#emc | Logs for 2005-06-03

[00:00:03] <Jymmm> released
[00:00:04] <les> ahem
[00:00:21] <les> haha
[00:00:29] <Jymmm> "Girl gone Wild over Les!!! Volume 12"
[00:00:39] <les> um...
[00:00:56] <les> not any more I think...
[00:00:58] <les> but...
[00:01:02] <Ircaddict> ha ha
[00:01:06] <les> I had my fun I assure you
[00:01:11] <paul_c> Jymmm: You've not seen the southern babes
[00:01:19] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... Les has gone for a cold shower.. No film @ 11.. :)
[00:01:44] <Jymmm> paul_c they gotta be better than GGW at AZ
[00:02:21] <Jymmm> That was bad... there was NOTHING they weren't doing and in front of like 2000 ppl
[00:02:23] <Ircaddict> Chickata bow wow wiki wiki
[00:02:32] <robin_sz> Jymmm: no, most of the southern babes have all their own teeth. sadly, most of them on a necklace.
[00:02:39] <Jymmm> lol
[00:02:50] <Jymmm> oh, I calls em hill folk
[00:02:54] <Jymmm> y'all
[00:03:05] <les> haha
[00:03:19] <Jymmm> Saw a sign off the freeway today.... EMC COLLISION
[00:03:27] <Jymmm> wish I had my camera
[00:03:31] <les> oh...I have those.
[00:03:35] <robin_sz> but they do have lovely eyes ...
[00:04:01] <robin_sz> but not alwyas in multiples of two ;)
[00:04:10] <Jymmm> robin_sz and so does their brother, whos theri father but only on their daughters side.
[00:04:18] <les> Wish you all could have seen the University of Florida in the wild '70's
[00:04:20] <les> gawd
[00:04:21] <robin_sz> heh
[00:04:53] <robin_sz> yeah, I lucked out there
[00:04:59] <Jymmm> les and you never got arrested for not wearing clothes huh?
[00:05:05] <robin_sz> 1) I went to uni in the 80s
[00:05:09] <les> I ...um..didn't get out of the place single.
[00:05:17] <robin_sz> and 2) Hull was not quite as swinging as florida
[00:05:31] <les> Hull eh?
[00:05:33] <robin_sz> HULL!
[00:05:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hits his head on a wall
[00:05:47] <robin_sz> why oh why did I go to Hull?
[00:05:49] <les> GATORS!
[00:06:19] <robin_sz> its the arse end of the universe.
[00:07:12] <les> I was after this long legged girl upstairs but ended up with her room mate
[00:07:16] <les> but I digress
[00:07:23] <Jymmm> les why not both?
[00:07:29] <les> I did.
[00:07:36] <robin_sz> haw
[00:08:23] <les> oh well.
[00:09:07] <les> I am just starting on new research project.
[00:09:13] <les> the spray gun thing.
[00:09:44] <les> One month preliminary research.
[00:09:59] <les> then start thinking about a product.
[00:10:29] <les> got the contract.
[00:10:58] <les> Funny thing I started looking at car ads on the internet.
[00:11:09] <les> And used Piper Warriors.
[00:11:12] <les> silly
[00:11:26] <les> I should put that income in the bank.
[00:11:43] <les> Current favorite car....
[00:11:54] <les> Audi A4 Cabriolet.
[00:13:36] <SWPadnos> gotta run - be back later
[00:13:37] <robin_sz> les: not poweder coat again?
[00:13:41] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[00:14:03] <les> The powder coat stuff I did was for BMW...not VW
[00:14:17] <robin_sz> I know
[00:14:30] <robin_sz> so its wet poaint this time?
[00:14:37] <les> This is liquid spray this time
[00:15:08] <les> generate 6 watts..85 kV....from air.
[00:15:17] <robin_sz> right. water based I assume?
[00:15:20] <les> no moving parts.
[00:15:27] <les> water and solvent
[00:15:39] <jacky^> night
[00:15:41] <robin_sz> oh .. coo. tricky .. no moving parts?
[00:15:54] <les> well not grossly moving....
[00:15:54] <jacky^> ciao
[00:16:02] <robin_sz> ahh, piezo ;)
[00:16:05] <les> piezo vibrating a few microns...
[00:16:11] <robin_sz> right
[00:16:28] <les> or magnetohydrodynamic
[00:16:44] <robin_sz> piezo is easier to spell
[00:16:53] <les> anyway I have one month and $20k to look at the options
[00:17:13] <robin_sz> nice rate :)
[00:17:13] <les> web surfing.
[00:17:28] <les> pays the bills.
[00:18:18] <les> I have to find someting practical to keep it going though
[00:18:37] <les> other wise the one month will be it for this gig
[00:19:21] <les> I do not want to do this stuff all the time though
[00:19:46] <les> I have alotted some time for turkey calls and the far east stuff
[00:33:46] <les> hi john
[00:33:50] <jmkasunich> howdy
[00:34:31] <les> I am trying to get one of Till Franzias students on this irc channel
[00:34:47] <les> He has been assigned to look at emc TP
[00:35:10] <Phydbleep> Hey John. :)
[00:35:12] <les> He needs to talk to folks like you and paul
[00:59:13] <Jymmm> far east stuff? furniture?
[00:59:36] <Jymmm> les what do you think of that router?
[00:59:56] <Jymmm> 2.25 HP
[01:00:06] <Jymmm> variable
[01:00:20] <Jymmm> hey jmkasunich
[01:01:03] <Jymmm> Oh, anyone interested in a SCSI HDD duplicator? (just the guts of it, just pay shipping)
[02:20:39] <fenn> anyone here familiar with hexapod kinematics?
[02:21:08] <Jymmm> that sounds familure for soem reason
[03:15:57] <fenn> oh man there's a lot of outdated documentation i have to go through
[03:22:16] <Jymmm> well quit yer bitchin, and get to it! <crack of the whip sound>
[03:22:37] <fenn> know of any linux .pdf editors that actually access the text of the file?
[03:22:56] <Jymmm> open office?
[03:23:18] <Jymmm> ghostview
[03:23:22] <fenn> ghostview?
[03:23:32] <Jymmm> ghost ciew or ghostscript
[03:25:35] <Jymmm> Maybe ImageMAgick can ass the text directly
[03:25:42] <Jymmm> a/ass/access/
[03:25:48] <Jymmm> s/a/s/
[03:26:02] <fenn> it just seems like such a simple thing, ya know?
[03:34:37] <fenn> sheesh acroread is 25 megs
[03:58:11] <fenn> sigh acroread crashes in 10 seconds and i have to download all of kde 3.4 just to get kpdf to work right
[03:58:58] <fenn> and of course my apt-get repository doesn't have kde 3.4
[06:33:38] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[06:35:06] <ValarQ> 'lo
[06:40:36] <A-L-P-H-A> ValarQ, anyone else awake?
[06:40:41] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[06:40:41] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[06:41:38] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, time
[06:41:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm logging. I don't understand 'time', A-L-P-H-A. Try /msg logger_aj help
[06:42:04] <A-L-P-H-A> well. that did nothing
[06:42:09] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, help
[06:42:44] <A-L-P-H-A> aj needs to add a time. so I can calculate the time zone difference.
[06:46:50] <ValarQ> A-L-P-H-A: dunno, fenn was awake 05:57 CEST
[06:50:51] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is looking at 00:45 in the GMT-7 timezone
[06:51:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I just realized that that was "central european standard time".
[06:51:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 02:50:23 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (57% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 459/1024MB (44.82%), C: 42.14gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 22.91gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2hrs 51mins 30secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[06:52:00] <Phydbleep> 01:00:08 up 26 days, 7:36, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.12, 0.04
[06:52:05] <Phydbleep> :p
[06:52:48] <ValarQ> 08:51:32 up 31 days, 12:26, 2 users, load average: 0.16, 0.10, 0.09
[06:52:52] <ValarQ> :)
[06:53:22] <Phydbleep> And the only reason it went down 26 days ago was a Ttoal power failure including a dead ups battery.
[06:53:27] <Phydbleep> Total
[06:53:46] <ValarQ> yeah, same here
[06:53:53] <Phydbleep> 00:49:23 up 81 days, 3:31, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
[06:54:51] <Phydbleep> I've got 6 or 8 more I admin that I could tap if I really wanted to show off. :)
[06:55:17] <ValarQ> :)
[06:56:41] <ValarQ> what systems do you run?
[06:58:20] <Phydbleep> 99% *nix. :)
[06:58:42] <A-L-P-H-A> winxp sp2. I'm spishu.
[06:59:31] <Phydbleep> XP/XP-Lite/LiteStep/Cygwin on this box.
[06:59:35] <ValarQ> i don't run unix on my 8bit machines, otherwise it's unix
[07:00:22] <ValarQ> or mint, gnu/linux, bsd and solaris to be exact
[07:01:02] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has the misfortune to deal with a couple of SCO OpenServer boxes from time to time.
[07:02:33] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is of to grab some breakfast
[07:05:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm off. sleep time
[07:05:50] <A-L-P-H-A> ciao
[09:46:08] <Phydbleep> Morning anonimasu :)
[09:53:11] <jacky^> morning
[09:54:09] <ValarQ> g'day :)
[09:54:18] <jacky^> hi ValarQ
[09:55:53] <jacky^> ValarQ: have you experience in electronic circuits ?
[09:56:11] <ValarQ> jacky^: some experience
[09:56:38] <jacky^> i would like to question you a hing
[09:56:43] <jacky^> thing*
[09:57:03] <ValarQ> sure, go ahead
[09:57:24] <jacky^> i build a small circuit to connect 3 optoswitch , i'm also using an IC 7432
[09:57:49] <jacky^> testing the circuit with an external power supply 5 V it work fine
[09:58:20] <jacky^> actually i would use the atx pc 5v to being powered the circuit
[09:58:43] <jacky^> but the voltage i read in ouput become 8 Volts :\
[09:58:53] <ValarQ> hmm
[09:59:09] <jacky^> if i touch the ic to the under side it work fine
[09:59:25] <jacky^> i think ground is not sufficent, maybe..
[09:59:31] <ValarQ> what technology?
[09:59:40] <jacky^> ttl 7432
[10:00:03] <ValarQ> not HCT or HC then?
[10:00:08] <jacky^> maybe should i insert a capacitor in some way
[10:00:36] <jacky^> sorry, i don't know what you mean with HCT or HC :\
[10:00:51] <ValarQ> 74HC32, 74HCT32, etc
[10:00:56] <jacky^> ah..
[10:01:01] <jacky^> md7432j
[10:01:13] <jacky^> the only i found here
[10:01:28] <ValarQ> hmm
[10:02:04] <jacky^> the strange thing, why if i use external power supply work at 5V in out ?
[10:02:37] <jacky^> instead i have about 8 with atx
[10:03:03] <jacky^> and if i test, the voltage +- is 4,7 V
[10:05:00] <ValarQ> i don't know actually
[10:05:08] <jacky^> i suppose 8 V is too much high value for parallel port input
[10:05:32] <jacky^> it burn, right ?
[10:05:49] <ValarQ> do you have something between the optoswitch and the parallel port?
[10:06:12] <jacky^> the cable, about 1 mt
[10:06:14] <ValarQ> yeah, i wouldn't feed my parport with 8V
[10:06:23] <jacky^> ok
[10:06:48] <jacky^> uhmm..
[10:07:04] <ValarQ> jacky^: maybe you need to have something between
[10:07:09] <jacky^> if i use a zener 5,1 V ..
[10:07:32] <jacky^> between there are 2 IC 7432
[10:07:35] <ValarQ> jacky^: the parport isn't meant to deliever much current (maybe not enough for the optos)
[10:07:50] <jacky^> because i'm using 9 optointerrupter
[10:07:56] <jacky^> 3 for axis
[10:08:15] <ValarQ> im using a 74LS245 between my port and my optos
[10:08:34] <jacky^> how many opto ?
[10:08:54] <ValarQ> 16 in 2 ic:s
[10:09:00] <jacky^> wow
[10:10:45] <jacky^> now i make a test with a zener.. let's see
[10:11:12] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is using PC847
[10:11:26] <jacky^> :-)
[10:12:06] <ValarQ> and high tech extremely fast 74LS circuits :)
[10:12:52] <jacky^> nice
[10:13:15] <jacky^> i'm a totaly newbie :\
[10:13:45] <ValarQ> can't say i'm very good at these things myself
[10:14:01] <ValarQ> but i know my limits and stay away from CMOS stuff and alike
[10:14:10] <jacky^> hehe
[10:24:18] <Phydbleep> jacky^: Try clamping that 8V output to ground thru a 10k resistor and then read the voltage...
[10:24:32] <jacky^> hi Phydbleep :-)
[10:24:55] <jacky^> ok, will try now
[10:26:42] <jacky^> Phydbleep: it work
[10:26:57] <Phydbleep> 5V out now?
[10:27:08] <jacky^> about 4,3
[10:27:22] <jacky^> go up anyway i think
[10:28:02] <Phydbleep> add a 1k in series to make that 11k
[10:28:13] <jacky^> ok
[10:28:55] <ValarQ> hello mr bleep :)
[10:29:30] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: Hey, BLEEP you too buddy. <jk> :)
[10:30:12] <ValarQ> jk?
[10:30:23] <Phydbleep> <joke> :)
[10:30:40] <ValarQ> ah
[10:30:59] <Phydbleep> jacky^: ~4.7V now?
[10:31:27] <jacky^> yes, seem work
[10:31:33] <ValarQ> are you experienced with HAL in emc2?
[10:31:35] <jacky^> :D thanks
[10:31:45] <jacky^> great Phydbleep :-)
[10:32:04] <Phydbleep> jacky^: `11.8k for 5V if I remember right. :)
[10:32:05] <ValarQ> i'm trying to control which parport pins it writes to
[10:32:21] <jacky^> hehe ;)
[10:33:05] <Phydbleep> jacky^: It's been ~20 years since the last time I had to design a full ttl board. :)
[10:33:20] <jacky^> wow
[10:33:30] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: Were you asking me about emc2/hal?
[10:33:50] <jacky^> this i my first week i've seen the ttl ic :\
[10:34:43] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. Just wait.. If you have to use ttl chips enough you'll start to think in binary. :)
[10:34:54] <jacky^> i would like to learn more about, it seem to me very interesting argument
[10:35:03] <jacky^> :-)
[10:36:45] <jacky^> i buyed some more ic 7432 so, i can follow some tutorial to experiment around
[10:36:58] <jacky^> will see..
[10:38:55] <Phydbleep> lets see.. 7404 is a hex inverter, 7406 is a hex buffer, 7490/7493 are BCD counters..
[10:39:34] <jacky^> :D
[10:41:12] <Phydbleep> What's really scary is the fact that in a box about the size of a refrigerator you could build an all TTL machine controller that understands g-code. :)
[10:42:30] <jacky^> hehehe
[10:42:47] <Phydbleep> jacky^:BTW.. serial>parallel/parallel>serial conversions are carried out with 'shift register' chips..
[10:43:28] <jacky^> uhmm good notice
[10:43:33] <jacky^> i'm new to this
[10:43:49] <ValarQ> Phydbleep: yeah, i think i was
[10:44:57] <ValarQ> Phydbleep: i'm trying to find out what changes are necesary to use the parport with my hardware
[10:45:31] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep knows nothing about emc2 yet and is still trying to scrape together enough junque to build a mill.
[10:45:48] <ValarQ> ok
[10:46:25] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: I think there's a hal.ini for that.
[10:47:16] <ValarQ> yeah, but i'm not sure it is enough
[10:48:03] <ValarQ> maybe i should change my hardware instead...
[10:48:28] <Phydbleep> ValarQ: Making the hardware fit the standard is a good thing. :)
[10:48:55] <ValarQ> yeah, i was thinking that :)
[10:49:04] <ValarQ> i don't know how i _should_ work thought
[10:49:30] <ValarQ> but i got to write a nibble to control the engine, right?
[10:50:47] <Phydbleep> Dunno.. I guess you'll have to wait till one of the gurus shows up with the clue-hammer. :)
[11:20:46] <ValarQ> :)
[12:51:34] <rayh> Hi Paul. How you doing today?
[12:53:39] <paul_c> Trying to get to grips with tp/tc .c
[13:08:00] <rayh> quicksand?
[13:12:37] <paul_c> Some of it is really nasty....
[13:13:21] <paul_c> quaternions are not the best things to use in kernel space.
[13:13:36] <paul_c> This code should be light and fast.
[13:16:28] <rayh> Till was talking about quaternions a couple years ago.
[13:21:27] <paul_c> For visualization & rendering, sure, use quaternions...
[13:22:21] <paul_c> but in a trajectory planner ?
[13:22:23] <ValarQ> quaternions?
[13:22:43] <paul_c> It does limit the number of axis you can have.
[13:23:10] <anonimasu> heh
[13:23:14] <anonimasu> paul_c: how is it going?
[13:23:24] <paul_c> AAARRRRGGGGn
[13:23:34] <anonimasu> * anonimasu punches paul
[13:23:36] <anonimasu> :D
[13:23:49] <paul_c> anonimasu: You play pool ?
[13:24:06] <anonimasu> not very often
[13:24:15] <paul_c> left ball, right pocket.
[13:24:33] <paul_c> (knee to groin)
[13:24:39] <ValarQ> what the heck?
[13:24:43] <anonimasu> heh
[13:25:00] <anonimasu> :/
[13:25:03] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is having a hard time following these cnc discutions
[13:25:55] <paul_c> ValarQ: Quaternions are a way of describing a vector in 3D space
[13:26:04] <ValarQ> ok
[13:26:29] <anonimasu> paul_c: I hope to get into the math about trajectory planning, as soon as my workload decreses
[13:26:32] <anonimasu> :)
[13:26:39] <paul_c> They allow you to do things like rotations & scaling by hiding the real ugly math in a library.
[13:27:21] <paul_c> anonimasu: Thought you were doing Qt.
[13:27:44] <ValarQ> paul_c: what would be better to use in kernelspace then?
[13:28:10] <paul_c> integers.
[13:30:29] <ValarQ> hmm
[13:31:18] <anonimasu> paul_c: oh, that also..
[13:31:25] <anonimasu> paul_c: but I've just read a page of the book
[13:31:29] <paul_c> floating point math in kernel space is a bad idea at the best of times - Using complex numbers is just plain insanity.
[13:37:40] <anonimasu> paul_c: just been working lately
[13:37:46] <anonimasu> 12-14 hour workdays :)
[13:38:57] <ValarQ> oh, thats fun
[13:39:50] <ValarQ> i know, i was a sergeant in the swedish navy
[13:40:38] <ValarQ> could be more that 14 hours workday there :/
[13:41:01] <anonimasu> ValarQ: hm, I am swedish too :)
[13:41:21] <ValarQ> oh, where do you live?
[13:41:27] <anonimasu> close to lule�
[13:41:47] <ValarQ> ok, i live 20km from Kalmar
[13:41:59] <anonimasu> ok
[13:42:40] <ValarQ> i lived in Karlskrona when i worked for the military
[14:00:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[14:53:22] <anonimasu> iab
[15:37:32] <SWP_Away> I wonder if this is applicable to the TP issues: ftp://ftp.cs.wisc.edu/Approx/smooth.pdf
[15:38:00] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[15:41:16] <anonimasu> perhaps
[15:41:34] <SWPadnos> It's hard for me to tell - I get lost somewhere after the word "Introduction" :)
[15:46:17] <steve_stallings> I get lost IMMEDIATELY after the word Introduction. Les, where are you???
[15:46:53] <SWPadnos> (I think I had him up through "Schoenberg")
[15:49:19] <anonimasu> hehe
[15:49:37] <anonimasu> *glues togther a power supply
[16:28:21] <SWPadnos> steve_stallings: I've got a simple transformer questio - got a sec?
[16:29:01] <ValarQ> hello Padnos
[16:29:10] <SWPadnos> Hiya ValarQ
[16:29:21] <SWPadnos> It's Steve, BTW
[16:29:33] <ValarQ> ok
[16:30:46] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is studying the HAL documentation from the cvs
[17:46:10] <SWPadnos> hey there - I've got a simple transformer question - any takers?
[17:49:02] <A-L-P-H-A> ??
[17:49:08] <A-L-P-H-A> and the answer is 42
[17:49:21] <SWPadnos> I knew that - do you want to hear the question? :)
[17:49:38] <A-L-P-H-A> no, not really. but I guess I have too.
[17:50:11] <SWPadnos> (even though the universe will cease to exist if we know both at the same time)
[17:50:39] <SWPadnos> It's just abour derating when using a transformer at a different voltage than it was designed for
[17:50:42] <SWPadnos> about
[17:50:58] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[17:51:10] <SWPadnos> I can wait :)
[17:51:17] <A-L-P-H-A> like, drop 120v in, to like 60vac in.
[17:51:24] <A-L-P-H-A> would it like double the amp rating?
[17:52:16] <SWPadnos> no - like, use a 575:115V transformer as a 120:24V, what happens to the kVA rating?
[17:52:43] <SWPadnos> I'm assuming that it goes down proportionally to the voltage, since the current rating stays the same
[17:53:04] <SWPadnos> (so a 100VA 575V tansformer would be roughly a 20VA 120V transformer)
[17:54:57] <A-L-P-H-A> perhaps best asked in #electronics
[17:55:04] <A-L-P-H-A> or wikipedia.
[17:55:07] <SWPadnos> possibly
[18:01:35] <SWPadnos> they don't seem to be listening :)
[18:05:17] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, from what I remember from highschool electronics.
[18:05:40] <A-L-P-H-A> it's just the windings that that matter to get the ratio. and the amp rating stays the same
[18:06:02] <A-L-P-H-A> so your 5:1 transformer would do just that.
[18:06:13] <A-L-P-H-A> so 120VAC in, would be 24VAC out.
[18:06:36] <SWPadnos> right - That's what I remember from college electrical engineering. :) I was just checking to see if theory and practice happen to be the same in this case
[18:07:20] <A-L-P-H-A> are you making a transformer?
[18:07:50] <SWPadnos> no - thinking of buying some cheap ones off eBay, but they're 575:115 @ 100 VA
[18:08:11] <SWPadnos> I only need the 20 or so that I expect to get at 120:24, but I wanted to check that
[18:11:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I dunno what the 100VA means though
[18:11:32] <A-L-P-H-A> that's my problem
[18:11:40] <SWPadnos> 100 Volt-Amps power rating
[18:11:47] <SWPadnos> or 0.100 kVA
[18:12:01] <SWPadnos> it's the AC equivalent of watts
[18:12:07] <robin_sz> almost
[18:12:14] <robin_sz> but not quite
[18:12:18] <SWPadnos> AC analog then - how's that?
[18:12:23] <robin_sz> mmm ....
[18:12:28] <A-L-P-H-A> so if I'm pumping 575VAC into it, I should only be using ~.2 AMPS?
[18:12:33] <SWPadnos> right
[18:12:37] <robin_sz> mmmm ...
[18:12:41] <SWPadnos> and 1A on the output, roughly
[18:12:49] <robin_sz> is now a good time to mention power factor?
[18:13:00] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[18:13:05] <A-L-P-H-A> P = IR^2 ?
[18:13:08] <SWPadnos> not necessary - I know about all that (conversion between W and VA isn't 1:1)
[18:13:16] <robin_sz> OK
[18:13:17] <cradek> p = i^2r
[18:13:46] <A-L-P-H-A> damn you people... I want to go into the shop and machine something, but this conversation I'll learn something.
[18:13:55] <robin_sz> mmm ... p = i^2 are * sin theta
[18:14:09] <cradek> haha
[18:14:22] <SWPadnos> right - P = I^2 * R, and since I want the P in the core to remain the same, I can only use the same I in the primary and secondsry, resulting in the VA (= V * I, AC) being proportional to the primary voltage
[18:14:24] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: in simple terms, in a resitive load, its a power factor of 1
[18:14:46] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: in ac, some loads are not pure resitive
[18:14:59] <SWPadnos> like spindle motors and contactor coils :)
[18:15:04] <robin_sz> so they have say, 10 amps flowing at 250v
[18:15:23] <A-L-P-H-A> aren't we focusing on more of the transformer?
[18:15:24] <robin_sz> but it only devlelops say, 2000w not 2500w in the load
[18:15:43] <robin_sz> becuase the load is reactive in some way ...
[18:16:31] <robin_sz> if you measure the lag between the voltage and current in angular terms and take the cosine, you get the right factor
[18:16:36] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj don't fail me now.
[18:16:44] <robin_sz> typically assume motors and stuff are about 0.8
[18:16:57] <SWPadnos> I was focusing on the transformer :)
[18:17:17] <robin_sz> so ... for a 2kw motor you need a 2.5KVA transformer for example
[18:17:21] <SWPadnos> Though this does bring up another question about overload current selection
[18:17:27] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:17:40] <SWPadnos> I have a Bridgeport with a 2HP spindle
[18:17:47] <SWPadnos> this is roughly 1500 W
[18:17:55] <robin_sz> right
[18:18:06] <robin_sz> bet it pulls .. 10, 15A on a cold start?
[18:18:07] <SWPadnos> on 240V 3-phase, that's roughly 4 A
[18:18:38] <SWPadnos> the overloads I have are class 10, so they'll handle overcurrent for 10 seconds before shutting down
[18:18:46] <robin_sz> right
[18:18:56] <robin_sz> what you need is an invertor :)
[18:18:57] <SWPadnos> But, what is the general rule for setting the overload?
[18:19:06] <SWPadnos> 100% of expected load
[18:19:11] <SWPadnos> 95%, 110%, etc.
[18:19:22] <robin_sz> mmm. choose one that doesnt trip annoyingly all the time :)
[18:19:47] <rayh> The answer depends on the service factor of the motor you have.
[18:19:55] <SWPadnos> when I'm machining with 1.5" roughing cutters, or 1/4" ball endmills? :)
[18:20:20] <SWPadnos> Not sure - it's a Bridgeport motor, so I would assume between 0.8 and 0.9
[18:20:39] <rayh> Nameplate should show it.
[18:20:39] <SWPadnos> (oops - service factor - is that the same as power factor?)
[18:20:40] <robin_sz> it depends what you want the cutout to do
[18:20:52] <robin_sz> save the motor from a smoky death
[18:21:05] <rayh> No. It is a rating of the ability of the motor to handle rated load.
[18:21:10] <robin_sz> ot stop when your teeny weeny cutter takes to big a bite
[18:21:42] <robin_sz> power factor of 0.8 is a good rule of thumb for motors
[18:21:45] <rayh> Farm and industrial duty motors are commonly rated 115 -125 %
[18:22:01] <robin_sz> right ..
[18:22:06] <SWPadnos> the nameplate doesn't say
[18:22:19] <SWPadnos> (I didn't see a S.F or service factor item)
[18:22:33] <rayh> Does nameplate spec current
[18:22:37] <SWPadnos> 4A
[18:22:53] <SWPadnos> and it's a 1.5 HP (I thought it was 2)
[18:23:08] <rayh> I'd be willing to be that you'd be safe at 4.4 amp
[18:23:22] <robin_sz> sigh .. .DXF files .. so many versions of the "standard"
[18:23:37] <SWPadnos> Thanks - is the general rule of thumb "roughly 10% over"?
[18:23:58] <robin_sz> its fairly arbitary ...
[18:24:09] <robin_sz> depends on how hot your shop is for a start
[18:24:20] <SWPadnos> cool in winter, warm in summer :)
[18:24:29] <robin_sz> heh
[18:24:49] <SWPadnos> actually, friggin cold in winter, and pretty hot in summer
[18:24:50] <robin_sz> liek rayh says, you'll be fine with it set at about 4.4A probably
[18:25:07] <robin_sz> theres not so much of a science to it as trying it and seeing
[18:25:18] <SWPadnos> cool - I'll set up a pushbutton starting system sometime soon
[18:25:28] <robin_sz> my advice would be to get an invertor
[18:25:41] <SWPadnos> (then replace that with relays when the CNC is operational)
[18:25:47] <SWPadnos> a VFD?
[18:25:49] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:25:55] <robin_sz> best thing I ever bought
[18:26:01] <SWPadnos> I have a 3 HP mitsubishi - I just haven't connected it
[18:26:15] <robin_sz> fit it now, you'll never look back
[18:26:30] <SWPadnos> $121 delivered - seemed like a good deal :)
[18:26:36] <robin_sz> I bought one to driove my 3phase, 2hp lathe from single phase
[18:26:38] <SWPadnos> (new in box, with manuals)
[18:27:08] <robin_sz> I ended up buying 3phase-tp-3phase ones for the saw, drill, compressor ...
[18:27:53] <robin_sz> the smooth start, low startup currents, dc injection braking, overload protection ...
[18:27:54] <robin_sz> etc etc
[18:28:42] <robin_sz> just the most wonderful way to run motors, I cant imagine going back to the old "direct on line" thump bang massive current way
[18:28:53] <SWPadnos> argh - chatzilla has an annoying bug
[18:29:08] <SWPadnos> if you hit up-arrow, then right-arrow, it loses the line you're typing
[18:29:14] <robin_sz> heh
[18:29:29] <SWPadnos> I've tried to mention my 5HP rotary phase converter 3 times already
[18:29:49] <robin_sz> yuck :)
[18:30:42] <robin_sz> seriously, after a VFD .. a rotary makes as much sense as having a traction engine outside and a lot of shafts with big leather belts to each machine :)
[18:31:23] <SWPadnos> heh - I needed the converter so I could make the machine work - I bought the VFD afterwards
[18:31:30] <robin_sz> yeah.
[18:31:42] <SWPadnos> I intend to use that for spindle speed control within EMC
[18:31:53] <robin_sz> right
[18:32:17] <robin_sz> put it on the mill, I gurantee you'll buy another within days :)
[18:32:36] <SWPadnos> for the saw? :)
[18:32:49] <robin_sz> for the lathe, saw, whatever
[18:33:02] <SWPadnos> One day I hope to have a lathe ... sigh ...
[18:33:31] <robin_sz> I can run up a 10" 4 jaw chuck to silly rpm from a 13amp single phase socket on the lathe
[18:33:59] <robin_sz> with the old 3phase setup on the lathe, it pulled crazy current for extended periods when swinging big iron
[18:34:09] <robin_sz> this just slowly ramps it up .. its sweet.
[18:35:17] <SWPadnos> yeah - I'm sure the slow start is a real benefit
[18:35:33] <robin_sz> and on a lathe, the DC injection braking is kewl too
[18:36:30] <ValarQ> hello folks
[18:36:34] <robin_sz> being able to slam it in reverse from full speed is fun .. it just slowly ramps down, then ramps up the other way :)
[18:37:05] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:37:07] <ValarQ> is there some standard (good) way to control stepengines from a parport?
[18:37:26] <SWPadnos> How do you mean?
[18:37:26] <ValarQ> i'm asking because i'm thinking about redesigning my hardware
[18:37:52] <cradek> step/dir is the typical standard
[18:37:54] <ValarQ> use the lower 4 bits for the engine and the higher 4 to select engine etc
[18:38:00] <robin_sz> ick.
[18:38:04] <ValarQ> cradek: to control that in hw?
[18:38:21] <SWPadnos> are you making a step rate generator, and connecting it to the parallel port?
[18:38:22] <cradek> ValarQ: maybe I don't understand your question. You're designing stepper motor drivers for use with emc?
[18:38:24] <robin_sz> what do you mean by "step engine" ?
[18:38:40] <ValarQ> cradek: no, now it's the hardware part
[18:38:49] <robin_sz> I suspect he means step pulse generators
[18:39:19] <ValarQ> nah, i'm talking about the sort of electrical engines that you feed with pulses
[18:39:34] <SWPadnos> MEMS?
[18:39:38] <robin_sz> hmmm
[18:39:48] <robin_sz> he DOES mean stepper motr drives then
[18:39:53] <cradek> ValarQ: I don't understand "electrical engines"
[18:40:05] <SWPadnos> cradek: motors? :)
[18:40:16] <ValarQ> heh
[18:40:25] <ValarQ> * ValarQ is a nonnative english speaker
[18:40:42] <cradek> that's fine, lots of them here
[18:40:59] <SWPadnos> ValarQ: what exactly are you designing your hardware to do?
[18:41:05] <ValarQ> what is the proper word then?
[18:41:08] <robin_sz> ValarQ: the elctricla thing that takes in pulses and makes the current flow in the motor ... the thing between the motor and the computer ... we call that a "stepper motor drive" .. like the Geckodrive G201 for example
[18:41:11] <cradek> you are making a device that takes pulses from emc that contains a power supply and drives the motor?
[18:41:15] <SWPadnos> (ie, what does it get from the computer, and what does it output?)
[18:41:39] <ValarQ> cradek: yes
[18:42:03] <cradek> ValarQ: then the normal way is to have two bits per axis: one is the direction and one is a "step" pulse
[18:42:12] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[18:42:23] <SWPadnos> so your driver needs either step and direction signals, or it needs two outputs that are in quadrature, right?
[18:42:24] <ValarQ> cradek: and do the rest in hardware?
[18:42:34] <cradek> ValarQ: yes, everything else is in hardware
[18:42:36] <robin_sz> yeah
[18:42:46] <ValarQ> ok, then i get it
[18:43:00] <cradek> ValarQ: there are other ways, but if you are making new equipment you will want to use step/dir
[18:43:06] <ValarQ> i made some other own weird variant on my own
[18:43:20] <robin_sz> ValarQ: unless you have very special motors, it is easier and cheaper to buy a pre-built drive
[18:43:23] <SWPadnos> the step and direction (or quadrature) signals are generated by stepgen (or is it pulsegen?)
[18:43:29] <cradek> some chips (for example L297) take exactly step/dir inputs
[18:44:01] <SWPadnos> It's stepgen
[18:44:08] <robin_sz> ValarQ: maybe you have fun building the drive, thats fine, enjoy the fun, but it usually costs more than say a Xylotex or Geckodrive
[18:44:24] <robin_sz> so be sure you know WHY you are building your own
[18:44:37] <websys> Anyone know anything about pipe threads?
[18:44:39] <cradek> I agree that is good advice, even though I built my own
[18:44:47] <cradek> websys: they're tapered and irritating?
[18:45:20] <SWPadnos> websys: they're used to connect pipes ;)
[18:45:33] <websys> lol - yes but I need major/minor/pithc diameters for a 1.25-11.5 NPT
[18:46:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.pennusa.com/pennpage/directory/spec/b1201s.htm
[18:46:38] <websys> TY - just what I needed
[18:46:41] <ValarQ> is there some quite simple way to replace the parport dir/step code in hal if i wan't to play around?
[18:46:54] <robin_sz> yes
[18:46:54] <SWPadnos> edit components/stepgen.c
[18:47:04] <cradek> ValarQ: what interface scheme did you use?
[18:47:05] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: not hal_parport.c?
[18:47:12] <SWPadnos> nope
[18:47:23] <ValarQ> cradek: interface scheme?
[18:47:28] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: ok
[18:47:31] <SWPadnos> hal_parport is just a shim between the port and the HAL pins
[18:47:40] <robin_sz> ValarQ: step/direction is the univerals standard ... 95% of drives use that
[18:47:42] <cradek> ValarQ: what kind of signals are between the parallel port and your stepper driver?
[18:47:43] <SWPadnos> you want to control what gets output, not how it gets there
[18:48:17] <ValarQ> cradek: i'm using my own stuff with a couple of opto switches and 74LS245
[18:48:45] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: yeah, thats right, thanks
[18:48:54] <cradek> ValarQ: I mean, what kind of signals are needed to make a motor turn?
[18:49:20] <ValarQ> cradek: i just ran a funny little sequence i found in some paper :)
[18:49:47] <cradek> so do you have one parallel port bit per motor winding?
[18:50:02] <ValarQ> cradek: something like that
[18:50:23] <cradek> ValarQ: ah, that's one of the things emc1 supports; I don't know if emc2 supports it yet.
[18:50:35] <SWPadnos> stepgen has a phase output mode
[18:50:51] <ValarQ> ah, so there is a simple way then...
[18:50:52] <SWPadnos> so that's why you wanted the selector / output - you need more bits :)
[18:51:33] <cradek> there are enough bits for 3 axes
[18:51:39] <SWPadnos> it's probably a lot easier to add a second parallel port and just have 4 bits per motor than it is to design an external latch circuit
[18:51:57] <SWPadnos> plus it'll be a lot faster
[18:51:57] <ValarQ> i was thinking about connecting more stuff on it but i come to understand that it is simply stupid
[18:52:27] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: i have already designed an extern latch circuit :P
[18:52:36] <SWPadnos> then that's probably easier :)
[18:52:43] <cradek> ValarQ: a big advantage to step/dir is on one port, you can have 4 axes with 4 bits leftover for digital IO (estop, spindle control)
[18:52:54] <ValarQ> i'm thinking about skipping that for my miller/driller machine thought
[18:53:10] <ValarQ> cradek: yeah, thats my main reason for asking
[18:54:12] <ValarQ> but i believe those circuit were more expensive than my breakfast :(
[18:54:39] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc
[18:54:48] <cradek> on my web page is a link to free circuit boards for L297/L298
[18:55:05] <cradek> these chips take step/dir and control medium sized stepper motors directly
[18:55:41] <ValarQ> nice page
[18:55:49] <cradek> thank you
[19:01:03] <ValarQ> looks better than my own anyway :)
[19:01:17] <cradek> they perform very well and the parts are inexpensive
[19:04:11] <ValarQ> i didn't have a very good pcb-editor when i made my card
[19:04:29] <robin_sz> eagle is good,
[19:04:30] <ValarQ> couldn't find any good and cheap for unix
[19:04:34] <robin_sz> and free for small cards
[19:04:35] <cradek> you can use Eagle for free to make small boards
[19:04:42] <robin_sz> eagle runs on linux
[19:04:44] <cradek> it runs on linux and windows both
[19:04:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz ndos
[19:04:50] <robin_sz> nods.
[19:04:53] <cradek> yeah, what he says
[19:05:04] <ValarQ> ok, never heard of it before
[19:05:08] <robin_sz> http://www.cadsoft.de/
[19:05:17] <robin_sz> very very good tool
[19:05:27] <robin_sz> oh, and Mac OSX too now :)
[19:05:29] <cradek> agree
[19:06:05] <cradek> robin_sz: what is this Mac? I've never heard of it
[19:06:06] <ValarQ> i made my own pcb-editor, fun project but the cards didn't look that good
[19:06:12] <ValarQ> completely free thought :)
[19:06:16] <robin_sz> cradek: eagle ...
[19:06:28] <robin_sz> heh
[19:06:30] <cradek> ValarQ: I used to draw boards making traces with polylines in autocad!
[19:06:51] <robin_sz> cradek: I know, eagle just like making systems for people on weird OS's :)
[19:06:55] <ValarQ> cradek: i haven't tried autocad
[19:07:21] <robin_sz> cradek: theres a plan9 version due soon as they finish the BeOS port
[19:07:32] <ValarQ> cradek: have a look at my crap then http://arda.no-ip.org/crap ;)
[19:07:38] <cradek> robin_sz: how about HP-UX and rocky mountain basic?
[19:07:50] <robin_sz> cradek: nah, too mainstream
[19:08:02] <cradek> crapplication! hahahaha
[19:08:38] <ValarQ> cradek: i had to call it something :)
[19:09:00] <cradek> ValarQ: it looks nice
[19:09:09] <ValarQ> cradek: and i have used it to create some cards so it isn't totaly crap :)
[19:09:31] <robin_sz> ValarQ: swedish?
[19:09:39] <ValarQ> robin_sz: no, swedish locale
[19:09:53] <ValarQ> robin_sz: my program doesn't contain any swedish strings
[19:10:08] <robin_sz> 'k
[19:10:13] <robin_sz> just curious :)
[19:10:39] <cradek> Welcome to Vq's homepage
[19:10:39] <cradek> This webpage is best viewed with a browser.
[19:10:42] <ValarQ> i did some filter to export the circuit holes to some heidenhein code
[19:10:45] <cradek> I like your web style
[19:10:50] <ValarQ> cradek: thanks :)
[19:11:24] <robin_sz> eagke exports wotsit drill progerams ...
[19:11:29] <robin_sz> excellon
[19:11:41] <robin_sz> its pretty easy to turn those into gcode
[19:11:45] <ValarQ> one doesn't get kicked for mention of heidenhein here?
[19:11:59] <robin_sz> some CNC controls can run excellon natively
[19:12:14] <robin_sz> hey, now theres an interpreter we could do for emc
[19:12:24] <cradek> there are Eagle scripts available for exporting g-code
[19:12:51] <cradek> I use Eagle to directly generate g-code
[19:13:16] <robin_sz> yeah, but you are a prevert :) ... weve seen what you do to circuit boards ;)
[19:13:35] <ValarQ> heh
[19:13:39] <cradek> I am?
[19:13:53] <robin_sz> did you ever get that air spindle by the way?
[19:14:19] <ValarQ> oh, eagle is distributed in x86 binary form
[19:14:37] <robin_sz> yeah, free for small projects .. not open source
[19:14:39] <cradek> nope, and I need to make a pulley to get up over 10krpm
[19:14:54] <cradek> the pulley I need to make is too big for my lathe...
[19:15:02] <robin_sz> ValarQ: get cradek to show you his pcb stuff some day ... its .. wild :)
[19:15:08] <robin_sz> right
[19:15:16] <Phydbleep> cradek: Go 2-stage?
[19:15:33] <cradek> Phydbleep: no, get a bigger lathe
[19:15:37] <cradek> Phydbleep: I have only a sherline
[19:15:42] <robin_sz> right answer :)
[19:15:52] <Phydbleep> cradek: How big of a pulley do you need?
[19:16:28] <robin_sz> * robin_sz makes a hole in his finger
[19:16:35] <robin_sz> ahh .. thats better
[19:17:04] <cradek> Phydbleep: I don't remember exactly - something like 3.5 inch dia
[19:17:09] <cradek> the drawing is at home
[19:17:35] <Phydbleep> cradek: ROFL.. OK.. That'd be easy.. I've got a 10" Logan here. :)
[19:17:45] <cradek> with that I should be able to get almost 20krpm and cut traces at 20ipm
[19:18:00] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: you mean 5" :)
[19:18:01] <cradek> Phydbleep: I know it's easy for a real lathe...
[19:18:09] <Phydbleep> cradek: Do you remember the center bore dia?
[19:18:15] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: :)
[19:18:17] <alex_joni> g'evening
[19:18:20] <alex_joni> yo Fido
[19:18:31] <cradek> Phydbleep: 1/4 inch I think
[19:18:45] <cradek> maybe 3/8
[19:18:49] <cradek> very small
[19:18:54] <alex_joni> hey chris
[19:18:56] <Phydbleep> cradek: AH!.. Seweing macine parts. :)
[19:19:00] <alex_joni> all well?
[19:19:01] <Phydbleep> Sewing
[19:19:15] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/cnc/spindle-mount.jpg
[19:19:24] <cradek> it's the pulley to go on the motor
[19:19:37] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Yeah, Cept for the batteries in this fscking keyboard.
[19:19:49] <cradek> the front one is newly made, and it has the smallest possible diameter
[19:20:00] <cradek> I made that one easily, but I can't make one large enough for the back.
[19:21:40] <cradek> I have already ground a tool to make the correct V track for the belt
[19:22:08] <Phydbleep> cradek: Crap.. I've seen a pulley that size/bore recently.. Hang on a sec..
[19:22:26] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep runs to the shop to rummage in the pulley box.
[19:22:28] <cradek> Phydbleep: I would want two V cuts on it at different diameters
[19:22:40] <cradek> Phydbleep: one for 1:1 gearing and one for "as fast as possible"
[19:23:03] <Phydbleep> That's easy.. 2 pulleys stacked..
[19:23:19] <cradek> true enough
[19:29:07] <Phydbleep> cradek: What's that belt? ~ 3/16" (5mm) wide?
[19:29:44] <cradek> yes it's something like that - pretty small
[19:29:52] <cradek> I wish I had my drawing here
[19:31:29] <cradek> ok, that computer is on, let me see if I can find the dxf
[19:31:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thinks.. Cut the pulley from 3/8" plate, pin it to a hub then turn it as a unit.
[19:32:03] <cradek> I'm sure I have Al bar big enough
[19:34:13] <cradek> ... it just won't swing over the carriage on my lathe
[19:34:23] <cradek> maybe I should make a headstock riser block
[19:34:39] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is thinking about modular parts that can be replaced/exchanged.
[19:36:45] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. Either that or a pair of 3-step cone pulleys..
[19:37:04] <cradek> well the front one (smaller diameter, bigger bore) is done
[19:37:24] <cradek> I want the back one to have the same spacing between the grooves so I can easily move the belt
[19:37:33] <cradek> the motor mount is made to let the motor slide back and forward
[19:37:47] <cradek> Phydbleep: do you have autocad?
[19:38:19] <Phydbleep> cradek: Nope.. Dont even have a pyr8 copy stashed anywhere.
[19:38:29] <Phydbleep> :)
[19:38:37] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: synergy is pretty decent on autocad stuff
[19:39:11] <Phydbleep> cradek: I have Open-FX so I 'should' be able to view a standard .dxf
[19:39:43] <cradek> all I have right now is the dwg - let me see if autocad will run in qemu over the internet
[19:40:42] <cradek> nope, this won't work...
[19:40:49] <cradek> well, I'll show you later.
[19:41:28] <ValarQ> boohoo, i can't use emc1 with my 2.6 kernel :(
[19:41:31] <Phydbleep> cradek: Don't worry about it right now, It'll be tommorow before I could get stock anyway. :)
[19:41:47] <alex_joni> ValarQ: hello
[19:41:55] <alex_joni> you were on the search for HAL stuff?
[19:42:01] <ValarQ> alex_joni: hello
[19:42:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just read through the logs
[19:42:23] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i have been searching for alot of stuff
[19:42:28] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: He needs help with HAL<>machine I/O.
[19:42:29] <cradek> Phydbleep: oh, I was just showing you, I don't expect you to make it!
[19:43:10] <ValarQ> now i'm just playing around with all those cute hal sources
[19:43:26] <ValarQ> i like the idea of keeping it modular
[19:43:33] <Phydbleep> cradek: Damn.. And I was going to give you some g-10 and gerber files to test it with. :P
[19:43:34] <alex_joni> ValarQ: got questions?
[19:43:48] <alex_joni> iirc, I wrote one of those
[19:43:59] <cradek> Phydbleep: I can only run it with Eagle boards
[19:44:04] <ValarQ> alex_joni: you aren't sure? :)
[19:44:11] <alex_joni> ValarQ: :P
[19:44:29] <ValarQ> alex_joni: have you written a stepgen replacement?
[19:44:40] <Phydbleep> cradek: Eagle output files? I have the freeware Eagle.
[19:45:09] <cradek> Phydbleep: yeah, you would just have to send me the brd file
[19:45:29] <alex_joni> ValarQ: nope, but a driver for my board
[19:45:38] <alex_joni> and I have some HAL knowledge..
[19:45:40] <jacky^> evening all :)
[19:45:44] <ValarQ> alex_joni: ok
[19:45:46] <alex_joni> so if you got questions.. shoot
[19:45:51] <alex_joni> jacky^: hi
[19:46:03] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i could try my luck :)
[19:46:08] <jacky^> ciao alex_joni
[19:46:38] <ValarQ> alex_joni: now i wan't to modify the stepgen or parport driver to work with my simple motor interface
[19:47:30] <ValarQ> alex_joni: what i wan't to do (apparantly) is creating the step motor driver in software
[19:48:52] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i heard emc1 had support for that but i can't get it to run on linux2.6
[19:50:49] <alex_joni> ValarQ: explain
[19:51:11] <alex_joni> what do you need to output?
[19:51:23] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i control the step motor more or less directly from the parport
[19:51:47] <alex_joni> right
[19:51:51] <alex_joni> how many phases?
[19:51:53] <ValarQ> alex_joni: but i believe the parport driver uses step/dir
[19:52:10] <ValarQ> alex_joni: eh, 4 i think
[19:52:33] <alex_joni> ValarQ: both stepgen and freqgen have a LOT more way to function than on emc1
[19:52:34] <cradek> emc1 cannot build on linux kernel 2.6
[19:52:36] <alex_joni> ways
[19:52:46] <alex_joni> ValarQ: 4 phases is pretty easy
[19:53:08] <alex_joni> stepgen does that
[19:53:17] <alex_joni> one of the 15 outputs it does
[19:53:23] <alex_joni> iirc there are 15
[19:53:25] <alex_joni> lemme check
[19:53:37] <ValarQ> cradek: yeah, the makeprocess told me, it even painted it red with ansi escapesequences
[19:54:41] <cradek> wow
[19:54:42] <alex_joni> ValarQ: sorry.. only 14 ;)
[19:54:59] <jacky^> (sorry for a newbie question) after i get limit switches working, and setup properly .ini file, should the machine go automatically to home position when start ?
[19:55:05] <alex_joni> ValarQ: I suggest you read http://www.linuxcnc.org/Hal_Introduction.pdf
[19:55:20] <alex_joni> jacky^: depends on what you understand under home
[19:55:21] <cradek> jacky^: you hit the home button to home an axis
[19:55:34] <alex_joni> jacky^: you have home switches?
[19:55:52] <alex_joni> how about zero pulses on the encoders (if you have encoders)..
[19:55:52] <jacky^> alex_joni: yes, i now have home switch
[19:56:40] <alex_joni> jacky^: I suggest you read http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC2_Code_Notes.pdf
[19:56:48] <alex_joni> there's a chapter about homing in there
[19:56:56] <jacky^> ok, thanks :)
[19:57:16] <alex_joni> np
[19:57:29] <alex_joni> ValarQ: I hope that suits your need for motor drivers
[20:00:26] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i have tested it with some of my own code
[20:00:48] <alex_joni> well.. if all that you need is 4-phase output
[20:00:50] <alex_joni> it's there
[20:00:58] <alex_joni> if you need more.. you might need to change code
[20:01:12] <ValarQ> how can i use it?
[20:01:30] <ValarQ> can you give me a pointer to the source?
[20:01:40] <alex_joni> you want to use what?
[20:02:07] <ValarQ> the 4-phase type of output
[20:02:33] <alex_joni> if you want to use freqgen with another type of stepping, you need to make a copy of core_stepper.hal and standard_output.hal
[20:02:44] <alex_joni> core_stepper.hal is the one that sets up the stepper
[20:03:04] <alex_joni> can you look at the file?
[20:03:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni could explain what is going on
[20:03:37] <ValarQ> alex_joni: i'm looking at it
[20:03:51] <alex_joni> ok
[20:03:56] <alex_joni> first:
[20:04:00] <alex_joni> loadrt stepgen cfg="0 0 0"
[20:04:16] <ValarQ> yes
[20:04:17] <alex_joni> this line loads 3 stepgen modules configured as stepping type 0
[20:04:22] <alex_joni> you'd want to change that
[20:04:28] <alex_joni> loadrt stepgen cfg="0 0 0"
[20:04:49] <alex_joni> loadrt stepgen cfg="4 4 4"
[20:04:49] <alex_joni> for a stepping 4 type machine
[20:04:58] <alex_joni> if you got 3 axes
[20:05:09] <alex_joni> although not sure you can fit 12 outputs on the parport :)
[20:05:16] <alex_joni> ok.. next
[20:05:18] <ValarQ> what does the different types mean?
[20:05:34] <alex_joni> the next few lines you don't need to touch
[20:05:47] <alex_joni> ValarQ: did you look at the link I pasted for you?
[20:05:58] <alex_joni> Hal_Introduction.pdf
[20:06:00] <ValarQ> yes
[20:06:08] <alex_joni> there's a very good description of stepgen
[20:06:09] <ValarQ> i got it open in gv now
[20:06:15] <alex_joni> page 40 or so
[20:06:20] <alex_joni> with some diagrams
[20:06:56] <ValarQ> * ValarQ found it
[20:07:21] <alex_joni> now.. based on what you need.. find the stepping type that suits your needs
[20:07:55] <ValarQ> ah, phase-a etc...
[20:08:05] <alex_joni> right
[20:08:20] <ValarQ> lovely
[20:08:21] <alex_joni> in there you have the name of the hal exported pins aswell
[20:08:28] <alex_joni> now.. back to core_stepper.hal
[20:08:41] <alex_joni> see the lines..
[20:08:51] <alex_joni> # connect signals to step pulse generator outputs
[20:09:00] <alex_joni> newsig Xstep bit
[20:09:00] <alex_joni> newsig Xdir bit
[20:09:00] <alex_joni> newsig Ystep bit
[20:09:00] <alex_joni> ..
[20:09:08] <alex_joni> you need to replace those with your signals
[20:09:23] <alex_joni> call them Xphase1, Xphase2, Xphase3, etc
[20:09:37] <alex_joni> then after you have created the signals you need to link those
[20:10:00] <alex_joni> one end goes to stepgen, the other to your output driver (in your case parport, afaik)
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> so...
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> linkps stepgen.0.step Xstep
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> linkps stepgen.0.dir Xdir
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> becomes...
[20:10:29] <alex_joni> linkps stepgen.0.phase-a Xphase1
[20:11:11] <ValarQ> ok, i think i get it
[20:11:21] <alex_joni> linkps stepgen.0.phase-b Xphase2
[20:11:21] <alex_joni> ...
[20:11:21] <alex_joni> linkps stepgen.2.phase-d Zphase4
[20:11:21] <alex_joni> and the final part is done in standard_pinout.hal
[20:11:52] <ValarQ> got that one open
[20:11:58] <alex_joni> where the signals you created above get connected to your needed pins
[20:12:09] <ValarQ> :-o
[20:12:41] <ValarQ> who has invented this system?
[20:12:54] <ValarQ> i gotta buy him/her a beer :)
[20:14:02] <alex_joni> jmk did ;)
[20:14:07] <alex_joni> ValarQ: like it?
[20:14:21] <ValarQ> yeah, it's wonderful
[20:14:49] <alex_joni> heh.. people complained (and I can't disagree) that it's a bit hard to work with it
[20:15:05] <alex_joni> a gui version for the configs would be even better
[20:15:14] <alex_joni> smthg like matlab
[20:15:20] <alex_joni> nah..
[20:15:20] <alex_joni> labview
[20:15:22] <ValarQ> the documentation is heavy, but there is nothing wrong with the format
[20:15:30] <alex_joni> sorry.. I am a bit fuzzy right now
[20:16:07] <ValarQ> alex_joni: don't worry, you are still my hero :)
[20:16:20] <alex_joni> ValarQ: what for
[20:16:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for a while
[20:16:52] <alex_joni> if you got other questions.. I'll be back
[20:16:53] <ValarQ> alex_joni: explaining it to me, i could have run in circles for days
[20:17:01] <alex_joni> bye guys
[20:17:11] <ValarQ> c u
[20:51:11] <ValarQ> jacky^: problem with the isp?
[20:52:02] <jacky^> uff... :\
[20:52:12] <jacky^> tele 2 ... :(
[20:52:50] <ValarQ> ok
[20:53:02] <ValarQ> in italy?
[20:53:09] <jacky^> yes
[20:53:31] <ValarQ> i got a telia DSL connection in sweden, works pretty good actually
[20:53:45] <jacky^> uhmm..
[20:53:53] <ValarQ> they aren't the cheapest but i haven't got much problems
[20:54:07] <jacky^> in italy we have the adsl more high as price of the world !
[20:54:19] <jacky^> very bad services..
[20:54:29] <ValarQ> sounds tough
[20:55:09] <ValarQ> i think i live in the forest, and i can still aford a pretty good ADSL line
[20:55:23] <jacky^> think, here 1280 adsl for a mounth: about 40 euro in france, the same society 5 euro ! :\
[20:55:45] <jacky^> i switch to another isp for 29 euro at mounth
[20:55:45] <ValarQ> * ValarQ doesn't even know how much an euro is
[20:56:11] <jacky^> but it seem non so speed and sometime disconnect me
[20:56:40] <jacky^> an euro like a dollar + o -
[20:57:10] <SWPadnos> 1 Euro = 9.13235 SEK
[20:57:18] <ValarQ> SWPadnos: thanks
[20:57:34] <SWPadnos> sure ( http://www.x-rates.com )
[20:58:13] <ValarQ> jacky^: not that big difference then
[20:58:22] <jacky^> also in usa i heard of adsl cable for 11 $ at mounth
[20:58:38] <SWPadnos> not where I live
[20:58:43] <robin_sz> in the UK, its 25 GBP ... close enough to 40 euro a month
[20:58:45] <ValarQ> 309 SEK for telia .5Mbit/s
[20:58:47] <jacky^> no ?
[20:59:04] <SWPadnos> I pay $50/month for 2MBit down/ 256k up
[20:59:14] <robin_sz> cheaper than the UK then
[20:59:17] <jacky^> uhm
[20:59:23] <jacky^> too much high
[20:59:26] <ValarQ> on the other hand telia really deliever what i pay for
[20:59:48] <robin_sz> pizza?
[20:59:52] <SWPadnos> around the same as UK here (a llittle more - 25 GBP is about $45)
[20:59:53] <jacky^> :-)
[21:00:01] <ValarQ> robin_sz: :P
[21:00:06] <jacky^> pizza in naples :P
[21:00:15] <robin_sz> they make pizza in naples?
[21:00:16] <jacky^> the best of the world
[21:00:24] <ValarQ> i prefer kroppkakor :�
[21:00:31] <SWPadnos> Ahhh - Naples, Florida ;)
[21:00:32] <robin_sz> ooh, Im supposed to go to italy this year ...
[21:00:36] <robin_sz> to, um
[21:00:40] <jacky^> no, my girlfriend (anna) lives in naples
[21:00:54] <jacky^> sometime i go there
[21:01:03] <robin_sz> to um ...
[21:01:07] <robin_sz> florence.
[21:01:11] <robin_sz> thats it. florence.
[21:01:13] <jacky^> also gnam !
[21:01:15] <jacky^> LOL
[21:01:15] <SWPadnos> One of my sisters used to live in Firenze - that was nice
[21:01:44] <SWPadnos> I took a photo of the Duomo from her apartment balcony
[21:01:44] <jacky^> sure, florence is the city of love.. they called so
[21:01:50] <jacky^> very nice
[21:01:50] <robin_sz> Ive always wanted to go to visit the ducati factory ;)
[21:02:22] <robin_sz> I suspect it is not worth the trip now, it will be all the modern stuff
[21:02:34] <jacky^> you need a good friend before come to italy
[21:02:47] <SWPadnos> aha - the heaters in my motor contactor are only 2.2A - that could cause some problems
[21:02:52] <jacky^> a friend that can guide you in the right place
[21:03:01] <robin_sz> heh
[21:03:02] <jacky^> not spend too much
[21:03:05] <jacky^> ;-)
[21:03:24] <jacky^> i'm here, if you come, call me
[21:03:36] <robin_sz> near florence?
[21:03:52] <jacky^> i have many friend at florence
[21:03:58] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:04:05] <jacky^> actually i'm about 800 km south to florence
[21:04:36] <robin_sz> I'm supposed to go and visit some professor who studies painters, an expert in Leonardo ...
[21:04:36] <jacky^> italy is small..
[21:04:47] <jacky^> hehe
[21:04:55] <jacky^> also, np
[21:05:15] <robin_sz> I forget exactly *why* though ..
[21:05:17] <jacky^> italy is changing in the last time..
[21:05:18] <ValarQ> i couldn't go there, i would miss Sm�land to much ;)
[21:05:33] <ValarQ> http://arda.no-ip.org/smaland.jpg
[21:06:06] <robin_sz> ah, nice
[21:06:11] <ValarQ> ahh, the swedish forests :)
[21:06:15] <robin_sz> I have friends in .fi
[21:06:27] <jacky^> well
[21:06:28] <robin_sz> their summerhouse looks onto a lake like that
[21:06:43] <jacky^> wow
[21:06:48] <ValarQ> robin_sz: ah, the country of the tousand lakes :)
[21:06:52] <robin_sz> yep
[21:07:00] <robin_sz> it is nice up there ...
[21:07:23] <robin_sz> I've sailed in the Aland isles a bit too
[21:07:45] <robin_sz> right up to the swedish side
[21:07:49] <ValarQ> you been to �land?
[21:07:57] <robin_sz> severla times
[21:08:16] <jacky^> do you know capri island ?
[21:08:25] <robin_sz> from Turku, out to Marriahammina and then to the swedish side,
[21:08:27] <ValarQ> :-o
[21:08:49] <robin_sz> ValarQ: in a big boat too ...
[21:09:05] <robin_sz> ValarQ: H-boat?
[21:09:23] <ValarQ> H-boat?
[21:09:43] <robin_sz> little 6.5m yacht
[21:09:58] <robin_sz> horvennii (spelling?)
[21:10:20] <ValarQ> ok, never heard of it
[21:10:32] <ValarQ> maybe i should
[21:10:39] <robin_sz> quite popular in the nordic parts, for racing
[21:10:46] <ValarQ> * ValarQ worked in the navy
[21:11:27] <ValarQ> our, 90-boats is pretty good :)
[21:11:38] <robin_sz> www.fi.northsails.com/ h-vene.htm
[21:12:42] <robin_sz> anyway, yes, ive been to aland, and it was very very beautiful
[21:12:47] <robin_sz> oh,
[21:12:50] <robin_sz> aprt from ...
[21:12:57] <robin_sz> the mosquitoes ;)
[21:13:06] <jacky^> ValarQ: if you like take a look to my album: http://it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/album?.dir=0491&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//it.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gcsoftware2001/my_photos
[21:13:11] <robin_sz> orwhatever the hell they are
[21:13:20] <jacky^> there are some photos of capri island
[21:13:45] <ValarQ> these is the boats i worked on: http://www.3ysflj.mil.se/article.php?id=7307
[21:13:50] <robin_sz> ooh, there realy is a =n island of capri!
[21:14:04] <robin_sz> looks *nice* too .. blue see .. cliffs
[21:14:05] <jacky^> ;-)
[21:14:12] <robin_sz> blue sea even
[21:14:16] <jacky^> it's very very nice island
[21:14:35] <jacky^> a small paradise :D
[21:15:03] <ValarQ> looks hot, i wouldn't survive one hour ;)
[21:15:10] <robin_sz> looks a little like the south of france, monaco etc
[21:15:27] <jacky^> yes,
[21:15:32] <ValarQ> i think sweden is to hot in the summers
[21:15:56] <robin_sz> ahh, capri is nice ...
[21:15:57] <ValarQ> over 24�C is a pain
[21:16:51] <jacky^> in capri, you can also meet a lot of vip's :P
[21:17:12] <robin_sz> same with monaco .. it seems to attract money
[21:17:57] <robin_sz> I might be moving to Geneva later this year ... that is hot in summer too, but cold in winter
[21:18:46] <jacky^> uhmm.. they have always a strong wind there
[21:19:33] <jacky^> but also beautiful places
[21:22:39] <rayh> Got the image from arda.no. It's no wonder we have a lot of Finish, Swedish, and Norwegian folk around here.
[21:23:39] <jacky^> hi rayh :-)
[21:25:08] <rayh> I could be fishing in a place very much like that in less than 10 minutes.,
[21:27:54] <jacky^> hehe
[21:51:45] <ValarQ> rayh: i know what you mean :)
[21:55:23] <rayh> * rayh is thinking of fish for dinner.
[22:38:42] <jacky^> night