#emc | Logs for 2005-04-27

[00:08:14] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[00:15:20] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sighs *
[03:05:55] <A-L-P-H-A> damn. dmess isn't around.
[03:09:58] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A What, you dont love me anymore?! sniff
[06:30:18] <A-L-P-H-A> can someone dns www.usshoptools.com I need the ip.
[06:40:49] <Phydbleep> Non-authoritative answer:
[06:40:49] <Phydbleep> Name: www.usshoptools.com
[06:40:49] <Phydbleep> Address:
[06:48:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, thanks.
[06:48:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't get in...
[06:48:40] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid dns is messing up for me.
[06:48:44] <A-L-P-H-A> can you actually get into that site?
[07:06:37] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Hang on a sec.
[07:09:29] <Phydbleep> OK.. What do you want to know?
[07:09:48] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Are you usin firefox?
[07:12:00] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[07:12:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using firefox
[07:13:03] <A-L-P-H-A> trying to get some product numbers, so Ic an order them tomorrow
[07:15:08] <Phydbleep> OK.. What's the parts?
[07:16:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ER collet extensions (if you can pass me the PDF)
[07:17:00] <A-L-P-H-A> and ER collets.
[07:20:12] <Phydbleep> ER? Lathe? mill?
[07:20:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is stuck with lynx to get it and get it to you.
[07:20:54] <A-L-P-H-A> mill.
[07:20:58] <A-L-P-H-A> if you find those, it's like second nav bar form the top... products -> er collect extensions
[07:21:17] <fenn> what are you guys trying to do?
[07:21:29] <A-L-P-H-A> well.. trying to get PDFs off that website [above]
[07:21:39] <fenn> sorry i just logged on, what's the address?
[07:22:19] <A-L-P-H-A> buahhaha
[07:22:30] <A-L-P-H-A> lynx doesn't support frames.
[07:22:32] <A-L-P-H-A> so I can't log in.
[07:22:33] <A-L-P-H-A> :/
[07:22:36] <A-L-P-H-A> fackers
[07:22:57] <fenn> just give me your password. trust me, i'm an anarchist :)
[07:22:57] <A-L-P-H-A> omg... my DNS works again!
[07:23:43] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: And I had just found/got them. :)
[07:24:04] <A-L-P-H-A> well, my DNS server has been down for an hour.
[07:24:12] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry to make you do all that for nothing.
[07:24:34] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Download them to your local machine. :)
[07:24:40] <A-L-P-H-A> I just did.
[07:24:54] <fenn> well if that ever happens again, just ask someone to find the IP number for you
[07:25:45] <Phydbleep> fenn: Been there, Done that..
[07:28:16] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, :D
[07:28:24] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- wish he was a newb again.
[07:28:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm leeching all the PDFs off that site now.
[07:28:47] <A-L-P-H-A> gah.
[07:28:50] <fenn> anyone using kde? trying to figure out how to change default settings, like when i click on an irc://freenode.net link it tries to use Kopete (sux) instead of X-chat (rocks)
[07:29:15] <Phydbleep> fenn: mime types?
[07:30:08] <fenn> i cant seem to find where to set mime type associations
[07:31:07] <fenn> who ever thought of a help manual without a search function
[07:31:19] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[07:31:36] <fenn> it's really common these days to not be able to search help manuals
[07:33:51] <Phydbleep> fenn: control-panel > kde
[07:34:39] <Phydbleep> Sorry, "Control Center" Then "kde opts"
[07:34:48] <fenn> okay, i already looked through all the "file associations" and there's no IRC anywhere to be found
[07:35:06] <fenn> seems it relies on file extensions, which is different than mime types (right?)
[07:36:04] <Phydbleep> Yeah.
[07:37:21] <fenn> hmmm in control center there is a search box that directs me to "file associations" when i type in "mime types"
[07:39:50] <Phydbleep> fenn: Component Chooser!
[07:41:01] <Phydbleep> It only has Kopete for IM though. :\
[07:41:16] <fenn> well that's where it ought to have been
[07:41:27] <fenn> i'm about ready to give up on this one
[07:43:26] <fenn> seems like this issue came up on the kde mailing list around 1999
[07:51:04] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, tried #KDE?
[07:51:42] <fenn> no i shoulda thought of that
[08:18:14] <fenn> sheesh
[08:28:58] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn? and?
[08:29:58] <fenn> x-chat crashed
[08:30:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep? where you trying to make a highspeed spindle?
[08:30:45] <fenn> d/l'ing konversation and still trying to figure out how to change irc:// application
[08:40:54] <fenn> well the answer to my problem was you have to edit /usr/share/services/irc.protocol and change exec=kopete to exec=xchat then log out and log in to refresh the system config
[08:46:27] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: I've got one one the back burner for later.. Collecting parts for it now.
[08:46:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[08:46:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm think I'm gonna order a ER-11 collet tomorrow.
[08:47:29] <Phydbleep> I have the collet and shaft from a dead Chinese die-grinder at the moment.
[08:47:40] <A-L-P-H-A> bearings would such.
[08:47:46] <A-L-P-H-A> air? or electric?
[08:47:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't believe my apache server died. :/
[08:48:09] <Phydbleep> Electric, It ahd a coupler between this shaft and the motor.
[08:48:15] <Phydbleep> had
[08:48:49] <A-L-P-H-A> how'd it die?
[08:49:05] <A-L-P-H-A> what was it's speed?
[08:49:22] <Phydbleep> Cheap Chinese die-grinder. 14k :)
[08:49:50] <A-L-P-H-A> electric? brushes shot?
[08:49:56] <A-L-P-H-A> how long did it run for?
[08:50:52] <Phydbleep> Cause of death was bad engineering, Blown thermal fuse and radical re-arrangment of the plastic housing at high-velocity.
[08:51:15] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[08:52:03] <Phydbleep> Brush holders melted, thermal fuse popped, Guy bounced it off a cinder-block wall at 75mph(?).. :)
[08:52:08] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44914 I wonder.
[08:53:09] <Phydbleep> 25% duty cycle.. ~5 hours till self-destruct.
[08:53:28] <Phydbleep> That's my opinion of that one.
[08:54:09] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44914 hmm... supposed .26Kw motor.
[08:54:23] <fenn> on the subject of HF, is their "inside track club" worth joining?
[08:54:32] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno.
[08:54:38] <Phydbleep> Replace the case, bearings and cooling fan and it would last ~50 hours @ 100% duty cycle.
[08:54:55] <A-L-P-H-A> they sucked me into buying their cheap ass Indian made 4" rotary table.
[08:55:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, ~50 hours? :/
[08:55:28] <fenn> "replace the case"???
[08:56:12] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793 HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
[08:56:12] <Phydbleep> Yeah, replace it with something set up for forced air cooling..
[08:56:17] <A-L-P-H-A> wonder what the duty cycle is on that.
[08:56:27] <fenn> why not just make your own from scratch if you're gonna go that far
[08:56:42] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: 50%-75%
[08:56:44] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43585
[08:57:01] <A-L-P-H-A> think it'd last longer if I cracked the case, and attached a fan?
[08:57:12] <Phydbleep> 25%
[08:57:39] <Phydbleep> Bearings will be the failure point on the 3hp.
[08:57:52] <fenn> i bet that "1.5 hp router" is rated with the "how much current can we pass through the windings before they vaporize" test
[08:58:03] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleepy, I'm actually just using it for the motor, not the spindle.
[08:58:22] <Phydbleep> fenn: It's a bitch to build a high-speed brush motor from scratch. :)
[08:58:27] <A-L-P-H-A> so the bearings can go to hell, as long as they still spin.
[08:59:04] <fenn> is there any advantage to using a high speed motor vs a low speed w/pulley speed increase?
[08:59:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep gives it 120 hours MTBF
[08:59:29] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, motor runs cooler with the pulley setup, but still need the HP...
[08:59:37] <A-L-P-H-A> as you step up the rpms, you lose torque.
[08:59:38] <A-L-P-H-A> FAST.
[08:59:51] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.venom-racing.com/product/motors/index.htm is something I'm interseted in...
[09:00:58] <Phydbleep> fenn: Mine is 1/4" collet and I have a 1.5hp pmdc 6000rpm motor with a 5:1 gearup to get 30k @ ~.25hp
[09:01:14] <fenn> are these DC router motors really anywhere near their power rating? cause I'd rather be running a nice quiet induction motor with a pulley than a screeching DC router motor
[09:01:42] <fenn> damn 30k is a lot
[09:01:59] <Phydbleep> fenn: My motor is from a fat-farm treadmill. :)
[09:02:20] <fenn> I bet it is about twice as big as that router you're looking at
[09:02:40] <Phydbleep> 22oz beer can size.
[09:02:54] <fenn> um.. metric dimensions please?
[09:03:37] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep? what RPM speed was it motor rated for?
[09:03:50] <fenn> 22oz = about 1.5 liter?
[09:03:51] <Phydbleep> PMDC.. Permanent Magnet.. 100mm dia X 175mm length Roughly
[09:04:22] <Phydbleep> .7 litre
[09:05:42] <Phydbleep> Actually, That's the wrong motor.. The one I listed is what I got for a spindle motor for the lathe..
[09:06:18] <fenn> I saw a six stage planetary cone and ball transmission from an article in the thirties.. something like 100:1 gear up ratio and perfectly balanced since they're all simple cones
[09:06:21] <Phydbleep> The one I'm going to use for the high-speed sppindle is ~75mm dia X 120mm
[09:06:42] <Phydbleep> 6k rpm.
[09:08:03] <Phydbleep> "Blame Canada".. Er.. "Made in Canada"... Yeah, That's it. :)
[09:09:01] <fenn> what voltage do those treadmill motors run on?
[09:09:31] <Phydbleep> These are 100V.
[09:10:16] <fenn> if i used a starter motor could i run it on 12V with comparable efficiency?
[09:11:27] <Phydbleep> Nope.. It would eat the bearings and melt the windings.. The windings in those hobby motors will fry after ~ 30 min of continuios operation as well.
[09:12:26] <Phydbleep> Starter motor is 2% duty cycle.. The hobby motors are ~50%
[09:13:08] <fenn> i figured on replacing the bearings. thought if I ran less power through the starter somehow it would survive. planning out my dream house - it will run on 12V DC power
[09:13:48] <fenn> guess using a starter motor is a dumb idea, but they're abundant
[09:14:12] <Phydbleep> fenn: Gawd no.. Use 100V + busses anywhere you can.. 270V battery bank if you can afford it.
[09:14:27] <fenn> why?
[09:15:08] <Phydbleep> Cabling losses at 12V.. Batteries are cheaper than 0000-copper.
[09:16:29] <fenn> high power items would be air motors anyway, electrical stuff is mostly LED's and computers
[09:16:49] <Phydbleep> 30A @ 110V will be safe and cool on #10 wire.. I'd want #4 for the same circuit @ 12V.
[09:17:52] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is paranoid about electrical feeds and fires..
[09:18:17] <fenn> heh my house will be aluminum tubing and teflon bubbles filled with CO2
[09:18:39] <fenn> well polyethylene bubbles realistically
[09:18:46] <Phydbleep> If you don't have a big enough power feed it'll never spontaneously combust....
[09:19:06] <Phydbleep> Hehehe. :)
[09:20:25] <Phydbleep> fenn: Anymore computers want 36V-48V across the regulators in the power supply.. DC-DC switching from 12V up, just wastes watts.
[09:20:56] <fenn> hmmmm
[09:21:11] <fenn> computer only uses like 2-300 watts
[09:21:19] <fenn> max
[09:21:26] <Phydbleep> I'd at least run a 100V DC bus for regular 120V bulbs.
[09:22:39] <Phydbleep> The new 120V LED bulbs should run on it as well.
[09:22:58] <fenn> yeah you're right.. it's easier to step down than step up
[09:23:24] <Phydbleep> Especially in the winter when you want the waste heat. :)
[09:23:51] <fenn> well, we'll see how much solar gain we get, won't we?
[09:24:07] <fenn> * fenn rubs his hands together with an evil grin on his face.
[09:24:22] <Phydbleep> Current limiting resistors are nice and toasty @ 100% load. :)
[09:24:42] <fenn> "current limiting resistors" aka incandescent light bulbs
[09:25:19] <fenn> i dont know why people spend money on electric heaters, they should just grow plants
[09:25:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep gets the ceramic hot-dog roasters.
[09:26:01] <Phydbleep> Hey.. Every one of MY heaters has at least a 300MHz CPU. :)
[09:26:21] <Phydbleep> Or a 19" CRT. :)
[09:26:46] <fenn> or a 2 HP motor controller
[09:27:16] <Phydbleep> No, I'm talking about living room heaters..
[09:27:32] <fenn> but the shop gets cold too!
[09:28:03] <Phydbleep> The shop heater is a pair of P-II 400's and a 1.5hp motor controller. :)
[09:28:47] <Phydbleep> Soon to be 3 motor controllers.
[09:29:16] <fenn> what brand/model motor controllers do you use?
[09:29:32] <Phydbleep> "Junque"
[09:29:42] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... :)
[09:29:55] <fenn> you scrap them out of treadmills?
[09:30:11] <Phydbleep> Whatever I can get for cheap/free. Some are treadmill retreads.
[09:30:58] <fenn> i read somewhere that the motor controller is integrated into the rest of the treadmill electronics, so you have to pick "calorie workout" to get your lathe to start
[09:31:34] <fenn> maybe that was b/s but i can see how it could be a problem
[09:31:36] <Phydbleep> Most of the pmdc treadmills are pwm and you can scrap the main head and feed it your own pwm signal.
[09:32:08] <fenn> that's why you need those hexfet IC's then, right?
[09:32:34] <Phydbleep> I'm probably going to scrap all the electronics and build my own.. Yeah HEXFET's. :)
[09:33:08] <fenn> i've never taken a treadmill apart.. is the motor electronics separate from the computer?
[09:33:46] <Phydbleep> WooHoo.. I need to run to Kinkos tomorrow.. It looks like they will print me a 8.5x11 on acetate @ 2450 DPI for <$5
[09:34:19] <A-L-P-H-A> you ba$tard$. you got me hunting for a treadmill motor.
[09:34:24] <Phydbleep> These are.. you get a main head with the display and buttons, A power supply and a pwm unit.
[09:34:38] <fenn> cool.
[09:35:06] <fenn> 2450 DPI is kickin'
[09:35:12] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Exercise equipment stores.. Offer to remove any dead ones out back.. Usually it's shabby working trade-ins. :)
[09:36:16] <Phydbleep> I've gotten 4 so far and gave on eto a friend as a working unit.. The others had belt damage, dead EKG sensor, Broken plastic, etc.
[09:36:37] <fenn> who cares about the ekg sensor???
[09:37:03] <Phydbleep> Took about 5 minutes to swap plastic between 2 to give her a complete working unit.
[09:37:47] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep. hey! that's an awesome idea.
[09:38:07] <Phydbleep> Make that 5 so far.. Forgot 1.. Plus the El-Cheapo with a 1725 rpm AC motor and the variable pulley..
[09:38:17] <A-L-P-H-A> he means a heart monitor.
[09:39:10] <Phydbleep> ASk if the have any scraps of floor mat while you're at it.. 12mm rubber matting for concrete floors. :)
[09:39:14] <fenn> A-L-P-H-A, i can't imagine someone saying "hey, i can't feel my heart beating" and getting rid of their treadmill
[09:39:43] <Phydbleep> fenn: It scews with the math in some of them and they go nutz..
[09:39:53] <A-L-P-H-A> hey Jymmm.
[09:40:05] <Jymmm> hola
[09:40:14] <Phydbleep> "ERROR! USER DROPPED DEAD... STOP MOTOR..." :)
[09:40:31] <Jymmm> Dead Man Switch?
[09:40:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, like what kind of stores? I gotta check for USED places.
[09:40:44] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe even the thrift store.
[09:40:59] <Phydbleep> There's usually a clip-on dead-man/yank-tab as well.
[09:41:51] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: I went to the places here in town that sell new ones.. They had 4 out back to do to the dump.. I got those 4 and 1 a week later..
[09:42:20] <Jymmm> got what?
[09:42:37] <Phydbleep> Take the guys in the service dept a 1/2 case of decent beer and you'll have all you want probably. :)
[09:42:55] <Phydbleep> Tradmills for motors/parts.
[09:43:00] <Phydbleep> treadmills
[09:43:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, sounds like an excellent plan.
[09:44:22] <Phydbleep> My spindle motor for my lathe is a "Pacific Scientific" 1.5hp 3000 rpm 100V PMDC motor from a Precor-905e treadmill.
[09:46:01] <Phydbleep> Power, PWM and the headend are all seperate boards.. Just make sure to keep the big choke inline with the motor and pwm boards if you strip it down..
[09:46:23] <Phydbleep> Otherwise you'll pop the PWM unit.
[09:46:48] <A-L-P-H-A> now that's interesting to me.
[09:46:53] <A-L-P-H-A> cause that's is speed controlled too.
[09:47:16] <A-L-P-H-A> that is actually an excellent idea to grab that stuff.
[09:47:37] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... I'm hyped now... and it's 5:45am.
[09:47:43] <A-L-P-H-A> how the hell am I gonna go to sleep?
[09:48:01] <Phydbleep> Yeah.. There is a 'zero-cross" output and a 'pwm signal in' on the driver board.
[09:48:24] <Phydbleep> Dreaming and Scheming?
[09:48:29] <Phydbleep> Hehehe..:)
[09:48:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I love that idea actually.
[09:48:57] <A-L-P-H-A> if the driver board is still intact, that'd be awesome to just play with.
[09:49:15] <A-L-P-H-A> just need to map the PWM to the actual spindle RPM.
[09:49:15] <A-L-P-H-A> and set.
[09:49:23] <Phydbleep> WTF do you think I'm doing.. It's 03:50 here..I have to wait 2 hours longer than you for things to open. :)
[09:50:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm off. chat with you guys later... Phydbleep thanks for the idea of the threadmill motor + electronics.
[09:51:01] <Phydbleep> De Nada. :)
[09:51:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is glad to send someone else dumpster diving. :)
[09:51:37] <Phydbleep> G'night A-L-P-H-A :)
[09:53:37] <fenn> g'night
[09:53:42] <Phydbleep> Actually dont want to map pwm2rpm.. Want a real tach on the spindle..
[09:57:16] <fenn> jeez konversation crashes immediately on my system after taking an hour to download
[09:57:49] <fenn> at least i dont think it's supposed to close as soon as you click on anything
[09:57:58] <Phydbleep> Woohoo! 20 2" encoders per page (On heavy acetate @ 2450 DPI) for <$5 = <$0.25 each. :)
[09:58:29] <fenn> you gonna sell them? or keeping them all for your greedy self?
[09:58:42] <fenn> * fenn cackles
[09:59:08] <Phydbleep> Mine! Mine! MINE!.. You can have a copy of the .ps and print your own thoough. :)
[10:00:09] <Phydbleep> This sheet is 5 each of 4 different tachometer rings on a PWM/Sync wheel.
[10:00:30] <fenn> keep in mind that although its 2450 dpi it's not necessarily geometrically accurate to 1/2450 inch along the length of the sheet
[10:00:41] <Phydbleep> I'm commenting the .ps where it's east to make your own if you need custom stuff.
[10:01:09] <fenn> cool i'll put it up on my wiki if you don't mind
[10:02:11] <Phydbleep> Go for it.. I got the idea from a steering position encoder for a car. :)
[10:03:46] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. uses a 128 pixel photodiode strip and a PIC 16F819 to read an abosolute position from the encoded pwm ring..
[10:06:07] <Phydbleep> I added 3 sync rings (45, 90 and 180 degree) and a ring for a tach pickup.. The sheet has 720/360/180/and 90 division tach rings.
[10:06:20] <Phydbleep> 5 of each.
[10:08:08] <fenn> gimme!
[10:08:23] <Jymmm> when you order hex bar, is the measurement the width of the flats, or from the furthest points?
[10:09:38] <Phydbleep> fenn: http://www.nccabq.com/Network%20Trash%20Folder/2inch-45degree.ps
[10:09:40] <fenn> i would assume across flats like with square bar
[10:10:03] <Phydbleep> Look at a size chart for hex stock?
[10:10:10] <Jymmm> ah, found it (thanks fenn) http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?id=745&step=2
[10:10:55] <Phydbleep> fenn: Get it?
[10:11:20] <fenn> Phydbleep, yeah
[10:11:33] <Phydbleep> Scarey huh?
[10:11:55] <fenn> posted to http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/pages/136.html but the attach function is currently broken so it's on my server
[10:12:53] <fenn> you can GPL an encoder ring?
[10:13:49] <Phydbleep> fenn: The <$5 was a phone quote for the print on acetate.. I have no idea what they're going to try and stick me for to get it off the disk..
[10:14:03] <fenn> keep me posted then
[10:14:04] <Phydbleep> s/disk/floppy
[10:14:23] <Phydbleep> GPL the code to generate it. :)
[10:14:29] <fenn> not like $15 for all the encoder rings you can handle is a bad deal
[10:15:00] <Phydbleep> Yeah, But I'm prototyping so i may have to do this 3-4 times to get it right,
[10:16:33] <Phydbleep> You'll want to add a note that people should open the .ps with a text editor if they need a different tach/sync pattern..
[10:18:32] <Phydbleep> That's 4096ppr.. I'll have a 2.5" 8192 ppr and a new better commented copy of the 2" in a day or so.
[10:18:37] <fenn> how do you read the sync rings? IR LEDs?
[10:19:30] <Phydbleep> Tach, Sync read @ 12 & 6 o-clock.. PWM pickup @ 3 or 9.
[10:19:49] <fenn> what's doing the sensing?
[10:20:50] <Phydbleep> Number the rings counting in.. 1 = PWM, 2= Tach, 3/4/5 are sync.. Read 1 @ 3 o-clock, Read 2 & 4 @ 12, Read 3 & 5 @ 6. :)
[10:21:07] <Phydbleep> LED/Photodiode pair.
[10:21:32] <fenn> so you have 3 photodiode chips, right?
[10:22:52] <Phydbleep> The sensor seperation prevents falsing in the pwm and tach rings.. 5 leds 132 photodiodes.. 128 diode strip array + 4 dsicretes for rings 2-5
[10:23:33] <fenn> okay that makes sense now
[10:24:50] <Phydbleep> The 128 pixel strip is actually reading the pwm code from the outer ring..
[10:25:24] <Phydbleep> You can read the shaft position from a cold powerup without jogging the shaft this way. :)
[10:26:34] <Phydbleep> bbiaf..
[10:26:37] <fenn> why is this better than just using a 12-bit absolute position encoder and 12 photodiode pairs?
[10:27:04] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wants to take advantage of a lack of traffic in the bathroom to shower.
[10:28:01] <fenn> hmm nevermind that last question
[10:29:00] <Phydbleep> I'm encoding the position right there and shooting it to the data aggregator @ 3Mbit/sec.. The encoder/aggregator will have .5 farad caps for the brown-out portection..
[10:29:57] <Phydbleep> If the power dies, The machine will coast to a stop and the encoders/aggregator will have enough time to store current position/angle.
[10:30:23] <Phydbleep> Allright for real this time. .. bbiaf..
[10:48:20] <asdfqwega> logger_aj, bookmark
[10:48:21] <asdfqwega> See
[10:49:35] <fenn> wow cool logging system
[10:52:19] <Phydbleep> OK.. I'm back.. Much better..
[10:52:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep feels much less human now..
[10:55:38] <Jymmm> Our Flash Butt Welder secondary transformer is 140,000Amps at 4 volts or 560KVA. In the weldering process this transformer is placed in a dead short across the work piece (hence the term flash). The incoming service is 480VAC /3P @ 800 Amps. This transformer is controlled and switched by by 12 Water Cooled SCR's and is connected to a 30 Ton Water Chiller to prevent a meltdown..
[10:55:38] <Jymmm> Two other Heat Treating machines have 1300 KVA Transformer Tanks and 100 Ton Water Chillers. MORE POWER!!! UG! UG! UG!
[10:56:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does not want his butt welded at all..
[10:56:46] <Phydbleep> In a flash or not. :)
[10:57:12] <fenn> i bet you get some funny eddy currents at 140000 amps
[10:59:05] <Phydbleep> I bet there's ferrous objects jumping when they fire it.
[11:00:05] <Phydbleep> "Here Boss we got you a new steel hard hat.. Sorry about the pickaxe through your old one.."
[11:01:15] <Jymmm> forget the power a moment.... 100 TON water chiller
[11:01:48] <Phydbleep> 3,000,000 gallon daquiri?
[11:02:00] <fenn> 25000 gallons actually
[11:02:23] <Jymmm> these 12 SCR's have got to be what 4 to 6 ft tall each ?
[11:02:49] <Phydbleep> 30,000 gallon daquiri? Got to leave room for the booze. :)
[11:03:10] <Jymmm> Phydbleep The boose is for when the chiller fails at the wrong time
[11:03:48] <fenn> reminds me of the particle accelerator my brother works at
[11:03:54] <Phydbleep> No, No.. The ethanol lowers the freezing point of the water.. At least that's what you tell the beancounters. :)
[11:04:01] <Jymmm> we got one a few miles away
[11:04:31] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Accelerator or bean counter?
[11:04:34] <Jymmm> Phydbleep enthanol, glycol, it's all the same
[11:04:44] <Jymmm> Phydbleep LL labs
[11:05:16] <fenn> they have permanent magnets that are 3 stories tall and a row of klystrons about a mile long
[11:05:32] <Phydbleep> Well.. That's safer to get close to than the beancounter.. :)
[11:05:58] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Sandia Labs ~ 3 miles away here.
[11:08:06] <Phydbleep> I had to wonder about the wafer fab gear that came out as surplus a couple of years ago, It was high end stuff and marked with bio-hazard/contamination tags.
[11:08:57] <fenn> when they make genome expression arrays they use chip fab techinques - could have been used for a viral genome or some such
[11:09:16] <fenn> pretty stupid to put bio hazard on it, but that's what the bean counters say you have to do
[11:09:24] <Phydbleep> that would explain all hte lab cages htat came out about the same time.
[11:09:40] <fenn> mice cages?
[11:09:59] <Phydbleep> Nope.. Bigger.. Lot bigger.. Rhesus size.
[11:10:01] <Jymmm> http://images.google.com/images?q=Stanford+Linear+Accelerator&svnum=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&imgsz=
[11:10:11] <fenn> that's too bad. wonder what happened to the monkeys
[11:10:31] <fenn> yeah slac is where my brother works
[11:10:38] <fenn> i got a first-class tour :P
[11:10:47] <Phydbleep> What a SLAC'r. :)
[11:11:03] <Jymmm> http://www.crystal-reflections.com/bb_database/SITE_03.jpg
[11:11:10] <Jymmm> Phydbleep that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[11:11:33] <Jymmm> Phydbleep that long thing at 12 oclock
[11:12:03] <fenn> you get dizzy looking down it
[11:12:08] <Jymmm> SLAC == Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
[11:12:41] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: The "Mine's longer than yours" thing?
[11:12:57] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[11:13:19] <Jymmm> Phydbleep you see the vertical line ?
[11:13:37] <Jymmm> you see the "break" in to part way down?
[11:13:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep cannot help but laugh at all the bragging that goes on about which lab has the biggest whatzit..
[11:13:44] <Jymmm> you see the "break" in it part way down?
[11:14:09] <Phydbleep> You mean the freeway overpass?
[11:14:24] <Jymmm> Phydbleep Yeah, the 10 lane overpass
[11:15:56] <Phydbleep> Is that the one they built in '88?'89?
[11:16:03] <fenn> the little yellow building in the center is the water cooling tower, it's about 4 stories tall
[11:16:20] <Jymmm> Ah, here we go.... real photos of it http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/accelerators/gallery/gallery.html
[11:17:52] <Phydbleep> I think I was through there just before the quake.. I got the hell out of CA as soon as I could after that.
[11:18:38] <fenn> geez they dont have many pictures of it huh
[11:20:02] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was on the stacked/elevated 2 hours before it pancaked.
[11:21:25] <Phydbleep> I had just gotten back to Sacremento after saying "F a formal business lunch.. I want a Murder Burger!"..
[11:22:25] <Phydbleep> When the 18 wheeler on the freeway next to me looked 'odd'.. The cab and trailer were OK, but the pavement was whipping up and down about 2 feet.
[11:22:51] <fenn> you couldn't feel anything in the car?
[11:23:24] <Phydbleep> You know how a suspension will float on bumps.. I had it couple into the wheelbase on the pickup I was driving a second later..
[11:24:13] <Phydbleep> Found out about 10 minutes alter that if I'd stayed for lunch I would have been in th sandwich. :\
[11:26:34] <Phydbleep> Moved here because it's flat, 99% of the buildings are < 4 story and in '89 it was listed as the most stable geologic region in the country..
[11:27:14] <Phydbleep> Then in '94 the USGS decided "Oh! You're overdue for an 8.0"..
[11:27:30] <fenn> i dont think there's been any earthquakes in indiana for the last couple thousand years at least
[11:29:18] <Phydbleep> Oh well, At least I won't be crushed by a fat guy falling from a 10'th story balcony in a quake.. :)
[11:37:21] <Phydbleep> fenn: BTW, There's people doing GPL hardware all over the place. :)
[11:37:58] <fenn> i'm really interested in that idea but i don't understand the legalities involved
[11:38:40] <fenn> why is there such a thing as creative commons license if GPL will work?
[11:39:47] <Phydbleep> You design it, you publish the plans, You disavow any responsibility if it curls their hair, floats their boat or sets fire to the cat. :)
[11:41:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has seen things online that can do all 3 at the same time.
[11:41:31] <fenn> heh antigravity devices?
[11:42:21] <Phydbleep> Weellllll.. She looked like she was orbital....
[11:43:04] <Phydbleep> The device used a "Scotch-Yoke" to drive the "appuratus"..
[11:43:26] <fenn> hmmm
[11:43:32] <Phydbleep> You'll just have to dig for the site if you want to know more..
[11:43:37] <fenn> the gyroscope thing?
[11:44:28] <Phydbleep> fenn: Not a gyro and not a family oriented site, :)
[11:44:44] <fenn> * fenn snickers
[11:47:20] <Phydbleep> And 'Thin Metal Parts' in Colorado Springs is going to lose out if I don't get an email back about mylar encoder wheels.
[11:48:28] <Phydbleep> Although if the kinkos deal works.. F em. :)
[12:01:41] <Phydbleep> Hmm ..... 6AM.. Time to cuss at the birds for chirping so loud while i'm trying to sleep. :)
[12:01:53] <Phydbleep> G'nite all. :)
[12:02:08] <Jymmm> G'Night Phydbleep
[12:03:13] <fenn> nite
[12:54:18] <rayh> rayh is now known as rayh_fest
[13:11:15] <Imperator_> Morning
[13:11:38] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/ (11 files in 3 dirs): moved configure script and top level makefile from top level directory to src directory, preparing for port to kernel 2.6
[13:11:51] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[13:11:54] <alex_joni> I just got back
[13:11:59] <alex_joni> seems you started coding ;)
[13:13:43] <rayh_fest> Hi Alex
[13:13:51] <alex_joni> hey ray
[13:14:18] <rayh_fest> Looks like we have a plan in place to pull the code together.
[13:14:50] <alex_joni> nice
[13:16:24] <alex_joni> is there an outline somewhere?
[13:17:23] <rayh_fest> There is the start of a wiki page on redpoint.
[13:17:40] <rayh_fest> It looks like there are two wiki's running as of last night.
[13:17:54] <alex_joni> two wikis?
[13:17:56] <alex_joni> how so?
[13:19:06] <rayh_fest> Okay This am I see that redpoint is archival and wiki.linuxcnc.org is the official
[13:19:25] <rayh_fest> I'll move the page there in a few minutes.
[13:20:18] <alex_joni> hmmm... this sounds interesting:
[13:20:19] <alex_joni> HAL module configuration will be modified to be able to use EMC1 style .ini file parameters (e.g. for PID and input/output scales)
[13:23:06] <rayh_fest> Right. JohnK coded most of that last evening.
[13:23:18] <alex_joni> can't wait to see that
[13:23:46] <rayh_fest> Our first priority for today is to get HAL to compile under 2.6
[13:24:02] <alex_joni> right
[13:24:12] <alex_joni> sounds good enough for me
[13:24:25] <rayh_fest> Then we will be able to work both BDI-4.xx and HAL/EMC2
[13:24:31] <rayh_fest> on the same platform.
[13:25:32] <alex_joni> can't tell you how much I wish I could have maded it myself ;)
[13:25:45] <rayh_fest> I wish that also.
[13:25:48] <alex_joni> to the Fest that is
[13:25:52] <rayh_fest> We are having a great time.
[13:25:58] <alex_joni> I imagine ;)
[13:25:59] <rayh_fest> Next year?
[13:26:04] <alex_joni> definately
[13:26:05] <alex_joni> ;)
[13:26:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is having a boring time
[13:26:17] <alex_joni> I'm taking a course for IWE
[13:26:27] <alex_joni> having 8h lectures / day
[13:26:58] <rayh_fest> I'm much to old for that sort of thing.
[13:27:07] <alex_joni> heh.. yeah
[13:27:18] <alex_joni> but .. I'm learning a lot about materials & such
[13:27:26] <alex_joni> which I didn't know about.. so I don't mind
[13:27:49] <rayh_fest> Good.
[13:28:55] <alex_joni> right now I'm learning about steels
[13:33:43] <alex_joni> yo paul_c
[13:35:53] <Imperator_> morning Paul
[13:37:59] <alex_joni> did you guys make any pictures?
[13:41:19] <Imperator_> would like to send you some, if somebody can read my CF-Card
[13:41:39] <alex_joni> hmm.. CF should be pretty widespread
[13:41:50] <alex_joni> uses FAT AFAIK
[13:41:57] <alex_joni> so that shouldn't be a problem to mount
[13:42:23] <Imperator_> have no adapter card :-)
[13:43:42] <paul_c> Oh yes you do....
[13:44:16] <les> how's it going up there paul?
[13:46:18] <paul_c> not so bad....
[13:46:28] <paul_c> No blood on the walls yet.
[13:46:34] <les> heh
[13:48:12] <alex_joni> heh
[13:49:16] <les> just wondering what kind of priority TP stuff is being given
[13:49:31] <alex_joni> les: got my link yesterday?
[13:49:41] <les> ?
[13:49:43] <les> email?
[13:50:10] <alex_joni> http://batman.mech.ubc.ca/~ial/publication/theses/sonja.pdf
[13:50:19] <alex_joni> nah.. in here, but I think you left
[13:50:24] <alex_joni> or your connection broke
[13:50:44] <les> yeah
[13:50:57] <les> that thesis is pretty good
[13:51:15] <alex_joni> yeah.. but you gotta take some time to read it through ;)
[13:51:19] <les> I think I even made a bound hard copy of it a while back
[13:51:28] <alex_joni> you did?
[13:51:33] <les> yeah
[13:51:43] <les> a year ago or so
[14:05:23] <Imperator_> here again
[14:05:35] <Imperator_> alex_joni: url ??
[14:05:52] <alex_joni> http://batman.mech.ubc.ca/~ial/publication/theses/sonja.pdf
[14:06:31] <Imperator_> no, where i can you send a picture
[14:06:38] <alex_joni> ehh..
[14:06:43] <alex_joni> is ftp ok?
[14:08:15] <Imperator_> maybe
[14:08:58] <alex_joni> if not.. mail them
[14:09:03] <alex_joni> to my address
[14:15:27] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (10 files in 9 dirs): removed a layer of '../' from relative paths so that lower level makefiles can find the top level stuff
[14:15:32] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (9 files in 8 dirs): removed a layer of '../' from relative paths so that lower level makefiles can find the top level stuff
[14:15:53] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/ (7 files in 7 dirs): removed a layer of '../' from relative paths so that lower level makefiles can find the top level stuff
[14:23:30] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/configure: more tweaks resulting from the config/makefile move
[14:37:10] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/rtapi/examples/ (5 files in 5 dirs): removed a layer of '../' from a few more lower level makefiles
[14:41:50] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/src/emc/ini/Makefile: removed a layer of '../' from one last (I hope) lower level makefile
[14:42:26] <jmkasunich> hi fred
[14:42:31] <proctor> Hi John
[14:42:33] <alex_joni> hey John
[14:42:42] <alex_joni> hello fred
[14:43:45] <alex_joni> hey Stephen
[14:43:51] <SWPadnos> hiya Alex
[14:44:10] <alex_joni> seems you guys are really busy ;)
[14:44:27] <SWPadnos> uh - yeah, that's it :)
[14:45:57] <narnia> proctor, would you have time for a scl question?
[14:57:41] <les> hi fred how's it going
[14:57:52] <proctor> hi narnia, i'll try to give you answer
[14:57:54] <proctor> and hi les
[15:00:11] <rayh_fest> Hi Fred. Welcome to IRC.
[15:00:27] <proctor> hello ray. nice to see you across the room.
[15:00:51] <alex_joni> * alex_joni has to leave unfortunately
[15:00:56] <alex_joni> catch you later guys
[15:01:04] <alex_joni> keep up the coding ;)
[15:01:06] <rayh_fest> Catch you later alex.
[15:09:37] <narnia> proctor, how important is maintaining backward compatibility of scl? to fix several problems will break backward compatibility.
[15:12:21] <narnia> proctor, there is also the issue of the name; it has been known for many years as "the nist step class library". what are the legal issues of keeping the same name even though it is no longer associated with or maintained by nist?
[15:14:17] <proctor> i'm not the STEP class library expert. I think you've talked with others here at NIST about this, like Peter Denno maybe.
[15:14:49] <proctor> If fixing bugs breaks backward compatibility, then I think it's OK to break it. I don't know the user base so maybe no one would even notice.
[15:15:35] <proctor> Regarding the legal issues, it's public domain so you can do with it what you wish. You can claim you wrote it and sue anyone else who uses it. You would lose but there's nothing to prevent you from doing it.
[15:15:52] <proctor> To be nice, you should mention NIST.
[15:18:18] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/canon.hh: Added USER_DEFINED_FUNCTION declarations
[15:19:41] <narnia> proctor, i will e-mail peter denno. fred, thank you.
[15:20:33] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/canon.hh: Added the dollar-log-dollar entry in the Modification history at the end.
[15:42:23] <rayh_fest> As you get time, look over http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ProgrammerDecisions_Fest_2005
[15:44:22] <narnia> has there been any discussion at all concerning the brl-cad <=> emc interface?
[15:52:49] <proctor> Nope. Isn't this interface simply NC code files? I haven't used BRL-CAD. Does it have an NC postprocessor?
[15:57:46] <rayh_fest> lunch brb
[16:08:50] <narnia> proctor, not yet. i am working on that. working on plugins for brl-cad which implement tool paths and tool descriptions.
[16:34:57] <asdfqwega> Ugh...EMC-Fest, thus 'festering'...who thought that stinker up?
[16:35:04] <asdfqwega> Tell them I liked it :P
[16:46:24] <dave-e> hi fred, ray
[16:47:18] <dave-e> hmmmm.....must be OTL
[16:56:14] <rayh_fest> Hi guys. We're back.
[16:56:28] <dave-e> so how is life in the fast lane?
[16:57:16] <dave-e> ray...you awake?
[16:59:13] <rayh_fest> k-pa-sa
[17:00:15] <dave-e> got an interesting quote from Renco on a modular encoder...1 @ 250, 2-9@125, 10and up @ 60
[17:00:31] <dave-e> 4-6 weeks ARO
[17:00:46] <rayh_fest> modular?
[17:01:01] <rayh_fest> no shaft?
[17:01:24] <dave-e> yep...basically the same as I did for the Z axis on the Mazak....on the end of the servo motor shaft
[17:02:33] <dave-e> how is the classicladder/emc stuff going?
[17:13:39] <robin_sz> meep?
[17:14:02] <dave-e> hi robin
[17:14:09] <robin_sz> hi
[17:14:22] <robin_sz> hmm ... those encoder prices ...
[17:14:32] <robin_sz> did you consider them cheap?
[17:14:44] <dave-e> well it depends...
[17:15:23] <dave-e> I get koyo's for about 80....but they don't mount just anyplace
[17:15:29] <robin_sz> right
[17:15:35] <robin_sz> seen the USDigital stuff?
[17:15:41] <dave-e> yes
[17:15:55] <dave-e> not impessed with mylar
[17:16:05] <robin_sz> I like their glue-on soloution
[17:16:20] <dave-e> however the metal code wheels are OK. I've used them
[17:16:28] <robin_sz> looks like it will mount directly on the back of a stepper
[17:16:45] <robin_sz> and at ~20 dolllars for an encoder, I'll try it
[17:16:54] <dave-e> but sometimes I need more resolution....2500 lpr would be nice
[17:16:56] <robin_sz> they drop to $11 in quantity
[17:17:18] <robin_sz> yeah, the cheap one is low resolution
[17:17:40] <dave-e> if you have lots of gearing that is ok
[17:18:05] <robin_sz> I have steppers, so im geared about 20mm/rev
[17:18:13] <robin_sz> which is fine on plasma
[17:18:30] <dave-e> my ball screws are 10mm
[17:18:36] <robin_sz> an inherently low resolution process anyway, especially on stretchy belt drives
[17:19:12] <dave-e> plasma or flame is a little different than a mill
[17:19:15] <robin_sz> yeah
[17:19:30] <robin_sz> we get away with steppers and springy belts
[17:20:18] <dave-e> on my x and y the encoder is on the ball screw (end...direct drive)
[17:20:43] <robin_sz> right
[17:22:39] <robin_sz> I was playing with a Hass mini-mill the other day
[17:22:41] <robin_sz> that was nice
[17:23:07] <robin_sz> but had some very basic 3d visulaization stuff
[17:23:20] <dave-e> my impession is that the mini is not real stiff .... but certainly does some stuff nicely
[17:23:28] <robin_sz> yeah
[17:23:32] <robin_sz> OK on ally
[17:23:39] <dave-e> exactly
[17:23:52] <robin_sz> my friend bought it .
[17:24:06] <robin_sz> the days training seem to have been on how to type gcode by hand
[17:24:13] <dave-e> however is one uses small tooling and keeps the spindle speed up it should do a nice job on steel
[17:24:28] <robin_sz> this one is 6k rpm
[17:24:34] <robin_sz> I tink they do other variants
[17:24:44] <dave-e> 10K would be nicer
[17:24:52] <robin_sz> more $$$ though
[17:24:58] <dave-e> always
[17:25:10] <rayh_fest> Oh you want motors with that?
[17:25:28] <dave-e> <laugh>
[17:26:13] <dave-e> and a A axis
[17:26:49] <dave-e> I think NIST fell off the end of the earth.
[17:27:00] <dave-e> brb..coffee
[17:27:51] <robin_sz> I was suprised that for the money you didnt get some sort of offline CAM
[17:28:07] <dave-e> with the exchange rate the way it is....the mini may look cheap
[17:28:15] <robin_sz> not that cheap
[17:28:34] <dave-e> guess CAM is supposed to come with the CAD package
[17:28:50] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/rtapi/Makefile: Changed EMC2_HOME to SRC_DIR as head of Makefile.inc, for rtapi.conf rule
[17:28:51] <robin_sz> I would have expected some sort of basic CAM still, who the hell programs gcode by hand these days?
[17:29:20] <dave-e> last time I checked they started at 25K ... here
[17:29:40] <robin_sz> plus collets
[17:29:43] <robin_sz> plus vices
[17:29:46] <robin_sz> plus tooling
[17:29:49] <robin_sz> plus deliver
[17:29:53] <robin_sz> etc
[17:30:04] <dave-e> it counts up fast
[17:30:09] <robin_sz> yep
[17:31:00] <dave-e> my machine may have been cheap..used...but getting it here was more than I paid for the machine
[17:31:10] <robin_sz> yeah
[17:31:28] <dave-e> don't think it will move for a few years tho
[17:31:32] <robin_sz> my laser cost 1K gbp just for craneage
[17:31:44] <dave-e> ouch!
[17:31:48] <robin_sz> I did the install myself,
[17:31:56] <robin_sz> that would have been 2K or more
[17:32:05] <dave-e> exactly
[17:32:35] <dave-e> I got by for about half of that for a 4500 Kg machine
[17:32:45] <les> hi dave and robin
[17:32:52] <dave-e> hello les
[17:34:07] <les> just setting up an online shopping cart system with credit card etc
[17:34:13] <les> never did this before
[17:34:36] <les> seems not too hard
[17:34:54] <dave-e> btw...robin ... I still code by hand...hoping to fix that after fest
[17:35:16] <dave-e> les...using mysql?
[17:35:19] <robin_sz> les: which system you using? OSCommerce?
[17:35:46] <les> for starters just paypal shopping cart
[17:35:49] <robin_sz> right
[17:35:51] <robin_sz> that works
[17:35:55] <les> I am not the web server here
[17:35:59] <robin_sz> right
[17:36:20] <robin_sz> well, when you are ready to move up ...
[17:37:02] <les> I am actually doing two of them...one for me and one for my uncle's art gallery
[17:37:16] <robin_sz> have a look at store.redpoint.org.uk
[17:37:17] <les> one concern I have with paypal....
[17:37:33] <robin_sz> its just an OS Commerce demo store.
[17:37:38] <robin_sz> free software
[17:37:48] <les> you have to cut and paste html for "purchase buttons etc
[17:37:54] <dave-e> gotta run..CU later
[17:37:59] <robin_sz> right
[17:38:06] <les> My uncle might have a problem with that
[17:38:09] <robin_sz> right
[17:38:21] <robin_sz> so .. hav a look at OS Commerce ...
[17:38:30] <les> can you suggest anything better?
[17:38:36] <robin_sz> store.redpoint.org.uk
[17:38:37] <les> oh ok
[17:38:44] <les> looking
[17:38:57] <robin_sz> the admin interface is on store.redpoint.org.uk/admin/
[17:39:23] <robin_sz> ah, thats and old version, I think I have a nice shiny new version somewhere
[17:39:57] <les> is it all drag and drop?
[17:40:07] <robin_sz> have a look at the admin interface
[17:40:08] <les> something my uncle could handle?
[17:40:15] <robin_sz> you create categories,
[17:40:21] <robin_sz> add new items to a category,
[17:40:25] <robin_sz> upload a picture etc
[17:40:35] <robin_sz> no html code at all
[17:40:42] <les> hmmm good
[17:40:46] <robin_sz> all click and drool
[17:41:03] <les> I have no problem with the html of course but my uncle would
[17:41:08] <robin_sz> yeah
[17:41:22] <robin_sz> this is a pretty common web-based store
[17:41:27] <les> course they offered to pay me to administer...but...
[17:41:44] <les> I should not be doing webmaster stuff really
[17:41:47] <robin_sz> once you see it, you'll notice plenty of sites you visit are using it (with some modifications to the style)
[17:42:15] <les> that looks promising...thanks. I will read up on it
[17:42:19] <robin_sz> 'k
[17:42:29] <les> well off to lunch
[17:42:34] <les> bbiaw
[17:42:37] <robin_sz> slacker :)
[17:42:41] <les> heh
[18:11:04] <alex_joni> greetings
[18:16:29] <rayh_fest> Hi alex.
[18:16:35] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[18:16:39] <alex_joni> how's the festering?
[18:16:40] <robin_sz> ooh look, they are still festering
[18:16:48] <alex_joni> meep?
[18:16:53] <robin_sz> meep indeed
[18:16:57] <alex_joni> heh ;)
[18:17:06] <alex_joni> seems festering has cought on people
[18:17:07] <alex_joni> :D
[18:17:12] <robin_sz> yep.
[18:17:32] <robin_sz> somehow, I am not certian that everyone is quite so happy about the term ;)
[18:17:53] <rayh_fest> Did you get a look at http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ProgrammerDecisions_Fest_2005
[18:17:59] <robin_sz> I put "this week we a re festering" on the wiki and it lasted abut 20 minutes ;)
[18:18:19] <alex_joni> heh
[18:18:26] <alex_joni> rayh: indeed I did
[18:18:30] <rayh_fest> Darn user edited stuff.
[18:19:54] <robin_sz> hmmm
[18:20:11] <robin_sz> hal-ified motion and mini-mill, bridgeport
[18:20:26] <robin_sz> interesting that motion is to be hal-ified
[18:20:47] <alex_joni> yeah.. you can connect motion-pins to mini-mill-pins
[18:20:54] <robin_sz> so .. the IO is to be halified
[18:21:03] <alex_joni> through bridgeport parameters
[18:21:03] <robin_sz> the motion to be hal-ified
[18:21:13] <robin_sz> what about trajectory planning?
[18:21:18] <robin_sz> is that part of motion?
[18:22:01] <alex_joni> which are expressed by ini-file emc1 style gui based trajectory planning parameters (of course these are sent through NML to a classicladder connected himself to th iocontroller)
[18:22:56] <alex_joni> robin: don't try to make any sense from that
[18:22:57] <alex_joni> ;)
[18:23:31] <robin_sz> im trying to figure out exactl what "motion" is to be hal-ified
[18:23:41] <robin_sz> just the pulse-gen?
[18:23:44] <alex_joni> the motion controller
[18:23:53] <robin_sz> the trajectory planner?
[18:24:12] <robin_sz> "motion controller" ... means different things to different people
[18:24:18] <robin_sz> the task planner?
[18:24:24] <alex_joni> hummm
[18:25:59] <robin_sz> sounds like we just need to add a "HAL-interp" and a "HAL-gui-connector" and we can cut the cruft free
[18:26:24] <alex_joni> don't say the magic words.. PLEASE
[18:28:59] <robin_sz> I wonder exactly what comes under "Architecture"
[18:29:58] <robin_sz> ah well, I have my solution now, so perhaps I have stopped caring.
[18:30:40] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone in here fimiliar with xmodmap?
[18:30:48] <robin_sz> vaguely
[18:30:53] <alex_joni> yeah .. me
[18:30:58] <alex_joni> what's that?
[18:31:01] <robin_sz> maps keys to actions in X right?
[18:31:32] <robin_sz> I vaguely remember using ot to map some ACPI keys I think
[18:32:17] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[18:32:23] <A-L-P-H-A> well, my mouse is acting up.
[18:32:32] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a wireless mouse, with a tilt wheel.
[18:32:42] <robin_sz> have you fed it?
[18:32:44] <A-L-P-H-A> so that's 7 events on the mouse... and I can't figure it out.
[18:33:05] <A-L-P-H-A> left/right buttons. left/right tilt, middle click, scroll up/down.
[18:33:21] <robin_sz> not done anyting mousey with it
[18:33:29] <cradek> xmodmap can only reassign mouse buttons.
[18:33:34] <cradek> reorder
[18:33:40] <A-L-P-H-A> The help file is really of no help to me...
[18:33:48] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, that's fine... as the current order is fucked up.
[18:34:11] <cradek> oh you just want to reorder them?
[18:34:18] <A-L-P-H-A> like moving the cursor is somewhere fine... but it sometimes clicks and activates stuff.
[18:34:28] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, I do, but I don't know what order to order them in.
[18:34:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I've right now got two mice on the system, so Ican actually use linux.
[18:34:52] <cradek> if it clicks on stuff when no buttons are pushed, it's not an xmodmap problem.
[18:35:26] <A-L-P-H-A> no, like if I click, it kinda does a three events... or seemingly so.
[18:35:35] <A-L-P-H-A> like it'd click down, click up, click down again... and stay down.
[18:35:41] <A-L-P-H-A> the events that is.
[18:35:51] <cradek> that's not something to be fixed with xmodmap.
[18:36:02] <A-L-P-H-A> then what is it?
[18:36:06] <robin_sz> sounds like a driver
[18:36:06] <cradek> make sure you're using the right protocol
[18:36:08] <A-L-P-H-A> the mouse works perfectly fine in winxp.
[18:36:09] <cradek> in XF86Config
[18:36:15] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the xorg?
[18:36:19] <A-L-P-H-A> or is that it?
[18:36:34] <cradek> whatever your X config file is called
[18:36:42] <cradek> it may be something like xorg.conf
[18:36:58] <cradek> (I don't have the xorg server)
[18:45:06] <A-L-P-H-A> no. useless.
[18:45:55] <cradek> ?
[18:46:16] <A-L-P-H-A> no, hang on... while I paste the xorg.conf file.
[18:46:45] <cradek> have you asked google if this funny mouse is supported in X?
[18:47:00] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pastebin.com/276797
[18:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I've been goggling first. before I tried asking
[18:47:34] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28273&highlight=microsoft+wireless+mouse I started this.
[18:48:01] <cradek> I guess you are using the ExplorerPS/2 protocol
[18:48:41] <cradek> if you have 7 buttons you surely don't want Emulate3Buttons
[18:49:12] <cradek> (that means buttons 1 & 3 together cause a button 2 event)
[18:49:42] <alex_joni> wasn't that 1 & 2 -> 3 ?
[18:49:48] <alex_joni> where 3 is the middle button
[18:49:52] <cradek> no, what I said
[18:50:03] <alex_joni> but you only have 2 buttons
[18:50:09] <cradek> yes, they're called 1 & 3
[18:50:16] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. k, changed.
[18:50:20] <alex_joni> ok.. suit yourself
[18:50:23] <alex_joni> ;)
[18:50:35] <cradek> don't blame me, I just report the news
[18:50:57] <alex_joni> I don't blame ...
[18:55:02] <A-L-P-H-A> k, brb.
[18:55:31] <cradek> I wonder why he doesn't run irc on the console
[18:56:36] <alex_joni> heh... too hard to switch from X to console
[18:56:45] <alex_joni> you gotta press 3 keys at a time
[18:56:57] <alex_joni> or even use xmodmap for that
[18:56:59] <alex_joni> lol
[18:57:23] <A-L-P-H-A> nope
[18:57:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I hate this.
[18:57:48] <cradek> so you found something that said ExplorerPS/2 is the right protocol?
[18:58:00] <cradek> is it a PS/2 mouse (round plug)?
[18:58:01] <A-L-P-H-A> auto didn't work either
[18:58:13] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a plugged into the USB port
[18:58:29] <cradek> then ExplorerPS/2 is probably wrong.
[19:02:21] <Jymmm> Cool, found a place that'll do custom extrusions fairly inexpensive
[19:04:10] <alex_joni> http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/xfree/mouse/index.html.no
[19:04:21] <alex_joni> cradek: looks like ExplorerPS/2 is to be used
[19:04:24] <alex_joni> even with USB
[19:06:32] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, restarting X... I'll let you know
[19:06:47] <alex_joni> ALPHA toggles again ;)
[19:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[19:07:29] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[19:09:28] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, no good.
[19:09:31] <A-L-P-H-A> ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[19:09:43] <alex_joni> what's wrong?
[19:09:58] <A-L-P-H-A> well, I know I have 7 buttons.
[19:10:03] <A-L-P-H-A> now the scroll doesn't even work.
[19:10:28] <alex_joni> did you put the ZAxisMapping "8 9" ?
[19:10:33] <alex_joni> and maxbuttons 9?
[19:10:35] <A-L-P-H-A> 7 buttons.
[19:10:41] <A-L-P-H-A> Buttons 7
[19:10:41] <alex_joni> 9
[19:10:45] <alex_joni> you have 9 buttons ;)
[19:10:51] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I have 9?
[19:10:53] <A-L-P-H-A> don't I have 7?
[19:10:54] <alex_joni> I know you have 7
[19:11:05] <alex_joni> but the scroll is seen as two buttons
[19:11:10] <alex_joni> one for up, one for down
[19:11:13] <rayh_fest> Our Arch discussion revolved around heirarchial v peer notions of interrelationship between running modules.
[19:11:16] <alex_joni> plus the 7
[19:11:18] <A-L-P-H-A> left, right, tilt left, tilt right, scroll up, scroll down, middle?
[19:11:39] <A-L-P-H-A> k, I'll add that now.
[19:11:41] <A-L-P-H-A> sec
[19:11:47] <alex_joni> http://linuxreviews.org/howtos/xfree/mouse/intellimouseexplorer.txt
[19:13:49] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[19:13:49] <A-L-P-H-A> See
[19:14:29] <alex_joni> rayh: thanks for pointing that out
[19:15:37] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, ALMOST there.
[19:15:41] <A-L-P-H-A> scroll is back.
[19:15:48] <A-L-P-H-A> but events are still messed up.
[19:15:50] <alex_joni> what's still missing?
[19:16:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni (x & Y)
[19:16:07] <robin_sz> Lassie!
[19:16:09] <A-L-P-H-A> like when I click, it's still doing that weird thing. where it's like sometimes registering a click, and sometimes not.
[19:16:23] <alex_joni> strange
[19:16:36] <A-L-P-H-A> damn, I feel as if I am from California... "like that's like cool man"
[19:16:42] <alex_joni> lol
[19:16:48] <robin_sz> sigh ...
[19:16:51] <alex_joni> like.. that's like you need a better mouse
[19:16:53] <alex_joni> not M$
[19:17:03] <alex_joni> like not M$
[19:17:04] <robin_sz> OK, speak to me about Windows and directories ...
[19:17:06] <alex_joni> lol
[19:17:13] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, it's a good mouse and KB...
[19:17:14] <robin_sz> as in directories of people and stuff
[19:17:23] <robin_sz> let me get this right,
[19:17:29] <alex_joni> robin: what are you talking about
[19:17:40] <robin_sz> Linux tends to use OpenLDAP right?
[19:17:55] <alex_joni> sometimes
[19:17:57] <Jymmm> or PAM
[19:18:13] <robin_sz> PAM is an authentication system no?
[19:18:26] <Jymmm> Yes, but can use LDAP
[19:18:52] <robin_sz> yes, but yo ucan t use PAM for holding email addresses, telephone nubers etc can you
[19:19:15] <robin_sz> so .. where was I
[19:19:19] <Jymmm> PAM can access LDAP, as an example
[19:19:58] <robin_sz> im talking about lists of contacts for use in email clients, wordprocessing packages etc
[19:20:13] <robin_sz> organisational directories
[19:20:25] <alex_joni> robin: you know exchange?
[19:20:26] <robin_sz> not access control
[19:20:28] <alex_joni> the M$ crap
[19:20:34] <robin_sz> alex_joni: thankfully no.
[19:20:35] <Jymmm> ok, yes that sounds like LDAP
[19:20:38] <alex_joni> there is an open-exchange
[19:20:43] <robin_sz> oh.
[19:20:45] <alex_joni> that runs on linux
[19:20:46] <robin_sz> thats interesting
[19:20:50] <alex_joni> I only read about it
[19:21:00] <robin_sz> so doze tends not to use LDAP then?
[19:21:02] <alex_joni> but I definately took a mental note to try it out some day
[19:21:08] <alex_joni> afaik .. no
[19:21:12] <robin_sz> right
[19:21:15] <alex_joni> only serious systems use LDAP
[19:21:17] <Jymmm> robin_sz What version of windows?
[19:21:23] <alex_joni> maybe win2k
[19:21:23] <robin_sz> dunno
[19:21:27] <robin_sz> lets say XP
[19:21:28] <alex_joni> and xp-pro might
[19:21:41] <robin_sz> hmm
[19:21:44] <robin_sz> I have XP home
[19:21:59] <Jymmm> XP can (to an extent), but its usually the server that actually does do LDAP
[19:22:04] <robin_sz> I just want two computers to have access to the same list of clients
[19:22:20] <Jymmm> robin_sz for a phonebook?
[19:22:33] <robin_sz> im talking about lists of contacts for use in email clients, wordprocessing packages etc
[19:22:33] <alex_joni> robin: before we continue this discussion, let me know if you find a suitable solution
[19:22:38] <robin_sz> right
[19:22:44] <alex_joni> now... let's talk ;)
[19:22:53] <alex_joni> I was thinking about this too
[19:23:03] <robin_sz> I thought/hoped thunderbird would use ldap
[19:23:06] <alex_joni> my needs are kinda similar, but a bit different
[19:23:08] <Jymmm> robin_sz Oh, so you want to connect to a ldap server from Word for a mailing, etc?
[19:23:26] <alex_joni> my users wouldn't have to access the whole list
[19:23:36] <alex_joni> each user would only need to see a sublist
[19:23:44] <alex_joni> only some would get the whole thing
[19:23:45] <Jymmm> robin_sz Sure, you can do that, Office 2000 has no problem connecting to an LDAP server.
[19:23:56] <Jymmm> Office 2003 is even better
[19:23:58] <alex_joni> Jymmm: tried that out?
[19:24:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni it accesses it via MAPI
[19:24:34] <alex_joni> don't know MAPI
[19:24:39] <alex_joni> what's that?
[19:24:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm going to strangle ubuntu soon!!!
[19:25:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni kicks A-L-P-H-A from this channel because of reaching the maximum number of joins today
[19:29:37] <alex_joni> robin: http://www.ahinc.com/openexchange.html
[19:31:40] <alex_joni> http://mirror.open-xchange.org/ox/EN/community/
[19:34:16] <robin_sz> alex_joni: looking. im also asking on #thunderbird;)
[19:34:41] <alex_joni> seems open-xchange does a lot more than a plain LDAP
[19:34:59] <robin_sz> well, thats not always a good ting
[19:35:07] <alex_joni> it even relies on LDAP (not really sure if it relies on LDAP, or provides LDAP for further usage)
[19:36:15] <alex_joni> This environment can be accessed via any modern web browser and multiple fat clients like KDE Kontact, Apples iCAL, Konqueror, Mozilla Calendar, any many more, based on open standards and interfaces.
[19:36:37] <alex_joni> "Every 3rd party product can access this application over many different interfaces such as WebDAV (XML), LDAP, iCal, and HTTP/S. This makes the OPEN-XCHANGE application a powerful product which can be used in many of different business and private areas successfully delivering access to e-mail and distributed groupware functions."
[19:36:48] <rayh_fest> I see that there was a bit of uncertainty about the meaning of
[19:37:09] <rayh_fest> bridgeport and minimill in relation to the code unification.
[19:37:44] <rayh_fest> These are functional rather than path or source notions.
[19:38:09] <robin_sz> hmm
[19:38:11] <alex_joni> rayh: will the bridgeport & minimill concepts stay in emc2 too?
[19:38:12] <rayh_fest> We are interested in first building a EMC2 code that a user
[19:38:27] <rayh_fest> can not distinguish from it's equivalent operating under emc.
[19:38:31] <robin_sz> rayh_fest: I was more interested in exactly what "HAL-ified motion control" meant
[19:38:35] <alex_joni> or will they be built around a general IO-controller as a special case?
[19:39:05] <rayh_fest> We did not describe the specific path to a bridgeport system
[19:39:19] <rayh_fest> IMO it should be cl based
[19:39:43] <rayh_fest> Halified means that the abstraction layer will be used
[19:39:51] <rayh_fest> to connect to hardware.
[19:40:20] <rayh_fest> Since the hal modules use separate SHMEM space
[19:40:37] <alex_joni> right
[19:40:39] <rayh_fest> and the revised names for variables
[19:40:45] <alex_joni> did the hal-config stuff get sorted out?
[19:41:01] <rayh_fest> Much of the user side hal feeding stuff will be retained also.
[19:41:24] <rayh_fest> No to config except that we are able to read INI variables
[19:41:43] <alex_joni> right
[19:41:46] <rayh_fest> and convert them to whatever units/numbers hal config expects
[19:41:57] <alex_joni> that will be done from emc.run ?
[19:41:57] <rayh_fest> and stuff them into the modules during setup.
[19:42:06] <alex_joni> or from halcmd?
[19:42:14] <rayh_fest> I don't know the specific details of how.
[19:42:28] <alex_joni> never mind then.. I'll bug jmk next week
[19:42:39] <alex_joni> after the work flow starts to drop ;)
[19:42:56] <rayh_fest> John and Josh worked that out late yesterday and John did some coding last night.
[19:43:03] <alex_joni> nice
[19:43:06] <alex_joni> who's Josh?
[19:43:33] <rayh_fest> Josh Hall -- new guy with interest is applying EMC to nano stuff.
[19:44:05] <alex_joni> nano?
[19:44:25] <alex_joni> as in small robots crawling inside people?
[19:44:37] <rayh_fest> sub micron machine operation
[19:44:49] <alex_joni> ahhh.. so still machining ;)
[19:44:55] <alex_joni> ok.. that relates to emc
[19:45:26] <rayh_fest> The distant objective is an atomic level pick and place robot
[19:45:40] <alex_joni> NICE
[19:45:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wants to move atoms around
[19:46:01] <rayh_fest> Interesting stuff.
[19:47:33] <robin_sz> ahh. yes. but not exactly useful
[19:49:01] <alex_joni> robin: any feedback on #thunderbird?
[19:52:41] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:52:51] <alex_joni> well?
[19:52:54] <robin_sz> it can use any OpenLDAP server
[19:52:57] <robin_sz> tools > Options > Composition > Directory Serve
[19:52:59] <robin_sz> are
[19:53:23] <robin_sz> i have openLDAP running ... going to try it now
[19:53:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I give up. back into windows
[19:53:42] <robin_sz> sigh
[19:54:09] <robin_sz> you know ... today I added a new fax-modem to a doze box
[19:54:20] <robin_sz> and a printer
[19:54:33] <robin_sz> and you know what config tricks I had to do?
[19:54:39] <alex_joni> what?
[19:54:41] <robin_sz> the hoops and loops I had to jump.
[19:54:43] <robin_sz> ??
[19:54:46] <robin_sz> none.
[19:55:01] <robin_sz> I just plugged em in and they all were just there and working
[19:55:04] <alex_joni> heh
[19:55:32] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders why the M$ mouse doesn't have a better driver to use under linux
[19:55:36] <robin_sz> that Mr gates is getting quite user friendly thes days im afraid
[19:56:27] <A-L-P-H-A> yes, sigh.
[19:56:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm back in the evil world.
[19:58:32] <alex_joni> robin: try doing that with cups
[19:58:59] <alex_joni> you do have a lot of flexibility & stability
[19:59:10] <alex_joni> but at a configuration nightmare cost
[19:59:25] <robin_sz> well yeah
[19:59:37] <robin_sz> in linux I just use "networked" printers
[19:59:47] <robin_sz> simplest really
[20:00:14] <alex_joni> I want to network printers
[20:00:20] <alex_joni> but to keep them on the linux server
[20:00:27] <alex_joni> as I want to archive all that is printed
[20:00:29] <robin_sz> alex_joni: apt-get install slapd
[20:00:35] <alex_joni> and doze can't do that
[20:00:36] <robin_sz> coo.
[20:00:39] <robin_sz> why?
[20:00:40] <alex_joni> openLDAP ?
[20:00:44] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:00:48] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.hh: Added EMC_SYSTEM_CMD stuff from BDI-4
[20:00:48] <robin_sz> why archive?
[20:00:50] <alex_joni> why what?
[20:00:56] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/emc.cc: Added EMC_SYSTEM_CMD stuff from BDI-4, manually. THIS IS NOT FROM CODEGEN.
[20:01:04] <alex_joni> for backup reasons
[20:01:20] <alex_joni> * alex_joni doesn't trust paper
[20:01:22] <alex_joni> :D
[20:01:45] <robin_sz> yeah,
[20:01:52] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc.hh: Added user M code, changed range of M codes from 99 to 199
[20:01:55] <robin_sz> say the cellulose dumps core ...
[20:02:52] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_return.hh: Changed NCE_M_CODE_GREATER_THAN_99 to NCE_M_CODE_GREATER_THAN_199
[20:03:00] <robin_sz> ahh fsck, we have an election soon. I was trying to ignore that
[20:03:35] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc: Added user-defined M codes, from BDI-4
[20:03:44] <alex_joni> robin: what election?
[20:04:02] <robin_sz> we are re-electing Bush's poodle
[20:04:45] <dave-e> ray...you around?
[20:05:07] <alex_joni> dave: he was a few mins ago
[20:05:16] <dave-e> hi alex
[20:05:25] <alex_joni> hello
[20:05:28] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/src/emc/task/ (emccanon.cc emctask.cc emctaskmain.cc): Added user-defined M codes, from BDI-4
[20:05:38] <dave-e> he tends to wander in and out
[20:05:56] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:06:00] <rayh_fest> Hi dave.
[20:06:10] <dave-e> ah...you are awake
[20:06:26] <dave-e> so how is progress
[20:06:27] <alex_joni> he's festering ;)
[20:06:33] <dave-e> indeed
[20:06:40] <rayh_fest> Um. Some here would say that is an unknown.
[20:06:57] <dave-e> what is the status of classic-ladder/emc
[20:07:23] <alex_joni> dave: that's on the to-do list
[20:07:55] <dave-e> I know but matt and ray are going to need it before I do
[20:08:41] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/configs/emc.ini: Changed PROGRAM_PREFIX from programs/ to nc_files/
[20:09:06] <dave-e> looks like fred is busy
[20:09:17] <alex_joni> pretty ;)
[20:10:34] <rayh_fest> We decided to migrate existing tags into a single code base.
[20:10:47] <rayh_fest> That is built around a combination of
[20:11:00] <rayh_fest> emc2 and bdi-4.xx
[20:11:17] <rayh_fest> This means getting compiles of hal on 2.6
[20:11:22] <alex_joni> will that go on the next BDI disks?
[20:11:37] <rayh_fest> Paul would have to answer that.
[20:11:39] <alex_joni> when it'll be emc1-functional-equivalent
[20:11:59] <rayh_fest> Tomorrow night???
[20:12:07] <dave-e> yeh sure
[20:12:17] <rayh_fest> When that migration is complete and we are able to build
[20:12:25] <alex_joni> that wasn't a question...
[20:12:33] <alex_joni> ahhh
[20:12:43] <rayh_fest> then the decision will be made on an approach to logic.
[20:12:50] <alex_joni> so it'll be emc1 equivalent when the migration is finished?
[20:13:10] <rayh_fest> We are expecting HAL with NML contacts and coils
[20:13:43] <rayh_fest> As well as a link to SHMEM and HAL for actual hardware interface.
[20:13:50] <dave-e> that's a useful step
[20:14:04] <rayh_fest> passing of state between HAL and CL.
[20:14:12] <CIA-8> 03proctor * 10emc2/nc_files/ (M101 M102.c):
[20:14:12] <CIA-8> Added M101, M102.c as example custom M code files that print their P and Q
[20:14:12] <CIA-8> values.
[20:17:17] <dave-e> well, guess I'd better go use emc1 to make some chips
[20:17:22] <dave-e> see ya later
[20:17:32] <alex_joni> later
[20:23:34] <SWPadnos> http://www.captain.at/programming/rtai/parportint.php
[20:25:13] <alex_joni> SWP: what's that for?
[20:35:17] <alex_joni> right
[20:35:21] <alex_joni> * alex_joni signs off
[20:35:24] <alex_joni> night guys
[20:52:43] <Phydbleep> ROFL! Poor Script Kiddie http://dknoppix.com/matt/?p=46
[21:02:06] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc/src/emctask/tkbackplot.tcl: plot size set for g20/21
[22:08:15] <dmess> hi all
[22:08:19] <anonimasu> hey
[22:08:55] <Phydbleep> Re. :)
[22:09:23] <dmess> http://www.airbus.com/A380/seeing/indexminisite.aspx
[22:09:32] <dmess> cool videos...
[22:09:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been cussing Q-Worst for cutting the phone off without warning.
[22:10:32] <dmess> gonna be 1 million pound take off weight i figure.... whos q-worst??
[22:12:05] <anonimasu> qwest
[22:12:09] <anonimasu> I think
[22:12:31] <Phydbleep> Phone Co.. Used to be US-Worst (US-West) Then Q-Worst (Q-West) bought them out waited a few years and then reverted to the "Fsck You, Give us money and we'll think about giving you a phone next year" business model.
[22:14:04] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep need to call the state AG tomorrow and point out that when Q-Worst cut the service they also cut the 911 service.. Big No-No here.
[22:15:59] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: Why did they cut it?
[22:17:28] <dmess> cell or land line??
[22:18:01] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Past due bill they claimm... I'm still waiting for a bill from them.. The US-Worst model was to skip mailing a bill to 10% of the customers and then cut-off/reconnect to rake in a $40 service charge..
[22:18:12] <dmess> NO cell can have its 911 cut off..
[22:18:29] <Phydbleep> No landline is supposed to either..
[22:18:50] <dmess> oh i see.... really..
[22:19:36] <Phydbleep> But, that didn't stop them.. They've already pulled the line and re-assigned the copper pair to another circuit..
[22:19:39] <dmess> i have a 3 Kg x 3 watt bagg phone i wanna try from the cottage...
[22:20:11] <dmess> re assigned the copper already is pretty odd...
[22:20:52] <dmess> where are you Phydbleep
[22:20:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would like to give them a 3Kg bagphone at 14x10^51 KM/Sec.
[22:21:55] <dmess> thats about what my buddy suffered on friday...in Fla... died on the way to the hospital....
[22:21:56] <Phydbleep> New Mexico.. Land of the flea, Home of the plague.. The place where you come on vacation and leave on probation. :)
[22:22:52] <dmess> diving for dollars....is
[22:22:55] <Phydbleep> dmess: What happened?
[22:23:10] <dmess> NOT a game to be played by the faint at heart
[22:23:14] <Phydbleep> Oh.. Glider accident?
[22:23:40] <Phydbleep> Or Vodka fueled frat prank?
[22:23:43] <dmess> yeah... really bad... 1/2 second of time and space... for him..
[22:25:12] <dmess> its Fla. comp season... they were at Qeust air....for a comp.. and had a bag of about 2-3 hundred bucks out in the L/z...
[22:25:46] <Phydbleep> Skim through, grab it and it's yours game?
[22:25:53] <dmess> if you could scoop it up it was yours...
[22:26:21] <dmess> thats NOT the competition AT ALL
[22:26:48] <dmess> but a side deal "some" entertained...
[22:26:54] <Phydbleep> Downdraft or misjudged the altitude?
[22:27:37] <dmess> Chris Muller was 1 of the fines hang/paragliding pilots EVER to put on a harness...
[22:28:06] <dmess> but he's been living on the edge for tooo long......
[22:28:25] <Phydbleep> Ow, Bummer. :\
[22:29:19] <dmess> he come in at about 85-95 mph and skimmed over the ground at 4"... when you get a little bump down... its INTO the platet @ speed with the basebar...
[22:30:14] <dmess> front wires snapped and the gliger transfered any remaining E int pancaking Chris into the planet
[22:30:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thought there were liitle wheels on the grabbar to prevent that.
[22:31:01] <Phydbleep> Fenn! :)
[22:31:07] <dmess> he was in a x/c comp ...had no wheels at all.. topless ship too
[22:31:08] <fenn> g'day
[22:31:17] <dmess> Fenn???
[22:32:34] <dmess> any wheel at those speeds is still a ??? as to if it'd help or hinder....
[22:33:18] <dmess> you cant hang onto anyting in keep you from rotating thru...
[22:33:46] <Phydbleep> Ouch.. So he had 6 sticks of various lengths and a bed-sheet moving @ 150kph through the air..
[22:33:52] <dmess> i think we've just found a design parameter of my new harsess
[22:34:21] <Phydbleep> Full body crash-cage?
[22:34:49] <dmess> a few more sticks than that... but he was only 6 " agl....
[22:35:30] <Phydbleep> ?? 6 " agl ??
[22:35:39] <dmess> no the harness im dreamin' will allow you to use the GLIDER as a buffer zone..
[22:36:06] <dmess> yeah... 6 (six ) " ( as in inches)
[22:36:35] <dmess> above ground level - agl
[22:36:43] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was picturing something like the old WWII glider frame before the fabric was appplied.
[22:37:05] <dmess> puff from a bug... and 0"agl = crash & burn...
[22:37:27] <dmess> www.flyhigh.com
[22:37:31] <Phydbleep> Well, Crash anyway. :\
[22:37:47] <dmess> just gliders...
[22:38:16] <dmess> puff of dust in front of the bag of $$$
[22:38:48] <dmess> its on video... but i dont need to se
[22:40:05] <Phydbleep> Neither do I.. i got to see a forest service chopper go "Woof!" because the pilot was in a hurry and skipped topping off his fuel tanks. :
[22:40:26] <dmess> i taught for flyhigh
[22:41:44] <dmess> i built their 2nd/3rd mountain in a box
[22:42:03] <Phydbleep> I came to the conclusion a long time ago the if we were intended to fly, we'd be built more like flying squirrels..
[22:42:18] <dmess> www.uflyontario.com
[22:43:12] <Phydbleep> Or we'd be born with a built in anti-grav unit. :)
[22:43:17] <dmess> another buddy.... i was the first pilot to fly his site... did a tree top landing... scared my son as much as his wife... ; )
[22:43:42] <dmess> i have one of them.... it slows down time too...
[22:43:47] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep knows idiots who tree-top for fun.
[22:44:22] <dmess> i did it for practice.... but it was fun... ; )
[22:44:41] <Phydbleep> And then there's the guys who like to play with the ballistic recovery unit on the Cessna.
[22:45:15] <Phydbleep> While doing a flat-spin. :{
[22:45:48] <dmess> i know pilos who launch with FULL intention of needing to EXTRACT themselves... aint no L/Z here... find a fluffy maple and save the glider..
[22:46:15] <Jymmm> heh... he said fluffy maple
[22:46:49] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep starts a rousing chant of "Darwin! Darwin! Darwin!"
[22:48:24] <dmess> i deployed a balistic parachute last summer.... owner was scared to pull it for sim. so we bought it off him and i deployed it laying on my back on a pick-nik table to see if i could aim it...
[22:49:17] <Phydbleep> Yeah, But the guys who go out, put the plane into a flat-spin and then see if the ballistic chute will keep them from becoming a mesa mound are begging for a Darwin Award. :)
[22:49:19] <dmess> bro... gimme a tree to land in and i'll meet you at the bottom fo beer...
[22:49:53] <Phydbleep> dmess: Even in a Cessna 182?
[22:49:54] <dmess> but straight into the planet.. isnt so nice... been there.. got the damage
[22:51:05] <Phydbleep> Got to hear the radio traffic on that one... "OK, Here we go..... WHEE!.... WHEE!... WHEE!!! *POP*"
[22:51:08] <dmess> id jump outta that
[22:51:14] <dmess> DURING
[22:51:36] <dmess> the flat spin... thats why the put doors on em'
[22:52:18] <les> heh most planes I fly in utility cat don't spin flat
[22:52:28] <les> look out the front...dirt!
[22:52:29] <dmess> Jymmm ... trust me some are "fluffier than others"
[22:52:46] <Phydbleep> Chute dropped it nicely though.. They taxied it back over and it was fine.. They were worried about stress on the LG with the chute, but it wa sOK.
[22:52:47] <Jymmm> dmess lol
[22:53:26] <Phydbleep> dmess: None of them are fluffy in Jan. :)
[22:53:30] <dmess> if it come down under CHUT.. it would NEED re-cert... Guarentee.
[22:53:45] <dmess> les you seen the a380 fly??
[22:54:46] <Phydbleep> dmess: This was during the testing phase.. They have a 182 with a X cert.
[22:54:52] <dmess> in January.. i'll land on ANY piece of frozen water 100' long
[22:55:12] <Jymmm> pontoons?
[22:55:25] <dmess> skis
[22:55:30] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Ice scakes is more like it.
[22:55:36] <Jymmm> ah, heh. I knew it was soemthing like that
[22:55:37] <dmess> or my belly... been there
[22:55:38] <Phydbleep> skates.
[22:55:51] <dmess> nope snow on lakes here
[22:56:12] <Phydbleep> Sui-Saucer. :)
[22:57:09] <dmess> winter flying is no problems.... to date...
[22:57:23] <dmess> http://www.airbus.com/A380/seeing/indexminisite.aspx
[22:57:27] <dmess> for les
[22:57:31] <Phydbleep> Sui-Saucer == 24" - 36" ski-dish/disc.. Just try and steer that SOB at velocity.. :)
[22:58:50] <dmess> i ran a ski hill fro 5 yrs in norther ontario... the best ride there was the t-bar line on a 35 gallon propane bottle...
[22:59:13] <dmess> after hrs of course..
[22:59:20] <dmess> in the dark...
[22:59:33] <dmess> cuz someone shot out our lights
[22:59:57] <les> I saw the big airbuss on cnn
[23:00:01] <les> airbus
[23:00:04] <les> wow.
[23:00:21] <les> looks like a blimp.
[23:00:43] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I'm glad to see there wasn't a convenient "accident" to give Boeing a boost. :)
[23:00:45] <Jymmm> les have your ears been ringing?
[23:00:54] <dmess> and the 1st flight was alotta 1st as well..
[23:01:00] <les> ? heheh
[23:01:38] <les> I just spent the day setting up shopping cart sites
[23:01:44] <Jymmm> les oh joy
[23:01:44] <les> That is new to me
[23:01:51] <les> so some to learn
[23:01:54] <dmess> i just quivered when they said the retracted the gear.... pilot pucker factor went up like 1000%
[23:02:05] <les> yeah
[23:02:52] <dmess> im gonna be the 1st fo fly her.. and the first to flop her down without wheels
[23:03:02] <les> oooh
[23:03:45] <dmess> oh.. heay... theres only gonna be about 150,000 pple watchin YOU fucdge up
[23:03:57] <les> haha
[23:04:22] <les> I remember I had too many watching when I soloed a long time ago
[23:04:27] <les> made me nervous
[23:05:00] <dmess> i'd a flown it last nite... then again this am... sorry.. you dont see the maiden fu@# up on my shift
[23:05:37] <les> I did ok as I recall...but I was scared sh#tless
[23:06:14] <les> I am afraid of heights.
[23:06:19] <dmess> we try to tell pilots who want their friends to see them... to wait till they can see them win the Canuck X/C title...
[23:06:37] <dmess> you fly to them... dont bring them here
[23:06:43] <les> heh
[23:08:48] <Jymmm> les : a couple of times you've mentioned "bi metal" and it not being a good idea, any light readin on the sunject?
[23:09:58] <les> oh some if you google it. Bottom line is AL has twice the thermal expansion coeff. of steel. It's an issue.
[23:10:22] <les> big machines grow and shrink a lot
[23:11:11] <dmess> correct.... castings... need time &temp to normalize...
[23:11:11] <Jymmm> les : Ok, that answered by question. Thanks.
[23:11:18] <les> I think mine grows .02 or so over 6 feet after I turn the heat on in the winter
[23:11:49] <les> The concrete floor changes a lot too
[23:11:53] <Jymmm> les I'm thinking aluminum rails + steel bearings.
[23:11:56] <les> depending on humidity
[23:12:01] <dmess> any type of thermal comp built in..??? NOT
[23:12:14] <les> emc can do that yeah
[23:12:26] <les> I am not using it
[23:12:37] <dmess> pitch gradient compensation???
[23:12:49] <les> yeah
[23:13:00] <dmess> hmm
[23:13:37] <les> absolute accuracy of .02 mm or so over a couple meters requires good temp control
[23:13:47] <les> like a couple degrees
[23:14:21] <les> couple/few
[23:15:23] <dmess> yes.. i understand that... many ppl think you can just add leadscrew to make it longer..
[23:15:42] <les> heh
[23:16:09] <les> the worst thing is to bolt a steel rail to an aluminum frame
[23:16:15] <les> total pretzel
[23:16:22] <dmess> we HAD to laser some machimes to .015 over 9 M
[23:17:10] <dmess> alum age hardens and if its been welded you just sped it up
[23:18:47] <les> yeah
[23:19:23] <les> I used a mig method for steel that gave minimum warping in the heat affected zone
[23:19:43] <les> on stitch kinda stress relieves the last next to it
[23:19:47] <les> one
[23:25:16] <Phydbleep> les skip-stitch? Weld 1/4", skip 6", repeat till nice seam?
[23:25:51] <les> yeah something like that
[23:26:00] <les> but closer than 6 "
[23:26:14] <les> and you go caddy corner in between
[23:26:19] <dmess> yup and keep moving... we used to put wet rags over certian welds...to move things around... welding with indicators on...
[23:26:28] <les> yeah
[23:26:51] <dmess> looked more like a boring mill setup
[23:26:52] <les> I had very good luck...only .001 warping after a couple months
[23:27:00] <Phydbleep> Nice. :)
[23:27:13] <les> no need to stress relieve the whole structure
[23:27:22] <les> also...use ht rolled
[23:27:27] <les> that helps a lot
[23:27:40] <les> hot
[23:27:53] <dmess> ht... helped.. for sure... is it bolted dow>>
[23:27:58] <dmess> down??
[23:28:36] <les> yeah I have special bolts to the concrete floor...some can move
[23:28:52] <dmess> good foundation can hide faulty workmanship too...
[23:29:05] <les> heh
[23:29:27] <les> well..the floor is part of the machine structure in a router
[23:29:36] <les> can't ignore it
[23:30:57] <dmess> id be curios to see how it mapps in a free sprun state...?? sound like youve made a SUPER straight structure...
[23:31:22] <les> when it rains a slab concrete floor grows around the edges...that makes the whole thing concave
[23:31:32] <dmess> for a weldment anyway
[23:31:49] <les> I did the ways to .0005" flat at 25c
[23:32:13] <les> and 50% RH
[23:32:34] <dmess> but if the floor doesnt have the aggregate under it... it will be convex..
[23:33:00] <les> damp: goes concave
[23:33:03] <dmess> it stores watter..
[23:33:17] <les> dry: goes convex
[23:33:25] <les> aggregate helps a lot
[23:33:29] <dmess> bcz youve got something under it...
[23:33:35] <les> but it still does it some
[23:34:32] <les> lots of aggregate and a perimeter drain helps
[23:34:49] <dmess> ive seen installs where ... it was ... sign this off... no guarentee of repeatabilit...
[23:34:57] <dmess> Y...
[23:35:01] <les> yeah
[23:35:09] <dmess> and lets get outta dodge...
[23:36:11] <dmess> 3M x 2M boring mill sitting on 4-5 inches of concrete that was poured in the pouring rain...
[23:36:17] <les> well you can't do large High accuracy stuff without watching the temp and humidity...that's for sure
[23:36:36] <dmess> and it rained for 2 wks after it went in...
[23:36:42] <les> and other stuff
[23:37:14] <les> like a lab grade surface plate will warp out of spec if you just have a light above it
[23:37:56] <dmess> it didnt settle or even set as far as im concerned.. we put the machine on 2 wks after it was poured
[23:38:33] <les> yeah
[23:38:44] <les> such things are issues
[23:39:41] <dmess> its difficult being EX-factory... i guess.... you get spoiled..
[23:40:02] <les> heh
[23:42:23] <les> hmmm I just got an email from Bill W the cced list owner.
[23:42:39] <les> he is plagued by trojan problems
[23:42:50] <les> but the good new is that
[23:43:11] <les> he just past 8000 members
[23:43:32] <les> is
[23:43:38] <les> I forgot an is
[23:43:53] <les> the sun is in my eyes
[23:43:59] <Jymmm> yeah, he;ll have to moderate himself
[23:44:02] <les> can't see the monitor
[23:44:09] <les> he did jymmm
[23:44:20] <Jymmm> les Yeah, I read =)
[23:44:51] <Jymmm> but I get digest so it's not too bad
[23:45:19] <les> I told bill he was getting nailed by the trojan servpam
[23:45:41] <les> I think
[23:45:59] <Jymmm> next time tell him he's getting nailed by torjan condoms and see what he says.
[23:46:07] <les> haha
[23:47:49] <les> aw he's ok...He gets critisized for being a hard ass about OT
[23:48:05] <Jymmm> heh
[23:48:20] <les> but you have to do that on a group that size or it will become a spam/trollfest
[23:49:00] <Jymmm> yeah
[23:49:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sighs
[23:49:41] <Jymmm> aluminum bearing block + steel bearings + aluminum rail
[23:49:45] <dave-e> les....the interp doc (.ps) claims that the interp will do expressions...is that so?
[23:50:00] <les> yes it will
[23:50:06] <Phydbleep> Couldn't he feed the spam to the troll?
[23:50:07] <Jymmm> brb
[23:50:19] <dave-e> I thought I tried and it didn't...
[23:50:42] <les> I don't use them...but it says it does
[23:50:53] <dave-e> simple stuff G1 X 1.000+.005 etc
[23:51:00] <les> yeah
[23:51:10] <dave-e> guess I'll go try again.
[23:51:17] <les> it is supposed to work
[23:51:37] <dmess> harent there brackets involved??
[23:51:47] <les> soon I guess subroutines and looping too
[23:51:52] <dave-e> I don't know
[23:52:21] <dmess> and try a space BEFORE the + sighn first
[23:52:21] <dave-e> I would expect parens but could use an example that works
[23:52:49] <dmess> on a winblowz box at the moment..
[23:53:06] <les> but I am most concerned about TP....I am considering emc as part of a commercial product
[23:53:20] <dmess> tp??
[23:53:26] <dave-e> that makes sense for you....
[23:53:28] <les> if we cannot debug SQ....it's dead.
[23:53:46] <les> the trajectory planner in emc.
[23:53:57] <dave-e> did you read the paper alex pointed to?
[23:54:04] <dmess> but their are many good ideas for that.. youve had a bunch..
[23:54:07] <les> it is completely un workable in a modern machine
[23:54:52] <les> yes I read it... I have also had Fred and Rogier (the author of SQ) here to work on it
[23:55:09] <dmess> so les... from what ive read... its an iterative TP correct or not??
[23:55:35] <les> a TP does not have to iterate
[23:55:44] <les> think of it as a transform
[23:56:21] <dave-e> that may or may not smooth over a number of points
[23:56:34] <dmess> and its too slow??? what EXACTLy is its fault in you opinion?
[23:56:39] <les> we just have to debug it
[23:56:48] <les> we will start next week
[23:56:56] <les> if we fail...
[23:57:16] <les> emc I s basically dead as a modern high speed controller
[23:57:19] <dmess> i will scan the docs i have for you les..
[23:57:28] <Phydbleep> You vill NOT fail! Failure is not an option!
[23:57:33] <les> heh
[23:57:35] <les> ok
[23:57:47] <fenn> yeah how can you fail at debugging?
[23:57:48] <dmess> failure is for losers...
[23:58:04] <Phydbleep> les: Glad you see it my way. :)
[23:58:08] <les> heh
[23:58:16] <dave-e> how many lines of code?
[23:58:22] <les> ok paul and I will not fail.
[23:58:30] <dmess> would smoothing algorithms help any les???
[23:58:44] <les> it is a smoothing algo.
[23:59:35] <dmess> and its fault is??? no parameter input??
[23:59:47] <les> Understand...I am on the verge of considering a commercial cnc tool.
[23:59:50] <Phydbleep> Not smooth enough?
[23:59:59] <les> It involves a lot of money.