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[00:00:38] <les> I made ther mensa cut on tickle...but I took a mensa test on the back of a box of rice crispies and flunked miserably
[00:00:51] <les> ???
[00:01:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is lloking through the install messages on the virtual consoles.
[00:01:39] <Phydbleep> s/lloking/looking
[00:03:23] <les> oh more robins
[00:03:45] <les> how many wealthy stamp lickers are there?
[00:04:08] <les> heh
[00:06:38] <robin_s> bah
[00:06:43] <les> haha
[00:06:43] <robin_s> poxy connections
[00:07:25] <robin_s> anyway, its late
[00:07:29] <robin_s> time for bed.
[00:07:46] <robin_s> see you guys later.
[00:11:11] <les> well all robins are asleep now I guess
[00:14:16] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is still waiting for the install error to re-occur..
[00:14:35] <SWPadnos> heh - another "Visionary Philosopher" here :)
[00:14:59] <les> perhaps it won't occur
[00:15:12] <les> oh took tickle too SWP?
[00:15:16] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:15:20] <SWPadnos> I had done it before
[00:15:30] <SWPadnos> There was one question that I'm pretty sure I didn't get though
[00:15:44] <les> ??
[00:15:51] <Phydbleep> It's done it with 4.18 and 4.20.. I played around in the bios and I'm trying 4.20 again.
[00:16:22] <SWPadnos> Johnny likes 400 but not 300, he likes 100 but not 99, and he likes 3600 but not 3700, which of the following numbers does Johnny like? {900, 1000, 1100, 1200}
[00:16:47] <les> hmmm
[00:17:11] <les> 1200
[00:17:24] <SWPadnos> Why do you think that?
[00:17:28] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep thinks Johnny has too much free time.
[00:17:34] <les> heh
[00:17:35] <SWPadnos> it's contagious
[00:18:12] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: I know, but I can't help spreading it. :)
[00:18:17] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[00:18:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:18:59] <les> 1200 is more than 1 integer difference in the first column of the second number
[00:19:39] <les> 400-300=100
[00:19:47] <les> 100-99=1
[00:19:54] <cradek> it's 900
[00:20:00] <cradek> it's a square
[00:20:14] <les> 3600-3700=-100
[00:20:15] <SWPadnos> good point
[00:20:22] <les> all powers of 10
[00:20:30] <les> 1200 does not fit
[00:20:39] <cradek> les: square! square!
[00:20:42] <SWPadnos> I think cradek got it
[00:20:48] <les> cradek ok
[00:20:51] <cradek> * cradek beats les over the head with a square
[00:21:01] <SWPadnos> wait - you might damage the square
[00:21:08] <les> I said my tickle score was bogus
[00:21:34] <SWPadnos> funny that the extra two zeroes fuxxored me on that one :)
[00:22:12] <SWPadnos> I'm usually pretty good at finding patterns in numbers
[00:22:13] <cradek> did anyone point out that johnny needs a hobby?
[00:22:21] <SWPadnos> johnny is an EMC addict :)
[00:22:35] <les> square...hmmm...ok cradek is smarter than me. But I have had two beers.
[00:22:41] <Phydbleep> cradek: Yeah, I did.
[00:22:47] <cradek> oh good
[00:23:02] <SWPadnos> and I haven't had enough caffeine today
[00:23:24] <les> wait ...prove the square hypothesis...
[00:23:45] <asdfqwega> Praise the godz and pass the Red Bull...
[00:23:45] <SWPadnos> it's hip to be square, therefore cradek's answer is correct
[00:24:04] <les> haw
[00:24:04] <cradek> les: too late, the question scrolled off. (whew)
[00:24:12] <les> hahaha
[00:24:17] <SWPadnos> shift-<pg-up>
[00:24:21] <cradek> NEVER MIND THE SCROLLBACK
[00:24:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:24:49] <asdfqwega> <slash>clear
[00:25:10] <cradek> /clear
[00:25:19] <cradek> /nevermind
[00:25:29] <cradek> /nothingtoseehere
[00:25:40] <SWPadnos> .movealong,movealong
[00:25:46] <asdfqwega> logger_aj bookmark
[00:25:57] <asdfqwega> hehehehe
[00:26:10] <SWPadnos> I wonder if the comma is required
[00:26:22] <SWPadnos> logger_aj, bookmark
[00:26:22] <SWPadnos> See
http://193.226.12.129/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-04-11#T00-26-22
[00:26:24] <asdfqwega> logger_aj, bookmark
[00:26:24] <asdfqwega> See
http://193.226.12.129/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2005-04-11#T00-26-24
[00:26:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:26:41] <les> I will still go with 1200 but (sigh) it has scrolled off
[00:26:53] <les> and it is so much work to scroll back
[00:26:56] <les> heh
[00:27:03] <asdfqwega> Not on mine...I keep about 2k lines of scrollback
[00:27:09] <cradek> * cradek tries to think of a more obvious number problem
[00:27:11] <SWPadnos> cool - I should see about setting up a logger like that. one can't be too redundant redundant these days days
[00:27:28] <SWPadnos> what's the next number in this series: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ...
[00:27:35] <les> haha
[00:27:58] <cradek> les: johnny likes 2, 3, 5, 7, 11. Which other number does he like out of {-54, 99990, 13}?
[00:28:11] <Phydbleep> 13
[00:28:13] <SWPadnos> "how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck would chuck wood"?
[00:28:14] <cradek> * cradek giggles
[00:28:19] <Phydbleep> primes. :)
[00:28:30] <cradek> don't ruin it for everyone else!
[00:28:31] <asdfqwega> What's the next step in this sequence: "One, two, five.." "Three, sir!" "Three!"
[00:28:38] <SWPadnos> "Yes, Three"
[00:28:58] <les> If tommy had 2 more than twice the number of quarters than jane had dimes and the total was $20..
[00:29:02] <SWPadnos> Three is the number that ye shall count, and the number of the counting shall be three
[00:29:16] <SWPadnos> They're both too poor to see a movie
[00:29:31] <les> that was the crap kind of questions I saw on tickle
[00:29:44] <SWPadnos> yep - I only got easy ones
[00:29:56] <asdfqwega> And the Lord did grin, and the people rejoiced, and they ate mules, and orangutans, and aardvarks...
[00:30:05] <les> heheh
[00:30:15] <SWPadnos> and they blew their enemies to tiny bits (n His mercy)
[00:30:20] <SWPadnos> in
[00:30:43] <SWPadnos> or - Ni!
[00:30:52] <asdfqwega> Nooo!
[00:31:00] <asdfqwega> Nu!
[00:31:00] <SWPadnos> Ni!
[00:31:08] <SWPadnos> don't say it
[00:31:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep throws a shrubbery at SWPadnos
[00:31:19] <SWPadnos> a nice shrubbery - nothing too fancy
[00:31:37] <asdfqwega> Ah wahrned yoo
[00:31:37] <Phydbleep> a ratty shrubbery with aphids..
[00:32:23] <asdfqwega> Ah wahrned yoo, but would ye listen, ah no, it's jest a 'armless little bunny
[00:32:24] <les> ach sap sucking aphids
[00:32:36] <SWPadnos> It's a ferocious beast
[00:32:39] <SWPadnos> it's got fangs
[00:32:54] <asdfqwega> Lookit all the bones!
[00:33:03] <les> looks like it in a microscope!
[00:33:04] <SWPadnos> go and change your armor
[00:33:04] <Phydbleep> a ratty shrubbery with aphids and fangs????
[00:33:28] <les> I hate those things that live in your eyelids
[00:33:36] <les> ever seen a picture?
[00:33:38] <les> gross
[00:33:40] <asdfqwega> ?
[00:33:52] <les> some arthropod
[00:33:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - the little mites that live at the base of your eyebrows?
[00:34:00] <Phydbleep> Mites.
[00:34:04] <les> yeah
[00:34:16] <SWPadnos> Have you seen the movie "Gattaca"?
[00:34:26] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega raises his hand
[00:34:40] <SWPadnos> I like the opening scene
[00:34:41] <les> no...but I want to wash my face with disinfectant now
[00:34:42] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep goes "Like, OhMaGod... I think it worked."
[00:34:57] <les> great
[00:35:00] <SWPadnos> hard to identify the falling bits at first, but I got it after a bit :)
[00:35:21] <SWPadnos> cool - do you think the BIOS tweak did it?
[00:36:09] <Phydbleep> Yeah, I turned the hard drive (LBA?) translation on..and it's now booting. :)
[00:36:36] <SWPadnos> Ah - you usually need to have "other OS" or LBA (large disk) mode on for Linux.
[00:37:16] <Phydbleep> Compaq server from '96? with a reflash to a '99 bios last nioght. :)
[00:38:06] <Phydbleep> Compaq PW6000.. $5000 machine in its day.. I was using it for a doorstop..
[00:43:16] <SWPadnos> newer than my server - a dual-PPro 200 (upgraded to Overdrive-333 chips)
[00:44:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders where SWPadnos is..
[00:45:22] <Phydbleep> I see cheap hardware allthe time..
[00:46:12] <Phydbleep> WooHoo.. I see tkemc. :)
[00:46:13] <SWPadnos> Vermont
[00:46:19] <SWPadnos> I see dead computers :)
[00:46:25] <asdfqwega> If there's one type of hardware that gives me fits, it's the cheap AMD motherboards
[00:46:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is in New Mexico...
[00:47:01] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep sees stupid people... Not here, outside..
[00:47:03] <SWPadnos> older AMDs were not so great (around the socket-6 and early socket-7 days), but they're totally rock solid these days
[00:47:14] <SWPadnos> Luckily, it's dark here :)
[00:47:38] <asdfqwega> I'm talking the Via chipset socket-A stuff
[00:48:00] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - I think that's a VIA problem
[00:48:09] <asdfqwega> I haven't had a good socket A board until the last one I bought, an N-force chipset
[00:48:15] <Phydbleep> asdfqwega: I run linux on them all day long. :)
[00:48:24] <SWPadnos> I've hear a number of people criticizing Via, but not necessarily AMD
[00:48:37] <asdfqwega> Well, good for you...too bad for me
[00:48:52] <SWPadnos> the KT133 and KT333 chips had fairly big performance problems with PCI burst transfers
[00:49:13] <SWPadnos> some were fised in the KT400, and most were fixed in the Opteron chipsets
[00:49:32] <SWPadnos> (K8T800 or some such)
[00:49:47] <asdfqwega> Especially too bad for me, as I used to have several AMD Duron and Thunderbird cpu's lying around
[00:50:20] <SWPadnos> I've been lucky - I have several KT133 and KT333 boards, and they're all pretty good (I'm usinga KT133 right now)
[00:51:59] <asdfqwega> Right now I've got 3 i810 boards up and running, along with my XP-1800 in my nforce board
[00:53:08] <asdfqwega> I don't know what it is about these particular i810 boards...they just refuse to die
[00:55:40] <SWPadnos> Bummer :)
[01:01:51] <jmkasunich> why didn't you guys warn me about Via mobos _before_ I went out and bought one
[01:04:03] <jmkasunich> (Soyo SY-KT600 Dragon Plus V2.0)
[01:08:06] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a Dragon-Lite and a bunch of surplus junque from Sandia labs.
[01:08:57] <jmkasunich> most of my computers are surplus junque
[01:12:51] <SWPadnos> cool - an A64 laptop for $2170 - even better
[01:14:03] <SWPadnos> even better - on special for $1845 (only 1G RAM though)
[01:19:49] <les> aw I assign a two year useful lifetime to boxes...
[01:20:21] <les> this one I am on is about 2/3 through
[01:20:29] <les> p4 1.8
[01:21:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep assigns a 4 year cpu life and a 6 year heater life.. :)
[01:21:46] <les> I used to replace mobos...
[01:22:08] <les> but it seems these days you just trash the whole box
[01:22:20] <Phydbleep> My Slot A Athlon 900 kept the livin room pretty warm all winter. :)
[01:22:31] <les> heh
[01:23:30] <Phydbleep> It's 45 outside and 70 in here right now. :)
[01:23:43] <Phydbleep> And this place has crappy insulation.
[01:23:56] <les> I have seen pictures of the slums in Japan where people use old pc boxes as bricks to make a shanty home
[01:24:42] <Phydbleep> I wish I had a PDP-11 for the bathroom. Great space heater..
[01:24:49] <les> ha
[01:27:15] <les> Actually I remember whenI was 6 I made a fort in the woods with tree limbs and such
[01:27:30] <les> of all the homes I have owned...
[01:27:41] <les> I think that was the best.
[01:28:45] <Jymmm> les you around?
[01:28:51] <les> yup
[01:29:01] <Jymmm> whats that guys name in Scotland again?
[01:29:11] <les> rab gordon
[01:29:15] <Jymmm> ty
[01:31:11] <Jymmm> les url to your signs?
[01:31:30] <les> just a sec...
[01:32:19] <Jymmm> now damnit, now! =)
[01:32:51] <les> http://www.lmwatts.com/signwp.html
[01:32:59] <les> had to google myself
[01:33:25] <Jymmm> lol
[01:36:55] <Jymmm> les whats the dimensions of the mahogany sign? (spx)
[01:37:23] <les> that was...uh...4 by 5 feet or so
[01:37:56] <Jymmm> Cool. Showing a friend what cnc router can do. Any other cool examples?
[01:38:32] <les> go to gallery
[01:38:39] <les> most of that is cnc
[01:38:47] <Phydbleep> les: You do that in public?
[01:38:50] <Jymmm> les whats the damga on the turkey calls?
[01:39:26] <les> on the bottom is the turkey call we worked 7 days a week on jan. feb, and march
[01:39:40] <Jymmm> les sorry, I meant $$$
[01:39:43] <les> MSPP for the one shoen is $120
[01:39:54] <les> MSRP sorry
[01:40:09] <les> but cost is $18
[01:40:26] <les> we made many thousands
[01:40:43] <les> starting up for next season in about a month
[01:41:19] <les> But it is only one day per week
[01:41:26] <les> was to be two...
[01:41:45] <les> but I am upping the spindle HP to ten
[01:41:51] <les> so now it is one
[01:42:05] <les> almost the same gross though
[01:42:11] <les> power is cheap
[01:42:20] <les> labor is not
[01:42:55] <SWPadnos> gott a get me a copy of Machinery's Handbook
[01:42:57] <Phydbleep> les: that will change in the next 5-7 years.
[01:43:15] <les> yes it might phy
[01:43:35] <les> we just have to go with the flow
[01:43:40] <Phydbleep> That's why I'm going to PMDC drives.
[01:44:26] <les> well as a case study...the calls are carved in 3 min 12 seconds.
[01:44:42] <les> $.50 of secondary work is required
[01:45:14] <les> at 10 hp the calls will carve in about one minute flat
[01:45:26] <les> but the sed work will be the same
[01:45:44] <les> scondary
[01:45:52] <SWPadnos> considering that a machine operator has got to earn at least $10/hour, and that 1KWH is roughly $0.15, you'd have to have a humongous energy cost increase to get anywhere close
[01:45:57] <les> remember I cannot type
[01:46:10] <Phydbleep> Hmmm.. Anyone with a mill need a P-II 400 with sound/video/net for a controller and want to trade some aluminum/milling?
[01:46:20] <SWPadnos> so a 10HP spindle costs roughly $1/hour at this point
[01:46:36] <les> SWP : I am the machine operator
[01:46:49] <les> and I work cheap haha
[01:47:08] <SWPadnos> I'm familiar with that :)
[01:47:09] <les> two employees do the secondary stuff
[01:48:53] <les> I sweep the floor and sign the patchecks...
[01:48:57] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs a milling attachment for a 1937 South-Bend lathe..
[01:49:06] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos needs a lathe :)
[01:49:08] <les> hmmm
[01:49:19] <les> not hard to make
[01:49:42] <Phydbleep> les: Need a mill to do it.
[01:49:56] <les> yeah.
[01:50:21] <les> I would base it on one of those cheap but ok xy tables
[01:50:23] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: A lathe will pretty much build the pieces for itself.
[01:50:39] <les> yes
[01:50:50] <les> a lathe is self replicating
[01:50:50] <SWPadnos> yeah - you can build a lathe with a lathe, but you can't build a milling machine with a milling machine
[01:51:05] <Phydbleep> Not true.
[01:51:10] <les> I can
[01:51:13] <les> and have
[01:51:27] <SWPadnos> well - since you can rig either to act as the other, I guess you're right
[01:51:28] <les> but it is smaller.
[01:51:44] <Phydbleep> You can build a lathe with itself but you cant build a mill with itself.
[01:51:55] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos said that
[01:52:14] <les> why not?
[01:52:30] <SWPadnos> because you need to turn various parts
[01:52:35] <les> (if you have a rotary table on the mill)
[01:53:22] <les> agreed a lathe is awfully convenient
[01:53:39] <SWPadnos> well - like I said, either can act like the other, within limits
[01:53:48] <les> yup
[01:54:29] <Phydbleep> So who's got a working mill?
[01:54:54] <SWPadnos> I do, but it's not CNC yet
[01:55:06] <Phydbleep> I could probably do it on the lathe but it would be a p.i.t.a...
[01:56:17] <les> I have 5 basic tools in the shop....lathe, mill, surface grinder, cylindrical grinder
[01:56:30] <SWPadnos> and...
[01:56:33] <les> I feel I can make most anything with those
[01:56:49] <SWPadnos> What's number 5?
[01:56:55] <les> oops
[01:56:57] <les> saws
[01:57:09] <SWPadnos> Oh yeah - I have one of those as well
[01:57:29] <Phydbleep> les: Can you make a politician truthful?
[01:57:36] <SWPadnos> It's a monster - 11"x18" in steel
[01:57:45] <les> hawhaw
[01:57:46] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... :)
[01:57:47] <les> no
[01:57:50] <SWPadnos> only with a handgun
[01:58:15] <les> swp: my horizontal is about that size
[01:58:33] <les> vertical is 14x12
[01:58:40] <SWPadnos> Mine's a Johnson model J (my "Big Johnson" :) )
[01:59:19] <les> REALLY? I have a Johnson horizontal too!!!
[01:59:29] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wants a compound mount X/Y table that will take a servo drive.
[01:59:45] <SWPadnos> how about a Bridgeport - they have an XY table ;)
[01:59:50] <gezr> I have a brother named Johnson
[01:59:56] <les> love to make you one PHY
[02:01:17] <Phydbleep> les Want to trade one for a Compaq P-II 350 128meg ram 6gb drive W/ EMC preloaded?
[02:01:39] <SWPadnos> (don't do it - hold out for the P-II 400)
[02:01:55] <Phydbleep> It wont take a 400.. :\
[02:02:01] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:02:01] <les> I have boxes coming out my ears heh
[02:02:09] <gezr> * gezr didnt know they made them that fast
[02:02:28] <Phydbleep> It'll take another 350 if you get the other CPU adapter card.
[02:02:40] <les> but you can make some ok servo xy tables from cheap imported stuff
[02:03:35] <Phydbleep> This will need to be fairly beefy.. It's going on a South-Bend 11x48..
[02:04:15] <les> Gosh a hundred dollar imported xy table and a little bit of welding could make a very nice hobby mill
[02:05:01] <Phydbleep> If I had access to a mill in the first place. :)
[02:05:09] <les> yeah
[02:05:56] <les> I have an index vertical
[02:06:08] <les> getting an BP cnc very soon
[02:06:15] <Phydbleep> For sale? Real Cheap?
[02:06:30] <les> ha no not for sale
[02:06:45] <les> it is on this page:
[02:06:56] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders where les is.
[02:07:15] <les> http://www.lmwatts.com/signwp.html
[02:07:27] <Phydbleep> And is he googling himself in public AGAIN?
[02:07:34] <les> north east georgia mountains
[02:07:40] <les> heh
[02:08:10] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Your set up for wood and I need to work 6061..
[02:08:10] <les> oops wrong page
[02:08:27] <les> wait a sec
[02:08:44] <les> http://www.lmwatts.com/shop.html
[02:08:47] <les> ok
[02:09:32] <Phydbleep> Nice router though.. :)
[02:10:06] <les> just a small r&d shop..but getting much more big iron now
[02:10:08] <les> ty
[02:10:28] <SWPadnos> nice anvil :)
[02:10:41] <les> the router was made on the other tools.
[02:10:55] <les> anvils are good
[02:11:15] <Phydbleep> I'm going to be getting some more PMDC 6000 RPM ~3/4HP motors if you want to build a smaller one.. Nice spndle motors. :)
[02:11:15] <les> that one is over 100 years old
[02:12:12] <Phydbleep> I have no clue how old the anvil I have is..
[02:12:16] <les> Well i and my partner sold 105 sem ht30-44 brush servos on the web
[02:12:23] <les> but all gone now
[02:12:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would rather barter.
[02:12:59] <les> barter is good.
[02:14:49] <les> We are designing a new low cost high performance cnc gantry machine now t sell
[02:14:59] <les> very nervous
[02:15:08] <les> may loose my shirt
[02:15:27] <SWPadnos> It's hard to compete on quality at low prices
[02:15:35] <les> spendinf big $$$ onthe project
[02:15:52] <les> SWP: we think we can
[02:16:04] <SWPadnos> the trouble isn't the engineering, it's the customers
[02:16:19] <les> I know
[02:16:24] <SWPadnos> most people who look heavily at price aren't convinced by quality
[02:16:37] <les> the market is saturated almst
[02:16:45] <SWPadnos> and the competition (china) can easily undercut your price, since they make more and crappier machines
[02:17:03] <Phydbleep> Or they figure it will be obsolete in a couple of years anyway..
[02:17:17] <les> SWP: don't assume China is competition heh
[02:17:20] <SWPadnos> We had this problem at my previous company
[02:18:06] <les> I am listenng...since I am spendinfg a lot of money onthis project
[02:18:26] <les> all eyes
[02:18:29] <SWPadnos> sorry - was starting a download
[02:18:39] <Phydbleep> I end up dealing with hong kong & China just because 99.9% of american companies can't be bothered to deal with a < $1,000,000 deal..
[02:18:46] <SWPadnos> My old company made radio controls for photographers
[02:19:02] <SWPadnos> We made a microprocessor based system that was basically immune to noise
[02:19:21] <SWPadnos> the competition was frequency modulated IR, or radio (old garage door openers)
[02:19:46] <les> and?
[02:19:51] <Phydbleep> You want to sell wholesale @ 150% of cost instead of 300% ?? Bugger off!
[02:19:57] <SWPadnos> We had out excellent product, which was priced a little higher than the competition
[02:20:25] <SWPadnos> we managed to sell them, but only to the people that would actually listen past the "we're $50 more"
[02:20:38] <SWPadnos> (and of course that was the first question they asked)
[02:21:23] <SWPadnos> The company is still doing well for other reasons (marketing was drastically increased, and compatible radio modules are being built into various flash packs, light meters, and cameras now.
[02:21:49] <les> We are trying a simple philosophy: a little bit cheaper AND a little bit better
[02:22:02] <les> sounds simplistic I know
[02:22:03] <SWPadnos> but we had to split the product line into the ultra-cheap unit that only triggered reliably, and the one with advanced features for a bunch more money
[02:22:27] <SWPadnos> that's great until the competition lowers their price (which our competition did when we came out with the lower cost unit)
[02:22:58] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure that the only reason people buy ours is that they're vastly superior - not just a little better
[02:23:11] <les> We think we have that covered
[02:23:16] <SWPadnos> (range of 1000 feet vs. 150-300, never misfires, etc)
[02:23:20] <les> and we hope we are right
[02:23:34] <SWPadnos> well - you do need to be careful, but you knew that
[02:23:45] <les> or else I assure you...I will lose a lot of money!!
[02:23:53] <SWPadnos> excellent - there's a motivator :)
[02:24:01] <les> ha yeah
[02:24:13] <SWPadnos> did you ever get a response from Shanghai?
[02:24:26] <les> many.
[02:24:51] <SWPadnos> heh - sunk their teeth into your flank? :)
[02:25:22] <les> I am now working witha major manufacturer if cnc routers
[02:25:28] <SWPadnos> cool.
[02:25:37] <Phydbleep> Anyone got any spare DRO scales to trade?
[02:25:41] <SWPadnos> you're targeting a slightly higher bracket than Jymmm, right?
[02:25:46] <les> it is exciting and dangerous
[02:25:50] <SWPadnos> (hard not to ;) )
[02:25:50] <les> a little
[02:27:01] <les> I have had a little bit of success in the past developing commercial products though...so some confidence is there
[02:27:56] <les> And I know full well that american and european machine tool manufacturing will be gone in two years
[02:28:02] <les> so
[02:28:12] <les> sure I am looking at it
[02:28:34] <gezr> les you saying that Monarch will fold in 2 years?
[02:28:39] <les> heh
[02:28:44] <SWPadnos> yeah - it seems to me that you need to target the niche / high end markets
[02:29:22] <les> In particular we have targeted low end light industrial
[02:29:25] <gezr> les : nevermind, I need to go to bed, you guys have fun
[02:29:36] <les> the heavy factory stuff is dead
[02:29:36] <SWPadnos> see ya gezr
[02:29:47] <les> thety cannot compete
[02:29:47] <SWPadnos> yep - also hobbyists
[02:29:55] <Phydbleep> G'nite gezr
[02:30:09] <les> hobby is a good market but very crowded
[02:30:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is in the hobbyist class..
[02:30:19] <SWPadnos> It's pretty amazing - about 5 years ago, Nikon came out with their F5 camera - an awesome film camera
[02:30:37] <les> light industrial seems to have a big performance hole
[02:30:44] <SWPadnos> it was $2500 for the body only, and they couldn't manufacture them fast enough to keep them on the shelf
[02:30:48] <les> so that is where we will be
[02:31:00] <les> F5 was good
[02:31:04] <SWPadnos> wealthy dot-com employees kept buying them up in droves
[02:31:17] <Phydbleep> No money to do anything else and I figure I can build wind/steam power units in a pinch. :)
[02:31:27] <les> heh
[02:31:34] <SWPadnos> it was amateurs that could afford it, rather than photographers that needed it who were buying it
[02:31:42] <les> Here is our plan:
[02:31:47] <SWPadnos> (it was a fantastic camera)
[02:31:56] <Phydbleep> World domination?
[02:32:42] <les> a servo driven 20x 20 mill...metal capable....001 accuracy...500 ipm speeds...under $10,000 msrp.
[02:32:44] <Phydbleep> les: Sorry, couldn'tt resist. :)
[02:33:06] <SWPadnos> 500 ipm cutting, or rapid?
[02:33:06] <les> oh world domination too hehe
[02:33:29] <Phydbleep> 20x20 what? mm, inches, feet, parsecs?
[02:33:35] <les> SWP depends on spindle hp certainly rapids though
[02:33:36] <SWPadnos> parsecs, of course
[02:33:43] <les> inches
[02:33:58] <les> no parsecs haha
[02:34:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm - interesting
[02:34:15] <SWPadnos> the trouble is motors in that range
[02:34:16] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Need a ball turning attachment for that..
[02:34:29] <SWPadnos> Got it - Jupiter :)
[02:34:46] <SWPadnos> with the sun for plasma cutting :)
[02:35:54] <les> anyway I am risking a lot of money on this project.
[02:36:04] <SWPadnos> I can imagine
[02:36:09] <les> I know we can do it
[02:36:24] <les> I can't predict the economy though.
[02:36:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep predicts "Doom and Gloom"
[02:37:00] <Phydbleep> The $ is falling fast. :(
[02:37:02] <les> heh....perhaps
[02:37:06] <SWPadnos> Well - the only advice I can offer is to make sure you don't forget the non-technical details (order fulfillment, shipping, returns, warrantee, manual, spec sheets), and of course advertising
[02:37:34] <SWPadnos> It's wway too easy to concentrate on the technical hurdles and the fun engineering
[02:37:40] <les> Phy: don't think $ are involved...
[02:37:59] <les> SWP ty
[02:38:08] <SWPadnos> (but you knew that already :) )
[02:38:26] <les> BIG Issue is EMC
[02:38:35] <SWPadnos> You'll be at Fest?
[02:38:40] <les> free...but tech sevice on it?
[02:38:52] <les> SWP: no
[02:38:53] <les> but
[02:38:58] <SWPadnos> bummer
[02:38:59] <Phydbleep> That's why I stay an engineer and let others worry about the marketing..
[02:39:09] <les> Paul will be down here after for a while
[02:39:18] <les> kinda fdest south.
[02:39:20] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:39:22] <les> fest
[02:39:28] <SWPadnos> (warm)
[02:40:05] <SWPadnos> You'd be quite helpful with some of the theoretical / math issues that are likely to come up
[02:40:22] <les> Phy: I am an engineer that started a company. So now I have to be a marketeer
[02:40:32] <SWPadnos> sucks, dont it?
[02:40:41] <les> SWP: Paul and I will deal with those issues
[02:41:00] <SWPadnos> OK - it would be better if some of those got in the way at fest :)
[02:41:22] <SWPadnos> (IE, if we had a good handle on $x during fest, rather than just after it)
[02:41:33] <les> We have one goal: Get segmentqueue working on a high performance machine.
[02:41:47] <les> without it emc is well....
[02:42:03] <SWPadnos> what processor are you planing on throwing at this?
[02:42:14] <SWPadnos> (CPU, that is)
[02:42:52] <les> a large powerful highly equiped army led by a general with alzheimers
[02:43:01] <SWPadnos> Intel?
[02:43:16] <les> intel or AMD
[02:43:19] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:43:27] <les> it is code that is the problem
[02:43:53] <SWPadnos> I'd say that any machine you can reasonably buy today should be able to process a lot of G-Code and motion segments in a real hurry
[02:44:12] <les> the fact is that emc will tear a modern high speed cnc machine to pieces
[02:44:37] <les> we will try very hard to fix that
[02:44:38] <SWPadnos> so I've heard - I really need to study the code and those papers a bit before Fest
[02:44:53] <les> please do
[02:45:26] <SWPadnos> unfortunately (for that), I'm working on some volunteer stuff, probably starting a large project, and then going on vacation before Fest
[02:45:38] <SWPadnos> so I'm a little booked at the moment :)
[02:45:59] <les> If we fail..open source emc will not be on our or anyone else's commercial machines
[02:46:09] <les> and I would hate that
[02:46:13] <Phydbleep> Ow!
[02:46:24] <SWPadnos> I'll probably be bringing some "light reading" material on vacation :)
[02:46:55] <les> read rogier and fred's papers
[02:47:04] <les> they come down here some
[02:47:17] <SWPadnos> I will. I also have the RCS handbook, and of course the EMC source on my laptop
[02:48:06] <SWPadnos> Unfortunately, I'll have to focus on the paying work though :)
[02:48:31] <les> Bottom line is: trapezoidal trajectory planning is an antique reminicent of the old days of paper tapes and point to point
[02:48:42] <les> it has no use now commercially
[02:48:46] <SWPadnos> oh sure - I can see that.
[02:49:10] <SWPadnos> I wonder if a simple velocity smoother would be of much use?
[02:49:14] <Phydbleep> Is there a tachometer feedback readout in emc?
[02:49:18] <SWPadnos> nope
[02:49:24] <les> we will try hard to fix that...
[02:49:27] <SWPadnos> (at least, I don't think so)
[02:49:31] <les> that is all I can say
[02:49:40] <les> Paul knows the code
[02:49:44] <SWPadnos> yes he does
[02:49:46] <les> I know the math
[02:50:01] <SWPadnos> that's a good combo
[02:50:04] <les> and we have a very high speed machine to test it on
[02:50:13] <Phydbleep> What's the A line in the Sherline readout? (X/Y/Z/A)
[02:50:22] <SWPadnos> rotary axis
[02:50:44] <Phydbleep> Ok.. I will need that.
[02:51:03] <Phydbleep> I need a spindle speed too. :)
[02:52:30] <SWPadnos> it's pretty easy to make one with a microcontroller and LCD
[02:52:38] <SWPadnos> (and a sensor, of course)
[02:52:39] <Jymmm> Besides paul, anyone have any comments (pro/con) to a CNC Sherline Mill? (either complete from sherline, or add my own motors/drivers)
[02:53:23] <SWPadnos> Not really.
[02:53:51] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: I have a sensor already, i wanted to feed it back to the main display. Also I want to be able to track the rpms for cutting plastics.
[02:54:26] <SWPadnos> you won't be able to vary feed based on spindle speed without a lot of work going into EMC first
[02:54:34] <Jymmm> * Jymmm pokes les for his $0.02
[02:54:42] <les> hmm
[02:54:49] <SWPadnos> it should be possible with EMC2 and HAL, but that feature isn't implemented yet, AFAIK
[02:54:57] <Jymmm> les : any comments (pro/con) to a CNC Sherline Mill? (either complete from sherline, or add my own motors/drivers)
[02:55:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wonders if he should look at the code and find out if he's griping at the guru..
[02:55:27] <les> Sherline is fine...I learned on a $139 unimat that fit in a shoebox
[02:55:36] <SWPadnos> I'm not the guru, by a long shot :)
[02:55:40] <Jymmm> never heard of unimat
[02:55:56] <Phydbleep> I have.. Watchmakers machine. :)
[02:56:09] <SWPadnos> tiny little machine - can be a lathe or a mill
[02:56:09] <Jymmm> Phydbleep whats so special about it?
[02:56:12] <les> Let me say this: sherline is good enough that....
[02:56:28] <les> I wouldn't dare compete with them.
[02:56:54] <SWPadnos> was it Proxxon or something that has a larger work envelope or greater stiffness (or something)?
[02:56:55] <Jymmm> les : WEll, I'm thinking HF or maybe sherline
[02:57:00] <SWPadnos> Sherline
[02:57:15] <SWPadnos> If you're looking at HF or Grizzly, stop now
[02:57:29] <SWPadnos> (relative to Sherline, at least)
[02:57:38] <les> sherline ok...Horrible Fright...I don't know
[02:58:03] <Phydbleep> Unimat is 90-100 mm swing with a sewing amchine motor.. Very precise if you know what your doing.. 0.00001 tolerences for the old ones.
[02:58:37] <les> I got VERY tight tolerances on the unimat.
[02:58:44] <Jymmm> Phydbleep whats so special about "watchmaker machine?
[02:58:54] <les> I bugged my dad to buty me one.
[02:59:16] <Phydbleep> Try to make a wristwatch on a 9x20. :)
[02:59:34] <les> Jymm: Unimat was just the sherline of 30 years ago.
[03:00:04] <Phydbleep> Does Sherline build them that small?
[03:00:06] <les> I got one when I was 15.
[03:00:21] <Jymmm> les ah, ok....
[03:00:21] <les> they are about the same size
[03:00:54] <les> unimat was a tiny lathe with a milling attachment
[03:01:10] <les> german I think
[03:01:22] <Phydbleep> The one I used was about 1/2 the size of a sewing machine.
[03:01:24] <SWPadnos> www.unimat.de
[03:01:34] <SWPadnos> " Soft and non-ferrous metals turn like a Werkzeugmacher."
[03:01:54] <Jymmm> http://www.proxxon.com/us/
[03:02:45] <les> heh
[03:02:58] <les> that is a newer model but similar
[03:03:02] <SWPadnos> friggin idiots don't allow Mozilla
[03:03:21] <Jymmm> nope, and have so much fscking JS too
[03:03:34] <Phydbleep> Bah! Use Microsoft Internet Explorer 4+ or Netscape Navigator 4.xx
[03:03:34] <Phydbleep> Please ensure that Javascript is enabled.
[03:03:44] <Phydbleep> Proxxon.com
[03:03:45] <SWPadnos> well - the european (english) page seems to work
[03:04:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos url?
[03:04:26] <Jymmm> nm
[03:04:31] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:04:48] <les> here is what I got when I was 15:
[03:05:03] <les> http://home1.gte.net/jaynes/lathes/Unimat-SLs/Mill%20Setup-01.jpg
[03:05:11] <les> it cost $139
[03:05:43] <SWPadnos> looks nicer than the newer ones - has character :)
[03:05:44] <Jymmm> les : $139 in 1886 was a LOT of money though =)
[03:05:50] <les> yes
[03:05:55] <Phydbleep> That's the beast. :)
[03:06:01] <les> still have it BTW
[03:06:11] <Phydbleep> Lucky SOB. :)
[03:06:16] <Jymmm> les does it actually still work?
[03:06:28] <SWPadnos> les: send it to Phydbleep so he can make himself one :)
[03:06:31] <les> It is stored at my folks place in florida
[03:06:49] <Phydbleep> Most it will ever need is a little oil and motor brushes.
[03:07:03] <SWPadnos> and a CPU upgrade :)
[03:07:10] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: I have the 11x48 SB.
[03:07:31] <SWPadnos> yeah - but can you use it as a drill press? ;)
[03:07:38] <les> 11x48 sb is good.
[03:07:48] <SWPadnos> or a milling machine?
[03:08:03] <Phydbleep> I actually could make a smaller unit to make a smaller unit, etc.. :)
[03:08:29] <SWPadnos> like pointing a video camera at a TV showing the camera output showing the ....
[03:08:31] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: With the right attachments, Yes.
[03:09:14] <Jymmm> Ya know, I think that's one (silly) reason I don't want the sherline; can't use it as a drill press.
[03:09:28] <SWPadnos> go to sears for a drill press
[03:10:28] <Phydbleep> Harbor Fright. :)
[03:10:59] <Jymmm> I have a craftsman 12" press already
[03:11:16] <SWPadnos> well - that's plenty for drilling.
[03:11:30] <Jymmm> but not precision drilling
[03:11:32] <SWPadnos> (though it is a bit weak, if you have the same motor I have - the 1/3 HP)
[03:11:44] <Jymmm> 2/3 HP
[03:11:59] <Jymmm> http://content.sears.com/data/product_images/009/21912/00921912000-dlv.jpg
[03:12:02] <SWPadnos> well - you can probably drill through 3/4" structural steel easier than I could :)
[03:12:23] <Jymmm> mine looks bigger than that pic though
[03:12:24] <Phydbleep> Presicion drilling / milling is why I want the attachments for the SB.
[03:12:24] <SWPadnos> (before I got the phase converter running)
[03:12:32] <Jymmm> SB ?
[03:12:36] <SWPadnos> South Bend
[03:12:38] <Phydbleep> SouthBend
[03:12:39] <Jymmm> ah
[03:12:55] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Are you a commercial operation?
[03:13:00] <SWPadnos> oh - you have the tall one - I've got the short benchtop machine
[03:13:06] <SWPadnos> yes and no
[03:13:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Mine is bench top too...
[03:13:18] <SWPadnos> I'm an electrical engineer / programmer
[03:13:34] <Phydbleep> I may have some 2-3HP VFD units coming up.
[03:13:35] <SWPadnos> the machine stuff is a vhobby at this point, but hopefully will be a business soon
[03:14:05] <SWPadnos> Mine's about 10 years old, and shorter - otherwise pretty similar
[03:14:15] <les> oh good...become a business
[03:14:33] <SWPadnos> well - making things with machines, not necessarily making machines :)
[03:14:51] <SWPadnos> I'm more interested in making the electronics that go around the machine
[03:14:52] <les> whatever makes money
[03:15:10] <SWPadnos> (and making watercooling blocks, which is why I originally started this machining thing)
[03:15:18] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is an engineer/programmer/technician/dumpster diver.
[03:15:19] <les> understand I am taking a great risk making machine tools
[03:15:31] <Jymmm> Ok, how many axis is this?!
http://www.proxxon.com/images/produkte/24104.jpg
[03:15:47] <SWPadnos> 4 * sqrt(3)
[03:16:06] <Phydbleep> 4 or 5.
[03:16:33] <SWPadnos> Well - since you probablt wouldn't use the lathe head at the same time, it's 4
[03:16:36] <SWPadnos> probably
[03:17:01] <SWPadnos> or 5 - you're right
[03:17:31] <SWPadnos> I don't know if the vertical column can be used in machining, or if it's a "position and clamp" mechanism
[03:17:43] <SWPadnos> looks usable
[03:17:45] <Jymmm> I'm sorry, that site is the worse and most annoying use of JS I've seen yet.
[03:18:08] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if that was the one I remember people talking about
[03:18:32] <SWPadnos> her ewe go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506867853
[03:19:36] <Jymmm> Heh, that one looks like it was retrofitted from previous water-power use =)
[03:19:44] <SWPadnos> yeah
[03:19:53] <Jymmm> water/wind/horse
[03:19:58] <SWPadnos> I have a friend with a clean one, but I think he might have it sold to someone else
[03:21:07] <Jymmm> Heh, it's near one of our friends too... Long Beach CA
[03:21:50] <SWPadnos> This one's more my style (and location):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506584584
[03:22:19] <SWPadnos> in fact, I may just buy that one
[03:22:29] <SWPadnos> (so don't bid on it)
[03:23:46] <Jymmm> 1007 hits on it already
[03:23:58] <SWPadnos> I noticed that - but only one bid so far
[03:24:18] <SWPadnos> I have to be in Boston at the end of the month, so I can spend a little more on it
[03:24:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos if you REALLY want it, you better go get bid snipper
[03:24:27] <SWPadnos> I'm a sniper myself :)
[03:24:39] <SWPadnos> (2Mbit DSL + an atomic clock)
[03:24:48] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you can't bid down to the last 4 seconds though
[03:24:54] <SWPadnos> I routinely do
[03:25:00] <asdfqwega> I recommend bidwatcher
[03:25:17] <SWPadnos> I can hit something within 2 seconds of the end if I'm careful
[03:25:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos what about a $2 outbid though?
[03:25:43] <asdfqwega> Having broadband helps, too
[03:25:50] <SWPadnos> yes it does
[03:26:05] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: an auto-bidder outbidding me by $2?
[03:26:05] <Phydbleep> http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend/page3.html
[03:26:06] <Jymmm> and turning off images too =)
[03:26:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos yeah
[03:26:17] <Phydbleep> That's pretty close.
[03:26:54] <SWPadnos> I've never had that happen to me - the only thing that I've seen is my bid not being high enough by the time I hit "Send" on the confirmation page
[03:27:33] <SWPadnos> that's a great site (lathes.co.uk)
[03:28:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I had that happen once to me. I had two windows open too... 1st bid, 2nd bid in the other. I didn't have time to change the bid in window #2 by $2 more.
[03:28:30] <SWPadnos> nope - you get one shot at it
[03:28:50] <SWPadnos> you have to have a bid already placed, and be waiting at the "are you sure" page to make it work
[03:28:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Well, I should have bid much higher in window #2. would have won it
[03:29:16] <SWPadnos> it also helps to test the time difference ahead of the auction ending
[03:29:39] <Jymmm> oh it was last 6 siconds of the auction
[03:29:42] <Jymmm> seconds
[03:29:51] <Jymmm> maybe 12 seconds
[03:30:06] <Jymmm> I just wasn't expecting to be outbod that high for soem reason
[03:30:10] <Jymmm> outbid
[03:30:13] <SWPadnos> the bid time is when the http request is sent to eBay, not when you get the response back, so that's a help
[03:30:25] <SWPadnos> I'm almost always outbod :)
[03:30:38] <SWPadnos> (I haven't worked out in amny months)
[03:30:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and outmind too =)
[03:30:47] <SWPadnos> rarely on that one ;)
[03:31:09] <SWPadnos> I hang around with dumb people, so I feel smarter :)
[03:31:37] <Jymmm> les : you gonna take that shit? SWPadnos just called you a dumbass AND to your face too!
[03:31:59] <Phydbleep> And here's what i want/need.
[03:32:02] <Phydbleep> http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/news/oct97/oct97.html
[03:32:39] <SWPadnos> Sure - an XZ table :)
[03:32:42] <les> ha
[03:32:47] <SWPadnos> (or YZ)
[03:33:23] <SWPadnos> I have a spare ballscrew with around 6" travel
[03:34:31] <les> SWP and I have engineering degrees I think. Engineering degrees are not given to dumbasses right?
[03:34:47] <les> heh
[03:34:51] <Phydbleep> Actually that one plugs into the saddle so I only need one...
[03:34:56] <SWPadnos> Who said I had a degree? :)
[03:34:59] <Jymmm> Doesn't Bush have a degree?
[03:35:14] <les> that doesn't count
[03:35:15] <SWPadnos> well - it's not an engineering degree
[03:35:31] <SWPadnos> Isn't his in Bid-Ness or something?
[03:35:42] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: What do you want for the ballscrew?
[03:35:43] <Jymmm> no, it's in BullShit
[03:36:00] <SWPadnos> well - he's a lying sack of shit, but that's unimportant right now
[03:36:13] <les> Bush has a degree in "my daddy has money"
[03:36:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is waiting for him to get the 3'rd degree from a grand-jury.
[03:37:00] <les> I have a degree in female anatomy...
[03:37:05] <SWPadnos> well - he didn't fool around with an intern, so that'll never happen
[03:37:15] <les> and aerospace engineering.
[03:37:29] <SWPadnos> He just killed tons of people and screwed our position with the rest of the world
[03:37:37] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: Might have with a "reporter" though.. :)
[03:37:54] <SWPadnos> or Condi - miss "My Husb... the President ..."
[03:38:25] <les> heh
[03:38:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep tries again..
[03:38:54] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: What do you want for the ballscrew?
[03:39:24] <SWPadnos> hold on - looking for my cost (which will be mhy sale price as well)
[03:40:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm - this doesn't look quite right:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506505002
[03:41:07] <SWPadnos> I paid $40.37 for it
[03:41:13] <Phydbleep> Yeah it does.. It's laying on its face.
[03:41:22] <SWPadnos> OK
[03:43:53] <Phydbleep> SWPadnos: what's the deal with the last ebay listing? One of yours?
[03:43:59] <SWPadnos> nope
[03:44:36] <SWPadnos> Just found it - I searched for "lathe milling" or something like that
[03:45:45] <Phydbleep> Ah.. That's actually more complicated than i want..
[03:46:16] <SWPadnos> man - this is nice (but a little expensive):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506958094
[03:47:06] <Phydbleep> Nice, but spendy..
[03:47:13] <SWPadnos> yep
[03:49:04] <SWPadnos> Here ya go, Jymmm:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3871491713
[03:49:24] <SWPadnos> and a rotary table to match :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506005914
[03:50:13] <SWPadnos> I love the specs of that rotary table
[03:50:42] <les> folks, I must go...because unlike paul I have to sleep some.
[03:50:57] <SWPadnos> night - It's my bedtime too.
[03:51:02] <SWPadnos> see you all later
[03:51:08] <les> bye
[03:51:13] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[03:54:43] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. That rotary table is big enough to bolt my shop to..
[04:12:30] <Jymmm> G'Night Les
[04:13:21] <Phydbleep> les: Are you coding for emc?
[04:14:23] <Phydbleep> Rats.. missed him..
[04:30:27] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does a cvs checkout of emc2
[05:21:53] <Phydbleep> Igor! It's alive!
[05:22:11] <Phydbleep> Now to make the interface elecronics..
[05:23:37] <Phydbleep> And string a Cat-5 line to the shop so I can access the rest of the net..
[06:51:51] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep decides a PII 300 is just too damn slow for emc and an mp3 player.. :)
[07:13:52] <anonimasu> :)
[07:13:55] <anonimasu> lol
[07:16:49] <Phydbleep> Hmmm..PII 400 or PIII 800.. Err on the side of CPU cycles.. PIII 800 it is.. :)
[07:17:23] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is ass-deep in junque.
[07:18:24] <asdfqwega> Junk = stuff you throw away
[07:18:25] <anonimasu> well anything is too slow ;) to run mp3's and emc
[07:18:29] <asdfqwega> stuff = junk you keep
[07:23:27] <Phydbleep> junque = stuff you should throw away but don't because it's usefull..
[07:27:24] <asdfqwega> Besides that...why on earth would you want to combine emc and mp3's?
[07:27:38] <asdfqwega> Best keep it separate
[07:28:14] <asdfqwega> I'm using a Celeron 400 for my machine
[07:28:18] <Phydbleep> Music in a small shop.. Lack of LCD flat panels for displays and CRTs are huge.
[07:28:58] <asdfqwega> Same problem here - not enough displays
[07:29:32] <asdfqwega> At least, not enough monitors > 12"
[07:29:42] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has about 96 suare feet of shop scace.
[07:29:50] <Phydbleep> square
[07:30:21] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep changes the batteries in the keyboard..
[07:30:23] <asdfqwega> Still, I have 7 working computers
[07:30:46] <anonimasu> well, if you run emc and a mp3 player your in for a nice surprise when estop wont reply during contouring your vise
[07:30:58] <anonimasu> ^_^
[07:31:08] <asdfqwega> o_O
[07:31:16] <asdfqwega> Not a nice mental image
[07:31:27] <Phydbleep> OK... PII 400 for EMC and PIII 800 for MP#'s.. :)
[07:31:35] <anonimasu> um, switch em..
[07:31:41] <anonimasu> :)
[07:31:58] <anonimasu> have you ran emc on a computer before?
[07:32:02] <anonimasu> err been running
[07:32:08] <Phydbleep> 1200 RPM max on the lathe.
[07:32:31] <anonimasu> it's the base period you need a fast computer for
[07:32:44] <Phydbleep> I have a Compaq PII 300 with BDI on it sitting here for bench testing.
[07:32:56] <asdfqwega> I'd actually be using a Cel 733 for emc...but I had to thermal epoxy the heatsink on in this box :)
[07:33:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[07:33:23] <anonimasu> I'll grab my p3 800 soon the 600 is too slow
[07:33:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep uses Thermal-Kote and springs.
[07:34:20] <Phydbleep> Makes those heatsinks sit flat. :)
[07:34:23] <asdfqwega> Steppers need the MHz, that's one of the few drawbacks
[07:35:45] <Phydbleep> I was looking at DRO scales for absolute positioning.. Not so many CPU cycles counting steps. :)
[07:36:36] <anonimasu> glass ones or chinese ones?
[07:36:49] <Phydbleep> Chinese glass. Why?
[07:37:36] <anonimasu_> hm, the (cheap)chinese scales are +/- 0.03
[07:37:42] <Phydbleep> Or maybe a rotary encoder/chain setup.
[07:37:44] <anonimasu_> less in reality
[07:38:35] <anonimasu_> I like the thought of running encoders on the screw and mapping the whole screw out..
[07:38:52] <Phydbleep> Rotary encoder and a gear driven by the manual positioning rack.
[07:40:13] <anonimasu_> if you keep thoose parts yes :)
[07:40:36] <anonimasu_> good scales would be better I think but the price is kind of high
[07:40:38] <Phydbleep> Yeah, This will be a "bolt-on".
[07:41:29] <Phydbleep> I saw a thing about printing your own scales and then etching them on glass stripes somewhere.
[07:42:30] <anonimasu_> :)
[07:44:51] <Phydbleep> Crap.. i must go to the store and get food.. BBIAW..
[09:49:21] <alex_joni> morning paul
[09:49:26] <alex_joni> did the sun wake you? :D
[09:56:53] <paul_c> * paul_c slaps alex_joni around with a wet kipper
[09:58:59] <alex_joni> again?
[09:59:12] <alex_joni> try smthg new this time
[09:59:14] <alex_joni> :)
[10:04:13] <paul_c> Welsh rarebit ?
[10:04:48] <alex_joni> what's that?
[10:06:01] <paul_c> cheese on toast
[10:06:13] <alex_joni> sounds ok :)
[10:06:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is kinda hungry
[10:09:23] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is back from retail hell as well.
[10:09:42] <alex_joni> hello Phydbleep
[10:09:54] <Phydbleep> Ello. :)
[10:10:11] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is trying to emc a 1937 South-Bend lathe.
[10:12:13] <A-L-P-H-A> dang... hungry
[10:12:18] <A-L-P-H-A> italy
[10:12:20] <A-L-P-H-A> germany
[10:12:22] <A-L-P-H-A> finland.
[10:12:24] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[10:12:34] <paul_c> Not wanting to sound rude..... But why use a vintage SB ?
[10:12:46] <Phydbleep> It was all I could afford.
[10:12:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder is the 1937 actually work some coin?
[10:13:02] <A-L-P-H-A> get it fully restored?
[10:13:39] <Phydbleep> This is all going to be bolt-on.. Full resto would be nice..
[10:13:43] <paul_c> It will be worth considerably more as a manual lathe than a CNC one..
[10:14:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Probably true. :)
[10:14:21] <Phydbleep> Actuall I want it more for readouts than control.
[10:15:34] <Phydbleep> I want X/Y/RPM..
[10:16:19] <paul_c> For a lathe, you need X Z & optionally, RPM
[10:16:35] <A-L-P-H-A> and a little magic pixy dust. :)
[10:17:03] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is all out of pixie-dust..
[10:17:29] <A-L-P-H-A> call IBM... maybe they have more than server pixy dust... hopefully they have magic pixy dust. :)
[10:17:38] <Phydbleep> Can I substitute some of what the politicians have been smoking?
[10:19:04] <Phydbleep> Hmmm.. Better not.. I don't want the readouts saying that the current Y axis position is Tehran..
[10:19:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to see my doctor... my throat hurts... and I need to see my dentist.
[10:20:08] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: So put down the screwdriver and go.. :)
[10:21:39] <A-L-P-H-A> it's 6:31am.
[10:22:23] <Phydbleep> It's 04:30 here..
[10:23:03] <paul_c> So who was up early ?
[10:23:17] <A-L-P-H-A> haven't slept yet.
[10:23:22] <A-L-P-H-A> woke up at 5pm yesterday.
[10:23:27] <A-L-P-H-A> my sleep cycle is a little off. :)
[10:23:39] <Phydbleep> Not I said the tech..
[10:24:40] <Phydbleep> Mine is way off.. 06:00 to 12:00 sleep cycle..
[10:26:00] <Phydbleep> ??? The kernel that is running the BDI is not available as a source package???
[10:26:20] <paul_c> You have the CD ?
[10:26:35] <Phydbleep> I have the 4.20 iso.
[10:26:50] <paul_c> You have the kernel source package.
[10:28:31] <Phydbleep> Hmmm... Fedora Core 3 is the 2.6.10 kernel.. I wonder if emc would work..
[10:29:20] <alex_joni> Phy: it could, but you need rtai-patching
[10:29:46] <paul_c> If you are going to play mix'n'match with rpm & deb.....
[10:29:51] <Phydbleep> I think the one I'm using for mythtv has it..
[10:30:22] <paul_c> do NOT use the RH kernel sources.
[10:30:39] <paul_c> the RAI patch will probably fail.
[10:31:28] <alex_joni> paul_c: that makes it even more interesting to mess with
[10:31:41] <alex_joni> it's a challenge to see why a patch fails =))
[10:32:09] <paul_c> and when the kernel blows up in your face ?
[10:32:10] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep waits for synaptic to do its thing..
[10:32:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni likes kernels that blow up
[10:32:51] <alex_joni> that's why I'm still running a 2.2 around here
[10:33:02] <Phydbleep> Nope.. No emc from any of my nonstandard sources.
[10:33:11] <alex_joni> hehehehe
[10:33:21] <alex_joni> Phydblepp: that would be smthg
[10:33:41] <alex_joni> there's only one source for emc-deb stuff
[10:35:25] <Phydbleep> Do I really need the rtai stuff if all I want is readouts?
[10:35:52] <alex_joni> depends on how fast you want the readouts
[10:35:57] <paul_c> You have encoders fitted ?
[10:36:00] <Phydbleep> realtime.
[10:36:14] <alex_joni> rtai=realtime
[10:36:15] <Phydbleep> paul_c: Not yet.
[10:36:15] <alex_joni> ;)
[10:36:34] <paul_c> What sort of encoders are you planning on using ?
[10:36:35] <alex_joni> but probably you'll be ok with an board reading/counting the encoders
[10:36:38] <Phydbleep> 10ms delay max.
[10:37:14] <Phydbleep> paul_c: DRO scales or rotary/chain drive.
[10:38:05] <paul_c> Using those cheap LCD DRO readouts ?
[10:39:03] <Phydbleep> No, The cheap sealed scales.. No LCD just a cable.
[10:39:03] <paul_c> OK....
[10:39:04] <Phydbleep> I need a 12" and a 48"
[10:39:12] <paul_c> You realize they won't be any good for CNC
[10:39:23] <Phydbleep> ?
[10:39:32] <paul_c> update rate is too slow
[10:41:02] <Phydbleep> The ones I saw are raw scales.. update rate is whatever the circuit you build can handle.. I was going to use a PIC 18F452 and sample @ 5 mHz..
[10:41:21] <alex_joni> DON'T use PIC ;)
[10:41:29] <Phydbleep> ?
[10:41:37] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hates PIC
[10:41:46] <alex_joni> last one went @ 50 Hz
[10:42:05] <alex_joni> I just couldn't stand it anymore ;)
[10:42:10] <A-L-P-H-A> pic = bad. atmel = good :)
[10:42:22] <alex_joni> alpha: pic = bad, !pic=good
[10:42:30] <Phydbleep> I got some free ones from MicroChip for blowing one up in a new and unusual way..
[10:42:52] <A-L-P-H-A> what was the new and unusual way?
[10:43:37] <Phydbleep> Nobody knows for sure.. They peeled the top off at the lab and it was blown in a pattern they'd never seen before.
[10:44:07] <A-L-P-H-A> You actually sent it back?
[10:44:36] <Phydbleep> Yeah, They requested it when i called to check why it would no longer flash.
[10:44:39] <A-L-P-H-A> Couldn't have just bought a new one? or was it bust before you bought it?
[10:44:49] <paul_c> http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/XP102.jpg - This sort of scale ?
[10:45:04] <A-L-P-H-A> tiny picture.
[10:46:27] <Phydbleep> Those have the LCD/electronics.. The ones I saw were raw scales with a 2 meter cable.
[10:47:31] <Phydbleep> http://www.sargon-dro.com/XTG300.html Like theese..
[10:47:59] <paul_c> Optical glass scales
[10:48:30] <alex_joni> standard quadrature output
[10:48:45] <alex_joni> you'd be ok with an LS7166 (or LS7266) board
[10:48:50] <Phydbleep> I figure 5mHz sampling should be ok for 5 channels.
[10:49:00] <paul_c> Avoid the 40micron scales - Resolution is too low for CNC
[10:49:21] <paul_c> You don't need a PIC for tose.
[10:49:34] <alex_joni> Phydbleep: go with some specialized chips (like the LS's I mentioned)
[10:49:44] <alex_joni> they do a lot more than just counting
[10:49:55] <paul_c> http://www.timgoldstein.com/kulagadro/dro.html
[10:49:57] <alex_joni> make a simple ISA board, stick into a PC
[10:50:22] <Phydbleep> XTG350 (10 µm) [0.0005 inch] should be more than enough for me.
[10:51:35] <anonimasu> hm, how much is a scale like that?
[10:53:40] <Phydbleep> Not a clew, But I have a buddy in Beijing that I'm going to have hunt up a set for "testing". :)
[10:53:59] <alex_joni> heh
[10:54:02] <anonimasu> hm..
[10:54:02] <anonimasu> :/
[10:54:07] <paul_c> If you want to CNC.... Work on a resolution ten times better than the desired accuracy
[10:54:09] <alex_joni> need to rough anyone up for that?
[10:54:15] <alex_joni> I'd give you a hand :D
[10:54:28] <anonimasu> alex_joni: bad day?
[10:54:44] <alex_joni> nope
[10:54:48] <paul_c> 18" 10micron - $460
[10:54:50] <anonimasu> hm.I want one of thoose 1um scales..
[10:54:51] <alex_joni> but I'd like some of those scales
[10:55:07] <anonimasu> paul_c: are thoose good enough to be of use?
[10:55:17] <paul_c> imicron - $785
[10:55:39] <anonimasu> how long are thoose?
[10:56:13] <anonimasu> ah 18"
[10:56:34] <paul_c> Plus 3.5"
[10:56:41] <paul_c> so 18" travel
[10:56:50] <paul_c> 21.5" overall
[10:57:11] <anonimasu> too small to be useful :(
[10:57:29] <paul_c> they do a 40"
[10:57:48] <anonimasu> that's more like it
[10:57:49] <paul_c> and an 80" in another range
[10:57:49] <Phydbleep> and an 11 footer..
[10:58:06] <alex_joni> 80" would be a bit more than 400$ I reckon ;)
[10:58:16] <alex_joni> even 800$
[10:58:33] <anonimasu> heh
[10:58:41] <anonimasu> 40" would be nice
[10:59:19] <anonimasu> although expensive
[10:59:29] <paul_c> The HiRes scales are on par with the stuff I can get over here...
[10:59:33] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep would need a 60" for this beast.
[10:59:44] <anonimasu> well relatively expensive..
[11:00:04] <anonimasu> I could always buy hidehan glass scales locally but the price would be more then my car costs
[11:00:28] <anonimasu> ~5800$
[11:00:29] <anonimasu> :)
[11:00:35] <alex_joni> cheap car
[11:00:38] <alex_joni> :P
[11:00:41] <anonimasu> yeah..
[11:00:47] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... I got mine for $50..
[11:00:52] <alex_joni> your car?
[11:00:54] <Phydbleep> Car that is.. :)
[11:00:57] <alex_joni> heh
[11:01:20] <alex_joni> I payed way more for my bike ;)
[11:01:25] <alex_joni> 500$
[11:01:50] <Phydbleep> I payed more to fill the gas tank in the wifes truck the other day.. :\
[11:02:22] <Phydbleep> What a depressing thought..
[11:02:32] <anonimasu> yep
[11:03:52] <paul_c> buggerMe... Newall do 0.1 micron resolution...
[11:04:24] <Phydbleep> paul_c: No thanks... You're too hairy..
[11:04:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is buggering paul_c
[11:04:50] <alex_joni> with a stick that is
[11:04:57] <paul_c> * paul_c reaches for the chain saw.
[11:05:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni changes the stick for a nice Ti bar
[11:05:27] <anonimasu> lol
[11:05:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep steals the Ti bar and makes some nice toys.
[11:05:53] <anonimasu> * anonimasu turns a bat out of the TI bar
[11:06:43] <anonimasu> g1 y-2 x40
[11:06:46] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:06:52] <Phydbleep> Hmmm... I guess I'm going to have to make a furnace burner for my first major project after i finish rebuiling the lathe.
[11:08:13] <Phydbleep> Either that or a flamethrower and use it to clean the kitchen..
[11:08:13] <paul_c> * paul_c goes to phone Newall's office in Peterborough
[11:08:24] <anonimasu> hehe
[11:08:33] <anonimasu> paul_c: ordering?
[11:08:56] <Phydbleep> Gawd!... You'd think a bunch of students lived here.. Oh wait.. Never mind.. :)
[11:09:02] <paul_c> Oh. They've moved...
[11:09:31] <paul_c> wanna see what the prices are like.
[11:13:43] <anonimasu> ok
[11:16:08] <A-L-P-H-A> what are we yapping about now?
[11:16:29] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... I don't know if I'll have enough energy to go to the driving range with these girls.
[11:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm...
[11:16:42] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: heh just go :)
[11:16:53] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Keep them home and putt?
[11:17:09] <A-L-P-H-A> shove my balls into holes so to speak? hahaha
[11:17:18] <A-L-P-H-A> that was evil.
[11:17:25] <A-L-P-H-A> >:)
[11:17:57] <Phydbleep> That's my trademark.. Being a complete and utter bastard. :)
[11:18:44] <Phydbleep> Saves having to deal with customers/sales reps/middle manegment.. :)
[11:20:19] <Phydbleep> Hides the fact that i can't spell for [CENSORED] when I'm running on ~5 hours of sleep..
[11:22:20] <paul_c> Bah... Lunch time in South Wigston
[11:23:01] <alex_joni> paul_c: if you get up so late ..
[11:23:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[11:23:03] <A-L-P-H-A> wigston?
[11:23:04] <A-L-P-H-A> where's that?
[11:23:13] <A-L-P-H-A> gonna have spotted dick for dessert?
[11:23:17] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A pokes fun of the brits.
[11:23:27] <alex_joni> now this is nice
[11:23:36] <A-L-P-H-A> what's up AJ?
[11:23:37] <paul_c> * paul_c pokes fun at the 'mercuns
[11:23:42] <alex_joni> just tried a code on a Tini microcontroller
[11:23:47] <alex_joni> it's a 8051 core
[11:23:52] <A-L-P-H-A> wth is an 'mecunt?
[11:23:52] <alex_joni> but it's running some java :)
[11:24:02] <paul_c> Now that is sick
[11:24:08] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A is a Canuck!
[11:24:09] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep attaches a set of "Vice-Grips" to paul_c's "fun"..
[11:24:11] <alex_joni> clocked at 37.5 MHz
[11:24:19] <alex_joni> I made a simple LED-toggling ap
[11:24:25] <alex_joni> quess what the rate is ?
[11:24:28] <alex_joni> guess even
[11:24:38] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Bloody fast?
[11:24:41] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, at 37.5Mhz? uh... so it is just blinking 50/50? :D
[11:24:54] <alex_joni> the 8051 is clocked at 37.5 MHz
[11:25:00] <A-L-P-H-A> is that an atmel? 8051
[11:25:09] <alex_joni> the LED blinking is at 1 KHz :))
[11:25:12] <A-L-P-H-A> it is!
[11:25:13] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Intel
[11:25:16] <alex_joni> now that's what I call efficient
[11:25:21] <anonimasu> nice
[11:25:23] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.google.ca/search?q=8051+core&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
[11:25:31] <A-L-P-H-A> it an an atmel. 8051
[11:25:35] <alex_joni> the rest is the Java overhead
[11:25:42] <alex_joni> alpha: not atmel
[11:25:47] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, oh. what then?
[11:25:51] <A-L-P-H-A> there is an Atmel 8051
[11:26:03] <alex_joni> there are about 20 8051
[11:26:11] <alex_joni> I meant manufacturers
[11:26:18] <Phydbleep> The original was intel.
[11:26:21] <alex_joni> this one's dalls
[11:26:24] <alex_joni> dallas even
[11:26:32] <alex_joni> philips does some too
[11:26:42] <alex_joni> atmel too
[11:26:44] <A-L-P-H-A> hey! an 8051 can go as fast as 50MHz.
[11:26:45] <alex_joni> and a lot of others
[11:27:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://ca.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=10217&Row=103787&Site=CA
[11:27:16] <alex_joni> pretty stupid though (8bit, not very advanced)
[11:27:31] <alex_joni> ALPHA: try an 80552 .. should be a bit better
[11:27:49] <A-L-P-H-A> no, 8bit is a pain...
[11:27:55] <A-L-P-H-A> especially if you want to do 32 bit math. :(
[11:28:18] <A-L-P-H-A> nothing with an 80552 on digikey.
[11:28:23] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: True, true.. Use a 386 at least.
[11:28:42] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPandos helped me with my 32 bit math on my atmel.
[11:28:51] <A-L-P-H-A> atmel 90s2313... made a tachometer.
[11:29:18] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What's the readout? LED LCE?
[11:29:21] <A-L-P-H-A> good for 1/420 RPM.
[11:29:43] <A-L-P-H-A> LED, also can output to RS232, or TTL. your choice. :)
[11:30:25] <Phydbleep> What's the part count for a rs232 only version?
[11:31:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep figures about 16 including a MAX232 and the support discretes..
[11:31:42] <A-L-P-H-A> lets see... 4 caps for the max232 chip. + atmel + 1uF cap for clean power to the atmel... 8 + power supply. So I could do it with 10 components. I could use an max233 which would make the parts down to like 5.
[11:32:06] <A-L-P-H-A> oh! + the LCD (not LED as mentioned earlier)
[11:32:51] <Phydbleep> You forgot the resonator and the 10pf caps for the timebase.
[11:32:52] <A-L-P-H-A> crap... + 7404 + LEDIR + IRDect.
[11:32:55] <paul_c> * paul_c takes a call from a Newall rep....
[11:33:00] <A-L-P-H-A> yup.
[11:33:07] <A-L-P-H-A> so I'm getting up there. ~15.
[11:33:16] <paul_c> The microSyn scales are good on pricing...
[11:33:27] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c... tell them you don't want any unless it's free.
[11:33:38] <Phydbleep> And i was figuring optical , 2 sensors 1 illuminator. so ~ 16. :)
[11:33:40] <paul_c> 450mm scale, 0.1 micron resolution
[11:33:49] <paul_c> �430
[11:33:57] <A-L-P-H-A> act... that's like $1000CDN.
[11:34:02] <A-L-P-H-A> actually more.
[11:34:03] <anonimasu> lol
[11:34:13] <anonimasu> well, way out of my league
[11:34:16] <A-L-P-H-A> 1lb = 2.31938CDN.
[11:34:31] <A-L-P-H-A> !calc 430 * 2.31938
[11:34:39] <A-L-P-H-A> damn chanserv... useless.
[11:34:55] <A-L-P-H-A> $997.3334 + shipping + brokerage fees + taxes.
[11:35:01] <anonimasu> 997.3334
[11:35:13] <anonimasu> is that in USD?
[11:35:14] <paul_c> Sagon glass scale - $785
[11:35:15] <A-L-P-H-A> my estimating math's pretty good...
[11:35:31] <A-L-P-H-A> less than 0.3% off.
[11:35:31] <paul_c> Newall $800
[11:35:43] <anonimasu> well not that horrid then..
[11:35:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I attribute that to the fluxation of currency. :)
[11:36:11] <anonimasu> reasonable..
[11:36:17] <anonimasu> although I have no need for 0.1 micron scales..
[11:36:34] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, what's the length of that scale?
[11:36:35] <anonimasu> not like my mill has anything close to it in position accuracy
[11:37:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I've got 0.0002" positional inaccuracy. :) But it's repeatable... so I'm fine.
[11:37:23] <A-L-P-H-A> if anything... I'll just put the small part in the freezer for an hour.
[11:37:23] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[11:37:27] <anonimasu> :]
[11:37:44] <anonimasu> hm, how many 0,000 is there in a micron. ;)
[11:37:55] <Phydbleep> A lot. :)
[11:38:01] <A-L-P-H-A> ohoh! paul_c, can you check if you can get a DA300 3mm collet and cost?
[11:38:10] <paul_c> one micron is 0.001mm
[11:38:19] <A-L-P-H-A> DA300 = erickson 300 series collet.
[11:38:25] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: One sec
[11:38:39] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c. thanks. I found hardinge makes them for $18.50USD + shipping.
[11:38:47] <A-L-P-H-A> just wondering if it'd be cheaper to get it from across the pond.
[11:39:50] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.hardingetooling.com/PartSpec.asp?ID=18910017030000 <-- non stock. don't know when I'll be able to get one.
[11:40:09] <A-L-P-H-A> oops + $0.25
[11:41:33] <anonimasu> laters everyone
[11:41:40] <paul_c> �6.40 plus VAT
[11:41:48] <paul_c> and shipping
[11:41:48] <A-L-P-H-A> that's it?
[11:42:04] <paul_c> �7.52
[11:42:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 7.52lbs x 2.32 = ~17.50CDN + shipping?
[11:43:14] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c. it's the size of an eraser... what would shipping to be Canada?
[11:43:14] <paul_c> would need to call them..
[11:43:39] <alex_joni> ALPHA: depends on how you ship
[11:43:50] <alex_joni> you might get a drug dealer to swallow it
[11:43:54] <A-L-P-H-A> air mail?
[11:43:56] <alex_joni> and carry it across the pond
[11:43:58] <alex_joni> LOL
[11:44:08] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, I have 5 sitting here... different sizes.
[11:44:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I've swallowed vitimines bigger than them.
[11:44:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it was flax seed oil.
[11:44:30] <alex_joni> or ask paul_c to put it in a small CNC-made boat
[11:44:37] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[11:44:38] <alex_joni> with a small sail
[11:44:50] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, I'm interested. how do I order?
[11:44:56] <alex_joni> and pray for those currents to go the right direction
[11:45:06] <A-L-P-H-A> aj, they won't...
[11:45:23] <A-L-P-H-A> North Atlantic currents run west to east.
[11:45:51] <alex_joni> there's one that's running the other way
[11:45:54] <A-L-P-H-A> makes a big upside down U.
[11:45:58] <alex_joni> but it's more to the south
[11:46:02] <alex_joni> iirc
[11:46:07] <A-L-P-H-A> way south.
[11:46:10] <A-L-P-H-A> like at the equator.
[11:46:16] <alex_joni> yeah
[11:46:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in CANADA!
[11:46:23] <alex_joni> hmm.. how bout bottle-mail?
[11:46:33] <alex_joni> paul_c: stick it in a wine bottle
[11:46:34] <alex_joni> :D
[11:46:45] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, hello?
[11:46:55] <paul_c> a-l
[11:47:05] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: on phone...
[11:47:08] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[11:47:09] <A-L-P-H-A> sorry
[11:47:41] <A-L-P-H-A> that's damn reasonable for a DA300 3mm collet.
[11:47:51] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.hardingetooling.com/PartNumbers.asp?ID=1891
[11:49:16] <paul_c> �17-45 inclusive....
[11:49:27] <paul_c> checking for alts.
[11:49:43] <A-L-P-H-A> 17lbs = $40
[11:49:51] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm.
[11:51:48] <paul_c> OK... �8.15 for a 3mm collet
[11:51:58] <paul_c> �4.35 postage
[11:52:15] <paul_c> including VAT, �14.69
[11:52:40] <Phydbleep> Hmmm P-II 400 should be plenty of CPU in runlevel 3 if the display is on a different machine.
[11:52:48] <paul_c> If I order some stuff at the same time, shipping would be prorata
[11:53:03] <alex_joni> P2-400 should be enough even for RL5
[11:53:11] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, just checking with hardinge right now.
[11:53:13] <A-L-P-H-A> sec.
[11:53:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm so surprised that they are awake.
[11:53:23] <alex_joni> with display on the same machine
[11:53:36] <alex_joni> if you move the display somewhere else, you definately won't get RT
[11:53:39] <Phydbleep> I need to trim it to 1 mionitor for 2 machines.
[11:54:07] <paul_c> (depending on $<->� conversion rate), $17.78
[11:54:11] <Phydbleep> Or come up with sole flat panels.
[11:54:26] <Phydbleep> ???
[11:54:51] <Phydbleep> Aha!
[11:55:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep pulls the receiver for the wireless mouse/kb out from under the flyback in the monitor..
[11:56:16] <A-L-P-H-A> wtf? they won't give me a quote.
[11:56:26] <Phydbleep> I knew my spelling wasn't that bad..
[11:56:38] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, I'm interested.
[11:56:42] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, paypal?
[11:57:03] <paul_c> sorry... No.
[11:57:10] <paul_c> Don't do paypal
[11:57:26] <A-L-P-H-A> personal check? money?
[11:57:42] <paul_c> You going to the codeFest ?
[11:57:42] <A-L-P-H-A> a wire transfer would be stupid... as it costs $10-15 bucks for me to even send it.
[11:58:04] <A-L-P-H-A> no...
[11:59:11] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, can I mail you a $20CDN bill?
[11:59:26] <alex_joni> send US money at least ;)
[11:59:32] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... Lunies!
[11:59:33] <alex_joni> CDN is pretty useless :D
[12:00:44] <Phydbleep> ~ USD $21.
[12:48:37] <A-L-P-H-A> that was fun.
[12:48:41] <A-L-P-H-A> where's the convesation at now?
[12:50:32] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c. that J&L website is horrible. lots of pages don't work.
[13:09:09] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, do you think 1/8" (3.18mm) will hold a 3mm shaft dia endmill stable enough?
http://www.parlec.com/images/pdf/tol__2_angle.pdf this is telling me I can use a 1/8" as a 3mm collet. See page 5.
[13:10:00] <paul_c> Most DA300 collets have a closing range of 0.8mm
[13:10:18] <A-L-P-H-A> so my 1/8" collet would be good enough? :D
[13:10:19] <paul_c> so 3.15mm will colse down to 3.00mm
[13:10:42] <A-L-P-H-A> woohoo! I hope.
[13:10:55] <A-L-P-H-A> k, endmill time.
[13:11:17] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone want to do a group buy? www.cetdirect.com I get 20% off if I order over $200USD.
[13:12:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPandos SWP_Away? :D
[13:16:47] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, where did you know it's closing range is 0.8mm?
[13:25:11] <paul_c> looked it up in a catalogue
[13:25:29] <paul_c> spec says closing range is 1/32"
[13:26:37] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, oh. I never saw that anywhere. :) thanks.
[13:32:45] <paul_c> Hrmm... Parlec quote a 0.4mm closing range
[13:34:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm still withing 3mm.
[13:34:39] <A-L-P-H-A> 3.18mm = 1/8"
[13:34:43] <A-L-P-H-A> well within 3mm.
[13:35:11] <paul_c> yup.
[13:35:22] <A-L-P-H-A> NSK 1/2" ID bearing = $8.10. Chinese brand = $1.32 CDN. heh.
[13:35:35] <A-L-P-H-A> order 5 Chinese made = 1 Jap made.
[13:35:49] <A-L-P-H-A> both same ratings.
[13:39:09] <A-L-P-H-A> hey dmess
[13:39:26] <dmess> hows Alpha this am...
[13:39:32] <A-L-P-H-A> sleepy.
[13:39:36] <A-L-P-H-A> been up since 5pm.
[13:39:41] <A-L-P-H-A> PM.
[13:39:51] <dmess> hmm night shift...
[13:40:15] <A-L-P-H-A> if I worked. :) well... technically I did. but not for an employeer.
[13:40:23] <A-L-P-H-A> freelance programming.
[13:40:43] <dmess> i see... for whom then??
[13:42:04] <A-L-P-H-A> clients. Server administration content/database management systems for clients.
[13:42:14] <A-L-P-H-A> try and make stuff easy for them, so I do less work.
[13:42:17] <A-L-P-H-A> and charge more. :)
[13:43:06] <dmess> gottcha...i start at dowty tomorrow.. so im engoying my last days holidays
[13:44:05] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess what do you do?
[13:44:17] <dmess> mfg eng..
[13:44:35] <A-L-P-H-A> is shwa town?
[13:45:04] <dmess> shwa... is a town i guess...Dowty's in ajax
[13:45:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know what Dowty is.
[13:45:23] <A-L-P-H-A> where's that near?
[13:45:34] <A-L-P-H-A> SB Simpson/Olympia?
[13:45:47] <dmess> toronto... where are you located
[13:46:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Liverpool and Finch.
[13:46:20] <dmess> you know where olympia is in ajaj??
[13:46:29] <A-L-P-H-A> just north of Pickering Town centre.
[13:46:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I go to olympia to buy tooling sometimes.
[13:46:47] <dmess> ajax... its on the same street further south on the right
[13:47:29] <dmess> Messier-Dowty Aerospace
[13:47:33] <A-L-P-H-A> never ventured much further south... don't know what's down there... just industrial units, that could have been used for NICe residential units. :)
[13:47:49] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, what parts do you guys make?
[13:48:01] <dmess> landing gear...
[13:48:14] <A-L-P-H-A> reconditioning? or complete production?
[13:48:39] <dmess> both
[13:49:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder if your company was the one that "How It's Made" [tv show] filmed at. :)
[13:49:43] <dmess> i think it was i seen that one
[13:50:05] <dmess> http://www.messier-dowty.com/presentation/index.asp
[13:54:31] <A-L-P-H-A> well... lunch appointment, driving range with said appointment. Then off to BDI to pick up some bearings after 2pm. :D
[13:58:07] <A-L-P-H-A> this is so fucking crazy! I can see my van in google's satellite maps.
[13:59:43] <dmess> you can se your van???
[14:02:24] <A-L-P-H-A> that's on my driveway. it's a white spec. it's a few pixels big.
[14:02:32] <A-L-P-H-A> you can make out the plant island as wel.
[14:02:50] <A-L-P-H-A> that resolution is about 1m = 2pixels.
[14:03:42] <dmess> wow.. that's how they find 5 plants on my 10 acres up north..
[14:04:32] <dmess> which plant do you work out of??
[14:04:53] <A-L-P-H-A> plant = vegetation.
[14:05:28] <dmess> first one..
[14:06:45] <tonyp> Good morning folks, I am wondering if someone can help explain how I can get a faster rapid and feedrate with my system.
[14:06:53] <dmess> i have to get my p'work done this afternoon... set-up m-d as client and all..
[14:07:05] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[14:07:35] <SWPadnos> tonyp: what kind of speeds are you looking at
[14:07:36] <SWPadnos> ?
[14:07:42] <dmess> tony... direct drive leadscrew??
[14:07:48] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, dmess, guys wanna buy some endmills? if I make an order of $200USD I get 20% off. :D
[14:07:59] <dmess> geared?? belts??
[14:08:21] <tonyp> Right now my max rapid is 90 ipm which will get me a slower feed rate. I am hoping to get about 200 or so
[14:08:21] <SWPadnos> sure - get me some that I'd like, and let me know what you got :)
[14:08:38] <tonyp> Gelts
[14:08:40] <dmess> alpha... i'll get you that break with no min.
[14:08:42] <tonyp> belts
[14:09:09] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess? I'm looking for 1mm and 0.5mm endmills... what costs? got list?
[14:09:34] <dmess> call Duramill in Concord... talk to Randy .. tell him mess sent ya..
[14:09:37] <SWPadnos> what kind of motors and drives?
[14:09:49] <tonyp> 640oz stepper motors, Gecko drives, 1.8 gig processer, .2 lead screw running at 1 to 1.25
[14:09:52] <SWPadnos> Concord NH?
[14:10:00] <dmess> or stuff them thru Maverick's account there... save the taxes
[14:10:14] <dmess> 9056617809
[14:10:38] <SWPadnos> G201 or G210?
[14:11:04] <tonyp> g210
[14:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Duramill Industrial Supplies Ltd. 21 Bradwick Drive, Unit 2
[14:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Concord ON L4K 1K6
[14:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Tel: 905-738-8665
[14:11:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Fax: 905-738-4862
[14:11:13] <paul_c> tonyp: A couple of questions....
[14:11:19] <tonyp> go ahead
[14:11:24] <paul_c> What are your scales set to ?
[14:11:31] <paul_c> and also PERIOD ?
[14:11:38] <A-L-P-H-A> http://duramill.com/main.html checking
[14:11:54] <tonyp> The period is .00017 that is as low as I can go
[14:12:15] <dmess> thats them...
[14:12:35] <A-L-P-H-A> downloading their catologue now. :D
[14:12:48] <dmess> how accurate is your table resolution??
[14:12:50] <paul_c> OK.. And INPUT_SCALE is set to ?
[14:13:08] <paul_c> IOW how many steps per inch ?
[14:13:10] <tonyp> The scales are between 4 and 5000
[14:13:11] <SWPadnos> (and OUTPUT_SCALE)
[14:13:26] <tonyp> getting all of that right now
[14:15:48] <tonyp> We'll go with the highest the z axis is set to 1549
[14:16:05] <dmess> Alpha - what are you after i may have it in the basement toolbox here
[14:16:14] <tonyp> the y axis is set to 2539
[14:16:26] <tonyp> The x is set at1496
[14:16:52] <tonyp> period is .000017
[14:16:53] <paul_c> and you want 200ipm ?
[14:17:08] <tonyp> I need coffee
[14:17:18] <SWPadnos> Your machine needs coffee :)
[14:17:25] <tonyp> That too
[14:17:46] <tonyp> Coolant for wood. Didn't you know that?
[14:18:12] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, I'm down downloading and browsing it... they don't have tiny ones that I want... like 1mm and 0.5mm (1/8" or 3mm dia shafts)
[14:18:17] <tonyp> yes paul_c 200 would be good
[14:18:40] <SWPadnos> I think your OUTPUT_SCALE should be 12500
[14:18:53] <SWPadnos> (and input scale)
[14:19:11] <paul_c> 200ipm with 2539 steps/inch gives a max frequency of ~10KHz
[14:19:23] <SWPadnos> Depending on what you have the G210 pulse multiplier set to
[14:19:38] <paul_c> a PERIOD of 17 gives a max frequency of ~35KHz
[14:20:09] <tonyp> Then why the following errors
[14:20:09] <dmess> yes they do... call Randy ask about micro-end mills...emco or OSG i believe they can get
[14:20:46] <paul_c> Can you mail me the ini file ?
[14:20:55] <SWPadnos> do you get correct movements (ie, if you commmand a 1 inch movement, does the machine move 1 inch)?
[14:21:45] <dmess> my first question was hows the table res..
[14:22:12] <SWPadnos> steppers on 0.2 lead with 1.25 drive ratio - that gives you the table resolution
[14:22:56] <SWPadnos> (depending on the Gecko pulse multiplier)
[14:23:32] <dmess> if all work well now .. just want more speed... and table movement can bear it easiest way to go faster is to increase final drive ratio to 1.5
[14:24:07] <tonyp> Yes it will take a few minutes
[14:24:36] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, msg.
[14:25:03] <tonyp> I am also looking at cost. I just bought all the gears and belts and dont want to start changing them out right away
[14:25:53] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, 905-661-7809 is out of service.
[14:26:18] <dmess> try it at 416... toronto line
[14:26:30] <A-L-P-H-A> there's a toronto line?
[14:26:39] <dmess> yeah..
[14:26:46] <A-L-P-H-A> (416) 661-7809?
[14:27:08] <dmess> south of steeles there your TO.. north side of the street is Concord
[14:27:15] <dmess> yes..
[14:28:34] <A-L-P-H-A> on the phone now... on hold. :(
[14:28:40] <dmess> opps... call # from w/s
[14:29:11] <dmess> i just got a pungabi radio stn on that one..
[14:30:04] <dmess> ALPHA... i have a mitt load of those little ones around..
[14:30:30] <dmess> do you have the rpm for them??
[14:31:02] <A-L-P-H-A> rpm? the manufacturer from CETdirect.com is saying 11.5K rpm.
[14:31:15] <A-L-P-H-A> for 0.5 and 1mm dia endmills.
[14:32:28] <dmess> WITH TiAlCN toatings... i presume
[14:32:38] <dmess> coatings
[14:32:59] <dmess> cutting what material??
[14:33:28] <SWPadnos> 11.5k is in the range for cutting aluminum without coated mills
[14:33:38] <SWPadnos> (for the 1mm - double that for 0.5mm)
[14:33:52] <SWPadnos> it's only 115 SFM
[14:34:04] <dmess> right...
[14:34:49] <SWPadnos> the problem I'd see is getting acceptable feed and chipload at that speed
[14:35:25] <dmess> on the F-MACH id have put in about 30K to start with...and run feed at about 2M/min
[14:35:40] <A-L-P-H-A> dmess, well... they quoted me on ONE, for $31 something...
[14:35:46] <A-L-P-H-A> yikes.
[14:35:54] <A-L-P-H-A> well, the guys said they could do better.
[14:36:04] <A-L-P-H-A> but I don't know how they'd beat $5.25USD + shipping.
[14:36:21] <dmess> USD
[14:36:26] <dmess> CND
[14:36:26] <A-L-P-H-A> they want me to do a drawing and fax it to them.
[14:36:30] <A-L-P-H-A> 31CDN.
[14:36:47] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7506556031
[14:36:59] <dmess> i'll find ya 1 for 20 in the basement
[14:37:16] <A-L-P-H-A> $20CDN?
[14:37:28] <dmess> sure
[14:38:36] <dmess> sharp corners ro ballnose ok??
[14:38:44] <tonyp> paul_c I just sent the .ini file to you. I hope I had the right address. I had trouble before.
[14:38:48] <A-L-P-H-A> uh... I can get about $10 for 50USD + shipping. :P
[14:38:49] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[14:38:55] <A-L-P-H-A> looking for both
[14:39:24] <tonyp> What a pain. had to shut down and reboot in windows put it on the removable disc and switch to the computer I am using.
[14:39:25] <SWPadnos> They're $1389 and up at MSC (1mm ball end)
[14:39:31] <SWPadnos> sorry - $13.89
[14:39:38] <SWPadnos> (funny about decimals :) )
[14:39:38] <dmess> you buyinusd for .50 on the dollar??
[14:39:52] <SWPadnos> $0.80 these days
[14:41:54] <dmess> smoke break...brb
[14:42:24] <A-L-P-H-A> correction... 10units for ~$50USD.
[14:42:44] <A-L-P-H-A> 1USD = 1.23322CDN.
[14:43:08] <SWPadnos> I see 1.2216 right now
[14:44:58] <tonyp> paul_c had to resend to the correct address this time
[14:45:17] <paul_c> * paul_c hovers over the in box
[14:46:19] <tonyp> I use the address you sent the wiring diagram from
[14:47:28] <SWPadnos> hmmm - is there any reason not to use a left-hand cutting endmill?
[14:49:21] <dmess> no reason NOT to on a cnc...
[14:49:31] <SWPadnos> That's what I was thinknig
[14:49:57] <SWPadnos> same on a manual machine - the only requirement would be that you can run the spindle backwards
[14:50:59] <A-L-P-H-A> No one can beat CETs price. scary
[14:51:03] <tonyp> If you are running a cnc you will have to change your output on the cam
[14:51:04] <paul_c> tonyp: Got it... Rebooting another box with a different HDD in it..
[14:51:06] <dmess> and your relize you have l/h tool in... or it wont last long..
[14:51:53] <SWPadnos> heh - you certainly have to plan climb / normal milling differently, but that's easy (especially for me before I finish my motor mounts :) )
[14:51:58] <dmess> conventional mill profiles to get a climb mill attitude on the machine
[14:52:21] <dmess> no biggie..
[14:54:32] <dmess> aircraft industry uses alot of lefties... LARGE copy mills that make a right and left hand part from the same source
[14:55:04] <SWPadnos> OK - I've been seeing some on ebay, and I figured there was no major issue with them
[14:55:16] <SWPadnos> but thought it doesn't hurt to ask
[14:55:46] <dmess> EMC needs to impement some sort of miror axes switch like most modern cnc's
[14:56:27] <SWPadnos> jjust flip the sign of Y and X input/output sclaes :)
[14:56:42] <SWPadnos> (see - I had a mirror image spelling there)
[14:56:54] <dmess> i used to have a few leftie drills... hand that to an apprentice to sharpen and watch his face change....
[14:57:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:57:34] <dmess> there's no steel where it should be... ; )
[15:06:13] <paul_c> tonyp: Running....
[15:11:32] <dmess> Paul... can the .ini be written to and re-read without restarting emc
[15:13:46] <paul_c> nope
[15:15:22] <dmess> hmm thx
[15:15:42] <paul_c> Not yet, anyways
[15:16:35] <dmess> im just thinking of the easiest way to impement inhibit workzones...
[15:35:32] <paul_c> dmess: Easiest way - Limit switches.
[15:35:52] <paul_c> tonyp: modified & tested ini on it's way back.
[15:38:29] <paul_c> * paul_c wanders off to find food
[15:40:49] <tonyp> Tony got the ini file. Thanks paul_c. now all I need is a new Gecko to drive one of the motors.
[15:41:10] <tonyp> Seems I got a bad motor and it let all of the smoke out of the Gecko
[15:41:22] <SWPadnos> that is an issue with steppers
[15:44:31] <tonyp> What kind of issue are you talking about
[15:44:41] <SWPadnos> letting the smoke out of the driver
[15:44:51] <SWPadnos> It's much more common with steppers than with servos
[15:45:18] <tonyp> That seems to be depending on who you talk to.
[15:45:41] <tonyp> Everyone I talk to says the same except the guy I got the steppers from
[15:45:53] <SWPadnos> well - it's pretty normal for a stepper drive to smoke if the motor has a shorted winding, an open winding (or disconnectios), etc.
[15:46:17] <SWPadnos> You should wait for the Vampire drive before replacing your dead drive
[15:46:38] <tonyp> He is sending a new motor but that doesnt help with the $ for the drive
[15:46:47] <tonyp> What is the vampire
[15:46:59] <SWPadnos> That's the new Gecko stepper drive
[15:47:06] <SWPadnos> Vampire = unkillable
[15:47:25] <tonyp> I just talked to them and he didn't mention it
[15:47:35] <SWPadnos> Mariss has done evil things to the drive, and it refuses to die - also gives better performance than the G201/210
[15:47:46] <SWPadnos> It'll be ready sometime toward the end of the month, I think
[15:48:52] <tonyp> I'll have to have a look at them when they come out. Two of three of the drives I have were free so buying one to get going isn't that bad
[15:49:07] <SWPadnos> no - that's a good deal :)
[15:49:54] <tonyp> I am hoping to get running so I can make some money them I'll work on fixing things with top notch components.
[15:50:27] <SWPadnos> Interestingly, the G204V will only be around $10 more than the G210 (I think Mariss said $156 or something)
[15:53:35] <tonyp> Anyone using speed control for the spindle and what are they using? I want to build a spindle and don't know what to use to control the speed with
[15:55:14] <SWPadnos> The higher end seems to be a 3-phase motor with a VFD for speed control. Everything from a DC motor on up is possible though.
[15:56:03] <tonyp> Is there code for the speed control in EMC to control the VFD
[15:56:15] <SWPadnos> sort of
[15:56:36] <tonyp> huh?
[15:57:09] <SWPadnos> well - I'm saying that there is support, but you need hardware to get there
[15:57:20] <SWPadnos> like an analog output to the VFD
[15:57:43] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure what the exact mechanism is for speed output (Paul knows :) )
[15:58:23] <tonyp> paul_c knows everything. This is a ways off but I need to design something.
[15:58:32] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:04:53] <tonyp> can linux read the usb removable drives and how do you access them
[16:05:03] <tonyp> They are great for swapping files
[16:05:06] <SWPadnos> yes - modprobe usb_storage
[16:05:15] <SWPadnos> then mount /dev/sda1 /somewhere
[16:05:31] <SWPadnos> just be sure to unmountbefore physically removing the drive
[16:05:38] <SWPadnos> unmount before
[16:07:30] <tonyp> I did that and got permission denied and I'm in root. shouldn't be cause I dont know anything but I am in root
[16:07:46] <SWPadnos> permission denied on which command?
[16:09:56] <tonyp> like I said I dont know what I am doing. the drive is plugged in right now.
[16:10:05] <tonyp> what do I need to do to access it
[16:10:12] <SWPadnos> try lsmod | grep usb
[16:10:36] <SWPadnos> and see if usb_storage is loaded (it may possibly be usb-storage)
[16:10:49] <tonyp> ok it gave me a list
[16:11:05] <SWPadnos> OK - is wither usb_storage or usb-storage in the list?
[16:11:07] <SWPadnos> either
[16:11:34] <tonyp> yes usb-storage (unused)
[16:11:37] <SWPadnos> OK
[16:11:46] <SWPadnos> now do ls -d /dev/sda*
[16:12:17] <tonyp> list of devices
[16:12:20] <SWPadnos> OK
[16:12:25] <SWPadnos> type mount
[16:12:36] <tonyp> done
[16:12:40] <SWPadnos> and see if /dev/sda1 is listed anywhere
[16:13:03] <SWPadnos> the permission denied may have been because the module was already loaded
[16:13:33] <SWPadnos> you can do mount | grep sda
[16:14:16] <tonyp> I dont see /dev/sda1
[16:14:25] <tonyp> I will do the other
[16:14:46] <SWPadnos> OK - see what's in the /mnt directory (we may need to create a directory under which to mount the device)
[16:16:01] <tonyp> there is a "usbf s on /proc/bus/usb type usbf s (rw)
[16:16:05] <tonyp> is this it
[16:16:37] <SWPadnos> nope
[16:17:04] <SWPadnos> so - ls /mnt
[16:17:21] <SWPadnos> see if there's someplace to mount the drive
[16:17:32] <tonyp> all I have is a dos there
[16:17:53] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure I understand what you mean
[16:18:14] <tonyp> Running a dual boot laptop with a dos to swap files with
[16:18:19] <SWPadnos> OK
[16:18:26] <SWPadnos> mkdir /mnt/usbdrive
[16:18:58] <SWPadnos> (or /usbdrive, if you want it there - but people usually recommend keeping / clean)
[16:22:39] <tonyp> I got a cannot make directory
[16:22:39] <tonyp> ok I have the directory created
[16:22:39] <tonyp> now what
[16:22:52] <SWPadnos> mount /dev/sda1 /mnt/usbdrive
[16:23:48] <tonyp> cool I have it.
[16:24:04] <SWPadnos> excellent -just remember to umound /mnt/usbdrive before removing it
[16:24:05] <tonyp> how do I unmount it before pulling it out
[16:24:13] <SWPadnos> umount /mnt/usbdrive
[16:24:20] <SWPadnos> or umount /dev/sda1
[16:24:26] <robin_sz> meep!
[16:24:28] <tonyp> ok youre way ahead of me
[16:25:03] <dmess> right on... hey SWP.. if i plug in my usb @ power up will it probe and load the mod??
[16:25:36] <robin_sz> depends if you have hotplug support
[16:25:37] <SWPadnos> It should load the module when you plug in a device, or on bootup I imagine, but I think you need hotplug enabled for that
[16:25:43] <SWPadnos> (but don't quote me)
[16:25:47] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hi fives SWPadnos
[16:25:50] <dmess> it wasn't there when i installed the sytem
[16:25:56] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos Yeah
[16:26:04] <SWPadnos> doesn't matter about installation
[16:26:12] <SWPadnos> (unless you're using Gentoo :) )
[16:26:29] <dmess> im a newbie too and followed along.. i'll try it after
[16:26:44] <robin_sz> just tail -f /var/log/messages and plug/unplug the device and watch what goes on
[16:27:04] <tonyp> When I tyeped unmount /dev/sda1 unmount : I got command not found
[16:27:05] <dmess> debian ... stuff from the live bdi distro...installed
[16:27:18] <robin_sz> tonyp: umount not unmount
[16:27:37] <tonyp> I need to go to school to read
[16:27:48] <robin_sz> also ... top tip ...
[16:27:50] <SWPadnos> Don't worry - I need to go to school for typing
[16:27:55] <robin_sz> type umou
[16:27:59] <robin_sz> and then press tab
[16:28:00] <SWPadnos> <tab>
[16:28:02] <tonyp> much better
[16:28:07] <dmess> dmess has been readin' MAN pages in his sleep
[16:28:08] <robin_sz> it shoudl complete the word, or offer alternatives
[16:28:09] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos high fives robin_sz
[16:28:21] <robin_sz> * robin_sz Yo!
[16:29:14] <robin_sz> dmess: you know its bad, when your brain stores them in gzipped format ;)
[16:29:32] <dmess> .tar ...
[16:29:37] <SWPadnos> and you need caffeine to unzip :)
[16:29:41] <robin_sz> heh
[16:29:49] <dmess> and herbs
[16:29:55] <robin_sz> and .. the true test of a linux guru ...
[16:30:16] <dmess> not me ... yet
[16:30:16] <robin_sz> name the three lower case letters that are NOT vlaid arguments to the ls command
[16:30:25] <dmess> man
[16:30:44] <SWPadnos> that's a fallacy - there are no letters that aren't valid ls arguments ;)
[16:30:52] <tonyp> I think I got it now. seems to work great. now I dont have to go to window to get files back and forth
[16:31:38] <paul_c> ls -ejyz
[16:31:46] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:32:04] <robin_sz> oh foo. theres 4
[16:32:05] <SWPadnos> at least on the mac
[16:32:22] <dmess> should a newbie like me writ that down somewhere??
[16:32:22] <paul_c> man ls
[16:32:40] <SWPadnos> running windows at the moment - man ls doesn't help much :)
[16:33:21] <robin_sz> oh well, today was "fun"
[16:33:21] <paul_c> del c:*
[16:33:47] <robin_sz> paul_c: no no ... you need deltree
[16:33:58] <paul_c> format c:
[16:34:04] <dmess> would the remote ssh let me run a terminal of the linux box OFF of the 'Doze box??
[16:34:05] <SWPadnos> deltree c:\*.* /Y
[16:34:11] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:34:28] <robin_sz> ssh is your fiend
[16:34:33] <dmess> fdisk...
[16:34:36] <SWPadnos> in fact, you can install cygwin/X and get the graphical emc screens in Windows (I do that all the time)
[16:35:09] <dmess> 'belly 'beelly interesting... ; )===~~~~
[16:35:23] <paul_c> SWPadnos: There is a native W95/8 binary that allows you to run a remote GUI
[16:35:29] <SWPadnos> (It's a lot better on my triple 1280x1024 monitors, rather than the 800x600 LCD on the EMC computer )
[16:35:35] <SWPadnos> that's too easy :)
[16:35:51] <tonyp> What do I need to pick up to start to learn some of these commands and to start to code. I am interested in helping but am really stupid when it comes to this stuff
[16:35:57] <SWPadnos> I also wanted to be able to use my good keyboard / monitor / mouse setup when using other apps, like QT Designer and KDevelop
[16:36:01] <robin_sz> paul_c: windows has allowed you to run a remote GUI for years ... years and years
[16:36:22] <robin_sz> paul_c: it the preventing other people doing it that seems to be the sticking point ;)
[16:36:23] <paul_c> a remote EMC GUI
[16:36:34] <dmess> thats what i was thinkin too.... only 1 GOOD monitor in the house at a time... and right now its the wifes... go figure..
[16:36:53] <robin_sz> and you need less admin effort on windows than linux
[16:37:08] <SWPadnos> The only thing I haven't done is get a true remote X terminal login, complete with KDE desktop stuff
[16:37:43] <robin_sz> you just connect your windows box to the interent, and within minutes you'll have some little volunteer sysadmins logged in to help you :)
[16:37:49] <dmess> who would want a remot FROM 'Doze??
[16:37:56] <SWPadnos> Me
[16:38:02] <robin_sz> and me
[16:38:16] <SWPadnos> If for no other reason than to monitor the machine in the garage from my office
[16:38:20] <paul_c> dmess: Just the sad puppies.
[16:38:25] <SWPadnos> (especially in the winter)
[16:38:28] <robin_sz> its nice to be able to ssh to a real machine for a little sanity from time to time
[16:38:46] <SWPadnos> Someday (possibly this year), I will convert to Linux entirely, but I can't yet
[16:39:01] <robin_sz> I had converted to linux entirely ...
[16:39:05] <robin_sz> but had to go back
[16:39:20] <robin_sz> which was a fscking sad day I can tell you
[16:39:21] <SWPadnos> I have program dependencies that I haven't quite figured out yet
[16:39:39] <SWPadnos> I may just install vmware on Linux, and still run some of the Win apps that way
[16:39:52] <dmess> i have 3 kids and a wife on Doze... im full time on call sysadmin and h/w tech
[16:40:25] <robin_sz> 3d CAD and nesting are what I seem to end up on doze for ...
[16:40:35] <robin_sz> oh, and the rabbit C stuff
[16:41:01] <SWPadnos> yeah - and PCB cad and schematic capture and microcontroller / FPGA design tools and ...
[16:41:02] <dmess> i think i have 1 sone coming onboard... and my daughter likes the penguin but they are a long way from get-apt
[16:41:07] <tonyp> Weber has a 3d cad that is real good
[16:41:16] <robin_sz> well yes, Ive looked at it
[16:41:17] <SWPadnos> apt-get
[16:41:31] <SWPadnos> too bad you can't type get-apt to get apt-get
[16:41:42] <paul_c> tonyp: Synergy is on BDI-4.... All your fault..
[16:42:02] <tonyp> I heard. but I'll take the blame
[16:42:04] <paul_c> SWPadnos: dpkg -i apt
[16:42:08] <robin_sz> I did consider it for a plasma thing, but in the end, sheetcam got it. I must contact bob@weber, dang i forgot to. :(
[16:42:14] <dmess> no thats what i told them installed stuff... ; ) so they CANT
[16:42:28] <SWPadnos> Is Synergy parametric?
[16:42:46] <tonyp> I think it is
[16:42:48] <dmess> i have a Synergy d/l for redhat 9.0
[16:42:51] <robin_sz> I didn't look at that part, as I wass concentrating on the 2D stuff
[16:42:57] <SWPadnos> hmmm - I may haev to look at that again
[16:43:11] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: get Solidworks
[16:43:16] <tonyp> he's right over there at websys
[16:43:32] <SWPadnos> I have CadMax, which was $295, and works for me as well as SolidWorks
[16:43:43] <SWPadnos> (though I know others have had worse luck)
[16:43:43] <robin_sz> does it do sheet metal?
[16:43:51] <SWPadnos> Nope, but then neither do I :)
[16:43:58] <robin_sz> ahh.
[16:44:03] <SWPadnos> Actually, it might - I wasn't concerned about that
[16:44:13] <robin_sz> but its a full parametric 3d modeller?
[16:44:19] <SWPadnos> It does full solid modeling, and is parametric
[16:44:21] <dmess> i dont think so... you have 'doz2000 box avail
[16:44:45] <SWPadnos> I was able to construct a model of the Y-axis bearing bracket on my Bridgeport in several hours, while learning how to use the program
[16:44:53] <robin_sz> right
[16:45:03] <SWPadnos> It has the feature tree as well
[16:45:09] <robin_sz> right
[16:45:15] <robin_sz> thats the crucial thing ...
[16:45:20] <dmess> will it import Catia??
[16:45:42] <SWPadnos> In fact, it has a feature that SW is missing - you can get a table of variables in a sketch, and just edit them, like a spreadsheet
[16:45:47] <robin_sz> why would anyone want to go from catia to something else?
[16:45:52] <SWPadnos> I don't think so (Catia)
[16:46:00] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: you can do that in solidworks
[16:46:08] <SWPadnos> There's a $500 add-on that gives it full IGES support
[16:46:10] <dmess> I dont... ; )
[16:46:25] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: insert design_table
[16:46:37] <SWPadnos> Ah - I was showing it to a friend, and he said that feature was missing
[16:46:40] <robin_sz> inserts an excel spreadsheet to drive the sketch
[16:46:46] <robin_sz> also ...
[16:46:55] <SWPadnos> Ah - I didn't realize that the table was a driver
[16:46:55] <dmess> catia sketch mode...edit params..
[16:47:08] <SWPadnos> Of course, you have to have Excel for that
[16:47:11] <robin_sz> you get one row per dimension
[16:47:24] <SWPadnos> same deal here, it's just an internal editor
[16:47:28] <robin_sz> and one column per configuration
[16:47:48] <robin_sz> so you can make up and edit configurations as a easy as pie
[16:47:55] <SWPadnos> That's cool
[16:48:10] <SWPadnos> Not that I need that for making motor mounts and heatsinks :)
[16:48:16] <robin_sz> heh
[16:48:53] <robin_sz> we did s series of amplifier case as 1U, 2U, 3U etc as configurations
[16:49:22] <SWPadnos> I love the ability to just enter a parameter for "adjustment range" on my motor mount, and have the shaft and mounting holes become slots
[16:49:30] <robin_sz> yeah
[16:49:32] <robin_sz> thats kewl
[16:49:40] <robin_sz> bit trickier in soldworks
[16:49:45] <SWPadnos> You definitely have to think about constraints ahead oftime though
[16:50:10] <robin_sz> the "slots" as you call them are called "obrounds" in the sheet metal industry
[16:50:11] <dmess> there are fully parametric molds in my toolkit
[16:50:26] <SWPadnos> Yiou'd better clean that
[16:50:34] <SWPadnos> (you wouldn't want toe mold to spread)
[16:50:37] <SWPadnos> the
[16:50:46] <SWPadnos> or toe, come to think of it :)
[17:04:14] <kjensen> how long should rtai patch to kernel 2.4.27 take?
[17:05:26] <SWPadnos> not so long that you should be asking about it :) are you seeing anything on the terminal?
[17:05:58] <kjensen> no
[17:06:09] <kjensen> no error output or anything
[17:06:28] <SWPadnos> did you use the '<' on the command line?
[17:06:41] <kjensen> hrm... no
[17:06:44] <SWPadnos> (it may be awiting for you to type in the patch :) )
[17:06:46] <SWPadnos> awiting
[17:06:53] <kjensen> hah
[17:06:54] <SWPadnos> you need patch -p(whatever) < patchfile
[17:06:58] <kjensen> that would be why
[17:07:05] <SWPadnos> yep - done that myself a few times :)
[17:07:29] <SWPadnos> <CTRL-C> is your friend
[17:07:32] <kjensen> yes
[17:07:46] <kjensen> problem solved, thanks
[17:08:28] <Bowika> how can i run the emc2 with simulated driver?
[17:08:28] <tonyp> signing off. thanks for all your help.
[17:08:49] <dmess> robins are very friendly birds.... as long as you let them eat off you grass once in a while...
[17:13:34] <dmess> but i have a kamikazzi bird in the back yard... that wont let me near the fresh gardenin'... where the worms are
[17:23:49] <les> wild robin
[17:24:59] <dmess> Verry wild
[17:40:59] <Bowika> how can i run the emc2 with simulated driver?
[17:42:14] <cradek> instructions for that are on the wiki
[17:42:23] <cradek> oh
[17:42:32] <cradek> * cradek reads the screen more carefully
[17:42:36] <cradek> you can't, there isn't one.
[17:58:53] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[18:05:04] <dmess> brb...
[18:46:23] <joe2000chevy> hello
[18:58:46] <kjensen> *---------
[18:58:51] <kjensen> -+***************************************************************************************************+
[19:04:20] <joe2000chevy> ?
[19:05:34] <Jymmm> Afternoon Folks!
[19:05:49] <joe2000chevy> how ya doin?
[19:06:19] <Jymmm> Hangin in there (as usual) =)
[19:06:40] <joe2000chevy> hey here is my newer CNC machine i'm building.....
http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/cnc Let me know what ya think.
[19:07:14] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy: What a piece of shit! Should I look at the website now? =)
[19:07:52] <joe2000chevy> lol
[19:08:12] <Jymmm> 1/2" drillrod on the Y ?
[19:08:48] <joe2000chevy> no its the famous gas pipes, but i will change it to 3/4" tonight has a little flex to it
[19:09:16] <Jymmm> Cool. How did the adj blocks do in delrin (or overall) ?
[19:09:33] <joe2000chevy> UHMW
[19:09:38] <joe2000chevy> they work great
[19:09:43] <Jymmm> my bad... UHMW
[19:09:45] <joe2000chevy> very durable
[19:10:15] <Jymmm> What did you use to terminate the screwrod?
[19:10:21] <joe2000chevy> and remain tight turning it nomatter how many times i adjust them
[19:10:26] <SWPadnos> argh - edrawings is a stupid program
[19:10:38] <joe2000chevy> its a viewer thats all
[19:10:45] <joe2000chevy> not a program
[19:10:57] <joe2000chevy> edrawing is a saved format to view
[19:11:06] <SWPadnos> I know - but it's too stupid to look at the PPI of my screen, rather than the overall dimensions
[19:11:19] <joe2000chevy> PPI?
[19:11:40] <SWPadnos> I have 3 screens at 1280x1024 each, giving me a 3840x1024 desktop, and the drawings are squished into spaghetti western style
[19:11:43] <SWPadnos> Pixels Per Inch
[19:11:47] <joe2000chevy> the solid works viewer has a diminsion tool
[19:12:02] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands joe2000chevy the AUTOFOCUS botton the the camcorder =)
[19:12:25] <joe2000chevy> i shrunk the pictures to upload
[19:12:45] <joe2000chevy> if thats what you are talking about?
[19:12:56] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy nope, the video is blurry
[19:13:14] <joe2000chevy> oh.... lol
[19:13:21] <Jymmm> =)
[19:13:27] <Jymmm> bbiab.... foodage
[19:13:33] <joe2000chevy> yea its just from a camera with movie feature not a cam corder
[19:14:09] <SWPadnos> of course, the strange thing is that the perspective correction is in the wrong direction - hmmm
[19:14:17] <joe2000chevy> you can see the size of my newer machine to the one i just built a month ago
[19:18:23] <joe2000chevy> so whats goin on nowadays
[19:23:20] <joe2000chevy> ok everyone is quiet now........
[19:33:11] <Jymmm> not anymore =)
[19:33:46] <joe2000chevy> :)
[19:34:00] <Jymmm> Ah, ok on the focus thing.
[19:34:27] <Jymmm> I do have a camcorder, but I have to be slightly careful with the amount of footage I take
[19:34:39] <joe2000chevy> focus?
[19:34:52] <Jymmm> one 90 minute tape can turn into 24GB on the hdd
[19:35:24] <Jymmm> and tapes go from $6 - $18 each
[19:36:03] <Jymmm> the autofocus is great, the zoom is even better!!!
[19:36:23] <Jymmm> Hell I wish the lens on my still camera was that good!
[19:36:33] <Jymmm> and it's a 70-300mm lens
[19:37:18] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy: Ok, what is foamcows?
[19:37:44] <joe2000chevy> o i just hosted some pics for a guys projector he could not seem to post them.
[19:37:58] <Jymmm> ah, heh
[19:38:27] <joe2000chevy> the other one is a RPTV i'm working on also
[19:38:34] <Jymmm> RPTV ?
[19:38:46] <joe2000chevy> Rear Projection TV
[19:38:50] <Jymmm> ah
[19:39:12] <joe2000chevy> just need a good screen material now
[19:39:26] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy you have any close up pic of the Y bearing and mounts?
[19:39:39] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy projector screen material
[19:39:52] <Jymmm> on ebay by the rolls
[19:40:15] <SWPadnos> There was a company exhibiting an awesome screen at Photokina two years ago, but I can't find their name :(
[19:40:45] <joe2000chevy> not good ones.
[19:41:00] <SWPadnos> I think they were from California
[19:41:11] <SWPadnos> (which is to be expected)
[19:41:16] <Jymmm> in this pic, is the router cutting out the piece?
http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/CNC/Cutting_X_Axis1.JPG
[19:43:19] <joe2000chevy> yes
[19:43:54] <joe2000chevy> i needed two of them identical to hold the axis angle alumn
[19:44:48] <Jymmm> Ah, I know what plans your using now. I looked at that and something didn't seem quite right to me, but that could just be in my head too.
[19:45:04] <joe2000chevy> jgro
[19:45:09] <Jymmm> yeh
[19:45:11] <joe2000chevy> from cnc zone
[19:45:35] <joe2000chevy> I redrew everything. and revamped it larger.
[19:46:15] <joe2000chevy> changed a couple of things here and there
[19:46:19] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy how did you terminate the screw leads?
[19:46:42] <joe2000chevy> terminate?
[19:46:48] <Jymmm> bearings?
[19:46:52] <Jymmm> bushing?
[19:46:59] <joe2000chevy> in the new one?
[19:47:12] <Jymmm> whatever one I'm looking at
[19:47:35] <joe2000chevy> i will use a skate bearing with two nuts either side
[19:47:47] <joe2000chevy> you can see the bearing in the left side gantry
[19:48:01] <Jymmm> are you turning the screw rod down some ?
[19:48:22] <joe2000chevy> no 5/16"
[19:48:38] <Jymmm> then using shaft rings?
[19:48:53] <joe2000chevy> nope no need to
[19:50:02] <Jymmm> so, the only thing holding the screw rod is the coupler to the motor and the anti-backlash nut?
[19:50:13] <joe2000chevy> I think i will redo the bearing block and make it fit just under the size of the outer ring of bearing to pressfit the bearing
[19:50:40] <joe2000chevy> no the two nuts on bothsides of end bearing will hold it from left to right movement also
[19:51:11] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy: I can't percive what your saying. When you get more pic, Please let me know.
[19:51:51] <Jymmm> How rigid is the gantry?
[19:51:58] <Jymmm> unmounted
[19:52:06] <joe2000chevy> real stiff
[19:52:13] <joe2000chevy> i was very surprised
[19:52:17] <Jymmm> no flex in it at all?
[19:52:29] <Jymmm> any direction
[19:53:21] <joe2000chevy> the back suport a little but does not affect the axis, and i still need a bottom front plate on it to stop any flex thatso ever
[19:55:16] <robin_sz> CAUTION: automatic sytems have detected the following words in your converstation : 'shaft','rings','screw','rod','stiff','nuts','bottom','rigid' ... monitoring is now set to active.
[19:55:23] <joe2000chevy> Any machine you make out of wood will have some degree of flex, but this one will have very min. and i will not be able to see it in anything i cut, ie wood, platics
[19:55:34] <joe2000chevy> lol
[19:55:39] <Jymmm> lol @ robin_sz
[19:55:59] <SWPadnos> you forgot "wood" and "whatsoever" :)
[19:56:10] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy : It wasn't that as much as I want to have 6" trvale in the Z axis.
[19:56:19] <Jymmm> travel
[19:56:41] <Jymmm> robin_sz you have a rigid bottom!
[19:56:50] <joe2000chevy> for 6" travel i would look towards an alumn. structure.
[19:57:25] <joe2000chevy> this one will have 3 1/2" to 4" i believe, depending on my decking
[19:58:02] <joe2000chevy> i'm also thinking of a way to attach an "A" axis as an addon when needed.
[19:58:28] <joe2000chevy> well more like a lathe
[19:58:54] <Jymmm> ah, or a vertically mounted rotary table?
[19:59:19] <Jymmm> like a vertically mounted rotary table?
[19:59:20] <joe2000chevy> possible
[19:59:55] <joe2000chevy> would be an interesting tackel
[20:03:26] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy have you found the adj blocks useful/necessary?
[20:09:35] <joe2000chevy> very useful
[20:10:31] <joe2000chevy> necessary, if you want a percise machine yes, you you are cutting just shapes and maybe just 3d pics then not a necess.
[20:11:19] <joe2000chevy> also allows for tweeking after machine has been in use a while
[20:11:58] <Jymmm> k
[20:12:10] <Jymmm> because of MDF?
[20:12:15] <joe2000chevy> yes
[20:12:30] <Jymmm> not necessary for aluminum
[20:12:48] <joe2000chevy> depends on construction techniques
[20:13:04] <Jymmm> hammer and chainsaw =)
[20:13:08] <joe2000chevy> alum will flex bend and wear also
[20:13:33] <joe2000chevy> rollers or leniar bearing wear, and so on
[20:14:17] <Jymmm> in this pic, it looks like you have an aluminum gantry in the bkgnd
http://www.lumenlab.com/~joe2000chevy/CNC/Gantry_Compare.JPG
[20:22:19] <joe2000chevy> its painted wood :)
[20:22:26] <joe2000chevy> hammered paint.
[20:39:12] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[20:40:42] <robin_sz> so ...
[20:40:59] <robin_sz> here I am wondering what its all about ...
[20:44:26] <Jymmm> robin_sz what the heck are you talking about?!?!?!
[20:44:33] <robin_sz> eck knows
[20:45:15] <robin_sz> sigh .. so just what progress has been made in the last year?
[20:46:25] <robin_sz> I suppise EMC2 has moved forward a air bit ..
[20:46:38] <robin_sz> but there still seems a long way to go to acheive the original ideals
[20:47:58] <Phydbleep> Anyone here in the US and set up to mill steel?
[20:48:09] <robin_sz> yeah
[20:48:15] <robin_sz> loads o people
[20:48:36] <Jymmm> Any comments?
http://www.pilotltd.net/images/motherboard.gif
[20:50:23] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Limit is e-stop?
[20:50:44] <joe2000chevy> no EMC2 yet??
[20:50:58] <Jymmm> Phydbleep hmmm?
[20:52:23] <robin_sz> "going off the rails on a crazy train"
[20:52:38] <Phydbleep> I see 4 "home" switches and a "limit" where i would have "fault" or "Emergency stop (e-stop)"
[20:53:17] <Jymmm> Phydbleep: 1) Not my design. 2) I feel that E as in EMERGENCY stop should NOT be computer controlled.
[20:53:39] <robin_sz> and it seems to have external 0v and internal 0v the same
[20:53:41] <joe2000chevy> Pull the Plug from wall
[20:53:48] <joe2000chevy> lol
[20:53:52] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy that does't discharge caps
[20:54:29] <joe2000chevy> mine don't have any or big ewnought to keep going
[20:54:29] <robin_sz> and estop via the computer is not legal anyway
[20:55:03] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Looks good other than I would invert the limit signal.. Normally closed switch instead of normally open.
[20:56:04] <Jymmm> I like that it also has 3 relay interfaces too
[20:56:25] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: I was going to tie mine both ways.. Manual button tied to a relay set to powerdown/brake spindle.
[20:57:31] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: the legal requirement is to disbale the drives, without going through the computer .. you can infomr the computer as a courtesey, but ti has to go direct to the drives too
[20:58:02] <robin_sz> oh fsck .. my wife is listeneing to the "spice girls" .. ick
[20:58:09] <Jymmm> robin_sz lol
[20:58:27] <Jymmm> robin_sz put on some metallica
[20:58:33] <robin_sz> perhaps she'll turn into baby spice
[20:58:49] <Jymmm> robin_sz only in your wet dreams =)
[20:58:51] <Phydbleep> 3 SPDT relays give spindle direction and braking control they way I'm doing it.. The comp can trip it or the operator can. If the comp loses power it scrams the system.
[20:58:59] <robin_sz> Jymmm: she was playing metallica last night :)
[20:59:59] <Jymmm> there ya go
[21:00:05] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Want some Voltaire to retaliate?
[21:00:23] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a copy of Brains somewhere.
[21:00:36] <Jymmm> correct me if I'm wrong, but that schematic doesn't have anything on it to DRIVE the motors, correct?
[21:02:05] <Jymmm> ah, here we go.... 4A @ 48V
http://www.pilotltd.net/images/L6203.gif
[21:03:17] <joe2000chevy> who here is commercial, or hobby CNC?
[21:03:30] <robin_sz> commercial
[21:03:30] <joe2000chevy> just curious
[21:03:55] <Jymmm> * Jymmm in process of doing both =)
[21:03:58] <joe2000chevy> work for / run / own? :)
[21:04:04] <robin_sz> own
[21:04:07] <joe2000chevy> <---- Hobby
[21:04:09] <Phydbleep> Hobby, Semi-commercial.. R&D here
[21:04:18] <joe2000chevy> thats why i'm building my second one now
[21:04:37] <robin_sz> why?
[21:04:45] <joe2000chevy> larger and better
[21:04:52] <robin_sz> right
[21:05:24] <Phydbleep> My next on will be smaller and lighter.. This 11x60 South-Bend is a beast..
[21:05:36] <joe2000chevy> I was running my present one at 60ipm last night cutting MDF
[21:06:36] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep had to get an engine hoist just to get it off the floor and onto the stand.
[21:07:18] <robin_sz> 11" isnt that big .. 60" sounds big though
[21:07:46] <robin_sz> thats the actual size of the workpiece, chuck to tailstock?
[21:08:26] <robin_sz> 60" is ... 5' ...
[21:09:08] <Phydbleep> 52"? 54"? ... It's frikken huge..
[21:09:13] <robin_sz> 5' from the front of the chuck to the tailstock would be a big lathe ...
[21:09:23] <robin_sz> so what does the 60 measure?
[21:10:15] <Phydbleep> The table is 7 feet long and weighs 750 pounds.. The lathe covers the front edge of it and weighs 720..
[21:10:24] <robin_sz> coo
[21:10:27] <robin_sz> big enough
[21:10:34] <robin_sz> and you are going to cnc it?
[21:11:24] <Phydbleep> Too big for most of what I need to do.. I want to use emc for readout and some basic control...
[21:11:36] <robin_sz> right
[21:11:56] <robin_sz> probably the best choice
[21:12:22] <robin_sz> Mach2/3 has full threading support and a variety of lath friendly features ...
[21:12:31] <robin_sz> but i dont trust it anymore
[21:13:10] <Jymmm> robin_sz how come?
[21:13:12] <robin_sz> I think Id rather have the lack of features and the security of knowing it would mostly do the right thing
[21:13:24] <Phydbleep> I pulled the 1.5HP 220V reversible motor and replaced it with a .75HP PMDC. Which is still bigger than the .5HP it shipped with in '37. :)
[21:14:02] <robin_sz> Jymmm: try it and find out ;)
[21:14:41] <robin_sz> probably OK on a little hobby router, but on a lathe it would be scary ...
[21:15:19] <joe2000chevy> mach 2/3 works good for me.
[21:15:23] <robin_sz> some people are high-speed threading with it ... just stand clear when the tool finds the chuck :)
[21:15:48] <robin_sz> joe2000chevy: for a little hobby router its fine ..
[21:16:06] <Phydbleep> That's what limit switches and e-stop/brake are for. :)
[21:16:15] <robin_sz> for serious machining it has "issues"
[21:16:23] <joe2000chevy> yes, worked better than emc for me at this time
[21:16:30] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:16:33] <joe2000chevy> but i dont know emc also
[21:16:55] <robin_sz> emc is harder work to get going and not as feature rich, but way more stable
[21:17:17] <joe2000chevy> i don't do long runs so it works out
[21:17:30] <robin_sz> mach2 .. well, personally, I think round holes not being round is a problem ...
[21:18:09] <joe2000chevy> hmmm mine wored out round, but i do the g-gode
[21:18:16] <robin_sz> no, they havent
[21:18:47] <robin_sz> on a little hobby router maybe you dont notice
[21:18:55] <joe2000chevy> true
[21:19:10] <robin_sz> some of the milling guys were seeing .005" of oval
[21:19:32] <robin_sz> on my plasmas it was closer to 5mm
[21:19:44] <joe2000chevy> well you have the remember you are using a 150 dollar program
[21:19:48] <Phydbleep> Ow.. That's an error..
[21:20:08] <robin_sz> well yeah .. but emc is a zero dollar progrma and at least does round holes
[21:20:24] <joe2000chevy> but more people develope EMC
[21:20:31] <robin_sz> true
[21:20:36] <Phydbleep> I got a lathe because I wanted round holes..
[21:20:38] <robin_sz> the power pf open source
[21:20:44] <joe2000chevy> more input means beter product
[21:20:48] <joe2000chevy> yup
[21:20:53] <robin_sz> mostly :)
[21:21:07] <joe2000chevy> I wish it was just a little more user friendly
[21:21:16] <robin_sz> well, yeah.
[21:21:19] <joe2000chevy> and a better backplot :)
[21:21:27] <robin_sz> and easier to customise ...
[21:21:39] <joe2000chevy> i like seeing the whole plot upfront and seeing it cut
[21:21:57] <robin_sz> if I could have the customiseablity of mach2 and the stability of emc ...
[21:22:03] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: Axis
[21:22:04] <joe2000chevy> But in all its a good program
[21:22:06] <robin_sz> well .. that woudl be grand
[21:22:09] <Phydbleep> That's another reason i want emc.. Line-boring is.. well, BORING! .. emc means I can set it and forget it. :)
[21:22:11] <joe2000chevy> i have not tried axis
[21:22:37] <paul_c> robin_sz: Get off your .... and code your VB replacement.
[21:22:48] <robin_sz> vb? ick no.
[21:24:37] <Jymmm> * Jymmm slaps paul_c for even thinking such evilness!
[21:25:00] <paul_c> The Gnome project has a VB replacement...
[21:25:11] <robin_sz> which is?
[21:25:12] <Jymmm> Only one thing worse than XML, that's VB
[21:26:59] <Phydbleep> Ick.. Venereal Basic.. Quick get some penicilllin and no coding for you for at least 6 weeks...
[21:27:36] <robin_sz> perhaps I should finish the tkemc replacement I started
[21:27:55] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Does it have a tach?
[21:28:26] <robin_sz> not yet
[21:28:32] <Bowika> Is there any CAD software in which i can generate the g codes of the project?
[21:28:45] <robin_sz> it looks just like the current tkemc
[21:28:49] <Bowika> or any converter from dxf to g codes?
[21:28:52] <robin_sz> except the code is MUCH cleaner
[21:29:03] <Phydbleep> Eagle will do 2d + drilling.
[21:29:03] <robin_sz> Bowika: for 2d or 3d?
[21:29:07] <joe2000chevy> there are many dxf to g-code
[21:29:38] <Bowika> 2d and 3d too
[21:29:45] <paul_c> Bowika: QCam or Synergy
[21:29:59] <robin_sz> well, for 2d try sheetcam
[21:30:05] <robin_sz> www.sheetcam.com
[21:32:17] <robin_sz> ah well ... so long, and thanks for all the fish.
[21:37:07] <paul_c> gambas
[21:37:15] <Jymmm> ?
[21:37:53] <paul_c> Gambas is a free development environment based on a Basic interpreter
[21:37:53] <paul_c> with object extensions, like Visual Basic(tm) (but it is NOT a clone!).
[21:37:53] <paul_c> With Gambas, you can quickly design your program GUI, access MySQL or
[21:37:54] <paul_c> PostgreSQL databases, pilot KDE applications with DCOP, translate your
[21:37:54] <paul_c> program into many languages, and so on..
[21:38:17] <Jymmm> platform dependant?
[21:38:41] <joe2000chevy> I need a simple, user friendly program
[21:38:41] <paul_c> If it runs Linux, it will run gambas
[21:39:01] <joe2000chevy> Me like many others know nothing about linux
[21:39:33] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: "Hello world" is about as simple as you can get....
[21:39:39] <Jymmm> I've been thinking about using flash for a gui enviroment (somehow), but need to be able to breka out of the sandbox.
[21:39:50] <paul_c> Now what do you want to do ??
[21:40:04] <joe2000chevy> what is Hello World?
[21:40:09] <Jymmm> Eh, just a GUI shell scripting language
[21:40:38] <paul_c> Pyrhon or tcl/tk
[21:40:54] <Jymmm> self contained, like old exe files
[21:41:07] <Jymmm> no dependancys (so to speak)
[21:41:24] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: In C.... main(){printf("Hello world\n");}
[21:41:38] <Jymmm> <include stdio.h>
[21:41:44] <Jymmm> #
[21:42:02] <joe2000chevy> ok that is grak to me paul :)
[21:42:05] <joe2000chevy> greak
[21:42:10] <Jymmm> Greek
[21:42:17] <joe2000chevy> that2
[21:42:25] <paul_c> In bash... echo "Hello World"
[21:42:35] <joe2000chevy> hello world
[21:42:40] <joe2000chevy> nope nothing happen
[21:42:52] <Jymmm> My ignorance has found that any GUI programming, the gui part requires almost 3x more coding tha tthe logic itself.
[21:43:04] <joe2000chevy> ask me anything in windows and i can do it but linux no
[21:43:56] <Jymmm> joe2000chevy Ok.... How do you remove entries fro the registry utilizing a script?
[21:43:58] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: Close the back doors & security holes in Windows,
[21:45:08] <paul_c> To be honest, If you can cope with a command line prompt in Doze, Linux isn't that hard.
[21:45:44] <Jymmm> paul_c: It's not that, as much as maybe wanting to view an image as B&W for example.
[21:46:10] <joe2000chevy> well i have not used linux other than loading it, running programs, and edit an ini file.
[21:46:44] <paul_c> now... Do you want to use a GUI tool or a CLI for the image ?
[21:46:45] <joe2000chevy> the BDI i could not even get it networked
[21:46:54] <Jymmm> paul_c gui
[21:46:59] <paul_c> Gimp
[21:47:03] <Jymmm> gui interface to a cli is fine too
[21:47:14] <Jymmm> IM
[21:47:34] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: Try the BDI-4
[21:47:59] <Jymmm> paul_c For a LONG time I've wanted to write a email client, but w/o knowing a GUI enviroment to devlop in, I'm SOL
[21:48:21] <Jymmm> paul_c: By long time, I mean 5-8 years.
[21:48:22] <paul_c> here, have a copy of Qt
[21:48:54] <joe2000chevy> i used 4.18
[21:49:04] <Jymmm> paul_c But see, in C++ the GUI code is almost 3x the lines as the logic itself. To me, that just doens't seem right.
[21:49:33] <joe2000chevy> also 4.20 i think was the latest i tried
[21:50:01] <paul_c> joe2000chevy: You using DHCP or static IP ?
[21:50:39] <joe2000chevy> address asigned through router
[21:50:46] <joe2000chevy> dhcp from cable
[21:51:29] <paul_c> If you went with the default n/w setting during the install, DHCP should work.
[21:51:49] <joe2000chevy> i did all defaults
[21:52:07] <paul_c> If you are booting the computer then plugging in to the n/w
[21:52:20] <paul_c> You need to do an ifdown/ifup cycle.
[21:52:21] <joe2000chevy> but now i need to install wireless linksys, i have since pulled the wires from that machine
[21:52:42] <joe2000chevy> ifdown/ifup?
[21:52:48] <paul_c> wireless is untested..
[21:53:05] <paul_c> ifdown eth0
[21:53:12] <paul_c> takes the network down
[21:53:18] <paul_c> ifup eth0
[21:53:26] <paul_c> brings it back up.
[21:53:52] <joe2000chevy> i like making g-code on my laptop then just copy to a directory on the network, then remote access the cnc computer and load the program
[21:54:56] <paul_c> as long as the n/w is working, nfs or samba will do that.
[21:55:37] <joe2000chevy> i tried the sharing on it and it told me it was not installed, don't know why samba was in the defaults
[21:58:48] <joe2000chevy> o wow its after 5:00pm, time to go home... I have worked enought today.... lol
[22:01:13] <Jymmm> paul_c Please understand that I can get away with CLI c, but gui just throws me a loop when I tried to get my feet wet.
[22:06:12] <paul_c> Been working on a Qt GUI for an app here...
[22:06:55] <paul_c> Yes, the bulk of the code I've been writing is declaring the widgets and packing them....
[22:07:28] <paul_c> Only a few calls to the API to get the data for the display.
[22:07:41] <Jymmm> see, that just seems wrong to me.
[22:07:44] <paul_c> But that is the nature of GUI programming.
[22:08:05] <paul_c> It is only a frontend to an app.
[22:08:33] <Jymmm> Flash has everything already built into it... browser, sound/video players, PS/PDF viewers, animation, etc.
[22:08:53] <Jymmm> So let it do the gui, and I just do the logic
[22:09:39] <Jymmm> if they just expanded it so it can run outside the sandbox, that would be cool.
[22:11:47] <paul_c> Isn't flash a tool for delivering web based "content" ?
[22:16:21] <Jymmm> paul_c It can do MUCh more than that. one example; it can be used as a web browser.
[22:16:37] <Jymmm> or more so, you can create a web browser in flash
[22:17:51] <Jymmm> I do a few PDF2Flash, no need for Acrobat plugin to be installed, all fully self contained
[22:17:59] <Jymmm> and MUCH fster too
[22:18:32] <Jymmm> same goes with PS2Flash
[22:19:17] <Jymmm> It does run in a "security sandbox" so one can't write "flash viruses" though.
[23:51:05] <Jymmm> les!
[23:51:28] <pfred1> Jymmm is les more?
[23:51:40] <Jymmm> pfred1 more or less
[23:51:43] <SWPadnos> Les is Moire
[23:51:58] <pfred1> a funny pattern indeed!
[23:52:19] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[23:52:19] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[23:52:43] <pfred1> I used to think Red was funny now i'm turning into him
[23:53:24] <Jymmm> pfred1 Yep =)
[23:53:49] <pfred1> the world keeps changing and i liked it better the way it was
[23:53:56] <Jymmm> ditto
[23:54:15] <pfred1> Jymmm hey yo uwere the one with the ballscrews turning down right?
[23:54:28] <pfred1> or the acme thread maybe?
[23:54:33] <pfred1> leadscrews at anyrate
[23:54:48] <Jymmm> pfred1 that was me
[23:55:01] <pfred1> yeah you ever try grinding anything?
[23:55:18] <pfred1> I just remembered because i was doing a little amateur grinding over the weekend
[23:55:28] <Jymmm> pfred1 Not yet, how did it turn out?
[23:55:34] <pfred1> my grinding?
[23:55:45] <Jymmm> no my pregnancy!
[23:55:48] <pfred1> well i used a different technique but it came out well
[23:55:55] <pfred1> I got a pic someplace of it
[23:55:56] <Jymmm> yes your grinding you ninny =)
[23:56:25] <Jymmm> pics are good stuff!
[23:56:35] <pfred1> I made a live center for my homemade lathe
http://69.249.77.18:10000/new/Multimedia/PicsITook/Delaware/10th/p4110010.jpg
[23:56:37] <Jymmm> * Jymmm needs to find water
[23:56:44] <pfred1> it seems pointy
[23:57:12] <Jymmm> thats the grinding you did?
[23:57:15] <pfred1> tho i still need to work on my homemade lathe dogs
[23:57:22] <pfred1> yeah held a stone on it
[23:57:33] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[23:57:59] <pfred1> I'll have to do a little centerless grinding
[23:58:27] <pfred1> Jymmm know what i did with all thread rod once that I thought was pretty neat?
[23:58:44] <Jymmm> build a race car?
[23:58:58] <pfred1> Jymmm I polished it with valve grinding compound and a piece of string
[23:59:12] <pfred1> all thread is pretty rough stuff when you buy it
[23:59:19] <Jymmm> oh yeah
[23:59:46] <Jymmm> the string didnt break?
[23:59:52] <pfred1> but with the string and valve grinding compound and it chucked into a drill it came up nice
