#emc | Logs for 2005-03-29

[03:50:50] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hears crickets
[03:54:57] <LawrenceG> has anyone seen any code to take true type fonts and convert them to centerline cut paths for a V cutter (for sign engraving)?
[03:55:42] <Jymmm> Hold on, I remember something let me find the link
[03:56:10] <LawrenceG> any ideas on algorithms? there are several font editors under linux that could have an extra gcode export function added.
[03:56:19] <Jymmm> LawrenceG : http://timeguy.com/cradek/truetype
[03:57:59] <LawrenceG> thanks Jymmm.... I knew I had seen something..... I will investgate.... it still only does outlines by the looks of it, but its close.
[03:58:40] <Jymmm> well it can generate the g-code at least, I suspect cradek would know more, he wrote it =)
[03:59:24] <LawrenceG> excellent... i see he is lurking here in the weeds
[03:59:29] <Jymmm> LawrenceG notice his comment near the bottom =)
[04:04:26] <LawrenceG> kind of quite tonight... did youcatch any of the weekend developer discussions?
[04:04:37] <Jymmm> not a one =)
[04:05:21] <LawrenceG> I keep meaning to listen in to see whats happening and I am always late!... too far west I guess
[04:05:38] <Jymmm> I kinda avoid participating in that, just be a silent stalker instead
[04:07:07] <LawrenceG> I got my shoptask fired up this weekend.... I have some work to do... the ball screws have 0.020" lash... there must be some balls missing or something... I verified the slop is between the screw and the nut... not good
[04:07:29] <Jymmm> ouch, hope you find the culprit
[04:09:28] <LawrenceG> yep... I still have the original acme thread screws... they wer not bad. The ballscrews have another problem... when the stepper drives switches to reduced power after a second or so, themachining forces have a bad habit of back driving the steppers...that pretty much destroys whatever was being cut :{
[04:13:01] <Jymmm> thats even worse - now your just destroying stock
[04:41:18] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[04:46:32] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is now known as Jymmm
[04:48:06] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[04:48:54] <Jymmm> * Jymmm is still known as Jymmm
[05:54:09] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[05:54:14] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[07:31:16] <anonimasu> good morning
[07:31:28] <Jymmm> G'Evening
[07:31:41] <Jymmm> almost midnight
[07:33:41] <Jymmm> how ya doin ?
[07:34:23] <anonimasu> I am doing well
[07:34:42] <anonimasu> hunting subcontractors with a torch.
[07:35:03] <anonimasu> fun fun :D
[07:35:06] <Jymmm> tesla coild is MCUh more fun
[07:35:15] <anonimasu> oh too immobile..
[07:35:15] <Jymmm> tesla coil is MUCH more fun
[07:35:19] <anonimasu> haha
[07:35:42] <Jymmm> Nah, tos sthat puppy on your back and make sure they're grounded
[07:36:20] <anonimasu> otherwise then that I am starting to code in a hurry..
[07:36:23] <anonimasu> to meet my deadline..
[07:36:28] <Jymmm> "Could you hold this 20' steel chain for me a moment please?"
[07:36:36] <anonimasu> how do you do?
[07:37:21] <Jymmm> Not bad, working on getting a design into CAD for, but with no CAD program! =)
[07:37:30] <Jymmm> s/for/form/
[07:37:54] <anonimasu> lol
[07:38:08] <anonimasu> I need a good cad program that's parametric and cheap..
[07:38:26] <anonimasu> somthing like solidworks but that dosent cost anything
[07:39:11] <Jymmm> heh
[07:39:19] <Jymmm> i know the feeling
[07:39:33] <Jymmm> go sign up at a college and get the student pricing
[07:39:38] <anonimasu> lol it's for work..
[07:40:10] <anonimasu> so it's impossible
[07:40:18] <Jymmm> so dont give otu tthe drawing =)
[07:40:44] <anonimasu> I am looking at adlibre..
[07:40:51] <anonimasu> but I need to grab the demo off it..
[07:40:56] <Jymmm> FreeCAD
[07:41:00] <anonimasu> parametric?
[07:41:09] <Jymmm> animation!
[07:41:22] <anonimasu> I dont care for that..
[07:41:26] <anonimasu> i need it parametric..
[07:41:40] <Jymmm> no clue
[07:41:55] <anonimasu> you know when you draw a dimension to drive a wall on your part or somthing like that..
[07:42:18] <anonimasu> adlibre is like solidworks i hear..
[07:42:57] <Jymmm> ask robin when he's around, I think he has a familurarity for them both
[07:43:02] <Jymmm> but I could be wrong
[07:43:10] <anonimasu> oh.. I am going to try it..
[07:43:15] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[07:43:28] <Jymmm> Well, I think I have a date with MrPillow
[07:43:51] <Jymmm> G'night
[08:01:38] <alex_joni> greetings
[08:01:42] <alex_joni> anybody home?
[08:03:18] <anonimasu> I am
[08:03:28] <anonimasu> what's up?
[08:07:01] <alex_joni> nothing ;)
[08:07:09] <alex_joni> Mariss told me how to hack a gecko
[08:07:15] <alex_joni> to work without encoder feedback
[08:07:45] <alex_joni> do you know what a 'wiper' is?
[08:08:27] <anonimasu> hm, not really
[08:08:34] <anonimasu> why would you want to do that?
[08:08:49] <anonimasu> to use it as a regular servo amp?
[08:10:27] <alex_joni> yup
[08:10:40] <alex_joni> I need it for a low-cost project
[08:10:45] <anonimasu> ah, ok
[08:10:46] <alex_joni> the encoders don't fit in there
[08:12:35] <anonimasu> I have no idea sorry
[08:12:35] <anonimasu> :/
[08:12:57] <alex_joni> never mind ;)
[08:28:35] <alex_joni> hey robin
[08:28:45] <alex_joni> s/robin/robins/
[09:17:30] <A-L-P-H-A> <yawn>
[09:30:01] <robin_z> hej
[09:50:27] <anonimasu> hm..
[09:50:31] <anonimasu> how large is a toshiba bmc-7
[09:50:36] <anonimasu> I found a great deal on a cnc mill..
[09:55:20] <anonimasu> hey paul
[09:55:28] <anonimasu> do you have any idea how large a toshiba toshiba BMC 8 is?
[10:00:19] <anonimasu> I found one for a good price..
[10:00:29] <anonimasu> with a 60 pos tool changer
[10:00:30] <anonimasu> :)
[10:01:24] <anonimasu> but I dont know how heavy it is..
[10:02:19] <paul_c> can find VMC8, but not BMC8
[10:03:02] <paul_c> http://uen.hsix.com/q/webinv/008150=iform,,,,a,,,20069190,,
[10:04:46] <paul_c> and for a '95 machine, barge pole springs to mind...
[10:07:44] <paul_c> gotta go & do some "stuff"
[10:07:46] <anonimasu> hm..
[10:07:47] <anonimasu> :/
[10:08:00] <anonimasu> shit.
[10:08:02] <anonimasu> too large.
[10:08:19] <anonimasu> :~(
[10:08:39] <anonimasu> 2600$
[10:10:21] <robin_z> heres how it works
[10:10:26] <robin_z> big = cheap
[10:18:40] <anonimasu> :/
[10:18:48] <anonimasu> I want a mid sized one
[10:25:29] <robin_z> bridgport
[10:33:27] <anonimasu> nope...
[10:33:41] <anonimasu> a real cnc mill
[10:38:19] <robin_z> oh well,
[10:38:24] <robin_z> in that case ...
[10:38:32] <robin_z> 15K
[10:38:43] <robin_z> you get cheap big ones
[10:38:49] <robin_z> cheap bridgports
[10:39:02] <robin_z> and mid sized precision CNCs
[10:39:04] <robin_z> for 15K
[10:39:43] <robin_z> anything small and cheap is going to be, what we call in the trade, "scrap"
[10:40:05] <anonimasu> 15k isnt cheap..
[10:40:13] <robin_z> exactly
[10:40:28] <anonimasu> I might aswell throw 30k on a mill if that's the pricetag they go for..
[10:40:39] <robin_z> you dont get small, cheap cncs, except bridgports and there ilk
[10:40:46] <anonimasu> bleh.. crap
[10:41:15] <anonimasu> casting a base would be cheaper..
[10:41:20] <anonimasu> and buying good linear rails..
[10:41:24] <anonimasu> and good svrews..
[10:41:28] <anonimasu> screws..
[10:41:33] <robin_z> theres a lot of nice CNCs, new for 30K
[10:41:56] <robin_z> 15K will get you a 2nd hand one
[10:42:10] <robin_z> 3K will get you a servo'd bridgport
[10:42:19] <robin_z> you can always run ebc on it ;)
[10:43:58] <anonimasu> hm, will that get me a vital + drives?
[10:44:18] <robin_z> drives yes
[10:44:23] <robin_z> a vital, no
[10:44:36] <robin_z> most of the later bridgies have decent drives
[10:44:43] <robin_z> and nice servos
[10:45:07] <anonimasu> well this is sweden.. hard to get em here..
[10:45:23] <alex_joni> morning paul_c
[10:47:40] <robin_z> anhttp://www.goindustry.com/en/equipmentdetails.asp?sOfferID=382789onimasu:
[10:56:47] <robin_z> wahey ... just got the delivery time for the press
[10:56:53] <robin_z> 12pm thursaday
[10:56:58] <robin_z> thats mroe like it,
[10:57:38] <robin_z> thats going to make a BIG difference
[10:57:46] <robin_z> * robin_z does a happy dance
[11:04:46] <alex_joni> what press?
[11:08:42] <robin_z> Amada "promecam" 25/50
[11:08:49] <robin_z> 2.5m, 50 tonne
[11:08:54] <robin_z> 2 axis CNC
[11:08:55] <alex_joni> nice
[11:16:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:18:53] <alex_joni> robin: in Mariss's response to my message
[11:19:17] <alex_joni> what's that wiper he talks about?
[11:19:26] <alex_joni> is that the median pin of the trimpot?
[11:31:55] <anonimasu> maybe
[11:31:56] <anonimasu> http://www.metalworking-forum.com/metalworking/Steppers_are_deadlong_live_servos_544807.html
[11:33:09] <anonimasu> seems like it is
[11:46:30] <alex_joni> an0n: still around?
[11:51:37] <anonimasu> yeah
[11:51:49] <anonimasu> just ordered some stuff for my car :)
[11:51:52] <alex_joni> can you try www.robcon.ro one more time?
[11:52:06] <anonimasu> still dosent work
[11:52:16] <alex_joni> thx
[11:52:25] <alex_joni> I finally talked to the provider
[11:52:27] <alex_joni> in us
[11:52:28] <alex_joni> US
[11:52:40] <anonimasu> ok
[11:52:44] <alex_joni> and he said they are experiencing big problems with the weather ???
[11:52:51] <anonimasu> ah
[11:53:01] <anonimasu> les talked about it a couple of days ago
[11:53:04] <anonimasu> tornados.. and hail..
[11:53:07] <alex_joni> he did?
[11:53:19] <anonimasu> he was watching some radar forecast on the net..
[12:00:55] <anonimasu> .)
[13:09:02] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[13:10:06] <SWPadnos> alex_joni: yes, Mariss is talking about the pin on your pot that changes voltage
[13:10:34] <alex_joni> ok
[13:11:16] <SWPadnos> or another voltage source (like a scaled tach feedback voltage)
[13:21:10] <alex_joni> heh.. I have 3 mouses connected to my laptop
[13:25:39] <alex_joni> SWP: how about connecting a joystick there?
[13:25:45] <alex_joni> the pot from the joystick?
[13:25:58] <alex_joni> I need that on 2 geckos, and the joystick would be ideal
[13:29:33] <SWPadnos> interesting idea - it would probably work
[13:29:52] <SWPadnos> Maybe I'll try one of those Penney & Giles sticks I have :)
[13:29:55] <alex_joni> if I get it right, I wouldn't need to supply any pulses
[13:31:07] <SWPadnos> well - one thing to look at is the effective resolution
[13:32:29] <SWPadnos> The Gecko power amp is meant to respond to 40mv differences in input voltage - from 255 distinct "position" states
[13:36:16] <alex_joni> so I need -40mV .. 0 .. 40 mV
[13:36:41] <SWPadnos> no - the position monitor steps 40 mv per encoder pulse (or step pulse)
[13:36:59] <alex_joni> right 255 * 40 mV
[13:37:06] <SWPadnos> yep
[13:37:18] <alex_joni> so I need to be within 40 mV during idle
[13:37:26] <alex_joni> so that the motor doesn't run away
[13:38:12] <SWPadnos> nope - even 1mv will eventually cause runaway
[13:38:33] <SWPadnos> you do need some sort of feedback somewhere in the chain
[13:39:17] <alex_joni> it's not integrative
[13:39:23] <alex_joni> 1 mV stays 1 mV
[13:39:46] <alex_joni> at least that's how I get it
[13:40:19] <alex_joni> this voltage was difference between commanded and actual position.. right?
[13:41:01] <alex_joni> hmmm.. I forgot about the 0 hunting the gecko does
[13:41:02] <alex_joni> :(
[13:41:11] <SWPadnos> right ;)
[13:41:36] <alex_joni> I have to try it out.. and see what happens ;)
[13:42:13] <SWPadnos> yes - just follow Nicolas Benezian's advice - desolder and lift the pin on the chip, don't cut the trace
[13:42:24] <alex_joni> of course I won't ;)
[13:42:25] <SWPadnos> that way, if it doesn't work, you can just resolder it
[13:42:31] <alex_joni> right..
[13:42:41] <alex_joni> even if cut.. a wire is not hard to solder :D
[13:43:04] <SWPadnos> true enough, but harder on a trace (scrape scrape scrape)
[13:43:17] <alex_joni> heh..
[13:43:34] <SWPadnos> and fitting wires onto SOIC parts is rarely too fun
[13:43:38] <alex_joni> scrape scrape (layer2) scrape (layer 3) scrape (bottom layer) ..
[13:43:46] <SWPadnos> drill drill
[13:43:49] <SWPadnos> oops
[13:43:54] <alex_joni> heh
[13:45:30] <alex_joni> cradek: around?
[13:56:28] <alex_joni> laters
[14:13:17] <os2finn> paul_c:hi
[17:36:59] <robin_z> hey ho
[18:14:25] <Jymmm> Morning Folks!
[18:16:06] <anonimasu> morning jymm
[18:16:15] <anonimasu> s/jymm/jymmm
[18:17:51] <Jymmm> That's ok, I answer to almost anything!
[18:20:51] <anonimasu> haha
[18:21:00] <anonimasu> what's up today?
[18:21:29] <Jymmm> just trying to work out the design and it's cavets
[18:21:39] <anonimasu> nice :)
[18:23:21] <Jymmm> Now I'm pondering if I should make a moving gantry that's bottom mounted, or a suspended one.
[18:24:29] <anonimasu> hm ok
[18:25:53] <Jymmm> bottom mounted: lower center of gravity, more stable. Suspended: less base material as it would use 'legs' over the workpiece
[18:28:12] <anonimasu> hm..
[18:28:14] <anonimasu> yep
[18:28:48] <Jymmm> make sense?
[18:34:58] <anonimasu> hm, maybe
[18:35:16] <anonimasu> actually I am not sure..
[18:35:35] <anonimasu> the suspended one might be more stable.. since you have a more rigid frame to support it..
[18:36:26] <Jymmm> Well, the frame on bottom mounted would be attached to a solid piece of material
[18:37:26] <anonimasu> hm, get somone to simulate deformation of it during a load :)
[18:37:29] <robin_z> hey Jymmm
[18:37:44] <Jymmm> Hola robin_z
[18:37:57] <robin_z> I remembered one other thing you MUST read too
[18:38:09] <anonimasu> *flees*
[18:38:15] <robin_z> on the Sherline site ...
[18:39:13] <anonimasu> robin_z: where ?
[18:39:53] <robin_z> http://sherline.com/bsnsbook.htm
[18:40:23] <Jymmm> robin_z ah, ty
[18:42:26] <anonimasu> ah yeah
[18:42:28] <anonimasu> seen that
[18:42:34] <anonimasu> somthing like that somwehere
[18:42:34] <anonimasu> :)
[18:42:42] <robin_z> its worth reading
[18:42:59] <Jymmm> reading now... (after coffee cup refill)
[18:43:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:48:23] <alex_joni> greetings
[18:48:38] <SWPadnos> greetings
[18:49:03] <alex_joni> what's up?
[18:50:44] <SWPadnos> just designing a 16-channel lighting controller
[18:50:55] <alex_joni> lighting?
[18:51:02] <alex_joni> as in storms?
[18:51:03] <SWPadnos> for some effects in a play
[18:51:03] <alex_joni> :D
[18:51:12] <SWPadnos> no - that was the lightning controller
[18:51:25] <SWPadnos> (I did that a couple of years ago for a different play :) )
[18:51:32] <alex_joni> right
[18:51:51] <alex_joni> right
[18:51:58] <alex_joni> but it got out of your hands?
[18:52:55] <SWPadnos> funny - the project directory was created March 27, 2003 - just about 2 years ago :)
[18:52:55] <SWPadnos> actually, it was just a programmable delay machine which fired remote controlled strobes in a pattern
[18:53:49] <alex_joni> SWP: regarding the gecko
[18:53:57] <SWPadnos> ya
[18:54:08] <alex_joni> I read the posts again
[18:54:28] <alex_joni> the pin of the LM293 (pin 2)
[18:54:33] <alex_joni> that's input to the PWM
[18:54:50] <alex_joni> if the voltage there is 2.5V then the PWM outputs 0V on the motor
[18:55:11] <SWPadnos> ah - true. That's after the PID on the Gecko
[18:55:33] <robin_z> so
[18:55:38] <robin_z> heres a thought ...
[18:55:46] <SWPadnos> but, if you don't have some sort of feedback somewhere in the system, you'll still get runaway
[18:55:59] <SWPadnos> (or at least, unknown position)
[18:56:04] <robin_z> if you disconnect the encoder and give it +128 counts it will go full rail right?
[18:56:27] <alex_joni> only for a while
[18:56:28] <SWPadnos> I would think so - in fact, you shouldn't need 128 counts - one or two would do
[18:56:29] <robin_z> -128 counts and you're back to zero ...
[18:56:31] <alex_joni> then it will error
[18:56:34] <robin_z> right
[18:56:37] <robin_z> thats true ..
[18:56:47] <robin_z> but turn the gain down, turn I to 0
[18:56:47] <SWPadnos> just up one for forward
[18:56:53] <SWPadnos> down one for still
[18:56:56] <SWPadnos> and down one more for reverse
[18:57:25] <SWPadnos> can you get I to 0 (do you know the adjustment range of the trimpot)?
[18:58:04] <robin_z> no eyed deer
[18:58:11] <robin_z> just a thought
[18:58:16] <SWPadnos> me either - it could be from 0.01 to 1000 for all I know
[18:59:02] <robin_z> I was just thinking of ways to get the PID loop out into the G200X
[18:59:38] <robin_z> a low-gain jumper to give +128 counts to take it to full rail
[18:59:44] <robin_z> well .. it would work ..
[19:00:01] <SWPadnos> The output isn't directly proportional to the error
[19:00:07] <SWPadnos> (unless you can cancel I)
[19:00:13] <robin_z> agreed
[19:00:41] <robin_z> couple of jumpers onthe G200X
[19:00:46] <robin_z> and the 320
[19:00:47] <tbl> morning robin.
[19:00:48] <SWPadnos> and any output will eventually get to a rail, given any nonzero I
[19:00:56] <robin_z> morning tbl dude!
[19:01:06] <tbl> how goes it?
[19:01:21] <robin_z> SWPadnos: but with a PID loop inthe 200X it would keep it under control
[19:01:32] <robin_z> tbl: not so great .. but still hangin in
[19:01:34] <robin_z> you?
[19:01:49] <SWPadnos> true, I wonder if that's any better than having it in hardware inside the Gecko
[19:01:56] <robin_z> dunno
[19:02:08] <robin_z> just a thought
[19:02:26] <tbl> robin_z: good to hear. doing okay - busy as usual
[19:02:45] <robin_z> there seems to be a presumption against step servos .. I presume for a reason
[19:03:07] <robin_z> tbl: still busy being a sysadmin?
[19:03:22] <tbl> yeah, designing some pretty neat systems
[19:03:26] <robin_z> kewl
[19:03:28] <alex_joni_> you guys have any samba&domain experience?
[19:03:32] <tbl> like fully redundant mailservers
[19:03:36] <tbl> alex_joni_: yeah
[19:03:39] <robin_z> neato
[19:03:47] <alex_joni_> tbl: having a big weird problem
[19:04:00] <alex_joni_> but I think it's more on the client (win2k) side
[19:04:01] <tbl> alex_joni_: is there a windows server on the network?
[19:04:09] <alex_joni_> nope, just samba
[19:04:12] <alex_joni_> on debian sarge
[19:04:14] <robin_z> alex_joni_ yeah, samba works, windows sometimes even sees it :)
[19:04:16] <alex_joni_> 3.0.x samba
[19:04:25] <alex_joni_> configured as a PDC
[19:04:30] <tbl> windows active directory breaks samba
[19:04:34] <tbl> like, on purpose
[19:04:41] <robin_z> yeah
[19:04:45] <tbl> i have the same setup here, no problems
[19:04:49] <robin_z> and XP ive had no trouble with ...
[19:04:58] <robin_z> but me/2k/the rest ..
[19:05:00] <robin_z> sigh
[19:05:00] <alex_joni_> tbl: I have some policy
[19:05:03] <robin_z> POS.
[19:05:24] <alex_joni_> and the thing is: when I log on to a win2k machine with a domain user (not domain admin)
[19:05:25] <tbl> i ahve all windows users authenticating off of freebsd NIS to login to the 'domain'
[19:05:39] <alex_joni_> the user seems to have some privilege problems on doze
[19:05:59] <alex_joni_> mainly on IE I see problems (can't save, can't configure, etc.)
[19:06:43] <tbl> solution: Firefox
[19:06:57] <alex_joni_> tbl: IE not the only one with problems
[19:07:15] <alex_joni_> but that's where I found the problems
[19:07:33] <Jymmm> my gf started walking today, but has problems with her knee... Told her I'm gonna lojack her ass! (we're hams and have the radios and gps's that can do it)
[19:07:40] <robin_z> I must admit all I have ever done is use it as a file sahre
[19:07:41] <robin_z> share
[19:07:59] <alex_joni_> robin: it can do a LOT more than that ;)
[19:08:02] <Jymmm> http://findu.com/
[19:08:06] <robin_z> I know ...
[19:08:19] <alex_joni_> it's kinda nice too
[19:08:21] <robin_z> but ive never needed anyting more
[19:08:27] <alex_joni_> right
[19:08:42] <robin_z> Jymmm: G1YFG and G7DQP here ;)
[19:09:25] <Jymmm> robin_z lol! For such a "rough" start together, we do have a lot in common!
[19:09:27] <tbl> irssi lakcs
[19:09:54] <robin_z> "my gf started walking today" ... coo. personally, I never date kids until they can walk and are out of daipers ;)
[19:10:25] <anonimasu> :D
[19:10:46] <Jymmm> robin_z: Must be my Viking tendancies... take a REALLY young wife so she'll take car of me when I'm old and decreped (sp)
[19:10:52] <alex_joni_> tbl: some other weird issue I noticed: samba is configured to log to /var/log/samba/%m.log
[19:11:02] <alex_joni_> but I get machine_name.log and ip.log
[19:11:15] <tbl> that is because
[19:11:19] <cradek> sounds like a reverse dns problem
[19:11:25] <tbl> if the computer doesn't have a valid (or no) HOSTNAME set
[19:11:30] <tbl> not PTR, but like the windows name
[19:11:41] <alex_joni_> PTR?
[19:11:43] <tbl> it will get an IP instead of Machine_Name
[19:11:45] <robin_z> alex_joni: so you can set Samba up to only let people log in to "their" accoutn on the server, hoemdirs and all that over the network?
[19:11:48] <tbl> PTR is reverse dns
[19:11:58] <alex_joni_> robin: sure (doing that since win95)
[19:11:58] <tbl> the machine_name you are refering to is WINNS
[19:12:06] <alex_joni_> tbl: yes
[19:12:19] <robin_z> alex_joni: 'k .. never needed to do it, but sounds sensible
[19:12:24] <alex_joni_> WINS (or Netbios name)
[19:12:43] <alex_joni_> well .. Windows name is set
[19:12:58] <robin_z> so ... maybe I boot this Sarge box and moutn this 160gb disc and try it,
[19:13:12] <alex_joni_> and the machines are members of the DOMAIN, with trust accounts created
[19:16:03] <alex_joni_> should I add the machines to /etc/hosts too?
[19:19:57] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[19:27:12] <robin_z> just run a proper DNS
[19:27:17] <robin_z> maybe
[19:27:27] <robin_z> how many machines do you have
[19:27:29] <robin_z> ?
[19:27:48] <robin_z> theres a limit at which DNS becoems easier than copying hosts files about
[19:28:08] <robin_z> some people argue that limit is 2 machines ...
[19:28:09] <cradek> or put a hosts map in your NIS
[19:28:19] <robin_z> others think it is less than that ;)
[19:28:48] <alex_joni> NIS?
[19:28:59] <robin_z> YPBIND and all that I think
[19:29:05] <robin_z> ??
[19:29:09] <cradek> sorry, that bordered on a troll
[19:29:37] <alex_joni> don't have yp* running
[19:31:42] <alex_joni> but I put the machines in /etc/hosts
[19:33:26] <alex_joni> bummer.. that didn't help
[19:33:55] <cradek> alex_joni: is your host.conf order host,bind?
[19:34:05] <cradek> alex_joni: is your host.conf order hosts,bind?
[19:35:02] <alex_joni> order hosts, bind
[19:35:04] <alex_joni> multi on
[19:42:54] <alex_joni> anyways.. going to bed
[19:43:05] <alex_joni> don't have nerves to debug this any more ;)
[19:43:08] <alex_joni> bye guys
[19:49:06] <anonimasu> iab
[19:56:50] <acemi> is there any disadvantage to use emc with kernel 2.6.8?
[20:01:43] <SWPadnos> 2.6.8 had some bugs, there was a quick release of
[20:01:58] <SWPadnos> like - data-eating bugs
[20:04:44] <A-L-P-H-A> watched fear factor at the gym yesterday... they were eating live beatles. that was disguisting... the bugs were stuffed into a donut.
[20:15:45] <robin_z> doh ..
[20:16:15] <robin_z> my 5r old boy: "I didn't eat my apple pieces at luchtime because they where squidgy"
[20:16:28] <robin_z> me: "thats because they are banana"
[20:16:35] <robin_z> no brains ..
[20:19:03] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands robin_z a fruit color chart to pass along....
[20:24:38] <A-L-P-H-A> what was the saying?
[20:24:45] <A-L-P-H-A> the apple doesn't fall far from the tree? :)
[20:24:49] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[20:24:52] <A-L-P-H-A> hhahahahaha
[20:25:10] <robin_z> the way I see it ..
[20:25:24] <robin_z> an apple fell from a tree and hit Newton on the head
[20:25:40] <robin_z> if it had been a bunch of bananas, it would have killed him
[20:25:45] <anonimasu> :D
[20:25:59] <anonimasu> somtimes I wonder if that would have been for the benefit of the world.
[20:26:00] <anonimasu> :p
[20:26:19] <robin_z> well, he was mostly right
[20:26:22] <A-L-P-H-A> was it just cuase your kid didn't like bananas? or what?
[20:26:43] <robin_z> he just thought it was shuishy apple ..
[20:26:44] <anonimasu> robin_z: that dosent make it good
[20:26:45] <anonimasu> :p
[20:26:46] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hands robin_z a crossbow and a name tag that says "Bill"
[20:26:49] <robin_z> I presume he has no taste
[20:27:01] <anonimasu> lol
[20:28:02] <Jymmm> well shuishy apple dont taste too good either
[20:29:11] <Jymmm> I remember a friends kid would call me "Two Gim Yuck Yuck" It's was funny
[20:33:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, apple sauce?
[20:33:57] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Like I said... =)
[20:34:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I understand Gim = Jymm...
[20:34:13] <A-L-P-H-A> apple sauce is awesome... well... the good stuff is.
[20:34:15] <Jymmm> Now, Apple Cider is another thing
[20:34:21] <A-L-P-H-A> apple cider isn't a sauce then.
[20:34:35] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Yeah, he couldn't say Jim, so he said Gim
[20:34:50] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the "two" mean?
[20:35:03] <A-L-P-H-A> and why yuck yuck?
[20:35:05] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: No lcue what so ever; a kid being a kid
[20:35:11] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[20:35:25] <Jymmm> maybe too many eposiodes of Three Stooges
[20:35:40] <A-L-P-H-A> hell if I would let my kid watch the 3 stooges.
[20:35:58] <Jymmm> Oh many that was it... I think *I* watched too many episodes and would go "yuk yuk yuk " to him
[20:39:26] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Well, Three Stooges is probably a LOT better than anything else you'll find on TV today.
[20:55:38] <robin_z> Jymmm: did you enjoy the Sherline thing?
[20:55:59] <Jymmm> only 60% thru it
[20:56:42] <robin_z> right
[20:56:56] <Jymmm> but, so far yes =)
[20:57:02] <robin_z> its a good read
[21:00:53] <robin_z> if someting bad happens ...
[21:01:07] <robin_z> once is happenstance
[21:01:14] <robin_z> twic is unfortunate
[21:01:26] <robin_z> thrice is the result of enemy action
[21:02:30] <Jymmm> heh
[21:03:01] <Jymmm> robin_z did you see whaite I wrote earlier about bottom mounted gantry -vs- suspended?
[21:03:41] <robin_z> nope
[21:04:15] <robin_z> as in ..
[21:04:29] <robin_z> a fixed gantry and moving table?
[21:04:45] <Jymmm> I was trying to figure out the pro/con os suspended - as it would take less bulk material to mfg
[21:04:46] <robin_z> so router moves across the gantry
[21:04:58] <robin_z> table moves back/forward
[21:05:00] <robin_z> ??
[21:05:02] <Jymmm> botom mounted: like the ebay one
[21:05:16] <robin_z> right
[21:05:20] <robin_z> versus?
[21:05:28] <Jymmm> just a sec
[21:05:32] <robin_z> one thing:
[21:05:36] <robin_z> material is cheap
[21:05:54] <robin_z> time is what costs
[21:06:31] <Jymmm> Becasue it's MDF, the weight/size for shipping is gonna be very high
[21:06:38] <Jymmm> almost freight
[21:06:39] <robin_z> right
[21:06:45] <robin_z> 4x4 ...
[21:06:51] <robin_z> freight
[21:06:58] <robin_z> it wont even go on a pallet
[21:07:14] <Jymmm> but if someone can buy a single sheet locally and just provide them a template, that would help dramatically
[21:07:25] <robin_z> hmmm
[21:07:28] <Jymmm> for the base that is
[21:07:39] <robin_z> you just lost 50% of your customers
[21:08:25] <Jymmm> So if i don't provide a stand for amill I'll loose customers?
[21:08:38] <robin_z> depends ...
[21:08:48] <robin_z> if its just a stand, well they can put it on a table
[21:09:01] <robin_z> if its the basboard with all the raisl mounted then yes
[21:09:09] <Jymmm> who's the guy that lives in Scottland?
[21:09:24] <narnia_> narnia_ is now known as narnia
[21:09:26] <robin_z> most people who are buying your machine rather than building it .. wel
[21:09:33] <robin_z> if they have to part build it
[21:09:38] <les> hi robin
[21:09:43] <robin_z> theyd just buy some steppers and some rod ..
[21:09:50] <les> I se some trouble here...look
[21:09:53] <robin_z> he les
[21:10:01] <les> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503923681&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[21:10:12] <Jymmm> les whos the guy you know in Scotland that makes jewlery and such?
[21:10:23] <les> Rab Gordon
[21:10:28] <Jymmm> url?
[21:10:35] <les> just a seb
[21:10:46] <les> rainneagraphics.com
[21:10:52] <les> I think
[21:11:09] <les> a new unit of time...the seb
[21:11:37] <robin_z> mmm nice engrager
[21:12:28] <les> look at that price
[21:12:30] <robin_z> 4k5 .. cheap too
[21:12:41] <robin_z> ok, 5k8 with shipping
[21:12:43] <les> Is it all over for building machines for us?
[21:12:50] <robin_z> yep
[21:12:50] <les> I't chineses I think
[21:13:18] <les> and...every tom dick and harry will have one
[21:13:50] <les> I need some info on that thing
[21:13:55] <robin_z> well ..
[21:14:03] <robin_z> the guy selling it is based in the USA
[21:14:25] <robin_z> its not a chinese guy selling direct
[21:14:28] <robin_z> so ...
[21:14:33] <Jymmm> robin_z: I consider this "suspended" http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_5axis.htm
[21:14:42] <robin_z> say .. 3k5 trade? maybe less?
[21:14:43] <les> I should have gone over there and tooled one up
[21:14:50] <les> somebody was gonna do it
[21:15:28] <les> I would guess 3k5 or araound there
[21:15:45] <les> damn
[21:16:16] <les> moving gantry too
[21:16:25] <robin_z> yep
[21:16:27] <Jymmm> The only problem I see is duties
[21:16:31] <les> I must get some info
[21:16:56] <les> duties have not been a problem with the Myriads of other asian tools
[21:16:59] <robin_z> yeah, I'll handle the .eu market, you do the US :)
[21:17:04] <les> heh
[21:17:10] <robin_z> 2% IS IT?
[21:17:22] <robin_z> duties are low
[21:17:24] <les> shopbot must be freaking out
[21:17:29] <les> or is in on it
[21:17:30] <robin_z> heh
[21:17:47] <robin_z> wonder how tough it is ...
[21:17:49] <Jymmm> not everyone has 220VAC either
[21:17:56] <robin_z> sure ....
[21:18:00] <les> oh 1k3 shipping
[21:18:05] <les> still
[21:18:07] <les> cheap
[21:18:09] <robin_z> well, yeah
[21:18:11] <robin_z> cheap
[21:18:23] <robin_z> look at the gantry ...
[21:18:29] <robin_z> see the sides ?
[21:18:32] <les> yeah?
[21:18:32] <robin_z> castings.
[21:18:38] <les> seems to be
[21:18:39] <robin_z> you know what that means ...
[21:18:54] <robin_z> bulk production
[21:19:04] <les> yeah
[21:19:05] <Jymmm> look cast
[21:19:12] <robin_z> build times of an hour, tops
[21:19:22] <les> looks fairly well designed
[21:19:28] <robin_z> yep
[21:19:36] <robin_z> spindle looks a bit puny
[21:19:42] <robin_z> but still
[21:20:00] <les> who knows what is inside that spindle box
[21:20:10] <robin_z> well the collet is tiny
[21:20:30] <robin_z> its not called "dayton" either
[21:20:33] <les> yeah sure is
[21:20:51] <robin_z> looks like a photoshop job
[21:21:08] <robin_z> not // or in perspective
[21:22:26] <robin_z> * robin_z googles
[21:22:35] <les> I already did
[21:23:05] <robin_z> not hitting it yet ...
[21:23:34] <les> it is a photoshop job ...I see what you mean
[21:24:01] <robin_z> and .. its big brother
[21:24:03] <robin_z> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503998497&rd=1
[21:24:16] <les> the other sizes odf "dayton" machines are STEPPER
[21:24:33] <les> therefore near useless for serious business
[21:24:51] <robin_z> depends ...
[21:24:59] <robin_z> might have encoders
[21:25:06] <les> yeah
[21:25:12] <les> i'll bet not though
[21:25:28] <robin_z> a properly designed stepper system is fine
[21:25:37] <robin_z> here,
[21:25:44] <robin_z> have this HP laserjet printer
[21:25:56] <les> haha
[21:26:25] <robin_z> just have enough power in hand for "emergencies" and you are fine
[21:26:31] <robin_z> and spin the suckers :)
[21:26:40] <les> I will contact this guy
[21:27:14] <les> How can I find out who the hell is making the thing
[21:27:30] <les> bet it's mach software
[21:27:36] <robin_z> nah
[21:27:45] <robin_z> bet its not
[21:27:49] <robin_z> bet its NO PC
[21:27:54] <robin_z> bet its an ASIC
[21:27:55] <les> what else could it be?
[21:28:34] <les> If it's an ASIC they are gonna blow everything away
[21:28:55] <les> but....
[21:29:08] <les> hell a PIC could run one of the things
[21:29:19] <robin_z> 50 bucks says itsself contained
[21:29:28] <les> hmmm
[21:29:42] <robin_z> probably HPGL for engraving
[21:29:58] <les> no bet cause you have too strong a tendency to be right
[21:30:02] <les> damn you
[21:30:07] <robin_z> heh :)
[21:30:24] <robin_z> this is chineses
[21:30:34] <robin_z> they will have nit built in the support issues of a dodgy PC
[21:30:41] <robin_z> not
[21:31:08] <les> It's the first I have seen...
[21:31:13] <les> same for you?
[21:31:18] <robin_z> yeah
[21:31:24] <robin_z> predicatbale though
[21:31:26] <les> I mean asian low cost cnc
[21:31:32] <robin_z> yeah
[21:31:33] <Jymmm> HOT DAMN! Found the mfg in china!
[21:31:38] <les> sure I was waiting
[21:31:42] <robin_z> likewise
[21:31:51] <robin_z> Jymmm: name em and shame em
[21:31:52] <les> WHO???\
[21:32:10] <Jymmm> Hell no, you two already conspired to out sell em!
[21:32:27] <les> common
[21:32:28] <Jymmm> Besides, I was just kidding! =)
[21:32:46] <les> I WIL find em
[21:32:53] <les> WILL even
[21:32:54] <Jymmm> though I did find other engravers
[21:32:58] <Jymmm> bigger
[21:33:21] <robin_z> my man is going to .cn in a few weeks
[21:33:23] <Jymmm> oh.. and NOW I find all these laser engravers... eeeesh
[21:34:05] <les> I can see it now...Harbor Freight cnc routers
[21:34:12] <robin_z> beat them to it.
[21:34:44] <les> It is early in the game isn't it?
[21:34:49] <les> hmmm
[21:34:56] <robin_z> yep
[21:35:03] <robin_z> first show
[21:35:16] <robin_z> * robin_z passes les a hot iron
[21:35:32] <les> ouch
[21:35:49] <les> I'll talk to this guy
[21:36:09] <les> after running a more thorough google
[21:36:23] <les> To make damn sure this is first show
[21:36:58] <robin_z> 4k5 ....
[21:37:07] <robin_z> the shiping is odd
[21:37:20] <robin_z> container to .eu from .cn is 700 GBP
[21:37:23] <les> I think the shipping cost is bogus
[21:37:24] <robin_z> full load
[21:37:27] <robin_z> yeah
[21:37:29] <les> "hadling fee"
[21:37:35] <robin_z> yeah
[21:37:42] <robin_z> and starst at 3999
[21:38:01] <Jymmm> Damn --> SPINDLE SPEED RANGE 63-3000RPM(Variable)
[21:38:05] <robin_z> no need to shout :)
[21:38:08] <les> yes the key still sticks
[21:38:10] <Jymmm> Max. SPINDLE TORQUE 150Nm
[21:38:22] <robin_z> coo
[21:38:37] <les> 150 Nm no way
[21:38:39] <Jymmm> travel XY: 600 x 400 mm
[21:38:57] <Jymmm> Z travel 600mm
[21:39:09] <Jymmm> Position accuracy of coordinate: -0.02-+0.02mm
[21:39:12] <les> brbphone
[21:39:19] <Jymmm> Repeatability -0.0125-+0.0125mm
[21:40:05] <Jymmm> robin_z before les so RUDELY =) interupted, did you see the like to what I meant by "suspended" ?
[21:40:11] <Jymmm> s/like/link/
[21:40:18] <robin_z> yes
[21:41:10] <Jymmm> oh you were syaing lost customers
[21:42:41] <robin_z> hey les ...
[21:42:51] <robin_z> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503603687&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[21:42:51] <robin_z> serious beasty
[21:43:49] <robin_z> $7,400 as a no-motors or controller version
[21:44:00] <robin_z> nice
[21:51:24] <robin_z> les: I'll say taiwan, not china
[21:51:52] <Jymmm> robin_z: Do you really think I'd lose that many customers becasue they had to buy a $10 sheet of MDF and drill it themselves instead of paying $150 fot he added shipping?
[21:52:54] <robin_z> yes
[21:53:02] <robin_z> its not the $10
[21:53:12] <robin_z> if they are putting it to gether .. it becomes a Kit
[21:53:18] <robin_z> rather than a working thing
[21:53:44] <Jymmm> So were talking Ikea here
[21:53:52] <robin_z> people who could build the 'kit' could probably build it from scrap printer parts and drawer runners
[21:54:04] <robin_z> not quite
[21:54:20] <robin_z> if the ikea cupboard you boaught had:
[21:54:31] <Jymmm> no, no, no, this is a single piece they buy themselves. There is no way I could ship it completely assembeled
[21:54:39] <robin_z> now go and buy a sheet of 8x4 playwood for the back ..
[21:55:10] <robin_z> I think you need to consider yor market very very carefully
[21:55:17] <robin_z> OK, heres a freebie
[21:55:26] <Jymmm> I'm giving them too much creidt is what it is
[21:55:37] <robin_z> why not
[21:55:46] <robin_z> draw one in 3d
[21:55:49] <robin_z> render it
[21:55:56] <robin_z> put it on ebay at your price
[21:56:01] <robin_z> blah blah blah
[21:56:07] <Jymmm> "Hey save $150 by buying a piece of MDF for $10"
[21:56:11] <robin_z> you can always pull it 1 day before close
[22:07:20] <robin_z> hey les, found em .. :)
[22:08:44] <robin_z> only joking ...
[22:09:02] <gezr> howdy ya'll
[22:09:48] <robin_z> hey
[22:10:46] <Jymmm> Hola gezr
[22:16:27] <les> Sorry long conf call with UI senior mech eng design class
[22:16:36] <les> remember I'm doing that gig
[22:16:43] <robin_z> ah yes
[22:17:16] <les> Engineering students thest days seem...not very knowledgable
[22:17:27] <robin_z> no shit ;)
[22:17:29] <les> I is just me? oldfartitus?
[22:18:21] <les> Should I have to explain a laplace transfort to engineering seniors?
[22:18:30] <les> transform
[22:18:37] <robin_z> nope
[22:18:49] <les> a transfort I would have to explain
[22:18:55] <Jymmm> les: Just to me les, just to me =)
[22:19:02] <les> heh ok
[22:19:24] <robin_z> les: see pm
[22:19:29] <les> anyway those look like the guys...you found 'em I think
[22:19:37] <anonimasu> hm
[22:19:51] <robin_z> yep
[22:19:58] <Jymmm> url?
[22:20:05] <les> it is a slow link
[22:20:54] <robin_z> glacial ...
[22:21:24] <robin_z> go on, we'll give you 24hrs of hunting ;)
[22:22:07] <robin_z> Jymmm: you'll enjoy the education of learnig how to search for stuff ;)
[22:22:29] <Jymmm> nah, not that much of a biggy. Just being nosey
[22:22:43] <les> oh...supported round rails...how poopy
[22:23:01] <robin_z> how cost-effective i think you mean
[22:23:28] <robin_z> I bet version 3 has them underslung ...
[22:23:33] <les> might not want to post url...will be on the phane with them!!!haha
[22:23:39] <les> phone
[22:23:44] <robin_z> then, they are up with the big boys
[22:23:48] <robin_z> yeah :)
[22:24:24] <robin_z> my mate has containeers coming out of china every month,
[22:24:30] <robin_z> I bet I can get one cheap
[22:24:36] <les> yeah
[22:24:56] <les> I have some friends that bring containers in too
[22:25:45] <les> hmmmweb page copyright 2002-2003?
[22:26:02] <robin_z> theyve been around a while then
[22:26:45] <les> but no visibility and seemingly no sales?
[22:26:59] <robin_z> well, we can fix that ;)
[22:27:05] <les> heh
[22:27:22] <les> jymmm is first customer.
[22:27:26] <les> haha
[22:28:02] <Jymmm> les: $99 + free S&H
[22:28:23] <les> I'll make a note of that
[22:28:46] <les> $99 per unit when we make you the US sales rep....
[22:28:47] <les> haw
[22:29:26] <Jymmm> les: deal
[22:29:31] <les> commision
[22:29:41] <les> heh
[22:29:52] <robin_z> to be fair ..
[22:29:52] <Jymmm> les: nope, you said my cost was $99 per unit and free S&H
[22:30:05] <les> oh
[22:30:11] <robin_z> on 99 commission, you could live .. because they will sell FAST
[22:30:23] <robin_z> les: I know whats holding them back
[22:30:30] <robin_z> that guy doesnt have any
[22:30:48] <les> Funny when I am at shows...you should see the crowds around shopbot
[22:30:59] <robin_z> put them at a show, 5k each, have them zipping up and down .. you'd be loading them into trucks
[22:31:03] <les> well he has no inventory
[22:31:07] <les> sure
[22:31:18] <les> 60-90 days...
[22:31:28] <les> they are not even built
[22:31:30] <robin_z> the "we'llget you omne form china is a killer
[22:31:35] <les> ok so they have no money
[22:31:57] <les> yes that in a total sales killer
[22:32:01] <les> I say good
[22:32:06] <les> that is easy to fix
[22:32:13] <robin_z> yep
[22:32:20] <Jymmm> plus the fact that if you need a replacment part, guess where it comes from?
[22:32:37] <robin_z> Jymmm: your local bearing supplier
[22:32:38] <les> yeah
[22:32:55] <Jymmm> you hope; what about if those arms break
[22:33:09] <robin_z> they wont
[22:33:15] <les> but a new machine
[22:33:19] <les> buy
[22:33:37] <les> Yeah they look better engineered than most low end I see
[22:33:39] <robin_z> and if they do, I'll have 20 in the factory in crates .. I'll strip one for parts
[22:33:48] <A-L-P-H-A> are we trying to convince Jymmm of something good, where as he's defending it like it was his first born child?
[22:34:09] <les> No we are trying to convince ourselves
[22:34:15] <Jymmm> robin_z that would work
[22:34:25] <robin_z> hes trying to convinvce himself that a nice router for 4500 dollars is a bad deal ;)
[22:34:48] <A-L-P-H-A> depends.
[22:35:08] <robin_z> A-L-P-H-A: its a VERY nice machine by the look of it ..
[22:35:08] <A-L-P-H-A> how many cheapie 40 dollar routers do you have to go through before you reach $4500?
[22:35:09] <Jymmm> robin_z: Nah, it's the "my money is in china somewhere and can get screwed really easy"
[22:35:20] <robin_z> nah CNC
[22:35:33] <robin_z> 24" x 36" CNC ..
[22:35:36] <robin_z> complete
[22:35:36] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, escrow. Letter of intent to pay (laywer) [but for $4500, not worht it]
[22:35:38] <robin_z> 4k5
[22:35:43] <A-L-P-H-A> letter of credit from the bank.
[22:35:48] <A-L-P-H-A> net 30-90 days.
[22:36:00] <robin_z> A-L-P-H-A: seen the URL?
[22:36:02] <A-L-P-H-A> but most places won't do that for $4500.
[22:36:03] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[22:36:15] <les> only the ebay one please robin
[22:36:36] <A-L-P-H-A> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503603687&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW this?
[22:36:39] <A-L-P-H-A> for $13K?
[22:36:41] <A-L-P-H-A> wtf?
[22:36:43] <robin_z> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503923681&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[22:36:50] <les> but would like ALPHA's opinion
[22:36:54] <robin_z> les: np
[22:37:09] <robin_z> A-L-P-H-A: check them both out
[22:37:25] <robin_z> les: of course only the ebay one ..
[22:37:56] <robin_z> * robin_z taunts Jymmm
[22:38:47] <anonimasu> lol
[22:38:53] <anonimasu> what machine are you talking about?
[22:39:09] <les> scroll back a few lines anon
[22:39:11] <robin_z> anonimasu: see the two ebay urls above
[22:39:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, do a letter of credit. Simple. Money stays in yoru bank account, till it arrives.. it's like COD... and with written confirmation that the unit arrived as described.
[22:39:40] <A-L-P-H-A> 'simple'.
[22:39:56] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm makes everything harder than it has to be.
[22:39:59] <anonimasu> I dont think I have it..
[22:40:09] <robin_z> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503923681&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[22:40:22] <robin_z> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=57122&item=7503603687&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
[22:40:41] <robin_z> yeah
[22:40:43] <les> heh
[22:40:45] <anonimasu> I like the 12k one..
[22:40:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I say, deman paypal... or no go. Even at an additional 2.9%.
[22:40:51] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: So, the bank puts a hold on that amount of funds?
[22:40:58] <robin_z> I like them all :)
[22:41:02] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, google "letter of credit"
[22:41:04] <les> they have no money.
[22:41:15] <A-L-P-H-A> les... I bet I have less money than you! :)
[22:41:18] <anonimasu> hm, why wouldnt letters of credit do?
[22:41:23] <les> hah
[22:42:10] <anonimasu> are there any problem with that?
[22:42:20] <robin_z> so ...
[22:42:23] <robin_z> nice router
[22:42:26] <robin_z> 4k5
[22:42:29] <robin_z> or 12K
[22:42:35] <robin_z> let me check
[22:42:42] <robin_z> yep .. I pay more for parts
[22:42:53] <robin_z> * robin_z hangs up his overalls
[22:43:12] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_z... please.! put your pants back on.
[22:43:25] <robin_z> oops :)
[22:44:08] <A-L-P-H-A> "Allow 60-70 days for shipping" WTF? hahahah. wow. I do believe that that is outside of eBays rules.
[22:44:21] <robin_z> nope ... dont think so
[22:45:07] <robin_z> you can get .cn to .eu in 30 days anyway
[22:45:18] <les> 60-70 days for shipping....I like it...that's good. Very good.
[22:45:19] <robin_z> I should imagine less to the US
[22:46:18] <A-L-P-H-A> les, maybe I've grown accustomed to isntand gratification.
[22:46:25] <robin_z> yeah
[22:46:26] <A-L-P-H-A> instant.
[22:46:37] <robin_z> californication
[22:46:39] <les> That's why I said 60-70 days is good!
[22:46:43] <robin_z> yep
[22:46:50] <robin_z> stack em high ...
[22:46:56] <les> heheh
[22:47:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I liked that song... from red hot chilipeppers.
[22:47:09] <les> I'll be on the phone...
[22:47:17] <A-L-P-H-A> les.... phone sex? bad.
[22:47:25] <les> ha
[22:47:28] <A-L-P-H-A> just pay a hooker... and remember to double glove.
[22:47:38] <robin_z> ok, I tried them ...
[22:47:41] <robin_z> they said:
[22:47:46] <les> yes sir I will remember
[22:47:54] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_z... that was wrong.
[22:47:56] <A-L-P-H-A> you walked into that.
[22:48:02] <robin_z> howow ching show shinn sheng doughy?
[22:48:22] <les> ahem. HUH?
[22:48:27] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_z?
[22:48:47] <Jymmm> alright, can't find it. url?
[22:48:49] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... new channel rule. No one give robin_z any more drugs. he's cut off.
[22:48:54] <robin_z> nah the shanghai outfit
[22:49:14] <robin_z> mmm ... droooogs
[22:49:18] <les> Off hors right now...
[22:49:19] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A it's not too mant, it's not enough
[22:49:22] <les> hours
[22:49:35] <robin_z> yeah
[22:49:42] <A-L-P-H-A> mant?
[22:49:45] <robin_z> well, looks like it might fly
[22:49:47] <les> got mandarin answering machine message?
[22:49:49] <Jymmm> many
[22:50:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I understand, English, Cantonese, French, and Manderin.
[22:50:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Taiwanese if you really want to strech my knowledge of Mandarin.
[22:50:58] <robin_z> ok, hes our shipping agent ;)
[22:51:06] <les> heh
[22:51:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I could understand Hakka if they spoke slow.
[22:51:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I charge 10% of the value of the shipment, sans shipping charges.
[22:51:49] <les> I figure It's about 6 am over there now
[22:51:53] <les> call later.
[22:52:05] <A-L-P-H-A> in HK, it's 6am I believe.
[22:52:38] <les> close enough
[22:53:21] <A-L-P-H-A> but HK doesn't partake in the stupid Daylight savings crap.
[22:53:49] <anonimasu> heh
[22:53:56] <A-L-P-H-A> really really stupid idea, that daylight savings crap.
[22:54:13] <A-L-P-H-A> made sense for the war, but not NOW.
[23:13:20] <les> I do not like daylight savings time
[23:13:47] <robin_z> I do not like green eggs and ham
[23:14:15] <robin_z> http://www.waterloowood.com/shop2.shtml
[23:14:22] <robin_z> nice router
[23:14:32] <robin_z> and nice panel gluing plant
[23:15:06] <les> hmmm
[23:15:24] <les> Iwas on the phone with turkey call company
[23:15:35] <robin_z> <sqqquuuuuuwwwwk>
[23:15:57] <robin_z> or is it <gobble> ?
[23:16:11] <robin_z> here is wisdom:
[23:16:38] <robin_z> any bird that spend its entire year going "gobble gobble gobble" deserves to get stuffed at Christmas
[23:16:39] <les> I told them I have covered the whole market...beat the artisans with the custom stuff, beat the standard stuff, and beat the low end stuff with compression molded hydrograhic part
[23:16:55] <les> I told them I would turn then into the borg
[23:17:04] <robin_z> uh huh
[23:17:11] <les> they can just take the market
[23:17:14] <les> all of it.
[23:17:26] <les> They liked the sound of that
[23:17:31] <robin_z> :)
[23:18:49] <les> we will have some meetings.
[23:18:49] <robin_z> im sure ..
[23:18:49] <anonimasu> :D
[23:18:49] <anonimasu> les: nice
[23:18:49] <anonimasu> !
[23:18:49] <robin_z> you'll need what we call "employees"
[23:18:49] <les> I am just doing what I learned...I am from ITW
[23:18:49] <les> When we decided to do welding what did we do?
[23:20:04] <les> Bought Miller and Hobart
[23:20:05] <anonimasu> LOL
[23:20:05] <les> when we decided to do finishing...
[23:20:05] <anonimasu> gotta love that buisness practice..
[23:20:05] <les> we bought Devilbiss, Binks, , ransburg, and gema.
[23:20:51] <les> Now I am trying to do what I learned as a corporate manager there for ME a little
[23:20:59] <les> we'll see what happens
[23:21:35] <anonimasu> hm, just dont try and buy miller to weld some stuff :p
[23:21:38] <anonimasu> *grins*
[23:21:44] <les> heh
[23:22:11] <robin_z> I have a Miller Syncrowave TIG .. very nice ...
[23:22:31] <les> I was often sent in before an aquisition to write up reports on technical capabilities etc
[23:22:39] <robin_z> right
[23:22:48] <les> I did that in the Miler deal
[23:22:56] <les> Miller
[23:22:59] <les> heh
[23:23:02] <anonimasu> * anonimasu likes welding tig
[23:23:06] <anonimasu> too bad I suck at it :)
[23:23:12] <les> tig is good.
[23:23:21] <robin_z> ask a few difficult questions, see if they have answers or just "well we keep bolitng bigger ones on until the flames die down" type things
[23:23:27] <les> tig is for robots and cnc.
[23:24:13] <robin_z> cnc mig is interesting ...
[23:24:13] <robin_z> according to Alex ..
[23:24:15] <les> yeah
[23:24:28] <robin_z> you can track the seam by monitoring volts and curret as you weave
[23:24:36] <anonimasu> :)
[23:24:36] <les> we call it "GMAW" these days...
[23:24:45] <robin_z> yeah yeah
[23:24:49] <les> ACTUALLY I call it MIG
[23:24:53] <anonimasu> yep..
[23:24:53] <les> heh
[23:25:04] <les> buzz words...
[23:25:04] <anonimasu> well I dont really care for robot welding since I have no use for it..
[23:25:15] <robin_z> right bedtime
[23:25:20] <anonimasu> I want a robot to play with togther with my mill ;)
[23:25:22] <les> ha good night
[23:25:28] <Jymmm> If you speak my name, I will no longer exist. What am I?
[23:25:38] <les> um...
[23:26:25] <gezr> les : can tig be used to weld say 1/2inch plate together ?
[23:26:30] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:26:34] <anonimasu> um not that my name is les
[23:26:35] <anonimasu> :p
[23:26:49] <les> Tig is best for thinner sheets
[23:27:03] <gezr> yeah I know that, but where does it become extended
[23:27:08] <anonimasu> if you have enough amperage you can do that..
[23:27:17] <les> yeah
[23:27:36] <les> personally I would go MIG for 1/2 plate
[23:27:40] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:27:48] <gezr> tig tends to be extremely localized heat, I guess you would need a gigantic set up
[23:27:52] <gezr> I was just wondering
[23:27:59] <anonimasu> the filler rods would be huge :D
[23:28:06] <les> yup
[23:28:27] <anonimasu> are we talking alu?
[23:28:36] <robin_z> right
[23:28:39] <robin_z> BEDTIME
[23:28:40] <gezr> see im skerwed in terms of large or thick plates at home, I guess in most homes
[23:28:43] <les> I was thinking steel
[23:29:11] <gezr> yeah steel
[23:29:18] <anonimasu> I was thinking alu..
[23:29:32] <anonimasu> you need less amperage when welding steel then alu..
[23:29:33] <les> paul quit? that's unusual
[23:29:46] <anonimasu> alu requires loads :)
[23:29:48] <les> he never sleeps...
[23:29:56] <gezr> a good sized stick welder with a tig atatchment would probably suit a home much better I bet
[23:30:11] <anonimasu> oh, a mig is better unless you plan to weld alu..
[23:30:15] <anonimasu> then you will need a AC tig...
[23:30:25] <les> MIG is so easy...
[23:30:26] <gezr> mig has limitations as well
[23:30:34] <les> some
[23:30:46] <gezr> its hot glue, but I dont have the ability to run a big power supply
[23:30:59] <anonimasu> there was some talk at cnczone about welding alu as DC
[23:31:12] <gezr> ive done alu with stick, its ugly but works
[23:31:15] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:31:26] <anonimasu> but I doubt how good the quality of the welds get..
[23:31:34] <les> I got some pure argon gass for AL but just have not messed with it
[23:31:43] <les> I use tri-mix on steel
[23:31:53] <gezr> all im saying, is to be able to do all sorts of welds, I would be better off with a multi powersource, to use as stick or tig
[23:32:05] <anonimasu> I'd buy a miller unit..
[23:32:13] <anonimasu> the smallest one possible with AC
[23:32:17] <les> Miller is good
[23:32:20] <les> but $$
[23:32:25] <Jymmm> Anyone know the difference between fixed, floating, and loaded bearing?
[23:32:30] <anonimasu> I like the oerlikon at work.. :)
[23:32:30] <gezr> and yes a mig if I was having to put lots and lots of metal into a joint
[23:32:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:32:37] <anonimasu> mig/stick
[23:32:41] <anonimasu> mig is easier to learn..
[23:32:47] <les> Our Hobart handler is also a very good small MIG unit
[23:33:05] <gezr> thats just it, I want to have at least 200amps output at my fingertips
[23:33:13] <anonimasu> we have a flux core (pipe)mig at work..
[23:33:17] <les> $$
[23:33:31] <anonimasu> it's nice for welding really thick stuff..
[23:33:33] <gezr> we do all sorts of welding
[23:41:18] <anonimasu> well if you do limited welding in loads of material a tig/stick machine would be the best..
[23:41:18] <gezr> flux core with a tri-gas(cold gas) makes for beautiful welds
[23:41:18] <les> I did some of the data aq for the Hobart fluxcore line
[23:41:18] <anonimasu> but if speed is a issue a mig is far better.
[23:41:18] <gezr> we use a hobart wire with a hobart welder for spray arcing, thats way cool
[23:41:18] <anonimasu> but if you are going to change materials often, it'll be trouble with a mig..
[23:41:18] <gezr> thats why stick, less combersome to use at home
[23:41:18] <gezr> can use a more forgiving rod more quickly then a wire spool chage
[23:41:18] <gezr> I was just wondering
[23:41:18] <les> We have a Semi truck with a welding school that drives all over the country
[23:41:18] <anonimasu> :)
[23:41:18] <gezr> that has to be cool
[23:41:18] <gezr> am i wrong to say that one of the better places to go to welding school is the tulsa school in tulsa oklahoma?
[23:41:18] <Jymmm> les: Since you work with wood so much, I meant to ask you. Have you used/tried polymer glues (aka Gorilla glue) ?
[23:41:18] <les> yes
[23:41:18] <les> a lot
[23:41:18] <Jymmm> les do you use them over standard wood glue for anythign in particular?
[23:41:18] <les> moisture cure urethane
[23:41:18] <les> yes
[23:41:18] <pfred1> next bottle i get I'll try storing it upside down like i read about
[23:41:18] <les> Best attribute is long open time.... we use it to do things like butcher block where it takes a while to lay out the pieces and clamp them up
[23:41:18] <pfred1> I'm tired of making skateboard wheels
[23:41:18] <les> yes upside down
[23:41:18] <les> in refrigerator
[23:41:18] <pfred1> at $8 a pop!
[23:41:18] <anonimasu> night everyone
[23:41:18] <Jymmm> I'll rememrb the frig part
[23:41:18] <Jymmm> G'Night anonimasu
[23:41:18] <les> night anaon
[23:41:18] <pfred1> really I never cared for it the foaming is well I'm not too keen on it
[23:41:19] <les> you can wipe it off with mineral spirits before it cures
[23:41:29] <pfred1> ah I always scrape it with a chisel
[23:41:36] <pfred1> pain in the ass
[23:41:42] <les> that works too!
[23:42:29] <pfred1> next i want to try Titebond III
[23:42:29] <pfred1> I really like Titebond II
[23:42:29] <les> I use tightbond II a lot
[23:42:29] <les> have not tried III
[23:42:29] <pfred1> yeah it's what I am using now
[23:42:30] <pfred1> the 2
[23:42:45] <pfred1> supposedly the 3 is the best thing since sliced bread or so they say ...
[23:43:07] <les> yeah I need to get some and mess with it
[23:43:19] <pfred1> I think it's fully waterproof
[23:43:25] <pfred1> which is the big difference
[23:43:28] <les> tightbond II is weaker than original
[23:43:34] <les> but it has it's uses
[23:43:46] <pfred1> well I like it better than elmer's
[23:44:08] <pfred1> tho the elmer's probond is OK
[23:44:10] <les> They are all crosslinking poly vinyl acetates
[23:44:19] <les> II and III
[23:44:35] <pfred1> all i know is the stuff is stronger than wood if it's a good joint
[23:44:42] <les> yes
[23:44:52] <pfred1> and that's good enough for me!
[23:45:09] <Jymmm> so would the poly's be better for laminating like 3/4" MDF together?
[23:45:25] <les> Tightbond II has a minor problem with softening by nitro lacquer
[23:45:28] <pfred1> Jymmm why not just buy thicker MDF?
[23:45:48] <Jymmm> pfred1 cost, weight, storage, etc
[23:46:02] <les> I would suggest amino for laminating mdf
[23:46:03] <Jymmm> availability
[23:46:13] <les> AKA plasic resin glue
[23:46:23] <les> the powder you mix with water
[23:46:32] <Jymmm> never heard of it
[23:46:43] <les> since that is the binder for MDF anyway