#emc | Logs for 2005-04-24

[00:00:00] <robin_sz> and anyway, it would cost more. I aint that rich
[00:01:09] <les> just shot out an email to Till on the list
[00:01:20] <les> hope it makes sense.
[00:01:39] <robin_sz> does it say "all your base are belong to us"?
[00:01:49] <les> ha
[00:02:04] <les> it is about segmentqueue and cubic.c
[00:02:24] <robin_sz> when does paul_c get to you?
[00:02:43] <les> in about a week
[00:02:43] <robin_sz> right
[00:02:47] <anonimasu> les: got a soltion?
[00:02:50] <anonimasu> solution?
[00:02:53] <anonimasu> ^_^
[00:02:55] <robin_sz> I have my G200x running on my bench btw :)
[00:03:22] <les> We wiil just run on a real machine and try to debug.
[00:03:31] <anonimasu> nice
[00:03:46] <robin_sz> ever seen a NEMA34 stepper spin at 3000rpm? ;)
[00:03:49] <les> Also I will have the glentek folks visit while he is here
[00:03:50] <Phydbleep> Les! :)
[00:03:56] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:04:02] <les> hey
[00:04:37] <les> At that time we will decide on the idea of marketing cnc machines.
[00:04:48] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder what torque you have :)
[00:04:53] <les> at 3000? not much i guess
[00:04:57] <Phydbleep> les: My samples came in for the sensor chips.
[00:04:58] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[00:05:18] <robin_sz> but it has the same power outout as at 600rpm ...
[00:05:21] <les> Phy which sensors?
[00:05:31] <Phydbleep> For the 4096 ppr encoders.
[00:06:17] <robin_sz> so, with some gearing ... anyway, 3000rpm was too fast really, just a test of how fast they spin
[00:06:26] <Phydbleep> There's an 8-pin dip to test with and something I can barely see for the production ones.
[00:06:29] <les> hmm constant power means min radii are the square of the speed
[00:06:45] <les> no wait a sec
[00:06:51] <les> let me think
[00:07:05] <les> the cube of the speed
[00:07:14] <les> right.
[00:07:14] <robin_sz> square sounded better
[00:07:47] <les> constant torque is square...A= V^2/r
[00:08:01] <les> so constant power must be a cube
[00:08:14] <robin_sz> ?
[00:08:24] <robin_sz> torqu drops off lineraly with rpm
[00:08:35] <robin_sz> for constant power
[00:09:02] <anonimasu> spinning at 6krpm is still cool
[00:09:02] <anonimasu> :)
[00:09:02] <les> torque = k/V for constant power...speed goes up, torque goes down
[00:09:05] <anonimasu> but usable speed
[00:09:31] <robin_sz> and anyway, min radii is related to available acceleration,
[00:09:45] <les> which is torque
[00:09:51] <robin_sz> right
[00:10:13] <robin_sz> OUTPUT torque of the motor/gearbox combo .. not motoro torque
[00:10:32] <robin_sz> so with a constant power output ..
[00:10:50] <robin_sz> and 2:1 or 4:1 gearbox ...
[00:10:53] <les> so in general corner radii go up as the square of speed for servos and the cube for conventional steppers right?
[00:11:10] <robin_sz> I get the same output torque at a particular output shaft rpm
[00:11:21] <robin_sz> internally, the motor spins twice as quick
[00:11:25] <robin_sz> with half the rpm
[00:11:32] <les> of course if you supply more baseline torque in the first place you can compensate some
[00:11:46] <robin_sz> not really, no
[00:11:59] <robin_sz> because stepper system do not operate torqu limited
[00:12:18] <robin_sz> they usually operate well below stall torque .. maybe only 25%
[00:12:18] <les> I mean to the stepper...providing that inertia does not go up the same amount
[00:12:52] <les> 25%...ok
[00:13:07] <robin_sz> so from a typical stepper system you get the same corner radii at low and high speeds, simply because its so far within its margins ..
[00:13:24] <les> so it's just a torque to polar moment of inertia thing
[00:13:31] <robin_sz> this will change witht he "unstallable" G200X variant of course :)
[00:13:40] <les> gee I think that ratio is called?
[00:13:48] <les> acceleration.
[00:13:51] <robin_sz> heh
[00:14:16] <robin_sz> anyway ..
[00:14:27] <robin_sz> i ahve the basic FPGA based variant running fine ...
[00:14:47] <les> Well good. It's still in the running...
[00:15:03] <les> I of course still want an emc commercial machine
[00:15:06] <les> but
[00:15:14] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, I would have thought you two went to code fest.
[00:15:18] <A-L-P-H-A> when is it again?
[00:15:23] <robin_sz> nah, not me
[00:15:24] <les> if we cannot fix segmentqueue fully it's just plain dead
[00:15:51] <Jymmm> 0.191 oz-in^2
[00:16:01] <robin_sz> for me, EMC will never spin steppers like dedicated hardware
[00:16:50] <les> agreed...native pc is not the place to generate steps
[00:16:51] <robin_sz> the simplicity of a USB connection from a standard PC running either 'doze or linux, no RT complications ...
[00:16:59] <A-L-P-H-A> 0.191 oz-in is weeak.
[00:17:20] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: geared down 100:1 its fine.
[00:17:21] <les> jymm meant oz in s^2
[00:17:32] <les> inertia not torque
[00:17:44] <Jymmm> yeah rotar inertia
[00:17:46] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: That was the other reason i wanted to offlod to the hardware.. No rt. .No mp3 player glitches. :)
[00:18:05] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: yeah, agreed
[00:18:23] <robin_sz> so long as its open source hardware, I'm happy :)
[00:18:26] <Jymmm> les was looking at oriental motors website, but I'm clueless (espeiaclly today)
[00:19:17] <les> I used oriental motor steppers for some of that encoder production testing gear
[00:19:37] <A-L-P-H-A> wow. that's really fine movement. 100:1
[00:20:14] <les> hi jmk
[00:20:21] <jmkasunich> hi les
[00:20:26] <les> in gaithersburg?
[00:20:32] <jmkasunich> I wish
[00:20:38] <A-L-P-H-A> has everyone bailed...
[00:20:38] <anonimasu> I dont think you should offload the segment planner from the p...
[00:20:39] <jmkasunich> still franticlly packing
[00:20:44] <A-L-P-H-A> watch it only be paul_c showing up. heh
[00:20:44] <anonimasu> pc..
[00:20:57] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, bring a webcam.
[00:21:04] <jmkasunich> has Imperator been around? he might already be on a plane
[00:21:10] <anonimasu> unless you can backport/port changes that happens to whatever you generate your motion with back to the the program..
[00:21:12] <A-L-P-H-A> and then setup a direct link, so I can video confrenece in, and shove my stupid 2cents in.
[00:21:14] <les> he is I think
[00:21:22] <jmkasunich> bummer
[00:21:31] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone greeting him at the airport?
[00:21:42] <jmkasunich> got a mail from him, he's staying at the same motel as me, I wanted to arrange a meeting time/place
[00:21:58] <les> he was going to stay down here with Paul and I after the code fest but could not get his flight changed at such a late date
[00:22:14] <les> pity
[00:22:18] <jmkasunich> I've been stuck at work last few days, no chance to touch base with folks
[00:22:40] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: I'm offloading the movement path storage and all the encoder logic.
[00:22:45] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, don't touch people's bases without permission... otherwise you may get slapped, or worse, beatup.
[00:22:57] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich Greetings. :)
[00:23:13] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is too tired for A-L-P-H-A's banter
[00:23:18] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: motion planning?
[00:23:23] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[00:23:40] <les> JMK I just wrote a longish list email to Till
[00:23:46] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... I gotta finish getting ready.
[00:23:49] <les> Hope it makes sense
[00:23:52] <jmkasunich> I'm supposed to be packing my truck this evening, and it's fscking SNOWING!!!
[00:24:00] <les> read it and tell me what you think
[00:24:26] <les> jmk it will freeze tonight and snow above 3000 feet
[00:24:33] <les> here
[00:24:35] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: Snowing? It's sunny and 71 here.
[00:24:41] <les> pretty unusual
[00:24:41] <jmkasunich> we have an inch already, and expecting 3-5
[00:24:56] <Jymmm> * Jymmm email's MotherNature@Earth.org and request is stop snowing till jmkasunich finishes loading the truck.
[00:24:57] <les> 1-3 above 3000 here
[00:25:13] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: it will probably bounce
[00:25:18] <jmkasunich> she has serious spam filters
[00:25:49] <Phydbleep> Of course sunny and 70 means that we will probably be ass deep in snow tomorrow. :)
[00:25:56] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : Actually, just got an auto-responder back... Will respond to your request come Summer time.
[00:26:03] <jmkasunich> lol
[00:26:26] <Jymmm> This kinda look interesting --> http://www.embeddedtronics.com/microstep.html
[00:26:30] <jmkasunich> can't believe it... eariler this week it was almost 80, sunny and beautiful
[00:26:38] <les> same here
[00:26:43] <les> low 80s
[00:26:46] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep lives in New Mexico where if you don't like the weather you can wait 5 minutes or leave.
[00:27:01] <jmkasunich> les: you email sounds reasonable
[00:27:11] <les> ok thanks
[00:27:12] <jmkasunich> s/you/your
[00:27:25] <les> It is my best understanding of how it works
[00:27:42] <jmkasunich> yours is probably better than mine
[00:27:56] <jmkasunich> when it comes to the TP, I just copied EMC1 for EMC2.
[00:28:07] <les> i.e. the cubic subinterpolator doesn't really do much of anything.
[00:28:13] <jmkasunich> in time I want to rip it out and do something better, but...
[00:29:29] <les> Well I will beat up anything you guys do up there on a real high speed machine with Paul's help
[00:30:03] <les> at least servo stuff
[00:30:59] <jmkasunich> well, gotta go and load stuff up
[00:31:01] <les> The main thing we want to do is completely debug segmentqueue
[00:31:11] <les> ok john go load in the snow
[00:31:15] <jmkasunich> (was just hoping to talk to Imperator or other folks heading to fest)
[00:33:08] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wanders off to get wood..
[00:33:30] <Phydbleep> Hmm... Maybe I should have said 2x4's instead..
[00:33:55] <les> thought you were building a fire
[00:34:06] <les> I ought to...it's 43 now
[00:34:14] <les> and windy
[00:34:31] <Jymmm> No comments from any of you on that driver?
[00:34:50] <les> who me?
[00:34:57] <Jymmm> anyone
[00:35:29] <Jymmm> (btw, PIC's can be reprogramed, right?)
[00:35:44] <les> heh yeah
[00:35:53] <les> read back but did not see
[00:36:01] <les> have oldtimers I think
[00:36:07] <Jymmm> les this http://www.embeddedtronics.com/microstep.html
[00:36:30] <Phydbleep> Yeah, These are all flash parts I'm using.. With external fram for data storage.
[00:37:32] <les> Looks ok I guesss
[00:37:39] <les> for very small machines
[00:37:49] <Jymmm> les why's that?
[00:38:04] <les> just the ratings
[00:38:35] <les> Big and small machines might have different meanings for us
[00:38:36] <Jymmm> les - well it's something like that or like xylotex
[00:39:26] <les> well it is enough for a sherline or something
[00:39:33] <les> not for a bridgeport
[00:39:39] <Jymmm> les I was looking at this, then robin_sz pointed out that it doens't do microstepping http://www.pilotltd.net/cnc.htm
[00:39:46] <les> marginal for a mill drill
[00:40:12] <Jymmm> les It'll be used on somethign you can carry in your hands =)
[00:40:19] <les> you need microstepping for sure.
[00:40:50] <Jymmm> I dont have any, but PIC programmers are cheap iirc
[00:41:01] <les> yes
[00:41:07] <Jymmm> I got an ATMEL STK300
[00:41:16] <Jymmm> but thats about it
[00:41:24] <les> I am buying some of those shumatec dros that use them I guess
[00:41:47] <les> waiting because mousr has some of the parts back ordered
[00:42:33] <les> I am putting dros on a bunch of machines
[00:42:39] <les> even woodworking
[00:42:48] <les> table saw, planer, etc
[00:43:16] <Jymmm> How do you do ISP on a PIC?
[00:43:23] <les> now that they are dirt cheap
[00:43:28] <Jymmm> (just being nosey here)
[00:43:46] <les> ISP?
[00:43:55] <Jymmm> in system programming
[00:44:38] <les> well in this case I just download a doze program and run it rs 485 I think
[00:44:44] <les> let me get a link
[00:44:59] <Jymmm> So most PICs permit this?
[00:45:39] <les> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShumaTech/
[00:48:08] <Jymmm> do most drivers have a BRAKE circuit in them?
[00:49:34] <anonimasu> hm..
[00:51:28] <les> most use dynamic braking
[00:52:14] <les> When my machine brakes it returns the kinetic energy to the power supply cap
[00:52:51] <les> anon you are up late!
[00:53:52] <anonimasu> les: yep
[00:54:51] <les> gosh must be 0300 or something there?
[00:55:14] <les> that is not up late...it's up early!
[00:57:45] <les> jymmm 1/2 MV^2=1/2C(V+Vrise)^2
[00:57:57] <les> roughly
[00:58:31] <les> Vrise is about 5 volts for me now
[00:58:46] <les> if segmentqueue is fixed it will be MUCH more
[00:58:55] <anonimasu> it's 02:59
[00:58:56] <anonimasu> ;)
[00:59:10] <les> yup thought so
[00:59:19] <les> ok you are just an early riser
[00:59:28] <les> heh
[00:59:29] <Jymmm> les whats that for now?
[00:59:40] <les> huh?
[01:00:45] <Jymmm> les that's what I say... huh?
[01:00:55] <les> heh
[01:00:58] <Jymmm> les what was that?
[01:01:05] <Jymmm> les <les> jymmm 1/2 MV^2=1/2C(V+Vrise)^2
[01:01:11] <les> oh.
[01:01:21] <les> left term is kinetic energy
[01:01:21] <anonimasu> les: still havent gone to bed
[01:01:31] <Jymmm> les Ah, ok
[01:01:36] <les> right term is energy stored in a capacitor
[01:01:40] <anonimasu> :)
[01:02:12] <les> wow anon I can't do that kind of stuff anymore
[01:03:18] <anonimasu> les: oh, I'll sleep tomorrow instead
[01:03:24] <anonimasu> les: I am getting too old for doing it also
[01:03:24] <anonimasu> :)
[01:03:50] <les> heh yeah I used to do all night parties or work
[01:04:16] <les> And I worked the night shift for a couple years
[01:04:46] <anonimasu> horrid :)
[01:05:23] <les> I was a manufacturing process engineer for an IC wafer fab line long ago on the night shift
[01:05:51] <les> workers would often fall asleep
[01:06:11] <dmess> not on our night shifts... ; )
[01:06:25] <les> and guys and girls would do naughty stuff in empty offices
[01:07:07] <anonimasu> lol
[01:07:20] <les> I did that I guess
[01:07:25] <Phydbleep> Who did what in which empty orifice?
[01:07:31] <les> I was pretty young
[01:07:39] <les> and so were the girls
[01:08:08] <dmess> percs of the night shift
[01:08:22] <les> PHY...we did what girls and guys might be expected to do at 2 am in an empty building
[01:09:00] <anonimasu> work?
[01:09:11] <Jymmm> les orgy?
[01:09:21] <les> um...well...kinda?
[01:09:38] <les> ahhh it certainly was not work then
[01:09:44] <les> It kinda is now.
[01:09:49] <Jymmm> lol
[01:10:09] <Phydbleep> BTW.. Did you know that dyslexia can be fun? Driving down the street reading signs and see one on a mini-mall reading "Orifices for rent, Inquire within."
[01:10:29] <les> heh
[01:10:46] <Phydbleep> I had to pull over and park I was LMAO..
[01:11:38] <les> reminds me of last time I went down to u. of florida with my son (I went there)
[01:11:59] <les> we got a motel room and it turned out to be a cathouse
[01:12:46] <Jymmm> les starting his education right I see
[01:13:32] <les> well The entire University of Florida was pretty much a cathouse I guess...but no charge.
[01:13:40] <anonimasu> lol
[01:13:47] <Jymmm> lol
[01:13:52] <anonimasu> * anonimasu makes a mental note on where to apply
[01:14:02] <Jymmm> bet the Student Service Medical was open 24/7
[01:14:13] <les> I um...didn't get out of the place single though.
[01:14:36] <Jymmm> les Repeat after me... I DONT, I DONT I DONT
[01:14:52] <les> i did i did i did
[01:15:16] <Jymmm> twice!
[01:15:20] <anonimasu> heh
[01:15:30] <anonimasu> well, that's not really a bad thing or is it?
[01:15:56] <les> oh I went back to school in my mid 20's after a bit of a break to finish my engineering degree
[01:16:06] <les> those 19 year old girls...
[01:16:12] <les> what can I say?
[01:16:27] <anonimasu> I bet a uni is a good place to meet somone..
[01:16:33] <les> oh yes.
[01:16:40] <anonimasu> girls without brains are the worst thing there is..
[01:16:57] <les> I know.
[01:17:00] <les> haha
[01:19:28] <les> Too bad I don't have a date...I would be at the tiger drive in right now
[01:19:40] <les> no dates...because no girls
[01:19:44] <les> well under 80
[01:19:59] <Jymmm> les what about that one girl thats sweet on ya?
[01:20:09] <Jymmm> and you pick em up truck
[01:21:01] <les> oh that girl at the food mart?
[01:21:04] <les> nah
[01:21:14] <Jymmm> what, shes 82 or something?
[01:21:40] <les> no...just not my type
[01:21:45] <les> heh
[01:22:11] <les> http://www.tigerdrivein.com/
[01:22:21] <les> I would like to go though...
[01:22:32] <Jymmm> they still have those?
[01:23:30] <les> not many
[01:23:59] <les> A relative of mine reopened an old one here
[01:23:59] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[01:24:39] <Jymmm> les You're in GA? I thought OH for some reason
[01:25:12] <les> yeah ga but right at the north carolina border near the smokey mountains
[01:26:04] <les> The highest terrain east of the mississippi is around here
[01:26:11] <les> just under 7000 ft
[01:28:43] <les> just checked the weather station on the highest peak but it is down due to a lightning strike they say
[01:29:02] <les> should be about 20 degrees there tonight
[01:29:19] <les> kinda cold for almost may
[01:29:59] <les> but...
[01:30:12] <les> I am from chicago...so not so bad
[01:30:49] <les> JMK is in ohio and it is snowing a lot there now
[01:31:41] <les> surely, surely anon has fallen asleep now and his head is on the keyboard
[01:35:48] <anonimasu> no way :)
[01:37:08] <les> heh
[01:37:29] <les> you know this is VERY unusual weather we are having
[01:37:35] <Jymmm> anonimasu WAKE UP AND GO BACK TO SLEEP!
[01:37:39] <les> it will kill many crops
[01:37:43] <les> http://www.srh.noaa.gov/productview.php?pil=GSPAFDGSP
[01:39:20] <les> 40 knot wind at 850 mb...I am at about that pressure altitude here
[01:39:23] <les> yikes
[01:39:55] <les> That's a chill factor of about 0f
[01:40:07] <les> and almost may!
[01:41:34] <les> this is incredible.
[01:43:30] <les> anon that is about 60 km/hr wind at -1c
[01:43:33] <les> nasty
[01:47:55] <les> well I am going to have a snack and hit the sack I think
[01:48:19] <les> later!
[01:48:36] <Jymmm> hasta les
[02:02:33] <anonimasu> *yawns*
[02:02:35] <anonimasu> night everyone
[08:58:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep abuses Postscript with a rudely shaped turnip.
[10:41:17] <Jymmm> What is a MT2 taper? Or I guess I should ask, what do I want to know about it
[10:43:28] <Jymmm> I can't find a comparison list =(
[11:02:11] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: MT2 == Morse Taper #2
[11:02:33] <Jymmm> no drawbar though, correct?
[11:02:37] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is still abusing Postscript with a rudely shaped turnip.
[11:03:07] <Phydbleep> Drawbar? Lock in bolt?
[11:03:22] <Jymmm> yeah, whatever.
[11:03:39] <Jymmm> like I said, what do I want to know about it.
[11:03:43] <Phydbleep> nope.. Whack it in, it's a friction fit.
[11:03:57] <Jymmm> ok, that's what I needed to know.
[11:04:13] <Phydbleep> Might want to paint it with some dye-chem and check the fit.
[11:05:16] <Jymmm> Nah, just saw a mini mill with a MT2 but wanted to be sure that was what it was.
[11:05:43] <Phydbleep> Depending on the spindle it may be a 70%+ contact or it may be two contact rings.
[11:06:10] <Phydbleep> MT2 == standard bits. :)
[11:06:23] <Phydbleep> How's that for an answer?
[11:06:53] <Jymmm> that one sucks
[11:07:04] <Jymmm> your 2nd one was much better =)
[11:07:31] <Jymmm> when you said friction, that actually answered all the questions I had
[11:07:54] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. it looked like you wanted a technical answer.. I gave you one. :)
[11:08:39] <Jymmm> not many place describe/compare collets/tapers
[11:08:59] <Jymmm> like "this is good for blah"
[11:09:02] <Phydbleep> Morse is a shallow cone with a flat tang.
[11:09:25] <Phydbleep> Take care of it and it'll last 50 years. :)
[11:10:55] <Phydbleep> Hell.. Longer than that.. My lathe is from 1937 and the tapers are fine, the ways are a little worn but not bad enough to affect what I want.
[11:11:26] <Jymmm> this was a mill using mt2
[11:12:16] <Phydbleep> As long as there's a hole in the spindle for a knock-out bar your fine.
[11:12:33] <Phydbleep> s/your/you're
[11:12:47] <Jymmm> yeah, but sounds cheesey
[11:13:00] <Phydbleep> Stuck MT is no fun. :[
[12:03:27] <anonimasu> morning
[12:05:35] <Phydbleep> Morning. :)
[12:05:46] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is still abusing Postscript with a rudely shaped turnip.
[12:06:47] <Phydbleep> Actually it's 'vi' and 'wordpad', but it's still blunt instruments.. :)
[12:13:23] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:31:20] <Phydbleep> Wow.. This is scary... This POS-tscript hack is actually working. :)
[12:32:20] <Phydbleep> I have a PWM track with a 720 count tach track inside that.
[12:33:25] <Phydbleep> All in a 2" dia circle. :)
[12:34:41] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[12:34:49] <anonimasu> I need caffeine
[12:35:01] <anonimasu> :)
[12:35:17] <anonimasu> hm, how small could you make it?
[12:35:21] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has had too much caffeine..
[12:35:28] <anonimasu> and could you etch that designon glass?
[12:36:39] <Phydbleep> Oh yeah.. Photo-etch and it's perfect.. I was looking at the elctroforming process les(I think) was talking about for doing them in nickle.
[12:36:45] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:36:49] <anonimasu> nice
[12:37:03] <anonimasu> if you find somone to make the screen for you that'd super precise
[12:37:30] <Phydbleep> But.. I'm going to print the test units on an inkjet because I'm a cheapskate. :)
[12:37:32] <anonimasu> a 1000$ investment if you can make 1000 encoders for under $2 each and have them very precise is a good deal..
[12:37:56] <anonimasu> or more encoders..
[12:38:31] <Phydbleep> I can get them in mylar real cheap.
[12:38:41] <anonimasu> heh
[12:39:08] <anonimasu> I have no idea what mylar is..
[12:39:25] <Phydbleep> http://www.thinmetalparts.com/Mylar_encoders.htm
[12:39:33] <Phydbleep> Thin plastic.
[12:39:57] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:39:58] <anonimasu> nice
[12:40:01] <Phydbleep> 25 million dpi res. :)
[12:40:58] <anonimasu> hm, I need encoders like that.
[12:41:15] <Phydbleep> I'll use 2500 dpi of it and have lots of precision. :)
[12:41:31] <anonimasu> hm..
[12:41:46] <anonimasu> 0.016mm per dot..
[12:41:52] <anonimasu> 25.4/2500
[12:42:15] <anonimasu> cant call that lots of precision really
[12:43:19] <anonimasu> 5mm/2000(1000 line differential encoders)
[12:43:50] <anonimasu> although I run that x5 at the drives since I cant generate enough pulses to push it along at the speed I want
[12:43:54] <Phydbleep> 4096 ppr.. 0.0898 degrees/step.. 10:1 geardown with most leadscrews gives 40960steps/inch.
[12:44:14] <anonimasu> and I run 4:1 for more torque..
[12:44:25] <anonimasu> yep..
[12:44:58] <Phydbleep> That 10:1 is just the leadscrew.. are you running a 4:1 on top of that?
[12:45:05] <anonimasu> err.. damn wrong way
[12:45:23] <anonimasu> it's motor 4:1 leadscrew
[12:45:49] <Phydbleep> so 16384 steps/inch for you with this..
[12:46:30] <Phydbleep> 0.000061. :)
[12:46:41] <anonimasu> yep..
[12:46:54] <Phydbleep> That's not precise enough for you?
[12:47:51] <Phydbleep> Wow.. That would feed at 90 ipm with these..
[12:48:15] <anonimasu> hm.. 2.2m/min
[12:48:35] <anonimasu> the precision isnt the trouble :)
[12:48:36] <anonimasu> the speed is
[12:48:55] <Phydbleep> 300+ ipm?
[12:49:21] <anonimasu> that's more like it ;)
[12:49:38] <Phydbleep> 75mm encoders..
[12:49:39] <anonimasu> atleast that's the speed I crave for.. but my machine wont make it at that speed ever
[12:50:13] <anonimasu> the encoders I have now :)
[12:50:38] <Phydbleep> 90 ipm is full control.. It will traverse at whatever speed the drive units will take.
[12:51:08] <anonimasu> http://www.galilmc.com/products/optima/dmc1800.html
[12:51:10] <anonimasu> *sighs*
[12:51:23] <anonimasu> one of thoose 5 axis cards ;)
[12:52:15] <anonimasu> but a 3 axis drive are 795$ + the card
[12:52:20] <anonimasu> err 4 axis
[12:52:23] <Phydbleep> They like to think those are soid gold don't they. :)
[12:52:43] <anonimasu> galil is good :
[12:52:44] <anonimasu> :)
[12:53:26] <anonimasu> I wonder if you could use that card with emc somehow
[12:54:22] <anonimasu> but well a vital is cheaper, although a dumb card
[12:55:39] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is building a smart-box.
[13:00:44] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[13:01:32] <anonimasu> I hope it'll work :)
[13:01:54] <Phydbleep> WooHoo!... PWM, Tach and Sync all on one wheel!
[13:01:59] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep got it..
[13:02:25] <Phydbleep> Now to save it before I fsck up and lose it.
[13:02:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[13:03:45] <Phydbleep> Got it.. Two copies even. :)
[13:06:36] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Want to see it?
[13:07:03] <anonimasu> sure
[13:07:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is going to run off and fall over before the meeting gets going..
[13:07:25] <anonimasu> AMP-19540 4-axis drive for four brush or brushless motors up to 500 watts $795 / $495
[13:07:26] <Phydbleep> pdf OK?
[13:07:28] <anonimasu> sure
[13:08:37] <anonimasu> hm, no 0-10v in on thoose :/
[13:09:27] <Phydbleep> pdf xfer lost some detail, but you'll get the idea.
[13:09:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:10:46] <Phydbleep> Grab that.
[13:12:10] <Phydbleep> Not bad for hand hacked .ps.. :)
[13:13:30] <Phydbleep> Especially as I had to learn it as I went.
[13:14:56] <anonimasu> you should generate a SVG out of it..
[13:15:02] <Phydbleep> svg?
[13:15:08] <anonimasu> scalable vector graphics..
[13:15:18] <anonimasu> scales from 0,001 to infinity..
[13:15:42] <Phydbleep> Ahh.. i was going to generate a app tha would take the data and spit wheels too.
[13:15:49] <anonimasu> :)
[13:15:52] <anonimasu> http://www.adobe.com/svg/
[13:16:01] <anonimasu> same tech as the icons in OSX..
[13:16:05] <anonimasu> or beos..
[13:16:14] <anonimasu> very neat
[13:16:42] <anonimasu> The encoder looks fine
[13:17:29] <Phydbleep> Thank you. :)
[13:18:46] <anonimasu> I'll be back later going to find the fuel pump on my car
[13:18:52] <Phydbleep> Well, I'm off to fall over because i'm seeing little vector lines everywhere..
[13:19:25] <Phydbleep> G'nite, G'morning, Good grief it's 0720.. :\
[13:19:46] <anonimasu> night
[14:06:54] <dave-e> les...you awake?
[14:08:46] <trp> Good morning all.
[14:08:55] <dave-e> it is at that
[14:09:06] <trp> I am back with more problems
[14:09:33] <trp> and needing some help with my limit switches "again"
[14:09:50] <trp> this is to do with the ini file
[14:10:21] <les> hi
[14:10:30] <les> still there dave?
[14:11:00] <dave-e> now I am
[14:11:08] <les> what's up
[14:11:26] <dave-e> do you use tool length....g43 g49?
[14:11:45] <les> yes I certainly do
[14:11:52] <dave-e> hmmmm
[14:12:11] <les> problems?
[14:12:25] <dave-e> if I do....g43 Hn then the tool length shows in Z immediately
[14:12:42] <trp> it should
[14:12:48] <les> yeah
[14:13:00] <dave-e> however if I then do a g1 xn yn the Z takes off for the basement.
[14:13:13] <trp> but in an opposite direction of your intended pos.
[14:13:23] <dave-e> any move that does not have an explicit move in z does this
[14:13:30] <trp> are you using a home
[14:13:34] <dave-e> yes
[14:13:36] <les> yes I think that's right
[14:13:48] <les> I have buried a tool or two meself
[14:14:05] <dave-e> you mean Z is all of a sudden not modal?
[14:14:32] <dave-e> I think that violates rs274ngc
[14:14:47] <les> I would say it's modal
[14:15:03] <les> you have a copy of my turkey call prod code right?
[14:15:13] <les> that shows g43 very well
[14:15:19] <dave-e> no I don't
[14:15:31] <les> let me dcc it...have a look
[14:16:03] <trp> touch your part and call it zero, go back home and that will be your z height offset
[14:16:42] <trp> when you call up the g43 hn then you tell z to go to zero and it will be at the top of the part
[14:18:25] <dave-e> as I understand it modal says that a value that is set stays that way until set to something else
[14:18:27] <trp> when you call out the g43 Hn from the home pos. then you should see a positive # in the pos screen that matches the # in the tool height offset. If z down is z-
[14:18:56] <dave-e> yep that works.
[14:19:28] <trp> when you go to zo does it go to the top of the part
[14:19:42] <dave-e> however you cannot command z0 ... it cannot be smaller that the z offset
[14:19:54] <les> Note I touch off in the program with zero offset using g92 in mdi
[14:19:57] <trp> g1 f10 z0
[14:20:08] <les> then first tool is .75 higher
[14:20:36] <les> after the g43 in the program it stays that way until a g49
[14:21:06] <les> btw what about your home switch prob trp?
[14:21:13] <trp> then any -z will be in your part and any +z will be above
[14:21:27] <dave-e> ...I measured all of my tools with the height gage
[14:21:42] <dave-e> then entered those values into the tool table.
[14:21:48] <les> right
[14:22:12] <dave-e> those of course reflect the tool tip when z is in home position
[14:22:25] <les> my standard tool holderis zero offset
[14:22:38] <les> I use that as a datum for the others
[14:23:06] <les> I measure them in a dial thickness gage table
[14:23:48] <dave-e> which should work... I could subtract my shortest tool length from all but that doesn't alter the problem of having to set an explicit z for any move
[14:24:22] <les> ?? I don't...it just takes care of it
[14:24:57] <dave-e> brb
[14:24:58] <les> I touched off with the standard tool...and the program starts with a tool 0.75 shorter
[14:25:11] <les> so -.75 is the offset in the var file
[14:25:27] <trp> les, do you use a g55... with a z offset
[14:25:53] <les> and z ends up going .75 lower than before for a z move
[14:26:28] <les> trp I gennerally do not use a z for g55
[14:26:31] <les> I could
[14:26:37] <les> just a safety thing
[14:27:04] <les> Do not like to mix g92 and g55 z
[14:27:14] <les> gets confusing that's all
[14:27:38] <dave-e> I'm using 2.18 with a 25 Mar cvs
[14:27:55] <trp> thats right I was just wondering how you get a tool with zero offset for a datum
[14:28:32] <les> well I use my tool holders...and just pick a particular one to touch off on
[14:28:53] <trp> ok
[14:29:06] <les> most of the tools I have are constant length
[14:29:28] <les> for example a .02 end mill and a .5 are the same length
[14:29:35] <les> but a few are not
[14:29:41] <trp> thats makes setup easier
[14:29:55] <les> yes it does
[14:31:56] <trp> how about the limits
[14:31:59] <trp> I am told to use bridgportio for this setup and I dont see how to assign my pins fort the limit and home.
[14:32:18] <les> parport stepper?
[14:32:28] <trp> yes
[14:32:49] <les> I use dio on the stg servo card but it should be similar
[14:33:07] <les> all limit switches are normally closed on mine
[14:33:23] <les> safer that way
[14:33:27] <les> brb phone
[14:33:56] <trp> I have a 24 volt supply out to prox switch which when activated pull in a relay and send 5 volt to pin 12 on the parpart
[14:34:03] <trp> what is brb phone
[14:34:33] <dave-e> trp...I don't think there are enough pins on the pport to do what you want.
[14:35:37] <trp> Yes, Smithy Mill is set up this exact way and I dont have a copy of the .ini. Ray was supposed to get me help but went to DC before I could catch him last night
[14:35:44] <dave-e> at this point I'm on a stg and there I have all the inputs I need for axis home, fault, and + and - limits
[14:36:35] <dave-e> I think they use all the homes on one pin
[14:36:54] <trp> I am using the limits as a home also.
[14:37:26] <trp> when homing the limits are deactivated til the cycle is finished.
[14:37:58] <dave-e> and what is not working about this?
[14:38:18] <trp> I just dont know how to set up the .ini file to make it happen.
[14:38:46] <trp> right now the relay trips and sends to signal to the # 12 pin and nothing happens
[14:39:19] <trp> need coffee! back in a flash
[14:39:25] <dave-e> I think all you need is the state ( 0 or 1 ) set correctly in the ini file for each axis
[14:41:08] <trp> mmmmmmmm. coffee. I tried that and it starts up in e-stop when changed. no way to get it out of e-stop either when I change the polarity
[14:41:50] <les> hmm
[14:41:56] <trp> The pin doesn't seem to be assigned to anything yet
[14:42:12] <trp> #12, 13 or 15 that is
[14:42:24] <les> On som estepper production testers here I homed by driving it into a limit
[14:42:51] <les> on stepper emc I am not sure
[14:42:54] <trp> been there, done that.
[14:43:12] <les> not sure about how or whether switch state change latches
[14:43:29] <trp> should work the same with stepper or servo
[14:44:11] <les> yeah...but I use index pulse...so home switch doe some different things
[14:44:29] <les> it reverses direction and enables index detection
[14:44:37] <trp> limits wont work either
[14:44:37] <les> and it does latch
[14:44:49] <les> hmm
[14:45:07] <les> using +5 on all of these?
[14:45:53] <trp> paul_c said to hook up to 12, 13 "or" 15. thats what I did to 12
[14:46:06] <dave-e> are the pport pins assigned in the ini?
[14:46:16] <les> ok
[14:46:34] <trp> I dont see an assignment for limits in the ini file
[14:46:45] <trp> or home for that matter
[14:47:10] <dave-e> which makes me think they are hard coded
[14:47:23] <trp> I would think so.
[14:47:39] <trp> right now I am using minimilltask
[14:47:58] <trp> should I try bridgeporttask
[14:48:18] <dave-e> can't hurt
[14:48:55] <les> yes
[14:48:58] <trp> according to ray I am supposed to change something else also but he is unavailable for comment at the moment
[14:49:01] <dave-e> I rather expected Ray and Matt to be on this morning
[14:49:26] <dave-e> send Ray and email...I'm sure he is checking his mail
[14:49:31] <les> funny ieee 1284 lists +7 max input voltage on pp
[14:50:01] <trp> already did that but was hoping to get some work done this morning
[14:50:18] <trp> Im in a hurry and dont know why
[14:50:49] <dave-e> well it is always nice to get a machine running
[14:50:55] <trp> dave-e, did you get the g43 worked out
[14:51:22] <dave-e> I looked at the code from Les...and he doesn't have the problem I do
[14:51:43] <dave-e> he can make moves that work the way I think they should
[14:51:49] <trp> what again is your problelm
[14:52:13] <trp> and are you at your machine
[14:52:48] <dave-e> that unless I specify a Z value with any move the Z heads for min Z ... max neg value
[14:52:55] <dave-e> not at machine
[14:53:32] <trp> when you are home does your z read 0
[14:53:45] <dave-e> yes
[14:54:01] <dave-e> but before I do a g43
[14:54:17] <dave-e> after g43 it reads the tool z offset
[14:54:31] <trp> when you go to touch off take that # and put it in the Hn position for that tool
[14:55:11] <trp> go back back home and call out the g43 Hn and see what it reads.
[14:55:29] <dave-e> I don't do it that way...I just use a height gage for tool length
[14:55:46] <trp> same thing.
[14:55:50] <dave-e> should be
[14:56:23] <dave-e> so if I do a g43 H6 then I get 2.43" on z
[14:56:38] <trp> yes
[14:56:38] <dave-e> g43 H3 get me 6.45"
[14:56:57] <dave-e> my part top is at -7.3"
[14:57:23] <trp> Then the offset is wrong
[14:57:38] <dave-e> which offset
[14:57:47] <trp> the Hn
[14:58:00] <trp> for that tool
[14:58:09] <dave-e> only if one assumes that top of part is tool length
[14:58:26] <trp> top of the part is "0" usually
[14:59:09] <trp> do you have emc running on a box in front of you
[14:59:38] <dave-e> that still doesn't solve the problem of being able to move without a declared Z value
[14:59:52] <dave-e> no emc on this box...just a desktop machine
[15:00:03] <trp> home is the declared z value.
[15:00:27] <trp> the offset is the difference between home and top of part
[15:00:36] <trp> Try this when you get a chance
[15:00:53] <trp> home all axises
[15:01:10] <trp> increment z down 1"
[15:01:48] <trp> go to that tool and put in the 1" into the tool you would call out with the g43 Hn
[15:02:06] <trp> go to MDI and call out g43 Hn
[15:02:40] <trp> Increment down 1". Your z should read zero at that point
[15:03:35] <trp> wait you should go back to home before calling out the g43 Hn
[15:03:48] <dave-e> that make sense and that will work.
[15:04:03] <trp> if you dont the z will read 0 where you are setting
[15:04:11] <dave-e> I'm just bitching because to make things work I have to ...
[15:04:20] <dave-e> g43 h6
[15:04:37] <dave-e> so z is now 3.42 inches
[15:04:59] <trp> is that the # you have in the H6 pos
[15:05:15] <dave-e> now to move I do: G1 X 5 Y 0 Z 3.42 F20
[15:05:48] <trp> no you have to do a zo to get to the offset pos
[15:05:50] <dave-e> notice I didn't want z to move so I had to say so...otherwise it simple heads for the bed
[15:06:40] <trp> z moves without a commanded move
[15:06:47] <trp> is that right?
[15:07:07] <dave-e> that is what is happening and I don't think that is right
[15:07:18] <trp> no it is not
[15:08:20] <dave-e> since all the "experts" are at nist I'm going to try to contact them ....
[15:08:31] <trp> without commanding z to move it should not do anything. what happens when you go to zero
[15:08:59] <dave-e> I get a out of range error
[15:09:17] <trp> how much travel do you have in z
[15:09:20] <les> hmmm
[15:09:25] <dave-e> since 0 is not +2.43"
[15:09:29] <dave-e> 7.5"
[15:09:47] <les> mine does not actually move with JUST a g43
[15:10:05] <dave-e> true ... just changes the z offset
[15:10:06] <les> wonder if the code is broken
[15:10:13] <dave-e> I think so
[15:10:21] <trp> g43 wont move it.
[15:10:42] <dave-e> no just reflects the position of the tool tip
[15:10:47] <trp> if you give it just an x move what happens
[15:11:00] <dave-e> z moves neg also
[15:11:03] <roltek> why do you put in a 1" tool length after you home z0.0 . if your moving your tool down 1" it should z-1.0 for tool offset or at least that's how all the fanuc's work
[15:11:05] <les> just so I understand...when you issue a g43 in program or mdi things move?
[15:11:45] <dave-e> no ... no movement on g43
[15:11:50] <les> ok.
[15:12:15] <trp> what happens with just a y move
[15:12:39] <dave-e> I think any commanded movement causes z to move
[15:13:10] <trp> you should try each x seperately and Y seperately. that may narrow the problem
[15:13:11] <dave-e> unless one specifies current z to hold it in place
[15:13:22] <dave-e> I'll do that
[15:13:24] <les> for sure a neg offset value make the tool go LOWER
[15:13:32] <les> positive higher
[15:13:36] <dave-e> yep
[15:13:40] <les> ok
[15:14:04] <trp> looks like your problem is not the g43 you are doing that right
[15:14:16] <trp> and it seems to be working correctly.
[15:14:22] <dave-e> I think it is a bug
[15:14:55] <trp> axis motion seems to be the problem. your z is tied to your x and or y when you command a move
[15:15:15] <dave-e> and so few people use g43 that it doesn't show up until someone upgrades to the current cvs
[15:15:32] <les> my code is about a year old
[15:15:46] <dave-e> I'm going to go off and test some more...see ya later
[15:15:46] <trp> I am using rc46
[15:15:48] <les> I learned quickly to not use the latest source!
[15:16:08] <les> ok
[15:16:21] <les> trp so you are using 12v in on the epp?
[15:16:32] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[15:16:32] <dave-e> I needed spindle otherwise I would still be back on 2.18 as released
[15:16:46] <trp> what is epp
[15:16:50] <dave-e> pp
[15:16:54] <les> parport
[15:16:54] <dave-e> pport
[15:17:10] <trp> no i am using 5v
[15:17:15] <les> ok
[15:17:21] <les> pull up resistor?
[15:17:38] <trp> I have a 24v supply to operate the limits which pull the relay for the 5v
[15:18:09] <les> does the state change show up on ioshow?
[15:18:10] <trp> resister to make sure I am getting 5v only
[15:18:32] <trp> I havent tried to look at that.
[15:18:44] <les> might be a thing to check
[15:18:57] <les> it's on the gui somewhere up top
[15:19:25] <trp> I have to go out an see a few thing to get more info. I'll be back when I try the bridgeportio and look at the show
[15:19:33] <les> ok cool
[15:19:51] <trp> that may help you guys help me a little more. May even solve it. We'll see
[15:20:07] <trp> more coffee and off to work. see ya
[15:20:08] <les> I am going to do something silly and rescrape one of my mills
[15:20:17] <trp> have fun
[15:20:20] <les> must make some quick dovetail templates
[15:36:14] <roltek> has any worked on electronic gearing for emc
[15:37:42] <les> it is being worked on this week I think
[15:37:51] <les> at the codefest
[15:38:33] <roltek> can emc have more than one spindle
[15:38:56] <les> hmm don't know
[15:39:57] <les> I'm sure it could be done if you have the analog outs
[15:40:40] <les> and digital
[15:41:18] <roltek> how does emc now between a spindle and an axis i thought the last axis was always spindle
[15:41:40] <les> That was my impression
[15:41:52] <les> I do not have that set up
[15:42:29] <les> I just don't let the computer turn on the spindle right now
[15:42:46] <les> just for safey
[15:43:32] <les> but I might do it later
[15:44:01] <les> a fault to e-stop would be needed if the spindle stopped or stalled
[15:44:04] <roltek> is this something that they will be workin on next week is a better define of spindle
[15:44:07] <les> hard wired
[15:44:22] <les> yes I think they will be
[15:44:35] <les> and xxyz
[15:44:56] <roltek> what is xxyz
[15:44:58] <les> are those on the wiki list?
[15:47:07] <les> hmm I checked...they are not
[15:47:21] <les> put them in code base queries if you wish
[15:47:37] <les> xxyz= electronic gearing
[15:48:40] <les> tandem axes
[15:48:48] <les> 1:1 master slave
[15:49:34] <les> bbiaw
[15:50:47] <roltek> i thought electronic gearing was ratio between master and slaved axis or spindle with different master's and slaves to be called out
[16:18:55] <acemi> is there a locking problem in python-Axis in some system? my Axis window is locking sometimes
[17:38:23] <anonimasu> hello
[18:37:35] <dmess> Hi all
[19:01:46] <dave-e> I'm back
[19:08:17] <Bowika> does anybody know how to export a draw to g code in Qcad?
[19:08:44] <dave-e> if les is logging...then... Z moves after a g43 Hn if X, Y , X&Y.
[19:09:16] <Bowika> ?
[19:10:40] <dave-e> bowika....you may be forced to export as dxf the use a converter
[19:10:47] <dave-e> then use
[19:11:31] <Bowika> can you recommend such a converter?
[19:13:00] <dave-e> no...do a web search...there are several free or almost free one out there
[19:14:13] <dave-e> a lot of people just use brute force and hand code
[19:15:55] <dave-e> gone
[20:07:32] <damess> hi all
[20:07:55] <Jymmm> hola
[21:03:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep laughs maniacally..
[21:03:54] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm slaps a straight jacket on Phydbleep
[21:03:55] <Phydbleep> Buwahahaha!.. It's Postscript!
[21:04:11] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm gives Phydbleep his medication
[21:04:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a rudely shaped turnip and is not afraid to use it..
[21:04:27] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep abuses Jymmmm with a rudely shaped turnip.
[21:04:52] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm takes turnip and places it somewhere on Phydbleep where the sun dont shine
[21:04:56] <Phydbleep> PWM, Tach, and Sync all on the same disk. :)
[21:05:11] <Jymmmm> now, what the hell you talking about?
[21:05:12] <Jymmmm> =)
[21:05:38] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[21:05:51] <Phydbleep> Grab that and see.
[21:05:59] <Jymmm> grab what?
[21:06:02] <Phydbleep> pdf file. :)
[21:06:21] <Jymmm> url
[21:06:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has flinging it via dcc..
[21:06:46] <Phydbleep> was
[21:06:52] <Jymmm> cant dcc
[21:07:33] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:07:44] <Jymmm> * Jymmm dog piles robin_sz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[21:07:45] <Phydbleep> Yoop?
[21:07:56] <Jymmm> robin_sz tag, your it!
[21:08:02] <robin_sz> sigh
[21:08:20] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: btw, I dont get what you mean with PWM?
[21:08:22] <Jymmm> sigh? No sigh!
[21:08:24] <anonimasu> err PWM on the encoder..
[21:08:53] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes robin_sz with a redhead
[21:08:59] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Yeah, Positioning track is symmetric pwm.
[21:09:15] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: explain what it does..
[21:09:31] <robin_sz> so .. the ADC and DAC didn't really work on my G200X ...
[21:09:47] <Jymmm> robin_sz bug?
[21:09:49] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Bummer! Warranty?
[21:09:53] <robin_sz> primarily because Mariss soldered the DAC where the ADC should be etc
[21:10:03] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: he's been modding it too much ;)
[21:10:21] <Phydbleep> Ouch.. Assembler head-space..
[21:11:17] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: yeah, I should ask for my money back ;)
[21:11:31] <Jymmm> robin_sz you didnt pay for it, did ya?
[21:11:33] <Phydbleep> Who can pass a pdf file to Jymmm ?
[21:11:45] <robin_sz> Jymmm: sssshhh!
[21:11:46] <Jymmm> Phydbleep dont worry about it.
[21:11:57] <Jymmm> robin_sz DEMAND a refund! =)
[21:12:04] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: ?
[21:12:13] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: ?
[21:12:18] <robin_sz> Jymmm: too late, I just lifted the chips ..
[21:12:28] <Jymmm> robin_sz smt?
[21:12:31] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:12:32] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: I do not get what you are doing with the PWM track on your encoder could you explain that a bit more?
[21:12:34] <Jymmm> ah
[21:12:56] <robin_sz> they are only 14 pin, so easy to lift
[21:13:06] <Phydbleep> It's an 8 bit encoded symmetric pwm track and the encoder reads it and interpolates the position to output 4069 (12 bit) ppr.
[21:13:15] <Jymmm> robin_sz cool. lucky you =)
[21:13:17] <Phydbleep> 4096
[21:13:33] <anonimasu> hm, position..
[21:13:39] <robin_sz> when you get to BIG chips, and you dont have the exact right desolder tool, its safer to use a razor blade to cut all the legs off
[21:14:07] <robin_sz> then just mop the legs up with an iron when you tipped the dead package out.
[21:14:32] <robin_sz> right .. I must go solder them back in .. heres hoping it works!
[21:14:33] <Jymmm> Ok, what combination of driver stepper in respect to uni/bi is there? I mean if I have a uni driver, can it be made to run uni/bi steppers? or the other way around? (excluding the 4wire)
[21:14:39] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: tHEN GET EYE-STRAIN SOLDERING THE NEW ONE ON. :)
[21:14:46] <robin_sz> nah,
[21:14:55] <robin_sz> smd is easy ...
[21:15:11] <robin_sz> lets see .. 14 pin chip .. by hand ..
[21:15:12] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep changes the batteries in the @#^@#$%^@# keyboard..
[21:15:18] <robin_sz> soldering time .. .2 seconds
[21:15:24] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers @ Phydbleep
[21:15:39] <Phydbleep> Takes longer than that to find it after you sneeze. :)
[21:15:49] <robin_sz> you dont solder them pin-by-pin you know
[21:15:59] <Jymmm> Got SolderWick?
[21:16:20] <robin_sz> yeah, for pad clean up
[21:16:37] <Jymmm> Yeah, thats what Yaesu told me todo it
[21:16:56] <robin_sz> soldering them down I just put a big blob of solder on and drag a wave down the pins
[21:17:27] <robin_sz> surface tension leaves em individually done
[21:18:09] <robin_sz> anyway .. later
[21:18:31] <Jymmm> you leaving already?!
[21:18:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep nails robin_sz's foot to the floor..
[21:18:55] <Phydbleep> Nope.. He's not. :)
[21:20:14] <Jymmm> heh
[21:20:39] <Jymmm> Damn... now robin_sz is gonna have a JeeeeeBus complex
[21:21:11] <Phydbleep> So.. Does anyone think that 25 million DPI is not enough res to print an encoder?
[21:21:37] <Jymmm> Yes
[21:21:51] <Phydbleep> http://www.thinmetalparts.com/Mylar_encoders.htm
[21:22:52] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: What have you been told about violating the trades description act?
[21:23:15] <Jymmm> huh?
[21:24:02] <Phydbleep> TDA Britains answer to consumer fraud laws.
[21:24:55] <Phydbleep> Remember what the judge said.. Neither one of us is allowed to "think".. :)
[21:26:30] <Phydbleep> So who wants to critique a encoder?
[21:42:46] <dmess> there have been photographed scaled encoder/resolvers around for yrs
[21:47:53] <Phydbleep> dmess: Yeah, Standard techniques, non-standard format. :)
[21:52:08] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: can you make the encoders smaller if you have them print them?
[21:52:22] <anonimasu> or are the limit the speed you can count at?
[22:01:21] <Phydbleep> the limit is 2000 degrees of rotation/second for this design.
[22:01:35] <Phydbleep> 360 rpm at the shaft for full control.
[22:02:02] <Jymmm> that's it? you better go back to the drawing board!
[22:02:34] <Jymmm> come back when you get it to 36Billion dpi resolution
[22:02:41] <Phydbleep> WTF do you want for <$10?
[22:02:46] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sends a wheelie-bin chasing Jymmm.
[22:03:11] <Jymmm> Oh, for $10, make it 36Trillion dpi resolution
[22:03:13] <Phydbleep> Bin! RECYCLE!
[22:04:35] <Jymmm> Phydbleep and this'll work with 1/4-20 threaded rod, right?
[22:05:47] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:05:47] <Phydbleep> This will work with any rotary motion.. Leadscews, spindles, etc..
[22:06:16] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: with that speed limit it's usless for spindles.. and stuff other then hobby machines going really slow..
[22:07:55] <anonimasu> I know it's $10..
[22:08:20] <anonimasu> but still..
[22:08:25] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: You've never seen my lathe... the spindle in it will get down to <45 rpm in backgear.
[22:10:41] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: heh
[22:11:01] <Phydbleep> Top speed on the spindles is <2k and I don't need to count every 0.088 degree output at that speed, just rpm/sync
[22:11:12] <anonimasu> well I am thinking positioning, as in servos..
[22:12:02] <Phydbleep> So am I.. 10 tpi leadscrew gives 40960 ppi or 0.00006"
[22:13:01] <Phydbleep> I think 6 millionths is close enough. :)
[22:13:14] <anonimasu> oh, but if that limits the speed of the motors to 300rpm..
[22:13:19] <anonimasu> err 360..
[22:15:28] <anonimasu> I dont see it as a good option, because of that..
[22:15:49] <anonimasu> I am thinking about commercial machines, and the speed they operate at..
[22:16:16] <Phydbleep> I've got the parts tracked down for a 10x speed/res model, but I still can't get a firm price for single lots.
[22:16:39] <anonimasu> I have the encoders I'll use until my servos die or I buy new ones..
[22:17:50] <anonimasu> the max output of the encoders I have are 100khz..
[22:17:57] <Phydbleep> This system is not dependent on these encoders, that's the whole idea.. Modular design. Use the encoders you have or make new ones.
[22:18:58] <Phydbleep> It would just take different firmware for quad or gray encoders.
[22:20:04] <anonimasu> I am going to buy a vital.
[22:20:08] <anonimasu> but I am trying to help you out :)
[22:20:47] <Phydbleep> 20 MHz of pic for every encoder and drive channel. 3 Mbit control bus between them, usb or firewire to tie to the pc.
[22:21:25] <Phydbleep> Thanks, I am noting grapes. :)
[22:21:31] <Phydbleep> gripes.
[22:21:40] <anonimasu> ?
[22:22:25] <Phydbleep> Slow motor speed under full control, etc.
[22:22:35] <anonimasu> that's a good thing..
[22:22:40] <anonimasu> with great resolution
[22:23:25] <anonimasu> but you need that with fast speeds aswell, that's the main point in using servos as I see it
[22:23:31] <anonimasu> speed & torque
[22:23:55] <anonimasu> the accuracy gain isnt that extreme compared to steppers..
[22:25:50] <Phydbleep> Yeah, This was basicly a retrofit to turn any brushmotor/encoder into a closed loop servo when I started...
[22:26:13] <anonimasu> that's the only reason I am talking about the speed..
[22:26:38] <Phydbleep> But i wanted one that could read position without moving the shaft on a power up.
[22:26:43] <anonimasu> if I could I'd push my machine along at 300 ipm ;)
[22:29:16] <robin_sz> wahey ...
[22:29:23] <robin_sz> ADCs and DACs working
[22:29:28] <robin_sz> well, 4 dacs
[22:29:34] <robin_sz> and 3 of the 4 ADCs
[22:29:53] <Phydbleep> Precision is more important to me than speed right now.. I can punch "GO", lock the door and go deal with the kid till the part is done. :)
[22:30:57] <Phydbleep> Plus, I want a hands-off system for pcb milling...
[22:31:27] <anonimasu> how many 100$ are you going to spend for that precision?
[22:31:34] <anonimasu> ballscrews..
[22:31:53] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does not want to stand there listening to Brrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz @ 140 db for > 0ms.
[22:32:22] <robin_sz> got an air spindle yet?
[22:32:27] <anonimasu> me?
[22:32:32] <robin_sz> nah
[22:32:34] <robin_sz> Phydbleep:
[22:32:35] <anonimasu> nah
[22:32:40] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: I'll buy a used machine to retrofit.
[22:32:50] <robin_sz> hes the pcb milling guy .. an air spindle would be good for him
[22:32:52] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: No air, pmdc. :)
[22:33:11] <robin_sz> is it quick enough?
[22:33:52] <Phydbleep> 1hp @ 6k rpm? 5:1 gearup for a 0.05 deep cut.
[22:34:09] <robin_sz> so 30K rpm?
[22:34:26] <Phydbleep> I'll go multi-pass if I have to for bus-bar stuff.
[22:34:36] <Phydbleep> Yeah, 30k
[22:34:54] <robin_sz> but 1hp is way more than you'll ever use on a tiny cutter
[22:35:31] <robin_sz> have a think about an air spindle ..
[22:35:37] <robin_sz> 90~120k rpm
[22:35:48] <Phydbleep> PWM control.. I'll back the power down,, The 1hp is so I can swing a 1/4" endmill in it too. :)
[22:36:23] <anonimasu> will you be milling alu?
[22:36:35] <anonimasu> and other stuff on it?
[22:36:52] <Phydbleep> Yeah, for small detail stuff.
[22:36:59] <robin_sz> when does the code fest begin
[22:37:00] <robin_sz> ??
[22:37:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thought it was already over or he would not have been flapping his keyboard.
[22:37:41] <robin_sz> heh
[22:38:20] <robin_sz> there was qiye a lot of work on the interp I saw ..
[22:38:21] <Phydbleep> 18:00 GMT is 12:00 here and I slept through it..
[22:38:45] <robin_sz> me goes to see if they slapped a GPL on it yet
[22:39:16] <anonimasu> :)
[22:39:18] <anonimasu> nice
[22:39:24] <anonimasu> anything on segmentqueue?
[22:39:48] <Phydbleep> seg-q is movement planner?
[22:39:56] <anonimasu> yep
[22:40:13] <robin_sz> not yet it seems
[22:40:17] <anonimasu> hm ok
[22:40:23] <anonimasu> I hope they do work on it
[22:42:17] <anonimasu> :)
[22:43:30] <robin_sz> well, the only commits I can see are on the interp
[22:43:33] <robin_sz> on emc1
[22:43:51] <robin_sz> so much for emc2 being the development, emc1 being stable/lockdown
[22:44:01] <anonimasu> :/
[22:45:00] <robin_sz> people are *never* going to work on or use emc2 if emc1 is still being atively worked on
[22:45:07] <robin_sz> ah well/
[22:46:08] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[22:47:04] <robin_sz> still ..
[22:47:18] <robin_sz> the interp mods will do very nicely for the G200x thanks ;)
[22:47:42] <Phydbleep> I'll be hacking at emc2 later. :)
[22:48:18] <robin_sz> who was doing the ISA servo card?
[22:48:21] <robin_sz> Imperrator?
[22:48:29] <anonimasu> yeah I think os
[22:48:30] <anonimasu> so
[22:52:28] <Phydbleep> ISA is dead.. :\
[22:52:52] <Phydbleep> PCI would be the way to go.
[22:54:01] <anonimasu> it's for the same reason you limit the speed of your encoders..
[22:54:09] <anonimasu> the cost of developement..
[22:54:21] <Phydbleep> That was why I was going dual lpt for prototyping. PCI card with dual lpt's is <$10 and buffers everything nicely.
[22:54:22] <anonimasu> ISA is easy & cheap.. PCI costs lots to develop apparently
[22:54:42] <anonimasu> I dont know why though
[22:55:18] <Phydbleep> 2 layer vs 4-6 layer boards..
[22:57:36] <Phydbleep> ISA is <20 MHz.. PCI is 33 MHz and up.. Lot's of little factors that really shouldn't make it that expensive, but do anyway.
[22:59:06] <anonimasu> hm, would doing PCI on a single layer board be impossible..
[22:59:13] <anonimasu> there's fpga cores for pci..
[22:59:14] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders what the max data-rate for a pci lpt is.. ~ 1 MHz for XT/AT standard ..
[22:59:50] <Phydbleep> PCI on a single layer == impossible.. Second layer is need for signa paths.
[23:00:41] <anonimasu> robin_sz: still there?
[23:00:44] <Phydbleep> signal
[23:01:48] <anonimasu> well wouldnt you reduce that with a fpga?
[23:03:19] <Phydbleep> Nope.. You need the seconlayer to get to the signals in the connector.. You could do a 2 layer stub with the connector and ribbon cable to a single layer daughterboard.
[23:04:47] <Phydbleep> It would have to be cabled like ATA-133 drive cables where every other line is ground for signal seperation though.
[23:14:51] <Phydbleep> Hmm.. Syba SB-PCI-2P 1.5 MByte/sec EPP/ECP X 2 = ~25MBit/sec.. Not bad for $9. :)
[23:49:57] <robin_sz> anonimasu: you called?
[23:50:37] <anonimasu> robin_sz: an nevermind
[23:50:41] <anonimasu> was about fpga:s
[23:50:48] <robin_sz> 'k
[23:50:53] <anonimasu> do you have a clue about the size of: http://www.blocket.se/view/4803220.htm?caller=nbl_s&l=0&c=1&city=0
[23:51:53] <robin_sz> ah yes
[23:52:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz tries to rememebr the name
[23:52:16] <anonimasu> I am considering buying it..
[23:52:27] <anonimasu> 1642$
[23:52:36] <robin_sz> $?
[23:52:45] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:52:47] <robin_sz> USD?
[23:52:49] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:53:10] <robin_sz> sounds quite expensive . its a "training" lathe ... from schools mainly
[23:53:21] <anonimasu> it's 11000sek
[23:53:29] <robin_sz> I think they see making something useful as a bonus,
[23:53:33] <robin_sz> and a rare event
[23:54:26] <anonimasu> hm
[23:54:36] <anonimasu> it's pretty cheap compared to non cnc lathes
[23:54:40] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:54:49] <robin_sz> Denford is it?
[23:54:52] <robin_sz> Orac?
[23:55:00] <robin_sz> Denford Orac rings a bell
[23:55:09] <anonimasu> hm, nope..
[23:56:21] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:56:26] <robin_sz> http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/cat_leaf.php?id=148
[23:56:29] <anonimasu> I wonder if I should mail and ask for the size
[23:56:33] <robin_sz> thats an Orac ...
[23:56:56] <anonimasu> ah ok
[23:57:24] <robin_sz> similar sort of thing
[23:57:56] <anonimasu> hm, it looks smaller though
[23:59:01] <robin_sz> it would be a very safe machine to use
[23:59:17] <anonimasu> I need a good lathe..
[23:59:19] <anonimasu> that's cnc:ed
[23:59:32] <anonimasu> my current lathe is so very bad..
[23:59:32] <robin_sz> if ever it gets out of control, you could just reach in and stop it