCads emc postprocessor doesn't work!
[19:03:00] <bpmw_> Ok I guess I'll have to do some research, i thought it might be something simple. Thanks guys I appreciate your help!!!
[19:03:15] <weyland> no prob
[19:03:22] <bpmw_> Bye for now!
[19:18:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back
[19:18:48] <weyland> cradek: you here?
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> yo websys
[19:19:02] <alex_joni> yo weyland
[19:19:08] <weyland> hey alex~!
[19:19:13] <weyland> get me mail?
[19:19:17] <alex_joni> how's it going?
[19:19:17] <Jymmm> oh shit... http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=1&u=/nm/20050605/tc_nm/apple_intel_dc
[19:19:36] <weyland> well, thanks
[19:19:42] <alex_joni> the one from 03.06? yes
[19:20:36] <weyland> kewl
[19:21:19] <weyland> fighting python right now
[19:21:34] <Jymmm> weyland got prybar?
[19:21:37] <ValarQ> weyland: sounds fun :)
[19:22:10] <Jymmm> weyland ; 'got jaws-of-life?'
[19:22:26] <weyland> lol, no ... and I'm not a programmer and don't play one on tv
[19:22:36] <weyland> nor have I slept in a holiday inn express
[19:22:48] <weyland> trying to use one of Chris
[19:22:51] <Jymmm> weyland python == big ass snake!
[19:22:56] <weyland> trying to use one of Chris's programs
[19:23:10] <weyland> and I can't get the thingto install
[19:23:24] <alex_joni> python setup.py install ?
[19:23:24] <alex_joni> :D
[19:23:31] <alex_joni> what program?
[19:23:34] <weyland> yeah... and that's where it erros out
[19:23:42] <weyland> the image 2 gcode one
[19:23:51] <ValarQ> python is fun to code :)
[19:23:59] <alex_joni> ValarQ: not really ;)
[19:24:31] <ValarQ> alex_joni: you can't have list comprehensions in asm :P
[19:25:09] <alex_joni> how bout machine code?
[19:25:21] <weyland> what does everyone else use to convert images to code?
[19:25:25] <ValarQ> alex_joni: only fun on older cpus
[19:25:29] <ValarQ> alex_joni: like Z80
[19:25:35] <alex_joni> I just love doing those: 04 23 A2 6B 17 12 00 01
[19:27:54] <ValarQ> * ValarQ actually knows some Z80 machinecode
[19:28:11] <alex_joni> nice... I didn't really like the Z80
[19:28:39] <ValarQ> at least they were better than 8080 :/
[19:30:59] <fenn> ValarQ: this is what i was thinking for controlling loads of steppers from one parallel port: http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/pages/bus
[19:31:45] <fenn> that site is geared to non-electronics people, so it's kinda over-explanatory
[19:32:02] <ValarQ> :/
[19:32:11] <fenn> better than the other way around
[19:34:05] <alex_joni> fenn: that's a bit of overhead
[19:34:09] <alex_joni> but it's ok for IO stuff
[19:34:35] <alex_joni> why not go with an microcontroller?
[19:34:41] <alex_joni> and use command, data
[19:34:44] <fenn> i'm dumb, that's why
[19:34:52] <fenn> and cheap
[19:35:01] <alex_joni> you'll do it in SW, and you'll be able to have a lot of devices
[19:35:09] <alex_joni> a nice micro is about 2-3$
[19:35:22] <ValarQ> fenn: maybe you should buy one of my cards ;)
[19:35:27] <Jymmm> * Jymmm invites fenn to /join #CheapBastard (you'll fit right in with the rest of us)
[19:35:57] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you'll make him join ;)
[19:36:57] <alex_joni> les: still around?
[19:36:59] <Jymmm> alex_joni lol
[19:37:03] <fenn> alex_joni: how do i program the micro?
[19:37:18] <alex_joni> fenn: load shouting helps
[19:37:28] <fenn> :)
[19:37:36] <alex_joni> there are cheap programmers (about 10$ or build one of your own)
[19:37:37] <Jymmm> fenn basic stamp?
[19:37:46] <alex_joni> usually you can build one for <5$
[19:37:53] <fenn> ugh
[19:37:53] <alex_joni> parts that is
[19:38:37] <fenn> what's the refresh rate of a parallel port?
[19:38:55] <Jymmm> fenn wth?!
[19:38:59] <fenn> wait n/m we already went over this
[19:39:03] <Jymmm> fenn =)
[19:39:18] <fenn> it takes 1 usec per i/o right
[19:39:42] <Jymmm> fenn IF you decide to play with uC, be careful when using a laptop or a PC with APM enabled.
[19:41:55] <fenn> okay, so, if i have six steppers, i can output 1/.000001 steps/sec * .0005 inches/step = 166 inches per second?
[19:42:29] <Jymmm> fenn via parallel port?
[19:42:34] <fenn> via my doohicky
[19:42:50] <Jymmm> fenn you keep your doohicky in your pants young lady!
[19:43:08] <Jymmm> fenn you mean uC?
[19:43:35] <fenn> parallel port -> stepper driver bus -> motors
[19:43:48] <Jymmm> Ah, ok.
[19:44:04] <fenn> sorry that calc was wrong.. need to divide by three (two steppers per byte of output)
[19:44:18] <Jymmm> parallel port is like 112KB/s, but some uC you can toss in your own clock 24MHz =)
[19:45:15] <fenn> okay that's in the same ballpart
[19:45:24] <fenn> ballpark
[19:45:33] <Jymmm> uC can be MUCH faster
[19:46:01] <anonimasu> hello
[19:46:01] <fenn> that's 24 MB/sec?
[19:46:17] <Jymmm> I think Mb/s
[19:46:21] <fenn> what i'm saying is i dont really much faster than 112kB/sec
[19:46:41] <Jymmm> KB or Kb ?
[19:46:52] <fenn> parallel port speed is 112 kilobytes right?
[19:47:01] <Jymmm> let me check
[19:47:24] <fenn> swp was saying that it takes 1 microsecond for an i/o instruction to get out of the cpu
[19:48:10] <anonimasu> hm, you can use the multiple lines out on the parport I think..
[19:48:15] <anonimasu> to get more throughput
[19:48:15] <jacky^> evening
[19:48:23] <Jymmm> fenn well since a parallel port is on a IRQ, sure. buy a uC is like a DEDICATED cpu sorta kinda
[19:48:31] <Jymmm> s/buy/but/
[19:48:51] <Jymmm> 115.2 K bits/sec
[19:49:02] <fenn> but if EMC can keep up with the limit on i/o instructions it doesn't matter
[19:49:09] <Jymmm> sorry that was serial. 512 kbps
[19:49:14] <Jymmm> is parallel
[19:49:25] <alex_joni> fenn: right now EMC does about 50kHz stepping on the parport
[19:49:47] <Jymmm> fenn parallel port is a bottleneck for any controller
[19:49:56] <alex_joni> you'll divide that by 2 for your dohicky
[19:50:13] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[19:50:15] <alex_joni> 50kHz is pretty low
[19:50:17] <SWPadnos> someone rang?
[19:50:21] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: hey stephen
[19:50:25] <alex_joni> not me
[19:50:26] <SWPadnos> hi
[19:50:32] <robin_sz> alex_joni: its the ay it does 50Khz that is the problem
[19:50:45] <alex_joni> how so?
[19:51:02] <robin_sz> alex_joni: yeah, OK, 50khz is the max freq .. and the next, discrete, frequency below that is?
[19:51:08] <weyland> weyland is now known as weyland_away
[19:51:32] <alex_joni> well.. didn't look at the code
[19:51:40] <alex_joni> but I would assume smthg like 49.5
[19:51:41] <robin_sz> well, its 25khz
[19:51:46] <fenn> where does this number 50 khz come from?
[19:51:51] <alex_joni> 25?
[19:52:14] <alex_joni> fenn: from the time you need to do the outputs (outb)
[19:52:15] <robin_sz> so to do 49.9999 khz it has to do a bunc of 50k pulses, then one 25k one ..
[19:52:59] <alex_joni> well... it would work better if you could program the time between RT sleeps
[19:53:05] <alex_joni> but .. that's buggersome
[19:53:05] <Jymmm> 4.77MHz * 10 ?!
[19:53:15] <alex_joni> and.. you have 6 axes
[19:53:22] <SWPadnos> the 50 KHz number comes from a bunch of things - task switch time, I/O time, calculation, etc.
[19:53:28] <SWPadnos> also jitter
[19:53:55] <fenn> it's based on thread execution rate?
[19:54:02] <alex_joni> 50kHz = 20 usecs in time
[19:54:17] <SWPadnos> and as Robin said, the way it works is that a step or a pause between steps is an integer multiple of the PERIOD
[19:54:30] <SWPadnos> 50 KHz is actually pretty hard, it needs a PERIOD of 10 uS
[19:54:35] <robin_sz> this can be a problem at high speeds
[19:54:42] <SWPadnos> which needs a pretty fast CPU
[19:54:55] <robin_sz> motors dont like doing the dirty pulse trian thing
[19:55:01] <robin_sz> it saps torquw
[19:55:05] <robin_sz> torque
[19:55:09] <SWPadnos> so the minimum step duration is one period high, one period low, or 50 KHz
[19:55:14] <robin_sz> and at high speeds, there is only just enough to go around
[19:55:27] <SWPadnos> the next step is actually 33.333 KHz - one up, two down (or 3x PERIOD)
[19:55:32] <robin_sz> right
[19:55:33] <alex_joni> robin.. if you're running steppers
[19:55:47] <robin_sz> alex_joni: well, that what 90% of emc users do I think
[19:55:50] <alex_joni> if you're running geckos on DC
[19:55:56] <alex_joni> that's better
[19:56:00] <robin_sz> DC?
[19:56:01] <alex_joni> as the gecko does some PID
[19:56:01] <SWPadnos> ... you're still screwed
[19:56:06] <alex_joni> DC motors
[19:56:14] <SWPadnos> it's not optimal, but it is better
[19:56:17] <robin_sz> yeah, a little
[19:56:21] <alex_joni> and if you have one of the G340 it's even better
[19:56:22] <robin_sz> what SWPadnos said :)
[19:56:28] <robin_sz> yes, its better
[19:56:32] <robin_sz> but ...
[19:56:33] <alex_joni> as the PLL does some filtering too
[19:56:37] <SWPadnos> actually, using the pulse multiplier in the Geckos makes it better - it kind of smooths out the pulse train
[19:56:44] <robin_sz> it does
[19:56:45] <alex_joni> I agree that a HW pulser is even better
[19:56:59] <robin_sz> its not just a *bit* better ...
[19:57:04] <alex_joni> but.. who has HW pulsing ;)
[19:57:09] <alex_joni> besides the G100
[19:57:11] <alex_joni> :P
[19:57:11] <robin_sz> its an order of magnitude better
[19:57:15] <robin_sz> flashcut cnc
[19:57:16] <alex_joni> right
[19:57:28] <robin_sz> jon elsons stuff
[19:57:30] <alex_joni> how about running a STG?
[19:57:36] <robin_sz> for steppers?
[19:57:36] <alex_joni> or jon e's stuff
[19:57:39] <SWPadnos> the big thing with the G100 and the USC, and other hardware step generators (but *not* software microcontroller ones) is that the PERIOD is at 10 MHz or so
[19:57:48] <robin_sz> right
[19:57:52] <fenn> well, if i was worried about smoothness at high speeds i should be using servos anyway,right?
[19:57:55] <SWPadnos> so the resolution of a pulse is about 100x better than on a PC
[19:58:06] <alex_joni> or more
[19:58:08] <robin_sz> fenn: no, thats wrong
[19:58:10] <SWPadnos> right
[19:58:17] <SWPadnos> alex_joni: right :)
[19:58:22] <SWPadnos> fenn: wrong ;)
[19:58:32] <robin_sz> fenn: what you need to understand with steppers is the speeds you have to use them at
[19:58:56] <robin_sz> fenn: you kow there is a point at which the torque begins to drop off .. its flat, then it slopes off
[19:59:09] <robin_sz> thats the "corner frequency"
[19:59:17] <fenn> since the rotor can't keep up with what the coils are doing due to inertia, right?
[19:59:34] <robin_sz> so ... do you use them above or below that speed ??
[19:59:59] <SWPadnos> nope - you're using more and more power to get it to get out of the detents
[20:00:07] <SWPadnos> and less is transferred to the output shaft
[20:00:11] <fenn> well, that's a limitation of the motors.. nothing you can do to make it go any faster
[20:00:24] <robin_sz> nope ..
[20:00:32] <robin_sz> typically thats at about 600rpm
[20:00:33] <fenn> really?
[20:00:50] <robin_sz> they spin fine to 3000rpm
[20:01:04] <SWPadnos> they can still go faster, they just don't have much push (torque) at higher speeds
[20:02:09] <fenn> if you blast the hell out of it with current, will it generate more torque or not?
[20:02:20] <SWPadnos> no, it'll burn out a winding
[20:02:27] <SWPadnos> or catch on fire
[20:02:35] <alex_joni> heh
[20:02:38] <alex_joni> that's nice
[20:02:43] <SWPadnos> that does work for servos, until they catch fire
[20:02:53] <robin_sz> above 600rpm they produce constant power
[20:03:01] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: only for DC's
[20:03:07] <fenn> robin_sz that's what i thought
[20:03:07] <robin_sz> below 600rpm, the power slopes off to zero at standstill
[20:03:09] <alex_joni> on AC motors that won't work either
[20:03:10] <robin_sz> so ..
[20:03:27] <robin_sz> if you want to get full power out of them you must spin at least to the corner freq
[20:03:30] <robin_sz> or above
[20:03:32] <SWPadnos> right, since 3-phase synchronous AC motors are essentially 3-coil steppers :)
[20:03:33] <robin_sz> and gear down
[20:03:57] <robin_sz> a stepper is just a 200 pole, 2 phase AC motor
[20:03:59] <robin_sz> :)
[20:04:09] <SWPadnos> right - my point exactly
[20:04:19] <robin_sz> so .. you have to let em spin
[20:04:34] <fenn> that's just about the opposite of every hobby cnc machine out there
[20:04:47] <robin_sz> so, rule 2
[20:04:55] <robin_sz> the world is full of idiots
[20:05:12] <alex_joni> that's a nice rule
[20:05:16] <SWPadnos> and they keep getting better at it :)
[20:05:20] <robin_sz> indeed.
[20:05:44] <fenn> well, either way works... get bigger motors or get better drivers
[20:06:09] <alex_joni> design the machine better
[20:06:14] <fenn> there's a limit for either strategy
[20:06:23] <robin_sz> fenn: talk to Mariss if you like, but this has been doen over and over so many times .. they need to spin, most hobby machines get about 10% of the availableperformance because the people building them wont listen to good advice
[20:06:46] <robin_sz> in know it sounds wrong
[20:06:51] <robin_sz> but whne you do the maths ..
[20:06:55] <robin_sz> its right
[20:07:02] <SWPadnos> in any case, the question was originally about step rates (and then smoothness of the pulse stream)...
[20:07:08] <robin_sz> right
[20:07:10] <robin_sz> and ..
[20:07:15] <robin_sz> thats the problem
[20:07:27] <robin_sz> emc can struggle a bit generating the rates needed
[20:07:36] <SWPadnos> or hardware can do it with ease
[20:07:40] <robin_sz> yep
[20:07:57] <alex_joni> that's why people who want smthg for their money go with servos
[20:08:01] <alex_joni> and feedback
[20:08:06] <SWPadnos> which also reduces the PERIOD requirement, since emc only processes rate updates, not pulses
[20:08:11] <alex_joni> I wouldn't bet my life on steppers
[20:08:13] <robin_sz> alex_joni: no, worng
[20:08:27] <robin_sz> in some circumstances steppers do a better job
[20:08:27] <SWPadnos> right for now - wait for Mariss to finish...
[20:08:33] <alex_joni> well.. I won't trust a stepper to be in the precise position
[20:08:38] <SWPadnos> low speed / high torque is better with steppers
[20:08:43] <robin_sz> well, what about a stepper with an encoder?
[20:08:44] <alex_joni> right
[20:08:46] <fenn> so you're saying output velocity commands to a microcontroller, and get feedback from the micro about position? (no encoder situation)
[20:08:55] <SWPadnos> they are generally accurate to within 5-10% of a step position
[20:08:58] <alex_joni> but if you need high speed, good torque
[20:08:59] <alex_joni> you'll go AC
[20:09:03] <robin_sz> sure
[20:09:04] <SWPadnos> (full step, not microstep)
[20:09:13] <robin_sz> oops, teatime
[20:09:14] <SWPadnos> if you have $3500 per axis
[20:09:20] <weyland_away> weyland_away is now known as weyland
[20:10:13] <weyland> hey, does emc2 have a way of supporting steppers with encoders, other than the Mauch board, right now?
[20:10:15] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: might be a bit more
[20:10:25] <SWPadnos> eBay :)
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> weyland: what board do you need for feedback?
[20:10:39] <weyland> ?
[20:10:51] <alex_joni> I built a simple encoder readout board (and it has an hal driver ;)
[20:10:54] <weyland> I have a Mauch board, but don't have a ISA slot anymore
[20:10:57] <alex_joni> it's smthg like the DRO
[20:11:06] <alex_joni> well.. PCI is a pita
[20:11:09] <weyland> Arrooo?
[20:11:29] <alex_joni> Arrooo?
[20:11:38] <ValarQ> you really don't want to see my ISA card ;)
[20:11:57] <weyland> is there a way to do this?
[20:12:06] <alex_joni> to do what?
[20:12:11] <alex_joni> steppers & feedback?
[20:12:23] <weyland> use encoder feedback in emc2, without an ISA slot?
[20:12:26] <fenn> buy a stg board, run the feedback through it :)
[20:12:31] <alex_joni> right
[20:12:41] <alex_joni> but.. stg driver is not done
[20:12:49] <weyland> <sigh>
[20:12:49] <alex_joni> although the encoder part might be useable
[20:12:56] <fenn> well that was a dumb idea anyway
[20:13:11] <alex_joni> I wrote that, and never got to test it.. as I don't have a board yet
[20:13:15] <alex_joni> will get one soon
[20:14:23] <alex_joni> weyland: anyways.. what do you need encoder feedback for?
[20:14:35] <alex_joni> worried it's not precise enough?
[20:14:37] <jmk_away> jmk_away is now known as jmkasunich
[20:14:45] <alex_joni> hey John
[20:14:46] <alex_joni> wb
[20:14:50] <jmkasunich> hi
[20:15:07] <jmkasunich> was reading back, and I have the same question.. why do you want encoders on steppers?
[20:15:19] <alex_joni> to check for missing steps ;)
[20:15:26] <alex_joni> in critical apps
[20:15:31] <alex_joni> and do homing
[20:15:47] <alex_joni> based on zero pulse
[20:15:54] <jmkasunich> prob is once you miss a step, what is the code gonna do? try to make up for the missing step by going faster, right? which will just make things worse
[20:16:39] <jmkasunich> Mariss's unstallable stepper idea is something more sophisticated than that, but it requires dedicated hardware
[20:17:04] <alex_joni> didn't read on that
[20:17:11] <fenn> link?
[20:17:17] <Imperator_> fenn: let a stepper be a stepper, don't try to make a servo out of it
[20:17:53] <fenn> Imperator_: huh? i'm not the one trying to add an encoder to a stepper
[20:17:58] <weyland> alex_joni: jusat thought it was a good idea to avoid lost steps
[20:17:58] <Imperator_> stepper -> cheap because it don't have feedback
[20:18:14] <Imperator_> ah, ok sorry
[20:18:28] <SWPadnos> the idea is to slow down the feed rate (on all axes) to keep within the power curve of the motor
[20:18:35] <SWPadnos> you normally can't tell if you've exceeded the curve, because there's no feedback
[20:19:02] <SWPadnos> stepper with feedback is still less expensive than servo (arguably), and has no brushes to replace.
[20:19:11] <SWPadnos> and it's guaranteed to be less than AC servo :)
[20:19:17] <SWPadnos> or BLDC
[20:19:26] <jmkasunich> Mariss is basically treating a stepper as a 100 pole synchronous AC motor and building a vector drive to run it
[20:19:27] <Imperator_> weyland : take a bigger stepper
[20:19:35] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich: exactly
[20:19:47] <SWPadnos> cool idea - could be good for hobby level and light industrial machines
[20:19:56] <weyland> Imperator_:tried that the first time around, and it failed miserably
[20:20:08] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich: how long do you expect to be around?
[20:20:12] <weyland> had some nema42's that SUCKED
[20:20:26] <jmkasunich> on and off the rest of the day (dinner and such)
[20:20:39] <weyland> then agian, that was the first attempt at cnc and with emc1 a few years back
[20:20:46] <SWPadnos> OK - I'm about to drive people around for a bit, but I may have HAL questions later in the day
[20:21:03] <weyland> I may try and use them again on the lathe
[20:21:29] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: care to tell me in a few words what's needed on the hal refactor?
[20:21:39] <jmkasunich> lol
[20:21:47] <jmkasunich> more than fits in a few words
[20:21:55] <SWPadnos> by the way, what do people think of this lathe: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7519302812
[20:22:00] <Phydbleep> weyland: Blast.. And I was going to say that you should send me those evil Nema-23's. :)
[20:22:16] <weyland> lol
[20:22:19] <weyland> have some, too
[20:22:32] <SWPadnos> (sorry to interrupt - weyland reminded me of lathes)
[20:22:33] <jmkasunich> SWL: not good for CNC'ing ;-)
[20:22:52] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: well.. then in as many words you can afford
[20:22:59] <weyland> I've been wathcing that lathe...
[20:23:02] <SWPadnos> Ray said the same thing - what tells you that?
[20:23:06] <weyland> I know that model
[20:23:12] <weyland> GODD lathe
[20:23:27] <SWPadnos> good god lathe, my wife would say
[20:23:28] <jmkasunich> manual lathes with half nuts and such don't lend them selves to CNC
[20:23:40] <jmkasunich> I have a southbend 13"
[20:23:44] <SWPadnos> ah - half nut on the X drive screw...
[20:23:51] <jmkasunich> yeah
[20:23:58] <weyland> jmkasunich: but could be converted rather easily
[20:24:06] <SWPadnos> OK - I'd replace it with a ballscrew anyway
[20:24:37] <jmkasunich> motorizing an old style lathe can be done, but why?
[20:24:37] <weyland> that's what I'm gonna do with the one I just bought
[20:24:39] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep recognizes that lathe..
[20:24:51] <weyland> it has a half nut
[20:25:05] <Phydbleep> I had that hernia's little brother here till my shop started sinking into the yard. :)
[20:25:29] <jmkasunich> youre gonna scrap the original leadscrew, threading gearbox, and all the guts of the apron
[20:25:29] <weyland> I stil have it's little brother
[20:25:41] <weyland> Heve a 10Heavy
[20:25:51] <jmkasunich> heavy 10's are nice
[20:25:56] <weyland> jmkasunich: almost, but not quite
[20:25:57] <jmkasunich> not too big, not too small
[20:26:16] <weyland> jmkasunich: goona leave the geabox, just take out the driving gear
[20:26:16] <Phydbleep> You'd be better off milling a new saddle and keeping the original parts just in case.
[20:26:39] <jmkasunich> IOW, the only thing from the original lathe you are using is the bed, headstock, and tailstock
[20:26:54] <SWPadnos> be back soon
[20:26:54] <jmkasunich> and the spindle bearings on that lathe are plain bearings (bronze or babbit)
[20:27:00] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[20:27:04] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: Bronze
[20:27:17] <weyland> Yep, VERY familiar with SB bearings
[20:27:42] <jmkasunich> that's a decent manual lathe, I wouldn't want to try to CNC it
[20:28:39] <jmkasunich> 1.5" hole thru spindle...
[20:28:49] <Phydbleep> weyland: Add the leadscrew handwheel mount on the tail end of the bed and drive it from there.
[20:28:50] <jmkasunich> wonder what collets it uses?
[20:29:03] <weyland> 5C
[20:29:13] <weyland> Phydbleep:??
[20:29:24] <weyland> what d'ya mean
[20:29:25] <weyland> ?
[20:29:39] <jmkasunich> drive the tailstock end of the leadscrew with a stepper for CNC
[20:29:47] <Phydbleep> weyland: http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford/img11.gif
[20:30:14] <weyland> Ah. But why?
[20:30:34] <weyland> I'm just gonna drive it with the stepper. Why have a handwheel?
[20:30:40] <jmkasunich> so you don't have to muck around with the QC box at the other end
[20:30:57] <Phydbleep> weyland: Because then you can put the treading box in neutral and direct drive the leadscrew
[20:30:58] <weyland> I'm not understanding you
[20:31:07] <Phydbleep> threading
[20:31:14] <jmkasunich> I think he means ti use a pulley or gear instead of the handwheel
[20:31:38] <weyland> oh. okay, thatz the plan
[20:31:49] <weyland> but I'm gonna disconnect the box anyway
[20:31:54] <weyland> less drag
[20:31:58] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: I'm actually going to add both to this Logan.. Handwheel for manual ops and stepper for cnc.
[20:31:59] <weyland> and less to go wrong
[20:32:04] <weyland> don't need it
[20:32:12] <jmkasunich> gutting the apron too?
[20:32:17] <weyland> if I need to thread by hand, I have my southy
[20:32:23] <weyland> probably
[20:32:30] <weyland> get rid of the weight
[20:32:52] <jmkasunich> and provide a place to mount the cross-slide motor
[20:32:53] <robin_sz> * robin_sz agrees with jmkasunich
[20:33:03] <robin_sz> stripping a myford is probably a bad plan
[20:33:14] <jmkasunich> we're not talking about myfords
[20:33:21] <weyland> thinking to put a ballscrew in place of the acme, and mount nuts on the apron
[20:33:28] <jmkasunich> we're talking about WW2 vintage 14" southbends
[20:33:41] <weyland> well, I'm talking of the 9x20 I just bought
[20:33:56] <weyland> same thing,though
[20:33:57] <jmkasunich> oh, chinese 9x20? or older american?
[20:34:14] <weyland> non american, unfortunately
[20:34:21] <weyland> couldn't pass it up though
[20:34:23] <weyland> stole it
[20:34:30] <weyland> brand new, in the crate
[20:34:42] <weyland> lees than most 7x10's
[20:34:43] <jmkasunich> I have less qualms about converting a newer chinese lathe than I do about converting an older quality brand
[20:34:43] <Phydbleep> weyland: DAMN!
[20:35:03] <weyland> Very true. which is why I didn't hesitate
[20:35:13] <weyland> Phydbleep: what?
[20:35:29] <robin_sz> a ww2 southbend, new in a crate?
[20:35:29] <Phydbleep> weyland: 9x20 for <$400. :)
[20:35:42] <jmkasunich> robin: sorry, thread mixing
[20:35:56] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: No.. Not a SB.
[20:35:56] <jmkasunich> SWP is looking at the WW2 SB 14"
[20:35:56] <weyland> Phydbleep: yeah, $375
[20:36:13] <jmkasunich> wayland already has a 9x20 eastern import
[20:36:20] <jmkasunich> both folks are thinking of CNC conversions
[20:36:34] <robin_sz> oh,
[20:36:39] <weyland> I'll have it Wednesday night
[20:36:44] <jmkasunich> the SB is on ebay, $355 with 5 hours to go
[20:36:44] <robin_sz> the eastern import, yeah strip it ..
[20:36:56] <robin_sz> the SB would be a poor choice I feel
[20:37:10] <weyland> I'm playing with mounting it like a slant bed...
[20:37:16] <robin_sz> yeah?
[20:37:31] <robin_sz> couple of big linear ways?
[20:37:58] <weyland> nah. pretty small, actually, but I'm thinking that if I build the table right...
[20:38:07] <jmkasunich> just don
[20:38:10] <jmkasunich> oops
[20:38:39] <jmkasunich> don't tilt it so much that the V-ways aren't pointing up anymore
[20:38:56] <robin_sz> you can probably pick up a hradinge auto for similar money and cnc it easier
[20:39:01] <robin_sz> or an old mazak
[20:39:05] <jmkasunich> once the high side of the V gets flat, the saddle falls off
[20:39:09] <weyland> oooohhhh, that completely passed my thinking - good point
[20:39:20] <robin_sz> hey, heres a thing ...
[20:39:30] <robin_sz> looks liek we picked up a nice contract for the laser
[20:39:30] <weyland> no, I've been looking for an old hardinge, prices aer ridiculous
[20:39:31] <Imperator_> different question: did anybody know how noisy are this DC-DC Converters ?? Want to place a 3W 5V to +-15V Converter about 10mm next to the reference voltage source for my 16bit DAC
[20:39:59] <robin_sz> weyland: for the HLVs yes, for the hydraulic servo copy / auto lathes? no cheap.
[20:40:10] <robin_sz> anyway
[20:40:26] <robin_sz> theres a company in the town that makes all the chip managment systems for
[20:40:31] <jmkasunich> weyland - I've seen hardinge second op lathes go pretty cheap
[20:40:37] <robin_sz> mazak, mori-seiki, matsuuro etc
[20:40:58] <robin_sz> apparently they ship the mills from the far east
[20:41:11] <robin_sz> but the chip collection anc ocnveyors are made in the destination country
[20:41:25] <robin_sz> anyway ... theres a shit load of laser cut plate on em
[20:41:30] <weyland> I wish...
[20:41:36] <robin_sz> and it looks like we got the work :)
[20:41:47] <weyland> justcan't fin'm down here, or even close enough to be worth it
[20:41:55] <alex_joni> Imperator: use different layers on the PCB
[20:41:57] <weyland> and this 9x20 came along at a good price
[20:42:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:42:22] <robin_sz> well, if its new far east crap, feel free to cut it up with a clear conscience :)
[20:42:22] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=03-747-006
[20:42:28] <weyland> a hardinge would be GREAT though, cuz the spindle hole is nicely large
[20:42:38] <weyland> that's why I was looking for one
[20:42:47] <weyland> that and the dovetail make them great
[20:42:58] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=20-175-039
[20:43:14] <robin_sz> oh .. tiny hardinge :)
[20:43:21] <jmkasunich> no leadscrew on that one
[20:43:49] <CIA-8> 03paul_c * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/trajectory.h:
[20:43:49] <CIA-8> Further experiments with Doxygen and embedded LaTex commands.
[20:43:49] <CIA-8> Extended the number of formulae that the algorithms in trajectory.c
[20:43:49] <CIA-8> and planner.c are based on. Will add the bib. refs. at a later stage
[20:43:49] <CIA-8> along with additional text (probably included from the source files).
[20:44:02] <weyland> fsck me running...
[20:44:09] <weyland> sigh
[20:44:21] <weyland> but how much to get it to fort laudedale?
[20:44:31] <jmkasunich> yeah
[20:44:34] <weyland> I've got $375 in this oen :)
[20:44:36] <weyland> one
[20:44:43] <weyland> and it's local
[20:44:48] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=97230&item=7520958146&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[20:44:50] <jmkasunich> the rust belt is full of machines, but the people who want them aren't in the rust belt
[20:44:58] <weyland> zackly
[20:45:25] <jmkasunich> robin: that's already 1 order of magnitude to high, and there are 8 days to go
[20:45:42] <robin_sz> what I was going to say ...
[20:45:44] <robin_sz> was ..
[20:45:51] <weyland> saw that one too
[20:45:54] <robin_sz> I saw a hardinge of that sort of size and shape
[20:45:57] <weyland> too much
[20:46:04] <robin_sz> go for 400 GBP a while ago
[20:46:10] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=20-273-004 ;-)
[20:47:23] <robin_sz> ooh look
[20:47:24] <robin_sz> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=92083&item=7520128064&rd=1
[20:47:29] <robin_sz> 255 GBP
[20:47:37] <jmkasunich> geez... monarch's are built like brick sh!thouses http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=40-297-004
[20:47:54] <jmkasunich> headstock's nearly as long as the working space
[20:48:34] <jmkasunich> nice robin... shame it's on the wrong side of the ocean tho
[20:48:34] <weyland> holy shit, I'd take either of those
[20:48:53] <jmkasunich> the mazak or the hardinge?
[20:48:55] <weyland> I'd pay him at least 10USD to bring it here
[20:49:12] <robin_sz> we see them at that sort of price often .. USA cant be that different
[20:49:12] <weyland> :)
[20:49:16] <weyland> it is
[20:49:25] <robin_sz> nah
[20:49:28] <weyland> it's the us, after all
[20:49:41] <weyland> we're stupid in so many ways...
[20:49:45] <weyland> lol
[20:49:48] <robin_sz> in CA at one point it was pretty much scrap price
[20:50:00] <weyland> that point is gone
[20:50:02] <alex_joni> weyland: may I quote you?
[20:50:06] <alex_joni> *grin
[20:50:11] <weyland> absofuskinglutely
[20:50:15] <alex_joni> lol
[20:50:43] <jacky^> re
[20:50:48] <weyland> you may get beaten by the masses for doing so, tho
[20:51:04] <weyland> :)
[20:51:04] <alex_joni> lol
[20:51:08] <robin_sz> shrug ... you may think that point has gone, actually, you just reached a flat bit on the slope, it gets steeper from here on in
[20:51:25] <jmkasunich> weyland - hou bout a 10EE for $999
[20:51:34] <weyland> it's a double edged sword, actually
[20:51:36] <jmkasunich> missing the compound
[20:51:59] <weyland> jmkasunich: maybe in a few months
[20:52:12] <weyland> now that machine prices are going back up
[20:52:29] <weyland> I'm hoping it's an indicator that we're actually using them agian
[20:52:43] <robin_sz> two things ...
[20:52:46] <robin_sz> 1) china
[20:52:56] <robin_sz> 2) doubling of fuel prices in the next 12 months
[20:53:15] <weyland> and not just a relfection that they're actually worth more now at the scrap yeard
[20:54:09] <weyland> jmkasunich: if I were just opening a shop, and needed a lathe, and had 1K, I'd snap that monarch up~!
[20:54:19] <anonimasu> :)
[20:54:34] <weyland> my 10heavy has served my very well for years
[20:54:37] <jmkasunich> I've had to pass up several in that 1000-1500 price range. Too heavy
[20:54:43] <anonimasu> :/
[20:54:49] <anonimasu> heavy lathes rock
[20:54:55] <weyland> oh, yeah... you have that basement thing going on
[20:54:58] <robin_sz> if I was opening a shop ... I wouldnt buy any non-cnc machines
[20:54:59] <anonimasu> although just if you have space..
[20:55:02] <weyland> yes they do
[20:55:11] <robin_sz> infact, I havent :)
[20:55:15] <jmkasunich> heavy machine in general are great, but space and stairs make it hard to get them home
[20:55:50] <weyland> robin_sz: sometimes it's a matter of funds and availablility
[20:55:51] <jmkasunich> robin: depends on the nature of the business you want to do, but in general you are probably right
[20:55:54] <robin_sz> manual machines for a shop just dont make sense these days ... you have to find skilled labor to work them .. and thats where the trouble starts
[20:55:59] <anonimasu> yep
[20:56:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:56:04] <weyland> too many variables for a sweeping stement like that
[20:56:23] <anonimasu> well, nowdays cad drawing stuff is so easy..
[20:56:26] <robin_sz> weyland: I hear what you are saying .. and I agree, if you have lots of spare cash, yeah get a manual machine
[20:56:43] <jmkasunich> for a 1 man shop like mine where I'm really selling design, ingenuity, and convenience, not products, manual machines are OK
[20:56:43] <anonimasu> if you can afford the cam programs it's faster..
[20:56:49] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:56:54] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: agreed
[20:56:54] <anonimasu> that's true
[20:56:58] <anonimasu> but for producing stuff..
[20:57:04] <weyland> Exactly!
[20:57:05] <robin_sz> jmkasunich: but you are forever stuck at the i man level
[20:57:10] <anonimasu> a lathe and a dro goes far..
[20:57:17] <jmkasunich> which suits me fine at this point
[20:57:20] <weyland> robin_sz: I disagree
[20:57:20] <robin_sz> right
[20:57:27] <weyland> I'm moving forward...
[20:57:37] <jmkasunich> I do my day job for a living, the side work pays for toys and trips to EMC-fest and such
[20:57:37] <robin_sz> weyland: have you ever employed people to operate machinery?
[20:57:44] <weyland> yes
[20:57:53] <robin_sz> and they did it, reliably?
[20:58:16] <weyland> yes, but I'm an asshole, and anal
[20:58:23] <anonimasu> well, I've made so manu things on my mill lately..
[20:58:27] <weyland> fear of death goes far
[20:58:49] <anonimasu> many.. for work, and hand machining it would be hell
[20:58:53] <anonimasu> :)
[20:59:06] <robin_sz> well, in my experience, only 2 things work, 1) doing it yourself and 2) having the cnc do it. as soon as you get your staff to do it, they find new and ingenious ways to fuck it up
[20:59:12] <Jymmm> Ah so now we know why weyland doesn't want a CNC center... too afraid the employees will stuff him in it!
[20:59:13] <weyland> sure... I'm not saying cnc doesn't open opportunities
[20:59:20] <weyland> LOL
[20:59:24] <anonimasu> lol
[20:59:28] <anonimasu> it opens them all..
[20:59:44] <anonimasu> the parts you have to turn for 50 minutes, you can do in 20...
[20:59:51] <anonimasu> or les..
[20:59:52] <robin_sz> right
[20:59:52] <anonimasu> less..
[20:59:57] <robin_sz> and .. they are all right
[21:00:00] <weyland> what I'm saying is that it isn't *necessarily* the only, or even best, way to *start* a shop...
[21:00:08] <robin_sz> wrong wrong wrong
[21:00:11] <anonimasu> no worrying about precision either..
[21:00:16] <anonimasu> well, that's the way I'd start one..
[21:00:26] <anonimasu> keep my job, and start doing machining on the side..
[21:00:31] <robin_sz> look, if you have loads of cash you can afford to subsidise a manual machine
[21:00:37] <weyland> and that's great, if one has the funds and machinery space available
[21:00:41] <robin_sz> but if you want profit, look at a cnc
[21:00:51] <anonimasu> oh, it's great if you have somone to machine for you
[21:01:04] <weyland> that's exactly how I gto started
[21:01:14] <weyland> we just spoke of this last night, ehre
[21:01:15] <robin_sz> well, take that hardinge CNC on ebay with a duff control
[21:01:15] <weyland> here
[21:01:23] <robin_sz> its cheap.
[21:01:28] <robin_sz> its big and heavy ...
[21:01:29] <anonimasu> robin_sz: does baldor do lathe's ?
[21:01:40] <robin_sz> and unfixable probably
[21:01:41] <Jymmm> weyland : I'm in an apartment. I have no space for a mill and/or lathe (even mini ones). But at least to get started, I do have room for a cnc router. There is no way in hell I could do anything reliably and within the same month manually.
[21:02:02] <robin_sz> but .. this is where you come in ...
[21:02:09] <anonimasu> I tried to mill stuff manually..
[21:02:11] <weyland> and not economical to get here, and then repair, spending time to do so, losing money while doing it
[21:02:20] <robin_sz> weyland: what do you have to give you an edge in the buisiness? answer .. your brain
[21:02:22] <anonimasu> eh?
[21:02:42] <weyland> robin_sz: yes, that's it exactly
[21:02:42] <anonimasu> your time is money..
[21:02:51] <robin_sz> you could take that lathe, drop on a replacement cnc control, and run it to its limits
[21:02:54] <robin_sz> programme it
[21:02:57] <robin_sz> make it efficient
[21:03:03] <anonimasu> every second you turn on the lathe is a second you could be looking for more work
[21:03:23] <robin_sz> you are now using your most valuabel and scarce resource ( your brain ) effectively to power your business
[21:03:39] <robin_sz> there is NO money to be made doing donkey work on a lathe
[21:03:46] <Jymmm> weyland have to ever produced a part, then get 95% complete just to find out one ting was off and you have to start all over again?
[21:03:47] <anonimasu> but well, I've seen shops buying cnc machines just to do it manually..
[21:04:03] <weyland> *IF* the PROJECT is within your available cash and time limits
[21:04:04] <robin_sz> except perhaps high quality prototyoe work
[21:04:13] <anonimasu> because they couldnt use them to 20% of the potential
[21:04:17] <anonimasu> that's what I like about cnc machines
[21:04:19] <anonimasu> prototyping
[21:04:22] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:04:29] <weyland> yes, agreed
[21:04:37] <robin_sz> make one, not right, adjsut drawing, hit go again
[21:04:41] <anonimasu> yep
[21:04:47] <robin_sz> no time wasted
[21:04:47] <weyland> I'm not against CNCs by *ANY* means... don't misundersatand that
[21:04:53] <Jymmm> backup to cdc and thru in valut =)
[21:04:55] <robin_sz> me neither
[21:04:56] <weyland> or I wouldh't have done the mill, and just bought a lather
[21:05:04] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:05:05] <robin_sz> I have a manual lathe
[21:05:09] <robin_sz> its great
[21:05:11] <anonimasu> * anonimasu dose too
[21:05:13] <anonimasu> does too
[21:05:14] <weyland> what I'm saying is that I don't think it's necesary to open a succesfgul shop
[21:05:15] <robin_sz> but ...
[21:05:20] <robin_sz> its not a money maker
[21:05:23] <anonimasu> but machining 20 bushings, takes lots of time
[21:05:28] <robin_sz> shit yeah
[21:05:33] <weyland> I disagree
[21:05:36] <robin_sz> and theyll all be different
[21:05:38] <weyland> it's not about the time to do it
[21:05:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz falls off his chair
[21:05:51] <weyland> it's about using that time to let the machine do it and doing something else, yourself
[21:05:53] <robin_sz> oh yes it is
[21:06:00] <robin_sz> right
[21:06:02] <Jymmm> weyland I honestly feel that TODAY (10 yrs ago different) you need some kind of edge over your neighbor/china.
[21:06:02] <anonimasu> robin_sz: ~+/-0.01
[21:06:05] <weyland> read the abovr
[21:06:23] <robin_sz> well ...
[21:06:27] <cradek> weyland: was it you asking about a hemisphere?
[21:06:31] <robin_sz> the edge of china is easy
[21:06:32] <weyland> yes
[21:06:36] <robin_sz> over
[21:06:38] <weyland> and python
[21:06:44] <cradek> weyland: I put a much-improved program on the web site http://timeguy.com
[21:06:45] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the larger the lathe the easier ;)
[21:06:45] <weyland> and your image2gcode program
[21:06:48] <robin_sz> the edge over china is easy ...
[21:06:55] <robin_sz> they pay the same for steel as we do
[21:07:01] <robin_sz> but less for labor
[21:07:06] <weyland> cradek: can't get it installed
[21:07:06] <robin_sz> quality is identical
[21:07:12] <robin_sz> our edge is simple.
[21:07:18] <cradek> weyland: can't get what installed?
[21:07:21] <robin_sz> tleadtimes
[21:07:29] <weyland> the PIL stuff
[21:07:31] <robin_sz> find a market that needs short leadtimes
[21:07:45] <SWP_Away> cradek: did you modify it to actually cut the pocket, or does it still do only the hemisphere surface?
[21:07:50] <cradek> weyland: but you have a working python installation?
[21:07:58] <weyland> yes, I believe so
[21:08:09] <weyland> in usr/lib/python2.2
[21:08:10] <cradek> SWP_Away: you would cut the pocket by iterating r from "small" to the finished size
[21:08:11] <SWP_Away> ah - surface only
[21:08:26] <SWP_Away> right - this would be good for the finish pass :)
[21:08:55] <cradek> SWP_Away: yeah, simple matter of adding another loop of r.
[21:09:04] <alex_joni> cradek: hello
[21:09:08] <cradek> alex_joni: hi
[21:09:19] <alex_joni> got my msg's ?
[21:09:28] <cradek> weyland: what problem are you having installing PIL? You should be able to just use "python setup.py install"
[21:09:35] <SWP_Away> a roughing pass using only circles (or an outer circle and X/Y moves) in the X-Y pland, and doing a waterline approach would also work (but it's definitely more complex to code)
[21:09:38] <weyland> shold I post the error msgs?
[21:09:46] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: China pays more for steel than we do.. They have to pay transport to get it there.
[21:09:48] <cradek> weyland: sure.
[21:09:53] <SWP_Away> by the way, great work - that looks pretty cool!
[21:09:53] <cradek> alex_joni: yep, now I did
[21:09:56] <weyland> gcc -DNDEBUG -O2 -g -pipe -march=i386 -mcpu=i686 -D_GNU_SOURCE -fPIC -fPIC -I/usr/include/freetype2 -IlibImaging -I/usr/include -I/usr/local/include -I/usr/include/python2.2 -c _imagingtk.c -o build/temp.linux-i686-2.2/_imagingtk.o
[21:09:56] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:20:16: tk.h: No such file or directory
[21:09:56] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:23: error: syntax error before '*' token
[21:09:56] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:31: error: syntax error before "Tcl_Interp"
[21:09:56] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:31: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
[21:10:00] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:32: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
[21:10:02] <weyland> _imagingtk.c: In function `_tkinit':
[21:10:03] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: could be true
[21:10:04] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:37: error: `Tcl_Interp' undeclared (first use in this function)
[21:10:05] <cradek> weyland: install tk
[21:10:05] <alex_joni> you need tk
[21:10:06] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:37: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
[21:10:08] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:37: error: for each function it appears in.)
[21:10:10] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:37: error: `interp' undeclared (first use in this function)
[21:10:14] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:45: error: syntax error before ')' token
[21:10:16] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:50: error: `app' undeclared (first use in this function)
[21:10:18] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:50: error: syntax error before ')' token
[21:10:20] <SWP_Away> paste
[21:10:20] <weyland> _imagingtk.c: At top level:
[21:10:21] <robin_sz> ahhh fsck
[21:10:22] <SWP_Away> too
[21:10:22] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:55: warning: parameter names (without types) in function declaration
[21:10:23] <cradek> eeeeee
[21:10:24] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:55: error: conflicting types for `TkImaging_Init'
[21:10:25] <SWP_Away> many
[21:10:26] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:23: error: previous declaration of `TkImaging_Init'
[21:10:27] <SWP_Away> lines
[21:10:28] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:55: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
[21:10:32] <weyland> _imagingtk.c:57: error: syntax error before '&' token
[21:10:32] <alex_joni> ENOUGH
[21:10:34] <weyland> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
[21:10:36] <weyland> "apt-get install tk" ?
[21:10:40] <robin_sz> stop now ...
[21:10:44] <alex_joni> weyland: python-tk
[21:10:44] <weyland> ?
[21:10:47] <cradek> yeah it'll probably also need tcl.
[21:10:49] <robin_sz> no paste
[21:10:53] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I found out I had to change some stuff on the seed machinery, since the positioning of the was less great in reality..
[21:10:57] <weyland> ah, sorry
[21:11:14] <weyland> what did it do? the pasting
[21:11:24] <alex_joni> too much pasting
[21:11:32] <alex_joni> the first 3 lines would have been enough
[21:11:42] <weyland> oh, sorry, I didn't know
[21:11:43] <anonimasu> robin_sz: the joy of cnc is having a protytpe on your desk in 20 minutes after hearing it..
[21:11:44] <robin_sz> anonimasu: you mean it was being bounced around all over the place shaky shaky with the seeds?
[21:12:00] <weyland> brb
[21:12:07] <anonimasu> robin_sz: oh that werent the trouble they hit it with somthing, deforming the stainless canister..
[21:12:15] <robin_sz> ah right
[21:12:23] <robin_sz> like .. a tree
[21:12:24] <anonimasu> the weldment broke on the cover. ..
[21:12:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:12:28] <robin_sz> heh
[21:12:30] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Armor plate that sucker. :)
[21:12:39] <anonimasu> 1000Nm dead stop into somthing
[21:12:50] <robin_sz> anonimasu: the great thing of CNC is it allows you to scale your business
[21:12:51] <anonimasu> err 1000nm of torque.. and 4.5t
[21:12:57] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Drug trest the operator?
[21:12:58] <robin_sz> weyland: you still here??
[21:13:00] <SWP_Away> here we go: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7519269917
[21:13:01] <Phydbleep> test
[21:13:04] <weyland> yes
[21:13:06] <cradek> ll
[21:13:14] <robin_sz> one moment ... dont run off
[21:13:15] <weyland> baq and forth between terminal
[21:13:49] <weyland> cradek: Couldn't find package python-tk
[21:14:00] <robin_sz> have you read the business stuff on sherline.com?
[21:14:08] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:14:14] <weyland> me? no
[21:14:24] <robin_sz> http://www.sherline.com/business.htm
[21:14:26] <cradek> weyland: I'm not a debianer. How do you search for a package?
[21:14:30] <cradek> weyland: try just "tk"
[21:14:33] <robin_sz> take a couple of hours ..
[21:14:35] <alex_joni> weyland: hang on a moment
[21:14:50] <anonimasu> err *ponders why he did write [off]*
[21:14:51] <alex_joni> apt-get update apt-get install python-opengl python-tk python-dev xlibmesa-dev \ freeglut-dev
[21:15:04] <alex_joni> python-tk should be there
[21:15:14] <alex_joni> weyland: you sure you're connected to the net?
[21:15:17] <alex_joni> on that machine?
[21:15:23] <robin_sz> weyland: joe martin is the bloke who founded sherline, read that article, its worth more than 20 years of hard business experience , starting fromt he msall shop scenario
[21:15:34] <Jymmm> apt-search <pkg name>
[21:15:37] <weyland> AHHhhhhhhhhhhh - too many threads... hold on
[21:15:53] <alex_joni> lol
[21:15:54] <anonimasu> robin_sz: it's a good/great deal.. I can afford tools and upgrades :)
[21:15:59] <alex_joni> cradek: any thoughts?
[21:16:22] <weyland> cradek: tk is already the newest version.
[21:16:25] <Phydbleep> cradek: You should have apt-get, do you have synaptic?
[21:16:34] <cradek> Phydbleep: I don't use debian
[21:16:36] <cradek> weyland: ok
[21:16:38] <cradek> alex_joni: not really
[21:16:54] <cradek> alex_joni: I would have to get the patches you have done so far and dig into it.
[21:16:57] <Phydbleep> cradek: What distro?
[21:17:04] <cradek> Phydbleep: redhat
[21:17:27] <cradek> alex_joni: I don't have rt on this machine, so I can't build emc2, since there is no sim, which makes me sad.
[21:18:11] <cradek> alex_joni: also, I can't install rt, since it conflicts with the closed-source nvidia driver, which makes me even sadder.
[21:18:13] <Phydbleep> cradek: Get the 'apt-get' rpms and synaptic, then you can grab debian pkgs.. :)
[21:18:30] <cradek> Phydbleep: why would I want debian packages?
[21:18:52] <cradek> Phydbleep: (that was a rhetorical question)
[21:20:03] <Phydbleep> cradek: I thought you were looking for a way to deal with pkgs.. I like synaptic better than most of the other pkg managers I've seen. :)
[21:20:10] <Jymmm> cradek buy a real video card =)
[21:20:15] <cradek> Phydbleep: nope, I'm fine
[21:20:34] <cradek> Jymmm: I don't know of others with such good GL performance
[21:20:43] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep beats Jymmm senseless with a Voodoo5.
[21:20:44] <cradek> Jymmm: that cost $30 like these do
[21:21:10] <Jymmm> cradek add two more digits and I got soemthing in mind you can use =)
[21:21:13] <alex_joni> cradek: how does it conflict?
[21:21:18] <Jymmm> cradek hey, dual video.
[21:21:33] <cradek> alex_joni: it just doesn't work... I think the screen goes black, but I forget for sure.
[21:21:46] <Phydbleep> cradek: Hehehe... You need the Diamond Fire GL4000 I sent to Tom. :)
[21:21:55] <alex_joni> hmm.. but still you can have 2 kernels
[21:22:03] <cradek> Phydbleep: what I really need is emc2/sim
[21:22:28] <alex_joni> and the emc2 stuff only needs to get compiled, don't need to run it :D
[21:22:33] <cradek> (but that's an aside)
[21:22:42] <alex_joni> cradek: it's noted
[21:22:51] <alex_joni> but unfortunately not very high priority :)
[21:22:51] <cradek> I know, sorry to keep complaining about it
[21:23:01] <jmkasunich> what we ned for that is rtapi-sim
[21:23:05] <alex_joni> cradek: you're allowed to bitch about it
[21:23:10] <jmkasunich> but its ugly
[21:23:12] <cradek> alex_joni: oh good
[21:23:28] <Phydbleep> cradek: And carp, complain and kvetch. :)
[21:23:30] <alex_joni> as much as you want
[21:24:16] <jacky^> is there any open source software to produce g-code on linux ?
[21:24:18] <Jymmm> cradek I got a Trident 8600 you can have =)
[21:24:37] <Jymmm> cradek Mmmmmmmmmmmm 8Bit ISA
[21:24:41] <cradek> Jymmm: I have *plenty* of video cards, but just this one with DVI
[21:24:50] <Phydbleep> jacky^: I saw some somewhere I think.
[21:24:58] <jmkasunich> cradek: what card is it?
[21:25:34] <cradek> jmkasunich: nvidia g-force xx00
[21:25:51] <jmkasunich> I'm running a g-force here, 4400 I think
[21:26:03] <jmkasunich> with BDI-4.20, using standard linux drivers IIRC
[21:26:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: might be a 4400
[21:26:24] <cradek> jmkasunich: is X using the vesa driver?
[21:26:27] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: but without accel
[21:26:43] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: Can you 'twin-head' with that setup?
[21:26:47] <jmkasunich> just bought it about 3 months ago, $69 with $30 rebate
[21:26:57] <cradek> jmkasunich: I have to use the nvidia driver and reduced-blanking timings to run my 1600x1200 lcd on DVI
[21:27:16] <jmkasunich> I'm running 1600x1200 on a sony LCD
[21:27:22] <cradek> on DVI?
[21:27:33] <jmkasunich> no, on VGA, but I
[21:27:35] <jacky^> i tried synergy and i losted in a labirint .. :\
[21:27:39] <cradek> (II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU detected as: GeForce4 MX 4000
[21:27:54] <jmkasunich> but I'm almost certain it can do it on DVI, that was one criteria I checked when buying
[21:28:14] <jmkasunich> (right now I'm using a VGA KVM switch, but I expect to eventually direct connect the monitor)
[21:28:27] <cradek> jmkasunich: I had no luck with either the vesa or nv drivers. I could not get 1600x1200.
[21:28:58] <jmkasunich> I wonder how I check what drivers this is using? kernel logs from startup?
[21:29:04] <alex_joni> lsmod?
[21:29:17] <cradek> jmkasunich: the X log
[21:29:23] <alex_joni> and less /etc/X11/XF86Config
[21:29:24] <cradek> jmkasunich: or, the X config file
[21:29:49] <cradek> Section "Device" / Driver
[21:30:30] <jmkasunich> Section "Device"
[21:30:30] <jmkasunich> Identifier "Videocard0"
[21:30:31] <jmkasunich> Driver "nv"
[21:30:31] <jmkasunich> VendorName "Videocard vendor"
[21:30:32] <jmkasunich> BoardName "NVIDIA GeForce 4 MX (generic)"
[21:30:32] <jmkasunich> EndSection
[21:30:53] <cradek> which X version?
[21:31:18] <jmkasunich> XFree86 ver 4 I think?
[21:31:19] <cradek> % xdpyinfo|grep vendor
[21:31:46] <cradek> the nv driver on xfree86 4.3.0 doesn't work with this card at all (blank screen)
[21:31:47] <jmkasunich> 40300001
[21:31:55] <cradek> huh.
[21:32:04] <weyland> cradek: can you tell me the problem with the install?
[21:32:08] <cradek> jmkasunich: I bet your DVI doesn't work.
[21:32:24] <Jymmm> cradek why dont you use the vga instead?
[21:32:26] <cradek> weyland: huh? did you install tk?
[21:32:38] <weyland> was already the latest version
[21:32:47] <cradek> but your compile couldn't find tk.h
[21:32:54] <cradek> maybe tk devel is separate?
[21:33:08] <weyland> okay, what does that mean I need to do?
[21:33:12] <alex_joni> tk-dev ?
[21:33:14] <jmkasunich> cradek: maybe it doesn't... that would be a bummer
[21:33:17] <weyland> I'm not a programmer typre
[21:33:25] <weyland> type
[21:33:27] <cradek> weyland: yeah try tk-dev or tk-devel or something like that
[21:33:32] <weyland> okay
[21:33:35] <weyland> brb
[21:33:39] <alex_joni> apt-search tk devel
[21:33:56] <jacky^> apt-cache ?
[21:34:07] <alex_joni> yeah
[21:34:13] <alex_joni> apt-cache search tk devel
[21:34:17] <alex_joni> sorry.. it's late ;)
[21:34:19] <cradek> it's pretty hard to monkey up a decent python install.
[21:34:24] <weyland> "apt-get install tk-devel" did it
[21:34:28] <jacky^> :)
[21:34:40] <weyland> lemme go try the install now
[21:35:02] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[21:35:41] <weyland> huge list of errors
[21:35:46] <weyland> no, I'm not pasting them
[21:35:48] <weyland> :)
[21:36:00] <weyland> lemme try the same with tcl
[21:36:06] <jacky^> weyland: tried first apt-get update ?
[21:36:25] <weyland> yeah, did that
[21:36:32] <jmkasunich> you should have tck and tk stuff... you were able to compile emc2, which includes emcsh and some other tck related stuff
[21:36:50] <weyland> different machine
[21:36:53] <weyland> that did it
[21:36:53] <cradek> 16:08:42 < weyland> _imagingtk.c:20:16: tk.h: No such file or directory
[21:36:55] <jmkasunich> oh
[21:36:56] <weyland> it isntalled
[21:37:05] <cradek> PIL installed?
[21:37:11] <weyland> yes
[21:37:12] <cradek> yay
[21:37:18] <weyland> Haha
[21:37:28] <weyland> okay, lemme go try your stuff now :)
[21:37:38] <weyland> brb
[21:43:33] <ValarQ> is this the debian/python support channel?
[21:43:39] <cradek> ha
[21:44:01] <ValarQ> ;)
[21:45:11] <alex_joni> python setup.py install-debian
[21:45:19] <alex_joni> apt-get install python
[21:45:50] <cradek> rpm --erase debian
[21:46:11] <jacky^> ghghg :\
[21:46:32] <alex_joni> rm -R /*
[21:47:13] <jmkasunich> forgot the -f
[21:47:49] <alex_joni> yeah.. right
[21:50:29] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: busy?
[21:51:04] <jmkasunich> flailing around with that stepgen thing... a break might be good
[21:51:13] <jmkasunich> what's up?
[21:51:20] <fenn> cackle.. joe martin writes: The Microsoft Word® program that I used was as much as a work of art as the marvelous cathedrals of the 17th century. We just haven’t acknowledged it yet.
[21:51:35] <jacky^> hey guys, i made a test running isd.ngc, at the end the logo appear reversed like in to the mirror .. is it normal ?
[21:51:59] <jmkasunich> lol.... the cathedrals lasted centuries, the program lasts a year if you're lucky
[21:52:19] <fenn> jacky add a - sign before UNITS
[21:52:33] <alex_joni> jacky^: you might be looking at it from the wrong side
[21:52:35] <alex_joni> :))
[21:52:36] <fenn> er, was that input_scale?
[21:52:45] <jacky^> the motors are connected right, i think..
[21:52:59] <alex_joni> fenn: input_scale I think
[21:53:08] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: about that refactor
[21:53:13] <jmkasunich> do your jogs go in the expected direction?
[21:53:23] <jacky^> as input scale i'm using 100
[21:53:34] <jmkasunich> mm I assume?
[21:54:03] <jacky^> yeah, mm
[21:54:10] <jmkasunich> emc1 or emc2?
[21:54:33] <jacky^> i suppose emc2, i'm not sure,
[21:54:39] <jacky^> bdi 4.20
[21:55:19] <jmkasunich> unless you downloaded and compiled, that is the bdi-4 branch.. kind of a hybrid between 1 and 2
[21:55:30] <jacky^> ah, ok..
[21:55:39] <robin_sz> the "sherline special"
[21:55:46] <jmkasunich> do jogs go in the right direction?
[21:56:25] <jmkasunich> alex: about that
[21:56:26] <jacky^> umpf :\ i don't know how to use manual command so..
[21:56:37] <alex_joni> F5->G01X10
[21:56:42] <jacky^> i just move using - and + button
[21:57:28] <jmkasunich> take a pencil or pen and draw a X-Y axis on your part
[21:57:44] <jacky^> for the x and y axes it travel in the stepper direction when push - button
[21:57:47] <jmkasunich> then use +/- to move to the point of axis interection
[21:57:57] <jacky^> reverse, instead for z axes
[21:58:11] <jmkasunich> what do you mean "in the stepper direction"?
[21:58:20] <jacky^> near the motor
[21:58:40] <jmkasunich> that doesn't help us because we don't know which end your motors are on ;-)
[21:58:52] <jmkasunich> draw a "L" on your part
[21:59:03] <jmkasunich> put "+X" at the end of the horizontal part
[21:59:15] <jmkasunich> and "+Y" at the end of the vertical part
[21:59:26] <jmkasunich> use the +/- to move to the intersection of the two lines
[21:59:37] <jmkasunich> then do + on X axis, does it move toward +X?
[21:59:50] <jmkasunich> do + on Y axis, does it move toward +Y?
[22:00:09] <jacky^> bah.. :(°°°°
[22:00:17] <jacky^> the strange thing is
[22:00:28] <jmkasunich> important - "IT" is the tip of the tool, relative to the workpiece, not the table movement
[22:00:32] <jacky^> i tried 3d_chips and it made a penguin
[22:00:42] <jacky^> i suppose normal
[22:00:55] <jacky^> with isd instead, in reverse mode
[22:01:17] <jmkasunich> chips is symmetrical, so you couldn't tell whether it was mirrored or not
[22:01:24] <jacky^> ok, tnx will try tomorrow your tips
[22:01:49] <jacky^> aha.. is simmetrical !
[22:02:03] <alex_joni> check his toes
[22:02:19] <jmkasunich> huh?
[22:02:21] <alex_joni> chips has 3 toes on the right leg
[22:02:26] <alex_joni> also 3 toes on the left leg
[22:02:36] <alex_joni> but surely 3 on the right one ;)
[22:02:37] <jmkasunich> well that's not very helpfull
[22:02:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is half asleep
[22:02:52] <alex_joni> :=)
[22:02:59] <jmkasunich> 1am there isn't it?
[22:03:22] <alex_joni> about ;)
[22:03:24] <jmkasunich> you really want to talk about hal refactor?
[22:03:26] <alex_joni> [01:01] <alex_joni> about ;)
[22:03:29] <jacky^> aniway, today i got a positive step, finally with 100 as input scale it seem work quite well
[22:03:47] <jacky^> i tried all from 1 to 1000.. LOL :\
[22:04:13] <jmkasunich> seems like the hard way of finding the right value
[22:04:15] <jacky^> at the end tuning the velocity seem work fine
[22:04:27] <jacky^> :(
[22:04:35] <alex_joni> I would have started using 1000, and moved X10
[22:04:40] <alex_joni> and measured the distance
[22:05:01] <jmkasunich> I would have looked at the screws, belts, etc, and calculated the value
[22:05:10] <jmkasunich> (maybe fine tune later with a measurement)
[22:05:22] <alex_joni> yeah.. but that wasn't available to jacky^
[22:05:29] <jmkasunich> ?
[22:05:31] <alex_joni> asked him what screws he has
[22:05:33] <alex_joni> M6
[22:05:42] <alex_joni> not very helpfull on ipr calcs
[22:05:53] <jmkasunich> he can't measure the pitch?
[22:05:59] <alex_joni> dunno..
[22:06:02] <jacky^> i think 1 mm
[22:06:15] <jmkasunich> if it's standard 6 screw threads, you can just look it up
[22:06:22] <jmkasunich> s/6/M6/
[22:06:29] <jacky^> so, maybe 100 for input scale it's a right value ?
[22:06:53] <alex_joni> you said you had 200 steps/rot steppers?
[22:06:56] <jmkasunich> if you tell to move 10mm, and it moves 10mm, then it is the right value
[22:06:58] <alex_joni> or was that smby else?
[22:06:59] <jacky^> yeah 200
[22:07:14] <jacky^> on this i'm sure
[22:07:22] <alex_joni> if you have 1mm pitch and 200 steps/rot then 100 might not be ok
[22:07:31] <alex_joni> but probably it's 0.5 mm pitch
[22:07:34] <jacky^> yeah
[22:07:38] <alex_joni> so 200 x 0.5 = 100
[22:07:46] <jmkasunich> 0.5mm pitch is pretty fine thread
[22:08:03] <alex_joni> yup
[22:08:09] <alex_joni> not very standard on M6
[22:08:30] <jacky^> with the old value chips was about 3 cm lenght
[22:08:46] <jacky^> now is 10 cm, i suppose right
[22:10:05] <jmkasunich> jacky: are you using tkemc GUI?
[22:10:25] <jacky^> some day ago..
[22:10:38] <jacky^> now i'm tring to learn sherline gui
[22:10:44] <jmkasunich> oh
[22:10:55] <jmkasunich> I'm not familiar with the sherline gui
[22:11:19] <jmkasunich> is there an incremental jog mode on that GUI?
[22:11:29] <jacky^> anyway also using tkemc
[22:11:47] <jmkasunich> if so, try doing some 10mm incremental jogs and see if it actually moves 10mm
[22:11:50] <alex_joni> that's mini
[22:12:19] <alex_joni> sherline gui=mini
[22:12:32] <jacky^> jmkasunich: will try tomorrow at morning
[22:12:36] <jmkasunich> tkemc in inch mode can do 1.000, 0.100, 0.010, 0.001, and 0.0001 inch incremental jogs... I expect it can do something similar in mm
[22:12:37] <jacky^> i will say you
[22:13:03] <jacky^> now can't turn on the machine because my mammy is sleeping in the room near :\
[22:13:13] <jmkasunich> lol
[22:13:17] <jacky^> :)
[22:13:40] <jmkasunich> none of these tests need the spindle turned on BTW
[22:13:41] <jacky^> it make a big sound
[22:13:46] <jacky^> not so good ..
[22:14:00] <alex_joni> maybe the steppers whine a bit ;)
[22:14:22] <jacky^> the stepper i buyed from internet at low price
[22:14:31] <jacky^> maybe not new stepper
[22:14:43] <jacky^> too low cost..
[22:14:56] <jacky^> but are working
[22:15:26] <jacky^> for me the precision now is not so important, i want to learn first :D
[22:15:51] <jmkasunich> true... but asking for 10mm and getting 5mm or 20mm is not just a minor precision problem
[22:15:53] <jacky^> * jacky^ hope to learn..
[22:16:15] <jacky^> jmkasunich: right
[22:16:44] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: it's all relative
[22:16:48] <jmkasunich> start with the basics, does each individual axis move in the right direction and the right amount
[22:16:55] <fenn> precision is based more on how your machine is built and how you use it than the accuracy of the steppers
[22:16:55] <jmkasunich> then move on to multi-axis moves
[22:17:01] <jmkasunich> and finally try cutting something
[22:17:02] <alex_joni> maybe +/- 20 mm is not a very good precision for you..
[22:18:06] <jacky^> yes, sure
[22:18:06] <jmkasunich> I'm not talking about +/- 20mm, I'm talking about 2:1 scaling errors
[22:18:50] <jmkasunich> 200 steps per rev on a 1mm screw means 200 steps/mm, not 100steps/mm
[22:19:01] <alex_joni> maybe 2:1 scaling error is not a very good precision for you ;)
[22:19:14] <jmkasunich> if the screw is only 0.5mm pitch, then the scale will be 100step/mm
[22:19:22] <alex_joni> but it might be for somebody who doesn't really care what they do :)
[22:19:32] <jmkasunich> but a 0.5mm pitch 6mm dia screw is unlikely
[22:19:34] <alex_joni> not sure why they still do it ;)
[22:20:26] <weyland> weyland is now known as weyland_awayplay
[22:20:34] <jacky^> well, tomorrow i'll try with manual command measuring... we will know
[22:20:38] <fenn> maybe the stepper is using full steps instead of half steps or something like that
[22:20:53] <jacky^> no,
[22:20:57] <jmkasunich> 200 steps/rev is full steps, unless it's a strange stepper
[22:20:59] <jacky^> beh.. a moment
[22:21:11] <jacky^> i'm using 2 differente controllers
[22:21:33] <jacky^> i was already 2 old controllers
[22:21:42] <jacky^> 3° i made from myself
[22:21:59] <jacky^> but they work with half step
[22:22:59] <jacky^> to use full step i should send 5V to the controller on a specified pin
[22:23:11] <jacky^> to enable it
[22:28:11] <jacky^> jmkasunich: here is my stepper: http://www.micromed.it/Elettronica/stepper.htm
[22:28:25] <jacky^> the model is M22
[22:28:34] <jacky^> passi= step ..
[22:37:43] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:37:45] <alex_joni> night guys
[22:37:56] <jacky^> night alex_joni
[22:38:20] <robin_sz> night
[22:49:40] <weyland_awayplay> weyland_awayplay is now known as weyland
[22:50:05] <weyland> gotta go guys, dinner and wife calls
[22:50:11] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[22:50:15] <jacky^> night
[22:50:27] <weyland> robin_sz: lets continue that conversation another time, okay?
[22:50:34] <robin_sz> yep
[22:50:35] <weyland> night johnboy
[22:50:38] <weyland> :)
[22:50:40] <robin_sz> ;)