#emc | Logs for 2005-04-17

[03:19:37] <Phydbleep> Mercury must be retrograde..
[03:20:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep just hit the jackpot in the $0.51 scrap bin at Home Depot...
[03:21:18] <Phydbleep> 3-3/4 sheets of 3/4" plywood (as 4'x4' pieces) for $5.10 + tax. :)
[08:21:13] <anonimasu> morning
[08:37:40] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Morning. :)
[08:39:16] <anonimasu> what's up today?
[08:39:17] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is trying to decide whether or not to build/re-build/modify a printer..
[08:40:11] <Phydbleep> I need 2400+ dpi and a radial print path.
[08:41:31] <anonimasu> :)
[08:41:44] <anonimasu> hm I kind of doubt the accuracy of a normal one
[08:42:59] <anonimasu> how much precision do you need on the lines?
[08:43:05] <anonimasu> lines/stuff whatever
[08:44:08] <Phydbleep> 2400 dpi printing for a 400 dpi sensor should be fine. :)
[08:44:18] <Phydbleep> 6:1
[08:44:44] <anonimasu> ok
[08:45:34] <Phydbleep> I should be able to print it on a PS printer at that res and have it within 0.8%
[08:49:42] <anonimasu> ok
[09:04:22] <Phydbleep> Morning paul_c :)
[09:04:44] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: Sorry was afk, kid woke up with a bad dream.
[09:06:02] <anonimasu> ok
[09:06:18] <anonimasu> I'll be heading out for the garage in a bit..
[09:12:30] <Phydbleep> Hmmm... What I need is a high precision radial plotter with a pen width of 0.01mm and 10k+ ppr.... :)
[09:13:04] <paul_c> a focused laser beam
[09:15:07] <Phydbleep> I think I can do it.. The encoder for the rotation will be cd size and I'm looking at a hp photoprinter head.
[09:16:32] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep should make it a postscript device just to be perverse.
[09:33:40] <Phydbleep> Would 50x50x15(mm) be a good size for a retrofit encoder?
[09:34:30] <Phydbleep> Shaft diameter 7-30mm, 4096 ppr?
[09:48:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is off to hack the math for a 5" dia 16384 ppr symetric pwm encoder wheel to postion a radial printer..
[10:10:26] <les> ROBIN!!
[10:11:51] <les> robins!
[10:11:54] <les> heh
[10:30:19] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if emc can control a homemade printer to print encoders for emc.
[10:30:47] <Phydbleep> Oh, No.. I've gone cross-eyed..
[10:35:01] <les> I am looking at creating a paltalk voice/video cnc room.
[10:35:17] <les> or something
[10:35:42] <Phydbleep> So people can see you cuss @ the machines when you miss a decimal place?
[10:35:44] <les> perhaps I should make it more general
[10:35:52] <les> heh
[10:36:05] <les> well I don't have video
[10:36:22] <les> but need to install it for videoconferencing
[10:36:29] <les> beats plane tickets
[10:37:18] <les> Clients want me to fly out and talk to them
[10:37:38] <les> I'm sure video conferencing would be just as good.
[10:37:54] <Phydbleep> Beats being groped and shafted for the privledge of being stuffed into an airborne sardine can.
[10:38:04] <les> yeah.
[10:38:32] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is a practical cynic. :)
[10:43:10] <Phydbleep> les: I found cheap encoder blanks for printing encoders.. 2" or 3" clear mailing tabs. It's a round, clear polystyrene with an adhesive back.. <$30/1000
[10:44:18] <les> hmm
[10:45:02] <Phydbleep> That's what the precision radial printer idea is about.
[10:45:17] <les> I think I would make a little stepping engine or something
[10:45:51] <les> actually I have a patented micro optical cnc system similar.
[10:46:05] <les> let me get it..
[10:46:44] <Phydbleep> To print the big encoder for the printer, yeah.. That's why I was wondering if emc could print the first 5" encoders to use to make 2" encoders.
[10:48:24] <les> here...
[10:48:27] <les> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=5&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ptxt&s1=watts&s2='Leslie+M'&OS=watts+AND+"Leslie+M"&RS=watts+AND+"Leslie+M"
[10:49:02] <les> I could just as easily micro emboss encoder ticks with this
[10:50:15] <les> The corner cubes are about .001"
[10:52:45] <les> several thousand lines/revwould not be a problem
[10:55:28] <Phydbleep> I was looking at using a 200 ppr stepper and 500:1 geardown..
[10:57:02] <Phydbleep> The print head only has to move ~ 3/8" to cover the encoder area as it rotates past.
[10:57:23] <les> All sorts of novel ways to accurately step devices were concieved in the late 19th cwntury
[10:57:46] <les> for making diffraction gratings
[10:58:25] <les> quickest way to male a wheel is this:
[10:58:39] <les> draw it in autocad....
[10:58:47] <les> array it...
[10:59:16] <les> send it to a pcb artwork firm and have it developed on clear film
[10:59:24] <les> cost about 20 bucks.
[10:59:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has complex math to feed to a postscript printer to print on acetate. :)
[11:00:34] <les> for 20 bucks you can make about 100 wheels
[11:01:08] <Phydbleep> I'll get 20 on a sheet.
[11:01:28] <les> resolution of the film is a few microns
[11:01:54] <les> that is what us digital does.
[11:02:22] <Phydbleep> The res for the 5" wheels can be 2400 dpi.
[11:02:45] <les> pretty good
[11:03:06] <les> film or micro embossing would be...let's see...
[11:03:13] <les> 15k or so
[11:03:25] <Phydbleep> Actually the res for the 2" wheels can be 2450 dpi and be uner 1% error.
[11:03:36] <les> yeah
[11:03:36] <Phydbleep> under
[11:03:57] <les> plastic stability is a bit of an issue sometimes
[11:05:17] <Phydbleep> I figure the 5's will give me 17k+ ppr, and I can always program a 2-5 turn auto-calibrate cycle to acount for temp variances.
[11:05:24] <les> I did a screen printed encoder with conductive ink right on a pcb once
[11:05:45] <les> it was the time know on an Amana microwave oven
[11:05:54] <les> knob
[11:06:09] <Phydbleep> I fix those with a #2 pencil after the ink gets wet and runs off. :)
[11:06:21] <les> ha
[11:06:42] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a couple of tv remotes that were repaired the same way.
[11:07:01] <les> yeah the stuff wears off
[11:07:17] <les> I used my own formulations that are pretty durable
[11:07:33] <Phydbleep> Funny as hell when the wife asked WTF I thought I was doing and them it worked. :)
[11:07:44] <Phydbleep> then
[11:07:58] <les> I just paint some more on with a brush
[11:08:54] <Phydbleep> I think One4All used india ink for some of their flex-circuit stuff...
[11:09:45] <les> Well my hi resistance coatings are either phenolic or PVC co polymer
[11:10:08] <les> loaded with special carbon black and sometimes silver
[11:10:50] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Nickle-print/Silver-print.
[11:11:13] <les> The carbon is specially treated to control surface oxidation
[11:11:25] <les> it's fine too...
[11:11:41] <les> 200 meters sq per gram surface area
[11:11:52] <les> that is a fine powder!
[11:12:21] <Phydbleep> Hehe.. That's pyro grade. :)
[11:12:39] <les> The primary agglomerate is only about 6 atomic graphitic layers thick
[11:12:48] <les> can only see em in a TEM
[11:12:58] <Phydbleep> Crap.. 06:30 here.. time to get 6 hours of sleep..
[11:13:21] <les> morning or afternoon?
[11:13:26] <les> morning I guess
[11:13:42] <Phydbleep> morning.. 6:30pm iss 18:30
[11:14:45] <les> I'm an odd sort ...I sleep at night and am away during the day.
[11:14:47] <les> heh
[11:15:00] <les> awake not away haw
[11:15:52] <les> india ink.....was thinking
[11:15:53] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is on GMT +12....
[11:16:03] <les> what is the binder?
[11:16:06] <les> hmmm
[11:16:11] <les> oh I know
[11:16:14] <Phydbleep> In a GMT -6 timezone.. :\
[11:16:14] <les> shellac!
[11:17:29] <Phydbleep> Well, I'm off.. And I'm leaving for a while too. :)
[11:17:38] <les> later!
[11:18:14] <Phydbleep> G'nite/G'morning/Good whatever/where ever. :)
[11:42:36] <Bowika> hello! How can i turn off the pid control of emc2?
[11:42:58] <Bowika> or where can i find its parameters?
[11:47:32] <paul_c> do you have the pid component loaded ?
[11:58:14] <Imperator_> Bowika: in EMC2 there are parameter pins.
[12:09:15] <Bowika> which one do you mean?
[12:12:54] <Bowika> i listed the params, but i can't recognise any P or I or D params.
[12:13:25] <Bowika> paul_c: there is no any loaded, but it does the PID
[12:15:54] <paul_c> the other question is which branch are you running ?
[12:16:08] <Bowika> emc2
[12:16:26] <paul_c> head or bdi-4 ?
[12:16:54] <Bowika> how can i check it?
[12:17:13] <paul_c> kernel version ?
[12:17:46] <Bowika> 2.4.18
[12:18:00] <Bowika> i run my own kernel, and it works
[12:18:38] <paul_c> ok You are running head then.
[12:18:47] <Bowika> ok
[12:19:06] <paul_c> (bdi-4 branch won't compile on a 2.4 kernel...)
[12:19:57] <Bowika> yes i knew this
[12:20:25] <Bowika> so do you know where can i set the params of PID?
[12:20:30] <paul_c> Do you have emc2 running at the moment ?
[12:21:01] <Bowika> yes
[12:21:33] <paul_c> does lsmod show a pid module loaded ?
[12:23:39] <Bowika> no
[12:24:33] <paul_c> If PID is being applied, and you do not have the pid module loaded...
[12:24:45] <paul_c> You need to bug jmk about it.
[12:26:33] <Bowika> ok, but i ask me base question........
[12:26:52] <Bowika> please check this: http://www.hszk.bme.hu/~sd491/snapshot2.png
[12:27:29] <Bowika> I have some problem with motion module
[12:28:55] <Bowika> namely: when I command to move x-400 and then x-300 it make the figure above at the link
[12:29:29] <paul_c> It does indeed look like PID is being applied...
[12:30:02] <Bowika> so it can't reach the maximum value of the trajectory, but i turn back not at the end of the traj.....
[12:30:06] <Imperator_> Bowika: do you have servos or steppers ???
[12:30:13] <Bowika> servos
[12:30:21] <Imperator_> which hardware ?
[12:30:25] <Imperator_> or card
[12:30:35] <anonimasu> hm..
[12:30:44] <Bowika> i am writing my own driver to advantech PCL-832 card
[12:30:51] <anonimasu> hello
[12:30:56] <Imperator_> ok nice
[12:31:01] <anonimasu> is anyone of you here good with electronics?
[12:31:05] <Imperator_> one moment i boot my emc2 box
[12:31:11] <anonimasu> or well I know you are but could you help me out a bit ;)
[12:31:11] <paul_c> hang on... You say you have servos, yet the plot uses stepgen counts.
[12:31:27] <Imperator_> hm, question of the definition
[12:32:00] <anonimasu> I have a signal that's 0-5V that I need to get inverted from 5-0 instead.. is there any simple way to solve this?
[12:32:06] <Bowika> paul_c: I started to modify the stepgen.c
[12:32:17] <Imperator_> with a OP
[12:33:07] <Imperator_> what do you want to do with stepgen ?
[12:33:49] <Bowika> no, i only use it as a skeleton of the HAL
[12:34:08] <Imperator_> have writen a skeletor driver
[12:35:01] <Imperator_> or my evoreg driver is maybe also a good startingpoint for a DAC card driver
[12:35:24] <Bowika> I only threw out the unnecessary things.......
[12:35:58] <Bowika> ok i am going to check the evoreg
[12:36:05] <Imperator_> hm, the PCL-832 card has its own controler
[12:38:33] <Bowika> yes it has
[12:39:25] <Imperator_> then you can conect it directly to the motion controler by hal pins
[12:40:01] <Imperator_> interesting experiment
[12:40:15] <Bowika> i made my driver but i doesn't work properly...its principle is the same
[12:40:38] <Bowika> as you showed
[12:40:46] <Bowika> in evoreg
[12:41:11] <Bowika> but this card is interupt driven
[12:41:18] <Imperator_> the evoreg card is a stupid DAC and encoder counting card. It has no motion controller like yours
[12:41:56] <Bowika> yes i know, that's why i have to modify the HAL and RTAPI
[12:42:19] <Bowika> i can do it, but now I have another problem to solve
[12:42:47] <Bowika> when I command to move x-400 and then x-300 it make the figure above at the link
[12:43:13] <Bowika> please check this: http://www.hszk.bme.hu/~sd491/snapshot2.png
[12:44:16] <Bowika> it can't reack the emd of the trajectory, it is possible that I need to check when the motion controller ends it command, but i don't know how....
[12:44:59] <Bowika> it can't reachk the end of the trajectory, it is possible that I need to check when the motion controller ends its command, but i don't know how....
[12:45:39] <Imperator_> hm, i think i cant help you with that :-(
[12:46:02] <Bowika> do you know who can?
[12:46:10] <Bowika> jmk?
[12:46:16] <Imperator_> hm
[12:46:37] <Imperator_> is it possible to write directly to the dac chip on your card ??
[12:46:47] <Bowika> i'm sure he can, but he is not here........ :)
[12:47:31] <Bowika> no I can only write to the input of its motion controller..
[12:47:53] <anonimasu> :)
[12:51:50] <Imperator_> it generates only a interrupt if the counter overflows ??
[13:11:50] <stevestallings> Morning John
[13:12:06] <jmkasunich> morning Steve
[13:12:12] <A-L-P-H-A> les, was i looking foryou? or you looking for me?
[13:12:31] <les> you asked about tool holders
[13:12:58] <les> for 1/8 end mills?
[13:14:52] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[13:15:07] <les> well bottom line is...
[13:15:08] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, and I are thinking of making the same/similar thing. a high speed spindle.
[13:15:32] <les> you can't just drill and ream. not concentric enough
[13:15:38] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[13:15:46] <les> what I do is this:
[13:15:47] <anonimasu> rotary grinding?
[13:16:00] <les> drill undersize....
[13:16:21] <A-L-P-H-A> like a #31? .1200"
[13:16:33] <les> bore it to about .001 -.003 small with a tiny boring bar
[13:16:55] <les> that ream or lap to +.0005 -0
[13:17:21] <les> and cut yhe outer parts on the same setup if possible
[13:17:22] <Imperator_> Hi John
[13:18:39] <jmkasunich> les: good plan, but boring 1/8" dia and 1" or more deep is quite a challange
[13:18:50] <les> yes it is
[13:18:56] <les> I do it though
[13:19:02] <jmkasunich> my approach is to make the hole first
[13:19:02] <les> light cuts
[13:19:08] <jmkasunich> drill and ream
[13:19:14] <les> well I make a hole first too
[13:19:31] <les> about .110 or so
[13:19:41] <jmkasunich> then lube the hole, and use a 1/8" hardened pin as a dead center while turning the OD (speficically the bearing seats)
[13:19:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't have a tiny tiny arse boring bard... and I don't know how well I could grind some HSS to do what I need that small.
[13:20:05] <jmkasunich> that way the seats are concentric to the hole (rather than trying to make the hole concentric to the seats
[13:20:07] <les> jmk that might work ok
[13:20:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I could easily ream .1200" to .1250", only a 2.5thou on either side.
[13:21:19] <les> I made my tiny boring bars from m42 blanks
[13:21:22] <A-L-P-H-A> just make sure the part and cutting tool are cool, and wel lubed.
[13:22:03] <A-L-P-H-A> les, also, holding them in place, I was going to use a #6-32 set screw on either opposite sides of the spindle.
[13:22:15] <les> for the holders I cantelever the thing from a collet and cut all surfaces in that setup (except roughing)
[13:22:54] <les> The boring need only be a few thousandths
[13:23:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I just realized I'd have to flick to rough size, allow the part to cool to room temp, and then grind to a withing tolerance.
[13:23:28] <les> I use a 10-32 set screw...larger diameter than the bore!
[13:23:44] <les> but you want some good holding force
[13:23:50] <A-L-P-H-A> les, true.
[13:23:57] <Imperator_> les: John said you are searching for a high speed spindel !
[13:24:16] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, you asked yesterday already. :D heh. remember?
[13:24:23] <les> Indicating I get sub .001 concentricity from bore to outside no problem
[13:24:44] <Imperator_> A-L-P-H-A:jep but les wasent there anymore
[13:24:48] <les> but JMK might be able to do as well with the dead center method
[13:25:15] <les> Martin I am....I need %kW or so
[13:25:26] <Imperator_> 5kW ?
[13:25:32] <les> yes
[13:25:53] <Imperator_> ok, this one has only 1.1kW but 60000rpm
[13:26:03] <Imperator_> and pneumatic tool changer
[13:26:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, oh, sorry, I thought you were referring to jmkasunich.
[13:26:15] <les> oh realy
[13:26:28] <Imperator_> Precise SC51
[13:26:36] <les> what are you asking?
[13:26:51] <A-L-P-H-A> plane ticket to codefest.
[13:26:57] <les> heh
[13:26:57] <A-L-P-H-A> return flight as well. :D
[13:26:58] <Imperator_> :-)
[13:27:20] <les> martin I will look it up
[13:27:47] <les> the 60krpm has me interested
[13:28:08] <les> I can easily exchange spindles on my machine
[13:28:20] <les> I still need the 5kW....
[13:28:33] <Imperator_> but if you want to use it for production, then you have to change the bearings after some month
[13:28:46] <les> but 60krpm would be handy for other things with tiny bits
[13:29:01] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.1kw to power the motor? 60,000 rpm. Will you take $300CD? [what kinda collets do I need]? How much are bearings?
[13:29:10] <A-L-P-H-A> CD=CDN
[13:29:32] <A-L-P-H-A> can I downspeed the spindle?
[13:29:44] <les> Well yeah I am looking at a 10 hp used Perske...only $300 and guaranteed to run but....
[13:29:50] <les> 800 for a rebuild
[13:30:01] <les> which I think I would have done
[13:30:09] <Imperator_> i think the bearings are about 150EUR if you change them by yourself, spindel service at precise is about 800EUR
[13:30:26] <les> yeah
[13:30:35] <Imperator_> cdn ??
[13:30:54] <les> they rebalance and perhaps remachine the collet chuck
[13:31:01] <les> I don't know
[13:31:17] <les> just a rebalance should not cost so much
[13:31:30] <Imperator_> jep but for 800EUR they will only change the bearings and rebalance it
[13:32:09] <les> well anyway $1100 for a freshly rebuilt 10hp seems ok to me
[13:32:16] <les> only one problem...
[13:32:22] <les> manual tool change.
[13:32:29] <Imperator_> i have six sindels, the bades i have opend and i will buy new bearings the next days
[13:32:44] <Imperator_> thats a good price
[13:32:46] <A-L-P-H-A> some guy on ebay is using http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34063&item=5969356348&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW as spindle motors.
[13:33:06] <Imperator_> :-D
[13:33:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, Canadian.
[13:33:54] <A-L-P-H-A> www.xe.com
[13:34:29] <les> heh
[13:34:38] <les> so you have six of these martin?
[13:34:47] <Imperator_> jep
[13:35:37] <Imperator_> but i have also paid them, so i cant sell them below 400 EUR
[13:36:05] <les> fine
[13:36:21] <les> I can't seem to get any information
[13:36:26] <les> have any links?
[13:36:32] <Imperator_> the biggelst problem is that they are two fase spindels
[13:36:42] <Imperator_> email
[13:37:09] <les> leswatts@lmwatts.com
[13:37:46] <les> If induction they must use 1200 Hz or so
[13:38:54] <A-L-P-H-A> 1.60527CDN = 1euro
[13:39:26] <Imperator_> 1000Hz
[13:39:30] <les> ok
[13:39:44] <Imperator_> 1000Hz at 180V
[13:40:01] <A-L-P-H-A> how many amps is that?
[13:40:18] <Imperator_> at the moment i run one of them on a stepper controller
[13:40:21] <les> prob 3 or so
[13:40:26] <Imperator_> i think 5A
[13:40:58] <les> are you getting a spec sheet on them?
[13:41:23] <Imperator_> 6A at 180V =1100w
[13:41:39] <les> And all have air actuated draw bar?
[13:42:22] <Imperator_> air actuated draw bar ??? don't understand this
[13:42:31] <les> auto tool change
[13:42:42] <Imperator_> jep, pneumatic
[13:42:48] <les> hmm
[13:42:51] <les> cool
[13:43:00] <Imperator_> i don't have a data sheet, but i got some values from precise
[13:43:28] <les> tried to google precise...that is a problem
[13:43:38] <les> what is the full name of the company?
[13:44:06] <Imperator_> originaly they allowed only 50000rpm, but then the figured out they can also do 60000rpm after some years, then they soled it as a 60000rpm spindel
[13:44:36] <les> right similar to most people running 300 hz spindles at 400
[13:44:37] <Imperator_> http://www.precise.de
[13:44:42] <les> looking
[13:45:28] <Imperator_> Precise spindels are one of the best
[13:45:36] <Imperator_> and most expensive
[13:47:54] <les> yes
[13:48:10] <les> ok sc 51 not listed...but does it look like this?
[13:48:22] <les> http://www.precise.us/pdf/SC3062e.pdf
[13:48:56] <Imperator_> you got my mail ?
[13:49:18] <les> checking
[13:50:02] <Imperator_> Hi alex
[13:50:20] <alex_joni> Hey Martin
[13:51:49] <les> hi alex
[13:51:59] <les> these look very nice
[13:52:21] <les> I will call precise in racine about that model monday
[13:52:33] <les> do you want to sell all of them?
[13:52:42] <alex_joni> hey les
[13:52:50] <les> and how are the bearings...ready to replace?
[13:53:28] <les> these must have been used for pcb routing
[13:53:36] <Imperator_> hm, i don't know that exactly, i think they can run 100h more without problems
[13:53:40] <Imperator_> exactly
[13:53:45] <les> ok
[13:54:00] <les> they may have ceramic bearings
[13:54:20] <les> perhaps water cooled
[13:55:28] <les> a gang of 4 of them would be awfully good for cutting pearl inlays and such
[13:55:30] <Imperator_> in a company where i have earned the mony for my studi, they have a J�ger Spindel with 4kW, the last time i was there the spindel sounds like mine, and that was 5 month ago and they still dont change the bearings
[13:55:57] <Imperator_> water cooled and they have steel bearings
[13:56:17] <A-L-P-H-A> what's TIR mean?
[13:56:20] <les> I guess they can last a couple thousand hours sometimes
[13:56:47] <Imperator_> TP ?
[13:56:55] <Imperator_> TIP ?
[13:57:02] <Imperator_> TIR ?
[13:57:02] <les> total indicated roundness?
[13:57:03] <A-L-P-H-A> TP is toilet paper.
[13:57:05] <Imperator_> :-)
[13:57:17] <A-L-P-H-A> les, yeah. it's refering to the spindle.
[13:57:19] <Imperator_> of the bearings ?
[13:57:34] <les> when checking concentricity and such it is just the largest reading minus the smallest
[13:57:35] <jmkasunich> total indicated runout
[13:57:43] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, that wounds better.
[13:57:49] <A-L-P-H-A> and runout is the wobble.
[13:57:58] <les> yeah runout
[13:57:59] <Imperator_> I don't know
[13:58:00] <les> heh
[13:58:08] <A-L-P-H-A> wounds=sounds.
[13:58:08] <A-L-P-H-A> heheh.
[13:58:27] <alex_joni> * alex_joni just finished his first bike trip this year
[13:58:52] <les> must have been a cool or cold ride
[13:58:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I want a crouch rocket. something beginner. sub 700CC.
[13:58:59] <Imperator_> have done 300km this year
[13:59:35] <les> bicycle?
[13:59:42] <alex_joni> my first 60km
[13:59:44] <alex_joni> yeah
[13:59:59] <Imperator_> and have a new forke on my mountainbike !!
[13:59:59] <alex_joni> but that was enough for starters ;)
[14:00:10] <Imperator_> thats ok
[14:00:11] <alex_joni> heh.. I still got my old Indy on it
[14:00:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder how hard it would be if I had a bigger lathe, to machine my own front suspension.
[14:01:03] <les> whoa
[14:01:08] <Imperator_> have a Rock shocks Reba now, it has six parameter for tuning :-)
[14:01:19] <alex_joni> heh.. don't know the Reba
[14:01:23] <les> biking very popular here:
[14:01:31] <les> http://www.mountaintravelguide.com/Mountain%20Bike%20Trails/rabun/Rabun%20County%20Bike%20Trails.htm
[14:02:17] <les> I need new tires for my cross trainer
[14:02:23] <les> I need a new body too
[14:03:18] <les> anyway martin very interested in the spindles. will check monday.
[14:03:59] <Imperator_> :-)
[14:04:22] <Imperator_> do you have a controller for them ?
[14:04:25] <A-L-P-H-A> new toys to buy on monday... long 1/8" ground + hardened dowel, and maybe a new 1/8" ream [if I don't have one already
[14:04:27] <A-L-P-H-A> ]
[14:06:20] <Imperator_> this year i want to do a tour across the alps
[14:06:32] <les> oh alpha if you can make the 1/8 a through hole it is much easier
[14:06:44] <les> then you can lap
[14:06:59] <A-L-P-H-A> les, not 6"...
[14:07:12] <les> (hollow shaft)
[14:07:16] <A-L-P-H-A> unless, I'd like making it two pieces, and thread + screw them together.
[14:07:22] <jmkasunich> of course drilling a 6" deep hole that small isn't easy
[14:07:43] <les> well make most of the hole 1/4 or something
[14:07:47] <jmkasunich> does it have to be through, or just 1" or so deeper than required
[14:07:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd love to know how much my EDM guy would do it for.
[14:08:09] <les> through is just for ease of machining
[14:08:19] <les> I do that on the holders
[14:08:39] <les> 1/4" except for last 3/4 near the nose
[14:09:05] <A-L-P-H-A> les, again... this will be at least 4" long.
[14:09:18] <les> heh gun drill.
[14:09:43] <les> they do it with gun barrels np...
[14:10:23] <jmkasunich> just need a 3000psi oil pump, $500 gun drill bit, etc, etc, etc
[14:10:31] <jmkasunich> no problem for a one-off home-made spindle
[14:10:39] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[14:10:55] <les> but I have made some with blind holes too...just a little harder to do.
[14:11:07] <jmkasunich> the lapping is harder?
[14:11:12] <A-L-P-H-A> <--trying to do it on cheap. But with standard home hobby shop tools. I proably more than the average home hobby shop... but still.
[14:11:36] <A-L-P-H-A> probably have
[14:11:36] <les> well an expanding lap can't get to the bottom of the blind hole
[14:11:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm...
[14:11:58] <jmkasunich> right. so how much extra depth to you need
[14:12:37] <les> Mine with blind holes have some problems with the air compressing too if the setscrew has gease on it
[14:12:38] <jmkasunich> cutter shank is probably 1-1/2" max right... if you drilled 2-1/2" deep, would you be able to lap the outer inch and a half?
[14:12:53] <les> put the tool in and boing it shoots out
[14:13:18] <jmkasunich> how does having a setscrew affect balance?
[14:13:23] <les> gease heh...grease
[14:13:41] <les> JMK: yeah
[14:14:18] <les> you need to cut a small dimple on the other side
[14:14:27] <A-L-P-H-A> the bit OAL, is 1.5"
[14:14:43] <les> allen set screw is hollow so yeah balance is off
[14:14:52] <les> not a prob at low rpm
[14:15:20] <A-L-P-H-A> les, why not just make a cut on the exact opposide? and use two set screws?
[14:15:28] <les> It can be calculated using second moments of course
[14:15:55] <les> Alpha: yeah that would work
[14:16:10] <A-L-P-H-A> my lathe has a built in indexer, so I can do that easily.
[14:16:12] <les> but some tools have flats
[14:16:16] <jmkasunich> two set screws isn't as secure as one - they press against each other, rather than pressing the cutter into the precisely lapped ID of the hole
[14:16:24] <les> yes
[14:16:35] <les> and the flat issue
[14:16:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm sure these cutters I'm getting don't have weldon flats.
[14:16:49] <A-L-P-H-A> not for 1/8"
[14:17:45] <les> If the tools are soft shank hss they need some kind of flat or they won't be coming out
[14:17:55] <les> carbide no problem of course
[14:18:06] <A-L-P-H-A> these will be carbide.
[14:18:11] <les> ok
[14:18:14] <les> no worries
[14:18:23] <stevestallings> Hi Dave, you mentioned a Mazak refurb at the CNC Workshop. Your machine?
[14:18:50] <dave-e> no...Roland has a 5 yr newer one. :-)
[14:19:40] <dave-e> I'm not rich enough to transport 4500 Kg of machine 2000 mi one way
[14:21:08] <stevestallings> 8-)
[14:21:30] <alex_joni> * alex_joni leaves for a while
[14:21:33] <les> So the project will be at Roland's place?
[14:21:40] <dave-e> yes
[14:21:43] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7508267859&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores why get these? when you can buy a iscar or like carbide indexable endmill instead for a mere $50 more?
[14:21:53] <les> where is he rockford?
[14:22:15] <dave-e> close to Galesburg....Cameron
[14:22:28] <les> oh ok
[14:22:30] <A-L-P-H-A> dave-e, how much would that cost? $2K? or more?
[14:22:48] <A-L-P-H-A> to move that is.
[14:23:19] <dave-e> well my cost .... load on one end...plus transport from Alberquerque was 1800
[14:23:55] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the machine worth? can it make you money? does it need lots of TLC?
[14:24:27] <A-L-P-H-A> is that CT?
[14:24:27] <les> alpha now you see why I got right on a spiral carbide diamond sharpening rig...those things lasted me 6 hrs in production
[14:24:57] <dave-e> I don't know if it would be a valid commercial machine or not....one a little newer could be.
[14:24:59] <A-L-P-H-A> les? the carbide bits?
[14:25:04] <les> yeah
[14:25:30] <A-L-P-H-A> les, yeah.. carbide is nice... just expensive. carbide inserts aren't any cheaper... but long term, I think they are.
[14:25:46] <dave-e> I did finally get the load meter off zero...... 0.125 x 1.5" cut in 4140 at 20 ipm
[14:25:54] <dave-e> at about 50%
[14:26:00] <les> I get pretty good results with the sharpining
[14:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> les, I have a locale place that does endmill sharpening. I don't think they're that expensive either... $10 a bit.
[14:27:48] <les> yeah it was just a logistical problem for me...now I can do it in the shop in just a few minutes if it is setup
[14:28:18] <les> I did not like paying $10/hr just for edges dulling
[14:28:27] <A-L-P-H-A> les, I was thinking of getting this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506983039&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 but I passed, as I found that other place I showed you. So an extra $15 bucks, I get a wrench. :D
[14:28:37] <A-L-P-H-A> that was what you see is what you get... minus the collet.
[14:29:46] <les> yeah.
[14:30:15] <A-L-P-H-A> shipping wouldn't have been fine either. :/
[14:30:23] <A-L-P-H-A> from the UK.
[14:30:36] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, it's sunny out again.
[14:30:36] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[14:30:51] <les> Anyway Dave...nice project. I don't know if ANY machining center is a valid commercial production tool in the US anymore
[14:31:12] <A-L-P-H-A> 17 right now, with a high of 19! sweet.
[14:31:14] <dave-e> good question
[14:31:41] <les> I need one for prototypes because I find myself making 5 or 10 of things
[14:31:48] <les> but only protos
[14:32:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I got lost.. .what are we making?
[14:32:13] <les> But I have decided that just a series II cnc will do
[14:32:30] <les> would like the tool change of a machining center
[14:32:37] <les> but for protos?
[14:32:44] <les> hard to justify
[14:32:47] <dave-e> should do nicely....if you can get enough spindle speed, etc.
[14:33:33] <les> We are really hurting making stuff on a manual vertical mill
[14:33:46] <les> so have an emc retro planned soon
[14:34:22] <les> put it off a little so we can set aside some shop time to get segmentqueue fully debugged
[14:34:32] <dave-e> some things are just hard to do on a manual machine
[14:34:36] <les> That seems most important short term
[14:36:42] <les> I must very quickly wire up a bigger servo supply for that testing as we up the speeds a bunch
[14:36:51] <les> current one will voltage sag
[14:37:14] <dave-e> I still think the tp needs the ability to handle 2nd or 3rd order equ the same way it does g2 and g3
[14:37:31] <les> yes
[14:37:47] <dave-e> that would solve a lot of problems
[14:38:08] <les> I have to say at the speed and accel I need these days segmentqueue simply MUST work
[14:38:25] <les> I cannot use the old tp any longer.
[14:38:30] <dave-e> what is your accel goal
[14:39:03] <les> Always as low as will do the job...but .5g is often needed
[14:39:24] <dave-e> that is pretty hefty with any weight
[14:39:41] <les> now MAX_ACCEL is usually in inches /sec^2
[14:40:10] <dave-e> which makes the 2-20 range pretty low
[14:40:12] <les> most can't go past 30 with the old TP
[14:40:27] <dave-e> I'm using 20 but not pushing it
[14:40:36] <les> .5 g is about 190 or so
[14:40:41] <dave-e> yep
[14:40:57] <les> And yes my machine can easily do that if needed
[14:41:20] <dave-e> I got my exp bench test servo to 400 but that is only a flywheel..
[14:41:22] <les> scary to watch
[14:41:45] <dave-e> you don't want to be in the way
[14:41:50] <les> heh
[14:43:51] <les> Just imagine if your income was directly related to how fast a machine goes
[14:44:10] <les> well it is with me...so FASTER!
[14:47:40] <les> well...need to go out plowing some but waiting for it to warm up
[14:47:57] <les> should be 75f today but it was 32 at dawn
[14:48:16] <dave-e> alpha...it is about 6 right now but going to 20...no fans this morning so it must not have gotten to zero
[14:48:30] <dave-e> we are in a fruit producing area
[14:48:36] <les> right
[14:49:01] <les> when oranges were in north florida they did that
[14:49:41] <dave-e> we still have both pots and fans....about half of the pots are propane and the rest diesel
[14:49:41] <les> not anymore.
[14:49:55] <les> climate changed and they were all destroyed
[14:50:04] <dave-e> we have another month before we go frost free
[14:50:32] <les> may 5 is used here
[14:50:43] <pfred1> cinco de mayo?
[14:50:46] <les> pretty cold for this far south
[14:50:49] <les> heh
[14:51:05] <les> I think today ray will be warmer than us down here
[14:51:18] <pfred1> it's getting warm here
[14:51:18] <dave-e> now that is a change
[14:51:35] <pfred1> Feels Like
[14:51:35] <pfred1> 71�F
[14:51:53] <pfred1> I just got back from a nice exhausting bike ride
[14:51:56] <les> The altitude and the cold air damming phenomenon make it colder here
[14:51:59] <pfred1> man I'm flipping old!
[14:52:03] <les> heh
[14:52:22] <pfred1> old women were just about passing me on their walkers i swear!
[14:52:30] <dave-e> yeh right
[14:52:54] <pfred1> well it wasn't that bad but some punk kid on his 10 speed did pass me on my slow assed mountain bike
[14:52:58] <dave-e> you picked the wrong route...you are supposed to go downhill
[14:53:06] <les> The gears get higher and higher
[14:53:16] <pfred1> man them mountain bikes don't evne go very fast downhill
[14:53:25] <pfred1> it's the tires they're so fat
[14:53:26] <les> till you are at tricycle speed
[14:53:35] <pfred1> and the ones on the bike rim they're fat too!
[14:53:53] <pfred1> * pfred1 looks at his spare tire ...
[14:54:10] <dave-e> go with a 21 speed touring if you can keep the tires up.
[14:54:10] <les> I have to watch it here...can get going too fast on a downgrade
[14:54:22] <dave-e> what is too fast
[14:54:42] <pfred1> dave-e when the front forks crumble and you're eating pavement
[14:54:46] <les> 40 or 50
[14:54:49] <dave-e> indeed
[14:55:04] <les> gets unstable
[14:55:12] <dave-e> steep hills then
[14:55:26] <pfred1> les when I was a kid I used to be pretty crazy about biking
[14:55:38] <dave-e> it is usually difficult to get over 35.
[14:55:41] <les> The stonewall falls mountain bike loop goes right by my house and is nasty
[14:56:04] <pfred1> actually when you're going really fast bikes seem very stable due to the gyroscopic action of the tires
[14:56:32] <dave-e> on smooth pavement ... yes
[14:56:32] <les> Mine gets unstable above about 30
[14:56:32] <pfred1> when you can't turn them that's when yo uknow you're moving right along
[14:56:51] <pfred1> yeah i can't go that fast on my bike i have now
[14:57:34] <pfred1> that's the thing tho the roads suck so badly here anymore you need an offroad bike just to bike on road
[14:57:39] <les> anyway I need new tires so can't ride
[14:57:46] <pfred1> les Walmart
[14:58:09] <pfred1> unless you got something strange like sewups
[14:58:13] <les> no bike shops here and I don't have time to mess with it myself
[14:58:18] <les> no not sewups
[14:58:26] <les> brb phone
[14:58:31] <pfred1> I just put new tires onto my garden cart
[14:58:56] <dave-e> pfred1...where are you
[14:58:59] <pfred1> les stylin!
[14:59:19] <pfred1> dave-e right now in between New Jersey and Delaware
[14:59:27] <pfred1> dig them white walls huh?
[14:59:35] <dave-e> almost at sea level
[14:59:40] <pfred1> was the only tires in the size i needed
[14:59:44] <pfred1> nah here it's 945 above
[14:59:52] <pfred1> there it's like 44 above
[14:59:59] <dave-e> I'm at about 1400
[15:00:23] <dave-e> but the river is about 900
[15:01:15] <pfred1> yeah I'm looking forward to it being very flat
[15:01:29] <pfred1> every little hill now I'm like *groan*
[15:01:51] <jmkasunich> anybody know how much disk BDI-4.20 needs once you download everything that is needed to build EMC?
[15:02:18] <pfred1> jmkasunich EMC is part of BDI right?
[15:02:23] <dave-e> much better than Pullman, WA.....Wash St U....built on a hill and the only place in the world where you go uphill all the way around the block
[15:02:37] <jmkasunich> yes... but I want to recompile it
[15:02:50] <jmkasunich> (actually this is for the compile farm)
[15:03:10] <pfred1> jmkasunich oh so you want all of BDI in sourcecode form?
[15:03:15] <pfred1> which would include EMC
[15:03:19] <jmkasunich> no
[15:03:21] <pfred1> no?
[15:03:34] <jmkasunich> I just want to be able to do a CVS checkout and then run "./configure
[15:03:47] <jmkasunich> "./configure" and "make"
[15:03:54] <pfred1> hmmm
[15:04:05] <pfred1> in a chrooted environment?
[15:04:12] <jmkasunich> no, on another box
[15:04:21] <pfred1> being as if you had nothing you wouldn't have a command intrepreter
[15:04:27] <pfred1> hmmm
[15:04:41] <jmkasunich> I intend to do a BDI-4.20 install on the other box
[15:04:49] <jmkasunich> but that isn't enough to compile EMC
[15:04:50] <pfred1> but this "other box" would have some sort of an OS installed?
[15:04:55] <pfred1> OK
[15:04:58] <jmkasunich> so I have to download additional packages
[15:05:08] <pfred1> why can't BDI-4.20 compile EMC?
[15:05:34] <pfred1> it's missing dev packages?
[15:05:40] <jmkasunich> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install
[15:05:57] <jmkasunich> read that (at least the first paragraphs
[15:06:24] <pfred1> yes like i said it's missing dev packages
[15:06:52] <pfred1> jmkasunich dev packages are usually fairly small
[15:07:01] <jmkasunich> I was just asking if anybody knew how much disk is used once you download all the dev packages that are needed
[15:07:03] <pfred1> few header files maybe
[15:07:13] <jmkasunich> I have a 2.55G disk on the box I'm thinking of using
[15:07:42] <pfred1> jmkasunich well you're going to do it evnetually regardless right?
[15:07:53] <pfred1> so just start downloading when you're done do du -h
[15:08:02] <pfred1> then you'll know!
[15:08:07] <alex_joni> 2.55 should fit easily
[15:08:09] <jmkasunich> and if it doesn't fit I have to start all over on another box
[15:08:15] <pfred1> nah
[15:08:24] <alex_joni> I think standard install is about < 1G
[15:08:41] <jmkasunich> thanks alex - that's what I needed to know
[15:09:04] <pfred1> jmkasunich you have the ISO for BDI-4 right?
[15:09:05] <alex_joni> but don't bet your life on it ;)
[15:09:27] <jmkasunich> pfred: yes, burned onto CD already
[15:09:48] <pfred1> jmkasunich with enough disc space you don't evne need to burn them
[15:09:59] <pfred1> you can mount them on a loopback install that way
[15:10:15] <jmkasunich> pfred: I'm starting with a blank hard disk
[15:10:23] <jmkasunich> kinda hard to do a loopback
[15:10:36] <pfred1> jmkasunich no it isn't
[15:10:52] <jmkasunich> 'splain it to me
[15:11:11] <pfred1> could use any removable media distro
[15:11:53] <jmkasunich> like a Live CD you mean?
[15:12:05] <pfred1> jmkasunich don't matter tho doesn't sould liek you have the HDD space to do it anyways I wonder if yo ucould do it over NFS?
[15:12:21] <pfred1> jmkasunich I like Tom's RTBT floppy but sure knopppix whatever
[15:12:30] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna do it the old fashioned way:
[15:12:39] <jmkasunich> step 1 hook a CDROM drive to the box
[15:12:49] <pfred1> jmkasunich yeah it's easiest costs a CD tho
[15:12:52] <jmkasunich> step 2 config the bios to recognise the CDROM
[15:13:02] <jmkasunich> step 3 stick the BDI-4.20 CD in the box
[15:13:13] <pfred1> jmkasunich when you got as many Linux distros as i do hanging around on CDs you start to think about these htings
[15:13:15] <jmkasunich> step 4 reboot and follow the fscking instructions
[15:13:56] <alex_joni> repeat step 3 and 4 untill the distro is installed :D
[15:14:13] <jmkasunich> or until frustrated
[15:14:25] <jmkasunich> that's what happened when I tried to install it on a SCSI box
[15:14:25] <alex_joni> sometimes you want to try with a different distro.. if it doesn't work :D
[15:14:31] <pfred1> jmkasunich take careful notes in a file in case things don't work out as some step that way yo ucan recover quickly and if you ever need to do it again it's scriptable
[15:14:46] <pfred1> like every command you issue paste it onto a file too
[15:15:05] <alex_joni> pfred1: don't think jmk is planning on making large clusters running emc (like 10+ boxes)
[15:15:06] <alex_joni> :D
[15:15:26] <pfred1> then if it all blows up at some point yo ucan just zip back to that point and take it from there
[15:15:26] <pfred1> alex_joni it's the first one that's always the hardest
[15:15:28] <jmkasunich> I have a 4 box cluster, but every box is running a different distro
[15:15:42] <jmkasunich> that's the whole point of the cluster
[15:15:53] <alex_joni> yeah.. but usually it stays that way (at only one installed) ;)
[15:16:00] <pfred1> alex_joni I've done a few complex installs and find that just saving the commands helps a lot towards eventually getting it done someday
[15:16:36] <pfred1> alex_joni the trick is to get it to the it's installed state!
[15:16:56] <pfred1> not everything goes off without a hitch
[15:17:15] <pfred1> actually hardly anything complicated ever goes smoothly
[15:18:52] <pfred1> like what if he gets all done and wants to use another C compiler someday to see what the difference is?
[15:20:27] <pfred1> hmm time to shrink this rip a little bit more
[15:29:58] <alex_joni> pretty quiet today
[15:30:14] <pfred1> yeah silence is golden
[15:30:24] <alex_joni> yeah.. give me some of that ;)
[15:30:30] <pfred1> * pfred1 picks up his guitar ...
[15:31:23] <pfred1> damn i am good if this rip comes in where it says it's going to
[15:32:34] <jmkasunich> well that was a short install
[15:32:47] <jmkasunich> POST finishes, it reads the cdrom, and reboots
[15:33:13] <alex_joni> hmmm.. not exactly what you would expect ,)
[15:33:26] <jmkasunich> no... fscking annoying I tell you!
[15:33:56] <alex_joni> remember the old chinese wisdom
[15:34:03] <alex_joni> never touch a running system ;)
[15:34:39] <pfred1> ancient chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times ..."
[15:34:50] <alex_joni> lol
[15:34:52] <alex_joni> nice one
[15:34:58] <alex_joni> jmk: familiar with LOTUS?
[15:35:01] <alex_joni> :))
[15:35:22] <alex_joni> Let Only The User Suffer
[15:35:36] <pfred1> 8 minutes til reencode done I am so excited!
[15:35:38] <jmkasunich> in this case, it wasn't a running system
[15:35:48] <jmkasunich> virginal even
[15:35:51] <alex_joni> well.. then LOTUS it is
[15:35:51] <alex_joni> ;)
[15:35:58] <jmkasunich> (well, actually ancient, but wiped clean)
[15:36:25] <jmkasunich> BDI-TNG cdrom loads just fine, comes up with a boot prompt
[15:37:47] <alex_joni> how about Live?
[15:38:02] <jmkasunich> dunno
[15:38:22] <jmkasunich> I just tried TNG to make sure the CDROM drive was OK, and the bios was correctly booting from it
[15:38:52] <les> I prob ought to buy some quicker boxes for shop emc If I am going to be upping the servo rates
[15:39:18] <les> quicker...cheap...isa?
[15:39:30] <pfred1> les could design some pulse multipliers or something :)
[15:39:37] <pfred1> the 10X box
[15:39:41] <les> heh
[15:39:50] <les> i did one simple one.
[15:40:25] <les> I am sometimes accused of circuit design
[15:40:29] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prods paul_c
[15:40:46] <les> I prefer to call it "tying together ap notes"
[15:41:06] <pfred1> or data sheets
[15:41:20] <les> heh yup
[15:41:28] <pfred1> man the Internet is great for them things I got a whole shelf of the books here never use them anymore
[15:41:38] <pfred1> spent a fortune on them back in the day too
[15:41:44] <les> yeah
[15:41:52] <les> still have lots of books
[15:41:53] <pfred1> was like a sickness to collect them
[15:42:07] <pfred1> I have to have every data sheet for every chip ever made!
[15:42:08] <les> making some more bookshelves in fact dor the office
[15:42:20] <pfred1> man yesterday I could have almost cried
[15:42:25] <pfred1> I went ot the town dumps here
[15:42:40] <pfred1> and there was literally at least a ton of versa angle someone had tossed out
[15:42:43] <les> well books are still quicker than pdfs usually
[15:42:48] <les> if you have the room
[15:43:12] <pfred1> that stuff is insta shelving
[15:43:22] <les> was it all bent up?
[15:43:47] <pfred1> nope not when i saw it when they hit it with the front end loader I'm sure it took a beaitng then
[15:44:00] <pfred1> but i just can't pick stuff like that up right now i got so much to move now!
[15:44:10] <pfred1> OOK OK I'll admit it I picked up a 4 foot section
[15:44:11] <les> These are for my little business office so they need to be fancy.
[15:44:21] <les> Woodworking customers come in
[15:44:45] <pfred1> home depot just has nice jointed up shelves on sale $4 a shelf
[15:45:24] <pfred1> well they weren't that nice but nice enough
[15:45:24] <les> no planks and cinder blocks heh
[15:45:24] <les> Well I am designing these up real quick in autocad
[15:45:45] <les> curly maple and figured avodire or walnut
[15:45:50] <pfred1> I'm making a bookcase for my upstairs hallway eventually when i get the time got the materials already
[15:45:55] <pfred1> nah #2 pine here
[15:46:01] <les> This is a rare case where I will use veneer
[15:46:02] <pfred1> and them on sale shelves
[15:46:20] <pfred1> well that's how the big boys do it furniture grade plywood
[15:46:27] <les> veneer over poplar core
[15:46:30] <pfred1> stable and flat and dimensionally right
[15:46:56] <les> poplar is an ideal wood....light but good specific stiffness
[15:47:11] <pfred1> bit soft
[15:47:49] <pfred1> works nicely though
[15:47:49] <les> will use 1.5x 15 for the cores
[15:47:49] <les> vacuum veneered
[15:48:15] <les> I need two... 48"x about 84
[15:48:53] <les> about 100 bd ft
[15:49:27] <les> all filled with engineering books
[15:49:43] <pfred1> going to make barrister bookcase?
[15:49:48] <pfred1> you know enclosed with glass doors?
[15:49:53] <pfred1> :)
[15:49:55] <les> thought about it
[15:50:00] <pfred1> yeah they are nice
[15:50:09] <les> thought about that as a product
[15:50:18] <pfred1> yeah modular ones stackable
[15:50:22] <pfred1> suck them in!
[15:50:23] <les> but the chinese ones are so cheap....
[15:50:42] <pfred1> bet you can't buy just one ...
[15:51:06] <pfred1> yeah no one wants to pay for quality today
[15:51:10] <les> chinese= rubber tree wood and $250 for four
[15:51:12] <pfred1> I sure know i don't
[15:51:23] <les> mine would cost 4 times as much
[15:51:47] <pfred1> Ikea disposable furnishings
[15:51:47] <les> right no one will pay for quality in a bookshelf...true
[15:52:07] <les> which Is why I don't carry them
[15:52:19] <les> even though it would tool up nicelly for cnc
[15:52:24] <pfred1> well the right people will but there's just too few of those
[15:52:47] <les> but then you are up against antiques
[15:52:51] <les> like globe
[15:52:53] <pfred1> check this out on the way down to my country house i stop at this flea market
[15:52:56] <les> I have some
[15:53:04] <pfred1> and well I'm getting to know the vendors there
[15:53:08] <les> they often sell for around $1000
[15:53:16] <pfred1> there's this one guy that goes there i call him the going out of business guy
[15:53:25] <pfred1> he comes in one of them cube trucks every week
[15:53:36] <pfred1> and every week he has the contents of cleanouts i guess
[15:53:48] <pfred1> like everything someone owned and got evicted
[15:54:04] <pfred1> so you get to see all someone's worldly possessions their furniture everything
[15:54:08] <pfred1> and man it's all such crap!
[15:54:17] <pfred1> it's no wonder people just pick up and leave the stuff
[15:54:33] <les> well 60% of the market is chinese stuff
[15:55:01] <les> I go into retail outlets like babcock and ikea some to check it out
[15:55:19] <les> it surely is crap.
[15:55:29] <pfred1> you're high class i go to like national wholesale liquidators or walmart
[15:55:36] <les> well ok not crap...
[15:55:39] <les> firewood?
[15:56:07] <pfred1> you can't burn that stuff it's particleboard
[15:56:16] <les> I'm not all that high class...it is just the only market I can even consider here
[15:56:30] <pfred1> and that laminate what the hell is that laminate they put on it?
[15:56:42] <les> I do like nice woodwork
[15:57:02] <pfred1> I like to woodwork
[15:57:07] <les> I started off making guitars so I like that level of craftsmanship
[15:57:10] <pfred1> sometomes it comes out OK
[15:57:23] <pfred1> I like to do rough stuff lots too though
[15:57:42] <pfred1> I find it to be more relaxing
[15:57:51] <pfred1> than worring about every cut
[15:58:05] <les> yeah
[15:58:12] <les> well some are easy
[15:58:17] <pfred1> orbital sanders go a long ways towards making things look like you know how to measure i have found
[15:58:28] <les> that inlayed fancy call is increadably easy to make
[15:58:42] <pfred1> technique is everything
[15:58:44] <les> oops
[15:59:10] <les> that inlay pattern on the edge....
[15:59:38] <les> is just strips of different wood coopered up into a tube like a barrel
[15:59:54] <pfred1> I met a professional barrel maker once
[16:00:00] <les> just slice em off with the band saw
[16:00:02] <pfred1> man he had some gadgets to make them barrels
[16:00:20] <pfred1> this big pneumatic clamp deal to put all the staves together
[16:00:29] <pfred1> he could bang out them barrels
[16:00:44] <alex_joni> any SF admins around?
[16:00:47] <alex_joni> jmk: you there?
[16:01:48] <alex_joni> never mind.. I saw that I could do it myself
[16:06:53] <les> pretty quiet...everyone is outside I guess...I think I will go out as well.
[16:07:52] <pfred1> nah just doing something
[16:08:04] <jmkasunich> alex: yes I'm here
[16:08:29] <les> Would hit the wallmart garden shop but not until the flu goes away
[16:08:33] <les> no shots here
[16:09:01] <pfred1> oh gawd just do what i do don't open doors where everyone else touches them don't touch yourself til you purell
[16:10:50] <alex_joni> jmk: needed a new category for bug reports, but I was allowed to add it myself
[16:11:01] <pfred1> 703M Apr 17 13:23 ButterflyEffect4.avi
[16:11:04] <pfred1> a work of art!
[16:13:29] <alex_joni> nice movie
[16:13:49] <alex_joni> the concept of the butterfly effect gets you thinking :D
[16:14:21] <paul_c> alex_joni: mini is NOT a BDI bug
[16:14:39] <paul_c> nor do BDI bug reports go through SF
[16:17:16] <alex_joni> well.. change it accordingly
[16:18:10] <paul_c> can NOT delete a group once it has been added.
[16:18:39] <alex_joni> why shouldn't BDI go through SF?
[16:18:45] <paul_c> and you certainly do NOT assign who gets the bugs
[16:18:54] <alex_joni> I didn't
[16:19:15] <alex_joni> I might have added you for BDI overall
[16:19:21] <alex_joni> sorry bout that
[16:21:38] <jmkasunich> bug catagories cannot be deleted, but they can be renamed
[16:21:49] <jmkasunich> so what new catagory do we need? ;-)
[16:22:21] <paul_c> GUI bugs would have covered it.
[16:22:35] <alex_joni> is it emc2?
[16:22:38] <jmkasunich> right, and alex can change the category of that report
[16:22:55] <jmkasunich> is your bug emc1 or 2?
[16:22:55] <alex_joni> I already did
[16:23:12] <alex_joni> it's not evenmy bug-report (I just submitted it)
[16:23:27] <alex_joni> it's bdi-4.20 (so I guess it's emc1)
[16:23:38] <jmkasunich> yes
[16:24:00] <jmkasunich> there isn't (at present) a complete set of catagories for emc1, just one catchall
[16:24:10] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll change it to that
[16:24:34] <jmkasunich> Paul objects to the existance of a BDI category, so we need to rename that to something else
[16:26:06] <alex_joni> ok... emc2 or emc1 related?
[16:26:28] <jmkasunich> dunno... we already have a pretty complete list of emc2 related catagories
[16:27:36] <alex_joni> how about EMC2 IO ?
[16:27:36] <alex_joni> IO Controller even
[16:27:36] <jmkasunich> OK by me
[16:27:37] <jmkasunich> I'll make the change
[16:28:02] <jmkasunich> you want them auto-assigned to you?
[16:28:10] <jmkasunich> or nobody?
[16:28:14] <alex_joni> I don't mind
[16:28:57] <jmkasunich> done
[16:28:57] <alex_joni> ok
[16:32:27] <alex_joni> hey an0n
[16:34:23] <anonimasu> hey
[16:34:24] <anonimasu> :)
[16:34:39] <alex_joni> what's new?
[16:34:43] <anonimasu> not much
[16:34:46] <anonimasu> got my car back togther
[16:34:51] <alex_joni> nice
[16:34:59] <alex_joni> I got my bike out of the attic
[16:35:26] <anonimasu> installed a piggyback box.. so I can modify with the fuel system as I wish
[16:35:27] <anonimasu> :)
[16:35:50] <anonimasu> s/fuel/fuel&ignition
[16:35:50] <alex_joni> running on wood soon?
[16:35:57] <anonimasu> wood?
[16:36:02] <alex_joni> maybe steam?
[16:36:04] <anonimasu> lol
[16:36:19] <anonimasu> ethanol if anything.. or 98 octane ;)
[16:36:19] <alex_joni> heh
[16:36:32] <alex_joni> nice
[16:37:00] <anonimasu> yeah, cant wait until I get the new fuel pump in place and a couple of new injectors..
[16:42:27] <anonimasu> what's up with you?
[16:43:11] <alex_joni> nuttin
[16:43:57] <anonimasu> ok
[16:55:20] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ is playing with doxygen
[17:09:49] <anonimasu> i'll be back later
[17:09:49] <anonimasu> :)
[17:11:48] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[17:11:50] <alex_joni> night guys
[17:38:53] <paul_c> * paul_c ponders on waht docs to pack...
[17:52:23] <les> just leave room to take goodies back heh
[17:53:33] <paul_c> Got a couple of CNC manuals printed out...
[17:53:58] <Jymmm> you're taking dead tree's with you?
[17:54:03] <paul_c> then there is the library - Do I bring al of it, or just the basics..
[17:54:08] <les> hmmm paper is heavier than a couple cdrs
[17:54:19] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands paul_c DVD-RW
[17:54:51] <paul_c> paper can be thumbed through on the plane.
[17:55:11] <les> yeah.
[17:55:20] <Jymmm> paul_c PGDN
[17:55:38] <les> laptops are good but they get obsolete so FAST
[17:55:46] <paul_c> and it's not so easy to use a highlighting pen on a pdf
[17:56:00] <les> yeah
[17:56:10] <Jymmm> paul_c Actually.... PDF does have a highlighrt
[17:56:22] <les> I still scribble a bit on peper when beginning a design
[17:56:27] <les> them cad
[17:56:32] <les> then
[17:56:48] <les> by the time its going on cad it is already designed
[17:56:49] <Jymmm> drawing on paper is fine, but manuals?!
[17:56:57] <paul_c> can also light fires with paper.
[17:57:16] <Jymmm> paul_c you silly goose... you use matches to light fires =)
[17:57:17] <les> don't you try lighting shoes now
[17:58:14] <les> I have to have a really big bonfire soon
[17:58:25] <Jymmm> paul_c : Have you had any furstrations using your sherline by chance?
[17:58:47] <les> have a bunch of small trees and shrubs to remove to begin the golf course layout
[17:58:59] <les> (only 2 holes)
[17:59:17] <Jymmm> les go wild! have three holes!
[17:59:22] <Jymmm> par 42
[17:59:27] <les> heh
[17:59:53] <les> no just a par 4 and par three here near the house with the unused pasture in the back
[18:00:01] <paul_c> * paul_c fails to see the point in playing marbles with sticks.
[18:00:05] <Jymmm> what, no cows involved?
[18:00:19] <les> having livestock is silly.for livestock you need fertilizer
[18:00:25] <les> and that means oil
[18:00:36] <les> so it is just turning oil into meat
[18:00:39] <les> bad deal
[18:00:44] <Jymmm> les make a methanol factory
[18:00:55] <les> heh
[18:02:42] <Jymmm> paul_c have you made any PCB's on your sherline?
[18:03:18] <paul_c> nope - Use a PCB house for that.
[18:04:57] <Jymmm> I just think having the ability is appealing
[18:05:25] <Jymmm> something breaks on friday, you can create a new one and save a week or two
[18:07:27] <jmkasunich> Jymm: milling PCBs limits you to low density, 2 layer, with no plated thru holes
[18:08:43] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Soem of the stuff I want is very simple, so really not a biggy in that respect.
[18:09:13] <Imperator_> * Imperator_ wounders why flights to fest are now 100EUR more expensive then last week
[18:09:20] <jmkasunich> getting closer
[18:09:53] <robin_z> * robin_z tries to figure out whether you guys are talkign golf or women
[18:10:08] <Imperator_> so two weeks before you get last minute prices, and a week before you must pay extra
[18:10:09] <jmkasunich> the people most likely to buy tickets at the last minute are business folks who must make a trip, so the airlines charge more
[18:10:20] <robin_z> <les> (only 2 holes)
[18:10:20] <robin_z> <Jymmm> les go wild! have three holes!
[18:10:22] <Imperator_> :-)
[18:10:44] <Jymmm> robin_z is there a difference?
[18:10:53] <robin_z> yeah,
[18:10:57] <Jymmm> robin_z : sticks, balls, holes
[18:11:22] <robin_z> if you find your women have "sticks" and balls ... you have a BIG problem
[18:11:56] <jmkasunich> women and golf courses have holes. men and golfers have sticks and balls
[18:12:21] <Imperator_> :-D
[18:12:25] <Jymmm> and you clean your balls before goin on to the next hole
[18:13:46] <paul_c> Imperator_: How much were flights last week ?
[18:14:06] <Imperator_> 400 EUR now 480 EUR
[18:14:15] <robin_z> oh that reminds me ...
[18:14:21] <paul_c> what dates ?
[18:14:35] <robin_z> is the working segmot stuff placed under GPL?
[18:15:21] <Imperator_> 24.4 -> 8.5.
[18:16:24] <Imperator_> but now with Lufthansa, last week the cheapes was United Airlines ( -> never come back airline )
[18:18:11] <paul_c> If you go 22.4 & return 5.5.... 398Eur
[18:18:21] <robin_z> or was all the mods to make segmot work just released PD??
[18:18:42] <robin_z> SF was down earlier when I tried to check
[18:19:11] <paul_c> or return on the 9th for 405Eur
[18:19:34] <paul_c> Avoid Sat/Sun flights - They get expensive.
[18:19:51] <Imperator_> ah, good to know
[18:20:12] <Imperator_> thought the oposite is true
[18:20:27] <paul_c> mid week flights are always cheaper.
[19:05:09] <les> awhawhaw <sob>
[19:05:18] <les> I cannot stop laughing
[19:05:26] <les> post that link robin
[19:06:21] <Phydbleep> Hysteria? You realized that we're all subject to the whims of a group that make Napoleon look sane?
[19:07:03] <les> oh robin's awa y cough hawhaw Iwill post it.
[19:07:14] <les> http://www.ietto.net/airport.html
[19:07:21] <les> gasp Haw Haw
[19:08:22] <les> listen to the .wavs
[19:11:23] <Phydbleep> ROFL.. That's evil.. I like it. :)
[19:11:32] <les> heh cough
[19:12:29] <les> It didn't hit me till I listened to the actual .wavs recorded at Heathrow and Gatwick
[19:17:33] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep gives up on trying to view the images in les's patent because the load average on this machine spikes to >5...
[19:18:10] <les> yeah USPTO is dog slow
[19:18:18] <les> delphion is better
[19:18:23] <Jymmm> always is anymore
[19:19:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been using http://www.freepatentsonline.com
[19:19:47] <les> oh
[19:20:13] <les> I use delphion most of the time. You have to register though.
[19:20:29] <les> Very handy for cursory seaches though
[19:20:32] <Phydbleep> Not for that link, just in general.. I like being able to download a pdf of the patent.
[19:21:02] <les> It's always the first check after every harebrain Idea I have.
[19:21:14] <Jymmm> les why?
[19:21:45] <Phydbleep> To see how many others have had the same hare-brained scheme?
[19:21:51] <Jymmm> lol
[19:22:03] <les> for 20+ years My job has been to develop new technology. Most things I think of have already been done!
[19:22:45] <les> so I just think of lots of stuff...one slips through the cracks every now and then
[19:23:39] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has spent 20+ years perverting old technology and points out that les is right and there are power attachments for everything now..
[19:23:55] <les> heh
[19:28:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if ChanServ understands !seen or !lastspoke.
[19:29:15] <Phydbleep> !lastspoke cradek
[19:29:34] <Phydbleep> Nope.. Rats.. :(
[19:32:39] <jmkasunich> watcher would do that, but "he" hasn't been around much lately
[19:33:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, see what nickserve can do.
[19:33:53] <A-L-P-H-A> only works for registered users though
[19:34:46] <A-L-P-H-A> nope. finger won't work here.
[19:34:48] <A-L-P-H-A> oh ohwell. :)
[19:36:08] <Phydbleep> Hey, Watch it.. How do I know (Or do I even want to) know where that finger has been?
[19:36:30] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A sniffs his finger.
[19:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> hey! it smells like pooh.
[19:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder who's pooh... maybe it's mine. or someone elses?
[19:38:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thinks that with the current style of "Adult Entertainment" coming out of certain websites that "The Book of Pooh" is an unfortunate name for a childrens program..
[19:40:04] <paul_c> http://www.mek.iif.hu/kiallit/lenard/irasok/winniepu/winniepu.html
[19:40:24] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[19:40:27] <A-L-P-H-A> book of scat.
[19:40:28] <A-L-P-H-A> eeew.
[19:40:30] <A-L-P-H-A> so gross
[19:41:31] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep want's another copy of "Pooh goes Apeshit by A.A. Meeting".... ROFL funny..
[19:43:26] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: http://www.turoks.net/Cabana/PoohGoesApeshit.htm
[19:43:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll read that in a bit.
[19:45:24] <Phydbleep> Don't read it to the kids. :)
[19:45:33] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- doesn't have kids.
[19:47:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has one... But at 3-1/2 she likes anime, SouthPark, is addicted to Teen-Titans and has hit the age where farts are hilarious..
[19:48:04] <A-L-P-H-A> you're raising a tomboy.
[19:48:58] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is expecting a personality type that more resembles Radical Edward from Cowboy Bebop..
[19:49:08] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahah
[19:49:12] <A-L-P-H-A> Edward is a tom boy as well.
[19:49:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm refraining from parenting comments.
[19:50:16] <Phydbleep> It's a good thing she was born and named before I saw that, otherwise there would have been a fight. :)
[19:51:13] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: You have no kids, The only comment you are allowed to make is "Other peoples kids are the best argument for birth-control". :)
[19:51:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I almost had a kid. I was stressing out, and loosing hair over that fact.
[19:52:01] <A-L-P-H-A> run my hand through my hair... 10 would fall out.
[19:52:09] <A-L-P-H-A> run it through again, another 8.
[19:52:15] <A-L-P-H-A> I stopped after that.
[19:52:50] <Phydbleep> Having sex? Or combing your hair?
[19:52:54] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... :)
[19:53:21] <A-L-P-H-A> having sex. I started comb my hair again after she wasn't.
[19:53:37] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[19:54:11] <A-L-P-H-A> exGF btw.
[19:54:34] <Phydbleep> Ah... Trouble. :)
[19:55:04] <A-L-P-H-A> new topic. :) lets not discuss my sex life, there lack of, in public...
[19:56:21] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. I wasn't the one who mentioned it first. :)
[19:56:54] <A-L-P-H-A> sohey! look... over there.. something shiney.
[19:56:55] <Phydbleep> You could have just said you stopped combing. :)
[19:57:30] <Phydbleep> Oohhh.. Donuts!
[20:01:52] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What are you set up to machine?
[20:02:29] <A-L-P-H-A> pardon?
[20:03:00] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a schaublin 102 CNC'd retrofitted lathe. and a chinese 26x7x4 CNCd mill.
[20:03:33] <Phydbleep> What the accuracy on the Chinese unit?
[20:03:37] <Phydbleep> Whats
[20:03:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I redid the X and Y axis with rolled ball screws.
[20:04:20] <A-L-P-H-A> so 0.003" to 0.008" non accumulating error. [whatever that means]
[20:04:33] <A-L-P-H-A> the schaublin is very accurate. :D
[20:04:57] <A-L-P-H-A> backlash on the mill is 0.002" or X, and 0.0005" on the Y.
[20:05:24] <Phydbleep> So.. ~ 0.01" with repeatability.
[20:05:49] <A-L-P-H-A> probably better than that... but I haven't done too much with the mill.
[20:06:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs some pc boards milled..
[20:06:45] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, I can mill PBC's pretty easily... I do when I prototype stuff.
[20:07:16] <pfred1> why doesn't anyone etch?
[20:07:28] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What part of the world are you in?
[20:07:33] <pfred1> takes like 2 minutes to etch a board
[20:07:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Canada.
[20:07:59] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, I mask, drill, and then etch.
[20:08:28] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Chemical sensitivity.. The photo-resist really wreaks havok on my brain chemistry..
[20:09:46] <Phydbleep> And I use gloves and ventilation.. Really sucks to get a 9 day migraine. :\
[20:10:18] <pfred1> I just use the iron on stuff and you're not even going to approach the trace size of that with milling
[20:11:09] <Phydbleep> I'm working with DIP packages and power cicuits.. Thin traces are a no-no. :)
[20:11:12] <pfred1> I haven't had to do a photo board yet
[20:11:36] <pfred1> yeah why do you need photo resist then?
[20:12:30] <Phydbleep> I had access to all the stuff for free..The iron on stuff is $5 sheet (in a 20 pack) around here..
[20:12:49] <pfred1> ah I've heard people use glossy magazine pages
[20:12:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I do laser toner on photo paper -> iron -> etch
[20:12:59] <pfred1> tho i do use the PNP blue right now
[20:13:22] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
[20:13:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I get 0.010" traces without much issue.
[20:13:56] <pfred1> I get a lot of boards out of a sheet
[20:13:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I like using bigger traces though.
[20:14:16] <pfred1> what i do is run through plain paper then put sheet onto paper cut out what i need schotch tape it on run through again
[20:14:35] <pfred1> laser printers are amazingly accurate
[20:14:49] <pfred1> 600DPI is pretty well pretty close stuff
[20:16:00] <pfred1> Phydbleep these traces big enough for you?
[20:16:16] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What would you want to turn out some prototype encoder boards? 50mm x 50mm double sided.. and some 15mm x 100mm for the data aggregators.
[20:16:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.. double sided is a pain... :/
[20:17:10] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A there's a trick to it
[20:17:20] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1? and it's?
[20:17:28] <Phydbleep> That's why I was saying mill.. Index it all off of one of the through holes.
[20:17:37] <A-L-P-H-A> oh I see.
[20:17:46] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, could do that.
[20:18:19] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs a E size plotter that has a Dremel instead of a pen..
[20:18:27] <A-L-P-H-A> drill, match both sides, iron both sides, etch.
[20:18:30] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A oh you make an envelope out of the iron on stuff with 2 registration holes
[20:18:37] <pfred1> put board in envelope iron away
[20:19:08] <pfred1> but there's board houses that do small runs
[20:19:12] <pfred1> you can't compete with them
[20:19:22] <A-L-P-H-A> probably not.
[20:19:24] <pfred1> they even put in vias and everything
[20:19:30] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Do you have encoders on your leadscews?
[20:19:39] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, steppers.
[20:20:06] <Phydbleep> I don't care about through plating or solder mask or any of the fancy stuff.. Just bare routed copper.
[20:20:12] <pfred1> the only reason i make my own boards is because i like to do it
[20:22:55] <Phydbleep> I need to be able to make my own because 1. the turnaround (even Priority) is 3 days. 2. I do most of my work on the night shift. 3. Some things will be redesigned 3 or 4 times to get RF noise down or remove signal crosstalk.
[20:24:38] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Want a set of 4096 ppr encoders in a 2"x2"x3/4" housing? You can drill them for a 7-35mm shaft.
[20:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep... what's this look like? and what's critical?
[20:27:11] <A-L-P-H-A> aren't encoders cheap on eBay? or do you need a steady supply?
[20:28:12] <Phydbleep> These will be ~$10 each to make. Less than that if I build the printer for the encoders.
[20:28:54] <pfred1> Phydbleep so you plan on undercutting everyone on ebay then?
[20:29:50] <Phydbleep> Nope.. I just plan on figuring out how then building some for me and giving the plans away to people who want to build their own.
[20:30:39] <pfred1> can't beat that
[20:32:42] <pfred1> someone has to put out a good stepper motor driver I seen a bunch of plans online but none seem that great to me
[20:32:51] <Phydbleep> I want to get this down to the point where a PC + whatever machine + <$500 (Buying new parts.. <$100 if you're a good scrounge.) == a machine that has a 0.001 repeatability.
[20:32:56] <pfred1> the one i made isn't that great I used the wrong chip for mine
[20:33:56] <pfred1> well making my own motor drivers sure was cheap like $23 a pop or something
[20:34:01] <pfred1> $13 even
[20:34:14] <Phydbleep> I'm using discrete HEXFET's for the drivers.. and a 128 pixel linear array sensor (8 pin DIP).
[20:34:51] <pfred1> I used an Allegro PWM module it was cheap enough
[20:35:55] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is using a microcontroller that talks pwm, serial, parallel and I^2C..
[20:36:13] <pfred1> I just wanted step and dir controls
[20:36:19] <les> oh pooh left mid high frequency channel in the music room just went dead
[20:36:48] <pfred1> les that's it blame it on the equipment not your old ears
[20:36:54] <Phydbleep> I want to be able to set a "move-to point" in each axis for fast transit.
[20:36:59] <les> heh
[20:37:39] <les> ok dragging scopes and meter in
[20:37:42] <Phydbleep> Plus les might be interested in a few thousand sets of these later. :)
[20:37:59] <les> oh really
[20:38:56] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sells les 100,000 (for the 1st months supply)
[20:39:05] <les> heh
[20:39:10] <Phydbleep> les: So you have no interest in an encoder you can produce in house for <$6 each in 1000 lots?. :)
[20:39:35] <les> I casn for $6 cost ok
[20:39:43] <les> but selling price...
[20:39:59] <les> the rotors and such are really not an issue
[20:40:15] <les> it's the standard HEDS array
[20:40:32] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep waits to see if it's a "Swimsuit Issue"..
[20:40:49] <les> need three phototransistors and one led
[20:41:05] <les> dirt cheap
[20:41:23] <Jymmm> les individual? or optoswitches?
[20:41:52] <pfred1> Feels Like 76�F
[20:42:03] <les> well there is no reason the standard HP HEDS should cost so much
[20:42:08] <les> not in volume
[20:42:22] <les> phototransistors are cheap
[20:42:30] <pfred1> les you pay for Fiona's golden parachute then come back to us about the price!
[20:42:52] <les> remember ALL transistors are photo transistors to some degree
[20:42:57] <les> all
[20:43:00] <les> not are
[20:43:17] <Phydbleep> This is 1 LED, 1 128 pixel linear sensor.. <$4.50 in single lots. <$2 in 100k lots.
[20:43:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep researches production costs as well.
[20:43:56] <les> well anyway there is just nothing expensive about an encoder
[20:44:12] <les> This is subject to the old 5:1 rule
[20:44:25] <pfred1> this is your brain, cracks an egg into a frying pan, this is your brain making breakfast!
[20:44:28] <les> selling price= 5* cost
[20:45:04] <pfred1> man i gotta go get another DVD to rip my system is to oresponsive right now
[20:45:18] <les> the rotor...just a piece of plastic like out of a bubble gum machine
[20:45:55] <les> the grating...similar...remember candy packadges use hologram films
[20:45:59] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has to disagree with that one.. Selling cost for these should be 2x for a kit and 3.5x for assembled units.
[20:46:07] <les> all thet is left ist the tronics
[20:46:12] <les> is
[20:46:24] <les> three chennels
[20:46:29] <Phydbleep> 5
[20:46:30] <les> channels
[20:46:42] <les> and one light source
[20:47:34] <les> ok and perhaps 3 comparators at most
[20:48:06] <les> the whole thing could be a couple bucks really
[20:48:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is planning for 5 individual axis channel encoders feeding a data aggregator/controller.
[20:48:17] <les> sell for $10?
[20:48:45] <Phydbleep> les: That was the wholesale price I was shooting for.
[20:49:02] <les> The one I just did cost $2.50 or so direct material
[20:49:08] <les> sells for $25.
[20:49:57] <les> total cost is 5 or 6 I guess...still working on the production automation
[20:50:31] <les> I need to be around 5
[20:50:32] <pfred1> les learn coversational Spanish in 24 hours!
[20:50:48] <les> que?
[20:50:58] <Jymmm> por ^
[20:51:01] <pfred1> CNC will never take off until we stop the flow of illegal immigrants!
[20:51:12] <Phydbleep> $10/encoder channel.. $20/drive channel.. $10 for the aggregator. 5 axis setup $150 wholesale. :)
[20:51:17] <Jymmm> * Jymmm gets pfred1 deported!
[20:51:19] <les> heh
[20:51:25] <pfred1> or unless you can figure out how to get the machines to sweep the floor and take out the trash too
[20:51:37] <les> no I do that
[20:51:45] <Jymmm> pfred1 just buy the machien jewpery
[20:51:50] <Jymmm> jewelry
[20:52:16] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep deports everyone.. Why are the damned humans invading this continent anyway?
[20:52:25] <les> haw
[20:52:34] <pfred1> Phydbleep I been here my whole life
[20:52:57] <les> I have to go. I have one channel out and it is driving me nuts.
[20:53:07] <les> prob the diaphragm
[20:53:16] <pfred1> get it an IUD
[20:53:25] <les> 120w into a 1.75 dome direct coupled
[20:53:50] <pfred1> practice safe listening there les
[20:53:56] <les> never
[20:53:58] <les> heh
[20:54:09] <les> later
[20:54:15] <pfred1> don't want any broken diaphragms at this stage
[20:54:29] <les> universally bad
[20:55:11] <les> aw the old 1.75 altec voice of the theaters are a bit fragile
[20:55:17] <les> they do not like dc
[20:55:31] <pfred1> yeah it's a crummy town
[20:55:46] <les> the diaphragms cost about $100 each too
[20:56:00] <pfred1> hey what's it cost without the diaphragms?
[20:56:06] <les> good when they work
[20:56:16] <les> 111 dba 1 meter 1 watt
[20:56:17] <Phydbleep> pfred1: My ancestors on one side got here 100 years before it was a country, and the rest were already here waiting for them. :)
[20:56:40] <pfred1> Phydbleep they came in the Mayflower?
[20:57:05] <pfred1> Phydbleep are you trying to say that they were deadbeats in Europe too?
[20:57:25] <Phydbleep> Close.. Ejected from England under "Royal Ban" in the 1660's..
[20:57:35] <pfred1> coz that's the only people who came here that time
[20:58:23] <pfred1> Phydbleep my family had enough money to make it for a few more generations after that it seems
[20:58:52] <Phydbleep> The Monarch is quoted as saying "We are not amused..." and ordered all the males in the family killed.
[20:59:03] <pfred1> actually my great grandfater was beating a murder rap that's why he came
[20:59:14] <Phydbleep> Something about lacking a sense of humor..
[21:00:16] <Phydbleep> The other 1/2 of the family got here in the 1500's via Spain/Mexico...
[21:03:43] <Phydbleep> And started bitching about illegal aliens in 1620. :)
[21:03:49] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[21:04:43] <pfred1> well we got lots more of them today
[21:04:56] <pfred1> lots more then even when Ellis island was at it's peak
[21:06:53] <tonyp> good afternoon all
[21:06:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is waiting to emigrate.. L-5 Here I come. :)
[21:07:13] <Phydbleep> Good afternoon tonyp :)
[21:07:29] <les> ok that was quick
[21:07:35] <pfred1> Phydbleep keep dreaming humanity will always be stuck in this gravity well
[21:07:40] <les> pulled the diaphragm
[21:07:55] <les> one be cu lead is copletely fused
[21:08:05] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Did I ever claim to be human?
[21:08:05] <les> burnt in two
[21:08:21] <tonyp> I have a question about what is being used to do engraving of letters or signs
[21:08:25] <les> it is not from a dc offset
[21:08:28] <Phydbleep> les: Quit playing that rap @ 140db. :)
[21:08:45] <les> tony: what is your question?
[21:09:14] <tonyp> what kind of software is the best for creating g code for signs
[21:09:31] <les> artcam is the high end
[21:09:38] <les> millwrite the low
[21:09:58] <Phydbleep> Do you need adjustable depth or just cuts?
[21:10:11] <tonyp> both would be nice
[21:10:21] <les> artcam can do full 3-d like v-carving of ttf
[21:10:26] <tonyp> just getting started
[21:10:37] <tonyp> do they have a demo online
[21:10:38] <Phydbleep> Dunno.. For 2d I was going to say try Eagle.
[21:10:40] <les> millwrite does 2.5d stuff
[21:11:02] <pfred1> Phydbleep you still aren't worth the fuel costs it'd take to lift you and what you need to live off this planet
[21:11:10] <Phydbleep> It's for PC boards, but it outputs g-code.
[21:11:27] <les> tony, on my sign page the 3-d v-cut is all artcam
[21:11:40] <les> all the raised letter stuff is millwrite
[21:11:54] <tonyp> that is the stuff Id like to do
[21:12:03] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Who said I was going to use anything as primitive as a solid/liquid fueled booster.
[21:12:06] <les> I charge more for raised letter
[21:12:12] <tonyp> you make any money doing that
[21:12:21] <les> some
[21:12:25] <tonyp> trying to start a business
[21:12:46] <pfred1> Phydbleep oh that's right I forgot you think Star Trek is real you'll use a teleporter right?
[21:13:04] <pfred1> because they couldn't afford to even fake planet landings and take offs!
[21:13:07] <les> not a living, but I have the magazine ads turned off because I am busy with other things
[21:13:15] <les> you need to charge a lot
[21:13:26] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wants some of what pfred1 has been smoking..
[21:13:38] <tonyp> thats why I want to do this as a filler
[21:13:39] <les> If you pound the pavement enough yes it can be an ok living
[21:14:03] <les> one limiting factor is the cost of the cnc machine to do the carving
[21:14:08] <tonyp> I really want to do 3d architectural stuff
[21:14:16] <les> I am seriously looking at that
[21:14:17] <pfred1> les might as well just skip the making stuff step and jump right into sales because that's the only thing that pays
[21:14:24] <tonyp> I built the cnc already and am starting to run it now
[21:14:39] <les> ok good
[21:14:47] <les> capacity?
[21:15:10] <les> (size)
[21:15:11] <tonyp> x 32, y 24, z 4" adjustable up and down
[21:15:20] <les> ok fine
[21:15:34] <Phydbleep> tonyp: Nice.. Accuracy?
[21:15:38] <les> a gantry stepper system?
[21:15:50] <pfred1> les don't ofrget to tell him how many routers he'll be going through :)
[21:15:52] <tonyp> so far it seems to repeat within 1 or 2
[21:16:02] <les> ok.
[21:16:31] <les> Tony I want to send you a test file. it is about 10x 16
[21:16:36] <les> 3-d
[21:16:44] <tonyp> I am hoping to build a high speed spindle for it as my next project so I dont go through spindles
[21:16:50] <les> using a 3/4 90 degree v cutter
[21:16:59] <pfred1> tonyp good plan
[21:17:04] <tonyp> Yes les, I would love that
[21:17:09] <les> can you dcc tony?
[21:17:17] <tonyp> huh
[21:17:27] <les> let's just try it.
[21:17:29] <pfred1> les he may be too big to fit inside the wire
[21:17:32] <tonyp> Im stupid when it comes to this stuff
[21:17:43] <tonyp> but ill try
[21:17:53] <tonyp> what do I need to do
[21:17:58] <pfred1> tonyp when yo usee a prompt type /dcc get les
[21:18:24] <les> you might se a file send request window pop up
[21:18:46] <tonyp> I did and it rejected it
[21:18:55] <pfred1> I haven't seen the IRC client yet that can't take commands right off the terminal
[21:18:55] <tonyp> how do I accept
[21:18:59] <les> what are you using MIRC?
[21:19:12] <pfred1> tonyp type /dcc get les
[21:19:33] <tonyp> I am on a windows box right now
[21:19:38] <les> me too
[21:19:38] <Phydbleep> -tonyp- VERSION mIRC v6.16 Khaled Mardam-Bey
[21:19:48] <pfred1> Phydbleep naughty naughty!
[21:19:56] <pfred1> -:- CTCP VERSION reply from Phydbleep: xchat 2.4.0 Linux 2.6.10-1.737_FC3 [i686/957.42MHz]
[21:20:12] <les> I will try again
[21:20:29] <tonyp> ok
[21:20:35] <pfred1> Phydbleep what'd it say?
[21:20:45] <Phydbleep> You're paranoid. :)
[21:20:49] <pfred1> heh
[21:20:50] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[21:20:59] <pfred1> yeah I got /set stealth 1
[21:21:10] <pfred1> BitchX baby yeah!
[21:21:28] <pfred1> the client everyone loves to hate
[21:21:52] <pfred1> les dcc it to me I'll put it onto my server they can grab it there
[21:21:57] <les> I think you are not seeing anything huh tony?
[21:22:04] <tonyp> I think I I am able to get the file now
[21:22:17] <tonyp> I changed the setting in the client
[21:22:24] <tonyp> try one more time please
[21:22:36] <pfred1> /dcc send tony furrypron.jpg
[21:22:40] <les> ok
[21:22:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep never botherswith stealth .. There's 5-6 machines firewalled in here.. It's funny to watch Windose hacks try to get back through to the 1 windose box.
[21:23:07] <pfred1> heh well when you're NATTed dcc can be tough
[21:23:15] <pfred1> there is a way to set it up though
[21:24:29] <les> nothing happening...sending to pfred
[21:24:38] <pfred1> les :)
[21:24:39] <Phydbleep> I don't have a problem with DCC. I just love watching a remote machine do a port scan trying to find the windose that just hit their web site..
[21:25:14] <pfred1> les that was fast huh?
[21:25:29] <les> yeah
[21:25:52] <les> my blog is brokenso if you could put it up somewhere for tony...
[21:25:57] <tonyp> this client keeps rejecting any files
[21:26:01] <pfred1> tonyp OK grab this
[21:26:11] <pfred1> -:- DCC GET:emcfine.tap [590.7kb] from les completed in 14.82 secs (39.86 kb/sec)
[21:26:21] <pfred1> les nice upload BTW
[21:26:34] <les> ty
[21:26:57] <pfred1> I think I only do like 30 KB/s
[21:28:06] <pfred1> les this client i can /dcc autoget on and it automatically just accepts the dccs
[21:28:07] <les> tony, there are ways to make money with signs I think. I am considering strongly making cnc for sign makers. Do you have Sype? We should talk.
[21:28:19] <les> skype
[21:29:45] <tonyp> what is that
[21:30:09] <pfred1> hmm who grabbed that file?
[21:30:17] <Phydbleep> tonyp: VoIP.. Voice chat, via mike/speakers.
[21:30:19] <pfred1> it wasn't tonyp
[21:30:23] <les> To put things in perspective...the mahogany poem emc engraved brought $600.
[21:30:49] <les> that is in my gallery
[21:30:51] <pfred1> tonyp did you get ?
[21:31:16] <les> tony google skype
[21:31:18] <tonyp> still trying, internet explorer keeps screwing up when opening it
[21:31:29] <pfred1> hmm you got a Linux box?
[21:31:50] <les> ie inlinux...I doubt it
[21:32:11] <pfred1> I wonder if like cuteftp will do http I bet it can
[21:32:14] <tonyp> yeh but it isnt hooked to the internet yet.
[21:32:57] <pfred1> tonyp Linux is pretty cool on the Internet
[21:33:12] <pfred1> it was born on the Internet so it's pretty good about it all
[21:33:22] <Phydbleep> linux is the way to go for network operations.
[21:33:29] <tonyp> yes I used to use it when I worked at Smithy Co
[21:33:36] <pfred1> Linux has a command called wget you just wget URL and it saves whatever
[21:33:44] <tonyp> On a net it was stable and fast
[21:33:51] <pfred1> and flexible
[21:34:08] <pfred1> I got another program that captures multimedia streams it's handy
[21:34:25] <tonyp> I still have to learn to use the terminal window though
[21:34:37] <pfred1> can tune into an internet radio and have endless mp3swho needs Napster? :)
[21:35:08] <pfred1> tonyp this is 2005 use a GUI like X Window
[21:35:33] <pfred1> if yo ureally want a terminal pop one up in X
[21:36:00] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... "xterm -rv -fn 10x20 &"
[21:36:22] <tonyp> thats what I mean, I dont know alot about this stuff yet.
[21:36:33] <tonyp> Lots to learn in a short time
[21:36:36] <les> Anyway tony if you are serious about a sign business we are serious about making affordable machines for that trade
[21:36:37] <Phydbleep> Don't use that @ 640x480 or 800x600 unless you need glasses.
[21:36:38] <pfred1> Phydbleep snag a font pack called xfonts-ibmpc.tar.gz
[21:36:54] <les> not a problem for you since you made your own machine
[21:36:59] <pfred1> Phydbleep one thing I'll say about X it comes with some horrible fonts!
[21:37:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has not used a stock font in ages..
[21:37:25] <tonyp> I am a toolmaker by trade, Just want to be home more
[21:37:41] <les> understand tony
[21:38:05] <Phydbleep> I'm a mad scientist.. I need to build more minions..
[21:38:08] <tonyp> I dont need a whole lot of money, just enough to get by. If I could match my wages or a little less that would be great
[21:38:12] <les> well custom signs are one thing that the far east can't take right?
[21:38:23] <tonyp> wrong
[21:38:30] <les> ?
[21:38:37] <tonyp> they'll figure out a way sooner or later
[21:38:46] <pfred1> les yeah because when they try signs they come out like this http://www.engrish.com/
[21:38:55] <tonyp> neon downloaded from the internet
[21:39:34] <les> Well all I can say is we can make a custom 3-d carved street sign in about 30 minutes
[21:39:40] <les> kinda hard to beat
[21:39:47] <tonyp> yes
[21:39:53] <tonyp> how fast do you cut
[21:39:53] <Jymmm> les including paint?
[21:39:54] <Phydbleep> BTW.. WTH is "Deep fried and look like squirrel", Was it a cat up a tree or what???
[21:39:56] <pfred1> les yeah it's not hard to beat Entrance for Grope Tourists is is?
[21:40:06] <les> the key is to minimize the computer time
[21:40:19] <tonyp> thats the hard part
[21:40:28] <les> we have a plan
[21:40:54] <les> we precarve things like celtic spiral carved blanks
[21:41:18] <les> for the sign we just pick a TTF and type the address
[21:41:26] <Phydbleep> les: That's why I want to use a microcontroller for a data aggregator.. Access it via 2 lpt ports for 1mHz data/address busses.
[21:41:29] <les> center it up and press return
[21:41:51] <les> haha street address
[21:41:56] <les> brb phone
[21:42:23] <Phydbleep> BBIAF.. Food run.
[21:43:16] <pfred1> I want to start another DVD rip over here
[21:45:05] <tonyp> les, is that artcam insignia?
[21:45:12] <tonyp> trying to look it up
[21:46:29] <les> insignia will work
[21:47:07] <les> I use millwrite for most stuff
[21:48:42] <tonyp> downloading a copy of the demo right now
[21:49:08] <les> it is good but rather expensive
[21:49:28] <les> millwrite is not so expensive
[21:50:27] <tonyp> right now I need something for a few weeks to check out my machine
[21:50:53] <tonyp> how fast does your machine cut
[21:50:53] <tonyp> ipm
[21:50:55] <les> I keep a stack of walnot sign blanks in the shop
[21:51:04] <les> precut and prefinished
[21:51:10] <Jymmm> les size?
[21:51:22] <les> 14x36
[21:51:34] <Jymmm> les and what you mean prefinished?
[21:51:51] <les> they are filled and sealed.
[21:51:58] <pfred1> les use pine and the right stain people don't know any better
[21:52:08] <les> after vcutting you just spray a color coar on
[21:52:21] <tonyp> harder to hold fine detail though
[21:52:22] <les> coat
[21:52:28] <les> then sand
[21:52:41] <les> color stays in the carved bits
[21:53:01] <tonyp> ever finish natural
[21:53:13] <les> thena couple coats of sprayed marine spar varnish and you are done.
[21:53:36] <les> look at the ten commandments plaque on my web site
[21:53:40] <les> typical
[21:53:57] <tonyp> I heard you sell alot of those
[21:54:01] <Jymmm> les : Ok, that makes sense in the finishing. But why 14x36?
[21:54:27] <pfred1> Jymmm coz if it doesn't fit on that he doens't want to make it :)
[21:54:36] <les> http://www.lmwatts.com/tencomm.html
[21:54:54] <les> makes 4 house signs or two ten commandments
[21:55:01] <Jymmm> les Ah, ok
[21:55:19] <Jymmm> les never ahve any requests for different sizes?
[21:55:27] <Jymmm> or that jsut the most common
[21:55:42] <pfred1> Jymmm most people don't have your imagination
[21:55:59] <Jymmm> pfred1 : NOBODY ON THE PLANET has my imagination =)
[21:56:24] <pfred1> Jymmm well you're giving Joe 6 Pack waaaay too much credit let me tell you
[21:56:25] <les> jymmm, don't give customers too many choices. I t costs you too much.
[21:56:44] <pfred1> les it probably doesn't even cross their minds
[21:56:55] <les> right
[21:56:55] <pfred1> they figure you know how big signs should be
[21:56:55] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're in the process of correcting a network sync problem which just came up this evening.... we'll be pretty much splitting and rejoining everybody. Expect some noise and things should probably resolve afterwards. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for using freenode!
[21:57:26] <les> correct
[21:57:30] <Jymmm> les it wasn't that as much as maybe making signs for a hotel parking lot that have to fit the existing posts (stuff like that)
[21:57:45] <pfred1> yes they are you DO know how big signs should be!
[21:57:59] <les> never let them design the product. you will be on the computerr for days.
[21:58:12] <lilo> [Global Notice] Here goes....
[21:58:18] <Jymmm> Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[21:58:19] <tonyp> that makes alot of sense
[21:58:20] <pfred1> tell them God makes me make them this size
[21:58:26] <les> heh
[21:58:33] <Jymmm> BLAST OFF!
[21:59:15] <pfred1> wholly netsplits batman!
[21:59:41] <pfred1> wholly netsplits batman!
[21:59:45] <les> gosh what did I say heh
[21:59:54] <pfred1> that was a netsplit
[22:00:12] <pfred1> usually freenode is fairly stable but they're a common occurance on other IRC networks
[22:00:14] <les> explain
[22:00:29] <pfred1> les freenode is a network of servers
[22:00:35] <pfred1> this IRC chat that we're doing
[22:00:42] <fenn> god struck you down for taking his name in vain!
[22:00:44] <pfred1> well there's no guarantee that they'll remain all connected
[22:00:58] <les> haha fenn
[22:01:01] <pfred1> when a server loses connection it's considered split from the network
[22:01:15] <pfred1> here I'll map out freenode for you so as yo ucan see it
[22:01:42] <robin_sz> wheee!
[22:01:47] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[22:01:49] <les> yeah.
[22:01:53] <A-L-P-H-A> are we having fun yet?
[22:01:55] <A-L-P-H-A> are we there yet?
[22:01:57] <fenn> you should offer a version of the 10 commandments in hebrew
[22:01:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I have to go pee
[22:01:59] <robin_sz> are we fsck
[22:02:14] <pfred1> les check this out
[22:02:19] <robin_sz> heres a scary thing.
[22:02:27] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We believe that any channel desync issues are now resolved. Please report any problems you see after 23:16:45 UTC 17 April to me, lilo, or to dmwaters.... thanks again for your patience, and thank you once again for using freenode! :)
[22:02:28] <les> fenn: that is a good point since it is an old testament thing
[22:02:37] <les> crosses do not belong on it
[22:02:38] <pfred1> les that's all the servers currently in this IRC network
[22:02:45] <robin_sz> how do you kow when you have become a sad b*st*rd with no life and to much work?
[22:02:46] <les> but I put them there
[22:02:53] <les> marketing.
[22:03:00] <robin_sz> heres how.
[22:03:00] <pfred1> again what do most people know?
[22:03:03] <robin_sz> a client pays
[22:03:24] <robin_sz> you go "oh goody, lets have a treat"
[22:03:40] <robin_sz> and you cant even think ofanyting fun to do with the money :(
[22:04:00] <pfred1> les yeah you should have a mountain and a burning bush on your 10 Commandments plaques!
[22:04:10] <pfred1> maybe a lightning bolt too for good measure
[22:04:29] <pfred1> God was so much more hands on back then wasn't he?
[22:04:29] <robin_sz> maybe even a real lightning bolt?
[22:04:33] <A-L-P-H-A> so, is someone gonna CNC the 10 commandments in hebrew on something exotic?
[22:04:36] <les> oh we talked a lot about carved crosses that did not belong
[22:04:47] <les> consensus was to put em on
[22:05:12] <les> alpha I can do hebrew
[22:05:14] <robin_sz> for added effect, put them on upside down
[22:05:31] <les> but in hebrew there are more than 10!!!
[22:05:33] <les> heh
[22:05:38] <pfred1> the real truth of the matter is more likely that communities ate a lot more spoiled rye together
[22:05:47] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... if the 10 commandments where so important, where are the tablets now? If they ever existed.
[22:06:07] <robin_sz> they probably did exist
[22:06:08] <les> the tablets are in my shop.
[22:06:16] <les> I scanned em
[22:06:17] <les> heh
[22:06:17] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would prefer a plaque that reads "Which of the four single syllable words 'Thou Shall Not Kill' do you dumbasses not understand?"
[22:06:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not saying they never existed, I'm just saying if they were that important, what happened to them?
[22:06:34] <robin_sz> well they got lost.
[22:06:38] <robin_sz> or broken
[22:07:03] <robin_sz> I'd guess there were probably many sets too
[22:07:06] <pfred1> Phydbleep really I think God is all about killing it's murder that he's not too big on
[22:07:08] <les> yeah. Moses got pissed and broke em. read your bible.
[22:07:15] <Phydbleep> The dog ate them, Yeah that's it. :)
[22:07:17] <tonyp> look at the red cross symbol. it still exists. the snake around the pole, remember?
[22:07:19] <robin_sz> no dount some stonemason did a nice trade in them back then
[22:07:28] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. something important as that, shouldn't get lost. it's like saying, "fuck, I lost the constitution. Yeah i know it's important, but I just misplaced it"
[22:08:26] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A actually we are losing the OCnstitution it's just fading away
[22:08:32] <A-L-P-H-A> les, did he? I don't remember bible study much.
[22:08:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep can see it now... God having a bad day, "Oh Shit! WTF did I put reality?"
[22:08:42] <robin_sz> religion is fine in theory, and indeed 2000 years ago it was probably even a Good Plan(tm) the problem is .. its still running V1.0 alpha, and there seems to be no upgrade path.
[22:08:48] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, isn't it some inert gas to keep it from doing that?
[22:08:48] <les> yeah well they kinda misplaced the arc of the covenant too. Maybe I should cnc a replica.
[22:09:01] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A last i heard it's still in pretty bad shape
[22:09:09] <pfred1> they're trying to do preservation on it
[22:09:19] <pfred1> probably dong a little editing on it while they're at it too
[22:09:33] <A-L-P-H-A> move a comma here or there?
[22:09:36] <Phydbleep> pfred1: That's what happens when politicians wipe their butts with it.. :(
[22:09:38] <A-L-P-H-A> could change a shit load of stuf.f
[22:09:39] <A-L-P-H-A> stuff
[22:09:46] <pfred1> more like wash out whole inalienable rights
[22:09:58] <pfred1> see it doesn't say that!
[22:10:03] <robin_sz> so ... anyway ... I did however, after sitting about thinking what to treat myself to after this money came in .. manage to find something ... so I spent a little of my money on my religion :)
[22:10:08] <A-L-P-H-A> <-- glad to not be a yank.
[22:10:20] <robin_sz> yep .. thats right ...
[22:10:28] <A-L-P-H-A> God Bless the Queen.
[22:10:29] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Trying to be a jerk?
[22:10:32] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[22:10:33] <les> we ain't yanks either heh
[22:10:37] <robin_sz> I repaired my motorbike :)
[22:10:38] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A yeah long as we keep on saving her
[22:10:45] <les> ok I am I guess...from chicago
[22:10:54] <pfred1> we've saved her a number of times for you guys now
[22:11:06] <robin_sz> * robin_sz prays to the god of the petrol engine and the sticky tyres
[22:11:09] <A-L-P-H-A> just an immoral putz, and stupid offspring of the immoral putz.
[22:11:14] <Phydbleep> God save the queen? I didn't know Graham Norton was in danger..
[22:11:38] <A-L-P-H-A> as heirs to the thrown.
[22:11:58] <pfred1> I thought the kid looked OK in the nazi outfit
[22:12:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder will Aussies or Canucks take to the new king afterwards.
[22:12:13] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1. heh. yup. I saw that too.
[22:12:16] <les> sometimes I think I am an heir to the thrown
[22:12:17] <A-L-P-H-A> wtf is the kid thinking?
[22:12:34] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: if you are going to attempt to be insulting, you could at least not spell it "thrown"
[22:12:45] <pfred1> british royalty is related to the German royals anyways oh what's that family's name?
[22:12:49] <A-L-P-H-A> who's insulting?
[22:13:08] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: "just an immoral putz, and stupid offspring of the immoral putz."
[22:13:15] <Phydbleep> pfred1: It's Winsor for the UK side.
[22:13:15] <robin_sz> thats fairly insulting
[22:13:20] <Phydbleep> Windsor.
[22:13:21] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, I'm insulting THEM. not you. :)
[22:13:31] <les> oh settle down you guys. you're breaking the commandments and stuff
[22:13:33] <pfred1> Phydbleep yeah but they're related to the hapsburgs that's them
[22:13:35] <robin_sz> you insult them, you insult my country .. so you insult me.
[22:13:39] <A-L-P-H-A> if i wanted to try and insult you... I know Robin is a girls name. :) heheh j/k
[22:13:52] <les> leslie is too
[22:13:54] <les> heh
[22:14:06] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep vcan resist no longer and may get kicked for it, but here goes...
[22:14:19] <les> haha go
[22:14:32] <Phydbleep> Robins, Does the mask make you feel cool too? :)
[22:14:37] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, so you think that Henry dressed in a nazi uniform is okay?
[22:14:37] <pfred1> robin_sz insult who? you're tourist draws?
[22:14:52] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: Henry?
[22:14:55] <robin_sz> who?
[22:14:56] <pfred1> english royalty is their version of Mickey Mouse
[22:15:09] <A-L-P-H-A> Prince Henry. One of the kids with the floppy ears.
[22:15:18] <robin_sz> never heard of him
[22:15:29] <pfred1> yeah it's no wonder they all go into the airforce saves on buying them planes
[22:15:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Harry
[22:15:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Not henry.
[22:15:39] <robin_sz> oh him
[22:15:40] <pfred1> they just gotta flap their ears ot take off :)
[22:15:55] <les> oh haw
[22:15:58] <robin_sz> I've worn worse things to a fancy dress party
[22:16:53] <A-L-P-H-A> http://ant.sillydog.org/blog/pic/_40716791_sun203ok.jpg horray for the tabloids!
[22:16:53] <robin_sz> it was neither OK, nor not OK, it was simply un-imoprtant
[22:16:55] <pfred1> either that or they figure if the plane fails they can jump out and glide down easily enough so it's safe
[22:16:59] <les> I was a flasher in a halloween party in school. I only wore an overcoat and sneakers.
[22:17:11] <les> Girls took my overcoat.
[22:17:13] <A-L-P-H-A> les, did you flash anyone?
[22:17:18] <robin_sz> please PLEASE tell us you DONT have photos of that
[22:17:26] <pfred1> les they wanted you to be a streaker
[22:17:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I can just picture it now... the girls just pointing and laughing. :D hehehehhee
[22:17:54] <les> alas no photos..but you know I have plenty more.
[22:18:05] <robin_sz> I feared as much :)
[22:18:16] <pfred1> how some no one streaks anymore that used to be big
[22:18:19] <les> I prefer to remember them as in a state of awe.
[22:18:28] <robin_sz> shock
[22:18:34] <robin_sz> bemusement?
[22:18:37] <pfred1> I can remember people streaking across baseball fields
[22:18:40] <les> haha
[22:19:26] <les> I only remember that cause I met my first wife at that party.
[22:19:33] <robin_sz> ha
[22:19:39] <pfred1> and they called him The Streak ...
[22:19:54] <robin_sz> anyway ... heres a weird thing
[22:20:08] <robin_sz> if you leave a battery on a motorcycle, uncharged, for 2 years
[22:20:15] <robin_sz> it goes bad
[22:20:32] <robin_sz> so does the chain
[22:20:39] <robin_sz> weird huh?
[22:20:43] <les> ?
[22:20:49] <pfred1> i heard of a guy who'd take marine batteries cut the tops off take them apart clean the plates throw everything back together new acid charge be as good as new
[22:21:08] <pfred1> yeah there's probably an oxide layer on the plates
[22:21:14] <robin_sz> no
[22:21:21] <robin_sz> sulphate
[22:21:26] <les> yeah
[22:21:45] <les> I am due a new battery for my car.
[22:21:47] <pfred1> well this guy with the marine batteries everyone was much impressed with his skills at reviving batteries
[22:21:52] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Yep, and if you replace it with a pack of organic litium cells and forget the isolation diode, It goes "BOOM!" and sets your air cleaner on fire. :)
[22:21:57] <pfred1> les one word Walmart
[22:22:05] <pfred1> :)
[22:22:14] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: well, who would have thought huh?
[22:22:16] <pfred1> man they sell batteries for like $30
[22:22:17] <les> wallmart does not have the battery for my car
[22:22:22] <pfred1> oh get out
[22:22:27] <les> really
[22:22:27] <robin_sz> hmm. �48 here ...
[22:22:31] <pfred1> they got a whole big rack of batteries one must fit
[22:22:33] <robin_sz> thats what $100?
[22:22:47] <Phydbleep> $87
[22:22:50] <robin_sz> its a gel battery ...
[22:23:03] <robin_sz> as its at a weird angle
[22:23:10] <les> german car batteries go in the back seat or trunk and need a hydrogen vent hose
[22:23:27] <pfred1> oh gawd
[22:23:35] <robin_sz> the chain was fun though ... it got me to the test centre ... but not quite back ...
[22:23:41] <les> it's a better place..
[22:23:50] <les> no under hood temp cycling
[22:23:58] <robin_sz> well ... it got halfway back .. and then half snapped
[22:24:05] <pfred1> I've known people to put batteries in the trunk and not worry about a few puffs of hydrogen
[22:24:16] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I'm a great believer in remote mount batteries.
[22:24:19] <pfred1> good luck getting that stuff to ignite there's just not enough of it
[22:24:25] <robin_sz> quite
[22:24:42] <robin_sz> landrover have it under a seat
[22:24:48] <robin_sz> old Mini's too
[22:25:02] <pfred1> reminds me i gotta go check on my tractor battery
[22:25:12] <les> my audi had it under the seat...bmw in the trunk
[22:25:32] <Phydbleep> A guy down the block has a 12 pack of deep cycles in the trunk.. It's to run the pumps for the hyraulics on his low-rider.
[22:25:34] <robin_sz> mmm, my bmws have always had them in the engine bay
[22:25:54] <les> e-36 is in the trunk
[22:26:04] <robin_sz> not in the UK ...
[22:26:10] <les> really
[22:26:22] <les> my truck has it in the engine bay
[22:26:22] <robin_sz> had a 325 e-36
[22:26:44] <les> That is what I have...a 325
[22:26:49] <robin_sz> wife has a e-30 touring .. still in the bay. that touring just keeps going ...
[22:26:58] <robin_sz> and going ...
[22:27:00] <robin_sz> and ..
[22:27:05] <les> mine too
[22:27:14] <robin_sz> must have had it .. what, 8 years now
[22:27:23] <robin_sz> maybe more ...
[22:27:25] <les> those e36 are FAST
[22:27:45] <robin_sz> hmm, I actually drive faster in smaller lighter cars
[22:27:50] <les> no low end torque...but get above 4k...vroom
[22:28:10] <les> but I drive slow
[22:28:18] <pfred1> me too
[22:28:24] <les> If i want to go fast...well you have one guess
[22:28:27] <robin_sz> got a little 306 peugeot, turbo-diesel ... I dont mind getting it sideways at all .. get the BMW sideways in a corner and who knows ...
[22:28:48] <robin_sz> yeah, fast = 2 wheels :)
[22:29:10] <les> have to throttle up in an e36 in a curve
[22:29:22] <les> lift off and the back comes round
[22:29:23] <robin_sz> yeah, keep it balanced
[22:30:02] <robin_sz> thats what people who cant drive cant get their heads around ... you need to keep it balanced
[22:30:11] <robin_sz> its even more extreme on bikes ...
[22:30:57] <les> really
[22:31:01] <robin_sz> on bikes the tyre contact patch is 70% rear, 30% front
[22:31:09] <les> wow
[22:31:16] <robin_sz> so the ideal weight distro is 70% rear etc
[22:31:36] <robin_sz> they sit roughyly 50:50 stationary
[22:31:49] <robin_sz> so to get to 70:30 you need to accelerate
[22:32:05] <robin_sz> once cranked over and in a curve, keep the throttle open ...
[22:32:31] <robin_sz> shut it and you go 30:70 ... you now have 70% weight on the 30% patch front tyre ... not good
[22:32:51] <les> hmm
[22:33:53] <les> I am running dunlops on the e36...I like them so much that I am going to try them on the truck
[22:34:11] <robin_sz> dunlop make many many grades though ...
[22:34:14] <robin_sz> some great,
[22:34:17] <robin_sz> some yuck
[22:34:21] <les> yeah
[22:34:44] <les> The ones I got I like
[22:34:48] <les> soft..
[22:34:52] <les> sticky...
[22:34:55] <robin_sz> I always raced on Dunlops ... predictable
[22:35:00] <les> last 20k miles max
[22:35:06] <les> but that's ok.
[22:35:14] <robin_sz> 20K? ... loads ;)
[22:35:20] <les> yeah.
[22:35:39] <robin_sz> I once worked out how many miles I got out of a pair of race tyres ...
[22:35:45] <robin_sz> it was less than 200
[22:36:02] <robin_sz> a friend once shredded a pair in less than 10 .. but he won :)
[22:36:10] <les> I'll take safe handling over a 50k mile tire anyday.
[22:36:15] <robin_sz> yep
[22:36:56] <robin_sz> modern tyres can give you both though ... well, maybe not 50K
[22:37:11] <les> We'll see how dunlop's truck tires do
[22:37:23] <les> the oem goodyears are just mush
[22:37:23] <robin_sz> wonder what the coefficient of friction is?
[22:37:23] <Phydbleep> The new Michellin's look interesting.. 0 sidewall, 3/4" of tread on a sprung rim..
[22:38:03] <les> My e36 had oem michelin
[22:38:08] <les> they were good
[22:38:16] <les> but so expensive
[22:38:23] <robin_sz> you know, some physics texts still teach that 0 < friction < 1
[22:38:33] <les> heh
[22:38:59] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: 0.5? 0.6 not much.. They won't even hold the factory test track..
[22:39:22] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: most tyres are above 1
[22:39:26] <les> the e36 can do a lane change at 60 mph in about half a second...that's all I know
[22:39:35] <robin_sz> hah, the "moose" test
[22:39:41] <les> yeah.
[22:40:00] <les> I did put bilstein sport shocks on it
[22:40:10] <Phydbleep> You mean the lawyer test? Can I swerve fast enough to hit him?
[22:40:10] <robin_sz> yeah,
[22:40:28] <robin_sz> shocks and rubber, thats what gives speed.
[22:40:33] <robin_sz> not horsepower
[22:41:01] <les> the e36 M50 is only 185 hp
[22:41:12] <les> my truck is 240
[22:41:14] <Phydbleep> Thrust gives speed.. Everything else just keeps your kidneys out of your socks.
[22:41:46] <robin_sz> ah .. I feel better now.
[22:41:46] <les> I wish both of them were 30 hp right now with gas prices.
[22:41:54] <robin_sz> heh
[22:41:58] <robin_sz> what is gas now?
[22:42:00] <robin_sz> $3?
[22:42:09] <les> oh 2.25/gal
[22:42:18] <les> I know...cheap as water
[22:42:19] <robin_sz> hah, got a LONG way to go yet
[22:42:26] <les> but we are not used to it
[22:42:31] <Phydbleep> $2.25 Reg here avg.
[22:42:47] <les> the e36 is premium only
[22:42:53] <les> the truck regular
[22:42:56] <robin_sz> you know ... $2.25 ... thats �1.30 ?
[22:43:03] <les> yeah.
[22:43:04] <robin_sz> 4 litres ...
[22:43:16] <gezr> I caught one walleye, my dad caught 3 worth keeping and inside the limits :)
[22:43:26] <robin_sz> you know, I think it might even be that we have bottled water more ecpensive than that
[22:43:29] <Jymmm> * Jymmm puts new tires on his expedition... 145SR13
[22:43:32] <les> great gezr
[22:43:43] <gezr> my dad caught like 8 fish, I dont have my technique down yet
[22:44:03] <les> wondering how your fishing went
[22:44:12] <robin_sz> hey gezr, I got mik bike running yesterday .. first ride in 2 years :)
[22:44:17] <gezr> it was a great time away from the rest of the world
[22:44:21] <gezr> robin_sz : sweet :)
[22:44:27] <Phydbleep> And here I am being a cheapskate and building a waste-oil burning, steam powered moped.
[22:44:36] <Jymmm> gezr Why did you come back (ran out of beer)?
[22:44:47] <robin_sz> the battery failed and the chain snapped, but apaprt from that ...
[22:44:53] <gezr> I dont drink much if at all jymm
[22:44:57] <gezr> robin_sz : hahaha
[22:45:01] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: build a diesel
[22:45:17] <gezr> we had a thermos full of coffee I guess,
[22:45:25] <les> jymmm...I made a lot of parts for ford. Perhaps I should not say which...
[22:45:35] <robin_sz> thats what old wossisname .. indian kid .. scara bot ..
[22:45:43] <robin_sz> he built a diesel bike
[22:45:54] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: That's actually what I want to run it on..I'm just building it to handle anything down to used crankcase oil.
[22:45:58] <gezr> les : it was a good time, moby dick didnt snap my line, so I dont feel compled to go Ahab on that lake just yet
[22:46:10] <les> haha
[22:46:16] <les> no beckoning huh
[22:46:32] <gezr> Oh I am going to go again this next weekend I think hahah
[22:46:37] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: with electronic injection you can get CRAZY mileage on a diesel bike
[22:46:56] <Phydbleep> gezr: Fishing secret... Dynamite, C4 will! :)
[22:47:00] <gezr> got to wire a complete breaker box at my dads the first 6 or so hours of the day, I did great work
[22:47:29] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: thats cheating
[22:47:41] <gezr> Phydbleep : our game and fish commision, has exclusive rights to all of your property at the time of any infringement upon the laws
[22:47:43] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: generator, 2 long poles ...
[22:48:19] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: I'm actually working with hybrid stuff, The motor I want for the genset is one of these.
[22:48:25] <gezr> so boat and everything in it, trailer, vehical used to pull it all, can be taken
[22:48:51] <gezr> Phydbleep : you can make a metal melting thing using waste oil, I dont know much about it,
[22:49:13] <Phydbleep> http://www.freedom-motors.com
[22:49:27] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: trust me ... hybrid engines and efficiency will soon become big business in the USA
[22:49:42] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[22:49:47] <Phydbleep> ROFLMAO!
[22:50:09] <gezr> http://www.millerwelds.com/products/tig/dynasty_300/
[22:50:22] <gezr> ^ makes my wood petrified
[22:50:26] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been pushing that in the US for 15 years and finally people have stopped looking at me like I'm a loonie..
[22:50:42] <robin_sz> yeah, well .. gas has a long way to go yet
[22:50:57] <robin_sz> I figure ... $8/usgallon
[22:51:21] <Phydbleep> Now they look at me like a terrorist because I don't think the US has the rights to any resource it wants to steal. :[
[22:51:22] <gezr> robin_sz : your right, but its not time for that just yet
[22:51:26] <robin_sz> give it 2 years ...
[22:51:51] <robin_sz> gezr: its already basically $10 here ...
[22:52:05] <robin_sz> globalisation ..
[22:52:10] <Phydbleep> http://www.crystalyte.com I've been a consultant for this company for ~ 5 years.
[22:52:12] <robin_sz> it will all come into line ...
[22:52:35] <gezr> It could be much lower here, if we used fewer blends, aditional refineries, and drilled our own
[22:53:16] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: interesting ..
[22:53:29] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: pity about the images .. who does their web stuff?
[22:53:45] <Phydbleep> And listen to Joe 6-Pack throw a hissy when he can't get gas for lighting that burning cross? The politicians will never do it.
[22:54:51] <Phydbleep> They do it in house.. I helped 'refine' some of the Mandarin/English translations to keep it off http://www.engrish.com. :)
[22:55:16] <robin_sz> heh
[22:55:31] <robin_sz> get them to re-size their images to match the displayed size ...
[22:55:41] <robin_sz> very slow to load, bigger than they need to be
[22:56:13] <Phydbleep> Is he doing that again? I'll have to bug him about that.
[22:58:59] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:59:10] <robin_sz> some of themeven come out with oval wheels :)
[22:59:10] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: If you check the freedom-motors.com site you should find a press release about a 150cc diesel generator with fuel injection and a few other niceties.. That's what I want for a test unit. :)
[22:59:41] <Phydbleep> They're also going to be making a 27cc unit for power tools.
[22:59:51] <robin_sz> hmmm
[23:00:06] <robin_sz> efficiency of wankel engines is usually low
[23:00:23] <robin_sz> they probably aint 1300cc either ...
[23:00:32] <robin_sz> depepnds how it is measured ..
[23:00:50] <robin_sz> probably better classed as 3x1300
[23:01:00] <robin_sz> but anyway ...
[23:01:06] <robin_sz> its the mileage that counts
[23:01:25] <Phydbleep> Anything with a cooling system is inefficiant and a wast of fuel, But what are you going to do?
[23:01:47] <robin_sz> ceramics and run em hot?
[23:01:50] <Phydbleep> 1300.. Single plug design.
[23:02:08] <robin_sz> its probably 1300cc swept volume
[23:02:18] <robin_sz> but you have 3 chambers ...
[23:02:19] <Phydbleep> Yeah.
[23:02:28] <robin_sz> or rotors ..
[23:02:44] <Phydbleep> Still only fires one at a time.
[23:02:49] <robin_sz> insurance companies typically class em as a 1300
[23:03:14] <robin_sz> well, my 2 litre car is only a 500 then
[23:03:22] <robin_sz> (only one fires at a time ;)
[23:03:34] <robin_sz> but anyway ...
[23:03:40] <robin_sz> what counts is mileage
[23:04:03] <robin_sz> my brother has a mazda RX7 ...
[23:04:25] <robin_sz> thats a rotary ...
[23:04:30] <Phydbleep> 18 mpg?
[23:04:33] <robin_sz> if that
[23:04:54] <Phydbleep> I was assuming he's been maintaining it.
[23:05:16] <robin_sz> yeah .. and tuning .. and tweaking for more power
[23:05:39] <Phydbleep> Ah, He poened the ports up.. 13mpg.
[23:05:43] <Phydbleep> opened
[23:06:25] <robin_sz> he did "things" to it .. I tried not to pay too much attention in case it encouraged him
[23:06:35] <robin_sz> wound the boost up and ported it
[23:06:47] <robin_sz> 275bhp I think at the wheels
[23:06:56] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... I have a Jeep sitting in the driveway that gets that kind of mileage towing a mobile home with no wheels. :)
[23:07:05] <robin_sz> yep
[23:07:23] <robin_sz> I fancy someting lpg powered ...
[23:08:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep fancies a redhead.
[23:08:42] <Phydbleep> Gotta have priorities. :)
[23:11:01] <robin_sz> mmmm .. blondes
[23:11:11] <Phydbleep> Priority 1 at the moment is cutting some steel before dark..
[23:11:16] <robin_sz> right
[23:11:16] <Phydbleep> bbiab. :)
[23:11:36] <robin_sz> I fed the laser some 1mm sheet yesterday ...
[23:11:47] <robin_sz> 9m/minute :)
[23:12:06] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: What's your dot size?
[23:12:15] <robin_sz> .25
[23:12:20] <Phydbleep> mm ?
[23:12:23] <robin_sz> yeah
[23:12:49] <robin_sz> octually .. thats kerf
[23:12:56] <robin_sz> dot probably less than that
[23:13:02] <Phydbleep> Blast.. Was hoping it would do 0.01mm
[23:13:29] <robin_sz> nah
[23:13:42] <robin_sz> not your encoders still?
[23:13:48] <Phydbleep> Oh, well 1200 dpi from a printhead it is...
[23:14:10] <robin_sz> photo it at a pcb shop
[23:14:16] <Phydbleep> I want a precision set for the radial printer.
[23:15:02] <robin_sz> vernier discs?
[23:15:24] <Phydbleep> symmetric pwm rotary encoders
[23:15:32] <robin_sz> oh right
[23:15:44] <robin_sz> thought about doing it with vernier discs?
[23:16:11] <robin_sz> two discs
[23:16:12] <Phydbleep> They'll run full speed either direction this way.
[23:16:23] <robin_sz> 0ne with 1000 lines ...
[23:16:28] <robin_sz> one with 1001 lines
[23:16:43] <robin_sz> pickups at 12 and 3 o'clock ..
[23:17:21] <Phydbleep> I can put the 4096 ppr encoder in a 2"x2"x3/4" package with this system. for $10 in parts at the hobbyist level.
[23:17:29] <robin_sz> same as they do in electronic micrometers etc
[23:17:44] <robin_sz> ok
[23:18:07] <robin_sz> its just vernier discs are simpler/more robust/less alignment etc etc etc
[23:18:43] <Phydbleep> And it reads out as a pre-decoded position with eeprom memory for last postion storage...
[23:19:03] <robin_sz> assuming its not moved while its been off
[23:19:34] <Phydbleep> < 1 turn is not a problem.. Otherwise re-zero it.
[23:20:43] <Phydbleep> Actually I could make it battery backed and have it wake up and recalc/store position.
[23:21:07] <Phydbleep> And still do it for <$10.
[23:29:32] <fenn> hrm vernier discs.. how do you determine direction of rotation?
[23:30:21] <robin_sz> pickups at 12 and 3 o'clock ..
[23:30:48] <fenn> i've never heard of this type of encoder.. what's the difference from a regular quadrature encoder?
[23:31:14] <robin_sz> umm, it has 2 discs instead of one?
[23:31:25] <robin_sz> produces a quadrature outout still
[23:31:26] <fenn> right, but, uh
[23:31:45] <fenn> so if you have 1000 line disc and 1001 line disc, what's the resolution?
[23:31:51] <robin_sz> but sensor placement is non critical
[23:32:21] <fenn> I will read up on it..
[23:32:46] <robin_sz> you know the cheap didgital verniers ...
[23:32:50] <robin_sz> some use this method
[23:33:05] <robin_sz> but with linear scales ...
[23:33:13] <robin_sz> no reason not to use a rotey scale
[23:33:18] <robin_sz> rotary
[23:33:50] <robin_sz> ps. I have no idea if this has or hasnt been done before, but its pretty obvious ... must have been done
[23:34:33] <fenn> I have some $15 digital calipers.. I thought they used a linear resistive quadrature encoder
[23:34:54] <robin_sz> capacative usually
[23:35:02] <robin_sz> some are optical ...
[23:35:04] <fenn> ah. never actually taken apart
[23:35:20] <robin_sz> you can see it sometimes on the scale ...
[23:35:28] <robin_sz> is it a mat black scale?
[23:35:49] <fenn> I think its black plastic with yellow screen print rule
[23:35:56] <robin_sz> right ..
[23:36:04] <robin_sz> well .. that black plastic ..
[23:36:12] <robin_sz> its just paint over a PCB ...
[23:36:36] <robin_sz> look very very carefully, you can see the finger pattern of the pcb print ..
[23:38:40] <robin_sz> I can on mine anyway
[23:40:59] <fenn> a quadrature is just a 2-line vernier anyway