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[00:02:41] <les> alex link is:
[00:02:44] <les> V
[00:02:49] <les> oops haha
[00:02:52] <les> http://digital.lib.msu.edu/collections/index.cfm?CollectionID=10
[00:02:56] <pfred1> yes
[00:03:04] <les> now the control key is failing
[00:03:26] <pfred1> man # Modern Machine Shop Practice Vol. 2 By Rose, Joshua the engravings are so nice
[00:03:33] <les> yeah
[00:03:41] <pfred1> I want to print some out with my laser and hang them up
[00:04:03] <les> They had most things figured out then...just poor materials
[00:04:16] <les> material science lagged a bit I guess
[00:04:23] <pfred1> in volume 1 when they talk about measuring standards
[00:05:11] <les> imagine all those lathe bits, drills, etc were just carbon steel
[00:05:15] <les> worked iguess
[00:05:20] <les> if you go real slow
[00:05:33] <pfred1> they talk of pretty heavy cuts just really low speeds
[00:05:46] <les> yeah
[00:06:09] <pfred1> that and not getting much otu of a tool before resharpening it
[00:06:11] <les> carbon steel goes to hell at about 400f
[00:07:02] <pfred1> I also found some neat videos a college has on the web about their machine shop
[00:07:05] <alex_joni> can you post it?
[00:07:08] <les> gets sft, gerts duller, gets hotter, gets softer etc
[00:07:22] <les> bluh
[00:07:53] <pfred1> yeah a lot of the trick of hss is to heat up the work so it butters I guess
[00:08:37] <les> that tandem ballscrew cam matching trick I used on my cnc was from 1820.
[00:10:44] <les> yeah getting the work hot and soft works...
[00:11:01] <pfred1> they talk about holding an iron bar in their hands and being able to measure the expansion of it
[00:11:02] <les> unless it is a precipitation hardening material
[00:11:37] <les> the first screw cutting lathe had .0001" graduations on the dials
[00:12:22] <pfred1> they show a bunch of contraptions they came up with for dividing
[00:12:52] <pfred1> one guy tested his gizmo out like 300 times or somehting silly like that
[00:13:09] <pfred1> and i thought i had no social life!
[00:24:19] <alex_joni> night guys
[00:24:24] <pfred1> nite
[00:31:46] <alex_joni> are you guys familiar with OL notations?
[00:31:52] <alex_joni> like: OL 52.4K ?
[00:32:32] <pfred1> <ol> ordered list?
[00:32:41] <alex_joni> OL steel
[00:32:47] <pfred1> oh
[00:42:50] <alex_joni> no luck?
[00:47:50] <gezr> O1 you mean oh one?
[00:48:16] <alex_joni> OL (oh ell)
[00:48:31] <gezr> negative ghost rider
[00:48:32] <pfred1> oh hell!
[00:48:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ghost rider? is that a spin off of speed racer?
[00:49:16] <gezr> cant be sure where I heard it
[00:49:46] <gezr> sg1 season final is on now :)
[00:50:02] <alex_joni> atlantis?
[00:50:13] <gezr> in an dhour its final is on
[00:50:44] <pfred1> I can't find anyone in the cast of SG1 to be engaging enough to really hold my interest with the show
[00:52:50] <robin_z> SG1?
[00:53:07] <alex_joni> stargate
[00:53:09] <gezr> I will admit, the current continuation of last weeks show is not making me happy, I dont like time travel with a true intrest in keeping a time line intact
[00:53:25] <pfred1> I am a total X-Files addict though
[00:53:32] <gezr> x-files dominates
[00:53:40] <alex_joni> robin: what steel type notations do you know of?
[00:53:43] <pfred1> gilian rules!
[00:53:46] <robin_z> now I remember why I dumped the TV
[00:53:55] <gezr> I dont know if its the show or yeah, :), gilian
[00:53:59] <robin_z> alex_joni: HR4
[00:54:06] <robin_z> alex_joni: EN37B
[00:54:17] <pfred1> yeah gillianless episodes hold far less interest for me
[00:54:42] <gezr> alex_joni : if you see an O followed by something its an oil hardening type, if its really an L then Ive never heard of it
[00:54:50] <robin_z> * robin_z continues advertising in unlikely places for a CNC cutting shop manager
[00:54:54] <pfred1> gezr if you like redheads watch mythbusters they got a sweet one on there!
[00:55:03] <alex_joni> gezr: it's a .ro notation
[00:55:05] <gezr> pfred1 : I know :)
[00:55:11] <gezr> alex_joni : then its probably 01
[00:55:24] <pfred1> man she could have her own show if it wasn't for her
[00:55:29] <gezr> alex_joni : the numbers that follow it probably represent the tensil strength
[00:55:45] <pfred1> her and adam get rid of sourpuss jamie
[00:59:10] <gezr> alex_joni : I didnt find any other documentation in my book reguarding ol
[00:59:37] <alex_joni> gezr: bummer
[00:59:44] <gezr> alex_joni : its o1 though
[01:00:07] <alex_joni> that can be.. but this is definately OL (capital letters)
[01:00:15] <gezr> alex_joni : do you have anyother designations or just that one?
[01:00:22] <robin_z> alex_joni: I think OL37.2K is equiv to St37.2 in german steel grades
[01:00:46] <robin_z> alex_joni: yep OL is the grade term I found
[01:00:48] <gezr> yeah, thats may be it, i was looking for tensile
[01:00:58] <robin_z> STRIP STEEL 12 X 5 OL 37 2K
[01:01:02] <robin_z> for example
[01:01:28] <alex_joni> yeah that's it
[01:01:39] <alex_joni> but I have OL 52 4K
[01:02:30] <pfred1> 52K PSI sounds about right for steel
[01:03:00] <robin_z> unlikly to be pounds
[01:03:13] <robin_z> VERY unlikely
[01:03:14] <alex_joni> right
[01:03:41] <pfred1> well that's how it's rated here
[01:03:41] <robin_z> kPa I expect
[01:04:12] <pfred1> how much is a KPa?
[01:04:14] <robin_z> pfred1: no one other than the USA uses pounds, in eu, we did in the UK, but stopped over 30 years ago now
[01:04:39] <robin_z> non of the rest of europe used pounds
[01:04:47] <robin_z> save the french, in the 18th century
[01:04:52] <pfred1> robin_z we tried back in the 70's it didn't go over very big
[01:05:02] <pfred1> it lasted about a week and a half as i cna recall
[01:05:23] <pfred1> no one wanted to buy gas by the liter!
[01:05:29] <alex_joni> I think it's 52 kN/mm^2
[01:05:30] <pfred1> I man no one
[01:05:34] <pfred1> mean even
[01:05:46] <pfred1> that's what did in metric here
[01:05:51] <robin_z> shrug
[01:06:07] <pfred1> it was a catrostrophe
[01:06:18] <robin_z> no
[01:06:35] <pfred1> I remember htey tried to teach it to us in schools
[01:06:41] <robin_z> smacking that lander into mars because you thought the distance was in yards not meters
[01:06:47] <robin_z> that was a catastoprhe
[01:06:48] <gezr> 52kPa is th eproper meteric version
[01:06:58] <pfred1> heck evne the teachers were a little relieved when it got deep 6ed
[01:07:18] <robin_z> shrug
[01:07:24] <robin_z> it so easy though ...
[01:07:24] <pfred1> robin_z yeah but how many others did we land?
[01:07:31] <pfred1> robin_z and how many have you landed?
[01:07:38] <pfred1> 0
[01:07:38] <robin_z> we landed one
[01:07:47] <alex_joni> robin: I think OL 52 is ST 350
[01:07:49] <pfred1> yeah too bad it never sent back any data
[01:07:57] <alex_joni> but I gotta check that
[01:08:01] <robin_z> maybe it did ...
[01:08:15] <pfred1> our two rovers are still going strong!
[01:08:24] <robin_z> really?
[01:08:25] <pfred1> mile after mile
[01:08:40] <robin_z> * robin_z has seen capricorn1
[01:08:48] <pfred1> yup last i heard one got hit by a sandstorm it doubled it's energy
[01:09:48] <pfred1> I got a ride on a lunar rover once
[01:10:12] <pfred1> well the Earth mockup of it
[01:10:38] <robin_z> you mean the onethey used in the "landing" shots?
[01:11:21] <pfred1> I also watched the first landing live on TV
[01:11:34] <pfred1> showing my age a little on that one i guess
[01:11:49] <pfred1> robin_z you ever seen a Saturn V ?
[01:11:59] <pfred1> trust me they actually went there!
[01:11:59] <gezr> wait, we went to the moon?
[01:12:30] <pfred1> gezr yeah we found out that all we really need to do is go to Arizona
[01:13:21] <gezr> pfred1 : thats where we meet the aliens, who told us never to go back to the moon once the current project was finished, and that they would get us
[01:13:39] <pfred1> with the last lunar mission in what was it 72 most kids today heck they were never alive when that stuff was going on
[01:13:51] <gezr> getting up just in time to catch some of late night coast to coast on the radio is just nust
[01:14:25] <gezr> Im a shuttle baby, I was in middle school I think watching the launch that didnt go so well
[01:14:36] <pfred1> personally I feel that all manned space missions are nothing more than dog and pony shows
[01:15:06] <gezr> yeah zero excitement for me as well
[01:15:15] <pfred1> doesn't seem like humans really contribute much if any real science to the program
[01:15:18] <les> heh just walked back in to the office for a bit
[01:15:23] <les> shuttle?
[01:15:31] <gezr> les and I were talking about this stuff the other night
[01:15:34] <les> I worked on that in scool.
[01:15:39] <les> school.
[01:16:08] <les> silly vehicle really.
[01:16:13] <pfred1> the shuttle?
[01:16:24] <pfred1> it's the Edsel of the skies!
[01:16:37] <les> 1:50 chance of nor coming back if you take a ride.
[01:16:40] <les> not
[01:16:51] <robin_z> http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm
[01:16:54] <pfred1> no it's actually got a worse service record than that now
[01:16:58] <pfred1> 1 in 24
[01:17:23] <pfred1> the last blow up set it back t o1 in 24
[01:17:24] <gezr> les : cant we load one up with terminal type persons, and send em to mars?
[01:17:45] <les> heh
[01:18:05] <les> I just worked on the fuel tank
[01:18:07] <gezr> acording to I think the new york times, starvation is a good way to die
[01:18:08] <les> that's all
[01:18:17] <les> and not the foam thank you
[01:18:43] <robin_z> the list of 9 oddities is "interesting"
[01:18:53] <gezr> oh, I did have a good day at werk today :)
[01:19:06] <les> good
[01:19:34] <les> even thoughthey wouldn't let you make youe welding thing?
[01:20:07] <gezr> thats just a side road, I will get that in time :)
[01:20:13] <les> heh
[01:20:27] <gezr> I have to ask for things in small steps
[01:20:36] <alex_joni> gezr: what welding thing?
[01:20:45] <gezr> a single axis motion table
[01:21:13] <gezr> OH I got to try out spray arcing today, its really cool, my bead looked like ass but its still a neat way to weld
[01:21:24] <gezr> super hot too
[01:21:32] <alex_joni> heh... you need to try pulsed welding
[01:21:42] <alex_joni> the rest is just playstuff
[01:21:42] <les> I can only do drip here
[01:22:17] <gezr> we do normal mig, spray arc mig, submerged arc mig
[01:22:25] <les> not enough current for spray.
[01:23:54] <gezr> oh sweet they are tying the show together :)
[01:24:54] <les> ??
[01:25:00] <gezr> stargate sg1
[01:25:02] <les> i missed something
[01:25:07] <les> oh
[01:25:23] <les> I was listening to sat music
[01:25:51] <Jymmm> les : Lil Green Men ?
[01:26:02] <les> uh
[01:26:26] <les> tambura and ocean from 22,000 miles in space
[01:26:31] <pfred1> les you ever like to read?
[01:26:39] <les> yeah
[01:26:47] <les> mostly tech stuff
[01:26:55] <pfred1> les try to find a book called His master's Voice by Stanislaw Lem
[01:27:02] <pfred1> I think you'd enjoy it
[01:27:12] <les> hmmm about sound?
[01:27:16] <gezr> les : you mount a humbucker in your sitar yet?
[01:27:20] <pfred1> heh it'll blow your mind
[01:27:23] <les> ha no
[01:27:26] <gezr> hahahaha
[01:27:46] <les> but I was an audio r&d engineer once
[01:28:04] <les> first job out of school.
[01:28:07] <gezr> les : I did hear that in some countries, it was accually scaled down to be hidden under a coat or jacket, maybe im thinking of another instrument, but the size smalling was mainly done in middleeastern nations
[01:28:09] <pfred1> les it starts out with these guys selling "random data" to the financial industry that they're getting off radio telescopes then someone detects a pattern in it it's not as random as it was supposed to be
[01:28:41] <les> oh I do the seti thing
[01:28:50] <pfred1> the rest of the book goes into trying to figure out what the pattern is where it comes form what it means etc
[01:28:52] <Jymmm> les : Lil Green Men ?
[01:28:54] <gezr> I used to do it
[01:28:55] <Jymmm> =)
[01:29:01] <les> process data for seti
[01:29:26] <Jymmm> Idle cpu time should ALWAYS be used for crypto =)
[01:29:34] <les> yeah
[01:29:46] <pfred1> Jymmm cypherpunk are you?
[01:29:58] <les> if the machine is on and I am not here...they can have it
[01:30:09] <Jymmm> pfred1 oh please, way beyonf that
[01:30:12] <gezr> my thoughts as far as aliens go, is really simple, either they know were here and they have made contact to a few, and thats pretty much it, or they are leaving us alone completely, or they just dont know
[01:30:24] <les> I do mars crater claassification too
[01:30:34] <pfred1> intelligence isn't a survival trait
[01:30:35] <gezr> cause if it was anything else, we would have been dominated
[01:30:49] <Jymmm> aliens exist, just smart enough to try and avoid us
[01:30:53] <pfred1> anything advanced to travel through interstellar space has already blown itself up
[01:30:54] <les> pfred: right
[01:31:15] <pfred1> we're well on our way
[01:31:42] <pfred1> oh look we created a labrotory black hole how neeeee aaaaa tttttt ...
[01:31:48] <les> odds are they would be a couple hundred LY out anyway
[01:32:01] <les> too far for twoway coms
[01:32:12] <robin_z> really?
[01:32:18] <Jymmm> Do you ppl REALLY believe ligtht is the fastest thing?
[01:32:22] <les> or purposeful signals
[01:32:30] <pfred1> the nearest star is 4 light years away and there ain't jack there
[01:32:53] <pfred1> IRC is maddening with ping times of over 30 seconds
[01:32:54] <les> jymmm: there is no limit to apparent speed
[01:33:13] <pfred1> les you hear about the german guy that's sending data faster than light?
[01:33:24] <les> yeah
[01:33:26] <pfred1> heh
[01:33:35] <pfred1> I saw him that's freaky!
[01:33:35] <les> that's group velocity
[01:33:36] <gezr> pushing the data infront of a light beam?
[01:33:53] <pfred1> les Piers Anthony Macroscope
[01:34:07] <robin_z> * robin_z passes les on of a pair of entangled photons
[01:34:12] <pfred1> I think he does it with some sort of quantum deal
[01:34:18] <les> heh
[01:34:37] <les> going faster than group velocity is no big deal
[01:34:55] <pfred1> like Jonh Force says second place is just the first loser
[01:35:05] <les> it's phase velocity that you cannot exceed
[01:35:28] <robin_z> photon entanglment is interestign, it can be instant ... and they mean it.
[01:35:53] <les> group velocity in a Bose -Einstein concentrate is only a few cm/sec
[01:37:06] <les> condensate
[01:37:13] <les> not concentrate
[01:37:31] <pfred1> what blows me out is the effort we put forth to make the first atomic bombs
[01:37:46] <gezr> we wernt the only ones working on it
[01:38:04] <pfred1> the scale of the project was enormous
[01:38:24] <pfred1> they were sucking back 10% of the entire electrical output of the country's electrical grid!
[01:38:25] <les> heisenburg in germany gave uppretty quick
[01:38:44] <les> STALIN HAD SOM ESPIES
[01:38:53] <pfred1> it was probably the most mammoth human undertaking of all time
[01:38:54] <les> stuck again
[01:38:58] <gezr> caps and shift are failing
[01:39:03] <gezr> or space
[01:39:14] <gezr> shift almost lost its f and that would have been a mess
[01:39:26] <les> totally failing...remember I am doing a product test here
[01:39:32] <pfred1> throw your keyboard into the dishwasher
[01:39:47] <pfred1> just dry it well before plugging it back in :)
[01:39:49] <les> I have a case of them to test
[01:40:05] <les> this is number 2 after less than one month
[01:40:16] <les> things aren't looking good
[01:40:22] <pfred1> when I worked at a place that made PCBs the first time the guy had me load the boards into a dishwasher I thought he was pulling my leg!
[01:40:36] <pfred1> we used a Whirlpool he swire by them!
[01:40:42] <pfred1> swore even
[01:41:00] <pfred1> water soluable flux it's how we cleaned the boards after we wave soldered them
[01:41:39] <les> We used a washing machine to get mold release off of throttle position sensor substrates for gm
[01:41:46] <robin_z> yeah, thats pretty standard
[01:41:49] <pfred1> we made all the PCBs for the gas pumps so you've probbaly used a dishwashed board already
[01:41:59] <les> haha
[01:42:10] <robin_z> normally they use a special celaning addition,
[01:42:18] <robin_z> not regular washer tablets
[01:42:25] <pfred1> I think we used regular soap can't remember though
[01:42:31] <robin_z> no
[01:42:41] <robin_z> you most certainly didnt use normal soap
[01:42:44] <pfred1> this guy did not have a clue about electronics
[01:42:51] <pfred1> not a freaking clue!
[01:42:55] <pfred1> hell of a business man htough
[01:42:59] <robin_z> have you ever put soap on a dishwasher?
[01:43:00] <les> I used tritonx-100 wetting agent as I recall
[01:43:12] <les> surprised I remember that
[01:43:15] <pfred1> Bruce
[01:43:33] <pfred1> we made beautiful boards
[01:43:40] <robin_z> we put a squirt of washing-up liquid in the diswasher once ...
[01:43:41] <pfred1> god knows if any of them worked
[01:43:44] <robin_z> what a mess.
[01:44:09] <robin_z> bubbles everywhaere ..
[01:44:12] <pfred1> yeah knowing him he was too cheap to put anything else into the machine
[01:44:14] <robin_z> out of the top
[01:44:21] <robin_z> out of the sides ..
[01:44:22] <les> tritonx is an anionic surfactant
[01:44:32] <robin_z> water wetter!
[01:44:36] <pfred1> les sounds like it costs money
[01:44:39] <les> yeah
[01:44:45] <pfred1> yeah forget that!
[01:44:53] <les> well hydrogrn bond stopper
[01:45:03] <les> hydrogen
[01:45:12] <pfred1> when he went over to water soluable hand soldering flux he did give me al lthe old solder spools
[01:45:30] <robin_z> les: I have wased various bits of coke-filled braodcast kit up to �20k in the shower ....
[01:45:34] <pfred1> his reasoning was "if it's around i know myself and I'll use it so I'd better get rod of it now"
[01:45:50] <pfred1> so I got I don't know how many pounds then
[01:45:52] <les> coke sure kills tronics
[01:45:59] <robin_z> yep
[01:46:06] <robin_z> and sugar/coffee
[01:46:06] <pfred1> you should be able to wash it out though
[01:46:10] <robin_z> yep
[01:46:15] <les> phosphoric acid I guess
[01:46:21] <robin_z> straight into the sink or shower with it
[01:46:44] <les> heh
[01:46:47] <robin_z> right bedtime
[01:47:02] <robin_z> see you guys later.
[01:47:04] <les> yeah and I am going back to the music room
[01:47:09] <pfred1> man we'd clear it with the customers what wasn't hermetically sealed
[01:47:21] <pfred1> the rest right into the dishwasher
[01:47:26] <les> cool
[01:47:45] <pfred1> even electrylytic caps seem to hold up OK
[01:48:23] <les> When I listen to sat music I think they have upped the lossy compression factor
[01:48:37] <les> I don't like how it is sounding lately
[01:48:48] <pfred1> how many kb/s ?
[01:48:55] <les> who knows
[01:49:06] <les> less and less I suspect
[01:49:07] <pfred1> your app doesn't tell you?
[01:49:27] <les> nope just a direct tv box
[01:49:31] <pfred1> vbr is cool
[01:49:38] <pfred1> variable bit rate
[01:49:40] <les> who knows what it is doing
[01:49:52] <les> I know prop delay is long
[01:49:57] <les> several seconds
[01:50:00] <pfred1> I got a stream capture app laying around someplace
[01:50:11] <pfred1> anything that streams in it can save to a file
[01:50:14] <pfred1> sorta neat
[01:50:20] <les> I MIGHT SWITCH TO CD
[01:50:25] <les> stuck
[01:50:29] <pfred1> so yo ucna listen to net radio and end up with MP3s!
[01:50:45] <pfred1> who needs Napster anyways?
[01:51:06] <les> sat radio is starting tosound like MP3
[01:51:22] <pfred1> which do you have?
[01:51:38] <pfred1> when i make MP3s I try to keep the bitrate pretty high
[01:51:45] <pfred1> like 256K or so
[01:52:01] <les> well I don't do MP# although last time my son was here we did some comparisons
[01:52:13] <pfred1> there's switches i can feed to the app makes them come out pretty good to me
[01:52:21] <les> we compared raw to 256k
[01:52:49] <pfred1> 128 does sound like it's coming down a string phone to me
[01:53:01] <les> My son loves MP3
[01:53:13] <pfred1> heck yeah it's way better than get up change the record
[01:53:19] <les> after a while he was not satisfied with even 256
[01:53:20] <pfred1> click and go!
[01:53:34] <pfred1> has he tried ogg ?
[01:53:39] <les> sure
[01:53:43] <pfred1> ogg vbr is pretty wild
[01:53:56] <pfred1> to me it's very airy sounding
[01:54:05] <pfred1> layered
[01:54:27] <les> well anyway being a former audio r&d engineer...
[01:54:38] <pfred1> yeah you know it's not all there
[01:54:43] <les> I am not tooo crazy about lossy compression
[01:54:46] <pfred1> but well
[01:55:29] <les> hey with no loss you could put a cd on something the size of a quarter now anyway
[01:55:43] <pfred1> CDs are lossy
[01:55:49] <pfred1> they'
[01:56:01] <pfred1> they're only what 44100 KHz ?
[01:56:06] <les> they have their lmits sure
[01:56:26] <pfred1> beetovheen's 5th isn't it?
[01:56:53] <pfred1> wasn't that what had to fit on a disc?
[01:56:56] <les> with noise shaping about 120 dba dynamic range and 22k
[01:57:28] <les> but no home system can even do 120 dynamic range
[01:57:32] <les> or even close
[01:57:35] <pfred1> heh
[01:57:48] <pfred1> maybe it's the clicks and pops that i miss sometimes?
[01:58:07] <les> by the way a hand clap at one meter is about 120 dba.
[01:58:08] <pfred1> I hooked up my turntable a little while ago and was amazed
[01:58:21] <les> heh
[01:58:25] <pfred1> to me it was liek rediscovering it
[01:58:33] <les> you know I designed that stuff
[01:58:47] <les> Shure brothers
[01:59:00] <pfred1> I have an Ortofon cartrige
[01:59:11] <les> ah the comprtition
[01:59:13] <les> haha
[01:59:40] <les> I did the Shure ML series beryllium shank
[01:59:51] <les> a long time ago
[02:00:01] <pfred1> I remember them
[02:00:17] <les> like I said...first job out of engineering school
[02:00:31] <pfred1> I have a really low mass turntable arm so I wanted somehting light
[02:00:46] <pfred1> to follow all the whips and warps!
[02:00:48] <les> not very hard...audio is usually about 20 years behind other stuff
[02:01:26] <pfred1> I'm more than a little miffed about the whole recording industry though
[02:01:31] <les> We used all thorens and sme in the labs at shure
[02:01:47] <pfred1> I mean they ripped everyone off for years but look how much they cried and what did they really lose?
[02:01:54] <les> yeah
[02:02:21] <pfred1> the MP3s people download i mean if they were going to go out and buy the stuff they would have
[02:02:28] <pfred1> being as they didn't
[02:02:49] <pfred1> I got MP3s I'd have NEVER gone out and given you a single red cent for
[02:03:03] <pfred1> so how did they lose anything?
[02:03:26] <pfred1> heck I used to grab MP3s whenever I read about the nonsense that was going on just ot make myself feel better
[02:04:14] <les> I spent most of my work days then doing things like double blind listening tests
[02:04:31] <pfred1> that only works early in the morning
[02:04:36] <pfred1> before your ears get burnt
[02:04:51] <pfred1> the rest of the day I donno
[02:04:52] <les> The VP liked for us to test the products with opera
[02:04:56] <les> Wagner
[02:05:01] <pfred1> I like Wagner
[02:05:05] <les> but as soon as he left...
[02:05:09] <les> steely dan
[02:05:10] <les> haha
[02:05:16] <pfred1> wagner rips
[02:05:35] <pfred1> what's that one he does the one with the ship?
[02:05:38] <pfred1> ah
[02:06:03] <pfred1> wagner__flying_dutchman_overture.ogg
[02:06:05] <pfred1> that one!
[02:06:46] <les> I also did vertical tracking angle sudies and all that
[02:07:06] <les> wrote some stuff in the old Audio magazine
[02:07:10] <pfred1> glue a lot of pennies to the arms?
[02:07:14] <les> and stereo review
[02:07:47] <pfred1> the effect of schotch taping a penny to the end of your tonearm ...
[02:07:48] <les> ha no I could track 50 cm /sec at .1 gram in the lab
[02:08:20] <les> only in the lab though
[02:08:27] <pfred1> bout that time I was probably listening to the Deadboys myself
[02:08:37] <les> early 80's
[02:08:46] <pfred1> yup
[02:09:06] <pfred1> just about completely wore through my Young Loud and Snotty LP then
[02:09:25] <les> we got the first cd player in the US ...a prototype
[02:09:46] <pfred1> I'm pretty embarassed with CD i sort of pulled a Bill Gates on them
[02:09:47] <les> I got to take it home after twenty people above me used it
[02:09:52] <pfred1> I htought they were a fad
[02:10:11] <les> there were 4 cds in the world at that time
[02:10:30] <pfred1> yeah one guy i knew was buying them like mad I was still buying records
[02:10:45] <pfred1> the early players really sucked!
[02:10:57] <les> I bought a cd player for myself pretty early
[02:10:59] <pfred1> super low oversampling
[02:11:07] <les> 1983 I think
[02:11:14] <les> was expensive
[02:11:28] <les> no oversampling at all
[02:11:43] <les> analog anti alias filter
[02:11:50] <pfred1> CDs were and still are a total ripoff
[02:12:12] <les> well they cost nothing now to make
[02:12:19] <les> just royalties
[02:12:23] <pfred1> the artists get about that for every sale
[02:12:31] <les> back then they were a bit hard to make
[02:12:45] <les> but not for long
[02:13:10] <pfred1> I still don't think DVD has completely shaken out
[02:13:30] <les> well it has 48/96 capability
[02:13:40] <les> oops
[02:13:46] <les> 24/98
[02:13:48] <les> but
[02:13:58] <les> that is just marketing
[02:14:34] <les> johnson thermal noise does not permit 24 bit at room temperature
[02:14:49] <les> 22 is about it
[02:15:04] <les> and...
[02:15:12] <pfred1> DA converters sure have come a long ways
[02:15:19] <les> no stereo could do 22 anyway
[02:15:47] <les> usually in consumer stuff the last four bits or so are crap
[02:16:09] <les> not mine though
[02:16:14] <les> I paid a bit
[02:16:27] <pfred1> last year yard saling this woman had these boxes of speakers she told me "oh they're for the ceiling or something" if yo uwant them take them for free
[02:16:29] <les> burr brown 18 bit converters
[02:16:36] <pfred1> so I grab up the box
[02:16:47] <pfred1> take it home upwrap what's inside
[02:16:56] <pfred1> it's 2 pair of Boston Scoustic built ins
[02:17:02] <pfred1> Acoustic even
[02:17:06] <les> oh good deal
[02:17:08] <pfred1> I look them up on the net
[02:17:17] <pfred1> $900 worth of speakers!
[02:17:25] <Jymmm> I dont care for Boston Acoustics
[02:17:32] <pfred1> for free?
[02:17:37] <Jymmm> even for free
[02:17:45] <pfred1> well excuse the hell out of me
[02:17:51] <Jymmm> seem kinda 'flat'
[02:17:55] <pfred1> for free they simply cannot be beat I am sorry
[02:18:07] <les> I run 32 cu ft of T/s designed fourth order
[02:18:15] <pfred1> unless she'd have offered to have paid me to haul them away
[02:18:19] <les> Mccauley 15 bottom
[02:18:32] <Jymmm> pfred1 sell em and get soem Bose or JBL's instead =)
[02:18:35] <les> I designed the uper bass unit
[02:18:49] <les> altec horns mid
[02:18:57] <les> Audax domes high
[02:19:05] <pfred1> Jymmm nah I'll find a little old lady giving them away this season maybe
[02:19:10] <Jymmm> les what do you use to design the box?
[02:19:15] <les> I also have some ar 9's in another room
[02:20:02] <les> Jymmm: I used me. I was an audio design engineer
[02:20:21] <les> typical theile small parameters though
[02:20:25] <Jymmm> les what you sat down and did all the calculations by hand?
[02:20:35] <les> yeah.
[02:20:43] <Jymmm> you sick bastard!
[02:20:55] <Jymmm> s/sick/sadistic/
[02:21:03] <les> not at the time...there were no pc box programs
[02:21:13] <Jymmm> ah
[02:21:18] <pfred1> les are you the guy who has the website about the audio room?
[02:21:23] <les> now you just click the mouse a little
[02:21:37] <les> no not me
[02:21:40] <pfred1> heh
[02:21:42] <les> but I have one
[02:21:54] <pfred1> there's this one guy who essentially built a room that's one huge speaker
[02:22:04] <pfred1> absolutely nuts!
[02:22:15] <les> well that is just room gain
[02:22:30] <pfred1> yeah he was like well next time i do it I won't use 4 inch block
[02:22:48] <pfred1> racks and racks of amps
[02:22:59] <pfred1> I gotta find this loon
[02:23:06] <les> With 4Kw RMS in a 15x25 room I am about ther too I guess
[02:23:29] <les> so I am in the loon category too
[02:23:36] <pfred1> http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/index.html
[02:23:38] <les> but hey...
[02:23:45] <pfred1> what is that guy smoking?
[02:23:51] <les> I used to play guitar in a rock band
[02:23:58] <les> a poor one
[02:24:02] <pfred1> well then you should really appreciate that link
[02:24:29] <pfred1> this guy got a sound system crazier than Madison Square Garden in his house
[02:24:40] <les> conting the ar9s I have what...
[02:25:05] <les> 40 cubic feet of speakers in there
[02:25:11] <pfred1> here's les
http://www.scrounge.org/speak/burwen/controlroom.jpg
[02:25:16] <les> that is loon stuff
[02:25:33] <pfred1> he must be like mainlining LSD or something
[02:27:20] <les> really old but neat stuff
[02:27:34] <les> this is not new
[02:27:41] <les> let me look for a link
[02:27:43] <pfred1> it's people like that that i know we're all doomed
[02:28:36] <pfred1> yeah there's nothing any newer because he's probably a stain on the wall about now
[02:30:13] <pfred1> what's stupider than this is those car competitions
[02:30:23] <pfred1> where they like blast pink noise with their car stereos
[02:31:17] <les> let's go to the 1930's
[02:31:22] <les> look at this
[02:31:37] <les> those are 15" drivers in there
[02:31:46] <les> http://www.voiceofthetheatre.com/images/LF.horns.1.jpg
[02:31:52] <les> slow to load
[02:32:14] <pfred1> yeah you can't beat diameter for making the low tones
[02:32:26] <les> and those are little ones
[02:32:46] <les> what 10 feet high?
[02:32:54] <pfred1> they got like a 1930s internet connection :)
[02:33:04] <les> yeah for sure
[02:33:31] <pfred1> there is some really whacked audio stuff on the net I have seen
[02:33:48] <pfred1> but that one guy he's up there in the hall of fame for me
[02:33:56] <pfred1> with "the room"
[02:35:29] <pfred1> I'll be building some cabinets pretty soon for the other pair i got last year of those Boston Acoustics
[02:36:20] <les> well when I was 21 I saved my money and bought some altec lansing voice of the theaters
[02:36:24] <les> it was nuts
[02:36:32] <les> cost as much as a new car
[02:36:34] <pfred1> I'll bet
[02:36:40] <les> but
[02:36:51] <pfred1> one guy I knew he bought the PA off this other guy that had a metal band
[02:36:59] <les> our crummy rock band got some studio time
[02:37:03] <pfred1> 1200 watt head and 4 CV cabinets
[02:37:14] <les> and the playback was on voice of the theaters
[02:37:25] <les> I heard it and had to have em
[02:37:40] <pfred1> when we'd headbang you could literally hear it 3 blocks away!
[02:37:44] <les> see back then studio sound was quite good
[02:38:13] <les> but the stuff that got to the consumer sonded like pure shit
[02:38:23] <pfred1> hmmm
[02:38:26] <les> so I saved my money
[02:38:35] <pfred1> me i cut out the middleman i sound like pure shit right from the get go
[02:38:40] <LawrenceG> hey.. I still am running an old pair of voice of the theatres... each bass unit is about the size of a large washing machine and the cast Al horns sit on top...
[02:38:56] <les> hi lawrence
[02:39:01] <LawrenceG> I love em....
[02:39:05] <les> 811 or 511 horns?
[02:39:14] <pfred1> hey stanley
[02:39:17] <LawrenceG> let me check...
[02:39:18] <troff> hey paul
[02:39:33] <troff> what is les
[02:39:39] <troff> educate me
[02:39:40] <les> black + big =511
[02:39:50] <les> smaller+ blue=811
[02:40:05] <les> ?
[02:40:15] <les> what am I?
[02:40:24] <les> an engineer.
[02:40:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[02:40:52] <troff> hey les
[02:40:53] <les> heh
[02:41:01] <les> hi troff
[02:41:22] <pfred1> all the electronics nuts have arrived!
[02:41:27] <les> haha
[02:41:38] <LawrenceG> black and big... driver has 808-8a on it as a model number.... have a set of blue/green horns in the garage... one has a bad coild and the replacement was too pricey for me...
[02:41:57] <les> ah have both cool
[02:42:29] <les> you can now get new diaphragms I am happy to say
[02:42:44] <LawrenceG> the 15" bass drivers could use a replacement... they didnt like the last move.... they have to be from the 60's
[02:42:53] <les> the litz wire leads do go after a while
[02:43:08] <anonimasu> goodnight everyone
[02:43:13] <les> gnight
[02:43:14] <LawrenceG> I bought them from a guy for $800 as they would not fit in his living room!
[02:43:26] <LawrenceG> nite
[02:43:30] <les> the lf drivers can be reconed
[02:43:42] <les> Mine are on the second cone
[02:43:58] <les> and
[02:44:09] <les> redo the alnico 5 magnet too
[02:44:59] <LawrenceG> yes... I suspect the magnets are not what they could be.... I have neighbors now so I dont get to rattle the windows very often
[02:45:06] <les> they are quite good even today
[02:45:21] <les> 3" edge wound copper voice coils
[02:45:33] <LawrenceG> I like watching the top gun dvd with the volume cranked up
[02:45:50] <les> nearly 2 tesla fields
[02:46:02] <les> xmax about 10 mm
[02:46:22] <les> FS 23 Hz
[02:46:56] <les> VAS 20 ft ^3
[02:47:04] <les> good drivers
[02:47:18] <LawrenceG> I was wondering about trying some of the drivers they use to bounce cars down the road... they seem to be building a lot of big thumpers these days...
[02:47:45] <LawrenceG> What is a recone costing these days??
[02:47:50] <les> well I use huge mccauleys in the music room...
[02:48:08] <les> less than $100 for an altec
[02:48:38] <les> THE VOT used a high cutoff to get high efficiency
[02:49:00] <les> band limited pink noise 100-10k
[02:49:12] <les> 101 dba one wat one meter
[02:49:13] <les> ha
[02:49:34] <les> watt
[02:50:08] <LawrenceG> one of these days I will pull the backs off and see if these are the original drivers... Altecs seem to be supported here although when I was looking for new voice coils for the horns, they were over $200.
[02:50:14] <Jymmm> 101 dba - are you nuts?
[02:50:31] <les> with one watt Jymmm
[02:50:36] <LawrenceG> 27
[02:50:54] <Jymmm> les what, pushing rice paper?
[02:51:11] <SWPadnos> that's in the ballpark for good speakers
[02:51:23] <SWPadnos> I think mine are 100 or so
[02:51:33] <les> well old altec employees have started making original replacement stuff for them again
[02:51:45] <les> since they are classics
[02:51:50] <Jymmm> had some 18" JBL's once, didn't make a sound till 40 watts
[02:52:06] <les> and since AL/WE INVENTED the loudspeaker
[02:52:06] <pfred1> les what's your webpage again I can't find my bookmark
[02:52:14] <les> let me grt you a link
[02:52:21] <pfred1> thanks
[02:52:25] <les> lmwatts.com
[02:52:58] <les> http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/proloudspeakers/index.html
[02:53:31] <les> you know lawrence they are valuable collectors items now
[02:53:33] <pfred1> les woo a turkey call in the gallery now!
[02:53:41] <les> yeah
[02:53:55] <pfred1> it looks good man
[02:54:12] <les> VOT speakers worth a small fortune
[02:54:19] <les> ty pfred
[02:54:32] <pfred1> how many turkey calls is a small fortune? :)
[02:54:45] <les> ha
[02:55:10] <les> we did several thousand in jan and feb
[02:55:14] <pfred1> hey you got to record the call and when you click on the pic it plays it
[02:55:20] <pfred1> you gotta do it!
[02:55:27] <les> will start up next years production in a month or so
[02:55:36] <les> haha
[02:55:47] <pfred1> I'm serious it'd be too cool
[02:56:38] <les> well we are talking about some marketing stuff about acoustics comparing toa real turkey
[02:56:59] <les> It is a fourth order system just like a loudspeaker
[02:57:01] <pfred1> well put in a disclaimer that the real call sounds better than it over the internet
[02:57:02] <les> same math
[02:58:33] <LawrenceG> http://www.voiceofthetheatre.com/images/828H.1.jpg these look like the base units... mine may be clones as they are made of plywood not particle board.
[02:58:58] <les> originals were plywood
[03:00:16] <LawrenceG> http://alteclansingunofficial.nlenet.net/proloudspeakers/sectoralhorns/511B&811B-Data.pdf those are the horns..
[03:01:09] <LawrenceG> very cool, a treasure and the wife wants me to get rid of them.... they entered my life before she did, so I'm hoping they are safe!
[03:01:33] <les> very valuable lawrence
[03:01:40] <les> all wives hate em
[03:01:56] <les> believe me I know
[03:02:51] <les> really old music still sounds best on them...you know why?
[03:03:08] <LawrenceG> I build quite a few speakers, but I still like the VOT the best.... they make one feel the music instead of being blasted by it.
[03:03:08] <les> cause they were mixed on them in the studio!
[03:03:14] <les> can't beat that
[03:03:28] <les> up until mid '70s
[03:04:10] <gezr> my steak was insanly good
[03:04:16] <pfred1> yeah i have to build another amp
[03:04:24] <pfred1> * pfred1 likes to feel the music
[03:04:25] <les> I still mess with speaker a lot even though I have not done it for a living for a good while
[03:04:35] <LawrenceG> Les... I was looking at your sign page.... do you cnc the fancy edging? or is it hand carved?
[03:04:42] <les> still AES though
[03:05:00] <pfred1> gezr red meat is such a killer
[03:05:01] <les> the celtic spiral edging?
[03:05:18] <les> emc does that
[03:05:19] <gezr> pfred1 : it is?
[03:05:44] <pfred1> gezr probably kills more people than cigarettes
[03:05:54] <gezr> good then I have 2 legs up
[03:05:56] <troff_> troff_ is now known as troff
[03:06:46] <LawrenceG> yes, the edging looks good.... is that a script then gens the g code or ?
[03:06:54] <pfred1> gezr the way the world is going can'tsay as i blame you
[03:07:06] <les> the celtic spiral design was drown by me in autocad 2000, converted to 3-d vcarving bt artcam, and carved by emc.
[03:07:12] <gezr> pfred1 : I dont fear dying or being dead
[03:07:38] <pfred1> gezr way i see it is the rewards have to be someplace and I sure haven't found them in this lifetime myself
[03:07:47] <les> I can send you some celtic spiral gcode file if you would like to try them
[03:07:54] <les> 90 degree v cutter
[03:08:04] <les> not scaleable though
[03:08:08] <LawrenceG> cool.... wonder if cp1 could be set up to generate that edging.....
[03:08:13] <les> well not easily
[03:08:40] <LawrenceG> would love some.... am building a toy box for the dog, so anything to fancy up the box would be fun to try.
[03:08:41] <les> just so it's 3axis
[03:08:52] <les> what size?
[03:09:53] <LawrenceG> a stip about 12" long would be enough or a rectangle 5"x9" outside
[03:09:57] <LawrenceG> strip
[03:10:23] <les> let me make a note...I will find the nearest template
[03:10:33] <les> this is gcode at 120 ipm
[03:10:39] <les> can you do that?
[03:10:44] <LawrenceG> email ve7it@shaw.ca
[03:11:07] <les> writing it down...
[03:11:11] <LawrenceG> the poor shoptask would jump off the bench!.... I can look for feedrates and mod with an editor
[03:11:25] <pfred1> les news flash computers are good for data storage!
[03:11:59] <LawrenceG> yep... I have so much stuff stored on the cpu, I cant find it.... looking at google for home box!
[03:12:01] <pfred1> LawrenceG bolt it down
[03:12:17] <pfred1> man i tried to run a search engine on my system once
[03:12:23] <pfred1> lets just say i had to hard reset it
[03:12:36] <LawrenceG> must have been windows!
[03:12:40] <pfred1> they suck up a lot of CPU!
[03:12:44] <pfred1> nope was Linux
[03:13:00] <pfred1> that thing had the whole box frozen solid
[03:13:15] <les> ok got the email and 5x9 rectangle
[03:13:26] <les> will check in the morning ok?
[03:13:33] <LawrenceG> not enough ram.... probably swapped to death
[03:13:40] <pfred1> maybe
[03:13:42] <les> post-it note on screen
[03:13:45] <pfred1> total used free shared buffers cached
[03:13:45] <pfred1> Mem: 903428 894224 9204 0 126996 461952
[03:13:45] <pfred1> -/+ buffers/cache: 305276 598152
[03:13:45] <pfred1> Swap: 1052248 6160 1046088
[03:13:48] <gezr> linux doesnt do that much anymore
[03:13:55] <LawrenceG> thanks les.... will be fun to try
[03:14:12] <gezr> kernel traps with oom and destroys processes till things clear
[03:14:15] <pfred1> Linux does like it's RAM
[03:14:24] <les> was a lot of work to draw in autocad heheh...enjoy
[03:14:38] <les> back to music room for me
[03:14:45] <les> gnight all
[03:14:47] <gezr> pfred1 : most of it is free, 305m worth
[03:15:12] <LawrenceG> I have seen some of the celtic scroll some of the fellows are doing a jewellery... would be fun to do on signs...
[03:15:16] <pfred1> gezr yeah it's cache makes stuff like mozilla pop up faster :)
[03:15:31] <LawrenceG> g'nite les
[03:15:37] <gezr> les take it easy
[03:15:41] <pfred1> really there's only 9 MB free
[03:16:04] <pfred1> next system I'll crack the 2 GB barrier here
[03:16:14] <gezr> there is a kernel doc reguarding whats free and not free
[03:16:56] <troff> that be mine
[03:17:00] <gezr> question is why is swap being used
[03:17:37] <pfred1> I find that no matter how much RAM you have Linux expects a swap and uses it too I guess you could setup a RAMdisk
[03:17:52] <LawrenceG> I managed to get emc running on the 128mb laptop, but it would like a litle more... The disk is very slow (2.7mb/s on hdparm test) and doesnt support dma
[03:18:12] <pfred1> yeah 128 is a bit low today
[03:19:05] <LawrenceG> have another 64mb at the post office for pickup.... that should help... it will max out the laptop
[03:19:36] <LawrenceG> it only supports upto 192mb
[03:26:16] <LawrenceG> anyone know of any gcode generating scripts besides cp1?
[03:26:29] <LawrenceG> and Jons c routines?
[03:41:12] <gezr> your brain
[03:41:22] <asdfqwega> No, YOUR brain
[03:41:38] <gezr> your not brian, your asdfqwega
[03:41:39] <asdfqwega> * asdfqwega loves leaping into middle of conversation
[03:41:49] <gezr> I do as well, its accidential
[03:42:03] <gezr> oh look they have stopped, its my turn
[03:42:27] <gezr> oh man, they didnt stop
[03:44:01] <asdfqwega> Another round on the merry-go-'round?
[03:48:28] <gezr> I dont know
[03:48:36] <gezr> sg1 was good
[03:48:40] <gezr> atlantis was good
[03:48:49] <gezr> bsg just isnt sitting well with me anymore
[03:49:27] <pfred1> heh
[03:49:32] <gezr> I was really looking forward to some g-code questions
[03:49:37] <pfred1> yeah I don't think BSG is going anyplace
[03:50:29] <gezr> im going to bed I guess, yall have fun
[03:50:58] <LawrenceG> g'nite
[03:51:43] <pfred1> nite
[03:52:09] <gezr> LawrenceG : hey, you should be able to generate some pretty good gcode by hand, if your not used to gcode at all, you will quickly get a handle on things, and once you find a generator, youll more redaly understand its outputs
[03:53:10] <gezr> complex surfaces can even be done by hand, it just takes a long time to get all the lines in
[03:53:19] <LawrenceG> yep... been playing here.... I wrote some of the components in the cp1 generator....
[03:53:29] <pfred1> you can do anything with a hammer and a chisel it just may take a while
[03:53:30] <gezr> oh sweet
[03:54:02] <LawrenceG> I like computerised chisels
[03:54:26] <pfred1> computers are just the latest chisel
[03:54:29] <gezr> LawrenceG : how complex a profile are you wanting to generate?
[03:54:35] <pfred1> but they're not really a replacement for a real chisel
[03:55:35] <LawrenceG> one project I keep tossing over is for sign work, so that raised letter signs can be generated that look like they have been hand done using a scoup chisel...
[03:56:10] <LawrenceG> a bull nose end mill would have to do a lot of bouncing around!
[03:56:49] <gezr> if you could gain control of the C axis and had really fine gcode control, you wouldnt need but to mount the chisel in the spindle
[03:57:13] <gezr> well, that would still need the 5th axis I guess hmm
[03:57:20] <Jymmm> yeah just mount a phumatic hammer to the c-axis =)
[03:57:28] <LawrenceG> i like that idea
[03:57:52] <LawrenceG> give me granite and I'll give you dust!
[03:58:03] <gezr> yeah the stroking would help break up the material
[03:58:05] <pfred1> I love my pneumatic hammers
[03:58:08] <Jymmm> LawrenceG Eh, I got parrots that do that!
[03:58:12] <asdfqwega> That doesn't sound like a fair trade :p
[03:58:36] <pfred1> once i was popping a panel off a car with one and this guy I know said "it's not a finesse tool you know ..."
[03:58:41] <pfred1> then i finished the job
[03:59:29] <asdfqwega> Anything can be a finesse tool - it's all in the wrist
[04:00:22] <pfred1> many a spray paint job was ruined with that thought
[04:00:32] <LawrenceG> I used to design scanners in the sawmills... would like to build a portable one that could be used to scan some of the carved drawer fronts on desks etc...
[04:00:45] <pfred1> anyone who's spraying your car and says it's all in your wrist run don't walk away!
[04:01:28] <pfred1> LawrenceG I saw a webpage where guys had build laser diffraction? scanners
[04:01:32] <pfred1> diffusion?
[04:01:35] <pfred1> something
[04:02:20] <pfred1> they'd make these cloud point projection maps
[04:02:32] <LawrenceG> there are some neat 3d scanners... with thecurrent digital cameras used as a detector and cheap lazer line generators, it is possible to build very cheap 3d scanners
[04:03:04] <LawrenceG> The time is in the software and finding a paying use for it!
[04:03:48] <pfred1> jimi hendrix didn't become a legend doing whatever made money
[04:03:49] <LawrenceG> There are some many highly protected patents in the laser scaniing business, its very hard to do something in that field.
[04:04:14] <LawrenceG> I've already been sued once... what a waste of time.
[04:04:37] <pfred1> you tried to market the item?
[04:04:49] <gezr> a v8 powered chainsaw, driven by a multi axis robot at a lumberjack exposition, you think someone would be pissed?(im off to bed now)
[04:04:54] <LawrenceG> just wait until the software patents in Europe start kicking in...
[04:05:13] <pfred1> yeah russia going to be hell of a hosting place
[04:05:32] <pfred1> or tobago or someplace
[04:06:25] <pfred1> meanwhile china is eating our lunch for us
[04:06:43] <LawrenceG> could be a new idea for starting a new country.... IP free zone... open source is the rule! SOrt of like the tax free countries...
[04:07:03] <asdfqwega> I think you'd have to start a space colony for that
[04:07:08] <pfred1> sort of like somehting out of a william gibson story ...
[04:07:31] <LawrenceG> well, the new world may not be here...
[04:07:42] <asdfqwega> Space colony <- added bonus: stupid people don't survive long
[04:07:53] <pfred1> nah someone just has to start shooting these parasitic politicians
[04:08:32] <pfred1> show them that we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore!
[04:08:36] <LawrenceG> hey... if we could get the controls contract for the US star wars system, we could carve 3d mountains for fun!
[04:08:39] <asdfqwega> pfred1: Better start stockpiling ammunition, or you'll run out after a couple hours
[04:09:04] <pfred1> asdfqwega they're such cowards I'd hope that just a few as an example would get the message out
[04:10:01] <asdfqwega> The only problem with "The Court of Last Resort" is that bullets can fly both ways
[04:10:06] <pfred1> western culture does seem to be on a suicide course anymore
[04:10:38] <asdfqwega> Euro culture is definately on a slippery slope, though
[04:10:52] <pfred1> european is western culture
[04:11:16] <asdfqwega> No, they're east of me - I'm in western culture
[04:12:05] <asdfqwega> heh, misread that
[04:13:13] <pfred1> and this isn't the forum where I'll voice my beliefs on this matter anymore :)
[04:13:43] <pfred1> technology I use as an escape from my precieved reality
[04:15:23] <LawrenceG> lots of toys to play with is the way to go.
[04:17:38] <asdfqwega> for me, tools = toys
[04:18:13] <pfred1> the craftsman that is doing without a tool that they need is already paying for it!
[04:18:30] <asdfqwega> What better toy could there be, than one that allows you to change the world around you?
[04:19:17] <pfred1> what'd Einstein say? imagination is more important than knowledge
[04:19:28] <asdfqwega> Hammers, welders and lasers for me, thanks
[04:19:52] <pfred1> getting all my tools in one place is my goal
[04:20:28] <pfred1> I got some tools that have never even seen my other tools!
[04:20:45] <LawrenceG> uummm virgins
[04:21:00] <pfred1> nah htey seen some of the sinking circus
[04:21:09] <pfred1> but not the whole show under one big top
[04:22:09] <pfred1> I'm in the process of moving
[04:28:35] <LawrenceG> 3d versions of stuff like this would be interesting....
http://spicetreegraphics.biz/Illustrations/Holidays/StPatricks/LargeThumbs/Celtic1Thumb.jpg
[04:29:48] <LawrenceG> the interesting part is how to emboss or make it 3d in a an interesting way that can be cut on a cnc
[04:30:32] <LawrenceG> A more general case is in sign making and doing raised letters from true type fonts
[04:34:08] <pfred1> I seen software that takes pictures and makes what a DXF file out of it?
[04:34:24] <pfred1> and there's DXF to G code converters out there
[04:43:12] <asdfqwega> pred1: The problem is not the 2D conversions - that's relatively easy. The problem is making a 3D conversion.
[04:43:58] <asdfqwega> Especially with something like a celtic knot, where some parts are supposed to look like they go over-under
[04:45:12] <asdfqwega> I should ask a diemaker about that someday
[04:45:19] <LawrenceG> yes... the layering is the magic...
[04:46:08] <asdfqwega> The 'olden' days, you had to work pretty much directly with the die material (steel)
[04:46:41] <pfred1> asdfqwega walk through 4 feet of snow uphill both ways?
