#emc | Logs for 2005-04-20

[00:00:05] <Phydbleep> use 3 for 3 phase.
[00:00:09] <les> They are in a big pile. I am open to suggestions for using them for something
[00:00:22] <jmkasunich> half-bridge then (aka totem pole)
[00:00:27] <les> ok
[00:00:42] <jmkasunich> is cherry good for smoking things?
[00:01:10] <jmkasunich> (compress them into some kind of briquettes and sell 'em)
[00:01:49] <les> yes...other scraps are pieces resulting from making round things from rectangular planks
[00:01:53] <Phydbleep> Sell them for humidor flavors.
[00:02:23] <les> I can assure you that I will be barbequeing with cherry for the rest of my life
[00:03:11] <les> cherry wood has cyanide like all fruit woods...
[00:03:38] <les> but I checked and it seems to be often used for smoking and cooking
[00:04:16] <jmkasunich> phy: http://www.eupec.com/gb/2_PRODUCTS/2_1_ProductRange/pdf/db_fs50r06yl4_2_1.pdf
[00:04:28] <jmkasunich> suitable for 20A RMS at 240V (probably)
[00:05:12] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: IRF.COM part # 19MT050XF 500V 30A 1000W brick with bolts.
[00:06:23] <Phydbleep> Looks like the same beast..
[00:06:40] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does not read German.
[00:06:56] <jmkasunich> it's in english too
[00:07:19] <Phydbleep> Yeah, But I hate sub-titles. :)
[00:07:24] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[00:08:17] <jmkasunich> this is what I've been using lately (4 in parallel) http://www.eupec.com/gb/2_PRODUCTS/2_1_ProductRange/pdf/DB_FS450R17KE3_2_3.PDF
[00:08:19] <Phydbleep> Those are 300V 50A but look pretty close.
[00:08:28] <les> I am going to have a late dinner...
[00:08:37] <les> thanks john for your help
[00:09:02] <jmkasunich> the IR 19MT050XF is a H bridge... VFDs use three phase bridges
[00:09:33] <jmkasunich> les: you're welcome... sorry I can't help with pricing info
[00:09:47] <les> np...later
[00:10:02] <Phydbleep> I thought I said to use 3 of them?
[00:10:15] <jmkasunich> parallel the two sides of each one?
[00:10:27] <jmkasunich> (you really need 1-1/2 of them
[00:10:47] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: I need some "engineering samples" of that last part.. Like a dozen or so. :)
[00:11:11] <jmkasunich> the 450A one?
[00:11:18] <jmkasunich> I could probably come up with one or two
[00:11:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is a gret one for tying the sides in parallel and using the original rating. :)
[00:11:38] <jmkasunich> they go for about $500 each
[00:12:05] <jmkasunich> yeah, over building can be a good thing
[00:12:20] <Phydbleep> Should handle 60A... Rate it for 30A. :)
[00:12:30] <jmkasunich> gotta be carefull tho, sometimes strange things happen
[00:13:06] <jmkasunich> the diode recovery in those 450A modules is worse (high dV/dT- 20KV/uS) when they are switching only a few amps - less than 10
[00:13:19] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Equal length leads or figure in the propagation delay at really high freqs.
[00:14:02] <jmkasunich> under the right conditions (diodes recovering after <1uS of on time) we've seen 50kV/uS
[00:14:12] <jmkasunich> that stuff gets everywhere
[00:14:37] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has had a couple of things go "WOOF!" because a wire was 2" shorter than it's mate.
[00:14:45] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:15:01] <jmkasunich> except ours don't go WOOF, they go BOOM
[00:15:41] <Phydbleep> Well.. The box went woof.. It was pretty well sealed to start with..
[00:16:30] <jmkasunich> (DC bus is 10,800uF at 1000VDC, 5,400 Joules, all let out in a millisecond or less)
[00:18:23] <Phydbleep> Nice.. I may want to talk to you later about firing a laser. :)
[00:18:47] <Phydbleep> Or a rail-gun. :)
[00:19:13] <jmkasunich> IGBT's don't work for rail guns... can't handle high enough current
[00:19:29] <jmkasunich> I think those folks use either SCRs or triggered spark gaps
[00:19:44] <jmkasunich> railguns need 10s to 100s of kiloamps
[00:20:08] <jmkasunich> (we probably get that, but only when the drive blows up ;-)
[00:22:02] <jmkasunich> gotta go... need to shutdown this computer so I can work on the ones that are under it in the stack ;-)
[00:22:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a nasty thought about crossing a drive rack with a rail gun.. Blow the drivers and it shoots the carcass into the scrap pile. :)
[00:22:35] <jmkasunich> cool!
[00:22:54] <Phydbleep> It's sure be satisfying some days. :)
[00:24:24] <Phydbleep> Hurray... The wife is home and I can go out and pull weeds... yippie.. :\
[00:25:15] <Phydbleep> bbiaw..
[00:51:04] <A-L-P-H-A> a
[00:51:17] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... an hour chatting with a girl that I like, seemd like 5 minutes.
[01:12:13] <A-L-P-H-A> rebates suck ass... it took 5 months to get to me.
[02:17:57] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Was it you that was building linear bearings?
[02:18:08] <Jymmm> * Jymmm nods
[02:19:05] <Phydbleep> I have a thought.. 2 hexagonal pieces of plate with 3 sawn blocks between?
[02:19:24] <Jymmm> Phydbleep have you looked at the cost of hex bar?
[02:19:43] <Phydbleep> Who needs a hex bar?
[02:20:08] <Jymmm> Phydbleep then I dont quite understadn what your describing
[02:21:31] <Phydbleep> Use round bar. the 2 hexes of plate have a hole for the rod, the other 3 pieces are a 3 bearing mount, use bolts to clamp the whole thing together.
[02:22:04] <Phydbleep> Similar to the cast ones with no casting.
[02:22:18] <Jymmm> how thick are these plates?
[02:22:22] <Jymmm> (apx)
[02:22:26] <Phydbleep> 10-13mm
[02:22:45] <Jymmm> hmmmm about .250"
[02:22:49] <Jymmm> err .5"
[02:23:06] <Phydbleep> 13mm
[02:23:21] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : Favor... can you do a Q&D sketch and post it some where?
[02:23:40] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Hang on a few.
[02:23:40] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is Drain Bamaged today
[02:23:43] <Jymmm> thanks
[02:39:16] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[02:39:16] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[02:41:36] <Phydbleep> Crap.. Now I'm brain damaged.. Or the program is.. trying to draw a hexagon ...
[02:42:20] <Jymmm> shit happens
[02:43:17] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep gives up on eagle and tries open-fx.
[02:43:26] <Jymmm> or gimp =)
[02:43:53] <Phydbleep> Wham,Bam Hexagon.. WTH was so hard about that?
[02:45:14] <Jymmm> Phydbleep how many fingers am I holding up?
[02:46:27] <Phydbleep> Just the middle one.. :P
[02:46:37] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[02:46:41] <Jymmm> nope.... none
[02:46:52] <Jymmm> see, your seeing double when none are there!
[02:54:52] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: You know what an F-117 looks like from the top? Sort of a cubist boomerang?
[02:55:24] <Jymmm> http://images.google.com/images?q=f-117&num=100&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&sa=N&tab=wi
[02:57:21] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Park 3 nose to nose.. paint a hexagon around them, put the bearings between the wings.
[02:57:46] <Jymmm> your just trying to confuse me arent ya?
[02:58:05] <Phydbleep> 120 degree bearing spacing.
[02:58:10] <Jymmm> oh I see what your saying
[02:58:31] <Phydbleep> No, i never learned how to draw in open-fx. :)
[02:58:39] <Jymmm> what os?
[02:58:45] <Phydbleep> Win32
[02:58:51] <Jymmm> ms-paint?
[02:58:53] <Jymmm> PSP
[02:58:55] <Jymmm> PS
[02:58:58] <Phydbleep> Waiting for the linux port.
[02:59:01] <Jymmm> Gimp
[02:59:33] <Phydbleep> Gimp is great for art and crap for drafting.
[03:01:01] <Jymmm> I think I'm still trying to figure out how to cut at 60 degree angles
[03:01:26] <Phydbleep> No milling, all sawn.
[03:02:07] <Jymmm> Right, but CUTTING (swawing) at 60 degree angels
[03:02:19] <Phydbleep> use the 2 hex plates to sandwich the 3 bearing carriers.. ues 3 big bolts to hold it together.
[03:03:37] <Phydbleep> Lay it all out on a piece of 1.25" plate with a compass? Don't they teach the circle to hexagon trick anymore?
[03:04:14] <Jymmm> nope
[03:04:34] <Jymmm> * Jymmm are kollaj edjumakated
[03:05:00] <Phydbleep> Ah.. The radius of your circle is also the length of the flat side on a hexagon with it's points at the circle.
[03:06:25] <Jymmm> Ah, ok. cool
[03:06:37] <Phydbleep> Put the point of the compass on the edge of the circle and draw an arc that crosses the edge twice.
[03:06:56] <Phydbleep> Move the point to 1 of those points and repeat.
[03:07:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, i understand now. neat trick!
[03:07:17] <Jymmm> wans't aware the radius thingy
[03:07:36] <Phydbleep> That's the 'old-school' trick for subdividing a circle. :)
[03:08:01] <Jymmm> I've been trying to find a book with math tricks like that for years!
[03:10:13] <Phydbleep> Origami books. :)
[03:10:53] <Jymmm> the origami book I have is kinda an intro... and a lil waek
[03:12:20] <Phydbleep> I used to be able to draw the isometric "cube with a corner missing" in about 3 minutes including shading.
[03:13:44] <Jymmm> that's cool
[03:14:07] <Jymmm> I just tried the circle/hex thing... that's sweet
[03:14:47] <Jymmm> is that something you learned in gepmetry?
[03:14:52] <Jymmm> geometery
[03:14:56] <Phydbleep> Yeah, It's usefull for a lot of things including seting up hexagonal tents properly. :)
[03:15:07] <Jymmm> lol
[03:15:31] <Phydbleep> Rope and pegs. :)
[03:16:20] <Jymmm> now if I had a REAL compas instead of this (literally) $0.99 plastic one
[03:17:12] <Phydbleep> use a piece of steel strap or angle with 2 small holes in it.
[03:17:40] <Phydbleep> Scribe in each hole and draw away. :)
[03:17:51] <Jymmm> that'll work
[03:18:21] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. I've been working no-budget for 30 years. :)
[03:19:05] <Jymmm> =)
[03:20:58] <Phydbleep> See what I was saying about the 3 F-117 shaped pieces between the hex plates?
[03:21:34] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how to make it adj though
[03:22:09] <Phydbleep> Put the bolts for the bearings through slots in the wings so you can set the tolerences.
[03:22:10] <Jymmm> I think I'll get this saw near the eond of the month : http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37151
[03:22:50] <Jymmm> the problem is I have no way of cutting "slots"
[03:23:45] <Phydbleep> I wish.. I'll end up with a 3 wheel bandsaw.. 3 - 10" wheels in a triangle with a blade around them..
[03:23:50] <Phydbleep> No slots.
[03:24:15] <Phydbleep> What's wrong with a cammed bolt then?
[03:24:34] <Jymmm> camed bolt?
[03:24:51] <Phydbleep> Like for a quick change toolpost.
[03:25:24] <Jymmm> youre talking to someone who doens't even have a bandsaw (yet)
[03:26:13] <Jymmm> Oh, like an offset washer?
[03:26:25] <Phydbleep> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/v.ford/qctp.htm
[03:26:37] <Phydbleep> It's a lathe item.
[03:27:18] <Phydbleep> use a split bushing and then push the bearing onto that.
[03:27:49] <Phydbleep> 4'th pic down.
[03:28:03] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is feeling awefully ignorate ...
[03:28:10] <Jymmm> I see the pin
[03:28:21] <Jymmm> what's a split bushing, like a split washer?
[03:29:07] <Jymmm> can one buy a cam bolt like that?
[03:29:14] <Jymmm> pre fabbed?
[03:29:23] <Phydbleep> see the ground down section of the pin?? Split a tube lengthwise and put the halves around the pin. Press the bearing onto the tube.
[03:30:34] <Jymmm> which will only fit in when it's 'centered'
[03:30:41] <Phydbleep> No bigger than the ones you need are you could get them fabbed cheap or make them on a hobby lathe..
[03:31:32] <Phydbleep> Rotate the bolt to set your tolerence. :)
[03:31:52] <Jymmm> or sloppiness =)
[03:32:06] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep like them tight..
[03:32:18] <Phydbleep> Take that how you will. :)
[03:32:25] <Jymmm> lol, will do
[03:32:50] <andy_> I found a bench top dyna-mite, at work today with a "bad card"
[03:33:08] <Phydbleep> andy_: ??
[03:33:30] <Phydbleep> Dyna-mite go boom?
[03:33:39] <Jymmm> andy_ --> http://photos1.blogger.com/img/29/1375/1024/Dyna-Mite.jpg ????????????????????????????
[03:33:48] <andy_> I dunno, that's what I was told
[03:34:36] <andy_> ah, noooo, we carry many more rounds in MI
[03:34:45] <Jymmm> rotf
[03:35:09] <Jymmm> andy_ you got the 100 round mag's too huh?
[03:35:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep carries attitude and figures that anyone who wants to get shot will bring their own gun.
[03:35:39] <andy_> * andy_ puts on tin fiol hat, reads ssl docs
[03:36:12] <Jymmm> * Jymmm wires andy_'s tin foil hat for 220VAC
[03:36:14] <andy_> no, no, nothin' here over 14 rounds
[03:36:25] <Jymmm> andy_ legally....
[03:36:31] <Phydbleep> andy_: It's tin for apache or php.. For ssl it's lead foil.
[03:36:49] <Jymmm> pre-ban 17 round
[03:36:55] <Jymmm> is still elgal here
[03:36:55] <andy_> ah thanks Phydbleep
[03:36:57] <Jymmm> legal
[03:37:15] <andy_> I think here too
[03:37:31] <Phydbleep> Crossbow.. Silent and ammo that you can recycle with no reloading bench. :)
[03:37:37] <Jymmm> and what sucks.. is the post ban mags are marked big time!
[03:37:44] <andy_> but heck it's hard to beat 5 rnds 00, anyway
[03:37:53] <Jymmm> G17
[03:37:58] <Jymmm> 9mm
[03:38:17] <Phydbleep> G11, Caseless. :)
[03:38:39] <andy_> anyway, is the 'lil dyna-mite a good candidate for emc experimentation?
[03:39:06] <Phydbleep> andy_: What is it? mill/lathe/controller?
[03:39:38] <andy_> mill with controler
[03:39:39] <Jymmm> andy_ G11; as in one of these ---> http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/g11.htm
[03:40:47] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Yeppers.. They make great kayak oars. :)
[03:41:00] <Jymmm> lol
[03:41:17] <Phydbleep> andy_: How big? I know you said benchtop..
[03:41:18] <andy_> hard to cary consealed
[03:41:32] <Jymmm> what do they mean "caseless" ?
[03:41:57] <andy_> I don't know, small, mabe 8x12ish, less the 1 hp
[03:42:10] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I'd definately look better hung than John Holmes if I tried to hide my SB on me...
[03:43:11] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: No shell casing, no primer. the propellant is molded on the back of the slug. :)
[03:43:45] <Phydbleep> andy_: What do they want for it and how old is it?
[03:44:30] <andy_> aat least 15 yrs old, I'd liek to set it up for "show and tell" then mofe on to bigger things
[03:44:44] <Phydbleep> Bad board + old age == $$$
[03:45:25] <andy_> I see, i need to read docs a bit I reckon
[03:46:07] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... If you decide not to I might just to be able to mill pcboards. :)
[03:47:24] <andy_> I'm not sure what hardware i need, and the 'bad board" was hearsay from a coworker
[03:48:28] <Phydbleep> P-II 300 or better with nothing else running..
[03:48:44] <Phydbleep> Plus whatever for driver boards.
[03:49:38] <Phydbleep> About $30 / channel for parts to do it yourself for stepper drives.
[03:50:22] <andy_> I see that's not out of the question, spare box or 2
[03:51:07] <Phydbleep> About $10 per channel for 4096 ppr encoders if you make them yourself.
[03:51:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is working on the design for those right now.
[03:53:18] <Phydbleep> ~$100 in parts for 5 channels of 100V 10A H-Bridge drive with the 4096 position encoders. :)
[03:53:26] <andy_> I'll investivate more
[03:53:43] <andy_> that's 4096/rev?
[03:53:58] <Phydbleep> Yeah 8-)
[03:54:29] <Phydbleep> Symmetric pwm encoding on a 1.8" disk. :)
[03:54:33] <andy_> * andy_ 1/pi....
[03:55:52] <Phydbleep> Apple Pi?
[03:56:16] <andy_> no I can onlt afford AMDs :)
[03:56:16] <Phydbleep> 2450 dpi for the encoders.
[03:57:08] <Phydbleep> I'm working on a 1200 dpi radial printer for later ones.
[03:57:16] <andy_> so the controler boards have rs-232 interfaces then?
[03:57:46] <Phydbleep> I^2C to a microcontroller to the lpt.
[03:58:12] <andy_> hm
[03:58:21] <Phydbleep> 150 Hz polling for the encoders.
[03:58:47] <Phydbleep> Plus a rotation counter for high velocity traverse.
[04:01:00] <Phydbleep> Max spin rate for the pwm readout is 2000 degrees/sec.
[04:04:29] <Phydbleep> andy_: What do they want for the machine? Or do you know?
[04:05:33] <andy_> I do not know
[04:07:22] <Phydbleep> if you can run a soldering iron and want to play it's worth up to ~ $200 (if it's not beat to death and will do 0.001) Maybe $300 with the drive motors.
[04:08:01] <Phydbleep> That is based on my opinion and not on any real value of the device.
[04:08:14] <andy_> I'd like to get paid to learn more about emc
[04:09:10] <andy_> that was gross, I'd like t odo some R&D at work
[04:09:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is in New mexico near Sandia Labs and sees lots of "It was $50k in its day, do I hear $1?"
[04:09:34] <andy_> hah, yep
[04:10:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm bids $0.25
[04:10:51] <Phydbleep> I don't have room to store 99% of the machines that used to turn up at auction here.. There is a HUGE turret cnc machine rusting away at one of the local shops.
[04:10:55] <andy_> but ya can make a +/- .001 spheroid with a 300$ pos, hat is cool
[04:11:30] <Phydbleep> andy_: If you use the right finishing technique yes. :)
[04:12:22] <andy_> < makes "no polish" copper electrodes
[04:13:37] <Phydbleep> I mean I'd have to build a shop around the machine it's so huge.. looks like a 20"tool turret on it.. I could stand on the table and the tools are at shoulder height.
[04:14:00] <Phydbleep> s/20"tool/20 tool
[04:14:37] <Phydbleep> I think he's take $1000 for it just to get it gone.
[04:14:43] <Phydbleep> he'd
[04:14:53] <andy_> that's too big for me
[04:15:52] <Phydbleep> Me too.. I've got 8"x16" to work in and a 1937 SouthBend lathe that takes up 1/4 of that. :)
[04:17:00] <andy_> yep
[04:17:33] <andy_> I have zero personal space, but my boss wil lpretty much let me do whatever I want
[04:18:16] <andy_> short of a blank check
[04:18:33] <Phydbleep> That's all personal space.. Except for the dog that thinks it's a roller skate. :)
[04:18:46] <andy_> heh
[04:20:00] <Phydbleep> andy_: Ask him if you can mill out a mill ?
[04:20:12] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... :)
[04:21:04] <andy_> I'd rather sysadmin, my own controler :)
[04:21:40] <Phydbleep> Well, If you mill a mill you'll need a controller for the new one. :)
[04:21:56] <andy_> and cover it with AMD/Slackware/emc stickers
[04:22:22] <Phydbleep> Debian not slackware for the BDI's.
[04:23:56] <andy_> I can live with debian
[04:24:10] <Phydbleep> And for gawds sake don't try to play mp3's on a running emc box
[04:24:38] <Phydbleep> emc seems to do OK, but the mp3's sound like crap.
[04:24:53] <Phydbleep> Morning fenn. :)
[04:25:02] <fenn> 'evenin
[04:25:17] <andy_> ok, noted
[04:26:16] <fenn> seems i have to wait another week before i can get my milling machine
[04:26:58] <Phydbleep> Bummer. :[
[04:30:06] <Phydbleep> I'll probably end up making a small gantry router for pc boards at least. I should be able to do all the pieces on the lathe with a milling attachment and a rotary index head.
[04:31:24] <fenn> why do you need a rotary index head?
[04:31:35] <Jymmm> Phydbleep come on... you can cut PCB's using a 1/2" end mill =)
[04:33:05] <Phydbleep> little 120 degree bearing holders for the linear movement bearings, Same as Jymmm is looking at only smaller/lighter/more precise.
[04:33:22] <fenn> like on buildyouridea.com?
[04:34:08] <Phydbleep> Yeah, sort of.
[04:34:44] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: That's the site.. http://www.buildyouridea.com/
[04:35:33] <Jymmm> Phydbleep Yeah, I've seen it, but I aint goin THAT far atm =)
[04:37:10] <Phydbleep> Yeah, but the hex/wedges idea from earlier could be stacked.to add bearings like that.
[04:38:49] <fenn> sounds like you need some castings
[04:39:21] <Jymmm> Nah, more like need to find a case of linear bearings that fell off the truck! =)
[04:39:27] <fenn> heheh
[04:39:28] <Phydbleep> I dont really like the lo-res encoders he's got.. They're ok for a tachometer but not for positioning.
[04:44:48] <fenn> i had thought that the allen head bolts he uses as axles for the roller bearings were eccentric for fine adjustment of preload, but i guess he just uses set screws to push on the axle
[04:47:09] <Jymmm> fenn how so?
[04:47:39] <Phydbleep> Check out for a real encoder.
[04:47:51] <fenn> well start with an allen head shoulder bolt (a stripper bolt) mount in the 4 jaw off center and cut down to the bore of your bearing.
[04:48:04] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been learning to hack postscript.
[04:48:06] <fenn> now when you turn the axle the bearing moves around in a circle
[04:48:37] <Phydbleep> use a split bushing around the cam bit.
[04:48:47] <Jymmm> oh
[04:49:08] <fenn> probably easier to just make an eccentric bushing than to turn down a bolt
[04:49:18] <Phydbleep> That way you can grind it in the middle of the bolt and still get the bearing on it.
[04:49:33] <fenn> ah good idea
[04:49:46] <Phydbleep> :)
[04:50:31] <fenn> i time out when trying to connect to your ip number
[04:51:09] <Phydbleep> fenn: dcc?
[04:51:23] <fenn> nah i figure i've seen what you made already anyway :P
[04:51:34] <Phydbleep> ?
[04:51:50] <fenn> it's a circle with radial stripes, right? or some variation on the theme
[04:52:33] <Phydbleep> PWM encoded radial stripes... With printing in a semicircle.. :)
[04:53:41] <fenn> damn now where did it save that file
[04:54:12] <Phydbleep> It'll display ok in gv on a linux box, I dunno about a windose box.
[04:54:23] <fenn> running fedora 3
[04:54:25] <Phydbleep> hand ahcked .ps. :)
[04:54:31] <Phydbleep> hacked
[04:56:03] <fenn> so you're planning on using this with steppers so you know if it's a wide stripe or a skinny stripe,r ight?
[04:56:43] <Phydbleep> at 2450 dpi that should be good for 4096 ppr with a 128 pixel linear photodiode array.
[04:57:00] <fenn> oh getting fancy huh
[04:57:07] <Phydbleep> Stepper or brush motor.. PWM drive. :)
[04:57:19] <fenn> why not just do absolute encoder if you have a 128 pixel array?
[04:57:28] <Phydbleep> $100 in parts for 5 channels.
[04:57:42] <fenn> i mean print out the absolute encoder pattern
[04:58:21] <Phydbleep> That is an absolute encoder. You mean Grey code or binary?
[04:59:10] <fenn> uh, i mean the first row is a semicircle, the second row is two quarters, third row four eighths, fourth row eight sixteenths etc until 1024 lines
[05:00:14] <Phydbleep> 10 bit.. this comes out 12 bit? Allthough...
[05:01:04] <Phydbleep> Naw.. This is a lot simpler to print.
[05:02:16] <Phydbleep> There will be a 50/50 pwm disk inside that for the tach and a sync marker befor that .ps is done..
[05:03:17] <fenn> you are using a microcontroller right?
[05:04:01] <Phydbleep> 1 in each encoder, 1 in each drive channel and 1 for a bus master.
[05:04:16] <fenn> geez
[05:04:19] <Phydbleep> 7 for 3 channels.
[05:04:32] <fenn> * fenn scratches his head
[05:05:12] <Phydbleep> <$2 each for the slaves and <$5 for the master.
[05:05:35] <fenn> my preferred setup uses 4-bit binary absolute encoders, and a comparator-based bus connected to the parallel port
[05:06:04] <fenn> it multiplexes through the devices attached to the bus, reads data and sends data for each device at the same time
[05:06:25] <Phydbleep> Power can fail mid-cycle and as long as it didn't thrash the tooling it should know right where it is.
[05:06:50] <fenn> how far off can it get if power fails?
[05:07:06] <fenn> greater than one turn? >1/2 turn? etc
[05:07:17] <Phydbleep> I'm on a 11x60 lathe.. Lots of rotating mass. :\
[05:07:46] <Phydbleep> 8-10 turns on a finish cut.
[05:07:53] <fenn> wow
[05:08:19] <fenn> I try not to worry about such things until after they've happened :)
[05:08:24] <Phydbleep> 20 kilo 4 jaw chuck are like that. :)
[05:08:39] <Phydbleep> chucks
[05:08:40] <fenn> oh this is a spindle encoder
[05:08:52] <fenn> right.
[05:08:58] <Phydbleep> And for for the leadscrew, etc..
[05:09:12] <Phydbleep> same encoder for all of them.
[05:09:37] <Phydbleep> 200V 20A drive channel though.
[05:09:50] <fenn> huh\/
[05:10:52] <Phydbleep> the rest of the drivers are 100Volt 10Amp, the spindle drive will be 200Volt 20Amp. 1HP PMDC motor.
[05:11:43] <Phydbleep> $120 (projected) in parts to set mine up. :)
[05:11:47] <fenn> what are you going to use this lathe for?
[05:12:36] <Phydbleep> Everything but a sex toy?
[05:12:40] <Phydbleep> Hehehe. :)
[05:13:22] <fenn> well, if you throw enough money at it, it will be sexy enough in its own right
[05:13:29] <Phydbleep> I need to be able to cut metric thread when i'm done.
[05:14:09] <fenn> i figure computer-controlled spindle speed is overkill for most anything but continuous production
[05:14:12] <Phydbleep> That's why all the encoder accuracy and syncing.
[05:15:05] <fenn> does standard G-code even support spindle speed?
[05:15:47] <Phydbleep> I also want to be able to chuck up a cam blank punch "GO", walk off and know the machine will shut down when it's done or if there is a problem.
[05:16:12] <fenn> i guess i am overestimating the cost of power transistors
[05:16:51] <Phydbleep> $1/1, $55/100 for 100V 10A hexfets.
[05:17:02] <Jymmm> G'Night Folks!
[05:17:08] <Phydbleep> G'nite Jymmm
[05:17:09] <fenn> nite
[05:17:50] <fenn> 50 cents each for 6x 1 kilowatt?
[05:19:15] <fenn> that's in a 8-pin DIP?
[05:19:23] <Phydbleep> TO-220
[05:19:57] <fenn> i must have misunderstood "hexfet"
[05:22:01] <Phydbleep> It's a combo device, Mosfet + diode + etc.
[05:22:07] <fenn> i'm gonna stick to buying electronics from surplus catalogs... less choices to make me confused
[05:27:23] <Phydbleep> i go for whatever i can rip out of a dead whatever for parts suppliers. :)
[05:28:05] <fenn> that's a good way to start a collection but not so good for projects
[05:28:51] <Phydbleep> it's OK to test/prototype with but hell to get matched set. :)
[05:28:54] <Phydbleep> sets
[05:29:24] <fenn> are the power ratings on to-220 components just a bunch of crap since it depends on the heatsink anyway?
[05:29:57] <Phydbleep> Mainly.. You need to keep the devices <25C
[05:30:55] <fenn> 250C right?
[05:31:01] <Phydbleep> i fixed a motor controller for a company by pointing out that the heat sink was too small and they should double the surface area.
[05:31:14] <Phydbleep> 25C
[05:31:25] <fenn> hmm
[05:31:29] <fenn> why so low?
[05:32:02] <Phydbleep> Keeps the devices from roasting themselves at startup/under load.
[05:33:05] <Phydbleep> Spikes to 100C are ok, but need to drop the temp soon or "Poof!".
[05:34:04] <fenn> will a transistor heat itself up when in the "off" state?
[05:35:09] <Phydbleep> I don't think so.. But I'm going to be running 50kHz pwm through this system.
[05:39:52] <Phydbleep> fenn: One thing to know about me is I use the 5x rule for power circuits. Fat traces, oversize drivers, etc.
[05:40:28] <fenn> one thing to know about me is i've never gotten a circuit to work :)
[05:40:46] <Phydbleep> I still use the proper fuses, but i have no worries about a pcboard smoking a trace.
[05:41:27] <fenn> how to calculate the width of a trace?
[05:41:51] <Phydbleep> thickness x width.
[05:42:08] <Phydbleep> treat it as a flat wire. :)
[05:42:26] <fenn> um i mean, I want to run 100 watts through this trace, with no green stuff on top, in a box with a fan
[05:42:47] <fenn> lots of variables i don't know
[05:43:01] <fenn> probably just make it as fat as will fit, huh?
[05:43:47] <Phydbleep> 1. mask the solder points with some blue-tac/fun-tack.. 2 brush on varnish to cover the copper.
[05:44:30] <Phydbleep> fenn: Yeah, Within reason.. Tie any unused copper to ground for a ground plane.
[05:47:48] <Phydbleep> Hmm.. Time to feed the dogs.. Which one looks hungrier, the cat or the turtle?
[05:48:56] <Phydbleep> bbiaw.
[06:01:21] <Phydbleep> fenn: BTW, Fingernail polish make a good insulator if you use 3 or 4 coats.
[06:02:11] <fenn> thanks for the tip, i had been thinking only about laser transfer method for making prototype boards
[06:05:05] <Phydbleep> Yeah, That's what the fun-tak and varnish is for... File/Peel off the lumps when the varnish is dry.
[06:05:27] <anonimasu> good morning
[06:06:06] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: :)
[06:06:16] <fenn> ohio gozaimasu
[06:06:53] <Phydbleep> Gerzundheit?
[06:07:17] <anonimasu> ohayou gozaimasu
[06:07:40] <Phydbleep> Japanese?
[06:07:42] <fenn> romaji ga warui ne
[06:07:52] <fenn> phydbleep: yeup
[06:08:01] <anonimasu> :)
[06:08:37] <Phydbleep> Shimatta.
[06:08:45] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[06:22:53] <anonimasu> does anyone know of a good screencapture program that will dump printscreens to .jpg directly?
[06:24:01] <fenn> gimp...kinda bulky
[06:24:57] <anonimasu> not for linux..
[06:24:57] <anonimasu> :/
[06:25:23] <fenn> what happens when you press "print screen"?
[06:25:33] <anonimasu> it takes a printscreen.
[06:25:45] <anonimasu> the trouble is that I need to write a manual for the software I am developing..
[06:25:58] <anonimasu> and I dont feel like saving 50 images by hand
[06:25:58] <anonimasu> :)
[06:26:08] <fenn> ponder
[06:29:48] <Phydbleep> xpwd and batch it.
[06:30:23] <fenn> http://www.hernansoft.com/downloads_en.html#Captura
[06:30:51] <fenn> can't be that bad if they have a linux version right?
[06:31:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep just uses xpwd as it's almost built-in.
[06:31:47] <anonimasu> :)
[06:31:53] <anonimasu> it probably works..
[06:33:00] <fenn> i had a program on my mac plus where you hit command shift 1 2 or 3 for full screen, part of a screen, part of screen to clipboard. dunno why that's so hard to implement
[06:34:01] <Phydbleep> xpwd won't jpg directly but you should be able to pipe it to png2jpg.
[06:34:22] <fenn> what is this xpwd you speak of?
[06:34:46] <Phydbleep> on a linux box 'man xpwd'
[06:35:32] <Phydbleep> What? no xpwd on FC3?
[06:35:35] <fenn> $locate xpwd (nothing)
[06:35:47] <fenn> dont see anything on google either
[06:35:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep beats Redhat with a Mac.
[06:36:41] <Phydbleep> Sorry, my mistake.. xwd.
[06:37:15] <fenn> ah.
[06:37:29] <Phydbleep> Quick and dirty way to do it. :)
[06:38:04] <fenn> ooh cool there's also xwud that un-dumps the window :P
[06:41:38] <Phydbleep> Yeah, It's usefull for images for software documentation as you can specify the window to dump from the command line.
[06:46:13] <anonimasu> hm captura wont do what I want :/
[06:48:26] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Win32 or linux?
[06:51:28] <Phydbleep> Wow.. Gimp barfs hard on my hacked .ps :)
[06:51:53] <anonimasu> win32
[06:52:36] <Phydbleep> Cygwin, then run xwd?
[06:52:51] <anonimasu> hmm..
[06:52:58] <anonimasu> too much work..
[06:53:07] <anonimasu> I might aswell hand save the images :/
[06:53:41] <alex_joni> gmorning
[06:53:46] <anonimasu> morning alex
[06:53:53] <alex_joni> hey anders
[06:53:56] <alex_joni> what's up?
[06:54:01] <Phydbleep> Morning alex. :)
[06:54:02] <anonimasu> not much making a manual
[06:55:16] <alex_joni> I'm translating :(
[06:55:20] <alex_joni> hey Fido ;)
[06:55:49] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is still hacking postscript.
[06:56:53] <anonimasu> alex_joni: maybe I should give you my EMC translation someday soon
[06:59:22] <alex_joni> heh.. yeah
[06:59:26] <alex_joni> tkemc I presume ;)
[06:59:29] <anonimasu> yep
[06:59:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is working on mini...
[06:59:46] <alex_joni> but my emc-box here is so sloooow
[06:59:54] <alex_joni> I think I'll fiddle with PERIOD ;)
[07:00:06] <alex_joni> make it output pulses once / second ;)
[07:00:13] <anonimasu> lol
[07:00:13] <alex_joni> that would leave time for GUI :D
[07:00:16] <anonimasu> nice smooth motion
[07:00:19] <alex_joni> yeah
[07:00:29] <alex_joni> ahh.. and use a pulse multiplier
[07:00:43] <anonimasu> I found some servos from a company we deal with
[07:01:00] <anonimasu> MAC's the name of the manufacturer..
[07:01:04] <anonimasu> integrated drives..
[07:01:07] <alex_joni> MAC? ;)
[07:01:13] <anonimasu> MAC motors
[07:01:18] <anonimasu> I think..
[07:01:31] <alex_joni> do they have PC too?
[07:01:38] <anonimasu> PC?
[07:02:14] <anonimasu> http://www.sigbi.se/Downloads/Servo/mac_komplett%20datablad.pdf
[07:02:22] <anonimasu> although bloody expensive..
[07:02:42] <anonimasu> you can even position them with rs232..
[07:02:43] <anonimasu> ;)
[07:04:54] <anonimasu> I wouldnt mind having 2x of thoose on my mill..
[07:07:34] <fenn> why don't you ever see electric tool changers or pneumatic drive motors
[07:07:53] <fenn> they should just pick one power transfer medium and stick to it
[07:08:27] <Phydbleep> What? And put all those engineers out of work?
[07:08:34] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[07:11:20] <fenn> arg. i'm obviously not getting anything done here. I'm going to dig for food in the trash now.
[07:11:36] <Phydbleep> fenn: Bleah.
[07:12:06] <Phydbleep> fenn: Broke or for fun?
[07:12:15] <fenn> i will post pictures i took of my fridge when i get my house back together
[07:13:07] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is planning on getting a newer fridge and calling in an airstrike on this one.
[07:13:43] <fenn> g'night.
[07:16:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if the contents of fenn's fridge developed sentience, nuclear power an meltdowns all in the course of a month.
[07:17:48] <Phydbleep> I make sure mine stays at the 'hunter gatherer' level and no higher..
[07:40:15] <alex_joni> heh
[08:47:59] <alex_joni> les: are you around?
[09:04:13] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: added mini to EMC2. Fixed the bug toggleRelAbs not found on SF: 1184730
[09:15:25] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc/src/emctask/mini.tcl: fixed the bug 1184730 regarding toggleRelAbs, also toggleCmdAct (which was also missing)
[09:16:20] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: added toggleCmdAct (which was also missing)
[09:23:49] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes cross-eyed trying to hack 5 degree stripes in ps and gives up for the night.
[09:25:01] <Phydbleep> G'nite all. :)
[09:25:31] <alex_joni> night fido
[09:25:31] <alex_joni> :D
[09:26:46] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. The last 200 or so lines in the history buffer is 'vi enc2.ps ; gv enc2.ps'
[09:26:58] <alex_joni> hehe
[09:27:02] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07bdi-4 * 10emc2/src/emc/task/mini.tcl: fixed the bug 1184730 regarding toggleRelAbs, also toggleCmdAct (which was also missing)
[09:27:37] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Are you updating for the 2.6 kernel as well?
[09:28:16] <Phydbleep> emc2 that is.
[09:29:25] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: I should, but I am not (not currently)
[09:30:09] <alex_joni> I still gotta get the time to set up a 2.6 machine (shame on me for not keeping up with the kernel development :D)
[09:30:51] <paul_c> BDI-4 is currently 2.6.10 with RTAI-3.2
[09:30:56] <Phydbleep> For shame.. 50 lashes with a hardcopy of 'man bash'
[09:31:33] <paul_c> Phydbleep: Six weeks with emacs would be more appropriate
[09:31:34] <Phydbleep> Then when you wake up, Get busy! :)
[09:32:29] <alex_joni> yo Paul
[09:33:31] <paul_c> Morning alex_joni
[09:34:55] <alex_joni> what's new?
[09:41:02] <alex_joni> an0n: still around?
[09:41:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni slaps anonimasu around with a wet towel (borrowed from paul_c)
[09:42:17] <paul_c> * paul_c hands anonimasu a large wet kipper
[09:45:42] <alex_joni> you need to hand him some usage instructions too
[09:45:43] <alex_joni> lol
[10:25:43] <anonimasu> iab
[10:25:51] <anonimasu> alex_joni: what?
[10:25:52] <anonimasu> ^_^
[10:26:54] <alex_joni> hmmm.. if I only remember
[10:27:01] <anonimasu> haha
[10:34:50] <alex_joni> right.. you submitted your email address to a sf-bug
[10:34:58] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:34:58] <anonimasu> :)
[10:35:07] <alex_joni> that'll ensure you some constant mailflow
[10:36:22] <anonimasu> hehe
[10:44:07] <paul_c> A new face...
[11:54:12] <paul_c> Afternoon Steve
[11:54:28] <stevestallings> Hi Paul, thought you had left already.
[11:56:02] <paul_c> Tomorrow morning.
[11:58:01] <stevestallings> Seen Robin lately? We need to get the Preferences tab working when the wiki is used from wiki.linuxcnc.org because Alex has now mentioned that address in public.
[12:00:31] <paul_c> He'll probably be around later this evening.
[12:09:03] <stevestallings> Yikes, it is worse than I thought. The wiki database at wiki.linuxcnc.org is a COPY of the original and is not being updated!
[15:10:01] <A-L-P-H-A> good day people.
[15:38:39] <A-L-P-H-A> micrometer = 0.001 mm?
[15:38:59] <Jymmm> nanometer!
[15:39:24] <A-L-P-H-A> what's a micrometer then? um
[15:39:41] <Jymmm> ask google 1 micrometer to mm
[15:39:58] <Jymmm> http://www.google.com/search?q=1+micrometer+to+mm&sa=Search+Google
[15:40:24] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: One micrometre = 0.001mm
[15:40:57] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=.001+inch+to+micrometer&spell=1 actually what I wanted.
[15:41:24] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A that's not what you asked for though! =)
[15:41:28] <A-L-P-H-A> cause this cold rolled steel is 12.4um/m/C from 20C to 100C range.
[15:41:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I know.
[15:42:11] <Jymmm> paul_c was that a typo or Brit spelling?
[15:42:55] <A-L-P-H-A> and I need to shrink 0.5005" to say 0.4995". So that's how many degrees do I need shrink the shaft.
[15:43:03] <A-L-P-H-A> or should I just press fit the damn things?
[15:43:06] <paul_c> Not at all.
[15:43:28] <paul_c> metre is the correct spelling.
[15:43:52] <Jymmm> paul_c like COLOR ?! =)
[15:44:28] <paul_c> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre ttp://www.bipm.fr/en/convention/
[15:45:40] <Jymmm> it sucks that micrometer and Millimeter have the same abbr.
[15:48:29] <paul_c> errr... S.I. units don't
[15:48:44] <paul_c> m = milli or 10^-3
[15:48:55] <paul_c> u = micro or 10^-6
[15:49:32] <Jymmm> paul_c a cse of dont believe everything you read.... �m
[15:49:57] <Jymmm> first three entries on google have micro as m instead of �
[15:50:19] <Jymmm> and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet =)
[15:50:51] <paul_c> That's probably beause � isn't a standard ascii symbol.
[15:51:26] <Jymmm> yeah, I just use 'u' in it's place
[15:57:16] <Jymmm> you know the extended set... where they have funky a's and such... does that change the definition of the word if they aren't used?
[16:07:17] <Jymmm> Phydbleep You have any more of those math tricks?
[16:28:25] <pemmet> hi there
[16:32:45] <Jymmm> howdy!
[16:33:28] <pemmet> i just found out why my stepper wouldn't move...
[16:33:35] <anonimasu> hello
[16:33:59] <pemmet> it was origionaly for a scanning lazer microscope.... and factory set to 20,000 step/rev
[16:34:10] <Jymmm> hey anonimasu
[16:34:25] <Jymmm> pemmet man, that's some stepper motor!!!
[16:34:29] <pemmet> ya!
[16:34:32] <pemmet> seriously
[16:34:38] <pemmet> way more than i could handle
[16:34:48] <Jymmm> pemmet how big (ounces)?
[16:34:58] <pemmet> it's acutally pretty small
[16:35:08] <pemmet> um.. fits in the palm of my hand
[16:35:15] <Jymmm> heh
[16:48:44] <A-L-P-H-A> dod od do.... so boring waiting for something to finish machining.
[16:48:54] <A-L-P-H-A> lathe is running away happily. I hope.
[16:49:36] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A well go design a casing for a rocket engine in the meantime
[16:50:08] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A or mill me a 100 round 9mm magazine =)
[16:50:16] <Jymmm> be sure to date it 1999 =)
[16:51:11] <Jymmm> actually... .22 LR would be better
[16:52:47] <Jymmm> Now there's an idea... see if I could convert this tube feed into mag fed somehow.
[16:54:55] <Jymmm> or at least increase the round capacity a bit
[16:55:06] <Jymmm> I hate reloading all the time =)
[17:53:30] <pemmet> got a single stepper... tryin' to run it... freqmod or steppermod?
[17:53:33] <pemmet> which would be better?
[17:53:47] <pemmet> all it's doing is step direction... i wanna see it move...
[17:53:49] <paul_c> with BDI-4.xx ?
[17:54:01] <pemmet> with 4.2something
[17:54:10] <pemmet> the same one i had before
[17:54:21] <paul_c> You have a choice of....
[17:54:23] <paul_c> One.
[17:54:28] <paul_c> freqmod.
[17:55:10] <pemmet> heh... makes it simple
[17:56:22] <pemmet> i reset my period to .000020...
[17:56:38] <pemmet> with the new stepper... only does 200 step/rev
[18:00:31] <alex_joni> greetings
[18:00:51] <alex_joni> anyone home?
[18:00:51] <anonimasu> hi alex
[18:00:59] <alex_joni> hey an0n
[18:01:08] <alex_joni> anders: short question for you
[18:01:12] <alex_joni> what would you choose
[18:01:44] <alex_joni> a. 64kbit (99.5% uptime warranty) from GTS (former KPNQwest) on TDM
[18:02:16] <alex_joni> b. 64kbit (max. 512kbit) 99.0% uptime on fiberoptics
[18:02:25] <anonimasu> b.
[18:02:29] <Imperator_> hi alex
[18:02:36] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[18:02:38] <anonimasu> unless the operations is critical..
[18:02:46] <alex_joni> not that critical
[18:03:01] <alex_joni> b. is a smaller provider
[18:03:18] <anonimasu> fibreoptics tends to have lower latency
[18:03:30] <Imperator_> on sunday there is a Boing 767 waiting for me in Mailand :-)
[18:04:14] <anonimasu> but it depends largely on how good peering they have
[18:04:21] <alex_joni> cool
[18:04:28] <alex_joni> Imperator_: charter?
[18:04:30] <alex_joni> lol
[18:04:35] <Imperator_> :-D
[18:04:44] <Imperator_> only one seat :-(
[18:04:56] <Imperator_> but enough :-)
[18:05:04] <alex_joni> hehe
[18:05:10] <alex_joni> thought you rented the plane
[18:05:28] <Imperator_> they made no good offer
[18:08:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ywans
[18:14:51] <A-L-P-H-A> guys think I can pressure fit a bearing onto a shaft that's +0.005"?
[18:15:57] <anonimasu> 0.127mm
[18:16:02] <anonimasu> no
[18:16:20] <paul_c> Imperator_: What time do you land ?
[18:16:22] <A-L-P-H-A> shit. so sanding here I come.
[18:16:30] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: 0.03mm maybe
[18:16:41] <anonimasu> but now way 0.127 ;)
[18:16:45] <A-L-P-H-A> true.
[18:17:04] <Imperator_> paul_c: �hm, one moment
[18:19:37] <Imperator_> I'm not 100% shure (documents are at work) but i think its the one that arrives at 14:10 at Sunday
[18:19:59] <Imperator_> the flight is reserved vor me, i book it tomorrow
[18:31:01] <Imperator_> paul_c: do you know if somebody else of the fest participants is arriving at sunday ???
[18:36:48] <paul_c> jmk is arriving Sunday, Ray is expected late evening
[18:37:25] <paul_c> swp may well be flying in, and I think Jon Elson too.
[18:37:57] <paul_c> what times, I do not know.
[18:39:46] <A-L-P-H-A> think 0.04-0.07mm would be okay to pressure fit a bearing?
[18:40:37] <A-L-P-H-A> it's kinda worm right now as well..
[18:40:38] <A-L-P-H-A> :/
[18:40:45] <A-L-P-H-A> warm
[18:41:58] <paul_c> what OD ?
[18:44:22] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes A-L-P-H-A with a slide rule!
[18:45:38] <anonimasu> hm, 0.03 presses on..
[18:45:48] <anonimasu> easily
[18:48:51] <alex_joni> night guys
[18:52:58] <anonimasu> :)
[19:35:07] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu... good. cause it's now +0.005mm to around +0.02mm around the bearing seats.
[19:35:28] <A-L-P-H-A> you know... I've NEVER actually sen a slide rule.
[20:01:35] <Jymmm> I've seen, but never used a slide rule, but I'd like to learn sometime.
[20:05:31] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep comes wandering back from the land of sleep and parenthood..
[20:09:04] <Jymmm> Phydbleep G'Morning
[20:09:11] <Phydbleep> Hehehe. Slide rules are fun.. There's a Picket 600-ES log/log (6") and a #4 deci/log/log vector hyperbolic model sitting on my desk right now. :)
[20:10:43] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... And I've yet to have the batteries in either one go dead. :)
[20:11:12] <Jymmm> you mean there are different kinds of slide rules?
[20:12:32] <Phydbleep> Oh yeah.. There's even ones that are rotating disks instead of the sliding bar.
[20:13:29] <Jymmm> but I'd consider that wiht of a different style than anything else
[20:13:40] <Jymmm> but I'd consider that more of a different style than anything else
[20:17:03] <Phydbleep> I actuallly learned how to run a slipstick before caculators were everywhere ('76).. Their ok for quick math but not so great for ultra precision..
[20:18:20] <Jymmm> a what?
[20:18:48] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... slipstick == sliderule. Got banned from bringing it to math class because because I was "making the other students feel inferior"..
[20:19:15] <Jymmm> not your problem
[20:19:46] <Phydbleep> My response was "They can spend $5 like I did and RTFM"..
[20:20:46] <Jymmm> exactly
[20:23:36] <Phydbleep> If you've got a good memory/spatial sense it gets to the point after a while where you don't even use the sliderule other than to check your estimate.. Hehehe... That's why my buddy in the math dept @ UNM is having me tutor him in how one works. :)
[20:24:57] <Phydbleep> He calls his field of study "Quantum Theory", I call it "Procto-Theology".. :)
[20:25:05] <Jymmm> lol
[20:25:05] <jepler> anybody know of a good X simulator for a slide rule?
[20:25:15] <jepler> I know there are some for other nice calculators like hp48
[20:26:05] <Jymmm> if you have an HP clac, why would you need a slide rule?
[20:26:08] <Phydbleep> jepler: Let me look.
[20:26:15] <jepler> geek value
[20:26:35] <Jymmm> that's like putting an XT cpu into a P6
[20:26:42] <Jymmm> I mean LITERALLY
[20:26:44] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/scales.html
[20:26:57] <Phydbleep> There's the types of slide rules.
[20:28:12] <Phydbleep> jepler: XFRee86 3.x had a sliderule as part of xcalc.
[20:29:21] <Jymmm> what the hell... no add/subtraction! What do I have todo attach an abacus to this thing?!?!?!
[20:30:04] <jepler> Phydbleep: wild, I never knew that
[20:30:47] <Phydbleep> jepler: You can add/sub on a slipstick.. RTFM! :)
[20:31:10] <jepler> Phydbleep: I mean, about xcalc
[20:32:07] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep looks.. There's a + & - key there.
[20:32:43] <Jymmm> Phydbleep on that urel it says "...They cannot add or subtract..."
[20:33:33] <Phydbleep> Linear scale will do it not log scale.
[20:33:51] <jepler> Phydbleep: "I never knew xcalc had a sliderule mode"
[20:34:22] <Phydbleep> I can't find the sliderule mode on the new xcalc.. Fedora Core 3
[20:34:55] <jepler> I was able to build it from ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/local-distfiles/joerg/sliderule.tar.gz after changing the line 'extern int errno;' to '#include <errno.h>', then running 'xmkmf; make'
[20:35:41] <Jymmm> jepler http://www.freshports.org/deskutils/sliderule/
[20:35:59] <jepler> yeah, freshports is where I found it.
[20:36:51] <jepler> his README says the sliderule was from X11R3, which I'd have guessed was older than XFree86 3.x. Seems like they were at X11R4 or R5 when I first started using XFree86.
[20:39:10] <Jymmm> Phydbleep EHy, you have any more lil math tricks like the hex/circle one?
[20:39:54] <paul_c> Time to go - See you all in another time zone.
[20:40:03] <Phydbleep> Laters paul :)
[20:40:04] <Jymmm> paul_c safe trip!
[20:40:28] <Jymmm> paul_c be sure to say hello to jack for me
[20:41:02] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Probably.. But none that i really remember till I need them for something...
[20:41:38] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: There's another one for generating a pentagon the same basic way.
[20:41:50] <Jymmm> Phydbleep I hear ya. I've justt been looking for a math tricks book for years with stuff like that in it.
[20:42:08] <Jymmm> very hard to come by
[20:42:34] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Seriously.. Origami / paper-folding books .
[20:42:54] <Jymmm> not just that stuff... but other math tricks as well.
[20:43:17] <Jymmm> like multiplying two 6 digit numbers together in your head and come very very close
[20:43:52] <Jymmm> or lil things like all number divisable by 9, add up to 9
[20:43:59] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: That's hte mental sliderule trick.. takes a good memory and the ability to visualise the sliderule.
[20:44:29] <Jymmm> nah, this was taught a totally different way... very simplistic
[20:44:46] <Jymmm> too simplistic actually, and I forgot and he was a sub professor
[20:44:57] <Jymmm> for a day... I would have loved to pick his brain
[20:47:57] <dmess> hi all...
[20:48:03] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sweeps up dmess
[20:48:21] <Phydbleep> Sorry, Autopilot.. Spring cleaning..:)
[20:48:28] <Jymmm> * Jymmm slaps Phydbleep with a slapstick!
[20:48:29] <dmess> anyone here used a network printe??
[20:48:40] <Jymmm> * Jymmm raises hand (M$)
[20:48:42] <Phydbleep> Yeah.. Whassup?
[20:49:05] <Phydbleep> HP/Xante here.
[20:49:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm setup quite a few too!
[20:49:09] <dmess> wifey purchased a 5 in 1 brother mfc544cn
[20:49:22] <Jymmm> dmess what os ?
[20:49:31] <Phydbleep> dmess: You have my condolences?
[20:49:32] <dmess> xp pro doesnt seem to like the cd
[20:49:48] <Jymmm> dmess dl from their website
[20:49:50] <dmess> thx bleep
[20:50:00] <dmess> am doing the d/l now..
[20:50:06] <Jymmm> yeah, I dont care for Brother either
[20:50:08] <Phydbleep> Download the newest driver.
[20:50:26] <Jymmm> canon/epson for inkjets
[20:50:28] <dmess> ive had good sucess usually with them..
[20:50:37] <Jymmm> dmess luck you
[20:50:40] <Jymmm> lucky
[20:50:48] <Phydbleep> dmess: I hate multi function units.. Something always craps out and kills the whole thing.
[20:51:11] <Jymmm> Phydbleep newer ones are ok, just have to be careful
[20:51:15] <dmess> i have 3 cannons and an epson that wouldn't print for her.. so she got pissed and went shopping.
[20:51:45] <dmess> got an instore replacement warrenty for 35.00 bucks
[20:52:00] <Phydbleep> I keep buying the new HP's because it's cheaper than buying cartridges for the old ones.
[20:52:06] <Jymmm> $35 for the warranty?! Hell I pick up printers for $40
[20:52:53] <Jymmm> a 2yr warranty on my gf's video card is only $25
[20:53:11] <dmess> but i figure mines gonna have issues ... sooner ... rather than later.. and its a discontinued model so i'll get the upgrade as a replacement
[20:53:21] <Jymmm> ah, ok cool
[20:53:43] <dmess> method to the maddness...
[20:53:51] <Phydbleep> dmess: Hurray for 1kV across the usb bus?
[20:54:10] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pets his HP LJ 4p.... 10+ years and still goin =)
[20:54:18] <dmess> my new job is called a Methods Engineer... ; )
[20:54:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a HP 5P if anyone wants to pay shipping.
[20:54:44] <dmess> not usb.. its tcp/ip into the router
[20:54:51] <Jymmm> hell no... no display on that thing
[20:55:19] <Phydbleep> You need a display to print?
[20:55:43] <dmess> i just destroyed an hp laser jet II clone by QUME
[20:56:03] <Jymmm> Yep... low paper, insert #10 envelope, New font face selected, etc
[20:56:14] <dmess> QMS... was a 200 pound beast but solid as a rock
[20:56:21] <Jymmm> and PS too
[20:56:36] <Phydbleep> Sorry 5L not 5P
[20:56:52] <Jymmm> even worse... I have a 4L sitting in the shed
[20:57:15] <Jymmm> now if you had a LJ 4MP I'd take it off your hands =)
[20:57:21] <dmess> what are we supposed to do with all this shit...
[20:57:37] <Jymmm> dmess Can you say.... Plasma Cutter!
[20:57:41] <Jymmm> dmess Can you say.... Plasma Cutter Art!
[20:57:53] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep counts printers and sees a 5L, LJ IIIp, Officejet combo, 720c 890c.. And that's just the HP's..
[20:57:55] <dmess> landfills cant handle the electronic undertakers
[20:58:04] <Jymmm> SawsAll Suflea!
[20:58:13] <Jymmm> (sp)
[20:58:28] <dmess> just TIG a bunch a MoBo's together
[20:58:30] <Phydbleep> Soufle ?
[20:58:37] <Jymmm> what Phydbleep said
[20:58:51] <dmess> Hack & Slash on holidays... ; )
[20:59:14] <Phydbleep> Souffle ? Those fluffy things you don't slam doors around when they're cooking. :)
[20:59:42] <Jymmm> SawzAll Souffle
[20:59:44] <dmess> or stomp on the floors..
[21:00:28] <dmess> i used to be fond of a good old fashioned bondfire
[21:00:37] <Jymmm> * Jymmm still is
[21:01:12] <Phydbleep> Me too, but they want to call it arson if you do it at city hall..
[21:01:23] <dmess> but burnin' plastics and stuffes isnt so good for the environment...
[21:01:50] <Jymmm> dmess that depends on how fast and hot you can get the fire to =)
[21:02:14] <Jymmm> 6000 degrees F in 3 seconds... no sticky plastic smell
[21:02:19] <Jymmm> stinky
[21:02:41] <dmess> we used to gather in the local sand pit and light up a few old truck tire.. stink AND smoke show..
[21:03:25] <Jymmm> The Simpsons and their Tire fire been goin for 20+ years
[21:03:26] <dmess> how do you get it to 6000F in 3 s.... solid rocket fuel??
[21:03:32] <Phydbleep> dmess: You sure you're not in Albuquerque?
[21:03:52] <Jymmm> dmess sounds good to me... LOX works too =)
[21:03:58] <Phydbleep> dmess: Add lots of liquid oxygen?
[21:03:59] <dmess> nope... in CANADA and proud of it
[21:04:18] <dmess> LOX isnt so easy to administer...
[21:04:25] <Jymmm> sure it is
[21:04:27] <Phydbleep> That's right, You're close to A-L-P-H-A ..
[21:04:36] <dmess> how so??
[21:04:52] <Jymmm> dmess http://ep.llnl.gov/msds/Chem120/lox-oxidation.html
[21:05:04] <dmess> oxy lances have a life expectancy of 1 trip
[21:07:12] <dmess> there's a man WITH a deathwish
[21:07:21] <Jymmm> dmess Here's the videos ---> http://www.doeblitz.net/ghg/
[21:07:42] <dmess> paramedics on scene??
[21:07:45] <Phydbleep> Naw.. He just wants that hamburgerr"MOW!" :)
[21:07:48] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[21:07:53] <Phydbleep> NOW!
[21:08:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to finish machining this spindle... it's "almost done"... need to rough out the tail end.
[21:08:16] <dmess> no friggin doubt..
[21:08:41] <dmess> ALPHA... need a hand programming??
[21:08:48] <Phydbleep> And it sves you from having to scrub all the crap from last season off the grill. :)
[21:08:54] <Phydbleep> saves
[21:09:01] <Jymmm> exactly
[21:09:30] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, not really... I'm only doing the tail end... the head is already done... and machined nicely.
[21:09:32] <dmess> but the grill MUST be bolted down
[21:09:46] <Jymmm> dmess what grill?
[21:09:47] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is going to build a "marshmallow roaster".
[21:10:07] <dmess> so what's the tail need??? spindle for what??
[21:10:18] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep? a mechanical one? or just a squer?
[21:10:22] <A-L-P-H-A> skewer
[21:11:25] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, just a spot for a bearing (3/8 bore), a pully, and a nylon lock nut... so I'm thinking 3/8-24tpi.
[21:11:31] <Phydbleep> http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com
[21:12:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I used to machine alot of aluminium (6061), and had bags of it... I just threw it out instead. As I never got around to building a smelter.
[21:13:28] <Phydbleep> If the neibors ask it's a "marshmallow roaster". :)
[21:13:39] <Phydbleep> neighbors
[21:13:43] <dmess> 3/8-24 ny-lock will be a std. aircraft component chk. GRASS ROOTS AVIATION 905-434-4651
[21:13:46] <A-L-P-H-A> neightbours.
[21:13:48] <A-L-P-H-A> :0
[21:14:12] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, I can pick it up for free at durham fasteners...
[21:14:17] <A-L-P-H-A> near the nuke plant.
[21:14:22] <dmess> 3/8-16 ny-lock you can get from FAStENALL
[21:14:23] <Phydbleep> Those nosy S.O.B.'s next door even. :)
[21:14:37] <dmess> that would be better.
[21:15:03] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, they can get it to me without issue... I could get a 3/8-16... either would be fine.
[21:15:31] <dmess> GRA.. sells 1-5 pcs.. no min.. has a/c alum. tubbing and Cr-Mo tubbing too
[21:16:05] <dmess> certs available..
[21:16:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has 3/8-24 nuts and ponders stuffing some in an envelope with a note reading "Nuts to you! :)"
[21:16:19] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, I get my stock from Ability Metals.
[21:16:36] <A-L-P-H-A> and fasterners from Home Depot, but usually from Durham Fasteners.
[21:16:45] <Phydbleep> Gee.. Mine just came out of a 737.. :\
[21:16:57] <A-L-P-H-A> Durham Fasteners, the owner likes me...
[21:17:03] <dmess> good supplier..but limited on some alloys..
[21:17:22] <A-L-P-H-A> Ability Metals, show up with cash, and they usually give me a good deal... but they're switching over to this bastard system which keeps track of end stock.
[21:17:34] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, they can order it in for me.
[21:17:40] <A-L-P-H-A> if I need something special.
[21:18:11] <dmess> yeah... but if the order it in you get NO break on it... and its getting $$$
[21:18:18] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, got any 316 Stainless Steel rods kicking about?
[21:18:43] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, yeah, that's why I go in the back door, and order at the back desk.
[21:18:44] <Phydbleep> Talk to the mechanics at the small airfields, they usually have hardware they'll sell for race/specialty stuff...
[21:19:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I want 3/4" dia, grade 316 stainless to machine... cause it's supposed to behave like Titanium 6-4.
[21:19:40] <dmess> i like sat am purchasing... show up at the metal supermarket with coffee and dog-nuts.. we talk about what i need... they cant find it... i drive home and its in the back seat...
[21:19:55] <dmess> when i get home
[21:20:10] <Phydbleep> I used to get buckets of used hardware and spherical rod ends because of a requirement that they be changed after X hours of flighttime.
[21:20:19] <dmess> how much Ti you need?
[21:20:25] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, where is the metal supermarket in durham? I haven't been there yet.
[21:20:40] <dmess> oshawa
[21:20:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I have 4ft of Ti grade 5 (6-4)
[21:20:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't need more yet...
[21:21:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I can get it for about $25/ft.
[21:21:18] <A-L-P-H-A> 25USD.
[21:21:20] <A-L-P-H-A> no certs.
[21:21:24] <dmess> s/e of Thickson and 401
[21:21:59] <A-L-P-H-A> 1610 McEwen Drive, Units1-3
[21:22:06] <dmess> oh i see.. i have about 6 ft of 1"dia Ti gr6..
[21:22:20] <dmess> addy sounds right...
[21:22:36] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=1610+McEwen+Drive,+oshawa,+ontario&hl=en
[21:22:54] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, what are you doing with it?
[21:23:01] <A-L-P-H-A> how much did that cost?
[21:23:27] <A-L-P-H-A> oh hell, it's right beside Princess Auto
[21:23:38] <dmess> s on thickson...1st light go left..E....first street to your S.. and 1st driveway on the left.
[21:23:51] <dmess> kitty corner to PA
[21:24:22] <A-L-P-H-A> a BDI is also near that area.
[21:24:48] <dmess> hmm.. had that bar a while... was supposed to make model helicopter varios.. but it didnt pan out
[21:25:29] <dmess> BDI is in the front of the plaza/unit complex from m/s
[21:25:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I knwo where it is now.
[21:25:55] <dmess> good guys
[21:26:30] <dmess> i like machining Ti....
[21:26:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I haven't machined it yet.
[21:26:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know how it'll perform.
[21:26:58] <dmess> ppl sayit sucks... i say it rocks...
[21:27:16] <A-L-P-H-A> aluminium is so easy to machine.
[21:27:21] <A-L-P-H-A> so is mild steel.
[21:27:26] <dmess> 80 sfm in the anealed condition
[21:28:01] <dmess> ms is THE most miserable material to hold cert amd specs on.
[21:28:12] <A-L-P-H-A> ms?
[21:28:14] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[21:28:15] <A-L-P-H-A> mild steel
[21:28:19] <dmess> it galls
[21:29:08] <dmess> and causes mechanical damage to machined surfaces so the wont pass non destructive testing
[21:29:54] <dmess> i prefer 4130/4140 at 42-45 Rc
[21:29:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just making it for a high speed spindle
[21:30:41] <dmess> i have info in the data base for hsm... and its not ALL about RPM
[21:31:15] <A-L-P-H-A> it is when the end mill is 1/32"
[21:31:16] <dmess> code and machine response are major contributing factors
[21:33:03] <dmess> been there... done that...i had a sample with a 1" x 1" pocket with what looked like a bad surfacc finish on the botton
[21:34:41] <dmess> i had drilled 250 holes of .005" dia in the bottom
[21:35:55] <Phydbleep> dmess: DIY tea strainer?
[21:39:55] <dmess> yup... but the s/f didnt look good on the bottom of the pocket...
[21:41:07] <Jymmm> Phydbleep I was playing with your circle thingy... never realized that a perfect triangle cut in half is 60 degrees.
[21:41:59] <dmess> huh???
[21:42:20] <dmess> circle thingy...?? compass
[21:42:28] <dmess> protractor???
[21:42:33] <Jymmm> compass
[21:42:34] <Phydbleep> Yeah, if i remember right the pentagon is formed from the length of that line from the tip to the 90 deg corner.
[21:42:38] <dmess> a dot.???
[21:42:43] <Jymmm> dmess: Got Compass?
[21:42:57] <dmess> both kinds
[21:43:08] <Phydbleep> dmess: Compass as in circle drawing thingy.
[21:43:20] <dmess> are we bisectin' and trisectin'
[21:43:29] <dmess> yup
[21:43:54] <Phydbleep> Fornicatae Non Sapiens..
[21:44:23] <Jymmm> Phydbleep well, I'm not seeing the pentagon thingy
[21:46:32] <Phydbleep> You draw the cirle, draw the hex to get the 120 deg triangle, split that to get a 30/60/90 triangle, The long side of the 90 is the length of the pentagon sides (I think, It's been years)
[21:47:17] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[21:47:36] <Phydbleep> Go back to the top point on your hex and redraw for 5 sides. :)
[21:47:39] <Jymmm> I'll never remember that, but I'll try it
[21:48:17] <Phydbleep> Play with it for an hour or so after you figure it out and you will remember it. :)
[21:48:29] <dmess> its got to do with 5 sides in 360 degees...72 deg.
[21:49:01] <dmess> shit.. i just had it and forgot it all in the same minute
[21:49:09] <Jymmm> lol
[21:50:16] <Phydbleep> 72? 5? /me spent hours last night trying to get postscript to generate a 72 division 5 degree tach wheel... ARGH!
[21:50:22] <Jymmm> well, the the hex I got 40, but when I got to the end to figure out pent I got 60.
[21:50:29] <Jymmm> mm
[21:50:37] <dmess> that short term memory los is synonomous with winblows
[21:50:38] <Jymmm> so it seems it's 1.5 *
[21:51:00] <Phydbleep> 1:1.2
[21:51:30] <dmess> hes... thats where the 20% came from..
[21:53:47] <dmess> im not drawing this im workin in me melon and had a stray .20
[21:58:04] <dmess> how you gettin the hex... im assuling compass and straight edge only right??
[21:58:11] <dmess> assuming
[21:58:15] <Jymmm> just compas
[21:58:24] <Jymmm> draw a circle.
[21:58:33] <dmess> yup
[21:58:48] <Jymmm> then move the point ot the compas to the edge of the circle and draw an arc within the circle
[21:59:13] <dmess> same R
[21:59:22] <dmess> ??
[21:59:23] <Jymmm> next, move the copas to one of the points you just drew, and make another arc, etc
[21:59:43] <Jymmm> yes, smae radius
[21:59:45] <dmess> mapps the center..
[21:59:46] <Phydbleep> That get's you 60 deg divisions.
[22:00:08] <Jymmm> dmess then you'll have a six pointed flower =)
[22:00:31] <dmess> yes i see.
[22:00:53] <Jymmm> then draw straight line from tip to tip
[22:01:17] <Jymmm> * Jymmm can now understand how the pyramids were built
[22:01:48] <dmess> got it... i wasnt allowing myself to see ti int of inner C and overall Circle
[22:02:34] <dmess> what was the question anyway??? ; )
[22:03:05] <Jymmm> dmess "What's the telephone number for 9-1-1?"
[22:03:26] <dmess> call 4-1-1 and ask//
[22:03:44] <Jymmm> Hello operator give me the number for 911!
[22:04:10] <dmess> i could connect oyu for .50$
[22:04:37] <dmess> but maybe you just need a friend.. l;)
[22:04:44] <Jymmm> lol
[22:05:00] <Jymmm> ok connect me to Miss Cleo for $0.50
[22:05:21] <Phydbleep> That # is busy, we can redial it for you till it connects for $.75...
[22:05:29] <dmess> miss C is on a slightly more elevated plan
[22:05:49] <dmess> you see...
[22:06:12] <dmess> bleep we should be her manager
[22:06:33] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would rather manage rats..
[22:06:42] <Phydbleep> They have better ethics.
[22:06:51] <Jymmm> Phydbleep theres a difference?
[22:06:59] <dmess> i like managing plants
[22:07:12] <dmess> they have the best ethics
[22:08:01] <Phydbleep> Morals are what you think someone else should do.. Ethics are what you think you should do..
[22:09:45] <dmess> nice .. i never heard it put that way before
[22:10:58] <dmess> It's a game.
[22:10:58] <dmess> You win by walking away from a landing. If you can use the glider
[22:10:58] <dmess> again, all the better.
[22:10:58] <dmess> It's a zero-sum game -- every foot of lift is merely borrowed,
[22:10:58] <dmess> to be paid back in full by the end of the day.
[22:10:58] <dmess> The only thing you can accumulate is memories.
[22:11:00] <dmess> Do you want fond, fun memories or those of fear?
[22:11:02] <dmess> Judgement and History provide the right answer
[22:11:14] <dmess> same as life..
[22:11:19] <Phydbleep> ??
[22:11:47] <dmess> was the last entry in my to keep doc
[22:13:51] <Phydbleep> Ah.. I was wondering if it was a paste or just lag.
[22:14:07] <dmess> what is gas worth stateside??
[22:14:29] <dmess> paste
[22:14:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is paying $2.25 avg
[22:15:43] <dmess> still cheaper than our .80-.90 a litre
[22:16:03] <Phydbleep> What'sthe exchange rate now?
[22:16:33] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : I still can't figure out how to get 5 points out of that =(
[22:17:04] <dmess> a friend just got back from Fla. (exchange .78 to a dollar i believe) cost him 420 in fuel without the winch...
[22:17:35] <dmess> just called about getting an aero package for the mountain in a box
[22:18:07] <dmess> chk out www.highperspective.com
[22:18:15] <dmess> brb
[22:19:51] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: http://www.jimloy.com/geometry/pentagon.htm
[22:21:37] <Phydbleep> That has a couple of ways to do it.
[22:24:13] <Jymmm> * Jymmm still don't get it... eh will try some other time I guess
[22:26:15] <Phydbleep> Maybe it was the short side of the 90.?
[22:28:49] <dmess> short side of the 90 to the biscected intof
[22:29:34] <dmess> should give the arc length... scribe and connect ...NO???
[22:31:11] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes out to the shop to get the compass..
[22:35:05] <dmess> works in my melon.. but its kinda an etch-a-sketch... so if i shake it the lines fade..
[22:35:21] <Jymmm> dmess Got Tequilia?
[22:35:39] <dmess> dmess... wont touch the stuff...
[22:36:02] <dmess> bad memories...a few scars...you know..
[22:36:06] <Jymmm> lol
[22:36:19] <dmess> beer baby.. ; )
[22:36:37] <dmess> beer & budz
[22:36:46] <Jymmm> beer & babes!
[22:37:23] <dmess> married... 3 kids... kinda kuts down on the prowlin'
[22:37:52] <Jymmm> "Ya just gotta talk her into it.... make her think it's HER idea!" =)
[22:38:08] <dmess> babes come and go.. dudz are there for life
[22:38:21] <dmess> budz
[22:39:12] <dmess> a friend will help you hide.... a buddy will help you hide a body...
[22:39:24] <Jymmm> lol
[22:41:28] <Phydbleep> OK.. I think I remember now.. circle, hex, draw a line through 2 opposite points, line at right angle to that thru 2 other points.
[22:42:05] <dmess> go with it..
[22:42:30] <Phydbleep> you end up with an inverted t, 1/2 the dist from the tob to the crossbar is reall close.. Crappy compass here.
[22:42:40] <Phydbleep> s/tob/top
[22:42:56] <dmess> i fo;;ow..
[22:43:02] <dmess> follow
[22:44:42] <dmess> then from the cross of the T set rad to opposite corner of hex...
[22:45:03] <dmess> transfer to the horizontal line...
[22:45:43] <dmess> use THAT as C and scribe to circle..
[22:46:08] <Phydbleep> I just drew the inverted t and used half the long bar length.
[22:46:33] <dmess> should fall above the hex's int by about 23 % chord length
[22:47:16] <dmess> ruogh guess
[22:49:14] <dmess> ive hand drawn involute gear profiles and numerous wierd and wonderful developments
[22:49:59] <Jymmm> All I've gotten is a clock face
[22:50:07] <Jymmm> dmess bastard you cheated!
[22:50:31] <dmess> how so??
[22:50:33] <Jymmm> Gimme back my crayons!
[22:50:49] <Jymmm> dmess just messin =)
[22:51:04] <dmess> take your bat AND your ball and go play with yourself then... ; )===
[22:51:15] <Jymmm> Good Idea!
[22:51:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes to pull weeds..
[22:51:29] <dmess> but dont break it...
[22:52:11] <Phydbleep> I can pull them now or wait till the ground dries out then move everything and mow.. Less work to yank weeds. :)
[22:52:18] <dmess> old manual drafting days are still handy skills
[22:53:13] <Phydbleep> They were teaching drafting in the 7'th? 8'th grade when I went to school.
[22:53:32] <dmess> i turned all the gardens last weekend...raining on it tonite... put in veggies this coming weekend
[22:53:39] <Jymmm> Now, they teach reading in the 12th grade
[22:53:57] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a junque gargen..
[22:54:05] <Phydbleep> garden
[22:54:15] <Jymmm> Phydbleep I keep telling you... get a goat!
[22:54:35] <dmess> i did a High School Special - Engineering drafting course in grade 11-12 worth 6 credits a yr.
[22:55:12] <dmess> i mentioned a goat to pfred too
[22:55:15] <Phydbleep> I'll have to build a smelter.. Goats won't eat brass and crap parts. :)
[22:55:30] <dmess> maybe get a deal on 1 and share it...
[22:56:03] <dmess> you just need a small crucible forge... for that
[22:56:51] <dmess> do you own a Tiger torch??
[22:57:07] <dmess> have access to some fire brick???
[22:57:36] <Phydbleep> Hmm.. that reminds me.. need to take a trip up on the mesa and grab a few buckets of empty .22's
[22:57:43] <dmess> can read instructions on bag of fire-mix mortar??
[22:57:50] <Phydbleep> Kaocast KR3000 and perlite.
[22:57:56] <Phydbleep> :)
[22:58:17] <dmess> thad'do...
[22:58:29] <Phydbleep> I want one for a 50# crucible.
[22:59:38] <dmess> find a natural gas fired water heater element... but your gonna have to re-jett it fot propane..
[22:59:44] <dmess> for
[23:00:36] <dmess> you have lifting capability i hope... hot lids and all
[23:00:57] <Phydbleep> Blast burner.. and lots of steel for gantry crane. :)
[23:01:14] <dmess> blast burner???
[23:02:25] <Phydbleep> Forced air/fuel system.. I'll use one for this , I know a potter that wants 6 more for kiln burners.
[23:03:37] <dmess> sounds like the ticket... my budz is a blacksmith... we do it all..
[23:04:05] <dmess> we've built a few for his students
[23:05:06] <dmess> gotta go for a reboot
[23:05:11] <dmess> l8r
[23:27:29] <A-L-P-H-A> that was a good nap