#emc | Logs for 2005-04-30

[00:30:43] <asdfqwega> logger_aj, bookmark
[00:30:43] <asdfqwega> See
[01:19:20] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, how's the sensor/encoder design coming?
[01:19:36] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, I suggest that you just get it manufactured from the far east.
[01:21:16] <A-L-P-H-A> make the encoder about 3" dia. And you'd be okay for most things... or 4"xPi circumferance. Then that way you could have 0.01" trace/pulses without issue. and that's be 400 traces over the outter rim of the circumferance.
[01:22:23] <A-L-P-H-A> or I'm just thinking aloud
[01:22:26] <A-L-P-H-A> ignore me now.
[01:22:34] <A-L-P-H-A> pints + nachos here i come.
[02:43:12] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: fix CPU hog bug introduced with parser speedup
[04:26:05] <fifty_ohm> anyone here?
[04:50:51] <Phydbleep> Not me.. You're hallucinating. :)
[04:55:33] <Phydbleep> Woohoo!! Printing these things on acetate and the running it through the hot-laminator works!.. You just need to make sure
[04:55:54] <Phydbleep> that the person who does the print for you knows how to run the printer.
[04:59:22] <Phydbleep> It also helps if the girl running the printer is cute so you have some nice scenery while you wait. :)
[05:15:27] <Phydbleep> Well.. It sort of works.. The alminate is delaminating as I cut them out. :\
[05:21:38] <fifty_ohm> sounds like you didn't get it hot enough.
[05:21:52] <Phydbleep> Laminating acetate. :)
[05:21:59] <fifty_ohm> fun
[05:22:39] <Phydbleep> The laminate got hot enough to fuse to itself, but not the acetate.
[05:23:26] <fifty_ohm> I would think you'd need some sort of extra help in to glue it to the acetate.
[05:24:07] <fifty_ohm> "help to glue".... too many thoughts at once.
[05:24:31] <Phydbleep> I'm going to go back and try the acrylic/acetone/acetate sandwich idea and see if that will work better.
[05:25:03] <fifty_ohm> Gonna melt it together first eh?
[05:25:30] <Phydbleep> Wipe the acrylic with acetone and bunish the acetate sheet onto it printed side down.
[05:25:39] <Phydbleep> burnish
[05:25:55] <fifty_ohm> You doing photo transfer for boards or something similar?
[05:26:08] <Phydbleep> Shaft encoders. :)
[05:26:19] <fifty_ohm> Oh, cool.
[05:26:58] <Phydbleep> 4096 ppr 2" dia absolute positioning encoders.
[05:27:48] <Phydbleep> 0.0879 degree accuracy. :)
[05:28:02] <fifty_ohm> wow. That's some resolution. What pitch leadscrew you using?
[05:29:42] <Phydbleep> Whatever I can find.. The finer the pitch the better the precision.. I have 4 matched pieces of 1/2-10 acme out in the shop I was thinking of making an X/Y table out of to test this with...
[05:30:42] <fifty_ohm> I'm still trying to use regular all thread at the moment. Not much need for acme just yet (nor the bank account funds to support it). :)
[05:30:51] <Phydbleep> 1/2-10 should give 0.00002" acuracy with these.
[05:31:38] <fifty_ohm> So why using acetate instead of laser cut shimstock like most of the encoders use?
[05:31:52] <Phydbleep> fifty_ohm: Hehehe.. My acmes all came out of 1 bigscreen tv.. the 4 were the drive to run the cabinet up and down.
[05:32:08] <Phydbleep> fifty_ohm: Cheap! :)
[05:32:41] <Phydbleep> acetate is a lot cheaper than shim?
[05:33:40] <fifty_ohm> :) the best kind. I have some pillow blocks and hardened rod I'll be using for the support rails on mine. Got them from a diffusion furnace loader out of a fab. Dumpster treasure.
[05:34:42] <Phydbleep> And the girl running the printer last time did a superb job with the prints.. They're within 0.01 % of perfect for the pwm track. :)
[05:35:15] <fifty_ohm> Nice. Guess it doesn't hurt that she's cute. ;)
[05:35:22] <Phydbleep> I'd use prints from her for photomask to etch a set of brass ones. :)
[05:35:32] <Phydbleep> Too true.. :)
[05:52:55] <A-L-P-H-A> sup peeps?
[05:53:44] <fifty_ohm> trying to get axis working... no love
[05:53:59] <A-L-P-H-A> sounds like fun.
[05:54:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I got an order for parts... ~1000 CDN, material cost $150CDN... I've got the tooling already... maybe i'll need some endmills by the time I'm done.
[05:54:39] <fifty_ohm> if you like being frustrated and getting no where in a hurry. yeah
[05:55:00] <A-L-P-H-A> fifty_ohm, I'm using turbocnc. pretty dead simple to get up and operational. I just like talking CNC stuff in here.
[05:55:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I _NEED_ to eventualy get into emc.
[05:55:31] <A-L-P-H-A> fifty_ohm, so have you _HAD_ the axis working?
[05:55:37] <A-L-P-H-A> or just trying to make it work the first time?
[05:55:37] <fifty_ohm> I looked at turbocnc but I just HATE windows.
[05:55:47] <A-L-P-H-A> uh... turbocnc is not windows based.
[05:55:50] <A-L-P-H-A> it's dos based.
[05:55:53] <A-L-P-H-A> www.dakeng.com
[05:56:10] <A-L-P-H-A> freedos. msdos. pcdos. all work.
[05:56:13] <fifty_ohm> not yet. I'm new to debian so I'm fighting with the install and build methodology.
[05:56:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using freedos with turbocnc.
[05:56:39] <A-L-P-H-A> fifty_ohm, well... is this gonna be just the SHOP computer?
[05:56:50] <fifty_ohm> hmm.. didn't know that part. I'll have to look into that more.
[05:57:03] <A-L-P-H-A> if so, just use the BDI. it's a bieeacch otherwise.
[05:57:16] <fifty_ohm> Umm.... hehe. None of my computers ever end up being 'just' for any single purpose.
[05:57:35] <A-L-P-H-A> well, I don't want my NICE computer to be near the shop. Nor my laptop.
[05:57:43] <fifty_ohm> I'm on the BDI pc now. I like it so far. Just having to learn a different distro is all.
[05:57:59] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, apt-get. easy. done. :D
[05:58:14] <fifty_ohm> LOL.. who has nice computers. Mine are all throw away stuff from other people. :)
[05:58:16] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder if EMC will build nicely on ubuntu...
[05:58:23] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 01:58:44 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (0% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 757/1024MB (73.93%), C: 46.47gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 42.23gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2days 16mins 53secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[05:58:36] <A-L-P-H-A> shit, I'm using a lot of ram.
[05:59:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 01:59:32 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (0% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 733/1024MB (71.58%), C: 46.47gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 42.23gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2days 17mins 40secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[05:59:13] <fifty_ohm> hehe.. Well, ok. You have nice computers. I'm putting my money into hardened ways, tooling and motors.
[05:59:18] <A-L-P-H-A> no, still using lots of ram.
[05:59:32] <A-L-P-H-A> I want a nice new motor.
[05:59:33] <Phydbleep> [phydeaux@bleep bt]$ uptime
[05:59:33] <Phydbleep> 00:07:56 up 48 days, 7:16, 5 users, load average: 0.06, 0.05, 0.01
[05:59:50] <Phydbleep> That's not even a record for this box. :)
[05:59:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep... got any spare threadmill motors with PWM contoller boards?
[06:00:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I once had a 95box (or 98se) running for 4weeks...
[06:00:50] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Not right now.. I'm waiting for another batch.
[06:00:51] <A-L-P-H-A> all it did was be a ftp server. But was it slow after 4 weeks.
[06:01:14] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, wanna send over a threadmill motor? I'll pay for shipping, and make something nice for you with it! :D
[06:01:29] <fifty_ohm> my ftp server is a dual pentium 2 300 with 512M ram.
[06:01:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't have an ftp server anymore... I have a 60gig cap each month.
[06:01:54] <fifty_ohm> mail server is a dual pentium 2 450 with 512M ram
[06:01:57] <fifty_ohm> that sucks.
[06:02:23] <A-L-P-H-A> well, it's $50CDN a month... with cable tv.
[06:02:31] <A-L-P-H-A> so it ain't all that bad.
[06:02:43] <A-L-P-H-A> $50 + 15% tax.
[06:02:45] <A-L-P-H-A> :D/
[06:02:51] <A-L-P-H-A> fuck'n government.
[06:03:03] <fifty_ohm> not bad. Not sure I could live with the cap though. I have way too much traffic from my house.
[06:03:27] <Phydbleep> Get 2 and load balance. :)
[06:03:36] <fifty_ohm> hehe
[06:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> actually, my neight (best friend) has the same service. :D
[06:04:00] <A-L-P-H-A> just need him to get wifi.
[06:04:07] <A-L-P-H-A> and then :) it'd be shits and giggles.
[06:04:45] <fifty_ohm> break out the pringles cans
[06:05:44] <A-L-P-H-A> why? he's NEXT door.
[06:05:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I think we could point the antennas through a window.
[06:05:55] <fifty_ohm> oh. that's too easy
[06:06:07] <A-L-P-H-A> we could do ethernet.
[06:06:08] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Why not just run a cat5 line?
[06:06:13] <A-L-P-H-A> but he doesn't want to drill a hole in his wall.
[06:07:49] <Phydbleep> Run it through the same hole as the coax. :)
[06:08:21] <Phydbleep> You can get F / RJ-45 combo plates.
[06:09:21] <A-L-P-H-A> convince him, not me.
[06:10:00] <Phydbleep> I don't think he'll hear me yelling from hear. :)
[06:10:18] <Phydbleep> I don't think he'll hear me yelling from here.
[06:12:49] <fifty_ohm> Well, I finally got eagle running under debian. :) Now to get axis going.
[06:31:21] <fenn> <phydbleep> Jymmm: Anodize some transparent aluminum for me and I'll try it. :)
[06:31:25] <fenn> http://beverlytang.com/archives/materials/transparent_aluminum.html
[06:31:37] <fenn> what the hell are you waiting for???
[06:34:16] <Phydbleep> Try and get a sample.. It's made from 100% unobtainium..
[06:44:54] <fifty_ohm> time for bed. Later everyone.
[08:02:27] <Phydbleep> Brr.. !!!
[08:03:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is freezing his arse off.. 47F + acetone == COLD!
[08:03:58] <Phydbleep> And the acetone ate the damn pattern off the acetate. :\
[08:10:48] <Phydbleep> Actually NOT acetate.. Acetate would have reacted with the acetone and melted by now.
[08:13:42] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if this is a polyester film...
[08:37:58] <fenn> * fenn mumbles something about clear epoxy
[08:39:20] <Phydbleep> Yep.. Polyester film.. Crap..
[08:41:28] <Phydbleep> The toner is acetone soluble.. The poly film wants methylene-cloride (Whatever that nasty sounding stuff is) for a solvent..
[08:42:01] <fenn> paint stripper, being phased out due to environmental and health concerns
[08:42:40] <Phydbleep> Well the 'methyl' tells me mercury and I dont want to. :)
[08:42:56] <fenn> no methyl just means a single carbon group
[08:43:04] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is mad enough already from eating shrimp and tuna.
[08:43:11] <fenn> it's the chloride that causes problems
[08:43:39] <fenn> probably not much worse than acetone actually
[08:44:13] <Phydbleep> Chlorine? Isnt that what they use to purify water after fish have been fscking in it?
[08:44:19] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[08:45:21] <fenn> five hours til' i get my mill...
[08:45:32] <fenn> well get it on the truck at least
[08:45:45] <Phydbleep> Mill! Mill! Mill! :)
[08:45:59] <fenn> then three months of restoration
[08:46:05] <fenn> * fenn begins moaning.
[08:47:18] <fenn> i dont think i'm even gonna cnc the damn thing, too much trouble
[08:47:49] <fenn> maybe a DRO
[08:48:36] <Phydbleep> The encoders I'm working on will work for DRO.
[08:48:46] <fenn> yeah but what about backlash
[08:48:56] <Phydbleep> Moglice?
[08:49:09] <fenn> you can get zero backlash by squirting moglice on the nut?
[08:49:23] <Phydbleep> In the nut.
[08:49:40] <fenn> hmmmm..
[08:49:45] <Phydbleep> Look for refoming threads with moglice.
[08:49:51] <Phydbleep> reforming.
[08:50:32] <Phydbleep> Or you can add a spring loaded backlash nut.
[08:50:40] <fenn> well, i have no idea how bad of a condition the internals are in
[08:50:57] <Phydbleep> What's it weigh?
[08:51:06] <fenn> 1800 lbs :(
[08:51:29] <Phydbleep> Ow.. That would make my shop list to starboard for sure.. :)
[08:51:46] <fenn> well what the landlord doesn't know won't hurt him
[08:52:05] <fenn> i just hope the city doesn't evict us for over-occupancy right after i get the mill moved in
[08:52:20] <fenn> i'd probably just leave it :)
[08:52:27] <Phydbleep> The groun here is sand (mostly) next rain and he'd know.. The shop would be undeground. :)
[08:52:53] <fenn> doesn't your lathe weigh about that much?
[08:53:48] <Phydbleep> Lathe is ~700, table is ~600, + Who knows how much more in stock and tooling. :)
[08:54:38] <fenn> probably less than you'd expect in stock + tools
[08:55:00] <Phydbleep> Nope.. I moved it all.. :)
[08:55:10] <fenn> heh, a "strain gauge"
[08:55:32] <Phydbleep> Left nut, Mid calf..
[08:55:44] <Phydbleep> Hows that for a strain gauge?
[08:55:52] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[09:04:24] <Phydbleep> Now there's a thought.. Heat fuse the polyester film to a polycarbonate carrier disk...
[09:06:23] <fenn> why dont you buy some acetate sheet, have it printed, and then do it the way you were planning?
[09:07:31] <Phydbleep> Because acetate isn't acetate anymore, it's polyester film. :(
[09:07:40] <fenn> oh.
[09:08:08] <fenn> what's wrong with gluing it together?
[09:08:29] <Phydbleep> However the methyl-cloride solvent fot he polyester is also the solvent for lexan/polycarb. :)
[09:09:31] <Phydbleep> I wonder if the MC will eat the toner like the acetone did?
[09:09:40] <fenn> probably
[09:09:57] <fenn> why do you need to have a backer anyway?
[09:10:46] <fenn> i'm thinking clamp the film disc between two bushings on the encoder shaft
[09:10:49] <Phydbleep> The polyfilm is too flimsy.. I'd have to run a vacuum in the encoder shell to get it to be stable at high rpms.
[09:11:30] <fenn> what about clamp the film between two acrylic discs
[09:11:56] <Phydbleep> Too much space between the pattern and the sensor then.
[09:12:31] <Phydbleep> Bond the film to 1 disk (toner in) and it should work.
[09:16:43] <Phydbleep> I may just go get it printed to real (photo) film and then mounting it will be easy.
[09:17:10] <fenn> what is "real" film made of?
[09:18:01] <Phydbleep> Not a clew, but commercial negative stock is ~ 4x thicker than this xerox transoarency film.
[09:18:49] <Phydbleep> And I can get a clear sealer spray to stiffen it up more. :)
[09:20:42] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... And this is funny!.. One of my friends in the math dept at UNM want one of these for monitoring the angle of an inclined plane in a fluid dynamics experiment. :)
[09:21:42] <fenn> hey why not, charge him $20 and finance your whole project :)
[09:22:23] <fenn> add "technical consulting" if the govt is paying for it
[09:22:44] <Phydbleep> Even better.. His professor is footing the bill for the parts. :)
[09:23:16] <Phydbleep> And the university gets no claim on the design.. :)
[09:23:39] <fenn> yeah that's bullshit how universities steal people's independent works
[09:24:16] <fenn> if you're working at an engineering firm they don't get to have th copyright on your jet powered lawnmower
[09:24:24] <fenn> but if you're working at a uni they do
[09:24:33] <Phydbleep> I can GPL and disseminate faster than they can litigate. :)
[09:25:02] <fenn> heh. r-strategy meme
[09:25:37] <Phydbleep> r-strategy?
[09:26:09] <fenn> trees and fungus are k-strategy, they work by building up their body mass
[09:26:30] <fenn> humans and bacteria are r-strategy, based on reproducing more and more and more
[09:26:30] <Phydbleep> Ahh.. Viral/fungal model.
[09:27:21] <Phydbleep> Yes.. You can annoy the messenger, but you can't kill the message. :)
[09:29:14] <Phydbleep> BTW is there a way for me to edit that wiki page? Several things need or are out of context.
[09:29:53] <Phydbleep> Or do I just type it up and dump it on you? :)
[09:29:56] <fenn> yeah there are commands at the top and bottom of each page
[09:30:05] <fenn> go to the pge click "edit"
[09:30:14] <fenn> wiki source code is rather straightforward
[09:44:33] <fenn> gotta go make some space for this mill.. afk
[10:13:32] <robin_sz> meep?
[10:13:45] <robin_sz> so .. are we having fun yet?
[10:15:38] <Phydbleep> Not yet.. My acetate film turned out to be polyester. :\
[10:16:16] <Phydbleep> Acetone ate the toner and didn't touch the film. :\
[10:17:20] <robin_sz> trying to do pcb printing?
[10:19:27] <robin_sz> or just trying amusing ways of destroying stuff in acetone?
[10:21:27] <Phydbleep> Trying to bond an encoder disk to an acrylic carrier.
[10:22:02] <robin_sz> superglue?
[10:23:13] <robin_sz> there are glues for acrylic too, consider one of the polyurethane ones?
[10:23:36] <Phydbleep> I need it optically clear.. Transmissive wheel.
[10:24:26] <Phydbleep> I'm thinking a lexan arrier and methyl-cloride for a solvent.. If it's the right solvent for the polyfilm.
[10:28:45] <robin_sz> no ...
[10:28:56] <robin_sz> I meant a polyurethane adhesive
[10:29:20] <robin_sz> oh I see
[10:29:34] <robin_sz> you are trying to bond a disc to a wheel
[10:29:44] <robin_sz> thats never going to work :)
[10:30:07] <robin_sz> not and be optically clear
[10:31:06] <robin_sz> whats wrong with a disc with a say, 3mm greater radius than the disc?
[10:31:17] <robin_sz> put the encoding along the edge
[10:38:55] <robin_sz> I have to say .. all the encoder I have seen go to some trouble to make their codewheels as thin as possible ... maybe they are a bit daft, but I presume they have their reasons .. I would have thought the focus problems and light dispersion of bonding it to an acryllic disc would make high frequncy response poor
[11:04:44] <Phydbleep> Should be OK.. The sensor goes on the thin side of the wheel and the leds are strobed.
[11:09:00] <robin_sz> stroped?
[11:09:05] <robin_sz> strobed rather?
[11:11:59] <Phydbleep> Yeah.. 20MHz clock.. Lot's of spare cpu cycles to run leds. :)
[11:13:08] <robin_sz> cpu?
[11:13:13] <robin_sz> this thing has a cpu?
[11:13:19] <Phydbleep> Yeah. :)
[11:13:33] <robin_sz> its an optical encoder right?
[11:13:35] <Phydbleep> PIC 16F819. :)
[11:15:00] <Phydbleep> Yeah, The encoder has a pic in it to handle the PWM/Tach/Sync > I^2C conversion.
[11:15:10] <robin_sz> right
[11:15:37] <robin_sz> this is for yuor motion control thingy right, it needs an I2C encoder?
[11:16:11] <Phydbleep> The target with this was <$10 in parts including the shell. :)
[11:16:32] <robin_sz> at htat price, I'll buy one just to see
[11:16:41] <robin_sz> when will be shipping the kits?
[11:17:27] <Phydbleep> ROFL... Get in line.. I've got the second one going on a fluid dynamics experiment to get my name in Nature. :)
[11:17:41] <robin_sz> heh
[11:17:53] <robin_sz> well, when you do start to ship, let me know
[11:18:20] <Phydbleep> No kits yet.. Just GPL code and schematics.
[11:18:25] <robin_sz> how do you intend to make the shell?
[11:19:18] <Phydbleep> For full production, I'd use fiber filled nylon.
[11:19:23] <robin_sz> right
[11:19:58] <robin_sz> and what sort of price do you tink the final thing will go out at?
[11:21:27] <Phydbleep> I'm shooting for something that can be built for $8 an encoder and $10 a drive channel with a $10 data aggregator.
[11:22:15] <robin_sz> those presumably are your parts prices?
[11:23:09] <robin_sz> so retail they'll be 3 times that, but still cheap
[11:23:24] <Phydbleep> Yeah, ~ 50% higher for a full kit.
[11:23:36] <robin_sz> 50%?
[11:23:46] <Phydbleep> 5 channel set for $150. :)
[11:24:00] <Phydbleep> Assembly required.
[11:25:10] <robin_sz> sounds like you'll lose money at that rate
[11:25:36] <Phydbleep> Actually I think I can get it down to $15 for an assembled tested encoder. :)
[11:25:47] <Phydbleep> And still make money. :)
[11:25:51] <robin_sz> really?
[11:26:03] <robin_sz> most business run on 3 times parts cost to break even
[11:26:08] <Phydbleep> Really.. Silicon is cheap. :)
[11:27:35] <robin_sz> I think Mariss runs somewhere between 3 and 5 times parts cost
[11:27:42] <Phydbleep> I'm friends with a rep for a whole network of small manufacturers in China. They love things like this and manage to get fat and happy. :)
[11:28:01] <robin_sz> oh yes, if you do it in china, you could keep the costs down
[11:28:40] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. i'm actually hoping to get a demo set over to Sieg. :)
[11:28:59] <robin_sz> could be intersting
[11:29:27] <robin_sz> the front end is EMC?
[11:29:37] <robin_sz> or will it work with Mach2 etc?
[11:30:02] <Phydbleep> EMC or anything where you can work with the interface layer.
[11:30:33] <robin_sz> so the realtime stuff is on the hardware or in the PC?
[11:31:11] <Phydbleep> Hardware.. 3MBit I^2C link between the pieces.
[11:31:26] <robin_sz> right, thats nice then
[11:32:47] <Phydbleep> I tried a hot laminate on the encoders for stability, but it didnt bond for crap.. :\
[11:32:58] <robin_sz> I think for mass-market stuff like Sieg, being able to run from a non-realtime OS onthe PC side will be a major plus
[11:33:34] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I wanted something that you could hang a 4x40 LCD on and ose as a DRO. :)
[11:33:42] <Phydbleep> s/ose/use
[11:34:38] <robin_sz> dro's are cheap anyway
[11:35:07] <robin_sz> those cheap chinese scales
[11:35:32] <Phydbleep> Yeah, but can you poll the cheap ones for the last 100 moves? :)
[11:36:14] <robin_sz> for a DRO or motion cotnroller?
[11:36:22] <Phydbleep> Yes. :)
[11:36:23] <robin_sz> two different apps
[11:36:33] <Phydbleep> Same encoder. :)
[11:36:48] <robin_sz> but different apps and different results
[11:37:07] <robin_sz> a true DRO is not dependent on the accuracy of the leadscrew or the bearing play
[11:37:30] <robin_sz> thus you get to use crap leadsrews and keep accuracy
[11:37:49] <robin_sz> hence rennishaw encoders etc
[11:37:57] <robin_sz> http://www.shumatech.com/products/dro-350/index.htm
[11:37:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep uses spring-nuts and such to keep the backlash down.
[11:39:20] <robin_sz> the shumatech kits are interesting
[11:39:24] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I've seen that one.. Too amny leds to multiplex for me. :)
[11:39:58] <robin_sz> shrug, its popular with users, they dont need to know whats going on underneath
[11:40:03] <Phydbleep> I'd rather use a 320x240 backlit lcd .
[11:40:59] <Phydbleep> Less things to go wrong in the assembly process that way.. Plug in 1 cable instead of building/debugging a display board.
[11:42:00] <robin_sz> and presumably standard quadrature output will be available on the encoder too?
[11:42:58] <Phydbleep> It can be.. It's easy to redo the disks for different apps.
[11:43:38] <robin_sz> cant the micro just be set to utout quad instead of i2c?
[11:43:42] <Phydbleep> Quad could actully be faked in software. :)
[11:43:59] <robin_sz> yep, thats easier .. one encoder, several outputs
[11:44:18] <robin_sz> now .. if you could output chinses scale foramt, it would work nicely with shumatech
[11:44:31] <robin_sz> that would open your market up a bit too
[11:44:38] <robin_sz> theres a lot of people building them
[11:45:30] <Phydbleep> These are going to use ICSP so they could be re-flashed for whatever output.
[11:47:14] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is fighting allergies and allergy pills at the moment.
[11:47:18] <robin_sz> actuall the shumatech thing is fairly fscking brian dead .. chinese scale is a daft format in the first place, converting from quad to chinese just so you can covnvert it back into someting sane to use in the dro is a sure sign of madness
[11:47:41] <fenn> phyd run cold water over your hands.. not pleasant but it actually works unlike most allergy pills
[11:47:54] <fenn> especially on the wrists
[11:49:16] <Phydbleep> Eh.. I took a run through the shower on "slow-boil" and the steam helped.. Now if the pill would turn loose of my brain. :)
[11:49:49] <robin_sz> mind altering drugs and software, never a good combination
[11:50:01] <robin_sz> and I can prove it ...
[11:50:07] <fenn> mind altering software always goes good with everything!
[11:50:09] <robin_sz> here, I submit as exhibit 1 ...
[11:50:15] <Phydbleep> OS/2?
[11:50:17] <robin_sz> "the EMC codebase"
[11:50:23] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[11:50:43] <robin_sz> anyway, I foregt why I cam e here ...
[11:50:52] <robin_sz> probably just to taunt Jymm again ;)
[11:50:53] <Phydbleep> ROFLOK.. Who's been bogarting it?
[11:50:55] <fenn> because you have no social life like the rest of us?
[11:51:05] <robin_sz> ah yes.
[11:51:09] <robin_sz> that could be it
[11:51:23] <robin_sz> maybe i should go play on my bike instead
[11:51:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has an anti-social life.. Cheaper that way. :)
[11:51:43] <fenn> you should immediately do the most dangerous thing you can think of that is still legal
[11:51:58] <robin_sz> I refer you to my previous comment ;)
[11:52:08] <robin_sz> maybe i should go play on my bike instead
[11:52:08] <Phydbleep> Go to the kitchen and drink tap-water?? EEWWWWWW!
[11:53:38] <fenn> phyd what if you "bearings" to support your flimsy encoder disc, like in a woodworking bandsaw
[11:53:56] <Phydbleep> You did say the most dangerous legal thing I could think of.. Juggling chainsaws is a close second..
[11:54:05] <fenn> maybe even just clip it between an led and sensor
[11:54:08] <robin_sz> you are ellergic to tap water?
[11:54:22] <Phydbleep> The toner will rub off with a laser printed disk.
[11:54:49] <robin_sz> what about the encoders in cheap ink jets ...
[11:54:52] <robin_sz> seen them?
[11:54:58] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: No, I'm in albuquerque and the tap-water is haz-mat. :)
[11:55:03] <robin_sz> ah.
[11:55:03] <fenn> i've got one, damned if i know what to do with it
[11:55:11] <fenn> cheap linear encoder strip that is
[11:55:21] <robin_sz> in the UK, tap water is pretty damn good
[11:55:37] <robin_sz> yeah, they are failry good and have cheap sensors
[11:56:05] <fenn> is the sensor on the cartridge holder? the black thermoset plastic thing
[11:56:12] <robin_sz> the build cost of a small inkjet ( I think it was an HP deskjet of some flavour) was given by HP as $16
[11:56:18] <fenn> wow
[11:56:46] <robin_sz> they reckoned shipping from the far east was a similar price
[11:57:09] <Phydbleep> Lucky you. We have traces of every mineral known to man including asphalt in the water. :(
[11:57:16] <robin_sz> ick
[11:57:25] <fenn> ever heard of anyone hacking a printer cartridge/software to print a whole wall in CMYK?
[11:57:29] <robin_sz> in the UK its rare to use bottled water
[11:57:40] <robin_sz> yeah, I thought of it a few times
[11:57:56] <robin_sz> fenn: I was going to use chains to supprt the gantry
[11:57:59] <fenn> definitely a niche market waiting to be fulfilled
[11:58:02] <Phydbleep> fenn: 8"x10" printpath?
[11:58:04] <robin_sz> fenn: and air brusshes
[11:58:24] <robin_sz> fenn: there are people blowing coloured chalk to do murals
[11:58:42] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: mor like 20 foot by 100 foot
[11:58:43] <fenn> i saw a can of spraypaint with a solenoid and cables hooked up to steppers
[11:58:49] <robin_sz> ick
[11:58:55] <fenn> computer controlled graffiti.. was really cool
[11:58:57] <robin_sz> air brushes are the way to go
[11:59:09] <Phydbleep> fenn: Hehehe.. did you see the dot-matrix bicycle?
[11:59:13] <fenn> dunno about that.. you have to run hoses to it and everything
[11:59:34] <robin_sz> I spent many hours trying to figur out how to do it on concrete cooling towers for power sations
[11:59:41] <fenn> i saw a dot-matrix portrait of someone or other
[12:00:12] <robin_sz> seen the big printers they use for haording and hangin on scaffolds over entire buildings?
[12:00:20] <robin_sz> BIG inkjet
[12:00:20] <fenn> robin_sz, that's not hard just put rollerskates under it and wrap the cables around the tower
[12:00:31] <Phydbleep> This was a 6 or 8 can spray chalk unit... Ride it down the street and it would print text behind you.
[12:00:44] <robin_sz> heh
[12:02:48] <fenn> hmm cant seem to find it again
[12:04:07] <fenn> i love seeing stuff just appear on a wiki with no prodding at all
[12:04:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wants paint with a programmable surface tension.. in paintballs... That I coould load in a paintgun and use to paint "DUMBASS" down the side of the next DUI that takes out my fence..
[12:04:42] <fenn> you just need a more accurate paintball gun
[12:04:49] <fenn> with a computer controlled tripod
[12:06:00] <Phydbleep> I just want to fire 1 or 7 rounds to do it... If I wanted to paint his car I'd just dump a 5 gallon bucket of enamel over it.
[12:07:03] <fenn> oh, you mean shoot paintballs at the car... >:)
[12:08:15] <Phydbleep> We cured one of the local the bass boomer swith several 5 gallon buckets of salt water through the windows.
[12:08:53] <Phydbleep> Snap, Crackle, Pop.. :)
[12:09:45] <Phydbleep> Never mount 500 watt amps under the seat in my neighborhood. :)
[12:10:15] <fenn> gee phyd why don't you just build a machine gun and go postal
[12:11:03] <Phydbleep> I'd run out of lead for bullets in about 12 seconds?
[12:11:13] <Phydbleep> Hehehw.. :)
[12:13:16] <fenn> * fenn needs to get back to work.
[12:13:26] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs to go fall over.
[12:13:41] <Phydbleep> fenn: Go get your mill!
[12:13:46] <Phydbleep> :)
[12:13:59] <Phydbleep> G'nite all. :)
[13:11:01] <CIA-8> 03swpadnos * 10emc2/src/emc/task/emctaskmain.cc: add reparsing speedup to HEAD
[13:42:23] <punk84_> .
[13:55:34] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[16:40:21] <alex_joni_> hey les
[16:41:48] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[16:41:54] <robin_z> Oi! keep it down, some of us are sleeping ;)
[16:42:08] <alex_joni> meepety
[16:42:15] <alex_joni> how's the stamping?
[16:42:16] <robin_z> meep
[16:42:18] <robin_z> fine
[16:42:28] <robin_z> catalogues have gone out
[16:42:34] <robin_z> 3 weeks to the sales
[16:42:36] <alex_joni> nice
[16:43:06] <alex_joni> what stamps do you sell?
[16:43:08] <robin_z> it takes a week just to stick lablels on and put them in DHL bags
[16:43:13] <robin_z> expensive ones :)
[16:43:52] <alex_joni> any expensive ones?
[16:43:58] <robin_z> pretty much, yes
[16:44:13] <alex_joni> right..
[16:44:52] <robin_z> we hold 7 out of 10 world records for prices acheived at auction for stamps
[16:45:14] <robin_z> we also hold the world record for selling the worlds most expensive item by both weight and volume
[16:45:50] <robin_z> that was when we sold a stamp know as "the blue boy" ...
[16:46:19] <robin_z> feel free to guess the price
[16:48:54] <alex_joni> 5M quid?
[16:49:05] <robin_z> not a bad guess
[16:49:16] <alex_joni> far?
[16:49:30] <robin_z> actually 1m USD
[16:49:38] <alex_joni> pretty ok
[16:49:46] <robin_z> actually I was wrong
[16:49:53] <robin_z> that one wasnt the record
[16:50:01] <alex_joni> how about a blue mauritius?
[16:50:10] <robin_z> http://www.davidfeldman.com/about/aboutus_worldrec.htm
[16:50:33] <robin_z> we sold a mauritius 2d blue for 1.4m USD
[16:51:09] <robin_z> and we sold the "bordeaux" cover (a mauritius blue and red on a single cover) for US 5m
[16:51:47] <alex_joni> nice
[16:51:49] <robin_z> us dollars 5m
[16:52:01] <robin_z> thats a lot for an old envelope
[16:52:11] <robin_z> beats me why people buyt em ;)
[16:52:12] <alex_joni> I used to look as a kid through catalogues
[16:52:16] <alex_joni> michell iirc
[16:52:21] <robin_z> yeah
[16:52:33] <robin_z> SG and michell, scott in the US etc
[16:52:43] <alex_joni> I used to like that stamp that got cut in two
[16:52:53] <alex_joni> can't remember the name
[16:52:57] <robin_z> me neither
[16:53:18] <alex_joni> some ocean liner captain had no stamps available
[16:53:23] <alex_joni> only double value
[16:53:32] <alex_joni> so he cut them all in half
[16:53:55] <robin_z> basically, we do all the major collections. if a big collection come to market, we usually get the contract
[16:54:59] <robin_z> not that I collect stamps myself you understand
[16:55:44] <alex_joni> http://www.abfimagazine.com/stampcollecting/data/stamps_b.htm
[16:56:47] <robin_z> ah yes, curacao
[16:57:00] <robin_z> bisects are fairly common
[16:57:06] <robin_z> it happened quite a lot
[16:57:13] <alex_joni> yup
[17:00:50] <alex_joni> anyways
[17:00:55] <alex_joni> catch you later
[17:01:06] <alex_joni> have the festers stopped festering?
[17:01:27] <robin_z> no eyed dear
[17:01:38] <robin_z> Ive seen little outcome from it ...
[17:01:57] <alex_joni> well.. at least some decisions have been taken
[17:02:11] <robin_z> ?
[17:02:16] <robin_z> URI?
[17:02:37] <alex_joni> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ProgrammerDecisions_Fest_2005
[17:05:02] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to get the easter bunny
[17:05:12] <robin_z> well
[17:05:16] <alex_joni> laters
[17:05:19] <robin_z> right
[17:05:21] <robin_z> later
[17:05:25] <alex_joni> ;)
[17:05:34] <alex_joni> it's never too late :P
[17:05:49] <alex_joni> but rest assured.. what's not on that list will follow
[17:06:06] <robin_z> I just love the "whoosh"ing sound a deadline makes as it flies past ;)
[17:06:13] <alex_joni> heh
[17:06:20] <alex_joni> time is relative
[17:06:31] <alex_joni> but it's always too short
[17:06:33] <robin_z> time flies like an arrow
[17:06:40] <robin_z> but fruit flies like a banana
[17:07:26] <alex_joni> right
[17:07:27] <alex_joni> ok...
[17:07:29] <alex_joni> bye
[17:07:31] <robin_z> bye#
[17:43:35] <fenn> feh
[17:44:26] <fenn> life is unfair
[17:44:45] <robin_z> it is?
[17:44:56] <fenn> usually
[17:45:57] <fenn> i had a van norman 12 in the scrap yard, guy said he'd sell it to me for $200, i show up to get it and it's gone. nobody knows where it went
[17:46:34] <robin_z> thats not unfair
[17:46:35] <fenn> after i spend a week figuring out how to get it in the house, rearranging my shop to make it fit, etc
[17:47:03] <fenn> well it woulda' been the first real machine tool i've ever had
[17:47:12] <robin_z> you screwed up, you should have 1) paid half for it up front
[17:47:20] <fenn> they wouldn't do that
[17:47:27] <robin_z> paid all up front then
[17:47:34] <les> heloo
[17:47:49] <robin_z> gone back same day
[17:47:56] <les> plenty more old tools around
[17:48:01] <robin_z> thats true
[17:48:03] <fenn> * fenn pouts.
[17:48:24] <dmess> hello
[17:48:26] <dmess> all
[17:48:32] <robin_z> tools are basically free, its the space an hualage that costs
[17:48:45] <les> yeah
[17:48:51] <fenn> yeah well the space and haulage would have been free
[17:49:02] <fenn> i'll stop whining.
[17:49:05] <A-L-P-H-A> BAH! Girls are so unreliable.
[17:49:15] <les> you noticed
[17:49:25] <robin_z> fenn: well, heres a lesson then, next time you see a bargain, bite it.
[17:49:31] <dmess> alpha... you been stood up eh..
[17:49:38] <A-L-P-H-A> no, delayed.
[17:49:41] <robin_z> fenn: how long did you spend from seeing it to going to get it?
[17:49:51] <fenn> two weeks
[17:49:52] <A-L-P-H-A> stood up will be when dinner goes by.
[17:49:53] <dmess> same difference
[17:50:09] <fenn> took one week to arrange getting the trailer, then was delayed another week because of the stupid trailer
[17:50:15] <robin_z> A-L-P-H-A: I cannot comment if they are unreliable without first seeing jpegs
[17:50:31] <robin_z> fenn: so 14 days total?
[17:50:41] <fenn> i dont remember
[17:50:48] <robin_z> well, Id say more ..
[17:50:56] <robin_z> I remember you askig about the trailer
[17:51:11] <robin_z> it was at least 3 weeks I think
[17:51:18] <fenn> yeah probably
[17:51:21] <robin_z> stuff doesnt sit about in scrap yards
[17:51:26] <robin_z> it moves, fats
[17:51:31] <robin_z> especially bargains
[17:51:35] <robin_z> fast
[17:52:21] <robin_z> I bet he had several offers and took the first one that handed oveer greenbacks
[17:52:59] <robin_z> anyway, you'll get another
[17:53:11] <les> I still have not gone down to grab a bridgeport in atlanta
[17:53:23] <les> Perhaps paul and I will go
[17:53:25] <robin_z> interact?
[17:53:37] <les> depends
[17:53:38] <fenn> no, i'll waste away in my rat cave and die a pathetic death before i ever get a milling machine
[17:53:45] <les> would like a tool changer
[17:53:49] <robin_z> yeah
[17:54:06] <robin_z> heres a thing ..
[17:54:12] <robin_z> pull studs on tools
[17:54:26] <dmess> build a pick and place t/c... all macro programming..
[17:54:28] <robin_z> if one fails .. how much damage does it do?
[17:54:32] <robin_z> and the answer is:
[17:54:42] <robin_z> 1$ per rpm :)
[17:55:14] <dmess> not on a Chiron t/c..
[17:55:19] <robin_z> did you get your spindle les?
[17:55:54] <les> I am waiting to see how we do with segmentqueue
[17:56:09] <robin_z> I thought you had one coming?
[17:56:21] <les> just a quote
[17:56:25] <robin_z> right
[17:56:50] <robin_z> I'll take a guess on segmentqueue
[17:56:50] <les> but if SQ does not work a bigger spindle will be useless
[17:57:03] <robin_z> you'll get it very nearly fixed
[17:57:19] <robin_z> fixed enough to give too much hope that it wont ever be fixed
[17:57:26] <les> heh
[17:57:28] <robin_z> but not actually fixed enough ...
[17:58:18] <fenn> hey about the trajectory planner, you should definitely code it so that it would be easy to switch to an algorithm that uses constant tool speed instead of adhering slavishly to the tool path
[17:58:31] <fenn> even if you haven't actually coded that algorithm
[17:58:36] <robin_z> well
[17:58:46] <robin_z> in a sane implementation yes
[17:59:07] <robin_z> emc is a bit more twisted than most and things dont just plug in
[17:59:08] <les> it does constant tool speed unless you send it g-code that is impossible to do
[17:59:26] <robin_z> hmmm
[17:59:35] <les> in that case it slows down until it is possible
[17:59:51] <dmess> thit is a good thing
[18:00:02] <fenn> could you have a pre-interpreter that would modify the code to make it workable?
[18:00:04] <robin_z> hmmm
[18:00:27] <les> I suppose
[18:00:31] <robin_z> remember that ANY two g1 moves other than a straight line in thoery require an exact stop
[18:00:58] <robin_z> anything else is just acceptable smoothing, with some error
[18:01:22] <fenn> oh, so you can get the same result by increasing the allowable error?
[18:01:40] <dmess> it needs 2 modes... exact stop mode... and 3-d mode where smoothing takes place
[18:01:51] <robin_z> quite
[18:01:56] <les> well SQ does miss points
[18:02:06] <fenn> i think it would be better to specify exactly how much error you're willing to accept
[18:02:07] <dmess> siemens uses a g64 for exact stop mode..
[18:02:08] <les> but not by much if they are close together
[18:02:56] <robin_z> one solution is to define an angle at which it switches from smoothed to exact stop
[18:03:13] <dmess> you should be able to program 3d to act like exact stop
[18:03:14] <les> Well if we can't get SQ fixed...goodbye emc
[18:03:16] <fenn> * fenn has been awake too long to think about this kind of math.
[18:03:33] <robin_z> we'll see by the end of next week I guess
[18:03:39] <les> yup
[18:03:55] <les> paul should show up any time
[18:04:02] <robin_z> anytime now?
[18:04:07] <les> I was just cleaning up the guest room
[18:04:09] <dmess> im still searchin for a piece of manual for you les
[18:04:16] <les> had a bunch of crap in there
[18:04:38] <robin_z> remind me to visit someday :)
[18:04:49] <les> heh ok
[18:05:41] <robin_z> im going to Washington in May 2006
[18:05:50] <robin_z> wherever that is
[18:06:01] <les> there was seemingly no activity on SQ at the fest
[18:06:11] <les> city? or state?
[18:06:30] <robin_z> are they different?
[18:06:39] <les> um yeah
[18:06:45] <robin_z> city i think
[18:06:51] <les> ok
[18:07:03] <les> that is where paul is driving down from
[18:07:09] <les> prob on the road now
[18:07:16] <robin_z> how many hours?
[18:07:26] <les> 8 or so
[18:07:28] <les> 6 or 8
[18:07:30] <robin_z> right
[18:08:59] <les> Martin was going to come too but he could not get his flight back changed
[18:09:53] <les> during this week we will also have glentek cnc come
[18:10:18] <les> if SQ poops this whole cnc router bit will be down thw tubes
[18:12:02] <fenn> i will put in a feature request re: sq so you don't forget about it :)
[18:12:14] <les> heh
[18:22:37] <les> well will get off for a bit so I can run flight simulator...but would rather be in a real plane!
[18:23:03] <les> later
[20:39:46] <punk84_> well it looks like the limit switches work ok
[21:56:21] <fifty_ohm> fifty_ohm is now known as fifty_ohm-afk
[22:10:17] <Phydbleep> Now that's a cute pair.. Analog Devices ADXRS300 (+/-300 degrees/sec Rate gyro) / ADXL320 (2 axis, +/- 5g Accelerometer).. http://www.analog.com
[22:42:37] <fenn> hey phydbleep someone stole the mill out from under me
[22:42:57] <fenn> now i will plunge headlong into a pit of despair
[22:48:59] <Phydbleep> Bummer!.. You must track him down and spray paint his dog an atrocious color. :)