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[09:57:18] <alex_joni> yo paul_c
[09:57:32] <anonimasu> alex_joni: hey what's up?
[09:57:49] <paul_c> Morning Alex
[09:57:57] <alex_joni> I'm freaking pissed
[09:58:07] <alex_joni> on a ethernet connection
[09:58:10] <alex_joni> darn cable
[09:58:17] <alex_joni> got 10-40% loss on it
[09:58:19] <anonimasu> :/
[09:58:25] <anonimasu> bad hub/switch?
[09:58:35] <alex_joni> nah.. bad cable
[09:58:41] <alex_joni> I changed the switch
[09:58:44] <anonimasu> ah ok
[09:58:50] <alex_joni> changed the other parts receiver
[09:59:33] <alex_joni> I'll change it with an STP
[10:09:54] <anonimasu> ok I am working on my code still
[10:10:03] <anonimasu> :)
[10:10:08] <alex_joni> nice
[10:12:20] <anonimasu> it's going way too slow :/
[10:37:12] <alex_joni> an0n: you did some php.. right?
[10:59:35] <anonimasu> yes
[10:59:55] <alex_joni> never mind.. found it
[11:00:04] <anonimasu> ok
[11:00:05] <anonimasu> :)
[11:00:08] <alex_joni> was trying to access a variable from php ($var)
[11:00:18] <alex_joni> but it seems on newer php's that doesn't work anymore
[11:00:25] <alex_joni> you need $_GET['var']
[11:00:54] <anonimasu> ah yeah
[11:01:05] <anonimasu> they deprecated it at version 3.somthing
[11:01:06] <alex_joni> is there a way to turn this off?
[11:01:16] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:01:21] <anonimasu> you can enable globals in the config
[11:01:21] <robin_z> umm!
[11:01:25] <anonimasu> but that's a bad way
[11:01:27] <alex_joni> meep?
[11:01:27] <robin_z> ffs dont do that
[11:01:46] <alex_joni> how come?
[11:01:46] <anonimasu> robin_z: he asked if it was possible not if it was any good ;)
[11:01:50] <robin_z> its a HUGE security hole
[11:01:54] <robin_z> true
[11:01:54] <alex_joni> right
[11:01:54] <anonimasu> yep
[11:01:59] <anonimasu> very very insecure
[11:02:04] <robin_z> whatever, just dont do it.
[11:02:05] <alex_joni> ok. I'll update the pages :)
[11:02:08] <alex_joni> lol
[11:02:26] <robin_z> alex_joni: do you know the names of your vars?
[11:02:35] <anonimasu> $var=$_GET[thing];
[11:02:36] <alex_joni> yes
[11:02:40] <anonimasu> ''
[11:02:57] <anonimasu> just do it before you use them and it should work out fine
[11:03:12] <alex_joni> right
[11:03:22] <alex_joni> $thing=$_GET['thing']
[11:03:33] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:03:38] <robin_z> perl -pi -e"s/\$var/\$_GET['var']/g" *.php
[11:04:41] <alex_joni> yeah that too.. but there aren't that many
[11:04:45] <robin_z> or do what anonimasu said and explicitly import them
[11:04:59] <alex_joni> so adding that stuff ontop would be ok
[11:05:04] <robin_z> yeah
[11:05:09] <alex_joni> errr. at the beginning of the page
[11:05:24] <robin_z> you can easily imagine the security risk im sure.
[11:05:30] <alex_joni> yup
[11:05:35] <alex_joni> I was wondering
[11:05:41] <alex_joni> how big is 21U ?
[11:05:43] <robin_z> 3.5"
[11:05:43] <anonimasu> um
[11:05:48] <robin_z> oh 21
[11:05:54] <anonimasu> 21*19"
[11:05:55] <robin_z> 21 x 1.75"
[11:05:56] <anonimasu> err
[11:05:59] <anonimasu> 1.75
[11:06:00] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:06:02] <alex_joni> right
[11:06:26] <alex_joni> about a meter
[11:06:31] <alex_joni> 93 cm
[11:06:46] <robin_z> you'd be amzed how many PHP scripts cough up "interesting" data with blah.php?debug=1 ;)
[11:06:47] <alex_joni> 21 * 1,75 * 2,54 .. right?
[11:06:56] <alex_joni> lol
[11:06:57] <robin_z> yep
[11:06:58] <anonimasu> robin_z: mine does ;)
[11:07:59] <alex_joni> I think 21U should be enough for 2 PC's, one KVM, one Monitor & Keyb, one switch, maybe some telephone switch (1U)
[11:08:18] <anonimasu> 2yeah
[11:08:24] <robin_z> oh, half a rack :)
[11:08:33] <alex_joni> yeah
[11:08:39] <robin_z> in a colo?
[11:08:41] <alex_joni> a full size rack would be overkill
[11:08:44] <alex_joni> colo?
[11:08:53] <robin_z> colocation facility .. data centre
[11:09:02] <alex_joni> nah.. next to my desk
[11:09:06] <robin_z> right
[11:09:24] <alex_joni> probably won't fit under the desk :D
[11:09:36] <anonimasu> 21u is large
[11:09:44] <robin_z> yeah
[11:09:53] <alex_joni> I need to have some spare space
[11:10:06] <alex_joni> and I don't have 19'' rackmountable cases for the pc's
[11:10:22] <robin_z> I just stick the machines "somewhere else" and use a laptop on the desk
[11:10:28] <robin_z> ssh is my friend
[11:10:33] <alex_joni> mine too :D
[11:10:47] <alex_joni> my main server doesn't even have a VGA card :D
[11:10:54] <robin_z> heh
[11:11:12] <alex_joni> actually now it has (I had to stick a few more HDD inside)
[11:11:18] <robin_z> its sort of useful... for the odd log in an find out whats broken sort of thing
[11:11:18] <alex_joni> needed a card to get to BIOS ;)
[11:11:49] <robin_z> this is what I find weird about 'doze
[11:12:03] <robin_z> linux boxen have ususally no X installed on servers
[11:12:12] <alex_joni> heh.. no /var/log/messages ?
[11:12:17] <robin_z> Doze still has all that grapicla shit
[11:12:39] <alex_joni> yeah
[11:12:43] <robin_z> no /var/log/messages??
[11:12:52] <alex_joni> on doze ;)
[11:12:52] <robin_z> heh
[11:12:52] <alex_joni> I miss that
[11:13:02] <alex_joni> and the crappy logs windoze has just annoy me
[11:13:24] <robin_z> some things need the console still
[11:13:35] <robin_z> like kernel panics :)
[11:13:49] <robin_z> and cards dropping into promiscuous mode always flag on the console
[11:14:50] <alex_joni> yeah
[11:15:14] <robin_z> if youve been hacked, thats usually the first warning
[11:15:22] <anonimasu> yep
[11:15:30] <robin_z> that or tripwire getting excited
[11:15:47] <alex_joni> tripwire?
[11:16:03] <anonimasu> signs binaries and stuff..
[11:16:08] <robin_z> sorta
[11:16:20] <robin_z> more to the point it watches certain directories
[11:16:38] <robin_z> if stuff happens you didnt expect it "does stuff"
[11:16:59] <robin_z> ranging from mailing you, to dropping the shutters on the firewall
[11:18:02] <alex_joni> how about unplugging eth?
[11:18:03] <alex_joni> :D
[11:18:50] <robin_z> thats effectively what i do, put a DROP rule in each of the iptables
[11:19:06] <alex_joni> right
[11:19:15] <alex_joni> iptables -P DROP
[11:19:18] <alex_joni> iptables -F
[11:20:17] <anonimasu> I like "drop in on rl0 from any to 192.168.0.1 probability 95%"
[11:20:33] <alex_joni> heh
[11:21:12] <anonimasu> probability is a funnny function
[11:21:14] <anonimasu> ^_^
[11:24:36] <robin_z> whatever, tripwire works well
[11:24:56] <robin_z> it saved a friend of mine just recently ...
[11:25:00] <anonimasu> it's mean as hell on lans
[11:25:19] <robin_z> client didn't pay ...
[11:25:19] <alex_joni> is it a standard thing?
[11:25:29] <robin_z> box was moved to new location ...
[11:25:40] <robin_z> tripwire kept mailing him ... with its new IP
[11:26:03] <alex_joni> nice
[11:26:04] <alex_joni> ;)
[11:26:10] <robin_z> apparently, for some unknown reason, the disk died ... weird huh?
[11:26:24] <anonimasu> alex_joni: in openbsd's pf
[11:26:28] <alex_joni> is it available on debian-sarge?
[11:26:37] <robin_z> alex_joni: apt-get install tripwire
[11:26:37] <anonimasu> no
[11:26:41] <anonimasu> :)
[11:26:44] <anonimasu> although tripwire is
[11:26:47] <robin_z> tripwire --init
[11:28:42] <robin_z> of course, putting your tripwire binaries and the keys on read-only media is not the workds worst plan ...
[11:28:55] <alex_joni> heh
[11:28:56] <alex_joni> yeah
[11:29:08] <alex_joni> so tripwire --init should be enough?
[11:29:58] <robin_z> well, review the policy file in /etc/tripwire/twpol.txt
[11:31:51] <robin_z> and run tripwire --check from time to time, from cron
[11:32:57] <robin_z> the truly paranoid keep their tripwire database on a seperate machine
[11:32:58] <alex_joni> okie
[11:33:46] <alex_joni> robin: where do I specify actions to perform?
[11:33:49] <alex_joni> in twpol.txt?
[11:33:56] <robin_z> yep
[11:34:03] <robin_z> that says what will be checked
[11:36:09] <alex_joni> I've seen that
[11:36:20] <alex_joni> where do I specify what email it should send when it fails
[11:36:37] <fenn> good morning
[11:36:53] <robin_z> * robin_z tries to remember
[11:36:58] <alex_joni> fenn: afternoon
[11:37:28] <fenn> i think it's almost my bedtime but i can't seem to go to bed
[11:37:41] <fenn> what's the current topic of discussion?
[11:38:08] <anonimasu> tripwire
[11:38:20] <fenn> blegh
[11:38:50] <alex_joni> heh
[11:38:56] <robin_z> or 50 pole brushless AC servos
[11:38:58] <alex_joni> fenn: any topic you'd wanna discuss?
[11:40:00] <alex_joni> try unmounting the resolver from that AC drive, then put it back on :D
[11:40:00] <fenn> hmmm
[11:40:17] <fenn> well i'm going to go get a van norman 12 h/v milling machine
[11:40:31] <fenn> never done anything like that before, worried it might fall and kill me
[11:40:41] <alex_joni> heh
[11:40:44] <robin_z> alex_joni: auto intitialisation is the plan :)
[11:40:45] <fenn> or break my friend's trailer
[11:41:06] <robin_z> fenn: weight?
[11:41:08] <alex_joni> robin: maybe a script is needed (check from cron, if tripwire --check fails, do some action like: mail ...)
[11:41:09] <fenn> 1800 lbs
[11:42:02] <robin_z> alex_joni: hmm, nah .. tripwire --test --email sends a mail automagically .. jobs run from cron mail their owner anyway ...
[11:42:58] <robin_z> fenn: 1800lbs since you say lbs, i assume you are in the US ...
[11:43:06] <robin_z> check your towing laws :)
[11:43:06] <alex_joni> robin: thx
[11:43:16] <fenn> robin: yep indiana
[11:43:52] <anonimasu> bleh I need to go back to work
[11:44:00] <anonimasu> need to test this stuff on a plc..
[11:44:01] <robin_z> in the UK, you would struggle to tow it legally
[11:44:07] <anonimasu> the code's growing like cancer.
[11:44:12] <robin_z> ick
[11:44:36] <anonimasu> I have 10 objects doing diff stuff, and I need to get some finished for other ones..
[11:44:38] <anonimasu> :)
[11:45:50] <robin_z> fenn: and you have some sort of hoist or crane at both ends of the journey?
[11:45:59] <fenn> eh hehehehe
[11:46:15] <fenn> i have a winch with which i hope to pull it up a ramp onto a trailer with
[11:46:20] <robin_z> ahh.
[11:46:29] <fenn> egyptian roller style
[11:46:34] <robin_z> yessss ...
[11:46:37] <robin_z> well,
[11:46:54] <robin_z> 1800 lbs is a lot ...
[11:47:02] <anonimasu> keep your friends with you
[11:47:06] <fenn> yeah it is a big winch, but that's not what i'm worried about
[11:47:14] <robin_z> the trailer is the worry
[11:47:28] <fenn> we just pulled a 35 foot sailboat onto the trailer a couple weeks ago with the same winch
[11:47:35] <robin_z> yeah?
[11:47:45] <robin_z> well, sounds like the trailer will take the load
[11:48:02] <robin_z> but ...
[11:48:07] <fenn> i gotta get it stood upright too, since it's lying on its side in the mud
[11:48:15] <anonimasu> :/
[11:48:24] <robin_z> if you could just drop it onto the ara above the axle, Id sya yes
[11:48:35] <fenn> handles busted off and belt covers smashed :( but for $200 its a steal
[11:48:40] <robin_z> but pulling it aver than long ramp ...
[11:48:46] <robin_z> over
[11:48:51] <robin_z> that long ramp
[11:49:05] <fenn> i might be able to get the guys at the scrap yard to pick it up with one of their monster forklifts
[11:49:13] <robin_z> yeah
[11:49:18] <robin_z> much better plan
[11:49:37] <fenn> you think rolling it down a ramp is a good idea?
[11:49:43] <fenn> with the winch
[11:49:44] <robin_z> mmmm ...
[11:49:46] <robin_z> not really
[11:49:51] <robin_z> depends on the trailer
[11:50:00] <alex_joni> giant fork lift is a great ideea
[11:50:03] <robin_z> the bit over the axle is a good place to place it
[11:50:07] <fenn> what if i put blocks under the end so it didnt tilt down
[11:50:20] <robin_z> but .. the long extended ramp ... I dunno
[11:50:32] <robin_z> might just buckle and twist :(
[11:51:11] <robin_z> maybe if you can tilt it and put blocks under at a couple of places
[11:51:24] <robin_z> if you just block the end ..
[11:51:39] <robin_z> well .. its like a bridge isnt it .. between the wheels and the end
[11:51:46] <robin_z> thats what, 10 foot?
[11:51:55] <fenn> yeah i was intending to put blocks under the end of the trailer and under the middle of the ramp
[11:52:03] <fenn> i think its about 10 feet
[11:52:20] <fenn> the trailer, not the ramp (ramp's 6 ft horizontal)
[11:52:28] <robin_z> yeah, I think
[11:53:13] <robin_z> basically, with that weight
[11:53:13] <robin_z> I wouldnt want it to go over any section of more than the base of the machine without a block under
[11:53:15] <robin_z> so block it every 5 foot maybe
[11:53:31] <fenn> ok thanks for the advice
[11:53:36] <robin_z> depends how big and butch your trialer is :)
[11:53:57] <fenn> hrm well i don't want to break it cause it's a not-really-friend of a friend's trailer
[11:54:08] <robin_z> ahh :)
[11:54:33] <robin_z> the best way with these thing is a fork truck
[11:54:40] <robin_z> and gantrys work well
[11:54:50] <fenn> gantry means what?
[11:54:56] <robin_z> umm
[11:55:04] <robin_z> big beam on legs
[11:55:13] <robin_z> or steel beam in a ceiling
[11:55:18] <fenn> with thing that slides on i beam on bearings?
[11:55:33] <robin_z> hoist it up .. drive the trailer out from underneath, lower it down
[11:55:40] <fenn> oh
[11:55:46] <robin_z> doesnt need to be that complex ...
[11:56:37] <fenn> don't know if i'm really ready for this thing or not
[11:56:48] <fenn> only prior experience is my gingery lathe :)
[11:56:57] <robin_z> this thing is in a scrap yard?
[11:57:00] <fenn> yea
[11:57:08] <anonimasu> hiring somone to tow it would probably be easy/cheap
[11:57:12] <anonimasu> or to lift it up the trailer..
[11:57:15] <robin_z> for $50 they might even drop it off for you
[11:57:27] <anonimasu> dont risk your life if you dont absolutely have to
[11:57:35] <robin_z> yeah
[11:57:44] <robin_z> a mill for $200 is cheap
[11:57:55] <robin_z> but $200 + 1 right foot is expensive
[11:58:04] <anonimasu> exactly..
[11:58:28] <anonimasu> when a mill's on the roll it's on the roll.
[11:58:33] <robin_z> the press I just moved cost $900 in crane fees ..
[11:58:41] <robin_z> but I still have all my fingers and toes
[11:58:43] <fenn> i read an article about a guy who was trying to move a mill he bought at an auction, then it fell on him and nearly bit his leg off
[11:58:52] <robin_z> yeah
[11:58:54] <fenn> he kept taking pictures :)
[11:59:05] <alex_joni> robin: ever changed your policy on tripwire?
[11:59:12] <robin_z> alex_joni: yeah
[11:59:15] <anonimasu> if it starts to move, get away :D
[11:59:26] <robin_z> I think I just did an init afterwards, to re-sign the db
[11:59:32] <anonimasu> brb, going to work now
[11:59:42] <alex_joni> I ran into some problems, when I do tripwire --update-policy twpol.txt
[11:59:58] <alex_joni> it complains about elements missing from the database
[12:00:14] <alex_joni> if I do a new --init it still uses the old policy
[12:00:20] <robin_z> oh ..
[12:00:27] <robin_z> I think I have forgotten
[12:02:12] <robin_z> yeah
[12:02:23] <fenn> can you make a useful tripwire database that will fit on a floppy?
[12:02:41] <alex_joni> ### Error: Policy Update Changed Object.
[12:02:41] <alex_joni> ### An object has been changed since the database was last updated.
[12:02:41] <alex_joni> ### Object name: Conflicting properties for object /etc/tripwire
[12:02:41] <alex_joni> ### > Modify Time
[12:02:46] <robin_z> fenn: sure
[12:02:51] <robin_z> mine is 1.2m
[12:04:26] <alex_joni> if I do a tripwire --update it just says Error: File could not be opened.
[12:04:33] <alex_joni> and it fails to find the database
[12:04:59] <robin_z> * robin_z tries a update-policy
[12:10:17] <fenn> well, if anyone's interested, I started a wiki on building a machine shop from the ground up
[12:10:30] <fenn> http://www1.atwiki.com/gingery_machines/
[12:10:34] <alex_joni> nice
[12:10:53] <alex_joni> fenn: remember to add your machine to the EMC-wiki once working ;)
[12:10:56] <fenn> will cover everything from foundry and whitworth surface plates to hexapod machining platforms
[12:11:31] <fenn> alex: add my machine? the van norman or the hexapod or the lathe or my computer or what?
[12:11:50] <fenn> the wiki is on a wiki host
[12:11:56] <fenn> somewhere in japan
[12:12:11] <alex_joni> there's an emc-wiki (on redpoint.co.uk)
[12:12:17] <alex_joni> and there's a list with machines running emc
[12:12:26] <robin_z> www.linux.cnc.org
[12:12:30] <alex_joni> once you have an machine running emc, you might want to add it there
[12:12:31] <robin_z> follow the wiki link
[12:12:37] <fenn> ah
[12:12:37] <alex_joni> www.linuxcnc.org
[12:13:36] <robin_z> would someone care to add wiki.linuxcnc.org to the DNS and point it to www2.redpoint.org.uk
[12:13:43] <robin_z> as a CNAME
[12:13:51] <alex_joni> bug Steve about that
[12:13:56] <alex_joni> as it's his hosting
[12:14:19] <rayh_> Sounds good to me.
[12:14:41] <rayh_> How does one go about that?
[12:14:41] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is starting to get annoyed by tripwire
[12:14:47] <robin_z> what?
[12:14:56] <robin_z> modifying the DNS??
[12:15:04] <rayh_> add the wiki.linuxcnc
[12:15:15] <robin_z> just change the DNS
[12:16:24] <alex_joni> mcedit /etc/bind/zones.conf ;)
[12:16:24] <alex_joni> or whatever the file is called
[12:16:24] <alex_joni> probably some click & pray for doze (I think Steve is running it on doze)
[12:16:24] <rayh_> And we'd do that on Steve's server?
[12:16:24] <rayh_> NT
[12:16:24] <robin_z> no
[12:16:31] <robin_z> on the name server
[12:16:44] <alex_joni> depends.. maybe Steve's server is the DNS server ;)
[12:17:11] <robin_z> ;linuxcnc.org.INNS
[12:17:11] <robin_z> ;; ANSWER SECTION:
[12:17:11] <robin_z> linuxcnc.org.26956INNSns1.coile.com.
[12:17:11] <robin_z> linuxcnc.org.26956INNSns1.pmdinc.com.
[12:17:25] <alex_joni> well.. not ;)
[12:17:48] <rayh_> pmdinc is his.
[12:18:04] <robin_z> well,
[12:18:05] <robin_z> debian:/var/lib/tripwire# host ns1.pmdinc.com
[12:18:06] <robin_z> ns1.pmdinc.com has address 64.124.155.131
[12:18:06] <robin_z> debian:/var/lib/tripwire# host www.linuxcnc.org
[12:18:06] <robin_z> www.linuxcnc.org is an alias for linuxcnc.org.
[12:18:06] <robin_z> linuxcnc.org has address 64.124.155.133
[12:18:15] <robin_z> so smae rack I gues
[12:18:16] <robin_z> s
[12:19:08] <rayh_> * rayh_ is humbled once again by his limited web ability.
[12:19:26] <rayh_> rayh_ is now known as rayh
[12:20:04] <rayh> I'll post a note to steve.
[12:21:18] <alex_joni> robin: dpkg-reconfigure tripwire seemed to do the trick
[12:24:14] <alex_joni> almost anyways...
[12:24:35] <alex_joni> doing a tripwire --check outputs one error /etc config file changed
[12:26:17] <fenn> does the creative commons license actually provide you with any liability protection?
[12:26:29] <fenn> or is it just smokescreen
[12:27:22] <robin_z> liability protection, hell no
[12:27:34] <robin_z> its exactly what it says on the tin
[12:28:04] <fenn> is there even any such thing as liability protection?
[12:28:12] <robin_z> if you want to copy it and use it feel free
[12:28:21] <robin_z> so long as you offer the samew terms
[12:28:30] <fenn> i mean, if i tell someone to go stick their head in a furnace, what do i have to do so they can't sue me?
[12:28:30] <robin_z> yes, I have liablity insurance
[12:30:24] <fenn> from the ccl: 6. Limitation on Liability. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL LICENSOR BE LIABLE TO YOU ON ANY LEGAL THEORY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THIS LICENSE OR THE USE OF THE WORK, EVEN IF LICENSOR HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
[12:31:01] <fenn> afraid i only speak english, japanese, spanish, and italian
[12:32:33] <alex_joni> robin: when I run tripwire --check I get a violation on /etc/tripwire
[12:32:44] <alex_joni> and I did run an tripwire --update
[12:32:55] <alex_joni> but it still does the same, any ideas?
[12:33:43] <robin_z> http://www.tripwire.org/qanda/index.php
[12:33:45] <rayh> There does seem to be some discussion of REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW.
[12:34:08] <fenn> so somone in poland could sue me but not in argentina... hmmm
[12:34:18] <fenn> * fenn cackles
[12:35:58] <rayh> "Linux Today - InfoWorld: GPL May Be Unenforceable Under German Law"
[12:36:47] <fenn> apparently it is illegal to grow garlic in your garden in germany
[12:37:12] <rayh> I can understand that!
[12:37:22] <fenn> it is a medicine since it has "some beneficial health value" so yu are practicing medicine without a license ;)
[12:37:29] <robin_z> well, the way it works
[12:37:39] <robin_z> if you accept the GPL, you can use the software
[12:37:44] <robin_z> if you dont, you cant
[12:38:03] <robin_z> so if its not useable under German law .. then germans cant use Linux ...
[12:43:00] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[12:44:08] <robin_z> hey steve
[12:44:46] <robin_z> SWPadnos: how about adding wiki.linuxcnc.org pointing as a CNAME to www2.redpoint.org.uk
[12:45:23] <alex_joni> robin: that's stephen
[12:45:31] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was talking about SteveStallings
[12:45:36] <robin_z> ahh
[12:45:40] <robin_z> worng steve
[12:46:16] <SWPadnos> sure :)
[12:46:47] <SWPadnos> (sorry - should have marked myself !away after getting coffee :) )
[12:46:54] <rayh> I sent stallings a note a bit ago.
[13:02:05] <alex_joni> robin: does tripwire --init && tripwire --check work properly for you?
[13:11:55] <alex_joni> hey les
[13:13:59] <les> hello alex
[13:26:33] <nevyn_> nevyn_ is now known as nevyn
[13:33:04] <alex_joni> les: what's new?
[13:33:30] <les> oops was away
[13:33:36] <alex_joni> yeah .. me too
[13:33:51] <les> I was just checking about the birmingham cnc show
[13:34:09] <alex_joni> right
[13:34:22] <alex_joni> got some nice pics of your emc machine?
[13:34:34] <alex_joni> besides the one on lmwatts.com ?
[13:34:43] <les> hmm let me check
[13:37:56] <les> only a few...
[13:38:10] <les> I have one pic here of when it was being built
[13:38:23] <alex_joni> good quality?
[13:38:32] <les> yes want it?
[13:38:39] <alex_joni> yup
[13:38:44] <alex_joni> can you mail it to me?
[13:39:06] <les> sure...oh I also have autocad drawings
[13:39:45] <les> I can give you the drawings for the machine design if you want
[13:40:30] <les> email ad?
[13:40:30] <alex_joni> thx.. that would be great too
[13:55:32] <alex_joni> hey steve
[13:55:42] <alex_joni> got the message from rayh?
[13:56:26] <stevestallings> hi Alex, yes, trying to chat with Robin now, but no response yet
[13:56:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni prods robin_z
[13:57:19] <stevestallings> DNS is on my server, but there are issues.....
[13:57:27] <alex_joni> like?
[13:58:27] <stevestallings> as best I can tell (I am not a guru), the CNAME record must point to another server in the same domain, e.g. mywikiserver.linuxcnc.org
[13:58:27] <robin_z> issues?
[13:58:27] <robin_z> nah
[13:58:27] <robin_z> cnames can point to ANYTHING
[13:58:31] <robin_z> dont forget the dot
[13:58:31] <stevestallings> I think what is needed is a redirect from a web server
[13:58:51] <robin_z> no
[13:58:51] <robin_z> its a CNAME thats required
[13:58:52] <robin_z> but dont forget the dot at the end
[13:59:30] <robin_z> wiki CNAME www2.repoint.org.uk.
[13:59:38] <robin_z> if you do :
[13:59:39] <robin_z> wiki CNAME www2.repoint.org.uk
[13:59:56] <robin_z> then it becomes www2.repoint.org.uk.linuxcnc.org
[14:00:10] <robin_z> the dot at the end is important
[14:00:33] <alex_joni> repoint?
[14:00:39] <robin_z> redpoint. sorry
[14:02:05] <stevestallings> I know about the dot at the end. My DNS admin will even add it automatically. What it will not do is feed me coffee until I quit reversing the ALAIS and HOST fields.
[14:02:17] <les> robin quick qusetion: what is the name of that birmingham show?
[14:03:30] <alex_joni> robin: does www2.redpoint.co.uk even work?
[14:05:28] <stevestallings> OK, it is there, but I had to go for www.redpoint... instead of www2.redpoint.
[14:06:08] <stevestallings> Goes to default page on Quacky.
[14:07:02] <stevestallings> Now what?
[14:08:50] <alex_joni> Steve: make it point to www2
[14:09:23] <alex_joni> I think robin is planning to add a CNAME from there to the actual wiki
[14:09:28] <alex_joni> or whatever
[14:10:24] <stevestallings> OK, now that I know it works I will change back to WWW2
[14:11:32] <alex_joni> coo
[14:12:01] <stevestallings> Of course all the DNS servers have the WWW address cached now. 8-(
[14:12:36] <les> robin has vanished on us
[14:12:43] <les> get mail alex?
[14:12:47] <stevestallings> you noticed
[14:13:06] <les> hi steve
[14:13:12] <stevestallings> hi les
[14:13:31] <rayh> Hey thanks for that Steve and others.
[14:13:36] <alex_joni> les: got some issues with my link :(
[14:13:47] <alex_joni> but the mail is there, just can't download it :((
[14:14:02] <les> It's big
[14:14:09] <les> I could dcc as well
[14:14:56] <les> The picture was during assembly of the machine
[14:15:19] <les> getting things square and straight to .01mm
[14:15:25] <alex_joni> it's not that big (about 1.5 Meg if I've seen it correctly)
[14:15:27] <les> which is a bit of work
[14:16:48] <stevestallings> Les, a few days ago you mentioned a GlentekCNC and I was wondering if they are related to the Glentek servo folks.
[14:17:40] <stevestallings> Hi Ray. What is the plan for wiki.linux.cnc? Should I change the links when it goes live?
[14:17:53] <les> steve...not related
[14:18:07] <les> but I am currently working with them
[14:18:55] <les> can't give much details...but I am contemplating selling a new type of cnc router
[14:19:06] <rayh> stevestallings: Don't think it matters much unless the wiki location changed.
[14:19:06] <les> not sure about the market though
[14:19:52] <rayh> a link to wiki.linuxcnc.org would be easier to maintain.
[14:20:12] <stevestallings> True. Figured that was the aim.
[14:20:21] <alex_joni> les: got the mail
[14:20:30] <les> good
[14:21:08] <robin_z> hey les,
[14:24:12] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:06:06] <A-L-P-H-A> item has finally came in the mail.
[15:08:00] <A-L-P-H-A> the DA300 collet holder.
[16:31:06] <les> alex take a look at the picture and drawing?
[16:31:27] <les> oops gone home
[16:31:33] <les> heh
[17:21:39] <bowika> I am sorry for disturbing you, but I am just reading the Hal_introduction.pdf.........and i read about hal_parport program, and ither hal management progs
[17:21:39] <bowika> >bowika< and I can find these on my emc2 dir
[17:21:40] <bowika> >bowika< how can i compile them or why didn't these progs compile?
[17:27:19] <Bowika> I am sorry for disturbing you, but I am just reading the Hal_introduction.pdf.........and i read about hal_parport program and other hal management progs, and I can find these on my emc2 dir.
[17:27:21] <Bowika> How can i compile them or why didn't these progs compile?
[17:36:34] <rayh> Bowika: I can't help you but there are a couple others that seem to be lurking or away right now that can.
[17:37:33] <Bowika> ok thanks, i am waiting.........
[17:59:40] <rayh> picnet: Do you work with emc2?
[18:33:58] <paul_c> There is no HAL stuff in the bdi-4 branch, and the head of emc2 won't compile on a 2.6 install
[18:34:22] <paul_c> This needs to be resolved during the codeFest.
[19:24:01] <paul_c> * paul_c pounces on alex_joni
[19:24:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni pounces back
[19:24:55] <alex_joni> what's up ?
[19:25:33] <paul_c> waiting for something to die prematurely...
[19:25:58] <alex_joni> what's gonna die?
[19:26:25] <paul_c> dunno...
[19:26:35] <alex_joni> huh?
[19:26:54] <paul_c> Running a little app, and it spits out "we might die prematurely" once in a while.
[19:27:11] <alex_joni> lol
[19:27:16] <alex_joni> nice
[19:27:31] <alex_joni> but it won't top my favorite error message ;)
[19:27:44] <alex_joni> "you don't exist! go away!"
[19:30:44] <rayh> alex_joni: You're home.
[19:30:50] <les> look at the file and picture alex?
[19:30:55] <alex_joni> les: yes
[19:31:01] <alex_joni> nice
[19:31:16] <alex_joni> didn't get the chance to properly look at it, just a glimpse on both
[19:31:25] <alex_joni> rayh: indeed
[19:31:35] <alex_joni> http://www.plethora.net/~seebs/ops/ibm/cranky37.html
[19:39:22] <rayh> alex_joni: when you get a chance Bowika has a question about emc2 compiles.
[19:39:29] <rayh> He posted while you were out.
[19:39:47] <alex_joni> I'm trying to access the logsd
[19:39:51] <alex_joni> logs
[19:43:22] <Bowika> my questions were:
[19:43:24] <Bowika> I am sorry for disturbing you, but I am just reading the Hal_introduction.pdf.........and i read about hal_parport program and other hal management progs, and I can find these on my emc2 dir.
[19:43:25] <Bowika> How can i compile them or why didn't these progs compile?
[19:44:06] <alex_joni> Bowika: certainly you are not disturbing
[19:44:38] <alex_joni> I didn't use those myself, but if you wait a minute I'll take a look
[19:47:22] <Bowika> i had a private chat with paul_c and he said that it won't work on bdi-4
[19:47:23] <alex_joni> Bowika: as I see it
[19:47:39] <alex_joni> you should get hal_parport and hal_skeleton compiled
[19:47:39] <Bowika> ok
[19:47:54] <alex_joni> what are you trying to do?
[19:48:30] <alex_joni> the other files in hal\drivers only have a RT component
[19:48:44] <alex_joni> and thus they only get compiled as modules (filename.o)
[19:48:52] <Bowika> i just want to try how it works..
[19:49:16] <Bowika> ok
[19:49:25] <alex_joni> well.. if you really want to try you should go ahead and use the RT stuff
[19:49:25] <alex_joni> does emc2 work?
[19:49:25] <alex_joni> scripts/emc.run ?
[19:49:31] <Bowika> yes it works
[19:49:44] <alex_joni> ok.. then I assume hal is working properly
[19:49:56] <alex_joni> next you might want to try some hal components
[19:50:06] <alex_joni> do a scripts/realtime start
[19:50:23] <alex_joni> after that you can insmod the hal modules you want to play with
[19:50:50] <alex_joni> you have 'halcmd' (along with a lot of options) to set params, create signals, link those to pins
[19:51:01] <alex_joni> try to follow the steps in HAL_introduction.pdf
[19:51:14] <Bowika> it will not work 'cause as i saw there was no realtime dir in the bin dirs
[19:51:29] <alex_joni> not in the bin dir
[19:51:45] <Bowika> i only followed the commands of
http://www.redpoint.org.uk/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?BDI-4_Install
[19:51:56] <alex_joni> errrr
[19:52:02] <Bowika> yes errrrr
[19:52:02] <alex_joni> is this bdi4 ?
[19:52:06] <Bowika> yes it is
[19:52:10] <alex_joni> well then.. bummer
[19:52:18] <alex_joni> bdi4 is not emc2 :)
[19:52:25] <alex_joni> and it doesn't contain hal
[19:52:37] <alex_joni> and emc2 doesn't work on bdi4 neither
[19:52:41] <Bowika> yes, it doesn't
[19:53:02] <alex_joni> that's because emc2 doesn't work on 2.6 (doesn't compile at the moment)
[19:54:24] <Bowika> i downloaded the emc2 by cvs and did a "make" and blabla .....following the commands mentioned above
[19:54:52] <alex_joni> are you sure you downloaded emc2 ?
[19:55:26] <alex_joni> did you use: cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc checkout -Pr bdi-4 -d emc emc2 ?
[19:55:39] <alex_joni> if you did then you DIDN'T download emc2
[19:56:01] <alex_joni> you downloaded the emc from BDI4 (located in CVS under emc2, but the bdi4 branch)
[19:56:24] <Bowika> ok i run "cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc checkout -Pr bdi-4 -d emc emc2"
[19:56:26] <alex_joni> the bdi4-emc is somewhere between emc (which runs with rcslib) and emc2 (runs with libnml)
[19:56:42] <alex_joni> so you actually have emc1 on your machine
[19:57:02] <alex_joni> and the stuff downloaded from CVS resembles more to emc1 than it does to emc2
[19:58:00] <Bowika> ok
[19:58:31] <Bowika> what do i have to do if i'd like to acquire a real emc2?
[19:59:24] <alex_joni> for now? install a 2.4 kernel
[20:00:27] <alex_joni> Bowika: if you have issues with installing / compiling kernels (and patching it with rtai) try installing BDI-Live
[20:01:31] <Bowika> i have the 2.4.18 kernel and rtlinux 3.2 installed, 'cause i usually develop in its
[20:01:44] <alex_joni> right...
[20:01:55] <alex_joni> well run that kernel, and do a cvs checkout:
[20:02:08] <Bowika> that's all?
[20:02:10] <alex_joni> cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/emc checkout -dP emc emc2
[20:02:23] <alex_joni> make sure you get HEAD not the bdi-4 branch
[20:02:33] <alex_joni> after that ./configure && make
[20:02:39] <alex_joni> should be enough
[20:03:19] <alex_joni> rtlinux-free?
[20:03:26] <Bowika> yes it is
[20:04:20] <alex_joni> might work :)
[20:04:39] <alex_joni> the parts from configure were written kinda blindly (for rtlinux)
[20:04:50] <alex_joni> so I think it's great if you try it
[20:05:03] <alex_joni> if it doesn't work.. please do complain :D
[20:06:19] <Bowika> ok i have to restart my computer.....will you be here in 15 minutes?
[20:06:28] <alex_joni> think so :)
[20:07:02] <Bowika> ok i will try it
[20:07:47] <Bowika> bye for a while
[20:13:04] <rayh> alex_joni: Thanks a bunch.
[20:13:20] <alex_joni> rayh: what for?
[20:20:31] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as alex_joni_away
[20:41:02] <alex_joni_away> alex_joni_away is now known as alex_joni
[20:41:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back
[20:43:12] <alex_joni> now where's Bowika?
[20:46:27] <SWPadnos> rebooting still?
[20:47:21] <alex_joni> starting processor: 1137/5128
[20:47:36] <SWPadnos> big cluster there ;)
[20:47:43] <alex_joni> yeah
[20:47:46] <alex_joni> =))
[20:48:09] <alex_joni> hope he'll be back soon
[20:48:18] <alex_joni> I'm preparing to crash :)
[20:48:18] <SWPadnos> getting late for you?
[20:48:30] <alex_joni> a few more mins till tomorrow
[20:48:42] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:48:52] <SWPadnos> Right - Romania
[20:49:45] <alex_joni> EEST=GMT+2
[20:51:11] <SWPadnos> We're usually GMT-5, but I'm not sure what happens with daylight savings (or standard time or whatever we're actually on in the summer)
[20:51:17] <SWPadnos> It's 17:00 here
[20:51:49] <SWPadnos> (EST5EDT)
[20:54:20] <les> hi
[20:54:27] <SWPadnos> he there
[20:54:31] <SWPadnos> hi there, even
[20:54:47] <alex_joni> hey les
[20:54:55] <les> had a long long talk with Mariss at gecko
[20:55:06] <alex_joni> cool.. bout what?
[20:55:14] <les> might try the g200x for a commercial control
[20:55:19] <alex_joni> how's the Vampire coming?
[20:55:29] <les> robin is messing with it
[20:55:39] <alex_joni> with the g200x .. yes
[20:55:45] <les> Vampire?
[20:55:53] <SWPadnos> the unkillable stepper driver
[20:56:01] <les> oh
[20:56:16] <les> new boards go on the pick and place tommorow
[20:56:23] <alex_joni> although.. people suggested it might die from a wooden stick that gets rammed through the PCB
[20:56:25] <SWPadnos> the G200X OEM?
[20:56:34] <les> I was counting on emc
[20:56:37] <SWPadnos> no - only silver bullets (and garlic causes it to malfunction)
[20:56:38] <les> yes the oem
[20:56:44] <les> but I need a backup
[20:56:58] <SWPadnos> You can make your own :)
[20:57:05] <SWPadnos> (the schematics are published)
[20:57:25] <les> A great fear with customer support if I put emc in a commercial product
[20:57:31] <les> it works great for me
[20:57:37] <les> but I am an engineer
[20:57:42] <SWPadnos> the G200X is emc
[20:57:45] <les> customers would not be
[20:57:58] <alex_joni> SWP: partly
[20:58:02] <les> the interpreter is emc
[20:58:05] <alex_joni> not neccesarely
[20:58:06] <les> the rest is not
[20:58:13] <SWPadnos> highly modified and optimized for a small microcontroller
[20:58:17] <alex_joni> afaik there's another version aswell
[20:58:19] <les> yeah
[20:58:24] <SWPadnos> yes - the Machx version
[20:58:54] <les> the mach version is a separate thing art is doing
[20:58:58] <SWPadnos> yes
[20:59:07] <les> you can put whatever you want on the rabbit
[20:59:26] <SWPadnos> or even make a different controller board (which I may do with an AVR or something)
[20:59:29] <les> c compiler dev kit =$150
[20:59:37] <les> according to Mariss
[20:59:59] <SWPadnos> yeah - sort of. I picked up their literature at ESC, and the "real" dev kits seem like they're a bit more
[21:00:03] <alex_joni> les: c compiler dev kit for AVR = 0$
[21:00:05] <SWPadnos> I'd have to look it over again though
[21:00:17] <alex_joni> includes gcc, gdb, etc
[21:00:20] <les> I just told him I needed a controller that could do smooth 1000 ipm motions
[21:00:21] <SWPadnos> not quite - that's only if you can fit into 4k of object code
[21:00:27] <SWPadnos> the assembler for the AVR is free though
[21:00:31] <les> with .001" repeatability
[21:00:35] <SWPadnos> oh - you're talking GCC - nevermind
[21:00:42] <alex_joni> JTAG for avr = 50$
[21:00:56] <les> and not use off the shelf components for a mee too product
[21:01:35] <SWPadnos> Either the G200X or Jon Elson's board can do that
[21:01:43] <les> for emc to be considered segmentqueue must work
[21:01:50] <SWPadnos> (or a custom FPGA board)
[21:02:09] <les> and the linux must be transparent to the user
[21:02:38] <alex_joni> les: there was a suggestion a while back
[21:02:40] <les> linux is good, but I can't sell that learning curve to a signmaker or something
[21:02:40] <SWPadnos> that can only work if it's basically impossible for the user to run any other application (like CAD, word processor, email, etc.)
[21:02:42] <alex_joni> make emc run on linux
[21:02:51] <alex_joni> but the display on doze
[21:03:00] <les> exactly
[21:03:03] <SWPadnos> yes - the "ethernet CNC"
[21:03:15] <les> that is a good plan
[21:03:18] <alex_joni> make the emc-machine a SBC burried deep inside
[21:03:26] <alex_joni> maybe even with linuxbios :)
[21:03:33] <alex_joni> boots in a few seconds
[21:03:37] <SWPadnos> les - you should add segmentqueue discussions to the Fest ToDo list
[21:03:59] <les> emc's advantage is (with a working segmentqueue) is that it has sophisticated motion planning and servo loops
[21:04:05] <SWPadnos> actually - there are flash IDE hard drives (up to a couple of gig) that would significantly increase boot speed)
[21:04:33] <alex_joni> SWP: how so?
[21:05:02] <robin_sz> evening ..
[21:05:04] <SWPadnos> Well - data transfer and seek are a part of bootup (though I realize that waiting for peripherals to respond is a lot more of the time)
[21:05:34] <alex_joni> SWP: afaik flash is a lot slower than hdd's
[21:05:39] <les> anyway Mariss will send me a 200x if I buy the rabbit
[21:05:41] <SWPadnos> I should have said "flash drives that plug into an IDE connector
[21:05:51] <SWPadnos> true for writes (though marginally), not necessarily true for reads
[21:05:53] <alex_joni> yeah that too
[21:05:54] <robin_sz> les: kewl ... buy the Rabbit from mariss presubaly
[21:06:04] <alex_joni> reads ~ 10-12 MB?
[21:06:07] <SWPadnos> damn - I'll take that deal :)
[21:06:07] <les> sure why not
[21:06:09] <robin_sz> as it will need to be programmed
[21:06:20] <les> dev kit $150?
[21:06:24] <robin_sz> nah
[21:06:28] <robin_sz> oh,
[21:06:30] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:06:41] <SWPadnos> Even compactflash is in the 4-6 MB/sec write range
[21:06:47] <robin_sz> but a programming lead is $25 and there is an updater for free
[21:06:58] <robin_sz> you only need the dev to compile
[21:06:58] <les> oh and he explained the convolution scheme
[21:07:12] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: dont forget .. flash burns out in 100K r/w cycles
[21:07:15] <les> it is not convolving waypoints
[21:07:21] <robin_sz> les: makes sense now?
[21:07:29] <les> but velocity by interrupt
[21:07:35] <SWPadnos> true, but for a boot drive (non-swap) that shouldn't be an issue
[21:07:36] <robin_sz> yes, thats sounds right
[21:07:38] <SWPadnos> vibration proof as well :)
[21:07:44] <les> so constant filter poles
[21:08:01] <robin_sz> right
[21:08:06] <SWPadnos> in the rabbit software?
[21:08:11] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:08:17] <les> anyway he had good arguments
[21:08:23] <SWPadnos> he always does :)
[21:08:26] <les> I should try it
[21:08:31] <alex_joni> SWP: how about battery backed up SRAM?
[21:08:33] <robin_sz> the rabbit has the interp, tp and motion smoothers all in it
[21:08:38] <SWPadnos> nope
[21:08:41] <alex_joni> now that would rock
[21:08:45] <alex_joni> 100MB/sec+
[21:08:52] <SWPadnos> yesh - like suspend / resume
[21:09:03] <alex_joni> yup
[21:09:35] <les> although I still take issue with his using an h-bridge switching scheme that dissipates servo energy in the output fets in regenerative braking
[21:09:40] <robin_sz> les: regardless of mariss convioncing arguments, i have the results running here .. and thats the biggest convincing argument you will ever see :)
[21:10:12] <les> well it will do smooth 1000 ipm moves...
[21:10:23] <les> and .001" repeat
[21:10:24] <robin_sz> les: you should have seen the steppers run emcfin.nc after the post-processor ...
[21:10:31] <les> and is DIRT cheap
[21:10:34] <robin_sz> smooooth
[21:10:36] <robin_sz> yep
[21:10:37] <les> it works for me
[21:11:01] <SWPadnos> actually, you should be able to get higher speed and/or higher resolution with it
[21:11:06] <SWPadnos> (if you need it)
[21:11:11] <les> replaced all those lines with arcs?
[21:11:16] <robin_sz> some
[21:11:24] <robin_sz> 84% reduction :)
[21:11:27] <les> must not have been emc1
[21:11:36] <robin_sz> no was on the G2002
[21:11:56] <les> it is incapable of runnung joined arcs in anything other than exact stop mode
[21:12:04] <les> makes gouges
[21:12:15] <robin_sz> segmotqueus runs them in blended mode though??
[21:12:33] <robin_sz> I thought you had segmot?
[21:12:33] <les> robin how big is your test machine?
[21:12:43] <les> segmentqueue blends arcs yes
[21:12:51] <anonimasu> what are you discussing?
[21:12:59] <robin_sz> les this is just a test frame at home, 3 steppers in a rack
[21:13:08] <anonimasu> heh
[21:13:18] <robin_sz> les; I have a 2.5m x 1.25m plasma at the factory
[21:13:23] <les> g200x flavors of emc
[21:13:27] <les> or part emc
[21:13:29] <SWPadnos> Come on over - we can attach them to my Bridgeport :)
[21:13:38] <robin_sz> heh
[21:13:41] <les> heh
[21:14:00] <les> the emc plaque is fairly nice looking
[21:14:06] <SWPadnos> (though if I had mounts made, MY motors would already be attached)
[21:15:11] <SWPadnos> alex_joni: also, flash discs don't have to spin up - so especially if you use LinuxBIOS, you get a much faster boot
[21:15:20] <robin_sz> would a post-process version in purely lines be of interest??
[21:15:35] <alex_joni> right
[21:15:54] <SWPadnos> What does pause / resume do to that idea?
[21:16:06] <robin_sz> to which idea?
[21:16:18] <robin_sz> the G2002?
[21:16:23] <robin_sz> or segmot
[21:16:25] <SWPadnos> the lines-only post -I suppose nothing, really
[21:16:31] <les> well I have it with different granularity as far as line segments
[21:16:35] <robin_sz> should work perfectly
[21:16:40] <les> emcfine is the tough one
[21:16:57] <les> designed specifically to beat up controls
[21:17:04] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:17:12] <robin_sz> it killed the G2002 to a crawl
[21:17:30] <robin_sz> segemnts shorter than 1 interrupt period do that
[21:17:55] <robin_sz> after processing it ran as sweet as a nut
[21:18:10] <robin_sz> you could hear it making lovely sounds around the curls ...
[21:18:27] <les> that speaks well of g200x
[21:19:30] <les> Had reservations about Mariss' tp calcs as opposed to a full third order bezier
[21:19:38] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:19:39] <les> but if it works
[21:19:43] <robin_sz> its a bit of a fudge
[21:19:49] <les> yes
[21:19:50] <robin_sz> but it does seem to work
[21:20:10] <robin_sz> certainly for most "normal" tasks
[21:20:16] <les> anyway he said If I didn't like his fudge...change it
[21:20:22] <robin_sz> heh
[21:20:30] <robin_sz> thats open source for you
[21:20:37] <les> yup
[21:20:47] <robin_sz> probably best get a dev kit then :)
[21:21:23] <robin_sz> at least 60% of the code will be totally familiar
[21:21:32] <robin_sz> if you know EMC
[21:21:54] <robin_sz> the code is in the files section of the group, as binaries and source
[21:23:13] <SWPadnos> hmmm - at 1000IPM, one interrupt is 1/60 inch (0.01666) - how often do you need to do that fast a direction change (given inertia and cutter size)?
[21:23:28] <les> I guess he is using the interpreter, task handler, and such
[21:23:40] <robin_sz> roughly speaking, yes
[21:23:52] <robin_sz> without the nml ickiness
[21:24:05] <anonimasu> um..
[21:24:08] <anonimasu> 0.423164mm
[21:24:16] <les> swp: It's more of an issue of stopping at a particular point
[21:24:29] <anonimasu> that's enough to hit a clamp.
[21:24:40] <SWPadnos> I was referring to the "segments shorter than one interrupt" thing
[21:24:45] <les> could be
[21:24:56] <les> yeah I understand
[21:25:01] <les> it's an issue
[21:25:29] <les> well let have hypothetical 0.2 g accel...
[21:25:36] <les> 1000 ips....
[21:25:38] <SWPadnos> Just trying to understand why (and in what situations)
[21:25:50] <SWPadnos> 1000 IPM
[21:25:59] <les> oops right
[21:26:01] <les> so
[21:26:06] <SWPadnos> heh - that would be a problem
[21:27:31] <robin_sz> the 1khz int rate is akin to a servo update rate, its always a good idea to have it at least twice the rate of the basic system freq response .. its not hard to conceive a system with a 500hz basic freq response is it?
[21:28:01] <robin_sz> and .. you can always set it lower of you waish
[21:28:02] <les> ok .2g at that speed gives a min corner radius of 0.21"
[21:28:57] <les> so yes must slow down for sharp corners
[21:29:24] <les> ideally slowing spindle too to mantain chip load
[21:29:32] <les> but that would be problematic
[21:29:53] <les> spindles are not designed for low inertia
[21:30:22] <les> and yeas robin must not violate nyquist
[21:30:33] <les> brb
[21:30:52] <SWPadnos> me too - dinner and the wife just arrived :)
[21:34:07] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[21:45:47] <les> had to run out before the general store closed
[21:46:28] <les> hey chris
[21:51:18] <alex_joni> night guys
[21:51:56] <les> night alex
[21:53:25] <rayh> see you alex.
[22:02:12] <cradek> hi les
[22:39:48] <dmess> Hello all... ; )
[22:40:41] <asdfqwega> You do not exist. Go away!
[22:41:06] <A-L-P-H-A> didn't I read that earlier on slashdot?
[22:42:15] <asdfqwega> I don't know...did you?
[22:42:51] <asdfqwega> Ugh...it's been awhile since I've actually done some machining...
[22:43:19] <asdfqwega> Had to do a 2-3/8"-6 thread
[22:43:50] <asdfqwega> with no compound and no thread dial indicator
[22:44:53] <asdfqwega> But, it's like riding a bike or smashing your thumb with a hammer...you never forget how ;)
[22:46:03] <asdfqwega> Now that that is done...food!
[22:52:58] <anonimasu> goodnight everyoen
[22:58:04] <dmess> i can see my ms network... woo hoo....
[23:03:49] <paul_c> * paul_c does an nmap on dmess
[23:08:28] <dmess> whats that do?
[23:10:16] <paul_c> checks for open ports
[23:18:43] <les> better do a dmess on nmap too
[23:18:50] <les> can't be too careful.
[23:21:44] <les> Ran infamous emcfine.tap on the g200x/partly emc
[23:21:50] <les> fairly smooth
[23:21:55] <les> robin ran it
[23:25:00] <paul_c> I also had "fairly smooth" runs for the most part.
[23:25:15] <les> mess with the queue size?
[23:26:15] <les> Had a long long telphone talk with Mariss fremantis today
[23:26:45] <les> he is not using segmentqueue
[23:27:05] <les> but has changed the TP
[23:28:05] <les> emcfine.tap should really beat up kernel/user comms from what you say
[23:30:39] <paul_c> I plan on doing some tests over the weekend - But I need to get this CD finished first
[23:30:55] <les> it beats up Mariss' 22 MHz z-80 too
[23:30:57] <les> cool
[23:31:54] <les> I must get off...bad thunderstorm near
[23:31:57] <les> later
[23:32:39] <SWPadnos> see ya
[23:32:44] <les> bye
[23:32:57] <SWPadnos> paul_c: are you doing a newer BDI-4?
[23:33:31] <paul_c> No.
[23:33:48] <SWPadnos> ok
[23:41:45] <dmess> is the live CD related to BDI 4.2??
[23:44:03] <paul_c> it uses someof the packages, yes.