#emc | Logs for 2005-04-16

[00:00:28] <jmkasunich> for a given machine I agree that all internal data should use the same units
[00:00:40] <jmkasunich> but I don't think EMC should dicatate to the machine builder what that unit is
[00:00:53] <jmkasunich> microns, mm, meters, inches, should be the builder's choice
[00:01:27] <SWPadnos> yes - but there are definitely confusing things in e.g. the ini file
[00:01:40] <SWPadnos> people don't know what units are attached to different parameters
[00:01:52] <SWPadnos> length, length^2, "units", counts, etc.
[00:01:55] <jmkasunich> yes - ini and configs are a sticking point for HAL...
[00:02:37] <SWPadnos> The other thing to look at is dynamic configurability of HAL drivers
[00:02:54] <SWPadnos> for example, on the USC, there's an 8-bit output port (separate from the SSR outputs)
[00:03:14] <SWPadnos> this is meant for spindle speed control, but the driver doesn't use it yet
[00:03:38] <jmkasunich> it's supposed to connect to a DAC, right?
[00:03:41] <SWPadnos> It is just 8 port bits, which can be output to an R-2R ladder, or to a D/A converter
[00:03:46] <SWPadnos> (yeah)
[00:03:57] <SWPadnos> but, it could also be used as 8 HAL_BIT outputs
[00:04:10] <SWPadnos> yo chouldn't need a different driver for those two options
[00:04:16] <SWPadnos> you shouldn't ...
[00:04:57] <SWPadnos> so there should be a method of either having driver "snap-in" modules, or having a driver be able to change the pins it exports dynamically
[00:05:01] <jmkasunich> ideally the driver would know what is connected there... if a DAC, it would export one analog HAL pin who's value is written to the DAC. otherwise, it exports 8 digital HAL pins
[00:05:30] <SWPadnos> in this case, the driver can't know, because there is no feedback (unless you compile a separate driver)
[00:05:43] <jmkasunich> right now if the driver can't tell by polling the HW, you'd have to pass the "DAC/noDAC" info as an insmod command line
[00:05:56] <SWPadnos> also, there's no reason why you couldn't connect a D/A to any generic I/O port (or block)
[00:06:11] <jmkasunich> hal drivers in general use insmod command line parameters for config - you wouldn't have to recompile
[00:07:05] <SWPadnos> I suppose what I'm trying to do could be done by a DacBits module - has one float input and 8 bit outputs
[00:07:08] <jmkasunich> some DACs could do that... but most these days have strobes or similar, and don't just want to see 8 wires
[00:07:18] <SWPadnos> true
[00:07:42] <jmkasunich> DAVbits would unpack, then later parport would repack... that is certainly sub-optimal
[00:08:00] <SWPadnos> yes - that's why I'm wondering about reconfigurability
[00:08:28] <jmkasunich> I'm assuming the case where someone wants to connect a DAC to 8 arbitrary digital outputs is gonna be rare
[00:08:36] <SWPadnos> is there any way for low-level data to make its way up to higher levels? (like, which HAL_PINs are on the same physical port)
[00:08:59] <SWPadnos> not arbitrary bits, but on a purely digital board, yes
[00:09:52] <SWPadnos> ie, a PCI-DIO board from computerboards would have no notion of analog in the driver, but it would be nice to be able to grab a "byte" or "word" of output from it, as one block
[00:10:11] <SWPadnos> for use in a higher-level function
[00:10:21] <jmkasunich> again, could be done by insmod time parameters
[00:10:23] <SWPadnos> a toolchanger might have a similar requirement for aggregated biuts
[00:10:27] <SWPadnos> bits
[00:10:40] <jmkasunich> instead of exporting 8 hal_bit pins, it could export one hal_u8 pin
[00:11:07] <SWPadnos> yes - but then every driver has to be changed for each possible data type
[00:11:34] <SWPadnos> (ie, if we add a HAL_u64 and HAL_s64, all drivers would need updating to support it)
[00:11:41] <SWPadnos> (or at least those with more than 32 bits ;) )
[00:12:18] <jmkasunich> hopefully the syntax for telling a driver "bits 0-8 are individual, bits 8-15 should be packed, 16-23 are single, and 24-foo are packed" could be standardized, and applied to all multi-bit digital drivers
[00:12:31] <jmkasunich> there will be no HAL_u64
[00:12:32] <SWPadnos> exactly
[00:12:54] <jmkasunich> current generations of processor can't access 64 bit values atomically
[00:13:14] <jmkasunich> all hal types are 32 bits or less, for that reason
[00:13:16] <SWPadnos> yes they can
[00:13:32] <jmkasunich> not without wrapping the code in something
[00:13:43] <jmkasunich> longlong *foo;
[00:13:48] <jmkasunich> tmp = *foo;
[00:13:49] <SWPadnos> amd_64 and ia_64 and ppc are all ecxamples of processors that can
[00:13:51] <jmkasunich> is not atomic
[00:14:34] <jmkasunich> when the last ia32 CPU is pushing up daisies, then we can start using 64 bit hal types ;-)
[00:14:55] <jmkasunich> some can, but that's not good enough
[00:18:17] <jmkasunich> actually, the place where I wish I could use 64 bits is not digital I/O, its analog
[00:18:31] <Jymmm> s/64/1024/
[00:18:54] <jmkasunich> hal_float is a float, not a double, because of the 32 bit limitation
[00:18:54] <Jymmm> oh you said bits... make that 128 =)
[00:19:05] <jmkasunich> jymmm: Huh?
[00:19:20] <pfred1> parts is parts, pieces is pieces bits well sweep them up
[00:19:21] <SWPadnos> phone
[00:19:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich : I feel that 256 bit computers should be commonplace TODAY.
[00:19:49] <jmkasunich> why? no need for them
[00:20:08] <pfred1> Jymmm where's my flying car?
[00:20:25] <Jymmm> they promised us hovercrafts damnit!
[00:21:14] <Jymmm> jmkasunich it would help in cryptography work, that's for sure.
[00:21:51] <pfred1> damned mplayer wouldn't play me any sound on that DVD so I'm building a new one and if this doesn't work why this computer may just have an entirely new definition of just what "booting the system" can really mean!
[00:22:09] <jmkasunich> minor speedup, yes, but any size CPU can manage arbitrarly long keys anyway
[00:22:43] <jmkasunich> you don't need a 1024 bit CPU to do encryption with 1024 bit keys
[00:22:52] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Well, I'm expecting 256bit to also once and for all resolve the floating point issues along the way.
[00:24:13] <pfred1> hopefully this christmas season Santa will leave me a nice new PC at the town dumps here i really need to upgrade
[00:24:17] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I'm not talking en/decryption itself as much as cryptography.
[00:24:41] <jmkasunich> as in breaking of encryption?
[00:25:07] <Jymmm> * Jymmm first project when he gets this cnc router built will be to create a dumpster diving trophy for pfred1
[00:25:28] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I never said encryption. cryptography os much more than just that.
[00:25:34] <Jymmm> s/os/is/
[00:25:37] <pfred1> heck this year I should be able to find systems more powerful than this one
[00:25:44] <jmkasunich> sorry, don't know much about it
[00:25:46] <pfred1> this is only an 800MHz
[00:25:53] <jmkasunich> only?
[00:26:11] <pfred1> yeah I'm pulling 450s out with fair regularity up to now and have gotten a 500
[00:26:21] <jmkasunich> until last week, 600 was my best
[00:26:30] <pfred1> so I figure by christmas this year I should be getting stuff faster than 800MHz
[00:27:03] <jmkasunich> I got an 800 this week, but that was the first
[00:27:15] <pfred1> dumpster diving?
[00:27:19] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:27:22] <pfred1> nice
[00:27:36] <pfred1> yeah I'm figuring that 800 and up from here on in picking
[00:27:45] <jmkasunich> they don't approve of people taking whole computers, so I grab parts
[00:27:52] <pfred1> what?
[00:28:05] <pfred1> my town you just grab the whole box
[00:28:20] <jmkasunich> but when I saw the 800, I grabbed the mobo and cpu and ram all together
[00:28:24] <pfred1> take it home maybe flip around the floppy cable and you're in business
[00:28:49] <jmkasunich> I pick at work.. can only take certain things
[00:29:03] <pfred1> the last one i grabbed it was really weird it needed a drive on one of it's SCSI busses in order to boot
[00:29:22] <pfred1> it was very specific as to which SCSI chain needed a drive
[00:29:27] <jmkasunich> SCSI busses in general is weird these days, unless it's a server or something
[00:29:33] <pfred1> that one took me a few minutes to figure out
[00:29:47] <pfred1> yeah it was an HP Kayak had 2 seperate SCSIs in it
[00:30:03] <pfred1> two whole different busses
[00:30:14] <pfred1> and without a drive on one it didn't want to know anything
[00:30:18] <jmkasunich> high end box in its day
[00:30:22] <pfred1> I never seen anything like it before
[00:30:29] <pfred1> yeah it was a POS
[00:30:36] <pfred1> I ended up just snagging the memory out of it
[00:30:40] <Phydbleep> Early Raid-0/1 box.
[00:30:48] <pfred1> nice assed case
[00:30:52] <jmkasunich> I don't like HP - too much proprietary stuff
[00:30:54] <pfred1> but overall it was a dog
[00:31:14] <pfred1> yeah when I grabbed it I really thought I had something
[00:31:21] <pfred1> til I actually got it running
[00:31:21] <jmkasunich> I know that feeling
[00:31:37] <pfred1> heck I got PI200's that'll kick it's ass
[00:31:42] <pfred1> it is a PII450
[00:31:44] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. I have a Compaq like that..
[00:32:07] <pfred1> yeah I was a little miffed
[00:32:18] <pfred1> maybe if it had the second CPU installed i donno
[00:32:30] <pfred1> maybe then it'd have been something just had one in it though
[00:32:40] <jmkasunich> http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=tis07266&locale=en_US&taskId=101&prodSeriesId=50440&prodTypeId=15351
[00:33:08] <jmkasunich> that's the fanciest box I've ever picked
[00:33:40] <jmkasunich> dual P3-600
[00:33:51] <pfred1> so far best system I've nailed has been an IBM Aptiva box
[00:34:02] <pfred1> it's a PIII500
[00:34:23] <pfred1> I actually use it in my dungeon lab
[00:34:50] <pfred1> 20GB HDD DVD player 256MB RAM CD burner
[00:34:56] <jmkasunich> nice
[00:35:08] <jmkasunich> I've never found a DVD, and only onw CD burner
[00:35:08] <pfred1> yeah that one was funny I grabbed it down in the metal pile
[00:35:16] <pfred1> the bucket loader had already pushed it around some
[00:35:38] <pfred1> so I grabbed it out of the mud not knowing what it was figured I'd pull the IDC connector out of it or something
[00:35:47] <pfred1> got it home read the decal on it I was likt this can't be true
[00:36:11] <pfred1> I think it had a fiddly keyboard PS2 connector or something
[00:37:16] <pfred1> oh gawd same deal Cannot find codec for audio format 0x2001.
[00:37:21] <SWPadnos> back (for a bit)
[00:37:31] <SWPadnos> on the 64 bit thing - it's only an example :)
[00:38:12] <SWPadnos> but, I wouldn't worry about atomic reads/writes when all bits are represented in individual bytes anyway ;)
[00:38:44] <jmkasunich> well if you define a 16 bit entity, I assume you want it transferred atomically
[00:38:53] <SWPadnos> true
[00:38:55] <jmkasunich> (or 8, or 32)
[00:39:36] <SWPadnos> a 32-bit float is fine going between drivers and higher level code, but not enough between different high level functions
[00:39:44] <jmkasunich> right
[00:40:03] <jmkasunich> the atomic thing is only needed if data is being passed between different threads
[00:40:07] <SWPadnos> actually, there's no reason to have floats in drivers - all the hardware deals in bits
[00:40:24] <jmkasunich> that's where we differ
[00:40:37] <jmkasunich> I think a dac should be commanded to output _volts_, not counts
[00:40:59] <SWPadnos> you can have conversion functions for DAC/ADC cards, where the function converts (on the user/high level side)3
[00:41:05] <jmkasunich> the higher level code shouldn't have to know whether you have an 8, 10, or 12 bit converter
[00:41:15] <SWPadnos> all code other than the driver and the helper deal in floats
[00:41:26] <jmkasunich> why have the separate helper?
[00:41:46] <SWPadnos> it may ease the pains of floats in kernel space
[00:42:15] <jmkasunich> hal supports floating point math on a thread by thread basis
[00:42:42] <SWPadnos> right - RTAPI allows you to specify, right?
[00:42:52] <jmkasunich> if a thread is defined as supporting FP, then any function/module in that thread can use FP with no penalty
[00:42:53] <jmkasunich> yes
[00:43:22] <SWPadnos> there is a penalty, but it's only on thread switch, not between functions in the thread
[00:43:32] <jmkasunich> things like the digital only hardware drivers (parport, etc) and the fast stuff (stepgen, encoder) are integer only
[00:43:55] <SWPadnos> true - anything dealing with analog is probably on a slower update cycle as well
[00:44:04] <jmkasunich> right - so no additional penalty, once one module uses FP, and a high level module almost certainly does
[00:44:50] <jmkasunich> stepgen accepts a float command in a slow thread, which does the scaling and float to int conversion
[00:44:53] <SWPadnos> I gues sit depends on how you use the term "module"
[00:44:59] <jmkasunich> then the fast thread generates the steps
[00:45:09] <jmkasunich> yeah, module is badly overloaded
[00:45:16] <jmkasunich> (the word that is)
[00:45:32] <SWPadnos> yep - I think there were three or four different versions in the last 3 sentences :)
[00:45:47] <jmkasunich> I use component to refer to a hal "thing", like stepgen, or parport, or encoder
[00:46:05] <SWPadnos> so are stepgen and the stepgen helper in the same thread (or module)?
[00:46:29] <jmkasunich> stepgen is the component (implemented as a kernel module)
[00:46:50] <jmkasunich> it exports two functions, one uses fp, and is intended to be added to a slow thread
[00:47:04] <jmkasunich> the other uses integers and generates the steps, and is intended to be added to a fast thread
[00:47:20] <jmkasunich> it also exports several pins and parameters
[00:47:31] <jmkasunich> all that stuff is part of one component
[00:48:05] <SWPadnos> OK - and the callers have to mark themselves as float or not, depending on which of hte two functions they call
[00:48:24] <SWPadnos> (or is that automagic somehow?)
[00:48:30] <jmkasunich> when the function is exported, it is labeled as using fp math or not using fp math
[00:48:36] <SWPadnos> OK
[00:48:41] <jmkasunich> when a thread is created, it is also defined as fp capable or not
[00:48:58] <jmkasunich> the api won't let you add a function that needs fp to a thread that can't support it
[00:49:08] <SWPadnos> good deal
[00:49:37] <jmkasunich> do you have a system that can compile emc2 (head)?
[00:49:54] <SWPadnos> I don't think so - I only have kernel 2.6 systems ATM
[00:50:05] <jmkasunich> that would include BDI-2.xx, BDI-TNG, I think BDI-Live rc46, but not BDI-4.xx
[00:50:07] <jmkasunich> bummer
[00:50:24] <jmkasunich> the best way to get a handle on hal is to play around with it
[00:50:36] <SWPadnos> yep - I can probably boot a 2.4.something on my Gentoo box, but I haven't gone through the RT patches on any of those
[00:50:52] <SWPadnos> I think I've got a good handle on the overall design, and it looks good to me
[00:51:04] <jmkasunich> I'll be bringing at least one BDI-TNG box in addition to this one which is running BDI-4.20
[00:51:05] <SWPadnos> I just worry about the cycles at the bottom of the food chain :)
[00:51:38] <jmkasunich> a man after my own heart
[00:51:42] <SWPadnos> My real focus is to get a HAL-enabled USC / kernel 2.6 system going
[00:52:12] <jmkasunich> getting HAL (and the rest of emc2(head) to compile on 2.6 is high on my priority list too
[00:52:19] <SWPadnos> I like 2.6 for several reasons, and I can wait a bit to make my machine work
[00:52:23] <SWPadnos> (though I'd love to start making money with it)
[00:52:38] <SWPadnos> I thikn we can work on that at Fest
[00:52:43] <jmkasunich> hope so
[00:52:47] <SWPadnos> I'm glad Jon decided to go
[00:53:07] <jmkasunich> I have some learning to do about the kernel build system for 2.6
[00:53:27] <SWPadnos> It's not too hard - I'm not sure what the specific detail changes are
[00:53:42] <SWPadnos> I know it's easier to get modules compiled on 2.6
[00:53:49] <jmkasunich> things like .ko instead of .o, and needing to have a kernel source tree installed
[00:53:51] <SWPadnos> but not nevessarily to migrate a build system
[00:53:59] <jmkasunich> on 2.4, you only needed kernel headers
[00:54:23] <SWPadnos> true - you need the full make system installed for 2.6
[00:54:40] <SWPadnos> (makefile / kbuild stuff, not GNU make)
[00:55:18] <jmkasunich> the real trick is gonna be making it work under 2.6 without breaking it for 2.4
[00:55:23] <SWPadnos> but it's easier from the perspective of #DEFINE KERNEL and the ease of make SUBDIRS=.
[00:55:36] <SWPadnos> that could be an issue for kernel modules
[00:56:11] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna bring the compile farm along to allow for multi-platform builds
[00:56:26] <SWPadnos> that's the compaqs? :)
[00:56:27] <jmkasunich> (which reminds me, gotta install 4.20 on there, if it will fit)
[00:56:38] <jmkasunich> no, an old 8 slot blade server box
[00:56:46] <jmkasunich> pentium 200s
[00:56:52] <SWPadnos> cool
[00:57:05] <SWPadnos> so we can compile overnight :D
[00:57:22] <jmkasunich> 20 mins or so, depending on the distro
[00:57:35] <pfred1> clustered?
[00:57:43] <jmkasunich> BDI-2.xx compiles EMC about three times faster than BDI-Live rc46, on the same hardware
[00:58:05] <jmkasunich> pfred: basically 8 machines in one box, each has a different distro installed
[00:58:17] <pfred1> * pfred1 builds yet another mplayer with dts support hopefully ...
[00:58:54] <pfred1> the whole reason I got this DVD was because my pirate rip of this movie the sound is garbled in one spot
[00:58:54] <jmkasunich> SWP: here is the compile farm output: http://www.linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/
[00:59:38] <SWPadnos> what's the main difference between the two (2.whatever and rc46)?
[00:59:50] <pfred1> release candidate
[01:00:06] <SWPadnos> more likely kernel revision and X / text login
[01:00:07] <pfred1> means there was 45 before it that didn't cut it either I'd imagine
[01:00:30] <SWPadnos> got it - 2.2 vs. 2.4
[01:00:32] <jmkasunich> BDI-2 is based on RH 6.x, BDI-TNG is based on RH7.x, and Live is morphis/knoppix or something like that
[01:00:48] <pfred1> RH7.X was a classic
[01:00:48] <SWPadnos> morphix/knoppix/debian ;)
[01:01:02] <pfred1> one of the best Linux distros ever
[01:01:13] <pfred1> I still got a box here running 7.3
[01:01:30] <jmkasunich> yeah, I like BDI-TNG... but paul doesn't - RH did something that pissed him off, and he stopped supporting TNG
[01:01:43] <pfred1> yeah RH did stuff that pissed everyone off
[01:01:52] <pfred1> that's why I went to SuSE
[01:02:01] <jmkasunich> another differnece between the BDIs is that 2.xx uses RTLinux, TNG and later use RTAI
[01:02:14] <pfred1> but Debian has been pissing me off for years so ...
[01:05:35] <SWPadnos> interesting - BDI 2.18 uses cc as the compiler, TNG uses egcs, and rc46 uses gcc
[01:05:49] <pfred1> I swear Billy Gates is like the lead developer for Debian and he keeps it clunky just to keep Windows popular
[01:06:59] <jmkasunich> SWP: never noticed that before
[01:07:19] <SWPadnos> I was just flipping through the three EMC2 build logs, and noticed the differneces
[01:07:20] <jmkasunich> TNG uses egcs because it has a version of gcc that doesn't generate a good kernel
[01:07:33] <SWPadnos> right - the 2.96 debacle
[01:07:43] <pfred1> heh
[01:07:56] <pfred1> which really turned out to be bad assembler in the kernel
[01:07:56] <jmkasunich> (I was aware of the TNG vs Live difference, didn't realise that 2.18 did something different)
[01:08:28] <jmkasunich> I really should get the farm up and running again
[01:08:39] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, the latest rc46 build failed, so I can't see valid time comparisons
[01:08:50] <jmkasunich> which tree?
[01:08:59] <pfred1> rc47 here we come!
[01:09:01] <SWPadnos> it might be good to have the makefiles linked from that page as well
[01:09:08] <SWPadnos> emc tree
[01:09:17] <SWPadnos> and rcslib tree
[01:09:31] <SWPadnos> but these are from 10/25/04
[01:09:38] <SWPadnos> and 12/25/04
[01:09:39] <jmkasunich> emc1 and rcslib never really built well on BDI-Live.. you had to jump thru some hoops
[01:09:55] <jmkasunich> and the farm doesn't
[01:10:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:10:24] <jmkasunich> (something like replacing a couple of headers, or a script, or something... don't recall)
[01:10:34] <jmkasunich> the farm has been down since christmas
[01:10:47] <SWPadnos> that would explain it
[01:11:00] <jmkasunich> I powered it down while traveling, and there hasn't been much demand for it since then
[01:11:19] <SWPadnos> Actually - I have to run, I really need to get the LED thing going tonight (my friend is freaking out a bit since I'm leaving on Sunday)
[01:11:24] <jmkasunich> it was used fairly heavily during the development of the autoconfig branch which has since been merged
[01:11:41] <jmkasunich> ok, goodnight
[01:11:56] <SWPadnos> I'll chat later, but unfortunately not during either of the next two Sunday developer meetings
[01:12:14] <SWPadnos> (on a plane both days)
[01:12:16] <SWPadnos> thanks, see ya
[01:12:25] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[01:15:15] <Jymmm> ok, whos in ohio?
[01:17:10] <asdfqwega> Me.
[01:17:28] <jmkasunich> me
[01:17:47] <asdfqwega> ...in the middle of Bumfsck, Egypt
[01:17:48] <pfred1> what's round on both ends and high in the middle?
[01:18:38] <jmkasunich> lame
[01:18:54] <pfred1> jmkasunich no silly Ohio!
[01:19:20] <Jymmm> * Jymmm bets $5 he can guess jmkasunich phone number
[01:19:53] <jmkasunich> not gonna take that
[01:20:04] <Jymmm> and address, and yob
[01:20:07] <asdfqwega> jmk: disconnect, man! He's tracing you!
[01:20:09] <jmkasunich> aren't many "kasunich" in the phone book
[01:20:47] <Jymmm> ok, gimme a name and state
[01:21:16] <Jymmm> prefer alive
[01:21:16] <asdfqwega> Bierbower, in Wyoming
[01:21:23] <jmkasunich> Smith, John, Ohio
[01:21:26] <Jymmm> asdfqwega first name
[01:21:32] <asdfqwega> Garten
[01:22:01] <Jymmm> asdfqwega nothing found
[01:22:12] <asdfqwega> Heh...try Ohio
[01:22:53] <Jymmm> asdfqwega : gilmore Rd
[01:23:07] <asdfqwega> Found the online yellowpages, did you?
[01:23:14] <Jymmm> oh no, worse
[01:23:26] <asdfqwega> ...you've hacked the telco
[01:23:26] <Jymmm> yellowpages doens't have DOB's
[01:23:42] <Jymmm> ok another name and state
[01:24:02] <asdfqwega> Ashley Riggs, Nevada
[01:24:33] <Jymmm> no ashley's but some A.
[01:24:54] <asdfqwega> So, what database have you gotten your fingers into?
[01:25:04] <Jymmm> a background check db
[01:25:27] <Jymmm> it found ppl I know that are not using a computer too
[01:25:44] <asdfqwega> Reee-hee-heeeally...
[01:25:44] <Jymmm> old addresses and new addresses too
[01:26:23] <asdfqwega> Oh, what the heck
[01:26:42] <asdfqwega> Is there a URL? I'd like to see if I'm in there
[01:26:45] <Jymmm> so, got anyone you wanna hunt down?
[01:26:56] <asdfqwega> Not particularly...
[01:28:08] <asdfqwega> And if I did, I wouldn't be so goshe as to admit it in a public channel XD
[01:28:26] <pfred1> Jymmm how much you charging?
[01:30:53] <Jymmm> depends if ambulances or funeral homes are necessary =)
[01:31:25] <Jymmm> $40 USD otherwise
[01:31:34] <pfred1> my old BA used to tell me it was $200 as long as they weren't famous or anything
[01:32:10] <pfred1> life is so cheap ain't it?
[02:04:16] <dmess> High all... ; )==~~~
[02:04:27] <pfred1> hey there
[02:04:30] <jmkasunich> Low
[02:04:39] <pfred1> I could have gotten high today I turned it down though
[02:04:40] <dmess> why so??
[02:05:27] <pfred1> out of the habit
[02:05:29] <dmess> ah.. you can't get high on the ground anyway...
[02:05:48] <dmess> tomorrmow it looks like we fly...
[02:05:50] <pfred1> nah we'd have gone upstairs to have gotten high
[02:05:50] <Jymmm> dmess Death Valley 200+ ft BELOW sea level
[02:06:12] <pfred1> yewah we're on a mountain anyways so even on the ground we're fairly high
[02:06:24] <dmess> iv stood 7380 feet BGL
[02:07:08] <pfred1> I was working for a scaffolding company and i asked one of the employees once so how high have you gone on the job? he said like 4 joints ...
[02:07:13] <dmess> im still waiting to get that high in an unpowered wing..
[02:08:25] <pfred1> they were a crazy outfit
[02:08:38] <pfred1> they did like the Statue of Liberty
[02:08:45] <dmess> so was Macassa #3 shaft...
[02:09:14] <pfred1> they scaffolded a job once and the building they scaffolded burned to the ground
[02:09:23] <pfred1> but it didn't fall down the scaffold held it up
[02:09:40] <dmess> we went to hell on a sting...1.875" in diameter and 4 miles long
[02:10:25] <pfred1> Pos:2027.5s 49504f (29%) 87fps Trem: 22min 4053mb A-V:0.023 [4126:768]
[02:10:46] <pfred1> my copy copy rip which I'll transcode
[02:11:00] <dmess> plumb within .75 " 0ver 7380'
[02:11:54] <pfred1> man this is such cool software
[02:12:46] <andyg> that's about .0001% error
[02:12:59] <pfred1> yeah that's nice
[02:14:53] <andyg> hm 13 channels and nothing on
[02:15:22] <pfred1> get a friend with a netflicks account
[02:15:28] <pfred1> :)
[02:15:34] <Jymmm> andyg Do you know the difference between regular and cable tv?
[02:15:51] <jmkasunich> cable has 100 channels of crap, regular only has 13
[02:15:52] <pfred1> Jymmm netflicks is cooler than even cable
[02:16:05] <Jymmm> andyg With cable, it just takes longer to find out there's nothing on.
[02:16:15] <andyg> sure, with regular tv, you don't get 34kbps
[02:16:15] <Jymmm> pfred1 We have a netflix acnt
[02:16:15] <pfred1> tv.yahoo.com
[02:16:50] <andyg> I use t,yahoo.com
[02:16:58] <Jymmm> pfred1 already watched Elektra
[02:17:57] <pfred1> when i was on DSL I'd just download flicks out of usenet but with cable i have a usenet cap
[02:18:20] <pfred1> I was doing digital on demand years ago :)
[02:18:41] <andyg> with nutin on kinda makes my TiVo project pointless
[02:18:44] <pfred1> heck I got that last lord of the rings while it was still in the theatres
[02:19:03] <pfred1> beautiful rip of it
[02:20:25] <andyg> I'd like to find a video store with all 45 episodes of KungFu
[02:21:13] <pfred1> ha so!
[02:21:27] <pfred1> andyg you seen kill bill?
[02:21:30] <pfred1> he's in that
[02:21:54] <andyg> oh yeah
[02:22:21] <andyg> I laughed like hell when I realized he was bill
[02:24:12] <andyg> I need at least one episode, so the guy at work will understand why I say "very good Grasshopper", when he codes a loop from 0
[02:24:28] <pfred1> heh
[02:24:42] <pfred1> bruse lee was supposed to play the lead in that it was his project
[02:25:00] <pfred1> but they figured a chinese wouldn't sell in a US market so they ripped his idea off
[02:26:01] <andyg> but Kane was half american, not half chinese
[02:26:08] <andyg> um, wait a sec...
[02:26:31] <pfred1> nah it was bruce lee's idea they just stole it from him and screwed it up
[02:26:58] <pfred1> those were different times
[02:27:13] <andyg> yes they weere :sigh:
[02:27:31] <pfred1> when color TV didn't mean colored TV
[02:27:42] <andyg> life was simpler then, fewer haircuts
[02:27:42] <pfred1> or coloreds on TV!
[02:28:05] <pfred1> it simply wasn't done back then
[02:29:09] <pfred1> I think bruce lee would have been a hell of a lot better than david carridene
[02:29:12] <andyg> archie bunker
[02:29:19] <pfred1> man bruce lee kicked mad ass!
[02:29:46] <pfred1> all in the family broke a lot of TV boundries
[02:29:56] <andyg> I dunno i think D C played it pretty well
[02:30:03] <pfred1> man he's no bruce lee
[02:30:05] <andyg> yes it did
[02:30:09] <pfred1> nobody is no bruce lee
[02:30:31] <pfred1> when he played kato and kicked out the lite on the ceiling
[02:30:37] <pfred1> man that was wild stuff!
[02:30:41] <andyg> but wait there was a black family on tv...Kid DINOMITE
[02:31:23] <pfred1> I got a rip of the bruce lee story on my system someplace
[02:31:30] <andyg> what the heck was that show...the dad was never there, was wworking on the pipe line
[02:32:23] <andyg> remember the pipeline? financed almost as manay startups as coke in the 70's
[02:32:24] <pfred1> father don't know jack?
[02:32:55] <pfred1> the alaskan pipeline?
[02:32:58] <andyg> yes
[02:33:08] <pfred1> yeah I remember when it was getting built
[02:33:25] <pfred1> and they made the trucks with the special tires that wouldn't hurt the tundra supposedly
[02:33:35] <pfred1> some guy laid down let the truck run over him
[02:34:06] <pfred1> reminds me of this salesman I heard about
[02:34:15] <pfred1> he was demonstrating this unbreakable skylight
[02:34:20] <pfred1> and it broke under him
[02:34:23] <andyg> did he have an impact on the tundra?
[02:34:45] <pfred1> 9 stories into an empty pool
[02:34:46] <andyg> ouch
[02:34:50] <pfred1> yeah
[02:35:10] <pfred1> I hope the next salesman that showed up had some good bloodstain remover product
[02:35:12] <andyg> I've lost sales, but not quite htat damatic
[02:35:25] <pfred1> I don't think that guy was too worried
[02:35:30] <andyg> dramatic
[02:35:36] <andyg> heh, no
[02:35:51] <pfred1> you don't live through a 9 story drop into an epmty pool
[02:36:05] <pfred1> least he didn't ;)
[02:36:50] <andyg> mh I gotta find a air contitioner on sale
[02:39:54] <dmess> andy... ill sell you some ice
[02:40:36] <andyg> where did the water come from?
[02:41:05] <dmess> the top of the lake
[02:41:41] <dmess> but you better get you order in soon or its gets more $$$
[02:42:06] <andyg> na I can get lake ice
[02:47:27] <andyg> wait, does yours come with waleye or perch on top?
[02:52:44] <Phydbleep> andyg: Michigan?
[02:53:21] <andyg> Phydbleep, yes, how'd you guess?
[02:54:05] <Phydbleep> ~andy@
[02:54:36] <Phydbleep> That's too far to ship a cheap window unit.
[02:55:07] <Phydbleep> I hate refrigerated air and ended up with an air conditioner.
[02:55:48] <andyg> ah, yes my isp is showing
[02:56:28] <andyg> I'm moved down to the city recently and am dreading hot weather
[02:57:13] <Phydbleep> It's usually < 40% humidity here.. Evaporative coolers are the way to go...
[02:58:20] <andyg> heh it's usually 98% humidity here, unless it's really humid
[02:59:01] <andyg> Inoticed some of those ECs, hadn't seen them as a consumer product before
[02:59:16] <Phydbleep> I used to live in east Texas.. 110 degrees, 110% humidity.
[03:00:40] <andyg> I would die
[03:01:19] <andyg> here's one 5k BTU 83.95US, hm wonder where it was made...
[03:01:20] <Phydbleep> The EC here is ~ 30sqft of pad and is good for 120 outside to 75 inside. :)
[03:02:02] <andyg> yeah, I've hacked those befor, fan+towel+5gal bucket
[03:02:11] <Jymmm> http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/3c5ad59a/newcar.jpg&cb=20030927020448
[03:03:11] <andyg> Jymmm, is it for sale??
[03:03:12] <Phydbleep> ROFLMAO!... Man that must be a bitch of a drive with a hangover..
[03:04:42] <pfred1> Phydbleep Texas? Why nothing but steers and queers ever come out of Texas and i don't see any horns on you!
[03:05:46] <Jymmm> http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/584e5fac/doc.gif&cb=20030927020448
[03:08:25] <pfred1> damn there's tags left on that? they all must be queers there!
[03:08:29] <andyg> I wonder if that guy is WEPed
[03:10:20] <pfred1> all in the name of science
[03:10:41] <andyg> cool google logo is it mike angelo's birthday?
[03:10:59] <pfred1> ah
[03:11:06] <pfred1> davinci painted that
[03:11:41] <pfred1> and last i heard it's getting moved
[03:12:07] <andyg> oop da vinci
[03:12:12] <pfred1> mike painted the ceilings
[03:12:26] <andyg> right, thanks
[03:13:41] <andyg> can i copy that? does google own the copywrite, gad life is complicated
[03:14:00] <pfred1> I donno I been saving googles for a while now
[03:14:11] <pfred1> whenever they put up special ones i save them
[03:14:39] <pfred1> it's a hobby of mine collecting them :)
[03:14:51] <andyg> this is my first
[03:16:09] <pfred1> andyg well here catch up to me then
[03:18:00] <pfred1> ha the filename is even da_vinci on it
[03:18:06] <andyg> yep
[03:18:21] <andyg> thanks pfred1, mabe another time
[03:18:24] <pfred1> I'm a pretty big fan of da vinci tho so I know his work
[03:18:44] <andyg> he was a geat hacker
[03:18:56] <andyg> great
[03:20:06] <andyg> heck he probably even predicted nostradomas
[03:20:12] <pfred1> I guess
[03:20:22] <pfred1> the da vinci code is some strange stuff
[03:22:27] <pfred1> oh look CNC octopus feeding http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/04/15/octopus.love.ap/index.html
[03:22:37] <andyg> I'm ignorant of it
[03:22:43] <pfred1> Every hour, food was being dispensed through an electronic, automatic feeder.
[03:23:36] <pfred1> Initially we thought maybe it was a fluke," DeCastro said. "But it turned out to be a Flounder!"
[03:23:48] <andyg> gotta go
[03:24:12] <Jymmm> http://carcino.gen.nz/images/image.php/778bb5d1/SafeSex_1.gif&cb=20030313004903
[03:29:21] <Phydbleep> pfred1: The wife would disagree, I keep my human-horn hidden when not in use to deter alien poachers.
[03:30:25] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was muzzling a dog with it's own sphincter.
[04:08:38] <Jymmm> anon not around =(
[08:28:24] <Phydbleep> Damn it's dead in here...
[08:28:29] <Phydbleep> Phydbleep has changed the topic to:
[08:28:29] <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General linux discussions and support the rest of the week.
[11:28:21] <A-L-P-H-A> les, what's the proper method of grinding stuff?
[11:32:21] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A " everything at a 45 degree angle =)
[11:32:42] <A-L-P-H-A> :P
[11:45:17] <Jymmm> Eeeeesh... I'm on a 21" CRT and running a resolution of 1920 x 1440 and everything still looks too large, like it's cluttering up the screen.
[11:49:10] <SWP_Away> oh, the horror
[11:50:48] <Jymmm> SWP_Away ain't it though! =)
[11:51:32] <SWP_Away> I also suffer from terrible monitor problems - there are borders between my three 19" monitors :D
[11:51:45] <Jymmm> I just feel for those that dont have such a large screen available to them
[11:51:53] <Jymmm> lol
[11:51:56] <SWP_Away> I mean, it's not a seamless 3840x1024 display - I can barely cope
[11:52:12] <Jymmm> lcd or crt ?
[11:52:17] <SWP_Away> triple CRT
[11:52:22] <Jymmm> ewwwww
[11:52:24] <SWP_Away> (not much desk space left over)
[11:52:34] <Jymmm> or cold air either
[11:52:36] <SWP_Away> I may change to dual 1600x1200 LCD soon
[11:53:02] <Jymmm> 32" might be nice
[11:53:10] <Jymmm> err 24" 16:9
[11:53:15] <SWP_Away> too big - I hope to get an IBM T221
[11:53:31] <SWP_Away> 22.2 inch, 3840x2400 resolution (!)
[11:53:40] <Jymmm> lcd?
[11:53:47] <SWP_Away> it's 200 pixels per inch
[11:53:49] <SWP_Away> yes
[11:55:57] <Jymmm> this is messed up....
[11:56:03] <Jymmm> The back side is more interesting - besides the power and USB (for firmware flashing only) port, there are two high-density custom connectors - each connects to two DVI cables for a maximum of four DVI connections. Why so many? Because DVI supports only up to 1920x1200 resolution at the 60Hz refresh, one-quarter of T221. So, in order to get the 3840x2400 native resolution, you'd need, according to IBM, at least two DVI connections from a single card at once (to ge
[11:56:51] <nevyn> yeah
[11:56:54] <nevyn> it sucks.
[11:56:58] <SWP_Away> that's the one :)
[11:57:05] <nevyn> DVI has a big bandwidth problem
[11:57:11] <SWP_Away> nope - it has a slow refresh, but the image is stunning
[11:57:21] <SWP_Away> (oh - DVI sucks - yeah)
[11:57:25] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[11:58:37] <Jymmm> http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8578
[11:59:26] <SWPadnos> I saw one at Photokina - it was displaying a satellite image, and it looked like a shuttle window
[11:59:34] <SWPadnos> (not the monitor, but the image)
[12:00:02] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, I have the same issue with my 3 19" monitors...
[12:00:05] <Jymmm> yeah, that's what this article is saying "hpoto quality"
[12:00:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:00:14] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 09:15:08 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (0% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 816/1024MB (79.69%), C: 47.61gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 49.11gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 2days 21hrs 43mins 32secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[12:00:20] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A well GLUE them together =)
[12:00:41] <A-L-P-H-A> all running at 1280x1024x32bit
[12:00:45] <SWPadnos> I just don't know if I'll be able to see text on that screen
[12:00:51] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. + the TV.
[12:01:02] <SWPadnos> Ah - you have multiple video cards
[12:01:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I have two.
[12:01:15] <A-L-P-H-A> one AGP, and one PCI.
[12:01:23] <SWPadnos> probably ATI, considering where you live :)
[12:01:29] <A-L-P-H-A> yup
[12:01:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I know too many people that work at ATI.
[12:01:43] <SWPadnos> I have a single Matrox
[12:02:12] <dmess> hi all..
[12:02:15] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahah.
[12:02:25] <A-L-P-H-A> all the Matrox engineers moved to ATI.
[12:02:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Matrox is deadwood.
[12:02:34] <dmess> i have multiple ATI as well...
[12:02:43] <SWPadnos> yeah - a few went to NVidia
[12:03:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Matrox has a R&D in Ontario... so they mainly went to ATI.
[12:03:37] <dmess> after they waited their mandatory 90 days of course
[12:03:52] <SWPadnos> it's pretty sad - the image quality and multihead features are outstanding, but they couldn't make the Parhelia work quite right, and then ATI came out with the radeon 9xxx line, and stomped everyone
[12:04:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got two 9200's in my box.
[12:05:24] <dmess> 9200 upstairs and a 9600+ in the wifes box.. a bunch af agp's rage 3d etc in a box
[12:05:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I like ATI... they're Canadian. :)
[12:05:55] <dmess> ive been using them since they came out
[12:06:11] <A-L-P-H-A> I had pre ATI rage stuff.
[12:06:18] <A-L-P-H-A> who merged with TRident?
[12:06:55] <dmess> not sure
[12:08:00] <A-L-P-H-A> oh well. not a matter.
[12:08:03] <A-L-P-H-A> breakfast time.
[12:08:24] <SWPadnos> 3dlabs, I think
[12:34:49] <Jymmm> damn canook!
[12:39:15] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, sorry that you're a yank. Just happens that your genetic stock isn't worthy of Canada. :)
[12:39:54] <A-L-P-H-A> wow, I'm still hungry... but I ate a full meal already.
[12:40:02] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A too bad you canook's just dont have any balls! =)
[12:40:16] <Jymmm> oh yeah, Iforgot.... Eh
[12:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, sorry. we don't feel like occupying, and having our citizens in a coutry that doesn't want us.
[12:41:02] <A-L-P-H-A> hey! look... we have a crook as our leader, you guys just have a monkey.
[12:41:12] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A A lil backwards there... we didn't want them (King of England)
[12:41:27] <A-L-P-H-A> what are you smoking?
[12:42:10] <Jymmm> oh you talking the war shit... well like I said... you canooks are just on our coattails is all.
[12:42:46] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, ever think of why the rest of the world doesn't like America?
[12:43:02] <Jymmm> Casue we have the balls to speak up
[12:43:23] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, if you think that... my point is proven.
[12:43:46] <Jymmm> When was the last time Canada did something/anything for another country?
[12:43:58] <Jymmm> that wasn't a smartass question either.
[12:44:21] <A-L-P-H-A> 2004 Tsunami relief.
[12:44:47] <Jymmm> Everyone around the global did something there.
[12:45:16] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, do you remember the looks people gave at the USA? When they were trying to cheap out?
[12:45:29] <Jymmm> huh?
[12:47:06] <Jymmm> I dont keep up with political events too often
[12:47:16] <Jymmm> I hate the news too
[12:47:37] <Jymmm> too fuckign depressing
[12:47:46] <SWPadnos> the fine US of A offered a whopping $15 million for tsunami relief
[12:48:04] <A-L-P-H-A> $15mil? heh.
[12:48:18] <Jymmm> ok, and the problem with that?
[12:48:20] <SWPadnos> which was then increased to $350M after everyone in the world said - "wow, what a bunch of cheap bastards"
[12:48:32] <A-L-P-H-A> The USA is hated by the majority of the world, because of the audacity that they believe that they have the sole right to be the world police.
[12:48:46] <SWPadnos> Well - $15 million is less than we spend on security for Pres. Bush's vacations
[12:49:05] <SWPadnos> (which he takes more often and for longer than any other president in history)
[12:49:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I have no issues with most of the American people... just the American political agenda, that hoodwinks most of their population anyways.
[12:49:57] <SWPadnos> it is amazing
[12:50:15] <A-L-P-H-A> amazing what?
[12:50:25] <Jymmm> so, ppl are whingin about USA and $15Mil, what has these other countries done for other places?
[12:50:33] <SWPadnos> I like the quote (paraphrased) by a leader of the Soviet Union - "wow, your propaganda machine really works, and the people don't even suspect it"
[12:50:34] <Jymmm> pre tsunami
[12:50:57] <SWPadnos> Well - other, less wealthy countries, were pledging hundreds of millions at the time
[12:51:09] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm? do you actually read?
[12:51:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos : Oh, I suspect it, just dealing with it in my own silent ways =)
[12:51:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[12:51:22] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A scroll back
[12:51:39] <A-L-P-H-A> So stop asking questions you can quickly research.
[12:51:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder is there an "anti-america.com" website?
[12:51:57] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I said PRE-Tsunami
[12:52:33] <SWPadnos> we in the US have no idea what has been happening in, e.g. Sri Lanka
[12:52:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, what humanatarian aid/relief do you want to talk about?
[12:52:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos not sure if we want to know
[12:52:57] <SWPadnos> We only know that the terrible Tamil Tigers are terrorists, and that the beaches are nice for vacationing
[12:53:04] <SWPadnos> Except that that's not true
[12:53:23] <SWPadnos> I have a friend whose family is from Sri Lanka
[12:53:39] <SWPadnos> She was scheduled to go there last December 26, but that trip was postponed for obvious reasons
[12:53:44] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A oh, so if a country is in political trouble, Canada doesn't help?
[12:53:56] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, just because you're ignorant (not insulting you), does not mean other countries are not doing anything. Oh hey... look, I don't see it print, so it must mean there's nothing happening.
[12:54:26] <SWPadnos> The amount of world information that we in the US miss is staggering
[12:54:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, :) I'll take it that you're trying to goad me, and that you really aren't that big of a moron. :)
[12:54:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos It's a case of TMI
[12:54:45] <SWPadnos> My father in law had never even *heard* of the BBC until last year
[12:54:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Wow!
[12:55:09] <SWPadnos> no it's not - it's a case of unimportant things being plastered all over the news, when important things are ignored
[12:55:25] <SWPadnos> He was wondering what the funny accents were when I flipped on PBS
[12:55:41] <SWPadnos> and this is pretty normal for the midwest
[12:55:53] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I'm serious for a sec... There are 3rd world countries in political demise. I don't hear of Canada or other coutnries saying "We'll give you a hand here". Please correct me if I'm mistake
[12:55:58] <SWPadnos> It's much more important to people to keep up with the latest sports news than anything political
[12:56:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, we vote, and support UN actions. We have UN forces all over the freak'n place.
[12:56:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Like I said... we're flood with too much info.
[12:56:54] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Not UN, Canada itself, individually
[12:57:06] <A-L-P-H-A> humanatarian relief/aid where ever we are welcomed.
[12:57:20] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A : I said political assistance, not humanitarian
[12:57:22] <SWPadnos> right, but it's because some company decided that Nascar news is more important than what's happening in the world
[12:57:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos It's is damnit!
[12:57:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, if we went to a country without invitation, we'd be the US. Occupying countries.
[12:57:41] <andyg> wait a moment, the US Midwest is one of the sanest regions in the world, the east and west coasts are a mess
[12:57:59] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, we are not out to meddle with other countries political affairs.
[12:58:06] <Jymmm> andyg only cause you bored out of your minds! =)
[12:58:11] <A-L-P-H-A> We aren't out to impose our thoughts and ideas out on the REST of the world.
[12:58:29] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A so, now we've come full circle to what I originally said... no bawls
[12:58:47] <Jymmm> =)
[12:58:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm. So lets say we have a big country, imposing their thoughts and belief on a small country? that makes it right?
[12:59:00] <SWPadnos> http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/COUNTRIES/CANADA/0,,contentMDK:20421813~pagePK:217711~piPK:217716~theSitePK:228707,00.html
[12:59:18] <andyg> Jymm, right, please don't come here you'd just be bored, NYC is nice this time of year
[12:59:30] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos. :) thanks.
[12:59:36] <SWPadnos> np
[12:59:52] <SWPadnos> there's a fine line between bravery and stupidity
[13:00:05] <andyg> ah, if ya wann know what the former ruler of Iraq was like, watch the Sopranos
[13:00:09] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm's just one of those stupid brain washed republicans.
[13:00:30] <SWPadnos> helping others do what *they* want takes more balls than hitting them with a stick until they do what *you* want
[13:00:35] <andyg> I personaly was brought up to stand up to bullies, and won't appologise for it
[13:00:39] <A-L-P-H-A> not the informed republicans.
[13:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> andyg? who was bullying who?
[13:01:19] <SWPadnos> the midwest is full of nice people, who don't have enough information to make good decisions
[13:01:21] <A-L-P-H-A> Don't tell me Sadam. Cause he was contained.
[13:01:29] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, that I can believe.
[13:01:37] <andyg> A-L-P-H-A, think World Trade Center
[13:01:41] <A-L-P-H-A> Same with many parts of Canada though.
[13:02:11] <SWPadnos> andyg: that's the whole point - there was *NO* link between Iraq and the WTC - but half the country still thinks there was
[13:02:17] <A-L-P-H-A> andyg? and...? You dessimated Al Queda.
[13:02:45] <Jymmm> Shit.... Our gov KNEW about 9/11 before it even happened.
[13:02:46] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos... welcome to the genius spin doctors that work in the government. :)
[13:02:57] <SWPadnos> there are as many links between the Bush family and the Bin Laden family as there were between Al-Qaeda and Iraq
[13:03:36] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, actually shit loads of links between them.. except AlQaeda+Iraq.
[13:03:49] <A-L-P-H-A> Bush - Bin Laden. Bush and Iraq.
[13:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> all about money and oil holdings.
[13:04:01] <andyg> SWPadnos, if sone one burned you garage, and I said to you, I wish I had done it, I think the arson deserves a prize, what do you think of me?
[13:04:05] <SWPadnos> yeah - the indirect link through the oil-baron president ;)
[13:04:35] <A-L-P-H-A> andyg. shit then. half the world needs to be nuked.
[13:04:39] <SWPadnos> I'm glad you didn't get the chance, but I wouldn't prosecute you for wanting me to have no garage
[13:04:51] <SWPadnos> if you were the one who did it, then I'd prosecute
[13:04:54] <A-L-P-H-A> cause most think it's the US that's the dickhead of the world. :) there's gotta be a reason why they believe this.
[13:05:02] <SWPadnos> and yes, I'll shoot you if you try to take my property
[13:05:11] <andyg> anyway, talk to the young men in the service, that are in Iraq ask then what the citizens think
[13:05:34] <SWPadnos> I'm no pacifist, but I also don't believe in war for foolish economic or personal reasons
[13:05:36] <Jymmm> so... anyone use emc in here?
[13:05:46] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: heh - I'm trying
[13:05:47] <andyg> A-L-P-H-A, reason???? mabe CNN?
[13:05:52] <Jymmm> SWPadnos =)
[13:06:10] <andyg> Jymmm, thanks I'm done :)
[13:06:19] <SWPadnos> actually, I'd say it's the US media that convinces us that we're *not* assholes
[13:06:44] <andyg> heh the "media" never convinced me of anything
[13:06:49] <Jymmm> Well, Bush is the true asshole
[13:07:00] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, are you a republican?
[13:07:00] <andyg> I'm gonna go garage saleing for a emc host
[13:07:04] <SWPadnos> King of the Assholes, I'd say
[13:07:14] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I'm non political
[13:07:23] <A-L-P-H-A> Rumsfield was bigger.
[13:07:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I still think Bush doesn't have a real thought of his own. Puppet of big business.
[13:08:43] <Jymmm> andyg : Just curious... Do you think there was anything the US Gov could have done to prevent 9/11 from happening?
[13:08:49] <andyg> dose the emc "distro" include and grafic simulation capabilities?
[13:08:53] <SWPadnos> well - this is all interesting, but I've got to run - I hope you're all still alive next week :)
[13:09:04] <andyg> Jymmm, probably not
[13:09:09] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[13:09:59] <andyg> Jymmm, security is inversly proportional to freedom, I err on the side of freedom
[13:10:03] <Jymmm> andyg : Then take a peek at this... http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon244.swf
[13:11:46] <andyg> could we have done anything about Pearl Harbor, the Maine? this question is not a new one
[13:14:14] <andyg> * andyg looks for tinfoil hat
[13:20:15] <Jymmm> andyg you should look at that clip
[13:21:49] <andyg> Jymmm, I did thanks
[13:22:22] <Jymmm> andyg That was a BIG eye opener at least for me.
[13:24:32] <andyg> I'll see if Ican confirm it from other sources
[13:25:10] <andyg> I'm off to see the wider world, have a great day all
[13:25:55] <Jymmm> C ya andyg
[13:31:12] <dan_falck> rayh: good morning
[13:33:00] <dan_falck> Hal May is bringing his EMC computer over this morning. I'm going to try to help him sort through some things.
[13:33:31] <rayh> Hi Dan.
[13:33:46] <rayh> Good. he's called a couple times.
[13:34:26] <dan_falck> I told hime that we would set up the box on the dining room table and keep close to the internet connection for reference.
[13:34:44] <Jymmm> dan_falck : Got WiFi? =)
[13:34:51] <dan_falck> I might be calling you later on.
[13:35:13] <dan_falck> no WiFi. Just this Mac Cube connected to DSL
[13:35:23] <rayh> No problem. I'll be around.
[13:35:48] <Jymmm> dan_falck for ethernet router?
[13:35:54] <Jymmm> dan_falck no ethernet router?
[13:35:55] <dan_falck> He's running two different mills at seperate times with one computer
[13:35:58] <rayh> But paul_c knows much more than I.
[13:36:18] <rayh> These are stepper?
[13:36:29] <dan_falck> Jymmm: I have a wire ethernet cable running under the floor of the living room.
[13:36:29] <A-L-P-H-A> strippers? where?
[13:36:34] <A-L-P-H-A> rayh, you having the party?
[13:36:44] <dan_falck> rayh: yes steppers
[13:37:00] <rayh> You bet. 55 gal drum full of your favorite.
[13:37:12] <dan_falck> rayh: last weekend I think I talked him through setting the seperate run files, over the phone.
[13:37:18] <rayh> Steaks and chicken on the grill
[13:37:31] <rayh> Oh. Okay.
[13:37:35] <A-L-P-H-A> is 55 gallons = 200L?
[13:37:36] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A paint strippers
[13:37:56] <rayh> You could do that with a single run and ...run -ini hal1.ini
[13:38:18] <rayh> A bit more than that 250?
[13:38:35] <dan_falck> rayh: seperate icons that run different bash scripts, right?
[13:38:38] <Jymmm> 55 US gallons = 208.197649 liters
[13:38:45] <rayh> and ...run -ini hal2.ini
[13:38:59] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A FYI... http://www.google.com/search?q=55gal+to+liters&sa=Search+Google
[13:39:11] <rayh> Separate icons with the same run command but different ini files named.
[13:39:13] <rayh> I
[13:39:32] <rayh> t's an newer thing that paul has worked up.
[13:39:44] <rayh> typoing 101 practice again.
[13:39:48] <dan_falck> rayh: like emc.run -ini hal1.ini
[13:39:52] <A-L-P-H-A> Isn't there like two types of gallons?
[13:40:15] <rayh> Yes there are at least 2
[13:40:36] <rayh> Yep dan_falck.
[13:40:53] <dan_falck> rayh: thanks
[13:41:02] <rayh> I believe that Paul has most of the sudo commands added to the latest run
[13:41:15] <rayh> so that you can start it as an ordinary user.
[13:41:33] <rayh> so long as hal is in the /etc/sudoers file.
[13:41:50] <rayh> and has nopasswd access.
[13:42:45] <dan_falck> rayh: Hal said that when he turned on emc his dro readouts where all reading .006"
[13:43:04] <rayh> This sudo is standard install with bdi-4xx
[13:43:11] <dan_falck> rayh: so, I figured he has something set in the var file
[13:43:34] <rayh> Deadband or var or home values in the ini.
[13:44:09] <rayh> Although deadband should random if it's larger than that.
[13:44:41] <dan_falck> ok, will check them out
[13:44:41] <rayh> Seems like it could also be backlash comp although it should
[13:44:56] <rayh> not be applied until after the first direction reversal.
[13:45:24] <dan_falck> could be
[13:45:49] <dan_falck> he said that when he commanded it to go 1.000 it actually went .994
[13:45:58] <rayh> If I remember the conversation,...
[13:46:13] <dan_falck> I asked if the dro were really reading -.006 and he said "no"
[13:46:15] <rayh> Hal started with emc.ini rather than generic.ini
[13:47:10] <rayh> I see that there is an ff1 value of 0.077 in the "official" version
[13:47:32] <rayh> This would cause the direction bit to dither.
[13:47:56] <rayh> And with a P of 1000 it would dither a lot.
[13:49:44] <rayh> I'm thinking that ff1, P, and a big backlash could do just that.
[13:50:14] <rayh> You've got an interesting day ahead of you dan_falck
[13:50:51] <dan_falck> rayh: Ok, I will check it out. I will keep the phone handy.
[13:51:14] <rayh> I think I'll be on here for a while today.
[13:51:26] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[13:51:31] <rayh> Tell the fam hi from us.
[13:51:36] <dan_falck> he seems happy enough with EMC. He did get some carving done this week
[13:51:38] <dan_falck> ok
[13:52:10] <dan_falck> he used to have an Ah-Ha system and he says that EMC is better
[13:52:43] <dan_falck> being able to change the feed over ride on the fly helped him out a lot
[13:52:59] <dan_falck> you can't do that on the Ah-Ha system that he had
[13:53:03] <rayh> Tell Hal hi also. He's got a lot of courage/curiosity for his age.
[13:53:19] <rayh> Yep.
[13:53:45] <dan_falck> he does. 2 weeks ago, he bought a new computer from Fry's and installed BDI 4.20 right away
[13:53:54] <rayh> feed override and feed hold are not negotiable.
[13:54:13] <rayh> I told him to get a bunch of em for me at 180 or whatever he paid.
[13:54:59] <dan_falck> I think it was a 1 per person sale
[13:55:04] <dan_falck> 1 day only
[13:55:15] <dan_falck> I looked into it the day after the sale...
[13:55:17] <rayh> Fake identity time...
[13:55:49] <rayh> That's me also.
[13:56:08] <rayh> I did get one of those WalMart specials a couple years ago.
[13:56:29] <rayh> 199 with preloaded lindows.
[13:57:12] <jmk_away> what do you get for $199?
[13:57:42] <rayh> EPIA mb 800 via 128 meg 133 ram.
[13:57:57] <rayh> cd reader and floppy.
[13:58:15] <rayh> It's still one of my build boxes,
[13:58:19] <jmk_away> case and PS I assume?
[13:58:41] <jmk_away> onboard video and shared video ram?
[13:58:56] <rayh> 2.18 2.20b, live 4c46, and a bastard child Paul and I built.
[13:59:04] <rayh> Yep.
[13:59:24] <rayh> 4 meg video and 15 color.
[13:59:40] <rayh> It's a mess on the 2xx stuff but not bad with live.
[13:59:46] <jmk_away> I finally upgraded here
[14:00:01] <jmk_away> put a new PS, mobo, cpu, ram and video into one of my old cases
[14:00:05] <rayh> and I connect it to my Sherline so I can hear the pulsetrain.
[14:00:30] <jmk_away> $302, less $60 in rebates which I'm getting ready to mail right now
[14:00:41] <rayh> Nice.
[14:01:15] <rayh> Smithy built around a 2.6 celeron with agp video the other day.
[14:02:00] <rayh> I built a 2.6 Semperon (amd) for Maxine
[14:02:17] <jmk_away> this is a 1.666GHz AMD Sempron, they call it a 2200+
[14:02:24] <rayh> for stuff like gimp, ooffice, lyx
[14:02:31] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hates rebates
[14:02:36] <jmk_away> correction 2400+
[14:02:52] <jmk_away> jymmm: why?
[14:02:58] <rayh> Flies through gimp rendering.
[14:03:15] <rayh> Nice. Have you got 2.6 on it?
[14:03:22] <Jymmm> jmk_away : You are getting paid to be placed on a Mailing list that gets sold
[14:03:26] <jmk_away> yep, BDI-4.20
[14:03:39] <rayh> Fantastic.
[14:04:03] <rayh> How do you like the kate editor?
[14:04:35] <jmk_away> I've used kate as my main programming editor since I started coding on emc, that was the version with BDI-TNG
[14:04:42] <stevestallings> Ray - is Smithy still marketing the CNC mill? Will it be at NAMES again?
[14:04:51] <rayh> Okay.
[14:04:53] <jmk_away> I must say there are some things about the latest kate I like less than the older one
[14:05:14] <rayh> Some of the highlighting is'nt perfect.
[14:05:54] <rayh> as are the left edge of the edit dock markings.
[14:06:04] <jmk_away> yeah, the old one would sometimes miss the end of a comment, and treat the entire remainder of the file as comments
[14:06:12] <SWP_Away> you can change the hilighting styles Kate uses (and KWrite - anything that uses the KWrite KPart as its editor)
[14:06:13] <rayh> bookmarks work great
[14:06:20] <jmk_away> the dock things were annoying, till I turned them off
[14:06:46] <rayh> I like the multiple file open thing.
[14:06:53] <Jymmm> SWP_Away doesn't kwrite still have a few issues with it?
[14:07:03] <Jymmm> or am I thinking kmail?
[14:07:03] <rayh> Great for copy and paste with gcode.
[14:07:07] <SWP_Away> It may - I normally use Kate
[14:07:18] <jmk_away> I don't like the way the new one handles the file/directory window, in the old version it was always there, in the new, you have to click to open, and it covers part of the edit window
[14:07:31] <SWP_Away> I don't know about the more "word-processor-ish" functions - I use OO
[14:07:37] <rayh> Okay. I've got your answer.
[14:08:00] <rayh> show the files, click the little middle icon right above them.
[14:08:15] <rayh> That separates the docks so you see both at once.
[14:08:32] <rayh> then go into settings and ask kate to keep the configuration.
[14:08:46] <rayh> Close it down with a few files on both sides.
[14:09:02] <rayh> and when you reopen it it will come back to that config.
[14:09:14] <rayh> Now remove the files.
[14:09:20] <rayh> and save again.
[14:09:30] <rayh> open again and turn off the save last config.
[14:09:48] <rayh> Kind of a nusance and there may well be easier ways.
[14:10:45] <jmk_away> it's working - thanks!
[14:10:47] <rayh> The little icon above the file names is a box.
[14:11:03] <rayh> Welcome. Brute force is one of my best acts.
[14:11:27] <rayh> I should put a page on the wiki.
[14:11:33] <jmk_away> gotta go for a bit... back later
[14:12:04] <rayh> Oh btw Paul has a bit of a surprise for 4.20 at codeFest.
[14:12:22] <jmk_away> whats that?
[14:12:51] <rayh> He told me not to spill it or he'd ask the desk for random wake up calls.
[14:13:18] <rayh> (we are sharing a room)
[14:13:37] <jmk_away> if he really wanted it to be a surprize, why do you (and he) keep hinting about it?
[14:14:07] <rayh> It's a ploy to get more folk out.
[14:14:19] <Jymmm> and if you're sharing a room, wouldn't random wake-up calls wake him up too?
[14:14:58] <rayh> I did that sort of thing in the college dorm.
[14:15:01] <jmk_away> not neccessarily - Paul might already be awake - he keeps strange hours
[14:15:14] <rayh> set the alarm, for 3 and take a sleeping pill.
[14:15:23] <Jymmm> lol
[14:16:08] <jmk_away> jmk_away is now known as jmk_really_away
[14:16:19] <rayh> catch you later, john.
[14:19:21] <Jymmm> That is the weirdest thing... goin thru some cad totorials, making a pipe shape with multiple elbows, and one of the lengths looks like fan folded heat sink!
[14:22:58] <dmess> which cad??
[14:30:37] <dan_falck> Jymmm: what program are you working with?
[15:28:44] <pfred1> ah that was fun Garbage saling
[16:20:30] <dan_falck> rayh: are you around?
[16:21:20] <dan_falck> rayh: we got things working on Hal's computer. Deadband was the problem. It was set to .0006.
[16:59:51] <jmk_really_away> jmk_really_away is now known as jmkasunich
[17:47:50] <jmkasunich> meep
[17:56:05] <Imperator_> Hi John
[17:59:41] <jmkasunich> Hi Martin
[18:00:25] <Imperator_> quiet today
[18:00:38] <jmkasunich> yeah
[18:00:47] <jmkasunich> I'm sorting thru the mess in the basement
[18:01:01] <SWP_Away> I live in the mess in the basement
[18:01:27] <jmkasunich> same here, but I'm starting to worry about collapse
[18:01:39] <Imperator_> have sorted the balls into a ball screw
[18:01:42] <SWP_Away> heh - I may need to have a client visit sometime, so I'll need to clean as well
[18:02:01] <jmkasunich> Imperator... that's always so much fun ;-)
[18:02:08] <Imperator_> :-)
[18:02:39] <jmkasunich> its a shame most folks are flying to the fest... otherwise I could bring a truckload of stuff and give it away to clear out my basement
[18:02:41] <Imperator_> tought i can use a rolled paper to keep them inside while removing the nut from the screw
[18:02:55] <SWP_Away> well - I can bring an extra suitcase :)
[18:03:16] <jmkasunich> waddya need
[18:03:40] <SWP_Away> Not sure - probably panel switches and lights
[18:03:43] <jmkasunich> got computer parts, some motors, misc electronics
[18:03:48] <Imperator_> two ball screws 2000mm long 32mm diameter
[18:04:07] <pfred1> Imperator_ 6 foot?
[18:04:07] <SWP_Away> I'd love to fiddle with a BLDC motor, so if Ray doesn't need all of those, one would be nice
[18:04:24] <jmkasunich> how about a linear BLDC (AC servo) motor?
[18:04:31] <Imperator_> jep 6 foot
[18:04:41] <SWP_Away> Cool - as long as I can find docs on it
[18:04:57] <Imperator_> linear motors are fun
[18:05:02] <pfred1> I'm getting my big truck on the 26th here
[18:05:15] <jmkasunich> http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/cabinet.jpg
[18:05:28] <Imperator_> i mean I need that two ball screws :-)
[18:05:34] <SWP_Away> I remember that - I like the control box on top
[18:05:54] <SWP_Away> I think you said Ray has dibs on the motors though
[18:05:55] <jmkasunich> see the gray panel under the computer? with all the lighted buttons?
[18:06:02] <SWP_Away> yes
[18:06:10] <pfred1> jmkasunich planning on killing osmeone and dumping them into the water?
[18:06:22] <SWP_Away> that's what the case is for ;)
[18:06:22] <jmkasunich> I have a tupperware container with all the buttons and such from a similar panel
[18:06:23] <pfred1> stuffing them into that case i bet they never come up!
[18:06:35] <SWP_Away> d00d!
[18:06:42] <pfred1> I got a boat anchor today at the dumps myself
[18:07:05] <A-L-P-H-A> damn, is Jymmm, Kenneth mcNamara??
[18:07:10] <pfred1> I picked up this marble statue there someone had tossed onto the stone pile it must weigh close to 300 pounds
[18:07:20] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, system, not machine
[18:07:28] <jmkasunich> SWP: does that mean I should bring the container?
[18:07:29] <SWP_Away> I was wondering that, but that question is about the computer, not the machine
[18:07:37] <SWP_Away> How much does it weigh?
[18:07:40] <pfred1> hey i got a question about physics
[18:07:44] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_Away. :) heh. wasn't just me.
[18:07:51] <jmkasunich> 3-4 lbs
[18:07:52] <SWP_Away> right
[18:07:52] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1... E=MC^2
[18:08:00] <pfred1> how come objects weigh less when you're picking them up for free than when you get them home to unload them?
[18:08:12] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, relativity.
[18:08:27] <pfred1> I mean the weight difference is always substantial
[18:08:28] <SWP_Away> Because you're excited when you get the good deal, so you're pumping adrenaline - once you get home, it's work to unload them ;)
[18:08:42] <pfred1> I grab stuff chuck it into the truck then get it home the weight seems to double!
[18:08:45] <jmkasunich> and even more work to move all the rest of the crap to make a spot for them
[18:09:23] <pfred1> and I'm like why the hell did i pick up this heavy thing?
[18:09:35] <pfred1> but the statue it's really nice
[18:10:04] <pfred1> I'll put her into my fountain in my new place
[18:10:23] <pfred1> it's like church quality stuff
[18:11:24] <A-L-P-H-A> hey hey AJ.
[18:11:29] <alex_joni> hey alpha
[18:11:31] <jmkasunich> hi alex
[18:11:35] <pfred1> jmkasunich heh she's laying on the ground on the side of my driveway right now
[18:11:35] <alex_joni> wassup?
[18:11:40] <alex_joni> hey John
[18:11:44] <A-L-P-H-A> debating stuff.
[18:11:54] <A-L-P-H-A> stuff being stuff.
[18:12:01] <alex_joni> yeah?
[18:12:06] <alex_joni> what kind of stuuf?
[18:12:09] <alex_joni> stuff even
[18:12:13] <A-L-P-H-A> thinking I don't even need an ER-16 collet.
[18:12:18] <pfred1> alex_joni any kind of stuff
[18:12:27] <alex_joni> yeah.. whatever
[18:12:34] <SWP_Away> collets? we don't need no steenking collets!
[18:12:50] <A-L-P-H-A> and I'll just ream out a 1/8" hole into some mild steel... and use that as a spindle.
[18:12:52] <jmkasunich> yeah, we mill with drill chucks
[18:12:56] <pfred1> SWP_Away I could always use a few more over here
[18:12:59] <SWP_Away> heh
[18:13:01] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_Away. think that'd be okay?
[18:13:01] <Imperator_> Hey Alex
[18:13:47] <A-L-P-H-A> les would know.
[18:13:49] <pfred1> like today I picked up a container of chisels not like i don't already have loads of chisels but hey for $5 I couldn't pass them up
[18:14:26] <SWP_Away> even better - put a piece of steel in a collet (dedicate a collet to it), and then bore the hole inside the collet it'll be used in
[18:14:47] <SWP_Away> preferably in whatever spindle mechanism you come up with
[18:14:53] <pfred1> won't the collet be like hardened?
[18:14:58] <A-L-P-H-A> SWP_Away? huh?
[18:15:08] <SWP_Away> not if it's a steel bar that he puts a hole into
[18:15:13] <jmkasunich> basically a reducer sleeve
[18:15:32] <jmkasunich> stick 1/2" drill rod into a 1/2" collet, bore 1/8 to hole 1/8 shanks
[18:15:42] <SWP_Away> sorry - thinking about holding the steel bar - put it into whatever will actually spin the bar, then bore the hole there - it reduces runout
[18:15:46] <jmkasunich> s/hole/hold
[18:15:48] <alex_joni> jmk: tried emc2 lately?
[18:16:02] <jmkasunich> how lately? not in a couple months
[18:16:11] <alex_joni> a few days ago ;)
[18:16:19] <jmkasunich> and now that I've switched to BDI-4.20, can't run it on this box
[18:16:25] <alex_joni> heh.. :D
[18:16:35] <alex_joni> that's... buggersome :)
[18:16:37] <jmkasunich> (still have a BDI-TNG box here)
[18:16:53] <SWP_Away> OK - leaving again - see you
[18:17:04] <alex_joni> bye SWP
[18:17:10] <jmkasunich> SWP: you never answered, want those switches?
[18:17:23] <SWP_Away> sure - what does the box weigh?
[18:17:34] <SWP_Away> see ya alex
[18:17:43] <jmkasunich> 3-4 lbs. but you can't have em all anyway, I want to keep some
[18:17:51] <jmkasunich> I'll bring the box along, you pick out what you need
[18:17:57] <SWP_Away> OK - just wondering about weight limits on airlines
[18:18:02] <SWP_Away> thanks
[18:18:06] <alex_joni> what kind of switches?
[18:18:10] <jmkasunich> each switch is only about an ounce
[18:18:34] <jmkasunich> see the gray panel in the middle of this pic (under the black computer) http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/cabinet.jpg
[18:18:52] <SWP_Away> If you get a chance, email me a rough list of what you may bring.
[18:18:56] <jmkasunich> closer view, but most of the panel is cut off http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/computer.jpg
[18:19:03] <SWP_Away> yeah - they look like the switches in an Apache helicopter
[18:19:10] <jmkasunich> the little square switches
[18:19:19] <jmkasunich> I have about 30-50 loose ones
[18:19:24] <SWP_Away> yep - 1/2 - 3/4 inch square lighted switches
[18:19:43] <jmkasunich> with little labels inside
[18:20:20] <SWP_Away> are they latching, momentary, or some of both?
[18:20:31] <jmkasunich> swp: a rough list of what I could bring is about 1000 lines (and not complete)
[18:20:40] <jmkasunich> the real question is what can people use
[18:20:46] <SWP_Away> heh - well, I guess that would be too much trouble ;)
[18:20:50] <jmkasunich> momentary (most if not all)
[18:21:03] <SWP_Away> When do you plan on leaving?
[18:21:09] <jmkasunich> sunday morning
[18:21:18] <jmkasunich> next sunday
[18:21:19] <SWP_Away> OK - so packing on Saturday and before
[18:21:24] <jmkasunich> yes
[18:21:41] <SWP_Away> All right - If I think of other stuff I'd like to scrounge from you, I'll send you a list :)
[18:21:48] <jmkasunich> I have a mid-size pickup, so I can bring lots of crap^H^H^H^H goodies
[18:21:58] <A-L-P-H-A> crap! stupid ftp won't work.
[18:22:06] <SWP_Away> Do you like Thai food?
[18:22:11] <A-L-P-H-A> love it.
[18:22:16] <A-L-P-H-A> nice and spicey.
[18:22:18] <SWP_Away> great!
[18:22:27] <A-L-P-H-A> what? you're coming up to Toronto?
[18:22:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I know a few good thai places.
[18:22:41] <SWP_Away> no - shut up :)
[18:22:46] <A-L-P-H-A> umm... spicey red snapper.
[18:22:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll buy.
[18:23:00] <SWP_Away> OK - I'll be there :)
[18:23:13] <jmkasunich> I have one computer here I'd like to find a good home for... 6U rackmount, passive backplane, 5-6 ISA slots and I think 10 PCI slots, provision for dual power supplies, room for four 5-1/4 drives
[18:23:27] <jmkasunich> 550MHz P2
[18:23:34] <SWP_Away> sounds like a CD/DVD duplicator to me
[18:23:58] <jmkasunich> or something to control some complex machine that needs lots of IO cards
[18:24:09] <SWP_Away> argh - must go finish Cinderella project
[18:24:17] <jmkasunich> bye
[18:24:22] <SWP_Away> stop taunting me with free junk^H^H^H^H goodies :)
[18:24:44] <jmkasunich> its a sickness
[18:24:56] <jmkasunich> (the collecting of such things, not the taunting)
[18:25:42] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/drawing3.rar <-- k, modified spindle design.
[18:26:07] <jmkasunich> how do you view a *.rar file?
[18:26:21] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, it's a compressed format.
[18:26:30] <A-L-P-H-A> crap... sec.
[18:26:35] <A-L-P-H-A> let me redo it so people can open it.
[18:26:47] <alex_joni> gzip it
[18:27:42] <jmkasunich> genarts yllaer staht llwe
[18:27:51] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/drawing3.zip
[18:28:01] <A-L-P-H-A> it's in DXF now.
[18:28:21] <alex_joni> jmk: talking suomi lately?
[18:28:43] <jmkasunich> something strange happened with my kb for a minute there
[18:29:01] <jmkasunich> after every key, it seemed like it did a backspace, so it moved to the beginning of the line
[18:29:08] <jmkasunich> net result, typing backwards
[18:29:08] <alex_joni> heh
[18:29:26] <alex_joni> lol.. almost ;)
[18:29:37] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone looking? caring? :D
[18:29:52] <jmkasunich> don't have anything handy to read dxf
[18:30:01] <jmkasunich> (would have to boot the winblows box and use easycad)
[18:30:27] <paul_c> qcad
[18:31:13] <A-L-P-H-A> http://lloydleung.com/gallery/Highspeed_Spindle_Design_drafts/spindle%20design%20Drawing3-Model.jpg
[18:31:15] <A-L-P-H-A> there!
[18:31:54] <jmkasunich> thanks
[18:31:59] <jmkasunich> gonna be hard to make
[18:32:00] <A-L-P-H-A> and I'll be holding the endmills in with a 6-32 set screw.
[18:32:06] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, how so?
[18:32:17] <jmkasunich> I'd make the pulley end bearing one size smaller than the other end
[18:32:18] <A-L-P-H-A> the only thing hard, is the boring.
[18:33:01] <jmkasunich> that way you can turn the seat for the first two bearings to size for a short length (only slightly longer than the bearings) then drop down 0.010 so the two bearings slip fit...
[18:33:04] <A-L-P-H-A> boring of the spindle.
[18:33:18] <jmkasunich> then make another step to fit the pulley end bearing
[18:33:50] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, that's another idea.
[18:33:55] <jmkasunich> the existing design requires absolutely no taper, the entire length needs to be precisely the right length for the bearings
[18:33:58] <A-L-P-H-A> the hard part that I see, is the spindle bore.
[18:34:02] <jmkasunich> s/length/diameter
[18:34:26] <jmkasunich> make the 1/8 hole first
[18:34:29] <A-L-P-H-A> no, there's spacers (in yellow)
[18:34:46] <jmkasunich> I meant diameter
[18:35:08] <jmkasunich> the bearings should be a perfect press fit, and it's hard to maintain that over the entire length
[18:35:25] <jmkasunich> (I guess you could neck it down a few thou between the bearings
[18:35:44] <jmkasunich> but you'd still have to press the tool end bearings over the pulley end bearing seat
[18:36:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to watch a movie
[18:36:04] <jmkasunich> anyway, about the hole
[18:36:13] <jmkasunich> make the hole first
[18:36:23] <jmkasunich> as accurately centered as possible
[18:36:28] <alex_joni> jmk: was wondering if the splash works for emc2
[18:36:37] <alex_joni> at least that should work on 2.6 too ;)
[18:36:49] <jmkasunich> alex: dunno, didn't you try it?
[18:36:59] <alex_joni> I did ...
[18:37:21] <alex_joni> but there's a lot of strange machines out there :D
[18:37:28] <jmkasunich> true
[18:37:33] <alex_joni> including one of my own.. pretty twisted
[18:37:36] <alex_joni> I gotta reinstall it
[18:37:41] <alex_joni> it's a mix of 2.4 and 2.6
[18:37:54] <alex_joni> pretty messed up ;)
[18:38:01] <jmkasunich> A-L-P-H-A: after the hole is done, replace lathe tailstock center with a hardened 1/8 diameter pin
[18:38:25] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is off to watch The Grudge
[18:38:29] <jmkasunich> chuck the pulley end, let the tool end run on the pin (oil well) while you machine the bearing seats
[18:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> later aj.
[18:38:33] <alex_joni> laters you guys
[18:38:38] <jmkasunich> bye alex
[18:38:47] <alex_joni> talk to you tomorrow
[18:38:52] <jmkasunich> that will make the bearing seats concentric to the hole
[18:38:53] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, you think that'd be good enough?
[18:38:58] <jmkasunich> depends
[18:39:06] <A-L-P-H-A> that is if my tailstock is dead center.
[18:39:16] <jmkasunich> nope, even if it isn't centered
[18:39:36] <jmkasunich> off center tailstock could cause some small taper, but not runout
[18:39:40] <A-L-P-H-A> frigen poker plans are being thrown up in the air. :/
[18:39:53] <jmkasunich> the 1/8" pin is stationary, just like a live center
[18:39:57] <A-L-P-H-A> runout is axial play right?
[18:40:10] <jmkasunich> runout is wobble - hole not centered
[18:40:17] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[18:40:43] <jmkasunich> (such that one flute cuts deeper than the other, and the whole thing tends to vibrate at high speed
[18:41:12] <jmkasunich> by using a stationary pin as a dead center, you eliminate runout from your lathe's bearings, chuck or collet, live center, etc
[18:41:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[18:42:00] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich has been comtemplating a similar project
[18:42:06] <A-L-P-H-A> so shove a 1/8" ground and hardened dowel in the tail stock... (oil), and shove it all together before I flick the spindle out?
[18:42:41] <jmkasunich> something like that... attaching the pin to the tailstock is an excersize left for the student ;-)
[18:42:56] <A-L-P-H-A> damn. I was hoping you were going to hold my hand.
[18:43:31] <jmkasunich> I have some dead morse taper drills here, the taper sections aren't hardened
[18:43:52] <jmkasunich> I was thinking of cutting off the taper from one, drill and ream 1/8 with it stuck in the headstock spindle
[18:44:22] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... I'm not one that likes morse taper stuff.
[18:44:25] <jmkasunich> maybe a setscrew to hold the dowel in, maybe just ream 0.0001" under and force the dowel in
[18:44:35] <jmkasunich> your tailstock is MT, isn't it?
[18:44:47] <A-L-P-H-A> no, collet. :) W20. Swiss thing.
[18:45:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I have a MT2 and MT1 adapters.
[18:45:07] <jmkasunich> lathe tailstock with collets?
[18:45:12] <A-L-P-H-A> yup.
[18:45:21] <jmkasunich> swiss screw machine or something? OK, I didn't know that
[18:45:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got a live center as well...
[18:45:45] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, no... Schaublin 102 watch/jewellers lathe.
[18:46:14] <jmkasunich> oh, then you probably don't need some of the tricks I've been describing
[18:46:30] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[18:46:42] <jmkasunich> I have a ratty chinese 3-in-1, so tricks like dead centers to eliminate runout are badly needed
[18:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[18:48:23] <jmkasunich> bootin up the win box... I'll post my spindle design in a couple mins
[18:48:42] <A-L-P-H-A> sweet. cool.
[18:48:54] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, also... I want to run the spindle like at 12K rpm.
[18:49:12] <jmkasunich> I'm aiming for 30K
[18:55:20] <jmkasunich> http://home.att.net/~jmkasunich/Pics/spindletemp.pdf
[18:55:31] <jmkasunich> just shows the spindle end, not the pulley end
[18:55:37] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[18:55:54] <jmkasunich> bearings are 5/16 ID, 3/8 OD, from McMastercarr, rated at 45,000 RPM
[18:56:08] <jmkasunich> correction, 1/4 ID
[18:56:27] <jmkasunich> the bearing at the pulley end is 6mm ID (0.236)
[18:56:57] <jmkasunich> so the center section of the shaft can be 0.240-0.248, no tight tolerance needed
[18:57:08] <jmkasunich> bearing seats themselves must be near perfect of course
[18:57:31] <jmkasunich> the retaining nut and conical sleece are brass, from a compression fitting
[18:57:42] <jmkasunich> s/sleece/sleeve
[18:58:10] <jmkasunich> spindle itself would be from drill rod, maybe hardened (tradeoff - hardening might warp it)
[18:58:12] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[18:58:38] <jmkasunich> the brass sleeve would crush down around the cutter shank to hold it
[18:58:54] <A-L-P-H-A> are you going for collets?
[18:59:07] <jmkasunich> nope - only one size
[18:59:14] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[18:59:21] <jmkasunich> the spindle itself is the purple part
[18:59:23] <A-L-P-H-A> so I'm going for the similar.
[18:59:39] <jmkasunich> the hole is 0.1251 or something - very close fit on the cutter shank
[18:59:56] <A-L-P-H-A> why not .1250?
[19:00:06] <A-L-P-H-A> I guess getting it out will be a bitch.
[19:00:13] <jmkasunich> the orange conical part is a brass compression sleeve ($0.86 each), that squeezes the cutter to hold it in
[19:00:40] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, so that's the collet?
[19:00:46] <jmkasunich> kinda
[19:00:48] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, got the part number?
[19:00:49] <Imperator_> Did anybody need some HF-Spindels from Precise ????
[19:01:11] <Imperator_> SC51 60000rpm 1,1kW
[19:01:12] <A-L-P-H-A> HF?
[19:01:18] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, free, sure.
[19:01:20] <Imperator_> high frequenci
[19:01:20] <A-L-P-H-A> how much?
[19:01:26] <jmkasunich> except that the "collet" is only about 0.15" long, and the tool shank extends way past it into the hole
[19:01:42] <jmkasunich> the accuracy comes from the hole, the "collet" simply holds it in
[19:01:43] <Imperator_> hm, 500EUR would be nice, but we can talk about the price
[19:02:06] <jmkasunich> Imperator: les might be interested
[19:02:17] <A-L-P-H-A> got pics?
[19:02:23] <Imperator_> les: are you arround ?
[19:02:25] <A-L-P-H-A> les isn't.
[19:02:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I msg him alittle earlier
[19:02:56] <Imperator_> i can send you some pics
[19:02:56] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, are these new or soemthing?
[19:03:09] <Imperator_> 15 years, or so
[19:03:24] <Imperator_> two fase spindle, like a stepper motor
[19:03:39] <Imperator_> the run on a stpper controller :-)
[19:03:53] <Imperator_> they run on a stepper motor controller
[19:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> interesting.
[19:04:18] <A-L-P-H-A> damn it... if I wasn't broke.
[19:04:36] <Imperator_> the bearings are on the end of there live, but for hobby use the will last some years more i think
[19:05:24] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, so, drill/ream spindle, oil, shove a pin/dowel in, machine bearing seats?
[19:05:36] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, I'd be interested if I had cash.
[19:05:52] <Imperator_> 400EUR are also ok
[19:06:09] <Imperator_> give me your mail adress, then i can send you some pics
[19:06:23] <jmkasunich> A-L-P-H-A: yes
[19:06:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I maybe able get away without the dowel/pin... as my machine is pretty good still.
[19:07:06] <jmkasunich> pin must be stationary for best accuracy (for you that's easy, grab it in tailstock collet (or does the tailstock spindle spin on that lathe?)
[19:07:34] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, let me see if I have a picture of my lathe tailstock.
[19:09:01] <jmkasunich> another recommendation... minimize overhang. on your design, the cutter is well out beyond the bearings
[19:09:23] <jmkasunich> on my design, the shank of the cutter extends back thru the bearings
[19:09:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I was thinking that too.
[19:10:06] <jmkasunich> you could just make your hole deeper, and cut off a little from the end
[19:10:08] <Imperator_> A-L-P-H-A: for a flight Munich->Washington and back it is yours :-)
[19:10:23] <jmkasunich> what are you gonna use to hold the cutter in?
[19:11:28] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, was gonna use a 6-32 set screw.
[19:11:42] <A-L-P-H-A> crazy idea.
[19:11:57] <jmkasunich> makes it harder to keep things balanced
[19:12:12] <A-L-P-H-A> the other idea is, take a ER-16 collet system, and flick it down.
[19:12:30] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, yeah... I could do a set screw on opposite sides.
[19:13:22] <jmkasunich> in that case, eliminate the skinny nose part.. run the fat part that is just above the bearings right out to the end of the spindle... more meat for setscrew threads
[19:13:54] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, so just a T, with a 1/8" reamed bore.
[19:13:54] <jmkasunich> and make the nose just long enough that you can get an allen wrench on the setscrews
[19:14:00] <jmkasunich> yeah
[19:15:15] <jmkasunich> dunno how secure setscrews pushing from opposite sides will be
[19:16:17] <A-L-P-H-A> should be pretty secure... I'm learning towards a ER-16 collet, with a 1/2" shank...
[19:16:26] <A-L-P-H-A> grind the shank down to 25mm.
[19:16:57] <jmkasunich> gives you a wider range of diameters
[19:17:06] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[19:17:16] <jmkasunich> I was going for very small and lightweight, for an engraver rather than a mill
[19:17:31] <jmkasunich> (the OD of the housing is only 1/2")
[19:17:35] <A-L-P-H-A> this will be for light milling of titanium, if tha'ts possible.
[19:17:48] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, check out DA300 collets.
[19:17:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got one, that I'm going to let go soon.
[19:17:59] <jmkasunich> then you want to be able to use larger shanks than 1/8" I suspect
[19:18:22] <A-L-P-H-A> DA300 is good till 1/4".
[19:18:37] <jmkasunich> wow, it's getting late
[19:18:50] <A-L-P-H-A> 4:30 here.
[19:18:51] <jmkasunich> (damn basement)
[19:18:52] <A-L-P-H-A> pm
[19:19:05] <jmkasunich> same here... but I have a bunch of stuff that I hauled outside to sort
[19:19:17] <jmkasunich> need to take more outside, sort, and get it back in before dark and dinner
[19:19:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I feel like napping... heh
[19:19:37] <jmkasunich> IRC is dangerous
[19:19:46] <jmkasunich> keeps me from getting things done
[19:20:23] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich is now known as jmk_away
[19:20:48] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight, lets see what's gonna happen... maybe I'll machine something when I start.
[19:21:00] <A-L-P-H-A> start=wake
[19:21:11] <A-L-P-H-A> nap time.
[19:21:39] <pfred1> I was just out admiring my statue some more
[19:32:44] <anonimasu> hello everyone
[19:32:55] <pfred1> anonimasu hi there
[19:35:38] <A-L-P-H-A> hey
[19:53:35] <A-L-P-H-A> hey ray
[19:53:45] <pfred1> hey Ray what do yo usay?
[19:54:20] <pfred1> * pfred1 runs the first pass on his DVD rip ...
[19:54:34] <A-L-P-H-A> what are you ripping?
[19:54:43] <pfred1> The Butterfly Effect
[19:54:56] <pfred1> it's a pretty cool movie
[19:55:02] <rayh> Hi guys
[19:55:13] <A-L-P-H-A> ashton coucher is annoying... but he was good in that movie
[19:55:32] <pfred1> he's like from That 70's Show right?
[19:55:38] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[19:55:45] <pfred1> yeah he doesn't bother me
[19:55:53] <pfred1> I think he did really well in this movie
[19:56:33] <pfred1> this ripping DVDs is so technical
[19:56:52] <pfred1> my command I'm using is cheesy and it's pretty involved
[19:56:55] <A-L-P-H-A> www.doom9.org
[19:56:59] <pfred1> mencoder -ofps 24000/1001 -oac copy -vf crop=704:464:10:4,scale=540:348 -ovc xvid -xvidencopts pass=1 ButterflyEffect.dvd -o ButterflyEffect1.avi
[19:57:23] <pfred1> doom9 is pretty Windows oriented
[19:57:44] <pfred1> some Windows rips are so so but
[21:11:28] <jmk_away> ray: you there?
[21:12:26] <rayh> Yep.
[21:12:36] <jmk_away> sorting thru computer stuff
[21:12:44] <jmk_away> can you think of anything you need
[21:13:04] <jmk_away> 24X cdrom drives, got 3 going to the dumpster unless somebody want em
[21:13:11] <jmk_away> some 4.3G hard disks
[21:13:19] <jmk_away> video cards, network cards
[21:13:29] <rayh> I'll take the HD's.
[21:13:41] <jmk_away> ok
[21:13:47] <rayh> Those are just about right for single machine installs.
[21:14:23] <jmk_away> I doubt anyone has use for 1G SCSI HDs
[21:14:32] <jmk_away> got 4 of those
[21:14:37] <rayh> I'll take the cdrom drives as well if you are about to dump them.
[21:14:51] <jmk_away> ok, they're yours
[21:18:08] <les> hello
[21:18:35] <les> alpha still there?
[21:18:36] <rayh> Hi Les
[21:18:42] <les> hi ray
[21:21:59] <les> was it a nice day up ther?
[21:22:07] <les> a little cool here.
[21:22:34] <les> hard to see the monitor...evening sun is backlighting
[21:23:13] <jmk_away> les: imperator was here earlier, he's selling a 1.1kW high speed spindle
[21:23:43] <les> hmmm
[21:23:46] <rayh> Nice day here. Just beautiful
[21:23:57] <les> a bit small for my needs these days
[21:24:17] <rayh> Did he mention a price?
[21:24:29] <les> I am lookindg at about 5 kW I guess
[21:24:35] <jmk_away> 400 euros I think
[21:24:53] <jmk_away> or a round trip ticket germany to emcfest ;-)
[21:24:55] <les> does he have some details? I can read back
[21:25:53] <rayh> What kind of tool holder?
[21:25:56] <les> read back some..didn't see much
[21:26:12] <les> but again I can hardly see the monitor right now
[21:26:15] <jmk_away> he didn't say much, contact him if you want more
[21:26:20] <les> k
[21:26:27] <rayh> I'm going this summer so could stow it away in the luggage.
[21:26:45] <les> heh
[21:27:09] <les> well a i kW spindle could be useful if the rpm was really high
[21:27:15] <les> say 40krpm
[21:27:30] <rayh> Right and I've got just the little router to put it on.
[21:27:32] <les> PCB and such
[21:28:18] <rayh> wood.
[21:28:46] <rayh> Small wall hangings and inlaid flooring.
[21:29:02] <les> well for v-carving you need little power but mich rpm...the center is dead
[21:29:43] <les> for things like turkey calls where literally tons of wood need to be turned into chips you need raw power.
[21:30:02] <rayh> Yes. Very true.
[21:30:19] <les> I have a line on some used perskes and colombos
[21:30:21] <rayh> I was also going to experiment with wood carving followed by wood burning.
[21:30:29] <les> 7.5 hp- 10 hp
[21:30:35] <rayh> Really.
[21:30:41] <les> yeah
[21:30:59] <les> do you have my celtic spiral emc plaque?
[21:31:03] <les> the code...
[21:31:34] <rayh> No I don't. Would like it.
[21:31:50] <les> It makes a very nice 3-d carved plaque
[21:32:00] <les> ok dcc coming...
[21:33:11] <rayh> * rayh twiddles his thumbs...
[21:34:32] <rayh> and watches the bits dribble down the wire.
[21:34:43] <les> heh dial up
[21:35:04] <les> Now this is designed to really beat up emc
[21:35:17] <les> points .001 apart at 120 ipm
[21:35:37] <les> I have a lower res version too
[21:35:49] <les> ought to throw it on the bdi distro
[21:35:58] <rayh> Reminds me of a great like by Al Pachino in "Scent of a Woman."
[21:36:14] <les> ?
[21:36:24] <rayh> "Flowin like mud around here."
[21:36:25] <les> oh line
[21:36:29] <les> heh
[21:36:59] <rayh> Thanks Les.
[21:37:17] <les> anyway be back in a bit when the sun is out of my eyes
[21:37:19] <les> yw
[22:15:06] <Imperator_> hi les
[22:15:26] <Imperator_> les: still here ?