#emc | Logs for 2005-05-13

[00:01:27] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if he can fake it well enough on a stock lathe to mill a set of limit switch holders..
[00:01:34] <les> My great aunt came by and met paul when he was here
[00:01:46] <les> she is early 30's
[00:02:14] <jmkasunich> your great aunt is in her thirties?
[00:02:16] <les> he said in a peoper british accent " you are remarkably well preserved"
[00:02:18] <SWP_Away> born in early '30s or age of early 30's
[00:02:32] <les> age early 30's
[00:02:36] <les> haha
[00:02:40] <les> really
[00:02:46] <les> Paul freaked out
[00:02:55] <SWP_Away> grand-uncle likes them young, huh?
[00:03:20] <les> yeah. Me too. lat wife was 25 years younger than me.
[00:03:34] <les> last
[00:03:40] <SWP_Away> as long as you were 50 or so, that's OK
[00:03:45] <les> I am
[00:03:49] <les> heh
[00:04:00] <Phydbleep> Dirty old man..
[00:04:00] <SWP_Away> if you were 40, I'd probably think differently :)
[00:04:12] <Phydbleep> les: Me not you. :)
[00:04:16] <les> I was sooo tired...
[00:04:34] <les> draggin my feet all the time
[00:04:54] <les> oh well
[00:06:32] <les> I can't go out with ladies my age...they are all pruned out and stuff.
[00:06:55] <Phydbleep> les: You know the wrong ones. :)
[00:07:00] <les> yup
[00:07:03] <les> guess so
[00:07:23] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has seen 60 that looked like 30.
[00:07:36] <les> one of my two employees had a twenty something girl visiting him
[00:07:43] <les> he is 76.
[00:07:49] <les> this is georgia.
[00:07:51] <Phydbleep> No plastic parts all original equipment.
[00:08:31] <Phydbleep> les: This is New Mexico.. It's still 1985 here..
[00:08:38] <les> She wasn't after his money either...I don't pay him much!
[00:10:32] <les> 1985 eh? I think I need to visit.
[00:11:01] <Phydbleep> Naw, Just send that great aunt. :)
[00:11:10] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[00:13:38] <les> she was here 30 minutes ago...I am teaching her how to create a website with shopping cart merchandizing
[00:13:44] <les> oops sp
[00:13:56] <les> we just published
[00:14:06] <les> not finished but it's up
[00:16:15] <les> http://www.broderickcrawfordart.com/
[00:19:38] <jmkasunich> maybe I'm just an art dufus, but what is a giclee? (put that in the FAQ!)
[00:19:46] <les> only tried paypal shopping cart on one item...but it is really easy if you do not have too many items
[00:20:25] <les> a giclee is an inkjet printed work using special light fast pigmented inks
[00:21:01] <les> here is the one paypal shopping cart thing I have tried:
[00:21:06] <les> http://www.broderickcrawfordart.com/giclee6.html
[00:21:17] <les> really easy to do
[00:22:27] <les> I felt the need to put a telephone order line on there too
[00:22:46] <les> for folks that do not like typing visa numbers in a form
[00:24:38] <les> it is so easy...you go to paypal button wizard...put in a description and shipping/tax stuff
[00:24:51] <les> it makes some html for the button
[00:25:23] <les> just copy and paste it into your web html
[00:26:03] <les> I am going to redo my site with this...mine is 7+ years old and looks pretty crude
[00:27:33] <les> this is so easy now
[00:28:14] <les> I know it's kinda bad HTML...
[00:28:20] <les> but it is so quick.
[01:03:26] <dmess> hi all
[01:03:33] <SWP_Away> hiya
[01:03:39] <SWP_Away> oops - I'm away
[01:04:22] <dmess> away off...
[01:07:21] <dmess> gave my son's an abacuss test tonite... both passed...
[01:07:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep passed a "Dadcancuss" test last night.
[01:09:21] <Phydbleep> Countershaft and motor for this lathe is lighter than the last one, but it's still a pain to lift.
[01:09:35] <dmess> opps... not so good for the smallish ppl..
[01:10:45] <dmess> need a little mechanical advantage... is all..
[01:11:46] <Phydbleep> It's mechanichal and had the advantage. :)
[01:12:42] <Phydbleep> I used a 2x4 for a lever to move the lathe around, but I had to drag the motor unit all over to get the right belt.
[01:17:31] <dmess> that bite... ok now??
[01:32:10] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Got the right belt finally... I just had to go to 3 different auto parts houses.
[01:39:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't focus. :/
[01:39:58] <A-L-P-H-A> damn
[01:59:16] <dmess> alpha... on what...baywatch...
[03:55:23] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, machining
[04:17:00] <Jymmm> Well, I got out of HF only spending $108
[04:35:25] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, happen to know where I can get some of these?
[04:35:26] <A-L-P-H-A> 91650A420 7.55
[04:35:51] <A-L-P-H-A> www.mcmaster.com page 3052, item# 91650A420 $7.55.
[04:36:11] <A-L-P-H-A> It's a spiral retaining ring for a 1/2" shaft.
[05:09:02] <Jymmm> use a c-clip
[05:09:24] <Jymmm> err snap ring
[05:10:33] <Jymmm> http://www.lm76.com/Snap%20ring.jpg
[05:10:49] <Jymmm> available at auto prts store
[05:10:53] <Jymmm> parts
[05:39:43] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, probably will.
[05:41:32] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A : If you care, I LOVE these pliers snapon.com PRC21
[05:42:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got something like that already
[05:42:27] <A-L-P-H-A> retaining clip pliers
[05:42:49] <Jymmm> Well, these are internal AND external, plus have all kinds of tips for them
[05:43:06] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah. I think I just have 45degree tips
[05:43:08] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[05:43:09] <A-L-P-H-A> oh ohwell.
[05:43:25] <A-L-P-H-A> not really that expensive of a set either
[05:43:26] <Jymmm> well, if you already have a pair, no biggy.
[05:43:45] <Jymmm> Nope, not at all
[05:44:14] <Jymmm> beats carrying around multiple pliers like this http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?item_ID=6943&group_ID=768
[05:44:33] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[05:45:07] <Jymmm> whats really weird, is the tips are hex bar, but so is the holes, so the tips dont rotate on you either.
[05:46:05] <A-L-P-H-A> that's cool.
[05:46:09] <A-L-P-H-A> makes sense.
[05:46:24] <Jymmm> I'm still trying to figure out how they did that!
[05:46:36] <A-L-P-H-A> did what?
[05:46:41] <A-L-P-H-A> the hex channel inside?
[05:46:46] <Jymmm> yeah
[05:46:55] <A-L-P-H-A> cast? or broached.
[05:47:13] <Jymmm> looks cast
[05:48:14] <Jymmm> Heh, I bought a pipe stretcher today too!
[05:48:27] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[05:48:32] <A-L-P-H-A> what other toys did you get?
[05:48:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I got an ER-11 collet and extension in the mail on tuesday. :D
[05:49:51] <Jymmm> trim router, angle grinder, 10 grinding wheel, 10 cutoff wheels, combo square, grinder conversion kit, soem router bits, the pipe expander
[05:51:20] <Jymmm> oh and a keyless jacobs chuck
[05:52:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I want a 6" square.
[05:52:26] <Jymmm> Eh, dont buy em from HF
[05:52:44] <Jymmm> I bought this one becasue it has a center finder on it
[05:53:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I have cheap shit around here as well... $6.50 - 6". $10 - 8"
[05:53:36] <A-L-P-H-A> http://busybeetools.com/pictures/B1879.jpg <-- I have this.
[05:54:04] <Jymmm> wth is that?
[05:54:17] <Jymmm> looks like a razor blade attached to a block
[05:54:19] <A-L-P-H-A> center finder for a shaft.
[05:55:33] <Jymmm> this is what I got http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?function=Search
[05:55:36] <Jymmm> doh
[05:55:44] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[05:55:46] <A-L-P-H-A> item#?
[05:55:56] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=92471
[05:56:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I wouldn't trust that to any precision.
[05:56:24] <A-L-P-H-A> but $7. who cares.
[05:56:43] <Jymmm> I have a starret square, but no center finder for it.
[05:57:18] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab. gonna make some food.
[05:57:28] <Jymmm> k
[06:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> back
[06:27:17] <A-L-P-H-A> that was enjoyable.
[06:31:00] <Phydbleep> Woohoo!
[06:31:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep dummied up the control electronics and fired up the lathe.
[06:31:53] <Phydbleep> It sounds like a well behaved sewing machine. :)
[06:32:15] <A-L-P-H-A> oh wow... http://busybeetools.com/pictures/b2095.jpg $2.49CDN.
[06:33:27] <Phydbleep> Band-Aids for when the tips break and you skin a knuckle.. $5.99
[06:33:56] <A-L-P-H-A> you put band aids on for skinned knuckles?
[06:33:57] <A-L-P-H-A> baby
[06:45:31] <alex_joni> mornin'
[06:45:49] <A-L-P-H-A> hey hey aj
[06:47:44] <alex_joni> wassup?
[06:47:55] <Phydbleep> Only when the OSHA inspector is about to have an "accident". :)
[06:48:05] <alex_joni> osha?
[06:48:53] <Phydbleep> Yeah, You know the "Do you have a safe work enviroment?" busybodies..
[06:50:23] <alex_joni> I don't ;)
[06:57:20] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, he lives in the EU... where Child slave labour is fun, and legal.
[06:58:45] <Phydbleep> Ah, The lucky so and so..
[06:59:00] <alex_joni> alpha:lol
[06:59:20] <A-L-P-H-A> shit, I'm bored.
[06:59:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep could use a horde of minions to carry out his every whim..
[06:59:53] <Phydbleep> Paint the neighbors dog blue, with pink spots.. :)
[07:00:21] <anonimasu> good morning
[07:02:27] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Morning. :)
[07:05:40] <alex_joni> morning an0n
[07:06:10] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&sort=funnymtd&head=1&thread_id=53390 hahahhahhahahaha
[07:06:11] <anonimasu> nice
[07:08:48] <A-L-P-H-A> NOT OFFICE SAFE http://www.curlydavid.com/wellhu8.html oh gah...
[07:14:00] <anonimasu> lol
[07:19:48] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&sort=funnymtd&head=1&thread_id=48649 omg that's funny
[07:23:19] <anonimasu> lol
[07:36:04] <Phydbleep> Well, At least in the event of a water landing he can use it as a flotation device. :)
[07:36:15] <Jymmm> or an anchor
[07:36:38] <Phydbleep> Mostly fatty tissue.
[07:36:47] <Jymmm> gives new meaning to foot long dog!
[07:37:14] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[07:37:24] <Phydbleep> 1/2 of a 10 foot pole?
[08:11:19] <alex_joni> bye guys
[11:49:23] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're experiencing the user summer spammer infestation. If you get klined by mistake, please email staff at freenode dot net. Apologies in advance for any problems, and thank you for using freenode!
[13:28:22] <anonimasu> hello..
[13:29:08] <alex_joni> hi
[13:30:24] <alex_joni> wassup?
[13:47:31] <anonimasu> not too much
[13:47:33] <anonimasu> I am at work..
[13:47:43] <alex_joni> http://www.kackstelze.de/modules/My_eGallery/gallery/funpics/comics/woistdasquadrat.gif
[13:47:45] <anonimasu> been welding stainless for a bit earlier
[13:47:52] <anonimasu> 0.7mm of it ;)
[13:49:16] <anonimasu> hehe
[13:49:19] <anonimasu> that thing is cool..
[13:49:45] <anonimasu> but I understand where the hole comes from :)
[13:50:15] <jepler> yeah, that's a pretty old trick
[13:50:34] <jepler> 5:2 != 8:3
[13:51:09] <alex_joni> heh
[13:51:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[13:51:54] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it's tricky welding that thin :)
[13:52:33] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what's up with you?
[13:56:10] <alex_joni> an0n: depends on what you use ;)
[13:56:15] <alex_joni> ever tried a microplasma?
[13:56:19] <alex_joni> goes from 1-2 Amps
[13:56:21] <alex_joni> :)
[13:56:36] <alex_joni> an0n: I'm pretty happy that emc2 works on 2.6
[13:56:54] <anonimasu> alex_joni: the tig keeps a arc at 5a without any problems :)
[13:57:26] <anonimasu> alex_joni: besides buying a microplasma isnt justifiable ;)
[13:57:37] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[13:58:20] <anonimasu> could alwaus use pulse-tig or whatever the feature is called..
[13:58:52] <anonimasu> so I can keep the amperage up to have a nice arc, without heating too much
[13:59:53] <alex_joni> yup
[14:00:43] <anonimasu> using 0.8 mig wire as filler works :)
[14:01:04] <anonimasu> but well, it all comes down to the skill of the welder...
[14:01:04] <alex_joni> yeah.. you can even use a mig wire drive
[14:01:05] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:01:14] <alex_joni> for automatic feeding
[14:01:15] <alex_joni> :)
[14:01:51] <anonimasu> yeah but that's not interesting
[14:01:58] <anonimasu> not making loads of stuff..
[14:02:09] <anonimasu> 4 canisters for seeds
[14:02:18] <alex_joni> welding trees eh?
[14:02:24] <anonimasu> lol
[14:06:50] <anonimasu> well time for a sauna..
[14:06:50] <anonimasu> laterds
[14:06:50] <anonimasu> laters..
[14:06:51] <anonimasu> :)
[14:08:21] <alex_joni> sauna? .. nice :)
[15:12:08] <les> whew
[15:12:23] <les> moment of inertia lessons on cad_cam.
[15:12:33] <les> just posted a write up
[15:12:50] <les> wonder if it will be understood.
[17:48:18] <alex_joni> greetings
[17:49:28] <joe2000chevy> hello
[17:49:43] <alex_joni> what's up?
[17:50:42] <joe2000chevy> just here at work
[17:50:57] <alex_joni> nice
[17:51:05] <alex_joni> I am about to go to play some tennis ;)
[17:51:13] <joe2000chevy> also planning what i need to finish the newer cnc parts i'm making. did a new z axis lastnight
[17:51:21] <alex_joni> works ok?
[17:51:45] <joe2000chevy> anyone used the EMC2?
[17:52:24] <alex_joni> don't think so ;)
[17:52:36] <alex_joni> they didn't say anything ... :)
[17:52:39] <alex_joni> we'll see
[17:52:39] <joe2000chevy> hmm, just curious of its looks also
[17:52:53] <alex_joni> I'm waiting for jmk to test it (maybe this weekend)
[17:53:02] <alex_joni> emc2 is kinda used (just not on 2.6)
[17:53:13] <alex_joni> it does make things easier (for HW setup)
[17:54:32] <alex_joni> oh.. and for building too ;)
[17:54:44] <joe2000chevy> no where to get it yet?
[17:54:53] <alex_joni> CVS
[17:55:02] <joe2000chevy> also what is the standard accel. settings in EMC?
[17:55:08] <alex_joni> it's been there (functional) for about a year
[17:55:12] <alex_joni> lemme check
[17:55:49] <joe2000chevy> yea, but i am no linux man so i need a "Set It and Forget It" version,..... haha
[17:56:31] <alex_joni> setp stepgen.0.maxaccel 150000
[17:56:51] <alex_joni> joe: the emc2 should be very easy to try
[17:57:58] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?HowToTryEMC2
[17:58:37] <joe2000chevy> ok i don't even know what CVS is.
[17:59:08] <alex_joni> CVS (concurrent version system) is a software tool
[17:59:18] <alex_joni> that allowes more developers to work on the same code
[17:59:20] <alex_joni> distributed
[17:59:46] <alex_joni> it also remembers all versions of the code, so it's pretty easy to go back to a working version
[18:00:04] <alex_joni> you can have branches (where new stuff is tried out till it's proven to work)
[18:00:40] <joe2000chevy> um ok... :)
[18:01:03] <alex_joni> but for the user.. it's a place to get your stuff
[18:01:08] <alex_joni> :)
[18:01:21] <joe2000chevy> great now i got to learn how to install CVS?
[18:01:35] <alex_joni> what distro are you running?
[18:01:43] <alex_joni> BDI?
[18:02:04] <joe2000chevy> I have never used linux except install BDI, edit ini file (with ya'lls help) and tun it
[18:02:11] <alex_joni> right
[18:02:25] <alex_joni> ok, BDI should have the tools you need to use CVS
[18:02:36] <alex_joni> run a console (think you know how)
[18:02:38] <alex_joni> and type:
[18:02:58] <alex_joni> 1). 'declare -x CVS_RSH=ssh'
[18:03:04] <joe2000chevy> I have used windows since 3.0, then 3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT, XP, NT4.0, Server 2003.....
[18:03:34] <alex_joni> 2). 'cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc login'
[18:03:51] <alex_joni> 3). 'cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc co emc2'
[18:04:04] <alex_joni> now that I think of it.. 1). is not needed
[18:04:09] <alex_joni> only 2). and 3).
[18:04:49] <joe2000chevy> and d: being access to cd drive?
[18:04:56] <alex_joni> nah ;)
[18:05:01] <joe2000chevy> grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[18:05:03] <joe2000chevy> lol
[18:05:06] <alex_joni> that's the protocol cvs uses
[18:05:11] <alex_joni> in this case pserver
[18:05:30] <joe2000chevy> pserver, what is a pserver?
[18:05:50] <joe2000chevy> public server?
[18:06:28] <alex_joni> yup
[18:06:31] <alex_joni> smthg like that
[18:06:49] <joe2000chevy> oh so thats the console comand to connect and login
[18:06:55] <joe2000chevy> on net
[18:08:09] <alex_joni> heh
[18:09:20] <joe2000chevy> sheez, i guess i will stick to civil engineering, and leave the installing to tech's... hahaha
[18:10:15] <les> hi all
[18:10:45] <alex_joni> hey les
[18:10:51] <alex_joni> what's up?
[18:11:22] <joe2000chevy> hi les
[18:11:32] <les> oh just tried to write a simple inertia matching primer on cad_cam this morning
[18:11:43] <les> I think it went over well
[18:12:05] <les> moment of inertia is often confusing for non engineering types
[18:12:07] <joe2000chevy> and I'm just sitting here having alex make me look stupid... hahahaha
[18:12:13] <les> heh
[18:12:18] <alex_joni> not true ;)
[18:12:24] <alex_joni> I have proof :P
[18:12:48] <joe2000chevy> guess i need to return my A&M degree.... i got cheated.... lol
[18:12:57] <les> civil?
[18:13:04] <joe2000chevy> yes
[18:13:11] <les> aaero here.
[18:13:15] <les> aero
[18:13:17] <les> haha
[18:13:23] <les> keystick.
[18:13:29] <joe2000chevy> civil engineering and land surveying is my career
[18:14:16] <les> I actually only did aero stuff in school. I design electronic/mechanical products.
[18:14:22] <joe2000chevy> <-------- Putting degree's in box now..... hahaha
[18:15:26] <joe2000chevy> It's just i have not used linux or learned any comands thereof....
[18:15:29] <les> um...what is the proper shape for a road curve? parabolic? catenary?
[18:16:16] <joe2000chevy> in a vertical curve?
[18:16:23] <les> lets see... parabolic would have inf jerk at entry and exit
[18:16:35] <les> roads are trajectory planning!
[18:16:52] <les> Ok. road curves should be banked cubics.
[18:17:04] <les> quintics I mean
[18:17:39] <les> banked horizontal curve.
[18:18:22] <joe2000chevy> a polynomial
[18:18:34] <les> Can I be a civil engineer now?
[18:18:41] <les> I promise to be good.
[18:18:45] <alex_joni> les: it'll take me a while to get through your posting ;)
[18:18:46] <joe2000chevy> lol
[18:19:37] <joe2000chevy> most states with a degree already you can just take the test, (open book)
[18:19:45] <les> alex: I described the inertia in an odd way in the hopes it would be understood.
[18:19:56] <alex_joni> yup
[18:20:09] <les> oh yeah...I can take a civil PE
[18:20:24] <joe2000chevy> actually the RPLS state exam was harder than the engineering exam
[18:20:45] <les> hmm
[18:21:34] <les> Revolving Polar Leakage State?
[18:21:52] <SWPadnos> Really Picky Licensing System
[18:21:57] <les> haha
[18:22:17] <joe2000chevy> no not in texas
[18:24:02] <alex_joni> hey SWP
[18:24:08] <SWPadnos> hi
[18:24:26] <alex_joni> how've you been?
[18:24:31] <SWPadnos> argh - it's hard to find test probes for 0.01 inch pitch connectors
[18:24:36] <SWPadnos> see above :)
[18:24:39] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... Ethically I can't take the Licensed Contractor test here... I'm the sys/net admin for the system that all the data/tests/results is stored on. :)
[18:25:03] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: 0.01" or 0.01mm?
[18:25:13] <SWPadnos> .01 "
[18:25:13] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : That depends on what your study material is =)
[18:25:40] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: The contents of the entire machine.. I know more than I should. :)
[18:26:02] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Standard chip-clip should do it.
[18:26:40] <SWPadnos> nope - those only go down to around 0.025 spacing
[18:26:48] <SWPadnos> plus it's not a chip
[18:26:53] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: You need one test point or a whole row?
[18:27:10] <SWPadnos> it's one of those annoying tiny flex circuit connectors
[18:27:16] <SWPadnos> a row would be great
[18:27:51] <joe2000chevy> man i hate when you are at work and they want you to work.... don't they know you have hobbies you are doing????
[18:27:54] <SWPadnos> (I'm trying to partially reverse engineer the control of a CCD chip)
[18:29:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos http://www.pomonaelectronics.com/pdf/d5674B_100.pdf
[18:30:19] <SWPadnos> heh - those probes are only about 3 pins in width :)
[18:30:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos http://www.muellerelectric.com/testleads/testlead1.html
[18:31:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm - those might be OK (but I can't get to the datasheets)
[18:32:06] <Jymmm> neither can I
[18:32:21] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: It's the standard 'micro-hook' style.
[18:33:17] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is going to play some tennis
[18:33:34] <alex_joni> later guys
[18:33:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep just woke up and realizes that the lathe is almost ready to run.
[18:33:49] <SWPadnos> yeah - I need 0.25mm pitch - that'll be a real pain
[18:33:49] <Phydbleep> WOOHOO!
[18:33:53] <Phydbleep> Laters alex_joni
[18:34:06] <SWPadnos> see ya Alex
[18:34:16] <alex_joni> yeah.. later
[18:34:55] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... The splice in the belt makes it sound like a sewing machine. :)
[18:35:34] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Well it's either Mueller or Pomona, I'm not aware of anyone else that makes any test probes that small.
[18:35:55] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[18:36:43] <SWPadnos> http://www.adapters.com
[18:38:18] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: How many pins do you need?
[18:38:37] <SWPadnos> http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Hirose/Web%20Photos/FH18-39S-0.3SHW.jpg
[18:38:41] <SWPadnos> 39
[18:38:57] <SWPadnos> at least - that would be ideal
[18:39:12] <SWPadnos> it
[18:39:12] <Jymmm> can you make a PCB to attach that to?
[18:39:18] <SWPadnos> it's part # HFM39TR-ND
[18:39:36] <SWPadnos> I can, but I was trying to get this information by today (unfortunately)
[18:40:05] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: PCB for that could be done with a jewelers saw.
[18:40:14] <SWPadnos> also, the quick-turn PCB shops generally don't do such fine pitch (without charging several arms and another appendage)
[18:41:00] <dmess> boo !!!
[18:41:07] <Jymmm> what, you cant mill one yourself?
[18:41:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sweeps dmess under the rug..
[18:41:32] <anonimasu> heh
[18:41:39] <dmess> plop..
[18:42:23] <dmess> dmess never goes away
[18:42:51] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep looks for a mallet to deal with the lump under the rug.. :)
[18:43:38] <dmess> the lump tries to wiggle to the next thermal...
[18:44:26] <anonimasu> lol
[18:45:07] <Jymmm> * Jymmm removes the bug under the rug a la 'The Matrix' style
[18:45:17] <anonimasu> hammer?
[18:45:23] <dmess> ouch... that hurt...
[18:45:28] <dmess> ; (
[18:45:29] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Lots of C-4?
[18:45:40] <Jymmm> anonimasu you dont remember the scene in the back of the car?
[18:45:51] <dmess> i eat that for breaky
[18:46:10] <Jymmm> When he's "bugged"
[18:46:11] <Phydbleep> dmess: Bugs for breaky? BLEAH!
[18:46:31] <dmess> c-4 for breaky
[18:46:44] <Phydbleep> Start the day with a bang?
[18:46:44] <dmess> i shit nitro from it...
[18:47:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if asdfqwega is awake/aware/alive.
[18:48:11] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess... don't you have to work?
[18:52:13] <dmess> no were letting em all crash today..
[18:52:26] <Jymmm> crash what?
[18:52:37] <A-L-P-H-A> planes
[18:52:46] <Jymmm> ah, cool.
[18:52:55] <dmess> planes with our landing gear
[18:53:14] <dmess> brb
[18:54:41] <anonimasu> Jymmm: : what?
[18:54:46] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yeah
[18:54:48] <anonimasu> I do
[18:57:17] <Jymmm> did i ask you to marry me or something?
[18:58:31] <anonimasu> no, you asked me if I remembered the scene from the matric
[18:58:33] <anonimasu> matrix..
[18:59:00] <dmess> bak..
[18:59:10] <dmess> baked
[18:59:20] <Jymmm> anonimasu ah, ok =)
[18:59:43] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, an optics table is up for bid
[18:59:48] <Jymmm> err auction
[18:59:57] <dmess> alpha .. what you doing home??
[19:01:16] <dmess> would a 5 axis positioning system be realistic with emc in itst current form...
[19:03:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I work at home.
[19:03:34] <dmess> it would be used to position a shot peening gun to strategically peen high strength aero components
[19:03:53] <dmess> i ; )
[19:04:09] <Phydbleep> Hmm.. I need a modified tailstock casting for a lever/turret tailstock.. :\
[19:04:28] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, emc could do it... so could turbocnc. But the issue is the programmer, or the software to define the movements for EMC.
[19:04:35] <Phydbleep> dmess: How complex is the part?
[19:04:47] <dmess> the idea is a registered program and process could assure uniformity among components
[19:05:02] <dmess> quite..
[19:06:02] <anonimasu> dmess: depends on what speed.. you need
[19:06:20] <anonimasu> I belive the old tp does 5 axis:es
[19:06:31] <anonimasu> SQ wont do more then 3 and is probably going away
[19:06:43] <Phydbleep> dmess: Try it? The worst that will happen is you learn it wont work for what you want, but at least you'll learn something. :)
[19:06:44] <dmess> im thinking of a bridge type mill with a column that carries a full rotary off of it and a 270 deg rotary off that...
[19:07:57] <Phydbleep> dmess: And how much recoil does that shot-peening unit have?
[19:08:05] <dmess> and a rotary table on the table upright paralel to x spinning paralel to y
[19:08:50] <dmess> i figure the entire inards gotta be coated in eurathane
[19:09:12] <anonimasu> hm, the only problem is you cam program..
[19:09:13] <anonimasu> :)
[19:09:15] <Phydbleep> dmess: It might be easier and more fun to just use the .20ga. :)
[19:09:35] <dmess> i can program it... no worries..
[19:10:19] <dmess> but will emc take tool axis vectors once i get into milti axis??
[19:10:29] <dmess> multi
[19:10:58] <anonimasu> never heard about that..
[19:11:22] <dmess> the process is relatively slow... but needs to be controlled..
[19:11:35] <anonimasu> what does it mean?
[19:11:48] <dmess> what 5 axis machines have you programmed??
[19:12:00] <anonimasu> none.
[19:12:30] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Rotate toolhead X degrees around joint K.
[19:12:32] <dmess> unit vector for each rotary axis .. as position input
[19:12:49] <dmess> no... point in this diretcion
[19:13:14] <dmess> x,y,z... in a cube...
[19:13:14] <anonimasu> hm ok
[19:13:29] <dmess> to point in a direction
[19:13:31] <Phydbleep> Ah, 90/90/90 vectors..
[19:13:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[19:13:39] <anonimasu> I dont think emc can do that
[19:13:41] <anonimasu> yet
[19:13:51] <dmess> chaching... 1000$$ question..
[19:13:58] <Phydbleep> Does emc use quaternion math?
[19:14:22] <dmess> whats that... from newfoundland..???
[19:14:32] <Phydbleep> quaternion = vector + float.. X, Y, Z, Scale ?
[19:14:48] <dmess> connonical form..
[19:15:26] <dmess> APT uses it... i can post to nearly ANYTHING on this planet..
[19:15:37] <Phydbleep> Conanical form? It's going to run in screaming and waving a sword?
[19:16:06] <dmess> im going back under the rug.... ; ##
[19:16:17] <anonimasu> heh
[19:16:25] <anonimasu> hm, APT?
[19:16:36] <Phydbleep> Crap.. Hide the women, kids and small furry animals.
[19:16:41] <dmess> its easy...Automatically Programmed Tool
[19:16:54] <dmess> and the beer
[19:17:05] <Phydbleep> dmess: Sorry, I couldn't resist. :)
[19:17:24] <dmess> goto/l1,intof,l2
[19:17:42] <dmess> type of stuff..
[19:18:17] <dmess> i should scan the manual for you all to see... old ibm360 apt
[19:18:45] <dmess> put the man on the moon though... with alot less pc power...
[19:18:48] <Jymmm> Mmmmmmmmmmmmm Beer
[19:19:37] <dmess> full 5 axis contouring... text...
[19:20:04] <dmess> absolutely no graphical interface..
[19:20:41] <dmess> you write a *.apt file.... and say apt *
[19:21:05] <Phydbleep> dmess: Not at that point in time.. I think there's a rudmentary gui for it now.
[19:21:55] <dmess> you get a *.p01 file of g codes ... a *.lst of the processing of cutter location points... and matrices or transformations...
[19:22:18] <Phydbleep> dmess: You're working with a standardized part?
[19:22:28] <dmess> i like text... keeps your mind thinkin..
[19:22:43] <dmess> whats a standardized part??
[19:23:21] <Jymmm> dmess part + sledge hammer == standardized part
[19:23:47] <Phydbleep> You're manufacturing landing rear parts for ultralights?
[19:23:54] <Phydbleep> s/rear/gear
[19:24:04] <dmess> parts start out AT the hammer dudes...
[19:24:54] <Phydbleep> No, No, No.. Parts start out as parts and the hammer is an 'inertial installer'
[19:25:00] <dmess> no...canadair regionals... falcon f7x....f/a18...
[19:25:29] <dmess> nose of the a 380
[19:25:29] <Phydbleep> Pylon racers
[19:25:43] <dmess> all of the a 340 gear...
[19:26:04] <dmess> v22 osprey
[19:26:09] <Phydbleep> Oh.. cargo/cattle transport. :)
[19:26:25] <anonimasu> :)
[19:26:26] <dmess> you name it we land it...
[19:26:52] <dmess> and i land on the only TRUE MESSIER landing gear
[19:27:04] <dmess> my own..
[19:27:17] <Phydbleep> Hehehehe....
[19:27:21] <Jymmm> dmess liar! http://www.plumcreekmarketing.com/03flyinstuff/01imagesgeospace/fullsize/020005flyigmachine.jpg
[19:28:25] <dmess> and you said you wouldnt tell...
[19:28:39] <Phydbleep> dmess: Most of the things I can think of to add LG to would need RATO's for launch. :)
[19:28:40] <dmess> i dont like you anymore... ; (
[19:29:05] <dmess> rato's??
[19:29:10] <Jymmm> dmess heh
[19:29:27] <anonimasu> launch rockets..
[19:29:50] <Phydbleep> Rocket Assist Take Off.. rato packs are fun.. 1000lbs of thrust for 60 seconds each. :)
[19:30:17] <Phydbleep> Add 4 to a VW Golf and get the fsck out of the way. :)
[19:31:24] <dmess> jato...
[19:32:20] <anonimasu> hm, dmess maybe you've got a clue.. .why is alu hard to mill on my mill?
[19:32:44] <dmess> you would not believe what we have to do to tis stuff..
[19:33:02] <dmess> it shouldnt be...
[19:33:10] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: What grade of Al?
[19:33:16] <anonimasu> 6060
[19:33:21] <dmess> what ARE you trying to do?
[19:33:36] <dmess> stringy gummy shit... ok..
[19:33:37] <anonimasu> I am trying to mill it..
[19:33:53] <dmess> face mill a slot... holes???
[19:33:59] <anonimasu> or wait, a sec..
[19:34:03] <anonimasu> logger_aj: bookmark
[19:34:03] <anonimasu> See
[19:34:08] <dmess> end mill a profile
[19:34:10] <Phydbleep> 10mm cutter, 4mm cut ~ 14 ipm.
[19:34:14] <anonimasu> yeah
[19:34:17] <anonimasu> 8mm cutter....
[19:34:19] <dmess> rpm??
[19:34:25] <anonimasu> 2500-3000
[19:34:31] <dmess> coolant??
[19:34:32] <anonimasu> 350mm/min
[19:34:37] <anonimasu> wd40
[19:34:40] <anonimasu> and shop air..
[19:34:43] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would say 3k - 4.5k
[19:35:06] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: the speed gives the right chipload..
[19:35:07] <dmess> not good enuf in 60xx series...
[19:35:58] <Phydbleep> 6060 is sorta sloppy.. Run it 40%-50$ faster.
[19:36:11] <dmess> its gummy.. you will be dieing from tool adhesion... to clear that shit dry you gotta fry an about 1500 sfm and use diamind..
[19:36:12] <Phydbleep> 50%
[19:36:37] <anonimasu> 1500 sfm, what speed is that in mm/min
[19:36:44] <dmess> man i GOTTA learn to type..
[19:37:07] <Phydbleep> dmess: Get a cute redhead who can take dictation. :)
[19:37:16] <dmess> it isnt... its the rpm... with respect to cutter diameter
[19:37:22] <Phydbleep> And get me 2 or 3 while you're at it. :)
[19:37:31] <anonimasu> hm ok..
[19:37:32] <SWPadnos> 1500 * 25.4 * 12 smmm
[19:37:33] <dmess> DICTation of love
[19:37:48] <SWPadnos> (surface mm / min)
[19:38:00] <dmess> i could become the DICKtator of love... i like that.. ; )
[19:38:07] <SWPadnos> dick-tater
[19:38:27] <dmess> mm/min is feedrat... proportionate to chipload...
[19:38:28] <anonimasu> 457200mm/min
[19:38:46] <dmess> light for finish ... heavy for ruf...
[19:39:08] <anonimasu> hm..
[19:39:25] <dmess> ruf with .3mm/tooth and finish wit .13/tooth
[19:39:39] <anonimasu> I put it into my program with 0,05 of chipload it says 300mm/min
[19:40:38] <dmess> that too light in that stuff... your spin welding....
[19:41:25] <anonimasu> argh.. it adds up to about 1800mm/min then
[19:41:32] <dmess> it really sticks to the surface of the tool and like things attract..
[19:41:50] <dmess> what does...
[19:41:50] <anonimasu> nope..
[19:41:51] <anonimasu> more
[19:42:00] <anonimasu> nope.. that's right
[19:42:09] <anonimasu> * anonimasu dosent get how this is really
[19:42:13] <anonimasu> very very strange
[19:42:25] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Run a bigger dia tool to get the surface speed up?
[19:42:32] <anonimasu> that's a shitload of speed..
[19:42:35] <dmess> and the setup and part dictate how you can aim your chips..
[19:42:40] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: : i have no 2 flute larger then 8mm
[19:42:56] <anonimasu> wait a bit going to run out and try it..
[19:43:23] <dmess> no wait... what power do you have??
[19:43:38] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Is it small enoug to set in a pan of coolant and clamp over the lip of the pan?
[19:44:41] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has also done rude things with plasticine and plastic bags for collant dams.
[19:44:51] <Phydbleep> s/collant/coolant
[19:45:34] <dmess> good plan... and if you can.. use water... then just befor cycle start... ad 1/4 " (6mm) of iso alcohol to it... run it submerged..
[19:46:16] <dmess> as the ist evaps it pulls heat from the melle
[19:46:22] <dmess> iso
[19:47:11] <dmess> gotta fly for a bit.... im the chauffeaur
[19:47:32] <dmess> and i use french for the extra tip
[19:47:42] <anonimasu> yeah that'd work..
[19:48:04] <anonimasu> can I try take a 2cm cut if I spray it with coolant..
[19:48:07] <anonimasu> to try.....
[19:48:23] <anonimasu> need to see if more speed works...
[19:48:25] <dmess> get some sfm in there and feed it as hard as your setup /machine/tool will take..
[19:48:51] <anonimasu> I am worried since the spindle gums up and stops..
[19:49:07] <anonimasu> might be the belt that slips...
[19:49:09] <dmess> why does it gumm up??
[19:49:18] <anonimasu> too low of a feed I think..
[19:49:43] <anonimasu> we will see in a bit
[19:49:47] <dmess> if its not loaded up.. it wont help
[19:50:16] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Belt dressing.
[19:50:30] <dmess> drive the thing... i was known as the master of disaster
[19:50:52] <dmess> the spindle will louad up the belt too
[19:51:11] <dmess> youve had it just flapping out there..
[19:51:31] <Phydbleep> Anybody want a Compaq P-II 300 hernia^H^H^H^H^H^Hserver?
[19:51:52] <dmess> send her over..
[19:52:09] <Phydbleep> dmess: BC?
[19:52:22] <dmess> BC?? what...
[19:52:30] <dmess> Ontario
[19:52:38] <dmess> quebec
[19:52:52] <Phydbleep> I was on the right continent. :)
[19:52:52] <dmess> i know all of them... is it a test
[19:53:12] <Phydbleep> No, Where are you?
[19:53:18] <dmess> put it on a balloon ... it'll get to me
[19:53:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep could just do a traceroute and fiind out.
[19:53:37] <dmess> near Toronto ontario canada
[19:53:48] <dmess> oshawa
[19:53:57] <dmess> where GM makes cars
[19:53:57] <Phydbleep> OK.. I WAS on the right continent. :)
[19:54:04] <dmess> and you
[19:54:41] <Phydbleep> New Mexico.. Just west of Northern Hell (Texas). :)
[19:55:16] <dmess> i have a 5 year plan to visit Zapata Tx
[19:55:56] <dmess> WRE - world record encampment
[19:56:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a 25 year plan to watch Texas burn down, fall over and sink into a swamp. :)
[19:57:03] <dmess> M.R. flew 704 Km.. without an engine... in 1 day.... it took 2 days for the chase team to retrieve him..
[19:57:09] <Phydbleep> It's done all of them before, just never all at the same time. :)
[19:57:45] <Phydbleep> ~470 miles?
[19:57:54] <dmess> yeah...
[19:58:07] <Phydbleep> ROFL.. Nice thermls. :)
[19:58:12] <Phydbleep> thermals
[19:58:29] <dmess> was a bad day for those of us that still had the 300 mile world record...
[19:58:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep hopes there was a glider involved.
[19:58:50] <dmess> he didnt beat it he STOMPPED it
[19:59:19] <dmess> yes... hang glider..
[19:59:22] <Phydbleep> M.R. = one of the Rutan bros?
[19:59:37] <dmess> no... manfred Rhumer..
[20:00:07] <Phydbleep> Ah, Figured it was a Rutan from the hang-time. :)
[20:00:14] <dmess> rutan flies rigids... 50:1 type of shit..
[20:00:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is VERY familiar with the Rutan designs.
[20:00:56] <dmess> no this man IS the finest pilot on the planet today...
[20:01:20] <dmess> verry... ehhh... belllly inteereestink
[20:02:42] <dmess> i was pleased to see him make orbit this yr with a plae within reach of ppls idea of what it costs to go into orbit
[20:03:17] <Phydbleep> Yeah, And it's only ~ 20 years late. :\
[20:03:49] <dmess> i read a detailed report of the pilots Perspective... and man to have had to fly that... ; )
[20:04:49] <dmess> he flew it ALL by hand.... there were no automated systems..
[20:04:55] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if the cockpit audio for that trip is one 90 second long scream of "OH SH*T!"..
[20:05:27] <dmess> F#A*C%K...how did i get into this...
[20:05:39] <Jymmm> dmess woke up this morning
[20:06:08] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has has been having nasty thoughts about modulating the throttle on a liquid fueled rocket with an audio signal..
[20:06:11] <dmess> then you switch into "save the meat" mode... and yourepeat it... over and over,,,and over
[20:06:41] <dmess> my dog was dead...
[20:06:53] <dmess> someone had shot him..
[20:07:14] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. Inna-Godda-Da-Vida @ 1,000,000 HP into the nozzles. :)
[20:07:22] <Phydbleep> dmess: Bummer!
[20:08:18] <dmess> more power scotty... 3million scofield unit hot sauce... pls... we gotta another thing commin
[20:08:22] <Phydbleep> dmess: When/Who/Did you take the 'board of education" (2x4) and teach them the error of their ways?
[20:09:36] <dmess> i'd rather not disclose that information due to confidentiality agreements..
[20:09:48] <dmess> and pending litigation
[20:09:50] <les> hmm airplane talk
[20:10:06] <dmess> not at all les..
[20:10:22] <les> heh
[20:10:28] <Phydbleep> les: Some A-Hole shot dmess's dog. :(
[20:10:39] <les> ?
[20:10:44] <les> let me read back
[20:11:00] <dmess> just wondering wht rutan's orbiters pilot had to deal with... he flew it by hand FYI
[20:11:27] <Imperator_> Hi all
[20:11:30] <les> they did not go into orbit
[20:11:34] <les> hi martin
[20:11:36] <Imperator_> what happend ??
[20:11:40] <dmess> no he hit her with a car.. but the song say she was shot.
[20:11:41] <Phydbleep> Win-CE for the FCS.. He was safer on manual. :)
[20:11:55] <Imperator_> Hi les
[20:11:57] <dmess> sorry sub-orbit
[20:12:33] <Phydbleep> dmess: Oh.. You confused me with the shot line.
[20:12:55] <dmess> still flew at like 600 miles per second ... with HIS hands on the control surfaces...only
[20:13:31] <les> it was hand flown...true
[20:14:09] <dmess> there was a pucker factor someone forgot to facto in..
[20:14:26] <dmess> and he still made it
[20:14:31] <Phydbleep> dmess: ~12.9. :)
[20:14:49] <les> I kinda puckered when Mike went into a bad pitch oscillation at about mach3
[20:14:56] <les> I mean roll
[20:15:43] <Phydbleep> dmess: And a 10 on that scale is where your underwear and 1/2 the seat cushion has vanished. :)
[20:16:03] <dmess> m3 is NOT a place to have oscilations
[20:16:15] <les> 600 degrees per second had to get his attention.
[20:16:35] <dmess> ive pulled rivets outta the lower surface..
[20:17:01] <Phydbleep> 3600 RPM roll?
[20:17:05] <les> in a hang glider?
[20:17:12] <dmess> hmm 5G or so... should have made him pass out
[20:17:33] <les> no phy about 120 rpm
[20:17:53] <les> I have done 6. It hurts. A lot.
[20:17:54] <dmess> not literally.. but in pucker facktor
[20:18:53] <dmess> thats wht ALL factory produce hangglider are tested to these daye...+6 / -2
[20:19:10] <les> that is a good thing
[20:19:12] <Phydbleep> les: 600 deg/sec = 1.66667 RPS = 100 RPM. ;)
[20:19:25] <Phydbleep> les: We were both off.
[20:19:26] <les> yup I guessed about right
[20:19:33] <les> haha
[20:19:56] <dmess> its too flippin fast... after the 3-4 spin... you start to get disoriented...
[20:20:17] <dmess> then you get pushed outta shape...
[20:20:24] <les> It would bother me I think...a regular spin is slower than that
[20:21:12] <dmess> i flat pun my paraglider into the plant... its still pretty fast... on approach
[20:21:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep will wait for a nice quiet a-grav unit..
[20:21:37] <anonimasu> hm..
[20:21:38] <anonimasu> it did work
[20:21:49] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Pan-o-coolant?
[20:21:52] <les> remember I spun in my old rogallo over water.
[20:21:53] <anonimasu> although the surface finishdidnt end up where I wanted..
[20:21:58] <anonimasu> nope.. 1400 infeed
[20:21:59] <anonimasu> and 2500rpm..
[20:22:04] <les> That was the last time I flew the things.
[20:22:04] <anonimasu> max 2mm cuts..
[20:22:05] <dmess> did in my wrists and my upper back in that one..
[20:22:23] <les> Just knocked the breath out of me
[20:22:30] <dmess> rogallos wer infamous for flat spinning...
[20:22:52] <dmess> not their bes retail selling feature
[20:22:58] <les> yes and that was before I had engineering training...so I made a bad design.
[20:23:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[20:23:19] <anonimasu> time to build a router an d f*ck this mill.
[20:23:32] <anonimasu> well atleast it cuts.
[20:23:38] <anonimasu> but the surface is ~
[20:23:46] <anonimasu> depth of cut dosent seem to matter..
[20:23:57] <dmess> whats your tool made out of??
[20:24:04] <anonimasu> it might be the very small throw I've got..
[20:24:16] <anonimasu> it's a 8mm HSS slotdrill
[20:24:19] <les> I did a write up on inertia matching for routers this morning on the cad_cam list
[20:24:35] <dmess> get hss cobalt tool... tougher
[20:24:48] <anonimasu> hm, does dormer have thoose?
[20:24:54] <dmess> yes
[20:25:05] <anonimasu> hm, I'll look at it at monday..
[20:25:13] <les> People seemed to like it....I will save it for the cnc router design book I might write one day.
[20:25:21] <anonimasu> but that still dosent explain my oscilations-...
[20:25:35] <dmess> could i have a copy to read..
[20:25:52] <anonimasu> maybe it's the long overhang..
[20:25:59] <les> it's on the list messages
[20:26:09] <anonimasu> I could try with a 4mm 4 flute cutter..
[20:26:18] <les> explain the oscillations
[20:26:25] <dmess> how much stick out from the collet??
[20:26:37] <anonimasu> 8cm
[20:27:00] <dmess> so 2:1 depth to dia..
[20:27:13] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: How deep do you need to cut?
[20:27:15] <dmess> or 20:1
[20:27:20] <anonimasu> yeah 20:1
[20:27:24] <anonimasu> not too deep right now..
[20:27:26] <dmess> not good...
[20:27:38] <anonimasu> I just dont have any other 2flutes over here..
[20:27:42] <anonimasu> they were for machining plastics ;)
[20:27:52] <anonimasu> but I dont have any better/sharper cutters..
[20:27:58] <dmess> anything... i repeat... anyting over 8:1 must be carbide..
[20:27:59] <anonimasu> just 4 flute gh�ring ones..
[20:28:08] <les> 1 flute might be better
[20:28:17] <anonimasu> but since I am afraid of chip clearance.. I cant really use them,
[20:28:54] <dmess> try one in 60xx it will help to have extra clearance
[20:28:58] <anonimasu> but I might aswell go out and try a test cut to see if I get any surface..
[20:29:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is dissapointed
[20:29:18] <anonimasu> I want flat shiny surfaces
[20:29:26] <anonimasu> without grinding them
[20:29:28] <Jymmm> Got Glass?
[20:29:40] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: There's these things called 'files' :)
[20:29:46] <dmess> with a singlr flut.. tach her up.. and blow off your finich cut as it goes around it
[20:30:05] <anonimasu> I cant go faster then 3000rpm at most..
[20:30:17] <anonimasu> 2500 with the current gearing..
[20:30:23] <anonimasu> or maybe 3500 it was..
[20:30:25] <dmess> and lay the varsol in front of the tool
[20:30:37] <anonimasu> well I've got too little torque.. if I gear it up there
[20:31:08] <dmess> it should do.. does it start to vibrate at a certain speed or anything wierd??
[20:31:36] <anonimasu> yes
[20:32:30] <anonimasu> well I suspect the overhang..
[20:32:30] <anonimasu> .
[20:32:38] <dmess> with 450 rpm and 50 HP i have pushed a 2.3" dia cutter at .2" per tooth...
[20:32:52] <anonimasu> I have 2
[20:32:55] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:33:17] <anonimasu> lol that's a nice cut..
[20:33:17] <dmess> slow it down to where it isnt rockin... then try a cut..
[20:33:54] <anonimasu> didnt seemt to help..
[20:33:58] <dmess> i performed that cut at the national canadian tool show... for 4 days...
[20:34:02] <anonimasu> I ran it down to the minimum of the VFD
[20:34:23] <anonimasu> still no luck with the finish..
[20:34:27] <anonimasu> I took 0.02 off the material..
[20:34:33] <anonimasu> didnt make it look better..
[20:34:46] <anonimasu> same finish from min to max depth�
[20:35:08] <dmess> take.. a minimum of .2MM for a finish cuk...
[20:35:11] <dmess> cut..
[20:35:20] <dmess> axially
[20:35:20] <anonimasu> tried from 1 to 0 in steps...
[20:35:24] <anonimasu> dosent change it :)
[20:35:39] <anonimasu> very very strange..
[20:35:46] <dmess> is the cutter all gummed up...??
[20:35:53] <anonimasu> no
[20:35:55] <anonimasu> it's clean
[20:36:09] <anonimasu> it's a brand new cutter
[20:36:12] <les> are the vibrations low (like 10 HZ) or high?
[20:36:20] <anonimasu> hm, low
[20:36:23] <dmess> look like its cut alu... do you have a 10X loupe??
[20:36:38] <anonimasu> no
[20:36:45] <les> and mill/drill type machine as I recall?
[20:36:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:36:56] <dmess> its cutter guys.. not tool
[20:36:58] <anonimasu> it might be gearbox vibrations..
[20:37:07] <anonimasu> it vibrates a bit at max speed..
[20:37:09] <les> square or round column? I forgot
[20:37:14] <anonimasu> round..
[20:37:20] <les> hollow?
[20:37:31] <anonimasu> I think it is..
[20:37:37] <dmess> 60xx series alu is the SHITTIEST material you can work with
[20:37:44] <les> replacing with solid would help some
[20:37:45] <anonimasu> YEP
[20:38:03] <anonimasu> but the cost would be more then building a mill with linear slides..
[20:38:10] <dmess> fill it with blow in insulation..
[20:38:16] <anonimasu> heh
[20:38:21] <les> depends...if from scrap...
[20:38:27] <anonimasu> � found a pretty good source..
[20:38:46] <anonimasu> 140$ for slids..
[20:38:51] <anonimasu> and rail prices per meter...
[20:38:55] <anonimasu> slides..
[20:39:01] <les> I have a bunch of 6" solid 1018 bar styock I got for free.
[20:39:07] <les> Hard to pick up!
[20:39:15] <anonimasu> no-brand although, but well they seem nice..
[20:40:00] <dmess> 1018 for free is GOOD
[20:40:07] <les> yeah
[20:40:13] <anonimasu> alu?
[20:40:18] <les> steel
[20:40:31] <anonimasu> btw, the slides I was atlking about are ISEL ones..
[20:40:32] <dmess> steel and aluminum are almost the same $$ here right now
[20:40:39] <anonimasu> slides/rails..
[20:40:40] <anonimasu> :)
[20:40:46] <les> steel is getting nuts
[20:40:53] <anonimasu> http://www.solectro.com/Archive/Documents/Delkatalog/delkatalog%20lineargejder2004.pdf
[20:41:06] <anonimasu> les have a look
[20:41:11] <dmess> gone nuts already brother...
[20:41:21] <dmess> were watching it happen
[20:41:29] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:41:47] <les> tried...bad link?
[20:42:00] <Jymmm> link is good
[20:42:15] <les> must have not copied the whole thing
[20:42:24] <dmess> i need 2 die blocks.. 35$ i figured... went in sat am.. 140$
[20:42:38] <anonimasu> hm, I thought they were no-brand..
[20:42:49] <anonimasu> but I think isel makes nice things..
[20:42:59] <les> those are ok
[20:43:11] <anonimasu> the price is super good..
[20:43:15] <les> but aren't HIWIN profile rails cheaper for you?
[20:43:26] <anonimasu> hm, no idea..
[20:43:29] <anonimasu> I dont know where to get thoose
[20:43:38] <les> germany
[20:43:39] <anonimasu> I've got the catalog of that company at work..
[20:43:52] <anonimasu> they sell isel/router spindles and amps..
[20:44:17] <anonimasu> although the servoamps retail at about 650$
[20:44:51] <Jymmm> FYI... Today is Friday the 13th
[20:45:03] <anonimasu> nope..
[20:45:08] <anonimasu> Wed Dec 8 08:33:37 CET 2021
[20:45:11] <anonimasu> ;)
[20:45:12] <dmess> i hear a steak calling my name...
[20:45:23] <anonimasu> lucky me
[20:45:24] <Jymmm> dmess does it have a friend?
[20:45:29] <anonimasu> nice
[20:45:45] <anonimasu> les: I think hiwin are hard to source over here..
[20:46:10] <les> pity
[20:46:14] <dmess> friday the 13th is a bike run to port dover ontario... there will be an extra 10000 ppl in a town of 3000
[20:46:28] <Jymmm> anonimasu I keep telling you... 200 miles SSW from you... All you can find for free!
[20:46:50] <dmess> Jymmm come on over
[20:46:58] <anonimasu> Jymmm: where?
[20:47:16] <les> so you really want a router huh?
[20:47:26] <Jymmm> dmess I'll be right there... Got Beer?
[20:47:26] <anonimasu> nope, not really I'd rather have a good mill..
[20:47:31] <dmess> the land of milk and honey... thats what your on about eh..
[20:47:47] <dmess> Jmmm you bring it...
[20:47:47] <les> ok
[20:48:01] <Jymmm> dmess Will one keg be enough?
[20:48:01] <anonimasu> but since all I do is metal..
[20:48:08] <anonimasu> most of it..
[20:48:34] <les> I need to start a nother batch of beer.
[20:48:37] <dmess> it should i gotta work in the am... and ive already started...
[20:48:54] <dmess> les.. you want some carboys??
[20:48:59] <anonimasu> well I'll take a test cut with a 4flute shorter cutter and tell you how it's working out
[20:49:06] <les> I have some 5 gal ones
[20:49:12] <anonimasu> brbr
[20:49:15] <anonimasu> err brb
[20:49:18] <les> k
[20:49:22] <anonimasu> thanks for all the help
[20:49:23] <anonimasu> :)
[20:49:25] <anonimasu> laters guys
[20:49:32] <Phydbleep> dmess: So you really want that Compaq toad?
[20:49:34] <dmess> i have a few too.. and no longer brew bear..
[20:50:17] <les> I could use some more...with 5 gallon lager batches I can drik it faster than I can brew it.
[20:50:29] <dmess> you'd have to ship it... almost too much trouble..
[20:50:37] <les> I need to go to corny kegs though.
[20:50:55] <dmess> never happen... i tried... do the math...
[20:50:56] <Phydbleep> dmess: I'd make you ship me some scrap or parts to make up for it. :)
[20:51:25] <dmess> what you NEED??
[20:52:10] <dmess> welcome to mess's scrap yard.. nearly new or gently abused merchendise only
[20:52:38] <Imperator_> anonimasu: if you need some prices about isel stuff i have a exel sheet from them
[20:52:53] <les> the chunks in my metal remnant bins are getting smaller and smaller
[20:52:57] <les> hi robin
[20:53:13] <robin_sz> hi les
[20:53:30] <Phydbleep> dmess: http://h200007.www2.hp.com/bc/docs/support/UCR/SupportManual/TPM_270217-002/TPM_270217-002.pdf
[20:53:34] <robin_sz> going well?
[20:53:40] <les> oh ok.
[20:53:42] <Phydbleep> Robin! :)
[20:53:51] <robin_sz> Phydbleep!
[20:54:14] <les> paul got back. He brought up TP with Fred. We have to have a discussion.
[20:54:29] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: I got the lathe running last night and it sounds like a sewing machine.
[20:54:42] <robin_sz> nice
[20:54:54] <Imperator_> what have they done at the tp
[20:55:34] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Yeah, All the noise is the brushes in the motor wearing in and the lacing clips in the belt. :)
[20:55:36] <dmess> i dont think so.... look inside the cover there should be a lists and diag of jumpers... look for the reset jumper...
[20:55:38] <les> Well the plan is to have a less ambitious fix than segmentqueue...and do it quickly.
[20:55:43] <les> No more talk
[20:55:44] <robin_sz> heh
[20:55:48] <les> well a little
[20:56:37] <dmess> pull it... start up... shut down... reinsert the reset jumper... and reboot again and you should have a regular box again
[20:56:50] <les> We all agree that TP/TC is a dog...even at slow BP speeds
[20:57:09] <Phydbleep> dmess: ??
[20:57:41] <Phydbleep> dmess: That is the link for the box I'm offering you.. 1 cpu, 128 meg, no HD.
[20:58:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is sick of looking at it.
[20:58:37] <dmess> good will it
[20:59:03] <Phydbleep> dmess: I don't know that they'd want it back. :)
[20:59:11] <robin_sz> hey, help me her
[20:59:12] <robin_sz> e
[20:59:20] <robin_sz> 3.3v differential logic ...
[20:59:25] <robin_sz> convert to TTL
[20:59:28] <robin_sz> what chip?
[20:59:37] <dmess> give it to a kid on the street...
[20:59:43] <Phydbleep> max232 for a q&d.
[20:59:47] <robin_sz> nah
[20:59:52] <robin_sz> 3.3V
[20:59:57] <robin_sz> not rs232
[21:00:12] <robin_sz> like you get out of a FPGA
[21:00:23] <Phydbleep> That's right.. Hang on a sec.
[21:00:25] <dmess> brb
[21:01:32] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: You need to go up or down to 3.3v?
[21:01:44] <robin_sz> from 3.3 to ttl
[21:02:08] <Phydbleep> 7432 schmidt trigger might do it.
[21:02:30] <robin_sz> as in 74 series TTL?
[21:02:57] <robin_sz> hmm, there are specific buffer chips for doing this, its OK, I'll hit the Farnell catalogue
[21:03:23] <Phydbleep> Yeah.. 74LS/74F/74HCT
[21:03:34] <Imperator_> les: do you or paul have writen down what you wana have ?
[21:06:49] <Imperator_> mybe i can discuss that with my professor, he knows something about that but it is not so easy to follow him :-)
[21:07:16] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: max3023 I knew it was a maxim part with 3 & 2 in it. :)
[21:12:34] <acemi> I don't understand this error message: cutter gouging with cutter radius comp. what does it mean?
[21:13:32] <acemi> on the first try, I get this message; on the second try, there is no error message
[21:15:54] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: ta, looking
[21:17:07] <robin_sz> yeah, that would do it
[21:25:33] <les> oh sorry martin I drifted away into the music room
[21:25:45] <Imperator_> :-)
[21:26:05] <les> we want a TP that velocity adapts properly to prevent aliasing
[21:26:19] <les> we want at least cubic smoothing
[21:26:24] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:26:32] <robin_sz> and infinite lookahead
[21:26:36] <les> and we want a higher servo rate
[21:26:43] <robin_sz> we do?
[21:26:52] <les> the math is not complicated...we all know it
[21:27:04] <les> emc as it is written is complcated though
[21:27:14] <robin_sz> correct
[21:27:41] <robin_sz> IMHO you should not build edifices on dodgy foundations
[21:27:55] <les> robin: there is about a 200 microsecond brick wall with emc with ANY cpu speed
[21:27:58] <Imperator_> good documentation and good interfaces of the new planner can help a lot
[21:28:07] <Imperator_> like the very good docs for HAL
[21:28:11] <les> yes
[21:28:20] <robin_sz> until there is a *commitment* to sorting out the basics of emc, I see no point building new bits onto it
[21:28:31] <les> yeah
[21:28:33] <robin_sz> this is what emc2 was *supposed* to be about
[21:28:47] <robin_sz> but we just imported all the old crap to screw up the new stuff
[21:28:55] <les> well we do have the bdi4 branch running
[21:28:59] <robin_sz> which is where I lost interest
[21:29:46] <les> anyway, any help is appreciated
[21:29:50] <les> so...
[21:29:58] <robin_sz> when emc2 started, jmk started on HAL, and I started writing a replacement for the messaging layer
[21:30:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep had to wander away for a few and give the kid a bath.
[21:30:16] <les> k
[21:30:21] <robin_sz> I'd got a few thousand lines into it ...
[21:30:35] <robin_sz> and paul committed a mjor rewrite of rcslib etc
[21:30:46] <Imperator_> i talked with fred and the others at fest, NML is not that bad
[21:30:58] <robin_sz> which sort of stomped on what I was doing .. I gave up
[21:31:05] <anonimasu> iab
[21:31:13] <Imperator_> maybe we can get the code generation stuff running again, then it is much easyer to handle
[21:31:20] <robin_sz> Imperator_: NML isnt that bad, but the *implenetation* of NML IS that bad, if not worse
[21:31:31] <robin_sz> no, stuff thaty
[21:31:51] <Imperator_> Fred was surpriced to hear that we don't use it, because he said, then it is complicated to handle it
[21:32:02] <robin_sz> any solution involving 700 line switch statement, even if codgened is deep fuckwittage.
[21:32:08] <les> I am most concerned with a trajectory engine that does not work
[21:32:15] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:32:15] <robin_sz> well, yeah
[21:32:16] <les> in any implementation
[21:32:17] <Imperator_> then make a detailed suggestion how to improve it
[21:32:21] <anonimasu> I see the traj engine as the most vital part..
[21:32:26] <anonimasu> the other stuff is secondary..
[21:32:27] <robin_sz> Imperator_: waht, again?
[21:32:30] <les> right
[21:32:39] <les> well we will talk.
[21:32:41] <Imperator_> where is it robin ?
[21:32:47] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has to agree with robin_sz about the switch statement.. That should be an array.
[21:32:48] <robin_sz> les: you cannot build new stuff on the mess in there, you'll go mad.
[21:33:01] <les> could be robin
[21:33:10] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: well, no .. what it should do is this
[21:33:31] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: examine the message and switch on some feature of the message
[21:33:42] <robin_sz> not on a type or number
[21:33:43] <anonimasu> nml_routedaemon
[21:34:13] <les> I will drift back to the music room so that I will not go mad now.
[21:34:17] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: I guess I'll have to look at it.. Where is it?
[21:34:20] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: each bit of emc should inform the core what sort of messages it is interested in hearing, then its easy
[21:34:32] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:34:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: I agree with that
[21:34:53] <anonimasu> robin_sz: would that be impossible as long as you use NML?
[21:35:17] <robin_sz> anonimasu: not really, no. externally it could look the same
[21:35:20] <anonimasu> or is the switch statement just a part of EMC and not of the NML libs...
[21:35:41] <robin_sz> its how that NML data is handled by the application that sucketh
[21:36:23] <robin_sz> but ive done this to death a thoudand times .. I deleted the CVS repository a week ot two back in a final "goodbye cruel world" sort of moment
[21:37:21] <anonimasu> I wouldnt mind working on it, but I have no clue where to begin..
[21:37:30] <robin_sz> its far too much for one person
[21:37:38] <robin_sz> it needs a group commitment and a group effort
[21:37:41] <robin_sz> and a plan
[21:37:42] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:38:00] <robin_sz> unless yu get "the board" to agree, yer fucked.
[21:38:10] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[21:38:30] <anonimasu> what are their priorities?
[21:38:44] <robin_sz> so, for that reason, i decided it was dead about two weeks ago and deleted the CVS to prevent me worrying about it :)
[21:39:08] <robin_sz> dunno .. you can read the board emails on Sourceforge
[21:41:03] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:41:27] <anonimasu> I thought you would know since you were trying to get somone to make a effort..
[21:42:05] <robin_sz> well, after two years trying to convince people it is the way forward, and no tmanaging it ..
[21:42:22] <robin_sz> its FAR more than one person could manage
[21:42:46] <robin_sz> with EMC2 I thought I could get something workable, if a bit simple done
[21:43:04] <robin_sz> and then we could enhance it
[21:43:08] <Phydbleep> Ah.. That was for emc1..
[21:43:21] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep will not worry about it then. :)
[21:43:28] <robin_sz> but as I said, rclsib and its friends arrived and got sewn in
[21:44:01] <robin_sz> after that, it was too late as people built on it .. and now, its already being put out as "useable"
[21:44:11] <anonimasu> hm, I heh
[21:44:22] <anonimasu> :/
[21:44:34] <robin_sz> I know ... EMC3!
[21:44:36] <robin_sz> ;)
[21:44:44] <anonimasu> well, that'd be a solution..
[21:44:44] <anonimasu> :D
[21:44:50] <anonimasu> re-build the NML handling stuff..
[21:44:58] <anonimasu> but the work*gah*
[21:45:02] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:45:10] <robin_sz> as a TEAM it could be done
[21:45:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:45:23] <anonimasu> I dont see any trouble in doing routing like that..
[21:45:29] <anonimasu> it's just a message handler with a routing table..
[21:45:37] <Imperator_> still have not heared a realsuggestion how to make it better
[21:45:47] <robin_sz> you can be the pumpkin holder
[21:46:09] <anonimasu> I could hack up a example in c++.. although I dont know how to code with nml..
[21:46:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has nasty visions of raiding arp and routed for code.
[21:46:19] <robin_sz> nah
[21:46:32] <robin_sz> have you seen how Java does it?
[21:46:34] <anonimasu> but putting stuff in a table with routing data.. wouldnt be that extremely hard..
[21:46:43] <anonimasu> no
[21:46:56] <robin_sz> new componetns register as "listeners"
[21:47:10] <robin_sz> oh, sigh
[21:47:17] <anonimasu> yep..
[21:47:20] <robin_sz> sorry, brain is fried
[21:47:35] <anonimasu> new components register as listeners and adds themselves a routing entry..
[21:47:37] <anonimasu> into the table..
[21:47:40] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep hands robin_sz the ketchup.
[21:47:48] <anonimasu> saying "this is me, this data is mine"
[21:47:54] <anonimasu> or well I want this data..
[21:47:58] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:48:01] <anonimasu> or a list of different kinds of data..
[21:48:09] <anonimasu> I was thinking a class with a list of components..
[21:48:17] <robin_sz> yep
[21:48:22] <robin_sz> I had all this done ..
[21:48:23] <daryl> How many kinda of data are there?
[21:48:24] <anonimasu> and a list within each component saying "I want this data"
[21:48:24] <Imperator_> write that stuff down in that still existing wiki page, maybe that gives a picture how to make it better
[21:48:34] <anonimasu> Imperator_: *rant*
[21:48:47] <anonimasu> the concept is very simple..
[21:48:55] <anonimasu> but I have NO CLUE ablut nml..
[21:49:18] <daryl> Is there an nml doc somewhere?
[21:49:19] <robin_sz> yeah and each component has an "add component" method, and as part of that it asks the new component you just added what messages it wants to hear about and then passes those up the chain etc etc
[21:49:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:49:42] <anonimasu> I could say it's less then 1000 lines for the handler..
[21:49:45] <Imperator_> RCS Handbook
[21:49:50] <robin_sz> in essence the core is then just an RT framework
[21:50:03] <robin_sz> you plug in a interp, a planner and some IO
[21:50:05] <anonimasu> or well less possibly..
[21:50:06] <robin_sz> they talk
[21:50:10] <anonimasu> via nml..
[21:50:15] <anonimasu> and that horrid switch statement ;)
[21:50:18] <anonimasu> isnt that it?
[21:50:30] <robin_sz> pretty much yeah
[21:50:36] <robin_sz> but its all so hard-wired
[21:50:37] <daryl> Is there an electronic free version of the RCS handbook?
[21:51:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:51:09] <robin_sz> anonimasu: its the difference between "top down" and "bottom up" design
[21:51:12] <Imperator_> there is a lot at the nist homepage, but not that book
[21:51:15] <anonimasu> hm, couldnt you hack togther a message handler on top.. of it..
[21:52:09] <Imperator_> hi alex
[21:52:14] <robin_sz> youd be better off starting clean (which is what EMC2 was *supposed* to do) and building it up, adding bits until it did enough
[21:52:17] <alex_joni> Hey Martin
[21:52:17] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: :)
[21:52:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:53:05] <Imperator_> anonimasu: if you only discuss that stuff here it will be lost in an hour, thats why i suggest to write it down, for example in the wiki, then you and others can see wat you mean.
[21:53:06] <alex_joni> watcha flaming again?
[21:53:13] <daryl> alex_joni, you mentioned in an e-mail to the list recently that emc2 period had to be set > than otherwise... what were you comparing it to? emc1 on 2.6? or emc1 on 2.4?
[21:53:30] <alex_joni> greater than it is in CVS
[21:53:34] <Imperator_> and if that is a real solutian, and what are the benefits and the hinds
[21:53:38] <alex_joni> I was only talking about emc2 on 2.6
[21:55:59] <daryl> * daryl drops a pin.
[21:56:32] <anonimasu> Imperator_: the benefit is that each component can tell the routing part what it wants.
[21:56:37] <anonimasu> "I Want messages about coolant"
[21:56:48] <anonimasu> stuff like that..,
[21:56:49] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[21:57:02] <robin_sz> it means when I add my laser control mdule
[21:57:21] <anonimasu> and that each component just requires a message table and a "add component" method..
[21:57:22] <robin_sz> I can send "lamp current" messages for lamp 3 to the GUI
[21:57:26] <Phydbleep> All messages containing "BEER" get routed to the console.
[21:57:31] <robin_sz> WITHOUT having to code it into the core
[21:57:33] <anonimasu> yeah exactly..
[21:57:47] <anonimasu> you can even plug in stuff while it's running if it's designed that way..
[21:57:55] <anonimasu> if you give it a little thought..
[21:57:59] <robin_sz> I add a "lamp current display" to the GUI and a current controller to the IO, thats it
[21:58:00] <anonimasu> like debugging/rewriting a module..
[21:58:19] <anonimasu> and just re-moving/calling the add-method again..
[21:58:29] <robin_sz> and that is NEVER going to happen with a 700 line switch statement
[21:58:30] <Phydbleep> Ohh... hotplug.. There's a whole framework already done in the usb routines.
[21:58:40] <anonimasu> "I am chtulu!, give me your blood"
[21:58:45] <Imperator_> agreed, but what i mean is that if you only blame it here that will not result to anything, we need a paper with a suggestion. Than that can be discussed and improved to a solutian.
[21:58:45] <anonimasu> or somthing like that..
[21:58:50] <anonimasu> * anonimasu slaps Phydbleep
[21:59:05] <robin_sz> Imperator_: but this has been going on for 2 years
[21:59:10] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep abuses anonimasu with a rudely shaped turnip.
[21:59:13] <robin_sz> this discussion has been had at least 20 times
[21:59:25] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[21:59:33] <robin_sz> unless there is a commitment, with a plan, its useless
[21:59:34] <Imperator_> robin_sz: there is no document about that, nothing
[21:59:59] <anonimasu> Imperator_: where/who should I whine at?
[22:00:23] <Imperator_> ???
[22:00:40] <anonimasu> Imperator_: I could write a paper, describing this.., but still how would the board look at it?
[22:00:52] <anonimasu> would other developes be positive about it..
[22:00:56] <robin_sz> Imperator_: I think you'll find it was discussed on here a lot, messages to the list and I ven coded up chunks of it ... I think les grabbed my cvs last week before I rm'd it
[22:01:08] <robin_sz> or maybe that was just the GUI
[22:01:13] <anonimasu> Imperator_: yeah it was..
[22:01:14] <anonimasu> I think
[22:01:34] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Print it on a playboy centerfold? They'll stare at it for hours. :)
[22:01:41] <robin_sz> sigh
[22:01:43] <robin_sz> right
[22:01:47] <robin_sz> im outta here
[22:01:51] <robin_sz> later guys
[22:01:54] <anonimasu> Imperator_: it's so many people thats has to agree for it to happen..l
[22:01:57] <anonimasu> robin_sz: laters
[22:01:59] <SWPadnos> there were a number of discussions about this at Fest, as Martin has said
[22:02:10] <anonimasu> hm, did they get to a conclusion
[22:02:10] <anonimasu> ?
[22:02:29] <SWPadnos> Yes - thet NML is probably the leanest mehod of attaining all of the goals
[22:02:48] <anonimasu> yeah, but what about the switch statement..
[22:02:52] <anonimasu> and message handling?
[22:02:56] <Phydbleep> NML = N? messaging layer?
[22:03:04] <SWPadnos> remember - we're not talking about an interprocess communications library to run on one machine - this needs to be able to run over a network, on different OSes
[22:03:08] <SWPadnos> Neutral
[22:03:21] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: that's what nml takes care of..
[22:03:26] <Phydbleep> Cross platform/os
[22:03:32] <daryl> Serious? Neutral?
[22:03:37] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: it's the routing within emc that's the trouble..
[22:04:00] <anonimasu> as far as I understand it
[22:04:22] <Phydbleep> Why should it be any different from the tcpip layer in function?
[22:04:33] <Imperator_> but the discussion happens always in peaces, somebody says what he wants, somebody makes a suggestion about a piece, but there was never a compleat picure how to make it better. Of cause to find such a solutian is not easy, so it has to be started and improved
[22:05:32] <alex_joni> Imperator_: who will do the coding?
[22:06:06] <alex_joni> remember .. people do work on emc for fun
[22:06:14] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep waits for an answer..
[22:06:14] <anonimasu> Imperator_: you cant just start a project like that without everyone agreeing to it
[22:06:15] <daryl> Wow... it is Neutral. How strange.
[22:06:29] <Imperator_> alex i havend started the discussion today :-)
[22:06:31] <alex_joni> daryl: the main GOAL was to abstract data
[22:06:41] <alex_joni> so that it's platform independent
[22:06:45] <alex_joni> hence NEUTRAL
[22:06:56] <alex_joni> on the other end it will be put back in place
[22:06:58] <Imperator_> i think now it is not that bad, but of cause everything can be made better
[22:07:05] <alex_joni> that's where that big switch comes into place
[22:07:18] <alex_joni> Martin: I agree
[22:07:26] <alex_joni> anything (ANYTHING) can be made better
[22:07:30] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:07:38] <alex_joni> the problem is to focus on areas where you really need work
[22:07:47] <alex_joni> I think TP would be the first priority
[22:07:52] <alex_joni> after that IO
[22:08:02] <alex_joni> emc2 doesn't have a proper IO controller
[22:08:03] <dmess> i agree..
[22:08:21] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:08:25] <alex_joni> I did a few things... but that's pretty pathetic
[22:08:36] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Wait a minute.. I thought HAL was the io layer?
[22:08:49] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: no
[22:08:55] <alex_joni> HAL is the hardware abstraction layer
[22:08:57] <Imperator_> anonimasu: i don't speak about a projekt. I say if you want to have it changed, you have to make a real suggestion how to make it better first. If people do not know how to make it better nobody will start coding
[22:09:00] <dmess> start to write up a paper of the ideal system
[22:09:05] <alex_joni> it adds a common wrapper around hardware
[22:09:13] <alex_joni> the problem in EMC is who commands HAL
[22:09:22] <alex_joni> the motion does that right now, and that works ok
[22:09:28] <alex_joni> but say you want a toolchanger
[22:09:33] <alex_joni> who will drive that?
[22:09:58] <alex_joni> HAL will be used to tie some signals from the IO-controller to the parport (or some other board)
[22:10:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thought there were g-codes for tool change.
[22:10:12] <dmess> hal... and motion suspends til t/c completes and resumes motion
[22:10:16] <alex_joni> but the logic for the toolchanger doesn't exist (or you can't put it anywhere)
[22:10:27] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:10:31] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: imagine a big machine (50+ tools on carousel)
[22:10:54] <dmess> you have a pc there.. right...
[22:10:59] <alex_joni> dmess: let's presume that tool carousel needs some commands to bring the right tool
[22:11:05] <dmess> to run emc on>>
[22:11:15] <alex_joni> or you need to move the machine to a certain position to unload the current tool
[22:11:23] <alex_joni> then to another position to load a new tool
[22:11:25] <Imperator_> logic for the tool changer is at the moment hard coded in the motion module, like fred said
[22:11:32] <dmess> so output them on the paralell port
[22:11:46] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: HOME> unload>turret rotate X slots> load
[22:12:06] <dmess> its all macros.. and t/c is just another axis...
[22:12:08] <alex_joni> yeah.. but say you have a wacko machine
[22:12:12] <alex_joni> open a door
[22:12:33] <alex_joni> when this door is open (and only then) the machine is able to run over the x+ limit switch
[22:12:35] <dmess> as wacko as you can imagine ive probably seen
[22:12:39] <alex_joni> to reach the toolchanging station
[22:12:53] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:13:03] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would wire in a control relay for emc to trip.
[22:13:03] <dmess> yes... so the door is another axis..
[22:13:05] <anonimasu> well, I'd put it in the classicladder..
[22:13:08] <alex_joni> so you need to set a signal to open the door
[22:13:22] <alex_joni> you get a feedback that the door is open (you actually check for that)
[22:13:23] <Imperator_> one suggestion at fest was to place the logic for the tool changer in a seperade g-Code programm, that will be called. That together with a PLC in HAL can be a solutian
[22:13:25] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I'd like to run all logic through CL
[22:13:32] <alex_joni> an0n: I agree
[22:13:38] <SWPadnos> sorry - doorbell
[22:13:38] <alex_joni> but you need CL connected to emc
[22:13:38] <dmess> eve if it only has a resolver on it
[22:13:41] <anonimasu> yes
[22:13:49] <alex_joni> and able to send emc commands
[22:13:56] <alex_joni> like move, stop, etc.
[22:14:03] <alex_joni> yo paul_c
[22:14:07] <anonimasu> or well, make macros that can make use of the PLC..
[22:14:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep notices it looks like there is a need for an extended g++ codeset.
[22:14:24] <Imperator_> the problem is that if all logic is in CL then you have two masters on the axis, that is not good
[22:14:25] <anonimasu> alex_joni: the plc dosent need to be able to do that kind of stuff, if you can make your code wait for the plc to say it's finished..
[22:14:27] <dmess> all axis g codes... but reserved axes.. for tool changer
[22:14:53] <alex_joni> yes.. but that wait is also part of some kind of io-controller
[22:15:06] <anonimasu> alex_joni: it's part of the interpreter I belive..
[22:15:24] <alex_joni> an0n: wanna hear how I do it on my robots?
[22:15:28] <anonimasu> alex_joni: sure
[22:15:35] <alex_joni> they usually have 16 I/O
[22:15:39] <Phydbleep> interp and controller should both respect 'wait'
[22:15:41] <alex_joni> user assignable
[22:15:51] <alex_joni> and you have commands for SET/RESET
[22:15:57] <alex_joni> and WAIT for INPUT
[22:16:00] <alex_joni> and IF for INPUT
[22:16:03] <dmess> wait.. is an M code function... it waits for a completed signal..
[22:16:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:16:13] <alex_joni> and based on those you can write simple tasks
[22:16:24] <anonimasu> yep
[22:16:49] <anonimasu> simple/advanced..
[22:16:56] <anonimasu> depending.. you can stage stuff..
[22:17:06] <alex_joni> yeah.. but for advanced you really need a good map ;)
[22:17:14] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:17:18] <anonimasu> if you know what I mean..
[22:17:19] <dmess> logically
[22:17:22] <alex_joni> anyways .. the programming language is kinda like pascal
[22:17:24] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:17:28] <alex_joni> not like g-code
[22:17:31] <anonimasu> wait for X
[22:17:35] <anonimasu> move to x13.2
[22:17:44] <anonimasu> set TC
[22:17:46] <dmess> apt ish
[22:17:52] <anonimasu> wait for TC-COMPLETE
[22:18:07] <alex_joni> I would do it like this:
[22:18:07] <anonimasu> move to previous position
[22:18:17] <anonimasu> exit
[22:18:17] <alex_joni> define an M-code (say M123)
[22:18:22] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:18:25] <alex_joni> M123 O=15
[22:18:33] <alex_joni> that means SET output 15
[22:18:43] <alex_joni> the interpreter sees this message and sends it to CL
[22:19:00] <alex_joni> the CL knows what to do based on EMC's output 15
[22:19:16] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:19:19] <anonimasu> that sounds reasonable
[22:19:20] <dmess> canned sub routine..??
[22:19:20] <alex_joni> M124 I=12 (wait for input 12)
[22:19:41] <anonimasu> but how do you handle the toolchange?
[22:19:56] <alex_joni> like this
[22:20:06] <alex_joni> set O12 (means toolchange)
[22:20:08] <dmess> toggle solenoides and monitor switches
[22:20:16] <alex_joni> maybe an aditional param like T=
[22:20:25] <alex_joni> dmess: you wanna do that in CL
[22:20:30] <anonimasu> yes but you would have to move the machine to the toolchange position first
[22:20:39] <alex_joni> G02...
[22:20:45] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Not true.
[22:20:58] <dmess> i know NOTHING about cl... but it sound doable
[22:21:02] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: you want cl to do it?
[22:21:09] <alex_joni> cl is a point and click ladder
[22:21:27] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: TC stores current pos, homes to turret, reloads, reeturns to previous pos.
[22:21:27] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: get the current position, move to x y do stuff move back..
[22:21:28] <dmess> so it shouldnt be a problem..
[22:22:08] <anonimasu> well I think stuff like that should be coded like macros, and cl called to take care of the logic..
[22:22:22] <dmess> correct...
[22:22:31] <anonimasu> logic and hardware stuff.
[22:22:41] <anonimasu> that way you do not need to wire up CL to the motion part..
[22:22:47] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thinks it should be coded in micros and plugged into the main bus.
[22:22:59] <dmess> retract and reposition is macro.. actual t/c motion & monitor is plc
[22:22:59] <anonimasu> it's require more work on the interpreter though but that would be much easier.
[22:23:09] <anonimasu> yep
[22:23:14] <anonimasu> dmess is right..
[22:23:15] <anonimasu> I think
[22:23:29] <anonimasu> having the motion on the PLC messes stuff up more..
[22:23:42] <alex_joni> I agree
[22:23:47] <anonimasu> you dont work that way with plc's..
[22:23:49] <dmess> yup.. and it has NO busnesss there
[22:23:52] <anonimasu> not too often atleast..
[22:23:57] <alex_joni> you can synch motion with cl to do the motion in emc
[22:24:00] <anonimasu> unless you use the plc for the actual position..
[22:24:02] <anonimasu> yep
[22:24:24] <dmess> plc is an aux controller..
[22:24:27] <anonimasu> yep
[22:24:37] <anonimasu> although with ties to the other parts..
[22:24:49] <alex_joni> jeee... Maximum number of simultaneous control axes : 24 axes
[22:24:56] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what?`
[22:24:59] <dmess> it allows you to sequence the next tool up into position while the machine is in the cut
[22:25:03] <alex_joni> some Fanuc controller
[22:25:06] <anonimasu> cool
[22:25:09] <alex_joni> yup
[22:25:15] <alex_joni> I only have 18 on my robots ;)
[22:25:29] <anonimasu> M2045 R T389
[22:25:35] <anonimasu> ready tool 389
[22:25:35] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:26:05] <anonimasu> then a M1203(call to the macro to go there, and give the "swich" signal to the plc)
[22:26:14] <dmess> why arent we recording and someone rouhging in the code already
[22:26:17] <anonimasu> and turn off the limit'...
[22:26:50] <anonimasu> limit switches..
[22:26:58] <anonimasu> that's the only way I think it should work..
[22:27:09] <anonimasu> moving motion to the plc is death..
[22:27:10] <anonimasu> imo
[22:27:38] <dmess> some t/c's can be made to function with z axis and 4-6 m codes latches to cylinders or switches
[22:28:20] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:28:32] <dmess> so realisticly.. its ALL g codes.. no logic.. switch driven
[22:28:55] <anonimasu> but well, that way is bad..
[22:29:08] <anonimasu> if you have thoose limit switches used as a example..
[22:29:25] <dmess> if you have a more elaborit system.. some take 500 rungs in a ladder to cycle the t/c
[22:30:32] <anonimasu> dmess: what's the point?
[22:30:51] <anonimasu> dmess: having everything as M codes?
[22:31:14] <anonimasu> or?
[22:31:19] <dmess> i have seen a mechanical barrel cam driven t/c...on 1 ac motor..
[22:31:42] <anonimasu> yes?
[22:31:45] <dmess> what do we want to suppurt.. we cant do them all... never..
[22:32:15] <anonimasu> nope..
[22:32:20] <dmess> say yes it supports THIS type of t/c for now..
[22:33:04] <alex_joni> dmess: we can do it generic enough to be able to code them all
[22:33:12] <alex_joni> or the user should be able to code them all
[22:33:17] <dmess> i could run a pick and place off the table from g code driven subprogram.. and be ok
[22:35:03] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:35:20] <anonimasu> dmess: however the logic to do so should to through CL..
[22:35:21] <dmess> Toshiba VTL is just a macro and a servo drive for t/c
[22:35:31] <anonimasu> even though you might just turn on a output..
[22:35:44] <dmess> it could... or i could do it in my head..
[22:35:47] <anonimasu> you might have other logic that wont enable the chaging unless the table is in a position..
[22:36:05] <dmess> you position mannually
[22:36:18] <anonimasu> yes as a macro in g-code
[22:36:31] <dmess> g91 g28 z0 m19
[22:36:41] <anonimasu> but if you have to pass limit switch X to be able to reach the toolchanger what do you do?
[22:37:04] <dmess> g91 g28 x0 yo
[22:37:21] <dmess> no you go home.. then you call macro..
[22:37:30] <anonimasu> ?
[22:37:37] <anonimasu> what does that macro do?
[22:37:46] <alex_joni> the macro goes to bed
[22:37:51] <alex_joni> no wait.. that was me
[22:37:54] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[22:38:10] <Phydbleep> G'night alex_joni :)
[22:38:17] <alex_joni> night Fido ;)
[22:38:24] <anonimasu> night alex
[22:38:29] <dmess> in macro.. you m-code override the limit move to position... do you shit.. return to home.. re enable limits.. and reinstate active gcodes
[22:38:52] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is stuck for an hour and a half till the last of his lathe parts arrive.
[22:39:00] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ starts a wiki page
[22:39:05] <dmess> carry on with g43 hxx
[22:39:21] <anonimasu> dmess: well, that approach is impractical..
[22:39:27] <dmess> does any of this make sense
[22:39:41] <dmess> whyso??
[22:39:41] <anonimasu> dmess: I understand what you say..
[22:39:58] <anonimasu> the only difference is that you do the actual stuff to enable/disable the switches in the CL/PLC/*
[22:40:26] <dmess> i gues..
[22:40:32] <anonimasu> dmess: and leave the positioning to the macro..
[22:40:37] <anonimasu> it makes for a more generic way of doing things
[22:40:40] <Phydbleep> dmess: Waiting for the rocker washers for the old toolpost and I've got a turret holder showing up to use for a couple of weeks.
[22:42:01] <dmess> hey you write the plc part i'll deal with the macros... and mcode macrs
[22:42:15] <alex_joni> dmess: you don't write plc stuff
[22:42:21] <alex_joni> you click & drag it
[22:42:21] <alex_joni> :D
[22:43:04] <dmess> oh i usually looked for a similar machine to peel it from.. ; )
[22:43:47] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I didnt know you did
[22:43:47] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:44:04] <alex_joni> did what?
[22:44:14] <anonimasu> click and drag stuf.f.
[22:44:15] <anonimasu> stuff ;)
[22:44:22] <anonimasu> just kidding
[22:44:41] <alex_joni> well.. I do sometimes
[22:44:42] <alex_joni> :D
[22:44:52] <dmess> b nice guys
[22:44:52] <alex_joni> drag and drop it out the window
[22:45:11] <anonimasu> lol
[22:45:54] <dmess> gravity is free abuse it
[22:46:48] <dmess> expliot it
[22:47:25] <Phydbleep> Gravity is bad for your self esteem.
[22:47:38] <alex_joni> disregard it
[22:47:44] <dmess> i disagree
[22:48:03] <alex_joni> defy it
[22:48:12] <dmess> i choose to ignore it at times...
[22:48:13] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would love to be able to tell gravity to F-Off and have it work.
[22:48:25] <dmess> id
[22:48:28] <dmess> i do
[22:48:39] <Phydbleep> dmess: Yes, But it never forgets about you. :)
[22:48:59] <dmess> the 1st tim you hook into a thermal... its FU gravity
[22:49:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni blames newton
[22:49:47] <dmess> i blame the apple... again..
[22:49:54] <alex_joni> lol
[22:50:01] <alex_joni> was it the same apple?
[22:50:04] <alex_joni> must have been
[22:50:05] <dmess> eve was an apple too eh
[22:50:09] <alex_joni> apple is bad
[22:50:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sees a common thread involving apples and evil.
[22:50:24] <alex_joni> I think that's why I don't like iMacs
[22:50:24] <dmess> 1 bad apple spoils to lot
[22:50:24] <alex_joni> :D
[22:53:09] <alex_joni> night guys
[22:54:49] <paul_c> g'night alex_joni
[22:54:56] <Phydbleep> G'night alex_joni
[22:54:58] <Phydbleep> :)
[22:55:18] <asdfqwega> Argh...another storm rolling through
[22:55:32] <alex_joni> paul_c: heh.. so you've been hiding waiting for me to go away :D
[22:55:33] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega turns off the lights and hope the lightning doesn't notices he's home
[22:55:56] <paul_c> nah - I'd been tuning some stuff...
[22:56:06] <alex_joni> how's the TP stuff going?
[22:56:18] <paul_c> no comment.
[22:56:21] <alex_joni> ok
[22:56:22] <alex_joni> ;)
[22:56:36] <alex_joni> don't know if you got the mail on dev list
[22:56:44] <alex_joni> got emc2 to run on bdi-4.20
[22:56:45] <paul_c> which one ?
[22:57:27] <paul_c> Ah... Yesterday's posting.
[22:57:30] <alex_joni> yup
[22:57:49] <daryl> Sometimes when I run EMC it works, other times it doesn't... the display comes up without any error messages, but jogging doesn't do anything. Any thoughts?
[22:58:01] <paul_c> one small beef about a couple of commits
[22:58:10] <alex_joni> daryl: do you have debug turned on
[22:58:15] <alex_joni> paul_c: beef away
[22:58:15] <alex_joni> :D
[22:58:16] <daryl> Yeah..
[22:58:26] <alex_joni> does it look like smthg happens?
[22:58:32] <alex_joni> when you push the jog buttons?
[22:58:54] <daryl> yeah.. I see:
[22:58:55] <daryl> Issuing EMC_AXIS_JOG -- (+124,+24, +11, +0,-0.016667,)
[22:58:55] <daryl> Issuing EMC_AXIS_ABORT -- (+120,+16, +12, +0,)
[22:59:06] <paul_c> libnml/posemath/ - Shouldn't include anything outside the libnml tree
[22:59:08] <daryl> Display doesn't update tho.. and no pulses to motors.
[22:59:25] <daryl> Been playing around with cycle times and period, haven't had much luck.
[22:59:37] <alex_joni> paul_c: hmm, you have a point there
[23:00:15] <paul_c> if/when the compile warnings from including math.h get resolved
[23:00:15] <alex_joni> that can be fix either by defining a new wrapper around math.h from within libnml, or by applying the fix inside each libnml file that needs it
[23:00:39] <paul_c> the rtapi_math.h is redundant
[23:00:43] <daryl> If I hit F1 then F2, I hear the motors twitch momentarily, then stop.
[23:00:54] <alex_joni> well it does only that for now
[23:00:56] <daryl> This doesn't always happen... sometimes when I start emc, it just works.
[23:00:57] <anonimasu> hm
[23:01:01] <alex_joni> take care of that warning
[23:01:07] <alex_joni> daryl: strange
[23:01:15] <daryl> yeah
[23:01:19] <anonimasu> sounds like you get a ferror..
[23:01:42] <daryl> What normally happens when you press F1 then F2? Will it home?
[23:01:46] <anonimasu> no
[23:01:50] <anonimasu> it'll turn off estop
[23:01:52] <anonimasu> and turn the machine on..
[23:01:58] <daryl> Nothing else?
[23:02:03] <alex_joni> nothing else
[23:02:06] <anonimasu> if you get a ferror the machine will twitch...
[23:02:16] <anonimasu> just a bit..
[23:02:21] <anonimasu> when you re-enable them..
[23:02:22] <daryl> I get an ferror if I increase the cycle times for each axis high enough.
[23:02:33] <alex_joni> bye
[23:02:36] <daryl> Otherwise I don't.
[23:02:41] <anonimasu> hm, strange
[23:02:53] <paul_c> daryl: Is this with the BDI version ?
[23:03:02] <daryl> You going alex..? g'night.
[23:03:05] <daryl> oh.. too late.
[23:03:12] <daryl> paul_c, bdi-4 from cvs
[23:03:21] <daryl> branch of emc2
[23:03:30] <daryl> Running on with rtai-3.1
[23:04:08] <daryl> And the adeos patch that was inside the rtai-3.1.tar.bz2 file.
[23:04:14] <paul_c> currently, you press F1, F2, and the display shows non-zero on one or more axis ?
[23:04:24] <daryl> yeah
[23:04:29] <daryl> Just barely non-zero
[23:04:55] <paul_c> If you press F2 again, it should enable the machine
[23:05:24] <daryl> F2 again turns it off. The first f2 turned it on... isn't that right?
[23:05:33] <paul_c> (there is an errm "feature" in the PID loop that I need to track down..)
[23:06:00] <dmess> inverted signals.. cool
[23:06:35] <daryl> I can hit F1 and F2 all I want and the tkemc display updates as expected... but as soon as I jog, the display stops responding to F1/F2.
[23:06:36] <paul_c> If F2 turns the machine OFF, press F2 again.
[23:07:02] <daryl> Sure... says "on" on the display, but jog no worky. (unless it
[23:07:09] <daryl> 's in the mood to work this go at it)
[23:07:55] <paul_c> what distro is this built on ?
[23:08:04] <daryl> fc3
[23:10:01] <paul_c> I hate intermitant bugs....
[23:10:08] <daryl> No kidding.
[23:10:33] <daryl> I'm looking for anything at all that's different between when it works and it doesn't... but lately it's not working much more than working.
[23:11:25] <paul_c> when it isn't working, do any of the other keys or GUI buttons work ?
[23:13:30] <daryl> F5 and F3 work until I hit an arrow key to jog. Then none of the keys (as far as I can tell) work any more.
[23:14:34] <paul_c> when it stops, can you run dmesg and let me know if anything is logged after freqmod has started up
[23:15:11] <daryl> Hmm.. now it's working.
[23:16:32] <daryl> This isn't what you asked for, but is it important?:
[23:16:32] <daryl> ***** WARNING: GLOBAL HEAP NEITHER SHARABLE NOR USABLE FROM USER SPACE (use the vmalloc option for RTAI malloc) *****
[23:17:44] <paul_c> usual message from one of the RTAI modules
[23:18:20] <paul_c> do you know your way round the /proc file system ?
[23:18:35] <daryl> somewhat.
[23:18:56] <paul_c> /proc/emc, rtai, & adeos
[23:19:02] <daryl> I don't see "freqmod" in dmesg (when working or not)... is that word normally in dmesg?
[23:19:15] <paul_c> you running steppers ?
[23:19:29] <daryl> yeah.. and it's selected in the ini file.
[23:19:59] <paul_c> freqmod will print a bunch of stuff like "EMCMOT: "
[23:20:47] <daryl> I logged in in another shell... yeah, see that stuff.. will paste in a sec
[23:21:21] <daryl> emcmot: SHMEM_KEY = 100
[23:21:21] <daryl> emcmot: PERIOD = 90000ns
[23:21:21] <daryl> emcmot: IO_BASE_ADDRESS = 378
[23:21:21] <daryl> emcmot: EMCMOT_TASK_PRIORITY = 2
[23:21:21] <daryl> emcmot: EMCMOT_TASK_STACK_SIZE = 8192
[23:21:24] <daryl> emcmot: sizeof(RT_TASK) = 992
[23:21:25] <daryl> emcmot: emcmotStruct allocated at 0xCE990000 from rtai_kmalloc(100,688624)
[23:21:28] <daryl> Finished configuring emcmotStruct
[23:21:29] <daryl> emcmot: rtaiTickPeriod=107
[23:21:32] <daryl> emcmot: initializing freqTask for step/dir
[23:21:33] <daryl> emcmot: rtaiTickPeriod=107
[23:21:36] <daryl> emcmot: making freqTask periodic at a rate of 107 ticks or 89676 nanoseconds
[23:21:38] <daryl> emcmot: initializing emcmotTask
[23:21:40] <daryl> servoCycleTime=1000000ns
[23:21:41] <daryl> servoCycleTime=1193 ticks
[23:21:44] <daryl> emcmot: rtaiTickPeriod=107
[23:21:45] <daryl> emcmot: making emcmotTask periodic at a rate of 1177 ticks or 986440 nanoseconds
[23:21:49] <daryl> emcmot: init_module finished
[23:21:52] <daryl> freqFunc started.
[23:21:56] <daryl> emcmotController started.
[23:21:57] <daryl> Default Trap Handler: vector 14: Suspend RT task ce95fc20
[23:22:48] <paul_c> two things.... PERIOD @ 90uSec is way too slow
[23:23:17] <daryl> There was some rtai stuff above that... let me know if you want to see it.
[23:23:45] <daryl> What would you recommend for period?
[23:23:52] <daryl> 24usec locks it up
[23:23:57] <daryl> that was the default.
[23:25:08] <paul_c> if emc is still loaded
[23:25:22] <paul_c> check /proc/rtai/scheduler
[23:25:38] <daryl> [root@localhost rtai]# cat scheduler
[23:25:38] <daryl> RTAI Uniprocessor Real Time Task Scheduler.
[23:25:38] <daryl> Calibrated CPU Frequency: 2008946000 Hz
[23:25:38] <daryl> Calibrated timer interrupt to scheduler latency: 2689 ns
[23:25:38] <daryl> Calibrated one shot setup time: 2010 ns
[23:25:39] <daryl> Number of RT CPUs in system: 1
[23:25:41] <daryl> Priority Period(ns) FPU Sig State Task RT_TASK * TIME
[23:25:42] <daryl> -------------------------------------------------------------
[23:25:44] <daryl> 1 89676 No Yes 0x5 1 ce98df00 2
[23:25:46] <daryl> 2 9954072 Yes Yes 0x3 2 ce95fc20 0
[23:25:51] <daryl> TIMED
[23:25:54] <daryl> > ce98df00
[23:25:56] <daryl> READY
[23:27:05] <paul_c> Default Trap Handler: vector 14: Suspend RT task ce95fc20
[23:27:26] <paul_c> That means the servo loop has been suspended
[23:27:33] <paul_c> and isn't running
[23:28:01] <daryl> Servo loop... that in freqmod?
[23:28:56] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ has writen down his suggestion on emc fest about tool changers to a wiki page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ToolChangerImplementation
[23:28:58] <paul_c> servo loop is where much of the low level calcs are done
[23:29:34] <Imperator_> anonimasu: maybe you have time to look at it
[23:29:34] <daryl> Is that part of freqmod?
[23:30:00] <paul_c> the servo loop is part of all the *mod's
[23:30:36] <paul_c> freqmod has a stepper pulse generation loop, a servo loop, and a trajectory loop
[23:30:52] <daryl> ok.
[23:31:24] <paul_c> can you email me your ini file
[23:31:26] <daryl> Is there just one servo loop, or one for each motor?
[23:31:53] <daryl> Sure... I've been messing with the cycle times, so they probably don't reflect what originally made sense to me any more. :)
[23:32:09] <paul_c> one of each loop per module
[23:33:05] <daryl> What's your e-mail address?
[23:33:11] <paul_c> each loop does the same calcs for all axis (or motors)
[23:35:07] <daryl> On its way
[23:35:47] <anonimasu> Imperator_:
[23:35:51] <anonimasu> : it sounds about right
[23:36:15] <anonimasu> but I'd want to make some changes to it
[23:36:15] <anonimasu> :)
[23:36:16] <Imperator_> its only a suggeston and not compleat jet
[23:36:35] <Imperator_> thats why i had written it
[23:37:05] <anonimasu> *trying to find out how to edit stuff*
[23:37:14] <Imperator_> that others can improve it
[23:37:29] <Imperator_> on the first page of the wiki the first link
[23:37:53] <Imperator_> �h not the first link but : http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BasicSteps
[23:38:02] <anonimasu> yep
[23:38:04] <anonimasu> found it
[23:38:30] <anonimasu> how do you edit it?
[23:38:49] <paul_c> daryl: [TRAJ] CYCLE_TIME = 0.010 and [AXIS_n] CYCLE_TIME = 0.001
[23:38:53] <anonimasu> ah changed the wrong password ;)
[23:39:23] <daryl> I believe that's what was there before I started messing with it. I can put them back and give it a try again.
[23:39:40] <Imperator_> :-)
[23:39:47] <Imperator_> RTFM
[23:39:51] <Imperator_> hehe
[23:40:40] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:41:43] <daryl> ok.. They're back. Same behaviour.
[23:42:08] <daryl> Priority Period(ns) FPU Sig State Task RT_TASK * TIME
[23:42:08] <daryl> -------------------------------------------------------------
[23:42:08] <daryl> 1 89676 No Yes 0x5 1 ce98df00 2
[23:42:08] <daryl> 2 986440 Yes Yes 0x3 2 ce95fc20 2
[23:42:08] <daryl> TIMED
[23:42:09] <daryl> > ce98df00
[23:42:11] <daryl> READY
[23:42:25] <daryl> The time isn't 0 anymore.
[23:42:39] <paul_c> and the last few lines of dmesg ?
[23:43:07] <daryl> servoCycleTime=1000000ns
[23:43:07] <daryl> servoCycleTime=1193 ticks
[23:43:07] <daryl> emcmot: rtaiTickPeriod=107
[23:43:07] <daryl> emcmot: making emcmotTask periodic at a rate of 1177 ticks or 986440 nanoseconds
[23:43:07] <daryl> emcmot: init_module finished
[23:43:07] <daryl> freqFunc started.
[23:43:09] <daryl> emcmotController started.
[23:43:11] <daryl> Default Trap Handler: vector 14: Suspend RT task ce95fc20
[23:43:46] <daryl> Jogs print out the usual debug stuff, but nothing on the readout and no pulses.
[23:45:17] <paul_c> what processor are you running ?
[23:45:39] <daryl> model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2400+
[23:45:55] <daryl> This isn't the best motherboard in the world...
[23:46:08] <anonimasu> hm
[23:46:12] <anonimasu> Imperator_: : have a look in a bit..
[23:46:36] <paul_c> email the latest ini file
[23:46:38] <Imperator_> ok
[23:47:36] <Imperator_> anonimasu: hope my english is not that bad
[23:48:00] <anonimasu> ah I've changed it quite a bit ;)
[23:48:08] <Imperator_> :-)
[23:48:33] <daryl> On its way
[23:52:24] <paul_c> Can you reload EMC, but before pressing F1/F2, check dmesg for that "Default Trap Handler: vector 14: Suspend RT task ce95fc20" message
[23:52:40] <paul_c> and again after pressing F1
[23:52:47] <anonimasu> done
[23:52:49] <paul_c> and again after F2
[23:53:29] <daryl> Not there right away
[23:53:45] <daryl> Not there after F1
[23:54:00] <daryl> Not there after F2
[23:54:14] <Imperator_> anonimasu: it still shows only my stuff
[23:54:25] <paul_c> daryl: after a jog ?
[23:54:27] <daryl> Not there after jog... but this time it's working.
[23:54:38] <anonimasu> wait a sec ;)
[23:54:53] <daryl> Anything you want to see while it's working, or should I try again to see what happens when it doesn't work?
[23:55:14] <paul_c> daryl: When you compiled the kernel, did you enable APM and/or ACPI ?
[23:55:27] <anonimasu> just re-reading it
[23:55:28] <daryl> I think I disabled them this last time... I'll check.
[23:55:59] <daryl> Um.. I'm looking at my make menuconfig settings. Do you have a more direct way?
[23:56:25] <anonimasu> done...
[23:56:27] <anonimasu> check it out
[23:56:33] <paul_c> <kernel source dir>/.config
[23:56:45] <daryl> They're disabled in my build dir. And unless I'm losing it, that's the kernel I booted with.
[23:57:07] <paul_c> can ypu email the .config over
[23:57:18] <daryl> but... I see this in the .config:
[23:57:24] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ is reading
[23:57:25] <daryl> CONFIG_ACPI_BOOT=y
[23:59:16] <daryl> As far as I can see in make menuconfig, ACPI is disabled. Not sure what the above does.